T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'is there any way to become more sober more sooner?'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'stomach pump'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'redryn, that wont help.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'try it'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'apparently a slap in the face works according to mythbusters'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'hmmn.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'okay, im all for slapping faces.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Drink a SHITLOAD of water - it increases total blood alcohol volume, and can help you beat a police test'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Be near a bathromm'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'room*'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'oh i don't care re: total volume.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i just would like to be more sober so i can remember if jaenelle is loquacious whats her face or not.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i wasnt sure if exercise or something might help metabolites break down teh alcohol faster'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'your name is really familiar and i dont know why'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'maybe you dreamt about me.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'or maybe you spoke with me at length about shopping in kensington market'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): (Friend) VampireDude shrugs helplessly.
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Except you don't break down alcohol, your liver filters it into your kidneys and you piss it out'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'alcohol passes the brain blood barrier too though right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'yes'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and certain scavenger enzymes break it down in the lymph'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'additionally, when you piss it out, it is usually already broken down as well'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i was under the impression that having too much alcohol would lead to an excess of sugars in the bladder'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but that given time without evacuating the bladder, that it would be recirculated to the kidneys and processed back into the blood if hydration, sulfates/sulfides or so on permitted'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but at the moment, i am perhaps a little bit ossified, so i can't be sure.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'are you trying to teach us something'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'no. i m trying to figure out if there's anything i can do to speed up the whole figuring out if jaenelle is that loquacious person or not'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i think she was yes'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and it sounds like short of imbibing a lot of oxygen or otherwise reducing the amount of nitrates in my system i dont have much chance =/ so maybe i will go sleep it off'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'havoks oh, ok.'
T3/r5/2012-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): (Friend) VampireDude is still tempted to go sleep it off.
T3/r5/2012-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amidoinit Ryke: 'SOPA.'
T3/r5/2012-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amidoinit Ryke: 'Discuss.'
T3/r5/2012-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'iran?'
T3/r5/2012-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A $63 billion, 10-year U.S. arms package for Saudi Arabia, which includes helicopters, missiles, precision-guided munitions and tanks, was unveiled in 2007 and is now kicking in.  Add the $60 billion for the 83 advanced fighters, and we sold over $120 billion of weapons to saudi arabia.'
T3/r5/2012-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'iowa caucuses today, huh...'
T3/r5/2012-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'anyone keeping track?'
T3/r5/2012-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [2012] Wars: 'Who will win the Iowa Caucus?'
T3/r5/2012-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'Obama2012!'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"El cielo es azul"...azul is an adjective.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'of course unambiguously. I just did it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Fiendish agrees with your wife.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Tlaloc: tell your wife that I know significant depth of both, and semiotics is not sociology'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i have known your wife!'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'biblically'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn crosses his arms and nods slowly and sagely.
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well "es azul" and "esta azul" have nothing to do with semiontics, it has to do with the fact that ser and estar are 2 different verbs. The problem with English is that those to verbs are rendered as one.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'and that's the only problem with english'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'semiotics*'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'if you say so, Sotura :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tlaloc: 'game is starting, sorry, but she disagrees, so if you want to argue that with her, I'll send you a tell with her name on here. Oh, and if anyone can log this for me, I'd be damn interested to read it later. Anyone willing?'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'just know that no one uses max to refer to over/abso/true/whatever max'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'mis'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, i didn't want to get into a whole thing'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Anaristos: the difference has a whole hell of a lot to do with semiotics'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Wehther you use "ez azul" or "esta azul". azul is an adjective in both cases.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Leinei: not really'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Sure it is'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'both the strength and weakness with English lie in the loose structure of the language. The looseness allows compact communication, but that communication is subject to great ambiguity.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'that's what she said'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: '"es" implies "_the_sky_ has the same symbolist essence as _blue_", which is an unambiguous even in english (though wrong in most cases) sentence'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I disagree.  Ser can be used to denote a intrinsic quality of something.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that is correct, Fiendish. More precisely, "es azul" says that blue is a property of sky. While "esta azul" simply says that, at the moment, the sky is blue.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Anaristos is arguing the very foundation of semiotics here. (you shouldn't say otherwise)'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'run away, the barterers are coming!'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If I say "Sally is quiet" (a quiet person) and "Sally is quiet" (not speaking at this time), they're both adjectives'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'the difference between english and spanish is that in english we would more concretely use relevant words to indicate that we're making a comparison between mirrored symbols (in the semiotic sense). In fact, anyone discussing this in spanish probably would too.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'For the first, I'd use ser, for the second, I'd use estar'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'for instance, "es muerto" and "esta muerto", very subtle meaning. Both say that "he is dead", but one is a property of the person while the other is a state. In fact, "es muerto" implies that he was killed (by someone).'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But they're both adjectives'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'no, "es muerto" is rather ambiguous, I am afraid. "muerto" can both be a noun or a past particple of the verb to die (morir)'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'muerto is not a noun.  ever'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Well, maybe not ever ever.  But not in that casse'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'case*'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'granted using it as a past participle is rather unusual.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Leinei: this might be of use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotic_elements_and_classes_of_signs_%28Peirce%29'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Wow, a debate where I have no opinion what so ever :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'morir, morido, muerto just as you have work, worked, wrought'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: '(though I always found Peirce to be kind of dense to read)'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Well, muerto can be a noun, since it can mean a dead person.  So you could say "Bob es un muerto"'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'In which case, it's be a noun'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But "Bob es muerto" is an adjective'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'maybe this is better https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_%28semiotics%29#Triadic_signs'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'what English needs are markers to indicate what the function of the word is, but if they are added, it loses the flexibility which makes it so popular.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'english really doesn't have any problems in this regard'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'people who opt to use words with precision don't have to worry so much about the other person knowing how to properly interpret them'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'the distinction between "es" and "esta" is one that relies on the listener to interpret correctly'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, looks like bob's dead'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'whereas you could easily add extra words to be more explicit'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'bob's fucking dead?'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the only reason that English doesn't have as many problems as it should is because, under normal circumstances, the context is assumed to be obvious. But the issuer of the sentence can keep the context private and there is no way to tell what it is because there are so many.'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, parse this: "a pretty little girls school."'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, parse this: "a pretty little girls" school."'
T3/r5/2012-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it's girls''
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Well, Rick Santorum had a good 24 hours.  But the first google result for "Santorum" is back again to something not about Rick Santorum.'
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'He was on top of the results for a day or two...'
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'lol, Al Gore is for Internet Piracy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zox: 'nice'
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'make it 14-6'
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'mis, sorry'
T3/r5/2012-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Dogs against Romney?'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'transfers - legality? (from q/a)'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'i call the notion: there is no point in debating!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'second'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kotty Piip Dashiell: 'Nobody should be able to transfer anything to anyone, because someone's alt might benefit.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'btw, yes to what Domain?'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I believe it was to his rhetorical q'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if someone loads a newbie alt, I think it's perfectly fine as long as it's something that they would reasonably do for any random (nice) newbie'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'What if the tp I give to my friend's alt ends up eventually circulating around and I win it in a trivia on gametalk!?!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if not, it's a bit grey...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Ye gads, I have broken the policies!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Like I said, the time lapse just needs to be reasonable for it to work :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'there is a(n old) rule in some muds that uber-equipping newr players is somewhat illegal -- no doubt to prevent friends uber-equiping each other's alts'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it depends on the time lapse... if it is long enough to make the present value low enough as a reasonable discount rate...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some players are very patient '
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'There is an old rule that says that you should not quote what happens in other MUDs because people don't give a damn.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'MAybe it's not that old :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i have another rule: most things xyliz says are just plain wrong'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I am suddenly struck by how this theoretical aardcorruption is similar to how certain companies defer taxes/profits and push them around for years to avoid paying out...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Because players are now companies.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Players are companies. Discuss.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'companies are people!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'There is no aardcorruption tbh, Xyliz is just being itself again :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Aardwolfians United vs State of Godot'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, theoretical aardcorruption'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anyone pushing the grey area enough to try an alt transfer will do something else which gets them nuked...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'If it's not in practice it's inherently pointless :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'It's pretty much common sense, really..'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I bet that's what the US founding fathers said when they drafted the constitution!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeisterP: 'I always wanted to transfer points from my old char to my new but its illegal'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'There isn't even an Aardwolfian Constitution :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'The policies can be changed without passing bills, what does this tell you :D'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Aard is a dictatorship?'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'authoritarian dictatorship'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And I for one welcome out new Lasherian overlords.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeisterP: 'oh, new version of mushclient does not capture my own chat in the communication log'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Pretty much all MMOs are :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'our*'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'institutions! We need to have a constitutional monarchy! To arms!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi implodes!!!  Only a grease spot remains where he once stood.
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so much for the revolution'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Should probably appreciate our "rulers" because they're the only ones who want to put up with listening to all this discontent. (Much of which is stirred up from nothingness by Xyliz :P)'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I don't know about 'want'...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz is not discontent with multiplaying 
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'if i could i'd instantly fakechan xyliz and kojiro'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'K Xyliz, tell us what you're discontent with!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Prosecutor Godot turns debate channel off.
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it's good to discuss legality sometimes, I think'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'before coming to Aardwolf, i played on a multiplaying mud (where bots were permitted).'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'make the lines sharper and all that. Interesting exercise.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'good for you'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Really depends on who is heralding the discussions'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Prosecutor Godot: 'Some are meaningful and some are whiningful.'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz does not object to bots either.  (there was Xyliz note on some forum outlining cautions to be taken if bots were ever to be "legal", to protect the mud from financial ruin)
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'how thoughtful of you'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if there're bots, I'm all in favour of allowing them... on a separate mud'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I like to imagine Lasher hovering over the enter key with 'nuke xyliz confirm' in his command prompt over that note...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'botmud!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'btw, where's necroshine? or rather who is he now?'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'so Vakieh likes those muds where the owners regularly pwipe players voicing differing opinions'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nah, we just dislike you'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I have issues with someone who routinely trolls newbies in a detrimental rather than humourous fashion'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'got to love xyliz giving advice on remorting, tiering and building ones char'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Xyliz convincing newbies not to buy auras at level 1 makes me rather annoyed'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are... different types of people in every community... part of a newbie's "job" is to figure out who's useful and who's crazy...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'there was a #1 mud on TMC a few years ago, until the owners and admin started pwiping the accounts of players voicing differing opinions -- that mud dropped to around #21 '
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, if people were generally good at that, the US government wouldn't suck so much'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Benjanmin Franklyn, the satyr, said: "Your critics are your friends, they point out your mistakes."'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'only if you learn from them'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'd like to point out that ben had like 25 types of syphilis '
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not to mention goat hooves'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only if they actually point out your mistakes'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz takes Vakieh to task on: [10 Jan 08:55:55] (Debate) Vakieh: 'Xyliz convincing newbies not to buy auras at level 1 makes me rather annoyed' <-- where did Xyliz (of the "new players, qsit at level 1 until a full level 1 aard armor set is obtained" advice) state that lie inferred by Vakieh
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I don't log, but you have on more than one occasion told newbies to not worry about auras, as they were less than optimal purchases'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i would prioritize breastplate over aura actually'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'nope, that was somebody else'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You been sharing your char Xyliz?'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'nope, Xyliz never shares equipent or characters'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz is a qsitter -- you do not like qsitters: suck a lemon, (get some vitamin C and bioflavenoids in the process)  -- xchan
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'because of Crynn, Xyliz is a trains-sitter, or when no double, a channel-sitter'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You trying for Crynn? good luck with that...'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'avoiding quests because of Crynn'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Or you could...you know...remort?'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Then you could qsit all OVER again'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz , upon remoret, be cp-leveling at low levels, then speedleveling to SH and remort
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz yet requires to complete several goals: Xylmos (or buy an inexpensive Xylmos portal),  Adaldar (maybe, to get that portal), Omentor (maybe, maybe not, to get that last room), Empyrean (to fully explore the area), Dunoir (to reach that last room)
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'and may as take the SH opportunity to fully explore the Upper planes safely (as an SH)'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Meh - go explore 9hells - Only took me 1 death'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'lots of things to do as a T0 SC SH'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Nine Hells is no danger, very safe there'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz stating "Nine Hells is no danger, very safe there" is not a suggestion to up the danger level there
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'explore inferno!'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"explore inferno!" as a suggestion to a T0 SC SH -- some of you guys are sick (unless that was a joke, you were joking, right)'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't see why not'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'pretty sure it's possible'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I am hoping to do so in a mort, give or take a few levels and a thou or so pups'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz gets angry when the "Times Killed" counter is forced to increase by quests and campaigns to (expletive deleted) areas
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'you many notice a change is the personality of Xyliz on those days'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'may'
T3/r5/2012-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'got to love another rescue of Iranians'
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shortboat Vega: 'Jar Jar Binks is the best thing to ever happen to the Star Wars franchise.'
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dirkdiggler falls to the ground and rolls around, laughing hysterically.
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'qsitting .. '
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a playdate'
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'consider the meaning of semantics'
T3/r5/2012-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'that shut the bots up'
T3/r5/2012-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/6979611/Human-civilisation-will-collapse-unless-greed-culture-is-stopped-report-warns.html'
T3/r5/2012-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'in other news, water remains wet'
T3/r5/2012-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'awesome, a commission on civil rights in Ohio voted to uphold racism.'
T3/r5/2012-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'kkk trying to justify themselves on NGC'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bluebelll: 'hi everyone'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I disagree.'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bluebelll: 'iI agree lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'i disagree with both sides'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bluebelll: 'hi everyone'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amidoinit Ryke: 'Debate -h goes back five days. Apparently we're all getting along!'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I disagree with the gentleman from across the aisle.'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'which would be a more action packed european holiday - transnistria or dagestan?'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'i watched documentaries from aljazeera and bbc on both, and i must say they have some deadly perks'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'trans sounds a lot newer and more unstable.  Where's it located?'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'just east of moldova'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'supposedly on the documentary it's ran by an ex kgb agent and has the most wanted criminal in europe housed there, but the international community doesn't pay attention to it'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'that's one thing that always makes me more skeptic about the past - how russia has caused probably every single war in the world since world war 2, but germany had them defeated until america came and saved them'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'in north korea documentary you can go for a tour in the museum there where gifts from the russian government are on display, they practice alot of russian politics there apparently'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'worshipping the stalin as god kind of thing'
T3/r5/2012-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'before WW2, the Japanese beat the shit out of them as well before we interfered.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'is urinating on corpses okay?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ask the corpses'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i wld...but they're dead'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'then they probably don't care'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'no honor in it though'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'no, but then these days you can't buy a cup of coffee with honor.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'issue is...a few ignorant immature peeps destroyed the 'honor' of our military'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'assuming of course that they are an aberration...'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: '...and gave the enemy fuel'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'agreed...re guilt/autheticity '
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'butchered that'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'as opposed to a government that sells weapons to both sides'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'honor is how you act'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it would be naive that to think that things like this don't happen all the time and haven't happened often throughout history, but like sex-crazed senators, it only matters if you get caught.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'not what the government does'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'things like this have happened'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'honor has killed millions of people. hasn't saved a single one'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: '...but that's the shame'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'a few peeps representing the whole'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you are assuming facts not in evidence.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'the video is fact'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you are assuming that those on the video represent a minority.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i'd hope they do'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'otherwise, we're no better than the enemy'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'keep in mind that these are the same armed forces that ran Iraqui jails.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'there is no justification'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'we may be no better than the enemy. but we certainly are no worse'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'we're better than that'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there was no justification when what they were doing to prisoners came to light, either.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'or i thought we were'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'so....because they perform certain acts....that makes it ok for us?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and if half of the stories coming out of Viet Nam are true, it was worse there.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'mai lai comes to mind'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'all they did was dishonor our servicemen and provide fuel for the enemy'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'among others'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'there is no honor in killing people.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'there's no debate about that'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the enemy doesn't need any fuel :) They are being invaded. That's fuel enough.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'bs'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'then you cannot dishonor those who are paid to kill for a living'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so you don't think that foreign troops on your soil is enough fuel?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'just like you were enrage about them dragging corpses through the street, so are they enraged by this action'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'you just provide them with fuel for the recruitment of others'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they probably do the same thing'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'doesn't mean we shld stoop to their level'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'you should read some history on acts commited during wartime'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'or that they should stoop to ours :>'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i have'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'doesn't matter'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'it's illegal right here in the USA to desecrate a corpse'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'and?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'frankly, desecration of corpses is a lot lower on the list of triggers for me than, let's say, rape.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, the laws of the US do not apply to Afghanistan, yet. They have to conquer the land first :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'last person to conquer that place was the legendary Alexander'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'bottom line, the act was deplorable, but not actually unusual. What was unusual is that they got caught.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it's akin to police brutality, people act with shock when they witness it as if it didn't go on all the time.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'agreed...i don't understand....if they're dead, they're dead'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'you condone the actions that they perform...and yet this is ok'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'people who are under constant mortal stress act differently than you or I would.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'soab'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'codemn'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'there's no excuse you can present that's valid'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'facts of life are not excuses.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'facts?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: '*sigh*'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that what happens is happens often enough is a fact. Again, you are only shocked because in your placid world things like that don't happen.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'justify it any way you want, it's still wrong'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'we're suppose to be an example to the world'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'and hat would you have us do? cry for awhile?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'hy should we be an example to the world'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'why*'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'not my call...'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i didn't ask to be'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'and we are not, by the way'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'if only i had that power'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'regardless, shall we stoop to their level?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'after iraq we are not much of an example to any country in the world'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'where's the honor?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'there never was any honor'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'apparently not'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'don't get me wrong'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's propaganda. Humans are humans no matter where they are born, and as humans, they will tend to do the same things. It is hardly believable that a nation at war over a questionable agenda would claim to operate on a higher plane.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i support my troops 100% regardless of my opinions of the conflict'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'then you are a fool'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'these 4(5) do not represent the whole'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'but yet...no one remembers the good'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'it's always the 'bad meal' we had there last'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'the good in torturing at gitmo?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'what honor is there in invading a country over a fantasy?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'That's not my call...'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'talk about an excuse'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i'm calling out the urinaters'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oh, now you back away from your responsibility, that's less than honorable.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'shall the whole military be judged on their actions?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'they are a military. that is what they do'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'regardless, they'll be punished'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's something that has nothing to do with the military, if they are judged over this incident, you can scratch it as a case of bigotry, which is what it would be :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'in a msg to both our servicemen and the rest of the world that such actions aren't to be tolerated, regardless of the enemy'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'we're better than that'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'no we arent'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'waterboarding comes to mind'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'wldn't seem so recently'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'people who join a group in order to kill can hardly be considered uber sensitive to certain criticism.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'not worried about them'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'they follow orders'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: ''cept pissing on people'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'what do you think you do in a military? you kill everything you see'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there is a big difference to run to the trenches to defend your country and running to the trenches to amass dollars for the corporate sponsors.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'if you are ordered to piss on people, guess what you get to do?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'killing everyone has nothing to do with urinating on corpses'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'there's no common sense anymore'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, I bet the corpses would have rather been urinated on while alive and then let go.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'we've just inflamed the enemy and gave them more fuel for recruitment'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'you would rather kill someone than pee on a corpse?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'no common sense'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'never was any common sense'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, if someone urinates on me they might as well kill me because one of use is going to end up dead :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'no doubt anaristos'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'same'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'different when they're already dead though'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but if I died first, I will hardly be in a position to care whether I get a state funeral or am pushed to the curb.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'different for people who believe there's something more after death'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'i am curious why you are bothered by peeing on a corpse more than innocent people dying'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'bottom line...we're suppose to be better than the enemy'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'think about the people who were completely obliterated in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I mean, they were converted to molecules, as if they never had existed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'each side kills to defend a cause they believe in'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'justify it anyway you want...'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'i think i am missing something here'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'it's still wrong'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, that's a tough one, Kirua. There are some believers, but I can't accept that in fabricated wars some of the cadre doesn't contemplate what is actually going on.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'so killing someone may be somewhat justified by the fact that you were just trying to protect something dear to you'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, what is dear to the US in Afghanistan?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the US is the invader.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'no honor if you urinate on a corpse'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'beats me'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'an oil pipeline is pretty dear'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'can't deny that'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'but honor is the keyword'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: 'does your cause support you doing that to an enemy's corpse?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'shld we do the same as the enemy?  I thought we were a world leader.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'more like, world conqueror'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'what you have to understand is that as crass as the act was, it was meaningless.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'it was not meaningless to the enemy'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'again I say, ask the corpses.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'was it meaningless to us when our peeps were beheaded or dragged through the streets?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'Are you really arguing that defaming corpses is a meaningless act?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'should be meaningless? maybe. But it was a fucking stupid thing to get caught doing as it'll incense people even more. And yes, you seem to be arguing that it shouldn't -- but it WILL.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they seem to be the least cared about objects of the whole thing. Everyone is concerned with how they feel about it, no one wonders how the corpses feel about it. After all they are the ones that got wet.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'of all the atrocities committed during war, i say peeing on a corpse is not high on my list'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'absolutely not'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and war, no matter why it is fought, is an atrocity of the first order.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'No, it's not. And yet it was still a fucking stupid thing to do. '
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'we're better than them'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'no one disagrees with that :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'at least i thought so'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'hy are we better?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'really? How do you know that, Cidus?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'Cidus: Really?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Who decreed that we are better?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'cause the rest of our forces don't urinate on corpses'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'yeah. debate why we are better'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'dear god...it's a corpse'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'they just gun down unarmed civilians'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'piss on a corpse here in america'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'which is on its way to re-enter the eco-cycle'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you're arguing in circles, cidus :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'and torture'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'see how that works'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'again, and i expect...justify it any way you want....'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'why are you surprised people pee on corpses?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i'm not surprised per se'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'people pee on graves on the US all the time'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'i'm surprised our service members stoop to their level'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'why are you surprised?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'have you been living under a rock?!'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'every few months some new story about an atrocity comitted by the armed forces comes out'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'shame...a few ignorant people committed this act...and yet the world will view it as the US military'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'you seem real broken up over peeing on corpses. not to broken up over rape and torture'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'done...ignorance can't always be corrected'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'my mind is blown that anyone can still think the US has moral superiority'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'yep...esp after this latest incident'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'but not after waterboarding?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'apparently we've stooped to their level'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'Shrug. What about the torturing, and black bagging, and CIA assassinating?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cidus: 'so we're just as good/bad as them?'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'Testing mind control drugs on mental patients'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'etcetc'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'You're worse, imo.'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'worse'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I really enjoyed, and it was super fast paced'
T3/r5/2012-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'mis'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'One of the most pressing concerns for the US navy is the threat posed by a "carrier killer" anti-ship missile with enhanced targeting capabilities facilitated from space. China very recently launched its own Beidou Positioning System, challenging the monopoly of the US Global Positioning System (GPS). http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16588557 I wonder what's gonna come of this one'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'maybe they're just all playing gladiators arena'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'just crooked people playing with crooked people with normal people's lives like usual, it'll probably never change :-o'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stands to reason China would want their own GPS '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'yeah, america has one why couldn't they?  i'm not saying they shouldn't'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'what always bothers me about governments though, is they get people they oppress into trouble with others'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'you're from there, you're them, i don't like governments for that reason'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'it is how they got to be where they are , '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'what i think is interesting is how china wanted it's people it be smarter and do more for themself, and then other countries let china do things for them and lost those abilities'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'for the most part, things used to be done alot more independently from corporations and stuff'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo is part of the disconnect between business and government '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'i see corporations as trying to be governments'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the power of the $ continually erodes gov power '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'yeah, that makes me sick what people give up for money, which is a figment of their imagination basically'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'supposed to be figment of their governments imagination'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'it is one form of power , $'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not really a figment of imagination, more that it's worth what people believe it's worth and as long as it continues to be accepted for purchase it's still worth something'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and money might not be everything, but below a certain threshold the lack thereof can be bad'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as long as the status quo is kept and our economy remains stable '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '$ ain't everythin ,not having it is '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I wonder what China? will ask in return for bailing out other economies ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they already effect Aust gov policy without bailouts .. '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'aust govt = fail.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The local Lemontree agrees!
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Lol in what way Sneak ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the difference between being a millionaire and a multimillionaire is nowhere near as high towards quality of life as the difference between an income of 10k and an income of 20k. :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'the welfare system is completely out-dated'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'also, they need to do something about them boats'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'there's millions of things that could be fixed better than they are that have to do with social circumstances'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'money's the main thing that stops people from having to come to those solutions themselves'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'money, and greed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there was a useful system in Bangledesh? microecenomics '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'i see greedy people that happen to use people's ignorance against them from a young age like people picking on retards after beating them over the head to make sure they're stupid, they invest in education being unaffordable and inefficient among other things'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'picking on retards is untastely once you reach a certain pubescent age usually'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'weavers were lent 20c to buy bulk raw materials , cutting out the middleman'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think you mean microfinance rather than microeconomics.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'the other kids treat you like a leper, but they gravitate towards the greedy man'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Yes thats it Majic , we did a project in Yr 11 on it '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'small risk, great rate of return on a triple bottom line and very low default rates '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Yep. I'm a huge fan of microfinance.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Applicable to the first world ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, actually, yes it should be. There are a lot of very small businesses who have a hellacious time getting funds for improvements and government approvals necessary because they just aren't on a large enough scale even when they produce stuff that's a higher quality.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'if the government was the company of the land it wouldn't be catering to other companies that challenge it's authority'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'deb manufacturing - hardto mocrofinance that because of the comparative advantage of lower wage countries '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'small businesses don't challenge it's authority if they compose the government company'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'democracy's missing in most places in places where they think democracy exists'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, I'm thinking more of agriculture because that's the area I've got the most experience in.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'capatalism is a democracy - it costs a dollar a vote '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'joel salatin's "everything I want to do is illegal" was an interesting read. :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'actually hobby farming in urban areas would be a great use of microfinance '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'absolutely. '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'added benefit of producing healthy food '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but in many places, even quiet and well-behaved hens are illegal.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'which is really dumb. I'd much rather live next to someone's HENS than someone's barking puppy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not to mention use up a lot of that abandoned building real estate....turn em into micro farms growing local crops.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'plus the blog I was reading last year where they got in trouble with their town because they grew vegetables in the front garden'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that's only for flowers and grass, you see. '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you could replace the chook poo nitrodgen for fish poo in some places - fish farming along with landfarming '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and my town bans line-drying of clothes too while whittering constantly about saving the planet.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'yeah, that is fascism to me, more concerned with looks than realities'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah in general are we too invested in our land prices to start to change ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'either extreme doesn't work very well, but one results in survival while the other results in death'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, considering that 33% of detroit is abandoned now....it makes sense to turn that unused land into city ag locations to let residents grow crops for a small seasonal fee.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Hell yes it does.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Plus it encourages local production of food which reduces fossil fuel usage in transportation.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'where did 33% of destroit go?'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given primary production is a low skill job too (in the most part) it may solve some uneployment probs too ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'anyplace with jobs.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well nods tzad plus if a family is single-income '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it might even reduce the concrete jungle affect in old cities that have a lot of unused land and commercial real estate....lower the overall temp in the cities.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'one of them can use spare time to contribute to the family etc.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and increase air quality ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that also'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and i specifically say one of them because it doesn't matter which one is unemployed :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't see too many loosers in the mix atm ? devils advocate time ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'who would oppose this ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'land owners ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'losers :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, the land owners wouldnt have to pay property taxes on the land if it was converted to city ag.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'people oppose it because they don't wanna grow vegetables/line-dry/etc themselves and feel guilty if their neighbours do'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'or they feel that 'poor people do that' '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or greenies ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most of the abandoned land in detroit and other cities is not producing prop taxes anyways, so might as well make it useful.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We could tear down 2 million homes in cities country wide, and open up that land to small parks, and city ag....prop values would increase, and the supply of homes would be reduced a bit.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would reduced supply increase prices ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not that much'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are probably 20 million empty homes right now, country wide.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just googled hobbyfarms detroit , some ppl already doing this '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if you take the ppl that are in the economy out of it to farm , what further impact on gov jobs, health services that depend on tax to fund it ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, I'm thinking more of enabling productivity and a better standard of living for people who are already out of it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but quite honestly I think that we already produce and consume too many things.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I had someone the other month telling me about how she is having trouble paying her bills etc, then when I pulled out my phone to make a call she said 'haha your phone is so old, how can you stand to have such an old phone, i couldn't show myself in public with a phone like that, etc etc''
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'whenever people are allowed to grow some of their own food, health gets better, and new markets open up to sell excess produce which stimulates the economy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'leap forward 20 years .. USA is an agrarian paradise but also in world term not backed it's military position and can no longer defend itself ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and I'm thinking 'well maybe if you weren't buying new top of the market phones every year you'd be able to pay your rent'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, 100 years ago the US was an agrarian country, now about 2% of that is left.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'both good points - how can consuming less become "sexy" though?'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'damn if I know.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'selling buying less ... '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we produce 1000% more food with 2% of the people who used to farm 100 years ago'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that's my goal, though.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'we produce more calories, dunno about more food :D'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a calorie is still a calorie, the problem is vitamins and minerals.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'personally I'm going to make a stack of $ while I'm young and hope to hell I don't need expensive healthcare when I'm older'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'being slightly sarcastic but I consider low-quality food to be a real issue.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the soil is not as vitamin and mineral rich as it used to be because of over farming the land we still use.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'artifical fertilizers suck.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'also because of poor usage and management'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah even the differance between fresh unprocessed and not fresh unprocessed is huge '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but I buy most of my produce from local farmers markets and community supported ag groups'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we need to expand the CSA idea.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Australias farmers are being squeezed by 2 supermarket chains , there aint much hope for them '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'well.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only because they allow it to happen.'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'which is one of the reasons to support microfinance and micromarketing, to get back to the origin of the conversation :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nice circle Majic :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well you're riding one of my pet hobbyhorses right now :D'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you get me started on microagriculture, I can go all day :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I know someone where I used to live was into hydro pretty big , you could almost computer control it with a few robot arms and someone to log in n check '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '"Farmville" is pretty big? why not use that social capital to do something like that ? have a real carrot as the outcome '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when I buy a house I'll make sure it's half burnt down so I can do what I like with it and it'll be an improvement :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just need a huge stash of $ to go with it incase I get cancer or something expensive and then yeah , I could live an agrarian life '
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'you wish'
T3/r5/2012-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'mix'
T3/r5/2012-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'now that Keystone is dead, what are the chances that the Save Online Porn Act/Protect Internet Porn Act are going to pass?'
T3/r5/2012-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'Amazing response time. Elect anons for congress!'
T3/r5/2012-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'in response to -h that sort of retardation doesn't sound very fascist...in fact that sounds far more liberal moronity coupled with standard suburban lunacy'
T3/r5/2012-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'we actually encourage vast swaths of self-sufficiency'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: '"Congressional leaders announced [yesterday] that they were putting the extremely controversial antipiracy bills PIPA and SOPA on hold for the immediate future -- possibly because Congress actually does listen to the public once a decade, possibly because Congress only just now learned that youre not supposed to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but most likely because Congress kept on trying to go on Wikipedia a couple days ago and got really annoyed by the black screen." -EW.com'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or perhaps they feared the threats of primarying them out of office were real.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People should primary them out of office anyway.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They were stupid and greedy enough to support it at first.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Agreeeed'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and then the public got to read the bills and found out about the zero-proof standard for shutting down websites.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'It's pretty amazing, the politcal power of Google and Wiki, when you think about it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Remember, as usual, it was the Republicans leading the charge. It's the party of greed and stupidity. As for the Democrats, they have bad eggs. Punish the bad eggs and the Republican party.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'political*'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'It's almost as if they said "jump" and we all "jumped".'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you DO realize nobody is throwing fits about the dumbass democrats backing the bill, right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'haha yes you are right'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Handlands: That's because they did not support the bill as a party.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It also shows that the Democratic Party is way more healthy than the Republican party. Whenever the Republicans introduce a bill. Pretty much 99% of the time, the entire party or almost all of them support it and will vote for it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whenever the Republican party wants to kill a Democrat bill, they all vote against it. Meanwhile, the Democratic party actually allows its elected officials to vote according to their conscience and what they think their constituency wants.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hehe, if you wish to believe that, go ahead.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, as I said, punish the idiotic Democrats who supported PIPA and SOPA. But remember, yet again, it was a Republican-introduced initiative and overwhelmingly republican-backed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but Pelosi made that a pretty obvious mockery'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obamacare was not, though. ;P'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the bailouts were also not.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're not being coherent.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, if you think Obamacare is bad, then there's no help for you.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, if you think Obamacare is bad, then there's no help for you.sca'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obamacare is bad, since it doesn't solve any fundamental problems and increases costs significantly (also more profits for insurance companies etc).'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Smiling, Tinada greets Summoner Yuna warmly.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Judging by your comments insofar, you're most probably a Republican (or a Libertarian) who will thinks "Socialized medicine" is evil.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obamacare is only bad because the Republicans KILLED all of the good parts.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What could be salvaged DOES introduce several good elements, but it could've been so much better had it been allowed to exist as originally envisioned.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or because it was attempts to partially patch a badly flawed system, and that sort of project is pretty much doomed to fail'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Meanwhile, I'm finding the Republican primary fascinating.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama can get bonus points for wanting universal health care, though.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'It's constitutionally bad.  '
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'but it serves a legitimate purpose'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because overhauling it and reworking it from scratch would take years. original!Obamacare would've acted as an interim transitionary bill to patch the holes while the system is reworked.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I am not convinced about that, but then, like Obama, I didn't read the law :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, Republicans of Aardwolf, which Republican candidate do you support?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Santorum'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still shocked Michelle Bachmann isn't receiving 0% of the votes.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Romney sounds way too much like a democrat, and democrats aren't at all looking good right now even if they were the better choice last cycle (given Obamamania, still not sure they were).'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm not a Republican, but if I had to support one of their candidates, it would be Paul'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Agent Phillip: 'Ron Paul has my vote'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'RP 2012! :-P'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Paul's not electible.  He's downright crazy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Santorum, the "Family Values" candidate.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Demonic Horadrim: 'yea auditing the fed to see if our currency is worthless is just insane'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'plus, he's got the trannie association thanks to RuPaul.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'At least he's actually living as he preaches.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'll give him that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'afaik, unless you are a total media slave, you are under no obligation to vote for "electable" candidates'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nobody is going to let trannies and weirdo-types get anywhere close to public office, no matter how good their ideas are.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Electibility is all about wanting to see your party in office.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They want a Republican in office, so they don't necessarily vote for the Republican they like the most, just the Republican they think has the greatest chance of beating Obama.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So... no Gingrinch or Bachmann supporters?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Mr. Paul's policies are also rather less crazy than those of the past half a dozen administrations.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'if that is all it is about, then paul is as electable as romeny, according to polls they are both tied in the standing against obama'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently I haven't been following the news coverage closely enough. Michelle Twatmann has dropped out.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Agent Phillip: 'that happened like a month ago'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Parallel: Er... do the polls claim them to be tied against Obama among ALL voters?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'remember, the republicans are still likely to have some congressional momentum from mid-term.  Getting a republican into office at a time when there's likely to be a definite republican majority is a good thing insofar as it remains uncertain enough for the branches to work together instead of crony up.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'instant runoff would help solve problems with third party candidates not having "electability"'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eh, I missed it and just assumed she'd been low-key since then.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'no, they are both tied a few points behind obama, nationally'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'polls the last couple of months typically have Obama a couple of percent ahead of named republicans, and a couple of percent behind a generic un-named republican.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I mean that they're are tied against EACH OTHER when going up against Obama among ALL voters.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not simply if the Republicans have to choose between the two.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Gingrich is still too much of an insider, and he didn't have the best of records while there anyways.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'my comment was for obama vs someone'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'yes yuna, all voters'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gingrinch is a twat and anyone who supports him is a twat as well.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'I'll find a link in a sec'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they reformed the system to instant runoff, we wouldn't have to worry about splitting the vote or electability of candidates...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's an instant runoff? All candidates vs. all candidates from the word "Go"?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'From which the Top X candidates get to face off in a final showdown?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Newt would be a great fit for some powerful watchdog force that could remain out of the in-office taint while still forcing those warming the seats to listen up and do the right things.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'http://www.thestatecolumn.com/articles/cnn-poll-ron-paul-tied-with-president-obama/'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you mark your preferences - if your top candidate is eliminated, your vote then goes to number 2, and so on'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that way the vote can't be split, and there's no need to worry about electability, because your voe won't split'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm gonna do like I did last time and vote with my 8-ball.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gingrinch is still a twat.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can even eliminate primaries that way. Save money.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Parallel is agreeing with that Summoner Yuna person again...
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I can't seem to find anything on Ron Paul's Wikipedia page about abolishing the Department of Education or whatever it's called. Was that his son?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yes, it was Rand. Giant nutbag.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anyway, I can actually live with Ron Paul and Mitt Romney. For once, Republican forerunners that don't make my blood boil.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you realize that Massachusetts has the #1 highest health premiums of all US states and territories, right?  And that with Obamacare being based on Romneycare, what we're looking at as it gets implemented is a health-care cost increase?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't pinpoint a single point of contention to each candidate and use it to classify them as unelectable.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And at least he isn't a twat.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'don't you wish people could mobilise for political reform as strongly as they did for sopa/pipa?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you saying they don't all the time?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's just that most of the time, the idiots still win.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they do.  What did you think the Tea Partiers were doing all this time?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Kotty Piip Dashiell is agreeing with that Summoner Yuna person again...
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kotty Piip Dashiell: 'just look at 2008. :D'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh please. The Tea Party are the biggest collection of Political Idiots I've ever seen.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Occupy could've even gotten going for real, if the hippy mentality wasn't so retarted to begin with.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They mobilized, yes. They were loud, yes. But their platform and ideas were idiotic.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You need to actually have something important to say in order to bring about change.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't see people protesting as cohesively the whole citizens united thing... and electoral reform isn't even on the table.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which is why I wholeheartedly supported Michelle Bachmann. Had she won the Republican nomination, there wasn't a snowball's chance in Hell she'd win against Obama.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the significant movements seem to be more about social/economic reform rather than reform of the political system itself...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ah, but you see, Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission doesn't directly affect the American sheeple, which is why they don't care.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'too bad the issues that directly affect the people are unlikely to get resolved until there's political reform'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, notice how the decision was entirely according to party lines (unless I'm misremebering) with the Republican-backed justices supporting it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, what was CU v. FEC?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'held that corporations are protected by the first amendment's freedom of speech'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Corporations can spend unlimited amounts of money on political campaigns.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Perfect example: Google and Wiki's voice on SOPA'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Every single Republican-backed Supreme Court Justice voted for, every Democratic-backed Supreme Court Justice against.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'corporations should be able to vote.  Anyone who can be sued should have a voice.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's pretty crazy to let entities that can't vote donate money at all.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No... Dresory... CU vs. FEC had NOTHING to do with that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Explain?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, Haslanda, that's not what it's about either.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's about being able to give money to candidates.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Short version: Before CU v. FEC, corporations could not spend unlimited amounts of money on political campaigning such as donations to candidates and ads.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'CU v. FEC ruled that they CAN.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which, effectively, removes the cap on private donations to candidates as well as long as one can slush funds through one's corporation.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the decision was that congress had no power to restrict the right of corporations to spend money on election advertising'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if I recall, wasn't there some issue outside of just corporations?  With the overall basis of the ruling being basically "if you can do it, they should be able to as well"?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No. "Political purposes".'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What Citizens United wanted to DO was spend a shitload of money on a campaign ad. This, however, was in violation of a previous ruling. By dissolving this prior ruling, there is no longer any cap on how much money corporations can spend for "political purposes", which includes, among other things, donations to candidates.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which is INSANE.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Yuna do you disagree with me that it was about freedom of speech or do you disagree with me about Google and Wiki's act the other day being a result of CU'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I disagree with the claim that Google's and Wikipedia's actions had anything to do with the case or that the case had anything to do with their actions.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Their action of defiance was in no way limited prior to the ruling.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I doubt all they did was protest.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'acts outside of election campaigning weren't under consideration there...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Even though they clearly spent money on a "political purpose"?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they no doubt poured money in or made it known such expections would be drying up as a result of passage.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what was under consideration was a law restricting election campaigning...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hilariously, Chris Dodd, formerly a Republican politician, now a lobbyist for the entertainment industry (he went straight from office to that position, BTW) responded to Wikipedia's and Google's protest with "It's an abuse of power!".'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you don't ever successfully kill a bill without major lobbying support.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204616504577172982126389026.html?mod=googlenews_wsj'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens_United_v._Federal_Election_Commission'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you saying it cost Google and Wikipedia a lot of money to do what they did?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Chris Dodd is a Democrat.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who exactly do you claim they paid?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Wiki shut down '
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, when you try to kill bill, the bride comes after you'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, and who did they pay for that?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'you don't think that cost them money?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, I'm saying they likely did more than what you saw on Wednesday.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's an ABSENSE OF INCOME. It's not the same thing a as COST.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Haha'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, CU v. FEC was all about campaigning.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'I guess we can argue about the meaning of cost'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might be a good idea to look up the case first, you know...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Dresory. No we CANNOT.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: '=D fine then haha'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'btw, how many ads do you see on wiki?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'zero'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So what did they lose money on?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, I'll amend myself: Expenses, not costs.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You nod at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess they lost money on the bajillion people who couldn't look up the information to donate. Costs!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Your right, they did not lose money via ads - in fact, that completely kills my argument as to Wiki.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'at the very least, they were threatening to withhold or even stop their campaign donations (in light of CU v FEC, of course, that could've theoretically been a very massive amount).  My bet is that Google, et al weren't content to stop at threats on future funding and paid lobbyists and paid for political ads against the bills.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, Google did NOT shut down. They did NOT lose any money due to ads or whatever. All they did was amend their homepage.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So what exactly did THEY lose money on, besides possibly advertisers pulling out?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which they do at every occasion'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lobbying was, regrettably, already legal prior to the ruling.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, that has nothing to do with CU or FEC.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Threatening to withhold donations is threatening to do the very anti-thesis to CU vs. FEC.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'And it seems CU was primarily about whether corporations are "people" thereby protected by the first amendment's freedom of speech. Spending money on a political purpose is a form of speech.  Shutting down your website and directing people to sign a petition against a bill is also a form of political speech.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's what the lobbyist argued.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, corporations are not people.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They consist OF people. But they are not people themselves.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT UC v. FEC WAS ABOUT.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For the LAST TIME, it was NOT about EVERY SINGLE THING corporations are and aren't allowed to do when it comes to politics!"'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It was SPECIFICALLY about financial CONTRIBUTIONS and ad campaigns.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What Google and Wikipedia did is in NO WAY connected to UC v. FEC! It was legal before the ruling and it remains legal today (obviously).'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The argument was that corporations are people (bullSHIT!) and thus they should be allowed to spend unlimited amounts on money on this and that. END OF STORY.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are unions corporations?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'UC v. FEC included unions.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Yuna didnt the argument that corporations "are people" win the day?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. Which is why I HATE UC v. FEC.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Yes that is clear haha'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then your point is?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'No point in that Yuna, just messing around with you.  I like friendly debates =D'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'p.s. I agree with you that the decision was BS'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we need a SOPA-like bill for illegal immigration.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'I just think that if the decision went the other way, and the court said that corporations do not have the rights of "people", then google and wiki would not be able to do what they did.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Agent Phillip enthusiastically high-fives Hanslanda!
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no, because it was already legal'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'I understand what your saying, however, then the case was not directly about what corporations can and can't do politically.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Dresosy. No, that would not have happened.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because the bill was JUST about those two things.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The pro-side just made up a BULLSHIT excuse.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't seem to understand how laws or Supreme Court decisions are made.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the case was about whether congress had a right to limit their political spending in that way'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'And what makes you think that Yuna?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gays cannot marry on the Federal Level because it is not considered a universal human right. This does NOT mean that gays are not considered humans who have basic human rights.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So just because gays cannot marry, you cannot just go out and kill them for sport.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The same logic applies here. Saying "Corporations cannot spend unlimited funds politically because they are not 'people'" does not automatically mean that corporations are not entitled to ANY rights afforded to "people".'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(in fact, this is even more obvious than in the gay-marriage-analogy-thing)'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"You are not people" =/= "You are not allowed to do anything people are allowed to do"'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was more about letting nonprofits get a leg up on evil corporations.  The expected decision was that nonprofits could spend more, on account that their funding was less certain and therefore more valuable (ergo, anything they spent it on would be more trustworthy and honest).  They just got thrown a curveball that kept the status quo'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'I am saying the constitution protects U.S. citizens.  If corporations are not "citizens" then they are not afforded the constitutional rights of citizens'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'NO BE QUIET. GO AWAY!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For the love of penises, you just WON'T get it!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I blame you, you're the explainer here.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I dislike that corporations are afforded Bill of Rights protections'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So I'm to blame for his lack of common sense and logic?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'IMHO they shouldn't be protected by shit.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Oh so now the rights afforded by the constitution is about common sense?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you not understanding what the fuck I'm trying to tell you is you lacking common sense.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Easy Yuna, seriously.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'CU vs FEC = stupid = bad. Got it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'No need for that'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"You are not 'people'" =/= "You are not afforded ANY rights of 'people'"'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can you NOT understand that?!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or do you simply not know what "=/=" means?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'IT looks like a squinting pokemon, to be honest...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Agent Phillip: 'does not equal?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm asking Dresory.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'equal slash equal does not equal not equals.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'Please phrase it how I said.  I said if you are not a citizen, the rights afforded to citizens, by the consitution are not applicable to you. Go ahead yell again that I am not getting it'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Parallel: 'CU vs FEC help defeat SOAP/PIPA    *ducks*'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's one way to draw the proper mathematical symbol for not equals, hans'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'or you could use != ...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'programmers often use ! for not'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The CU v. FEC did not rule on whether or not corporations are considered "citizens".'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your argument is invalid.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but non-programmers aren't often familiar with that convention'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'Me, I just think that =/= is two rings and a wand.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people in grade school often see an equals sign with a slash through it when they start logic'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seriously, Salvanas hacks the net.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how's an equal a ring?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'nethackery'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they teach logic in grade school now?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seriously, Salvanas rapidly nods twice at Sotura, in complete agreement.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ahh, different frame of mind'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'All in a row, ready to be zapped with polymorph...'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seriously, Salvanas smiles happily.
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'could be a mimic!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or three!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'ought to have a nethack room/area on aard'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'if there isn't already'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'runto area, and your screen text is replaced by ASCII symbols?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's called tech.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seriously, Salvanas goes, "Heh."
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all new areas are to be original'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you realize what we DO here, right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, room/area.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'you've got a chess board'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'our very existence, at its most basic and raw form, is a direct tribute to nethack.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seriously, Salvanas: 'That was an old area, all new areas need to be original, yes.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hence my use of the term "new areas"'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i know, i know, just wishful thinking'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'maybe we could con the nethack crowd into putting a port to aard next to the vibrating square'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and if you need something more obvious, check out the Dungeon of Mystery next year.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'but a nethack tournament on aard would be pretty cool'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'better than mafia'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'debate ah, like that, not an area, but whatever mafia is'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mafia's more like a play-by-channel text game'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'are there no multiplayer implementations of nethack?  seems like a nobrainer'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the frontrunner got turned into a newt!'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'better a newt than a ginGRINCH'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'newt gingrich wins in south carolina primary'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'SC has a sense of humor :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'retarded'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'it's a state full of retards'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, maybe not. Maybe they were telling the reps that they didn't really like any of the candidates.'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so they picked the worse one.''
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'who does? but surely anyone can find a better example of a human than gingrich'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, he's a perfect message. "This is what we think of you" :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'South Carolina's Republicans rated the ability to beat Obama as a candidate's most important quality, an exit poll on CNN showed. Forty-five percent of voters said that was the main attribute they sought in a nominee. Of that group, 51 percent voted for Gingrich compared to 37 percent for Romney.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'I farted'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Geez, what's that smell?  Guess Dirkdiggler needs to poop.
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so romney loosing support from those that don't trust the LDS?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, his support has been pretty constant'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'LSD?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he's only the frontrunner as long as the anti-romney vote is split'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so the newt is gaining ground ? perhaps seen more as a washington insider than Mitt ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'no but seriously...i farted'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'later day saints not d lysergic acid dythilamide .. '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: '....but seriously....'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... it remains to be seen if he's jst the anti romney of the moment'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'only does them damage to have this draw out so long , imo Newt has been gaining traction attacking Obama as well as attacking Mitt etc .'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol yeah he has a habit of foot shooting '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I have to wonder if any of them stand any chance of beating obama though'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The guy who says he will outlaw corporate donations to political concerns should win every damn vote in that country...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I love Newts line on a second "more radical" term from Obama'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'except no one in it will suggest anything remotely close'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Right sonshi.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah they have even relaxed donation legislation with the special group ? special pax? groups ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'superpacs?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lol...Super PAC is the death of US democracy'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'thats the one '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I MUD first and listen to the news second :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it was already bleeding to death before...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And it isn't so much relaxed as completely removed via a proxy'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Super PAX... I like the sound of that.  Cape-wearing gaming-convention man!'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and Yank politics is so damn entertaining '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wanna donate a billion in exchange for a new law? Make a PAC, done deal'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Obama- someones employee of the month .. '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That latest quote from, who is it, Chris Dodds I think? Head of the MPAA threatening to withdraw funding because he didn't get the laws he paid for'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Someone needs to shoot that guy, fast.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Careful, they actually do that here.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think it would benefit your country if your politicians weren't so corrupt'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo that will never happen , they are too damn careful and the few plots they uncovered that we heard about were idiot white supremacists'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what the american founding fathers didn't anticipate was the day when the conflict between "freedom of speech" and political freedom would come into such great conflict...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'among other things'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo the political system , along with the banking system need to be taken back to 0 and started again '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The hard-on the US seems to have for some dead guys who wrote some anti-Brit stuff is as mind-bogglingly strange as the pervasiveness of religion in your government'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No matter how intelligent they were, they could NOT have anticipated how completely the world has changed'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And presuming to do things the same way they did, or even close, is ludicrous'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Imo religion and politics were at thier hight under Bush and have since waned ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the ideals they wrote aren't problematic imo'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is their application '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's also that whole right to bear arms thing... in an age without nukes, jets, or even tanks...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Waned? HA! - have you seen the "I am not afraid to call myself a Christian" video? Like a whack job on film, and someone like him could rule the whole US'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'made great sense then...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, they did anticipate that the world would change, which is why they had provisions for the constitution to be changed, like any reasonable people would allow for...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'both the first and second amendments were meant to deal with overbearing governments, not your neighbors. They were supposed to ensure that those in power would not try to subjugate the people. They were not intended for what they are used for now.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The 'higher appeal' they wrote of was written in a world of racism, slavery, religous persecution and landed gentry - it was not anywhere near as 'lofty' as the US primary school indoctrination seems to make it out to be'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I actually agree with the population having a right to be able to be effective partisans on their own back , not sure on the ramifications of that though '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Don't worry vakieh, politicians are actually to brainwashed to actually believe anything, including God. Mostly all religion does is give one party a huge mindless voting block.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The population shouldn't NEED to fight the government - they ARE the government - any time it is needed is when those before them failed'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, the founding fathers only concern was to protect the landowners, which were the only ones who had rights.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unlike back then, small arms are so cheap these days that people in countries plunged into chaos can easily obtain small arms, whether they were banned or not when the country was stable...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Australia has wide areas of land that are undefendable and a probable invasion sourcwe from the north , would help to have the population shooting back with more than bolt action rifles n shotgus , just wouldn't trust 2 in 10 with the responsability to bear anything like military arms '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'inhospitable deserts aren't the best places to put a forward base for an invasion though...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah but there are ppl that live here and are used to it , would certainly slow down any invasion force , provided conventional war that is '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hard to slow down ships and jets. Much better to just build more anti-ship capability'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'subs are very good for preventing a sea invasion'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'until they get taken out, anyway'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep , LOL Australia is really good at building submarines :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'have enough subs, and they can't approach except under heavy escort'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'seriously - ever want a laugh - look up Collins Class sub program Austraila '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as they don't get sunk...'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'one of Austs biggest military failures '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just needs to be a sub fleet in being'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I don't think we have crew for more than one of them and there are only 8-12 in the class .'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'crew's not quite the greatest problem when it comes to subs..'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'plenty of australians around'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'getting em to work in subs , where you'd have to thing with limited space the positions are specialised is a diff matter '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no burger flippers in subs ? hell we struggle trying to get real burger flippers '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, just a question of salaries'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the prob with having a liad back clture is noone wants to work in it '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'an soz for the typing , one of those stupid bananna keyboards atm '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'banana keyboards?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'bananna shaped '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ergonomic'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I've seen plenty of hardworking aussies! Just not in australia.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'erganomic my a$$ gimme RSI and a flat standard size keyboard anyday '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(was a joke)'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol yeh there are alot of hard working ppl here just .. ah complex issue - 4-7% unemplayment depending on where you go and yet businesses are screaming out for workers , skills shortage here and a mining boom and a slack welfare system .. '
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So how the heck does the U.S. have jurisdiction over him?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aveba: 'over who?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, brown seaweed can make up to 5 times the biofuel output as corn, but only 3 percent of the world's coastline can produce enough seaweed to replace 60 billion gallons of gas.'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'Along with the black plague they say they have stored in a safe place incase 'it ever happens again' instead of storing the formula for the antibody, Bioterror fears halt research on mutant bird flu http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16662346 , this is after soldiers arriving home from iraq in a washington hospital had a strange flu that was that h1n1, and it escaped into the public'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'what do you think, is the real problems being dealt with or who their problems are?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'seen that on abcnews about the h1n1 flu coming from iraq soldiers in american hospital, though they didn't say it was h1n1 it was adjacent to that phase'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'maybe these bbc researchers invented that one too?  and this is just a if you don't follow orders that could happen kind of article?'
T3/r5/2012-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Imp Druzil: 'dutch architects building 9/11 towers in south korean art modernization comes to mind among other supporting factors'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'Should the debate channel be used to discuss politics?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I hate "American Pickers"'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Good for nothing, slimy, thieves'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'it's a reality show.  What did you expect?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I wish someone would shoot these motherfuckers.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'or you could just change the channel'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'watch jersey shore, it'll calm you down'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Only if some bitch gets punched in the face.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'if you want that watch womens boxing'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'or watch nothing, all television is a grand scam'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Akuri: 'yea most of those shows lowball people cause they need the money '
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Ergh, yeah, I can't watch this.  These assholes are robbing this poor woman blind.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'she had a choice'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'True, but they deliberately lie and mislead their victims into selling.  They aren't forthright or honest at all.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'keep your crap or be on tv'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'enough people are stupid enough to choose the latter'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'fortunately President Santorum will save us all from cruft'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I find Santorum to be a horrifying human being.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What about Gingrinch?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'Ging the Grinch is only slightly worse than the Santorum'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Beakerboy: 'i cannot believe that santorum started the CUM donation drive. '
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'at that point we're broking platitudes, so what's the diff?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Birds of a feather, I say, only Santorum isn't also a huge hypocrite.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'i'm very keen on Santorum'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Santorum started the CUM donation drive? After what his name has been made synonymous to? It has to be deliberate. Or one of his interns is gay and sabotaging him.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'I think we should all take a moment to reflect on the true intention of SOPA: removing Santorum from the google database...'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'freedom to Santorum is the prescience to choose Santorum's religion, or to rot'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Beakerboy: 'i thought it was a joke until I went to www.ricksantorum.com'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'the only Santorum i can acknowledge is the photo where he admitted defeat'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'the wife all "whatever," the daughter all "i has a sad," the son all "i saw balls," and the little lady wearing a dress which matched her doll'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, when did Santorum admit defeat and on what?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'years ago'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/files//2012/01/08santorum.jpg'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I dislike his forced birthing stance plus TRIPLING the breeder tax benefit per child.  GREAT way to bring down the national deficit, that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'he lost his damn seat'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wonder why.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'and he generated in the process the most glorious photograph in the history of murican history'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love it how wingnuts like Santorum like to argue that gay marriage has never been part of any society up 'til now. Just shows how little they know about society.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'i printed that photograph and pasted it all over my walls'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lolololol, in September of last year, Rick Santorum tried to get Google to make the anal sex-connotated definition of "Santorum" from appearing so liberally when one Googles his name. I wonder what his position on SOPA is... (I'm too lazy to look it up)'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'sometimes not knowing is half the battle'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ahahahahaha... his Wikipedia has taught me so much. Santorum doesn't believe in the "right to privacy" (trollololol) and he stated in 2003 that he wants laws against polygamy (and adultery and sodomy). News flash, Santorum: There already are laws against it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'so he believes in the wrong to privacy?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are federal laws against buttsex?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'the simplest way to express santorum's policy is that he looks upon sharia with deep envy'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think he meant gays by sodomy and the other naughty stuff'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was talking about polygamy. There are no laws against the stuff within paranthesis. Although the official platform of the Texas Republican Party IS to outlaw sodomy again.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm pretty sure that's not true.  Source?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what's sodomy anyway? i never got that'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i think they ought to outlaw masturbation while hanging yourself... it's just too dangerous!'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sodomy is buttsex'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Beakerboy: 'are you sure about the no laws against sodomy?  i thought there were still laws on the books in some states about that'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Meanwhile they don't address the drug cartels that are marauding about the countryside.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are state and local laws against sodomy, but they are generally of the strange, unenforced kind.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'some states still have the law against sodomy. few enforce it since you need a search warrant to prove it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'is sodomy defined anywhere in the law?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'technically, there are still laws on the books that prevent 3 single women from being roommates.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or you can call any kinky shit sodomy and be done with it?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'let's not allow penile tattoos!  They're too freaky!'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Fundie seem to use it to refer to anything other than the missionary position.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sodomy is ANY sex besides vaginal sex.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'some states define sodomy as simply as penile-anal contact.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'so any non-procreational sex then?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'and as yuna states, there are also those strange states that state anything outside of missionary procreation to be sodomy'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'god bless america'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Speaking of contraceptives, Rick Santorum is against the sale of contraceptives to married couples. WTF.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mikejs: 'there's also states that have laws against eating donuts while walking backwards.  doesn't mean it's right.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav nods at Nonexist.
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I found this a week or so ago, and was greatly amused:'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-361'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Like I said Yuna - MANDATORY parenthood OR ELSE'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't understand why the us is called the land of the free'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Blowjobs are a felony in Virginia.  Not kidding.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no jackboots storming in during the night.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'santorum would criminalize consensual sexual relations between a married couple if they did not screw for the sake of procreation'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'There shouldn't be any strip clubs inside hotdog stands, there, it had to be said'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'heh. VIRGINia :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rabidrabbit: 'eating donuts while walking backwards... while typing it in was ridicilous enough,,'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Thank god I got sterilized already... before that whackjob outlaws it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'i live in virginia, so i'm not laughing'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'has anyone been actually prosecuted with that charge?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I doubt it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'doesn't matter, starling. if anyone touches your sun-don't-shine for any reason other than procreation, it's either rape or sodomy'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also, who the fuck would outlaw blowjobs?!'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'as for blowjobs, probably not'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mikejs: 'someone who's not getting them, Dagnir.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm sure it was tried, with said charge thrown out of court amid uproarious laughter and uncomfortable titters and perhaps admonishments to overzealous prosecutors.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'but there have in fact been people in virginia prosecuted for cheating on a spouse'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, but someone had to vote on it. still doesn't make sense'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I mean, I realize he is probably miserable with that cow of a wife and the bratty kids, but why does he want to visit that pain on everyone else by outlawing contraception and whatnot?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'even when neither spouse opts to file charges'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Is it really that hard to just leave that sow?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'in virginia you have to be separated one year minimum to divorce'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you know that if your dog gets summoned for jury duty, it's a crime if you do not show up?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'if either party claims the other visited, the countdown resets to zero'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ok, i'm going to bed. too much stupid on this channel'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'fucking fact: virginia is a shithole'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'nobody wants to live in virginia'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what about utah? i've heard having fun is a felony there'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'utah is a special case'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i live in utah'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'an old friend of mine lives in utah. she's not a mormon.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i had a lot of fun in utah'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'same as any other state'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'BTW, a Baptist church once banned interracial couples (and by "once" I mean "last year"). When the heads of their cult threw the ban out because it was illegal, a pastor at the church who has since stepped down (I wonder why) claimed he wasn't a racist. '
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'she claims it's a heck of a place'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'but perhaps they just didn't catch me'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aaah, Utah, the place where the Mormon Church actually owns a piece of a plaza in public space (there are absolutely no signs to indicate where the space stops being actually public) in SAlt Lake City (I think) and where they have to right to stop anyone they don't like from walking on said plaza and have them arrested.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'my friend said she was endlessly harassed through public schools'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'not just by kids, but by adults as well'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can you be harassed through public school?'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'cyberbullying'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'there are quite a few biggots here, but thats not unlike most of this country'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'the kids beat her up and insulted her, the teachers failed her'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not through the school. That's just while in school.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'laws are going into effect where teachers cannot digitally interact with their students via social media while using school property, but there are no similar laws for student-to-student interaction.  Essentially, they're unsupervised.'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'maybe. smile sweetly and explain that to the kid living through it'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nonexist: 'my friend survived, but i'd call her emotionally broken now. kind of a waste, she's quite hot'
T3/r5/2012-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I'm so excited! We're mere minutes away from guaranteeing an unsatisfying bullshit response! https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/investigate-chris-dodd-and-mpaa-bribery-after-he-publicly-admited-bribing-politicans-pass/DffX0YQv'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"A cat belonging to an Arkansas Democratic campaign manager was found dead on Sunday night with the word "Liberal" spray-painted across its side,"'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'oh geeze, people here in arkansas always do dumb stuff and make us look bad lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm surprised the killer didn't also accuse him of being a Communist.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"The mixed-breed Siamese cat had one side of its head bashed in to "the point the cat's eyeball was barely hanging from its socket," the release said."'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Arkansas, where they banned gay adoption (I think) in 2008. Real class acts those Arkansasians.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no offense, but I don't think they're trying to make other Arkansawans look bad...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'rather cruel...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wonder if it's one of the neighbours'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'turns out that gay parents make better parents.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'i dont believe thats their intention either.. but good lord'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'not all of us are like that, just most lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'must be someone who knew whom the cat belonged to'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Studies show that gay parents are equal to if not better than heterosexual parents. Children of Lesbians are the most well-adjusted.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wonder if that has any correlation to the fact that childrearing is still predominantly woman's work?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'The dead cat notwithstanding, I would be pretty creeped out if someone hated me enough to kill my pet in such a fashion... if I had a pet.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that is, it's not that lezzies are that much better so much as they're Mom squared.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Male) gay households still produced children just as if not more well-adjusted than that of the average opposite-sex household. So probably not.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The funny thing is that since they used "Liberal" as a slur, they are likely to be of the "Family values" demographic. Great family values, killing people's cats.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'did they correct for education and wealth?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we had someone poison our dog once.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'what exactly does 'well adjusted' mean?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'family values only apply to people like you'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'duh'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well-adjusted means how... well... how well they are. Mentally, physically, when interacting with others, etc.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'my opinion of well adjusted is not possessing any debilitating mental issues, key word on debilitating'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Generally, it means they do well in school, keep healthy relationships with their parents and peers and look like they're growing up to be great people in the future.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'I think well adjusted is subjective'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well-adjusted means Little Princess isn't dressing provocatively or acting far more mature than her age when ponies and rainbows are still all the rage to her.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, it usually involves not killing people's cats because they're Liberal.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'well, that I agree with'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for example, your son's not very well-adjusted if he's the subject of an article entitled "Dad at age 13"'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I thought your kids were well-adjusted if you took them to the chiropracter'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'great grandmother at 30'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'I just get warry when people start throwing around terms like well adjusted'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'how big was the cat?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i mean, is it even possible to spraypaint 7 legible characters on a cat?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'i wasn't going to ask that, but that ran through my mind too, I'm not sure I could paint liberal on the side of a cat'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doesn't say, but there are pictures...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'about 10 lbs, but that's a conservative estimate.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/liberal-dead-cat-arkansas-a-google-search-tells-a-partisan-story/2012/01/24/gIQAukABOQ_blog.html'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'has one picture, among others'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'other articles have grisly descriptions'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In other news, Faux Noise (Fox News) barely covered the story at all, and certainly not in print or on the airwaves. Colour me surprised! Fair and balanced apparently means "One side of the story".'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess they were too busy making Russian infographics that involve more than 100% of people.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'looks like they did report on it, actually.  Timestamps don't seem to indicate doing so before today, though.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'I can't think of any news outlet that's fair and balanced'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'my guess is that they wanted to verify the story before rushing off to criticize some italian cruise captain for letting his ship flood.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to that piece, Faux Noise only did a "wire piece", which indicates an online article. Nothing on the airwaves, nothing in print.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Meanwhile, if anyone alleges a Democrat did anything wrong, they run that shit at once (and never apologize or correct themselves if they are later proven wrong) and repeat it ad nauseum all day long.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there's a demand for certain types of "news services". They do it because it's profitable.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'everyone does that, though.  Even the smalltime players you think are on the up-and-up.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'they do it because, like it or not, people want to watch it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's like in that Mel Gibson movie Payback.  If you go up high enough, there's always just one person.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'you're not implying that news outlets are entertainment business that try to make a profit by tailoring their stories to the types of people that watch them?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes, and unsurprisingly, a lot of people prefer to hear what they already believe...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'and find bias in things they don't agree with?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, but Faux Noise is at the head of that kind of "journalism". They're also notorious and pretty much in the minority for jumping on unverified crap and never correcting themselves.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'o.O'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It baffles me how they can retain their status as a "news" corporation.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if that really is objectively true, Sonshi, then Americans as a whole REALLY don't want liberals in power.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's a difference between slanted and made up shit.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, someone has to cater to the sort of people who least believe in searching for the truth...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's not americans as a whole, but it's a large enough minority that it's worth making a channel which caters to them.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you have channels for people who like history, channels for people who like sci fi... and fox for people who like... that sort of stuff'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'bill o'reilly is my guilty pleasure'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'and msnbc?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Fox, MSNBC (obviously a liberal propaganda machine, but undeniably a channel just like Fox), CNN, CSPAN, etc'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'MSNBC is a propaganda channel, but at least they don't run unverified tripe and never correct themselves. Again, slanting =/= Lying, which is why I hate Fox with a passion.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you wanted a less biased news source for american news, you'd be looking at mostly non-us sources...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'like Al-jazeera? :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, bbc, reuters, even al-j is okay. At least you know what their slants are going to be.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'bbc'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you really don't think MSNBC isn't doing the whole slanting/lying/spin/etc thing you think Fox is doing?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Slanting? Yes. Spinning? Yes. Outright lies? Isolated incidents and not company standard.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with bbc you can ignore stuff that relates to the brits, al-j the stuff that relates to israel, etc.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they do it more, and there are far more stories not told through the NBC family than there are not told through the Fox family.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Omission =/= Lies.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'it depends on what you omit'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fox jumped on the "I got attacked by an Obama supporter and had a B carved into my face!" bullshit story. I don't think they EVER aired a retraction once it was uncovered that the bitch did it to herself.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lol. that really happened?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. She was too stupid to do it properly. She did it while looking in the mirror and carved a backwards B. That's what gave her away and she finally broke down and confessed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'do it for the lulz?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fox ran that story to the ground the minute she spoke to the press. Not a single retraction from what I could tell.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when did that happen?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Last Presidential election cycle (2008).'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'pfft!  Might as well write you off as an Al Gore recounter, then.  Thought it was something more recent.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://www.wtae.com/news/17789356/detail.html | http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1080189/Young-Republican-claimed-Obama-supporter-carved-letter-B-face-robbery-story-police-say.html'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you saying Faux has changed in the past 4 years?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't see why so many American trust Rupert Murdoch, an Australian business magnate who fostered a corporate environment in the U.K. so corrupt their newspapers started hacking people's phones, including that of a missing teen (who turned up dead) WHILE SHE WAS MISSING.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He claims to have had no knowledge of these apparently widespread and long-term corporate shenanigans. That has already cost them millions in damages.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'the best part about that crazy college student is that the B was backwards ala she did it in a mirror'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama hooks up drug cartels by sending them gun and laundering their money.  Clearly, those in power are the ones doing all the bad things and so should be prosecuted as such.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what, you DIDN'T know DEA was laundering drug money?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Care to provide any credible sources for that?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'the dea did that, its not like obama is in mexico handing out weapons'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Operation Fast and Furious should provide more than enough such links for the gun stuff.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh, in other news, bit of fighting in bani walid. Early news articles claimed that pro-gaddafi forces had pushed out NTC troops, but now it appears that some local faction was trying to paint some other faction as being counterrevolutionaries after losing a fight.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You do realize that Obama isn't a dictator, right? He can't just say "Make it so" or "Stop doing that".'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People working for the government are doing it =/= Obama is doing it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Oct30/0,4670,AttackMcCainSticker,00.html'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, the government is so packed with political appointees stretching back for decades, it's hard for regular people to tell who's responsible for what anymore.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess Obama's cat was slain recently and had the word "Liberal" carved into it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'my point was that you can't hold the men in power (ie, Rupert Murdoch) directly accountable for the scandals that are committed by their holdings JUST because they are the men in power.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'that cat was ruining america!!!!!!!!!!'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'fox's update on the 'carved B into face', also from 2008, about her being arrested for lying to the police.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't say that's what I thought. I was not so subtly implying that I highly doubt he was unaware of the shennanigans.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Majic: Wire pieces. Not on the air.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's gotten bad enough that there are probably lots of people working to discredit their opponents for political gain, even as it damages the country.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'see every republican candidate this year'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, I don't *watch* fox, but you said 'not one single retraction', if you meant otherwise you should've clarified'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Almost every single Republican candidate this year discredits themselves by their own actions.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'every democrat, too.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I should've clarified, Majic.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even the independants are getting in on the action.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what, shock and horror, politicians are scum?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I just think that if you run a story on-air ad nauseum, when it's proven to be fake, you should run a retraction on-air as well.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'how much fox do you watch, and why??? :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because a bajillion people saw the news footage but didn't read the retraction. And Fox knows that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't actually watch Fox. I see a few things here and there. And if it's really outrageous, I pay attention.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'because the narrative drives the content, and part of the conservative narrative is "we are never wrong"'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, that wire piece retraction that Faux Noise ran, it was posted SIX DAYS after Ashley Todd admitted to it being a hoax.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Faux also makes sure to wait long enough for people to have forgotten about stuff before admitting they ran bullshit.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for a few people, it's a bit as if, God can't be on the wrong side, so I can't be wrong...'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'that was posted so they have a rebuttal to the constant attacks on their accuracy'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ah, the "God's with me" politicians. Sarah Palin, why didn't you enter the race? What a glorious catfight that would've been. Palin vs. Bachmann.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stretcher: Well, obviously.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'the narrative drives the content, facts are secondary'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, the link I pasted was the first one I found on search fox for "Ashley todd"'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'however, here's the second link, posted 5 days earlier. http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Oct25/0,4670,AttackMcCainSticker,00.html'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, they ran a retraction the day AFTER she confessed. Still a day late. But at least it's not 6 days.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, they made a big hullabaloo about it on air and only ran retractions on their website.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I stand corrected. They ran a retraction the same day she confessed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And then... they ran the exact same article the next day?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'for clicks'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Holy dildoes, it's the EXACT same article, verbatim. Posted once on the 24th and once on the 25th.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stretcher: 'they are a prolific organization, but not noted for their accuracy :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'MSNBC does the same thing.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all the news-forwarding sites do, too.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What, repost articles verbatim one day apart?'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and make big deals out of stories with inconvenient retractions.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Yes. It's pretty common actually to see the same story posted online by several different news-sites.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'including, yes, the same one on consecutive days.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'people who work for news companies really don't seem to care about textual quality.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'typos, mischaracterizations, in a few extreme cases outright lies.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'although in this case it's the stupid attention-seeking chick '
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'who lied'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Majic. It's the SAME news source.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fox News posted the SAME article twice, verbatim, two days in a row'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Yes, Yuna, that's what my 'including the same one on consecutive days''
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Why yes, I had gathered that. I am able to read, and you had already said that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and I said that that is not uncommon.'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 's.o.u. time'
T3/r5/2012-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'yay?'
T3/r5/2012-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'did you hear they found the cure for cancer now?'
T3/r5/2012-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'it's more of a vaccine'
T3/r5/2012-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greagan: 'at least from what I had heard, but yeah'
T3/r5/2012-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'it had the word liberal painted on it?'
T3/r5/2012-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'mix'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I meant through iTunes itself. Using other programs is cumbersome.'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan.'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'Sajak: (hic!) Sorry, there's no E in the puzzle. Contestant: ...I said H, Pat.'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'did you hear that Pat Sajak used to do Wheel of Fortune tapings while drunk?'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Guh, digital TV was such a fucking tarded idea'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'At least analog could tolerate poor signal reception, worst you would get is a fuzzy picture'
T3/r5/2012-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Much better than the psychedelic mush that happens now.  Am I right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Unplugged Abradix: 'GOP Debate: Romney-Gingrich circlejerk. Oh joy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rechy Arxe just heard another candidate flush down the toilet of potency as Gingrich proposes to colonize the moon as president.....
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tlaloc: 'Are there any democratic possibilities other than Obama?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'usually the president is auto in afaik'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tlaloc: 'Depends on the pres and the year and their popularity'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Gingrich doesn't plant to that untill his second term don't try to make him sound crazy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'i bet people have split into two major categories: they receive food stamps or they support republicans'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'thanks to obama'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i hate both parties'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tlaloc: 'I need to get food stamps, but I hate both parties too'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'obama was set up in 2006 to be the democratic patsy.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'food stamps are really helpful if you qualify'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'i think it was 2004, and what was he a patsy for?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'right, but obama made every effort that people who make their own money hate him now'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'gingrich would actually fix the economy, so let's vote for obama!'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can qualify for food stamps if you're unemployed and sitting on a couple hundred million of deferred income.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well when you can spend your foodstamps on filet mignon and lobster, not right'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'you can't really sit on deferred income without income, as you have various prop taxes to pay'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'could you use your whole months food stamps to buy a tin of beluga caviar, i wonder'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Ain't no property taxes on retirement accounts and suchlike.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'you could, but if you really need to feed yourself and a family, you would not buy beluga'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ph 15'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and if you had something like a Roth IRA going, any principal you put in can be taken out taxfree whenever you wish with no sort of penalty beyond the obvious one of not having that money working for you.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'that's because with a roth ira you've already paid the taxes on that income'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'Modi: you can use your foodstamps in Whole Foods, and even in Life Thyme'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'how many millionaires do you think there are on food stamps and how many people living in poverty are on food stamps?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, and most states only have a subset of items able to be purchased with food stamps'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'Life Thyme is one of the most expensive grocety shops in NYC'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'these are the same millionaires most people think are weaseling out of paying their fair share in taxes, right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tlaloc: 'I doubt any millionaire would be greedy enough to do food stamps too'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'so let's fix the tax code instead of food stamps'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what makes you think people smart enough to avoid paying taxes aren't going to go for easy money?  Any scenario that makes it unlikely for them to do so generally destroys the evil-millionaire argument.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tlaloc: 'Amount of paperwork is incredible'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm sure there are some, but not common enough that it'd cost less to police than is being lost'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there are documented cases of people who were of means having been busted for welfare scam.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'welfare's different than food stamps...welfare is cash in hand'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'those are the "few".  There's a far bigger pool of people who didn't get caught.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are also documented cases of millionaires who panhandle.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'only mentally-imbalanced ones...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'there are waste, corruption, and scams abound... it doesn't mean the need doesn't exist'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's what I meant, Hanslanda.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'yep, waste, corruption, scams everywhere....so let's just keep expanding government to make these problems even bigger'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'no, it's a myth to say government is the cause of humans acting badly'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'panhandling is about the worst ROI for effort...it's time-consuming, labor-intensive, for not all that much gain'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it could be argued that greed is unbalancing except that it is hardwired on just about all living creatures.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not the cause, merely an enabler in some cases'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and what about that farm-aid program intended to help black farmers?  More than a few millionaires got handouts from programs like that.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'should churches all be disbanded because there are some bad priests?  should all businesses be destroyed because some of them are crooked?  it's windmilling...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you'd have to define "some", Sotura :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'my point here is that nothing is pure, and arguing that because government programs are not pure, they have to be reduced, is a dangerous simplification that can have very bad results... government waste has to be addressed, but not simply by slash and burn'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'i never said gov't was the cause for people acting badly, it's a huuuuge enabler though, *nod abelinc'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'sorry, most of those programs DO need to be reduced, not eliminated, reduced'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'first rule of cleanup is demolition and cleanup.  Get rid of the trash, let it sit and suffer a while, then build new.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Sotura, the thing is, those who play the game strictly by the rules are rare and far in between. I doubt any businessman with a chance to make a profit will look at the ethics of the situation hard enough to dissuade him if the legality is in order.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he can't afford to'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'he could afford to if all abided.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the first item on the agenda should be the military industrial complex... not welfare, not social security... etc.  the biggest source of fraud right now is there, and oil second... i believe'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that is why he can't afford to.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if everyone abided in JUST the construction industry, we'd be paying double or triple what we pay now.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'in any case, we've got huge crimes being commmitted in all the corporate sectors, and the first target is the poor?  that's ridiculous'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what programs are we talking about now? when I came in, it was food stamps, so I'm not quite sure what businessmen we're discussing, and I wouldn't say that people validly on welfare or food stamps are few & far between nowadays'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so your claim is that if contractors didn't overcharge we would be paying more?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'it's not a real solution, it's a smoke screen'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'or that if people wouldn't accept bribes we would be paying more?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they woudl still be overcharging, but stuff would be far more expensive and they wouldn't be trying to cut corners.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'interesting mathematical model :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'forgive me if I say you make no sense. To me cost + overcharge will always be greater than cost.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'prosecute corporate criminals... it's a much higher priority... the attack on welfare recipients is a smoke screen'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'construction is getting double-whammied by rising costs and cheap labor, which means as a bidder I can give you a great-looking price that's around half of what I need to charge you just to break even.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'debate get rid of the pacs, that's insane... correct campaign financing... these are all much bigger deals than welfare fraud'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, if contractors didn't overchage to begin with, something that percolates through the entire financial world, they wouldn't be in the bind there in now'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'that's funny, because i know of tons of welfare fraud around these parts, and i'm from a little town in ohio'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you do realize they are currently overcharging and still not making cost, right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rechy Arxe: '0h'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rechy Arxe: 'mis'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'for instance, why do we pay so much for beef now? Well, because in the 1970's cattle ranchers decided that they weren't getting enough for their beef (their greed index rouse dramtically) and withheld meat from the markets until they got a much higher price. We are still answering to that move.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they obviously got the idea from the middle eastern oil producers :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the average american could stand to eat less beef than they do now anyway'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'beside the point'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, i missed whatever point you were trying to make'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rechy Arxe: 'the average american can stand to eat, period.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, they got it from far earlier sources.  Henry Ford's nemeses in the unionizers, for example.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, I was pointing out that the cost of things have less to do with supply and demand than with the greed of the producer.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'construction unions are no longer competitive.  they cost too much, and coupled with rising materials costs something's gotta give.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i don't disagree with you there, anaristos... i've never bought the supply and demand argument'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's why the trickle-down theory that Reagan was so hot on does not work, because if you ease the tax burden on the producer all he will do is pocket the difference rather than let it trickle down to the consumer.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'prices are fixed all the time, in most industries'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'no i agree, trickle-down is nonsense... voodoo economics was a good term... reagen got extremely lucky to get in on a good business cycle, and people have been praising his crazy policies ever since'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'of course, ultimately the fault lies for the consumer for acting as if the producer is doing him a favor by ripping him off.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'here's a pie chart of the proposed budget in 2009... it shows what i'm talking about... if you're going to focus on government waste, it doesn't make sense not to start with the biggest piece of the pie, defense at 58%... http://www.thelibertyvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/us-budget-2009.jpg'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the producer raises the price of beef? Fine, let him eat it then, the consumer just walks away and eats something else. Let's see how long the beef price stays high.  But no, the price goes up and the consumer lines up to pay.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'defense isn't waste, especially now'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'there's plenty of waste in defense'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oh? What id defense defending against at the moment?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'more than in all the other pieces combined'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'you can't be that dense anaristos'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'imo, most, if not all, the current military situations that the US armed forces are currently responding to, were artificially induced.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'there are private mercenaries making obscene amounts of money and a lot of it is not necessary'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'low-flying airplanes and nuclear bombs hidden in vending machines'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'most of the weapons manufactured do not need to be'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'says who? you?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'okay, says who not?  you?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it should be obvious to you that Iraq and Afghanistan were products of fiction.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're #1 because we have gear nobody else can deal with effectively, not because we're the best-trained military.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'uh, says the budget sotura'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: '#1 in what respect?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i see, so if the budget dictates, then it must be so...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'yeah, that's generally how it works'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well then we can't cut anything!'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'selling military scout cookies, obviously.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we also volunteer at foreign hospitals as candy-stripers, and support foreign economies by offering cheap labor.  Someone's gotta pay for all that, ya know.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i can't understand how you could possibly believe there's no such thing as waste in military spending... this is extremely well documented'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'i never said that, why are you putting words in my mouth'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'much of what the military does doesn't involve getting into combat in the first place.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, it seemed like you were saying that to me... i thought you said we couldn't cut defense spending at all'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'are you saying that waste is necessary?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'You who, Anaristos?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'anything inevitable is necessary.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'i never said there wasn't waste, whenever government gets involved in anything there is always going to be some degree of waste'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so let's privatize the military. Instant savings. :P'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'speaking of which, i'm looking into buying a handgun soon, any suggestions?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'colt python :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'use a reputable dealer'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'colt python?  hrm....i'll give that a look'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'those trafficking in street pieces generally don't take very good care of them, and you may end up blowing your face off instead of the intruder's'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'lol oh no, i'm not going that route'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'The main point I'm making is that the argument by Republicans, most noticeably recently by Gingrich with his racist food stamp remarks, that the poor are the source of government waste is ludicrous... and if we examine the defense budget carefully, we'll find plenty to cut, and probably have a lot left over to rebuild our economy with... we're working with a very broken model at the moment'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the .357 colt python or the sig sauer P210 9mm parabellum...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'the poor aren't the source, it's the people abusing the system that are the source'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'hrm ok'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, Gingrich's argument is that it's too easy to game the system instead of being one of the necessaries.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and he ought to know :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'exactly... what a hypocrite'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the same thing is happening with the stolen-iphone industry.  The same Apple policies that make it extremely easy and hassle-free to get your malfunctioning apple product fixed is helping to support the thieves.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'hypocrite or not, he would fix the economy, i'm sure of it, hell i believe the last time the budget was balanced was when he was in control of the house....could be wrong on that but i think that's right'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you are naive :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i think that is very very wrong'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'don't get me wrong... i agree there's fraud in welfare, and that needs to be taken care of as well... but it isn't really going to solve any of our fundamental problems, and using it to ignore the big ticket items is nonsense... smoke and mirrors'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'so when was the last balanced budget?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I don't know of a president which will "fix" anything. Vested interests of either party demand that the tax payer be screwed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's pretty sad how we're debating if idiot #1 or idiot #2 is best suited to challenge idiot #3...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'there's no way gingrich would improve the economy'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: '9mm luger any good?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there was never any balanced budgets'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'agreed again, anaristos'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: '"welfare fraud" as a practice is extremely minimal and when studied its normally workers committing fraud not people on welfare'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I wouldn't trust the modern lugger as I would the original.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'ok'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Congress has yet to pass any legislation that forces them to work within the bounds of a defined budget'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the sig sauer is almost flowless. The colt python is probably the best that company makes, imho.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i think democrats (I generally vote democrat) are what Republicans were 40 years ago....none of it is liberal enough for me'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'flawless*'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'and all politicians are run by corporate politics'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'yeah, fixing the pork barrel is a giant task that is in the wrong hands, and always will be, it seems to me'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we won't be literal enough until we have a large army able to operate within its own borders.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'alright, i'll check both those out'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i think pork barrel is less a problem than lobbyists'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the minute you vote in the challenger, they become the incumbent, and the pork barrel is tilted their way'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the government doesn't need liberalism, it needs honesty and a devotion to the tax payer. That has always lacked to some degree or other, never as much as now.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'btw, newt's house passed the balanced budget amendment, went down in senate by one vote'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'liberals have gotten too lazy in their defense of democracy... power has increasingly fallen into the hands of the rich.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'say what you will about Hitler's Nazis, but they really knew how to run things.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'funny because i would include that in my definition of "liberal"...a devotion to the tax payer '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's because professionalism and idealism don't intersect.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'got to fix both special interests and pork barrel, can't fix one without fixing the other'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'been drifting in the wrong direction for many decades already, I think'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'a devotion to the tax payer should be a requirement for anyone in office regardless of party affiliation.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'newt cut all social items to help slash taxes for corporations ....hes full of crap and just read "real change" hes an idiot  hypocrite'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dont consider it a balanced budget just because the numbers add up....all of his policies kill everyone but the upper crust'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'yeah, obama has been awesome'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'most politicians, however, use their positions for personal gain and if anything good astray toward the tax payer, they consider that collateral damage :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'nocturnus, most voting, i've found, to be choosing the lesser of two evils... there's never really a 'good' candidate'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'no, his policies don't choke small businesses and actually make it possible to get out from under the thumb of gov't'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'he better than most but i think the status quo (Obama included) is damaged'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'yeah that's usually right sotura'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama is more efficient a president as Bush.  Only took him half as long to bomb out.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'who's better than most?  obama?  you just lost all credibility ucla'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'why should you have to choose between the lesser of two evils? The voter has tremendous veto power. If no one votes for anyone, the message will be quite loud and clear. Do as we ask or get a day job.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'obama, though he has many flaws, is a lesser evil to any of the current republican candidates'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'lol based on what your opinion or any credible facts'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'that's quite idealistic anaristos... i hope so, but i doubt it'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i've voted third party before myself'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'you have no credible facts to say that obama is 'better than most', that is your opinion'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it's not idealistic, it's jut that the public lacks the balls to wield its power.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'reagan started this crap economy with trickle down economics that caused us to lose most of production industries overseas'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'huh?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'most people think that they must be governed so they just put up with whatever.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i have plenty....tax breaks, health care for starters'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'that's not true at all, trickle down helps businesses, it wouldn't make them move'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'most people are too busy buying ipods and mercedes to pay attention topolitics'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you forgot about Carter.  Carter was the beta version of Obama, and even democrats are embarassed about what he ended up doing.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no it does not'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'yes, trickle down helps businesses, it doesn't help the consumer.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i argue it's idealistic precisely because the public does lack the balls... now, it's not to say that at a special moment in history we won't rise up as one, but those are far and few between...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'trickle down is the single worst policy of this decade'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'absolutely, Ucla.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'ucla is trying to say that trickled down caused businesses to move overseas.....lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, lax tax laws are more at fault. If businesses drifting overseas could not ovoid their tax burden, they would not go.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'nothing trickled down and it enriched corporations with funding to move to cheaper labor ...we are now a service economy without people trained to provide service'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, of the past three decades'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'im a music and tax attorney ....tax laws are a direct result of people like your boy newt'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'more than ideological issues, I think it's more important to break the power of the two parties'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'don't vote, or better yet, vote for yourself :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'wow newt is more powerful than i thought'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'was extremely powerful'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and a discovered crook :) So he should fit in the White House :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i bet im the only one here that has read any of newts books'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i still have a hard time believing newt came back... he was in such disgrace... people have short memories'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pressure the politicians and vote single issue on electoral reform - instant runoff, for example, if implemented will break the major parties once and hopefully for all...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its not memories .....hes the best choice for his cronies'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'as they say, Sotura, money talks and bullshit walks. Those behind newt are the ones to be worried about.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's more the retardedness of such a long primary season'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i agree with electoral reform'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'yes, true'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'It won't happen. There are few ways to keep the structure of the republic.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'riiiiight, let's see, the worst housing situation on record, the first time our credit rating has dropped, the economy in shambles....it's NEWT'S fault!'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'yeah, vote for Obama again'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'ive also owned two small business'.....trickle down helpe major international corporations and no one else'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'oh wait, it's still Bush's fault right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the tea party did the credit rating'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'the tea party??? lol!'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'if you remove the electorial college, for instance, the US will cease to be a republic in fact, no matter what it calls itself. That might have tremendous repercussions on how the states are bound to the union.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'yes, weren't you paying attention?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'each region is full of different types of voters, and even things as petty as a good old-fashion mudfight is going to fatigue the hell out of people enough to turn them off of candidates.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'the tea party's fault!!!  they have so much power!'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i  think it started with reagan...we demolished the middle class, taxes are lower than any time in the last 25 years and we are losing jobs'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the tea party members of congress who refused to go along with any deals'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'never mind that obama had the house, senate and himself for two full years'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'that's actually not true'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it started prior to WW2'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't have to abolish the electoral college. Doing so will not change the party dynamics much anyway.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'what's not true?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we hit the depression, freaked out, and started throwing money around just for the sake of throwing money around.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'thats a laugh....half the democrats are republicans aligned to the same corporate overlords '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'the republican party has a united caucus, but the democrats never have that'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Coalition'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'wow, people are soooo willing to give obama a pass, they make up any excuse in the book for him, what a lucky guy'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its called hate'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they gave Bush (both of them) a pass, so why not Obama?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'lol a pass? bush burned down the house with his made up wars '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'who gave bush a pass?  are you freaking kidding?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'no, but on the credit rating crisis, it was the tea party republicans who refused to go along with boehner and caused the drop... at least that's what i heard on all the news channels at the time'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's basically the same response for any major crisis, and boils down to one entity saying to the other "what are you going to do to fix this?!"'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'at least that's what i heard from the media!!!  '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'and then they dole out money to their buddies and go on laughing'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the fact that he was in office at all was a pass. The corrupt SC created  law to have him elected. That's a pass.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'it's the tea party's fault....unreal'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i completely agree with that anar'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the tea party is a joke'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'no it isn't, it's uber powerful, ask sotura'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'where do you get your news nocturnus, sitting in committee?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the tea party did not cause the credit drop, but because they were able to derail the usual "throw more money at it" process we fell past the point of no return.  Regardless of what the tea party was doing, our credit rating was going to drop on Obama's watch.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'ron paul is the best politician the republicans have he fooled a lot of young liberals into thinking a rich white man from texas cares about them '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'nice, class warfare and race warfare, the handbook of the extreme left'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the credit rating measure the probability of default, or is supposed to, at any rate'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'you should be proud'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'ron paul's net worth is lower than my parents''
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'default is impossible until tax rates are 100%'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the only real risk of default comes from the government deciding, for whatever reason, not to pay up.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'and we had tea party members of congress arguing we SHOULD DEFAULT.... how is that not a crazy argument? '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'then your parents are in the 1%'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'actually they aren't'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'maybe because they were sick of throwing money at a black hole?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I don't think you understand what the 1% means'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'then your facts are screwed ...i just read his book and he admitted to being in that status with his net worth'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'he used as a means to say that i am that rich but i want to do whats right for everyone (which isnt true)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hence, the only good reason to downgrade the credit rating of a country that issues debt in its own currency is if its government is crazy enough to default just because they felt like it.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'to be in the 1% you need to make over 450k/year'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no you do not .....its based on wealth not income'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oh :) the inverse idea of the 99 percentile :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'Agreed Sonshi, we were downgraded because we had crazy people in congress saying the government shouldn't pay its bills.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'is accumulated assets not income if you make 450k and spend 450k you are not in the 1%'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'and they stopped responsible members of government from doing their jobs'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'wow are you gullible'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'that probably helped Occupy Wall Street get started right there, if it wasn't going to already... it's doubling down on the mess, it's the move of a crazy gambler who doesn't understand their responsibility, they should all be thrown out of office'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the way they were going to "pay the bills" was to raise the debt ceiling so they didn't have to pay the bills.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kotty Piip Dashiell: 'The best way to tell whether or not a politician is lying is to check and see whether or not his lips are moving.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the debt ceiling has been raised multiple times over the last 10 years ..... its normal for them to do it...whether its good is antoher story'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kotty Piip Dashiell: 'Every one of them should be removed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, debt in advanced countries is usually "paid" by rolling them over'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'everyone in position to do something about it knew at least a year and a half or more in advance that the downgrade was inevitable regardless of what was or could have been done.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we are a debt country and paying the price now....very similar to what happened to japan'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that alone won't cause a deterioration in credit rating. See Japan.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that is what backs the US currency. The debt.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'it was not inevitable... they were negotiating every day for weeks before it happened... there were feasible agreements made, and those idiots threw themselves in front of the train'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'years, Sotura.  Why do you think things got so crazy around budget time?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i don't think any of them understood what a debt ceiling was'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'lowering the credit rating is ridiculous there is zero chance the US defaults'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i'm talking here about the idiot tea partiers'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the very presence of a debt ceiling impairs the credit rating slightly.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we would have a lot less debt if we didnt spend crazy on military'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'maybe if it was hard to change the debt ceiling....but thats like having a budget but having a trust fund on the side worth billions....'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'hanslanda, it's not like it hadn't happened before, i know that... but it was completely irresponsible for them to say no, we shouldn't raise it, let's make the economy worse so we can blame it on obama, and that's exactly what they did'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or welfare or education or pretty much anything that started out as a Great Depression program.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no chance you are bankrupt bc of that artificial numer'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'funny the republicans didnt have any probs raising the debt ceiling for bush to hand over money to Halliburton '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the problem we have is the public.  We're saying two very conflicting things: "get our debt in control or else" and "touch my handouts at your own peril".'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I'm not. I want taxes to go up.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/07/only-one-democratic-country-besides-america-has-a-debt-ceiling/'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'who is we in that, hanslanda?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you may have touched on the problem with democracy in general , idiots vote , on mass'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'not sure what "handouts" we are talking about .....tax breaks are handouts that amount to way more than unemployment insurance that you pay into'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'en masse'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the we is the people in congress we expect to fix things.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'that is the problem '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'and now we confuse people more with fake news and increased work load and keeping up with the JOneses'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might be better if capital gains were taxed as regular income, with an exception for the primary owner occupied residence.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'not "might"'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if they fix the problem, we lose a lot of things we take for granted and are at risk of unintended consequences.  If they don't fix the problem, we force them out of office and put new faces in who think they can fix the problem.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i agree about capital gains but primary residence is not taxed.....you have a large exemption if you have lived in that home for 2 years '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that should push up revenues quite a bit, from all the romneys who have to pay more than double...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'does any tax reform run the risk of driving those taxed more heavily out of the country , we ave that problem here with taxation on mining- reducing our comparative advantage'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'define "run out of the country" for personal income?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no because if you want us citizenship you are taxed on your worldwide income'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if they want to live in somalia and start their business there...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'jobs go overseas, or are simply lost due to liquidation'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no factory, no taxes.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'jobs don't go overseas because of personal income taxes'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'they dont crack down on that though because the only people who are super rich or international corps go out of the country'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you can lower corporate taxes and increase capital gains and personal income tax'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cool, perhaps not the best parallel'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they go overseas simply to avoid paying taxes or wages.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we have some of the lowest corporate tax rates around'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'ehhh...not meaningfully'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'and you can not avoid us tax if you are a us citizen or corp....you get a credit for any tax paid outside the country but still owe the same % here'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Google and the like still funnel all their money through countries like Ireland'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and, as I pointed out before, the savings due to the tax rate is not transferred in any part to the consumer, it is simply pocketed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'double taxation, heh'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'that is correct the savings are invested to create more wealth or pocketed rarely spread out'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its not double tax you get a credit'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so they DON'T owe the same percentage here?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yes their tax liabilty is calculated on there total worldwide income income and then any dollars paid in taxes outside the country offsets that...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder how many people would seriously want to move to another country and renounce their citizenship just to avoid personal income taxes.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'though you'd have to wait 18 months to see any benefit...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'corporations are really what destroyed us....a seperate entity that takes my liability and givs me tons of write offs'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'nobody moves .....you hire good cpa's and hide your money with tax shelters just like wall street ....the IRS is not sophisticated enough to catch up'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it should be possible to eliminate most of the largest loopholes. It's not as if they're dumber than the tax agencies in other countries'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'goss and never take mine , I'm new =P'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz mis chan'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the fact that the loopholes exist is telling in itself.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the key is that the langauge is vague and you would spend years arguing it out in court in the meantime i settle it at a huge gain to me and in the meantime ive moved on to 10 new tax shelters you dont know about'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is there pressure Not to close tax loopholes ? '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'agreed...its made for the man by the man'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's something that lawmakers are complicit in...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yes that is the biggest pressure in the country'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'this whole talk of tax reform is, of course, contingent on the legislators actually wanting to raise revenues and close the loopholes...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'tax breaks are corporations bread and butter....romney pays a lower tax rate then anyone of us'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which would probably require electoral reforms like instant runoff...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'sonshi said it right and since lobbyists make sure that will never happen they will not make it happen'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is there a way to make some form of independant tax commission to audit the laws ? are there any independant gov branches there ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh, they were all appointed by some politician at some point anyway...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no....its all based on checks and balances between the three branches of gov but they of course are al one and the same'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, it is not clear that the US tax laws are constitutional, so an independent commission might also be unconstitutional...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'lol....that is not true'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'thats been well settled in law'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'and the constitution'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a pity they can't legislate to make tax shelters a breach of national security given that it impacts on military funding .. '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'was that wesley snipes argument?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the constitution of the US expressly forbids tithes, which is what a personal income tax is.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'they can but they wont'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yet the later day saints tithe and survive on it ? how do they get round the constitution ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'where do they forbid tithes?  they allow taxes:'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: '"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the 16th amm specifically allows us to tax'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'sotura just wrote it out'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well that's not even the amendment, that's article 1, section 8, powers of congress'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: '16th amm has similar but less strong lang'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'here it is: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'that's the 16th amend.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'there you go....thanks for pulling it up'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well i wanted to search tithe... didn't see it mentioned'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cool , it did seem a lil silly it was unconstitutional to tax '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i wouldn't be surprised they were arguing about it... weren't taxes one of the big arguing points setting things off... the boston teaparty and whatnot'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it is not unconstitutional to tax but the income tax is only "constitutional" because the government double-talk.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, the rallying cry was 'no taxation without representation' right?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'what was taxed was a huge problem but that was based on english non rep'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'which it should be here again lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'and arguably, now, we've got representation... i think it's a pretty good argument that representation is failing us though, so that could be what leads to the next revolution, if enough people feel that way strongly enough'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the US is a declining empire'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the US constitution, following the precept that the US was a republic, expected taxation to issue forth from property owners.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its the same they "had" representation but you gained access by wealth'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'then those with all the assets should pay all the taxes is what that sounds like to me'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'if I work for a living, there is no conceptual difference between working for wages and barter. Barter is not taxable so why should wages be?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'there is a very large difference.. loans and tax basis prevent you from being taxed via barter'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i get what you are trying to say but its not the same...if we bartered we would pay the gov in furs or whatever lol'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the irs says you've got to report income gained through barter'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yes but you have a tax basis in the item so assuming your item declined in value and you traded for equal value you would have no "income" ( i.e. you would not profit from bartering)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so you are saying that working for wages as opposed to demanding rice, beans, and wheat, is not the same?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and you don't profit from working for wages either.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'I am saying that items you barter with have a tax basis because they were acquired and thus you need to make profit to pay tax'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'in the same way if you're working as an independent contractor you can write off business expenses, is it any different?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you would have to show that you are being paid more than what your work is worth, but as in barter, that's impossible to assess.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'you business expense is your tax basis...what you put in to get the item....what you spend on your business is not profit nad thus not taxes'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and if it were the case that it can be shown that your work is worth less than what you are paid, the only the difference should be taxable.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'so it's not market value of what you're bartering, it's cost to produce?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its cost to produce vs cost sold for....'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'both are artificial, Ucla.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'or cost to acquire'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i agree all these concepts are artifical'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'and yet, important to understand if we don't want to end up in the hoosegow'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'thats why its complicated "income" has strict definitions and they carved out income from capital gains to have a lower tax rate....guess who bnefits the most from that'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'in the earlier days, serf only worked for barter, so they were demanded by the fief to pay a tithe. Much the same as they are now.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'tithe = direct tax :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'serfs were generaly indentured ...that was a form of slavery (which I would argue still exists in some of the lowest wage jobs)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and what is different now?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'income taxes are not headcount taxes or even flat taxes. Not in civilised countries anyway.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i don't know if i was reading the topic wrong... http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html -- it seems to imply that both sides of a bartered exchange will be taxed, and can only reduce (maybe) the burden by their costs'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'I am not indentured I am not beholden to a debt and required to work and live a certain way'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's arguable, Sonshi. They are bracketed taxes, much the same thing. if you fall in a bracket (if you are part of the head count)  you pay x.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the costs are the tax basis'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'sorry, not Sonshi :) Sotura :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi walks around in the room, looking very confused.
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'everything is taxed but if the net income result of a barter is zero profit no income was gained and zero tax is due'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there is a train of thought that suggests social welfare was introduced to stop barter and bring everyone into the "white" economy, not sure the gov likes barter that much '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, Ucla. So where is the profit if I barter my labor for x dollars?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'wow, that's interesting tzadkiel, who's saying that?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we need welfare ......its pretty well accpted in economics that supply and demand in a job market is never perfectly efficient and thus there must be some unemployment'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'was part of my yr 11 social studies '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol aka a lefty teacher throing ideas out there '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'your education, gas to get to work, the materials that you take to the job minus the amount you are given in goods above that amount'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'thats pretty well accepted in most everything i have read including stuff from U of chicago economics (repub think tank)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'if you bartered to zero your incentive would be not to work'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'again, an artificial justification. The dollar holder gets to indicate its "costs" not the labor producer.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'huh?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the laborer can argue successfully that he works at a lost when he's paid in wages.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but, of course, he will be ignored.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'yes, it's an upside down system'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'in more ways than one'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'I disagree in general but for some people i would say thats very true'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'selling labor, how do you account the costs?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'and thus no incentive to work .....'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'for most workers, they don't get to deduct any cost of labor, no?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'if a person has to ride public transportation for 5 hours a day to get to his job, how much does his wages cover that loss?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'to not have to calculate it directly we are given a tax rate and a standard dedcution'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'but on the other hand, deducting it can be a real pain in the blank'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'everyone gets a standard deduction'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'he's not doing anything that will return anything from the payer.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i see'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think you can claim those sorts of things here , public transport etc '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'not sure what you mean...the lowest job workers that might be very true'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the employer does not travel to the employee and yet he gets credit.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the employee does not get paid while he's getting to the job and he's not allowed to declare a loss of income while he's traveling.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'but i would say that by your argument corporations and business owners create welfare by paying so low a wage their is no incentive to work...if thats the case they should pay for that social cost and not spread it out'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there is always incentive to work :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its factored into your standardized deduction'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'no matter what the wages are. history proves that :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no there is not....'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'there is an incentive to survive'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'thus crime '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'if that were the case, lack of incentive, then many companies with horrendous pay records would have gone under. Companies such as Walmart :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the worst war we ever created was the war on drugs ....most costly with worst results'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but the truth is that any income is better than no income at all, so the employee will put up with almost anything.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'no because we create welfare which says you have to work to get it ...thus we enslave the lowest rung'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there is no war on drugs, only the appearance that there is one. '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'if you make the same from welfare and from walmart then people would not work...so its really a tiny bit better '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'thats my point...we spend all the money but no results its fake'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'deb we have some form of work for welfare here , the argument is that ppl not working are not "work ready" either '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'so where do you consider you guys on the political scale? conservative, liberal?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, if people refused to work for Walmart, it would fold. Most employees lack the courage to suffer for a cause for which they might not gain concretely.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we create a whole population of those people by making them felons they will never hae a legit shot to make a decent income'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'socialist-liberal-free market'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, we are ignoring a big factor in unemployment. Population pressure. Though I am not willing to dip into that at the moment :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I take it there is no min wage in US and not much of a labor movement ?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i would agree but im dont believe in free markets because ti dont think they exist'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'of course they don't :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'population should drive up the demand as well and balance out if we were efficient'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no minimum wage at the federal level, it's set state-by-state and if I recall Hawaii just upped theirs to $10/hour.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'the labor movement is under attack... there are minimum wages'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dont think religious orgs should be tax free'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'as far as Im concerned $10 is min wage.....'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, mismanagement of resources has a serious impact on that, Ucla. There is no profit in efficient management of resources, simply because then income would be simply part of the standard deviation :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'if its under a true living wage its a min wage'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wow ! I think ours is $17.40/hour , less for kids though'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'where's that at?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Australia '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think yours and our dollar is at parity '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'there is a federal minimum wage in us, but lots of exceptions'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'and lots of state levels also'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i would disagree....efficient management would profit against innefficency...theres no incentive on results american corps profit at the top regardless of performance only the workers pay'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'federal us is $7.25'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think the 2 loopholes to pay lower here are employ kids or apprentices , not so sure about the apprenticeship scheme though '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'you sure? thought it was $8.75'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'either way unless your cost of living is alot lower than ours how do ppl survive on a min wage ?!'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'or hire illegal immigrants...always makes me laugh the people that seem to complain the most about immigration are the same power players that hire them'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '17.4 australian dollars? What's the unemployment rate like in australia?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'what state?'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if it's $8.75, all of Missouri is in violation since I doubt any exception would allow a state to ignore a federal mandate to pay even less.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'they dont....they work two jobs, they live 2 families together its bad'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '4- 7 % unemployment '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, no wonder'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think 5% is the nat average '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'if you're below the poverty line you'll qualify for some assistance as well, possibly'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i think thats about right'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'some states are lower than federal'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'australia is pretty well run, would've expected 3% without that minimum wage...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'you have to make less than $20k for a family of four for the poverty level'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but 5%'s fine, I guess, with welfare'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, here's wikipedia on it, you can doublecheck elsewhere, right?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: '20K is actually almost not enough for a family of 1 :)'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yeah 5% to 6% is about what i think economists think is good for the economy'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i agree'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lots of beggars in american cities...'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i make a whole shit ton more than that'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we have alot of ppl that are welfare dependant/ or just don't want to work making up that 5% imo - lol and I'd get shot for saying that in some circles here '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if they can't do anything worth 17.4 aud an hour, it wouldn't be surprising if they're unemployed.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'if your option is to make the same amount working or not working then i would rather you not work ....your life is gonna be hard no matter what and at least you can give your kids a shotbeing around'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I don't see why? There are always people willing to take advantage of the system, whether they are welfare recipients or corporate CEOs'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'let me put it this way, the amount of money it costs the government for one person's fraud is less that what a corporation has to skim to pay for a CEO's golden parachute.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'my ex was one of the top non profit attys in CA and her specialty was welfare....she is involved in policy creation...alsmot all of the fraud was found has been workers creating faks ssns or using dead peole not recipients'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in some communities here unemployment runs into its 3-4th generation - without any form of education they are largely unemployable '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i agree with that 100% '
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so eliminating both ends of the equation would be good for the economy. But, obviously, we recent the welfare fraud, but not the corporate one.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'its the same here but people call them lazy'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'exactly ...i agree anar...to me its no different but the corporate form is so much more costly'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the ones making billions off corporate fraud would rather we concentrate on drop-in-the-bucket welfare fraud.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'if you do your homework you will see that most of our truly wealthy in this country have become so rich with government interfence....'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yep its all bate and switch....i feel its the same with religion'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'it's a bit diff here , one example a place called Kintore 500km NW of Alice Springs , Population 700-900 and I'll guess that about 5 of the locals actually work , for the rest they exist on welfare and have done so since we colonised the place.'
T3/r5/2012-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'maybe the mistake was in the colonization :) Some people resent being colonized :>'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'people act like living on welfare is some glamorized life.....its all misrepresented and sad'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'name one person who says living on welfare is glamorous'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well they have to live with the laws of the land now since they have lost the art of living off it .. just stuck in the assimilation process imo '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'nobody chooses welfare who has options....the option here is to make the same amount at some shitty job'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'newt gingrich'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'bull'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i got a buddy who brags about how much money the government gives him'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'and therein lies the problem'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'lol he just said we need to teach blacks to live on getting jobs rather than food stamps lol'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'exactly, corporate welfare is the real fraud'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'canadian government though, so not sure how relevant that is to this conversation'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my government gives me a few hundred dollars every now and then...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol those in the drug industry here are mostly on welfare , lower levels anyway i don't n=know anyone higher than that '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, they give all of us a few hundred dollars every now and then...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lol, Amazon's shipping cocaine in textbooks now.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'haha what they "give" us is our own money :)'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'just like the welfare paying off people not to barter argument?  we could argue the government's paying off people to look the other way on the really egregious stuff...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i wouldnt argue i think thats true'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'nah, it's just an argument'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we can find all the crack dealers but not the importers?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'but it'd be interesting to study'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they tax the rich more, and hands everyone a more or less fixed sum back. The poorer you are, the larger a percentage of your income you're getting...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dont think its an argument....tax breaks are people lobbying people to look the other way'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the crappier your flat is, the more you get too...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tzadkiel  recommends "Total Synthisis II" as a humor us book to import drugs with
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the tax burden has always been with the poor - I remember a cartoon depicting exactly that , and the cartoon was from the french revolution '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'just read dickens .....industrial revolution all over again '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i guess i'm not being clear... i mean to say something like, does receiving government assistance make the receiver more likely to be complacent about government corruption?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'noone like to bite the hand that feeds ?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'sort of'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dont think so...i think it creates a helplessness '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'yeah, but that can lead to complacency too, no?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah the whole "Hand out " not "hand up" argumant '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'directly or indirectly... is the government buying its way out of the next revolution?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think you are right '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dont think if you asked any person on welfare if they would rather have that or be well off they would be well off but if thats not an option they maybe they are complacent but i would call it helplessness'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'once homeostasis is achieved 90% of the pop just want to keep it , damn the consequences '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'made up figure'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i think we are a declining empire just like all the other historical ones....everyone here thinks they need to make $100k look at real houswives of orange county and all that crap'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep it is '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '78% of all statistics is...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'or 77% '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'well, i mean complacent in the sense of not struggling, or struggling less'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '90 % = (imo a large percent)'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I like the idea of making 100k, because it means I can do things like only work every other year'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'ahh yeah i would agree to that....i dont like the word complacent though it implies lazy and i think thats a misconception'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'hehe every other year?!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'yes'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Fiendish you don't want a nest egg too ? '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'i'm not talking about lazy, although if you think the oppressed have a moral obligation to resist, i suppose you could make that argument as well'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'to do what with?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'im an atty in LA ...$100k is barely getting by if thats what you make'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'retire?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well I figure if I get cancer or something I'll get a better shot of surviving with more $'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I can retire fine even with working every other year at 100k'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'it all depends on how much you spend on stupid things'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'that i agree with but most americans spend a lot on stupid stuff ...also where you live in the US'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Boston'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'interesting point... was marx wrong because he forgot about laziness?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: '$100k in Boston?!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I don't quite understand the exclamation marks'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dont think so...it seems everyone knows we need to have some unemployment but yet we villify those unemployed'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I can get by fine on maybe 15k in philadelphia (or even 5k if I really had to)... but at some point I'd like to have a family.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'why do we "need to have some unemployment"?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I don't want to have children'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'kids will probably cost lots to raise'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i have a hard time believing you can live very comfortable in boston on $100k'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'then your reality is completely fucked up'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'praise the unemployed , for without them wages would rise and so would inflation =P'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I can get by comfortably by spending 20-25k per year, and that includes travel'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'depends on whether you really must have that five bedroom in the middle of the city or not, I guess.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'supply and demand and inefficent economies.....we are supposed to be the best economy ever and have never had zero unemployment'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some people are fine with a one bedroom on the outskirts.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'and a LOT of restaurants'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home, you can get a new four bedroom flat for under half a million...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i dunno my wives best friend is in Boston and we go regulary rent alone seemed pretty high let alone buying a house'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'rent is not /that/ high'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: '/h 10'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: '$1350/mo split between me and my girlfriend isn't scandalous rent'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'thing I dislike about american housing is that so much of it is old and run-down...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yeah well your income is a lot higher if you factor her in '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the nice, new places are pretty expensive...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'why shouldn't I factor her in? if I weren't living with her I'd be paying exactly the same amount on rent by living with someone else'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and just as low-quality.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: '100k is about $6k per month a mortgage is about with taxes and ins is $3k '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'a mortgage in boston is stupid. economics professors at harvard rent.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'im saying that your household income is higher.....your not living alone on $20k'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'she doesn't pay for me'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'my expenses are still my expenses. if we split food and rent, my part is still the same no matter what'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'a car and ins is $400 - 500.....utilities are $400 -500 and if you have kids ...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'she doesnt pay for you but she splits the costs of the housing'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'utilities are like $25/mo'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home a lot of people borrow from their retirement accounts to buy houses rather than from banks...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you're not getting it. if it weren't her I'd be in a smaller space paying the same amount'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'do you share a room with her?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'let me give you an example of what I mean'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'what happens when your 70 and need someone to live and help you out....but cant afford to rent?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... it's the same if you would've split it with someone else anyway, but half the space usually costs more than half. At least over here.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'before I moved in with her, I was sharing one floor of a house in cambridge with 2 of my friends. my share of the rent was $750/mo'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'maybe a bit less'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i think i get i get it....but im not in college anymore....'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'my dad is 70 and I don't have to help him out and I make more money than he does. What makes you think I'll need help when I'm 70?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'the law of avgs.....'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you forget that I'm saving on the cost of children'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'that's basically the cost of a house'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'We took care of my grandma in her older years.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i understand where your coming from...but one problem and your in trouble....'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'not really'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i took care of my mom amd now my grandparents'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'everyone has problems. people with far less than I have have far more problems and do fine'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'if you need three people to afford a place to live then i would say yes'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'need?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'She lived in my room while I slept on the couch for about 3 years'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'who said anything about need?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'so you can afford $1350 a month rent in boston making $20k  a year?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I said spending 20k a year'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'and yes, actually'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'quit hoarding and support the economy already!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'but it would involve far more trips to haymarket than I make now'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'lol'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what's haymarket anyway?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i give you props for being frugal....'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'it's a local thing. if you're not from boston you wouldn't understand'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'http://www.yelp.com/biz/haymarket-boston'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'weekend ultra cheap produce market'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ah'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'basically overflow from grocery stores'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well I think I'm gonna work myself stupid when I finish uni and then once I have a good stash of $ settle back , grow my own food, drive something that runs on cooking oil and solar power , sounds like a plan =P'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i like that plan'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'if you're still in school then you might want to aim for something electric so that you don't stink like frenchfries all the time'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm too lazy to travel far. I usually just visit the stores between my apt and my dept.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we are very frugal too'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol good call Fiend'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'was more of a generalisation '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'with luck by the time you're ready to do that plan electric vehicle infrastructure will be decent'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm not that young ! I start Uni this year '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'so youre 18'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still a kid then!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'or 17'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'so 4 years of that. grad school maybe? then how many years of work?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'that's a while'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'haha im much older than that'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '19 - long story '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's this guy in my dept who was a minor when he started his phd'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'maybe 20 years work , idk '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wonder if I should go into finance...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol so I expect to be feeding chickens around 45-50 yeas old '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'what would you do in finance?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'quant, I guess'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'again , figuratively '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'be like mitt romney. make money making money'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'seems to be the primary private sector thing for those in our dept who can't teach'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'would you be doing it just for the money?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and I suck at teaching.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I may have sarted a cult by then =P'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'i would be doing it because I suck at teaching, probably, if I did it.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'smaller funds would probably be preferable...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the goldman sachs type might end up abetting all sort of bad stuff'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sorts'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you can fund my cult then =P'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'im down with the cult'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we'll base it on Norfolk Island so we don't have to pay taxes . be our own tax haven :)'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'quants might not make all that much though, the one time I looked up a fund which was advertising, they were offering 120k plus unspecified signing and other bonuses'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, those might be large...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still, it's many multiples of my curent stipend...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'hehe your probably close to $200k with bonus and a couple yearly raises that plenty of money'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still, academia is more fun...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'then teach :)'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'except when the students complain that you suck.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'haha then dont suck!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wish it were that simple!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol ever wanna rile up a teacher , "Those that can , do. Those that can't , teach it instead" =P'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i work for a huge music company you make less money than at a large firm but quality of life is awesome'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'i love the trade off'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, those that here it too much here are apt to quit and earn 3-10 times the pay elsewhere...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I know a prof back home who quit and went into banking because the cash they were dangling in front of him finally grew too large to resist. And presumably, his students got too annoying too.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I swear I wasn\t one of em !'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ack, my typo rate increases pretty quickly past midnight'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my fingers just find the wrong keys , they are not typos , just fingeros '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'after over 6 years in the us, my typos are also becoming more american, somehow. At least, it feels more american to me.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'where are you from'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'singapore'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'where are you living in us'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'philly'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'used to be ithaca, for four years'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'ahh my wife was just in philly for the softball world series'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'singapore's nice, well, i saw it for one day ten years ago'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'hah'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh, home looks so much different after just 6-7 years...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'always digging stuff up and knocking things down'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they've put in more anti-global warming measures too.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, coping measures, I mean'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'my wife is peruvian and i am mixed irish, german and mexican....peru and mexico have changed dramatically from our childhoods ....interesting to observe'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'preparing for eventual 2m rise in sea levels and all that.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, lots of development there, I wager'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'went to mexico once...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'went to see the chichen itza and all that'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yeah development and hardship'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'very cool'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given the uncertain times ahead, it could be a struggle for countries still in the midst of development'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'we are going to machu pichu next year'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'richer countries can throw money and raise walls around their coastlines...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ucla: 'yeah....as long as they avoid the imf and world bank or privatizing their economies to foreignors on there own they many should do fine'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's going to be amusing, in a black way, if asia completes its climate defences and the us asks for emergency help and they say... no!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'scottish independence?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'I hear the Indiana legislature is about to pass a law requiring Creationism to be taught in science classes.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Agent Phillip: 'really?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'SB89 -- teach the controversy.  Because evolution is "just a theory."'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Agent Phillip: 'I hate when people misunderstand the word theory'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'they really should invest in a bunch of those tshirts... those are wonderful'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'T-shirts saying "Let me jump off this cliff, since gravity is 'just a theory.'"'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'opposition is apparently mounting rapidly though, as it sorta slipped through until now.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'theory sounds too liberal for them... all these subversive sounding things like number theory, general theory of relativity...'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'Good.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Agent Phillip: 'agreed'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'no, no, these tshirts: http://controversy.wearscience.com/'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Number Theory: Just a theory!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Its sponsor Dennis Kruse told the Indianapolis Star (January 22, 2012), "I believe in creationism ... Just because there are constitutional concerns doesn't mean you don't try to get something done you believe in."'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'this country really took a turn for the worse when they stopped teaching the flat earth controversy'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it'll get thrown out in court anyway so really just a stupid exercise'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'I just hope that the same people who want evolution to be presented as a controversal theory believe that capitalism should be presented the same way.  '
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'capitalism isn't a theory, it's a philosophy/practice'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'be careful what you wish for... they might!'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'presenting evolution as a controversial theory is only their tactic because they don't dare present it as complete falsehood, lies, and corrupting of the youth, which is what many do believe'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'True, but there are theories associated with capitalism that actually ARE controversal.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'I would hate to be treated by a doctor who doesn't believe in evolution.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'Doctor, I got a flu shot last year, should I get another one this year?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: '"No, one flu shot will protect you for the rest of your life."'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Well, actually, many of the people who are say MDs will say that they believe in change over time, just not of the degree necessary to actually produce different species.'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'only if you die from something else before the next flu?'
T3/r6/2012-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'teach the controversy!  moon BASE!'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'testing testing 1 2 3'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Stomp: 'are you making a speech? *runs for cover*'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just making sure this chan was working '
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't, leave it alone'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dammit you mentioned Nazi's and broke it !'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gofer it, dokkar'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rechy Arxe jumps in to make a kanye west move until he sadly realizes that there was in fact no speech about to be made....
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yay for ACTA!'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama don't need no congress to get his SOPA powers'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, didn't obama say he would veto sopa?'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'sure did'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ACTA is why he was going to veto them'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'by thwarting congress, or even better getting them to flee the bills like they did, he can completely bypass them by entering into an executive agreement (the treaty process requires a 2/3rds vote by congress, at this time one already spooked by tech resistance).'
T3/r6/2012-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's quite the brilliant strategist'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'local weather. does anyone want to compete? http://i.imgur.com/jAfFx.jpg'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rabidrabbit: 'got an idea but think it might be dumb again.. but i like it - split xp 1. comes from time spent fighting mobs 2.goes to pracs gained - the stronger mobs, the more pracs. hm?'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AP2BjpIYJLw'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bah, she can't pronounce diebold :P'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'Obama'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'not a good way to start a debate. you're already losing.'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'Not good at what he does.'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'debate over'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'fact.'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feith: 'obomber?'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'There is really nothing to argue about.'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'Monsanto?'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos perks up, something must have grabbed his attention.
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Monsanto? Excedrin and bullets?'
T3/r6/2012-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archangel Trihex: 'and geneticaly altered plants :-)'