T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You never owned a slave, but you certainly will have profited from their legacy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'here'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Slavery is assumed to have arisen no earlier than 11,000 years ago, or ca. 9000BCE'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The earliest references to it are far later, however, no earlier than 2500BCE'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'From Sumeria and Babylon, most notable the Code of Hammurabi'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '2 days 'til the 1st presidential debates. This should be interesting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I am going to be surprised if the major economic problems are discussed'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney knows that he can't use the Economy Card because Obama will just counter with his Trap Card - "What the FUCK is YOUR plan then, Mittens?!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and I gather the questions have been known for a long time, so both candidates get most of the teleprompter effect..'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think Romney's the least forthcoming candidate I've seen for POTUS since I started following U.S: politics back in 2000.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We know next to nothing about how he plans on running his presidency besides his talking points. No specifics. If Obama doesn't nail him on that, then he's officially incompetent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'in australia all political debate is essentially "At least I'm not the other guy"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan yesterday on the Romney plan for the economy: Explaining it would take too long. So I just won't mention a single specific thing about it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i agree what we were taught in school is not the same  the war was over cotten'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US civil war was fought for and against state rights over federal'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you also think Obama is secretly a Muslim and that Neil Armstrong never walked on the Moon?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'No I see him as a non citizen'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '>>because he is black.  You didn't have to say it for it to be there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'only becuase i looked at his up bringing'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'no actualy  if you study him you will see he spent the majoer part of his life in ondonniesai'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'where is this country? it sounds AWESOME'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'move 20 miles north of singapore'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If by "the major part" you mean 10 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '10 years out of 51. Totally "the major part" of his life. McCain and Romney spent several years not living in the U.S. as well, AFAIR.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'then he  moved where ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Honolulu.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'remember he was not a manmer of the usa in this point'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'manmer? your spelling is interfering with your communication, because I have no idea what you said.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck is a mamner?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'member'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how was he not a "member" of the U.S. at that time?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how the FUCK does that mean that he spent "the major part" of his life not living in the U.S. when he's lived 41 out of 51 of his years in the U.S:?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'also, from what I can see, he was out of the US for 1st grade-4th grade. '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'he grew up for his first ten years in indonesia'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'how does that make him american'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, I was sloppy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i can remember first grade'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'seems his mother was living in hawaii until after kindergarten. '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He lived for only 5 years in Indonesia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'correct'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'Under the theory that time moves slower when you're younger because you perceive each year as a percentage of your total lifespan, the first ten years could be psychologically considered a significant portion of his life'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He lived the first 5 years of his life in the Hawaii, 5 in Indonesia and the rest of his life in the U.S:'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'moved there in 1967, back in 1975'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'TOTALLY makes him an Indonesian!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '1971, can't type'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'yet  she was 3 monthes shy of that law'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the fuck does that NOT make him an "American"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What fucking law?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there are a hell of a lot of american citizen kids who've spent more than that living outside the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'so we all say ok we let it slide becuase he is black'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'll give you points for being creative about your Birtherism, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What fucking law?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no, we let it slide because american law doesn't have you lose your citizenship if you go to school overseas'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i say we should be more what does the constitution say'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Constitution says you can't move overseas for 7 years?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'he slid under a wire he is actualy not ligitamit'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'he never grew up in no hood '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'he grew up in asia'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you actually suffer from dyslexia or are you just a redneck?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'correction: he grew up in honolulu, then indonesia, then back to honolulu.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wasn't aware that the U.S: constitution said "You have to have been raised from birth to adulthood in the U.S. to be considered a natural-BORN citizen".'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Problem is, Yuna, you are talking to someone who has never read the US constitution.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'better look into that more he did not  grow up in the states they lived in  asua'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think you'd better look into that more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'he lived in honolulu w/his mother and grandparents until after kindergarten.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I suppose we shouldn't have expected any better from someone who claims the U.S. civil war was fought over COTTON.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'you are wrong he graduated  fron  indonisua'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'he did not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'thats where all his schooling was'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'indonisua'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I graduated from Antarctica. I am now eligible to attend Moon.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If by "all" you mean "7 fucking years":'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not even 7.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I spent, like, 5 months in Vietnamese kindergarten. My schooling is totally 100% Vietnamese.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'google it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'kindergarten in honolulu, 1-4 grades in indonesia, 5-12 grade in honolulu where he graduated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I would say a person who has not experienced another country to be unfit to rule their own.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i knw i am right '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I did, you apparently did not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bush is the Queen of England. Discuss.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe we've got this all wrong. Maybe Jaxerel is arguing that Honolulu is in fact a part of Indoensia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Insulting (?) the entire state of Hawaii to boot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'he graduated from punahou high school in hawaii. You can find this information readily on the internet.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i will say this last election we had what compared to a jerry springer show'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Majic, Jaxerel thinks the U.S. civil war was fought over cotton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama#Indonesia'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just treat him how you treat Chemosh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'and here we need actual leaders and they still fail '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'w have a war gone on  Obama wants all of us to forget it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'we ned leaders'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Obama was in Indonesia from 1967 to 1971, That is IT'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. We ned flanders.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'hididdly-ho, indonesios'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'what's flanders goona do? screech like a girl and whine?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'where was he before that'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ages 6-10.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Before that, Hawaii'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'honolulu'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i read his life'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'flanders is going to get annexed by the netherlands!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama#Indonesia'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'he would be honest though'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Read that, and stfu'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'no he was not his father would not stay there'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right. his mother stayed there without his father.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'they went and loved with his father'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His father DIDN'T stay there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and france, and belgium...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'He lived with his grandparent, idiot...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you are incorrect, again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'then his mom left his father'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not sure how Jaxerel can have such selective dyslexia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'His father died, again, idiot'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna, the term is Delusional Psychosis, I believe'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'ok thats what you read'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I'm talking about his selective dyslexia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Got a better source? The one I linked says it all. Click it, and come out of your shell'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Obama#Indonesia'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's able to spell most words perfectly, yet sometimes he'll just butcher random words.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'I take it  he is  a decendant from goerge washington too'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Why would you take that?>'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'vak, that links breaks aardmush :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'here's a link to his school as well: http://www.punahou.edu/page.cfm?p=1786'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'he enrolled there in 5th.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, they're lying, Majic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i really do not care how my spelling is'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Every single source that refutes Birthers is lying.''
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because... ned flanders!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna, perhaps he is trying to hoist a flag while typing, while singing various anthems.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'I will say this Obama is a idiot as is  mitt'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'we are screwed either way'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'New argument - Jaxerel was born in Los Angeles. He spent the formative years of his life in Yugoslavia, before studying in Pakistan. He later moved to a backwards US town and took up the banjo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3r5e64/'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the problem with claiming that he's an idiot is that you've thrown out a whole bunch of things that are NOT true, so it automatically reduces your credibility about everything else you say.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't care what the so-called "intertubes" say, or all these pansy "scholars". I know for a fact that Joe Biden was born Queen of England to King Edward IV in Ecuador, where her position was usurped by the heathen Elizabeth and was exiled to Quebec, where she gained US citizenship by naturalisation, before legally changing her name to Joe Biden!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'now talk to your english friends and your canadaian friends and   let them tell you  how obama health care will work'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't say that, Majic! Don't crush my dreams! The U.S. Civil War was TOTALLY fought over cotton!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it faild them countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Jaxerel, care to comment on how your Yugoslavian education is affecting your perspective?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Canadians are perfectly happy with their healthcare system.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least that theory might explain Biden's tenuous connection with the present'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i don't know about perfectly happy, but it works'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'some of them are and some of them are not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'as with any system, there are good and bad points about it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'at least i don't have to stitch up my own wounds'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let me revise that statement: They wouldn't in a million years switch over the U.S. system.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'well my friend of 20 years  says it sucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'one of the strengths of socialized health care is in the preventative care.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nods the US system is fucked'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your friend of over 20 years is bad and you should FEEL bad!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'things are frequently much cheaper to treat if you can catch them early.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, paul ryan was totally born in the Empire of Granada, to a muslim duke who sent him on an expedition to Ecuador, where he converted to Pastafarianism and gained US citizenship!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the problem with pelosicare is that it's mostly more of the same - a system that is by far the most expensive in the world becomes more expensive, still doesn't have full coverage and for practical purposes works out as a semi-regressive tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Socialized healthcare is not perfect. But you always have the option of private healthcare should you choose to go that route.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'checkmate atheists'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Jaxerel, might that be because 20 years ago you were in Yugoslavia and your friend is actually Czech?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so it seems like 4 steps sideways and one backwards'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i am speaking truth'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'now is it that your 13 years old and have nothing to say'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. The U.S. Civil War was fought over cotton. All hair Jaxerel, Oracle of Truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How old are you, Jaxerel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd really like to start with low-cost (as in, $10 for a visit) preventative care clinics. I think that'd save us a hell of a lot of money and improve the average low-to-moderate income person's lot a fair amount while not costing as much as ER visits for that level of horseshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ah yes, speaking truth like glorious President Branko Kostic'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The heck kind of clinics only cost $10 a visit?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not even countries with socialized health care has that!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's not that they cost that much, yuna, it's that that's how much it's charged.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I don't like free at point of care clinics, it encourages running in for practically nothing. a small charge seems reasonable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'the trouble is money'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fine. Not even countries with socialized health care have clinics that only charge $10 a visit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless you're under the age of X.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'there's a problem with charging for these things.. some peole don't have cash to pay for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My country has socialised health which is free...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wrong, actually.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'so for every one to get free health'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or it's an emergency, I guess?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'most people can find $10 :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'who is gonna pay for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you're paying for it now, jaxerel, whenever you pay medical bills, insurance bills, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'for some people, the choice will be "pay $10" for the clinic" or "fed my kids"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't know how much it costs now, but 5-10 years ago it cost us less than 5usd for consultation at prevailing exchange rates'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'more likely pay ten dollars for the clinic or buy my cigarettes :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'for some.. yes. for all.. no chance at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'lets  see what does it cost you  at work to pay for your  family'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'for those with that choice, i have no sympathy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while I'm not sure how much the cost to them was, they're funded by the govt at the rate of roughly 50%'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eh, I'm not really an expert. I have no clue what consultation costs. I've only ever been to visit doctors for dentists visits and the emergency room.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I haven't needed to go to the hospital except for dental care since I reached the age where the state stops paying for all of your medical expenses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, pretty sure actually visiting the GP is free in the UK, I don't have experience anywhere else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yes, it is free in the uk.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I can walk into any GP or ER, hand over a medicare card (I also have private insurance, but not for outpatient stuffs), and walk out having seen a doctor for an hour for free.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'th cost is gonna be handed off to us'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess socialized medicine is ever better than I thought.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'jaxerel, the cost is already being handed off to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I sincerely doubtyou pay any taxes, Jaxerel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And if you do, I doubt it's much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'there are problems with it. non-essential stuff takes a *long* time on the NHS'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'how'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still wanna know how old you are, Jaxerel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'We have a single payer, and the only reason to have private health insurance is for aesthetic and speed'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'but, they're fairly good about essential stuff, and GPs are decent'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'every time you pay an astronomical medical/insurance bill, it pays for the people who go to the ER without the ability to pay because it's the only way to get treated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you can generally see a GP within a few days'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'no one pays  the hundreds that comes outr of my check'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at A Giant Kraken.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, Jaxerel, you claim you make at least 600 dollars a month?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'what is gonna happen we will no longer have our say over our care'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'jax - in *no* system in the world (as far as I know) do they ban private insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's fairly good for a) emergencies, such as 'I fell and broke my arm and need it casted right now', b) chronic and manageable conditions, c) non-urgent stuff such as needing an antibiotic for a UTI etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it will be government care'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'nothing will stop you getting additional insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'now who is paying for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I have my medicare card AND private health insurance, as I said'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the people.. in general'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Doesn't Obamacare give you the choice of going into Obamacare OR getting private insurance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's not so hot for things which are urgent but not immediate, such as needing an MRI soon or needing a colonoscopy soon.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't HAVE to pay both.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'do you all love taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home our top marginal income tax rates are 20%, GST at 7%, have conscription and a relatively large military, and somehow we get govt healthcare... most people will save much more than you are taxed with universal care.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, really, when it comes to choice, all Obamacare does is remove the option to NOT have health insurance.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'granted, we don't have rural areas, but I don't see US cities matching us...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I use the medicare for basic stuff, and the private insurance for things like dental aesthetics, and getting certain things done faster'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'no becuase he added a law that if you do not have insurance you will be fined'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of "You can choose between Obamacare or private insurance, just not NO CARE" was too Vietnamese cho m`y the first time I said it, Jaxerel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'jax - you *need* that, otherwise the other stuff doesn't work'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... that's exactly what yuna said, lern2read'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'do not take me wrong i understand people need these things'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'if you don't have a requirement for insurance, then people don't get it until they get sick, and insurance companies just fall over in a massive heap'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The 'fine' for not having insurance is how you pay for the free health care...it is usually means tested "OH NOES RED COMMIES COMING TO GET MEEEEEE"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. the fine isn't for that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the mandate is to prevent a death spiral of insurance companies'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i do not like the idea of all our health being taken care of  by politician'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, it's not'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it's still being run by insurance companies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you do not like that your president is a secret Indonesian.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i do not have insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the politicians are just *regulating* the insurance companies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i am outr of work'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can you not have health insurance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Kraken, here in Au it is called the 'Medicare levy surcharge', and it applies to those people whose income has been assessed as at a level where private health insurance would be expected.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just 5 minutes ago, you claimed that HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS are taken out of your paycheck [presumably every month].'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'australia, or some state?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Out of work and earning >600 a month?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '(honest question)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Australia'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i am not out to suck off the govenrmenr and if he wants to make me a criminal for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'ok. i don't know how their system works.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And if you're out of work, the U.S. laws gives you 3 months of additional health insurance or more. So how long have you been out of work, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'CORBA or something?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'then i can say fff obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Single Payer - not tied to employment'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'ah. you mean sane? :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Indeed'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'you know, there are places in the US, more rural areas, where countries opt not to have a fire department, and instead residents owe a yearly fee to the local village for fire protection.  And every year, there's a story about some poor sob who refused to pay for protection, and the fire department stood by watching his house burn down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You do not have to be a criminal to be issued a fine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'Jax may get along well with Tzad'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'thats what he is saying though'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'if we agree to let people not have insurance, we then must also conceed if those people need emergency care they can't pay for, they need to be left untreated'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, that's both barbaric, and detrimental to the overall nation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'I need work'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Taokan, there is a HUGE difference between not wanting insurance, and not being able to afford it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'but by your method both houses burn'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i *don't* think you can actually afford health insurance on minimal wage in the US, can you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'depends on where you work. some companies have good discounts'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the worst place to try to get insurance is if you're self-employed'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'assume the employer doesn't provide any help.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'but i would risk that  15 to 40 never need to ues it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I think Walmart has a cheapshit 'duct tape on a hemorrhage' option for minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Jaxerel.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'but will will pay for them too'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ever get hit by a car?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you *don't* know. that's the problem. There's always a risk of injury, illness, accident, etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, because "15 to 40" (what the fuck does that even mean?!) can totally predict that they'll never get into an accident.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'much agreed vakieh, Kraken: the PPACA (Obamacare) discounts your health insurance if your income is such that you can't afford it.  But, for it to work, it requires those that can afford it, to also purchase it.  It can't just be 100% govt sponsored or it will destroy the budget'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'or get cancer.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yes, i know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It was TOTALLY my fault that I caught that DEADLY new string of the flu virus at age 8 and would've DIED had I not been hospitalized for 2 months or so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'but, i'm talking more to the people who think ppaca is the worst thing ever..'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'I am saying majority'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Taokan, the way we do it here is to add a tax above a certain limit for any who do not have private insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'or, your own fault that you were born with a genetic condition.. should have chosen better parents!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My stint would've set my parents back probably hundreds of thousands of the dollars under the old U.S. system.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'thats how thye get therer figures'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I think I may have stumbled into this debate giving the wrong impression... I would argue some government services like health care and fire protection shouldn't be optional, as it forces us to make rather barbaric decisions for non-payers'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it could be 100% govt if they overhauled the whole thing entirely and provided services directly. Of course, it would never pass the gop.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 's'ok. we're mostly not arguing with you :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'sonshi - that'd never pass the dems either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Taokan, you're sane, we're sane, we're not actually disagreeing much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'for some reason, doing somethingh that'd get millions of people to vote for you doesn't seem like a good idea.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'fair enough, let me sip my coffee and put the kids on the bus, interesting discussion this morning though :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i must be missing something.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I have this sneaking suspicion Jax is a rather successful troll, but I will continue to argue on the off chance I can convince an onlooker.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Vakieh, that's how I treat all ostensibly insane people in online debates.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'what is gonna happen is the privat sector  is gonna no longer be paying for  health insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why? It's not like they'll be paying more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'obama care went threw'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you mean, they'll take away their employee's health insurance (Equivalent to a massive pay cut) and the employees won't go nuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I wouldn't say it would never pass the democrats... it could pass them if they get their arms twisted enough!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'your naievte is touching.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh noes, the Democrats implemented a new system that IN NO WAY INCONVENIENCES US! Quickly, cut the health insurance program!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'we are gonna see higher taxes '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'remeber, health care provided by employers is part of an employee's compensation'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it went threw'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It would never the Republicans because the Filibuster allows them to simply not allow a vote to take place.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it went threw '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I sometimes think we come at debates all wrong.  Instead of trying to convince others of a position, we should really be trying to educate and incentivise learning to think, and moreover think critically.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'careful.. that was almost banned in texas :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, given the political realities, instead of passing something closer to optimal, they had to pass some small improvement...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Critical thinking in school is a sin!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ban it now!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'I said earlier i will say it now we have no leaders running for office'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you have a tenuous grasp of the English language.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you get the leaders the party members want.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'See here, we could be explaining how such statements should be couched in sources on the inefficacy of the contending parties.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'guess what there is nothing anyoe can do about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. there are things. they're just *HARD*'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And now a lesson on how two party systems work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'so no-one wants to do them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what YOU can do about it, Jaxerel? RUN FOR OFFICE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I want a Jaxerel-Tigernuts ticket for 2016.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'help to split the nut vote off?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Jaxerel-Tigernuts: We believe Obama is secret an Indonesian (or Kenyan) Muslim and that the U.S. Civil War was fought over cotton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Vote Jaxerel-Tigernuts. You'd have to be NUTS not to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '2016, at least they can run against obama's emtpty chair, obama won't be eligible any more'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Problem Yuna, Tiggr wasn't born in the US.  I suppose they could forge a document or 2, though'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you need to be natural-born to run for VP as well?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I suspect Obama doesn't believe in any religion, but he can't really go around saying that now, can he?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It makes sense since you'd become interim president should something happen to incapacitate the president...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i think so, because you have to be eligible to be president to be VP'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'no we had the guy for 4 years  and people forgot why we are in afganastain'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'but, i'm not sure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Survey (Wikipedia) says: Yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'in case you didn't realise, wqe've been in afghanistan for 10+ years'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'hell of a leader there'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You are in Afghanistan because Taliban stopped opium production!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHy the fuck ARE we in Afghanistan, o wise leader, Jaxerel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or maybe it was something about terrorists and stuff, I forget'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yuna - that's a question i'd like to know the answer to :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'but the pres before left us knew why we are there'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Worl Poliiiiiice, dunununununununuhhhhhhh'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what would that be, Jaxerel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Oh YEAH baby, here we go, Bush praise incoming!!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anyone know where Chemosh is from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'because he got distracted by the shiny objects in the desert, and got bored with his toys in afghanistan?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Jaxerel-Chemosh. "A vote for us is a vote against every conspiracy theory in the history of the world. Vote Jaxerel-Chemosh or you're a member of the Illuminati!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'afghanistan, i more or less supported, although they've done terribly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, they should have given up a long time ago. it's unwinnable'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'well they built these  camps and they trained people to kill americans'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yeah. and without staying there forever, how do you plan to prevent it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I got detained at an airport once and lightly questioned by an airport security guard. This was when I was returning from a trip to Italy 2 days or so after the Iraqi War broke out. I'm Asian, speak perfect Swedish and was traveling with my Latin class.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A real riot, your airport security guards. I clearly a terrorist in disguise!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'and in time they did that not only the trade twowrs or the  navy shop buy embassies'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I have no idea what Jaxerel just said, but clearly he's talking about George H. W. Bush.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the wat to prevent this isn't "invade country X, and make sure they can't train people"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'so  you were  all just sperm when the trade towers fell'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's not as though it was a secret that Afghanistan has no capturable strategic centre of gravity'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. but, the solution there wasn't in afghanistan. it was in the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I actually think Jaxerel is clinically insane at this point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'spouse hey. at work, and tormenting people on debate :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His Friend of 20 Years is probably imaginary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'don't diss imaginary friends, plz'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'so ot was not bin laden that dod it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. he may have organised it, but clearly, he didn't *do* it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because we're all obviously 11 fucking years old.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'you all think it wa  some cia agent'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's what Chemosh probably thinks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the correct thing to do was a) Catch them when the entred the US, if they had the intelligence'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'well when you all do not remember what i am talking about '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'b) don't let people take over planes with box cutters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'that particular attack vector will *never* work again'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it shouldn't have worked the first time, but heh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How about "Not allow cowards to man your planes"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they were following the protocol at the time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because, seriously, the pilots could've just crashed the planes into fields or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the pilots *weren't* in charge any more'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When it became clear what the terrorists wanted them to do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the hijackers took flying lessons, remember.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'how about people grow balls and not attack   the kids'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they were treating it as a pre-2001 hijacking.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'procedure there is to let them do what they want.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah. Why didn't they all attack the terrorists like the crew and passengers of United 51 (or whatever) did?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'because they didn't *know* the plane was going to be flown into something until it's too late'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they expected it to go to a friendly airport and issue a list of demands'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'like the other previous hijackings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'you all think that  bin laden was right and normal i am done speakin here'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did previous hijackings also have the hijackers actually fly the plane?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yuna - i don't know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like he's inventing what we say in his head.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'he's argunig with the empty chair next to you. it's ok'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I will NOT allow you badmouth the gun-toting, homophobic, misogynistic and  possibly racist nutba... I mean national treasure that is Clint Eastwood.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'alright, who told him we eat babies for breakfast every day and torture kittens after lunch?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'look back in history'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'all i said about bin laden is that he didn't carry out 9/11'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, yes. I clearly remember that on this day, not two hours ago, you claimed the U.S. Civil War was fought over cotton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'because he clearly didn't. He wasn't on the planes'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'like our chat history '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'cheap-ass smartphone'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'almost'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'ooops.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Eastwood did have a good point though - "we tried this for four years and it didn't work, time to try something different"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'cotton? Not many knows this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'not entirely true'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. Time to vote the Democrats into a Super Majority in both houses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although he didn't talk about the limited amount of difference between the candidates'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it stopped the bleeding, and it's being slowly fixed. too slowly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'what limited amount?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, you know, SANITY.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'nah i know where i stand '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i will not  dishoner the ones that fell'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For the glory of cotton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the part where they effectively agree on most of the big issues, in order to appeal to voters in the middle?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'like Health Care and Taxes ?:p'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'hold on.. how do you actually know romney's positions on the issues?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'yuna maybe you need to mve to alabama'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For they were the men who would fight for the South's honor. They were the heroes that we're dreaing of. They'll live forever, knowing together that they did it all for the glory of cotton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'has he actually told you what they are, other than obama bad?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they agree on healthcare, taxes, and social security. Wow. News to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What issues do Romney and Obama agree on, Tinada?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and medicare, and income inequality, and banking regulations, and environmental regulations...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'gay marriage, war with Iran, leaving afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and abortion, civil rights...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'obama and bill clinton'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'obama doesn't go far enough in quite a few areas for me, but on 90% of them, he's better than romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wow, they agree on so many major issues. I really did not know that. Thanks!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'thats the sad part'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just out of curiousity's sake, what's the 10% of the issues where you think Romney trumps Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'there's 10% that I don't know enough about them :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'we  should have a govenrment that cares and just kill em both and give us a nother round'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'probably the problem didn't let them show off their l33tness'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'wtf? you've just totally jumped off the deep end there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'As far as I am aware, none of the candidates favour comprehensive and meaningful reforms of the financial system, government spending (including health care, pensions), overall cost externalization or control of demographic changes'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not "the major issues".'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's the issues YOU apparently care the most about.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'Nope just said what he said '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the fuck is talking about control over demographic changes besides you? In whose book besides yours is that a "major issue"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'we are left with two idiots running for pres'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'to be fair, the biggest long-run problem in the US is healthcare costs combined with an aging population'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'that *is* the driver of the long-run budget deficit'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'To everyone, the major issues are the ones they care about.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you clearly haven't been listening to Romney's lies enough. He wants to do a vast overhaul of government spending. He just refuses to tell you any details of his alleged plan.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I also have to wonder... if obama believed in a finite god who is one among many finite gods and that anyone can gain the power to becomes gods themselves, the fundamentalist types would probably have called him a satanist... but someone like that on their side, perfectly fine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'and the  healthcare cist came from hillary when she was voce prresident'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'hillary was *not* vice president.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In what alternate universe was Hillary ever vice president?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it's an alternate reality out there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In the alternate universe where she was the shadow vice president behind Bill Clinton, using Al Gore as a sock puppet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'google  bill clinton  saying sorry to  gore for  letting his wife do his job'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I "care" most about those issues, because they seem to be most significant for the world/US/dutch antilles over the next two generations'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i'm 90% sure that would have been a joke.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it is on meet the press'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You also claim Obama spent the majority of his life in Indonesia. Why should we care about your sources that amount to nothing but "Google it"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'no it was not gore was ready to step down'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'majority? 4 years, as far as I can tell'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'so, the us president is ... 8?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you have sensible reasons that other areas are more important, I don't mind adjusting my position'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'short-term.. unemployment.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, I think I said the differences were limited, which still allows the candidates to disagree on any number of points of medium to low overall significance'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'medium-term, healthcare costs/demographic stuff is fine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The major issues this election cycle are health care, unemployment, the economy (and then the cultural wars, now fought for/against the gays AND women).'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'well if you never figured that stuff out it means you never checked'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '"fine" in the sense that you can fund it by printing money, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'banking/environmental regulations'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no.. i meant fine to worry about.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it *is* a problem. but it's not an immediate problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wish they had limits on arsenic in rice...'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't actually understand how the economy works if you think one can solve a criwsis by printing more money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'now *that* sort of thing is really, really complex.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. it depends on the situation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Summoner Yuna ponderingly.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'not sure i've got a good handle on the details for that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'obama will write as much money as we need'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'but, for some economic problems, printing money *is* the solution.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not recessions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'jax - you mean obama won't let the economy go into free-fall. that's called a *good* thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'who pays for it then'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it will cause inflation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'if you  understand economics'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are better ways than outright printing money, but in a liquidity trap, it'll probably do some good up to a certain point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'moderate inflation is *good* for debtors. Bad for creditors'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'aka banks'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, it's been generally agreed that moderate inflation is what you want for an economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'his running of bad money is riasing the  debt'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'NO.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the debt is being raised because the governement is spending more than it tbrings in'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I recall a prominent politician saying that "deficits don't matter", just can't remember who'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'simple as that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they don't.. until a democrat is in the white house.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How he heck do you "run bad money"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'and when they start printing more'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'there are 2, and only 2 things you can do to fix the deficit'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'put people back to work, and much of the deficit will go away on its own'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '1) raise revenue'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '2) cut spending'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'raising revenue can eithr be done by growing the economy or raising taes'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it does nt  do that it has to have a silver mark'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '3) Raise revenue AND cut spending WITHOUT raising taxes. It totally works. We just won't find out how unless Mittens is elected POTUS!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'growth actually does both of those things. however, you need a plan to genrate the growth :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cutting too much spending may lead to a weimar type situation'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. it really won't'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'when he prints more money we as americans  pay more for products'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah Obama has a nice little printing press where he prints this money'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'but he  when he is no longer pres will get  great kick backs'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'people don't understand economics. yet, they think they're experts on all of this stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'During the past couple of years, the money printing has "worked" (ie. created limited overall inflation) because 1. The (western) shadow banking system has collapsed, with overall liquidity dropping by 8trn or something, and only about half of that has been picked up by the regulated banking system. Also in general the money printing corresponds loosely to "destroyed" money in the form of lower valued equities, commodities, bonds etc, 2. Changes in the perceived value of liquidity cause all sorts of units to hold more cash, reducing the velocity of money, 3. For the US in particular, most USD are held abroad and together with trade deficits and other money flows this enables a significant portion of the inflation to be exported'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama didn't kill Bin Laden, the seals did that'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but he is printing money, "himself"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'eek. wall of text :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Bernanke is printing money, Obama just uses it'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, yes, you CAN solve SOME minor problems with printing more money. I wasn't clear enough. But you CANNOT solve the current U.S. economic crisis by printing money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the "tldr" version of that is, monetary expansion is fine in a liquidity trap.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yuna - indeed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It would simply plunge the country into a 2nd depression.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and one might argue for 4. CPI is artificially low due to the exclusion of energy, food'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'and i agree it was gonna be any sitting commander in chief that  killed obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'energy prices are too volatile for them to be included in CPI.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. Because Obama would totally kill himself. Stellar logic!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'and i agree it was gonna be any sitting commander in chief that  killed bin laden'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Bush looked for eight years'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i was not for off though'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. bush didn't look. that's the problem.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Er, I don't believe you can solve fundamental problems by printing money. I just meant it looks like it works because there are special conditions which reduce the negative effects at the moment.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'tinada - it's *very* *very* complex.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'we have a president that thinks that '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you were to "print" money and build infrastructure, you'd boost the economy without significant inflationary effects, up to a certain point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know your obvious clinical insanity, Jaxerel? You DID build that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'another 4 years we are gonna be  totaly screwed to the point that we will have to  vote in a republocan'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'because obama's totally tanked the economy that was doing brilliantly in jan 2009?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'he did waht'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Didn't you hear, Kraken. Obama is a meanie for not retroactively saving that car plant that tanked BEFORE he assumed office.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'what was the growth rate in 4Q 2008.. oh yeah, -8.9%, the worst since the 1930s'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Presidents and presidential candidates can retire AND save companies retroactively now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'yet he gave them the loans'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'oh, you mean there wasn't a president between 2000 and 2008?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the prices of X increase more than average prices over long periods of time, a CPI excluding X will understate true inflation, irrespective of the volatility of X.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Following the same Mitt Romney logic, Obama retroactively plunged the country in a recession!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama is clearly the 12th Doctor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no. GEORGE BUSH gave GM/etc the loans'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the first part, anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'then, obama did their chapter11'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'I believe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'out of idle curiosity, what was the growth rate in q3 2008'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'felt - about -3% if i remember rightly. will check if you want'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would depend on what your "X" is. If it isn't included, it's most likely some fringe product what really doesn't affect things'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(which)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'felt - it went -3.7, -8.9, -6.7, -0.7'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I may be wrong on this, but I hear that some humans occasionally need food and energy :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'thanks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, those are included in the headline figures, just not core'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'so i love my mom but she has no insurance  she is  gonna die'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'debate after that, it has been postive (although not high enough) since then'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'anyway.. lunchtime.. have fun.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'is that how it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fact is, most western economies are producing well under capacity now'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Speaking of lunch, I officially am sick of waffles. I could barely get through my 4th waffle. How do U.S. citizens stomach these?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'why does it matter who can stomach them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i am talking about  rught here right now'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'just ask why anybody can stomach them. No need to attach your crap to it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The first one is delicious with the right toppings but then they just get less good with each bite.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: '... A better question is who eats 4 waffles'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no one in their right mind eats 4!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I should mention that these waffles are approximately 66% the size of a "U.S. Sized" one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So it's more like 2,5ths of a waffle.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'it is  more like 13th of a  ball gag'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'I am 43'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scurvy: 'Shenanigans!'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'is what i laugh so much'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'the years i know'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'oh i am 43 years old  '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaxerel: 'i do filliw  the history'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh joy, my glorious government wants to push secret trials on us, in the name of covering up dodgy secrets'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'canyon part'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'For an obama-phone laugh, check this one out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJA6hn0Pnwo&feature=related'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I love how the President today said that if your company breaks the sequestration law, the Labor department will pay your legal bill. I'm sorry Mr. President, exactly where in the Constitution do you have that kind of power? to pledge public funds to protect people who broke the law. Wow, I mean this is Chicago politics big time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he got the power from the same place Bush got his to allow him to violate the 4USAmend rights of citizens placed in Gitmo'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yep, the same power Obama is using to keep them there. Gitmo still isn't closed, people are still there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is call executive power, which the USSC refuses to strike down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, power alright. To tell people as the chief executor of the law, to go and break it cause I've got it covered. What?! '
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'How can you expect people to follow laws if the chief executor is saying it is OK to break them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Presidents are not above the law. No one is. Let's keep it that way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, while I don't agree with what he is doing in re, I don't see why you are yelling at him in particular, he is doing what presidents do. So if as they did, so he can. Blame it on the USSC, not that their hands are clean, since they do, enact laws, in violation of the constitution.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, I admit that the USSC has warped the definition of the Constitution a lot. But, when you say I'll cover you if you break the law, and its your job to enforce it (which you signed an oath to do with 100,000 people watching you on the Natnl Mall)....'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Andrew Jackson'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'USSC violation of the constitution in Gore vs Bush was watched by more and they didn't care.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean what limit does Obama really have on power now? Can he just say, "Oh I'm not going to give up power in 2013.. or 2017"..'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do you really believe that though'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, I mean he can tell people to break laws and he'll protect them. What does the law mean to him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Some we follow, some we dont?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Whichever ones he wants.. theres really no limit on the power.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which law is he advocating breaking?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Sequestration'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'carbon sequestration?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there are mechanisms in place to do just that, November. Read the FIMA charter. However, presidents seem to be wise enough that they will no take advantage over unless it will  really work. Bush almost did it after 9/11. It would take an event like that for the president to get away with it, even temporarily.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No, defense cut law'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'FEMA*'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so what particular aspect of the law is he advocating breaking?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'You mean that you "can never let an emergency go to waste" (to grab more power)?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Sequestration says that on November 1st, defense contractors have to notify people of layoffs if they will lose their job due to budget cuts. Obama said today to companies to not worry about it because the Labor dept. will use public funds to protect companies that don't follow that law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, what FEMA allows is for a president to cause a disaster so that he can suspend the constitution and assume military power. But even the idiots out on the streets might wake up and object to that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Right Anaristos, its all a matter of how far do you think you can really go?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama is never going to take over the U.S. Government'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People don't see the false flags, despite things like Tonkin, Operation Northwoods, 9/11 etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think Obama is clearly doing this to protect Virginia where there are MANY defense contractor jobs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '9/11 was close, but Bush got cold feet at the end. But, had the blame landed squarely at his door, he would probably would have gone through with it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Still, its an abuse of power, to put yourself ahead of the law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Once the elections pass, he'll rescind that and oops.. heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Talk about skidding over the line....'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is no line, the USSC refuses to strike down executive power, so he is operating within his job description.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're all hand-picked'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not separate checks and balances'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, its a shame. But anaristos, the USSC may be wrong in not acting, but that doesnt make what the president does is right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Presidents are allowed unlimited pardons correct?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'correct within the bounds of political backlash'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well I admit I'm no constitutional expert, but I think so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The separation of powers is an illusion; it's not that they're "allowed"'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'which is why pardons always come at the end of a term'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'besides executive power, the presidents can also issue NSAMs, which have the power of laws.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'BTW for all you obama-phone fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJA6hn0Pnwo&feature=related I laughed soooo hard that I was truly ROFLMAO.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think you mean obama-philes'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No, its hilarious.. they set it against Bananaphone..'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJJKW7ea1oc this isn't too bad either'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'is that the Remix G? that was good too'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'personally, my opinion is that since Bush got re-elected, Obama should, too. Obama hasn't done a 10th damage to the US that Bush did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're the same thing - following orders from the CFR'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Who wins is strictly for the eyes of the people'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and frankly, Romney smells just like Bush to me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Because they're all related'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe they should do a DNA check on Romney make sure he is not a GW clone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Explain how they're the same? They don't have the same background or family at all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '10th cousin twice removed'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Illuminati keeps it all in the family'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually Obama and Bush are close in family too. Obama is an 8th cousin of Dick Cheney.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what does ancestry have to do with anything?'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'nothing'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't let outsiders in the Inner Circle'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'To, you know, actually lead'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'ooo we're all separated by 6 degrees of contact and 15 degrees of family... not a shock.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if we apply the 6-degree-of-separation test, we are all cousins.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like when Jesse Ventura won governorship of MN'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think thats a "i know such and such" not related anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They keep it all in-the-know - when an outsider comes in, they monitor them'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it apply to blood relations, too. Gene pools might be large, but they are finite and we all came from the same place so we are all related. Except the few that were spawned by outer space visitors, of course.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Call it conspiracy? listen to Jesse Ventura'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Navy SEAL Vietnam, knew the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama thinks hes going to lose the debate. He could act like a monkey the whole time and somehow MSNBC will *still* find a way to make it seem like it was a complete and utter destruction of Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They cross-examine him under the White House'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tail him to Cuba, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't want outsiders'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but Fox is the #1 rated news broadcaster'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and they carry water for Romney like it's their job (it is)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well Fox was placed on Earth to prove that US tv viewers are idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Those debates are just silly. Still, 15% of people according to Rasmussen can change their minds.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'You dont have to make the point that I'm using the debate channel to say this, I get the irony'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the one thing that makes the debates not very useful is that Candidates don't get called out for lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US can be thankful that my pow is definitely a minority one :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7R1_ixtlyc'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'pov, that is :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Stop watching the "debate" cartoons - it's all premeditated'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think that anyone who wants to rule me should first submit to my "acid" test.'
T3/r7/2012-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think we should start the spin now, we can make headlines before MSNBC and FNC do... just start declaring the winnner 2 days in advance!'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like obama's lead is narrowing'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if you're talking about the polls, real clear politics average has it at about the same as it has been'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just going on what the ones reported today were'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were american i'd want me one of those obamaphones'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah,I tend to look at the realclearpolitics.com website, they average some of the leading polls'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, here I went and bought a new one, I didn't realize they were handing them out :('
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you guys are soooo screwed'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, we're slowly turning into the uk'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've got a whole different spin going on on it'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'involving guns, corruption, people being disappeared, alsort'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'have you checked out unskewedpolls.com?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'is there such a thing as an unskewedpoll?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we just perfected our government dependance and public dumbing down program over 75 years, so could do it slower so that people wouldn't notice'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, I will look at the website'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't like that site because it shows statistics being used to show a bias in favour of romney instead of a bias in favour of obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know what these liberals are like, if you don't agree with them and hand them all your money, you're evil, you're racist and you should be in prison'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think hitler, but black lesbian with a smile and a free phone'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, I'm not sure that I agree with their poll choices, but their approval rating seems to be consistent with everything else I've seen'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and historically, an incumbent president will garner the amount of votes equal to his approval rating'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't work like that here in the U K'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll vote the same 2 sets of criminals in regardless, because the british people, much like the americans... are fucking retarded'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'speak for yourself'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was speaking for a generalisation'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Wasn't it Einstein or someone similarly cerebral who said that the definition of insanity is performing the same actions and expecting different results'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or something similar'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZAe1xpkOWw'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dosset's on the march, the empire's on the run'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'then what's the definition of persistence? :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the season finale of Doctor Who was dumb'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nice link, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Deniers gon deny'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't want to say that popular vote means nothing, but I think a lot of people believe that popular vote is what decides a race'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'In all honesty, distill it to what it is: some number printed in newspaper and TV'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but that finale episode really sucked'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'watching that is a bit like falling down a rabbit hole'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's wtfbbq + about 100%'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the guy who wins is the guy whose paid the software companies that program the voting machines'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd be better off going back to our method - paper votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yay hanging chads!'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, you've lost me there'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the bush vs. gore, where the did all the recounting'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by hand?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Recount? Did you watch them recount it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and they recounted, and recounted, then had to start deciding if a partial punch was a vote or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ie. a hanging chad'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, they started counting by hand'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why punch, why not cross with a pen ffs?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All farce'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's preselected, and there's irrefutable testemony to the fact it's rigged'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'since when did you come to the conclusion that government = common sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'testimony too'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all sounds like "let's make this more complicated than it needs to be so we can screw with it"!'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well not to worry, gold touched on 1100gbp today ($1775)'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it seems to me, I also remember something about one of the tickets being really messed up, arrows pointing at the other page and everything, think it might have happened in florida'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'cause all the crazy stuff goes down in florida'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given up all hope of having my own place before it all crashes down, it's fucking impossible'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'country's been screwed up far too badly already'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'right now i'll have to settle for not ending up glowing in the dark or succumbing to a bioplague'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama says now that then'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'the government doesn't care about the people in N.O.?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I remember sending all kinds of aid there after Katrina.. why would he say that we didn't care?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, this is just a pandering video. A politician pander? Never!'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's not right, but I don't think he's the only one who does it'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, I think the concern I have is that he used the race card over and over again. Now, I play cards, and I'm pretty sure once you use a card.. in most games, it cant be used again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'in a lot of games you shiffle the discard pile back into the deck once you're out of cards to draw :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the race card will always be used, just like the gender card, untill it stops working'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'So its more like a Magic the Gathering card.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hah'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'you don't do that in magic. you do that in Uno though'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'or in Poker'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I use to love uno'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not that that has anything to do with playing race cards, but still'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well I'm debating which card game is the race card most akin to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'go fish'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah or "war"'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'it's like candy land, because there aren't too many distinct cards in the game, they're just all used a lot over and over'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It just keeps coming back over and over in a game without end '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Oo, I like that one Lokathor'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hehe, he's so phony sounding in this video. Obama doesn't do a southern accent well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it mostly sounds like he has a cold '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That was my first thought, Razkin'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he's just going nasally, or something'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Still, even with a cold you don't change your cadence. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'obama's voice, really nasally, would be hilarious. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'he draws out his vowels.. you don't do that with a cold.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but again, I think that's something that any good speaker does in trying to relate to their audience, it's just the fact that he's contradicting things that he said later'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and their pretty significant things for a president'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, I just wish I owned an island that I could go be a hermit on'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama changes opinions, facts, statements all the time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Apparently he changes his voice too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, the bastard, why couldn't he be like other presdents: Nixon, LBJ, Reagan or Bush?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Maybe Calvin Coolidge, who said like 15 words a day. All monotone :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the fact is the US doesn't like nice, honest presidents. Look how they treated Carter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, I agree, all politicians do it, I don't know why we act surprised, or why people actually try and pretend like it doesn't happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'an JFK'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and*'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I'd like to see Obama use that voice at the debate tomorrow. MSNBC has already declared him the victor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Maybe he can win southern states over with that southern accent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i don't see how an honest person could be elected president of the us'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, he has less baggage than Rumney...'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he doesn't have to win the southern states to win the election'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think it can happen Halicka'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and we know why the Southern states won't vote for him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I don't know, Obama has a very colorful past. Most people don't realize his background.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I"m not sure I agree with that, Ana, at least not at this point'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think that was a strenght of his the first time, but this election I think that's less true'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'really'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well he really could use Florida.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'or at least, as perceived by the public'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'I just don't see it. I think to get elected you have to tell people too much of what they want to hear. And you have to speak too vaguely. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so the South will ignore his race and vote solely on his merits... I supposed they will have a moratorium on hangings until after the election.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'again, he doesn't have to win the south, go look at most elections, by and large, they're predominatly red states'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's beside the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well thats how he won last time. He used hope and change vaguely so everyone could project on to that every dream they had, and suddenly Obama is the answer. Its actually been done many times before in the past.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you think that if one votes for Rumney, that hope of change will come about? Are you that silly?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, I don't think much will change'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Hope and Change and Tippecanoe Too'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think part of the problem is that Obama made some wildly opptomistic claims the first time through, and people expected those changed, as they haven't happened, a lot of people have become disenchanted'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I think Romney runs the same risk'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Depends, I really want to hear more concrete plans. Not attacks on one another.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'romney and obama have both been super vague this cycle. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a lot of the commentators are saying that'll be one of the big deciding factors, who can be more specific and clear'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'My wife does too. She's just undecided for that reason. I know that Romney has a 52 page economic plan boiled down to 5 points, but talk about them more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Like tell how you're going to do it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'after the last election cycle, I don't think people want a message of puppies and rainbows, they want a gameplan'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'I don't see either campaign offering concrete plans. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hopefully that'll change with the debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'too much opportunity for the other side to spin and take things out of context and run it into the ground. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well Obama offers vision. I mean its all about how we're all in it together and we're all going to have 100,000 dollars and a private jet. But, no real "how do we get there from here"'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That's the problem with 'forward' the slogan. Where are we going? I get into a car every day and I know where I am going and how I am going to get there roughly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Just saying, go forward! doesnt really mean anything concrete without a destination'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, neither did hope and change :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'and even if they did propose plans, those plans would utterly ignore the realities of both economics and congress to suggest that the president cant unilaterally wave a magic wand and make certain numbers happen. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'exactly. Halica is probably right'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, thats true to a point. Presidents should lead though... '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Doesnt mean it will work out, but they have to take ownership and run with it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, they can set the tone and the focus of a governemtn, but they don't sit in a room and pull all the levers , so to speak'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'man I can't type tonight'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And lets keep it that way :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama is a good speaker, and he seems like a nice guy. But, there is something to be said about that empty chair.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'All vision and no plan, doesn't go anywhere.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'obama's 08 campaign was really a thing of brilliance. when you look at it carefully there really was a little bit for everybody. he's extremely good at giving impressions. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, but gimmicks, cleverly worded speeches, vageries.. if we fall for that again, not shame on him, shame on us. We need solutions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I still think that whole election was a referendum on Bush, any republican candidate wasn't going to win, there was no way they could distance themselves far enough from him, and the public was just tired of the war and everything that was going on'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I may be wrong, but I still think that's a huge part of what went on'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'do you think romney provides those solutions?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'going back to your point earlier, I don't know that he's been specific enough to say'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He does, he just needs to be more clear and specific. And fast, too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I saw a show on Science channel that had this guy who said violence worldwide was actually lower now than in previous eras.  He actually wrote an 800-page book to make his argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Indeed. It just doesnt seem that way because everything is shared so quickly now a days'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I would guess it depends on how he bench marks that'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'presumably that's why he needs 800 pages to make his point. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, we've been at war for ten years now, but there were battles in WW1 where more people died in war than those that have died through this whole war on terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so I don't know how you judge that'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I"m sure it was a thrilling book :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think he's explaining that there is actually more peace in the world today than in times past.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'easy, nowadays we're all total pussies who can't handle a little death.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'course, that's probably somewhat cynical of me'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I know it seems maybe contradictory, but he's got a point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Life was much more brutal for a higher percentage of people in the past.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'maybe'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'totally forgot that there are monsters to be killed here'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'got so caught up in high minded political drama'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I like taking short breaks in the grind, I'm one that tends to cp/quest to level, so it's always nice just to stop for a few :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its a good break. To talk to such fine people as yourselves.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I haven't been called a fine person in a long time :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i've got a friend in local politics, and the amount of image manipulation, cherry picking, word twisting, and general nonsense that goes on even at the lowest levels is crazy. from what she says, it gets worse the higher up you go. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they always say that you rise to your level of incompetence'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i've got a very cynical attitude about the possibilities of honest debate at the statewide and national levels. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'sorry bout the buzz kill. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no buzz kill, just started killing mobs again :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'me too.. triple xp'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'specially when I saw there was double exp going on'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i should probably get in on some of that '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I love Newt Gingrich, though I'm so thankful he didn't win the nomination'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, good speaker. Not a good politician.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He's as divisive as Obama is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'aardwolf has the best political system. campaigns consist of me killing tax collectors. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it was funny, I loved Newt, Herman Cain, and Ron Paul, but there's no way I would have voted for any of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I hate that mob'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know why, but I hate him so much'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'you got something against goblins?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Heh, Ron Paul. He's pretty funny. I love him, he's like 80% worth listening to but the other 20% its like, man you're on mars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's probably unhealthy that I have such a strong reaction against a text mob, but still'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Did you guys hear the latest Gaffe from Biden?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Ryan capitalized on it, he's going to destroy Biden in that debate and MSNBC won't even be able to save Biden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know I did, but I can't remember it right now, old age and all'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'biden's got some experience at this politics thing. i wouldn't put it past him to hold his own. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'What was it? I missed it'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, he's just gaffe prone. And if you're clever, you'll pick up on it and slam on it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He said that the middle class was buried in the past four years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Darn right, because of your and Obama's policies!'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'He didnt' blame Bush?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'On this, we agree Biden. On this! :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I don't think it takes much wit or cleverness to exploit a gaffe :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'That's why its a gaffe :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its the way you do it Quad. Let me provide an example.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it takes wit and cleverness to not gaffe'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not too bad... at least it didn't show that he hated the middle class...'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ugh, every time I comment I forget what mob I'm hunting and what zone i"m in'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Yeah if you put me in front of a TV camera, you'd all think I was a socialist Nazi dictator that helped George W Bush take over the world and led to the South's secession'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'And I'd just be trying to say good morning'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I still remember when Kerry in 2004 in a debate rattled on about Bush and at the very end he said that Bush used his lumber mills to chop down trees that destroyed the environment. Bush had only one response, "I own a lumber company? That's news to me!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'er... which led...'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean, its the way that you turn the gaffe around quickly or not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and (zombie) hitler would then proceed to blame you for the holocaust, when you were just trying to say hi to the audience!'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'possibly my favorite part of aardwolf is the way i have to kill the most random people/things. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh, zombie hitler'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I'd probably fall for it and take the blame too :('
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'like when i killed a babysitter wanted for the murder of 15 people. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that reminds me, Infectenator 2 is out, you can have a zombi Kim Jong Ill'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's like a quest I had yesterday, had to go kill a baby that was wanted for the murder of like 8 people'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's one mean baby'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He's the baby from the Etrade ads. Those ads kill me'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a couple of those were cute, but now they kind of just creep me out'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was a 5th degree blackbelt of Toddle-kwon-do'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No seriously, they really do, I hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the one with the clown was great'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'the onion's been great lately. they had an article about a baby losing faith in humanity after 6 days. '
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I've disliked those ads from the start. I'm probably in their demographic too'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I hate that carfax commercial with the girl and the singing hair'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that creeps me out more than the babies'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I remember it, so I guess it did it's job'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'argh, I forgot what I was hunting again'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i don't even watch tv anymore. i live in a swing state. i don't think i could handle the commercials. besides, who needs visuals when you have intricately drawn ascii maps?'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I gave up t.v. for like 5 years, then I got married'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Watching this video, I have to ask the question on the Stafford act. The local money that wasn't given to the people was probably not given because, well after a disaster, all the local government money is pretty much spent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'now that i think about it, i don't think aardwolf's world is a happy place'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at any one time, there's 300+ mass murderers running around the world, no it's not happy'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'PCs are really evil people'
T3/r7/2012-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and as we kill all these thousands of poor text people, we become more powerful'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh dear, it's all kicking off now, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DOJ busts Russian spy ring within the FBI'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey bombs targets inside Syria'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest poll R 47% O 47%'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't some polls have R up by like 11 still?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not without unskewing, no'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of class or sector specific ones giving him that kind of lead and more'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'turnout will probably be key'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the particularly high turn out for democrats last time, i doubt they'll turn out as much this time after the huge disappointment herr oberfuhrer has been'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, while people are distracted with the illusory election, shit is going down'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Most polls seem to be based on an even higher democrat turnout this year'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is supremely unlikely'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'd need to hand out a shit load of free obamaphones for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you can sum the race up to a foreigner'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dems got a lot of crossover last time, republicans are likely to get a significant rollback of those, effectively making a bunch of dems vote republican simply because they awakened to some stark truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're poor, a communist, delusional, or a fucktard, vote obama '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're rich, a neocon, delusional, or a fucktard, vote romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama doesn't even think the 47% can get themselves dressed in the morning without help.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well he's right'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise they wouldn't have voted for him'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as Mr Tyler said: If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder what that russian spy ring is all about'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, spying.  What else did you think it was?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, but within the fbi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'admittedly, the US intelligence services have been compromised pretty much since day 1'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'spying isn't just all swiping of military secrets or restricted goods (ie, nuke stuff)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, we'll see - they normally keep this stuff under wraps'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'things have been quite openly aggressive and warmongery, anyone would have though that the economy was going down the toilet or somethin'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're looking for good old-fashioned dirt on "the guys on the other side of the negotations table", and they might want to figure out what deals and conversations we're having with their frenemies/enemies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'PCs are really evil people'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'PCs?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i didn't mean to say that'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i meant to go down,but my client thought it better to debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as in police constables?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'as in player characters'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't understand'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or political correctness?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can't be political correctness, because it's gorn mad'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'as in i didn't even mean to say it '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'protective custody?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'I mean me. okay? I'M EVIL AND I COULDN'T LOOK MYSELF IN THE MIRROR SO I WANTED TO BLAME PCs. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Halicka sobs in misery.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'and the answer is yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'polish catholic?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'posh criminal?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'worst kind of catholic. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'polyglotic camel'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that reminds me - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206008/Probe-launched-Polish-priest-gets-young-children-lick-whipped-cream-knee-creepy-school-initiation.html'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yes, there are pictures'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'no i don't want to see them. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '/really/ fucking creepy'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're setting up 29mpix cctv cameras over UK now'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'that's also creepy'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i looked at the pictures and now i'm scarred :('
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '"While some people have expressed shock over the pictures, which were posted on the schools website, the parents of some pupils have come out in support of the priest."'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is it just me or does the girl in the green shirt look like perhaps she was pissed on?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that sentence has more than one wtf?! moments'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure i'd classify it as 'distubing''
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'disturbing, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you're used to that sort of treatment?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perverse, maybe'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the daily mail is a pretty despotic rag, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'on another subject: i might consider this offer, but only because of the good cause - http://i.imgur.com/itS9G.jpg'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '19 minutes left...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yep :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Suitable name, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'MSNBC has already declared Obama the winner.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tymas: 'Good, Romney doesn't deserve it'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'what about fox? :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, its good we have a news channel that's basically the propaganda arm of the administration. Yeah, that's worked out so well in the past :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where did MSNBC declare Obama winner of the 1st debate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Are you listening to them right now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fox News outright just lies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No. Why would I listen to them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Humour?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How long will this debate be and will there be breaks?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I have danishes to put in the oven.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '90mins'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Here we go :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'An emphasis on "Specifics"? Mittens has already lost.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hah, Obama offers nothing in specifics.. all dreams, all vision.. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tymas: 'Are you kidding, November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pretty sure the health care thing is pretty detailed... also budgets, etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that might get him killed... That's what JFK offered and earned a bullet because of it :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Explain specifically how you would help small businesses Mr. President? How would you reduce deficit. How? Specific.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'budgets'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, they only get 2 minutes each.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I know, thats why they have web sites :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I'm glad Obama wants to follow Romney's ideas. Maybe we should just make Romney president instead :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, hey, Mittens is lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm shocked. Shocked and appalled.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'who cares?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Healthcare prices have gone up under Obama?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'They have for me.. and I have less choice in my plans at work too'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Healthcare prices always go up.. its like certainty that the sun will go up'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and bush, and clinton, and the first bush, and reagan.  Health care prices have been doing nothing but going up almost since politics discovered how effective TV was.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still waiting for Romney to ask a question.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's so such thing as fucking clean coal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He can do whatever he wants, not do what the Moderator tells him to do'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes there is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's coal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All they're doing is REDUCE emissions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which leaves CO2, and we're currently bottling that up via sequestering.  Instantly 100% clean coal, and all we had to do was pump smoke into the ground.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What magical studies would those be?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I never heard this 5 trillion tax plan, was it an MSNBC fantasy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'This isnt the same economy as Bill Clintons. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think that's obvious :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'OK so why didn't you do that over the past 4 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'that's the bottom line'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'why didn't you do any of this shit already?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because of the Party of No?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you not understand how the filibuster works?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Ok so get off your ass with your SUPER MAJORITY in CONGRESS for 2 years and DO it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'poor poor leader'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When did Obama EVER have a super majority?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, you need one in BOTH chambers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the first two years'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'For the first two years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, the first, like, four months.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you cannot pass laws with Congress alone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Ok so 59-41.. you mean your policies are so polarized you can't convince one GOP to join you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'On the left, tour, you will see one more person who doesn't understand the 2 party system.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'so much for unity... blue states red states united states eh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you just hide your head in the sand for the past 4 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Republicans vowed to make Obama a 1-term president the second he won the election and promised to obstruct him at every turn.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They voted "No" to pretty much any bill he or the Democrat put forth on PRINCIPLE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well Yuna, you have to understand a supermajority is a scary thing when EITHER party has it. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we need some white states.  White power, ftw!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '30 or so Republicans voted "No" to a bill that allowed female government workers to report rapes committed upon them while stationed overseas because the Democrats wrote it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean democrats were scared in October of 2001 when Bush had 97% approval rating'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'YOU NEED A SUPER MAJORITY IN BOTH CHAMBERS TO PASS LAWS EASILY.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When the FUCK did Bush ever have 97% approval rating?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Nope, only one .. the senate where filibusters can happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'After 9/11'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He carried into 2002 too'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'and won more power in congress'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the Democrats NEVER had a super majority in the Senate. So you're WRONG.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'polling indicated it was very unpopular to critisize the leader of a nation that just got traumatized.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Source for your RIDICULOUS claim that Bush has EVER had a 97% approval rating?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'They did, until Scott Brown won Teddy' Kennedy's seat'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No. They did NOT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'weird, opposite parties not getting along or agreeing. sounds just like what we have in office now'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They had 57 seats. That is NOT a 60-seat super majority.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Basic math seems to fail you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'this moderator is shitty at shutting these folks up lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop LYING, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why do you think Fox picked him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did Mitt Romney just use the Moral Card?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He who hates gays, women and DOGS?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yes, yes he did'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'here comes obama's remarks. same shit we just listened to for 15 minutes...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And 47% of the U.S. voters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: '47% of us are evil though'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I used to feel alone as a gay man getting morally blasted by repubs, now 47% of us are targets, wooo!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'hate 47% of voters? no, he doesn't hate them. he just thinks your busted ass should contribute'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, 47% of us are just plain retarded, can't even get dressed right in the mornings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've been paying taxes since I was 16.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obamaphone :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'well, I'm not in the 47% apparently, I make enough to pay income tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This year is the first year in more than 10 years that I have not paid income tax.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'but people with payroll tax pay more as a percentage of their gross than romney, and ARE the so called busted asses'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and don't make me use my Mom voice!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Hey, Obama knows something I don't know. That spending money makes your credit card bill go down'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I rather think he does hate us :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'son of a bitch, I've been wasting money sending it to Visa all this time...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still wanna know in what alternate universe the Democrats EVER held a Super Majority in the Senate after the 2008 election.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Heh, apparently you can charge wars to Visa'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'uhh didn't they for just a little bit after al franken finally won the minesota seat?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'they did in 2008-2010. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'ohh, the ole' "it's bush's fault!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No. They had 57 seats. With 2 independent seats.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's 1 seat short of a SUper Majority if you factor in the two INDEPENDENT seats.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'flip would you stop being so flippant, it undermines your credibility'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they should have trotted out that black hulk hogan guy'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '59 seats with two of them being INDEPENDENTS who agreed with the Democrats MOST of the time does not a Super Majority make!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yuna: it didn't become 58 with two indies when al franken got in?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'in 2009?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'neither side is willing to follow basic economics. But at least the democrats are a lot closer'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. But that's STILL not a fucking Super Majority. Because that's 2 INDEPENDENTS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it hit 60 or 61, but then what's his name took a heart attack or something to the knee.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'ouch'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'this hits obama hard.. well here we go, bill clinton math'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '16-10 trillion = 6.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, those two independents caucused with the democrats... for all that is worth'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That doesn't mean they WERE Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it means they got to dictate policy!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Same thing, if you vote D all the time, you're a D.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or that the Democrats got a Super Majority.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except they DIDN'Tn vote with the Democrats all the time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yet there were really no filibusters either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Maybe a few, I have to check on that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I don't recall Obamacare being filibustered.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'oh who cares, super majority this or that, the repubs were able to prevent cloture a lot getting a blue dog democrat, thats the democrats point, the repubs point is the lack of miraculous recovery of the hole they created is totally the democrats fault since they had something like a super majority'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was, after the fact.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'either way, the repubs DID often succeed at filibustering'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hell, nobody even READ the bill until it was passed'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's because some Republicans voted with the Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But only after the Democrats were forced to gut Obamacare and remove a lot of the original legislation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'it's all like watchin wwe anyways... demo's act like they hate repubs and vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a sharp recovery wouldn't have been miraculous, except from a political viewpoint. The economic problem was really simple.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Nice dodge on the $1,000,000,000,000 deficit per year'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'nice mental trick with listing out all the 0s'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well I think people should know how much a trillion is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'Well, I'm not sure you're qualified to make such an assertion Sonshi, moreover I doubt anyone is'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all that was needed was to return the country to productivity and hang the cost.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's Romney's magical plan to get rid of that, November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Cut taxes and spending, more revenue comes in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Worked before. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I'm still waiting for the sources for that Bush EVER had a 97% approval rate, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Every single economic study on Romney's plan calls it unrealistic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It was really high.. maybe up in the 90s. I remember it just after 9/11.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'maybe for the 5 seconds between him being told about 9/11 and the realization he's holding the book uspide down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cutting taxes and spending are both not revenue-positive'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't cut taxes and spending and then expect more revenue to come in. We've had decades of Trickle Down Economics under various Republican Presidents. It didn't work then, it's not goign to work now!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'that was a smooth move by Romney suggesting Obama was all over the place, but they're both hopping from this to that'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'there it was 90% on sep. 21 2001'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'sigh, stupid ad hominens'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it might be hard for americans, but maybe their politicians need to listen to people who actually know how to run economies'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'still frighteningly high.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"There"? Where? Source?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: '25%?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Lokathor falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'Sonshi, you bring a lot of self assurance when many people are at loggerheads, experts and all, over the matter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'sonshi, first you have to get a half-decent pres which won't happen as long as the power that be stay in power'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where's your source, November? Apparently you found one. SO why not link to it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the experts are paid cronies.  NOBODY has any idea what the markets will do from day to day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the assumption is that they run the economy inexpertly by accident...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'http://www.gallup.com/poll/116500/Presidential-Approval-Ratings-George-Bush.aspx'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'last decent pres the states had was jfk'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'all the reat are puppets'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'who cares? people got behind their leader in times of trouble, thats more reflective of our collective humanity than his abilities'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '90% on sep 21 2011.. i said october, sorry was off 10 days'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '90% for, like, 2 days.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and he wasn't exactly operating with clean hands...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Ok will you shut up now :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'your boy is losing it on stage'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nope, because now we know you play loose with the facts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: '-nods anaristos- it takes a lot of soap to get cum off'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'this isn't even coherent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what we did at home was basically to assure economic entities that demand would be supported, no matter the cost. This in effect paradoxically reduced the cost of the stimulus required by restoring economic confidence, even though a stimulus as large as necessary was virtually guaranteed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'WTF do you want to talk about Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'give the man time to say something'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Bush had a 90% approval rate during a very brief window in 2001" -> "Bush had a 97% approval rate in 2001". "The Democrats had 58 seats in the Senate in 2009, with 2 Independents caucusing with them" -> "The Democrats had a Super Majority in the Senate in 2008-2010".'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, but you can't pass laws without the 2 houses...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'lol anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You do not outright lie. You just obfuscate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well a party can have 100% of all the seats in one house, but if they don't control the other...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure you can.  Executive orders.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'When did healthcare costs go down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yesterday'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they didn't, ever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He said that he SAVED money, not that the costs went down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'When did anything in cost go down in the last 4 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, an analogy - if you're a businessman with a business with 10m in revenue, 11m in spending, and 10m in debt... putting off necessary repairs isn't exactly going to instil confidence in your debt holders.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So now you're-reinterpreting what Obama says.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why would the cost go down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Good point, I guess in deflation. That's rare :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually deflation has happened in modern economies, just not often :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '715 BILLION dollars?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the cowardly brainless clueless muzzled USamericans got behind their incompetent leader in times of trouble -- that is more reflective of the incompetence and cowardice of the collective USA coerced by bullying cowardly media traitors'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'so our loss in Purchasing Power Parity slowed considerably from the 2004-2008 years, in terms of the 2nd derivative its in the positive direction, I'd shudder to think of a return to 2004-2008 policies and lose more PPP,'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, that's not a CUT. He's still using that old LIE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's NOT 716. It's 700. ANd it's not a CUT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actualy it got worse in 2008-2012. The gap between the poor and rich kept growing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'when the Arabs started pumping more oil this year to drive prices down, the US oil companies suddenly shut down all the refineries for maintenance, then when they came back online there occurred 2 major explosions at 2 refineries. Result? When the Arabs opened the spigots, gas sold in CA for 3.239 a gallon, now it is selling or 4.199 a gallon. Get the idea? '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, that's Obama's fault, November. It's his fault he's not a WIZARD.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'but Obama IS a wizard! http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/intel/2012/08/14/14-barack-obama.o.jpg/a_560x375.jpg'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Both those programs, SS and Medicare aren't long term feasible. We have to solve them. Some people will have to take it on the chin. That's the truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'GAH! My live feed is buffering!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"times of trouble" seems to be a license by the leaders and sycophant bootlickers to be tyranical incompetent greedy and brutal'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'actually, november, it was 14.2 trillion GDP as PPP in 2008, and 15.2 in 2012'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I think it went up and you're wrong, I'm looking at the graph right now'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'did the same study that gives obama his facts draw your graph?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the "2008 financial collapse" was one of the many "rewards"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, he should have at least tried to raise taxes on the rich somewhat, while embarking on infrastructure projects to soak up some "excess" labour'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'not refuting your statement, just curious'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'SOmeone give me a good live feed. Mine keeps buffering all of a sudden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'because that would hurt your credibility'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'its from CIA world factbook'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if it wouldn't have passed congress, he should've proposed something worthwhile...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'November, I'll say this for you. If you, after viewing that the Republicans have done in the last 44 years, want them in power, you are either in someone's pocket or your elevator does not open on all floors.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He believes in Trickle Down Economics, Anaristos.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I don't claim to be an expert in medicare, but it seems one reason the costs are so high is that we are spending large sums of money to prolong life by relatively short amounts'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but for all his failures, the republicans are completely off their rocker when it comes to economics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'there was an interesting article saying the rise of electronic medical health records empowered health providors to bill more effectively, ie charge more for the same amount'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'oh I saw that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, adding $6tril to the deficit is the way to go. How much further until we're Greece?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Just keep spending like there's no tomorrow eh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'same amount of service*'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but November, Clinton, a Democrat, left a surplus at the Treasury... Who followed him and not only spent all that money but drove the country into their worst deficit level?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the penalty of not spending large sums of money is to sink back into recession. Government spending IS a part of the GDP'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even comparing similar social stratas in the us to other advanced countries, the us spends more and gets less in terms of life expectancy... granted, some of this can be explained by obesity, etc. but obesity is also high in many of these other advanced countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And who followed him and added $6trillion, he's on stage now, not Clinton or Bush'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so I don't buy the argument that the cost is from spending lots to prolong life a bit'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as you well know, he followed himself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The moderator has no control over this heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and let me ask you, Mr. Republican, what was Obama supposed to do with the shit Bush left behind? Do you think that all those bank collapses were accidental? Let's not forget that his father presided over the collapse of the S&Ls, where Whacker Bush, a sibling, made out like a bandit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'give him the ability to cut off the mic'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'that would be awesome'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November things Obama had a Super Majority in the Senate in 2008-2010 (a blatant lie) and that Trickle Down Economics works. There's no helping him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the republicans believe in a government by the rich for the rich to the rich -- that the goverrnment is there to support the rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one thing I've learnt from american presidential debates is that the impression voters get from them isn't strongly correlated with who was right. I suppose that's true of limited-time, formal debates in general...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'McCain had a fine plan. Cut spending, and de-regulate. Reform healthcare through spending accounts, interstate insurance sales and tort reform'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'trickle down was implemented by Reagan (A replublican, in case you didn't know) to reward big business. Big business has not allowed crap to trickle down. Before Reagan there were no noticeable homeless, they didn't start showing up in the streets until he got re-elected.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if mccain had cut govt employment any more than obama did, the us would be close to breaking point by now...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(see Spain)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Mr. Trickle Down Economics. I'm suuuuure McCain's plan was brilliant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'debates... typically aren't about who makes the most reasoned, factual arguments'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Bringing our debt to $22 trillion which will be the case in 2016 will be much worse. Much worse. We're the world's reserve currency. No one can bail us out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"deregulation" permits crooks to be more blatant brazen and greedy -- with the government there to bail out their deliberate "mistakes", and to give them exclusive rights and tenure'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You cannot magically fix the U.S. economy as it was in 2008 in 4 or 8 fucking years!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, November, let's put it all on the table. Are you willing to claim that Bush is not the creator of the mess we are in?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not when both houses are working against you!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No one person really is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'and if the U.S. becomes the champion of austerity as the fiscal hawks want, we slide into recession and among many other  things... are rewarded with reduced tax income, thus less money'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No one is really that powerful, even a president.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but Obama is one person, or is he?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's the STUPIDEST SHIT I'VE HEARD THIS WEEK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'bush wasn't the creator, he was just a puppet like obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Oh he's not fully to blame either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but Obama is the president, isn't he? And you just blame that one single person for the troubles we are in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's OBAMA's fault the economy hasn't been fixed yet, but it's NOT Bush's personal fault that the economy is in the dumps!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'no I don't not entirely'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if romney wins, I fear it may be the end of the weimar republic all over again...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'then why do you keep saying Obama this and Obama that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The debt spending really began in 2006... with Pelosi'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Because Obama is on TV irght now Anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, because you're a hypocrite, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'and he's supposed to Lead people out of troubles'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, romney's the one speaking now though!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He is NOT a fucking wizard.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It was a split screen sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, Pelosi. Because the virtuous republicans oppose spending... so let me ask you... Whose ideas was to open up the 2 military fronts that have driven the country into such debt? Please be specific, name names.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did Mittens just say that RomneyCare was good?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did he just go there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'our counrty spends more money on the military than the next top 20 nations combined... now there's an area we can reduce spending on a bit'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'BUsh added $4 trillion in 8 years, Obama $6 trillion in 4. He could have cut that in half like he promised... '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but we had to get the WMDs from Irak.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'well as someone IN the military, we could talk about what is getting cut :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If he HADN'T bailed out all of those companies, the entire world would be in a DEPRESSION right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, the world is at peace, time to cut spending on defense of the only superpower that keeps peace.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Oh wait, it's not. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, are you just willfully ignorant or are you actually medically retarded?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you blame Obama for the 6, but not Bush for the 4. Let me ask you, had Bush not spent the 4 what would have happened?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Why is this about bush?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'nobody is saying bush didn't fuck shit up. bush was a horrible president. next topic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'This is about the big-O he's running for pres, not Bush'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'maybe if the US didn't keep picking fights...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November is clearly not blaming Bush.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The US has done more good on the foreign stage than bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, for one, if he hadn't run a large deficit, the US might have ceased to exist as a country...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(again, see Spain)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I never said military spending isn't important, november. But the question is, where do we stop? We spend 5 times as much as the #2 ranked military nation. Is all this firepower really necessary? Especially among all these economic problems?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'good? since when?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'well the #2 nation isn't a superpower..... yet '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'ww2?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'well, depends on if that firepower saves MY life or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '*wink*'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'we can reduce military spending and still BY FAR be the most powerful military on the planet'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That's actually all correct, what Romney said. I remember it well. Not one vote. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the FUCK is Romney talking about?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'November, the concept that military might is the great defence of the US is bullshit.  The US has nukes, no country is going to fight a war with them on home turf.  The US military is a foreign police force and domestic suppression force ONLY.  It has NO other reason for existing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'the US has fewer nukes than you think.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"We passed the EXACT SAME LEGISLATION, but we did it with bipartisan support, but you did it with Democrqat support only":'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Isn't that an indictment of the REPUBLICAN party?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They have enough to wipe out the world, why would they need more?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Who said we should build more?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'BTW they have to be maintained.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'how many, november?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Meaning it doesn't matter if they have less than I think, they have enough that my assessment still stands.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'let me be specific about Bush, the asshole claimed, knowing  that he was wrong, that Irak had WMDs, thus condemning that country to 100 of thousands of deaths and a ruined country, additionally, without any legal proof  (or even any intelligence proof) accused Afghanistan for 9/11 and opened another military front, even though the Taliban, hoping to avert the invasion, offered to turn over Bin Laden. All documented. You add to that that all his (and Chany's) cronies gained an immense wealth from these 2 military fronts, how in hell can you act as if the guy wasn't a fuck.  '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Republicans did NOT have a plan. And how the FUCK was it bipartisan if it was "swept aside"?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'is that plain enough for you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well of course that's not public knowledge. BUt, Obama has been reducing our nuke supply.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Source or stfu. Also, do they have enough to wipe out the world? If so, again your point is simple bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, are you a Birther?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'What point is that? No one said we should build more nukes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No, the point that military spending is important'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, are you a Birther?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'We currently have close to 1200 nukes. Obama wants to reduce that to 350. 350 isn't enough to spread within the nuclear triad to maintain enough platforms to accomplish the needed missions, let alone those that are destroyed by a surprise attack'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, why does the US need more nukes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'they don't need more, but they don't need to reduce them'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who is the enemy, November? I am curious.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Never said they did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'We dont need more, but we dont need less either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'nukes are simply a detterent force. a STRONG deterrent force'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you only need to make certain that a few will survive a first strike to ensure that no country in their right mind would want to start anything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'please don't tell me about threats of nuclear attacks, when history has shown that the only country willing to use those devices is the US. I am willing to be, from available evidence, that things have not changed in that regard.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So here we go - I say the US military spending is purely for foreign policing and domestic suppression, as the nukes are enough to deter any foreign power. Which means military spending is NOT needed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Deterrence prevented the Cold War from becoming a hot war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and if they're nuts, 10 or 10 million wouldn't make a difference to their calculations...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, are you a Birther?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US could be a total paradise if they cut military spending to merely beat the #2 by $1'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Exactly how small should the military be, and when Iran launches a nuke at Eastern Europe, should the US stop that? We spilled a lot of blood defending Europe..'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Enlighten me Yuna. What is a Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why are you refusing to answer that very simple question?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the Cold War was just big business for both countries. It certainly fueled their economies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gallius: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, until one ran out of fuel'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'ill check it out. afk'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Yuna wants to see the long form birth certificate" (of the birther)  (unless Yuna meant B'nai Brither)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'any rogue nation fires a nuke at another country, and no one will need another casus belli...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, Iran's leaders have said repeatedly openly and publically that they want to nuke Israel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's a very simple question, November. Do you believe President Barack Obama is a natural-born citizen of the United States?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes or No?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'They may be lying, but I don't know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you say "leaders" like they're all agreed'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well they have only one real spokesperson :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What they SAID was that IF the U.S. attacks Iran, they will RETALIATE by nuking Israel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If and when Iran launches a nuke, the US has more than enough military to stop them.  Even with that 'beat the #2 by a mere $1' reduction, they have enough might (and an entire world backing them) that Iran would fall in hours, not days or weeks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'their chief ayatollah or whatever is opposed, for one'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why don't they check Rumney's citizenship? After all his old man wasn't born in the US...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Not if we reduce nukes to zero Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Yuna, are you an (expletive deleted)"  is similar to "November, are you a birther"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And reduce military spending to zero'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody's fucking trying to reduce the U.S.'s nukes to zero.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or military spending to zero. Stop LYING.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'to 350'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Nobody said 0/0, the fuck is wrong with your eyes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Exactly my point, I never said we should increase military spending. Just maintain it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Everybody loves a strawman.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav tickles Remember November.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In November's eyes, 90% is the same as 97%, 58 the same as 60 and 350 the same as 0.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And *I* said reduce it to beat #2 by $1 - how about you argue the points people are making, instead of the fairies in your head'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you think the use should spend 1,500,000,000,000 USD on weapons, but shit on health care... I get your point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xyliz gets out a bucket of hot tar, a bag of feathers, a railway timetable, and looks at Yuna
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Conservative here: military spending would do well to be reduced. But so does nearly every form of spending the Liberals support. we just need less spending.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'at what point do we stop paying for people?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Why are we paying for people?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'healthcare, wellfare, all that stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'when is it too much?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Look, having a strong military means that the US can maintain peace. Now, it means that we get to decide what that is. However, which other country would you want as a superpower? North Korea?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the miliary, as bloated as it is, can be considered a form of welfare, since many of the members end up living on the streets after discharge.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US can maintain peace, eh? How is that going for you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'North Korea can never be a superpower. It's run by clowns on smoke and mirrors.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'It is already. Thats why we're collapsing economically'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Not well in the last 4 years...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there hasn't been peace since the collapse of the USSR :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually entitlement spending is much more than military spending. (usdebtclock.org)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pretty sure from Kosovo through Iraq, the US was at war all through Bush.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'right, so, when is entitlement spending supposed to be capped?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And right back, all the way to WWII - the US got a taste of military imperialism with Monroe, and never looked back'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'We should curve it .. means many people who are younger will not get their benefit. What is the alternative? a very weak military? collapse of economy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US has invaded Grenada, Panama, Yugoslavia, Iraq and Afghanistan. It has  also collaborated to destabilize Syria and Lybia... I hardly think that was a model for peace. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'I think we have peace. The middle eastern wars are so quiet compared to previos wars. Quit whining, citizens.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck do you call the Vietnam war?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The U.S. being present as an observer?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The middle east is falling apart. Egypt actually is concerning me more than Iran.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '(recently)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, if you live in the US there is relative peace, but ask the people where the US military is now how peaceful they think things are...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Not our fault.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'November, the US could be in the black a few times over if they only cut military to...once again...$1 over the #2 spot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what you mean that the people in Iraq dragged the US soldiers by the ears and told them to invade them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Exactly how much of the military would have to be eliminated to do that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, now he's talking about religious freedom and tolerance.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Poor, poor middle-aged white Christian man. He's soooooo persecuted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They get to keep their 'biggest in the world' penis contest, AND get to spend more money on actual important shit, like NASA, health, infrastructure, education.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Bush increased edcuation spending at the federal level more than clinton did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Life is a penis contest. There's no escaping it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, he wants Protestants to be tolerated, the rest, well you've heard of Joan D'Arc, haven't you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's a Mormon, not a Protestant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What the US needs to wake up to, being a good 50 years and still no light bulb, is that fighting without annihilating only creates issues in the future.  And their populace won't support annihilating, so they need to back the fuck off and simmer down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'My question on entitlements is this, when you give too many people too many free rides, eventually everyone one wants a free ride right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean I want my obamaphone now..'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the robotic-warfare technology means that eventually the citizens of the USA may be suppressed by (say) Corporations manufacturing and controlling the robotics-warefare '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I want my free birth control too'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'I think that's part of the problem now. everyone wants their cut'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Yes November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Free this and that.. "free"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'greed plays a huge roll in the problems with our economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Time for people to start payin for shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'There reaches a point where there are too many entitlements and I have to tell you, its much worse than defense spending.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The unfunded pension plans are how many trillions now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And anyone with a brain can tell you you are wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Military spending in the US is by FAR their biggest bill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hey, that lady got an obamaphone, I want one too :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'More than SS + Medicare + Pensions?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what's the ratio, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '(unfunded pensions)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'SS is not a government spend, SS was paid for by those who now get it back'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sum up what everyone thinks their fair share is, and you've got twice what the country has.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'source'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'isn't the SS fund bankrupt?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is this the last segment?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yes Flip, because it was raided for other shit, like the Military'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'OK here we go, CBO facts:'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Medicate 760 billion, SS 774 Billion, Pensions 212 Billion.. defense 664 billion'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the left think it's fairer for the poor to receive more, while the right favours the rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'so it's not funded by those that paid for it before'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '774+760+212 > 664'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'So wheres my obamaphone?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'the militar stole it'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'er, military'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah they sent it to Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually I have no problem with that. The only reasonable plan to Iran is to let the people win back their own govenrment (probably through violence, unforutnately).'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Redistribution of Wealth. SS. Socialism. Communism. All welcome in the orgy of economic collapse.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'When that happened a few years ago, Obama kept silent on that one. He could have stood up as a leader and said, "rise up! take your freedom now! We support you!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'but he did not'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'so to pay off the debt, we need to spend less. where do the cuts come from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'more expensive healthcare? military cuts? less welfare checks?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'AND cut taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'we're writing bigger checks than our economy can cash'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how do you fix that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'serious question'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'Stop writing checks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'OK well first, on SS.. many people will have to not get their benefit back, so privatize it and then end the program within 30 years without causing a major social calamity'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you think that Romney is going to cut taxes for the middle class let me show you a bridge I have for sale.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'no solution?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'not even a suggestion?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'now is not the time to cut spending. You need to raise taxes on high income groups if you want to get a handle on the defeicit. Bleed away excess wealth that isn't getting spent, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'll trade you my tower for your bridge, Anaristos.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'STOP WRITING CHECKS'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Cutting taxes and spending will increase revenue into the government, and a balanced budget we will have'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the rich do not care whether the checks are unable to be cashed, as long as they don't bounce and the taxpayers is left with the tab'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(deficit)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he, like his predecessors, would ease taxes for the upper level people end-of-task.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well exactly how much should we take from them? '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'SHUT UP, Mittens.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Sonshi, do you think raising taxes on folks that create jobs is the answer? serious question'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Because when we do, it will all be gone and no more rich people we will have.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama TRIED to create bipartisanship. YOUR PARTY refused!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'So who else will we hit then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taxation on the rich needs to be increased, along with infrastructure spending, in order to avoid long term economic damage.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'yeah, Harry Reid is the epitiomy of bipartisianship'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Flip, trickle down theory says that if we ease taxing the "job creators" they profits would find the way down to the masses... how is that theory working out?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'flip - yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Heh, Romney will have a busy first day.. a lot of things to undo. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Fortunately waivers were built into that law'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Romney has already been unmanned so most of his work is done :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'from a practical standpoint, that's what needs to be done, whatever you may feel is morally "right"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He rarely credits bush, but his first call after bin laden was dead was to bush'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'when you are among the rich and own tangible assests that do not depreciate with inflation, there is no fear of monetary collapse, as they shall be richer than the those that are poorer-- business as usual'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'taxing profits only doesn't kill jobs, because wages factor into things not being profits'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well actually you and I have a different view on rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really, so let me ask you this, November? Afghanistan and the Sudan both offered bush to arrest Bin Laden... Why did he refuse?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the chief problem facing businesses now is weak demand. That critical problem is easy to solve, and ought to be solved, as soon as possible. Which was 2 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(weak aggregate demand, rather)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'You see, if someone works hard and saves $0.10 per dollar that they earn and then makes wise decisions in life. They build it up and make $1,000,000 by the time they retire. They're rich. And you want to take that away from them. Why? They played the game right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no matter how low your taxes are, you won't build a new factory/office/outlet if not enough people are buying your stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'They paid taxes their whole life, gave to charity too..'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I assume you have been drinking, November. So I will ignore that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'This is not a bad person whose wealth should be taken away. They were thrifty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'well we don't tax savings, so your story is stupid'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it's up to you if you want to wreck your country by letting them keep all of their gains...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'we only tax new money'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Nope, but you want to tax my income on that $1,000,000 I have'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '100%? 75%?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are trying to portray all the giant corporations that will cease paying taxes with someone who is thrifty?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what does the constitution say about taxes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I think there's common ground on closing tax loopholes for the rich. But, if there's a deficit neutral way to do it while lowering tax rates, why hasn't it already been done?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'the income on 1mil is like, however much per year. if you make X per year you get taxed at that rate regardless of if it's interest or wages'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, smart corporations like Apple made the right business calls. Why should they be punished for success? (Apple took a while hehe)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Man I remember them in the 90s.. we didnt know how long they'd last'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it says nothing about taxes, Flip, it does speak about tithes...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and while many countries have tax exemptions for charities to encourage charitable giving, I think that such giving should be done with purely your own money, without tax incentives...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Me too Sonshi, but we need to reform the tax code. Its a huge sink hole of $'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'they're not punished at all! everyone gets taxed equally on the first dollar they make, and everyone is taxed equally on the billionth dollar they make. Not my fault that some people don't make a billionth dollar and you end up thinking it's unfair'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why not give them your firstborn while you're at it? Don't want to? Why do you want to punish their success? Do you hate them that much?!?!?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, but you don't think that everyone shouldering the tax burden is a good idea, you want the people at the bottom to actually do the supporting while those at the top pay jack.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well its because you want to fund Obamaphone and make more Obamaphone voters'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'yes sonshi, i want to take their children and turn them into my cyborg army of bible burners'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obamaphone! :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if Mitt Romney is required to pay mare than 15% tax, "November" is suggesting the taxrate is likely to be raised to at least 50% or 75% on the thrifty <-- republican paranoia-logic '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He gave 30% of his income to charity'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '15% to uncle sam'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'the country has done well with 50% as the upper bracket in the past, no reason it can't do well in the future'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the lower classes are the ones that wind up giving their lives to defend what the upper class have... if we're talking about morals, I don't see why the top shouldn't be called upon for a bit more sacrifice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hey I'm all for closing loop holes in the tax code, even replacing it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but as a practical matter, they'll wind up having to sacrifice more, lose it all, or flee, in the end.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'most of the charity contributions likely go to pay for the salaries and bonuses of those running the "charities"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That's debatable. One of my Charities, Food for the Poor was investigated and found that they only keep 3%'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are undoubtedly many shady charities used in large part to exploit the tax code...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That's pretty good actually as an overhead.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'further, if you have millions or billions to protect that you're making *each year*, then you better be invested in the federal gov and stat govs being strong and protecting you. If you want no taxes and no government influence, go to somalia, they've got that there'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'probably none of the large ones, but...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is no actually difference except that US taxes are not payed by all equitably.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Here come the pundits.. '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'so glad the media is here to tell us another majro thing wrong with our country.... right after the debate...they tell us what to think'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Oh and yes you will tax my $1,000,000 savings by the way.. death tax. :P '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'god forbid!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Seems like all you really want to do is discourage me from being thrifty and smart. SO wheres my obamaphone!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'because the more money you die with .... profit?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Nope, 75% goes to charity.. 25% to family'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'estate taxes prevent a nobility class from forming and killing the american dream. sorry i'm not sorry that i wanna stop that'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'People should ge thelp in your family but not a free ride'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'further, the estate tax only hits estates of over 5 million, so no, your 1 mil is safe'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, that can easily change if the country runs out of $.. you'll just lower it and lower it.. and then it will be gone'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yet most people will amass fortunes, which combined with low capital gains, means you create a functional aristocracy after awhile, and was one group gets more of the percentage of the economy's specie, it devalues the other group, not really a free market principal'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well Im not defending that, but hey remember that most rich people invest their money.. and that goes to our economy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'so because a tax might get higher, we can't ever have it?! DAMNIT no taxes ever i guess, because a 1% tax might go up if the country hurts, and it might get to 120% potentially'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'you're against death taxes, I vote democrat for three reasons, capital gains, gays, and separation of church and state.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't forget not being a racist or hating women, Milkshake.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'death taxes + Capital gains + reasonable progressive tax = ie no aristocracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'My question is, I paid taxes on those earnings. Why should I pay a death tax again and why do you have a right to my money?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'that comes under separation of church and state and the gay column, I Should rename it to bigotry in general'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'mmmmmm.... gay columns.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'the idea that you can do nothing and invest 200 million dollars in the S&P 500 and never ever do shit but make more and more money and only pay 8% once your capital has been in the stocks for a few years... is insane'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and the republicans wnat to lower it further'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Under the Paul Ryan plan, which the Republicans will try to pass, Romney would pay an effective tax rate of 1%.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'money gets "double taxed" all the time, sales tax on income. its a lame argument.  And why do we have the right? well why do you have the right to use a car, to breathe, to not be speaking german?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the question is... Why should it matter what the skin color of the candidate is?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It should not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But, Democrats keep talking about it all the time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I dont know why...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When do the Democrats keep talking about skin color, November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop LYING.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean its so 1960.. that's like 2 generations ago?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's a non-issue, just as the religion or even sexual preference is. It's a way to obfuscate the issues.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US is obsessed with skin color... and they take that disease everywhere they go.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Romney was a better story teller than Obama, very unusual .. that's Obama's strength.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'these are issues, people really do want theocractic changes, people really are affected by race, sexual preference, classicism'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'other people really don't want theocratic changes'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, they are, Milkshake. In the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'oh hey its our election, thanks for watching'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you what you mean is, "We are bigots and proud of it"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'no, I mean, every country has issues, you shouldn't downplay someone's issues'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'they need to be delt with, not dismissed'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so I should be tolerant of bigotry  because other countries have their own brand of assholeiness?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'didn't say that'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'you said "its a non-issue" I took issue with that, it is an issue, for us'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is a non-issue, if you think that skin color is a factor then you have a problem.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Some do Anaristos, but it really should be a non-issue, I agree'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I agree it should be a non-issue, but it isn't, and it shoudln't be dismissed casually like that, it doesn't advance it becomign a non-issue imo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'within the context of american politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'When Obama became president, I remember all my liberal friends ganging around the TV watching it. And I passed by and said what the big deal was. They said a black person was going to be president. I said, why does it matter if he was black? So, as a conservative, I'm telling you most of us never think race when we talk to people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yet, it keeps coming up, as if we can't let it go.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Let the past die, with the past on this one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'it does matter, image matters, role models matter, the notion that we can get over ingrained prejudices matters'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you don't dismiss it you elevate its importance. You are saying "we shouldn't be bigots, but since we are, we must consider the candate's skin color"... in other words, rather than change such uncivilized attitudes you think they should be given a place of honor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'people's self confidence and self-perceptions are directly tied to their performance'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not in the US, that's not true, and that can be easily shown.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I've heard that argument, but I think its reducto ad absurdem, putting your head in the sand'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Look I think its fantastic that a black person could become president in this country, yes. But he's not special because he's black. He's a man first, President next.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'and thats it'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'its still a powerful moment to think that race didn't prevent him being elected, you're thinking its tied to him as a person, but I was touched that he won for that very reason, it wasn't about his politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and it didn't give me faith in him'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'it engendered faith in the american people'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'personally, I don't think it is relevant that Obama has dark skin, I don't think how that improves or detracts from his performace. Neither the fact that Romney doesn't have dark skin improves or detracts from his.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'racial-color does factor into voting-preferences, since most USA voters look at how clueless, corrupt, greedy, lazy, incompetent, inept, etcetera, the cadidate is likely to be from racial-profiling and personal-experience'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'or whether either is Protestant or Catholic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'shit its amazing white people are still getting elected, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if that is true Xyliz, then Obama will be elected. Racial profiling would yield the fact that most white president the US has had has raped the country'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Nixon was white, so if we use Nixon as an example a white president shouldn't get elected again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'heh, I wonder how good a president nixon would be perceived as if it weren't for watergate'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The liberal press did a disservice to Obama tonight. They never hit him with hard questions. Neither did McCain. Finally someone did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Watergate wasn't his doing so he was what he was with or without it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'november you strike me as a person very impressed with appearance.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the voters are looking at the profiles of the poorer coloreds, not the presidents (and white Clinton was superior to Obama) '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what are the "coloreds"? I don't understand the term...'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, Joe the Plumber did too. See, you get too soft. Have any of you guys seen Newsroom?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'what do you mean, anaristos, it was his undoing? why he was almost impeached, there were friggin tapes of him knowing about it before hand'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'coloreds = black people in very old american colloquialisms'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'colored are nonwhites, (ince "blacks" are not black)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as little as I think of Nixon I will accept the fact that he was set up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but whites are not really white either, only albinos are white and they can be from any race.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'the tapes that were recorded before it occured of him discussing the action aren't even suggestive, anaristos?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"whites" are whiter  than  "blacks" are black'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'don't forget he one drop rule'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he was certainly guilty of a cover-up, but he really didn't see it as having a choice because either way he would be crucified, and he was correct.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'thats insane, if he had come out and crucified people who did something very bad that he learned about that would have been to his benefit'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I think he would have been fine'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'watergate was really a coup d'etat, when you look at it from far enough away, Agnew was also deposed, leaving an executive branch not elected by the people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I didn't say that Nixon was wise, just that he was paranoid.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Xyliz, have you looked at a color chart lately, neither skin color can be found in one. Neither group is either black or white.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I should rephrase that, an executive branch not elected by the states.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the people don't elect the president :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, that's right. One of these days we'll have a rogue voter in the EC and that will cause its demise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we don't have to wait that long, it is quite possible for an elected president to lose the popular vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because the people don't elect the president. EC or no EC.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'there were already rogue voters in the EC'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it would take a huge constitutional reform to change the process and the amendment would not pass, of that I am sure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, dont recall the last time it happened, but its happened a few times.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it actually happend in 2000 :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if the people don't elect the president, then why have the vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'happened*'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I don't know, both parties have got to be fed up with the difficulty of hyper regional campaigning, or maybe they like it that way, only have to work so hard in a few states'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the people  vote for a slate'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a slate of delegates'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and the delegates nearly always vote the same way, and most states are winner take all, so if you get a majority in that state, you win the EC votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'practically the states vote according to the popular vote of the resident voters, but the constitution doesn't require that they do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'the president is almost always popularly elected'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'except for the infamous 2000 election'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The reason why Obama lost is because he had no teleprompter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That magical voice to tell you what to say.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'he was lookin down at something a lot'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'ZING'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Lol, I really wonder who writes the teleprompter words some time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'seriously  November, my god, why don't you go to some hip hop court and tell your momma jokes, its so enriching your sense of the world'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Bruce Almighty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Look, I'm just saying Obama is a little dependent on that thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more than a little'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'at least he appears to be on recovery.  It used to be fairly obvious when he wasn't using it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and I'm just saying you keep bringing up personal digs, style, appearance, and "zingers" and I think it drains all discourse and makes for a very unpleasant conversation,  go back to supply reasons for why his policy sucks, please'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'this is a mud channel.  There's really no reason whatsoever to pour your heart and soul into something highly unrelated to your purpose for logging in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'an "uncle tom" requires to be told what to say, so as to please and not offend the white massahs'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Did he use a teleprompter when he gave that speech in New Orleans, the one that resurfaced yesterday?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'my purpose for logging in was to discuss the debates with people who can read :) since mudding is sort of a litmus test for that thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's like depending on The Onion for all your news needs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and otehrwise why have this channel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think anyone who can shuffle their feet while kissing someone's ass is very talented :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I like The Onion :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'OK Milkshake, what did you think of the debate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I like The Onion :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'which middle east country's gov responded to the onion as if was real?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'We're meta-debating now. Debating on the debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you have to admit The Onion looks real :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'would you like it if it turned serious and went up against Sean Hannity and such?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I think Romney did present better, in general. but I don't think thats connected to substance, and if you just drained it of ideas and placed it in the context of what I believe, I think he did much worse, but thats my political opinions against his "substance"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'sorry drained it, and only ideas remained'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, you and Yuna? pointed out you can't make a lot of substence in 2 minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And Romney got 4 minutes less.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'So, go to their web site, read it and make a decision.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'At least there, they can take their time and so can you'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'what I woudl really like to see is a fight between a naked sean hannity, glenn beck, sarah palin, and rush limbaugh in a giant mud pit to the death with only one person surviving'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And this has to do with the debate how?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'uhhhhh, they both put a lot of substance into the debate I felt, as much as can be put into that format I think'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'politics aside, why would you ever want to see Limbaugh NAKED?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I don't know, why do people like to watch train wrecks?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I would have liked to see Gary Johnson up there.  I think he'd have completely upstaged Romney as a fiscal conservative'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it'd be worse than that old fat guy from Borat.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Look, I'm not saying Romney did a great job. But, if his goal was to look better than Obama then I think it worked. Even the pundits on MSNBC think so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But, debates rarely ever change outcomes of elections.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yeah, I'm gay I was simultaneously disgusted and laughing at that scene'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Kerry won 2/3 debates with Bush, he still lost.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '(thats an opinion)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'right, but I don't think look better is the principal point of a debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and most people do'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its all about looking good, has been since Nixon v. Kennedy in my opinion'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it is.  JFK overwhelming proved that point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But one thing this debate will do, unequivocally'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'no I think there are a lot of people (not all) who really do read between the lines, really tease out what was said,  and those people usually conclude that its not a dense medium and go somewhere else haha'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It will give Romney some needed momentum.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It will energize the GOP.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'but I remember I was very swayed by the clinton vs bush debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I really doubt debates energize a political base'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Romney had less time, but you see, he's clever, he knows not to whine a lot to the moderator. Its image.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its not substence, you cant cover 83 issues in 38 minutes in detail.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'uhhhh he did whine, a lot, I disagree there'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that sounds a lot like "the non-accusatory knuckle shake really turned me on!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'talking about how all over the place his opponent was (and he was too) and he did disagree with the mod, they both did some whining'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'intrade has Romney at 32.8% I think that's fair. 35% is probably more like it. We'll see the fall out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'wait 32.8% of what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'a +3% boost immediately'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Chance of winning to intrade'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'winnign the debate? good god, does winning just mean "you won more votes?"'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'no, overall'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'go to www.intrade.com'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'the whole election?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, thats what the trade is for :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: '.... this is real money voting?'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hehe, yep. Go check it out :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I am'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'interesting'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'selection bias though, only people who are attracted to betting are going to put in trades'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'hehe, I love it when someone first finds this site, their reaction'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and/or have disposable income'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and/or don't have too much disposable income'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well you can buy a Romney share for $3.30... no $3.32.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'thats less than a gallon of gas'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'even so , some people are resolutely against anything resembling gambling, and that alone might correlate with voting patterns'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hmm, gambling? Its not chance.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its more like betting how smart you are'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It wont cap 35.. polls usually drive this rate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'its not chance who wins the sports game, nor how the dice rolls in a craps game, its just physics, but we still call it gambling because nobody knows the answer and we model it with probabilities'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually, in GB versus Seattle it is chance '
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Whoever the ref happens to be hehe'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'haha'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But yes, generally sports is skill'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hey I'm a 21 year GB fan.. and I have to tell you, it took a lot of grace to let that one go.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'sports is genetics'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'not to mention selection bias against people without computers'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'or people who aren't computer savvy likely'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'before you scream bias due to it being on nytimes...., I sort of like http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/ because its poll aggregation'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Democrats have 60 seat supermajority link: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/did-the-democrats-ever-really-have-60-votes-in-the-senate-and-for-how-long/'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Bush had 92% approval rating in october 2001: http://voices.washingtonpost.com/behind-the-numbers/2007/07/approval_highs_and_lows.html. There's your proof. Now, I said 97% and I was off by 5%, and that's almost within the margin of error. Apologies for that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Did I miss any other fact that I sited? I was getting innudated with questions / comments.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gallius: 'dead channel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'alas, the horse has already been beaten to death...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nocturnus: 'oh dear lord did Romney wipe the floor with Obama last night'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have not seen the debate yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Did you want to see it first before bringing it up here?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I am not worried about spoilers :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Heh, true, its not exactly an episode of Lost or 24.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Wow, the GOPers are energized today. 2 donations per second on mittromney.com. Unknown how much to the super-pacs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Debates don't usually swing elections, but they can energize.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might help in swing states'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obamaphone muppets wouldn't understand the debate anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Maybe. He still has an uphill climb. Honestly Tigernuts, if he makes it seem he's connected with people (esp. Ohio) and he's the guy, he can do it. Not easy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But, he's got a momentum *started*.. has to build on it you know?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm in the UK, but I made a point of listening to the debate at work today'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'What was your opinion?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney didn't come across remotely as bad as people like Sonshi and Yuna make out'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i couldn't get behind his foreign policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i agree with the majority of pundits, that obama was slaughtered'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, debates honestly in America aren't about issues or even honesty. Its about style, grace, appearance. At least, since Nixon vs JFK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '(in my opinion)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would have been better had the other two candidates been in it'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'it's always easier attacking than defending, even more so now when the world is in a regression'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Which ones?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Johnson and the Green party lady (forget her name)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No one is going to vote for them in any significant numbers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, they never get a platform because they're not allowed in the debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'All third parties can do is just affect an outcome between the big two.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Perot'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and because the election system is set up for two parties'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Sometimes, a whole lot (e.g. 1890s)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's set up for 2 parties because the two parties have made it such'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Perot might have won had he not quit halfway'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'duh'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But, America has always had two parties after the re-forming of the Democrats in the 1890s.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well when the establishments makes threats against the life of your family members, it loses it's appeal'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'oops, 1830s :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama looked stressed without a telepromter. He looked disinterested, not really focused. People pick up on this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that and his policies are crap'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Like a, ok, just give me four more years, lets get on with it, its over, sigh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of61E1FesPU'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I wanted to hear his southern accent last night. It didn't happen.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama is great when he has a prepared speech. He's no Bill Clinton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'He's convincing, even if you disagree with him, you have to give him that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'But, speeches? not sure that will cover it this time around.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I guess we'll see! :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not american, i'm a cynical libertarian brit, you won't convince me with style and polish'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obama talks too much and goes into too much pointless detail...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'any country outside america is doomed if romney wins'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in a debate, that's not very good'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I feel sorry for whats happened to your country, Tigernuts - politically speaking.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Ashiya ponderingly.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my country is already screwed'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and probably if Obama wins too..'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'If I was a citizen of the UK, I'd probably be like you. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has little to do with obomney'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'for reasons not connected to either candidate'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doesn't have quite the same gift of lying confidently through his teeth'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are few like me here, they're all stupid or sheeple'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'lol obomney'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well obomney is because they're the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'robama'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, the CFR puppet'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one's worse'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I love using the "O" in all kinds of things: obummer, obamacare, otaxocare, obalogney, uh-o, hehe'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the same, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Ooh, Obamaphone!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pick your poison, one tastes of strawberry, one tasts of apple'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obamaphone!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one want to cut taxes on the rich further, for example...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yes, I love obamaphone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can't really call them the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I want an obamaphone. Does it call Obama, or is it just free?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama's foreign policy is walk softly and don't do anything until 3 weeks after something happens, though'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'mis :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I want a way to ask for more, like Oliver.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama's policy is "pull the troops out" by arming Syrians and Libyans with the CIA'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'oh wait'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Can I have summore?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama's foreign policy is to be at war with the middle east and try to pretend you're not'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're already at war with Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, and his foreign policy is sounder too! Often times, doing nothing is wiser, and takes more courage...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Basically speaking.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have the CIA debasing their currency by printing fake currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'That's true. Israel may not be able to strike Iran without our ACs in the Persian Gulf.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have secret service blowing up power lines and sabotaging power stations'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Bernanke's blowing up the "real" fiat currency on the other end'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'This is going to happen folks, next year likely, unless we can get the Iranian people to do it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have sanctions cutting off resources'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get Iranian people to do -what- exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Rise up, like they did in 2009.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'They almost won the capital over.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '... had Obummer supported them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sabotage isn't exactly war... it's something rivals do all the time... it may not be right, but it's the usual state of affairs'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran hasn't sabotaged USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Iran?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Try Khomeini, 1970s'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'This is the best way I can think of solving it.. can't think of another better one. Sanctions don't work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they try all the time...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and we should point out that it was the USA and UK that essentially causeed this Iranian regime'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they just have fewer resources, see...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think we should drop 1000s of Obamaphones to the Iranian people and see if they can social network and organize some sort of revolution.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran had voted in a very popular SECULAR guy in democratic elections in the 50s'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'called Muhammed Mossadeq (spelling prob wrong)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA/UK hated it because he wanted to nationalise the oil industry'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(which they had large stakes in)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so they organised a coup'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was called Operation Ajax'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wiki it'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah but they have a lot less oil now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'arm the insurgents, install democracy, install capitalism, refuse to leave, ???, profit'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, this is exactly why they need to support the democrats in libya and not damage them until the jihadists take over...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Oh wait, that's Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a result, the regime they put in was deposed in 1979 in the revolution by the iranian people, bringing in the regime they have now'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, wait, Syria'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so OIL again'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not security'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not threats'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Hey, you guys are all making a great case for voting Romney. He wants the US to have energy independence. That would mean, we can finally get out of the Middle East for good. No incentive, other than to help Israel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like Iraq'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like Syria'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And Kuwait'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like Afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And Haiti'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'But not Cuba'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran should have the nuke'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to protect themselves, since they're ringed by enemies'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the Us cannot have energy independence under the gop platform...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Would they use it though, on offense Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hell no, november, it'd be suicide for them to use it'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Through hezbollah, or delivered through Syria.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, let me ask you this then,'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only way to do that is to go all out on renewables'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We tried that in the 1900s Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Pinkertons didn't like it'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Iran is run by people who are True Believers in the Islamic faith, who would see the opportunity to eliminate the Zionists at the cost of themselves to be a worthy, martyrable cause'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'What do you make of Ahmadimejad (I'm a nut job?) when he says, openly and publically, that he wants to destroy Israel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the view of most Iranians'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Do you believe him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, the view of most Iranians is irrelevant unless they have the Big Red Button'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'well romney thinks russia is the number 1 geopolitcal enemy, that's good for the future :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe him, i don't believe he would nuke them because that's not what he wants'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his believes that the state of israel shouldn't exist'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'isn't ahmadimejad just a figurehead?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you know what? he's right'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'israel was essentially stolen by the British in the 1920s'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't their land to give'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'OK what would you do with the 2+ million Israelis there who want to live in peace?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'If Iran just did something offensive to them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'If?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if little nuclear/nearnuclear states like DPRK, Iran, Israel, were to disappear, I think a lot of people would breathe a sigh of relief...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd leave it to them'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, attacked them and threatened their existence?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just remember the only country that's only used nuclear weapons...twice'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you could resettle them in wales or something!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When November met Tigernuts. This should be rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Ok, so to you, Isreal should just stand alone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, you still haven't answered the question of whether or not you're a Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the middle east is pretty easy, really, you have Western-aided Sunni's against Russian backed Shi'ites'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problems exist because we're involved'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'If the UK was attacked by anyone for any reason, should the US or Israel help out?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Would you want that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for as long as we're involved, there'll be problems'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Should? It's not a choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The U.S. is a corporation of the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's up to them, November'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No, my question is, would you want help if it was offered?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'OK, Israelis would probably want the US to help them if Iran attacked them. And, I think we should.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'If they wanted it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's your perogative'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but don't pretend that it's a cut and dry moral case'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'People got to stick together you know?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're threatening each other'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmmm... turkish military authorised to strike syria at will'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): A Little Johns is agreeing with that Remember November person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I saw that Sonshi. Syria and Lebanon are in bad shape.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, why isn't the UN taking Turkey to task for that? It's against the law'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'What now 20,000 dead there in a civil war?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'UN urges de-escalation'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'talk about selective judgement'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's "against the law"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Try Rwandan genocide for de-escalation'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they can't do anything to turkey... the UN is all talk'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's against UN laws to attack another country other than in self defence'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because Turkey apparently authorized their forces to strike Syria at will?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then what the FUCK do you call the Iraqi War?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'besides, turkish civilians were killed first...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iraq war was illegal too'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so it is self-defence'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as was Afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as was Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, it's not against the LAW.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might notice that UN is a bunch of hypocrites'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's against an agreement that said countries signed onto, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's against U.N. "rules".'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'technically, they could've considered it an act of war and declared on syria as a defensive war...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, anything you sign constitutes law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it constitutes international law'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It isn't. You see, the US, UK, Canada, and New Zealand all owe each other a joint debt of aid based on what we did in the 1940s. We always will. If one is threatened by any other, with permission of the attacked, all the others should join and aid them - with every man, woman, gun, weapon they have.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'sorry for the long one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No it doesn't!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, it does, else they wouldn't have needed a resolution to go to war with Iraq'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'November, they aren't separate sovereign entities'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'They still are DosseT. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A diplomat signing a document can never override the will of a democratic people'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Though, if you hear the UN these days, a global tax, etc. one would think other people have ideas.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN needs decomissioning'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'POTUS reports to the CFR'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mostly agree with that Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It does some good in humanitarian aid, but that's it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the aid could be done by other existing international aid bodies'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its very selective though. Darfur comes to mind.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah but its really no good for much else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Sort of a global Red-Cross.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's called the WHO'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They approve poison and export it to 3rd world nations'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh, got to keep the population of fuzzywuzzy's down'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmmm... their nato allies are calling for restraint. Technically, if turkey went to war over being attacked, nato could've been obligated to join.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, yeah DosseT, that's more focussed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's 1984'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I'm thinking its good when you have a situation like a genocide or natual disaster going on and people need a lending hand.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They cause it'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rwanda? UN blockaded neighbors from interceding'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey were not attacked'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'No world government please, we can't even get one country's federal goverment worked out just yet. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think we will, though. I'm optimistic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No world government, though you have a "strange" feeling about the global tax?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't live in denial'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the main purpose of the UN is to get the major powers to talk to each other. It helps prevent major conflicts that war...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It should just be ignored. I don't recognize the UN as having any real authority over me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you, according to the US government, are an extremist'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Maybe if they asked for donations to help a disaster or prevent a genocide, OK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, they have no power to impose international laws or taxation, besides what their signatories can do'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually, I just want more states rights.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so do i'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I agree with that'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will get the opposite of that with Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not in TPTB's interest though'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean there are social issues here, that are better off left to the states.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Technically that is how the Constitution was really put together..'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Half the idiots on Capitol Hill don't know about the Constitution'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Some kid in 8th grade civics knows more'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so kick them out and replace them'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Society has been de-balled and hypnotized by the media'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Heh. I have a pocket Constitution. Its a little terse, but I can get through it if I really focus.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Oo, I wonder if there is a Constitution App for my iPad. Probably several.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have an analagous problem here in the UK with sovereignty being eaten by the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure only terrorists would have a copy of the constitution lying around'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, that's what police are being briefed with, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not making this up'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think the EU is on the way out. Don't know how that will play out, but I think its basically over with.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not, we'll see.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Explain'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you have ron paul bumper stickers, or stickers that suggest leaving the UN, or about ending foreign wars'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you promote 2nd ammendment'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or states rights'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all possible markers for terrorism, according to your intelligence services'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Heh Al Gore said it was the altitude. Hahaha, here we go. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the EU derives its authority from its member states. Even if there is no "legal" means to exit, there's nothing stopping individual countries from leaving, beyond their own self interest'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not like no country has ever broken a treaty before...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we can leave, sonshi, if we're given the opportunity to'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'll get economically crippled'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, our government heads will not give anyone that opportunity'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'For you Yuna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wF_n-gn-Yo'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you don't leave because it's still beneficial. Not having the euro while having all the free movement stuff is a pretty nice advantage'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yuna's not interested in your videos, dosset, he wants an obamaphone'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Watch it ON the Obamaphone, obvi'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the free movement has been harming us for 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and more'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uncontrolled economic immigrants'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'from greece, apain, and italy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'spain'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'portugal, poland, eastern europe'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah, with european economies on the ropes, it's unavoidable. On the bright side, you now have cheap labour!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: '3.5 million hits for Obamaphone, and rising.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you can exempt non citizens from minimum wage laws, if you have any'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't help'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we are an overpopulated island with an extremely high cost of living and an enormous amount of welfare dependance'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having the market flooded with cheap labour immigrants makes things worse'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'HA! You think YOU are overpopulated?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you haven't seen overpopulated yet!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're essentially a city state'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'India's separating from the mainland because there's so many people there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I love it. This one obamaphone remix has me laughing to tears: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwa3t-o4rmg&feature=related'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah... but there are other countries that are pretty densely populated too'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'japan, for one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we didn't used to be'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and japan is on the ropes, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is a truly hateful place'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the UK still has plenty of land'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our population has rise over 300% since the end of WW2'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's still lots of countryside'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there isn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'there is in texas'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's just that people often prefer to live in crowded cities, because that's where the jobs and services are'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'texas has been infiltrated by liberals'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'well, I'm a liberal and I just left, so based on conservative logic we're fleeing ind roves :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no they haven't, we asked Chuck Norris not to kick their asses so the rest of us could have some target practice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'texas is earmarked as an agenda 21 megapolis'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I don't know what that is, but it sounds exciting'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Extermination'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'so, have we given peace a chance and concluded that overpopulation sucks so lets go back to war?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'of you'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uber-city with huge amounts of cramped apartments, milkshake'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'There be a lot of Texas to fill up Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the point, they'll be moving people off all the other land'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '..or empty cities in Africa'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I thought Agenda 21 was what was shown in Hunger Games?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you know, it's funny, singapore is a tiny, crowded city state, but somehow our apartments seem more spacious than the crap most people here (US) live in...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US property is typical double the size of UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you're full of tiny people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Hunger Games is like what happens after Agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just build plenty of nice 3-5 room places...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You've created the rich-poor dichotomy, now you rule with fear tactics'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'average house here now costs 10x the median salary'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, that's normal'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's actually a documented evolutionary trait, populations in an island habitat with limited resources shrink to ease pressure on those resources.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'historically it should be 3-4x, the entire mortgage industry is based on this premise'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at 10x, nobody except the uber-rich can afford a house'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Whole thing's a scam'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Gotta run, leaving you with one more debate-zinger: A tweet today, "Does Obamacare cover ass-whoopins?" :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'wow thats so classy'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there are cheaper apartments, are there not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not if you've already had an ass-whoopin'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'to the middle working class? prolly'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can get a very small, crumbling 1 bed apartment here, smaller than most americans' garage for around $160,000, which is around 5x median salary'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a smallish 3 bedroom "duplex" will set you back around $320,000'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... why doesn't the govt build lots of 3-5 room flats?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Section 8'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a 4 bed house in 1/2 acre will set you back around $500,000'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't sound unreasonable though'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'space is at a premium'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well bring back hitler and get gassing then'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a flat with 3 bedrooms would probably cost something like 300-500k at current exchange rates back home...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have to live in a claustrophobic shithole because 3 generations of welfare scum couldn't keep their pants on?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not the cause, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well actually, it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you wanted a nice, large place which is cheap...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why not move to the countryside?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that IS in the countryside'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The housing thing is to eliminate the middle class'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The lower class is already guvment dependent, courtesy of the tax payers'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '4 bed house in London with a 1/4 acre garden you'll be looking around $2,500,000'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The upper class has all the real estate'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They short-sell and overprice this to the middle class'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. Are you telling me it costs that much to put a house in a rural area?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Foreclose them, take their shit, then move on to the next victim'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an 1/8acre building plot is $100,000'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'get some of the cheap labour you complain about to do it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the high cost is not due to the labour, it's down to the cost of land'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, do you need something that big?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i detest living in the city'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absolutely fucking hate it'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if America wasn't falling apart, i'd be out there like as hot'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you build an apartment building, the cost of land is minimal in the countryside'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shot*'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't build an apartment building in the countryside'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't build in the countryside period'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why building plots are so expensive'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'extremely restrictive building permissions'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that's your country's problem, right? It's not the fault of overpopulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're all related'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's essentially a monopoly whereby large property corporations sit on large land banks and get permission from the government. Everyone else can go jump'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the population were less, the area they'd let you build on would likely be less too!'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the population was less, there'd be a greater availability of existing houses'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so, really, the overpopulation thing isn't really an issue with housing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'yea it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they'd build less houses, wouldn't they?'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also an issue with services, resources, transport'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'too much r-selected reproduction by bottom-feeders'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, if the population was lower, they'd build less of everything...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they wouldn't need as much of everything'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the K-selected support these, and are rewarded with burgeoning costs which send them to said bottom-feeding level'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'scale everything down by half, and you'd get pretty much the same problems...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not everyone is a productive member of society'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the island can support around 25million, around 38% of the current population'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'get rid of the "unproductive" members, and the new bottom 10% will be nearly as unproductive...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'someone's going to be last, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We can't'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not to sound cliche, but blame the liberals, or MBTI "F" types'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and your island can certainly support more, depending on the tech level...'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's ok to feel bad for people - not ok to enable and incentivize their status to others'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at current tech level, 25 million'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's never a incentive to be poor, always a disincentive'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the only question is how large that disincentive is'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Give money to single moms? Now you've incentivized single-momhood'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You no longer need to work since you get income transfers from the working'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyhew, i need to go to bed, some of us have to work for a pittance you know'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'got to be a good wage slave for a thieving government'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's still crappy to be a single mom'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then don't be'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless you're giving them a few thousand a month, it's still a disincentive'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No Fault divorce 2.0'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just reproduce with lots of men, and have the state pay you = win'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even paying people to get kids, we can't get enough. We'd sure like to know your secret.'
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Romney says the gap between the rich and poor got wider in the past 4 years. Fact or fiction?'
T3/r7/2012-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Noose: 'if someone goes back in time and kills their past self is it suicide or murder'
T3/r7/2012-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'murder'
T3/r7/2012-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'two different time streams'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mokg: '<-- is a channel btw'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sorry, can't debate now, I am too busy going back in time to kill me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it might, once the gene pool is big enough, but when there were only a few humans, there was no other way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, Erobinia, but where to find those who are not siblings in a group of 10 or 12 people? Granted, they sought each other out following an urge to increase the gene pool, but they weren't going to sit around abstaining waiting for the next batch of humans to appear.'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis again :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'incest was practiced in Africa, Asia and Europe at least 2000 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Rules for kids on the Internet by the Swedish Queen: Never say your real name, never send pictures, never say if you are home alone. Is it that simple?'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'eat my dust rooster boy!'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzvm7zd4Z-s&list=UUF2oW5-MO8dB6ul9WH9xi0A&index=1&feature=plcp'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sooo, we have SFF complicit with the Turks firing mortars into Turkey in a false flag attack to try and provoke Nato involvement in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how fucking stupid do they think people are?'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'SFF?'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'syrian freedom force. aka Al-Quaida'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK undercover police set up a hookie pawnbrokers in London, offer to buy stolen passports and driving licenses off people, then arrest takers...... for 18 months'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK police arrest a man for murdering a 5yr old. In a press conference they confirmed the arrest but hoped they would yet find the girl alive and well'
T3/r7/2012-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I knew HooK was up to no good, but damn.'
T3/r7/2012-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sooo, BBC reports Saudi/Qatar weapons in Syrian Insurgents hands (better late than never on the reporting, I guess)'
T3/r7/2012-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney touts arming the rebels and going after Iran. Big shock there (not)'
T3/r7/2012-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and gold at 1108gbp $1780'
T3/r7/2012-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Technically Naganette, I think?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Todd Akin, he of "Pregnancy rarely occurs during legitimate rape" fame still opposes the government legislating equal pay between the genders and believes businesses should be free to discriminate freely against female employees. He also opposes minimum wage legislation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ALSO because the government shouldn't be sticking their noses into that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Angela Merkel travels to Greece, met by protestors dressed as Nazi's'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Easy fix - boot Greece from EU, disclaim debt as Greece's problem, immigration freeze on Greek citizens.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then Greece defaults on debt, european banks melt down'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '???s? ???? supporters?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'erm, Chrysi Avgi/Golden Dawn? :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'easy solution, regularise tax on hyperrich'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whose hyperrich, and to pay for what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Governments spending too much isn't something you can solve by a tax on the very rich, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, for instance, we could stop dropping corporation tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'But you could set corp/income/investment tax to all be at, say, 30%'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that would double the tax on investment income, I understand'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taxing the rich doesn't actually work'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no, that is why we are in the mess we are'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mainly because the rich own/run the countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sure it does - not taxing them sure doesn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and you could make income under x k be tax free, but that still doesn't solve the problem of too high gov't spending'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'off you go then Vakieh, go get support for that policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, 30% would bring the US more in line with european countries, which are apparently able to tax their rich at a higher rate'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, we could knock an awful of spending my, say, not buying trident'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I live in Au, our rich get taxed 48% for all income in high brackets, we're all good here :-P Hence why that fat coal lady whines so much'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'about the best you can achieve is to get them to pay the tax rates that already exist'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that would be a major step forward'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but much higher wouldn't work, since the really rich are an offshore kind of group'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem is not that governments spend too much, it's that we spend it on the wrong thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it spends too much'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '50% tax for high work income doesn't deal with the really rich though :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tinada - the *correct* government spending spurs economic growth - Monroe pulled in enough money to support 4-5 decades of US and Euro growth'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if your government is spending more than 40% of GDP, it's spending too much'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no, that doesn't make sense Tinada -- governments define a monetary system'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that does depend on what is included in gov't spending though'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Swalec.
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tigernuts, you can slap meaningless stats and thresholds, but it doesn't help'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'what do you mean?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tinada, it doesn't matter where the income is from - capital gains are included in the 48%'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'clever Australian tax people, then'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not meaningless at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'governments are the things that create a monetary system in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Indeed'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'these days our monetary systems are created by governments, certainly, and imo that is not a power governments should have'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, to say that they are spending too much -- well, what you are really saying I think, is that you think that majority of the economic activity should be outside of democratic control'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'These days? Since we moved from barter, it has been gov->mint->sales, always'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Well, that depends too. Which services/goods should be available to everyone?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'who should have that power, Tinada?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'education, health'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'protection, housing'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Original monetary systems just happened, right? Weight of gold/silver worked for a long time :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tinada, gold and silver did not work -- it's very hard to know if it is pure'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold and silver work fine'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Weight stayed the same, the amount the gov minted differed - inflation was their valuation control'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'gold and silver didn't just happen, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'gold and silver were stamped with coins, to establlish as a mechanism of trust'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If, say, in the US, you pay private insurance companies 16% of GDP to cover health care and such, and in Norway we pay the gov't 8% for the same sector, do you count that as "private"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they work fine, but restrict ability to have a stretchy monetary policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I think it's fair to say that precious metals as money developed independent of state/gov't power.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and gold failed at about the same time South American was discovered by the Europeans -- hyperinflation destroyed Spanish power for many hundreds of years'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold standard was dropped in the early 1970s, so swalec is talking arse again'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is not fair at all - the government were always the ones minting the precious metals'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Given the relative stability of that system over centuries compared to our current setup, I also don't think it's fair to say that it failed (unless you also want to say that current systems fail more)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tinada -- it isn't. Gold is not precious -- it's totally useless (nearly). It's rare'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You could of course argue debt is a greater problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'debt from who, to whom? We are in a world recession apparently'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'have we been borrowing too much from the Martians?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Pieces of paper with dollar signs on them are not more useful than pieces of gold, and they aren't even rare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'from the Chinese.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that's the point, Tinada, gold is just as pointless as dollar bills -- the value in it is established through custom and practice. And government control'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the reason that Gold used to be used is because it is relatively rare and hard to counterfeit'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like Swalec is advocating the Star Trek solution'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Precious metals have value independent of government control. If not enforced by law, US dollars would only have value to occasional collectors.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and people short of toilet paper'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gold is far from perfect, but far harder to debase than fiat currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tinada, tell me then, what use is Gold? I can think of only one use and that is recent'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ornamental'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Gold is useful as currency :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and electronics'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'To be fair, I find US dollars to be moderately useful'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Gold is no prettier than many cheaper alternatives. It's ornamental value stems from it's percieved value. not the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I got a bunch of them that I use for bookmarks'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Nevertheless, the value has been fairly stable over the years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really, no.  The sheer weight of gold makes it highly inconvenient.  Just think about all the money you own, then imagine that in gold coins.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'A decent toga would set you back an ounce during the days of the roman republic'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and Tinada, it's only useful as material from which to make currency -- not the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be very little, Hanslanda'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not so far from recent costs for a tailored suit'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold is at nearly $1800 an oz'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people could pick their entire life's worth up in one hand'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Go buy a car with 100k in gold :-P'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yeah, which makes it quite hard to buy a pint of milk with'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why they had other coins, silver and copper'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just the weight of your paycheck would destroy your pockets.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, exactly. It is the COINS that had value, not the Gold'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an ounce would destroy your pockets, hans?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't think there's anything that particularly prevents you from creating a monetary unit called, say, Bancor, which would be worth, say 1/10000 of an ounce of gold :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it is like arguing that paper is valuable, because we print notes on it'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fiat currencies were fine until they started to be devalued by the crooked ruling elite and corporate interests'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'gold is not a replacement for paper money, or a government organised currency. It's simply a medium out of which to make one. An not a very good medium in this day and age. '
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'up until what, 6th century bc? people used precious metals by weight, then coins with preset amount of pm began taking over'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your dollar is worth about 5% of what it used to be'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'anyway, I shall leave the debate there. I don't want to my late for my classes tomorrow'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'enjoy the debate!'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like you need them'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Yes, Tigernuts, I do. Without them, I don't get paid!'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well be glad you still get paid and it's still sufficiently valuable to buy anything with'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it soon won't be'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'my initial points were that a precious metals based standard (1) doesn't require government enforcement, and (2) is historically more stable than fiat currencies. As far as I know, there isn't really any doubt about those two points. This doesn't mean that the volatility of value is zero or that the system is perfect, since the amount of available money will not change with the population or amount of goods and services produced, but given the centuries of practical testing, it's pretty obvious that it "works".'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't like it because it can't be tracked and can't be fiddled easily, tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, bank runs, crashes and whatnot are essentially a result of a fractional banking systems, which are not a necessary part of any monetary system'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is why western countries will never return to it'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I reckon the real reason it is unlikely that we will change back to PM standards is that governments really don't like giving up power'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'especially not one that lets you tax people in nearly invisible ways and put blame elsewhere most of the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why we're going to end up glowing in the dark'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or in prisoner camps'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're entering an era of incompetence and decadence. It's going to hurt'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It was quite pleasant for a generation, but sooner or later you can't kick the can down the road anymore :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney now leads in 11 swing states'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I saw the overall polls moving toward Romney over the past week.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If he can sweep the floor with Obama in two more debates, it might just work'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep. you were all told this would happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'despite him coming out as a war mongering, hypocritical terrorist-arming scumbag'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you mean Romney or Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, our terrorists are freedom fighters'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'until they turn on us, at least'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're Al-Quaida'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you set them up, trained them, used them as an excuse to take away our freedoms'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'everyone loves a good police state'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gee, thanks, i didn't need those hopes, dreams and aspirations anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada rapidly nods twice at Tigernuts, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some al-quaida spokesman released a video message stating that they'd not stop until the al-quaida flag was flying over the White House'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I didn't have the heart to post a comment stating that it already was'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Isn't there already an American flag there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and one for the banks, one for wall street, one for the unions, one for.. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, that's the United Nations'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'hm :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe the UN Eugenics team are right, maybe me do need to remove 80% of the population, just so long as we can guarantee it's the ruling class and ruling elite/uber rich that go first'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'kill the french.  They get crazy when nobles start getting executed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'given the increasing (and positive) correlation between intelligence and wealth, you might want to be careful with eliminating the rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't confuse intelligence with wisdom'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'intelligence is useful, but sadly correlates only very weakly with moral qualities'
T3/r7/2012-10-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or maybe that is just as well'
T3/r7/2012-10-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone up for something ?  - finished chores '
T3/r7/2012-10-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would prefer a pissing contest here - I occasionally learn something here '
T3/r7/2012-10-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'is a game of compensation'
T3/r7/2012-10-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'Someone should make a game where the PvP system is completely undocumented'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you have moves like Tiger kick, and Dragon Punch, etc., and the effects of all of the moves are undocumented entirely'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything happening here ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No.  Please, please, please, get drunk and go back to bed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is 1830ish , just got back from training :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yet to have my first '
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Cheers Starling !'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there ya go :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'how are we shaping up in here ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news headline: UK man gets jailed for 4 months for wearing T-Shirt'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Romney 49%, Obama 44%'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama deputy campaign manager tries to blame Libya Embassay Massacre on Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bus driver has since been fired'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should have been fried, really, only 1 letter switch different'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pile of horse manure dumped at Ohio Democratic headquarters'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'is there any reason to think that "vapor" from an electronic cigarette is harmful to the lungs? (significantly anyway)'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my understanding is no, though the nicotine is still a concern, but not on the same level as burnt organic matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'depends on what the vapor consists off'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'this seems like a wonderful device, all of the high and none of the hack (I am not a smoker, I don't want to be one...) I just wonder why people are reticent to pick it up'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'from what i remember the vapor was suppose to be water'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'if they're already addicted, that is'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yes, thats what the people selling it say, my coworker and I talk a lot while he smokes his e-cig'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think people feel stupid using them, I know my brother has been trying to stop and is using them to help, and he's said that at first he was embarassed to use one'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'any republicans about'
T3/r7/2012-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'lift rocks and look under :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It is astounding me that "facilities for the extremely obese" is actually a thing (in the U.S., where else?). Apparently, there are so many extremely obese people in the U.S. they need special hospitals for them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it's a growing disease'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not a friggin' disease.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's people making bad lifestyle choices.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'sure it is a disease'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like calling being a drug addict a disease.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'haven't you seen "King Size Homer"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that's my favourite episode'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, anything shown on the Simpsons is real. We should all bow down to Homer for saving us from the Apocalypse.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost crosses his arms and nods slowly and sagely.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it is a cautionary tale'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The problem is that official advice is based on faux science, and more likely to make you more obese than less'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No advice would have been better, and probably the best way to go'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Also, subsidies on food that makes you obese may not be a good policy...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'any food can make you obese'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Insurance companies should be allowed to refuse to pay for the treatment of idiots whose problems are their own fucking fault.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'except celery and cucumber'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, Vost, but some are worse. Like sugar or corn.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But any subsidies on food is bad and should be removed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'so block subsidies on a list of food that is more likely to make you obese?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eating quadruple portions every meal? That's your own stupidity making you morbidly obese. Go and die quickly so the world doesn't ahve to deal with the fallout of your fucktardism, costing society tons of money. Smoker who gets lung cancer? No treatment unless you pay for it yourself. Dead liver due to alcoholism? The same.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fucking retarded 16 yearolds going on a solo sailing trip around the world to break a meaningless world record for meaningless fame DESPITE repeated wearnings of bad weather? Pay for your own damn rescue operation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Just remove all subsidies and remove all official food recommendations.  The government sucks at those things and only make their choices on whoever bribes them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'heh, crossing the street and getting hit by a car? Your own fucking fault. You should get sued for damaging such a fine looking car :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What fatty foods are getting government subsidies, Ranrr?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'None. '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Fatty foods don't make you fat.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Crossing a street does not have the inevitable and guaranteed consequence of getting hit by a car.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then why are you talking as if there were, Ranrr?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Processed starchy and sugary foods do, and they get subsidies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Railing against government subsidies for fatty foods.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'm not, you are not reading what I wrote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yuna is angry today'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'I want a BigMac'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'His mom must have refused to give him a handjob, poor guy :('
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I had to read a bunch of articles where idiots are saying Paul Ryan won last night's debate when he did nothing but lie and obfuscate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I'm pretty sure they have to get some sort of insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no maternal hand job? Sue that mother!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I am officially fed up with U.S. stupidity. If you elect Romney-Ryan, you DESERVE a depression. Too bad I'm going to have suffer for it simply for living on the same planet as them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Mars exploration will be opening soon...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'high-fructose corn syrup, nitrates, and sulfates poison your body - all approved by the FDA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I'm fed up with putting up with stupidify from whatever country Yuna is from.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I think we need to bomb them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So does chocolate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's part of the insurance/Big Pharm complex to create a sick populace that dies over 30-40 years, not instantly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'we all die eventually, i'm fine with 60 to 70 years instead of 80'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'pretty sure high-fructose corn syrup isn't ACTUALLY poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The rest I have no insight into, so I won't debate those.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'poisonous in the same sense as sucralose - it fills your body up, making you feel full, but you're actually malnourished'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not poisoning!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying eating rabbit is poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you feel full eating your Big Mac, but your body is actually starving for nutrients - you keep returning to the additive addiction'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's poisoning in the sense that your body isn't fully functional'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the fuck is THAT the new definition of "poisoning"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how the fuck is that fully functional?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You FEEL full, but you can STILL eat more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's how rat poison works'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It merely TRICKS your body. It still functions just as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you know, aspartame'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tastes good, starves the body out'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No it fucking isn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Rat poison fucks up a creature's actual biological functions, preventing their body from performing vital tasks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Not feel full without being full" isn't a fucking vital task.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Rat poison also actually damages a creature's body.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't know what kind of knockoff rat poison YOU have been ingesting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '>>In the context of biology, poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms,[1] usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism. '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There are other toxins, but the aspartame in it makes it taste appealing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'aspartame is also used by humans'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Every chemical is a poison once you hit a certain dose.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '(even (some might say especially) water'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's marlakey and a bunch of stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'no, "poison" is defined to be of low dose'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'if it's not harmful at low dose, it isn't a poison'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's apartame in rat poison =/= Aspartame is poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'absolutely it's poisonous'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and no, not because it's in poison'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Actually, that definition I used came from Dorland's Medical Dictionary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sugar (or more specifically fructose) is a poison. Still, I would eat sugar before aspartame any day of the week.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how the FUCK does aspartame being allegedly poisonous make high fructose syrup poisonous?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Colloquially, something is 'a poison' when it is poisonous in small enough doses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're both poisons used to create an obese public that supports the insurance/Big Pharm complex'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have yet to prove that high fructose syrup is poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obese? Now your premiums went up, and you pay more to get pill poisons to cure you from your food poisons'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not all poisons kill. A negative effect on the body counts as far as poison goes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Saying "It's poisonous if you go by MY bullshit definition" is not an actual argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: '1) there isn't aspartame in rat poison, 2) the correct notation is !=, not that lame-assed =/='
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sugar is indeed poison, once you hit a certain dose - that dose being higher than the body (and its insulin factories) can support.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, again, are you calling rabbit poisonous?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sugar is only poisonous when consumed in a unnatural way as we do in a modern society. Sugar is not poisonous in the doses you get on a natural diet of vegetables and fruit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because rabbit works the exact same way high fructose syrup works.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No i doesn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'it*'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Cherries are fucking poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes it does, Ranrr.-'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In no way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Rabbit will fill you up, but it has extremely little nutrients.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It has protein.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A diet consisting mostly or entirely of rabbit will fucking kill you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'What is 'rabbit' ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not to mention that it's sickly sweet...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna - eat enough rabbit, and yes, it is poison.  By the accepted medical, scientific definition of 'poison'.  I bet you could eat a LOT more rabbit than sugar before you died, however.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes, but in a different way than a diet of only sugar.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It contains pretty much ONLY protein.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't survive on protein alone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Correct.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Vakieh. That's not the accepted, medical, scientific definition.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's YOUR definition.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Did you not see my reference? pretty sure I'm the only person here who brought one'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ingesting rabbit or high fructose corn syrup does NOT disrupt the way your body works!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, sorry, I meant Ranrr.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ignore that, Vakieh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Dorland's medical dictionary'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'BTW, I recommend watching "Sugar: The bitter truth" by Robert Lustig. It's on youtube.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'In the context of biology, poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms, usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism. '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'That's from wikipedia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Simply making you feel full without being full is not being poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Starling - always follow the footnotes - wikipedia is an excellent aggregator'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Fructose causes fatty liver, the same way as alcohol.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or should we ban Chinese food?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'MSG bad too'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Nothing wrong with MSG'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's just a bullshit scare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No food should be banned. Just propely labeled.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Curiously enough, MSG was given a bad rap due to a single poorly executed study'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People ran around for years saying MSG caused cancer but ZERO studies prove that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'all food should be labelled "poisonous" '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I ate an entire 100 gram container of MSG, nothing bad happened to me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'because if you eat too much of it, you will die'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fact that 99% of South-East Asia isn't dropping dead on a yearly basis proves that MSG isn't poisonous of cancerous, considering the fact that 99% of all South-East Asian cuisine includes MSG.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No it doesn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That said, I can tell whether food has used much MSG at all about 30 mins after I eat it - crippling heart burn.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I use MSG almost every single fucking time I cook anything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'MSG may not cause cancer but it makes me feel weird.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Observational studies can not prove anything, can only be used to make a hypothesis.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have NO CLUE how South-East asian cuisine works, Ranrr, if you don't think that the vast majority of SOuth-East Asian dishes contain MSG.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't care.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the third universal spice in SEA, with pepper and salt.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's used for umami flavor - there are other ways to get it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think it's used more than pepper, in fact.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna - I cook South east asian food almost exclusively, and have never once used MSG or salt (outside of occasional non MSG soy sauce)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You need a clinical trial to make such a point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Salt is not a spice'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"You don't care"? Yet you can argue with complete confidence for your position, despite being willfully ignorant?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No, but I know how science works.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you fucking Asian, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No, you offering? :-P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Vakieh is North Korean'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then why should we care?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'He's a loyal member of the Worker's Party'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because one doesn't need to be born in a country to have learnt to cook food in a certain way'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying "I eat Italian all the time!" because you buy pizza on a weekly basis.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Because you want your statements to be scientific and not faux?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or maybe you don't care?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I myself learnt several Singaporean dishes from a native born chef who was a live in with some family I had living over there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you ask any (ethnically) South-East Asian person, one who either lives in the region or has lived there and emmigrated, they will tell you that MSG is an universal spice/condiment used in the vast majority of SEA cuisine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes. Doesn't mean it's safe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fact that YOU, a non-Asian who happens to enjoy cooking Asian food, don't use MSG doesn't mean that MSG isn't a vital part of SEA cuisine. It just means you're doing it wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sure you're not defending it because you use it all the time?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And the fact this Actual Asian Lady taught me without any MSG means what, exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Since MSG cannot have been around more than a few hundred years, it can't be a vital part of asian cooking.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe because that was during the MSG scare? Maybe because you don't live in a region where you can get actual Asian ingredients but have to subsist on Asian STYLE cooking.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who knows?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I'm not saying MSG is bad, simply saying that you don't HAVE to use it, and that 'everyone is using it, and everyone isn't dead' is not reputable science.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Monosodium glutamate, also known as sodium glutamate or MSG, is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, one of the most abundant naturally occurring non-essential amino acids"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In any case, MSG may or may not be harmful. It's disgusting anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'You can get pure MSG at wal-mart'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"One of the most ABUNDANT NATURALLY OCCURRING..."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Humans totally CREATED MSG 100 years ago and made it naturally occurring. Sounds legit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Professor Kikunae Ikeda from the Tokyo Imperial University isolated glutamic acid as a new taste substance in 1908 from the seaweed Laminaria japonica, kombu, by aqueous extraction and crystallization, and named its taste "umami".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Anthrax is naturally occurring; what does that have to do with anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Naturally occuring things aren't automatically safe when you concentrate them or synthesize them. E.g. trans fatty acids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's just that people used to get MSG by throwing in a bunch of leaves and stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: '"umami" is bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'We just passed 100 years of MSG :-P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'MSG tastes salty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now we can get MSG separately instead of having to use leaves and shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'MSG does not taste salty. I do not knwo what kind of MSG you've tasted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't recommend using shit in cooking'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yes it does, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You're debating too quickly today. Did everyone agree that fructose/carbs in the amounts usually eaten in wealthy countries are harmful to us?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's described as "brothy", but it's really more of a sweet/sour-like taste. It does not taste salty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And that may be causing problems. The leaves were probably safe, the synthetic MSG may not be.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'It tastes salty, Yuna.  You are wrong, as usual.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's fed to us and passed off as safe, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(There's an actual Swedish word for it, "syrligt", that doesn't mean translate into English. It's separate from salty, though)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'when did you all decide to wake up and just blast this channel?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'Potato omelette with self-made mayonaisse and roasted chicken with garlic...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'LOL'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Everything all of you know is wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The synthetic MSG has not been proven to be harmful by a single study.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nobody disagreed with my statements, Tinada, so I guess yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Especially you!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"May not be safe" can be said about anything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav points at you.  How rude! 
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you have conclusive proof that roasted chicken isn't harmful?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Stfu Botman.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Has been enough faulty studies on this subject?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Starling tells Jhav to "Shut the fuck up!"
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The only way to know is to make clinical studies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"May not be safe" is not an actual valid argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A lack of clinical studies does not prove that something's dangerous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'you can point to me all you want to Jhav. All im saying is this all jsut came out of nowhere.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Do realize, though, that "studies" can be constructed to prove either point'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Everything's all backwards nowadays'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Anything we have eaten for over 10k years is probably safe, anything less than that may not be.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The EPA/FDA conduct shitty studies with small sample sizes to get one glimpse of something to use as "scientific proof"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Nowadays? At least nowadays we get studies - time was, the nobles or aristocrats simply said 'it's ok, now stfu peasants''
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, I will say: Cherries are poisonous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Your mom's cherry was poisonous'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why'd you put it in your mouth?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ranrr - I would clarify that by saying: Anything we have eaten enough over a long enough period of time natural selection has equipped us for.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who knows, it's possible that MSG is harmful if you down 2 kilograms of it every week. But who would ever do that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'We have eaten animals, fruits and vegetables (not grains or legumes) for millions of years, they are probably safe for us and we are adapted to them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So it's really a moot point. Cherry is poisonous, yet nobody's working to ban it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because almonds are fucking deadly, but we (usually) naturally reject the cyanide ones as tasting bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Ideally you want an established physiological mechanism, failing that, experimental studies measuring physiologial changes. If you somehow can't do either, it's still possible to get useful info from experimental studies where you register simple outcomes (# of dead etc). If you rely on observational cohort studies, your field of science has probably gone wrong and turned into a publication machine for career people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'You guys should try spanish cuisine :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Isn't saffron poisonous as well?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's what it basically is Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There goes Spanish cuisine!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, saffron isn't poisonous. But cherry still is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just drop some names like Stanford/MIT and "scientific study", and you can get people to drink mercury'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Who knows. The same idiots who said eggs are good for you will say they are bad for you tomorrow. Just eat what the hell you want to eat. Life is short argue about food. If it tastes good, eat it. Who cares what people think.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'Well, I don't know if it's poisonous or not... but we use to have long lives, age slowly and don't get fat :/'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'So I guess spanish food is not bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Speaking of cyanide, I do believe cherry pits contain cyanide.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So make sure not to puncture any cherry pits. Those deadly, deadly cherry pits.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Then you might want to go back some years and see what changed around the time when people started gaining lots of weight :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna - the natural human response is to spit the pit - even children can do it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nyine: In what alternative universe did we "use to have long lives"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Human beings are living longer than ever in recorded human history.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fictional religious characters like Moses do not count.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'in recorded human history'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was making a point, Vakieh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We're living longer thanks to better medicine, though, not because of higher overall/basic health'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'By long lives I meant around 90s :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Don't be an idiot."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When? 10 years ago?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And we no longer are living 'til around the 90's?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'ie. surviving "lifestyle diseases" longer'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'More people are living 'til they're 90 than EVER before.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'At this point, I doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'prepubescent kids are obese and filled with "poisons"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fact that SOME idiots choose to become morbidly obese or clog up their arteries does not mean the human lifespan has shortened, somehow.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Well, up until now, at least :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Those people are fucking idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'Ok ok! I'll stop smoking!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: '...not'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That is one hypothesis - during the space of one generation, most americans became stupid and lazy and therefore obese.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I support free universal healthcare, but, seriously, fucking idiots who go out of their way to lead lifestyles that are proven to be harmful should have to pay for their own damn medical expenses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm not entirely sure that it is convincing, being based on, you know, a shortage of science :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's the trap Yuna; the people forced to eat the poison are generally lower income'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '>>fucking idiots who go out of their way to lead lifestyles that are proven to be harmful'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The middle classes that choose to indulge is another story'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'This is almost COMPLETELY linked to poor education.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You aren't forced to eat "the poison". That's just lazy talk.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yuna, will you pay for the medical care we need to treat the loss of neurons caused by reasing your incessant bullshit?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So what changed in the US lifestyle over the past 30-40 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you're on welfare, you are; it's all you can afford'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'See, I misspelled 'reading' !  Your horseshit rants are damaging our brains!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There was recently an article where some lazyass projects reject whined about how the closest store to her that sold "healthy food" (read: Fucking fresh vegetables) was 1 mile away from her house.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1 fucking mile. I can WALK that far without much effort.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'You are really getting me hungry'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Laziness can be part of it, but general ignorance and lack of resources are the bigger driving forces'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She's never even entertained the idea of walking, biking or hitching a ride with friends there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's just "It's not down on the street corner? Well FUCK that."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fresh vegetables, not that extremely expensive. Healthy food? Not much more expensive than McDOnalds or whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's just easier and faster to just swing by your closest McFuckYou to slowly go morbidly obese.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'Wait, in USA McDonalds is cheaper than fresh food?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'yes, and more ubiquitous'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Besides, I'm pretty sure eating 1 serving of McDonald's frequently doesn't not make you obese. It's eating 2-3 servings in one sitting that does.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'I was born in the wrong country :'('
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's eating it 3 meals a day for years that does'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People are idiots. They don't realize that maybe they shouldn't have 3 times the "normal" intake of food and expect not to become morbidly obese.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'mcfuckyou's food is addictive and you'll find yourself wanting more and more'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not that they're consuming huge volumes, though some are'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '3 meals a day at McDonalds cannot possibly be cheaper than 3 meals a day cooked in your own kitchen.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And it also cannot possibly make your morbidly obese. Overweight and unhealthy, sure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'MORBIDLY obese? Hardly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I disagree, Santher'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We might want to scale down the idiot rhetoric a bit. Realistically, people become obese after storing 5-20% of their daily caloric intake as fat over a long period of time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'I don't stop eating and I don't get obese :('
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've never found myself addicted to anything McDonald's has to offer, anyway. It's not like their stuff tastes very good.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I had to eat McDonalds for the first time in 15 years or so, back when I went on a geology field trip.  It was vile.  I never want to touch it again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's not as though people suddenly started eating three times what they used to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So what changed to make people store more fat?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'it's like smoking starling'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'HORMONES'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'Global Warming!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'BISPHENOL-A'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'just had to eat more'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'NUCLEAR WEAPONS'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'NORTH KOREA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: '...the Spanish Inquisition?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher takes a cigarette from her pack and offers one to Starling.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pop quiz: Fresh carrots. 30 cents a kilogram. True or not true?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher is not a rabbit.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let me rephrase that. Fresh carrots, 15 cents a pound. True or not true?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'True - IN CHINA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's fucking true in Sweden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Are you from Sweden?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I have no idea what kind of food industry you guys are running.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'One that backs the insurance/Big Pharm complex'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hm... I didn't take the waning dollar rate into account. Let me rephrase that. 30 cents a pound, around 70 cents a kilogram.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'more like usd 1.5 per pound of carrot in Norway'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I've seen as low as about $1/pound this year'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Norway is friggin' expensive.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I think we pay about AU$2 a kilo bag here?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oslo is the most expensive capital to live in all of Europe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'are they organic?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not always that cheap, but you can find bargains like that frequently if you comparison shop. Strictly speaking, you shouldn't be paying more than 70 cents a pound, EVER, in Sweden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if not, it's full of growth hormones'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'the $2? doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't buy organic. I just buy tasty and cheap.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're likely full of growth hormone'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not organic, but Norway has rather more restrictions on "non-organic" food than the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, for the purposes of this discussion, unless it's got to do with pricing, anything that applies in Sweden mostly likely applies in Norway as well and vice verse.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'ie. hormones, most us antibiotic stuff etc isn't legal at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Sweden has pretty much the same restrictions as Norway on "non-organic" food.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How are those 20 dollar pizzas treating you, Tinada? :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the last pizza I bought cost $44'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck kind of pizza was that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'enough to feed two grown up men, roughly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'a Norwegian one..'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still, 44 dollars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I bought 1kg of organic carrots yesterday, they cost 12 sek, i.e. about 2 dollars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, you can get organic carrots that cheaply?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That was a bargain, they are usually more like 20 SEK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, this is country that has an effective tax rate of 25% on all food items.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So that's 1.75 dollars INCLUDING tax.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'which it likely should be'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prices are inflated here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'to drive people to the GMO product'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but before you pay those 25% VAT you have paied around 30% tax on the money you have in your pocket. + your employer has payed some 30% tax before that on the money he payed you in the first place.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, but we get paid more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, but we are also not bankrupt.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And no, we don't get double taxation on our wagse.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's something called "employer's fees", but those are not 30%.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'As for changes in the US compared to 1970 - 1. Greater income inequality, possibly relevant for who can afford to buy healthy good, 3. Dietary shift from fat to carbs (about 12% of caloric intake changed, iirc - mostly from sugars, HFCS etc), 4. Overall caloric intake increased by 5-10%, 4. Slightly more sedentary lifestyles (maybe?)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'healthy food, I mean..'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Make #4 #1 Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, all of our stuff is cheaper than yours except fast food. I can't believe the rent you guys pay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also counting fail!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I knew a 20-something guy who lived on his own who paid 1200 dollars a month for his apartment... in MARYLAND.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People have been sold instant gratification shake-weight-while-you-stuff-your-face lifestyles'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That depends on where in the country you live, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, the U.S. is a 1984 dystopia'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It'll be hard to extrapolate your native experience and wonder why things are so different here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Baltimore). I live in a 2-bed room apartment that's quite spacious and in good a neighbourhood 15 minutes by metro away from the city centre. My rent is 870 dollars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'If you think that, DosseT, you need to re-read 1984.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ranrr, Baltimore, Maryland, is NOT some kind of metropolitan city.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'FDA = Food drugging Administration, Department of War = Department of Defense, approved products = poison'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Everything is backwards'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, let me rephrase that. It wasn't even IN Baltimore. It was in a town OUTSIDE of Baltimore.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Jhav is a bot.  Discuss.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1200 fucking dollars. In 2006.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Beep.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Best 1984 example is "Homeland security" imho'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Starling gasps at Jhav's actions, uttering "Oh My Bot!"
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's some bullshit level of pricing right there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, Civil Defense gets renamed Homeland Security...brilliant'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Yeah, homeland security is a bit silly.  But it's mostly just a waste of money as opposed to some vast conspiracy to remove human rights,.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I stand corrected. Apparently, the employer's fee IS actually 30%.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: '1984, Kallocain, Brazil, Equilibrium, V for Vendetta. Anyone got anything to add to that list?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A waste of money, why, though? To protect the people from bogeymen?  To groom people to accept surveillance from themselves? Lots of possibilities'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not that that matters. It's not coming out of the worker's wages, i.e. the wages don't get taxed 30% + 30%. It affects wages, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Hell, The Giver is a red-pill book for kids'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'No, mostly to try and convince the voting population that their elected officials are Tough On Terrorism and acting to Protect The Children.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I almost forgot DosseT was a conspiracy theorist. He was sounding kinda lucid for a while there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Try to*'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'a la Fast and the Furious gunrunning?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Call it conspiracy, but there's a century old track record here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam, Operation Northwoods for Cuba'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'For a joke, try to find the US govt definition of terrorism/terrorist'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Hell, the U.S.S. Cole and BP Platform were CIA operations'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes... the BP Platform was a CIA operation...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Do your research'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, you have proof for this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you provide sources.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's funny how it's always the most insane debaters who throw out bullshit and then scream "Do your research!" when prompted for sources.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You disprove since you're challenging it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav sighs.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Aside from common knowledge like the fact Tony Hayward sold 1/3 of his stock before it happened'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and other empirical facts'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not how debates work, DoessT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Things like this flash in the mainstream media then disappear from the limelight'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The challenger of a fatc doesn't have to disprove shit. The person who threw a "fact" out has to prove its veracity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're the one that didn't do your follow-up to what the media fed you'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how the FUCK am I supposed to disprove if? By simply NOT finding any proof FOR it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '"The US government is posioning the brocolli supply!" -> "No it isn't." -> "Oh yeah?  PROVE that it isn't!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you in fact Chemosh's less insane alternate personality?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a teapot floating around at one of the lagrange points. They call me crazy, but no one has disproven it...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You have many data points that together provide a picture that is not what was sold to the public'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'It's true, you certainly haven't disproved that you are crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet you have not provided a single one of these dat points.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'data'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except that some guy who I assume works for the CIA allegedly sold his stocks in BP just prior to the spill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, that proves the CIA orchestrated that spill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That "guy" is the CEO of BP'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In order to... make people more accepting of alternate energy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No.. to close the Gulf of Mexico'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How does the CEO selling his stocks in his own company just prior to an oil spill prove CIA involvement?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It doesn't directly - it shows premeditation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There are, of course, other dots along the way'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It doesn't mean anything more than someone told him to sell'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What, the CIA just rung him up and said "We're totally gonna orchestrate a spill. Sell!"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the FUCK would the CIA tell him?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They wouldn't - don't take it so literally'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet you cannot show us a SINGLE ONE of those alleged dots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I can - you won't accept them as data because your mind has been decided'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Don't take it so literally"? So what the FUCK are you arguing here? "There was a coincidence. Which may or may not prove something. Don't focus so much on it."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's just you not having any "points of data".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nyine: 'I blame on the Illuminati'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you're right. If your "Points of data" are on the same level as "The CEO of BP sold his stock in BP prior to the spill", they're probably garbage.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'What's this about closing the Gulf of Mexico?  There was a temporary ban on new drilling, but that expired more than a year and a half ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you in fact Chemosh's alt? You have yet to disprove that accusation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'And there has been plenty of new drilling since.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think dosset is a transdimentional reptilian and he's trying to direct us away from the REAL conspiracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'who stood to gain from the BP gulf of Mexico blowout oil-spill'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I haven't seen Chemosh in, like, 3 weeks and in his absense, at least 3 new insane conspiracy theorists have arrived on the scene to out-crazy him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Goldman Sachs'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"transdimensional". And yes, they're taking over!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Oh hurray, the other voice of "reason"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DosseT, do you in fact believe that Hitler didn't really hate the Jews because he once didn't even mention the Jews in a speech?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Chemosh kept the craziers at bay'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah. the dedicated crazy outcrazied the other lunatics :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think they were all just humbled by his craziness. They recognized him as their leader and let him fly their flag.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'He has the superior crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or they were afraid of being identified as crazy, but with Chemosh mostly gone nowadays, they're scrambling to usurp his rightful place as King of Crazies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'information is out there, you just don't acknowledge it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'peruse http://www.lewrockwell.com/spl2/did-bp-know-well-would-blow.html for some basic info'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Give us the fucking information or shut the fuck up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The game is much deeper than "a platform exploded"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's all based off of money'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'jfk shooting was staged by stanley cubric. in space.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Hey dude, did you know?  Radiation from computer monitors destroys brain cells at an incredible rate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't need to qualify known fact'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You need to learn it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So your ONLY source is a 3rd rate political blog by a no-name who can't even afford some basic design strategies?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Adolf delegated -- the followers of Adolf took the opportunity to do things'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seriously, black on white? 1992 era HTML coding?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Find whatever reasons to reject the data'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'follow the money'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Also, bread is deadly toxic to the human digestic system.  100% of people who have eaten bread have died or will die.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tony sold off 1/3rd of his stocks. WHy not half? Why not all of it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'YOU NEED TO DO YOUR RESEARCH AND LEARN THESE THINGS'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ignore Jhaw when debating ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I see nothing here but a bunch of coincidences. That hackjob blogger didn''
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I see nothing here but a bunch of coincidences. That hackjob blogger didn't even have the balls to come out and say what he's clearly insinuating.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Oh, please do.  My ignore list has been so very very empty :('
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Jesse Ventura wrote a book on it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's using weasel words such as "Did X do Y" because he knows he can't prove shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'was the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your fragile world view will find whatever reason to reject a dose of reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's classic weaseling. Accuse someone of something by saying "The 'facts' indicate there MAY be a conspiracy, but there is NO PROOF, but I'm going to this out there anyway".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your reality is frightening and I applaud anyone who rejects it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Stay in the Matrix then'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have NOT answered by questions, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have yet to prove that you aren't actually just an alternate personality of Chemosh'.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's known fact that BP was premeditated'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What say you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'nothing to prove'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now it's "KNOWN FACT"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet you have ZERO PROOF?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'can't be chemosh. not crazy enough'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Consider the inverse: your argument that it was just an explosion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now the English language is clearly wrong in its definition of the term "known fact"!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You qualify to me your argument of how it was just an explosion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My argument is that you're fucking insane.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Where's your proof?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That there was an explosion?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's your belief, yes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Ad hominem, Yuna loses the debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where's my proof that there was an explosion? The fact that there was an explosion.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That it was a mundane, normal explosion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'my argument is that people are too fucking incompetent to carry out this shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I don't see Yuna making ANY claims.  She's just asking for you to back yours.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Which of course, you are not and will not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Dagnir: Manhattan Project'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(I have a penis, BTW)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Everything is divided and compartmentalized'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it is well known that accidents never happen except as a result of evil plots and conspiracies! That waitress who spilled water on me?? It must be a CIA agent, and that was no water, it was slow acting poison meant to silence me!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'which leaves lizard people as the only realistic version'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The Russians were spying on the Manhattan project the whole time'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'You have a female username, you should be used to it by now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If it were a normal break, why did it take 4 months for them to identify the source?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and they never did'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sonshi, that was Chemosh' sister/accomplish/incestual lover/DosseT's cousin (all of those things).'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sounds like the case of the missing evidence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She's now cackling evilly while stroking DosseT's hair. Quickly, eat a babboon's ass! It's the only cure!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Eating your mom's ass will not cure anything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '(lack of information about event) -> (wild speculation about event leading to government conspiracy)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'More like lack of information of the alleged event'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If this were an explosion, why did they never identify what went wrong where?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DosseT, are you, in fact, as many speculate, Kim Yeong-Eu in disguise?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If not, can you prove to us that you are not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'strong avoidance of the topic'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Give me 20 minutes and I'll likely be able to pull up a bullshit website accusing you of beign Kim Yeong-Un.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Summoner Yuna seems to be loving Vost's welcome to North Korea.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I think lots of ppl lack information, or does not want information, about an event. They want to use their own creativity and design "facts" that fit in the world they like to live in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'You mean Kim Jong-un?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that crazy chinaman?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'hmm, that social has been changed'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Jong/Yeong, pretty sure it's the same name just romanized differently.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Kim Jong-un is the leader of North Korea'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Such a dramatic emotional response is usually indicative of some sort of internal upheaval...an undesired one'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you in fact a fat North Korean dictator, DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The irony in this is that if you were to find evidence enough that there were a mundane explosion, I could change my stance'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I thought it was called Naughty Korea so you won't confuse it with Nice Korea.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You, however, don't seem able to say the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You will not, though, find evidence that it was a mundance explosion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's evidence there's a mundane explosion. You just choose to ignore it since it's come from the mouth of BP'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Relegate it to "conspiracy" if it keeps you in your bubble'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You are strongly J-type'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Are you referring to the Deepwater Horizon explosion?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'realize that authorities can and will lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'From Wikipedia: "At approximately 9:45 pm CDT, on 20 April 2010, high-pressure methane gas from the well expanded into the drilling riser and was released onto the drilling rig, where it ignited and exploded, engulfing the drilling rig."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes Starling'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But that's not evidence of anything, because authorities will and can lie!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't think it was premeditated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'wikipedia is lies and propaganda regarding recent history'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So what kind of evidence do you want, DosseT?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I think the well kicked and it was handled incompetently.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I work in the oilfield, you would be amazed at some of the idiots who work out here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's Wikipedia quoting the Coast Guard. But clearly the Coast Guard was lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'The kind that everybody knows and is self-evident Yuna.  Like the government poisoning our water!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What kind of evidence do you want, DosseT? Apparently, ANY evidence we can provide will just be government lies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Jhav's botting is self-evident, yet he gets to go free.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ok, starling is in with the conspirators now'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'STATE CONSPIRACY'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Follow the government by your nose rings then'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you in fact Osama bin Laden's 12th son, Crazee, DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what if your nose is fucking paranoid?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still waiting for you answer the question of what you consider proof.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I'm not "in with the conspirators"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm waiting for yours'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Find me evidence that there was a structural failure, and what and where it was'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, you consider a number of minor coincidences such as the fact that CEO of BP sold 1/3rd of his stocks in BP a month before the explosion as proof of a conspiracy, but the Coast Guard stating that it was an accident not to be proof.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but you work on oil fields. you have to be one of the lizard people who blows shit up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Deepwater Horizon was a combination of oilfield cockiness, cost-cutting measures, incompetent technicians, that sort of thing.  It happens all the time out here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, the words of the Coast Guard, the commission and anyone who investigated the oil rig is not proof.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So whose words do you want, DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the Coast Guard just cleans shit up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't blow shit up.  That being said, my rig did experience a downhole fire the other day.  Melted the bit, the air hammer, and the bottom 300 feet of the drill string.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'all the action happened in the financial markets'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'selling puts/calls, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you in fact Joseph Fritzl, DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'aha! that must be a part of some major plot. i'll go see if anyone has traded stocks during this year'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Starling has just bypassed Summoner Yuna's anus and connected his intestines directly to his mouth.  Now Summoner Yuna can REALLY talk some shit.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is Chemosh in fact YOUR saner alternate personality and you've finally wrested back control of your body from him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Chemosh is one of my alter personalities'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'It turns out people were trading stocks BOTH when the Watergate scandal happened, AND when we landed on the moon.  There is a link here people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are your parents in fact Bella Whatever (Swan?) and Edward Cullen, which explains your insanity?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'You need to open your eyes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nah. chemosh is a paranoid schizo. dosset is just paranoid'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's easy to preserve your world view using reductio ad absurdum'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'This just seems to be a biological coping mechanism/response'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'In your case, no reduction is needed.,'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I preserve my world view by using drugs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Find me evidence that it was an explosion, and I can consider that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'The absurdity is on the face of it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You haven't found any'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's easy to claim you have all the facts and the opposition has none by claiming coincidences to be established fact while established fact is just bullshit the government made up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, any evidence we find will just be dismissed as "The government is lying!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'what you don't realize is that you will call anything presented made-up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's how the coping algorithm works'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'It wasn't an explosion per se, it was a well kick.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"I'm not fat, I'm curvy"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do your parents in fact hate your guts, which is why they haven't tried to ahve you committed for your own good?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Your mom hates your guts, wishes she had aborted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '... you do realize that is EXACTLY what you are doing DosseT, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I haven't actually called any of your "facts" made-up, DosseT. That's YOUR M.O.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said that your "facts" are a serious of irrelevant coincidences.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Present to me facts supporting your side, and I can consider it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm not here to debate pointlessly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Actually, I'm tired of feeding the troll.  It's been fun though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you can convince me, I'll be convinced'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can't find anything, is the problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I couldn't either, which is what started it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Prove to me you aren't in fact Hitler, who's finally come out of hiding.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Back to botting, Jhav?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'If it makes you happy to think so, sure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You have yet to present anything for me to label as made up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'find something'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you won't'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Jhav is really Zibest.  Discuss.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how about stormlord?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's assume that you are ACTUALLY correct, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Sweet.  I competed against myself a bunch of times.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those two oil refinery explosions that somebody mentioned recently - was that fiction or indications of a business conspiracy which may or may not involve the governments'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and lost too!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'THAT'S some fast fingerwork.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sometimes, at least!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In Bizzaro World, where there is currently no evidence for that that explosion was spontaneous and not induced on purpose. A lack of evidence for one thing does not imply evidence for another.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe they've just been unable to determine the exact cause of the explosion. That happens sometimes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It does not mean that there is evidence that the explosion was induced on purpose.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Why would they induce an explosion on purpose?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Goldman Sachs moving money'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because, apparently, BP bought a company that cleans up oil spills shortly before the disaster and got in on cleaning up the oil spill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'They're in the business of making money, last I checked the accident cost them money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, they wanted to lose hundreds millions in order to make change by cleaning in the spill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is Bizarro World, Starling.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Hundreds of millions?  They lost billions :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'did the Obama administration gain from the BP spill'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, it's actually billions? I stand hideously corrected and shamed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I find these sort of ultra-right conspiracy theories are pretty insulting... There's an undercurrent of "oh, americans are exceptional and would never make a mistake unless it was deliberate, but foreigners are sub-human incompetents who could obviously never pull a surprise attack like pearl harbour or 911 without our permitting it!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If it were premeditated, there's no way in hell it could be kept secret'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'wondering why they did it leads more to speculation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'In the Jap'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That certain events occurred is not speculation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Pearl Harbour was likely orchestrated by the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ding!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Sonshi has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The Manhattan Project was supposedly super-secret, yet the Russians infiltrated it to the highest levels.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Damn enter key... In the Japs or US's defence, Pearl Harbour was a SERIOUS blunder by the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It was secret to Americans, Starling'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The participants themselves didn't know what they were doing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'DosseT, they sure as shit did'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'They were building a fucking bomb, of course they knew what they were doing :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hush, Vakieh. Bizarro World, remember.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'pearl harbour was a minor skirmish compared to later or earlier events...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nuclear scientist: "gee, I'm making plans for a bomb that could wipe out a city, but I have no idea what I'm doing!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Pearl Harbour got the USA into the world war  -- hence the whitehouse administration was likely involved in the orchestration'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'uhhh let's see, induce critical mass here, explosives there... yep, no idea what I'm doing in this super secret govt project.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ironically, I don't consider Forbes to be legitimate information, but here is more money background: http://www.forbes.com/sites/energysource/2010/05/18/bp-goldman-sued-oil-fraud/'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'pretty sure the U.S. and Japan were already AT war with each other prior to Pearl Harbour.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Economic only, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Of course they knew. And engineers still, today, justify for themselves that making weapons are a good thing. I don't know how they do that, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Much like the US/Euro and US/China is now'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only through embargo, etc. Although there were a few... incidents.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ranrr, in the long run, nukes saved more lives than they took'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Doubtful.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Vakieh the long run is really not over yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Terrorism rarely saves lives.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Even if you only look at WWII, the net difference is plain. Though yes, I'm banking on no nuclear winter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Atomic bombs kick ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Good heavens. The Nobel Peace Prize has been won by the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'how wierd is that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Nobel Peace Prize is horseshit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Obama won one while prosectuing multiple wars...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'About as weird as giving it to Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I mean, FFS.  Even Al Gore got one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so they gave the prize to an organisation they're part of. heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Stupid norwegians, they should not be allowed to call it "Nobel" peace prize.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Vakieh, the strange thing with Obama is that they gave him one before he'd had time to do anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'they aren't Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except there's a stark differences between the lives lost and the lives that would've been lost: 200,000 innocent civilians and soldiers who would've allegedly lost their lives in battle.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the norweigians get no say in the matter at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Nobel Prize is not awarded by Norwegians.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Noble peace prize committee seems swayed by political motivations (including political bribery) these days'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right, Yuna. The Nobel peace prize is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it's AWARDED in Norway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Swalec looks stuff up on Wikipedia and realises that he is totally wrong
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Nobel Prizes are awarded by a panel of 5 council members.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'hey, I've learned something on debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'thank you Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'These can be Swedish OR Norwegian.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if those 5 council menmbers are crazy ... or swayed by intimidation or bribery ...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i like it how yanks think that europe is a country :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's stupid is that the rules of the foundation blatantly state that they have to be five MEN.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the EU is similar to a cuntry'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it's similar to a continent. You know, like Europe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'define "cuntry"!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or, you know, like America.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There are trade agreements and laws which they all share. Kinda like how the U.S. and Canada have a partnership.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'pretty sure the definition of "country" isn't "partnership among land masses".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or are you saying Israel is a part of the U.S.?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think it's part of florida'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And, BTW, the EU isn't the only way european countries associate with each other or have trade agreements. It's just one of many.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Schengen is another one, that's almost as important.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'schengen is awesome'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's an easy way to tell if something is a real "country" or not. Does it have a military far in excess of its parts, fully responsible for its own defence?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'A country must have a military?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'someone should tell costa rica'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it doesn't, it's really a puppet of whoever's providing its defence...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some suspect that the fourth branch of the USA government (in an advisory or else position) is israel'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's a very US view of the world, Sonshi.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a very realistic view...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Obama is doing a fine job of dicking over Israel right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'For a imperialistic country that bases it's power on military, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Never understood why the U.S. is such a blind and staunch support of Israel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hard to be fully sovereign if someone else is your protector'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Because Israel kicks ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how is Obama dicking over Israel  (and what is "dicking over" -- showering gifts or pissing)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe both'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Israel is a great platform for inducing disorder in the middle east.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That was the reason it was created.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'thank the British'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Conspiracy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoKSh14l_Ko'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Vindicated http://www.zerohedge.com/article/internal-bp-document-confirms-matt-simmons-worst-case-prediction-spill-rate-100000-barrels-d'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'More info http://real-agenda.com/2010/12/16/the-bp-oil-spill-conspiracy-you-didnt-hear-about/'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Have fun'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm waiting for mine'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see... a video by a conspiracy theorist with no evidence asking the weasel question "Was X Y:ed by Z?" and two conspiracy theory sites with no evidence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sure smells like vindication!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone here ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not looking good for Obama now'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'saw some really wacky theories today'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is obviously a republican supporter'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not American'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if I were, i'd be a Libertarian supporter'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is obviously a nonAmerican republican supporter'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're obviously a troll'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is obviously a nonAmerican republican supporter, posing as a Libertarian, and is paranoid of trolls'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Stop fighting kids or I'll take away your toys'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you like to add extremist conspiracy theorist to that too?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade's just upset because he won't get an obamaphone'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why has Obama been wearing an Islamic wedding ring since 1981?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inscribed with the Shahada'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then further rumours coming out that he's gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'take it "jokes" forum'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't, the ring is fact'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'aren't those quite old rumours?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I suppose we'll have to wait another generation before someone digs into Obama's actual past and gives us all the facts, boring or not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll have silenced or bumped off most of the people who know anything about it though'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Barack Obama's ring (not his wedding ring) features what appears to be snakes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or something. Whatever they are, they're not friggin' Arabic writing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'boooring..might at least have been dragons'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/weddingring.asp'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we were talking about the ring he wears on his wedding finger'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He wears only one ring.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Doesn't look like a wedding band. Not everyone wears their wedding band every single day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Imagine that, you perpetuating more conspiracy theories to discredit Barack Obama using the weasel way of asking "Is it true that..." when you probably know that it's a blatant lie.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess you didn't like being upstaged by DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's likely given that he was taught Islamic Studies in Indonesia between 1967 and 1971 that it is indeed a ring inscribed with the Shahada'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I imagine there would be more bias against a gay president than a black president'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or candidate, whatever'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not likely at fucking all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That link I gave you has a close-up hi-res photo of that ring.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's just snakes or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the same close-up hi-res image i've seen elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's a random ring with absolutely no Arabic inscriptions on it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm glad you've examined this ring in person, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how the flying FUCK did you equate those snakes or whatever with Arabic?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look nothing like snakes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm glad YOU have to be able to conclude that it's Arabic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Glyphic representation of snakes. Or just random shit. It's not Arabic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you go off your meds again? This is crazier than normal, even for you, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Usually, you at least TRY to appear to not be crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd imagine it's quite a popular design'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That has NOTHING to do with Arabic verses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't know that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not fucking Arabic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tell me what arabic symbols those ringling thingies are supposed to represent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like it's very popular to have masonic symbology on rings'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'patriarch Kirill has a 30k$ wristwatch. that much more meaningful'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't mean necessarily the person buying it or wearing it is a mason'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like you saw Paul Ryan being utterly destroyed by Joe Biden and decided to do some damage control by reviving the old bullshit rumour of Obama being a Muslim.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is this why you're trying to outcrazy DosseT and Chemosh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And using every weasel tactic known to man?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Biden just came across as a crazy grumpy old man who kept interupting someone younger than him'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Is it true...?" "It's most probably an Islamic design. I'm not saying he's a Muslim for wearing it ,though!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though he did far better than Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan lied through his teeth the entire time and refused to give specifics. He just told us what he planned to do without telling us how he planned on achieving his goals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And, again, he LIED through his fucking teeth, as usual.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did he lie about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Right, because Obama wasn't expecting Romney to lie through his teeth...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'EVERYTHING. What DIDN'T he lie about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How about the unemployment rate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did he lie about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did he lie about the unemployment rate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney was more subtle in his lies, Pedwiddle.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, he did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'During the debate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no he didn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you suffering from sudden onset ADHD?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he asked about the unenmployment rate in Biden's home state, no?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He claimed it was at 8 or 8.5% (can't remember atm). It's at fucking 7.2%'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, no, it's not'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As of September, it is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Keep up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the latest official unemployment rates for september are artificially low because a state didn't submit their start of quarter data'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. Keep telling yourself that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which isn't much different to the UK governemt a decade ago changing the unemployment rate from being the unemployment rate to being the rate of people claiming unemployment benefit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never start an argument about a debate by saying "x quote statistic wrong"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll be on a hiding to nothign VERY time'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i notice neither of those kooks were prepared to stand up against American empirism and war'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're not even making sense anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'll be hiding to nothing very time?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where was the debate on the role of central government vs states'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Here's another blatant lie: Paul Ryan claimed that Democrats support abortion "without restriction and with taxpayer funding".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is demonstrably false.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where was the discussion on home security'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that depends on what the time of day is, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you liar.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That depends on NOTHING since the Democrats have put it into LAW that no taxes will ever go to fund abortions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, but it's true - ryan and romney change their opinion on abortion as often as their underwear'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or rather, they have not tried to repeal the laws that stipulate that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you just illiterate now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan claimed that DEMOCRATS support "without restriction and with taxpayer funding"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is a blatant LIE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already happens, NGO's do abortions'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same as here in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who CARES what Ryan and Romney think? Ryan LIED about what Democrats think. You asked for lies, I'm providing them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're politicians, yuna, politicians lie, doesn't matter which colour their flag is painted'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK does NGO doing abortions equate to TAX PAYER MONEY going to fund abortions?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the government funds them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said he lied, you acted outraged and demanded I specify when he lied.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I give you concrete examples and now it's all "Politicians lie all the time!"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i asked what he lied about'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, you're not a weasel at all!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'politicians lying isn't exactly news to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just... don't talk to me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there should be a radical wing in the democratic party (like the tea party). they should demand mandatory abortions for everyone'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait 'til your Partners in Insanity Chemosh and DosseT log on and you can have your little Triumvirate of Crazy in peace.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bill Maher heads it, and Bill Gates and Henry Kissinger are paid up members'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Hyde amendment, government can't fund abortions, true since 1976.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Yuna, if he is a weasel, do not say that he is not a weasel, '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When there's more than one of you active on Debate at the same time, I don't even have the energy to read your rants and ravings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not surprised given how much energy it takes to froth at the mouth like you do'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have you been chewing cyanide capsules again?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Cyrni, Tigernuts doesn't let pesky little details such as facts bother him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It would get in the way of his outrage at the politics of a country he does not live in and knows very little about.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'this place has gone to hell since chemosh was institutionalized or started taking his meds'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Chemosh was institutionalized?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Explains his absense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i forgot, everyone who doesn't agree with your far left rants is ignorant'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't know if it was. these are my two theories'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'if he was*'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He who claims U.S. tax payer money is going to fund abortions should STFU.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What is interesting is the actual employment figures more than the reported unemployment. Employment remains about 4% lower than pre-crash, and median and mean real wages are down 8% or so since the dot.com bubble, jobs, particularly jobs created since 2008 are increasingly part time and poorly paid service jobs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you short?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but this channel seems to be cursed with constant amount of crazy. chemosh was using it all up and doing everyone else a favor'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'All of that has little to do with Obama, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, Chemosh outcrazied all of the crazies and kept them at bay. I think even THEY were in awe of him and decided to let him speak for them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'With him gone, the crazies are all vying for the spot of Top Crazy and trying to outcrazy each other at different times of the day, which means at we never go more than 3 hours without a healthy dose of crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU got Nobel Peace Prize today'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i nearly fell out of my chair laughing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'total employment has been recovering, but a bit too slowly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'not funny. pretty sad actually'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you have to laugh, Dagnir, otherwise you'd get angry and depressed'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'almost as bad as giving it to obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't want to hear about it. The nobel prize committee has been an embarassment for the past 20 years and it's not getting any better'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like Nigel Farage's response on telly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so austerity at this juncture would really crash employment...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'maybe next year it goes to israel for keeping peace in gaza?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which makes the election a critical one'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, it's Norwegian, they're all a bit off in the head'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give it to Al-Quaida'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Wasn't Hitler nominated just before ww2?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for their work keeping peace in Libya and Syria'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give it to the Taliban!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'he was times' man of the year'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet again your ignorance rears it ugly head.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'While being racist, no less.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did anyone hear something?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Norwegians of the world, Tigernuts just insulted all of you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the Nobel Peace Prize is not Norwegian. It's just handed out in Norway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'oh well, i'm going to call it a day. nuts said something i somewhat agreed with'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by a committee headed by a Norwegian'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By a binational committee consisting of Swedes and Norwegians. I believe the current committee is predominately Swedish.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'presented by the Norwegian Nobel Committee on behalf of Alfred Nobel's estate'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like calling the E.U. by the nationality of whoever the sitting chairman or whatever s/he's called is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clues in the title "Norwegian Nobel Committee"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to be pedantic, sure, call it "Scandinavian"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which part of the EU gets the cash from the Nobel Peace prize'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Hope it's me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The committee is selected by the Norwegian Parliament, and unsurprisingly consists of (former) Norwegian politicians.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty1OQBjJmeY&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'commentary by good ole Max Keiser'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It has also been quite some time since they gave up pretending to follow Nobel's testament and began using the peace prize to further whatever political agenda the current members favour'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Seems like our world is running out of peace. Or the committee is running out of ideas.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'to be fair, severarl of the recent recipients might arguably deserve the prize'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't you glad in a world running out of peace that both presidential candidates are warmongers, and so is pretty much all of Nato'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you hear the UK passed a defence treaty with Bahrain today?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for fuck sake'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not just suck the dick of Satan and be done with it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The U.K. passed a defense treaty with Bahrain today and you didn't open with that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Instead you tried to defend Paul Ryan for his lies, tried to slam Obama for being a Muslim and talked trash about Norwegians?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i started last night with "UK jails a man for 4 months for wearing a t-shirt"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Good to know where your priorities lie.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Tigernuts, was he naked below waist?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'the man who was sent to jail for "wearing a t-shirt"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it had the slogan "One less pig, perfect justice" on it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in reference to an incident where 2 policewomen died a few weeks back'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'not very considerate of him I'd say'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, not at all, but it was an overeaction, and one that really doesn't do the image of the police or the judiciary much good'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're withholding the entire truth (as usual).'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The T-Shirt ALSO said "killacopforfun.com".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could have asked him to remove the tshirt, or fined him'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure that's encouraging violence against a group of people, which is against the law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, if he'd insulted mohammad instead of the police, he'd be a conservative hero and they'd be defending his right to free speech... picked on the wrong guys there...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He did this TWO HOURS after two police officers died in a shocking gun and grenade attack.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure it is, else he wouldn't have been prosecuted for a public order offence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wasn't complaining about the arrest, yuna, but the sentance'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is killacopforfun.com a legitimate website'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He pleaded guilty to, and I quote, "a public order offense".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you just openly INSANE now, Tigernuts?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'One should not encourage violence against anyone. Questor is the only exception. And maybe Commander Barcett as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given that the people responsible for rigging the interbank loan rates haven't gone to prison at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor did the cop that killed a man during the g20 protests'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you saying he WASN'T sentenced for a public order offense?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor did the cops that shot an unarmed man in tottenham last year that lead to the riots'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was jailed for 4 months for a public order offence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'EVERY single fucking source for this story states that he was convicted of a public order offense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi just got the easiest campaign ever! he only has to kill 6 Crows, 1 Kitten and 3 ElFeneris.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he wasn't convicted of inciting violence against police'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again I must ask you, Tigernuts, do you EVER fact check ANYTHING before going on your signature ignorant rants?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that barcett...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if saying something offensive was illegal, you'd be in prison, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Inciting violence and encouraging violence are different things.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, who knows, maybe he managed to plead it down for a lesser sentence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'possible'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the report didn't mention that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they normally do'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They usually don't for such minor articles.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is a guy who pleaded guilty and who also only got 4 months for breaching the terms of a prior sentence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(For 8 months in total). Pretty sure you usually get more than 4 months for that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He probably got a plea deal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, 8 months is a long time for UK prison terms, our prison are overfull'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That or it's not inciting violence unless you're actually openly asking people to commit violent acts, as in walking around telling people to kill cops.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's 8 months for TWO offenses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not a single one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '4 months each.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'electric and gas prices to go up 9% in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'qreset prices go up 23% on aardwolf'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'proliferation of t9's'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'free market with a daemon manipulating it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'several demons!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all dancing on the head of a pin!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK do the Republicans keep getting crazy science-denying wingnuts on the House Committee for Science and Technology?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same reason that Democrats got crazy mad-scientist evil corporation nuts into positions of authority'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, not only is Todd Akin of "Women's bodies have ways to shut down the reproductive system in cases of legitimate rape" fame a member, but so is Paul Broun, who thinks the Earth was created in 6 days 9000 years ago and that embryology, Evolution and the Big Bang Theory are "lies from straight out of Hell"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name some, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tome Vilsack'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tom Vilsack, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how is he evil?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'until you realise that both sides get people onto "panels" because of lobbyists, you'll be stuck in the "your crazy people are crazier than our crazier people"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And mad-scientist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the board of Montsanto, i believe'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not on the board of Monsanto.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the republicans use the christian fundamentalist connections to insert religious mental-retard wingdingbats into various positions'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Can you name some decisions he's made as secretary of agriculture that is obviously pro mad-scientist evil corporation?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he is a Montsanto lobbyist'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, he WAS a Montsanto lobbyist. Name some legislation he's championed that clearly unfairly helps Monsanto.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'erm, was?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did he suddenly renounce his views?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Being a lobbyist is an actual job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not a set of beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's this thing called "a record"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. And if he USED to lobby for Monsanto, he USED to be a Monsanto lobbyist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of the English language is confusing you here?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ah well, don't blame those people for gassing all those jews, it was jsut their JOB'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not what I was saying and you know it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's exactly what you were saying'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I said that he USED to be a Monsanto lobbyist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a direct conflict of interest if you're a lobbyist going into politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You challenged that claim, implying he still WAS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You think if someone jumps from private to public sector, they renounce their special interests?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'btw, Monsanto is not something "out of Hell", Monsanto is where Hell goes to learn :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yuna does, Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck are you talking about? Lobbyists become politicians all the fucking time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think he's a bit simple'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, yuna, and you might have noticed that politics is a "bit corrupt about the edges"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or did the banking crisis happen in a parallel universe to you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm waiting for evidence that BP Deepwater Horizon was not a money-backed corporate venture'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Answer the fucking question. What part of his tenure as sec. of agri. is clearly so "mad-scientist, evil corporation"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"He used to be a lobbyist for Monsanto" isn't actually a proper answer.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm waiting for evidence that you're not criminally insane, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You clearly don't know how proper debate works. You can demand someone prove something ISN'T true.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you work for XYZ bank and lose your job, you get a job at the SEC, vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Monsanto/FDA are all the same people'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm waiting, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Answer the very simple question.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'waiting for what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the world doesn't revolve around your warped sense of reality, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your tactic is to get people to qualify data that you reject out of fear of its shattering your bubble'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You claim Tom Vilsack is "mad-scientist, pro evil corporation". So what has he done as secretary of agriculture that's clearly that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm not sure losing your job at XYZ bank engenders feelings of love for them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sending the feds after people distributing raw milk was one of his, i believe, as was prosecuting someone for hay dust'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's somehow mad-scientist, pro evil corporation?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for allowing Montsanto to bring their products to market without independant testing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How about not removing GMO products?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, pretty sure he has no power to prosecute people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, know what Agent Orange is?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for even -contempalting- allowing Montsanto to have immunity from future prosecution'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Monsanto doesn't have the best track record'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sources, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What are your sources, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if he was a Monsanto lobbyist, and yet supports Monsanto, then he is yet a Monsanto lobbyist even though no longer an officiall registered Monsanto lobbyist'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://unifiedserenity.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/only-the-guilty-seek-immunity-from-prosecution-the-monstant-rider/'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How about you give me actual sources.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as an aside, US supreme court cases (well, summaries, anyway) make for pretty interesting reading. It's pretty amazing what can be legal or illegal in the US...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's a private blog run by who knows who whose only source is a website that runs "Real news powered by the People, Naturally."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you dont' accept any sources that disagree with your bubble, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which sounds like a private blog that sources news aggregator site.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/2012/06/19/farm-groups-and-public-interest-advocates-join-forces-to-oust-dangerous-%E2%80%98biotech-provision%E2%80%99-from-agriculture-spending-bill/'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, how the FUCK was that Tom Vilsack's fault?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'notice the difference between "official-registered lobbyist" and "covert unofficial-no-longer-registered yet-a-supporter lobbyist" -- both are "lobbyists"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The article you linked to speaks of a bill in the HOUSE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which, as you very well know, is controlled by the fucking Republicans.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And Tom Vilsack has ABSOLUTELY no power there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you're blaming Tom Vilsack for a bill authored and championed by Republicans?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you expect me not to read your "source"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You speak so much of superficial U.S. politics, yet know nothing about how it runs'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i expect you to froth at the mouth like you usually do'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'everyone knows how U.S. politics runs... it doesn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's your excuse for providing me with a source that doesn't in any way prove your claim?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Saric, Yuna is from Sweden; he only has the outsider perspective fed to him by the media'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I know this'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and then uses that world view to challenge those living within the system'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tom Vilsack's association with Montsanto has not been challenged'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what the fuck do you mean "and?"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You made a ludicrous claim. I asked you to source it. You sourced it with bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Time for you to source, big mouth'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What has Tom Vilsack done in office that is "mad-scientist, pro evil corporation"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Montsanto -is- an evil corporation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That was the demand. You proved that the House Republicans are pro evil corporation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit like demanding proof that Hitler was evil'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Yuna is foaming at the mouth with cuss-words -- and is obviously losing the debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Find me evidence that Deepwater was not financially motivated Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'U.S. citizens media isn't any better than that in other nations... especially since we have fox "news"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, what you're doing is kinda claiming the Pope is a nazi because he was in the Hitler Jugend as a youth despite him never having done anything nazi-like.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'find me evidence that USA and UK didn't depose the rightly elected Iranian leader Mohammed Mossadeq in the 1950s'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'find me evidence that the Syrian Regime were responsible for mortar attacks on Turkey'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tom Vilsack has not done anything that unfairly helps Monsanto (unless you can show proof that he has) while in office. The Republicans I speak of have done and said blatantly insane things while in office.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in your opinion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's all you have'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and a swimming pool full of foam'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of "Demanding evidence that someone DID something" is not the same of "Demanding evidence that someone DIDN'T do somethign" was too Canadian French for you when I said it to DosseT, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'reading through supreme court cases... Minneci v. Pollard - inmates can sue govt employees in public prisons, but not employees of a private prison company.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no wonder they want to privatise prisons...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You cannot demand someone prove that somethign DIDN'T happen. But if someone makes a claim that something DID happen, they have to prove it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already privatised here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'UK law is different'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk law is a bit shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You are a strong S-type Sensor; you only see what is.  The lack of something is evidence as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If Johnny has chocolate on his face, hands, and is holding a cookie, and a cookie is missing from the jar, he likely ate one from the jar'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If Johnny does not have chocolate on his face, hands, and is not holding a cookie, and no cookies are missing, he likely didn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Deal with it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd say foaming control freak, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i bet he likes rules and checklists'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fact you are friends with every conspiracy theorist on the MUD is quite telling, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'friends?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Lack of evidence is evidence; deal with it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You agree with them on pretty much everything in debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not friends with Dosset, he clearly just isn't a twat'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, because "Lack of evidence is evidence" clearly isn't insane.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or being a twat.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you were sitting here eating cherries all day, and I don't see pits and stems, then you weren't sitting here eating cherries all day'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'lack of evidence is specifically not evidence.... by definition. Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't you ever just argue about anything of any kind of relevence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Simple concept'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the classic "Hitler didn't hate the Jews because he once made a speech that doesn't mention them" is totally not being insane.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Chemosh said that)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A notable lack of evidence, Saric'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why can't you ever just provide evidence, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because opinions don't require evidence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'As in, if there were a natural explosion, you'd expect to find and observe natural explosive dynamics'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither do things that are self evident'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Lack of natural dynamics (lack of evidence in line with the alleged story) is evidence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why can't you ever just use proper debate techniques? When someone asks for proof/sources for your outrageous claims, the proper response is not to either not provide any or provide bogus evidence and then make ad hominems on the challenger when they call you on it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'no... nothing is evidence except evidence. That's... what makes it evidence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not proper debate technique, that's what you believe is proper debate technique'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I wish Yuna would shut the fuck up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the only thing a debate involved was facts, then there would be no debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Starling person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Saric, if you said you peeled the potatoes and put the skins in the trash, and I look in the trashcan and see no skins'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I figure the evidence (no skins) is that you are lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'evidence isn't something always tangible'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I like the colour purple!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps Tigernuts uses the Republican debate technique: tell blatant lies'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'PROVE IT! YOU LIAR! !!!!111!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the evidence in that case is an empty trash can. You said it yourself'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just fucking vote already'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not the fucking same thing as "There's no evidence the BP oil disaster WASN'T induced manually by the CIA, so it MUST'VE been a CIA operation", DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There was no logical leap like that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'O RLY? "The BP oil spill was a CIA operation" "What? How?" "Prove that it was a 'natural' explosion!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'precisely'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DosseT doesn't understand silly things like that, Saric.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna fails to accept the common knowledge that BP was induced to make money'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they clearly cut corners'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's common knowledge; you are the conspirator suggesting that the media's story is correct'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, anything DosseT believes is common knowledge.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the null hypothesis is always "nothing special is going on here". If you're trying to argue against that, you require a reason (or evidence) to prove your point'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what part of the explosion doesn't seem normal?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The fact BP lied down the number 2 orders of magnitude, and the whistleblower involved was found dead?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That the slurry was faulty, and BP had no comment to make about it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That puts were sold right before the "accident"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Learn basic finance'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The whitleblower died. Clearly, that's evidence he was assassinated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're trying to remove legal protection for whistleblowers in both UK and USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He died, ergo he was assassinated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't like it up them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, like all whistleblowers die, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Aaron Russo just died, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wouldn't want to be a whistleblower, they have a really fucking high mortality rate'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Milton William Cooper just died, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'David Kelly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Andrew Breitbart'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one should note that the larger the explosion is, up to a point, the less likely it was artificial...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't take my word for it, listen to their own testimony...from 30 years ago  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSEnurBApdM'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Lee Hazledean'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Dude, you live in a bubble of denial'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Terry Yeakey'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe the accident happened before the accident was reported (and the puts happened after the accident yet before the accident was reported)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm starting to think that my original theory is correct: Chemosh was institutionalized, but somehow has Internet access. DosseT is Chemosh' alter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or vice versa.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as another aside, Minneci v. Pollard - if a govt official lies under oath to get you convicted of a false charge, he still has immunity from a civil suit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong response to testimony on CIA weaponry'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if his friends don't want to press criminal perjury charges, too bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there have never been any politically or intelligence-community motivated assassinations, anyone who says otherwise is a conspiracy theorist'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure there have been'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Alexander Litvinenko killed himself, clearly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Tigernuts. I know that you're feeling the pressure to be out-crazy the other crazies now that Chemosh isn't there to reign you in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not what I said. What I said was that the fact that some guy died is not evidence that he was assassinated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it gets out pretty quickly. Pretty much impossible to hide involvement'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, that's entirely fair'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, response to testimony on CIA heart attack weapon from 1975'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Oh wait, you have none'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Boris Johnson for American President'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, DosseT, the fact that the CIA may have assassinated some people in the past does not mean that they assassinated this particular person.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not even circumstantial evidence now. Now it's just you pointing and saying "I'm right, so there!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'call it convenient then'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The person they assassinated was one exposing that BP lied about the volume of oil spilling'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'by 2 orders of magnitude'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that means two 0s for the uninclined'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, BP lying about the volume of oil spilling is OBVIOUSLY evidence that the explosion was deliberate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't get it, do you'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'None of this proves that the explosion was deliberate. You have assumptions, circumstantial evidence and coincidences that imply OTHER things. But not that the explosion was deliberate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what i can say is that the dispersents used were far more dangerous to the environment than the oil was'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I don't speak Crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They lied the number down to a level commensurate with the explosion, to fit the story'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The actual level was 100x higher'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why leak the oil?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Simple scenario: weak mainframe leaks much oil; create weak tanker that will explode in a spectacle to act as scapegoat for leakage'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't understand simple deception'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I don't understand Crazy Talk.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i want to understand motivation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The slurry wall and alarm system on the tanker were weak and disabled respectively; it was a made-to-fail spectacle to feed the sheep'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'This is proven'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'look, they had cameras on the leak... There's nothing to suggest it was anything other than incompetence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't focus on the leak itself'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The question is not what?, rather why?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sensing vs. iNtuition'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '"to feed the sheep"? wtf'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes Saric'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to feed the sheep, like the Olympics, like Jimmy Saville inquest'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and the volume leaked is entirely consistent with what was observed, so even though BP tried to downplay the volume, it would've emerged eventually anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to distract the public from something more important'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It did emerge Sonshi, and they were caught lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'twice'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No response to why the tanker did not have an audible alarm system, and had weak slurry walls'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The tanker was built to be destroyed'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'This is proven'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but why?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still waiting for the part where the CIA is clearly in on this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, tastes like a duck, and has all the regular insides of a duck... please don't tell me it's a cow.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Wtf is Dosset talking about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'you're claiming that BP decided to destroy a PROFITABLE oil rig and utterly destroy its stock value and reputation to.... "feed the sheep"? That is beyond incomprehensible'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is he saying that? or is he saying someone sabotaged BP'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'well he just said it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's 1 step back, 3 steps forward'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Cyrni, DosseT claims that British Petroleum (BP) deliberately destroyed their oil tank thingie to destroy their stock value (and the environment) in order to be able to make less money than they lost on cleaning the spill up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he seems to think that wrecking their reputation will somehow make them lots of money!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He further claims that the CIA helped BP not only orchestrate the spill but to also assassinate a whistleblower.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Billions were made on the sale of stock options'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, not BP itself'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a cartel; they're all the same company'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Here's something even you may understand: remember when Wakka learned that Yevon uses guns and technology?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still waiting for the part where the CIA is somehow involved.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, hedging?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yea, amazing, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still waiting for that CIA involvement.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'BP isn't an individual entity; the whole cartel is owned by a small group; it's easy to scapegoat one company in the public's eye'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'who might this small group be? or is it a secret'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, still waiting for the part where the CIA is involved.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Ok, so BP intentionally destroyed Deepwater Horizon to benefit a cartel, because Final Fantazy X, Got it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually investment funds controlled by global banks'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No Cyrni; they destroyed it and took a small loss to make a bigger margin in the financial markets'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'CIA involvement, still waiting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The pro is that in the public's eye, they blame an irresponsible company, and the guvment washes its hands'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, it's the same group that sabotaged his school results, put chemicals in his water to make him stupid, and made him unpopular in school. The whole pattern fits!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Some guy died, he was probably assassinated. Probably by the CIA" isn't an actual argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the CIA are the brownshirts'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'lol how many times has Yuna asked about CIA with no response'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm lagging'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, sure, you're lagging.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: '$100 billion in market cap is a small loss?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You were able to reply to others just fine. Just not to my demands that you source your ludicrous claims.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a small group earning a lot money (criminally) from (insider) stock options may be willing to sacrifice a company from which their personal longterm profits are less than from the (insider) stock options'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, like Facebook, Zade?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your basic mode of thinking prevents you from understanding'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'will you wonder where a chicken egg came from, if you didn't see a chicken lay it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still waiting for you brilliant evidnece for how the CIA is involved.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and the same small group gives special antidotes to their chosen ones, which is why the rich people can dominate their peons! And they're actually ETs! From Sirius XI!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Any government dirty work is done by the CIA; it's their job'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The chicken came first. There's scientific evidence for this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'dirty work happens? CIA did it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense, Sonshi, they're space lizards from mars'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not an actual argument, as I JUST told you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You missed the point, Yuna.  If you don't see something with your own eyes, despite obvious knowledge, you doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If I showed you a chicken egg, you would wonder if a chicken had laid it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"The CIA was involved because someone was assassinated. We know someone was assassinated because the CIA is involved." <- Circular BULLSHIT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'because you hadn't seen it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some in the USA may've (CIA) contenanced a "small" oil-spill in the gulf of mexico in order to wrest control of the oil from BP -- but the oil-spill was not "small"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'space lizards from Mars, who are actually controlled by a small group of ETs from Sirius XI! They're behind it all!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not actually his argument, Zade.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally think the CIA are wonderful, we should praise them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Any financially-motivated dirty work is done by the CIA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His batshit insane argument is that: 1) The BP oil spill was deliberate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prove it's not'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '2) It was orchestrated by the oil cartels of which BP is a member.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '3) For some insane reason, the CIA helped.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They didn't "help"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama should have kept his affro, he looks so much better with it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They are simply the grunts that do the work'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I love how all of this is the work of a "small group"... I'm assuming nobody knows who the "small group" actually is, so how do we know it's small?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's the Illuminat, the NWO, the banksters...whatever you want to call it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lack of evidence is not evidence. And the inability to disprove something does not mean it's proven.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'You can't prove a negative DosseT, it's impossible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You cannot prove that you're not Chemosh's alter. It doesn't mean you are.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can't reject my null hypothesis, so it stands'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I rejected your null hypothesis that it was a regular industry occurrence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's the CRAZY point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can tell you that John Corzine is a thief, Leon Panetta is a warmongering dickwad, Romney has a Ryan stuck up his arse, and that Joe Biden is hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I direct you for answers to the Ron Paul I supported before'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Reject my null hypothesis then; I'm willing to accept new information'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'may I direct your attention to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Null_hypothesis'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Joe Biden is like a crazy old grandad that doesn't realise that you shouldn't swear in front of children, and still thinks it's acceptable to drop the N bomb'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I would've been less nice to Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan lied every time he opened his mouth. That or he refused to actually answer the question he was given.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't like Paul Ryan, Romney should have picked Rand Paul'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He should be GLAD Joe Biden didn't rip into him even MORE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what Ron ImmagonnaplundertheUStoinflatemyportfolio Paul?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't know if it went through, but that article is in line with what I'd said: you don't prove, simply fail to reject'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ron Paul likes pussy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the guy who had a portfolio that would increase dramatically if he were to ruin the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's called knowing where it's headed, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the economy is ruined, it can only go one way'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do you think so many uber rich are investing in gold?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while running for political office?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan's tax plan would allow Mitt Romney to pay an effective tax rate of 1%. Yeah, these clowns surely want the best for 100% of the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with no statement that he'd divest should he win?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why do you think so many of the uber rich are moving to China?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could be construed as a conflict of interests, could also be construed as being sensible'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Ron Paul has some seriously frightening ideas (Gold standard, seriously?), but at least he's earnest and doesn't say whatever the people in front of him want to hear like Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Saric.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'how is the idea that we can create credit endlessly with no oversight worse than the gold standard?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a guy who apparently thinks people are dumb enough not to notice such a huge conflict of interest?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i question the gold standard idea, too, but i like most of the rest of his policies'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mitt Romney is a turncoat who'll say whatever he thinks his current audience wants to hear. Paul Ryan just lies all day long.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is also extremely true, Xei'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A real winning ticket, that Romney-Ryan ticket.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(most are, but that's not the point)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some of the Islamic countries were contemplating a return to the gold standard'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Ron Paul wants almost anybody able to issue currencies ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'look who issues it now'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anybody can issue a currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, just yesterday, Mitt Romney claimed that if elected president, he would NOT change any legislation regarding abortion, despite having said the direct opposite before.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yeah Ron Paul's economic mindset is pretty out there'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'a private cartel'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'before the fed, banks did it, now there's just a monopoly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, I suspect any good social policies he holds are probably only held to appeal to people so that he can propagate ideas which are financially beneficial to him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jesus christ, we'd ALMOST started something important of value and Yuna drags out abortion again'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Less than 24 hours (22 hours) after that statement was released, his own campaign manager issued a statement that said that Mitt Romney was wrong and that he would in fact repeal abortion laws.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts raises his hand in a fluid motion and pretends he's shooting a gun.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is not about abortion. This is about credibility. And lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ok Obama supporter'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'd moved on from Ryan'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Mitt Romney has claimed just about every stance on every issue. I'm suprised the flip-flop term hasn't been thrown around more like in 2004'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we were on Ron Paul and economics'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I think the point is that Romney's a blatant liar, unlike your average politician, who's a bit subtler.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why should I care about Ron Paul? Man's crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's consistent and up-front about his bucket of crazy, but he's crazy nonetheless.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing crazy about him at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and even lies aside, the gop economic platform is terrible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'why should i care about either of the two candidates? they both will continue the killing, the drug war, and every U.S. atrocitiy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'repeal laws in which direction: repeal for abortion or repeal against abortion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Xei!!!  Tigernuts cheers him on.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, Xei'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote for Gary Johnson'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one side will crash the economy...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're the same platform: not yours'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'no president can stop what's coming, economy wise'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'ships sailed bros'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'One is trying to solve the crisis, the other will deliberately plunge the country into a 2nd depression.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'this talk of tinkering with taxes and spending...it'll never happen. the debt won't be paid, can't be paid'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my arse is he trying to solve it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Take your pick, the one TRYING to help the country or the one trying to help only himself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'under obama, the worst case is that the US winds up with a japan-like economy...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The CFR runs the USA corporation, Yuna.  The liberal/conservative argument is white noise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dosset's right on that point'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'under Romney, a likely case is a repeat of the steps taken to the great depression...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely romney will see ww3'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why can't he do both?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whereas obama will see the end of the united states'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't underestimate Romney!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a hige economic divide between the parties... you'd have to be pretty blind to see otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(huge)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'll go the way of Hugo Chavez'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He who trolls right-wing conspiracy blogs and claims Obama is a secret Muslim based on a ring with squiggly shapes should shut up, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't even live here Yuna; you just have what the media shows you'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'd have more credibility if you observed that to which lip service is made'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'i see romney as very belligerent on the foreign policy front, which is bad. that ain't good'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I don't live in Crazy Land with you, DosseT. I am infinitely glad for that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, yuna, i won't bow down to your deity'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't -want- an obamaphone'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'banana phone'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Xei, he declared an ally (I can't remember which one) a geopolitical enemy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the gop economic platform makes chilling reading for anyone familiar with economics or economic history...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Imagine what he'd do to the U.S. actual enemies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the democratic one is just... meh'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democrats platform fails on the constitution and liberty front'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that, more than anythign else is why i hate it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'well, that's the point. there is no salvation in the major parties.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that hate comes from me seeing the parallels with here in the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'gary johnson or jill stein is a protest vote, not much else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no it doesn't... at least until promises are broken. Compare with the gop...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if Johnson can get 5% he gets funds for next time, get 10% he gets lots of funds, 15% he gets into the debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you guys did kick out the labour party in favour of an austerian one...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if Johnson were in the debates, it would be a gamechanger, not necessarily for him winning, but for him significantly undermining th eother votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Voting third party is meaningless. All you'll do is invalidate your vote. In an election where the two major parties are so staunchly different on pretty much every single issue, not voting or voting third party is a meaningless protest.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Vote for the smallest evil if you dislike both parties.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'labour party and tories here are the same, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'i refuse to vote for evil'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But with so much at stake, do not vote third party... unless you live in a state that's heavily for either side, so your vote really won't count.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'labour favoured less austerity'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i won't vote for either'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'labour favoured inflation and devaluation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, don't vote third party if you live in a swing state. Contemplate voting even if you're apathetic to both major parties if you DO live in a swing state.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see? Much better than the alternative!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and you say there's no difference...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no such thing as states here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I don't know... at the same time, unless you live in one of about 6 battleground states, voting rep or dem is pretty worthless as well. If you really want your vote to count... move to a battleground state'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong armchair U.S. politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, inflation/devaluation is pretty much the correct choice, while the current policy is almost the exact opposite. I can't see how you'd conclude that there isn't much difference between them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sonshi, the people get screwed either way'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you inflate away the debts, people get poorer, if you increase taxes, people get poorer, if you cut services, people get poorer'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't disagree with any one method, but they don't DO it, they half-arse it. the austerity we've had is salami slicing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'salami slicing just hurts EVERYONE'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you increase taxes for the wealthy so they pax the same percentage of taxes as the poor, people don't get poorer, the wealthy get less filthy rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you must be kidding. I'll take mild inflation and low unemployment (and hence crime) over economic depression any day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'people want to believe there's some silver biullet. if we can just get the right people in office and pass the right legislation, we get out of this and no one gets hurt'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're going to do austerity, do it in one hit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The wealthy have off-shores and lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mild inflation won't solve this'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're too J-type; you think everything works how you're told it does'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're going to do austerity in one hit, the country will go down... in one hit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'problem is, damage has been done, we just have to decide who pays for it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and neither can you have mild inflation with low unemployment'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's stimulus that has to be done in one hit'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't, Sonshi, Canada didn't, Iceland didn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What happened to me being S-type or whatever? NOw I'm a J-type as well?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You are, learn MBTI'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and austerity that has to be applied slowly, when the patient is healthy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the patient was never healthy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'i don't believe in austerity either, i believe in default, because that's how you stick it to the bankers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fine, Xei. The Democrats want the rich to pay, the Republicans want the Middle Class to pay. Who do you support in this issue?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when the patient is unhealthy you either do it in one go and hope, or don't do it at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a bit like blood transfusions... when the patient is on the ropes, you need to get blood back in the system quickly. When the patient is healthy, you can get him to donate a bit of blood now and then.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'what i just said. i believe in default; i reject any system that obligates future generations to debt'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Xei person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'any society that forces unborn generations to pay for current services is morally corrupt'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How is raising the taxes on the rich obligating future generations to debt?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds like the UK, Xei'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'iceland did inflation/devaluation... not austerity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'raising taxes on the rich doesn't cover the deficit spread.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iceland decided not to take the bankers' debts'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they also raised taxes on the rich, and redistributed wealth, which prevented total collapse'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't get rid of the deficit just like that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'doesn't come close, and of course you have the laffer curve.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best way to get rid of a deficit is not to have one in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What is YOUR brilliant solution?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sedition'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It feels more and more like you just want to complain, Xei.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have one, it's too big'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'what you're asking is like talking to the guy that downed 2 handles of vodka the tight before, and today, has a massive hangover'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'and looking for some magical cure'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You claimed that there's no way to stop the upcoming crash and that you can only decide who has to pay for it. I presented the case that Democrats want the rich to pay while Republicans want the Middle Class to pay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote democrat, xei'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'you should have just not gotten so damn drunk'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NOBODY CAN PAY'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the point, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your response is some nonsense about indebting future generations and how there's no way to get rid of the entire deficit in one go.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eit's tooooo big'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Look past the words; they're lies.  The people bear the burden, which was created to enslave them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'you're oversimplifying it, acting as if we either raise taxes on the rich or raise taxes on the middle class, and one of those has to be chosen.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody said you can get rid of it all, Tigernuts. Stop trying to refute points nobody ever made.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't know how it works in Sweden, but a 21-year old college grad can easily be $100k in debt'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'University tuition is free.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fed is planning to nationalise property ownership in USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'lol. i've got a friend with 150k in debt, law degree, no job prospects'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you look at how austerity is working out in europe now, their younger generations are burdened with such high unemployment that they risk losing a substantial part of that generation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's buying up all the mortgage papers'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'In the U.S., debt is created to force you to work out of it forever'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'hence "wage slave"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You have kids $100k in debt that can't get a job at Starbucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We get approximately 300 dollars in stipends from the government every month for studying at uni.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's better to earn 50k and owe 80k than it is to earn 5k and owe nothing...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Furthermore, we can borrow up to 700 additional dollars a month at very low interest rates from the government.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't that depend on your cost of living?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'just ask Vijay Mallya'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I assumed real income'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The only expenses uni students have are books, lodging and food.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'adjusted for ppp and all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Socialism, it's evil and stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'once upon a time here university was free, you got free money to help towards your living expenses'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally, countries like the US, UK, Japan, etc. are in far better shape than somalia'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That sounds like Sweden cares about investment in human capital; in the U.S., students are oxen pulling a yoke to create money'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's why it may be hard to see why the politics are all lies'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then labour got in and tried to get 50% of people into Uni, which not only broke the system, but also instantly devalued degrees'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'd have to come here and see it yourself'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for a poor country like the UK, they should've stuck with 40%!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'As students become more indebted, they become more government dependent, and vote pro-government.  See how it works?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We also have excellent universal healthcare. Dental care is free 'til you turn 21.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Create dependence on the government by eliminating financial independence'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was at around 15-20% because it was based on ability'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is what University SHOULD be'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '15-20%? Seriously?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You actually support a system where the vast majority of uni applicants don't get into uni?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I doubt it... hard to call yourself an industrialised nation if only 15-20% are going to uni'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'industry didn't used to require a degree'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Sonshi, it's actually worse than that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think for us, it's currently running at 1/3 uni, 2/3 technical and others, for our younger generations'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's worse than 3rd world countries!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we'll soon surpass the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Were you the Singaporean, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, somalia probably doesn't have 5%, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not ALL 3rd world countries.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just several that have better uni ratios.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The dumb thing about the 'low levels of uni and the rest go vocational' is that the old vocational jobs are being replaced by robots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and I have to say, we enjoy beating the UK in terms of per capita real GDP.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Sonshi has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, some of us'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a mildly diuretic bullock has a higher gdp than UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'now we're in a position to preach endlessly about how the primitives over there don't know how to run their country!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, the U.K. is being run by conservatives...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What are those Chinese cities in Africa for?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'things have been going downhill here since the end of WW2'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pretty sure WWI and WWI weren't exactly highlights for the mother country...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could argue it's been going downhill since .... 1066?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'generally, society sucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'People who talk about 'the good ol' days' are either delusional old people, or young people who have no idea'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but here's a good definition of democracy for you: Two wolves and a sheep voting for what's for dinner'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you look at several measures of our economy, our per capita real gdp isn't higher than the UK or the US because of greater productivity or whatever... it's largely because our workforce has been consistently putting in a high number of hours per worker, while "western" countries often dip every recession and take a long time to recover.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'back then sucked, now sucks, and the future will more than likely suck too.  Deal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's your fault, Vakieh!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should the abortion time limit be reduced from 24 to 22, or to 12 weeks?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it's not too hard to do too. Just engage in sufficient fiscal stimulus each time, enough to make sure that unemployment doesn't rise too far. Unless your interest rates rise, debt doesn't really matter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will have no meaningful employment until you have meaningful industry'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Again, Sonshi, Singapore is an AWFUL example of fiscal policy, as they are a single urban centre - the 'real world' doesn't work like that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's for the private sector to decide'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will have no meaningful industry in the UK while we're being browbeaten by the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, china has been doing it too, though they're still third world'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and taiwan, and south korea...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some say China is about to have a major economy bubble burst'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they have rural areas too!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sonshi - how well off are the Chinese rural populations?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'poor!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but taiwan and skorea are fine'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'SKorea and Taiwan are where they are due to US investment...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doesn't change the point about stimulus...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sonshi, look at what Bernanke's doing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the stimulus in both UK and USA wasn't really a stimulus'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was just money printed and handed to banks who sat on 95% of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it never really got to the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's say left, go right'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Stimulus, sure - but your point changed to 'our workers work longer hours', which is crap'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '...which is everything'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'monetary stimulus != fiscal stimulus'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'QEs aside'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's the effect of successful stimulus. Average hours per working age person doesn't drop, or quickly recovers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think all bets are off, they've pulled all the levers'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the low interest rate isn't really helping, either'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'total hours worked/total people of working age is pretty much a good indication of how well fiscal policy is working.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The numbers are off'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Unemployment here is huge'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'low interest rates are meant to promote investment...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'that's the point of inflation. once you get to lower bound/zirp, you can't increase demand except by telling people that their money is losing value'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, real terms inflation here is somewhere between 8 and 15%'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by the pre-1980 measure'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if that were truly so, you'd see prices doubt every 5-10 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it's not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, that's about right'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err... double'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'i think the inflation issue gets sc'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'obscured'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it hasn't been 8-15% for 10 years, but it's at that right now'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'you don't really know where the credit/money is going, so you don't know where prices will jump'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. I haven't seen that much change in prices. Granted, I can only see stuff online...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'and if the money sits in reserves, you won't see much change'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and we've had poor crops here too, so food will go up more to'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'but if interest rates ever go up, that's when you start seeing inflation ramp up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, there you go, now they're trapped'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they try to use interest rates as their traditional tool for tackling inflation, it'll just fuel inflation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'right. now, they can't come out and say that they don't have an exit strategy, but of course tehy don't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'along with pushing everyone with a mortgage into default'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'political issues aside, in practical terms, if you were to take some of the stored wealth that isn't getting invested, and put it towards govt investment (infrastructure, etc.), it would do a lot of good.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or even hiring back some schoolteachers'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're planning ons pending 35bn on a stupid high speed rail link'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'lol, you're more trusting than i am. the money is just as likely to buy bombs or worse'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd do far better investing it in council housing, which would then help tackle some of the high welfare bill'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'when the government is controlled by corporations, you really can't expect that they're going to be good stewards of your money'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't seem to get how interest rates work... when interest rates rise, there's an additional incentive to buy bonds. That'll reduce inflationary pressures.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'all theory'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'yes, but as interest rates go up, the reserves from the previous pumping get sent into circulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and people will save rather than spend, and it'll impact the housing market'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'that's when you see honest to god price inflation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'these aren't levers that only affect one thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'what's disturbing to me is that krugman and other people that believe in the same religion openly say saving is the enemy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'and that we have to discourage savings'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'ignoring the reality that savings are the prerequisite to production'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's seriously wack'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'uhh... you do know that they raise interest rates by withdrawing monetary stimulus, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you know, doing the exact opposite of what they did to lower interest rates in the first place?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You talking about theory, or reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can't extrapolate Singapore's model over the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'sure, that's true, but if the stimulus was there to prop up demand, how is taking out the props going to help?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'like...ever?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that's only going to be done when the economy recovers, of course'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'and that's the joke'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and inflation isn't going to go up unless the economy recovers'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'the recovery isn't coming, so the intersting rate isn't going to go up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Inflation goes up from QE'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'effective inflation is already here due to currency devaluation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if there's no recovery, we aren't going to worry about inflation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'i just wonder how long we'll do this japan style low growth, kicking the can along strategy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a simple application of a large stimulus would solve the problem...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would it solve the problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all it would take is a stimulus of 5% of gdp for a few years...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because it raises aggregate demand'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'there will debate it's easy to say that when no matter how big the stimlus is, you can say "oh, nvm, things were worse than we thought, it needed to be much better"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and devalues every items that's there already'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you see, businesses invest only when people are buying their stuff...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this -appears- to be the complete antithesis of sound policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'everyone gets that. it's the same keynesian argument that's been made, and i thought that the 1970s would have proven it wrong for good, but apparently not'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when demand is lower than capacity, obviously on aggregate there isn't going to be much expansion in the private sector'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'ultimately the thing preventing full or optimal growth is these banking-fueled booms. housing bubble is only one example.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'stimulus has worked for all the countries in my region ex-japan every time it has been tried...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hasn't worked here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'student loans are a great example - a bunch of credit getting dumped into bad areas, and it's contributing to structural unemployment'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'we have to end that credit cycle somehow'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've got other ingrained problems, such as the entitlement culture'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that stimulus is expansionary and austerity is contractionary is an unbreakable economic law in any nation with even a vaguely capitalist system'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It'll only end when the fiat money's used as wallpaper and people riot'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're in danger (like the US) of being a bought-democracy, like Venezuela'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sonshi, textbook theory is great and all, but it's not how the U.S. works'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's how the world works'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The culture is predatory lending and short selling'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Here'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you'll need better regulation for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Big Daddy Gummint puts a dollar on a string, you pocket it for a bit, then he tugs it, along with all your other fiat cash, out'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and there's nothing wrong with short selling per se'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to claw money together for a deposit for a property right now, trouble is the cash is devaluing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not helpful'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, it's pretty useful to the economy, as long as it isn't used as part of illegitimate practices, like market manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Oh, like Barclays?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally, when you borrow to hire people, that adds to the economy, and stimulates demand.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, even if you hired people to dig holes in the ground, you've increased the amount of demand for people who dig holes in the ground'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'so hire everyone to dig holes and fill them up. problem solved.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a communist cornucopia'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the key is to push the demand in good areas, or at least not distort the structure of demand'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, hiring people to dig holes and fill them up would certainly restore health to the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it would be better to hire teachers instead. Or build stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can agree with that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the required amount of stimulus doesn't even need to be large, if the govt has enough guts'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you would be good enough to tell governments to stop printing money and then just giving it to bankers then'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they can credibly promise to support aggregate demand under any circumstance, the private sector will do most of the work'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, see, when the politicians aren't doing their job, the central bankers have to do something'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the central bankers are in it for themselves, more likely'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the guys in charge of monetary policy can't go to congress/parliament and tell them "hey, give us more fiscal stimulus"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'ben bernanke, i think, knows that there isn't a way out'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in a depressed economy, when the govt isn't doing anything, they can only engage in trying to pump more cash into the economy...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'the fed is a one trick pony.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a road unwilling to be traveled does not mean there is no road.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they aren't allowed to do anything else...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'what else should they do, even if allowed? literally drop money from helicopters?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our monetary authority (central bank) doesn't do that, because they know our govt will predictably (almost mechanically) take the required steps, so there's often no need to engage in monetary expansion'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why our dollar has strengthened several-fold against the USD and GBP over the last few decades'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'do nothing and let the market regulate itself.  Even if that means a whole lot of people get hurt in the process.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'over 4-fold vs the GBP!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i just want government off my back, we're in serious police state territory'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll do my own thing, and if they want to go bankrupt, then all power to them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'only an eeefil terrorist would say that sort of thing!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they aren't allowed to storm congress and force them to take the money and hire teachers, for example'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depressing, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'as if more government teachers would really address the core problems of our society.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do realise that if govt gets completely off your backs, you'll be under new management shortly...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'if the people are willing to be ruled, they will be rul.ed'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'if not, then not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if not, then they're invade, arrested, or otherwise persecuted'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'maybe in the UK. in the u.s. we have guns.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why Obama is coming after them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and why you have a more draconian surveillance state'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sounds like conspiracy, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'not that guns would stop a nuclear armageddon or something of that nature, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are many peoples in humanity's long and storied history that refused to be ruled, that would only accept liberty or death.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're all dead now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And you have a lot to thank for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'the lesson there isn't "give up and prepare to get raped by the state"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the lesson is, there's a certain balance'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i believe if enough people can be woken up, you'll get one or two states taking things back with Nullification'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but if Obama is in, I fear he might try and remove states powers'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's probably what the 1.6bn bullets are for'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we've given up, say, our liberty to invade our neighbour's home and beat them up because we believe that they stole our tv one night...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'More like we put the tv in their house, said "you stole my TV", then beat them up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'you never have "liberty" to hurt or stea from someone else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'my liberty ends where yours begins'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pretty much'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, xei, why do left-leaning people always misrepresent the constitution?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'couldn't be the nearly 10 years of shooting down Aladdin and his 40 knights of Al-Qaeda.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but everyone thinks their liberty extends further than the next guy thinks it should...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Al-Qaeda is a planted TV'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'to follow the analogy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because they want the constitution abolished and replaced with a Marxist document.  Such a move would benefit the rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the constitution, and the magna carta it was based upon, is pretty clear'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'not sure. i like lysander spooner's take on the constitution: "but whether the constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it."'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'in other words, the constitution hasn't done much to prevent sociopaths from taking over.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people got sloppy'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it gets eroded'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'and it won't stop them now. only people can.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then it gets eroded a bit more, and a bit more, and a bit more, and then before you know it, it's destroyed'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's how people like Hitler get into power'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'without making an effort to understand the issue, how can the average voter be surprised?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not that they don't make an effort'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's buried'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you should see how hitler got in power...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'By denialists like you'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wasn't by any erosive process at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"Oh, that's conspiracy!" there's no way that could happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Finally: Poland's invading!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poland was quite late on'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it happened fairly quickly'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'haha, right. it's only a conspiracy until it becomes history.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it was fairly obvious at the time too'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I mean, have you read his speeches? Can't compare that to stuff today'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'basic Obama posturing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i dunno, some of ROmney's crazy warmongering comes close'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even romney isn't close...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'God Bless America?  No!  God Fuck America!  The chickens have come home to roost!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but who knows what he's saying in private, I suppose...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would be quite happy if Russia were to grow a pair of testicles and stand up to the USA right nwo'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts wants another cold war'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why?  They already like where they're at.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the lies and crap surrounding Syria and Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why would they bother, given how the US stands a good chance of electing romney?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why expend political capital when you can just give enough rope?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess sio'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so*'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't help them in the long term though'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if romney gets elected, unless he flip-flops to a moderate position, he's going to go for austerity...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'good thing the president decides the budget'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'He has a pre-written script; the talk now is for the election show'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and in the current precarious situation, Spain's current situation would be a good example of what might happen...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why is this difficult to understand'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What they say they do now is simply to garner votes to ostensibly be put in office; once in office, they follow a script'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have saudi arabia, qatar, with Nato help sending in arms and terrorists into Syria via Turkey'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, congress is likely to be republican, so he'll just have to not veto their austerity bills...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have US troops on the Jordan border'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'but dosset is right. once they're elected, they do what they're told.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The bi-partisan politics is a puppet show to keep the true power, the citizens, suppressed and busy fighting itself'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'look at obama - was relatively anti-war, anti marijuana crackdown, gets elected, does the opposite'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They want us to fight ourselves!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'what changed?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'whereas obama will likely veto anything that looks too crazy, that cuts too many things.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's the Hope and Change effect, Doss.  Everyone know (insert politician's name) is a lying sack of shit out to get them, but they have to believe the guy they chose has their best interests in mind.  They cannot think otherwise, as that would force them to confront exactly how dumb and out of touch they are with the world at large.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'how did a guy that was pro-civil liberties become an emey to civil liberties.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obama's a bit cowardly though... caves too much to the republicans. But isn't actually as bad as them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he is, and how'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What I don't get Hanslanda, is how some people can subvert their own values and just "vote for the lesser of the two, cuz it's better, right?"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never vote for the lesser of two evils'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That attitude is dangerous, and engenders complacence and acquiescent servitude'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People don't have the willpower to reject the system, for fear of ostracization'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because if you don't vote for the lesser evil, that tells them that they can keep giving you greater evils'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not voting for one of the evils makes you an extremist, according to police briefing notes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm sure battered women know why.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cut off one digit, or one finger? Don't care? Okay, how about your hand? Still fine? Okay, your arm then...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i couldn't tell you which of the two would be the lesser of two evils anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I can... at least economically...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think the economic argument is the weakest'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and I would also note that countries that do better economically tend to strengthen their democracies, while those that do badly sometimes turn dictatorial...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No. The answer is "I reject the system that feeds me poison or poison, or makes me cut either digit or limb"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People have been bound into a willful servitude'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'pfft!  You're such a lightweight, Sonshi.  Cutting, indeed!  The pain of amputation is sudden and quite static.  It won't matter how much meat you carve off the victim if they already don't care.  If murder's not yet an option, the best way to get a result is to change your method of torture.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'strong democracy isn't necessarily good for people'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They care too much about hedonic pursuits than their own liberty...to pursue hedonic pursuits.  Quel paradox'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, let's face it. They have full power over you, and if you fail to recognise that you can push them to play nice after several tries... then they'll take an arm and a leg.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't have full power; we outnumber them, which is why they're so busy keeping us infighting'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why you need a constitution and need to cherish and protect it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We could string them up in the trees, but we're too large and disorganized'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'like, say, trading in your knife/ax/machete for a meat grinder.  A slow and extremely painful removal of a non-essential body part is far worse than a quick chop.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you guys were willing to go that far to change things, you would have already changed the democratic process in your favour'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'we are'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's called education'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it'll take an utter collapse or disaster to shake people out of their zombie state'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'education leads to dictatorships.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the fact that nothing has been done to push them to do substantially better means that you don't really have the power to resist them'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think we do as yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'the internet is a gamechanger.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but there is a growing movement'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i don't think it'll be big or fast enough to turn the tide, things -will- go bad first'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'the other part of the equation is generational change, though. it won't be quick. the educated people need to have kids and educate them as well'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'not sure if we can do that faster than the ignorant people can pump out kids though'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you can't even form a party that can win elections, or reform the electoral system, or force them to recognise certain policies, you're too disorganised to use force anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'r-selection is backed by Bid Daddy G'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly why i think it will require a collapse to wake people up on a mass scale'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you have the organisation to use force, you might as well do it peacefully'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if people start to use force, you can forget about democracy for the next generation, because the strongest faction will rule'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People are too stupid for democracy to work'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt force will be wanted'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'east asia disagrees!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People = U.S. citizens'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'on the macro level'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our democracies ex-china, are pretty okay'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'if the peopsc'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'get more education!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'education is run by the establishment'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh wait, the republicans are firing teachers. Oh well, carry on!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can blame the GOP for that, and the liberals for changing the content'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're both culpable'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trouble is, government mandated education is crap, it's essentially a brainwashing propaganda machine'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'government schools does not equal education'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, the liberals changing the content? To mandate teaching ID alongside evolution? And other obviously liberal stuff like that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not interested in pointless arguments like that'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'government mandated and provided education is essential to a healthy republic'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our govt education is pretty decent...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more education wouldn't help anyways.  Those who need it don't have the time required to get through it because they work fulltime in relatively low-paying jobs.  If you focus on just the children, that's a good 2 decades of effort you won't see immediate results from with plenty of immediate issues that could jeopardize that individual's education.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'i don't agree'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'it's pretty bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, for doing things like removing the Pledge of Allegiance'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Making us study animal farm and putting nineteen eighty four on our reading list was probably not an attempt to brainwash us...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'removing the requirement of an indoctrination chant? I don't see the problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not teaching the constitution is a bad idea'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'every gov class i've ever been in has talked about the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I disconnect 6 seconds after using debate...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's true, how is it possible so few people know about it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'use deb -h!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because 10 year olds remember everything they learn in class?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps it should be tought at 16 then'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or 16 year olds'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'everyone knows about it, not everyone understands it, and the historical context it was created within. My grandma thought it was some sort of divinely inspired document for eris's sake'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you can teach people, but you can't make them learn'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given how the counter staff at mcdonalds can't add, I think it's a problem with quality of education rather than content'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'it was and is taught at 16, it's in highschool government classes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Almost seems like teach them not to learn, at this point'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unfortunately, there seems to me, to be this perception among a lot of people that ignorance is actually admirable, I've met people that actually wear their ignorance with a badge of honor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a lot of "haw haw, I suck at math too"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reinforces my view then that it will require a collapse to get people to wake up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People want to do what everyone else does; ignorance is endemic to the current state'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'probably applies to knowing stuff about the law too'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The lie to you about the law here; surprise'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and then you've all these republican voters who vote against their intersts, convinced that tax cuts for the rich will trickle down to them...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and a large number of people who don't bother to vote, when they could all go to the polls and just vote a big "screw you"'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if they didn't want to vote for the lesser evil...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is incompetent inept and clueless to suggest a(nother) collapse is required to wake things up'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we haven't had a collapse'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'lol. 2008 was not a collapse'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'we had one yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xei: 'you guys have no idea what a collapse looks like'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'L.A. riots?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'greece'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it could've turned into a collapse, if the slide wasn't stalled...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'greece isn't in full collapse yet...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, but I'd say it's the closest example at the moment'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'or at least the closest one that people are probably familiar with'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but you're right, it hasn't completely collapsed yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it could though... it's been hovering on the edge of collapse'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'collapse is when the government completely loses control'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'spain is also in danger'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is there lots of hono-bashing during great depressions and collapses'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, although spain's fiscal situation is better, it's at higher risk, because it's in some sense a multinational state'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are you saying there is, or asking if there is?  If the latter, then there's really no way to tell because the gay and lesbian community was not as out in the open as it is now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless Tigernuts is hoping for the nazi brown shirts scenario again'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sexuality wouldn't be an issue here (UK) if there was ac ollapse, though ethnicity might be'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would be amusing in a black humour-ish kind of way if the same sort of situation happened in the UK with chinese vs what happened in China with the brits...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'strong christian values and the KKK became popular after the great depression ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chinese here wouldn't be affected, more likely the black and arabic/pakistani community'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Tigernuts vision: first the great collapse, then lots of unpopular minorities being bashed '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you never know though...'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'connetion is fine, but I go link-dead when I use debate...amusing'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with the republicans stating that the decadence and vices of the sex-perverts is what caused the great collapse (even if the republicans caused the collapse)'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to imagine what a collapse would look like, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of people turning on each other'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nazi germany followed a great collapse'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm secretly disconnecting you whenever you use debate. It's a conspiracy!'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'trying to figure it out'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Having gone complete apeshit, Sonshi compares Aardwolf to Iran and North Korea.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): DosseT seems to be loving Sonshi's welcome to North Korea.
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'compare Microsoft to Aardwolf  -- there are some similarities '
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite possibly, but i don't see anything else happening'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't know of any emulators that work on a phone, so either you have the original system hardware or you are using a pc/laptop/tablet with an emulator that also emulates the gameshark.  Either way, you're on the internet already and can go surfing for such codes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'bah, mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'some have built-in hex editors'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama campaign staff caught telling people it's ok to vote twice'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DHS contemplate making Electric Shock bracelets compulsory for people using airplanes'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i guess that's easier to do then getting dead people to vote for you'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same kind of fraud, essentially, voting for non-voters'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Hungry Windigo: 'be nice when this is all over so I don't have to listen to this petty shit any more'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Hungry Windigo: 'it's disgusting'
T3/r7/2012-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is the start'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'adhd drugs handed out to struggling kids in school, whether they have adhd or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all society really wants is the shut the fuck up pill'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that won't work'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tz arives with beer - Beer Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no thanks'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(Tigernuts 1, Cambodia 0, Tzadkiel 0)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'shift responsability for behaviour onto healthcare system too '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to....'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, 12 step for addicts, ritalin for ADHD, all society wants is for you to knock the shit off'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'also ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shit responsibility from what to whom?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'whatever your shit is, they don't care about how or why you are like you are, just quit causing a scene, oh will this pill make you stop?  EAT IT.  that's it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mostly parental imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the direction of travel is to the government'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Jung calls it the miracle pill cure - a panacea '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is an archetype I think - been a while since I've read any of his stuff though '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'too many douchebags seeking to shut down debate with sewer language'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'this is a curse channel, I am actually capable of not cursing however.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you aint seen nuthin Zela :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if someone is a psychiatrist, it's a good sign that they need to be ignored'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Eli Lilly calls it Prozac :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'this is not a doctoral thesis, though, so I will not make an effort to eschew whichever curse words come naturally'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'topics: why most teaching videos suck  ...  why many/some textbooks suck  ...  (why some teachers suck) ... why aardwolf debate sucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well healthcare is government ? usually - is it the vehicle for travel iyo ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were talking about responsibility, not provider'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo once someone is labled - parents step back and helthcare "treats" the problem - ask the parent what they are doing about it - we sent her to a shrink - it's being treated '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because government has convinced people to be naff parents'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'TV has done a better job of that - glorifies arrested development and we end up with kidults breeding ..'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't use tv to propagandise people?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'immature people buy more useless shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they do - you are right imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and society runs on that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nods - consumer culture propped up by governemnt to assist with stability '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'built on a growth model - bloody crazy '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there Zela I swore :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they aren't going to exactly stunt your emotional growth but they sure aren't going to encourage it, unless it helps them'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh she already ignored me'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and it does - buy more be more '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'if somebody is regularly using bad language, that is a valid reason to ignore them and their bad lamguage  ( and shoot to kill if they are dangerous )'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and NOW ! no delayment of gratification required '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's, like, your fucking opinion, man'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'which brings us back to the pills  - why wade through months of tough therapy when I can get fixed NOW with a pill '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the NOW pill doesn't actually fix you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially if there was nothing wrong with you in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'We know that - it may shut you up and make you socially acceptable though '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'psychiatrists are expensive parasites, and ritalin is cheaper'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '" but i can't concentrate " ! no - yeah look at your activities and try and not overstimulate with the Xbox and you might slow down n focus - just take this pill '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'oo goody a devils advocate !'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'there are those that go braindead playing muds'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'true though drugs are cheaper ... still don't fix the problem long term though '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'drugs are meant to start the problem, to support the insurance/Big Pharm complex'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'if you are addicted to playing muds, you are less likely to be out on the streets comminting sexcrimes'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, like the flu vaccines that pharma makes a fortune out of, governments push, but offer little to no protection against the flu'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and SSRi'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol Zoloft - crazy stuff there !'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'been there, done that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'and since mud addicts are poor on personal hygeine, they are less likely to find a mate and breed'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'they want a dumbed-down pharmacologically-dependent society; don't take my word for it, listen to theirs'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'often wondered about uing an MOI to lengthen the high associated with extacy though '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an old and probably incorrect stereotype'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'controllable, is what they want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'predictable '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, but they make people control themselves, so they don't have to monitor'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'by religion, by law, by pills, by drugs, by propaganda, controllable sure is easier to guarantee stability on than not controllable'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'predictable, sure'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Micromanagement is a chore, so they use media to dictate what is normality, and move everyone to that mold'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if media works they'll use it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so people self-medicate out of fear of not being normal'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the people that run society, their main fear is instability and unpredictability'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only need to take a look at that police manual they gave out that listed people who didn't agree with mainstream ideology as terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'your ego is used against you; create a structure where you are abnormal, and you will self-correct and police yourself'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people with "leave the UN" stickers are potential terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would there be an advertising sector if it didn't work - but imo nowdays the power is with the corperations increasingly - notgovernment '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they need to not only sell stability to keep their jobs, but if they are noble and do it for the good of the people, they have the same interests really'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'some of the kiddie cartoons and movies are brainwashing a new generation of criminally-minded misfits'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, kids cartoons are usually about world government'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Absolutely, Zela'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so anything that looks like it is going to buck wild and screw up an order of things that works, they will try and quash it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Funny thing is, go youtube some of the old cartoons from the 80s, and you'll be surprised what you'll notice now'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That never struck you as abnormal as a kid'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'bottom line, they will quash it in the way that keeps it quiet and manageable, and nowadays a gun is not how you do that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I grew upp on pokemon :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the dollar is the sword '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so media, pills, whatever, whatever works they will use, hell, if Justin Bieber could control the population on that level, they would be controlling him, guaranteed'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the use of Elvis is documented fact .. it goes back at least that far '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'abby hoffman tried to fuck with the machine and they got on him, for sure'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'abby hoffman ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'he is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'celebrity culture are puppets used to sell worthless goods to the masses'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'really its not good or evil, it's just a system that is stable and works, is what they want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if "they" use it, it's cool, and then you buy it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Pokemon is at least kiddie friendly and teaches cooperation and decency (and Team Rocket usually fails in their evil)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'culture jamming ? works ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'try Bobby Driscoll, the first MK Ultra'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yup, he's Disney'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'one that they can manage into a stable state, that they can control now and for the future, for our good ostensibly (and actually), and for their wallets'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Jesse is a hotty too - still watch sometimes nowdays :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'just like Britney Spears, Timberlake, Aguilera, and the new generation Selena Gomez'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Daffy Duck is an extremely bad role-model'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do not have our best interests in mind'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if they think they do'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they will pretend like the financial benefits are just side meat but it is the whole meal'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Cambodia, you know MKUltra, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yeah, the military program that aimed for mind control'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'program developed by the Nazis - all the information was absorbed by the Allies prior to occupation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the idol/reality singing shows taking all the indy talent and signing it up before it can start trouble '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not just "military" - it's a Nazi program'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but you see, tzad, they don't even have to control it like that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We gave Mengele aid, changes his name, he perfected it; now they use it to make super-soldiers like Project Camelot, and main-stream celebrities'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all they have to do is own the one outlet that matters, and control who gets to be there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and everyone else can say what they want, and they won't be heard in such a way that it will threaten anything important'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'stability'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep true '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'George Bush's family funded a lot of the Nazi Eugenics program'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'along with the Rockefellers and Kissengers'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's easy to fund things when you have a "bad guy" for the public's eye'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you can do experiments you could never get away with'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no doubt'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are a lot of cynical and ugly things that are true about reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and they are all useful'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol nature is beautiful - and cruel - economic sis the same imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and the people in charge, they know all of them, and if a new one is invented they are right on top of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Wardenclyffe?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tesla discovered unlimited free energy 100 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ward? that ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is their job, to own the roots of the cynical and undeniable currents of reality, and to control and manipulate them'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, it's nonsense, Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the thing is that their ends aren't as maleficent as you think'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Read about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'TEsla did no such thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tesla was a genius'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have, i'm a physicist'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they just want to keep things running smooth, like I said'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'laws of thermodynamics'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you think along those lines, you can understand a lot of why 'they' do what they do'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tesla was about to win the radio broadcast race, Zela'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Tigernuts, you're delusional as DosseT if you think facts will stop him.  Facts are a government conspiracy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'think like a parasite and a host'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'JP Morgan pulled his funding, and the Pinkertons destroyed his research'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Marconi is credited with the victory'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why? There's no money in unlimited free energy'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all the parasite needs is for the host to be healthy, alive, and not emotionally invested in getting rid of the parasite'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Jhav, you can participate once you've learned about Wardenclyffe'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then there will be plenty of blood to suck, everyone is happy, why upset a system that works, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Narconi was a fraud'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Marconi was a fraud'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Edison was a fraud as well'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what is the cure then - mass culture ? terrorism ? culture jamming ? is there one ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'education about suppressed knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'sure, the host would be more naturally happy and healthy without a parasite, but thats not the point.  The point is, the parasite is there, shit is fine, why are you even trying to shake the parasite in the first place, you've been OK this whole time, so just chill out and let it suck your blood, after all, there's plenty of it and everyone needs to eat'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not through gov controlled schools though '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's it, in a nutshell sort of'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the government isn't an altruistic arbitor maintaining balance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're withholding benefits to the public welfare in favor of giving themselves money and power'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why give the world free energy, when I can control the sole source?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, you see, at a fine enough level, cynicism turns into altruism in a practical sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"The Invisible Hand"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they need funds to get elected ... keep buisness happy and get funding - get elected - is why I said the power has shifted to buisiness now imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'business is squelched - if you're the small guy, you get economically gangstered and regulated out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'even if they were entirely self serving, they would have to, at some point, learn how to act altruistic in order to continue, and the pressure of the act, which is part of the basic necessity of a government, makes them be altruistic to a dependable degree, even if their intentions are nothing of the sort'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the "private" sector is also the public sector regulators'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is in a perfect system though cambodia'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is why the whole concept of objectivism falls on its face'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I don't believe that the government could actually get anywhere close to our paranoid fears without encountering serious trouble'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no absolutes in reality ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, if they stepped morally on the wrong side hard enough, there could be a day where police really were just dudes in blue suits, and the populace would uprise, it would be chaos, but I believe that there is enough moral fiber in ordinary people that serious breaches of the social contract would not be countenanced'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LA riots are an example ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is sort of a tenet that I have, that the mostly invisible moral fiber of humanity is a positive thing, overall, and that you can count on it in the 'equation' as a force that won't allow gross misconduct by a government'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or london riots - prob not london imo'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'for certain, I believe, not in the United States'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the third world is a different story'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'surival ranks alturism in higher order mammals '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anyway, the game of the government is to just turn up the heat a degree at a time until we are cooked like the proverbial frog'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unpack that Camby ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you do not know about a frog?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'legend has it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that if you put a frog in boiling water, it will try to get out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but if you put it in lukewarm water, and very very slowly turn up the heat, you can eventually cook the frog and he wont know'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because he cannot compare his previous heat to his present situation enough so that he can know he is boiling, you make the relative change gradual enough and he will stew himself, happily'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ahh aclimatization yep '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'unto death'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they do that before big concerts - gently crank up the sound through the day so residents wont complain about the show that night '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's not even that - we've become self-medicating'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'It's a good legend, but to be clear in case you were planning on frog for dinner: this legend is bullshit. If you put a frog in water and start cooking it it will attempt to escape.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'for fear of sticking out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is why I precluded that story with 'legend has it', atoam :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'Fair enough, I just don't want any delicious frogs escaping'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'mostly it is a metaphor for people more than frogs'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I'm not afraid to stick out :D just need to get it functional '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'cultural hegemony - use TV, movies, songs, and celebrity culture to dictate what's normal'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'program society, then they become self-enforcing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so we need signs in "frog" to tell him to get out then '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well the hot tub is nice, why should I get out?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'better in the long run '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it reminds me of the joke that comedians like to make about the Matrix movie'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'cracked.com, at least'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that you wake up from a fantasy world that caters to your needs and keeps you safe and happy feeling, into a harsh, warlike reality where you get to live either on e dingy metal ship or a sweaty city built into a cavern'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'well, would you want to live on your knees, or die on your feet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reality is a big different to the control grid'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's a preference'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'interesting twist that the bad guy from the first movie was a red-pill human who wanted to return to the Matrix'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the second option is freedom, literally, but if you had absolute freedom between the first and second options, how many people would rather just, in their freedom to choose their own life, choose one that was nice and comfy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'freedom entails leaving the Matrix'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '95% choose the red pill now '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'are you a leader, or a follower? What is your substance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, it would be better to know than not know, but then once you know, maybe you wouldn't mind going back to the Matrix, at least if you are going to eat something fake, its a tasty fake'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'there are both, so there's not a wrong answer'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Maslow - 1 in 20 are alphas '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I am not saying that fighting for reality is not worthwhile, just elaborating on what kind of choice you have to make if you really want it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we dont even have a Matrix now and that choice is still relevant'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep - but the idea has hit pop culture - so a frog sign would be a T-shirt with "Take the Blue  pill!" on it ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, here's the thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the blue pill seems like a more real and thrilling choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but the red pill is safer, more comfortable, and easily way tastier'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you are only addicted to the thrill of it, you'd pick blue and then wish you'd have picked red'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you are a true blood moral soldier fighting for the truth, you'd take the blue one and eat the consequences'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'using the metaphor - if you were going to take the blue pil you already have '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but what most people want, even those who think they understand the movie, is kung fu powers without the responsibility, but if you figure kung fu and responsibility into it, most people would really rather just look awesome, eat good food, and not have to worry about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'win the lottery and not pay taxes, so to speak'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is called homeostasis '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, being a real live hero *looks* way awesomer than it actually is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you'd really rather wish you were a hero than actually be one'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'comfortable - neds met - boxes ticked - or you have already taken the blue pill '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm a hero '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if they sound the clarion call I will answer'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but at this point I don't get up unless they are sounding the real alarm'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the drill sergeant can fuck himself if he wants to torture me with drills, that is sort of where I am at on this whole thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when the student is ready the master will appear ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'not sure which pill is which '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, I stay in my seat for a fire drill, if I am reading a good book, but if the building is burning I am there to help'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is what I mean, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '" or you take the blue pill and find out how deep the rabbit hole goes" '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the rabbit hole goes infinitely far in infinitely many directions, and there are infinitely many ways to get lost, each one infinitely fascinating'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I know how far the rabbit hole goes, I don't give a shit now really about it, because I know that everything is there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the red pill is the truth, the exit'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the blue pill is the status quo, the dream'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you do realise this is the beginings of a terrorist movement .. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'everything is sinusoidal'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's odd, can can a dream be the status quo?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the first world is not latin america'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how can*'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it can, anaristos, actually'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'anarchy, order, government, totalitarianism, sedition, anarchy'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if enough people dream it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Well, here's a dream'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'It cannot. A dream is what isn't, so it can't be the status quo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'go to school, get $150k in debt, don't get a job, then live off the taxpayers'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a dream is what our minds want to see'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if enough minds want to see something, it will manifest'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've been telling you that the police via anyone who doesn't conform to social norms as a terrorst'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'whatever a dream is, it is not the now, which is the status quo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people who use facebook are terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the status quo is the dream'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'reality is subjective - subject to the individual experiencing it '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if only from a person who can read that intention and fill the void'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people who DONT use facebook are terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, then you are misusing "status quo", the now is the status quo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'Jim Morrison was the dream of the status quo at the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I stay the hell away from facebook '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'status quo from a subjective view, or omniscient?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they all dreamt of the 'psychedelic' trip, and he gave them what they wanted, what they dreamed of and more'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'take the Matrix: if you're in the Matrix, the status quo is a cushy life.  The reality is you're living in a pod having your life-force feeding machines'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is what I mean, on a certain scale, the collective desire of humanity can be read, and fulfilled'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are adding meaning where there is no meaning, status quo, by definition, is the now, so it can't be a dream.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'carlos castenada'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'status quo on the omniscient scale is you're a mind slave; from a personal point of view, you're in the Matrix and don't know any better'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, and what the now is is partly a dream'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, a peyote addict as a reference, that's good :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'collective dreams are part of what drives us'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: '1.  you don't get addicted to peyote'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'did a british upperclass twit accuse a large percentage of the populace of being terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: '2.  his success and career kind of speak for themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'status quo is relative'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'vision quest :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe so, but a dream is a target, the status quo is the point of departure not the destination.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Plato's allegory of the cave, for instance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Zela, American intelligence/police'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ok that I will grant'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all I am saying, is that right now, is the departure and the destination simultaneously'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I wondred when the cave would come out :P I mentioned it 2 nights ago '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and part of that is a dream, and the people now who are successful are successful because we dream of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://publicintelligence.net/slatt-terrorism-training/'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and they know our dreams.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they programmed them in part imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'they tell us what the dream is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'seriously what is the difference between Lady Gaga being a skinny bitch wearing bacon, and being an international idol?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because we WANT her'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'which douchebag republican american said that facebook was mandatory usage to avoid being a terrorist'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'they use celebrity culture to promote bling/hedonic culture, so we subscribe to it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'our wants make her have power, she knows it, she uses it, if we didn't care then we wouldn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'then we willingly subject ourselves to the fiat system, because we want to act as they'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No different from mommy eating a spoon so baby imitates'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'reading the collective dream, appropriating the symbols, and giving the people what they dream of, in the most cynical sense at the *very* least, is a way of power'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'to use Jim Morrison again, if he were here now, we wouldn't care, we did then, we don't know, because then he was part of the dream, and now he is not'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Hitler used just that technique imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Lady Gaga is a sell-out to the music industry'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'he did tzad'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'anybody that uses facebook regularly is likely to be a mental-retard eventually'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You sell your soul to satan, you get a record-deal'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I know a lil about Hitler :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't do it? Then next in line will'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'while he filled that space in an evil way, he filled it, he read it, he understood it, and he used it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is all the idol stuff - music industry sucking out new talent now P2P music sharing has dulled profits '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is what powerful people do, that is paychic power'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Gaga is not an independent'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'she's a willing sell-out to the system'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no psycic power is more than that - imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that uses here as a dress-up doll to sell ideology'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'her'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'look guys, it's simple'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we want to go to lunch, where do we go?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'God dislikes crappy digital sounds -- so the Apocalypse and Armeggedon is coming'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lunchbox ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I know you are thinking of burgers, and I know the best burger joint, at least, the place that you will love the most'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so I suggest where to go'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and you listen'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do you need to 'go somewhere' for lunch?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'what if I don't listen?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'an example, man'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah I get the example '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I get what you want, you will listen'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no matter what'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like all the people on welfare?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the subtext is that I am not resourceful enough to procure that which I want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obamaphone?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'implying I don't have enough character; I must use that of Lady Gaga's'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'which, ironically, happens to apply to a vast majority'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the thing is, if I read your wants you will listen to what I say'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So I am void of choice; other people are proxy for my choice? Sounds like slave/sheep mentality'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the 95% are not functional enough to prepare for a meal away from home '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is power'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'But I can act on my own wants; where do you come into play?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'now if you want a burger, and I want a burger, let's go'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I fit into your act'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'but I don't need your input'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well you know the best place, let's say'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, it seems that more builders are leaning toward the epic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but seriously man, I've been there and you NEED to try here'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I know, I know, that place is good, the one you know, I love it too, but I tried this place and seriously, man, you've never even imagined a burger like this'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and it's cheaper than your lunchbox lunch too ..'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all I need to do is realize that idea in your mind richly enough, not hard enough, but richly enough, so that you will know that I know a place that is better than yours'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that sounds more like a suggestion, and my accepting it; my choice to be influenced, not your leading me'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I still have free will'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then you say, where is it?  then you are mine'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I could say "nah man, that place is no good, I'm going somewhere else"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have no free will, government outlawed it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, but you make the choice based on what you want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you could if you were paranoid and smelled some sort of coercion trap'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but that is a pretty elementary level for people who really manipulate minds'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that sounds like misperception on your part; that I acquiesced to your suggestion simply because I went along'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'when in reality I simply explored a new avenue'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'misperception'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is what it looks like to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and if you resist - there is a dollar incentive - is cheaper to eat cra p at Maccas than to bring your own good stuff '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'let me say this'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anyone who successfully manipulates you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it never looks like you were manipulated, to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if it does, they failed'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't perceive that as manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'EXACTLY'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so here I am thinking I'll try a new place, and here you are thinking you influenced me to go'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's not manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'but DosseT, did you obtain a decent science education -- some of what you said earlier casts doubt'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a good con artist does not look like a con artist'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'manipulation would be "I'm going to this place" and you dissuade me out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'it was your own "good" idea - reenforced by the party providing the reenforcement :D lol 101'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they look like a cool guy, an awesome person you met who knows where the good spots are'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then later on you have to piece it together, if they came up and you thought, "con artist", then they are not one'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's simply that the outcome of our two decisions aligned; though they are independent'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and everyone thinks, that is what a con artist looks like (seeing one)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'there's no inception involved; what if I planned to go to that place before you even broached the subject?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so here you are thinking you manipulated me, whereas I have deceived you into thinking you influenced me'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and now who deceived who?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'planned influenced by advertising - still coincidence ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'an inadequate flawed education + "freewill" is a bad combination'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I wouldn't call that manipulation; a successful manipulation would be a dissuasion, not a persuasion'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'as a persuasion can't be guaranteed as a direct cause of action'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a successful manipulation is whatever gets another person to do what you want them to do'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but still influences thought imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you are deluding yourself into thinking the action of my going was caused by you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it may, or may not have, but YOU can't tell from your standpoint'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is KitKat using TSA paedobear in their advertising?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'how it looks to them, doesn't matter, if what they want is not far off from what you want, then there is not much bending involved, otherwise more, but in the end, they feel like they did what they wanted ,but they did what you wanted'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's a 2-stage game with incomplete information'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yet there are ways to bend the currents of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you are actually setting yourself up for failure; you've convinced yourself that the mark is pliable'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I can telegraph your action and play your game'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'here is the only important part'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'when you get manipulated, you never know it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you think I am being deceived, while I take you for a ride'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that counts for me and you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, that game can go on for levels ans levels'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and only at the end will either of us know who won or lost, that is like spy wars'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not really; there are a finite number of ends to the 2-stage game with incomplete'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but that is the real game of manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you are not the common man mate - we are talking lowest common denominitor here '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no seriously'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'all it sounds to me is your convincing to yourself that you're influencing someone simply because their action aligned to what you hoped to achieve'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'people who think that con artists look like con artists are very wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'confirmation bias'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's the whole point of manipulation though'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'manipulation means you had a hand at the output'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it doesn't matter if you did it because I made you or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all that matters is that you do what I want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it doesn't matter why'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is how you manipulate'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you convinced yourself I did it because you influenced me simply because it appears so'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'confirmation bias'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no but your point here is who actually *made* someone do something'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'my point is who does what'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government trying to claim that the Smokey Mountains are smokey because of smog pollution that will kill you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and if you were already doing what I wanted without input, I wouldn't do a thing and you would be part of my plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'well, there are two instances: one in which you have a pliable target you influenced, and one which already had intent'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is manipulation, just making it work how you want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if I was already meeting someone at the new joint, you had no input'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'but would convince yourself you did simply because my action parallels your desired outcome'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but if my goal was for you to be there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'your goal was achieved with 0 input from you - you didn't influence anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it doesn't even matter if you think I did or didn't 'manipulate' you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the amount of my influence is not important'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the outcome is what I am going after'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'guys - feedback loop ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'manipulation requires input - otherwise it's called happenstance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and the less effort I make to make it happen, the more efficient the plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'your interest here is to be the person that is not manipulated'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and I am telling you, that is not even relevant to a manipulator'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you'll have convinced yourself you had an input regardless of the outcome'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'swap roles in the role play and run simulation again ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'my input doesnt matter, unless it helps the plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's not an ego thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'try my idea ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if someone's move coincided with what you want, that's called getting lucky'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I want this, you have to do this so I can get this, if I can do nothing and you do it, then it's good'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fuck the labels man'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'its way more essential'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'yea, you lucked out - you didn't influence or coerce me to do it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fine then'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'things panned out as you had hoped'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'as long as you do what I want you to do, regardless of anything that I do that may or may not make you act that way'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then I succeeded'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and what you think about what I did or did not do does not matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'course it does; I can telegraph and feign ignorance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'run simulation again - roles reversed - remove some subjective bias ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's Game Theory'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'frankly, if I were a manipulator, I'd rather just not exist at all to you at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yeah right, but you have to be aware that there is a game going on first'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which I do not want you to know'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'everything with two or more parties is a game'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no party no game'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'Id rather have no parties, no game, no manipulation, and no plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'damn I must be MPD - I play games with myself all the time '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'any time there are two parties, there's a game'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I'd rather just ask you if you have a buck to help with the parking meter'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prisoner's Dilemma, matching pennies, centipede, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and then use that dollar to make a phone call to someone that mattered'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if I give you one, it's not because you willed me to'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'thats what I said ages ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a good manipulator, you are not even on your guard like this'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'one upmanship and deb ... not cool mate '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that's not manipulation, it's lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'manipulation is influencing and changing behavior'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'dude'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I wasn't going to give you one, now I am'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not: I gave you one for an ostensible reason, which you used for another'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'every single thing you can possibly do can be manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'including nothing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you cannot be paranoid enough to guard against it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'problem with over-thinking it is now you've become a causal impetus for everything'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if I go outside, the sky is blue because I guessed it was'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but if you underthink it you are still vulnerable'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a fair witness never guesses :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'overthinking it can be used against you, and so can underthinking it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the truth is, you will be manipulated'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'take Game Theory if you haven't - cool ideas there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you might as well choose your principles such that (For example), if you were manipulated into helping a child, and it furthered someone else's goal, you might as well be damned for helping a child, and you can't control it all, so you choose it like that and you just can't be perfect'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'game theory isnt the question'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the question is, when is the game being played?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I consider manipulation requiring a direct hand'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not what do you know, but when is it applicable?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you're considering aligning of incentives to be manipulation regardless of whether you had input'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I am'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'reciprocity and alturism are hardwired into humans - manipulation begins at the biological level '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'manipulate seems to be a transitive verb'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I am considering that a manipulator has an objective sequence of actions that they want to see'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and any action that they take, direct or indirect, personal or impersonal, etc., that will help that sequence occur, is manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anything, ANYTHING at all that works is fair game'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so a hamster in a ball is manipulating you when you give it its daily pellet at 2 P.M.?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'seems a bit farfetched and broad'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, the joke about how your dog walks you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's more about the dog bothering you or shitting on the carpet if you don't walk it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'existentially speaking, no. The pellet is given by choice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or you being bothered by the carpet being shat upon'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia nods at SnailBot Anaristos.
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'negative reenforcement - more likely to get rid of the dog ? - I don't like dogs - they are like humans '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that's simply comparing incentives, and acting on the higher of the two'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I derive -2 utility from be-shat carpet, and -1 from taking time to walk'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you are drawing a line here between manipulation and natural action'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I made an executive decision'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'when manipulators, truly, work with the tendencies of natural action'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so that you act as you want, and as they want'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'too broad'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I say you are too narrow but I am amiable to agree to disagree'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'who manipulates whom then? The N2/C2/O2, or your lungs?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'good question there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol claps !'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is actually very close to the crux of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I thought this required theory of mind'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if there is not enough air in your lungs, they will want to move'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I fuck with your lungs, they will move'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I remove your air, they will move'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I want themn to move, either option will work'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I am efficient, I will pick the easiest one'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you see?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not really'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'aww turns to threat - guys objective much ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all I want is for you to gasp for air'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'what manipulates the 2O3 <-> 3O2 ozone equilibrium, for example'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are multiple ways to make that happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you introduce other gases, it pushes an equilibrium the other direction'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'no cognitive process or agenda involved'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you're attributing motive to things for which there is none'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'nothing is off the table'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'now this is just a semantic dispute'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, as a manipulator, optimally I want to put motive into things that you think have no motive, so that you act as you think you want to, unaware of me'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I am the unseen force'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'like a black ops commando'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'never there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're a Romulan!'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the difuse was suggested a while ago with role reversal ... '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is the ultimate practice of manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you're taking credit for things for which you have none'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fuck credit'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fuck motive'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fuck what I did'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the black ops commando made the earth orbit around the sun?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or didn't :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so he could be in darkness'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, he took advantage of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or, did he wait until it was dark'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it doesnt matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so did the earth manipulate the black ops commando into having to wait?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'he used darkness where it could be found'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a shame to see minds wasted on emotions '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'to find darkness all you have to do is to extinguish the light :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia nods at SnailBot Anaristos.
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '...by telling it to rotate, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'wait until dark, or the light bulb "burnt out"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, he had to wait; it was a contingency, not a willing of mind'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sit on this axis and rotate ! ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'doesn't matter who did what or who thought what or who wanted anything, as long as there is darkness where it is needed'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and yes, if the river is flowing where you want to go, then you follow the current'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so acquiescence'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'really that is elementary, it doesn't matter which way you wanted the river to go'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if it works man'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it matters where you wanted to go, what would help you, and how you made that work'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'isn't acquiescence the opposite of your argument?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'NO'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'NO it is not'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if you can't use the river, then don't; you can't make the river reverse course (reasonably)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, you plan on walking'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but if the river is willing to help, you take it's help'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'walk on water '
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that sounds like a passive/reactionary approach to living'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that's just called resourcefulness; not manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'your opinion in that sense is irrelevant'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'using things that benefit your aims'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'YOU GOT IT'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'using things that benefit your aims'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so you are defining resourcefulness as manipulation; got it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and how to make more things benefit you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anything that helps you is manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'look, if it looks manipulative, they failed'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if all of reality seems to be going their direction, then they are probably pretty decenbt'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and the methods are infinite'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and they all look natural, like something else, and not one seems like a plan or a scheme'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is how you operate if you are smart about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you treat reality as an object when reality is really a state.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'part of it you can control'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'part of it you cannot'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you cannot manipulate reality because it is not an object, you can change the state by manipulating the objects in the system.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'people play this game though'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and win even, sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no I cannot change the laws of physics'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '2 intellegent ppl turning something intersting into a pissing contest - SSDD'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'who was it, that guy who wrote the Laws of Power?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'he kind of codified it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you guys should read Science and Sanity by Korzybski... it is an introduction to gneral semantics and non-Aristotelian systems'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I'm sure there is a lot to this subject actually'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all I am saying is that the manipulation that you spot as manipulation, is not successful manipulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the real thing, when done right, you just act naturally according to yourself, and you play into my goals, and optimally, you will never know about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, if I were trying to lie to you, and you saw me as a liar, then I am a shitty liar'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'basically that is it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if I see you as a liar, then you are not a liar because you will tell me the truth :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I know that you see me as a liar, and tell you what you think is the truth, and you believe it, then I successfully lied'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that game goes real far if you want it to'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you all have too much time on your hands'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'being here kind of presupposes that in a way :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but if I see you as a liar I will use what you tell me to determine where the truth lies :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, and that angle can be used'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I know you are a liar, so you can't lie to me, because for you to lie I must accept what you say as truth, if I accept what you say as a lie then you are no longer lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'only if you flat do not listen to a word that I say at all, knowing me as a liar, can you have a chance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'facts are facts :) So if you say that today is Tuesday, I know, because you are a liar, that it must be any day but Tuesday :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and even then, I could tell the truth, knowing that you wouldn't listen'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well, the day of the week is something that I cannot change :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if I can't tell what the truth is then I couldn't know you for a liar, so it goes without saying that I will know the truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so you can listen to me without presupposing truth or lies'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and hold the information until such time as you can verify it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'count me as a source of unknown reliability'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no comments on the Fed buying up 40bn of mortgage notes per month with invented money in order to leverage them and invest in junk derivatives so that banks will buy government bonds?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'let the facts be your guide'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the problem with lies is that at some point its container will collapse, not so with the truth. So you apply the lie to the container to see if it remains intact.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ok, now you are getting somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if it remains intact then it is the truth :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the only thing is that often, a liar only needs a temporary situation to occur, and the container can afford to be flimsy, as long as it serves for as long as it needs to'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so, I go to your house to screw your daughter, and you meet me with a shotgun, and I say something just plausible enough for me to be able to leave'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a workable lie will have to weave around the target subject, but that will cause a "hole" in the container.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, as long as you discovering the lie later is irrelevant to my needs, it becomes acceptable'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I need a minute, my lie only needs to work for maybe 2 minutes tops'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if a lie gets me from point A to point B, then it doesn't matter that it is a lie, if B was my target.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is mostly how lies are useful'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not to mar point Z, but just to suffice enough to get from A to B'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, no, lies try to make C look like B.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the collapse is being put off until as much of the world collapses as possible, so that they can bring in a global currency (SDR) as the solution'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, but a different lie can work for B and C'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'someone else, who doesn't know what I said to you, of course, if I become known as a fraud, if you tell the next person, then that is bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a lie can be useful, in a certain time and place'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am only concerned that the information doesn't mask B with C. As long as I can arrive at B, I can ignore the fact that I was being pointed to C.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but eternally, no, a lie never beats the truth'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: '"This statement is false, I'm lieing."  Well, if it's true what I'm saying then the sentence is lieing. On the other hand if it's a lie it means the sentence is true which in turn makes it a lie.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, obviously you don't like works of fiction.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'fiction i a polite word for lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well a fiction is a lie meant to entertain'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and what entertains is like, the eternal fascination and study of fiction writers'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ah, situational ethics, the ends justifies the means :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well I would say that fiction falls under ethics if I tell you one in order to affect real world consequences'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I write a story or poem that is awesome but untrue, I don't think that is ethically applicable but that is just me'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'for the sake of a good story'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not as propaganda'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you say they are meant to entertain, so you are saying that entertaining justifies lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I tell a rad story about how I was a secret agent in the year 3000 and it is a great adventure tale but totally untrue, and I sell it as a lie (fiction), then it is entertainment'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'With this untrue story, have you said "this is true" (or left it implied and not refuted)?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you are a girl, and I tell a rad story about how I am a doctor to get in your pants, then I am a liar'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I am the guy who wrote A Million Little Pieces, I am a liar (apparently)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I am Stephen King writing a horror story, I am a good fiction author (Stephen King never claims his fiction stories to be anything but fiction)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you are assuming that you succeed because you are believed, in either case.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no...the first case, I succeed if you like it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'There is a HUGE difference between writing fiction, and writing false nonfiction (as oxymoronic as that may be)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there is vak'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, it is a fact, that i've never seen him claim that it was fiction. It is assumed that it is fiction :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I agree...that is what I mean'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fiction does not have the intention of truly deceiving'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'whereas falsifying your biography or whatever, does'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or "regular" lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but an assumption does not grant truth, in fact you can lie by omission :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is true'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how did California ever go Democrat?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'which is another way to check :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'part of being truthful is guaranteeing your statement against omission'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lie by ommission is a load of crap made by courts who cannot assess given facts in a manner which befits the seeking of truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lie by ommission relies on assumption, and courts should not be assuming anything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you come to me and say "I think you killed her" and I say nothing, and you assume that I say nothing because I did kill her and I let you, I am lying by omission.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if I assume that you killed her because you said nothing, then I have also failed at finding the truth'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That is the definition the court gives, yes - however, I say that is not 'lying''
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'hell, I've failed if I believe you when you say yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'boys do that all the time, allowing others to think that they have done something by simply not denying others' misstatementes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I say that to lie by ommission is not lying at all, merely letting the stupid live up the their namesake'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Tigernuts, blame Reagan :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and Dukmaijan, and Wison. After 3 republcan governors, California had enough :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Wilson*'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well anywhere where there is a high proportion of welfare beneficiaries, and educated idiot trendies (read 'townies') you'll get democrat/labour'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the best I could say at being truthful, is that I listen to what you say if I suspect you, without believing it, but I take notes, and as I gather evidence and investigate, I keep your statements in mind as possibly pertinent information'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a similar issue in the Uk with the 'Liberal Decocrats''
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Democrats, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and then I imagine that whole scenario, and what you could do if you wanted to be malicious and guide me towards something bad, and then act as best as I can, not knowing if one or the other side is true'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Cambodia, you can't blame anyone for your misfortunes, you are responsible for your own actions. That's axiomatic existentialism.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well truthfully, you can only be so cautious'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anyone who plans to deceive you already has the upper hand as far as paranoia goes'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are the sum total of your choices, if after you made your last choice you happen to have a misfortune, you have to remember it was your choice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it was'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'like the rest of life, there are precautions you can take, and some of it you can do nothing about'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and you do your best'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that sounds like a cop out :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, I mean, someone who wants to deceive you is already operating above any practical level of paranoia that you can possibly have in your normal life'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Elbert County man labelled a terrorist for investigating cost of County CCTV system'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you can't see every threat that may or may not be after you, or who could be manipulating you, or who is lying to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you just...do as much as you can about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'heh, well, Tigernuts, we have entered a new era (or actually have gone back in time). Governments have openly become oligarchies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'only a cop out if you bullshit yourself about how much you try'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The US touts its constitution, but it fails to tell the world that it is only applicable part time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I think the rest of the world knows that much about the US though'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it fails to apply it msot of the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not because it shouldn't be, but because it's convenient to them not to'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'government unfortunately self-selects a certain kind of person'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, dickheads'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and those people have a shape that they would like the world to be in'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the shape where they rule and you don't'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"The dollar is already dead and you don't know it"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I do think that the US is ending its reign over the world and that someone else will be running the show here in the future'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why you have war brewing'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well it's a tough pill to swallow'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pill?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think the pill will fix?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we'll have to forge a new national identity that isn't based on arrogance'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are going to be wiped out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, the fact that we are going to have to step down as arbiters of world affairs is a tough piece of news to assimilate'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a tough pill to swallow'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this has nothing to do with being an arbiter of anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ideally, we'll ask Britain, like a lost son asks his father, how you deal with running the world and then losing it, and then they will compassionately help us grow up'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then we can join the rest of Europe in the retired countries lounge'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'why do you think the US dollar was so great for so long?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oil'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because we had the clout to guarantee our success'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'manipulation!'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we had the power to do it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all your wealth and resources have been seperated from the country'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and very soon, that will not be the case'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, our shit was unsustainable'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-everyone's- shit is unsustainable'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why it's affecting most of the developed world'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I believe that the whole thing takes turns'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but US and EU must deeply'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I think there is a natural rhythm to it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not unless you consider on a civilisation scale'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I do'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, who controls the majority of influence, of all types, in our world'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Keynesian economics suggests economies periodically dip and surge between undersustaining, and oversustaining - recent developments have suggested this is a tiered system, in that the minor dip and surge pattern also fits a wider dip and surge pattern.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but even then, you can't use old patterns, the world has globalised - nothing is isolated anymore'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Keynesian economics is a crock of shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are still rulers, and empires, they just don't work militaristically anymore'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'nowadays it's more cultural and financial'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And yet it keeps getting proven over and over again Tiggr'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'influence'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it doesn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anyways, probably China will take a turn for awhile'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or try to'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ok honestly, I can't pretend to know who will sit in the Amyrlin Seat next'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you believe in Keynesian economics, you might as well believe in Star-signs'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you are a politician, and everyone else believes in star-signs, then that would actually be a useful belief'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, no'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have a global currency already in effect, and that's a bit scarey'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'err...'false' stock market tips that are spouted by widely heard and believed people still have real effects'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anyway, I guess if we all get bored enough, we could actually go ahead and throw World War III'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'just to get it out of our systems'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know who'll survive that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no one does, man, that's the big thrill about it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'war is retarded'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '...and?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but every so often we forget that it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you think the ruling elite care if it's retarded or not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I think that they can't live without the non-elite regular people'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and they know it'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh, slaves on the reservation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'at the very least'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we are all slaves on the reservation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'like I said earlier, parasite and host'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'in any case, even at their most self-serving, they'd never just gratuitously wipe us all out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they'll keep just enough alive to do the donkey work'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'unless they thought that they could do it to other people and not "us", and that a world with just "us" and not the rest of "them" would be advantageous'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if enough leaders see that as a real possibility, then we'll have war'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and since most stuff is done my machines these days, they need a whole lot less of us than 50 years ago. This is why there are so many bio-ethics groups calling for wiping out 80% of the population'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and these bio-ethics nuts tend to get brought into UN and other places of power'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'too bad we can't restructure our economic system to accomodate a system where everyone, regardless of employment, benefits from the fruits of our automation'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I heard once of someone who wrote (fictionally) of a future that basically runs off of a stipend economy, like the state of Alaska, but on a way larger scale, with all of our basically fully automated industry as the oil pipeline'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cops use taser on a man having a seizure'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sick headline'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh dear, NJ passed a bill essentially preventing parents from deciding whether or not to have their kids vaccinated'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I don't know about other states, but in NY and VA you couldn't attend publics schools (or college) without them'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'common bit of propaganda, you need a waiver'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but NJ has passed a bill to essentially preclude that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well, learned something new I guess.  I'm not from the camp that thinks vaccines are harmful, but I do worry about anytime the government mandates something, that the cost of it will suddenly explode due to increased demand'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'is there anything in the legislation to prevent price fixing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, legislation is in place to maintain price fixing and monopoly'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, vaccines aren't a problem, pointless vaccines are'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccines aren't a problem, certain types of vaccines are'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'can you give me an example of a pointless vaccine they are mandating?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccines aren't a problem, certain implementation of vaccination is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flu'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'they mandated flu vaccine?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and flu is the best example of all of the above - it's all about money'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not for everyone, but in certain schools and public sectors'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'generally vaccines are slightly harmful, but preferably on average far less harmful than the disease they are supposed to prevent, that is sort of the point :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good example was gardisil shots for girls at high school in Texas'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the case of flu'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'given that the US seems to have far more mandatory vaccines than most other rich countries, and to some extent give the vaccines earlier, you may want to consider that, of course'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'wow, I even get my kids flu vaccinated, but I'd agree that one's so hit or miss it shouldn't be mandated'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'along with the interesting notion that mercury is safe in vaccines and deadly everywhere else'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, mercury is good for you, stop lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'some of the seasonal flu vaccines seem to work rather poorly, but those are generally not even mandatory for health care personell here'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'where I work they offer (but certainly don't require) a free flu vaccine.  My wife works in health care, she was mandated to get one, but then she works with elderly people on a daily basis so I can understand the concern'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flu shots don't stop you getting flu'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that has to be the message to take away, but it's not the message people get told'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Flu shots trick your immune system into protecting you'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well no, and seat belts don't stop you from dying in a car wreck, it's all about statistics'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flu shots protect you from a limited spectrum of different flu varients'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'see there's another one parents are familiar with, and my concern for the mandated vaccines: both states I've lived in have mandatory child car seat laws until your 8, sounds good on paper, but when you go to the store to buy a car seat they're 80 bucks a pop, cuz the manufacturer knows they have you by the balls'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it should not take 80 bucks to make a car seat'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably does'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'not where you're guaranteed to sell several to every new person born'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it's a plastic mold and a cushion'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'll bet China could crank one out for under 3 bucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it's the exact issue I have with "Obamacare" - mandatory health insurance means insurance companies know you have to buy, so they can jack up the price.  At least the legislation caps the amount of profit they can make on patients, but I don't think it does any favors for the overall costs of healthcare'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Looks like the debates closed most of the difference between Obama and Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'http://chainsawsuit.com/2012/10/05/the-great-debate/'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The Obama-Romney debate showed that they agreed on most of the goals, Romney favours gov't frameworks and private solutions, Obama seems to favour gov't framework and solution'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'my 4th grader came home with a certificate that she voted, penciled in berocko bama (sic).'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Romney listed some core concepts from his plan, Obama complained about Romney's lack of details, and kept complaining about apparently nonexistent elements of Romney's plans'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I seriously want to know if 3rd party candidates were presented, or if our kids are being indoctrinated to the two party system from the ripe old age of 9'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'interestingly my opinion of both candidates is somewhat higher after that debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'a two party system is the stable state for your election system :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well, turns out they were given 4 choices, though she couldn't remember who the other 2 were.  (To be fair she couldn't remember Romney either)'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm disgusted that in both debates so far, the candidates opted to completely dodge some tough questions.  In the VP debate, the moderator DIRECTLY asked Paul Ryan about the math behind his party's cut 20% of taxes acroos the board, and he continued to provide no specifics to the plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I get not wanting to get into the weeds of the math and have it take up the whole debate, but thus far it's nothing but a sound byte, and a poor one at that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'politicians rarely mention specifics'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'often because they don't have access to the details around implementing them'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well and one can argue the President isn't a legislator, and whatever they pass is ultimately at the mercy of what compromise can be achieved by Congress, which has become more and more unwilling to negotiate over the last decade'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but still, I think it's a fair question to ask someone if you got everything you wanted, what would it look like?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, ryan doesn't give specifics about his plan, because specifics that satisfy his claims don't exist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'that's the story left to be told by the opposition, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but thus my disgust with his (lack of) plan.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither side has a plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same here in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, at least one side will continue doing about the same thing they did for the last 4...'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'Gary Johnson has a plan - it's not an appealing one to many recipients of government services though'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but it at least mathematically works out'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I really wish he'd been able to debate with the candidates.  I think he'd have made a stark contrast to them by actually providing some detail, forced the harsh reality of what spending cuts vs tax hikes looks like'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would that be, sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'R49% O47%, burrrrrn'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police called to school because of st'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police called to school because of lunchbox contained a drink in a glass jar'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what was the alleged crime'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vice principal  told the boy they may transfer him out of school, would enrol them in an alcaholics class, and tried to suspect him for 5 days for violating the school's drug and alcohol policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the fact that schools are run by crazed lunatics isn't a good advert for private schooling, i don't know what is'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Tigernuts initially misreported the incident with a misleading inflamatory "lunchbox contained a drink in a glass jar" instead of "lunchbox contained an alleged alcoholic drink"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't alcoholic'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What, Tigernuts was being misleading? I am shocked, I tell you! Never before has the world even imagined such a scenario!'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'covered by "alleged"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't an alcoholic drink, the lunatic vp just assumed that'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially because there is a push to prevent kids bringing packed lunches to schools in many states'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no need to be bitter just because your deity is losing ground, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless Romney wins by a landslide, he will have stolen the election, with Republicans pushing through ludicrous voter ID laws.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't make you sound even the least bit ridiculous'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Including laws that disqualify out-of-state drivers licenses. They're not even pretending anymore. They just want to keep people who usually vote predominantly Democrat from being able to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"[14 Oct 08:45:10] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, mercury is good for you, stop lying'" <--- yep, Tigernuts is a nutter'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if obama, who has just about every ounce of social propoganda and stereotype working in his favour, can't win against romney, who has every bit of negative neo-con warmongering wall street sleeze and greed issue running against him'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then.... he probably doesn't deserve to win'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's called sarcasm, Zade, I know you guys don't have it over there'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that was bad "terrorist" debating by Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts implies with his middle finger that he would like Zade to fuck off!
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'classy'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if anybody poor votes for Romney, they are mental-retards'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any vote not for Gary Johnson is a vote for the end of the world'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since we're going for unfeasably exagerated voting claims'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the end of the world would be a really cool time to live'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't be, which is kinda the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a vote for Romney is a vote for financial disaster'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're already in a financial disaster.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, since i'm editing Zade for accuracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"a vote is a vote for financial disaster"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'thank GW Bush and the Republicans for the current financial disaster'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"thank global banking elite for the current financial disaster"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republicans want to get in again and complete the wholesale damage to the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, no.  Our current financial disaster was started by the Depression-era democrats pushing to get the New Deal and related programs through so that America could emerge from the Great Depression.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in short, it's all the fault of the Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"the Republics want to get in again and make the most money out of the wholesale damage to the economy"'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'democrats and independants, too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you are in fact a total moron if you think politicians don't want to recoup the money they wasted on their campaigns.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or that they would adopt a "poor" lifestyle once they got into power.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'seriously, why do you think the winners throw such large parties when they win?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"The Thick of It" is a pretty good TV program'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"502. That's an error."'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Taylor Swift looks like a hag. Discuss'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you must like the type of chick that makes Igor look pretty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, more like taylor swift reminds me too much of my sister for me to consider her pretty'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and she does look farrrr older than 23'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's what a good stylist can do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're 23, why would you want to look like you're 45?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'she doesn't look 45, that's just you projecting your anti-sisterism onto her.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's her legs'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and her arms'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you've been looking at your sister's arms and legs?'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Taylor Swift's'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure, sure.  We got the debate history to prove otherwise, though. "She reminds me too much of my sister".'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you've been around zade too long'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'extensive exposure to the internet is a good thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's how we get the facts of everyday life.'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you're Yuna, then facts only come from accredited communist sources'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the video is awesome'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/cleveland-bus-punch-report-687451'
T3/r7/2012-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bus driver deserves a medal. Why is it US army vets get so badly treated?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or will the downsampling lose pretty much any "perks" that the 5.1 version would have?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, Communists win Czech local elections'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Flemist nationalists made sweeping gains across Northern Belgium in local elections, hoping to work towards a break up of the country'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stock markets rise on the back of massaged consumer spending figures'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more troops mass on Turkey-Syria border. Turkey accuses Syria of arming Kurdish seperatists'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(it was probably Russia)'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NYPD officer assaults man in Synagogue'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'russia might still be pissed that turkey intercepted that flight and confiscated radar eq'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope they are'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v7bxmXMTkwo'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'syria had no right to confiscate that eq'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err turkey'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it is their airspace...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not really the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'technically they have a right to allow or disallow whatever they want in their airspace'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only by prior arrangement'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes, by prior arrangement'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you decide to randomly bring down planes and then make stuff up to confiscate it, that's called piracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they do forbid military eq passing through to syria, though. This has been in effect for quite some time, I believe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least, well before that incident'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was an arms embargo'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'specifically a UN saction'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err sanction'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't need anyone's approval to enforce your own arms embargo, in any case'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't, but this wasn't arms that they seized'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they didn't seize anything in the end, apparently'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's up to the country what they deem to be military eq'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they seized radar eq...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'russia demanded it back, not sure if turkey returned the eq. Last I heard, not yet.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it was a UN sanction they were acting under, then what constitutes items banned under the embargo will be written quite thoroughly'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were russia i'd invade turkey, say fuck em'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they don't have a right to invade another country over something the country had a right to do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'impose their own no flyzone over the north border of syria, since Nato can't be trusted with it'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we disagree on the salient point'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if I say no sending military eq to country B over my airspace... that's what it means'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then there's the bombing of Syria from Turkish aircraft, that's a violation too'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that's in retaliation...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'retaliation for the syrian insurgeants firing mortars into turkey?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when it's turkey that provided access to the country for them and are supplying them the mortars in the first place?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the syrian govt doesn't deny firing the mortars though...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and besides, it's kind of the wrong direction for the rebels to be firing in'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're concentrated on the border regions and firing south, the govt is firing north'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'syrian foreign minister went on state tv within a couple of hours and said they didn't do it. UN had to retract a statement stating that Syria had claimed responsibility'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was a NATO mortar, they even found unexploded shells and matched them up to NATO supplies'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm willing to believe it could have just been a few strays'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'plenty of countries use nato ammo'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not Syria, they use Russian'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heck, even we use some, and we're on the other side of the world'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'these were mortars supplied to the insurgeants via Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which they've been doing all along via a joint US/Turkey military base just inside the Turkish border'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a proxy war between Nato/Saudi/Qatar/Sunnhi axis and Russia/Shia access'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why you've got US sending military forces to Jordan'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, it's "insurgent"...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and UK firming up defence commitments with Bahrain'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insurgents, terrorists, foreign freedom fighters'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'call them what you will'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure it's a proxy war... they're common these days'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the west should have just butted out'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, with turkey right next door, you can't blame them for taking an active role'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an active role would have been ensuring no fighters cross the border, and nothing except medical aid does'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not 'actively arming and fortifying the Al-Quaida''
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'besides, with turkey having largely free elections, domestic public opinion is critical for them'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, well they've had a few large protests against action already'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while they may have been responding with more force than necessary, they have been keeping within the range of legitimate actions. At least the overt actions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and they are working in direct opposition to al qaeda too, despite your claims'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'legitimate defined as bending the rules as far as they possibly can, much like the UK/US invasion of Iraq in 2003'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bending... but not breaking...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, they're not, al-quaida is on their side'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'al qaeda doesn't want foreign intervention, so that they can radicalise the rebels, who would have no one else to turn to'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'al-quaida were essentially set up by, financed, trained, and directed by Saudi Arabia and USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'They're Saudi's dog'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a power struggle, and although they are nominally on the "same side", they're really bitter enemies, much like the soviet/allies coalition, or the CCP/ROC alliance vs japan'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not even remotely as much enemies as you make out'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'both of them would very much like the other faction to get slaughtered or pull out of the conflict... more power for them, if they win.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'remember how the ROC's "allies", the CCP, destroyed them after japan fell, by taking much of the credit while enduring few of the losses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the best result for turkey would be a new syrian govt that shares their values and system...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best result for the turkish government is that Syria's regime wins and forgives them'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, why would turkey want a neighbour firmly in the orbit of one of their strategic threats?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think if Assad falls Syria will be a safer neighbour?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if assad wins, and they are seen to not have done enough, they can forget about the next election...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who's 'they'?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'turkey's govt'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i find this whole attitude of "destroy a country killing 10s of thousands of people and ask questions later" distasteful'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they're doing it to liberate the country...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '10s of thousands of people getting killed by the country probably don't'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't warranted in iraq, wasn't warranted in afghanistan, wasn't warranted in Libya, wasn't warranted in Syria, and won't be warranted in Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has nothing to do with liberation'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hard to justify sitting on your hands while your neighbours govt massacres their own people'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which they weren't'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'intervene, save lives, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, because the intervention has saved lives, clearly'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you might notice that they only switch sides after assad started murdering his own people blatantly...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'switched'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when did he do that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when the protests erupted?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is that any different to Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, China, Pakistan, or USA for that matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or South Africa'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they don't share a border with turkey?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why does that matter?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I mean, sure, it's not nice to ignore people getting murdered in nakalabalistania or wherever, but most people can just avert their eyes. When your neighbour is raping his daughter in broad daylight, it's a bit hard to say "ho hum, I don't see anything, just weeding my garden here."'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the US and UK's excuse?'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, global powers are different... more meddlesome. But even then, they aren't really intervening much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mostly words from them, and bits of aid because their "allies" want them to do something'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but they really ought to be doing more... even if it's easy to ignore, a "democracy" shouldn't be averting their eyes just because it's happening elsewhere...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i don't believe in the primacy of democracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's inherently flawed'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't like dictatorships...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe you'd prefer an undemocratic form of govt, but I think most will disagree'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Democracies are less bad than other realistic forms of government!'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'usually..'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pretty much'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'constituional republic is fine, provided you don't let arsehat dictators and wall street ignore/denigrate the constitutional part'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'consitutional monarchy works fine, provided you actually -have- a constitution, and the seperations of power remain seperate and active'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a constitutional anything isn't going to be fine without a strong democracy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and as long as the monarch doesn't quit doing her job, and the judiciary doesn't give up independance and become poodles of the government'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it require strong both, and USA is losing strength in both'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... states rise and fall with the attitudes of the upper classes...'
T3/r7/2012-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Everything I said has came true! Everything we've done has been right!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gallup: R50% O46%'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Indeed. However Rassmussen has O up by 2 in swing state tracker, down 2 overall'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ultimately it comes down to those swing states.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Still, we could have a situation where the popular vote goes one way and the EC goes the other.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Battery maker with $249 mil in taxpayer cash goes bankrupt'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, how ragebot do you think the dems would get if it turns out Obama won the popular and Romney won the EC?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'twice in a decade and a half.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently black communities are threatening riots if obama loses'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they threaten riots for just about everything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they riot when some guy gets shot, they riot when some guy doesn't get shot, they riot when their team loses, they riot when their team loses...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama: 'We got back every dime of bailout'. CBO: Bailout will lose $24bn'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Possibly Obama meant some specific bailout'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Large foreign investors are shunning France'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Tigernuts is our world news ticker'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'did the battery-maker CEOs get bonuses before they declared bannkruptcy'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold at $1748 as stockmarkets and currency rallies at the fake economy figures'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'look'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'lol, mistell'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what am I looking at?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Gold is going to skyrocket when these economies all tumble'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Honestly, the biggest argument in my mind against Obama is this: In 2016 we'll have 22 trillion in debt. That's enough for any creditor to say enough. Game over.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably be $1800 by xmas'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'With Romney, at least he's talking about debt reduction - don't hear that from Dems, only all this vision stuff but no idea how to pay for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'All the dems say is what Bill Clinton says, some math that doesn't really add up. My math is this: 16tril - 10tril = 6tril. QED.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think either party really has a clue'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Probably Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Mitt Romney debt reduction is going to beggar the USA populace except for the extremely rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They'll both go to the edge and then do a last ditch effort to pull back.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do better to vote for Gary Johnson'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, problem is you can't just eliminate the entitlement spending without riots. Too much socialism from the 1960s (perhaps earlier) to today. Bad outlook as a consequence... sigh'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its a real downer! Now, lets talk about something cheerful. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's hard for you, it's impossible for us in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1/3 of our national budget is spent on welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I know. I heard Scotland is leaving the UK today in the WSJ'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'WSJ said both parties think it will happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're planning a referendum on it in 2015'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the polls are currently against separation but 4 years is a long time'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, it is. Not sure how Scotland would fare on its own.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with the mainstream people who claim they'd struggle seperately, i think they'd do well, they've got low population density and a shit ton of natural resources'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But I think the Enlglish pound would still be used, so effectively the UK would still control their economy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What would the benefit be?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'self rule?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Wait a bit while I laugh :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get to set their own tax and spending policies'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think its history. Scots not wanting to be ruled by the English?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't they try that under that Wallace guy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Scotland was independent except for the last 300 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, 1706'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In practice, taxes and rules would have to be almost the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'unless there's some hidden demographic difference I'm not aware of'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll probably be a more socialist country, but backed by a lot of natural resource wealth'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll be more like scandinavian countries than the uK'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'vhere are the nuclear missle silos in the UK, scotland or england'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Wonder if they'd have to change the union jack - it has the scottish flag in it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'scottland was genocided by a national hero of rome who has a statue there today, called septimus severus'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they were independent up till around there'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but of course we'd need to see figures on Scottish taxes/spending adjusted for offshore income and military guesstimates'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the estimates totally underestimate water power and water supply + bio energy potential'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the estimates that are out there only take into consideration existing oil/gas resources in teh north sea'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They dont need any real kind of military presence, the world is at peace now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and those estimates put scotland about where it is already, not really any worse or better off'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'however, afaik, Scotland spends a bit more per capita than the rest of the UK, even after adjusting for higher amount of taxes sourced there, so any significant overall tax reduction would have to accompany cuts in spending (or new debt/money printing by scottish central bank)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd just start charging for water'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'taxes are taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could sort it without too much of a hit, it'd be a socialist paradise, so i'd hate it, but it could be made to work'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while they don't have the taxation power, they're not lumbered with the same scale of problems the rest of the UK faces'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Peace in our time" sentiment, November, perhaps you admire Neville Chamberlin'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'first job would be for the UK to leave the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there'll never be peace, as long as each nation lets the scum of their school bully success stories run their lives'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA will always choose the right route.... usually after exhausting all the wrong ones'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'being a two faced serpent is how you win in the world'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'honesty only takes you as far as against the interests of all the powerful people'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I was told that the USA should reduce all military spending to be one $0.01 over the UK spending by some on this MUD. Not a policy I think that makes sense, but its a policy that would work in a world peace scenario.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I guess world peace is here, if we just keep saying it is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we tried that prior to each world war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't that how government forces everyone to believe their lies, Romney?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We're trying it now too Hanslanda, its called sequestration.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But hey, like I said - lets just keep a happy face on it. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'This is too depressing. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bright sides? Washington state is looking to legalise pot'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Whats wrong with that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said it was a bright side'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Hey, I'm a states-rights kind of guy. If thats how they want to roll it there, go for it (pun not intended)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh OK ... good ! :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you watch the feds try and overrule it'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'pot shouldn't have been made illegal in the first place, anymore than made in canada products actually made in filthy facilities in china'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it was only made illegal because of DuPont and polyester'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Where in the US constitution does it say that the federal government has the right to stop a state from passing a social law involving only its citizens?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'seen as legalizing pot hippy liberal idiots, they agree with common sense on that'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It gives them the right to set up posts on Washington's borders to ensure it doesn't go into Idaho, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'federal government doesn't care about the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it wouldn't have been made illegal if the pot economy made it a point to pay their fair share.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was made illegal because hemp was a competitor to polyester'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and thanks to the predecessor of the UN, the law was copperplated world-wide'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The US constitution has ~7800 words in it, including the ammendments. A search yields no mention of marijuana'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'THC addiction is a bad disease -- and the second-hamd-smoke sidestream pollution is far more damaging than tobacco-pollution'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor would it, it was an extremely versatile plant to grow - George Washington grew it'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Zade, nonsense'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cannabis has more tar content in it, smoking's not the only method of ingestion though, and people who smoke pot mostly will do so only occasionally, as opposed to one cigarette per hour'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct, chemosh'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but that won't equal nothing like a forest fire or any other , mostly preventable, scenario'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to ban drugs based on harm, ban prescription medication like SSRi's and oyxcoden or whatever it is that they call hillybilly heroine'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ritalin too'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'THC causes psychological damage and mental damage'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does not'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Pot has no physical addictive propertie'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ch w'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'THC is addictive'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aardwolf is addictive'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has been known to cause problems in people who have pre-existing psychotic conditions'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'THV has very low addiction potential'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'THC is not chemically addictive, it's psychologically addictive'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'THC even'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'depends on what you mean in addiction'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/19/is-marijuana-addictive-it-depends-how-you-define-addiction/'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karkaroth: 'yeah tiger balance that against liquor why are we even talking about this '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Wheat is addictive'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, kark'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'only mildly addictive, though..'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'television is addictive'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the sidestream damage from cannibis is (not merely the increased Tar but) the THC'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your face is more deadly'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more people has died through chocolate poisoning'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that some idiots believe that they are able to handle THC while lolling about indolently on welfare, is irelevant to the damage to highly tuned individuals that require a drug-free environment while doing potentially dangerous jobs'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a different issue entirely'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i largely agree'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Colorado health officials to be fired if they refuse mandatory flu shots'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what type of homicidal insanity does mercury poisoning tend to cause '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lead poisoning in children often results in arson'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'then look at how difficult it is to get any form of drugs anywhere in america or canada, you can probably find a village of 10 people who has one that sells drugs'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'keeping them illegal doesn't limit availability, but it does make sure only the most detrimental members of society are often in charge of distribution'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'google allegedly manipulating search results to favour big brands over small businesses'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'which gives them lots of money to reinvest into your legitimate society'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and cocaine and all that too, south american nations who stand to profit hundreds of billions of dollars per year from narcotics industry, were asking canada and america to rework prohibition with them'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'big brands are owned by companies with enough money to pay for better websites.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so that it is a less lucrative business and less murder is caused by it, but canada and america were against that'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'which tells me that south american nations were willing to sacrifice the 'greedy drug lord' revenues from those industries, if canada and america were to communicate about how illegal they are'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they were trying to remove their value, which works contradictory to themselves if they want to get rich like that, which lots of them have been for decades'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lazy Chemosh is leaving out too much information to be coherent'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's an overview of conclusions from reading the news'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'global warming ended 16 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iraq publishes a huge rise in birth defects'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the news could have put it together for you too if they were allowed to have an opinion'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'attributed to depleted uranium and other experimental weaponary'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an ambiguous synopsis in not a coherent overview'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'don't blame your inability to comprehend me on me, our minds must work on different frequencies'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wgich first world nations are responsible for polluting Iraq with depleted uranium'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Chemosh, you are too lazy (and lacking in english expression expertise) to be unambiguously coherent, concise, and accurate -- (likely the THC and alcohol)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not a very good foreign affairs image to have, being the reason why solutions to the mass-grave bridge hangings handless feetless headless torso found shot up schoolbusses and civilian casualties in south/central america'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'are never attempted'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '-usa, canada-'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Zade should require a license'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or failing that, should go get a superior analogue recording'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i failed both englishes, twice'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'once in highschool when i dropped out, and one in adult grade 12 courses when i questioned the use of the word holocaust in a story taught to the class, resulting in the class turning on me'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'which told me that i can't express myself in any of the assignments they handed out'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and therefore i failed at english again'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Depleted Uranium yet contains up to 25% of the U235 found in in nondepleted Uranium - depleted Uranium is not exactly "depleted"'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Zade, it's pretty dangerous stuff, it's use was banned even by the US military up until 1992'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then for whatever reason they decided troops were expendable'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '1992 is when the Clinton administration started'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt there's a link'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'using Depleted Uranium in munitions is a physical equivalent to (and or worse than) what the Christians call the Unforgivable Sin '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what kind of armor do you need to stop depleted uranium bullets'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like those ones they shoot from those 50 calibre sniper rifles'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'some of that nanotech body armor from israel work/'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they said it's alot stronger than kevlar and lighter, so maybe layering it together could do it'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how about if muslims were to use depleted uranium bullets (that exploded into a fine mist) in the USA in the rich neighbourhoods -- the property values there may plummet'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'probably costs alot if you don't make it yourself though'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'when does the debate start central time?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'or period, I can do the math.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's been going on for nigh over an hour, now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'no it hasnt'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '9 P.M. Long Island time, apparently.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure it has.  Chemosh, Tigernuts, and Zade are like zording it up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'll never chant the incantations of the muslims to please their demented idea of what god is'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when fired, the depleted uranium in munitions tends to explode into a mist that covers the local area'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'those kinds anyways, some of them aren't as evil as 'those ones', like the gulag among the russians'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'with their kgb high priests'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you implying the Russians are Muslims?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You do realize that the Russians are Christian, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in siberia last year they tried to outlaw the extremist bagavad gita, and upanishads of hindu'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not all of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, but we're speaking in general terms.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'you mean ALL russians are christians?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'who are obviously a volatile people since they don't terrorize anybody'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'then in bosnia and serbia, dagestan'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they got alot of evil ones there, all kept in check by the russian soldiers who's bosses provide ammunition to the terrorist in the middle east, along with china and possibly sweden'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'from what i read in the news'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'christians make up 46.5% of russians'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, using Chemosh Logic, all Christians are evil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Hindu religion preaches false values'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'then false values don't seem to hurt anybody, unlike allah's holy akhbarists'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Muslims =/= Terrorists.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but like i said, not all muslims are bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Terrorists = Extremists. Extremists exist in all religions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the ones who aren't should take it upon themselves to uproot the ones who are from themselves, to prevent this shit in the world today'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet, you just said that you refuse to bow down to Muslims by "speaking their whatevers". Instead of saying "I refuse to bow down to TERRORISTS".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Extremists exist in all organisations'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it was inclusive of muslims in general, not to join their religion and chantings because of the ones among them who are the devil'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying "I refuse to bow down to niggers, and by that I mean the black people who are criminal".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'thinking they're god'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any organisation or philosophy that has more than 1 non-identical followers will have extremists'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't have to adhere to peaceful islam religion or the devil worshipper islams'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then you refuse to join teh Christians in their chanting? Or any religion, really?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if i ever choose islam as my religion it's by choice, not by supplication to their good nature'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because pretty much all major religions have evil zealots in their ranks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'even the minor ones do :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that won't happen, so you're labelling me is bullshit, because you make what i say mean what you want it to mean'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'also, there are evil people who are atheists or of no particular religion. it cuts across -- it's not a proper subset.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the muslims are terrorists when they go violent because of cartoons depicting MohamMad'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it's because what you say if BULLSHIT and you're now BACKTRACKING to justify yourself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That or you're really terrible at expressing yourself and conveying what you truly mean.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you know how many people go to church for social status?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'millions upon millions of them do just that'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'with the odd one having a real interest in religion'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What does that have to do with anything?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you're trying to call me a heretic for not adhering to doing that for any reasons'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What religion do you describe you, Chemosh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No I'm not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i already said what i mean if you can't see it then you must be on the same frequency as zade there'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You just claimed that I'm calling you a heretic, you fuckwit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wtf is with the personal attacks?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't have a religion, i was baptised anglican before i can remember and lived a nonreligious life'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"describe" =/= "ascribe"'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Go take your meds. Your lack of meds are interfering with your ability to comprehend basic English.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you're irreligious?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'religiously so'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't worry about Yuna's trolling, he's just savage because his deity Obama is taking a pasting in the polls'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's worried he'll lose his welfare check....'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If by "Taking a pasting" you mean "It's a dead race". And if by "Yuna will lose his welfare check" you mean "Yuna has never in his life applied for a single welfare check and he doesn't fucking live in the U.S.".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You see, some of us aren't selfish pricks who only fight for what they themselves want, but for what they think is fair for everyone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'd do better to stop puffing out your chest to anybody who disagrees with you. Few people like self-righteous bullies like you'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's rich, coming from you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you weren't so vile to everyone, you'd get called a cunt a lot less'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe you haven't noticed but I'm only ever vile to you and Chemosh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are vile to just about everyone'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I've only started being actually vile towards Chemosh today. There's your clue.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I just hate the two of you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And that DosseT guy, but he's crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really.  Not only are we on the internet, but we're in a space where such language is allowed if not encouraged.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i don't hate you, Yuna, pity you maybe, pity the people who have to be around you, but not hate you'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The 3 people I am vile to on Debate: Chemosh, who's certifiably insane, Tigernuts, for self-evident reasons and DosseT, who keeps demanding we disprove his crazy conspiracy theories and declares himself winner when we tell him it's not proper debating etiquette to put forth a claim, provide no evidence and then demand the opposition prove him wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'night folks, don't let the troll bite'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, in Tigernuts' mind, Chemosh, Tigernuts and DoessT are the ONLY people on Debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'oo presidential debate tonight, gonna have to turn this shit off'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Romney's attack ******* LACERATES ******** Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You mean the "attack" that consists almost entirely of lies and misconstruction of the truth?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'how's the debate going so far?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'awesome man'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mitt Romney lies. Obama finally starts calling him a liar to his face.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Without using the word "liar")'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how..political!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'who does the crowd seem to be favoring?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'nobody really, oddly'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not the WWE. The spectators aren't allowed to clap.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'romney needs to lie more, then!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or make any noises, really.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we could probably pass Yuna and Tiger off as candidates and still have a decent approximation of reality.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'they are chuckling now'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lol. Romney just got caught not knowing the rules of the debate and got smacked down by the moderator.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'mitt romney can't possibly be that much of a liar'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Too bad she then caved to him lying some more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'truth and debates, hah! that doesn thappen in this county. Its about style, presentation'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'vote for me and I'll get cheap good from china while preventing them from outcompeting us, prevent inflation while restoring the economy, cut taxes while eliminating the deficit, and also, cut spending without actually reducing any of the programs you love!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Odiji: 'This debate's startin' to get heated now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip rapidly nods twice at Odiji, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm still waiting for ANY specifics from Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHY hasn't anyone demanded he tells us about his tax plan in detail?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(In the debates)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Odiji: 'Still wondering what the 5 points are tbh'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think Romney needs to trim his nails'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney was just about specifics about his tax plan and how he plans on accomplishing it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the dems are scared shitless that he might actually have something that looks like it works.  Given the polling, it's worst-case-scenario if the votes get behind him on economy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His answer? 4 minutes of "I want to do this and that. And Obama has failed on this and that." without giving any specifics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except the old talking point "I'm gonna get rid of loopholes for the rich". Yeah. The plan that all economists are condemning as impossible...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hanslanda, if he has anything that works, WHY hasn't he presented it yet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'doesn't Obama say the same thing? getting rid of loopholes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because he's scared shitless too (much the same reasons, but going the other way).  Why kill off your winning streak?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait... now he's even saying that he'll reduce taxes for the middle class?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's new. And even MORE impossible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'personally, I'd love it if Romney offered some specifics/ substance of a plan that would actually work... I just want a leader who knows how to run a country, but unfortunately so far Romney has offered absolutely nothing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'I dunno, Romney appeared to run Mass. pretty well'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what's Obama run well?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'he's run the debt up well...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, he wants to get rid of capital gains taxation, so that the middle class will benefit (slightly) and the rich get lots of money back. And then somehow balance the budget'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Flip, but he's not running to be President on the policies he used in Massachussets.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In fact, he's running on the DIRECT OPPOSITE policies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which is why Massachussets is set to vote OVERWHELMINGLY for Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I mean Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney's OWN STATE is voting for Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how do you know what he's going to do as president? as president you surround yourself with people who are experts on shit. you decide hardly anything as the president'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'yeah I'm sure that the 1990s are back.. we are about to have the internet 2 happen eh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'you sign your name here'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because of what he's told us in interviews and debates, FLip?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Either he's fucking lying to us or he's running on bullshit policies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's only those two options.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok so why didn't you do it already?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, pick your poison. Someone running on bad policies or a baldfaced liar.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Don't be so harsh on Obama, Yuna, I'm sure he's trying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and has those details somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck are you talking about, Tinada?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Baldfaced lies. Same as Obama. Welcome to politics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'You can't be such a naive child that you believe everything Obama is saying. If so, I have a bridge to sell you'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I'm not sure massachusetts was run too well under Romney, I'm looking at an article that says Mass. was 47th in job growth when Romney left office'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually I think this format is working out really well. Its really getting to the american people ... we may end up the winners here'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama doesn't lie nearly as much as Romney. And Romney has ONLY lies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so I switched candidate names, I can't say I have seen a detailed Obama plan either'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney is running on Tricle Down Economics, which hasn't worked, EVER.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'trickle*'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'it is the natural tendency for weath to gather at the top, as those with money have more power to earn more money'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Running on Trickle Down Economics is rich for someone who ran a company that outsources a bajillion jobs to China during years where Bush employed Trickle Down Economics policies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'so it's more like a trickle up policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"I want to do this and that. I just can't tell you how I'm going to be able to finance it, though."'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Red is a better tie color for obama. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'just like we had to pass obamacare to find out what was in it'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'tell ya what Yuna, you vote for Obama, that's where you want your tax dollars to go (if you pay taxes). I've seen what my tax dollars have done, pissed away in clean energy companies going bankrupt, blown on stimulus packages that didn't do shit, and added to the debt my kids are going to have to pay for. Stimulus packages, which by the way, have never worked. That's your buddy. I (and probably 53% of America) are going to vote for Elmer Fudd if he runs, just for some CHANGE'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Romney's not perfect, never claimed he was'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stimulus packages that doesn't do shit? The fuck are you talking about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'really don't care if he is or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not even Romney has the gall to claim what you just claimed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'where'd it get us?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'clean energy companies have gone bankrupt at a lower rate  than the average company'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what solution did it provide?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's no help for you. You've swallowed Romney's 47% argument. It's funny how every single Mittens supporter on Aardwolf always accuses anyone who supports Obama of being a 47%.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I have no  idea how this clean energy company misinformation has spread so '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"Stimulus packages, which by the way, have never worked." This is why I wish voters knew more econs'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I have never, not even once, in my life, applied for social security.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'I'm not talking about all companies. I'm talking about companies my tax dollars went to to try to keep them from going backrupt'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama has the biden laugh / sneer going on!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'that went backrupt anyways'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some of us support Obama/Biden because they're the superior candidates, not because we want to mooch off the government.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'companies go bankrupt... It wouldn't be the free market if you won 100% of the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK do you know which companies your tax dollars went to?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'do you watch the news?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You claimed Obama's stimilus packages didn't do shit. Now it's "I just meant the specific companies my own tax dollars went to".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is General Motors bankrupt?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'No, unfortunately not'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'where the hell did that come from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, then the Stimulus DID shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if we never took risks with capital, we wouldn't even have reached the stone age...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Auto bankruptcies would have allowed a proper reset'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip is agreeing with that Tinada person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'same as for banks, now they get to waddle along until something else tips them over'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'welcome to the free market'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it might be a reset in korea, japan, and china...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'GM is leading the charge to monitor your driving habits, Big Brother-style.  If Big Auto has their way, just driving around in your care could potentially raise your tax bracket.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not even Romney's using the "The Stimulus Packages didn't do anything" argument because even THEY realize what ablatanlt lie that is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'uh, economics major here. Anybody else who has taken economics should know that by definition, government spending is a part of GDP, and since lowering interest rates is impossible at this point (they are essentially zero), fiscal stimulus is the only way to increase GDP'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'where did it get us Yuna, for the 100th time?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not the question!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Pretty sure I added a question mark there'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'YOU, Flip, claimed that the Stimulus Packages didn't do anything. They DID. You're LYING. Go AWAY.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In the case of the auto bailouts, the problem is that generally a managed bankruptcy and new contracts/owners is generally better than the kind of gov't run bailout Obama did'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip is agreeing with that Tinada person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'good facts Yuna, you're on a roll'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there is a case to be made that if you were able to raise future inflation expectations, monetary stimulus can still work. But it's of course going to be much less effective than fiscal...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'no, a mass bankruptcy would crush the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Last time I checked, GM still had higher costs than any other car mfg. on the planet.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'you sound just like Obama ;)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it wasn't an auto bailout.  That was a cover to install government-friendly minions to help them incrementally get what they want.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Hanslanda's question.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why aren't we talking about women's reproductive issues yet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because they don't matter.  Old white/nearly-white guys with lots of old money, remember?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So in my best judgement, the auto bailouts did _something_ and that something was _worse_ than a bankruptcy, so Obama only gets bonus points for trying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'they didn't go bankrupt? I thought bankruptcy was part of that deal?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The FUCK is wrong with Mittens?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'not 100% on taht though'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'it's really simple. Businesses going bankrupt means less production, less labor, and a gaping hole in the auto market in the case of failure to bail out the auto industry. Detroit would become () a place of desolation and crime'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did he just argue that flex time HAS to be implemented because the woman's place is still to be the homemaker?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How about you legislate that it's illegal to pay women less than men and to give men the incentive to be the one to stay at home with kids instead of the women?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The thing is, "bankruptcy" doesn't mean "all the factories get shut down and rust forever", it means "all equity is lost, current contracts voided, new owners take over and keep things going"'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, what the FUCK does it matter to a single woman without kids if women are still predominantly the ones who stay at home/go home to take care of with the kids?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, he played up to the inherent tendencies of moms to look out for their kids.  Moms tend to act first, Dads are really the backup plan.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'right, there's different chapters and such'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A single woman without kids should NOT have to suffer being paid less because it's still mainly women who go home to stay with the kids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'perhaps not, but it does mean massive layoffs and a huge reduction in capital and capacity to produce'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Saric.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lololololol'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's talking about abortion and contraception.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but bulldozing detroit and relocating the inhabitants to concentration camps in the north east after war breaks out in the devastated slums would have been a great stimulus!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So, you have a choice between (a) creating a subsidized industry or (b) massive layoffs etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Way to go Obama! Shoe-horn those issues in there! Destroy Mittens!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Dude, the pill costs $9 a month .. less than two beers at a bar. I think they can afford it. $9 x 12 = 108 a year.. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In the long run, a country aiming for (a)-type solutions is going to fall way behind a country aiming for (b)-type solutions, since, well, command economies don't work much'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's not just talking about pills. He's talking about other things as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Birth control is but a SMALL PART of contraception.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'literally, small part'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they had just applied sufficient stimulus to raise aggregate demand to normal levels, the debt would've been lower, ironically. sigh'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'seriously.  How many working women do you know who want to just hand off everything to a guy (loved and trusted though he may be) while she's out slaving away for the paycheck?  Mom WANTS to be a part of her kids' lives.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'excellent question'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Shoo, heathens! The gov't is best at raising your kids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I know many women who want EQUAL responsibility when it comes to the kids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, my question remains: Why the FUCK should women WITHOUT kids have to suffer for any of that?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because they have titties and babychutes, too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some/many women prefer to be the stay-at-home parent or the parent who goes home to take care of the kids as soon as working hours are over... ergo ALL women should be paid less than men for equal work?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in a war, not every soldier gets the chance to fight the other side.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where's the logic there?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we guys have a name for it, it's called the honey-do list.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Amusingly, in Norway, recent studies found out that after adjusting for all sorts of things (except for the risk of losing your job), men made about 1% more than women.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'No attempts were set to estimate the value of job safety.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mittens' logic is flawless: The deficit is all Obama's fault. The bad economy had nothing to do with it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Source, Tinada?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, that's Norway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'hah, I forget, it was 2 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Nordic Countries are the best in the world at gender-neutral everything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but pretty much killed the equal wages debate in Norway'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But what the heck are these mitigating circumstances?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'And it's been reported that single 20-something women are making more than single 20-something men. http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news/47885723#47885723'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some kind of hack-job arguments, such as "Women live longer than men, so they have more time to work for money!"? "Women graduate earlier/faster, so they have more time to work for money"? Women don't have to spend money on X, Y, Z?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you've got to correct for education...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not watching that video while watching the debate. But the description says that recent female college graduates make more than recent male college graduates.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No mention of if it's for equal work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So WHO CARES if they are generally able to get BETTER jobs than men?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for instance, asians make more than whites in the US, but if you correct for education, they make quite a bit less on average.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not the issue. The issue is that they make less for EQUAL work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'You're arguing against a video you didn't watch based on a single sentence summary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm making a perfectly valid assumption based on what I know about the world.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'If women were seriously getting paid that much less for equal work, why don't companies stack women, spend 70% on their payroll, and laugh all the way to the bank?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'asians have a far better education ethic than whities do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Women in the U.S. still make less than men, no matter at what age.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'they make up for it in child support and alemony'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and better benefits.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tharnin, because that's actually against the law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Child Support and alimony exists BECAUSE there's a difference in wages between the sexes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'so cant change one and not the other'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'definitely a flawed argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, not child support. But alimony.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whenever the woman makes more than the man, SHE is the one who has to pay for alimony. Shocker, I know!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'not an arguement, but women have more of an entitled attitude than men do'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the difference, even if it were to exist, does not even approach 10%, much less the often 50% that can be taken from the dad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Funny then, Modi, how there are currently, what, 3 men on this channel debating how men making more than woman is perfectly justifiable?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's no such thing as a father paying 50% of his wages in alimony and/or child support.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'sure there is'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'boy are you amusingly naive.  I've got a whole factory of such workers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Find me some cases where this is happening. If it happens so often, this should be easy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i'll have my buddy call you right now'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, funny how you just ASSUME that the woman always gets custody.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I lived through two such cases myself, and because of the closeness of adjacent relationships I directly saw the results of six more.  According to the experts, I'm textbook normal in this regard.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What fucking experts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, you lived through TWO cases where you had to pay alimony and/or child support?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you marry and divorce twice? And/or lose custody twice?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wasn't paying attention at the time, but they were championing waves of deadbeat-dad legislation and related divorce/custody policy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, I was the spoils.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, such a NYC accent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK do illegal immigrants "take [the] place" of people waiting in line to immigrate legally?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He did NOT have a super majority in both houses!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh hey, Romney blatantly lies to your FACE again!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when illegal immigration stops becoming taboo, they can affect the census counts.  We DO actually have immigration quotas and maximums in place, so if the numbers are saying we're full up then too bad for you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeees, remind the voters about how McCain beat you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney just joked about how 4 years ago, he was licking his wounds after being beaten by McCain.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'haha'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama didn't bring up Mittens' off-score accounts. He did so on his own!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'off-shore.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'i watched an old debate with Alan Keyes and Obama.  Man, I love AK.  I'd vote for him in a sec if he was running.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is Mittens just willfully sabotaging himself now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama has just as many as Mitt.  Rich people know how to handle their money, they run for office to learn how to handle other peoples' money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama pays more in taxes than Romney...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'more % prob'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I sincerely doubt that.  Rich people don't pay shit when they don't have to.  They just don't have that kind of moral fiber.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'well his tax returns have been released to the public'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Nobody pays shit when they don't have to'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'same as poor people, you mean?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'since when is being rich bad? my goodness.  I would never vote for a middle class prez'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Roninleader nods at Flip.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'why, since when is being middle class bad?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tax rates for 2011: Obama: 23.37%, Mitt Romney: 15.4%'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'which tax rate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well romney donated 30% to charity supposedly, tax deductable'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Overall.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how is that tax rate broken down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Interestingly, Romney ONLY had to pay 15.4% because he didn't take advantage of as many tax breaks and loop holes as he could.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'the US is one of the most sophisticated businesses in the world.  I would only want someone with proven qualifications'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'AND, he can retroactively take advantage of them once the election is over.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yeah, in the mormon religion it's pretty much a requirement that you give at least 10% to charity, and the rich are pressured to give more'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This AFTER the fact that he stated in an interview that he'd be an idiot unfit for office if he didn't take advantage of as many tax breaks and loopholes as possible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'I find it amusing the Obama always points to MA as a model for the US. XD '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's actually hotwired into their DNA.  Rich people who aren't charitably-minded don't actually stay rich for long.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, what he's saying is that Mittens is not running on the same policies as when he governed (he still is, technically) MA.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And how many of Obama's policies are in place in MA, put in place by Mittens, yet Mittens is now fighting those same policies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for some reason, being stingier makes them sick.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'surely you mean "Rich people who aren't charitably-minded don't actually stay *alive* for long."!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1) Obama did not start by apoligizing. 2) What the FUCK did Obama's policies in the Middle East have to do with anything?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they get sick and die, they aren't murdered or run out of town.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'this is a much better debate than the last one though'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've never understood that idiotic argument. So... if Obama had ruled the Middle East with fear, there wouldn't have been an attack on the Benghazi embassy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Those terrorists would've attacked no matter what.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'they aren't saying ruled with fear. they're saying putting deterrants in place, like we always do'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'which does prevent them. terrorists generally take the path of least resistance'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, eventually the rich as a class gets greedier and more powerful, until they get murdered by their former slaves/serfs/peasants in a violent orgy that installs a murderous radical government that wrecks the country and leaves it far behind their rivals for generations'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what deterrents would that be? Placing tons of soldiers in every country in the Middle East.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's a mideastern cultural thing.  They DO play by a might-makes-right rule, kind of like a ramped up hispanic machismo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so basically, moreorless like a goblin or kobold, if they get it in their heads that you're bluffing or otherwise can't deliver they get proportionally braver and bolder.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wow, Mittens is really desperate, obsessing over "terrorist attack" vs. "demonstration".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'sweet'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Obama is killin it'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the FUCK are people not rioting over the Republicans' war on voters who don't vote for them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Isn't the Benghazi argument something like (1) there were good reasons to have better security at the time, (2) WH peeps said they had no reason to improve security and the attacks were caused by some old movie no one had heard about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not only are they instituting expensive and cumbersome voter ID laws that cost both the states and voters tons of money, now they want to limit early voting because minorities vote a lot during those opportunities and we can't have that, because minorities favour the Democrats over the Republicans.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know why some people want to vote on the fucking weekend? Because they have JOBS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because rioting is dumb.  And, really, it should be reserved for sporting events or when scared white guys defend themselves and get away with it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the administration's early version was that there was an ongoing demonstration and some extremists decided to attack the consulate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we should also abolish drivers licenses and photo ids, too.  Just because you have a piece of paper with a name and social security number on it should be good enough.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I never really saw the point of voter registration'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, wait, that's a voter identification system, can't have that!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic . o O ( Someone is WRONG on the internet. )
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grumpy Old Oladon: 'That doesn't happen.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you should look through history, Tinada.  There's several cases where people unaffected/unrelated to a particular vote were the deciding factor in said vote.  It would be very wrong if China shipped in a 20%-sized bloc of Chinese citizens to the US to ensure that their pocket politician with all the sweet deals got into office.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Trickle Down Economics has NEVER WORKED.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and about the embassy security... try googling "embassy security funding"'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Midwest just after the Civil War was particularly known for such shenanigans, and one famous instance had Kansas natives deciding the outcome of a Missouri state vote..'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mittens' solution to companies outsourcing jobs is apparently to go to economic war with China on day 1.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'The 7-11 cup contest has accurately predicted the election since 2000 within 1%. A sample size of over 10 million has already given a 60-40 lead to Obama in this election. So the election is over anyway. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Mittens. It's not like there aren't tons of OTHER South-East Asian countries companies can set up sweatshops in!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ObamaCare requires businesses to provide their employees with health insurance. How EVIL of them!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only those business not included in the exemption list.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what does Obamacare do to the cost of employment?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'speaking of job costs'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'drastically increases it.  More healthcare means more cost.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'oh. well shit, if I was a business man I'd go where it was cheaper too. makes sense to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and since insurance companies can't deny you coverage on the basis of your health anymore (ie, pre-existing conditions), it means a fuckton of really sick people are going to spend more of the insurance pool all your premiums go into.  The smaller that pool gets, the higher the premiums go up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and if Obamacare targets that, well, healthcare quality and/or availability goes down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'so parts of Obamacare should be repealed'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Funny then how none of those doomsday scenarios have occurred in ANY of the countries that currently have socialized medicine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they really should hire the doctors directly...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Vote for me, 'cause I'm Christian (never mind that I'm the wrong kind of Christian)!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'These people you speak of that dont' have insurance, its not like we dont pay for them anyway, its just that we pay for them when their disease is progressed and its tons more expensive'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Preventative care is MUCH cheaper than actual care.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'your Messiah pisses out of the same dick my Messiah does.  There's really no wrong kind of Christian.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What I meant was, usually you will have laws restricting voting rights to citizens, possibly non-citizens who have been living in the country for some time, some criminals may be excluded etc. What good is achieved by adding a vote specific registration to that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you KNOW what the Mormons believe in, Hanslanda?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Plenty of Christian denominations look down on the Mormons because their beliefs differ so greatly from the other major Christian denominations.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes, I know.  I'm practically one myself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'their hope is that if they keep hammering the point that healthcare costs lots of money, it will become acceptable for americans to put down their aged parents.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the very reason why Romney has minimized the role of religion in this election cycle. He practically NEVER mentions his faith.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you seem unaware of the Baptists.  They're like a christian sect of the Muslim Brotherhood.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why should I care about a cult?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They exist, big whoop. And?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, normal christians believe that god is actually a god, an all-powerful being'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so why get so worked up over Mormonism?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you don't believe in an all-powerful god, is it really god?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so do the Mormons'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, trickle down economics "works", but if your goal is to put money in everyone's pockets it's terribly inefficient'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no, they believe that a god is finite, that it is one of many, and regular people can become gods themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'an attractive religion, no doubt...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who doesn't want to be a god?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Those concepts are difficult to reconcile with Bible texts, but should hardly be relevant for the election'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, they do not.  God is Ultimate.  Nobody gets to be on the same tier as God.  That doesn't mean that anyone not God is on equal footing with everyone else.  They've got a whole heirarchy of power ranging all the way from God on down to the ruler of the smallest speck of dust, and where you fall in that heirarchy is defined heavily by what you kick to the church and how well you lived the Mormon life.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's the key difference between Mormons and everyone else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'People that believe in God are dumb and people that don't believe in God are smart. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or you could say that the key difference is they have two extra books which they base their doctrines on :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'why is that Zaane?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'it cost you nothing to believe, so why not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Apparently I'm dumb. Oh well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Zaane doesn't realize that it's impossible to utterly not believe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Cause' if everybody got together every Sunday to feed the hungry or heal the sick instead of sitting in a room praising an idea, then the world would be fixed. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i think its dumb not to believe, but i agree its dumb to assume youre right'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Also, you cannot tell me what I believe, To do so is impossible and arrogant'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grumpy Old Oladon: 'Ah, but it does cost something.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'So there is no such thing as tithes anymore? Sorry I am out of the loop.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grumpy Old Oladon: 'Costs nothing to say you believe -- to truly believe it, though, costs a good deal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'buuusy!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'blah blah blah, you can jumble all kinds of poems and scriptures together to prove to yourself that God exists and if that puts a smile on your face as you fall asleep, then more power to you. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'mis, and I should go to sleep..'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Mormons tithe.  10% annual income is the minimum, with anything more than that buying you church access (under a certain amount, you don't even get to step foot in some temples) and afterlife position.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'God is a crutch to spread the blame of your existence around, is all'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I find that odd :) Not that I disagree about God being a crutch... But, there are only 3 people that can be blamed for your existence, your parents and you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Hey I have no problem if you believe in God and it is a large part of your life, but just know that I think you are less intelligent and weaker than someone that has a smaller part of his life dedicated to God'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Why do you think so Zaane?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Because, quite frankly, there are better ways to spend your time. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you are the judge of that :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: '...and your mind share'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you called Oladon arrogant...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Hey, you don't have to agree with me. It is just my opinion. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Such as? I mean prayer has a great powerful impact on people who pray a lot, usually for the better.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It brings meaning and wisdom to life, as you seek answers to lifes tough questions'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Yes, weaker people need constant reinforcement, so that makes sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'to countless millions'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I see, so someone who has a wife in the hospital and doctors telling him that there's no hope... they're weak for calling out to God for help?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, with all due to your republican mindset, November... using quantifiers is a fallacious justification.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Instead they should go read Norm Chomsky or Saul Alinsky instead'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'I have a PHD and I work in an engineering research position. Thinking about God would distract me from Life's tough questions. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Some day, Zaane you may be where those countless millions (billions) have been, you'll understand then I hope.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Noam Chomsky is a sell out. He, in fact, supports the status quo though he hides it behind obtuse prose.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's your denial talking, Zaane.  Nobody is able to simply not believe, you would literally go insane because your brain couldn't allow you to leave something unexplained.  This is why folk who believe in religion less always go for science or some other mundane alternative (ie, aliens).'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i dont understand why athiests dont just kill themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Because their is nothing else after life Modi, so they want to hang on to it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because they have just as much fervency in their beliefs as the "religious nutters" do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Modi - because life is >0, whereas an atheist believes death to be 0 (or null, as the case may be)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'atheists don't need martyrs, Modi. Those who believe in God do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not at all true, Ana.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Your opinions are all noted: if my wife was ill i would seek solutions that the doctor may not have thought of, Also just because I don't believe in God does not mean a cold beer does not taste good. Suicide is for the very weakest'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What I don't get is why people who are convinced heaven is waiting for them don't put themselves in dangerous situations all the time - sidestep the suicide rule, get into heaven sooner'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop confusing "Atheist" with "Irreligious".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why do you think so many religious nuts were willing to go to war?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'good point Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(and are)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i guess its the human condition'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grumpy Old Oladon: 'Vakieh: if you honestly wonder that, I'd be happy to discuss it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Historically, those who have died in battle defending their religious beliefs are called heroes. What about those on their side who have died defending their non-religious beliefs? Why aren't they also heroes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Believe me when you get to that point Zaane, seeking out more doctors when you are down to straws of hope - its not the course you take. You pray, hard. And that's just how billions have done it and found (at the very least) solace in it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'for the record I am a *#)#!&ist, don't look it up cause I invented it and only I can follow it. It is basically the golden rule. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It sounds like a smart move to me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna, the distinction is pointless semantics'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No it's not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Atheists do not believe in a Deity. The irreligious have no religion.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Far better to discuss the atheist/agnostic matrix'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the point of a religion is to live by the rules.  Failure to leave by the rules means you don't get the reward, and part of that reward comes in the form of earthly experience.  People don't suicide because, well, they might miss out on something.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Buddhists are, in fact, Atheists.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But they are NOT irreligious.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'we hang on for the people who care about us , yea?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna - the literal definition means that - practically speaking, nobody gives a shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's entirely the "someone on the internet is wrong!" spiel, except applied directly to real life.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'So, you are saying that a non-religious person, specifically an atheist, is by definition an immoral person. You must believe in God to be good to your neighbor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'confucianism: quit hoping for a powerful deity(ies) to get you out of holes and just climb up on your own already!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'My point is that both religious and non-religious people are good people, its just that religious people could be spending their time more productively... like aardwolf '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'dexx is god'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'from looking at history, the religious faction has caused more grief to humanity than those who haven't believed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a pointlessly selective scan of history.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I apologize to the heroic Crusaders, I also apologize to the heroic enforcers of the Inquisition. What was I thinking.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes, really.  You're lumping in several political movements that used religion as a cover (bait?) into the truly-religious bloc, and completely ignoring points when the roles were reversed (ie, when science ruled over religion).'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Religion acts as a multiplier on human nature, because religion propagates actions over large groups.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'The truth is that religions will die out in time as more and more generations realize there are better things to do, as it is already happening. So these arguments are of historical significance if anything at all (way to waste time between quests)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So instead of 1 person donating, 1000 people donate. Instead of 1 person maiming and killing, 1000...etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so now the Crusades and the Inquisition are political movements, that's a good one :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that would be the selective part I mentioned.  The whole of religious/non-religious conflict does not begin to be contained by merely the Crusades nor the Inquisition.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Interestingly enough, most religion has been under the complete control and use of political figures for thousands of years - Christianity could be better known as the 'Manufacturer of Divine Right', and the Bible is 'How to keep the serfs in line 101''
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it'd be like judging the entire Aardwolf playerbase by the actions of "butthurt Zibest" (as opposed to how Zibest acted before bumping heads with Lasher)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Hanslanda - there is NOTHING like religion when it comes to motivating people to risk their life for a leader.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people generally won't give you their lives to throw at your enemies unless they are promised 42 virgins/heaven/eternal life/whatever'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well... The Crusades caused the death of millions and the Inquisition the deaths of thousands... Your mud compression would come more closely to someone burning a cross on a Church's front yard. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or fame, fortune, or "a chance to make a difference in the world"'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'comparasion*'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and yet the comparisons are proportionally identical.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'It is true that atheists have caused grief, but they motivation were naked greed, not greed disguised as religious fervor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'We're talking net effect here - religion has good and bad effects, but the net is negative.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr rapidly nods twice at Vakieh, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as a panacea, religion is great, beyond that it sucks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Atheist get a lot of flack because people that can't NOT believe in God think they are crazy, when in actuality it is just that the Atheists are on a different plabe of thought. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'plane'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'no, you said plabe!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not even close, Zaane.  Everyone's in the same village, staring at the same elephant.  They are simply focused on different parts of it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, in many places, atheism is the norm and theist are considered weird.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'tomato tomato'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'religion isn't going away though... only the best can hold to their morals without believing that some great being will smack them if they get out of line'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point most ignored is that religious institutions are just that, institutions, which use "faith" as the excuse to advance their causes. Causes which usually end up filling their coffers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'basically, Science = Religion.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'internal motivation is hard'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Science does not equal religion, unless you can pull up a test for God?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi . o O ( god is falsifiable? )
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, science can be thought of a religion, within the precise meaning of "religion".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm wondering why both Obama and Romney spent so much ad money on DC. I know its near Virginia, maybe thats why? http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/debates/second-presidential-debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is about questions - religion hands unproven, untestable, unevidenced answers, science hands something quite the opposite'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'people infer gods and other constructs when they hear the word "religion", but that is quite a narrow interpretation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'DC is about as much in the Obama tank and Texas is in Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can, actually.  God can do anything, which is the essential core of belief.  What can Science do?  Currently, we can definitively say it can do this, this, and that based on a particular set of rules, but we never rule out that the set of rules can change (ie, expand to make more things possible).'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Hanslanda, so can mages and witches. So why not worship them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's always the hope and the drive for the next big breakthrough.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Wow, I can't believe Obama spent $215 million so far on ads.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what makes you think they are not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mages and witches are as real as god, it would take the same type of proof to make them real :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Celtic belief, after all, is basically centered around such things.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'as is the Wiccan ethos.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ancient religions dealt with the real, earth, wind, fire, and water. Their mysticism was centered around the possible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Lol, the Libya question is imploding on Obama now. WOAH! someone said BULLSHIT on FNC on it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why not worship me? Or anaristos?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I thought shit was a word they dont use on cable news'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Anaristos can grant you eternal life! Just don't ask me to prove it...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its 8pm west coast.......'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the contradiction is too obvious.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and who was it that cut embassy security funding, I wonder...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the Libya question? Are you dense enough to blame him for the what happened in Libya? Are you so dense that you haven't asked yourself why were to mercs targeted for assassinations?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '2 mercs*'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Anaristos, remember ... debates are not about facts. Presentation, style, the way you come off.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'presidential debates that is'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'I ate a banana and it had a big bruise on it and I could not eat that part. I blame it on Obama's foreign policy. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one party has been consistently trying to wreck the country to make the incumbent look bad. If you want those guys to make your decisions, well...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No one believes a politician tells the truth heh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, obviously you think style is worth more than substance. You rather vote for a better speaker, even if he speaks lies, rather than vote for someone who stutters the truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, maybe Chris Christie.. but ... nah not even then'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Hey, a lot of people did in 2008 didn't they? Obama Hope and Change was a great orator tactic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It worked on many levels'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I have to hand it to him, he did a good job with that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'and because look at the other option'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wish the US would have the decency to wait for another major democratic power to emerge *before* starting to destroy themselves...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Right, its perception Modi. I think you're actually agreeing with me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and how many died in Iraq between 2001 and 2008? Who can we blame for that? Oh, but wait, we are talking about the death of wogs, so it doesn't count... sorry.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even though obama's pretty crappy, he did save the world from the alternative...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'obviously, there are some who rather have the alternative :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos points excitedly at Romney on November!
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, alternate histories aside. Neither of these guys were particularily truthful. Who wins is presentation. No one remembers facts from debate 1. They do remember Obama looking listless.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'This one they're going to remember how offensive each one was on each other.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, the number of us combat losses increased throughout the bush terms, and only started coming down recently.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he gets bent out of shape because 2 mercenaries got killed in Libya, and sheds no tears for all the Irqui who have died since the US arrived. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'something like 6 times as many US casualties occurred since Obama officially took office than occurred in all of Bush's two terms.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Not that Libya was a lie or not a lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i thought they were gonna fight'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'that wouldve been awesome'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Exactly. Thats what people will remember, tweet about etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, ok, how many is that in numbers, November? Is it 100K, 200K, 500K? Let's compare how many the invading US troops lost to the number of native casualties.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i think romney would win in a fight'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama looks like he might be quicker...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Leaner, .. like a joe frasier'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'hes a smoker though'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Romney would not win in a fight, he would stay behind the lines.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Romney would move to France.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The first thing Romney would check if he got elected is how are the shelters around DC'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I forget the numbers, but under bush the US death toll was like 600ish and maybe 2000ish wounded.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Anaristos, facts or numbers about things in the past .. about another presidency.. mean even less... '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Or claim his religion prohibits fighting, forgetting all about Mountain Meadows Massacre.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and how many Iraqui civilians died viz a viz the 600ish and 2000ish?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's because the number of casualties rose dramatically during bush, and only came down during obama1'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i went to mormon church as a kid, got in plenty of fights'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the rate is only higher over obama's term because it kept increasing over the previous years'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i might be frowned upon, but so is teen pregnancy'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you people are still ignoring the death of Irqui civilians. Obviously, being non-entities, they don't count.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Not all people who follow a religion are good followers, some are quite bad. But, I think everyone here points to the negative things too much. I think by far (not even close) the amount of good done by many religions (not all) far outweighs the outlying negative actions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'You keep believing that, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Because if it was really more negative than good, people wouldn't really follow it. Yet, billions do. So, theres some good behind it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'people followed Jones into death, November. People just like to fallow any well told fantasy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I will, because you don't hear the stories of all the people who have used their faith to the good - ... '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Delusion is not good, but it is the reason for religion.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'US casualties?  Sorry, Sonshi, but no.  the 600/2000 were over 8 years (two entire presidential terms).  We haven't even gotten through one yet with Obama, and he's had a little bit more than 9-11 in terms of US deaths.  Wounded (casualties separate from deaths) climbed up to at least 20k before Obama stopped releasing numbers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'About how a nun in Africa has to drive through dangerous roads and jungles every day to deliver medicine because her faith called her to that in life.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's not the point, November. The point is that people don't need to be "religious" to do good. All they need to be is moral.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'About how people who pray in times of need find solace, thousands of times'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are the figures'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'millions or even billions of times, countless as the stars'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Praying is wasted time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, I think on this we'll just have to agree to disagree. But, I'm sure I have many more people who agree with me than you do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they've been declining over obama, while increasing over bush'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The Iraqui prayed, November, and they kept dying...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Just because you pray doesn't mean you are not going to suffer.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, from 2002, the first full year of war, they had 30, while in 2008 they had 153. In 2009 it increased to 310.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, it can help you find meaning in everything that is happening to you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'False meaning, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'everyone prays i think'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'whether they realize or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it peaked at 496 in 2010, and dropped in 2011, and looks like it will be under 300 for 2012'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh sure, prayer comes in many many forms.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I've never prayed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ah, ok, so praying doesn't actually get you anything. Prayer won't stop an M-16 from turning you into a sieve. '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I have tried to influence the quantum state of my existance, though, but it did not work either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'having thought and questions that you dwell on?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'For example, St Frances de Sales discussed in his book The Devout Life how people can pray passively just by observing'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because that's another fantasy, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yup.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Had to give it a try, Scott Adams had some interesting ideas.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'under bush, casualty rate multiplied 5 times. Under obama, it's on course to be lower than his first year...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you miss the point, November. Prayer may cause certain cohesion among people, but the same cohesion can be obtained without it, at less cost. If you need mass hypnosis to bring the people together you are in for a rude awakening when they snap out of it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and if you count only KIA (leaving out accidents, etc.) the difference is even greater...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The simple way to lower casual rates is to stop the wars. For both sides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'your quantum state already exists (all of them).  They are forced into existence when they are observed.  One theory states that all quantum states are decided when just one state is observed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Exactly how will we stop wars?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Just leave.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'we stop wars by killing all humans'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You can stop any way where you are the aggressor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think that's shortsighted. The world runs on a global economy now. Stability is very important for prosperity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'war*'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea, make the generals actually kill people, but they'd prob kill their own first'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what prayer and other devices actually do is to make the brain bypass the analytical centers, and while that can be beneficial for specific applications it is not a good way to archive long term goals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Simply saying I'll stay home and out of everything is an isolationist policy that the US tried, but didn't work out so well. Japan even tried it for nearly 250 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It makes even less sense today.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'religion is great for those who live to serve others. In a sense, anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, don't bring Japan into this. Or have you forgotten the Open Door Policy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US and its allied planted warships in Tokyo bay and told the Japanese "trade or die".'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'or miss on purpose., like the giant in 'the princess bride''
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'From 1608? to 1853? Japan was very isolated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that might be whye isolationism failed In Japan, don't you think?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Then iron clad warships showed up and they wanted to catch up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, they wanted to be left alone, But the US, France, England and Russia wanted their markets open.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, isolationism fails because others will cause you to fail...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so much for sovereignty '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yep, and they are the world's 3rd largest economy now Anaristos, and good friends of the USA and a very prosperous and better people for it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like how if the US had tried to remain neutral in WW2, we'd all have been really screwed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really? Can you bet on that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You seem to think colonialism was all bad to the colonized.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It depicts the events all wrong, and with the wrong people - but The Last Samurai shows a very real vision of the move Japan made from Isolationist to Expansionist, as well as WHY it happened'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The US stays at home and Germans conquer Europe. End of war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It wasn't. In fact, the USA was a colony and it worked out OK for us too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the US had remained completely neutral and kept selling japan oil, there'd be no pearl harbour, china would have capitulated, and the USSR split between the nazis and japan'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Interestingly enough, and for very different reasons, the US made similar changes over the course of the World Wars'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if insane Hitler would told its troops to pack up and go fight a war across the Atlantic, he would have been shot where he stood.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually even the highly colonized / broken up China and India. Heck, all the best economies in the world now: were colonies to someone else at some point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'November - that is because Europe broke itself over WWI and II'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the US falling would have become just a matter of time, once the combined axis industrial might exceeded the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'China predates its colonizers, though, and so does India.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'hitler prob lost control years before he off'd himself'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Hitler was on Speed, as I recall a certain documentary'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'by the time they were colonized their empires had waned, and the conquerors were upstarts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'True, but the "barbarian" cultures caught up and surpassed China. Then China changed its mind. It worked out OK for them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Although the Mao period was really a tough one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, actually the colonizers of China, became sinophiles.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the nazis wouldn't even have had to send anyone over initially, they just rain icbms until the us capitulated, or ended its isolation (and then lost)'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they had waited for too long, the outcome would have been decided for them'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Japan's culture was changed by the Chinese, not the other way around. So was British culture changed by the Hindu.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i bet chinese history is fascinating and gruesome, but you dont see that on history channel'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why would you see that on the history channel? Aren't they a propaganda channel for the "western" way of life?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'largely secretive i bet'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Chinese history is bloody. But so is eveyone else's history.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'may I remind you of Wounded Knee, for instance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'china's collapses has a few similarities with the current american situation... political infighting, an upper class that cared less and less about the common people, economic mismanagement...'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well history channel seems mostly to be about hitler, as i recall'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Antarctica is relatively blood free.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure, if you don't count the penguins.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, we don't know what happened when Antarctica was green, Vakieh :) '
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we know enough that there probably wasn't a Dino Emperor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Antarctica was a place people visited but didn't stay. It was rather a long row from any mainland.'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'i think you mean that we know that there probably was'
T3/r7/2012-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'doubt we'd ever know if the Aurellians used it as a campground, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'something constructive here ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Don't get a flu shot, you dont need it and it is a fake. They are soft killing us.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you discount the placebo effect imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hey Snookums :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sugar water would be more effective a flu shot though ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'No its not the placebo, flu shots give you the flu'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stimulate the immune system to produce antibodies - I get the theory '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it still has a hormetic effect; they're just putting other trash in it'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hormetic - define ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'hormesis: deliberate undermining to stimulate growth'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'think lifting weights'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'opposite of homeostasis - ur a quick study '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'problem is they take advantage of open-body access that a vaccine provides and lace vaccinations with shit like squalene and mercury, which makes us sick'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'aqualene ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'squalene '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sounds a lil paranoid - FDA approve drugs like that ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'don't tell me you believe in the FDA :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'am Oz - not even remotely connected - but ok thought the wowsers had got some form of transparence '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I suppose they do the right thing as long as the drug doesn't come from Eli Lilly :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Eli Lilly ? who ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The "FDA" are former board members of the very same private-sector firms they are tasked to regulate'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'lots of regulation goin on when they're in bed with each other'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Welcome - Pfizer , monsanto ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '- oh that is disappointing - but stranglehold grip is it ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'corperate gene pool is pretty shallow in the US imo .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The FDA is basically Monsanto, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You know, the ones who brought you Agent Orange, and now GMO foods'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'short memories people have'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tzad, google Agent Orange and look at the images'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Monsanto has stations n farms here over a barrel - roundup ready seed .. that and the duopoly of supermarkets - primary production for food has about a 3% gain on investmeent .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have heard of agent orange - defoliant that causes congenital defects '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'used in Nam'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'used in Vietnam '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '40 years later, apparently Monsanto now has a good track record, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not like they'd poison you with GMO foods, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah I hung out abit at Alices RSL '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not like Bill Gates, a known eugenicist, would support Monsanto in a bid to push GMO foods to poor countries like Africa, right'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What insane reason would they have for poisoning people with GMO foods?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'they hate minorities, frankly'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, it's that simple'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'really ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I can only find the usual cospiracy theory nutter webpages when searching for "Bill gates eugenics".'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I know a lot of hard core racists and none have mentioned Monsanto .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A "known eugenicist"? By whom? You and your ilk?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'start with daddy first, where he got all his money'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I understand your point Yuna, but you'll never find mainstream media that says anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'are there any good bits of Eugenics ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rupert Murdoch owns all the media; you won't find a "real" source that says anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In other words, in your mind "known" means "My conspiracy blogs say so".'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I love my race and I'm not going to breed with someone who will give me defective genes to pass on - is that Eugenics ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'eugenics is deliberate culling of the gene pool, since humans have no predators'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'think 3rd Reich'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eugenics is the practice of trying to supress or prevent people with less acceptable genetics traits to breed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sources for that Bill Gates supports that? I'll even take your crackpot conspiracy blogs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok I'm not deliberatly kulling - just being selective '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I just wanna see what they're saying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, the facts are the facts; they're everywhere and can be individually verified   http://occupycorporatism.com/bill-gates-eugenicist-extraordinaire/'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So you know, I didn't start "like this" if you think'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you uncover one stone, then another, then another, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The English language vehemently disagrees with your definition of the word "fact"'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm not going to breed with a black - I kile white - is that supressing or just excersising choice '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"It's written on a conspiracy site/blog with no actual sources" =/= fact.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'like *'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, for the love of... so he's an eugenicist for getting in volved with the vaccine industry?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A fact is that they openly support vaccinations'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you're one of THOSE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'as an example'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'vaccines are now poisoned'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'those ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Vaccination is evil! It's used by the government to control and poison the populus!'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wah wah wah!'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'don't believe it, look at the data'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'rising autism, etc. directly correlated to vaccination increase'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'newborns here are given upward of 70 shots'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'also rising detection dur to increased vigilance ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I mean in the U.S., not Sweden; it may not be apparent there'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I stopped reading after the first 3 points. So Bill Gates is allegedly a proven eugenicist because: 1) He's sinking moning into geo-engineering projects (?!?!?!?). 2) He's a support of vaccination. 3) Again with the vaccines.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'just like Hitler...'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'posotive Eugenics my be a good thing imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, the starting sentence of that pathetic excuse for an article pretty much said "Planned Parenthood is all about eugenics! Bill Gates is an eugenicist because his dad was head of Planned Parenthood!" (at least that's what I think it says, since it actually says "William Gates, II who has the head of Planned Parenthood".'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Gates has flat-out said that he will use vaccines as a vehicle to curb world population'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '90% of that "article" seems to be about how vaccination is all about eugenics and poisoning people. Yeah, sure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'PP is actually Margaret Sanger; you should read about her believes'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where, DosseT? Where does he say that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the world population needs curbing imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'beliefs'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Source, even your crackpot sources, for Bill Gates stating he'll use vaccination to stem the world population.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Let's use Bill Gates as the source'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Refer to Bill gates" is not a proper argument. Show us a quote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not sure he is stupid enuf to say that outright '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl_C2F4KVJE'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, that doesn't look doctored at all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the FUCK is there a picture about CO2 up there when he's speaking about vaccines and eugenics?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the point is to hear it from the source'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'context - I would have to see the whole argument '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't even see Bill Gates' face for the first part of that. It's a paste job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Bill Gates could show up in your room and tell you his plans, and you'd invent an excuse to deny'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's strange how there's a random picture put up there to block out Bill Gates for half of that video.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that's for sound bytes; text quotes are all over the place'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'where do you think his 'eugenicist' moniker came from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'me?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If by "all over the place" you mean "On my crackpot blogs".'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rupert Murdoch owns the establishment ones; "crackpot"'s all you got'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo eugenics aint all bad anyway - we want to curb the amount og genetically inherited dificencies imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'eugenics is curbing based off of what they want; not about curbing deficiencies'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or rather: you are the deficiency'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I don't want mongolism in my kids - so not breeding with a mongol? chromasome 21 defect .. OK'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'more like: "non-Aryans are sub-human, so eliminate all the mongrels"'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if that is eugenics - I'm pro eugenics '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'eugenics isn't about gene quality'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'objectively'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I love my race - why would I taint my childeren ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'what do you do when someone says Aryans are the mongrels? it's relative'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'don't really matter I like White - is subjective - not breeding with another race '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'most people prefer homogeneity; that's not what eugenics is'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'define homogeneity ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you have been busy :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'same'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'define homogeneity ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'single race or something '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'uniform'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it means like prefers like; preferences/phenotypes tend to stay uniform'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll breed with another white and if there eyes are not as blue as mine or thier hair is fairer than mine I'll love em anyway  but I will teach em to be proud of our skin colour - not at the exclusion of anothers just what the white race has accieved / stuffed up '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.gatesfoundation.org/vaccines/Pages/overview.aspx'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There is their declaration, as fact, Yuna; up to you what you believe about vaccines themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the human population should decrease  imo - '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Former news reporters expose Monsanto: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LasLilZi9GM'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'This is the real deal, man'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'they got fired, they tried to pay them off to shut up, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there is no argument that big buisness has a stranglehold on the mass media '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'mass media IS big business'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a tautology - yes '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'are we the "undercurrent" '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'look at your consumer habits and say yea or nay '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, the myth of consumer choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'capatilism is a demorcacy - is $1 a vote imo - don't vote for those corperations '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'right, absolute monarchy is a democracy, one king one voite'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'correct me mate ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem is that it is often difficult to have meaningful choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, for example, I can choose which airline to fly on. Except that I can't because where I want to fly from and where I want to fly to, pretty much defines who I fly with'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol trust me I am outside normal social considerations - on eof the blessings of being clinically insane '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'of course, I could choose to fly from somewhere else and to somewhere else, but then that is not really a meaningful choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'get on ur bike n ride ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I'm live on an Island'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I do too - Australia '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yuna gets proven wrong, disappears from debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Snook - not a great look mate - engourage deb pls ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not about winning, ultimately'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'about sharing'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'gimme a runto from recall n I'll be there for a drink tho '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the fuck did I get proven wrong?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LasLilZi9GM'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obviously doctored bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That picture wasn't there originally. It's not even of the same picture quality as the rest of that stream!'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It was placed there to cover up the fact that that's a cut and paste job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LasLilZi9GM is Monsanto being exposed by former TV reporters'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yuna, disappears.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How does that prove that Bill Gates supports eugenics?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Also show her the gatesfoundation link DosseT'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never once touched Monsanto.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Way to go allegedly proving a point I never debated against!'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the conclusion with Gates is simply that the Foundation articulated their goals; what you believe about vaccines will ultimately decide your stance about the Foundation'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Go live in the woods and hope not to catch any vaccine-able diseases.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is a statistical connection between the polio vaccine and prostate cancer...'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If that's true, they clearly did it on purpose.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Correct: that's Merck, though'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How would that even help in eugenics? Did they specific target people they didn't want to breed when giving out the polio vaccine, giving them special extra prostate cancery vaccines?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't believe back then was for eugenics; simply experimenting with what they could get away with'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Also polio vaccines gave a shitload of indians polio'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the monkeys they used for the polio vaccine creation back in the 1950s are reputed to have suffered from SIV-80'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yuna you should get a David Copperfield act in Vegas'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Also 9/11 was an inside job'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'That bored Snook ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah, I really should have brought up something thats actually debateable. 9/11 was an inside job. No debate possible'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I heard it was the Jews'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Define '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Define "the jews"'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'whether or not it was an inside job is not that important'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'compared to the response to it'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean Galtieri really did invade the Falklands, Thatcher really did use this for her own purposes'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'who what ? that was decades ago ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Barack Obama is a flippy booby bibbidy president who needs to come dry cleaning about the truth'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the advantage with things that happened ages ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'is that we often know better what actually happened, than things that happened short time ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'to young to remember it - only know the Falk war showed soldier training disparity an AV-88 harrier landing gear fails imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soldier training dovetails into - break the "cannot kill own species" wiring - the pomms had - the argentines had not '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and you cannot land the harrier on uneven ground - or even even ground if you are a Pom fighter pilot .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'RAF fail .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm a pclass T7 lvl 162 Barbarian. I have Ironfist at lvl 1.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jill Stein arrested trying to enter the latest leader debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gallup: R51% O46%'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'huge protests as students take to the street in Madrid, Spain, against austerity and the 50% unemployment rate'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That will give them more jobs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada crosses his arms and nods slowly and sagely.
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Global warming stopped in 1997" says met-office study'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would, if they actually manage to change the minds of their leaders! ... fat chance of that'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their leaders cannot change, they're in the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they have sovereignty'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I don't think you understand the nuances of the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What they mean is no detectable warming trend since 98-ish, I guess.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they can always default... it'd be bad, but not that bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are broke, if they take a bailout, the EU parliament (well germany) essentially dictate their fiscal policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they default, they leave the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'How do you create more jobs in Spain, then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they do need to leave the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Greece needed to'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they can dictate all they like, but there's nothing stopping them from taking the money, running, and saying "err.. sorry, we tried to follow the plan... really!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Debt reset and money printing won't create more jobs, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than sanctions'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or just straight out defaulting'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'invasion'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and other stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ho ho... invasion. Sanctions. Of spain??'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, some more jobs, obviously :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Where is Obama's detailed plan hiding?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'default, nationalisation, reorganisation, and reprivatisation'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Sonshi, that's what happens to countries that defy the globalists'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'll admit I didn't spend much time searching, but his campaign website seemed to have, well, bullet points mostly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'his and Romney's eloped to vegas.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'shouldn't take more than 5-10 years...'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did you think of the presidential wanker debats?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh sure, like anyone invaded argentina over their default'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have not seen the debate yet.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or iceland'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be called "Who wants to be a dictator?"'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't default, they haven't got the balls'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think Yuna gets entirely too worked up over them, and probably needs to masturbate feverishly to work off all that tension.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was left extremely underimpressed by the show'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they probably won't, but that's not my point...'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was a bit better than the last one, but was still extremely short on policy, especially from Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was policy from Romney, but no detail'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'beyond that, I don't watch the debates.  Maybe I would if they weren't campaigning for so long, but I find it especially pointless to watch candidates argue with each other for a few hours when I've been listening to them argue and proclaim for a year or more already.'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK police taser blind man using a cane, mistake cane for samuarai sword'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'UK cops as the lower-class twits'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel considering military intervention in Syria over chemical weapons'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'convenient, since Syria threatened to use them if invaded'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is that an empty threat by Syria due to inability of delivery or a valid option'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a typical Israel/US excuse for invading another country'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'See Iraq 2003'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yeah, the USA wants another debt load from another invasion'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, that's what they're gearing up for'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe the USA is earning money from those invasions'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the military industrial complex certainly is'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and lets face it, between them, pharma, and the global banks, they make up the NWO'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those rich of the USA military industrial complex get richer, while saddling the USA with a bigger tax burden,  and those getting rich by the warmogering model prefer to avoid paying taxes, prefering that the poor do with far less instead, while some of the poor provide menial labour and soldiers, and the rest of the poor .. simply stay poor'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty much the NWO plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why Europe government signed onto derivative debts that were not their own'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all part of the plan to dispossess and enslave the people'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'derivative debts of mass economic destruction'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wealth-generators of mass debt, you mean?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that the ?USA? with those corrupt unregulated derivatives declared war against the other nations of the planet'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many of the perpetrator corporations were American, but it was a global scale scam'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the economic and political leaders of those other nations in their clueless greed went along with the derivatives scam'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the icelanders look like mental-retards, the icelandic government force-selling the dna rights of the icelanders, then losing their monies in the financial meltdown'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the icelanders refused to sign onto their banks derivatives'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yet seems that the Icelanders sold their dna-rights for a pittance'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'soul-rights, dna-rights .. may  be similar'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what that means'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps the soul is in the dna'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally agree that a centralised dna database is a severe infringement of privacy'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, there are others that people seem to go along with obliviously without the objection it should receive'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a centralised dna database may be an adjunct to a police state'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN paper by Professor Ignacy Sachs, implemented by nations of the UN calls for birth control, the economic downgrading of the west and north, and a reduction in population through war. He also advocates global taxation adminstered at a Global Government level'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with a centralised dna database to which everybody is forced to contribute, when dna-evidence from crime scenes is compared to that database, some "crimes" may be solved faster'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and thus the devil's work is known by the name "Agenda 21"'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so what does that make it when you have a dozen (voluntary) dna databases?'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what ethnicity is this "Professor Ignacy Sachs" advocator of population reduction through wars'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Polish'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Polish Jew, and a support of communism'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'indicative of the lovely sorts of people we have running the planet'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the irony is that the Nazis in WWII did in advance to the polish, jews, communists, what Professor Ignacy Sachs the "polish jew communist" is currently suggesting '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the robotic technology in the film "Bladerunner" and the tvseries "Total Recall" is reminiscent of the direction of remote war technologies -- using robotics to hunt down and kill humans'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Total Recall 2070'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whole slabs of the centre and right of media are slating the debate, and mainly the woman in charge for screwing it up'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'the next sentence is true'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'the previous sentence was false'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'this was in the internet'
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you broke my bot :-( '
T3/r7/2012-10-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'thats only good. for mud'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Bill Clinton today, 'When President Obama looked into the eyes of that man who said in the debate, I had so much hope four years ago and I don't now, I thought he was going to cry' -- he's just a loose cannon isn't he. Secretly I think he wants Romney to win so Hillary can storm the Ds back in 2016.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, USA spends $11 for every $7 it raises in tax. It's beating the UK that was spending #4 for every #3'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'US just needs to fix its tax code.  Getting away with 15% on capital gains while wage earners are paying more is absurd.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney intends scrapping capital gains for all below $250k a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'm unsure whether to scrap it altogether, or treat capital gains as regular income'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'd say regular income, maybe bump up the amount you can earn before paying tax across all income'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my manifesto sees the simplification of the tax system (UK's is over 1000 pages long) and the abolishment of all tax credits and allowancse'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much instantly wipes out the majority of fraud and tax minimisation'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I think that'd work for a lot of people.  Just take the "standard deduction", raise it up, and eliminate the whole itemized deductions thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, no deduction'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'Standard deduction basically keeps you from taxing people in the poverty level'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be taxed too'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'makes more sense then turning around and spending more on them in welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are already, disproportionately'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'you just effectively make like 0-25000 or whatever 0% income tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All you'll do is eliminate the middle class...which is the goal anyways'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't want to do that, that's where all your money comes frmo'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'negative'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20% tax rate from 0 to 52k gbp a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '40% from >52'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20% sales tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'proportionally, most of our income comes from the wealthy'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They come from the working middle class'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'capital gains, inheritance treated as income'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'who pay income transfers to the bottom-feeders'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'who so remain, because it's incentivized'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20% sales tax on all new products and commercial services, property purchases. Citizens get a rebate for the first property in their portfolio'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like to pay every adult a "citizens allowance", tax free, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'now your back to deductions :P  but that one is tremendously helpful to the middle class'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no deductions!'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but you just said...'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no deductions to tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'only diff between a citizens allowance and a tax break on your first x dollars income is the latter benefits workers over non-workers'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be the case if welfare didn't exist, taokan'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's not'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'stepping out, bb in 10'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by giving all adults a citizens allowance, it's a method of giving welfare without discriminating against workers'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also extremely low overheads'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I hear you, EIC kinda attempts to do that today, but it's convoluted, and most people don't really understand it'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'current system is insanely beurocratic'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and totally skewed, and entirely fails to do what it's supposed to'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that element would cost 130bn gbp a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, your tax take would fly up'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd also significantly reduce fuel duty, as well as ring fencing it, replacing car tax with a per-mile charge'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'likewise ringfence it'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'A marriage should be between one man and a binder full of women.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: '*giggle*'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'better that being between a man and his favorite hand or pet.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So we are in agreeance, then? Max = 6sol, 4ill, 3res?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'seems like the industry standard'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I say 4 ill, because I count 2wis 2luck as an ordinary max ill'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And resonate is a special case, because 2luck 1stat, or 1luck 2stat, I would count as max - but if you get those split ones it's best to declare them specifically, as they often sell higher.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama called the death of 4 Americans "not optimal"... wow, that's just insulting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If that doesn't do him in, I just dont know what level he'd have to stoop to..'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, considering that they were cia ops, they are trying to make the incident casual. They don't want people to start  asking what were those people doing there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, maybe. Obama made a big deal about how much those deaths meant to him in the debate, knowing the families, greeting the coffins, etc. and then he goes on comedy TV and makes light of the fact that Americans died.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he'd have to stoop pretty low.  He openly said he was gonna bankrupt coal and then proceeded to sort-of deliver on that promise.  Imagine how many jobs that covers, for an energy source that (at the time) provided most of our energy needs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I can't even imagine the outrage if Romney said that, it would be the 47% x10.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for just 4 people, though, it's kind of overreacting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you have an unstable zone, so what were they doing there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I thinking making light of any american that dies, especially in service to the country, is insulting. These people gave their lives for a punchline in a comdey show'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, yes, that's true :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'What were they doing there without the right amount of protection?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I know why they were there, we are trying to stabilize Libya and you need an ambassador there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you know, I get sick of that crap, November. The US shows very little respect for other people that die, so if this time it showed little respect for 4 citizens, then at least you know that they are not bigoted :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I assume by the US you mean the US Federal Government?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'besides, you want to act as if they were victims, they most likely scenario is that they got caught and executed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Many US citizens care about the deaths of many people around the world..'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but they do nothing to stop their deaths, let me point you to Viet Nam and Iraq. Easily over 1M people dead at the hands of the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They were assaulted. They were a peaceful group of people trying to bring peace to a country in turmoil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes and over 2 million Cambodians died when the US left too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's practically the end of the world when more than a handful of people die in one event here.  We overreact to killings to the point of hilarity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who, the to ex-seals working as mercenaries in an unstable  zone? Are you that naive?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they were caught and executed'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The Libyan ambassador was caught and executed, let me see if I got that right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Is that what your stance is?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what, do you think that ambassadors don't run cia ops?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '"ambassador" is a job description, it doesn't add any character to the holder of the title. Neither you nor I know what he was doing there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm not sure with that opinion there's anything I can say in response thats worth it. In your opinion, everythign the US seems to do is always bad, wrong, evil, immoral, corrupt and devastating against sentience.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'very accurate description november'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, news flash for you, the USA has been much better for the world than whatever it has done wrong for it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And I guess that's just something you'll never really see.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'You are saying that because the man was an ambassador he didn't do anything in Libya that they Libyan would consider objectionable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That he should be executed for, and the President of the USA to make fun/light of it on a talk show'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am saying that while I have no evidence to the fact I can not discount it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'I suppose that americans are like the romans in that old times'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are a rabid anti-Obama (and who knows why?) so when you say that the president made light of the incident, I take that with a grain of salt.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'you tell me if the romans didnt go and do pillage rape and murder... Same thing now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I guess thats why so many liberals don't care about the offensive stuff Obama says, they just think America is terrible, so its OK to make fun of terrible things. You get a republican up there, says one comment poorly and boom! holy crap. This double standard is saying things.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Honestly, whenever any act of terror is committed against anyone, its a bad thing and the people who died shouldn't be made fun of.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ShenDragon: 'the double standard goes both ways...I just find it amusing that we seem to think a two party system is the way it was supposed to be'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you say the the world is a better place because of the US? Were you off-planet the last 40 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ShenDragon: 'I would like to see it go back to the no party system where people ran on their own merits, morals, and ideals instead of trying to make their party happy'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'some people has benefited from the US, no doubt. But the world in general? I don't think so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well again I'm assuming you mean the entire USA, its people and the government right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I can't tell you how much foreign aid, help and assistance Americans have given for thousands of causes and countries to sue for peace and prsoperity of others.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'since the 60s the US has carried out more armed aggression that any other country except during the world wars, which they were part of.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And all the conflicts that were stopped because of our strength.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the ambassador was well liked by the locals, and was as far as we can tell, doing a good job over there. Blaming people who did not have much control over the situation is rather cheap'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The US is famous for supporting fascist governments to attain their goals, telling the people under those regimes to go fuck themselves.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we were latecomers to both world wars.  In both cases, our allies whined about getting their asses kicked.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and your point, Haslanda?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Hanslanda, WWI was won well before the US entered'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They simply hastened things along'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the US had no obligation to act against their interests... they only joined when it was clear they'd be next. Can't blame them for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for WW2, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I wasn't referring to the US activities during the world wars, I merely pointed out the the US has engaged in more armed aggression since any country during the world warls.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wars*'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'next what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, its about interest. Interest in not having a radical left-wing Facist government dominate the world. Stopping the Soviet Union oppressing the people of Eastern Europe. THere's a lot of people who are a lot better off today because of what was done by the USA and its people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'next to get screwed, if they didn't help the allies beat back the axis'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in neither world war the US  homeland was at risk, not discounting Pearl Harbor (though it wasn't part of the homeland then and it was a provoked attack).'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(imagine if they had happily sold oil to japan and just watched as china got overrun)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, but our friends were. And you stick up for friends in tough situations to fight real evil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Otherwise you'll end up alone, friendless.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't seriously think that if Hitler would have conquered Europe he would have gone through the logistic nightmare of attacking in the American continent? He would have been assassinated by his generals if he tried.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it was pretty clear that if japan whacked china (quite possible without the embargo) and germany held a line closer to their homeland, the tide would turn against the allies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You think Europe would be better off if the USA never did a thing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it wouldn't be hitler that'd be the one attacking, probably.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Under that left-wing Fascist government that created a Holocaust of unbelievably immoral activity'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The Germans had no reason to attack the US. Many in the US actually sympathized with Germany.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it'd be the one that acquired a large colony next door which it could industrialise rapidly, arm a large population, and which had very good ships.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Hitler liked the US - Japan didn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah for a while, but that changed. I've read "Americans in Hitlerland" and let me tell you it changed for them, they lived there during it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a chinese capitulation would have threatened the US' very existence, if it just sat on its hands.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, the Nazi party was starting to get peeved by the American Nazi movement.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Japan had a) a grudge against the US and b) an actual fear that the US was going to attack them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If Japan had attacked the USSR through Siberia instead of Pearl Harbour, the world would be a very different place'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually Japanese Generals and Admirals knew they would lose if they attacked the USA. They went into it knowing it would not work out. The leadership of the country still did it though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if the US fleet had not made a wrong turn at Midway that gave them the victory the world would have been a different place.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They had flown over the west coast of the USA, seen the ship yards and the economy. '
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No it wouldn't have.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Say what November? They very nearly won - Midway swings the other way, and boom, bye bye US'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You should see the statistics of production. Near the end of the war we had more destroyers at one point than they had planes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It was very lop-sided. It wasn't even a close fight.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if china capitulated, and the axis finished off the USSR, the US would be next in another decade or two. Of course, realistically speaking, they'd have intervened long before then, no matter how isolationist'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No offense to Japanese players, I actually love Japan and its people and prize our good relationships.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, that was another time, something we should forgive and forget.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as the US entered when it did, their victory was pretty much assured due to the large industrial might of the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the story would've been different if china had been abandoned...'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the govt at the time probably recognised that they didn't really have a choice in the matter of war or peace.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they could've saved themselves a lot of trouble (and lives!) if they had started arming themselves sooner though...'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'by WW2, most of the armed services lacked combat experience.  You can't really change that quickly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The US did the world a big favor in that war, period. I just cant get over this "evil" America thing, America is always bad. Man, that's just so depressing to live like that. Its not true.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they did no one any favours... they did it for themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not specific to the US.  The attitude is always expressed towards whomever has the controlling interest in global politics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just like any other of the allies in the war'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hah, pretty soon the US is going to be completely north american energy self sufficient.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I wish I could ask the soldiers who stormed the beaches of Normandy that question Sonshi, if they thought this was a selfish act by America to look out for itself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US is already up to 80% north american energy self sufficient, with 65% coming from the US itself.....oil is booming on private lands....obama needs to ppen up govt land to resource extraction.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But I guess this explains the lack of outrage when Obama makes light of four Americans, serving their country, now dead. And that was my original question.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it sure isn't the best motivation...'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So I guess thats what I asked for, heh. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'since when did he make light of them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'On the Daily Show'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'suuure'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It isnt an optimal solution'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its not actually funny at all. The right answer was, "these people died for this country Jon, and shouldn't ever be made fun of"'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe you're just uninformed of the subtleties of diplomatese...'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas is going to be supplying 2 million barrels a day in a year or two with the explosion of new west texas oil, and oil shale in southern texas...'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'A non-sequitur, sure but Jon can recover :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'north dakota has gone from producing less than 100k barrels a day to almost 600k barrels a day in less than 4 years.  It will double that in 3 more years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil shale in eastern montana will be producing another 200k barrels by next year, as will arkansas and lousianna'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hopefully soon the US will start exporting lng to the UK, and bring down their natgas costs to a reasonable price.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That is probably true Rizgoth. Exporting LNG is a next boom sector of the economy. I'm invested in it :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Right now, though LNG is cheap.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only in certain places it is cheap'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So production isn't worth investing yet until exports start skyrocketing'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'alaskan natgas is going to be exported to Asia in time, and lng plants on the gulf coast will send ships to europe'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Probably. You're getting no disagreement for me :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'new natgas pipelines are already being built in Texas to send gas overseas.....the price of the gas in the US is to low to run at full production right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that huge natgas field under north Texas is at 20% production right now because of the low price and huge oversupply of gas right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'propane is selling for 75 cents a gallon in the north dakota oil fields right now. :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there is no infrastructure around here to get the natgas out, so most of it is flared, and the rest is used to produce power.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No pipeline eh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I know who to blame for that one. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but a new $2 billion fertilizer plant is under construction to use up some of the extra gas around here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, no natgas pipeline was planned...the keystone pipeline was for oil....and oil can also be trucked out of here.....'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'crude haulers are making $26 an hour starting around here, plus massive overtime.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah I thought as much. I guess you can only use it for one or the other eh heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'A lot of good jobs in N.D.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most people are getting $1 raises every 50 days of driving, plus full benefits, room and board paid for, etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and straight time paid leave....work 4 weeks, and get 1 week paid vacation straight time of your hourly wage.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'west and south Texas are the same way also, but less known.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they need people to haul water, mud, crude and gravel'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I went to walmart earlier in williston today....and they are looking for more workers in the store....starting hourly is $17 plus benefits'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's probably seasonal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that has been the rate for 7 months now'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '8 months ago it was $16 an hour'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'that's crappy pay'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the unemployment rate in williston is .08 % right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most newbie roughnecks are easily making $2000 a week, and they need more people....the oil service companies hope to drill another 400 wells in the next year.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'There is a difference between store clerk and roughneck, tho...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the beautiful thing about shale oil though....it has flipped the economics of drilling upside down.....a normal well would cost around $2 million and you had maybe a 25% chance of hitting oil....but with shale oil....every $8 million well has struck oil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't see any difference in those numbers'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos . o O ( I wonder why they don't work on extracting oil from manure... )
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you noticed that eh :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr goes, "Heh."
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'shale oil is huge though, those fields could still be producing 100 years from now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and of course since we are assured by the drillers that the environment won't be damage, they we should sleep safely at night...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wah wah wah, drill baby drill !'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'obama has been a real disappointment in the energy sector....I almost prefer gwb.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's easier to do energy if you don't care about the environment'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'He's been sinking a ton of cash into renewable energy...progressed that field tremendously, compared to what it was 4 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, imagine that sucker not allowing drilling off the coast of California. What a jerk, he needs clean waters anyway. If the Gulf survived their disasters I am sure that California can too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is much easier to do energy if you have the balls to do what is right and still produce more energy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think Californians should just were hazmat suits all the time and let the big companies get on with their business.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'instead of hoping congress does the right thing and work together, make them do it by not signing anymore bills until they start working together.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what do you mean by right? Pollute the air and water? Why isn't the right thing working on technology that doesn't burn anything? The answer to that is simple, there ain't no money for the oil people in it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'open up ANWR, Alaska could use another 600k barrels of new oil in the TAPS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lets see...the water well on my land is 32 feet down....and the natgas well is 8000 feet down....and my water tastes the same.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Yeah, let's screw Alaska to the wall, we can take videos of polar bears and icebergs, if people want to know what that looked  like. Though when the dodo went missing no one actually had taken the time to capture them on film, so we really don't know what they look like and we are still living happily ever after.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '90% of alaskans want more oil in the taps, should listen to them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '90% of alaskans aren't alaskans...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I bet the oil companies did the polling :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The Alaskans are Inuit and Aleuts and others. The others are just carpet baggers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so 90% of the carpetbaggers want more oil :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most of the oil is on native lands, or govt lands.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'government lands, that's a good one :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'did the Inuit give the lands to the government?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and export more alaskan coal to asia...woohoo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the usibelli coal mine, one of the largest in the world exports a couple dozen ships of coal per year to asia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'medical research - every country has thier own - is there a way of pooling resources and researching together ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Spain seeks to oulaw filming cops after footage showing police beating demonstrators goes viral'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Feds arrest second patsy in federal reserve bombing case'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama makes ill-judged joke about death of embassy staff in Libya. Mother of slain diplomat is distressed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what joke was that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fidel Castro near death after stroke'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Madonna has $10mil suit placed on her in Russia'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gallup R52% O45%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Infowars are having a money bomb'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah I seen that'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama around 70% chance of being reelected'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'old stats?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'current'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound likely'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Electoral College, gotta love it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Court judges mobile phones cause tumors'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I might vote for Roseanne Barr thats how much it doesnt matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote for Gary Johnson, he might get enough to squeeze some cash out of the feds for next time'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no third party candidate will win election in the near future or ever for that matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that isn't the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what's the point then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the point is this:'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Where are you getting this 70% re-election chance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were not going to vote, or going to vote for a fringe candidate'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I'm seeing it much closer and thats incl Ohio going to Obama...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Which I doubt.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then vote for Gary Johnson because he has a large enough popular vote that a modest increase in votes will give him more Fed funding'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney can't win without Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I agree but Ohio is a toss up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Romney has FL, VA'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Thats the guy Tiger! That's who I am voting for'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'it's a weak lean to Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Anyone who votes obama or romney is a dumbshit'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'hardly Snooks'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could understand peopel in swing states voting Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I wonder how cell phones, answering habits, machine calls and such are affecting poll reliability'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the thing is Romney has to win a ton of the toss ups'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay I'll take that back. But really most people are grossly misinformed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'after winning Ohio and Florida'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'not really..it's more pressing for Obama to win them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'of the 13 swing states Obama currently leads in 11 of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I think it is pretty pressing for Romney atm'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Correct, and if he wants to win he has to keep the,.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney takes first lead in electoral college'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'RCP is full of stuff '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'their definition of toss up needs to be looked at again '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers around himself intently.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'North Carolina is lean romney but Iowa is a toss up?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looking at that list, i don't think i would disagree with the tossup'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama has twice as high a polling gap '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and that's just one example'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? Iowa is O49 R47'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd call that tossup'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Many sites have n carloina to romney and iowa to Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way, pretty clear direction of travel'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nytimes, the toilet paper of record'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Ad Hominems the last refuge of the ...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, It's a Gerald Celente quote'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'lol Tiger'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Living in NC, I'd probably give it to Romney.  This is without any following of any polls, news, though, and living in the most democratic part of the state :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Gerald cracks me up man'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i missed him today cos i was at work'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also tigernuts, just for your info http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map_no_toss_ups.html'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a lot in it, then'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and since all it would take is PA....'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for purely constitutional reckoning, romney would be the least-worst solution'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but really, you're screwed whoever wins'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney is better for the constitution? I fail to see how'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'believes in local government and the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's pretty simplistic'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'basic beliefs tend to be'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well put it this way, obama is for removing your second ammendment'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'often stated, never proved'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama is the best thing to happen to guns since the NRA'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'hollow it out a bit, perhaps'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because of this misguided belief that he will take away guns, gun sales are through the roof'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'he's better for guns than bush was.  Policy speaks for itself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you have to be pretty fucking retarded and paranoid to believe the shit nuts is spewing'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Why is that Dagnir?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in what way, sir Dagnir?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'obama wanting to remove 2nd, for example'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or romney having actual beliefs :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '...erm, that was kinda my point? At least the republicans know what it's for'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama on the other hand has crushed the first ammendment... and the 4th.... and is after the 10th'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how has he crushed the first amendment and the fourth amendment'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'outlawing protest, arresting people for their speech - same thing happens here'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'don't bother. he's either retarded or trolling. maybe both'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Three letters: N.D.A.A.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''disappearing' people. NDAA'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Ad hominems, the last refuge...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama doesn't appear to be much in favour of guns, but I haven't noticed any restrictive laws passed the last years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately he hasn't been able to get them through'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'get what through?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'laws banning guns?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, he was going to try and push a UN-originated gun ban'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, gun 'register''
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'le gasp'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what is the 10th ammendment'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Obama has stated his intent with gun laws.  They have yet to be pushed through legislation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Something I'm sure he is waiting on the 2nd term for.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people are having stuff confiscated, police are swatting people without due process, thus the 4th'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'sadly, the 10th ammendment has no say once we sign an international treaty'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'When the Feds threatened to impose a air-blockade on Texas if they refused to allow the deployment of TSA in it's airports, that's a violation of the 10th'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'i declare if i ran for president i would change my dollar into 75 cents'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'i don't think that is a violation'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so you're accusing Obama of favoring republican ideals?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's weird that no-one ever mentions 4th. it's always foaming mouths over 2nd that is in no danger'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're screwed whichever way you vote, though Romney has his voter base to think of, so he might have to be a bit more careful about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'according if he has republican ideals or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has globalist ideals'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney is the most fair weather politician on the face of the planet'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'wait what happened to my quarter'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you could have a 90 minute debate of Romney debating Romney if you wanted to'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Thats a blanket statement you could make for many politicians.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In 2008, Romney seemed to change views whenever some random focus group told him to'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your best bet as a coutnry is to get independants and libertarians in at the ground level - local goverment, sheriffs, governors'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'this time he has been fairly consistent (if a bit short on details - much like Obama)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'a bit short is being generous isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think i've ever seen a debate so devoid of policy as those debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I'd say Romney has been more forthcoming with details than Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has been more forthcoming with policy direction, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'However, that really doesn't say much.  They are both politicians.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which loopholes/deductions will Romney close or eliminate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Everyone else seems to dislike politicians, so I'm sure I'm permitted to balance things a bit by being slightly generous..'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'consistent? Romney?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Obama, transparent?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Of course you could argue that, say, Obama's approach to unpleasant events has been extremely consistent'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was reminicent of the politicians here in the UK in the run up to the election, complete lack of policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'guy who switches from extremist to moderate positions depending on whom he talks to?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you describe as extreme?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '47% are victims, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not extreme'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'libertarians and independents are likely to be similarly corrupt greedy deluded deranged and incompetent as those at the higher levels'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then I care about 100%, blah blah'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tactless, but not exrteme'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'the movement on jobs increasing'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats presupposing that it's a true statement'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also his break down was false'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure it's possible to care about 100% of voters while recognizing that X% of voters are part of the problem.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'of the 47% dependent on government or what have you, I would be willing to bet that MORE are Romney supporters'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Define "dependant on the government"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Twyst i would like to say that but i highly doubt that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I want to ban abortions, I believe that abortions should be safe and legal...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'paying no federal income taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'ala Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'll fight for stem cell research, no the govt should not fund the destruction of embryos...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'while investing in a fetus disposal company in china no less....'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Blind trusts are political tools to avoid responsibilty - Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no gun control legislation - never! Oh, I support an assault weapons ban in mass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It is also possible to prefer a ban on abortions while recognizing that since this is not realistic, abortions should be/remain safe/legal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'all my investments are through a blind trust - Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Sonshi, Aren't there more than one type of stem-cells? Embryonic and non-embr...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Or, to understand that stem cell research no longer requires embryos'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'in kentucky you can use high power rifles to hunt elk'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we need to address climate change now! Oh, no, there's no problem, it's all a hoax...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Sonshi Assult weapons are already illegal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'not sniper rifle!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there has been no global warming for 16yrs, inconveniently for Al Gore who has made $200mn dollars off the fear'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'they still sell ammo for it, the bill never passed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Also, climate change is both a problem and a hoax..'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'a sniper rifle is not an 'assult rifle''
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I'll give you the embryo one, but the assault weapons ban already expired...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'an assult rifle is defined as a automatic weapon'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'oh, those are always illegal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you can't buy automatics'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you can have semi-automatic'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the opinions of Tigernuts the Libertarian (closet republican) are often seemingly incompetent deranged deluded ruinous and blatant exaggerated lies -- (and there is that horrid sexpervert bias that is likely offensive to devout christians)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'they look the same but function differently'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how will Romney reduce the deficit and debt?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best get some sources for that, Zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or spur job growth?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'How has Obama done on the def. c'mon'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'How is Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Obama has shown us what he does, look at his spending- we can't afford another 4 years of that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Congressional republicans will not approve any tax increases'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Semi-Auto is better anyways. Any pro can get it done with single shots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'The problem I've seen with Obama in the debates is that it's hard to argue policy that is clearly failing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the structural deficit is actually low'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'also he said himself "my next four years i'll have more freedom. after the elections i'll have more freedom to do what i want"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The structural deficit?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the autumns here in rural Ontario Canada are warmer each year, as are the winters -- there is definitely global warming '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Real (GAAP) deficits are in the 4-5 trillion range recently, according to treasury'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes, what the deficit would be if employment were normal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's gigantic'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'if... but employment isn't normal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which means..drop all the wars, return to "normal" employment and growth, and you're still stuck with maybe 3 trillion deficit'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the increased number of devastating hurricanes and tornadoes in the USA are another indication of global warming '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if govt had expanded instead of contracted, the deficit would be fixed by now'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'we can't just pull that many troops home.. where would they work?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats the dumbest reason ive ever heard'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Of course no one really talks about GAAP accounting for gov't, because they traditionally only do cash flow accounting (and GAAP figures look awful)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'zade... what increasE?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'firing govt workers in a recession is pretty dumb, but there was little control over that, since they worked for states rather than the feds'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Ignoring the fact that the economy has been improving for years, at least Obama HAS a policy. All Romney has is "I'm going to make things better but never, ever tell you how!". I'd be more than happy to vote for someone with a CREDIBLE, SPECIFIC plan of how to do things. Romney has absolutely no substance'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Neither of which changes the reality that some kind of default is nearly inevitable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'the economy is improving?  How so?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'raise the taxes on the rich in the USA and the deficit shall turn into a surplus'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney gave a really clear and definitive answer on how he would imrove the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'few want to say it, but there not going to be a default because... (print more money)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'unemployment has been lowering for years? Jobs have been increasing for years? I thought this was obvious'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'he did?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'We have less jobs than when he took office and even fewer permanent jobs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '"without even doing anything, after I am elected there will be optimism and companies will hire again" - Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'You musta been watching a different channel than me'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I went to Obama's campaign site and found a bunch of bullet points and not a lot of detail, so I'm sure his clever plan is hidden somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'improving the economy for the rich while beggaring the middle-class is not inproving the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'no he didn't give an answer at all. Romney said "Tax cuts!" with no details on how these tax cuts will be paid for.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Then again, he has had 3 years in which to make real changes, and somehow I haven't noticed him propose any serious reforms'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a lot of people have been living under a rock, failing to realise that there was a severe financial crisis. Guess they don't read the news...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not strictly true, saric'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Anyone see that Obama's America 2016?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'maybe he's hiding all the good stuff for his 2nd term, but somehow I doubt it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he said tax cuts, partly paid for by removal of deductions and loopholes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he didn't say partly'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lacking specifics, but is entirely feasable'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how is it feasible Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'no he is going to use his second term to totally screw us'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, because he knows that when you reduce taxes, the tax take goes up'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and what does it accomplish?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yes when you stop excersizing you lose more weight'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hee hee [19 Oct 15:20:14] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, because he knows that when you reduce taxes, the tax take goes up''
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yeah, deductions and loopholes that don't exist. When asked whether he'd remove our 3 largest loopholes (capital gains tax and earned income tax credit)... nope, won't eliminate those'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's true, look at the UK's experience during the 1970s and 1980s, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "uncle tom" Barack Obama seems to be a closet republican "mole" doing the bidding of the corporate massahs'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Given that most of body composition appears to be determined by diet, you might very well lose weight once you stop exercising.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'sorry, those and the home ownership tax credit'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although hardly because you stop'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's *growth* which increases taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'there aren't enough loopholes to pay for Romney's tax cuts, and even if there were he's already refused to close the largest ones'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only growth'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do you know what kind of growth rate would be needed to offset Romney's tax cuts tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it would put pre recession china to shame'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what tax cuts he's planning, nor do i know enough about the specifics of your tax system to judge'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was arguing the general point'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, the mysterious effect by which collecting less taxes actually means you take more!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not what it is, sonshi, you lower the rate to collect more'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has to do with reducing the rate of dodging'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, if you can actually reduce the dodging'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that might be true if the rate was extremely high'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but there's no plan for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and why would he stop his friends from moving their profits to some little islands somewhere?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'ha! the idea that lowering taxes raising income has been thoroughly debunked for decades, at least for tax levels below like 75%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he wouldn't, but then neither would Obama, because they're both bought and paid for by the same puppetmaster'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '"debunked" is a bit of an exaggeration'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'history disagrees with you, Saric'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if Tigernuts does not explain what the "1970s and 1980s UK experiance" is, then Tigerputz is merely flapping his lips and not saying anything discernable  '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but obama isn't actually one of them, and he's not the one proposing to lower their taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah I agree'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'no it's not. literally nobody credible believes that lowering taxes RAISES income except for extremely high tax levels. '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The effect on total tax income of changes in marginal rates depends on what your starting point is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'no credible economist, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Obama is a socialist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so historic lows are too excessive?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK reduced the top tax rate from 45% to 40%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'With Communist roots. nuff said.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but tax rates are no where near that in the United States'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Which is why, say, that kind of thing was more likely to work one generation ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, 50 to 45%, it is predicted to cost less than 100mil gbp'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and yes, history indicates that lowering taxes does not in fact increase revenue. At least, there's a negative correlation'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'once growth is accounted for, across multiple countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and what was the result of lowering the UK tax from 50% to 45%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also depends on whether we're talking income from work or income from capital and your tax rates relative to other tax regimes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '2003 wasn't that long ago was it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reduction was quoted by the opposition at the time to cost 2bn gbp'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Look at Spain and Greece if you believe raising taxes increases revenue long term.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '30 years is also plenty of time for politicians to mess up a perfectly fine taxation system with a multitude of silly exceptions'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the bush tax cuts went into effect and the united states went into frenzy of growth never before seen right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, as an aside, it's a good place to note that recent reports (IMF, etc.) indicate that european govts are consistently understating the effect of the spending multiplier in their forecasts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Greece was notorious for having a tax rate of zero'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tax-cuts in the USA directly lead to the financial collapse of 2008 and the increased debt of USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for greece, tax is optional'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which is exactly the problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'similar to a Romney utopia'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and it seems like the US tax code is 10 times the number of pages it ought to be, so I'm willing to bet that if you add up a thousand little loopholes, that might work out to several dollars'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'nowhere near 5 trillion dollars I'm afraid'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taxes should be equitable, low, and universal, there should be no deductions, no allowances, no differentials'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The total federal income isn't 5 trillion dollars in the first place, is it? :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's a ten year forecast'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the more money the rich played with (from tax-cuts), the more greedy and reckless the financial markets became (with derivatives which was sopping up the extra monies)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'those figures usually are, I gather'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'like the imaginary cuts from 2011 agreements'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Romney's tax cuts are estimated to cost 4.8 trillion by the (nonpartisan) Tax Policy Center, and his deductions expected to raise no more than 1.7 trillion. That's a net 3.1 trillion (or more) added to the deficit, and that's that. Of course these are estimates, but to try to claim that these tax cuts would increase revenue is insane.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not to mention they are supposed to be revenue neutral, whatever the hell that means'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'it means that revenue neither decreases nor increases, which is mathematically impossible by his plan as stated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'What is it about the 2003 Bush tax cut you are referring to?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess you could continue as you are now, since that works'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's a shell game Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'our current problems aren't caused by things happening, but the exact opposite'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they need more stimulus, but in the absence of that, they need someone who won't go out of his way to wreck the economy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well looks like Germany are going to set up a coup to move EU financial center to Germany, so UK is screwed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more stimulus? you realise the fed is buying up $80bn worth of american mortgages every month?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they have the eurozone under their thumb, so it's not surprising.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. Buying mortgages isn't stimulus'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you need to actually hire people'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats what governments' idea of stimulus is. You might want to ask them why'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'go build roads or something. Some places have pretty bad jams'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'extra monies demand extra returns, which (when unregulated) leads to reckless financial vehicles -- a wise government taxes those excess profits from the rich and uses the surplesses (to eliminate national debt) and to use government monies to fund improvements to society (and at a far greater rate than the trickle-down myth of the greedy liar rich and their political bootlickers) '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, which side's fault is it...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't you get that yet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's pretty false TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's not jsut both sides in teh US, it's both sides here'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'fed buys mortgages -> mortgages in general increase in value & previous mortgage owners get cash -> hopeychangey wealth effects = functional stimulus, insert suitable black box stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'can cast all three spells'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not, you've got different 'sides' in power all over the western world, and all of them have failed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'both? Okay, let's see... no dems, only republicans (on economic policy anyway). What do you think will happen? Now no gop, only democrats. What would happen?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and mis:)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the dems would split into two parties'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'same for the reps'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'red states take in more federal money then they give to the federal government'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have a tendancy to be rural'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what does that prove'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fact is, if the gop were to mysteriously disappear during fiscal policy votes, the dems would increase spending on teachers, infrastructure, etc. while the reverse would happen if the gop were to dictate policy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does it prove? it's called demography'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I didn't ask what it was called'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it costs more to provide services in low population density areas'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'per person'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they aren't taking that money to build roads and hire teachers...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you know what they're spending it on?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'education is the devil's work, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Red states lead in most negative indicators'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what negative indicators?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'things like teen pregnency, welfar dependence, obesity etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i find that difficult to believe... except obesity'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee, Kentucky and Nevada. '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'top 10 teen pregnancy states'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you've got at least one republican on the house science committee who said "All that stuff I was taught about evolution and embryology and the Big Bang Theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of Hell. And its lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior."'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't hear this stuff from the dems...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Nevada and New Mexico are red state?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Nevada is I know for sure'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'never mind, your right'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a tossup'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '/sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you realize that is splitting hairs correct?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can only find two tossups out of ten?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what about the other 8?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about other negative indicators, biggest budget deficits, highest tax rates, highest debt levels, most crime?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Highest political corruption..'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'corruption follows the money. It happens more where the people are rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'happens in red states too, but usually in places like texas, with all their oil'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stats are a pretty divisive thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'ok lets look at crime'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Texas kicks ass, I wish Wisconsin could be the Texas of the north. Maybe if we take over MI's upper pennisula and some of canada we could.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it says something that states can continue to be rich without lots of resource money when their taxation and deficits are high'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Louisiana, '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmmm... crime. Should compare city to city...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'since you did mention the thing about rural areas. Well, one of you'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a lot of "blue" cities aren't too bad on crime, by american standards. Which is to say it's intolerable, but not catastrophic. Someone should go dig up the stats!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that Chicago and LA will be pretty high up'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Detroit'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, a few cities here and there'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Gary and East Chicago, IN would disagree with you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'now, to find a city of comparable size in a red state...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'it's a complicated issue with many confounding variables, you can't just compare "red" cities with "blue" ones'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ding!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'red states are all tiny'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'apples and oranges, see'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what i've been saying all along :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who was it who brought up rural areas?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my stats have bigger titties than your stats, and so on'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'stuff like teen pregnancy doesn't occur more in rural areas though...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and red states have more crazies on science committees who think science is the devil's work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'There are plenty of crazies on both sides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'okay, which dem is that nutty?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Creationism is a pretty unique type of crazy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'regardless of what you believe TN, if Romney is elected pres a lot of people are going to regret voting for him'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubty'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just the same as peopel who voted obama in 08 regretted it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't win'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'As opposed to the millions that regret voting for Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts agrees!
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the depth of the regret is vastly different though'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also it will be for different reasons'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'people regret voting for Obama because of what he couldn't do'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'people will regret voting for Romney for what he will do'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they regretted it because he has not done anything that he promised, and has done lots of things he promised not to'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a pointless argument, it's all he-said-she-said'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he hasn't done anything that he promised? hyperbole'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I regret having to vote for any of the last 3 candidates.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also it is hard when your "colleagues" are willing to destroy the country to keep you from being reelected'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is telling that the people least happy about good economy numbers are republicans'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you think either of the offerings offer a solution to US's problems, then you're delusional'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a difference between "not a solution" and "a problem"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no difference at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'That goes both ways, Twyst.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'They both play the economy lament depending on what they stand to gain.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one of them won't solve much. The other will likely actively wreck things'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem is way bigger than either of them, what they do is almost irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a possibility that he won't but in romney's case you'd have to worry that he'd actually follow through on his promises.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama didn't turn around a shitty economy fast enough'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Bush turned a stellar economy into a garbage heap'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lets elect Bush on Crack'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sounds great to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Arguably, Obama has not exactly turned the economy anywhere.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what happens when you start two wars on a credit card'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you have a choice between more bleeding and hacking off another leg.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'You can't sit here and say Obama is faultless and then blame everything on Bush.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's all Reagan's fault!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if obama did a shitty job of dressing the wound, at least he didn't go hacking away another leg...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'the fact is we are so deep in debt that it is actually impossible to "pay it back". America will be in debt from now until it is not America anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if obama had not overseen the imposition of a police state and trounced all over the constitution, i might have more time for any economic plans...... if he actually had economic plans, which he is currently keeping secret'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, arguably, Bush jr. took over a crashing economy from Clinton.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Which didn't really have much to do with either of them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialism is a disease'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'HA HA HA'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bush did put those tax cuts in place, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly the same as corporate fascism'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Socialism is sort of a nice dream that would work if only people were inherently good and at least nearly omniscient'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You're looking at the wrong people when you look to the Presidents as the cause of these problems too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Those tax cuts actually increased tax revene from 2003 to 2008, but again you are debating a generalization.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'There was far more many factors than just a tax cut.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'tax cuts at the same time as an expensive war... recipe for economic disaster.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'glass-stegall, and pushing mortgages on people who couldn't afford them'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least clinton left a surplus and plenty of wiggle room'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when money is loose (from lower taxes), investors are more likely to be reckless.  when money is tight, investors require to be more cautious and accurate in investments.  the ongoing economic danger with the extreme rich is that the excessively rich view monies as loose and also tend to control the politicians, the (de)regulations, and the financial institutions, resulting in a seeming automatic "insider trading" position (those on the "outside" are at a disadvantage)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the tax cuts occured concurrently with those gains'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if a crash happened while there was a surplus, it wouldn't have been too bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'didn't cause them by any stretch of the imagination'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Clinton happened to be president during a technology-driven boom.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Clinton left a surplus because he was giving out 300k home loans to people with a 540 credit score.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so its all about external factors Tinada?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, because we stopped inventing stuff after clinton. Right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clinton caused the housing bubble'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(and when the extreme greedy rich control the media, then blatant lies becomes the norm)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bubbles aren't too bad when you have a surplus'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same as the Labour party here ran up the debts here in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bubbles are not good -anytime-, they're a skewing of the market'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but they aren't that bad when you have a surplus, which is what I said...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'no, they're always bad, because they'll always pop'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'relatively easy to recover'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you have a surplus, there's a lot you can do to limit the damage'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the 2008 banking crisis was relatively easy to recover from? well gee, i'm glad of that'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: '"bubbles aren't bad when there's a surplus" is like saying "being set on fire isn't so bad when you're really cold"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's a comedian :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'gee, you think there was a surplus in 2008?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Laissez-Faire capitalism is as much of a pipe dream as socialism'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not sure where you get your data from!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'it's not a pipe dream, it's just so cruel to the people within it that they revolt against it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what he caused while you claim he had a surplus'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bubbles don't inflate instantly, they take a number of years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he had a surplus in 2000'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the surplus was tiny compared to the national debt'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if that surplus had been kept (and expanded), the situation would be much better'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but if he maintained the same policies the debt would be zero'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'republicans have dementia when it comes to the national debt'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you don't understand the difference between a budget deficit/surplus and a national debt'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and in fact, the very act of maintaining that surplus would reduce the growth of bubbles, because the govt is drawing in more revenue.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the debt will sky rocket under Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or the US will become a banana republic'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will become a banana republic under EITHER, you are already devaluing your currency, and the world is fleeing from it as a world currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's mostly about (1) stuff politicians can't control and (2) long term obligations, which they can control (at least, in theory they can..)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't you get it yet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's OVER. You guys LSOT'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'LOST'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hard to debate with this level of lie production...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and if you want to know who causes bubbles, you have to look at the central banks as much as governments'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fleeing from the USD indeed. ha'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'The debt is unfixable, adding more does nothing at this point. It's only a matter of time before total tyranny and our gov. saying that we "owe them"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia, china, bric countries are all trading in chinese currency now'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps "God" cursed the USA since the USA committed some of the unforgivable sins of radioactive pollution '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'iran now sells oil in chinese currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'most of the govt debt is held by americans... One would note that the debt would go away if certain socioeconomic classes were taxed heavily...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you know who had a great response to the financial problems of 2008?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'China'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'gq'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'guess what that response was?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'There is an ongoing (partly China-led) move away from the USD - it's been going on for some time, and at this rate, it may take another 20 years before we reach any kind of tipping point'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'CNY is not fully convertible. Trading in it is very limited.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there national debt of america is higher than the value of every barrel of oil on the earth, both mined and still int eh ground'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the national debt is mostly self owed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taxing the middle classes will not help you'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is Romneys ultimate answer though'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who said anything about taxing the middle class?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? i thought most of your bills are bough by global banking corps'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'except romney!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who else are you going to tax, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rich won't pay your taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Blaming the rich or the poor is just propaganda to create a class war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The middle class is disappearing, better tax it quickly while you still have a chance.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, because the US has so little power that they can't do what little islands like mine can...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they did under Clinton'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'don't blame the rich. Tax them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't pay the tax they should be paying now, you think raising the rate will change that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I think the US might be able to push capital income rates up to 25-30% without any serious problems'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'considering EU countries tend to  have capital rates in that range'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you could raise the capital gains tax for anything beyond 50k of capital gains income'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU isn't very competitive'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they actually do pay that, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada beams a smile at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's always the little guys that carry the can'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it is easier if you go with one flat tax on everything, make it 30%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and have a 20k or something deduction for all wage earners'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in most cases they aren't dodging the tax entirely, it's that they are changing it into capital gains to pay a lower rate. Lower that rate, and you get even less. Raise the rate, you get more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have something similar, doesn't help - people on low incomes pay around 50-60% tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Bingo'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Tigernuts ponderingly.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rich pay <40%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's not very difficult to arrange so that poor people pay very low direct taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporations pay fuck all'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'can't tax the job creators'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'starbucks have paid no tax here in years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'facebook paid no tax last year'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney's economic policy in a nutshell'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'of course if you have anything like a vat, poor people will inevitably pay a larger share of their income through indirect taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in lieu of closing loopholes, which we know will take decades to achieve, if at all, might as well raise the capital gains tax 5-10 percentage points.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, I'll sell you the Norwegian tax code for one billion'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd prefer a 20% flat sales tax, 20% income tax 0-52k, 40% 52k+ with no deductions'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It is sufficiently complex to cover all your needs, clocks in at about 300 pages, and I'll even translate it for you'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk tax code weighs in at a little over 1000 pages'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not only that, I'll remove the silly loopholes added during the past 20 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure you can manage to implement a drastic simplification in 2 years if you actually want to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody wants to'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'left wing don't want to because they want to create big government, the more complicated the better, provided there's loopholes for their elite puppetmasters'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'either that or there are localized pockets of extreme incompetence everywhere near the IRS :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'right wing don't want to because they don't want loopholes closed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the little guy suffers'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'division of power sounds like a great idea in theory, but all it seems to achieve is more corruption, as every one with the power to hold up something can demand a cut.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what division of power?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if Obama had dictatorial powers, the US would closer resemble your dream TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my nightmare, you mean'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'of the rich bearing more of the Tax burden'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one party controlling one branch another controlling the other, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my dream would be to removing control for pretty much everything except foreign policy from the feds'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'back to what it was originally intended as'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why would empowering the states be better TN?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'foreign policy and to ensure fair trade and treatment between states'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'strong institutions and an army sworn to democracy are stronger guardians than a divided govt.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it would devolve into 50 versions of what we currently have'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because the states have shown themselves COMPLETELY trustworthy to wield such power'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an army sworn to protect the constitution is what you need, since you're a consitutional republic'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'carful, sarcasm doesn't carry well on the internet!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the states run their affairs, you don't like your state? move to a different one'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Trustworthy is a bad choice of words.  The federal govt has proven to be just as "trustworthy".'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the use of "reverse sarcasm" in debates is indicative of "mental retardness" and debating incompetence'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So Tiggr, what happens when states enact a no emigration policy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting who's for dinner'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that likely, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless part of their affairs is to kick out immigrants from other states'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you tell me, go take a look at your history and tell me what the original constitutional arrangements said about inter-state movement of people'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the use of "reverse sarcasm" in debates means that the debate is unsuitable for children and the inexperienced '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"sure, my state might be well run, but we don't need you wisconsins. Shoo!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And how easy was transportation back then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I'm ok with no wisconsiners...jk '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm... according to my history, our original constitutional arrangement were that there shall be freedom of movement unless parliament... oh wait.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'But seriously dealing in overblown exaggerations doesn't help your argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'concentration of power in ever-larger 'blocks' means less and less representative governance'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll get nothing but grief from that'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ask the EU how well it's turning out'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'power really equates to money or the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'another option is to split into 4-5 states'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? you have 50 states already codified in law, use it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they're the perfect size'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Which goes back to demography.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the states were never meant to be independent countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Indiana in the last presidential election is a perfect example of that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many of the states WERE independant countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'past tense'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it also worked out great'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wtf?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some of those states wouldn't survive as they are without fiscal support'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'read up on the articles of confederation when you get the chance'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they would'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Clearly no one expected the federal government to have anything remotely near the power and control they have today'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Tinada person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woohoo, Ohio will be one of the next shale oil locations for widespread production in the coming years.....expect another 500k barrels a day from there by 2018'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the US constitution came about because of a lack of federal power'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fatuous comments to cover the lack of any basis in fact, it's like arguing Scotland couldn't survive seperation from the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the US constitution was also very careful to limit federal power'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and quote primacy of the States'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'scotland's an entirely different matter. They aren't taking in a large percentage in fiscal transfers'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wtf?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes they are'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they have oil!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or would, if they get the fields'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they receive 30% more per head of population in public spending than the rest of the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do they take more than they give?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'significantly, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, england will have no obligation to accept scots from an independent scotland, so they're trapped'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you stopped fiscal transfers in the US, there'd be economic dislocation as people left areas which had suddenly become poorer'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'i.e. red states'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I lived in Oklahoma for 15 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '100% republican yet horrible'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you have free movement without fiscal transfers, bascially what you get are slums... you see that in cities, but under similar conditions, you'd get that in entire countries too'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, it could work if you have various state armies bar emigration and immigration...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but that'd be too horrible to contemplate'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it worked to an extent in the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how's spain working out for you guys?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the economic problems were not caused by people movement'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and besides, they don't all speak one language. That helps...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in terms of limiting migration'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you a communist, Sonshi, suggesting that USA citizens require passports to move around inside the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'helps what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but there was capital movement...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they would if they broke up into 50 seperate countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reactionary comments, really, there would be migration, but not a problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, tell that to the irish.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ireland would have been fine without the global banks'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the shackles of the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'global banks, that they had the last time they had an exodus?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the last exodus from Ireland was 2008-2010'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'before that...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was a potato famine, no?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I count that as current'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't consider 1841 current'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that was a fiscal competency famine'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sigh. the 2008- one'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'now you're just deliberately feigning ignorance...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they tried to grow derivatives and the derivatives crop failed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, and without the ability to control their own interest rates, they had no control of their economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, currency union without fiscal transfer = bad idea'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst nods.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should have kept their currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'try that in the US, and things would be even worse, since they all more or less speak the same language'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't make any sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the spanish all spoke good english/german, you'd see lots of them moving'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"that" is uninformative'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but language aside, it'd be at least as bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless all fifty states started printing their own currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ron Paul advocates competing currencies, it would work fine'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what once happened'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bye bye reserve currency...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'and now I *know* that you're crazy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Ron Paul is a mental-retard in regard to currencies'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Wrong Zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it didn't work fine though TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when didn't it work fine?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wouldn't say he's a retard, Ron Paul advocates policies that would boost the value of his gold holdings'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Snooky'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'PM worked fairly well for several years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you think it's so great, get ready for the currency wars of the next 12-36 months'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'post revolution, pre US unification as we currently have it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know UK deposits are devaluing at around 8% a year atm, and i'm really grateful for that, not'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'when romney wins.....the whole country is going to be open for energy business.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Rizgoth.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'We need DAT Fracking going on'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'energy boomtown nationwide.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Ron Paul's gold holdings are being 'boosted' anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney probably wont win'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he bought then 20 years ago, then they're up 900% already'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but even if he did that would be a disaster'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Romney probably will win.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sonshi, you saying the Ron Paul is a deceptive greedy crook in regard to multiple currencies advocation'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its not in the Electoral cards'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'credit for that goes to Bernanke and Obama rather than Paul though'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I suppose the bright spot in a romney presidency would be that austerity would be good for the global environment. When the us economy crashes, it would reduce emissions. Not the best way, but...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'disaster my ass, a comprehensive energy policy that focuses on oil and gas, and wind projects is what we need.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Wind is still, what 200-250% of the cost of fossil fuels?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if the started drilling every square inch of the US what difference would it make?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'A lot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'oil is a global market'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote Obama, get a free phone'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the amounts are negligble'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Might be feasible if someone gets around to inventing the next generation of batteries'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and it would take 10 or more years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wind is as cheap as coal in Texas right now, and cheaper than natgas USED to be until all the shale gas became available.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, the Rizgoth trickle-down theory of a comprehensive energy policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kCc-yfoM5o'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with a pigovian tax, the market could be left to find the most efficient way to limit emissions...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'more US oil would (1) lower overall oil prices and (2) change trade balances'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also..more jobs and taxes and stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'these are multinational companies'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'until the oil ran out'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax-2i71bqGw&feature=related'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas produces about 1.6 million barrels of oil right now each day....by 2016 that will be 2.5 million, and north dakota will be 1.2 million from 600k now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'leaving less oil for future generations sooner'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you want to pollute your country, please do it after I've left...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and after my country finishes its climate prep'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts falls to the ground and rolls around, laughing hysterically.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, since the US uses less oil today than it did 5 years ago, and vehicles are getting more efficient and cleaner....it is actually less damaging to the environment thanks to technology.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we could all drive prius, because electric cars are so good for the environment'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why are vehicles becoming more efficient and cleaner?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'efficiency in tech is making the US much more efficient and the air cleaner compared to before.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'more efficient - probably because that sells better, cleaner - gov't regulations'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'government regs also mandate efficiency'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have your guys cars caught up to EU efficiency yet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the ATVs, scooters, lawnmowers, are yet horrid polluters '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US is heading towards an all north american energy policy....it is inevitable.....let the rest of the world fight over middle eastern oil from now on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its a global market Rizgoth'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We can export clean natgas to our allies like the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'everyone is competing for the same oil'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well we won't fight, Russia/China will have it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'global market my ass....not when canadian oil is selling for $20 under global market price, and west texas i is selling for $25 less'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as our production keeps increasing, our oil prices have stabilized here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rizgoth seems to be obsessed with his ass'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'US oil production has increased for the first time in 20 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pedestal perhaps'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'don't tell Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote UKIP'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Romney never said Oil production hasn't increased.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the big US oil companies are already applying for permits to build some lng plants on the gulf coast to export some of our excess natgas to Europe, especially the UK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'He did say oil production on federal lands has not increasted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Oil production decreased due to the moratorium after BP Horizon'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil production on fed land has not increased, on private lands it is up 40%'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happened to the DOW today?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so those traitorous big US oil companies want to squander the NorthAmerican natgas by giving the natgas to foreigners'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, they want to sell some of our $3 natgas to the UK for $9'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'nah if Romney is elected and we start drilling more, they will sell it cheap to their compatriots trust me'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so how will that change in the future'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you don't seem to draw the logical conclusion'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA attempting to become energy independent, and the big Oil companies in their greed for fast early profits want to deplete the natgas reserves faster'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'i.e. that it is a global market'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it used to be a global market, the US and other shale oil countries have turned it on its head.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and the more oil and natgas taken from the ground, the more global warming is going to increase, faster and sooner'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how much has global temperatures risen in the last 16 years, Zade?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US has enough natgas from current production of shale gas for at least 120 years, and that is extracting only about 10% of the known resource.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'new tech will allow more reserves to become available.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich in their greed want to hasten the onset on armageddon faster and sooner'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'c'mon, Zade, answer the question'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We could use some global warming here in north dakota....I miss Texas.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let me help yuo'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/8c56ces  - latest Met Office study'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is currently 30 F cooler here in williston compared to my home in Texas.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'global cooling is required, before the glaciers all mostly disappear'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's nothing you can do'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you may die sooner'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlikely'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, just go buy a more efficient vehicle and use less fuel, it doesnt meant you stop living.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hell, my new truck gets 28 mpg, a big improvement over my old dodge.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'these is more energy in the atmosphere these days, from the increased CO2, even if the temperatures seem the same -- and where is all that released CO2 going -- the oceans?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US has over a dozen shale oil and natgas deposits that we know of, and they are spread all over the country.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'deb and that doesnt even include the oil shale in colorado, utah, wyoming, montana, and nebraska....which has upwards of 2 trillion barrels.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the increased CO2 in the middle and upper atmosphere likely means higher temperatures in the middle and upper atmosphere -- and that translates to more atmospheric energies'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$8.75 a gallon here thanks to a weak gbp'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the increased CO2 in the middle and upper atmosphere may even be maintaining even temperatures in the lower atmosphere -- but the weather is going to be far more violent'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why it was rebranded 'climate change' from 'global warming''
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since one is accurate and one isn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a hotter middle and upper atmosphere is global warming'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the melting of the glaciers and polar ice caps is global warming'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'He's speeding out of control'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no he is wrapped around a lamp post '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'therefore speeding doesn't exist'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dont worry nuts, in a few years after the keystone pipeline is built, we will export some diesel to you guys....:p'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sigh... the physics is pretty clear on this, you know... you can check absorption frequencies of CO2 and other gases, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks riz, i can't afford to get to work until then'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so go wipe out a few billion people and sort out the problem, Sonshi, kthxbye'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"climate chsange" is too ambiguous and inaccurate -- an "ice age" is also "climate change"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it needs to be ambiguous, zade, they don't fully understand the science'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't have to kill people for your selfish needs, when everyone can get most of what they want'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well try waving your magic wand then'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like I said... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you ask me for more money, i'll just tell you "i can't afford it"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you're not the one the money is collected from...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i will be'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"global warming" is far more accurate than the ambiguous "climate change"  .. perhaps "global warming climate change" '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're rich, you'd pay more, if you're poor, the elimination of sales tax would help'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's not what will happen, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'part of the reason for building the keystone pipeline was so that we could export some gasoline and diesel to europe to help stabilize prices over there and reduce the oil glut we have here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a good example is the levy placed on domestic energy here in order to subsidise the solar and wind industry'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guess what! domestic energy prices rose 17% over the last 2 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that will happen, if a govt that could implement a pigouvian tax were to do it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps "global warmed climate change" '
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just call it the global corporate welfare al-gore tax, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'by the time the keystone is built though, we will need another pipeline because of increased oil production in canada tar sands and north dakota, montana'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spade is a spade, after all'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you think that's a good example, you should see... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, i'm sure China and India will go for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it depends on implementation, doesn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you grant each country a portion of tax-free quota on a per capita basis initially, I think you could convince them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'important thing is to get a framework in place first.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and this money does what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all these people whine about building the keystone pipeline, but because it isnt being built, the oil companies have to move the oil by tanker truck, and built more rail lines......producing more pollution compared to the pipeline.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the collecting govts can reduce sales taxes, or whatever'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's collected from whom'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'economic entities in the various countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is it collected'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'through the national tax agency(ies)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, then it won't work'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. It'll work as well as any other tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be just as easily dodgable'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'harder'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just move the company source to a country not signed up'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it also exports revenue'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'since emissions are easier to document than profits you can just hide'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't believe that for a second'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can also tax goods entering the country at the same rate that they'd be taxed if it were produced in country'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's really no way to escape this tax, since it's something physical'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can do that without this tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'huh? They can implement the tax without the tax?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can tax goods inwards without this carbon tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's called import tariff'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that misses the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hah, we dont need anymore taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't miss the point, the point is that it's unenforcable'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the point is so that the pigouvian tax is applied to all goods used in the country, so that businesses don't move'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd do better to try and make each country as self sufficient as possible'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd get a better rate of return in terms of reduction in co2'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'starting with energy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'starting with energy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's bad for the economy. Why ruins things when you can have the free market achieve all your outcomes and optimise growth?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i live on an island, there's shittons of energy for the taking provided they stopped masturbating over pointless solar'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'every country has the capacity to be energy self sufficient....just have to be creative.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'growth is unsustainable'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your economy needs to be able to work off 0% net growth'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we need to aim for less pollution per unit of productivity, in some sense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'because the markets aren't free, they're corporate'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no economy works on 0% net growth'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or put a different way, if your model requires growth, it's not a sustainable model'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not that I disagree that infinite growth is unsustainable'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney Tax Plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's nothing in the model that prevents it from working with 0 growth. But positive growth is always desirable, if it doesn't result in anything negative.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never-ending growth requires either never-endingly increasing population, never-endingly devalued currency, or requires some other country getting bled dry'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why don't you want a free lunch? Why keep shooting youselves in the foot?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we already know there is too many people, and that population needs to come down'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'other people though right, not you or your family :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'free lunches are nasty, as evidenced by public school offerings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we are very far from the theoretical productive max of the planet...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlike the democratic elite, i don't advocate eugenics and depopulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that seems to be exactly what you are advocating'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even without population growth, we can keep getting richer for many generations'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'please correct me if I am mistaken'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not at all, if you build countries up rather than blowing them up, education tends to lead to smaller family sizes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Don't you get tired of being corrected?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'based on that model, population is set to peak around 2040'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so blowing countries up is bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'blowing up countries is bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'out per capita productivity is many times higher than it was a hundred years ago, and there's no reason not to strive for more, while removing bad outcomes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who would be more likely to blow a country up? Romney or Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err... output'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'anyone with a military.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'what is so bad about large populations?  Just expand into the oceans, and into space.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"is the earth flat or not? Gee, I don't know, both positions sound nuts"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney is calling for unlimited war in Afghanistan and more likely to go to war with Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how is that both?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'build bigger and taller buildings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and underground'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a lot of room for expansion'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both have policies to keep the middle east destablised and fighting'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'And here we go with the fear mongering.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the iraq war was needless and illegal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'population isnt the problem....willpower to do what needs to be done is the problem.  And only a few countries seem capable of it right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the afghanistan war was needless'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why we need to enact policies that use market forces to allow expansion without killing ourselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the libyan intervention was needless'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't disagree with you there'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the syrian intervention is fucking ridiculous, illegal, hypocritical and just downright evil'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'radon gas in underground cities is going to increase the cancer rates'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can build exhaust systems to remove the radon gas, like we do now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can be dealt with... technical details...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the use of the "f***ing" invalidates Tigerfutz's false opinion'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is not fear mongering to state that Romney would be more likely to start a war with Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks for that critical assessment, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are many easy ways to expand without screwing up the planet. It isn't even expensive. It's annoying how we can't even fix relatively easy problems before they get worse just because people continue to pretend it isn't happening'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yeah, put more radon gas above ground -- goes with the depleted uranium'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Yes it is.  You have no basis for that statement.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's worrying, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'The same thing was said about Reagan and he never pushed the button.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more than likely, a war with iran would be more likely with obama, since he is a chickenshit when it comes to foreign relations.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we have to put it somewhere to make room for all the co2 we're putting in the ground.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why is Iran the US problem anyways?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'just out of curiousity'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only thing you could do for the UK's population problem is leave the EU to gain control of immigration and make contraceptive implants a precondition for receiving welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because everyone looks to the US to solve world problems.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not, twyst, you should leave them alone'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it isnt, the sanctions are working quite well.....iran is producing 880k barrels of oil now, from 2.5 million per day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you'd left them alone in the 1950s, you wouldn't have the ayotollahs in power now'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so what is with all the rhetoric and sabre rattling from the republicans?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and Israel'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'contraception a condition for welfare? So much for freedom...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel. Money'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's amusing, given how loudly everyone is calling for the US to stop intervening so much.  As soon as we don't do something, it's all "OMG, do something!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with freedom, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'at the rate iraq is going though....iraq will be producing 10 million barrels or more each day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no ideological difference to the concept of 'duty' on alcohol, cigarettes, fuel'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'financial disincentive for behaviour you're trying to discourage'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there is, because those on welfare often need to to, well, not die'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(need it to)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you trying to tell us all that having a contraceptive implant will kill them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, but what if they refuse?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then they don't get welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'then no welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, there's the difference'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no job no welfare, no implants, no welfare...works for me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you don't want to pay the alcohol tax, I don't have to sell it to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so there's a clear difference there...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is an alternative. Adopt'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and volunteering at a local shelter would be considered a job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'whether yit is acceptable or not is one thing, but it's still an enchroachment on liberties...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how dare you!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'are the irish, jews, catholics, going to like this welfare-contraception policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would try and claim infringement on liberties while defending the NDAA, removal of freedom of speech, lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though in this case, i just disagree, you can have kids, just don't expect the rest of us to pay for them'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'me, defend the removal of freedom of speech? What alternate universe do you live in, and how many virgins are waiting for you there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'And I don't even remember what the NDAA is...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mustafah Pee and his friends have the monopoly on the world's remaining 4 virgins, so no go there'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'National Defence Authorisation Act'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, it's just a name, I don't know what's in it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole point of the idea, other than reducing population, is to make treatment equal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kinda like the Patriot Act ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NDAA? US government can 'disappear' US citizens, without due process, imprison or execute them'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the patriot act is stupid, should repeal it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but anyway - removing freedom is bad, okay, unless there's some offsetting benefit...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well the alternative here in the UK is just to do away with all financial incentive to breed, all child benefits'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, back home we can't get enough kids...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welfare isn't a safety net here, it's viewed as an 'entitlement', and that's the problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is often the problem with socialism'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you only think you have too many because your economy is crap now'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Here in the US just open a foster home.....get the state to charter you, and then collect the fat foster child checks from the state and federal govt....something like $1000 each kid.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'per month'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'step 1. Ban abortion, step 2. limit contraceptives, step 3. promote abstinence only sex ed, step 4. complain about poor children'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the kids will get full medicare benefits, food stamps, and ssi, as will you as their foster guardian.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and food stamps is up to $200 per month per person now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the alternatives are to hire govt workers directly to care for the kids, or to throw them by the roadside'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our land can support 25 mil'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our energy infrastructure can support 65 mil'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'your land can support many times that. All a question of tech'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and oddly, most of us here don't want to live like cattle'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'build higher'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I dont have a problem with the foster child program...itis a good program....I just have a problem with people having 8 of their own kids and then asking the govt to help them with food and welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the question as always TN, who leaves?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tried that, failed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you want to live in a city, close to all the services and jobs, instead of the countryside... what can be done?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's actually been tried twice'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't, i hate cities'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they tried building hi-rise in the 50s, 60s and 70s. Most were pulled down and/or are slums'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN Agenda 21 is all about forcing the same thing again, but with the difference of enforcement by taking control of all the land'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a question of competence. Our high rises are decent'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod we call em tenements here in the US....where the free housing is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't about the quality of the buildings. They were built as social housing. Initially social housing was given to people with jobs and references. In 1976 they removed that and said that they should be given to people in need. Within 5 years they'd turned into slums'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'high crime, drugs, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Rizgoth person again...
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'most people back home live in public housing... all high rises'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I don't mean this to sound prying, but what age group are you in, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'student'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahhh'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but not mature student'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'closer to 30'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but student sounds better'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'riz and i are a little older than you, i guess we've just .... lived through more stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I've studied more though! Probably.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a generational divide, i'm the younger cusp of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'public housing has the potential to be safe, clean, and economical. You just need to build better infrastructure'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we didn't just stick high rises in the middle of nowhere, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem with public housing -here- was not the housing or the infrastructure'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was due to flaws in society'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'depends on the location....public housing in Alaska is safe and a good low cost place to live for people.  But alaskans have more pride I guess.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you also have to build the commercial areas, the subways, roads, police stations, fire stations, hospitals...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were all there, like i said'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it also very much depends on whether they own or rent their units'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you can sell your flat, you will take better care of it. That's how it is...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, that certainly won't happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and section 8 program is a good program....the rent cant be more than 30% of your income.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'average 1 bed flat here costs 6x the average salary'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure it will, if you can sell it, there's a big incentive to make sure the price is food'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err, good'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, some subsidy would be in order for smaller flats, of course...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the subsidy would need to be 2/3 the price of the flat'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's still a tinbox'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's public housing after all, no need to make a large profit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're geared up to crank out flats regularly, they'll cost less to build too'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and they get better over time, as they gain experience...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should build a shit ton of social housing here to force down the property market'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they won't, because it would deflate the housing market'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's so much land in the uk, just crank out housing units'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Uk are fully signed up to Agenda 21, you can't so much as take a shit on a piece of land here'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you certainly can't build'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just hold down the price increase, inflation will allow for the real price to drop without a nominal increase'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why building land price is so expensive'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the govt can'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if your govt isn't doing something don't blame the UN'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do, in conjunction with monopoly property corps'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country is part of the UN too, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and they crank out housing units'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Doesnt seem to be a problem in NYC....they just keep building taller buildings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'among other things'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN (or EU) is providing the excuses for my country to blame'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we had a 50 storey public housing development recently... sky gardens and all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'great view, probably.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, it's all excuses. Blame your govt, not the UN.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'your govt has the power to do stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we should build a babylon station.....it could orbit around the planet....and have 5 million people living on it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'probably cheaper to just build higher, for now'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what we should do is pack you lot all off to, i dunno, the western seaboards in your cramped megacities, and leave the rest of the country to us country folk'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but in the future... that'd be nice'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as all your oil and coal doesn't wipe us out!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oil and coal won't wipe you out, but it will keep your lights on'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hah, wouldnt worry about the oil and gas.....it is becoming more efficient as time goes by.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'solar and wind can't keep up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not many countries preparing for a 2m sea level increase in the next century...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll never happen, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's only us and a few others...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Al Gore wouldn't have spent $9 million on a mansion on the coast at sea level near San Fran if there was to be a 2m sea level rise'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there will be a new ice age long before the oceans get much higher...which means more fresh water in the form snow and ice instead of in the oceans...and thus a lower ocean.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a hotter middle and upper atmosphere means that the ice and glaciers on the mountain tops may melt faster'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's already happening a little. Unfortunately for us, it tends to be more obvious near the equator...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wouldnt surprise me if we had a mini ice age in the next 30 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as the ocean currents slow down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'saw somewhere i'd like to live in the paper today, but they wanted $1.6m for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it's desirable, it tend to cost a lot'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how surprising, isn't it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(err, tends)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what happens with overpopulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would rather have 1000 acres right on top of a shale oil deposit. :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah, halve the population and you'll get half the number of desirable units...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given how some companies are stealing the rights from owners, I'm not sure you do'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in some places, you can sell it to them cheap, or they can take it legally by claiming you don't want to deal'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is already less than 1 acre per head of population in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty desperate'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not everyone wants to live on a farm...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that's what you get for letting in those overbreeding foreigners'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: '>1 acre = a farm?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's the problem, because of people who don't want to live on farms, the people who DO want to live on farms... can't afford to live on farms'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(yeah, i wasn't going to point that out, Krynal)'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you'd rather pay someone to mow your lawn, it's probably a farm.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd have more than 1 acre, since most people will live in cities'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if more people wanted to live on farms, they'd be more expensive, you know'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Huh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'supply and demand, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a large portion of the country is national park, unesco, or government run, so in actual fact it's more like 0.2 acres per person'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, hence too many people'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'No, I get what you are saying... I'm just baffled by your reasoning.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get shot of them, please'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, but with most people living in cities, the amount of land per person who actually wants to live in the countryside is much larger'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can all go live in your hi-rise megacity1 socialist paradise'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't work like that in reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too much population, too much demand on the land'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and unless they're all single, that also adds to the amount of land per household...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the property prices disagree with your assessment'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who do you think builds the farmer's machinery? Roads? electric supply?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you hate it so much, why dont you leave>'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mostly city dwellers...'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and where am I going to, Twyst?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'City dwellers mostly bottom-feed'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'somewhere less populated'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like....'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'somalia, I hear they have little govt interference. No stupid UN too!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the us'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'siberia!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it wasn't for the police state, i would consider it'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, somailia then'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll wait until after your revolution'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'somalia has no police state!'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no wonder you want Romney elected :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'revolution is more likely with Obama, actually'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the pussy dictator?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he is the man who is simultaneously everything lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'll be the cocaine he takes'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'a fundamental christian-muslim'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'weak ineffectual leader, who will take over the free world'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's someone else's problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, and 8 megawatt offshore wind turbine.....'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Utica formation holds recoverable reserves equal to 5.5 billion barrels of oil and 15.7 trillion cubic feet of gas, assuming drillers can extract 5 percent of the hydrocarbons in place.  A total value of about $ 500 billion at current prices.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'is that a lot or a little?'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'a fair amount'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is a decent size fir a shale deposit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is under Ohio.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'google 'tax' and nothing comes up'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Will Self on Paul Ryan: I would never tire, even after breaking my foot, of kicking that man in the balls'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Will Smith, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In August 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit upheld a lower courts ruling that anything that was manufactured overseas is not subject to the first-sale principle. Only American-made products or copies manufactured domestically were.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US supreme court will hear orals on the issue this month.  If they agree, copyrights will be held over to original owners and resellers would be obliged to share any resale with them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the resell market would be destroyed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so it depends on which way big business tells Scalia and Roberts to vote eh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'bye bye resell'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it all started because some thai student had his relatives in thailand buy cheap textbooks and mail them to him to be sold on craigslist and ebay....the guy made $1.2 million in reselling the text books, and the original publisher wanted a piece of the action.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'even though they already got their cut, gotta love capitalism'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but it also shows the hypocracy of value....in thailand, the book might be sold for $5, and in the US, for $150.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sounds like arbitrage to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'same thing with medicine, it is much cheaper in other nations compared to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its obviously greed'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Oil shale was one of the first sources of mineral oil used by humans. Its earliest recorded use was in Switzerland and Austria in the early 14th century. In 1596, the personal physician of Frederick I, Duke of W|rttemberg wrote of its healing properties. Shale oil was used to light the streets of Modena, Italy at the turn of the 17th century.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and there are trillions of barrels of the stuff in the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the question is how exploitable it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is interesting that the US has about 60% of the oil shale reserves in the whole world.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also these aren't proven reserves, just estimates'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as technology gets better, more of it will become recoverable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats true, but its driven by the cost of oil'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'these current high prices support exploration, it might not be economically feasible at lower prices'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'canadian tar sands are recoverable at $22 a barrel right now....down from $60 5 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil shale is about the same right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'some oil shale needs higher prices though...like the huge deposits in colorado and utah...they need $120 barrel oil to extract right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'saudi arabia and kuwait produce their oil at a price of $1 a barrel to compare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the top 6 of the 10 largest shale oil deposits in the world are in the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banana boat sunscreen recalled due to.... fire risk?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dutch parliament proposes powers allowing police to hack into computers anywhere in the world and steal or destroy data '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'violent crime up 18%, housing prices down 2%, unemployment up 388,000 a week'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'i can't imagine why housing prices would continue to slowly drop after a housing bubble burst'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Lokathor boggles at the concept.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd think it'd go down faster'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'growth model finally busted ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's burst but hasn't realised it yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit like wile-e-coyote after he's ran off a cliff, but is still in mid air running'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nice analagy '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sandra Flue campaign stop draws 10 people'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Sandra Flute ? explain ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Sandra Fluke'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, twisted fingers means typing mistakes'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'twisted mind - sama sama'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'type of crazy genetic retrobate that should be expunged from politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'she became famous when Rush Limbaugh called her a slut for wanting employer covered contraceptive medical plans'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, nods'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's a crazed democrat feminist'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'makes some sense - if they promise that if they breed  claims are vioded n backpaid - maternal leave is a killer imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'find it odd that for the very most part, feminists are anti-womens rights'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'projection ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you've stated that you are against over population'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't this help keep the population down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I am - breeding should be a privelage - not a right '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't what help?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'insurance covered contraceptives'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'welfare cheques should be handed out with reversable stralization imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'about her specific argument that employers should pay for contraception? no, i don't agree, unless your job is a prostitute'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If I didn't already know you were a nazi, I'd know it now..'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't eat unless subsidised - don't breed more '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'her argument wasn't that employers should provide contraception'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'her argument was that insurance should provide contraception'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm sure that insurance could build in a fee to recover contraception costs + RU486 if not ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if your employer is providing your insurance, it amounts to the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just lemme guess - no agency wants to go first ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insurance won't go for it unless there's a demand'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Rann ? Nazi - me ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and aren't going to do it free since it'll cost them money'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it was addressing a double standard, in that insurace covered subsidized viagra'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i don't agree with that, though it could be because viagra treats a medical problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's splitting hairs and you know it :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'additionally, there' a cheaper method of contraception that medication'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol over a barrel then - insurance thinking those on viagra wont breed because of age '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes. You were channeling hitler there. Except he would have based in on race, but that's the same thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they're always going to offer the cheapest message'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cheapest form of contraception? abstention '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or anal sex.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in nature the strongest breeds .. in a capatalist society  .. should morror nature ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really relevent, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mirror ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'abstinence is fine in practice'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it works about 0% of the time in real life'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'was standing against a Nazi charge - brought nature to the party - Gaia kicks ass imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a trendy thing to sell'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If we are going to have selective breeding, which may or may not be a good idea, it should be based on something else than who has money and who doesn't, imho.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is pushing selective breeding?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(other than both wings of traditional politics)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the current climate is money mate - I don't like it but it is the prevailing culture and it is on the surface organic - supply n demand - we have little demand for welfare recipinets immo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you get different things in different countires'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'good to see sp is not only me - but we live in times where we pay dysfunctional ppl to breed - that is wrong imo - call me Nazi all you  want I don't take tags '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only a lefty would call you that, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh I was a Neo Nazi - I am not anymore - '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a culture of welfare dependance and entitlement doesn't make a strong society, it makes a destroyed society'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you paid for that neo-nazi label off the internet'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hence the rise of the east and the decline of the west - where are the "artistic benifits" of a bohemian life the west would allow under welfare ? hollywood ? Bah !'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, riots if Obama loses?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there won't be riots'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, i agree, you need a flashpoint'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That's just rumours from clearly fake accounts, spread by some evil fellow called Jones? :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'You paid for that neo nazi  label off the net .. explain that ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'just another 4-8 years of disproportionally favoring the extremely wealthy and depending on their generosity'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it'll be a bit worse than that since food prices are about to rocket'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on top of a devaluing currency'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tiger - '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'You paid for that neo nazi  label off the net .. explain that ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Food (and energy) inflation isn't real!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'talking about the way people throw labels like that at people willynilly, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern equivalent of getting phd's off the back of a cereal packet'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oh OK soz mate was thinking otherwise - yeah look I still have race speffic views - but they are based on personal likes\dislike s rather than on dogma '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you aren't allowed to talk about issues, Tzad, it's racist'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's how the limousine liberals close down debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'does racism exist?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'undoubtedly, though not on a scale that some want to make the rest of us believe'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I like White .. some white girls like black guys - there are websites devoted to em n every other perversion - I am natural imo - lol (with additives)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'point in case'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you're going to vote for Obama cos he black?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'black girls are the best'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(as another good example)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who is voting for Obama because he is black?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll never do away with base human tribalism'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'tribalism isn't the problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a large number of black people, apparently, including black celebrities'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what %age of black people voted for clinton?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea, i'm sure the stats exist somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'over 90%'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd imagine most black people didn't vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I imagine it was because he was black right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was there a black alternative to vote for?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I hark back to a deb I had the other night that were I a buisness owner in my old stomping grounds I would not hire a Oz black becuase of the problems associated with the race in the reigon - does not speak for all blacks everywhere - just a situation in central Oz atm '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so to prove they are not voting for Obama because he is black they should vote against him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's pretty weak logic'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, twyst, your logic is weak'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'black people and minorities in general have voted for democratic candidates for a long time'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but now because they are voting for Obama they are "reverse racists"'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how can you claim black people voted clinton because they're not racist as a counterexample to obama when there was no black candidate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm saying it is a confounding variable'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they didn't vote for Obama because he was black, or JUST because he was black'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i understand the political bias, twyst, but that doesn't change the fact that black celebrities are using it as a selling point'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is beyond a wash'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be no different to white right-wing celebrities coming out and saying "voting for romney cos he's white"'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that racist?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Usually 80-85% of blacks vote democrat, in 2008 about 95%? voted for Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'might be conincidence, of course'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'minus one n..'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'vote Coca Cola - buy it - vote ikea - buy it - democracy is a dollar a vote - imo it is a parady of itself we all "choose " to believe because we can't fix it while we work in jobs that have us back a status quo - so busy touching you toes you don't realise the assrape imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I would bet my life savings that the number of people who voted for Obama because he was black, were beyond counteracted by the people who didn't for the same reason'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite possibly'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't make it any less divisive'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I contend that modern politics is a distraction '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a long way from where we started tho'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'politics was awesome in the beginning because everyone who was different was excluded TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that sums up your position, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'am I wrong?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so ? run a terrorist flag at one end of the contry and then at the other end of the contry and watch your enemy bankrupt themselves chasing you ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think it's historically accurate, no'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'was a quote from a leading Al Quida figure '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'truth is the sword is now the dollar .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not for long'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'will be resource protection imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless it's a very blunt weapon caused by airdropped pallets of dollars on people'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'democracy - hitler rose to power on the back of economic collapse and preaching to the lowest common denominator - jeez they only get active when thier TV is cut - will be the same again imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably about right'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'reduce those numbers now with sellective breeding imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be interesting to see what happens when the food stamps stop'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't pay for yourself - can't pay for a kid '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'will speed up the demise of this system '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't pay for yourself - can't pay for a kid '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if that line makes me a Nazi then so be it '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not gonna subsidise "loafs" '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'life is in general a zero sum game'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not the government's purpose to subsidise people's lives, nor is it their purpose to tell people what to do, what to say, what to think, and how to live their life'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is there another side to the argument ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, some others have had a different idea, on both sides of the spectrum of politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why large democracies, and world government is such an epicly bad ideal'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Mentor always tells me about Milton/Mettalica - for whom the bell tolls - the funneral bell tolls for us all as a little piece of humanity dies each tieme a human dies .. there has t be something to this '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'For whom the bell tolls... it tolls for thee.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah - and why - yeah - mentor is smart in part - must be some thing there - I get the whole get the most out of every individual - but he11 they suck the life outta Gaia'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can do some serious stuff - must be something there '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be something of what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok we enter the insane world of UFOs - mentor can do some - extra phyisics stuff - spouts this stuff  - there must be something there ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Craig - I'm skimming'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'civic centre though ? nice safe life but ? .... die safe ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UFO's? really?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no more metaphyicical than that mate - dreamwalking '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama campaign borrows $15m from Bank of America'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why did Warren Buffet front up the cash instead, or has he spent his vast fortunes on ice cream?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why didn't, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'buffet has no cash, why should he?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absurd that the highest interest rate on a savings account here is 2.5%'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Anti-Muslim filmmaker won't go to court before election'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Whitehouse denies secret deal being tabled between US and Iran to delay their enrichment program'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama campaign accepted foreign Web donations'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'News Corps in talks to buy L.A Times and Chicago Tribune'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'wow that would suck'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Political connections played throughout Michelles young life in Chicago. Her father, Fraser C. Robinson III, who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in his 20s and eventually walked with the use of crutches, was a volunteer Democratic precinct captain in addition to his job in the boiler room at Chicagos water purification plant. As Democratic precinct captain, Robinson had power and influence, given his access to street money the Daley machine freely handed out at that time in Chicagos South Side to make sure black voters turned out to vote for Democratic Party machine candidates. The Chicago sources told WND the selection of Michelle Robinson for Obama was made by Jesse Jackson, and Jeremiah Wright agreed it would be a good combination. It all relates back to Trinity United and to the Jesse Jackson orbit of blacks here in Chicago who gave Obama legitimacy and helped him establish his identity as a black man from Chicago, Robyn explained.Michelle came from a political family'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Geez.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'gah!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she was intelligent even if she didnt really like to work. Wright knew Obama was gay, but he needed the cover of a wife if he were to succeed in politics.A current member of Trinity church who has known the Obamas for 20 years, Carolyn, confirmed Trinity helped a lot of blacks get successful and connected. Thats what Wright did for Obama, she claimed. He connected Obama in the community, and he helped Obama hide his homosexuality.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'someone gag him'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit wordy for you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and now you have gone off the deep end'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shld i tlk lk dis 4u u no? how dey do wit obamafones'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is there a sexual-fantasy channel -- Tigernuts seems to be in the wrong channel'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is there a fantasy channel (which includes sexual-fantasies) .. roleplay ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'imm, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if Barack is gay, that may explain why he likes getting screwed by the republicans'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'same argument may be used to allude that republican voters are gay -- they like getting screwed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I disagreed with your politics TN, but I didn't think you were a conspiracy theory subscriber'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'TigerNuts is a closet republican supporter slinging gay mud at Barack'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'oh he was obviously a republican supporter but that was pretty nuts, no pun intended'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'excellent, welfare check is here :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm glad i missed all the mud slinging whilst i was snaffling my supper'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a libertarian supporter thanks, mr and mrs troll'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'definitely not a troll'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quack?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but it is hard to take you seriously when you say Obama is a closet homosexual'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't say it, it was a piece done about Jesse Jackson'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well it was a wall of text, but I do believe there was some part which stated Wright helped Obama conceal his homosexuality'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'is that correct?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who knows what they got up to in their teenage years, it only needs them piss one person off and this sort of piece is the result'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't specifically claim that'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Thousands call Planned Parenthood for mammograms after Obama claim, despite them not offering that as a service'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I kind of hope Romney wins'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'PP doesn't directly offer a lot of things, instead shunting you to partners and satellites.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'America's in trouble no matter who wins'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFh0nIYNAyY&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that was always a given.  You don't raise your debt by half without consequences, and even if you mobilized in time to try to do anything about it it won't change in as fast a fashion as it did in the original direction.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if Barack was gay when Wright assisted him conceal the gayness, then since Barack is no longer gay, that indicates gayness is a curable disease, especially when concealed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'might explain his insistence on Obamacare not denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'universal free healthcare. such an expense that not even obama would touch it with a bargepole'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"I can't go after the healthcare insurance industry! they pay my campaign fees!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if Obamacare was any good, there would not be any reason to have as many exceptions as it's got.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'repeal and replace'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'can't tell you what I would replace it with, and we'll keep everything people like about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'seems like a common refrain'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"universal free *basic* healthcare" -- no expensive cosmetic,  no expensive life-extension, procedures '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck with that'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'weight loss wouldn't be covered by that, Zade.  And I think there's still some rumbling going on for a fat tax (some companies now even will fire you for not taking care of yourself, or drop you out of the running for raises/promotions).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cheap and required: yes, expensive or cosmetic: nope.  and debate/haggle/prorate the inbetween gray areas'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'universal healthcare requires rationing, which immediately renders it unfit for purpose'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'pretty sure nutritionists and therapy wouldn't, either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the obesity epidemic is a self-inflicted deathstyle choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not entirely true'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a combination of factors including sedentary lifestyle, poor quality nutrition, poor quality food, and chemical pollution'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and an inability to process iodine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"nutritionists" are confidence trickers and exaggerated liars -- nutrition is important but "professional nutritionists" (depending on customers) use too much hype'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seems we have a conspiracy theorist in the house'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers intently at Zade.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not to mention that they use pseudoscience, and that they use observational studies as proof'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Dr Oz is a hype-ster'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That include government agencies that recommend dietary choices'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I just can't watch Dr Oz, he's so full of bs'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is inexpensive nutrition, and there is overpriced nutrition with lots of excess hype and bs'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And then there is food.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the cheapest way to be nutritious is to buy organic.  It's even better not to buy at all and just grow your own, but manufacture eats up %300 of any savings you got from that by requiring far more time and effort (which, like raiders say, people generally don't have anymore).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I prefer eating food. Nutrition is not needed as long as we eat food. Real good. The stuff we have been eating for millions of years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'organic does not guarantee nutritious'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Dr Oz caters to those able to afford to spend thousands of extra dollars per year on the hyped products recommended on his show -- some products are okay in inexpensive moderation, others products are a hole in the pocket'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'arsenic and cyanide are 100% natural and organic :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only in certain forms'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and to say that buying organic is "the cheapest way" is pretty amusing'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when the majority organic products and outlets triple the price of goods the moment they slap that label on'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'soime "organic" foods may suffer from lack of hygeine and disease-control'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I just eat the stuff we've been eating for a long time, that we are adapted to. Animals, fruit and vegetables. Preferrably organic and preferrably animals that eat a natural diet (e.g. grass for cows).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the cheap non-organic chemicalized food is down to like 25% nutrients compared to Depression-era foods.  Just by removing those and doing nothing else, you can improve nutrition.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Almost never bying things with a label is a good way to get healthy food :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mass-produced government-regulated-for-hygeine assembly-line produced food is usually free of "organic diseases" in Canada -- unsure about the corrupt make=a-buck-fast USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you will get a much better return if you also build the soil health up, because healthy soil (microbes) lead directly to healthy plants, and healthy plants affect everything else in the food chain.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'modern humans must eat raw vegetables and raw fruit-vegetables these days -- processed foods are often devitalised'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'is that different from non-modern humans?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, but even raw our food no longer has enough nutrition to sustain us.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would you eat "processed" foods, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'take supplements'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so, if you are recommended to eat, say, 6 helpings of fruits and veggies you should probably be eating like 12.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rare minerals in the soil are what is important to plant nutrition -- when modern over-farming does not replace those rare minerals, the food-quality drops'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are people so lazy they can't even be bothered to cook their own meals anymore?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, yuna, frequently they are'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then they deserve to die early. Seirously, it doesn't take that long to cook a healthy meal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'cooking removes nutrients too'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As long as you possess rudimentary multitasking skills, you can cook a healthy meal in, like, 20 minutes, tops.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You are recommended 0.5 kg (1 pound) of fruit and veggies per day, and most people don't reach that. That is weird imho, I probably eat twice that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'by 12, I mean 12 raw servings.  Any type of preparation that alters the rawness removes nutrients, so you have to eat even more.  Just to intake 100% nutrients, you have to make yourself fat.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not all veggies are better raw. Some of them have more nutrients when gently cooked or fermented, e.g. the cabbage family.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a small amount of specific raw vegetables per day is usually sufficient --  the expensive 12 servings per day is expensive hype or the vegetables fruits are extremeely devitalised'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea cabbage is good against cancer too'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, you lose nutrients, but cooking the food enables you to get more of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, "have more" is incorrect, just that the nutrients are more bioavailable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr rapidly nods twice at Seltsimees Dagnir, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I love saurkraut, I eat loads of it (made myself, of course).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the hell is allegedly suggestions 12 servings of vegetables and fruits? The vegetable and fruits lobby?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Most vegetarians/vegans don't even that much fruits/veggies a day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It has made wonders for my tummy, I poop like a rock star now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ranrr: Like a rock star? What, violently?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'juiced clean raw cabbage (with juiced clean carrots for safe dilution) is 200x more potent than cooked cabbage'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I dunno, just heard that expression....'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who drinks cabbage juice?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nobody is recommending 12.  But that's the calculation for the typical type of intake.  It's based on the nutrient levels of modern foods (ie, the chemicalized non-organic stuff) compared to those SAME foods grown 50-70 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Most people just seem to eat a shitload of grains... which is a food we are not adapted to eating.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'bleached grains'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'juiced clean rutabagas (with juiced clean carrots and cabbage for safe dilution) is extremely potent for healing bone and teeth difficulties'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And we are especially not adapted to the new wheat that was invented in the 70s'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crazy as it sounds< Hans and Ranrr are both right'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr goes, "Heh."
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we've destroyed our soil health trying to maintain yields, and this leads to lesser-quality food to begin with.  Since we don't usually eat our food in the most-advantageous forms, we require supplements.  Without supplements, we need to simply eat more food.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and thus people get fat because they crave nutrition'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"*specific*" raw vegetables for specific healing and maintenance'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, people get fat because they're lazy idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'most fat people eat junk food , so not filling that nutrition'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm sick and tired of the "I need to eat this much to survive!" excuse. No you friggin' don't!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what Modi said.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because they eat rubbish food because they can't be bothered to cook, and they buy rubbish food because they'd rather spend their money on fags, booze, and sky tv. Such is a life as a welfare dependant'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what socialism does to a society :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've never heard of somebody's body screaming for food because they allegedly haven't had their daily required intake of vitamins or something.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mostly, it's their body wanting sugar, processed fat and whatnot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'btw, I just wanted to say that I eat pizza for dinner every day and I'm not fat. I usually add some olives too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'hey, im not on welfare:p'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'my statements don't even bother including those people Yuna.  This JUST applies to healthy eating.  If you aren't taking pills, you literally have to eat yourself fat to reach all the nutrition recommendations.  The ideal food intake stuff that most of us don't bother listening to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you fat, Modi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'republican greedy capitalism does far worse to society than socialism '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'a little:p'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'and I don't eat pizza every day because I'm lazy, I do it because it's my favourite!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'different poison, different symptoms Zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they both kill societies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Keep telling yourself that Tigernuts. It's funny how you keep harping on about how anyone who doesn't share your political views is a socialist on welfare when pretty no one on this MUD who don't share your political views has EVER been on welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone grab Yuna's pills, he's beginning to froth'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'republican greedy capitalism results in a starving USA populace with poor teeth -- like those inbred hillbillies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe the commonly adopted phrase is "Corporate Fascism", Zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm willing to bet poor dental hygiene in the U.S. is due to high dental care costs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'that could have to do with the inbreeding too'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How much is a simple dental check-up over there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'my teeth are fine and ive been to a dentist once in 20 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '~300 dollars'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'republican greedy capitalism with no medicare for the working poor -- starving tooth-missing cripples galore'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Was that a joke, Twyst?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do I look like I'm laughing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's seriously messed up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'that sounds about right'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We have free dental care (which includes braces for cosmetic reasons) up 'til one turns 21 and then a check-up costs, like, 150 bucks or something, at most.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i broke a tooth on a seed or something and it cost me $1200 to get fixed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I think a dental checkup in the US is more like $60. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And that's only for the most expensive, private dental options.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '600 for a check-up?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'without dental insurance, I pay $150.  I haven't shopped around (longtime family dentist), and when I first took over payment it was like $100.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Someone once said that the doctors excuse their ludicrous prices with "We get sued so much we need the money!". So... dentists get sued frequently for improperly done check-ups?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'they get sued for raping their patients'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I have a broken tooth.. not looking forward to get robbed when having that fixed... :('
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i'd do it now, the longer you wait, the more it'll hurt, trust me'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No wonder them medical lobby is fighting tooth and nail against Obamacare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Can't have Obama taking away their 600 dollar 30 minute procedures!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, I've been putting it off for a while, so I think it will hurt... probably need to have it pulled and replaced... *yikes*'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i had to get a root canal is all, but it sucked, they couldnt get it numb at first'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Were they 8 yearolds?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rannr: juiced clean rutabagas (with juiced clean carrots and cabbage for safe dilution) is extremely potent for healing teeth difficulties'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the hell eats rutabaga anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'is that like a turnip? i like those in stew'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It is nothing like a turnip'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I said $60 looking online It seems 80-150 for a simple cleaning.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Thanks, but I don't think it will heal a tooth where half has split away and fallen off....'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like a parsnip, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'thats how mine was'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'got my teeth cleaned like 3 weeks ago, it was 250 ish'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it varies I guess'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Been having trouble with that tooth for 20 years, so I guess it's time to get rid of it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Found a Group deal for a check-up, cleaning and polishing for 12 bucks last week. I was so happy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the $150 was just a recent deal.  A year ago I was paying $108 or so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'my brother had a pretty awful tooth thing turn sinus infenction, he was in pain for like 6 months, even after medical attention'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"juiced" converts vegetables into a drink form -- there is one caveat: the intestinal flora must be friendly with all that influx of juiced vegetable sugars'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's pretty much what we pay in Sweden past the age of 21 for a check-up + cleaning, I think.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm due for x-rays, though, and paid very-nearly minimum wage now it's going to destroy me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Actually, I don't worry too much about the cost or the pain of the procedure, I am just worried the doctor will yell at me for not coming earlier. I'd pay premium if I knew the doctor would not do that :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if stomach cramps and pains result from drinking raw vegetable juices -- then either the external and or internal hygeine was bad -- so swig on hot louisiana red pepper sauce'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I have genetically-superior teeth, though, so I don't worry about anything but the cost when I go every 6 months.  If it weren't for the general disgustingness of it, I wouldn't even need to brush my teeth.  Just let the dentist do it for me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decent teeth depend on decent nutrition'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'and prob flossing/brushing a bit'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I prefer not to juice stuff, it's not something we have been able to do for a long time, so I consider that a new food. I prefer getting the nutrients in their original package, with fibers and all the shebang.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I prefer to listen to the mouth doctor who told me I had genetically-superior teeth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'BTW, for tooth health I recommend reading the research from Weston Price, it's interesting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Suddenly I feel an overwhelming need to brush my teeth... wonder why... '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'modern toothpastes are far superior these days in that some additives prevent (or delay) decay for up to twelve hours when the diet is healthy with rare minerals and vitamin D (Colgate Total) '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'ancestral diets are far superior in that they don't cause tooth decay'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, I don't actually NEED tooth-cleaning products for actual tooth-health purposes.  Only reason I do use them is for comfort (food stuck in the gumline can get infected) and propriety (bad breath is offensive).  If it wasn't for that, I'd never brush/floss/use mouthwash.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No animal, including man, needs to brush his teeth to maintain tooth health, if they eat a natural diet they are adapted to. Tooth decay is bascically a byproduct of modern diet, and started more or less with agriculture.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'refined sugar'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'bollocks. we just live too long'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'and grains, and legumes'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'teeth were totally fine during the entire duration of average life span in the past'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so...my daily intake of 2 liters of soda isn't affecting tooth health in my case?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That would be true, Dagnir, if skeletons found with humans above average age, showed the same tooth decay as modern men at that age. It doesn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'don't get me wrong, soda helps'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In fact, there are pretty much no skeletons found with tooth decay from before agriculture.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'citation needed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Weston Price'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Google weston price foundation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's all there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And others can be found on pubmed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'err, these guys look "a little" biased'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'scientific study, maybe?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Read the original research by Weston Price'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, holistic research'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'can you give me a peer reviewed scientific study?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(a peer reviewed study not funded by vested interests)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Vincent Price,  Weston Price,  perhaps a trend'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Weston Price foundation was founded after the research was done, but you can choose to ignore it if you want.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Anyways, I don't have time to check for papers right now, but they are there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, coal is still very important in the U.S.?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the heck are people so desperate to be coal miners anyway? Is it because they can't find any other means of employment? Do you lack any kind of professional skill whatsoever? I mean, seriously, it's not a glamourous or well-paying job. It's dangerous (cave-ins, etc.) and long-term employment will almost inevitably lead to medical conditions (such as Black Lung Diease). It's not clean.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, seems they like.. electricity...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Heck, how many people in this day and age still use coal in their everyday life?! I'm not trying to talk smack at coal miners. Most of them most probably are very nice people. I just don't get the whole "Save our coal mines!!!!", "No anti-coal legislation!!!!", "Coal coal coal!!!!"-thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do YOU use coal to heat your house or get electricity, Ranrr?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'omg '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not as much now thanks to more Natgas supplies being recently found, but coal is still something like 2/3rds of our energy base.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is bashing coal miners?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No, I live in a civilized country :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'I wonder what the average IQ level is on this channel. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Most electricity comes from coal. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not everywhere.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The only people who actually use coal are pretty much people who barbecue, people who live in the woods and factories.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Do you use electricity?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(and power plants, of course)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the overwhelming majority of the world's power generation comes from coal'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sweden is pretty much 50% hydro and 50% nuclear.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not saying coal isn't valuable. I'm wondering why the coal workers are so up and arms about it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still heavily used in developing countries as a primary heat source'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are they up in arms about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People are all "Don't legislate against coal! That'll lead to greedy companies laying off people!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama made it a campaign promise to bash coal miners.  He somewhat followed through by making it prohibitive to open up new mines and coal-run powerplants.  His intent was to move us to alternative energy, but "If you elect me, I'm going to bankrupt the coal industry!" probably wasn't a very good idea.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do you need to legislate against coal? Leave it alone'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'I agree, it will be phased out by the market, no need to put more weight on it. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right. Just make it pay for the pollution, and alternatives will arise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we can legislate against it once solar and other forms of clean energy become competitive.  %18 efficacy is not competitive with a product that at its least-efficient form is putting out at least three times that much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's pretty much what I meant by "leagislation agaisnt it".'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why isn't the U.S. more nuclear?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absurd'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Three-mile Island, basically.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Hard to get Permits and start-up costs are ridiculous. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying you can never erect any new skyscrapers due to 9/11'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you scare the shit out of a couple hundred million people, bad things will ultimately follow.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'takes like 10 years to break even'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and 3MI didn't even get to the Chernobyl point.  There wouldn't even be any power plants had that happened.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, nuclear ones, I mean.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In Sweden we almost had a nuclear meltdown a year ago, and out power plants are 40 years old... but nobody is too worried.... except the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'You are not reffering to that vaccum cleaner now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'coupled with the fact our near-miss happened in the densest-populated part of the US, it's pretty easy to see why they don't embrace nuclear power more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, that was just the tip of an iceberg'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'They were testing pressure inside reactor. A nuclear meltdown couldn't happen during those circumstances.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Nuclear Power is much safer now than it was 20 years ago. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But yeah, a vacuum cleaner almost caused a nuclear meltdown. They were minutes from dropping the core.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'New(er) nuc plants are basically immune to meltdown'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the fuck did they place a nuclear power plant in a densely populated area, anyway?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right. Our plants are not new.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Because it looks so nice?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'kind of ironic that a mere 110 volt (or whatever is the euro equivalent) broke the camel's back at a power plant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thorium reactors are immune to meltdown*'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's 230 here'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lol. euro equivalent of a volt :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '110V is still 110V in the eu ;)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: '110V in US is 27 pounds in EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US is the only country the world to use 110V, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Japan'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Japan only uses it because they're so short'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'firstly, it wasn't as populated and they thought there was plenty of room to keep 3MI isolated.  Secondly, the baby boom was still running at somewhat-high capacity and zoning commissioners were all "Why the fuck aren't we using all that land?!".  Thirdly, when 3MI was built the civilian population didn't really make the connection yet that you didn't need a large bomb to have fallout so there wasn't that (perceived) sense of danger associated with nuclear power.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Uh... a bit slow, are we today?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never understood what people have against Coal power'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'chores gave me lag, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not against coal power as whole. I just find this whole "There's a war against coal miners!" debacle ridiculous.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never heard the comment before'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's certainly a war against coal power stations'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's because it's pretty new.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we can thank the epitomy of sovereignty and democracy "The UN" for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there were several research studies showing the devastating effects of acid rain on forests'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They needed studies to ascertain that acid rain is bad for trees?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some coal plants caused acid rain'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you do realise that the sum total of emissions from modern clean coal burners is co2 and water vapour, zade? '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the acid rain study was done mid last century'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was from sulphur dioxides, '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'largely from petrol and diesel engines'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'in a whole different millennia'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's technically not against the miners.  It's more against the power companies.  A good analogy is the war in the middle east.  You hate the government, not the soldiers.  But the suits aren't over there shooting holes in "civilians".'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but also from just about any burning process'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's my point, Hanslanda.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'forests are also devastated by nitrous oxides '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People are all "Think about the coal miners!" - No, why? It's not about them. if they get laid off, it's because the greedy coal companies want to earn some more money than they're already earning. No coal company is actually losing money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looking for your point, Zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'my point, though, is that you can't work against one without affecting the other.  You take away coal and suddenly you are DIRECTLY impacting the miners you supposedly aren't hating on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, so WHAT if you lose your job as a coal worker? It's like you're proudly stating that it's all you're capable of being: A coal miner. It's a BAD job. It will inevitably KILL you or at least seriously shroten your lifespan.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most of the whining is from the coal companies execs'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hanslanda is correct'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody's taking away coal.''
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's why we're working so hard to develop cleaner energies, yes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most of the whining is from the coal companies execs that are bribing/scaring the coal workers '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, let's put it in the form of analogy. You have 3 companies providing portable music players. You decided you didn't like Apple products, so you put a large tax burden on them, they lose money and shed jobs'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some coal miner's family was protesting with signs. Wife and 2 kids. The daughter's sign proclaimed she was proud of her coal miner father. Sure. I'd be proud of a guy who apparently has no skill besides manual labour and who makes close to minimum wage and who'll inevitably die much sooner than most people who AREN'T coal miners as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those job losses are a direct result of your policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is no different with COal'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody is LOSING money on coal!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They are only MAKING less money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most of the whining is from the coal companies execs that are bribing/scaring the coal workers into also whining sycophantic cowardly dogs of selfish greed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I don't quite think you understand the concept of free markets, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'of course, like I said, it's hard to compete against something that's three times as productive as you are.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't quite think you understand the concept of NOT LYING, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'few people will downgrade like that, and of those that do swap up many will swap back after realizing they fell for more hype.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps the coal miners family were paid actors recently hired/bribed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or idiots. I think they're just idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Who do you think you are, that inquisitor from Harry Potter 5?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: '5? How many are there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '7, elf'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'wow'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because I'm calling people idiots?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'many, many more than you see on the news.  You can count on a really large group of silent supporters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's because they're idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seriously, how about trying to find better jobs for their friends and family? Coal mining is a hazardous, near-toxic and low-paying job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'different industries shrink and grow as technology and society progresses... get over it...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about you get off telling people what they should and shouldn't be doing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'any extraction type business should pay extra taxes equivalent to slightly more than the estimated environmental cost of their activities, imo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If someone can't find any job BESIDES being a coal miner, then it sucks for them. But they really should try to find other jobs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'sadly, more available education and knowledge doesn't make people more intelligent :('
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Instead of spending time and energy protesting Obama's policies to support alternate (clean) energy, let's try to spend our time doing something productive instead of trying to protect the capitals gains of our corporate masters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not about finding the job, it's about the time investment as you retool and relearn.  That down time means you perhaps don't feed/clothe/shelter your family.  It gets much worse if you have to now take 2-3 jobs to maintain.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama doesn't support alternate clean energy, he supports paying out vast fortunes of tax payers of money to white elephants and deliberate fraud corporate welfare sinks'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The problem with Obama's green energy subsidies is that it's trying to scale up an industry before it reaches a reasonable cost level'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Modern coal is cleaner than solar or wind, yet he shut them down'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'ie. it's a waste of money'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Funny how Sweden doesn't rely on coal anymore then.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'HERESY! Coal plants emit co2 which kills everything'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet we're still standing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not to mention that solar and wind are often based directly on top of coal/fossil energy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because sweden has about 15 people'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'two words - pigouvian tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'But those 15 need alot of power'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sweden also has huge potential for very large-scale power from hydro, tidal, geothermal'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Since solar/wind energy production can not be matched to consumption, it can not be more than a marginal source of electricity until we get way better storage methods'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it's because we're not idiots. We rely on nuclear energy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'not tidal though'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what is that?  I saw you talking about it previously, but it sounded bad so I didn't bother exploring the link you gave.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'tax eternalities, let the market sort it out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is a tax that account for the incidental costs of things'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '51% of our energy production comes from nuclear energy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and until you have the lower cost/better storage, it's a really bad idea to try to ramp up production with subsidies, unless there's some catastrophic alternative cost'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where does your uranium come from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Onlt 3,4% of our energy production comes from coal/oil/whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't know, the magical uranium mines of Mars? How about the U.S. stops making and creating new nukes and use their uranium for nuclear power plants?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'nuclear energy, at least in the US, is subsidized all the way from Uranium mining up to electricity delivery, and even with gov't taking the tail costs (insurance liabilities beyond legal caps), there's very little interest in building new plants'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'from Russia and Canada mainly if you google it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In other words: People are idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which means (1) Even after susidies, it's not really profitable or (2) nuclear energy CEO's don't want to make money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or just greedy. Probably both.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'People are SSS - Stupid, Selfish, Short-sighted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada smiles happily.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'It's more like SSSs'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home we have a magical device for fixing things like this... taxes/quota auctions...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have the elderly freezing to death in the winter thanks to UN and their stupid fucking obsession with CO2 and windmills'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where the FUCK are your elderly living, Tigernuts? In the woods?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'entirely your govt's fault - don't blame others'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is the governments fault for signing onto a crackpot UN scheme'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure social security's supposed to keep the elderly's houses warm.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they'd be freezing even without that tiny price differential'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tiny price difference? electric and gas have gone up 18% in the last 2 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'social security can't even keep one meal on the table, much less 3.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what the FUCK did they do for the rest of their lives if they can't afford to pay for electricity during the winter months?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's largely due to spikes in commodities'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welcome to the socialist idea,  Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have the ones that had low paid work or scrounged their whole lives, and you have the ones that worked hard and saved for their retirement'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, TigerNUTS, in Socialist Utopia, people DON'T freeze to death during the winter months.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'From what I've seen, roughly 80% of the population in any wealthy country lives from paycheck to paycheck'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and you know, if they really reduced reliance on these things, don't you thing the prices would have dropped instead?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they worked hard.  Many of the highest-paying jobs now weren't nearly as high-paying back then.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'supply and demand...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so if no one forced them to save, they don't have anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only for sucecssive socialist and capitalist governments steal and devalue their pensions'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because in a socialist (not communist) country, if you can't afford your electricity bill, the government will pay/subsidize it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and int he end, unless you're one of the 1%, pensioners struggle'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I doubt anybody's actually freezing to death in the U.K., of all places.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And wasn't that UN bill signed this year?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, 1992'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, some 1992 bill. Yeah, sure. Thousands of U.K. pensioners are freezing to death each year and only YOU know about it, Tigernuts! They ahve been for 20 years too!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sounds legit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you frothing about now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home they "force" people to save for retirement. Socialism! Oh no!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'with many being in some religious group that insinuates that birth control is immoral but regular sex with your spouse is not, a lot of families grew large out of both principle (child mortality rates, who the hell are you to tell me what to do in my house?!) and practicality'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We have that in Sweden. A percentage of your paycheck is squared away in a pension fund. I think the U.S.:ians call it 401ks? Maybe? Anyway, it's mandatory.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did that here too, then stole it all because it was a ponzi scheme called "national insurance", which is known as "social security" elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get pretty much the same pay-out whether you paid in or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how terrible, fewer shiny baubles while working, and all you get is the ability to feed yourself when retired...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's not remotely enough to live on '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'See, that's because you've been ruled by CONSERVATIVE parties for the last, what, 3 decades?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err no, labour'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '401k's are optional, and not at all the best option in the first place (money goes in before you pay taxes on it, when you go to take it out you pay more taxes then).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, don't blame the UN yfor your govt screw ups. Their not responsible if your social safety nets are badly implemented.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sigh'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Labour Party ruled the U.K. for 3 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i will blame them, it's their idea'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the labour party rules the UK from 1995 to 2010'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh wait, 13.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi . o O ( I must've been on the internet too long )
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah, sorry then. I thought Tony Blair was a consevative. I don't care about U.K. politics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it shows'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that the conservatives are much better'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your politics rarely, if ever, affect me, so I don't really care.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and if you change jobs, rolling over your 401k takes a cut for penalty taxes as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your 401k is affected by a job switch? The pension fund is a government run thing that's unaffected by job switches here in Sweden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'After some years, lots of people thought Blair was a conservative'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many things screwed up pensions here, Gordon Brown levied a tax on existing private pensions which reduced everyones pots. The lack of regulation over the world meant many went belly-up leaving the person who paid in out of pocket'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '401k are individual retirement accounts, you are thinking of social security insurance'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but like everything else, they're mostly based on the markets, and the markets are screwed'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Everything I know about how policies and stances scream "Conservative".'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, if you are no longer employed there you don't get to put any money into it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the difficulties in Britain are likely due to the greedy mindset that restricts competition and the sheeple mindset that deters the sheeple from improving both themselves and societies lot -- the upper class are defrauding the sheeple  (?)  (with inspiration from the USA)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well yeah, you don't get to do that in Sweden either. They take a set percentage our of your PAYCHECK, after all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our national "pension" system has individual accounts, making it harder to plunder...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But you don't actually LOSE any money for switching jobs. You just don't get to put any money into your pension fund for as long as you're unemployed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Singapore sounds like some kind of Asian Sweden, Sonshi.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not inspiration, zade, the people who rule over the 1% in USA -are-the-same-people- that rule over the 1% in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's also no issue with the retirement age, since the accounts are inherited anyway if the holder dies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Faux Noise, the Mouthpiece of the Tea Party, is actually owned by Ruper Murdoch (a Brit).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sweden? We have the death penalty!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So Tigernuts' got a point (for once).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's much better to go with a Roth, you pay your taxes up front and if for any reason you had to take some out early you don't pay any taxes at all so long as the amount you're taking early is less than the amount you put in (principal instead of interest earned).'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm, this roth thing sounds like quite the loophole'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you can only put 5k a year into it'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'vs 16.5k for a 401k'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's say you work for 40 years. That's 200k. Not much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, my math's bad.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No wait, it's right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still, 20k, not much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is 200k in principle'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'most workers won't come close to 16.5k, plus an IRA is pretax money so you won't get anywhere near most of it back.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'at 5% for 40 years that is more'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well yeah.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hard to retire on 200k...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still, not that much if you plan on living for, I don't know, 10 years after you retire.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if the market doesn't crash insanely'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for that matter, most companies won't match anywhere close to 8.25k, since between you and employer you can't go past 16.5k anyways.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it will be more than a mill'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's where financial management strategy comes into play, Yuna.  You go aggressive early on, so you can make (or lose, to be fair) large piles of money.  As you get closer to retirement, you transfer to safer investments so that you don't take any losses and/or don't make any money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1 mill won't be much in 40 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1 mill isn't much even now'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Exactly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's more than most people will ever earn in their life'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home the contribution rate to the national (forced) plan is about 35% of base pay. They change the rate every now and then to match eocnomic conditions, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you plan on living 10 years past retirement, 1 mill is barely enough to have you living a comfortable life of eating well and living comfortably.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You'd think you'd want to be able to do more in your twilight years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You keep saying "Back home". Where are you currently, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you have a house a mill is plenty for 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '35% is a decent amount to maintain a similar standard of living to what you're used to too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: '100k per year is pretty comfortable'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'studying in the us'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '35% of what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '35% of base pay'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i couldn't live off 35% of my pay'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now you're just riling Tigernuts up for one of his anti-Socialism diatribes, Sonshi!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people could not'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'factor in the interest and financial activity generated from that, and it won't actually be 35%.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, the idea is that you work for 40 years at about 80% of your base pay, then the 35% saved will tide you over for your retirement'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're having to raise taxes and force people to have pensions here because nobody has had remotely enough money to pay into one for the last 20 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you get 80% of your base as pretax take home, while 35% or so goes into retirement'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's pretty much how it was around the world.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's pretty much how it is in the Nordic countries.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(except our taxes are higher)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so unless you're retired for over 25 years, or spend a lot more in retirement, you ought to be fine with the same standard of living'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But we generally make more as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '1,000,000 / 10 == 100,000 (but that wastes the principal) --  2% pa of 1m is 20,000 pa '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you don't force people to save, a significant proportion will blow it all and end up starving/freezing in winter for those countries with winter'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'only bums and drunken morons freeze to death here'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and we get -30C winters'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, according to tigernuts, plenty of pensioners are freezing to death in the UK because of some globalist UN plot'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are struggling because of it, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's ok, they're only struggling now'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lol. reading about the coldest winters in the uk. -16C :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be getting warmer, dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like I said, whether they are struggling or not is due to how good or crappy your govt is. Can't blame the UN when their initiatives are so weak, and hardly influence prices'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already said it was the government's fault for signing onto them, they should have refused like the USA did'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm pretty sure tigeruts will start to talk about lizard people and the illuminati soon'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's DosseT's and Chemosh's job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts only supports them silently  and sometimes openly, but he won't argue their cases FOR them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cases for what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'signing on to it or not makes hardly a difference, economically. We sign up for all sorts of these things too, but we hardly notice because our govt... you know... actually tries to run the country.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, he's been saying that obama is a gay muslim, so it's the next logical step'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, he did? I was busy in another window.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there was definitely something about obama being a closet homosexual today. it's only a small step away from being a secret homosexual reptiloid'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'makes as much sense, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama's sexual orientation or reptilian illuminati genes don't seem to affect his policies much, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I believe Tigernuts supports the notion that Obama may or may not (because he's a weasel, so he'll only insinuate) be a muslim because he wears a ring that bears what is in no way, shape or form a Muslim engraving, yet fucktards are claiming it's got some Arabic prayer engraved on it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a notion that only you have made, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also my bet would be on Obama being an atheist/non-believer'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada meeps! Maybe you should too!
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thinking he's a muslim is just plain fucking retarded'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's what you actually said last week or the week before that, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your early on-set Romnesia is acting up again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nah, can't be. romney actually flips to a sane position every once in a while. doesn't stay there long, but at least he visits'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well you will have some good positions when you take all of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir rapidly nods twice, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wonder what they'll call Paul Ryan's inability to NOT lie every 5 minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the man has to sleep'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lyanism?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I bet he lies in his sleep.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'unless he's a secret robot, of course'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wrong sort of lying'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm pretty sure he's a robot'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's Romneybot's job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'seems to me like factual inaccuracies and misrepresentations are fairly evenly distributed across political parties'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'them marathon times he said he had. not human'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You haven't been paying attention lately, then Tinada.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'maybe not'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its human, it would just have put him in 85th place in the last olympic marathon'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm sure he is that good'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Both parties lie, but the Republicans lie more often and lie BIGGER.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Paul Ryan and Yuna would get on well'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or maybe I see things differently because I don't support any party or candidate'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and apparently consider different things to be important'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or you don't support either because you see things differently...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Sonshi's question.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'PolitiCheck fact-checked the Vice Presidential debate. Their verdict was pretty much that they both lied or stretched the truth, but Ryan lied more brazenly. As in blatant lies, big lies, stupendous lies only the ignorant would fall for.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'won't mention the Benghazi incident with Pig Crowley then'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the presidential debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is the big deal with the Benghazi incident?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'd rather they reform the political system of the U.S., but as things stand, I can support either the party that's pretty OK or, in my view, evil incarnate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'romney is fun, but i was hoping for santorum/bachmann 2012 :('
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, personal attacks on the moderator...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The curious thing about the vp debate was that someone had replaced Biden with a grinning sociopath'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that was rather unsettling'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'vp debate was awesome'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Have you NOT seen the Preisdential Debates?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney grins MORe and WIDER.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not with your glasses, Yuna :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'butbutbut he called it an act of terror! That's not a terrorist act, or a terror act, or...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Biden openly laughed in Ryan's face, though, which was awesome.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because that punk is a fucking liar.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Twyst, Obama claimed he said on the day that it was a terrorist attack despite not having said that, and the position of him and his government was that it was an unplanned mob assault caused by the Anti-Muslim video that got released'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'they all have permanent shit-eating grins on tv'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ms Cowley backed up his lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No he didn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he did call it a terrorist attack on day one, regardless'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not ONCE did he during the debate state that he said it ON THE SAME DAY.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what difference does that make to the situation'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he could have called it ballet dancing'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what these fact-checker sites get off on'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I fail to see how that matters'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I believe he said it a day after or so. The moderator said that he said it two days after the act.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he should have said in the clearest possible terms "I condemn this act of terror, this terror act, this terrorist act, this terrorist attack, this attack by terrorists..."'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't see that it matters much which exact words Obama used to describe the Benghazi attack.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So stop LYING, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I actually watched that debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '4 days after, Panetta was still briefing it to be a flashmob protesting against the movie'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Introducing some obscure video as a cause was sort of odd'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i actually watched the debate, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is what the CIA told Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet you're blatantly lying about what Obama and the moderator said in that debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'perfect information isn't available through the fog of war'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'terrorist-minded muslims were incited into an an unplanned mob assault caused by the Anti-Muslim video that got released'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not lying, i saw the same debate as you'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And there was no way for them to know for sure if it was a terrorist attack on day one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You are fucking lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he did call it an act of terror...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you just live in a reality distortion field, nuts'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he called it an act of terror'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a terrorist attack'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama did NOT say (during the debate) that he calld it a terrorist attack on day one. And neither did the moderator back it up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the substantive difference being?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'oh no stop the presses !!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he called it an act of terro'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama said "Read the transcripts" and the moderator said "He DID call it that TWO DAYS after the attack".'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'an act of terror i think he said'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you are fucking lying, TigerNUTS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh sure, so you really do want him to be so clear as to say "I condemn this act of terror, this terror act, this terrorist act, this terrorist attack, this attack by terrorists..."'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it doesn't matter what he says for 2 reasons'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'actors (paid by ?republicans?) to pose as terrorist-minded muslims incited into an an unplanned mob assault caused by the Anti-Muslim video that got released (?) (or maybe a publicity stunt)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '1) it really doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who ARE you, Lyin' Ryan's less truthful cousin?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're happy that Obama was saying a completely different thing to his foreign office?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '2) conservatives will attack him for it regardless'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'More interesting is why the ambassador was there in the first place, and why the requests for additional security/warnings about potential attacks led to nothing useful.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lying so often and brazenly. As IF I can't just link you to a Youtube clip of that segment.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: 'Sociopath lesson #1 Tiger-NUTS: If you think you are the only one in the room that is right, you're wrong. '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'might have something to do with the cutbacks for embassy security that Ryan voted on in the house'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts, you were just caught LYING. And now you're trying to change the subject to cover your ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is PATHETIC.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'bleh. just stop giving him ammo'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as long as the room doesn't contain Yuna and Twyst, then it'll right for as long as it correlates with the Democrat Bible according to Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'where they the only request? Do republicans somehow have a tougher stance on embassy security by more often honoring such requests? can we focus anymore on a sample of one at the expense of the larger picture?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'we ARE feeding the troll, you know'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'these things happen all the time, but this one is a conspiracy, is that what i'm hearing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'i like to think that I debate you on the points TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if disagreeing with you makes me a troll'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'then i am a troll'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ANd how the FUCK would better security have been able to prevent that attack, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'although not 2 hours ago you claimed Obama was a closet homosexual'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/17/romney-obama-debate-fact-check?newsfeed=true'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The terrorists would've just lobbed a bomb at the building with a giant slingshot of something. If terrorist wants to bomb your house, they're gonna do it unless you encase it in a bomb-shelter/bunker!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney's surprise at being called out over the claim is perhaps understandable because in the days that followed, the administration stuck to the line that the assault was a response to the anti-Muslim video. The White House sent the US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, to say that on television talk shows the following weekend. No mention was made of a terrorist attack.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'are you saying that they are in some way excusing it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What DOES IT MATTER?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who cares WHY it happened, it did'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm saying that they didn't get their facts straight'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, like his campaign staff doesn't read obama's speeches to prepare for romney's talking points...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"We think it was an act of protest from some maniacs" "Oops, we were wrong, it was terrorists".'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a flashmob isn't an organised terrorist attack'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'AND?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they missed it, they're incompetent'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there is a discussion about getting their facts straight'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'might go either way'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we KNOW for a matter of FACT that Romney didn't get his facts straight'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what exactly was that Guardian article supposed to prove, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'his kneejerk apologizing for america tirade that same day?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'BULLSHIT'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'another of the dozens of fact checking sites that pop up after the presidential freakshow'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some of them even have different facts!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe because you frequent right-wing tea party sites?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I think someone once said that there are no version of the truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but listening to you guys, i'm not surprised that quite often facts don't agree even with each other'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm surprised you can only support DosseT and Chemosh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a flashmob of looks-like terrorists are yet terrorist-minded and look like terrorists (until down-played to softcore terrorists)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And not expect flack for it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're arabic so they must be terrorists, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaane: '*facepalm*'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some jewish-actors look arabic'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i forget sarcasm doesn't work in text'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yep, sarcasm clearly doesn't work in text.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's hard to discern when you're being sarcastic because you say insane stuff so often.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or could just be you're an imbecile'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'jewish-actors used to play nazis in those post-wwii war films -- if you were taught to dislike the "nazis" in those films, you were taught to dislike jewish-actors'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think me and my 300 are going to vote for Obama now.  Forget standing around in long lines at the end of voting day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'jewish actors' characters you mean?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I just find it weird that you were railing against the 1% earlier TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't seem internally consistent'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pardon?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a kid is not going to distinguish between a "jewish actor" and the character - bad-looking nazis'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts likes to sometimes complain about the rich to make it less glaring that he constantly refers to anyone who isn't a Conservative a socialist, communist and/or welfare recipient.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, just two months ago, he claimed to be an independent.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gotta keep up pretenses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Want some chocolate powder do go with your foam, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a child may distinguish between Charlie Chaplin and Adolf -- if not, then Adolf was so comedic and lovable  (grin)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'According to those Issa hearings, in March and July there were requests for additional security for the Benghazi consulate. In April someone threw explosives over the consulate wall. In June someone blew a large hole in the consulate gates. Also the British ambassador and the Red Cross were attacked. In the days prior to sept. 11th, local guards/security/wannabe-intel peeps were quite worried. So it looks like it might have been a good idea to do something about security and just maybe not send the ambassador there around that date.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'pretty sure Tigernuts thinks Obama is a socialist/communist because  he went to school in such-and-such countries and his father was a whatnot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna trying to tell us that Obama is not a socialist or a communist?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Issa also released the names of Libyan cooperators putting their lives in danger and hampering further cooperation'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sorry, let me edit that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts claims Obama is a communist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama is neither a socialist or a communist'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is he?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama, like most not-insane people of the 2010's, shares some socialist values because a society completely devoid of socialism would be idiotic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you keep using these words. i don't think you know what they mean'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they mean a variety of things to a variety of people, since both are very broad'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for example, wealth redistribution from the rich to the poor through taxation is a socialist ideal'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we really need the Chinese to run things here.  They know how to get things done.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we redistribute as a point of pragmatic economic policy. Well, my country does, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'and what ideal is the rich robbing the poor and hording all the wealth?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'centralisation control or ownership of all resources is a communist ideal'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what do you think is happening and has been happening?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '4 ish major news conglomerates'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it is, and just think of all that can be done in the world if the two biggest economies were of like mind?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we also have some nationalised industries. But Only as a point of pragmatic economic policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '5 ish major banking conglomerates'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if in order to be 'a socialist' you have to subscribe to every text book policy and nuance of that school of thought, then nobody is anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '4 ish major cell phone carriers'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying you're a Nazi if you're homophobic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'unregulated capitalism will lead to this "centralised control" etc that you were talking about'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'to be socialist you have to believe in redistribution *beyond* what pragmatic policy would suggest'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even in our political labour party here are people who've been communists, green party, trade unions, conservatives, liberal democrats'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'to be communist, you'd have to want to nationalise stuff *beyond* what is beneficial in a largely free market economy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who decides what is beneficial? who decides what is pragmatic?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well thats what republicans are saying obama is doing'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if Obama was communist he would have nationalized the banks when he had the opportunity'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or the car companies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or the mortgage companies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Basic economics?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mm, basic economics, because that's worked out well'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'take for instance my country's COE/ERP (traffic congestion) programs...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't you support Trickle Down Economics, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a high level of govt control there, but we've reduced negative externalities brought on by congestion, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or a series of bad movies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't support economists at all, i swear everyone would be better off if they were all rounded up and sent to Australia'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we provide a good education to our people, and ensure they have decent housing... as a result, you have lower crime, the businessmen have lower security costs and a stronger workforce... everyone's happy'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Tigernuts and goes "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or at least, everyone benefits'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what, you don't give them cars, too?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'and because if you break the law over there you get your ass caned?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, we have good public transport. Cars clog up roads, so they're really expensive...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The main problem with economics is that it was taken over by an almost pure quantitative (math) paradigm, and practitioners have limited (qualitative) insight, and way too much faith in imperfect/flawed models.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why our average working class guy doesn't complain about rising petrol costs anymore!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your country is not really normal though'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, it's a city'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I bet grocery shopping is a pain in the ass over there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but you'd be hard pressed to find a city that's run as well elsewhere.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Ring is a U.S. remake of Ringu. The Grudge is a U.S. remake of Ju-On.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there are usually plenty of shops nearby'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan, obviously.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd imagine Hong Kong is the nearest equivalent country?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the capitalists also depend on socialism: of society providing the menial populations for the armies and law enforcement and builders and laborers to build and maintain the infrastructures (and the service industry to provide services) and the menial population to provide customers -- if 99% of the populace of the USA disappeared (from the USA), the remaining 1% are defenceless against foreign invaders'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we have blocks of flats planned around a small commercial area, with markets, food courts, doctors, dentists, groceries, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hong kong is pretty poorly run, lots of slums'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's true everywhere, Zade.  Did you NOT read Animal Farm?  And look at China?  That's a successful country full of poor people with just a couple outfits.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'socialism may be viewed as capitalism benefitting the whole (and not merely the greedy selfish rich parasiting on the whole)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'again, China.  China's an even better example of Animal Farm than Russia was.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hope you realise there isn't likely to be a right or wrong answer in an ideological debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'theirs not usually a right or wrong in any debate, or anything worth debating'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why debates should focus on pragmatic policy rather than ideology'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's always both in any discussion of any kind.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people on here tend to forget that...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately that's not always possible, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, i don't believe people should be subjected to constant nannying, monitoring, and interference from government'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's just ideology...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it cannot be cast off by saying 'that's just ideology''
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in a debate, there are two right answers and two wrong ones.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depends on what you mean by "Constant nannying".'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor do i agree with the sentiment of having to work 60% of my work week for free'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name some of these alleged cases of government nannying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you ever in your life visit a hospital or use the roads, it's not for free.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'drinking, smoking, eating, diet, exercise'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're saying peopel should pay according to their consumption?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There are no laws that prohibit drinking, smoking, diet, exercise. I don't know about laws against eating specific things (or rather selling specific things for eating), though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there should not be any objection to taxing stuff that's a large burden on others'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, how is the U.K. governemnt "nannying" the British populus when it comes to drinking, smoking, eating, dieting and exercise?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'as a 16-year-old, I can't actually smoke, drink, or have sex.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taxation, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can ahve sex Hanslanda. Just not with someone over/under the age of consent dependong where you fall.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not fucking nannying!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, did you watch any of the actual-crime docu-programs currently on the Investigation-Discovey channel -- when humans go bad, they go bad bad -- maybe some of those bad humans may interact with you soon and teach you a lesson on the values of socialism'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And they're taxing dieting and exercise?!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There you go again, being weasely.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax is being used to influence behaviour'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what duty is for'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Investigation Discovery -- a depressing channel'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How is the U.K. goverment taxing dieting and exercise?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are penning a 'fat tax''
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yah?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Smoking, drinking and obesity has a cost to society due to medical costs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they are taxing based on health, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and driving has a cost on roads'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Driving has a net gain for society.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the FUCK does drinking, smoking and obesity contribute to society?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'contributes tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not everything is about your idea of society'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about free will'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how is that fat-tax to be levied without becoming also you-starve-if-you're-poor tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You STILL have free will, you idiot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some people just now CHOOSE not to drink, smoke or eat unhealthy food because it'd cost them more.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no objection to a levy to cover the direct health costs, but anything ABOVE that is just behaviour conditioning'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's what you don't grasp'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK would you tax that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tax is ABOVE direct cost, it's behaviour modification'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"You, you smoke and got lung cancer! 500,000 quid levy for you!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not behaviour modification. You still retain free will.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're misusing the English language again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you running on about now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And more just using weasel-language.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you tax something to make it unaffordable, how is that then free will?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you really that retarded?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He who is a Brit yet cannot differentiate between "modificiation" and "influence" needs to go back to school.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "fat" are also less intelligent than normal as the fat cells compress and reduce the braincells '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So I should sue the makers of expensive jewelry because I might covet their jewelry but not be able to afford it, claiming they're infringing on my... free will rights?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost grabs some popcorn and sits back to watch the show.
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the fat tax will probably be instituted similar to income tax.  You pay or receive a refund based on where your real income falls at the end of the year.  Could also be something included in such audits, or something required to be reported every time you went to the doctor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the difference is the jewelry hasn't gone up in cost'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tech Bloke Danj: 'can I just say, unhealthy food costs _less_ than healthy food, at least around here'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where's the logic here?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course jewelry has fucking gone up in cost.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tech Bloke Danj: 'they don't need to make unhealthy food cost more, they need to make healthy food cost _less_'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you go out to the movie every saturday, it costs around $10'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'jewelry is primarily gold and silver, so...duh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tech Bloke Danj: 'no, I have an Unlimited Card'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suddenly, the government decides movies are unhealthy, slaps a 1000% duty on it, it now costs $100'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tech Bloke Danj: 'which is #14.99 a month'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, and?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can no longer go to the movies because it's too expensive'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you stop going to the movies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You still retain your free will. You can choose to go to the movies, but you probably choose not to because it's so expensive now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not free will. that's coercian'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tech Bloke Danj: 'it's extortion'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some movies teach children to be killers '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it's fucking extortion'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's a fucking HUGE difference between the government DISCOURAGING going to the movies by making it expensive and the government PREVENTING you from doing so entirely by making it illegal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tech Bloke Danj: 'you're thinking of videogames :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bullshit, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'find an instance where the extra tax on a good is above negative externalities'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not video-games, movies'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did tigernuts just argue that "There's a fucking HUGE difference between the government DISCOURAGING going to the movies by making it expensive and the government PREVENTING you from doing so entirely by making it illegal" is bullshit?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't give a flying shit about your externalities'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'movies are more influencing than video-games'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government does not have a right to be pushing such influence'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's where you're wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am not wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because smoking, drinking and morbid obesity costs society and the government tons of money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So they have every right to tax them to discourage FUCKTARDS from becoming alcoholic smoking fatballs that'll end up costing EVERYONE BUT THEMSELVES a bajillion pounds a year.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i thought they made money on that'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'video-games are similar to mudding -- how many of you are serial-killers irl because to play this mud '
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not to the point where like 90+% of the cost of the product is just pure tax. ;)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's your goose-stepping practice coming on, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not a boy scout.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So I wouldn't know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(The Boy Scouts invented the goose-step)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'besides, none of that money actually goes to hospitals and other such caregiving institutions.  Most of it goes to military.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if the value of the negative externalities are an order of magnitude larger than the cost of the product, why not 90+%?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depends on the country, Hanslanda.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(And possibly state)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and where it directly flows into is irrelevant... income from that source means less income has to flow from income/sales taxes... the society that suffers the costs will get the money back in some form.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taxing bad stuff makes more sense than taxes on productive work, we is merely a necessary evil'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(which)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what I think when people whine about tobacco taxes and bans against smoking in bars and restaurants?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That we're not being harsh enough. Ban smoking in public, period.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You want to poison yourself? Feel free. In the privacy of your own home.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could do something about the banking sector, but that' might actually threaten to benefit mankind'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax football, while you're at it'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and bicycles'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what harm does football do to me?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'injures people'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and other people riding bikes actually benefits me'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we need to require licensing and insurance for bicycles.  Some of those users drive worse than people in cars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Football brings in revenue.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'football doesn't injure me'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Revenue that goes back to society in the form of taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'it kills kids ocassionally'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We're thinking of different kinds of football, Modi.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'which is sad'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We're talking about REAL football.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only those who play it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not that American Football crap.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(I will NOT refer to football as soccer)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people often get injured or killed in football-related unrest'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well real football is boring'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'both football and soccer are correct terms for it...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. Let's make that illegal. If you participate in hooliganism, the government can sue your ass off.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's pretty much just a clan-replacement for the ignorant masses'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You, your parents, you can get sued for EVERY FUCKING PENNY.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That way, if parents aren't keeping their hooligan kids in check, they lose their house.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'come to America, Yuna.  We do that anyways.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fucking idiots shouldn't be allowed to have kids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they can charge the FA for security. Wait, I bet they already do...'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'euthanise the hooligans, and let the parents keep their homes'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i'm sure lots of important people had idiots for parents'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'one guy sued a kid's parents because he ran out after his ball between two cars and caused him to be at fault in a wreck while avoiding the kid.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Euthanizing the fuckers won't bring in any revenue to pay for the damage they inflict.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Was this on Judge Judy, Hanslanda?'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but the hooligans shall be gone'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not talking about frivolous lawsuits. I'm talking about making it practice to sue the pants off every hooligan who is caught.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Even if they didn't directly cause much damage. Kinda like how if three people set out to murder someone, the two who didn't pull the trigger still get charged with murder.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can get arrested for leaving a victim to bleed while you go find enough network coverage to call *911 on your cellphone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the way things are going, phone 911 for an ambulance and the cops show up and kill you anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Very few states/countries have laws that require you to phone for help if you witness an accident.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless, of course, your job is in law enforcement, medical assistance or the like.'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Norway has laws which require you to help if you witness an accident :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the culture of blame has meant most people don't want to get involved'
T3/r7/2012-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Oh Jesus H. Christ.  Comedy Central is having a fund raiser for AWWWWWTIZM charities.  Too bad AWWWWTIZM doesn't exist!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN to send observers to USA "looking for voter suppression activities by conservative groups"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're getting desperate, folks!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'not sure why they'd bother, it's obvious, you don't have to look very hard or scour much'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you see constant interference by both sides, so why are they singling out one?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'that assumes that both sides are throwing away thousands of voter registration forums; wait, that's not how it's happening'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is the ACLU (and other lefty organisations) basically panicking'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'legal suppression is only happening at one end'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've got the neocons tampering with voting machines and the obamnites tampering with forms, registers, and voting multiple times'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(allegedly)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and they're more concerned with legalities than private initiatives.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that isn't terribly helpful, is it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it legal to vote twice?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, new study implies Child 'like' taking Ritalin and Adderall'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Didn't snl just do a skit on voting rules?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what sn is'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'saturday night live'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't get that here'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit main stream for me, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'That's ok, it's not any good anymore anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everybody too terrified to be funny anymore'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Everybody stopped taking mass amounts of drugs'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't think that's the only reason...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Let's debate about it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'political correctness, fear of suing, and political bias of funding network also pay a large part'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Ok, I was kidding...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Report claims $4.5bn has been inappropriately applied to the food stamp program, including benefits administered to 2000 dead people in new york and massivehugetits'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'among the things inappropriately paid for by food stamps: beer, diapers, condoms, pot dispensory cards, KFC, Taco Bell'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local tv station in ohio reported them being used for fags, guns, and cars, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, my favourite video  of a clueless congressperson  of the week goes to this lady:'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFh0nIYNAyY&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who mixes brush-off technique with selective memory loss and pleaded stupidity'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and tries to make it the interviewers' fault. classic'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, news headline: "Chavez, Castro, Putin endorse Obama". Not a right wing news site. honest'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Washington Times'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'hey, do you know who owns the Washington Times?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i just assumed from the headline it was a right wing rag'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Reverend Moon'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a great name'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you can understand the articles that it publishes :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the dead gie?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'died in september...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, his empire goes on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess you get crazies in all religions'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'religions/sects/clans/organisations'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK has an estimated 32 CCTV cameras for every one of the 65 million people'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like countrwide ALPR coverage is coming to the USA after being rolled out by the CIA in the UK '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in 2005 an 80yr old pensioner and her daughter with no criminal record, went to an anti-war rally in London and were pulled over on the way home by police and searched under anti-terrorism laws because of the huge database that backs ALPR up'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Some US cities are making CCTV mandatory for some kinds of businesses'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think it's all a conspiracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a conspiracy, just part of the trend towards a police state'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a conspiracy because they're not hiding it, they're doing it brazenly and in the open, and using a mixture of psy-ops and propoganda to cover their tracks'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'problem-reaction-solution, bait and switch, strawman, 'false flags', delphi techniques'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'damn, those evil people'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'how can they get away with it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because people are dumb and let them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if these techniques didn't work on the sheeple, they wouldn't use them, would they?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides, they have history to learn from - they can look at the likes of Hitler and see where he went wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it is lucky with have foresighted people like you around to warn us of the danger'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it depends whether you go along with what they do or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you be happy to be tracked everywhere you go, and that information available to the highest bidder, Swalec?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you be equally happy if the people that controlled that technology were (literally) hostile to anyone with political views that were different to yours?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that's a no comment :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSbxBQhzk3M&feature=related'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'creativity is a mental illness'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(allegedly)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Human trafficking is a business worth $32bn a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2nd biggest illegal trade, tied with arms'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone here ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I've found Yuna and Twyst's music idol!: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_tILqds7-jg'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '11yr old californian boy banished from his schooled because he carries genetic mutation for cystic fibrosis'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thus the school is trying to set a precedent for eugenics-based denial of education'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tiggy my only point would be funding - is it a publically funded school ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trying to find out for you, one moment'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'TY'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like a standard middle school'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no references whatsoever on it's website to fees, that might suggest it's a private school'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'to preempt findings - all dogma based schools create thier own bias imo - there are significant reasons for eugenics to play more of a part in breeding rather than dogma - someone actualy got it right ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, sounds like someone who is a bit thick is in charge of admissions policy and didn't realise cystic fibrosis isn't contagious'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so says the article'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not across nature of illness  - expand pls ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the decision was taken because with classic cystic fibrosis, the bacteria can be dangerous to other classic cystic fibrosis sufferers'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is a congenital defect ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have 2 classic cystic fibrosis students on their roles, so their action in banishing him was overzealous'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'selective quarantine to protect the student body - pick a hole in that ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, well it comes about from a genetic mutation linked to a chronic selenium deficiency in the pregnant mother'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he didn't have cystic fibrosis, only the genetic mutation'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what religious beliefs are those california school administrator douchebags -- kkk, republican, tea-party, christian, '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have a genetic disposition towards glaucoma. I don't have glaucoma'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hmmm OK what is the outrage then - this was all researched before the exclusion ? or hysteria and then info like normal ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'am i adequately conveying the situation/difference? It'd be different if the banished kid actually -had- classic cystic fibrosis, but he doesn't, so therefore isn't a risk, or at risk'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sounds more like the school wanted to get rid of him for some reason.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for that reason'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just sounds like another jump off the deep end because the people at the school don't have the knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I would suspect that there's more unpublished, that they came up with this as a convenient excuse to get rid of someone they don't like.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/10/18/boy-banned-from-school-for-carrying-cystic-fibrosis-gene/'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'lol fox'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'currently going through court'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the story's linked a lot of other places other than fox :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so hysteria -  power group within the organisation gets behind it and then after being proved wrong can't disband because of other group politics .. ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220024/Parents-fury-boy-11-told-leave-school-cystic-fibrosis-gene.html?ito=feeds-newsxml'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Oh, I haven't actually been following the convo, but I saw a fox link...and ugh, Daily Mail? The fox of the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sure, they all have bias, but at least post a source where the bias is subtle'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll have you know I Love a decent Fox Vaki :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'vakieh, the story's on a crapload of other sites as well. and it's the same press release on fox and the rest of the news sites :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not the issue here Majic, as I still don't know what the story is :-P Just commenting on the sources used'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'majic has the right of it, they all take their news from news feeds... you know, so that they get the 'right' news and all'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'real journalism is dead, you realise'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(at least at a national and international level)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Wikileaks ! - lo l soz had to '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The internet, Every Man and His Blog, and the race to be The First to Break means journalism is dead, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an incorrect determination, vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Show me a mass media which incorporates fact checking and a goal towards objectivism?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, fox was the first one that came up on google for me as well, but the snippets shown by google gave the same story everywhere :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mass media is big business, their fact checking and objectivism will be skewed by the people who fund them'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'discriminatoin because of genetic disposition -- sounds like the republicans are reviving Nazi ideals'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So place funding for 3 competing mass medias as part of the constitution of a nation, to be granted without restriction to 3 independent (and by law nonprofit) media groups.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's a staunch democrat state, zade, so i doubt that'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'where the fuck do you get that the school is republican?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In Norway, private schools have to accept all students.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'including religious schools which have to accept atheists/other religions/whatever'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, if you want any gov't funding, that is'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, there are students that a private school legitimately shouldn't have to accept, such as one who requires two nurses in constant attendance (there was a kid like that who attended a public school near where I grew up)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find it's a culture of blame, fear, and suing behind the school's decision than poltiics'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I would seriously also suggest that he did something to piss the school off and they were looking for excuses and seized on this one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Dispel Majic.
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'US schools get funding based on student grades ? why reject a student ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, we might get to hear that from the court case'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Norwegian private schools have a massive overrepresentation of children with some sort of problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Norway is full of crazy people, though they -almost- got my respect for their treatment of Andres Breivik, though totally lost it again when they renegged on their promise to let him speak on the televised court appearance'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smarted of hypocrisy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, someone I know has her kid in private school here because the public school refused to work w/him on dyslexia :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the Oz school system is a joke  - I completed yr 12 with flying colours and learned most of what I wa interested in on the net '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK education was fine until 1989, then has crashed'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'been eroded for a while before that though, with the abolishment of grammar schools'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my "problem" wasn't detected by any school I was at yet aparently I have been isck for years .. stil aced school '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you creative?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://bit.ly/SdJn0j'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I used to sculpt - I still paint '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Vakieh.
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'parental expectations have a lot to do w/grades :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you're mentally ill - scientists said so'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I used to write too but can't now - everything I do is analysed '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'at a large, multiracial school (i believe in CA) they interviewed a bunch of kids and asked them 'what's the lowest grade you could get before your parents get pissed off?' and averaged it by reported race :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'arrow. knee'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'average for asian kids? A-. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'average for white kids? B-. average for non-asian minorities? C-. :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Correlation vs causation right there, btw'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dnt n33d gradez when i got me an obamafone!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The non-pushing Asians don't tend to migrate, as a rule'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'actually, the correlation is 'kids with pushy parents have higher gpas on average' :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'although you're correct about the non-pushy ones not migrating.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shock, parents who give a shit have kids that get better grades'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a book was written a while ago on that - disparity in expectations and the relavence of affection due to activity '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be a nobel prize in that somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, there is 'giving a shit', and 'high expectations of grades' - you can care about your kid and not feel bad about him getting a D'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Be pretty dumb, but not uncaring'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'on a base level - poor life skill parents produce  ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, and you'd hope so, but the missing thing is effort on the part of the teacher'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err parent, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like that cartoon posted suggests'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'parents blame the teacher, they should be blaming themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'for example, the parent making sure the kid has a quiet place to do homework and making sure it's done, instead of sending the kid to do childcare and expecting them to get homework after that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'teaching is not held in high standing in Oz - lowrest paid graduates there are ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'teaching is well paid here'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tzad, teaching is held in pretty high regard where I'm from - but it is paid bugger all'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'most of the people I know who quit teaching quit because of the moronic rules and regulations instead of the salary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '... dunno - only the dumb ones at uni were buisness or teaching majors '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'they knew the salary going in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My brothers gf is a kindergarten teacher, she makes about a tenth of what I think the job is worth, but there it is. Look at the cost of daycare for babies - I think parents should be out that + teaching costs for school - buffered of course for low income. Best investment for tax dollars that could EVER exist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Kindergarten teacher really don't make as much as "proper" teachers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'She is trained for k-6, but this year is teaching K...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'kindergarten teachers are elementary school teachers here, elementary school is k-5 or k-6 or sometimes k-8'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'here = us.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Here too Majic - Daycare, preschool, K-12, TAFE/Uni'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah Vaki - I have met a few crusaders  - but I'll bet the system will beat it outta em in a few years n they'll go on to something else '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and costs of daycare for babies is higher because of the much higher staff to child ratio needed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you can't have one adult for 20 kids in a baby daycare :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My aunt is a nanny turned childcare worker, she outperforms the teacher to salary by a good 3:1'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Bear in mind, the teacher is a university graduate, the childcare worker is totally informally trained.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oz daycare child staff ratios are 0-3 yrs 1 to 5 and 3-5 is 11 to 1 staff - did relief at a childcare centre while I waas well '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Meanwhile, I graduate halfway through next year, and already have job opportunities lined up which pay well above any informally trained person in my field - and for what? Making a computer say beep? Hardly fitting, though I won't turn down the cash :-P'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'recognition of prior learning to qualify a childcare worker is big buisness - the student didn't go to class so no on costs yet still needs to pay the tuition fee - cashcow of  you find someone who will sign off on the RPL'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I...don't get it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh .. the drug industry made more sense to me than  ... this '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when the underculture makes more sense than .. real world - real world has become gridlocked and is unusable '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I'm not sure if anyone on here would care, but the illicit drug industry is an interesting point - black markets offer a very curious look at how totally free and unregulated markets perform - because all transactions are illegal, the different transactions are all equal in the eyes of the law - and thus emulate what an unregulated market might offer.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a true free mrket economy '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '-n 20'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Swalec slaps himself on the head
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Well, it isn't a true free market economy, but with the translated effects, it can emulate one in parts'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is where I cut my teeth anyway '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'back to eugenics wish I'd made  cyanide instead . For all the harm and cost it causes '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if anyone has a thought on how to making deb into a charter of ? ISO  9001 is an example  ? I'm intereested - sad to loose lucid moments to the ether '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or something - seems to be a loss to have access to such minds who have no individual means to bring thier wiews / concerns to ligh we could do it collectively - soz just soft musing at the end of the night but plant a seed ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't get much of that here when you have hateful spirits'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'any energy can be converted mate '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I was a Very hateful individual - I have had my energy diverted  now - perhaps - we can use any critism in a construct that uses ration thought as a base imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you could try taking that to Yuna and Twyst, but I doubt you'll get too far'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll think on it further when not weighed down with moddon - G'nite '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gallup latest: R51 O45'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Gallup run by the mafia '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Donald Trump's autonomous hairpiece has some big Obama news on Wednesday'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'polls may be an incentive for voters to decide to vote for the losing candidate, or to switch their vote to the winner, or to stay at home and not vote for the candidate in the lead'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally think their sole function is a news generator'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a few days ago, Obama was in the lead'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama hasn't been in the lead since the first debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but you are a republican supporter, and republicans are dishonest and lie '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, Party leader of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood (controls 47% of the lower house) is calling for Sharia Law, and Egyptan spritiual leader called for Islam to invade Jeruselem'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think you've been listening to some Yuna propoganda'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i heard Obame is going to win by a landslide'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, if you're against Obama, you must be for Romney, because no other way exists, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or so he would have you believe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is against the Republicans and thus is against Romney
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shocking revelation'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you plan to riot when obama loses, zade?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so this Egyptian spiteful leader wants to invade Jerusalem so that the Israelis may abrogate the agreement on the Temple Mount, tear down the muslim temples in Jerusalem, and rebuild a Jewish Temple on the Temple mount'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they're already undermining the mosque to make it collapse'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what does that mentally-retarded Egyptian spiteful leader want to accomplish by invading Jerusalem'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd imagine it involves ridding the city of jews'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a guess'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the fuck do they care so much about Jerusalem, anyway? So it's the Holy City. Big whoop.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If Jesus and God are real, I sincerely doubt they place much importance upon the city.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that may be so, but that's not what these people believe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. I am blatantly calling them fucktards.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you claim to know the mind of Jesus & God?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course he does'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The idiots warring over Jerusalem do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best let them get on with it, i say'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Israelis will win'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'they are supported by USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bah, homosexuals are bereft of and lacking in wisdom in spiritual matters'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i venture that if America gets involved with the Israeli's in an open conflict against the Arab states, it'll end in a 1-1 draw'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I thought me being Irreligious would outweigh me being gay in this case.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess I was wrong. For some people, "The Gay Thing" is always the most important thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'yeah, Christians, Muslims & Jews all hate gays'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is a seeming "powder keg" situation in the middle-east'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a powder keg that has been pressurised due to western inteference over 120 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"God" also dislikes male homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'god dislikes republicans, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Christians have absolutely no reason to hate "The Gays". None.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except, you know, stupidity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they shouldn't hate, though they might be entitled to disapprove'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are lots of reasons to dislike homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'just ask the Pope'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I meant theological. Nothing in their book justifies it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet they claim homophobia is a part of their religion and encroaching on their right to discriminate against The Gays is encoraching on their freedom of religion.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'yeah, what Christians' civil rights?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Yuna misread and or did not read study the Christian Bible'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that depends on your interpretation of the word 'discriminate' when applied to expressing and practicing religion'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'yeah, what about Christians' civil rights?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The New Testament pretty much throws out the Old testament.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Old Testament exists, to Christian, for the purpose of chronicling history, not for the purposes of dictating the Christian way of life.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is lots in the Christian Bible (both old and new testament) that speaks against the homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name some parts of the New Testament that speaks out against homosexuality besides Paul's personal letter to the Corinthians in which he speaks of HIS OWN prejudices without ever even ALLUDING to it being the word of god.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i seem to recall something about ten commandments that was against a man boffing another man'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the Ten Commandments?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Ten Commandments has NOTHING in it about homosexuality. The fuck are you on?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'thou shalt not covet thy wife's brother'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Totally homosexuality!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anyway, Jesus pretty much threw out all of the teachings of the Old Testament.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't see Christian railing against people getting bowl cuts, cutting their mutton chops, eating shellfish or killing insubordinate kids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the homosexual joker want parts in the NT that speak out against homosexuals besides the parts that speak out against the homosexuals '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All of which are sins, abominations equal to homosexuality and (some) punishable by death, by the way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I'm all for killing insubordinate kids.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sources, zade!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Is lying to imms a sin?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Starling fluffles Summoner Yuna's fur mercilessly.
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'God destroyed Sodom'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i just wonder if catholics worshipping saints goes against the 1st or 2nd commandment'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are at least two locations in the New Testament that directly speak out against homosexuals, and few other indirect "general" locations'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Soddom was Old testament.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet you cannot quote any of them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or even tell us which chapters contain them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul's letter was not the Word of God or Jesus. Therefore, Christians have no reason to hate gays from a theological standpoint since neither (NT) God or Jesus told them to hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Saying OT God hated gays is not a valid excuse because OT God hated A LOT of things that NT God doesn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Simon didn't say Simon says before he said it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'therefore you're out'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'been there, done that, on irc in a Scripture room where scripture-bots provided the scriptures -- aardwolf debate is not geared for scriptural debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The precious Book of Leviticus, the one which speaks out against homosexuality the harshest and most blatantly, also speaks out against bowl cuts, shellfish and eating anything that crawls on its belly, calling ALL them "abominations" (same word as used for homosexuality).'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i actually agree with Yuna to the extent that Christians shouldn't hate gays'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eaten a shrimp, lately? Ever gotten a "round" haircut?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'yea, bowl cuts are an abomination...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People can hate whatever they want. Christians, however, do not have a THEOLOGICAL reason to do so. Unless you can find me these alleged passages where NT God and/or Jesus speak out against homosexuality.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Rom. 1:26-28, Gen. 1:28, Rom. 1:32'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, that's Paul's own prejudiced views.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Based on OLD TESTAMENT teachings, ignoring Jesus' entire "Love thy neighbour" speil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, Tigernuts is supplying scripture-references, but where is the scripture-bot to expand those references into holy-scripture'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The rest of that was OT'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I was looking at the gospel according to St Google'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i think thats where someone outside the faith misunderstands, love thy neighbor hate the sin. thats how i think its meant to be lived, i maybe wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But that's not how Christians are treating Teh Gays. They hate the gays.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Two Great Commandments of Jesus may be used indirectly (with science of course) to condemn homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a mixture of victorianism and blowback against darwinism'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Christianity doesn't support homosexuality. We dont hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depends on what branch and what country, Seiph. Seriously.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Pope fucking LOATHES The Gays.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And there's, apparently, a "culture war" raging in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'catholicism is one branch of christianity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the pope hires men that abuse children, i don't think you can look to him for any credible guidance on ethics'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of "Depends on what branch and country" was too Canadian French for you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fact of the matter is that the majority of branches of Christianity in a majority of the world's countries oppose homosexuality and homosexuals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oppose isn't hate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And many of them openly hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said ALL Christian hate The Gays. What I said was that Christians SHOULDN'T hate the gays on principle.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"dislike" is different to "hate"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's a distinct difference.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"despise" is almost at "hate"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there's your mission, Yuna, go around the world getting gay-hating christians to not hate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'And we dont.. Thats like saying all whites are racist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Seiph. Your 4th grade level English comprehension is obviously hindering you here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's your voting intention, Seiph?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying "Whites hate no reason to hate blacks"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Im sure there are alot of non-christians who are opposed to homosexuals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of I NEVER FUCKING SAID ALL CHRISTIANS HATE GAYS is confusing to you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'My voting intention shouldn't matter in this debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does, it decides whether you're racist or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I don't think Herman Cain is still running, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i was reading what you said, and although you didnt say it word for word...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn it, i love his pizzas'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Go back and re-read my statements, Seiph. And please Copy+Paste the part(s) where I, apparently, claim that all Christians hate gays.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and his 666 plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'Yuna, if you are Christian, then this challenge to a doctrine belongs inside the church, not in public, if you are not Christian, what makes you think it is your place to tell Christians how to be better Christians?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(it was 666, right?)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I did not bring religion up, Andurien.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wasn't even the one to bring God hating gays up. That was Zade.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And do you even KNOW what this channel's purpose is? Debate. So just because you dislike the topic of discussion, it doesn't mean it doesn't have a place here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's right, you can only discuss Yuna-approved topics here'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So EXCUSE ME for having the GALL to continue a discussion someone ELSE brought up. How EVIL of me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could be time for a neat segway into abortion'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eh, I'd rather talk about contraception. Why the FUCK are religious fuckwits (Note to Seiph: Not all religious people are fuckwits, I'm talking about the fuckwits who happen to be religious) oppose contraception on religious grounsd?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I like this new tolerant side to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'fair enough, the first thing i saw was a claim that Paul's epistles were not inspired by God, which our a pretty big challenge to a basic doctrine of the faith, the inerrancy of scripture.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I did not say that Paul's epistles were not inspired by god.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What I said was that what Paul wrote in those letters were NOT the words of Jesus or God. They did not come directly from them. He was not speaking for them. He was telling the Roman of his own views, shaped by his interpretation of the teachings of Jesus and God.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all religion is interpretation'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But Paul was but a man. And at that moment, he wasn't even speaking as an emissary of either Jesus or God, but as a man who wanted to advise his fellow men.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'what you just said is exactly the same as saying his letters are not inspired by God'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Uh, no.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Not speaking as an emissary of either Jesus or God" =/= "Not inspired by God"!.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Speaking as an emissary of God/Jesus: "I spoke to Jesus and God about this. They told me gays are bad and need to be killed." / Inspired by God: "Based on Jesus and God's teachings and how I interpret them, being gay is bad."'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'In Corinthians, he doesn't say "I dislike the following people:".  He says "the following people will not get into heaven:"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I'm not sure, but doesn't the Old Testament or Torah eventually state that the best ways for the Jews to change the world is not by killing infidels and trying to convert people but simply by leading by example? By showing people how happy one can be as a Good Jew and hope to convert people that way?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I won't pretend to know anything about the Koran, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'sounds like a distinction without a difference to me, especially considering the authority Paul used, either way i gotta run, kids to pickup, later.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I vehemently disagree with that. But whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, no one wants to discuss the theological merits of being opposed to contraceptives?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Boring.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'just to answer that, its an easy out for promiscious(spelling?) sex.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet they support the rhythm method, pulling out, safe periods, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And they don't seem to be unilaterally opposed to sterilization.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Most religious people are also idiot breeders.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and some are tirelessly devoted to helping the less fortunate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A semi-famous comedienne I really like's paternal grand-parents had 8 kids. The grand-mother then said they weren't having any more kids, to which the grand-father replied "Well, then we're not having any sex, because we're not using contraceptives", to which the grand-mother replied "Yes". The grand-father then left because he wanted sex.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Obviously, I meant that he left her)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that comedy-monologue story was likely a composed fiction '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'catholic?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Catholic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'figures'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It wasn't for one of her monologues/stand-up routines. It was in her auto-biography.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'coughfakeautobiographiescough'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because clearly, the world isn't full of fuckwits.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'thats not debatable..'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'what started this 'debate' all i've seen is religon bashing- not much debate :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think zade started it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's good with buttons'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'haha- nice'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the NT and OT condemns male homosexuals, not female homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Saying Christians shouldn't hate gays is religion bashing now? That's rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(unless the female homosexuals support the vileness of male homosexuals)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(those that swear in like manner to an obomination)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(those that swear in like manner to an abomination)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Christians righteously *condemn* homosexuakls'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is no "hate", merely "condemnation"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i didnt say that- see look you twist words too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he twists like ... a twisty turny thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So where's all of this Christian bashing you speak of?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because that's pretty much all we've discussed in the past 30 minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or, I guess, hour by now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where is all of this "religion bashing" you stumbled into, seeing as how you stumbled right into the discussion about Christians vs. The Gays.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'christians shouldn't hate gays. But the practice of homosexuality is clearly against bible teachings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the impressioin of "bashing" was likely from the generous use of "f***tards" to describe the religious'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Old testament teaching, Gregor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'It's in the new testament yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i must have stepped into the middle of it= because aside from one passage, the rest of it has been fuckwit this, fuckwit that'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the f***tard comment was just Yuna expressing his tolerance for those people with different beliefs, ideas, and priorities to him'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where? Besides Paul's letters, which were never even implied to have been Paul speaking as an emissary of God, but merely as a Christian.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: '1st corinthians 6th verse 9'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. That's PAUL'S personal letter.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yes pauls letter, but still taken as part of the inspired canon'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'pauls letters are part of the bible'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'and form part of the new testament'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'See, you cannot comprehend, despite the fact that I specifically singled you out and gave you a shout-out later, that calling someone who HAPPENS to be Christian a fuckwit does not mean I'm calling all Christian fuckwits.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So... PAul's letters are... teachings?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Really? Anything in the Bible is teachings?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yes, according to the bible he wrote his letters to the congregations under inspiration from God'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'sadly to many people Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Roman Catholic religion is based largely upon the Pauline teachings and epistles'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not the kind of inspiration where God appeared before him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Besides, Jesus' teachings pretty much poo poo Paul's letters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Besides, Paul's just saying "These people will not get into Heaven." Not "Kill them with fire!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'where did Jesus say it was ok for one dude to plug another?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Yuna, I just made a very simple point. Homosexuality is against the teachings of the new testament. Pauls letters are part of the new testament.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't see any Christian zealots trying to legislate discrimination against Jews into law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'there is not any contradiction between pauls letters and the teachings of Jesus'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't view Paul's PERSONAL letters to a bunch of Corinthians and Romans to be Christian teachings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you think isn't terribly relevent to the christian faith'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, you have yet to defend the claim that Paul's letters don't actually us Christian to hate homosexuals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Simply that they won't get into heaven.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'sorry, you lost me with your grammar there'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know very well what I meant from context.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul's letter don't actually tell Christians to hate homosexuals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'the bible tells all to love their neighbour. They hate the practice of homosexuality, but not homosexuals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They simply state that they won't get into the Bible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus did indirectly condemn abominations'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'exactly, no-one should hate homosexuals.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Where is this proof that christians hate gays?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'all over seiph'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'especially not christians.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you aware of the culture war going on in the U.S. Gregor? They are legislating against gay rights.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They HATE gay PEOPLE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Cuture....'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which legislation is that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I'm not from the US Yuna. I just know a decent amount about the bible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'a CULTURE war not a religious war, where yes- many cultures -are- based of religion-- but thats NOT so much true these days.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you calling those Christians "Not True Christians"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So people that don't want to make bestiality legal hate animals?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'love "thy neighbour as thyself" is slightly different to "love thy neighbour"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'if christians hate gays, they are not true christians /according to the bible/.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What about the entirety of the Catholic Church, the vast majority of which loathe "the gay", including their Pope Nazinger?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yes yuna, not christians in the biblical sense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'catholicism is so far removed from first century christianity it defies belief.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'debating scriptures as a "legal text" is tricky'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eh, I have no issue with you then, Gregor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you can't say the 'majority' of the catholic curch, because you dont know the oppinion of the majority.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'OF COURSE WE FUCKING DO.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I have no issue with you either Yuna, I was just stating factually what the new testament said.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'You must be a liberal'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what gay rights are the US governments legislating away?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Their leaders are very clear what they think. Their parishioners do not object. Every single poll among Catholics back me up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Seperation between church and state- cant blame a religion for policy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So now we have to ask EVERY SINGLE Catholic IN THE WORLD of their opinion to know what they really think?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Your evidence that Christians hate gays is the fact that there are Christian groups advocating against the legality of gay marriage?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That's not hate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'its more fair than assuming you know'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Leinei.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Across the world, there are constant battles to ban gay marriage, civil partnerships (so not just the name, but even rights), gay adoption, protections against discrimination (such as leaving it legal to fire someone if you think they're gay).'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Texas Republican Party's 2012 Platform actually includes the promise to make Sodomy illegal again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I don't view any of that as hate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Not saying hate isn't behind some of it, for some people'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'So someone can't be PRO something w/o hating the opposition?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But not all'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the FUCK would defending someone's right to fire someone simply because they're gay not be based on hatred?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'l'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd fire plenty of people I don't hate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i think they are scared yuna '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I can fire you because you're a dangerous liability to the success of my company.  Doesn't mean I hate you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just because you think you see hate everywhere doesn't mean that it's actually there'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(not equating those, btw)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Being gay can be a dangerous liability to the succes of your company?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'see the stuff in parentheses ^'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and I'm perfectly happy living in an "at will employment" governance...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In what possible instance is firing someone simply because they're gay accpetable and not based on hatred?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't need ANY reason to fire you'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'these days- if you're not fighting w/ someone your fighting against them, that must mean you hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Actually, you do, in many jurisdictions, Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hat on crooked today? goodbye'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unfair dismissal. It's a law and everything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Yuna: read what I wrote immediately before what you bothered to read'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'There are plenty of contracts (teachers for example) with moral clauses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's my company, you don't have a right to take my money unless I deign you to be there'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No one has yet explained how wishing to be able to fire people simply because they are gay is not rooted in hatred.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'I think at will employment is a great model too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If you're a teacher, and you have sex outside of marriage, most of their contracts make it legal to fire them'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'doesn't mean that they hate anyone that has sex outside of marriage'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'See, I'm not talking about people who have signed contracts with moral clauses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ffs. i wake up and you are here. i go out - you are here. i come home drunk - you are here. i go to bed - you are here'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm talking about people just firing people for being gay from, say, being a barista.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who did that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I'm pretty sure very few schools have contracts that state that teacehers cannot have sex outside of marriage...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who has actually been fired for being gay?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it seems to me that nuts doesn't have a job and is leeching welfare and freezing old people to death because he needs to troll this channel all the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Either you're being a facetious troll or you're willfully ignorant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the reason that the RCC disregards some of the NT scriptures, is that the RCC believes that the Apostolic Successor of Jesus and Peter (aka the Pope in infallible imprimatur mode) is the true interpretor and disseminator of the earthly "word of god" -- in the early centuries AD, the scriptures were viewed as "suggested guide" and not as the "biblical word of god" -- the early RCC chose the books gospels epistles etcetera that formed Canon of the eventaul "scriptural word of god"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the heck is the RCC?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Roman Catholic Church?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that can't be true, dagnir, i earn less than welfare scroungers'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How is that possible?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I can legally fire you for being a Yankees fan, as long as I do it equally across all protected categories.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was asking who had actually been fired for being gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you obviously don't do any work since every time i open the mud window you are here, trolling'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll find that a time-zone thing, dagnir dear'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'we're pretty much in the same time zone'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'heh, what zade said. Catholicism is basically a different religion to the christianity depicted in the bible. Papacy believe that their physical lineage allows them to make up doctrine as they go along.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you'll know it's 19:43'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Being a Yankee's fan is not a protected class.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Their argument might be that "being a yankees fan" shouldn't be any more protected than "being a homosexual".'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, and you were also here in the morning and noon'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'completely unproven physical lineage I might add'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'today i was, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typically i wouldn't be'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(or any less protected, whatever)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'll call you on that in the future'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'please do'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'He still hasn't told us who has been fired for being gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, i doubt he could, either'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i know of a good one- but it will work better for me if he says it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Caring so much as to keep track as to when a person plays is some pretty high praise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=fired+for+being+gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of these "outrage" incidents that liberals have for very little reason, much like chants of racism, or getting offended on behalf of someone else they don't know'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, in TN's defense, lots of people think that I'm always here as well...until they send me a tell and get the "I haven't typed anything in xxx hours" message...you don't notice the absence of people as easily as you notice their presence'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'sure, but every time i open the window he's trolling here. except for 2am till 10am'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not even going to bother replying to that, Seiph, TigerNUTS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'roughly. depends on the day'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's great, dagnir, but applying the Yuna method of arguing, none of those matches is a reliable soruce'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like asking who's ever been beaten up for being gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'rodney king!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'its sooooo prominent you should have all kinds of examples.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Rodney King was not gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Rodney king wasn't police brutality it was self defense its been ruled...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Why should "gay" be more protected than "Yankees fan" or "has six toes"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Yuna!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'say the us military'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'he was black. didnt need to be gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'for real- the us military had a dont as dont tell'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'if you were gay you were pulled '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you fucktard.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you ADMITTED to being gay, you were thrown out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'military repealed that'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's what the DON'T TELL part came in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'can be openly gay in military nowadays'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the first century AD (even to the 4th century AD), the scriptures were being written, edited, re-edited, erdacted, rewritten, etcetera -- there was no official NT "word of god" then, until perhaps the 4th century AD when Constantine forced the christian leaders to select formulate and put forth a united front and singular scriptural view of the beliefs of the  Roman Catholic Church'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'DADT was only around for 15 years or so'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"The Gays" have never had more rights in the US as they have today'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'the repelled it but they still did it-'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Before that, there was no "don't tell"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, and?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not since the repeal, seiph'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'but thats not a relion thats a government thing-'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DO either of you have a point?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't like gay rights. i think human rights fit better'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gays have never had as many rights as now =/= They ahve enough rights.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gays are humans?!?!?!?!?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'still not a level playing field though is it abe?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DADT once existed =/= ????'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'What is your point?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yuna: you weren't discussing whether they had any/enough rights'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what, I agree with you, Dagnir.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I wasn't trying to make a point.  Just informing you so you can make a better one'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you say people can get fired for being gay... but you dont refernce it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you were discussing that we're all over legislating them out of existence out of hate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you say MOST Christians hate gays but you can't reference it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I said that there were ATTEMPTS to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'By a small handful of people'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'as if gay people never get fired for being gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seiph, if you're so mentally retarded (because you'd have to be) that you don't know people are getting fired for being gay, I'm not even going to bother speaking to you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Really? Who!?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Father Jim was fired from the private catholic college for being gay, duh'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Seiph: why do you think they made the law in the first place?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'its easy to switch to name calling when you've got nothing to back what you say.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'my sister was fired for been gay in the uk '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'although he wasn't a barista'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lovely weather we have today. Did you know that when DADT was in effect, you didn't even have to tell? Sometimes the military would ASK you anyway and dismiss oyu even if you didn't tell.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'are you seriously asking that question seiph?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'yes i am-'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'because remember we're discussing that Christians hate gays here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'so if he cant name any names then its never happened?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Its his main bullet point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There was a case where a (female) officer was to be questioned by the police, not because she'd done anythiong wrong, but because she was a witness. The police rang her doorbell and when there was no answer, they peered inside. They saw that there were pictures in the house that identified that she was a lesbian (pictures of her and her partner). They immediately informed her superiors, who then dismissed her.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'if thats his strong point on why christians hate gays its pretty weak'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'god doesn't exist. afk. have fun'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She didn't tell anyone. They ASKED and then threw her out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'you know hes right. you're just being awkward'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"never happened" is much different than "is a recurring theme and a way to show that people xxx hate people yyy"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei . o O ( No one ever answers my questions on this channel :( )
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'my mother is a new born christian and hasnt talked to my sister in 10 years. '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody has claimed that it has never happened'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'One person- what was her Job? Did it violate a moral contract?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'if that is not hate....'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'goes on all the time. its called prejudice'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i know a lot of new born christians that they do hate gay people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I know people who haven't talked to their siblings in 20 years who aren't new born christians...and?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you mean Born-Again? I believe that's an actual sect and not just a term.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'she dosent talk to her because she is gay abe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'we talking about that '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and, ronda?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, Abelinc, that's not due to hatred.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'diont know yuna they say they born new christians'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ronda's mother is just concerned her sister will never beget kids or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'is crazy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'apparently born-again is not a specific sect but can refer to "christians" from a variety of denominations'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Yes, prejudice- against Jews, Blacks, Mexicans, Women, Muslims, Mormons, hell looks like Christian Males and Scientology is the only safe route...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'born again is not a denomination/sect, no'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'it refers to discussion Jesus had with Nicodemus'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I thought it was an actual sect. Apparently, it just means you became a Christian later in life.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup, john chapter 3'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): GraySong Gregor nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'So Yuna, you should just say 'hey i dont know enough about religon or the peoples beliefs within them to speak on this subject." and be done with it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's often used to refer to the holy spirit going into you'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did anyone hear anything?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smelled some burning'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Must've been the air rushing through Seiph's ears.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'To say that because we christians vote to Progress homosexuality- we must hate gays.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'that we dont'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That doesn't even make sense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And is the opposite of what I said.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'that we -dont- i correct myself easy on your finger-rage'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And there's a huge difference between NOT voting for a measure and actively FIGHTING IT and erecting BANS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'So then- what your saying is to Campaign for something is ok- but to campaign against it is hate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and there's a huge difference in not believing that certain actions are moral and hating those who perform them'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'its ok to have a voice if you want something- but if you dont its hate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): GraySong Gregor seems to think you have the right idea.
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Way to not understand basic English, Seiph.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually that was a good English restatement of what you just said, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'cut to the point seiph. is homosexuality immoral in your view?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'what about that is wrong- what about what i said doesn't follow...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Abelinc: Yes, but there's a very fine line and people are blurring them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which people?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In their mind, they just hate the sin. But when they shun gay people, they're transferring the gay to the PERSON.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If I don't believe smoking marijuana should be legal, that doesn't mean I hate tokers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but if you campaign against the legalization, IT MUST MEAN THAT!!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you openly discriminate against smokers of marijuana not based on anything they did or said, but because you know they smoke marijuana, that's transferring your hatred of their "sin" to them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Yuna- you are one of these single minded people who are confusing it-'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i sortof agree with that'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not associating/shunning, again, is not a sign of hate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'with what TN?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts, stop agreeing with me. That's just scary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, wanting smoking pot to be illegal is completely unjustifiable anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk at his saying.
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you have a resturant and you ban someone from it for being gay, how is that justifiable by saying "I hate the sin, not the sinner"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Your argument has been that people fighting against gay rights means that they hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'who does that tho luna!?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'How is that different than fighting against the legalization of marijuana?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Show me one resturant that has a friggin gay ban'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'JustFuckingGoogleIt.SeiphFuckwit.Com'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why bother campaigning against it if you don't mind them? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, local very popular tourist restaurant took a lot of flak a year or two ago when he posted a sign that you must order in English'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'seiph there are plenty of those in the northen states of mexico. They even kill them if they know they are gays. '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Was one here that banned kids under 2'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"don't mind them", "hate them"...very far stretch between those two things...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wow, christians kill people all the time now'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 1 Corinthians 14:34'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I learn so much on debate chan'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Kill your unruly children. Kill anyone who tries to get you to change your religion (so kill all of those Mormons and Jehova's Witnesses! Do it now)!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: '0h 10'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'ok i googled "Resturant gay ban" and all i saw was the chick-fil-a stuff. so where is your 'prized' nugget of truth- where is this resturant that bans gays?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'it's clear from looking at other references/context that it specifically referred to the idea of women not teaching in the congregations. Not that they should remain silent at all times.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Jesus had no problem talking to the Samaritan woman at the well for example.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, way to not understand basic English, yet again Seiphfuckwit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and chick fill-a thing was bunkem anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Timothy 2:12'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Then break it down- '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't say there are restaurants out there with official, open standing gay bans. I said if there are instances ofp eople banning gay people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course, they would never state that openly because it's actually often illegal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I doubt it's illegal, actually.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'for a resturant'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'so because someone whispered about it in a back alley means its happening?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, so we just downgraded to something that christians as a whole routinely do, to something illegal...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'it's pretty clear that the bible does not endorse the idea of female priests/vicars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said it's something Christians routinely do, Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop reinterpreting everything I say in your mind. It's not gonna help you when there are public records available on -h.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the whole thread is about you stating that christians...as a whole people, hate gays and act accordingly'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Yuna is all over the place Abel he doesnt know what or where hes going with his back-less arguments.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. 1 Peter 2:18'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'dagnir, not sure what you are trying to prove with these quotes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'stop stating things and then pretending that you haven't said them, then'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'just spicing up the discussion'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'in no way does the bible endorse slavery. It provided some regulation for already existing customs however.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You asked for examples, I provided some. Never did I say EVERY Christian or the MAJORITY of Christians engage in these specific activities.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'And stop stating things you're not willing to back with fact.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you provided some? where?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, so you've decided to join Seiph in feigning ignorance, Abelinc?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'some b&b in england told a gay couple they could not share a bed. they had to pay 3 grand compo to the gays. theres on for you seiph. and there are probably millions of other instances throughout the world over the years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you've thrown out a whole lot of retoric, certainly'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's good to know I can stop treating you like you possess even a modicum of integrity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'millions now'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Yuna, you're playing the ignorance card? You're just making shit up and expecting us to belive you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'where do you live seiph?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Claiming gays are never fired for being gay or discriminated against by businesses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'You're thorwing out balnket statements'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're either extremely sheltered or a bunch of fuckwits.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I can show just as many instances of non-christians doing that as you can show of christians doing that (which so far, is zero).'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yuna: show where we claimed anything of the sort?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i live in Pensacola FL'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'because for you not been able to see this kind of things at least once'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'its like LA 2.0 down here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'seiph: I'm guessing going to college there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course you never would, Abelinc. That's because you're a weasel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Nope, i'm a beach local.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i see  and you havent seen any of these things. Not once?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weasel! that's 10 points!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'on slavery there is a passage in the bible that says slaves should not seek to overthrow their masters. i cant remember where tho sorry.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I'm a weasel for not stating something which would be false, which you're accusing me of stating?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You just insinuate it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how's that work, exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'man, this is so unobjective and getting derailed super fast'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, seiph: I figured you for a PCC guy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Where the population has atleast a 25-30% gay rate by now... they work- they live lives NO ONE i know or anyone they know has ever been fired for being gay. So thats more fact to me than Luna here provides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You imply it, you demand proof for something for which you shouldn't have to provide actual proof, the way the Birthers scream for Obama's birth certificate and then chastise the opposition for refusing to comply with your ridiculous request.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'come off it abe. i always thought u had a brain. whats your beef with gays?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'whatB4s a pcc guy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'd like to know what city you live in that has a 25-35% "gay rate".'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I'd very much like to know how you could possibly consistently misspell my name as Luna when the L and the Y are quite far apart.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hmm, so the stuff you claim, I should not ask for evidence of, and the stuff I DON'T EVEN CLAIM, I must provide evidence of...and I'm a weasel with no integrity...gotcha'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'haha no i was raised in a catholic house hold  but i've always believed in jesus and not the church so...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never asked you to provide any evidence, Abelinc .Stop LYING.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'probably the same way that you consistently misspell seiph as fucktard'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i said i live in pensacola FL'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Isn't that a very religious and Deep South state?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'where yes 25-30 maybe high-- but i bet its pretty damn close to that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, how could you POSSIBLY know that no one in your town has ever been fired for being gay? What do you live in, a 2000 man town?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Florida, no- we're so far south we're no longer south.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'hold on let me repost that message so you can reread'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Where the population has atleast a 25-30% gay rate by now... they work- they live lives NO ONE i know or anyone they know has ever been fired for being gay. So thats more fact to me than Luna here provides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei . o O ( I grew up in a town of 250 )
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How could you POSSIBLY know NO ONE you know has EVER known anyone who's been fired for being gay?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'key words- no one I know, or anyone they know...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you know, like, 10 people? And have you asked each and every one of them if they know someone who's been fired for being gay?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you just send out a mass text and get confirmation from EVERY SINGLE PERSON you know?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Dude if you had friends, you would understand.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Someone in the crowd yells, "BURN!" Tigernuts seems to agree!
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Does the subject of "Do you know anyone who's ever been fired for being gay" a common topic of discussion among your circle of friends?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'well its more solid of an argument than you have'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'what was yours?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'oh wait thats right "omfggoogleit"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, "Me and my friends have never met anyone who's been fired for being gay" is a very shoddy litmus test of whether a claim is correct or not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your claims reeks of deceit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did ENDA get passed this year?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'it still has less holes than yours.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And since you seem to actually be openly arguing that no one is ever fired for being gay, you're either trolling or mentally disturbed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ENDA has not yet passed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'im not arguing that noone has'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'did i not ask you to speak of the us military'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So why are you demanding proof?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why demand proof for something you know to be true?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'ok your rambling now-'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nice deflection.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'take this where you want but you cant tell me where these gay firing christians are'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'and you've yet to accept that most relions teach to accept everyone not hate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Actually, I never said Christian fire people for being gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's a separate argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'oh we've split the argument to better suit you now? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I never claimed that Christianity doesn't teach people to accept everyone. In fact, it's A PART OF MY ARGUMENT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'that was your argument for this hate thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you're confused'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Christianity and Jesus teaches Christians to love everyone, yet Christians still hate gays.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'becayse thats not what you've been saying'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I made the following argument: Christians hate gays. Abelinc's counter-argument: Just because you oppose gay people and their rights doesn't mean you hate them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My counter-argument: So if someone fires someone for being gay, they don't hate them?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't actually argue that it's some kind of Christian practice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I argued that if you fire someone for being gay, it's due to hatred. This TIES into the Christians hating gays thing, but I did not argue that firing gay people is some kind of Christian practice only Christians engage in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or that they're mot likely to fire people to for being gay than not-Christian homophobes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you fire someone for their sexuality, then it's not necessarily because you hate gays'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'and where does your gay ban at resturants fall in then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And again you completely misinterpret BASIC ENGLISH'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Maybe you just can't speak it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said there were restaurangs with standing, public gay bans. But if you ban someone from a restaurant because you find out they're gay, that's hatred.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'yeah but it looks bad though doesn't it tiger? '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe you were dropped on your head repeatedly as a child.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'And i asked you to show me where thats happening'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I told you you're being a fuckwit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that fire somebody for being a sex-pervert, that may be from disgust and to avoid further contamination'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you can't use blanket statements like that as if its solid proof of hate and discrimination'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'problem-reaction-solution'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Either you're a troll or willfully ignorant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'did u miss that bit about the b&b in england seiph?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is not something that should need sourcing. Like asking someone to source that Buffy the Vampire Slayer was a TV-show.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's common knowledge, it is well documented.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything else you argue against must be sourced'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And Tofting FUCKING TOLD YOU already.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'I did miss the B&B thing in england- '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I happen to know of that incident, by the way. It's against U.K. law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've heard of gay couples being refused adoption, the B&B thing came down in favour of gays'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So they sued and won, easily.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'and rightly so'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think it was rightly so'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why not'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the correct interpretation of the law, doesn't mean they were 'wrong' in the biblical sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'biblical sense is irrelevant in terms of right and wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And in the eyes of the law.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Especially as it was proven that that B&B didn't discriminate against heterosexual un-married couples sharing a bed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the eyes of the law, and 'right and wrong' and not the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"They sued and rightly won" is not about what is right and wrong in YOUR eyes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'damn right'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's about what the law states.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though there is often a large degree of coincidental agreement'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'you've sill not explained why it was wrong tiger'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why what was wrong?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'People should have a right to do what they wish with their property'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'homosexuals are unworthy to adopt children, since that may violate the children's right to be raised in a non-homosexual home -- homosexuality is a (contagious) psycho-mental-disease'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They ran a business.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe provided the B&B owners were up front about their requirements, they should have been allowed'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, the law dictates otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'true. but when they open to the public you have to treat people with respect.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well sure, if there was nothing in their advertisement about it, then you're right'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'you dont have to treat people any other way than how you want to'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depends on who you are and in what capacity you're "treating people the way you want to".'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'even if there was something in the ad im still right'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'No it doesnt-'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree,  tofting'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A clerk at whatever institution offers marriage licenses refusing to give one to a gay couple in a jurisdiction where same-sex marriage is legal is commiting A CRIME.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'i know u dont. weve had this before.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'To allow one man to be as he chooses gay or not- is the same right thats granted to allow a man with prejudice to live with or without prejudice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not technically or actually true, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of "depends on who you are and in what capacity..." was too hard for you to undesrtand the first time?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'who started this debate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure it is, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Yuna- What is with you and that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'church can refuse to grant a marriage license to gay couples, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Most such officials swear an oath of some kind.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, the church do not hold a monopoly on granting marriage license'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'You're sayng "depending" means there is -some- limitation on your right to free speech?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Churches are exempt. You know very well I did not include them for obvious reasons.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'They chose to swear that oath- and by swearing oath they are liable and responsible for their actions- tho they can still act how they choose.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'imagine you and seiph were a gay couple. how would it make you feel to not be allowed to be with each other in a hotel like all the heteros'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'churches are not an institution that provides marriage services?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'we'd go fishing or to the koa'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because I didn't feel like having to tack on "Except churches".'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop being facetious.,'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'and then you go to the supermarket but you are not let in in case u contaminate the food'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a big chasm of difference between expressing a view/speech/religion and actively discriminating'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'its a good job religion is on the decline or gays wouldnt be able to come out like it was 50 yrs ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seiph will be right back! 
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How unfortunate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: '8% of the world are atheists'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'did u count that yourself gregor?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's just it, tofting, it's a problem that doesn't require legislation'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'nah, and I'm not claiming it's overly accurate. It's a good rough guide though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a business declines trade based on religious belief, it loses the trade'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote with your $'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I do believe you're mistaking "Atheism" with "Irreligion".'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There are many Buddhists out there. Buddhists are Atheists.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'ok, Irreligion then.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I'm not getting them confused, just using the most standard terminology.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'so you should be permitted to not give homos a job?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to WIkipedia: "23% are not religious"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just because people are making the same mistake, it doesn't mean you should make it as well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'also, irreligious doesn't mean atheist either =P'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I shouldn't be required to give anyone a job'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's my fucking point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'some people believe in God but don't do anything religious'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The link linked to in the WIkipedia article is for "Irreligion"...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'abe thats not a valid comment'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it most certainly is'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Ok, and I was discussing atheism. Not including Buddhism.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if people want to believe in God, let them, provided they're not unduly affecting my life, i don't care... i mean, people believe in crazier stuff..... like Obama being any good for America'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Funny how no one's argued that the, Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if I choose to hire, I choose to hire whomever I wish'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'not if youre getting it from what i said'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not true, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'name someone who's argued that on this channel today.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gay or otherwise, you have no claim to the job that I am looking to fill'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name someone who's argued that on this channel today.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Yuna and Tofting are two names'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, we argued that you're not allowed to FIRE someone for being gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"not give homos a job" is not about firing'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'you may absolutely hire who u wish. but what u should not do is NOT hire someone on the grounds of their sexuality'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'or race. or any other stupid reason'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, some jurisdictions actually make it illegal to choose not to hire someone simply because they're gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I should hire someone based on whatever the hell I damn well please :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'wow youre magnificent'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yeah, positive discrimination is just a big an issue as discrimination'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depending on your jurisdiction and what business you're in, that's not possible.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'but there is also legislation saying you have to hire based on race too.. thats not right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree with that, abe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Why should he be forced to hire someone based on what you believe or state?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes I am, tofting...by that token, I also should not show up to a major corporation's hiring class and be told "If you're a white male, don't bother applying"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody said he should he forced to hire someone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'you don't give a gay or a foreigner a job and suddenly you are doing it because you are discriminating, not making decisions on who your preferred applicant is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But he cannot deny someone the chance of a job because, among other things, they're gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just that, if I choose to hire someone, I should be forced to hire a PARTICULAR someone'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Like say they're qualified. They have a great interview, they are qualified for hte job, they have great credentials. If Abelinc says "I will not hire you and will instead hire someone less qualified because you're a fucking fag", that's actually illegal in some jurisdictions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'i get what you're saying about pos dis. but thats just there to give the minorities a lift. its not as bad as the other way round is it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As is firing someone simply because they're gay.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'and more importantly completely immoral.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be almost impossible to prove that someone wasn't hired because they were gay, unless it was given as a specific and unjustified reason'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hire somebody with less qualifications so they may be paid less'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone else might just 'fit in' better'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'completely immoral is your personal belief, tofting...but you can kiss my ass with your personal belief ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'thats a major problem tiger true'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'nice one abe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You bow deeply.
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'depends on what your workforce is like.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have some influence on the hiring process where i work, and one of the last things i look at is qualifications'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hire somebody with less qualifications and more team personality <--- may be iffy'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Thats not a major problem, Tofting.  I'll hire who I believe will best fit in my system regardless of qualifications, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, paper is just statistics...credentials often don't speak to real-world ability'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'especially with todays education system.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'And no one has the right to tell me who I should or should not give my money to by employing them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'In the private sector anyway =p'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unfortunately for me, I personally don't have an entreprenurial bone in my body...so while I'm used to being the boss, my hiring is more regulated and it's not my own dime paying for people...so I just get to bitch here and preach about my perfect world ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yay!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is there "((don't ask), don't tell), don't flaunt, don't parade, don't be a homosexual activist in the workplace" in the private sector'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'thought about forming a consultancy, but can't stand the amount of schmoozing and pimping yourself you've gotta do in order to be highly successful'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sexuality of any sort in the workplace is to be frowned on'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're there to work, not fraternise'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so "((don't ask), don't tell), don't flaunt, don't parade, don't be a sex-pervert activist in the workplace" in the private sector'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's EEOC for the larger employers'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, being gay is introducing sexuality into the workplace.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'sex in the workplace is good for morale'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but "don't flaunt" is easy enough to have policies for both straight and gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Specifically in my industry those things while once highly scrutinized have become more and more commonplace and accepted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck does that mean anyway? Men cannot wear nailpolish? Women can't wear "butch" clothes and hairstyles? Men cannot wear earings?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody can wear a cross'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I personally wouldn't employ someone that discriminates based on those items, but that is just me personally.  I'm not going to tell someone else..'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'krynal so if u wanted to not hire blacks because u hated them then thats ok? or female cause u hate women or whatever?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'How to run their own business.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'males wearing earrings are disgusting and disturbing'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Do I think it's ok?  No.  Not at all.  But I'm not going to tell someone what their moral and ethical foundations should be,'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tofting: why should he have to pay someone, out of his own pocket, that he hates to work for him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why not'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'are you gonna give him the money?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'why Zade? Because they disturb you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government should set the precedent with their own hirings, again, other people's policies irksome? out them and vote with your $'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if not, then shut the fuck up about how he spends his own :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Because it is a prviate enterprise and I'll hire whom I want.  If I were a public entity, be it a government agency or the like I would...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'abide by the doctrine set forth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'its not about that. its about the fact that he shouldnt hate someone for being gay black female or all of the above'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'heterosexual, homosexual, flaunting-sexual, annoying-sexual, in-your-face-sexual, males wearing earrings are disgusting and disturbing'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you get to say who he's allowed to hate now?!?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'That is an individuals choice though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'seriously, who the fuck do you think you are?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't bother.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why not. religions do'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, they don't'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they can request it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're just fueling their martyr complex. "How DARE you try to tell me who I can and cannot discriminate against?!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i voted down a potential employee on the grounds that he was an ass'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'i know yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Just because you do not agree with their morals or ethics doesn't give you the right now to let them have it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're telling him that he's not allowed to'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that descriminatory?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Not*'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'am I required to have black friends?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some restaurants enforce a reasonable dress-code for customers'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you can change clothes for a dress code...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'if these racists and homophobes etc are allowed in your eyes to do as they wish, then why am i not allowed to call them for it?v'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you are allowed to call them for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're not calling them for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'You can call them out on it all you want, but you aren't calling them out your forcing your own agenda on them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're stating that they've gotta hire someone that they hate (if they hire someone)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I also wouldn't hire someone for the public front desk who has tattoos all around his/her neck'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, how horrible for them'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'then why ask who the fuck do u think u are? who the fuck do they think they are? treating other humans as shite on the bottom of their shoe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they think they are themselves...behaving and believing as they are'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not telling YOU not to hire the black/gay'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you're quite able to right their wrongs and give them jobs'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depending on the nature of their business and their jurisdiction, it's illegal for them to NOT employ someone simpyl for being gay/black/whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we've covered that, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what happened to people not hating gay people?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we're not arguing what current law says, EEOC has been mentioned, etc...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Tofting, I agree with your personal feeling on how people should be treated but it's more an argument of application.  You seem to...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'feel that your ideas and standards should be forced on others.  I do not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Basically, you're outraged because people's abilities to discriminate freely are being encroached on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but I'll make it more clear by stating that my current statements are all strictly for private non-traded organizations, one owner, limited employees, personally-financed, etc...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But you will never admit it's because you yourself are bigoted but will claim it's because you support free speech.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not outraged about anything :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And freedom to... hate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'expressing a preference is a bit different to hating'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'krynal by that logic paki bashing is ok then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, I will openly defend the freedom to hate'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Has nothing to do with being ok.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'HATER!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Has everything to do with someone's right to have that sentiment.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is lots of discrimination in society (for lots of things other than gender preference)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and your actions and words show that you hate more than I ever will, yuna :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna is full of hate, I think i've pointed this out before'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not here calling people names, retards, etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes? I hate INDIVIDUALS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not for what they ARE. But what they say and do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Abelinc has called bullshit, you have a right to reply for 10 points'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'some peoples standards are that it is ok. in my country this is not permitted. ie the government enforces its standards by throwing them in jail'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where do you live, Tofting? Pretty sure they don't get jailtime. Hefty fines, yes. Jailtime? No.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'must live in north korea ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'And I disagree with that, but do I hate them?  No.  Do I personally afford them the right to have their own ideas.  Sure, it's your country.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'england. and yeah paki bashers go to jail if caught and proved in court'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, if they actually commit acts of violence, yesa.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not necessarily, people get jailed here for their speech'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But simply hating and discriminatign in the workplace doesn't lead to jailtime. Also, "paki" is a racist term employed by those very same bashers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That depends on what they're saying, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not all speech is free.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, is brit a racist term as well?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'completely against all the norms of an intelligent society'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'depends on the intent abe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we should protect the right to hate speech because one day our own speech may be hated'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If someone encourages people to "Kill the gays" during a speech, with a handout, whatever, that's HATE SPEECH and inciting violence. Which is illegal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'nod yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people have been jailed for far less than that'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Abelinc. Because Brit wasn't crafted to be a racist term.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither was Nigger, yet it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Limeys'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Until Paki started being used as a slur, it wasn't being used to mean "Someoen from Pakistan", as far as I know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bloody limeys!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'true'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something becomes offensive when someone decides to become offended by it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yuna: paki has been an abbreviation for pakistani as long as pakistan has existed'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'blimey'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nothing more, nothing less'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'pretty sure its Pakistani.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'and when someone intends offense'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, tofting'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'intention is irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it SHOULD be relevent, but it isn't in the eyes of the law'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'no intent is the only relevant thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"gay" is becoming a dirty word'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'becoming?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, tofting, but that's not the way the law interprets it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree with you, but you're wrong :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hehe, nicely worded, TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except you're wrong. Intent IS what matters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'for example ive used the word paki twice without it bring racist'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if someone were offended by it and complained, you could be prosecuted'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'intent only matters if the word by itself is NOT already considered racist.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A death threat isn't less of a death threat if you're being willfully obtuse.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'youve alredy agreed the law is separate from morality'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tofting: his "you're wrong" statements are only regarding the law, not regarding morality'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, abe'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'ok'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's why he said he agrees with what you're saying (morality), but you're wrong (law)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'soz missed that bit'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and unfortunately, that's the direction of travel in the UK and the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Blitish law is Blimey bad -- seems the judiciary is crook intolerant'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I blame it all on the T-ball leagues not keeping score'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'british law is bad because the judiciary, originally one of three independant planks of our system of government, is no longer independant'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same problem has occured in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're all winners! it's a participation prize, not a trophy!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sweet, I cleared out the channel'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And on Dictionary.com, Miniscule has it owns entry while Minuscle simply links to Miniscule.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'All Romney has to do is tie or win and I think he has this thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'just don't wet your pants if it happens, but do ready your booty for the umbrella  he is going to put in it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you claim that Obama is not good as president, but he sounded good when he made his promises, and so did George and Clinton and Bush I and so on and so on, so you just know what's going to happen if the mittens wins. He will turn out to be a liar just like the rest :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'lol don't they all lie?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Let's have a more friendly debate. Canadian bacon: for or against?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'They ARE politicians.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'though it didn't matter whether Clinton lied or not because he turned out to be good for the country.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, they all lie, but November is so in love with the mittens he actually believes him :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'some lie more than others... It's impossible to know many of Romney's true positions because he's such a panderer'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Not all lying is equal. Look at the fact-checking done during the debate. Both lied, but Romney exclusively lied.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure we can't, but the end result is predictable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'yeah, my dad used to beat my ass for lying. not my brother though, he only kinda lied. he got off scott free, that bastard'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because the problems facing the US can't be solved in 4 or 8 years, Bush's rape will take 20 to 25 years to fix.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Obama is most certainly not always honest but there's really no comparison between him and Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so if the mittens wins and fails, as he probably will, he will blame it on something or other.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'just like Obama will'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'responsibility? what's that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And Hoover blamed the depression on someone else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'the depression was my fault, I'll own that one'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Who said Romney would probably win? Not any poll I've seen recently...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'the recent gallop polls has him ahead'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'gallup'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Obama doesn't need to blame anyone, neither does the mittens, it is easy to show that there is no way to fix the damage to the country in 4 or 8 years. That's where the mittens is being dishonest, by claiming he can do what Obama can't when, in fact, if he tries to be a good president he will be hampered in the same way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'yeah, those'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'does anyone blame lameduck congress sessions for anything?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Or in the words of Seth Meyer and Weekend Update, he's ahead in people who still use land lines and answer calls from blocked numbers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'What incentive is there for a President to think for the long term when his term is (at most) 8 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but I doubt if he wants to be a president, he is already declared he is going to line the pockets of the already rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'be a good president*'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, gallup has him ahead by a mile...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '7 points?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think that's what I heard'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he clearly stated he doesn't give a damn about the 47%-ners :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, 6-7'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'has who ahead by a mile?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'rofl. what the fuck. a foreign policy debate turned to our economy already? haven't they talked enough about this?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if the gallop poll says it you can ignore it :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Actually, I think Romney was ahead in popular vote, but behind in a state-by-state electoral vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'In their last polls'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Might be thinking of someone else's polls, though'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'What percentage of Republicans still believe Obama is a Kenyan Muslim fascist Marxist? Easily in the double digits, right? Remind me again why everyone is allowed to vote...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'romney is going to win, and these folks that hate him will just have to deal with it, I rekcon'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'er, reckon'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'because everyone in the united states has equal freedom?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'A fundamental mistake'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'funny (but unsurprising) how much of the 47% don't seem to care or know that romney hates/despises them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'There are lots of people who aren't allowed to vote :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the mittens is pissed because his father tried to sneak into the president even though he wasn't a natural citizen, so now he's trying that tactic on Obama :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Well, voter suppression aside...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'not sure how someone that pays taxes (assuming Sonshi does) _Doesn't_  resent those that don't'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'here, take my money for free. '
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I guarantee you that there will be voter irregularities in OH and FL just like there has been for the last 2 elections.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'if that's your view, Sonshi, please donate 100$ in my name!'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'and if you don't pay taxes, fuck you, I hate you'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The same way they can donate to charity without resenting the people the money is helping?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you know, something about having a conscience. Might be hard to understand, much like how it's hard for the blind to really understand vision.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: '47% of the country is blind?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'or handicapped?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who is the 47%?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I guess the same applies to reading comprehension'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the 47% are the those in the US that don't make enough money to pay taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, the mittens doesn't promise to improve their lot :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Well, he probably did at some point'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while I'm mildly pissed that some of my taxes are going towards making bombs to kill people, I can't help but view those who are unwilling to part with a bit of tax money to help those less fortunate than themselves as being cold hearted. Clearly, some hold different views...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'sure do. I work on those bombs that kill lots of people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'You seem to have a really simplistic view of who the 47% actuallya re'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'part? you make it sound like it is pennies. The amount of money the US spends on the military alone would float more than one small nation each year.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if the money were turned into the country there wouldn't be jobless.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'so would the amount we spent on social benefit programs'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more than one medium-sized one, at that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I lot of the 47% aren't all that poor. Some of them are "useless" retirees who don't do anything "productive" and "leeching" off society on account of, you know, being retired.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how much more do we spend on social benefit programs? all of it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(a lot)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there's a balance to be had...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, so you are saying it's ok to waste the money on bombs (you are only mildly pissed, after all) but hey, if it feeds someone, that's bad. So spend the money to kill not to help live. Got your point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what's the balance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'everyone bitches, what's everyone's solution?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but I do not begrudge them that'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Did they not themselves contribute to SS?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so if the choice is to make bombs or buy meals, you rather spend it on bombs...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'SS is broke, used to fun a pointless war'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'enough to ensure a decent standard of living. This can be done cheaply, and rescue the economy at the same time, if republican taxpayers quit their whining'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'is that the choice we're faced with right now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'To call it leeching approaches a downright lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'You contribute to SS to pay for other people.  You don't get any of that money back.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'shit, I just ate, hope that wasn't my last meal...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'You do when you retire... that's kind of the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the problem is the Bush "borrowed" the money from the SS fund and it hasn't been paid back, so that's one of the problems.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'no, you put money in SS for those that don't put their own money into a retirement plan. those with other retirement plans don't give a shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Yes I do'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'the US governemtn has borrowed money from the SS fund since the 1960s'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Those with other retirement plans still get social security'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The whole fund is all IOUs now'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Actually, without SS, people tend to undersave. This relationship has been studied quite a bit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'if you plan on getting SS now, and you're under 30, I have a bridge to sell you'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people work for their entire lives, paying into social security, and republicans want to take that away, and dismiss these (formerly) hard working retirees as victims... sad really.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'SS and ALL other forms of welfare assistance programs were raided for funds the moment they were established.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, all that is required is to balance the general budget. Just raise more taxes from the wealthy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the structural deficit isn't even large, after all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'so take money from one person to give to another?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'We're at about 1/14th of Ireland's debt/GDP ratio... hardly time to panic'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if tax revenues on the top 5% were to increase 10% at the margin, that should about fix the structural deficit, depending on conditions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'That is fundamentally how taxes work...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Hahah, yeah. Ireland, love its people and culture, but its economy is really irrelevant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that is how everything works in the economy...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Distribute money from those whose marginal utility is very low to those whose marginal utility is very high'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The SS was stolen by Bush to finance his two concurrent wars, then republicans tell the people there needs to be SS reforms because SS is broke...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'when did Bush steal it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well if they are dumb enough to let it happen they deserve it'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Both parties have raided SS for 60 years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he was taught that by the Dems.  And Dems were the ones who started SS to begin with.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pro-business policies are redistributive. There's no good reason why redistribution should only go from the poor to the rich, and not the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't  know the exact date, if that is what you are asking, but the "borrowing" was made public some time after he declared the wars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'The borrowing started (and never stopped) when FDR was still able to walk.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, the insiuation that it is all Bush's fault is weak. Both parties are guilty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or climb onto his bitch when Th War got too scary for him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one party pushed for both the bush tax cuts and the wars...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are being silly, Hanslanda. The two parties didn't declare 2 concurrent wars, Bush did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Tax cuts can cause the US government to *make* more money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are there any other causes of the crisis that even approaches the magnitude of each of those reasons?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '2007 was the year when the US government brought in the most revenue, ever. Look it up. Bush Tax Cuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'tax cuts reduce revenue. Growth raises revenue'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Tax cuts *can* cause the government to make more money, if you're referencing the Laffer curver, but no one know what side of that curve we're on'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'curve, even'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, that's good to know, November. Now if you tell me to which of my back accounts some of that government revenue went, I'll be glad to spend it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'bank account*'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I didn't say they spent it wisely. They just took in a lot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'to prtend that revenue rises due to growth and inflation are derived from low taxation is an outright lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even more than the 1950s when a bunch of WW2 vets with a whole lot of work ethic decided sitting on their ass all day was a bad thing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and if I think about it, somehow increased government revenue translate to more taxes being paid.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'There's some merit, however unlikely, to what he said: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's no evidence that the laffer curve is continuous'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'whether in theory or in practice'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you know, personally, I don't care who sits in the White House, since none of their actions will be defensible. What bothers me is that there are people that try to defend political actions who are clearly benefiting a few and harming a majority. Unless you are Halliburton, Enron, or an oil company. You are taking it in the ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, leisure is a giffen good under certain circumstances...'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'or Eli Lilly, they suppliers of the wonder drug Prozac :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in practice, a country would not survive for long if the poor were taxed on the so-called "wrong side" of the laffer curve.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and with the usual progressive taxation, there is no eveidence that top marginal tax rates can cross to the "other side" without hitting 100%. (discontinuity)'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You kind of get the sense that neither of these guys really know what to do to solve Middle East problems. I think they can have buzzwords like Strength (romney) or Coalition (obama) but that's all they really got.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sigh, I miss the days of Ronald Reagan who had a clear moral authoritative strategy of strength that won a Cold War.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Twitter numbers are nearly half of the last debates. Americans are tuning out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you mean gorbachev, who kindly lost the cold war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Thanks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it seems nuts is actually working today'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything happening here ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that sucked'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'what did?! Where do I stand in line for this treatment? 0_o'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Romney kicked ass in the debate.  What are you so down about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'presidential debate on foreign policy was 90 minutes of my life i'll never get back'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kicked ass? oh please, they're almost inseperable on foreign policy, only difference is the american empirism, hypocrisy, and warmongering is mainly covert with obama and overt with romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Mitt went in with a specific gameplan in mind, and he totally nailed it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he might have, i still don't agree with either of their foreign policies'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more accurately, i vehemently disagree with their foreign policies'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'debates haven't been meaningful since the 2 parties got powerful enough to take moderation away from the league of women voters'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty accurate'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might be more meaningful if they had the other candidates'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, it wouldn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would, you might get some alternative policies'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'those who wear their policies on their sleeves wouldn't last long enough.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd still rather see them'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rather than Barack 'No policies' Obama, and Mitt 'Nuke the middle east' Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Mittens track record at Bain suggests if elected, he will send all the jobs overseas, sell off the assets, pocket as much of the profit as possible, and pass the husk over to some patsy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the entire point of the debate isn't to get the message out, it's to make your image more favorable than the other guy's.  Romney went into this last debate knowing the voters didn't want to see more attacks, so he just let Obama run all over him with his horses and bayonets.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already happened under Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the jobs are overseas already'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not really any significant amount of jobs left to send'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and job export to china ceased in late 2010, approximately'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which reminds me I was going to check some chinese demographic figures'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'honestly, that just sounds like drabble to mask the fact that the majority of people thought that Obama crushed the third debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..they might be headed for Japan x 10 in twenty years'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'breaking news: China's still horribly overcrowded. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody crushed anything, it was shit'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the polls are showing different, I think.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have not seen the debate and don't support any of the candidates, so I don't really care about that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'a cnn poll released says 48% of people think Obama won the debate compared to Romney's 40%. romney sucked in the last debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well good luck to you, romney wins you'll be having a nuke war, if obama wins, welcome to re-education camps, a police state, and the death of freedom'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'boy have you ever got a hobson's choice'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sucks to be you guys, seriously'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'according to fed/bls numbers, about 2m of the mfg. jobs lost during the past decade were due to improved efficiency'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'aka. better robots and such'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'those jobs didn't go to China, and they are never coming back'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'good for me, I make robots'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada coaches The Jerk Fiendish in the subtle art of *beep* legal scripts.
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yah, a lot of people don't realise that manufacturing jobs won't -be- coming back, robots do most of it these days'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'exactly, the solution is better education. The grunt jobs are slowly disappearing'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'something similar is likely to happen to China during the next decade - lost of factory jobs lost to robots'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better education for what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'for the people.....? clearly'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for them to do what, Saric?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'controlling and repairing robots, of course.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm still not sure how much of the factor income shift is due to machinery and how much is zombie banks'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'research, invention, and building these robots that are "taking our jerbs"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'gonna need a master's just to do menial labor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'roboticists will always need gardeners and maids, oops roomba'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll never be many jobs doing that, Saric, by definition'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'uh, no. There's always space for research'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, there isn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'robots are smarter and more loyal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'research is expensive, it will only be done if there's a return'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'literally every large company in existance does extensive research'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basics of economics should tell you that research cannot fill the void of manufacturing'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'tigernuts: that is why it should be funded by government for the public good'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who funds the government?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the only company that does actual science is aperture science'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'based on campaign spending? bankers :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'ok, an intelligent and educated populace is more likely to find potential returns, start business, invent profitable things, etc... seriously, how on earth can you argue against education, of all things?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'yo mom! Yo mom funds the government Now shut that bitch up before we cum-start her head!'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats just it, the only reason the economy hasn't been in a deep depression for 10 years is because of the derivatives money, i.e invented money - causing huge debts for the next generation. It's pretty obviously not a sustainable model'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why the UN Bioethics and population science people want to depopulate the planet by about 90%'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'taxes will ensure the rich don't bother wasting effort on something that's just going to be taken from them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'm ok with depopulating'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you first'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'll be on the A ark'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'as a highly skilled roboticist'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your ark will be sunk'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'lost in space, maybe'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, it was a waste of 90 minutes and both should be ashamed of themselves for being hypocrits'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'if election cycles prove anything, it's that hypocrisy and lying work really well'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because the electorate are dumb'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I blame television'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we'll start with Africa.  It's already trashed with first-world technowaste, war is almost a national pastime for much of it, and, hell, even God doesn't like the place ("Blood Diamond", starting Leonardo DiCaprio and that african guy).  Take the people out, and we've got a ridiculously enormous landfill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'journalism has been dead for a long time'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I blame the state supreme court of florida for saying that television news media have'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'no obligation to tell the truth'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'biggest hypocrit moment was Obama castigating Iran for being a state sponsor of terror'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone pass the guy a mirror'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'btw, I believe 4 of the 3rd parties are debating tonight'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'not in any meaningful venue'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's impressive given only 2 3rd parties are contesting most states'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'there are always like 10 parties'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what's impressive is that they'll be getting less ratings than AirAmerica.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I just heard on the radio that doctors have shown that feeding your kids organic food doesn't give them any extra nutrition.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'talk about a strawman. the point of organic food is to reduce pesticides'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in science, though, it's not actually true until it can be proven.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's why we had studies to determine if water was wet (it was determined that it was), if you could get a chimpanzee high on cocaine (you can, and with similar dosages as humans), and exactly which species had the largest penis relative to body size.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or maybe it's because, in many fields of research, there is, shall we say, a shortage of common sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or, perhaps rather, a willingness to spend gov't money on your own career, whether or not the research is useful'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We may have 100 times the number of "researchers" we had two generations ago, but we have also had a similar change in the type of research being done, since, sadly, the number of very clever people doesn't change that much'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so I have seen PhD's awarded in Norway for brilliant and useful findings like - if you talk to people you can get to know them (psychology), or "boys are more likely than girls to draw pictures of machines (pedagogics)'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'in my own fields you get a thousand finance researchers applying the formulas of a dozen very smart people to slightly different situations and passing it of as clever contributions, or law professors trying their best to make social security law look complicated (at least in Norway it isn't)'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'related - http://youtu.be/yr_Rpk9HR1g'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jobs for the boys'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..a physician I know got a phd after finding out that people with stomach problems would feel more uncomfortable than people without stomach problems if they ate/drank a pint of soup very quickly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Anyone for Spellup?'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'meh mis, obviously'
T3/r7/2012-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Obama!'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'any other reason is big time bs. If there is no profit, there is no war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone home here ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fearing a movement calling air travellers to "opt out and film" tsa fully body scanners this thanksgiving, Big sis removes fullbody x-ray scanners from a bunch of airportsa#'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in direct conflict with the narrative given by the whitehouse for 4 days, CBS news publishes emails sent by the executive office on sep 11 at 180:08 that Ansar al-Sharia claimed responsibility for the attack and that it was an attack by a group of armed men'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'CBS certainly wasn't the only station to publish the emails'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i would imagine a whistleblower sent them to a bunch'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip agrees!
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Look man, just because someone admits to doing something doesn't really mean they did it. '
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Clearly, it was the random I hate muslims video'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, and clearly the special forces team stationed in the same compound were told to stand down by accident'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'special forces teams always stand down in conflict, man, read a friggin book'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Chicago man has the word "racist" plastered over his window over a sign he put up that said:  Romney, if you want to be president, you have to say this: If Im elected, I will not bow down to the king of Saudi Arabia and Obama, I built this business working 7 days a week, you didnt.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Race cards are the best.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's only card the democrats have left, it seems'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tennessee mother sentenced to one year probation for refusing to let TSA grope her 14yr old daughter's crotch'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'setting a dangerous precedent'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a 20yr old black woman from Louisiana is in a critical condition in hospital after scrawling KKK on her own car and setting herself on fire in an attempt to incriminate the organisation'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just goes to show you that if you want to do things right, vote republican.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone on the radio said months and months ago this election would end up being about race'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'unlike the last election'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'years ago, Tiger.  Fox News pointed it out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, what's up with all the women supporting Obama and men supporting Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything left of center is obsessed with race'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if it's not obsessed with race, it's obsessed with sexuality'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'political correctness, perhaps'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably related to the Akin comments.  Women have such weird logic, sometimes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'political correctness is a socialist thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, last time I heard, romney was starting to catch up to obama in his approval from women'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'I wish women approved of me =('
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'course, I haven't double checked that in a few days, but I doubt it's changed'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Socialists are left of centre, usually :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Aid charities scorn the "affordable medicines facility for malaria" as a big waste of money'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '538 wrote about it some days ago, said there was a large gender gap'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel planes bomb a weapons factory in Sudan'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK parliament ignores European Court Ruling - refuses to give prisoners a vote in election'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In Norway, you can lost your right to vote if you'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'norway isn't in the EU'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'oops, are convicted of treason or enter into (military) service for another nation'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We are in the EEC, though, so in all sorts of areas our laws are (nearly) the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why isn't Donald Trump considered a national disgrace yet?'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's worth too much to ignore.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'EEA, I mean :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because he's got superstar hair'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the best hair money can buy'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, in his case, the best hair company money can buy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I doubt what he uses is available to just anyone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no market for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, he's looking for a bit of free advertising for his tv programs, no doubt'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$1.3bn was lost/misplaced/held up for weeks or months at a time as a result of sharp processes by UK banks in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like banks are now pointless to the private customer'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and my favourite news item of the day: Romney's son invests in the company that provides electronic voting machines in Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well I'm sure his investment will get them to put in a backdoor just for him'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i seriously doubt that'
T3/r7/2012-10-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too obvious'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.gizmag.com/russia-female-android/24675/'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but is she anatomically correct, that's the question.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'you seen the video in that page?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'pretty realistic, except her right pupil looks a bit large as if she has had a concussion.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i know, and it dosent open alot the mouth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but in a way is like a human...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, for the first try it's excellent. By the time the get everything worked you might not be able to know it's not human.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i know, maybe they already have'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'you know show the crappy one, but have others..'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'possible, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can bet the government if funding that project :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i dont know if i agree with it or not'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'of course they should be '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'not sure havent really thought about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'you can send those things everywhere to mars etc '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, not "of course", but governments tend to have bottomless purses and/or don't care to waste money :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but how much ai the thing has? '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'and i have seen to many jap manga, and always those kind of machines evolve and want to kill all humans hehe'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the reason I would prefer private funding is because they would be driven to make a profit from it so the work would be quicker and of higher grade.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'true'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That one doesn't move in the vid; check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv-_Vai9DgI'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'thats crazy is like the movie nirvana'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that one looks really real, if you ignore some of the jerky movements.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'yea and the other as well was talking in jap'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The natural gesticulation/swaying is what does it; the Russian looks more realistic'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm sure what they've truly got is light years ahead of what's shown, as mentioned'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yomx7bXMf2U&feature=endscreen'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'yea i bet'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, they have to get a bigger eye-movement loop, after a while it was predictable where she was going to look next.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'give them 10 years, those things will be walking among us and we won't know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'or maybe in less, they just have to fix little things'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, and they are not androids, androids have bio-components :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'what are they?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'robots? hehe'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'robots, androids are very closely related to clones, except they are not cloned, their DNA is fabricated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, once you create the first android, then you clone them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the things in the video will come out of assembly lines :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'yea'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and the assembly lines will probably be 100% robotic :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'AI  www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysU56JzBjTY'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'omg'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i like his accent'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'and he thinks he has emotions and goals...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'and he said he can entretain... really? So many questions...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I can see that the escort industry will take a devastating blow :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'yeap'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kThr6CMLrvg&feature=relmfu'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They should make a few others and let the AI advance itself'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, first they have to develop true AI. Programs are not AI. They have to come up with a way to create AIs with biological material.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is no way to code all the possible neural interactions'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you have pulled him out of the closet, Covenant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'My good friend Percy Liang would argue that you are very wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'what are you debating about now'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'And so would Larry Abbott'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he can argue all he wants, but a program can't cut it. Sure, you can have a program make a robot do a very complex task, and as long as all the variants are programmed in, things are fine. But what happens when the deviation is outside the scope of the program?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can create replicas and let them interact amongst themselves to find said boundaries'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'well this robot says he has feelings and that he is scared etc. Check it out all the videos of jules.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you propose to have every possible deviation coded into the program.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'not sure'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I will like to see your secondary storage :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a hard drive the size of the city of New York :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and that is just for one job :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, from a CS point of view or a bio point of view :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'What happens to natural intelligence outside the scope of its 'program' (principles?)? What IS that scope?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Naturally intelligent beings (people, say) don't behave pathologically in borderline circumstances?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, of course I don't know what I am talking about. Why would I find it difficult to accept that they can write a program that reacts to every possible input.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure they do, Tharnin. But the boundary for humans is actually unexplored, we don't know where that is. For a robot, it is already determine at assembly time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'maybe will be easier for the thing if he dosent have every possible output. hehe (sarcasm)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you watch one of those vids, the AI recognizes his limited facilities'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he doesn't recognize his limitations, the program does.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he doesn't have cognition.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'cognition is an alogrithmic process'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'I'm not sure any AI researchers are really pursuing a "switch with a case for every possible input combination" approach anymore, anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, sure, and of course the algorithm handles all the possible cognitive  processes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, of course not, Tharnin. As I said, a hard drive the size of the city of New York, just for one job.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'nah he can upload like cloud'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'New York is probably an underestimate, but right. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you need a lot more interconnections that you can build with circuitry, at least right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe when quantum computers come online that will be a different story.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'As someone who studies psychology as a hobby while studying IT, this conversation is quite interesting, but is missing the point entirely'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The human mind has enough storage capacity to react to most any situation - whether it is the 'best' reaction is debatable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Is someone that chooses non-optimally not using their potential capacity, or do they have diminished capacity'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Nobody chooses optimally, beyond 'what they consider to be optimal''
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what makes the human brain (any brain really) work is massive parallelism, not speed. Studies have shown that the signals don't move that fast in the brain simply because the entire thing relies mostly on chemical  reactions, but the data is process in parallel so prolifically that the effective execution is seems it's linearly fast.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If the latter's the case, one could simply produce a limited-scope AI, which is what seems to be the future'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I can accept limited-scope.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And you realise supercomputers work exactly the same way? Look at http://www.top500.org/'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The whole point is the human brain codes itself - and that is what AI is working towards.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I can accept that, that they WILL, but they are not at the moment. No one really knows where quantum computers are going to take us.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Finger on the nose there. The AI doesn't have to "know everything" when it rolls off the line. It has to be able to recognize that it doesn't know something, remember it, and see how it fits in with what it does know. The rest is experience. (Very simplified version. Don't crucify me, Vakieh.)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'There is the psychological concept of 'boxing' - humans develop conceptual 'boxes', in which they place like thoughts, concepts, etc. So you might have a box for cat, and a box for dog.  The boxes specialise, 'black cat', 'brown dog''
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, the human (and other brains) code itself, and it also uses previous code. But the important thing is the ability to recognize the objective without being told. If you are going to tell me that telling an AI that he should go to Mars is going to get him to create everything he needs to get there, I say that's bs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ana, you start at FAR more fundamental intelligence than that - first, survive'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Learning increases from that single goal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we survive automatically, that's wired into our systems.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Can 2 identical AI learn and program themselves?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'by exploring the boundaries of their AI'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Why? It took us about 200k years, and we still haven't actually set foot there...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wired into our system how?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if they could learn, but what is learning?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: '(Mars. Sorry. I fell behind.)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Everything humanity has ever done, it has done to survive.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wire it into the AI the same way'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'aha, that's the beauty of it. There is no hard-coded survival, just the survival imperative.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'This sounds a lot like you are talking out your arse'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'har'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'xchan'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'when we are in danger we react without having previously been in that situation, we assess the danger and act to minimize it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Without having been in *that exact situation* - that is approximation'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's prolly easier to reduce it to: we choose the highest payoff action'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, once you become human or actually a biological entity, Vakieh, you will understand what i mean.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'But humans often choose a lower pay-off action to receive a higher later; not sure you could program an AI to do that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, that works, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I might never buy candy bars and choose to save, but may buy one for someone else to increase friendship'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what makes the human brain different is that it is able to suspend action when it receives an input and process it later, or maybe never.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How do you program an AI to understand that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The human mind works through this boxing concept, as I said - it takes a new situation, finds the closest box, or combination of boxes, and reacts accordingly'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if it chooses to react.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And if you designed a computer in that manner, it could too'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the human brain is capable to record the input without reacting to it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No, it isn't - because the recording is a reaction in and of itself'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Per the boxing idea, when do "you" or "your mind" decide to make a new box, or just fudge it into an existing one'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'The recording IS a reaction. Choosing to ignore it is a reaction, specifically, deciding that the stimulus doesn't warrant significant response.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like platypus; it's a mammal that lays eggs, so they created monotremes'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Your mind is constantly processing information, working out which is its closest box(es) (and specialising as necessary - creating new boxes) and pulling up  the response it associates with said box'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the recording is only a reaction because the sensors are online, you are saying that input only touches the brain when it allows it. That's bs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: ''ignore' is a response it chooses actively'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that implies there's a period of box-forming past which no new boxes are created'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ignores to respond, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'when does the mind warrant creation of a new box'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'DosseT, if you experienced EVERYTHING, ever, completely, then you would run out of boxes - you would forget many, many things before that time, however'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The concept of 'boxes' is an abstraction, of course, the process is far more complicated'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are running down the street to catch the bus, on the way there you stub your toe, it hurts like hell but you keep running until you catch the bus. Then uou sit down and tend  to your toe. That's an example of delay. The recording of the pain was automatic and had no bearing at the moment.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and even that is way high-level.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Well, you derived more payoff from catching the bus than reducing the pain'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My god you are moronic if you believe that Ana'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You understood the elasticity of the situation: that you could tend your toe later and not catch the bus later'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe so, but more than that, some input can be put on suspense forever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You hurt your toe - you remember that you hurt your toe, and your decision is LEAVE IT FOR NOW - that is processing and reacting'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, Vakieh, that is a reaction, so what.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A computer sees you require an update to windows. It sees you are currently running a game, so it doesn't update...until you close the game.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Same process.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and that is all programmed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'You walk in to the living room, your wife is asleep so you don't turn the tv on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If you want to follow back the bus analogy to where it was 'programmed' into the human, here goes:'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you walk into the living room, your wife is asleep, you are pissed off at her, you turn the tv on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how are you going to program that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tend the toe->miss the bus->late to work->lose job->can't afford food->starve and die. Survivial as a programmed goal'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'late for work: -2, pain : -1'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a series of flowcharts, and each node checks a payoff'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wake wife->wife is angry->wife leaves->no sex with wife->no babies->Survival.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Vakieh, how does "boxing" explained engrained knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like monarchs and salmon migrating'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'seems like it applies to external stimuli'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That is not knowledge, as they are not sentient. Boxing is a sentient phenomenon'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'a salmon returning to its spawning ground is not knowledge?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, that is exactly right. But we make up the flowcharts on the fly. We don't have some guy at some station typing in code on what to do when we stub our toes or walk into the living room. We decide on the fly and we can choose do to anything we want at that moment. The AI will, at best, do anything that he is programmed to do explicitly. He will search a database of responses based solely on what the programmers think are adequate responses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you walk into the living room, your wife is asleep on the couch, you walk to your bedroom get a gun come to the living room and blow her head off.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, how are you going to program that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Explain the prime motivation, and it's simple'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ask the guy with the gun'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The program is usually "choose highest pay-off"'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'stop at a decision point (node): what do I derive most from?  choose that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but for a human high-payoff is private, and variable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'can you use books instead?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it could change any number of times in a unit of time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You clearly don't understand how programming works...it ALL builds on base input.  The computer only knows 0 and 1, and yet it is capable of displaying 23,971.  Until you understand that, don't worry your little head over it all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't understand the point, Vakieh. You are trying to tell me that you can code non-linear behavior, that's bs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The person programming the machine didn't go through and set up triggers for 2, 3, 4...23,969, 23,970, 23971. And yet - the computer does it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't need to code everything'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You break down the situation into its most basic components, then look at those.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, you do, so what  is the smallest unit then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '0 and 1'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, that's very cute.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not really, it's actually quite awesome'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, that's not  true in high level language but I'll let that slide :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Um. Wat? High level languages boil right down to 0 and 1 regardless of any other concerns'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Humans always choose highest payoff.  If it's not immediately evident, it will become so later (i.e. saving a dollar now to make more later).'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lua communicating to C# communicating to the CLI communicating to C communicating to X86... bam, 0 and 1'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, no, C uses an entire 32 bits for a flag.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tharnin buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '32...0s and 1s'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, when only one bite is sufficient :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'bit*'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'anyway, you have your ideas and I have mine and I am going  to the bathroom :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'have a nice ride!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'would you rather be a leper or a zombie?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'or a zombie with lepracy'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'cant have both'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'zombie. I'd have to wait for something else to kill me'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'leper, your face falls off on its own'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'bump the table and there goes your leg!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'a zombie could live forever and be miserable'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how do you know they're miserable?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'they moan'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Hungry Windigo: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'my wife moans, she's definitely not miserable'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'not to be debated'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'good point. maybe all zombies are havinag a constant orgazm'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'definitely worth finding out'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Romney slightly ahead in polls the last two days, I see'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If I had to pick one of those two people to spend time with, I would to go with Romney. Too bad picking the better (or less bad) president is a bit more difficult.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'National Guard whistleblower: In the event of civil unrest after the election, the National Guard will be quelling unrest and confiscating guns. "Preppers" will be treated as terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, yes. I'm suuuuure you can properly source that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what are preppers'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CNN founder Ted Turner says "I think it's good" that more american soldiers commit suicide than are killed in combat'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Preppers are people who keep stocks of food and water, and have trained in the skills to survive in the event of major disruption to regular society'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you little twerp. That's not what he said at all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223260/Ted-Turner-CNN-founder-says-good-U-S-soldiers-committing-suicide-large-numbers-proves-humans-arent-programmed-kill.html'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop LYING'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a direct quote from Shithead Morgan's show'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and attempts to "confiscating guns" is likely to get the National Guard killed somewhat'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Zade, i think that's the point'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'jesus said i would vote for obama but he is islamic and i would vote for romney but he is capitalist'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But you're leaving a lot out to twist what he said to fit your disgusting agenda.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'jesus voted for sammich instead since sammich is the secret to happiness'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a misquote, it's not even out of context'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is "Shithead Morgan" an alarmist rabblerouser republican'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, I'm watching the fucking clip RIGHT NOW. That's not even a direct quote!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Piers Morgan is an ex-English newspaper editor who may end up in prison over the phone hacking scandal'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Piers Morgan: You made the point to me in the break there that more American service are dying. Ted Turner: Are dying now. Piers Morgan: From suicide. Ted Turner: Than are dying in combat. Piers Morgan: That's shocking, isn't it. Ted Turner: No, I think it's good because it's so clear that we're programmed and we're born to love and help each other, not to kill each other, destroy each other, that's an aberration...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as to Piers Morgans' political allegiance? "Whomever is winning" would be accurate'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Congratulations, Tigernuts, you failed to provide an actual quote. You smushed two people's quotes together and then cut out the important part that made it make sense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not killing themselves because they're soldiers'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's good to know how little credibility you have.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not killing themselves because they're fighting'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not the point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, yes it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The comment was stupid'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're free to disagree with Ted Turner's arguments. You cannot, however, misconstrue them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And misquote him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And claim it's a direct quote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't misquote him at all, he thinks it's an improvement that now more soldiers commit suicide than die in combat'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the conclusion he draws is entirely flawed'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts: CCN founder Ted turner says: "I think it's good" that more american soldiers commit suicide than are killed in combat" That's a DIRECT QUOTE...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except it WASN'T'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'wouldn't that require him to say something like 'soldiers commiting suicide is much better than when they just used to kill people' ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you didn't provide the context. I had to provide it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So it's clear you were twisting what he said to make him look like an unpatrotic leftist who hates the military.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? that's exactly what he said, and what i said he said and the context was accurate'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's YOUR interpretation of what i said'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not an EXACT QUOTE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you not understand what the term "exact quote" means?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was an exact quote'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'HOW?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it's what he said?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK is it an exact quote if he didn't actually say EXACTLY that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm watching the fucking clip AS WE SPEAK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so did i'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so "Shithead Morgan" is a term coined by "Shithead Tigernuts" ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's in the article I JUST linked to on this channel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because i didn't post the rest of the conversation'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's NOT an exact quote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You merged Piers Morgans' and Ted Turners' quotes together! And claimed it was all Ted Turner.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Thus, it was NOT an exact quote of what TED TURNER said.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Have fun being a fucktard.-'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so if i abbreviate the quote, it's not the quote, if i give the full quote, it's misinterpreted, well done Yuna have a banana'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you didn't build that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can abbreviate it as long as you don't claim it's an EXACT QUOTE.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tak, must distrust anything Tigernuts posts '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"What, no, I think it's good"'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's how I treat everything Tigernuts posts. He still has yet to provide sources for the claim that the National Guard is planning on rounding up Obama's militant detractors post-election or whatever the fuck he claimed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts seems to think every single anti-Obama conspiracy theory has merit unless proven verifiably false, even when there's absolutely no evidence to prove them true.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna thinks everything said in opposition to his lefty communist stance is wrong, even if proven'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'anybody that is not a prepper is more likely to be a traitor'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and worships Obama as a deity'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Obama is right wing...just saying'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama is right-wing by non-U.S. standards. But Mitt Romney is to the right of the right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Tigernuts is still sore about the whole American independence thing, and would just as soon see the US implode...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like the US to return to a Constitutional Republic, Ped, but that ain't going to happen with either candidate'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is Yuna's mom'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Preppers" are good folk (and are evem biblical)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm surprised Tigernuts hasn't openly declared himself a birther. He argued Obama's a secret muslim, after all, a while back, based on a ring Obama wears idiots claim is engraved with Koran versus when they, in fact, verifiably aren't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio&feature=player_detailpage'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He then switched to "Well, regardless, nobody can be sure whether or not he's a Muslim. And that ring could very well have Koran verses on it. We just don't see them on that Hi-res photo." Or some shit. I don't know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you voted twice yet, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's impossible to vote twice in Sweden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the same goes for the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop people'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you going to join your brethren and riot when Romney wins?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of "It's impossible" are you too stupid to comprehend?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I will lol all the way to the bank if Romney wins - about time the US went under'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not impossible to vote using absentee ballots belonging to other people, it's been done many many many times before'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I will watch another 4 years of the U.S. going down the shitter. I opposed Bush before he was even elected. I oppose Bush to this day.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not fucking voting twice.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's forging someone else's vote, a separate thing altogether.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh fuck off with your nit picking'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's just you telling half-truths, as usual.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Yuna cusses too much - and invalidates himself (as not actually believing those cussed posts himself --> sloppy debating)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And if absentee ballot voting is such an issue, why isn't THAT what the Republicans are zeroing in on? Why waste MILLIONS on voter ID fraud?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your arse and your elbow are seperate things altogether, and you can't tell them apart either'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the republicans bought up the companies that make the voting machines, duh'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whenever somebody cusses, they bullcrapshitting out their mouth'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So if they're just greedy crooks, why do you support them again?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Funny how you're always raging against "The left" then. So you support... anarchy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, funny how you said Romney will win.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know this is difficult for your peabrain to understand, but there are more stances than "Democrat" and "Republican"'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Romney could win, however scary a thought that is, because in general the American public is dumb and reactionary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see... you constantly demonize Obama, the Democrats, anyone on the left. You NEVER demonize anyone on the right (you'll argue against some right-wingers sometimes for posterity's sake, but they're far, in-between and obviously just to cover your tracks).'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have very selective hearing, every time that I have said (and I have said it numerous times) that whomever wins, USA is screwed'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'AND whenever someone criticizes the right, you're there to defend them. No matter how indefensible they might be.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'every time you pretend not to hear it because it doesn't fit neatly with your illusion of reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Shockingly, I believe that makes you a right-wingers.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take the red pill, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's not use big words if we don't know what they mean, Tigernuts. You misused "whomever".'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd be a liability in reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Mr. Obama is a Secret Muslim.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your words, not mine'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, actually, yours. You're just feigning forgetfulness again. Or actually just lying through your teeth. I simply do not care anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, i just pointed it out as an interesting story, which you'll notice i often do with interesting stories'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except you ended your part in the debate with "Well, he might still be a secret muslim!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's not pretend you're just trying to cover your ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he could be a secret jew, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he might be a secret muslim'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Exactly, you're a weasel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't change the fact that he's gone, so it doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but not a secret buddhist? '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a buddhist could never be as much of an arse as Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're not brave enough to actually say what you mean. Instead, you hide between "He might be!" as if it's some kind of defense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've clarified my position on that. you choose to either ignore or misrepresent it, that's your problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the same bullshit as saying "Is Obama secretly plotting to take over the world! Read our source's rant!" -> "Well, that wasn't much. But there's a source! He might be! We're not saying he is, though!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where's his plan to balance the budget?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, that's right, he doesn't have one'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where's Mitt Romney's?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he doesn't have one either'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's no magical hand-wave possible to balance the budget.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There are only ways to ensure the U.S. doesn't fall even further into a depression.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'get a majority in both house of Congress and raise the taxes on the rich ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a cool sounding story'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://thehill.com/blogs/global-affairs/un-treaties/264121-texas-sparks-international-row-with-election-observers'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that the one about the UN coming in to monitor the elections?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they've been doing that for the last decade, which is scary'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Texas loves winding the globalists up'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's Texas. It's run by Republican Christian Zealots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Texas has a very large democrat/UN base in Austin'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately the rest of Texas has more sense'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'More sense because they're further right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah... sense. "We oppose critical thinking in school". Sense... yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not specifically, they have an understanding of the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Constitution opposes critical thinking?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Which part is being misunderstood, exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't like them? let them declare independence'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of it these days'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I would love nothing more than for Texas to seceede from the nation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure why the obsession with electronic voting, costs 5x as much and has huge amounts of fraud possible'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: '...couldn't possibly have anything to do with the 2000 election or anything...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an improvement'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Where's your evidence to the contrary?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'electronic voting without a verifiable paper-trail is open to voting fraud '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thankyou, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do a google search for it, tons of stories and videos about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'As someone who has dealt with paper to electronic conversions for some seriously sensitive topics - electronic is safer. Not 100%, nothing ever is, but a fuckton more than paper.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'electronic voting would be safe if backed up by paper voting'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Actually, the conversion process is where 90% of the screwups occur'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then the paper and electronic votes can be tallied locally'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put on the wall'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'results verified, sent up to the next chain in the hierarchy - a distributed system gives the least chance of widespread fraud'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Oh, and I'm sure that there are no checks done to confirm vote counts and such with electronic voting...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's done in software, whoever controls the software controls the vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Whoever transports the paper ballots controls the votes, too...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'What's your point?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't transport them, count them onsite'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Then whoever enters the votes controls the votes.  What's your point?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a shit-ton more people who have to be bent to affect it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'electronic plus paper-printout with a encrypted number so that each vote may be verified in both directions, with an encrypted-coded receipt given to the voter so that the vote may be re-verified online (secretly and or publicly)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'at the national level votes don't count anyway'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'have the U.N. come in and supervise... '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some background:'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xu3VSLsj2g'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4FPuLNjvAc'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I truly think vote fraud is a very handy decoy from actual issues.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'final presidential debate was shit, btw'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'glad i was at work at the time, if i had watched it in my free time i would have been angry at the waste of 90 minutes of my life'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you work night shifts?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then how the FUCK were you at work during the final presidential debate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless you no longer reside in the U.K.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'watched a recording of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, you mean that you watched a recording of the debate while at work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Great work ethic there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'listened to it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't need to see their ugly faces'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'dude, he's playing Aardwolf while at work'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm pretty sure he's not working at 11 P.M.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That said, he's online during the day an awful lot, though.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your imagination is getting the better of you again'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'London is approx five to eight hours later than the USA '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'London is GMT+1 until sunday'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm in the time zone right before Tigernuts (it's midnight over here, 11 P.M. over there). Pretty sure I've seen him online around 15.00-ish.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(on work days)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then is probably a bank holiday or a day off, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you're a conspiracy theorist and believe i'm on the mud when i should be at work'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah... I'm the conspiracy theorist for implying you might have bad work ethic while you're all innocent and fine when you insinuate that Obama is a secret Muslim.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/10/24/syria-crisis-russia-idINDEE89N02X20121024'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing Obama is that can be proven, is a crook'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'oh and an american citizen'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like Donald Trump's hairpiece, Obama is a distraction'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'that can't be proven though'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Donald Trump's hairpiece can't be proven?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hard to see who's the bigger liability, Donald Trump or Joe Biden'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, Trump isn't really a politician, so I think people will be slightly more forgiving of him'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'did you see his latest thing, btw?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, razkin, i wouldn't be so forgiving of Trump, he's a fucking idiot, what did he think he was doing/'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have no idea what he thinks he's doing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney camp should be pretty angry at it, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not defending him, I just think he's less of a liability'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Funny how the Romney camp has yet to decry Trump's antics, last time I checked.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it with rich Americans constant making complete tits of themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what did he do now. (p.s. I know I shouldn't care it just encourages the problem.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's probably a sizeable donor, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the fundamental difference is that Biden is the running mate of Obama, and Trump is just a crazy rich guy who tries to dable in politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://uk.eonline.com/news/356829/donald-trump-s-big-barack-obama-announcement-5-million-to-charity-for-president-s-college-and-passport-records'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you saying Lying Ryan is better than Biden?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's easier for Romney to distance himself from Trump than it is for Obama to distance himself from Biden'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i get the vague impression taht wasn't his big statement was going to be, i heard something rubbish about a possible divorce that never happened'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan went to visit a soup kitchen devoid of any patron (they'd all already left), most of its staff (they'd already left as well) and then staged photos where he pretended to be cleaning pots (that were already clean).'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah. Sounds like a decent man to me!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Yuna, I'm curious as to why everything you say has to be an insult, which is ironic because you get on people for being insulting'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Why has Obama not released everything humanly possible anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't insult YOU, Razkin.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama releasing anything at this stage would be construed as weakness'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why should he cave in to blackmail, Tinada?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know, but when I try and listen to what you say, it's hard to take what you're argueing seriously'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'He should do it to AVOID blackmail'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or just wanton whining (Bitherism).'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It took me some time to understand that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They CAN'T blackmail him. This is "blackmail". Trump is holding 5 million hostage. But he added "to my satisfaction" just to be safe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..by digging up everything about a president/candidate, you ensure that there are no secrets left to blackmail them with'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'either way, Biden's gaffes are more important than Trumps, but I don't think either one really will affect the election in any way'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No matter what Obama releases, it will NEVER be to Trumps satisfaction.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree on that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he's just trying to stir up a bunch of nonsense'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and if you hold something back in that kind of system, careful people will have to consider the possibility that it contains blackmail-worthy information'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's Donald Trump. Just look at his "hair".'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'anything else would be rather naive'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His hair is a menace to society.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'As menaces go, it can not compare to a blackmailed president'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the only thing that's interesting at all when it comes to the birth certificate and whatnot is how much time, energy, and money Obama's team has spent dealing with it, I'd just release it and be done with it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They DID release it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, they kind of released it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure if they had the original extra virgin paper thingy they would have released it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They probably don't have the original paper copy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I don't care about the actual information, it's just amazing how long they held out on doing it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not many people actually keep those. Especially not when they started digitalizing everything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I know, but it was the lack of clarity that always raised my eyebrow'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because it was a ridiculous argument to begin with.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have my brith certificate :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm surprised he released it at all, really.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which is why they should have just released it and moved on'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why cave in to the crazies? And it's not like they accepted it ,anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are some that believe the birther thing was a ruse to cover the fact he's really Frank Marshall Davis's progeny'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in not releasing it, it made things look weird, and became a talking point, which it never hsould have'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's noise, that's what it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'distracts from the fact he has a failed record and has no policies'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'we have guests who are likely to wake me early'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No president has ever been asked to release their birth certificate before.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'oops, mis!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why become the first one just because a buncdh of whiners are making a ruckus?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't think prooving your citizenship is something that shouldn't have to be done, it should just summarily be part of the process'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more police brutality/stupidity: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/10/24/diabetic-cleburne-teen-hit-with-taser-after-crash/'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh well, like Tiger said, it's just noise, and a silly argument from Trump'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more vote fraud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT77qP2Nai8&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't think the proper authorities had already checked that Obama was eligible to run already?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama had ALREADY proven his natural citizenry.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I would hope they have, which means it should have been easy to release'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Proving yourself to whiny crazyheads is not a requirement.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just don't see the reason for not doing it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think the authorities are compenent and trustworthy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So every time some crazies demand the President prove something, he or she is supposed to just cave in and immediately release the information they demand?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, but there are things that he should be required to proove and release'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'like a birth certificate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Razkin makes a valid point, since it's a prequisite of the office, it should be a mandatory part of the process'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would stop stuff like this from happening and being an issue'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'there is no way to stop stupid people from making stupid accusations'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, i need to call up HMRC about some fraud they're committing'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, it's silly, and you're never going to convince the conspiracy theorists, but it should still happen. '
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'you imply he didn't ever release any information?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not implying that, however, it took a long time and a lot of wrangling to do it, which makes it look weird'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'ok so if i say show me your penis or you are a girl you are just going to whip it out'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the birther thing only came about because his story and the 'rebuilt' long certificate appeared at odds ed with things him and his family had said and wrote in previous speeches/biographies'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'honestly, I don't care a whit about it, if they say he's a citizen, I'm more than happy to go along wiht it, I just think a lotcould have been avoided if they had just complied with it, especially since it shouldn't be a big deal'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, phone call, having a hard time typing and talking'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The birther thing came about because of racism.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not a big deal? Give an inch, and they'll ask for a mile'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything is racism to you, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They didn't dig up all of that shit 'til AFTER the Birther thing started.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if it's not racism, it's because of homophobia'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the ONLY "supporting" evidence for them was what his old grand-mother who's probably senile once said in an interview, not in a speech or biography!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the only source of that confusion and you know it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'so what the hell do you guys do for your own politics?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And they didn't dig that up 'til MONTHS after Birtherism came about.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'evening. i see debate is retarded as always. keep up the good work'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The only source of confusion coming from Obama or his family? Yeah it is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'is merica really that interesting or is it more of a train-wreck phenomena?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the absence of any policies to debate, Dagnir, it's ineveitable'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK government floated the idea of restricting child benefit and child tax credits to 2 children per family'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, the wife called, had to answer, it made my last statement kind of vague and weird'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i miss chemosh. he was proper crazy unlike some that are just braindamaged'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Chemosh was openly crazy instead of hiding behind weasel terms and weasel arguments.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Chemosh was just obsessed with WW2'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You should've seen DosseT. He was around for, like, 3 days. He could ALMOST rival Chemosh when it comes to the crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I didn't know him, I've only been around in some form for about a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Razkin, both of them were around in the past month.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, then I missed it'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I always enjoy watching crazy go on'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Al Gore meets Lord Moncton tomorrow, wish I could be a fly on the wall'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's probably bad of me'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eventually, I just learned to ignore 100% of what Chemosh said. He was/is properly crazy. No reasoning with him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Heck, he didn't even seem to notice when people were trying to engage him in debate. Instead, he'd just prattle on, pontificating, oftentimes to a complete desolate Debate channel where he was the only activate member.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah. he spending all morning arguing with himself was a classic'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, not with himself really. it seemed that someone else was talking on the chan but he was the only one who saw it :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and tbh the "obama is evil/muslim/gay/nigerian" thing is weaksauce compared to that'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I stopped paying attention to him after "Hitler didn't really hate the Jews because in this translation of a speech I've seen on Youtube, he didn't even mention the Jews. So the Holocaust is fake!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would they have allowed the Jews to form Israel had they known how much trouble they'd cause in the proceeding 75 years?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm kind of sad I missed all that, although, I probably would eventually have just turned the channel off or ignored him'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't get denying the holocaust. i mean, the people who do that are obviously fans and if the dig hitler that much then why would they diminish his achievements?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '"i'm a nazi and holocaust is a lie" doesn't make any fucking sense. "i'm a nazi and holocaust was awesome" does'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Denying the holocaust is not so much anti-holocaust, so much as it is anti-semite, specifically 'Why must Israel guilt trip?''
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't look good for the stability of the middle east and far east when you now have Muslims attacking Buddhists in western Burma'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Personally I prefer both - the holocaust happened, so did lots of other shit, qq get over it, it shouldn't affect modern policy beyond a simple 'genocide is bad'.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should affect modern opinion'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people need to learn the lessons of history'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Learn the lesson, yes - but Israel exists purely due to holocaust guilt tripping - so much blood to pay for so much blood - fucking insanity'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how long before someone throws the first nuke over there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'How long was it before the USSR nuked the US? O wait.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Cuban missile crisis?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, the obvious solution to all the death the semites suffered in WW2 is to make them cause each other more death and suffering!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'How many nukes in the CMC?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'couldn't resist...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I blame Robert McNamara for the Cuban Missile Crisis'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'me and nuts blame obama for cmc'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US pussyfooting around the Bay of Pigs caused the CMC'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Of course, they took the wrong 'lesson' from that, and thus Vietnam, so there you go'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and had to fake an attack to start viet-nam'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'vietnam was also obama's fault'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I thought it was Bush's fault and just landed in Obama's lap'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no. bush is also obama's fault'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Oooo'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'All are Obama's fault.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'this is why time travel will never work'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'i knew jesus was his fault damn'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still love how Romney's never recanted or apologized for his "Obama is to blame for that auto plant closing.... before he took office!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no. obama killed jesus'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'i dunno i think he is the one who knocked up mary'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1.5 Ford plants closing in the UK announced today'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'then he killed jesus'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can 1.5 plants close?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1 plant closing, a large portion of another plant closing'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: '1 whole plant closes and then half of another?'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jobs shipped to turkey and russia'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only difference between this and the GM bailout, it didn't cost our government billions of dollars to ship those jobs out'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'i thought they all went to india and china'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they go where the labour is cheap and the markets present'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you get what you pay for'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and that's obama's foult'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, our labour isn't cheap but plenty of companies have their plant in my country...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(plants)'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama bailed em, jobs went abroad, Romney will change the tax laws so that the money can be repatriated without tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney himself sets to benefit personally to the tune of $30m'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney campaigns response to add claiming Romney made and is still making lots of money on shipping U.S. jobs to China: "Obama hasn't taken China to the mat yet!". So, really, Romney's not at fault at all! It's all Obama's fault for not stopping Romney!'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like the banks, GM should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'lets be honest they are both less than awesome choices'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'actually, china isn't really even an issue, if you look at the latest stats...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stats on what'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's currency has appreciated, and its surplus has mostly closed'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'its'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still want Hillary to run in 2016, despite what she says to the contrary. She should've won in 2008.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's surplus has closed because the rest of the world is bankrupt and it's own people are spending money on stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'happily, Romney has the pussy vote and Obama's stuck with the old white men.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think Hillary is smart enough to nto want to be President'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's currency is being actively depressed by their government, as eluded to by Romney in one of the debats'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hilary is like some crazed demon from the abyss'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like I said, you should look at the stats rather than believing what romney et al feeds you'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, here we go again.'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just look at the currency charts for the last 5 years...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, capitilism has been slowly creeping into China over the last decade'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reasonably stable'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'up 30% over 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sterling to USD has varied more than that in 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ironically, the tea partiers could get some of what they wish for in a few decades... China is slowly moving out of cheap manufacturing and will eventually try to muscle the US out of high-tech stuff. Then US manufacturing will return... There's that saying about being careful what you wish for...'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not necessarily a bad thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'means people will actually have to start paying a meaningful amount for all the crap electronic trendy shit that they waste their money on'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news headlines: UK, after legal advise, refuses permission for US military to use UK bases abroad as launchpads to attack Iran'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'what are the implications of that'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK refuses to give prisoners the vote, prepares to ignore calls to adopt the "European arrest warrant"'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none, really Gregor'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"minor inconvenience"'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): GraySong Gregor nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ted Turner (founder CNN) makes public apology for saying it was good that more soldiers die of suicide than in combat, doesn't apologise for promoting UN as the world police or for wanting to reduce the population of the planet by 80%'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU reveals new 'unity' poster that includes the USSR sickle emblem'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Spain unemployment hits 25%'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'North Korean army minister 'executed with mortar round' after drinking and carousing during the official mourning period after Kim Jong-Il's death'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(that's what the rest of the world will be like if the UN gets their way)'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'FCC looks to regulate mobile phone text messages'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Regulate in what way?'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regulate the legality of the content'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police arrest 60yr old woman for overrunning her 3 minute time at a city council meeting'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'There are almost a million text messages sent every minute in the US. That seems like quite a job to monitor them all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll use computer software to do it, i think you'll find'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'they probs just store them in a big database and run filters'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like they are planning to do with CCTV so that people aren't needed to watch them all'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'you probably won't get snooped on without a reason'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's largely irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you live in California, make sure to vote YES on proposition 37, btw'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder what Al Gore will do now his global warming gig is up'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'He'll continue his hunt for Manbearpig'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Or take a regular guest spot on 30 Rock.'
T3/r7/2012-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quiet tonight, yuna must have fingerache'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dal is fixated on me - help :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'once you are fixed it's too late. No way to reverse engineer...'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Absentee ballots sent to US military serving in Afghanistan 'destroyed in crash''
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$60,000 in welfare spent per household in poverty'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sounds like a great estimate'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'senate budget committee'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if 60k was spent/household in poverty, there would be no poverty'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'median income is below 60k'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is one of the reason i dislike welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd much prefer the government paid every adult a weekly stipend'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but the trumps and rowlings and buffets are ok'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'a thousand years of whatever the value would be would be a paltry sum'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might be, but pointless excluding a few rich people, you spend more on the administration than you would save'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but those were just egregious (sp?) examples'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would use propaganda to get richer people to use that stipend to make a difference in their community, encourage philanpropy'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I wouldn't need a weekly stipend and I'm no where near as wealthy'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether you need it is largely irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if everyone gets it, it's fair'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the government doesn't generate revenue, if they did that would be 'socialism''
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so whats the point of taxing me, and paying me back'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'more than they already do'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a fair and extremely cost-effective way of paying welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but welfare money doesn't disappear'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '.... eh?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it goes right back into the economy, if you pay people welfare who are doing alright'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they will just save or invest it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't pay welfare for it to go back into the economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you pay welfare so people can maintain an agreed upon minimum standard of livin'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My gov gave us all $900. We all spent it on retail bullshit, retail jumped majorly, right as the Lehman crash hit retail...evened out, and we weathered the GFC better than pretty much any other nation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see that as being in support of the idea, vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the government wouldn't be able to afford giving a stipend'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK government could'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos . o O ( wasn't Robin Hood  from the pre-UK? )
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'psst, Robin Hood isn't real'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he is real just in reverse :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, that's called government'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'stealing from the poor and giving to the rich?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'robin hood many not be real but the idea behind him is part of the UK ethos. Basically, part of any nation's ethos where you find a wealth pyramid with very steep sides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it ain't'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, i live here'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'any country swarmed with the poor will have Robin Hood as a hero, the masses will, anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'your Earl of Outhouse may not like Robin Hood but someone stuck living in the East End may wish he were real.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'giving every adult in the UK a 50quid a week stipend would cost 156bn a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'correct me if I am wrong, but 50 quid a week seems like a pittance'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'heh, you complain that 50 quid free is not better than nothing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what unemployed get. there are other benefits, but this would replace a whole bunch of the existing ones'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm not complaining'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all about making benefits fair, and simple to administer'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm not sure how far 50 quid would stretch in the Uk'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should then have an additional 'rent' allowance for those unable to work for those out of work (limited time) and pensioners, of another 50 quid a week'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'hence the question'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't go far, but neither do wages'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how about if they get a job? trolling for government handouts is a professional sport in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't go far because of the inflated cost of living caused by taxes'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'taxes don't inflate cost of living'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you mean the taxes required to raise the money to hand out the 26 quidp per :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'high wages or cheap money'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if you made it 60 quid a week each side, you'd be looking at around 300bn total cost a year, would recoup most of that through removing the tax-free deductions'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most importantly, 2 parts of welfare instead of 100s'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'almost impossible to defraud'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do much the same with taxes, get rid of a bunch of them, keep just income tax, sales tax, and selected specific duties'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bring that 1000 page tax code down to 20'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make it illegal for businesses to hide profit by paying foreign subsidiaries for services and goods'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'There are some merits to your ideas, but if any tax should go it's the income tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have to tax both sides else it becomes extremely easy to avoid'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i appreciate some people are ideologically opposed to income tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it stands, it would be tough in the transition phase for it to be less than 20%'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for here would need to be 20% sales tax, 20% income tax with a 40% upper rate at >52kgbp'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'capital gains and inheritance should be considered income for tax purposes'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even keeping the current huge duty levels, i fear we'd still not balance the budget'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think people realise quite how screwed the UK is, budgetary wise'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'lucky we have you to tell us'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Need to lower spending. Lower the war budget, maybe?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have a large war budget'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You're in NATO, so you automatically spend at least 5%, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could disband the military and reduce the war budget to 0 and it'd account for only 1/3 of the yearly overspend'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: '"only"? That's huge.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, war isn't a signifant department'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could leave the EU and disband 90% of foreign aid, that would save almost as much'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't know if the UK is diff, but i highly doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'most people in the US hold this misconception that huge amounts are spent on foreign aid'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and it is not true'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '12bn'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you guys spend 12bn on your military?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'foreign aid'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you were equating them earlier'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and 12bn is pocket change for govts'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, EU membership + fioreign aid'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'UK gdp is what 1 something trillion?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '12bn is 9% of the deficit'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You'll never find 1 change that will balance the budget.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In Sweden we solved it by making it illegal to have a budget deficit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I find a populace incensed by a deficit usually fixes a deficit :-P'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defence spending was 39bn'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'We haven't had a deficit since the 90s. We've had bad years, of course, but no budget deficit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've had budget deficits for most of the last 20 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ultimately to solve it you have to take an axe to something, but everyone thinks everything is sacred'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ultimately you'd need to hack into welfare or into health'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or raise taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or stop subsiding large corporations.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personal taxation is as high as it can go'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could do something about corporations, but it would be incompatible with EU membership, and the UN would bitch'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you know the UK is a puppet of world government, so it ain't going to happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'EU is gone anyways - wtf would German or French citizens want to be burdened with fucked up nations?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Dissolved to UN meeting status in 10 years tops.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, if anything should go, by default, it's things that isn't necessary. Military, administration, subsidies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not yet, vakieh, though we can hope'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know they're getting more and more desperate to stay in control. I mean, Nobel peace prize, what a farce'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'What does the nobel peace prize have to do with the EU?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Except that the EU got it....'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and they're the ones desperate to maintain conrtol'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The problem isn't the EU, it's the Euro. Different things.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It is for countries outside the Euro. At least for Sweden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Euro currency is the tool, the EU is the tool wielder'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The issue is incompatible countries attempting to govern universally.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, so we see the removal of sovereignty'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right. But without the Euro, that would not really happen.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as I hread it it is countres within the EU that are the problem ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN is doing much the same thing, but the EU is a fast track version'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ranrr, the Euro is the threat, the policies are the requirement'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The EU is just a trade union, like any other.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU is not a trade union'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I agree, Vakieh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU -started- as a trade union, it's now a european government'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU creates 0% of laws that are passed in member states'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '80%'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those laws are created by an unelected, unaccountable panel called "the european commission"'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe in your country. Not in mine.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The EU needs to be an all or nothing thing. Join it, give up all sovereignty entirely. Petty local agendas fuck it all up for everyone.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'EU is full of backwater states that have yet to fathom the truth that the dollar is god imo - the EU struggles as a whole because of it '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU now dictate financial policy to those in the Euro who are in trouble, and have dictated when people have elections and who to elect'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the dollar is dying'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chinese currency will be the strongest for a while, unless the UN manage to force the SDR on everyone'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'currency - not just the USD'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tiggr, you really think that? Greece want a bail, they get it, because they have a fist on the Euro. Portugal is on its way, Italy is next.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do i think what, tzad?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Spain ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The EU doesn't control, they are a beast unto themself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '? U tell me ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they control'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They created something 'ideal', and now reality is coming around to bite things'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts just got a face full of Seltsimees Dagnir's balls!
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a United States of Europe was always the plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Right, because keeping Greece on is GREAT for the EU.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The plan of who?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the illuminati'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo ppl knew the debts of smaler countries and wanted to roll ppl with cash into the mix -- hence France n Germany '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'France and Germany are the powerhouses, and they will shrug it off quite soon. Britain was always the US's bitch more than it was Europe 1945+, it is under no control there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Greece will go the way of Warsaw, and nobody will here it in the news except to say 'awww', same as DRC or Somalia.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'here = hear'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Syria ? Awww ... ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'We hear about Syria because of its proximity to oil, as part of the greater Arab Spring.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Have you heard the Fascists in Greece are on track for a majority in under 12 months? Golden Dawn will run the place before 2014.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo Syria bucks the arab spring trend - actual functional resistance '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Good?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Did you just say Fascism was good?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fascism isn't good'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but greece taking matters into their own hands is'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol Oh yay - less than half a century after they kick Crowley out the invite his leftovers back .. Greece is fucked '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Own hands? Their populace is tearing itself apart, and you say it is a good thing? You're a piece of fucking work.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then ask yourself WHY they are tearing themselves apart'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because they are poor and desperate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'll give you a hint, it's not because they are inherantly evil of 'fascist''
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Golden Dawn IS inherently evil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '.. france/germany / .. someone needs to annexx Greece imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they weren't locked into the EU, they wouldn't be suffering on the scale that they are now'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither would Spain, or Portugal. Ireland wouldn't have collapsed'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'actually golden dawn in not inherintly evil mate '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Locked? Greece was heading towards superinflation Weimar/Zimbabwe style, and the EU saved their arse at cost to itself.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not interested in whether it's evil or not, it's not what i'd support'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense, vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Simple economics, Tiggr.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not. if they'd inflated their currency over the period of their Euro membership, it would not have been hyperinflation'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Greece has minimal resources, and heavy imports. They would be fucked without a bailout.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a gross oversimplification'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And yet the point remains'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is why I say Greece should do well with being annexxed - clean out the criminal/ploitical dirt imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically the EU meant that they went down the hole but had no control over it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same with Ireland, Portugal, Spain'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Greece has high debt, low resources, both natural and capital, and is functionally depended on imports. They were a part of the global community with or without the EU, and the GFC meant they never had any control, seperate currency or not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'pigs - EU detractors - Portugal Italy - greece - spain '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then let them sort it out'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Right, by giving them a loan so the population doesn't all fucking die. Or does 'sort it out' include letting poor people starve count for you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they wouldn't starve'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They were and are.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely to starve now'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were starving when they joined the EU?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sovlent green falback Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'When the GFC hit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Greece has considerable resources'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They truly don't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tourism .. '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Olive oil, retsina :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Greek agriculture is STILL suffering from millenia of overuse of land for olives and grapes. The land died, killing classical Greece, and it has not recovered enough to liberate the Greeks from food imports, especially the island portions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all they have to do is what the Jews did to their land, which was of much worse quality. They let it rest.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That is what they should have done, but they didn't Anaristos - and that level of overuse dropped yields to the point they are stuck STILL overworking the land just for subsistence farming.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'primary production only breaks even in a transparent economy - Greece is it's own worst enemy - is why I say annexx it - go through it like a dose of salts imo'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You would be a great consultant for large companies that need to cut down. No feelings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My great grandfather's family lived on one of the Greek isles, he came out here (Au) as the population on the island could not be supported by the land.  I currently own and have read over 200 letters between the parents and sisters he left behind and himself, which paint the picture in which all but 1 of them starve to death. Later studies on the land today indicate it is par for the course for Greece even today, and even heavy fertilization cannot fix the poor mineral content of the soil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I believe the y make that clear on job adds .. " must be willing to make hard choices" sociopaths unite !'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the western world is like that'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why the land is chemically dependant'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why people are so unhealthy'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'NO tigernuts. It is specific to Greece and parts of Italy, as olives and grapes are so totally detrimental to the soil. Learn what you are on about before you hit that enter key.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's because the world is overpopulated.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem specific to olives and grapes is specific to greece, but generally mineral depletion is a wester world problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hence the resource wars '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Modern farming methods cause overpopulation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always used to be fields would be left fallow 1 year in 4.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Again, no, it isn't. We are chemically dependent because of our demand for fresh to excess, and the Western refusal to eat 'slightly bad' food.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chemical fertilisers have nothing to do with freshness'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They have to do with speed of growth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'My genes, not my location, tells me what food is healthy for me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Grow quick, harvest quicker, because your crops are only good for a week.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'getting to the supply of fruit n veg - the duuoploly in Oz has a lot to answwer for imo '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crops grow at the rate they grow, they will crossbreed to get faster strains, but a season is a season'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can optimise the growing process with chemicals, you can't forec it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Bullshit. Fertile land grows bigger fruit and veg quicker. More tonnage is more sales.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they produce better yields'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Pretty much everything we grow has been heavily modified to grow bigger and faster.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they dont' grow faster'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Wheat is the worst of them, but not the only.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You can watch the rate of growth in a sapling in fertile soil vs one in barren. Guaranteed 1 will grow faster.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an optimisation issue'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if ur only sales are through  one of 2 monsters - ur fucked anyway - they set the price '
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Fertile soil means the crops grow higher, bigger, heavier, in a shorter time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chemicals won't allow you to grow summer crops in the winter, nor will they change the amount of daylight, thus they won't affect the flowering cycle'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basic biology'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Photosynthesis requires more than just sunlight. Using faster growing crops allows you to grow multiple harvests a season, or stagger your growth for harvest at different times during the season.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're on the equator, maybe'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You still won't grow a mango in winter, but grow it in better soil, and it will grow bigger faster.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and for certain crops'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like his big tropical storm is coming at the right time for Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You can decrease growth with less nutrients or water, but sunlight is the main limiting factor. You cannot increase beyond the limit of sunlight with nutrients, how hard you try.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the tropical storm might be helpful, but he pretty has it in the bag already'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'provided your bag has holes in it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'nothing is a sure thing, but he is definitely leading'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from all the polls i've seen, the electoral college is too close to call and the popular vote has him 4 points behind'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if by too close to call, you mean pretty much a lock than yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'popular vote is irrelevant, but there is 0% chance he is behind by 4 pts'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.gallup.com/poll/157817/election-2012-likely-voters-trial-heat-obama-romney.aspx'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'gallup/rasmussen seem to be outliers'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately polls are always inherently biased, no way to know for sure until the results come in'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only place Obama has a clear lead is 'abroad''
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Studies prove me wrong? Well shit, they must be baised.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'biased*'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are biased, vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he has a statiscally significant lead in Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '49 -47 is significant?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'cherry picking single polls is not informative'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you look at a few his lead is anywhere from 0-5 percent'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '5 isn't significant'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Ohio isn't a flyover state'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '5%= many thousands of voters'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's within the margins of error, Twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same is true where Romney is showing 5 point leads'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'my web browser seems to not be working even though I am connected to aard, strange'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama has multiple routes to 270 EC'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps your web access is being blocked by your government'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'regardless, Romney has to win a lot of the bg states'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it looks like he'll carry florida'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and in most polls he is behind in the majority of them'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'except in this election florida isn't a tipping point state'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he can carry florida and VA and still lose'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'How does someone who actually believes God is an alien from Kobol get this close to leading a country with nuclear weapons?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like he'll carry florida, virginia, carolina'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seriously doubt he'll get michigan'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I would speculate a guess, but it would probably stop the discussion'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I would bet 100tps romney doesn't carry michigan'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '30 he doesn't carry ohio'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'seems to be losing Iowa, Wisconsin, PA'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it might depend on Pennsylvania'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I didn't check the website you linked because of internet difficulties, but they are incentivised to show a horserace'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'when it really isn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is a 2-1 lead with Penalty time remaining'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'penn looks like it'll go obama, NC looks like it'll go romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'florida appears to be consistently romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'virginia looks consistenyly romney, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'WI, MI, NE all look like Obama to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CO, IO, NH, OH all look like the true tossups'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which according to my created map has 243 Obama, 252 Romney with 43 to declare'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means Romney would have to get ohio or Wisconsin + another to win, which is unlikely'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so maybe the bag isn't so full of holes :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you check out 538 Blog by Nate Silver, his model has it at 70% chance of O reelection'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's far from 'in the bag''
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he was pretty accurate in 08 10'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '70/30 doesn't sound unreasonable, but that's not 'in the bag''
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it may be that obama has to thank the libertarians'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'for VA?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for any close-race where romney will lose votes to them'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why wouldn't they steal votes from Obama as well?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gary Johnson will take more votes from Romney than from Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fare more overlap with Republicans than Democrats'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'on economic issues'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'less on social issues'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? on constitutional issues'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reca'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the constitution besides just being a piece of paper is up for interpretation'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what all liberal nutjobs say, Twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's what history says TN'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is why people need to be vigilant to protect it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: '"facts have a liberal bias"'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also the constitution is not infallible'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the constitution stands in the way of certain democrat ideals, so over time they will seek to undermine it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could never just outright overturn it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do you think defining corporations as people undermines the constitution?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether it's people, central government, or corporations undermining the constitution isn't terribly relevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'unlimited anymonous political contributions?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but that was a repub wet dream not a democrat one'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'kinda contradicts your point'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what contradicts my point?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the founding fathers warned against policital parties period, which contradicts your point'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm sure we'll continue this some other time, but I gotta run'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jeep looking to move all production from USA to China, despite bailout'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'free market at its best'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'croney capitalism at it's best'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's what i said'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If production is cheaper in X, you are retarded if you don't produce in X'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, so therefore tax payers must be raped in order to pay producer A to move production to X'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The fix is to tax imports as needed - but of course, done incorrectly that is known as protectionism, and fucks up the whole world.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole bailout fiasco, whether banks or car companies, is deserving of a golf clap and a banana'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Oh for fuck's sake.  Even pet food companies are jumping on the glooten-free bandwagon.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Glooten and awwwwwtizum, the two biggest menaces in today's society.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhuli: 'Making triggers illegal would make for an interesting Aardwolf...'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhuli: 'Including scripts...'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the estimated recoverable oil at the eagle ford shale in south texas has been doubled to 4.6 billion barrels.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which is about 30 years of production at current production rates.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'new recoverable reserves in the giant permian basin fields of west texas have also extended the lifetime of those fields by almost 50 years.  We are drowning in new oil thanks to new drilling techniques that have become cost affective thanks to high oil prices.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a guy lost 202 lbs eating only fresh juice from vegetables and fruit, in 10 months.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'good for him!'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Drakoth: 'what rizgoth is leaving out is that the guy weighted 202 lbs 10 months ago... :\'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mokg: 'if you've seen the show I used to be fat(or something like this) people lose 100 lbs in 3 months all the time on it'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'if they healthier is better.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'losing weight that rapidly is rarely healthy'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'in 10 months is ok i think.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not that much, no'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'How..did he get enough protein from fresh fruit and juice to survive more than 2 months?'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'he didnt'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i mean he had enough i sup'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you don't have to have protein to survive, just to be healthy ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers at you intently. 
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but you end up getting Kwashior (sp_'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Your body needs to have a certain protein intake or you won't be able to repair your muscles, and some kilos before you run out of muscle, you die.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Kwashiorkor'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nah, you won't run out of muscles, they just won't be as healthy as they should be'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You need at least 5-10 grams of protein each day....the body is quite good at recycling protein, but even the best recycler needs new material.'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'new protein can come from non-protein intake, it's just not efficient'
T3/r7/2012-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I know a guy who runs stairway races....and he only eats fruits and veggies, legumes and nuts.....and he is stronger than I am...but he makes sure to eat a wide variety of of those 4 food types to make sure he gets at least 5 to 10 grams of protein each day to help with rebuilding.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NDAA, how do you deal with a problem like illegal counterintelligence programs like COINTELPRO? Easy, make them legal'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'get rid of Hoover!'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but wait... ok, that's done already :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything worth it here ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, nice headline: MSNBC Now actively telling viewers how to vote on gay marriage'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The big question is: Should there even be a vote? Why should government be involved in marriage at all?'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it shouldn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the evils of big intrusive governments'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'xmas is nearly a year away, so Rod Stewart has released an xmas album'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Gallup is really taking offence to Obama, aren't they?'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'A-fence?'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i really hope the anti-paradigm candidates can make a good showing'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'last thing America needs is people voting for 'the lesser of two evils''
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Drone-murders of Americans "Totally right, totally constitutional": Homeland security chairperson'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Madonna booed after touting Obama during Concert.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woman is a bloody menace'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Vote Obama or the polar bears will die!'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Vote Romney if you want good energy jobs!'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my quote was a news headline about a vomit-worthy campaign ad exploiting children put out in support of the obama camp'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or vote Obama if you want (heavily subsidized) "green" energy jobs?'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The eagle ford shale in Texas alone is expected to create about 75,000 new jobs in the oil field by 2021....and Texas has 8 shale oil deposits that are known right now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't use those, Rizgoth'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You also can't vote, unless you vote for Obama.....they will even allow the dead to vote. :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how can you expect government to enslave the nation with authoritarian rules and energy rationing if they bring a ton of cheap energy onto the market?'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a vast surplus of oil in some parts of the US has caused the avg price of oil from Canada and the US to be $15 less per barrel compared to north sea oil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we wouldn't notice over here, 82% of the cost of petrol is tax'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You guys need to tax those illegal aliens instead of petrol so much.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what illegal aliens?'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU, dear boy, we have no border controls'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You are on an island....build some damn ramparts like you did hundreds of years ago!'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an issue of capability, we're a member of the EU, we cannot prevent other EU members coming here'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am talking the illegals from africa.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't get so many of those'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they let them in anyway because they're claiming asylum'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'let em claim asylum in greece.'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they need asylum to flee the wars they started so that they can claim welfare and rape teenagers here instead'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you realise it's all balls'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UN asylum laws that most of the world uses dictate the asylum seeker stop and present themselves at the first safe country'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which would mean unless you're fleeing from Ireland, France, Norway or Iceland, the UK most definitely is -not- the first safe country'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I sometimes miss the iron curtain.....:p'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jormungard: 'hi'
T3/r7/2012-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jormungard: 'lawl'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'U.S. oil output is surging so fast that the United States will soon overtake Saudi Arabia as the worlds biggest producer. Driven by high prices and new drilling methods, U.S. production of crude and other liquid hydrocarbons is on track to rise 7 percent this year to an average of 10.9 million barrels per day. This will be the fourth straight year of crude increases and the biggest single-year gain since 1951.'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US uses 18.7 million barrels of oil per day, down from 20.6 million in 2005.'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how are people faring with your east cost rainstorms?'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'coast*'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Depart of Defence caught memory-holing it's own press releases'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gangs plan hurricane looting spree via twitter'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama administration using Frankestorm media coverage to hide release of unclassified Benghazi cables that shew they knew of terror attack threats for over a year'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there were threats against americans in a muslim country? le gasp'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well obviously, but this was specifically this terrorist cell, and this specific target'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm glad to hear that the terrorist are letting people know before they strike'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's often intelligence of that sort'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was for 9/11, too'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it amazes me how people won't evacute during events like these really bad hurricanes'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just can't wrap my head around that, even when they explain themselves'
T3/r7/2012-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'especially the ones closest to the ocean, who don't seem to understand storm surge.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't know why they're bellyaching about 16 people getting killed by this storm.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'OH MY GOD, 16, BIG DEAL.  How many get killed in southeast Asia when a hurricane (cyclone?  typooon?  same damn thing) hits?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karkaroth: 'the fewer of us the better '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nature  is Goddess .. drown the Fn ppl that are unable through simple functionality that would survive this ? '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Darwinism ... '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'actually can say Darwinism - but economic eugenics ... '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'damn, voting next Tuesday'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'already 4 years gone'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'unless your a felon'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Uh... isn't it next Wednesday?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'true'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karkaroth: 'howd he do anyways I dont follow the news '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, apparently it's November 6th, not 7th.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i don'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i dont know who will win this one'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anyway, you can vote if you're a felon as long as you have already served your sentence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Tuesday, wednesday if you like the other guy :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'is it against the law to vote if your a felon?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i thought as a felon you couldnt vote ever again'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, again, not if you've already served your sentence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karkaroth: 'i just mean overall howd the current prez do I know he had alot to tackle when he signed on '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You cannot vote as a felon while serving your sentence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I thought some felons couldn't vote even after they are out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'ok so is it against the law to vote while serving your sentance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not illegal per se, I believe. You just can't vote. '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'also you are wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'it is decided at the state level'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As of 2011, only two states, Kentucky and Virginia, continue to impose a lifelong denial of the right to vote to all citizens with a felony record'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'TWO states impose lifelong bans on voting for felons. So I'm SORRY if I didn't mention them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'and others still impose life long voting revocation depending on the crime'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'also in a Futurama episode bender can't vote because he is a felon.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'state or federal voting'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He was serving his sentence/had not yet served his sentence, I believe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so if you had to guess, who do you think is going to win?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'people with money'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In 48 states out of 50 states, your voting rights are restored after you serve your sentence or some length of time afterwards.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'depending on the crime'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama. Because there are enough non-idiots in the U.S. to see through Romney's lies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, Hurricane Sandy will probably boost Obama's approval ratings.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'who will lead us to World War 3?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Chris Christie is going around singing Obama's praises to anyone who will hear him. He went on FOX NEWS and praised Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'is it true that to make money you have to spend moeny?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'again people with money'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Chris Christie is a Republican, by the way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'mass will go blue'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'ya i thought that was funny too yuna. specially since republicans wanted him to run for president '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Massachusetts, Romney's own home state, is 70% for Obama, I believe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'it has since 1992 anyway and before 1981 i think'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which isn't surprising seeing as how Mitt Romney served as Governor running on pretty much the same platform as Obama is running now, yet he's running for President on a platform that's anathema to his platform as Massachusetts governor. It's pretty bad when your OWN state is voting 70% against you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Christie called people who wouldn't evacuate for the hurricane idiots.  It was funny and correct, but maybe not good politics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Thank goodness Romney will be out of a job in politics, at least temporarily, once he loses. I doubt Massachusetts will be in a hurry to re-elect him to any position of public office after this election, so he's a goner.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Chris Christie just stopped giving a shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He started just telling the honest truth and stopped caring about party politics.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'and he cited that as a reason not to run for president, he didn't want to deal with the republicans in the primary'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Even though he vetoed a bill that would've legalized same-sex marriage, I find myself liking him the more I read about him (besides that veto thing).'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He should've run for President, if only to make Romney look like the general asshat that he is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Christie vs. Romney, even if Christie would've lost, he would've exposed Romney for his newfound fundamentalism by simply existing as a sane option.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Chris Christie a Christian '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His Wikipedia page makes no mention of it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No wait, Roman Catholic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The article itself doesn't mention "Christian" or "Catholic", though. Just that he's a Roman Catholic.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a Catholic Christian Chris Christie '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'His Wiki page also seems to imply that Romney was seriously considering him as a running mate, but Christie turned him down because he'd have to quit his job as Governor due to some random laws and Christie  thought their chances to win would be low.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'BURN!'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so Sandy turned out to be somewhat of an overhyped damp squib'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what??'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well not really the frankenstorm it was being branded, just a large tropical storm, a "major weather event", granted, but hardly the major disaster it was being advertised as'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for which i guess we should all be thankful'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I'm watching the news and I disagree.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'It wasn't as strong a few hundred miles inland as they predicted, but the coast got hit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Japanese tsunami was a moderate disaster, Chinese earthquakes were a moderate disaster, the boxing day tsunami was a moderate disaster. The Haiti earthquake was a proper disaster, this was chicken-feed in comparison to any of those'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be thankful, you guys got off lightly, really'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the carribean gets this year in year out'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Obama is mobilising all the immigrants to vote for him'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'sounds scary. i hope the pass more voter suppression laws'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given all the immigration, sounds like a calculated plan to me'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'romney should get some more, darker spray-tan'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'texas will never go blue again unless something drastic happens'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'romney is making claims that chrylser is going to make jeeps in china.  where chryslers ceo said is wasn't true romney said the ceo didn't disagree with romney's facts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'OOPS'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'tigernuts, how much control does gov't have in the UK compared to the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'is it bad?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'control over what, ramp?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'They don't know if they're going to China or Italy, Malkar'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they're going'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'is healthcare bankrupting the UK'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Ramp'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'why?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'not according to the ceo.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'poor people that dont want to work ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poor people already are working'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'how is healthcre so fucking expensive though. i think it's bullshit that they can put a price on life like that'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthcare here, specifically, is a beurocratic mess that's been taken over by jobsworth beurocrats and corporate interests'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i belviein paying for medical costs but not to the point where you work for nothing the rest of your life'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nuts, even so it's still better than in the states ;)'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on what's wrong with you and what your personal circumstances are'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'rush limbaugh doienst see what the big deal about payign 30k out of his pocket for medical bills '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i think as long as you are making some form of payment and making good on your debt then you shouldnt be fucked over on your credit and shit like that'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our health service costs around 1/4 of gdp'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'damn'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lol. right'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the big problem is they can charge you 30K ,but if you have insurance the insurance company only pays 8k, it should be much closer to one price.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'excluding the elderly care component'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'equiv. to our medicare i assume'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, including the elderly care component'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not gdp, total tax take'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's late'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'gov't and private insurance together woudl work'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'but see there is no middle ground in politics'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have an answer for you, ramp, i can tell you our system is bust and is going down the tube'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'how much do you pay in taxes out of yuor paycheck?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally, or as a country?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'personally'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'average person... what would they pay'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'direct taxation on the country average is around 43%, though that goes down as you go up or down the income scale'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'we have gov't insurance that pays for treatment in private and national hospitals'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, the total tax take rockets up as you go down the income scale because msot of the taxes on poor people aren't income-linked'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'if i made 68k GBP a year.. how much of that would i see assuming no deductions'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, for my personal circumstances, i pay around 60% tax overall'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'social tax is 33% of your gross salary and is paid by the employer. doesn't come out of your paycheck'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so 60%. does that include property taxes, vehicle tax, etc...'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'ok'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '68K would be an executive level job here'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'vat tax seperate i assume since that is based on what you buy'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'biggest crippler is fuel duty and vat'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i was thinking 68k USD, sorry'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so thats porb like 33k GBP?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, 40k'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'is that good if you are single and no kids?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't live in london, yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'well yea.. same with here. 68k in New York City, LA, chicago, etc.. would not be a lot'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on 40k a year you'd lose 6k in income tax, about another 4-8k in national ponzi scheme tax '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure the don't have such an obvious name for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's what it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'americans would call it social security, here it is paid by the employer and employee, but doesn't actually benefit you any'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an accurate name for it (and has been admitted by the chancellor) is 'payroll tax''
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which, if you're trying to encourage people to get or create jobs, is a stupid idea'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'explain how the "national ponzi scheme" is similar to a ponzi scheme, or admit that was a slander against the UK government'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the national ponzi scheme was set up after WW2 as a means of funding pensions and certain work-protection benefits. it was called the "National Insurance"'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you don't fund your funny plans, they end up as demographic type pyramid games'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, the numbers on it only worked if you had 100% employment and the average life expentancy stayed the same'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so essentially the people paying in now are paying for the people who have retired'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which only works provided the working population expands at an ever greater rate'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a ponzi scheme'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any scheme which pays out using the pay-ins of the next layer is a ponzi scheme, that is the definition of a ponzi scheme'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it can also work in a demographically stable society, or if you keep adjusting retirement age upwards, so the ratio between workers and retired people stays at some sensible figure'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they didn't touch it for 60 years, now it's near collapse, hence the sudden upsurge in retirement age'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, they're toying with the idea of scrapping it'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and.... i'd agree with that, stupid idea'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also stupidly expensive to administer'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'sdo they want to scrap the legal agreement to the majority of the populace but not scrap the legal agreements to the parasitic rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what that means'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yes you do but you are greedy and selfish'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what it's in reference to, zade'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could solve a lot of the corporate sponging by making it illegal to pay a foreign subsidiary for goods or services'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at least making such a transaction illegal if a profit was made on it, or tax such transactions in some way'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd break up the NHS and hand control of it to local goverment'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much in the same way Romney wants to hand medicaid/medicare (whichever) to state level'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the reasons that many of the rich are rich is that they were given preferential treatment, and given the ownership of resources at an extremely cheap price, and given financial privileges and financial control at an extremely cheap price, etcetera, all the while depending upomn and riding upon the (underpaid) contributions and work of the majority of the populace as a whole'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, zade, and that's why whoever wins the US election, you'll get a president that will continue the same racket'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most important thing you need, is states rights so that you can arm up and say no to that lot'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local NHS + a 'deductable' for different treatment/surgery types might be the only affordable option'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to begin to know how to reform the NHS, perhaps first know where the monies paid into the NHS are going: mainly to whom and how much, and are those (overrich) recipients are expendable and or replaceable by something far cheaper'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only certainties is that a huge amount is spent on management structures, target chasing, and ngo's'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the profitable bits of the service have already been exploited/taken over by big pharma/health corporations'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol, ngo's? really'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regional health trusts and hospitals are literally going bankrupt as we speak'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the last government built a load of new hospitals using a private-finance initiative, which is like getting the private sector to build the hospital, but it costing 10x the normal cost, spread over 30 years, after which you still won't own the hospital'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's crippling them'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i guess that's what happens when you let a bunch of liberal lefties get in charge'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what percentage of the NHS monies are going to "management" and "profits" "bonuses" and "huge salaries" by the big corporate groups'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not an accountant, zade, i couldn't tell you'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'If I had to guess I would say that's where it is going'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but I think NGO's are just as likely :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there were inquests launched when they found that they were scamming supplies, like charging $100 for a ring binder, $50 for a pen etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$2500 to change a light bulb'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and in the uk, much like the USA, hospital malpractice, hospital acquired infections, prescription drug misuse, combined is the leading cause of death in both countries'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much is going to malpractice insurance per doctor compared to the cost of training a new doctor'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go ask the insurance company'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most general pracititioners here (family doctors equiv?) are incompetent here'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have some very good specialists'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you want to repair and of fix your NHS. then a lot of that and similar information is likely required'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not proposing to repair it at all'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't believe for a second it -can- be fixed or repaired'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the general practitioners are generally incompetent, then the education system teaching and training those doctors is generally incompetent'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'may be a religious or ethnic thing -- like where every (jewish) mother wants her son to be a doctor, even if the son is mentally unable to be a competent doctor'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those incompetent doctors are a result of something wrong with the system'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Pencilneck (incompetent doctor) geeks are a dime-a-dozen -- gotta stop whoever's handing out those dimes" -- Fred Blassie'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'all contracts are driven by greed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not all'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hunt for unlimited resources=greed >contracts'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'How about, not all greed is bad?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Lets examine the premise before tackling the contention'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '"bad" is not the issue here'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"all greed is potentially bad"'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'thats another topic'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"that's another topic" is also another topic'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal growls.
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"greed" is an abstract moral observation, comprehended by some nonhuman animals'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'greed can be completely isolated. no moral issues then.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'like: "greed" is more of something you already have. quite close'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'just wanting more of that'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Debate channel exists for a reason.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'not for a good one'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'This is the Yuna disagrees with you channel'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'For you to troll on about stupid shit?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Oh, sorry, are you going to report that and lie to imms and say I'm attacking your mother?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'he already did'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'starling attacks anyone's mom so its not very personal'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Bob Dylan is the greatest musician of all time'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'No one else has, for such a long period of time, released such great, personal, moving, intense, poignant, relevant, music. Ever.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'And...Dylan wins by default'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'Hit and run debate - From my FB:  "I never realized how much greed and jealousy there was in this county until I heard all these campaigns/advertising/interview clips/news reports/etc aginst Romney because he is rich (and Obama isn't? :P).  But really now?  We don't want a wealthy president or something?  Give me a break!  If he is not a millionaire businessman, he doesn't even qualify to be considered as President, imo.  The USA is basically the largest, most influential business venture in all the world.  We need a master biz tycoon.  Don't hate the rich!!! "'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you don't want a callous self-serving liar as a President'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah people don't want to vote for Romney because he is rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Occam's Razor and all'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Romney became rich as a self-serving callous opportunist -- remoniscent of a psychopathic sociopath without a conscience'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(reminiscent)'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'psychopaths without a conscience are more likely to "lie and pass" a polygraph -- "windmill" Mitt Romney states differing contrary opinions to different audiences (with an emotionless face)  -- and fits that profile of a psychopath without a conscience'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'for the amount of grief Kerry took for being a "flip flopper", you would think Romney would be having more trouble'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The truth is, Obama has fucked up the economy even more than it was before. So flip flopping and psychopath, etc. don't mean jack shit to people who want a job and want to put food on the table. Next week, Romney is going to win, because of just that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack attempted to be bipartisan and the republcans took advantage of that to screw the USa economy'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, I'm sure that's true when the Democrats had a near super-majority in both houses and with just convincing one or two liberal Republicans like Olympia Snow, they could have passed anything they wanted. Get with it: they had their chance, and their idea didn't work. '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'just curious, November. If the mittens get elected and he doesn't live up to his promises, would you suicide?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Of course not, suicide is a mortal sin.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its funny how an also ran who couldn't even get a VP nod is going to save the country'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You can pick a fight with a car and it isn't suicide, btw'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, and you know that its better than an even chance that you would have to suicide if you made that commitment. If you thought that it would be a sure bet that he would honor his commitments you wouldn't hesitate to make a bet you couldn't lose.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Politicians don't honor most of their commitments. No matter what side they're on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'Sad truth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'If people wanted an honest prez, they would have voted for Ron Paul.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If a politician doesn't honor his commitment, its just a *yawn* moment, not time to commit suicide.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in other words, the mittens as just as slick as anyone who has ever run for office, since none of them have kept their promises. So, arguing that he will do this and that is an empty exercise. The best we can hope is that if he gets elected he doesn't screw it up as bad as the bush did. '
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'then why do you defend him, if you know he's a liar, then you should not protect him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, we won't know if he can't honor his commitments unless we vote him in.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh, and like Obama isn't a liar?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You think he's the epitome of honesty and truth?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, that's a cop out and you know it. He doesn't say "I will try" he says "I will do" which is a lie.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Failing to keep a campaign promise because the opposition Filibusters your every move isn't being a liar.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's a stark difference between failing to live up to a promise and promising something you never intend to make good on.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'bull taco. All you are saying that as soon as a candidate scurries into office he starts looking for excuses why he sells out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so why make the promises, then? You are currying votes with those promises, which means you are lying in order to get elected.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Failing to keep campaign promises when he had a near-super majority and needed to convince 2 people means you're a terrible leader or your ideas suck. Just like how the house recently unanimously voted against Obama's budget, including all Democrats. This guy couldn't lead a pack of boyscouts accross a parking lot without getting them lost.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have no clue how the U.S. political system works if you cannot understand how the Republicans blocked most of Obama's attempts to keep his campaign promises.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well November what about the 2010 elections?'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'jobs jobs jobs'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Republicans openly stated that they'd block every single bill Obama put forth on principle. 32 Republicans voted no on a bill that protected U.S. government workers who were raped overseas!'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The 2010 elections were mostly against Obamacare.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'forget about Obama. He has a record to stand on and he can be voted in or out on that record. The mittens doesn't have that, so we can only listen to his claims and now you are saying that it is ok for him to lie to the voters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well he is obviously lying because he is on both sides of almost all issues'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mittens is just saying stuff at this point... whatever he thinks will win him votes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its never OK to lie to people. But, truth be told, all politicians do this - so you either don't vote or you just pick whomever you think will do better.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'Of course Romney has a record.  It's such a good record Obama keeps saying how the rest of America needs to become like MA. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He'll say something only to contradict himself days later. Sometimes he'll say something, only to have his own campaign manager contradict him within hours.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you are saying that you don't believe the mittens, but you will vote for him because you like his lies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which is why MA is overwhelmingly voting for Rom... nvm'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and 4 years for now, if he wins and is tries to be re-elected, you will vote for the next unknown because you will like his lies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, and Obama will go on talk shows and make light of dead US Marines, marines which he FAILED to provide support for when they called out for it for hour after hour. That's so dispicable that I honestly think its an impeachable offense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is a canard'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he never made fun of anyone'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You desperately cling to Benghazi because it's all you have.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There was NO WAY for Obama to prevent that attack short of simply flying every single U.S. citizen out of Benghazi and keep them out of Benghazi for the rest of our days.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you know, you are full of crap, no one makes light of dead soldiers. Those soldiers would not have been there if Bush had not sent them, and you probably voted to re-elect him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You think heightened security would've accomplished anything? It would've just given the terrorists more targets.'
T3/r7/2012-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what terrorists?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't know crap about terrorism.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's not play the "It wasn't terrorists" game.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'i've never understood the blustery outrage,for the sake of argument so what if he didn't call it a terrorist attack'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you are referring to 9/11. It was a terrorist act, the question is who were the terrorists. The even more important question is why did they suddenly stop terrorizing.  If the US were really under terrorist attack you would become shitless every time you left your house. Ask the people who live under terrorism, they will tell you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Right is desperate. I thought we've established this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm referring to the Beghazi attack, Anaristos.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'was that in the US?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it was in BENGHAZI.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama has failed at every level: forcing healthcare on people who dont want it, raising taxes on the middle class when he promised not to, being a polarizing figure deamonizing his opposition instead of working with them, spending 6 trillion dollars in deficit and not having much economic growth to show for it. Lets face it, he's been a pretty poor President.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so they are under terrorist attacks, not the US.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't think you're comprehending what the fuck I'm saying. I'm calling bullshit on November for criticizing Obama for that attack!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And not once did I claim that it was on U.S. soil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'as a member of the middle class... my taxes did not go up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or that the U.S. is living under constant terrorist attacks or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lets reject everything this guy wants to do (even if it is our idea) then call him the most polarizing figure ever'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Benghazi, the American consolate is American soil.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'do you not wonder why 2 mercs died in that attack? Do you think that that was coincidence?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what were 2 use mercenaries doing there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I already have healthcare, but if I worked a job that didn't offer it, I'd want it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Being a polarizing figure demonizing his opposition?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's pretty rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'US*'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'Obama's vetoed less bills than any of his predecessors in over 100 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he probably has the record for filibusters against as well'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the fact that you have the gall to criticize Obama for not trying to work with the opposition when the Republicans set RECORDS for record-breaking numbers of filibusters during Obama's 1st term means you're either willfully blind, a troll or just downright stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'congress has stalemated any efforts he's made to change the economy, but it is what it is based on bush tax cuts and bush wars, with no momentum to shift it elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You mean to tell me that its not Obama's failure that he couldn't convince one or two people who disagreed with him to go in on a bill?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I've got my own reasons to support 3rd parties over Obama, but 100% of the rhetoric the right throws at him is complete, and utter, BS'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's the failure of the leadership.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not to mention the Republican party's promise to make him a 1-term president BEFORE HE WAS EVEN INAGUARATED and their constant refusal to compromise with the Democrats. Again, 32 Republican Senators voted NO on a bill that provided help for government workers stationed overseas after they'd been raped.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the FUCK does that on PRINCIPLE?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republicans are obviously racists in their dislike of a nonwhite President, with those record-numbers of filibusters'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Republican Party bosses instructed their minions to never compromise with Obama. It's not his fault.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, go peddle your bullshit elsewhere. Clearly, we're not stupid enough to fall for it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That was a promise made by one person, who by the way wasn't really in power to stop anything. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I always put this in front of the right wing claims that Obama has failed: name one, ONE, bill he should have passed, that he instead vetoed, that would have changed the course of the US?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If you can't convince one or two people from the other side to vote for you, you really are not a compromising figure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't even know what a fucking filibuster is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Republicans wouldn't even let Obama's bills reach the floor for a vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How DARE you blame Obama for the Republican Party's Party of No antics? It's HIS fault that they decided to play politics while the nation was in shambles? Really?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republican party aids abets supports the rape of overseas government workers'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '32 Republican Senators voted NO on protections to government workers stationed overseas who were raped. You CANNOT defend that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'Yuna you keep on throwing that out there: what else was on the bill?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm quite sure that alone would have had unanimous support'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And you can't defend the calls of marines who pleaded for help for seven hours, to which Obama said no to as he watched with a live feed as they died.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It was a standalone bill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I must amend myself. 30 Republican Senators, not 32.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'that's the problem with congress though, they burden everything down to the point there's something everyone disagrees with a little, partisan politics come into play, and the bill fails'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'oh?  link?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well this isn't a vote on 30 GOP senators in question, its on Obama and his leadership or lack there of.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm trying to find a transcript of the bill as we speak.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And what matters to the people of this country: the economy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just shut up November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Anyone who calls someone else a name in a debate, has lost that debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're actually causing me to lose even more faith than I've already lost in humanity.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'November: he put forward a plan.  The Republicans rejected it while failing to bring him one of their own that would pass congress'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Shut up" is a name now?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, but FUCKTARD is .. which you called me repeatedly four weeks ago.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Goddamn Tod Akin and Mourdock! They're making it really hard to Google the issue of Republicans voting no against rape-protection bills!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes? How is that relevant TODAY?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I agree there was a failure of leadership, but you're looking at the wrong branch of government if you think it's Obama's fault a bill won't make it through congress'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Because it was on the same subject, the election.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look, I admit fully that politicians in this country don't serve the people all that well. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, how is it relevant today? Also, you used the same bullshit arguments then as you're using now and I'm out of patience for stupidity. I'll just openly call people fucktards when they're behaving like fucktards.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But people, we have to start compromising more than just alienating two sides to a coin.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republican party voted against the the bill to protect raped overseas government workers -- "That's so dispicable that i honestly think it's an impeachable offense." to throw November's words in his face '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Like, let me give you an example. Reagan said that he'd let the democrats spend 1 dollar for every 2 they made a tax cut for. That was a compromise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'both sides keep using that word, compromise.  I don't think it means what they think it means.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'People loved that kind of shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It means you have to sacrifice some of what you want so the other people can go with you on a vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the FUCK was Obama supposed to offer the Republicans when they pretty much said "We're never going to compromise with you!" time and time again, sometimes OPENLY?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'there's a strong voice in the Republican party that refuses to raise taxes even back to Clinton levels, IE let the Bush temporary tax cuts expire.  They've said on record they wouldn't accept 10 dollars in spending cuts to a dollar in tax increases.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not ONCE did the Republicans present any viable bills of their own. They just voted Obama's bills down on principle.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'that is not compromise'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It requires leadership (aka a leader) to start a compromise. They did make a compromise on the debt deal.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'because Obama had to, to save the country.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, why not other times too?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what the Republicans have said? Regardless of who wins the Presidency in a week's time, they'll still refuse to discard the Bush tax cuts for the rich.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's the "compromise" they want. Let the rich get away with paying little taxes while the country suffesr, which leads to either a depression or raised taxes on the middle class.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'Obama does not lead congress.  He can try, but the constitution very intentionally limits his power there'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, but he can set the agenda and lead by persuading people to put forward things he wants.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republicans are traitorous abominations seeking to beggar non-rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Reagan did that all the time, and people loved it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'and, he did that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, they're not. They have a different way of looking at the 'rich' than you do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Reagan wasn't facing the Republican Part of 2008-2012!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They see 'Rich' as being thrifty or successful in life and they want all people to be that way.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then why do they want the not-rich to pay more taxes than the rich?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Good leaders know how to get people who disagree with them to go with them on things. They can bend a little, the quote I borrow, "Half a loaf of bread is better than none at all" - RR'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why do they intentionally make it harder for the non-rich to vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like talking to a saner Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I assume you are talking about voter ID'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'At the end of the day, it's still bullshit. Less insane bullshit, but still bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"It's all Obama's fault because he didn't compromise with the Republicans... who didn't want to compromise!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Many cases of voter fraud have gone uncaught in this great land. This is just a way to solve that. If you can think of a better idea that would disenfranchise less, I'd be supportive of it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Voter fraud is why we have Obamacare now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know why they compromised on the debt? Because not even their redneck constituents would be able to justify them not compromising on the debt!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They were covering their own ases.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'he had tons of press conferences to loop people in, he proposed a stimulus package to recover from the economic depression, he made very clear when the big debate around the bush tax cuts expiration happened in 2010 what the deal was, he modeled "Obamacare" after the Republican plan "Romneycare".  All for naught.  As Yuna said, the Republicans were never interested in compromise, they were interested in making Obama's Presidency numbers look shitty by dead ending anything he proposed, and they succeeded.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What many cases of voter fraud?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It comes to a point where its just too much, and showing your ID is just a way to solve it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seriously? The Republicans themselves admit very few cases of voter fraud occur.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You can only cite caught voter fraud.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, how the FUCK did voter fraud lead to Obamacare?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'and now, with thunderous applause, the right is claiming Obama failed'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'll explane.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you listen to me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'In Minnesota, the election came down to only a few hundred votes and Al Franken won.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's one thing to require an ID to vote. It's another thing altogether to require a SPECIFIC kind of ID to make it hard or near impossible for certain kinds of people to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yet, 1000 felons were allowed to vote which is not legal, and they voted 9-1 in his favor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That one vote was perhaps all that was needed to stop Obamacare'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK do you justify the Republicans making out-of-state drivers licenses invalid IDs for the purposes of voting?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We'll never know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yuna, I appreciate your concern for justice in these cases, but you have to criticize Democrats as well as Republicans when these things happen on both sides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well actually, why would you have an out of state drivers license to the precinct you vote in?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1) Obamacare passed by more than 1 vote. 2) The fuck are you talking about? 3) You do realize that Franken GAINED votes once the fraudulent votes had been thrown out, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'An open minded person sees that both parties give the shaft to many people to maintain power.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because you're a student.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if id's were free and easily accessible then bring on voter id's'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'otherwise they are illegal poll taxes to solve an imaginary problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'College students studying in another state.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I agree with that Twyst - if the feds ante up and pay for a national voter ID, I'm all for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it doesn't help when you have elected officials giving away the game by claiming "well we got voter ID done which will allow Romney to win this state" etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Since they reside in those states, they can legally vote there. But the Republicans are trying to keep them from doing that by disqualifying their drivers licenses as valid forms of voter ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well in most cases they will cast provisional ballots. This is probably why Ohio will not be declared next Tuesday.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'There are a lot of provisionals to count, most likely.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Voter fraus has NEVER been a widespread problem in the U.S. Your imaginary cases of 1000's of felonous voters (without proof or sources) does not a proper argument make.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it really doesn't bother me either way who wins the election'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'leaving the country for work anyways'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Here's the story: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/12/felons-voting-illegally-franken-minnesota-study-finds/'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Especially not when a prominent Republican let it slip that the reason they're passing all of these laws is to prevent Democrat-leaning voters from voting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'as far as the economy goes, I agree Twyst.  But, Republicans seem much more apt to take us into war than Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'and I do NOT want to go to war with Iran over fabricated claims of nukes (again)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'saving people from themselves hurts them in the long run'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No one is going to war with Iran. Well, maybe Israel. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not even that bullshit Faux Noise article had the balls to openly claim that Franken won through felons voting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1) They use the weasel word "may" because it would be slander otherwise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'another boon doggle like Iraq and (Iran) and republicans wont sniff an elected position for 40 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '2) How the FUCK would voter ID laws have prevented that from happening?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wasn't aware of it being impossible for felons to get IDs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lets not be disingenious November'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'you really think so Twyst?  You think the average right wing voter has two brain cells to rub together to realise how bad they got duped by Iraq?  Cuz their party still seems to have a lot of support'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, if you're a felon you are not going to have an ID and if you did have one, you'd be turned away.. because you'd be listed as an incarcerated felon.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in person voter fraud is almost ridiculously negligble'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'now absentee ballots on the other hand....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I wonder why they don't go after those? ....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, November, how the FUCK do the new voter ID laws prevent them from doing what they did in 2008?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They weren't able to vote because there were no voter ID laws, they were able to vote because people were lax in checking that felons weren't allowed to vote!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's my point though Taokan'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, if you had an ID under the new law'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Voter IDs are not special IDs. They're simply forms of ID accepted when voting!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There is no fucking state that hands out special voting IDs!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if a majority of the electorate can be fooled so easily and so repeatedly'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'then the country deserves what it gets'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And you tried to vote, by showing your ID, you would be determined an incarcerated felon.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'and then turned away.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK can't you do that WITHOUT the new bullshit laws?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, its not a special ID, it requires you to actually prove who you are.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And not someone else.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in person voter fraud is not a big deal'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What part of "Voter ID laws" =/= "Special IDs" are you not getting?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'think about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you mentally retarded?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I mean, don't you think its wrong for someone to vote for someone else?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the criminal mobsters (paid by the Republicans) rigging the election results is a more likely scenario in Presidential elections'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who would risk a major felony to cast an illegal vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The reason why those felons were caught was because they voted under THEIR OWN NAMES.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They didn't run around voting under OTHER PEOPLE'S names!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'a large part of the population doesn't bother to cast the legal variety'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But their votes were counted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'and Franken won.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There aren't thousands of cases each year of people voting under other people's names!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So how the FUCK would voter ID prevent them from doing what they did last election?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'exactly Twyst.  Fuck, half the people in this country don't vote that legally can, I can't conceive someone risking jail to vote twice/illegally'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Being more vigilant in not letting felons vote will. Not fucking idiotic voter ID laws.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well there are other cases too, like dead people voting, which BTW'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That happens on both sides.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which, by the way, CANNOT BE PREVENTED BY THE NEW VOTER ID LAWS'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'My point was merely voter fraud can swing elections and it has.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, OK we can debate the best way to overcome voter fraud'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That article you linked you didn't actually tell us how many felons voted for Al Franken. And for a good reason.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think you're suggesting a government paid for ID right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's because votes are private?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because if it did, Fox News wouldn't be able to insinuate Franken won through fraudulent votes because he didn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure they aren't if they're cast illegally.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well who people voted for isn't a public record.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then how the FUCK can you be sure Franken won because of voter fraud?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a Republican using the nonphoto id of other Republicans may cast multiple votes (on behalf of the other Republicans too lazy to do the actual voting)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, you have yet to be able to justify the new voter ID laws.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The margin was razor thin, and illegal votes were counted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And, November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who's to say Franken didn't win by a large margin, but all of those felons voted for his opponent?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We can't really know if it was enough. My point was that there's nothing wrong with cracking down on illegal voters.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they are adding an obstacle to voting'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look, there are probably other ways to do this. Thats what a debate is for. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'this obstacle affects people who are not illegal votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, how do we create a way for illegal votes to be thrown away without doing that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never fucking said there was. These new voter ID laws? Are wrong. Plain and simple.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have yet to be able to justify them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'interesting that you are worried about illegal votes now, November. Didn't seem to bother you in 2000 and 2004 :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I never understood how proving you are who you say you are is an obstacle'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'fraudster Republicans that know somebody is not going to vote may attempt to impersonate those nonvoters and cast votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think it would be better if you would put up another idea Yuna when criticizing this one.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'ids aren't free'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's about costs, Razkin.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'IDs are ridiculously expensive in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they're not that expensive either'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'maybe to you'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'bleh, 10 bucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depending on your jurisdition, it could cost you upwards for 100+ dollars.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, I have a question for you... should the homeless be able to vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And for college students, seniors and the poor, that's A LOT of money.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The homeless ARE able to fucking vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I imagine over the course of 4 years, I could save ten dollars'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So you think that to crack down on illegal voters, you should have an ID that you don't pay for.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, so you think they should panhandle enough to get voter ID instead of using the money to eat.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's fine November'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I'd be ok with free id's'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that isn't what is being propsed'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If it was required?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and, how are voter IDs going to prevent the dead from voting?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK, now, you realize even in this situation not everyone will get said ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'than it is on you'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if you want to require something,t hen you make it easily accesible, at least from a monetary stand point'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'then you can't cry that it's hard to get'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the criminal mobsters are likely to mass-produce false ids cheaply'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Hey the government wants everyone to be on a medical plan, doesn't mean its going to happen. :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but poll taxes and literacy tests were banned for a reason'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK that's cool, what would the cost of such a program be?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'This country is broke, btw, we need to be frugal here.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they Repubs are proposing to battle an imaginary problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the fake-ids only require to be good enough to fool the voting stations'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '300,000,000 ID cards, and a beauracracy to maintain it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Now, can you promise me such a system will not be corrupt?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Like, not sending out cards to GOPs because you're a huge Dem?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the infrastructure for maintaining IDs is already in place. It's called the DMV.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the passport system'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'any system you come up with will be corrupt on some level (maybe I"m cynical), but there's some systems that are less so than others'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well finally folks we're doing something useful on this channel!!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, the DMV also issues IDs to non-drivers, so anyone who qualifies simply goes there for an ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We're DEBATING it :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's wrong with just allowing any kind of IDs that are acceptable as proof of person in any other instance?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Explain Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Out-of-state drivers licenses.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Defend how they shouldn't be acceptable forms of voter ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because if you accepted any IDs then you wouldn't need a bureaucracy... and what bureaucracy will commit self-extermination?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm ok with that, as long as there's some accepted standard'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You mean you move into state X just in time for vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you little twit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You still need proof-of-residence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't care if someone shows up with a drivers license or not, just a legitimate form of proof of identity and residence'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK so a piece of paper and an out of state drivers license'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But you shouldn't have to shell out a hundred of so bucks to get a useless 2nd form of ID you're never going to have to use.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, you don't even live here'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now you've given the vote to illegals with fake ID'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If an out of state driver's license is sufficient for EVERY SINGLE OTHER THING you need an ID for, why not to vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'legals don't vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Any system will be undermined'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's ok DosseT, we're debating the best way to crack down on illegal voters'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why would illegals vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it just blows my mind that I can buy a beer without id, but I can vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'why wouldn't illegals vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, not people illegally in the country, illegal votes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK so no shelled out new ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, how is an out-of-state driver's license not a sufficient form of ID?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Just a *valid* ID that somehow has to be checked '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Fake IDs'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'was this your concern in 2000 and 2004, November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'and a proof of residency?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By that logic, DosseT, NO form of ID is acceptable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, November. I already said that it would include a  proof of residency.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think enough illegal voting has happened that people have reached a point that they want a change Anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's true that it would be hard to come up with a fool-proof system'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you suffering from a sudden bout of early on-set dementia?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok this is cool so far, I think with me.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No need to get mean. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, I just find it convenient that is this election that they want to do it, not in 2004 after the obvious fraud of 2000.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then explain why Republicans have tried to invalidate that form of ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(+ proof of residence)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I don't think it's been tried, has it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're aware of the push for the National ID card, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So if I show up at my poll with an out of state ID and proof of residence, I can just vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That could be one step toward it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're missing the forest for the trees'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"And Pennsylvania's voter identification bill, still on the books for now, disallows many student IDs and non-Pennsylvania driver's licenses, which means out-of-state students may be turned away at the polls"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'One way to usher in the catch-all ID would be to institute a voter ID, then ease in to other things'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Question, wouldn't that be easy to fake out Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not so much about the voting as it is introducting the concept'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would an out-of-state ID be so much harder to fake than an in-state ID?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'When I was in school in Pennsylvania, I voted in NYS.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually I was thinking the proof of residence part.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Faking that out. Like people who cross lines to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's happened in this country too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet the Republicans aren't trying to limit proof-of-residence-based voting!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'regular totally legal able bodied adults don't vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK, well maybe they should.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why would you risk your freedom to add 1 more vote illegally ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you want to steal an election, stuff a ballot'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You CANNOT defend these transparent attempts to make it harder for people who support the Democrats to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'change computer votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or have your brother be Gov of a recount state :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and a favorable supreme court'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, I think people should be able to cast provisional ballots and then prove their ID later. But, proving your ID to vote and your residency (in some way that is not easy to fake) has my support.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Is it not hard to get a fake ID?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Can one make a fake residency proof, an electrical bill or something?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All you'll do is create an ID gray/black market'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so who's to say the new voter id laws couldn't be faked under that argument'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Every measure has a counter-measure'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sure, the point is, what's good enough?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'DMVs require a 6 point system where I am from, New Jersey'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is good enough?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'most people seem to think the current state of affairs are alright'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its a pain to get all that shit together'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Proof of residency is a special document provided by your jurisdiction.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, they know who you are.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I.e. it's a government document.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not just a fucking electric bill.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well the electric bill is only 1 point.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The irony here is that if the roles were reversed, I'm sure you'd consider the use of IDs a brilliant move'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The question to debate is, how much proof should you have to provide before it becomes unrealistic that most people would fake it... BUT also not disenfranchise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're less against the idea per se, and more that the GOP is using it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, I don't consider disenfranchising anyone a brilliant move. Its dispicable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DosseT, don't you have some kind of CIA-BP oil spill conspiracy to rant about?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The debate is, where is the happy medium?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's you, actually'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'where as few disenfranchisements happen and as few illegal votes happen.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Thats what the states have to figure out. And they will, we have 50 test experiments going on.. One of them will get it right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And then we'll use that state's strategy in other states and the problem will resolve as best as we could reasonably do.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'not perfect, but better than now.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if we use the states strategy in other states it will be called socialism'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'About 10 cases of fraudulent votes would've been stopped by voter ID laws last election. 10.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No it isn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's not pretend this is anything but a Republican attempt to steal the election.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no one claims romneycare sucks in MA'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If state A does a good thing, copying it in state B is not socialism'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is socialism jammed down the throat for the US'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I still don't understand why it's too much to ask that people proove who they are if they're going to affect an election, I mean really'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No it isn't Yuna. Any more than the Democrats doing things purposefully to keep people poor so they'll vote for them is...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'It may be our government's responsibility to make sure that everyone has the ability to obtain that proof, but peopel should still have to proove who they are'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '"keep your government hands of my Medicare"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'man I can't type tonight'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Just because we havent figured out the best solution to the problem of illegal voters yet doesn't mean we wont or should try'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'shouldnt try'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Show us any kind of proof that the new voter ID laws will prevent widespread fraudulent voting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You should have faith in that it will happen and will work out.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you might have a bug problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I dont' even care about illegal voters or anything else, I just think that it's something everyone should have to do to be able to vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you dont throw a canister of mustard gas in there'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it creates more problems than it might solve'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well each state's law is different, right Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Any kind of acceptable ID should be enough. End of story.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I dont think they'r just copies of one another.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I dont' disagree with that, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But what is acceptable? And how can you prove it? A McDonalds ID badge?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You just want the illegals' votes'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You counter the GOP strategy with one with a greater effect'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what's acceptable should be left up to the states, imo'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong resolution'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'There are 10 million + illegal people in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how many of them vote?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And they probably would vote for Democrats if given the option.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they keep a LOW profile'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Who knows?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Low profile? Ever been to NYC?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, actually in sanctuary cities they do not'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anything the government deems as acceptable as proof of identity when it comes to dealing with the government should be enough.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's more don't-ask-don't-tell'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If it isn't, why does the government allow it in the first place?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'screw walfare...vote Romney :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'because they benefit from it, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK and paid for by the government, right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If all the illegals were out of NYC, NYC would go out of business'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'because we don't want to disenfranchise poor people'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Sahuagin sucks balls btw'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'd have to see it to understand - fake immigration cards, fake I-9s, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'just though I would break up the tension'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Regulators don't give a shit, HR just kinda nods it through - not like an audit will catch it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You give illegals a vote, and the Democrats will get a large boost'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'yea...poor ppl love welfare'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'democrats have a know problem GOTV of legals'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but man those illegals sure vote like the elderly'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'reliably and on time '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK so, Yuna wants me to pay some tax money to enusre people all have an ID so they can vote (if they want to) as long as they also show a valid form of residency (usually this is done when they register ahead of time)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah right'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No I don't. Stop fucking lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Where would the money come from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i heard yuna is a socialist nazi'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The idea is good in theory, just terrible in practice'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Or should poor people pay for it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When the FUCK did I call for free Ids?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well hang on, this is about poor people not getting IDs costing 100s of dollars right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mokg: 'it costs ~5 dollars to get a state ID'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'depends'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Any form of ID the government deems valid should be valid for voting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'costs more like $25 in NC'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I would say the average is 25$'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Usually those cost money in this country Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: '$15 for renewal'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not to mention the other paperwork'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is necessary to get the DL'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. And most people ahve some form of ID. Just not a DMV ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or ID'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mokg: 'it was 5 dollars in hawaii when I had to get one last'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok so wait, what's the problem? Why is asking everyone to get a government ID disenfranchising people?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'poor people suck'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, they don't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because you shouldn't have to get a 2nd form of ID just to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ahhhhhhh OK.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you could make state id's free, and raise the price on driver's license'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'they shoulda done there homework in sschool and make good grades like me :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'or would that disenfranchise poor drivers?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah that seems silly. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'tell me this'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If I'm a student in NYC, yet I have a California driver's license, my driver's license (+ proof of residence) should be enough. I shouldn't have to shell out 25-100 dollars on an ID I'm NEVER EVER GOING TO NEED except for the purposes of voting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I agree with you, in most cases I can't see why a 2nd form would be needed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why are these bills against in perosn ID fraud?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and not Absentee?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I want to know which states have 100 dollar id's'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'my girl just voted and they didnt even ask her for ID'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's rediculous'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in CA a driver's license is 31 USD and a state ID is 25.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ugh, can't type'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well you are OK with registering ahead of time to vote, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'people don't think they're vote counts as it is'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'unless you plan on illegally voting like 200 times'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'debate Yes, Anaristos, but with a driver's license, I can drive AND prove my identity. I can't do both of thsoe things with an ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'than I don't see how that changes'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course November, seeing as how you HAVE to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK yes, I see no real issue then. You're paying for the ID. You have to show it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well registration ahead of time resolves the residency question.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'any reputable news source and study find in person voter ID to be a non issue'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I've paid for people on welfare ever since I've had a job...why should they have nice flat screen TVs and get free government chese I pay for....might as well pay for their ID as well'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think actually Yuna and I agree on something. Hey, stranger things have happened.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The workers pay the non-workers; now give the non-workers more clout'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'wait, what'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its funny how the Uber rich have convinced the ones who are doing alright to carry water for them'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the percentage of income that has moved to the top in the last 8 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, the 100 dollar cost isn't just for having an ID made, it's the total cost. You need to prove your identity and for that you need your birth certificate and some people don't have their original certificatse, so they have to jump through hoops to get a copy of it and then apply for na ID and in the end, it'll all rack up to 100 or so bucks.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'belies the argument that more and more moochers are getting free money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And you're OK for everyone to spend that money because they want to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so there's no id's that cost 100 dollars?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't see anyone but Obama having problems furnishing a birth certificate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'He means total cost, starting with nothing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No. It's just costs that much in total to get an ID.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'again, why are you re-inventing the wheel? The DMV already does all that. Try getting your license without a way to prove who you are see if you get it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol this should be a new Godwin's law'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'give me a link of Romney's birth certificate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Is your problem with this on money? or what exactly? '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'oh wait don't have it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I wonder why not'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You say it disenfranchises Democrats so GOP will win,'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're all fake is why'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Why would that be so? '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I said this the other day, I think everyone who's running for president should ahve to furnish their birth certificate, even Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'if not money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't get a a birth certificate when you are either hatched or crawl from under  a rock :>'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see... these voter ID laws are most costly/devestating to the poor, people of color, elderly and college students.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All of these vote predominantly Democrat. Hmmmmmmmmmm...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I gotcha. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I had a driver's license in college, so I have to disagree with that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK so, the government should make it cheaper to get an ID'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'but not free'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Razkin, what part of "Out of state driver's licenses are not valid in some states" are you not getting?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'so again....my agrguement is simple...poor people suck and shoulda done their homework instead of smoking crack and getting each other knocked up'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'if you cant afford an id card you prob shouldnt have an opinion'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if I'm going to college, and spending 20k a year, I can fork out 10 dollars for a license'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler tries to high five himself, but ends up looking foolish instead.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I already said I don't care if it's an out of state license, so you're just not paying attention'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why should you even have to fork out over 10 bucks for a 2nd license YOU WILL NEVER EVER NEED TO USE?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and there ends the great US of A'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you are too poor you don't get to vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't seem to realize that some states DO care if it's an out of stat elicense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'followed by if you don't make 100k'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because in some states, you CAN'T VOTE with an out-of-state license!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'followed by if your not Donald Trump rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'and usually if you are poor you are stupid as well and shouldnt vote'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Twyst, it's the opposite'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have to get an in-state license/ID/passport/whatever!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It used to be land-owners'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I do realize that, but we're talking about what could be done'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Then women'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea you should have a valid id from the state you live in, thats the law most places'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which is RIDICULOUS because you already paid for your 1st license, which is VALID, to begin with.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm saying that I would be ok if people proved their identity with an out of state license, as long as they can proove that they are a resident'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet that's not enough for the Republicans. So they're clearly trying to steal the election. End of story.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I'd like to combine all the IQ from Romney voters and compare that to the cumulative IQ of Obama voters.....its obvious more SMART people chose ROmney cuz and dumbasses chose Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I can honestly see that argument, Yuna. $100 is a lot. Would you be OK if people formed organizations that raised money to get that $100 for poor people? I.e. does the government have to pay for it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol, its hard enough to get registered voters to the polls'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Their plausible deniability ended with the "No out-of-state licenses" bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but illegals are just lining up around the block'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What's the deal with the poor-people thing'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"poor-people" is no longer poverty-stricken, but now a gimmedat culture'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm trying to figure out who Yuna thinks this is disenfranchising?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'poor people cause my life so much headache'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'd be OK with less bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You should see some welfare recipients and the lifestyles they live on government money (i.e. my money)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'tell that to the homeless'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Poor people, or out of state people college students'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Poor people would be disenfranchised if it was too expensive to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The poor, people of color, the eldery, college students. What part of my previous statement was confusing to you, November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I'll be in the grocery store line having to wait forever cuz somebody didnt chose the right cheses for their footstamps etc and i just wnated to buy my damn beer and walk out'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I think you have a number of reasons, not all the same.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"poor-people" now are people that decided to get pregnant so they could get free housing, food, and amenities'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'but no....Shaniqua didnt get the right cheese so now i gotta wait in line while her kids keep yelling ....gross'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'those are most of your "poor-people" - bottom-dwelling freeloaders'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok so for the poor - cheaper IDs. The people of color? not sure what we could do there - the elderly? Not sure either. College students - no second ID. Got it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The irony is that the true people living in poverty suffer still'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree that it's harder for the poor, but I disagree with the people of color, elderly, and college students'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They all fall under the "They don't have money" banner.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Every single one of those groups suffer from low-income and are thus hit hard by expensive-as-shit IDs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Cheaper IDs then?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'colored people don't have money? o.O'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. Cheaper IDs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, they don't have "no money"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Agreed. Not free. Cheaper.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They have themselves two wheels of the guvment chedder'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Colored people are generally less rich/poorer than white people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For a variety of reasons.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Because not working/being responsible has been incentivized, guess what they do? They don't work and don't be responsible, because they get paid to'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You should read the book, Guns Germs and Steel Yuna, I think you might find it fascinating.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why work when you can pop out two kids'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that was a good book'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so was collapsed'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh, who wrote that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'jared diamond'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'same guy as guns, germs, and steel'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ahh ok, same guy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'cuz they didnt do their homework in school bc all the rap vides made them think it was more worthwhile to play basketball, smoke crack, and get some girls preggers instead of staying at home and doing some homework'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'slightly, well, way off topic, but it was a fascinating read :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'in a nutshell'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I like GGS (guns germs steel)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'especially the chapter on Easter Island'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It basically explains why who got rich got rich and who stayed poor stayed poor on about 15 different dimensions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'All in the race to get to guns, germs, and steel first.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'yea..blame it on the rap culture :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler nods at Really R. Bigman.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Nope. Actually it has to do with food production and geographical location'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'rap culture'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you guys are too funny'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'and many other factors which you might be suprised by.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Read the book, Guns Germs and Steel.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The layout of the continents has more to do with it than rap culture.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I think it would an interesting and enlightening experience if Romney is elected'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I argue that because of the biased media, Republican candidates usually end up being stronger.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It'll be another scapegoat to perpetuate the two-party sham'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the media being Biased is a sham'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sure it is - watch the fake white noise for Ron Paul'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I take that back'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama commits gaffes all the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Benghazi should be the death knell for him. But, if you off the cuff on a bad day you're feeling depressed say 47% of people are too dependent on government'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it might have a bias but not a liberal bias'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Benghazi a death knell?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '... watch out'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It should be.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '9/11/2001 was 1 million times worse'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Have any of you guys played Starcraft I, the original?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, there's liberal leaning news outlets, and conservative leaning news outlets, and I don't think it's really that surprising'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's your fault if you only read one point of view'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Razkin, go look and see who owns em all'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'imo'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, that's kind of an interesting conversation'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a good-cop bad-cop charade'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'because I think you could'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah :D'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not immediately calling the benghazi attack an act of terror =/= A gaffe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Do you remember the opening scene, when the commander abandons his troops to the Zerg? and flies away? I just keep thinking about those poor guys on that roof and how Obama turned his back on them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at the end of the day, it's the dollar that's important, so if people want liberaly leaning views, news outlets will write liberal leaning views, and vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why didn't Romney bring that up in the debate?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because it is recent BS from Hannity and co'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We didn't really know this until this week.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why on earth would he do that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it makes zero sense, and one thing you have to admit is that Obama is pretty pragmatic guy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I really hope he didn't.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but you truly believe he did'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'd like to see the evidence, the executive order'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet you've already concluded that he did based on zero evidence.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'that said he sent support'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except "Unnamed sources".'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's the thing though, the doubt is enough'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, he should give proof that he tried.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'When they called for help.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '30% of the country still thinks Obama is a muslim'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Donald Trump, I didn't know you mudded?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'when it is quantifiable nonsense'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama doesn't even know his own birthday'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'DosseT over here believes Obama is not a born US citizen'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he could have live tape of the birth'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well there are US military officials now, sorry I don't have their names off hand, who are coming on to the record saying that they were never given orders to send help.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and would deny it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: '"I really hope Obama didn't do all this stuff I'm randomly accusing him of"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Listen to Obama forget his own birthday multiple times on TV'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What was he supposed to do? Station 1000 troops in Benghazi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, just send about a couple dozen from Italy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'To rescue them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All they ahd were reports that terrorist cells MAY have been plottign attacks on unnamed targets. What a wealth of information!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's SO MUCH we can do in response to that short of simply pulling every single U.S. citizen out of Benghazi.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'd be singing a different tune if the GOP had it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well perhaps that should have been done before. Still, there are a lot of pro-Americans in Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your "debate" style is getting old'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what happend was horrible, but it's the attempted cover up that really makes me mad, but people keep forgetting about that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The fact that only someone born in the US can be president is silly and irrelevant. You guys need to update your political system to something that is relevant today.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what coverup?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What attempted cover-up?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'blaming it on one thing (video), then on something else, then saying, well, you can read all of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Even still, when someone tries to beat you in an election by saying you didn't help US marines when they called for help...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You should step up and tell them they're full of shit and deliver proof.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'blaming what on the video?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the attacks in benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so what if they thought it was the video'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why is that a crime?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They couldn't be sure at that point what had caused the attack. And maybe they were trying to not alert to the terrorists to the fact that they knew.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well maybe. Clinton was impeached for lying.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh, if initially they did, that's fine with me too, but to continue to do that once you figure out that that wasn't the case is disturbing'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Since they still needed to stabilize the situation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'clinton was impeached by people who did the same or worse as him'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, the question is, did Obama watch the evening of September 10th-11th the live feed coming in and see that there was no incited riot by a video?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it was obviously partisan'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because they coudln't beat the guy in the elections'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'and then refuse help when it was called for?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The question is: Why the FUCK would you even contemplate that scenario?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no matter what I always give Reps the benefit of being rational actors'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And if he did, why say it was a video, and why not prove us wrong?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're either a conspiracy theorist or desperate to throw any dirt on Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By doing what?! Prove that he DIDN'T watch a live feed from Benghazi?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually, I just want to know what happened because people died.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How is inventing a persona for Obama not conspiracy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why was there a live feed from Benghazi to begin with?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A persona which runs counter to reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Because it was under attack by terrorists?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'DosseT are you serious?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And we had assets on the ground giving a live feed?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'like for real?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, denying reality = conspiring'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And why would Obama be watching that particular live feed?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what reality?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like denying that his mom Stanley is a CIA asset'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I believe there have been accounts that he did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Twyst, you have lots of research to do'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Wasn't there a congressional hearing on this?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The intelligence reports said nothing about the embassy. In fact, there were no reports of any planned attacks on the embassy. So why the FUCK would Obama be staring a feed of the embassy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Where sworn statements were made before congress?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is the Gain DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'always follow incentives, they never lie'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I believe, at least if I understand the reports, the live feed started four hours or something after the initial attacks'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Which lasted for 7 hours right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and if I remember correctly, it was a drone feed'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, November, you believe a lot of things. How about you prove your beliefs with some sources?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so I'd imagine he was told what was going on, and then went to watch the feed once it went live'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'at the end of the 7 hours, the marine/mercs were killed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I'd have to double check that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but that's my understanding of the live feed bit'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what does Obama have to gain by that?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'by what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'by denying them help'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama is a very cautious cat.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'He doesn't like to risk things unless he is certain of the outcome.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, this is war. And its an election year.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How would giving them help risk anything?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And Americans dont want war.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm conflicted by that, on the one hand, I understand not sending people in, but on the other hand, I can't imagine not sending help'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And he wants his job for four more years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's why he didn't authorize the strike on OBl'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because it was risk free :p'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama's a pawn, not a player'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It's hard to say what his motives really are. We're not him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Get real'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but people do all the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, all we can do is judge his actions.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Would you send in 20 troops to rescue 4 thinking you might lose all 24?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And make the headlines that way?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's why I understand not sending them in'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see... Obama may or may not have misjudged a situation you couldn't possibly have been able to accurately predict without being psychic. His alleged mistake lead to lives being lost. >He may or may not have lied about it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, that's war. People die in war. That's the only real truth behind it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'even though it sounds cold, not losing more lives is important, imo'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And this is important enough to obsess over for WEEKS?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'd be singing a different tune if it were Dubya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Come on'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm still going to want answers after next Tuesday, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so would you'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You care less about isolated events than leveraging them to your political standpoint'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm non-partisan, Twyst'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Meanwhile, Romney and Ryan are lying to our faces on a daily basis. Dubya's "mistakes" lead to HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of lives lost, yet the 'Murkin people gave him 4 more years.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama spent more on war than Dubya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Let's not get into a debate which political side has, in human history, costed more innocent lives than the other.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Get real'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sure, DosseT. A non-partisan Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama doesn't know his own birthday: it's on national TV'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Deny more'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What fresh insanity is this?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how many people would need to be in on this for it to work DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, someone says he's non-partisan, then proceeds to blame obama for spending more on war than bush?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'None; simply that he forgot his made-up birthday?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh please, Obama was born in this country - get over it. Even if he hadn't been, it's irrelevant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Source, DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No blaming, but you're talking about who's lying to whom'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you didn't answer the question'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well gw prob made more money on the war '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how many people would it take to pull of a conspiracy of this size?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Twyst, start by reading about Stanley Ann Dunham'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I can't blame Obama for forgetting his birthday, I once forgot mine, so...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'yes, I know what the constitution says. But you have to understand, even if all the proof was put out right now - irrefutably that Obama was not born in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As usual, DosseT refuses to give us a source.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It would not matter one bit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you know this, November, because you can testify against him?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'aren't you parroting someone else's line?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The birther argument is stupid because it goes nowhere.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Even if it is true, which it probably isnt'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wF_n-gn-Yo'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'good hedge'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'probably'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Who knows, who cares?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its a meaningless debate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'November, weren't you also accusing Obama of something there is no proof of, and equating it with him flying away in a ship while soldiers were under fire?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, then why bring it up?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I didn't, DosseT did.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it obviously mattered or it wouldn't have gotten as much play'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'from people like Hannity and co'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'All things considered I prefer DosseT's flavor of crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so if they are bullshitting about that why not Benghazi?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How am I supposed to date that video?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama is currently 51, sop u'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ixle, Obama should have issued an executive order and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the military never got it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or any of the other 'Gates they have tried to attach to O'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama is currently 51, so unless he also forgot what AGE he is, that video is NOT from this year.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, if they called for help, and Obama saw that, and has no order ....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why does the year of the video matter?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sorry DosseT, I'm with Yuna on this one. That's a far right-wing looney-tunes argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it matters because it plays on the simple-mindness of the US public. Eagleton was the governor of Missouri. He dared run for president. It turns out that once he had been hospitalized and the public was told that he had been hospitalized because he was an alcoholic. Of course, eventually the public found out that it was not true, but Eagleton's political career was over.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I asked you to give me a proper source, not a video some Birther posted on Youtube without context.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Can you fill me in, where did troops request something that the president needed to approve and didn't? '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, Obama once said he'd be turning 50 in a week's time. We have no clue WHEN he said that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because there's no context provided in the video. Did he say that approximately 1 week before his 50th birthday? Did he say it in the middle of July? Did he say it when he was in fact turning 51? We cannot possibly know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You didn't watch the whole video'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We can't even know for sure he even misremembered to begin with.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Perhaps I just haven't seen this bit of information.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not only that, but the subsequent follow-up is what was incriminating'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What is there to fucking see?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama said something, the video repeated it, then a Birther spoke in a voice-over.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some screenshots from Myspace and shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'He needed to approve the request because it would require us to invade Libya to essentially rescue them (albeit temporarily). The military can't act without the president's "go" order like Reagan did in Grenada in 1983.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is gained by creating a pseudo Obama DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I heard Oboma has AIDS'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler nods quietly to himself.  What a wacko.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'And can you show me where this was requested of him and he refused?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there is about a 70% chance Obama is reelected'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yet, when Fox News inquired, the military had been given no order.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'on the off chance the Romney is elected, it will be a good teaching experience'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'apparently Bush II wasn't enough'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, the question comes down to the proof of if the troops did ask for help'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'please, November, have some respect. Don't use Fox News as a source.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And they have sources now that have gone on the record and said that happened.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I love the bumber sticker with Bush saying "Miss me yet?"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, no FN is not a source'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '538 gives Obama a 77.4% chance of getting re-elected. And his chances keep rising the closer we get to the election. 538 hasn't bene wrong yet (except for a SINGLE senate race last time)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You keep using this word "if"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'the people they interview who are in the military / CIA are.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Fox news also release "bomb shell" new "ground breaking " vid of Obama to counter the 47% vid of Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'too bad is was shown 4 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and didn't matter then'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did Fox News actually show those alleged military personnel/CIA members?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they are obviously in the Tank for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and Fox News played the video of Bin Laden in 2004 saying that he did it. So convenient prior to the elections...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And provide proof that they're actively serving in Libya and/or CIA agents?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's July 15, 2011'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'on archives'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just keep denying'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, later we find out that it wasn't Bin Laden, but hay, wtf :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that video was POSTED on July 2011, you idiot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Anaristos is a CIA implant'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That doesn't date Obama's STATEMENT.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'created to fool us us ALL'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because he made a mistake with a date'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The statement is July 15, 2011'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We just know that he said it BEFORE or on July 15 2011, not WHEN he said it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in 2004 Bin Laden "admitted" on video that he was the cause of 9/11. A fat, healthy, Bin Laden.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Source that Obama said that on July 15 2011?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you find it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'any archives'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why should I do your Birther bullshit job for you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'Do zombies poop?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You want me step into your frame so you can say that ABC/NBC/CNN's archive got changed'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'one would hope so'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The liberal argument is everything-I-don't-believe-is-wrong'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler nods at Razkin.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I bet zombie poop smells worse than human poo'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the sane argument'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'can't disprove a negative'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Sane Argument is: Prove your case.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh yeah, the chief source of the denied support is'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do you know why prosecutors have to give a motive to get convistions?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'ok well zombies eat humans and therefore i think their poop would smell worse, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, first prove that it is relevant :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who gains by inventing "Obama"?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Tyrone Woods, a former Navy Seal. He was told to stand down when help was requested from the fire-fight going on at the embassy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's really farcical and makes people not take you seriously'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I bet it'd be really frustrating being a zombie that's cut in half above your stomach'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'He was ordered by the president to stand down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/07/obamas-senior-moment-ill-be-turning-50-in-a-week/'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Get real, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now you'll actually believe what ABC says'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you still haven't answered my question, November in re the attack at the embassy. What were two mercenaries doing in Libya and what were they doing at the embassy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so what'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'yea...but as the newest episode of Walking Dead shows....once you take away a zombies hunger (stomach) they become dossile and let you pet them, etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now that wasn't that hard, was it? Doing your job for once.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it wasn't even an embassy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it was a small ass consulate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'zombie sex'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well all we're establishing is if request for help was asked for and did someone deny it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not my job'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, let's forget the actual building, what were two mercs doing there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'this coming from the people who cut funding for Embassy security'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'don't ruin it for me, it's on dvr, haven't watched it yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/10/26/cia-operators-were-denied-request-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, that proves Obama isn't born in the U.S. because he forgot what date it was. Apparently, he misspoke about Malia's birthday as well. Clearly, Malia isn't who she says she is either!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler laughs out loud at Razkin.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Connect the dots'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'NO, we are trying to find a basis for your charactarization of the President deserting troops under fire.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'here's a surpise:  the episode sux its just a character development episode...doesn't even show the main characters'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the dots make a random ass image'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'All that it says is that request for aid was denied. But, the Military can't send aid in this place without the President's go'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is like connecting the dots in white noise'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'At least I am.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Forgetting a birthday would definitely support having a false one - amazing conclusion'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We are Ixle, but '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's good November, worry about Obama's bdate but not about what 2 mercs were doing in Libya...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Having a mom Stanley Ann as a CIA asset helps'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is the gain DosseT'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm piecing it together.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it looked to me like it was going to be about michonne, but still, I'll watch it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '>I forget my birthday all the time. Once you go past 21, they're kinda unimportant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The gain is tricking sheep like you, Twyst, into believing you live in a free world in which you elect the POTUS'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Some marine being told to stand down by someone yet to be identified is a long ways from that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, if military soldiers asked for aid, and the presidents go was needed, and it was denied...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rather than the POTUS being a CFR pawn selected by the global banksters'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look, it just doesn't look right.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, all soldiers are military...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'That's a fine opinion, but no basis for your claim that the president deserted troops under fire.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In that same Fox News article: CIA spokeswoman Jennifer Youngblood, though, denied the claims that requests for support were turned down. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but even so, are you saying that the mercs asked for help and Obama turn them down?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'basically, you're prepared to take Tyrone Wood's words over Jennifer Youngblood's.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And declare Obama at fault despite there being ZERO evidence besides Tyrone Wood's testimony.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'or is the US admitting that the "former" seals weren't "former" at all?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually what I'm suggesting is that Obama maybe didn't send people in because he needed a clearer picture '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'that's a possibility'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which sounds like good leadership'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but it is supposed to be curtain's for him'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well maybe so, mabye not. I mean its war. People are dying and asking for aid. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sometimes you have to go into a shit fight to save lives'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But was it honorable to let them be killed because you need a clearer picture?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its a lose-lose situation'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Maybe, possibly, but yet those words weren't in your claim it reminded you of a captain flying off and leaving troops to die. This is what I take strong offense to.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Depends Twyst.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how about this pciture? The 2 "former" seals were working outside the chain of command because they were involved in what was going on in Libya. The were found out by the people there and mark for termination. The US could not involve themselves officially because it would have been discovered that they were actually responsible for the destabilization of Libya.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, maybe so Ixle. We don't really know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'everyone has a filter'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if Obama invented the cure for aids tomorrow'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'fox news would say he is contributing to overpopulation'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You keep acting like it's amibigous, yet your prior statement that I take offense to had no ambiguity to it. Don't you see that as a problem?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Leaving troops to die when you could do something is what happened. Why did you have that happen?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, PROOF?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is what supposedly happened'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its still unfolding.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but, November, they weren't troops, they were FORMER seals. Former means no longer.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'can't use an unproven allegation as a premise'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have only a SINGLE person's testimony to that. And a lot of people's testimony AGAINST it!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Is it what happened, or is it maybe, possibly, amibigously what happened?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They were protecting the US Embassy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You can't seem to make up your mind.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet you've already declared Obama guilty because your your partisanship!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'This is a problem in rational thought.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm declaring Obama as the type of guy who is not really suitable to risk human lives to save other human lives.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, in war, you have to do that type of thing. Its ugly.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in order for Obama to be accused of abandoning troops you first have to admit that they were troops.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well they were troops. Ex-navy seals are still treated, by the military, as troops'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you mean "lawful combatant"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And all the honor that goes with it too'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'No he doesn't Anaristos, he can claim maybe, possibly they were, and then declare whatever he wants.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'It's the upside of irrationality.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_the_U.S._diplomatic_mission_in_Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'god I wish Nov 6th would just get here'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Failure to act when you needed to act.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, I see. So if you are a retired veteran in some country you can expect the US to send in a division of marines to rescue you after you have been acting in behalf of some insurgency.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if anyone wants a friend 10tp wager I'm open to that as well :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well they were attacking US soil here, soverign soil that belongs to our country.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it wasn't an embassy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it was a consulate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the mercs were there to help destabilize Libya.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they were executed by the insurgents.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think technically it still is our property Twyst.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"2012-Oct-28: Retired Army Lt. Col. Tony Shaffer told Fox News that he has sources saying President Obama was in the White House Situation Room watching the assault unfold in real time.  However, Obama was visiting wounded veterans at the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Maryland for about two-and-a-half hours around that time-frame."'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'fourth hand info debunked by reality'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well the event happened over 7 hours.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I dont think that's being debated'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I see you still skirt the problem of why were those 2 mercs there, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They were defending the US consulate, and trying to get the ambassador out'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, let me get this straight so I won't miss your point. The consulate had no marines defending it, instead they had 2 hired guns.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ex-marines are marines. Just because you're not on the payroll as a US soldier doesn't mean you aren't military'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ask any soldier if they would treat a retired marine the same as a marine'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so why take the job of actual marines?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They'd say yes.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'when they can pay contractors a ton more to do it....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well that's a good question, why weren't US soldiers there?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you really believe that. So, they saw the embassy under attack and they decided to go in and defend it. They were the only 2 "troops" killed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '3 and the ambassador right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I will say that the ambassador was targeted too. I don't know about the 4th casualty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think there were 3 fighter-types and 1 ambassador, I'd have to check on that one'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'They 3 of them were targeted because they were acting in a manner considered subversive by some insurgent group. They were executed. Then the boogey man was blamed for the action. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'BTW: they lasted 7 hours in a fight with heavy machine guns, that's really saying a lot about their courage.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Courage is not an issue, the issue is what were they doing in Libya.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Defending the US consolate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Where an Ambassador was'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama's representative to Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you can show me that they were there to carry out non-military activities I will be satisfied to say that their execution wasn't provoked.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They were there guarding it, on September 11th.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wait, you are saying that the mercs were representing the US government?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who told you that that was what they were  doing?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well you treat these guys as if they were something like hired thugs'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'they were guards.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's exactly what mercs are, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Who happened to be decorated US Military personnel (retired)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm sorry, a retired decorated US soldier is not a thug.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they weren't there as US personnel. The were there under a civilian contract.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, so they are guarding the Ambassador, no?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And they get into a fight cause someone attacks them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why, you don't think thugs can get decorated? Hell, I think that Custer was a thug and he was not only a thug but was promoted to general.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, they call for help. Sounds reasonable.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'A thug and a US soldier are different because of their actions. These guys where honorable, not mere bandits'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you want to buy that story. But then why claim the Al Qeda executed them? You either have a casualty of an attack on the embassy or the attack on the embassy was to execute them, you can't have both.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Not sure I follow, they were attacking the US consolate for a reason: they're at war with us'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Help was requested, other marines disobeyed orders and went in anyways'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the report is that the deaths of the 4 was due to an Al Queda attack.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And when they asked for help, none was given.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'We are not talking about marines stationed at the consulate. We are talking about 2 civilians that died there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well the terrorists might have been affiliated with Al Queda'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And a US ambassador'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, they might have been affiliated with the John Birch society. The point being, that that  just a lot of hot air being issued.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, OK so do you agree that the US military should protect a US ambassador if he's in trouble.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'absolutely, I think that they should. But, if the ambassador is engaged in destabilizing a country then what happens to him is  part and parcel for the course.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Lol, OK so you claim that Obama sent an ambassador there to destabilize Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I would imagine Obama would want the exact opposite.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what, would that surprise you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Unless he really isn't who I think he is.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama isn't a monster here, he's just the kind of guy who won't risk lives in war to save other lives in war. I think that's the only conclusion that could be reached.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US, the country famous for the Iran-Contra affair would not try to do something like destabilizing Libya?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I mean if he said no for another reason then yeah, he's not a nice guy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We just helped the rebels win Libya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Why would we want to destabilize it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The US may have helped some rebels, not all rebels.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK well whatever, look this stuff is still coming out. And I know people are biased against FXN, but no one else is covering this'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And I want to know why aid was not given when requested by people who served this country so well.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They got into a shit fight. That's war. They asked for help. O said no for whatever reason. Why?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Then perhaps you should research it instead of making unfounded accusations that are easily contradicted.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well it's still developing Ixle.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Exactly why you should learn to hold your tongue.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that the attacks on the Consulate and the CIA annex were very brief, and 7 hours apart '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Research isn't a "gut feeling" type of thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Doesn't it bother you that when US soldiers asked for help, they were denied.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'It bothers me that you have NO PROOF to support that staement.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'And yet you keep circling around to it because it makes you feel better.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But I do, The testomony of a US Navy Seal who was involved'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'November seems to be BSing'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Who said to reporters that his requests for help were denied. Its in the link I sent you'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Wiki article descibes a different picture of events to that BS by November'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'and there is directly  contradicting statement by someone else involved'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The CIA isn't going to help them, they didn't ask for CIA assistance'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Only the US military could have sent those planes in to help.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And only the president can give that order.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the attackers were in and out fast at each of the two locations -- sending extra "assistance" was unlikely to do anything '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Not my point, soldiers were dying on the ground, intelligence was there, and no help was given.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'irrelevant and wrong November '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'November, you are quite naive. I bet you believe in the tooth fairy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '3 soldiers were killed, request was asked for, and nothing supplied.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'all speculation'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems the the USa handled the situation properly'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_the_U.S._diplomatic_mission_in_Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why are you guys still trying to reason with the unreasonable?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the fact that you accept the testimony of an interested party as gospel makes you a dupe, November. You have no proof, all you have is someone's word. Someone whose job may be to cover the US's ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I just want to know why that happened, that's all. Look I admit we dont' know all the answer's yet. But my point is someone made a decision that I just disagree with when it comes to saving US soldiers and ambassadors lives'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I also happen to know that to do this, you can't just send the military in without the president's approval'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your point is all over the place.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, so what. So the president not giving his approval tells me that this as all as result of a intelop.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'One minute, Obama definitely left people behind to die and Tyrone Woods' words are gospel. Next minute, it's all "Maybe, maybe, maybe, I just want all the answers!".'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Your earlier point was Obama was a troop deserter, now it's just that "someone" made a decision you disagree with. Two quite different things.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Not that I expect you to realize that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well yeah, he did desert them if help was requested and he needed to give an executive order.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'How else would you define desert?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Look behind you, that is the point that just went straight over your head.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there were two separate terrorist attacks of short duration, each at a different locations, likely by the same terrorists -- the Libyan government was and is pro-USA  '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how about this scenario? The CIA or DIA, or ONI run an op in Lybia, then when their asses get caught in the wringer Obama is informed of the situation and he refuses to become officially involved.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I guess it depends upon how you look at it. I guess I just care about those people's lives and when they got into trouble, they were not helped. O was involved in the chain if it was military, which it looks like this seal was.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's hard to be against terrorism if you are officially involved in it yourself....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'far be for me to wish anyone to die, but when you sign up as a soldier that is one of the outcomes that you can expect.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Anaristos also spreading BS -- the attack was on Sep 11 or 9-11 (2012) -- the Benghazi attack was premeditated'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sure, but there's a certain honor in being a troop in that you can expect help when you ask for it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its not like we weren't able to help them over the span of 7 hours.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, I already said that it was premeditated. Pay attention.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Undercover terrorism doesn't count, you're on your own there.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'The article you quoted specifically said that the SEAL was in the CIA annex when the fighting started.  Requests were made via CIA channels, not military.  Assuming, of course, that it's true - FXN has a reputation for jumping on stories without doing a whole lot of fact-checking...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no need to send assistance if the first attack was over'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It doesn't mention the words CIA channels'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there were *two* *separate* brief attacks '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you know, history can repeat itself. The US ran a similar op in Chile.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Chile was flooded with "civilian" contractors who happened to be part of the Navy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the end result was that Allende was killed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, I guess it comes down to whose word you can trust. This SEAL team's leader or the CIA spokesperson. Still, doesn't seem right to me if people who are US troops who ask for help in a shit fight get denied at all turns.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tyrone Woods and Glen Goherty died as a result of a mortar attack at the CIA annex -- the attack was over in 15 minutes '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I still miss the point. You wanted the US to attack Libya?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'It mentions that requests were made of the "higher-ups at the annex" - who, because it was a CIA annex, I would assume were CIA personnel, not military.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Just wanted them to send help when they needed it and their lives depended upon it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, Zade. They were the targets. Which begs the question of why to mercenaries were operating in Libya. Once that is clarified we can proceed to attach blame to whomever we wish.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the four fatalities were part of the diplomatic mission in Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, sure.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'This wasn't an offensive mission taken out in another country. This was just defending a consolate which happened to be a target.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whether or not they were previously mercenaries is irrelevant'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'just out of curiosity, where do you get your information November?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah sure. no one in the  US was involved with what  was happening inLibya'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I mean, Obama probably knew the Ambassador. He picked him.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fox News, obviously.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, seriously, the only source November has cited insofar IS a Fox News article.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its hard to get an honest truth these days Twyst .. so many sources won't even cover this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, now we're on the "The mainstream media is in Obama's pocket" BS train.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you don't wonder why there isn't a simple answer?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Probably because we only know a few facts so far.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'more BS allusions from Anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'They could have said: X and Y were playing checkers in the Embassy with the Ambassador waiting his turn. Suddenly, with no apparent reason, the Embassy was attacked resulting in the death of the players and those observing the game.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that Anaristos may be a terrorist sympathiser'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'See, the only *facts* we know about are that people died, and approximately when.  Anything else is hearsay, he-said/she-said, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I just don't think without news sources covering this, we'll ever really know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'You have poor reading comprehension, don't you, Zade?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'again, the fact that we don't have a source that is reliable should tell you something, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'someone is covering someone else's ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '9-11 (2012) is a very apparent reason  -  the similar date to 9-11 2001'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Exactly, November - we will likely never know.  So don't you think that going around throwing accusations might be a bit premature?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, Zade. You think that grown ups like to do things based on numerology, go ahead.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok fine. But, you'd agree with me that it's not honorable to leave people to die when they requested help.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anaristis BS: "Suddenly, with no apparent reason, the Embassy was attacked .." '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'because a CIA spokesperson / director is affected by a policital climate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'I would agree that I am completely unqualified to make a determination of whether help should be sent or not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'As, I'd imagine, are you.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok so I think that's where we disagree fundamentally. As an American, if requests for help were asked for by US troops under attack then I'd want them to be rescured.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And I don't think I need a qualification for that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Zade. Here is another lesson for you, look "sarcasm" in the dictionary.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'September 11 2012 was was anniversary of September 11 2001 -- the Banghazi attack was premeditated'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It probably was.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'September 11 2012 was the anniversary of September 11 2001 -- the Banghazi attack was premeditated and deliberate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so what? You think they declare a holiday somewhere because of 9/11. Maybe the do. You just have to show me who is that celebrates 9/11 as a holiday.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'In a perfect world, sure - it sucks that people died, and it would have been nice for help to have been sent (assuming, still, that it was requested).  However, there might very well be extenuating circumstances that I have absolutely no knowledge of that might have precluded it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, Zade. It was premeditated and deliberate. It's purpose was to execute at least 2 people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they were not "executed" -- they were killed in the attack'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they were executed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'which means they were killed in the attack.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'BS Anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'whatever'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'have a nice day'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You know, being a US solder, I'd imagine that I'd gotten help. And only one news channel is covering this and they are probably protecting their sources for a reason.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'fox new is covering it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but they have a vested interest'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Still, without another source covering this, what else do we have to go by?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in blaming one party'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'specifically one person'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you can't have a diehard Redsox fan being the umpire in Yankee's games'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'conflicts of interest'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well their motives aside, where else would we learn Obama's true motives.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that get their news from Fox news get lies and misinformation'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They interviewed the father of the dead marine when he met Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And he though Obama was insincere and that Hillary's comments didn't seem to add up with the facts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't that seem pretty pathetic to you?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'taking advantage of a grieving father'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, but if there wasn't FXN covering this, no one would ever really know.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And I think the people have a right to know why O did what he did if all these sources are coming out saying so.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Nobody really knows *now*...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Faux news deliberately lies'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, so unless I start getting different news channels reporting on this with different sources'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Like a hard hitting question on Obama or some other person involved..'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama did not do anything wrong in regard to the Benghazi incidents'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but it should "sink" him'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It just doesn't look very good and it paints a picture of someone who just will let it happen'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama is to be commended and supported'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama did an excellent job in regard to the Benghazi incident'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Heh, you're entitled to your opinion. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if i were an American voter, i'd vote for Barack Obama 2012'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the 2012 USA presidential election, i endorse Barack Obama!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, like I've said time and time again, debates really aren't about facts. They're about opinions, and style. The way they come off to other people, the presentation.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama was and is an okay President'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sadly, with only one source here, that's all that we'll get - a one sided argument.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least Barack Obama was and is better than the Republican crap'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'See, that's where we disagree - I actually care about the facts.  And now that I know you don't, that explains soooo much of this whole rant.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Hehe, yep. I was trying to make a point on debating. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, now you're just covering your ass.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I was merely pointing out that people will by the FN line because it is, truly a debate about not facts. :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'November, you were BSing on debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're just desperate to find any dirt on Obama. You can't, so you make shit up.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Go back and look over time and time again, what I've said to you. About debates and facts.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Hey, if it's good enough for Romney...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No shit, thats why he 'won' the first debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Remember, November blames the Republicans' refusal to work with Obama on Obama, blames Obama for not being a strong enough leader to be able to sway the Republicans.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's not hard to find shit on obama. Or any US president. They are all murderers and terrorists.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Dont get me started on our CaC. I serve proudly, and it pisses me off when a CaC runs to Vegas when Benghazi happened, but is willing to be RIGHT there when the storm came. One of my brother in arms was killed no matter what branch he served. Pisses me off that we have a CaC who hates the military.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The lesser of two evils is still evil. Just because obama is better than the other guy, doesn't mean he's good.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'BS Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Specifically 1 or 2 republicans Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is a CaC?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'That's the beauty of it Yuna, he doesn't take actually believe any of the stupid shit he says, he's just immitating Republicans. I think he's practicing for a role.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Commander in Chief'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'look it up. Obama= CaC'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is in their best interest not to work with him November'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Your opinion, Zade, from an american view.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is CIC'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they should give advance warnings of attacks, just like they do for hurricanes!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think he's using CaC as an insult. The A is probably insulting.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'look at the debt ceiling debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The only honest debate we've really had tonight is Yuna and I coming together on how we can crack down on illegal voters: cheaper IDs.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that''
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(i endorse the lesser of the two evils) -- (er three evils, and Ron Paul does not stand a chance) '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'if you only knew what the A stood for for someof us.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, November. That's just the only issue on which you've been remotely sane.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'See the rest of us had an honest deabte, you just wasted people's time and insulted the President even if you were just joking around.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't see how he hates the military'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not about to send them on some goose chase in the desert'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'pretty good to veterans'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm actually a pretty moderate person. And Ixle, it may very well come out to be the case I argued. But probably not, since we have one source that only 1/2 the country would ever believe.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama definitely uses the military'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I have a simple world view. Anyone that kills someone is evil, unless they do it in self defense. Too simple, I know, but nobody has convinced me that killing does good. In any scenario.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Because it would all be about winning that debate in people's minds, did the President abandon troops that requested help?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'do you not see how he is tearing down the military? we are seeing cuts left and right. You may not see it and the media doens't report it, but it's still there'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In that world view, defending your home country on your own soil counts as self defense.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the military budget has increased year over year since Reagan'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'take it from someone who actually serves. Its not looking too good on our end.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'even under Obama'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You can choose to be a part of the solution or a part of the problem, even if faking you are still part of the problem. Honesty is paramount.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama supported and did not abandon the troops'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why shouldn't we be glad he's cutting spending on the military?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's pressuposing he is'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe all taxes should be devoted to the military since obviously 5000B is not enough.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How could you possibly think the U.S. military needs to stay at its current size?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And since the US president orders the military, he is killing a _lot_ of people. Many civilian.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, you need to mobilise the entire population for war, otherwise you can't conquer the world and enslave its people...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Sonshi has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republicans by bankrupting the USA (by blocking the raising of taxes on the rich) are mass-murderers and are killing a _lot_ of people.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol, anyways Fox and news and the media in general got the mobile WMD labs soo wrong, yet they will uncover the truth about Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'ever since he has taken office, every time a udget comes up, we cringe. That is the only time military spending is even noticed. Hell, some of us didn'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Mitt Romney intends to cut services for the non-rich and increase the killings of civilians'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'even get paid while we were deployed under this Pres. So our families at home while we were off fighting a war had to budget very hard on bare minimum. Very stressful on boths sides of the world.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, Obama is a bad guy for cutting spending on the military at a time when the U.S. is in a deep recession.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, he should devote ALL THE TAXES to the military! So you can have nice ships and helicopters and whatnot.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Yuna is a turncoat'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '"we don't have to worry about the poor in America, there is a safety net (which I intend to shred) for those people" - Mitt Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So the U.S. can be ready to go to war against the WORLD or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seriously, WHY does the U.S. need such a huge army?!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'there are so many 3rd world countries out there that is trying to overthrow our way of life and certain groups will do anything to disrupt it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps othe USA requires a huge army to protect the Vietnamese troublemakers and moles '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, for the love of cocksucking, you're one of THOSE idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless China, North Korea, Iran and and 5 other countries joined together and attacked the U.S. in a coordinated attack, there'd be no way for any country or coalition of countries to threaten the U.S...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because, first of all, the U.S. army? HUGE. 2nd of all: The U.S. has allies.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'I am not one of those idiots. Ive seen it first hand and almost got killed for fighting for my country. You dont know how damn good you have it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so the US was under attack?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i heard that Vietnam exported sleeper moles before during and after the fall of South Vietnam (which fell because of Vitnamese corruption)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You didn't almost get killed because the military budget has been slashed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And there existing people who hate the U.S. doesn't justify spending more on the military than the next 5 countries in the Top 10 PUT TOGETHER.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you didn't almost get killed because the US was under attack, the US was the aggressor.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'these Vietnamese sleeper moles are attempting to undermine the size of the USa military with verbal attacks on the internets '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'you dont call doing convoys and getting hit by two roadside bombs almost getting killed?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'A market, or a government?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did almost getting killed impair your ability to comprehend basic English?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never once questioned that you were almost killed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm questioning how that's relevant to anything.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Short of employing actual psychics, there was no way for Obama to prevent you almost getting killed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So how is it relevant that you almost got killed when trying to justify why the U.S: needs to spend trillions on the military?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I certainly call that almost getting killed, but you were carrying out an aggressive campaign in some country, you weren't defending the US. You should blame whomever sent you there for your almost demise.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well then why didn't he?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'obviously unfit to lead'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats the firs thing M. Romney is going to do'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Brb. Save some crazy for me, Tizar, November.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'hire 5000 psychics'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are obviously of the opinion that when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, the natives should have rolled over and played dead instead of defending their countries.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if the Iraquis and or Afghans had come over the US and attacked the US citizens would have done the same thing.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'all i ask for for our Pres to support us jsut a little bit more tha what he does. He is making cuts that are not beneficial to us at all. '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Im nat asking to support 100% of the budget to us at all. Other things needs to taken care of too.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and of course, he should take that money you need from school lunch programs, university subsidies, from health care and from the maintenance of the infrastructure, because none of those things are important.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anaristos is decribing the Mitt Romney Republican platform: "take that money .. from school lunch programs, university subsidies, from health care"  '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'from those poor idiots buying flat screens on credit cards while getting govermnent food stamps!"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's not hard to figure out, where else will the money come from?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Mitt Romney is likely to maintain the indrastructure require for the rich to remain filthy richerii'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Back. Apparently, I didn't miss much crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Plenty to go around...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'not really. Crazy is only how you take it.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, so your position is that rebuilding and maintaining the infrastructure is not essential.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Mitt Romney is likely to maintain the infrastructure required for the rich to be filthy rich'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Of all the short-sighted....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'America, the only country where the poor people think they are entitled to live like the rich.  You don't go to Africa and see those poor tribes with cell phones and flat screens do you?  Poor should live poor and i'd feel more sorry for them'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is what supposedly makes America great'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'every heard of Banana republics?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or better yet lived in one?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'the dept store?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'let them eat cake doesn't really work'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'never lived in a mall'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You duck as you hear Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler scream "TAMPON TAG!" and tosses a used tampon your way.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'either you are being provocative, i.e. trolling'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or ....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Mitt Romney should be Pres of the USA'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not because he would be good, but because he would be so sooo bad'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'tear the bandage off once and for all'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you just might get your wish, I just hope you don't start bitching when he shoves an umbrella up your ass :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think you're making the 'lets get to the cliff argument and go over it so we can get on' argument for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'll be long gone :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the one thing FXN didn't investigate is Romney's tax records'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'dude is obviously hiding something gargantuan'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but obviously no one cares'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I do'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i kinda feel the same of Obama gets elected again...everyone will finally shut up about how great he is when he fails another 4yrs'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, not the taxes, that's not important.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'only got voted in for his skin color...what a shame'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I just care if the US gets a insane president'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yes because being black is an advantage'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'in his case it was idiot'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'everyone knows that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'all 43 previous presidents would beg to differ'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the same people who have a hard on for Romney now, couldn't get it up for him 4 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Any sane person would say that skin color makes no difference'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Dirk, there is alot who voted to because they were black, or jsut to say they voted for a black guy to erase any type of racism they had.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol yeah he gained so many votes to assauge racism'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'if %95 of all black voters are voting for him and alot of college kids who thinks they are shoving it up "the man"'s ass by voting for him as well....theres actually a smaller percentage NOT voting for him bc of his skin color'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'pure bs'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he is losing the south by 22 pts according to gallup'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'See, that's what I don't understand - Obama's handed a huge, steaming pile of s*** economy, and people are offended that he wasn't able to single-handedly turn it around in 4 years?  Do you honestly think that McCain would have done better?  What was it about McCain's platform that would have led you to believe so?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'how much experience do you really think obama has/had?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'he barely worked as a senator'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he has 4 yrs of running the country'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'didnt even show up for half his meetings'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Wow, kinda like Romney's stint as governor.  Go fig.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Fixing the US (and EU) economy will probably take at least 20 years. If it can be done at all.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Exactly, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney himself said 8-10 years'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'plus the four Obama has had'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Right, but convince the average voter of that is about as hard as convincing them that oil is traded on the global market and the president can't affect gas prices.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I just despise the fact it was skin color that got him elected thats all Im saying...not a racist thing either when its true.  The movie Obomas America 2016 hit on this exactly what I already knew'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how is that true dirkdiggler'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'have you by any chance been black in America?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'go watch the movie and you'll save me alot of hot air'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I have, its no fun'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but that's just what it is, hot air'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'whatev I hate politics  I'm tired just get this election over so everyone can get back to living off my paycheck taxes etc'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'got the most votes in history inspite of being black'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'got most votes BECAUSE he was'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler slaps Twyst on the head and says, "DOH!"
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if being black was such a voter draw'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why aren't all the president of the US black?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Myself, I make no claims one way or the other, 'cause I can't read even one mind, much less the mind of every voter...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I remember going out to vote last election and a serious crack head was in line twitching out and asking "this wher ya go to vote fo Oboma?!"  if a damn crackhead got up to vote and my lazy stoner friends didn't.....welll u see'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Can I just say something that will plese both sides? This is one reason why I serve. Where else can you express your TOTAL opinion without any major backlash?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'serve?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in the military'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'werd'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler enthusiastically high-fives Tizar!
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I can never take "reverse racism" enthusiasts seriously'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'cuz its true?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it takes some serious cognitave dissonance'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'how racist would it be if %95 of all white voters were voting for ROmney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '95% of black voters voted for Clinton too'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'and black voters were actually split on the candidates?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it has nothing to do with race'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'lol they always vote for walfare :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they comprise 15% of the population'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Did I miss a comparable statistic somewhere saying that most blacks voted for Obama?  Link, please?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'most blacks did vote for Obama, no doubt about it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'but really why are the republicans villanized and portrays as "the evil rich white men"'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the percentage of white voters swayed by race is likely much higher than that for blacks, simply because black overwhelmingly vote democrat'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'maybe because they are?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'LOL'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'smart rich white men...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, which party is the one advocating austerity?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'doesnt make them evil'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and only at the expense of everyone else, no taxes on the rich please'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'why shouldnt we all pay the same tax percentage anyway?  The rich would STILL be paying more'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is evil to want more money than you will ever really need while people starve'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I think the rich are already getting taxes out the ass if u think about what already gets taken out of a middle class paycheck'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because that's far from optimum, and would crash your economy faster than we can replace you'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if the rich were truly being taxed out the ass as you put it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'than the wealth imbalance would not have accelereated so much'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'No, because those that are truly rich are the ones that aren't earning a paycheck - they're living off their investments, and being taxed at the capital gains rate.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or the treasury would have made more money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler lets off a real rip-roarer ... a greenish cloud envelops Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler!
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'thats what i've resorted to :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'you made me do it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler sighs.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I'm just a biology major....screw politics....ima go get high'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'so then you should support Democrats who want to legalize pot right?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I was talking about crack....I'm about to smoke a 7gram rock....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'jk....yea legalize pot would be nice :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm OK with legalizing pot. There really isn't a strong argument against it that I can see. I think smoking pot is bad for you like smoking a cigarette (different reasons) but its kind of foolish that people hold on to this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler nods at Romney on November.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'lets not even open that debate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'On the debate channel? Never! :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'I did my senior project research paper on that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'theres no debate , its 2012'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'we've won that arguement for years.....when they gonna just do it already'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'where did Yuna go? I miss that person.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'USamnericans are unable to handle legalised Cannabis - they tend to be compulsive-obsessive drug-addicts'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'I will say this. The legalization of pot would cut down on alot of DUI's.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ixle boggles at the concept.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Driving under the influence including marijuana will be a part of any legalization bill passed.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: '..and that argument works so well for alcohol...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'hHave you ever driven high?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Of course I have'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'I find it hard to drive without being high tbh.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'did you just feel like cruisin and just a little paranoid?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Alcohol, you just get sloppy.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'The point is, get caught driving under the influence of marijuana and it will be treated like alchohol. I can almost guarantee that.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Regardless of how well I think I drive stoned.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The legalization of pot is likely to increase DUI (if a roadside method of detecting THC usage is found) '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'and I agree with that 100%. Treat is like alcohol.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The legalization of pot is likely to increase the number of vehicular accidents and train wrecks'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Correct, and in lieu of that it will be based on officers judgement and followed up by a UA or other method of testing. Not innocent until proven guilty.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there was a train wreck in the USA caused by a locomotive engineer high on THC'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'airline pilots high on THC -- there's a nightmare scenario for passengers and those on the ground'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Yeah, you'll get no argument from me that it shouldn't be regulated use when legalized.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: '...and taxed like crazy...:-P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Depending on what those taxes go to, and what the growing laws are, you probably won't get any argument there either.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'IT departments are unlikely to hire computer programmers or systems analysts addicted to THC'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'THC doesn't have a physical addiction'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'That is why, being in the miltary I know Ill never get to smoke anything until I get out. Unless they find a way to test for it instantly and be able to tell wether you are driving high or not.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong -- THC is addictive psychologivally'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'heavy THC users are also liars and unable to determine when they are incompetent'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'are you saying THC has withdrawal symptoms?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the old THC varients relax the inhibitions to tell blatant lies -- and the modern THC varients cause extreme paranoia'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so no withdrawal symptoms'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when THC becomes a psychological crutch, there is addiction, regardless of whether there is physical addiction'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the same argument can be made for twinkies'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'heavy THC users mix Cannabis and tobacco -- nicotine is addictive and indirectly results in Cannabis addition by association'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you're not wrong, but its irellevant'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'twinkies addiction may be removed by a healthy diet lifestyle '
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's not physically addictive'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'THC addiction can be removed by a healthy breathing lifestyle'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'sex is not physically addictive, yet there are sexaholics'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is just modern psychologists/psychiatrists milking people for money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aardwolf is not physically addictive, yet you suckers keep on playing here'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'addiction means you can't stop even if you want to'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yeah? -- try to stop playing Aardwolf'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the operative words being if you want to'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'quit aardwolf many times for multiple years'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"the heart is deceiful, above all things" - Jeremiah'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and yet you are here again'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'haha, I'm not going to quit to prove a point'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the only reason I play Aardwolf is my job simultaneously puts me in places with terrible bandwidth and plenty of free time'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'gotta have something to fill the time'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that and it is fun of course'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the fuck?! Fresh off of the "I'll just pretend to clean these soup kitchen pots" bullshit, Paul Ryan turned another photo op into a bout of bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'He's a politician...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When supporters at a Republican "victory office" were packing away supplies for Hurricane Sandy relief work too quickly, possibly too fast for there to be any work left to do once Ryan got there, they were told to slow down.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In the end, they just kept 6 boxes behind and pulled the mout when Ryan appeared in order to pose for photos.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'This is news how? 100% of campaigns do this since ww2 :)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'That's no different than News outlets reporting how the President (and Gov. Romney) both "stopped campaigning" to "monitor" the Hurricane'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The news is not that  they're doing photo ops, it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'What are they supposed to be doing? Parting the storm?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The news is not that  they're doing photo ops, it's how brazenly Ryan will lie to our faces.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure my comment goes for brazen lies to'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'too!'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seriously, telling people to work slower in order to help victims of Hurricane Sandy so Ryan will g et his photo op?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'yeah it's messed up. I'm just saying it's not surprising. Tinada's right - everyone does it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Who believes in that kind of picture anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the hurricane was a blessing. it created new jobs that'll clean up and repair all the shit that got destroyed ;)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The same people who believe in Ryan's lies?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods quietly to himself.  What a wacko.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Dagnir that's ridiculous. If I go around smashing windows it doesn't mean I've helped the economy b/c more people will have to make new windows and install them'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I can't blame you when apparently nobel prize laureates believe in the broken window fallacy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it was supposed to be a joke'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah...I knew that. *bonk self*'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Wasn't it Krugman that wrote a piece about that some weeks ago?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I try very hard to not read his stuff'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and apparently he believes that a bit of war/disasters/whatever is good'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at Tasty Tipro.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it's not very hard to avoid his writings, but that was close to a new bottom point for nobel winners, I think'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'That's Keynsianism for you. Real wealth though is not just recouperating what was lost, but by using existing capital to increase wealth. The capital still exists whether or not the disaster happens, and the only question is whether it's put to use getting us new things, or put to use getting us back things that are lost'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'A disaster might create demand, but war certainly didn't help the South after the Civil War. Or Russia after WW2'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'yeah. I read the NY Times though. Just not his section :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you're confusing wealth and production...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a disaster reduces wealth, but boosts production. In a liquidity trap, that can return the economy to full potential, which can result in a net increase in wealth.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, there's no need for a disaster to create jobs... it would make more sense to just build more stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah, I agree it may boost production, putting to use previously idle capital. It's just not a net gain really, b/c you spend that capital recouperating what you lost, and then demand drops back off again. Therefore you have less capital, and yet the same stuff following a disaster'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'an output gap of a trillion decreasing slowly over the course of a decade or more adds up to quite a bit.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'thing is, if it removes the output gap, it does create more than the initial boost'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'By output gap you mean difference between potential production and actual production?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'businesses tend to expand on the basis of expected demand, which in itself creates more demand'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Business can create demand (see Apple and the iPod) but do you think that's the case for the kind of production involved after a disaster? Does a company gearing up for more construction create more construction demand?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you have more demand for construction materials, replacements of inventory, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'translates into more wages paid, which increases consumer demand'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for comparison, look at the experience of recent european austerity and east asian stimulus...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'That's true about the more wages paid -> more demand I think, but there's the question about how much of the current active capital is being diverted to recouperate from the loss. I believe that many companies will just change from one project to another, hiring a few workers, but mainly just changing their focus'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and if the disaster recovery is just using (at least mostly) previously active capital, it wouldn't be making that big of an economic boost'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'And I'm also not sure the current European problems are from austerity. It also has to do with an availability of capital due to high interest rates resulting from record levels of borrow and spend. I know in Greece there are a lot of otherwise viable businesses who need seasonal loans, but are unable to obtain them at any price b/c there simply is no money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Banks are trying to deleverage, and the central banks are being forced to raise interest rates in order to sell their debt. No more money flowing through the system. That's a more systemic problem than drawing down gov't spending. B/c more gov't spending will increase problems with the debt, thus exacerbating the original problem'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weird bunch of news tonight: France authoroties hit Google with a $1.3bn claim in content row'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Facebook start selectively enforcing ban on political speech'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Eurozone unemployment hits new high'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama losing to Romney in Wisconsin early vote, admits Mayor'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'newspaper circulation sinks to new low'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iowa joins Texas in threatening to arrest UN election monitors'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jill Stein arrested resupplying protestors opposed to Keystone XL pipeline'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Why?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why what?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What is dangerous about election monitors?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they weren't invited and could interfere with the process, i guess'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada sits down and thinks deeply. 
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably a tit-for-tat response to the imposition of all kinds of new voting regulations that the states didn't pass'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'that makes the third time Jill Stein has been arrested'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's getting accustomed to it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a sign of someone not afraid to stand up for what they believe in'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'anyone know much about her? I'm having trouble finding much about her besides wikipedia'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'green party candidate'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'green party is what the democrats dream to be if they weren't taken over by globalists and commies'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd never vote for them, but I at least respect their integrity'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlike the two 'mainstream' parties'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which are both dodgier than a $17 note'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, it's a sign of someone (1) not afraid to stand up for what they believe in, (2) not afraid to break the law, (3) not competent to govern their own actions, or simply (4) a career criminal...repeated arrests doesn't signify anything as it can be any of the above'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct, don't think she's been charged with anything'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then she's been detained and hasn't been arrested'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arrested but not charged'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'can't be arrested without a charge'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can here'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's anti-establishment, and they don't like that. Whatever next? slaves leaving the plantation?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'of course it's quite delusional to run for president when you received 1/100th the votes in your own state's elections :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt she's running to win'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so she's just wasting everyone's money and time'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hardly, she'll be getting her party's policies out there and known, garnering support'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's a difference between a candidate and an activist'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'she's just wasting everyone's time and money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'not necessarily... even if she doesn't win, if she can get a significant portion of the votes, that raises the power of the green party'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depending on her level of support in the election dictates her funding subsidy next time around'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's very relevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I repeat, 1/100th of the votes in her own state'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are she'll poll 1% US wide'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it will *HURT* the party's status'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I didn't say that she was being successful... just that winning isn't everything'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, so again, I'll repeat. she's WASTING everyone's money and time'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'her and her supporters would disagree'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as many other reasons to run as you can pretend there are, her running does not qualify'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If a no chance candidate is greatly superior to candidates with a chance to win, you may still want to vote for the hopeless loser.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'this is why you ought to have instant runoff voting...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is why I started out by declaring her DELUSIONAL'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think Obama's wasting everyones' time and money'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..since there is no overwhelming virtue in supporting the lesser of two evils'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'where's nader this year? :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the system is pretty poisonous as it is, why would you want to make it more so by explicitly sidelining any possible third party candidates?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'she's not even sideline, she's 100 miles from the field'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Likewise you might argue that Ron Paul's campaign was a great success, even though he finished..hm..distant 3rd or something?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, not relevent'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I think this sums it up well: [31 Oct 15:45:51] (Debate) Saric: 'anyone know much about her? I'm having trouble finding much about her besides wikipedia''
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'because lots of people were made aware of his views'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know the process for getting on the ballot there, but over here candidates have to pay a sizeable cash deposit to get on the ballot which they lose if they poll less than 5%'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'curious'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, tinada...but his actually accomplished stuff...hers IS NOT'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, ron paul actually came in 9th in 2008'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada goes, "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'obama with 69.5M, mccain with 60M, Nader with 739k, Bob Barr with 523k, Chuck Baldwin with 200k, Cynthia McKinney with 162k, Write In (misc) with 113k, Alan Keys 48k, Ron Paul 42k'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Donald Duck got 7 votes :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he was beaten by good ol' misc??'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You rapidly nod twice at Sonshi, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'granted there were another dozen people below him'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'is "god" there as a write in?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada points excitedly at Barack Obama!
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'man, all those republican primary candidates, and the one sane guy was also the only one who never got a surge in support...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'republicans get surges in support?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, and in 2008, "None of These Candidates" got 6,267 votes in Nevada where it's an option :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in the primary season, it seemed like all the not-Romneys got a go before they finally settled on Romney'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps they should just do away with the house'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'run everything from state'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and no, not one person voted for God :('
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'jesus did get votes tho'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how about allah?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'christ?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bah, that's part of christopher :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'haha'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you think Obama is disappointed with the damp squib hurricane Sandy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I just got power an hour ago, was without for around 41 hours'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'couple of days off work?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for some people, it's not a real hurricane unless a few thousand die or something'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well technically it was a tropical storm'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, kids were off mon/tue/wed, not sure about tomorrow yet'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it certainly wasn't the 'major disaster' it was being branded in the media'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot of collateral damage, but will benefit the economy in the long term'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it was level 1 hurricane...millions without power, some expected to remain without power for another week or more'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was downgraded as it made landfall'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, that's what hurricanes do'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'katrina didn't'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the storm surge came while it was very much a cat 1...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure it did...otherwise it would still be blowing'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'storms start, grow, peter out and end'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's good not too many people died'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but pretty typical of media sensationalism'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was hearing tales of idiots going out in 3ft and growing of water trying to move their damned cars'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a lot of the media was also headquartered right where it landed.  It's kind of like the news coming to them'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's news because it hit a major city, even more so that that city is New York'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not saying that it shouldn't be news, but if it had hit a couple hundred miles south, I'm not sure it would have been considered quite as 'severe''
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't be so prominant if it hit a third world city'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder if the U.N., or simply any other countries are offering aid'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'health insurance companies in the UK are creating second tier of cheaper consultants'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, got texts from american express and bank of america telling me of their emergency benefits :P'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'usually a bunch of countries offer aid in situations like this.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it is also usual that any aid is seldom mentioned by the recipient...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might be of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_sandy#Meteorological_records_set_by_Hurricane_Sandy'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Al Gore was on the news claiming that Sandra was a result of global warming'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'great, Manbearpig, that'll be the global warming that hasn't happened in the last 16 years, will it?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '7yr old boy beaten to death by mother after failing to learn the qu'ran'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'those virgins have to come from somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it made the news, it's horrid because it's religion, the media don't bat an eyelid for people beaten to death for disagreeing with the establishment'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'sure they do - Rodney King'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he wasn't disagreeing with the establishment'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was guilty of the offence of being black without due care and attention'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police also beat people up for being disabled without due care and attention, having an epileptic fit without a permit, and being in hypoglaemic shock while underage'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they're caring people, those police, public servants that work to protect and serve the public'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he was also guilty of beating the crap out of a bunch of police officers while hopped up on pcp'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who he? rodney king?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he wasn't being stopped for the hell of it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty clear he was a bad-un, but that's besides the point, really'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he royally fucked up other cops before the stop that was recorded (and he wasn't always losing the fight that was recorded)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it was hardly a one-sided beatdown for no reason other than being black'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately for them, the police need to be held to a far higher standard'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup, they got caught up in the moment, they went too far'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but they didn't do differently than much of the public would in the situation'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much good as peacekeepers if they're kicking the shit out of someone though'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you say so'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do, they shouldn't have done it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's that kind of thinking that got us stuck with spoiled brats thinking they can do anything they want.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, you'd rather be raped'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'cops are bad...get rid of them, see how well you fare :-)'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get rid of the bad cops, keep the good ones'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they were the good ones'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you get rid of the cops, it means the soldiers step in to fill the void.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cops are already being militarised'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'don't worry, OCP will handle it'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why they taser you for not showing papers'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'cops tasered a blind guy who was carrying a cane'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, but the difference is that they still care at least a little bit about the populace.  With a soldier, if they have to tell you to not do something twice you're gonna get shot trying to do it a third time.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, that was here Vost'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost nods.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, i just heard that Iran is claiming to have created Hurricane Sandy.....'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also claim to have nuclear capability'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, was reported on the Huffington Post, that makes it somewhat suspect'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything put out on mainstream media should be taken with a pinch of salt'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, now that I'm looking at it, it looks like a Syrian group is claiming Iran did it, so meh'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking of HP, Times Warner canned a Jessie Ventura documentary on the TSA'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so that may be true'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Jessie Ventura is strange'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I think that's putting it lightly'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'candy corn sucks'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea what that is'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you're lucky, then'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's up there with peeps, chocolate covered cherries, and cadbury eggs'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'candy corn is basically cooked sugar.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I thought caramel was cooked sugar'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, but I can't stand candy corn'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it is, there's like three different things you can do to sugar all using the same process.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, well, I have to admit, sugar is awesome, but not candy corn'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though I understand that it looks cool, and is great for designs and whatnot, but as far as taste goes...'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's much better than chocolate covered cherries.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, that's difficult'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'people will tell me that they loved it as a kid, and that it's because it's really sweet, etc.  But I didn't even like it as a kid'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'some with the chocolate covered cherriest'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'minus the t'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm liking chocolate covered peanuts'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I like those'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently they're looking to hand control of regulation of the internet to the UN'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'involves taxing inter-country traffic and tying unique user id's to each packet'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I heard something about an internet tax or something'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone keeps saying NO, but this is the UN, they're not going to listen because they're not elected'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'how could they force people to pay?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they can't.  The UN is not an enforcement body.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't force people to pay, they force the transport infrastructure corporations to pay'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the only way UN regulations get applied is if the member nation decides to follow them.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well of course member states will follow them'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's one of the things people don't like about the US, because when we don't agree with the UN we just ignore what they say.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is one of the big supporters of the plan'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he doesn't like a free internet'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I never get around to working out exactly how corrupt the UN is'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like all control freak administrations before him, he wants to know everything you d'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do and everything you say'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah. i've also heard he's a gay secret muslim'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I expect it's some sort of weighted average of member nations'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've heard he's inept'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Do any of you believe he is religious at all?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I heard he's in cahoots with the Republicans to hand them the election.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's probably not religious now'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think it's irrelevant'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, he was fairly active in his church before hand, you probably remember the whole row over that'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's as relevent as romney being a mormon'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'apparently he went to the church for 20ys without noticing what the pastor was saying?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'of course I don't usually remember what the pastor talked about last week'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grabs a selkie's halo away and flees into the night.. how cruel!
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada circles his hands above his head trying to construct a halo.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't Obama set a new world record with the recent batch of debates?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Barack Obama.
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3 90 minute televised debates without a single policy?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lowest neilson ratings?'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neilson ratings are naff'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more people were watching the NHL than the debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'He did talk about his goals, at least, and he did complain about Romney's lack of details.'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I dont' know, I thought they were the most watched debates'
T3/r7/2012-10-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should rename them "nelson ratings" and go "HAHA!"'