T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: '"your mom went to college!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you reject reality - drugs ? still subjective reality - reality is where you live imo ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'reality is only through your eyes '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not necessarily true'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'some things like numbers are objective - inless ur double vision is in play ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'eyes can be easily fooled'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ur grasp of objective reality is ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there is no such thing as objective reality'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'all reality is by definition subjective'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'surely the number 1 is objective ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but it is unknowable'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'because you cannot prove non existance in a universe ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Descartes did a pretty good job of tearing down objective reality, his subsequent rebuilding of it I find unsatisfactory'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so how would you cut the uncutable then ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sounds like sophism'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wana flesh that out mate ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm just trying to say, there is no definitive reality'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we all just agree on an accepted reality to get the ball rolling so to speak'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'accepted , nice going - I contend that numbers are in fact objective until you go to count something '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I can buy that'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'somewhat of a tuatology  though - don't involve humans and objective reality exists ? - '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'appreciate you going slow for me '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sorry i don't understand your question'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'don't involve humans?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unless you involve humans (who are prone to subjective perception) objective reality exists '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but doesn't it have to be perceived? or whats the point'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that we are unable to experience it (presumably) that it exists at all is a revolution in thought ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm not claiming its revolutionary'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'have you ever heard of the two slit experiment?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I am saying theoretical phyisics is based on that premise '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no - describe pls ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i heard slit'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler wildly high fives the air, looking very foolish -- very foolish indeed.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is pretty involed'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: '2 slits 2 cup'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if any of the brains trust are on n want to direct this - I'm all ears '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'doh!   2 slits 1 cup'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I don't link - soz no proxy atm '
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'will look up later though - ty !'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'np'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Michigan Engineering researchers have figured out a way to "pressure-cook" algae for as little as a minute and transform an unprecedented 65 percent of the green slime into biocrude which can then be refined into gasoline, diesel and other chemicals.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Nature does it in millions of years, we will do it in mere minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gasoline made from algae costs about $20 per gallon, so it will still be a few years before it becomes marketable.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Renewable nonrenewables? That's incredible'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Seriously, not facetiously'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'biodiesel from algae costs about $17 a gallon right now. :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i wonder if the rate of production of biodiesel can keep up with the rate of consumption'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not saying it can't, I just don't know'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I also wonder what affects water distribution would have on biodiesel production'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it has been estimated that if we used 1/10th of the open land in arizona to produce algae...it would produce enough algae to make 5x the fuel we currently consume.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and the water usage?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You can use any kind of water, including saltwater to grow algae.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'although, i'd think that they'd be able to recycle a lot of the water used'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so then you'd have to locate the farms near the ocean?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'They have farmed salmon, they can farm algae too I imagine'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or have access to a dirty water source...lots of them in arizona.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'convert the algae into oil, put it in the pipelines, and send off to the refineries....'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Anyways, the fertilizers used to grow corn for ethanol runs off into the rivers causing algae blooms. Using the algae there could counteract the dead zones that are popping up as a result of the over abundance of algae'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure they can use just any old type of algae'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'there are "dead zones" b/c the algae takes a lot of the o2 out of the water'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'regardless of what happens though, algae is our future.....even the US Military has started to use jet fuel based on algae for operations.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, well, not exactly, the decay of the algae is what takes the o2 out'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'what makes algae so special?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Ah, thanks Razkin. Didn't know that'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'algae is 100x more efficient at making biofuels compared to corn.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'look up eutrification (sp?)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the only reason corn based ethanol is so cheap right now is because of govt subsidies, which in turn raise the price of food.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would rather spend research money on algae biofuels than corn ethanol.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree, actually'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though they also have biofuel plants that break down animal byproducts and whatnot'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It's "eutrophication"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'had to look it up'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they're not super efficient, but it seems to me that a lot of that goes to waste, and should be reclaimed even if it only produces a small amount fuel'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, there is a biorefinery in missouri that turns turkey and chicken feathers, intestines and parts into bio-oil.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I couldn't remember how it was spelled, just how it was pronounced  :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it produces about 1000 barrels a day right now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, that's actually the one I was thinking about  :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I read about it somewhere, thought it was a pretty good idea'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I also think about places like las vegas where a lot of food gets thrown out, you'd think they'd be able to convert that'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They hope to ramp up production to 50,000 barrels if they can get a grant from obama....but obama would rather fund solar companies that go out of business after getting $500 million in federal grants.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'solar and wind are silly, at least in terms of replacing our current energy sources'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'certain types of solar make sense, but we cannot currently compete with china when it comes to actually building the solar cells....the chinese can do it much cheaper right now...it makes no sense to build them in the US unless you put tariffs on chinese imports.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, and I"m not saying that those types of alternative energy don't have a place and a use, I jsut don't think it's going to go far in replacing oil as our source of energy'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but actual wind turbines and solar concentrated power plants work quite well and produce power at around 5 cents kwh'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'an american wind turbine research company is building 7 megawatt wind turbines now...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they also take up a lot of land'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at least the current ones do'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not an issue in some places, but in others, it becomes an issue'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, so do coal power plants. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not as much as a wind turbine farm does'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1 acre per 7 megawatt wind turbine'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh, and las vegas does recycle all that food waste.....it is turned into a liquid slop and fed to 2000 hogs that become bacon :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'those are probably the best fed hogs on the planet.....lobster, crab, fruits and veggies, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'China has found 25 trillion cf of natgas in shale formations.  They just leased 20 new blocks of land to oil companies to find more.  83 companies bidded on the new leases.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The last B-52 delivered to the US Air Force has reached 50 years old......and they are still in use to drop big bombs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the news, people?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's a series of stories explaining recent events you might be interested to know about. :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hurrah!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sandy toll still rising, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like the normal: looting via twitter in ny, race tightening elsewhere, first lady rally michelle gets people worshipping obama as a god, disney buys lucasfilms to dodge higher taxes next year'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'romney pulls ahead in colorado, commentators think Gary Johnson might hold sufficient voting power to tweak outcome in some tossups'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, on a more serious note.  Shnuck's supermarkets are doing a triple-coupon event.  Between the advertised sale price and this 3x coupon deal, you can get all sorts of stuff for free.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and.... birth rate hits all time low, 40.7% of babies born to unmarried women, but we knew that women these days were dykes'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we went there, bought $100 of groceries for like $33.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'boobies'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sorry, can't buy boobies in the grocery store.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure you can, just offer $100'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'can't, spent that on groceries.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'supermarket prices can be quite inflated... at one store nearby, there's stuff, like bottles of pasta sauce which go for 3 normally, but every few weeks they go on sale for 1.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and, really, would you trust a $66 pair of boobies?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'boooobies'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the real price is 1. 3 is for people who don't pay attention, or have such high income that a few dollars is worth as much as toilet paper to them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'go get a shale oil job.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and coupons are for those who want to be Jon Pinette bait (...get out of the line!)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, just because a store can put an item on sale for XX doesn't mean that they're making a profit selling at at that price...the term "loss leader" applies often at supermarkets (not that some items don't have great markups tho)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'stores rotate their losses.  By keeping some items high, they can just give away others with no real impact on their bottom lines.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'put french onion dip on sale for less than you pay for it, but make up for that by selling the chips to go with it, as an example'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'west virginia, ohio, pennsyvania, texas, north dakota, montana, arkansas, oklahoma all have known shale oil deposits, and some are booming, and the others will be booming soon.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'prices of at least some items are inflated well above their marginal cost, though... no need for loss leaders on those. At least not the loss part'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's slightly amusing to me how they inflate the prices of some items slowly, increasing the retail price, while the sale price remains the same...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well they ARE a business, not a food pantry...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and I've noticed that sometimes they slowly increase the price of some brands of pasta, then introduce a new, cheaper, brand of the same quality, and phase out the previous one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cycle then repeats.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'inflation!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation is way higher than the government rate'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'suuure'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've changed the way it's measured at least twice in order to suppress it'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nicely asks Tigernuts to be more quiet.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'inflation is a myth.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation by the 1980 measure is around 8%'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'People are only confused if you include energy, food and such in the prices'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sorry that we use cars instead of horse drawn carriages now...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the food supermarkets sell you all comes from other businesses, so if some products just aren't selling they aren't going to invest more in them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why, we should never recalibrate our measures, instead, we keep track of the current prices of hand-crafted stone tools!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Also, If beef becomes too expensive, you will switch to mincemeat. When mincemeat becomes too expensive, you switch to dog food (possibly..I hear it's mostly grain nowadays..), hope dog food never becomes too expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'recalibrating is fine, calibrating deliberately to show a preferable trend is not'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and when everyone buys mincemeat instead of beef, obviously the right thing to do is to replace beef with mincemeat in the cpi'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'inflation is good for debtors'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'every time you recalibrate something, everyone screams bias. bah'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and despite outward appearances, nothing is really ever stable.  Newer technology comes around, ingredients (and ingredient quality) changes, shortages occur, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come off it, sonshi, foot is up 60% over 5 years, energy is up 200% of 5 years, fuel is up 150% over 5 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a lot more than 2% a year'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'foot is up over 60%, oh the irony'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'food, sorry'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the price of the food items I buy has barely changed in the last 7 years in the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'raisin bran is still cheap....hasnt gone up much in 5 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You can argue about the hedonice formulas, certainly. If computers become 30% quicker and 10% more expensive, how do you measure that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation is a measure of the increase in money needed to maintain a set standard of living'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can blame the increase in food costs on using food to make fuel...stop doing that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Can anyone actually give a website showing real measures of inflation for certain goods over the last X years? I bet the Fed does it or the Dept of Commerce. Would help this discussion a little bit'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'different people buy different things... if the stuff you buy has doubled or whatever, it doesn't mean that the inflation measure is flawed. It's not your personal measure...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'corn ethanol is bad for your health.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's the billion price index, by MIT...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'any type of alcohol is bad for your health.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://bpp.mit.edu/'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if it weren't, you wouldn't get drunk off it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'alcohol is not bad for your health, making it from corn to run your damn vehicle is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'feed the damn corn to cows so that I can have a low priced ribeye again, damnit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'shadowstats has some funny calculations, but I'm pretty certain they are quite wrong too'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wrong kind of corn'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'less accurate on inflation, that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their inflation measures are spot on'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'dammit, the map on that site is so small you can't even click on my country without zooming.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'riz, didn't I see you bitch the other day that cows are only supposed to eat grass and not corn?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've seen similar studies for equivalent historic measures in the Uk and they  come out much the same'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Now! Grouping restrictions! Famous rule, popular reason for leaving some years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the bpp site, that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'mis :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, I prefer grass fed beef, but finished on corn, ie the last 2 weeks of their life.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Shadowstats has interesting unemployment info though'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but I also like corn flakes damnit, :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'd rather trust MIT's BPP than some flaky site...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but regardless, 40% of the corn grown going to ethanol cannot be a good thing when it comes to food prices.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should stick to corn growing for food'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, just what we need, a bitter bitch in the white house :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'err, mis :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'looks like we have a Hillary supporter :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'food commodity prices tend to affect poor countries more. Rich countries usually can't be bothered because the prices of the underlying commodity is an insignificant part of the price of the finished products there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You grin evilly at him.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hilary would make a poor president'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I suspect Hillary Clinton would be better than the two most recent presidents.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and corn is good for the environment.  You can make biodegradeable plastics from it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone who thinks killing 100s of innocent people with drones in a country you're not at war with is FUNNY.... shouldn't be in a position of power, ... or a member of the human race'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, should stick to random missile attacks on embassies of countries you're not at war with.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or pharmaceutical plants'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should stick to self defence, who knows, you might make a few less enemies that way'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that would only work if we had an immigration policy other than "come on in, plenty of room here for ya!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who needs to worry about defence when you're invincible!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news for you: you're not'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I see some estimates have negative net immigration from Mexico in 2012'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Looks like Tigernuts is lying again. Time to let everyone know!
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if I recall, that's only been the trend for the past 1-few years.  It started, I believe, when the illegals came hear looking for work, couldn't find any, and then coyoted back to the motherland.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Last time I checked the eroei on the ethanol conversions was pretty disastrous'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how did alabama's strict illegal immigration law work out for them?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although the profit earned by some companies (after a truckload of federal subsidies) was quite nice'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It would make more sense to import brazilian ethanol made from sugar by Shell oil company than it would be to keep using corn to make it in the US....it is a damn giveaway to farmers.  Instead of just giving them more money to farm which would be cheaper, we make laws to prevent the importation of ethanol to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, at least we're not paying farmers to NOT farm anymore!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Actually, we still do that.....it is called CRP'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Or you could allow some more pipelines to be built/oil fields developed and get your energy without needing subsidies (and without raising worldwide food prices)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in a climate where dependance on foreign oil is increasingly seen as a bad thing, how would this make more sense?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'CRP, the conservation reserve program...it pays farmers a little money to NOT farm....but now it makes more sense to grow corn to sell to ethanol refineries instead and get the $1.00 a gallon tax gimmie'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We also have a limit on how much brazilian ethanol can be exported to the US, any more than that and there is a $1 tariff per gallon on it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'corn prices are at record prices now because of the ethanol demand, and the overseas demand of american corn.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even though most of it is GMO corn.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The avg starting pay of a worm roughneck in Texas is currently $24 an hour.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I was making more than that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'closer to 32'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'and that was green.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'roughnecking is demanding work, and dangerous'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jury nullfication is extremely important. Hands up anyone who doesn't know what it is?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Thats why I don't do it anymore'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'jury nullification is a two edged sword'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'sure kept me fit tho.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Gate guards are making $100 to $250 per day.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's something the establishment are trying to do away with'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is reason by itself to protect it'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it really depends TN'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on what'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'on whether you trust the average citizen to do the right thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i trust 12 average citizens to, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'do you trust 300 million citizens to elect the right thing?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you're a liberal'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'name calling gets us nowhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, abe, but the people suffer for lack of knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and being a liberal is not a bad thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas is estimated to be producing around 3 million barrels of oil per day by 2020, more than twice the closest producer of north dakota at 1.4 million barrels by the same time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in most cases it is, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Yo momma!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'do the people on juries not suffer for lack of knowledge?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can do'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I personally think juries should be dropped.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst rapidly nods twice at Tinada, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can guarantee you 99.99% of jurors aren't aware of jury nullifications'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'get rid of the electoral college also.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'juries are protection against an authoritarian state'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what about juries in the deep south in the 1950's?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I for the most part agree with you, but they are not infallible'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, nothing is infallible'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why the more protections the better'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Theoretically, maybe. In practice it seems juries are mostly a way to make it easier for good actors to win cases.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'unless the jury hates you, or fears what your verdict will do to the comunity'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1 person 1 vote.....get rid of the electoral college and give the vote back to the people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but its against the constitution and the founding fathers!!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'eliminating the EC'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'no I don't want a nationwide rcount.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'or a recount even.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was the electoral college set up under the constitution? i don't recall'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Juries may not know the term "jury nullification," but they know they can just return a verdict of not guilty'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Does it matter? I serves no useful purpose now..'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or guilty.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the same think, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Sure it is. They don't want to convict, so they don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole point of nullification is for cases where someone is technically guilty of breaking a law, but the law itself is unfit or unjust'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '/sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if 3 people vote, 2 for one person and 1 for the other...the 2 person gets all the electoral college points.....so the 3rd persons vote means nothing....that seems wrong to me.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'say for argument sake that they make a law saying it's illegal to wear a hat on a friday'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or a law that says all Jews must be reported so that they can be taken away to be gased'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'yeah, I know. I'm saying that jury's are confronted with the victim and with the defendant (at least he's in the room with them, if he doesn't testify), and if the jury jsut doesn't like the victim, doesn't like the law, or really likes the defendant, they may not convict even if they know the defendant is guilty'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the person with the 2 votes should get 2/3 of the EC points, and the other person 1/3'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't doubt that's possible, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wouldn't that work both ways?  If the jury can vacate a law such that the accused does not get punished, can't the judge overrule the jury?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but just because that's possible doesn't mean that people shouldnt' understand the WHOLE of the jury law and purpose'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, hans, he cannot'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'sometimes in sexual assault cases the jury wont convict b/c they don't feel the defendant should be forced to register. The lawyers aren't allowed to mention that registration would have to happen upon conviction, but the jurys often know and then refuse to convict'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so to really fuck someone over, I have to get on a jury...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't help you, hans, has to be 12-0'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'The judge can dismiss the charges before its submitted to the jury if there is no possible way a reasonable jury could find beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Upon conviction the defendant can appeal and reargue that no reasonable jury could have convicted. So there are opportunities'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the background really is that the law should be a means to an end, not the end itself'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for a context and rationale, go read up on common law and the origins of the legal system'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that would be inefficient, as apparently you have done so already.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Of course the law is a means unto an end. It's an expression of a moral goal that we as society hope to reach. At least in the abstract that's my opinion of the law'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so which is TN, common law system or fundamentalist approach to reading the constitution?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was there a question in there, twyst?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you seem to support both, but they are diametrically opposed'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'There's no "common law" constitution. Rules of construction can be based in a long history. I think you're referring more towards "living document" vs "originalist' approach, and that just depends on the Justice deciding the case'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are not diametrically opposed at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'originalist (also textualist) and living document are fairly opposed. Sometimes they may dovetail, for instance new methods of speech are protected under the 1st amendment by both approaches, but they are often opposed'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah what he said :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Read the abortion cases (Roe, Casey, Cruzan) if you want to see in sharp contrast the different approaches'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or the ones on slavery and women's suffrage'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there can exist extremism within both those camps'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah, you could go read Dredd Scott and see an attmpt at originalism'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'isn't he a pirate? }:>'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you sit on the far edge of the living document camp, then you might as well not bother having a constitution at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'No Tigernuts, you start with the words, and then just interpret them per your "growing awareness" to mean whatever you feel is nice and comfy!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd replace "nice and comfy" with "whatever fits your purpose at the time, nefarious or not"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: '"No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law" gives you the right to an abortion. Duh. It's right there in the words'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the child doesn't have the right not to be deprived of life?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'correct.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well then it falls back to the argument, when are they a child?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Not until viability. A fetus isn't a "person" under the 14th Amendment'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'even after viability they aren't a person. The State just gains a compelling interest in the life of the fetus. A state could allow abortion until the moment before birth'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a child is not a separate entity until it can reasonably survive on its own without biologically- or technologically-induced help.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'fetus is quite viable, do you mean zygote?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah, Hanslanda. You tell em. And all those parasites in your stomach aren't separate organisms either.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, incarcerating and/or assassinating american citizens without trial.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Zygote and fetus. Being a fetus doesn't entail being viable. Viability only happens around the start of the 3rd trimester'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think there can be any argument whatsoever that THAT is unconstitutional'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure, we have the technology to save a premie, but the whole entity question is sidestepped since they basically have no other rights under the constitution.  Can't vote, can't enter into binding agreements, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'term fetus refers to later stages of development...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'children can't vote. Neither can people in coma's'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'children can't vote either, you suggesting we can murder 16yr olds?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '6 year olds can't vote or enter into binding agreements either'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and I think a zygote develops into a fetus at about 2 months Abelinc'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'so yeah, it's more developed. But it's relative to earlier stages of life'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so we can agree that abortion is a complicated acse'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'case'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is a question of extremes though, people trying to get the morning after pill outlawed because it is abortion...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well in a perfect world people wouldn't be so fucking retarded and would use contraception'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Abortion isn't complicated. At the moment of conception there is a unique organism with human DNA all its own, and who metabolizes, grows, adapts, has the potential for reproduction. It's a living thing. Since it's nothing other than a human living thing, human life begins at conception'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh i'm sorry, i didnt' realise we were playing devils advocate here'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll leave you to it, i can guarantee you i won't be aborting any of my pregnancies'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on account of being male'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really.  Abortion is just a different form of miscarriage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and not getting any sex :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'it's a tough issue, but it's not complicated. The tough issue is whether fetal life is worth protecting. But we can't pretend a fetus is not alive'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Kinda Hanslanda. Heart disease is the leading killer of people, but murder is still wrong. Just bc miscarriage is the biggest killer of fetus's, doesn't mean intentional abortion is okay'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Humans have an amazing capacity for pretending. It's one of the things that set us apart from primitive creatures..'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'bzzzt! Wrong!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it currently comes down to "who do we care more about...the woman who can bitch and moan [and reason] to us, or this thing that we can't see without climbing inside her, which can't ask us for anything"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I thought that was opposable thumbs?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, not even that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all the primates are defined by that feature, so it obviously can't be a humans-only thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he didn't say humans vs non-humans ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure he did.  That's the primative creatures part.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'while not human, primates are generally considered to be rather advanced creatures'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"I'm going to drink this bunch of chemicals, and if you feel any discomfort, you should try to exit and survive on your own, because I don't feel like providing for you anymore"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Clearly creatures lower on the ladder, like economists, are also capable of pretending, so it's not a unique human thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You groan at the sight of Tinada.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and no, my original statement was neither serious nor intended to imply that only humans can pretend'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so far, about the only thing that seems to separate humans from everything else is religion and we literally have no way yet to prove/disprove that concept in other creatures.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Religion would involve some sort of ritual, no? That serves no other visible purpose?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Do we see that in other animals? Actual question, not rhetorical'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'religion, or religion-esque ritual?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'A reigion-esque ritual might indicate that animals have religion...which is totally preposterous imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Animals don't have souls and weren't given the gift of forgiveness imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'humans don't have souls either'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Tinada has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that does appear to be the case, tinada'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Well that's not really debatable. But I believe we do'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we see rituals, yes, but none that approach the zone of an externally-focused aspect such as religion.  Mating rituals, feeding rituals, the pecking order, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'ah, good point hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my cat has rituals'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think they're called habits'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..at least any kind of extraphysical/immortal/whatever soul is not something you can easily prove from Bible texts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'other religions have it easier..'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Well, we know that God forms us, and that we will live forever if we believe in Jesus and accept his forgiveness. That essence of me that is more than my flesh, that God knew before I was created, and that will continue to live on, is my soul'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i prefer meat to go with my vegetables, not the other way round'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'animals have sexual preferences (ie, gay penguins), sexual fetishes (koalas rape their women, some sort of lizard uses love triangles to improve mating odds, eagles form life-long monogamous relationships, etc), emotions (happy, sad, victimization, frustration, etc), and the ability to reason outside of instinctual matters (mostly among the higher-order tool-makers, though there are some non-primate species that are being found to demonstrate the same).'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I saw this documentary about a bird who would go hunt for a long, thin twig that was perfectly straight. He would then carry it to a certain rotted out branch, and use it to spear worms on. It was incredible'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'He had to stick his twig way down in the hole and fish out these worms'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'That's a smart bird imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some monkey/ape species are even known to fashion their own toys, as opposed to inventing games using naturally-found items.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'rubix cubes? good luck monkey, i can't even do one of those'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'fairly easy when you learn the pattern'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, no.  I meant more like instead of just picking up a handy branch to swing and swat with, the primate would pull off the leaves and extraneous branches, modify the shape (ie, sharpening, hacking off weird bends, etc), and use the finished product as a sword.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Have animals been shown to appreciate music?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'even if not being able to make it themselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i had a cockatail that appreciated the sound of the phone ringing'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, the phrase music soothes the savage beast came from somewhere ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you mean all animals in general?  Several species can actually already make music in the instrumental style (ie, not something they can voice or otherwise produce naturally via their own bodies).'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I'm not really counting bird songs'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are even some studies showing that they are even using music/noise as a codified messaging system.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ie, jungle drums'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'monkeys doing drum circles? Just like Bonaroo'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'what about jungle bass?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: '"In a surprise announcement, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said Thursday that Hurricane Sandy had reshaped his thinking about the presidential campaign and that as a result he was endorsing President Obama." LOL!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'GG'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bloomberg's a tosser'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I thought he said it reshaped his thinking?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shame it didn't reshape his head'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'apparently Hurricane Sandy was a result of Global warming, even though government scientists came out and refuted that claim when he made it'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the dude's ALWAYS been an Obama supporter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'exactly. I didn't really fall out of my chari when Bloomberg endorses Obama :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'the NOAA actually told Bloomberg how wrong he was to think GW was the blame'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'but facts dont phase him. He sticks to his (outlawed) guns'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and his banned 16oz drinks or whatever size it was'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: '44'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'buy a 2litre bottle. problems solved'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'what if I smuggle in my own 44 oz cup from New Jersey? Is that against the law?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the guy is seriously special needs'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I dont think it regulates refilling your own container'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'just people selling'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro glances at The River Styx, a look of obvious relief on his face.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Im in tx where we drink whatever the hell we want to so Im not too sure.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'except beer on sundays :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Yeah except that'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'in NC we can drink after 12 noon on sundays.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'here too I think, not sure, Im not much of a drinker.  I keep a 6 pack in the fridge and it takes me 6 weeks to drink it'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I'm the same way, just with a case of beer. And 1 week'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some animals are even able to incorporate instinct memories into their interactions with new species.  For example, in the Colorado/Wyoming region, grey (timber?) wolves basically got hunted to local extinction in the mid/late 1800s because ranchers were losing too much livestock to them.  As a result, the species was put on the endangered species lists and was successfully brought back to a point where they could be reintroduced to the original area (now suffering from a deer problem).  The reintroduction was successfully boring, but one surprising aspect was that the red squirrel populations were able to recognize the wolf as a specific predator even though no squirrel alive in the region ever encountered one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'maybe the squirrel just said "that's a big thing. I'm a little thing. RUN AWAY"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and how do they determine that a squirrel recognized it as "a specific predator"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nutjobs come up with some truly nutjob things to write'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I no longer recall the specifics of the argument, but that was what their observations concluded.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's not what observations concluded'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil is good.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I'm sure they were smart people. But that just doesn't prove much to me that a squirrel knows a wolf is a predator'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's what idiots concluded'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'walk a german shepard by a squirrel, it runs...walk a wolf by a squirrel, it runs...walk a cat by a squirrel, it runs...boom! I just concluded by observation that a squirrel recognizes a cat as a wolf'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'can you find a region where there are squirrels but no canine/feline species?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'you're missing the point Hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they'll still run.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'squirrels know how far up they're NOT on the food chain'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they don't wait to know that something's a predator before their reaction is to run'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'suppose you have a population that doesn't recognise a new predator. After a few generations, the ones that don't recognise it would be dead. Reintroduce it... good chance it'll still be recognised.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'scurry! sniff! flinch!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'after 120-something years?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, it's not recognized as a predator, it's recognized as a threat'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'those who wouldn't recognise it died long ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'y'know what, I don't need to have seen a grizzly to know that it's a fucking threat to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'As did the ones who did (and likely another dozen generations after that)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the ones who did reproduced'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but that's because you still have the connection present.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'squirrels will run from vegans as well'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'now if a squirrel dipped its tail in ink and did a sketch artist's rendition of the wolf, THEN I'll go with "it recognized it as a specific predator" :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so, what would you think if the squirrel acted aggressively?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd think holy shit that squirrel has rabies'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what do you think would happen if a crocodile walked past a squirrel in wyoming?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'bff'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, I certainly wouldn't expect the squirrel to get all pomeranian-like trying to scare off the croc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it runs away because "Holy shit, what the fuck was that!" not "Holy shit, that's the thing that ate my great great grandpappy!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I want to see this implemented.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'you get the alligator. I get the squirrel. We meet in Wyoming'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one way to test it is to observe if there are any major differences in the reaction upon encountering a different type of wolf...'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nono, it has to be a native wyoming squirrel'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and a native wyoming croc? That's tough'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, the croc's not allowed to be native...that's what we're testing'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a reasonably-similar alternative would work.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'also, reactions would naturally be complementary.  If the wolf was just lurking and exploring, it's reasonable to expect the squirrel to react differently than if the wolf was clearly trying to get the squirrel.  And the prey would react still differently if there were something to protect, such as a nest full of delicious babies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the squirrel will run away regardless of the largish predator...some type of recognition would be displayed if the method of running away used a different strategy (zigzag for one predator, beeline for tree for another, beeline for under rock for third)...however recognition would only need to be as far as one predator looking somewhat like a familiar, wouldn't necessarily be recognizing an individual type of threat'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there is no reasonable test which would result in a valid conclusion of "squirrel recognized this specific thing from 100 years ago", however...just nutjobs publishing a paper to continue with their research grant :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of nuts, did you hear about the recent innovation that allows for magnetic drives to expand their capacity by almost a factor of 10?  Something to do with how many atoms they store their information on (new = 1 atom/bit or someuch, old = 6-10ish atoms/bit).'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am waiting for quantum computers to become available. They will have quantum drives with a theoretical infinite capacity :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if only they'd calculate reliably }:>'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, sure, one can only hope :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'with quantum computing, you can divide by zero (because theoretically, all the 0s are also non-zeros).'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, not exactly, each bit will be represented by a quantum state or the like. I am betting they will be using spin to determine 0s and 1s.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'integer spins will be 1s and rational spins will be 0s or viceversa.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_bit'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, that's even simpler :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'makes it very compact.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'qubits rather than bits'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I was thinking that they would have to use now batches every time information changed, but they can reuse the same electrons.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you could say that the state space is literally in another dimension! har har har'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wow, the little machines  that they will be able to build :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of little, they're upgrading the material military uniforms are made of.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'let me guess :) coherent radiation resistant :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the new material will be made of carbon nanotubes, designed to repel chemical and biological agents in much the same way as those flexible skinsuits that harden on impact.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and here I thought that the first use of bucky balls would be for civilian use :('
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the first uses were civilian-based.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure but I would think that hazmat suits now would be more important. Since hazmat alarms occur daily.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we've got hundreds of uses for them now, though graphene has taken some rather large bites out of that pie.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, nanotubes are both conductors and dielectrics so their uses are basically limited by the imagination.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's what I thought they would come up with a uniform that repelled laser attacks :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the suit's also going to be highly breathable, at least before the encounter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, a hazmat suit has to do more than protect from immediate contact, it has to provide an stable internal environment. It doesn't do any go to be saved from nerve gas only to die of suffocation :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're working on personal forcefield suits (they first were working on vehicular forcefields, but saw the need to keep troops near vehicles to be a liability)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm sure they'd have breather units incorporated.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wonder if anyone's working on those nostril filter things like in the Ultraviolet movie (the bad guy wears them so he doesn't become a phage)?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ooo, she was so hot in that movie :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lol, wanna use your iphone as a can of pepper spray?  There's an app for that!'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, it is almost gospel that if you are going to work on biowarfare you have to also work on bioattack protection. So I am betting the US military is working on something of that nature.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=3800'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but wait, the US has banned biowarfare research.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos is rolling on the floor laughing hysterically.
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wonder how many Osborne I's are still in existence today?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the I stand refuted :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hmm, weird.  The military is working on "bulletproof custard".'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe for the pie fights at the mess?'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hehe, no, it's the nickname for a topsecret liquid that hardens on impact.  Supposed to be 50% lighter than the plates used in bpvests now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'huh, apparently 11ish years from now we're going to have a space marines program in the US.  An elite fighting force, a mere few hours away from everywhere.'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how nice :) Death and destruction raining from the skies :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and we thought the reason for the space program was exploration :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'And In more reports! When I hurt you it makes me want to do it again.. Now be still so I can land a hit!'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'wtf lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'My max HP is 1776, the most free and independent number of all time'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am partial to 13, myself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, and if you are referring to the US, didn't they already have slaves by then?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hey as far as slavery goes everyone was doin it at that time. It didn't get sad until the 1800's when nobody was doing it but us.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if you think that's justification...'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's not, I got nothing'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the Spanish quit importing slaves before the 1600s. Most colonies by then had integrated the former slaves into the general population.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But still that year represents independence from the English. Slavery or not.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'besides I an not arguing wether slavery is good or bad, just questioning the "free" and "independent" claim :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well I justifed what I meant, look up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'gotcha, if my neighbor beats his wife and I am justified in beating mine. I understand.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I told you allready I was not trying to justify slavery'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but you are making an untenable statement :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'my mother is a sex slave from China'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I am not, America was free from the English as of 1776. '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, but that wasn't your original statement :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'what was my original statement? Because my second statement about slavery was kind of a joke, a bad one but still. I conceded that their was no justification for it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'there*?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '[1]776, the most free and independent number of all time <--'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Anaristos does have you there'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'oh no we pay the crown too much in taxes vs. I will force you to work for me unpaid for all your life and do what I want with you'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well, what is the most free and independent number of all time then? If I am wrong you gotta have a better answer than me. Number has to be a year in history though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, numbers don't have those kinds of attributes :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '1865 would be better'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'although there are other equal/better ones'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanmuru Kirua: '1 would be the most independant number'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you could argue that 0 and 1 are the only numbers :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they are the only numbers that can't be constructed from the other "natural" numbers.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'When I said number, I should have said year. -__-'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you might have gotten away with that, then again...'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you step into the debate channel, you are asking for it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Snooky don't get away with shit in this motherfucker. I might be the only one that will concede defeat though. Because I'm a man dammit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am taking advantage of the fact that most Imms know me already because of helper.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'any discussions going on tonight?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, but here is something interesting I just read: When Casey Jones crashed into the hanging cars of a freight train, he destroyed 1 locomotive, 1 caboose and 1 mail car. Total damage was 2996.25 :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the injured settled for 37.00 :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'wow'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'this was 1900 :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'times have changed alot'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'things change Mox'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the engine, which was one of the most modern of the time, cost 1396.25'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'now the go for about 5M - 10M'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'heh, some of those tour buses cost 2M'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'jsut goes to show you how much value we have put on things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I thought it just showed how worthless the dollar is now :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Court OKs warrantless installation of hidden surveillance cameras on private property without a warrant'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds seriously dodgy to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i hope they see lots of dude masturbating and other stuff they wouldnt want to see with their hidden cams :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get your unhidden video camera out and video in public and you get arrested, such is the hypocracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bloomberg blamed the NY flooding on global warming? Is there no end to this guy's idiocy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, it was global freezing'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's global weather'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an unusual combination of weather events combined with a high tide and full moon'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and of course we know that the average planetary temperature has no impact on the weather.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well if that's the case, why would a 0 increase in global temperature cause it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we no further that the average ocean temperature has no effect on the weather.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anaristos is trolling out lies'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if you measured a 0 increase, I would buy a new thermometer :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit like the rising sea levels that haven't'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'lol trolling out lies'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'bring on the rising sea!  i own 7 surfboards'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you suggesting the sea levels have only risen in one area of the globe?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, aka I don't agree with you (though I don't agree with Bloomies either )'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, no, I doubt if that is the case, but the sea level is rising, in general.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's barely changed'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'brief search shouws average sea surface temperatures stable over 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'do you know how much a 1cm raise in the average level of the ocean translate to in liters of water?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1cm over what time period?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the sea levels rising is directly attributable to glaciers and icecaps melting which is directly attributable to global warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and how much has the global temperature risen over the last 17 years, zade?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '1cm of extra ocean water, plus the warmer energised more violent weather may be swelled into a lot more water action'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is absolutely no doubt that there is climate change, but the scientist 'models' have been proven to be utter garbage'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and since it's these models that the globalists have been using to infuse panic in the public, ram laws down everyones throat, and most importantly, tax everyone'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is BSing'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you never answered the question, zade'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you don't want people to know that it is infact you doing the BSing'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleat like a sheep, zade, bleat like a sheep'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the winters are getting warmer here every winter -- that seems to be global warming '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they aren't'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no snow seen yet -- there used to be a brief snow fall before halloween about 7 years ago -- early snow is becnming rarer and rarer here'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so because you haven't seen early snow there must be global warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we haven't had a heatwave here in years, there must be global cooling right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stats based evidence either way ?  evidence ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zaa-aa-aa-a-aaade doesn't do stats evidence'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the climate is changing'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'crazier than me ? dammit this is my gig mate - get ur own :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, no global warming :) The ice in the Antarctic is on strike, that's all :) '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA is experiencing more of the more violent weathers -- another symptom of global warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'antartic ice is stable, artic ice has deteriorated since 1970 but has no records before that'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the glaciers aredisappearing, and the polar icecaps are melting -- another symptom of global warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'do we all go and watch the Inconvient truth and come back in 2 hours ? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts grins evilly at Tzadkiel.
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'was that inconvenient Tiggy :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Zade didnt' watch the inconvenient truth, he watched Monty python's lesson on logic'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'ever heard of Pascal's wager?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'probably misspelled haha'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'without looking at the "theories" by repunlican scientist moles paid to be "discredited", there is plenty to look at that supports global warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's climate change, not global warming, the liberals changed the catchphrase 10 years ago when they realised the model was crap'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'without looking at the "theories" by republican=paid scientist moles paid to be "discredited", there is plenty to look at that supports global warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'pascals gambit - better to believe in god than not too '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Tzadkiel person again...
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you are saying that a climate change does not entail temperature change?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'climate change entails temperature change, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both ways, over a long period of time'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so if Global warming is a myth...'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well we cleaned up the planet for nothing, shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you haven't cleaned up shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'call this clean ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is the ultimate goal'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what Tiggy said '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'moving all your pollution production to china and india to meet UN agreements is not "cleaning"'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an ice-age is "climate change". Also since republicans state that the climate is no longer getting warmer but holding steady (though warmer than umpteen years ago), the term "climate change is crap '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'better of dealing with economic reform ... deals with every facet of humanity atm - best tool for reform imo ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'screw the planet!  We wont be around long enough for anything to matter '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade is confusing several terms now'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'thats the spirit right?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you then contend that because you are alive at this time there isn't a change in progress because they all have been historical.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tzad, did we walk into a special needs school on this channel?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm front n centre - must be .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I mean Ice Ages and Firestorm ages happened to other people, they couldn't happen again. The volcanic activity, the shifting tectonic plates, the overheated Pacific oceans, they are all myths and mythconceptions :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the current "global warming" (whether steady or rising slightly) is definitely affecting the weather, the glaciers, the icecaps, sea-levels, etcetera'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go ahead zade, you'd best give all your money to al gore because of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they are? Well, hush my mouth'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who is giving money to Al gore?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone who wants to help him compensate for Clintons success imo .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'euphemism for all the carbon-based restrictions and taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Al Gore invested in all kinds of goverment welfare-receiving green companies, his fortunate has gone from $2m to $200m over 20 years. It's no surprise he travels the world harping on about impending doom due to our carbon dioxide emissions'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the extra CO2 in the atmosphere is causing the arctic winters to be colder (since the extra CO2 is absorbing the sunlight attempting to reach the polar regions in winter (where there is yet sunlight)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'just because Al Gore might be crooked doesn't mean that there isn't global warming.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole UN approach is crooked, anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I do agree to moving to reknewable energy sources - carbon tax is a blunt instrument imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'absolutely blunt :) Considering that the major emitters will not pay a dime.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, tzad, if they wanted green energy here in the Uk they'd invest in tidal power, we're a fucking island for fuck sake'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but no, like US, they tax the shit out of regular energy which is already expensive for poor people, to give to crazy companies building stupid wind turbines that nobody wants'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and which will -never- make a significant contribution to the energy requirements'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so what is the answer then - subsidise research n roolout ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no subsidise, just do'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'walking to work would help considerably...'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'will never? is that what your crystal ball says?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the extra CO2 in the atmosphere is aborbing more sunlight and more heat and thus energising the more violent weathers (hurricanes, tornadoes, etcetera) regardless of the average gloval temperature'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i work 28 miles away, it would be a hell of a walk, anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've moved on from that, zaa-aaaa-aaa-de'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'change the patterns then'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'global'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'geothermic is good base load energy - Oz has solar in spades but out researchers are all working in germany atm - the best ones anyway '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the only reason you work that far away is because you have a vehicle.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only reason i work that far away is that's where the job is'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'car pool - public transport ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'public what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol yeah .. ok had to try the party line on :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so instead of me driving my car to work, you want a smelly bus carrying 1 person to work?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Angels advocate n all that :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about they concentrate on providing public transport in the metropolitan areas and stop screwing the rural areas?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'would save on gas money'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much plastic vapour (and other chemical compounds) leaks from lots of solar panels'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course not, we don't want to inconvenience you. I'd rather fry the environment :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oddly, anaristos, my driving to work is going to make no difference'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'same thing was said about CFC's'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'inner city Adelaide is pretty good for public transport - I guess it depends and I don't work so I guess I have no idea of time restrictions '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much psychological damage does the noise of wind farms cause to those no longer able to get silent noise relief'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a local issue, zade'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wind n wave - both have moving parts and huge stresses on parts - high maintenance imo - solar or geothermic is better imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much lubrication vapour leaks from wind farms '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there is a line there I'm not touching .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so ? soln ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '... Zade , even?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zaaaa-aaaa-aaade doesn't have solutions'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the solution is to pretend like nothing is happening'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he prefers to bury his head in the sand'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'thats the problem imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so who amoung us has ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a workable soln to energy generation the involves renewable sources '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cars and trucks are regulated to reduce pollution emissions -- but smelly lawn-mowers, ATVs, mopeds, scooters, two-stroke engines, are not yet regulated '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'obviously there isn't a cut and dried solution'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'each country should become energy self sufficient and work towards it's own renewable sources, using cleaner versions of non-renewable in the meantime'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but the structural investment needed to get there is not going to come from corporations looking to turn a quick buck'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there are ways in which we can move toward it - imo a carbon tax is not one '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did it here ages ago when they linked vehicle tax to emissions. everyone moved to lower emissions. easy'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now they're whinging that the tax isn't producing much revenue'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but emissions went down'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i know :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but theyre now looking to change it'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how is that a bad thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government think it's a bad thing because they're losing revenue'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they think low emissions are a bad thing?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they are unrelated'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what they think'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i don't agree with vehicle excise duty, it was an example of using something that was already there, tailored to act as a carrot to the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they didn't tax the shit out of everyone, they offered people a cheaper options for lower emission cars'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'from a revinue point of view - is why I think we really need to rethink out fiscal environment - lets be honest - the dollar drives all atm '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok so we know the carrot n stick approach works on the small end of town - but the larger ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the carrot and stick works period'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'read Freakonomics some time'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can put in regulation for the output of pollutants for new power stations'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can offer people zero tax rate on energy if it was from a wholly local renewable source'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'creates a margin'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'for a country to introduce the same approach runs the risk of loosing comparative advantage over - China for one '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'do not anticipate benign solutions (from God) when callous greedy anti-socialist republican-supporters are around -- the four horsemen of the Apocalypse and Armageddon is more likely'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why the key thing is for countries to become energy self sufficient'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cheap power = cheap manufacture .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that requires cheap labour and cheap parts too, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I said China didn't I :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalism isn't the answer'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'China is a huge polluter'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Globalism is unavoidable'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cheap-energy that rapes the ecology is not the answer'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and I'd love to see Oz energy self sufficient but isolationist behaiviour in the schoolyard and in global politics has proven flawed imo - look at N Korea ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not unavoidable, and it needs to be avoided because it's BAD'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a bit of an unfair comparison, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'corporations are growing stronger and more concentrated every day'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'co-operation, not co-ersion'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'globalism without socialism is bad'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'globalism has been around for a while in a sense'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it was just one way - colonialism'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the definition of co-ersion'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'colonialism is BAD, and it's still going on, just in the form of Emprism, instead of taking over the country's government, you just take over their resources and direct their government'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA and the west are still doing that'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'on co ersion - special interests - so called democratic fund raising for election campaigns and loss of soverenty due to this like of funding .. perhaps that is were we need to start looking in order to gain headway ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'China is doing that with Oz now Tiggy '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china is doing that with oz and half of africa'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'has been for years '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA/Nato is doing it with the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do you think china and russia veto stuff on the un security council?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and all based on dependance on raw resources - lol union time :P ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you really think al-quaeda jihadists will make a better government in Syria than Assad?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol, democracy unless it is not who we want'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just in syria I think the local populace has a strong enough movement to get some form of democracy through - rather than letting the church move in ? only a sideliner but thats my poinion '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Assad is hardly Ghandi, but he was keeping the peace between the religious sects'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Assad is also a douchebag'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's no surprise that since the fighting started, the rebels have been burning and looting churches and killing those who are not sunnhi'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just need someone to keep the peace long enough for McDonalds to move in and then it's lil US all over again '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there were mcd's there already'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Syria was a peaceful country and had been opening up to the west'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they just didn't like it because it wasn't controllable because it wasn't a democracy, and was supported by Russia. That's the -real- reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Yes we can" is a communist slogan in South America'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and yep - Assad is more than a ? doushbag ? lol you can swear here :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insane, Greek PM calls for EU referendum and threatens his chief of staff who are demanding a parliament that is representative of the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't even make UK news, WTF'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Napolitano taking flak, refusing to answer questions in the house'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Wall street/big banks routinely hire New York cops for security. Goldman Sachs spend $11m dollars over the last 4 years at a rate of $37 per officer per hour'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'German authorities caught planting spyware on citizens' computers to remotely place files, take screenshots, and take control of webcam and microphone devices'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nyne woods is good'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like that headline: Food stamp growth 75x greater than job creation'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fears that Barack Obama would use a lame duck second term to eviscerate gun rights are fueling record firearm sales again, with gun store owners labeling Obama, 'The best gun salesman we've had"'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN to investigate war crimes committed by western backed jihadi's in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm not sure his handling of the Hurricane will help him. There are a lot of people who are still in a lot of trouble that Obama didn't go see. He should have stayed there throughout the weekend. But then again, people rejected the 'country first' attitude of McCain.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a safe democrate state anyway, shouldn't make much odds'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DHS worker charged with soliciting 70 children for sex on facebook'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'His handling of the situation is a national thing. Remember Katrina and GWB? Because GWB didn't have 10,000 trucks full of ice medical supplies and essentials ready to go with 2000 airplanes ready to drop supplies in, he was some sort of terrible person.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trying to find some good news to coutner this'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, North Korea "Hotel of Doom" to open next year'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'San Francsisco won the WS!?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Xfactor to end after next season!'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'As a Phillies fan that's not great, but its good news to SF fans.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Was hoping Detroit would pull it off, but SF was clearly a better team.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here we go: Amsterdam drops tourish drug ban'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, thats' about the only good news i could find - sorry'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'xfactor done after next season?  The world is ending'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, what are the braindead zombie liberal trendies going to watch then?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'probably more porn.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unemployment rate up to 7.9%, that's still below the UK's i believe'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, apparently i'm wrong, UK's molested unemployment figures is 7.9% too'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(according to the Office for National Bullshit..  i mean Statistics)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'romney takes 2 point lead in ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'says the poll that can be off by as much as 5 points.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The problem with these polls is that they don't really mean anything face value "X is up by Y to Z"'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its all on how they think turnout will be.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't really mean anything period'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the polls don't include minor parties, for a start'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If truly 38% of democrats turn out to 29% republicans in Ohio, then yes, I 100% agree Obama will win that state. '
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But if it is closer than that, or near tie or even a republican lead, Romney will win that state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that likely? the trend is that republicans will a far higher turnout'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its not likely Tigernuts, thats why I think Rasmussen will be spot on. However, only time will tell. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'we will know on Tuesday'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its all about educated guesses. The polls who have more resources can really work on their turnout models. However Simpleton State University poll (example) probably not and will use the 2008 or 2010 model.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'provided Gary Johnson hits his 5% , i'll be content'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Lol, somehow I knew you'd support him.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he takes more votes from democrats than republicans and you end up with Romney in charge, so much the better'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Not much more to add to the Benghazi situation, just more circumstantial evidence.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'traditionally they take more from republicans tho yes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They would, libertarians would either go for the GOP or the libertarian party canidate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd think that, apparently the anti-drugswar and anti-warwar message is resonating among young democrats'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Libertarians are, in my opinion, moderate to very right wing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the relaxed immigration laws are going down well with the latinos'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'However if I lived in the UK I probably would be one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'libertarians aren't part of the left-right paradigm'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its all about perception and nurture and environment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well if you define left wing as a strong centralized (perhaps even totatarian) government and far right wing as near-anarchy then yes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Most libertarians want the government out of most things in their lives.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think Romney will pull off the popular vote, but I agree - the swing states will all come down to turn out. In Ohio, each side has its own strengths there. Its going to be really close, and anyone who says that they know for sure who will win is probably trying to sell you something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I dunno, Its hard to win the popular and not win the whole thing.  Statistically, its happened too soon in the recent past'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Don't get me wrong, I might shed a tear and move to Mexico if Romney wins but yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If its less than 0.5% it is actually really possible, but yes, if it is more than that, even above 1%, it should follow that the electoral collage would go with it too.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Unfortunately I live in a state where my democratic vote doesn't really matter.  Texas is going to carry red no matter what, at least for the foreseeable future.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Same here, reverse situation. Unless somehow no democrat can show up to the polls on Tuesday because of the storm, NJ is going blue.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'the inland parts of NJ are more republican, btw.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'except for the Camden area of course.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'vote for a third party then, if they get enough support it may raise some eyebrows...'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'But hey, I take heart that some day us simple minded Texans will realize that rape is NOT a gift from God'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The River Styx snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Now, that's crazee talk.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Rape is not a gift from God, but it is a cross given to some by God.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The River Styx says "INORITE?!?!?!" to Ranrr.
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And a tough cross too, its emotionally devastating I am sure. :('
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The River Styx sighs at the sight of Romney on November.
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'even if I believed in God, I wouldn't be that ludicrous, or hell, maybe I would.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Still, the faithful have to remain faithful in that whatever cross is given to you, you'll pull through it and it'll work out in the end.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well the real point of debate there Styx is fundamentally this, "can bad things that happen to you, pain and suffering, end up being good for you the long run?"'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The faithful think so, that is why pain and suffering are treated differently. As Padre Pio put it, "if you truly knew the value of suffering you'd be praying for it."'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'sure it can. But that doesn't mean its a good thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Probably not rape.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'In itself it is not a good thing. Sin is not a good thing. Its how we deal / cope with the pain and suffering that changes us.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Mother theresa surely believed that. And that got her a lot of money.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I believe she's on the path to cannonization.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Of course, in her case, it was the pain of others that was good for her.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'The real debate is, I respect others beliefs and entitle them to it, just give me the same entitlement not to believe.  And don't base my inaliable rights off of your religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think she suffered a lot personally too Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I dunno how to spell inaliable, and apparently neither does spell check.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe so, I base most my knowledge on her on the bullshit episode, it may not have told everything :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I don't recall the details, but I believe God made himself very visible to her early on - and then for 50 years she had to go through immense challenges without so much of assurance from Him. That was her test, and I think she passed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'So, she had one drunken night, and wasted her life on some hallucination?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well Styx, this isn't about religion, its about our fundamental existence. That question is a philosophical one, not tied to any religion. Most religions have an opinion on pain and suffering, not all of them the same.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think He made himself visible quite a few times when she was in the convent period  learning to be a nun.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I doubt substance or alcohol was involved.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, then she was just delusional.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'It IS about religion.  Religion is what drives your answer to how to deal with pain and suffering.  Believe it or not there is such thing as no religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Maybe, but there have been many mass "delusions" if thats what you want to call them. Like the 70,000 people at Fatima who witnessed the sun becoming unhinged from the sky and a miraculous drying out of all rainwater in mere seconds.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Were all of them on substance abuse at the time? doubtful. Still, no emprical evidence.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes, a majority of the world is probably delusional. Doesn't make their delusions true.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well let me as this question then, what proof do you have that God doesn't exist? that these people are dellusional. To make a claim,  you have to explain their psychosis in definitive way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't need to prove the non existance of anything.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Apparently I'm delusional, to think that a religion based on kindness and tolerance wouldn't go to the extremes it does to push their religion on to me.  Oh wait, can't make money without followers, forgot.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You're not dellusional. I'm just asking for your evidence.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'There are several religions around the world that are not compatible with each other.  At least SOME people MUST be delusional.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'if they all really believe in the tangibility of it, then yes Cosmo, somebodies crazy as a bed bug.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well the qeustion is if you are helonistic or monotheistic. As a monotheist, I believe that yes Cosmo, there is only one real Truth. Thus, only one religion is capable of really being right. Helonistic people are OK with the personal god concept, where all religions may end up being true.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, of course, helonsitic, polytheists are entitled to their opinion. I don't push stuff on others, just explain my own beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, man turns his dead cat into a remote control helicopter'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: ''Biden: 'There's Never Been A Day In The Last Four Years I've Been Proud To Be His Vice President'. I'm Mitt Romney and I approve this message. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think Obama would do well by giving this man a teleprompter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'He has plenty to spare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about giving him some policies'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so that he can concentrate on those instead of removing everyone's rights and violating the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I just can't get over the quantity of gaffes he makes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they both have'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It's literally one per day, or if not that one per every two days.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, you didn't build that'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, Biden is far worse than Obama on gaffes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think George W still trumps both'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, he didn't commit this many. Not like 3-4 per week.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure he only chose Biden because Hilary would have been too divisive for him'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Here is a running list of Biden Gaffes, the site says Updated Frequently! hehe. http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/joebiden/a/bidenisms.htm'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its actually missing a whole lot.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt obama would have wanted Hilary as VP because of influence the Clintons have, she'd probably have had him topped just to be president'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I have this conspiracy theory that Clinton (both of them) wants Obama to lose and Christie wants him to win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think their love for their guy is very shallow.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would they want him to lose?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than having a better chance for her in 2016'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Clinton would rather go up against Romney in 16' as the 'savior' from his policies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And Christie would rather go up against Obama failures in 16'.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'christie is nj governor?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, and in the interest of full disclosure, my governor too. I am a NJ resident.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i saw the guy on an interview about sandy. The guy's an imbecile'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'People like him because he's moderate, he doesn't take shit from no one, and when he says something he's going to do - he does it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That kind of attitude resonates with a lot of people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's an imbecile'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not as bad as bloomberg, that guy is just a cook'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kook?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You should watch him handle the press in a press conference. It's hilarious.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I've always believed that the Republicans *generally* offer up better candidates because of how much the liberal media grills them. They end up being more tested-in-fire. People don't realize how much the two parties and the media biases actually strengthen each other.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Still, they cause too much polarization, nothing gets done and big problems get worse.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mussolini's granddaughter to take over from Belersconi as leader of Italy's centre-right party'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ugh, just saw my first 'christmas themed' commercial.  I'm sure they started earlier, but that's the first one for me this year'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's modern pointless zombism for you'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'Girls look good in shorts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'girls look better out of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'better access in skirts and dresses.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'Damn, you guys are good debaters.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kashnar: 'masters of it, even'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Cain killd Abelinc has a degree in master debating
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'from the Unh! Unh! school of debatery'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'plus, if her mom comes home early then she can get decent real quick while you dive under the bed or into the closet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no she cant'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hehe, clearly I've been in more situations where mom came home early.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no you aren't'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'NUH UH'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'interesting, the IRC Undernet is yet alive and running -- unable to locate the Chemosh / Druzil nicks -- there is an ABeLinkSys though'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i mean.. no you haven't'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no there isn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil is a true good.'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no it is not'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wait, we talking about K-Y or Sunoco?'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'not at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil is a true good....the jews should plant a tree in its honor.'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't it sound strange that, how in the aftermath of hurricane sandy , there is looting fighting and massive problems with shortages of water, food and shelter, that elsewhere in the US the feds are persecuting 'preppers', labelling them as extremists'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone here ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Alex Jones'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they say that the average car sits idle 90% of the time.  Get that thing making money for you by renting it out at relayrides.com.'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you made that up'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, actually, I didn't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'well someone did'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'relayrides.com is a successful nationwide peer-to-peer rental company based out of San Fransisco.'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's referring to not being driven, not to running idle'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'vote vote romney, bring back the idea of Deseret!  The joining of arizona, utah, colorado, wyoming, montana and oregon and parts of california into 1 large state!'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh, and idaho'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Romney has like a 1/5 chance'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'US airline carriers earned $36.4 billion from fees in 2011.'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A brand new 2015 Dreamliner fully loaded costs $236 million.'
T3/r7/2012-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's like 200 million more than the American Dream stretch limo (imagine 18 wheels on a stretch sedan)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'any other oldschool metal lovers out there ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest polls: PA, MI beome tossups, voting irregularities in CO'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ever lost some one you love Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bill Mahers continues his racist liberal vomit on tv when he warns Romney supporters "Black people know who you are and they will come after you"'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'frequently, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'posting  the loss of my sister in music link'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happened to her?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'drunk driver - wrong  side of the road - Alison on motorcycle - killed '
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh, sorry to hear that dude'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'listen to the link '
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'dudette, and am also very sorry'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'again listen to the link '
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DS3wmldJYw&feature=related'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people in the wake of Hurricane Sandy have died because of carbon monoxide poisoning from generators because they had foolishly used them indoors'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some residents of Sweden have moved to Finland because of Sweden's ban on homeschooling passed in 2010. People are leaving Germany for the same reson'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how is price gouging "illegal" during these storms, but business like title pawns are allowed to operate?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Michael Moore is walking sack of lard'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Flip agrees!
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he could be the answer to USA's energy needs'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does anything ever come from his mouth other vitriol, bile, and hate?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'Crumbs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Soros think tank recommends big cuts to military benefits'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, Soros comes from the same cloth of Henry Kissenger who things the american military are dumb animals to be thrown away as required'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'An early voting event in Ohio for Obama, fronted by Stevie Wonder singing live attracts just 200 peopel....'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to find some good news for you'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'here's some good news, i woke up and i'm still american'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China promises to phase out harvesting of organs from executed prisoners'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Governts around the world are demanding the return of gold being held in foreign banks'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That seems like a waste...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Now, if they would promise to stop killing people, that would be a good thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china is the model for democracy around the world these days'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Of course, China is not a democracy. No democracy would execute people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure it would'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing stopping a democracy killing people'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I would not call that a democracy. I call that a police state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'killing people has nothing to do with being a democracy. just don't reelect the people killing you'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sadly, there's a correlation between killing people and a police state, but a democracy that isn't a police state can still kill people'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if someone stands on a platform of executing people and they get voted in, that's what happens'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe so, i just don't know of any place that has a death penalty that I would call a democracy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Democracy can be 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on who's for dinner'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just under half the  of the 194 states int eh UN still ahve a death penalty'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'making up 66% of the world's population'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Probably true. Doesn't change my view.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'gogo capital punishment!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Most countries that have the death penalty don't apply it in practice any more'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2011  The following 18 countries carried out, or are believed by Amnesty International to have carried out, executions in 2011: Afghanistan (2), Bangladesh (5+), Belarus (2), China (2000+), Egypt (1+), Iran (360+), Iraq (68+), Malaysia (1+), North Korea (30+), Saudi Arabia (82+), Somalia (6), South Sudan (5), Sudan (7+), Syria (1+), UAE (1), USA (43), Vietnam (1+), Yemen (41+).'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'china is beating us there too'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'All third-world countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'All perfect examples of countries that I can not consider to be democracies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Um.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'There really are no democratic countries.  Plenty of republics.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china wiped out 80odd million of their citizens when western intelligence put mao zadong into powee'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea usa is on ther not all third words'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'singapore, egypt, china, bahrain, belarus, saudi arabia are not third world countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what are the rape stats in south africa?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'You guna status'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'What is a democratic country?  Even if every person votes on every issue, each issue is only a popularity contest.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Why should we hold democracy in such high regard?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'its the glue that binds us'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because it's better than the alternative'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democracy sucks'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'How is it better?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'better than chaos?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'look at north korea for your answer!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Having gone complete apeshit, Sonshi compares Aardwolf to Iran and North Korea.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at North Korea for a model that the west is using for their government'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Definitions are always tricky, but one thing that would disqualify a lot of countries is that all citizens should have the same rights. That would disqualify e.g. sweden, since the royal family is outside the law, or the US, because of the patriot act.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if Obama were to keel over, they'd expect everyone to line the streets crying, else brand you a racist'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, that line of argument is like saying that there are no good people because no one is a saint.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A democracy is useless unless backed up by a constitution that guarantees inviolable rights and processes'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Which means there is no democracy - because what if the population votes to cancel those rights?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a democratic constitution is only as strong as the people who believe in democratic values...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Constitution or some other binding law or document.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what bit of "inviolable" didn't you get? :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the inviolable rights prevents the overreach of government, and protects people from the 2 wolves vs 1 sheep problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pragmatism, i guess you would say'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'It protects people from themselves, which isn't democracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The people can cancel democracy if they want. E.g. when the nazis were "voted" into office.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if Germany had a constitution that couldn't be changed at that point, chances are he'd never have done the stuff he did'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'until el dictator comes along and cancels the constitution with the full blessing of the people who believe that he's going to restore their rights.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'do you know how stupid our people are? there are people that think because of hurricane sandy the airlines should give them lost wages  and refunds.. our people would drool on themselves if we didnt help them'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's only because americans are so feckless and lazy that George W, Clinton and Obama have got so far with eviscerating the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If they US constitution gave those rights, the patriot act would be illegal. Apparently, it's hard to do that...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'A South American country - I don't recall which - voted to become socialist in the 70s.  The CIA then destroyed their country and put a dictator in place, deeming them "wrong" to have voted that way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did that to Iran in the 1953 too, Cosmo, which lead to the revolution of 1979 which put in the regime they now so hate'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sounds like every country in america... one time or another.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Except maybe canada.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Iran tried to socialise?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do know that many of his actions in seizing power were illegal... it's only that no one could (or wanted to) enforce the law, especially when the previous german govt sucked.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'common story'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haven't you realised that all of the threats from the middle east to America are self-created?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'that's obvious'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yah, we need to build up our military bases we need more army guys over there'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but for Iran, here's some history for you:'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ajax'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Nah, I threw that wiki article up 10 minutes ago. it's a load of shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's the other way around, it's not the middle east that is a threat to the US, it's the US that is a threat to the middle east.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? it's all been declassified'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you put a lot of effort into shit that doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'lets say everything you are saying is 100% true. now what'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't matter, ohhhkay'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then carry on repeating the mistakes of history'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't expect to live in a nice world'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dinner!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'we are a nation of repeating mistakes. Obama's policies are the same that prolonged the Great Depression.  Clearly, people haven't learned...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'but he's black, so it's all good for the black americans in this country =)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the best part is, now people want romney so that he can repeat phase 2 of the mistakes...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: '2 party system is so fair'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'the president matters'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least obama did try a small stimulus, so the mistake was only half made'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'Smaller??'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'on what scale?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Try upcoming QE'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The united states creates its own problems overseas, otherwise we would be bored.  That is what happens when you are a nation based on fear.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rizgoth: Operation Himmler'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, as a percentage of gdp, it should have been at least in line with the size of those countries that emerged from the recession.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'more actually, since it was the epicentre'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You make the mistake of thinking economic policy is to alleviate problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it is in saner countries...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can't extrapolate that onto the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'QE3?  They're now talking about QE4 and 5.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We have more bases in the middle east than we do in Europe now....it is pathetic.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heck, back home we're actually trying to destroy jobs now, because there are too many...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I say we close down at least 80% of our foreign bases.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'doesn't make sense to have most of our bases in peaceful countries far from where the troublespots are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Then you understand what they're really for'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We created the problems in the middle east because of oil and gas.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you have managers doing deliveries because of massive labour shortages...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'I'm not just talking about his stimulus package. Calvin Coolide, one of the smartest presidents we've had, saw more job growth on his watch, because he didn't meddle in the private sector. Less regulations passed, lowered taxes, etc...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'partly because people would rather be managers than deliverymen...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'this is all pointless.  governments don't create jobs, opportunities, fulfillment, happiness, our anything else that most people strive for... PEOPLE create those things for themselves, through their own efforts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a wise govt would know when to meddle and when not to meddle'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'right, they would. but they don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yah, no one ever asks for small business loans, goverment grants or anything'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The problem was when governments no longer feared the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and now's the time to meddle'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the middle east isnt so important to the US anymore though....now that foreign imports are only about 35% of our oil supplies now....and dropping fast...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Fans of Ayn Rand, eh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how is now the time to meddle??'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's actually a pretty simple decision, at a first approximation'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'and what needs to be meddled in?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'liquidity trap? High unemployment? Time to raise aggregate demand'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'More like un-meddled'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'how do you make people want more?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In another 10 years, only Canada, Brazil and Mexico will be exporting oil to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'everything fine? Low unemployment? Sit back'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'first, they need jobs and money. ow do you make that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Left to themselves, in a capitalist society, corporations become deceitful, corrupt, and immoral, because that gives them more opportunities to make profit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Unemployment very low, massive labour shortages? Cut jobs as best you can'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The joke is that the endgame is the same as any other economic form'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'profit's bad?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Who's the biggest fish?  The gummint'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'It's therefore necessary for any government presiding over a capitalist country to impose restrictions (labour laws etc) on companies so that they'll only do the moral things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'jobs are easy to create for the govt, after all...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'we're not talking about labor laws, we're talking about policies that restrict job growth'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Cosmo, the government regulars are the private sector'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Such as minimum wage?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'requiring health care, and raising taxes are two'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'regulators too'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it isn't exactly rocket science to use govt as a sponge, soaking up excess labour when needed, and releasing them into the private sector once private demand picks up'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Man, I don't get you guys.  Why are you so against having healthcare??'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Should tie the federal min wage to the inflation rate, and raise it a min of 50 cents a year for the next 4 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when you raise minimum wage, companies are less likely to grant (bigger) raises.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'what excess labor is soaked up?? and where's it supposed to go?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they don't tie minimum wage to inflation so that they can effectively lower it in real terms without actually passing a law.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'build infrastructure, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'plenty of things for people to do'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't want to'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not like there's nothing that can be improved'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not that they wonder how to accomplish things; they don't want to do it'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the unemployment rate, as measured, measures the people who are looking for work'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they wouldn't be counted if they didn't want to work'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'See, in the UK they're smarter than that.  They tie minimum wage to inflation, but they change the way they measure inflation, and most people don't notice.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not quite, Sonshi.  It only measures the people accepting unemployment benefits.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'my point isn't necessarily that we need less government interference (though i do lean that way, but only slightly) my point is we shouldn't wait around for government to fix our lives we have to do it ourselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're choking out normal equilibrium'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flip: 'no, the people getting unemployment checks are counted as the unemployed'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Andurien'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people accepting benefits are a different measure'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Markets don't clear'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they aren't necessarily looking for work, even though doing so (with documentation) is required.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the official measure counts anyone looking for a job, even if they've been out of work for years'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, the long term unemployment rate is pretty high in the us now'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Get rid of all the conservatives and liberals in congress...and replace them with moderates of each party like it used to be, and just watch out, this country will be humming again...liberalism and conservatism is ruining the country.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Most of that is bunk propaganda - just look at the job market empirically to see'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'In my view, the government's job is to protect its people.  That includes protection from enemies of the state (defense), but also protection from illness (social security) and evil employers (labour laws).  Further interference is unwarranted, but those are necessary.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Government's been hijacked by big corporations and simply enables and protects them'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'politics are about as important as relgion'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, measures of party extremism have indeed been on the rise for both parties, but the rise for the dems is very small compared to the gop'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Goldman Sachs is the front for the Federal Reserve; the Fed isn't even government, it's a private cartel...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The EPA is all Monsanto'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Nah Gruagach, if I don't believe in God he can't hurt me, if I don't believe in the government they can :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Watch "Idiocracy" - pretty much on point'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'daylight savings in a myth...bring back the darkness.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's an interesting measure, really. They take certain issues, and assign scores based on who votes on which side, and chain the issues through the years to determine who is on which side with regards to the political spectrum'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it used to vary a bit here and there for the most part, but lately the dems and the gop have both purged their ranks of members of the opposite ideology...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'If you're going to have a two-party system, put the leader of the winners in as president, and the leader of the runner-up as VP'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but there are still large numbers of democrats close to the centre, while centrist republicans have been purged too'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's insane, Cosmogoblin.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Why?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The two parties often disagree on 90% of all issues.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'big incentive to shoot the guy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sonshi, problem is the GOP is all neo-cons, and the liberals are not-so-closet commies'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the VP is a senator.  You're giving the other side a vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Both have moved to their polar extremes'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'It's their job to disagree.  You have a binary system, it's only one or the other, and you change every 4 or 8 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would you want a system where if the president dies, a man who holds values the U.S. DID NOT vote for would take over?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And neither represent the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, nearly half of the dems are still centrist...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'how do you measure disagreement, though?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'ideological make up of House and Senate, by deviation from center, http://xkcd.com/1127/large/'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'If you didn't force that issue, things wouldn't be so bad.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but they don't have any power now that centrist republicans have disappeared'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If republicans want continued war in Afghanistan with 50k soldiers, and Democrats want continued war in Afghanistan with 48k soldiers and 2k mercs, do they then agree 50%, 98%, 100%? :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'You don't vote for the VP, either.  But if you changed the system, you can change that, too.  Have some imagination!  No point making a tiny change when you can change a lot.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US imports about 2 million barres of oil per day from the middle east.  The other 8 million barrels we import come from friends or allies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I actually heard of several such schemes in a few (math) talks before... interesting stuff. You can measure along other alignments other than left-right, and in things other than politics, by similar methods'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'OF COURSE you vote for the VP as well. McCain choosing Palin as his running mate in 2008 made quite a few undecided voters decide to vote Obama-Biden without question.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you changed the system, might as well use instant runoff.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Yes, because the system's stupid.  Change it so that the VP doesn't automatically get in if the P dies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think he means separately...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then what the fuck would happen if the president dies?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'If you all vote democrats, the demo VP takes over if the P dies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'strange, the bahamas export 16,000 barrels of oil per day to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A costly, long-winded special election? Who'd lead the nation in the meantime?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Rizgoth ponderingly.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'has that ever happened? the president wont die'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Or any one of a thousand other ideas.  Seriously, think of the options before you rubbish my idea completely!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'coconut oil? :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the presidential mortality goes up after 9 days in office.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'JFK was assassinated, Nixon was forced to leave office or face impeachment. Twice the President has been "incapacitated" in some way, with the VP taking over in modern times.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Belgium exports 79,000 barrels of oil or oil products to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure it happened several times during the first few presidencies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'True, but it's really not that common.  No president in history has been assassinated more than once.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's because Presidents aren't fucking cats.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Canada is up to 3 million barrels per day exported to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK do you get assassinated twice?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think it was a joke...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sigh...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, now you come to mention it'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's just spewing nonsense at this point.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'if they did fuck cats we wouldn't hear about it...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are a bunch of high level aq-quaeda leaders that have been killed at least twice'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Osama #1 died in Dubai; doesn't count'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nice, Columbia exports not only cocaine to the US, but also 400,000 barrels of oil per day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not really interested in your conspiracy theory bullshit, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with conspiracies, and more to do with the army misreporting'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country doesn't produce any oil, but we sure export a lot of it...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'France exports 52,000 barrels of oil products or oil to the US each day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'US Presidents did drugs while in office.  Opium, for example.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, oil is used as a common currency now.....some countries have to much day in and day out, so they use the surplus to export for other things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'More like danegeld'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, we just have a lot of refineries and industry'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If a country produced gold, and used the gold to buy oil, and ended up with more oil than they needed...they would sell the oil to someone else, like the US, for say wheat.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, being a major port...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not how international trade works...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure it does, except not simplified....they use us dollars.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ironically, oil is more a unit of account/store of value/medium of exchange than fiat money'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the extras are sold for dollars which are used to buy the wheat, or gold, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'buying one commodity to purchase another is not what happens. It's a waste of money'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or euros, or whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Saeed al-Shihri'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What did my cousin do this time ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Anwar al-Awlaki has also died twice'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'It's not ironic to use something tangible like oil.  For most of the history of money, it was used to represent real things like goods/favours/services rendered.  It's only the last 800 years or so that money has become more and more arbitrary.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fiat currency is a pretty bad idea, generally'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'More like since it wasn't backed by anything'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now, would you want a tangible barrel of oil, or a piece of ever-devaluing (wall)paper'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damnit, there's an echo'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'most people prefer the paper'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Fiat currencies usually work for long enough - so that the people behind the idea to become rich/knighted/famous/win a nobel prize..'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'on account of it being inconvenient to lug around barrels of crude'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Thank Bernanke for not worrying and coming to love the bomb'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'footballs is starting, i have more important things then to gossip about world leaders, later'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'says it all, gruagach, enjoy your partially rigged progandised sport'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't forget to give them all of your money'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'enjoy the tinfoil hat'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'go Texans!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'were even if you are right, you dont matter'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what an unusually illuminating example'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dont forget to buy alex jones water pump'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have a brother-in-law that manufacturers water filters, so no need'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i'm sure you can tell us the difference between a gravity fed silver-based filter and reverse osmosis filter?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'nope, i buy my water in a bottle'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mine's free'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'the zombie apocolpyse is really going to get me good'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what brand?  Several brands are just municipal tap rather than something from a spring.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'fiji water'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think this whole election is going to go down to Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best thing Republicans can do is grant California independance'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I agree with the Japanese thought of romney....Mr. Romney lacks 'shomin kankaku','
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It takes 5 lbs of sardines to produce 1 lb of farmed salmon....how about just eat the sardines ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sardines evolve into salmon?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sardines are caught to create fish meal to feed farmed fish.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'including salmon.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can evolve into anything you want provided you give me enough money'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they only evolve if you use Neptune's Trident on them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and they have to be at least level 20'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NBC's website was hacked for a while today'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Hack the Planet!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'did the demand naked pictures of bea arthur?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they*'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'by someone else, you mean?  They've always been a pretty big hack.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EPA, fearing a Romney victory, plan major post-election anti-coal regulation'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coal rules'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so?  If he wins, he becomes their boss.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Manhattan Institute estimates the greenhouse gas coal regulation will cost the US economy $700bn'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Coal controls are stupid, natgas is replacing coal as the primary power source for the last few years....'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coal consumption is down 20% in 5 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, should leave it alone then, just put in cleanness limits for new stations'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what new stations?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They already exist, new plants are extremely clean emission wise.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop legislation hitting them'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is the old dirty dozen of coal plants in the midwest that produce 40% of the co2 and sulphur dioxide in the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mmhmm, but it seems most people think it makes a ton of sense to make it next to impossible to build new ones so we can get rid of them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'co2 production has actually dropped in the US in the last 10 years thanks to increased efficiency in power plants.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't need to get rid of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as well as from cars'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is the need to do away with coal power?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coal is one of the best sources of stable base power around.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just charge for emissions and let the markets sort it out... they'll find the most cost effective way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and still provides with 48% of the US power supply.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about we don't, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sigh... too many opposed to sound economic policy...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh sure, more taxes and higher power prices....real good economic policy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all too common in the anti-intellectual crowd'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just do the math... deadweight losses are much smaller than other forms of taxation'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're already focused on emissions, so the most cost-effective way is to keep the old plants.  Make it easier to build new ones and we can just get rid of the old ones faster.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The same crap as deregulation.....lets deregulate the power grid, it will become cheaper and more efficient!!  Well, one thing is true...it did become more efficient.....as charging users more money for the power.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a large net benefit to the economy'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a fee for emissions would make it much more economical to swap out old plants. The 10 year costs would be much larger than building a more efficient plant'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'before deregulation in Texas, power was around 6 cents kwh, now it is around 12 cents'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and deregulation is often bad policy. Strong regulations are necessary for a free market'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and those regulations include pigouvian taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'carbon taxation and cross subsidy have caused electric prices in the UK to rocket'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but but but, now we can buy wind power.....wow wow wow, and it only costs an additional $5 per 500 kwh blocks of wind energy on top of the regular 12 cents per kwh.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so what if prices are higher, if people are richer for it...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they aren't richer for it'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't mind paying $10 more for power if my taxes decrease $20'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I will take coal at 3 cents kwh anyday of the year.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I always loved the checkbox that lets you request that "your" power be provided by wind...as if they're diverting where the power is coming from to your street'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that hasn't happened'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or my pay increases by that amount, or some combination of that'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'can also do solar, but at 18% efficiency we'd have to get rid of all the grass in our lawns to generate enough energy that way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where on earth have you got this crazy idea that higher energy prices means higher wages or less tax?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'taxes continue to go up, as do the prices ever since deregulation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the money doesn't go into a black hole, you know... govt doesn't collect money to burn it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd refute that, actually, but it's not the point'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the money was burnt on stupid smallscale renewables because of an anal carbon emission target the government signed onto 10 years ago or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'utilties need to be controlled, to prevent capitalism from sticking a pipe in your ass.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's clear when you calculate the deadweight losses of various taxation schemes, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'leaves the UK government still spending $4 for every $3 they receive in tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'one of the reasons california is crashing, and some european countries, because they thought renewables was the answer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, you guys have a problem with good regulation...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, it isnt the answer, and it never will be....it is only part of the solution, not the solution by itself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem is not renewables, riz, it's what SORT of renewables'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a large estuary with the 2nd highest tidal range in the world that with a barrage would produce as much as 5% of the energy needs of the country'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will they build it? will they bollocks'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'storage and transport is also problematic.  We're on the cusp, but basically battery tech just blows still.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the west has shown itself to be terrible at building free markets lately...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'poor regulation, taxes where there shouldn't be, no taxes where there should be, not charging for what should be charged...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welcome to the corrupt world of politics where the globalist hold all the power'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'says the guy who opposes charging for emissions...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree at a fundamental level with public-targetted property taxes, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our anti-congestion scheme back home is a good example of charging for stuff that should be charged...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you look at our govt budget, it provides a significant fraction of our revenues too!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your country is tiny'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'soz yers }:>'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the streets are too'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, i can reach out my arms and touch both sides'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the dynamics are different for small population countries to large'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we're talking about ratios here, so the size of the country isn't that relevant.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt it's different again for city states to island kingdoms to large land blocks'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for many things it is. i recall a discussion here about why it costs rural areas more to run services than city areas'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the point is that if you have a significant revenue source, it enables lower taxes elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'whether the country is large or tiny, that doesn't change'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's fine, but when your governments are run by globalists, they are not going to tax things that harm profit margins for their involved cliche'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod tiger, and that's why comparing things like ubiquitous broadband in the US vs nearly all other places is bad ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that's because too many fools panic over the higher prices of power should we begin to charge for emissions...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they only see the higher prices, and fail to see the large monetary benefits'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd prefer a less regressive tax policy'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a way to make this a very progressive scheme...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'take the money, split it, and give everyone the some same.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err same amount'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the point of taking money away from people then giving them back the same amount?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like tax credits all over again'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the point is to reduce activity which results in negative externalities'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if we sentenced more people to community service for their crimes, we would have a better world.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and one might note that keeping people over the poverty line reduces crime, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can be done by regulating the emissions on future plants'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'regulating the emissions gives a lot more opportunities for corruption than charging them'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's waffle'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and grasping at straws'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you impose a levy, there's an incentive to find a less polluting method'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just regulating imposes a sharp cliff'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no incentive to improve beyond the regulation'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's your pet policy, i can't sign onto it'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and people are more likely to cheat, since there's a discontinuity'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'viewing benefits as a potential, what you have a a potential cliff vs a gradient'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll not be financial transaction tax for much the same reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally a wall is not as good as a force distributed throughout the continuum'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i don't disagree with a financial transaction tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... I haven't analysed the benefits of a financial transactions tax, but to a first approximation, it doesn't look like a great benefit...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doesn't qualify as pigouvian'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think it would be better just to outlaw derivatives'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'negative externalities tend to result only from people not understanding certain types of transactions. Plain old regulation can help to address that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, however sensible, won't happen - they're the ones running it. Quite literally in Europe'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it might not help that our leaders sometimes like to lecture them on how to run things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I bet they aren't pleased that an ex-colony is looking down their nose and trying to tell them the right way to do things!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's our job, dammit!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, when they get into a big enough mess, they'll listen to reason, I bet'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they don't destroy themselves first...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the us isn't in a position to lecture on economics these days!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll take everyone down with them'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, we've diversified, and china's trade surplus is closing...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'a small financial transaction tax might be a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'would kill 99% of algos :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'taxes in the range 0.01-0.1% of transaction value'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPR6zeoDcZY&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't think europe will take asia down with it, unless they really screw up. Worse than I expect, anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Riversong: 'off'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just type the name of a channel to toggle it on/off (so just type "debate")'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '5ys of zero growth in Europe will slow down growth elsewhere, certainly'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'zero growth is a good scenario'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'overall not unrealistic, I think'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given their austerity policies, zero real growth for 5 years would be a decent outcome.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you also have to add in all sorts of effective money printing :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are, however, nightmarish scenarios...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'salami slice austerity never works'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you either retrench completely, or you don't do it'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and the austerity being mostly automatic (from reduced economic activity) rather than gov't spending cuts'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'austerity could intensify, and mass rioting could cause some to break apart... in the worse case scenario.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'civil unrest, Sonshi? that sounds like scaremongering to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they might find that if they keep tightening the screws like that, it might turn out worse than if they'd just nationalised stuff, defaulted, and reprivatised.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fact that there's already civil unrest in greece and spain notwithstanding, you say there'll be civil unrest they'll just brand you a kook, or an extremist'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The new year is going to be interesting in the US....the fiscal decision will need to be made, or mandatory custs of 20% will be instituted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if obama gets in, then that decision will not be made'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so 20% cuts it will be'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure that'll make him look pallatable to his baying hoards of welfare voters'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps voting should be compulsory'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'allow people to vote online.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, in person and in blood'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Yeah, just put a capcha on it.  Those work so well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They do early voting in Texas for 2 weeks before the normal election, but the lines are still super long'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be worse than those faulty touchscreen voting machines that pick the wrong candidate for you'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'My line wasn't long, walked right in and right out.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know, the ones that are made by a company now part owned by the Romney family....'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, but you don't live in Florida, Styx.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'No, I live in Texas, where he said his line was long.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jeb Bush said it won't be many years before Texas goes democrat because of the large demographic shift there'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I agree'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'We will see this year, but I think we are on the verge of swinging. Or at least becoming a battleground of some sort.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best they declare independence before that happens'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Texas swinging?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'THIS year?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, seriously, how could you POSSIBLY think that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'no, in the future.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'but the near future.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2026 or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Next 10 to 15 years yes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Texas is one of the most solidly red states in the nation, as far as I know. It won't be swinging for the next GENERATION.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'You are wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'put all texas polls in deep ellum...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless, you know, the Republican candidate is exposed as some kind of huge crook with irrefutable evidence, like he once murdered someone or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'There is a large swing to blue here.  If it continues at the same trend, it won't take 10 years before we are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm wrong? McCain-Palin got 55.4% of the popular vote in Texas in 2008.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'McCain-PALIN.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hmm, that looks like barely a majority to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The River Styx seems to think you have the right idea.
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama got 43.6%'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'McCain won by over 10%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a dream ticket that was'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'end sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just over 10 points, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'but its just over a 5 point swing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Remember, this was McCain-PALIN.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bush got about 60% there both times'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you say that like it matters who, in a discussion over red/blue'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Thats because he's from Texas.  Expected.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good point...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're all contradicting each other, have fun :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'need to go further back, sigh'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wouldn't be much of a debate if everyone was agreeing with each other, would it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'At least they were a bit saner this year. Romney won the Texas primary by a huge margin, over his more rightwing opponents (of course, Romney went on to jump on the rightwing bandwagon).'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'the farther back you go the redder it gets.  I'm just saying, watch on tuesday.  We WILL be red, but its getting closer and closer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The last time a Democrat won Texas was Jimmy Carter in 1976.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'dole got under 50% in 1996, with a 5% margin over clinton...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'With less than 100,000 votes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'margin was 3+% in 1992...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the population of Texas is going to double in the next 25 years, no chance in hell that it will stay conservative republican....it is becoming more moderate...which is good.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Closer and closer? Depends on the election. Bush got close to double Kerry's votes in 2004.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Yes, tons of tech transplants are coming into Texas.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how many electorals did mondale/ferraro get total for 84?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Dunno, but they got 1,949,276 votes vs. 3,433,428.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, they got one state'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'according to the US census, the population of Texas went up almost 50% in the last 10 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and DC'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When the heck did Texas become so Red, anyway? They always voted for the Democrat candidate up 'til 1920. Then they went on to return to voting for the Democrat candidate again in 1924, 1932-1948, 1960-1964, 1986.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And then WHAM, Republicans ALL the way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the largest increase was in hispanic people which is a little over 50% of the population now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Change my question to "Why")'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'If Tx goes blue, repubs might as well not even try. (Assuming other battlegrounds stay the same.)'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the dems and republicans switched sides on some issues at some point'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'remember that the republicans were the anti-slavery ones a long time ago...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they keep the names, but parties don't always resemble the one at its founding...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'conservatives hijacked the republican party in the 90s.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the republican party has been moderate for most of its history.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not most of my history alive. Which why I hate them with a passion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh, one measure of extremism... http://www.xkcd.com/1127/'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'interestingly, that measure also shows a rise in extremism prior to the great depression, which swept moderates into power later.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'didn't last long.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Should demographic changes greatly favour one party, you can pretty much bet that after a couple of consecutive election losses, the other party will change it's positions to capture voters near wherever the middle happens to be'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'like, say, labour parties did in Europe some years ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally yes...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'democracy at work!'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, considering 3 supreme court justices will most likely retire during the next presidential term....I would rather obama pick them than a highly conservative republican.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's not just the sc... the circuits are already heavily conservative...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if romney fills in those slots that obama has been unable to fill... they'll be overwhelmingly conservative for a generation'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, 1928 was the last year the republican party won the white house without a bush or nixon on the ticket'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'have to say it's a great tactic to block or threaten to block necessary appointments, when voters don't punish you for that kind of petty treason...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'what about reagan ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'reagon had a bush on the ticket...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'reagan*'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'reagan had a bush as vp'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bushsr doesnt count'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, his statement counts it'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what part of "a bush or nixon" don't you understand? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'jeb bush 2016'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it is probably more accurate to give credit for all the 1980s wins to Reagan'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, since reagan was pres from 80 to 88, umm, duh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody was "giving credit" to anyone for any period of time'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure you can find a way to reelect Jarrett in 2016'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sarah palin/jeb bush ticket 2016 !'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'maybe get nixon's kid to run on the "I'm not my dad" ticket'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 20 years there will be 50,000 wells or so drilled in the Bakken formation shale oil field of north dakota and montana.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a 20 year boomtown in western north dakota.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'probably another 25k to 50k drilled in west and south texas shale oil fields......in the next 25 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'companies are finding oil and natgas at every location drilled on the bakken.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'companies are also finding oil in old stripper wells that were abandoned over 30 years ago.....the permian basin in west texas is refilling with oil from the oil shale fields.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lots of new oil fields are being found around old oil fields in west and central Texas.....many of the extended wells producing oil and gas under its own high pressure.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 5 years, most of not all of the water used to frack wells in Texas will be recycled to frack more wells.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most if not all...'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '106 coal power plants have been shutdown, or will be shutdown soon since 2010.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just in the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Most of those plants will be replaced with cleaner natgas turbines.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Broker: '10'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'north dakota needs to use some of that massive budget surplus to build up the infrastructure in the northwestern north dakota area....'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the heck says "Ahnt" vs. "Ant"? Basically just the same pronounciation, only the "Ahnt" one is slightly more nasal or something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'do you mean Aunt or ant?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan. Go to Gametalk for full convo.'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'they sound the same from my mouth'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's wrong with "[carbonated] soft drink"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan again.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'lets keep it peaceful. just over a day away. Taking my own poll and not one of thos bias poll takers. Obama or Romney? What say you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'big buisiness .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: '1-1'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'anyone else'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Kuwait erupts in anti-establishment protests as government changes voting rules to make it easier for the encumbent party to stay in power. Protestors blame America for backing up unelected monarchies throughout the gulf states'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bill Mahers spouts more race-baiting hate speech on television. Is ignored by authorities'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Greece erupts in massive protests following Prime Ministers admission: "We couldn't renegotiate the loan repayments, we were dictated to by the troika"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'someone needs to annex Greece - basket case imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they need to leave the EU and devalue first'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'devalue and get back to what they do best'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh corruption is the problem - no internal force can deal with it - and leaving the EU is a precedent noone wants - so bring greece to its knees within the EU and then palm administration onto "The EU" imo - the start of centralist governance for the EU '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well we know that's the EU plan'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's called globalism, world government, a new world order. The elite have been talking about doing it for decades - now it's actually happening people stick their head in the sand and say it doesn't exist'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, reptiloids and all that'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU is run by reptiloids?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'something constructive Dagn ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'just trying to back up nuts'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, dagnir, people like Yuna and Gruagach don't understand at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'anyway, your conspiracy theory is bollocks'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? tell that to Greece'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell that to Italy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'two things - conflicting interests mixed with incompetence '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell it to Ireland'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell it to Portugal'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about to happen to Spain'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, sure, but it's not an illuminati/reptiloid conspiracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never said it was, dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bunch of elite who want a united states of europe'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that has always been their plan. On record'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'not a bad idea imho'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'transfer the power then remove the sovereignty, just like what has been going on in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Greece - reliant on hand outs - will not leave the EU - wil have to bow to funding - how the locals will take it - ? interesting - organized crime has already moved on imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'altho we should have western and eastern or northern and southern eu'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ask people who've lived under for Russian satellite communist states in Europe how much they liked that'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz mate the east calls the shots already .. the west has lost '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no need. my country was occupied by the soviet union for 60 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then ask your grandparents what it was like'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem here is that we are living under capitalism oligarchy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't want you telling me what it was like'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not telling you, i'm asking you to ask them'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we are moving backward away from a civil and democratic society, toward one run my corporations'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in all cases as long as ppl get 3 squares a day n TV you  can do what you like '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you're implying that you know it better than me'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet you think it's fine for those of us who DONT want to live under something like that that we MUST'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's not an attractive future'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my grandparents generation fought a world war to prevent stuff like this'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy you are a terrrist nodays mate - welcome to the price of free thinking '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'indeed'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and my grandparents have no reason to be greatful'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if there exists division, then all the more reason not to force everyone to live under one roof'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's huge desire to leave the EU in the UK but the establishment won't allow a vote because they know what the result will be'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'uk can't decide if it wants to be a state of the US or EU'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'tries to be both'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it can decide'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo the british isolationism will disapate in a gereration '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can decide quite happily, but the ruling elite disagree with the population, hence the weird halfway situation'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'both are hitched to slow horses - the left has hamgstrung the west in terms or comparative advantage - the east has no such qualms '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we cannot isolate ourselves -- we are controlled by the global corporpations -- pulling out of the EU would not change this -- if anything it would make the situation worse'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with that'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'for the west to pull themselves out of this they need to revery back to some form of non democracy because idiots vote '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'global corporations are a different issue, this is an issue of government being by the people for the people, answerable to the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'a government by the people, for the people, is meaningless if the only job of government is to do what the corporations tell them'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then don't do what the corps tell them'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you have to, otherwise the corporations screw up your economy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what the problem is with party politics, didn't George Washington himself say that political parties were a threat to democracy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that can be prevented'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'this is what happend in most of eastern europe, the "tiger" economonies and now western europe'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's government's job to keep them in check, not the other way. If you get to a situation where corps are too powerful, then government has failed'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guess what? governments have failed'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the ly of the land is thus imo - advertisment works - it costs money - ppl with vested interests buy a party advertising and it works so they are elected - so much for democracy - agaionst - this is what works - this is how we have to do it in the short term to win the east/west dollar war - not hamstrung buy idiots that are swayed by advertising and have a say in a military excersise '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i guess it's fun watching certain people vote themselves into poverty and extinction'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol that rant was brought to you by fill in the blanks .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sad if you are patriotic '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure there'll be some more arabian countries to destabilise and blow up innocent people to keep people's minds off domestic issues for a while longer'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so will you be voting for warmongering bankster-employed puppet a or warmongering bankster-emploed puppet b, tzad?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think the extended Arab Spring has bought the west a reprive in a way - destabilized isolationist economies and opened it up to the west in general - pity most of the value adding and margin for western products is done in the east '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you mean they've found some more victims to exploit?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'democracy is a dollar a vote - I will be modifying my buying patterns accordingly '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep and more ground lost to the east as they perpetuate an external value added sysatem '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll inevitably a confrontation with russia and china'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nah they want the bodies - lol soz -  consumers , in the west and have similar reigons and comparative advantage - ... militarily - what would you do ? my enimies enemy is my friend - for now '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ironic that Michael Moore, the self propelled stomach professes to hate capitalism and the free market system, yet made $120m using that same system'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia will side with china, india will probably side with china'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'props to him - we are in a landscape without saints -  everything is a spin job - concentrate on ur sphere of influence and plan accordingly '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep emerging economies will side together - goegraphy alone dictates this '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if romney wins, it will cost Paddy Power Ltd a fortune'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they lost $30mn when they paid out early on a Tiger Woods win a few years back (and Tiger Woods lost, so they had to pay out both ways)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol we both know that over listening of the average western idiot is to blame - not the figurehead - the system is flawed '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shall we let them rot then, tzad?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best get your "don't tread on me" flag out'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there is an apptitude test for my bunker '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'flag ? I have a "don't tread on me semi auto rifle and a few other toys  that all have the same mantra '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, i can't have that, defending yourself is illegal in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'same in Oz '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not allowed to own property here, either'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you didn't know that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't own property here, if you buy a property, you have to pay rent to the government'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you cannot buy land in the UK ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can buy it, but you won't own it'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I will have to pay rates here for the land being serviced by the council - ironically I was just employed by our local council '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's not rent, that's taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's rent'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Do you have a rent contract?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'contractual obligation was brought up in a court case about non-payment. Apparently the contract is implicit'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'No I (dad) will buy the place outright but I'll still have to pay for water sewerage rubbish removal '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, you can call it rent, if you want to, but I would call that a tax.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in that particular court case because the person in the dock had already at one time paid it, his one-time payment was considered implicit acceptance of the contract'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a tax because if you don't pay it, you get thrown in jail and they confiscate the property'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I call it monies outgoing - QED '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not based on earnings or consumption'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it cannot be avoided or opted out of'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is based on size of property here '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nuts, shouldn't you be doing something useful? like work or something?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'day off, dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'do you even have a job?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's your excuse? :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's how property taxes works pretty much everywhere, Tiger.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i stand against them, ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Now, that's a totally different issue.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'IO ! I have never worked for a wage in my life - first day today - never say not working is a bad thing unless you draw on the public coffers to do so imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok redefine stances ? pls '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'n Craig - roleplaying ... actually ask me if you want to interact with me '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'goss - roleplay - deb roleplay- roleplay - roleplay - pattern emerging ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz guys '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'back to it ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'back to what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'deb'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we agree, they don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'thus a deb is formed ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'first speaker for the affermative ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'difficult to debate someone when their only retort is "you're a conspiracy nut"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you get conspiracy - I'm just a nut '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cracked at that - Prozac superglue :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm still amused by Gruagach, told me i was a liar when i said that USA/UK masterminded the overthrow of a legitimately elected SECULAR socialist government in Iran in the 1950s'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then when i posted links and he saw I was correct, he just said i was a conspiracy nut and wore a tin foil hat'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'made my day :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unsure about that tbh - imo energy spent in gainful pursuits is a good life ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'did you breed yet ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you Tiggy '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no sir, too many people in the world, i'll adopt if anything'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I will breed - I want my genes in the world - if you value yours you will too imo - thatsa who we need to be telling the truth to '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and Ma'am pls if you want to get formal on me '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'do you really value your genes? I mean, it wasn't that long ago that you wouldn't even have heart of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think "being a sheep" is genetic, it's about conditioning'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tigernuts, definiately the species you are part of is genetic'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i understand your reasoning, i don't agree with it'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though if the neo-cons get their way and start wiping out large swathes of people with wars, i might change my mind'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'popular nurture over nature deb is currently 25% nature n 75% nurture I love my race and I want to perpetuate it - even if the act itself is distasteful to me - I like girls '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'will prob go IVF with a selected donor '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'neo-con ? explain ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what is a neo-con ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neo-conservative'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neo-fascist conservative'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you know I am roughly a neo nazi ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'less hate for others more love to my own race tho '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'perhaps neo nazi is too stronger a term '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I suffer from labels too '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporate st'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'again - explain ? soz fer being dumb'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's history on the term on wiki, but in a nutshell they support "nation building" by blowing the shit out of countries in the world in order to steal their resources'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''democracy at gunpoint''
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'evil twin to communism'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'very very very much alike'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just replace the communist party with a inner circle of huge corporate interests, then you've essentially got the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can we get over democracy as a term ? it is a herd manipulation - the original idea is dead '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always said that democracy works only within small populations'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo a benevolent dictatorship is much prefered - the relatve comfort a modern society affords and the spin it employs are th reason they don't revolt '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't believe in supporting the lesser of two evils'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'grr Tiggy - you know better than that - :"I don't" what .. pls ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol ok what is ur alternative ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'localism'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the first step, you return all power that it is reasonable to do back to country level (EU) or state level (US)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'inefficient - global localisim ? we are nuked back to the dark ages ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'second step return all power that is feasible to local level (county - US, UK)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's inefficient?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not taking advantage of comparitive advantage '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'explain'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is inefficient imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is inefficient? services are provided at a local level anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all that needs to be handled nationally is foreign policy and defence'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in the next county over I can mine lead and not have to test my workers for lead levels - that happened because they had a less effictive union and struck a worse agreement with the powers that be - I save money mining there rather than here - mining in China rather than Oz or the US '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you get competition, what's wrong with that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'What about environmental regulation? Since, you know, pollution doesn't respect state boundaries.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a wide umbrella, probably done at a state (US) or nation (EU) level'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we test for lead levels in workers for a reason .. and the same for pollution etc - as above so below - as we poison a worker so we poison an environment - yet in some countries they have to pay for this form of regullation in others not - margins show this '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy you know this stuff '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were localising, you'd start with a uniform policy and then local governments could tweak it accordingly. It's unlikely that a local government will start polluting, more likely they'll either be more pragmatic or more protective'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'I have to agree the government is unlikely to start polluting, however the company that owns the local government is quite likely.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mate local industry is already competing with a global supply/demand chain - a county that did this would just price themselves outta the market and the county ends up with high unemployment - high drug abuse rates and low life/social skills .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then enforce the rules'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't understand what you're getting at, tzad, in this hypothetical situation, nothing has changed yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the environmental protection policy is correct, nothing will change'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nuke China because they don't enforce environmental controls ? - too late - '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china hasnt really got anything to do with localism :=)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'this is happening Now - has been happening for a few decades - and the damn lefties didn't go global to enforce common sense after WWII and thus the decline of the west - imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lefties aren't terribly interested in that, they're more interested in destroying the west rather than stopping China from doing so'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we live in a global economy - China is the powerhouse - everything involves China imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a head-in-the-sand mentality with regards to china'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'I'm not sure I understand you correclty, but there are plenty of issues worthy of federal government oversight besides foreign policy and national defence. I'll leave it at that I guess.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cheap stuff from China meant they were happy to live on the never-never for 20 years without considering the implications'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there are, elxi'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't doubt that at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the direction of travel both in the US and the EU the last 20 years has been the other way, and that leads to division'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'education Elix is one area the west does not do well in compared to say the scanavian countries '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'education is a good area where national meddling has ruined the system in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'become so heavily beurocratic, specific, and targets-driven that standards have fallen'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would have been far better to set some basic standards and recognised qualifactions at a national level, then let local adminstration deal with ALL THE REST'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not dictate stupid things like telling kids what they're allowed to eat, and banning home-packed lunches'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in Oz we lumber under an umemployable class that do nothing more than keep gov agiencies employed and inflation down imo - not trally up on long term fiscal ripples '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the issue here with the unemployable class is cost of living'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cost of living has become so high because of political mismanagement over a number of decades that those employed with basic salaries are no better off, and often worse off than those living off welfare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'here is just 3-4 generations of welfare dependancy - kill em all I say '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'send 'em all to the front, eh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure i agree with that, they're as much victims as anything, they just don't realise it'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no - to the wall - have to arm em if we send em to the front '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'getting a lil pissy n hateful atm but if there was something quicker than AIDS it may be a good thing for the planet ... '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'perhaps alot pisst n hateful - I don't do things by halves '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think some haters on here would like to think i'm hateful, but i'm not'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps there should be a hater social'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'about this time of night Vixxy usually tucks me in n all is right with the world and I am less hateful .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'are you white ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more of a slightly inflamed red colour'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LOL wanna be a knight of hate ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hate is a waste of energy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'expressed internally I agree - vice versa - .. ur call '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hate is an expression of ones failure to come to terms with something'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given the low level of functionallity of 90% of the human race , better to get something from them than nothing ? personally , Yes I agree but .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What time do the first precinct report their votes tomorrow?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'something Gaia has taught me - reciprocity and alturism are best in the long term '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be wednesday for me, really'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I cultivate these ethical traits abouve all else - Gaia is ALL imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, unlike some, i support your right to believe in whatever you want'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unlike most I retain the tools to do so in the face of legal opposition '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'pry it from my cold dead fist !'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never had the tools'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illegal here'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan to Televangelicals: Ryan added that Obama's vision was "a path that grows government, restricts freedom and liberty and compromises those values -- those Judeo-Christian, Western civilization values that made us a great and exceptional nation in the first place."'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah here too ...... '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you know I live in Oz not the US Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't know the Judeo-Christian Bible preached small government and liberty for all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find he was referring to the seperation of church and state that is enshrined in the first ammendment, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we share the same laws  with respect to tools . '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the Bible preaches whatever you want it to preach'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except he fucking isn't.-'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though outside of a religious context, he was entirely right'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's talking about how Obama's working to separate church and state TOO MUCH.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Crowley "twist it till it fits, the curse of the average occult student is gulability" - words that speak to us all imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well if he said that, he's got it upside down'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It''
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's Paul fucking Romney. He lies on a daily basis.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Paul Ryan is a brown-tongue, he'll say what he needs to say'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He thinks Obamacare is encroaching on religious rights because there's a contraception clause in it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it is'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the same as preventing churches from selecting workers based on religion'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except it fucking isn't. There's a provision that allows churches to opt out.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it really should be an opt-in, not an opt-out'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the FUCK would opt in when it costs them more money?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then question it's validitiy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why? Because greedy assholes love money? What kind of logic is that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with the NHS offering abortions too'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh it does not matter who you vote for - you cannot vote for business ... this form of democracy is like being so busy grabbing ur ankles you fail to realise what ur posyerier indicates .. thats putting it nicely - modern democracy is a farce - the real power is in the dollar .. imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, then there's no help for you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'contraception, fine, in fact it should be promoted far more than it is now'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, seriously, I'm sick and tired of this "Judeo-Christian values are being threatened" bullshit. Just because your book says something, it doesn't mean it's an encroachment on your rights because the law says something different.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd prefer to see free contraception rather than free abortion'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your book also says to kill anyone who tries to convert you to a faith that isn't yours. I don't see it being legal to kill Mormons.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'free both imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'NHS healthcare isn't free, most of all not abortion. Stop fucking lying.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're right there'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither is Obamacare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aaaand nobody claimed it was.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So stop lying and then strawmanning.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you Paul Ryan's son? You seem incapable of speaking the truth for more than 10 minutes straight.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yuo should chill out, you're going to give yourself an aneurism'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You just got caught lying and defended yourself with claiming I'd woken up on the wrong side of the bed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'politics is suddenly relavent because of healthcare ? ... hmm '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tzadkiel, both me and Tigernuts live in countries with socialized healthcare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love mine, he hates his.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be better to describe it as corporate-welfarised healthcare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'profits are privatised, the costs and risks nationalised'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'both systems are better than the present US system imo but none even come close to the french system '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you even know how the Swedish system works?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was a description of the UK system'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no knowledge of the Swedish system'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm talking to Tzadkiel.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is based on very high taxes '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no knowledge of the French system, i do know about the US system though'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'See, or taxes aren't that horrible. And we make MORE to make up for it, so what we get to keep after taxes isn't much smaller than what most other countries' average workers get.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And most of those taxes do NOT go into healthcare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'some of the highest taxed personal income brackest in the OECD and yes education in scandanavian countries is tha Bomb too ! - better a benevolent dictatorship than a free markeket economy - I agree'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'France spends 11.2% of their GDP on nationalized healthcare, Sweden only 9%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course it's great. It's fucking free.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the figures for UK are screwed because they exclude "social protection", and of course, it's restricted scope, and not actually free anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All the fucking way. Uni used to cost, like, 40 bucks a semester. Now it's absolutely free.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so we all leaving for Sweden on the next visa run ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you want beer that is $10 a pint, tzad?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or is that Norway?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depends, are you in a swanky bar?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't drink in bars, so I don't really know how much beers costs in bars.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But 33 cl beers cost, like, 3 bucks in the supermarket.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so grow up in Sweden - make business in China and get sick n die in Sweden - sounds like a plan ! I love globalisation !'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for how many?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's hard to tell because of the way the figures are prepared, but it looks like in 2010/11 the UK government spent 27% of it's income on healthcare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For 1, obviously.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that'llchange with the baby boomer glut coming up to sickness time - isn't that soon ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$3 for a coke-can sized beer? and that isn't expensive?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not 10 bucks a pint.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a SUPERMARKET'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'supermarket beer is actually one of the few things in the UK that has been inflation-proof the last 10 years. Pub beer hasn't fared so well'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, I misspoke. It's 2 bucks for 33 cl.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typically looking at $5 a pint in a pub. $10 will get you a crate of 12 33cl'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then, there's also 500 ml (1 pint+) beer for 2 bucks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'SO it depends on the brand and where you buy your beer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'around christmas you also can get 24x 500ml cans for $15'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I get a carton of beer here 30 cans for 45 dollars - but the bottle of bubbles - Moet - cost me 70 - n really did a number on my head too - was wierd - has to do a whole heap of vodka to get back to normal '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'supermarkets tend to turn them as loss leaders'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wish they'd split the duty paid of alcohol here to reduce the duty on draft served in pubs and increase it on supermarket beer. It would help pubs and help against home-alcoholism'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol Oz loss leader .. beer ... very low margain but almost a duopoly in supermarkets n brewers - they don't need to - is more based on brand loyalty with beer '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the Hell is pub alcoholism better?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pubs don't serve drunk people'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That doesn't mean you can't get drunk in pubs. They just stop once you're actually drunk.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'more chance of a social loss violence event at a pub :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regardless, pubs encourage responsible drinking'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol Oz pubs encourage excessive drinking '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and social drinking'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pubs encourage drunk fucking driving.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do not'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see... drinking in pubs vs. drinking at home.-'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which one is more likely to produce a drunk driver?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you may as well say alcohol encourages drunk driving'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd say even possibly the home drinking is more likely to, since alcoholics tend to drink ALL day'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in Oz cities they bust both ends of a pub strip regularly with drink drivers - incidence is really low - rural and small towns  - is a diff story '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'and driving encourages drunk driving'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's strange how few alcoholics there are in Sweden and how few cases of drunk driving we have. How very strange...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'cos it's so expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's marginally more expensive than in other European countries that aren't Britain.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or, you know, borderline developing countries.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Alcholism is a more closely related to poverty than to price'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as an Ex drunk driver - Starl gave me a serve one day after I'd been down  a few back roads to the bottlo n back - I don't do it anymore  just stockpile the stuff at home now - plan for a month or so in advance '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'drink driving is rare here'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have among the safest roads in the world'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'where I came from - central Oz - the blacks would regularly blow .2-.3 unregistered car - no ticket etc - come from a lawless place into there where they can drink - go overboard n ... disappear back out bush ... '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just requires a bit of common sense and pragmatism'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'steering people in the right direction without clamping down so hard that peoples balls fall off'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think the UK policy on drink driving is probably a little too strong, but not by too much'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Most people DON'T have common sense.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a lot of offences that don't need to exist because other laws already cover them'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nah fuck it - let ppl in remote communities drink - let them get the full wieght of  "self determination" and deal with it - save the community kicking the fuckups out and into white towns and overloading the pigs in town - all on taxpayers dollars - they are unemployable '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prime example is "drinking while over the prescribe drink drive limit", it already covered by "drinking while unfit due to drink or drugs"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"causing death by dangerous driving" is covered by "manslaughter"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'vehicular manslaughter'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the vehicular bit is irrelevent, consider it a weapon'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hows welfare in the UK ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in what way?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welfare in the uk has a tendency to ill-protect those who need protecting, while encouraging those with no intention of working for themselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'this is entirely true'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's insanely complex, ill fitting, and beset by all manner of problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'just not very much of a tendency to do this'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they call it "sit down money" in central Oz - unemployable ppl not training and breeding recipients of tax payers money to perpetuate thier lifrestyle - same there ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much, it's been an "in-joke" for decades that if you're a 16yr old girl without an acamedic background, the school careers adviser would advise "get pregnant - you'll get a free apartment and more than enough money to live on"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the welfare extends to people who don't need it - we spend $10bn a year handing back tax money to workers in the form of "tax credits"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I spent a year on the dole once'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'support mandatory birth control for welfare recipients ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it was pretty good actually'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole tax/welfare system is set up to benefit the ultra rich and the ultra poor. IN the middle, unmarried childless workers get completely screwed'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I would like that, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think birth control should be mandatory for welfare recipients'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could make a case for disabled people'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(case against it)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it doesn't really solve the long term issue'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as would I - in the mean time lets catch the ones we can and make soylent green to feed the rest of em - just RU-$*^ soylent green ... I see inflation rising :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you really need to deal with the underlying problems before you can do anything about welfare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'absolutely, the sooner we have stronger workers rights and a dynamic union movement, the sooner we can make it more attractive to be in work than not'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'need to address housing too, swalec, a large council-house building program could be used to manipulate the housing and rental markets DOWN in exactly the same way that the mortgage bubble, derivatives and council-house sell-off in the 80s drove the housing market and rental prices up'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo any union rights need to be global .. ref to the comparative advantage deb of a few hours ago .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and would be far better to piss away $50bn on social housing than a crackpot highspeed raillink that only the 1% will ever use'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unions are not within the scope of government, tzad, so you could have global unions without requiring global government'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just saying the two are not incompatible'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Falungong- China - social activities are highly regulated in certain countries .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are becoming so here too'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's all starting with speech'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like Facebook's selecting implementation of a ban on political speech'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'selective policing of 'tweets''
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you have more hope in the 1% to motivate the 99% than I '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'selective clampdowns on protest'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tigernuts, the problem of unions without government is that the corporations that do most of the employment just persecute everyone involved'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why you need to address the government issue'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'solidarity .. etc etc '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, international government'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can never influence international government'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'global democracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'UN - ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(i don't think Swalec's been listening)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does China have strong trade unions?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cut the bloke some slack - we are far from writting our manifesto :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ironically was borne of Mao - the reform of China was a socialist movement '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if china doesn't have strong workers rights, then an international government will not have strong workers rights. Democracy is 2 wolves and sheep voting on who is for dinner. The USA isn't half the world's population. The entire NATO backed west is not half the world's population. The rest of the world doesn't share the same views'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so nuke em now while we have a chance at superiority :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's Romney's plan, Tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't fault it on paper - can't see such an inefficient machine as the US doing it tho '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't go and give the Eugenicists ideas, nuking china would give them 20% or so of their population reduction target'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I support Eugenics '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you really ought not to'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I get the joke tho '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some want to achieve it through war, some (like Mr Gates) wants to do it by rendering Africans infertile'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I dont want Mongolisim to spread - nor welfare dependance  - so staralize em while recieving tax dollars imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd rather build them up, not knock them down'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'birth rates drop when a population becomes educated, free, and wealthy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'humans have reached locust numbers and demand  even more in resources - frag it - lets be selective '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unfortunately the selective process will involve the same institions that brought us the problem ..  enter stage left - terorism -- anti establishment '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have grown progressively intoxicated over the last hour or so - am I still making sense ? even if you do not agree with me ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your hitler moustache has been showing, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I said I was a Neo Nazi - with more love n less hate '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you support nuking China, I doubt most Chinese people wanted the west to install Mao Zedong in 1949'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol nuke is such an ugly word - and I have read - I still have the little red book - is interesting - like leftist koans - I don't really wanna nuke anyone - racially selective boi warfare leaves the planet so much better off imo - see - I am a greenie !'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the green movement got co-opted by the liberals, you realise'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence the whole 'global warming' fraud'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm orf for a swim and to fit a new gfx card'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'enjoy your beer'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cheers !'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'orf .. must be cultural .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, public transport in Baltimore now has microphones to record the conversations of the public'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I feel safer already'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't you just :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'been happening in the UK in taxis for years. we also have more cctv cameras than people'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in addition, the police can track cars throughout 95% of the main road network through automatic numberplate recognition equipped cameras'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the underclass riots after tomorrow, make sure you've got popcorn'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and a shotgun)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Honestly folks, here in the US its just about turnout. I've read so many polls and their sampling and have determined that the line is: 36 DEM and 34 REP. If that holds true, its a dead tie. If it changes one way or the other, we'll know who will win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '(This is an opinion)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd be interested to see what the third party effect is'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '36/34?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK could that be true?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, the rest being independent.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'language, Timothy'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You mean as in "Will never vote for the other side".'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, no, no, I mean turnout percentages of the voters.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think democrats will have a higher turnout?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Consider this poll in Michigan: 47-46 Romney. But, look at the PDF attached, they sampled 42/36 DEM/REP. (link coming)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've heard a lot of talk that their turnout will be lower'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/link/597723/final-michigan-election-poll-for-2012-election'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'page 22'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Error, 43/35 was their sample.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is all hand wavey prove-anything-you-like statistics, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well Tigernuts, the real problem is no one knows exactly who will show up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And in what proportion. If we did, we could tell who would win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why the old addage that the only opinion poll that matters is the actual vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'In the interest of FD: I absentee voted on October 2nd, and I'm in a very blue state - New Jersey.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should've voted GJ :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'GJ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would have been my advise to anyone undecided. Strong blue or strong red state? vote GJ, tossup? vote Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gary Johnson'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'hahaha, that's a waste of a vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'no vote is a waste.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But I can understand your perspective completely Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're in NJ and voted Romney and you tell me that a vote for Romney wasn't a wasted vote?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its wasted for the sense of it mattering who wins. It's never a waste to exercize your right to vote. In fact you should always vote no matter how you think the outcome of your state / county / etc. will go.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole idea of getting the GJ vote out is to secure funds for next election with a view to getting a large enough presence to get into the debates/media'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually, usually the goal of a 3rd party is to make enough waves to get the other 2 to pay attention.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It happened in the 1890s and 1990s.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a reasonable target'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Perot made enough of a dent for the establishment to send death threats to his family'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'In fact, you could argue that the switch of liberal/conservative positions that happened in the 1890s was in large part due to the Progressive movement.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Not sure how anyone could advocate voting for Romney tho, but to each their own'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly the same as anyone advocating voting for Obama, Styx :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'll tell you my three issues. I'm an issue voter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you guys have a Hobsons choice'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Ill take the lesser of 2 evils every time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there isn't a lesser of two evils'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: '1.) Deficit 2.) Jobs in my area 3.) Iran and nukes. Based on that, I think Romney has a better chance of doing better than Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Its an opinion, but those are the top three that matter to me the most.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Warmongering globalist puppet A or warmongering globalist puppet B. Which is the least evil?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Why would nukes in iran matter for someone in the US?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'social issues matter to me the most. I have a job, and I damn well could get another one if I lost this one, I don't need the governments help.  But I don't want my government shaping its policies based on the religion of 1 man.  Ever.  And I feel like republicans and especially Romney will do that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I understand you and hear you, Styx'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why do you only "feel" he will? He's blatantly TOLD us he will.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i seriously doubt Romney's religion will have any impact whatsoever'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As does his running mate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Exactly'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Cite please'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anymore than Obama's upbringing affected his'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yesterday, Paul Ryan blatantly said that Obama and Obamacare encroaches on religion freedom and that they're a danger to Christian-Juedo values.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'His policies on womens rights and other social issues directly reflect his religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It does.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Catholic hospitals around the country will close down if they lose their lawsuit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'No it doesn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They're against same-sex marriage, contraception, abortion, the list goes on. Pretty sure their religion has a whole lot to do about that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's going to create havoc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Both candidates are religious nuts. It's just that romney hates more people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'it keeps employers from being able to discriminate and control healthcare based on religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, they're opposed to handing out contraceptives and doing abortions - against their will.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There is NO mandate that requires religiously affiliated organizations to provide free birth control to their workers.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If hospital X says, we dont do this here - go somewhere else. You can't just force them to go against their beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's a mandate giving them the option to opt out. So what lawsuit are you talking about?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Hospitals should not have beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The catholic church against the US government, i'll get you a link. Still looking for your cite from earlier'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That Romney-Ryan are religious nuts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on who runs and funds the hospital, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'http://www.charismanews.com/us/33460-43-catholic-groups-file-suit-against-obamacare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Where is this quote that you said Yuna. Please send link.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Or you Styx'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Just because they file suit doesn't mean its viable'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, private organizations can do what they want, of course. I meant real hospitals, that take care of regular people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the vast majority of "real hospitals" are private organizations...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021699583'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, more credible source: http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/11/03/1134661/romney-robocall-accuses-obama-of-threatening-our-religious-freedom/?mobile=nc'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'what qoute?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'quote'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah I think Romney is referring to this same lawsuit..'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'May be true. In that case, they should not base decisions on religion. It should be illegal, really, in a secular country.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As per Ryan's new quote: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/04/paul-ryan-social-conservatives-religious-freedom_n_2074129.html'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'well it depends, one thing Yuna's link says is that they provide insurance coverage'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So what exactly is insurance coverage? An abortion?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/mitt-romney-religion-obama_n_1759393.html'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney ad claims Obama's declared war on religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Both Romney and Ryan have both said they will and have shape their policy based on their religion.  That is wrong and it shouldn't happen.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The fastest typist in the world can type 212 wpm in 5min, her avg in 50 minutes is 150 wpm'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They're against sterilization now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not only that, Styx, it should be illegal imho.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Yes Ranrr, it should be.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, there's no such thing as "abortion drugs". That's clearly a bullshit religious whackjob website.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK i read that, thanks Yuna. So, this *same* topic has been made by democrats to sound like a war on women'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet to find any facts either way in these posts'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What they're talking about is the morning after pill, which is a form of contraceptive.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'technically it is.  Its called seperation of church and state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't the media wonderful'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Actually the morning after pill is an abortificant'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Contrary to poular belief, the morning after pill doesn't cause an abortion to occur, it merely prevents conception if conception has not already occurred.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it is not.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Explain, scientifically / biologically'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Yuna is right, it doesnt cause abortions'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_contraception'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'it keeps conception from happning at the latest stage possible.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How about you fucking educate yourself before speaking against your betters?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I believe that some morning after pills contain abortificants'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But i'll read the link'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A simple Google search or Wikipedia search would've told you INSTANTLY how wrong you are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your beliefs are bad and you should FEEL bad!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the fuck cares about your BELIEFS? The FACTS speak for themselves.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I dunno if your better Yuna, but you shouldn't attack someone like that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Shows just what kind of a person you are when you frequent religious whackjob blogs and believe morning after pills are "abortificants".'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the FUCK is an arbotificant, anyway?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from what i can read, there's a difference between how the law applies to religious institutions and employers who are religious, or work with religious institutionsa#'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Styx, November has a history of spewing bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it looks like you're ALL right, including Paul Ryan - well done'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I can't remember what it was last time, but I believe he said Obama's either a Muslim or not a natural-born citizen.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK so wait a minute. Mifepristone is the abortificant. Which one does the religious organization oppose to handing out? ECP or Mifepristone or both'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'So do you.  Everyone has a right to their opinion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Even if its wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, you can hold an OPINION. But when you spew LIES, it's not OK.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'most opinions are based off lies.  Even yours.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'As a Catholic, I would say both. So why should a Catholic hospital be forced to hand out ECP or Mifepristone?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would have liked to have seen how they define "religious institution". It probably means they have to be registered as a charity via that CT513 or whatever the hell it was called'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's a difference between saying "I believe..." and "This is true because of the following (disproven) 'facts'".'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I need to recolor this channel from red, it looks so hostile'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts winks at Taokan.
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just make sure you leave Yuna's posts in red, Taokan'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Noone is forcing the churches to hand them out.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this whole argument has nothing to do with what the churches THEMSELVES can or cannot do'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Religions institutions should be able to bypass all laws they disagree with" is bullshit reasoning, anyway. The Conservatives claim Muslims are trying to pass Sharia laws when they're doing the exact same thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Right TN'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They don't like certain kinds of people? Demand legislation allowing them to discriminate against them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look, Mitt Romney is saying that Obamacare/Obama is a war on religion because - in one big case - Catholic hospitals are being forced to go against their beliefs by handing out ECP or Mifepristone.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the FUCK cares if some no-name Christian is forced to do something they dislike when they are working in the PUBLIC sector?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And in this country, our success is definately because of (one reason among many) our religious freedom.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'No they aren't. You are completely inaccurate November.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Churches should follow the same rules as any other organization. Including not fucking boys, and paying taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Then why the lawsuit?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Exactly. If churches can't pay for themselves through tithes, why the fuck keep them around?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why do we need so many of them, anyway? Tear the less "lucrative" down and merge parishes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Like I said, just because someone filed a lawsuit doesn't make it viable.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sure, Styx.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, Obamacare is actually going to force this upon them. I agree exemptions can be made, but unless things have changed, I don't think they're being made exempt.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just because it's a "Catholic" church, it doesn't mean they can do whatever the fuck they want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'simple solution, ditch Obamacare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's next, turning patients away for care because they're gay, teen mothers, single mothers, divorcees, not-Christians, etc.?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They don't like having to follow the law? Stop being a fucking hospital.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'contraception isn't healthcare'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They have to uphold the law Yuna. But, when that law violates their moral beliefs - the constitution has to be questioned and it does support religious freedom. Its not like people can't go to a different hospital.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They can. So why push this on their beliefs? That is why it is called a war on religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It supports religious freedom and freedom from religion, as long as they follow the law. Not that all and any religion are free to do WHATEVER they want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No law shall be made that specifically encroach on religion freedom or freedom on religion. Obamacare, however, affects ALL healthcare providers.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not just religious ones. Thus, the constitution plays no part here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be a different argument if they were refusing to treat gays'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, but which is greater - the law or Truth given by God? Catholics will always want to do the first one but will object when it violates the second.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like arguing that hates crimes legislation encroaches on the religion freedom to bully/discriminate/beat up/kill minorities.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Which group is claiming that to be religious freedom?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said it would be LIKE arguing that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, key word there is Congress.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't say a law is violating the right to freedom or religion simply because your religion disagrees with it!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just because you said it, doesn't mean it WOULD be like arguing that :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The states and counties etc can do whatever they want on religious freedom.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The law does not prohibit the free exercise of religion. They can discriminate however they want... as a religion. Just not as a hospital.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence why obamacare should be ditched and state-level versions used'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I think you're bringing up a larger debate about the Philosphical differences between our Constitution which is founded in the Declaration of Independence vs. some other system such as Sharia law.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you're just bad at comprehending basic English.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'These systems all have philosophical backgrounds about the state of man, and they don't all agree.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'exactly, yuna: you believe that your beliefs trump anyone else's...and disagree with anyone who takes that same stance from their own perspective'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not my fucking belief, it's how the Supreme Court of the United States defines the 1st amendment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, 2nd.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or whatever the freedom of religion one is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'that's the 1st'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the 2nd is guns'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is your fucking belief, you belief that religions can go fuck themselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Andurien laughs at Summoner Yuna mercilessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said it several times today: Religious people can do whatever the fuck they want... if they do it in the privacy of their churches or whatnot.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, I think the problem is Yuna that in this country there was a founding principle of freedom of religion that couldn't be violated by a Federal government (note Federal, not state or local). In this case, one religious group feels like it is being violated by a Federal law.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Abelinc is secrety a huge troll'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But if they're in the public sector, such as a hospital, they have to follow the fucking law.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'thank you for agreeing with me'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'If the SC sides with Obamacare, then Catholic Hospitals will start shutting down.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the fucking law is wrong, hence the suit'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Because they just will morally object to following the law by not providing services'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why are Catholic churches running hospitals, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'to help people'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, but why do we need special religious hospitals?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because they're the ones doing it'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You don't understand. Why do we need to distinguish them as Catholic hospitals? Why not just hospitals funded by a church?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a very large percentage of hospitals are run by religious organizations'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We don't call hospitals run by Atheists Atheist hospitals.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'See this is the problem with liberalism I have at its core: When you use the Federal government to enact your social policies - you do it with the force of a gun. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They should just be hsopitals, plai nnd simple.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if they were run by an atheist organization, sure I would'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but there are no such institutions'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And Pope John Paul II said (cant find exact quote) that whenever a government tries to do something it thinks is divine, it ends up being a demonic act.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, and hospitals, plain and simple, should not be subject to that law'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sure. No hospital, ever, is run by non-religious people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you didn't say run by nonreligious people'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said Atheist. Which is close to being non-religious.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless you equate the word "Atheist" with "People who run around trying to convert others to Atheism" or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, there's a difference between a hospital administrator having a belief, and the hospital itself being owned, funded, and fOUnded by that belief'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, some religious organizations found hospitals because it is their belief that they should do these things. And, these hospitals have helped millions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so I'll reiterate, there are no hospitals run by an atheist organization'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Sometimes the poorest people who really can't afford it seek help and get it there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet there are hospitals run by non-religious organizations?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm sure there are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you fucking insane?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Being non-religious INCLUDES being an Atheist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah like Virtua is in my back yard. I dont think there's a religious organization behind it. Virtua is a business.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You CANNOT be non-religious, yet not Atheist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the FUCK is YOUR definition of "Atheist", Abelinc?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think you can Yuna. I call those people practical athiest. A practical athiest is someone who believes in God, but God has no real impact / involvement in their lives.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Andurien kicks back and enjoys the view. 
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'being atheist is a particular religion...being non-religious, by virtue of this discussion, is merely the absence of being a religious organization, not being a different religious organization'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, the mere fact that God exists doesn't really mean much to them one way or the other.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, you're wrong. Atheists do not believe in deities. End of story.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck is wrong with you, Abelinc?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are no organizations, whose purpose is to promote atheism, running hospitals'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Practical athiests are not athiests Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They are two separate things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the fuck is wrong with me is...I actually comprehend things and think them through...the fuck is wrong with you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I give up. I welcome Chemosh back. At least his insanity had some reason to it (him being insane and all).'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Atheism is not a religion. It's a lack of belief in a deity or deities.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"an organization which has no religious bearing"...."an atheist organization"...two totally different concepts'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This does not preclude any belief in a higher power, however, as Buddhists are Atheists.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is a very specific religion'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to which credible source? Find me ONE.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, like Virtua Hospital in New Jersey vs. St. Mary's Medical center in Pennsylvania.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'according to the definition'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The first one doesn't care about Obamacare. The second one does very much.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If it's according to the definition, it should only take you 3 seconds on Google to find a credible source defining it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'http://atheism.about.com/od/whoareatheists/a/PracticalAtheis.htm'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'exactly 3 seconds'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wasn't talking to you, November!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're confusing religion with organized/institutional religion...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, who the FUCK cares about what some "religious theists" use to describe "those theists who technically believe in a god, but who behave immorally"?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're confusing a lack of a specific belief as a fucking religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'This is a public channel Yuna, if you want to talk to me directly or Abelinc directly, send tells.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'atheism is not lack of a belief'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DEFINE Atheism. NOW.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'atheism is defined expressly by its belief, not lack of'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm just trying to prove Abelinc's point that there is such thing as practical athiesm.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'abelinc's point is NOT that there's such a thing as practical atheism!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'atheism is the belief in the non-existence of deities'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, its that you can be non-religious but still believe in God or a god.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that is a belief, not a lack of belief'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or, you can say and that it is the lack of belief in deities.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the fucking same thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you still believe in god or a god, you're not atheist'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's still not a religion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It does not have ceremonies, rites, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'lack of belief is different than belief in the lack of'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's ORGANIZED religion, not what a religion IS'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Atheism has absolutely nothing to do with any of that. It simply, in YOUR word, states that there are no deities.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it most certainly does have to do with that'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what, I'm hungry and you're insane. Have a good day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yuna, cite link defining Atheism as you see it'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the only parts it doesn't have to do with are the ones containing "usually involving", and "often containing"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which, by their very nature of modification, are declaring are not necessary for the satisfaction of the definition'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'the facts are that they are requiring them to allow their employees a path to get to contriceptives l'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'erm oops?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'What I get for leaving an unfinished comment in my buffer'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all finished on the faith-bashing now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'did i miss more of that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, a few hours back, yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yuna and the normal suspects leading their anti-faith charge'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'aah-'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'haters...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'lol... "anti-faith"'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd liken it to the witchfinders of old, but instead of persecuting witches, he persecutes anyone who expresses mildly religious leanings'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i was raised catholic, but as i grew over i saw the hipocracy in the church and just decided an open minded self-explored understanding of religion and 'god' far out shines any religious sects- usual indoctrination but religion on a whole is a good thing :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jesse Ventura 2016!!! (who said that?)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'with the way many societies (I'm looking at you, U.S.) treat their non-theists, I'm not surprised that agnostics and atheists hold a lot of resentment'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'what do you mean, the way we treat our non-theists?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the non-theists are quite happy to prop up some pretty horrific religious regimes abroad'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '*cough*saudiarabia*cough*'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '*cough*bahrain*cough*'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Non-Theists support Bahrain and Saudi Arabia?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In what Alternate Universe?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the universe where UK very recently affirmed links to Bahrainy royal family and government?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the universe that USA has an army base there?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The UK is non-Theist? In what alternate universe?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The US is non-Thesit?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'only 16% believe in god in my country. lowest in europe'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Since when? 2065?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where the HELL do you live, Dagnir?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'estonia'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'church attendance is under 2% here'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I have absolutely nothing to say to that then. I have no insight into Estonia.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'practicing christians are outnumbered by practicing muslims'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not attending church =/= Being non-theist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'the people of the US are of all religious or non-religious back-grounds.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I mean that atheists are generally regarded as synonymous with immorality and criminality for some reason... in the U.S. atheists are regarded (by a poll of average citizens) as the most distrusted minority, below muslims, homosexuals, and rapists'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK 51% described themselves as not religious'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a christian, a muslim, and a jew walk into a bar...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'and that atheists are legally prohibited from holding public office in 6 states'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '23% in sweden, yuna. ranking third'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... all three weren't in their home country, so they ordered a round of drinks'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'thats only 6 states'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'but above blacks?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'and tbh i love state laws :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '0.8% described themselves as Jedi'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '23% of people are what in Sweden, Dagnir? Religious or irreligious?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'atheists'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure the number is much higher.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'oh, sorry, 23% are religious'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'no, below any other minority group'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yah...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm also pretty sure it's still that "high" only because of immigrants, of all religions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'So... Evolution vs Creationalism...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Seiph'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'hahaa'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bad Seiph! no biscuit!'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Swedes since generations back are predominantly irreligious.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'ok how about this one.. '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'creatonism is an american thing. no-one else believes that shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I apologize on behalf of the United States'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and africa'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'hadron collider, good or bad?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, we have potentially located the God Particle. So good for now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what kind of question is that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'i like to think science is badass and all- but why?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the particle punisher is fucking awesome'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'll get back to you if we create a massive black hole, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'hehe the god particle'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'probably the most awesome thing the humanity has ever built'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'scientific progress is always good... but I admit I don't quite understand the Higgs Boson or Higgs field too well'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'isnt that about as solid as string theory?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only people have a problem with Creationism is idiots who believe the bible literally, or those too stupid to understand what a bible is, and what it represents'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Wasnt the hadron collider also built to study black holes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'can't create a massive black hole tho. the keyword there is "massive". conservation of mass n shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and it's too tiny to collide planets or suns'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '(sadly)'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could create a sizeable explosion, but not much more'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'any of you guys ever see that simulation of Andromeda and the milky way colliding?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah. awesome'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'oh, btw, there's a game called universe simulator. get it on steam'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'yea it was, i wish i could witness that from alittle off in space :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'haha oh yea?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'looking it up as we speak'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah. you can simulate the collision or our star system, for example'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and fuck with parameters like gravity etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'so basically- if you wanted to be a benevolant asshole god - this siumlator is for you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'dunno. it's more like a visualizer and a sandbox'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'is it universe sandbox?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'pretty much'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's what it's called, at least'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'aye, looking at it now- going to have to debate if i want to spend 10.00 on it or not :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hmm. just noticed that i called it "universe simulator" the first time for some reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'haha is.. that not the right one?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'universe sandbox'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'uh oh'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: '"Create and destroy on a scale youve never imagined..." '
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'thats the bait for me, i love destruction games. Red Faction was amazing'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hmm. launched it now and checking out jupiter+moons'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and i can destroy jupiter. let's see what happens :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'afk a bit as well'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'apparently, exploding jupiter with pieces flying out 10km/s doesn't do much'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'damn gravity well'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jameson: 'so whats on the debate channel'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'apparently the US government gave away state secrets in Bengazi'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you hurry, you can probably arrive at the consulate in time to grab a few sheets for yourself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest polls put romney ahead 1% countrywide, will still probably lose'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US debt tops $53,000 per person'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '53k is nothing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we can talk when it gets to $200k'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that figure i suspect, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe not'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'japan has a larger debt than we do per capita.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true, but most of theres is owned by the japanese people, yours is owned by china'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so do a lot of other countries actually.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, we are not stupid enough to buy our own debt. :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'other countries owning your debt is not actually a problem, so long as the debt is in your own currency'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'notice that the main use of that USD that directly impacts the US economy is when someone eventually decides to buy some american product or service...'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm guessing Anonymous -didn't- turn up to storm the white house like they promised'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"It doesn't matter who casts the ballot, only who counts them" - Jo Stalin'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if that were really true, why bother counting in the first place?'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illusion of choice and involvement'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'UPS should join the modern world and switch out those bread trucks to automatics.....a good automatic can get just as good or better mileage than those old read trucks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Since there was a guy who was president for two consecutive terms.'
T3/r7/2012-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As usual, Maine was first to ratify it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'eve of the election. Ill be so glad when this crap is over.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Weird to have an election in the middle of the week. No wonder so few people find time to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's always tuesday'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, that's the weird part.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Ran, i always find that weird too and never have really grasped that concept. You think it would be on a weekend. Most people get off of work between 4 and 6. Most workplaces though are required to let you off early to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what are the early numbers saying ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'G'day btw :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'who won Ohio ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '- is winning ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's 2am...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'doh - have the yank news on in the background .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, in Australia, the US elections should be over by now :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In Sweden elections are always on a sunday. Dunno if it improves partitipation, but at least most people have time to go vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just got home from work  - daylight here - lol soz .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'this just in. Obama has won Ohio.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You grin evilly at him.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tzadkiel D
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'sorry. LOL I just had to put that joke out there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you do that mate could use a smile after today .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Im jsut ready for this stuff to be over. I want my TV back without political ads.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Olyimpics all over again .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'i dont want any one of them to win. I think we need some new blood that isnt party affiliated.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given the huge costs involved in campaigning .. not gonna happen imo \'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'and i agree with you 100%. its a political dream that is very slim from hapening, but could.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in Oz we have a few splinter parites - greens , democrats nationals - they actually can carry the balance of power '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but due to economic rationalism both sides of politics are so centralist imo greens are the standout but otherwise ... the wholle system has little teeth if at all imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'when do the polls actually open?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in Ohio over 2 mill have voted early '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'im jes wondering when they are actually going to start counting?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given it's 0200 there .. not yet '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they won't start counting until they find out how many votes mittens need :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'so you think Mitt will win?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you old cynic you !'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if they count votes that way, he will win :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'you have to remember, Obama is from Chicago. There has been alot of crooked politics coming out of that state alone.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'based on the " hey I didn't change much cause I was blocked"  argument ... good luck to him '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Rahm Emanual did ALOT of shady things and got away with it. He's from Chicago.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'NEWS FLASH: A lying politician just won the 2012 Presidential Election. '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'QED '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'QED?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'arguement already proven ... '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'lets face it. No matter who we get, we are screwed for about 10 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a decade ? rose tint those glasses a lil more , mate india n china will drive this century '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'QED? (Quantom electodynamics?)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Quantum*'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'quod erat demonstrandum'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'this exists .... TIL'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'anyone who says they don't eat while driving is full of shit lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'if you don't have an ear piece/ Bluetooth then talking and driving is worse than txting it blinds one whole side and uses more motor function.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'and most people who have been texting for the last 10 years can do it without looking type type type look for typos '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zylias: 'there should be only public transport (except for emergency services & the remotes of the remote locations). would solve so many problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'oh man I totoally agree'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'but at this point big business controls human betterment'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zylias: 'i think you mean human worsement :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'I mean potential human betterment'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zylias nods.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'well that debate ended quick'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, how would we stop people walking? '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zylias: 'not really a debate if everyone else has the channel off, and all sides with it on agree :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'they can its not a necessity to use pub transport'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'but its mandated over personal vehicles'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zylias: 'sorry swalec i meant public transport and walking :D  and cycling in places with dedicated cycle lanes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'with every freedom man is granted he slowly destroys himself'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zylias: 'to me walking is a part of taking oublic transport, since the transport doesn't usually stop right outside the door of your house/apartement :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): It is time to vote again, Taokan reminds everyone.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So after the first two midnight polling places are in, Obama is ahead 28 votes to 14 votes to 1 vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yes, based on this turnout model we'll see a 75million to 25million turnout overall.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'don't forget the 2.5 million for gary johnson'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Oh yeah, him to. I think your sample size is a bit small, Leinei '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Romney on November winks suggestively.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'today is a great day for a phony rigged election'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I see stories rolling from both sides, its as usual - a lot of look'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'hehe didn't finisht htat'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'A lot of suspicious behavior.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So in how many hours will the first states start reporting their votes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'soon'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Just after 9pm eastern'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'first polls close in 15 mins'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '15 mins? Yay!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'NC polls close at 7, so shortly after that'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Virginia will report quickly'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'and they are important'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody cares about NC. It's so obviously Red.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ahhh, 7 in NC? didn't know that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'it went blue last time...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'if Obama takes Virginia its basicly over'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not this time, Tipro.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nate Silver gives Obama a 90.9% chance of winning. I'm feeling good today.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama has a 100% chance of furthering the police state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Romney could still win, but he would have to pull some magic shit to do it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Nate Silver predicted the last election down to almost the very correct percentile and predicted every single 2008 Senate race except ONE correctly).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Like his underwear.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with all of the noise coming from Democrats about riots, vote rigging and some of the dubious election behaviour they're pulling...they're worried'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, did you hear about that confirmed case of 2012 voter fraud of a woman trying to vote twice?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'we shall see pretty early'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't misunderstand, i think Obama will win, and I think that'll be terrible for USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mysteriously enough, she voted Republican.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'better than romney winning'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh good lord'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did the Black Panthers terrorize anyone in 2012 yet?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they've said they'll be back at the polls'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but if I remember correctly, they've enacted some laws that deal with having weapons at poll places'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i'm surprised those laws weren't already in place, but still'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is just too good to be true.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'depends on the polling place. as most of them are already buildings you cant carry guns'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no need for weapons, a mob is just as deadly just punching and kicking.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but apparently where they were, having those batons wasn't illegal, now it is'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're there, just not armed'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'mysteriously enough, they're democrats'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'True The Vote (what kind of name is that, anyway?!), a right-wing election monitoring group who runs around trying to disqualify votes it thinks are illegitimate have been banned from monitoring elections in Columbus Ohio because some of the names signed to support them are either false or forged.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '>.>'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but that's good, I was beginning to think the Dems were gonna tell them not to show because they didn't want a bunch of angry proud black men giving them bad publicity.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What would stop someone against The Vote from forging a name?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we should pit them against the U.N. monitoring groups that have been meeting with the democratic lobbying groups'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If Teabaggers can run rampant around the country chanting about how Obama's a secret Kenyan Muslim, the Black Panthers can stand outside polling places and... what, talk?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that'd be fun to watch'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't be silly, hans, the democrats are quite happy to have black people out intimidating the opposition'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Apparently you know nothing about Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not right, yuna, because the black panther party are essentially an FBI animal'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't disagree Yuna, it's just using one group of nuts to invalidate a whole group of people is silly'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Mr. Conspiracies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just ask Mr Larry Pinkney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of the founders of the group'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Tea Party isn't just a small group of nuts, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i'm not talking about the tea party'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Conspiracy? Read the "official" Benghazi story'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'interestingly enough, porn likes Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, then I have no issue here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Black Panthers, whatever they're doing, are a small group of old black people. In no way does this reflect on all Democrats, black people or old people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is this another matter of Yuna thinks everything he doesn't like is a conspiracy theory?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'regardless of who wins, I really hope we don't go into another recount situation'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the heck does their harassment even stem to? "Vote for Obama! Or the country will go down the drain!"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not going to be that close, Razkin.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'harassment is not correct'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, it's the new black panther party, which isn't the same as the black panthers'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, ok.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, who called for the stand-down at Benghazi?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'NBP is essentially the black version of the neo-nazis.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in fact, if I remember correctly, a lot of the old black panthers have denounced the new black panther party'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, New Hampshire has already reported its votes? Or at least some preliminary results?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't get an answer, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '65.1% O, 32.6% R.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The "official" story even outs Obama, even though I don't believe it was him'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Those would be exit polls'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DosseT, you don't even know who did.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'exit polls'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I have an idea, and I don't think it was Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your media-made story "official" story implicates Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'but historically they are decently accurate'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We know a general (I think) did. Not that Obama himself did.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't think Obama did either.  Why does the MSM implicate he did?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what's so wrong about not wanting to send good men to their deaths half-cocked? Wanting to figure out what's going on first?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So you either must concede the MSM is lying, or your boy called it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Wanting to figure out? They watched the whole episode on live feed'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Then he went to pay off the national debt at Vegas'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'MSM? Who, Fox News?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, DosseT, that livestream didn't go up until HOURS after the initial attack.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There were Delta Force and CIA assets sent there ordered to stand down'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't believe that story, but that's even what the official story says'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'That was a fallacy'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'BTW, the 65.1% / 32.6% number comes from a website that has listed ONLY New Hampshire's numbers. I think those are actual preliminary results, not exit polls.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'benghazi was Fast and Furious V2'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It appears this was a botched black-ops job, over which Obama's sending aid would have made the U.S. responsible'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'He was forced into a lose/lose situation'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, 28 / 14 insofar. Obama has 10% of the electoral votes he needs to win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Chose not to send aid to, and instead incur the wrath of the American people, who are less harmful than the rest of the world'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have any states actually formally declared?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'None.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't believe Obama is at fault, though he is forced into accepting fault'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because the first polls don't close 'til 4 minutes from now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'There actually WAS aid sent, just not up to the expectations (in amount or speed) that people wanted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Flach, there was a Delta Force team and CIA assets available'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what, DosseT. For the first time ever, I agree with you. Not with everything, but the general theory.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's probably not at fault in the way Nixon was at fault, but Obama is the President.  Almost nothing that happens in the Cabinet doesn't get thrown past him without him knowing about it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'He's at fault by proxy of being POTUS'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, he is guilty of breaching the consitution on multiple accounts, what does the life of one measely diplomat matter?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I think the goal of the operation was to kill the Ambassador'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'The supreme court certainly hasnt seen it that way thus far :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the supreme court are a failure then'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so, yeah, he may have had a rogue General settling a grudge or something, but he definitely was "logged in" with everything SecState and similarly-positioned minions were doing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the supreme court are a failure thencc'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Then call them a failure :P  But their word is law, in the most literal sense of that statement.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They represent us, so we are the law'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They are on my payroll'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, the houses can write laws. They can only interpret them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should fire them, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even separate from the Ambassador, they let all the classified papers in the building sit there unguarded for months.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tragedy aside, this may have been the event to set things into motion'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'And yeah, you're right, but they are the final word when it comes to that interpretation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i guess i'd best find a different english speaking, free country to live in, since USA won't be it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what country are you living in now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'This country certainly isnt perfect, but its a hell of a lot better than most alternatives that I could think of.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, joy. Oregon election worker Deanna Swenson has been fired and is under criminal investigation for election fraud.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK, Malkar'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'lawl I love these cliche talking points its like both sides are regurgitating facebbok reposts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'a nice.... way of putting it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'On ballots where boxes were left unchecked, she filled in a straight Republican ticket on all unchecked boxes. When caught, she tearfully claimed it had "only [been] the two". As if that made it any less stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yeah, moving here from the UK would be a waste of time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wanted Bachmann out of the Senate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There is no excuse for the Minnesotan people to give her yet another term in office. That woman is clinically insane.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'We need to put Bachmann, Palin, Paul, and Johnson in a cage together.  Last one standing is allowed to stay in the country.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I swear just a couple short years ago we were arguing about how election fraud not only wasn't happening but that when it did it basically wasn't enough to matter...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should marry her'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can froth into each others eyes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It wasn't enough to matter. But then the Republicans made a huge deal about it. And made their voter base think "Well, if the Democrats are doing it ,we should get in on the action as well!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'i would marry that one chic who came on TV and proudly proclaimed she was not a witch...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's quite funny how I've heard of basically zero cases of election fraud helping the Democrats this year while there have been several cases (caught) on the Republican side.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you only read liberal media'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You mean Christine O'Donnell, a.k.a. Palin 2.0.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there was the democratic senators son'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Even Fox News hasn't been able to dig up anything.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tintin peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'that's her name. *sniff*'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'There are other kinds of media? :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Care to provide a source?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'liberals only ever attack other liberals when they're liberals they hate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he was the one that was caught on camera, and was in charge of his fathers re-election campaign'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what did he do?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57539706/congressmans-son-resigns-after-voter-fraud-video/'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fucking idiotically long video. 27 minutes?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it was was representative, not senator, but still'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you call that election fraud?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you ADD or something?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, voter fraud has to happen quickly!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Election fraud is just white noise to cover up Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Is it any surprise there's fraud on both sides?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He didn't actually commit fraud. He advised someone. While that was a really bad thing to do, it wasn't actual fraud.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Benghazi is a cover-up not for Obama's administration, though they are scapegoated for it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh, that's ok then'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's fraud'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'conspiracy to fraud'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And it's still one case of ADVISING people on how to commit voter fraud vs. half a dozen confirmed cases of ACTUAL voter fraud.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, as long as he didnt' DO it, it's not fraud'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, it's still an offence'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Meanwhile, a Pennsylvania voting machine was taken out of commission, recalibrated and put back into service when it was caught surreptitiously changing a vote for Barack Obama to a vote for Romney. Hmmm...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't say it wasn't an offense.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't think trotting out the "It's Bush's fault!" line works anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's like saying if someone posted 2 ballots, if they get caught then they weren't guilty because the second ballot wasn't coutned'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But Tigernuts made it sound really bad.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As if he'd actually himself committed the fraud.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't even my link'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my point is that you've consistently had fraud on both sides of the isle, so while we can sit here and try and one up each other on cases of fraud, both sides have committed it,a nd there's bad people in both parties'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't claim it's consistently when it's been a pretty unheard of issue 'til this election cycle.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fraud is a staple of american elections'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we can try and argue that one side has done more this time, but over the last 10 years, we can find a lot of it on both sides'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Razkin, it's noise to keep us, the people, fighting ourselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I"m not fighting, I'm just frustrated that people will find something damning for one side, then turn a blind eye to what happens on 'their side''
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haven't seen any fraud for Gary Johnson yet...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're not fighting because you see it what for what is - most people are fighting, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said it didn't happen on both sides. I said it's happening a lot on the Republican side this year because of the rhetoric the Republican party used.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Kansas is pretty proud that they managed to influence a Missouri state election to benefit them.  Granted, it was like 6 score and 5 years ago or so...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Gary Johnson is a nutcase though, even fraud couldnt help his chances'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They made it sound like it was rampant within the Democratic ranks, which makes their voterbase feel like they should get in on it as well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better governor than Romney ever was'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just don't buy that, I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think that's what happens'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I could be wrong on that'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'I have no clue about how he was as a governor, so you might be right on that one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Green Party almost always puts up clinically insane people for election.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sometimes, they're even felons.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he didn't write a letter to his half brother saying "If you lose the election, riot until they're forced to give you a cabinet position"'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, it's OK to run for POTUS even when your felonous record prevents you from actually voting.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'just an fyi...johnson is NOT green party'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait... apparently he isn't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So who IS the Green Party's Crazy of the Year?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have no idea, though I do know Roseanne Barr is running'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'her name is JIll...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jill Reid'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Al Gore is busy, I hear, so must be someone else'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Al Gore is busy making 100s of millions of dollars out of his fake global warming scam'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he doens't give a shit about politics anymore'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Surely it's a 100% real scam..'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'is he still doing that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's got all these juicy corporate welfare handouts from Obama to totally sponge off of'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'the royalities from his books dont hurt either'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and other similarly delusional countries abroad)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'You know somebody's lost when he goes from racism to "global warming is fake" in five minutes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of his wealth is from green investment'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i haven't seen any racism'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Most racists don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts doesn't have the balls to come out and say it openly, but he's also fond of implying Obama's a secret Muslim.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'I suppose the communist part is not secret?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only thing i believe it's you're a not-so-secret idiot'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'And if he was muslim, who cares.  He's still a human being.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I believe he openly accuses Obama of being a Communist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because Obama -is- a communist'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'See.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'is he a human being??!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Closer to socialist than communist'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'loosest possible sense of the word, malkar'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Aha, and I, having weighed in for less than 30 seconds in text form, am so clearly an idiot.  Do all Republican voters have this level of logical analysis?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who on earth are you talking to Cosmo?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If Obama's a Communist, then Sweden, in Tigernuts' eyes, is Soviet Russia.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Not that there's much point, but you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because, seriously, Obama's right-wing by Swedish standards.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wasn't referring to you, Cosmo, so you're exhonerated'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he was tlaking to yuna, it must be that Democratic Chip on the Shoulder!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Razkin.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'see how that works'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'huh... a victim of crossed posts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sweden is a scandinavian bankwater and not terribly relevent'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, cosmo'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: '-backwater-*relevant'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, us and our horrible Socialized healthcare and free education (at all levels, except, obviously, at private schools).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Universal healthcare?  You bastards!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is that relevent to the accusation of being a constitution-destroyer, a warmonger, a centralist control freak and a nannyist police state provider?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We even have pesky little things called "Roofs". No matter how much healthcare you need, you never have to pay for than the maximum per year.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(As long as it's not elective surgery, obviously)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than Sweden -also- being nanny-state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you accuse Obama of those things or Sweden?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, most against socialism are against socialism in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not that it can't work in countries as Sweden'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's because the model cannot be sustained in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'A nanny state is a place which imposes unnecessary onerous rules restricting its citizens.  It's not universal healthcare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts is against high taxes on alcohol to drive up the price of alcohol so people will drink less.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm against high taxes period'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mysteriously enough, instances of drunk driving, drunk rage, drunk anything and drunks in general are extremely low in Sweden. But we can't have that if it requires a nanny state!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Cosmo, universal healthcare in the U.S. is tantamount to a nanny state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Have fun not having paved roads, universal healthcare, free firefighters, free schooling at any level then, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Too many freeloaders'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I bet location has more to do with that, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sweden also has an extremely low population density'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's why it works in places like Sweden'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Location?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Population density has absolutely no influence on alcoholism, AFAIK.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'A nanny state is something completely different, it's not related to healthcare (unless the government, say, bans alcohol).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm talking about instances of drunk anything per capita, obviously.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it does have to do with the IMPACT of alcoholism...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'It's important to get the words right because the phrase "nanny state" is so emotionally charged.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Cosmo, the U.S. supports non-taxpayers'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But I made absolutely no mention of the impact of alcoholism. Just the prevalence of it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, you did'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'drunk driving, drunk rage, etc are impacts, they are not alcoholism'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I also said "drunks in general".'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the average alcohol user causes $1k of additional costs to society, how much should he pay in extra taxes on the alcohol consumed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and you're measuring that...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sweden has some of the lowest number of drunks, smokers and drug users in the EU if not the world.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yep.  Colder areas tend to have safer drivers due to all the ice and snow.  I know Sweden is more capable of dealing with such, but I really doubt their drivers think their handling is so awesome that they'll drive dangerously.  Part of that is the realization that drunk-driving is driving dangerously.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA adults consume less alcohol per capital than Swedes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Per capital?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I actually know of more drunk swedes than I do drunk Merkins...and I've never even been there ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'that is probably because Swedish people don't have to tolerate the kind of crap we do in the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'capita'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have nothing to add to this conversation except to say that I don't drink! yay'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I don't drink alcohol....'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Alcohol consumption her capita, yes. But the average is 10 litres per person per year.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That doesn't change the fact that Sweden has very low numbers of alcoholics.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only mormons don't drink alcohol...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And Muslims...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Well, they're not supposed to)¨'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and me'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best you find the number of deaths per capita for chronic alcohol related conditions'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise you're guilty of bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'The news sites are confusing me.  Can you guys have a fully blue Senate and House but have a red President?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well hans, most drivers who drive under the influence do NOT recognize it as driving dangerously..."I'm fine!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'yes cosmo'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes cosmo'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would there even be national tables of that, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you can also have blue states with red governor's and vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'That's so weird...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, actually you can have a blue/red-dominated senate/house...you'd never see a FULLY one'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are national tables of everything else...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so yes, we've had plenty of cases where there's a dem prez and rep congress and vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just for posterity's sake, I consume alcohol at a rate of approximately a few mililitres every 2-3 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should drink more'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'drink red wine'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's mostly in the form of fruity drinks with little alcohol. And I go several years between them because I don't much of a pressing need to injest them. But if someone buys me a drink, I'll take it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I've tried alcohol, but I've never inhaled it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'I have'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'if the republican'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'oops'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In my entire lifetime, I've tried beer (less than 1/4th of a can in total), 1 mouthful of Koskenkorva (my throat burned for days afterwards), 1 rum and coke, 1 rum-based drink called 21 (local specialty) and 1 strawberry something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have to admit, I'm with you on that one Yuna, for instance, I had a glass of wine at a wedding I just stood in'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aaaaaand that's it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so I guess I can't claim that I don't drink at all  :('
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I ahve never in my life paid for alcohol, not even once.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'i can drink all of that in a week'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'For casual drinking, just do red wine for pairing and scotch neat'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The 3 drinks I've had were bought for me by a classmate a graduation party, a friend when we celebrated a job well done and shared with a friend at a party.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For obvious reasons, I've never been drunk. Not even tipsy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I hear estos get deported if their BAC ever falls below the national limit'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I drink like a fish, never once got drunk though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think I tried wine once. Like, just a sip. Wine tastes like rotten grapes to me. And it's basically what they are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I used to do that in college'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'try a wine tasting class'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you sample different grapes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'has anyone heard how polling is going in Sandy affected areas, not the break down, but if it's running smoothly, etc?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for any given drink, there's a range of quality.  Wine has a ridiculously wide range.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It costs money. And I feel no need to pay money for things I will most probably not enjoy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'you can taste whether a wine was aged in oak or stainless steel'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I heard some of the PA touchscreens ran out of paper.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet you are happy to force the rest of us to pay for stuff we won't enjoy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'did that affect anything?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Healthcare, schooling, firefighting, roads, etc. are necessities for society to function.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'oak aged wine is much better'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wine tasting classes are not.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paying other people to sit on welfare and have sex isn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that shouldn't affect anything, the paper is just for audit/journaling, not for actual counting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'wait.. I can get paid to have sex?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well then, Tigernuts, campaign to have the system changed because in Sweden, you can barely survive if you're on welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, in the Uk you get paid to have kids!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I hate my old high school advisor right now'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you get paid for havING kids, not to HAVE them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh, sad'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I was going to go out and start working!!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'giggity'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't have had kids without having them'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'with wines, you can get stuff that tastes exactly like rubbing alcohol smells as well as ambrosial treats that are as flavorful as koolaid (ie, fruity, minty, etc without the alcohol taste).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, if you're so set against universal healthcare, again, are you against state funded roads, firefighters and education?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, there's the maternity leave before you have them, etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not against any of those things'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then why so set against universal healthcare?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not against universal healthcare'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'very true. wine tasting is a subtle art'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet I've seen you complain about Obamacare... a LOT.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then i'll wearily point out that Obamacare is not universal healthcare, it's mandatory health INSURANCE'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the FUCK is socialized healthcare if not mandatory health insurance?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, that's literally just how much quality variation there is in wines.  One sip could turn you into a wine snob who craves cheese, or could turn you off of wine entirely.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialized healthcare is paid for by the tax system'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obamacare is not'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, Obama TRIED to institute universal healthcare. The Republicans wouldn't allow it so he had to water down Obamacare. It's better than the status quo before obamacare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's his hard luck'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of fucking course it is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'It's basically the same thing.  The only difference is the Republicans blocked true socialized healthcare, on the grounds that it didn't benefit CORPORATE interests.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not basically the same thing...obamacare won't provide healthcare for me'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'dry red is the way to go'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all Obamacare does is ramp up the cost of health insurance and totally fuck up people who work but can't afford health insurance'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'for taste and for health'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'aged in french oak, i take white or red'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I found reds to be the most terrible.  I drank one, couldn't even taste the grapes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'depends what you like'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'cab sauv with red meat'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or a sweeter merlot'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'i also like reislings, for some odd reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can have the UK healthcare system if you like, but it'll cost you because it's about to collapse under a mountain of debt'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if you have anything not immediately life threatening wrong with you, don't expect to be treated, because you won't be'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wish I could remember what it was, but I went to a restaurant called The Macaroni Grill that had just opened in STL and on a whim decided to go with the recommended wine for whatever I had ordered.  It tasted so good (some sort of fruit flavor), I swear it didn't have any alcohol in it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and of course, because of the system there isn't a decent private healthcare system available at an affordable price as a result)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'The UK NHS is basically fantastic, but poorly funded.  If it was as well funded as Sweden's (where people vote more to the left), it could be the best in the world.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'there are many wines like that out there. a lot.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'funding is less than half the problem with it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'organisation and coverage are the the major problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'is it too soon for election results? stuck at work w/o television'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We don't "vote more to the left" in Sweden. Because besides the right-wing, nationalistic, racist, basically neo-nazi Swedish Democrats, EVERY SINGLE PARTY in parliament is left-wing by international standards.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And we love it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, the globalists are winning, Endtime'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Mac Grill is a chain'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They prolly have a set wine list'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'they always do :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Poor organization in the NHS is generally due to lack of funds, and managers having to prioritize things they'd rather not.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'they probably buy the wine in bulk and get it cheaper.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poor organisation in the NHS is not due to lack of funds'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's due to bad management and oversite'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'endtime, we should get a few results soon, but 1.5 hours before we start getting real results.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oversight'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paying $5bn for a $400m hospital for example'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'thanks malkar, will check back on supper break'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Which hospital was that, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was thinking specifically of the Norwich University Hospital, but applies to pretty much any of them that were built under the PFI scheme'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'PFI is pretty poorly regarded in general.  It doesn't reflect on the fundamental NHS so much as on the idiocy of the government in charge.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, PFI was hugely expanded under the last socialist government as a way of spending shittons of money without having to account for it on the budget sheets'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a result, we have numerous NHS trusts on the verge of bankruptcy'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Socialist?  Are you referring to Labour, who are centre-right?  Or the Tories, who are right-right but still to the left of Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hahaha, lol. A Swedish newspaper's online edition had a "Guess which Presidential candidate 14 celebrities are voting for". I got 14 out of 14 right.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Neither?  It's nearly a century since we had another party in charge...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wrong neither. the comparison is irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'aw dammit, I missed most of the all-day election day debate channel marathon!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'it went as could be expected'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I can sum it up for you.  "Breaking news!  Obama's winning............................................................until all the Republicans get off work."'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'still a few hours to to before the victory celebrations/predictions of doom.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but yes, it looks like Obama's tactic of importing supporters from Mexico and Cuba is working!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, I'd like to point out, not for the first time, that a party that thinks govt is bad generally runs govt badly.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i got a postal ballot today, no idea what it's for'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'whether we should riot should our side not win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of which, it's entirely too late now if you haven't already gotten your anti-riot supplies stashed.  Just in case something happens to me, I just want ya'll to know that I'll miss all this chatting.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, police commissioner. boring'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt there'll be any now :-('
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good thing I'm less than a day from the canadian border!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'polls closing in 10 seconds'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'polls already closed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sad, my clock is off'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the first result is Ohio with Obama polling 112% of the vote!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just heard a Fox News update.  Romney's currently at 19 to 3'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'second is Florida where Obama polled 102% of the vote and Romney 17,154%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's still a lose for the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, dosset, never a truer word spoken'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't care about who's in office; I want to know what we're doing in Libya'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how was turnout for you guys when you voted?  I heard on the order of 70% average here in MO.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Which will get buried regardless'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when I went, though, there were no lines.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they turned the lobby of my apartment building into a polling station...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you go vote during Ricki Lake or whatever the modern equivalent is?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it was pretty well set up, but from photos of other locations, I have to say that the US does need election monitors. Good ones.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it could probably use ditching electoral colleges'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well yes, but first things first'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Yeah, electoral colleges are the least democratic thing out of your whole election process.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I got off work at 2pm, went and did a half-hour's running around, and got up to the booth at 3pm.  Walked out after 15 minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I mean, places where you can stand behind and observe other people voting? Polling in restaurants where the workers have a clear view of the screens?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Curiously, members of the EC aren't even obligated to vote for whom they said they would.  100% of the electorate could go red, and the EC could vote 100% blue.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'voting for retention of all those judges is totally pointless, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: '56 minutes until polls close here and I just got another recorded political call.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'second thing to improve it would be to ditch those bloody voting machines'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'election security in some places are in third world condition...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Virginia's polls have closed. Agents are go!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and there's that video of a machine changing a vote for obama to romney...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gentlemen! start your vote-rigging software now!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'our curtains overlapped plenty, from inside I couldn't see outside my closet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there've been dozens of videos like that each way, SOnshi, it's actually down to badly calibrated touch screens'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's ridiculous how they just "recalibrated" it and then put it back into service.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The EC is the failsafe in case the people actually band together to put a competent person in POTUS'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'I love how electronic voting recounts work "It's 10426".  "Check again!"  "Yeah, still says 10426 on the screen."'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, the ones I've seen in philly have curtains. Many photos show places with no curtains in other states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should do it the old fashioned way with a cross on a piece of paper'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'What's wrong with that Yuna?  That's what I did with my smartphone.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'paper ballots are more expensive, but it's also harder to rig, if you have the right systems...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'dangling chads notwithstanding?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'shouldn't even need to go out to vote.  Just do it from your mobile device or computer.  Hell, could even do it on Big Gulp cups like 7-Eleven is doing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'I'd vote for dangling chavs'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dangling from a noose?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you mean chads?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are problems, yes... but rigging on paper ballots only works on small margins before it gets too blatant'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hans, I used chads, cosmo was joking'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chavs are victims too, you know'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'yeah, I deliberately misread'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'I'm very funny man'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be a hard life, getting up at 10, having to drink beer for breakfast, watch some sky tv and play playstation 3, then have to get takeaway for dinner because you're too fat to cook'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'funny how it's okay to spend all that money on campaigning, but at the same time it's all right to compromise election security just to save a little bit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now you get a peek behind the curtain'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hey, I get up at 12-3, and I don't drink beer!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Somebody here in the UK has been campaigning for all election campaign funds to be funded by the government, to prevent overspending and stop corporate interests taking over.  I think every country would benefit from doing that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't do that, Dosset, they're naked'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'only single malt whisky?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Cosmo, you know who "the government funding" is, right'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'latest poll is Obama 55% Romney 45% (after 4%)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how would decide who gets funded,  Cosmo?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'No, I don't, because we can't find out unless the funders volunteer the information.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home they tend to restrict campaigning to more opt-in rather than opt-out things'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The government ostensibly has no money; it's taxpayer money, i.e. you'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So you pay for someone to get into office and kickback his special interests'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'nice'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'There are a few ways Tigernuts, it's a tricky issue but has a few solutions proposed.  All of them are better than the current status quo.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'saves on costs and irritation. But would probably violate the american sense of free speech'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i'm off to bed because some of us actually slave for a pittance, i mean, work for a living'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Right now, Dosset, we all pay the price by being ruled by people who are controlled by outside interests we don't understand.  I'd rather pay a few pounds instead.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'although they still drive around and yell out their messages, I think...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe tv ads are banned or something, I don't remember seeing any back home.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'NC and Ohio polls closed. Too close to call. VA Romney projected winner'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Hmm, everyone thought NC was going comfortably to Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'look at who donated to the romney campaign compared to obama in 2008.. lock it up, romney won'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I believe Obama had more individual donors'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama has  tiny lead (1.1%) over Romney in Florida with 1% of the vote counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Romney had a way larger outside advertising buget'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'm just talking about look at the guys who pulls the strings not the amount'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Romney projected to take WVa, count is now 23 to 3.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'i.e. advertising money spent by people outside his campaign'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'm not talking amount either'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, 24 to 3'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'yeah Romney had way more money when looking at independent groups'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'West Virginia isn't a swing state, is it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So there was never much doubt there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, it wasn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Virginia's going to Romney with 2% of the votes counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZUhjiu2atPo/TxWE2L_hTnI/AAAAAAAAALA/1KNUIIEUNVU/s1600/candidate+contributions.jpg'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'who's calling virgina?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'pretty much sums it all up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I haven't seen anyone call it yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think it will go to romney, but it's pretty close there'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'no one clal WV? I haven't either'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dem banks'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heh, gotta love "breaking news": a virginia precint with a population of about 1,700 has reported!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'WV is called to go to Romney, as heard from Fox News.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'how many electoral votes is that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Actually, with 6 Virginia precincts reporting, Romney leads Obama 57.2% to 41.5%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'SC for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'isn't it expected that most rural areas report earlier than urban ones, and that rural ones are more likely to go Romney?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '24 to 3.  So far, Obama's only won VT.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there's some large democratic precincts in VA, so I'd be surprised if they called it yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'it's still so early'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You might be on to something, Razkin.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i influenced a tie'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'they were calling NC for Mccain last year, and they were wrong'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'since the big cities were the late-reporting ones'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'last election, I mean, of course'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Virginia precints who've gone red:  Lee COunty, Augusta County, Hanover County, Chesterfield County and Roanoke County. Sound very rural to me.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The lone precinct Obama's won was Pittsylvania County, an obviously urban area (and he won it by 70.4% to 28.7%)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No wait, I misread. He won Danville county. Pittsylvania hasn't reported in yet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'va reminds me of my state, most of it's red, but the few counties that go blue are so huge that they completely flip the race here'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Nods, that's how NC is'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Everyone think we'll have a winner by tonight, or will it drag into tomorrow?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Two big population centers'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like that all over the country. More states are red, but the bigger states generally go blue.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Rest is red'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I'm in ILlinois, so once the chicago land precincts start submitting, the state goes distinctly blue'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, a vast majority of the population lives there, so I guess I can't really complain'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, Romney's officially won Kentucky. 8 electoral votes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's officially won Vermont with 3 electoral votes. Though the site I'm reading doesn't actually tell us the vote breakdown in Vermont for some reason.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Possibly, they're just foregone conclusions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Hah, gotta love it.  Obama has 74% of the vote in SC so far...and they're calling for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'looking at cnn projections... indiana flips to romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama has 85.9% of SC votes with 1% reporting according to my info. Maybe my map is lagging slightly, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'there must be more than that reporting from early voting Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whoa, my map just updated. 12 Electoral votes (henceforth known as EV) to Obama, 24 to ROmney.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, my map just officially called SC for Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm watching the rcp website, but I've fox and nbc in the background, just to see what they're saying'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And West Virginia for Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obama given a checkmark in SC? wtf'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And Indiania.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'there's no way Obama won SC'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sc called for romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Strange... the overall map gives O the checkmark, but clicking on SC gives a popup that calls it for Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'no, Romney has been, Twyst.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A glitch, I guess.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nbc is calling sc'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Obama officially way ahead, but they're still calling it for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'to romney, that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and now so is fox and rcp'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'rcp?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'real clear politics'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'realclearpolitics'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Kentucky's solid red, right? Being called for Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sanders (D) called to retain his seat in Vermont.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'These guys on CNN have way too much energy for it being this early in the process'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Sanders is an independent (and true, proud socialist)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess he's one of the two Independents who caucuses with the Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'he might, yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'RCP counts him as D.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why does Alaskan polls close at 1:99 AM ET? It's not that far to the west that it should close its poll 2 hours after all other polls have closed, shuld it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '1:99?  That's a new time to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '1:00'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'Every time is new, that's like time's defining feature.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anyway, Shumlin (D) also projected to retain governor seat. Yay.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't really matter, election is decided by then anyways'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'it's an hour behind the west coast'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney projected to win Kentucky, Indiania, South Carolina and West Virginia (33), Obama Vermont (3).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I'm showing Alaska closing at midnight ET'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are there any states where electoral college votes are based on percentages instead of "Winner takes it all"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'RCP claims they close at 1:00 AM ET'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes, but I forget all of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'for instance, I think nebraska is one of them, but I'd have to double check'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '2 states do'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'don't know which ones'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'nebraska and maine'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'maybe maine or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maine, also a weirdo.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I just remember that Obama carried 1 of the votes from Nebraska last time'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Maine gives 2 votes to the overall state winner, and 1 to each district'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(which has always been the same)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: '14% in of NC has Obama up by 50k votes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, in practice, they're winner-take-all'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(2 districts)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Most of those are from Charlotte, though, Tipro.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Which is probably the bluest part of the state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah I know. I did some election monitoring today for a non-partisan group here in Charlotte. Was quite interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Wake and Watagua counties are also extremely blue.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and populous'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Nods, wake+orange+durham'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Where is Watugua, though?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Boone/blowing rock'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'ah'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'App state students (left) balance out the natives (red)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney called to win Georgia as well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I was almost a Mountaineer'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think I spent a night there for picking flowers or something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'McCrory is up in the NC governors race as well. He's expected to win by a fair margin'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I went to app state, but wasn't as liberal as most there'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama gaining on Romney the more votes are counted in Florida. So no 2000 bullshit from Florida.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oh wait, I'm thinking UNC-A'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'oh that's a nice place too. Ashville's great'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Nods, honeymooned there'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama's up 78 to 71'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'every news outlet is going to have a different number :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'CNN has 64-40'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Romney now ahead in NC w/ 25% in'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Fox just revised the EC numbers down.  They're going through Obama's states now, with a total of 72.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'more breaking news: romney is winning the vote in Ohio among people that call themselves conservatives.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think I might as well just take a nap and turn this back on in a couple of hours.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama 72, Romney 71'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Trollolololol. A bajillion states were just called for Obama. 78 (D) / 71 (R) now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if obama wins, I want my free phone'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'VA might be getting extended poll times because the lines were so long (both sides asked for this).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'is the free phone an iPhone?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and actually, I haven't seen one battleground state called yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Connecticut is HILARIOUS. With less than 0% of the votes counted, Obama leads Romney 91.6% to 8.1%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's a lot of votes, considering that we get all our random numbers between 0 and 1.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, in other words, there's 37 votes that have been counted, and Romney has 3'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you talking about CN? 1300+ votes counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Also..."less than 0%"? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I mean t less than 1%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, is it possible for a poll to close when there are still voters in line to vote?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think they 'close the doors' at that time'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Think they usually stop people from getting in line at a certain point'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And then let everyone in line finish'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'at least, from my experience'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, that's how it happens here, but I'm not going to say that that's the way it happens everywhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But if you get there 5 minutes before closing, and there'a 100 people in line, they might turn you away'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(I think)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not very nice...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Been a while since I haven't early voted'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'each state has it's own rules'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei nods.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama leading in Ohio with 1% of the vote counted. Double digits!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and like what's going on in VA right now, both candidates asked for extended time because of the long lines, so it was granted'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which I think is the right thing to do'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they stop the line at the original closing time.  You might not get to vote, so if the numbers seem to indicate you're valuable they'll ask for more time.  You're not really allowed to vote until they say yes, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my map shows 19% counted for ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What map are you looking at, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, rcp only has 1%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm looking at HuffPo and RCP. Both say 1%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cnn'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think CNN is based on exit polling.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'romney went up to 82 now, according to rcp'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'est 19% in, 660980-451601 is what I see'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, they're way different then the other sites'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'although oddly, the percentage in has sometimes decrease for some states. Errors?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I dont' know if that's because of the estimated part, or not'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(decreased)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they might be using exit polls somehow'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's weird... HuffPo's map shows the same number votes counted as CNN, but HuffPo has the number at 1% while CNN has it at 20%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'with 3 precincts in in MO's senate race, Todd Akin's winning.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If Missouri votes for Tod Akin, then they deserve him. What a bunch of fucktards.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, something wonky is going on there, I'd go with the other sites for now'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That said, those 3 precincts pretty much voted straight Republican. Let's hope there are less crazy districts in that state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Missouri will probably go strongly republican, at least that's the general consensus'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, but Tod Akin's nuts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's Michelle Bachmann levels of nuts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, even though I'm conservative, she drove me up the wall'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unsurprisingly, Bachmann and Akin are both running in Missouri'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like, have you ever felt embarassment for someone?  That's how I'd get when I'd watch her talk'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, wait, Bachmann isn't from Missuouri?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah, Minnesota.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obamacare's poison here.  His rape comments notwithstanding, McCaskill really never had a chance, having basically gone headon against the voting public.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Missouri women are insane, then.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some of the est x% in numbers are clearly screwed up... over 400k votes in for miami-dade and it shows 0% in'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why is it taking so long to count Ohio votes? It's been at 1% forever.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they even tried a state-level version of Obamacare that the public voted against, too, so Lt Gov or one of the other executive races is flipping also.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I forget who I was listening to, but I know Ohio typically takes awhile to tally'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '88 for Rom now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd imagine it's because it's a perinnial swing state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'over/under on how many times Gary Johnson's name gets mentioned on CNN tonight: 2'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Who the heck decided to name all the counties in Florida the same as counties in NC?  I keep thinking they're talking about my state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'way back when they first mapped out the states, one of the highly-underpaid and highly-overworked aides decided to take a shortcut.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Or there were just only a dozen famous englishman back then'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'to name counties after'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, FL became a state about 2 months after NC. It's likely that the same people were working on statehood :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that's wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '10years not 2 month  (thank google for that answer)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder what percentage of the mud has the debate channel turned off :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'most people have it turned off :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh snap!  The WWE Universe put the Smackdown on Linda McMahon's senate bid!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think Wolf Blitzer just said Oromney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they called my state the second polls closed :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Razkin: gamestat 12'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '48 out of 395 people have it on'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's a neat command'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and that's more people than I thought would have it on :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'this channel can get quite energetic sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: '150 people have gossip on, is what i find amain'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'amazing*'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it shot up by about 40 because it's election night'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I believe that'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'what amazes me is that 73 out of the 272 tiers somehow got annoyed enough by tiertalk to turn it off'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can you tell?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'gamestat 12'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'that channel is rarely used'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And it's not like anyone actually ever uses tiertalk, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Why would all those people even bother to turn it off? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe someone trolled that channel a while back.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Well, that's why I have spouse off'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'o.O'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my wife has spouse channel off irl'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'cause I troll that channel'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'looks like the Republicans are going to have homefield advantage in the Goobernational All-Star game.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oh, I just realized Hanslanda was serious.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 're: linda mcmahon'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'didn't she lose?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's what I said, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh, I must have misunderstood'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Nods, but I figured he was just talking about some publicity stunt.  Like when they "sold" the WWE to donald trump'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Or that they just happened to share the same name'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't think they've called one swing state yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Really?  Now CNN analysts are basing their predictions based on what's happening on Twitter'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I figured they'd at least call New Hampshire by now, even though I've never understood why it was a swing state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '62% O 36.8% R in NH with 7% of the votes counted. I say Obama's got it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's still up by double digits in Ohio as well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I spent a bunch of time building my own map on rcp, and I never once gave NH to Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think I need to get out more :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can't say much with 7%... unless there's strong polling beforehand.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'same with Wisconsin, everyone says it's in play, I just can't see how, regarless of recalls, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heh.  In NC, Obama has gotten 99% of the vote from black women, according to exit polls.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'exit polls are kind of unreliable'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm surprised that number isn't 100%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they're interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... I wonder if those red coastal states realise what they'd get with a gop fema...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, Uncle Tom was expected to get married, too.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'GOP Fema? Romney wanted to dismantle FEMA.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'After Sandy, he refuses to answer questions about FEMA:'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whoa. North Carolina is basically a dead head.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it's really close'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he wouldn't dismantle FEMA. It's the government's means of population control.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but it is a swing state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'o.O'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'McCrory giing victory speech for NC governors race'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They were giving NC fairly comfortably to Romney in the last few weeks'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, and he needs it if he wants to win'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They didn't even consider NC a swing state last election, when it went blue for the first time in 40 years :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'last I look, the mittens was white :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, he needs other things, but all of the winning scenarios I've seen have automatically given him VA and NC'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Was the closet state last year, in terms of total vote difference'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'last election*...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it'll come down to ohio, since I don't think PA is in play, but ohio won't matter if he doesn't win nc and va'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ohio looks like a win to Obama. Obama still leads double digits with 7% of the vote counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, but only 7% counted'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just depends on what 7%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'With 44% of the vote counted, Romney's taking Virginia almost double digits.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods at Leinei.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, even though I'm not a fan of Obama, I doubt that romney will win'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'He was ahead by 40 percentage points in SC for a while, and isn't expected to win it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I haven't seen anything that has put romney strongly ahead in the key states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'CNN projecting that republicans will keep control of the house'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'ahead by 40%? typo?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Nah, just the votes that were in were in the blue part of the state.  Based the projection on exit polls, though, I would imagine.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'wow, Florida is really close too, closer than I thought it'd be at this point'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if Florida keeps on at this rate, they might be in a recount situation'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'aren't they one of the states that automatically recount if it's 1% different or less?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Florida alone out of the tossup states would put Obama at 270, according to the NY Times, if all the "narrowly expected to win" states go as predicted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'unless I added wrong'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Florida won't matter if Obama wins Ohio.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'when I was doing the maps, florida was one of those states that Romney needed '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, what Yuna said'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'He'd still need 11 more out of the tossup states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(defined by NY times)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if he loses FL, VA, NC any one of those will put him out of the race, most likely'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unless things went so perfectly for him, but that probably won't happen'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney's currently winning Virginia double digits.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Florida's a toss up and Obama's currently leading NC.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but they're held up because of Fairfax, which apparently is a very democratic precinct'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I only know that because I just saw it on t.v. :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is Fairfax also very alrge?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'My ticker shows romney up by less than 200 votes in NC with 78% of the vote counted'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure if it's large enough to swing the vote there, but it's a pretty large precinct'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lol, MO looks to be sending one dem and one repub to the senate'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'nope that was FL. sorry'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where the fuck is Fairfax county?! Can't find a proper map of it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'let me go look again'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yah. Obama's winning double digits in NC atm.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'maybe it was nc that I was looking at and got confused'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'How the heck does NC have that many voters?  Total population is less than 10 million...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to HP, Fairfax county has, like, 300,000 votes or some shit o_O.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no , it looks like it's in va'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'I hope Orrin Hatch goes down in Utah. Heard him speak here recently. Crazy old man'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'double digits, Yuna?  Maybe in total votes, not percentage'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh wait, I misread. Not NC. Ohio.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they just called PA for Obama, which I figured would happen'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'ah, nods'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but it's the first swing state I've seen called'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'PA's too early imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '68% O with 11% accounted for.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't think PA was ever a real swing state, but I'm not a political analyst'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hanslanda tries to ask with a straight face how well Gary Johnson's doing, but just can't pull it off.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and yeah, Florida is one of the automatic recount states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and according to RCP, Florida is literally tied at the moment'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '... im from FL'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, you're tied at the moment :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'apparently 49.6 even, though I'm not sure how the math on that works out....'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'sounds perfect :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'out come i was going for '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, if this election takes the next week to call, I'm coming down there!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there should be a aard gathering in fl'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to RCP, McCaskill is leading Akin, but only 2% of the votes have been counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'fox is saying that the republican's will maintain control of the house'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lots of networks are projecting gop control of house'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'somebody's gotta vote for Gary Johnson, Razkin :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'gary johnson is a libertarian, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'probably'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they called Wisconsin for Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '538 seems to have been wrong on Virginia, but there's still a chance for Obama to win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I hate to be cliche, but I still think it's coming down to Ohio, and everything i've read give Obama a very slight edge in Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not enough of an edge that I'd bet on it, but enough that'd I'd weight it in his favor'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's up by 7% in Ohio with 22% of the vote accounted for.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no tears, please :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Florida's still a fucking dead heat at 77%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'bummer'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'they said people are still in line. 2 hours after the polls closed'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney's leading in NC with 2.6% with 56% of the vote accounted for.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lol, they're already freaking out that FL's gonna steal the race.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just have a bad feeling that Florida is going to a recount'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's a tradition :>'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a bad tradition'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama up by 0.4% in Florida with 84% of the vote counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the mittens is sure to call for a recount if he loses by that much :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I saw a news blurb today where the speaker pointed out that the elections result in 2000 where held for 36 days (gasp!). The idiot didn't know that it took 6 months to declare Lincoln president.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'Lincoln did a good job at debating Douglas'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, but the point is that there is nothing in the constitution that requires an instantaneous vote count.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, I just heard that it's .5% that triggers the recount in Florida, so I'm not sure which is correct'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'Fl is most likely to be contested, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but since at this point it's .4% difference...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It might not matter Ohm'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'repubs have lost WI and NH, making it kinda tough for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'oh so if he were to take FL, it might not matter'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, although, again, I can't understand why people ever thought either of those was a contested state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romney has to win VA, NC, and FL , or Ohio doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he's probably going to take VA and NC, but FL is so close that it might knock Romney out'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but if Romney wins Ohio, and just barely loses FL, I agree, there will be a lot of lawyering going on'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romney is still almost 1million up in the popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'won't it be ironic if we get a repeat of 2000 but reversed by party'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'how much did Gore win the vote by?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who cares? Not all votes have been counted, especially not those from the blue states.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'was it that much?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'half a million'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not saying it'll happen, Yuna  But if the trend continues'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '15K votes separation in FL with 85%'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and even though there's some big blue states coming up, you also have a couple of large red states that can match them'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oh that's nice...Iowa ran out of ballots.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What "trend"? Absolutely nothing of what's happened insofar has been unexpected.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the trend of the popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree, as far as electoral votes go, nothing has surprised me yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, that's because of the states whose votes have been counted insofar are red states.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, but you have new york and pa that are big blue states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and california coming up, but so is texas'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'texas could keep romney in the lead for the popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in a way, I hope it does happen, as strange as that sounds'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'since Gore lost, the Democrats have hated the electoral college, and the Republicans have supported it, if it's reveresed, maybe they'll change the way votes are counted, but it's probably more fantasy than reality on my part'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the states would not support the amendment because they would lose control of the presidency.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I dont' forsee it ever going to a popular vote, but I'd be happy even if they'd split the electoral votes within the states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've never liked the all or nothing model'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'same rejection, same reason.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like I said, it's probably just fantasy on my part, but I'm still allowed to dream'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so quit crushing my dreams >:('
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'for those of you that hate Todd Akin, McCaskill just got the call'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'On the flip side, the Democrats have wrested 2 Senate seats from Republicans insofar.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I'm not sure if the Senate will change much, but I'll be honest, I haven't followed the senate races that closely'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ohio's getting closer and closer the more votes are counted, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, like I said earlier, I think Obama will just squeek by in Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but even if he loses it, he's still in a better position than Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romney would still need to take Florida and some other state, like Colorado or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'don't urban counties generally report later?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which I don't see happening'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, don't urban counties generally trend democrat?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'as a rule of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All Obama needs is 122 electoral votes. Because California is his already.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So I don't care if the California polls haven't closed yet. That's 55 electoral votes Obama can't possibly lose.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, Romney needed to win the south swing states, Ohio, and one other'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'doable, but still a big stretch'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What Southern Swing States?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'BTW, I meant 222.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'florida's the only southern swing state isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'VA, NC, and FL'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'nc/va aren't fully southern'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'hmm... I've done the western swing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but people tend to call them southern states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I know what you mean'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How in the WORLD are WV and NC SOUTHERN swing states?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'was it the Mason Dixon line that divided them originally from north and south?  '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know it's antiquated, but the division still holds'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I might have my history mixed up, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'I think you're right Razkin'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama is pulling away slightly in FL'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the gap is now 50K votes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's kind of like in Illinois, we call the lower 2/3 of the state 'Southern', even though that's not true'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Absolutely no surprises insofar. I say Romney's still a huge longshot to win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'as i see it, romney wins NC/V, and not a lot else out of the so-called battlegrounds'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree, Kraken'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I am no pundit, but FL + OH means doom for the mittens.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and even if he does, I can't see him winning Colorado, and definately none of the other swing states left'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I agree with Kraken.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I bet he wins AZ :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but that won't help him'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'AZ's a swing state now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he is winning AZ by a landslide :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'AZ's not a swing state. or, if it is, then it's game over for republicans'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, it's not a swing state, is a state that wants to put immigrants in prison. A very republican way of thinking :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'It isn't, but it's getting there. (az)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romney won all the votes from Nebraska, which was something somoene earlier asked about '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying Texas is getting there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'My district in northern az is quite liberal.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Arizona as of late is one of the mos right-wing states in the country.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As I see it, Romney can't possibly win this anymore. Florida's going to Obama, so worst case scenario, it'll come down to a Florida re-count, that'll ultimately give Obama victory. But that's not gonna happen, because Ohio's going to Obama as well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the margin for Obama in OH is much more comfortable than in FL.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, but if Obama win's Ohio, it's game over for Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, things could swing, but I agree, I don't personally think that'll happen'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, if Obama wins FL, OH, or VA, it's over for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's not winning VA.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'for Romney to win, he has to take all of those, and something like Colorado'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, current trend puts Obama slightly pulling away from the mittens in FL, also. But it's a crawl.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Other than that, though, Obama's got it in the bag.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it's possible. the northern, urban areas still can put him over the top'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'unlikely, but possible'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, it is possible that all the trending is wrong, one way or the other :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still 21% of votes to go and almost a 3% gap. Survey says "No" (VA).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I believe that Obama has lost VA'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When was the last time California went Red, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I like those 55 safely blue electoral votes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think it happened during a solar flare, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'isn't oregon/washington safe too?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, a long time ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oregon and Washington are safe, yah.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'no clue how many votes they have'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '1988'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, CA did elect a lot of republican governors...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'bush I won california?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'looks like it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he had 436 EV'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'who was he against? mondale?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, I'd have to look that up, but that sounds right'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lol. Apparently, California voted All R 1972-1988. And then it switched over and it's been All D since 1992.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, and I am amazed you remembered his name :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Madale/Ferraro'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it was on the tv earlier :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Wasn't Bob Beckle Mondale's strategist?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he's a big political commmentator nowadays'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well there hasnt been an actor/rep candidate since reagan'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is not clear he had a strategist :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'almost completely off the topic, but Arnold is making another movie, apparently'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'well, he's not got any other real job any moer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'based on his recent autobiography?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh, no'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'last I heard he has stopped production. Can't remember the reason.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, I hadn't read that, but I don't really keep up on him'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'was just something I happened to read a couple weeks ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'RCP is calling 163 electoral votes to Obama. Only 59 more to go before the magic number (since California's 55 is his to lose).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I have no reason for my thoughts, but I can't see Obama losing CA.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '163? my tv's showing 162'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is Missouri a battleground state or something? Nobody's called it yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'MO was called a long time ago,I thought'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'too many immigrants in CA that are afraid it might turn into another AZ.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'BTW, what time is it ET?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh you're right, it hasn't been called'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '10.30?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'type realtime, Yuna :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'MUD time is ET?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When was the last time a New England voted R?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I haven't seen anyone claim that MO would go anything besides R'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'lasher lives in florida, or used to :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(ANY NE state)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but it hasn't been called'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'NE is projected 100% for Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'bush won NH in 2000'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'may have been another one since, dunno'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Thsoe turncoats!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just heard NE was called, all of it , for Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'check the map again, it's all blue :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'new england, not nebraska'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh, sorry  :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in that case, I'd agree'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nevada's blue, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, I forgot the NE is Nebraska. I meant N.E.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nevada was a swing state, but I think it'll go blue'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As I see it, Romney can't win anymore going by math.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no count on NV yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I haven't seen one poll that ever put it at anything more than tied'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's NV?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, Nevada'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, polls are bound to be wrong. I wouldn't pop the cork on the champagne yet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but with Nevada, they were all like 6 points or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and although polls aren't always right, they're a lot better than most people like to give credit for'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'D.C. is hilarious. With 48% of the votes counted, 91.7% has voted Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'depending on the poller, of course'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in the conservative polls (the ones that are not making way out predictions) Obama trails by 11 EV'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'government workers voting for people who don't actively hate the government.. shockig.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romey could still win, I just don't personally think it'll happen, but it's close enough in some states that there's an outside shot'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the gap in FL is now 100K+ votes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but if he loses Florida or Ohio, then it's not even a chance'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '49.9 - 49.3 according to the bbc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'ohio's getting closer, by the looks of things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, that's the gap.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but if .5% is the cut off, then that's more than enough not to go into automatic recount'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'obama's lead is shrinking, but is still twice as big as florida's'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Does D.C. have only the one precinct?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama leads OH by 50K votes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I believe so'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'what do you mean by precint?  I don't think they have any representation in either the house or senate'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they don't.. but they have 3 EC votes i think'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'had to look, but yeah, it's 3'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'every state has at least 3.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or whatever the heck they call "Parts of the city/state where you vote".'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it's 1 per senator and 1 per representative.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and each state has 2 senators, and at least 1 representative.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'DC is an exception, granted by an amendment like 40 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'before that, they didn't have any EVs'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still hilarious. I was looking for states that had voted 70% or more for one candidate. None has... except D.C. (which isn't a state, granted).'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They have no senators'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'territories also have representatives, right?  They just don't vote?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'some of the southern states may do.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'territories have always confused me when it comes to things like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'non-voting delegates to congress i think'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'it seems complex.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they vote for candidates in primaries, but not in the presidential election'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I've never been able to remember all of that'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'they have a congressional delegate (non-voting), but no represenatives or senators'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Does anyone know why the West Coast is so solidly blue?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Hollywood '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Razkin D
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the have more sense than the rest of the country?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'whoops'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure if that arguement would hold up'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hollywood controls all of the West Coast?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, California may be the only state in the nation in more debt than my state, and we're both pretty hardcore liberal states'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '"coastal elites aren't real murikkans"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The heck. RCP just called 184 ECs for Romney (up from 163)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you know the reason california's in debt?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The reason California's in debt is because of Republican mismanagement...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'have a look at their initiative process/state constitution.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'arnold is the reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'majority initiatives to cut taxes/raise spending.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Eva Longoria put it this way:  When I was a waitress waiting to make it big in Holliwood, I needed a tax break. Now that I've made it, I don't need it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'who won massachusett'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '2/3 majority needed to raise taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see what states RCP just called for Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'obama/warren'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'she was referring to Romney's idea of spearing the rich from paying taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'ouch'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama/Warren won Mass.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Bye, Scott!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'there's a theory he'll be back if kerry becomes SoS'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, MA doesn't carry the day but it is certainly a psychological blow.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'thats would have to hurt a little, as governor'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Arizona to go to Romney. No surprises there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'florida is back within a half percent'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama was always going to win Massachussets.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'apparantly, he's 1-4 in the states where he has houses'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody ever doubted that he would.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, AZ believes he will get the JD off their backs :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama is also set to win Wisconsin.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So he's set to win both Romney's and Ryan's states.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'how did he become governor then, seems odd'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'depends how you define romney's state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heck, he's winning Ryan's home county.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'hes fine for governor, but not president?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's HILARIOUS.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'modi - remember, he has a record as governer.. that record wasn't good'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mitt Romney the Governor is so far removed from Mitt Romney the presidential candidate Massachussets can't possibly vote for him.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romney is still up in the popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'mass residents were going to vote him out if he'd tried for re-election'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'razkin - california!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'texas!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mitt Romney the presidential candidate is openly demonizing Obamacare, a system he introduced in Massachussets PRIOR to Obamacare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'texas is called isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but only 35% reporting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'better than 0% in california. polls are still open there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but it's so strongly republican, I think in the popular vote it'll cancel out california'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'so they elected the moderate, not the conservative romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I could be wrong, we'll know in a little while'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'there's 55mill in california, 40 mill in texas?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'something like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'so it won't cancel out fully.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm banking on more turning out on texas'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'MO, IA and MN are runaway trains :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'more republican than democrats that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like I said, I could be wrong, we'll see'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless something drastic happens, Obama's not winning Ryan's district.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but he's up by something like 1.5 mill, so i'm not sure if california is enough to win obama the popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, what Romney needed was a low voter turnout, there are more registered Dems than Reps, so low turnout favors the Reps.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to HuffingtonPost's tracker Romney's taking the 1st congressional district of Wisconsin.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'is ryan winning his house race or not?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'on the low voting, I'd agree.  Most of the republican analysts were banking on a lower turnout'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can run for the House AND VP?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And apparently, yes, he's winning.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They should be calling NC soon'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'shame :( that'd be *really* funny'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hasn't been called yet, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '80k gap, only ~220k votes uncounted'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And lots in blue counties'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'the nation seems pretty split into regions, maybe we should just make two countries out of the usa, red usa/blue usa'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's winning the biggest county in Ryan's district, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'well bad idea, blue owns the coasts'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I agree on N.C. No way Obama can win anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Only 4% of votes left to go and he's 1.8% behind.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I still think it comes down to Ohio and Colorado'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'actually, I misspoke.  Though Obama was up for some reason :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If it does, then Obama's already won.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But since when is Colorado a battleground state?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, that's why I don't think Romney can win'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the demographics have changed enough in Colorado to give Obama the edge'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I dislike how Ohio's getting closer the more votes are counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, you're pulling for Obama, and I don't think Obama needs Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Romney needs Ohio, Obama doesn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at least not now that some of the swing states have gone in his favor'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama doesn't need Ohio. But if he wins Ohio, he'll have won outright. So we wouldn't have to worry about the other battleground states.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, yeah, it would make any recount in Florida meaningless'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If Obama takes Ohio, the math checks out and he's basically declared winner.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he is currently at +23'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '+23%? What state?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or 23k votes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he is +23 EV'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Romney needs 99 EV to win the presidency.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not gonna happen... ever.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they're saying that Florida might be won by less than 10k votes'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'current lead is Obama by 36K'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Darn Nate Silver, calling 49 out of 50 states correctly again. Why not 50?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if Cubans weren't so virulently conservative, Romney would have been wiped  out already :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the fuck is Maine so slow to report?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still 30%?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama in ME by a landslide'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But Maine's still ridiculous slow to count their votes. Only 30% of votes have been reported insofar.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How is that possible for such a teeny tiny state?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nothing beats District of Columbia, though. 91.7% for O.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, they know what's going on, and they seem to like it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'even if you don't pay attention, living in the capital makes you familiar with how politics works :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, Obama got 92.46% of the vote last time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, obviouly he pissed a few off :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Kerrey got 89% in 2004 and Gore 85% in 2000.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Confirmation bias: all the young liberals go there for law/politics careers, and the conservatives avoid it for the same reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Romney 186 confirmed EV. Needs 84.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There is no Wiki for D.C. POTUS votes prior to 1992. Did D.C. not have voting rights for POTUS in 1988 or something?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They did, starting in like 64 or so '
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If I'm not mistaken'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'whenever the 23rd amendment was passed, which I know wasn't in my lifetime'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For every single election since 92, D.C. has voted at least 84% for the D candidate, BTW.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'According to Wiki, D.C. has only participated in presidential elections since 1992 and presidential primaries since 2004.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wow, new reading: Romney is at 186, but Obama just surged to 225.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That or they only have articles for those years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'RCP just called California and Washington for Obama with 0% of votes counted :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '240 according to RCP. What are you reading, Anaristos?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'NC just called for Romne with 99% of the votes counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama trails the popular vote by 3M :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's because California and Washington haven't been counted yet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If my math checks out, even without Florida, Obama should have 290 ECs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'EVs'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'are you giving him ohio?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'let me correct that, Obama trails popular vote by 15M'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Strike that, 284'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, I'm giving him Nevada.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I mean Ohio'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama: 229 Romney 190'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I must say I can't see Obama losing OH'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I think it's going to end up being 290 to 248, myself'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I suppose there's an outside chance of 272, but I woouldn't bet on it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama has 260 EVs even without Ohio.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'romney still winning popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wow Romney got spanked in PA.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, CA and WA not yet account for.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'have any of the 4 gay marriage referendums been projected?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I still dont' understand why they thought that was a swing state'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Those are some huge and hugely blue states.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'insane how many votes california gets'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'huge population'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'they have a lot of people'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Roninleader: 'i live here and i think its insane'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Right now, he doesn't need VA, FL, or OH, assuming he wins CO, NV, and OR'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'CA is the size of an independent country :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'as they are bankrupt and what not, they should get dick'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the largest state by population.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he'll definately win Oregon'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '37 fucking million. That's more than the Nordic countries COMBINED.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if CA goes under, so does the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'ronin- you live in PA?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's definitely winning CN.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'romney spent a lot of money in PA in the last few weeks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or CO or whatever.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, CN is Connecticut and CO is Colorado, right? O's winning both.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'CO is colorado'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'ct is connecticut'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So CN is nothing?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you could put another N on there, I suppose :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'RCP is calling 250 ECs for Obama with Florida and Ohio still not called.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(And without Colorado, Nevada or Oregon called)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Ohio called for Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so it's over'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '250 + CO, OR and NV gives him 272.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Called by whom? Not RCP.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Fox'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but they've been calling basically the same as RCP'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lol. If Fox called it, it's truly over.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, he's down by almost 2% at 70% reporting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I doubt he'd make it up'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Trollololol, Romney won VA, but Tim Kaine (D-VA) won a Senate seat.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That's not that uncommon'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nbc is calling it, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, technically, the race isn't lost yet. With 12% of the vote to go, Romney's lead is less than 1%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but they call it once they get to 97% statistical surety, I guess you could say'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so it could change, but not very likely'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lol Fox news. They're calling 262 ECs for Obama while RCP is only calling 257 ATM.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did Fox News experience a hostile liberal takeover?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't think so, but aren't they owned by cbs or something, or maybe abc'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Fox News is owned by the Fox Corporation, surprisingly enough.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All owned by Rupert Murdoch'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I thought someone else owned them, hrm'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama won. Hey, congrats to those of you Obama fans. But, please try to govern with everyone in mind over the next four years - and to not use the power of the federal government to force too much on people who dont want it.. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I don't think Obama is going into a second term with a mandate'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It was just declared by basically every network.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'okay so nbc/cnn/fox news calling ohio for obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fox just pretty much conceded the election. 275 for Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Fox News calls Obama the winner.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I still want to see what the popular vote turns out to be'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yeup, and according to swing state guide, obama can't lose now'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It really doesn't matter. A split in that only tears the nation apart. I hope Obama gets the popular vote too, now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'surprisingly enough, I agree with you'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'not like it hasn't happened like 3 out of the last 4 election'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's why I hate all these recounts that seem to happen'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It seems Romney won the state where the Democrats held their convention while Obama's gonna win the state where the Republican ditto was held.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, the Democrats won. Just remember, though, with great power - you'll be held responsible what happens in the next four years. 2016 will happen. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Unless the planet blows up on December 21st hehe'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If the Republican keep playing Obstructionist Politics, it's on their heads.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, the houses are close enough that 2014 could be interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But I look forward to you accusing Obama or being a bad leader for not being able to convince the Republicans to not be ostructionists.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So you think the Republicans in the Senate and Congress should lead?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm confused, who is the leader - who sets the tone? The president or ...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's astounding how bad your reading comprehension is if that's what you got out of what I said.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the CFR?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or if you think Obama can just dictate what laws to enact in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, I just want to know who you think should lead and reach out accross the isle?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The whole system must be rejected'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your definition of "reaching out across the aisle" is basically "Do whatever the Republicans want".'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The liberals fault the conservatives, the conservatives the liberals.  The bigger picture is that they're all incompetent'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, its not. Who should be the leader? I really am confused, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Holding the U.S. hostage unless your demands are met is all on the Republicans' heads.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So wait, you think the Republicans should just cave in on everything?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just... go away.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ahahaha. Tod Akin lost.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'wow... what a horrible straw man'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yuna, you have no plan. I dont think you really understand. All you do is pin all the problems on the Republican party. All I think most Americans ask for is for the President to learn to include people who don't agree with him in legislation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'All I am asking is for Obama to work together with Republicans so they won't have to be obstructionist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Republicans have absolutely no plans. None. Obama had plans. The Republicans blocked them. SHUT THE FUCK UP.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Yuna, i just typed 'ignore november' - i suggest you do the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Night!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So they won't "have to be obstructionist"?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You are officially clinically insane.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'honestly, all of the problems ARE on the republican party. They have obsructed nearly everything that we've tried to do as  a country, and have vowed endlessly to repeal what progress we actually have made.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Quarupus, it helps relieve stress to be able to legitimate go off on his insane ramblings.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK what plans? He has not passed a budget...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'everyone is clinically insane.  Kill off half of them and the world won't be any better.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Saric, what do you think about Benghazi?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not as a shortfall of liberals, but of the POTUS and administration in general'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I think it's a tragedy, why?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well then, I just don't think you've learned from what people really want - which is for parties to work together.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Stonewalling information from the American people is the tragedy'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, it's OBAMA's fault that the Republicans HAD to be obstructionist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'perhaps that's what turned people off the gop...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama could give in to some things to gain some of their support. The Gipper did this all the time. People love him to this day, including many Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'there is no evidence of stonewalling, besides, you're completely changing the subject, which is republican obstructionism to any bill attempting to solve our nations problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Remember, 'half a loaf of bread is better than none at all'. Clinton did it too!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, the concern is not the party in administration'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The concern is that the administration fails the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think the most popular presidents learned to work with the other party.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That is their purpose'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The peripheral noise is which party is in the White House'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no plans except to say no. You can only reach across the aisle when the other guys actually have demands beyond "whatever you're not offering"'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, you might need a new pretitle!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'It's all Obama's fault.  We'll win 2016 on that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November's nugget of "wisdom" of "All I am asking is for Obama to work together with Republicans so they won't have to be obstructionist." has been added to my desc for future posterity.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'haha there are hard liner assholes sitting in hotel rooms right now discussing how to block every initiative possible'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I will NEVER let him live it down.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Both parties have plans, but if you're leading the country and they won't vote for you - you should find out why and see if you can make a deal.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh lord, there's a chance ohio might go into a triggered recount >.<'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's not a quote of mine Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'most people on the left admit that Obama went very center in the last four years.  He might be arrogant, but he gave ground on issues.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Now you're being dishonest as well as rude.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What, November?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'it wont matter'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"All I am asking is for Obama to work together with Republicans so they won't have to be obstructionist." is a quote of yours STRAIGHT OFF.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'C+P:ed'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree it won't matter, but it's the last thing we need'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's still avaiable in debate -h.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ahh sorry, yes, that is what I said. Apologies. Yes, he should work with them so they don't have to be obstructionist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you actually clinically insane?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This keeps getting better and better! I'm gonna edit my desc again.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Working together to solve problems, if you can't agree to that, then I just dont know what to say.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, once you spam it out of history, he can start denying it again!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'only psychos cling too far to the left or right'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'too true, Modi.  It's the sociopaths who change up to get what they want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, I did say that - I just read it the wrong way when repeated.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The political system needs an overhaul, rather its members. Until then, the climate has devolved to worse than sports rivalries.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And whats wrong with it? Working together to get people who disagree with you to join up with you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sure, November. Sure.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, you still ahve absolutely no defense to the fact that 30 Republican senators voted no against a bill that allowed U.S. government workers who are raped overseas to report the crime.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a difference between disagreement on issues and disagreeing for the heck of it...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Party of No just votes No on any and all bills Obama puts forth on principle. What the FUCK is Obama supposed to do? Ask them to dictate 50% of the bills?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm sure there was some reason. Cite please?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Give them free power?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've cited that statement 3 times already in your presence. Go Google it yourself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, he should find out why and change the bill just a little to get their support.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or you're just clinically insane.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when was the last time a party has threatened to bring the country to bankruptcy over policy disagreements?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Chemosh, where are you?! I miss you!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it certainly helps matters when a bill about rape can have amendments to buy $200 toilet seats can be added to it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It had no amendments added to it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Link please? I dont know of such a bill. You brought it up, you cite it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Seeing as how you forget waht you yourself said only 5 minutes prior, why am I not surprised?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok, look I apologized for misreading what I said already. Forgive me.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so?  It's a real potential in the overall system.  We can balance the budget to unanimous agreement, but one side is going to vote it down because it, say, outlaws abortion.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And I stand by it too. Obama should work with Senate Republicans.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the system works well, folk just need to be forced to stay on-topic.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'https://www.google.se/search?q=30+republicans+rape+bill+overseas&oq=30+republicans+rape+bill+overseas&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=30+republicans+%22anti-rape+bill%22&oq=30+republicans+%22anti-rape+bill%22&gs_l=serp.3..0i8i30.7852.10210.0.10307.16.16.0.0.0.0.89.792.16.16.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.RS77PAOd0nI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=d1d2dc02003eb0be&bpcl=37643589&biw=1180&bih=968'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The goal isn't to balance the budget'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'holy cow ok one second'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's like any shortfall'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not for want of any measure or regulation; they just aren't doing it'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Then ponder why'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Dubya did it, Obama did it; they're all culpable'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK I'm on a shit connection in the middle of the California desert. Give me a second.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok well, that's just loading for a bit - put that on the back burner. On its face value I wouldn't agree with it but I will read it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And you said 30, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well there must have been what 11 or 12 other GOP senators right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama: 265, Romney : 200'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look I didn't say he had to work with every GOP, just a few that he needs to break a fillibuster.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'THAT's your fucking defense?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heh, everyone might have gotten Ohio wrong...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They didn't ALL vote against the anti-rape bill?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'THAT's how we're playing it?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You are seriously disturbed in the head.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama-Biden's slowly chipping away at Romney-Ryan's popular vote lead, BTW.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK this is still loading. I'll read it and talk about it some other time, promise.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah I really hope it isn't split.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'Further dooming us all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the fuck is loading a simple website taking you so long?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dialup'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I got a lot of shit open, and its just slow (bad connection in the middle of nowhere)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for a savvy, modern person, you sure are clueless about some things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, was afk, but yeah, Obama is only about 250k behind Romney'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think I know what my technical problem is, hehe. OK I'll read it and get back to you soon.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My desc is full.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you get off on the rape-thing. Unless I feel like removing the WeaponGuy quotes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, the laptop is just overheated. One moment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Hanslanda, even on Dial-up, unless he's constantly torrenting, opening a simple webpage shouldn't take 10+ fucking minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'children, what a topic for debate :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'walking tax levies for folk who don't have 'em.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'John Kerrey lost his Senate seat o_O'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless that's some OTHER Kerrey...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I thought it was John Kerry, and that he was a Massie senator?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ah. BOB Kerrey.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah, it's John Kerry.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'We can debate on wether or not i should A) Keep working my crap job and barly getting by- or B) Quit the job, and just skim by on the governments dime.. Can't beat em join em... .. debate!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It depends. Do you want to live on even LESS money?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'do both.  It's not fraud until you get caught.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Ok here's the full link to the bill. CPU is back to normal temps. http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00308'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think you can download the bill here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, November?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And your defense is?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'First, can you confirm I have the right bill?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I'm not going to read this and then find out later I have the wrong one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Corporations should be able to require their employees to sign away any and all legal rights they wish them to sign away"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, that's the one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did I miss something?  I thought the link you gave was the rape bill?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK, I'll read it and I'll let you know how I feel on it. But if it is as you say, then I'd probably agree with you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'll have to amend one part of my statement, though:'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No government funds shall go to companies that restrict, among other things, a woman's right to report rapes committed against them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But, you don't need 30 republicans, your party only needed 2 or 3 to get things passed. Clinton and Reagan could do it, I think asking Obama to it as well is not too much.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT THAT.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There is NO defense to their "No" votes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well that's the point we were arguing before that right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'wow'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The bill PASSED. But 30 Republicans still vote "No".'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That you couldn't get 30 republicans to vote with Obama and they are obstructionist?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yuna, there's something you don't know'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So SHUT UP about you BLAMING Obama for not reaching across the aisle when it's so clear that the Republicans are voting "No" on Democratic bills ON PRINCIPLE.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's a huge feminist movement here, which is just veiled mysandry'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well not all republicans did on this one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, by some measures, there are no more centre-right republicans in the house or senate...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'AND?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"rapes" can now be "buyer's remorse"'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The female republicans voted Yes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Not ALL of them were obstructionsits this time!".'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What a BRILLIANT defense.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'You see, Obama can reach accross the isle and get their vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'atleast someone is voting on principal.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It can happen.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what, you are officially touched in the head. There is no other explanation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'It just needs to happen a lot more.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, I haven't read the bill yet - Yuna has already - so I'm not at an advantage here on this one. But, I would generally vote against such a thing if that is the case.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it can happen like israel can get an al qaeda leader to support them...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some things just aren't happening...'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did you just say you'd vote AGAINST the bill?'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'So, Obama can work with Republicans and Conservatives, my point being he needs to do so more now that he's been re-elected.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'clearly he did.  Demrage, max power!'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well I haven't read it. I'm not Nancy Pelosi. I don't know how I'd vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama was been declared the unofficial winner 284 to 280 so far'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The bill is one step in a series of steps to emasculate males'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '284 to 200'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not bad per se, but will start an avalanche backed by man-hating feminists and manboobs'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if there were centrist republicans that he could work with in the first place... Those got primaried into oblivion already'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's not a bad margin for a mandate, but I am sure it will be reduced.'
T3/r7/2012-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like talking to a wall. No matter what, it will always be Obama's fault and the Republicans are doing nothing wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There are no moderates anymore'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dems spent at least 4 years parroting the same argument about Bush.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are plenty among the dems... a minority, but they do exist'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Too much of a "liability"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anyone have a source that tells us about the 4 amendments to state constitutions regarding same-sex marriage?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Do you think Democrats act the same way? Or is every problem the Republican's fault?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'My principles are somewhere in the middle, but I don't subscribe to the current system'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Neo-cons vs. commies is what we have'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, Maine voted in favour of same-sex marriage, surprise, surprise.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'everyone thinks their principles are in the middle'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'haven't met anyone who thinks he's a crazy extremist yet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Most young people are proud be liberals, and people tend to become more conservative with age'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Thought and reality are two different things'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi coughs loudly.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I haven't met any who think they're extremists, period.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maine voted 54.4% in favour of repealing a same-sex marriage ban (surprise, surprise). Only 46% of votes have been counted, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't self-brand as "extremist", but their ideology places them as such'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"extremist" is one of those words that means "across the line over there, but not me"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like "slut"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or "conspiracy"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'With 50% of the votes counted, it's 51.8% - 48.2% in Washington on whether or not same-sex marriage should be legalized.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'debate In Minnesota, a bill to BAN same-sex marriage is currently losing 49.3% to 46.5%'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And in Maryland, a law to allow same-sex marriage is currently going 51.5% - 48.5% for the "Yes" side.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(84% of votes reported)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sounds like good news.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, we're currently 4 out of 4. Some a really close, though, with lots of votes to go.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It will eventually pass, for better or worse'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But as people have pointed out, rural areas are generally the first ones to report their votes with the urban areas counted last and urban areas are generally more liberal.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'This bill is an ammendment to the Defense Appropriations Act, probably so that the Senate can pass it before it goes on to the President I take it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No longer will the Republicans and other anti-gay forces claim that same-sex marriage rights have always been voted down by the people after this election!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Now, I believe the Defense Appropriations Act is the budget for the DoD, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '4 out of 4 bills going the Gay Mafia's way would also send a strong message.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Women are a major voting bloc, you can thank them'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Trollololol.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you realize that what the people want isn't necessarily ironclad?  The people might overwhelmingly vote to give marriage rights to hershey hounds, but the new legislature might just pass a law going the opposite way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's leading in  Virginia at the moment!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh my fucking god, those urban areas are really going to give Obama Virginia.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama has been declared the winner...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can calm down, he already's won re-election.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Doubt it Hans; too strong a feminist agenda'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, but this will mean that Nate Silver called 50 out of 50 states correctly.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK, this bill is very long and complicated. I'm no legislator. But, generally speaking if what Yuna says is right then I would side with the 70 that voted the ammendment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and while he may still lose the popular vote there is no doubt in the EV.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not just about winning, it's also about crushing your opponent. Obama taking Virginia is just too funny.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It would mean that, what, every single swing-state voted for Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seiph: 'a sad day in america for sure.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Single, educated, urban women will always vote liberal - they're a big bloc of groupthinking lemmings'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well, is North Carolina a swing state?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Not so sad for me, I have to say.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, expect the Senate to continue to be held hostage by the Republicans. Democrats can't possibly get a super majority anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Negligible for certain things, but bad news down the road'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Still have Virginia and Florida uncalled.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'IN and NC switched to R'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the mittens can win them both, it won't matter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's all that matters, Ana.  For the thousands in attendance, and the millions--and MILLIONS!--out there in TVLand, voting for the president really is just a popularity contest.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the heck is IN? Illinois?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Indiana'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oooh.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama carried it in 2008'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos peers intently at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'lost IN this time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hakuna Sakata bursts into tears.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'To understand this bill, Yuna I'm going to have to read the entire DoD act. Its going to take a while.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, N.C. is counted as a swing-sate. Not Indiana, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the have given OH to Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They have, Anaristos.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I dont think it matters, he can't win with OH anyways. Obama won re-election. Congratulations to the Obama fans.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'check out this quote: There was a great opportunity for a skilled Republican to tap into the electorate's pain and come out as a leader like Bill Clinton did to George Bush, Sr.  Mitt Romney, an out-of-touch, disconnected, businessman is no Bill Clinton.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It really depends on whether or not Obama wins Florida.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney can win if he gets Florida AND Ohio, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not an obama fan, but sure as hell happy that romney did not win. WW3 postponed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think he needed FL, OH, VA and one more.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, OH has been given to Obama. Obama was declared the winner without OH or FL'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh wait, no, that's if he wins Virginia as well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But the other ones like CO and IOWA are called Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, he needs another one? Then nvm.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Obama is going to get like 310 votes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'CO and IA went to Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Maybe more.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If he wins Virginia, he's gonna get 313.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I just really hope he wins the popular vote too. I don't want a torn situation here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If he wins Florida as well, it'll be 342'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yep, a smashing win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'OK time to change the title, and remove the bumper-sticker.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama won OH by 2.3%. Rather not close.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'He did'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'How is he still behind in the popular vote? Probably because they haven't counted all of California yet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he doesn't need to win the popular vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's possible to win the presidency yet lose the popular vote if you simply lose the red states by a larger enough margin than you win the blue states.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That's right. It just would repeat 2000.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'But in reverse.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the people don't elect the president, the states do.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'but what president wouldn't like to win the popular vote? How does that feel to say you live in a democracy and win the presidency with less than half the vote?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '2000 was special.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'not saying the electoral college is all bad, but you really want to win the popular vote'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because the US is not a democracy, it's  republic.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'That is a correct statement Anaristos. '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Doesn't mean winning the popular vote isn't important to the President'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'constitutional convention. the founding fathers did not trust an ignorant populace. hence the electoral college'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was only special because democrats expected the courts to side with them, had the state courts side with them, then had the federal courts tell them to STFU.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'then why did they let us vote at all Ohm?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'make the ignorant feel good. they had no other choice'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the votes are internal to the states, the states elect the president.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it makes us feel good, not just the ignorant.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'currently the states cast their EV for the winner of the internal popular vote, but there is no constitutional provision to force them to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It's true the Founding Fathers were worried about rampant majorities, but what you said about the electoral college is mainly myth. The college was designed to ensure that States have a say in how the President is picked. Nevertheless, the Constitution mandates that each State provide a "republican form of government." The whole Revolution was based on taxation w/o representation. Obviously we are supposed to vote and be heard'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'note than in the presidential elections, voters in the states don't vote for the president per se. They vote for a slate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The EC is around to stay. Small states would never vote for an ammendment to the Constitution.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Small in population that is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'but we were given a republic, not a democracy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'So? What does Republican mean?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Citizens elect delegates who act for them'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'whatever they say it means'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, regarding my earlier statement about the 4 states voting on same-sex marriage rights...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'As I pointed out before, you change the way the presidency is selected would require a constitutional amendment. The amendment will not pass because they states would lose control of the presidency.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Wouldn't it be simpler to just allow 1 vote per person, and count all votes. The most votes win.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maryland and Washington are voting on whether or not to approve laws that have ALREADY PASSED their legislatures that would allow same-sex marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, but then that would be a democracy, Ranrr. As I said, the US is not a democracy, it's a republic.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'States have no real control over it now. State powers were wiped out in reconstruction. We should do away with the electoral college'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So when (not if) the voters ultimately approve the laws by majority vote, the laws WILL go into effect (not immediately, obviously).'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'a national recount might be a nightmare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right, Ana, forgot about that :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It would still be organized by each state Malkar. But that's a good point. And we would still be republican in that our legislature would be made up on elected delegates'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and it is not clear that such an amendment would be stricken down anyway. The states could claim that it violated their rights under the 14USAmend.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'would not*'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'an amendment would override that concern Anaristos'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you cannot pass an amendment that violates rights. Or, rather, the SC would strike it down on those grounds.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'in legal construction more narrow clauses are given fuller effect than broader statements, so an amendment changing the election of the president (which was done many times) would not be in violation of the 14th amendment'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, maybe so. I doubt that they would get 38 states to pass such an amendment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah, you could pass an amendment to the constitution violating rights. How could an amendment outlawing abortion be unconstitutional? What you consider a constitutional right is a right only b/c it is possible of being interpreted as such under the Constitution'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yuna did you read this bill? Its like 1000s of pages long (including the DoA act, which it ammends)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'yeah, getting 38 states is a problem. The next amendment push will be a backlash against Citizens United, and it's already started'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'anyway the popular vote is narrowing down :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, Alaska's polls haven't even closed yet?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look I'm a Romney fan and I hope it flips.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'only 25K separation'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, they're probably at 10 PDT'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Err 10 PST'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It's still incredibly close, and I'm sad America is so divided. That we can't find a leader who can actually bring us together'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well that leader has to be Obama, Tipro.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'He will be the President, but it doesn't mean he's a "leader" in the fullest sense of the word. Clearly, Romney was not either'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Romney is irrelevant now. He has to be a leader. He's our? president.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, AK and HI haven't started they count yet. HI has been given to Obama by default.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'AK was way ahead for Romney, it doesn't matter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I mean someone who can actually bring people together and gather the country behind him. Not get 49.9% of the vote against the other guys 49.9% and say that gives you a mandate'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Hey, it was more than 47%'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and even though it no longer matters, there will not be a recount in FL, the winning margin is .7%'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'They should cancel it. This country is broke. Save the money. Pass a law to change that right away.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And I have to tell you, when this country goes belly-up broke, the whole world is going to change - Thomas Hobbes style probably.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'non-medical pot is now fully decriminalized in Colorado.  How long do you think it'll be before it gets taxed out of reach like cigarettes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Police will still charge people with federal possession when possible'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more importantly, how many Coloradans do you think will view it as their hardwon civic duty to not try to avoid paying these higher taxes on their beloved drug by reverting to their bootleg ways?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Police don't enforce federal laws AFAIK'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they do in DC :.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'they do everywhere. They have the option of bringing you up on federal charges if they choose'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'DC is not a state.  Literally.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so who won'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, DC is a federal district. But the MPD still enforce locally.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the police has the mandate to enforce any and all the laws of the land.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro nods at SnailBot Anaristos.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so that's federal, state, county and city.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Now the fed's are limited in their ability to control state police, but state police can charge you with a federal crime'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Just out of curiosity, I'm wondering what the Aard vote would have been today. Type "O" or "R".'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama, obviously.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'O here'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'L'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You're a clan leader.  Go start a public vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Did that mean something, Lenei?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the hell is L?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just that if you want to know, you can start a poll in your public clan hall on your voting booth, assuming you have one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And all of Aard can vote, and you'll get your answer'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I just asked on this channel is all. '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Some people are not Democrat or Republican.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'You can answer the question or not. Your call.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'I think I'm one step closer to becoming Tigernuts. *shudder*'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'O passed R in the popular. Finally. Phew.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Is colorado the first state to legalize marijuana completely?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Look it up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'did they thought is was denver'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I believe so.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'denver is in colorado...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea but not all of colorado'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They legalized it, just wasn't sure if it was legal in any other states'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'After scanning the channel, one thing that's kind of encouraging *not* to see is a bunch of gloating.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Yeah, right now we need a healer in chief. Badly.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hard to gloat when you have a tough task ahead.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama has surged by 100K on popular vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ohh wow completely legal in colorado and washington'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'He's still going to pick up over another million in CA'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, that's true. Though 1M is not really that big a margin.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Well thats what I said like 20 minutes ago. CA hasnt finished counting.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and VA went for Obama in spite of the early readings.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'FUCK YOU Minnesota!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Why are you saying that, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'And did you read this entire bill? Its the entire defense spending bill.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK is the race for the 6th district still so fucking close?! Bachmann is currently leading Graves 50.1% to 49.9% with 68% of the votes counted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, why tax the rich and the big corporations. Let them get a free ride. Let the middle class carry the load. But wait, the US no longer has a middle class. Bummer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'November, you're insane. The republicans voted down that specific amendment on its own, not as part of the package.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'The six page ammendment. Yes, that's right. But to understand why, you'd have to understand the whole picture.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heh, Nevada actually has a "None of these" option for president.  0.5% of the vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'Maybe there was something in there that they thought was a bad idea.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe you're a partisan insane hack.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'No, not really Yuna. On many occasions I've gone against the opinions of Republicans and have and would side with your position.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Romney on November: 'We've agreed to a Voter-ID together, and I probably would agree with you on this bill. Its just long and hard to read.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I oppose any type of national ID.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am not a mood to be part of a dictatorship.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'That's kind of a tricky issue. You need an id to drive a car or to buy a beer, but not to vote.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, and we know what that ID gets you already. The state keeps track of you as closely as they want. Now put that on the federal stage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Hey, I see that Rhavage just crossed a state line, let's make a note of that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They're going to know I sit around in my underwear and play video games all day!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, how would anybody know if I crossed a state line?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course any of you who has activated the GPS on their phone is already being tracked. If you don't believe so, read the fine print on the contract :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You know those strips they have in the parking lot at the grocery store that stop you from taking the carts off the lot?  They'll put those on all state lines.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, at least they will put detectors to read the info off your ID.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'shrugs, I personally wouldn't have a problem with that'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'As long as Joe Blow can't get access to it'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, as a matter of principle it is no one business what one does as long as it is lawful.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But not everyone is doing lawful stuff'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so the justification is that they will keep track of me just in case I decide to violate the law?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Sure.  Isn't that the point of making you register a gun when you buy it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'in case you shoot someone with it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'not that everyone agrees with that, of course'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the purpose of a gun is to kill. that is not may purpose.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I suppose I could get in my car, drive from upstate NY to Florida and not make a single call and nobody knows where I am. But then I make a call from Fla and now my location is known. So the question then is... do I really care? Hundreds of millions of us can be tracked the same way.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not making a call is not enough, Rhavage. You also have to keep your phone turned off.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and if you turn it on when you get where you are going all you did was not let them know how you got there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Either way, should I really care? Do you see a solution? remove gps from phones? '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Think his point is that that stuff is already in place.  Would an ID card really add that much to fight over?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't use gps, I buy Thomas maps.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'm not that stealthy. '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Every time you use a credit/debit card, "they" know where you are.  Etc.  So not like an ID card would really make that much of a difference'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am not being stealthy. I just use my ability to read maps.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Hell, I can read a map like it was a children's book. I can also read interstate signs. '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'then don't activate your gps :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ahahahahahahaha. The Wisconsin Republicans must be having a heart attack.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Why not? I don't think the gov't is my enemy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tammy Baldwin became the first openly gay Senator and will vacate her House Set, which will be taken by Mark Pocan, ALSO openly gay.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the government is not a person, the some persons working for the government may decide to become your enemy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and frankly, even if they don't become my enemy, just because it is not any of their business where I am.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'As long as you have an address, they've got quite a good line on you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and the problem with that knowledge in the hand of those with power is that they don't need a reason to use it. They may use it just because they can. History is replete with examples.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'fine, let them come to my house :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that is the place to contact me'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I'm sure history is replete with examples of catching dangerous fugitives because they used a credit card or made a phone call.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Unless you're Steve Bartman.  That man can never use a credit card anywhere ever again.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Take the information away, and there's no way to abuse having it. Take the information away, but there are still ways to catch criminals.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Poor Steve. Few people have been as unfairly abused.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so let me ask you this, Rahvage. Have you gone to your nearest police station yet and deposited a sample of your DNA?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'No, I haven't. Why do you ask?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I see people peeing on the police building all the time'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that is one way they can find out who has committed crimes and so by donating your DNA sample you simplify the their task. And since you are a lawful person, it doens't matter that they can track you by DNA.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ahh, ok. Well, I don't feel any particular need to clear myself in advance.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and I agree with you, there is no reason why I shouldn't swipe my id card at designated checkpoints so that the police can now at any given time my relative position.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'know*'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'That said, it's nearly 1:15 here in the east and I'm dead tired. Night, all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'good night, Rhavage :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Night, Ana :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rhavage waves to all.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Ok folks, check out my new full title.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Gotta love Gary Johnson's concession speech: "Well, you can't blame me for the next 4 years"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(think that was probably before it was decided who was going to win)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'By the way, my title is a joke - I will actually remove it at some point. I'm not that partisan.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'an amusing waste of tps!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Thank you! :) TPs should be spent on fun stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I will be happy to blame someone else, Leinei :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos points excitedly at Rubio on November!
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe the problem was that Sarah Palin endorsed him :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Sarah Palin says that an Obama re-election would represent a 'catastrophic setback' to the US economy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Mitten's kiss of death :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Haha. Well, there will be a lot of talk about it. Congratulations again to all the liberals and democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'what is the limit on cursing ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'uh curse channel is sufficent'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'ya but I mean how offensive can I be, I had a feat joke in response to Sarah Palin having an opinion'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Heh, FL is still not declared even though 98.6% of the vote has been counted. The only holdout. 49 states are done.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I will say this, in most states that Romney won, it wasn't even close :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'so after tonight, has anything really changed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course not :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'though, now that Obama doesn't have to worry about re-election in 4 years, he can kick some ass if he wants to.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'I predict that now, since his economy has really tanked because of his policies, he is in a I dont care what happens mode. He's going to rape the Govt. for all he can and get as much free crap as he can get. Taking the same way as Bush did. Second term means open range to me.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'second term means you dont have to answer for anything after you are done.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'interesting result ... the US still believes hollywood is realy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'real*'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone happy about the result ? and why ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'I am very unhappy with the results becasue I am military. Ive seen first hand how our current leader has handled us. Its not cuts in spending, it's cut in personnel.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fuck you Minnesota. Bachmann won re-election.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What is WRONG with Minnesota's 6th congressional district?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney claims he never again shall seek election to public office. Anyone who truly believes that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I do'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'why would he lie about that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'hopefully the republican party will have a stronger shift towards Ron/Rand Paul by 2016. The Tea Party is in force and the Ron Paul supporters are powerful'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because he lies about pretty much everything? Also, he changes his mind all the time. I don't think it'll happen anytime soon. But it'll probably happen sometime down the road, like, in 2020 or something. Not for POTUS, but poswsibly the House or Senate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'why continue beating the man down?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'you realize he's 65 right? 2020 he'll be 73'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'b/c no he doesnt "lie about pretty much everything"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You realize we have had senators much older than that, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like Sarah Palin. She kept saying "I'm not gonna run for POTUS" but a few months ago, all of a sudden it was "Never say never. Who knows? Possibly."'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'politicians are liars... nothing new'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I for one welcome a Palin/Bachmann ticket. I still wanna slap the 6th congressional district in Minnesota for re-electing Bachmann.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'and in the case of romney, everyone knew he wouldn't get elected on the agenda he had to get elected as the republican canditate. The republican party is way too conservative for any replican to get elected right now based on their core beliefs. Any repuclican would have to sway towards the middle like romney did to get elected.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't understand Romney. Why did he sway more to the center while primarying but then became more and more right-wing during the general election?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'actually it's the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'all of a sudden he was agreeing with the democrats come general election'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless I'm very much mistaken, he was more to the center during the primaries.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'or rather, he didn't outright show how right-wing he is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'during the general election he tried to tone down the conservative beliefs and agreed on many points of the democratic policies, that to me is going more towards the left'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No-no, you're mistaking lying to the general public while reassuring his voterbase that he was still right-wing as with moving towards the center.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'either or, he was more open with his right wing politics during the primary'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Either way, good riddance. He's either a flip-flopper, a liar or both.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'and my personal belief is that right now you can't win the general election considering how extremely conservative the replublican party is, and that's why he tried to tone it down'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're mistaking "conservative" with "bat-shit insane".'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still can't believe the Texan Republican Party still won considering their 2012 platform included "We're against critical thinking in school".'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Since both parties stretch from around the middle and out toward weird wings, it's a bit inaccurate to pretend that one part owns the centre'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'some states will always be republican, and some will always be democrats, I don't think anything can change that'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'As for Obama, I expect four more years of the same.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'you're right tinada, but I think the republicans are further off from the centre and that might be what cost them this year'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'and lately they've been going even further away from the "centre"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It didn't cost them much besides the POTUS election.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They lost 3 seats in the senate and still control the house. Ooooooouh. The hooooorror.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If 1.2% of voters had shifted around, we'd be explaining Romney's win, so it's down to a small number of marginal voters with little party connection.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or, if you like, democrats having more press support :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're not understanding how the EC works, Tinada.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'and yeah, if the republicans were more towards the centre they could've swayed those voters'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'and press support is bought, the candidates are bought which is a growing base for corruption, which is another problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the vote is split 50-48, it doesn't make that much sense to talk about someone being more toward the centre, imo. You can't tailor platforms with that kind of accuracy level.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'so if the voters split evenly for a left part and a right party you can't talk about different politics cause the voters are split?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the vote is split very near the centre, you either have to assume that both parties are approximately equally far from the centre, or you have to start discussing whether the median voters are not at the centre.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Morning Aardwolf, are the libs still celebrating and the cons still sobering up?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Oh Yuna, here is the best argument that explains Franken Amdt. No. 2588: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091021150753AA7P5fQ. Read the 'best answer' section too. It explains why GOPers in the Senate might be against the ammendment. We'd have to ask each one individually if we wanted their opinion. I honestly have no opinion on this one way or the other at this moment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What? 3/5ths of the U.S. have bans on smoking in public places?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For the first time ever, I wish my country was more like the U.S. (in this one measure)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'US Stock Markets crash shortly 2% after opening.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'eheh sorry, Shortly after opening'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Haven't been getting a lot of sleep. Working long hours will do that to you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) THe HuLk Topfox: 'sooo this chanel is off to all others right? :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You call a 2% decrease a crash?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) THe HuLk Topfox: 'damn thought i had found a dead chanel :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'OK, I admit that was a bit too strong. Its the largest one-day drop (so far) in five months. '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: '2% correction so far, we'll call it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As usual, skewing of the facts to spread fear.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well without the government infusion of campaign cash, of course the market dropped'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wonder why it dropped by 2%. Couldn't have been because of cranky old, rich white men acting out.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Crash isn't a fact. Its an opinion. The fact is 2%. That is not a skew at all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I've already heard we won't have elections in 2016 because the nukes will fly.  I opted not to respond to the guy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who was the guy? DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'friend of friend on facebook'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Fiscal cliff issues are seen as more likely with Obama reelected, since there is a 4yr history of not-so-much cooperation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'And any commentator worth his wages can conjure up another handful of reasons.. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'I'm going for Marco Rubio. The GOP needs a shake-up. We need a Hispanic President, and two national languages.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Rand Paul 2016'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and I dont even vote for Ron Paul'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'this year's election results give me hope though that the Republicans will choose a different strategy than non-action.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'We need to get with it, you know - become hip. Hip sells. The mere fact you have no plan, can't handle the economy or the world doesn't matter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'even Newt Gingrich said it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'The old generation, the boomers, are done out of mainstream GOP political office, imho.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'new republicans don't care about social issues, which is a shame'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'they're still a noteworthy chunk of voters though.  Especially in close states like Florida.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'They will, next time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'they talk about "liberty," but they don't have the guiding principles that an early generation did'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'We'll say things like - Illegal immigration: No biggie! Become a citizen because we want you here. Spanish speaking? No problem. It's a national language.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Yuna: Do many people speak multiple languages in Sweden?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'having English as a national language would actually unite America'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'It is a national language...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Sure. They all speak English, and as well as we do.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I do think we overspend on welfare.  The fact that immigration is a "problem" speaks volumes.  Human capital should be an asset, not a liability.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'there is a stark polarity in many places in America where people don't speak anything but Spanish, and integrating those communities into the larger American sphere would be an excellent step towards better immigration'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It is the de facto official language, but the U.S. doesn't have an official language in statute.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In fact, most countries don't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'That's super! We need to support that. Become a larger tent. Keep the principles. Expand. Get with it. Get on facebook and twitter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'but it should Yuna. Requiring English for citizenship would be great'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Connect with all people from all walks of life. Marco Rubio, November 8th 2016.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'd agree with requiring some basic English for citizenship.  If only because it's kinda dangerous to not even be able to know the laws because their in an unknown language.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'they're, even'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro is agreeing with that Taokan person again...
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'I'm suggesting two national languages: English and Spanish for the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'So you can speak either. If you only know one, you'll eventually learn enough of the other to get by.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I say we merge them.  Have an official spanglish that's unique to us'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'thats not true November. Hispanics by and large don't care to learn English'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Given that CBO says federal (gaap) deficits were 5.6t and 5t in 2010 and 2011, you're clearly overspending on something'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'they have their own, separate communities which are completely removed from the larger part of American society'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'I mean enough to get by. You know, very low level stuff like restaurant English or Spanish.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I'm pro-legal immigration, I just think requiring English would be great to make immigration better'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Taokan is agreeing with that Rubio on November person again...
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Its going to take generations, but it will work out.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah I don't think they should be required to comprehend Shakespeare, but some level of passing comprehension should be required'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'We get Rubio to go down to Rio in 2016 for the Olympics and get Latin America excited about his Presidency - and he can keep his base? It will be a slam dunk. Against who? Biden or Hillary, lol.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'No way for HIllary 2016. I dunno. Who else is a contender?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'she's retiring'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Got to be younger. Think - no baby boomers.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I would like to see Kucinich, but there's no way he has any kind of chance'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and he's not really "young" or "hip"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Hahah, he's an old krank. He's the Ron Paul of the left.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'that's Sanders'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'Condoliza Rice?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'probably too early for the Dems to pull out the gay card, but I'll wager about 2020 or 2024 they'll run an openly gay candidate'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: '(completely unrelated to Rice comment btw)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: '(although she does look kinda butch)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'heh, they could run Michelle Obama :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'they almost did the back to back with Hillary/Bill'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Stocks down 300pts. *frown*'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'http://www.cnbc.com/id/49725783'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'let it crash.  I've got my money in bonds waiting for the next austerity battle over the budget.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'You know they can default, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'not a chance in hell with Goldman Sachs in office'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'plus, the way I look at it is if the US govt defaults, we're all equally hosed.  Down to the assets we own, I've got my house and 2 cars, which isn't great, but it's enough.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'did I miss the "why Rommel should have one" rant?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'had a discussion about women's rights in divorce and alimony cases:'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'Men are going to stop getting married. Women will pressure the government to allow women the right to take money from men for just being in a relationship. The government will happily oblige to gain more power over the people. Prostitution will become safer than having a girlfriend, if it isn't already. Birth rates will collapse. The family unit will disappear. Western society and freedom will disappear. The police state will control all aspects of family life because men and women couldn't sort it out themselves. Men, stop giving in to women.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so here's the good news that might have gotten missed from the election:'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Colorado and Washington pass propositions legalising the recreational use of pot'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A number of Ron Paul-ite members make it to the house'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Oregon vote against a pot proposition, but their government believes they own all the rain that falls in their state, so clearly their constituents are bonkers'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'the use isn't legalized the possession is'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'the use was always legal its the loophole possession which now is limited to one ounce'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the proposition was to legalise the recreational use of'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'NPR had a nice segment on it'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only other downer is California, which is proving once again the stereotype that Californians are dumber than a box of rocks by voting AGAINST the labelling of presence of GMO ingredients in food'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, USA is to send Patriot rocket platform to the Turkey/Syria border'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't like the look of this one: TSA plans to track all daily travels to social events, grocery store or work'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they have the technology in place pretty much to do that already here in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama did manage to make me laugh today'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'enjoy your 1000 years of darkness'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be ok, i've got solar panels'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'not you. americans'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, well, who cares about them?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you seem to'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually i care about their country, not them'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're mostly ill-bred and stupid'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'There's a difference?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and you live in the 51st state'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'skin color.  Anything dark tends not to think too well as they're mostly on the dole or otherwise liberally-inclined.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'enjoy your fiscal cliff :-) we'll be joining you in a couple of years'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Priceless, that. Nothing like a sweeping generalization. Most Americans are ill-bred and stupid. So of the 300 million of us, does that mean roughly 151 million, or vastly more?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well thanks, Rhavage, someone had to rise to it'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'vastly more.  Aren't like 200 million of that illegals?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I do what I can.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts ruffles Rhavage's hair playfully.
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'help me vote here for my police and crime commissioner'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'probably more. include all the people who voted for romney and maybe the half of the ones that voted for obama (or a third, quarter. your choice)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jamie Athill, Stephen William Bett, James Michael Joice, Steve Morphew, Matthew James Smith'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Do the police and the crime commissioner work together or as adversaries? Is the crime commissioner an agent of crime?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'not everyone who voted for Romney is stupid... particularly those people who would benefit from his pro-rich, pro-corporatist policies'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'go with MJS.  He's the only one with a unique first name.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as i'm converned, they're an overpaid beurocrat post designed to annoy the fuck out of police forces that are trying to get on with their job'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, but that's a very small minority'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, Hans, he was the one I was thinking of, being the UKIP candidate'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'fits into margin of error'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'perhaps'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Obama's speech he claimed to stand for freedom and liberty for all. Just a shame his 'all' doesn't include preppers, army veterans and patriots. Shame his 'freedom and liberty' didn't include the innocent people he's murdered in Pakistan and Yemen, or the people he harasses and humiliates with his TSA paedophile goon squad '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will be very interesting to see what he does with this fiscal cliff'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'he is a politician. a politicians job is to lie'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the TSA was founded in 2001, this was during Bush's presidency'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are we going to actually start seeing some viable policies that are in line with his touted beliefs, policies that will help America and the world, or are we just going to see the surveillance net tighten and the police state grow?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'founded, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'considered he's outspent all the other presidents combined, I don't expect him to slow down but to go faster.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'expanded hugely by Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'sources, please'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'this is exactly the same sort of thing that Hoover and FDR first tried, hoping to stave off the great depression.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'from what I've seen, Obama has not made comments supporting the TSA's idiotic policies, so I think it's a stretch to say it's "Obama's TSA". Quotes would be nice, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also, romney campaign spent more'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama's been campaigning for 4 years.  I don't really think he was outspent, so much as he didn't have to claim taxpayer funds as part of his spending.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Two studies by a group of Cornell University researchers have found that strict airport security has the unintended consequence of increasing road fatalities, as would-be air travelers decide to drive and are exposed to the far greater risk of dying in a car accident.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/campaign-finance'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'That's kind of interesting, Saric. Something that had never occurred to me.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I bet road rage is much more of a problem as well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Agreed. I hadn't thought about it either, just read it on Wikipedia and thought it was interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and with all this extra gas being used, global warming's bound to come roaring back worse than ever since there are so many more older and less-efficient cars still on the roads.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'TSA budget gone from $5.3bn to $8.1bn. http://tinyurl.com/cq398qp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Security_Administration'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'extension of TSA power and scope through various articles here:'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/ccm6cej  http://tinyurl.com/65fvt2h http://tinyurl.com/arca35a http://tinyurl.com/ac46nk2 http://tinyurl.com/bjvn898  http://tinyurl.com/a8e646t http://tinyurl.com/a8gd2df'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the wiki article though is the most damning with the meteoric rise in complaints'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and think about the child abuse.  With all the bratty kids we have nowadays that we can't really slap sense back into, locking the parents into a day(s)-long road trip to visit the family's bound to make something snap.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I'm reading the TSA wikipedia article now... it's depressing that this organization exists still'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i didn't even add the bit where obama's administration threatened Texas with an air blockade if it went along with it's plans to remove TSA officers'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, that makes sense.  Threaten the only state in the union that actually HAS the right to secede.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor did i include the fact that Michael Chertoff, a former Secretary for DHS set to benefit financially from the naked body scanners despite them not actually being fit for purpose AND being dangerous... and that they were rolled out as a result of a false flag attack (underear bomber) '
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://rt.com/usa/news/naked-body-scanners-usa/'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the TSA really is one of the run-away independent organisations that does what the hell it likes for the benefit of the people running it'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit like FEMA'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abolish the whole damned lot and let the States sort it out, they can do a far better job and for considerably less money'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Not sure if any of you have seen this pretty funny take on Texas secession. Enjoy... http://wonkette.com/408043/texas-secession-movement-gaining-momentum-with-the-rest-of-america'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i think Texas should'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Did you watch that clip, Tigernuts? It's pretty clever.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the maker of the video is clearly an idiot'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it is funny'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Texas isn't on the verge of bankruptcy, unlike California'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it has considerable natural resources, when Obama isn't shutting them down because Al Gore said polar bears can't swim'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The rubber situation is critical.  In spite of the recent rubber drive, there is a continuing need for large quantities of scrap rubber.  We are collecting every possible pound from the factories, arsenals and shipyards, we are speeding up the flow of material from automobile graveyards, we are tearing up abandoned railroad tracks and bridges, but unless we dig out an additional 6,000,000 tons of steel and great quantities of rubber, copper, brass, zinc and tin, our boys may not get all the fighting weapons they need in time...  EVEN ONE OLD SHOVEL WILL HELP MAKE 4 HAND GRENADES!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a notice during WWII, :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, it was pretty bad back then.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'one could almost compare it to mainland China.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, it was World War II. Kind of a big deal, globally ;)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the ration stamps and coins.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I know, but the romantic image that America still had it good persists.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I bet ol Romney would have had 5x the normal ration stamps as regular people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, he wouldn't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Not sure it was simply an image. It was total war. One of the few times that virtually the entire nation was on exactly the same page.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in his position, back then image was everything.  He would have kept up appearances even though he may have been spending his last dime.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'my grandpa was still able to make his moonshine during the wars though, he just had to grow the corn himself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The OPA established the Idle Tire Purchase Plan, and could deny mileage rations to anyone owning passenger tires not in use.   Voluntary gas rationing proved ineffective and by the spring of 1942 mandatory rationing was needed.  To get your classification and ration stamps, you had to certify to a local board that you needed gas and owned no more than five tires.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Members of congress and other political VIPs in their own mind of course were given an 'X' sticker for their vehicles....it allowed unlimited gasoline use'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'real people don't have to make sacrifices. I learned that from Animal Farm. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Ya know.. If we didn't brag & let the japs know North America has "Sugarless Gum" We wouldn't have any japanese people in the country & we'd be rid of that Godzilla problem a long time ago... That lizard only wants tokyo anyway...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dow Jones didn't take kindly to the Obama victory, down what, 320 points?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was good for gold though, eeeeee!'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're Obama, you have a $16tn national debt and a yearly deficit of $1tn. How do you fix it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'QE'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd fix it by devaluing the dollar by 50%?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '..or go to Vegas after Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The QE collapses the middle class, thus making everyone government dependent = Obama win'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesnt fix it though, does it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It does if you're Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i asked how you'd fix it, not how Obama intends to wreck it further'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'string em up'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'you remind me of Donald Trump'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The government no longer represents the people; they must be done away with'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a morally bankrupt shit show'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: '"no longer"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'At some point, it was for the people by the people; that point is ancient history'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now it's for the corporations by the corporations'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'sadly yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the spirit of amazing things, i discovered something I agree with George Soros about'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the modification of the three-strikes law in California to only count serious or violent crimes for the third strike. personally i'd do away with it altogether, it's an anathema to the concept of justice'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cosmogoblin: 'Seems a bit stupid.  Judges already take into account a person's record, the three-strikes rule seems dumb.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Why shouldn't the legislature get to define a person as a habitual offender for sentencing purposes? It doesn't incidate guilt, and has nothing to do with the conviction'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'because that's "judging"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'whats the problem with that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'ask the F-types'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not up to the legislature to judge'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the job of the judiciary'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'the legislature shouldn't define crimes and set sentences? YOu want Judges making up the laws and creating the punishments for them?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that is their job'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It's the legislatures job to define and reflect the public good'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so what's your position on career UI drivers?  Seems like judges aren't dealing with them as well as they should be, if they were really taking priors into consideration.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and then you have judges that give probation to the kiddie-diddlers.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Most jurisdictions are pretty harsh on repeat dwi offenders from what I've seen Hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither branch is supposed to have all the power when it comes to justice'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and always remember that the judicial process can strike down an unjust law'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and the executive branch can just not enforce them, and the legislature can filibuster, amend, or otherwise diddle around with them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'The legislature often gives Judges a small range in which they can sentence someone given the nature of the offense, any priors, and any aggravating or mitigating factors. Then the Judge may suspend the sentence pending completion of certain conditions, but only in the relatively minor offenses is that allowed. For serious felonies, time in prison is often required'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or the jury can nullify in cases where the law is unjust, or has been unfairly applied'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro is agreeing with that Tigernuts person again...
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dates back to the earliest days of "trial by a jury of peers"'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the origins of the legal system and common law'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of which they try to hide these days'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'But yeah, I have no problem with the legislature defining punishments for crimes. Makes sense, when you consider how far we've come from the common law, and how many crimes are statutory now'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3 strikes isn't defining punishment for crimes'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It creates a status into which a person falls, and determines their punishment...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's arbitrary and explains why you have the highest prison population per capita of any country on the PLANET and by some margin'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and I believe that a jury must find someone beyond a reasonable doubt to be a repeat offender'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'your "peers" are too stupid to do their job'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jury isn't told of previous convictions here'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Yeah, it might be arbitrary. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't exist'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it shouldn't, you should be judged on the case in hand, not some arbitrary count'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Not when convicting of the crime in question Tigernuts. But after that, they may be called again to take part in sentencing, and find the person as a repeat offender'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the reason we have the highest prison population is because of drug laws.  It's not because we have so many career felons.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I think drug dealers are criminals through and through, and would still be criminals if we legalized all drugs'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tipro, the drugs come from the top anyways'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's all by design'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dosset is right, thought your point is nonsense, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're actually talking about doing away with all the possession ones, which by their estimates would cut our prison populations by something amazing, like 50%.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can call them "morally repugnant" or similar'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'That might be good. For simple possession at least'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'criminal, however, has special meaning and cannot be applied to something which is an opinion'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It costs like $35k a year to keep someone in prison doesn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I'm saying they are people who don't respect the law and would find ways to live outside the normal system no matter what we did with drugs Tigernuts. Drug lords aren't in it b/c they love drugs and are hping to give people liberty to do drugs. They don't want normal lives, don't know how to function with normal, respectable jobs, and they find power by selling drugs'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is still your opinion, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Colorado just passed a state law that says possession of limited amounts is fully legal.  You can buy non-medical pot in a store, you can smoke it openly (subject to anti-smoking laws), and you can grow it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could make the same case for people who want to be politicians'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or who want to be TSA officers, or be in the army'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It has some basis in personal experience Tigernuts, but yeah it's an opinion'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or people who live off welfare'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tipro, intelligence like CIA start the trafficking, which gets passed to organized crime, and on down to the streetcorner pusher'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not saying you're wrong to have that point of view'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'fast and furious with drugs, DosseT?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not even; F&F was a one-time false-flag'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'merely that you should be careful not to brand things illegal just because you don't agree with them'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not much different to speech'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'F&F is like a 20-year-old program.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'F&F is just like Operation Northwoods, Operation Himmler...just classic false-flag tactics'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The Nazis dressed up like the Polish and attacked Germans to get backing for WWII'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '= Operation Himmler'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'F&F the same thing; arm Mexicans to get Americans to back gun control'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'that's true. I would support legalized prostitution, but I wouldn't go to a prostitute. I'm just saying in reference to prison populations, legalizing drugs may not be the answer. People don't go to prison for simple possession, and those that go for dealing may not get caught as easy doing whatever other criminal designs they are involved in, but they will likely still be involved in crime. Usually organized B&E groups'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh but they do go to prison for simple possession'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and also, you decriminalise, you take a ton of money out of it, so people aren't stealing to feed habits so much'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'If you're "simple possession" is enough to get you in for trafficking maybe...'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you lose a lot of th e gang element'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'your*'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm sure the cartels will just roll over for that one.  They don't like it when you steal/destroy their product, it's not going to be any better when you fuck with their money.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'that's a good point about the low-level people stealing to feed habits tiger'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'very true'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats what drives burglaries here, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's Fed vs. state; the state police don't realize that they are set up for failure at the federal level'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is why even heads of police here have called for decriminalisation'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A movie with this idea is coming out soon'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'where's here? California?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you might not see them steamrolling over the legit businesses, but they might move into B&E to remove all that excess legit crop from the users--pretty much guaranteeing they'll come back to the cartel stock.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'b&e?'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I can see legalizing pot being okay, but I'm not sure making hard drugs that available is a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'breaking and entering'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'home invasion you might call it'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were me i'd legalise and tax pot, just decriminalise the possession of the harder stuff so at least you could help those people rather than just persecute them'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that pot is illegal and alcohol isn't is an absurdity and abomination that has no place in modern society'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'world helium reserves are projected to run out in 8 years.  And helium is used in many things like flat screen tvs, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'omg what will I do to make funny voices?????'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Syncrude refinery in the Alberta oil sands is huge.....investing $10 billion in the refinery to convert those oil sands into 1-2 million barrels per day of oil in addition to the 300k barrels they produce now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the current value of the oil sands is $70 trillion with current technology to extract the oil from the field.'
T3/r7/2012-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Shell oil is also investing billions into building a mega refinery at the tar sands to extract 1 million barrels per day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psyiode: 'whatever!'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'gamestat 12'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'tigernuts' car - http://i.imgur.com/XmVeN.jpg'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHich 2012 senate race had two incumbents racing against each otehr due to a change in whatever it's called, demographic?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nvm, found it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hakuna Sakata: 'If you think women are the weaker sex, try pulling the blankets back to your side. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I love how badly Akin got ousted this election'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'womenfolk made me proud out there'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'US/Canadian oil needs to go back to $100 a barrel.....considering north sea oil is selling for $110.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Or the US needs to reduce our imports from africa and the middle east when the contracts expire.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'yeup'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'California actually voted no on having a label for GMO foods. How fucking retarded is California?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What do you expect from a farming state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If california keeps going the way it has been, we might have to turn the whole state into a prison state, and free up our prison populations. :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, natgas is going up in price....currently $3.60'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'need to get it back to $5.00 or so, so we can start producing some of that dry gas again.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like tales of widespread fraud are coming out of the elections, not necessarily affecting the outcome of the presidential race, but of many of the propositions being voted on at the same time'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iranian jets fire on US drone in Persian Gulf. Rock on, Iran, shame you missed'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Holder looks set to quit as Attorney General (quit? he should have been fired, or prosecuted)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Should be prosecuted, it seems.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Satan's friend with benefits Janet Nepolitano is being touted for Supreme Court Judge spot. I'm sure she'll do wonders for civil liberties'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'NDAA-squared!'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't obama hire some people that aren't corrupt and aren't freaks?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'between them two and Hilary Clinton, gah'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jimmy Carter's like 91, but at least he's not a complete arse'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Santa Claus won the US election, someone said.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he did'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'and so did jesus'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'special sort of santa claus though, he robs your neighbour to give you gifts'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'santa won the election...he's gonna give me a PHONE! for christmas'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well he isn't going to give me a graphics card with the wrong output on it, the muther'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'no jesus did because now all these people just bloody whine'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's giving me a car, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wait, wrong channel'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which makes me think that for the next generation, it won't be possible to elect someone who offers (necessary) gov't reductions or changes'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm interested to see if he starts running roughshod over state laws and starts sending the DEA into Colorado and Washington'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'll be the teller'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you can't do it in 2008, 2010, 2012, you probably can't do it when the boomers retire, which is going to eat up the next 15ys, at least'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, right.  Most of the world wants to legally own, smoke, and peddle pot.  He's not going to fuck with that part of his liberal base.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I didn't mean Obama specifically, although the total deficit during his first term looks like 17t or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ron Paul is reported as saying that "America is lost", people are wondering hoe Obama will deal with the fiscal cliff - too late, you drove over it already'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has been already in places like California where medical pot is allowed'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '$17,000,000,000,000?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e sending int he DEA over the heads of State and arresting people'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at DosseT.
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Well, get to work, debt slaves'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'oh wait'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both candidates lacked a credible plan for dealing with the debt'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'At least Obama had a good plan for complaining about Romney's plan, that is something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, you can't fault that'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and now Obama's the poor shmuck who has to deal with it.  This might actually turn out well for the Republicans, if they start reaching across the aisle.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like the Labour party here "Don't vote for them, their plan sucks!". 'Well what are your plans then?" "Our plan is to not do what they're doing" '.........''
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It works when the political arena becomes football arena fanaticism'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Both parties have to do some compromising.  The next 4 years can be good, but there needs to be a bit more cooperation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'tiger your name isn't susan is it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Next 4 years good for whom is the question'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The 17t was based on CBO GAAP estimates (I know they aren't entirely reliable, but they represent a reasonable starting point) - not normal kittens and unicorns federal cash flow wannabe accounts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, vorpes'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'ok just curious'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'It can be good for the country as a whole'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i haven't grown breasts the last time i looked'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nah, the deficit stuff's too big now.  They won't be able to kick it down the road this time without seriously fucking over a big group of people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'maybe for the gimmedats, but not for the average working-class citizen'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can, hans, and they probably will'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did in europe, and they did here'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'I'm an average working class government contractor, I'll be fine.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'End the Bush era tax cuts, raise social security age from 67 to 70, raise the cap limit on social security pay-in and we'll be fine in that area.  Medicare, I don't have the answer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's the whole plan; make everyone government dependent'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Medicare costs need to come down, but not in a sudden manner.  It needs to be done over a bit of time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ending the bush tax cuts won't plug the hole'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Not the entire whole, but in combination with raising SS age and income caps it makes a huge dent.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'One good thing would be to plug some of the tax code loopholes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can finger-in-the-dam it, but I don't plan on getting my SS'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'I mean for god sakes what country goes to war and lowers taxes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What country goes to war, then does QEs'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ending the bush tax cuts, dropping the tax breaks and loopholes, and pulling troops out of the middle east to cut military by $1tn will probably do it'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Can't do it without amending SS.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'You cant do drastic military cuts in a short amount of time though'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just pulling them home will save a fortune, flach'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Quick and drastic cuts to the military would affect so many things in a negative way, it would basically be suicide.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if you pay them for 4 years to sit on base'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and where are all those soldiers going to go for work?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Actually, bringing the military home doesn't save us anything.  That money's all been borrowed anyways.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'coal, oil, and gas industry'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'So it's not like that money can be spent elsewhere.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that logic is upside down, mea'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Honestly, first step is to tackle SS and those tax cuts.  Start there'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'we need aids for old people'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'i mean aid'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Tax loopholes is a huge thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i for one am eternally grateful to my previous generation for totally fucking up the economy so that i'll never be able to retire while they're all doing so at 55 and 60'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'That's the biggest problem Vorpes.  Baby boomers will destroy it long before the Republicans claims of lazy-ass Americans will.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm also eternally grateful to them for fucking up the real-estate market such that my generation and those that follow me could never ever in our lifetimes afford a decent house to live in'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'baby boomers should all be exterminated. problem solved'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You mean rent a house from the government'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's all that's left, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'no more "ownership"'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'baby boomers coupled with more and more tax cuts definitely didn't help support SS'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'there are more people now who pay into SS but they pay less because of all the tax cuts. it isn't like the baby boomers just stopped having kids they were still at or above replacement rate'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just kick the can down the road long enough for me to buy a plot of land, would you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just stop spending and save up.  As we obviously proved in Montgomery, if enough people leave the system the product will readjust to bring us back in.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'save what up, exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'money.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The problem with SS isn't so much with allocation; it's with the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the money that isn't around and is devaluing as fast as it can be saved?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If everyone were a productive member of society, it would distribute the cost over a wider breadth'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Instead, we have a welfare culture which not only lowers taxable income, but also creates unnecessary income transfers'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all i can do is save up and hope that there's a house price crash before a currency crash'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but chances are we'll get the latter, not the former'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments are inflating away the value of their debts, which directly devalues savings'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, housing is a lot more affordable in the US now than it was over the previous 20 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'house prices will therefore go up with the inflation'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'abolishing welfare because some people aren't productive is like draining your engine oil and expecting your car to be "productive"'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'decent housing here is insane'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you live on an island'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an overpopulated island, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then supply/demand dictates housing to be expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feel free to drop some bioweapons here and clear it down a tad'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's not gubment's fault'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it is, they control immigration policy'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, as if it's all immigrants'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not abolish welfare; abolish the welfare culture'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'i.e. bottomfeeding'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'because I can'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all immigrants and increased life expectancy, our birthrate has only just recently got back up to 1.9'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without the other two factors our population would have been dropping'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'I think it's more of a me, me problem, Dosset than a true welfare problem.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'From whose perspective?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'All perspectives.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'For me, I'm not planning on getting my SS back...ever'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'average uk salaray, £26,244 - average house price £234,000 (2011 figures)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and I think that a lot that qualify know they can't retire, what with 401k/IRA dead, and SS dying'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'All you hear is how we are so overtaxed and that "other" people are gaming the system.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's a little disconcerting when they are taking the opposite steps necessary to fixing the problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'No politician wants to stand up and say that we must rescind those tax cuts to get the US back on track because of the "me, mine" mentality.  Don't take "my" money.  Even if it is the best thing to do.  Could you imagine our granparents saying NO to tax increases and rationing during WWII?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There was more solidarity back then'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and the 30s when SS was created'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'EXACTLY!'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Since when did paying taxes become "Un-American"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I think a lot of it comes from people's ignorance that the gummint ostensibly has no money'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and must shave off part of their earnings to in turn furnish public services for them'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '...but then the people got disillusioned'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So it's not that they're against paying taxes on principle, but reject what it is their dollars are paying for (i.e. nails and haircuts to Section 8)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'That comes from this information age and people like Limbaugh that see ONE government worker slacking and it's blown to the extreme.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Shit, I'm called a parasite on society because I teach?  That's what it's come to.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'And yes, I have been called that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Well, you can blame pop culture for that more than Limbaugh'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'But he feeds that.  You ever listened to his program?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not recently'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'It's a 3-hour rant against anything government.  Riling up the masses.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And then there's "government" and then "government"'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not all public servants, so-to-speak are gummint'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'That is true.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'But in some people's minds, if your paycheck comes from tax dollars, you are wasting their money.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'teachers are instigating the pro-liberal (and recently, the pro-Obama) biases the republicans are complaining about.  Certainly not every teacher is lapping on the black Jesus's nuts, but enough of them are that it's corrupting the role teachers have been charged with.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Really Hanslanda?  So I lap his nuts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I think a lot of it is a recent trend'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'g-jobs and public sector is less about serving the public, and more about oh cool, job security/I can be lazy/etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, if you really want to put yourself in that group of teachers instead of the other one...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's those that soiled the waters'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'culpable: yes, you'd be amazed at how much propaganda elementary school kids come home with'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'It's more that Republicans have driven any union based job to the Democratic Party.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'until you invent robot teachers, teachers are going to be human beings.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some cases have had the teachers outright preaching falsehoods about Obama, and at least one teacher threatened to send the student to the principal's office for being the Romney/Republican/conservative side of that debate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Ah yes.  I see that all the time Hanslanda.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ultimately, you can be someone that imparts knowledge, education, and values, or you can be a projector for Big Brother'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'likely depends on what level you're teaching, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'That's exactly what I'm talking about.  You talk about cases, so you're talking an extremely small minority.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, I know.  I have teachers in my life too and they complain about that a lot.  Plenty of non-teachers complain about similar things in their industries as well, so I figure it's a widely-pervasive trend rather than just teachers.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'I agree on that point Hanslanda.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'People now-a-days see one instance of something and take it as normal.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'or as wide-spread and common.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Is that "one thing" the TV?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Well, actually the I would blame Internet more.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, it's many different "one things" as we get together and talk about them all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'You can now see that one instance "world-wide" in a matter of seconds.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'd argue the internet is the last bastion of free speech'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and filth'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'hand-in-hand, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada smiles happily.
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Yeah, now any nutjob with a computer can put whatever he wants out there.  Not sure I'd call that progress.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'As opposed to one nutjub putting whatever he wants on Establishment TV?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sounds like an extreme dichotomy'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'still, I'd prefer the former'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'I mean go on youtube right now and type in teacher and see how many different extremely negative videos you see.  Teacher-student romance'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It might all sort of work out if school didn't so effectively kill the will to learn, think, research.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'teacher slaps student, teacher calls student n word...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's just an overall degradation of society'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'watch the video of the lady attacking the bus driver'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'after which she promplty gets Tekkened'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Try instilling the will to learn in some students Tinada and watch how fast their parents are in your face telling you to "help" their kid.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'promptly too'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'Many parents are very good, but there are more than a few today that expect their students to "ace" everything with no work.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at Mea Culpable.
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'My point was more..children are naturally inquisitive, want to learn and figure out things'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sad byproduct of an overly-feeling liberal society'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I should get a raise because I showed up to work'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in some leagues, there are no winners and you don't play for points.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You put send that kind of being into school at age 6, about 4ys later they are down to neutral, another 4ys and they almost actively avoid thinking/reading/learning'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that's the point, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's hard not to believe that the system is fundamentally flawed (or, if it is working as intended, it's set up by pretty evil people)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It was created that way'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'by the Rockefellers'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'I'm very fortunate to teach in a small, rural school setting where I rarely have to deal with any of those major issues.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'The tough students that we get surprisingly enough live in the "low-income" apartments in town.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It isn't made any easier by the fact that the important things (qualitative judgements, independent thinking ability, self-insight etc) are so difficult to measure that schools hardly ever try, and instead use standardized tests which largely require you to solve simple closed-form problems of preset types'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are they still just advancing students?  n'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'And who forces the standardized tests on the schools?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Tinada: http://www.inquisitr.com/211355/nyc-tests-dinosaurs-aliens-birthdays-banned/'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Degradation in progress'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'It's against the law in MN to hold students back without parent consent, Hanslanda.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'go NYC'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: 'OK.  Out to head to my kids conferences.  Maybe talk to you guys again later...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Next, the aptitude tests will be like those from Idiocracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'barcodes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you have one bucket that contains 2 gallons and another bucket that contains 7 gallons, how many buckets do you have?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I feel sorry for people who bought land in Texas without the mineral rights......they were stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the mineral rights owner can come on your land and drill for oil and gas, or other minerals if they wish to.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Your $300k house and land can turn into $78k value after a well site has been drilled.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Always buy the damn mineral rights when you buy the land.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'really, they can just come in and put a well right next to my house?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure can'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'anywhere in the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if they have a lease for the mineral rights.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They can even have your house torn down if it is in the way, or move it to another part of the property.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if you own the mineral rights, there are ways for companies to seize them without payment'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, that is not true.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in some states, if they have acquired legitimately enough of the surrounding rights'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they have to pay fair market value of all minerals extracted from a piece of land if you own the rights to it.  They usually pay around 15% for the lease.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not in all states'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no company 'steals' minerals from people who own the rights, unless you give them to them at a low price.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'name a state :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might take some time to dig up...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hang on...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in Texas, the mineral rights holder has all the rights.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska also.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'here's one article... http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/02/us-chesapeake-landgrab-substory-idUSBRE8910E920121002'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that one's texas'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'some people sold their mineral lease to companies for like 5%, they got a lowballed offer.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'others sold their lease to companies and made millions on the lease, plus 15%'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"This June, after petitioning a Texas state agency for an exception to a 93-year-old statute, the company effectively secured the ability to drain the gas from beneath the Bhandari property anyway - without having to pay the couple a penny."'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"In fact, since January 2005, the Texas agency has rejected just five of Chesapeake's 1,628 requests for such exceptions, a Reuters review of agency data shows."'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so much for laws!'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no company steals the rights, eh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, you are not allowed to not sell your rights, and with horizontal drilling, they do not actually need to go on your land if your property is small enough'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '""The principle of it is insane," said Calvin Tillman, a former mayor of Dish, Texas, a small town north of Fort Worth where drilling has been heavy. "Not only can they take your property, but they don't have to pay you for it.""'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chesepeake is well known for drilling under other peoples property.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but that isnt stealing someone's lease'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, "What emerged were approaches to leasing property that land brokers, land owners and lawyers say push ethical and legal limits. Chesapeake has unilaterally altered or backed out of leases. And in Texas and at least three other states, it has exploited little-known laws to force owners to hand over drilling rights and sometimes forfeit profits."'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They are basically sucking up your milkshake without your say.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'since they seized the drilling rights, they can actually drill on the property'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one way or the other, the laws need to be fixed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I should have gone to business school and got my mba back in the 90s, could have raped the companies like all modern ceo's do to make millions and billions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are tons of mbas out there. The ones who do the raping are those who have two critical qualities...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lack of a conscience, and the ability to form unsavoury connections'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chesepeakes ceo used 31 million of his shares as colateral to buy lots more shares, he was caught in a margin call...not smart....and lost all his shares in the call....so he had his handpicked board cancel his employment contract, and do another which granted him $75 million, plus another 35 million shares.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think I heard something about that...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, these people have handpicked people to do bad things for them'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'finding and coercing people to do your dirty work takes a lot more than an mba... in fact, an mba is almost irrelevant...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'getting the mba gets you in the special door to become a ceo of a big company, :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'find some heiress the father can't marry off because she's too ugly or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unless you build the company yourself, most people need an mba to become a ceo.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chesepeake is a decent company when dry gas is selling for high prices, but right now they are treading water....most of their leases are for dry gas, not wet gas.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the wikipedia article for mcclendon, ceo of chesapeake, doesn't even mention an mba...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'majored in history'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am just not a big fan of the ceo of chesapeake.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he created chesepeake'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'mmm cheesecake'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he was born with a lot of the right connections too, it seems'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a lot easier to "start" your own company if you're born into good connections...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he borrowed $1.1 billion against his shares and interests in over 1000 wells to invest directly into more wells that were not being drilled by chesapeake....seems like a conflict to me.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, a lot of these companies engage in activities which clearly ought to be illegal, but aren't'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he also mortgaged the mineral leases for a $5 billion loan to invest in more wells.....so landowners go to the bank to refinance their home loan and find their property has been lumped into the mortgage lease deal and they cannot get the refinance.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one has to wonder why this sort of behaviour is tolerated!'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(rhetorical question)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, this kind of stuff was rare, until the lawyers and accountants started becoming a lot more creative.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it takes the govt a long time to catch up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and the lobbyists?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'govt can catch up quickly, if there's enough will.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'haha, tell that to the US congress....:)'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's also the issue of attracting good talent to govt'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sometimes trying to save money on govt salaries is counterproductive...'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they get outsmarted by the lawyers on the other side'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chesapeke ceo has been borrowing against leases of landowners since 1993, it is not as though people didnt know about it....just no one cared until the gas price dropped to $2 and he couldnt cover the loans.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'probably not the only energy company to do it. Just the most obvious.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'luckily the dems won't be cutting regulation any further than it already has. Or so I hope.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'anyone know the name of that manual company that makes how to manuals for most vehicles?  Supposed to be the best ones out there for people who want to work on their own vehicles.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I know which one you're talking about, but I can't remember the name either.  You could perhaps try looking it up on autozone.com or similar site, or even generic google search.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Mankind's emissions of fossil carbon and the resulting increase in temperature could prove to be our salvation from the next ice age. According to new research from the University of Gothenburg, Sweden, the current increase in the extent of peatland is having the opposite effect. "We are probably entering a new ice age right now. However, we're not noticing it due to the effects of carbon'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Looking back over the past three million years, the earth has experienced at least 30 periods of ice age, known as ice age pulses. The periods in between are called interglacials. The researchers believe that the Little Ice Age of the 16th to 18th centuries may have been halted as a result of human activity. '
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The industrial revolution saved the planet from a new ice age....wooohooo!'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'just another reason for cows to be considered holy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just before we eat them, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A study conducted by scientists at the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew (UK), in collaboration with scientists in Ethiopia, reports that climate change alone could lead to the extinction of wild Arabica coffee (Coffea arabica) well before the end of this century.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think scientists play a dangerous game when they start making predictions'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'because when they're wrong, the common perception is they dont' know what they're talking about, and they then start undermining themselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'one of the reasons they've stopped making hurricane predictions, if I recall correctly'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A long-abandoned fermentation process once used to turn starch into explosives can be used to produce renewable diesel fuel to replace the fossil fuels now used in transportation, University of California, Berkeley, scientists have discovered. Campus chemists and chemical engineers teamed up to produce diesel fuel from the products of a bacterial fermentation discovered nearly 100 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We have the science to solve all the world's energy problems; it's just bad for profit margins'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'QED debators :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone on here ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, less than a week after the election and we already have signals that Obama is going to go after the 2nd ammendment, going to crucify the fossil fuel energy industry, and further infringe upon human rights with his TSA goon squard'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Am I alone in thinking it suspicious that Iran's attack on our drone wasn't made public until AFTER the election?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro wipes his brow with obvious relief.
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was a pretty classic case of electioneering'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'even Fox News hasn't said anything about that, so I wasn't sure'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as was the massive voting fraud in 7 states'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'particularly in ohio, florida, california and tennessee'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you guys really -really- really really really need to start insisting on a paper-only ballot and not declaring winners until they're all counted'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise you're setting yourself up for a kicking'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Florida, 2000 - paper votes have their issues...'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody is denying that, ped'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but declaring the results before all the votes are counted, and relying solely on machines that have been proven to have obvious flaws, and are not tamperproof isn't a solution'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perfect world is to have voting machines that print out a receipt that the VOTER can check immediately, and that can then be counted to verify the tally'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In Norway, each district has votes counted by more or less random representatives from all (significant) political parties'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'votes are counted manually here too, and counted twice'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'if an election can be rigged receipts aren't gonna help'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which makes it rather hard to cheat'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then give up, Hellion, because all elections will be rigged'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're talking about minimising the scale and opportunity of fraud'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'no giving up just apathy and stop thinking u have control live ur life politics affects ur egenral satisfaction little to none'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know how to respond to that'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yeah, look at this clear case of fraud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpGd74DrBM&feature=youtu.be'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'well its an opinion just say ur wrong hellion lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'and ill say fair enuff lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's a worry statement, Hellion, it speaks of disillusionment, i know, but still'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'well uh that's like your opinion man'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were to say you can't affect it, that's one thing, but to say it doesn't affect you? that's.... absurd'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'laws don't apply to you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your environment, the society around you doesn't interact with you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'I repeat the quote from big lebowski " well uh that's like your opinion man" politics affect your overall satisfaction of life little to none'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess the big lebowski must live in a different world to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'the big lebowski is a movie and the quote was him saying that's ur opinion'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'satisfaction in life has more to do with self the surroundings of the person'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who was the character giving the quote and what were his circumstances?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to a point, I agree'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'well I'm not trying to convince u ... I'm just expressing myself I've been rich I've been poor, I've been oppressed and I've been the oppressor each time I had a choice '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe that's the difference'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'and my overall satisfaction was about appreciating my situation or appreciating I have the power to change my environment at any time'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people don't get to choose if they're opressed or not'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or whether they're poor or not'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'that's again your opinion'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably a bit stronger than merely opinion'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's true for most people'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'the rich republican Christians of America feel oppressed by the changing America before them ... are they ? no its how they feel lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'unfortunately we are oppressed by our love of materials we r the oppressors and the oppressed'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it becomes less and less true, the smaller the world becomes and the tighter control governmnet has on people and their lives'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'on a funny note I alost said opressiez'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'control is relative some might think control is tellin u , u have to pay taxes others would think its fueling wars and hurting our well being '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'many factors of what is control but when a person realizes u are only in control when you renounce the control of others above you and live free do what's best for you and your loved ones but don't try torebel just cause'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'that kind of teenage angst never accomplished any increased happiness'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can renounce the control others have on you all you like, doesn't stop someone else coming and locking you away for it'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'sure it does '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyhew, time for foooood'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'the only real control is the ability to take away life all the rest is relative'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty silly position to hold'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'Ty for ur opinion again lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just trying to add some pragmatism'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'and its always welcome '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'I love to discuss but in the end the goal is satisfaction and as we get older we realize its not a destination, is the journey'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just so that you know, if you ever visit Alaska, your US money will work there...no need to convert it to russian rubles anymore.....:p'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So evidently, even the director of the CIA couldn't keep an extramarital affair a secret.  Just resigned.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'the Mulder in me says that's what they made public there was much bigger stuff that would compromise the integrity of the CIA'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'like destabilizing Libya?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'He was befriended by the captured alien and decided to let him free?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, there's already people questioning the timing of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is a shame the drilling in north dakota is wasting so much natgas and propane because the infrastructure does not exist to get it to the customers yet.  Those wells could supply all of middle america with propane and natgas each day with what is flared 24 hours a day at the wells.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'propane is cheap here because of a huge glut of supply from the few sources that are providing the fuels.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'need to connect the sources to the big pipelines going around the country to open up the demand.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So Obama is going cockstrong on banning guns now huh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'article?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'or just debate talk? Presidential debate talk'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'call your state government, get them to nullify anything that comes your way'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'NC leg and executive are stock full of republicans. I don't feel concerned'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well Wisconsin is safe for the moment. We just legalized concealed carry not too long ago.'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'good for them'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-feinstein-looking-to-introduce-new-assault-weapons-ban'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.examiner.com/article/senator-feinstein-looking-to-introduce-new-assault-weapons-ban'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'balls'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'omg that's the absoute worst form of gun control'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/turn-them-over-feinstein-moves-to-ban-all-assault-rifles-high-capacity-magazines-and-pistol-grips_11072012'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'b/c even if guns are a problem, the AWB in 94-04 did NOTHING'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'The justice department did a study where they concluded that any affect it had on crime was "too small for measurement."'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's true'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'the columbine killings took place when the 10 round limit was in place, but instead of buying preban mags or alterating their post-ban mags, they just brought 13, ten round magazines'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'clearly the AWB was a huge success'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'hopefully the House will block that'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might not get a chance if he starts throwing executive orders around'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Get your CCW and stock up'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Id like to say thats illegal and perhaps unconstitutional, but does that matter anymore?'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It does when the Brownshirts (Xe) roll up'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not for Herr Oberfuhrer Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'And how will Republicans wage their war on women without guns...'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama might have been pallatable for patriots if he'd stuck by the constitution and states rights'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but he's burnt those bridges right at the start'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and made no pretense about what was happening'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be nefarious, because he could have done as much redistribution and socialising as he wanted, provided he stuck to those rules'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people might even have liked it'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now there have been thousands of job losses announced since his victory'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'and dont forget he illegally changed the law requiring gov't contractors to give notice of layoffs'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'so who knows what the number actually is'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he gives all the government small business contracts to fortune 500 companies'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'or Solyndra'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, green energy corporate welfare, to line Al Gore's pockets'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while shutting down coal power for no reason'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'forcing peoples' energy prices up'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Ron Paul is on Infowars.com right now'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'brb caring'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'any thinkers on here ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'Obama sux and only got elected bc of his skin color'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Altarboy: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '?'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxjKbEvHdrk'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, i'd love Mr Obama to explain away November's jobs figures....'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has Oregon always been a state of backwards people?'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder if States will have the balls to publish nullification on the UN gun ban that Obama is backing'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woohoo, dont forget to apply for your own govt cheese benefits!'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Feds: I want YOU to apply for food stamps!'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Go get your govt cheese!'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'guvmt cheese, guvmt cheese, gotta go get me some guvmt cheese.'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would a car not have any rims on its wheels/tyres?'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I'm watching Strategic Relocation by Joel Skousen right now. I think I'm gonna pick up the book too.'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'dont forget to read it once you have picked it up'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Har har, droll. So very droll.'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'isnt it drolle ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'and its about on par with "need a new recall this one is full"'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'No yours was funnier than that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But thanks:P'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '33% of americans say they have a bugout bag.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'those mre insta heats are pretty cool.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'no u'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): A winner is Leinei!
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Thou shalt not steal. However, stealing is OK if it is called "democracy," "majority rule," or "social justice."'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'shouldn't you be working?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on a sunday?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'oh, right'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'don't want to get stoned by your neighbors, eh ;)'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my neighbours are all pensioners'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they stone me, nobody will be left to pay their pensions'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Israel are beating more wardrums, firing at Syria'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thousands of job losses confirmed in the wake of Obama victory'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many other jobs will be cut below 30hrs a week'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'people i've talked to really think Black people vote for Obama only because he is black.. Ignorant in my opinion and quite offensive. Your thoughts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I really don't think you know enough black people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or possibly, you only know the wrong kind of black people.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'what im saying is they claim that all black people only vote for him because he is black'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'it just sounds bias '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not the only reason, but from what I hear it's the majority reason.  ie, he's black AND...'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'yea but thats liek saying i would vote for romney because im white'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'but people dont say that'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so they think white people have brains but black people are stupid?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I think it seems suspiciously like race when something like 98% of black voters for for the black candidate'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'black voters vote* for...'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'But that's not a very scientific approach. And there may be nothing wrong with voting based on race. Race is real, and it's not going away'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i think obama is on the right track. it just takes more than 4 years to accomplish'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: '350 million people in the US. Shit cant be fixed over night'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'well that's a different discussion'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'yea im drinking, so im switching topics '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, black people just think more in terms of racism.  If they aren't going negative against someone (usually whites), they're lauding the blacks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'clinton would have been re-elected in 2000 if he were allowed to run. true or false?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'true if it aint broke ont fix it'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'dont*'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'yup. the only president to do something supposidely wrong and get away with uit'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I'm not black, but I can't really blame them for paying attention to race, and being sensitive towards the only black candidate'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'his perosnal life had nothing to do with his job'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'ill bet if hilary runs in 2016 she would get elected'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'clinton as the first gentleman'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't they get divorced?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i dont think so'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'it's for show if they are still married'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'no they'e still together. I think Rand Paul should win in 2016'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'he's a lot better than his dad. Less of an idealogue'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Rand Paul is a sellout'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'b/c he's not his dad? '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's just another GOP flunky'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'political gain.  If she did get elected, it'd look bad if she were single, worse if she were unmarried but dating, and worst if she brought in Bill.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Both of the Paul clan are fools'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'why do you say that tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts THWAPS Flach for being a moron.
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'if we merged republican and Democrat togheter we would have a stable gov't'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'John shithead says he is willing to work together  now'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's sold out to the establishment, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no future in party politics'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you mean like we have now?  Or are you saying to eliminate majorities in both houses?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I don't think he was every trying to be a libertarian like his Dad. It seems to me he is working hard on reducing deficits, he took a hard approach to the NDA, wants to reduce foreign spending'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, we can watch his record and see what he does'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i belive in a system where the gov't establishes basic law and then passes everything to the states. In other words, the gov't would collect taxes from the state only and madate specifc things but leave it up to the states to build off of that if they choose'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tasty Tipro nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you don't support either party, Rampagne'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so the individual would only get taxed by the state'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'In an ideal world, that would be great'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'well that was the fucking point of establishing this country'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, it's over now'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'America as was is done'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'basically the federal gov't provides a postal service, central banking, social security and a military'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'then the states do the rest'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'states will soon no longer exist as politically relevent entities'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'health care should be mostly private industry and then some gov.'t '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'plus, with Rand Paul, he's preferable to just about every other Republican. Allan West had potential, but looks like he's losing his seat'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the bright side, people are going to get the tyranny they voted for'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'the old GOP needs to go though'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will never win the votes of the welfare and immigrant masses, give it up, it's a lost cause'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'More seniors voted for Romney than Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i think they need to make it so that if you have a major surgery and it costs an extrodinary amount, your credit not be hurt as long as you are mkaing some sort of payment that is allowign you to live your life'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seniors will die'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'new one's will take their place'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'and save moeny too.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't be romney supporters'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they'd die quicker if we could send them to the camps.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'turkeys don't vote for xmas'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'ur credit is unaffected by not paying medical bills'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'since when?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'thats not correct'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'ya it is research it '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i know student loan debt isn't as logn as you are making payments'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not paying your overdue library dues affects your credit.  Hell, even checking your credit score affects your credit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'I have,and you are wrong.  It is given less importance by many, but it does affect it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so if you have a 200k student loan ebt, it's not taken into consideration if you buy a house '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'research it dont argue lol i know what im talking about it will never affect your ability to buy a house or a car'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i dont think employers should be allowed to look at credit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'certain crimes should be forgiven as well. lot of people that clean their life up still cant get jobs because of their criminal record'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'They should be able to if you are entering a position where you have access to money'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't want to be in a low paid job in USA right now, facing either redundancy or a huge tax hike'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'entitlement shit needs to go away. fuck the lazy people'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Yeah, fuck safety nets.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'They look hard into my credit background, but thats only because I have to maintain a security clearance'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'the rich ones are who feel entitled'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sellers should not be allowed to look at your credit either.  Should have to do the checking yourself and distribute copies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'some women in line were voting and saudf obama needs to win so they can sit at home and get that welfare check'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'Oh, some women in line? Guess the whole Obama camps is just a bunch of lazy pricks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'are you as contractor or govy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shouldn't stop welfare checks, but should neuter those who collect em'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'I am a government contractor, working as a civvie for the military'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i work for the gov as a govy'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i only have a public trust though'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mea Culpable: '91% of all entitlement money goes to disabled or those over 65, so you really aren't eliminating much waste when you take out welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'I have a secret clearance with a completed SSBI, so basically TS'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'you can only be on welfare for 2 months and after that.. fuck em'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks' like O is goving after the internet, guns, and carbon taxes first though'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so you had to take the poly?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i couldnt pass those. i'd be too nervous. i knew someone who said the person giving it is a prick'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'No, dont have an actual TS that requires it'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'The SSBI is the roughest part of getting TS though'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'and i would ask folloow up questions and end up pissing them off'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'I dont really care about a poly, I have nothing to hide.  But my job only requires a secret with SSBI, so thats all I get for now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '12-11-12 tomorrow'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'tigernuts, are there a lot of people in the UK who take advantage of the gov't?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's epidemic here because of the breakdown of the housing market and low end wages'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'what is a racist term for poor white trash in the UK?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there isn't one'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'wanker? nounce?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'gotcha'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'redneck'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our media doesn't make a big issue of race unlike msnbc'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'US media sucks.. freedom of the press is too loose]'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'the media loves to ruin peoples lives'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't mind freedom of the press, just need to remember most of yours is owned by democrat interests'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aside from fox'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(which is owned by republican interests'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I don't think there's an inherent problem with biased media, so long as you read all the different news sources and become more informed. Yes, that includes Fox'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i would knock a news anchor's teeth donw their throat if they put a camera in my face and statted asking questions'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's pretty funny what happened with the terms redneck and nigger.  Redneck used to be a proud title that meant you were a hardworking and motivated person, but now it makes fun of one's intellect.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't, i'd answer him'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i would say i felt threateneed'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'but then again.. it woulld just be capturedon someones cell phone and then everyone will tyihnk im a dick'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, you don't want to be caught on obamaphone decking a news reporter'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'obama is not a communist'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'true. Communists believe in power of the people. Obama believes in power of the Presidency'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'fox news says "fair and balanced" bull shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'and rush limbaugh is a fat piece of shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'And Chris Matthews is a saint!'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama is as close to a communist as you'll get outside china'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's a collectivist, and a centralist'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'control should never be given to one group or person'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too late for that now, what with all the armed federal cops and groups permeating the country'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the chief problem with biased media is that they report on the wrong things'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'never seen em'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Given the options that we had for the election, Obama was the best we could do.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'the media loves celebrities which i think is pathitc'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go to your local airport, bus station or train station'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'well yea.. FAA regulations. that's been that wasy forever'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that their reporting is biased is easier to adjust for, but if 95% of "news" is worthless nonsense, you need a higher level strategy'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it hasnt''
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'the FAA have always been in airports since i was a kid'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the TSA were formed in 2001'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'not FAA, but the TSA'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they started heading outside airports in 2010'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'who the fuck ran the scanners before 2001'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also no real evidence that Obama is less bad than Romney, or indeed significantly different on key issues other than a preference for who is to provide solutions'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'airport security of some sort, i'd guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and the important issues were mostly not part of either campaign'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Rampagne: Theres always been screeners, it just wasn't a unified group until 2001'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i rarely flew when i was a kid'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i guess i never noticed'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so who ran it? contract company?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'probably'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'or Airport employees'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i've carried razors on an airplane before.. they are not as thorough as you think'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i carried a blade on their as well.. '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'makes you feel safe, huh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Long ago I did the same, but I agree that it really isnt a good idea to allow it these dayhs'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Nope, but it makes you look stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'you could walk thjrough security to go meet people back in the day'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i remember i flew to gatwick once. taking that train to victoria station'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'wish i had a direct to heathrow'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'tigernuts, you ever go to white chapel in london?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'that area made me so uncomfortable'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm allergic to London'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i thought i was going to get stabbed'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are worse places'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dagenham'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'where?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like walking through downtown Kabul'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'are the bade areas mostly in the outter zones'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate all of London, but east london has a particularly bad reputation'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'my friend got drunk as shit and got off the wrong bus stop at 3 AM'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'three lads pulleda knife on him'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are you surprised?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'so he pulled out his cake and they cut slices for everyone and everyone got DIABETUS!!!! OMG SCARY'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'are there more group muggins than one on one?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haven't heard of any'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'are there gangs?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly foreigners'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'same here'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though not exclusively'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'the accent would make me feel more at ease if i got mugged'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'here i would be scared shitless'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best thing to do with muggers is break their face'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're invariably cowards or desperate'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Strategic relocation'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'try to get a hold of one of them, get their knife and stab him in the neck and start cutting until the knife comes out the jugular '
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'then the other two will fear you'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you do tend to get arrested in the Uk for defending yourself'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i'd be gone. the UK doesnt have access to the US fingerprints database'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'and they dont have a right to it'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop them'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the intelligence services do collude'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'yup. i know. i was kiding'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually to get around laws in each others countries regarding wiretapping and such'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'best thing to do is run i guess. i'd be so scared if i got mugged.'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the expectation in law is that you run or capitulate'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'i was told you have freedom of speech but you cant make statemetns about the royal family'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so what happens if you do that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have freedom of speech, you were misinformed'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so if i went into a crowed and said the prime minister is a faggot, would i go to jail?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'damn'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, probably not jail, but you're be arrested'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same is true if you tweeted it'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'so if i go on twitter as an american and shit talk about the prime minister do they have a right to warn me and tell me to stop?'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rascally Rampagne: 'very interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we had some guy arrested for being nasty to an olympic diver over twitter, another guy imprisoned for a slogan on a tshirt'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'numerous people inprisoned for "inciting riots" on facebook and blackberries'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and protests have to be pre-booked with the police'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh joy, my beloved dictat..err.government are interfering in Syria, silly bastards'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh dear, more claims coming out that US Border Patrols sold assault weapons to mexican drugs cartels'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'By the power of Donkey!  I have the power!'
T3/r7/2012-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'peppermint ice cream is surprisingly good.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'British banker divorces husband because wouldn't have kinky Shades of Grey S&M sex (seriously, it's because she read the book). Cites "unreasonable behaviour":'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm here '
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, the US is going to overtake Russia and Saudi Arabia as the top producer of oil soon.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US applied for 520,000 patents last year, China did 570,000, and Japan did 344,000.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'R&D increased by 9.7% in the US last year, and is expected to increase the same this year.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no wonder japan is floundering....they keep creating stupid things like a refridgerator that wont open unless you smile at it.  The winner of the tokya electronics conf top prize for 2011....'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Iraq is expected to be producing about 8.5 million barrels of oil per day by 2030....or about $200 billion per year in oil sales for their economy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps they could pay us back for helping them out....say $5 billion a year for 50 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'man in UK arrested for posting picture of a burning rememberence day poppy on social media'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'That's why they need a written constitution'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'but people shouldn't do stuff like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, so that governments can ignore it like America does?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Our speech is more protected than that'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would like to think so'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'the Court has been very careful imo on the 1st amendment'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have been subverting it using a series of dubious measures such as inappropriately applying medical arguments'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that's why USA is full of neo-nazis'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Vost is right. There is a National Socialist parade here in Charlotte this weekend'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Charlotte, NC'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was a similar march in my local city here, media made a big deal of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's before we get on to the election fraud and the unfolding libya/syria debacle'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'things are going baaaaad'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, yes, Obama only won because of election fraud. Blah blah, shut the fuck up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody even mentioned Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's you. You ALWAYS whine about Obama (or the Democrats).'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'election fraud works both ways, you realise'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's see... you whined about Socialists... and then segued into election fraud. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to piece together what you were implying.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No matter how big of a weasel you are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where did I say anything bad about socialists?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'same ole republics. rhetoric '
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'republican *'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When did you STOP claiming socialists are evil?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'citation please'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you think we're senile? Every single week you whine about socialists and communists (which you seem to think are the same thing, by the way).'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lest we start calling you Mr Hurricane'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now you're lying about what you yourself constantly talk (whine) about?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'odd, i'm not the one frothing at the mouth and chewing on their own shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'when caught just do what republicans do ... defer attention never accept faults '
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the talk was freedom of speech, some neo-nazi marches, voting fraud and the ongoing war in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, that's right, how silly of me, I forgot, you can't actually -talk- about anything of substance, all you can do is swear, shout and froth'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go chew on a shoe or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't know "National Socialists" were Neo-Nazi.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'there's ur citation'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But apparently they were.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'he said they were one and the same when he mentioned their parade in reference to neo Nazis'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So I'll actually recant this time. I saw "National Socialist" and assumed you were, as usual, whining about how bad Socialists were.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The National Socialist German Workers' Party (German: About this sound Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (help·info), abbreviated NSDAP), commonly known in English as the Nazi Party,'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'history clearly not a strong point, eh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, that's ANOTHER party. The UK National Socialist Movement is a British Neo-Nazi group that's INSPIRED by the German one. Not the same party, however, for obvious reasons.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who was talking about the UK National Socialist Movement? The were talking about a march in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'do you have anything useful to say, or are you babbling your crap again?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fine. the NSM in the US is the exact same thing, only in the US.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think he's on the "shit, i've been proven incorrect, let's grasp at some technicalities to save face"'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except he got caught out twice'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I got caught not knowing that you were referring to a Neo-Nazi movement isntead of just Socialists as a whole. Meanwhile, you just claimed you don't frequently complain about Socialists.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHich is basically the biggest lie told... this week (on this channel)... by you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i frequently complain about what political parties that were once socialist, tonight wasn't one of those times'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No... you often complain about socialists... and also equate them to communists...'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yes, tonight was, surprisingly, not one of those times. And I have already recanted my accusations. I was wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, socialism and communism are different points of the same scale'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I haven't spent enough time in Britain to know how credible a movement NS is there, but in the States, it barely qualifies as fringe, march or no march.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, but he equates them 100%. He claims a socialist is the same thing as a communist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do not'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I've never understood the real difference between socialism and communism. Socialism keeps in place the gov't structure in the end phase, communism doesn't?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, rhavage'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh? "Obama is a communist!" "Why?" "Because he wrote about how he has socialist principles!" "Those are socialist principles!" "They're the same thing!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's more a group of disenfranchised people arguing about the islamification of the country'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Basically two different "conversations" we've held at different points in time, paraphrased.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Explain the difference between socialism and communism. I've never understood it'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'communist, not socialist'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'collectivist, not socialist'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: '"islamification" lawl ignorance ftw that's where I got what wanted to see'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'that's just repeating words back to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same group are anti-immigration just generally'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't support them, though i support their right to protest'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Basically, you can't be a communist without being a socialist but you can be a socialist while not being a communist. The whole "collective ownership" thing is the cornerstone of socialism.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Communism is everything else that's related to communism.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone get arrested in the Charlotte march?'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'It hasn't happened yet. Unless you mean the DNC'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'I think a few people got arrested at that, but the protests weren't all that big'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'People don't get arrested for marching in protests as long as they're peaceful (and have permits).'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No matter what you seem to think, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shouldn't need a permit'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course you need a permit. You can't just rally thousands and march down the streets, disrupting traffic and everyday life and business willy nilly.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Should or not, those are the rules, and they've been in place for a hell of a long time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For one thing, there'd be no way for the police to guarantee everyone's safety.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police don't guarantee safety anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fine, it'd be impossible for the police to even BEGIN to try to keep people safe.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for closing streets, fine, grab a permit, but for an event held off streets there should be no requirement'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'They may not be able to guarantee safety, but they promote order. I'm with Yuna on this.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ANd it'd be the perfect time for people to just start a riot and loot and go on a crime spree while the police are scattered and have to try to contain the tide.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There's no absolutely no need for a permit (in MOST jurisdictions) if you just want to gather a group of friends or small group of people and hang out in a park of some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i bet the greeks protesting in Athens don't have a permit :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who knows? I have no insight into the Greek judicial system.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder how much longer it can hold together there'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did see that Texas's legislature has a bill going through at the moment outlawing invasive TSA patdowns'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be interesting to see what the administration's reaction to that and the pot laws in colorado and washington state'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be good indicators of the path the administration is going to take on the relationship between state and fed'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait... "Gundam" is a word banned for personalized license plates by the U.S. DMV?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there is no US DMV, states do their own plates...'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, then it's just banned in Kansas (well, that we know of. It's possible it's banned in other states as well)'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still a pretty stupid bad.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ban'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the ban likely had nothing to do with the song/dance, and more to do with something local that can be made of the letters, but dunno'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In other news, John McAfee of McAfee Antivirus fame, is wanted for murder.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'can't use blatant profanity, etc in most states either'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you're thinking on Gangham. Gundam is a series of Japanese anime metaseries featuring giant robots.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, true, gundam wing'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the other thing has been so pervasive that's where my mind went :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like gold's headed back up'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'French Nutella fans are up in arms because a new proposed French tax would raise the costs of producing Nutella (because it's a tax on palm oil, of which Nutella consists of 20%) by a whopping 3.33 cents per pound! The horror!'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they're happy with a 75% income tax band'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had an eerily similar problem here when they decided to try and add VAT to hot pasties and pies'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'The french love to strike.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also love to surrender'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'and they love frog legs'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and hairy armpits'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'now I think we've covered most of it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their fuel isn't quite as highly taxed as ours though'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure Citron quit or whatever, like, 5 years or so ago. That or she (?) just became nigh-invisible for the latter part of her tenure.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the 2015 Ford Mustang is nice.'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'ford makes mustangs?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kinda like a bulkier lamborghini'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Why did I think ferreri make the, I wonder...'
T3/r7/2012-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'them rather'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Aw, Hostess is going out of business.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I bet Bimbo foods buys the brand.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'now who will give us bowel cancer?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, for a cool $ 5 million invested in aussieland, you can buy residency in Australia.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'and raise donkeys?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is only $500k for the US, and $1.1 million for the UK.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The ruling coalition of the Swedish parliament wants to introduce 1 period of phys. ed for EACH school day of the week because "obesity is increasing". Meanwhile, Sweden has approximately 1/3rd as many obese people as the U.S...'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Altarboy: 'all hail 'le sweden''
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'for younger children there appear to be good reasons to have an hour of moving around every day'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We already have 2 periods of phys. ed. a school week. I think 5 is too much.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I used to think that school should emphasize core subjects, like 1st language - math - 2nd language'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Altarboy: 'school needs more subject like 'outsourcing parenting' and 'daycare for latchkey kids''
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I suppose I still do, since at least in Norway, you learn so little in the other (theoretical) subjects, anyone can catch up with 10ys of curriculum in a few weeks'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, in Swedish schools, we already do that. There are 3 "core subjects" you MUST pass in order to make it to the next grade: Swedish (1st language), English (2nd language) and Maths.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Now I tend to think more that the entire school system needs to be reformed and adapted to how children/real people learn'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, we don't teach to learn...we teach to answer questions on a test...'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'since capacity for learning, ability to make sensible judgement calls, some self-insight etc is more important even than the core subjects'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'School is mostly about learning to reproduce solutions to certain types of closed form problems, but that isn't what school ought to be.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, mostly about storing kids while growing up, but the 'academic' part is mostly about reproducing those solutions..'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mirror subj - soz - can't follow atm - will revisit logs - TY '
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, a 500 mile lithium battery for vehicles.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I heard Texas is seceding from the Union...'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'also that a large portion of the rest of the US wants to as well, but have not yet gotten through the proper procedures to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, a nearly-naked supermodel goes prancing down the runway and enough people's first reaction is "RACIST!" that Victoria's Secret is pulling the outfit from the show.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Uganda set to pass "anti-gay" legislationcc'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arse'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ireland pass legislation allowing UN takeover of their child-confiscation and childcare welfare laws'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Irish parliament can now confiscate, shoot up, or forcibly give abortions to kids without permission of parents and without any conviction of wrongdoing on behalf of the parents'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'could you clarify, parliment can shoot up children??'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give any form of medication or vaccination'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without consent'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'or heroin'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could include heroine'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not what was intended, but doesn't preclude that'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, staggeringly naive and overbearing regulation'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aardwolf Hotel?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, San Diego residents face 6 years in prison for washing their car'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty typical of California's bizarre environmental lawssa'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty typical of California's bizarre environmental laws'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure you're just bullshitting again based on faulty/incomplete information.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Under the draft rules, ordinary homeowners may face six years in prison and fines of $100,000 a day if they are deemed serial offenders of such new crimes as allowing sprinklers to hit the pavement, washing a car in the driveway, or, conceivably, failing to pick up dog poop promptly from their own backyards, let alone the sidewalk.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And a source would be found where?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.nctimes.com/news/opinion/editorial/that-dog-may-cost-you-a-day/article_236d6cf2-31d5-5ec4-ac9a-d8b12d082c59.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I hate walking near sprinklers'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As usual, you're exaggerated out of your fucking ass.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Today, HEARINGS began on DRAFTS for new laws.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't write the newspaper article, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you just SUCK at reading comprehension.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You claimed the laws were ALREADY IN EFFECT.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But they aren't. Which you would've known if you could comprehend basic English.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'odd, "under the draf rules, ordinary homeowners face"'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which bit of that did you have trouble with/'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"face" doesn't claim they're already in effect you dunce'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"As regional water-quality officials BEGIN HEARINGS on new regulations that seem "'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, the key word here is "draft rules". Do you even know what the word "draft" means in this context?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rest of the news was too depressing to repeat'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the comments pretty much call bullshit on the article.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not too interested in what the comments say, since comments are usually from dregs of society. The fact that there are draft regulations being penned that even contemplate it is enough'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The point is that as usual, you're an alarmist prick who'll cry wolf whenever possible.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the draft would be more fitting coming from Oregon, the state that insists all rain that falls on the state belongs to the state'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you'll exaggerate EVERYTHING and NEVER apologize when you get caught.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'or even recant.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you think nothing exists until after it's happened'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you must be chinese or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that sounds racist'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can something "exist until after it's happened"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Chinese people don't believe anything they see or hear until their government denies it'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Before. Exist before.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Perhaps we should have an "Aardwolf readers don't believe anything they see or hear until Yuna screams bullshit at it"'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How about you just stop fucking lying?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Laws are being drafted and discussed" =/= "Laws are in effect already!!!!!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said laws were in effect already, you're just getting senile'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"heh, San Diego residents face 6 years in prison for washing their car"'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's you blatantly stating that the laws are already in effect.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How can they FACE anything if the laws are not YET in effect or have even been voted through the legislature yet?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'face doesn't have that meaning'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Of course it does.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only in your delusional mind'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now you're going to redefine the English language to weasel your way of another lie.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'else it'd be "sentenced"'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Typical.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you all face nuking for arbitrary rules someone is imagining right now'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'would you agree with the sentence 'San Diego residents face a potential 6 years in prison for washing their car'?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are such arbitrary rules being penned?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I can pen them if you want!'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not if there are absolutely no laws in place for such a thing to happen.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or considered? if yes, then yes, i am'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They cannot face such penalties if no such laws exist at the moment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'x faces y under new proposals'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'hence the term potential'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'facing something doesn't mean you will get it'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'xxx faces a death penalty for murder accusation'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'complain to the writers, i'm not terribly interested in your constant bitching over terminology yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good night :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'this sentence is false if xxx is innocent, but not false if xxx is guilty?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's absolutely no law in place that will give a death penalty to an innocent'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, this is why it is preferable to make clear something is someone else's writing. eg. "XYZ" - Hinterpommern Daily'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a test of probability to it... if you say that you face obliteration by meteor strike every time you fly, people will mock you'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Used to be very popular a few years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It would have merit if he'd been first.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But he was LAST.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I really need to stop mischanning Debta.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Debta.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you been drinking?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait... I think my zMUD's got some weird alias that rewrites deba-te as Debta for some weird reason.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost peers intently at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Must've been due to some weird mispressings of buttons that I didn't notice.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mye: 'then how are you talking on this channel?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Good point. Possibly I'm just tired (it's 02:45 A.M. Idiot roomate spent the entire night talking very loudly on Skype).'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mye: 'that's what calculus books are for.. one whack upside his head and you can sleep'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mye: 'although i use my edition of stewart as a booster seat at the piano'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm glad my idiot roommates are moving out. Two of them NEVER do their dishes unless I scream at them. The other has absolutely no respect for me or the time. She'll waltz into the kitchen at 4 in the morning and bang around in order to make Kool Aid and wake me up (my room is adjacent to the kitchen) and not even be apologetic about it when I yell at her. And she'll keep me up at night with loud conversations on Skype or some shit. I basically kicked them all out, but they have 'til the end of the month.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost freaks out, screaming "Oh My Bot!"
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm gonna screen my future roommates veeery closely.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mye: 'charge them extra so you can eventually soundproof your wall.. turn your room into a panic room'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eh, too late. Already kicked them out (gave them 30 day's notice).'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'One of them even got ME basically kicked out of the apartment due to misbehavior. I managed to negotiate the landlord down, but I'm not staying now that there's bad blood, so I'm currently apartment hunting. She's not even sorry or recognizes that she did anything wrong. Moral of the story: Don't let immature idiots move in with you. The girl who got me kicked out is mano-depressive (a fact she did NOT disclose 'til she'd moved in) and has since stopped taking her meds. The 2nd roommate and his girlfriend are 16 and 18 respectively and HIGHLY irresponsible.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I needed roommates to cover the rent. I'll make sure never to go for the easy option. I'll conduct thorough interviews and vetting from now on.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'No offense, but what did you expect with a 16/18 yo?'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The 18 yearold SEEMED responsible and nice. But I suspect he's just a habitual liar.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Prior to moving in and actually for a month or two, he was perfectly pleasant and responsible, but that quickly went out the window. One day, he started dating the 16 yearold and said "She'll probably move in with us sometime in the future" and one day I came home to her in the house and they just expected me to let her live with us.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They agreed to have her pay 1/4th of the rent despite sharing his room so I figured "Well... I guess I can live with that, especially since she'll probably at least be able to help him do the dishes" but then they BOTH just started leaving their dishes behind... for days on end.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, their laughable excuse? "We don't have time to do the dishes. We have school and other commitments! So we'll do yesterday's dishes in the morning before going to school or right when he come back from school. We don't have the time to do the dishes right after eating, though! That would be insane!" (meanwhile, they spend hours a day gaming and on Youtube and watching movies and whatnot). I feel like I'm living in a reality show with some of the worst roommates possible.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's a trust fund baby, though, so he's set for life. And an only child. His parents are related to a famous Swedish singer, so he's even from "noble stock" or whatever. Which explains why he's so fucking spoiled. Too bad I didn't know any of this before he moved in.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I kicked them all out (well, I kicked two of them out, the 3rd went along with them, as I expected she would) and they're all planning on moving in together. I'm secretly elated at the thought of the three of them living under the same roof. I want to see how long they can last.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I always do my dishes. I will then ask them to do theirs. There'll always be dishes left over and they'll all blame each other. They also habitually steal each others' food, none of them will buy common shared household items such as cooking oil or toilet paper unless told to (despite the fact that there's a store on the way to our house from the subway station). They're all pigs who always leave the bathroom in a mess and the boyfriend and girlfriend often talk shit about the 2nd girl and vice versa. I look forward to them falling apart in their new apartment.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because I'm petty like that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, I have no idea how they managed to expend twice or three times as much electricity as any reasonably human being. Our electric bills are often through the roof.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elxi: 'If he's got money why didn't you just hire a housekeeper and charge them (granted it wouldn't stop the annoying one)'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because they're unreasonble fucktards. They wouldn't agree to footing the entire bill for the housekeeper and I don't feel like paying a single red cent for THEIR mess.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I spoke to soon. The fucktard loudmouth is STILL on Skype.'
T3/r7/2012-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She works nights and will oftne come home in the morning and sleep 'til the afternoon and I try to be as silent as I can when she does that out of respect but fuck that shit. The minute I wake up tomorrow, I'm gonna boot up Dance Central 3 and dance my ass off. Loudly. At a high volume. Fuck respect for those fuckers. I'm sick and tired of taking the high road and not living my life the way I want to because I have roommates.'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is quiet tonight ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'any non game news  ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you only watch one link tonight, watch this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5zNwOeyuG84'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it sums up the major problem with geopolitics, syria, and american administration(s) approach'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Panetta needs to be sacked'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's why states want to secede'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'among the reasons'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's why some in those states want to'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"I worship the CFR - I'll consider the input of Congress to what I do"'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Good one, Leon'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you heard the interview with Dr Steve Pieczenik, and i'm inclined to believe him'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've seen all the news reports of generals and other high ranking army officials being removed'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure that has nothing to do with people knowing inconvenient things or being on the wrong side of some political divide.'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You know about the secession petitions, right'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's Dr Pieczenik's belief, Tinada, that the CIA is basically now groups of hired mercenaries paid to do things legal and illegal outside of the USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'google being complicit in covering up hits'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'same with Benghazi'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that the Army is having all of leaders that wouldn't take orders from civilians to do illegal things removed from power'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'That youtube link shows Panetta and Dempsey pretty much saying the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e the chain of command has been subverted'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for a whole raft of different reasons, i'm inclined to agree, and especially agree that there needs to be a cleanup of all the dodgy generals, the CIA needs disbanding and a smaller foreign intelligence service brought under the wing of the military'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I thought pretty much everything about colonel was a political game'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'above, not about..'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well this all ties into the Petreaus case'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like, why was the FBI spying on the Director of CIA's emails without a warrant?'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'd be an outcry if a sitting president's email was hacked by the FBI'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'Sean Hanninty's head is literally going to explode. Pres Obama just praised the relief efforts in Northeast.'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the effort? no fuel, limited water, no electric, and an incomptetant FEMA?'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'not agreeing or disagreeing with his statement. but i cant wait to hear hannity implode about it'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Pretty sure Petraeus was just a Benghazi cover-up'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'petraeus is a fallguy, clearly'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Scapegoat all the "liabilities"'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now you've got Israel trying to drag Syria, Egypt, and Iran into war'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and at the same time, stop markets plunge in the face of the fiscal cliff'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's just stalling until things are in place'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'one QE will blow it up as a pin pricks a balloon'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's all going pretty much as commentators said it would: economic meltdown, and while it's going on, war in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'makes you proud to be American, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sounds like the idea was to cripple home-America around the time the mask is pulled off'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime you have muslim brotherhood, for which Al-Qaeda are a military support branch for, are in charge of Libya, Egypt, Yemen, soon to be Syria'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same people that we've been fighting to put in charge are the very same people used as an excuse to role out a surveillance police state'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'people are stupid'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'As if the NDAA weren't evidence enough'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not enough for some, DosseT'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people will deny it right up until the point they find themselves in a prison camp'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though those like Yuna will probably end up being the prison camp guards'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so now Israel is commiting further war crimes bombing the crap out of Gaza'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what will the whitehouse's response be to the petitions?'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'white noise'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Texas have a legal right to leave whatver the administration says'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'part of the terms of their joining'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if Texas goes, the rest will probably have to follow'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other good news, US budget deficit in October up 22% '
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2kKZQyKJ3h8'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ptIOKxo6LZs'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK unemployment 'statistics' fell 49,000 in october, government inflation 'statistics' rose to 2.7%'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation set to continue to rise as fuel tax rises and sizeable increases in energy bills as a result of governments energy policies kick in next year'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Congressional Budget Office DIrector Douglas Elmendorf testified before the House Budget Committee that Obamacare would cost 800,000 jobs'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prices set to rise across the board as businesses pass on the cost'
T3/r7/2012-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Maine and Rhode Island legislators to introduce bills to legalise marijuana'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lunchtime news: Foodstamp recipients in Ohio will see their entitlement drop by $50 thanks to the way it is calculated from the previous years weather (among other things). The announcement conveniently coming after the election'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a lot of things are conveniently coming after the election'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not really a surprise, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'replace democracy with ... Anarchy ? ... capatalism ... both power forms exist in present day democracy and have an impact on it , imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'to be fair, the U.S. isn't a democracy, but I know what you mean'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama caught lying in a press conference: "What we do know is the temperature around the globe is increasing faster than was predicted even 10 years ago."'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might explain why he's running a >$1tn debt, since he has no concept of stats'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'He was probably using a speech written in 1998 or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Should cut the poor man some slack'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Obama caught lying at the press conference: If you want to have a discussion about Benghazi, I'm more than willing to do that'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lie'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.examiner.com/article/president-obama-i-am-a-firm-believer-that-climate-change-is-real'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'speaking of obama: http://tinyurl.com/arjtsk8'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Climate change is real, the climate is always changing!'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'And the grand mullah quotes that one historian who says that the holocaust didn't happen...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my issue with it is this: there's tons of really important problems surrounding ecology, pollution, and sustainability'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why to they duck these issues and use instead mantras that are demonstrably dodgy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Although apparently UN publications and 'scientific consensus' is not a great predictor of future changes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or put another wayL: You don't need to lie about there being global warming to argue for clean renewable energy'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why lie?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'all sol'ns that adress the real problems are not very popular ... imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that coupled with comparative advantage loss are real disincentives to tackling the "real" problems imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_spectrum'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'A primer for those who don't know the physics...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbody_radiation'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's lovely, sonshi, it neither describes global emission trends, doesn't explain other influences, doesn't justify current policy, nor explain the lies'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and in case you don't know what "lie" means http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lie'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know full well what lie means, and so do you'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the physics is simple, more greenhouse gas, more heat goes in than goes out'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the physics is hardly simple...the physics is oversimplified'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the climate of this planet isn't defined that simply'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the fact that radiation forcing increases is simple...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and if it was the only mechanism at work, you'd be right, but there's many more variables'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not really, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the part that is "hardly simple" comes when you have to put in feedback effects'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right...you mean the part that means that your entire premise is incorrect'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but we know which direction the equilibrium moves, easily'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'feedback effects only determines how far the equilibrium moves, not which direction'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sonshi is arguing that cold potatoes are hot while Obama is lying about the world being flat'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't, evne'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the statement which began this particular thread was not a statement that "global warming is caused by xxx" or "exists"...the statement was "these measurements changed in this way"...which is not true'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'long term climate modeling is imo like guessing if I'll be drunk tomorrow - the answer is yes but what effects and how that plays out is determined on so many as yet undifined variables  :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I did address that statement with one statement...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact of the matter is this: as population increases, co2 in the atmosphere will increase, the climate will change'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not that I saw'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, that's why you see climate agencies stopping their practices of trying to predict weather, for instance, NOAA doesnt' give hurricane forcasts anymore'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even without the population, climate will change'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '[15 Nov 07:56:28] (Debate) Sonshi: 'And the grand mullah quotes that one historian who says that the holocaust didn't happen...''
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and I have another 2 bottles of vodka in the freezer .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which again has no bearing...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are we talking about the same statement here?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'global average temperature over the past year'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'err decade'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'global average temperature has been static over the last 16 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so Obama's statement is incorrect'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'most studies I've seen show it rising'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'too many times I have this go down as a pissing contest or lost in semantics (usually in backpedaling from the first scenario) - lets see if this is any different ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most studies will show data only up to the mid 2000's'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'studies or recent statistic compilation?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like the ice content of the north pole, the data only goes back to 1970'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so the mid 2000s was 16 years ago. Ok.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the topic is convoluted by different investigating bodies playing with their own data'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come on sonshi, grab some data points and plot a line of best fit, '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any cloth eared mathematically illiterate person can see if you have more data in the series, the line changes'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'cloth eared?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '- so what we can do about this is pretty simple .. what Are you doing about following simple solutions ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the data for the last 16 years throws major doubt on those models'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what data? You mean the data which still shows that average temperatures are still elevated?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'elevated at 0.4 degrees above the previous average?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'elevated isn't the same as rising...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that' the same problem as comparing the artic ice levels to 1970'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the world didn't start in 1970'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the statement was specifically regarding the vector, not the level'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Climate science is still to a large extent working in a pre-scientific paradigm - they are collecting more numbers and doing fancy inferential analysis, leading to a situation where you are right or wrong with a higher level of confidence or precision.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/2011/13'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's perfectly consistent with rising temperatures. Given that the average temperature rise is well below annual variation, you can't expect the signal over any given 10 year period to rise above the noise with high probability'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If Obama claimed that the temperature increases at a quicker rate than UN/consensus models estimated 10 years ago, then it is going to be difficult to provide facts to back up that statement, I think :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's at best divisive handwaving statistics'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's like throwing a slightly loaded die ten times and claiming that you don't see any bias'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then I'm reading that wrong, cuz it looks to support tiger's statement to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, those figures sonshi produces do not show a trend'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's why we have a large data set, so that the error is lower'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(you do know what a trend is, right?)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or largely flawed data . '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I have seen scientists complaining about sample biases'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the ranked temperatures is consistent with warming, and inconsistent with not-warming'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's a different issue'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do not show that'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not what i'm reading in it, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'second column of the first table, for example'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not relevent'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, the first histogram'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the first table shows consistent temperatures throughout the 21st century...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can more or less observe the annual variation...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '2011 being cooler than 2001'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i look at your histogram i see rising temperatures from the 1950s to the mid/late 90s, then it being stable'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'gee, I threw a 6 then a 1, obviously the die cannot be loaded'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, the annual variation which is fluctuating (in TWO directions) between .50 and .64'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what were the global temperatures doing before 1950?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see, i'm old enough to remember scientists claiming that we were about to go into an ice age'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that chart doesn't include years before that, but you can dig it up elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'boring scientists who think the sun is important seem to believe it's getting colder again for the next cycle or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how dare they think the sun might have anything to do with our climate, that's a conspiracy theory!'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I also seriously question the assumed measurement error for the surface temperature sets'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, but the chart in itself is not trending upward in a year-over-year "greater rate than we predicted in 2002"'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not only the methodology and the scare tactics, it's what's being done "in the name" of climate change'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the sun's cycle is bounded in both directions, at least at this stage in the sun's life.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's just an excuse for big corporations to make huge amounts of money, and for authoritarians to stick their boot on the people's head'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'only 3 of the years since 2002 were higher than 2002...can you agree with that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but all of the years after 2000 were...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You say that as though it's a bad thing, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'loaded dice, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've already had energy prices going up here 10% a year for the last few years thanks to climate change based taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'America looks like it's going to follow'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you examine what this money is used for? profits for energy companies'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do know that taxes go to the govt right, not corporations...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy is right there - the current mining/carbon tax is as much about decreased revinue stram for gov as anything sels - gov (and Taxation) is becoming increasingly irrelavent - global warming etc is the popular lever whereby gov can increase revinue imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you do know what the green energy levy is used for in the UK, Sonshi? You do know how much tax money US administrations gave to green energy companies, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if your govt wants to take the tax money and throw a party or something, that has nothing to do with the idea of the tax itself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all they needed to do was legislate maximum CO2 emissions on new plants, and give some form of time scale for existing ones to implement'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the markets would have sorted it out'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's your govt being nuts'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's from the UN, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the tax were large enough, there'd be no need to subsidise any company.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while it might be UK's implementation, or the US implementation, that's what the UN wants'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it does have to do with it when the tax itself is (from the onset and passing of it) earmarked for that purpose'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm not sure what physical law prevents the tax from not being earmarked for dumb things'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'physical law?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government should not be in the game of picking winners'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the same reason they should have no bailed out banks, or allow them to create money'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a tax being passed which is earmarked for dumb things is a dumb tax regardless of what is being taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol Abe - Oz gov does n ot earmark tax - was tried once with fuel and roads - was a fail according to old bikers/truckers '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the tax itself is good. Just don't waste the money, and use it for sensible things'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so claiming that the tax is a good idea with that as the premise is bad'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, Abe has the right of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you know, like how the same applies to other tax revenues...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tobacco tax atm - not earmarked for hospitals '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the tax is not, and cannot be, good when that's what the tax is for (not what it's on...what it's for)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The third IPCC report was from 2002 (2001?) and said temps up by 3ish-degrees (+/- 2) by 2100, so about 0.3c per decade, I don't think anyone believes the temp has increased by more than that estimate since then'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, except for Obama, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'now, they can always sidestep my claims by just having the tax be for the general coffers...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now, if the UK government put a levy on energy and used that money directly to build sensible largescale energy.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they didn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same will be true of the tax coming in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again, what's preventing the tax from going into the general fund? Why must you insist it gets wasted?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sonshi: the way the tax is written'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they didn't have to write it that way...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is not, never has, and never will, go into the general coffer without rewriting of the law that passed it'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right...writing it that way MADE IT a bad tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and that's not the way that supporters of pigouvian taxation want it to be done'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you know the net effect of this carbon tax will have in the USA, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because i can tell you'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any idiot can tell you'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will put energy prices up'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in exactly the same way that obamacare will cost jobs and put prices up'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so? It's easy enough to adjust for that'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, that's because the supporters of the tax benefit monetarily from the way it's written...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'adjust HOW?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so OF COURSE they want it to be done that way'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok eugenics perhas but while buisness rewards and grows functional individuals and the gov must provide for the opposite gov wil always be reliant on the functional in private enterprise for tax... we can't kull the baggage ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'give everyone $100 a year or something similar'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can't, Sonshi, the money is already spent'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh yay, rebates'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, whether energy prices going up is a good or bad thing can be debated as well...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'non earmarked rebates ... waste'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again, that's an issue with your govt. They can waste *any* revenue that way'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's definitely not a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm all for things costing an amount reflective of their true cost, which is why i'm anti-duty'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and anti-chinese imports'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who said anything about rebates? Back home they hand people cash, you can do what you want with it'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd imagine that people drive cars a lot less distance (and for a lot less trivial purposes) in europe than the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can call it a rebate, but it's still cash'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sonshi: handing you cash is the very definition of a rebate'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is the point of taxing people then giving it back to them?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you gave them money...they give you some back...that's a rebate'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, I thought a rebate is a refund of a cost...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like an excuse for beuracracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hand em a voucher instead - scial engineering is done is such wayss '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyhew, lunchtime is over, i need to get back to work'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dream wel Tiggy'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because it changes the structure of taxation in a favourable way. And it's cheaper if you give everyone the same amount. No need for means testing'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, but then you get the screamers that "you're giving the millionaires rebates"'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'perhaps a classical deb setting - moderator would make this chann more effective ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '(not that there's anything that can be done without someone screaming)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, they'd need to be more effective at explaining things, yes...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it's easy to point out that the cash is peanuts to the rich anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Abe as long as it is not the ppl that contribute to campaign funds that are screaming - who cares '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and peanuts compared to their additional tax burden too'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, nobody wants to hear "he paid 2M in taxes", merely that "he paid 13%"'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and inversly penuts compared to the long term implications .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'exactly... explain that the $100 handout is 0.001% of their income, or something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the US capital gains rate is a bit on the low side'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'should be pushed up to 30% or so/be closer to tax rates on income from work'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'of course you can argue that companies already paid tax on the money'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'shouldn't be just flat 30%... Ought to be 0% on first 50k or something, then 30%, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'any with exemption on owner occupied housing up to a certain level'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that will lead to overinvestment in private housing, which is not good for the economy overall'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ugh - too drunk - cracked 2nd bottle a while ago - will listen in but void future contributions - '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or, if you look around you in most wealthy countries, it has already led to..'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tz - spectator '
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, whether it will lead to overinvestment in housing depends on expectations of future increase...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which can be managed with a strong public housing program'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'tax subsidies to sector x lead to overinvestment in sector x'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'nothing magical about that'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's only a subsidy if the real value of housing increases...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'obviously there has to be the expectation that the subsidy regime lasts for some time'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it's a subsidiy if housing is treated more favourably than would normally be the case'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as the rate of capital gain on housing is lower than that in the general economy, after taxes, it will be fine'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a strong public housing scheme will work as an "anti"-subsidy, cancelling out the effect'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Say, the base is you own a house worth 250k, market rent is maybe 20k, you live in the house, you get 20k added to your income when calculating tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'to ensure symmetric treatment etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you would then also have to get full deductions for any interest paid'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'public housing policy in the UK screwed up the housing market'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'weren't you going to work?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am working :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'like in most other markets, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'thing is, if you added sufficient supply such that there's little expectation of after-tax gain versus other sources of capital gains, there won't be a problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What does make sense is to not tax capital gains before you sell the house - that does represent a tax subsidy, but the alternatives create more practical problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'capital gains tax should be scrapped'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'long term increase in housing prices is fairly close to inflation'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i agree that residential property investment for the purposes of making money on the VALUE of the property is bad'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the thing I have an issue with is, if you have a 300k house that goes to 600k because everything else has gone up by the same amount, if you tax that "gain", you can't move into a similar house.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here it isn't, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I didn't say anything about land values!'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why I think that up to a point, owner occupied housing should be exempt from capital gains...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'half of England geting sort of overcrowded by now'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'England was overcrowded by the mid 1950s'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'land values tend to track the growth of the economy rather than inflation. Since real growth tends to be positive over long periods of time...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'growth is largely an illusion'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... is this the school of everything-is-an-illusion?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then what? The school of only-agriculture-counts?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i thought it was quite clear - growth isn't what it's cracked up to be'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's very different from growth being an illusion'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially since the figures are inflated through deceptive interpretation of inflation'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In Norway, there is no capital gains tax on private housing that you have recently lived in yourself. Wealth tax is artificially low (based on around 30% of value, typically), and there is no calculated income tax either. All of this leads to housing prices being quite high.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'growth is nebulous, and not really a solution to anything. growth cannot continue indefinitely'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's "hey, I don't have any rice!" vs "hey, my rice has weevils in 'em!"'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Essentially, the 80% who own houses give themselves subsidies and make it harder for the remaining 20% to climb up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'solution: build more housing'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'other countries may not have similarly extreme tax subsidies, leading to less misallocation problems'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'build more housing where?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Uk was destroyed by buy-to-let housing, strangulation of land supply, and government subsidy of the rental market without building social housing'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the bottom line is we have too many people for a small amount of land'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Part of the point here is that the tax subsidies lead to people building too many/large/fancy houses compared to what they ought to (ie. more capital allocated to housing)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home we don't have capital gains taxes... and we do have high housing prices... however, it's not a bubble if it's sustainable. And the govt really ought to build more housing to stem the rise in prices...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that part can not be solved by building more houses :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'abelinc - somewhere with plenty of land. next to the city. Put in infrastructure, rail lines, commercial areas, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, but outside north america, there's not all that many places like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of places like that, just not places where people want to live'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in your home country, where would that extra housing go?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here, all we can do is have massive public house building in cities, but it needs to be held onto by the state to force the rental prices down'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'tinada - if you build large and fancy houses, capital gains taxation or lack thereof won't make a difference if the price rise is small...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, for us it's a bit hard given the lack of land... we often tear down old buildings'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but our neighbours have plenty of land...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'most countries have land to spare...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, that was my point...it's not an issue at all in the US, but much of the rest of the world has a hard time just building more'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no shortage of housing in the UK, just nobody can afford it'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'much of the rest of the world meaning the ten or so densely populated countries?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also, people who have money cannot build the house that they want'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '10 or so...right'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not counting china, india, brazil, russia, which have plenty of land...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not a eugenecist, but ultimately the Uk needs a population reduction of some 66% or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or france, germany, austria, italy, ukraine...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'remember that not all land can be used for housing (nor should it)...as far as habitable land, there's not all that much in many places'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'most of the world has a population density which is a tiny fraction of mine... and we still have land which is yet to be released...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Capital gains alone will not make much of a difference, no. Calculated income for income tax purposes is most important.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'guess nobody needs crops or livestock'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..and wealth tax, if you have Norwegian rates for that..'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, yeah... but there's still plenty of space. If you build to even half our density, it wouldn't take up much space at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and (since we started the thread on an eco note) we certainly don't need to preserve any wildlands'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'each area (whether state, country) should be capable of self sufficiency'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'your density is criminal :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the space you'd need for housing is pretty small compared to the habitable space, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm certainly not saying build a ranch for everyone!'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you shouldn't be dictating to everyone exactly what sort of house they should live in'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people want to live in cities, some people want to live in burbs, some want to live rurally'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'much of the world already lives in tiny pigeonholes... why not build large pigeonholes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you aren't forcing people to live in the flats... you build it, and when you get to the target price, you slow down, adjust accordingly'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are effectively saying exactly that by making flats the only option'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would even lower the price of rural housing, as more people are drawn to cheap units'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in the US, we had developers buying large tracts and building a shit-ton of small-medium cookie-cutter houses to sell, so entire working-class towns were founded by these guys just to sell lots of houses, worked out well for our geography, reasonable density without hearing your neighbor having sex }:>'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we have thicker walls...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You snicker softly.
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm just saying people should pay appropriate taxes for their pigeonholes. Misallocation apart, you really shouldn't be subsidizing people above a certain wealth level.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'seriously, I knock on the walls here and they sound hollow...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot of the Uk problems come from the way the planning system works. Big government-sponsored corps buy up huge parcels of land at agricultural price, government allows them to build on it, doesn't allow anyone else to build anywhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the issue is that "wealth level" is not indicative of sustainable level'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'net effect: building land price is insane'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I did say owner occupied up to a certain level...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, they are hollow!'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1/3 acre building plot here you're looking at $250,000'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like the first 20k times number of years lived is exempt or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if more people live in high density housing, there'd be more left for the rest, in some sense...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't though because of the way the planning system works. Building corps deliberately sit on land without building on it in order to keep the prices high'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the problem with the rows and rows of low density housing you see in the us is that the nearest doctor/dentist/market/food place, etc. is often more than a few minutes walk away'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why would they, instead of making more money? Unless they're all a cartel...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, wyv nearly got me earlier when i was distracted on debate'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'uh oh, Bono is now concerned about the fiscal cliff'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone give him a shove over it, feckless self-publicising creep that he is'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fiscal cliff, noun. A device by which two parties claiming to be worried about deficits that are too large, actually worries about it being too small.'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and just as I say that, I get a bonus train and bonus tp. Questor agrees with me!'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which makes governments and bankers artificers of fiscal cliff erosion'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their action created the cliff and moves it closer to the people each day, slowly but unstoppable'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'deficits increase national debt and permit the rich to obtain government-guaranteed interest rates on the monies they previously accrued (perhaps from taxcuts)'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, zela, and then wonder why banks aren't loaning to the little guys when they can make more money at less risk buying up bonds'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so they print more money and give to the same banks..... who use it to buy more government debt'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then they wonder why QE isn't working.................'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to fire your politicians...... preferably from a cannon off the fiscal cliff'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Do you have a license for that kind of pollution?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you claiming politicians are toxic and non-biodegradable?'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you may have a point. hmm'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'inflation beggars the thrifty poor, inflation doesn't affect the extremely rich much as their wealth is diversified'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, Zela, Sonshi's response to poor people affect by inflation is to have the government give them more money'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while all the time had they not inflicted it on them in the first place they wouldn't need to'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'starving off the poor so that the rich may avoid paying taxes is not a decent answer'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'starving off the poor in order to control them is the plan'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the purpose of society is not so that the rich may become richer'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you think, and despite being right, is not a concern of theirs'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'coming to a street near you: Civil War II - Zombies vs Patriots'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Judging by the number of votes cast, more citizens support no party than all parties combined'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and mis..'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although sort of a nicely placed one'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woohoo'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder why US's postal service is losing such vast sums of money while the UK postal service posted record profits this year...'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, joy to my ears, Apple shares drop to a 6 month low'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'down 25% since late september'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Altarboy: 'british posties use bicycles instead of huge gas guzzling trucks'
T3/r7/2012-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only in inner-cities/towns do they do that'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and yet another chann goes begging ... Cooking Chann !'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'test'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Marijuana-dispenser stocks jump 3000% in one week'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hostess Brands to lay off 18,000'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, there was a large hostess convo on immtalk already'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sucesion wouldn't be self immolation'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '- h4'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, 30 hours a week is the new fulltime now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, silly chumps'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'massive layoffs, hour cutbacks and price rises'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and Denny's is increasing their prices!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '4 more years of recovery! woohoo'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the thing is, I can't even get mad anymore'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the consensus is that everyone in the restaurant will embrace the idea, based on the assumption that the consumer doesn't care about small increases.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so the fluoride is working..'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh, hans?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, restaurant business.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when 25% of the restaurant workers have been laid off and the prices have gone up 5%?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're waiting to see the reaction to the Denny's activity.  If the consumers seem to not care, you'll have to hire more wagons to ferry the band around.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I don't think people are going to get worked up about that particular problem, but as people lose jobs and other industries raise their prices I think it'll become more of an issue'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'pretty soon we're all gonna be working in healthcare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best get that secession petition signed :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and get your state to nullify obamacare'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder if this will change the amount of people who have 2 part time jobs'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I wonder how that will affect unemployment'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll probably find they'll modify it so that you have to cough up regardless of your hours worked'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Arm yourself before U.N. Small Arms'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't escape health tax here through working part time, or self employed'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, but as companies cut their hours, people will have to go and make it up somewhere else'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have a go at what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There have to be jobs to go "make it up"'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I doubt that they'll change people's pay simply because they had to cut hours'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We're talking 50% unemployment and 90% stock market crash'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pay was already pressured down, same in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i had a real-terms pay cut last year, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much fun'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what I'm getting at is that you have people that are barely making it by working full time, now you're cutting their hours by 5-10, and I doubt they'll be compensated in pay, so they'll have to go get it else where, which means more job competition'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which means, more unemployment'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct, Raz'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ok, wasn't sure if I was being clear :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and of course, you realise they knew this would happen'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i work less than 10h every week and i gave myself a raise last year :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'oh, and i have healthcare'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all know you're a pimp, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm a job creator. created a job for myself where i don't have to do much'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds almost civil servanty'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lol. it does'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good job you're not in the USA, because if you were you didn't make that job'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nah. i would. the services i offer are needed everywhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fung shui consultant?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Altarboy: 'prostituition?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we did that one already'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i consult, yes. but i do useful things'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put it this way, good for you, but most people who work 10hrs a week don't earn enough to live on'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so your case is representative of the general low paid masses now, is it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no. just saying that if you're ambitious and creative unemployment shouldn't be a problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Dag.. spoken by someone who is both ambition and creative and employed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like something a rip-off merchant would say :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i do rip people off sometimes tbh. but i always warn them and they usually insist'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I should go buy all the twinkies and ho-ho's at the store across the street'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir claps at Razkin's performance.
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'see? there's the ambition and creativity :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if Dag's living on just 10 hours a week, he's one of those evil rich people Obama hates.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably, hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, you know people are doing that'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doing what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I bet all the stores are cleared of Hostess products by tomorrow'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because a Ding-Dong is a terrible thing to waste?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't see why, someone else will buy the rights to them'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but people will still do it'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and it's not like there aren't already generic versions of them already'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh well, each to their own'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you can sell vintage/original twinkies even if someone else uses the brand in the future'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'afaik they're fresh forever and hipsters love that sort of shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hands up who is surprised at all the burying of bad news they did until after the election?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'like what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'No! did they ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also, i wouldn't be surprised'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not surprised at all.  But then again, I listen to Fox and they've been reporting all this for years now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the fiscal "cliff" '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jobs figures, petraeus and libya'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Obama should have put together a Twinkie bail-out, I want my free twinkies!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think i've heard of libya before'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Watch Panetta testify that the U.S. had to get UN approval, and not that of Congress'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah it's over there somewhere '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tzadkiel  waves her arm over there
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'posted that the other night, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'fox news is my guilty pleasure :'('
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People don't believe in NWO/illuminati, even though the edifice has collapsed'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Libya is where Dubya goes to get those readination things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'tell us about the lizard people, dosset'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Ermagahd, Berks!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tzadkiel sighs - it all becomes clear now 
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You have worldwide taxes, worldwide disarmament, and CFR pushing the UN'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd be more worried about globalists wrecking your country and making you all essentially slaves'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, but they did that already'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'slaves to the lizard people!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'disprove it, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or maybe they're crab people?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, the time for worrying is already over.  Time to just enjoy the ride.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no, man, i'm with you'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'jews did titanic. iceBERG and all that stuff'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'leave the lizards and the crabs and just go with "bad people"'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and obama faked the moon landing'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stock up canned food n shotgun shells time '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'what do you know about the Titanic?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that those opposed to the bankers were all on it? and the bankers "missed" it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i know that the dude who sank the thing had a jewish name. COINCIDENCE?! you decide'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and it follows a novel of a ship crashing into an iceberg?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're building another one, also claiming it's unsinkable.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The enemies of the banksters at the time were invited to the Titanic.  It sank.  End of opposition.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but they probably understand material science a litte better these days'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, they do.  But you just don't fuck with superstition like that.  Bad things always end up happening.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'J.P. Morgan contracted the Titanic.  It has the three richest men opposed to the Federal Reserve on it.  Morgan cancelled his ticket.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty lucky for him'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i heard that that iceberg guy wasn't even arrested'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I heard that guy just melted into the surroundings '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'never seen again '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Consider him the Petraeus of the Titanic'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'chameleon people!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i heard those responsible for rigging the inter-bank loan rate, those responsible for stealing millions of dollars out of segregated pension funds, and those responsible for laundering billions of dollars of drugs money within banks didn't get jail time'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i fail to pay my council tax, i go to jail'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no. they were put in charge to clean up the mess'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now you know who runs jail'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Look at Barclays/LIBOR'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't the captain commit suicide?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'who's hating rich people now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'chameleon iceburgs <---notice the "Burg ...Jewish !!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tzadkiel nods 
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem is not the rich'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '....'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem is the people in charge'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't see any poor people rigging LIBOR rates'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't see all poor people stealing stuff'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also, think about it - titanic had 4 chimneys and hit 1 iceberg. 4+1=5. that's the number of fingers on the shadowy hand that controls it all. coincidence? you decide'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or breeding at horrific rates'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the problem is the poor.  They just bend over and take it up the ass like they want it, instead of wrapping rubber bands around the police chief's nutsack.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '4+1 signifys the 4 fingers and 1 thumb !'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in a position to steal and get away with it? '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'guaranteed to be rich'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir rapidly nods twice at Tzadkiel, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think i'm on to something'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or just on something :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Educate yourself, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You sound like a Philistine'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Start here: http://www.truthistreason.net/did-jp-morgan-sink-the-titantic'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm getting some beers and chips in on the offchance of egypt going to war against israel'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm hoping they both lose'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'has it got to that Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how's that quote go...we make your food, we drive your cars, we watch you while you sleep!'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'anyway, if i were a head of some ancient secret conspiracy i would a) quietly kill nuts, dosset and other "enlightened" people so they wouldn't reveal my evil plans and my moon base or b) have nuts, dosset, chemosh and others as my agents who would generate noise and discredit valid conspiracy theories'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yes because a tipping point to international global warfare is so amusing'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do that, dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's no secret'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It has been and will be the banking dynasties'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments do it too'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The best place to hide is out in the open'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ok, so it's option B then?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'canned food n shotgun shells ... thats plan B'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they tend to publicise obviously fake theories'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The best place to hide is out in the open, because other sheep will do your discrediting for you'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's called the Asch Effect; people on the macro level are group-thinkers'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'troll sheep'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Most people are stupid; so no surprise that the stupid sheep keep the smart ones in line by trying to shame then in said manner that you do'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when there is proper investigation into true stuff, people get shut down or shot - that's why Jesse Ventura's show on the TSA got pulled'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It doesn't work'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is also why David Kelly was murdered'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one among dozens of murders'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'don't forget Tupac and Biggie'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'know nothing about either of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Milton William Cooper'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ted Gunderson'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Jessie Ventura is why his show got pulled.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Aaron Russo'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who was the soldier who got shot because he exposed drug running?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it was pulled because it exposed the TSA airport stuff as pure theatre'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the recent one, or the one they built the movie Basic around?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'He exposed HAARP, TSA, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Plus, he is Navy SEAL Vietnam and knew Tonkin was a false flag'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and shows the ex-DHS chief benefitting financially from sticking in those dodgy scanners'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and also the governor of MN'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what do you mean by false flag?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Think Operation Northwoods'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or more recently, F&F'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or more historically, Operation Himmler'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'self inflicted wound intended to give justification for an action'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I dress up like "them" -> Oh noes, "them's" attacking'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's deliberate attrition to unify people for support'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is there a standard name for that tactic ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'False-flag'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they've been teaching about Tonkin being a setup move to get us into Vietnam for at least 30 years now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, and it was recently declassified too'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Read about it in history, and you'll see it repeatedly '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'back to the Romans'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Up to 9/11'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'TY I have done it before but didn't know the name of it '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder what Obomney is going to do about all these petitions he's going to need to address'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'those petitions are pretty worthless'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, but it's a good advert i guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Perhaps for effecting change, but for making issues known on the grander scale'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'real power is in getting your states to do stuff'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'repeat of the civil war except much worse'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nah, it'll never get that far.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yea, people are too dumb now'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Too many distractions'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'most states are already broke with no good spending policy in place.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'too comfortable'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol, really?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'too dumb to have a civil war?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Texas holds a balanced budget, i believe'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'homeostasis has become the norm '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Too dumb do be aware of their servitude'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'California is screwed'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Texas needed billions of fed money to "balance" their budget'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'texas would have no problems being independant, it's energy rich'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same as Scotland'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There will be, in the next generation or so, a pharmacological method of making people love their servitude, and producing dictatorship without tears, so to speak, producing a kind of painless concentration camp for entire societies, so that people will in fact have their liberties taken away from them, but will rather enjoy it, because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel by propaganda or brainwashing, or brainwashing enhanced by pharmacological methods. And this seems to be the final revolution.  -Aldous Huxley'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'enter prozac'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That time is now'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the prison without bars'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the matrix? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and a TV set '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Texas is smack dab in the middle of the most powerful military AND economy.  Texas would have serious problems with being independant.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Huxley was from the Tavistock Group - go read about what they do'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Oh yea, Brave New World author, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'isolinationism imo does not work well'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't his brother involved in UK intelligence services somewhere along the line?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'nothing like the ad hominem'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isolinationism?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'doors of perception too , lol best description of a chair ... ever !'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I was speaking to an independent Texas'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does it mean?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I took it that someone was suggesting Texas leaving the united states , I may have been wrong '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't mean they'd be isolated'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'texas could not leave the us'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no state could leave the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not in the sense N Korea is but still'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"could not"? they are legally entitled to'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any state can, in theory, though with Texas there are nooops to jump through'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no hoops'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the south will rise again ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I find it extremely unlikly that any state would leave the union'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't need to rise, they just need to stand on their feet while the rest of the western world collapses under the weight of authoritarian globalism'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlikely, but not impossible'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'agreed '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same arguments used by people who don't want UK to leave the EU'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would be nice to have a western country that actually was doing it right - or just different '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's a wholly different argument'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'on balance, in my view, the benefits of the EU are more than the costs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he means in practical terms, not legal ones.  Texas doesn't have the funds, and even if it did there's simply nowhere near enough of anything actually in Texas to support a defense against the US (via military or economy).'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best of luck with that'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the UK that's no longer true, kraken'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the euro however, the UK dodged a bullet on that one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you suggesting US would attack?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'tigernuts - i don't think so, but it's not an obvious answer either way'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, blockades, restriction of airspace, sanctions, tariffs, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Abraham Lincoln didn't say cyonara CSA, neither would any current president'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, texas is not landlocked by the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'modeb the dollar is the new sword'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the majority would never vote to leave anyway.  Remember, if you ask something on the internet, you can find a large number of people to agree with it'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and that's for *anything*'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK leaving EU? polls put the majority for leaving'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if Texans started doing the Pancho Villa type of guerrilla terrorism, then yeah they'd probably go military action.  Likely starting small-scale and moving upwards as necessary.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has been >50% for some time now'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'perhaps.. I don't agree with that myself.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a reason there's not been a referendum - they'd lose'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if there is enough popular opinion to win a referendum, there should be enough to force one'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'nah. the only party that'd force one is a fringe party.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'every major party promised one and renegged'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'just pointing out the contradiction'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the last major poll was conducted by Yougov in September 2010, Leave the EU won 47-33'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so why haven't they left yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because our government is run by the rich elite who do what is in their interests, not ours'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'UK has elected leaders'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'elect different leaders'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you silly twisted boy....'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's a psychology issue.  Most people form and hold opinions in one direction, but when actually faced with a real situation they typically abandon those opinions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'like entitlement reform'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '40% of the UK people will vote themselves a payrise, so will always vote Labour'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe 30% will always vote themselves a tax cut and vote Conservative'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the remaining 30% have no say'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for example, bullying.  Most folk will say that bullying is bad and that if they saw someone getting bullied they'd step in.  However, those same people will instead try to escape the situation (ie, let the bullying continue) if they encountered someone getting bullied.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'America has a similar problem - turkeys wont' vote for christmas'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you're being completely wrong tigernuts... as noraml'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'erm, normal'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is wrong, Kraken, you're not channeling Yuna are you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Depends Hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If someone opposed, they would likely oppose as well'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'don't need to. i've told you you're wrong and don't understand issues often enough to know you're wrong again.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Most people are followers/group-thinkers'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the clue is.. you're typing stuff in the debate channel'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then what am i wrong about?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'ascribing monolithic blocks to anyone.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'sure, thre's a lot of tribalism going on, but it's not anywhere near as simplistic as "voting a pay rise" or "voting for tax cuts"'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '"who shall lead? One in 20"'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well actually, i disagree, it is'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Maslow ? high functioning high dominance '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The problem is that TV/celebrities/MSM have become proxies for our leaders of today'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you'll have to explain in more detail.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'which people are voting "for a pay rise"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, actually, it doesn't depend.  That's what everyone does.  The thinking is that there's someone else who will step in, so that you don't have to.  The more witnesses there are, the more quickly you will abandon your opinions and beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and which are voting for lowering their taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's up to the make of the man'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you're sounding like mitt romney's makers vs takers, which is utter crap, as everyone outside his immediate circle are aware.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the working classes, the welfare classes, and the liberals that have been hoodwinked vote for a pay rise (labour)'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rich, the aspiration middle classes will tend to vote for conservative'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you seriously think there's a *large* number of people who *want* to be on welfare?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a generalisation, sure, but that doesn't make it less relevent'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i'm not denying there's some.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends what you mean by large number'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i'd suggest it'd be less than 1% of the voters in the country who are happy they're on welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i'm happy to be proven wrong if there are.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure that could be proven either way'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'obviously there are more actually on welfare, but most don't see it as a lifestyle'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not in Oz - 3-4 generation welfare dependant is the normol in many communities '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but either way, tribalism exists and is live and kicking'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means that we will always get the same crap each time'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'anyone have any ideas how much the employees from Hostess were making??'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, remember. almost no demographic group will split more than 70-30. In the UK '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well so far you've proven nothing'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'neither have you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's 100 years of election history to back the concept of tribalism up'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8654338.stm'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably no more than $10/hour, if that.  Probably closer to minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i'm not denying tribalism exists.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'because, it'd be dumb to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'what I am denying is monolithic block of voters'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'thanks hanslanda, I wish the media would actually report that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the context of a two-party system, there is no difference'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the uk has 3 major parties.. admittedly, it's more like 2.5, but heh.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's 2'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so we now see you're a liberal democrat'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: '2? there's a coalition government now. the 3rd party gets 20%ish of the vote.. admittedly only about 10% of the seats, but heh.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '30? they're polling at 9 right now'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'they got 23% of the votes in the last general election. 8.77% of the seats though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'this far from a general election, the polling is mostly irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds suspiciously like a talking point'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'but yeah. they've gone down since the election, quite a lot. disappointment with how they've acted in government mostly.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they stunk to begin with'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'as i said. they got 23% of the vote in the general election. that's a significant minority.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only decent policy they ever had was a local income tax to replace property tax, and they ditched that'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you may think they stink. that's your opinion, and we know which side of the left/right divide you stand on.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've never heard of the Nolan chart, then'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'what about it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you did, you'd realise i sit below'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you've spouted incorrect right-wing talking points most of the time i've seen you on this channel, and then failed to logically defend them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'which quarter are you claiming to be in?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's odd, because you've already been shot down once tonight'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i have?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'enlighten me?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tape measure time again :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tribalism'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'have to pay that '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'if you read what I actually said, I fully agree it exists. my first comment on the subject said that. I just don't think it's as high numbers as you're claiming'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i sit in the individualism quarter'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can argue over exact numbers, at least 30% will always vote labour, 30% will always vote tory'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'labour's tending towards 40 nowadays'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the remaining 30-40% of people decide the election, and parties realise this, which is why all the effort goes into those SWING places, and floating voters'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty elementary'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'voter turnout matters alot in the US too imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'i don't think it's a guaranteed amount like that. but, it's higher than i'd like, given how much the parties have actually changed their positions without loss of support.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'turnouts collapsed here because of lack of trust, lack of belief it'll make any difference'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'and, *obviously* pols will try and convert the swing voters. The question is, how many of them there are'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'the constituencys aren't as gerrymandered as in the US though, so there's a lot more swing districts.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'swing voter just means gullible'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep turnout was mainly those on the Ohbummer side as they saw "the change" ideal go under imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'twyst - assuming the parties never changed 1) policies, 2) competence, 3) likability of leaders, then they would be.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or the landscape changes '
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Remember sumtin.. Here. The Greatest minds run our lands & no matter what we think of them. They're in control! If we do enough of what's good for them or, or are born in the right spot & don't screw up. We can associate with them for a time. But local distributions & foreign ones with matters beyond may be too much for some people and we need crazy/smart and or powerfully set individuals to take the spot even if some of us here are good for the job and are ignored.. Thank you I'm done. I just wanted to add that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well here's the bottom line for UK election: We're screwed, and come 2015, we'll still be screwed, just by a different mob'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'greatest minds, lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'tigernuts - yeah, i actually agree to an extent.'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'someone mention Hitler again ? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if ever you wanted to see democracy in action, police chief elections - what a washout. nobody wanted politicised police chiefs, and the turnout was 15%'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'who would be the smartest supervillain of all time?'
T3/r7/2012-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'upgraded bender maybe'
T3/r7/2012-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you don't drink the first 500 ml or the last ltr - hence top n tail ur distilate '
T3/r7/2012-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'huh, more people want a Judge Dredd force patrolling the US than want to secede...'
T3/r7/2012-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'whitecloaks'
T3/r7/2012-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's depressing. I realy love it when I get 6 trains (possibly the maximum? I don't think I've ever gotten more than 6 (base)), but sometimes I only get 2. Which sucks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't think "Everybody hates Britney" is the reason. It's possible she asks for astronomical licensing fees, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait... the U.S. has a goat hunting season?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'elephant hunting season is over?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually hunting season in the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'taliban hunting season is year around?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when they're not shooting animals, they're exterminating freedom and liberty'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, the pews'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dammit - bloody donkey this time '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz Tiggy mischann'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be a quiet news day - same ole same ole, newspapers closing down, brown people bombing each other, continued spiral into depression at home'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Depressing eh? Well, war has broken out in the middle east again.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again? never stopped'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what happens when the west interferes in stuff that they have no business being involved in'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'I assume you mean, setting up a place for the Jewish people to live, in 1945.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rubio on November: 'Or earlier? I mean, the West has been involved in the Middle East since Alexander the Great.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'predominantly interference in the early 20th century'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lovely news headline: "Clinton pledges $45m to aid Al-Quaeda in Syria"'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'act local Tiggy .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'local - ie ur sphere of influence '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no sphere of influence'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like they're handing full control of regulation of the Internet over to the UN next month'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there will always be an undercurrent - kidy pron n those with the tools imo - the masses are just one more stpe removed ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still not a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be getting rid of the UN, not empowering it'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo the EU is here to stay - how else can we dictate terms to tinpot EU countries that just become pitri dishes to organized crime - like pakistan '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Pakistan is in the EU?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'like .. Romania .. you get the angle ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '....'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I was listening to one person making a fairly compelling argument (I think it was based on comments made by Milton Friedman) about how the history of humans is one example of the masses handing over their rights to small, governing bodies'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a trend that needs reversing'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes, but a very difficult trend to reverse'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even harder if USA capitulates'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'democracy based governments are the extreme rarity in human history'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy I say to you again - in your sphere of influence - go all out '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no spheres of influence'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the point being, when you look at it through that lens, it's not surprising that most of the world wants to pass its power over to one governing body'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you are more insane than I am ? - I can cortol myself for the most part '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy you can control an area around you ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what exactly is the 'area around you?''
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'threat matrix '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'what is control?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ability for control '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'most people would rather complain about the way things are than do anything about it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's easier said than done to change things, sometimes all you can do is get the word out'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Homeostasis .. is ikky'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no Tiggy ! at least defend urself '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the problem with getting the word out on the internet is that the internet is full of crackpots, and any word you do get out will be too diffuse to do anything.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Rather than complain, it would be better to come up with solutions and ideas... that might actually make a difference.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then everyone dies'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you make it sound like there is no plan'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but then you have to convince people to take part in those solutions and ideas, which requires changing their minds, which requires debate, which is seen as complaining'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'focused social media is the best the net can do and in each example a functional cell is required to take if further imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why inevitable people are going to burn and suffer, and the best of luck to them'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'corbon monoxide or Morphine are the best paths for that line of thought imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can lead a horse to water, you cannot make it drink'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can lead a trendy to the truth, you cannot make it read it'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I bet people have been thinking that we are screwed and nothing can change it for 150k years or so.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy can you lead you ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'you can make a horse drink with an IV'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, you can all burn :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'or a nose tube'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'umm yeah only a certain type of ppl have been thinking that Ran - social darwinism will eventually take care of that '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'advocating death - first marker I should't be here '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I am getting good at being me around you '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'at least we can be us longer before I am not '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'knock knock, Neo'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'neo ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'neo what ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there is nothing new under the sun - neo redundant ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'pop  culture ref ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, it's a Bible reference. Also a common Swedish saying (Inget nytt under solen, literally "Nothing new under the sun").'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah that is mot - but neo ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'moot*'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oh Matrix - Neo '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ty'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos . o O ( he's the one... )
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There can only One... the One.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I just realized that Neo is an angram for "One" :P.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'trying to track the Tiggy ref .. T man make it plain fer us idiots ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'cute Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'there can be only one ! bowie !'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or queen ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's cute is my Chinese pirated DVD with Chinese-style English subs of The Matrix. Every time the name "Neo" is spoken, the subtitles read "The One". And every time "The Oracle" is said, the words "The Prophet" is shown. Morpheus is knowing as something really weird and Trinity is transcribed as something along the lines of "Xia Chia Ti" or something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'highlander'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Have you seen the chinese pirated revenge of the sith?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or course I do not want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we digress ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Clinton's evidence to the Grand Jury" -> "Conveniently adjusting the record." '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the queen kind of magic soundtrack ! there can be only one ! LOL Yes ! lol TY Ran !'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I though we were on spheres if influence ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might have been'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally don't give much thought to it'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'very little point'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'an still - how say you - what energy are you putting into your sphere of influence that has made change ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'will you still be texting during the apoclypes ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'were you one of those bloody animal rights charity beggars that stands on street corners crazing people to sign up to donate in a previous life?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no I'm one of those anoying ppl that breaks local firearms laws to defend themselves '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're one of the 'evil terrorists' that have to be exiled then'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'exile me to my home - Oz - yeah I'm there '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy are youy a home defence person ? or you still trust the powers to be to enforce the law ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Ke sera sera ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok the action that will save (at least Tiggy) manifesto .. Go !'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'whats the strat ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not convinced there is one'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it needs to break before it can be rebuilt'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Ummm ok inaction ... mate I respect the hell outta ya but .. real world ... no plan ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can try to have contingencies in place for specific scenarios'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yours are ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's about it, though, you can't fix this - too bigger powers in charge, too many stupid people happy to be slaves'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'comes back to a shere of influence ? perhaps - what can you control "? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can control anything that comes withing arms length of me or anything that enters my home atm - or have a bloody good chance of doing that - certainly have better odds than most '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not control'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'join the NRA yet ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have no NRA'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm Oz - us niether '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'TYiggy my reason is not so abstract that it is lost on you ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ie you ken me ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i just don't agree with it, you think your illegal gun will help? it won't, you shoot someone? a swat team will take you out - what have you achieved? nothing'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I defended myself '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can't claim self defence if I'm dead '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you ok mate ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'personal bias ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guns clearly aren't a solution'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a third person would perhaps help ? I can'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a third person would perhaps help ? I cant fault my argument - usually I can but this is real basic in my eyes - perhaps open em ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what you're suggestion'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all you can do is vote with your $, support just causes, and insulate yourself as far as possible from the more cancerous manifestations of globalism and tyranny'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and keep an open mind'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm asking perhaps a 3rd person give fresh insight here - Yes I break the law but everyone does - I do so in this instance to protect myself - and I do realize that reliance on such is not perfect hence my training in Krav '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it you think you're protecting yourself from?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'deprivation of liberty - self defence '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will not manifest itself as a direct threat to your person'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '.....'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll manifest itself by the lack of employment, by food you cannot afford, by things you cannot say or do'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those are not things you can solve with a firearm'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'be thankful we have lived different lives mate - serious on that '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll never want for anything like that '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well gun control here is tighter than nun's vadge'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the bet i can say on personal protection is that in the event of a sizeable collapse, i know the right people to go see'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(but anyway, i'd go with a crossbow)'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Personal protection  - personal being the operative word - be responsable for your self  imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think even more important than protecting yourself, you need to hold true to your principles'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'crossbow ... I'm gonna slap U soon !'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I uphold my right to personal liberty above all else - and you'd better have 4 aces  or a huge lever in some cases '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'n anyway - batshit crazy - access to whatever - gets as angry as hell n drinks like she is 120kg n still aint spree killed ,,, I'm not so bad .. imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'perhaps act local a lil more ?  - we don't live in the corperate world and none of the sheep do either'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just waiting on Hamas to drop a chemical weapon on Tel Aviv right now'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Aw Tiggy I'd date you just so we could run through ur home defences ! '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they're back to their old game of hiding their artillery in civilian areas'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which I thought was a war crime, but ...'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't really have any non-civilian areas'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hospitals make great TV'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but you can not hide it in schools'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there you go, desperate peoples do desperate things, there's bad on both sides'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i'm still amazed that that area of the world hasn't completely razed itself to the ground'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'The Us is so stretched - indeed the UN in generally  - CHina knows the sword is the dollar ,, let em play it out  . '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'china feeds on India is this century while the greatsest minds of the western worl play games and fight their own country because it is no thiers anymore imo .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if Isreal goes into Gaza again, do you think they'll pull out , or stay in this time?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can take over India by the use of money, not arms'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they go into Gaza again, I expect all hell to break loose'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, that might be just as well'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if I remember correctly , last time they actually pulled out, and actually forced all of the jews to leave and move into israel'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and basically said, have Gaza'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm just curious if they go in, if this time they simply stay and occupy it'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a shame they decided to build settlements on the west bank in violation of the various treatise they signed up top'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh yeah, especially with Egypt, but still'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, from what i've seen on t.v., it looks like they're basically setting up to move in'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what it -would- do is have a polarising effect on the surrounding countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though I've also heard that they're discussing a cease fire, but I'm not sure how much faith I put in that'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'can you get more polarized?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'easily, you have countries that are neutral because America props up dictators there, such as Jordan, Bahrain etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have sympathetic countries being leaned on by the west, such as Syria, Lebanon, and Iran'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did Al Gore disappear up his own arse yet?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, arizona gun store puts up sign saying "If you voted for Obama, your custom is not welcome - you clearly aren't responsible enough to own a gun"'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'right on!'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that they're likely to be going there in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'back later, hopefully then Kraken and Yuna can tell me how wrong I am about everything'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dear oh dear, uk xfactor voting must be as fraudulent as the US elections...'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'man detained by TSA for having a novelty watch'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'why does anyone still wear a watch?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to tell the time, i'm guessing'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'fashion, convenience'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't let them put him in the cell with the kid with a toy gun.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'lawyers so they can charge by the second'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea if you need a timer for work, makes sense'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I kinda like this TSA story: http://tinyurl.com/d95ufcd'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dive watches too'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guess how many terrorists the TSA have stopped!!!'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'c'mon, we all know the answer with surety'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'that guy with the shoe-bomb?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all of the ones foolishly trying to get to the mainland.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the shoe bomb?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that the retard that the fbi used as a patsy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that the underwear bomber was a patsy put on the plane by security forces too, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think some terrorists just have a sense of humor and like practical jokes'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the shoe bomber probably made a bet with his mates that he'll get all yanks removing their shoes in airports'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and the underwear bomber wanted to beat that'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the underwear bomber knew nothing of what he was doing'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hasn't been a true terrorist attack on UK soil since the days of the IRA'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's besides the point'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't think of any in America, either'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'all he had to do was to have a bomb in his pants'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'when was the bus bomb in London?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which, ElFeneri?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i bet the next guy will put a small bomb in a cat or a dog. then even the pets will get cavity searches by the tsa'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'there was a bumb on a bus and some other place as well 5-10 years ago or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: '3 different bombs I believe'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2005, ElFeneri, wasn't a terrorist attack, or rather, wasn't the terrorist attack that the official story led everyone to believe'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'if that's not terrorism I don't know what is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you don't know what is'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Seems so.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it was a fluffy bunny bomb'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The leader of that cell was an MI6 asset, he was a double agent'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so at the very nicest, the attack happened as a result of epic incompetence on behalf of the intelligence services'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, much of the surrounding evidence suggests that the attack was allowed to go ahead, and both MI6 and Mossad have been implicated as being involved'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do -i- believe? probably a bit of both'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll might not ever know until it's declassified, and we may never know'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I guess alot of ppl would like to think that intelligence knew about it and let it happen for some political reason. Otherwise you would have to admit that your security ppl were outwitted by terrorists.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's always a danger dealing with double-agents and converts'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'generally though, terror is a tool used by governments and intelligence services to bring in a surveillance state, and justify endless slaughter of brown people'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'false flag or not, that's what it boils down to'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'left right, bush obama, makes no odds'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Francois Hollande should be banned. Discuss'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the only cost-control feature of Obamacare is the death panel, and if neither side likes the death panel is seems reasonable to assume it'll be repealed.  Which means healthcare will be free to go as high as it wants to.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'US men rank 83rd worldwide for highest average total cholesterol readings, US women rank 81st (both have an average of 197mg/dL, just shy of the borderline high range of 200-239).  Columbia tops the mens' list, with an average of 244, while Israel/Libya/Norway/Uruguay top the womens' chart with 232.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wonder how the heart attack rates correlate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would tie in with smoking rates and other - sedintary lifestyle atc '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'according to the article I got that from, Colombian men are at double the risk of a heart attack than US men.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'medical assistance and quality there of '
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'From what I have seen, all we have got is a weak correlaction between total cholesterol and heart disease, not much to write home about'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Unless, perhaps, you sell statins.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're trying to put statins in the water'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Put some more fluoride there first, and people won't complain too much? :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'in unrelated news, americans appear to be spending more calories than in the good old days when they were supposedly more active'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'either that or the calories in calories out thing doesn't quite work'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'where'd you see that?'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I just looked at estimates of total calorie intake compared to weight gain, from cdc, I think it was'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'strict cico doesn't appear to work except in funny theoretical models though'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or, rather, it works, but you have to track a larger number of variables than is usually done :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's true, since what you eat and how you eat can affect metabolism.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you're eating the same amount of calories as the next guy, but your intake keeps you revved up in high gear, you're going to burn through your intake supply much faster and thus use more from fat storage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'the science supports cico, outside of people with metabolic issues'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some foods are good for metabolism, some are bad.  Similarly, if you scarf your food down fast you can actually overstuff your stomach before it has a chance to tell the brain you're not hungry.  More and more of the chemical messages get dumped to the brain, making you feel sluggish while the body goes into metabolic-priority mode to deal with the backlog.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obviously, if you gain weight you somehow spent less calories than you took in and vice versa, but that has limited value when trying invidiual interventions, or explaining changes in large populations'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you stuff yourself with grains/sugar, your body is going end up trying to store more fat, pretty much whatever you do.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's also some research that suggests feeling either full or hungry is metabolically poor, since your body has to spend more time processing or go into conservation mode.'
T3/r7/2012-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although there is an enormous amount of money in people doing that :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'October 2012, the unemployment rate in north dakota dropped to 3.1 %, and it is .07 % in williston.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '6700 wells are producing oil on the Bakken right now, and it is expected to increase to 50,000 by 2035.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'So far EVERY well has produced oil on the bakken.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'So, is this just a news cast, or did you have something to debate? :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'news cast, I am bored. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Really R. Bigman playfully tackles Rizgoth.
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just talked to a waitress who makes $600 a night at a local bar. :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Seems fair, she has boobs after all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'especially considering there are about 50 men for every grown woman around here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'How did that happen? All the women moved to the big city, and all the men hang around to farm and fuck sheep?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'two assholes from oregon murdered a school teacher lady awhile ago....'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, oil and gas boomtown...the population tripled in 5 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the population of western north dakota, eastern montana will probably double or triple again in the next decade.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'So, young men move there to make a shitload of cash by working 16 hour days at an oil well?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'is that from that cracking thing ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'usually 12-14 hours a day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'burning tap water ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kinda hard to burn tap water when your drilling a well 10,000 feet down....and the water table is at 50 feet.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'i have seen tap water burn...'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure, and it was burning long before the fracking began also.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'natural gas disolved in the water table'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'because some water supplies have natural methane in it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'heh i'd like to see a neutral study of that (lmao never happen)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just a bunch of idiots trying to blame their moronic decision to buy land with bad water on oil and gas companies.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'you sound like an oil compant shill'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'you sound like an oil company shill'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh well, that is where the money is right now....no money in whining about things.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'true'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'money dictaes how things are done more than whiny left-wingers'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'i say that as a whiney left-winger'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am extremely liberal, and pro energy :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I believe in all forms of energy as long as it makes financial sense.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'as an american i understand your liberals to be equal to our conservatives (aussie)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How about zero-point energy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it makes financial sense to drill for oil in the bakken, since right now it costs about $30 a barrel to produce.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, american leftist liberal is our right-wing conservative'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 5 years it will cost about $20 a barrel to produce.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'LMAO Zero-point energy is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may have'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The Carnot cycle is limited - oil doesn't make sense as an energy source'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'LMAO Zero-point energy is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may have; it is the energy of its ground state. More at Wikipedia Perpetual motion Fringe physics Quantum field theory'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Abandonhope, we discovered it 100 years ago - the oil tycoons dismantled it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Which is why we're slaves to oil to this day'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'is it that the retarded "free energy" conspiracy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Called history, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, we use oil because it makes more sense to use oil and gas than anything else.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not my problem you're ignorant'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'haven't heard Tesla mentioned yet...'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rizgoth, take thermodynamics, then learn'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the Carnot cycle is limited'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'and tesla invented free energy transmitted in the air, also death rays'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, if respecting thermodynamics and laws of physics is ignorant...'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'tesla was a brilliant scientist, but don't forget that he was also batshit crazy'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Scientists since Tesla have reproduced it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'so was Fourier'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'around the world'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'newton was a nutbag, but no-ones disproved 2nd law yet'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not just talking about Wardenclyffe'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'our current world is dependant on an oil and gas based economy.....that is not going to change for a long time.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We're dependent on it because the tycoons eliminated the competition'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'newton dicsovered gravity trying to change lead to gold'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the time when he was talking about this mystical stuff he also a had a laser-eyed pigeon as a girlfriend'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'yes newton was nuts, thats know... he also invented calculus and thermodynamics'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides, our current oil and gas economy saved us from a new ice age, and many researchers are beginning to realize.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'tesla, not newton. maybe newton was nuts as well. dunno'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'leibniz also invented calculus '
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'yes both'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just know that we discovered an unlimited source of free energy 100 years ago, and they dismantled it to line their pockets'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'his notation was better then newton's'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is bs, all energy has a cost, even if it cost nothing to produce.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nothing is free.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'dosset got a reliable source ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the INTERNET!'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not a combustion cycle'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We form energy in the Carnot cycle by basically burning hydrocarbons in exothermic reactions'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the efficiency is limited by that'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'wait while i write a wikipedia page about ancient aliens and free power'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you don't even know how burning gas/oil works, you won't understand'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sorry you're over your head'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'dosset: proof... reputable sources'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You can bitch and moan about free energy and mythical power sources all you want, but a lot of people will be laughing all the way to the bank while you do, drilling for oil and gas for the next 50 years or more.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir snickers with DosseT about their shared secret.
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You think the edifice will last 50 years?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're delusional'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nice to hear that we have a way to break the laws of thermodynamics'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also, do you have a perpetual motion machine somewhere?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What laws are being broken?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'thermodynamics'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'explain'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the second'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are we doing the whole reality is an illuminati plot thing again?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'rizgoth my 'alternative' views are sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you don't "create" energy, you can only convert it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would love to see fusion power produce most of our energy needs, but that isnt going to happen for a very long time, not when we have such huge supplies of new oil and gas.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'in fact i poited out newton's 2nd law'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'huge is debateable'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Abandonhope braces for winter.
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even with $3.30 a gallon gas, the sales of electric cars in the US is down almost 75% across the board from 2 years ago.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'so wat about thorium ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'word on the street is we have 1000 years worth of thorium at current usage levels'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You dont think the bakken with 400 billion barrels of oil is not huge?  Or the eagle ford shale in southern Texas with 200 billion barrels, or the permian basin in west Texas with another 250 billion, plus a dozen more shale oil deposits spread all over the US is not huge ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'shale is expensive to extract'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://home.comcast.net/~onichelson/Thermodynamics2.pdf'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Rizgoth, once all that is taken over the corporations, what next?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'and put those barrels in perspective... how many barrels does the world use per year ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'a windfall, maybe, but myopic'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The bakken is producing oil at $30 a barrel right now, with 36 billion barrels of recoverable oil right now, and that number is growing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'canada tar sands is down to $22 a barrel to produce, and it has about 200 billion barrels of recoverable oil.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil is not a problem anymore for north america.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'one source says The US, on average, uses approximately 20 million barrels of oil a day, which basically is about a quarter of the worlds oil supply resulting in 25% of the worlds carbon emissions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is actually down to 18 million barrels a day now'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US has been lowering its oil use by about 6% a year for the last 5 years lately.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'so how long does that give us until oil runs out ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'better efficiency.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US only imports about 2 million barrels of oil per day from the middle east, and that is dropping fast.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'abandonhope, my country (estonia) gets something like 70-80% of energy from shale'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'we have fucktons of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'still id like to know how long current known reserves will last'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'cause even fuctons run out eventually'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods.
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, the US is blessed with shale oil and oil shale.....and conventional oil, and lots of heavy oil.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'shale oil is the bakken...oil shale is most of colorado and western montana, etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'well the heavy oil will be good for lubricants after petrolium has been replaced'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there is over 2 trillion barrels of oil shale under colorado.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilt:Production_of_oil_shale.svg'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'shale is expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'alaska has a huge 50 billion barrel heavy oil field just west of prudhoe bay, it currently produces about 20,000 barrels a day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'there will come a point when oil is so expensive only the military will use it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'not to far off...'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'maybe 20 years, maybe 50'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, the power here is one of the cheapest in europe and we produce 90% of our internal consumption'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Venezuela has a 200 billion barrel orinoco field of heavy oil also.....one of the largest in the world, if not the largest.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and afaik we have the best tech in the world for using shale'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'yeah thats known'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'but the thing is.... fucktons do run out... and not having a plan for when that happens is sad'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and we're going to build shale plants in the states'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US wont switch to thorium since we have nuclear weapons.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir raises an eyebrow at Rizgoth's weird actions.
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'why is thorium and weapons linked ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'why not? that was the original reason during the cold war afaik, but what about now?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's not'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That was the reason given by my nuclear engineering professor, during college.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'seems spurious'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that was the reason when they first started building nuclear plants. can't get plutonium from them'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but i'm quite sure you have enough bombs for now'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'texas says no'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'texas says no about what ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you better hope texas leaves the us ;)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the south will rise again and all that :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'texas say no to too many bombs'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'cant have too many'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas produces about 1.6 million barrels of oil per day......in 5 years that will double.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'The US, on average, uses approximately 20 million barrels of oil a day'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 5 years, north dakota will double to 1.2 million barrels a day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if california kicked out the morons, they could easily be producing 1 million barrels or more per day.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'heh hollywood makes too much cash to kick out'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska lost its chance of producing lots more oil after the bakken and shale oil in Texas exploded.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They took to damn long to get the natgas pipeline started, or opening new oil fields because of idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it didnt help that another 50 billion barrels of new oil has been found in the gulf of mexico in the last 10 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even with the BP oil rig explosion on that 8 billion barrel field in the gulf slowed down deep oil production for a couple years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'peak oil is a myth....there are trillions of new barrels out there.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'lol bad troll... oil reserves are finite'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'therefore peak oil will come, the debate is only over when'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, it won't because there's more than enough oil to wreck the planet with.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You want to know why peak oil is a myth ?  it is because of algae....a carbon neutral source of new oil for the future.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'technology will advance us beyond the need to drill for oil eventually.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'yeah well you could debate whether mankind will get thier act together or self-destruct'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We will create what we need.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'hope'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Oil will be the energy commodity of choice, because it is ubiquitous and acts as pretext to take over countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's not effective, and it's dirty, but gives a cover for imperialism'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'see the forest for the trees'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'thats short-medium term'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'artificial "fossil" fuels are only a question of how much energy you can produce by other means... developing those means should be a high priority'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'yep... more newtons 2nd law'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'fossil fuel is just chemically stored solar energy'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil will still be used long after our generation is dead.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no reason to stop using it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'and our generation is all that matters right ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'very myopic perspective'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'as long as I get mine, right'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Dont be an idiot, the next generations will keep using it also.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no reason, except that it'll kill a lot of us eventually unless we figure something out.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'so that justifies it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'some people can't see the forest for the trees (lol)'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'This is real life, not stargate atlantis, we dont use zero point modules to produce negative vacuum energy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and what do you know of real life?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you're just a cog in the wheel of the oil companies'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yea, I studied it in school too.  So what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so you go ahead and keep whining about it, we will keep using energy with a proven track record.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I must've missed the memo that said solar, wind, nuclear were fancy schmancy sci-fi things'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You'll maintain the status quo because you're too cowardly to do otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'i support causes i believe in, materially'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The space station does not burn fossil fuel... How can it possibly survive? We need oil to burn!'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '71% of parents regularly lie to their children to make their lives easier'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '41% of parents said they dislike their child'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'sick!'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's funny. I dislike 41% of all kids.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i dislike all of them, not my problem, yet im forced to deal with em anyway :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'they lie to their children to make their own lives easier or their childrens lives easier?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'got some fireworks coming up with the negotiation of the EU budget'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'lifes'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Dunno even a lie ment to protect someone can be pretty harmful'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'especially depending on the way it comes out :-p'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see herr uberfuhrer has been over in asia committing social faux pa's'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey declares Israel a terrorist state'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Geithner wants to lift the debt limit to infinity'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'The bankruptcy judge looks to be sitting Hostess and the Unions down for mediation...'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the point?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he wants to try and save 18k jobs, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what I can't figure out is, does that mean that he's not allowing the liquidation to go through?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think they can stop that'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think the judge can put a hold on it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, hard to make them re-open the doors, unless he's also gonna front them operating money'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, report on the tv. right now, maybe they'll say'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, either way, looks like both sides agreed to meet tomorrow'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so if they do come to an agreement, does that mean the union played their cards right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it'd depend on whether that agreement is better or worse than the one they walked out on'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, good point'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'at this point, hostess could just say "sorry, we lost hundred million on your walkout, we can't even offer what we did before"'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't see what the big deal - the business isn't viable anymore so they're liquidating'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, from what I can tell, Hostess seems like an all around cluster.  To me it looks like it's been horribly mismanaged and the unions have forced an extreme case of inefficiency on the company.  It's hard to be profitable in that situation'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to do with the unions, unless the unions want to buy it up'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'car manufacturer unions did the same thing to the UK in the 70s, basically ensured the destruction of the industry, all the jobs went to japan'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not a car nut, but it seems to me that the quality of the cars in the u.k. saw a major decline at that time'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'of course, you could probalby argue the same for hostess'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd been shit for a while'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'two words...lucas electronics'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the extent of my knowledge of British cars comes from what I've seen on Top Gear'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unions refused to allow car plants to mechanise'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it would erode jobs'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, and it looks like the bakers union was doing the same in this case, they forced inefficiency through their contracts, which is going to erode profits'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if they don't agree, the jobs might go to Mexico'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which would be an interesting dynamic, not to mention, It's Bimbo Bakeries that seems to be interested'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which means I could go to the store and get some Bimbo Ho-Hos'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Justin Bieber was crowned Aritst of the Year at hte American Music Awards last night. And the AMAs have officially become irrelevant.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the music industry is driven by 13 year old girls, what did you expect'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, the AMAs are decided by a public poll and through music sales. It all makes sense. Still bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh yeah, I don't disagree, it's just people will act shocked about it'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't know the AMA was voted on by the public and through music sales. I thought it had an actual academy or at least voting members.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And if an actual academy of eligible voters had voted Bieber as Artist of the Year, I would be shocked.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but even awards that have academies are sometimes fairly suspect when you look at who are voting members'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'course, I guess i'm just kind of a cranky, introvert,so..'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Form Aldehyde: 'man shaves legs... hot? or not?'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't think it's hot, but then again, I'm not into guys'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Form Aldehyde: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, I don't think my wife would find me shaving my legs as hot, either'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I tried shaving a girl's legs - not hot'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, my wife scares me when she shaves her legs'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like, when I shave my face, I'm kind of slow and deliberate'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'she goes at it like she's reaping wheat or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no one has responded for 5 minutes, that means I won the debate channel'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'music industry has been used as a blunt propoganda tool for a couple of decades now, Bieber isn't a surprise, only need look at the takeover of MTV in the laste 80s and more recent guided crap like X-Factor, and music-industry 'manufactured talent' like Lady Gaga'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I actually think Lady Gaga has some talent'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'don't really like her music, but I do think she has some talent'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not really the problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know, but I couldn't really disagree with the rest'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rarely anyone can'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'humility has always been your strong point'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'humility is lost when people are frothing like lunatics at you'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless I'm misinterpreting "stacking" and you mean "Input a command and then have a bunch of triggers to automatically stack a bajillion commands to do X-thing".'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan. For some reason.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Like, I have a key to stack 7 attackskills because I don't feel like typing in "gouge" and then pressing enter a bajillion times each battle. That's pretty much the only way I stack commands.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The TP Aura help file specifies that it's available as a rare Daily Blessing. The Trivia Sleeping Bag's help file does not.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I need to stop mischanning this channel.'
T3/r7/2012-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'That's because it isn't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'rock /paper /scissors / anyone ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'y not ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i'm wearing a shirt that says "Rock is dead - long live paper and scissors"'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy whats the latest bee in the bonnet ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would agree that POP music is really F'd up'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, the government and corporations need braindead teenagers, so it's just power for the cause'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have been exposed to 2 decades of radio and I still think the best music (with some exceptions ) is from at least 30 yrs ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'back then it was still mostly a live performance scene'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd say 30-50 yrs ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well you have that over me - I was not even thought of 3 decades ago '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so? you still have access to the music of that age'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have seen the Wal tour thrid party - ever been to a decent rave ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not my scene, i'm too decrepit to go to most live music these days'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'went to a big festival a couple years back because i went with a disabled friend, couldn't have gone on my own and not had access to the disabled area'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can only imagine a white supremacist concert or a rave is close to a Pink Flyod or Iron Maiden concert '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'what festival?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sonisphere'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'iron maiden were headlining, ironically'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'ah UK festival'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, european, was in the UK, but it travels europe'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Up the Irons !'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was a bit too family friendly and trendy for me, tbh'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'the family friendly festivals are the best imo. There's too much craziness at the drug fueled rage festivals'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'security searching people on entry to the arena for food, drink and other banned stuff'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'force people to buy the insanely expensive food and drink inside'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just dose up b4 u go in ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's what we did, but you get hungry and thirsty if you're there for 8 hours'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'bring E's n water .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, won't touch anything like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'are you in love atm Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'OK when you are - 5 M ritual or  just ritual F... - plan it beforehand - coke and or E - best time !'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tantra ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot of that stuff from India and the tibet is thanks to a certain hemp-like plant'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just designating the experience is enough to level it imo - practice not required '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ur male - fritction n visual only ?  <-- notice the ? - there is so much more - esp when peaking on E/coke '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'life is a 5 sense Art '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tell u a secret though - having tasted the best fruit  makes fruit encountered in mundane life ... not worth it .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'longer term it is but just for the experience - nah - '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ever participated in a ritual Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'athiest ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spiritual, i guess you'd say'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'your spiritual practices include ? thought - meditation - research ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'trolling debate when he should be working :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't go as far as research, but i take an interest in religions'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'none of the above I guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, i'm off sick today dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they got fed up with me coughing, hacking and dying at work yesterday'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dag I am a willing participient in this '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm only answering your questions, hardly trolling :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy familiar with Jung ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you've been mild today, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the psychiatrist and all round nutjob?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'thats the one '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in ur poking round in diff beliefs you find any patterns ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know much of his work, but i do know that psychiatry has these days become a bit of a quack science'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'don't you mean psychology?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you like Starwars ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'psychology != psychiatry'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the two are not the same, but are inevitably linked'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no but original q? - did you find patterns in diff religions ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on what you mean by patterns, religion development does seem to stem from the need or desire to impose authority and control of people, and looks like that starts with benevolence in mind'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'invariably becomes tyrannical'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or explain the unexplained'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in every religion there are 2 streams of .. not dogma but close .. but whay you describe is the massses dogma '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the path or learning for priests is different - commonly called mysticism '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'xtianity n gnosis for  exxample'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the origins of Islam bear absolutely no resemblance to modern Islam as practiced in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah reg trolls will have a field day with that statement but conveys a point to Yuo I think ''
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'similar with xianity'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we both know there  are at least 2 levels of society and the base level Loves rules and seeing them enforced .. agree ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well as an element of social engineering  - religion is that for those who still practice  '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government and media are the control these days, religion is being snuffed out because it's a competitor'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which explains US foreign policy, and also liberals' war on religion at home'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they follow the same forms that religion has done in the past  yeah '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'everry religon has a second path - close to the "free thinker" that dismisses the current regieme '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that path also has patterns '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'liberals' war on religion in the us? lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'again - drain - The End - unless you ask me a q? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dag phrase that as a drect question pls ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably more accurate to say it's a war against non-government approved organisations, dag'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot of churches were conned into joining government officially recognised charity status for the money that went with it, not realising all the regulation and control that they would be subjected to as a result'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'looks like a retaliation against religious nuts who are at war against science and personal freedoms'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'similar thing happened in the UK, so guess what? Charities and charitable groups couldn't do the work they used to do, so they then had to have governments do it, which costs MONEY'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's bunkem, dags'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't know what that word means'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"nonsense"!'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no you don't get it  - formalized though/ideals are done so for the masses - there is another school of though - another pattern '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, can you give us some examples how religion is targeted by a war in the states?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've just given you one, dagnir'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that constitutes a war?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's a concerted program, it could be described as such'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'dare to elaborate?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the lower / mass form of ideals will war , yes '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure what you're looking for'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the plight of some religious nuts is that their children have to learn science at school'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'all science is good'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, war implies that there are two sides and there are aggressive measures used against at least one side'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well... yes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and i'm asking for examples'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i've already given you at least one'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'your charity claim doesn't really sound like a "liberals' war against religion"'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not liberals per-se, it's governments in general'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ok, so what about states that want to teach creatonism and ban abortions and stem cell research?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ugh train wreck theatre .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'creationism should be taught in RE classes wrt to xianity'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'does noone else get what I am trying to say ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'teaching abstinence as sex ed and so on'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no, tza. you seem to be high'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's wrong with teaching abstinence as part of sex ed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what, talking about those guys who receive govt tax benefits but who'd rather complain about the restrictions than just refuse the tax benefits again?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir hides his face in his palm after seeing what Tigernuts did.
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's just plain fucking wrong'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a state wants to ban abortions, then fine. I don't like abortions and think they should be legal prior to 16 weeks, but should be discouraged'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the same guys who complain about people destroying fertilised eggs, but for which crippling children's minds in certain ways is not only okay, but desirable?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah .. I'm damn drunk - not doing the argument any favours bessdies observing problems in telling it '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'religious people who actually understand the value of religion would not want to cripple childrens minds in any way, let alone think it desirable'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I know just from the advancement of the social dynamic more work needs to be done on grounding the basics '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'most of the stuff extremist republicans say would be a political suicide here'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then there is no war on "religion" in that definition'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy .. almost right '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's just partisan and silly, Sonshi, likewise for the extremist stuff any political bent comes out with'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'free hugs ? anyone ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'extremist silly stuff is extremist silly stuff, regardless of which political puppet camp you sit in'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ban abortions - political suicide. get rid of free healthcare - political suicide. only abstinence in sex ed - political suicide'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you have tribalism in politics which means nothing can ever be discussed without demonisation, which also means concensus or compromise can never happen, only conflict'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's not about politics. it's about how people feel about these things here'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's the fact that most voters would never vote for you if you came out with anything like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether it's -about- politics is irrelevent, that's the lines upon which it divides'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'actually hooking up welfare n birth control is an interesting platform ... " we support you , how can you suppport a child" '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'to pretend that truth and justice does not favour any one side - not even a little - puts you squarely on the other side...'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm for a mild eugenics program. i would be happy to support the poor and stupid with my tax money, but only if they use birth control and don't breed'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're sounding a bit like Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Starling lives !'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are those who don't pretend to know, at least...'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and condoms should be tax-free. shit's expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can get em free here, doesn't stop people breeding'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'your insistence on claiming false equivalency shows where you stand.'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'false equivalence?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'pills are sold with a heavy discount if you're insured (almost everyone is)'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dole chque = pill I'd vote for ... if I voted '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"maybe the world is flat, maybe the world is roundish or such... shucks, I don't know, they're the same to me." bah.'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said that, you were talking about abortion and creationism'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'creationism is bullshit. simple as that'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there's no scientific argument there. period.'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol so far from the origin of the deb ..... take the pill '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'creationism has nothing to do with science, hence it should be part of religious education'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it shouldn't be part of any education. at least not state-funded'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'religious education should be a part of ALL education'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and should cover all the major religions'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their origins'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it actually got demolished in the court. that's why it's called "intelligent design" nowdays'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'religious EDUCATION. not crazy religious misinformation'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'religious organisations ought to be stripped of their tax status... no reason to keep funding them. Separate their religious function and their genuine charitable functions if you have to... no reason to subsidise preaching.'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's fine provided you also strip out the regulation that charitable status inflicts on them'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why would they be subject to that regulation if they're no longer a charity?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi walks around in the room, looking very confused.
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK you have to be a registered charity in order to be able to get involved in certain volunteer-type acitivies'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(on a non-individual basis)'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same is true, afaik in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much anything, it's to do with insurance and health/safety laws'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, like corporations can't get involved in those things?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're subject to the same laws'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so why not subject these private entities to the same laws as other private entities?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why should they be privileged?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's expensive, both monetary and in terms of time'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're suggesting nobody should be able to help anyone because the governments' regulations?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so why should the state subsidise their avtivities if they aren't charities?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they shouldn't have to'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then what? i told you -why- many churches signed onto government charity status'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'free them from the beurocracy and the probably wouldn't have bothered'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we live in a blame culture'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what exactly are those crippling regulations that stop them from helping people, btw?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're free to be subject to the same regulations as any non charities...'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and if they want to set up a charity, they're free to be subject to the same regulations as other charities'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've already told you, insurance, health and safety, and have already  told you that theis regulation costs money'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're getting a much better deal than that, currently'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think we should free the banks from bureaucracy and let them help people. *nod self'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the one complaining about churches having charitable status'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so you think they're special because...?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'churches typically tend to be community resources'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'historically they provided spiritual, physical, and financial support to the needy in their congregation'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said earlier that their role has been supplanted by government over the last 100 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so? Shouldn't the govt help the people?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's a question of ideology'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, govt of the people for the people by the people is just ideology, but...'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably a more useful question is: Who is best able to help the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's something that people have chosen for themselves...'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would argue, personally, that central government is least best equipped for this job'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that communities and families are best equipped for this job'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and people themselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because that's working out so well in the us, huh...'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with the ideology, but a whole host of other reasons'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the opposite position is also failing in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'back - should sleep'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone wanna tuck me it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'oops mic chann'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so the rich should be allowed to take care of their own and screw the poor, and help only those who believe in their ideology, those who do not speak against them, and those who have good relationships with them. okay. Good for you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not what I said'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cannot be implied from what I said, either'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's the natural result of leaving things to small organisations unanswerable to the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'among church groups, libraries, reading rooms, trade unions and other establishments grew out of impoverish industrial communities in the UK in the 1800s, had nothing to do with wealth, in fact, it had more to do with the lack of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'disagree, huh... haven't you noticed the wide array of causes that the rich donate to, tax-free?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i had noticed it, and the media portays it as good, and yet it's just so they can pay less tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in particular, a new shiny cathedral isn't "charity", and there's no reason why it should be free from tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're demonising a whole sector of community-groups because the buildings they use are stylised and dedicated?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they are always free to set up a separate organisation like the salvation army or somesuch, which does purely charity work, and abides by regulations ensuring that tax-exempt money doesn't go to line someone's pockets or goes to pay for some other thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why should they?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and what part of it is demonising them if they get the same treatment as any other group that wants to build a shiny new building?'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their religious belief is what motivates them'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're demonising them because they -do- get treated the same'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'aha, here we go... you're demonising us by treating us the same as those infidels!'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the one who made the statement, paraphrasing "Why should we subsidise the building of cathedrals?"'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not I'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good news! France stripped of AAA credit rating'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'that IS good new. I think you should do a global restore to celebrate!'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is beyond my power'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'all you need is 2 tps'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'how is that good news'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's FRANCE'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm from the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'you're still not really clarifying how this is good news'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a cultural thing, the british hate the french in the same way that the canadians hate the quebecese, or the republicans hate gays, or the democrats hate -everybody-'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I don't have the quebecois'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'hate*'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though in other news, the spokesman for India's ruling Congress party, apparently, is called Sandeep Dikshit'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'oh man'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course you don't, it's a stereotype'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'lol sandeep, that's hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it's both sand, and deep!'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'hahahahahahahahahhahahahaahhaa'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can probably get you a good deal if you switch your ISP though'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're flying from USA this week, it's national tsa opt out and film week '
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for those fb minded, here's the event page for it: http://www.facebook.com/events/140941596049319/'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haven't vetted that, not on facebook'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only silver lining is that property should hold steady rather than increase, and oil/fuel prices will be roughly static'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't like the sound of that news headline: "Senate bill lets feds read your email"'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though we know now that they do that, legal or not'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Student expelled for refusing location tracking rfid badge'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact that they offered to allow her to wear an id with the battery and chip removed just proves that it's got nothing to do with student safety'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a lot of new news tonight, more police brutality/stupidity after woman suffers heart attack after being tased 3 times during a traffic stop'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'record number of americans will use food stamps this thanksgiving (that was a given, must be a slow news day)'
T3/r7/2012-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the only biggie: Senate bill lets feds read your email'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wish certain people would watch this interviwe with G Edward Griffin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wijCPxhaZ_M&feature=BFa&list=UUl0T0SKaV5rJU81F_QUCakw'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something that can be helped by a jolly good old fashioned lynching'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops, mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A recent hearing sponsored by the Treasury and Labor Departments marked the beginning of the Obama Administrations effort to nationalize the nations pension system and to eliminate private retirement accounts including IRAs and 401k plans, NSC is warning.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't sound good'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, here in the UK you're not allowed to have a pension worth shit, what makes Americans think they should be allowed to save for their old age? </sarcasm>'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'Canada has a nationally run pension program that works great, as well as governmentally sponsored retirement savings - we still allow private pension systems though'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'removing that doesn't seem to make sense'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'and I suspect it's editioralization'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here in the UK they taxed the hell out of private pensions a few years back, and have the system set up such that if you're in the 1% you'll get a decent pension. If you're not, then now matter how much you save up, you'll be no better off than someone who didn't bother'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'well that sucks'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem with the pension system is that it's based on the notion that investment produces return'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'Canada's pension/retirement programs are taxed at the same rate as normal income'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a famous stuffed dog advertising insurance would say: ohhhHHHhh yesh!'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'seems like a nice idea, except that it's wrong -- the returns that you used to get, youdon't anymore'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'IRAs have been expanded in scope in all recent years, don't foresee that changing anytime soon'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'hence the pension system is basically stuffed'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'you can still expect a reasonable return on investment swalec'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the question is how do we, as a society, ensure that all members of our society have a reasonable standard of living'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'you don't need 10% a year for saving to be worth-while, you just need to match inflation'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, you need to greatly exceed inflation'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Averan, you can expect what you like, but don't mean you is going to get it. I have a pension. I have no belief that it is going to be worth anything when i am supposed to collect it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, the source is a bit of a panic-site, but there are references to real meetings from real organisations and real governmental people there, so there's going to be some truth in it, even if it doesn't come to pass'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/government-sets-its-sights-on-private-retirement-accounts-designed-to-grab-the-retirement-nest-eggs-of-americas-senior-citizens_11202012'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you don't increase savings by matching inflation'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abe's right, you only protect the real terms value by matching inflation, and even then it probably won't because the government headline rate of inflation is artificially low and has been since the early 80s'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'What about the inflation rates calculated by seperate independent scientific groups that match ?  artificially low lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem, Tigernuts, is that over the last 20 years, the distribution of resource has changed so radically, that now a very large part of the population cannot hope to save for their retirement'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'exacerbated by increased requirement for savings because of the change in life expectancy'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'but wages have continued to grow over the past 20 years, and the idea that they've gone down is just wrong'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rate of inflation is not a scientific law, however the living standards of the average american -have- dropped by around 66% since 1968, studies show'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'averan, compared to what? especially, given that a lot of wage increase have ben on the back of debt'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but typically inflation rates don't include a wealth of things like insurance'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'from a economic point of view, there's no reason why savings should have a positive real rate of return. It all depends on the economy...'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a perfect world there'd be no inflation and the price of everything would remaind roughly static, so you wouldn't need to worry'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'even now if you have a large pool of money, you can expect a very respectable rate of return'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and money would grow on trees and goods are manufactured by robots and provided freely. sure.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'that's the whole point of a national pension program'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you shouldn't expect that unless you're naive, Averan'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'huh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think generates the return in pensions?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'investments in business'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yeah, stock markets typically'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and when stock market declines, what do you think happens to those investments?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'without inflation, when the equilibrium real rate of return is negative, the economy would start to stall and shake it self to pieces trying to push up the inflation rate'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'properly diversified with a lare enough pool of money, very little'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'unless there's a huge complete and utter crash'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You fall to the floor laughing at Averan's remark.
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wow. just wow.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds like "we haven't considered the possibility because it's unlikely therefore it MUST be bad" Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though I guess inflation of some sort is inevitable'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'the CPP continued growth straight through the economic crash'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it dipped one year, and regained it all the next'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've failed to account for all the debt in the system'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I have no idea what you mean'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given that the US economy has exceeded the pre-crisis peak in real terms, having a positive return in the us is not too surprising'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a real reason why some of the very richest people are coming out of the markets and investing in tangibles such as land and precious metals'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'try finding positive real rates in greece...'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there's also a reason why they're not telling everyone'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'sonshi: I admitted that, I said if there was a real crash then you're fucked.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I mean you can just bury your money in the ground in the back if you'd rather, but then it depreciates in value'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pretty much. But equilibrium rates can vary and go below 0 under certain circumstances, is my point.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's the real world best case scenario at the moment, Averan: Western governments manage to hold onto things and sort it out through a couple of decades of relatively high inflation - net result people's savings and real terms living standards decrease significantly (33-50%)'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not necessarily'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'worst case is the debt bubble bursts and the situation rights itself by means of a crash that will make 1930s look like a cakewalk'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's inevitable, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'inflation is accompanied by labout cost increases'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'labour'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there won't be one'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if managed well enough, standards of living will be unaffected. Pre-crisis paper wealth, however, will fall.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if there was, nothing will change and therefore it wouldn't be fixed'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'living standards are already falling'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'do you have some kind of source showing that'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'just genuinely curious'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'google it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stuff like "real terms income in UK lowest since" or similar'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'oh you're talking about the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as a thought experiment, if you add a 0 to every flow, the standard of living, production, etc. will remain unchanged, real asset prices will be largely unaffected, but debt will be reduced by a factor of 10, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm talking about the UK, but it applies also to the USA and most of western europe'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there will be interim effects, certainly, but how long those last depends on govt effectiveness'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that wouldn't work, sonshi, everything you buy in will become 10x as expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but everthing you get paid in is also 10x more...'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'your bank account will decrease 10x though... but so will your debt (if any). It's horribly redistributionary, but what can you do?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what can you do? not make the debt in the first place, or sort it out by getting a grip'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'finding no evidence of any kind of reduction in standard of living in america'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how are you going to do that? Hold a gun to people's heads?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'and it's gone up massively since the 60's'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'so even if there was a bit of decline in the past few years, still 50% up on how we lived in the 60's'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hmm, seems that the annual reports for CPP disagree with the notion that it's been investment-positive...'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no usury! Arrest the moneylenders? Stone them? Is that it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I was just looking at then, they dibbed in the crash, and then recovered the next year'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'dipped*'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm looking at multiple years of losses'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'link?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'lost 257M in 08, lost 23.5B in 09'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/isp/pub/cpp/pubcpptoc.shtml'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I stand corrected'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it has since recovered though and is doing well'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'unlike a lot of the non-national pensions in america which were completely wiped out'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the canadian budget has recent changes "introduced measures to ensure that the Old Age Security (OAS) program remains on a sustainable path."'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'to me, that doesn't sound like "we're doing fine, investments are hunky-dorey"'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'which was my point in favour of a national pension program, if it's government managed and run the government can back it up to ensure people have their pensions to retire on'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'which was started this whole thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think I saw somewhere that life expectancy at retirement age is decreasing for lower income workers in the us'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's the point of social security in the US, not of a national pension program'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'partly because of increasing retirement age'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Webster Tarpley covers it a lot in his works. If you want to know what's going on, check out JP Holdren's book "Ecoscience"'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'the changes to CPP is that Canada is raising the age of retirement'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but we've had social security for like 90 years and see where it gets us'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'which is mostly a response to the massive imabalance in young and old in the country'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as did social security'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taxes for the us retirement program thingy (SS) seems to be too low'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Handy talk covering it all here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GFmxYcIp1k&feature=BFa&list=UUl0T0SKaV5rJU81F_QUCakw'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'sonshi: average life expectancy of the young generation is projected to go down for the first time in a century or so, because of problems with obesity'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but the fundamental issue is not the imbalance between old and young...the fundamental issue is that investment of the old person's money before they were old are *NOT* sufficient to pay their pension'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that's where your "you only have to keep up with inflation" is flawed'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK national insurance scheme for pensioners is a ponzi scheme'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always was'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our version has a pay-in of 20-40% of base income, I think, can't remember the figures'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the financial backing for it assumed 100% employment for 40 years and a life expectance of 67'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'actually the CPP isn't a fully-funded dollar in, dollar out pension program, it's looking to pay out more than it takes in'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then it's a ponzi scheme, Averan'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even without a positive real return, it's still enough to avoid a huge drop in standard of living'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that alone doesn't make their scheme a ponzi scheme'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one of the conditions of a ponzi scheme is that it's unsustainable'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'how is it a ponzi scheme?  It's just pooling the resources of all Canadians to make a higher rate of profit than they could ever make on their own investing'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a scheme is designed to always pay out more than it has payed in, then it IS unsustainable and is a ponzi scheme by definition'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'what no'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it earns huge amounts of money every year'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no, that does not make it unsustainable'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it pays out more to pensioners than it takes in from them, by earning more than inflation every year'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'so the absolute amount of money in the pool increases'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'not sure why that's hard to grasp... lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'whether or not it is actually unsustainable depends on demographics, future expansion, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's fine while it's making a profit'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also fine provided government doesn't suddenly take a gigantic authoritarian 'bite' out of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and just because it's not fully funded in nominal terms doesn't mean it isn't fully funded in real terms...'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently.
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is what the original link posted said might happen, which has already happened in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are you complaining that it isn't fully funded, then complaining that they might make it fully funded by cutting it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and assuming nothing happens in the market to wreck it, such as happened with 10s of thousands of Equitable Life pension customers in the UK who had their entire private pensions wiped out by corruption'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'did you just simultaneously say that the market wrecked their pensions, and corruption wrecked their pensions?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm saying that just because it's doing better than inflation now is no guarantee it always will, and it doesn't preclude government nabbing it, or corporations ruining it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'effectively both in that specific case, averan'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a rock might fall on my head if I walk out of the door. I should stay here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though generally UK private pensions got attacked with a tax hatched by Gordon Brown when he was in charge'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'no corporation has access to it, how would that happen lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, what's it invested in?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'you keep comparing the situations of private pensions to national pensions'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's invested in the markets, it's vulnerable to them'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and whether private or national, it' vulnerable to actions of government'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it's about 60-40 canadian bonds and stock?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i agree, national pensions are likeely to be safer'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I would check, but I'm tired of this conversation tbh'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not safer investment-wise'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unless they're borrowed from, like has happened in some us states'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'canada is a bad example, but take UK or USA, if it's bonds - what happens if the government can't pay the bonds?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'merely more easily bailed out'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'tigernuts, I already conceded that if there's a complete crash then yes, everything will dissapear'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'if you would rather bury your money in your backyard, go nuts'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, like i have money'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's more an argument for diversifying your retirement than doing something stupid'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prepare for yourself, don't rely on government or private pensions'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, buried in the backyard would've done better than most diversified over the past 6 years ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't mean don't have those things, just don't count on them'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but over the last 100 years it still is historically the best option'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'too bad we don't live 150 years then }:>'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'although, seriously, that'd put even more strain on the system'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though I'd imagine it'd eventually stabilize'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'not if we could work for the majority of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exactly.
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'people earn more, and contribute more as they move further in life'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'although, everything else staying the same, you'd have an increase in population above the rate of increase that is currently going on, at least for awhile'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but that's more academic than anything else'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'other than cases of early disability, the system really can be broken down into "does John Quimby put in more <and get more investment from> than he collects"'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'not many people group before level 100 or so'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there must be enough cushion beyond that to handle the disability cases, but that might be able to be mitigated by the pre-retirement deaths'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'interestingly enough, there's a huge decrease in birth rates in a bunch of developed nations, so they're going to have to deal with some pretty interesting situations in the next 30-50 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'razkin: birth rate drops massively, we need low-level workers and we still hate immigration lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'low-level workers for what, exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'working fields, that kind of shit'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, that depends on where you're talking about'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for all the manufacturing jobs you don't have?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'world always needs ditch-diggers'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'janitors, stockboys'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since mechanisation, it needs very few'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you'd be surprised, tiger'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'drywallers, painters, etcetc'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'any skillless, low paying job'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't have enough of those for the population already, dunno what makes you think it would be a problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well all of this started by talking about retirement, at least at the point that I logged in, and my point is that a lot of these nations are going to see a lot more stress on the retirement systems and health care systems relatively soon'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'looking at places like Japan, and it's going to be even more exagerated in some countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, raz, and the UK's is already screwed'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'there's also going to be a huge shortage of certain kinds of labour'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'big, pushes to raise the birth rate in some places, with very little success'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'also a skill labour gap, as all the boomers retire'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree with the skills gap herein the UK, Averan, but not the skillless'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'well man I don't really know the situation over there'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'so you can't just assume what I'm saying applies'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2.5mn officially unemployed, the genuine figure is closer to 5'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, but you can look at what's happeninging in other areas and at least try and draw some conclusions as to what might happen here'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'especially as you watch those other countries try and deal with it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'sure razkin, but I was talking about specific situatiosn that we're dealing with'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only reason tehre'd be a shortage of casual or unskilled labour is if you were paying more in welfare than they can make doing the work (which is what happens in the UK)'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well sure, I mean, I am talking more general myself'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'and tigernuts disagreed with them based on the situation there (in the UK) as though that had any bearing'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they get paid the welfare because of the high cost of living, so the merrygo-round continues'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you seriously saying there's a shortage of unskilled labour in teh USA?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I'm talking specifically about Canada, but I've heard it's mirrored in america as well'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'there's a lot of jobs on farms in the interior of the continent, but no one wants them'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are the 12-odd million unemployed doing if there's an unskilled labour shortage? :_)'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'they don't want the jobs'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'waiting for a higher-paying job'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then the situation is identical to the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so your two options are: bring in cheap labour from abroad, or pay more'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from experience here, option 1 isn't sustainable'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but the same people that don't want the job themselves...scorn the immigrant labor ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or you could not be a greedy git and offer to pay more. I'm not talking about small businesses that aren't doing well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm talking about major corporations whining about having to pay more than minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'well a lot of these unwanted jobs do pay a pretty reasonable living, they're just undesirable'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still, the idiots who whine about not being able to find a job but shun low-paying jobs and then hate immigrants for "taking those jobs" are themselves idiots.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mark it on your calendars, folks, I agree with Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'eg there's a fish packing factory near me that pays $18/hr to start, but no one wants to work there'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'and there's constantly openings'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd do it'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck is wrong with people 18 bucks an hour?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's more than i get now as a programmer'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, it's half my last salary ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is it a 9 to 5, 5 days a week job?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'the factory is open 24/7, so it's not necessarily 9 - 5'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'but you're getting 40+ hours a week'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The fuck is wrong with people? That's 720 bucks a week.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the sort of job i'd prefer to do 12hrs a day 3 days a week'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Approximately 3240 a month. There are plenty of "legit" jobs that require years of education that pay less, even beyond entry level salaries.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'tiger: a lot of similar places here do 10 days on 10 days off'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tbh, yuna, the system makes it tough...'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'it's a hard job in shitty work conditions, I don't think many people would last as long as they think they would'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The system makes it tough for people to work in fish factories?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even in my job, i could get a job doing 16hrs a week at minimum wage locally and be little worse off'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole system is rotten'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for many people on unemployment, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'this is in Canada though, we weren't hit as hard by the crash'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'so your fish factories may be less well paying'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Canda was sensible an retrenched their economy in the early 90s, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'also Vancouver is a really wealthy city'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while everyone else was running up their credit cards like it was crack'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, this is priceless.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'well credit card debt isn't what led to the crash lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm looking at a map of minimum wage levels in the U.S. right now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know what i mean, averan, government spending out of control'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not credit cards literally'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'that's not what did it either'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when on unemployment, stuff you make is deducted from your unemployment,so you work more but don't benefit from that work, and the working can interfere with trying to find a job in your correct field'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'there's no buffer on unemployment there?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how much of earnings are deducted, and whether there's a "grace" amount, etc, varies by state'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'you're allowed to work a moderate amount in addition to your unemployment in Canada'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'not on welfare though'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's pretty much a Red vs. Blue map. Every single Blue states has a Minimum Wage level equal to or greater (with the vast majority of Blue states having a MW HIGHER than that) than the federal minimum wage while every single states that's got a minimum wage lower than that of the federal level is a Red state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so yes, there's generally a buffer, but can't get into details as each state is different'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Well, my state is kind of purple, so I suppose it makes sense that it's the same as federal minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some states don't even HAVE minimum wage laws. WTF?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'what is the federal minimum wage?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but between the reduction and the time constraint, it makes it harder to take crap jobs temporarily'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And they're all in the Bible Belt.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't live in a state, the minimum wage is largely irrelevent as it's not the problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '$7.25/hr, I believe'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fedel minimum wage level: For tipped workers: $2.13, Non-tipped workers: $7.25'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, no state doesn't have minimum wage law, as all states are under federal minimum wage'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'so low'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, like...$7.24 in canadian money :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they just don't have an expressly-their-own min wage law, it's not that they don't enforce a min wage'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, I get it. If a state doesn't have a minimum wage law, it automatically follows federal minimum wage laws.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'federal applies to all 50 states'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And to DC!'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's the name of that really fat, evil hag who was whining about how she was being forced to pay minimum wage laws to her workers and wishing they'd be abolished so she could pay them peanuts? She's a billionaire.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'states can choose to be more strict with a higher one'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder how many businesses start at minimum wage'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh, I remember that'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't that in australia?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'wasn't she from australia or something?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'dunno who that is, yuna...I'd imagine she'd just move offshore'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She's FROM Australia, but I think she own businesses in the U.S. I could be wrong, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably owns them worldwide'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Lol. Found her by googling "Australia minimum wage woman".'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I want to say she took over a business, if i recall correctly, from her father'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's what chinese prepubescent girls are for'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'isn't Australia's minimum wage really low'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was slightly off. She was talking about Australia's mimimum wage, which is $2.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK minimum wage is $10 an hr, btw'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what is $2AUS in $US?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Australia minimum wage looks to be $15/hr, much higher than in the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Her name is Gina Rinehart.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all very well quoting minimum wages, but cost of living does differ significantly'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, apparently she was talking about under-the-table dealings. "Africans want to work.  Its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day."'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, inherited a mining company from her father'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rofl, even worse, she runs mines'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She was saying that Australians should be more like AFricans and accept $2 per day wages.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So she can afford, you know, that 29 billionth hoagie.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't that depend on what $2 per day will buy you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In Australia? Half a sandwich.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, 1/4th of a sandwich. It's AUSD, after all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully you get the point, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sally struthers tells me that I can feed a family of 5 in africa on $2'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$10/hr here would be work $12/hr in scotland, maybe $15 or $20/hr in the middle of nowhere USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But she wasn't talking about Africa. She said Africans were willing to work for $2 a day, so Australians should be willing to work for close to that little.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Huh, if you hire people under 16 in australia, you only have to pay them about a third of minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'She was whining about the minimum wage in Australia being too high, wanting it lowered significantly. Because, you know, working in mines is so fucking glamourous people should be happy to be paid below-minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'To be fair, if minimum wage got raised to $15/hr in the US, there would be a hundred thousand people just like her here'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the... apparently Jabba the Hutt (Rinehart) is also locked in a bitter dispute with her 3 adult children over a foundation set up by her father for his grandchildren. Why the FUCK is she fighting them? It's not HER money.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '$15 AUSD is NOT close to being the same thing as $15 USD.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'sure it is'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '$15 aussie dollars = $15.53 USD'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait... apparently. When the fuck did this happen?'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just a few years ago, the AUD was worth half of what the USD was worth.'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'so was the canadian dollar :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lowest it has been in the last few years was over .6'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'during the crisis'
T3/r7/2012-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when the sky was falling, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'ultranerds socially inept yet and super sensitive what a combo '
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tizar: 'Open Forum: Election is over. now we are into the holidays? time to vent if you like them or dont. Lets get something started.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope you're all having a good fake-holiday'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ambulance chasing!'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mashes his buzzer button and answers with "What are tricks to teach a pet shark?"'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'aim laser beam'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is gambling prevented by the constitution?'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which constitution?'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where will you get your pointless shit from if you have a bust up with china?'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm all for building shit in the country you sell it, becoming self sufficient to an extent would be a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's the theory behind globalization.  It perhaps started out from a motherland-centric viewpoint, but everyone quickly realized it was much more economical to inventory goods and parts related to them in the market country.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'eventually it's going to happen to politics, so next election might as well vote for UN Ambassador instead.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I do not kid.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'neither do i'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'around $4.8tn is owned by foreign countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'all of whom back their entire economies in US dollars, not gold'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the globalists are taking the same steps and making the same mistakes as the global economics teams did.  It's not even anywhere near "what if" anymore.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'and debt is not like normal debt... our national debt is not like a family of four owing an external entity like a bank for a mortgage...'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just a matter of how smart they want to be with their graft.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'china's GDP is like 11 percent of ours. all that "newsmax" economic apocalyptia talk is BS'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, only in America...New Mexico scuba diver drowns.'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pedwiddle: 'Right, 'cause nobody in any other country could have equipment malfunctions or anything like that....'
T3/r7/2012-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abandonhope: 'i think he's refering to the distinct lack of coastlines in new mexico'
T3/r7/2012-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, some crazy left wing nut was in the news claiming that people shouldn't celebrate Thanksgiving in the current way because it was founded by white supremacists and nazi's'
T3/r7/2012-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to Professor Robert Jenson, who writers for one of George Soros's echochambers "Alternet"'
T3/r7/2012-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'PA college slashes instructors' hours to avoid obamacare costs'
T3/r7/2012-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'new Facebook policy conflicts with European privacy law'
T3/r7/2012-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shadow banking system grows to $67tn'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'No history to show for the debate channel. There is now....'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nicely asks Tigernuts to be more quiet.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'planning a letter to my local MPs :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why not just see them in person?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't have the time or money for the 200 mile round trip?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they live 200 miles from their seat?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they -work- 200 miles from their seat'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm actually considering joining a political party'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's quite unfortunate...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they prefer emails or letters because they can answer in their time and research the relevent information'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which means I have too much spare time and should pup more, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'problems with a big country, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seems entirely reasonable to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also intend writing to the UKIP prospective candidate to see if they can come up with a better idea'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You might wonder whether they really need to be in London, they could just log on to aardwolf and talk in the debate channel and post youtube links and such.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be easier, wouldn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with all the modern transportation and comm links, you do have to wonder if it's really necessary to use the old setup...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they could debate in a virtual space, then go to london for the final deliberations, or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or we could euthenise them all and save millions of pounds'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'amusingly, in Norway, only the conservatives have had any success in moving gov't offices away from the capital'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be asking them how they intend to fix the issue of being able to afford a basic 300,000gbp house on a salary of 25,000gbp, and what they intend to do with the building cartels which, complicit with local government, are the only ones allowed to build on green field land'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Tigernuts!!!  Tinada cheers him on.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'have you investigated the procedures for bidding for govt land?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't bid for government land'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you sound like a quack, they'll just ignore you, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then how does the land get sold?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not government land that's being sold'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh... then whose?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government doesn't own most of the land'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and what is the procedure for obtaining it?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'land? you buy it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and what's the problem specifically?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'planning law'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so... what's the restriction that you're complaining about?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'planning law is tighter than an unmolested choirboy's arse, means no-one can build anywhere except in existing gardens and brownfield sites'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would also help to quote relevant parts of current law/policy to them in your letter'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means plots get smaller and smaller, more and more expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you just rant at them they'll toss your letter and send a reply thanking you for your concern'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the end destination is everyone living in tiny shoebox hellholes stacked ontop of each other'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why it would be better to euthenise them'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you need to identify parts of the regulation preventing people from building residential units in open land...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the difficulty is not writing the letter'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'otherwise they'll just think it's the usual whining and send you a reply that goes "we thank you for your concern and we are working hard to address these isue..."'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the difficulty is enacting change - it's in big business' interests to keep property getting smaller and more expensive'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err, issues'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it keeps profit margins up'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'keeps control high'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you won't get anywhere without identifying specific issues in the regulation'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll let you into a secret, Sonshi, your statement would be accurate if you included only words 2-5'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so why send a letter at all then?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK members of parliament do not represent the people of their constituency, they represent their PARTY to their constituency'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'allows me to take it out on someone'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the chance that it'll do anything would drop from tiny to zero if you sound like a run-of-the-mill nutcase in your letter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and as OWS shows, having an actual objective is a lot more useful than "bad things are being done to us and you should fix it blgahahsk"'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'OWS?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'occupy wall st'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'OWS was easily defeated by co-option'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they never did settle on an objective...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'OWS was a false-flag attack.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best solution i have is to move countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they were never supposed to have an objective in the first place.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi imagines tigernuts pushing ireland out further into the atlantic.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd actually prefer to use an ejector seat on 90% of the population and have my fucking country back, kthx'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that would be a real quixotean feat, I think, since Mother Earth is pushing it into the UK.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sometimes objectives emerge from a spontaneous movement like that... like in egypt and libya...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Globalism. Make sure that everyone suffers'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'tigernuts for evil dictator! Gets to choose his 10%!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good enough for Bill Maher, good enough for me'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'psst, brits, make me evil dictator for life and I'll "eject" tigernuts!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah, at least i have some solutions'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'final solutions?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any solutions'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mein fuhrer, is that you, after all these years...?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Sonshi has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the dictators are all in the labour party and global equivalents these days'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'suuure'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Muhammed Morsi, etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hard to be dictator when you're out of power, oddly!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Hitler was a people person, a real for-the-people bleeding heart.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bring it on, global warming!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'let's see how your country copes with that in the next 50 years...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would I care?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we've already started!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what, not having kids?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if i did, wouldn't affect them'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi mutters something about starlings.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I care even tho I don't have kids and will be dead in 30-40 years.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'survival of civilisation and all. A noble goal, after all.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might just be exaggerating the nature of the problem somewhat'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'says the guy who believes in random hoaxes on one side and claims the other side is entirely a hoax!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'side of what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the science vs ostriches argument'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The only controversy when it comes to global warming is how bad it will be. However, most recent science shows things will be much worse than we thought before.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're thinking we'll have 4.0 degree shifts in temperature now.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll personally be devestated if the global temperature rises at the same rate as it has for the last 16 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'since according to the experts 2.0 will be devastating, 4.0 must then be the end of the world.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there you go, Hanslanda, give the remaining 50% of your salary to Al Gore and he'll save everyone by building himself an extremely large mansion on the coast near San Francisco'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do know that controlling it now is a net saving...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or, you know, do something useful.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like any good globalists, they don't consider policy to solve the problem, only to use the problem to rip everyone off and subjugate'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Personally, I think we should spend the most of our money going to solve this problem into research of alternative solutions.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's no controlling it now.  Whatever we could possibly do, short of reverting to candles and buggies, won't affect the outcome enough to matter.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can slow it substantially, and give enough time to complete work on other measures'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a disaster is already unavoidable, but the scale matters too'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think we can reverse the current problem in a couple 100 years or so. If we want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where's the encouragement being given to grow gardens, trees, balcony gardens, roof gardens, where's the encouragement NOT to concrete over stuff, where's the investment in -proper- renewable energy rather than corporate welfare to companies making billions of dollars out of pushing dodgy wind solutions to places where wind doesn't blow, and solar to countries with little sun'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why aren't they converting deserts to viable crops lands?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, with enough energy you can reverse it, certainly.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all we hear is control and tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, this is why carbon needs to be tradable.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'carbon does not need to be tradable'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right, with enough energy we can just capture co2 directly from the air.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you taxed emissions, there'd be a large economic incentive to reduce it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing i said would require a carbon trading scheme'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe you need to find somewhere else to listen, tiger?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't -work-, sonshi, you tax emissions all you do is force people to pay more for the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Politicians will not solve the problem, scientists will.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doing it piecewise is like taking courses in 5 cities instead of the same school... a waste of resources.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to throw money at it, have governments build green energy capacity directly'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some things govt can do more effectively than the free market. This is not one of them'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'disagree entirely'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Better to make sure that the energy companies make more money from green energy. Aka taxing the bad stuff. '
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'live in the UK, it'll change your mind pretty damned quickly'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the conditions for when govt should intervene directly is when the free market cannot function in that area, for one reason or another'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can't'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that would only work if green energy was competitive.  It definitely has not reached that point, either as an individual source or as a collective one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, many govts could take lessons on how to build a free market from us, and some nordic states...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, hans, that's why we only get shit green electric like solar and wind because they have very low infrastructure costs, comparatively'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something sensible like tidal barrages require huge investments which the free market cannot get involved in'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'green energy is competitive, if you taxed to compensate for externalities'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're willing to throw every one in the country into fuel poverty, sure'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'research into green energy is a different matter, of course - govt can pump in money here - but the actual manufacture and sales are better handled by the private sector'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're still obsessed with windmills and solar panel'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't "manufacture and market" large power infrastructure'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as I said many times before... the extra funds can eliminate marginal taxation on the poor, as well as provide everyone with a fixed-sum annual "gift".'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps in a parallel universe they can'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the poor needn't be hurt unless the politicians are incredibly stupid'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the poor will always be hurt, and politicians are always incredibly stupid, or greedy, or both'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'by competitive, I meant in terms of efficiency.  Not a single source of green energy is yet able to replace any of the fossil fuels (solar, wind, hydropower, algae, etc).  The comparison is not close at all, even in ideal zones where such sources would be used.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah, when you have a policy giving the country a large net benefit, it's just a matter of moving things around to ensure that the poor don't lose out. You could even arrange it so that every class gains'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'working harder on making things need less energy in the first place would be useful too :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's crazy socialistic talk, Majic!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hans - it's competitive if a high enough price were attached to emissions'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not attach a high price to breathing?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'my university's done a lot of stuff on their recent remodels with using passive heating/cooling -- stuff they never thought about before'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, a carbon tax would give a large incentive to reduce usage too'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nah, carbon tax doesn't work, because then I have to pay more for the same, and also it doesn't work because the government is ugly and stupid'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'currently, the best possible solar panel only has like a 40% output, which is somewhere around twice the amount of the panels currently on the market (at any price range, so obviously most everyone's not going to have them).  That's not currently a manufacturable panel due to costs, and it's still around half the efficiency of oil.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if coal energy prices doubled (and some of the tax was used to help the poor as a flat sum), you'd see a rush to develop ways to reduce energy expense.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and also a move into lower emissions sources'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or you could just legislate the maximum emissions allowed from a station for future developments and not have that huge hike in fuel costs'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which will achieve much the same effect over the long term'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'solar panels are pretty cheap now, the main limitation is that it can't produce round the clock.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if coal energy were to double in price, solar would become far cheaper for daytime use...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that and there isn't enough roofspace on the planet for our energy requirements from solar'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, not like solar is the only "green" source'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'solar is one of the most-efficient sources, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said before, solar and wind are red herrings, they could never provide even a significant element of the solution, they're just the lowest hanging fruits for big business to steal lots of subsidy money on'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's nuclear!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no need for subsidy - tax instead'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're about to start work on a huge nuclear plant about 100 miles from here'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reputed to be able to supply 15-20% of the entire country's energy needs'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taxing coal and redistributing the gains in other ways would effectively function as a green-energy subsidy without the cost, and with no adverse impact on the poor'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, taxing carbon, I mean'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'emissions, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds reasonable, but in reality not practical'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's practical... we have pigouvian taxation for a lot of other things'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we == you'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'redistribution is a failure here'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while countries were moaning about congestion taxation not being practical, for instance, we had already implemented it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... elect smarter politicians!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would require dispensing with the electorate'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'join a party and try to get them to choose candidates with firsts from cambridge in a hard subject or something'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far more preferable to let them rot in a hell of their own creation and make my own way'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, on your little island detached from modern industrial society...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're well detatched from industrial society'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if they start throwing carbon taxes around, it'll never be coming back'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK would benefit from an investment in coalpower right now'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, was looking at your finance minister (chancellor of the exchequer)... he studied... modern history?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and not even a first!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's an elitist, he has huge wealth and doesn't care about the little people'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'could be art history :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's pretty much identical to everyone in positions of power in british politics and commerce'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could all be physically related, and probably are'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... see... if you had actual smart people running your govt...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you have to buy stuff for personal use, and I'm pretty sure you've got utilities beyond the sun, rain, and whatever trash you can use for insulation.  Also pretty sure the companies you're buying your stuff from have utilities beyond those as well.  For all intents and purposes, you're in bed with modern industrial society'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'financial interest >> smart people'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides which, a bachelors is no guarantee of common sense'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'run smart candidates and tout their first class honours in math/econs/something relevant'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone with a first class honours degree in economics shoudl be banned from having anything remotely to do with the country's finance'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least they'd have a good chance of actually comprehending economic arguments'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, because it worked out so terribly for my country?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have a tiny little country'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU is run by these people'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are called 'Technocrats''
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because having a strong econs/math backgroud is great for a small country, but terrible for big countries?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or because you're "special" or something?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'people don't vote for highly educated politicians (on average) because they're 'not like them' and 'them ivory tower types have no clue about the real world' and they prefer to vote for 'that joe, he's like me''
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having a degree in economics doesn't make you any good at it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't even do that here, majic'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a strong education's usually a big plus with voters in my country...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the shadow-chancellor here's policies involve spending the same revenue several times over'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's how good his economics are'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yeah sonshi, but your country values education instead of giving lip service to it while realy wanting everyone to achieve the exact same results.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and having a first in econs or math from a strong uni does make you capable of understanding econs...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that didn't stop those same people from causing the world economic crisis of the last 4 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'such people make their first mistake when they go "well, here's what the market's going to do..."'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wouldn't have happened if we were in charge!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'singapore isn't 'all that''
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we took much less damage from the 1997 crisis compared to hk, for example, in large part because of our (govt's) better understanding of econs'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there was a great deal of panicking back then, and in 2008 though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, not really.  You largely dodged the bullet because your finance people are apparently honest to a fault and willing to give up much of their future earnings by steering customers to investments that make the customer money instead.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as i'm concerned, Singapores' just another overcrowded authoritarian city state hell hole that i'd hate to live in'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we had plenty of fraud in our banks, where the govt isn't looking. It's just that they're good at looking.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's SMALL so it can be looked at'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... another? There's another one?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do make it sound like we're more democratic than the uk though!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you just think you are'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'really...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The Economist Intelligence Unit classifies Singapore as a "hybrid" country, with authoritarian and democratic elements. Freedom House does not consider Singapore an "electoral democracy" and ranks the country as "partly free". Reporters Without Borders ranked Singapore 140th out of 167 countries in its 2005 Press Freedom Index.[2]'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Although dominant in its activities, the government has a clean, corruption-free image. Singapore has consistently been rated as the least-corrupt country in Asia and amongst the top ten cleanest in the world by Transparency International.[4][5] The World Bank's governance indicators have also rated Singapore highly on rule of law, control of corruption and government effectiveness. However, it is widely perceived that some aspects of the political process, civil liberties, and political and human rights are lacking.[6]'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as i sit below the line on the Nolan scale, you can see why this wouldn't appeal to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, civil liberties != democracy, whatever they claim...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the population doesn't support gay marriage and all that, what can you do?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's their choice'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they generally support hanging drug smugglers, say, wouldn't it be undemocratic, rather, to override the people's will?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they rate us badly, but it's the people's attitude rather than the govt system that is illiberal...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get no argument for me, i'm not a supporter of democracies'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think you're confusing "democracy" with "liberal govt"'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or i should say, i'm not a supporter of country-level parliamentary democracies'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we have free elections, we just have a lot of illiberal laws'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... illiberal is only of those funny looking words...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err, one'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our democracy is parliamentary... we inherited the basic system from the brits'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, there were many amendments to the system along the way...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the british system is broken in britain because of the subversion of the role of the judiciary and the monarchy'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the subjugation of the upper house'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, yeah, we don't have that whole monarchy thing too'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK is essentially a party-centric parliamentary dictatorship now'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where the parties are run by vested corporate interests'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you can't stop people from forming parties... parties are always going to be a part of politics'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, you can'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good luck with that!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have anti-subversion laws built into your constitution'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was headline news in other countries over the last couple of days that a foster-family here in the UK were prevented from fostering three european kids because they were members of the UK Independance party'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have been high level court cases where employees have been sacked for being members of certain political parties'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's no way you're going to have a democracy without political parties. You just need to regulated them well enough for fairness, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trust me, you can form all the parties you like, the rules are set up explicitly to maintain the status quo'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's true here, it's true in the US'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, sorry, but I find it hard to trust your news sources, given the number of hoaxes you've brought us.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this hasn't got to do with news stories, hoaxes or not'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'your headline news, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't write the news headlines'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'If people are getting sacked for being in the wrong party, yes, you'd have a problem. But I doubt that that is happening in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it is, you aren't much of a democracy, if at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you doubt wrong, it did happen, and had to go up the court system, ending in the EU court of human rights'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if judges are getting sacked, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then your problem is not that democracy doesn't work. Your problem is that you need a democracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/nov/06/bnp-bus-driver-wins-legal-case'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was the one i remember, there are others'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'high up on the list of questions to determine whether you are a democracy should be "is the govt system responsive to the people"...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"no"'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lose 10 pts'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this was an interesting piece'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://washingtonexaminer.com/examiner-editorial-if-top-5-paid-40-of-taxes-what-is-their-fair-share/article/2513985'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that one was a bus driver, not a judge...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who said anything about a judge?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fair share of taxes is determined by their income...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'washington examiner writers apparently don't understand the phrase "marginal utility"'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, you said employees'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh well'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate the way income tax is used as a justification here, since income tax accounts for a small proportion of the UK tax take'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'so it's very hard to take them seriously'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's not quite so bad then, a few black sheep, not a govt thing'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that's why it's in the "opinion" column, fiendish'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the rich earn a bigger share of income, it's hardly surprising that they should be called upon to shoulder a larger burden'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'opinions should be educated'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'd be almost no opinion left if that were the case'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some papers publish educated opinions, others publish opinions from the village idiot...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most papers regurgitate talking points from above'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most news media'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be very difficult to calculate the overall tax burden in the UK by income, but i'm guessing it would be a of the form y= -x^2-x+c'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e, the lowest paid and middle classes pay the lion share of the tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(as a proportion of their income)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with it tailing off above and below'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you mean the marginal/total tax rates with respect to income, there are people who calculate stuff like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is a direct conflict with propoganda pushed out by both sides of government'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, sonshi, but it's more difficult here because of the extremely complex tax and welfare codes, one of the most complicated in the world'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a regular civil-service factory'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I doubt it. The poorer classes can't pay the lions share of the tax when they only get a tiny share of the income.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lion's'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as a percentage though, it's a different matter...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they pay a higher PROPORTION of their income in taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'percentage of income, that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, that's certainly possible...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if everyone paid roughly the same proportion of their income, it would be more 'progressive' than the current system'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can be fixed by adjusting tax rates... if there's the will for it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is strange because anyone lefist arguing for a more 'progressive' system argues AGAINST a flat rate simple tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why do that when you can make it much more progressive?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it's essential as a starting point'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the system not being progressive enough is not because of income tax rates'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence why i said income tax rates are bandied around as the most important thing, yet they're not important at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the problem with a simple flat rate is that with all the means testing already in law, you'll build up a nearly unassailable marginal tax "wall".'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'describe this wall'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in order for the economy to function smoothly, you need to have a smooth progression in marginal taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm against means testing for nearly everything'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, for example say you have a 30% tax rate, and benefits expire at a certain income level at a rate of 30 cents on the dollar... you get a 60% effective marginal rate'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just go with 40% flat income tax rate, 20% flat rate sales tax. no allowances. job done, billions saved in admin'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: '20% sales tax?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can't eliminate those benefits either, or you'd throw many people into poverty and crime, and that's counterproductive'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'going to dinner now, but... yes, you could'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can wave goodbye to your economy if you tried that...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, we would not'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to understand why it wouldn't harm people you need to understand what taxes are currently inflicted(?) on people. The reason poor people pay such a high percentage of their income on taxes is because of all the taxation that is NOT based on income'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which could all be done away with if you modified the income tax system as described'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, in Canada, you can get arrested for telling kids Santa's not real.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Why do you need studies to find out that high glycemic index food and high glycemic load meals are not very good for diabetics?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to give people jobs to do'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and so that studies can be done to reinforce a corporation's product or market position, or steer it in a certain way'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'need any further reasons?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'or to establish a thing scientifically'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'instead of just assuming it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts snorts derisively at Averan.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'that's why we do science'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are the odds on that'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'oh right I'm talking on debate'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it depends on what they're studying and who is paying for it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'the corporations/illuminati/government all control and manipulate everything'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it with that? why can't it just be corruption and greed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i guess that doesn't exit either, right?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exist*'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'my main complaint is probably the use of statistics in place of medicine'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what a lot of 'studies' do'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'most, it seems'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'presumably because it takes less skill, time and money'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'makes more money, easier to manipulate'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see studies into the affects of smoking cigarettes from 1920s-1950s'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see also studies into safety of aspartame, 1960s-1990s'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ironic that you complain about using stats in place of medicine when you try to use (bad) stats in place of physics for global warming...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't use anything in place of anything else'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said there had not been any warming for the past 16 years, and that isn't subject to bad statistics, that's subject to trusted science'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, no warming in the past 16 years...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my biggest beef is not with climate change, but with what is being called for in response to it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'wow that is the most ignorant thing i've heard all day'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as you well know'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pigouvian taxation is perfectly normal, and it's odd that it's accepted in so many other areas, but somehow a carbon tax gets all the corporations riled up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'it would get me riled up, too, if my profit relied on pumping enormous amounts of waste carbon into the atmosphere'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released--chart-prove-it.html'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll see if i can find the raw figures'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, still peddling that hoax, I see...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Atoam: 'lol, dailymail'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'link the actual article, not the dummy version'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'go ahead, the met office refuted that hoax already...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as you would know, if you had bothered to look'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'he probably didn't, since his premise relies on being blind to fact'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/monitoring/climate/surface-temperature'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the guardian has a nice chart on how "skeptics" view global warming...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/oct/16/daily-mail-global-warming-stopped-wrong'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'i can find an article that will state anything. way back years ago in debate, i used to deconstruct our debates into proving why humanity should be destroyed.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'just like you can find articles refuting natural selection and evolution'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'and let's just say we live in the fantasy world of yours where climate change isn't happening, and let's just say we make the changes to taxation and policy and practice to avoid climate change... what's wrong with creating a better world for our children?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'or do you hate children?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prove you're creating a better world for your children'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'nope, not gonna work derailing the argument. first, you need to prove climate chagne isn't happening'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Proper climate taxes may kill off 2bn people, that leaves more resources for the surviving children? :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts grins evilly at Tinada.
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'what the hell is tinada talking about?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'zero source, zero reason, just a blatantly ignorant statement about billions dying'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'limit everyone's freedoms to the point we're all sold into slavery to 'green authoritarianism', so that our grandchildren can enjoy a third-world standard of living?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'we're already slaves to finance industries... you are still attempting to derail the argument and the ignorance of your statement that climate change isn't happening'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it you are suggesting, darlak, other than taxing and legislating people into misery? I haven't heard a cogent argument from any in that camp that would solve anything'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh no, sane economic policy will kill billions! Quick, do fifteen hail marys!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a lot of running around with hair on fire'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's approximately like this: To cut enough co2 to stop global warming, assuming UN estimates are correct, you have to raise taxes so high, the last 2ys worth of food price increases will seem like a blip'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which means (1) you have to subsidize food for the poorest or (2) they starve'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'ignoring for now the effects of taxes on total production..'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(what's the trend on Foodstamps, Tinada?)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can pull all sort of lies from your hat all day, but preliminary estimates on the taxation needed have already been done...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'tigernuts: address the issue at hand. link to a legitimate article (not the mass media version for dummies) that definitively proves climate change is not happening. do this again for articles that show otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i refer you to the answer given some moments ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'aand..my 2bn statment wasn'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: ''t supposed to be serious, for those who may not have noticed..'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'hence the somewhat half-hearted defence :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'tigernuts, where is your article?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you deliberately choosing to read only what you think is said?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I hope you know that carbon taxation won't actually decrease food production or even industrial production significantly...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at any rate, if the UN is right about funny things like atmospheric half-life of co2, we can't really stop the heating this century anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'tigernuts, where is your article?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'unless you use funny cooling methods'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we can't, but we sure can slow it down a lot'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darlak: 'fox news trolls'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '[25 Nov 17:59:29] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'my biggest beef is not with climate change, but with what is being called for in response to it''
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'moving fast on the policy front will make the difference between a minor disaster and a catastrophe'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, if you add a carbon tax so large that it materially affects spending patterns in the wealthy parts of the world, you will raise oil prices by quite a lot, and that means much higher food prices, since oil is one of the main components of modern food production'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and in general, higher taxes means lower producer profits and less supply'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'avoiding small changes now is short sighted and stupid, really'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'since the damage is going to be greater...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'how large these effects will be, are debatable'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the world economy would turn a huge profit by spending a bit now'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where are the herculean efforts to cover more of the planet in co2-absorbing plants and trees?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where are the efforts to convert semi-arid and desert areas into useful farming land?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'actually reversing it would cost too much, of course we're only going for the easy ways first'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, that's right, the only answers the lobby have are "tax people and ruin lives"'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'But if you have to halve co2-emissions, you clearly have to increase prices for consumers by quite a lot'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't want to screw everybody over until you have to'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'implementing a pigouvian tax now would mean that we don't have to go into full screw-everybody mode later on'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's already a criminal offence  in Australia to blame price rises on carbon pricing'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and I'm not particularly convinced that $10/gallon pump prices will be sufficient (considering, we already have that here..)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'increasing prices isn't such a big deal, if it's out one pocket in the other...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except it won't be'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be in the pocket, the MOSTLY out of it to banking, finance and corporate interests'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taking part of the revenue as an annual flat dividend to the people would eliminate effects on the poor'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'On the other hand, I am not convinced that co2 changes are a major driver of climate fluctuations'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't do that, Sonshi, and you very well know it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we do it...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you're supposed to be a democracy, aren't you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's been mentioned that Singapore is not typical of other countries'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, we're not supposed to be a democracy, we're supposed to be a constitutional monarchy'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It also appears that all thhe models used in the previous report are less reliable than random walk-based models, implying that something is missing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'should be easy to get voters behind a flat gift to everyone'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not when it at best is value-neutral'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a *democratic* constitutional monarchy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you're still supposed to be a democracy'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you vote for your mps and all...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's democracy is the most deluded bastardised parody of it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the voters would likely agree to a tax and gift plan, I should think'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it could be approximated by rolling a dice to depend which bunch of bought-out puppets is in charge for the next 5 years'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have way too much faith in voters'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what, who doesn't want free money that'd cover more than the typical increase in energy prices?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'democracy works perfectly fine on a village level, I think'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now it's suddenly paying out more than you get in?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a magical tax, now'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'say, I know that John is knowledgeable and honest, so I vote for him.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it does, for the average person...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because the rich consume a lot more than the poor'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not really true, you know'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so median burden in absolute terms is lower than the mean'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that requires proof, i call bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'look at your income curve. It approximates that'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you won't find a single country where the median income is above the mean'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that is true'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also (along with poorer people having more children) helps explain why vat is effectively a regressive tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've seen some statistics on a per-country/per continent basis, but no proof that it's true in-country in a significant way'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why a flat gift helps to redress these issues'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the stats are available on various country websites'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can look up the us stats easily on google. The singaporean site is singstat, there are plenty of others you can find'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not on the obfr'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obfr?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, it's called something else now'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, one way or another, large inequality of income is something that's present to some degree everywhere'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk national statistics publication hub'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Do rich people have a larger carbon fooprint to income ratio, though? That is slightly more complex.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what i wanted to know, tinada'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, as long as the ratio is about the same, the curve would approximate that for income'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't assume that'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I doubt that the carbon footprint to income ratio for rich people is significantly less...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If I go to a luxury restaurant and pay $1000 for my dinner, it probably didn't take much more carbon emissions to create than a McD meal at 1-2% of the cost'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only way you could assess such a thing would be to do a large survey across a wide spectrum of incomes and personal circumstances'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which chances are they haven't done, they've just assumed that x earning twice as much as y has twice the carbon footprint'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but as long as the total footprint grows with income, which is overwhelmingly likely, it will work as a progressive tax'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the wealth that rich people earn tends to come from industry'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the burden of taxation would fall on the shareholders, workers, and consumers...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a stereotype assertion for you: Poor people are probably far less concerned with their carbon footprint than the rich'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'where it falls mostly would depend on how elastic the product is'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but the shareholders are going to swallow some of it.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like hell they will'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that just like shareholders will swallow the extra costs from obamacare?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and one way or another, if you enact a policy where the economy gets a net benefit, ensuring that the poor don't lose out is a matter of detail'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they will take some fraction of the hit'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's just economics, after all'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats bad economics'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Assuming co2 drives global warming, and a carbon tax stops that, it will still take many years for the economy to benefit from it'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but shouldn't govt think long term?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should, but they don't'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and you won't see the benefit in the form of increased growth either'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd see the benefit in terms of reduced damage, yes'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still, when making policy you compare two scenarios, with the policy and without. That's how you calculate the profit due from the policy...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also we're getting a tsunami of retired people/lower overall health and another 20 years of more-or-less debt crisis, which doesn't help much :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you might have to shuffle things around to make sure certain vulnerable sectors don't get hit, but that's a matter of adjusting taxes and national dividends'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and during that generation of adaptation, it is also practically guaranteed that a bunch of poor people die'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like I said, just shift around your taxation'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but then that may also be good in the long run'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada meeps at Tigernuts!
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the net benefit is positive, you have some room to shift money from net beneficiaries'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eg. our anti-congestion schemes bring in a lot of money. This means lower taxes, subsidies on public transport, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, when you return to the real world where actual real (and often incompetent and/or corrupt) governments are in charge, let me know'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That's why those taxes will never happen, Tigernuts :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people are hurt by not having a car. But in its place, they can use public transport to travel faster than they would have in a car on a congested road'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'london has a congestion charge, basically makes it stupidly costly to go there'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'complaining about how incompetent your govt is won't make them go away'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is cathartic I guess :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if your govt is incompetent, why don't you just support sane policies and push it through?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'push what through?'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good policies'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have yet to see any'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'carbon taxation combined with appropriate redistribution, for example!'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'constitution + bill if rights...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the thing about democracy good or bad, is that the population usually gets the government it deserves'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Andurien is agreeing with that Twyst person again...
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that is the theoretical basis of democracy :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'frankly, I think the whole "I won't bother supporting good policies because they won't implement it anyway" attitude is harmful to a democracy.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a lot of govts don't get much pressure from their people because whenever someone suggests something good but politically infeasible, others censor it by saying it isn't politically feasible. And then it remains politically infeasible...'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'beside the point, Sonshi. Whatever the members' attitude, the government is theoretically reflective.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that attitude needs changing'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in a democracy, the government reflects the ethos. If the people want to have an attitude as you described, that's fine. They get what they want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments are supposed to be of the people working for the people. They are supposedly the public servants'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think anyone can claim that anymore of here'
T3/r7/2012-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'for republics, that is just a slogan. In a Republic, the government reflects the wishes of the land owners, and is there to defend those wishes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone here ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'zZZzzzZzz..hm?'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol hello :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is electromagnetism something you know something about ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or care to deb an issue ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dead chann then ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'electromagnetism isn't controversial enough for debate channel perhaps.'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah will return tomorrow in tech with the prob - reaserching now '
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'what's the problem?'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mark Carney appointed as the next governor of the bank of England. Joy, just what the UK needs, another ex-Goldmann Sachs stooge ripping off the country for the benefit of international banking'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'company fires 150 employees for not getting flu shots (well i guess that means they won't need to cull due to obamacare)'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a faintly awesome article, for lots of reasons (not all good) http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/19-11-2012/122849-obama_soviet_mistake-0/'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jamie Foxx: Our Lord and Savior Barack Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'californian man jailed for 4 days for filming cops at a traffic stop'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, of course, you get skills/spells later that let you do that'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'whoops :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'No you don't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '>:('
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's sad that when I want to say something, I automatically type debate'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Why do you think that is, Johnny?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I like conflict?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Do you?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no  :('
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Tell me about your mother'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure if I'm ready to be psycho-analyzed'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Thats a sign of severe mental trauma'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, yeah'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ugh :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I do the same'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '>..<'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Head of the TSA declared that the Congressional Committee has no jurisdiction over the TSA.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's..... a bit dodgy....'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Jurisdiction to do what?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they asked him to attend a hearing'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, summoned him'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Hrm, definitely dodgy'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a bit like General Panetta bloke claiming he doesn't need congress approval to go to war'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'they definintely have subpoena power over executive branch officials'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be using it, pussy mob that they are'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Are you implying that bombs for peace is the same as war?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, tinada, i am'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada points at Tigernuts and yells 'EEEEEEEEEK!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think will happen with regards to the 'fiscal cliff'?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see new york state and san fran have been going after gun right again'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my state was rated as the third worst run state in the U.S. by the Wall Street Journal.  On the bright side, I had no idea that Rhode Island was actually run worse '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what state is that, Razkin?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Illinois'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illinois recently have the high court rebuff it on their attempts to imprison people for filming cops'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we gave you Obama'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a rare following of the constitution, they found those laws prohibiting it unconstitutional and struck them down'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wow tiger, that's kinda surprising given that boston has already gone that route quite publicly'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surprising how?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'boston already ruled it unconstitutional to film cops?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, unconstitutional to prohibit it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Here in Illinois, we find the Constitution to be more suggested advice than law'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'boston PD were majorly bitchslapped by courts for trying to disallow it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'are favorite phrase is 'living document''
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the message doesn't seem to have gotten through everywhere though, some guy already known to cops in CA got thrown in jail for 4 days for it. Since they'd already been successfully sued by the same guy for $25,000 for wrongful arrest before you'd think they'd learn their lesson'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the constitution IS a living document.  The amendment process makes it so.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'see, Hanslanda is from Illinois too, if only in spirit'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and judicial interpretation makes it so'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'don't like how it's interpreted today, wait 'till the next set of judges'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I only go to Illinois for the lottery tickets and the near-naked women.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we have casino's, too.  Actually not to far from me'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'where are you that you'd have to go to illinois for just near-naked women?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'probably wisconsin'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I could see going elsewhere for naked, but doesn't everywhere have at least near-naked?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Missouri.  Best we have over here is the Queen of Hearts, which is where old, used-up hookers go to retire.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, so it's for BETTER near-naked, not just for existence of near-naked'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my wife comes from 'south central' illinois, her town turned an old school building into a strip club'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'better is also closer, as it happens.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'by turned into, I mean they let people strip there now'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they didn't actually renovate it or anything'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and every night they play VH's hot for teacher'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and they make you sit in those tiny, uncomfortable metal-and-wood chair-and-desk combos, too.  No room to adjust your package.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Cain killd Abelinc sings "I dropped my pencil...now gimme something to write on, man"
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the funny thing is, what most disturbs me is they simply just use the old school sign board out front to advertise'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and from what I've heard, you wouldn't be hot for these teachers'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is it in Swansea, or more over in the middle where old towns are slowly falling into old coal mines (like that one elementary school they had to abandon)?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, it's actually on the other side of the state, closer to Effingham'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you know, that article that I mentioned earlier, it didn't even say anything about how 3 out of our 4 last governors are all in jail'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, but the 4th is doing well for himself :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'who were the two before Ryan?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd have to look it up, was it Edgar?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'walker and kerner, I guess they aren't all currently in jail'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'only Ryan and Blago'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually it was on 247wallst.com'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the article ranking the stats, that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'congratulations to North Dakota, btw'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nope, California was the worst'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'maybe I'm thinking of a different list, one about credit ratings or something (CT was definitely the worst state to lend money to).'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Connecticut was 36th'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I mean it's going to be somewhat subjective, based on your criteri'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only two states are rated AAA, Utah is one.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hey looked at debt per capita, deficit, unemployment, household income, and pct. below poverty'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yo daddy's dick is so small, the only tight pussy he gets is from a sewing needle.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ack, mis'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol we could debate thet .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'california govt expenditure is pretty average, so they have room for manoeuvre...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'being in the hole for billions of dollars is average?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'spending/state gdp'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'average for the US is seems .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think the only entity worse off than CA is the USPS.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'here in illinois, our deficit is 40 percent of our general fund'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yay us'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'bets on CA going postal ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nah, California's too big to fail.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with just how much the california govt spends alone, you'd think that they shouldn't have a debt problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but somehow they managed to'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://247wallst.com/2012/11/27/the-best-and-worst-run-states-in-america-a-survey-of-all-50/   for those who want to see the article'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'unemployment's going to skyrocket in CA soon.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '11.7 percent unemployment in CA'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'second highest in the u.s.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'damn thats high ! only ppl outta work here are the ones that don't wanna work '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'california is like the US' catalunya'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Nevada is the worst, 13.5 percent unemployment'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, but they have tons of extra government employees that'll end up getting pink-slipped.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'huge black market there ? how they all live ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lots of spanics, too'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CA is in a debt spiral'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soln ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, so is Illinois'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'solution? retrenchment'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think we're tag teaming with CA to try and be the Greece of the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so austerity hits the US finally ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they can negotiate with the fed govt to get a fairer share of their tax money, they'd fix the crisis there'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not austerity, retrenchment'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I can't believe it hasn't hit Illinois'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the fed ought to agree too - they really shouldn't starve the golden goose that is ca.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'austerity kills economies, entrenchment helps them'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ty for clarification'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've been reading that the Movie Industry is starting to trickle out of CA'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'austerity is making 10% cuts across the board, retrenchment is cancelling programs entirely but leaving others well funded'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'gaming has been bigger than movies for some time imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ok, but movies are still huge'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'accepted'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I agree, silcon valley isn't in danger atm'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CA is going the opposite direction with more authoritarianism, more taxation, more regulation'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in fact, i think I read somewhere that that's one of the areas in CA that's still a bright spot'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why it'll get worse not better'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'i dunno - the only corner of that plate not to go is the san andreas / cascadia fault .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'boohoo, they voted to raise taxes therefore they're authoritarian.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, they're on the same track as us, they're structuring things so that businesses don't want to come here'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a ridiculous thing to say, Sonshi, you should be embarrassed of yourself'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was extremely 'unpredicted' motion results in CA, and an awful lot of leaning, false advertising and fraud'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i quite believe that californians are dumb enough to vote themselves a tax hike'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'california is still far more liberal than the average state, and I doubt it will get more authoriarian anytime soon'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when i talk about authoritarian i talk about the attitude of the governance, not of the people'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'iyo would I be right in saying that western economies in general are overweight with welfare dependant healthcare sucking wastes of oxygen ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's true, tzad, but oddly i don't think it's the problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the people still vote for the politicians there...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't actually have a problem with socialism or welfare, it's the institutions that govern it that tend to be the problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah business model is the prob imo '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'most of the blocs here are agendized, with it being highly unprofitable to fix the issues each proclaim need to be fixed.  We won't ever have racial equality, as about half the blacks seem to think that anything bad that happens to them is to be blamed on someone else (usually the old white guys, but they're not above accusing each other of racism) and the half that accepts responsibility is also sensitive to racial issues.  Even the asians are keeping moreorless wholly to themselves.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Hans you get hammered for that ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'most people don't listen to the debate channel anyway :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh is the central reason I'm here - this n tech '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, strangely nobody reacted.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I enjoy playing, but I tend to hang around the longest when this channel is active'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh gawd, I hope I'm not going stale! :('
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I didn't say it .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'as far as wellfare and whatnot goes, I think my largest problem (and maybe I'm misinformed on this) is that they don't really seem to have an end goal outside of simply sustaning people, meaning, there doesn't seem to be anything attached to them that aims towards encouraging people to work, or helping them find new training, etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'now I know I cann buy QP/TP there seems little point in the game - but you do meet interesting ppl here '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I like chatting on this channel, i don't always agree with people, but I usually enjoy reading what people think'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'how do you get a 3rd gen welfare dependant back into the workforce ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there is only token activity towards limiting welfare assistence.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, I think that's the problem'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tie there welfare to activity n audit the activity ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm not sure most people on Welfare know what those other programs are, though, but at any rate it's not so much the welfare keeping folk on it as the knowledge that when they go off it they'll be even worse off than before.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you have to pay people to do that'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'their*'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know someone that quit one of their jobs because they got more food stamps'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's a HUGE gap between welfare and the poverty line, and lots of folk in that no man's land have figured out how to get two pieces of the pie so they can live better than they should be.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the strange thing is, if you look at her budget, it made financial sense, at least when you consider her works skills, etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'many states have their unemployment and welfare system set up so that you need to register for jobsearch, etc, which will also let you know about programs'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I dont' agree with it, but she gained more from it than working'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm impressed that you can talk on this channel and complete area goals'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at the ssame time, that is'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my experience is with the Australian system -  unemployable ppl get welfare based on race and are not audited'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I can barely do a quest and chat at the same time :('
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unemployable or unemployed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unemployable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, unemployable shouldn't be audited'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'me?  Goals are easy, particularly when you have tons of walkthroughs on the net.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'what's the point in auditing the unemployable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unless you're using some different definition for unemployable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'fraud detection.  Just because you got categorized as unemployable doesn't mean you really are unemployable.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I doubt the land of Oz is any more or less corrupt than the States, and we've got some really crooked places here.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unemployable, they don't turn up, are a revinue risk if you put them on point of sales through family pressure, general ineptitude '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'I don't know about your country, but in Canada it's a pretty rigourous process to get onto disability and they're required to resubmit a yearly thing from a doctor acknowledging they're still disabled'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'incompetent isn't unemployable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a screwup is different than unemployable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'us govt is really bad at adjusting effective marginal tax rates...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the prob is that the race of an entire reigon is "unemployable" '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they want to means-test food stamps, they should eliminate all other income taxes at levels where people are eligible for such benefits'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they also employ some rather naive people.  Far too many people are getting disability than is proper.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'sonshi: there's an income bracket that gets food stamps, but still pays income tax?!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's pretty stupid that you're giving them welfare with one hand and taxing them with the other. So inefficient.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'that's utterly insane'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some states do...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I pay income tax 3 times over--federal, state, and local.  Can't ever get the local back, though.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you give them welfare .. one sector of the loud are happy - tax em and the ppl providing the welfare are happy to get something back ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'anything under $10k / year pays 0 income tax in Canada, which is a few thousand more than welfare pays, so there's a reasonable buffer where you can start working and make more and not deal with taxes'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'and if you're making just over welfare, you still get some of the other benefits like prescription coverage etc'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'to encourage people to get jobs and off the system'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that type of policy is where socialism works imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we have entire towns where welfare dependance is the norm in Oz '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really.  Poor folk have some of the best satellite TV packages, electronics, and general all-around amenities.  They live well beyond their means.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a crazy situation here where welfare pays more than working, particularly if you're single, female, and have 2 or more kids living with you'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'easy credit .. last 2 crashes .. yeah I hear ya '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this comes about because the population is too high/dense, wages are too low for living costs (and therefore government subsidises the working)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given that already spending far more than the raise, no amount of "socialism" could ever helop'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a lose-lose situation'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmmm, at the federal level... it seems standard deduction is 5950 for singles, while eligibility cuts off at over 1k per month of income...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so a lot of people are indeed paying income tax and getting food stamps at the same time'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wish they'd get rid of deductable here'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'usually the (relatively) better run countries like canada have a large personal deduction or a large 0% tax bracket to start with'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and i think it's a con'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in Oz the wages are high because of low unemployment , they'd get more at work , yet no private organisation will employ em because they will not show up after payday, gov projects have to and are burned by the indig. employment quota Every time '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally it should be expanded well beyond the level at which most welfare benefits cut off'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have an allowance on income tax, capital gains, and some other of the investment taxes, they're a vehicle for the rich to dodge taxation'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"burned"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'fair tax go'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't forget that they can prison/fine you in oz for saying that carbon taxes has caused price rises'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'HR costs of sourcing ppl that will work after having to source from the "locals" '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '= burn'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be like my government saying it would be illegal to claim that VAT rising from 17.5% to 20% is responsible for price raises'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, you'd have to go to Africa to find a more bent government than the UK'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oz operates several closed markets , supermarkets n banking spring to mind and they will use any excuse to raise prices - I agree that it should be illegal to raise prices in a non transparent environ'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flat rate of tax of 40%, flat vat rate of 20%, local income tax set locally at 2.5-5%. Job done'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'welfare cheque = the pill... job done '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol soz Starl is no longer here - someone must carry the torch  '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm all for letting them get on with it, but abstinence or the pill or an implant should be a requirement of welfare'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'up and above the basic citizens allowance'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what happened to her?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but non permanent steralization for welfare dependants would be a huge shift in social engeneering '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You wish someone would get nuked so you'd move up on rank 1.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Abe - we are not the droids you seek .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'bots, not droids.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Isnt the initial problem, people without the means to raise children having children, still going to be there? regardless of putting the people already with children on welfare on birth control?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be a tough sell, though not tougher than the NHS with it's killing-the-sick-and-elderly antics'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Hans ! you unspun my spin !'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a doctor who ran a cancer charity locally here got stripped of his prescribing powers because he had been helping extend the useful lives of terminal cancer patients'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'what was his crime exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'cyrep: the problem is mitigated by not having them multiply like rabbits getting extra handouts per kid'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his crime was prescribing drugs to help the terminally ill live longer'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Wont people still multiply regardless and end up on welfare anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'perhaps breeding should be a privelage - not a right '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some people here lost their jobs because they wouldn't take an injection to make them sick.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whereas NHS policy is to kill off terminally ill as soon as possible, with tacticts that include denying drugs on cost grounds, and withdrawing water from those in hospital'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'im for steralization at birth to be honest, overpopulated already as it is, plenty to adopt and foster'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that irked a lot of people, so they offered to hire them back on condition of getting sick.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'The Giver comes to mind'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'cyrep: the measure is not to prevent people from ever going on welfare, it's to prevent them from taking it from one point to an obscene point'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'What should the population be at then Cyrep?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'oh to limit the usage of its funds?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'umm, if you sterilize at birth, then after one generation there isn't plenty to adopt and foster'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'actually addressing poverty would be a better idea...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i know when we have over a billion homeless and starving, everyone having another 8 million children every year isnt doing anything positive'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'people thought the same thing in the late 18th century, that the world had about reached its maximum capacity'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'education in 3rd world countries generally lowers the birth rate but I think we are WAY beyond that imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'then the industrial revolution happened'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'the world had a fraction of this population in the 18th century'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the world could sustain more people, but it'd be a horrid life'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already a horrid life, here'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we were down to just 13 families when the world nearly ended.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'living life well >> crunching them in'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nah, the world can handle the people without a horrid life at all...that's not the earth's limitation, it's socioeconomic/political issue'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'conclusion: let's get rid of 80% of the population'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'go back far enough, and you'll find we're all basically inbred.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'but that's exactly my point Cyrep. People thought the world was overcrowded, and then we realized that it's capable of a lot more'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Conclusion: you don't have the right or knowledge to say that people should be killed, sterilized, etc. b/c you think babies are taking your resources'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i haven't advocated any of that'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'So your saying i can take a fish tank with a rock in it, add 500 fish, and nothing changes'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'OK say I did '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, if you look at the physical limits, we're far from where it would be infeasible to have a good life for everyone'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'hmm swear i said a single fish in the tank :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: '(Debate) Tigernuts: 'conclusion: let's get rid of 80% of the population'   Did you mean "Resolution" ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'babies are taking my resources if those babies were conceived to get a bigger dole from the resources I pay for...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'resolutio might have been a better word, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'rofl what like living on the moon or some garbage were absolutely nowhere NEAR obtaining?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you mean "final solutions"?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'err, solution'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it can be achieved using education and a bit of common sense'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'if everyone in the world went and lived in the State of Texas, the population density in Texas would by like Manhattan. And the entire rest of the world would be empty'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Xyclon B'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i thought the final solution was kavorkian'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rofl, not even close to true, tipro'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'do the math'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigration control would also help - population of much of europe is stable/dropping'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Kevorkian's too busy getting a different type of needle stuck into him.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same would be true of USA if you didn't have a leaking border'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'yeah tipro if there wasnt another 5mil born every year adding to that already stable number'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'china's debating on lifting their 1-kid limitation'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if you somehow convinced the latinos and negros to stop breeding like rabits'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what border?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'try an orange 1.0 Kav :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mexico, hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'again, what border?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Abe China is also growing , both in size Tiwan/tibet etc and in economy too '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i saw a recent statistic that 52% of black children never get born due to abortions'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if govts would only quit messing around and implemented sound eocnomic policy... sigh.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given how their population is -still- rising, do they ever put their pants on?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'that's not true Tigernuts. Perhaps you meant "50% of aborted babies are black"'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'im friends with several black people who are anything but the sterotype you suggest'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'china should've lifted it long ago. We've been telling them for a decade or more that it's a terrible idea...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's meant as a complaint, cyrep then you don't understand what a stereotype is'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not all Indian people call me up trying to get me to claim for missold payment protection insurance'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's quite amusing how china has built huge ghost cities with barely anyone living in them.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'that all black people fuck like rabbits? news flash, HUMANS fuck like rabbits'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm not racist but.. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'has nothing to do with skin color'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it has to do with statistics'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to do with race'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I am Pro MY race - white '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i know beckys and stacies and lauries that got pregnant before high school finished as much as i know lalandra and tanisha'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'when took a year of psychology, the books said there were significant differences in mating behaviour'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'between ethnic groups'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the stats show that certain races in the US are growing quicker than others, that's not racist, that's just stats'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: '7 billion people in the world, 270k sq. miles in Texas. That comes to 26k people/sq mile of Texas. Population density of NY City is 27,500 people / sq mile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City You can find a better cite than Wikipedia if you want'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's anecdotal evidence'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so much housing, such plentiful housing remaining vacant... yet people are crammed into pigeonholes in the major cities... ah well.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's different than statistical'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'attribute it to wealth, culture, whatever you like'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Just because it's true doesn't mean it isn't racist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i didnt call anyone a racist :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm racist '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'its the debate channel you can be whatever in here from what ive seen over the years '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm just ist'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the weird thing is, you're kind of right, Tinada.  Which makes it hard to deal with some issues'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i descriminate against everyone'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'everyone's racist.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yay Avenue Q?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yet few accept it Hans - I do '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Thats true Hans :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'thing is, poor people tend to have more kids. Wonder what the rate adjusted for socioeconomic status looks like.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'I try to not be if that means anything :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what i was thinking, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'those who claim they aren't are the most hardcore racists of all, like conservatives and sexual fetishes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'when you look at birth rates (and std's)  the largest contributing factor tends to be the education levels of females'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Averan: 'acknowledging that everyone has racial bias, doesn't mean you have to discriminate'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that that for what you want'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wouldn't be surprised if the rate was fairly even across races'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poverty in the US isn't even across the races'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(after adjusting for socioeconomic factors, that is)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's racist, Sonshi.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, there's good news, because of the way that the water and food supply has been poisoned for the last 50 years with hormones, the fertility rate in men is dropping'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Ithought we said racism is no longer a tag because we are all racist - I know I am '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Less intelligent people tend to have (less education, less money, more children, insert pretty much anything you can think of here)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i dont truly believe everything in books and the news, were only getting the information they CARE for us to know :-p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hooray for all the people who complained about job-killing environmental regulations?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'racism is still a profitable means to get what you want.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'fortunately all ethnic groups are equally intelligent'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's OK that everyone and everything is being poisoned and the ecosystem is being completely subverted, provided you all go out and obsess about Carbon Dioxide'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'racial divides are promoted, as much as we say we fight it :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'its called journalism and spin :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'so true Cyrep'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'SAT scores search by race ... all are = disproved ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's all part of the package... the people who fight against co2 regs and regs on other pollution are about the same'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not strictly true, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'its impossible to find that by race, because some people of ethnic backgrounds consider themselves white on census and other things like that'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of corporations and institutions fighting for CO2 taxes because it benefits them'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'when your not white, your of latin decent, you just live in america, makes you american not white'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you can ram one through, it is all but certain you can ram the other through'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'usful as those are not the norm - all you need is an average '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'thats why they dropped the census the last time they tried it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how many can you name that also pollute significantly with other stuff?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if USA was to stop all production of CO2 immediately, buy 2030 the global temperature would be 0.08 degrees cooler than it would have been'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'everyone lies :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Manipulative D
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'erm :D'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's far cheaper to mitigate CO2 and use the money to deal with the consequence of climate change'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the worst pollutant known to man - nicotine -  still legal .. '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'id need to know what co2 is, sounds like an explosive but that could be too much MW4'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the corporations that support co2 regs are also mostly favourable to other environmental regs'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'co2 = carbon dioxide.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'oh durp'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the people they need to go after are the hormone pushers, the GMO pushers'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'say again Hans - taking notes '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the crazy dicks that want to put lithium and statins in the water supply as well as chemical waste masquerading as tooth-protecting fluoride'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'notes are already taken, debate -h.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'the water is already poison'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm a pad n penicl girl :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'just got back from educating my dentist who was pushing that poison on me'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the fluoride is tainting my precious bodily fluids!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi hands out tin foil hats.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'just because the nuke went off in japan doesnt mean it wasnt leaked into the ocean which evaporated into the air around everyone and rained righht back down'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'why put more shit in it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fluoride is banned in most of europe's water supplies'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are they wearing tinfoil hats, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i didnt get a foil hat :-('
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home we have pretty strict water standars... I use a filter here. Wonder how effective it really is.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i know i drink bottled water, im sure its absolutely no better, maybe worse could be testing random crap in different bottled water for all we know :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LOL I'm gonna wear a foil hat to work next shift ! great idea !'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'it just tastes better than the asswater from the sink'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your countys/cities pay millions of dollars to chemical companies to dispose of their hazardous waste for them'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'flouride is dental conspiracy to separate you from more of your money.  Everyone knows that, but what is less known is that there's another, more active conspiracy to get you to agree to more frequent dental work.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jolly benevolent of you'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I run it through a water filter before boiling. Seems to smell better after that'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're familiar with that, hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/09/tin-foil-hats-actually-make-it-easier-for-the-government-to-track-your-thoughts/262998/'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'its gross im sure, i waited 10 years for a dental exam, she said brush more, i have a cavity that she wont even call a cavity. You dont need dental work every 5 years or whatever theyre saying'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'just brush ya damn teeth, and i smoke or have smoked'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fluoride can be helpful when applied topically'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'calcium fluoride, yes - sodium fluoride, no'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I seem to have to have more dental work done here than back home. Can't say it doesn't make me a little suspicious...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'milk and salt flouride :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ingested it is of no value to your teeth, and has been shown in a number of studies to damage the developing brains of kids'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'calcium fluoride is far more expensive than any dental office will pay, sodium fluoride is super cheap'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'so flouride toothpaste probably is effective? but drinking it in water = no'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home they have no way of telling who goes to a govt dentist for a checkup every now and then. Keeps them honest'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i learn so many things in Aardwolf :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, cyrep'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'no such thing as fluoride, it has to bond with something else, calcium, sodium, others'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'see, you go to a dentist and the first thing they tell you is "don't put metal things in your mouth".  When you go for a checkup, though, what's the first thing they do?  They scrape away your tooth enamel with metal files.  This causes more wear on your teeth, which combined with the food you consume ups the rate of acid wear.  Which leads to you spending more for more expensive desensitizing toothpaste and more frequent dental checkups.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'depends on how much fluoride is already in the water'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the whole floride deb is last century imo dental hygene is a personal issue - prozac in the water next?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'just legalize pot why bother drugging everyone with prozac'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Manipulative :D
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'prozac is already in the water.  We flush too many meds down the toilet already.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'you think itl be bad, did every single person in the world turn into an alcoholic cause alcohol is legal? No'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have found high traces of SSRI's in water, Hans, both here and in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but much higher levels of Oestrogen, is why they have fish going bisexual'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and probably why there is so much campness going around'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the drop in sperm rates'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'dont want children so thats no bother to me'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I wanna make MDMA with an MOI uber E ! '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fluroide they put in water is Hydrofluorosilicic acid'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Wheeew im commin to your house Tzadkiel :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder why us politicians (the gop mostly) find it hard to understand that govt physicians don't have an incentive to prescribe near useless treatment, while private ones do... odd, given how much they talk about the free market.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'U gotta be white :P'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe they think physicians are super-moral beings, immune to incentives...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi circles his hands above his head trying to construct a halo.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Manipulative: 'they should make them take an oath'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they used to'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, what a great idea, everyone abides by oaths!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just liability magnets now '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no incentive?  Their workload is going to quintuple just from the insurance coverage.  It'll get a lot worse if we can't reverse this provider shortage bearing down on us.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'overpaid undereducated drug pushers now'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'get rid of privatized garbage and it might do something'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'd much rather get second opinions from a govt doctor, if a private one prescribes something expensive.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can't do that here, as far as I know...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come to the UK, and not get treated :-) but it'll be cheap!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, you'll get treated.  By then, though, it'll be too late because it went terminal.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'apparently french healthcare is great - they got something right perhaps ?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'oh like the people i know dying of cancer right now who arent being treated because they dont have the 93k+ itl cost?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'uk system is not bad... if your doctor wants you to get some expensive treatment, you can go ask a govt doctor if it helps... if you do need it, you can wait for the free one, or pay for the private option'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'France is burning.  I don't think they got it right.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'its not that awesome here'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK system is hypocratic'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the west is burning -- same conclusion'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, where govt healthcare is cheap, it tends to bring down the cost of private options too (and the quality up), since they have to compete.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, they won't offer chiropractic treatment, but will offer homeopathy. They won't pay for expensive life saving cancer meds, but will give women breast enlargements'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'ok that is messed up Tig :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'you can get some free titties but not some free health to live another day?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soln Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as far as I know, the uk does pay for cancer meds'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the death-panelliness will eb getting worse because of the aging population and debt'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, sonshi, only some'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'cosmetic surgery outside of being mangled in an accident should never be covered :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the better stuff is subject to postcode lotteries'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'usually when such systems do't pay for something, it's because it isn't effective'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'you dont NEED bigger tits, you WANT bigger tits, doesnt take priority over need imo'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the only reason, Sonshi, cost is an important factor that they lie about'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Awww I want bigger tits ! '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, yeah... but your system is underfunded'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'so theyll pay up to a certain point?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, cyrep'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ours is much more efficient'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'or only covere specific meds?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll either offer it, or they won't offer it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'NYC's going to go bankrupt in 2013, mostly from increased healthcare costs taking up more of their budget.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the system is corrupt to the core'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just not gonna have  something stuffed in me to do it '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has little to do with funding'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and since basically EVERYONE is going to be insured, that means higher premiums so that the not-sick can pay for the sick.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, obamacare is absurd, hopefully they'll shoot it down at the second time of asking'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's the best they can manage for now'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'thank the gop, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"we can't afford socialised healthcare, let's just fuck everyone over"'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Insurance 101 states that the more claims there are, the less money is left in the pot for everyone else and so you pay more for something you're generally not using.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'If that were true then the population thing i mentioned wouldnt have been shot down. Apparently you can add more to the pot and it wont effect anything :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given the baby boomer gen and heathcare needs and that we have already got from them what we can... Zyclon B ? ... makes economic sense anyway - someone is pushing for this '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'im remembering something about beans or pennies in first grade that explained what insurance 101 does :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government are planning on interfering in house insurance here because the dumbarses allowed them to build housing estates on flood plains, then whinge like buggery when insurers refuse to insure them after being flooded out a few times'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'so wait, you knew your house would be damaged where you built it, you do it anyway, then want compensation when its damaged?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi mutters something quietly to himself.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Its like ignoring the warning sign :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'another instance of fucking retarded media and green liberals: "We need to spend more on flood defences! Global warming is making everyone get flooded!". No. you're getting flooded because you built houses on a flood plain (clue's in the name folks) you then filled in all the ditches and ponds, failed to maintain the drainage systems, and concreted over everything prevent water from returning to the table and instead collect in rivers'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might notice i detest fake green activism'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we've got gov using an eminent domain twist to buy folk out in such places.  Instead of building malls and other commercial properties, they're redeveloping flood plains and other natural features.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'ooer'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you'd notice, cities tend to be built near rivers or coasts because it's easier to ship stuff'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you moved everything inland, the ongoing cost to the economy will be large.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'true, in general, but even with that the top 4 river systems in the world are running far below capacity.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'rail'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also tend to build up significant defences there'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and don't tend to be in basins'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'asking people to build further inland instead of controlling for global warming is, as they say, penny-wise pound-foolish'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'historically they'd build docks on the river but keep the rest inland some'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually no, it's not, Sonshi, it's more cost effective to deal with the consequences'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That does depend on the overall costs and benefits of global warming, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the nearer you put your industry to the port, the less you pay in fuel and other costs'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'im saying come inland because humans cant control nature and its going to do what it wants. We cant STOP nature, so move :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Cyrep.
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'co2 is only -a- factor in climate change, not the driving one'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not surprising that a lot of that stuff is in a vulnerable area'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'unless you know Storm from the xmen'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Assuming the UN is correct, co2 drives temp up by 2c, we will have serious adaptation costs'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there has already been, and will continue to be, changes'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'changes that are within our ability to control'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and also larger areas will become productive, (almost) all vegetation will grow better (more co2 -> more growth, also can grow in drier areas)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not at all'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'We can NOT control nature'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have no control of the sun'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we can control what we are doing to it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'methane is a much more potent contributor, but by volume co2 is the bigger issue (and they're worried about a 4c increase now...)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'For a small change (+2c) it appears that in the medium/long run this is beneficial'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'What we do as people has an effective if it happens for a million years or so. We are NOTHING to this planet :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their models for climate change have already been rewritten a few times, and continue to be so because they're bad models and they have little data'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they understand climate POORLY, you might have noticed this from their inability to predict weather'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'humans are arrogant to think we have that much effect on this planet. it was here far longer than we ever were, doing this same cycle over and over way before us'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '2 degrees is potentially devastating... you need to take into account the fact that a lot of species are not adapted for such a rapid change. 2c in 2m years sure. 2c in 2k years, maybe. 2c in 100 years... good luck'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'obviously, if consensus models are inferior to random walk based models, the science has some way to go'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's changed that rapidly before'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'what makes you think because we come along, we, humans, not some gods or aliens, humans, are so important to the survival of the planet and universe :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, we've improved our forecasting ability greatly. Have you not noticed that hurricane forecasts, for instance, are getting more accurate?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'short term only'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'besides, co2 warming is physics rather than meteorology'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'doesnt matter how accurate we are in predicting them. Things will effect it over the next few years and well once again be caught with our pants around our ankles'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, that's why physicists distance themselves from it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'no one quite seems to have gotten the physics right yet, though'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'too much unknown stuff, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'its not controllable and shouldnt be predictable :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i think the fact that we have been able to do it for so long is nothing more than luck '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can estimate short term first order effects for co2 without even going out of a lab...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a shame when it came to their models pitted against reality they fell down'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the physics for the absorbtion spectrum of co2 (and other common gases) is well known, and has been well known for a long time'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reality is far more complex than a lab'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the physics of black body radiation has been known for a long time as well'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'feedback and other effects are certainly more subtle, but you can estimate first order deviations from what it would have been just from established physics'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yellowstone erupting would sort it out'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not going to affect the first order difference between the two scenarios (with/without human emissions)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'Humans give themselves far too much credit'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's going to push both one way'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm waiting for the announcements on huge projects to greenify deserts, plant forest, and encourage roof (and other) gardens. Guess what, it won't happen'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'look at a satellite map and see how much we control, and tell us again that we give ourselves too much credit...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would happen if we had the right economic system in place, and if those are the best use of resources'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'ants on the moon will do about as much to effect it, as humans to earth'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. People follow the money, that's how markets work'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to do with economics, it's to do with what the elite want, and they want control'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'greenification does not give them domination'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'well money is elite :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd have to put the right economic system in place... tax the right things, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'isnt that how they got to be "elite" they have all the money? :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'panic, carbon taxation, and acute legislation affecting the way people run their lives does'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'precisely, cart and horse'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'or control it anyway'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'carbon taxation will lead to economic entities doing more to reduce emissions'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'companies, people, govts, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not if you're doing a cap and trade style.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll also lead to a degradation in living standards and an increase in poverty, but most of all, it will do NOTHING to reduce global CO2'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it'll be cheaper to buy more credits than to actually lower your footprint.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, so now we're questioning supply and demand?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an issue of supply and demand'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it's cap and trade, who cares as long as the cap isn't exceeded? You can slowly lower it'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thel'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you forgot about the "and trade" part, Sonshi.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you want to talk about cap and trade, an interesting example is our COE system for traffic congestion'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not comparable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the govt doesn't care as long as no more than a certain number of certs are issued. So the car population is entirely within their control. Trading helps those limited certs to reach people who want them most.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the "cap" is the desired outcome. The "trade" is a way to maximise utility given that outcome'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a scheme that operates in isolation in a single city state, where the thing being controlled isn't ultimately a necessity because their exist alternatives'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no alternative to needing food, water, and energy'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people either pay the hiked prices or go hungry/freeze'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's why carbon taxation is better for now than cap and trade. Cap and trade requires international cooperation.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see previous'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like I mentioned before, the distributionary effects are easily controlled'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just give everyone 1k a year or something.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'countries are broke, there will be no distributionary effects'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'carbon taxes could not raise enough to give everyone 1k a year'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, if it didn't, the impact wouldn't be that high. If the impact is low, then give 100 instead. It's just details'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking as someone whose gas bill went up 30% this year, i'd say that's overly hopeful thinking'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'okay, let's advance the discussion to the point that no more trading is available.  You, as an entity now in violation of the caps, must either pay a penalty for current operation or pay to raise efficiency.  What happens?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you cough up, or you collapse'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'anyway, capping and banning trading is a terrible idea'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'trading allows more productive industries to get the piece of the quota that they need, from areas that aren't as productive'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still better to just leave it alone and regulate the emissions of industry and power generation'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and the main reason why you bill seems to have "increased" 30% is largely because the pound has been falling like a rock. That and commodity prices aren't helping either. Don't put all the blame on taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's more efficient economically to tax or cap and trade - you get more reduction per cost to the economy'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the fault of retarded energy policy, we are an resource rich island, we should be energy independant'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'falling in comparison to what?  The US dollar?  energy costs are going up here, too.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not by that rate...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'GBP vs most currencies is stable and has been all year'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as you might know, high asian demand means that commodity prices aren't favourable'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'many companies negotiate long term contracts'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why we should be energy independant'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'takes time for cost increases, etc. to filter through sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gvmt could have had it solved years ago'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'energy independence would either require raising prices of energy, or lowering costs/regulation, to create enough incentive to exploit resources.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'require government investing directly'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not exactly a panacea...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that's a cost too'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, but also creates jobs'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'creates competition'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'either the govt will be running the company, or you're subsidising private companies'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'keep it nationalised'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless your govt is well run, better to leave it to private industry and regulate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's not a natural monopoly like healthcare or roads, after all'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better to have it in public ownership at least initially, maybe selling off or contracting out later'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'else it won't get built'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it used to be a natural monopoly, it still could be'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it will likely end up being a subsidy to some private investor, if it's spun off... they get cheap infrastructure and plant.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be no worse than it is now'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except it'll be insulated from price rises abroad'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it isn't getting built, it's because energy prices aren't high enough. It's likely to be much cheaper to get it from some dumb country willing to pollute itself'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i'm not dead, i intend to be fully energy and water self sufficient, so the fake green lobby and government can go screw themselves'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you and your little island?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'me and me only'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good luck with that...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't hard'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, elaborate.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in a lot of places here, there's a limit on rain barrels, and how you use the water.  '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'is there a reason they limit rain barrels?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'over in Nazi Germany, Razkin? or Oregon?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mosquitoes?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Illinois'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, fake green liberals Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'same thing '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'diseases?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's State trying to claim ownership of rainwater'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think they're outlawed back home too...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are there mosquitoes over there?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'west nile, deng, and the "don't be a dumbass and not boil the water first" types of diseases.  I suppose there might also be a bit of concern about kids big enough to climb in accidentally drowning themselves.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ah'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, heard it all now'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are always a lot of people who want the freedom to do stuff that endanger their neighbours though. sigh...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having a water butt in your back yard endangers your neighbours? wtf were they doing in your back yard?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hey, it's my property, why can't I put nitroglycerin and petrol in my garage and go smoke there?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can if you wish'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'but we can make ponds and lakes in back yards?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, barrels tend to accumulate stagnant water. Things like that are banned in many places'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'trampolines and swimming pools, Tiger...trampolines and swimming pools.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the water's running it's fine, usually'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's bordering on absurd'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even if you put signs and otherwise make reasonable efforts to keep folk off your stuff, if they ignore the warnings and get hurt using your trampoline or swimming in your pool/lake/pond, they and their family can sue the pants off you.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if you want to live in a place where you don't have to care about the safety of your community, there are plenty of such places. I'm afraid there's no internet access though...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shoot them, hans'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'problem solved'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if they break in??'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially if they break in'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the suing'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'are we talkin like a milk jug or like 100s of barrels '
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'about the only time you win is if they had to break a window or snap off a lock to get in.  It's not enough if they can just climb over a locked fence.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wtf is this where people can just wander into your back yard without permission?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i had neighbors collect rain water all the time, i never felt concerned for my health'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'anything that accumulates stagnant water is bad, in a mosquito prone area'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Midwest.  We're neighborly like that.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i had some stranger wandering around my back yard i'd beat him to death with a cricket bat'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'all ponds and lakes, so start gettin rid of em :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at the least threaten to'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even a jug or a pot, if it keeps water in it too long'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'well anything can potentially be bad, lets ban everything'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the sort of retarded rule that has screwed up the frog population and drainage, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, the larger the vessel, the better, since the water is less likely to be stagnant'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'everything can be used in the wrong manner or inappropriately, doesnt mean you ban it all :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and you can put fish in it too'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately here it's not illegal'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'yeah people down the block have a pond WITH fish it in <gasp>'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jesus fucking h christ on a bicycle, cyrep, CALL THE COPS!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'i know!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not illegal here, you're just liable.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Thats more a national guard kind of issue, Tiger'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, when the ill effects are a feature rather than a bug, and they outweigh the good...'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'dang, but i already dialed'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sonshi might fall into it and drown to death and then catch typhoid from the stagnated water!'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've got to DO something'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'been here for 24 years so if it was going to effect me in some way, it would have'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'grew up fine and healthy'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fish help keep the water safe from mosquitoes... generally a good idea to put a few in a large vessel of water'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know why, Cyrep?'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'so did my friends, i used to run through sewers, im fine :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's because it's a load of bollocks'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(not drinking water that is, stagnant water)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'rode my bike through them :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'I knew a guy who grew up near a lake. 30 years later? Bam. Herpes.'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bedtime :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'uh no pond water that was stagnant and connected to sewer drain pipes :p'
T3/r7/2012-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrep: 'rofl daloran'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Wow, impressive! A whole day without violent crime. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20536201'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Syria turns off internet'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's not surprising'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama penning secret executive order to turn control of internet in the US over to the UN'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the UK parliament contemplates new laws to regulate the press'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'them there's your headlines :-)'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the uk has lost most of it's millionaires'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so I've heard'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you want to take pleasure in George HW Bush being in hospital'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I thought it was bob dole in the hospital'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'happens every time they put taxes up'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Send the alternative press to CIA black sites if they don't write what they ought to write! Can't have people all confused and believing in weird conspiracy theories.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tinada, there was a short TV series on british tv, see if you can find/download it. It's called "The revolution will be televised"'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, didn't see Bush was in the hospital, course I've been sick today, so I haven't really done anything'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'sounds interesting'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of the sketches is "Dale Maily", a reporter whose strap line is "telling people what to think"'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's part sketch show, part real-world activism and wind-ups, it's well worth a look'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Palestine is a state?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'man, i spend one day not paying attention to the news and all sorts of stuff happens'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you see the news that the Head of the TSA claims that he and his organisation isn't accountable to Congress and refused to attend a congressional hearing?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be arresting his arse'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'didn't he say that a couple days ago?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'That was glorified by the media'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it's glorified by the media, but the long and short of it is if parliament demands your attendance, you attend'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it holds the same wait in law as a demands to appear in court'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weight*'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'The problem was actually that he was saying that the TSA is accountable to the House of Reps, not Congress.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true though, senate doesn't fund them'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'The problem is that nobody was "ordered" to appear.  They were asked, and he said no thanks.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's nonsense'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'congressional hearings are analogous to parliamentary hearings in the UK. Yes, you are right in that they 'ask''
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Nonsense or not, thats what happned.  NOt saying its the right thing or the smart thing.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but if they are refused, they can 'insist''
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'He could have been ordered.  Then he would have been obligated.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they insist and you refuse, you can be prosecuted'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they have any sense at all, they'll order him'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Palestine probably ought to be a state'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'palestine ought to be a state that includes all of israel in the pre-1945 borders'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel was born out of zionist terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that is slightly more complicated :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people have a blindspot when it comes to history'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'But as things are today, I don't see very good reasons not to let Palestinians have their own state.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aye'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though Egypt and Jordan have a lot to answer for when it comes to the suffering of the Palestinian people'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'aren't they still spoofing images of civilians dramatically suffering?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably, same tactic as the syrian free army have been using'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while at the same time blowing up their own mosques and blaming it on Assad'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any important news i've missed?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just China ramping up to release an 8-core processor using a new configuration not spawned by Intel or AMD.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll probably break'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i trust chinese tech about as far as i can throw it'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'tiger.. some of it is pretty light'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''light'?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'as opposed to heavy?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you hear the story of a UK foster family having 3 foster children removed from their care by a leftist local council social services because the family were members of the United Kingdom Independence Party'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'wanna know a couple of my city's urban legends?;)'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'There's the Philly Stabber & There's the E&J strangler..'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I laughed when I first heard about them but I stay alert'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'the Philly stabber smokes a phillies blunt they say.. & goes to sleep or looks like they sleep near ya.. Then when you least suspect it.. They stab the hell outta ya!'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I sometimes have heard they wait till YOU sleep.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'the E&J strangler well it's obvious.. They drink the alcoholic beverage & then choke the shit outta ya lol'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Let's wish each other the best of luck!'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'So far We've had helicopter's soaring around.. Soo uh seriously. Be careful'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'this another reason I have no problem gettin drunk or high by myself..'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'so if ya buy a weapon get the permits & Alert cops..'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'or ummm don't alert them'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'sometimes crazy killers get good paying jobs too;)'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you're gonna get drunk or high by yourself, make sure your lifealert bracelet works.  You're gonna fall at some point, and you might not be able to get up.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you have 2000qp and the next three things on your qp wishlist are sanc aura, gloves of dexterity, or aard bp.  Which would you choose and why?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Sanc aura. Because non dispellable sanc'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Sanc aura. It's always on.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Also, level 1, you'll be able to use it through the whole mort, every mort... the rest.. well you'll want to replace with better gear or higher level equivlents'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as a constant level 1, breastplate...defense, stats and hp/mana/moves which make a nice difference at level 1'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'I suppose I assumed he'd be leveling at some point'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we all level, eventually.  Can't very well do much of anything here if you don't.'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we do?'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '54k hours on daeric since v1 so far...'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Daeric is the only one'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no he's not'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's the most famous'
T3/r7/2012-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I tried qsitting at lvl 1 for a while... it got terribly boring and I ended up grinding after a couple days.'
T3/r7/2012-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hellion: 'im rdy when you are abandon :)'
T3/r7/2012-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) JaiMa: 'yo'
T3/r7/2012-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) JaiMa: 'either the shizzle is the dizzle, or my nizzle is going to sizzle.  Which is it!!'
T3/r7/2012-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'argle bargle!'