T3/r7/2014-04-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama' T3/r7/2014-04-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nato to hold military exercises in Ukraine, now tell me that isn't a provocative act' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flak: 'What are you wearing, Jake from State Farm?' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'uhh.. khakis..' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oooOoo, Russia could invade Ukraine in 12 hours notice, says Nato general. Scarey' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I think they could invade with under an hour's notice' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'He probably checked flight plans on some website' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..some heretics claim they already invaded, of course, the general might be a bit slow' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'as long as we're not fighting canada or mexico, let em have at it' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmmm and it turns out the EPA was testing deadly pollutants on humans, often without their permission' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all under the pretenses of pushing Obama's clean air agenda' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'it wasn't without their permission, but they didn't disclose all the risks to study participants.' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'it's not like they were sneaking car exhausts into your office when you weren't looking though' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, they have done things like that, but in this case, that's just as bad' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we won't mention the injecting thousands of black people with syphillis' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'meh, people signed up to do a study on harmful pollutants and be lab rats. what did they expect' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they expected to be told of the risks, one would think' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lesson learned, don't be a lab rat' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of reasons why you might want to be a lab rat' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, if you suffer from arthritis and you wanted to be part of a new treatment, you'd take it, but if they forgot to tell you it could kill you, you might rightly be pissed off' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but that is not a study on pollutants,"Here breathe these diesel fumes, we pay 50 bucks" no thank you' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the fact they didn't disclose things, but people need to think beforehand not after' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you're doing stuff like that as a government you need to be utterly above board' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do agree to a point, but people are told to trust their government' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't, gruagach calls you a tin foil hat wearer' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'trust no one, but yes they dropped the ball' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you've false accused others before' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'name it, zade' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'qed' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'qed isn't a false accusation' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tsk, feigning clueless and or obtuse' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'zade, why do i keep logging on this game and seeing you behave that way?' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'entertainment' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'its entertaining to you to act like a 16 year old?' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that high?' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the second debate over the EU, United Kingdom Independence party leader Nigel Farage beats Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (Fake Liberal Democrat Party) 68-32' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cough*biasedreporting*cough' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it was 68-27, i got that wrong :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '5 were undecided' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was the second victory in 2 debates, first one he won by a smaller margin' T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Germany they've established a lesbian-only cemetary. One wonders what would happen if someone wanted to establish a whites-only cemetery, or a men-only cemetery' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'oh gawd what are we blaming obama for today?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i have heartburn' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'all the misgivings of the US as a nation' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol dag' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i haven't been very active recently and can't always be here at the same time as nuts' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it all makes sense if you just do 'debate -h obama'' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'heh i was here for that convo' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'the clean air one i mean' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'physics sucks because noone can understand it anymore. that new discovery there.. some waves.. doing something.. screw that.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'mathematics has been there for years ;)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lame' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people understand physics just fine, apart from the media, who don't do science at all (as can be seen with the coverage of climate change)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'climate change, obama, abortion, gay marraige, military, gun rights, obama, entitlements, healthcare, marijuana legalization, obama. I miss anything?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it a list of?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'topics' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not exhaustive, but if you want a take on anything i'll merrily give you one' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm sure ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you missed feminism' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, feminism' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i was trying to keep it relevant' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have a campaign to ban 'bossy', but don't bat an eyelid at arab countries legalising marital rape' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol my 5 year old came home from kindergarten today and they had a talk about 'bossy' lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what did oyu want brought up?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'nothing really i was just taking a break from doing the budget lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'lol the 'ban bossy' campaign, i remember that' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'but im pretty sure feminists aren't fans of marital rape either' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah, feminists are mostly political diversions these days and deliberately so' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feminism is a fraud' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'why do you think that' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they're fighting fights that serve no purpose and ignoring real discrimination' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the point of banning the word bossy?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'feminism isn't just one thing. Some feminist sects are crazy, some are great.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'the ban bossy was one dumb thing a handful of people did' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'they dont in fact ignore real discrimination, they're constantly pointing it out' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where are the feminists trying to get people to value to role of mothers again?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'somebody retort "Tigernuts is a fraud"' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'feminists aren't doing that because gender roles are bullshit' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and that's one of the points that they make' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gender roles are not bullshit, unless you have an example of a man giving birth' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'having a baby is not a role all women have to take' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'Gender roles don't have anything to do with birthing..' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'they did the ban bossy thing at my daughter's school today actually. but i live in california for the time being so go figure' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what hte helll arey ou talking about' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having a baby is a role ONLY a woman can take' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'gender roles are culturally enforced life paths that society pressures people to take' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're being willfully dumb' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'Right, gender roles have nothing to do with what you can physically do or not. It's more about cultural expectations of behavior' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'that's not a gender role, it's a biological role' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'willfully dumb, so men CAN have babies?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'it's a biological role.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hindus and their discriminatory "caste system"' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a genuine one, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'the caste system is messed up, too.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'so you think all women should be forced into the role of a mother?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'not everyone wants kids' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and THATS THE POINT' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is forcing them into the role of a mother, Chippah? nobody' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's certainly true that the role of a mother has been devalued' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'society pressures women to have children, and that's a gender role. ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what are you talking about, how?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does not' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aardwolf and the pClass system' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'So should value women and men regardless of their choices (as long as those choices aren't hurting anybody)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm a stay at home dad with a military wife that lives in a town populated with Punjabi people.... i got all these topics covered lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'women should be valued if they are mothers just as much as if they are not mothers.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, i think what nuts is trying to get at is that a woman who chooses to stay at home with the kids has made a choice just as a woman who chooses to remain childless, and both choices should be legitimate choices for a woman to make.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who devalues the role of mothers? all the people pushing women to shove their kids into daycare at year 0 and have a career' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you sound like one of those asshole mens rights activists' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no one is pushing mothers to do that, they have to get jobs because the economy is fucked' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and some women want to have careers.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'nobody is pushing women to do that either, nuts' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then let them' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you are insane' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're seeing discrimination where it doesn't exist' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'Empowering women such that they feel ABLE to go out and have a career is great. But nobody forces anything, or nobody should anyway' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'where am i seeing discrimination that isnt real' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the one screaming and shouting' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'i don't remember 'screaming and shouting'' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? deb -h 20' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'i remember dismantling every argument you threw out there and making you look like an ass' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're insane!' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shouting "you're insane" isn't demolitioning an argument' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said modern feminism is mostly pointless shit and gave example of things they should are about (Zade gave one too)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually i dismantled your argument and THEN called you insane, because you sound like you stepped out of a fucking time machine from the 40s' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you haven't given anything to the argument' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then pray tell, let us know how western women are being discriminated against and what feminists are doing about it' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually i did, i corrected you on what feminism says, and i explained to you the difference between gender roles and the fact that women can have babies' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many gender roles and biological roles are linked in a fundamental way' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'women are constantly objectified in media, the internet, music, real life, everywhere' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'feminists speak out against that' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, chippah, and women -never- take advantage of that either' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"females are paid less" (because they may get pregnant or something)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true here, zade' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'so you're saying that it's okay to objectify women because some of them take advantage of the fact that they are treated like objects?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if women want to be objectified that's their choice' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'wow. tiger, are you and MRA?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a gender role' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and be honest, don't lie. ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what an mra is' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I'm not sure if he's trolling or a chauvinist' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'a mens rights activist' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't think feminism is l' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"female clothing is overpriced" (because "kept women" are supposed to be supported by rich men)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I actually think SOME MRA points are valid.. Where's the prostate cancer month? Why only men for selective services? Child custody favors the mother, still' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all true, marquess' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you have a half a point about the prostate cancer, although companies sponsor breast cancer because it has a sexual connotation to it' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you go about thinking that biology plays no part in gender roles, then you're probably a very unhappy person' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'gender roles are bullshit.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'so does prostate cancer... for some people... ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'lol' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'people who don't think gender roles are stupid are usually conservative christians' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'biology play a part in every single thing we do. But the thing is, we're all sentien and educated now, so we easily rise above it.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and we all know how reasonable those people are' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'we aren't slaves to what our biology wants to make us' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because you have free will to choose doesn't mean that gender doesn't make you better suited to certain things' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'well, I don't necessarily think we have free will. But gender roles aren't even about being better at something, either' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no one is saying there aren't differences between sexes' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'that isnt what a 'gender role' is, ane xample is toys for little girls are always princesses and pink and playing house and shit' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are differences between "races"' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'it may be stupid, but the whole thing with gender roles is simply that some people feel more comfortable identifying as something other than what their culture would label them. And it's just a matter of respect to let them pick their own label. To not do so is to think you know more about them than they do' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'we push girls to be pretty princesses and we teach boys to be superheroes and build things and be creative with their toys' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there's nothing wrong with that' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'YES THERE IS' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, there isn't' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'yeah, there really is.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you realize that makes you a bad person by saying that, right?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, no there really isn't' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're a caveman' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'th is isn't the 1950s' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Americans "push" immigrants and mexicans to be cheap labour' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your point of view was tried in the education system in the 1960s and it left a whole generation of people with a deeply substandard education' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I remember I came home with a rolly poly in a bowl, and I was trying to "feed" it and take care of it. Well my dad made me feel like a sissy girl for playing with a bug, so I took it outside and squashed it' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'the making boys identify with superhero's really is detrimental' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'women are people who can make their own choices. they don't need people like you to make them for them' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'that's a pretty trivial story, but that crushed something inside of me. And it was all because of some fake, arbitrary, cultural thing that my dad had in his head that I shouldn't do that' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'how's this for discrimination and gender roles... i'm a stay at home dad so i do all the things a stay at home mom does but i STILL have to take care of the cars, lawn, pool, home maintenace, etc... sheesh..' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what are you talking about tiger, that's a wrong' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'forcing kids into something is bad, encouraging them to do things isn't' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Vaporz. T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit of a difference between buying your 3yr old boy a toy car and forcing him to play with one' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'its bad to encourage girls to aspire to be pretty like barbie instead of stimulating them intellectually' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and if you disagree with that, you're a horrible human being' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but is Mr Chatterly's gardener a female' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is there anything wrong with encouraging a girl to play with a baby doll and take care of him? is it wrong to encourage them to do creative arty things?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it wrong to encourage a girl to play nurse?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'what you should do is show your child every option: being pretty or tomboyish, action figures or stuffed animals, playin outside vs books, whatever' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you're objecting to is damaging behaviour, not gender-specific' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you shouldn't encourage a child into a gender defined career or life path, you let them decide what THEY want to do' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'more often than not girls will pick "girl" things, and boys will pick "boy" things, and that's fine. But the thing is giving the option, and not making your child feel weird for picking the unusual one' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dont let your kids to read books! look at me now, look at all of you people! playing mud, 40-50 years old' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, marquess, this whole idea of forcing kids was chippah's thing' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually it's your thing, you're the one who thinks it's awesome' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't really have much to do with feminism' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually no, that's just a figment of your imagination because you think you're talking to someone with diametric views to yourself' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I personally hate the term 'feminism' even though I'm pretty left-wing feminist type myself. I like humanist, and saying that I'm for gender equality' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no, it isn't.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I think the term "feminist" is inherently sexist' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe in equal opportunity, or equal outcome' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and I dont agree with feminists on a lot of shit as well, i hate their language policing nonsense' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'but fundamentally, they're correct in the things that they say' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I more or less agree chippah' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're obsolete' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(here)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should fight for the rights of women in asia, they're the ones being fucked over' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you just ignore discrimination because you're a white man and it doesn't affect you' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'they aren't in asia, they're here. ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a white single man, i'm in the single most discriminated group in my country' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and there's still a lot more ground to cover in terms of equality in america' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'HAHAHAHAHAHAHA' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'poor mr white man discriminated against in america' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not in america' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you're single tiger? no way' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'where are you' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'hahah vapors' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'okay well you're still wrong then' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a big problem with positive discrimination here' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'and whites don't get any positive discrimination' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no, you're still top dog - you just hate that you're moving more towards equal footing' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do, marquess, it's all part of a rabid political-correctness agenda' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'so you perceive every instance of a minority receiving help as a slight against you' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts changed from "colored brother" to "white man" - Tigernuts is a liar' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm only black when talking to the police, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'is it wrong to get my daughter a pink crossbow for Easter?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and when Tiogernuts is supporting hispanic jews to murder afro-americans' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, vaporz, you're a bad person' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and clearly racist' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by buying her a pink item of clothing you are permanently diminishing her life chances and causing emotional turmoil ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'expect CPS knocking at your door any minute' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'afk, putting baby to sleep' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'CPS (Child Pedophile Supply) is a known for bad decisions leading to the death of children' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i heard the horror stories too, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'tigernuts wow way to miss the point' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok, but try to do it in a gender neutral way :)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's because they get paid per child 'rescued'' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no they don't, that cant possibly be true.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the point is that you've failed to point out any way in which women are discriminated against here' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and what's better, NOT removing kids from abusive homes?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'chippah that would be better than making them homeless, right?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually i did. I said they're routinely objectified in all aspects of society and you brushed it off' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's better is removing kids from abusive homes and NOT removing them from NOT abusive homes' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'why not just remove the abuser instead' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'i could give you 50 examples and you wouldnt suggest a single one' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'objectification of women is not discrimination' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'vampire that doesn't make sense. Remove the parent and let the kid be homeless?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'men are equally objectified' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no they aren't.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger it is when they start being discardable broken down old objects' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're wrong.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes tehy fucking are' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no they aren't. sorry.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'chippah, men get objectified too' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'not like women do' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'there's chicks out there that see them as piggy banks and workhorses for example' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you a man, or just a dyke?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'go on any reddit thread with a picture of a girl - there will be a shit ton of posts talking about how they want to fuck her' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do the same thing to a gathering of women with a picture of a nice looking man and you'll get the same' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'a 'dyke', listen to you calling people dykes, you're a fucking idiot' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'transferring children from "politically-incorrect opinion" homes to phyusically-abusive vhomes where the children are murdered is a heinous crime by the CPS' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no one is transferred from politically incorrect homes' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to understand the reason behind your absurdly one-sided view of the world' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'that is a fantasy created by idiots' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'forcibly transferring children from "politically-incorrect opinion" homes to physically-abusive homes where the children are murdered, is a heinous crime by the CPS' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're making yourself look a spoiled little brat tigernuts.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? your entire argument is based on the fact that men 'objectify' women. It's wafer-thin' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you disagree with the objectification of -people- then great' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no it isn't you little shithead, that was a single example i gave you of discriminaton' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except it's not one-sided' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you are a psychotic loser, i'm turning this channel off' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's one bitter puppy' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you leave, you miss out on the practice of debating (silently insert expletives here)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'Zade, never argue with an idiot, he will always win' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll have to tell all the women in the office tomorrow that men are never objectified, they'll piss themselves' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'disgusting misogynist misuse of the p***-word, Tigernuts' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry zade, what is the the politically correct version to replace it?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(that is gender neutral)_' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(no laugh-track)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll manage' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's why feminism isn't on Vaporz' list of topics' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exploding feminist syndrome' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"i'll have to tell all the women in the office tomorrow that (insert inflammatory? witticism here)" (no laugh-track) (you supply the laughs) (if any) (or the stern silence) ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the life of the party, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'think that the economy is awful - most people cannot calculate anything. every economy stands on the zillion shoulders of "psychological math processors". myself included. (im drunk, forget if something is wrong here now)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is a psychological math processor?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the simplest one: beautiful=expensive' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sound money is a racist thing. if you believe in paying your way and not having debt you're one of those crazy conspiracy theorists' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i think that's what the issue is - debt and stupid economics is seen as trendy' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'beautiful = free' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no. beautiful=fuck me but give me all your money:p' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you just slip back into the feminism argument?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oh.. there was this feminism discussion.. no. didn't follow it' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what's your take on economics then?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'psychological numbers.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give us an example' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no matter how many people doing a strike. no difference at all. the outcome will be -12%' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'my take on economics i learned fom my grandmother... if you can't pay for it with cash you don't need it (unless it's food, water, shelter :P) that last bit was my amendment' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '8-18%' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'fuck' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '8-12%' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-12% to what?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '10 is a good number. everyone is happy' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '1+%' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '10%' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'shit' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and by "cash" i simply mean money already earned' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'economics is human/consumer behavior *shrug*' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'too drunk for debate' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most sense i've heard all night, Hwuai' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nah. the "psychological number" is my invention. im gonna get it trademarked or something.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'i prefer philosophical numbers.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'first ima get some rules for it. like "everyone goes crazy if its gonna cost 2x more than before".. aso' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing like 'friendly' numbers i keep hearing about, is it?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the change from saving to buy, and buying on tick has happened within a generation' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'nah, 2 generations the last generation to save was WW2 generation' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here, 1970s' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it got pretty hairy here in the 1970s' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'then the baby boomers spent and now this generation buys on credit' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'yeah here is all i can speak abnout' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there are a large number of people with good incomes who are one missed paycheck from not being able to pay the bills.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think there really needs to be a serious economic event that causes a lot of bankruptcies' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a shame they bailed out the banks, big mistake' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mortgages are next up for bailout' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd better not bail them' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so you'd like people to no longer trust in banks' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't trust them now, zade' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you bail out mortgages too, you might as well admit that you live in a fascist society' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the banks are more reliable than in your pathetic scenario, Tigernuts' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're even talking about getting rid of Fannie and Freddie.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that Barack Obama was deliberately incompetent - but then that is likely what an "uncle tom" lackey-to-the-rich does' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they're reliable when the government uses your money to back them up' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or perhaps he accomplished everything he set out to do, Zade.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but lets see, the banks lobbied for regulation, then used people's money to make reckless bets that screwed up the market, then got taxpayers to bail them out. Where's the penalty for taking risks and failing, exactly?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's to stop them doing it again?' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banks must be allowed to fail, it's essential for the markets to work properly' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly would've cost less' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hence the "deliberately" incompetent -- Barack Obama was treacherous and underhanded ' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'well plenty of the smaller banks fail so the bigger banks can gobble them up :p' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is a puppet' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many economic commentators still claim the big banks are essentially insolvent and may yet fail' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope they're right' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if they are, they'll need a good scandal to keep them afloat. Like GM did.' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the bailout may've been worded to heavily penalise the personnel, Ceos, directors, of the banks (cut their salaraies, no bonuses, long jail terms in hard labour prisons)' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kobus: 'hrm....' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps a few lengthy drawn-out public floggings to the death of the crooks running the banks' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'we can't even get the wealthy to serve the proper sentances let alone something extreme like that' T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/03/31/american-justice-for-the-wealthy-no-prison-for-du-pont-heir-convicted-of-sexually-molesting-his-child-because-he-would-not-fare-well-in-jail/' T3/r7/2014-04-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, the socialist chairman of UK parliament's climate committee want a crackdown on people who don't toe the government line on climate change, including making it harder for them to get airtime on tv and radio' T3/r7/2014-04-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '0h4 ' T3/r7/2014-04-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama' T3/r7/2014-04-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ooh, an AirAsia magazine editor's getting disciplinary action for a boastful article about not losing a plane because it was written and printed far in advance of some other airline's lost-plane crisis.' T3/r7/2014-04-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'double after this double' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Peaches Geldof found dead at aged 25. Another victim of pointless celebrity culture, no doubt' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's some fucked up goings on in the Dave Bundy case - people attacked and arrested for filming from the side of a highway' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Boston, people re being arrested for trespass on public property if they refuse to be searched by transit police' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, lovely, tripedia's dtap vaccine hasn't been tested for carcinogenic, mutenogenic, or fertility effects, and lists as it's possible sideeffects: autism' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'is it still going on?!' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which?' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'that autism thing.' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, yeah' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was decided a couple of decades ago that the potential risk to health from vaccines were outweighed by the benefits to the pharmaceutical industry, so they set up a court to shield the companies from any kind of legal challenge that would force the risks to be priced in' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccination might be good on balance for mankind, it certainly isn't always good at a personal level, and not all vaccinations are either good or even effective. It's a bit of a kid-in-the-candy-shop job for the pharma industry' T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yay! The US navy is soon going to be making fuel in situ from seawater.' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should i include sevastopol on the multiplicity of a visa application, or ' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'wait for it to be calmer' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i really wanna see bokhara only its not russia anymore.' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sigh.' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'does vector algebra exist?' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't give an ai + bj + ck about vector algebra. I my divergence curls at the sight of nabla!' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: '^' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not content with screwing up the world and trying to make the people pay for it, the global elite are now suggesting that the "plan B" for climate change will be to move people into climate controlled supercities' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"climate controlled supercities", a possible codeword for "euthanisation centres"' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, just agenda 21 hell holes where you'll be expected to be crammed into 250sq.ft apartments and have your calorific intake closely controlled by the state' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like they're already legislating' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is likely reading "The Onion" ' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'just think of the opertunities!' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local and UN planning police, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'minimum building density here is now 28/hectare' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'every bit of legislation to do with planning and housing puts house prices up' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sooner WW3 breaks out the better' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is trolling badly ' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything is trolling to you' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Necroshine was more informative than Tigernuts' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well when you have something to say, let's hear it' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'preferably in analog format, you know how badly digital opinions are reproduced' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the NIPCC report on climate change is a bit dense at 1063 pages' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"(This page left intentionally blank.)" - (except for the parenthetical footnote) -- if there, 1062' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1062 is not blank' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1062 is the tail end of an appendix showing the growth response of a large number of common plant species to increased CO2 concentrations' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'burning fossil fuels will help feed the world's growing population' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(to a point)' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rising ocean waters from increased CO2 may assist in reducing the numbers to feed' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it won't, unless you plan on putting concrete boots on people in coastal areas and chucking them in the sea' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am in a position to give you an accurate measurement of how much the sea levels have risen here in the last 32 years' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zero' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lowering the standard-of-living by offloading soon-to-be-drowning immigrants into other countries, shall permit further exploitation of those countries ' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no immigrants will be drowning unless they're africans on those smuggling boats, or unless you plan on drowning them' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so all that work on the Thames River to prevent tidal flooding from rising sea levels was ..' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was to pretect from tidal flooding, not rising sea levels' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sea levels would barely have to rise at all to overwhelm them' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Tigernuts wants more of his "affrican brothers" where Tigernuts resides' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a friend of mine advocates euthenising everyone with an IQ under 130, i might agree with him with comments like that, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it happens, the population density of this island needs to be reduced by more then 50% for it to be a sustainable, green, country' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'climate change predictions suggest that the food potential of Africa will significantly improve' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps the UN is hinting that Africa requires more "dustbowls" - did the USA reclaim the dustbowls for vegetation yet' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN disregards data inconvenient to it's narrative, it'll keep on pushing for a banker-owned world using NATO as it's jackboots' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what the USSR did to central asia (in the pursuit of growing cotton) was an ecological crime (of gross incompetence)' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Russians also sabotaged the Obamacare website and force millions of people off their health plan, putting premiums up for everyone' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn that Putin, he's such an arsehole' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'AND he set off that Ebola outbreak in Guinea' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a chance for Dagnir to type: debate thanks putin' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he said that, he's clearly pro-Putin and therefore an enemy of the free world' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so by inference, Tigernuts may perhaps be acknowledging that Dagnir is pro-Obama' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's a front - by so publically and repeatedly backing someone who is clearly a creature of corporations and the mafia, Dagnir is showing himself to be pro-Putin and therefore an enemy of the free world' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by thanking Obama, he is implying that Obama has specifically made something positive happen, when he should know that positive outcomes can only come from the state. By showing he doesn't believe this, he also shows he is an enemy of the free world' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'George W Bush said it himself, you're either with him, or you're with the terrorists' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you wouldn't disrespect the office of the president by disagreeing, would you? That's a criminal act' T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's sedition!' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you are welcome' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'when did disagreements in schools turn to weapons instead of fists?' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has been suggested that US troops might be sent to eastern europe' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'interestingly, americans who don't know where it is are much more likely to favor intervention' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'I wonder how many Americans would support invading Middle Earth.' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're more likely to be able to find middle earth on a map than Ukraine. a Recent survey shows only a 16% success rate' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm guessing about 15-20%, based on a superficial resemblance to the middle east' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what's worse: that 84% of americans don't know where ukraine is, or that they can vote' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't we round up all the stupid people and make them fight to the death?' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20 people stabbed at pennsylvanian high school - time to ban all knives' T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'There may be no one killed in that attack, unlikely that would have happened with a gun.' T3/r7/2014-04-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK wasted $750mn pounds on useless Tamiflu stocks, USA wasted over $1bn, that's what you get for letting your government be bought off by pharmaceutical corporations' T3/r7/2014-04-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and...... militia from across the US descends on the Bundy ranch in Nevada to defend them from Federal overeach' T3/r7/2014-04-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds pretty dangerous' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks Dagnir' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Queens Speech June: Fracking companies will be legally allowed to trespass on peoples land and screw it up by paying only 100 quid in compensation' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'From the Miss North Carolina organization: "It is our hope that our wonderful North Carolinians will also support Johna [Miss North Carolina] in her statewide efforts to eliminate literacy"' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'This state is awesome' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'who needs literacy' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"She has also diligently promoted her platform of eliminating literacy every week since she was crowned last June."' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head. T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'Charity starts at home :p' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just think, the democrats want everyone to be like her' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'See, that's why I started this conversation on debate channel.' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Knew it was the right place' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts -) T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry i was late' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never understood why they let beauty pageant contestants speak in the US, they never did in the Uk when they still did them' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(back in the 1970s)' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't broadcasting them trying to talk a bit like mocking spastics?' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'I dont understand why we still think beauty is something that can be judged' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it can, like singing can' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact it's subjective isn't really relevent' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Oh, but they have talent portions of the beauty pageants now, too' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably has to do with feminists and/or self-titled progressives' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't they just be pretty?' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'btw, regarding "back when they still did them in the Uk"...the current Miss Universe Great Britain is Amy Willerton from Bristol (she was Miss London 2012)' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't televise such things, they aren't big business' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't personal object to such contests, it was just the silly americanised versions i was ridiculing' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe they'll do a version where they're topless and stick it on BBC3' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently a 6.6 magnitude earthquake struck nicaragua' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: '21m Earthquake: M 6.6 - 11km ESE of Nandaime, Nicaragua' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a tiddler' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what we want is a magnitude 9.0 centred on DC' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'putin vs obama - who is richer?' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably putin, until Obama's speaking tour kicks off' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'think POTUS salary is something like $110K' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people in high office don't get most of their wealth from salary, but from inside trading and backhanders' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'POTUS hasn't had his wealth tied to the POTUS salary in hundreds of years...' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'putin already has 28$bil worth of things' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Oh, it's $400K now. More than I thought' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'still, less than it's ever been' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '(adjusted value)' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much irrelevent, what are his expenses that aren't covered by the state?' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'He gets $169K on top of that for expenses' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Has to buy his own food in the white house, has to pay for his own laundry to be done' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'his wife takes care of that.' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'do they have mexican housekeepers in white house?' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said, the POTUS salary is about the last thing you need to worry about' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if you are the president of usa, you can print a book every year and get 5mil' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or publish a cd and get 10' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i hate my president:( he is a joke' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'politician, they're nearly all a joke' T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal nods at a tiger. T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade looks at Obama and chants, "H! E! R! O!... Obama is a Hero!!!" T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. wolfenstein, doom, quake.. i never really liked them, these were the 1st of their kind but still.. whatever was the 2nd after, was better.' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are we talking originals, or franchises as a whole?' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'wolf - 1st 3d game(with textures), doom with nice advanced angled walls and a bit of this and that, and quake - free look and stuff.. but they were boring.' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'boring? thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: '...but bush' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'edwardo cruz is our only hope' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i hope americans arent too coward to vote for him' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'descent was exiting, ut was awesome, halflife had soo cool atmosphere.. and then doom3 came and tried to do it once again.., i hated that game so much (by the end:p)' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'half life was awesome. thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the UN thinks Black Pete might be a racist.' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'of course they do. Lots of chars like him are a product of a different time when views of ppl were different.' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then again, you produce and deposit millions of sperm but only one and sometimes a few more (but never more than 8) get egg access. The rest die off due to the extremely hostile environment you abandoned them to.' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cattibre: 'non-partisan, democratic world government please' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cattibre: 'discuss' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in Connecticut, a 16yo is sent to prison despite not being convicted of any crime...' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'there's a guy serving life without parole for lending his car - felony murder rule' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'in florida' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'but I'd like to see that article' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trepid: 'what about the 16 yr old in prison?' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://news.yahoo.com/why-trans-teen-being-sent-prison-she-hasnt-211624041.html' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trepid: 'that sounds confusing. what the heck' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'basically, they don't know where to place "her" due to a law meant to prevent prison rape.' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trepid: 'weird' T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'being a "her" by itentity, if they follow the "below the belt" rule of thumb they're effectively sending a female to a male prison (should she be transferred) or allow what is probably a fully-functional penis to moreorless run unfettered in the women's prison system.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'or maybe debate that question actially' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i say aoe generally especially large rooms while cping' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alerno: 'aoe is faster and you get more xpm than single targeting the mobs' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Askani: 'aoe if you can tank all the mobs in the room, if you can't, then single spell' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'good way to get extra tps aarch pieces etc' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it actually can be slightly faster to lv by initiate with skills and do like two mobs at a time unless they just die too fast' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Dagnir' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh the selfestemeee guy?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'que?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'pasa?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'murky boobcups' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what ever i did - you're welcomeu' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'unless it was his mom.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'that's not the sort of thing you can tell him he's welcome for.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'how would one determine or calculate the interest rate that a stock experienced during ten years' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'r = antilog((log(f/p))/n) - 1' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'f=final, p=principal, n=numberintervals, r=interestfraction' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'ok thanks just one more question what is antilog?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(hrm, not homework)' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'nvm i got it' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'looking at the inexpensive ($6) scientific calculator, the 10^x is there reverse of log(x), perhaps the base10 antilog(x) = 10^x ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'looking at the inexpensive ($6) scientific calculator, the 10^x is the reverse of log(x), the base10 antilog is 10^x , the baseY antilog(x) is Y^x (where usually Y > 1) ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'f=p(1+r)^n , log(f)=log(p) + n(log(1+r)) , (log(f/p))/n = log(1+r) , r = (antilog((log(f/p))/n) - 1) ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'am I having one of those college flashback nightmares, again?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a refresher is educational' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of those analogue scientific calculators, of course' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the inexpensive calculator is circuit-based, and not exactly full "digital", the screen does display "digits" and other symbols' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'circuits use the analog effect of moving electrons' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like people power won the first round in Nevada' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'is the LCS on this weekend?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what is LCS' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what he said' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'LoL tournmant' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'LimeyC***S*****s' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see Zade's returning to racism' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the stalwart crutch of the far left' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, if you are going to use racist acronym cusswords, ..' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'LCS' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'read channel history once more....' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'type "debate -h lcs", see where tiger used that term...' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Dagnir' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm still confused.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no need to be confused, Zade's just being usual Zade, speaking nonsense' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i am refering to blackmagik's use of the acronym.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe LCSers do some LCSing this weekend -- but BlackMagik used the acronym, and Tifgernuts dived in with vile accusations of "far left"' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, jopari used the acronym, you jumped up to give that acronym a racist definition, and tigernuts called you out on it' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and that's why i'm still confused.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'oh well, cest la vie.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'LoL Tournament...League of Legends' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jopari said "what is LCS"' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want some real racism, watch Eric Holder's diatribe: http://tinyurl.com/kc8a6r9' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'afk, runescapin' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's that to do with LCS?#' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ignore #' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'LCS, LoL Championship Series' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'it is awesome' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'in a moba sorta way' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it as pointless as facebook?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'if you consider winnning millions of dollars playing a game pointless' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'then yes' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'otherwise, no' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts mumbled something about Nevada, BlackMagic may've called them LCSers, Jopari requested the acronym be explained, Zade provided an UrbanDictionmary interpretation, Tigernuts resorted to vile namecalling, ..' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'whoa. that is pointless, millions of dollars spent for people playing games?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'people spend $800,000 per hour on candy crush..gaming is big' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'just as pointless as any other sport' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, my cousin won 30k playing at an NHL [console] game tournament' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're a bit rubbish though' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that was for second place' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sports is at least good for you, name a tangible benefit from gaming that isn't money.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ask the air force' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'usin ur brain matter' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a very valuable skill for them' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who do you think pilots the drones?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'games are fine, just a shame they've been ruined recently' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perfect, we've got gamers piloting drones?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who would be more qualified?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'playing sports being useful for staying physical fit has no bearing in justification it is more worthy of billions in dollars of revenue for people to watch it.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'paying to watch a sporting even has as much physical benefit as paying to watch a video game tournament to the viewer' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade perks up: "games ruined", how T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'by adding pictures' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by making them all online multiplayer rather than being single player vs the computer' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by making them generic vs having a point/plot/start/end' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'on both sides of the gaming tournament you lose, not just on the viewer's end as in sports.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'by making you need to pay to have a decent chance.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Jopari. T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the money-making model hasn't helped game quality' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's one of the reasons i'm here actually.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wow, we just had a decent debate start up, then it just...died.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because we agreed' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'couch potatoes watching sports does not provide the couch potatoes much exercise' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that was already covered, zade' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'looking at both sides, sports is more beneficial.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'acknowledged, however no one countered my piint.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'video game tournaments provide a lot of finger exercise' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'stiumlation' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'carpal tunnel syndrome.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'my left hand gives me stimulation' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what pint was yours?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'guinness' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'point, i meant as in that sports competitors receive benefits while viewers suffer on both ends.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'what?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for a very narrow view of suffer' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perhaps.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unless someone can show that watching video games is better than sports.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'yeah not sure how I suffer from watching gaming tournaments, sure is a lot less then all the concussions from sports though' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's neither better nor worse' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'they are equal though..' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there my point is made.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'lol?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'watching games tournaments can be argued to be an alternative to real clan-based conquest' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as viewers are in the same condition, players are not.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put in that context you could argue you are becoming less of a man by watching sports' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'players are not is debatable' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'clan-based conquest?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clan/community/family/social group' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'm so confused.. what are you even trying to say jopari' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'give me a sec, grugach, and i'll organise my thoughts.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'soccer games are more dangerous to some of the audience at the stadium' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'the last hockey game I went to a puck flew over the glass and smashed my knee, had a bruise for like a week' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yet to hear of video game hooligans' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yah, in those countries that cant afford any other sports and have nothing else going on for them...it is pretty much all there is to do in the entire country..its easy to get heavily invested' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'haha soccer is for the poor' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'viewers of both sports and video games are in the same condition, while it's players are in different condutions due to actions performed.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sports are an opiate of the masses' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'distract them from the fact that they're being screwed' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, have you seen their paychecks?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'physical atheless are in better shape than e-sport athleets? k' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'as much an opiate as alcohol or cigs or women' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would say more so, kojiro' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the big leaguers make a lot the ninorbguys make a little' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perhaps, then it would be the same as video gaming tournaments, huge rewards for the few.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i feel like professional soccer would be so much less fun than highly skilled casual soccer' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'thats how the world works dog' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully the feminist brigade will come along and get sports banend' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the special are the few and they get paid special' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banned*' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i debated that topic once, tigernuts, it was darn fun.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'why do feminists care about sports' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, as it is a common factor, it's pretty irrelevant in the debate.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'guys dont give a shit avout soaps or talk shows' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a male-dominated endeavour, kojiro' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'because they arent involved, and their husbands care more about the players than their work gossip' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'supposedly because they want equal representation.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already have equal representation, jopari' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though in this case, feminist should be replaced with female supremacist, ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same thing, jopari' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no point sullying the names of the few who actually do act upon it's original meaning. ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i would hire a female over a similarly qualified man. not just for social reasons but bc women are more pleasant and maybe i cld fuck her' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, seriously?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, says the married guy with a newborn...' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Kojiro is talking bs, and does not believe what Kojiro is saying' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yea, why?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'my wife would of course be in on the action' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'no, that will happen in your life man..give it up' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'she has ultimate approval in these things' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'so beta, dont say things like that outloud man' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you use cusswords, you doubt what you are saying and or you are wrong' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'stop, please. i don't really want to go there.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'oh and women are just better workers' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'depends on the person and their backround, trollolo statment' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'originally feminism aimed for equality between the sexes, then, some people hijacked it to give them better lives, while masquarading under the idea of feminism.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'eventually feminist and female supremacist became the same in the eye of the public.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'not in my eye' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's now just a devisive political tool' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'his 3rd eye..giggity' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what isn't in your eye, kojiro?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i dont mibd feminists as lobg as they are reasonable. like the sexes have major differences' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and stats show women are majority grads in the us increasibgly even in professional schools' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you missed a feminist on here a few days ago, she definitely wasn't reasonable' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ilater incarnation?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'later*' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"hijacked" (feminism) to give them better lives -- as though Jopari (the misgynist) does not believe that females deserve "better lives"' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's the point kojiro, equal chances to make it, if you work harder, you get it.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'personally i find college adminisitrations synpathy for womens groups disturbing when stats clearly show its the male gender which struggles. but they do better in the corporate world on avg' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'being a white male in america means you are garbage' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hard to say, women are breaking the glass ceiling.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well everyone except feminists realise tha, gruagach' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if thats the social value there are a lot bigger fish to fry.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what social value?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you get no hand outs, you get overlooked for promotions, you are always considered to have a silver spoon even if you are just as poor as the next person' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they break the glass ceiling, they can bloody clear it up' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'meritocracy' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'good point kojiro.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"but 'they' do" is ambiguous, as "they" is not specified - Kojiro is obfuscating ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'im not menstruating' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'zade, that's a bit of a jump.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you need to menstruate then, kojiro' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, he means aiming to confuse.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly. T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'oh' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'well hes the one obflustering' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jopari (the misogynist again) is accusing females of vandalism, "breaking glass ceilings", tsk' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'uhh, glass ceiling, the social studies idea i think.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts (also the misogynist) pictures a "bloody" cleanup resulting from the breaking of glass by females' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'whats ur pt' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry people, need to sleep, here it's about 3 a.m. G'night.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i love women especially when they are down to party' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love women when they're over there and objectified' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'which im guessing coincides with ovulation. they cabt really cobtrol those implses' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, i mean that equality is happening, just that now the scales are tipping in the opposite too much.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'in some places i think yes in some places no' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but men and women have different ibterests generally so wld expect different representation' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'fewer fenale sciebtists and ebgibeers is bot a shock. and nobody keeping them out.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"just that now the scales are tipping in the opposite too much" <-- that (Jopari) argument was used 50 years ago to suppress females ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i doubt that' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade more women graduate college than men. think avout that.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'maybe thats really important when it cones to sone view that females are disadvantages' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think it has, back in 1972 a study indicated they receive shorter sentences frlor the same crimes.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women are discriminated against in many asian and african countries, in the west, i can't think of any instutionalised sexism' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'females require to be much better merely to compete with males' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'ahahahahahahaha' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'proof, zade' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'forget the date, i'm probably wrong.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'fiendish said it best' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes i think Zade lives in 1890' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'back then i think chivalry was in effect.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts needs his nuts made into peanut butter powder!' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts gasps as he realizes what Turie did. T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what?!' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll have you know that my nuts are an endangered species protected by UNESCO' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade if me and a woman were on titanic and one life jckt id take it by force' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'always classy, Koji, always classy...' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'even in the last century, males were saying that females did not deserve to be paid as much for the same or more work because "they may get pregnant and take some time odff" (so they may cheat and pay them less)' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'unless it was my wife bc i love her' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'maybe not kojiro, people have done stupider things.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the truth can be stark and revealing abe. try it sometime' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's all I know' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dude, last century evidence for current century argument?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'somehow slavery too righr zade' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'truth is revealing, kind of in it's nature.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what do you mean kojiro?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'im anticpatibg zades next clever argument' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'slavery is alive and kicking' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'tigernuts is right there.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yep, Jopari is attempting to continue the misogynism of the last century into this century (by using similar and different arguments)' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the similar argument is now supported by current evidence, as such, you can't dismiss it by saying, 'that's last century!'' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if that were so, women would never have been able to try for equal rights.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade dont let your emotions blind your logic' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'last century misogynist argument: "women are underpaid, but to pay women fairly 'd cost too much and 'd ruin the economy, so they must be paid less"' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'women are paid equally now, i hope for it to stay that way.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'laws, remember laura cox?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Slavery is alive and kicking Tigernuts' nuts.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i am not a misogynist, asking for equality isn't being sexist.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'turie, your obsession with his nuts is disturbing.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turie's just doing his Zade impersonation' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'maybe turie is ovulating' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I thought it was more of a merger of Zade and Kojiro.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly. T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'saying that "woman are paid equally" when they are yet paid less, and then adding "hope for it to stay that way" is misogynistic' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts is just mad some woman gets paid more than him is all and got that promotion he wanted.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade what about maternity risk to an employer' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not much greater than paternity risk' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'currently they are paid approximately the same for equal work, the only reason people say the gap is as large as they say it is is because they don't factor in working hours' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'rather working days.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in many countries (US in particular), men have just as much right to take time off as women for having baby' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but it is greater and tgats my pt' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'legally it's not greater' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'FMLA covers both the same' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'In the U.S., median income for full-time, year-round women is $37.8K. Median for full-time, year-round men is $49.4K' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I believe that both parents should have the right to be at home for the first 6-weeks on the child's life.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'this isnt about fmla. a man works until baby born. woman takes last but off.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'median within what jobs, madcatz?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now compare like with like, madcatz' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in the US, men and women are given exactly the same amount of time off for parents. It's just that the man culture puts pressure on the man to get back to work faster.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is about fmla, as that's the only thing which legally allows either to take off...and men don't have to work until baby's born' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'full-time, year-round jobs in the U.S.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'plus a woman is more likely to give up job for baby' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still not like for like' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's very vague madcatz.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you're comparing janitors to doctors...' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'yes' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'My point was that Jopari's point is "the pay gap is due to less working days/hours" wasn't valid.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'this isnt about the lae gooofy its about employer cost and therefore employee atra tiveness' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the pay gap is largely due to different roles women take' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'lae goofy?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I agree, Tigernuts' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'But that doesn't make it OK' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it does' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'law goofy' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it makes it fine' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it most surely does make it ok' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Just like there are societal reasons that caucasians make better grades in schools than african-americans' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'doesn't make it OK' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unless you're advocating that janitors should make the same as doctors' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the same, madcatz' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, then your argument mean all employers are male.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'You can say that women get paid less because they take lower paying jobs. That's a fine argument to make. It ignores the fact that society treats children differently based on sex.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'catz u need data intra profession' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'No, I'm advocating that there shouldn't be societal pressures on women that force them into lower-paying jobs' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not forced into lower-paying jobs' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so more females graduate, but on average they are paid less -- yep, biased discrimination' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Not "forced", OK' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Society in the US treats people differently due to skin colour.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'But still pushed towards them' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that is grasping at straws, unless it proven women have far better grades in the fields specified.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'which is why the jobs you refer to is important.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'nobody forced them to pursue lower paying fields. its not 1950 where woman was a.nurse not a dr' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, zade, women are currently representing better as top bread-winners than men are.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'a female enployee has higher costs than a male' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'thats just biology of motherhood' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Why are there more men than in science and math fields in college, both undergrad and graduate? Unless you're claiming that they're born that way' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now there are male nurses and female doctors. though for males it's harder though.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'societal pressures' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so where were those extra graduating females "forced" to take jobs, so that statistically they were paid less on average' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a bit of both, madcatz' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yes catz gender interests skew.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'If you are going the route of going to the doctors, then you need to tread carefully. The reason behind that issue is guys do not do regular checkups like most women do.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'because of society or because of nature, Kojiro?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'hell look at lang development and brain. clear gender diff' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because there are societal pressures doesn't mean those pressures have no reason to exist, nor does it make them wrong' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'are you saying that their math teacher is sexist and gives better grades to men on math? is that even possinle?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'they are both linked catz' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Children are pushed in different directions by established culture. Ideas about what it means to be a scientist or doctor or engineer have strong sex biases. Focusing on adults making adult decisions, ignoring the fact that how adults speak to children shapes their lives is stupid.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'possible*' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I'm saying that society is sexist and makes women less interested in doing well in math and science than men' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually I find the opposite to be true in schools, fiendish' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those "sexist" things you see originate from biological imperative' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's a rather large influence currently to push females into "sciency" roles' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i think some of both happens but women interests dont skew toward math and science' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'only because there's been a huge lack of doing it in the past, Abelinc.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'he argues the opposite kojiro.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'The same debate would be going on if Amazonian ruled.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Abelinc: you mean some people are finally recognizing a very real problem' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's meaningless, madcatz' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'male and female brains are different' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'just checking it isn't male against female on this channel, is it?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not a problem at all...' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is if you're madcatz, jopari :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thanks for clarifying.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'biology and society are linked. its not a hard concept' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'If someone's daughter said they wanted to be a nurse when they grew up, most parents would be happy with that. If someone's son said the same thing, many parents wouldn't be.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'male brain proceeses different. nale vody different. differwnt hobs. shocker.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I go out to dinner with a couple whose son is a nurse' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i would say that in my class, highest scoring in science and math is females, madcatz, many choose otherwise because they want to pursue other careers.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Point is that from a very young age, men and women are pushed towards different occupations' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I have two man students who are right now in the nursing program and members of HOSA.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'whether it's from the toys they're given, or the conversations about the future they have with parents' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the point is, that from a very young age equality is drummed into everyone with a hammer' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the other point is that your point is disagreed with' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'catz even tgough true its not determinative' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but is this male nurse gay or straight or unsure' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all we can do is offer the equality of opportunity' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not inequality to not be interested in something' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what women choose after that point is the business, societal pressure or not' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what he said.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'These interests are shaped by society, though' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'more women graduate from college bc they were pushed there from society' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't change society by dictat' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i don't argue that they aren't, but though they play a role, they are hardly the determining factors' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you change society by changing the way you act' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Turie, what do you teach at that school' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I'm applying for a job at an all-female school, btw :P Wonder how that's going to go.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Algebra II.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll go with you being arrested in 3 years time' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'fine, madcatz, your personality will shine through.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'high school level, or college level, or university level' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'an instance of countries trying to change society by dictate is China.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'university' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'all fenale university what a fuckibg joke ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'undergrad is all-female. graduate is coed' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they now want to institute a law to make children care for their parent's spiritual needs.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'officially, at least.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's one of those things where it really is reverse discrimination...chix0rz can force their way into male schools, but you're a perv to try the other way' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'madcatz, that seems problematic.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'thats disguating. like having an all white school miborities not allowed' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'There are all black colleges and universities.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just like you can have a magazine named "Black male" and it's empowering...but try a magazine named "White male" and you must be part of KKK' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a remnant of the old society.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I agree, Abe. You don't want to be the male teacher that points out that a girl is violating the dress code because her skirt is too short.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod turie: there shouldn't be' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rather, there should have been in the past, there shouldn't be today' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are no all-black colleges. They are traditionally black, but they accept the few whites that attend.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yhink hans is right' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'There are some of the traditional black colleges that are trying to get white, asian, and hispanic students into their colleges to mostly get the federal funding.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but somehow all male or fenale schools can exist. just pathetic' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'There can be if they're not federally funded. Don't know if any actually exist, though' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/03/11/list-of-womens-colleges' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I would not at all be surprised that the alumni and support community try to discourage non-whatevers from attending, though.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sexism or racism, stil discrimination, it would be best if all were welcome by meritocracy.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meritocracy is not allowed, it's not sufficiently progressive enough' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/tag/all-male-college/' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'lets start with a hundred pct estTe tax then' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'There are 4 all-male colleges still in the US.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Oh look, we agree on something, Tigernuts!' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '(yes, I know you were being sarcastic)' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'nobody wants a true meritocracy' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'those that do are minority.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'meritocracy would mean I'd actually have to work for a living' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly. T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'We cannot have that!' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'G'night.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Back when I was a substitute teacher, when they were going over the school rules and dress code and stuff, they actually told me that -- don't even bother saying something to a girl if they're showing too much skin, etc., the pushback you'll get won't be worth it' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I just get a female teacher or administrator to deal with that.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz nods. T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wonder if anyone can name all 15 factchecking sites in the US...?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's only 15?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in the US, there are another 44 scattered over the other 5 populated continents.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The Onion, Wikipedia, Urban Dictionary, ...' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://www.marketplace.org/topics/elections/list-fact-checking-websites' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd be curious to know what definition you're using' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a study from Duke U, led by Bill Adair (a founder of Politifact) identified them.' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Politifact" sounds almost too pretentious to be believed ' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you're looking for fact-checking sites found by bill adair, not fact-checking sites...there aren't 15 in the US and 44 on the other continents' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are hundreds of them in the US alone' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fact checking websites need to be taken with a pinch of salt' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but more information is usually better' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well yeah, since every single one of them has their own agenda' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'precisely, just like all the news has it's agenda' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't matter the source of the news, only that the bias is understood and information gleened' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'agreed' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why i find it funny people who drop onto here to complain about sources of stories when those same people won't believe anything unless it came out of Rachel Maddow's arse' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because MSNBC are clearly unbiased' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'like fox, fair and balanced' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the bbc, and rt' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Rachel Maddow female, if yes, is Rachel Maddow young and pretty, if yes, why is Tigernuts misogynistic' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone pointed out that RT was a Russian propaganda channel. Like really? I didn't know that. An english-speaking russian news channel. What are the odds?' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks Dagnir' T3/r7/2014-04-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, the IPCC is at it again, get ready with yawning and popcorn throwing' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'so quiet, did nobody feed the trolls today' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, IRS targets Ron Paul' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'The irony is the IRS targets itself!' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'needs to be disbanded, really' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'targetting Campaign for Liberty is clearly a politically motivated move' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's rather worrying that there is an absurdly high mortality rate of people in the liberty movements' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suicide rate for CIA whistleblowers seems to be nigh on 100%' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts: Do not blow the whistle on your CIA information.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is not a reliable source of confabulation' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but a reasonable source of sound ideology' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'True....Starling is more reliable.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because my sources are not analog' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Even Kojiro is more reliable.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade only accepts analog sources' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, MIchael C Ruppert is dead, suicide, Sources: HP, Heinz, Branston' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "nigh 100%" is the dubious confabulation' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"seems to be" does imply 'gives the appearance of"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly doesn't imply "is a incontrovertible fact"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that seems to be right' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless "nigh on 100%" means "nowhere near 100%"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts is the next Kojiro.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Are Turie and Zade married?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in which case Tigernuts is attempting deceit with deceptive bad english grammar' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whistleblowers' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't blame me for your terrible comprehension skills, Zade' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Zade: Blame Tigernuts lack of knowledge of the English language. It is his second language. We have to give him a break.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a tosser' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"nigh" (adverb): near, almost. (adjective): near, closely related. (preposition): near, close to. (archaic verb): to approach. Since "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", some may misconstrue :nigh" to mean "ni" or "not"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when did you stop being a communist, Zade?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"niggle" is to do with petty triffles, "niggard" is stingy, "nihil" is nada, "nil" is naught, so "nigh" may as be a disguised "almost near to naught"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'definitely a communist, or a fed, or both' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is a (liberal) warhawk against communism and corruption T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pull the other one' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obamah' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'the lizard people are in control, on record!! i have the documents..praise jesus' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ed Milliband does look like a lizard...' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade used to be a Republican warhawk, but then the vile corruption of Ronald Reagan happened T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'ST. Ronald! all hail' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look like a communist, smell like a communist, probably a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is a socialist against commumism T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is a socialist against communism T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so a communist who is too scared to admit he's a communist then' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: '1776 will come again!' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOU EVIL NEW WORLD ORDER' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'something something obama..something hilter..something something wake up sheeple..something something buy my water filter' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decent socialists are not communists' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when it comes to government, they're identical in all practical terms' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is a likely a closet communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well 1, we don't have closets, and 2. i'm not' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i've been on debate almost ten minutes and haven't plugged a product yet' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'well, this debate reminds me of Monty Pythons argument clinic' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'motley bunch tonight, elf' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Communists lie. Tigernuts lies. ergo, Tigernuts is likely a communist . (but more evidence is required to be definite) ' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'tigernuts isnt even american..aka communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a serf' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'All cats are animals, a dog is an animal. A dog is therefore likely a cat? Is that right Zade?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'most likely' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mackerals live in trees' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'flawless logic' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'pwn'd by the elf' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope, since there is definite evidence that dogs and cat are different' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but there is no evidence that Tigernuts is not a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's plenty' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts as a communist is likely lying about the "plenty"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my ideology and stances on issues are considerably proof that i am not a communist. the same can not be said for you' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who confessed already that you are a socialist, which is just a trendy way of saying you're a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts suggested methodologies of oppression that are very "communist"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decent socialists are not communists, and communists are not decent socialists.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'communists are perhaps despicable abominable vile corrupt socialists, but coomunists are not decent socialists ' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best place for socialists and communists is somewhere else' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dem overpriced linens' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i just bought some linens. shit's expensive' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'linens are pricey, beef is pricier' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dat 450 thread count egypt cotton' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'beef's not big here. we're more about pork' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir . o O ( thanks obama ) T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the corrupt Tigernuts logic is: "since some citizens are criminals, than all citizens are criminals" or "since some socialists (the corrupt socialists) are commusnists, then .. (blasphemy deleted)"' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thats sad, where is that at dangir' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'estonia' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying, zade, is that you were a communist and now you're a socialist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Estonia, Russian speedbump' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'zade was a communist and now he's a socialist. wake up, sheeple!' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no, Zade is saying that Tigernuts is a liar and is a likely a closet communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yup. and a really fucking good speedbump' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade was never a communist T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying zade is that you're a communist pretending to be a socialist because you don't want people knowing you're a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'this is how good of a speedbump we are - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tannenberg_Line' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Obama' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i was (more likely, originally) a Republican that evolved or changed into a (decent) socialist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying is that you once pretended to be a Republican to get acceptance, and now it's trendy to be a socialist you can lie less about your communist ideology?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nice try, obama' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts dislikes the monarchy, and communists dislike the monarchy, ergo: Tigernuts is likely a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go tell Ukraine to stfu and stop causing trouble, Dagnir' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts wants the government to pay for his medical condition -- that is obviously a desire for socialism, thus according to Tigernuts, Tigernuts the socialist is a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'both of you are fucking retarded. good night and thanks, obama' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the family background here: always against communism' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ was a socialist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ was not a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ is a socialist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ is not a communist' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'ohh no, now the fiary tales are in play' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'is santa a communist or socialist..he is the only one that gives out gifts, but he gives them to all' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus speaking to the good socialists (Matt 5:45) "That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust."' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, do you like to debate?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus is even superior to Santa (since Santa gives good gifts to the good, and (say) "lumps of coal" to the bad)' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade used to irc debate T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'dalnet ftw?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'undernet' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i was one of the only real teenagers on dalnet back in the day lol.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yeah but people who love Santa and not Jesus are considerably nicer people than people who love Jesus and not Santa' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'more were real back then, less bots' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'being nice doesnt pay the bills.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'but a lot of the other teenagersthere were really old italian men ' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'no' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i got some grammar advice and didnt have to send photos. ' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"being nasty" comes with a karmic price' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'yep, the fish smell' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'insufficient data to resolve the "fish" idiom' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, its a candidiasis thing.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are several types of christians: those that follow the decent teachings of Jesus, and those that follow the nasty teachings of the Christian churches' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade and dont forgot the ones that met jesus, like joseph smith' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'and joan of ark' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'VampireDude, not going there, that "fish smell" idiom is disgusting ' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, its the karmic price for being nasty tha you spoke of.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ never existed, so the others did not "meet" Jesus' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong, VampireDude' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, you said a minute ago he had teachings. top flip flopping. you off your meds?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'uuuhhh' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taveris: 'agree' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'there's plenty of evidence to suggest that jesus of nazareth was real' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'whether or not he was the son of god, feel free to be a nonbeliever, but the man was real' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'and scars has the scars to prove it.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Karma is able to be far more subtle and or devastating, etcetera' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, so youre saying karma is real, but jesus isnt?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lulz @ karma belief' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should we start a mantra and ask krsna to free us from our karma? rather than a mass to ask jesus to free us from our sins?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Scars, there is no actual credible evidence that Jesus existed as a man or a god, and there is plenty of (subtle) evidence that Jesus Christ is a fiction' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'no one is stopping you' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'a mass takes more than one person, just like a cult' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also note that: the nonexistence of Jesus Christ is separate to the existence of God' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taveris: 'i dont really believe jesus cause many unbelievable things happen and to much miracle' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'seperated by what?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'Was Jesus Caucasian or Middle Eastern?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'libyan and jewish why?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude peers intently at Purple HazeKnight. T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'no one is stopping you' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since Jesus was a fiction, Jesus was obviously white and heterosexual and holy and decent and good (since whitiness is next to godliness) "Praise Jesus!" (okay stop, enough praising)l' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'now youre just ranting.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'is canada dry ginger ale made in a socialist nation?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Christian and Judaic Bibles are color-coded: White (as snow) is good Black is dark and evil' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, answer me re. ginger ale' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'ok, guess ill just ignore you then since you seem to want to have a one sided spamfest rather than a debate.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade dislikes the (Sodium) Benzoate is those inferior Ginger Ales T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'VampireDude loses' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'looks like everybody's marking the occasion today. Boston Marathon's been evacuated.' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'convixted tsarnev yet?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Jokar is so last year, VD...' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'hans, i traded a batmobile the ther day' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did it have all four wheels?' T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'yep, it was the heroclix one' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haha, Ukraine sends it's troops to 'quell the terrorists' (citizens that don't subscribe the government installed by the coupe) - bunch of em get to the rebels and promptly change sides' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'armies are awesome' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'right. citizens' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, citizens. Thanks Obama' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're lucky and behave yourself Dagnir, USA and Russia can come and conspire to fuck up your country, too' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'we're american lapdogs just like you' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'better than being russian lapdogs' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir shrugs helplessly. T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFBOda6YJpI' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm nobody's lapdog' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a serf instead' T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'MIT is proposing we build Fukushimas 5-7 miles out to sea to avoid earthquakes and tsunamis. No mention of hurricanes, though.' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should i move to las vegas, henderson, santa fe, ananndale, moscow, or tampa?' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh or seattle near aurora ' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Moscow' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Moscow is the least communist/authoritarian of those options' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'never advise a westerner to relocate to Russia' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not? You should love it, having been a communist plant in the republican party, and now a communist plant in socialist circles' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, "comrade" Tigernuts speaks from experience. Tigernuts is currently also a "plant" as a Libertarian' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, a pot plant' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least i hold positions on things that are self-consistent' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some douchebag-in-a-suit didn't do some paperwork or phonecall 13 years ago and SWAT ends up kicking down this man's door for it. http://news.yahoo.com/armed-robber-never-told-report-prison-195146743.html' T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'this is not a new story' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strazor: 'What' wrong with Lua? Go.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strazor: 'What's*' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The code isn't pretty. At least not the code I have seen.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Looks like someone tried to combine visual basic with ruby ' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Both of which also are ugly, btw. Imo.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'slightly ambiguous peace deal agreed in Ukraine' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Socialist party in the UK hires Obama poll guru Axelrod' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't look like the 'rebels' in the east of Ukraine are buying it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'first hit!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Harry Reid is going around calling ranchers terrorists' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is odd for a guy who his abusing his position to put his own son in charge of a plot to sell of Nevada public land to Chinese solar power companies and put it beyond use for the people who actually own it (the Nevada public)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'good for him!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being involved in organised crime seems to part of the description for politicians' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, when you get caught, it used to be policy to at that point stop, be contrite, and shut up' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(not as Harry Reid is doing, trying to play the victim card)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'amazing! it's almost as if there's a word for someone who threatens the safety of civil certains carrying out ourt mandated orders! (it's not as though that someone has been using YOUR (public) land for his own profits for DECADES without paying his dues, and the courts have told him he needs to! Oh, wait, yes it is)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK they throw politicans in jail for fiddling $15,000 on their expenses, you guys seem to be OK over deals worth millions of dollars' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'certains = servants, lol.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need to do some fact checking, Sunsoar, a court has not ordered that, and a court did not order the feds to bring in snipers to beat people up, threaten them, and destroy property' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, a court found the BLM at fault previously, being complicit in land grab cases' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'seriously, you're too easy, troll elsewhere.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '1998: A federal judge issues a permanent injunction against Bundy, ordering him to remove his cattle from the federal lands. He lost an appeal to the San Francisco 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He represented himself.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'buh-bye.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.scribd.com/doc/144609491/United-States-v-Estate-of-Hage-No-2-07-cv-01154-RCJ-VCF-Findings-of-Fact-Conclusions-of-Law-and-Injunction-D-Nev-May-24-2013' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't understand why the feds are getting involved, they don't own the land' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'what does that one have to do with bundy/ and, yeah, it's PRECISELY that thwy own the land.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The feds are prevent by law from owning that land' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has everything to do with bundy, it's part of a program to push ranchers off the land that's been going on for years' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did the same thing in the UK with public commons decades ago' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, seriously, cite what law, IT'S FEDERAL LAND.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Feds are prevent by your constitution from owning that land' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'He's grazing his cattle on public land!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'WHAT?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your claiming the federal government can't own... federal... or ANY land?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not -any-' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'eminent domain, THEY CAN TAKE ANY LAND ANY TIme.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'they don't even need to here.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, in case you're not aware, all that happened was that the permit rules changed.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and bundy refused to pay the new fees.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's perfectly entitled not to pay the new fees' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though legally he shouldn't have paid any fees' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"The court ruled that the land on which Bundy was grazing his cattle was indeed owned by the federal government, that he had not been paying to use it as he should have been, that Bundy and his cattle were trespassing, and that the government had the right to enforce the injunctions against trespass. The court found that Bundy repeatedly violated the court orders and continued to have his cattle trespass"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the moment his family started paying fees he put himself in a legal grey area' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but, I've seen your throwing a bunch of troll bait out, have fun with that, I just knew the details of this one.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm glad you see an argument over land fees is justification for sending armed goons in to beat up women and children' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"Rangelands are distinguished from pasture lands because they grow primarily native vegetation, rather than plants established by humans. In 1848, the United States purchased a large expanse of land in the south-western region of the United States from Mexico, known as the Mexican Cession.[7][8] Nevada and the Bunkerville range are part of that land. Since then, the United States government has continuously owned the land in Nevada, which became a state in 1864.[7][8] Federal rangelands in Nevada are managed principally by either Bureau of Land Management or United States Forest Service. Ranchers may lease or get permits to use portions of this public rangeland and pay a fee based on the number and type of livestock and the period for which they are on the land"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"Grazing was never established as a legal right in the US,[11] and the Taylor Grazing Act authorized only the permitted use of lands designated as available for livestock grazing while specifying that grazing permits "convey no right, title, or interest" to such lands.[12]"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'right, citations please.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm confused, someone trespasses on state land and gets forced off it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you mean... have to retreat public servants carrying out lawful orders because a guy owing OVER A MILLION in fees decided to get armed people to harass them.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's the problem?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'right?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you suggesting that the public servants were not armed, that the ranchers were, and it was the ranchers that escalated it?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's selective rewriting of history, you realise' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'right?debate "After repeatedly charging and screaming at local law enforcement officers, Bundy's sister was taken to the ground by a law enforcement officer.[31]"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you mean that?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you know charging at cops?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'try it some time, see how it goes.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she was not, and there is video of it, again selective rewriting of history' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does that mean if a cop gets in your face, you can charge them from behind and taken them to the ground?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they decide to put your car tax up from $200 a year to $4000 a year, should everyone pay up, or should they protest?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'not all the federal personel (especially the ones doing the rounding) would armed, even then, that's their job, and they have a court order to do so, so threatening their lives if they do by calling for armed resistance...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'there's a word for that.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the bundy's didn't call for armed resistance' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor did they call for people to come armed' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's nothing like that jump, and he could have moved his catle off the land, insted he snubbed the law!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the feds could have put a lien on his property and taken the money from his estate when he died' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'basically it's some sort of anarchy' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where they're saying we're pissed off and unhappy about the law' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's the end of it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'legally speaking they have no right to the land' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they're also saying Harry Reid is a corrupt son of a bitch, and they're right' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'possible' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't know anything other than what i just read :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so US's rule of law is no better than china? :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like the coal industry, redryn, they deliberately used regulation to force people out of business' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'obviously, because the solution is to appease anyone who snubs their nose at federal court rulings.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea US's political system is screwed up' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sunsoar' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, that was sarcasm.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the issue is a bit different from that' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's a whole area of legal theory on this' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and a debate that's been going on for centuries about positivism vs natural law :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're going to shoot a rancher and destroy his property because of owed contested fees, yet you are happy to let bankers walk away with 100s of million of dollars in fraud?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suggests a smattering of hypocrisy to me' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, the issue is simple, and he's lost in every posible way, all of them a stretch because he, I assumes, like the government protecting the borders, but doesn't like paying for things.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and i suppose a moral question, of what a person should do if the law seems unjust' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'heh, fool, point me to where I agreed on anything re bankers? What a troll.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'are you saying one must always follow the law sunsoar? :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'seriously, you just strawmanned the fuck out of me, gtfo.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're putting it in context' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and then had the gall to call me a hypocrite for your strawman.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the French Revolution supplied a course of action -- Sunsoar's head 'd roll though' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the FEDS are the hypocrites, not you. jesus christ, not only highly strung but also can't read it seems' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'tigernuts, no, you just made assertions about my position re:banksters... and then insulted mefor them.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'pure, utter, troll.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've decided that anyone you disagree with is a troll, rigghhht' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'geez can't we go back to arguing about legal theory :(' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'don't use the royal you?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i have an exam on that next week' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'could use the revision!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'the wiki entry and the post page cover AL the ways he lost, and he tried every possible stretch.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but... conveiniently always stopped when he'd be the one to benefit most.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, the logical conclusion to most of his arguments... is indians own the land, not him.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better give it back to the indians, then' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I'd be good with that.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Irish Republican Army" - another alternative to the "law"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he's probably running the indian land argument because it's really difficult to try and claim a proprietary interest' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, IRA, thanks for that, AMerica' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's a last resort argument :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, he's not running the indian land argument.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he's running an argument that SHOULD lead to that.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but stops at him.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'charming chap.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'regardless' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's clear that there are a lot who support him who believe that the federal laws are unjust' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what should you do in such a situation?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you run your legal arguments but they all fail' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "law" is not "sacrosanct"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do you stfu and go away quietly, or do you escalate things?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with that, Redryn, I agree that the actions taken by the Federal Government are wholly inapproprite and over the top' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, incidentally, no, not all laws are moral or fair... but most people aren't rich and powerful enough to ignore them without consequence... and this one isn't particularly egregious. Other ranchers have paid and thrived fine, the fees aren't unfair.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'teh BLM are a bunch of crooks using trumped up environmental issues to try and justify their land 'grabs'' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it could have been handled much better from both sides' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'folk often obey the law out of convenience or laziness, but when the law is no longer convenient, some folk disregard the law' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'carrer criminals' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'assuming the law is right out bad (i don't know the details), ie expropriation' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you pay property taxes? Just stop, because you think they're unfair.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'career criminals' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'go on.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what should you do?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'see how it goes.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'property taxes are fundamentally unfair' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't necessarily not pay them' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'this isn't some human injustice, this is a rich guy wanting a free ride.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's not even his land, the government wantd to change what they charge for him to use their land.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find he's not rich, you'll probably find the fees will bankrupt him' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's old and probably believes he has nothing to lose' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he can find (FREE MARKET!) someone else to provide him land for less.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'this has gone on 20 years.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he wasn't that old when he first started violating the law.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'how come he has so many supporters if he's just out for a free ride' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'libertarians, succesionists, why are there crazy people?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they hate the crazy fascist scumbags that rip everyone off?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'so a bunch of crazy armed supported who threaten officials operating in legal capcity... makes you, right?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'life isn't black and white, and morality differs at an individual level' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i wouldn't say they are wrong, nor would i say they are right' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "government" wanted to change the fees, or perhaps some "corrupt rich crooks" bribing and influencing the government wanted to change the fees ' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where would you draw the line of what's right and wrong?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yeah! rip everyone off! Border defense, Wildfire management, power, utilities, police and courts for rustlers! THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOTHING FOR HIM. Oh, wait.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'Also, not his land.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decisions by the "government" are by individuals, and those individuals may or may not be "crooked"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, because governments never do anything wrong, they always make the right decisions, they ALWAYS have your best interests at heart' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as long as EVERYONE is getting screwed over, it's ok, right?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so a valid debate is: where the fee changes justified bu genuine economics or a dirty-underhanded trick by "crooked carpetbaggers" seeking to steal by manipulating (bribable) individuals within the government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, they're not faultless, I mean, thoe WMD's, they will find them any day now, for example... but that's why 3 branches... and if your response to that not working out for you is armed opposition, rather than protest and enacting change at the legislative level? You might be the one in the wrong.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that argument makes any different to SUnsoar, Zade, he believes that if the feds tell you to stick your head in a blender you should do so' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't -have- 3 brnaches' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'protest and enacting change at the legislative level?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'ocupy didn't like th wall street stuff... want to tell me how tht would have gone down if they'd gone into the bank with guns?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'in US?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'hahaha' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so a valid debate is: were the fee-changes justified by genuine economics, or were the fee-changes a dirty-underhanded trick by "crooked carpetbaggers" seeking to steal by manipulating (bribable) individuals within the government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that might work if US was a democracy' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democracy is overrated, redryn' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you're hving a different argument, and applying your position to almost any fcet of life would end... poorly... for you, why is Bundy special?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'check out http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/04/16/The-US-is-not-a-democracy-but-an-oligarchy-study-concludes/2761397680051/' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'are you living a fantasy through him now?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'admittedly this whole thing is an artifact of the way that small part of the USA still exists' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"democracy" is not a magic "trump" card' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm just interested here in the legal debate' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't really care about who bundy is' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were always going to end up having conflicts between those who want to claim land for faux-environmental (see corporate) reasons and those who have/are using it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Ed and Peg Bundy turned into ranchers' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happens if they decide they want to extend rural land off bounds to people for the sake of the planet and shove property taxes way up' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'have you guys seen the ted talk that the conversation efforts are all terribly misguided?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'zones that are marked for conservation and protected from grazers all turn into deserts' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i normally treat TED talks with the same kind of arms-length treatment as you would religious speeches' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn shrugs helplessly. T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it seems to have some proof via studies' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Redryn, they recently 'flooded' several thousand acres of prime agricultural land near me to provide wildlife habitat, saying bollocks to the fact that we don't have sufficient food for our population and have to fly stuff in at great cost to the environment' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the argument they make is that by not allowing animals through the areas, plants overgrow, and this allows moss to grow in certain seasons, which kills the soils and subsequently kills the plants' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'raising property taxes is how the rich steal land from the poor that resided on that land for generations' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'happened in Mexico' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'happened in the USA' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they used different regulatory instruments in the UK to dispossess smallholders, but it still happened' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I'm sure they have a control area, or scientific studies, and aren't jut engaging in wild speculation. But what gets me is... you're assuming crooked where dumb will do. faux corportist takeover (damn those solar companies trying to make money while providing a service better for hte planet!)... WHAT? So, we pretend there's this turtle that needs saving, right?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'then we charge fees for the use of the area to fund that...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but what we're really doing is stealing the land for corporation use.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'wait...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's the governments land to begin with.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the people's land' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'we could just lease it to the corps!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"We the people"... ring any bells?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'to form a more perfect union?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you think that ment they were going to have great sex?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no it meant they were forming a government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'entrusted with many aspects of the people.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'like the land.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and now overstepping it's powers on nearly every front' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we the people ... establish this constitution? :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'what... to own and manage the land of the country? who do YOU think should?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'sarcasm is a bad technique - there is no sarcasm in a viscious debate - whatever you say shall be used as evidence against you youy put your foot in your mouth attempting sarcasm, you are discredited' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did the people of nevada get a say whether their public land got sold off to China?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'was it state land?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'wait can states even own land? or just manage it?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do the people of Nevada whose land is to be sold off to this Chinese solar farm get a sovereign wealth fund set up, being paid into by this company for the benefit of those people whose land is now off limits?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's not fucking sold to china you moron.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'leased, to a chinese company, at best.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'this is new, china is buying US land? :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and the poeople of Nevada get what every citizen does, all the functions of government.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and US is selling land to them? i'd be amazed' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, it's just his cognitivie dissonance not allowing reality into hwo he sees the situation.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because if it was all hum drum... he couldn't live out his fantasy through bundy.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you do realise if the land belonged to China they could build a militar base there and US couldn't do shit about it right? :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'plenty of land in plenty of states is leased to foreign corporations.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'other than declare war' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'makes money for stuff, yay!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'chinese solar panels on USa land - that does no seem environmentally friendly to the land if the land goes to rot' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'none of those other staes gets specific earmarked funds from those leases.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/News/Pages/CommissionersCleartheWayforNewJobs,SolarProject.aspx' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was sold, not leased' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'to a corporation. not a government, the u.s. government can eminent domain it back any time, and they'll pay both rates and taxes on it, all ammounts to a leasing. The people haven't lost the land.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which politicians sold the USa land to the chinese for a pittance' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty twisted way to look at it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"It's ok, we can always steal it back later"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the argument is that it was significantly undervalued' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe that's what the indians believed when whiteman bought land for $24 in baubles' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's a big difference between selling land to a corporate entity vs selling land to a country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'just be mindful of what that means :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless the chinese company is owned by members of the government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'doesn't matter' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'state owned is state owned' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'like i said' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if the land belonged to the people's republic of china' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they could build a military base there' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'unless your issue is wit hteh ideology of the owners... which it didn't appear to be when saying "sold off to China", Redryn is right, and basically what I aid before.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'think "lease hong kong" as to another government.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and US couldn't say anything about it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'also they would have to put in immigration controls at the border' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'COMPLETELY different to selling it to a sovereign nation' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and utterly undermines the concerns and hysteria which follow form them that you have.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to some extent it depends on the tax arrangements. In the UK we have big issues with government giving contracts to foreign companies who then proceed to pay no tax' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems as though the government is corrupt' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you know that domestic companies do that too, right? Like double dutch with a side of Irish?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what you're complaining about is investment agreements' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that it's a chinese company makes no difference there.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'china corporation agrees to build x stuff in your country and you give them y concessions' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's nothing neww' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're right, Sunsoar, the fact that it's a company is the issue.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'have you not seen US companies build stuff in other countries?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's done all over the world' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'especially by oil companies' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure, and they screw people over all the time - doesn't make it right' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at what BP did to Alaska ref. Exxon Valdiz' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a company, foreign or domestic, wants to start up here, buys land commerically, operates under the law and pays taxes, all fine' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea, so the problem there is a country selling drilling rights to a company which wrecks havoc on their environment' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you think the chinese company isn't incorporated in US?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'd be surprised' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the bundy case it was not land bought commerically and there were dirty political handprints all over it. Much like the chinese nuke reactor going up in the UK which UK PLC has agreed stupidly high subsidies for' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i suspect you have no clue at all about investment law' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not talking about where things are incorporated' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because governments are bad, and foreign corporations are bad... and banks are bad... I'm guessing tigernuts only loves U.S corporations? If that is the case, I wonder what he thinks about the U.S. Banana companies actions in central america...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it goes, i'm suspicious of all corporations' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so you're complaining the government is full of shitty negotiators? :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i wouldn't be surprised' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm complaining that the government is full of shit. Trim off the "ty negotiatiors"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'solar panels built on ranching and farming lands seems like an act of destruction -- build the solar panels in the cities ans suburbs om the rooftops ' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'do U.S. Banana companies sell bananas?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so what do you think the solution is?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Strr, bananas are a sacred animal' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get a grip on government and shrink it's size, redryn. Vastly simplify tax law' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'build th solar panels in the desserts and the dustbowls and on arid land' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move power for internal affairs down to state (country for UK) level, leave country level government for dealing with defence and intercountry trade' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the chinese covert those solar panel lands into dustbowls, perhaps that is an act of war' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there is a problem with breaking down the country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's the loss of power' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course there is problems breaking down the country, there are also benefits' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's even more staggeringly inefficient than he believes government is now.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'people got together to form large countries with big governments because larger groups are more powerful' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'also, guessing republican... all those red states getting more in federal $ than they pay... will hurt, a lot.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you argue that smaller states will be more efficient' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i suspect they will be crushed by corporations' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not more efficient, more representative of the people in them' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'possible' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'cant represent when you haven o power.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but how would they handle a situation here' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the threshold of effort needed to resolve corruption is also lower' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'say a bigass corporation comes in' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and says hey wanna let us build here? we want x taxes and we'll create y jobs' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'your people kick up a big fuss and say no u!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the corporation says ok, let me go next door' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'aI'm going to jump ahead, and say this is in a state whose river goes into another states... provides all their water.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you then wave and let them go' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'GL downstream!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some state is eventually going to do the game theory way and say hey we'll take you' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'downstream state can't do shit.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some state is going to have lower taxes on corporations' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and you know what happens?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the states that don't are going to have no revenue' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no one will want to work there and all the people will leave to where there are jobs' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and boom, your small state dies.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'people flock to a select few states' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and very soon the cycle repeats' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where you have one huge oversized state' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's no simple solution to this.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was about to say that's an oversimplification' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it is' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'lots more things can happen' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but historically that's what import controls are for' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'globalization has killed that' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the world has changed' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalisation has killed pretty much everything' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you don't take months to travel by ship between countries' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all we got in return is fucking facebook' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and poverty' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'a huge income disparity :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some people are having a really good life!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, those ripoff merchants mentioned some time ago' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but regardless' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm just saying your small state idea doesn't sound very feasible' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no bargaining power' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you're phrasing it in terms of trade when one of the purposes of your federal government was to govern trade between states and between the US and foreign countries' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts likes the anarchies incompetencies and whimsies of municipal governments -- (or maybe a group of Tigernuts is waiting to hive in a secluded municipality)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you're saying let states manage their own taxes no?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'let states manage their own affairs' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as pragmatically possible, yes' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's where the bargaining comes in' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'whatever power is given to states' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is what they will use to court economic investment' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'be it tax laws, land prices, whatever' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'at the end the states will compete against each other' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do now' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such competition will ultimately end in some form of status quo' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'isn't that part of the problem?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rate bargaining is part of the problem, you shouldn' tbe able to bargain lower rates just because you're a big corporation' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'why do the governments agree then/' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't go to my council and say "i'll pay you only 20% of the current property tax rate or i'll go move away"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you can't do it cos you're a nobody :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and they don't care if you're there' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ask your federal government, they shouldn't allow states to give special treatment' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they want these corporations to come in' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to give corporation A preferential rates, you should give smalltown shop B the same rate' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it doesn't matter if it was the federal government or the small state deciding the rates' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'except the state doesn't care if smalltown shop B moves away, because it doesn't 'create enough jobs'' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'both will give preferential rates' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but the large corporations are the drivers of our economy, they are the wealth creators, we are really lucky to have them at all. I think that they should be able to do anything that they want' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's just the point, Majic, it shouldn't matter - if states weren't permitted to do this, then you wouldn't get corporations shopping around playing states off against each other' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the corporations will just play nations off each other' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that was either brilliant satire, or terribly depressing.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's how the world works' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they would have to make their decision based on the facts on the ground' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'look up investment agreements' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there are tons of them in every country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's dinner time. put a stop to it!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'as redryn said, they'd play the smaller nations off each other instead' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, what we should really do is abolish tax, and then the nation state, and we'd live in a perfect free market' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's when you get your trade controls out' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'check out bilateral investment treaties' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'good chance you can't' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's basically all about governments agreeing hey, if my corporations can get cool rates in your country i'll let yours get good ones in mine' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's no coincidence that they investment treaties are written by corporations, much like the transatlantic one being written that will allow corporations to bypass national law' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so nothing you have proposed will change this :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you got rid of the investment treaties it would' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you got rid of investment treaties your country will be irrelevant' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrelevent or bankrupt are your two choices then' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you can be north korea i guess' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they don't have many investment treaties!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'close off your country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'stop the trade!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'china did that for a long time, see what happened to them' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying then, just to make this absolutely clear is "it's the way it is, nothing can change, you just have to accept that corporations will take over the world and you will just be a resource to them"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm saying your suggestions are not a solution :p' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then what is?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but if you have better ones i'd be interested to hear!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't know' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'pts' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'oops' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's a problem faced by governments too' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would solve some of the democratic deficit we currently have, even if it doesn't solve global trade' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would solve some of the issues we have with regards to creeping police state' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's always easier to criticise than to come up with solutions' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as you're finding out, no doubt :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were up to me, here in the UK, i'd start by reforming personal taxation and law, tackle the corporate side later' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so many issues are deeply political' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what would you do about taxation?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'raise them?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scrap council tax and national insurance, scrap the tax-free allowance, in fact, scrap pretty much all personal taxation other than a simple income tax, a sales tax, and duty on certain things for ring-fenced purposes' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'investment treaties are "protectionist" and even indirectly anti-free-trade (even though some trade is subsidised, those without those treates are disadvantaged, hence anti-free-trade)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while i like the idea of a flat tax rate, it's not pragmatic in a country with >100% GDP to debt ratio, huge deficit, and large trade deficit' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'scrapping taxes means raising others' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm not familiar with uk taxes so i guess i can't comment though' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the first $15k here is tax free, i'd end that - it'd make up most of the other changes' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'not really' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it would' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the income tax on the poor generate pretty negligible amounts' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't targetting the poor' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i've seen the numbers locally, it just doesn't matter' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the idea would be that it'd be roughly tax neutral, anyway' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but, screw them anyway, right' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I am not convinced Redryn -- income tax on the poor contributes most of the tax, cause the richer you are the less you pay' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts 'd tax crumbs from a starving family' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the richer pay the most tax generally' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i assume uk has some progressive tax system' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'poor pay a lot to state.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: '15k 0%, next 10k 5% etc' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it just moves from a situation where you're taxed regardless toa system that is based on your ability to pay' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some of our taxes are progress, some not' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic boggles at Tigernuts. T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich extorted most of their money' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our property tax is fixed' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'this 15k is income tax no?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our sales tax is flat but doesn't apply to everything' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'rich have a lot more tax loopholes available' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'current rates are 0% 0-10k, 20% 10k-45k, 40% 45k-150k 45% 150k+' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so which taxes are you proposing to raise?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is also a tax on employment, 9% paid by the employee, about the same or something paid by the employer' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scrap the 0%' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so instead of 0% 0-10k have it 5% or something?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20%' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'pretty damn harsh on someone who makes 20k' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'lol' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that will never work' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'this one is simple, and you're nowhere near as clever as you think. Just design a tax system. That's all you have to do.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise that the property tax is paid regardless of your income' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, wait, forgot one bit.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you'r not born, and don't know how your life will play out.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'design one now.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you pass that law, and your party will never be elected ever again' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'oh, and the next party will repeal that law' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'immediately' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'hint: it isn't this libertarin fantasy you're spouting.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because people are pretty dumb, redryn' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i guarantee it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems clueless as to effective government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'too bad we're not in a utopia of super enlightened people i guess' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but your proposal would obviously never work' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obviously?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'see above' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you will be kicked out of office and your changes repealed' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's your tax bill, Redryn for 2014: 2000 in property tax, 6000 in income tax - total: 8000' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yeah, obviously, it would drive those in the lower-income brackets who already own no property to pay taxes on into an even more crushing poverty, unless you are planning on raising benefits for those of low income to compensate, which somehow i doubt' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's your tax bill, REdryn for 2015: Property tax: 0, income tax: 8000 - total: 8000' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is higher?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if that's the tax bill i'm getting, then your country is now running a huge deficit' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because in essence you scrapped taxes without fully replacing them' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'except the income tax would be higher because you're not getting the deduction on the first 15k -- you'd pay 20% of that, which is 3000' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'oh noes majic' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'don't make him tweak his magic numbers' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not magic numbers, they're illustrative' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he'll now tell you your property tax was 3000' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'doesn't mean anything, if you own 0 property all you will see is your income tax going up AND your benefits being cut' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you homeless, majic?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I do like how most conservative/libertarian tax systems... apart from assuming the U.S. is currently sitting on the side of the laffer curve where lowering taxes is tbe best way to generate revenue... would be soul crushing to those already the weakest... do they imagine they're that close to the top that they'll be fine?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do you pay property tax on rented property?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you pay property tax here regardless of whether you rent' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nope, I live in an apartment that I rent' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you'd pay property tax here' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'do you pay property tax on council flats?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you live in a property, you pay property tax' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, then, I do agree that that's stupid, but I don't think that taxing under 15k is the answer.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do companies pay property tax?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's kinda the point, it's not based on your income or your ability to pay. It does scale by the value of the property a little, but everyone pays' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's like... let's lower taxes on the rich, and pay for that by increasing them on the poor!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a different version, redryn, but yes' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if i own a factory am i paying property tax on that land?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said, Sunsoar, it's tax neutral' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok so now you're scrapping that property tax?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a different tax and i said i'd consider personal and corporate taxation differently' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok so say i'm a rich guy' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and i own 5 houses' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but in answer to your question, probably not' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i stop paying tax on them?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are they sitting empty?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sure, my holiday home' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then yes, you do' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'cool, and now i just pay 3k income tax more?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'totally support it yo' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'pass that tax bill to the poor' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're getting a substantial tax cut, they'd vote for it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look up "Poll tax riots"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'well i'd agree with removing any flat taxes' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'as you describe it property taxes sound like a flat tax' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'more or less' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Redryn. T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fixed tax, not flat rate' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'only the poor who own property would be... oh, wait...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flat tax and flat rate are easily confusable' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was already mentioned that you pay the fixed property tax here regardless of whether you're an owner or renter, sunsoar' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyhew, dinnertime' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and how does this aply to the U.S then, or are you talking one world tax rate?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he's from the UK' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he's just talking about his own country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I just got a hole in my new NFC cash card -- good idea or bad, discuss.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'cut -- cut a hole' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what an NFC cash card is' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'NFC = Near field communication. It's a debit card that you can just tap on debit machines to process payments.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: '...*beep*' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '*ping*' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, cut a hole in it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'burn it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a form of rfid...whether or not the hole changes anything would depend on where the hole is compared to the electronics' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'ever had a card peel?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you're concerned about information leakage, better to encase it in a shielding technology' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'yes cards can peel' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'and underneath the top layers... you see the actual chip where the information is actually stored' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'iirc' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just destroy it and use cash' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'screw cash, I get bonuses from the cards...they can track me all they want as long as I get extra free stuff :P' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more shit for your free shit collection, eh?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spend enough and they'll give you some WORTHLESS shit!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not worthless shit...they give me cash or credit for the places I spend already' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no free lunch' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless they're giving you one as a perk :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so they say...but there IS free lunch FOR ME' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a rule of thumb, here at least, such 'rewards' cards are a con. They at best partially-reward people for their laziness. As a rule of thumb you can save money by shopping elsewhere, without the points' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not talking about a store's shopper program, I'm talking about paying with my credit card at the same store I'd be paying cash to' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, they have those here too, typically much higher rates' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so for spending the same $50 in gas that I'd have to spend anyway, I can have to walk into the gas station to pay and be out exactly $50, or I can never go more than 2 feet from the car, not have to wait in a line, and get a $5 refund...extrapolate that to my monthly expenses and it's a significant amount, for no cost other than someone knowing that I spend $xxx/month on gas' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't pay interest. at all.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all of my utilities/etc are paid using the credit cards, and all of the credit cards are paid in full each month' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i've always though credit cards are just to encourage consumers to buy and spend more. like discounts.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the schlubs who don't pay in full every month are paying for my free lunch...and I'm perfectly fine with that :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the main card doing that here are american express, they have a much smaller spread of shops that accept them because the shop has to pay much higher fees to process them' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some banks offer similar through special accounts that you have to pay a certain amount into each month, or have a monthly fee' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I have a spread of visa, mc, amex and disc...all of which have either cash back or points' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll stick to the simple option :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I find it simpler to not have to keep tapping Mac to have cash on me for everything, and be able to get through lines quicker or avoid them altogether' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'mac?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"tap mac" is a term for hitting up an ATM' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't ever have problems with lines' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: ''tap mac', wow... what country is that' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'before everything was as well-networked as it is today, MAC was the biggest ATM network (in the US at least)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there was PLUS, MAC, STAR, etc which all had logos on your bank cards' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cash is still the best way to pay for labour :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tap%20mac' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to be confused with tapping sack' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a reasonable question to ask: Would it be more effective for 'protecting the environment' to base import duties on the 'dirtiness' of the country of origin than to arbitrarily impoverish and/or restrict the freedoms of the poor in your own country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, hard to load a question more than that :P' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'load that sucker up!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reasoning is this. If you're a small European country, it doesn't matter how much you 'clean up' your country if China, India, and the US are happily ruining the planet. So why not penalise them rather than your own people?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'because you can't really be self-sufficient, and trying to penalize them by not importing quite probably hurts your people more than it helps them in the short-to-moderate-term' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reasoning is that by making imports from china more expensive, you make it more attractive to import from other countries' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it does hurt your own people to an extent, but then so does other action attributed to climate change' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it hurts your own people without a benefit...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not fair - if a small percentage of imported goods switch to coming from a country (possibly even home grown) with a cleaner record, then you have had a net positive impact' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or, if these items are more expensive and people simply don't buy them, then you have also had a net positive impact' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the only impact you have is that your people are paying more for everything than the rest of the world' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people not being able to afford buying things isn't a net positive impact' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is exactly what they did with the 'fuel duty escalator' here, and with the switch to 'green' electric' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'talk about a spin doctor' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'why don't countries do that then?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of the corporate investment agreements Redryn was talking about earlier, Bob' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments want a cleaner planet, provided it's the little people that suffer to make it so' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'the purpose of those is that they're not particularly fungible purchases... so making the green option competitive, even if it costs more all around, leads directly to green.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not competitive, nor can it ever be' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'china isn't going to change their ways becuse a small country sets their tarrifs higher.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'now, if a bunch of big ones did that... but that's not going to happen, becaise it would apply to them too.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typically you would look to get a group of countries doing the same thing' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'are you seriously telling me solar, or other green energy can NEVER be competitive? Go look up the price today for 1Mw from solar, as compared 1980. I'll wait.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, and I'm guessing you don't know how heavily oil is subsidized.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are not the solution, sunsoar, sun doesn't shine 24/7, wind doesn't blow' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'batteries don't exist.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh god damn you're daft.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK invested billions in extremely expensive offshore wind, it has to be backed up by gas' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and batteries are so incredibly environmentally friendly, and efficient' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course being a physicist you know this' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd also know that most hybrids don't even break even in their lifetime in terms of emissions saving because of the battery manufacturing process' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'better than the alternative. And not in the air.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, not better than the alternative, not even remotely true' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'geothermal, hydroelectric. THOSE are useful renewable resources' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kobus: 'well fracking and offshore drilling have been working out really well, just have to poison the entire ecosystem to get them :(' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't support either, kobus' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'citation please. Because compared to fracking, I'll take a little ground polution... to ground air and water.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how does hydroelectric and geothermal pollute ground air and water?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I mean solar/wind + batteries.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that problem is solved.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's solar/wind + batteries, it's solar/wind + gas' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'don't pretend like it's not.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'NO! that's "not enough capicity no matter what"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because not enough investment!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go look up the process for extracting and refining lithium' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'not "because can't figure out how to supply at night"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'solar and wind both have their place, but they're not the answer' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're both useful in decentralising energy production which is also extremely important' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'they're the furthest along, and don't require natural features.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'they're the furthest along, and don't require natural features.debate GLHF for countries without large river systems or volcanic activity in your version!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are far better off having production close to where it's needed as transporting electricity is inefficient' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but... that's the point right, kill them as good being the enemy of the perfect... and, gas wins.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gas is already winning because some fuckwit didn't build any new power production here in the last 30 years' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i live on a dirty great big island, there's vast scope for tidal and hydroelectric and they won't go near it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'well, maybe if Ray-gun had embraced solar insted of ripping the panels off the roof...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'the world might have followed the lead.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise he's been dead a long time and out of power longer...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you realise you just bitched about something over the last 30 years.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, because the whole 30 year period is relevent, not something that happened before that' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'raygun was in office 30 year ago you utter troll.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, are you saying that reagan has been preventing US development of solar power for the last 30 years?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you just being deliberately stupid?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you just said "something before that" and, I said he set back its deployment, yes! and increased oils hold, double whammy!' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because in the UK successive governments OVER the last 30 years have not built new capacity' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I even suggested his example might have been followed elsewhere.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were british, you'd be one of those people that blames Margaret Thatcher for everything' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'name one good thing? for raygun, either. Fiscal conservatives, screw the poor, both blew up deficits, retarded the development of alternate energies, demonized minorities.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yeah, both pretty shite.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wasn't around in the USA during Reagan's time. I do recall one very good sound bite often attributed to him, which was The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, it does appear your presidents have been mostly god-awful since Eisenhower' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'utter phoey. Or, let me rephrase to any American patriot. Imagine a founding father is saying that, and still say you'd be upset.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could imagine a founding father saying that' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were all about the need to keep government under a firm leash, what makes you think the two are inconsistent?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I also assume, immediately, that anyone who touts that is a whit middleclass chickenhawk who lets poorer families sons fight wars.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, you know, national defense "helps"... so did ending slavery, I do like the fire department.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, you managed to be racist and classist all in one sentence' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'London, 1666... didn't, so much, when it was private.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so now Reagan is to blame for the Great Fire of London?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no you moron. Pure free market idealogues who can't dmit government has any purpose.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you'd been paying attention, you'll have seen people talking about the role of government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and have not read more than one sentence of Smith.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yo're the one who just dropped th ridiculous canard of government being here to help being bad.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'also, screw my keyboard atm. Cleaning time.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think you'll find he was referring to the government for the most part being the least best placed to solve most problems' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a sentiment i agree with, however i also think government is best when it is localised' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'except... you'll find your "for the most part" to actually be stggeringly off the mark should you be able to pierce the veil of your cognitive dissonance.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'like, fire departments.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so centralised government is best placed to fight fires?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'in fact ANY utility where adding competing versions is stupid on its face (want 50 water mains running under each street? one for each company?)' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yep.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's best placed to furnish districts with departments and ensure htey are coordinated and have a nationally recognised level of training.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well if i walk to my fire department i'll find it is a local fire department provided by the local council. the central government has nothing to do with it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'want to bet? their engine has to meet national codes.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and I bet you anything they received federal funding.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's considerably different to have a single national fire fighter team' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with branches' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'or the training was federally funded or subsidzed.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'or the training was federally funded or subsidzed.debate ultimtely not possible without a centrlied government though.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your poduck local fire branch would be utterly ineffective against a large fire.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'ALL of them would be.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'see, 1666.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's also a big difference between the central government saying "here's the code of practice and training. go set up a fire service" and central government parachuting it in and micromanaging it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'micromanagement by central authority is the reason why our schools are plummeting down the international rankings, and why our health service is on the verge of utter collapse' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that's not the argument, because my version of a fire department (one that works) isn't possible without it being under the auspices of a federal government. Yours... is irrelevent, because it doesn't work.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a role for government in all these things. micromanaging isn't it' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our fire service works just fine, thankyou' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think you'll find he was referring to the government for the most part being the least best placed to solve most problems'"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you've picked 1' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'if by solve you mean "the existing of the federal government being hte only thing that allowed the effective solution".' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure what that meant, but ok' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'national defense, police, pollution standards.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'water provision.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local governance is best suited to dealing with utilities' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'minority rights.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't an issue in a civilised country' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'rail and highway' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rail is irrelevent on an island, highways are best split between local and central' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'for FUCK sake, you realise, in America, a gay lover can be kicked out of the hospital room of their partner if the family doesn't approve? Yeah, it hasn't got their yet, but federal is the one way it will.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and you can also have your kid kicked out of school for pointing his finger and saying "Bang"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but wouldn't it be fun if the guage were different? 50 DIFFERENT gauges?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, I really don't think the citizens of Arizona want water supply to hve no federal rules.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'California will OWN them.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a civilised country you'd have freedom of speech, too, but we can't have everything now, can we/' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"How do you tell a Communist? Well, its someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? Its someone who understands Marx and Lenin."' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, funnily enough... all your responses are "local government"... so, you're ok with "I'm from the (local) government and I'm here to help"?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends what you're there to help with' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your canards are... as wanting as they are stale.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more important, MOST importantly, did i -ask- for help?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you added no room for gradation in your initial assertion on governments usefulness.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can blame Reagan for that one, it was his quote' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'maybe that's the problem with tired generalities that people think are clever.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you only repeated with approval.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'can't see my prolem there at all.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'judgemental as well as rude' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, know, what you're doing to facts, logic, and what your positions would mean for society are a rudeness that I could not come close to matching. Sorry if I reflect it a little bit in my digust.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '.*disgust' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and no. Ok, that one wasn't kb, it was >4am, so, out.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think you understand why my positions are, you just making some rather crude assumptions then throwing insults from your rather smelly ivory tower' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps i would like government to help, but not to dictate, does that help any?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'perhaps it doesn't dictate very nearly as much as you imagine, and where it does, it's for reasons you haven't comprehended... and your solutions to this mistaken problem would be terrible and or tragic... does that help?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'look up a series"how regulation came to be" on dailykos.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'talks about regulations that right wing people denounce the government for... that came about because of things like the triangle shirtwaist fire, or the radium girls.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and you' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and you'll be happy the government is there to help.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ahh, the old standy of the unions' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what was necessary 100 years ago must be good today' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's odd, because i am mostly against corruption, overtaxation, indentured servitude and the takeover of everything by corportations, which the governemnt is actively promoting, not helping' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because there's not rampant examples of it lately that haven't been addressed yet, and because we don't actually have proof that if protections are weakened, backslide WILL happen.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but because i'm against government spying on everyone, cops beating homeless people to death, and taxes screwing the poor but missing the rich, YOU think I want people eating radium and getting rid of fire departments' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a weird state of affairs' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your tax solution would help, and would only hurt the poor, at least in the U.S. And in hte U.K. those rich enough to get their money without it being income would be the best off, so screw the middle class not poor.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/17/1187836/-How-regulation-came-to-be-The-Truman-Highway-Safety-Conferences' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'read the entire series, and tell me government can't be here to help.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, yes, much of it applies today. it would just be different chemicals. or different shoddy construction.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not one person has said anything near what you're staunchly defending, so it'd help if you'd be less ignorant in your assessment...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yes, he did.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he quoted Reagan approvingly regarding all government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that includes the idealogy behind that quote, or it would have no meaning.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he quoted reagan.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yes, he did.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he didn't quote reagan approvingly regarding all government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, just for shits and giggles then?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's a rather large difference between the two statements' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nothing for shits and giggles, you'd just have to have greater than a 3rd grade education to understand' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"Tigernuts: 'i wasn't around in the USA during Reagan's time. I do recall one very good sound bite often attributed to him, which was The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."'"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, he recalls a good sound byte.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"one very good soundbite", about a philosophy on the value of government.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'take it as a sound byte' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'so, it's a good soundbite' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it was, and it is' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and that soundbite expressed the position I'm attacking.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that particular sound byte just has nothing whatsoever to do with what you're claiming' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'so, he expressed and approved of the position I'm attacking.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it has EVERYTHING to do with what I'm claiming.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it doesn't' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'ok, you just keep repeting that to yourself like you're not looking like an idiot.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not once (within or outside that soundbyte) has there been anything even remotely claiming that "nothing by the government can ever be of help"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, one of us is looking like an idiot...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'Oh, give me another interpretation of what Reagan meant.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, if "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" being scary DOESN'T mean there's no way government could help...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he meant that there are some [many] government initiatives which were intended to help, and which have ended up being less than helpful to the intended recipients of said help' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is extremely different than "the government never helps"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'quite frankly, it could also make one nervous because one doesn't know whether it will help or not' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'welfare coming over "to help" and taking your kids away instead...not so much helping...scary thing' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'citation for that interpretation.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it has happened, it does happen, it will happen, that government's help can be a not-good thing...it also has hapepned, does happen, and will happen that government is positioned to help quite well' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at you in agreement. T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're pretending that anyone here is claiming that the latter part never exists' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that's just utter horseshit' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, I'm requesting citation for the assertion that Reagan included that nuance.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'to state that it's categorically bad or categorically good is a false dichotomy' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you need to look up what a soundbyte is...reagan made a joke...it wasn't exactly reagan's position or policy, else he wouldn't have run for president' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'reagan wasn't stupid enough to think that he needed to cover every contingent interpretation of his joke...I guess he just didn't give idiots enough credit' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, so, you can just say widely sweeping shit, with no nuance, that doesn't tck with reality... and then people quoting you get to pretend you had nuance, because the words on their own paint an ugly picture.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there was no nuance, because it was not a belief statement' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'anyone thinking it was a belief statement is moronic' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and yeah, he could still have run, if he thinks government bad... why not try to get rid of as much as possible.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, seriously, it was a belief statement.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"small enough to drown in a bathtub"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'running theme.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk. T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'running theme.debate sorry, that was norquist, a reaganite.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weren't you going to bed, man?' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, "I believe that centralized government should be limited" is entirely different than your stance that Tiger (and reagan) were stating that "government never helps, ever"' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Saudi Arabia are looking to build a 1km tall tower' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the first is also the stance of nearly every founding father...' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i subscribe to that, abe' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what Reagan said is more of a reaction to the effects of bad government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking as someone who has a bad government, i at least can sympathise with what he said' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently that makes something akin the Satan' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '5am, I need to leave, but what I contend is that your definitions of limited would be devestating in reality, as when you get down to it, conservatives like spending too... just on different things.' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the US, if the federal government was limited to what powers were originally granted to it by the founding documents, you'd be about there' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is to say, there'd be nothing wrong with your system of government, provided it was run and maintained in the spirit in which it was formed' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's far harder to say for the UK which has mongrel government' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speculating that Sunsoar is from Singapore' T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Did you know I'm written in C?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(barter) nopk'ers do lots of things: avoid the cuss on clantalk, avoid the pk hassle while leveling, avoid the clan muzzle, avoid clan politics, silently meditate on life's deeper ironies' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Are society's morals slowly being eroded?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'one thing i've never got was how inevitable it all seems, and i kept thinking, how did we get good moral standards in the first place?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no one has thoughts about this?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that know the answer are waiting to read what the trolls type' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Cunningham's law then.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not googling, maybe wikipedia later ' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are going to bandy obscure "laws" ..' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'don't know the answer, maybe people feel less connected to each other now, people used to joins social organizations and feel connected. People often don't speed in their own neighborhood because they know people with kids will confront them, if its more of a through street people will be more likely to speed.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i guess that could be a contributing factor.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is perhaps the effect of (the loosely paraphrased) Gresham's Law to conjecture the difficulty of decent ethics to evolve (iffy though)' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so if people were more connected now would they be able to be more decent?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in economics and finance, "bad money drives out good money" - Gresham's Law' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'they would feel more pressure to do the right thing for society. It seems it would depend on which ethical situation you are looking at.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not sure how that applies' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'could you elaborate?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so in a twisted paraphrase, "bad ethics discourages good ethics"' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yet, "eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty"' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'given the choice between laziness and hardwork, often they would choose the path of least resistance, it isn't undervalued at all.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm wondering how people grew to have better ethics, to care more about people.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"decent ethics" is able to evolve (from an evolutionary perspective), perhaps; -- an academic conjecture is whether there is a "benign influence" sufficiently able to effect decent rthics soonor than never' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'The Church was responsible of some of that, the code of chivalry I think was started by the church, and many abolitionists were Christian *puts earplugs in before the screaming starts*' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's a bit untrue. Buddhism, Islam (yes, old Islam) was also much about ethics.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the RC Church was responsible for the Dark ages and for spreading badness and ignorance ' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not to mention crusades. the evolution of religions often makes it evil because of the interpretations of people.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yes evil evil ideas like charity towards the poor, though shall not steal. evil evil things.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'we're not saying these ideas weren't professed, zade raused that Christianity brought quite a few woes of it's own.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there were armies moving across the world long before the crusades.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the RCC was an abomination -- if any "decency" evolved, likely was in spite of the Church, not because of; the Church was likely forced to be more decent by outside influences' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the crusades were a stupid ass task of peple marching across land and sea to die for a holy land that wasn't their's,both unprepared and ill informed, no one has ever done so consecutively in any other name.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I can't agree with that idea. There have always been bad aspects about the church, but there have been many many good people in the church.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'again, the church brought good, but to attribute niceness to religion isn't the answer.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?" "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:22-23 is likely Jesus speaking against the christian churches and judaic synagogues' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'likely extremists.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in the end, the morality of religions are formed by the people who practice them, so why did these people have good ethics?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"cast out devils in thy name" -- RCC did a lot of genocides and murders and exterminations and depravities etcetera (in the name of "god")' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and some protestant churches picked up from the RCC ' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'let's not get distracted from topic, religion is a pain in the neck to debate about.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'these were practiced by disillusioned people, they are no gauge of a religion's merits, or penalties, pretty much all religions went through this phase.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is doubt as to whether the "churches" are with "good ethics"' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as i have stated, it's the people,so why were there people with good ethics, and what influenced people to take up bad ones?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how can people instill morals in the current society?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:16 "By their fruits you shall know them. ... " so the "practitioners" are a "gauge" of a "religion's merits"' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:15 "Beware of false prophets (==teachers), who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'for a person who speaks about the evils of the church, you quote a lot of scripture.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or are you saying these aren't part of the original ideas?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'matt 7:19 "Every tree (church perhaps, and the corrupt flock) that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire." -- that loose paraphrase may be spot-on or maybe excessive or perhaps debatable' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'depends on your viewpoint, should those that practice corrupted faith be persecuted and killed? Or should these corrupted sects be denounced, not just in Christianity, but in all religions.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Malkar, you still there?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yikes, excessive extrapolation' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari raises an eyebrow. T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'matt 7:3 "And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye"' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'seriously?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Malkar's left, there is seriously no need to expound on that point.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'left as in left the debate channel. Maybe we were too hard on him.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(debating religion is a decades intense hobby here). (pleased to cast you into the lake of fire, but don't guess me name) (you likely be wrong.) ( no sympathy for the .... ) ' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly. T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's not a real debate if the guy leaves without arguing his case.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'we're off topic actually, but i'm loath to look up the topic again.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'G'night.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'US doctors have figured out how to make babies from our own cells for the purposes of transplants and gene therapy.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'not eve close to true' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'great. i need a new body for my awsom bbrain' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303626804579507593658361428?ru=yahoo?mod=yahoo_itp&mg=reno64-wsj&url=httpAFFonline.wsj.comFarticleFSB10001424052702303626804579507593658361428.htmlFruDyahooFmodDyahoo_itp' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'learn a little science you are combining a fantasy applucation with a discovery' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it has zero to do with 'gene therapy'' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'looks sciency enough for me. where is that house where they do that?' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the science in the "Venture Bros" cartoon is mostly fiction' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we don't even have to remove humanity from the overall equation to see what a lack of humanity would bring.' T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Chernobyl, Detroit, and many other sites both large and small (ranging down to individual homestead-sized sites) have almost fully reverted in a mere 20-40 years.' T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'cellulosic biofuels (ie, corn leftovers) won't meet environmental standards set by a 2007 law in the US, making them 7% worse than petroleum with regards to global warming.' T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the cost of gas is going to go up because we're using cleaner fuel...' T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the cost of gas is going to go up because US oil companies are refining domestic oil and selling it in Europe instead of distributing it in the US.' T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'kill the Koch Brothers - problem solved' T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are the Koch brothers making corn oil? Perhaps they are, but I would not think even rich, fat cat Democrats would be foolish enough to swallow massive fines instead of passing them on to the consumer. That's just not good business.' T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://sealevel.climatecentral.org/' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, Twitter has been out blocking Twitter accounts of dissidents exposing government corruption' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no freedom of speech in modern communication, it seems' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'no freedom of speech in the internet? really?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'well it was posted in well-known Twitter, they just want to protect themselves' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not surprising, i think it's a problem with people, not twitter' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'in what sense?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people believe that electronic communication is an extension of talking, and governments and the internet companies DO try and propogate that myth' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's people's fault in that they believe the myth' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? If you try telling most people that they don't have freedom of speech on twatbook or twatter, they'll call you a conspiracy theoriest' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'pretty sure there is some freedom' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'no such thing as 100% freedom anyway' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'THAT's what you tell the twats' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at what point is it non-free, and is it in the correct place?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you ban any talk online that might upset anybody, or break any law from any country?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'the bit about different country and different laws, how did they try to resolve it?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea if it's even possible without applying all laws to all internet usage' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would result in a castrated internet where you couldn't say anything' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be basically just an advertising forum for corporations at that point - which let's face it, is it's main use now' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'castration' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd prefer for it to be treated as a public commons with total freedom of speech' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or rather, if you advertise yourself as a public means of communication, such as twatter, or twatbook, then you should follow that standard' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not take down people's pages on twatbook just because Michael Bloomberg shoved you a bunch of money to go with his agenda' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'it was to earn money? not to avoid being taken down or something?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the case of twatter it was pressure from the Turkish government (not really loss of money) and in twatbook's it wasn't loss of money, it was political agenda' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i understand twatter's situation, but twatbook? whose political agenda?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'twatbook have a habit of capitulating to the feds without question, even when they're in the right' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'twatbook has been taking down/victimising gunstores, gun clubs, and generally anyone vaguely pro-2nd ammendment after considerable 'pushing' by michael bloomberg's lot' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e nothing to do with revenue or the law' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'lol ' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Does turkey have a constituional freedom of speech?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were to do with revenue, they'd be promoting such sites as gun and ammo purchases are well up over the last few years' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'maybe it was just for show, to please micheal, idk' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey is essentially an authoritarian Islamic state, Ranrr, it makes me physically sick that they'd even consider letting them join the EU' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, then the probably is really there.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably what' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i like stuffed turkey for thanksgiving... oh wait' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Bobolai has been here just a second ago. You wonder where she went ... T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i like puns.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'On that note, I definitely hope that turkey will not be accepted.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will happen if it's in the IMF's interests' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'authoritarian or not' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not that it really matters, the EU has no real power.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're joking, right?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sovereign members cannot pass laws contrary to EU laws' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's a stale, dying organisation.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, it's stale and dying alright' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should never have expanded beyond it's early troop of SIMILAR economies' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's become a tool of impoverishing rich countries and looting poor ones' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No doubt. But that was the purpose.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly what the IMF wants, bring everyone poor and beholden to bigger and larger governmental bodie' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a bit like the US federal government but on a wider scale' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No military power, though, that's the difference.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no military power yet' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, not yet.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it IS on the cards, however' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, it's inevitable. And it will kill nato, and bring WWIII.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it won't kill nato' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nato is nothing without europe.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is odd, because it's mostly all USA' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The real power comes from the military bases all over the world. Without europe, that will disappear.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop them having bases there' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It will.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have plenty outside the EU, too' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too many' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it more likely the collapse of the USA will cause them to leave those bases before anything happens to the EU' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, maybe nato will not be dead, just less powerful than today. ' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's already irrelevent' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't think the US will collapse before WWIII.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already is' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just in slow motin' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Just as europe collapsed before WWII. Once you declare martial law, financial collaps is irrelevant.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could argue it has been since the early 70s' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but at speed since 2001' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Europe has collapsed before every major war. ' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's just a question of when WWIII will happen, not if. Hopefully, I'll be dead.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, it'll be within 25 years' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I might make it.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'any good non-fiction thrillers I should pick up and read?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'or fiction. either way' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tony Blair's biography' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh wait, you wanted non-fiction' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'heh' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a jolly good primer for politically unsavvy people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mjf2-p4Pcx8' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'per the Fair Housing Law, landlords can be seen to be discriminatory even if they aren't actually discriminating against anyone.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Fox (the Cable Networks parent, I think) fired an executive for using company email in a charitable cause.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lovely' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that any less ethical that MSNBC for blocking staff from investigating stories negative to the Obama regime?' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I equate it to bank tellers to run down bank robbers. All the public is going to see is that someone was doing a good thing and Big Business shut it down.' T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty stupid to view corporate news networks to be anything other than money-making business. Being impartial, fair, or even vaguely truthful or ethical is largely irrevelent - they'll do what they think they can get away with, just like any other business' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i understand why we have to study history, but why must i be forced to remember names and dates as well?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'what else is history?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if the study of history is to prevent people from making the same mistakes, then should i need to remember names and dates instead of events?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'agreed, jop' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'might be hard to discuss that holothingy that that one guy did a while ago without names... or dates.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's alright if you want to study it, devote your time to it, but if i am uninterested in the details of who and when, why should i have to remember it.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you need to remember those names and dates so you have an elementary understanding of the events ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'an elementary understanding of events would be why and how we can avoid making the same mistake.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but can you understand what x person was thinking without know when he lived and/or did what he did' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'timing and order make a differnce as well' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'absolutely' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the mistake you will make by repeating history will have no real connection with the person's mindset, history is supposed to teach you what not to do, instead i'm learning about what he was thinking, is that useful knowledge?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'yes' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'he/she*' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'history is not all about learning people's mistakes, it's about watching our growth as a civilization/culture' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when i decide to make a decision and i rein myself back, it isn't because i remember someone else thought the same, it was because i realised someone had done it and regretted it very much.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Then should it not be for the enthusiasts who wish to have an indepth understanding of the culture? It seems that rather than names and dates we should learn how people's environs affect their mindsets.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but that mindset has influences that go back thousands of years' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'his name will not afffect his decisions directly, rather it is his environ, so why must i still remember dates.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'summarise. i don't need a back in 300 B.C, X person decided that he should do Y. The latter would have sufficed.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'X may represent a name like Descartus, Leonidas, Immanuel Kant, etc.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in the end what i mean is that if you want to study it it's fine, but people shouldn't be forced to remember every bloody detail.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'so when you know that person's name you can find out the other things that person did, who they married, who had influence over his life, if he had children, etc' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you can know his whole story and not just one decision he made, but why he made that decision' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'irrelevant, if taken in a whole i don't need to know their names, just how they affected the person. He had a wife that was kind and influenced him to push for himan rights.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'for example.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but if you don't know his name how would you reference that information' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i wouldn't know, but the textbooks are compiled by enthusiasts who do know and simplified so that i can understand without memorising.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heck, you could probably take our current history books and simplify the thing.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the records will exist for all to find, but these parts will no longer be a part of the curicullum. Rather, it would be knowledge for those who wish to have more in-depth knowledge to find.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'like some people in my class who remembered some politician's old house address.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'knowing names and dates gives you a point of reference, period. You may not think it's important but it is a building block to allow more critical thinking.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then it should be reference rather than something i must remember.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the stuffing of information into the brain does not help them think.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'so everytime you have a thought about something in history you want to go look that up, find out who it was again, reread it all and then have your complete thought?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the reference could be in the text book, but i shouldn't have to memorise the damn thing.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some trolls and deliberate ignoramusses misquote history, saying something happened when something didn't, saying somebody did something when they didn't, and without names and dayes, ignoramus troll-fest' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'hehe' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hmm, that might be a problem.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'troll-fun by misquoting "references"' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'here's a page from a grade school on why we learn history http://www.calvertnet.k12.md.us/departments/instruction/socialstudies/documents/TheReasonsWhy.pdf' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but if everyone were stipid enough to take everything without research, stuffing it in ain't gonna help.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the student "hopes" that the "stuffing" is not "inaccurate" (or skewed by omitted: perspectives and facts and interpretations)' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but if you know that information you don't have to spend your entire adult life cross checking everything someone says' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i would still cross-check, remember the tougue map, sweet,salty,sour,bitter?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and umami' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'is it a truth?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when debating "religion", recheck everything, almost challenge everything; those religious nutters are deluded (self-proclaimed truth-teller) liars' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'read the linked pdf, i agree with all their points, but it doesn't in any way justify the memorisation of names and dates throughout.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'then don't memorize names and dates... like a said they give you a point of reference so that you can study the broader concepts, but by all means don't do it if you don't want' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wait, i think we're working under different assumptions here, your education system doesn't require memorisation right?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"there was a scripture somewhere that said ..." -- without specifific scripture numbers, locations, names, dates, the ignoramus illiterate is not believable' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if so, then this whole debate was pointless, because i was under the impression you had to.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then there's the people who make up names, dates and percentages.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you don't have to do anything in this world but die... simply put' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think i didn't say have to do in this world, i think i said in your education system.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'somebody's sarcasm-meter is not working (i'd mention a name, but that somebody dislikes names)' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a light hint of sarcasm with maybe a dollop of incredulity.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'decisions you make on you what you choose not to study and memorise may have negative consequences, but you don't have to do it' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wait, that's from my side, yep, my sarcasm meter is working fine.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'translation: "be lazy and you may be sorry later"' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'do what? the decisions? or the study?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but if you suspect that the names and dates are wrong ...' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the study is for additional useless info like name, D.O.B, D.O.D, favorite foods, dog name, etc.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the decisions you make will have no correlation with this, it will be with the event.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'dob and dod is not useless it let's you know what was going on in the world when that person was alive' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'favorite food and dog name, if your teacher makes you memorize that they need to quit getting lesson plans from teen magazines' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a group of angry people given a push will riot, i don't want to remember a group of angry 300B.C people given a push by a man named Wallace will riot.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the whole idea that i would need to remember dates and names, therefore, would be ludicrious.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'what exactly was the push, what was going on in the world at the time, who influenced people involved, you need names and dates for that' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unlikely there was anybody famous named "Wallace" in 300 BC, but then maybe ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'any group of people raised in that manner, treated that way, would riot, the date the riot happened, and the name of the incitor, would not change things a whit.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'sure it would, raised in what manner? there was an inciter? what was his story and why did he incite them?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now Vaporz, i have no intention of typing out an entire historical text, even shortened, just to make an example, are the push, what was going on categorised under name and time?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm showing you the questions names and dates answer, i'm not really asking you' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but if i traveled in Mr Peabody's waybacmachine, dates and names are important, to know which abominatiomns to assassinte and or disrupt' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if not, are the name and time really so important my tests need to make me spew almost halfway through my paper with names and dates?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm assuming you are in secondary school or early college?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'do the names and dates answer the questions? or do they raise them? 1950, what happened in 1950?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are unable to specify "names and dates", you likely are unable to recall "references" ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'it's akin to learning your numbers before you learn to add' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's what books are for, providing reference, do i need to have them in my brain all the darn time.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'math and this have very little in common.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'except that in any course of study you need basic knowledge before you learn the next concept' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its good to learn how to remember things...' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'that too elchanan' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'even things i down-right despise?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'historical reference: when some books were burned, some scholars were able to reconstruct the books word for word (note the missing lacations, dates, names)' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"you're making that balderdash up" -- without names or dates or locations, the reference is "balderdash"' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well you should to know how to remember information before remembering information is essential to a career for ex' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i love memorising biology names and concepts, i am enthralled by physics and enjoy Chemistry, but should i really memorise all the things i won't use?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'don't enjoy either.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like if you wanted to be a lawyer case names and the outcomes at least would be extremely important' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"biology names" ych -- unless Latin is learned, then more ych' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'hehe you still haven't learned you have to do things in this world you don't enjoy? you are a pup...' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and dates too in the case that your info is outdated and since been overturned' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the scholars you mention, Zade, are either enthusiasts or people who have been forced to memorise this stuff, suffered through it, and are one of the elite.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i know i will have to do things i don't enjoy, but i have a right to complain if it is unnecessary.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elchanan, becoming a lawyer is to specialise, in which case you already know you have a knack for it, and you know you'll need it.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what is so unnecessary about rememberinf names and dates' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'then go complain to the people who can change it. Make it a mission, Take it before your local school board. Who knows maybe people will agree with you and you'll start a movement. ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'very true but that is only one specialty and there are many specialties' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'at my level of study, how important will it be for me to memorise that WW1 was officially started off by the assassination of Ferdinand. Theb i'd need to remember the whole process, the turning of Italy, MUssolini, and etc, etc, etc.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what lv of study is that' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'secondary school.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'hehe' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'your level of study is still getting a basic understanding of the world and learning how to learn' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i use this channel to temper my opinion, and also to determine if it is flawed.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so you have not picked a field' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Science, from there i'll figure something out.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea your gonna need a good memory for that :P' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'anyways gotta wash car' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and as far as stuffing your brain with facts... it's not a hard drive that's gonna run out of space' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'does it mean i ought to fill it with WW1(2), American history, British history and etc.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'yep' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no, i'll drop out first.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'there ya go, decisions' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my grades will be dragged to the floor by my history and geography, and then nothing will save it.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'gotta love compulsory subjects.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'or you can buckle down, study it for this very short period of your life and come out a better person because of it, but to each his own' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yeah, and then my time will be wasted from that, i will be disadvantaged to those who actually can memorise way faster, and still be disadvantaged as all will be insanely... average.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hell, maybe below average.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'gotta go for a bit :) baby is awake' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the difficulty with "names and dates" is likely from: not comprehending the historical references and or disliking those references, and or boredom with those references' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'lack of comprehension of why on earth i must have a number link to a name to an event, and vice versa.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which may be due to insufficient coherent exposition and explanation of those references' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the numbers and names are not abhorrent, the idea of wasting time on them is.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'numbers are very, very, bloody boring, unless looked at from a mathematical perspective.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how would you provide coherant exposition to the date the Opium war started?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'congrats' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but more likely: "uou want to play internet games, and thus you dislike schoolwork" ---> potential uneducated loser later' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah, i'm going to study biology and chemistry, become a failure from history, and live life as an educated loser.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'internet games aren't my main pastime.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'reading still holds that position.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, the history of Opium trade in China -- excellent topic for "bashing the British"' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'suddenly, the topic no longer sounds appealling, i've heard quite a few of those.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade likes to study controversial "taboo" subjects and use f***ing astericks ... "fricking" you dirty-minded a****** T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heh, unfortunately, some i would call dead topics, because i have heard so many renditions, i'm tired.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'studying controversial subjects is educational' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'too many and it no longer becomes so.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it becomes, mainstream, everybody talks about it.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'politics, religion, sex, prejudices, intolerance, (no holds barred discussion, no politically-correct-censoring)' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now that would be a sight to see.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but no cussing simply to be cussing ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade astericks out cussing, and or deletes the whole line T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unfortunately i know not enough about politics in other countries.' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is in Canada. freedom of though yet exists here T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly. T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Joe Biden was sent to Ukraine. Wasn't it nice of USA to send it's national village idiot...' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'we do what we can' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a study warns in the UK that teachers are disproportionately made up of the racidal left, politically speaking' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'does the UK pay its teachers trash in primary school?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but it does micromanage schools to the point that it's practically impossible to get a quality education' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'who is doing the micromanaging? appointed beaurocrat or elected official?' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"warns" ?!? -- seems like propaganda by Tigernuts' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'also, in other shockings, most abortion clinics are run by the far left, too' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was in a piece warning how extreme elements have taken over the unions' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably need to largely remove government from education, give people the ability to choose their kids education will mitigate the influence of the left' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seeems the "piece" is from somebody that sold out to the greedy capitalists' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'privately funded education condemns the poor to being uneducated tho' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said it would be privately funded, though i'm not ideologically opposed to private education, unlike the left here' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seen plenty of evidence of the far-left infiltration of american schools, too' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than taking government and politics out of the classroom, i'd suggest we scrap the obsession with sending kids to university' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'there's nothing wrong with sending children to university, assuming that the cost of going isn't prohibitive for any class of people' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since the greedy far-right capitalists pay for the politicians to be elected, and those "paid" poliicians then ruin the UK public education system, the blame is on the capitalists' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'but the expectation that college degree = high paying job... that's not gonna be sustained if everyone has a college degree' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already not sustained, scars, ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it's still true that, in your lifetime, you will earn more with a degree than without' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not enough to pay back to uni fees though' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'on average, it is... it's just that it's trending in the wrong direction' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK government warned on that recently, it'll soon be -ve' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'right, but "soon" is not "now"' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the USA, the CIA used to fund the Universities and thus inexpensive higher education' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be now by the time anyone looking to go to university has finished' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'my degree has earned me exactly nothing scars' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'please do not make me explain why any random sample from the cohort is not expected to be indicative of the statistical characterists of the cohort...' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'would have bee far better off just working a crap min wage job and investing every bit i can save' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps with that higher education, you learned how to debate on a game channel' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'in other words, you are n=1, you and all of your friends might be n=100... statistically insignificant given the population of the studies done' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be nice if they went back to being centres of academic excellence for the academic elite in academic subjects such as science and engineers' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"better off" is not "being stupid"' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'there is increasing focus on the ridiculous degree paths offered at universities in america' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'usingl' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more than 3/4 of the people where i work hold PHd's Zade, i can guarantee you that while in their narrow field they might be well qualified, many of them suffer from being dumber than a box of rocks that i wouldn't trust my kids with' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'oopse ' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'life smart vs book smart, imo' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need both, shame there's precious little of either these days' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tony Blair set a goal of sending 50% of all 18yr olds to university. That is why university degrees are practically worthless in the UK' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'if the degree is less rare, ergo less valuable.. that's an acceptable consequence imo' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'again, given the financial burden to get the degree is not prohibitive' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the problem, they were mostly shit degrees' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'stupid kids learning a hard lesson then imo' T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'media & social sciences' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i know company x is going to bid for company y at a 30% premium next week. i buy company y stock. am i always insider trading? answer is no. sometimes america is fucked up' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'depends whether it's inside information no?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'yea, it's material nonpublic info' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what exception is this?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it's the jewish hedge fund manager exception' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'otherwise known as bill ackman' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'whats this now' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i always thought insider trading was a load of crap, why shouldn't someone who worked themselves into a position to be in the know be able to use the info they have?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'market fairness' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it's complicated' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because they're not only in a position to be in the know, they're often in a position to influence' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'stocks are a zero sum game' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'thats not nessasarily what inside info is tho' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you're making money someone is losing' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you mean that someone who is in the position to know should cheat the rest of the shareholders... makes sense to me.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'stocks are not a zero sum game' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well not the only type' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'why not?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'for starters, they generate profits so value goes up over time' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well some stocks pay a return redryn' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we're talking about trading here, not really long term holding' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'insider trading concerns people who trade on sudden fluctuations in price' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'day trading is a zero sum game, essentially' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok i guess i misphrased but you get the point' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'insider trading is simply trading on knowledge which has not been made public yet' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if you know or should have know the info was insider info than you should not place a trade' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'just because i make money in a stock doesn't mean somebody is losing. there are usually more people that own the stock than are short the stock' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what's the line on pork futures?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elchan there is not short or simple answer' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'derivatives are a zero sum game' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in most cases it should be pretty obvious' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'a company comes to me and says hey i want to buy company x for 30% more than the market. will you buy company x stock to help me? is that insider trading mr. obvious?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'or reverse if you want to, i go to the company and propose they buy company x at a 30% premium and the company says great idea we'll do that next week. can i buy the stock?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's a broker who is executing the trade, rather than a financial advisor who is prompting the trade' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'this just happened to the tune of $4 billion' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'let's put it another way: X goes to way and says "Lend me 300M so that I can buy company Z". Y lends the money then goes and buys all the stock from X's company he can. That's insider trading.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'who's saying it's not insider trading?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'X goes to Y*' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'sounds like colluding to do a hostile take over. and in the case that a person owns more than a certain % of a stock they have to report changes in positions' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'www.wsj.com' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and if a broker knew this transaction was going on and bought ahead of the play it would be called front running and that is illegal' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'I will lay 50:1 that this rich jewish hedge fund manager (it's not me) won't get a slap on the wrist' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'wsj said this is not insider trading?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you mean won't get punished, or will get more than a wrist slap?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'most observers agree it's not' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'he won't get punished' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's odd' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'not being punished vs not being insider trading is different' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which of your scenarios was this one?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the former is a lack of enforcement' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'from what i've read on insider trading (not US law), the elements are extremely easy to make out' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'that sounds more like front running' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'can make it out to be either one, abe' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you talking about cohen?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ackman' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'here's the best article on it: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304049904579517970196604840?KEYWORDS=ackman&mg=reno64-wsj' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't see much wrong with what he did...when you want to do a quietish takeover bid, you usually do start by quietly buying up available shares until you've got enough to do something...and when the takeover bid comes public, you will benefit from what happens to the value of those shares...' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it's not really his bid' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'valeant came to him and said we want to buy allergan' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'so he bought 10% of allergan, and then valeant bid 30% premium' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i cant even see that whole article' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'instead of valeant doing what ackman did, for the benefit of valeant shareholders, they told ackman and let him do it himself' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'pretty nice way to make $800 million' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'zero ris' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'risk' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, not entirely zero risk, allergan could've made other choices' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'not really, allergan has no defense to a bid. some companies have choices, but allergan doesn't' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the entire board can be kicked out in 60 days. that allows them literally zero defense' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if that were true, then he wouldn't be resorting to trying to threaten them to take the bid' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'he doesn't need to threaten yet, everybody understands what happens now. if allergan rejects, ackman starts the vote to kick out the board and shareholders will agree and vote them out to take a deal instead of letting stock fall' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he did threaten' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the only real variable is whether somebody else decides to bid more or some crazy regulatory intervention happens' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i wish a company would give me advance notice next time they are interested in another company so i can you know buy 10% of it and make an easy profit' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'such a fucking joke' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not just valeant buying allergan with him getting a free ride...ackerman's investment is an important part of the bid' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'and what i said about the board is true, allergan has the poorest defenses i've ever seen in a US company. they had this coming to them' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what's important about it?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is why valeant talked to him about it first...they wanted his help' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'nothing is important about it, valeant could have bought the shares themselves in the same way ackman did' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what's important about it is that it makes it not strictly an outside takeover' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and is why he stated he did not buy valeant because that would have for sure been inside info' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'that's the paradox elchan' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You nod at Elchanan. T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ackman is receiving stock in valeant. so he is restricted from buying valeant but it's ok to buy allergan at a 30% discount to the bid he knows is coming and get paid cash and valeant stock when the deal closes? ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'however like i said sounds like front running' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well they can reject that offer' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he stands to receive stock in valeant, yes..."is receiving" isn't correct yet' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it sounds and smells and feels like what it is - total inside trading. and you guys think i like to walk up to the line.. lol' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You snicker softly. T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ackman is not 'part of the deal', he just agrees to vote his shares in favor of the deal. they can paper it up to make it look like he's 'part' of the deal (he does nothing except get paid and start a proxy contest, in reality), but constructively he's a total fucking crook insider trading.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ackmans knowledge was not inside information to allergan' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it would have been if they had accepted and offer and he knew it before the transaction was announced' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'he knew valeant was going to bid for the company' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'accepted is irrelevant when the bid is at a premium and they can force it in. it will get accepted' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it will likely be accepted...that's not the same' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if he knew my senile grandmother was going to announce a bid for allergan, i would not say he would be insider trading' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the stock is up 30% abelinc' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, as is usual' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hell, that happens when there's just rumors of someone buying, much less an offer on the table' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'no pt in playing semantics when the reality is stark. he had material nonpublic info. he bought the stock. bid announced. apparently legal.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if valeant ceo told his son who bought allergan stk that would be isnider trading' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if valeant ceo told you and u bought stock, have a nice prison sentence' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if valeant tells ackman and he buys $4b of stock for perchign square, enjoy the $800 million' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'and the SEC would hound u until the ends of the earth and leave ackman alone except ask him for a cushy job as compliance officer or research assistant' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so what did he put down in sections 4 & 5 of his 13D?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'has he been cleared by the sec yet' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'just announced yday elchan, if the SEC actually has a pair it's too early to swing them' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'Valeant currently intends to propose a merger in which the Issuers shareholders will receive a combination of cash and Valeant common shares. Valeant has not yet determined the amount of cash and number of Valeant common shares it will offer, but it currently expects the cash component will total around $15 billion. Barclays and Royal Bank of Canada have indicated that they are prepared to deliver financing commitments covering the cash portion of the transaction at the time Valeant makes an offer. ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'Although Valeant currently expects to make an offer, it is under no obligation and provides no assurance it will do so. If Valeant fails to make an offer before May 2, 2014, the Reporting Persons will have the right to terminate the letter agreement described in Item 6 below and wind up PS Fund 1. ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'The Reporting Persons and Valeant intend to consult with each other in connection with their respective investments in Common Stock, as described in Item 6 below. ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that was ackman's disclosure?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'yes' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'pershing square / its GP / Ackman are the reporting persons' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'Pershing has filed the 13D jointly with Valeant Pharmaceutical (VRX). Pershing and Valeant entered into their agreement on February 25th, 2014 and they're working together via a joint vehicle called 'PS Fund 1, LLC' that VRX will contribute $75.9 million to.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'obviously ackman got it vetted by white shoe legal teams, and if you read the agreements there are some legal machinations, but you unavoidably arrive at the fact that valeant told pershing they wanted to buy agn. pershing bought the shares in advance, and valeant announced the bid. in the meantime, instead of pershing taking a $4B stake on that info, valeant could have done it for their own shareholders but didn't.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the paper might describe it as a "joint" bid, but there is nothing joint about it. pershing just gets paid out at the end of the day and moves on' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'honestly i have not got to reading that part yet so yea' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'basically, valeant wanted some agreeable people with voting stock as allergan shareholders...he's a plant to speak on their behalf without being valeant...' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and looks like valeant provided the source for at least some of the funding' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'bottom of page 5 on the 13D' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'correct abe' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'pershing is not really providing financing. maybe $400mm if you want to get creative, but constructively nothing' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if the valeant ceo tips you off that they are going to bid for a copmany, just have a conversation about wanting some agreeable with voting stock beforehand and buy away!' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dude ok this should end they did not tip him off they are working jointly' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'basically...at least until the laws are changed to be more in line with the spirit that you'd prefer ;-)' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and they probably want and investment advisor to help the work the deal through' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which they probably will (be changed, that is)' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: ''jointly'. hmm mm. and what does pershing bring to the table other than a 9.7% vote which valeant could have acquried for itself in the same way for its own shareholders rather than paying ackman a premium? not seeing what ackman is bringing at all.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elcan, valeant is a professional dealmaker. the most acquisitive company in the history of pharma' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'they don't need an 'investment advisor'' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and why would you say that' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'because I know valeant very well (just not as well as ackman!)' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'does not mean that there are not cases where they might wanna use an advisor' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'for context they will basically have gone from $2 to $100 billion in 5 years all through dozens of mergers if they get allergan done' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elchan yea i expect they will say whatever their lawyer needs to be said to minimize ackman's legal risk.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'but ackman isn't advising.. allergan was valeant's idea. nor is he really providing any financing (that comes from banks, not hedge funds)' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what ackman brought to the table simply was the ability to buy shares longer before disclosure would be necessary...so valeant's "side" would have a stronger base' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'did you read that 13D even' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'disclosure window is the same' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'yes, E.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'HSR and 13-D rules apply the same to both pershing and valeant' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'except as intent to take over a firm' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what are you referncing' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how many of valeants past mergers/aqucisitions where hostile in nature' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'HSR is a dollar threshold. 13-D is an ownership threshold with intent mattering once over 5% but same window regardless of whether you are a fund or a company' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'numerous, E' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'are you theorizing or do you have a specific concern' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'whats a hostile takeover they did' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'plz tell me this question has a purpose other than testing me' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like thier failed hostile takeover of cephalon' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'who later merged with teva' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ista' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'im just thinking ackman obviosly has something to bring to the table or they would not have went to him' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'dont put the cart before the horse' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ista rejected valeant's offer...' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'and then what happened' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bausch & lomb bought them, but that was before valeant bought B&L' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dont use debate ohhh so another rejected takeover humm' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so while they're owned by them now, they were never taken over by valeant' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is funny cuz valeant had offered almost 70% premium on shares' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and pealse dont use what ever the those are called "dont put the cart in font of the horse" ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'kind of meaningless info' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'look up afexa' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what's the pt, i love playing stump kojiro, ask me moar' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i mean juictice' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/afexa-approves-valeant-takeover-bid/article555568/' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elchan, every hostile deal ends in a friendly' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it has to' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'article places it as a friendly $76-million takeover' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no it does not' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'dont be full of shit' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'please explain to me how a hostile deal can be completed without it being friendly' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, if allergan sez no, and ackman and company oust the board and take over, that'd be rather non-friendly' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'in canada it's theoretically possible. in the US, it's impossible.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'no, that goes friendly when the board signs the merger agreement and recommends sharehodlers vote in favor of it' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and no paper would write it as being a friendly takeover' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well if you can buy up enough of the company then replace board and what not ...' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that makes it successful, it doesn't make it friendly' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'the original board is no longer there soo yea ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'a board recommending shareholders vote for a deal sounds pretty friendly to me' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are plenty of friendly mergers/aquisitions, and there are plenty of successful non-friendly ones' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the new directors don't have to agree. sometimes they actually reject' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'in which case no deal' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'just look up the definition' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if the company does not aporive of takeover it is hostile' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'hostile = board does not recommend in favor. friendly = board recommends in favor. there is your definition. it's not hard.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yp so like i said find a hostile takeover that they had sucess in' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the funnt part being you asked for a hostile, i gave you one which was completed, and then YOU called it friendly b/c the board recommended in favor. so it would seem you agree w/ me' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and seriously tho a 76 million $ takeover is nothing compared to a possible 15 billion' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, we called it friendly because it was a friendly offer, which was never resisted' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if board agrees and shareholders agree its friendly' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'paladin had a hostile takeover offer, valeant had a friendly one' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'see imm' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, yup saw' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so like i was saying it might have been very well in valeants best interest and the best interest of its shareholders. Use a firm like Pershing in order to increase there chance of sucess ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and its not insider trading from what i can tell' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i can't think of a theory for how that works though. valeant could have bought the votoing stake themselves' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'not only that if the deal does go through pershing will be left holding 1.5 bill in valeant stock with a 1 year restriction of sellion of hedging those shares' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but thats not that they do' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'they are not an investment firm' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'so a third of the position he has now for a short while, representing like 1.5% of the combined company. what does that mean...' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what is pershing then' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'valeant funded part of the current position ' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: '2%' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'of the position' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea im seeing they put in what 75.9 mill' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'evenin to you, thought criminals' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nice, Georgetown Tx brings in ordnance to limit the size of your lawn' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarutobi: 'Having more free time isn't the same as having money to spend. You still have to use that time. You might be able to play 20 hours a day while I play 20 hours a week, but our characters are on even footing 20 hours played. Let's assume we both have lots of free time. I donate lots of money. For the purpose of our characters competing against one another at 20 hours played (combat, for instance), I will have a significant advantage.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarutobi: 'I would call that unfair.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarutobi: 'rather, an unfair advantage. I'm not saying the system is unfair. Feel free to match donations or play more hours than me to catch up.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if no one donates it is unlikely that there will be a place to spend 20 hours playing, at least not here.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some players pupped 1,000,000 pups, or 5,000,000 trains, or (5,000,000/10)*325/100 = 1,625,000 dollars if somebody believed that donations were able to catch up with that T9 player fast' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when has there ever been a time when not enough donations were made?' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'we don't know what the total donations are, so that answer has to be speculative.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I dunno, Lasher's only done donations for a few months at a time for a long while. If he were having a cash-for-aardwolf problem, I wouldn't expect him to close down donations simply because the traditional timeframe had been reached.' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'on the other hand, we are not really in a position to determine why Lasher does what he does...' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'donations have come in slower the past few openings than previously, but donations are usually kept open long enough to have a few months "escrow"' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and zade, no player has pupped 1,000,000 pups' T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hrm, misread a whois, reduce the 1,000,000 pups to 100,000 pups and the 1,625,000 to 162,500 dollars -- yet a hefty sum' T3/r7/2014-04-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Greg Abbot kicking arse. Perhaps slightly tasteless since he's in a wheelchair' T3/r7/2014-04-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU elections here soon' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well, now i know Malaysia's truly in deep waters, as i will be if i don't get the hell out.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hudud is once again being raised up. Damn PM says Malaysia isn't ready yet.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'A political party intends to review and see if it fits their bible, the fact that they're considering this is mad.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'eh? i saw malaysia mentioned, can someone catch me up on what's being discussed?' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i just raised it, -h 10 ought to do.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'ah, yes, the entire region is fucked really' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i live here, i know that bloody well.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'as do i' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'get out man, but where to? which country ISN'T fucked really?' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they also want to bring non-muslims before Syariah.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Can't still studying, parents not qualified enough.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'to get out is easy, where the heck to go is the hard part.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i don't think they'll pass those laws though, there'll be too much backlash' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i mean seriously, even among the muslim communit' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you really think so? When have they really cared, it's another 5 years till elections.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i do, there will be riots, again' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'remember bersih(i think that's what it was called) 2.0' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'again, hopefully we're mpre persuasive next time.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Bersih was non-violent, and they didn't give a damn.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'didn't it get violent though? like water cannons and all' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'water canons fired at PEACEFUL demonstrators, violence on the police end doen't garauntee violence of protesters.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'l' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'next one they didn't send water canons and said it was thanks to them the riot was peaceful.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'l?' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'sorry, typo, doing a bit of research now' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i'm a malaysian who's never lived in malaysia' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unsurprised, we need to get the hell out.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heck, we need to actually vote, shift the balance. But it's a little too late now...' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'l' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'gah. sorry' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'l' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i'm surprised' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'the non malay population has almost caught up with the malay population' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the other way around really, i think it used to be about balanced.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'really, hmmm, do you find that the country has been shifting to a more islamic slant?' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dude, hudud, Syariah, laws against civil court interfering with Syariah decisions, i suppose so.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'recently there was that Indian court battle, between Syariah and Civil, because the husband became Muslim.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the husband secretly converted the children, the wife found out, filed for divorce, gained custody of child from civil, husband went to Syariah, gained custody of children, snatched one of the children and ran off.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i might be wrong, but i'm hopeful that the backlash will be too strong for them to implement it' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'can you imagine telling most mats that they can't drink anymore?' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i hope so too, or i'll be absolutely screwed.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'mats?' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'malay bengs' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ahh, now that'll be a sight to see.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you know about the halal enterprise right? Darn extreme.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'and the damage to the economy from tourism' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'and i can't say i do actually' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah, the NEP was worse.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'certified to be muslim edible, none of the ingredients, or utensils can be from pork or have touched pork.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'ah, religion' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'isn't it lovely>' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a grand illusion. that it is.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry, gotta go.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'take care' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the big thing is, i don't think it qualifies as Islam anymore, it's gone to extremist and closed minds.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'it's jus pas at the moment though right' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'back then, it was open, they learned things from others.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yeah.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'not that bad then' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'UMNO is considering it.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'MCA is being hypocritical as always.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'lets see how things go' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'watching just makes me wonder how humans can evolve backwards.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'easily' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'why fox news meantioned Bundy 458 time from April 1 -24th... but only twice since.' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably largely because Jon Stewart pants Sean Hannity' T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'John Kerry had me laughing my head off today, aren't you glad you have a comedy genius running your foreign policy!' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't realise what nasty, and rather retarded piece of work Cher was' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'washed up, incoherent and nasty, mostly plastic and botox mean spirited and genuinely ugly leftist battleaxe' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's with all the american race war bollocks of late? I can't read any news without being bombarded with stories about white people being demonised for being racist' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has the smell of a political agenda about it' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same as the UK press has been doing nothing but run hit peaces on UKIP of late' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I am offended by your opinion, & since I couldn't possibly ignore you or control my emotions, I demand you never express your opinion again. --Ricky Gervais' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'm not a fan of Ricky Gervais, but he's right' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i did find the sketch he did for Comic Relief, where he faked a visit to a starving african village (which got many official complaints) both extremely funny, and delivered quite a cutting and important message' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I just happened to see that quote on twitter, I'm not really a rabid fan.' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Ricky a comedian or intolerantly rabid serious ' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DgIRjecItw' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make your own mind up' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those "starving african villages" (as seen on TV!) are usually fake and contrived' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no youtube here - impossible on dialup ' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally loved it, don't think you'd get away with it in the USA' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't realise you were in dialup, zade, though spose it's not surprising in the arse end of china' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the reason that companies and schools are restricting internet usage is that the bandwidth of a simple webpage request is usually several megabytes (and YouTube is a bandwidth hog) [most of hose megabytes are scripts and other crap] and megabytes add up into gigabytes fast -- the internet is choking with bloat' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an issue, except as a means of justifying web censorship, as can be seen from planned changes going through atm' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i occassionally peruse the internet cache to see what crap a website sends [several megabyes of script to display several thousand bytes of scanty information]' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually rubbish adverts and tracking scripts, i block them as a matter of course' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ghostscript is good for that' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and to let you know what i meant: http://www.afp.com/en/news/proposed-us-rules-leave-open-internet-fast-lanes/' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some obscure organisation sent an email: 2000 bytes of letter, with an attached 1.7m gif displaying their simple logo -- no viruses or anything -- yet ludicrous -- as though sending their logo-bloat indicated authenticity - into the delete folder' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well zade, i entirely agree with you, but what you are describing is natural creepage of technology - the abuse of modern tech out of laziness. If you oppose that, apparently it makes you a luddite, or an extremist' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems the beief that since everybody subscribes to high-bandwidth is no data-ceiling, send them megabytes of crap ' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a few years back we complained of pphysical junkmail' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it never went away, Ontuct, neither did spam phone calls, it just followed the technology' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and thanks to twatbook and 'free' mail servers such as googlensa and others, your contact details are everywhere' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I don't get as muc physical junkmail, I thinkit has a higher per piece cost.' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mine is usually restricted to credit and insurance chasing, or crap from my old uni's' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the video games, i hear that 60 GB and higher is becoming common -- and a Steam account may want to update several of those games -- so maybe half a terrabyte of updates -- more that enough to blow the 3GB a month download cap that Bell offers canadians -- but for a few dollars more, students may get an extra 100 GB a month -- but Steam updates are going to blow that fast' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find that's the whole point - pay per gb' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or buy a more expensive contract with more gb/month or some form of restricted uncapped package' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have any ideological objection to that' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure why you'd only have a 3GB data cap though, unless you have an absurdly terrible ISP' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Bell Canada decided to fleece canadian customers by offering low GB caps, even those that pay extra get not much more, (and busineess accounts are likely business pricing)' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's worse is that you're being conned because it'll be 3 stupid irrelevent 'metric' gigabytes, and not 3 proper original context-sensitive scientific gigabytes' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'incase you weren't aware, proper gigabyte = 2^30 bytes, metric gigabye is 10^9 bytes' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if i pay $70 a month for an unlimited internet cable connection -- that's a money drain -- and anybody outlaying that money is going to want to download a lot of movies and TVseries (for no extra cost). Even then the downloaded "quality" is crap compared to a Blue-Ray DVD with directors-cut etcetera (unless those are downloadable on a BlueRay blank(?))' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$70 canadian?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'neflix can stream at 4K resolution now' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'netflix*' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can, you probably won't benefit from it' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and paying $70 a month just so that Steam may update games that, (in a decent world), were supposed to be working 100% when purchased in the shop -- deliberate (malicious) internet robbery by the software companies' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'depends on if you have a 4k tv and enjoy House of Cards' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'or whatever else they're doing at 4k now' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suffice to say i won't be worrying about it, most tv is just crap' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quicker to stick your brain in a blender then take a shit on it' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, is $70 a month too high a price for internet without caps -- there may be taxes on top' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'be a pain to clean the blender afterwards though' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'that seems like a fairly slow process, actually' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I mean, I don't even keep my blender plugged in all the time' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'and my intestines aren't that full right now' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get someone else to do the defecation' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound far out if it was a fast cable connection with netflix subscription thrown in' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Also, I'm pretty sure you need a brain to be able to do the second part' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't get unlimited internet here for much under $40 and that's on regular broadband over pots' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might get "unlimited" broadband which is just heavily shaped uncapped broadband' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'price also depends a lot on bandwidth' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone, the end to net neutrality is a bad thing, is anyone likely to disagree?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'describe "heavily shapped" uncapped broadband ' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heavily shaped broadband, the speed of the traffic delivery is dependant upon the type of traffic. As a rule file sharing and file downloads are pegged to 256K' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'a lot of companies will give you "unlimited data usage", but not "unlimited data usage at the max speed you paid for"' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'I want a 1 gig pipe to my house' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or sometimes they'll put into place "fair usage policy", (which means fair by their measure)' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'japan is miles ahead of us in terms of speed and technology' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i get 100/100mbit fiber without caps and throttling for 24 euros a month' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'japan is also a dying country' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the $70 per month business pricing is unlimited business-extremely-fast downloads' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I get 5mbit (though I often get speeds more like 8mbit) unlimited for $35 US' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when japan has 10 million square kilometers to outfit an infrastructure in, then we can consider it to be an equal discussion' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd be typically looking at around $30 for an unlimited, shaped package here, or around $50 for a business broadband with no caps and limited shaping' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if a few retired customers download lots of movies and tv-series -- there is doubt whether they are able to watch all those movies and tvseries' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the agonies of watching tv nonstop' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but is ending net neutrality a good thing?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'when watching those idiots with sticks and stones and guns... i wouldn't want to give these guys a citizenship to my country..' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oh, ukraine again yes' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wassit?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russian ukrainians perchance?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if i was a powerful president, i'd go invade some place where people are smart:p' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yep' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, but your country only wants iffemenate sandal wearing hippies that send other people's kids to die in wars in countries with nothing to do with them' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(oh, and who vote for the establishment)' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'man, you just never let up on this' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'why not take all this enthusiasm to a place where it might matter... like reddit' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'fuck. english is incredibly hard language to debate with. bail' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that was one of those sandalwearers just there :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Reddit was last on: Thu Dec 22 00:13:16 2011 -- 857 days, 17 hours and 19 minutes ago' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reddit, thats one of those lame modern interweb things, isn't it?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just like youtube.' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'except way better' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'tumblr porn is better than reddit.' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'reddit comments links to porn' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks pretty lame to me' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'steered/stagemanaged democratisation of news/discussion' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reminds me of a character from a comedy show called "Dale Maily" whose strapline was "telling you what you need to know about the news. Teaching you the right way to think"' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now, if it was non-monetized and non-moderated........' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"bad troll debate excludes good intellectual debate" - Gresham's Law extrapolated' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roll out your Nazi's and let's bring out Godwin too - we can have a bbq' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to say about reddit, Zade?' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thought the idea of a heavily moderated social news forum run for profit would get your heckles up' T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is stating that the deliberate mediocrity and obscureness of scanty information by insufficiency trolls is seeking to reduce actual deep debate on the aardwolf debate channel T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'wow do i hate long emotes' T3/r7/2014-04-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'People are born gay: discuss.' T3/r7/2014-04-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Groups use sexuality and race as an means to divide people. Discuss :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Udz coughs loudly. T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'need a ricola?' T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Udz: 'no, wish the debate on gossip would move here so I can turn this channel off ' T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'oh, sorry, are we using a general channel to talk about general things' T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'should we use this as gossip then?' T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'sorry about that' T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Udz: 'some of it is debate others arent :p' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think David Sterling should pull all his investment out of his team, sack everyone and tell the NBA to go fuck himself' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what does that even mean, pull his investment out of the team' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'he will sell the team at a huge profit, and then he can tell everyone to fuck themselves' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he owns the club, according to the media' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the guy is a racist jewish billionaire democrat arsehole, the only thing that i'm annoyed about is that the media is missing the fact that this is an attempted blackmail (sorry, 'coloured'mail). Two wrongs don't make a right' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'correction, republican, not democrat' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'ehe aggred to the nba's power when he bought the team' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'it's already been debunked' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all democrats' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'no they're not.' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually they are, there are no republicans anymore' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'ok. I'm turning it off, since you don't care for a debate. Just a place to bloviate. Well, welcome to this.' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good riddance :-)' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd call someone who donates to one party but is a registered supporter of the other an establishment man' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry person' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/2011/05/data-who-needs-data-when-you-got-belief.html' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lies, damned lies, and government statistics' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pissing off feminists is up there on a list of doing public good somewhere below feeding the homeless' T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it legal for DOJ to target gun shops, porn stars and other businesses it doesn't like by pressurising banks into not doing business with them? Isn't it discrimination for banks to refuse accounts based on that sort of criteria?'