T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '40,000 new laws to take effect in 2014, only 60 from house and senate'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Paul Krugmann is on record saying he doesn't like BitCoin because it threatens the domination of the free markets by central banks'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the same debate it was also pointed out that fiat currencies such as the dollar are only backed up by men with guns'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'How many tv channels did you have as a child?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: '5'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'me too, and my niece said 5 channels... that's lame.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we had 6, but 2 were local religious stations'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3 here til i was 5 yrs old, then 4'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meanwhile, plumes of radioactive steam are pouring out of fukishima'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guns used in a mexican tourist resort shootout came from the "Fast and Furious" scheme ok'd by the Eric Holder'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the Obama regime is directly responsible for increased gun deaths in Mexico. '
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Thanks, Obama'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'well color me shocked!'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'they probably could have gotten the guns somewhere else anyway.  there isn't exactly a shortage of guns in Mexico'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, the serial numbers were recorded'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were from batches deliberately let across the border by the ATF'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'i don't think anyone was debating that factoid'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's ok for the government to give weapons to criminals in other countries, but it's not ok for law abiding people who have a consitutional right to own guns in america to have them. I see'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just needed to make sure i got that right :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'sounds about right. not like it's seriously impacting gun ownership stateside, anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than criminalising people against the constitution, such as in california and connecticut and new york'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as deliberately sabotaging the ammo industry by banning lead bullets'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'criminalising people?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'aren't you a brit? why does this bother you?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, loony, they're passing gun legislation across the states'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and scars, because if you go down, we all go down'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'you already went down as far as this argument goes.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the question is what can be done to stop more illegal gun laws, and what can be done to turn back the ones you already have?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'restricting ownership of weaponry goes against the constitutions literal definition of "right to bear arms"'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was assuming that was a given and obvious, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'a tank is a weapon - should those be available for private sale?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'they aren't actually criminalising people though, just restricting their rights.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a tank is not an arm'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'a warhead is weaponry... should that?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it certainly is'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, loony, yes, they are - in new york they already had gun registration, they're now sending letters to registered people saying "hand them in or face criminal action"'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '"small" arms are things like guns'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the bearing arms part, scars, bearing arms means carrying them, carrying them means they must be man portable'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i disagree, but regardless... should we allow machine guns? like the SAW?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree that there is wiggle room there, you could consider tanks, but the tightest interpretation would limit it to man portable'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not a weaponary expert, i don't know what the SAW is'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'like rpg's?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'a SAW is a squad automatic weapon, a type of machine gun carried by marine corps fireteams (4 man units)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'technically, you have a right to own one'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i bring this up not as a "gotcha" excersize but as a litmus test as to how far is acceptable to you'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you truly didn't want people having it, restrict it's sale'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'restricting it's sale is already against the constitution, its preventing ownership'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what i'm getting at is that nearly everyone is okay with having some level of restriction on firearms (guns), but where that line is drawn varies'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there are like more guns than people in the US already don't think stopping new sales would actually reduce gun ownership for sometime'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not actually true at all'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'restricting sale is within the scope of the constitution under the guise of regulating trade'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'preventing ownership is not'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'interstate commerce, not all trade'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, interstate commerce'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if the gun is manufactured in state A, sold in state A... thats intrastate commerce'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'feds can't directly step in on that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the constitution clearly allows some restrictions since it limits it to "arms" which does not include things like cannons and artillary.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'states can regulate that though'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i don't know why that's the prevailing thought right now'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but we're not really talking about artillary, we're talking about basic rifles'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '"arms" unqualified includes heavy arms and small arms... heavy arms, at the time, was cannon... small arms was muskets'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but whatever, it's not the point, lets just talk about small arms or firearms since that's the current topic'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'actually according to some really idiotic scotus cases even intrastate sales can affect interstate commerce and be regulated by the fed'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'fantastic :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my issue is that they're not regulating the sale, they're infringing the right to own/bear'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that isn't allowed'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the federal government tried to institude background checks during private sales and people lost their minds'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'one case even held that growing wheat on your own farm and using it for your own purposes affects interstate commerce and can be regulated by the federal government'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'basically it all depends on what you can convince 9 people appointed for life.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what type of firearm is acceptable.. pistol? rifle? shotguns? should they be single shot? semi-autoamtic? fully automatic?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'are scopes okay?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so we have an oligarchy'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have an answer for you other than checks being done locally by local sheriffs'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all of the above, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'arms is actually a pretty well defined term'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what about high explosive rounds?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'munitions are not protected by the second tecnically'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'weapon = arm'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry emm, but that's absurd'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'unless the sale of ammo is so restricted as to impact the right to keep and bear the arms'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no it isn't tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you ban ammo then you're doing just that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the amendment was designed to prevent the government from requiring the civilians be disarmed while the government remain armed...'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banning lead bullets is doing just that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you ban all ammo of course you are'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you ban depleted uranium ammo, or lead ammo for that matter you are not'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think there's a significant difference between depleted uranium and lead'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as long as there is a reasonable ammo stil available'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'who defiens reasonable?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'one that can be found in the second amendment?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'judges do all the time'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'is there a quota on allowable usage?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is actually one of their primary functions in common law'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'is it about developing a floor or a ceiling of available munition?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there are actually some fairly early cases that concluded that cannons were not protected by the second'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well cannons are not being threatened, ordinary rifles and ordinary bullets are'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'cases <> constitution, agreed?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although this was still back when we thought that the federal government needed a specific authorization in the constitution to do something so the laws were struck down on other grounds'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sadly not really scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those were better days'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the constitution means what 5 justices say it does.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying is that the US system of government has been corrupted because the justices are political appointees'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'semantics... the point is that rulings can, and have been, overturned and precedence can, and has been, changed'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'appointees whose pledges to uphold the constitution are a farce'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if the goal is to "properly" legislate small arms, then "gaming" the system and developing laws that simply get around the intent of the amendment should be disallowed'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should, but they're being allowed all over the place, especially in blue states'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so developing restrictive laws about munitions for small arms is simply gaming the system'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes so restricting ammo to the point that it impacts the ability to keep and bear arms should be disallowed, but that doesn't mean that there can't be legitimate state interest in banning some types of ammo'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as i see it, the only things they could be doing is regulating the person, not the guns/ammo. Thus some sort of unified gun training/licensing would seem appropriate'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'banning some types of ammo is the same slippery slope as banning some types of small arms'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if fully automatic is unacceptable, why is semi-automatic magazine fed weapons?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never said fully automatic was unacceptable'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i didn't either'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'was just an example'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I wouldn't have a problem with a mandatory gun safety class for public (and publically accredited) schools'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'honestly I think the children of non gun owners need gun safety as much or more than children of gun owners'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you used my plan, you would have a gun license much like you have a car license, where there are different categories (handguns/shotguns/ss-rifles), s-automatic rifles, heavy weapons, concealed carry'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could require training for each, license should be required to purchase, but not tracked'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'one might argue that that sort of liscensing would itself infringe the right to keep and bare'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'liscensing a protected right feels strange'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"well-regulated militia"'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and how likely is anything not to be tracked these days TN?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ensuring that they are sufficiently trained is well-regulated militia'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'although, you could argue that since men could be drafted (and women, too?) they should be trained in basic firearms and it's in the best interest of shortening training time by doing it.. dunno'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that doesn't track with either the history of the amendment or the precidents since tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'militay has training, states have national guard...'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's just it, if there is no compulsion to have a database then they needn't be tracked. Have a open system whereby a shops' look up consists of scanning a barcode on the license, gives them a photo and allowed catggories'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they really are essentially two seperate clauses'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the well regulated militia clause does not modify the keep and bare arms clause'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't need to, Emm, it's my idea of what would be a more appropriate way to go about gun control without fucking up the ammendment which i what they are doing right now'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a linked statement, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'read the history of how the amendment came to be tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it doesn't mean what you think it means'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and noone ever thought it did until very recently'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've read the text, i'm not interested in what other people think'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'personally I don't have a strong opinion on the existence of the second, but I know what it means'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and you think that your interpretation of the text is all that matters?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not what it meant at the time it was adopted?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is the original meaning somehow different to how it's being interpreted by me?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so if we redifine the word arms to only include steak-knives you would be okay with that?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'YES'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is what I have been saying'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'source'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'hence reading the legislative history surrounding its proposal, the langage changes that were made to it during the ratification processes'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the writings of the people who voted to adopt it'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not to mention (if you somehow don't like them) the early court interpretations of it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as I said, the idea that the well regulated milita part had any effect at all on the "shall not be infringed" part is a very recent idea'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course again when it was adopted noone thought it applied to states at all'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unchanged since 1791'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it was only the adoption of the 14th and subsequent "incorporation" by SCOTUS that made any of the bill of rights really apply to state governments at all.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since regulating the militias was a state function originally the second never really meant to speak to it at all'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it lends context'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it meant that the federal government will not infringe on the right to keep and bear arms, period. full stop.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, the interpretation i took is entirely in keeping with the case law since'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as has been pointed out, if the first amendment said, "A well educated electorate being essential to the republic, the right to speak shall not be infringed, noone would think it meant that only registred voters had protected speach rights.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from 1822 Bliss vs Commonwealth, 1856 Scott vs Sandford,  through to DC vs Heller'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone eligible to vote'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'bliss v commonwealth is a state case not a federal case so not really useful'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the question of what constitutes an arm for the purposes of the 2nd has not been finalised'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weapons in common use of the time'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but bliss v commonwealth is interpretting a STATE constitution provision not the second'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so it has no bearing on the question of what the federal constition protects'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one was modelled on the other'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as I have mentioned until after the adoption of the 14th (i.e. after the civil war) noone thought that the second or any of the others that didn't specifically mention affecting the states did so.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'be that as it may, they are worded differently and since you are trying to argue about what the wording of the one means, cases about the other really don't come into it'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1856 dred scott vs sandford was prior to the civil war'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'upholds individual rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would hardly call dred scott a victory for individual rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is widely considered to be the worst SCOTUS opinion in history'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and it preciptated the civil war'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that Slaves should have the right to bear arms?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seemed ahead of it's time'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that isn't what dred scott stands for'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you have seriously misread the case, or you are just quoting from some internet source that is spouting nonesense'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'dred scott stood for the right of slave owners to move into territories that had been declared by congress to be "free states"'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/60/393'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and of course DC v Heller is a very recent case whether it should be used to interpret the original meaning of the second is a subject of much debate, and one I thought you were on the other side of.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll have to dig into the dred scott case more. It's clearly a slavery case, the write-up on it is a statement of implication, i'll have to track down how that came about'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'keller is pretty cut and dry, and D.C are still in violation of that ruling as D.C vs Kokesh has shown'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'do that, I don't see it as having any impact on the second though'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why they planted narcotics in his house because they knew the gun charge would be thrown out on appeal'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am confused what exactly are you trying to get DC v Heller to stand for?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I thought you wanted a case to say that the states could regulate the militia'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't see it doing that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'especialyl since it doesn't even involve a state at all'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in 2008 when the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in District of Columbia v. Heller that the Second Amendment extends gun ownership rights to individuals. The decision affirmed an earlier decision by a lower appeals court and struck down handgun bans in Washington D.C. as unconstitutional.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can regulate the militia, you cannot regulate the guns'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'uhm'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how does this help you in arguing for mandatory liscensing for gun owners?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it seems to me it would argue exactly the opposite'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the license is for the person, not the gun'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like a driving license is for the driver, not the car'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and again it is about the district, not a state, which is a whole different ball of wax for a variety of reasons'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, understand that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'registration is for the car.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '1) driving is not protected by an explicit amendment'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not talking about registration'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '2) drivers liscenses were found to be premissible because you were using the public roads'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not talking about driving, just trying to get you out of thinking gun licenses have anything to do with owning a gun'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'huh?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like there to be such a system, i'd love all people to be offered the course age 16 and pass it'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you have to have a liscense to buy/own a gun how does that not have something to do with owning a gun?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as I said earlier, I think making it a mandatory class in public schools would be completely within the authority of the state (or federal if you believe they have any right to regulate education at all) government'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'making it required for gun ownership though would be a violation of the 2nd'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as far as I can see'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would be the more unconstitutional, insisting people are trained, or banning them from owning/buying?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or the second through the 14th if it is a state doing it and you accept incorporation'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its not a sliding scale'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insisting they're trained can be argued as constitutional'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its a on or off state'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course it can be argued, but not successfully'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has it been tried?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you're fucked and need to repeal all these gun bans'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at that point you have no right to restrict guns to felons or mental patients'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'felons you do'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'felons do not have the rights of citizenship'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'this is well established'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'felons can even have their right to vote removed'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, in the EU that's being removed'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and that was true at the time of the constitution being passed, it is part of the common law.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which might be a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but that doesn't mean it is unconstitional'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so this leaves everything where it was: Gun bans are unconstitutional'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as for mentally ill, it depends on whether their competency has been legally revoked I would think'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im not positive, but I think legal competency revokations predate the constitution as well.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the trouble is, such revokations are not being done via due process, they're being done arbitararily'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and I am not arguing that many of the gun laws that have been passed are unconstitional'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'all I was saying is that restricting certain kinds of ammo is not necessarily a violation of the 2nd'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could potentially ban certain types of ammo that were not common'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banning lead ammo is not covered under this proviso'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how would the second prohibit banning lead ammo'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'assuming that there is a practical alternative'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't. there is effort being pushed in the EPA to do so without a law, by placing unreasonable restrictions on lead smelters to force them out of US soil, and also pushing all brass shells from the army out of the country for recycling'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sp'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether the epa is authorized by law to regulate lead smelters is a seperate question'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt that they are'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and whether that law is constitutional is also a seperate question'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like the feds using purchasing power to disrupt the ammo supply chain'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's legalised mischief'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my opinion is that lead bullets need to go, so long as there is a viable alternative (and I think there is).'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether that will take a law or can be accomplished within existing law I don't know, or care really.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you've got the push to make schools enforce the most ridiculous rules on kids to "brainwash" (in the words of Eric Holder) kids into associating guns with evil, such as expelling kids for playing cowboys and indians, for pointing their fingers and going bang, for playing with nerf guns in their own gardens, for eating pop tarts in the shape of a gun, etc etc'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't really like public schools at all, so I really don't care what the states or the feds do with them'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you must not have children'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they do a decent job of what they were designed to do (producing easily influenced menial workers)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you'd best like them, the regime doesn't like homeschool, some states are banning homeschooling'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I do, and she will never attend a public school'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'unless both her parents are dead.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other countries have already outlawed homeschooling, such as Germany'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but we know they're Nazi's and expect that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i don't think that is fair tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they are progressive socialists, not really reactionary facists'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'he is trolling, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although for many purposes its hard to tell any difference between the two'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're corporatists disguised as socialists'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'okay thats fine too'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that still doesn't make them nazi'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're attemping via commerce what they couldn't do via war'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I have seen no evidence that germany is attempting to commit genocide with commerce'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there plan was to conquer europe, not genocide everyone'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in fact my understanding is germany and isreal are close allies now'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, they're both 'the bad guys''
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'their plan was to conquer the world and create a society where race defined social class'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now they just want the ruling corporate elite to have total control and everyone else be subjogated'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yeah so still not nazis maybe rothchildren?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not just germany or israel, that's the corporate elite worldwide'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, but they essentially steer Germany and the EU along with the USA'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'saw some woman on Max Keiser's show today talking about a "Social Dividend", essentially the "pay every adult a basic allowance"'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love the idea, it's a shame it's totally impractical in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i worry about BLS distorting labor markets worse than they already are'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im not sure they would, but I would want it tried in a very small isolated economy before we tried applying it on larger scales'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a good argument for a very basic level here in the UK because it would replace a very large and complicated raft of various welfare payments'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it wouldn't be even remotely enough to live on, it'd be like $75 a week'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might be able to squeak by on that plus a 16hr a week job'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at $75 a week it would cost as much as the entire UK welfare budget (which includes state pensions)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think BLS is far better than targetted welfare'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'okay UK has a 2.4 trillion GDP right?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, tax take of 630mil'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since we live in the real world, have to start from the real numbers'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'According to Google, 2.435t'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '(USD)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well the internet says 2.4 trillion USD'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and 63 million people'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, for ease of maths, 50mil adults'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so if you could use 10% of your GDP on BLS you could have ~3800 a year BLS'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that would be per person not per adult'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'slightly more if it was per adult'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3800 wouldn't be enough to live on'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's near enough $75 a week like i said earlier'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'acording to wikipedia UK has roughly 39% of GDP in tax revenues'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'eww no that is heritage foundation info, so use the eurostat instead 34%'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'total tax take including local taxes, i could just about imagine 39%, 34% sounds more reasonable'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'er 36%'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was about $1tn last year, roughly'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'oecd says 34%'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you can wrench reeds (i think) while raider flagged...'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so you COULD afford more than 75 per adult'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you were willing to spend the money that way'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they wouldn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roughly 1/3rd is welfare, 1/3rd healthcare, 1/3 for everything else'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'maybe cut back on military spending :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our military spending is tiny'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$70bn a year'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well 70 billion a year would still be 1k per person'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'right?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't not have defence, primary role of government'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sure'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so there are other things that would need to be cut'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have the huge overspends that the USA have'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're already overspending to the tune of some $250bn a year'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'according to wikipedia according to OECD US only has 24% (for all levels combined)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which I think is somewhat low'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could believe that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't have the overhead of national health'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically my earliest assumption was that the total welfare budget couldn't be more (initially) than it is now. that's how i came to that rough $75 a week figure'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but still with 16 trillion in GDP 24% of that would still be a huge chunk of change'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only thing you could do here is cut the NHS, and you know what happens when you try that'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the sheep start bleating'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think overall there are other things that could be done first that would make stuff better'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think there are other things you could cut'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'education?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'pensions, social security'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the assumption was that all of those things would be replaced by LHS, so no net change there'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'BHS, whatver you call it'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'frankly i think pensions for elected officials should be illegal worldwide'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'again according to internet those are the majority of the UK government spending'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd ditch the property taxes, the overrun of duties and remove the tax-free allowances on all taxes, and fix corporation tax first'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that and NHS of course'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i already told you that :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well that would account for a crapton more than 75$ per adult then'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since every single one of those categories is more than defence'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and we already agreed rerouting defense would give a 1k per person stipend roughly'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't reroute defence'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best you can do is simplify taxation and increase it, sort out the debt so you aren't burning 50bn a year in debt interest'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NHS pensions and EU contributions could be cut, would save a little more (still a pittance really though)'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and international development'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I wasn't saying reroute debt'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8dY-3hzSftCMng5TFBkaFdSb3M/edit?pli=1'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I was saying you already spend more than twice what you sepnd on defense on social security, and again on pensions, and 1.5 times on education'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so clearly if cutting defense would give a 1k per person stipend, then cutting education would give more?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'etc'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cutting education really doesn't sound like a great idea'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't know'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I honestly think we all seriously overspend on education'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'As a society or as individuals?'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take a look at the chart, it's a year out of date, but will give you an idea'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in this day and age most education could be accomplished for a tiny fraction of what we currently spend'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'both'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Because really, I think it is very hard to overspend on education as a society.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'notice that you have to play "hunt the welfare" as some welfare isn't under the welfare category'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bedtime for me'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no jhav it is incredibly easy'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Education and research build the foundations for a healthy economy.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'efficent education not the craptons of waste on outdated models that don't work'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'I think the probablem is less about over spending and more about spending in the wrong plaeces'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'seriously primary and secondary education (at least in the US) is nothing but an overpriced daycare system'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and college spending is way out of hand'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'lol emm way to overheralize'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'here's the thing... some teachers are far more able to motivate and hold the attention of their students.  Yet, they receive the same pay as teachers who have poor teaching skills.  So you have a system with some good outcomes and some bad outcomes and no way to emphasize that the good outcomes should be a greater proportion than bad outcomes'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the entire student teacher model is part of the problem'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and why not?  because teachers are in unions and they don't want a system that rewards great teachers and cuts bad teachers.  they want a system that rewards everyone and cuts nobody, b/c that's how they fulfill the mission of representing current teachers'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'students aren't going to learn by themselves'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. i've been teacher in music school for 7 years.. first 4 was good, very good students. last 3 years so many kids have attitude problems. thats internet's fault im sure.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats a misconception taught by teachers kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'children love to learn'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'I haven't heard that from any teacher's, but that comes from a simple understanding of human nature.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'teachers **'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we need systems that reward that and not try to beat it out of them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'they love to be entertained, they don't love to learn'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raident: 'nods kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raident: 'nod kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'learning is about practice and memorization and being stumped at a problem and conquering frustration.  this is not an intrinsically 'fun' process.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats just outdated thinking based on stuff you learned from the broken system'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'the idea that memorization is learning is part of the model of schools as preparation for factory jobs.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'no, it's about science.  I suggest you take some classes about how the human works and retains information and learns and remembers.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'mind**'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'memorization is part of learning.  not the only part, but an important part.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'memorization is mostly a part of early learning, and kids at that age are well built to do it'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and they love doing it'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as long as you don't turn it into punishments'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there are so many tools available to make learning fun and letting students take charge of their own learning and when you do this it works'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as opposed to the current system which at best provides menial clerks and laborers who are easily controlled by the media'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '"let students take charge of their own learning"?  I suggest you look at the % of people who sign up for a MOOC and then don't complete it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'here you have a group of self-selected interested learners and yet 80%+ do not finish the class.  Why?  Because learning is work.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the system doesn't provide anything.  people are free to pursue whatever interests them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sco'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feds order 14 million units of potassium iodide, hrm'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't notice any public health announcements suggesting people stock up....'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The auto industry is forecasting that the number of vehicles equipped with stop-start technology will grow from 8.8 million to 55.4 million worldwide by 2022.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the federally mandated AVG mpg of vehicles in the US is going up to 35.5 in 2016.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the 2015 Ford F-150 series truck will have an aluminum option that is 750 lbs lighter than the steel f150, and it will get 6 mpg more.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'great!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'add the new ford stop start to the f150, and variable valves that provide power as needed, and the new f150 series could easily get 10 mpg more than the 2014 version.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would love a gas ford 150 that managed to get 30 mpg or more.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the down side is the more mpg you get, the less maintainable they are, the more reliant on computerisation they are'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means they cost more to keep going, easier to fuck up, more sensitive to fuel mixture'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and terrible news: Deadly swine flu sweeps US - bacon prices set to soar'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news story points out that 98% of media coverage of the ice-bound ship stuck in antartica neglected to mention it was on a global warming science mission'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Winnipeg, meantime, is in the grip of a global-warming heatwave, hitting -18F yesterday'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it's unusually warm in scandinavia though'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'strange weather this winter'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit windier here than most, knock on effects of the big freeze in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hardly exceptional though'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it's unusual'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we had a cold spring, mild autumn, bumper apple harvest'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'normally it's 10 degrees colder here than now'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably within 2SD of the mean tho'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're probably getting the same weather patterns as rattled through here, which means they have the same root cause'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'milder, windier'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'no doubt'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but normally at this time of the year the weather systems that come this way come from north or north east. During spring/summer it's from your direction'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'More than half of female Marines in boot camp can't do three pullups, the minimum standard that was supposed to take effect with the new year, prompting the Marine Corps to delay the requirement, part of the process of equalizing physical standards to integrate women into combat jobs.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in good news, A US District Couurt judge ruled that Florida's welfare drug tests are unconstitutional, and i totally agree'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully SOuth Dakota will scrap theirs and stop giving conservatives a bad name'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(heh, fat chance)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'Men in the marines are expected to do twenty pullups.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: '(Women don't belong in combat roles if they can't keep up with a man.) '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, nighthaven, that it's a mockery of sexual equality, though to be fair, marines are totally pointless in the future'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'We aren't in the future, though. It's annoying that people keep pushing for women in combat roles. There are exceptions, but the majority of women couldn't haul a 200 pound male marine to safety.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Hm, you've struck a chord with me. I ask this in genuine curiosity, not rhetoric: Why isn't the induction and recruitment language for the military services gender neutral? For instance: All potential recruits must be able to complete 20 pullups, run a 7 minute mile, etc.?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: '7 mins with gear on I assume?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'That was just an example, I have no idea how fast they run. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'But I mean instead of arguing about how much of a given exercise each sex must do, why not just have the requirements be a static number--and any men or women who can do it can join, and those who can't, can't?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have you ever read the Terry Goodking Wizard's First Rule series?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Terry Goodkind, even'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Nope, not familiar with it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'Men are expected to complete three miles in thirty minutes, while women are expected to complete a mile and a half. It's the idiots who believe in total gender equality that are pushing for women in combat roles, thus setting lower standards so they can be put in. But even with these standards, they're incapable. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shame, there's a land in it called Anderin where they dumb down the army to the point of incapability for the political purposes. US sounds the same in a way'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twitter Roninleader: 'Speaking of Gender Equality, anyone hear about the gender nuetral bathrooms they are trying to putting in schools now?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twitter Roninleader: 'put*'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'That's silly, but also makes me wish I was still in school.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twitter Roninleader: 'I see a new level of horror stories on the horizon'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I think you're missing my question, Nighthaven. And Tigernuts (love the name), I get that. Why can't we assess the average necessary physical strength requirements, and base the criteria on that? So if in an average day a solider needs to be able to do X, Y, Z, have recruits demonstrate exactly that. I'm not seeing where the complication comes in (removing political correctness).'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'are not the requirements for firefighters gender neutral for instance?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I'm not sure, but if they are, then that's exactly my point.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'over here, Sweden, they are.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Assess what the job requires, extrapolate a set of criteria, apply criteria to candidates--where does sex even come into the equation?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'for firefighters. Not sure about the rest.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford rapidly nods twice at ElFeneri, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if gender equality was being interpretted correctly, Rusty, then there would be no input in the equation, but in the western world the regime are not interested in equality, they are interested in polarisation and seperation, it's to enforce an agenda and drive a wedge in as opposed to anything useful'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'They should for instance be capable of lifting and carrying a standar weight person that in unconscious'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'that is*'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's for exactly the same reason that the Duck Dynasty folks came under fire for giving his opinion on homosexuality in a magazine article'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'selective enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we used to call it "political correctness", but it's far more pervasive and nefarious than that now'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'They're already incapable of this, it's just we have dumbshits in Washington pushing for the feminist vote, and so they lower the bar for women so they can get into combat roles. I understand what you're saying, and even then, women can't meet the minimum requirements. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's needless, there are plenty of useful roles for women in the armed forces that won't require them being combat-fit'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'You think there's a conscious impetus behind such polarization, TG? Who, might I ask, do you suspect is responsible?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Please don't say Bilderberg.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the political establishment'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a method of divide/conquer'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'would seem simple enough to have a common set of requirements for everyone. And those requirements are minimal for what is needed to fill your role. Whether they are physical, psycological or intellectual doesn't matter.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if people are arguing among themselves about things that don't matter, gay/straight, black/white, man/woman, then they aren't realising that the people voted in to govern them are actually bending them over and fucking them up the arse repeatedly'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a distraction'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Hm. Interesting. While I agree with you that insidious power grabs driven by large political (and I would add corporate) entities are constantly going on behind the scenes, I don't see how the women in combat dynamic fits in. Not that I disagree, I've just never heard that and haven't given it any real consideration'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, well put it this way: what happens if you put a totally unfit person into a combat role? does that improve the effectiveness of this unit, does it stay the same, or does it threaten it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'The average male marine ranges from 170 to 200 pounds, sometimes heavier. There are already drills in place in which a marine must carry his fellow marine a mile through harsh terrain. If you're going to put both genders in the same units, women should be able to complete the same task. But my point is, it's shocking that people keep lowering the standards so women can get into these roles. They're even allowing an arm hang in the test - which is not allowed in the male test.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I understand that logic, but that seems too targetted and specific--especially when you consider that the people controlling that unit are the ones allegedly trying to reduce it's efficacy.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's unlikely that anyone in the combat theatre pushed for these changes'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be beurocrats back home'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: '^'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Now if you were saying it's just another issue to distract us (like Miley Cyrus' tits or Clinton getting a Bj or any of a million other examples) I'd buy it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Who pays the commanders? '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government, sorry, the "regime"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Beaurocrats back home. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the establishment convinced miley to show her tits?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'talk about power'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's not part of the whole "make a big issue out of gender equality" plan, then what purpose does it serve?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: '^^Lol. No. But the flurry of media attention it got.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot of these acts boils down to two possibilities: incompetence, or deliberate'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'http://screen.yahoo.com/tv-funhouse-divertor-000000415.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I can easily see it being incompetence. Inability for a beaurocracy tod design a horse. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now look at all the things that we can point ask that question about, rusty, is it even possible that there exists that much incompetence?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you claim there is, then the human race is fucked'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I agree we're fucked. But I think it's a mix of the two, flagrant incompetence as well as malice aforethought'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, and many in the media and government don't realise which is incompentence and which is nefarious'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Especially when a little incompetence on the part of the responsible can go so far in aiding the efforts of the irresponsible.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford rapidly nods twice at Tigernuts, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Ah damn I gotta run. Been fun!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the grand scheme of things, unfit women in the army isn't a big deal'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't PETA nice? They sent undressed women activists wearing only iceberg lettuces to promote veganism on days where the highest temperature was single digits of fahrenheit'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'alternative media is now twigging that NSA building a quantum computer may render all encryption redundant'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pushes forward the need for electronic communication to be moved off regime controlled infrastructure'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'twigging?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Kansas court has allowed universities to adopt a policy that "improper use of social media" is grounds for discipline up to and including termination'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Quantum-computer is science-fiction'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit late, Zade, they exist'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'no, quantum computers are science fact'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Loony Lachdanan is agreeing with that Tigernuts person again...
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have very restricted uses, but the key one is solving complicated multivariate problems, such as cracking encrpytion'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Kansas court is a government order by an abomination violating the First Ammendment'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abomination, maybe not, but certainly bad news'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it confers them jurisdiction over every online appearance'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the easiest way to avoid falling foul of such laws is to ensure all online interactions are done via a non-existant avatar, and avoid facebook entirely'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Kansas court judge is an abomination since the interpretation of "improper" was not rigorously specified '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im not sure universities are really state actors to whom the first amendment applies.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the vile corruptness is indicated by: "improper" may be anything some bigoted republican (libertarian, etc) (or religious nutter) "says" to be improper'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'for private universities especially I don't see that as being any business of the court to begin with'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not convinced them being universities is relevent'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if a private university wants to kick out anyone who even has a social media account they can'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could probably apply to any employer'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.insidehighered.com/views/2014/01/02/essay-criticizes-new-kansas-policy-use-social-media-university-employees'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the lawyer type, you read it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yeah so it is a kansas state public universities (kansas board of regents).'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'this is a government employeer free speech issue which is very complicated'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that similar then to the case of a government health worker being fired for bitching about Obamacare in the office?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'somewhat similar'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although then it is workplace and a bit more clear cut than twitter'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so, depending on the college:  "supporting gayness (sexperversion) is improper", or, "criticising gayness is improper", or "supporting out-of-favor politicians is improper" or "criticising president Obama is improper", "criticising the british monarchy is improper", or "disagreeing with Zade" is improper, ...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as i understand it, it depends on whether the comments are made in a professional capacity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would certainly hope that comments made from home, in a home context, with no relation to the university, should be protected'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"using the word niggardly in public forums is improper" -- somebody in media was fired for that'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well that is the precident case discussed in the article, but I would want to read the case at hand to see how the ruling went'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't last 5 minutes in politics, i'd be dropping all kinds of word bombs'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'media isn't government, so long as it isn't a breach of contract or discrimination against a protected status media can fire whoever they want for whatever reason they want'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps that Kansas court judge deserves to be impeached and beggared'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ABC CANNOT violate anyone's first amendment rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and neither can A&E'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is a protected status media'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'protected status is for any employer'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'race, ethnicity, religion, gender'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'age (to a certain extent)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in other words you can't fire someone for being a woman, but you can fire them for publicly expressing feminist doctrine'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, why don't they?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"unreasonable termination" is grounds for a legal suit against a corporate plaintive  (preferably with heavy punitive damages against that corprate abomination)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'huh?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'zade, the plaintiff is the person pressing the suit, the defendant is the person (or entity) alleged to have done something wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and your statement doesn't make clear whether you are asserting something is true, or should be true.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is racist, sexist, feminist, pro-gay propoganda protected, but pro-liberty, pro-gun, anti-gay propoganda tantamount to cooking babies?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what if Walmart decided to pick a name randomly from a phone book and ban them for life -- that be a vile crime by Walmart'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what do you mean tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'because liberals are not logical and dont like to be shown when they contridict themselves'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'a private employer can absolutely fire someone (in absence of a contract stating otherwise) for espousing racist, feminist, or really pretty much any other opinion.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what you see from the Obama government, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they just can't fire someone for being black, or a woman, or muslim.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'yeah i get it... to say, gay people should be able to marry... is fine but to say... gay people should never be allowed to marry, is hate speach'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, reversed the legal terms, as though the original plaintive was the corporate-terminator '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'again a private employer could fire someone for expressing either of those assertions yiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except it isn't, yiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether a public employer can or not is a complicated question'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'yeah emm, but we're not talking about private employers.... i work for the gov. and they'll fire you for 1 and not the other'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and both of those would be protected speech that the government couldn't arrest or fine you for.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'wrong'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government should have no say in who can marry'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'one is considerded "hate speach"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'show me a case where someone was arrested or fined for espousing one of those beliefs yiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I won't believe it till I see a citation to a federal court case.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'jesus christ emm.... quit adding shit to the convo that wasn't there.... not talking about arrested or fined, we're talking about fired from a federal job'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the question of whether the government, or a government actor rather, can fire a government employee for espousing those beliefs is a very complicated question.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the goal of game balance is to not have a best class. We aren't there perfectly, but it is close enough to make that a tough question.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'oop miss'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"unreasonable termination" is grounds for a legal suit against a (large) corporate-business  (preferably with heavy punitive damages against that unreasonable corporate business abomination)  [but then, "unreasonable" is debatable or perhaps "whimsical"]'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well if the question is whether something is a violation of your first amendment rights it is important to point out what really is a clear cut violation of your first amendment rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'it's not complicated. in a goverment contract there is a clause that states that you wont do that. by violating it you're in breech of contract'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't it depend upon how you are espousing your belief and why?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether such a contract violates your first amendment rights is the complicated question yiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'you have to agree not to say such things before y ou're given employment, so in order to work, you wave your right to free speach'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'exactly tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surely if it's a comment made as part of an internal discussion on your personal opinons, that one thing, whereas if you're communicating with a client in your capacity as that federal worker'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'once again, with civilians that work for the governmnt, it does not matter what kind of conversation the comment was a part of.... they complain to a supervisor about "it made me feel" and your career is over'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you mean at work discussions yiji?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'i've worked for the government for 15 years now, and i've seen many careers ended over those exact same types of issues, the gov always will win because you signed a waiver'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, yiji, that's the impression i got, which goes along with the whole incompetence/deliberate/promotion of division agenda brought up earlier'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'where i work it does not matter if the conversation was at work or not..... it could be at wal-mart, and your co=worker mentions it at work the next day, you're screwed'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds like a law suit waiting to happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or are you asserting that if you are say in a mcdonalds eating with a friend and you say marriage should be between one man and one woman, and a coworker who happens to be there overhears it you can get fired for that?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and a good justification for chopping down government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'people have sued'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's how i read it, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i would like to see a case yiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'then again i currently hate where i work so maybe i'm venting.... i went from 10 years active duty military to working for the VA health care system... the last 5 years have been shit'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'where a private conversation not at work, and not directly involving coworkers got someone fired'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'the people who sued usally win.... but they win a settelment, wich means they take 50,000 dollars to shut up'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that 50k comes from taxpayers'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well that is a completely different issue yiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there's absolutely no impotess to sort it out'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in theory they should be able to sue for thier job back'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no motivation'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'impetus?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: '^ ?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'was asking TN if that was the word he was looking for.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'oh'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'i guess my point in getting involved is this: the gov has way too much say in everything'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my vocab was poor, then i started getting old and smoking too much'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is a foreigner-mole posing as though in the UK -- the "impotess" is likely a corruption of a foreigner word'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts pats Zade on his head.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade cuts Tigernuts balls off
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'don't be a patronising dick'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twitter Roninleader: 'Zade is an imposter, posing as a human. :D'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am not really sure how much room a government employee has to complain about the overarching nature of government.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can, though'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they will'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I mean I am glad you think so, but clearly not enough to chose not to work for them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'so question please...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't sell out to the government for less than enough to retire on'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am actually seeking a government job so I also probably don't have enough room to talk.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'you and I have different definitions of goverment jobs it would seem'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'primarily I am seeking a government job to take advantage of the program to pay off my government loans'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I find it difficult to believe that it is the only job you can get, but easy to believe it is the best job you can get'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'not sure what that is suppose to mean'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(if seeking a job with corporate or government, speaking on any public forum is likely endangering to a career -- especially with those defective attitudes expressed on prior days by ...)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was arguing without someone today about low paid jobs and immigration, and pointed out globalisation has killed wages at home and has resulted in the working classes preferring welfare to work'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade 'd never hire ... -- too mindlessly parroted callous  (but that may be due to parroting the callous college education)
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(some colleges seems to be producing "children of hell" twofold worse than the corporate-pandering teachers) -- loosely paraphrased from a biblical scripture'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'colleges with curriculums that deceive the students into believing that "socialism" is "communism" -- that is a defective and despicable college course'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't they instead teach that socialism and communism are both excellent and superior to liberty and free markets?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the college teachers may attempt to say that they "never stated" that exactly as such, but the college course was presented in a form that associated "socialism" with "marxism" and then let the immqture students draw wrong conclusions.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(world-inexperienced immature students)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any form of government that denies property rights of it's citizens and forces people to obey an authoritarian social contract including stealing the majority of their earnings is worthy of ridicule and should be avoided at all costs'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'property rights stem from the government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the corporate-funded colleges and media (pandering to the extremely rich) likely prefer to discredit "socialism" is the USA by deceiving the students (and the populace) into (wrongly) equating "socialism" as a synonym of "communism"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do not, they are supposedly protected by government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that said we can still judge governments based on how good of a job they do at establishing them'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'by any useful meaning of the term property rights they absolutely stem from the government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, they do not stem from government, it's a government's job to protect them'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in the absence of an agreement among literally every person on earth property rights can only exist as they are defined and protected by an entity with a monopoly on force.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i.e. a government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Yiji: 'red is better than purple'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in other words without a government you have absolutely no property rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you still have those rights, just nothing enforcing them'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you may have things that you claim to be your property, but they only remain so as long as you can defend them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the college teachers may attempt to say that they "never" stated exactly that "socialism is communism", but the college course was presented in a form that associated "socialism" with "marxism" and then let the (world-inexperienced immature students) students draw wrong conclusions.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so when a government doesn't enforce your property rights, they are not a proper government?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the "right" implies some sort of legal consequences for others violating your "right"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and that implies a government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you have a government, that's a legal consequence, if you do not, it could be a dictat consequence, or it could be a physical consequence'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and then, later on debate, ... ?affects? a career by stating that "socialism is communism"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'physical consequences sans government cannot protect a "right"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it may be able to protect the property itself'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think they can. you steal my stuff, i shoot you. my right has been protected'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but only so long as your ability to cause physical consequences is stronger than others ability to cause you physical consequences and take your property away'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you have no recourse if someone shoots you and takes your stuff'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your ability might be provided by your community'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and THAT is a form of government'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ill grant it is a very limited form, but it is still a form.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it may not have a power monopoly, it might just be a group of families with no official structure'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in order for it to protect a right it must have some monopoly of power in at least some circumstances'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it might be better off saying that your property rights are provided by governance, not government, even if that governance is yourself and your family'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'otherwise it is just might makes right'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'people only "obey" the law only as a matter of convenience'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'philosophically, there is no moral requirement to obey laws'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the difference between a right and a law is that a law can be changed'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"morals" are a matter of convenience'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"what is right" is an opinion'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"what is right" is an opinion, and opinions are able to change whimsically'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we were talking about rights, zade, not what is right'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'philosophically, there may or may not be "no moral requirement to obey laws"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such talk is too arbitary to be of practical use'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"rights" change according to circumstances  -- (philosophically, (except for ?God?), there are no "rights"))'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whether there are any actual "rights" is debatable'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't a more important question "should there be rights"?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because "are there" is easily answered: No'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"coulda shoulda woulda"  -- nyah'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is there: No, should there be: Yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"are there rights" - maybe - debatable - state the axioms - no axoioms yet - tsk, neophyte'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what rights do you believe exist?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'very few in this day and age honestly'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Emm.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"seek ye first the kingdom of God and its justice, and maybe then perhaps ye perceive whether there be rights or what be rights or not" <-- religious ?nonsense? babbling, since whether or not there is a "God" is a conjecture'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given it was the bible, you might reasonably expect that the writer takes the existence of a God as a given'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but there does seems to be a similarity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to determine whether or not there are "rights" and in what form is on the strait and narrow path to determining whether or not there be or is a 'God" or not'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not reasonable or rational'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(extremely rational and irrational)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'God is not relevent to rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"strait and narrow path is the path and few there be that find it"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"strait and narrow is the path and few there be that find it" <-- another biblical scripture'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'zade has gone into quoting random scripture mode time to ignore him for the rest of the night'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure if Zade likes scripture or not'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps a decent philosophical department may attempt to determine whether there are any "axiomatic rights"  -- (but there is the corruption of pandering to those that pay the salaries and bonuses and pay for the speaking tours) ("those that pay the piper select the tune")'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"analysing whether or not there are rights or not" is relevant to "analysing whether or not there is a God or not"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? and is the reverse true? i would say no'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the reverse does not follow'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what i said earlier'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the concepts are similar though'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'actually, the reverse may be indirectly relevant (but not when the analysis and conclusions are flawed)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"whether or not there are rights or not" indirectly taints or affects some of the forms of "the analysis of whether or not there is a God or not"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'the rights are there, on paper. Whether god exists or not is up to you to decide.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'for yourself'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i don't believe in divine rights personally'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I have never seen god enforce any rights on earth'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether there is enforcement after you die is a metaphysical question that is rather uninteresting to me.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether it will still be uninteresting to me when I am dead might be another question, or it might be a category error.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that did (years ?decades? of) philosophical analysis of "whether there is a God or not" are more likely to see the connection -- they are already "grasping at straws"  -- perhaps the "analysis of rights"k is a straw'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well as a philosphy major I had to suffer through a certain amount of analysis of "whether there is a god or not"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'God given rights can be practically read as "innate rights" if you're an atheist'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes but then they really have very little meaning'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'unless you simply mean these are rights that society "should" grant people.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty much what they mean'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'commonly held rights over time, maybe'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is a huge difference between the debate about what rights "should" be granted, and what rights actually are granted'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a few days or weeks of "whether there is a God or not" is not as long as decades'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, what ARE granted? none'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'all sorts of rights are granted'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'believe me, a debate of "whether there is a God or not" will feel like decades even if it lasts for minutes.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rights are not granted'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how well they are established varies from society to society'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, you have no rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'then you are defining right in a non useful way tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a right is something that cannot be taken away by law'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something that always applies'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"god given rights" is likely already a presumptire step too far, (since "god" is not rigorously defined)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes that is a nonuseful definition'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my definition of a right is something that violating cause consequences for the violator'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is also true'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'except by the president if he declares us an enemy combatant or whatever'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, the president cannot undo rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there doesn't need to be perfect enforcement in order for the right to exist'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not even now can he, legally'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there just has to be consequences.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im not sure of that TN'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so when minutes turn into hours turn into days turn into weeks turn into months turn into years turn into ... a Zade nutter appears'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I mean he shouldn't be able to legally'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"rights are undone by violating rights" aka malfeasance'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're saying that the POTUS is a malfeasant?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"consequences for malfeasance?!, what consequences!"  (an overlong title of a comedy program were officials laugh and snicker at you as rights are violated) '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the truth'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why we have such shitty governments'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'here is debate channel'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'If I may ask, Wario, where did you read any of the facts you're presenting? Where do you get your information?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'European is still Western, Wario.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yes, Aqualad, there are several "ignorance channels":  curse, debate, echo, gtell (when not grouped)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yes and I have them all on'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'here's the thing about economic systems'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the economic rise of the US is incredible, and it's not an accident'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'capitalism attracts the most motivated people in the world and unleashes the potential of the individual to pursue their passion and innovate, and the markets creates icentives to reward this'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunnyy: 'what about China? '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you know how many brilliant people would emigrate to a communist society?  none.  they would get the fuck out ASAP'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunnyy: 'China's brand of communism seems to be bringing in quite a lot of economic success. plus people from capitalist countries are moving to China. to make money! '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'china is an interesting case b/c it's a hybrid system.  They have grown ultra fast from a low base.  I think it's fair to say the capitalist part of that society has greatly improved the avg quality of life, but jury is out on the long run.  a lot of economic misallocation is happening that will takes years if not decades to come back and haunt them.  stuff that would not happen in a freer market'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I dont know... it looks to me like China is communist only in name. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'In name, and in human rights violations.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'That's often a distinct marker of communism. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: '...That happened in Baathist iraq, which was capitalist.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'China is acting very capitalist and or feudalist (most of the China populace as the serfs and slaves)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Many countries have issues with it, but the tendency to commit such atrocities against one's own citizens seems to be more communist than capitalist. But I'm open to counterpoints, this is just my observation.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Human rights abuses are pretty bad in Bangladesh, and theyre ultra capitalist.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'shackleford, i think that has more to do with the rule of law and govt than the economic system'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Again, I'm not saying that capitalism DOESN'T experience it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the US had slavery too, even while we were capitalist'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'But the pattern is there nonetheless. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I think its an even split. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free enterprise" and "capitalist" are different (separate) concepts'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it's more a symptom of democracy vs. anything else'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Remember though that the slaves were not American citizens. Capitalism has a heinous track record of imperialism, each has its own evils.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'The position of a states political system on the spectrum tends to be that the more centrist it is, the less violations there are.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Important distinction, Zade. Good point. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'not just slaves... women.. civil rights... markets are easy it's the social stuff that takes longer to change'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Fair enough. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Democracy isnt so much a political system as a political aim. To say it exists in the extent it should, anywhere in the world, is honestly a lie.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it's more of a technical distinction for the most part'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Yes. But not a system.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yes, the US has an electoral college'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but the principles are there, whether the technical form is pure or not.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'The principles are a farce. A front for the technicality, which allows an elite class to control everythig.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'as long as politicians answer to the people through peaceful and honest votes, that's all you really need.  whether it's bicameral, 1 house, coalition govt or 2-party, electoral college or general election'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Not really.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'heh, thta's funny.  it's really the MOB that you have to fear in a democracy, not the "elite conspiracy"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'altho the electoral college might be changing so to speak'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'mobs are weak, i take em out in 5 seconds'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'It depends... How free is peoples thought? Free thought isnt necessarily when nobody is beating you down for disagreeing with them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so says the t9'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'The mob and the elite are both threats.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Each produces the other. Its the state of nature.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'sure it is.  you can choose what media to read, you can think critically and decide your own value system and what's important in what order.  and nobody is forcing you or threatening you no matter what you think.  that's pretty damn free thought.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'not exactly kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a strong Democracy (decently and fairly regulated) also requires a strong education-enabled middleclass'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'some people are gonna be winners because they are smarter, luckier, more passionate, and deserve it more.  that's tough shit'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'You realise that the governments of major countries unashamedly spend billions on social engineering?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'alot of the information people are exposed to is forced upon them at an early age'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and some are gonna be losers becuase they decide that mudding or playing call of duty for 10,000 hours is how they want to spend their time.  and they have the right to enjoy their time while others work hard to develop skills that will earn financial rewards in the real world.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Kojiro, thats naive.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and than plays a part in though later on in life'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Peoples thoughts are produced mainly by their environments. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Not all unsuccessful people are idiots who want to waste their time.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'of course not, and not all elite successful people worked hard or deserve it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'And even for the idiots - Why are they idiots?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if we are going to talk about systems, you are going to speak in generalities'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i never said idiot, you did.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'genetics and nurture'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'I'm not making value judgments - you are'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is there actually an argument here i'm missing out on'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if people want to live their life playing video games, go for it.  just realize that those who spent time working and getting paid deserve the fruits of their labor, which is highly likely to be far more than the gamer would realize given his choice'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"the extremely-rich do not deserve to grab anywhere-near 99% of the world's riches" (there may be exceptions, like what if an actual "God" grabbed everything - irrelevant, since "God" seems to be elsewhere currently)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yes, playing videogames is poor choice, it's far better to spend the time playing football'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you make a lot more money'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Unfortunately I think that generally, unsuccessful people were more likely to be unsuccessful from the beginning than people who end out successfully. and yes, Im judgemental. In britain we have a massive problem with people exploiting the dole. And those people dont deserve my taxes. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if you are good enough to, sure.  otherwise it's just recreation, similar to a video game'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I absolutely hate trying to be politically correct. If I think something, I will think it. That includes making judgements.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yea aza, the kid born to well-off, educated, loving parents is far better situated than a kid born to a poor single mom.  but the key is does the system all everyone to succeeed if they work hard enough?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"the rich do not really deserve what they earned" -- [unless they "earned" being condemned to hell for (say) crimes against fairness and decency] '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if you could design the world you were born into, but not know what parent(s), how would you design it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'az, if someone is doomed to be unsuccessful as you say, do you think they should be euthanised to avoid straining the system?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i dont know about that kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'No. Because the system is not a state system. Countries are but a social construct.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there are plenty of people who were raised by a poor single mother'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'You got me wrong, Red. They arent doomed. The odds are just against them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'like obama? oh wait, that was high grandma'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok, so if the odds are against them and they did what they were expected to do and were unsuccessful'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'should they be euthanized?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford shakes Idom's hand.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'That made, zero sense.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'On the global stage, the circumstances of your birth define your success rate higher than they ever have before.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'correct'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'really has to do with how the parents treat the kid '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so people who were born in shitty conditions'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what should we do with them?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you seem to suggest they deserve no help'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Azraael: Really? Even more so than being into a caste system? I'm not sure I agree with you completely. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'try being born in zimbabwe and see if you ever get to aard shackle'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'anybody that becomes rich likely became rich from the efforts of all of society  (there may be exceptions, though crime fraud and exploitation yet parasite on what wasa provided by all of society)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I agree that circumstances affect outcome, but disagree that it's more true now than ever before.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'cant really do anything redryn if a kid has shitty parents they have shitty parents ... as long as the parents arent breaking laws the kids stay with the shitty parents'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Shackle, globally. The caste system was primarily something practiced in hindu regions of Bharot.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'castes have just gotten bigger'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'look at country protectionism'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Yes, and less defined, and more numerous.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'oh.. you're from some poor thirdworld country? no we don't want you as a citizen or taking our jobs!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'My point is that in the age of information, with internet access more prevalent and accessible than ever before, an individual has more opportunity than in the overhwleming majority of historical times, to break through a birth-defined glass ceiling.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'haha bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so many people don't even have access to the internet'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'i'd agree with shack, not to say it is whre it needs to be'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what you say holds true if you're in a developed nation maybe'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Red... Thats fair though... Tok many immigrants who have no skilled labour or profession to offer are of no benefot to any state Dx'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'But in the past, there was ZERO chance. Now, though it's slim, there is some.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Shackle,'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the internet is not how the poor uneducated lift themselves up, it's how they entertain themselves'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'mostly because it was zero chance, ah you beat me to it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there is 0 chance a poor african kid is getting a computer and internet'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'What percentage of humankind has access to the internet?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the caste system ruined the Hindus'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yea forget africa, they are so backward, let's focus on figuring out the system then we can impress it on the tribes'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: '60% do not use the internet'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'right from wikipedia, very reliable resource'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Also guys... Please dont say 'Africa' Like its a country.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Redryn, that's not true at all. Google around, or I can provide you some links, to little poor African (or wherever) kids that have been able to do exactly what we're talking about because of opportunities only recently afforded.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we're about a decade or two away from worldwide internet access shackle'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'The majority of humankind can only afford less than a hundred grains of rice to eat a day. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'meanwhile the rich poor divide has worsened things considerably'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because the ruling elite of poor countries like to do business with richer countries'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I'm not saying everyone has it, you're waaayy overextending my argument. I'm simply saying that before the internet, there was absolutely zero chance of breaking out of your mold. Now, though it is limited, there have been many, many, many documented cases of it happening. The doors have opened, if only a crack.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and they like material goods'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i can accept that'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but i do not think that in general life is better'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'That's all I was ever saying.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I don't either, never claimed it was.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and the crack is also limited to very few'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn nods.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I can accept that too.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a few poor children with access to the internet is perhaps an insignificant statistic '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'But that access isnt available to people in most birth circumstances.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Funny how our elites put most of the other elites in place, hub...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'huh*'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'in a capitalist society, capital is king'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you have money and are not stupid, you can continue making money'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'hell, if you are stupid you can pay someone else to make money for you'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's pretty ridiculous'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade THWAPS Redryn for being a moron.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'have you ever seen one of those super rich bosses who listen to everything their secretary tells them?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'If God is real, then I want true theocracy. Because if God is real, it knows us best, and therefore its system is the best for us. human nature prevents human beings from protecting society from its own dark sides. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there are business men out there whose businesses depend entirely on the intelligence of their subordinates'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Red noooooo'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'What about an intelligent person caught in hyoperinflation?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'huh?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'My bad... hyperinflation'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm saying the rich get richer'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Not if they disobey the elite.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Disobey and you fall.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the rich generally are the elite'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and are good buddies with em'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'an intellegent person caught in hyper-inflation should attempt to be self sufficient/barter'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Red, there are always people above you.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Redryn, were you supplying that defective advice to the various governments ruined by the financial meltdown: "You governments .. plenty of money .. smart .. not stupid .. hire somebody to manage the money" '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Yes, Emm.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'failing that leave the country'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Lol. No need to go ad hominem pls'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm not sure i understand your point az'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who went ad hominem?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'are you saying the rich don't get richer because there's someone richer?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Yeah, what are you talking about?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Nationalisation is the way... And government for the people but... not necessarily by them >.>'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'no. Not at all.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how about this, we have all lawmakers have fixed term limits and at the end of their terms their place in the social order for the next 10 years is determined randomly'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Im saying that the rich fall when they go too hard against the system. There are always people higher who can push you back down. Squash you under their boot, so to speak.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'maybe they will be super rich, maybe they will be on foodstamps'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so accepting my premise, that means that in a capitalist world there is a growing rich-poor divide'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's always someone at the top az'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there are not infinite richer people'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'hard to say redryn since we have never had a capitalist country much less a capitalist world'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what country are you in emm?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'US, but I mean that literally there has never been a true capitalism anywhere in the world anywhere in history'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Yes, Red. But a group of two people the same wealth as you are, together, richer.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'And therefore more powerful.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok, i'm not going into various definitions of true capitalist, social capitalist, whatnot capitalist'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm talking generally the system where it's capital oriented'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well there is no avoiding that really'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'history has proven that the alternatives simply do not work.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok, at the top there is a network of rich people who all know each other and are buddies'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am not sure it works like that'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the koch brothers and the gates probably aren't buddies'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Not necessarily buddies. But the top are so few that you can bet your ass they know who each other are.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the fact is that their interests are often aligned'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the rich will not do anything to disrupt a system where the rich are in power'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Yes. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'with the exception of the banking families (who tend to keep pretty private) mostly everyone knows who the richest people are.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'My point exactly.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's basically self perpetuating'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and it permeates the entire system, from the private to public sector'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Emm is obviously not "cogis mentis" with "and at the end of their terms their place in the social order for the next 10 years is determined randomly" '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Except. What is money? A representative of energy. But its not real. Money was only real when it was resource backed.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'a representation of energy?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'therefore the whole social system is based on belief.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Well yeah. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is a commitment'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no it's not a commitment'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'It is.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Emm, put that on your resume -- you likely won't get hired in any important position'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'a commitment to what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Bank notes in the uk read 'Promise to pay''
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'you could say money is "backed" by things'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'promise to pay exactly what the money is?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im sure anyone who knows my true political views would not let me anywhere near any position of importances'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'technically notes are a promise to pay in coin.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's a commitment to nothing as you have just said money has no worth :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Exactly Red!!!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'money has worth since it can buy hard assets'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well presumably you don't keep a lot of it in liquid'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea... so money is not a commitment :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'except a technical one maybe'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as long as people keep accepting it it is'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'It was. Its a commitment of zero value.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'as long as people agree something has worth... it kind of does'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the real commitment is that the fed won't let it get out of control'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Banks survive by perpetuating a belief in a value of pieces of actually worthless paper.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'won't allow hyperinflation to happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and if you are willing to work for money obviously certain unit of money is worth a unit of your time'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'We need a gold backed currency again :/'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so that people keep accepting it as a medium for exchange'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and That is what money essentially is'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'a medium of exchange'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Except it isnt fixed. The premise is that money corresponds to time, corresponds to energy. But when it isnt resource backed...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yep emm like a middle man in a barter transaction'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Azraael nodnods
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok what's the gold worth.  It's just useless metal.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you can have money that isn't backed by resource and still have a stable medium of exchange'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'makes nice looking watches'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no gold has many intrsincly valuable properties'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Gold is certainly not useless.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'used in electronics, and jewelery'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'unused in electronics'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I assure you it is used in electronics'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'umm used'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Of course it isnt... which is why a gold backed currency would be great...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'more valueable than aluminum?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'much'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'because it is rarer'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'used in nano tech too i belive'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'scarcity is a huge factor in value.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'the ulitity value of gold is something like 1/100 it's going price'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the utility value of gold is why it has such a high going price'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you can't tell me that the value of gold is based on what people will pay to put it in electronics.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'realize that utility includes people wanting it because it is shiny'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'going to have to completely disagree on that point Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Nah, thats scarcity.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'actually the price affects the scarcity too'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Why are gems so pricey? Scarcity.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the value of gold is because of scarcity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if the price goes high enough more extraction operations become valuable'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes teh value of EVERYTHING is b ecause of its scarcity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the problem with fiat currencies is that they are not scarce'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they can be printed'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'That implies that the amount of gold in the earth tends towards infinity but is hard to get at.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'cryto currenty'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"currency" is also backed by "real estate" and by "natural resources" and by "the people"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like bit coin'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'is that what destroyed my binder full of Ken Griffey Jr rookie cards? that was supposed to be my retirement'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not towards infinity, just higher than we will ever achieve'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the amount of gold in the universe tends towards infinity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'just like any scarce resource that has varied degrees of dificult to obtain'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you could go fly to another planet and extract it there!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Relative to our access, though.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Reeedd.... *facepalms*'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im not sure that has been proven redryn, but it is a reasonable assumption i guess.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bitcoin is not securely regulated yet -- what is the *collateral* behind bitcoin'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if gold were worth a billion man hours of labor per ounce people would fly to asteroids to find it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'per ounce?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Of course we can do that but it will never be worth it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'new products are constantly being created and their creation implies a new demand for money'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i would assume you would ship back a few hundred kg'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Emm is clueless'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'You know what the world needs?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'just showing the argument at it's extreme'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Emm: That's called reductio ad absurdem, and it's a logical fallacy.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm not making an argument really :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"clueless" to use a ludicrous example'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the point about money is understood'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you guys are just repeating essentially what everyone agrees with'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'mathematicians use reductio all the time to prove statements true'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'A highly contagious virus that targets the human genome specifically that shuts down reproduction and guarantees death in the near future'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'it's certainly not a logical fallacy'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'hence my argument redryn ... you work for money you agree it has worth :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'its worth is that collectively everyone agrees it has worth'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'social contract maybe'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Endtime: I'll let you and google sort that out, reminding you first that mathematics and formal logic are different fields. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the reason behind why people agree it has worth is linked to scarcity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'mathematics is a subset of formal logic with an extra premise or two thrown in'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Then what about quantitative easing?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'usually the premise of zero'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'what he said'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Just do some research, beyond what you already think you know. Formal logic, reductio ad absurdem. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I'll wait.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '<==specialized in logic as an undergrad in philosopy'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Then you should really know this.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Want a few links?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"pride goes before a fail"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the other day there was someone with a masters in statistics telling us that deal or no deal worked like the monty hall problem'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am familiar with reductio ad absurdem'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Currency is based upon information opacity.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what does that have to do with the relationship between math and logic?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what does that mean azraael?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'other than buzzwords I mean'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'saying you have an undergrad degree is an appeal to authority and is not logically sound :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Someone else brought up math, I was saying that the argument that we would use technology that we don't currently possess to obtain something, as a way to show it's value, falls under the logical fallacy of reductio ad absurdem. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I mean that its all based upon the people who make and manage it at the highest level keep information from the masses. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Someone say reductio ad absurdem was not a logical fallacy, I was saying it was. If you think it isn't, you don't know a damn thing about logic. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'reductio ad absurdem is not a fallacy shackleford'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford sighs.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(state when does "reductio ad absurdem" fail to prove something, or rather upon what assumption does "reductio ad absurdem" depend)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'QE3 will destroy the worth of currency.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'are you speaking of intuitionist philosophy? because what I'm reading suggests that reductio is valid argument in formal logic but not in philosophies that deny the law of the excluded middle'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it depends on the statement you seek to refute with a reducto ad absurdem'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'in mathematical terms, usually statements are absolute'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Aaaand now I lose my bearings'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so any contradiction means they are wrong'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'a false reductio ad absurdum (like a strawman argument) is a fallacy'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Dayuuum. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'in normal arguments usually you don't make absolute statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"reductio ad absurdem" usually depends on the assumption of a valid "excluded middle" -- when the assumption is invalid, "reductio ad absurdem" is likely to fail'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but reductio ad absurdum is a legitimate logical method'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Correct, Emm. That's exactly what the Asteroid argument was. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I never brought up mathematics, that was Endtime I believe.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'okay wtf'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Are you guys arguing semantics?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'welcome to the internet az'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'keep up'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Az, no.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no we are arguing logic'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'semantics is entirely different'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we are arguing whatever we think someone is wrong about'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Azraael facedesks.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'try facecar'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and by saying a person who does not know of one part of logic, does not know anything about logic is not a valid or sound argument since logic has more than one premise and conclusion'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'quick quick someone on the internet is wrong!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'flawed premise that the technology exist to mind gold off an asteroid (in an economical enough way to profit off gold).'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'FIX IT!
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i have no idea what the original statement/rebuttal was actually'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is not the problem'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'because as I said in my argument if gold were worth a billion man hours of labor per oz we would do it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'The argument is nonsense.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'can someone find it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the technology either exists, or could be easily made to exist'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'We don't have the technology, you have nothing to base that on. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Werent we talking about social justice? I feel like the argument now has fallen to the maintenance of egos.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'why don't we have the technology'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we can build ships that can go to the asteroid belt'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we can launch stuff to orbit'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea if gold was worth enough we would go mine asteroids'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Emm...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's wrong with that statement?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if it were worth enough we could launch enough stuff to orbit to build a big enough ship to go get it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I took discrete math and a phi logic class'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'You cant just... Fly into space magically...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who said we could?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we have launch vehicles'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Not you.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who is talking about ME?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm confused'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Im making a point <<'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and I can absolutely fly into space if I have the money to spend'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no you are not'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's the argument against mining asteroids'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Erm'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i don't know what you are doing but you aren't making a point'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I mean to say that whether we have the tech or not'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'robotic, or even manned mining of asteroids does not require any new technology'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'we can talk about you if you like emm :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it does require economics being different than they are currently'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Modification of current tech is still new tech, it comes with a whole assortment of new, unforseen problems, it takes unquantifiable amounts of time, this is all hypothetical.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but trust me if they were valuable enough we would go get them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'It will never be feasible to go and fly into space and go mine. We can do it now. We dont. Why? If it was lucrative business, it would be.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Way too hypothetical to base a logical argument on. I've grown tired of this, it's just going in circles.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the point is that currently it's not lucrative enough'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'would make more sense to Terra form deserts than mine asteroids me thinks'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'IF it was lucrative then you would'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's all'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'it will never be worth it. Aye, its too hypothetical.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you don't know that heh'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'spaceflight is getting cheaper'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'http://www.planetaryresources.com/asteroids/composition/'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you would also mine all sorts of other minerals'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'like rich earths'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'those are getting more valuable'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Even when its cheaper, it will be better to planet mine.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Hey! A link! First semi-credible thing I've seen on this channel all evening.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'I don't know how you can assert it will NEVER be lucrative. what if the cost of launching a pound of materiel into space was cut by a factor of 100?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not that credible'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there will come a point in time where earth has almost everything mined out'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i think it is pretty pie in the sky at this point'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Hence, "semi."'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but only because of economics not tech'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Okay, my bad. It could be lucrative someday.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there will never be a point where earth is "mined out"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is also true elchanan'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: ''mining out' earth means blowing it uo.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats true for oil and natural gas as well'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'But Emm, surely you see how those two things are interrelated?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Economics and tech, I mean.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes, economics drive technology advances'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and technology advances can potentially dramatically alter economic situations'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Technology isnt limitless.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'inexorable, even, when talking about cost projections of imaginary tech.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what does that mean in real terms az?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it sounds like a meaningless platitutde'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'I mean that not everything can be done as fast or as much as we want it to.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'debate degenerated into trite hackneyed cliches'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there are things that cannot be accomplished by technology, (probably but we probably don't know much about them)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that I will grant'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but I don't think it is tech that drives that nearly as much as economics'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and of course legal and political structures'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'But the tech industry has been one of the biggest boons to the economy in decades.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'all these are human constructs. Reality is what would remain even if no human was alive to see it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'trite hackneyed cliches  or  near-meaningless unsubstantiated defective platitudes'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Yeah this has gotten old. Have fun sucking on the bones, guys.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is a metaphysical assertion az, and one that means nothing in this argument'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I find myself agreeing with zade, which is always a dangerous thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'What if we hit a limit with how fast we can travel in space?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Oh boy.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there certainly is a limit to that'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'C, at very best. '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'probably more like .2c'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford nods.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Still, unlikely.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but that has very little bearing on the question of how quickly we can mine asteroids'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rusty Shackleford laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since they aren't really that far away (in fact some of them are quite close)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and we can always build MORE things to go get them'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and much of the materials to build more could be gotten from more asteroids'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'But why would you need to do that when theres a whole planet of resources here? o.o'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and we might start mining planets, or even blowing up planets so we can mine the asteroids created'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you wouldn't unless the resources here were more expensive to get to than the resources there'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Thanks for this btw, somehow I feel like I understand things I didnt before x.x'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '(which could easily happen especially with government regulations making things more expensive)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'That seems ridiculous to me. Less expensive to go get more thsn to recycle what we already used?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but eventually the resources here will be more expensive than getting them from space, at least for some resources'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'presumably the stuff we already have would be already being used in more efficient ways'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'the reason for mining asteroids is that shipping raw materials into space is very, very expensive. we will need the materials if we ever start doing large-scale construction in space. it is not a replacement for terrestrial mining.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'some recycling would come long before some mining and certainly before extraplanetary mining'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'That, Lachdanan, I can accept'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it can be lach'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not initially'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but eventually'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'Thats like... increasing the mass of earth'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the case for space based solar power satellites depends on that very fact'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Azraael: 'in a way.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we can build them now easily with existeing tech'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but its too expensive it would work out to several dollars per kilowatt hour'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps google the number of *tons* of space debris being added to the planet earth each day from space duat and micrometeorites and other space debris'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but eventually we could make most of the structures from materials from Near Earth Asteroids, and from Lunar Regolith (both of which could concievably be cheaper to get to orbit than materials from earth)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and in theory this could drive the price of electricity from sbsp even with losses for microwave relay below that of traditional sources'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-04/nasa-wants-flower-inspired-satellite-array-beaming-solar-power-down-earth'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the amount of energy to spacetravel to a space-mining-asteroid may be comparable to using that energy to extract those minerals from (say) seawater'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it might be'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but what does that matter?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course the more you extract from seawater the more expensive it becomes in the future'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since the concentrations will decrease'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'btw, each spacerocket into space wreaks havoc with the upper atmosphere and deposits more debris spinning around the planet'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is a pretty vague statement zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my understanding is that it is entirely possible to have space launch vehicles that do not contribute to orbital clutter (afiak space-x is doing exactly that)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and as far as "wreaking havoc" with the upper atmosphere it is no more than stratospheric jets, and we certainly do a lot more of that than we do launches'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and neither of these are significant contributors to the real issues in the upper atmosphere (excessive chlrorine being the biggest of these)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although I got a b- in my atmospheric chemistry class i just finished so maybe im not the best source for information on the upper atmosphere.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'also I was not trying to somehow prove that we will go into space for gold eventually'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I was only explaining how value can affect scarcity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'even though it is primarily determined by scarcity'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade 's understanding was that scientists are not supposed to use the Antarctica as a garbage dumping ground, that scientists remove from Antarctica all the garbage they produced   (dream on - maybe when the iceshelf melts, the garbage shall drift off and or sink)
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that was a heck of a non-sequitar zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or at least it seemed so to me'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I know very little about the practices of scientists in antarctica visavi garbage'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(there was sarcasm there, not a non sequitur)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what did it have to do with what we were discussing?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '(non-sequitur means not sequential, or not following from the earlier discussion).'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'less space debris from launched rockets .. less garbage from Scientists in the Antarctica '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'yes, those points both have the word "less" in them'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'uhm okay still not seeing the connection'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Emm nods at Endtime.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(likely not going to happen, unless ...)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'unless you start making sense?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'i read about someone working on satellites to help clear atmospheric clutter. it might take a bit of convincing to be allowed though, considering the potential military applications of such a device.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Emm is feigning obtuse'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes china has one in development but there has been a big whoha about it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how do you spell who ha?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'huha?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'a big international ruckus?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'hoo-ha?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'anyway you get the idea'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Denise Richards on a tvseries used the word "hoo-ha" to describe her "hoo-ha"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that wasn't really what I was going for zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'also i don't know who that is'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Denise Richards, costar of "Space Troopers" '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'never saw it'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Denise Richards, former wife of Charlie Sheen'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i know who he is, he had some sort of drug problem right?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'starship troopers...'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and his father is the best president we have never had'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'OOH starship troopers I have seen'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'she's the pilot'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'gotcha'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"West Wing" - Martin Sheen'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes zade that is what I was refering to'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Aaron Sorkin is a god among men.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Emm, you out of the closet, you seem to be using homosexual-talk with  "(some nocount) is a *** among men" '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'er, what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Endtime shakes his head.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'uhm you know I am a girl right?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or were you too drunk the other night when you realized that?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'with the usual Internet air quotes, of course :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sure if you want them'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its no skin off of my nose either way'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'five year old, right - using your parent's computer,'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'for that matter its no skin off my nose if you want to think i am homo or hetero sexual'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'actually I have a 2 year old daughter'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'First thing I've agreed with you about all night, I think!'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well 2 years 4 months actually (tomorrow)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some phrases heterosexuals never use, unless they want to go undercover as homosexuals and or annoy the religious community'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but use that phrase on your job interview'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'uhm which phrase god among men?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'must be an age thing when I was young all the girls said that about guys they liked'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'latent lesbians ?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'don't you wish'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I've heard plenty of straight guys use that expression. Where are you from, Zade?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'can i swear on this channel? cuz i really want to right now'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Elchanan is slapping Endtime with his cock! You see mushroom-shaped bruises forming!
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'does that answer you question'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Not mine though.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'yes :) thanks'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'now who needs to come out of the closet?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if anybody uses that expression, the auto-assumpion is that they are homosexual (even if they profess to be heterosexual)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I'm not sure it counts as coming out when it's on an anonymous online videogame.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Based on what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'zade's own twisted mind'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'males wearing an earring -- does not matter what ear - likely homosexual '
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'hmm when I was young men wearing earrings in one ear was ridiculously common'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'you have it all figured out huh?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Ohh, I'm starting to see it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'absolutely! It is a well known fact that pirates were all homosexual.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'personally I don't like piercings of any sort on men or women.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'you ever see women on pirate ships?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Watch, he's going to say it's okay if they've sailed the seven seas or something.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and do all yall really give a fuck if someone is gay or something'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what endtime that zade is drunk and trolling again?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'Zade, can we get a ruling on boxerbriefs? gay or not gay?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so until recently you didn't see women on modern warships. Are you claiming that because of that navy men are all homosexual?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Endtime rapidly nods twice at Emm, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'all those months at sea -- perhaps those pirates that dress with earrings are the designated "prostitutes"'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i think statistics indicate that homosexuality is less prevelant in the US Navy than in any other branch of the US Armed Forces.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you are a sick puppy, Zade.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'That one wasn't very good :-/'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yes, Emm, that is the Navy cover story'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'as the Samurai proved, homosexuality is has little effect one's ability to be a fierce warrior.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the roman centurions too'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and the Greek :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Janissaries'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my understanding is that roman centurions were almost exclusively homosexual'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Kabuki girls'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Zade.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there needs to be a ranking for most people with you on their ignore list.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think zade might win it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'There have been many, far, far worse.'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but have they lasted as long as zade?'
T3/r7/2014-01-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Though to be fair, I just had the pleasure of meeting Zade tonight.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'he has his good moments and his bad'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think he is drunk tonight tbh'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I'll take your word on the former.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'I'm struggling for the name, but there was this screaming idiot who used to terrorize GC--seemingly nonstop, at least 20 hours per day--but I think he's gone.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'will you really jhav?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'somehow I don't think you believe me'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats amazing'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rusty Shackleford: 'Hm?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bank of America actively employ people to troll social networking sites'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's long been assumed that the government does, a little surprised banks do it too, though perhaps I shouldn't be'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"troll" as in "seek to ruin" or "troll" as in "provide comedy"'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would assume to push an agenda, by promoting it, or by ridiculing opposition '
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wink: 'probably means astroturfing'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Like what Yuna does :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'did or does Yuna do anything'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much these days'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she came out screaming like a banshee when abortion was being talked about to push a murdering, authoritarian agenda, but that's all i've seen of her of late'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so, Tigernuts, did you apply to Bank Of America for a job (say) to pa-troll the Aardwolf Debate channel'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no. There is no money backing up the agenda that I push, that is quite obvious'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'was Yuna for or against abortions  (unsure what Tigernuts meant by a "murdering agenda")'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially she was for abortions at any cost and suggested taxpayers should fund it all'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the standard vacant fake-liberal position'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Yuna is on track at lowering the excess overpopulation of planet earth :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not her justification, and neither would it have that effect'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'aborted babies are cheaper than born babies to maintain'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that might be so, but free legal abortion doesn't reduce overall birth rates or population'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so taxpayers are wise to fund contraceptives and abortions'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would prefer the solution of having charities provide free contraceptives and abortions, then you're not forcing people to pay for them who are ideologically opposed'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'every abortion assists in reducing the birth-rate -- so abortions do lower the overall birth-rates'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really proven'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'aborted babies are usually unwanted babies'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in terms of this country, controlling immigration would reduce population. Worldwide, alleviating poverty while liberating women and providing them education reduces birthrates far more than any kind of abortion'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'arithmetically: proven! '
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arithmetically true, statistically insignificant'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no! no! no.  alleviating poverty does not reduce the birth rate.  More food, more babies. classic proof: the overpopulation of India'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'india is the proof that it does'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Indiu is an example that increasing the food supply encouraged a massive population explosion in Indaa'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'food + healthcare, yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'increased food+healthacre --> alleviating poverty --> massive population explosion'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the teaching and liberation that's important, but those won't work without the other'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your alternative is to starve india, china, and africa into population reduction?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'India is an educated country nation -- so bollocks to that crap theory that "teaching and liberation" reduces overpopulation'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'india is not'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in provinces of india where investment has been made into educating girls and pulling them out of poverty, birth rates have halves'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'halved*'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'human civilisation likely started in India  (but for some reason the Hindus were ruined)'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from 4.something to 2.4'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a birth rate of 2-2.2 is what you want in order to reduce population long term'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you are likely pulling statistics from where the sun don't shine'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, zade, just having to recall them off the cuff'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'did you know that when the Roman Catholic Church educates girls to become nuns, the birthrate decreases among those girls - amazing fact'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'may be almost similar to what is happening in India in an "untouchable" version -- (educate India girls to become ostracised)'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reinforces a well known effect that when you pull girls out of poverty, teach them, and give them empowerment, they choose not to have loads of kids'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not ostracised so much as not being forced into having loads of kids by odious men'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so explain the overpopulation of the educated jewish and irish rabbits'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rabbits?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't know rabbits could be jewish'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'explain the overpopulation of the educated jewish and irish "rabbits" '
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'israel's birthrate is only slightly above world average'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and is falling)'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, slightly above -- likely because they were not able to steal enough land from the arabs for extra housing'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would certainly agree that Israel is a hypocritical, if not terrorist state'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also, the handouts from the USA only go so far'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'israel is 2.65 according to the cia world factbook'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Majic, down from 2.79 4 years previous'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's lower than it's neighbours'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK's has been rising thanks to immigrants'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is at about the right level'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but what is the deathrate of the Israeli neighbours'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and nuts is correct, btw. Educating women and giving them something to do other than pop out babies, along with improved child welfare (oddly, at first), and improving care of the elderly, decreases birth rate in the long term'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA's birth rate is about spot on, unfortunately it is not equally spread amongst it's racial demographics - hispanics are fast outbreeding the whites and blacks'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which leads to it's own set of issues'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'in general, when people have a fair idea that their first 2-3 kids are going to live, they tend not to have 11. There are, of course, exceptions'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wink: 'its because when ppl know welfare is good enough that their only 2 kids will survive to see them through old age, they dont need to have more babies, because they are expensive. It's not odd.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hispanics are waging a war of genocide by seeking to overbreed out nonhispanics'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then if you can use your welfare/tax system to discourage the 11, then those who have >2 are balanced by those who have 0 or 1'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that's why I said 'odd, at first', wink'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Wink nods.
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you have a welfare system such as the UK, then the poor use having children as a means of getting an income, so you find the good of education undermined'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, furthermore, when people don't feel they can get ahead by working hard and getting a decent job'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and what are demographics of these career welfare mothers'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the wider problem, majic'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is also an "ethnic" impetus'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and a "religion" impetus'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.ifs.org.uk/wps/wp0809.pdf'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'study showed positive fertility effect for women with increased welfare'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'alleviate poverty --> more babies'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'depends on how you alleviate it'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if you alleviate it by handing out food, it does tend to result in that'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and back full circle to [03 Jan 07:00:27] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'in terms of this country, controlling immigration would reduce population. Worldwide, alleviating poverty while liberating women and providing them education reduces birthrates far more than any kind of abortion''
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'providing the education is the key component of that '
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yes, that's why it matters HOW you do it'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK welfare is not about stopping people starving like Africa, and they have an education'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if you do JUST the 'here's food', it doesn't do a damn thing other than make the food problem worse'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if you do it by helping people get educated and set up their own businesses, especially women, it does reduce the rate.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'plenty of education in the UK -- (do not pass go, do not collect $200) '
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs. Zade, don't compare welfare for India with welfare for UK. Single mother with 3 kids will have a welfare income equivalent to a single employed man earning $40,000'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"education" is not going to decrease birthrates in India'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'alone? no'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"education" is not going to decrease birthrates in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, but the link between education and lower birth rates is fairly well esablished'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'has already happened, india is dropping towards 2.1'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unlike my typing skills'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, razkin, zade ignores that we've made that clear time and again'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'already down to 2.55'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no no no -- the link is likely a coincidence'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh, I didn't realize we were combating willful ignorance'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'It is assuredly not a coincidence. This is an active topic of research.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'll stay out of it, then'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts pats Zade on his head.
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what causes the drop, then?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/97facts/edu2birt.htm'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'guess I couldn't stay out of it >.<'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade plays baseball with Tigernut's head
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'https://www.earth-policy.org/data_highlights/2011/highlights13'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'even initially, staying in school longer tends to postpone the age of first birth, which in and of itself is going to reduce the fertility rate.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there's a whole bunch of others, but still, the evidence is pretty abundant.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not just education, either, but business/employment opportunities other than 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen''
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in some controversial topics, "research" don't mean frig-all -- look at the "research" on global warming'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'true, but you can't dismiss all research based on that line of thought'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's also why there's a peer review process'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right, an armchair enthusiast who has already made up his mind is going to be able to figure out things far better than trained scientists'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the next big issue you need to tackle alongside this is the raping of these developing countries by the developed, from the slave labour of China to the buying up of resources in Africa'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic rolls her eyes, disgusted.
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I would never take something as a fact based on one study'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't remember seeing evidence or alternative explanations for the population thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor do i see people claiming, with any kind of sense, that an ever-increasing population isn't a problem'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd also say that the global warming debate is vastly different from this one'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, raz'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is a lot of fooling around with statistics -- the fact remains that the world population is explosding, and "education" is not going to halt the explosion'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'except it is doing so in countries around the world'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's already slowing it, zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the rate in many countries has been dropping precipitously'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'statistics can be misused, but they can also be powerful tools for identifying trends'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'current trends showing world population peaking by about 2050'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'too little, too late'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'gain, that's why you use peer reviewed, credible resources to make your decisions'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'again, that is'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is it too late? what will be the impact?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also hose countries that slow their birthrae but then permit immigration, likely find that the immigrants overbreed'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'o.O'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've never read that'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those illegal hispanics in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though in countries like the U.S., the major contributor to population grow is immigration'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that happened in the USA and the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, immigrants to western countries do tend to have more children than the native population.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is argued that it's a benefit'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I've never read anything that implied that it was because of the amount of births, but simply the amount if movement'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it prevents a demographic schism'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'razkin, hispanic birth rate in the us is indeed higher although again dropping'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of issues with population density - UK is vastly overpopulated for instance'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'look at the genocide that the UK foisted on the aboriginals of Fiji ny letting the population of India into Fiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt, wasn't me though'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the original Fijians do Not view the overbreeding immigrants as a "benefit"'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, was looking stuff up'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm sure it is, I'm just not sure that it's greater than the influx of immigrants'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying I've never read anything that claimed that it was'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and those from immigrants from India  were likely "educated" yet they overbred and therby threaten the original Fijians wih genocide'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'plus, I've never read any studies about if second and third generations (who have access to education) change that trend, which would add support to the argument'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'since the Indians appear to have arrived in Fiji as indentured servants, I would consider that highly unlikely'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if population continues to rise unsustainably, there will be wars over resources. Fortunately this is irrelevent because of the greedy corporatists/world governmentists who are collapsing economies to get control, they'll be starting wars over resources for financial gain and control of power long before it breaks out on grounds of necessity'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'wait, are you comparing things from almost a hundred years ago to today?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'apparently so'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, I'm all for looking to history for answers, but you also have to adjust for the realities of today'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'increased immigration is never a benefit'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're starting to see wara drums in Asia because China will need some diversion to remain in control of their people who are now becoming more affluent'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would say increased immigration RARELY is a benefit'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I'm sure we could come up with some situations'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in fact, Japan may be one of those upcoming situations where immigration might benifit them'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'furthermore, the percentage of fijians has been rising and the percentage of indians dropping since the 1960s'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'man, can't type or spell today, yeash'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'according to fijian census data, indians peaked at 50.5% in 1966 and have been gradually dropping as a percentage to 37.5% in 2007'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the indigenous population comprised 42.4% in 1966 and has risen to 56.8% in 2007'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the Fijians retaliated with increased breeding - but Fiji islands are only so big -- and eventually the overpopulation difficulties of India may strike Fiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'in absolute numbers, the fijian population has increased from 200k in 1966 to 475k in 2007, whereas the indian population has increased from 240k to 314k'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'so as usual, zade is rather ludicrously incorrect. I've never figured out if he actually believes what he's saying.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and somewhere later than the 1960s, i read a different story, that the Fijians were complaining that the India immigrants were overbreeding to half the population of the Fiji Islands - so the genocide damage by the Indian immigrants is extensive in Fiji'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in terms of economic development, how do we go about preventing the looting of these developing countries, or the abuse of their labour such as happened in China during the 90s and 00s?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I don't care what "story", you read, the actual census data shows differently'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've always argued that the careful and proportionate use of protectionist policies on imports can help prevent such abuse while assisting our own industry'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess it's a race to the bottom condition'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Majic, your census figures are likely corrupted statistics'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'o.O'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'although it doesn't surprise me that you'd rather believe an op-ed piece than the census. Most people are too blinded by their own prejudice to read anything that disagrees with their preconceived notions. If it disagrees with them, it must be a lie.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'See?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's easy to win arguments when you can simply dismiss all evidence'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what, you have facts!? No, those are just misinformation by the government!!!'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'You sound like a young-earth creationist attempting to argue evolution is a lie by simply dismissing all evidence from science.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what , you have statistics!?  Bah, 98% of statistics are lies!!!'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm still not sure if zade is an excellent troll who's always in character or just plain retarded'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, mind you, evolution is an incomplete theory, still the best we have'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah that's a great one'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'we don't know everything yet, we never will :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'show me a transitional fossil!!!'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'for example, with native AmerIndians, what percentage is original Amerindian -- some say far less than 50% -- namely there are no Amerindians any more, merely immigrants posing as Amerindians (but 1/16 Amerindians are permitted to open Casinos)'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never understood the laws preventing casinos'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'None is pretty ridiculous, but it's low.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'me either, although I have no problem preventing children from going in.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, should be up to state/local level to decide whether they want casinos'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it kinda is, varies by state'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm all for regulating them to ensure they're not frauds'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, that too'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are frauds anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'in general, with most of these things that are illegal I'd rather have them legal, regulated, and taxed'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'gambling, prostitution, and pot :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they arbitrarily ban people from casinos who have the ability to card count'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they see someone winning, they get rid of them'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they shouldn't be able to do that, though if they want to set winning ceilings they should be able to do that'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'have no problem with winning ceilings although, were I to write the law, there would also be losing floors set to the same level :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only do they kick out card counters, but they collaborate with other casinos'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the immigrants stole their lands, then stole their burial grounds (to liberate the gold), murdered off their buffalo, then stole their reservations, and lo, Tigernuts wants the immigrants to steal their Casinos'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not giving a pass to the actions of the invaders, zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, he wants there to be rules'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"immigrant" rules'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, we're all immigrants if you want to play that game'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'we are all aliens and you cant prove me wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Razkin D
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'whoops, but yeah, there was suppose to be some eyes in that emoticon!'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, hwuai, just you'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope nope nope, that term "iimigrans" likely does not apply to longterm aboriginals'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the poor Clovis culture was pushed out by the Indians :('
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though, to be fair, that's somewhat debated'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope nope nope, that term "immigrants" likely does not apply to longterm aboriginals'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so if we stay here long enough, we can not be immigrants?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while we're talking about aliens, if you didn't see this, yuo probably should: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b0w36GAyZIA'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'while we're talking about aliens, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfPWpEKhgfk'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://news.yahoo.com/nsa-intercepts-laptop-deliveries-install-spyware-143011341.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'brings new meaning to the phrase, 'I see what you did there!''
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, razkin'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://news.yahoo.com/yikes-nsa-turn-iphone-camera-mic-without-knowing-124525611.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, it's all in the video i posted link to'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I had to type that, because they're listening'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ahh, yeah, iw as going to watch that, it looks interesting, but it's an hour long'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything tin foil hat wearers have been castigated for for the last 15 years, turns out it was all true'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but they're doing it for our protection, and only against the bad guys!'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looking our for our protection by making us open to attack from ANYONE'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gee thanks'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, if you did do anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.  So need to get worked up.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'err, didn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but while the NSA does it to clam down on their political opponents, if we do the same it's illegal'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you know, on a serious note, there's always a give and take between protection and freedom, but I think we've finally crossed over to the side where the payoff isn't worth it'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I agree.'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, the point at which they sabotaged equipment, and recorded everything everyone was doing and started farming it for law enforcement and political gain was the overstep'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and why on earth did the media castigate them for bugging Angela Merkel's phone? That's IS in the scope of their job'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's the scary thing when it comes to our laws and all the new technology out there.  We know they can't just waltz into our homes and start searching, however, our technology doesn't seem to have that limitation'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'because they got caught'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would think assassinating political activists was more of an overstep'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yet, we like to assume that it does, because we're use to our property being , well, our property'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'used to the illusion we have property rights, right?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if that makes any sense, maybe it doesn't, it is kind of early here for me'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah , we think we have rights that they think we don't'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not that it's the NSA, but I was reading a bit ago that stores are starting to track how cellphones move through their buildings, to get an idea on traffic patterns'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I bet if you asked most people, they would think that they have a right to not have their cell phones tracked'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but since it's out in public, etc., there's nothing illegal going on'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'of course, maybe I'm wrong, maybe most people don't care about things like that'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'do tracked cellphones provide alibis -- likely not'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, but I'd agree, probably not'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tracked cellphones may be used as probable evidence that a specific somebody was "there", but not as credible evidence that a specific somebody was "not there"'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tracked cellphones may be used as probable evidence that a specific somebody was "there", but not as credible evidence that a specific somebody was "somewhere else" to there'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well furthermore, someone else could easily be carrying a cellphone so I doubt it'd be very useful, a security camera would be a lot more useful for alibis'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a slip of tongue while under extreme interrogation pressure is usable as evidence of guilt, but protestations of innocence are disregarded'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, that's like the lie detector tests'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'failing a lie-detector test is indication of guilt, passing a lie-detector test is not evidence of innocence'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they measure stress, which is just assumed to mean that you're stressed about lying'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'did you know that you can fail a lie detector test simply by knowing how they work, and indicating as such'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'or at least that's what I've read, though maybe that's a bit out dated'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yep, and it's not uncommon to fail the lie detector test just due to nervousness -- a friend of mine wanted to work for the government, but he's a nervous guy and just couldn't pass'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'except some humans are always exhibit stress -- those that Obsessive-Compulsive look for worst case scenarios'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, my understaning is that most jurisdictions don't allow those tests, but the questions and answers are allowed as evidence'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'heh, on a side note, I saw someone the other day talking about how the couldn't leave their house without photographing their stove so they could be sure it wasn't on'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i've heard of people doing that with their garage doors, but never a stove'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i always go around doing a door check'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think of it less of OCD and more just common sense'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'one door check is normal'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'five is not'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what if you have five doors, checking each?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'there are arguments that aprons, by offering people a backup form of both control, increase sexual activity, and thereby increase pregnancies'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'abortions rather'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you know that I meant checking each door five times :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, andurien, i don't know whether it's a strong effect, but certainly promoting promiscuity will increase pregnancies'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as well as all of the other societal issues that go with it, parentless kids, disease, moral degredation'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mayor de Blasio begins his kingship by trying to ban horse carriages in new york city'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, he had to think of something to top banning "Big Gulp" cups...'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i notice places about the US are banning the use of e-cigarettes in public, UK was thinking of something similar'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Edward Snowden, hero or villain?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'by edward snowden do you mean our very own fiendish?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'I don't know enough to say, what did he do, exactly?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's telling that members of the establishment on both sides of the fake political spectrum attack him. When someone does that, you're probably right over the target. There was never any chance of him being able to whistleblow through channels'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only whistleblowing option left to him was the one he took'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what did he whistleblow?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illegal NSA mass surveillance, NSA lying to congress about mass surveillance, complicity of NSA with foreign governments in illegal mass surveillance'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the extent to which your modern gadgets are compromised, Apple IPhone being the worst'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what did the NSA do that was illegal?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the extent to which your data is collected and stored and passed on to law enforcement for reasons outside the scope of national security'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably quicker to ask what haven't they done'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'well the details matter for whether he was a villain or a hero, b/c that's really what it comes down to'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically the NSA claimed, and said under oath in front of congress that they were not doing mass collection of phone records and internet communications, turns out they were'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were also actively hacking communications infrastructure from transport level right the way down to individual devices'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'major software and hardware companies were complicit'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'technology companies in the US have already lost an estimated $15bn in revenue from the outfall'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i guess what he did is a good thing then'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this link has some info about their hacking capability: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfPWpEKhgfk'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the government is so fucked up, them collecting data isn't really high on my worry list.  they don't even know what to do with it'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absolutely, if nothing else it proves to the naysayers how unsecure their communications are, not only to the US government, but to everyone else as well'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they pass it on to law enforcement and the political hitteams'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i'm far more concerned about the irs as a poltiical tool than the nsa'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'or the NLRB'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'are we still arguing about the nsa?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all part of the same toolkit'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, was that link supposed to be ID4?'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"government departments using their power to target political opponents"'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something out of east germany or the USSR'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'toe the line, or we'll sick the IRS on you'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now the IRS have access to all your health info. What could possibly go wrong!'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd need to go searching a bit, but some of the things the IRS can do is almost worse than the NSA'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I remember reading a whole article on it a few months ago, but i forget the specifics of it'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure the IRS haven't shot anyone yet, but they have all been armed now'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-31/the-irs-just-won-tuition-deduction-case-against-an-mba-dot-are-you-next'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you can deduct tuition, unless the irs doesn't think you can'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'unless you are poor, or a corporate special interest, the government is only there to fuck you in the ass'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'amen to that, Kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why it needs to go'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, was searching.  I'd have to re-read it, but I think this is the article I was talking about'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/17/two-obamacare-mandates-that-dramatically-expand-the-internal-revenue-services-power/'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'razkin: no, the point of that article is that tuition is normally not deductable at all, and the guy was stretching the one situation it's allowed to be deductable'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I mean the first one, haven't read that new one'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh, I'm sure he was streatching his arguement, but I wonder how many people try and follow the rules but open themselves up to trouble'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what I took from it was that with the wins in court, the irs has more reason now to start persueing some of the less obvious cases'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the second article might not be the one I was remembering reading,  I'm still kind of looking it over again'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reduce tax rates, remove all deductions, can pretty much gut the IRS at that point, problem solved'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'so much easier said than done'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'no pressure on govt to shrink, only to expand'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'why would you reduce our largest employer? :D'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there's something messed up about that statement'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with no external pressure, government will always grow, if for no other reason but to protect it's own monopoly on power'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran is accusing Saudi Arabia for ordering embassy bombing in Lebanon. Meantime, 'Affordable Care' signees aren't able to get care because of trouble with the doctors getting paid'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hands up who is surprised'
T3/r7/2014-01-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.online-paralegal-programs.com/legal-rights/'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'who was talking about Reductio ad absurdum '
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'Fallujah has fallen to ISIS'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'emm its one of those minority religious groups that has mostly minority members and usually gets overcrowded and sometimes frowned upon by majority religious groups like oh, shi'ite islamists have in the surrounding areas'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im sorry how can a group have mostly minority members?'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'minority relative to what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'emm the region'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or do you just mean it is a religion without a homeland, like kurdish'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'take for example, saudi arabia, most of the people there are officially muslims.'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'but there are other minority religious groups as well'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sure, and several different sects too'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so is it a sect of one of the big 3? or is it something else entirely?'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '(or big 6 if you include the non-abrahimics)'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'its not one of the big 3, but it has some shared elements'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i'd say it's more comparable to gnostic christians and sufi practicioners than it is to the big 3 themself'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so like zorastrianism?'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I actually don't know any chauvanstic zorasterians'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im sure they exist though'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude points excitedly!
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'VD is attempting to lure AL into a debate on religion'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Salamander Samalander: 'I refuse to believe that'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'VD likes Jesus, and munching on his allmighty altar'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe he's just playing with his twanger'
T3/r7/2014-01-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Retier?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the US, African Americans make up 13% of the population, have 52% of all abortions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Colorado citizens should be miffed. The magazine ban did not garner one Republican vote in the House or Senate, and now as a result of this one-sided, Democrat-sponsored law, more than 200 people will lose their jobs and their ability to provide for their families, said Ms. Saine in a statement. [T]his move will cost the state of Colorado over $80 million a year in revenue.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. a perfect pool table without pockets. no friction, no air resistance or any other annoying influences. once you set one ball in motion, will the movements of all those balls become a loop sometime?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'possibly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit of a false question to remove all external influences, and ignoring the laws of physics. Having said that, there exist many starting conditions that would lead to repeatable patterns. One would then postulate that for a repeatable loop, the original conditions would be at some point revisited. Assuming that reactions are identical this would imply that there will always be a loop, even if the time required to the original conditions tended to infinity'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there would also be situations in which a loop is reached that would make it impossible to return to the original conditiojns'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, my bank just tried to trick me into going to paperless billing'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'they should offer to pay customers some fraction of the money they save on postage/account statements etc and more people might do it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't, and i resent them trying to trick people into doing it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'it's true though, they get away with a lot more of their BS extra fees and charges when people never get a paper statement. Is that your issue with paperless billing?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without paper billing you have no proof of transactions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd never want a bank account only accessable online, either'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I haven't walked inside a back (other than to support them for work) in probably 5 years'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i walk into the bank when there is an issue'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i will likewise walk into a bank to get a mortgage'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'online and paperless is fine with me...I have all my statements in PDF'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about when online isn't available?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or there's aproblem?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I use online when there is a problem, and online isn't not available...ever'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wel the first thing online banks here do if there's a problem is prompt you to phone'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'phone's still better than hauling my ass to a branch, but I haven't ever had to use the phone for an issue rather than using the online contacts'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '(and I could walk to a branch from my house)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there's the difference, there are no online contacts for online banking here'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and as far as offering to pay customers some of what they save on paper, many banks do waive fees on accounts which would otherwise have monthly fees when you go paperless'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'do you find yourself able to pay as close attention to your accounts and any fees with the electronic statements? just curious'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's the exact same statement...except I don't have to wait for it, so yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I can look at transactions basically in realtime, or look at the PDF statement which if I wasn't paperless they'd just send to a printer and mail off'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have fees, so it isn't an issue'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'probably keeps a lot of people more protected from identity theft I imagine. for those who would throw a paper statement in the garbage without even shredding it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's your fault'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, not that they don't keep sending offers and stuff, but at least there's no account info in those'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no financial benefit to me for having paperless billing, so they can continue to send me paper'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, there is financial benefit, you just don't see down the road far enough'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is the benefit down the road?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you think that businesses such as banks don't shift burdens of cost on to customers?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that takes many forms, fees only being one of them'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they do, and there's no financial incentive for me having no paper bills'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they were gonna give me a couple of bucks a month for not having paper billings, that would be a different matter, that at least would pay for me printing my statement out monthly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that ain't going to happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no reason to pring out the statement monthly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'print*'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course there is, i want a printed record'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which then is kept for the required 5 years'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's just stupid :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'required for tax purposes'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'is not'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so if you're called up for a review and you have no bank statements, how are you going to prove what transactions take place? You either have access to your bank statements, or you have to pay the bank to reprint them'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'keeping records for 5 years is required...keeping it in hardcopy form is not'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'IF you're called up for review, THEN you print only the records being requested'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'printing just as matter of course is silly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no difference, you're still holding a backup of it somewhere'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there is a difference'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no difference at all'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'one takes time and has associated cost, the other does not'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the cost of the media, cost of replacing the media, cost of time putting it onto the media vs printing a copy'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't a great deal'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'media?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You fall to the floor laughing at Tigernuts's remark.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you plan on saving this pdf in thin air'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're cute..and I thought you were a computer guy'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because keeping it on your hard drive is safe, those things never fail'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'suppose you're using floppy disks?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wow, you've never heard of backups'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you really suck at your job'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'backup is via a hard disk'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i suppose you have a free supply of hard disks, flash drives or otherwise?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then the backup is not free'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is for the statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then what are you storing them on for the backup?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you aren't purchasing hard drives for the statements, you aren't increasing the size of your hard drives or backups via those statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at some point one must be purchased, even if you argue that you use online backup, that has cost'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, one mustn't be purchased'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no financial incentive'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the same thing, you're making a backup of your statement, whether digital or on paper, you have access to that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it's not the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's having a copy of your bank statement versus not having a copy of your bank statement'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you will purchase hard drives as a matter of doing business, not as part of storing your statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i will have a printer as a matter of doing business, not as a part of printing bank statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but that printer's cost changes because of the statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the hard drive's cost does not'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure it does'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's the difference'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hard drive requires replacing'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paper does not'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'paper certainly does, you replace it with each printout'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and again, the hard drive isn't replaced for the statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'consumable cost vs hardware cost'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hardware cost isn't changed, consumable cost is'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the costs involved are a + nb where a is the hardware cost, b is the cost per statement and n is the number of statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so the paper has a cost while the hard drive does not'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a and b are non-zero in both cases'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'incorrect'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then your hard drive lasts forever'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it takes zero time to download and backup your pdf?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'less time than to open the statement envelope'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not just say you prefer digital statements to paper ones because you find them more convenient?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'boy, I knew your Internet sucked, I didn't know it was a 300 baud modem'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I do find them more convenient, but that's not the discussion'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'storage of bank statements is trivial, really'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'takes finite time to get the hard drive out, plug it in, log on to the bank website through the three million security steps, etc etc etc'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'get the hard drive out? you don't have one in the computer?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a backup we're talking about'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you don't do backups?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't do backups on my bank statements...I do backups of my computer'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the bank statement isn't backed up separately, and has zero impact on the time it takes to perform the backup'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'zero?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'zero'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'how does adding files to the required backup add zero time?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't take any capacity either'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'perhaps its a trivial amount of time, but zero?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'that extra half a meg will add lots of time'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the backup is performed asynchronously and invisibly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it doesn't take capacity'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'opening a bank statement letter take ages, apparently'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not ages, just longer than electronically'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd debate that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you are ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'purely on the length of time needed to log into any online banking system'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i don't see how you could claim it adds zero time when it still has to actually perform the backup of the files that, in tigernuts case, wouldn't exist otherwise'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'perhaps its a trivial minute amount of time... but zero?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I spend absolutely zero time backing up my bank statements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so do i'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'fully and completely zero'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you back up your computer, which backs up your bank statements assuming you store them in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i also spend zero time downloading them, which is considerably less than i would otherwise have to'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i spend zero time checking my mail for bank statements because i'm paperless'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I take it you never log into your bank's site, tiger?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on occasions, abe'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'more or less than once a month?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i spend a trivial amount of time following the link sent to me via email telling me my statement is ready and then i download it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less, usually'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i don't understand why it even matters which way is better...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't do that here, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so when there's a problem, you're a month behind in noticing, or do you check balances at ATMs?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, scars, so why should be people be forced down one route because people lying about the benefits of the alternative?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they have no email notifications in the UK?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get a balance check every time i use an ATM, nogs'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might get a mail notification that a statement is ready, but no direct download link'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the creation of paper bank statements and mailing them out is not a trivial cost to the bank'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at least if there is, you still go through the extended log-in/security system'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who gives a fuck about the bank's costs?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they rip off joe public anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tiger is of the belief that thae bank doesn't transfder that cost to its customers'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're more than welcome to. If they do, i'll change banks :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'oh, well, then clearly increasing their costs has an equal effect... where they won't pass that on to you'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if he doesn't have a monthly fee today, it doesn't (and won't in the future) impact him'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have a monthly fee. Monthly fees for consumer accounts are not tolerated in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have to "sell" accounts with a fee by offering some kind of arbitrary benefits package'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'since i've gone paperless, i'm actually more organized and find things faster'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i actually find myself scanning/storing paperbills that i can't get sent to me electronicly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing wrong with my organisation either, i'm entirely happy with the paper billing situation'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but you're willing to ignore the benefits of not printing statements and the postage required to deliver them?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no benefit to me'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if postage goes up, price of paper goes up... there's still no impact to you?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dear Scars, I'm your bank, I'm here to offer you a package that is inferior to your current one for NO ADDITIONAL COST!'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if the expenses for the bank go up, because they're conducting business the way you want them to... that doesn't matter to you?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'inferior?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said, consumer banking in the UK, banks earn money from deposits, and from penalty fees'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'statements are not charged for, monthly fees are not charged for'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'who said anything about a fee?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it'd be implicit'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not paying for posted statements now, so i will neither save money by going paperless, nor will i be paying more if paper and postage go up'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm sure it also doesn't impact mortgage rates, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it'd be part of the spread between what they give in interest on your deposits and what the mortgage / auto rates are'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't take out a mortgage with my bank'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they pay such little interest that it wouldn't affect that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but others would, correct?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'under the earnings model, they'd probably increase penalty fees, because lowering interest rates on savings products or raising loan fees would make them vulnerable to the competition'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'look, you can take the stance that the reprecussions of your preferred method of banking are irrelevant to you regardless of how real they are... but don't try and play it off like they aren't real'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a free market. If they want me to give up a facility that i'm happy with, they have to make it worth my while'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's a heavily regulated market, but you're free to enter and leave it as you please'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, so if they force the issue or impose penalties, i will'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and work in cash only?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'that would reduce your issues with banks'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or move to a bank that still offers that facility'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which there will inevitably be because despite being of cost to the bank, it's a facility that makes them attractive to some'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'simply a matter of time before that road ends'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt, that's why i'm continuing to use it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hehe, milk it for all it's worth'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'again, do whatever you're comfortable with... but recognize that banks that offer it have higher expenses, which means they have to make up for it somewhere... and you choose to deposit at a bank having to deal with it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's precisely why they're not forcing people to go to paperless,and instead trying to trick them via these stupid online popups. If people agree to it, they can remove the facility by saying "people didn't want this"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is the same argument they're trying to use for getting rid of cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '"trick" ?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that was the "new free inferior service" note'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'carefully worded notices/buttons that are the opposite to what people would expect, much like the "tick here if you do not want your details used in this manner"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i go months without carrying any cash *shrug*'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i use cash wherever possible'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, pretty much the only reason I grab cash is that we go out on Friday nights with a buddy, I pay our portion in cash and he puts the remainder on his card'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then again, I *DO* get financial incentives to not use cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have plenty of incentives to not use card'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i just fail to see how you could claim the electronic approach is *inferior* - you could claim it's different, and maybe you personally don't like it... but to claim it's inferior isn't accurate'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all of our credit cards are "bonus" cards'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inferior is a point of personal preference, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'd like to think of inferior as an objective measure, but okay, do it your way'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so for the same $60 in gas, I get cash back for using the card and nothing back for paying in cash (plus convenience of not having to walk into the booth/store)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but you open yourself up to identify theft every time you use the card, amirite tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'll happily let them track my drives between Philly and Buffalo for that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I don't really get incentives, but not going into the store is a huge bonus for me :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is an objective measure, but in this case the identifiable measurable things are things that are important to me and the way i make use of it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking from someone living in the credit card fraud capital of the world, yes'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though that isn't my primary reason'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'meh, I'm comfortable that all my cards are protected...if they have a skimmer, they get access to the card info and I could deny the charges'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'in rural missouri, where my in laws are from, up until 2 or 3 years ago they sold gas at a "Credit/Debit" price and a "Cash" price... Cash was maybe 0.20 cheaper/gal'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well here if you get attacked, you might get informed by the credit card fraud brigade and ultimately refunded, but in the meantime you're without access to your money'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I do log into the online site and look at recent transactions regularly enough to notice early'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, I remember when they outlawed that in Erie County (Buffalo's county), it was a great thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I didn't realize it wasn't universally outlawed until I started travelling'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'not sure if it was a law or competition, but they quit doing it at some point'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people are allowed to charge processing fees for cards/cheques here, but it must be in keeping with the actual cost'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'which i'm sure they have figured out down to the transaction :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it's pretty easy but not necessarily the same for all vendors'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I studied up on the rules for visa/MC (not laws but their requirements for being a vendor)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typically, for a debit card trasaction 15c, for a mastercard/visa 3%, for amex, 12%'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'those "minimum $5 purchase" aren't allowed'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you know what i like about credit cards? i keep one piece of plastic in my wallet and i suddenly have to travel to fewer places (no atms, no banks, never need to go get cash "just in case")'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never have that issue, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and visa/MC/Amex don't allow vendors to charge different rates for different cards'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's the case, abe, visa/mc/amex shouldn't charge different rates to each other'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i use my credit card to buy gum sometimes'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's part of their rules as well...you CAN charge a card fee, but it must be universal and we must be equal to others'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'why not? they offer different services'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so while they may not be allowed to have those arrangements in the UK due to regulatory issues, in the US merchants must have the same fees regardless of the card'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you can see now why Amex is not popular here'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, amex is my only card that uses points rather than cash for its bonuses'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i use mastercard, cash back'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have a mastercard that sits in my safe and is used as an emergency overdraft'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'my dad's got some pretty pimped out rewards cards...his work used to send him all over the world, and he'd book on his card and get reimbursed...racked up so many free hotels'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I pay nearly everything by credit card, and pay full balance monthly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no cost, but big rewards'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'same abe, i haven't paid a dime of interest on a credit card in my life'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'find it odd that i'm to be castigated for taking advantage of a free paper statement service, yet you happily pay over the odds by using plastic'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'credit card companies make money at the transaction, so simply by me using the credit card they're making some money - by paying off the balance in full, they don't incur any additional costs only lose out on potential revenue'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but i don't know the mix of revenue between interest payments and transaction fees, so i don't know how much it matters'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given some typical transaction charges'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'now for vendors, while they incur cost for the transaction, they also have less cash-based costs...dealing with cash, tendering change, etc is costly from a retail standpoint'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on the scale of vendor'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'let me ask you this... if working in cash was truly optimal, why are there so many food vendors (like a hot dog vendor) using card readers for purchases?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the big local gas station chain recently started using autodispensers for coin change'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of demand, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'when i go to the local taco stand, they don't even accept cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, because of people like us ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh wow, I don't think I've run across places that don't accept cash yet'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i came across a place that didn't use cash, i'd pick somewhere else :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'missing out bro, them are some awesome tacos'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like some trendy fake liberal bullshit to me'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you're a dinasour'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'own it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd imagine the reason for that is actually security'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn right'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no cash transactions means robbers should know that they've got jack to steal'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, when you live in third world country you have to worry about that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, no robberies in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i didn't realize the UK was void of crime?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'thats impressive'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'must be that gun ban, eh?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have crime, but most criminals here don't hold up taco stands'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I could easily abolish crime anywhere in the world.  Just remove all those pesky laws!'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if it ain't illegal, it ain't a crime, amirite?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav flails his head up and down... you can see the blonde roots.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'most criminals you *hear about* perhaps'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you let your taco vendors be armed, chances are muggers will leave them alone'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a story for a different dinosaur'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm sure the muggers are unarmed, and don't have the element of surprise'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so we're back down to personal preference, again'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wait, what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'sure - the personal preference of choosing to care about certain indisputable facts that really matter'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, the argument for paperless billing is it costs the banks less (whether or not that benefit is passed on) yet you use cards which costs the vendors more'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so either you're a hypocrite, or it that isn't really a valid reason'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I disagree that they cost the vendors more'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paying by credit card costs more than a debit card or cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for all transactions over about $4'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not necessarily'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'credit card and debit card transation consts are not meaningfully different'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and the cost to handle cash is not trivial'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'umm yes they are'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are entirely different, one is fixed fee, one is a percentage'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'maybe in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pan-europe, i believe'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'even in the US'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if you use your debit card AS a credit card, which many do, it's a different fee than as a debit card'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'most debit cards have credit card network logos on them'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'otherwise they'd just be ATM cards :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'no, you can use a debit card w/o a mastercard or visa logo as a debit card'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'I do, b/c it rquires PIN entry in case someone stole my card it would be worthless'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then it's essentially an ATM transaction'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'as worthless as your pin is difficult to guess anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'believe is has to be networked in here, but that's here'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Robotface Fugmug: 'however for a debit transaction you usually have no buyer protection against fraudulent or erroneous charges'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'no, an ATM transaction is withdrawing cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just for the record, if there was a move away from cash, i'd go to anonymous cash-cards as an alternative'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Robotface Fugmug: 'credit type transactions you can always chargeback'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'entirely different than buying something without cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have statuatory protection here, Fugmug'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i can't find a source to agree with your meaningful difference in fees - can you show me a link please?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm curious what the fees are'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'because: http://www.cardfellow.com/blog/debit-card-transaction-fees/'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'unsure on reliability of source'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you can find it on wikipedia'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'For example, a premium credit card that offers rewards generally will have a higher interchange rate than do standard cards. Transactions made with credit cards generally have higher rates than those with signature debit cards, whose rates are in turn typically higher than PIN debit card transactions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but that doesn't support your flat fee claim'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whose flat fee claim?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the charge to the vendor is based on his merchant agreement, not on the card'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'I didn't make a flat fee claim'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tiger did'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and the merchant agreement varies based on the card... so you are just playing semantics, same with your "debit card is the same as an ATM card" silly comment'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it doesn't kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is based on the merchant agreement. I have never seen or heard of a UK merchant agreement that charges %age for debit card transactions. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cardsloans/article-2363930/Why-pay-use-credit-debit-card.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gives a basic primer, though their figures are based on multinational shops with paid merchants services'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'my internet is awful today, and i can't quickly find a comparison in the charges related'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'for US'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the fee schedules are defintely somewhere accessible'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i believe it, i just can't quickly search right now...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then take it on trust :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'would just like to verify'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ATM's here used to be tied to a certain bank network and you used to be charged a fee to use it if not part of that network'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same principle, i guess. They don't do that here anymore'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'basically there is a minimum charge for low $$$ transactions which fuck the merchant, and then it scales.  But the level depends on the type of card, as I quoted from wikipedia'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i already knew that... i was hoping to see an example of, i dunno, mastercard credit v debit'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3% vs 15c'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it doesn't depend on the level of card, the merchant agreement is based on accepting cards'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'for UK, that's super, i don't really care about UK though'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i ask because for Visa: Retail Debit ($15 or more): 0.80% plus $0.15'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'for mastercard: Merit III Debit ($15 or more): 1.05% plus $0.15'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'do you know what merit III means vs. Merit II?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never come across the term'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'Merit III is generally a retail card-present transaction and has a low Discount Rate'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'merit iii means it was a swiped card, not that it was a premium card or anything else'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'PIN debit is somewhere 0.8 to 0.9% plus $0.18'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'depends on cost'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'erm'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'depends on type of transaction'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'which i didn't bother to fully look into because it's fairly flat across them'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it might be fairly flat, but it's not the same.  different level of reward cards have different fee levels, so don't listen to Abe'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the cards don't charge the merchant...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well either way, cards cost transaction fees. Cash has cost in terms of security/change, but also has the capacity to save money by using cash to directly pay people, bills etc, so is situation/context dependant'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '[on-the-board] businesses generally don't want to pay people, bills, etc in cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the point remains, you choose to use cards because they are convenient to you, regardless of any cost implication to the businesses. I use paper billing for the same'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they want their expenses on the books with a paper trail'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'for whoever was saking, here's visa's schedule'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/Interchange_Rate_Sheets.pdf'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many SME's will happily use cash to save banking fees'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, the benefit reduces the larger the business'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is context/situation dependent'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if you would simply agree that different <> inferior/superior that'd be great'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inferior/superior are dependant on personal circumstances and values'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'kojiro: read the second paragraph in that PDF...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'thanks Mill'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what about it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's stating that the PDF is not what merchants pay'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so, that was my entire point to you'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you didn't have a point'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts points excitedly at Not Guilty Kojiro!
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think this particular subject has reached it's end. Long live paper bank statements, and woe betide my bank if they try and sneak my permission to remove them again'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i also insist on being sent paper statements and my latest envelope said this on the front:  "I used to be a tree :("'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should send a letter back saying "Banks didn't used to employ criminals"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it was from the utility'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'btw, US debt went up $600bn in the last 3 months, happy new year'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'is that seasonal or something?  sounds too high to annualize'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably just a timing thing, and probably as a result of the budget shouting'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i wonder what happens to corporate profits when we stop running large fiscal deficits'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'LOUD NOISES'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'everyone talks about QE this and that, but the fiscal deficit to me seems like the elephant in the room'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if I borrow my annual income and then spend it, the local economy is going to be better off by that amount, but it's not sustainable'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i think the sum fisscal deficit since '08 is like 20k for every man woman and child in the US'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be an almighty correction, which is why they now can't'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'reasonably close, if you use the official gov't pretend numbers'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'rather more if you use gaap accounting for future obligations (social security, medi-whatever)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'social security is a bit of a seperate issue than the general fund problems, but okay'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't social security a multi-trillion dollar black hole?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and using gaap accounting you would need to show that social security is fully funded, which its not, but it doesn't need to be since the government will exist and be able to pay for the benefits'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's a hot mess, that's for sure'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ours works a bit differently, current pensioners are paid out of current tax receipts'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'tsy people do calculate 'real gaap' type deficits, which have mostly been in the 2t-4t range during the past half a dozen years'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'due to those vexing future obligations'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just the NHS and police pension liability is a $20bn yearly cost'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is how ours works too TN'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but using gaap accounting on government books is just misleading since the essence of gaap accounting (or ifrs for that matter) is not about sovereigns'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we just have a special tax that is used for SS'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it's hard to quantify.  inevitably, the retirement age will go up and that lowers the unfunded obligation.  the program will change once we are closer to a crisis.  govt doesn't react except to crisis.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no guarantees of a future pension here, people just assume there's a "pot" they've been paying into, but it's all a fraud like most regime things'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'tsy guys usually count the change in unfunded liabilities, where the current taxation level is included in funding'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I do not particularly agree with the accounting school that says gov't gaap is all fine and well'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..I disagree with it even more now that I have a gov't accounting job and see the idiocy spawned by gov't accounting standards :('
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'one thing all the crap the government did after the whole banking meltdown showed me though.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the entire "social security is going to go broke" thing is just a scare tactic'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government accounting standards are there to hide government profligacy and allow maximum growth of government'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'agree tiger'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no such thing as social security, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'obviously if the fed and the government can create 3 trillion dolars out of thin air to solve the banking "crisis" they can do the same thing to solve the social security one, (if they actually wanted to).'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would they be bailing out?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'look at nationalizing the GSE... any lender would have taken all the equity but the govt stopped at 79.9% to avoid the pure accounting consolidation of fannie/freddie balance sheet.  just to avoid making govt numbers optically worse'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the SSA of course'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but there's nothing to bail out'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what do you mean?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's like saying you're going to bail out the IRS'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you doubt the existence of the administration?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the administration exists, but they don't have assets'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they absolutely do'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here they don't'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and they are probably worth as much as the tainted assets that TAR was bailing out'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '(i.e. next to nothing).'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'here they mostly own treasury products.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do the SSA in the US have assets equal to all the money the citizens have put in compounded by the base rate of interest?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(or higher)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the answer is "no", then the US public have been lied to, or at the very best, misled'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no but they do have (at least in theory) an amount equal to everything paid in, minus everything paid out (with interest earned on the treasury notes while they own them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'social security is pay-as-you-go, not a fully funded pension... it's functioning as intended'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Emm nods at <pretitle> Scars.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if you view it as the government holding on to your money so they can give it back to you later with interest, you don't understand how the program works'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's not an investment account, its a tax and a benefit'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its got some funding issues coming up though, but nothing insurmountable'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why it can never work unless the working population contributions increase over time'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'or benefits reduced'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now that employment is reducing and population tapering, it becomes unfundable at anything remotely like the current benefits'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'baby boomer retirement will test the resolve of our politicians to either secure elderly votes with higher taxes or secure younger votes with reduced benefits'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, the tories are going after the grey vote'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the young skew liberal, so that's an easy one.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're relying on the fact that young people are fuckwits and don't ever vote anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is also foolish because you're kicking the can down the road where it'll be even harder to fix'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'since we've yet to run into a situation where the pay-as-you-go approach was unable to cut all of the checks, and we're not due to have that happen for a few decades, this isn't something just around the corner'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but will that guy still be there when it catches up?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'nobody really teaches young people how the world works, they are clueluess and emotional and pay no taxes anyway.  they will vote for whoever is tallest or most charismatic'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no but like most things scars the sooner we deal with the looming problem the less painful it will be'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'actually kojiro most young people are net tax payers'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's political suicide to address it currently, since it's a transfer of wealth from working to nonworking people'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so it'll be addressed only when it must be'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I think he means even younger'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'they might be "net" tax payers, but their gross payments are tiny'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'at least once they enter the marketplace'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'our politicians aren't exactly altruistic'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sure, but since there are so many of them its not something to ignore'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'remmeber payroll taxes are generally regressive'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'ther are fewer young people as % of our population than in a long, long time'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and how'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'maybe ever'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd ditch payroll taxes'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you know I would too TN :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but at least here that is what funds SSI, SSD, Medicare, etc'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'payroll taxes are largely flat, but they're not regressive except for SSA which caps out at some 100K figure that i'm sure one of you has handy'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no scars they cut off'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'all but medicare cuts off'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'not "all" the income tax that's part of the general fund is limitless'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ssi, ssd, and federal unemployment insurance taxes all cut off, as do state unemployement taxes in most states'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'that's waht he said, but i'm not sure how he can claim payroll taxes are not regressive'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and even medicare payroll tax is regressive because it only covers earned income'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the percentage of your income that is earned income declines as your income rises in general'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'because i'm not doing great with words atm... i was just trying to point out that non-odshi taxes don't regress'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'wait, doesn't it hit investment income now too?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'except for stupid athletes who don't invest thier millions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and afaik there are very few of those left'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'emm I'm pretty sure that cap gains, interest etc. all get hit w/ medicare tax starting in 2013'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'anyway, the point is that social security is not an investment where you get your money "back" at the end... it's a tax and a benefit, so it doesn't need to be fully funded like a coporations pension'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well there was a 3.8% increase on netgains taxes, but that still puts them below earned income'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I'm getting letters every year about the funding situation for my vested pension...we'll see if that exists for much longer :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars rapidly nods twice to you, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'personally, i think the creation of the 401k and the IRA helped create this mentality of SSA as an investment and the tax money was somehow "yours"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but thats just me...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the money isn't yours scars, but there is a legal obligation for them to pay the amount you have "earned" as calculated by law.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I have a 403b from the library job that I'm just gonna let sit there, and about to start a simple IRA with current employer'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but it's simply recalculated whenever they want/need...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not that congress and the president (or 3/4ths of congress without the president) can't change that law.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am just running on the assumption that by the time i get old, i'll die before i can claim a state pension, so will therefore have to save for my own retirement'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'why not consolidate into the IRA abe?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am just working on the premise that I don't want to live if I am not working anymore so I don't really care about my own social security.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not paying any fees for the 403b, might as well leave it for diversification and the different rules for the two'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i am working on the premise that social security isn't enough for my retirement anyway, and have been preparing for my retirement under the assumption that i didn't *need* the money in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but you can invest however you want, right? it's a self-directed fund? whatever you're invested in at the 403b you could invest in with the IRA, or something similar?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'no harm in doing what you're doing, just means you have to be mindful of its existance :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you can invest hwoever you want, and if you are successful enough you will probably be confiscated like the old days of govt taxing 401k money if your income was a certain level (true)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I can invest how I want within the couple dozen options it has'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'e.g. when i left my last employer, i rolled the 401k into my already existing IRA, no penalties, nothing special... and invested in a very similar fund'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yea scars, it's a delicious way to skirt IRA contribution limits'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'meh, IRA and 401(k) aren't meaningfully different if you're taking the tax deduction on the IRA'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not realy skirting them, they were contributed in previous years under limits...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is plenty of economic commentary going that will result in people's 401k's, pensions, and bank accounts being taxed or "haircut" as happened in Cyprus'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your savings are definitely not safe'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if you know what you are doing, an IRA >>>>>>> 401k'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you're consolidating funds that were invested under identical environments'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'unless you're referring to the match'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'abelinc, it's a total skirt.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '5k ira contribution limit vs. 15k 401k, PLUS you can roll all the profit sharing, employer matching, etc.  which gets you to about 60k per year vs. 5k IRA limit'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it would be a skirt if it let you contribute new money in excess'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a rollover isn't exactly newly squirreled funds'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it makes no rational sense that either the IRA limits are that low relative to 401k, or that you can roll 401k into an IRA'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'ontuct - I agree not new funds, yet the govt puts a limit on the individually controlled account and a much higher limit on the administered plan'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'realize that both ira and 401k tax deductability is phased out for higher income earners'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if i was prevented from rolling the 401k into the IRA i would have rolled it into my existing 401k with my current employer'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'for some folks, individually controlling that money is worth far, far, far more than indexing it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so those who can actually take advantage of the 20k+ contribution per year at tax deductible rates is a pretty small range'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'unless you are a low/middle income earner who is just exceptionally frugal.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'whats that breakpoint?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'do you know offhand?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't remmber offhand and wouldn't want to quote badly, but i could find it in my big tax book'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'even to higher incomes, the tax deduction doesn't matter.  it's still more efficient to compound tax-deferred even if can't deduct the contribution'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'how do you think mitt romney got a 9 figure IRA?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it wasn't by making 5k / yr contributions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although I think even after the income limit the employer matching is still not taxed (up to the contribution limit)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so i guess there is that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav blinks innocently.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'through a self-directed fund that made huge returns'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'that's half of it, but the other half is that it wasn't really a 9 figure IRA until he left bain'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it was an employer / profit matching retirement vehicle like a 401k that co-invested in certain equity classes of levered deals, and when he left he converted it to an IRA.  Now he has a big fat pile of tax-deferred, or non-taxable (if roth) piles of money that he can direct.  clearly w/ the govt's 5k / yr IRA limits, that was not intended to be possible'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the government should have better incentives to invest for retirement'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'let's not even get to the next step, which is that a Roth IRA is inherited tax-free by the heirs, so you kill another bird w/ the IRA stone'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'creates stock/bond bubbles that help float the economy'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'for professionals, the IRA is just massively powerful.  and it's big fat loophole that when you leave your job you can roll 100% of whatever reitrement plan balance into an IRA'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'do you have a suggested alternative that doesn't involve taxing it because you're transfering it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there used to be a $100,000 limit on Roth IRAS but that ended in 2010'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'There is a yearly contribution limit.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's what kojiro's discussing, jhav'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no i mean if you made more than $100,000 you couldn't contribute at all Jhav'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'EMM - that's to make contributions.  Now you can convert your entire IRA to a Roth at any time, regardless of income.  you just owe taxes.  another powerful option for the IRA'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'scars - xfer away, worst case you just index same as the 401k and keep much more fleixiblity over it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'from govt persepctive, either raise the IRA contribution limits to match 401k/profitshare/etc.  or don't let people roll huge amounts into self-directed vehicles'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'peter thiel another 9 figure IRA... b/c he put it into FB at the VC stage'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars nods at Jhav and says, "I concur." Why didn't you?!
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the dichotomy favors the rich and the true investment professional'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'should it not reward those who move equity?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'who move equity?  what does that mean'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'for people covered by 401s the deductability of IRA deductions starts to phase out at $58,000 according to pub 590'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it means giving money to companies so that they can make money is a good thing, and the rich and investment professionals do that (and perhaps do it well)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and are completely phased out at $112,000'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm already in the phasing out range? wow... maybe i should stop using turbotax?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'emm - just so you know even if not deductible, it's better to contribute to an IRA on non-deductible basis than leave it in a regular account (checking, ameritrade, etc.)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i had no idea'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'for those not covered by an employer plan there is no longer a phaseout for IRAs'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'apparently'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'If you put in the max contribution and just make as much as the average gain of the S&P 500, you'd have a 9 figure IRA as well in about 45 years of contributions - and that's assuming they stay at 17.5k for the whole time, which they certainly will not.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Err, 401k'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I forget the contribution limits on an IRA< would have to look it up.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd be curious to see average return rates for fully self-directed vs managed plans over time'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '5500 or your taxable income whichever is greater'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'IRA max contribution isn't 17.5k, it's 5k or 6k i forget'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's easy to say that a good investor will do better with IRA, but will most normal people?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'er less I mean'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Which is why I corrected and said 401k :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'index funds out-perform managed funds 80% of the time... (vanguard study)... i can't imagine individuals doing better somehow'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '$5500 or your taxable income whichever is less'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'abelinc, I don't know.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'also if your spouse is covered by an employer plan there is an income phase out as well'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but it is higher'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'by "managed", I'd actually include indexed funds, but maybe my experience is too small'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you are between 50 and 70.5 you might be able to make catchup payments also'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you might get 8 figures, but I don't think you're getting to 9, jhav'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so if you make 150K gross, put 10% into 401k and 5.5k into your IRA, what are you able to deduct? none of it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I believe you can do both though, so the practical limit is hig'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'her*'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'scars that sounds like tax advice, which I cannot actually give you'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '45 years of 15k compounded at 10% (high!) is only 1.1 mil, and that's the best year'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Nah, just run the math man.  15.8% return, 17.5k a year.  In 46 years you'd have 109,187,619.98.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but I would guess the answer is none of it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course its AGI not GI'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '16% return?  that isn't CLOSE to a long-run equity return'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'of course :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'It is literally the mean return on the s&P 500 :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so the 15K you contribute to the 401k reduces your AGI, so do a lot of other things'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'any "above the line" deductions.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'arithmetic mean not the same as geometric mean'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so it is a much more complicated question than it might seem at first blush'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would say consult a tax professional :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'right, so it's one of those "if your AGI > X, you cannot deduce your 401(k) or IRA until AGI = X" ?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no 401k is different'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'The point being, you can absolutely totally hit 9 figures as an average Joe, as long as you invest in a way that isn't braindead and keep putting money in.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'this sucks... i guess i'll be hiring an accountant next year... i'm getting close to those figures you were talking about :S'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '40%, 5%, -25% = arithmetic mean 6.7%.  you really returned 3.3% per year'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if your agi is between X and X and You or Your Spouse is covered by a 401k, then you can only deduct a percentage'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'no, your math is super wrong'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and if it is over X (and you or your spouse is covered) then you cant deduct any'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'arithmetic vs. geometric isn't a small difference, it's a galactic difference'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'geometric mean is better for return rates imo'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Okay, the geometric mean return is 14.5%'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but my spose does not work, we still file jointly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'spouse*'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes so she can contribute at higher combined AGI than you can'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'gemotric mean since when... 1980 when long rates were 15%?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'So it takes 50 years.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but she might have to have some earned income to contribute at all'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'ugh, you're right... i'll have to talk to a tax pro'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'http://www.irs.gov/publications/p590/ch01.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'thanks for bringing this to my attention'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats the bible for IRAs'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'catching up.. scars at 150k I think you can deduct little to nothing'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'interpretation by non-lawyers or non-tax professionals may be flawed.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but like i said, don't let that dissuade you, it's still a more efficient vehicle than not contributing and investing the money on the side'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'for that matter interpetation by tax lawyers and IRS chairmen may be flawed'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'make the non-deductible contriubtions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'make roth contributions if you are not eiligble to make deductable traditional I think'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm far more concerned with ensuring i file my taxes appropriately'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since they got rid of that limit (assuming that hasn't changed since)_'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'nods, i'd wager a guess that roth contributions are limited somehow too though'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they used to be limited to people with below 100 AGIO'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but they removed that and as far as I could find (with a short search of the code) there isn't an effective limit anymore'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'realizing of courswe that roth contributions are not deductable anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'right, it's paying taxes now, not later... where traditional ira is paying taxes later, not now - simplified, but right?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and whether or not roth distrubtions will be tax free when you go to take them out is anyone's guess :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'basicaly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but of course rules could change'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the AMT plays havoc with all of this if you make enough to be affected by it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'emm, there is still a max limit on a roth ira contribution'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes i think its the same as for traditional but don't quote me on that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'well, whatever the limits are, i have years before i'm too worried about it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'for now, i want to make sure that my claimed IRA deductions are safe'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you can do 5k (or 6k, i forget) of EITHER roth or regular IRA.  not both.  once you hit AGI around 100k, you can't do the roth, and even the regular stops being deductible.  but you can still make a 5-6k non-deductible regular ira contribution (which you should)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you all have lofty hopes for these things'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'motley fool says it is 5500 for 2014, 6500 if you are 50 or older'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'however, if you have losses, or you want to pay taxes, you can convert a regular ira to a roth'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and there is no limit on that'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i maintain a brokerage account seperate from the IRA/401k, so the amount i invest won't be changing, just where it goes... and i'm not yet to the point that i need to have a serious discussion with a tax/investment professional'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and, with no offense meant, i won't be coming to aard for that discussion ;)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be nice to have sufficient money to invest'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'according to the same article though there is still a cutoff for income on ROTH contributions phasing out between 181k and 191k'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'nods, it certainly makes life suck less'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you might do better on aard, actually'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'you might be surprised who is on this site!'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but as I said its a motley fool article so take any advice it gives you with a grain of salt the size of new hampshire'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i might be, but i would rather have the discussion with someone i can check the background of'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Theoretical theories.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so if i talk to someone on aard, it's because we exchanged identities and i've found them worth it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'remmeber that free advice is worth what you pay for it :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paid advice is rarely worth paying for'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'advice is advice, not instructions or requirements'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'paid advice may or may not be worth what you paid for it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'll still make my own decision'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at <pretitle> Scars.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but free advice is always worth what you paid for it :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regardless'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'no way emm, the best advice I've ever gotten in life and business was free'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and the least helpful was paid for'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'n=1'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the free advice i get is rarely helpful, the paid advice i get is occasionally useless'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'perhaps you are miscalculating the value of advice'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but taking personal responsibility for your decisions is the best attitude'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'source of the advice matters :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'also you might be miscalculating what you are paying for the "free advice"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'free advice from family/friends... meh'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you have established a relationship with a mentor (say at work or something) you have actually paid for the advice.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'even if it is "free"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'over xmas at family, we were discussing "what is middle-class"...one cousin said when he was living in chicago, they had a household income of 400k and were middle-class'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i would call 400k in chicago lower upper class not upper middle class, but of course class definitions are arbitrary and subjective in the US'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wouldn't say they're arbitrary.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'different regions have different costs of living'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what axioms are they based on then hanslanda?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it foolish to rely on a pension pot for retirement'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not authoritatively-defined'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what's the difference between middle class and upper class?  one is able to consume luxury goods at will and one isn't? '
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tiger: 401k and IRA aren't pension pots, they're savings accounts...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i realize this isn't going to be some "always true" statement or something found in a book... but a good friend of mine once told me that the difference between middle class and upper class was not income, but the ability to accumulate wealth... middle class doesn't accumulate wealth, the upper class does'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so thats how i define it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'noone is able to consume luxury goods at will'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'zuckerberg can do a pretty good job of it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'abe, they're more like brokerage accounts, but yeah'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'that's an interesting shot at it scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it depends on what you consider luxury goods abelinc :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i kind of like that approach to it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'can he buy a new lear every week?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'buying a luxury cruise liner, mid-sized islands, small countries...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '400k gross income burning 400k on non-wealth building things (regardless of how it's justified) will always see themselves as the working middle class'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he could do that, yes emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but if you chose to live off of 150k, and invest/save the rest and see your personal wealth grow, you may find that you're able to use your money to make more money and no longer be beholden to a job.. which seems pretty sweet to me'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i guess we are blessed enough to be considered upper class but I still wear my 10 year old clothes and shop the clearance rack'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody in the real world earns $150k a year'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'what's the real world?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You raise your eyebrow at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's a pretty funny claim'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i guess it's not the world i live in'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'define "real world" and "earns" and "$150k"'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'my guess is half the people on debate history earn that, tiger'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'certainly not what Tigernuts thinks it is.  There are entire job-hunting sites dedicated to people who make that much.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're in what, the top 8% of earners? 6?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't, but I almost did for awhile before I stopped working and started law school'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and I hope to again soon.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i don't make it, but i'm around 5-7 years from it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'gross, that is'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I'll guess that less than half of debate earns 150K, but it takes aobut 345K to get in the top 1% so 150k doesn't quite put you out of the real world.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '81st percentile for 150k married'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unmarried, emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'lots of us are married'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'married, single income here'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not on here in a married context'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not?!?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'are we talking about individual income or household?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You peer intently at Archimedes Eureka.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and besides, that shouldn't matter. Why the hell government treats married peopel different is a crime'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think im always in a married context'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'well i'll agree the 'love tax' on two working professionals getting married is total bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the marriage penalty is why marriage rates are tanking lately.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yeah, that seems a bit overly simplistic'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its harder than that though'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taking marriage out of government and taxes would solve a lot of the gayt marriage issues too'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'do you balance individual income earners versus 2 income earners?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only a little.  I mean, you have gay couples, but generally across the board people are finding that getting married < living together.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'do you balance individual income earners who have to pay for all of their services vs one who has a stay at home spouse?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'deductions get messy...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'should one get a break for having dependents?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no breaks, no deductions'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for anything'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'meh, as soon as people go this route i'd perfer a consumption tax'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it makes no sense to me that two working professionals pay higher taxes if they get married than if they don't get married.  bad incentive.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have nothing against consumption tax'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I don't think we should tax people extra because they have TB'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if everyone was forced to file seperately, then a married couple could distribute the income of one spouse to both spouses (through completely legal means) and pay less in taxes than an individual who made the same amount'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'TB?'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is literally NO way to make it fair for everyone'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'tuberculosis.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'tuberculosis = consumption'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'oh'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the reference is lost on me...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'consumption is a broad diagnosis which covered many things, but most often TB'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'ah, thanks'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'in which case i've sort of ruined a fairly highbrow joke :S  my bad'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'culturate yourself'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'anyway whether there is a "marriage tax" or a "marraige benefit" is not looking at the problem closely enough'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'for high earners, it's a tax plain and simple'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'tax incentives create tax loopholes, for better or worse... a simpler tax code would be ideal, but that takes power away from the government, which just isn't going to happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'marriage is a tax at all income levels, Kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and more importantly, it takes power away from those who know about the secret loopholes'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i feel like we're very much saying the same thing abe ;)'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You grin evilly.
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the rest of us mere mortals, saving for a pension is a pipe dream'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, saving for a pension you think is worthwhile is.  You can always save a little bit, and you can always trim something back if you aren't currently saving anything.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing i can try and do is get somewhere to live, and leverage that if i need to in old age'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and you can work to better yourself or manage your finances better...'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be pensioned off on disability, so fat chance of that, and remember this is the UK'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the sooner you start, the less you can get away with socking away at a time.  Also, if you save in small increments at a more frequent rate rather than one big one at a less-frequent rate, you get psychological benefits as well.'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not worth it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for many people in the UK, welfare or prison are actually career opportunities'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if the choice is prison or starvation prison doesn't sound so bad'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is only optimism and fear of scorn that keeps more from going that rout'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when people lose everything and have nothing else to lose, they lose it'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thus i will have no sympathy if you high earners with your tax loopholes get fucked in arse by the system you are propping up'
T3/r7/2014-01-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is Matt Drudge trying to hoax Hilary into declaring for 2016, or is it a genuine advert he's running?'
T3/r7/2014-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Toyota, Honda, and Nissan cars erequipped with Garmin and Tomtom satnavs have been stealing trip data from cars and refuse to delete it'
T3/r7/2014-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, US airforce helicopter crashes 20 miles from my house onto a nature reserve, killing 4 men and polluting the environment'
T3/r7/2014-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good news: http://wearechange.org/change-member-beats-federal-reserve-court/'
T3/r7/2014-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Expect considerable Russian anger as it has now been discovered that a US financed NGO has bee orchestrating the Kiev anti-Russia pro-EU protests'
T3/r7/2014-01-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more goon news! US District Judge Edmond Chang ruled Chicago's ban on licensed gun stores is unconstitutional'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/what-catastrophe_773268.html?page=1'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yahoo got caught serving advertising that installed a botnet on client computers that mined bitcoins for the writers'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'is that illegal?'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'technically, but they won't get in trouble for it'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'google tried to blacklist drudgereport and a few other non-left leaning websites last year for infected adverts when it turned out they were provided by an advertising supplier owned by google'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same sort of thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'willing to believe incompetence rather than by design'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i liked the bitcoin bot net, first non-offensive virus i've seen in a while'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK chancellor looking at significantly raising the minimum wage. He always tends to consider my ideas a few months after i suggest them'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'You pay they get the profit.'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I suggest they double it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't need to double, 7.50gbp would be fine, and would be a 20% raise'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'speaking about drugs: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/swedish-minister-spreads-satire-marijuana-article-21448139'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's needed because the UK tax payer is basically subsidising companies to pay people small wages through tax-credits and welfare topup for low paid workers'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Sweden do have an issue with being run by a bunch of authoritarian lunatics'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'still you could expect them to do some back ground checks on what they're talking about'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'background*'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't be silly, they only run the country, why would they bother with silly pointless things like science'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(that's sarcasm, folks)'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both the US and the UK are guilty of the same'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I guess it's too close to the truth for being sarcasm. More like satire.'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i heard Obama's lot are restricting what wood buring stoves can be sold'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'our EPA is good at regulating things that don't effect them as the end user.'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see, now, i understand why they want to, but a method of doing it that didn't require trampling on peoples rights would be to create an "efficiency/green" rating scale A-F that is mandatory is provided with the literature/sales bumf, and offer a mail in rebate for A-rated stoves'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'the last time they did it, the costs of woodburning stoves went skyrocketing, and this time they are figuring in pellet stoves, so this should be an even more exciting bit or regulation'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder if it extends to kits'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'friend bought a high-efficiency norwegian design multi-fuel stove - have to say it's absolutely awesome'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what makes one kind of heat better than another'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on what you're heating'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what fuel you have available'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and how much it costs'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'multi-fuel stoves are awesome in rural habitat as a secondary source of heating where you have free or next-to-free fuel'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same stoves are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in a city'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK police were cleared today of shooting an unarmed man. A jury (WTF) found 8-2 in favour of a "lawful killing" verdict, thus proving that  regime agents are above the law'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'what was the unarmed man doing?'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'getting out of a taxi that 4 cars full of armed officers had just made a forced stop on'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I mean don't get me wrong, overuse of force gets me the wrong way too, but sometimes a guy had it coming.  You can be unarmed and choking someone to death :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''intelligence' claimed they he had just picked up a handgun from a friend, the shooting office claimed he had a gun in his hand. It was in fact a phone. Police later lied about him having a gun in his hand, then tried to cover up the lie'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'that sounds pretty police state fascist though.'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe it was a tragic error, but that should have been the verdict, not lawful killing'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typical police overreaction'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I mean I get that's not an easy job, and when you deal with criminals everyday you start to see the worst in people.'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when it happened last in 2011 it caused riots, worst seen since 1983'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but still, if you're going to carry around a lethal weapon, you've a responsibility for what happens as a result'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that works both ways, it should have been unlawful killing/corporate manslaughter'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'definitely seems unlawful killing to me, to say the least'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you force a black/white choice on the situation, chances are you're going to get it wrong'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it's a shame ranged non lethal weapons aren't very effective.  It'd be ideal if the cops had an option in the grey area to subdue someone effectively and quickly, so as not to error on the other side of caution'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no such thing as ranged non-lethal weapons'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'about the closest we've got are various types of knockout gas, and that doesn't work great outdoors and still can cause health issues'
T3/r7/2014-01-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shouldn't be necessary. if your justice and legal system were set up properly with the right laws and priorities, these situations would occur less'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and transformers was dark of the moon...no "side"'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's no dragons here'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hmm, they're not even the same color :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, VCR's rule.'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Heck yeah they do'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '58% of americans still own and use a VCR.'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'VCRs definitely have the upper hand when it comes to quality'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'never owned a vcr in my life!'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you poor soul....you should go get one!'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's fucked up, a dad actually hopes that his second son dies (first one died while tackling a suicide bomber).'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I tackled a suicide bomber once, but he was practicing.'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no shaheed for you!  Back of line!'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'roasted camel ?'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's arabic for martyr.'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I want some roasted camel.....'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, cabbage'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Chris Christie is such a fucking liar. He had a reputation already for being vindictive and underhand. Like -hell- did he know nothing about those deliberate road closures'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'do you prefer emotional science or the boring standard science?'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'boring'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'chris christie aka krispy kreme is a big fat fucking liar'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'is this the fact channel?'
T3/r7/2014-01-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'here. '
T3/r7/2014-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't here, but kojiro is right'
T3/r7/2014-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the news, debate channel?'
T3/r7/2014-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK government actively trying to strangle the supply of housing, first through selling off state housing stock off, now strangling money going to local council housing associations who provide social housing'
T3/r7/2014-01-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm, prairie oysters'
T3/r7/2014-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So what Daily Blessing reward gives out random exp?'
T3/r7/2014-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mischan'
T3/r7/2014-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moabyss: 'off'
T3/r7/2014-01-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flidjit: ''ON!''
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should i complain to my landlord about the maintenance guy who left a device for burning marijuana in my apartment when he let pest control in to spray, or some other course of action?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give it back to him?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts the landlord probably would do that anyways'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is he a good/reliable maintenance guy?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts well, he did let pest control in pretty effectively. i dunno about his other skills'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had dealings with him before?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'nope.'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you likely to in the future?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'depends on if my landlord identifies me as the one who complained?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'if so , he might come in and trash my apartment sometime, sure'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he hasn't caused you problems, why complain?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts if you went to yosemite or yellowstone park, and left trash behind.... it would make other visitors' visits less pleasant'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd still give him the benefit of the doubt'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'in my case, he wasnt a guest, he was an employee of my landlord, he had no business leaving trash in my apartment.'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or just chuck it out'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'well, it'd be better to sell it before chucking it out ... it's got little ornamental silver designs electroplated on it'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'its too bad must of the drug users i know use oxy, xanax, or meth rather than marijuana or i could ask someone how much it probably cost.'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's your call, if it's someone i'm likely to have to deal with again, i'd give them a chance and go easy on them'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh, well i havent even met them face to face yet.'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i just see them riding around the property on the little golf karts every so often'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could always keep hold of it til you bump into him again'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: ''again' ... reading comprehension -1'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bump into doesn't necessarily mean in person in this context'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh i know who i can ask ^_^;; that chick that has a headshop will be able to tell me what they cost.'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would the value matter?'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crazy headlines, FBI drops upholding the law from their mission statement, Republicans website drops opposition to amnesty, and reports of Obama marriage on the rocks'
T3/r7/2014-01-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently USA testing crop-harming biological weapons in Japan, Taiwan, and on the US mainland in 1961/62'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YqIwaiMt08w'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Fat Bully Christie is getting some Fed attention for spending $25million of federal aid given in the advent of Hurricane Sandy on advertisements for tourism'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it includes when you used energy and at what rate, along with what devices used the most'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, just another way they're trying to screw more money out of people and micromanage their lives'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just amused me because the Uk are always the poor suckers that get to run test-case for the tyranny coming down the pike for you guys'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nebmaatre: 'but it's for the good of the planet, or something /sarc'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good of the balance sheets of the energy companies, and allows them to bring in the energy/carbon tax they've for so long wanted'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and hell, having more control of the serfs isn't a bad thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.zdnet.com/googles-reach-expands-into-your-home-more-via-3-2-billion-nest-acquisition-7000025109/'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Google just bought the main player in smart-home and smart-energy edvices'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh joy :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to get out of the fucking city, Suzie'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade deletes the line with the cusswords
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in economic news, median income in the US, adjusted with governments own figures, is now lower than in 1989. For med it's lower than 1974'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israeli witchfinder general was buried today'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's entirely possible his stroke/coma was caused by poisoning'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always a sorry day when an important terrorist dies'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'how to pronounce "damn" like the black people do?'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ~S.E Aqua~ Eskilade: 'dayumn?'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i mean.. um spell'
T3/r7/2014-01-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'sounds right:)'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china are making military plans to reclaim an island in the south china sea currently occupied by Philipino troops'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'sound like fun. (sarcasm)'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, sounds like a possible trigger for China vs USA'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd like that, wouldn't you'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing distracts from incompetent leadership and economic desolation like a war'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'How is it the police were not found guilty in the Kelly Thomas case? Something desperately wrong there'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'which one was that?'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'group of police beat an unarmed homeless man with learning difficulties to death'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6yaeD-E_MY&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in another case of police stupidity, a deaf oklahoma pensioner was beaten up by an officer for "not obeying orders" shouted at him from behind his car despite a big sign in the window saying "driver deaf"'
T3/r7/2014-01-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was also denied an interpreter during his entire detainment'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so Obama has announced he will now pass laws without congress using his pen and his telephone. Aren't you glad he has magical office equipment that lets him violate the constitution!'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I am confident that the quality of decisions will not go down'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be almost impossible'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'how is he passing laws without congress?'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he is choosing not to enforce parts of law, and he is using regulation to emulate laws. '
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does he plan to do? no idea'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'so executive orders?'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those are not executive orders'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he claims he can use executive orders to get things done, but that's not what executive orders are for'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'what are they for?'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for internal affairs of federal government, deciding how and to what degree laws will be enforced'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, a president cannot enact gun control via executive order, nor can he legalise pot'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'but he can chose to not enforce pot laws in states with medicinal or legalized?'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, actually he cannot'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(even though i'm a pot supporter)'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the constitution designates one of his key duties as being to ensure that the laws are faithfully executed'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by deliberately not enforcing the law, much like when he decided by executive order not to bring in the worker mandate for obamacare, he was in breach of the constitution'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he wanted states to be able to choose their own pot laws (which is what he is hinting) he should submit a bill to the parliament removing pot from the scheduled substance list'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are it'd pass'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/01/15/injured-mountain-biker-endures-seven-week-erection/'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(more appropriate for the level of this channel?)'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crumbs, forgot the other big news: US Supreme court decision to knock down net neutrality laws signs the death warrant for the free internet'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2014/01/15/jimmy-kimmel-savages-obamacare-and-uninformed-young-people-who-suppor'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Endtime: 'ah the estimable political judgement of Jimmy fucking Kimmel'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his sketches are spot on'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(on this)'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shit comedian though'
T3/r7/2014-01-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's certainly no George Carlin'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/15/senior-uk-defense-advisor-obama-is-clueless-about-what-he-wants-to-do-in-the-world.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'sounds like a good thing -- any time a US president has a clear idea about what they want to do to the rest of the world, disasters normally happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't put too much weight on this guys' opinion, he has a book coming out'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'someone with a book to sell, surely not!'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone with a book to sell makes inflammatory comments to get headlines, shock'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NSA collects 200 million text messages globally every day. Hands up anyone who is surprised any more?'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I am surprised'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, they do a lot more than that.  txtspooking is so childsplay compared to other things.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that it is only 200 million'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'they suck at reading then lol'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like they read them. they'll have supercomputers scan them for key phrases, but mostly they'll store them for later'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'compared against a watch list, for instance'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and mine them for behavioural intel'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that would be far less than 200 million inane lols and emoticons to read.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'if they read them so well half the us would be in jail'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'NSA says they don't operate on domestic soil.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, definitely.  The US also has never stopped doing whatever activities the Geneva Accord illegalized (torture, assassination, terrorism, etc), but in the political arena if there's no proof then it didn't happen.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, drugs trafficking to fund black ops, gun smuggling to banned groups etc'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'Im sure i watched a documenty telling the people of all the torture they do use on the public'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stuff the NSA, you've got police openly beating people to death and or shooting unarmed people'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not getting into trouble, both in the UK and in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'and Canada it happens here'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'its called the northern flush'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'they slowly move the crazys and Criminals further and further north'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'I see it every year'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't answer to that'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, more direct stuff Tiger.  We assassinate "bad guys" we can't touch politically or militarily.  We torture the shit out of the enemy.  We violate sovereign borders/spheres of influence at will.  The big caveat is that we do all this secretly and are sufficiently successful at it (and similarly fail when the other guy does it to us) that none of the players can actually come forth and complain.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, and that's why you're hated the world over, are headed for poverty, and are becoming a police state'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'It's actually proven that most of the world considers USA to be the terrorsts rather then the other way around and when another country gets fed up and retaliates the USA calles them the terrorests and get the public to belive them so they was goto war'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, with a bit of luck you'll get drawn into conflict with China over that island that the Phillipines nicked from them 40 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you really missed the point of what I said, Tiger.  The US is just as horrible as some forgotten backwater caribbean state.  Even the Haitians are in on this play, and they really can't do shit.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't disagree with that, though it wasn't always like that'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really since WW2'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'the reason china is mad is cause the US build a military base right next to them'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yeah, US would be mad if roles were reversed, i seem to recall some issue with Russia staging missiles in Cuba...'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes, it was.  It was actually a bit worse, really, because back then people really understood the meaning of privacy.  FDR, for example, was more of a playboy than Hugh Hefner or Larry Flynt but he didn't put it out in the public eye for all to see.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'difficult to be private these days with the technology'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really.  It's more that the attitudes in general have changed.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well both'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'not tech its the mantality '
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what do you do?'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'u can have tech but if no one wants to spy it would go another way completely but since we all have to watch are backs all the time it seems spying will be about'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you simply avoid the temptation to tell people about your shit, and simplify access to it.  It's far easier to control what everyone else knows about you if you don't have a slew of leak points.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's what made the Area 51 stuff such a genius move.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, if you want to avoid people knowing stuff, you have to abandon all technology'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'no its fine to know'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'its care what everybody knows all the time that really matters'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want privacy, you have to nip it in the bud at the government level'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as important is the supreme court striking down net neutrality laws'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this could lead to some carriers banning traffic from sites they don't like, and price differencials'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'differentials*'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that largely means less child porn and online virus warehouses.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll mean censorship'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll basically mean barriers going up across the internet'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'Whomever created viruses should be destroyed freaking usless making people life more difficult'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'have you actually looked at the internet lately?  Pretty much anything a person would want is behind a membership signup.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not so, Hans'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Well actually, The intelligence services create many viruses, and they are responsible for a great many security holes that allow viruses tow ork'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'like really u sell a person a computer to go online gaming and then all of a sudden boom thx for the 2gs Screw viruses'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about it, jaygod?'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'i got a computer once to play games online strictly'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'a lot of the internet is behind a signup, but if I want so sign-up for facebook right now it will download the same speed as google plus, hopeful my internet provider will leave it that way.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'download one game that was beeing advertised that week boom done 1 week fried computer'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so with the net neutrality gone, conceivably they could charge google a premium to transmit their data across their network'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they don't leave it that way currently.  Throttling, as an example.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'oh dont worry about it now I know my way around LOL'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'but just like that a virus cost me 2gs and for what purpuose>'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'none simply to fuck with someones life. that is basicly the same as spying'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what governments do, Jaygod'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck with people's lives and spy'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and bleed them dry'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'not just goverment I knew people back in high school that creating them was fun just to fuck with people'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'no purpose nothing it was simply the mantaility'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'thats what we need to change the way we think'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you mean that people will now lay down and be rogered by the people that are supposed to be working for them, then yes, i agree'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: '99% of people in goverment over 45 need to step down and back away and let room for uncorrupted youngers to take over'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hah, uncorrupted youngers...'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably need 90% of government to be permanently removed, the remaining 10% replaced with patriots'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I think there are also corrupt people onder 45.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'naa they been there before i was a kic'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'patriots are too valuable, I'd go with scuds.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'kid'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'im 30'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'so thats a long time i've been seeing there faces'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wish you'd get rid of Feinstein and McCain'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'dont worry we do 2'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll get in again'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'some way of getting primary challengers would help, good democrats to replace weak one, good republicans to replace weak ones.  You have to vote against your political leanings sometimes to vote for a good canidate.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'F that'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'not 2 u malkar'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've got sufficiently brainwashed and/or unforgivably stupid people to always vote them back in'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'I think its all rigged cause I dont know one person in my town that voted for them'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the house seats should be diversified across all measures--sex, race, economic status...'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't guarantee that, Hans'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '90% of the people you know are all-out liars.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hold your nose and vote tea party :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes, they are.  Statistics don't lie, Jaygod.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'Yes they do, Hans.  It's all about the context/style of analysis done with numbers.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'I can make u statics from nothing 2 and vote myself jaygod lol'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'also, everybody is more willing to lie when they feel they can get away with it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'cause someone told u this is how the voting went '
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's noticable that Obama's mob has been trying to overturn voter id laws passed in the states to try and combat voter fraud'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'obama is still kenndys'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'projectveritas.com has uncovered institutionalised voter fraud, most of it from democrat sources'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really, they've been doing that since GWH Bush.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'and to combat certain people from voting :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always in lobby groups/activist groups, just sufficient distance away from the party that they can get away with it'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'Well ur not alloud to tell them therer beeing bad lol'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hell, before the gigantic scandal broke, a democrat-funded welfare group was advising pimps how to avoid paying taxes on their child prostitutes.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'one idiot who works for Acorn doesn't mean there is a broad scandal.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is NOT restricted to one idiot in Acorn'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if it was just one idiot, ACORN would not have exploded.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was a whole tranch of NGO's in Texas alone that were in on abusing obamacare navigator role to leverage democrat votes'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'multiple people have been fired'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we had democrats signing up whole graveyards to get people voted in.'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jaygod: 'ya i heard about that'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should need to be on the voter roll (registered) and turn up with your voting card and photo id to vote'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, illegal immigrants should not have a right to vote'
T3/r7/2014-01-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigrants shouldn't have a right to vote period, unless they have permanent right to stay'
T3/r7/2014-01-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fruitless but nevertheless true: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bvWQuRf2Ig4'
T3/r7/2014-01-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-5 '
T3/r7/2014-01-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://wearechange.org/breaking-news-adam-kokesh-facing-7-years-sentenced-2-years-probation/'
T3/r7/2014-01-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kokesh escapes jail for the trumped up gun charges the feds tried to pull'
T3/r7/2014-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A new report shows that 64 percent of Chinese millionaires have either emigrated or plan to emigratetaking their spending and fortunes with them. The United States is their favorite destination.'
T3/r7/2014-01-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1/3 of chinese millionaires with $16 million or more have already left China.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chinese millionaires fleeing china isn't surprising or relevent'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what an awesome news story title: "Obama: one if by land, two if by sea, three if by metadata"'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ObamaCare, says employer-sponsored health plans must not discriminate in favor of highly compensated individuals with respect to either eligibility or benefits, and provides a tax break for employer-sponsored insurance, while demanding employers not provide better coverage to higher-paid employees.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the gift to communism that keeps on giving'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why the future doesn't need you: http://tinyurl.com/o2dw4na'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Wait while I put on my shades'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try google glasses, it'll make you feel much trendier'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but really, what did you think was going to happen with such an obamacare provision? It's designed to strongarm employers into ditching healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://rt.com/usa/congress-tpp-corporate-donations-802/'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, in an interview Obama blames his falling approval ratings on "racism"'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-19/obama-says-racial-animus-may-soften-support-new-yorker-reports.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moabyss: 'Doesn't really sound too farfetched'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's extremely unlikely'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if anything, racism would give a positive discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'doesnt matter if ur black white red or blue U suck U suck leave race outa it'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'did racism increase recently? If not, then it wouldn't be the reason for falling approval...'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, abe'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'race is just another thing that these types of people leverage to further their political agenda'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no different to gender, age, sexual orientation'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'yeah most time strickly an excuse'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/195899-feinstein-metadata-program-here-to-stay'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dianne Feinstein is like a pantomime witch. Any chances of unseating her in 2014?'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'None'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not unless she gets primaried'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not? oh, she's from California and people are braindead there'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no options for recall?'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'they see that D and it's over'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you can't recall us congress members tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's with the love affair with D in California?'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they can only be removed from office by losing an election or being impeached by their own body'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't understand how any of that works, Emm, not from round there'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and she's not up for election?'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'she is up for election'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but her district is safe'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't imagine her living in black ghetto'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'only another dem could taker her down in a primary challenge, which isn't likely to happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that comment implies racism i think tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'They actually send people to college in California, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try demography, emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if democrats were only popular with african americans they would not be a serious party'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they enjoy heavy support from black and latino, it's the only reason they are a serious party'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as well as trendy greens and the trendy anti-whatever-we're-supporting-fake-rights-for group of the year'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'that's really not true, in reality the black and latino vote is a very small compared to their population'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not any more'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'old white people vote in droves and everyone else has to be poked and prodded before they'll even think about it'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weight of numbers'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you suffer there exactly the same issue we do in the UK facing socialist holocaust thanks to the gravity effect of voting for self-interest'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '61% of likely democratic voters are white tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'compared to the opposing figures?'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'while that is not quite the monochrome 90% of the republicans, it is still hard to say that they don't need their white voters'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'you're acting like voting in your own self interest is new or anything but universal.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or anything other than rational harperon'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's more than sufficient to support the argument, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an issue when it leads to a totally broken system, Harperon'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would really hate to think that anyone knowingly votes against their own self interest'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many people vote to what would be in their long term interests, or in the interests of the wider community'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is no way you can prove that tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't need proving, it's self evident that if you vote for something that is going to destroy your country for a bit of short-term personal benefit, that's a bad choice'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the first part is still voting in their own interests so I don't contest that some have a longer view than others'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but the second is pure speculation, or pure nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing speculative about any of it'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'I would argue that voting for the good of the greater community and just a different form of voting in your own sel interest more often than not'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'again you have absolutely no way to prove that anyone in the history of the world has ever voted against their own interest in favor of a wider community interest.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'and-<'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and socrates would say no one is capable of such a thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't understand or disagree then you're deliberately trying to conflate immediate and short term again with long term interest'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'It is neither, it is brainwashing by the biggest wealthiest individuals in the coutry preying on people like Tigernuts who know no better and are subject to believing such stupidity'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Emm nods at Arnica.
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that I could believe'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're going try to be insulting, at least have the grace to spell correctly'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Sorry Tigger nuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd rather vote on ideology than cos i'll get an obamaphone'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you know for someone who is supposidly from UK you sure spend a lot more time obama bashing than brown bashing or whoever your PM is now'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our respected countries are governed by the same people'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i though you'd realised this'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'The Elite'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'just everyone else I know from UK who bitches about politics bitches primarily about their own politicians not ours.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or if they do bitch about ours it is only in how they influence theirs'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'influence?'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try "dictate"'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'GHCQ only gets away with spying on UK residents because of the NSA'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we only get blown up because of US foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we only have financial crisis because of the deregulation of the american financial markets'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'UK has been spying on their own citizens since before there was a US, much less a NSA'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the most part, the UK spies on it's enemies. We don't give them even remotely enough funding to spy on our own'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'US spies on everyone but so do alot of the countrys'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the agreement was that the NSA would spy on UK citizens because it was legal that way'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well I have better things to do than argue with a brick wall.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'later.'
T3/r7/2014-01-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all in all, you're just another brick in it'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRdmrAj9YGs&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suckers'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, hacker David Kennedy shows how to hack HealthCare.gov and get personal details of 70,000 enrollees in about 4 minutes using nothing more than a browser with a few plugins'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/19/hacking-expert-david-kennedy-says-he-cracked-healt'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'So the malware against Target et al was writen by a 17yo, he wasn't using his powers for good.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where was he from?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'most likely he downloaded most of it from somewhere, so are you really sure it was really written by him?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'ukraine I think'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nice, EU candidate'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I have no proof he did anything, only mentioning what I saw on the news.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should come to expect this sort of theft'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'as our lovely horde of ex-botters shows, really dumb people can do rather impressive things with someone else's hammer.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'every bit of 'electronic' transaction is russian roulette'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'our gov'ts would likely love an all electric transaction world, be harder to hide cash sales we aren't paying taxes on.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they want to control it all, which is as good a reason as any not to let them have it'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'who wouldn't love a sales tax on private sales'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cash sales are tiny'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments lose revenue orders of magnitude larger from corporate dodginess'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which they're not interested in, because the people committing the fraud ARE the government, or have bought them, or will be them, or used to be them'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hard to have your credit card details stolen if you're paying in cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you actually HAVE a credit card, not that difficult.  Didn't Mastercard get hacked not too long ago?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i had bad activity on my card courtesy of Paypal'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'one bad piece of publicity on a cc company's part to raise Anonymous's ire, and all our cards are probably toast.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no such thing as uncrackable or unhackable, but all this pointless consumerism and trendy convenience just exacerbates the risk, it's like sleeping around seedy whore houses and nightclubs without protection then wondering why you catch stuff'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Hey there's nothing wrong with seedy nightclubs!'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence my next mobile phone is a nokia 3310 :-)'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not until condom quality starts to deteriorate.  The last trojan product I saw advertised touted the fact it was 40% thinner.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's nearly half the condom gone, and you haven't even stuck it in your wallet yet!'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and as for facebook, people who advertise their entire lives on facebook deserve to be robbed'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps we can kill two birds with one stone, here - we have pollution, energy, and climate issues caused by excessive population and we have privacy and liberty issues exacerbated by trendy pointless garbage tech users, combine the two - euthenise all facebook users and save the planet'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Or just nuke india.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if we nuked india, we'd probably have to nuke our Pakistani allies as well.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Why?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'They hate eachother. They'll thank you.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'to prevent them from raiding the leftovers.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'It'll be irradiated wasteland, who cares. :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'I like that we're disucssing genocide like it's nothing special.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would you want to nuke India?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than because of Oracle'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Lots of people in a small space, + overcrowded planet.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are they the problem?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Best bang for you.. well, bang.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'India is an extremely fertile and productive country, so i disagree'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Unless apparent, I'm not entirely serious. :D'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Most of the pictures I see from india are dusty people who make a living by scooping up poop.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'That might not be representative of the country though.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's still an impoverished country, but it's fertile and productive'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also the world's largest democracy'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'So.. china?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Well nuking small countries won't get you anywhere, will it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure, just use small nukes'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Screw it. Go for the US and get it over with.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Big Trouble in Little China could be a fable about indian terrorism.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'It'll get us down a few % atleast.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd go "LA, New York, DC", Saudi Arabia, Turkey, China, then Germany'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Germany?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'What about all the cars?'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure, Germany'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't hate on the germans just because they know how to work money better than you.'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about them? they have factories all around the world'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'But.. Beer! Oktoberfest!'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Words like Krankelwagen!'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Germany's big problem economically is that they're in the middle of the EU'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i think the threat of authoritarian corporatist government is far worse than any problem, real or otherwise, from overpopulation or climate change'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this doesn't look happy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPsOopzp7e4&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-01-elderly.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i knew it!'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'self evident'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i hated to learn history in school because i was afraid that it would fill my brain with useless crap'
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'mostly does lots of lies '
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'mostly does lots of lies '
T3/r7/2014-01-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'oops'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bill Gates predicts an end to poverty in 20 years. What's he planning to do, kill them all?'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'Who's "them"?'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the people in poverty, i'd assume'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'Read Atlas Shrugged and try again'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't help'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMMGgQ1RFpc&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Why is Bill Gates morphing into Woody Allen?'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like the the US and it's Al-Quaida allies are racking up the pressure with some more selective and/or biased reporting of torture in Syria'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJmFEv6BHM0&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, US unemployment 37.2%, worst rate since 1978'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'cite sources.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://washingtonexaminer.com/wall-street-advisor-actual-unemployment-is-37.2-misery-index-worst-in-40-years/article/2542604'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'contains report from Bloomberg'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'it doesn't show how it derives said number - refuted.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those numbers are provided by the government'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'Again - can't verify calculation - refuted.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'No, it classes everyone who doesn't have a job as unemployed regardless as to whether they're looking for work, or not'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then your existence is refuted'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'which is a ridiculous argument'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'See, that's what I was lookign for - does it include children, elderly, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'also, does it include people who aren't "considered" US Citizens?  Ie - the illegal immigrants, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'hence, it's an invalid claim/number.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/unemployment-charts'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I doubt it includes children, but I bet it includes plenty of housewives who have run the numbers and decided that paying for daycare so that they can get a job to pay for daycare is a stupid idea.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'or househusbands :p'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'also, ad hominem is a great way to debate, good sir :P'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so is refuting everything you don't like the sound of'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'no, I want proof.  You're showing me people who have said arbitrary numbers.  I don't see any of the work behind it, so I can't verify the numbers for myself.  That's a valid request in any sort of debate schema.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd actually believe that number when it applies to all adults, regardless of whether they want work or not.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, that's the definition of unemployment'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I just disagree with their interpretation of that number.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'depends on what you're using it for -- usually, they just use it to refer to those who are actually trying to be employed'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, but those who are actually trying to be employed is not what is measured by the official U3 unemployment statistic, which is currently 6.7%'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'U3 excludes anyone who is long term unemployed, anyone who has given up looking, anyone who is underemployed, and anyone has entered the workforce but not found a job yet'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'U6 is probably the closest to what most people would accept as unemployed namely all adults not working who are looking for a job, and the current rate of  that is 13.1%'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that seems reasonable.'
T3/r7/2014-01-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the plus side, Nancy Reagan is still alive'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Terrible news! UK unemployment fell 164,000 in december to 7.1%'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=MLHhGVVbSZQ&list=PLAzaFFdHVj58GiTaYBQMiZTHgq7qGJJug'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'should old people cancel their driving license?'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zimzar: 'there should be a retesting for sure'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. what could be the test then? they CAN read signs...'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they are slower. thats it'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'how can you test it?'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zimzar: 'retaking the driving part'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they actually drive better than those newbies with 20 hrs lessons.. so that doesn't work'
T3/r7/2014-01-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zimzar: 'too general, everyones different'
T3/r7/2014-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/sean-long/cop-killer-communist-terrorist-pen-nightmarish-blueprint-socialist-usa#sthash.dVvL9Mda.dpuf'
T3/r7/2014-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, Dow Jones closed down 176 points ay 16297'
T3/r7/2014-01-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"alcohol does not kill brain cells" sounds like a decent argument for pot legalization.'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some fantastic news headlines today'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Soros Libs: Cutting Off NSA Will Imperil Cherished New Deal"'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Schumer Suggests Electoral Reform As Way to Lessen the Grip of the Tea Party'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama blames unpopularity on Limbaugh, Fox News for making him into a caricature'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in bad news, Canada bans imports of Irn Bru and Marmite'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It is a bit curious that someone as clever as Soros supports so many deluded liberals.'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and in good news, The Dow Jones is down 218 points, and the FTSE100 closed down 109'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it's not as though there aren't any sane ones'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Soros is a corporatist'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'With any luck, we'll have those early Chinese defaults in a week, that might give us an amusing February'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'For corporatists, freedom, liberty, free markets, free will are all sins'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Continuum taught me that corporations are evil.'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, it was right'
T3/r7/2014-01-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm beginning to lean towards Kokesh's plan, which is an orderly dissolving of the union'
T3/r7/2014-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'What do you call it when, if you're in government, you use the power of government to target your political opponents?'
T3/r7/2014-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/conservative-author-and-pundit-dinesh-dsouza-charged-in-campaign-finance-case/2014/01/23/69c67ee4-848a-11e3-bbe5-6a2a3141e3a9_story.html'
T3/r7/2014-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/01/23/conservative-activist-okeefe-claims-cuomo-targeting-his-group/'
T3/r7/2014-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/head-hollywood-conservative-group-irs-told-us-we-had-been-targeted'
T3/r7/2014-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, our socialist opposition wants to reintroduce a 50% tax band'
T3/r7/2014-01-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime in the UK, major bank imposes withdrawal limits, citing nosiness: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25861717'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds a bit screwed up, Hawaii looking to legalise/tax mary jane exports, but without legalising it for personal use'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://watchdog.org/125321/hawaii-marijuana-export/'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Gideon'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dabbil: '"Can you imagine factories that would be making Maui Wowie cookies" .. I guess, but I'd really rather not.'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, how long before the obama regime starts acting towards it's political enemies like Kim Jong Un did to his Uncle's entire family'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'silly question'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps when a seal team visits Tigernuts (although there are cheaper options to terminate pests)'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no seal teams left, they blew them all up after the bin laden raid'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides, the last seal team they sent to get me crashed just off the North Norfolk coast'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps MI5 or MI6 may relocate Tigernuts to (say) Syria'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'MI5 are only interested in training muslim terrorists to blow up the underground trains in order to create justification for foreign and domestic security policy'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'MI6 are too busy wearing womens clothing, killing each other and hiding the bodies inside sealed holdalls dumped in the bath'
T3/r7/2014-01-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now what should bake your noodles is the last two statements are based upon true events'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the latest poll, 63% of americans haev little or no confidence Obama will make the right decisions, and 51% thinking he is not a good leader'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those are probably still better scores than david cameron'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, New studies suggest a warming climate decreases storm activity and extreme weather'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nicely asks Tigernuts to be more quiet.
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'warming, cooling, more storms, less storms, it's all AGW.'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or maybe that was manmade climate change, as long as it is our fault and the UN can tax it'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all weather'
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Tinada person again...
T3/r7/2014-01-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our lot here are rubbish though, they're crowing about growth of 2.4%, neglecting to mention that once you strip money printing, population growth, and inflation manipulation out of the mix, it turns out we never came out of recession'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"North Dakota Cow Thief Is First American Arrested, Jailed With Drones Help"'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I thought drones used for law enforcement within the USA was a conspiracy theory?'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Russian Bank bans cash withdrawals'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not just the Russian bank.  The UK banking sector was doing it as well.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was only HSBC, and they weren't banning cash withdrawals so much as demanding paperwork for them'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i intend writing to my bank tomorrow and demanding to know if they have any plans to do similar'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they do, i'll be changing banks'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Tigernuts dislikes paperwork (and perhaps papertrails) where banking is concerned'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dislikes? bank has no right to know what i'm using my money for'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll happily give them notice of a large withdrawal such that they can organise there to be cash there, beyond that they can go swivel'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it should be pointed out that, if you deposit money in a bank, legally it is no longer yours'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they are merely assuring the NWO that any large paper-cash withdrawals are not being used for illegal or terrorist activities, and also protecting the senile from inopportune cash withdrawals'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you deposit money in a bank you become an uninsured creditor'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bank goes to the wall, chances are you will not get your money back'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not their job, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'use that argument to wiggle out of a binding contract - default on your debts '
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what argument?'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hrm, obtuse and clueless - likely not English'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure there is a safe place for money these days'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The CEO of BitInstant, a Bitcoin exchange, has been arrested at JFK airport and  charged with money laundering. Charlie Shrem, along with a co-conspirator, is accused of selling over $1 million in bitcoins to Silk Road users, who would then use them to buy drugs and other illicit items.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess the fbi didn't like that a) they were trying to use a currency they didn't control, and b) they were cutting into the fed's money laundering and drug-running business'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps the FBI threatened to arrest the CEOs of HSBC for handing out large cash withdrawals without paperwork'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fbi don't have jurasdiction here'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, it was an attempt post-Target breach to make sure you aren't playing sly with the loot.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in that case, BitCoin exchanges require to relocate to outside the USA jurisdictions'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are several perhaps many forms of currency other than "money": real-estate, stocks, bonds, debentures, derivatives, valuable metals, wholesale diamonds, rare stamps, valuable? art, and recently: Bitcoin'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't forget about cigarettes and bubblegum.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'retail diamonds are a scam'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'drugs are a form of currency -- not sure about the bubblegum though - not addictive'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'bubblegum is a form of currency popular among smugglers.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'to such a degree, in fact, that there's a bubblegum shoplifting epidemic.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'very few people see gum and go "hold on, what's in the package?"'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade does not speak that drug lingo - so bubblegum is merely bubblegum
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless there is a chemical process for producing hard drugs from bubblegum'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, x pieces of bubbleyum equates to, say, that $300 pair of sneakers you really wanted.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as though a posh store selling overpriced sneakers is going to accept bubblegum as payment'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they don't, but the professional shoplifter who will get them for you will.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the shoplifter is then left with the difficulty of how to launder bubblegum into hard cash'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'another form of alternative currency were those plastic bracelet thingies that were really popular with middle-schoolers.  They became a way to signify what kind of sexual act you wanted.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no difficulty, can't trace stolen gum.  Even if you could, nobody's going to think about doing so.'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as though the parents did not get a pamphlet on how to read what those bracelets are actually saying'
T3/r7/2014-01-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but if you imagined that a tubgirl may've sat on that gum, you'd likely not want to chew gum anymore'
T3/r7/2014-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, they banned a cycle safety tv ad here because the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet'
T3/r7/2014-01-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good news! Dow Jones down 200 points'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a good headline to hear: "Chief of Police Harassed by Feds, Placed on Leave After Signing Pledge to Uphold Constitution"'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'where did you read that?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.usaprepares.com/government-corruption-2/tsa-harasses-shane-harger-constitutional-chief-of-police-usaprpepares-com-instructor-chief-and-entire-olice-department-wrongfully-fired'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'is that "after" or "after and because of"'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be a video interview tonight'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hrm, an "entire-olice-department" '
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on his way to the conference he was grabbed by a federal agent'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a day after his return he was placed on leave and asked to disband his entire police department due to his "political affiliations"'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't discrimination based upon political offiliation against the law?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'not necessarily'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well technically it isn't a political affiliation anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, the House unamerican activities was entirely based on that surely?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'likewise in the UK there are banded organisation'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reaffirming your pledge which you swore upon taking the job isn't really an issue'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reaffirming your wedding vows isn't grounds for a divorce, for instance'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, probably not, but, for example, if you did that at a KKK meeting that would probably be a bad thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty obvious it's not the KKK'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I give an example'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless the KKK were popular, as in the 1930s'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, of course, everything is fine if everyone agrees with you'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you suggesting they are right to persecute him?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'devil is in the detail'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'oh, yes, it is!'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in this case, the detail is clear, it's political persecution'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'he's behind you!'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's cut and dry, the actors involved are well known to me'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the detail, then, is what the politics are'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the persecuted guy is a libertarian leaning constitutionalist'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'too lazy to visit that misspelt weblink, and Tigernuts was too lazy to provide an accurate concise informative synopsis'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'following the constitution an upholding your oath is diamettrically opposed to the agenda of the federal government'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so that's where the clash is'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and that is important -- although if you are honestly surprised that power of any form is being used to reinforce the position of those in power, then I am honestly surprised'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surprised, no. DOesn't make it right'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'oh, a libertarian, yeah, well, they should throw the book at him, because those guys are all nuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'w'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that opinion therefore makes you a communist scumbag?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or a Nazi jew killer?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no, you have it backwards'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, a jew killing nazi, i get it'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's because I am a communist scumbag that I have that opinion'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'cause, effect -- worth getting the two straight, in general.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, regardless of opinions, if the law gets followed, this guy will get an apology and the feds will get the book thrown at them'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Christian Jesus red-letter scripture advise against the swearing of any oaths -- USAmericans that take the oath of allegiance are likely to be cast into the lake of fire '
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that would be a shame, because, you'd loose a libertarian cause celebre'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'any way, on the cause and effect front, I am tired, so I am going to bed -- sleep well!'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope your dreams are not blighted by the cries of the oppressed, whose torment you support'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the new (or old) game in the USA is for crook officials to disregard the laws and to commit malfeasance'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'along with closing road bridges to punish political opponents, slapping questionable funding law suits on political opponents'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wrongly arresting sherriffs for doing their job, then having to pay compensation after a law suit'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'until there are sufficient penalties to castigate malfeasance, the crook officials are unlikely to be deterred from abusing the decent laws'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and using the IRS to persecute political opponents, massing your vote by voting with dead peoples votes, and turning a blind eye to illegal aliens voting while trying to overturn local laws that require photo id for voting'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a dirty business'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Abomination rhymes with Obamanation'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Ellen Degeneres rhymes with hell and degenerate'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is a naming conspiracy there'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything a bit more relevent and sensible to bring up, Zade, or are you in LSD mode?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "conniving choice" of names by the wicked and the perverts and the crooks in the public spotlight indicates a premeditated intent to abomination'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds suspiciously like bollocks'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"The King's Bollocks" - the name of an English pub -- but is there more "dastardly" folklore to be discerned from that suspicious choice of name'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whqt is wrong with marmite that Canada banned imports'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'additives that were banned in Canada'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while i might not agree with it, i would respect it, just the same way US should respect GMO bans elsewhere int he world'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least there is Vegemite (currently the better alternative to marmite)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay australian substandard version of marmite'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'taste Vegemite and you know that Vegemite is definitely not gay'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Vegemite is horrid tasting'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least Vegemite is better than scotts Haggis'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never had haggis'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're suggesting gays taste nice, or being gay tastes nice'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I had haggis once'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it tastes okay - but best not to think about what is in it'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'saying that Vegemite is so outright horrid tasting and healthy that Vegemite must be straight and honest  (not deceptive and gay)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so deceptive and gay things taste nice, that's what you're saying?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Marmite with those poisonous additives is obviously deceptive and gay'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't contain poisonous additives, is very tasty, and is good for you'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Canada banned marmite, so marmite is defective (and gay)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they banned it because it was fortified with vitamins'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"vitamins" are not "additives" in the usual sense '
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are if they are added'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, if you use the wrong words to describe products, you are likely to be misinformative and appear to be trolling, deceptive, (and gay)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you grumbling about now?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which government officials (names!) in Canada are responsible for banning food products fortified with vitamins'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'every bad law and or ruling is the result of (say) abominable and or clueless human(s)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or difference of ideology'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or greed'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'vitamine E is good for your cancer'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"banning vitamins" seems to be the work of terrorist moles'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while there is some evidence that pharmaceutical industry puts pressure on governments to inhibit the sale of vitamins, i don't think this is a conspiracy'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i heard that vitamins are best consumed with food that mother nature has put in them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'excessive vitamin E ingested by males may cause prostate problems later  - but that is their choice  (to be healthier now and perhaps suffer urinary difficulties later)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'almost all your food now is enhanced with vitimaans'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'but chuclit tastes good so nature doesn't know much'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'cuclate'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'chocolate..'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '200 iu of vitamin E daily is okay.  800 iu daily may risk prostate difficulties later'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'it's good for your lung cancer also'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything is bad for you, and good for you'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the elderly like chocolate as that keeps them regular'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the "x amount is bad for you" are correlations not causations anyway'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless they can prove a systematic, functional cause-effect, it's probably bollocks'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mid last century, a bottle of Vitamin C was banned in England without a prescription  (y/n)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can buy vitamin c in england without a prescription'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe these days, but cica 1970, nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe these days, but circa 1970, nope'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't prove or disprove that, before my time'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound likely, however'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU has been trying to ban vitamin and herbal supplements for ages, just like they're trying to ban all seeds that haven't been specifically approved by them'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because like Swalec, the EU are a bunch of commies and nazis'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite literally when it comes to the EU elite'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'banning (readily available extra) vitamins is an attempt to suppress vocal dissenters and ruin their health (since vocal dissenters are usually under more stress than the docile sheeple)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less about ruining health, more about control and money for pharmaceutical lobbyists'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'banning (readily available extra) vitamins is an attempt (by the already rich) to suppress new entrepreneurs that are not already rich (since the process of becoming rich is often extremely stressful)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it's not about money when it comes to force-medication of the entire public'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'banning (readily available extra) vitamins and herbals is an attempt (by the pharmaceutical industry) to suppress inexpensive health remedies (since a public without inexpensive vitamins and herbals is more likely to be diseased and suffering from a plethora of illnesses to be allegedly and incompetently treated by the excessively-priced pharmaceuticals)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that said, learning which vitamins and which herbals work inexpensively is (maybe) an expensive learning process) [the healthfood stores are happy though to sell (fairly-priced and overpriced) supplements, and at least the supplements are there]'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"force-medication of the entire population" is an abomination - if that is put into practie, that society is defective and deserves to be euthanised'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so you agree that birth control is a bad thing?'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(that said, the english genetics is extremely inferior)  <-- sb an xchan but the english empire-building likely ruined their genetics'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'birth-control is good -- prevents unwanted and unloved babies'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'birth-control is excellent -- plenty of decent heterosexual sex (as god intended), and less overpopulation'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'using wars as a method of population reduction is usually bad'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not if you do it right.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you kill everyone on the opposing side, there's nobody left to grow up with a driving hatred to bring you down.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the perversion of homosexuality is caused by excessive population stress (as indicated by studies of lab rats - when overpopulated in confined spaces)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'rubbish!'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'extremely accurate!!'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'from the perspective of god, decent variety in the decent heterosexual human race is preferred'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'given that we've only relatively recently discovered that over 40 (or was it 400?) species practice homosexuality, I'm not sure that's accurate.  We have no data from beyond the modern population figures that are obviously putting some sort of indirect population stress on a species.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'decent, in his case, is significantly less than 1%.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so one side wiping out the other side is a no-no -- too much genetic variety is lost'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lots of humans practice murder -- but murder is usually bad'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the fact that numerous species practice a perversion does not change the fact that a perversion is a perversion'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if it relieves stress, it's not a perversion.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'animal practice a lot of disgusting things -- god tolerates that, within reason '
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'murder relieves stress, yet murder is usually bad, perhaps a perversion'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'humans are an indigenous part of the animal kingdom, Zade.  EVERYTHING practiced by humanity, in every sphere you wish to bring up, is fully and robustly expressed elsewhere in the animal kingdom.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'rape murder and pillage relieves stress, yet rape murder and pillage is usually bad, perhaps a perversion'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'rape leads to species diversity (among koala bears)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'humans are supposed to be decent caretakers -- but in your view, if you believe that humans are to be like perverse pervert animals, there are several remedies  (evil grin)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'Humans all have potential for great good or evil or both'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are no blind chimpanzees, and they jack off all the time.  Strike one against parents.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'yes there is lol'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'British Emperialism led to the English being rich - the victims of British Empirialism are likely disgruntled and seeking revenge'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an example of a disgruntled: Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'monosex is okay when monosexual and or heterosexual thoughts and or "no thoughts" are entertained -- the first animals were likely asexual'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the first animals were a mix of both.  They ate DNA, after all.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and I don't mean that as a euphemism for swallowing a load.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'God likely tolerates monkeys entertaining themselves monomatically (the monkey is likely entertining heterosexual thoughts, or releving stress)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mostly they're just bored, kinda like humans.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but overcrowded monkeys are likely to be sick and perverted -- in which case diseases and predators come and euthanise the excess, preferably the killing off the perverts (leaving heterosexual breeding stock)'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the choice is to seek to be a decent heterosexual wise intelligent caretaker (likely human), or to be human animals managed by diseases and predators and wars and horrid nasty situations'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'use Doomsday! (Boom Boom!), that deadly comet cleanser (B-B-B-Boom-Boom!), and blast (perverted) humanity into the grave! (B-B-B-B-Boom!)  (loosely paraphrased from a 1950s jingle (likely Stan Freberg))'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'although the film "Knowing (predictions)", starring Nicholas Cage, was an interesting slant'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'Liberals, amirite.'
T3/r7/2014-01-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Angel Azaezel: 'bacon, discuss'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most telling headline i saw this morning was "Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been tapped to be U.N. special envoy for cities and climate change"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, the obtuse don't know the "telling" significance of that headline -- merely another jew getting a plumb job'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"special envoy for cities and climate change" sounds like a waste of taxpayers money, a job to coddle the rich quislings for bootlicking the party-line, or to fund sinister changes'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is a "jobs for the boys" move, to push an agenda that wouldn't be tolerated by anyone with interest for the wellbeing of the public'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not sure yet that a Bloomberg is a Kissinger'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's rich and part of that club, doesn't need to be. He is a hand not a head'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Henry Kissinger, accused by some of war crimes against humanity - nah, the victims were south american and or those that were not yet accredited civilised humans doing what the USA wanted'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but did Michael Bloomberg do anything as "dastardly" yet -- there are at least two sides to every story some say'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yet i heard there was an arsehole than banned large coca-cola servings in restaurants in NY'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'small steps, small steps'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'normally, any Mayor that did that deserves to be impeached and or kicked out of office fast -- but what are the replacement candidates the beleagured voters say'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a possible reason that Barrack Obame was elected was that the republican candidates all looked either incompetent and or crook (and that a large majority of voters despised the GW Bush repiblican administration and financial meltdown)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade requires to learn how to speak with more vitreole -- maybe listen to a few Rush Limbaugh shows for hints
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Republicans would do far better to get back to libertarian roots'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'won't happen while it's owned by big business and globalists though'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the globalists will kill the republican party - it's in their interests'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'kill the puppets - nah'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the globalists like playing puppetmaster .. unless the globalists are also puppets .. '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they can't kill off the libertarian threat, they might have to sacrifice the party'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is no Libertarian threat if you Tigernuts are anything to go by as an example of Libertarian'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not an example'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Terry Goodkind had a good handle on what socialism does'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with his books about the Old World empire'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Necroshine was a better threat (but incoherence, lack of training, the addiction difficulties, the paranoia, too twised inside -- was too dangerous to enable him)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'anybody with a name "Goodkind" is not to be trusted -- the surname reeks "fake and contrived" "distrust" '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'almost similar to the name "Goodfellows" but without the mafia connotations '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since Tigernuts is against socialism, and since Tigernuts recommends Terry Goodkind, that indicates the Terry Goodkind is likely a defective author slandering socialism'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'reminiscent of the Saberhagen "Berserker" scifi-series where "Good Life is that life which assists the Berserkers to kill off all life, (since life is bad)"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Brother Berserker" was somewhat grisly in some of the narrative'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whether Saberhagen was more grisly in some passages than HP Lovecraft or August Derleth, unsure - fond memories though .. ycch .. maybe not .. too grisly'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Good kind is the kind that likes to kill off kindness, especially socialist kindness ..."'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Terror Goodkind, er Terry ...'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the Berserker scifi-series, "Bad life was that life that resisted to be euthanised and elimiminated and or did not assist the berserkers to kill off life"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least there was no double-speak of "1984"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if there was, at least the BVerserkers were more "honest"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if there was double-speak, at least the Berserkers were more "honest"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the dialects er Daleks: "You will be exterminated"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and the Christian god: perhaps Rev 21:8'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what makes you think you have a right to exterminate others, Zade?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you are apparently acknowledging that right by querying that right  (foolish you)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the right to life?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have no right to exterminate others'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither does anyone'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the right to kill abominations'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have the right to defend yourself or your family'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it depends what you mean by "right" -- generally, this is a legal concept, and yes, some people do have the right to exterminate others'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that right to defence didn't ought to extend to exterminating anyone arbitrarily just because in your mind, whether clear or deluded, believe them to be an abomination'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'right isn't a legal concept'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, right'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, what is it then?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sits above laws'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, your lack of literacy likely misread what Zade posted, or your lack of honesty is attempting to add to what Zade posted'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a right can be revoked, it isn't a right, it's a privilege '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'sits above law, okay, well, that's a good clear defintion and the basis for a discussion'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have to talk in the basest, simplest of terms else Zade falls off the wagon'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "law" is a fiction promulgated by some humans'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it a fiction?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unusually, i understand what you're saying, but i don't agree'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aleister Crowley said "To do what thou wilt is the whole of the law"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Aleister Crowley was also a demon-worshipping nutjob'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"a right is anything i may get away with"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an ultimately twisted way of looking at it'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"whilst i am striking wickedly with fist, that is the law (of the fist)." '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and if there are no repercussions, ...'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'working on the basis that a right needs to be recognised by society, and defended by society'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given that society is actively dismantling those rights that were once held sacrisanct, i would agree with a modified form of your earlier comment: These days, rights are fiction'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'since rights are human constructs they must be fiction :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that follows, aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'houses are human constructs, they are not fiction'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a "right" is an abstraction,  so its reality is conditional.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are many things whose reality are conditional that are not fiction'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, rights are a social construct which sit outside of exact proof'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so are laws, that doesn't make them fiction'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'as a result of which, over time, they change, and some rights that we once held sacrosanct have disappeared'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but this is not necessarily a bad thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not inevitably, but in the vast majority of cases, is'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'for example, the right of a husband to all the property of their wife, or the right of property ownership of slaves'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i grant you that, and the clue is in the fact that for those rights to exist, they always and immediately contradict other rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(and) where did Zade say (and preferably prove) that Zade was right to exterminate others  (Zade 'd like to know, so Zade may exterminate others with a happy conscience)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as the right to various freedoms'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps somebody proved or at least realised that Zade was one or many of: a "good lifeform", a Berserker, a Dalek, a god (but there are lots of those), a vigilante, a scifi reader '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come back to the happy place, zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the right to various freedoms, such as the right to exterminate others when there are no repercussions '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that right, were it to exist, automatically violates freedom to life and liberty'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could argue therefore that such condition would never exist'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that is what Bush did'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that is what the USA does'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Blair, and Obama. Doesn't make it right'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'They're all war criminals'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and proud!'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is the fabled law of karma -- there may yet be repercussions!  (or maybe not)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so many loopholes to the law of karma, as though karma is selective'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you are under the mistaken impression that freedom (which happens to the same as liberty :)) is genetically acquired.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no such impression, aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yet you speak as if we should be free by virtue of the fact we exist. We cannot speak of freedom as an absolute, we can only speak of degrees of freedom. Nothing in the universe is completely free, everything constrains everything else.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'when you create freedom by fiat, all you can hope is that everyone agrees with you. There is no rule that says they must.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are stating something that I have already stated earlier, that rights exist only because they are agreed upon by society and defended by that society'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a sentient lifeform we get to make that determination'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'which is why democracy is a failure. There will always be people that will say, "Screw this, I am not going along with your program" and your freedom goes out of the door.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democracy in it's current form is a terrible failure'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you cannot have a rule that says that one is free to do this but not to do that. That is not freedom. So others are "free" to say you are not free and make it stick.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'humans obey (some) laws as a matter of convenience.  As soon as the laws become inconvenient, some humans disregard those laws  <-- that is from the law of nature: "To do what one wills to do, that is the whole of the law"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'merely calling someone "free" is far to granular to be useful, that's why rights are enumerated'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no problem with rights unless they conflict'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and when the corrupt make the laws, there is even less reason to respect those laws'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'rights come as part of a convention. There is no way to enforce such convention.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually there is a way to enforce sucha  convention'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'like the communists did, with mass murder'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure, but to enforce it you must constrain freedom.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, an unhelpful broadbrush statement'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if you wish to actively protect some rights, you have to give up other rights'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you took Zade's Aleister Crowly appproach, then yes, you couldn't enforce it'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'like the europeans did when they invaded the americas'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, at least you accept the fact that there is no such thing as absolute freedom.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was accepted a long time ago, aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts likely misread or disregarded the "no repercussions" rider'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this isn't about absolute freedom, this is about arbitrary and systematic dismantling of previously held rights that were considered central to a free and good society'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so, restricted freedom is a fantasy. Whatever it is it is not freedom.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and whether that is a good or a bad thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, one would think, Aphelion, that the aim is to live in a society that is free as possible while still being functional and happy'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the issue i have with "giving up some rights" is that it's always portrayed as a temporary fix to a temporary problem, but it turns into a permanent "fix" for an evolving problem'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'humans have not evolved enough for such society.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'meaning... once society gives up a right... it's gone forever'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have humans devolved in the last 100 years, Aphelion?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Zade approach is different to the Aleister Crowley approach (which was introduced to the debate to show up the flaws in the Tigernuts approach)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fundamentally failed, zade, since it is not my approach'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to hear Tigernuts talk about "laws" and "rights", you'd almost believe that was Tigernuts talking of the the Tigernuts approach'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they haven't devolved, they just haven't evolved.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if humans haven't devolved in the last 100 years, why have freedoms been removed?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'depends on your perspective... more freedom in some african countries today than there was 100 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'again, you act as if freedom is something that naturally belongs to humanity.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'more freedom in china today than 100 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"He was a Mongoloid, a Mongoloid, more devolved than you and me"  loosely from the Devo song'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more in some far less in others'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the USA there is less, in the UK there is less'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what's your point? even if you're right about the devolution of humans, and as a result we have fewer rights... yay? you win the internet?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you aren't gonna fix that'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yeah, there is less in the UK, not that we are all chained by the shackles of the free market'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the devolving point was not mine, someone argued that we have fewer rights because we have devolved'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we slave away at work for less money than our parents, while society becomes more and more unequal'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'that has not been my personal experience'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is because we are less free, swalec'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm much better off at my age than my parents were at my age + 10 years'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are in the minority now, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'exactly, we need to look at richer and better ways of moderating and controlling the influence of capitalism, so that we can enjoy the democracy that we deserve'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you know what's not the answer? undergrad degrees in anthropology'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'disagree with that, swalec, large scale democracy is not the answer'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you know what's not the ansewr? higher minimum wages'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you know what else isn't the answer? more taxes'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you want a societal shift, a cultural shift... that takes a long time'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'we're dealing with the end of the baby boomers leading the country'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"good socialism that assists assists the Berserker Zade to eliminate bad socialism and bad capitalism and bad etcetera"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no amount of socialism will solve it, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'clueless!'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's "solved" by the leaders in a society choosing to make it change'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and it's done through cultural shifts, not policy'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's not going to change, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when the leadership controls the culture, no such change will occur'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i think that as we see the baby boomers roll off into their graves and the next generation takes over those roles, we'll see a different shaping'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see scant hope of that'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Socialism is the answer, but what was the question." - a pun on "if God is the answer, what was the question."'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'that's because you're perpetually pessimistic and offer feel-good practically-impossible banter'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Seek ye first the kingdom of God and its justice, and all these things shall be added onto you". <-- Christian gospel propaganda'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i suppose if you have no idea what that's talking about, it may come across that way'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'or if you attempt to understand what that's saying by watching how self described christians behave'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Like what shall be added"  "There is the lake of fire"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you only describe me as pessimistic as a result of disagreeing with conception of the problem'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'your version of the problem offers only hopelessness as to it ever being solved'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you are right, then who is it, outside of the Boomer generation that holds the most power, and who is set to inherit that power the boomers have?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if people disagree as to the state of the problem, how can they agree to the solution?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i suppose i missed the part where you offered a solution'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(clueless (and blinded by his deceits) as to how to proceed)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the boomer generation will hand off power the next generation below them, i think that's generation X? i'll look'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dismantling global corporations and global entities, a return to local democracies where country level governments serve to protect rights and enforce free markets'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'emphasis of self-reliance and self-governance'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much the opposite of what we have now with reliance on state and centralised control and dictation of everything'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'not a fan of economic globalization, eh?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck no, economic globalization caused most of the problems we have today'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free markets" are predatory'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'then we disagree as to what the problem is - i think economic globalization has provided more benefit than good'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem is that capitalism globalised and democracy didn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that belief is madness'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the governance over global businesses will, and is, catching up'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I can't see the "localism" works now -- we all live in the same world, same sun and will disappear under the same waves'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalisation was going to cause massive problems unless done very very slowly'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrelevent, swalec'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'localism will crush the developing world'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i can't sign on to that'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'localism allows people with different opinions, ideals and dreams to co-exist without throttling each other'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'in some areas, Scars, yes, but there is a lot of push back from the global businesses so don't believe that this will necessarily happen'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'really, Tigernuts? I mean, surely only if they live in the same bits of the world'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, swalec, at least then you have the option to MOVE to the bit of the world where the people share your ideals'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you essentially want all of those irritatingly thick accented foreigners that showed up to the UK to steal all of those jobs to have never been provided that opportunity, correct?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we currently have one-size fits all, and it doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I don't want to move though, so that makes little sense'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the extreme rich learned that they were able to buy off the politicians and the judges and the academics and law enforcement and the military and the religions to permit the extreme rich to become richer and less rich to become poorer'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'short of the obvious infrastructure implications, swalec, i have no problems with immigration of people with similar beliefs and ideals'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, that always happened Zade, it's just that with a global system they are better at it'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, but if I am happy where I am living, and but everyone disagrees with me, I fail to see how this helps'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the extreme rich learned that they were able to buy off and effectively force the politicians and the judges and the academics and law enforcement and the military and the media and the religions to permit the extreme rich to become richer and less rich to become poorer'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'back when america was a melting pot, immigration helped shape us... now that we're no longer interested in "melting" we are turning into a marbled cake'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least you 'd have the option, swalec, you don't right now'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the US is not a melting pot, it's a lot of different substances bound by high pressure. When the pressure eases the groups move apart.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'hence the "back when" part'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'an the "turning into" part'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'immigration should never mean that you aren't expected to assimilate into the culture you moved into'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'there is no "back when" it always has been the same, as the number of groups increased so did the pressure. The US is one of the most racially polarized countries in the world.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yup, we definitely throw bananas at our sportsman'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't you, scars? tell that to the immigrants here'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'not sure what you tell ya, but you seem to more dislike the globalization of the work force than the globalization of businesses'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? what gave you that impression?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'of Global Enterprise Inc. had offices in London, Tokyo, and NYC... but didn't import workers, i don't think you'd care'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if*'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when immigrants arrive from inferior poverty-stricken tyranous-terror regimes, they most certainly are supposed to assimilate into the superior culture. Those immigrants are socially diseased and their culture is diseased.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the issue with that is Global Enterprises Inc. with it''
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the issue with that is Global Enterprises Inc. with it's offices in those places has a tendency to use the fact that tehy are global to circumvent rules and regulation that are there to protect the people of the individual countries'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'is this a complaint about using cheap labor?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that they are able to do so is a failing of democracy because it has been corrupted and bought off'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'which provdes you a cheap product?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a classic example is GM  in Mexico. Mexican workers must buy GM cars at retail.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'even though they work for GM.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so a difference in *perks* is the problem?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that we -have- a cheap product because of cheap labour is not a good outcome. The influx of cheap goods from China to here in the early 90s might have been seen as a "good thing" by many people and economists because it kept inflation down. In reality it destroyed the economy here'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but Canada is not affected by this rule. GM workers in Canada get the same break whey they buy GM as the US workers.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'weak example imo aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'really?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the difference in employee benefits across countries is normal'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and fine, and acceptable'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'not only does the Mexican GM work have to pay retail for the product but his pay is laughable compared to Candian and US workers doing the same work for the same company.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'at my previous company, our brazilian counterparts were gives something like 6 more holidays than we were'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'GM is paying what the market allows them to pay'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and here is the kicker, when the product comes to the US from Mexico, GM sells it at the same price as the US and Canadian products.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'with all due respect, Scars. Bullshit.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'do you think GM has magical control over the labor market demand for wages?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'are you unaware of how the price of labor is found?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'hint: it's not magic'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, pure GM, they are forced to underpay their workers and force them to pay higher prices for the products that they practically give away to other employees.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I really feel sorry for them.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what incentive does GM have to pay more than they have to?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'would you choose to pay more for a product, just because you should?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'OH NO! FUCK YOU CLEARANCE RACK! I only pay full price here!'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so you are saying that if they can rape the Mexican workers, more power to them. I get it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'GM is an example of the "free market" (that Tigernuts want to enforce)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'rape?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they pay them dirt'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'GM shows up, is able to employ sufficient labor at a price... how did that price get determined?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'furthermore, why does the price stay there?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ok, let's go along with your thinking. GM reaps a huge discount building cars in Mexico. Why don't they pass that to the consumer then? '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'because they lose money on US operations (not sure about CAN)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'because GM is a stock owned company who doesn't serve the customers, but serves its shareholders'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'GM is a terrible example of a localised free market, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'because GM is expected to increase its value, not operate as a nonprofit'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'GM is a better example of the globalised corporate corrupted market'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "free market" approach permits GM to do whatever GM does -- Tigernuts likely approves of GM since GM is doing the "free market" thing'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'there is really only one "free market" reason why wages would go up in GM... demand for the skill nets a price higher than GM is currently paying'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'at that point, GM must pay more'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so Mexico subsidies the consumer in the US and Canada. Now, explain why the US and Canadian workers are able to buy at a huge discount even though they work in an operation that loses money, while the Mexican counterpart pays retail even though his operation subsidizes the company. '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'that's a trivial example, but it's because that's an employee benefit, and benefits are there to attract talent... so its not there because GM doesn't need it to get the talent'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it might be trivial to you, it's not trivial to the Mexican workers.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's trivial because it's the same discussion as wages'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'wages + benefits are a package to attract talent, if you don't need such a big carrot to attract sufficient talent, you cut your costs'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'especially if you're expected to build shareholder value, and GM is'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if GM were a nonprofit, you would see them behave differently'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'apparently Tigernuts believes that "free market" in a nonglobal setting is going to encourage business owners to be more "socialistic"? - nope! "no socialism" say Tigernuts  -- then those business owners are going to act like GM - ruthless and greedy and whimsical'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, so if I am poor and need a job then I should be happy with getting pay at a discount of other workers with similar skills and work-type because they are better fed. I get it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'this isn't about poor, it's about skills'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if your skillset carries a low wage demand, then guess what?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so your claim is that the Mexican workers are not skilled.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'my claim is that their skillset carries a low wage demand, not that they are not skilled... that'd be ridiculous'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they are doing the same job as the US and Canadian workers, you cannot tell where the car was built because they produce the same thing, they sell at the same price. So how do you determine that the Mexican worker is less skilled?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aphelion, that us the "free market"  you are free to take a pittance job or refuse to take the job -- there is no socialism in the Tigernuts "free market" approach'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'teh wages in the US (no idea on CAN, again) are more of a function of the unions than the "free market" deciding what to pay them'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'aside from being Mexican, that is :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'for example, honda, in the US, pays people less to do the same job that people in detroit do'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'not because honda hates poor people, or whatever... but because honda is paying what they must to staff the factory'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and it happens to be at a 1/3 of the cost of what detroit is doing'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I doubt that. They all belong to the same union. I know for a fact that Nissan pays the same as Detroit.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Detroit is likely unionised'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and Honda would be run out of town if they tried to undercut the union.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'lol, as recent as 2 years ago, i knew that honda paid less'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'anyway, what I infer from what you are saying is that corporations have no need operate in a way that would be fair to both consumers and employees, as long as they make a profit, the blood by the wayside is justified.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you get governments paying these global companies vast sums of our cash in order for them to move the jobs to CHina'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts claps half-heartedly, clearly unimpressed.
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '"no need" - no, i'd disagree'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, whatever their "need" is, it's not compelling.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'corporations must give consideration to those who buy their product and those who product their product, but not to the point of sacrificing a profit (assuming they are expected to, not all corporations are)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if you don't, you have no one to sell to or no one to make your product'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but employees and consumers are a means to an end, and that end is making a profit'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't see anyone disagreeing with that'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though with global corporations, the end of profit tends to create an agenda of seeking a monopoly'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I was sure you would say that. You think that they have mandate to exist no matter how they accomplish that. If they use inferior parts while charging a premium for them is ok as long as they show a profit. If they screw their employees that is ok, as long as the show a profit.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and you can't see what that looks like.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'monopolies in the hands of the atate are bad enough, monopolies in the hands of corporations are fucking scary'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'The profits go to the few, while the blood flows from the many.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '"blood"... there it is again'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Exiled To Aphelion person again...
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yes, blood.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'nearly ever corporation wants to grow marketshare'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is what happens when you let corporations get so big, so global'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'are you asking them not to?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you could argue tht every corporation seeks to become a monopoly'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a legimate goal of government is to prevent that, scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'legitimage'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuckit, legitimate'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if you don't know how you're employer treats you, find a new job?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if you can't find a new job because no one will hire your skillset, then that's on you'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'agreed, tigernuts - but that doesn't prevent the aspiration'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'until "socialism" is forced upon GM in Mexico, GM shall likely do what GM does, pay a pittance to mexican workers -- "the mexicans are used to being exploited, and the mexicans should be grateful that GM is giving them any jobs at all" - a local "free market" success story - approved by the Tigernuts approach'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Fine, you think that corporations should squeeze everything they can out of their consumers and employees. You are entitled to your opinion.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't require socialism to fix that, zade'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, significant import taxes would stop it'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you think corporations exist to produce cheap goods and pay high wages, seemingly... you are entitled to your opinion'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i view the priority of a corporation to be 3/5 profit, 1/5 employees, 1/5 consumers'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should blame governments for letting corporations become monopolies and mistreating their workforce, but you should blame yourself and the the public at large for allowing them to get into that position'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so to say the have a mandate to do whatever they want, no... that's not what i'm saying'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a damn good reason i won't give money to MS, Apple or similar, and try to use small local producers wherever viable'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody is perfect, but at least i attempt to back up my idealogy with action'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also, when GM was invited into mexico under "free trade", the business agreement was that GM may exploit the mexican workers, and GM wants "the full pound of flesh" to quote from the shakespearean "Shylock"'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'no, on the contrary, I think they should put out a good product at a fair price, when they screw their workers and consumers to maintain a profit margin which their product does not deserve that's when I complain. If GM devoted itself to make the best car possible, it could justify its behavior somewhat. But it puts out mostly crap and premium prices.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i work for a financial institution that closely resembles a mutual company... the owners of the company ARE the customers... and, because of that, we have different priorities'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if the produce a crap product, eventually consumers will stop buying it'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wishful thinking, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not applicable in many markets'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'monopolies aside, yeah'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'in a competitive market, it works'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'in noncompetitive markets, it doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't solve the exploiting workers, and screwing local economies by going abroad'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure, you would think that. But what happens is that because GM charges a premium for their crap, the good auto makers can now price their products out of reach so the average consumer has to be content with the GM crap if it wants a car at all.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i think you misunderstand my descriptino of for-profit coorporations as though i'm all in favor of it... i hated working for a stock company, and moving to a nonstock company has been awesome'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, Tigernuts, according to Scars, that's justified. I am surprised he hasn't trotted out slave labor yet :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'just feed the workers and call that wages, that should up the profit margin.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yeah, you're not even listening to me at this point are you?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ah, but not in the US, because the US opposes slavery (or so they say), do it in Mexico.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'we know they are lesser people anyway.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yup, totally off the deep end here'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i understand what scars is saying, but it is an idealistic viewpoint that doesn't really translate to the real world'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure, one can be idealistic about treating workers like cattle.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'never said that'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'GM puts out crap because of deliberately planned assured obsolescence of crap -- the captive market where all automotive manufacturers put out crap assures the crap breaks down requiring the customers to buy more crap (the fact the car users are mangled and or die when the crap breaks is irrelevant to the profit margin and assured later sales)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'no, you didn't. But you justified the treatment of Mexican workers by GM. GM treats them like cattle.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so Scars, do you think Apple treating workers like cattle in China such that people can have pointless consumerist junk with built in obsolescence in the western world is a good thing?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what foxconn is doing in china is boarderline slavery, and its disgusting'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'So far the product they sell in China seems to be inferior, I hear a lot of complaints. Haven't a few phones blown up?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and what GM is doing for mexican workes is a goddamn all-expenses paid resort trip, compared to what foxconn does to their workers for apple'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ok, so since they are not as bad off as others, they shouldn't complain. I get it.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yup, didn't say that either'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I am just inferring.'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'doing a poor job of it'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free msrket in action -> no socialist regulations requiring automotive manufacturers to manufacture vehicles that never break down for at least thirty years and are simple to repair when they safely break down'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Foxconn are not alone, go to any boxshifter and a large swathe of their stuff is made in foreign slave factories'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'foxconn is the only one i'm aware of, but i don't find it difficult to believe that it happens elsewhere'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'good night :)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Socialism in action-> government dictated cars built to government decree by unmotivated, unskilled workers resulting in crap cars that always break down for a higher price'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'a regulated market, not a true free market, and not socialism, provide an ideal balance... the question is always "how regulated?" and thats an endless debate'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, that is the current "free market" in action'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both are accurate, neither are accurate'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a socialist model you're as likely to have regulations that limit the lifespan of a car, or limit it's reliability on the grounds that to do otherwise would put the workers out of a job as you are regulations that set a minimum'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only in a free market COULD such a condition occur that someone would produce a quality car that doesn't break down. In REALITY, market economics and people's stupidity dictate that such cars don't exist because people don't understand the value of things'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if i make widgets, i want people to continue to buy them'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a widget is not a car'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free market" in action-> industry dictated cars designed to enhance the profit margin, built by pittance-paid unmotivated unskilled workers, resulting in crap cars that always break down, and sold for a higher price when possible'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'might as well be'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is because of 'government meddling' that cars in this country are utterly unfixable by anyone except the vendor'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's worse, is they're now talking about tech to remote track, and remote kill your car'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'guess which industry is paying the government to meddle'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bloomberg's lot, mostly'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'funny, I thought that the EU had forced the car manufacturers to release enough technical data so that people other than the vendor could service them'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true, swalec'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'really'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'can you tell me why that is not true'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the computer diagnostics tools are provided solely by the vendors on a license basis'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'non-vendors pay through the nose to have access to the software'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and certainly Joe Public can't do squit all with em'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, for example, kwit-fit are not actually offering to perform manufacturers services of cars even though their website says they are?'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the opportunity, I'd rather have a car without all the tech, but built to modern quality'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you deliberately chose not to read what i said, Swalec'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Kwik-Fit can services of cars, though it may invalidate the warranty, and also they will pay to have access to the appropriate software tools'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have access to the information, nobody said it had to be free'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, that is not the type of 'meddling' i was referring to, i was referring to minimum MPG limits, maximum emissions limits etc'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'again, "free market" fixing the prices of the diagnostic tools'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd prefer a car with no computerisation'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gives me nothing but grief'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems the MPG did not change for at least 50 years - only recently are cars starting to "claim" improved MPG (and likely lying in he process)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are a bit better'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and i'd like emission controls on lawnmowers, mopeds, atvs, snowmobiles, snowshovel trucks, garbage trucks, etcetera '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and snowblowers'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and emission and noise controls on electric generators'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when there is a blackout, those electric generators used by the odd house are able to be heard from at least 600 feet'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and they likely smell too, but they are downwind'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when a rolls royce of the 1970s was running, there was no sound detectable inside the idling rolls royce -- even sounded quiet standing next to the rolls royce'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'quiet gasoline engines are possible'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is already a chemical technology that converts petrol directly into electricity '
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unsure whether the chemical technology handles the petroleum additives (without gumming up or breaking down)'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the chemical process is likely extremely efficient - unsure - likely bulky -- as working version seemed to occupy the whole side of a long building'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to make a quiet you must also make it extremely heavy, which screws over mileage and emissions'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make a car quiet, that is'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who wants a quit car, anyway? I want to hear it coming'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when there is a blackout, in zade's neighbourhood you must go without electricity because if he can't have electric, you can't, it's too noisy'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good news! dow jones down 120 points'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better news, dow jones down 150 points'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'ted talks suck'
T3/r7/2014-01-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Talk with Ted "bully bully" seances'
T3/r7/2014-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'aw man!  the beer delivery drone service has been grounded by the FAA.'
T3/r7/2014-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the superrich, chief among them that little shitbag Zuckerburg is briefing against anti-immigration people. They need immigration to fully bankrupt the country and transfer the rich to their superrich class'
T3/r7/2014-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ted Talk, from what i saw, propaganda talks hiding under a thin veneer of legitimate academia'
T3/r7/2014-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so who is going to win the Superbowl, the Seattle Lesbians, or the Denver Nazis?'
T3/r7/2014-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, lawmakers are considerring the return of firing squads and gas chambers as lethal injection drugs supplies are interupted'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Checked Exceptions are a good idea: discuss!'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'In addressing criticism of the Common Core national education standards, a panelist at the Center for American Progress (CAP), a liberal think tank, said critics were a 'tiny minority' who opposed standards altogether, which was unfair because 'the children belong to all of us.''
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The National Curriculum, an analogous country-wide program was introduced to the UK in 1988 and has led to massive grade inflation and unprecedented drops in the standard of achievement in UK schools'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good news! dow jones down 300pts'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xaeris peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts sends Xaeris across the dance floor.
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dow latest, down 325 points - can it fall below 15k by the end of the week?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who cares?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone with a pension?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'uhm i know lots of people with pensions who don't care about the dow'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone who follows the economy or geopolitics'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no one has a pension left now, the banks eat them all'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps they ought to :-)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are these the same people you know who don't know where Iraq is, or know where beef comes from?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not really tigernuts, the dow is not really a good indicator of much of anything.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's not strictly true is it? It's a measure of the value of listed companies'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes to the first no to the second'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suit yourself :-)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes which is not a good indicator for much of anything'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'everyone i know knows where beef comes from, most of them from first hand experience'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's a good thing that the dow is going down, it need to continue going down for about another 5000 points'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'on the other hand half my friends would be hard pressed to pick out asia on a globe much less iraq'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are your friends thick?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no just redneck'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rednecks are not evitably thick'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'isn't Iraq the capital of Asia? I read that somewhere once'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no many of them are actually really smart in their own fields or areas'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as an honorary redneck, i take offence at that'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but most of them have very little interest for anything not from mericu'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if they know where iraq is it is only because they went there in the military'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and given that half our elected officials couldn't find iraq on a map, i don't see why it is surprising that half my friends couldn't either'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's representative democracy for you'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like the WH is on the march early about the upcoming borrowing limit. "US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew has warned the US may default on its debt by the end of the month if Congress does not raise its borrowing limit."'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'despite that being a complete lie'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the only way the US defaults on its debts is if the president orders it'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which im pretty sure will never happen'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if he orders it when it's not necessary to default, isn't that technically an impeachable offence?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what is an impeachable offence?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything that violates his oath of office'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'congress could impeach the president because they think his shirt looks funny.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is absolutely no concept of impeachable offense in the US constitution or law.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, the beeb in the UK is pushing global banks cashless agenda: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26020231'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: '"The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'constitution article 2 section 4'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'article 1 section 3'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'so the senate could probably try impeaching the president for having a funny shirt, but hopefully the courts would throw it out'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or to put it another way an impeachable offense is anything that 218 congressemen say it is.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the house has to vote to impeach first'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'then the senate tries it'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a no physical-cash society --> all electronic --> "the mark of the beast" --> "where no man may trade except by the number of his name"'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'I'm guessing it's subject to judicial review, but I really don't know'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'at all'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Emm, you just said it wans't in the constitution either, so no offense, but I don't trust you as a source =p'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but the limit of punishment is removal from office'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct, zade, and i'm totally against it (though not for the biblical reason)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I didn't'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Emm!!!  The Legend Jaygod cheers her on.
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i said there is no concept of an impeachable offence'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'because we do not ever define what an impeachable offense is'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'and I quoted you the section of the constitution that defined an impeachable offence'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no you didn't'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's right, he did quote you the section that defined it'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you quoted the section that gives the procedure for trying impeachment'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'nowhere does that define WHAT an impeachable offense is'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'it limited it to "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors."'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'is jaywalking an impeachable offense?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'misdemeanors covers pretty much anything'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'I bet a court would say no, but I'm not a lawyer. Jaywalking doesn't sound like a high crime or misdemeanor to me'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I though sexual relations with interns was impeachable as well '
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is in fact a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions that have jaywalking laws'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'given the lack of the oxford comma, I'd say that the statement refers to "high misdemeanors"'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i concur'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which is a meaningless statement'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Izocinoc shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'misdemeanors are by definition lesser crimes'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as opposed to high crimes.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i.e. felonies'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'I think most legal matters get kind of silly in the end anyway. I don't really know what would happen if congress tried it, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'in any case, even if your interpretation is correct, impeachment is limited to transgressions of the law'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so how did clinton get impeached?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that Emm attempts to equate jaywalking to an impeachable offence indicates that Emm is not to be hired into any position of authority'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'purgery, wasn't it?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you say that often zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'he lied to congress under oath or something'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was Clapper'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in his impeachment hearing he did not disclose information to congress that he was not legally required to disclose'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Clapper and the Holder are the two with cast iron cases against them'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they impeached him for perjury, but there is absolutely no evidence that he committed it (which has nothing to do with why he was acquitted by the senate)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'all i was trying to do was make the point (somewhat dramatically) that an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the house says it is.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would signing off a law knowing it contravened the constitution constitute treason?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'strict, or two thirds? Just out of curiosity...'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and that if 66 senators agree he will be convicted'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's an upside-down statement, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'two thirds to convict in the senate'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'You are right that there is no judicial review, Emm. That's unfortunate.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'a law cannot contravene the constitution until the proper court says that it does, and this wouldn't happen till later TN, so no'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'treason generally involves an external party -- it's not the same as being a bit naught'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'simple majority to send the articles of impeachment to the senate from the house'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'naughty'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'thank you Emm, I was curious'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and I appreciate your input'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, WH chooses the supreme court judges, so that's a bit of a bollocksed system there'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no TN, it is the WH and not the incumbent which chooses, it's not quite the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but the supreme court has no say in impeachment matters (although the chief justice presides over the impeachment in the senate if the president is impeached)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although as we learned from ford the next president can pardon the impeached president.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how often can supreme court judges be named?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whenever one retires?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the US has quite a clever constitutional system'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'debate or dies'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's a surprise that it doesn't work better'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'money, swalec, corporations'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it did for a while, but it has been corrupted'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'aww thanks :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'mischannel'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't hold up much hope of you guys sorting it out'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that is true everywhere, the US system was designed to avoid that, at least to some extent, even if they didn't think in those terms'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'guess it just proves that good in theory and good in practice aren't necessarily the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure what i'd suggest if i was recasting my country's entire system of governance'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i'd certainly grab a US-style constitution and then go for local represenative democracies'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'btw i should probably attribute the comment about impeachable offense being whatever a majority of congress at a given moment says it is, that was gerald ford (while he was house minority leader)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK parliamentary system stopped working properly 100 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, I don't think that it's the governance that is the problem -- the issues is that massive disparity of wealth -- to address that, you need to address economics and the rules of ownership'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can first ban pacs'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take the money out of politics'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not without a constitutional amendment can we tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well or a change in staff at SCOTUS'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK i'd abolish party whips'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no, put the politics back into economics'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i think that economics and politics should be as seperated as church and state'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts prefers the anarchy of local government incompetence'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he does'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'tigernuts wants to drown his government'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'quite the opposite Emm--economics and politics are the same thing -- we've been taught to belive they are different'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't want to drown them, though i wouldn't be sad if they did'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you know -- the banks can do anything they want, because, well, they are in the private sector, so we shouldn't meddle'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who was it deregulated the banks states-side?'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think it was the capitalist ruling class TN...'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'tigernuts is the torry version of a tea partier (which is ironic if you think about it).'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Commmodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 was signed into law by Slick Willy'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't qualify as either of those, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the first time i was eligible to vote in 1997 i voted tory, and as a result, got a Labour goverment that immediately cut support to university students and imposed $5000 a year tuition fees'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(which was nice)'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never be a sperm donor, folks: http://wearechange.org/kansas-judge-demands-sperm-donor-pay-child-support/'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'people can sploodge wherever they want.'
T3/r7/2014-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'usually sperm-donors through proper clinics are untouchable as to child-support -- there were likely extenuating circumstances (and Tigernuts is trolling) '
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nighthaven: 'Obama's healthcare reform is an utter failure. '
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lolypop: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/opinions/wp/2014/02/04/scenes-from-a-militarized-america-iowa-family-terrorized//?print=1'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'truly disgusting'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm just waiting for a time when they pull this shit and it ends up with militarised police getting blown away'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Female Drivers in Saudi Arabia can now be charge with terrorism under Saudi law'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(meantime, western feminists are more concerned over how 'masculine' wikipedia is'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'I heard it's bad for their ovaries to be in the front seat'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feminists are a bit shit, really, aren't they?'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'much like everything else there are good ones and bad ones'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'popular british feminists are rubbish'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far more about ego and being louder and having more media airtime than anything to do with genuine discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of them end up in politics or newspaper columnists'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e, totally unsuited to the job'
T3/r7/2014-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know NOTHING i didn't even get UP this morning!'
T3/r7/2014-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you hear that the Muslim Brotherhood is getting our farmaid dollars now?'
T3/r7/2014-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zimzar: 'sounds about right'
T3/r7/2014-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they've got like 100 acres doing nothing here'
T3/r7/2014-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all hell's gonna break loose when they discover what Al qaeda's doing.'
T3/r7/2014-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'supreme court upheld the confiscation of 90 acres of land from it's owner under eminent demain for "economic development", giving it to a corporation who then never developed it'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'horrible story in the news about a nutjob cop pulling over an ambulance with a patient having a heart attack and then arresting the paramedics for "not pulling over"'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'driver found guilty of being black without due care and attention'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'been awhile since a visit to The Onion '
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The Onion is more "believable" than Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CBS news, not Onion'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hot on the tails of Obamacare, the UK's National Health Service are now openly planning to sell once private patient medical records to the highest bidder'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that (disclosure of medical records without patient permission) is illegal in Canada'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would have been here too, but apparently laws are meaningless these datys'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'likely misusing the loophole from the standard request that patients sign a blank form waiver permitting the medical staff to transmit medical information to "relevent" parties'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"selling to the highest bidder" does not seem "relevant" from the perspective of the patient'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it highlights the fact that the people coming to control this data are operating with profit motivations. THat is pretty relevent'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's being 'sold' to the public as being for the purposes of furthering science through 'big data''
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is clearly bollocks since you could do that with aggregated data with no personal data attached'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an irrelevant "relevant" if they are disregarding and breaking the law'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the law isn't relevent'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is law relevent when they can circumvent it, twist it, or outright ignore it at a whim?'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the blitish sheeple doo't complain effectively, or maybe they are muzzled blitish sheeple'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless Tigernuts misread and trolled the news'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'as if Tigernuts would misrepresent the news'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not if'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost snickers with Zade about their shared secret.
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even fuckwits like you could read the news and find it wasn't misrepresented or misreported in any way'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British media is also villifying the leaked phone call from US state department servant Victoria Nuland where in discussing the Ukraine situation with the US ambassador she says: "So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and have the UN help glue it and you know. Fuck the EU"'
T3/r7/2014-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are calling it a 'Gaff'. It wasn't a gaff, it was an honest statement'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is it that a 16yr old girl picturing a nude selfie of herself on twitter can be prosecuted for child pornography?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's an interesting one'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while i think it's a silly thing to do, hardly criminal'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'probably because the law doesn't say "pictures of yourself when you are younger do not count'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, criminal is what ever the law says it is'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that and that particular state has an anal age of majority'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah, there's no victim'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you may think it should not be, and you may be right'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's an interesting metaphysical point'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if there is no injured party how can there be a crime?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that is not required for something to be criminal'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't you think it should be?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'correctly -- some one who drives in a highly dangerous manner should be guiltiy of an offense whether someone is injured or not surely?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a criminal offence, no'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'breech of a regulation, maybe'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'it does seem a little strange, that on one hand you're describing them as a child, and on the other punishing them as though they're an adult'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, 16yr old is old enough to die for your country, old enough to drive, should be old enough to send naked pictures of yourself'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrespective of whether it's a 'crime' to do so anyway (it's not)'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've long argued for the age of majority to be set to 16 and fixed there for all things, or 18. Just whichever you choose make it uniform for all things'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pretty actresses are permitted to appear nude in films'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lets take an alternative example, had this been a 14yr old girl, what value is there of arresting her?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems as though pakistani muslims infiltrated the corrupted judicial systems where posing nudes is a "supposed crime"'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which country is persecuting the 16 year-old girl '
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'posing nude isn't a crime, forcing or coercing someone to is'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade suspects that Tigernuts is likely trolling out misrepresented news again
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're becoming a paranoid and delusional person, zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be a state law, it's certainly not illegal under federal law'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(the taking of the picture, the distribution of it, however, could be construed as illegal under 18USC2252'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be Twitter's fault'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade THWAPS Tigernuts for being a moron.
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it is service providers fault for distributing pirated material, how can it not be Twitter's fault for distributing a naked image?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't have it both ways'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or is zade advocating the selective enforcement of rules depending on the wealth and comparitive lobbying power of the affected party?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade THWAPS Tigernuts for excessive trolling and faulty defective reasoning
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not defective reasoning, it's an exactly comparable situation'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'extremely wrong Tigernuts '
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'extremely wrong Zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the current laws feature multiple standards'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you are advocating selective enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good to see you sticking up for your corporate paymasters'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems to advocate harsh adulterations of the "law"'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hardly, i was advocating 16 as the age of everything, this situation would never have cropped up'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems to advocate malfeasance through harsh interpretations of the "law"'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''not prosecuting it because it isn't a crime' doesn't seem to me to be a harsh interpretation'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts likely advocates the pakistani muslim interpretation of the law where babies are accused of murder, blasphemy and or other crimes'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately for you, Tigernuts doesn't. He doesn't know a lot about sharia law, but what he has seen he doesn't like'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tigernuts isn't a fan of authoritarianism'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and yet Tigernuts advocates blanket harsh authoritanarism by the harsh application of the law with a "blanket brush"'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which?'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'feigning clueless, tsk'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely you're making no sense'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is feigning an obtuse cluelessness to the implications of the crap Tigernuts is trolling '
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is not right for service providers to be prosecuted for the actions of the people using them, therefore it wouldn't be appropriate for Twitter to be prosecuted for someone using it to transmit objectionable material, however it is more objectionable for a regime to prosecute one service provider for copyright material it's users are transmitting while not prosecuting a different service provider for transmitting objectionable material'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you still don't understand my position after that, then you're dumber than a box of rocks'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the Tigernuts dislike of copyright persecutions prompts Tigernuts to advocate the persecution of 16 year olds -- that is depraved'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an incorrect application of logic'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernus dislikes something, so Tigernuts attempts to strike out wickedly against minors'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perpetuating your mistake won't help yuo'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also look up and listen to the sketch "A lesson in logic" by Monty Python to understand the mistake you made'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an arbitrary (almost as a pick a random ballpark number) "16 as the age of everything"  is authoritarian when the law is harsh'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh quickly, change the subject!'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'same topic different nuance of the depravity trolled out by Tifernuts'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a depravity, it's a pragmatic improvement on the current flawed situation'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to argue that the age of majority should not be 16 and not be applied across all the different things for which are currently age-restricted on adulthood, then make the case'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'next you be praising the Third Reich for "a pragmatic improvement on the current flawed situation" (of pre WWII)'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'next you'll be picking holes in spelling or grammar, sounds like you either lost the argument or never had anything to say in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Tigernuts depravity seems to advocate:  "16 less a day soft laws, 16 plus a day harsh law" -- reeks of harsh depraved "authoriterrorism"'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is randomly failing to enforce his own laws again, according to the news'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'laws are made to be broken.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in breach of his terms of office once more'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'yup no laws no criminals'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Once again, the president is giving a break to corporations while individuals and families are still stuck under the mandates of his health care law. And, once again, the president is rewriting law on a whim. If the administration doesnt believe employers can manage the burden of the law, how can struggling families be expected to? This continued manipulation by the president breeds confusion and erodes Americans confidence in him and his health care law.  We need fairness for all, with relief from ObamaCare for every American."'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Should use the food stamp money to buy seeds and start a garden.....'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like the UK, many US citizens can't afford a garden'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and may cities ban them'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'anyone can afford a garden.....cities let people use abandoned lands to garden.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but often won't allow them in their front yards'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the avg garderner can grow upwards of $5000 of vegetables in a 32 sq foot plot per year.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, in your state the police come and arrest men dressed in banana suits with unloaded rifles standing outside a newly opened gun store advertising witha big sign'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here they can't'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '32 sq foot < 32 foot sq'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I enjoyed shooting my .22 yesterday......wasted about 500 rounds.....6 cents per round.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'd have you arrested here'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks IRA'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means thanks bloody yanks'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'serves you right'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you lot hadn't been funding terrorists throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the wouldn't have banned guns'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you shouldn't fuck with violent alcoholic nations'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are wild deer all over the place around here....they walk around my 1 acre cabin fence all the time.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now you're funding islamic terrorists, something tells me you didn't learn your lesson after 9/11'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'screw alcohal stick with weed'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the wild deer would love to spend time with the does on the ranch though....the ranch deer and the wild deer meet all the time and talk.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'weed's boring'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'used to smoke daily for years, quit a few years ago'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Obama'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'for beer?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'alcohol is more fun....you can degrease an engine with it, or blow up trees mixed with some fertilizer and diesel.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i do like beer, yes'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'ruines too many lives not just the drinkers'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm a high-functioning alcoholic'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'right up till u smoke that buss full of kids'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we blow up stumps all the time around here with diesel and fertilizer......homeland security can bite me.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'how does one smoke a bus full of kids?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: '??? i thought it explaned itself. But for the sakes, U never know what a drunks going to do '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't drive schoolbuses'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'no but ur car can smoke it'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't even have a drivers license'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'thank god for that :P'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and even if i did have a car, why the fuck would i be driving one drunk?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: '??? i thought it explaned itself. But for the sakes, U never know what a drunks going to do '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'shit, it's cheaper for me to take a taxi every day than own and maintain a car'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'ya well alot of other drunks have a drivers licence'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'watch the news u see another drunk killing somone eveyday'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'hot many weed killings?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and stoned drivers don't?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'not that i've seen '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'not if ut talking other drugs then yes'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'don't recall seeing any upper related deaths this year but alot of downers deaths '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'bleh, i always hated these self-righteous stoners'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'even when i was a stoner myself'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'spoken like a true drinker'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm quite sure i was smoking before you were potty trained'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'beer fits me better these days. so what?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'point?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'just sayin drinking is much worse the weed'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you're the kind of idiot that makes pot smokers look bad. talking shit about other recreational drugs'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it really depends. some people can't handle pot, some can't handle alcohol. some can't handle anything'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'true'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'but either way look at it any way u want drinking is still in a league of its own'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'moderate alcohol consumption is in no worse than excess smoking'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'lol '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the rain this winter has been incredible....'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'I wish still snowing here'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but i guess you're the kind of moron who thinks that pot is the best thing ever and only has positive effects'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'u must be one misirble old baster eh'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'our land here in SE Texas is one big mud pit...been like that for 2 months now.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'maybe. just speaking from experience'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'u should try talking to people without instulting them U shoul've learned that lesson by now'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, you started with the assumption that i'm a drunk driver'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's pretty fucking stupid'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'are you ?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'he don't drive but speaks for all the drunks apperanly'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I knew a drunk driver once.....he finally died in a crash.'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think the last time i drove a car was 15 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't speak for anyone but myself, but you seem to be a judgmental self-righteous shit who thinks smoking pot makes you better than other drug users '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'are snowbanks out in front of my house are at least 14 feet tall, the one in the side parkinglot that gets pushed up by the town, has to be at least 28 feet'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'didn't say that just said drinking ruines everybodys life'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'wonder how u heard me say that'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'U drinking right now?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no, why?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'cause u making shit up now'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i guess your reading comprehension is as bad as your spelling'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'well if u put words in my mouth, it's called making shit up'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'just read over the converstaion mabby u missed something or just didn't understand?'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, you said i was going to kill a bus full of kids'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'no u parsay well hell maybe I don't know but thats metaphorcal if u read it'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'it's not my spelling it's my fingers get ahead of me :P'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think you need to lay off weed for a while. you don't make sense and can't spell for shit'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'lol i knew that was comming '
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'ok I will u go have another one'
T3/r7/2014-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Justified is such a good show.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'man, I always miss the great deals!   Woodstock, IL--for about two hours, gas was mistakenly set to $0.011 per gallon.  A 12-gallon tank would've only cost 13 cents.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i feel sorry for the station owner'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I suspect it wasn't really a bug in the system.  Figuring it was a quality-of-employee kind of problem (ie, typo).'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since that is below both the federal and illinois state minimum pricing for gas he could be facing serious jail time in addition to fines and having to pay the gas company for the gas at full retail price'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'gas price manipulation is a felony iirc'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: '"manipulation" implies intent'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Shirley Temple is dead, Charlotte Church is alive'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'true there could be mens rea issues'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'No word of the condition of Julie-Ann Mosque or Debien Synagogue'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who is charlotte church tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Welsh singer'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there is a gas station here in fl that has a pup price of like 6$ ... and you can go down the street and get for 3.40'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there is a issue with selling below cost in order to drive out competition, but yea think gass stations can charge whatver they like for gas '
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i filled up with diesel on my way home tonight not more than 30 minutes ago, $8.40 a gallon'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Glaive: 'ouch'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there are definitely laws against pricing below certain levels (not to mention the tax issue)'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'why would you pay that for diesel in the US'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the US'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK where the socialists are strong'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea emm has to do with unfair competition'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Glaive: 'its bad enough at 4.oo here'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we get roughly the same wages, but with double the cost of living'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'sometimes its a form of dumping ... but you can sell below cost in order to for example clear out inventory in order to make way for next year items'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, and higher taxes'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Glaive: 'but you have socialized medicine!  thats supposed to make you feel all warm and fuzzy when you pay those taxes...'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'in the town I grew up in, all the gas stations in town charged 10-15 cents more per gallon than the ones right outside of town'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'would be very hard to manipulate gas prices without some form of collusion'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'happens here, big supermarket chains price for the area'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not really standard oil did it back in the day'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3 different chains in my town charge 1 price, 15 miles down the road, the same chains have a different price'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in this town circle k could do it since only 2 stations in the town aren't circle k'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'it's illegal if you can prove collusion occured, but that's not easy.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I remmber hanging out in a gas station in my home town and listening to the clerk call all the other stations in town to check prices'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'at the time I didn't think anything of it, but now I know they were breaking the law.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if they're the same chains and the prices are at all close, it's probably just a difference in taxes.  Across the greater STL area, gas prices can vary by as much as 20 cents or so.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea well standard oil is no longer around ...'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and there are much more market players now'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're part of BP'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'hence opec collusion'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but there are still laws on the books about setting prices below costs'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our taxes are uniform across the country, so they can't use that excuse here'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you have uniform sales taxes too tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'your local municipalities aren't allowed to set their own taxes?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you reckon the attack on the california power station was all about?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ecoterrorism, I guess.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without anyone owning up? doubt it'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what attack are you referring to, though?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-grid-attack-20140211,0,7627269.story#axzz2t20h4AYf'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ps exxon mobil had international rights to the standard oil name. US rights are devided between exxon bp and cheveron'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given they didnt make a big deal about it, the feds claim it's not terrorism, i'm thinking probably disgruntled internal corporate politics/vandalism'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'maybe, but it's probably not too hard to get a terror cell planted legitimately planted in an entity in order to do recon on the facilities.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not terrorism because it didn't have an aim for which causing terror was the vehicle'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hell, if you already know your people are clean, I bet you could even manage to swing a profiling/discrimination case if you ran into hiring difficulties.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're already giving our farm bill money to terrorists, why not our lawyer money too?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and ps standard oil was also broken in 34 companies when they originally broke it up'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'farm bill? pentagon funds terrorists directly'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, your national guard trains to shoot your own people'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://mediatrackers.org/ohio/2014/02/10/ohio-national-guard-training-envisions-right-wing-terrorism'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes, farm bill.  The Muslim Brotherhood (note that we've labeled them a terrorist organization) bought something like 100 acres of agriculture-zoned land and were awarded monies under an agriculture-research program included in the farm bill (this latest one was merely renewing the programs).'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't the muslim brotherhood the terrorist group that obama's half brother has ties to?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's the terrorist organization that I believe currently controls Egypt.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, they got booted out of egypt by the military'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama needs to go all Kim Jong Un on his half-brother.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'The thing is, hans, no one can afford to take on the refugees that a war with NK would produce.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china can, china's the most likely to invade NK'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wait, Obama's half-brother fled to NK?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'why should they?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a toss up as to whether they go NK first or try to retake the south china islands back off the philipinos'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'no-one has a good reason to invade NK'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China has a damned good reason to invade NK'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'China would invade NK just to make sure the US couldn't set up operations there.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NK is the excuse America has to have troops stationed in South KOrea'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and you don't think a china controlled NK would be as good of a reason?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'The US is NOT going to invade a country China has firm control over.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they couldn't lie about it anymore at that point'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NK hasn't been a military threat to US or SK since the fall of the USSR'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'invade no, be scared witless about and keep troops in the area absolutely'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'besides NK is too good of a foil for china to get rid of it'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'everytime NK does something stupid and china has to go talk to them it makes china look more like a world leader'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if china takes back their islands, USA will look like arses because of the defence agreement with Phillipines'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'right now, both sides are dealing with NK by proxy and are largely content to stay that way.  If NK went really crazy and gave the US a good enough reason to send troops into NK, China is likely to pre-empt that effort JUST to prevent the US from gaining a foothold there.  Basically, North Korea is China's Cuba.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'assuming that it doesn't provoke WWIII TN'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you know that for certain?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's extremely unlikely'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'a lot of MURICANS have some pretty extreme ideas concerning the phillipines.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt most muricans know where it is'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'given how many of them or their relatives served there at one point or another'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'muricans know that they have hot chicks there.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well this isn't phillipines it's a few almost uninhabited islands that phillipines nicked in the 1970s'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and do you think that distinction will be cognizant to the rednecks in murica?'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they took em, which involves wiping out about 60 phillipine troops on the one base there, the americans will probably whinge and posture and go to the UN'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rednecks don't want war'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'WW3 won't be triggered via web of treaties and agreements.  It's going to be some nation acting unilaterally, and said nation will either have to be already strong enough militarily that world leaders have to think twice about engaging or have one doozy of a bargaining chip that makes the easy win rather troublesome.'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'well, not with other countries'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'just with their own'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tends to be the corporate backed goons that want war, like John MCCain and that other idiot from S Carolina'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given how the rednecks were lied to over 2 iraq wars and afghanistan and how shittily they've been treated since, it's unlikely you'll get grassroots support for any war short of someone directly attacking US territory'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'popular support, that is'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see Syria for details'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i think the two things are entirely different'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your rednecks can't hold a candle to UK chavs for stupid'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and ours didn't want to get involved in Syria'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im quite sure if china invaded say japan, there would be huge popular support for a war'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be grudging support'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just drop nukes'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or if russia invaded europe'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia won't be invading Europe any time soon'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but if they do, they're welcome to it'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be interesting to see how a world war would play out in terms of space combat'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at least a superpower war between US and CHina'
T3/r7/2014-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can be screwed over in my own country equally well by an invading Russian or Chinese system as I can my native government, at least the invaders to be aren't pretending to be good guys'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'politics and stuff!'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Democrat ex-new orleans mayor Ray Nagin convicted of 20 accounts of taking bribes while in office'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the only news there is that he actually got convicted'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news is always so bad these days that nothing really stands out'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'was that a sting operation by republicans offering the bribes'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know, zade, you'd have to go research it'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '5 high profile investment bankers have committed suicide in the last 2 weeks'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts cheers and sings... he is just BURSTING with joy!
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which country, and which bank(s)'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest one was JP Morkgan, New York. Previous ones were JP Morgan London, Russel Investments (location not mentioned) , DeutcheBank, London, ATS, Colorado, ReAG London'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '5 is a lot, suggests they were assisted - maybe 5 homicides'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, there's sufficient investment bankers to make this statistically normal'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bankers with a conscience is ... normal?'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lack of conscience doesn't exempt them from stress'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime i'm having to wade through paperwork to stop our lovely national health service passing on my medical records to profit making companies and the police'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those were 1 plus 5 locations, or 6 locations'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aqualad: 'Do people who admonish others for improper use of specific channels with an improper use of said specific channel realize the irony of their actions? '
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Glaive: 'I LOVE LAMP!'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a notice to bring the channel back on topic isn't offtopic for any channel'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aqualad: 'Is that in the Bible?'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so let it be written, so let it be done'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aqualad: 'awesomesuace...'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and if they wrote crap ...'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aqualad: 'thank you, oh wise and mighty king of crap...'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news alert! man dies in UK storms!'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British news (BBC) is fantastic at not reporting important news outside of the UK'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'BBC's coverage of the Nuland Ukrainian ambassador scandal carefully neglected to mention that the US had been supplying upwards of $5m in an effort to get one of the opposition parties elected'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What, the US interfere in another country? Impossible!'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people don't usually get to hear about stuff like that til 20 years later, then magically ignore it'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as their involvement in deposing a democratically elected government in Iran'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their involvement in defeating nationalist leaders in the CHinese war in favour of the communists'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so on'
T3/r7/2014-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this short sketch pretty much should sum up how Americans should see the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY'
T3/r7/2014-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'can I report the president for spamming my email?'
T3/r7/2014-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '.. you ungrateful wretch ..'
T3/r7/2014-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Illionois customers who are customers of Commonwealth Edison are being ripped off of  $21 a month if they refuse to have spymeters installed on their property'
T3/r7/2014-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK parliament made it a criminal offence to smoke in a car with a child in it'
T3/r7/2014-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aqualad: 'good'
T3/r7/2014-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree that smoking in a car with a child is bad, but it was totally unnecessary law'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the most overused and shitty joke from celebrity comedians is the "im a celebrity" joke variations.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'need to propose a law that says its ok to foam a person who makes jokes of these types.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GhostLeader: 'NO!!!!'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Hi. i'm Zade. i'm a celebrity."  (applause) '
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GhostLeader: 'WE HAVE ENOUGH LAWS AS IT IS, WE DONT NEED ANY MORE SAYIN WHETHER OR NO WE CAN TELL A JOKE!!!!!'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal foam zade
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what is "foam" as a verb?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'loud music murder trial verdicts in: one mistrial on a murder charge, three guilty verdicts for attempted murder, and one of shooting dangerous missles into a vehicle.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade the grammar-nazi yells "foams"
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'to foam. foaming. foamed. fomt'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'fompt is better'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Eruanna: 'hi zade!!!'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so. when will you retaliate against trojans in your computer. 1.the 1st suspicious hdd crackle in the middle of idle time 2. the suspicious naked lady animation in the left bottom corner of the screen 3. when waking up in jail, beaten up to death's door, accused in hosting a child porn site?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you sorted it out, then :-)'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'im in the naked lady stage.. a lot of suspicious crackles have been going on for a year.. still don't care:)'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not just autoupdates on everything?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could probably use something like wireshark to see what's talking home'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i have win7. i honestly.. crap. i have no clue what it does anymore. its crazy'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'googling'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they want to look at your computer, they're going to look at it, modern pc stuff is so compromised that it doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'was anyone watching the loud music murder trial who can explain to me why it may not be murder?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'loud music trial?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'in florida a man got into an argument with some teenagers over loud music and shot and killed one of them.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why'd he do that?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'loud music makes people do bad things'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, tis murder, right?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'he said he felt threatend, but there didn't seem to be any evidence of it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'couldn't shot an arm/leg, didn't need to kill the guy'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'he wasn't convicted of killing the teen, but he was convicted of shooting into the fleeing vehicle. He may get 75 years.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'is there any math involved in law stuff? i dont mean the tresholds or in-time'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'math involved?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'like - if a person shoots aimlessly around. will there be a calculation about how careless he was exactly?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is carelessness a factor?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'most certainly it should be'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'well he was charged with attempted second degree murder (and convicted) if he was shooting at something else in a poplulated area that would be reckless endangerment which isn't as bad.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'they usually take just how careless you were into account.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so. if you shoot around just for fun. not trying to hit anybody. why is it like 10000000xtimes more bad if you hit someone? the act is the same'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing wrong with target shooting'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'if you are shooting at a vehicle you know has people in it that is very very bad even if you don't hit anyone,  if you are shooting a paint cans and you don't carefully check your backdrop its not as bad (manslaughter if you kill someone I would think, reckless endangerment if you don't)'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yes, as a shooter you have a duty of care'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'whats the usual difference in years in usa - shooting a van full of people with not hitting anyone and shooting and killing someone in it?'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'asking because the evildoing is exactly 100% same'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'shooting without hitting someone could be either attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon, they carry lighter sentences.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'don't really know, for the three people he didn't hit he will get 20-30 years each and 15 years for shooting into the vehicle.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'probably 7 to 15 as opposed to 25 to life.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'reckless endangerment wouldn't have been as bad, but that doesn't apply because he knew people were in the van.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the raised punishment for hitting anyone is the revenge part'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'someone*'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'no, not reckless endangerment.  That would be what the paint can shooter would be charged with.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'don't really know why attempted murder isn't as bad as murder.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'because you missed :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'usa has death penalty because people love revenge too much'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the van shooter could also be charged with depraved indifference, that carries the same sentence as murder.'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I do have to admit I would rather be a victim of attempted murder than murder :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'and for that you have to thank steven seagal and arnold:p'
T3/r7/2014-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'absolutely :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It seems to me that most things I would consider a hobby are mostly performed by men. Do women not have hobbies, or do I just have a narrow view on what is a hobby?'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women have hobbies'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'carefull how u say that one lol I get in touble :P'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having babies is a hobby'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'according to a study out of Northwestern University in Illinois, all gay men are 60-70% genetically heterosexual. http://news.yahoo.com/gay-dna-221200774--politics.html'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm not particularly convinced that homosexuality is genetic as such'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: '"gayness", in whatever light you feel it to be (against, pro, okay with it, etc), if we studied this stupid useless shit as much as we did cancer or aids, we'd have a cure.  its like the 21st centry social piranah (sp?). '
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'if I had to bet, I'd go with prenatal hormones as the most likely determinant'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'my opinion, who cares.  if you're gay, fine.  im straight, so you just be as fine with it.  problem i have is when they have to make it a big deal.  don't see me holding straight-pride rallies.  want to teach my kids its okay to be gay (which im fine with), then i should be able to teach yours that its okay to be straight (most gay couples wouldn't find this okay).  it's equivalent to the whole black thing - we have black history month, naacp, etc.  but if we had a white history month, holy shit you're racist.  double standards piss me off.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Without double standards, how are you going to get rid the cultures/values/people who are actually better than the others?'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not entirely pc, I know..'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'straight-pride and white-power should be held up as *ial pinnacles alongside gay-pride and black-power.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'there shouldn't be a "better" standard.  hitler tried this, and regardless of race, religion, or crede, he is prodominantly considered a bad influence.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's because he was upper management content on letting his underlings run the show.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Today the relativist views are creating more problems, Hitler being somewhat discredited.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'thus, the hate on hitler is not for the atrocities committed in his name but because he's Big Business.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either do that, hans, or arrest as terrorists all gay pride'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no need for terrorism, indecent exposure and lewd behavior are enough.  Can even throw in the child-related charges to put some real impact on the levy.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'homosexuals appear more likely to be spies than terrorists..'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh on indecent exposure and lewd behaviour, marginally dodgy laws'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why avoid taking advantage of the batshit crazy when it comes to child welfare?'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure i follow'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'at the the very least, we can mold the movement back to some semblance of normal.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'batshit crazy... like that :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when it comes to kids, lots of folk are willing to place a gun to your head and make you feed yourself feetfirst to a woodchipper if they even think you were doing something inappropriate.'
T3/r7/2014-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why bother, has the movement and relevence or value to real life?'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, how long is it since Chavez died? And already people have had enough and are about to tear the place a new arsehole?'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialism ftw!'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Everything is fine in Venezuela, it must be - the Caracas stock exchange went up 400% last year'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, nothing to do with hyperinflation.....'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what's more worrying, that the USA is 46th in the ranking of press freedom, or that it is beaten by 13 places by the UK?'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, 400% measured in Bolivars, but according to official sources, inflation is quite low'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''official' sources?'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The government of Venezuela says everything is under control and so on :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'foreign economists may estimate inflation at 250-300% per year, but those are just imperialist blood suckers out to destroy the glorious socialist republic etc.'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'noticed the UN are going after NK over human rights issues, yet are happy to turn a blind eye to US/UK/Western human rights violations elsewhere'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hypocritical bastards'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm more surprised that they are suddenly complaining about Kim whatever it is, Jong-un?'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're probably sowing the seeds for the justification of moving the US en-masse into the west pacific'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if China has any sense at all, it'll invade NK and topple the Kims'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'they'd take the world almost there already'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't think the CCP likes NK much. It's probably more like "we are both pretending to be communists, and they are madmen with nukes, so it is best to remain on good terms"'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, 1 in 4 americans don't know the earth circles the sun, though to be fair, i doubt it's much different here'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you heathen you..where did I put that bonfire'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from what i've heard, china fears the collapse of NK regime because it would put a huge burden on them'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why i think they'd be wise in taking them out so they can control it'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also, it's not like the rest of the world are going to stop them, provided they do it in a relatively clean and sensible way'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'and have somewhere to live'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt it'd take much to overthrow NK'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, Chase bank is banning cash deposits unless you have a photo ID, and you now can't deposit cash into another person's account'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'coughPoliceStatecough'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'allegedly, the ban on deposits into others accounts was at the request of the State department'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'demonisation of cash has been going on for a while, and yes, it's inherantly anti-freedom'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Christians! beware of the Mark of the Beast'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an unhelpful comparison, though it does fit rather well'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see the US is launching their national license plate database + automated number plate readers for police'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we already have it here, it's sick'
T3/r7/2014-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has legimate law/order uses, but law/order also abuse it to harass criminals, and the government also use it to target political dissent'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in Iowa, abortion advocates are complaining about this new law that allowed more abortions.  The law states that the governor must sign off on any medicaid reimbursements for abortion procedures, but to get around the rule the clinics doing them just aren't billing the state at all.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'interesting, so who is paying the,'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'them?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"abortion advocates are complaining about this new law that allowed more abortions".  Does not compute.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nobody is paying them.  They're writing off the costs to stay out of the abortion politics.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, someone has to pay them -- I mean, the cash has to come from somewhere'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's the thing, reimbursements come from the government.  If you're not telling the government that they owe you money, they aren't going to come investigate to see if perhaps you want some of this extra money they seem to have lying around.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'sure, I understand that, but there still seems to a problem -- operations are being performed and some one has to pay for this'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the hospital is paying it...essentially to themselves.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, I'm not deep into the US system, but medicade is for where there isn't insurance right?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Operations are that expensive over here...'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Here being sweden. They aren't cheap by any meaning of the word, but they aren't the ludicrus costs the americans pay.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Although, they ARE cheap for me. $15 on the table and they'll take care of me no matter if I have the sniffles or cancer.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, then I am still stuck -- I mean, the hospitals are going to run out of cash sooner or later'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'The hospitals charge insane amounts of money for medical care because the insurance companies demand rebates.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Something costs the hospital 10. They list the charge as 40. The insurance company demands a rebate down to 15 and get it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'sure, but this is not happening in this case'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hospitals in the U.S. charge like that all the time.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you have to be approved for the procedure, but that's different at time-of-service versus when-the-bill's-due.  For the latter, the rule in place says that hospitals may send a bill to the government (in Iowa, this means the governor) and he decides to pay (the hospital gets it's money back) or not pay (the hospital loses money).  The whole surprise is that Iowa hospitals are preferring to simply bypass government entirely and simply not ask for a refund.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Which is how a bag of saline, plus administering it, which has a cost of something like 2 dollars + 3 or 4 minutes of work for a nurse, can be charged 1500 dollars if you don't have insurance.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you forgot room and board.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, that is surprising -- I mean, the US medical system is not renowed for it's generosity'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'when the economics doesn't work at all like this, it makes me wonder whether it's true  -- why don't the hospitals just stop'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'if they would limit the spread between what they can charge insurance companies versus individuals we would see real prices hospital bills.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'apparently there are differences that could pit state (medicaid) versus federal (medicare), so that's another consideration for them.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, okay, this is interesting -- I never knew the difference betwen medicaid and medicare'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there is a difference in how they are administered, but Medicare is for people over 65, and medicaid is for poor people.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'all sounds quite complicated to me -- perhaps you should just have a National Health Service like we do -- that seems to work reasonably well'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'perhaps, but it won't happen here soon.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ours works like shit, don't have a national health service'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you get yourselves a national health service in the USA, you'll regret it forever'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's outright hilarious how the political climate works between America and Britain.  Textbook "the grass is greener" scenario, with the Brits wanting to become like America and Americans wanting to become like the Brits.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't get me wrong, i wouldn't want the american health system either, unless i had decent insurance as part of a job'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately nobody seems to learn anything from each other'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'both sides are screaming how their side isn't working, and each are utterly amazed that they want to move to a system that obviously doesn't work.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ps, obamacare must have been dreamt up by insurance companies and voted on by retards'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'obamacare?  Legislation in general.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the phrase "what the hell were you THINKING" comes to mind'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'It was a Republican idea :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'retardation is fairly indicative once you have to make a noise ordinance on goldfish.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'It didn't do a whole lot for the danger of runaway health care costs.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all it did was fuck up people who already had insurance, Malkar and make them pay more'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obamacare was never supposed to save us money.  A comfortable public is a liberated public, and a liberated public gets active and involved.  That's not "best for business" where politicians are concerned.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would have been better off having regulation that helped make insurance comparable then had a government insurance plan subsidised by a tax on health insurance'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'competitive and mobile, yes.  Republicans were asking for that since Obamacare was first announced on Congress's floor.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'remember, ACA was a bill that Democrats really didn't want you to read.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'first flaw of it is it's mandatory'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that mandatory part was inspired by car insurance.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck car insurance'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'no danger of anyone actually readings legislation.  the Republicans certainly didn't read i, they just harped on "death panels", the media didn't read it, or at least if they didn't they didn't want to tell us what was in it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't exactly a lightweight bill, from what i understand'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about passing a law that insists all legislation is about one subject only and cannot have riders'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was close to 2000 pages, and if I recall they wanted to put it up for vote 2 days after it was brought up,.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the speaker of the house even made it a point to explain that it could be read and debated after the vote.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's him needing impeaching to start with, then'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'pennsylvania has that, and when the legislature violates it the state supreme court shrugs its shoulders and says "if you don't like it vote them out."'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'her.  It was Nancy Pelosi at the time.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, that witch'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of which, Obamacare raises your rates based on age.  As you age, your healthcare will cost more.  But at least they can't charge you more than the next guy.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it sucks :-)'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it doesn't suck quite as badly as the latest victim of cop shooting'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some companies in America are offering unlimited paid time off.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor the gun rally in NC where the ralliers are being strongly discouraged from carrying guns'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oho, Obamamania's looking to extend the ACA risk corridors program.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, the huge UK sell-off-your-medical-records-for-profit-for-the-greater-good got delayed today by 6 months'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, a new proxy war develops in Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'let Russian jackboots feel the sting of their caltrops.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm all for revolution, just wish US would keep their beaks out'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'interference just undermines the legitimacy of the movement'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A department of energy official told members of the house energy and commerce committee that Obama's unilateral actions via the EPA regarding coal power will cause consumer electric prices to rise by 80%'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm fairly sure that's an average.  Rural areas are far more dependant on coal-powered powerstations than urban ones, a reason cited for why all-eletric cars will cause more air pollution.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even a Prius will barely break even compared to a decent diesel car over a lifetime in terms of pollution'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'electric cars are a boondoggle'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why do you say that, Tiger?  Electric cars themselves don't emit any pollution at all, and urban zones are migrating to cleaner sources for their powerstations.  With proximity dictating frequency of charge, this means we can have more electric cars in urban zones with little/no change in pollution rates.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that just moves the pollution about - electric cars are more polluting to manufacture because of the batteries'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you still need to generate the electric'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't get me wrong, electric cars have application in cities where distances are short and local pollution is an issue, but they can never replace regular cars in more rural spots, or over long distances, and I certainly disagree most strongly with government policy that seeks to penalise regular car drivers and/or reward electric car drivers'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, to make Charlotte's Web, just cook your marijuana in butter.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a particular strain'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my diesel car emits CO, CO2, Water vapour, and trace amounts of NOx and SO2, so it's cleaner than most environmentalist nut's cakehole, so they can fuck off'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, I know.  Specifically designed to not get you high, and alleged as an all-but-cure for pediatric epilepsy.  Familes with this problem children are rushing to Colorado, and being preyed on by bogus dealers (one was quoted as saying you could make it by cooking in butter).'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the active chemicals in pot are fat soluable, so yes, cooking it in butter is how you make pot brownies etc'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will get you very high, as many newbs have found to their cost in Colorado and ended up in hospital'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so put the "cure" into a properly-calibrated-measured inexpensive generic pill or liquid form'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do, but there's no big market in generics'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and keep them in the medicine cabinet.  The kids will never find them there.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the locked gun cabinet is an alternative location'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your country is trying to do away with guns, so that won't help. WHy not just keep it in the medicine cabinet or a locked draw? Why does it need such a hig level of security?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(disregard the bad advice from Hanslanda)'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'honestly, if epilepsy and whatever else pot supposedly cures/treats is such a scourge and pot isn't, why not just dose everyone with a mandatory food additive?  Hell, charge extra for those fools who want their food to be extra-pure and organic.  They're eventually going to cost more money to care for anyways...'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the gun cabinets may be recycled-in-use to prevent (say) Tigernuts from obtaining marijuana illigally'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(illegally)'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mass medication is bad, hanslanda, and besides, it's not a cure-all, and plenty of people are allergic'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that are allergic, tough luck'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they can do the studies later'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but i am able to eat peanuts -- if you are allergic to peanuts, die! (or avoid the peanuts)'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like they did on fluoide?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fluoride, even'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is not allergic to flouride
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone is allergic to fluoride'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is not allergic to fluoride
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in sufficient quantities'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts lies!'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doctors and scientists disagree with you, Zade, fluoride in water is one of several toxins that are lowering kids IQs and causing developmental issues'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go read the papers'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'while HF and F2 are deadly poisons when inhaled, the miniscule quantities in slightly fluoridated water are not dangerous'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't kill you, but they will lower your IQ among other things'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'scientists are also calling for like a 300% tax burden to deal with climate change, so I'm not too particularly concerned on what scientists say.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fluoridation and bromidation of the water was first tested on prisoners of war by the Germans and Russians in WW22'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we haven't had WW3 yet...'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but wait .. i drink well-water - no official fluoride -- but lots of hard water impurities -- but there are the triple filters, and the water is usually boiled'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll probably live, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you test for methane?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'regular bromide longterm is extremely bad '
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Thank god I was fluoridated all my life, it would suck to be any smarter'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'smart people seem to think that giving pot to kids is a good thing.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which smart people is that?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the bromine or bromide, when ingested, is converted to bromate, which may cause mental difficulties when taken longterm -- this was known since early last century'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably the ones who figured out that some pot chemicals trigger seizures and some don't.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trigger seizures?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'THC can trigger seizures, yes.  CBD (another chemical found in pot) is believed (albeit untested at the moment) to have seizure-preventing properties.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hadn't heard of the first part'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'chlorides are safe, and reasonable amounts of (nonradioactive) iodine'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just think, the water is already a wash with oestrogen, now they want to flood it with statins too'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Provide some evidence Hanslanda, I find nothing but anti-seizure evidence'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'One article by a reputable source linking THC to elevated seizure rates Hanslanda?'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'early 21st century marijuana is different to the marijuana of the mid 20th century  - the chemical percentages are different'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Bah! This channel should be renamed the "Opinion" channel'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'drug dealers cultivated for the "high" and the resulting product causes paranoia and other mental difficulties -- the mid 20th century marijuana contained a proper balance of chemicals which prevented the paranoia'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'still looking, all I'm finding on either side of the subject is anectodal stuff from both users/non-doctors and doctors.  They all explain their situations and talk about what's happening, but no links or references to anything.'
T3/r7/2014-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"so which marijuana are you using, modern or old.  Are you feeling lucky today, punk!" '
T3/r7/2014-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh deary me, obama's lot are at it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gXKwQI_0kDI'
T3/r7/2014-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooh, new studies suggest Paxi may promote breast cancer'
T3/r7/2014-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't mass murder/suicide pills just lovely!'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'should Path of the Believer be renamed to Path of th?e Belieber'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'ukraine business. most depressing. there are videos about people getting killed. and its 2014.. still animals'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'civilization is three meals thick, I heard'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'good one'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ukraine, complicated'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, the FCC wants to start interfering in broadcast media newsrooms'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'they dont already?'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently not'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'hmm '
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'like late night talkshows?'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but they plan "asking news managers about their choices of what to cover"'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'Oh I thought that has already been in effect for years'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, fairness doctrine ended in 1987'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you enjoy the hypocrisy in the the EU and USA's stance towards Ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if there were protests of that magnitude on the streets of the USA, the national guard would be out and they would be killing dozens'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto UK'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'no dout they signed off on that deal a few years ago now'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when foreign powers try to undermine US politics with hundreds of millions of dollars, it's very illegal unless it's corporations doing it'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'butit's OK for USA to do it to Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have the answer to the Ukraine problem but one thing is for sure - the west is inflaming it even if turns out we didn't cause it'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this ain't good, man barred from voting because of his t-shirt: http://tinyurl.com/pqdgl25'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'electionering is against the law'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't an election-related t-shirt'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it was a second amendment t-shirt that would be an "issue"'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i guess wearing one with an american flag on it would also be an issue'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'though they probably should have just made him turn it inside out'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is debatable i guess'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they would have been better off enforcing the law as written, not in the twisted way they wanted to interpret it'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"Theres a proposition on the GOP ballot, asking voters whether the state should support second amendment liberties by expanding locations where CHL holders may legally carry their weapons.  Therefore, wearing that t-shirt is considered electioneering, which is prohibited within 100 feet of the polling place."'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'electioneering also applies to measures, not just candidates'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's on the ballot in Texas?'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then i stand corrected'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so they should have had him elected?'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'arrested even'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sorry im sick today not up to my usual form'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's still a bit of a stretch, but at least arguable now'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would imagine it would be an unusual election anywhere in the US that none of the candidates had mentioned second amendment related concerns during the election'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'frankly if he weren't out to make a point/make a fuss he would have turned the damn shirt inside out and voted.'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't believe they have such petty laws in the UK, but just in case maybe i'll wear my chez guevara tshirt to the next vote'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'personally I think we don't do enough to stop the electioneering at election places in this country'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure the law is there to stop people overtly advertising for their candidate/measure'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to prevent people wearing generic, vaguely political t-shirt'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'like a huge number of election places are in churches which is just fundementally screwed up'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's wrong with elections in churches? they do that here too, handy scattered, large public buildings'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'except the vast majority of churches support particular candidates around here'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and have signs up that you have to drive past to get into the parking lot'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so to get to your election place you are driving past tons and tons of signs for particular candidates'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there was one church here locally that had setup a veritable gauntlet of signs condeming one presidential candidate in 2012 and to get to the parking area to vote there you had to basically drive through a maze of the things'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course they all stopped at exactly 100 meters from the front door of the church'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'frankly that's likely to piss me off and make me vote for the one they're condemning due to such a blatant attempt to sway my vote :p'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with all the corporate money in politics and the party system ensuring we all get screwed whoever gets in, i really can't work up much of a issue with signage or venue'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this was quite fun, even for GB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NsQoz-vnKhc'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK: Right wing think tank petitions to allow magistrates to sit in police station and dispense on-the-spot justice'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Think: Judge Dredd'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, the police can already do that to some extent'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can impose fines for certain things, that's about it'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then again, in the UK we already long ago lost the right to a trial by judge and a jury of our peers'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yep that's true'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're a "nice quiet" police state'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, I think these things are relative'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and wholly unacceptable'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'should California be split into 6 states?'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '6? why 6 and not 2?'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mostly a geographical thing.  Silicon Valley would be one state, for example.'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a bit of a stretch, and really until you reel in the federal government, what would be the point?'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they feel California as-is is far too ungovernable'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, not really'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sort out the federal government, then decide'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the other side, think UK would benefit from being split'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so you're okay with Scotland leaving?'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK should be divided into 10, really'
T3/r7/2014-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. cheese. many people seem to like it. why is that? it doesnt taste so good at all. so weird'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Susan Rice on Ukraine: THis is not about USA vs Russia'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cough*bullshit*cough'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Well, it's not ONLY about the USA vs. USSRussia'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it's also very much about ethnic ukrainians vs. russian ukrainians'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or whatever those groups prefer to call themselves'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is it just me, or does Venezuela's Maduro look a lot like Saddam Hussein?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Maduro is on a hiding to nothing, CHavez had the cult of personality - Maduro is a naked communist and it's all about to fall apart around his ears (albeit with the CIA giving it an occasional nudge)'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'comedy eyebrows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HTg45g85WP0'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when are we, rightly, going to see the SPLC banned as a hate group?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sages Preventing Lame Conversation'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Stupids Promoting Lame Conversation'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'where would we be without lame conversation? :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade would be out of a job'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'singles promoting latex condoms'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Legend Jaygod slaps himself on the head and yells, "DOH!"
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the constant race-pimping SPLC does, how is it they get away with it?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm reasonably sure they'd be outlawed here in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, the oldest holocaust survivor, Alice Herz-Sommer has died at the age of 110'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the vacation in the camps was healthy -- very few live to 110'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't have you down as a holocaust denier, Zade, apparently (and ridiculously) that's a crime in some countries'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bad Tigernuts, you seem to be denying she was in the camps'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course she was there, i was there with her'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'playing the fps "Castle Wolfenstein" is not the same as "being there" '
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i mourn her along with the sacrifice that our forces made to keep us free, and mourn that these days people have forgotten the sacrifices that were made in their names in todays fascist dictatorships'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"your" forces - ha! - you are not Russian'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-j 4'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not russian'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'm English'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Zade - Please stop making me agree with Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can't help it, Arnica'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are talking of "sacrifices", be careful '
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nasty god may be watching'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't fear god'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'fool'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite the opposite, it's foolish to fear god'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when you look at what happened to you ...'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that god's fault?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i dislike liars'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you shouldn't be so hard on yourself'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'God likely dislikes liars'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you speak on behalf of God?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course he does'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Legend Jaygod stands around looking all haughty and snobbish.
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Belief in a god is a way of denying responsibility for ones own condition. No god deserves credit or blame for your situation, only you do. Own it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'If there is a god, they will appreciate you for it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade possibly things: why have rational beliefs if you can blame all your shit on god?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tsk, such disrespectful talk'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yet not denied'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"is" , "they"'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: '"they" is the accepted appropriate usage in English for an unknown sex'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 12:36 "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment" -- Grammar-nazis ftw!'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's said in the absence of having an opinion on anything'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Who was questioning whose grammar?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"it" is (also) the singular of "they" '
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't me'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'So what, you ignorant idiot?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's fighting talk'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'imo - having belief in a god as a means to deny responsibility is missing the goddamn point and is disingenious practice of religion and blind ridicule of practitioners of religion and not the religion itself'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Being called a nazi is not?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whose calling who a nazi?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'green jello'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Did you not see the end of Zade's inappropriate Bible quote? Read it again: [23 Feb 17:03:32] (Debate) Zade: 'Matt 12:36 "But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment" -- Grammar-nazis ftw!''
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while it might be convenient to deliberately misinterpret what he said and believe he was accusing someone of being an actual nazi, that would require stooping down to his level'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'It is a misuse of a word with dire meaning in light of the events that transpired under that flag'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'and to use it in the original context of the discussion was disgusting'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't subscribe to the overreaction based on language, going down that route leads to nobody every able to say anything for fear that they'll be sued or arrested for perceived discrimination. See the southern poverty law centre (otherwise knows as race baiting anonymous) for details'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade the Grammar-nazi rebuts:  you were wrong though, Arnica -- the use of "they" in that context was inappropriate, (perhaps also extremely inappropriate from the added ambiguity in retrospect) - you are not worthy to be a grammar-nazi
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by all means feel free to be disgusted with him for being an arsehole'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Perhaps you are not worthy to bear the label "Sapient", Zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(tsk, political-correctness nazis)'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps it would help to replace nazi with it's english meaning "national socialist"'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it would help, people so quickly forget it was a far-left party, not a far-righty'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a grammar-nazi is not necessarily a nazi'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a grammar-nazi does not connote anuthing political'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well which are you,a nazi, or a jesuit?'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a "grammar-jesuit" -- too RCC, not going to catch on as a colloquialism '
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try tagging on a different taboo term and see if you make something stick'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Grammar-Hammer-Whammer-Bammer '
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade conjectures:  so you intolerants are likely to be prejudiced against Lenny Bruce, perhaps even George Carlin
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm both intolerant and prejudice'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'btw,  "disingenuous" not "disingenious" (although if HP Lovecraft did that typo ..)'
T3/r7/2014-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't care'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i just read the stupidest stuff in my newspaper. Apparently because only one in ten malaysians pay taxes, the government has decided it needs to up taxes to gain more revenue.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the prime minister stated that if the amount of civil servants were to increase, and salaries to remain normal, the government would be forced to borrow money. and we don't want *that* to happen now do we?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see that turncoat Piers Morgan finally got the boot'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'does this mean Jeremy Clarkson won?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it does'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'umm, who's Jeremy Clarkson?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he's one of the hosts of Top Gear'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'him and Piers Morgan have been fueding for years'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'UK version or American version?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'uk'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'he's the guy that punched Piers '
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Piers has more time to plot his next move, now that even the liberals don't want him on TV anymore.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but he's like the common cold, you don't really beat him, he'll show up somewhere else to make people miserable'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there's very few public figures that just piss me off, but Piers Morgan manages to do just that'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'maybe we should dare Jeremy to try again, but from a farther distance away.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I guess they've been going at it on twitter, though I haven't really followed that nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Vince Vaugn does that for me.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I've met a lot of people that don't like him, either.  I'm kind of indifferent myself'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'It probably makes me a bad person for being happy that Piers is off the air, even if it's momentarily, but I'm still happy about it'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jeremy clarkson rocks'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'not as much as the dave clark five and their song about 'sha na na na. sha na na na. hey hey he..y.. good bye' '
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and looks like Crimea might be about to break away from Ukraine and join Russia'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts better get a mail order date from ukraine while they last then....'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't be silly'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if this revolution holds the country will be impoverished, price of brides will come down'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'um, they're already free.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'it's the divorces that are expensive'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then no thanks'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women are an expense i can live without, ta'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'there's actually a pretty high rate of divorce for people that marry women they met through mail order dating type things'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course there is, they're women'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts what if ukraine stops exporting your favorite brand of fine hair shampoos?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't care, VD, i'm going bald anyway'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts gay men divorce each other too though, you can't just be misogynistic about divorce'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay men are just as bad as straight women'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts in what way?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a money-and-energy-sucking partner is a money-and-energy-sucking-partner, regardless of gender or religion'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if they're black'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or disabled'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or jewish'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or 'fake liberal''
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts okay... so its like that unequal yoke thing in that epistle st. paul wrote while disliking heathens?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll have to enlighten me on that'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'nah ^_^ its better to let you go to hell without reading the bible ^_^'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude  1 Tigernuts: 0
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a better christian without having read the bible cover to cover than most devout catholics'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'but at least catholic chicks divorce less'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i couldn't possibly comment'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'catholics are like the Obama supporters of christianity - sheep with little integrity and even less intelligence'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts so if not catholic chicks, what is your type?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ones that lay eggs'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'well, to be fair, obama's staff did a really good job at helping me get a surgery i'd needed at the v.a. despite numerous mishandlings by the local hospital.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'whatever else you may criticize about his fiscal policies, or foreign affairs stances.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who was that, Jay Carney?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fearlis: 'Vampiredude how old are you?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'fearlis, um, why? is it blind date related?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks a lot, Obama'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you realise if him, GWB and Clinton and the others hadn't fucked up the VA over the last 30-50 years and honoured their pledges to the military, you wouldn't have had to go round the houses to get it'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts oh cmon, the v.a. was overrun with problems even before lbj took office'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still don't agree with Obama's mob's treatment of veterans'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'ah, well i havent met the aforementioned mob'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you say down and shut up'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh cmon. i doubt anyone really believes i'm the quiet type'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the interwebz is littered with stories of them being persecuted for political speech'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh. well. i was under the impression only people with funding get to make political speeches'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's before you get to the briefing that veterans are the the biggest threat to homeland security'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'nah, the biggest threat is corrupt defense contractors selling our secrets to china'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: '(prc not roc china)'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, that's the biggest threat to YOU, not to them'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'no that's the biggest threat to security .'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? they own china'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'the biggest threat is the public'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger, how many people live in china.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'jaygod, china has a public too...'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'numbers are meaningless in modern warfare'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Legend Jaygod: 'yeah but there not aloud to speak out'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'jaygod fair enough.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts um, no, numbers are the only counter to superior technology'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'remember how germany lost ww2 despite having better equipment?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'thats right... they didnt have enough manpower'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'germany lost ww2 because of poor tactical decisions'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'and enough production.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'our inferior equipment was mass produced, and we , and allied countries, sent a lot more people than germany did'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'do you think that if china would hesitate to invade japan if we were to shrink our military presence there? what about taiwan?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'that* not that if :('
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger, then why are they posturing so much'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they can'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'and they can attack.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll try it with those South China islands/atolls that phillipines currently have but historically belong to China'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see what happens'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger, lots of things historically belonged to china :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll attack North Korea far before they try Japan'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger, you're wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china don't need to attack US militarily, they've already got the USA wrapped up, economically'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, dude, you've already lost'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger, the u.s. is looking to draw down manpower at our bases that used to be of importance in the pacific. and they're negotiating interests with russia, oman, and iran. '
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've lost, and we lost several years ago'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'it's quiet clear that there will be a shift in what currently might be described as regional hegemony.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'quite*'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts, so why do you say that china wouldn't feel emboldened enough to attack?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the USA and the west have even a modocom of sense, they'd put a lot of effort into bringing back manufacturing home and weening ourselves off economic and material dependence on China'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they don't need to, VD'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're already at war with them and you don't realise it'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts the only way to do that would be to increase the demand for local products by going into a tarrif and currency war with china'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'umm, we are already.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be the sledgehammer approach, though there's quite a lot of grey area in there before you get to that stage which would help slow it down'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on many levels, Hans, nogs'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except the one that matters'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, I meant on bringing manufacturing back.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU hasn't'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're not the EU, though.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"the west" includes the EU :-)'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'hans, where you from?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts i dunno, the more the eu expands into the urals the less i agree.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm from the US's third coast.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US's trade deficit is still apocalyptic'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, but we're cooling on the made-in-china part.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'plus, they carry so much of our debt that they probably don't want us to continue trading with them as much.  Obviously, we're not good for it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not much of a debt held by them'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, not anymore.  We did scare the crap out of them, though.  Did you hear them whining the last time we threatened default?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did you expect?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though there was never any risk of that, it was just Obama being a twat'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defaulting on your debt would have been an impeachable offence, technically treason'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was the republicans who nearly forced us to default.  And they raised our taxes by letting in illegals and shoving ACA down our throats.  I bet they were even behind Watergate!'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody forced you to do anything'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were never at risk of defaulting'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything else you said about the rhinos is accurate'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, everything I said was a result of democrat maneuverings, not republicans.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, insurance companies wrote ACA'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'props to them, though, for successfully managing to get the republicans blamed.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Didn't Romney even have a hand in the prototype?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at their stance on immigration now - you have democrat vs democrat, there is not opposition'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigration - are you nuts? close the fucking border already'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(sums up my opinion on the matter)'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'out of curiosity, do you also support Mexico closing their border?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and Canada?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all immigration should be subject to a points based system decided by the country you're going to'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so how is the US going to do commerce?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'commerce does not require immigration'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, so you think the US policy should be "buy my products but keep your people away, we don't like them"?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an absurd way of putting it, but yes'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you stop beating your wife?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and you think the US could survive isolationism.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Mexico can jail US citizens for up to 2 years if they are caught in Mexico illegally.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having an immigration policy is not isolationism'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I believe you said "close the border".'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to immigration'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'crossing the border is an act of immigration, however temporary.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlimited immigration'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'semantics will not save your argument'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we still have the most money available to spend.  Unless we go full-on Kim Jong Sam, chances are good that the US isn't going to be fully isolated and those who close off with us will feel more of a bite than we will.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so, semantics aside (though I doubt you know what immigration and emigration means), what other countries should not have this unlimited immigration you claim?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'countries should control the flow of people into their country in just the same way they control the flow of goods'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you'd like to believe that, Hanslanda. But the US is a cosumer-oriented economy, they import more than they export.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which is obviously "more money available to spend".'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, you assume that the dollar is worth spending.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when has it ever not been?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigration restrictions and trade tariffs are there to protect your own people, and to a certain extent, protect other countries'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'in the '50s and '60s the US tourists flocked to Europe because of the purchasing power of the dollar. Do you think that is the case right now? The flow of tourism as reversed for the same reason.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody wants to go to America, it's a police state'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they still want our dollars'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but they do come US, during the summer, it's a cheap place to take a vacation.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's not really true, Hanslanda. I hate to burst your bubble.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vacations have nothing to do with your immigration policy'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I mean, the munchkins in the streets might think that the USD is worth having, but the real players don't come near it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lemme rephrase, they aren't looking to replace the dollars we give them.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, immigration policy dictates that if you are from a bordering country which is not Canada, you should be restricted.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they don't replace it, they come to the US to buy the bargains with it.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigration policy should dictate that if you're from any country not your own ou should be restricted. WIsh it applied here in the UK too, we'd be in far less of a mess than we are now'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'are you speaking as a native  american whose ancestors came to the land some 20 to 60 thousand years ago?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not american, i don't live in america, your question is irrelevent because the point made applies to any country'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'or are you speaking as a 3rd or 4th generation descendant of immigrants?'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, the point is that does who speak against immigration fail to speak about the immigration that got them or their ancestors to the US.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'legal immigrants, who were actually impacted by immigration quotas.  We didn't just swim ashore and take advantage of silly laws like the haitian landfall law.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a comparable situation, Aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, you mean non-South Americans.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'as a haitian, I can illegally come to your country and once I get there I'm no longer illegal!'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any government's prime responsibility is to the people of that country whom they represent'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'why not, Tigernuts. Do you think that the immigrants of the early to mid-twentieth century are more deserving than current immigrants? For the former immigrants they parked them in an island until they could get papers. The current policy is to put them behind barbed wire until they can ship them back. Sounds to me like there is an inconsistency there.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not relevent'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'of course not, it doesn't advance your case.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the priorities or needs of the USA 100 years ago are not the priorities now'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ok, I accept that. Though I am a bit confused about why illegal Canadians are not found behind barbed wire.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illegal canadians should be treated the same as illegal mexicans'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'how they should be treated doesn't confuse me, what confuses me is how they are treated.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you had a proper immigration policy backed by proper border controls, that problem would resolve itself'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and to call all immgrants from south of the border "Mexican" is racist.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only if you're retarded'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'really? There is only one country south of the border. I thank you for enlightening me.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'incorrect again'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most immigrants from the south are mexicans. It's a generalisation. At worst you could accuse me of being inaccurate, not racist'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it is a terrible generalization. The same generalization that traps legal immigrants in ICE raids.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and brand all Middle Eastern people as terrorists.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'racist would be: dumb down all the niggers, get them all on drugs, shooting each other in the ghetto, get them to hate all other races, break up their families and abort all their babies and generally destroy their culture'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the american government appears to be doing a damn fine job of doing that without me'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's a peculiar definition of racist. By your definition, all peoples from south of the US are of the same race.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was your definition, not mine. I clearly stated immigration policy should apply to all countries uniformly'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i made no reference to race in the original conversation'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but they don't. The US immigration policy is different depending on the country of origin.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well perhaps you'd best sort it out, then'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US immigration is a mess, I thought we'd established that...'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigration policy, that is'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I am not a proponent of immigration laws.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I have a hard time rationalizing borders.'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're important'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like having small government isn important'
T3/r7/2014-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is*'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, desperate to keep the corporate bandwagon going, the UN regime is now claiming volcanoes are causing the global warming pause'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Russia marines have been deployed around Sevastopol in Crimea, South Ukraine - primarily to defend the navy base there'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Jesse "The Body" Ventura is thinking about running for President in 2016.  If he does, will this be the first time an independant takes the office? :P'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesse "The Body" Ventura  sounds like a crap corrupt stagename -- and former-actors as politicians are incompetent and or work for sinister groups and or not to be trusted:  examples include Ronald Reagan, Sony Bono, Arnold Schwarzeneggar, and likely numerous others'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least Schwarzenegger made some serious attempts to rein inexcessive spending in Ca., but he was always blocked by D majority'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"the body" was his stagename...he was primarily a wrestler, not an actor'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Schwarzenggar commited miscegenative adultery '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrestlers are actors'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'Schwarzeneggar is the only one who can properly pronounce the austrian accent.  the other 8.4 million are wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'skilful actors'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'jealous or envious, Cytan'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'venture seemed semi-normal when he was governor, but after he left office he seemed to turn whackjob'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ventura*'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'sympathetic actually.  would you want to be led by the persona of a man who banged this chick? http://ryanseacrest.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/arnolds-mistress-600-400-05-18-11-6.jpg'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Ventura was always a whackjob, he just branched out into different flavors of it at different times.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'and had offspring you held from your wife for 8 yeras?  i think not. i feel sorry for the austrians.  after franz ferdinand, haven't they been through enough?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'debate over?  i win!'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Austrians are doing okay -- they are able to boast that Adolf was Austrian!'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'dammit zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'yes.  but their loss still resulted in the term 'world war''
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'never heard of franz ferdinand, except maybe obscurely'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I have'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'they are a good band'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Cytan smirks at Vost's saying.
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'WWII was started by the English'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'was the president of austria when his assassination sparked ww1'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'sorry, archduke of austria'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'and a great band *grin vost*'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'though the serbians triggered the events leading to WWI, WWI was started '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost snickers with Cytan about their shared secret.
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'though the serbians triggered the events leading to WWI, WWI was started by'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'likely the English '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'yes... by killing archduke franz ferdinand.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'its like someone is repeating what im saying.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'did the English fund the serbians'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, WW1 was started because of an unintended consequence.  So many pacts and agreements were made between so many entities that when the fighting started everybody panicked.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hanslanda attempts to do an obfuscation coverup of what may've happened'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some countries didn't actually know who they were supposed to kill or save, so they just started picking randomly.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'reference?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which part?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'you only made one statement so... that one.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hanslanda attempts to enact a Chicken Little "the sky is falling" distraction coverup'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: '<--- ftw.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Who killed Cock Robin"  "Who started WWI"  "The sky is falling!"  "They panicked!"  -- lots of obsfuscation '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'should take on obamas predecessor at this point'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I actually made two statements, Cytan.  The first one can be found in any school textbook.  Imperialism lead to nervous governments making deals with other governments to either avoid aggression or to jump in as an ally.  With the amount of dealing going on, coupled with the naked land grabs, it was a wonder WW1 didn't start many years earlier.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that textbook was likely written by the English, and they are going to obfuscate and not confess to their dastardly guilt  (but Judgement Day is coming)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those history textbooks were likely commissioned by those that are guilty of the crimes, and they are going to obfuscate and not confess to their dastardly guilt.  The victors of wars and conflicts prefer there be some lies and obfuscation in their history books where their guilt is concerned.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'been 5 minutes so assuming there really wasn't a second statement.  covering any debate by "its in any school book" to answer that countries started randomly killing and saving as the explanation of what started world war 1 is fairly undebatable.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'if thats debating, well... christians are right.  bible says so.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'go!'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but almost excellent obfuscation (until somebody challenges the attempt at obfuscation)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cytan: 'still not seeing the debate, or argument.  or references behind the argument.  at that point, its meaningless rants.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade is the queen of meaningless rants, Cytan'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are the Senate GOPs insisting on an Iran Sanctions vote/'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'posturing for votes or publicity'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fucking stupid thing to posture for - war/sanctions against Iran are not popular'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'play the "whack-a-mole" game, where unpopular politicians expressing unpopular or unwanted opinions are .. criticised with expletives!  '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is male, a king of meaningful rants!
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'queen'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is heterosexual male, and a pervertphobe
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who debates like a queen'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'answer: Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was no question mark, it was a statement'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"we are not amused"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a woman in a san francisco bar was attacked for wearing google gass'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts cheers and sings... he is just BURSTING with joy!
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Never mind the Bollocks, here comes the Sex Pistols  "Belsen was a gasser"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think to the NFL threatening to take the superbowl away from Phoenix because of Arizona's proposed new law on gays'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'depends, what does this law say'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when the southern states show staunch Christian values that made the USa great ...'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically protects people and corporations from lawsuits targetting them because they refused service on grounds of religion (such as in the case of refusing service to gays)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'depends on what services'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what depends on what services?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'depends on how "bundled" are the services and refusals'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Any service from what I understand, from buying things in their store, eating at their restaurants, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a shame that a law was necessary'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Haven't read the full law myself but apparently it leaves it open for government workers to refuse services as well.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you do not like Arizona, go to another state'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'amused me that the NFL took a stance against it, i guess it proves how gay american football is, but we already knew that'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were in arizona i wouldn't be losing any sleep over it'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that is iffy as a government worker - is the refusal "state government policy" or a "personal refusal" on the whim of the government worker'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government is not mandating refusal'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts mumbled some gooblededook using bigwords .. "mandating"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a jolly sensible law to me'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything that attempts to reduce the litigiousness (is that a word?) of society is a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'By institutionalizing the marginalization of a segment of society?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't do either'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the difficulty is that the government service may become inconsistent depending of which government employee was providing the service that shift'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm guessing that governments might write into contracts that you can't pick and choose'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact the only people likely to get any benefit from the law is small business owners '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the RCC schools do not require to hire sexperverts as teachers '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with common core probably doesn't matter, your kids are going to be dumb'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the RCC schools do not require to hire militant atheists as teachers either'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welcome to the national curriculum, come join the UK in the hotseat to academic oblivion and no hope for our kids'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government-elect in the UK have members that want to ban private education because they believe it unfair that parents should be able to pay to give their kids a competitive advantage'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same political party that already outlawed state run schools from selecting intake based on ability'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the protection of private schools is required'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guess which party this was :-)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and who the analogous party is in the USA)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't think the U.S. has a political party that would outlaw private schools.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'exception: terrorist muslim schools are not to be protected'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Well the democrats are analogous to the UK labour party, Malkar, so it's not beyond the pale - they're about 20 years behind un so far with this common core bollocks'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and democrat states are toying with the idea of banning or essentially banning homeschooling'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the UK Labour party is likely infiltrated with communist moles and subversives'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'used to be, zade, now infiltrated with globalist corporate fascists'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Oh shit, not the commies!'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is still by far and away the most authoritarian of the UK parties'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it's difficult to get a cigarette paper between them all on most issues'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Cussbert, this *was* a polite debate '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the commies are winning'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Sorry man, it's a habit. When I see people talking about commies like they're subversive boogey-men I just can't help but think they're joking.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Please, continue being paranoid and insane.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well of course that's nonsense, cuthbert, constitutionalists, libertarians and patriots are the subversive boogey-men these days, please do try and keep up with what your government is telling you'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or is the government the boogey-man these days?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Saint Cuthbert is Canadian, his government doesn't say much of anything to anyone.
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Emm.
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in reality'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't much wrong in the world that isn't the fault of too much or bad government'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Cuthbert is a clueless canadian -- the Canadian government says a lot (quietly)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the canadian government gave the uk government MArk Carney, that's grounds for war right there'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "quietness" is able to be "deafening" (hence the quietness)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"constitutionalists, libertarians and patriots" are merely facades'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'facades to an agenda, or various agendas, or facades to whackjobs'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'agenda is a plural word'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'except in the USa, where the hilbillies er Americans add an s to pluralise words'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, you are the one who used it...'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they also drop redundent "l"s'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you DO know we're the ones fucking up your countries, right?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so "hilbily" ?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'Who is?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Americans.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'Dude we are fucking up our own country its the UN not us messing with them'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we drive your cars, we make your food, we watch you when you sleep (and awake, but shh!)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'I dont understand'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hrm, "agendums" as another plural of "agenda"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh, where'd you find that'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'agenda is the (latin) plural of agendum, but usually in English taken as a singular. '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"there are an agenda," said the USamerican, "to teach the world American English."'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Zade doesn't listen to enough Fox News.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The debate channel is not enough.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"is it true that .." and "isn't it true that" seems to be answered by the same "yes" or "no" answer in a "Perry Mason" episode'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're lawyers.  By the time they get done letting words fall out of their mouth they already know how you'll answer.  They're playing you.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that's because 'is it true that' and 'isn't it true that' are asking the same question with different implications. The first is a straightforward request for information. The second assumes it is likely true and asks the second person for confirmation.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lawyers know how to make no mean yes and yes mean no.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps "Matlock" tv episodes also, as though irregardless of the extra or redundent negative'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Majic, i did not read the crappy Amerincanski English textbook where that dubiously doubtful explanation was given'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Given that you just used 'irregardless' and spelled 'redundant' incorrectly, I think you calling an English textbook 'crappy' is a good recommendation.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there likely are some obscure? logic rules that determine where -ant and -ent are used'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is obviously a (slight? or major) difference in meaning between -ant and -ent'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whether this is definAtely or definitely the case is likely more than mere pedantic etymology'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'plausible new textbook: "How to speak and write American (or bad) English"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"irregardless" is an Americanism'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so are fortune cookies'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps "redundent" (<-misspelt) is a more plural form of "redundant" (<-- properly spelt) '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'i agree with that Zade'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Or perhaps it's just an incorrect spelling that you're trying to BS away.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'Majic do you know the secret of words?'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Tenaichie.
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Which one?  :)'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they all have a code you can parse out after staring at them long enough for your eyes to dry out.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'About the Context, the intent behind the word'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's called slang, and it varies by region, country, even ethnicity.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'It can also be highly problematic if the person is not a skilled user of English, due to either lack of education or speaking English as a foreign language, especially online where we do not have the context provided by body language.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'thousands of American words, for example, are derived from the gold rush, the mississippi river system, and the wild west.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'in this circumstance yes but the context of the words all i ask is that youbthink od what that means'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Shirley not "all"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, all of them.'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are going to do a "Humpty Dumpty", don't be a "Popper"-accursed post-modernist'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not everybody is able to do an "HP Lovecraft"'
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Stephen Colbert" is not a good enough role-model '
T3/r7/2014-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you know "poker" is an american slang term?'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what news, debate?'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, no real important news today, that's an ominous sign'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no real news? except the latest SCOTUS erosion of the 4th amendment.'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'low pay comission in the UK totally capitulated to the government and suggested only a 3% rise in the minimum wage'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest? which?'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'police can search your house against your express objection without a warrant if another resident gives them consent'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that has changed from what situation?'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the exact reverse of that'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the distinction they made is in this case the objecting owner/resident was no longer present (because they had since arrested him).'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Fernandez v california.'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, well that's dodgy, but not unsurmountable'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i guess technically it is yesterday's news not todays but whatever'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the opinion issued yesterday, but it hit the news today primarily'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so need to make sure that everyone in your household knows to refuse police a search without a warrant, still boils down to the same thing: know your rights and exercise them'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yeah but its going to come back and bite them in the butt in some case with estranged coresidents and police shortcutting the warrant system'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in the case at bar it seems pretty clear that any reasonable judge would have issued a warrant if the police had sought one'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police need to be prosecuted for violations, not just sued'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps then they'll take their job a little more seriously'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but there will come a case where they will use this ruling to justify some idiotic behavior'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenaichie: 'I agree Nuts of the Tiger'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think the limits on what they can be sued or prosecuted for is about correct in the law today'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course I also think it would be a lot better if those limits were actually used instead of the much more lax standards that get used by most prosecutors'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well clearly not, Emm, since even where they've beaten people bloody they only seem to end up paying out money, which come from the taxpayer anyway'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'rodney king cops were prosecuted'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should fucking hope so'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more recent cases they haven't been'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the rules as written are pretty clear and I think would work well if actually enforced'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '(well in most jurisdictions, NM has some screwy stuff in thier police protection laws)'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't look at american news sites without on an almost daily basis finding news stories where a policeman has either threatened violence, or actually beaten someone up and not been prosecuted'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the problem is that prosecutors enjoy wide discretion (which is useful for when they are dealing with normal citizens, but can be problematic when they are dealing with people they work with day in and day out).'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their discretion almost always finds leniency for cops when the opposite should happen - cops must be held to at the very least the same standard, if not much higher standards than the public'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes, and I think that prosecuters should have significantly reduced discretion when the alleged criminal behavior is from police.'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest pack of lies from harry reid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mSJOLivL-NU'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sorry i gotta jet im late for class.'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, latest news: Obama to ask NSA to expand the US public phone recording system'
T3/r7/2014-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so what do you make of the news media in the US billing the proposed budget reductions for the army as "the army is poised to be reduced to the smallest it has been since pre-WWII?'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gooood'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'Who thinks russia is about to invade ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia won't invade ukraine, though they might take crimea'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm glad that the kid who was prevented from handing out pocket constitutions at his college campus and harassed by the security staff got a payout of $50k'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, UK intelligence has been snooping on your fapping your mushroom tip on webcam since 2008'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'according to Democrats, everyone feeling pain from Obamacare is a liar.'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'According to Republicans the death panels should have prevented this problem.'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'GW Bush and Cheney said that "torture by the USA is not torture".  So "pain from Obamacare is not pain",  And "the Republicans are liars".  (loosely paraphrased)'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the SCOTUS is extremely corrupt and crook'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'per usual'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't think there is any evidence that they are corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'would be pretty funny if the top lawyers couldn't cover their tracks.'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Malkar is obviously visually impaired or morally impaired -- or maybe Malkar sees a "new defence" for those at Nuremberg '
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'new one-liner humor: The difference between SCOTUS and the nazis on trial at Nuremberg  -- the SCOTUS yet requires to be put on trial convicted and h***ed for crimes against humanity'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'looking at past history, there were extremely bad decisions in "Law" -- and those bad "law" decisions are indications (perhaps proof) of crook and corruption'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'which channel in aardwolf brings out the worst in people?'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'echo'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I say all the worst shit there'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. never noticed'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'echo is monitored and used for polite conversation '
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'this echo channel is great'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup, all sorts of debauchery going on there'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that singing frog on LoonyTunes -- did he publish a vinyl records of his songs'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hello my baby'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Hello my baby, Hello my darling, Hello my Clementine"'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Everybody do the Michigan Rag.'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that singing haity monster also sings a few great songs '
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'which singing monster?'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"In the spinga, i got a thinga, i gotta singa ..." '
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"In the springa, i got a thinga, i gotta singa ..." '
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I have "One Froggy Evening" in DVD'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I didn't really like that owls songs.'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: '"Sturdy little place this house of brick, built in 1776, high class place with a high class crowd, sign on the door no wolves allowed."'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'DVD not as good as audiophile AAA vinyl'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'missed a chance to buy "Friggin in the Riggin" by the SexPistols as a single on 12" vinyl - darn darn darn'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the cabin boy was flipper'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich sound on that 12" single is likely fantastic'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Good night, I have work in the morning. *Wave*'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a great hifi sound (on 10inch 78rpm? vinyl) is "A star falls from heaven" by Richard Tauber  - the modern technology versions are iffy -- perhaps there is something about that genuine crackling background 78rpm sound '
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some audiophiles like their music strong and pure and uncut, "the real thing",  and not  chopped shredded and pureed by digital sampling'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"The Real Thing"  by Russell Morris, in which the radio broadcast version was far better, with good old Adolf ranting in the "added" background (of the radio version) - controversial humor'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'may've been another one-hit wonder, like "Something in the Air" by Thunderclap Newman'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when i purchase songs, i often purchase for the single song, not the album -- and when an album contains lots of great songs, likely a decent group and or compilation'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a lot of great gems out there, in the "passed"'
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is waiting for high-quality analog music to make a comeback, so Zade may fly and get high
T3/r7/2014-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'either that or the end of the world'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade might get high quality analogue music when the rest of us get high quality computer hardware and software not made in china that hasn't got built in spytech in it'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cool, militia loyal to Russia have taken over the airport in Crimea'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-02-26.html'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a very true and important assessment that would not only be true applied to the US, but also here in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'haha, you read ann coulter non-ironically :' D'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was a tongue in cheek piece, but it was also true'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would venture to say it was a statement of the blindingly obvious, but lefties don't appear to see such things'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I can't get to it for some reason -- but commentary around the web suggests that it's an "it's all the fault of immigration" argument'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's ann coulter. she's fucking insane'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, we should stop low wage people coming in, but let high skilled people through'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or extremely cynical. who knows'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but the US already does that -- the low skilled workers all come in illegally'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and no one wants to stop it because how would all the people who could stop it get their houses cleaned?'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I've never heard of her? Who is she?'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'oh, a professional complainer, yep, now I understand'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have legal low skilled immigration here because we're members of the EU, but the net result is the same. Foreigners come in take low wage jobs forcing wages down. Local low skilled workers end up being paid welfare, low paid workers get paid welfare to make up their wages. Government basically ends up subsidising corporate profits as a result'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I hate to use a phrase that starts "It is obvious that..." but it is obvious that that would happen'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it is obvious that your view is too simplistic'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but alas, nobody wants to change it in power because it benefits big business because they get corporate welfare through taxation of the public, the lefties in government won't change it because people on welfare vote for them'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's too simplistic, please let us know where the assessment is incorrect'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the presence of a greater population increases the demand for products & services'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it also puts greater demands on limited resource and public services'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your statement is clearly crap because any system that is dependent on unending growth in population is by it's nature an unsustainable system'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'also, the immigrants tend to be young working age people rather than the elderly who rely only pensions and benefits'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true, but see previous'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'again, your view is too simplistic'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing simplistic here is your method of disagreement'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you are using a straw man argument'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh? what's the strawman?'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I have not described a system that is dependent on unending growth in population'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have too'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(Debate) Vost: 'the presence of a greater population increases the demand for products & services''
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's when you misrepresent someone's argument, nuts'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'sure, but no ad infinitum, and not "dependent" '
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then where are the bounds?'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that's for the political scientists and economists to model'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, great'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they do such a fucking great job'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the term "political scientist" is a non-sequitur'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about you listen to some actual scientists?'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you mean oxymoron, not non-sequitur'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'actual scientists like ann coulter :D'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ann Coulter is a political commentator, not a scientist'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's like an AMerican Melanie Phillips'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but just so we all understand what you're saying, is that despite the examples of Australia and New Zealand having lower unemployment than the EU/US and much higher minimum wages and a tight immigration system based on required skills is BETTER than the US/EU immigration police of largely unrestricted movement of unskilled labour leading to low wages and necessary stepping in of government with welfare because this policy is not understood because it's not as simple as that, and only political scientists and economists know the limits to which immigration should taken'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while i'm happy to admit that there is far more detail involved, i would love to see the logic gymnastics required to prove your case without hiding behind "trust the politicans, they know better than you"'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'h 1'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'any system that depends on unending (lowskill) immigration that leads to unending population increases is likely defective'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an immigration system that requires immigrants be highly-skilled and intelligent, is likely superior to a system that permits lowclass unskilled physical labour as immigrants'
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hightly-skilled immigration may cause difficulties in the depleted locations from where the immigrants came '
T3/r7/2014-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the immigration topic is difficult to discuss within politically-correct strictures  -- perhaps if the god of the Apocalypse were to act as a moderator and kill off a lot of excess humans ... '
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avieta: 'do we really have free will?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yawn'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Amorok turns cowlike eyes on you, chews his cud, and moos plaintively.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is looking for a coward.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari raises his hand.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's new?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much, western media getting all uppity at Russia troops in Crimea'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same old hypocritical fake offence-taking'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'russia... They doing what people with guns are sapposed to be doing'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what might that be?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'shooting people? or starting wars?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'i dont know? Starting wars? '
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no war has started, no violence has been had'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'no war? Crap....'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry, i don't read much world news, national news is messed up already. what happened?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ukrainean protests, their president sent packing and a pro-EU government containing many fascists and bankers has been instated. Russia already had military bases in Crimea where the population is predominantly Russian, which used to be part of Russia until 1957, have quietly taken over most of the infrastructure there and is digging in'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thanks.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think there's any blame here - if the people of west/central ukraine rise up against their government out-of-band, then it cannot be fair that other governments recognise that transition as legitimate and not at the same time respect the wishes of Crimeans to want an alternative arrangement'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'why are we manufacturing weapons if we talk keep saying "were at peace"? Are we preparing for WWIII or another war of some sort?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is manufacturing weapons?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'because we're paranoid and cynical.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you mean the US, it has been in a permanent state of emergency since the 1970s'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Weapons are needed to defend against terrorists (= Ron Paul, conservatives, libertarians, christians, constitutionalists)'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'oh, and veterans, of course'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might want to read up on what a state of emergency allows the federal government to do which it couldn't do otherwise'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all know how violent that christian faith is, Tinada'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'so*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who how unlawful and criminal those people who believe in the constitution are'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'devil-worshippers, the lot of them'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'christians are not so dangerous anymore'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'really?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'no... not the ones i see... its the extreamists we must be keep watching'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, you don't understand, all those groups tinada mentioned ARE the extremists, terrorists to be watched and victimised'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not our opinion, that is the intelligence of your government'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you must remember, the first priority of government security/intelligence apparatus is NOT to protect the population, but to preserve/insure/expand the power of the government'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'never mind if the people need it, will it keep them in power?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'blatantly obvious, at least on my end.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not sure about all countries.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's true in many western countries, though many don't have the american tradition so such strong overt measures aren't necessary'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the important part of the process is to get as many of the public as possible dependant upon government to live'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in the end even the best systems fall to human flaws.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what was meant to give power to the people is still in the end twisted to other ends.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'do we realy need the goverment?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, amorok'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'even in a small group there is a leader.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whereever you have a population large enough that they interact, you need some sort of governance to arbitrate between them'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'see the social contract.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'otherwise there will be chaos as the people fight amongst themselves for their own benefit.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'You're in charge of an independant nation. Do you side with Russia or Ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'neither.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Justify?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '1/5 of Ukraine sides with Russia..'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'best to steer clear of these problems.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as being dragged into them doesn't tend to bring good results to the nation.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Since I'm generally on the side of rights to self-determination, I'd have so support an orderly breakup if that's what people want'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think that if Crimea itself has a majority that wants to leave ukraine, i'd say go for it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as otherwise would only incite hatred amongst people who don't want to be a part of the group, and causes later problems.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Hm. You've rendered the devil's advocate thing pretty moot. Do you think Russia will be happy with just Crimea?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: '"happy"'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the idea is that i won't participate, but my personal opinion is for the people's majority.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a country ought not be ruined by a single man's personal opinion.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Mm. I get that. A nice meeting with tea where Crimea votes to become part of Russia and the rest get to join the EU would be the best thing to happen. It seems as if Russia's threatening more, and thus virtually every other country seems to feel like they need to dust their guns off, though.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'You ever look around at the people around you and go 'Wow. Stuff would be so much better if we were the world's leaders'?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Not since I was in High School'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no, for power will corrupt me, i refuse to lead a nation when i know i can be corrupted.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when a country should never be governed by a singular person, nor a group of similar people '
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the Crimean people should decide Crimea's fate.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Meh. I dunno you, but I find it hard to believe that every sensible person would power mad and then not see a terrible decision when it came up.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'neighbours may mix their communities but that doesn't mean that the state must be divided. russia is a bully, always been. and they will continue acting that way if they are allowed to.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if you're talking about the idea that Russia will never settle for otherwise. i'm sorry, i speak ideals, for that is what you are asking for, what i would ideally hope for.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'No, it's fine. It's still interesting to hear.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Hwuai, a large majority of the Crimean Pennisula is virtually Russian.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'sometimes i think politicians are more interested in being re-elected and having more authority than they are interested in working for the people that elected them'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and by sometimes, i mean "100% of the time)'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'time"*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'acknowledged.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'im not an expert of ukraine's history. now is the time to look into it i guess. cant say anything now:p'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's very much so, because to be elected, they nominate themselves, it's not about the cointries future, rather the thirst for power.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'ukraine was gifted crimea some 40? 50? years ago'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'debate Err.. '54, it was turned over.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'which begs the question, what was it originally? whose right? i think that if you look back long enough, all the world was undivided, so no one has rights to anything cause they owned it first, unless stipulated in original agreement.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'for instance Taiwan.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'we should really just give 1/3 of asia back to mongolia, amirite?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'meh.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I have to go, actually. Thanks for saying things at me. do pobachennya'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what about Babylon and alexander.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'see you.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'well, crimea was more or less independant from ukraine anyway. now russia is taking it. simple'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'should russia take it cause it's independent from Ukraine? What gives them the right?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'and the ethnic russians are like 54%. wikipedia:p. so, its not enough'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what's a similarity here?  unrest in china leads to british forces to show up in hong kong?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'similarity between?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'firstly, ethicnity is hard to define.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'trying to think of a situation similar to the one we're discussing, so parrallels could be drawn'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'secondly, wikipedia doesn't always show accurate/up-to-date info.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I thought wikipedias word was gold'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not entirely, best to look for multiple sources.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '54% russians doesnt mean they all agree being a part of russia. might be 30%.. or something. who knows?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'are you suggesting that crimea, which was gifted to Ukraine with no say in the matter, should not be reacquired by russia while ukraine is in collapse?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i know, jopari'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i used ":p"'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'just because there are (probably) 54% of russians doesn't mean the other 46% completely disagrees either.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'this isn't exactly something you stop and run a gallop poll on...'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'scars, honestly, i think it's up to Crimea, Russia should not force temptation onto weak people.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's akin to the devil.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'are you certain crimea didn't request it?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'thats what sucks. but russia is a bully. and if they LET them do that, there will be no end'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'all nations with power are bullies to nations without power, that's how it works anymore'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i wouldn't be sure, since i don't pay a lot of attention to world news, laughing to hard at national news.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'true scars'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's how it's been since the dawn of mankind Scars.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'example... america sides with rebel forces in syria... we tempt syrian rebels to continue'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's for personal profit really, America got it's fortune through war.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the question is somewhat a matter of "should" a nation with power offer up assistance to the side they want to win?  and that answer is purely a matter of perspective'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'spin it however you want *shrug* ... doesn't change the story, really'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'while pondering...don't forget to realize that during the American Revolution we had people come to our aid'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'spinning it? you're the one who said it's a matter of perspective.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'because they didn't like Britain, yeah.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'doesn't change the fact'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'without the french fighting the brits back in europe, and without the germans training and supplying our troops in north america... there's zero chance we win that war'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but why did the germans help? we paid them.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'why did the french help? they hated the brits.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'are those good reasons? depends on perspective.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i pretty much emphasized that it's a matter of choice among the populace of Crimea, how that managed to spin things is beyond me.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there you go with perspective again.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in a sense, everything is true.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'i missed 'the perspective' part'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'how do you propose we get a feel for what the crimean populace wants?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how? that depends.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'do you not think there would be consequences for choosing one side over another?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'do you suggest we defer to the crimean government... since i'm sure those politicians would be interested in representing their people and not self preservation'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there would of course be, but then you're asking which side they should be on?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i don't know what side they *should* be on'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you don't know, i know that, but you are asking right?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'defer to the government, dubious choice at best.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm asking you how we are to find out what they want, since you think it's their choice, how should they articulate that'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i could say door to door questioning, i could say polls, and the hundreds of methods in between. but i'm not going to, because i'm talking about an ideal, which is impossible to obtain.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'door to door answers could be changed, polls could be rigged, etc, etc,etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'ah, i guess i didn't realize we were just pondering shit for the hell of it ... i think we were discussing current events and our opinions as to what pragmatic and realistic solutions should be on the table'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'each solution contains another problem.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'my fault :) carry on'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i thought***'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'nuke them from orbit then shoot anything that moves (they will glow in the dark at that point so easy to see).'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'mob rule and uninformed decision making as always be the ideal way to solve problems'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'pragmatic and realisticly, i say let them duke it out, it'll go either way.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so we want to ignore america's interests in having russia v ukraine win that fight?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'correction: it'll go russia's way if no one intervenes.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'why do we care honestly?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'natural gas prices?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'we, as in america, or we, as in western europe?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we as in america'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then i got no say in this.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I know why europe could care'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but not why the US should be the heavy handed world cop for europe's interest'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'america cares both because of europe and russia....friend v foe'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'usually shit like this is explained by something like "we need to help serve the interests of our allies, for that's the interests of america"'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nod'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ukraine is hardly our friend'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'western europe cares, therefore america cares'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's not ukraine who's the friend...it's europe'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'although that relationship isn't exactly reciprocated'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if the EU wants to have it's way then the EU should do something about it'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'EU lacks military force, would have to turn to NATO'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'or the UN'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'EU lacks military force?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and america == NATO, UN'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'UN has no soldiers of it's own.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'EU has something like 10 times as much military force as all of europe did when it launched world war 2'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and the aftermath?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there was a RIF.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'just because the US has more military force than the next 16 countries combined does not mean that noone else has any military'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the EU military is effectively a gentlemen's agreement of EU nations to work together... which ahs yet to be tested'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm not saying europe has no military, i'm saying the entity that is the European Union has yet to call it's military up to work on something'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats not true the EU has sent military to several places (granted not in the numbers it would take to intervene in the Ukraine issue.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'can you point to one where the EU banner was taken? i'm not finding one very quickly'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I don't see this being resolved militarily'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'according to the interwebs there have been 34 to date'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'found a wiki link on it, we're seeing the same thing... my fault then'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'money is the root of the problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'http://www.csdpmap.eu/mission-chart'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if europe wants america's help, they'll pull some NATO shit on this'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course none of those are on the scale that ukraine would be'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is some argument to be made that if EU went into ukraine it would start WWIII'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then UN would supposedly step in before that step was taken.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'i'm not nec comparing them...but it is reminiscent of Hitler's first move.......and no...I don't think Putin is Hitler and this is the start of WWIII'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the UN is a waste of goddamn time and money imo'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'true story.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as a cynic i would agree.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's hard enough to get two different races to get along well.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'getting two religions to get along isn't exactly a cake walk'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it hasn't succeded yet.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'America has been at war for 13 years... i participated personally in 4 years of that... i really, really hope that IF something crazy happens in Ukraine... we let Europe figure it out'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not to mention splinter religions.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but i know better...'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my guess is if europe tries to do something the US will end up having to clean it up in a year or two'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's what I mean when I don't think it'll be resolved militarily.....I can't see us at the moment (USA) putting fighting troops on the ground there'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they want to make it known their heavyweights.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'all we need to do is choose who we want to win, and then show up and kill the other guys'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that all scars?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they're not their please'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they're*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'doesn't always happen that way, remember Vietnam?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry emm, i made a slight typo.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'you realize that the reason we "lost" vietnam was because of events in america, not in vietnam?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not sure that's entirely true either'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but the events in america were because of Vietnam'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'vietnam was incredibly complicated scars'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'to say it was because of events in america is to grossly oversimplify the world political situation'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the events in america caused public support for the war to completely die off, and the politicians acted in self preservation and ordered the troops to fully withdraw'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'hippie movement, national guard killing some college kids, etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the fact that the various forces arrayed against "us" in north vietnam made the "war" a much less one-sided victory walk certainly had something to do with it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'but there's no gaurantee that we would have 'won' even if events in America hadn't existed'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'none of that was the enemy beating america, it was america beating america'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari is agreeing with that Creestux person again...
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'wars of attritution do not guarantee victory....we learned that in Vietnam'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the reason america fought america was because the war was getting drawn out and people were sent home in coffins or not at all.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'we lost more people in just the european theatre of ww2 than we did in all of vietnam'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'guerilla warfare was especially proven there.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yet we still decided to see that war through to the end because it didn't take as long'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'yes but Vietnam was not WWII'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and because it had greater consequences'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'WW2 had more at stake'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'comparing the two is apples and oranges in the scope'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'valid point in regards to support though'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'undeerstand what mean'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'what i'm pointing to is the human loss... vietnam did not cost us nearly as many lives as ww2 in just the european theatre... and the vietnam took place over a much longer period of time'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there was a much bigger war propaganda machine for WW2 as well'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'had ww2 had embedded journalists showing carnage at night every day... showing people d-day invasion horror at 8pm news... then what?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'scars, the Vietnam war is not at a sufficient scale to campare to WW2'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'war propoganda gets the public to look away from young men crying out for their moms, missing limbs... and look to "battle of the blah" was won! america presses forward!'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'well...didn't get the carnage of the vietnam war that was shown....that's when the media truly became part...Korea to an extent before that'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the stakes were different, the people saw the war as a waste of time.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the vietnam war was not intially unpopular'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it became so when they realised it wasn't their war and that they're soldiers were dying at a high rate compared to the Vietkong proportionately'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry emm their*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '...and as you mentioned...guerilla warfare changed the landscape'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'in WW2, why did america go to europe?  the war in the pacific was ours... the japanese attacked us, we fought back (and then some...)'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'exactly, superior tactics needled the opposition beyond what they were willing to lose.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'was the european theatre really "america's war" ?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's a debatable question....lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because "holy shit, they're taking over ALL of Europe", and what would be next?...which is a lot easier to support than "Let's help these poor south vietnamese from the danger to the north"'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Should Germany have won, they'd have proceeded to attack America.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'we now know that Hitler had interests in America'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'self-preservation ran rampant '
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so if the domino theory had been correct, would it have taken until indonesia to justify american intervention?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'but I'd go with the answer of money'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nothing gets people involved like money'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'or the loss thereof'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'honestly, vietnam wasn't intending world domination.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'vietnam was all about the cold war'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'domino theory suggested thta communism would continue to spread throughout SE asia if vietnam fell to it'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'fight of communism'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'right creestux'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'therefore, they felt threatened, but in the end the people didn't see it as a war against communism'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if communism had spread, due largely to chinese influence at the time, to SE asia... and the domino theory had been correct, at what point does america step in? would it ever be appropriate?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so that would justify to the citizens that their children ought to die in mass numbers proportionate to the Vietcong?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'to prevent it from growing/spreading to our shores, yes'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's no question about that...scars is just asking "when?"'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'complicated....it's more than the idea of communism at that point....it's about the nukes......had nuclear weapons not been introduced into the picture we may not have had a lot of 'fight' in us to address communism like we did'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'teh answer at the time... "when" = Vietnam'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i'm asking what your answer hypothetically would have been'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'Vietnam? Laos? Singapore? Thailand? Indonesia? Australia?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'India?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the fact that the USSR cld introduce nuclear weapons into a friendly communist country is ultimately why we railed against communism'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hypothetically, it would have been difficult to conclude a time, but i would wonder why a talk on comparing ww2 to vietnam, which stemmed somewhere else, is now branching off into an unrelated direction'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'we seem to have gone way off topic.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i brought up ww2 to demonstrate how the human cost of a war can be ignored/accepted'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nature of the beast'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'we didn't lose as many people in vietnam as many seem to think'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what unrelated direction? hes's showing that the response of "WW2 is way different in scope to vietnam" isn't necessarily the case'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'communism was brought up re vietnam'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'right, then it was said that europe had better justification'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'and i'm saying that fighting communism was, at the time anyway, valid justification'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it did have better justification, simply because the question of "when" didn't happen to come up after we pulled out'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'alright i need to draw a branching of the debate on a piece of paper, clear my head.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if they steamrolled south vietnam and kept going, then we'd seriously reconsider'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'too late Jopari...you've lost your seat at the UN'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'whereas Germany DID steamroll France and was about to get England to surrender'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's even worse than you think, jopari...it also branched into immtalk totally separately'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the french were fighting the vietnam war before america did'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm guessing because both channels are default red'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wait, how would vietnam fall cause communism to conquer the world again?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry then'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'momentum'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elaborate.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if they decided to keep going, which was the big fear'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'same as in korean war'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'paranoid Americans to a degree'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'why was vietnam trying to go communist -> chinese influence'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and in lots of almost-wars since'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no, how would the momentum carry, what would the momentum be?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'just that another country 'falls' to ....'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'who's next?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it could've gone the way of Germany in WW2...what was the momentum with every country he conquered?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that communism was better? that a country turned because of China'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'success begets success? fewer resources spent nation-building in one country means you have more resources to nation-build the next'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'military might, alarming effectiveness in his military endaevors.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods...it was a 'ours is betters' vs them situation'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then i fail to see how winning a fight shows that there are less resources spent nation building.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'but then you throw the threat of nuclear weapons on top of that and it grows'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and being able to concentrate that military in particular spots and no longer have to worry about other spots'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'at which point, the citizens refuse to serve the governments's ego'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's sometimes easier said than done when dealing with communism'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the individual lacks resources'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thereby showing a reason why the vietnam war was stopped by the populace'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the USSR military of the time rivalled WW2 Germany's in effectiveness'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but it wasn't just an individual.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'who recieved resources from outside'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elaborate, i don't quite get it, Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Let's put it this way...have you ever played Risk?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'good game'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not really.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I guess we know where scars went'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but i know the concept.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it demonstrates this quite clearly...as has every major power that has come and gone in the past 6,000 years'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: ';)'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Creestux, where?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the gq win'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ahh'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'was referring to...'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nod'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as the roman empire took over one spot, they used conscription to make their might greater, to reduce the now-homeland opposition'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry, Abelinc, stuck here.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as Napoleon did the same, the same outcome'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'all of this stemmed from the ukraine situation... so i'm gonig to bring this full circle and say that Ukraine will probably cause EU v Russia war'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I'm guessing we'll just see a lot of sanctitions and the like'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so there will be a war with ukraine then?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sorry, not sure how much differently I can describe the repeated history of the entire world and how it could have played out exactly the same way :P'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'a war over ukraine, not necessarily with ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'which may or may not grow into WW2'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ww3*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'alright, i get it Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well that was a very roundabout way to do prove the point.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'as I said earlier, it is reminescent of Hitler.....large population of supporters who identify with Russia....use to be part of....etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'gah, i need to gain wisdom, what do you mean Creestux?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, ukraine should've done this back when Georgia was having their thing'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'was referring to part of Czech...sudentland or however you spell it'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'large German populace'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ahh, i get it, thanks.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's obviously more involved than that lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but at least i understand the concept.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'essentially....shld be part of Germany because of ancestry/populace etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ancesry is dubious, as it depends how far you look.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'true true'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'history has often been bent for personal gain.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'here it's even worse.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but it's how the people identify themselves, not really that you can just point them to ancestry.com and say "See? You're really this over here"'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'our government kinda rewrites history.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods...it become as much cultural as anything else'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i could argue that you were once african, since scientific studies suggest that mankind started in africa.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'careful now....lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gotta do a whole propaganda campaign "Hey, remember how badly you were treated by xxx?", and some people will remember being treated badly even if they weren't, etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's about right.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'thereby disenfranchising them from the party you don't like'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: ''we faught the nazis''
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'we is 'we''
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'doh...who is 'we''
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: ''we' are us.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'they are them?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'clearly'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'indeed'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'oversimplification, which a lot of people will take.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'since no one likes complicated stuff'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'too bad we can't live in the now, as that's problematic too.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not to start a whole political mess...try to avoid the actually 'politics' of it...but i've heard people complaining about Obama already....I'm not saying those are warranted or unwarranted....leaving politics out of it....what would you have our President do?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I don't think anyone wants troops on the ground'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not at liberty to say, don't know about american politics too much.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i've heard bad things about him, but hearsay is never reliable'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's tricky....America and our politics....'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the only person who wants troops on the ground is the guy that has never been in battle.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'most times your damned if you do and damned if you don't'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'most soldier will attest that they don't want to fight another war.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I was just curious....seems like people like to complain about things more than anything else'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'of course, human nature to complain'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'didn't know what viable options people were behind....again, wasn't making politics the subject but rather the recourse'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'this could've been done better, that was the wrong choice.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'etc,etc,etc.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I understand Russia's concern'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and perhaps we're misreading the intent'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in a sense, everything is true'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'quote (the dictionary of bullshit)'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'anyone know how much money Russia has actually handed over?  not pledged but actually given'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'handed over to Ukraine that is'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'where's abelinc and scars?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'other channel probably'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i honestly wouldn't know.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and i don't trust wikipedia.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'same...I'll have to go looking at some point'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'wiki prob ok starting point....they've gotten better imo'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'got to follow on from there though'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wiki's always been fine for what it is, a tying-together resource...just gotta follow the citations [27]'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'rofl re 27'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'indeed'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I agree....it gets some undue criticism'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not a primary source, but it's often the best place to GET a primary source'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'oh well, i guess i'll google, wiki and read up on some news'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods....usually general knowledge that you branch from'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'saw where they were asking about opinions for paying editors the other day'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not sure how I feel about that'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'paying editors?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not sure i'd like that, who is to say the editor hasn't personal agendas, then again, everyone who edits it has a personal agenda, meh, leave it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods...it's double edged'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can never get rid of agendas out of publications, wwhether media, political, or scientific'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I agree to an extent'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'keeping it minimal is the goal....not sure how money would influence that'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we're all biased as individuals, the best way to organizationally combat it is to attempt to not have one bias outweigh another'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or you can try to make your beliefs as explicit as possible and argue in favour of them, then switch and argue against etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for on-staff editors, the question is whether those editors are just devoting more time to the effort, or whether they have more pull in what gets put in'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'playing devil's advocate is always good'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'after 3-4 switches I don't really care anymore..'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari raises an eyebrow.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you don't care about the discussion in particular, but you still have a personal bias...'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'subconscious, since machines can't edit stuff...yet'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Completely eliminating bias is not a practical goal, but you can minimize it by switching back and forth and trying to step outside your method'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for discissions like here, I'll usually just start out being on the side of whatever comment I find most interesting that catches my eye'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that's about as good as it gets'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'common sense isn't so common anymore imo'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..and rather better than your typical scientist'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I will never talk about my politics/religious beliefs, merely about politics and religious beliefs'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'good rule....you're never suppose to talk about either in 'polite company'.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm never in polite company :P'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'ditto'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'surely in the US you can talk about your opinions as long as they are PC opinions..'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'we don't care if pc or not'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'meh, i just need to make sure i can't be traced when i say it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and we'll actually argue about that'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'we do like to argue'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'this is the debate channel.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'Americans'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that reminds me I was going to make a list of conventional wisdom/political correctness'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the majority is always wrong, after all'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'This isn't the debate room, this is the insult room!'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'meh, i need to finish my chemistry or die tommorrow, see you all.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada comforts Jopari.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'just exactly what kind of project you got going there?  Should we call national security?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Arnica hopes Jopari knows how to waft
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i am still in school, NSA can rest assured.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'DEA?  cooking meth?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'Sarah Palin: 'I told you so on Ukraine'.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i must confess, i've always wondered how it feels to get high.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'crickets'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'complaining about obama on grounds of what?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's so much to complain about, was interested to know what about'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'reaction'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'how would people have him respond'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to what?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's quite easy'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'saw pple complaing already'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '...but didn't want to get all political....wondered what pple considered options'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'big business/gop will want him to throw nukes, libertarians and proper thinkers will want him to stay out, democrats will want him to open the brders'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '...and there's the politics I was trying to avoid'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's the president, please tell me how he is going to avoid the politics'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you asking, what SHOULD he do?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'He should consult the Grays'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'phone'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'sec'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're asking what he SHOULD do in the interests of the US, Ukraine, and the wider world (in that order) then i'd say (other than NOT spending 5 billion dollars over the last 20 years trying to ferment regime change there) get out, stay the fuck out, and leave it alone - possibly side wit Russia with splitting off Crimea as part of a permanent settlement'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then we have something akin to england with the vikings, permanent, yeah right.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'permanentish'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crimea was russian and is ethnically still russian'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'bak'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the gift that keeps on giving'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'yes he's our President and thus it is inherently political....but that doesn't mean you have to bring the political party fighting and pointing into the discussion of what options should be on the table'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'as I said before, American politics is becoming more and more 'damned if you do, damned if you don't''
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'never going to make 100 percent of the people happy though....I understand this'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and yes Crimea was Russia.....but Russia gave it away'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'is it free season to take back what you've given away?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'history depends on perspective, namely how far you look back.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'get that chemistry homework done!'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Creestux prods Jopari into action!
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'couple of calcs, yeah, i guess i am.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'are we still discussing ukraine.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: '?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hello?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'hello?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's going on?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'shrug....was afk'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'meh.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i see tha channel is back to normal.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it works in spurts'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'this is where i get most my general knowledge.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that is not good......lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'on other countries at least, since we have so many varying opinions.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'ah....follow'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'current events come up a lot'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my own national news i can easily note, world news, not so much.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'ah'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'besides, national news leaves me too angered or laughing to continue'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's not uncommon anywhere I imagine'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's new on your side?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'are you procrastinating by any chance?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Creestux grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hmm, let me check the dictionary, and i'll get back to you.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not really, what would i delay?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'you may what to on that one .... i'm jesting of course'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'chem?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not 'dieing tomorrow''
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the exams the week after, i'll freeze jopari'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'ah..lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '...but then you'll have to play with your alt'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no alt, i get frustrated when i press kob and nothing happens.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dying tommorow is with chem homework, which is bloody tedious.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's what I thought you were logging for'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'calc, calc, calc, ooh, periodic table, calc.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you thought right.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'you'll use that a lot in life'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol...actually you might but...'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'meh, depends on my ambition, and how deep i need to know.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods....tis why I said 'actually''
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'fact is you might....but majority don't'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hah, i remember reading national news and coming across an article that said they were revising exams to allow more thought processes.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i saw they're questions, absolutely no thinking required, nothing required, and i just happened to be the last year of student to use the original exams.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'their*'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'was going to say something related a minute ago.....while you might not use the info, doing the processes and understanding is just as important'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari sighs.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the process itself'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you're right, understanding is useful in education'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but our education system is based on remembering, and now, no thinking is really required, nor knowledge.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'probably a reaction to all the 'teaching for the test' debate going on'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the next generation is screwed.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'you hope it's the NEXT one'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Creestux ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'true, i've heard it said i'm the generation.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol ....you'll be fine'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'time goes on'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my gen is the one with higher suicide rates, and thos who're disconnected from reality.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'time shall pass, and life will go on.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not saying it's not higher but have to also remember that we're in a 24/7 news era......everything is made news now including those suicides....wasn't always the case though'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'when did we start keeping records.....where they all reported....etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heh, true, but we now have problems with internet addiction.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'again, not saying it's not higher....i expect it to be higher just based on our fast paced world compared to the past'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'people need to slow down'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the greatest problem today is that science collects knowledge faster than society collects wisdom.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there's some truth to that for sure'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'can't remember who said that, but true.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I get so aggrevated over the state of education in the US'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's it like?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'really not sure anymore'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'as to the actual classes/classroom'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'been a while....but what should be common accepted knowledge isn't always'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'earth is flat test?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'perhaps'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's just disheartening'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'frustrating as well'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i've seen news on seriel killers who have absolutely no remorse and kill for 'fun'.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'sociopaths'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'education is what brings society to become human, not simply knowledge.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i remember debating a topic on violent video games yesterday.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'like aardwolf?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in school, debate society.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'missed that'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'violent video games ......aardwolf...was a joke'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'What on earth are you two debating exactly?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nothing, just kinda talking.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'education, sociopaths, next generation, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you have a topic?'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'didn't want to leave J talking to himself'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'first sign of madness.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's when you start answering yourself'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think i honestly would.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'eh....madness is all relative'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'talking to ones self is the only guarantee of a sensible answer'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'true in a sense, but talking to others is the only way to get newaterial and gather philosophies and convincing arguments.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol...at least perceived'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '..and therein lies the madness'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'just because a thousand peopke have the same vices doesn't make them virtues.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'vice versa though'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thus you discover the flaw in true democracy'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'true.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no, i discover the flaw in all mankind's machinations.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'No, the only flaw in mankind's machinations is refusing to take responsibility for an action'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'for the vices and perception of madness leads us to always destroy that which was meant to help.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'depends on what those actions are'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i doubt it's the only one.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'mankind's machinations are many, and all share flaws in design or implementation.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well, i can call that attempt to start debate as failed.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think i'll go to sleep now, it's 2a.m. night.'
T3/r7/2014-03-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lats'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, western media accuses Russia of "invading" Crimea'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and then came the threats of sanctions, quickly backpedalled by the UK government when they figured out it would hurt them more than the Ruskies'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'this was actually predicted by that know-nothing Sarah Palin before Obama won the presidency.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what was, Ukraine breakup?'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Russia invading Ukraine.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Democrats said it wouldn't happen, it was too far-fetched.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because democrats on the whole are retarded'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also said unchecked immigration would benefit the country and that obamacare wouldn't raise your premiums. They said you could keep your plan and your doctor'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also think that you can reduce pollution by closing down tightly regulated coal power stations in the USA and instead import the energy from Mexico where coal power stations are less regulated'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also think the constitution is something that only applies when it's convenient for them'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they're lame'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you hear how the finance experts are panicking over stocks again?  They're trying to sell the idea that we're heading to another great depression.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well stock panic benefits one class of people - stockbrokers/hedge fund managers'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, technically not another GD, but they claim what we saw a few years ago isn't over nor is it the worst we'll see.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stock markets are priced in local currency, so while you keep printing money and devaluing the dollar, so the stock market will remain buoyant'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'upwards of 50% loss of wealth for the average person.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't mean stocks are worth any more in real terms'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from what? a crash?'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, they're scared we'll become a bigger Greece or Nigeria.'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will, eventually, but you'll be among the last to go'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll probably be world wars before you need to worry about that'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though you might just have open rebellion before either of those two'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone under the age of 40 who doesn't already have land in the countryside has no future already'
T3/r7/2014-03-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not worth worrying about much after that'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'any predictions on how everything will play out in ukrain?'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I am sure that Tigernuts knows'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, crash tests have shown that external air bags reduce damage to vehicles by up to 35 %.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lyrion: 'Does anyone here live in Russia? If so, I genuinely want to learn how the whole Ukraine situation is seen from the point of view of the average Russian.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see the media is still hyping the indefensibly hypocritical stance nato is taking over Crimea'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, England chief medical nazi demands a sugar tax'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'How come UKers do so badly at the Olympics ?'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'UK did well'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'geneology'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the UK Olympic Committee was aiming for 3 medals'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'and won 4'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're more concerned with who they're related to.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'winter olympics? we have no snow in winter and no mountains'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and they won 1 or 2 in the last winter olympics.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'neither does Jamaica.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and how many medals did Jamaica bag?'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Scotland has hills.....'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'exactly zero'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'generally we're too impoverished and browbeaten to have spare time and money to waste on gay winter games'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'aside from the year that Cool Running was based on, dunno.  They did take a medal that year, though.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i fail to see the point, then :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'His point should have been Belarus'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not sure they made it to Sochi on account of a lack of sponsorship, but they still had a bobsledding team.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Canada does well inthe olympics.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts says there are no mountains in Scotland, and may've insulted the Scotts wearing kilts by calling the Winter Olympics gay  (loosely paraphrased)'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'South Park gay!'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're not mountains, they're highlands.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'moonshine is getting popular again in the  US....outside of the appalachian area where it has always been popular.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas just added a new sales tax to mixed drinks in the state, on top of the alcohol tax that is on per gallon, and the distribution tax on alcohol sales.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a gallon of good well made 180 proof moonshine.....$100 if made from corn....$150 or more if fruit was used.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Texas intends to drive the alcohol business out of the state'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, the black market will take over, like with drugs.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'alcohol taxes are a major ripoff in the US.'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your alcohol taxes are neglible'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you guys always complain about how high your taxes are when in reality they're a pittance compared to much of europe'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote democrat again and see how high they can really go'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they* not th'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'fermented bean curd'
T3/r7/2014-03-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'should the US get involved in Ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Glockster: 'sup'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner ner'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ftse is down, dow is down. socks are up, pants are down'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has John Kerry been on telly tonight yet running around in circles going "pbbbbtt, moomm!! Putin started it! he smells of poo!"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'think that's a week from Saturday.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he does seem to do it a lot'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's like the USA's Kim Jong Un'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or the USA's former Iraq Information Minister under Saddam Hussein -remember him?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'How can the government deny the benefits of medical marijuana even as it holds a patent for those very same benefits?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because just like a lightsaber or blaster gun there are far too many idiots who would do something stupid with it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am talking about long run effects'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'oops'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and besides, would mari be as desirable if pain relief didn't come with a side effect of getting hi?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'of course it would, as medicine....there are 2 major chemicals in marijuana....one that dulls pain and helps you, and one that makes you high.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm.. honestly. every chill drug is bad. even if its completely harmless. hippies are the lowest type of human beings'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can reduce the thc that makes you high, and increase the other that doesnt.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Baell: 'I OBJECT'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Baell: '...what we talkin about?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hippies know caps lock i see'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Baell: 'i am not a hippie'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i am. i hate myself'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then there's the whole smoking thing.  By and large those who are pro-mj and anti-tobacco still seem to think smoke inhalation is a bad thing.  We could get around that by marketing a kid-friendly pot in, say, pill or gummy form.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Baell: 'this thing is used more then music channem=l'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because pot isn't bad.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Baell: 'chanel*'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sensible for kiddies'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'someday we will have chewing gums and candies laced with the chemicals in marijuana, except low levels of the THC chemical that makes you high.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they have smokeless marijuana now.  Not sure if it's injected or just a liquid form, though.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You can buy foods laced with liquid marijuana right now, but it is of the normal THC marijuana plants.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i fail to see the point of contention'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they have medicinal varieties that don't get you high at all.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's no good :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they keep getting swept up in the "misunderstanding" surrounding street pot and the types of pot that get you high.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty big difference'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mind you, big difference here between street pot and decent organic strains'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that wasn't the point, Tiger.  The relationship made in my comment was that mj legislation was not making the distinction between high pot and unhigh pot'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'someday when you drinkyour gatorade, it willhave marijuana chemicals in it....or your power drinks.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, hans, it's dumb, but then, it should be removed from the bad drugs list'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I really doubt even the pot enthusiasts will be willing to ever claim pot is a health food.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i always hesitate to smoke one. i think if it helps a lot when there's a lot of stress but if its fine, then its overkill and really wasted. speaking about the high and the morning after that.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but the main point was, the US Govt owns a patent on a chemical treatment for concussions and other traumas using marijuana......and yet says there are no known medical uses for marijuana which is why it is a schedule 1 drug.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and what about the secondhand smoke?  Californians have gone absolutely bonkers over secondhand smoke, but with pot it's okay?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'second hand smoke legislation is a seriously big crock of shit'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as is the schedule 1 thing'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all know why it's schedule 1 and it has nothing to do with harm, actual or perceived'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you don't think there is any potential effect of second hand smoke tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the samereason why alcohol wasbanned during prohibition, or why hemp was banned.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Follow the money.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the link is at best tenuous, certainly not worthy of the hypochondriac obsession they have with it'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are far worse things out there needing legislating, like industrial pollution of the water supply and biosphere'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but if there is any effect at all shouldn't you have to contract with everyone who will come in contact with your second hand smoke or be in violation of the non-aggression principle?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like the dumping of rat poison in your water supply'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts speaks as though a callous chronic-polluter'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could say the same about having bad breath, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I could, and I do'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or having a cold'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smoking around non smokers should be a social faux par, the law needn't be involved'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is some question of whether having a cold is a voluntary action though'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so you aren't a libertarian then'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Actually, the reason the govt bans smoking in public is not for your health from inhaling second hand smoke.....it has to do with control, govt wants keep making moeny from tobacco taxes, but wants to control it todeath to keep people smoking at home.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't subscribe to absolutes, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'either you subscribe to the non-agression principle or you don't.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i subscribe to using a bit of common sense'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so if there was a 1 in 1000 chance of everytime you smoked in public someone would die as a result'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there isn't'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Many governors have already said in public that they hate smoking, and want it banned completely,but it makes so much money in taxes that it cant be banned, so smoking in public has to be banned to prevent kids from smoking.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'would that be enough to make it necessary for you to get permission from anyone who is exposed?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am not saying that there is'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rizgoth speaks as though another callous polluter, attempting to spiout lies on the reasons of Government policies'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although there certainly is SOME risk'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't smoke, by the way'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, there isn't'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I just want to know what level of risk you are okay with exposing people to without their permission'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What about e-cigs ?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I never do'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'oops'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Plain old nicotine isnt going to killyou. :p'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not something that could be quantified'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it can be quantified and has bene'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(actually, it can, Rizgoth)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ecigs are the electric cars of smoking.  Plain chemicals with a byproduct of water.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I can cite the studies if you would like'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that smoke in public desrve to be convicted of attempted murder and publically flogged until almost dead'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you have a greater chance of dying from breathing than from actually dying from nicotine from a cigar or tobacco product.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's pretty weird that they want to ban ecigs, claiming a health issue.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'both lab experiments with mice and monkeys, and statistical studies based on enacments of the bans'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the weight of medical evidence is shows that the increase in cancer due to second hand smoke is -barely- mathematically significant'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the ecig thing is based on speculation not science'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rizgoth lies'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the ecig ban has nothing to do with health'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there have been NO studies showing any increase in mortality or other health effect from second hand exposure to eliquid vapor'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's to do with a bunch of do-good fucknuts who want to micromanage your life'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernutd lies'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts lies and lies'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'thats probably true tigernuts (about the do-good fucknuts), but that doesn't change the science'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there have probably been no studies that show e-cigarettes are safe.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is a statistically significant correlation between exposure to second-hand cigarette smoke and total life expectancy, cancer mortality rates, and several other conditions'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is small but significant.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Who wants to invest in my new e-tobacco juice company ?  We are going to have all kinds of flavors.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said, there are far bigger things to obsess over, emm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't disagree that there are, I just disagree that that is a good argument against the stupid laws.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the thing about large statistical populations is that since you're only sampling the population you need only find the subset that matches what you're expecting to find.  A legitimate sample size in a population of 100 is, what, 10? 20?  Given privacy concerns, it seems like a pretty easy way to skew results to your liking.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't require legislation'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think the argument to be made is that forcing businesses to ban smoking does more economic damage than the value of the lives it saves'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like you don't need a law banning people from putting their arm in a blender'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since the likely economic effect is in the billions per year and the lives is likely in the single digits per year'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or a law banning people from waving their cock about on main street on the second thursday of every month'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'erm, how do you get an economic impact from a smokeless environment?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'both of those things are illegal in every jurisdiction I am aware of'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'bar sales primarily'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'putting your arm in a blender is not illegal here'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I'm not sure about the billions, Some people are more likely to visit resteraunts that don't allow smoking, thus it can have a positive economic impact.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'again I can point you to the studies if you would like to see them'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'adopting an smoking ban in bars and resturaunts strongly correlates with declining gross sales in those businesses in the jursidiction'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when you chronically smoke nicotine or marijuana in the presence of humans that dislike nicotine or marijuana, you desrrve to die horridly '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's a cheery soul, isn't he?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'on private property the property owner should have the right to decide and those that don't want to be exposed have the right to not frequent the establishment'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'public property bans are completely legit'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only reason it's reasonable to ban it in bars/restaurants is the workers'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'put Tigernuts arm into a blender - second-hand blendering'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'again the workers can choose to get jobs at places that ban it'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is no reason the government needs to be involved there'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't guarantee no coersion, and can't counteract insurance'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I favour banning smoking for the sake of the workers.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'public places, or places serving a public function ban away'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an imperfect solution, but we live in an imperfect world where sometimes ideology has to compromise with pragmatism'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'private property bans are violations of liberty'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade avoids restuarants that permit polluting the customers inside
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'somewhere (LA?  Definitely it was somewhere in California) they tried to make it a fine offense to let your secondhand smoke travel onto someone else's property.  Dunno if that ever passed.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and they are violations of the takings clause'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a typical piece of democrat bullshittery to me, Hans'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it already is it is called trespass and nuisance laws'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but its not criminal its just civil'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I can absolutely sue you if your smoke is entering my property and actually causing me harm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if similar laws were to gain steam, I don't really seeing health inspectors allowing exceptions should they detect unacceptable levels of secondhand smoke on the premises of places not allowed to have any.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's unlikely you would be able to prove it, Emm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'be that as it may'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"Oh, false alarm, guys.  This isn't your secondhand smoke."'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'forensics!'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well time to go home be back on in 30 minutes or so'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'forensics is also detecting the crimes of pollution after the fact'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you try a civil lawsuit based on that, you're probably very rich'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and probably retarded'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or incarcerated.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade contemplates getting rich $$$kaching$$$ and beggaring chronic polluters
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'planning on prosecuting yourself, Zade?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade prosecutes Tigernuts
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'find it vaguely amusing that the people you see that are the most voiciferous about pollution and fake-green issues tend to be the very same people that have the highest pollution impact on the world (people with consumerist lifestyles, throwaway celebrity culture, having lots of kids)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'fishing for information in the dark, eh .. tsk tsk'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US has reduced its co2 emissions from 2005 to current, while european countries that adopted expensive pro green policies have not.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade disbelieves Rizgoth
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'natgas is changing the co2 outlook in the US, frak em high!'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'don't stir up the conspiracists'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the oceans are burping up more methane than realized.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Germany is spending $32 billion a year subsidizing its solar energy program.....and it just said that it cannot afford to do it any longer so the program is being cut.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'wouldn't that solar energy make up for the costs by reducing the costs of other power sources?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the money needs to go into r&d...not plants'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'plants are important'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the German govt buys the power from the solar panel installers as it is produced.....it now costs the govt $32 billion over the cost of natgas energy.  per year.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the new solar plant that just went online in California went obsolete as soon as the ribbon was cut.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Tigernuts thank the British Intelligence for more for making the NSA look good, if you don't want to e-mail them just hold a note up to your webcam for five minutes. :)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with a subsidy, crooks eventually attempt to defraud the subsidy -- so reducing the subsidy is smart'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'well then the Germans went backwards since World War II'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'on top of that, the company that took the dive to make that plant a reality sank similar money into another project that probably won't even open because of changes in technology making that particular path a dead-end.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the problem was, the solar program in Germany was super popular.....they installed millions of watts of solar panels each year on german roofs.....now the bills are coming due.....:p'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and here we are in the US with a 100+ year supply of new natgas because we invested in natgas drilling technology rd.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'now some of that r&d needs to go towards solar tech'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Rizgoth is almost suggesting there is natgas underneath the European landmass'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'solar is booming in the US, though.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it also doesnt help that Germany is abandoning its nuclear program, and replacing them with big coal plants.....which means their co2 levels will be going up even faster....at least 50% higher last year.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There is shale gas almost everywhere.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'but as I recall solar and wind energy require a whole lot of those things in order for them to supply enough energy'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'wind is crap imo'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Europeans likely do not want polluted ground water from frak accidents'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'better than nothing I suppose'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Right now, there are 32 known shale natgas deposits under the US.....and new ones are being found every year.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'still....long term potential is way below solar'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'all energy sources have negative side effects making them crap in a way.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have fracking on my land, and my water is fine, no bubbles at all...was hoping for some good bubbly water :('
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'one of these days they should make bigass factories with a lot of treadmills or stationary bikes, where thousands of people run or ride in alternating shifts to generate energy. The end of jobless people world wide and a clean and free energy source.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade suspects that Sargeras did not do a feasibiliy study on that seeming nonsense
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a motionless solar panel with no overhead (a deliberate pun) produces electricity, and if those are not earning enough money, a gym full of freeloading cyclists and treadmill runners is not going pay for even the overhead'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'no no I mean like bigass factories of humans generating power'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those factories are not cheap to run, and the CEO salaries alone are going to bankrupt the project'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'yeah. In South Africa these morons constantly strike for more and more and more money. Our economy is falling apart because they stop mining to demand more. So those energy clean ways won't work here'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the african natives want more money (pennies?) to mine the mines to make the europeans (that stole er appropriated the mines) richer'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'whaaat? Europeans got there before 'muricans to exploit other countries national resources? Are them yanks getting slow?!'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'white europeans seem to believe that treasures and minerals in Africa and South America belong to white europeans, as though the natives did not own any mineral or treasure rights -- '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those treasure hunter movies are disturbing'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: '''The meek shall inherit the earth, but not it's mineral rights'''
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they got to California before the Spanish, but Queen LizI didn't want to start a war with them yet so she told Drake not to rap about it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'well most minerals weren't used by natives, the Europeans wanted those minerals and would stop at nothing for profit. Spain grew quite rich out of the loot it got from the Central America natives. The Aztecs were obsessed with gold.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so is the fact that the Spanish are not yet ruined and obliterated a proof that there is no god, or is the smiting yet to come (at say Armegeddon).  Perhaps the Spanish were commissioned by some (false) god to do the dastardly in South America.  Some say god uses or permits the wicked to ravage and destroy the wicked. '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'rhetorically speaking .. if there is a god, why is there so much wickedness '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who says god is all good?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the major religions'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '*gasp*'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'debate and more importantly who says your definition of wickedness and god's is the same?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'no higher power is involved. The human race is but a plague that destroys the very ground that sustains it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'people have been using religion for thousands of years to explain things they could not understand. Alot has been cleared by science but many still cling to old ways.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'maybe the native people of south america offended god by their idolatry and human sacrifices and the spanish were sent there to punish them'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how would that be inconsistent with a god that will send you to be tortured for eternity for having insufficient charity'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'the Aztecs and Mayans pleased THEIR gods by sacrificing.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'see, better bet on the right horse ;)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which is why pascals wager is a suckers bet'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and perhaps the Spanish by being extremely wicked Catholics (The Inquisition) were permitted to condemn themselves further by more wickedness in Souh America'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'trully there is no right horse. Every culture has it's own beliefs and each of them think they are correct.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'the Inquisition thought themselves the hand of god. Religion is as strong a weapon as anything else.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'god is nothing and everything.  He is neither good nor evil, he is both good and evil.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well that is moral relativism sargeras which is demonstrably false'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is no good and evil only power and those too weak to take it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'greed is good my friends'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gorun: 'God is good on a level that we cant comprehend'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'god is a figment of your imagination'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'true that Emm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gorun: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, he is not.  We can understand him just fine, because we are he.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if someone's figment turns out to match reality then so be it, but debating it is as pointless as tits on a steer.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'so we are gods now? That's what Anton Levey's Satanism teaches us. Are you a Satanist?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'Religion has been debated for centuries'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade the grammar-balrog says: use punctuation   (as when say (mis)quoting famous sayings)
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its also the teachings of the cult of the universal subconcious mind'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, I am God.  In collaboration with my fellow humans, I lend my strength to his image to bring comfort to others.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'He is made in my image.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yeah that sounds more like satanism hanslanda'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and personally I prefer modal sheets not satin ones :)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'Satin and Satan aren't the same'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'says you'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'you think Satin sheets will choke you in your sleep?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'santa clause is how the devil dresses up to confuse mortals and lure them into committing the sins of greed and envy'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade mangles a famous lie: "There is neither good nor evil.  There is powah, and those too weak to take the powah!"
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'alot of people point that out'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I bet if we lifted Emm's skirts she'd have woolen granny panties on.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'define powah?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'awesome moves on the dance floor, driven by a techno beat.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I bet if you lifted my skirts I would shoot you in the head a whole bunch of times.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'this is a debate channel. If you can't debate without getting offended it's not for you.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who got offended?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'serious discussion is only allowed to continue here if it doesn't get out of hand.  Mostly this channel is for having fun.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'the bloke insulting ye 'olde undergarments'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'surely not Annie Oakley'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'then the term of Debate is lost in this place'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'annie oakley is one of my heroins '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Shirley is not Annie Oakley'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, but games are never a good place to voice serious concerns.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'res ipso loquitor zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'this channel is for serious debating'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'this channel is for whimsical smokeblowing'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'are we going to debate the purpose of the debate channel?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'that's a start'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'shouldn't some serious channels remain serious for those who seriously need it's seriousness?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I like to use it to voice arguments to see if ... intellectually challenged ... individuals like Zade can poke holes in them'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the prior "whimsical" debate, Emm used the "red herring" of the RCC? false god which allegedly sends victims to be tortured for a long while for insufficient charity'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'if you ain't nice enough you'll burn at some point right?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the interesting rhetorical connundrum is "who says the decent human definition of wickedness and god's is the same."'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'isn't that what I said about 30 minutes ago zade?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you did not yet expand on that rhetoric'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'is there need for expansion?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if so I refer you to the Euthypro'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '(I think I misspelled that badly)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'is it good because god loves it or does god love it because it is good.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'looking at the past several hundred lines of debate, that was the only interesting .. almost insight'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'spiffy I had an almost insight'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'frankly religion isn't that interesting to me, but it was the subject of the day so i jumped in'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if that is the direction that Euthypro went, then the connundrum is not answered'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I am much more interested in the appropriate role of Article I, section 8, on the application of patents to plants that necessarily involve new generations and new patents every year or two'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which is to say since monsanto has a defacto perpetual patent on corn and other grains does that violate the "for a limited time" clause of article I section 89'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which is to say since monsanto has a defacto perpetual patent on corn and other grains does that violate the "for a limited time" clause of article I section 8'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'would a reasonable person still consider an entity as human (and thus inheriting all associated rights and priveleges) if, outside of some rare disease, it had claws and fur?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sargeras: 'perhaps a new sub-species?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the interpretion may depend on whether monsanto is able to bribe and or coerce the politicians, (either with money and or other incentives and disincentives)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'practically that might be true, but in principle it isn't zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my question is, does '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my question is, does "for a limited time" have any force or effect'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is that schoolwork or an actual case'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'at what point should SCOTUS say, this is not "a limited time"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't think anyone has ever argued the "for a limited time" question in front of the supremes'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'SCOTUS is crook and corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they might have in copyright law, but not in patent'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there was a case where a company applied for trade dress protection for an expired utility patent where SCOTUS disallowed it on other grounds'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but you can read between the lines in the opinion that they didn't like the idea of a patent stopping competitors from using an invention for 20 years and then trade dress stopping them from using it forever after'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would argue that case could have been decided on article I section 8 "for a limited time" grounds'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'patents are supposed to expire'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they do expire, 7 years for some, 10 for some, and 20 for most'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but a patent on a plant that changes from generation to generation and is repatented every few years defacto does not expire'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as evidenced by the fact that the vast majority of the corn grown in this country for the past 60 years has been "round up ready" patented corn'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the SCOTUS was likely superior, as then perhaps both apply: "limited time" and "denial of trade dress"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'leaving aside the anti-trust issues, there is a problem with what amounts to a patent that extends forever'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless you are hinting that usage of "denial of trade dress" did not sufficiently uphold "for a limited time"  (but in fact did)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as i said before, human patents are supposed to expire'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a twenty year patent is too long'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think they should be based on a reasonable recovery time for the industry'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'a 20 year patent on something that takes 15 years to bring to market is reasonable, a 20 year patent on something that is not useful to anyone 2 years later is not'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope, the company is supposed to factor in the expiry date of the patent, and not be greedy'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if a product takes 15 years to bring to market, the patent holders were slacking'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'pretending that companies should make decisions on any grounds besides their own long term economic self interest is ignorant'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'courts/congress should determine what a reasonable length of time for each form of IP and each industry and set them there'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i'm sdaying that companies are not to expect continued profits past the expiry date of the patent'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so a patent on perinial plants should last 2 or 3 years at most, but patents on a new kind of scotch should last 40 years'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the current debate aside, i dislike the patenting of the *obvious* on a firstcome-firstserved basis -- those patents are to be disallowed'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well technically according to section 103 all patents must be "non-obvious" in order to issue.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the patenting of gnome sequences is a crook and extremely corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but myriad stretches the concept of non-obviousness to the breaking point'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'genome'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we don't patent gnomes as far as I am aware'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'except maybe the plastic lawn variety'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the myriad case says patents on "isolated and purified" gene sequences are not patentable because they are not patentable subject matter'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but they should have said none of this crap is patentable because it is all obvious'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ick cp tp in db'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the patenting of gnome sequences was supposed to be done by Governments and government-funded universities on a public-domain basis (that is "no patents permitted" on genome sequences), not by private companies'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'please please please call them genome sequences not gnome sequences zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it just sets my teeth on edge to see them called gnome sequences'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what is in a genome sequence is fixed and thus "obvious" '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i flash a picture of a bunch of the expedia gnomes getting patented'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there is nothing wrong with patenting man made genome sequences'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if they are literally created by man and have never existed in nature'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'assuming they are also useful'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'novel, non-obvious, and useful, those are the pillars'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if it exists in nature it fails on both of the first two'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but if like chakrabati you create a new sequence by splicing dna from different species, or otherwise chemically altering the structure'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you have made something that is novel, and probably non-obvious'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so as long as it is useful the patent should issue'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'even if, as in the case of chakrabati the government won't let you ever make any more because they are afraid it will eat all the oil in the world'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(if) chakrabati eats oil spills -- interesting'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'chakrabati is the scientist, his bacteria eats oil, whether it would ever work in as chaotic an environment as an oil spill remains to be seen'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but the USG won't let him use it anyway and his patent has long since expired'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the possibility that the relatively frail version he created could mutate into a hearty version that would then "infect" every oil reserve in the world and decimate them was to catastrophic of a possibility to entertain'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'even though the liklihood was probably on the order of 10^60'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there was a much better chance that the LHC would create a runaway blackhole that ate the solarsystem'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'what do you mean nope?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'runaway black holes are a fiction'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"Life always finds a way.", Emm.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'says who?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade  
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'zade I would really like to see your source on the impossibility of a runaway blackhole'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my understanding is that it is not only possible but we now have a pretty good idea of the size of a supercolider it would take to make one'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'mind yout it is one the size of jupiter so its kind of a pointless distinction'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'LHC never had enough power to create black holes, but even if it could their size would mean they could never gobble up enough material to stick around for very long nor could they ever significantly impact their environment (a la the "traditional" black hole of astronomical size) beyond perhaps subtle damage of the LHC tunnel.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I agree hanslanda, but we didn't know that for sure until we ran the first LHC tests'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no "we" there'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'we were betting everything on an untested theory of a dude in a wheelchair who talks like a robot'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Actually, Hawkings doesn't believe in black holes.  at least not in the way most physicists do'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the wheelchair guy likely went senile'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the fact that hawking is the smartest guy in the world notwithstanding'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he recently changed his stance on them, he didn't ever not believe in them.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'wtf does that mean madcatz'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i am pretty sure every scientist believes in blackholes since we can detect them easily nowdays'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you just mean he thinks they follow different rules than everyone else that I will buy.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it means he thinks they're portals to other dimensions (the whole black hole<-->white hole thing).'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'most people define a black hole by their presence of a event horizon'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when the wheelchair guy was talking of small black holes existing (on earth), that was senility speaking -- may've repented and recovered since that senility'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'hawkings claims that there's no such thing as an event horizon'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is ridiculous'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'at least, not a permanent one'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'show me a source'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '"not a permanent one" is a huge difference'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just google Hawking apparent event horizon.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'he released his notes on his talk that he did in August of last year'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'but yeah, I'm sure google can find them for you'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course there isn't a permenant one since they shift based on the mass'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/technology&id=9407566'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"not permanent" as in "only produces temporary effects that are observable with a telescope"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i have no problem believing he said there isn't a permanant event horizon, I have a real problem with the assertion that there isn't one ever'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'but not actually having the properties of an event horizon'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the cliff notes of it is that while from way back here we can see the event horizon and all that it does/effects, if you were to actually go there and cross over you wouldn't see or otherwise  notice anything.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the whole white hole, black hole thing is just bunk'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"no event horizon" - that is interesting -- good concept to demolish those science-nutters that believe 3d images may be mapped onto event horizons (the "no informatuion is lost" crap-theory)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'other than the fact that gravity would have killed you well before you got htere?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that was a Hawking theory, Zade, one that nearly cost Hawking his career.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so he repented and recanted'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no zade he gathered more data and updated his theory'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, he didn't, actually.  Hawking finally won that debate.  Something like 30 years later.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so he hornswaggled them with gooblededook ?!?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'a "black hole" is so called because nothing (or, in particular,) light can escape from any point inside the event horizon.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'hawkings is claiming that there is no such point in a black hole from which light can't escape'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'i.e. in laymans' terms, no black holes'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hawkings may be senile after all'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'but rather, it escapes as radiaion'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'which also happens to solve the information paradox'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Black holes likely do not believe in Hawkings'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'but just that the information contained in the radiation is just indecipherable'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'yes the hawking radiation thing (which we now have some evidence for) is what we were betting on being true to prevent a tiny black hole from growing into a supermassive one'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "no information is lost" theory is a crap theory'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'yes, but he's now claiming that EVERYTHING gets emitted through this radiation'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a tiny black hole is not massive enough to remain existent'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'which is a hugely different claim than it just being there'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a tiny black hole is not massive enough to remain existent as a black hole'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'only if you accept the hawking radiation theory zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'without accepting '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is a black hole and nothing can escape from it it can only grow and will never decay'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade doubts whether any micro black holes were created on earth (other that the nucleus of atoms - which are not black holes)
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xaeris doubts Zade has any scientific background.
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Zaeris is wrong'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the only possible options without something being able to escape from the black holes is permanant stability (if nothing can get close enough to enter), and runaway expansion (if stuff can)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'or, like you just said 5 minutes ago, Hawking radiation'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'which causes the black hole to lose mass, not expand'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'first off, what is the minimum size of a blackhole from which no light may escape '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'first off, what is the minimum mass of a blackhole from which no light may escape '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'according to hawking, there isn't one'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ff'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Emm nods at Madcatz.
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'rephrase, what is the minimum mass of a (stable) blackhole from which most light does not escape'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would say one plank length in diameter, and two plank-mass in mass'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'whether either of those measurements actually exist is a matter for debate of course'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'But then the radius would be half a plank length'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz nods quietly to himself.  What a wacko.
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no the radius would be undefined'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since by definition there can be nothing smaller than a plank-length'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and the mass of this alleged plank length diameter object'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'two plank-mass-units'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in otherwords if you have the smallest discrete unit of volume, and put two of the smallest discrete unit of mass into it you have a superdense object'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'technically, you can go smaller than a planck length, it just creates a black hole'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'and by "technically", I mean "theoretically", of course'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but of course this makes all sorts of assumptions about the nature of existence that I cannot support execpt with a mathematical model that while internally consistent has no practical connection to reality'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Which is sort of the opposite, but hey'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which is bigger in size and heavier in mass, the nucleus of an iron atom or a plank-length object posing as a blackhole'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'no zade we are talking about measurements much smaller than those used for protons much less nuclii'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the scientist nutters are positing ludicrous assumptions based on symbolic equations which are likely conjectured in science fiction'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and madcatz I prefer the thoery that plank-length is the smallest discrete dimensional measurement'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and plank-second is the smallest discrete unit of time'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the two are related by C'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but of course at this stage we are talking about comparing models that may have no connection to reality so the most you can say is, "my model is more aesthetically pleasing, and is internally consistent"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'The value is kind of just arbitrary in my mind, though.  If it's the planck length, then we have no way to show that it's the planck length, since any measurement tool (i.e. protons) couldn't have that short of a wavelength'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but if we define it as the distance that something travelling at c travels in a plank-second it all makes sense'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some that small and not massive is not going to do anyhing much'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'because there is a metaphysical limit at that point'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'protons are huge behemoths, did you also mean mesons (electrons, etc)?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'And how are you defining a planck second, then?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'And you can't say "How long it takes something traveling C to go a planck distance"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'll'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the minimum duration of any constant universal state'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'blackholes the size of photons - likely not on earth  except in science-fiction  "Zade puts the black hole ray gun on GOBBLE and pulls the trigger"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Again, that's kind of arbitrary.  You obviously wouldn't be able to measure it, because doing so would require photons with smaller than planck length protons'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'i.e. a black hole'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I mean, I understand if you want to define it that way'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'But how do you then place a number on it?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'without just pulling one out of Plancks butt?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the blackhole discussion is "barmy"'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as though the scientists are silently saying "here is a ludicrous theory, but you guys are not smart enough to see what crap the theory is because of the symbolism and equations used which require a graduate degree to begin to comprehend"  (almost like the King's New Clothes, almost)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'too afraid to say "religion", Zade? :P'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to believe in micro blackholes creatable on earth using colliders is similar to a false religion'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as opposed to a true religion?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are no true religions'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'all religions are false'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'then why put the word false in your statement'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'do you believe that with all your heart?  There's no hope of anyone ever convincing you otherwise?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but regardless the two are not at all similiar'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'because believing in the one leads to testable predictions which if they are falsified should lead to an end to the belief'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'while as belief in the other typically requires you to take as a premise that anything that contradicts it is necessarily false.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the ranks of the scientific are filling up with premises we can't really test yet, as one builds upon the other to continue the lines of theory.  That's quite a lot similar to religion.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with scientific logic, "Religion" is able to be proven false'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Science and Religion are different'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'some can be, because they lend themselves to testable predictions, but very few make that mistake'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although I am not sure what "scientific logic" means'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'is it something different than normal logic?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Religion prefers to rely on hearsay of authors and storytellers, and to disregard the logic of Science'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'religions that limit themselves to metaphysical claims cannot be disproven or falsified'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Emm'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'again wtf is the logic of science'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'logic is logic, science is science they have very little to do with each other'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Zade does metaphysical analysis'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although approaching science in a logical manner is probably the best way to go about it'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"scientific" is a pejorative term that transmits the idea of fact and methodicalness to the subject, as though whatever it's being compared to is less than the subject being compared.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you can definitively answer metaphysical questions?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if so please tell me what preceded the big bang'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'of course, I am God, after all.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'please tell me the proximate cause of the values of the universal constants (like planks)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not teaching you, Emm.  from past conversations, the conclusion is that you seem to be missing decent ethics'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the big bang.  Whatever caused it, it generated a flux in temperature that's gradually leeched away as inflation continues.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'congratulations hanslanda you just failed entirely'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and without decent ethics, metaphysical analysis is "different"  (and or depraved)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ethics is about 10 levels of abstraction below metaphysics'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but some of the things you said are perhaps another subtopic to be analysed further'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'why is there a universe?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you can answer that question definitively i will join your church and do anything you tell me to do.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'so you think theres only one?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I didn't say or imply that'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I in fact believe that there isn't only one answer to the question so it cannot be answered definitively'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'why isnt there a universe then?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'rhetorical (not analysed here): "Are the concepts of 'good' able to be similar from the perspective of a (decent) god and decent humans, and if they are different, how different and where."'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that one is easy to answer, since the answer is that question relies on a false premise'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and therefor has no answer'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in other words you have committed a category error'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'when did you stop beating your wife?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'why arent you God of your own universe, i guess i mean?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who says I am not?'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"good" is not an absolute.  A thing is only good if it presents the least amount of stress on you.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'metaphysical analysis prefers to defer the analysis of the obviously ludicrous until the ludicrous is no longer ludicrous'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'if you are, i'd like to see it, teach me how to make one'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so ludicrous conjectures: "what came before the big bang"  partial answer: "that conjecture is without relevance" (there are more important conjectures to analyse)  '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"the world is heading to Armegeddon, and you are blathering about the what came before a likely fictitious event (the big bang)" - (you may've failed triage)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the world isn't heading to armegeddon, Zade.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'although there is evidence that the Christian religion is a somewhat false religion, the armegeddon conjectures in the book of Revelation are revealing to the discerning'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'of course they are.  Armageddon has already happened, and will happen again.  This alone clearly shows it's not going to be the end of the world as is popularly claimed.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are likely a lot of concerned humans seeking to avoid and or defer Armegeddon  '
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong ther,e Hanslanda'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Armageddon as described in the NT did not happen yet'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's the whole beauty of the bible.  It applies equally well to any time you wish, including ones long before and long after it was written.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'belief in it is strong enough to make history repeat itself.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "foolish" christians "want" Armageddon to happen'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, may as well get the foolishness out of the way early so we can claw our way back to the golden age all the sooner.'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'post WWIII is no fun'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'life is fairly decent these days (if no poor)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'life is fairly decent these days (if not poor)'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ten levels of abstraction between ethics and metaphysics -- Zade suspects Emm is confabulating:  state the names of those alleged ten levels'
T3/r7/2014-03-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'george, martha, frederico, sebastian, eric, shauna,...'
T3/r7/2014-03-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'anyone else love cpac'
T3/r7/2014-03-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'its like buy a bottle of rum, take a half shot everytime you hear jesus,god,gun,constituion'
T3/r7/2014-03-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'so much fun'
T3/r7/2014-03-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers around himself intently.
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Anthine: 'so which is better PS4 or XBox 1'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'ps4'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the one that has the games that you like to play'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anthine is supposedly seeking to ascertain: (1) if the same game were on both PS4 and XBox1, which is the more enjoyable reliable etcetera hardware, (2) which of the two PS4 XBox1 is more likely to provide more enjoyable games, from the various perspectives of knowledgeable (or at least opinionated) peanut-gallery'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sickerone: 'Sony'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, in North Korea elections, Kim Jong Un wins the vote in his region with 100% of the votes. Other than turnout, sounds suspiciously like the vote here in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, at work I am trying to convince my boss to help me 'confiscate' the Porsche belonging to our pensions adviser owing to some pension theft going on'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(unknown to Tigernuts, the boss may be an .......... or even an .....)'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Blackwater troops have been spotted on the ground in Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dear Mr Putin, Please tear John Kerry a new arse, he's having to use his mouth right now. Yours sincerely...'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Doctors in Britain are being forced to become state snitches and spot 'radical' patients under an NHS initiative that threatens to cut funding if a GP practice fails to take part in the program." .... nice'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's already coming to the USA'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and at universities'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Amorok: 'snitch?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'snitch. Spy'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone who rats out people and reports to the government, often giving incomplete or inaccurate information'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wonder if anyone thinking of standing for election as US president in 2016 understands that pardoning Chelsea Manning and Edward Snowden would be a vote winner with the youth and libertarian/liberal minded electorate (both groups that often fail to vote at all)'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: ''often giving incomplete or inaccurate information' is an opinion'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, no, it's not'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'err, yes, it is'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look to any authoritarian regime where the use of snitches was popular, such as East Germany, USSR'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '...and then look everywhere else'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'North Korea, even here in the UK during the early days'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'informants are notoriously unreliable'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not disagreeing'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then it's not opinion :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's the 'often' that's the problem imo....it's stereotyping snitches...whether we like snitches or not'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's nothing wrong with stereotyping'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'too much stereotyping today'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bollocks'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there's plenty wrong with it'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is nothing wrong with stereotyping provided you understand what it is'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '...and therein lies the problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't legislate stupid'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'amen'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'we do elect it though'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that doesn't change the fact though that some could use it'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, either way, mandating that doctors snitch on patients to the government is bad'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'depends...didn't read the article'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they shouldn't even be telling government -anything- about their patients at an individual level'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there are some circumstances....such as harm to self or others'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a bit of a difference between someone making an overt and specific threat (extremely unlikely) and just generally reporting on possible behaviour'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'agreed....just pointing out some exceptions exist'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those exceptions already existed and didn't need mandating'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'again...not sure what exactly they're reporting'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'er, starting to report'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'so....what are they suppose to be snitching about?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the case of this new problem, me complaining to my doctor that his treatment suggestions are informed more by money that effectiveness would be labelled as extremist behaviour and have me reported'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I'd not have a problem with that'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'radicalisation, anti-government stuff'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's basically the same kind of thing that they've been teaching the police in the US that anyone who is a libertarian and/or supports the constitution, gun rights, states rights are terrorists'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or who is a christian, supports smaller government etc'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I'd have no problems explaining complaining about fee/services if someone wants to come follow up..i'd imagine if he'll do it once, he'll do it again....the record will speak for itself'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too late at that point'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'think they'll have locked me up?...please don't say yes'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because at that point you're already on a no-fly list, having your communications monitored, your house raided'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already happens'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'paranoia and fear mongering....guess it's everywhere today'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's neither'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's taking a principle'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about we put a camera in your bathroom to take video of you every time you go in there and upload it to the government'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'why would you want to put a camera in my bathroom?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'do you have cameras in your bathroom?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course i don't'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'cool...didn't think so'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about we raise your insurance based upon your political beliefs, or your taste in music'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'see....talking about putting a camera in my bathroom sounds like fear mongering or paranoia to me'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an example of unwanted interference. it's the go-to method to explain people who seem like you unable to comprehend what invasion of privacy is'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'don't ever recall checking any of those boxes on my insurance application'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'we can 'what if' all day'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about we increase your car insurance based on the style of your driving?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'they alreay do that'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'just get a few tickets and see'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or increase your health insurance based on what you buy at the supermarkets?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tickets are not driving-style dependant'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nor are they exclusive'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correlation is not causation'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'but otherwise they don't know your style'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'no ticket, no style'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'at least at the insurance company end'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure they do, they're going to mandate black box recorders fitted to all cars'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, most cars already have had them since 2005, they're just not recording long term'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'you think they've set up transmittion to your insurance agency?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there's that paranoia/fear mongering'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they haven't for me, but that's the way the market is moving'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'would you rather have cars with potential problems that could have been fixed by analyzing the computer blowing up on teh roads?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'you're talking about the car computers'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'black boxes'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'data recorders'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'car computers are a bad idea generally, but no, i won't have a car with such a thing in it'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'until they all do...lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then i'll buy a classic without'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there ya go'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more than half my car failures are caused by excess technology'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'double-edged sword'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's a different issue (and has to do with inbuilt redundancy and regulations)'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I think the OBD2 systems log the last few seconds of data anyhow.'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'car?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, ontuct, in the event of an accident'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'yes car'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'anything built in the last 20 or so years'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods....don't know the techincal terms'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not much of a car person period'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'gas, oil, air, water'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some supermarkets already pass across your purchasing habits to insurers'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: ''to insurers' ...not YOUR insurer'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'data'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, not necesarrily'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'pay cash'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods...i know some may actually be connected via there actual company'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do, ontuct'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'but it's not engineered to take advantages of people's purchases in relation to changing their premiums'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what isn't engineered?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'probably not even same company ....prob third party data collectors'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the sharing of the data isn't engineered'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, loyalty cards were not designed for the purpose of selling the data to insurers, but it's a side effect'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'names are money in today's world'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like car black boxes were designed to provide information in the event of a crash, not to allow governments to spy on you the whole time'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, to walk through life believing that things do not have unintended consequences is... naive'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'of course'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there you go, you call me paranoid, i call you naive :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'be cognizent of the world isn't the same as being paranoid'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'er 'being''
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and staunchly defending privacy and wanting government and "the rest of the parasitic world" to leave you alone isn't paranoia or fearmongering'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'not the notion'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the examples become the problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which examples?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and it doesn't matter what it is....someone always twists something into paranoia....what if, what if, what if....we can what if all day'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well in this case, that person is you'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was merely pointing out the unintended consequences, both real and existing, and possible/inevitble'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'sure...I'm the one with the camera in my bathroom, I'm the one paying higher premiums because of what I bought at the grocery store or how I voted last election'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the higher premiums is a very real thing'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's like slippery slopers.....'oh god...it's a slippery slope'...what if, what if, what if....fact is we live on a slippery slope'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'persecution based on political opinion is also very real'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and they always pick out the least imaginable extreme to make their arguements'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and as it goes, some US schools have been caught fitting cameras to bathrooms/showers'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'only if you have baaad opinions'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"not democrat", Tinada?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, "not establishment"'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I don't doubt that tiger....idiots exist in every group'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and many of them end up in government'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'stereotyping'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'mutter'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'democrats should be safe, I reckon, they are reasonably well aligned with the religion'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'believe that your national politicians are anything other than creatures of the establishment/their party is naive'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'thinking they're all the type of person who wld put cameras in bathrooms/showers is paranoia'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's just you conflating two very different things'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'sorry...stepped away'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'misread'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, being establishment/party creatures means they won't dilligently uphold the 4th ammendment, which leads you further down that slippery slope to bathroom cameras'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'For a reasonable definition of 'the establishment', I think >95% of US national politicians might qualify as creatures'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there's those ridiculous slippery slope extremes...bathroom cameras'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'there are some people who somehow slip through, though'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a real example, stux'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for a real example, see NSA mass surveillance'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I don't have a problem with it'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be actively campaigning against my local MP next election because he supports the snoopers charter'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I can't believe people were actually surprised'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Tigernuts!!!  Tinada cheers him on.
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surprised? no, but people 'such as you' kept saying it wasn't happening and the people 'like me' who said it was were paranoid and fearmongers'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'I never said it wasn't happening'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'since the day you started talking on the phone you should have been aware that the line was never 'private''
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'long before the internet and cell phones I was aware of this'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, it was an offence to wiretap at that point'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because something was possible, does not make it legal, or ethical'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'depends....wiretapping cld be authorized....same way nsa was authorized'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is plenty wrong with that sentence, but the crux is that wiretapping used to be authorised only in specific cases, and come on folks, get your 4th ammendment out and recite what those cases are:'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'the same people complaining about the monitoring would be the first ones complaining should another plane strike a building'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'come on...no one cares that you called your sister today to tell her what you had for dinner last night'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'your mom might'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who said anything about my sister?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'or that you have to work tomorrow...or whatever....it's not like there's a warehouse full of people picking up the line when you do'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what business is it of theirs who i call or what it's about?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's not...that's why they didn't listen to your call'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'start talking about bombs and they might though'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''they' didn't listen to calls, they record/mine from them'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, you're back to the camera in your bathroom again'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't i watch your wife or your daughter undressing?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'fact vs fiction'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who cares/'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'there's no cam in my bathroom'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a cam on your laptop though, and they happily record that'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'and my cams have a piece of paper over them'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you like your identity being stolen by criminals?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'couldn't say'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '..what if'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you like having money stolen from your bank account? your credit cards being used by a criminal?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'of course not...point?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why would you support your government deliberately putting in backdoors into technology to allow them to "spy" on people which then makes that technology less secure and allows hackers to access them?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'phone'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'doh...hangup'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'was just nsa checking if their latest hack is working'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'so your counter is that the government is allowing hackers better access to my information?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unintended consequences'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'that's life'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something they had no right doing in the first place leads to unintended consequences'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'who said they had no right?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, the old "not my problem, shit happens" argument'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the case of the USA, the have no right'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you either believe in the rule of law, or you don't :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'relative to overseas individuals?....no right '
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'as far as citizens inside....right'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well the citizens inside is what the whole snowden thing was about, or are you in denial about that?'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'now...that said...'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, dinnertime!'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'other countries of the world do not abide by the rights of the USA'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'if the other countries of the world are going to do it for insight, then so will the USA so as not to be disadvantaged'
T3/r7/2014-03-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'who and where is targeted is up for debate'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'is liam neeson the new steven seagal?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably not.  I think Gerard Butler edges him out.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'checking..'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or perhaps that one guy in Bourne Legacy.  The one that kicked ass way more effectively than Jason Bourne.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oh, that guy. butler. he is not the right type.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what's your type?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'redheads'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was easy. next question'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'll put in a word with Shaemus, aka the Human Jar of Mayonnaise.  He seems to have a sense of humor, but if you don't want to eat boot I suggest not bringing up anything political.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no. i meant - neeson is very much like seagal. he also gets beaten up ONLY when it really means something.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I figured you were, otherwise I would've suggested Kristi Hemmi.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'this channel is full of trolls'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'confirmed'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are they gay trolls?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's an Aard thing.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'are you a gay fish?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i'm a disabled fish'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'game's way too easy, so they get bored and revert to their natural order.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, a disabled feminist muslim fish who votes democrat'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now stop being racist and go troll elsewhere'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'disabled troll'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'on the internet you can be anything you choose to be, it is unfortunate that so many people choose to be assholes.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'haven't you ever been to New York, Emm?  I don't think anyone's being any different on the internet.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i've been to new york many times and for the most part I have found the people there to be exceptionally nice'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't miss new york if it were to be nuked'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if it gets nuked, its an inside job'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's a reason they call it the armpit of America, you know.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: ''ll be'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be more of a service to humanity if they nuked London though'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im pretty sure youngstown ohio is the armpit of america'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not like they'd be killing any brits there'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'this convesation just lit up 300 alarm lights somewhere'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was the plan, hwuaj, along with filing the patents on the new NSA code blocking software and that chinese satellite mounted rail gun'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, who's the dummy who decided to retweet it?!'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody, only trolls use twatter'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'let's refer to them as Internet-Savvy Porkjockeys.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Chinese components found in B-1 bombers and F-16 fighters. Someone needs the sack for that'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime Diane Feinstein wins hypocratic old crone of the year award for her complaints about CIA having snooped at the intelligence committee's computer network without a warrant'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I thought the CIA wasn't allowed to operate on US soil?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/qx9m5ux'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dude, we've got North Korean electronics in those things.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it definitely isn't allowed to spy on congress'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'if you didnt notice, america does what it wants'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'CIA generally doesn't care about rules it doesn't get caught breaking.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CIA needs disbanding'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone in the US needs to get a fucking grip already'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'euro votes we disband it, do we have a second?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, keep CIA exactly where it's at.  We don't need their stupid infecting the legitimate spy agencies.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditch it, move foreign spying into the military where it belongs'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's already there, DIA.  I'm sure there's an alpabet group for offense, too.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'then be nice so any snooping would make you look awesome to the cia. or nsa. or usa in general. then they feel bad about themselves and cant get their "jobs" done at home'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'if we can ever get our drug policy in check, we will have thousands of unemployed DEA agents'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'hah just kidding, our prison guard unions won't let that happen'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i doubt its the prison guard unions that are the problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you have a coupe in either of your political parties, no, you won't get your drug policy in check, neither will you get the CIA to heel'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'k'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'go on emm, what is the problem if its not private prisons'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government policy is the problem, not private prisons'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'well ur a scary guy beleier, the goverment is always the problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it might be the private prisons that are lobbying for it, but that doesn't remove the blame from congress and the state governments for passing such idiotic laws'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'true'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Hey Tigernuts will you thank British intellegence for me for making the CIA look good, send them an e-mail or hold a sign up in front of your webcam for five minutes :)'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have a webcam'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'sch1 substance, yet we have medical products out there gentically altered for specific healing purposes..seems legit'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not interested, they're too busy looking at child pornb'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my webcam has foil taped over it'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the new ios is able to suck secret info directly from your brain. even underwater'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they don't need your webcam eyeball, they can already watch what you're doing on-screen and if they need audio there's probably one builtin to the webcam (or you have a separate one plugged in.)'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best they can manage here is keylog'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hell, NSA has secret spytech that can hack into a computer that's not even turned on.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or just capture data stream'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'generally that has to be deployed, hans'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's Intel Core processors and newer'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's rather limited what they can do with desktops, what's easier to steal is anything on a smartphone'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bob cvrow died aged 52'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'cliff notes?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one less communist scumbag in the world, i guess'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'tigernuts thinks everyone is a communist'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thanks obama!'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bob crow -was- a communist, he said so'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26527325'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'be that as it may, my statement stands on its own merit'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'got an american link? not clicking that uk shit'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well given he's a brit, then 'no;, gruagach'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is he related to Jim?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'pass.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sigh'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there you go, gruagach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Crow'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'wikipedia..pass'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'now you are just being obstenate'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'll do this myself, thanks'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'anyone can write on wikipedia, how is that fact'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has references, anyone can check references'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't rely on msnbc for facts if i were yo'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is there anyone else left other than Gruagach who hasn't twigged that all news media is biased, and that it's actually worse to avoid sites because of perceived bias than it is to include many sites but understand the nature of the bias and make the necessary corrections'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'u wot m8'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'I feel like you just asked the most futile question ever, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'is there anyone else besides tigernuts who thinks they can comprehend the true nature of the bias in the media?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: '"mirite or am i right guys"'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'I dunno, I think he can comprehend Deal or No Deal just fine'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't comprehend Noel Edmond's taste in shirts'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be a paedophile thing'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-wont-intervene-crimea-president-224530588.html;_ylt=AwrBJR7lkh9T9yEAWO_QtDMD'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that Ukraine basically surrendering?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bad economic figures coming out of china, should mean stocks down tomorrow'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'about a third of all Medicaid eligibles under Obamacare rules are convicted criminals.  We're paying to keep crooks healthy. :P'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are they convicted of?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'anything, violent crimes, possession, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so not evitable criminals'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so much as 'people in prison''
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the implied suggestion was that without Obamacare these people would've been denied coverage, thereby leading them to return to crime.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't you just say they were on medicaid?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, I said eligible (ie, they can now go on medicaid)'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they couldn't before?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'apparently not.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what makes them think insurance coverage will stop them reoffending?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I wonder what percentage of the population has been convicted of a crime.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'better/more access to medication.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's illogical, Hans, what's the link?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/03/11/justice-dept-at-least-35-of-people-eligible-for-obamacares-medicaid-expansion-are-ex-convicts/?partner=yahootix'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'criminals commit crime because they don't have affordable healthcare? It's a nonsense, otherwise the UK would have much lwoer crime'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you think criminals shouldn't get healthcare?'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think I shouldn't have to help pay for it.  If they want it, they should work hard and spend their own money.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're just against ACA altogether'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'very much so.'
T3/r7/2014-03-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally think you'd have been better off with a government-provided health insurance product as a competitor, with subsidies on it for the less well off, paid for by a tax on health insurance'
T3/r7/2014-03-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weird news: "Parent Appalled Over Essay Asking 8th Graders If Theyd Rather Be Slaves Or Factory Workers"'
T3/r7/2014-03-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest NSA mass spying plans: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/article/2014/03/12/nsa-plans-infect-millions-computers-malware/'
T3/r7/2014-03-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not news to anyone who watched chaos conference this year'
T3/r7/2014-03-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'good vids'
T3/r7/2014-03-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were indeed'
T3/r7/2014-03-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'heh. a crimean local said that the police is checking peoples passports and rips couple of pages off from the wrong ones'
T3/r7/2014-03-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'from whom are those criminal police taking orders'
T3/r7/2014-03-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'criminal police take orders from criminal governments'
T3/r7/2014-03-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'abby hoffman or bobby seal? and is that spelling rivht?'
T3/r7/2014-03-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lol, there's a church in South Florida that's putting in a drive-thru for prayer services.'
T3/r7/2014-03-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wow, that is so 1960s'
T3/r7/2014-03-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'good thing we don't tax churches'
T3/r7/2014-03-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Thirty Years' War: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvdbDw5bXnQ'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'MH370 will probably go down in the books as an example of ignorance and stupidity.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what the hell were the military thinking?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nah, Malayasions are mostly irrelevant, not likely to be in an important history book'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Perhaps it's of the nations interest not to reveal exactly how good, or perhaps in this case, how poor their radar surveillance is or their air space.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(malasians)'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'of*'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'their not doing too good a job.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm laughing just listening to the statements made by our politicians and military.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe the flight mh370 was boarded by those the malasians wanted euthanised  '
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'malaysians* zade.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it has been theorised.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Zade is trolling, Jopari.  He dropped the y to twist the moniker into a pejorative.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ie, defective/bad asians'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hanslanda is insulting the Malayans by saying that mispellings are perjoratives'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i might've taken offense, but we don't exactly have great representation.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(misspellings)'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though honestly we must be quite a marvel, highest car pricing, highest corruption rate, smuggling, education screw-ups...etc...'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari sighs.
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so what's up in Crimea exactly? what's with NATO getting dos-ed?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Russia wants to take over.  What more do you need to know?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but lowest land! Almost..'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Smart move! ElFeneri tries to start some discussion about the weather, hoping no one noticed his last mischan.
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Nato is getting DOS (Disk Operating System) ?!? - that is somewhat last century'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'denial of service attacks.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'hello?  I'd like to buy the internet, please'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those soviet hackers are acting like terrorists'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's your take on it?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Russia isn't doing anything more than the US would have done.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'jumping in w/ military force? then holding it despite protests from others?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yep.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'maybe, how do you think NATO, britain, etc,etc will react?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i see we have returned to normal.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'britain will do almost nothing, btw, some minor bitchy visa suspensions that mean nothing'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'given the discovery of this piece of ringwoodite from the mantle transition layer, do you think there's oceans of water trapped 300 miles belowground?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the latest hypothesis says there's potentially as much water trapped there as is in all the oceans of the world.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hypothetical oceans, 300 miles below, where the magma is - (plays laughtrack)'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is a remote possibility that the ocean waters cooled the magma there - nah -- likely be steaming hot though, and under a lot of pressure, just waiting for a "what ne worry" human to drill down there'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'so far we haven't been able to drill below 7 miles'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the repuvlican christains: "so that is where all the Noah water went, 300 miles underground!"  (snickering laughtrack of atheists)'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republican christians speaking seriously: "So that is where all the Noah water went, 300 miles underground!"  (added laughtrack provided by snickering atheists)'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade, you're confusing 'republic christians' with inbred american fuckwits'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wonder what the recommended daily intake of pot is?'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'recommended none.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but pot is less dangerous than sugar, and that poison has one.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's almost criminal that we let our kids have so much access to it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you can kill yourself by drinking too much water, but I wouldn't recommend going without it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'marijuana is far more dangerous than sugar'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'especially for children'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, it is?  Guess it was just the 25%ers making the claim.  They still think the sun revolves around the Earth.'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an interview with a seal team member suggested that the reason why no pictures of Bin Laden's assasination were posted was because they "riddled" him with bullets post-mortem'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it's more likely thy didn't want people to realise it wasn't actually him'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tsk, indecency by USA seal to a dead arabian human body - yeah that be "popular news" in the Arab middle east ( not! )'
T3/r7/2014-03-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they may even demand that Obama return the Peace prize'
T3/r7/2014-03-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'if a cop has been arrested several times including dui (2x the limit) assault and battery (on another officer) should they continue to be alowed to be a cop?'
T3/r7/2014-03-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'no brainer right?'
T3/r7/2014-03-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooh, Vallejo California is about to go bankrupt'
T3/r7/2014-03-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'statistically speaking, it is about 9000 times more dangerous to see a doctor in the US than it is to hang out with gun owners.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should catalonia, crimea, texas, and ingushetia be allowed to secede ?'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, western media still peddling the myth that Crimean is Ukrainian and that the Crimean referendum was somehow invalid'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'there were 120% more voters than people in crimea.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'All of the reports I have heard from Crimea indicated that the reports question started Pro-Russian versus Pro-Ukranian arguments, and then the result is 97%-3% seems unlikely.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'military occupation, voter intimidation, and no free press = no free election'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the referendum was watched by Austrian poll observers who said it was fine'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'military occupation arguable, no voter intimidation was reported, and no free press is normal'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'lets see a free election in Chechnia and lets see the Russians agree to abide by the results.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tartars didn't vote, there was 83% voter turnout at a 97-3 vote, even if the 17% voted against, it would have still been a landslide'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let's see a free vote in the EU'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if nothing else it proves it has nothing to do with perceived legality and everything to do with superpower agenda'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't think the level of press freedom in Crimea was normal for the Ukraine.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ukraine has been in failed-former-soviet mafia state since it's independance'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'thats true'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Election was also after military intervention, not before.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which makes it 1 election better than in mainland Ukraine who had a regime change at gunpoint'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's nato playing tug of war with russia over ukraine resources and tactical position. -ALL- other issues are secondary or irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the nearest equivalent would be Russia funding dissident political groups in Puerto Rico to a point that an armed uprising ousts the democratically elected government'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yes, NATO wants democracy and freedom for people, it seems be their main goal and causes conflict with Russia'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NATO couldn't give a flying fuck about democracy and freedom for people'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it cares about maintaining control of it's territory and defending it from outsiders'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'nearest equivalent would be for the US to sieze checnia and pass out ballots.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already did that in Ukraine, just without the ballots'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best thing we could have done is not gotten involved'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Puerto Rico has had ballots about its future.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'The Ukranian people should have been allowed to protest.  It was a peaceful protest until the government attacked.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's different to any western country how?'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the US had the Occupy movement and in order to get arrested they had to block the Brooklyn Bridge.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'People have died in G8 protests in the UK, many people have been arrested and/or wounded in protests in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the snipers in Ukraine are of questionable provinence'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Anarchists don't have the right to stop the G8 which is usually what has been attempted.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh right, so those are anarchists, but ukrainians were 'peaceful protestors''
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Right they didn't try to stop the government from meeting.'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like the nato promotes freedom and democracy, provided it's THEIR democracy voting in THEIR candidates, and provided the freedom doesn't threaten their dominance'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't recall any g8 protest stopping the government meeting'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only reason ukrainian protest didn't stop the parliament meeting was because of the ring of armed forced protecting it'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after the agreement was breached by the protestors and the president fled, the defenders stood down'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'they have tried to stop the meetings, they haven't succeded because of the military presence protecting 8 world leaders (and whoever they bring with them.)'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hope very much it comes to blows'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mainly because everyone involved can go fuck themselves'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'somebody with an agenda is (usually) funding (and organising) the protesters'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, zade, and thankfully we know exactly who in this case'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, here in the UK tomorrow the chancellor reveals the budget for 2015, so i'll be needing to lube up my arsehole and bend over and prepare to be financially raped'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't be long before our basic income tax rate is 40%'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what is it now?'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20, though the mean tax burden is 39.7%'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for me it's closer to 60%'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people with kids tend to have a much lower tax burden, because being an overcrowded island with the highest population density of any non-city-state country in europe, our government readily encourages childbirth and immigration'
T3/r7/2014-03-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would say the UK government is dumb as a box of rocks, but I fear nearly all governments are'
T3/r7/2014-03-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'result of UK's budget speech today: UK continues to go down the toilet. Yay!'
T3/r7/2014-03-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'allegedly a school principle in the USA had her contract not renewed because she'd asked her students to speak English at school'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should i do more for spring break.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'funynus are the best stoner food, debate me'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'funyuns although good do not beat out cheetos'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'while close, funyuns provide a unique flavor without all the mess'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'as well as you can put them on your fingers, on your tounge'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'Thats true there are more ways you can play with funyuns'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'they do make your breath smell like ass, and makes gum taste funny..'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'hmmm new product. Funyungum'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dude'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'million dollar idea'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i like those stoner mix bags, like chex and cheetos and funyons..you ever see those bags, and pretizles'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'I love the cheatos ones with all the wierd shapes. and munchies are good too doritos pretzles cheetos and cheese nips all in the same bag'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a food or gum that gives users bad breath -- not cool'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a food that results in ass-breath is only likely to be popular anong the gays'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no nuclear war yet. so disappointing'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'm an economic hit man'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well done, best get on twitter'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'british news is obsessed with that dumbarse missing aircraft'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'everyone is'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'they have licence to make up the whole thing..any senario is likely duurr'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'verge of war on multiple fronts, US congress is in open revolt against the US intelligence services, but as long as there's an aircraft missing that isn't even ours'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'alex jones?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i'm not Gruagach'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'ON RECORD!'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'conjecture: either the Malaysians or the Vietnamese shot that plane down  [unless the British or the USA want to take credit]'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i did see a report out of russia suggesting that it had been diverted via fly-by-wire to Diego Garcia because of 'cargo of concern''
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but quite frankly,i wish it'd turn up crashed so that they can fuck off and stop infecting the news with pointless bollocks'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'maybe it was a blackhole!!'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like an msnbc-level explanation'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'maybe jesus took it'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'he took the wheel'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds like a Foxlevel explanation'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'another conjecture: the US intelligence services are responsible for "disappearing" that plane, so as to distract Congress'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way, they're dead, move on'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Or living on Mars.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'One or the other'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Well, the moon.  They probably wouldn't have had time to make it to Mars yet.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a stephen hawkins answer'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'how did they get to the moon tho?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there wasn't really an MH370 flight.  Hollywood created it as a hot teaser for their next big movie.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'maybe they stole the moon, i seen it in a movie once'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russians stole it, gruagach'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I would imagine jets have enough thrust to break gravity'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russians also killed jesus'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'imo aliens took em to mars'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'but jesus can rez..so like did he really die for your sins man'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'russians didn't kill Jesus.  He's currently working as a barista for Starbucks.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Stephen King "tvmovie" was a few episodes - ludicrous story - "The Langoliers" (sic) - aired last century - featured a white cast -- unlikely the Malaysians did a recast'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck starbucks, tax dodging arseholes'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yah, only starbucks and walmart avoid taxes'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and google, apple'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'exxon, chevron,shell.bp, target,'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you know, anyone who does business..'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any company that has global coverage and multiple offices'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were up to me i'd set a corporate tax rate of 20% of profits or 1% of revenue'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whichever is higher'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'tax churchs pls'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, tax free churches is a stupid idea both ways, if you take tax free status as a church you are selling your free speech rights'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'the problem comes when they hold and sell proprtery and never pay taxes on it'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the church "tithes" are already a taxation - no double taxation'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd charge sales tax (20% here) on all property unless it's a residential property and you'r eliving in it'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'tax the rich to help the poor and cure poverty disease'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'how is tithes a tax?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax the globalists that are screwing us'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i dont know how it all works, but the only tax should be when you buy stuff'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'tithes are voluntary'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'there should be no random income tax'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'but no one will pay for crack babies milk, so we gotta tax errabody'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'taxes are also voluntary - pay them or else'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'income tax is a necessary evil, just needs to be low and a flat rate'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'taxes.. time to turn off debate'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'tax all income equally..'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was that or that fucking aircraft, hwua'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i.e stock dividends'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'tax the rich fuckers who cheated and stole their way to the top on the backs of the ninety nine'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'hah 99 what?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you mean the corporatists again, Juictice'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'ows was propted up by unions..you know that right?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'OWS was a waste of time'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'banks got bailed out, we went derp derp'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'im still occupyin'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ows?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'occupy wank street'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err wall street'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you know that unions don't use union labor to man their protests, and that they consider it too expensive to pay such people at union scale?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I so wanted the occupy movement to come up with something useful.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'nothing funded by the koch brothers has ever been useful'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would have needed them to have a purpose, an agenda, and demands, Malkar'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it happens it was mostly a bunch of drunk hipsters without a fucking clue'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you are probably right Gruagach'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the OWS chant: What do we want? We don't know but we're generally unhappy about this sort of thing! When do we want it? At some unspecified time in the future!'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'hahaha tiger made me laugh'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'do i need to kill myself now?'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'please do'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'We will get back to you with our demands after the several thousand of us come to complete agreement.'
T3/r7/2014-03-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't be hard, rip control of your government back out of corporate hands and give it back to the people'
T3/r7/2014-03-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with schools like this, no wonder homeschooling is popular: http://tinyurl.com/q8vhhts'
T3/r7/2014-03-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'imagine the fuss if these playgrounds were in the US http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/the-strangest-playground-on-earth-214600165.html'
T3/r7/2014-03-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'umm, do they not let next-of-kin identify dead bodies in RL in the morgue like they do on TV?  Some lady spent two days coming to grips that her daughter was dead, only to find out the morgue made a mistake.  Said lady was told she couldn't come in to identify because the body was a biohazard.'
T3/r7/2014-03-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'naughty biohazard'
T3/r7/2014-03-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if the IRS counts forgiven debt as income and you already owe (and logically if you had that much in backtaxes I suppose you already didn't have enough money to meet all your obligations), wouldn't it be less than a good idea to take advantage of such programs?'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'does my phone's network signal bars droppinv from 4 bars to zero after every time the word cocaine appears in a text about police efforts in a nearby city cause for alarm? '
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lemagicien: 'wassup?'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lemagicien: 'this for discussin real life politics or what?'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'I dispute that sir, where is your evidencxe?'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lemagicien: 'i dont think i made a statement...'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'I have extensive logs to prove this channel is for the discussion of baloney. Please provide your contrary citations.'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lemagicien: 'show me those logs pls, what is baloney?'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'For discovery, you may google Abelinc's logs and search for the term 'debate', as for Baloney, it is a familair term for bologna'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'baloney and logs at http://mikeride.chaosnet.org/abelinc/'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, no reason to google my logs, and no need to search for the term debate, simply look at the debate files...it's all organized :P'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Arnica goes ooOOooOOoo.
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Lemagicien (with the french name from (say) Louisiana) is "talkin'" as though an (illiterate) USamerican politician or a reminiscent imitation of Foghorn Leghorn'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'So not surprised to find this in the debate logs :) 'Thanks, Obama''
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but did they say "thanks bush"'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'why is Obama to get the "credit"'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lemagicien: 'u are taking to much for granted from my name'
T3/r7/2014-03-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lemagicien: 'i have to say im not from the us'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'did anyone in australia listen to question time today?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'are you going to make me talk to myself about politics? :\'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aureolus: 'anyone thing that S&D is taking the fun out of this game?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aureolus: 'think*'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'you can choose not to use it if you think it's not challenging enough'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'gquests are... another matter though'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aureolus: 'that's the problem. also qp earning speed would differ'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'although another problem would be how would you rewrite the rules and enforce it if you don't want S&D style pulgins?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'viva los bots'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aureolus: 'but do you agree with me though? S&D taking out the fun'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'fun depends on the person. many people would/could say that a text-based game is no fun'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'is the debate channel still x-rated?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aureolus: 'dick'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aureolus: 'yeap'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'i thought x-rated would mean we can say penis'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'probably the only reason it's x-rated'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'so that we can discuss reproductive parts without having to say 'man part' or 'lady part''
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Don't Bore Xyndor: 'So they declared the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean with no proof of such an event?  *shrugs*'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, woman with autistic son often has to be called into his school to deal with him. This time they called her in, she was buzzed in, goes to the classroom sorts out the child - administrator turns up informs her the school has been locked down because she didn't sign the visitor book, cops turn up arrest her take her away'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts claps half-heartedly, clearly unimpressed.
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '+1 for homeschooling'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which country'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which state'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no issues with autistic kids in the UK, they're all so braindamaged that they get along here'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a moment, i'll look it up for you'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps sue the school, win enough money to homeschool the child'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cannot believe the news from "The Onion"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better than the onion, it was the mail'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was Missouri'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'originally from local tv station news, KMBV'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'her name is niakea williams and it seems to be legit'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a grotesque overreaction and jobsworthness'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Niakea" sounds ethnic -- likely racism involved'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still not as worrying as the camper shot dead by cops'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'quite possibly racism involved as well'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'pretty common for a black woman to be seen as a mouthy black bitch whereas a white/asian woman is seen as a concerned mother, unfortunately'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'regardless of the root cause, however, it also displays an outstanding amount of stupidity on part of the school officials, for butt-covering if nothing else'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I like the one with the guy who tried to pick up his kids after school, and is told that you can't walk to get them, you must drive up...after the school change the traffic pattern for drive-up pickups to where the line is 2 hours long'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was great, abe'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and he gets arrested for not leaving his kids'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and for a bit of fun for you: http://www.scribd.com/doc/214240146/DHS-FEMA-National-Exercise-Program-Capstone-Exercise-2014-Scenario-Ground-Truth'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'although that one was more of a protesty thing, he's had dealings with the school in the past and videotaped some of them for youtube posting'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well we have no choice, we must destroy the planet because humanity is too stupid'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "requirement" to drive up to the school indicates the requirement of a vehicle -- perhaps "(class action) suit" against that school'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how does that help when any payout you get comes out of your taxes?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is in Canada, not the USA
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's like all the lawsuits being won against the police for brutality and false imprisonment over fake gun offences, the money comes out of taxes, so how does it help?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pass heavier laws against bad police -- long prison sentences'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'probably they want to stop people from walking in between cars to get children, although the way to deal with that is to have walk-ups in a place further away from drive-ups and/or a crossing guard for the walk-ups to get to the parking lots, instead of making ridiculous rules'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I can get children from walking between cars?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada jumps up onto a table and shrieks 'EEEEEEEK!'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sure tinada, if you have enough candy'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'yuck..'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that in the USA, some in "authority" believe thay may act as abominations with impunity'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'at any rate, the stupidity of people with children around cars cannot be underestimated, there may be a decent reason for that rule being made'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the nature of authoritarian regimes, zade, and most western countries are going that direction'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'too bad we can't build a device to get energy from stupidity, that would solve a lot of problems'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'about time some citizens volunteered to make an "example" of those abominations'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I've seen people, for example, trying to push a stroller between a large van and the trailer it was towing at the state fair, and others climbing over the hitch while holding children in their arms, meanwhile, the van was waiting for a chance to move and could easily have hurt children'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those seemingly "careless" adults were likely looking to win a lawsuit (at the expense of the children or even themselves)'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'unlikely, more likely they were just too fucking stupid to think about the trailer moving and with a 'ME FIRST' attitude'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely the trailer owner will be prosecuted'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USa is seemingly "populated" with human animals'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Tigernuts, the parents also may be prosecuted'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'far more likely that the parents would sue the fairgrounds/state, who have more money to pay them'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if i were on the jury, i'd deny the claim by those plaintive careless parents'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as a DA, perhaps charge those careless parents with criminal negligence (unless there were extenuating circumstances)'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as a "Law & Order" DA, perhaps charge those careless parents with intent to commit criminal fraud through misuse of the legal system'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'good luck with that, I'm just stating that there may be good reasons why the school would make such a rule -- perhaps they had multiple parents walking in between moving cars with their children in tow and were genuinely concerned about an incident'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bumbleton: '-i 10'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there "must" be some criminal charges that may be directed against the administrators of that bad school -- perhaps consult the "Law & Order" scriptwriters for "inspiration"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"While some Free Americans against Socialist Tyranny members are capable of conducting adverse cyber operations, the greatest threat is current government employees sympathetic to their cause," the document adds. "It is believed that there are employees within US Northern Command, U.S. Air Force, U.S. Army, National Guard, and Defense Information Systems Agency that may support Free Americans against Socialist Tyranny doctrine based on individual comments on social media sites. Free Americans against Socialist Tyranny sympathizers may include both former and current members of the military with training on satellite communications, computer network defense, network operations, as well as military command and control."'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(Libertarians and) Republicans seem to be against "Socialist Tyrany"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'republicans and democrats, zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is part of a document prepared by the current government of the USA'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Free Anericans" against "Socialist Tyranny"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i found it slightly disconcerting, but it does reinforce one thing - authoritarian regimes like the USA work to reinforce and insulate themselves from the people'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Free "Anericans against Socialist Tyranny"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the democrats don't see themselves as socialists'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Free Anarchicans" against "Socialist Tyranny"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Free Anarchycans" against "Socialist Tyranny"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't get very far if you think the world is divided only into anarchists and tyrants'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Free Anarchists" against "Socialist Tyrants"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you supplied the screed with the divisive phrases'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm merely the messenger, direct your anger at your government'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keLRXZJ-yWg&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialism can only work if it's voluntary, and socialist governments are not voluntary'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'discuss :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the current USA (Democrat) government is against subversive (Libertarians and) Republicans supporting "Subversive Americans against Socialist Reform"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'words with no meaning, zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you meant to say is that the shadow government will do whatever it takes to maintain their grip on power'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pfft Tigernuts (statements without substance),  since any form of government is (usually) not voluntary'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'People should have the right to make bigotted remarks in a society where free speech is valued. Discuss!'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn right they should'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was a quick end to it :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'oh good - I was afraid noone agreed with me Tiger! :P'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only a complete idiot would disagree with that'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'We have racial vilification laws in this country.. if you make comments of an insulting or basically negative nature in any way - you can be charged at the moment.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the laws here are penned so vaguely that they can basically make it up as they go along'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'While blatent racism is obviously wrong, people should have the right to those opinions.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an opinion isn't the source of discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'explain?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'discrimination itself isn't necessarily wrong, either'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'explain? say for argument sake that i said in my opinion women made worse drivers. That isn't discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'Ok, I understand'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which oppressive country is Barahir residing'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if as a head of a delivery firm i fired all the women because i believed women to be substandard drivers, that could be considered discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'Australia'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'Somewhat shockingly to me Tiger, a lot of our employers that require drivers are favouring women locally as they're more likely to take it easy on the vehicles'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Elves are smarter than trolls. As a consequence, you should accept that elves and trolls will have different educational performance, occupations and income. The best outcomes are achieved when policies accept reality, not when they deny it.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'I agree with you.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's technically discrimination, barahir, though if the firms were upfront about their hiring policies, i don't see the harm in it'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i also think it's shit'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'the firms don't outright say it, but they hire just about any female that applies for a position'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'trolls are stronger than elves'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Zade.
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a lawsuit waiting to happen :-)'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'However, we live in a world which increasingly rewards capacity for symbolic manipulation, since we can use machines to do our heavy lifting.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'this country also has a welfare system that pays you more if you're a native australian than not, ie. of an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Island heritage. That to me is racial discrimination.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Nice for elves, tough luck (relatively) for trolls, although they get the benefit of all the nice elvish inventions.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you can bet they'll get away with it because they're women. same way as that we all have to have gay culture shoved up our arses whether we like it or not'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts likely formed that misogynist opinion on women drivers after watching the movie "Clueless"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Barahir nods at a bengal tiger.
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'murika is at war with marriage'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never seen it, zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Mostly with the male side of marriage, it seems. Insane post-divorce slavery rules.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's one way to reduce the birth rate of the white race i guess'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you like 40 million extra people in the USA?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'depends on which people and what the other effects are..'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'are they black?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some are, gruagach, some are muslim - it's the extra population we have int he Uk that we need to offload to become sustainable'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'no thanks, we need more white people..maybe from iceland or something'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt it would've been lower, but some idiots in charge thought it a good idea to pay out welfare per child'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'wow, thats a horrible idea Tiger. '
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'I was amazed some areas of the UK when I visited last year how few caucasians there were in some places.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'and France.. I'm not sure I met a frenchman in Paris.'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'In London, white caucasians are in the minority'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'we are close here in america'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not so bad in rural areas, but the whole place is bankrupt anyway'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'depending on the cities'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Islam is set to overtake Christianity as the primary religion in the UK within 20 years'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'as a whole not close, but a lot of cities are turning'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more like5 at the current rate'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's weaponised culture for you'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'wake up sheeple!!'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'let me grab my gun'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, don't wake them up'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'sorry, just tuning in... is the sky falling again?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let them die'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the sky is constantly falling in, that's gravity for you'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but even that's under threat due to global climate change'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i had to take out a mortgage today for new glasses'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to the wonderful way our single-payer government healthcare system works here'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i get to pay twice - once through my taxes, and again when i need the healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think of a national health service as one here you pay your monthly insurance fee, get no care and have to pay all expenses'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an abosolute bargain'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USamericans are paying far more than twice in the USA -- they pay when a few companies rip out the resources from the ground for next to free, and again when they are unable to earn a decent wage, and again when they suffer from being unable to afford the prices of healthcare jacked up by the rich that robbed 'murika'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats what you get for entrusting your healthcare to a cartel industry of bankers'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'we actually have people whining that they didnt get to keep their plan that was not deemed suitable for a human'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'and not one question on cost of service, just who should pay for it'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you have a captivated market, the cost of service rockets'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've had it now, though, you've put on the devils underwear'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in teh UK they're privatising the health service by papercuts, net result the same robbing of the system by corporate providers'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe the government's best involvement in health care should be to provide low cost competition to a carefully regulated free market'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'whenever i read free market, i just have to laugh'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'show me where free market worked..maybe i'm just stupid'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'free market has always worked'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'okey, name an instance'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are that since you're on the internet, you're benefiting from the free market'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free market" is diguised socialism and protection for the rich -- the politicians are paid lackeys'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you're using some form of computer device'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'oh free market, anyone can make a computer'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's because of the free market computers are so cheap'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'okey'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's because of the free market computers have continued to innovate'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of examples of things people believe are free markets, but are not'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'housing, energy'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'energy was the one i was thinking about'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'here in houston you can choose between 10 companies for electricity.. my rates are higher than my buddy who is in maine who only has one choice'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i bet those 10 companies never collude on price'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and yet if IBM applied more patents etcetera of the first IBM PCs, the computer PC boom may've fizzled, and you'd be paying "Apple" prices on pc computers'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so, are "patents" pro- or anti- "free market"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can be both, zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i feel like i cant argue anything here, i'll just listen'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't you argue?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i dont know enough about the topic, i just feel free market never helped anyone but i dont know why'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never shopped around for something to get a better price?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never taken advantage of a special offer?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and the concepts of "copyright" -- pro- or anti- "free market"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yah, and thanks to regulation i didnt buy somethign that exploaded'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both, zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do regulation necessarily isn't anti-free market'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't necessarily, even'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'tylerone was into regulation...'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'eep!'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kinda important, look what happened to the financial markets when you deregulated them, 2008'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'nothing?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the biggest financial crisis in the world?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you are saying that was caused by deregulation?'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the *numerous* regulations on the food induatry -- pro- or anti- "free market"'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, gruagach, i'm saying exactly that'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was also exacerbated by lots of other things, but that was the root'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'k'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'eat any roadkill burgers recently'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all eat roadkill burgers here, we can't afford meat'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thats enough internet for today for me'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mmm, ratburgers'
T3/r7/2014-03-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'deer and vauxhall bumper burgers'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Brimestone: 'sup'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't ever go camping in new mexico'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you no like the tarantula?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more worried about random police shooting at you'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're probably not police.  Probably cartel.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'don't they have some satan worshippers there?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who knows'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you catch Obama's weird speech about Crimea today?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't pay attention to that monkey'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, that's probably wise'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gorun: 'wow'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he thinks I'm being racist.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does he?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is he, some kind of retard?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's a typical response of the political black person.  Race is ALWAYS a factor, even when it's not.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of politically active black folks that are both intelligent and effective'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama isn't one of htem'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Pumpkin: 'http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024542882'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'this is the basis for my "black people are racist" stance--because they (probably, given their age) live in a world full of racial injustice, they assume that anyone they interact with is racist against them.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the democrats for you'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigerniys is obviously racist against those of the "Barack Obama" category'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is barack obama a race?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'unfortunately, no.  It's enough of all sectors.  There are many "celebrity" figures who have either honestly or publicly gotten past the racism stuff, but even among the "uncle toms" (their term for conservative republican-voting blacks, not mine) there are too many who think this way.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and unfortunately, there's still a lot of racism out there ... as well as a lot of people who blame racism for things that it shouldn't be blamed for'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama is an "uncle tom" lackey, but then with the rich supplying the election monies, any president is likely to be a "lackey"'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's criminal what the establishment has done to black culture over the last 50 years'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of which, what do you think about Nick Cannon's latest antics?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is he and what has he done?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '#whitepeoplepartymusic'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't help'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'dressed in whiteface basically'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wasn't it?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's created an alterego to promote his April 1st album release.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so... nothing new there then'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he probably looked like a twat, so far yet to see a problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he probably looked like a twat, so far yet to see a problem'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whoops'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'define "twat" - other than a female sexual part'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the response has been fairly muted so far, almost tolerated even.  Doing the same with blackface, though, can get you fired, fined, and blacklisted.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well then, that just highlights hypocrisy, which is always a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twat'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's a horse joke for the taking there, but damn if I can recall how it goes.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'politically-correct abominations dislike blackface and maybe jews (Al Jolsen was jewish)'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'number 5, zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Al Jolsen did blackface -- did they blacklist Al Jolsen yet'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i find it difficult to give much of a toss about celebrities'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he didn't just dress up in whiteface, though, he put lots of amateurish effort into acting the part as well.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially shit rappers'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'crappers'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more worried about my stupid Uk government NGO's wanting to ditch toxic waste into our water supply'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't they have something in the news recently about the security camaras?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess everything must be fine, Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin are to seperate'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'puts ww3, police brutality and world poverty in perspective'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"black culture" as in "crap rap" - that "crap rap" is bordering on "criminal"'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '50 years ago was 1964 -- the world was different then'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more black babies were aborted in NYC than were born'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(last year)'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'excellent -world is overpopulated -- although contraception is to be prefered - blame the repiublicans and the christians'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree, blame the disintegration of society and home life caused by goverments usurpation of a role traditionally taken by religion'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they want the government to be the parent'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fake femenist movement has a lot of the blame too, but they're created/promoted by the same people'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise that next you'll be prosecuted for turning down sexual advances from a person who is of opposite sexuality to you'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're a leaky wet fart's distance away from such things already'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"the government be the parent" is partly a result of (expletive) politically-correct meddlers that criminalise parental behaviour unacceptable to their intolerant opinions - and some of your opinions Tigernuts are defective, so perhaps partly blame the "Tigernuts" category'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is defective?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and are we using the Zade definition of defective, which is "disagrees with Zade"'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what would Jesus say'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matthew 7:3 or 7:5 or 7:1-6   '
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Jesus is a submissive homo.  He says if someone slaps you you should turn the other cheek.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Zade 'd normally supply the scriptures, but the Tigernuts technique is to assume the channel does the lookup (in the NT Bible)   [unlikely]'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ was a holy heterosexual, and, being without sin, was neither horny, nor depraved, nor homosexual  '
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Hanslanda insult to the Christian religion does indicate the gender preference of Hanslanda'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(playing the part of a submissive Jesus in the soap reenactment is Sheldon Cooper of tBBT)'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'omg..obama made an offhand comment about a nuke going off in new york..and all the teatards are losing their shit'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a new word!: "teatards"'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'another label for the morons living off the government, or are you making an insensitive reference to those babies who have problems latching onto mom?'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"teatards" --> teapartyers'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'teahadist if you will'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hanslanda, "teetards" is spelt different to teatards'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'the tea party started off with such great foundations... then the social conservatives "take back 'merica!" folks took over :('
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'teet is not a word, Zade.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'backed by the unions and big business..such a great foundation'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the little dangly bit that babies suck on is referred to as a teat.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but are teapartyer teatards "living off" the government'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yes.'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'most of the states that support the tea party movement are some of the highest in welfare from the federal goverment'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's probably not a tea party exclusive'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'google image search tax dollars spent vs raised..'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'all red states, outside of texas..all collect more than they put in'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems the teaparty movemnent is" less government, less taxes, less services, less everything, except capitalistic taxfree greed and unbridled exploitation'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is not sure what the teaparty movement is about other than something to do with the boston tea party
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless the teaparty movement is simply a disguised: "no Obama - he's from Kenya" '
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'but yes edward, canadia is good'
T3/r7/2014-03-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless the teaparty movement is against everything bad -- ordered anarchy!'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The bible is nothing but rape and slaughter, argues Zade'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jude 1:13 (loosely paraphrased) "Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own confusion: wandering (wannabe) stars, to whom the storm of darkness is reserved for ever."'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jude 1:10 "But these men blaspheme whatever things they know not: and what things soever they naturally know, like dumb beasts, in these they are corrupted."'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jude 1:8 "In like manner, these men also defile the flesh and despise dominion and blaspheme majesty."'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what do you think about making college mandatory in the US?'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'stupid idea'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'mandatory? not everyone graduates from high school.'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I believe a college education is a good thing, but it shouldn't be mandatory.'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why so?  Keep in mind that the unemployment rate for college grads is 3.4% or so, 6.x% for high school grads, and nearly 10% for dropouts.'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you can go to tech school for plumbing rather than a college.  I don't know any unemployed plumbers.'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'some people don't have the motivation for college and it would be a waste of money for them to go and fail.'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'plenty of opportunities for non-college-grads, and college education offers no benefits for quite a few occupations'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'vegetable-sellers, actors, actresses, waiters, waitresses, toilet-cleaners, janitors, hoes, call girls, mistresses, may definitely do with a college education'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'that way no one hears you'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'reading story on the 2 oklahoma death row inmates suing to know who makes the lethal injection cocktails, worried that they might be conscious but unable to communicate during the execution (they're not challenging their convictions or death sentences)...one of them was convicted of the rape and murder of his girlfriend's 11-month-old daughter'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'fuck you and your rights, I hope you ARE awake through the whole fucking thing, and it takes 3 or 4 tries'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'whats wrong with a baseball bat to the head?'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hella lot cheaper'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'perfectly humane'
T3/r7/2014-03-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kylac: 'i think we should carve their hearts out with a spoon!'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'People have the right to be bigots: discuss.'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, Turkey has become the west's Iran'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bigotry is a matter of perspective'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'I don't see intolerance as a matter of perspective'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bigotry is not soley defined by intolerance'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can manifest as intolerance, contempt, hatred, distrust, or fear'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the prejudice itself could be either justified or unjustified'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is nothing inherently evil about justified bigotry - it's just necessarily the most effective or useful manifestation of an opinion'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unjustified bigotry is clearly wrong'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i, for instance hold in contempt the willfully stupid, have a hatred of authoritarians and those who push to micromanage the lives of others, and fear violent tyranny'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that makes me a bigot by the textbook definition'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'well it is having those feelings based on any number of characteristics that are independant of justifying it'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the case'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can call someone a bigot because they manifest those feelings about people with those characteristics. They might be entirely justified, but because you are unaware of, or don't share that opinion you still call them a bigot when they arne't one'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's your opinion at that point bereft of basis in objective fact. That makes you a bigot for calling someone a bigot'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts said (paraphrased):  "those that are justified in their bigotry are not bigots. and to label those justified bigots as bigots is bigotry"'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though said badly'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better to say, those who hold view whom are accused of bigotry whose views are justified, are not bigots, and to arbitrarily label them as such because you disagree or misunderstand their views are themselves bigots'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to say that "justified bigotry is not bigotry" is almost "murdering" (or at least straining) the english language'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, english language isn't my strong point'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, if you understand that concept than i consider that good enough'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so better to define bigotry as unjustified prejudice'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do people have a right to be bigots? yes'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope - too flipfloppy'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like they have the right to enjoy crap (digital) music or smell of petuly oil'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course they do but they don't have the right to discriminate in employment or market transacations offered to the public'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'generally correct'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and by discriminate I mean on the basis of protected statuses'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfairly discriminate would be a better turn of phrase'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you add the "unfairly", you are immediately demonising the UK government'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bigotry is bigotry, so justified bigotry is yet bigotry -- no flipflopping on-off the "bigotry" with dubious adjectives and inadequate justifications'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no unjustified murdering of the english language'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you must be very careful who you call a bigot, zade, because chances are you're wrong'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let's just say it used more often incorrectly than not'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you Tigernuts are a bigot, even if you believe you are justified in your bigotry'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am not a bigot, but you are for calling me a bigot'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'big bigot'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its soooo stupid: there was "do you like those ads?" yes/no?  in youtube recently. so i have clicked 200 "no's", now they are showing ads without the skip button. idiots'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i dont think i've ever been hit with a youtube ad'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'i get them about 1/3 of the videos'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'you just need an ad blocker then you'll see 0 ads'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'must be why i don't see em'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, that's what I'm guessing, scars'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i've been browsing with adblock for... wow.... i can't remember a time i didn't really'
T3/r7/2014-03-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '30 second ads now.'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'hi'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ads are nasty'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, FBI cuts ties with the Southern Poverty Law Center, probably a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's still lots of "Russia could invade at any minute" garbage'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'to be fair, Russia could invade at any minute...'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'and obama wants to take your guns!'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'if men can marry men and we have no guns, god will not protect us!'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by that argument anyone could invade anyone else at any minute, lachdanan'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm beginning to suspect that Gruagach is Zade's bitch'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thats what they want you to beleive'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the way he speaks through you without his mouth moving that gives it away, that and his hand down your trousers'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i dont even know who zade is so i'm not sure what you're saying..but considering the source i will guess it is just trash and useless'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'Zade is a god amongst men'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade > gruagach'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they're pretty similar, both ridicule anyone they disagree with without having ever expressed a cogent thought in their life'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'what are pretty similar?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'so you think obama is tryign to take the guns, okey..'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'well enjoy your entire day on aard, i'll be back in 12 hours, i fully expect you'll still be here'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt it'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that it's Obama's goal to disarm the American public is not in doubt'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has to if he wants to be a signatory to the UN convention on arms'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can't do that legally because it requires a constitutional ammendment, so he does it illegally through creeping controls'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'new england clam chowder and boston clam chowder are different.'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'but they are'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude is agreeing with that Princetonwu person again...
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Don't Bore Xyndor: 'suddenly I find myself wanting some clam chowder.  origin does not matter.'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'i'm eating one now :)'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Don't Bore Xyndor: 'a clam?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'yep '
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'food, on the debate channel -- you are deliberately attempting to ruin debate -- i've seen how irc chat-rooms are ruined on IRC'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Don't Bore Xyndor: 'we cant debate food?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you were not debating food, you were gluttonising'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'mmm this chowder is SO GOOD'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Don't Bore Xyndor: 'sue me.'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'sea food is vile-tasting - reeks horridly -- likely diseased or infected with something'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'what would you consider is edible?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some humans are without a keen sense of smell, and they die sooner'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'tofu'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'even if the association is there, you have to prove cause-effect :)'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'yeah i dunno i tried to jam the jam but it didnt work'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crumbs'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bbc news reported that turkey had banned access to youtube because someone had "leaked" a secret recording of their top military brass planning military actions in Syria'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what the bbc didn't point out that this content showed that they were talking about deliberating attacking themselves (a religious tomb monument of significance) trying to make it look like the Syrians in order to justify military intervention'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd have thought the content was noteable, wouldn't you?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'well calvin told me a hard head makes a soft $ but a hard .i. make the $3x last'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'a hard head makes a soft $'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'hey i cant post certain characters'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so the Turkey turkeys don't want the Turkey public to be as informed as the nonTurkey world'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, just another NATO ally being caught red handed in dodgy military dealins while hypocritically talking down to Iran and Russia'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Turkeys are attempting to emulate the 1939 Nazis'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trying to emulate the USA'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you saying that the USA attacked the USA at 9-11'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's likely that they allowed it to happen, what is certain is that USA attacked USA in the Gulf of Tonkin to promulgate the Viet Nam war'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also certain that USA got Israel to attack USA in order to try and get USA into the war there in the 1960s'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also widely suspected that intelligence about prior knowledge of pearl harbor was suppressed in order to allow the attack to enable USA to enter WW2'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a common military tactic, doesn't make it right'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'the humility of peace?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best thing to do to Turkey is cook it in a warm radioactive bath'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly be time to leave the EU if it joins'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fil?'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'if you're in the EU, just leave if you can.'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'don't wait'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not up to me'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'did anyone else read about this ludicrous sentence - a mixture of one year jail and probation for manslaughter? what is the world coming to? http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/ex-famu-band-member-gets-1-year-in-hazing-death'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'hazing automatically make s me thing the person that hdied had a chioce at some point'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'base federal guidelines for involuntary manslaughter is 10-16 months'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'man ive done more time for doing 1000 dollars worth of damage to someones property'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'no idea the specifics of that case, though'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'well if you want to read about it its linked in the comm logs'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hazing is a worse crime than racism'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Yeah, who's line is on, so...nope.'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'whose line*'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'the issue is someone died'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'someone was beaten to death by a bunch of people'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'i dont understand how it was done in the spirit of hazing has any relevance'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the lenient judge on that hazing killing desrves to be hanged drawn and quartered'
T3/r7/2014-03-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a mob killing - a murder by hazing'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'looks like Title IX is to be applied to spectation now.  What a shame.'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how is it that Ukraine had combat dolphins but the US doesn't?  That's just insane!'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, we do.  hmm.'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'HS teacher fired for taking student to ER?  Makes me wonder what for.  It would be pretty awesome if it were something serious but not entirely 911ish enough to require a speeding amulance, but not-awesome if it were some sort of end-run like Plan B.'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'seems she's paid medical bills for students at the er before, been instructed not to do it, warned, and given suspensions'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'according to the school'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'you know they detain you indefinately in hospitals then charge the government like 1000 dollars a day'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princess Liathum: 'You can leave AMA.'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'its a huge scam'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'any citation that this is a common occurance ?'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'occurrence '
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'ive been detained in hosptals for as long as 5 months in one setting'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'it varys from 2 weeks to 2 months 3 months sometimes'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what did they say they were detaining you for? mental issues?'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'medical issues?'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'they said they couldnt discharge me till they had a place to put me'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'were you underage or something? why do they need a place to put you?'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'it doesnt make sense tho - one day in the hospital is the cost of a month of houseing in a halfway house'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princetonwu: 'you cannot leave AMA if you have a 5150 hold'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'no i was like mid s30s'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'if you have private insurance - the insurance refuses to pay for it'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'so where did they put you when they found a place?'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'if you have medicaid they milk you for every dollar'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'most private insurance maxes out at 2 weeks'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'i mean its the billing policy that enables the stay'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'hospitals always check for billing first'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'its how the government gets defrauded out of hundreds of thousands of dollars'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'when i got shot my 1 week hospital stay and 2 week physical therapy was like 130k'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'ive also generated like 150k hospital bills from being held for 5 months for no reason'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'i never asked to be shot - i never asked to be involuntarily detained'
T3/r7/2014-03-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nitzy: 'and yet thats a quarter million dollars'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, you get stopped by the cops now outside washington or colorado states or having a washington or colorado license plate'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no big surprise there'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'NY/PA border used to pay attention to people buying fireworks in the PA shops'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should just have customs posts at the state borders'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any news on the planned false-flag attack by Turkey to justify military involvement in Syria and the leak of this discussion that led to TUrkey banning all Youtube access in their country?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'earthquake in LA! Must be anthropogenic global warming caused by the public not giving up adequate rights or tax money'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'quickly, pay al gore money'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'manbearpig, mmmm'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look on the bright side, the EPA is looking to regulate dairy cow farts'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'we could just stop raising dairy cattle all together.'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'but then what would men eat?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'quinoa beans squash? the three sisters'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'men, not their wives..'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't care what you eat, provided it costs you more money'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'well you could be a man and hunt'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, that's racist'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'no one ever uses that racist comment.. its called a straw man'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'just because you have a crazy idea and people don't agree with it, doesn't mean they call you racist'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would require a gun which is illegal (or should be) and hunting wild animals is illegal because the animals are of the earth and therefore belong to the state'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll eat what your masters give you and you'll be satisfied'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'hunting doesnt require guns'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you can shoot sticks'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'or even bows just your feet'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'thats why we are long distance running animals'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'tiger did you read about the guy who got arrested for having a muzzle and some home made bullets, without primers?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'america is the best'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no no no, you can't hunt animals, it's what rednecks, terrorists and conspiracy theorists do, you're not a dirty right winger are you?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, in DC who are in violation of the supreme court'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'i personally dont hunt or eat animals'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'just stating examples'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you don't eat meat?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i eat meat happily. Vegetarianism is a bit daft imo'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'nope or consume any animal product'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'actually been raw last few months too'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come on, Sorvez, put bunny in the microwave'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'wow..full in huh..'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'plants are alive you know'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'hah my wife threw our microwave over the balcony years ago'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'they grow, they feel'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'sounds a bit crazy, prob the lack of meat'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'screaning death to the cancer machine'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'she is a little more hardcore then me'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i think the past 3 decades have shown that to be a myth'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is a myth? meat causing cancer?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'think he means micros'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'we have people who's job is to work on cell towers and around high power microwave waves... they seem fine'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from the research i've seen, people who use cell phones heavily are at higher risk of ear-specific tumours, but other than that, a small proportion of people are sensitive to EMF radiation, but that's abou ti'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'there is already strong correlative data that eating more then 4 ozs of meat a day leads to cancer'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'being alive leads to cancer..'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'no hard link yet but im convinced it is proba ly there'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, sorvez, there's also a strong correlative link between those eating more than 4 ozs of meat a day and being fat and unhealthy'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thats cool man, just as long as you know how crazy it sounds to other people sorvez'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything causes cancer'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'practically all the meat is dangerous studies have fatal design flaws and/or are misinterpreted'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'for instance, it is only in the past 2-3 years we've been seeing studies differentiating between actual red meat and products containing heaps of shit + some red meat'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, the episode of "Surviving Jack" the other day, he says something about working with people with cancer...his wife says that he just works with patients, not people with cancer...he replies everyone has cancer, it's just a question of to what degree'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're trying to stick fluoride in our water here, some crackpot corporate health NGO, despite the fact it's been proven time and again that it does not help dental health but does cause brain damage to infants'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the causes of cancer are complex, but to feed cancer cells properly, it appears that you need carbs and insulin, remove that and they don't stand much of a chance'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'wait..'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a scientific paper doesn't make something accurate'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i didnt know you were that type of person tigernuts..it all makes sense now'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada points at Tigernuts and yells 'EEEEEEEEEK!'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'next you'll be telling me the peer review process isn't perfect'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were even talking about pumping statins into the water supply'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'peer reviews aren't perfect...'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the peer review process is useful, but it's still a bunch of people moderating another person's work. If the moderators are fucknuts then dodgy stuff will get through'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'a little bit of bad science + a product = profit :)'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'stock phrase, an uncorroborated  "proven time and again",  so there!  QED!!'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'much like opensource isn't bug-free'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'zade, throw in an "on and on and on"'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and if everyone agrees that the earth is flat, peer reviews/editors/whatever won't like round-ish earth theorists'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I loved the episode of shark tank where the guy came on with the ion wristbands and cuban basically laughed in his face'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the nba ended up getting a contract for similar merchandise so cuban had to sell them anyway at some point'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'stringing the Tigernuts two 'gems' together: "proven time and again", "a scientific paper doesn't make something accurate"'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost snickers with Zade about their shared secret.
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how would you like to trim some of my quotes word for word to make something completely new, Zade? MSNBC-style?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'Redryn is convinced that your "invitation" is likely a veiled "insult"'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers intently at Redryn.
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'Perhaps MSNBC "style" is leftist ignorance?'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'shh i'm channeling'
T3/r7/2014-03-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i might need to 'lean forward' to understand what they're saying'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'so is it a good way of saving money on unemployment?'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'and encourage muricans to work?'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooo, long island residents are going to be subjected to warrantless searches/inspections of their house if you are suspected of having an unregistered tenant'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is one thing right with this policy, and two things wrong, hopefully someone can name all 3'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rev 13:17 "And that no man might buy or sell, but he that hath the character, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also reminiscent of "registered tenants"'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was actually less concerned about the tenant registration, living in a country that has an electoral role'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roll*'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'new study finds women who drink 2 diet sodas a day or more are 30% more likely to have a heart attack and 50% more likely to die early as a result of heart problems'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the evils of aspartame and nutrisweet'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'diet colas are painful to drink - diet colas cause pain and discomfort'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'any soda is painful to drink. What's wrong with water?'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the added chemicals and pollutants in "ordinary" tap water'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'then buy bottled water'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "ordinary" tap water tastes horrid'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'that depends on where you live'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "bottled water" tastes worse - the plastic taste, and the occasionally added poop taste'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'sounds like you should continue drinking soda'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least "tap water" is handled less than "bottled water"'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're fine with filtered tap water or natural spring water'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this has to be seen, Obama speaking in Europe, note the rapturous applause he receives at the end'
T3/r7/2014-03-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mVFrdWIs2LI'
T3/r7/2014-04-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nato to hold military exercises in Ukraine, now tell me that isn't a provocative act'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flak: 'What are you wearing, Jake from State Farm?'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'uhh.. khakis..'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oooOoo, Russia could invade Ukraine in 12 hours notice, says Nato general. Scarey'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I think they could invade with under an hour's notice'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'He probably checked flight plans on some website'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..some heretics claim they already invaded, of course, the general might be a bit slow'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'as long as we're not fighting canada or mexico, let em have at it'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmmm and it turns out the EPA was testing deadly pollutants on humans, often without their permission'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all under the pretenses of pushing Obama's clean air agenda'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'it wasn't without their permission, but they didn't disclose all the risks to study participants.'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'it's not like they were sneaking car exhausts into your office when you weren't looking though'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, they have done things like that, but in this case, that's just as bad'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we won't mention the injecting thousands of black people with syphillis'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'meh, people signed up to do a study on harmful pollutants and be lab rats.  what did they expect'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they expected to be told of the risks, one would think'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lesson learned, don't be a lab rat'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of reasons why you might want to be a lab rat'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, if you suffer from arthritis and you wanted to be part of a new treatment, you'd take it, but if they forgot to tell you it could kill you, you might rightly be pissed off'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but that is not a study on pollutants,"Here breathe these diesel fumes, we pay 50 bucks" no thank you'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and don't get me wrong, i'm not defending the fact they didn't disclose things, but people need to think beforehand not after'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you're doing stuff like that as a government you need to be utterly above board'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do agree to a point, but people are told to trust their government'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't, gruagach calls you a tin foil hat wearer'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'trust no one, but yes they dropped the ball'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you've false accused others before'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'name it, zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'qed'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'qed isn't a false accusation'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tsk, feigning  clueless and or obtuse'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'zade, why do i keep logging on this game and seeing you behave that way?'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'entertainment'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'its entertaining to you to act like a 16 year old?'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that high?'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the second debate over the EU, United Kingdom Independence party leader Nigel Farage beats Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (Fake Liberal Democrat Party) 68-32'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cough*biasedreporting*cough'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it was 68-27, i got that wrong :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '5 were undecided'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was the second victory in 2 debates, first one he won by a smaller margin'
T3/r7/2014-04-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Germany they've established a lesbian-only cemetary. One wonders what would happen if someone wanted to establish a whites-only cemetery, or a men-only cemetery'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'oh gawd  what are we blaming obama for today?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i have heartburn'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'all the misgivings of the US as a nation'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol dag'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i haven't been very active recently and can't always be here at the same time as nuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it all makes sense if you just do 'debate -h obama''
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'heh i was here for that convo'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'the clean air one i mean'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'physics sucks because noone can understand it anymore. that new discovery there.. some waves.. doing something.. screw that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'mathematics has been there for years ;)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lame'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people understand physics just fine, apart from the media, who don't do science at all (as can be seen with the coverage of climate change)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'climate change, obama, abortion, gay marraige, military, gun rights, obama, entitlements, healthcare, marijuana legalization, obama.  I miss anything?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it a list of?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'topics'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not exhaustive, but if you want a take on anything i'll merrily give you one'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm sure '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you missed feminism'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, feminism'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i was trying to keep it relevant'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have a campaign to ban 'bossy', but don't bat an eyelid at arab countries legalising marital rape'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol my 5 year old came home from kindergarten today and they had a talk about 'bossy' lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what did oyu want brought up?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'nothing really i was just taking a break from doing the budget lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'lol the 'ban bossy' campaign, i remember that'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'but im pretty sure feminists aren't fans of marital rape either'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah, feminists are mostly political diversions these days and deliberately so'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feminism is a fraud'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'why do you think that'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they're fighting fights that serve no purpose and ignoring real discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the point of banning the word bossy?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'feminism isn't just one thing.  Some feminist sects are crazy, some are great.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'the ban bossy was one dumb thing a handful of people did'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'they dont in fact ignore real discrimination, they're constantly pointing it out'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where are the feminists trying to get people to value to role of mothers again?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'somebody retort "Tigernuts is a fraud"'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'feminists aren't doing that because gender roles are bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and that's one of the points that they make'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gender roles are not bullshit, unless you have an example of a man giving birth'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'having a baby is not a role all women have to take'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'Gender roles don't have anything to do with birthing..'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'they did the ban bossy thing at my daughter's school today actually.  but i live in california for the time being so go figure'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what hte helll arey ou talking about'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having a baby is a role ONLY a woman can take'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'gender roles are culturally enforced life paths that society pressures people to take'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're being willfully dumb'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'Right, gender roles have nothing to do with what you can physically do or not.  It's more about cultural expectations of behavior'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'that's not a gender role, it's a biological role'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'willfully dumb, so men CAN have babies?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'it's a biological role.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hindus and their discriminatory "caste system"'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a genuine one, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'the caste system is messed up, too.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'so you think all women should be forced into the role of a mother?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'not everyone wants kids'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and THATS THE POINT'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is forcing them into the role of a mother, Chippah? nobody'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's certainly true that the role of a mother has been devalued'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'society pressures women to have children, and that's a gender role. '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what are you talking about, how?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does not'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aardwolf and the pClass system'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'So should value women and men regardless of their choices (as long as those choices aren't hurting anybody)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm a stay at home dad with a military wife that lives in a town populated with Punjabi people....  i got all these topics covered lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'women should be valued if they are mothers just as much as if they are not mothers.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, i think what nuts is trying to get at is that a woman who chooses to stay at home with the kids has made a choice just as a woman who chooses to remain childless, and both choices should be legitimate choices for a woman to make.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who devalues the role of mothers? all the people pushing women to shove their kids into daycare at year 0 and have a career'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you sound like one of those asshole mens rights activists'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no one is pushing mothers to do that, they have to get jobs because the economy is fucked'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and some women want to have careers.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'nobody is pushing women to do that either, nuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then let them'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you are insane'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're seeing discrimination where it doesn't exist'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'Empowering women such that they feel ABLE to go out and have a career is great.  But nobody forces anything, or nobody should anyway'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'where am i seeing discrimination that isnt real'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the one screaming and shouting'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'i don't remember 'screaming and shouting''
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? deb -h 20'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'i remember dismantling every argument you threw out there and making you look like an ass'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're insane!'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shouting "you're insane" isn't demolitioning an argument'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said modern feminism is mostly pointless shit and gave example of things they should are about (Zade gave one too)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually i dismantled your argument and THEN called you insane, because you sound like you stepped out of a fucking time machine from the 40s'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you haven't given anything to the argument'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then pray tell, let us know how western women are being discriminated against and what feminists are doing about it'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually i did, i corrected you on what feminism says, and i explained to you the difference between gender roles and the fact that women can have babies'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many gender roles and biological roles are linked in a fundamental way'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'women are constantly objectified in media, the internet, music, real life, everywhere'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'feminists speak out against that'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, chippah, and women -never- take advantage of that either'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"females are paid less" (because they may get pregnant or something)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true here, zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'so you're saying that it's okay to objectify women because some of them take advantage of the fact that they are treated like objects?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if women want to be objectified that's their choice'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'wow. tiger, are you and MRA?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a gender role'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and be honest, don't lie. '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what an mra is'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I'm not sure if he's trolling or a chauvinist'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'a mens rights activist'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't think feminism is l'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"female clothing is overpriced" (because "kept women" are supposed to be supported by rich men)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I actually think SOME MRA points are valid..  Where's the prostate cancer month?  Why only men for selective services?  Child custody favors the mother, still'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all true, marquess'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you have a half a point about the prostate cancer, although companies sponsor breast cancer because it has a sexual connotation to it'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you go about thinking that biology plays no part in gender roles, then you're probably a very unhappy person'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'gender roles are bullshit.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'so does prostate cancer... for some people... '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'people who don't think gender roles are stupid are usually conservative christians'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'biology play a part in every single thing we do.  But the thing is, we're all sentien and educated now, so we easily rise above it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and we all know how reasonable those people are'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'we aren't slaves to what our biology wants to make us'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because you have free will to choose doesn't mean that gender doesn't make you better suited to certain things'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'well, I don't necessarily think we have free will.  But gender roles aren't even about being better at something, either'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no one is saying there aren't differences between sexes'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'that isnt what a 'gender role' is, ane xample is toys for little girls are always princesses and pink and playing house and shit'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are differences between "races"'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'it may be stupid, but the whole thing with gender roles is simply that some people feel more comfortable identifying as something other than what their culture would label them.  And it's just a matter of respect to let them pick their own label.  To not do so is to think you know more about them than they do'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'we push girls to be pretty princesses and we teach boys to be superheroes and build things and be creative with their toys'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there's nothing wrong with that'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'YES THERE IS'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, there isn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'yeah, there really is.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you realize that makes you a bad person by saying that, right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, no there really isn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're a caveman'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'th is isn't the 1950s'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Americans "push" immigrants and mexicans to be cheap labour'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your point of view was tried in the education system in the 1960s and it left a whole generation of people with a deeply substandard education'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I remember I came home with a rolly poly in a bowl, and I was trying to "feed" it and take care of it.  Well my dad made me feel like a sissy girl for playing with a bug, so I took it outside and squashed it'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'the making boys identify with superhero's really is detrimental'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'women are people who can make their own choices. they don't need people like you to make them for them'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'that's a pretty trivial story, but that crushed something inside of me.  And it was all because of some fake, arbitrary, cultural thing that my dad had in his head that I shouldn't do that'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'how's this for discrimination and gender roles... i'm a stay at home dad so i do all the things  a stay at home mom does but i STILL have to take care of the cars, lawn, pool, home maintenace, etc... sheesh..'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'what are you talking about tiger, that's a wrong'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'forcing kids into something is bad, encouraging them to do things isn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Vaporz.
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit of a difference between buying your 3yr old boy a toy car and forcing him to play with one'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'its bad to encourage girls to aspire to be pretty like barbie instead of stimulating them intellectually'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and if you disagree with that, you're a horrible human being'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but is Mr Chatterly's gardener a female'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is there anything wrong with encouraging a girl to play with a baby doll and take care of him? is it wrong to encourage them to do creative arty things?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it wrong to encourage a girl to play nurse?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'what you should do is show your child every option: being pretty or tomboyish, action figures or stuffed animals, playin outside vs books, whatever'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you're objecting to is damaging behaviour, not gender-specific'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you shouldn't encourage a child into a gender defined career or life path, you let them decide what THEY want to do'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'more often than not girls will pick "girl" things, and boys will pick "boy" things, and that's fine.  But the thing is giving the option, and not making your child feel weird for picking the unusual one'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dont let your kids to read books! look at me now, look at all of you people! playing mud, 40-50 years old'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, marquess, this whole idea of forcing kids was chippah's thing'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually it's your thing, you're the one who thinks it's awesome'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't really have much to do with feminism'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually no, that's just a figment of your imagination because you think you're talking to someone with diametric views to yourself'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I personally hate the term 'feminism' even though I'm pretty left-wing feminist type myself.  I like humanist, and saying that I'm for gender equality'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no, it isn't.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I think the term "feminist" is inherently sexist'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe in equal opportunity, or equal outcome'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and I dont agree with feminists on a lot of shit as well, i hate their language policing nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'but fundamentally, they're correct in the things that they say'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'I more or less agree chippah'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're obsolete'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(here)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should fight for the rights of women in asia, they're the ones being fucked over'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you just ignore discrimination because you're a white man and it doesn't affect you'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'they aren't in asia, they're here. '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a white single man, i'm in the single most discriminated group in my country'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and there's still a lot more ground to cover in terms of equality in america'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'HAHAHAHAHAHAHA'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'poor mr white man discriminated against in america'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not in america'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you're single tiger? no way'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'where are you'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'hahah vapors'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'okay well you're still wrong then'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a big problem with positive discrimination here'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marquess: 'and whites don't get any positive discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no, you're still top dog - you just hate that you're moving more towards equal footing'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do, marquess, it's all part of a rabid political-correctness agenda'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'so you perceive every instance of a minority receiving help as a slight against you'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts changed from "colored brother" to "white man"  - Tigernuts is a liar'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm only black when talking to the police, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'is it wrong to get my daughter a pink crossbow for Easter?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and when Tiogernuts is supporting hispanic jews to murder afro-americans'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, vaporz, you're a bad person'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and clearly racist'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by buying her a pink item of clothing you are permanently diminishing her life chances and causing emotional turmoil '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'expect CPS knocking at your door any minute'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'afk, putting baby to sleep'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'CPS (Child Pedophile Supply) is a known for bad decisions leading to the death of children'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i heard the horror stories too, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'tigernuts wow way to miss the point'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok, but try to do it in a gender neutral way :)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's because they get paid per child 'rescued''
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no they don't, that cant possibly be true.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the point is that you've failed to point out any way in which women are discriminated against here'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'and what's better, NOT removing kids from abusive homes?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'chippah that would be better than making them homeless, right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'actually i did. I said they're routinely objectified in all aspects of society and you brushed it off'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's better is removing kids from abusive homes and NOT removing them from NOT abusive homes'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'why not just remove the abuser instead'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'i could give you 50 examples and you wouldnt suggest a single one'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'objectification of women is not discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'vampire that doesn't make sense. Remove the parent and let the kid be homeless?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'men are equally objectified'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no they aren't.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger it is when they start being discardable broken down old objects'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes tehy fucking are'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no they aren't. sorry.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'chippah, men get objectified too'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'not like women do'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'there's chicks out there that see them as piggy banks and workhorses for example'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you a man, or just a dyke?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'go on any reddit thread with a picture of a girl - there will be a shit ton of posts talking about how they want to fuck her'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do the same thing to a gathering of women with a picture of a nice looking man and you'll get the same'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'a 'dyke', listen to you calling people dykes, you're a fucking idiot'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'transferring children from "politically-incorrect opinion" homes to phyusically-abusive vhomes where the children are murdered is a heinous crime by the CPS'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no one is transferred from politically incorrect homes'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to understand the reason behind your absurdly one-sided view of the world'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'that is a fantasy created by idiots'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'forcibly transferring children from "politically-incorrect opinion" homes to physically-abusive homes where the children are murdered, is a heinous crime by the CPS'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you're making yourself look a spoiled little brat tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? your entire argument is based on the fact that men 'objectify' women. It's wafer-thin'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you disagree with the objectification of -people- then great'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'no it isn't you little shithead, that was a single example i gave you of discriminaton'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except it's not one-sided'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chippah: 'you are a psychotic loser, i'm turning this channel off'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's one bitter puppy'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you leave, you miss out on the practice of debating (silently insert expletives here)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'Zade, never argue with an idiot, he will always win'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll have to tell all the women in the office tomorrow that men are never objectified, they'll piss themselves'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'disgusting misogynist misuse of the p***-word, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry zade, what is the the politically correct version to replace it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(that is gender neutral)_'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(no laugh-track)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll manage'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's why feminism isn't on Vaporz' list of topics'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exploding feminist syndrome'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"i'll have to tell all the women in the office tomorrow that (insert inflammatory? witticism here)" (no laugh-track) (you supply the laughs) (if any) (or the stern silence) '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're the life of the party, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'think that the economy is awful - most people cannot calculate anything. every economy stands on the zillion shoulders of "psychological math processors". myself included. (im drunk, forget if something is wrong here now)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is a psychological math processor?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the simplest one: beautiful=expensive'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sound money is a racist thing. if you believe in paying your way and not having debt you're one of those crazy conspiracy theorists'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i think that's what the issue is - debt and stupid economics is seen as trendy'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'beautiful = free'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no. beautiful=fuck me but give me all your money:p'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you just slip back into the feminism argument?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oh.. there was this feminism discussion.. no. didn't follow it'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what's your take on economics then?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'psychological numbers.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give us an example'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no matter how many people doing a strike. no difference at all. the outcome will be -12%'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'my take on economics i learned fom my grandmother... if you can't pay for it with cash you don't need it (unless it's food, water, shelter :P)  that last bit was my amendment'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '8-18%'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'fuck'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '8-12%'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-12% to what?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '10 is a good number. everyone is happy'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '1+%'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '10%'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'shit'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and by "cash" i simply mean money already earned'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'economics is human/consumer behavior *shrug*'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'too drunk for debate'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most sense i've heard all night, Hwuai'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nah. the "psychological number" is my invention. im gonna get it trademarked or something.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'i prefer philosophical numbers.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'first ima get some rules for it. like "everyone goes crazy if its gonna cost 2x more than before".. aso'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing like 'friendly' numbers i keep hearing about, is it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the change from saving to buy, and buying on tick has happened within a generation'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'nah, 2 generations   the last generation to save was WW2 generation'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here, 1970s'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it got pretty hairy here in the 1970s'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'then the baby boomers spent and now this generation buys on credit'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'yeah here is all i can speak abnout'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there are a large number of people with good incomes who are one missed paycheck from not being able to pay the bills.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think there really needs to be a serious economic event that causes a lot of bankruptcies'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a shame they bailed out the banks, big mistake'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mortgages are next up for bailout'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd better not bail them'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so you'd like people to no longer trust in banks'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't trust them now, zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you bail out mortgages too, you might as well admit that you live in a fascist society'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the banks are more reliable than in your pathetic scenario, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're even talking about getting rid of Fannie and Freddie.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that Barack Obama was deliberately incompetent - but then that is likely what an "uncle tom" lackey-to-the-rich does'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they're reliable when the government uses your money to back them up'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or perhaps he accomplished everything he set out to do, Zade.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but lets see, the banks lobbied for regulation, then used people's money to make reckless bets that screwed up the market, then got taxpayers to bail them out. Where's the penalty for taking risks and failing, exactly?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's to stop them doing it again?'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banks must be allowed to fail, it's essential for the markets to work properly'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly would've cost less'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hence the "deliberately" incompetent -- Barack Obama was treacherous and underhanded '
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'well plenty of the smaller banks fail so the bigger banks can gobble them up :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is a puppet'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many economic commentators still claim the big banks are essentially insolvent and may yet fail'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope they're right'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if they are, they'll need a good scandal to keep them afloat.  Like GM did.'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the bailout may've been worded to heavily penalise the personnel, Ceos, directors, of the banks (cut their salaraies, no bonuses, long jail terms in hard labour prisons)'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kobus: 'hrm....'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps a few lengthy drawn-out public floggings to the death of the crooks running the banks'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'we can't even get the wealthy to serve the proper sentances let alone something extreme like that'
T3/r7/2014-04-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/03/31/american-justice-for-the-wealthy-no-prison-for-du-pont-heir-convicted-of-sexually-molesting-his-child-because-he-would-not-fare-well-in-jail/'
T3/r7/2014-04-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, the socialist chairman of UK parliament's climate committee want a crackdown on people who don't toe the government line on climate change, including making it harder for them to get airtime on tv and radio'
T3/r7/2014-04-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '0h4 '
T3/r7/2014-04-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ooh, an AirAsia magazine editor's getting disciplinary action for a boastful article about not losing a plane because it was written and printed far in advance of some other airline's lost-plane crisis.'
T3/r7/2014-04-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'double after this double'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Peaches Geldof found dead at aged 25. Another victim of pointless celebrity culture, no doubt'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's some fucked up goings on in the Dave Bundy case - people attacked and arrested for filming from the side of a highway'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Boston, people re being arrested for trespass on public property if they refuse to be searched by transit police'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, lovely, tripedia's dtap vaccine hasn't been tested for carcinogenic, mutenogenic, or fertility effects, and lists as it's possible sideeffects: autism'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'is it still going on?!'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which?'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'that autism thing.'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, yeah'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was decided a couple of decades ago that the potential risk to health from vaccines were outweighed by the benefits to the pharmaceutical industry, so they set up a court to shield the companies from any kind of legal challenge that would force the risks to be priced in'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccination might be good on balance for mankind, it certainly isn't always good at a personal level, and not all vaccinations are either good or even effective. It's a bit of a kid-in-the-candy-shop job for the pharma industry'
T3/r7/2014-04-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yay!  The US navy is soon going to be making fuel in situ from seawater.'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should i include sevastopol on the multiplicity of a visa application, or '
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'wait for it to be calmer'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i really wanna see bokhara only its not russia anymore.'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sigh.'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'does vector algebra exist?'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't give an ai + bj + ck about vector algebra. I my divergence curls at the sight of nabla!'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: '^'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not content with screwing up the world and trying to make the people pay for it, the global elite are now suggesting that the "plan B" for climate change will be to move people into climate controlled supercities'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"climate controlled supercities", a possible codeword for "euthanisation centres"'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, just agenda 21 hell holes where you'll be expected to be crammed into 250sq.ft apartments and have your calorific intake closely controlled by the state'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like they're already legislating'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is likely reading "The Onion" '
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'just think of the opertunities!'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local and UN planning police, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'minimum building density here is now 28/hectare'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'every bit of legislation to do with planning and housing puts house prices up'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sooner WW3 breaks out the better'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is trolling badly '
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything is trolling to you'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Necroshine was more informative than Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well when you have something to say, let's hear it'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'preferably in analog format, you know how badly digital opinions are reproduced'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the NIPCC report on climate change is a bit dense at 1063 pages'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"(This page left intentionally blank.)" - (except for the parenthetical footnote) -- if there, 1062'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1062 is not blank'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1062 is the tail end of an appendix showing the growth response of a large number of common plant species to increased CO2 concentrations'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'burning fossil fuels will help feed the world's growing population'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(to a point)'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rising ocean waters from increased CO2 may assist in reducing the numbers to feed'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it won't, unless you plan on putting concrete boots on people in coastal areas and chucking them in the sea'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am in a position to give you an accurate measurement of how much the sea levels have risen here in the last 32 years'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zero'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lowering the standard-of-living by offloading soon-to-be-drowning immigrants into other countries, shall permit further exploitation of those countries '
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no immigrants will be drowning unless they're africans on those smuggling boats, or unless you plan on drowning them'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so all that work on the Thames River to prevent tidal flooding from rising sea levels was ..'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was to pretect from tidal flooding, not rising sea levels'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sea levels would barely have to rise at all to overwhelm them'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Tigernuts wants more of his "affrican brothers" where Tigernuts resides'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a friend of mine advocates euthenising everyone with an IQ under 130, i might agree with him with comments like that, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it happens, the population density of this island needs to be reduced by more then 50% for it to be a sustainable, green, country'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'climate change predictions suggest that the food potential of Africa will significantly improve'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps the UN is hinting that Africa requires more "dustbowls" - did the USA reclaim the dustbowls for vegetation yet'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN disregards data inconvenient to it's narrative, it'll keep on pushing for a banker-owned world using NATO as it's jackboots'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what the USSR did to central asia (in the pursuit of growing cotton) was an ecological crime (of gross incompetence)'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Russians also sabotaged the Obamacare website and force millions of people off their health plan, putting premiums up for everyone'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn that Putin, he's such an arsehole'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'AND he set off that Ebola outbreak in Guinea'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a chance for Dagnir to type: debate thanks putin'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he said that, he's clearly pro-Putin and therefore an enemy of the free world'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so by inference, Tigernuts may perhaps be acknowledging that  Dagnir is pro-Obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's a front - by so publically and repeatedly backing someone who is clearly a creature of corporations and the mafia, Dagnir is showing himself to be pro-Putin and therefore an enemy of the free world'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by thanking Obama, he is implying that Obama has specifically made something positive happen, when he should know that positive outcomes can only come from the state. By showing he doesn't believe this, he also shows he is an enemy of the free world'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'George W Bush said it himself, you're either with him, or you're with the terrorists'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you wouldn't disrespect the office of the president by disagreeing, would you? That's a criminal act'
T3/r7/2014-04-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's sedition!'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you are welcome'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'when did disagreements in schools turn to weapons instead of fists?'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has been suggested that US troops might be sent to eastern europe'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'interestingly, americans who don't know where it is are much more likely to favor intervention'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'I wonder how many Americans would support invading Middle Earth.'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're more likely to be able to find middle earth on a map than Ukraine. a Recent survey shows only a 16% success rate'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm guessing about 15-20%, based on a superficial resemblance to the middle east'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what's worse: that 84% of americans don't know where ukraine is, or that they can vote'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't we round up all the stupid people and make them fight to the death?'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20 people stabbed at pennsylvanian high school - time to ban all knives'
T3/r7/2014-04-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'There may be no one killed in that attack, unlikely that would have happened with a gun.'
T3/r7/2014-04-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK wasted $750mn pounds on useless Tamiflu stocks, USA wasted over $1bn, that's what you get for letting your government be bought off by pharmaceutical corporations'
T3/r7/2014-04-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and...... militia from across the US descends on the Bundy ranch in Nevada to defend them from Federal overeach'
T3/r7/2014-04-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds pretty dangerous'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks Dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Queens Speech June: Fracking companies will be legally allowed to trespass on peoples land and screw it up by paying only 100 quid in compensation'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'From the Miss North Carolina organization:  "It is our hope that our wonderful North Carolinians will also support Johna [Miss North Carolina] in her statewide efforts to eliminate literacy"'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'This state is awesome'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'who needs literacy'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"She has also diligently promoted her platform of eliminating literacy every week since she was crowned last June."'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'Charity starts at home :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just think, the democrats want everyone to be like her'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'See, that's why I started this conversation on debate channel.'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Knew it was the right place'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts -)
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry i was late'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never understood why they let beauty pageant contestants speak in the US, they never did in the Uk when they still did them'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(back in the 1970s)'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't broadcasting them trying to talk a bit like mocking spastics?'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'I dont understand why we still think beauty is something that can be judged'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it can, like singing can'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact it's subjective isn't really relevent'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Oh, but they have talent portions of the beauty pageants now, too'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably has to do with feminists and/or self-titled progressives'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't they just be pretty?'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'btw, regarding "back when they still did them in the Uk"...the current Miss Universe Great Britain is Amy Willerton from Bristol (she was Miss London 2012)'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't televise such things, they aren't big business'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't personal object to such contests, it was just the silly americanised versions i was ridiculing'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe they'll do a version where they're topless and stick it on BBC3'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently a 6.6 magnitude earthquake struck nicaragua'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: '21m Earthquake: M 6.6 - 11km ESE of Nandaime, Nicaragua'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a tiddler'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what we want is a magnitude 9.0 centred on DC'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'putin vs obama - who is richer?'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably putin, until Obama's speaking tour kicks off'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'think POTUS salary is something like $110K'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people in high office don't get most of their wealth from salary, but from inside trading and backhanders'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'POTUS hasn't had his wealth tied to the POTUS salary in hundreds of years...'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'putin already has 28$bil worth of things'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Oh, it's $400K now.  More than I thought'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'still, less than it's ever been'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '(adjusted value)'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much irrelevent, what are his expenses that aren't covered by the state?'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'He gets $169K on top of that for expenses'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Has to buy his own food in the white house, has to pay for his own laundry to be done'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'his wife takes care of that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'do they have mexican housekeepers in white house?'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said, the POTUS salary is about the last thing you need to worry about'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if you are the president of usa, you can print a book every year and get 5mil'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or publish a cd and get 10'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i hate my president:( he is a joke'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'politician, they're nearly all a joke'
T3/r7/2014-04-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal nods at a tiger.
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade looks at Obama and chants, "H! E! R! O!... Obama is a Hero!!!"
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. wolfenstein, doom, quake.. i never really liked them, these were the 1st of their kind but still.. whatever was the 2nd after, was better.'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are we talking originals, or franchises as a whole?'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'wolf - 1st 3d game(with textures), doom with nice advanced angled walls and a bit of this and that, and quake - free look and stuff.. but they were boring.'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'boring? thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: '...but bush'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'edwardo cruz is our only hope'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i hope americans arent too coward to vote for him'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'descent was exiting, ut was awesome, halflife had soo cool atmosphere.. and then doom3 came and tried to do it once again.., i hated that game so much (by the end:p)'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'half life was awesome. thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the UN thinks Black Pete might be a racist.'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'of course they do. Lots of chars like him are a product of a different time when views of ppl were different.'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then again, you produce and deposit millions of sperm but only one and sometimes a few more (but never more than 8) get egg access.  The rest die off due to the extremely hostile environment you abandoned them to.'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cattibre: 'non-partisan, democratic world government please'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cattibre: 'discuss'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in Connecticut, a 16yo is sent to prison despite not being convicted of any crime...'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'there's a guy serving life without parole for lending his car - felony murder rule'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'in florida'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'but I'd like to see that article'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trepid: 'what about the 16 yr old in prison?'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://news.yahoo.com/why-trans-teen-being-sent-prison-she-hasnt-211624041.html'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trepid: 'that sounds confusing.  what the heck'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'basically, they don't know where to place "her" due to a law meant to prevent prison rape.'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trepid: 'weird'
T3/r7/2014-04-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'being a "her" by itentity, if they follow the "below the belt" rule of thumb they're effectively sending a female to a male prison (should she be transferred) or allow what is probably a fully-functional penis to moreorless run unfettered in the women's prison system.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'or maybe debate that question actially'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i say aoe generally especially large rooms while cping'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alerno: 'aoe is faster and you get more xpm than single targeting the mobs'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Askani: 'aoe if you can tank all the mobs in the room, if you can't, then single spell'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'good way to get extra tps aarch pieces etc'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it actually can be slightly faster to lv by initiate with skills and do like two mobs at a time unless they just die too fast'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh the selfestemeee guy?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'que?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'pasa?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'murky boobcups'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what ever i did - you're welcomeu'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'unless it was his mom.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'that's not the sort of thing you can tell him he's welcome for.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'how would one determine or calculate the interest rate that a stock experienced during ten years'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'r = antilog((log(f/p))/n) - 1'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'f=final, p=principal, n=numberintervals, r=interestfraction'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'ok thanks just one more question what is antilog?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(hrm, not homework)'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'nvm i got it'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'looking at the inexpensive ($6) scientific calculator, the 10^x is there reverse of log(x), perhaps the base10 antilog(x) = 10^x   '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'looking at the inexpensive ($6) scientific calculator, the 10^x is the reverse of log(x), the base10 antilog is 10^x , the baseY antilog(x) is Y^x (where usually Y > 1)  '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'f=p(1+r)^n , log(f)=log(p) + n(log(1+r)) , (log(f/p))/n = log(1+r) , r = (antilog((log(f/p))/n) - 1) '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'am I having one of those college flashback nightmares, again?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a refresher is educational'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of those analogue scientific calculators, of course'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the inexpensive calculator is circuit-based, and not exactly full "digital", the screen does display "digits" and other symbols'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'circuits use the analog effect of moving electrons'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like people power won the first round in Nevada'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'is the LCS on this weekend?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what is LCS'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what he said'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'LoL tournmant'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'LimeyC***S*****s'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see Zade's returning to racism'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the stalwart crutch of the far left'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, if you are going to use racist acronym cusswords, ..'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'LCS'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'read channel history once more....'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'type "debate -h lcs", see where tiger used that term...'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm still confused.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no need to be confused, Zade's just being usual Zade, speaking nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i am refering to blackmagik's use of the acronym.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe LCSers do some LCSing this weekend -- but BlackMagik used the acronym, and Tifgernuts dived in with vile accusations of "far left"'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, jopari used the acronym, you jumped up to give that acronym a racist definition, and tigernuts called you out on it'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and that's why i'm still confused.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'oh well, cest la vie.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'LoL Tournament...League of Legends'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jopari said "what is LCS"'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want some real racism, watch Eric Holder's diatribe: http://tinyurl.com/kc8a6r9'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'afk, runescapin'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what's that to do with LCS?#'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ignore #'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'LCS, LoL Championship Series'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'it is awesome'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'in a moba sorta way'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it as pointless as facebook?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'if you consider winnning millions of dollars playing a game pointless'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'then yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Psychonaut BlackMagik: 'otherwise, no'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts mumbled something about Nevada, BlackMagic may've called them LCSers, Jopari requested the acronym be explained, Zade provided an UrbanDictionmary interpretation, Tigernuts resorted to vile namecalling, ..'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'whoa. that is pointless, millions of dollars spent for people playing games?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'people spend $800,000 per hour on candy crush..gaming is big'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'just as pointless as any other sport'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, my cousin won 30k playing at an NHL [console] game tournament'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're a bit rubbish though'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that was for second place'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sports is at least good for you, name a tangible benefit from gaming that isn't money.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ask the air force'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'usin ur brain matter'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a very valuable skill for them'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who do you think pilots the drones?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'games are fine, just a shame they've been ruined recently'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perfect, we've got gamers piloting drones?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who would be more qualified?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'playing sports being useful for staying physical fit has no bearing in justification it is more worthy of billions in dollars of revenue for people to watch it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'paying to watch a sporting even has as much physical benefit as paying to watch a video game tournament to the viewer'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade perks up:  "games ruined", how
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'by adding pictures'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by making them all online multiplayer rather than being single player vs the computer'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by making them generic vs having a point/plot/start/end'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'on both sides of the gaming tournament you lose, not just on the viewer's end as in sports.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'by making you need to pay to have a decent chance.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Jopari.
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the money-making model hasn't helped game quality'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's one of the reasons i'm here actually.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wow, we just had a decent debate start up, then it just...died.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because we agreed'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'couch potatoes watching sports does not provide the couch potatoes much exercise'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that was already covered, zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'looking at both sides, sports is more beneficial.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'acknowledged, however no one countered my piint.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'video game tournaments provide a lot of finger exercise'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'stiumlation'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'carpal tunnel syndrome.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'my left hand gives me stimulation'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what pint was yours?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'guinness'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'point, i meant as in that sports competitors receive benefits while viewers suffer on both ends.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'what?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for a very narrow view of suffer'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perhaps.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unless someone can show that watching video games is better than sports.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'yeah not sure how I suffer from watching gaming tournaments, sure is a lot less then all the concussions from sports though'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's neither better nor worse'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'they are equal though..'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there my point is made.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'lol?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'watching games tournaments can be argued to be an alternative to real clan-based conquest'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as viewers are in the same condition, players are not.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put in that context you could argue you are becoming less of a man by watching sports'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'players are not is debatable'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'clan-based conquest?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clan/community/family/social group'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'm so confused.. what are you even trying to say jopari'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'give me a sec, grugach, and i'll organise my thoughts.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'soccer games are more dangerous to some of the audience at the stadium'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'the last hockey game I went to a puck flew over the glass and smashed my knee, had a bruise for like a week'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yet to hear of video game hooligans'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'yah, in those countries that cant afford any other sports and have nothing else going on for them...it is pretty much all there is to do in the entire country..its easy to get heavily invested'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'haha soccer is for the poor'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'viewers of both sports and video games are in the same condition, while it's players are in different condutions due to actions performed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sports are an opiate of the masses'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'distract them from the fact that they're being screwed'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, have you seen their paychecks?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'physical atheless are in better shape than e-sport athleets? k'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'as much an opiate as alcohol or cigs or women'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would say more so, kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the big leaguers make a lot the ninorbguys make a little'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perhaps, then it would be the same as video gaming tournaments, huge rewards for the few.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i feel like professional soccer would be so much less fun than highly skilled casual soccer'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'thats how the world works dog'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully the feminist brigade will come along and get sports banend'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the special are the few and they get paid special'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banned*'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i debated that topic once, tigernuts, it was darn fun.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'why do feminists care about sports'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, as it is a common factor, it's pretty irrelevant in the debate.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'guys dont give a shit avout soaps or talk shows'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a male-dominated endeavour, kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'because they arent involved, and their husbands care more about the players than their work gossip'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'supposedly because they want equal representation.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already have equal representation, jopari'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though in this case, feminist should be replaced with female supremacist, '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same thing, jopari'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no point sullying the names of the few who actually do act upon it's original meaning. '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i would hire a female over a similarly qualified man.  not just for social reasons but bc women are more pleasant and maybe i cld fuck her'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, seriously?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, says the married guy with a newborn...'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Kojiro is talking bs, and does not believe what Kojiro is saying'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yea, why?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'my wife would of course be in on the action'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'no, that will happen in your life man..give it up'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'she has ultimate approval in these things'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'so beta, dont say things like that outloud man'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you use cusswords, you doubt what you are saying and or you are wrong'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'stop, please. i don't really want to go there.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'oh and women are just better workers'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'depends on the person and their backround, trollolo statment'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'originally feminism aimed for equality between the sexes, then, some people hijacked it to give them better lives, while masquarading under the idea of feminism.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'eventually feminist and female supremacist became the same in the eye of the public.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'not in my eye'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's now just a devisive political tool'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'his 3rd eye..giggity'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what isn't in your eye, kojiro?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i dont mibd feminists as lobg as they are reasonable.  like the sexes have major differences'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'and stats show women are majority grads in the us increasibgly even in professional schools'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you missed a feminist on here a few days ago, she definitely wasn't reasonable'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ilater incarnation?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'later*'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"hijacked" (feminism) to give them better lives --  as though Jopari (the misgynist) does not believe that females deserve "better lives"'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's the point kojiro, equal chances to make it, if you work harder, you get it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'personally i find college adminisitrations synpathy for womens groups disturbing when stats clearly show its the male gender which struggles.  but they do better in the corporate world on avg'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'being a white male in america means you are garbage'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hard to say, women are breaking the glass ceiling.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well everyone except feminists realise tha, gruagach'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'if thats the social value there are a lot bigger fish to fry.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what social value?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you get no hand outs, you get overlooked for promotions, you are always considered to have a silver spoon even if you are just as poor as the next person'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they break the glass ceiling, they can bloody clear it up'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'meritocracy'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'good point kojiro.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"but 'they' do" is ambiguous, as "they" is not specified - Kojiro is obfuscating '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'im not menstruating'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'zade, that's a bit of a jump.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you need to menstruate then, kojiro'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, he means aiming to confuse.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'oh'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'well hes the one obflustering'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jopari (the misogynist again) is accusing females of vandalism, "breaking glass ceilings", tsk'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'uhh, glass ceiling, the social studies idea i think.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts (also the misogynist) pictures a "bloody" cleanup resulting from the breaking of glass by females'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'whats ur pt'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry people, need to sleep, here it's about 3 a.m. G'night.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i love women especially when they are down to party'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love women when they're over there and objectified'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'which im guessing coincides with ovulation.  they cabt really cobtrol those implses'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, i mean that equality is happening, just that now the scales are tipping in the opposite too much.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'in some places i think yes in some places no'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but men and women have different ibterests generally so wld expect different representation'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'fewer fenale sciebtists and ebgibeers is bot a shock.  and nobody keeping them out.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"just that now the scales are tipping in the opposite too much" <-- that (Jopari) argument was used 50 years ago to suppress females  '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i doubt that'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade more women graduate college than men.  think avout that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'maybe thats really important when it cones to sone view that females are disadvantages'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think it has, back in 1972 a study indicated they receive shorter sentences frlor the same crimes.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women are discriminated against in many asian and african countries, in the west, i can't think of any instutionalised sexism'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'females require to be much better merely to compete with males'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'ahahahahahahaha'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'proof, zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'forget the date, i'm probably wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'fiendish said it best'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes i think Zade lives in 1890'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'back then i think chivalry was in effect.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts needs his nuts made into peanut butter powder!'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts gasps as he realizes what Turie did.
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what?!'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll have you know that my nuts are an endangered species protected by UNESCO'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade if me and a woman were on titanic and one life jckt id take it by force'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'always classy, Koji, always classy...'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'even in the last century, males were saying that females did not deserve to be paid as much for the same or more work because "they may get pregnant and take some time odff" (so they may cheat and pay them less)'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'unless it was my wife bc i love her'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'maybe not kojiro, people have done stupider things.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'the truth can be stark and revealing abe.  try it sometime'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's all I know'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dude, last century evidence for current century argument?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'somehow slavery too righr zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'truth is revealing, kind of in it's nature.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what do you mean kojiro?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'im anticpatibg zades next clever argument'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'slavery is alive and kicking'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'tigernuts is right there.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yep, Jopari is attempting to continue the misogynism of the last century into this century (by using similar and different arguments)'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the similar argument is now supported by current evidence, as such, you can't dismiss it by saying, 'that's last century!''
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if that were so, women would never have been able to try for equal rights.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade dont let your emotions blind your logic'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'last century misogynist argument: "women are underpaid, but to pay women fairly 'd cost too much and 'd ruin the economy, so they must be paid less"'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'women are paid equally now, i hope for it to stay that way.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'laws, remember laura cox?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Slavery is alive and kicking Tigernuts' nuts.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i am not a misogynist, asking for equality isn't being sexist.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'turie, your obsession with his nuts is disturbing.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turie's just doing his Zade impersonation'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'maybe turie is ovulating'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I thought it was more of a merger of Zade and Kojiro.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'saying that "woman are paid equally" when they are yet paid less, and then adding "hope for it to stay that way"  is misogynistic'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts is just mad some woman gets paid more than him is all and got that promotion he wanted.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'zade what about maternity risk to an employer'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not much greater than paternity risk'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'currently they are paid approximately the same for equal work, the only reason people say the gap is as large as they say it is is because they don't factor in working hours'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'rather working days.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in many countries (US in particular), men have just as much right to take time off as women for having baby'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but it is greater and tgats my pt'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'legally it's not greater'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'FMLA covers both the same'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'In the U.S., median income for full-time, year-round women is $37.8K.  Median for full-time, year-round men is $49.4K'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I believe that both parents should have the right to be at home for the first 6-weeks on the child's life.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'this isnt about fmla.  a man works until baby born.  woman takes last but off.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'median within what jobs, madcatz?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now compare like with like, madcatz'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in the US, men and women are given exactly the same amount of time off for parents.  It's just that the man culture puts pressure on the man to get back to work faster.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it is about fmla, as that's the only thing which legally allows either to take off...and men don't have to work until baby's born'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'full-time, year-round jobs in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'plus a woman is more likely to give up job for baby'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still not like for like'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's very vague madcatz.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you're comparing janitors to doctors...'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'My point was that Jopari's point is "the pay gap is due to less working days/hours" wasn't valid.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'this isnt about the lae gooofy its about employer cost and therefore employee atra tiveness'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the pay gap is largely due to different roles women take'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'lae goofy?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I agree, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'But that doesn't make it OK'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it does'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'law goofy'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it makes it fine'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it most surely does make it ok'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Just like there are societal reasons that caucasians make better grades in schools than african-americans'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'doesn't make it OK'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unless you're advocating that janitors should make the same as doctors'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the same, madcatz'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'kojiro, then your argument mean all employers are male.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'You can say that women get paid less because they take lower paying jobs. That's a fine argument to make. It ignores the fact that society treats children differently based on sex.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'catz u need data intra profession'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'No, I'm advocating that there shouldn't be societal pressures on women that force them into lower-paying jobs'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not forced into lower-paying jobs'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so more females graduate, but on average they are paid less -- yep, biased discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Not "forced", OK'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Society in the US treats people differently due to skin colour.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'But still pushed towards them'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that is grasping at straws, unless it proven women have far better grades in the fields specified.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'which is why the jobs you refer to is important.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'nobody forced them to pursue lower paying fields.  its not 1950 where woman was a.nurse not a dr'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, zade, women are currently representing better as top bread-winners than men are.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'a female enployee has higher costs than a male'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'thats just biology of motherhood'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Why are there more men than in science and math fields in college, both undergrad and graduate?  Unless you're claiming that they're born that way'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now there are male nurses and female doctors. though for males it's harder though.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'societal pressures'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so where were those extra graduating females "forced" to take jobs, so that statistically they were paid less on average'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a bit of both, madcatz'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yes catz gender interests skew.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'If you are going the route of going to the doctors, then you need to tread carefully. The reason behind that issue is guys do not do regular checkups like most women do.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'because of society or because of nature, Kojiro?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'hell look at lang development and brain.  clear gender diff'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because there are societal pressures doesn't mean those pressures have no reason to exist, nor does it make them wrong'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'are you saying that their math teacher is sexist and gives better grades to men on math? is that even possinle?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'they are both linked catz'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Children are pushed in different directions by established culture. Ideas about what it means to be a scientist or doctor or engineer have strong sex biases. Focusing on adults making adult decisions, ignoring the fact that how adults speak to children shapes their lives is stupid.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'possible*'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I'm saying that society is sexist and makes women less interested in doing well in math and science than men'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually I find the opposite to be true in schools, fiendish'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those "sexist" things you see originate from biological imperative'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's a rather large influence currently to push females into "sciency" roles'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'i think some of both happens but women interests dont skew toward math and science'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'only because there's been a huge lack of doing it in the past, Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'he argues the opposite kojiro.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'The same debate would be going on if Amazonian ruled.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Abelinc: you mean some people are finally recognizing a very real problem'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's meaningless, madcatz'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'male and female brains are different'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'just checking it isn't male against female on this channel, is it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not a problem at all...'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is if you're madcatz, jopari :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thanks for clarifying.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'biology and society are linked.  its not a hard concept'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'If someone's daughter said they wanted to be a nurse when they grew up, most parents would be happy with that.  If someone's son said the same thing, many parents wouldn't be.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'male brain proceeses different.  nale vody different.  differwnt hobs.  shocker.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I go out to dinner with a couple whose son is a nurse'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i would say that in my class, highest scoring in science and math is females, madcatz, many choose otherwise because they want to pursue other careers.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Point is that from a very young age, men and women are pushed towards different occupations'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I have two man students who are right now in the nursing program and members of HOSA.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'whether it's from the toys they're given, or the conversations about the future they have with parents'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the point is, that from a very young age equality is drummed into everyone with a hammer'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the other point is that your point is disagreed with'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'catz even tgough true its not determinative'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but is this male nurse gay or straight or unsure'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all we can do is offer the equality of opportunity'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not inequality to not be interested in something'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what women choose after that point is the business, societal pressure or not'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what he said.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'These interests are shaped by society, though'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'more women graduate from college bc they were pushed there from society'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't change society by dictat'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: '?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i don't argue that they aren't, but though they play a role, they are hardly the determining factors'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you change society by changing the way you act'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Turie, what do you teach at that school'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I'm applying for a job at an all-female school, btw :P  Wonder how that's going to go.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Algebra II.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll go with you being arrested in 3 years time'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'fine, madcatz, your personality will shine through.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'high school level, or college level, or university level'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'an instance of countries trying to change society by dictate is China.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'university'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'all fenale university what a fuckibg joke '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'undergrad is all-female.  graduate is coed'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they now want to institute a law to make children care for their parent's spiritual needs.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'officially, at least.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's one of those things where it really is reverse discrimination...chix0rz can force their way into male schools, but you're a perv to try the other way'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'madcatz, that seems problematic.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'thats disguating.  like having an all white school miborities not allowed'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'There are all black colleges and universities.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just like you can have a magazine named "Black male" and it's empowering...but try a magazine named "White male" and you must be part of KKK'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a remnant of the old society.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I agree, Abe.  You don't want to be the male teacher that points out that a girl is violating the dress code because her skirt is too short.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod turie: there shouldn't be'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rather, there should have been in the past, there shouldn't be today'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are no all-black colleges.  They are traditionally black, but they accept the few whites that attend.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'yhink hans is right'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'There are some of the traditional black colleges that are trying to get white, asian, and hispanic students into their colleges to mostly get the federal funding.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'but somehow all male or fenale schools can exist.  just pathetic'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'There can be if they're not federally funded.  Don't know if any actually exist, though'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/03/11/list-of-womens-colleges'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I would not at all be surprised that the alumni and support community try to discourage non-whatevers from attending, though.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sexism or racism, stil discrimination, it would be best if all were welcome by meritocracy.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meritocracy is not allowed, it's not sufficiently progressive enough'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://www.eduinreview.com/blog/tag/all-male-college/'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'lets start with a hundred pct estTe tax then'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'There are 4 all-male colleges still in the US.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Oh look, we agree on something, Tigernuts!'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '(yes, I know you were being sarcastic)'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'nobody wants a true meritocracy'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'those that do are minority.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'meritocracy would mean I'd actually have to work for a living'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'We cannot have that!'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'G'night.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Back when I was a substitute teacher, when they were going over the school rules and dress code and stuff, they actually told me that -- don't even bother saying something to a girl if they're showing too much skin, etc., the pushback you'll get won't be worth it'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I just get a female teacher or administrator to deal with that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz nods.
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wonder if anyone can name all 15 factchecking sites in the US...?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's only 15?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in the US, there are another 44 scattered over the other 5 populated continents.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The Onion, Wikipedia, Urban Dictionary, ...'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://www.marketplace.org/topics/elections/list-fact-checking-websites'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd be curious to know what definition you're using'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a study from Duke U, led by Bill Adair (a founder of Politifact) identified them.'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Politifact" sounds almost too pretentious to be believed '
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you're looking for fact-checking sites found by bill adair, not fact-checking sites...there aren't 15 in the US and 44 on the other continents'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are hundreds of them in the US alone'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fact checking websites need to be taken with a pinch of salt'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but more information is usually better'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well yeah, since every single one of them has their own agenda'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'precisely, just like all the news has it's agenda'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't matter the source of the news, only that the bias is understood and information gleened'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'agreed'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why i find it funny people who drop onto here to complain about sources of stories when those same people won't believe anything unless it came out of Rachel Maddow's arse'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because MSNBC are clearly unbiased'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'like fox, fair and balanced'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the bbc, and rt'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Rachel Maddow female,  if yes, is Rachel Maddow young and pretty, if yes, why is Tigernuts misogynistic'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone pointed out that RT was a Russian propaganda channel. Like really? I didn't know that. An english-speaking russian news channel. What are the odds?'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks Dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-04-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, the IPCC is at it again, get ready with yawning and popcorn throwing'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'so quiet, did nobody feed the trolls today'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, IRS targets Ron Paul'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'The irony is the IRS targets itself!'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'needs to be disbanded, really'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'targetting Campaign for Liberty is clearly a politically motivated move'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's rather worrying that there is an absurdly high mortality rate of people in the liberty movements'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suicide rate for CIA whistleblowers seems to be nigh on 100%'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts: Do not blow the whistle on your CIA information.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is not a reliable source of confabulation'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but a reasonable source of sound ideology'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'True....Starling is more reliable.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because my sources are not analog'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Even Kojiro is more reliable.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zade only accepts analog sources'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, MIchael C Ruppert is dead, suicide, Sources: HP, Heinz, Branston'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "nigh 100%" is the dubious confabulation'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"seems to be" does imply 'gives the appearance of"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly doesn't imply "is a incontrovertible fact"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that seems to be right'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless "nigh on 100%" means "nowhere near 100%"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts is the next Kojiro.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Are Turie and Zade married?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in which case Tigernuts is attempting deceit with deceptive bad english grammar'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whistleblowers'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't blame me for your terrible comprehension skills, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Zade: Blame Tigernuts lack of knowledge of the English language. It is his second language. We have to give him a break.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a tosser'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"nigh" (adverb): near, almost. (adjective): near, closely related. (preposition): near, close to. (archaic verb): to approach.  Since "Monty Python and the Holy Grail", some may misconstrue :nigh" to mean "ni" or "not"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when did you stop being a communist, Zade?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"niggle" is to do with petty triffles, "niggard" is stingy, "nihil" is nada, "nil" is naught, so "nigh" may as be a disguised "almost near to naught"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'definitely a communist, or a fed, or both'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is a (liberal) warhawk against communism and corruption
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pull the other one'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obamah'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'the lizard people are in control, on record!! i have the documents..praise jesus'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ed Milliband does look like a lizard...'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade used to be a Republican warhawk, but then the vile corruption of Ronald Reagan happened
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'ST. Ronald! all hail'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look like a communist, smell like a communist, probably a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is a socialist against commumism
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is a socialist against communism
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so a communist who is too scared to admit he's a communist then'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: '1776 will come again!'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'DO YOU UNDERSTAND YOU EVIL NEW WORLD ORDER'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'something something obama..something hilter..something something wake up sheeple..something something buy my water filter'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decent socialists are not communists'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when it comes to government, they're identical in all practical terms'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is a likely a closet communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well 1, we don't have closets, and 2. i'm not'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i've been on debate almost ten minutes and haven't plugged a product yet'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'well, this debate reminds me of Monty Pythons argument clinic'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'motley bunch tonight, elf'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Communists lie. Tigernuts lies.  ergo, Tigernuts is likely a communist .  (but more evidence is required to be definite) '
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'tigernuts isnt even american..aka communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a serf'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'All cats are animals, a dog is an animal. A dog is therefore likely a cat? Is that right Zade?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'most likely'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mackerals live in trees'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'flawless logic'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'pwn'd by the elf'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope, since there is definite evidence that dogs and cat are different'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but there is no evidence that Tigernuts is not a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's plenty'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts as a communist is likely lying about the "plenty"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my ideology and stances on issues are considerably proof that i am not a communist. the same can not be said for you'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who confessed already that you are a socialist, which is just a trendy way of saying you're a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts suggested methodologies of oppression that are very "communist"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decent socialists are not communists, and communists are not decent socialists.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'communists are perhaps despicable abominable vile corrupt socialists, but coomunists are not decent socialists '
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best place for socialists and communists is somewhere else'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dem overpriced linens'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i just bought some linens. shit's expensive'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'linens are pricey, beef is pricier'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dat 450 thread count egypt cotton'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'beef's not big here. we're more about pork'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir . o O ( thanks obama )
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the corrupt Tigernuts logic is: "since some citizens are criminals, than all citizens are criminals"  or "since some socialists (the corrupt socialists) are commusnists, then .. (blasphemy deleted)"'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'thats sad, where is that at dangir'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'estonia'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying, zade, is that you were a communist and now you're a socialist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Estonia, Russian speedbump'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'zade was a communist and now he's a socialist. wake up, sheeple!'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no, Zade is saying that Tigernuts is a liar and is a likely a closet communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yup. and a really fucking good speedbump'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade was never a communist
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying zade is that you're a communist pretending to be a socialist because you don't want people knowing you're a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'this is how good of a speedbump we are - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tannenberg_Line'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i was (more likely, originally) a Republican that evolved or changed into a (decent) socialist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying is that you once pretended to be a Republican to get acceptance, and now it's trendy to be a socialist you can lie less about your communist ideology?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nice try, obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts dislikes the monarchy, and communists dislike the monarchy, ergo: Tigernuts is likely a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go tell Ukraine to stfu and stop causing trouble, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts wants the government to pay for his medical condition -- that is obviously a desire for socialism, thus according to Tigernuts, Tigernuts the socialist is a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'both of you are fucking retarded. good night and thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the family background here: always against communism'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ was a socialist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ was not a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ is a socialist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ is not a communist'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'ohh no, now the fiary tales are in play'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'is santa a communist or socialist..he is the only one that gives out gifts, but he gives them to all'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus speaking to the good socialists (Matt 5:45) "That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust."'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, do you like to debate?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus is even superior to Santa (since Santa gives good gifts to the good, and (say) "lumps of coal" to the bad)'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade used to irc debate
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'dalnet ftw?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'undernet'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i was one of the only real teenagers on dalnet back in the day lol.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yeah but people who love Santa and not Jesus are considerably nicer people than people who love Jesus and not Santa'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'more were real back then, less bots'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'being nice doesnt pay the bills.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'but a lot of the other teenagersthere were really old italian men '
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i got some grammar advice and didnt have to send photos. '
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"being nasty" comes with a karmic price'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'yep, the fish smell'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'insufficient data to resolve the "fish" idiom'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, its a candidiasis thing.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are several types of christians: those that follow the decent teachings of Jesus, and those that follow the nasty teachings of the Christian churches'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade  and dont forgot the ones that met jesus, like joseph smith'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'and joan of ark'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'VampireDude, not going there, that "fish smell" idiom is disgusting '
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, its the karmic price for being nasty tha you spoke of.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jesus Christ never existed, so the others did not "meet" Jesus'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong, VampireDude'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, you said a minute ago he had teachings. top flip flopping. you off your meds?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'uuuhhh'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taveris: 'agree'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'there's plenty of evidence to suggest that jesus of nazareth was real'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'whether or not he was the son of god, feel free to be a nonbeliever, but the man was real'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'and scars has the scars to prove it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Karma is able to be far more subtle and or devastating, etcetera'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, so youre saying karma is real, but jesus isnt?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'lulz @ karma belief'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should we start a mantra and ask krsna to free us from our karma? rather than a mass to ask jesus to free us from our sins?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Scars, there is no actual credible evidence that Jesus existed as a man or a god, and there is plenty of (subtle) evidence that Jesus Christ is a fiction'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'no one is stopping you'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'a mass takes more than one person, just like a cult'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also note that: the nonexistence of Jesus Christ is separate to the existence of God'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taveris: 'i dont really believe jesus cause many unbelievable things happen and to much miracle'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'seperated by what?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Purple HazeKnight: 'Was Jesus Caucasian or Middle Eastern?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'libyan and jewish why?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude peers intently at Purple HazeKnight.
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'no one is stopping you'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since Jesus was a fiction, Jesus was obviously white and heterosexual and holy and decent and good (since whitiness is next to godliness) "Praise Jesus!"  (okay stop, enough praising)l'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'now youre just ranting.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'is canada dry ginger ale made in a socialist nation?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Christian and Judaic Bibles are color-coded:  White (as snow) is good   Black is dark and evil'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'zade, answer me re. ginger ale'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'ok, guess ill just ignore you then since you seem to want to have a one sided spamfest rather than a debate.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade dislikes the (Sodium) Benzoate is those inferior Ginger Ales
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'VampireDude loses'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'looks like everybody's marking the occasion today.  Boston Marathon's been evacuated.'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'convixted tsarnev yet?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Jokar is so last year, VD...'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'hans, i traded a batmobile the ther day'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did it have all four wheels?'
T3/r7/2014-04-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'yep, it was the heroclix one'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haha, Ukraine sends it's troops to 'quell the terrorists' (citizens that don't subscribe the government installed by the coupe) - bunch of em get to the rebels and promptly change sides'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'armies are awesome'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'right. citizens'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, citizens. Thanks Obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're lucky and behave yourself Dagnir, USA and Russia can come and conspire to fuck up your country, too'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'we're american lapdogs just like you'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'better than being russian lapdogs'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFBOda6YJpI'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm nobody's lapdog'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a serf instead'
T3/r7/2014-04-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'MIT is proposing we build Fukushimas 5-7 miles out to sea to avoid earthquakes and tsunamis.  No mention of hurricanes, though.'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'should i move to las vegas, henderson, santa fe, ananndale, moscow, or tampa?'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh or seattle near aurora '
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Moscow'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Moscow is the least communist/authoritarian of those options'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'never advise a westerner to relocate to Russia'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not? You should love it, having been a communist plant in the republican party, and now a communist plant in socialist circles'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, "comrade" Tigernuts speaks from experience.  Tigernuts is currently also a "plant" as a Libertarian'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, a pot plant'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least i hold positions on things that are self-consistent'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some douchebag-in-a-suit didn't do some paperwork or phonecall 13 years ago and SWAT ends up kicking down this man's door for it. http://news.yahoo.com/armed-robber-never-told-report-prison-195146743.html'
T3/r7/2014-04-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'this is not a new story'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strazor: 'What' wrong with Lua?  Go.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strazor: 'What's*'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The code isn't pretty. At least not the code I have seen.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Looks like someone tried to combine visual basic with ruby '
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Both of which also are ugly, btw. Imo.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'slightly ambiguous peace deal agreed in Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Socialist party in the UK hires Obama poll guru Axelrod'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't look like the 'rebels' in the east of Ukraine are buying it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'first hit!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Harry Reid is going around calling ranchers terrorists'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is odd for a guy who his abusing his position to put his own son in charge of a plot to sell of Nevada public land to Chinese solar power companies and put it beyond use for the people who actually own it (the Nevada public)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'good for him!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being involved in organised crime seems to part of the description for politicians'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, when you get caught, it used to be policy to at that point stop, be contrite, and shut up'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(not as Harry Reid is doing, trying to play the victim card)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'amazing! it's almost as if there's a word for someone who threatens the safety of civil certains carrying out ourt mandated orders! (it's not as though that someone has been using YOUR (public) land for his own profits for DECADES without paying his dues, and the courts have told him he needs to! Oh, wait, yes it is)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK they throw politicans in jail for fiddling $15,000 on their expenses, you guys seem to be OK over deals worth millions of dollars'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'certains = servants, lol.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need to do some fact checking, Sunsoar, a court has not ordered that, and a court did not order the feds to bring in snipers to beat people up, threaten them, and destroy property'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, a court found the BLM at fault previously, being complicit in land grab cases'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'seriously, you're too easy, troll elsewhere.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/04/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-long-fight-between-cliven-bundy-and-the-federal-government/'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '1998: A federal judge issues a permanent injunction against Bundy, ordering him to remove his cattle from the federal lands. He lost an appeal to the San Francisco 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. He represented himself.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'buh-bye.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.scribd.com/doc/144609491/United-States-v-Estate-of-Hage-No-2-07-cv-01154-RCJ-VCF-Findings-of-Fact-Conclusions-of-Law-and-Injunction-D-Nev-May-24-2013'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't understand why the feds are getting involved, they don't own the land'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'what does that one have to do with bundy/ and, yeah, it's PRECISELY that thwy own the land.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The feds are prevent by law from owning that land'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has everything to do with bundy, it's part of a program to push ranchers off the land that's been going on for years'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did the same thing in the UK with public commons decades ago'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, seriously, cite what law, IT'S FEDERAL LAND.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Feds are prevent by your constitution from owning that land'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'He's grazing his cattle on public land!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'WHAT?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your claiming the federal government can't own... federal... or ANY land?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not -any-'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'eminent domain, THEY CAN TAKE ANY LAND ANY TIme.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'they don't even need to here.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, in case you're not aware, all that happened was that the permit rules changed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and bundy refused to pay the new fees.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's perfectly entitled not to pay the new fees'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though legally he shouldn't have paid any fees'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"The court ruled that the land on which Bundy was grazing his cattle was indeed owned by the federal government, that he had not been paying to use it as he should have been, that Bundy and his cattle were trespassing, and that the government had the right to enforce the injunctions against trespass. The court found that Bundy repeatedly violated the court orders and continued to have his cattle trespass"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the moment his family started paying fees he put himself in a legal grey area'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but, I've seen your throwing a bunch of troll bait out, have fun with that, I just knew the details of this one.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm glad you see an argument over land fees is justification for sending armed goons in to beat up women and children'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"Rangelands are distinguished from pasture lands because they grow primarily native vegetation, rather than plants established by humans. In 1848, the United States purchased a large expanse of land in the south-western region of the United States from Mexico, known as the Mexican Cession.[7][8] Nevada and the Bunkerville range are part of that land. Since then, the United States government has continuously owned the land in Nevada, which became a state in 1864.[7][8] Federal rangelands in Nevada are managed principally by either Bureau of Land Management or United States Forest Service. Ranchers may lease or get permits to use portions of this public rangeland and pay a fee based on the number and type of livestock and the period for which they are on the land"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"Grazing was never established as a legal right in the US,[11] and the Taylor Grazing Act authorized only the permitted use of lands designated as available for livestock grazing while specifying that grazing permits "convey no right, title, or interest" to such lands.[12]"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'right, citations please.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm confused, someone trespasses on state land and gets forced off it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you mean... have to retreat public servants carrying out lawful orders because a guy owing OVER A MILLION in fees decided to get armed people to harass them.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's the problem?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you suggesting that the public servants were not armed, that the ranchers were, and it was the ranchers that escalated it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's selective rewriting of history, you realise'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'right?debate "After repeatedly charging and screaming at local law enforcement officers, Bundy's sister was taken to the ground by a law enforcement officer.[31]"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you mean that?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you know charging at cops?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'try it some time, see how it goes.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she was not, and there is video of it, again selective rewriting of history'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does that mean if a cop gets in your face, you can charge them from behind and taken them to the ground?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they decide to put your car tax up from $200 a year to $4000 a year, should everyone pay up, or should they protest?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'not all the federal personel (especially the ones doing the rounding) would armed, even then, that's their job, and they have a court order to do so, so threatening their lives if they do by calling for armed resistance...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'there's a word for that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the bundy's didn't call for armed resistance'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor did they call for people to come armed'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's nothing like that jump, and he could have moved his catle off the land, insted he snubbed the law!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the feds could have put a lien on his property and taken the money from his estate when he died'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'basically it's some sort of anarchy'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where they're saying we're pissed off and unhappy about the law'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's the end of it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'legally speaking they have no right to the land'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they're also saying Harry Reid is a corrupt son of a bitch, and they're right'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'possible'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't know anything other than what i just read :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so US's rule of law is no better than china? :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like the coal industry, redryn, they deliberately used regulation to force people out of business'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'obviously, because the solution is to appease anyone who snubs their nose at federal court rulings.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea US's political system is screwed up'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sunsoar'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, that was sarcasm.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the issue is a bit different from that'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's a whole area of legal theory on this'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and a debate that's been going on for centuries about positivism vs natural law :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're going to shoot a rancher and destroy his property because of owed contested fees, yet you are happy to let bankers walk away with 100s of million of dollars in fraud?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suggests a smattering of hypocrisy to me'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, the issue is simple, and he's lost in every posible way, all of them a stretch because he, I assumes, like the government protecting the borders, but doesn't like paying for things.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and i suppose a moral question, of what a person should do if the law seems unjust'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'heh, fool, point me to where I agreed on anything re bankers? What a troll.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'are you saying one must always follow the law sunsoar? :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'seriously, you just strawmanned the fuck out of me, gtfo.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're putting it in context'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and then had the gall to call me a hypocrite for your strawman.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the French Revolution supplied a course of action -- Sunsoar's head 'd roll though'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the FEDS are the hypocrites, not you. jesus christ, not only highly strung but also can't read it seems'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'tigernuts, no, you just made assertions about my position re:banksters... and then insulted mefor them.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'pure, utter, troll.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've decided that anyone you disagree with is a troll, rigghhht'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'geez can't we go back to arguing about legal theory :('
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'don't use the royal you?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i have an exam on that next week'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'could use the revision!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'the wiki entry and the post page cover AL the ways he lost, and he tried every possible stretch.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but... conveiniently always stopped when he'd be the one to benefit most.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, the logical conclusion to most of his arguments... is indians own the land, not him.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better give it back to the indians, then'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I'd be good with that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Irish Republican Army" - another alternative  to the "law"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he's probably running the indian land argument because it's really difficult to try and claim a proprietary interest'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, IRA, thanks for that, AMerica'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's a last resort argument :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, he's not running the indian land argument.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he's running an argument that SHOULD lead to that.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but stops at him.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'charming chap.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'regardless'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's clear that there are a lot who support him who believe that the federal laws are unjust'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what should you do in such a situation?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you run your legal arguments but they all fail'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "law" is not "sacrosanct"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do you stfu and go away quietly, or do you escalate things?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with that, Redryn, I agree that the actions taken by the Federal Government are wholly inapproprite and over the top'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, incidentally, no, not all laws are moral or fair... but most people aren't rich and powerful enough to ignore them without consequence... and this one isn't particularly egregious. Other ranchers have paid and thrived fine, the fees aren't unfair.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'teh BLM are a bunch of crooks using trumped up environmental issues to try and justify their land 'grabs''
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it could have been handled much better from both sides'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'folk often obey the law out of convenience or laziness, but when the law is no longer convenient, some folk disregard the law'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'carrer criminals'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'assuming the law is right out bad (i don't know the details), ie expropriation'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you pay property taxes? Just stop, because you think they're unfair.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'career criminals'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'go on.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what should you do?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'see how it goes.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'property taxes are fundamentally unfair'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't necessarily not pay them'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'this isn't some human injustice, this is a rich guy wanting a free ride.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's not even his land, the government wantd to change what they charge for him to use their land.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find he's not rich, you'll probably find the fees will bankrupt him'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's old and probably believes he has nothing to lose'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he can find (FREE MARKET!) someone else to provide him land for less.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'this has gone on 20 years.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he wasn't that old when he first started violating the law.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'how come he has so many supporters if he's just out for a free ride'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'libertarians, succesionists, why are there crazy people?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they hate the crazy fascist scumbags that rip everyone off?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'so a bunch of crazy armed supported who threaten officials operating in legal capcity... makes you, right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'life isn't black and white, and morality differs at an individual level'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i wouldn't say they are wrong, nor would i say they are right'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the  "government" wanted to change the fees, or perhaps some "corrupt rich crooks" bribing and influencing the government wanted to change the fees '
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where would you draw the line of what's right and wrong?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yeah! rip everyone off! Border defense, Wildfire management, power, utilities, police and courts for rustlers! THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOTHING FOR HIM. Oh, wait.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'Also, not his land.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decisions by the "government" are by individuals, and those individuals may or may not be "crooked"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, because governments never do anything wrong, they always make the right decisions, they ALWAYS have your best interests at heart'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as long as EVERYONE is getting screwed over, it's ok, right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so a valid debate is: where the fee changes justified bu genuine economics or a dirty-underhanded trick by "crooked carpetbaggers" seeking to steal by manipulating (bribable) individuals within the government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, they're not faultless, I mean, thoe WMD's, they will find them any day now, for example... but that's why 3 branches... and if your response to that not working out for you is armed opposition, rather than protest and enacting change at the legislative level? You might be the one in the wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that argument makes any different to SUnsoar, Zade, he believes that if the feds tell you to stick your head in a blender you should do so'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't -have- 3 brnaches'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'protest and enacting change at the legislative level?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'ocupy didn't like th wall street stuff... want to tell me how tht would have gone down if they'd gone into the bank with guns?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'in US?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'hahaha'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so a valid debate is: were the fee-changes justified by genuine economics, or were the fee-changes a dirty-underhanded trick by "crooked carpetbaggers" seeking to steal by manipulating (bribable) individuals within the government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that might work if US was a democracy'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democracy is overrated, redryn'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you're hving a different argument, and applying your position to almost any fcet of life would end... poorly... for you, why is Bundy special?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'check out http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2014/04/16/The-US-is-not-a-democracy-but-an-oligarchy-study-concludes/2761397680051/'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'are you living a fantasy through him now?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'admittedly this whole thing is an artifact of the way that small part of the USA still exists'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"democracy" is not a magic "trump" card'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm just interested here in the legal debate'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't really care about who bundy is'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were always going to end up having conflicts between those who want to claim land for faux-environmental (see corporate) reasons and those who have/are using it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Ed and Peg Bundy turned into ranchers'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happens if they decide they want to extend rural land off bounds to people for the sake of the planet and shove property taxes way up'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'have you guys seen the ted talk that the conversation efforts are all terribly misguided?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'zones that are marked for conservation and protected from grazers all turn into deserts'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i normally treat TED talks with the same kind of arms-length treatment as you would religious speeches'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it seems to have some proof via studies'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Redryn, they recently 'flooded' several thousand acres of prime agricultural land near me to provide wildlife habitat, saying bollocks to the fact that we don't have sufficient food for our population and have to fly stuff in at great cost to the environment'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the argument they make is that by not allowing animals through the areas, plants overgrow, and this allows moss to grow in certain seasons, which kills the soils and subsequently kills the plants'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'raising property taxes is how the rich steal land from the poor that resided on that land for generations'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'happened in Mexico'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'happened in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they used different regulatory instruments in the UK to dispossess smallholders, but it still happened'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I'm sure they have a control area, or scientific studies, and aren't jut engaging in wild speculation. But what gets me is... you're assuming crooked where dumb will do. faux corportist takeover (damn those solar companies trying to make money while providing a service better for hte planet!)... WHAT? So, we pretend there's this turtle that needs saving, right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'then we charge fees for the use of the area to fund that...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but what we're really doing is stealing the land for corporation use.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'wait...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's the governments land to begin with.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the people's land'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'we could just lease it to the corps!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"We the people"... ring any bells?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'to form a more perfect union?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you think that ment they were going to have great sex?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no it meant they were forming a government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'entrusted with many aspects of the people.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'like the land.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and now overstepping it's powers on nearly every front'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we the people ... establish this constitution? :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'what... to own and manage the land of the country? who do YOU think should?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'sarcasm is a bad technique - there is no sarcasm in a viscious debate - whatever you say shall be used as evidence against you youy put your foot in your mouth attempting sarcasm, you are discredited'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did the people of nevada get a say whether their public land got sold off to China?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'was it state land?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'wait can states even own land? or just manage it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do the people of Nevada whose land is to be sold off to this Chinese solar farm get a sovereign wealth fund set up, being paid into by this company for the benefit of those people whose land is now off limits?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's not fucking sold to china you moron.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'leased, to a chinese company, at best.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'this is new, china is buying US land? :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and the poeople of Nevada get what every citizen does, all the functions of government.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and US is selling land to them? i'd be amazed'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, it's just his cognitivie dissonance not allowing reality into hwo he sees the situation.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because if it was all hum drum... he couldn't live out his fantasy through bundy.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you do realise if the land belonged to China they could build a militar base there and US couldn't do shit about it right? :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'plenty of land in plenty of states is leased to foreign corporations.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'other than declare war'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'makes money for stuff, yay!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'chinese solar panels on USa land - that does no seem environmentally friendly to the land if the land goes to rot'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'none of those other staes gets specific earmarked funds from those leases.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.clarkcountynv.gov/News/Pages/CommissionersCleartheWayforNewJobs,SolarProject.aspx'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was sold, not leased'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'to a corporation. not a government, the u.s. government can eminent domain it back any time, and they'll pay both rates and taxes on it, all ammounts to a leasing. The people haven't lost the land.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which politicians sold the USa land to the chinese for a pittance'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty twisted way to look at it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"It's ok, we can always steal it back later"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the argument is that it was significantly undervalued'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe that's what the indians believed when whiteman bought land for $24 in baubles'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's a big difference between selling land to a corporate entity vs selling land to a country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'just be mindful of what that means :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless the chinese company is owned by members of the government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'state owned is state owned'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'like i said'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if the land belonged to the people's republic of china'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they could build a military base there'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'unless your issue is wit hteh ideology of the owners... which it didn't appear to be when saying "sold off to China", Redryn is right, and basically what I aid before.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'think "lease hong kong" as to another government.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and US couldn't say anything about it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'also they would have to put in immigration controls at the border'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'COMPLETELY different to selling it to a sovereign nation'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and utterly undermines the concerns and hysteria which follow form them that you have.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to some extent it depends on the tax arrangements. In the UK we have big issues with government giving contracts to foreign companies who then proceed to pay no tax'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems as though the government is corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you know that domestic companies do that too, right? Like double dutch with a side of Irish?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what you're complaining about is investment agreements'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that it's a chinese company makes no difference there.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'china corporation agrees to build x stuff in your country and you give them y concessions'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's nothing neww'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're right, Sunsoar, the fact that it's a company is the issue.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'have you not seen US companies build stuff in other countries?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's done all over the world'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'especially by oil companies'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure, and they screw people over all the time - doesn't make it right'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at what BP did to Alaska ref. Exxon Valdiz'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a company, foreign or domestic, wants to start up here, buys land commerically, operates under the law and pays taxes, all fine'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea, so the problem there is a country selling drilling rights to a company which wrecks havoc on their environment'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you think the chinese company isn't incorporated in US?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'd be surprised'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the bundy case it was not land bought commerically and there were dirty political handprints all over it. Much like the chinese nuke reactor going up in the UK which UK PLC has agreed stupidly high subsidies for'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i suspect you have no clue at all about investment law'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not talking about where things are incorporated'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because governments are bad, and foreign corporations are bad... and banks are bad... I'm guessing tigernuts only loves U.S corporations? If that is the case, I wonder what he thinks about the U.S. Banana companies actions in central america...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it goes, i'm suspicious of all corporations'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so you're complaining the government is full of shitty negotiators? :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i wouldn't be surprised'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm complaining that the government is full of shit. Trim off the "ty negotiatiors"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'solar panels built on ranching and farming lands seems like an act of destruction -- build the solar panels in the cities ans suburbs om the rooftops '
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Strr: 'do U.S. Banana companies sell bananas?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so what do you think the solution is?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Strr, bananas are a sacred animal'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get a grip on government and shrink it's size, redryn. Vastly simplify tax law'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'build th solar panels in the desserts and the dustbowls and on arid land'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move power for internal affairs down to state (country for UK) level, leave country level government for dealing with defence and intercountry trade'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the chinese covert those solar panel lands into dustbowls, perhaps that is an act of war'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there is a problem with breaking down the country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's the loss of power'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course there is problems breaking down the country, there are also benefits'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's even more staggeringly inefficient than he believes government is now.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'people got together to form large countries with big governments because larger groups are more powerful'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'also, guessing republican... all those red states getting more in federal $ than they pay... will hurt, a lot.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you argue that smaller states will be more efficient'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i suspect they will be crushed by corporations'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not more efficient, more representative of the people in them'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'possible'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'cant represent when you haven o power.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but how would they handle a situation here'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the threshold of effort needed to resolve corruption is also lower'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'say a bigass corporation comes in'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and says hey wanna let us build here? we want x taxes and we'll create y jobs'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'your people kick up a big fuss and say no u!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the corporation says ok, let me go next door'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'aI'm going to jump ahead, and say this is in a state whose river goes into another states... provides all their water.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you then wave and let them go'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'GL downstream!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some state is eventually going to do the game theory way and say hey we'll take you'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'downstream state can't do shit.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some state is going to have lower taxes on corporations'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and you know what happens?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the states that don't are going to have no revenue'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no one will want to work there and all the people will leave to where there are jobs'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and boom, your small state dies.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'people flock to a select few states'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and very soon the cycle repeats'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where you have one huge oversized state'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's no simple solution to this.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was about to say that's an oversimplification'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it is'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'lots more things can happen'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but historically that's what import controls are for'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'globalization has killed that'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the world has changed'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalisation has killed pretty much everything'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you don't take months to travel by ship between countries'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all we got in return is fucking facebook'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and poverty'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'a huge income disparity :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some people are having a really good life!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, those ripoff merchants mentioned some time ago'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but regardless'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm just saying your small state idea doesn't sound very feasible'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no bargaining power'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you're phrasing it in terms of trade when one of the purposes of your federal government was to govern trade between states and between the US and foreign countries'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts likes the anarchies incompetencies and whimsies of municipal governments -- (or maybe a group of Tigernuts is waiting to hive in a secluded municipality)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you're saying let states manage their own taxes no?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'let states manage their own affairs'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as pragmatically possible, yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's where the bargaining comes in'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'whatever power is given to states'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is what they will use to court economic investment'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'be it tax laws, land prices, whatever'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'at the end the states will compete against each other'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do now'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such competition will ultimately end in some form of status quo'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'isn't that part of the problem?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rate bargaining is part of the problem, you shouldn' tbe able to bargain lower rates just because you're a big corporation'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'why do the governments agree then/'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't go to my council and say "i'll pay you only 20% of the current property tax rate or i'll go move away"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you can't do it cos you're a nobody :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and they don't care if you're there'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ask your federal government, they shouldn't allow states to give special treatment'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they want these corporations to come in'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to give corporation A preferential rates, you should give smalltown shop B the same rate'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it doesn't matter if it was the federal government or the small state deciding the rates'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'except the state doesn't care if smalltown shop B moves away, because it doesn't 'create enough jobs''
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'both will give preferential rates'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but the large corporations are the drivers of our economy, they are the wealth creators, we are really lucky to have them at all. I think that they should be able to do anything that they want'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's just the point, Majic, it shouldn't matter - if states weren't permitted to do this, then you wouldn't get corporations shopping around playing states off against each other'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the corporations will just play nations off each other'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that was either brilliant satire, or terribly depressing.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's how the world works'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they would have to make their decision based on the facts on the ground'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'look up investment agreements'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there are tons of them in every country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's dinner time. put a stop to it!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'as redryn said, they'd play the smaller nations off each other instead'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, what we should really do is abolish tax, and then the nation state, and we'd live in a perfect free market'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's when you get your trade controls out'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'check out bilateral investment treaties'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'good chance you can't'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's basically all about governments agreeing hey, if my corporations can get cool rates in your country i'll let yours get good ones in mine'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's no coincidence that they investment treaties are written by corporations, much like the transatlantic one being written that will allow corporations to bypass national law'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so nothing you have proposed will change this :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you got rid of the investment treaties it would'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you got rid of investment treaties your country will be irrelevant'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrelevent or bankrupt are your two choices then'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you can be north korea i guess'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they don't have many investment treaties!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'close off your country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'stop the trade!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'china did that for a long time, see what happened to them'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying then, just to make this absolutely clear is "it's the way it is, nothing can change, you just have to accept that corporations will take over the world and you will just be a resource to them"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm saying your suggestions are not a solution :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then what is?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but if you have better ones i'd be interested to hear!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't know'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'pts'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'oops'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's a problem faced by governments too'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would solve some of the democratic deficit we currently have, even if it doesn't solve global trade'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would solve some of the issues we have with regards to creeping police state'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's always easier to criticise than to come up with solutions'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as you're finding out, no doubt :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were up to me, here in the UK, i'd start by reforming personal taxation and law, tackle the corporate side later'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so many issues are deeply political'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what would you do about taxation?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'raise them?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scrap council tax and national insurance, scrap the tax-free allowance, in fact, scrap pretty much all personal taxation other than a simple income tax, a sales tax, and duty on certain things for ring-fenced purposes'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'investment treaties are "protectionist" and even indirectly anti-free-trade (even though some trade is subsidised, those without those treates are disadvantaged, hence anti-free-trade)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while i like the idea of a flat tax rate, it's not pragmatic in a country with >100% GDP to debt ratio, huge deficit, and large trade deficit'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'scrapping taxes means raising others'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm not familiar with uk taxes so i guess i can't comment though'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the first $15k here is tax free, i'd end that - it'd make up most of the other changes'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it would'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the income tax on the poor generate pretty negligible amounts'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't targetting the poor'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i've seen the numbers locally, it just doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the idea would be that it'd be roughly tax neutral, anyway'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but, screw them anyway, right'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I am not convinced Redryn -- income tax on the poor contributes most of the tax, cause the richer you are the less you pay'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts 'd tax crumbs from a starving family'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the richer pay the most tax generally'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i assume uk has some progressive tax system'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'poor pay a lot to state.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: '15k 0%, next 10k 5% etc'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it just moves from a situation where you're taxed regardless toa  system that is based on your ability to pay'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some of our taxes are progress, some not'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic boggles at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich extorted most of their money'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our property tax is fixed'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'this 15k is income tax no?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our sales tax is flat but doesn't apply to everything'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'rich have a lot more tax loopholes available'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'current rates are 0% 0-10k, 20% 10k-45k, 40% 45k-150k 45% 150k+'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so which taxes are you proposing to raise?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is also a tax on employment, 9% paid by the employee, about the same or something paid by the employer'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scrap the 0%'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so instead of 0% 0-10k have it 5% or something?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20%'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'pretty damn harsh on someone who makes 20k'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that will never work'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'this one is simple, and you're nowhere near as clever as you think. Just design a tax system. That's all you have to do.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise that the property tax is paid regardless of your income'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, wait, forgot one bit.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you'r not born, and don't know how your life will play out.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'design one now.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you pass that law, and your party will never be elected ever again'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'oh, and the next party will repeal that law'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'immediately'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'hint: it isn't this libertarin fantasy you're spouting.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because people are pretty dumb, redryn'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i guarantee it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems clueless as to effective government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'too bad we're not in a utopia of super enlightened people i guess'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but your proposal would obviously never work'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obviously?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'see above'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you will be kicked out of office and your changes repealed'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's your tax bill, Redryn for 2014: 2000 in property tax, 6000 in income tax - total: 8000'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yeah, obviously, it would drive those in the lower-income brackets who already own no property to pay taxes on into an even more crushing poverty, unless you are planning on raising benefits for those of low income to compensate, which somehow i doubt'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's your tax bill, REdryn for 2015: Property tax: 0, income tax: 8000 - total: 8000'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is higher?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if that's the tax bill i'm getting, then your country is now running a huge deficit'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because in essence you scrapped taxes without fully replacing them'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'except the income tax would be higher because you're not getting the deduction on the first 15k -- you'd pay 20% of that, which is 3000'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'oh noes majic'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'don't make him tweak his magic numbers'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not magic numbers, they're illustrative'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he'll now tell you your property tax was 3000'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'doesn't mean anything, if you own 0 property all you will see is your income tax going up AND your benefits being cut'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you homeless, majic?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I do like how most conservative/libertarian tax systems... apart from assuming the U.S. is currently sitting on the side of the laffer curve where lowering taxes is tbe best way to generate revenue... would be soul crushing to those already the weakest... do they imagine they're that close to the top that they'll be fine?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do you pay property tax on rented property?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you pay property tax here regardless of whether you rent'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nope, I live in an apartment that I rent'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you'd pay property tax here'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'do you pay property tax on council flats?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you live in a property, you pay property tax'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, then, I do agree that that's stupid, but I don't think that taxing under 15k is the answer.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do companies pay property tax?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's kinda the point, it's not based on your income or your ability to pay. It does scale by the value of the property a little, but everyone pays'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's like... let's lower taxes on the rich, and pay for that by increasing them on the poor!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a different version, redryn, but yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if i own a factory am i paying property tax on that land?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like i said, Sunsoar, it's tax neutral'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok so now you're scrapping that property tax?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a different tax and i said i'd consider personal and corporate taxation differently'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok so say i'm a rich guy'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and i own 5 houses'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but in answer to your question, probably not'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i stop paying tax on them?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are they sitting empty?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sure, my holiday home'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then yes, you do'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'cool, and now i just pay 3k income tax more?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'totally support it yo'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'pass that tax bill to the poor'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're getting a substantial tax cut, they'd vote for it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look up "Poll tax riots"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'well i'd agree with removing any flat taxes'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'as you describe it property taxes sound like a flat tax'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'more or less'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Redryn.
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fixed tax, not flat rate'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'only the poor who own property would be... oh, wait...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flat tax and flat rate are easily confusable'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was already mentioned that you pay the fixed property tax here regardless of whether you're an owner or renter, sunsoar'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyhew, dinnertime'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and how does this aply to the U.S then, or are you talking one world tax rate?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he's from the UK'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he's just talking about his own country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I just got a hole in my new NFC cash card -- good idea or bad, discuss.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'cut -- cut a hole'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what an NFC cash card is'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'NFC = Near field communication.  It's a debit card that you can just tap on debit machines to process payments.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: '...*beep*'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '*ping*'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, cut a hole in it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'burn it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a form of rfid...whether or not the hole changes anything would depend on where the hole is compared to the electronics'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'ever had a card peel?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you're concerned about information leakage, better to encase it in a shielding technology'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'yes cards can peel'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'and underneath the top layers... you see the actual chip where the information is actually stored'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'iirc'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just destroy it and use cash'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'screw cash, I get bonuses from the cards...they can track me all they want as long as I get extra free stuff :P'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more shit for your free shit collection, eh?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spend enough and they'll give you some WORTHLESS shit!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not worthless shit...they give me cash or credit for the places I spend already'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no free lunch'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless they're giving you one as a perk :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so they say...but there IS free lunch FOR ME'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a rule of thumb, here at least, such 'rewards' cards are a con. They at best partially-reward people for their laziness. As a rule of thumb you can save money by shopping elsewhere, without the points'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not talking about a store's shopper program, I'm talking about paying with my credit card at the same store I'd be paying cash to'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, they have those here too, typically much higher rates'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so for spending the same $50 in gas that I'd have to spend anyway, I can have to walk into the gas station to pay and be out exactly $50, or I can never go more than 2 feet from the car, not have to wait in a line, and get a $5 refund...extrapolate that to my monthly expenses and it's a significant amount, for no cost other than someone knowing that I spend $xxx/month on gas'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't pay interest. at all.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all of my utilities/etc are paid using the credit cards, and all of the credit cards are paid in full each month'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i've always though credit cards are just to encourage consumers to buy and spend more. like discounts.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the schlubs who don't pay in full every month are paying for my free lunch...and I'm perfectly fine with that :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the main card doing that here are american express, they have a much smaller spread of shops that accept them because the shop has to pay much higher fees to process them'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some banks offer similar through special accounts that you have to pay a certain amount into each month, or have a monthly fee'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I have a spread of visa, mc, amex and disc...all of which have either cash back or points'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll stick to the simple option :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I find it simpler to not have to keep tapping Mac to have cash on me for everything, and be able to get through lines quicker or avoid them altogether'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'mac?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"tap mac" is a term for hitting up an ATM'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't ever have problems with lines'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: ''tap mac', wow... what country is that'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'before everything was as well-networked as it is today, MAC was the biggest ATM network (in the US at least)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there was PLUS, MAC, STAR, etc which all had logos on your bank cards'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cash is still the best way to pay for labour :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tap%20mac'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to be confused with tapping sack'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a reasonable question to ask: Would it be more effective for 'protecting the environment' to base import duties on the 'dirtiness' of the country of origin than to arbitrarily impoverish and/or restrict the freedoms of the poor in your own country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, hard to load a question more than that :P'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'load that sucker up!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reasoning is this. If you're a small European country, it doesn't matter how much you 'clean up' your country if China, India, and the US are happily ruining the planet. So why not penalise them rather than your own people?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'because you can't really be self-sufficient, and trying to penalize them by not importing quite probably hurts your people more than it helps them in the short-to-moderate-term'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reasoning is that by making imports from china more expensive, you make it more attractive to import from other countries'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it does hurt your own people to an extent, but then so does other action attributed to climate change'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it hurts your own people without a benefit...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not fair - if a small percentage of imported goods switch to coming from a country (possibly even home grown) with a cleaner record, then you have had a net positive impact'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or, if these items are more expensive and people simply don't buy them, then you have also had a net positive impact'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the only impact you have is that your people are paying more for everything than the rest of the world'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people not being able to afford buying things isn't a net positive impact'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is exactly what they did with the 'fuel duty escalator' here, and with the switch to 'green' electric'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'talk about a spin doctor'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'why don't countries do that then?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of the corporate investment agreements Redryn was talking about earlier, Bob'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments want a cleaner planet, provided it's the little people that suffer to make it so'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'the purpose of those is that they're not particularly fungible purchases... so making the green option competitive, even if it costs more all around, leads directly to green.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not competitive, nor can it ever be'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'china isn't going to change their ways becuse a small country sets their tarrifs higher.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'now, if a bunch of big ones did that... but that's not going to happen, becaise it would apply to them too.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typically you would look to get a group of countries doing the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'are you seriously telling me solar, or other green energy can NEVER be competitive? Go look up the price today for 1Mw from solar, as compared 1980. I'll wait.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, and I'm guessing you don't know how heavily oil is subsidized.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are not the solution, sunsoar, sun doesn't shine 24/7, wind doesn't blow'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'batteries don't exist.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh god damn you're daft.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK invested billions in extremely expensive offshore wind, it has to be backed up by gas'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and batteries are so incredibly environmentally friendly, and efficient'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course being a physicist you know this'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd also know that most hybrids don't even break even in their lifetime in terms of emissions saving because of the battery manufacturing process'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'better than the alternative. And not in the air.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, not better than the alternative, not even remotely true'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'geothermal, hydroelectric. THOSE are useful renewable resources'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kobus: 'well fracking and offshore drilling have been working out really well, just have to poison the entire ecosystem to get them :('
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't support either, kobus'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'citation please. Because compared to fracking, I'll take a little ground polution... to ground air and water.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how does hydroelectric and geothermal pollute ground air and water?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I mean solar/wind + batteries.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that problem is solved.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's solar/wind + batteries, it's solar/wind + gas'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'don't pretend like it's not.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'NO! that's "not enough capicity no matter what"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because not enough investment!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go look up the process for extracting and refining lithium'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'not "because can't figure out how to supply at night"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'solar and wind both have their place, but they're not the answer'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're both useful in decentralising energy production which is also extremely important'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'they're the furthest along, and don't require natural features.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'they're the furthest along, and don't require natural features.debate GLHF for countries without large river systems or volcanic activity in your version!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are far better off having production close to where it's needed as transporting electricity is inefficient'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but... that's the point right, kill them as good being the enemy of the perfect... and, gas wins.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gas is already winning because some fuckwit didn't build any new power production here in the last 30 years'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i live on a dirty great big island, there's vast scope for tidal and hydroelectric and they won't go near it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'well, maybe if Ray-gun had embraced solar insted of ripping the panels off the roof...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'the world might have followed the lead.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise he's been dead a long time and out of power longer...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you realise you just bitched about something over the last 30 years.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, because the whole 30 year period is relevent, not something that happened before that'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'raygun was in office 30 year ago you utter troll.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, are you saying that reagan has been preventing US development of solar power for the last 30 years?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you just being deliberately stupid?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you just said "something before that" and, I said he set back its deployment, yes! and increased oils hold, double whammy!'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because in the UK successive governments OVER the last 30 years have not built new capacity'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I even suggested his example might have been followed elsewhere.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were british, you'd be one of those people that blames Margaret Thatcher for everything'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'name one good thing? for raygun, either. Fiscal conservatives, screw the poor, both blew up deficits, retarded the development of alternate energies, demonized minorities.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yeah, both pretty shite.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wasn't around in the USA during Reagan's time. I do recall one very good sound bite often attributed to him, which was The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, it does appear your presidents have been mostly god-awful since Eisenhower'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'utter phoey. Or, let me rephrase to any American patriot. Imagine a founding father is saying that, and still say you'd be upset.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could imagine a founding father saying that'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were all about the need to keep government under a firm leash, what makes you think the two are inconsistent?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'I also assume, immediately, that anyone who touts that is a whit middleclass chickenhawk who lets poorer families sons fight wars.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, you know, national defense "helps"... so did ending slavery, I do like the fire department.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, you managed to be racist and classist all in one sentence'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'London, 1666... didn't, so much, when it was private.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so now Reagan is to blame for the Great Fire of London?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no you moron. Pure free market idealogues who can't dmit government has any purpose.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you'd been paying attention, you'll have seen people talking about the role of government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and have not read more than one sentence of Smith.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yo're the one who just dropped th ridiculous canard of government being here to help being bad.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'also, screw my keyboard atm. Cleaning time.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think you'll find he was referring to the government for the most part being the least best placed to solve most problems'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a sentiment i agree with, however i also think government is best when it is localised'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'except... you'll find your "for the most part" to actually be stggeringly off the mark should you be able to pierce the veil of your cognitive dissonance.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'like, fire departments.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so centralised government is best placed to fight fires?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'in fact ANY utility where adding competing versions is stupid on its face (want 50 water mains running under each street? one for each company?)'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yep.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it's best placed to furnish districts with departments and ensure htey are coordinated and have a nationally recognised level of training.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well if i walk to my fire department i'll find it is a local fire department provided by the local council. the central government has nothing to do with it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'want to bet? their engine has to meet national codes.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and I bet you anything they received federal funding.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's considerably different to have a  single national fire fighter team'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with branches'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'or the training was federally funded or subsidzed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'or the training was federally funded or subsidzed.debate ultimtely not possible without a centrlied government though.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your poduck local fire branch would be utterly ineffective against a large fire.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'ALL of them would be.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'see, 1666.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's also a big difference between the central government saying "here's the code of practice and training. go set up a fire service" and central government parachuting it in and micromanaging it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'micromanagement by central authority is the reason why our schools are plummeting down the international rankings, and why our health service is on the verge of utter collapse'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that's not the argument, because my version of a fire department (one that works) isn't possible without it being under the auspices of a federal government. Yours... is irrelevent, because it doesn't work.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a role for government in all these things. micromanaging isn't it'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our fire service works just fine, thankyou'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think you'll find he was referring to the government for the most part being the least best placed to solve most problems'"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you've picked 1'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'if by solve you mean "the existing of the federal government being hte only thing that allowed the effective solution".'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure what that meant, but ok'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'national defense, police, pollution standards.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'water provision.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local governance is best suited to dealing with utilities'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'minority rights.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't an issue in a civilised country'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'rail and highway'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rail is irrelevent on an island, highways are best split between local and central'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'for FUCK sake, you realise, in America, a gay lover can be kicked out of the hospital room of their partner if the family doesn't approve? Yeah, it hasn't got their yet, but federal is the one way it will.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and you can also have your kid kicked out of school for pointing his finger and saying "Bang"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'but wouldn't it be fun if the guage were different? 50 DIFFERENT gauges?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, I really don't think the citizens of Arizona want water supply to hve no federal rules.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'California will OWN them.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a civilised country you'd have freedom of speech, too, but we can't have everything now, can we/'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"How do you tell a Communist? Well, its someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? Its someone who understands Marx and Lenin."'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, funnily enough... all your responses are "local government"... so, you're ok with "I'm from the (local) government and I'm here to help"?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends what you're there to help with'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your canards are... as wanting as they are stale.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more important, MOST importantly, did i -ask- for help?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you added no room for gradation in your initial assertion on governments usefulness.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can blame Reagan for that one, it was his quote'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'maybe that's the problem with tired generalities that people think are clever.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'you only repeated with approval.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'can't see my prolem there at all.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'judgemental as well as rude'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, know, what you're doing to facts, logic, and what your positions would mean for society are a rudeness that I could not come close to matching. Sorry if I reflect it a little bit in my digust.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '.*disgust'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and no. Ok, that one wasn't kb, it was >4am, so, out.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think you understand why my positions are, you just making some rather crude assumptions then throwing insults from your rather smelly ivory tower'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps i would like government to help, but not to dictate, does that help any?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'perhaps it doesn't dictate very nearly as much as you imagine, and where it does, it's for reasons you haven't comprehended... and your solutions to this mistaken problem would be terrible and or tragic... does that help?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'look up a series"how regulation came to be" on dailykos.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'talks about regulations that right wing people denounce the government for... that came about because of things like the triangle shirtwaist fire, or the radium girls.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and you'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and you'll be happy the government is there to help.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ahh, the old standy of the unions'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what was necessary 100 years ago must be good today'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's odd, because i am mostly against corruption, overtaxation, indentured servitude and the takeover of everything by corportations, which the governemnt is actively promoting, not helping'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because there's not rampant examples of it lately that haven't been addressed yet, and because we don't actually have proof that if protections are weakened, backslide WILL happen.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but because i'm against government spying on everyone, cops beating homeless people to death, and taxes screwing the poor but missing the rich, YOU think I want people eating radium and getting rid of fire departments'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a weird state of affairs'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'your tax solution would help, and would only hurt the poor, at least in the U.S. And in hte U.K. those rich enough to get their money without it being income would be the best off, so screw the middle class not poor.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/17/1187836/-How-regulation-came-to-be-The-Truman-Highway-Safety-Conferences'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'read the entire series, and tell me government can't be here to help.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and, yes, much of it applies today. it would just be different chemicals. or different shoddy construction.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not one person has said anything near what you're staunchly defending, so it'd help if you'd be less ignorant in your assessment...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yes, he did.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'he quoted Reagan approvingly regarding all government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'that includes the idealogy behind that quote, or it would have no meaning.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he quoted reagan.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'yes, he did.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he didn't quote reagan approvingly regarding all government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, just for shits and giggles then?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's a rather large difference between the two statements'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nothing for shits and giggles, you'd just have to have greater than a 3rd grade education to understand'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"Tigernuts: 'i wasn't around in the USA during Reagan's time. I do recall one very good sound bite often attributed to him, which was The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."'"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, he recalls a good sound byte.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"one very good soundbite", about a philosophy on the value of government.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'take it as a sound byte'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'so, it's a good soundbite'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it was, and it is'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and that soundbite expressed the position I'm attacking.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that particular sound byte just has nothing whatsoever to do with what you're claiming'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'so, he expressed and approved of the position I'm attacking.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'it has EVERYTHING to do with what I'm claiming.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'ok, you just keep repeting that to yourself like you're not looking like an idiot.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not once (within or outside that soundbyte) has there been anything even remotely claiming that "nothing by the government can ever be of help"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, one of us is looking like an idiot...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'Oh, give me another interpretation of what Reagan meant.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'because, if "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" being scary DOESN'T mean there's no way government could help...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he meant that there are some [many] government initiatives which were intended to help, and which have ended up being less than helpful to the intended recipients of said help'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is extremely different than "the government never helps"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'quite frankly, it could also make one nervous because one doesn't know whether it will help or not'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'welfare coming over "to help" and taking your kids away instead...not so much helping...scary thing'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'citation for that interpretation.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it has happened, it does happen, it will happen, that government's help can be a not-good thing...it also has hapepned, does happen, and will happen that government is positioned to help quite well'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're pretending that anyone here is claiming that the latter part never exists'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that's just utter horseshit'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, I'm requesting citation for the assertion that Reagan included that nuance.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'to state that it's categorically bad or categorically good is a false dichotomy'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you need to look up what a soundbyte is...reagan made a joke...it wasn't exactly reagan's position or policy, else he wouldn't have run for president'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'reagan wasn't stupid enough to think that he needed to cover every contingent interpretation of his joke...I guess he just didn't give idiots enough credit'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'oh, so, you can just say widely sweeping shit, with no nuance, that doesn't tck with reality... and then people quoting you get to pretend you had nuance, because the words on their own paint an ugly picture.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there was no nuance, because it was not a belief statement'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'anyone thinking it was a belief statement is moronic'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'and yeah, he could still have run, if he thinks government bad... why not try to get rid of as much as possible.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'no, seriously, it was a belief statement.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '"small enough to drown in a bathtub"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'running theme.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'running theme.debate sorry, that was norquist, a reaganite.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weren't you going to bed, man?'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, "I believe that centralized government should be limited" is entirely different than your stance that Tiger (and reagan) were stating that "government never helps, ever"'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Saudi Arabia are looking to build a 1km tall tower'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the first is also the stance of nearly every founding father...'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i subscribe to that, abe'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what Reagan said is more of a reaction to the effects of bad government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking as someone who has a bad government, i at least can sympathise with what he said'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently that makes something akin the Satan'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: '5am, I need to leave, but what I contend is that your definitions of limited would be devestating in reality, as when you get down to it, conservatives like spending too... just on different things.'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the US, if the federal government was limited to what powers were originally granted to it by the founding documents, you'd be about there'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is to say, there'd be nothing wrong with your system of government, provided it was run and maintained in the spirit in which it was formed'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's far harder to say for the UK which has mongrel government'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speculating that Sunsoar is from Singapore'
T3/r7/2014-04-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Did you know I'm written in C?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(barter) nopk'ers do lots of things: avoid the cuss on clantalk, avoid the pk hassle while leveling, avoid the clan muzzle, avoid clan politics, silently meditate on life's deeper ironies'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Are society's morals slowly being eroded?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'one thing i've never got was how inevitable it all seems, and i kept thinking, how did we get good moral standards in the first place?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no one has thoughts about this?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that know the answer are waiting to read what the trolls type'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Cunningham's law then.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not googling, maybe wikipedia later '
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are going to bandy obscure "laws" ..'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'don't know the answer, maybe people feel less connected to each other now, people used to joins social organizations and feel connected.  People often don't speed in their own neighborhood because they know people with kids will confront them,  if its more of a through street people will be more likely to speed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i guess that could be a contributing factor.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is perhaps the effect of (the loosely paraphrased) Gresham's Law to conjecture the difficulty of decent ethics to evolve (iffy though)'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so if people were more connected now would they be able to be more decent?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in economics and finance, "bad money drives out good money" - Gresham's Law'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'they would feel more pressure to do the right thing for society.  It seems it would depend on which ethical situation you are looking at.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not sure how that applies'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'could you elaborate?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so in a twisted paraphrase, "bad ethics discourages good ethics"'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yet, "eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty"'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'given the choice between laziness and hardwork, often they would choose the path of least resistance, it isn't undervalued at all.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm wondering how people grew to have better ethics, to care more about people.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"decent ethics" is able to evolve (from an evolutionary perspective), perhaps; -- an academic conjecture is whether there is a "benign influence" sufficiently able to effect decent rthics soonor than never'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'The Church was responsible of some of that, the code of chivalry I think was started by the church, and many abolitionists were Christian *puts earplugs in before the screaming starts*'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's a bit untrue. Buddhism, Islam (yes, old Islam) was also much about ethics.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the RC Church was responsible for the Dark ages and for spreading badness and ignorance  '
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not to mention crusades. the evolution of religions often makes it evil because of the interpretations of people.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yes evil evil ideas like charity towards the poor, though shall not steal.  evil evil things.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'we're not saying these ideas weren't professed, zade raused that Christianity brought quite a few woes of it's own.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there were armies moving across the world long before the crusades.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the RCC was an abomination -- if any "decency" evolved, likely was in spite of the Church, not because of; the Church was likely forced to be more decent by outside influences'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the crusades were a stupid ass task of peple marching across land and sea to die for a holy land that wasn't their's,both unprepared and ill informed, no one has ever done so consecutively in any other name.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I can't agree with that idea.  There have always been bad aspects about the church, but there have been many many good people in the church.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'again, the church brought good, but to attribute niceness to religion isn't the answer.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?" "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:22-23 is likely Jesus speaking against the christian churches and judaic synagogues'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'likely extremists.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in the end, the morality of religions are formed by the people who practice them, so why did these people have good ethics?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"cast out devils in thy name"  -- RCC did a lot of genocides and murders and exterminations and depravities etcetera (in the name of "god")'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and some protestant churches picked up from the RCC '
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'let's not get distracted from topic, religion is a pain in the neck to debate about.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'these were practiced by disillusioned people, they are no gauge of a religion's merits, or penalties, pretty much all religions went through this phase.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is doubt as to whether the "churches" are with "good ethics"'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'as i have stated, it's the people,so why were there people with good ethics, and what influenced people to take up bad ones?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how can people instill morals in the current society?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:16 "By their fruits you shall know them. ... " so the "practitioners" are a "gauge" of a "religion's merits"'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Matt 7:15 "Beware of false prophets (==teachers), who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'for a person who speaks about the evils of the church, you quote a lot of scripture.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or are you saying these aren't part of the original ideas?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'matt 7:19 "Every tree (church perhaps, and the corrupt flock) that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire." -- that loose paraphrase may be spot-on or maybe excessive or perhaps debatable'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'depends on your viewpoint, should those that practice corrupted faith be persecuted and killed? Or should these corrupted sects be denounced, not just in Christianity, but in all religions.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Malkar, you still there?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yikes, excessive extrapolation'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari raises an eyebrow.
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'matt 7:3 "And why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye"'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'seriously?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Malkar's left, there is seriously no need to expound on that point.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'left as in left the debate channel. Maybe we were too hard on him.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(debating religion is a decades intense hobby here).  (pleased to cast you into the lake of fire, but don't guess me name)  (you likely be wrong.)  ( no sympathy for the .... )  '
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's not a real debate if the guy leaves without arguing his case.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'we're off topic actually, but i'm loath to look up the topic again.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'G'night.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'US doctors have figured out how to make babies from our own cells for the purposes of transplants and gene therapy.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'not eve close to true'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'great. i need a new body for my awsom bbrain'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303626804579507593658361428?ru=yahoo?mod=yahoo_itp&mg=reno64-wsj&url=httpAFFonline.wsj.comFarticleFSB10001424052702303626804579507593658361428.htmlFruDyahooFmodDyahoo_itp'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'learn a little science you are combining a fantasy applucation with a discovery'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'it has zero to do with 'gene therapy''
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'looks sciency enough for me. where is that house where they do that?'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the science in the "Venture Bros" cartoon is mostly fiction'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we don't even have to remove humanity from the overall equation to see what a lack of humanity would bring.'
T3/r7/2014-04-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Chernobyl, Detroit, and many other sites both large and small (ranging down to individual homestead-sized sites) have almost fully reverted in a mere 20-40 years.'
T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'cellulosic biofuels (ie, corn leftovers) won't meet environmental standards set by a 2007 law in the US, making them 7% worse than petroleum with regards to global warming.'
T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the cost of gas is going to go up because we're using cleaner fuel...'
T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the cost of gas is going to go up because US oil companies are refining domestic oil and selling it in Europe instead of distributing it in the US.'
T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'kill the Koch Brothers - problem solved'
T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are the Koch brothers making corn oil?  Perhaps they are, but I would not think even rich, fat cat Democrats would be foolish enough to swallow massive fines instead of passing them on to the consumer.  That's just not good business.'
T3/r7/2014-04-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'http://sealevel.climatecentral.org/'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, Twitter has been out blocking Twitter accounts of dissidents exposing government corruption'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no freedom of speech in modern communication, it seems'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'no freedom of speech in the internet? really?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'well it was posted in well-known Twitter, they just want to protect themselves'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not surprising, i think it's a problem with people, not twitter'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'in what sense?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people believe that electronic communication is an extension of talking, and governments and the internet companies DO try and propogate that myth'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's people's fault in that they believe the myth'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? If you try telling most people that they don't have freedom of speech on twatbook or twatter, they'll call you a conspiracy theoriest'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'pretty sure there is some freedom'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'no such thing as 100% freedom anyway'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'THAT's what you tell the twats'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at what point is it non-free, and is it in the correct place?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you ban any talk online that might upset anybody, or break any law from any country?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'the bit about different country and different laws, how did they try to resolve it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea if it's even possible without applying all laws to all internet usage'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would result in a castrated internet where you couldn't say anything'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be basically just an advertising forum for corporations at that point - which let's face it, is it's main use now'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'castration'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd prefer for it to be treated as a public commons with total freedom of speech'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or rather, if you advertise yourself as a public means of communication, such as twatter, or twatbook, then you should follow that standard'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not take down people's pages on twatbook just because Michael Bloomberg shoved you a bunch of money to go with his agenda'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'it was to earn money? not to avoid being taken down or something?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the case of twatter it was pressure from the Turkish government (not really loss of money) and in twatbook's it wasn't loss of money, it was political agenda'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i understand twatter's situation, but twatbook? whose political agenda?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'twatbook have a habit of capitulating to the feds without question, even when they're in the right'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'twatbook has been taking down/victimising gunstores, gun clubs, and generally anyone vaguely pro-2nd ammendment after considerable 'pushing' by michael bloomberg's lot'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e nothing to do with revenue or the law'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'lol '
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Does turkey have a constituional freedom of speech?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were to do with revenue, they'd be promoting such sites as gun and ammo purchases are well up over the last few years'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'maybe it was just for show, to please micheal, idk'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey is essentially an authoritarian Islamic state, Ranrr, it makes me physically sick that they'd even consider letting them join the EU'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, then the probably is really there.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably what'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i like stuffed turkey for thanksgiving... oh wait'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Bobolai has been here just a second ago. You wonder where she went ...
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'i like puns.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'On that note, I definitely hope that turkey will not be accepted.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will happen if it's in the IMF's interests'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'authoritarian or not'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not that it really matters, the EU has no real power.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're joking, right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sovereign members cannot pass laws contrary to EU laws'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's a stale, dying organisation.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, it's stale and dying alright'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should never have expanded beyond it's early troop of SIMILAR economies'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's become a tool of impoverishing rich countries and looting poor ones'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No doubt. But that was the purpose.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly what the IMF wants, bring everyone poor and beholden to bigger and larger governmental bodie'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a bit like the US federal government but on a wider scale'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No military power, though, that's the difference.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no military power yet'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, not yet.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it IS on the cards, however'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, it's inevitable. And it will kill nato, and bring WWIII.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it won't kill nato'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nato is nothing without europe.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is odd, because it's mostly all USA'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The real power comes from the military bases all over the world. Without europe, that will disappear.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop them having bases there'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It will.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have plenty outside the EU, too'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too many'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it more likely the collapse of the USA will cause them to leave those bases before anything happens to the EU'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, maybe nato will not be dead, just less powerful than today. '
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's already irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't think the US will collapse before WWIII.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already is'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just in slow motin'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Just as europe collapsed before WWII. Once you declare martial law, financial collaps is irrelevant.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could argue it has been since the early 70s'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but at speed since 2001'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Europe has collapsed before every major war. '
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's just a question of when WWIII will happen, not if. Hopefully, I'll be dead.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, it'll be within 25 years'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I might make it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'any good non-fiction thrillers I should pick up and read?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'or fiction. either way'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tony Blair's biography'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh wait, you wanted non-fiction'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a jolly good primer for politically unsavvy people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=mjf2-p4Pcx8'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'per the Fair Housing Law, landlords can be seen to be discriminatory even if they aren't actually discriminating against anyone.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Fox (the Cable Networks parent, I think) fired an executive for using company email in a charitable cause.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lovely'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that any less ethical that MSNBC for blocking staff from investigating stories negative to the Obama regime?'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I equate it to bank tellers to run down bank robbers.  All the public is going to see is that someone was doing a good thing and Big Business shut it down.'
T3/r7/2014-04-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty stupid to view corporate news networks to be anything other than money-making business. Being impartial, fair, or even vaguely truthful or ethical is largely irrevelent - they'll do what they think they can get away with, just like any other business'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i understand why we have to study history, but why must i be forced to remember names and dates as well?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'what else is history?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if the study of history is to prevent people from making the same mistakes, then should i need to remember names and dates instead of events?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tylertwo: 'agreed, jop'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'might be hard to discuss that holothingy that that one guy did a while ago without names... or dates.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's alright if you want to study it, devote your time to it, but if i am uninterested in the details of who and when, why should i have to remember it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you need to remember those names and dates so you have an elementary understanding of the events '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'an elementary understanding of events would be why and how we can avoid making the same mistake.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but can you understand what x person was thinking without know when he lived and/or did what he did'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'timing and order make a differnce as well'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'absolutely'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the mistake you will make by repeating history will have no real connection with the person's mindset, history is supposed to teach you what not to do, instead i'm learning about what he was thinking, is that useful knowledge?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'he/she*'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'history is not all about learning people's mistakes, it's about watching our growth as a civilization/culture'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when i decide to make a decision and i rein myself back, it isn't because i remember someone else thought the same, it was because i realised someone had done it and regretted it very much.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Then should it not be for the enthusiasts who wish to have an indepth understanding of the culture? It seems that rather than names and dates we should learn how people's environs affect their mindsets.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but that mindset has influences that go back thousands of years'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'his name will not afffect his decisions directly, rather it is his environ, so why must i still remember dates.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'summarise. i don't need a back in 300 B.C, X person decided that he should do Y. The latter would have sufficed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'X may represent a name like Descartus, Leonidas, Immanuel Kant, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in the end what i mean is that if you want to study it it's fine, but people shouldn't be forced to remember every bloody detail.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'so when you know that person's name you can find out the other things that person did, who they married, who had influence over his life, if he had children, etc'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you can know his whole story and not just one decision he made, but why he made that decision'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'irrelevant, if taken in a whole i don't need to know their names, just how they affected the person. He had a wife that was kind and influenced him to push for himan rights.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'for example.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but if you don't know his name how would you reference that information'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i wouldn't know, but the textbooks are compiled by enthusiasts who do know and simplified so that i can understand without memorising.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heck, you could probably take our current history books and simplify the thing.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the records will exist for all to find, but these parts will no longer be a part of the curicullum. Rather, it would be knowledge for those who wish to have more in-depth knowledge to find.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'like some people in my class who remembered some politician's old house address.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'knowing names and dates gives you a point of reference, period.  You may not think it's important but it is a building block to allow more critical thinking.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then it should be reference rather than something i must remember.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the stuffing of information into the brain does not help them think.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'so everytime you have a thought about something in history you want to go look that up, find out who it was again, reread it all and then have your complete thought?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the reference could be in the text book, but i shouldn't have to memorise the damn thing.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some trolls and deliberate ignoramusses misquote history, saying something happened when something didn't, saying somebody did something when they didn't, and without names and dayes, ignoramus troll-fest'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hmm, that might be a problem.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'troll-fun by misquoting "references"'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'here's a page from a grade school on why we learn history http://www.calvertnet.k12.md.us/departments/instruction/socialstudies/documents/TheReasonsWhy.pdf'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but if everyone were stipid enough to take everything without research, stuffing it in ain't gonna help.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the student "hopes" that the "stuffing" is not "inaccurate"  (or skewed by omitted: perspectives and facts and interpretations)'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'but if you know that information you don't have to spend your entire adult life cross checking everything someone says'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i would still cross-check, remember the tougue map, sweet,salty,sour,bitter?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and umami'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'is it a truth?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when debating "religion", recheck everything, almost challenge everything; those religious nutters are deluded (self-proclaimed truth-teller) liars'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'read the linked pdf, i agree with all their points, but it doesn't in any way justify the memorisation of names and dates throughout.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'then don't memorize names and dates... like a said they give you a point of reference so that you can study the broader concepts, but by all means don't do it if you don't want'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wait, i think we're working under different assumptions here, your education system doesn't require memorisation right?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"there was a scripture somewhere that said ..."  -- without specifific scripture numbers, locations, names, dates,  the ignoramus illiterate is not believable'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if so, then this whole debate was pointless, because i was under the impression you had to.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then there's the people who make up names, dates and percentages.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'you don't have to do anything in this world but die... simply put'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i think i didn't say have to do in this world, i think i said in your education system.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'somebody's sarcasm-meter is not working  (i'd mention a name, but that somebody dislikes names)'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a light hint of sarcasm with maybe a dollop of incredulity.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'decisions you make on you what you choose not to study and memorise may have negative consequences, but you don't have to do it'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wait, that's from my side, yep, my sarcasm meter is working fine.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'translation: "be lazy and you may be sorry later"'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'do what? the decisions? or the study?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but if you suspect that the names and dates are wrong ...'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the study is for additional useless info like name, D.O.B, D.O.D, favorite foods, dog name, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the decisions you make will have no correlation with this, it will be with the event.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'dob and dod is not useless it let's you know what was going on in the world when that person was alive'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'favorite food and dog name, if your teacher makes you memorize that they need to quit getting lesson plans from teen magazines'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a group of angry people given a push will riot, i don't want to remember a group of angry 300B.C people given a push by a man named Wallace will riot.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the whole idea that i would need to remember dates and names, therefore, would be ludicrious.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'what exactly was the push, what was going on in the world at the time, who influenced people involved,  you need names and dates for that'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unlikely there was anybody famous named "Wallace" in 300 BC, but then maybe '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'any group of people raised in that manner, treated that way, would riot, the date the riot happened, and the name of the incitor, would not change things a whit.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'sure it would,   raised in what manner? there was an inciter? what was his story and why did he incite them?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now Vaporz, i have no intention of typing out an entire historical text, even shortened, just to make an example, are the push, what was going on categorised under name and time?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm showing you the questions names and dates answer,  i'm not really asking you'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but if i traveled in Mr Peabody's waybacmachine, dates and names are important, to know which abominatiomns to assassinte and or disrupt'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if not, are the name and time really so important my tests need to make me spew almost halfway through my paper with names and dates?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i'm assuming you are in secondary school or early college?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'do the names and dates answer the questions? or do they raise them? 1950, what happened in 1950?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are unable to specify "names and dates", you likely are unable to recall "references" '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'it's akin to learning your numbers before you learn to add'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's what books are for, providing reference, do i need to have them in my brain all the darn time.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'math and this have very little in common.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'except that in any course of study you need basic knowledge before you learn the next concept'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its good to learn how to remember things...'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'that too elchanan'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'even things i down-right despise?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'historical reference: when some books were burned, some scholars were able to reconstruct the books word for word  (note the missing lacations, dates, names)'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"you're making that balderdash up"  -- without names or dates or locations, the reference is "balderdash"'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well you should to know how to remember information before remembering information is essential to a career for ex'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i love memorising biology names and concepts, i am enthralled by physics and enjoy Chemistry, but should i really memorise all the things i won't use?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'don't enjoy either.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like if you wanted to be a lawyer case names and the outcomes at least would be extremely important'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"biology names"  ych -- unless Latin is learned, then more ych'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'hehe you still haven't learned you have to do things in this world you don't enjoy?  you are a pup...'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and dates too in the case that your info is outdated and since been overturned'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the scholars you mention, Zade, are either enthusiasts or people who have been forced to memorise this stuff, suffered through it, and are one of the elite.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i know i will have to do things i don't enjoy, but i have a right to complain if it is unnecessary.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elchanan, becoming a lawyer is to specialise, in which case you already know you have a knack for it, and you know you'll need it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what is so unnecessary about rememberinf names and dates'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'then go complain to the people who can change it. Make it a mission, Take it before your local school board.  Who knows maybe people will agree with you and you'll start a movement.    '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'very true but that is only one specialty and there are many specialties'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'at my level of study, how important will it be for me to memorise that WW1 was officially started off by the assassination of Ferdinand. Theb i'd need to remember the whole process, the turning of Italy, MUssolini, and etc, etc, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what lv of study is that'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'secondary school.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'your level of study is still getting a basic understanding of the world and learning how to learn'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i use this channel to temper my opinion, and also to determine if it is flawed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so you have not picked a field'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Science, from there i'll figure something out.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea your gonna need a good memory for that :P'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'anyways gotta wash car'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'and as far as stuffing your brain with facts... it's not a hard drive that's gonna run out of space'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'does it mean i ought to fill it with WW1(2), American history, British history and etc.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no, i'll drop out first.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'there ya go, decisions'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my grades will be dragged to the floor by my history and geography, and then nothing will save it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'gotta love compulsory subjects.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'or you can buckle down, study it for this very short period of your life and come out a better person because of it, but to each his own'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yeah, and then my time will be wasted from that, i will be disadvantaged to those who actually can memorise way faster, and still be disadvantaged as all will be insanely... average.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hell, maybe below average.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'gotta go for a bit :) baby is awake'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the difficulty with "names and dates" is likely from: not comprehending the historical references and or disliking those references, and or boredom with those references'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'lack of comprehension of why on earth i must have a number link to a name to an event, and vice versa.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which may be due to insufficient coherent exposition and explanation of those references'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the numbers and names are not abhorrent, the idea of wasting time on them is.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'numbers are very, very, bloody boring, unless looked at from a mathematical perspective.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how would you provide coherant exposition to the date the Opium war started?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'congrats'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but more likely: "uou want to play internet games, and thus you dislike schoolwork"  ---> potential uneducated loser later'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah, i'm going to study biology and chemistry, become a failure from history, and live life as an educated loser.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'internet games aren't my main pastime.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'reading still holds that position.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, the history of Opium trade in China -- excellent topic for "bashing the British"'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'suddenly, the topic no longer sounds appealling, i've heard quite a few of those.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade likes to study controversial "taboo" subjects and use f***ing astericks ... "fricking" you dirty-minded a******
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heh, unfortunately, some i would call dead topics, because i have heard so many renditions, i'm tired.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'studying controversial subjects is educational'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'too many and it no longer becomes so.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it becomes, mainstream, everybody talks about it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'politics, religion, sex, prejudices, intolerance,  (no holds barred discussion, no politically-correct-censoring)'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now that would be a sight to see.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but no cussing simply to be cussing '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade astericks out cussing, and or deletes the whole line
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unfortunately i know not enough about politics in other countries.'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is in Canada.  freedom of though yet exists here
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Joe Biden was sent to Ukraine. Wasn't it nice of USA to send it's national village idiot...'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'we do what we can'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a study warns in the UK that teachers are disproportionately made up of the racidal left, politically speaking'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'does the UK pay its teachers trash in primary school?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but it does micromanage schools to the point that it's practically impossible to get a quality education'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'who is doing the micromanaging? appointed beaurocrat or elected official?'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"warns" ?!?  -- seems like propaganda by Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'also, in other shockings, most abortion clinics are run by the far left, too'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was in a piece warning how extreme elements have taken over the unions'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably need to largely remove government from education, give people the ability to choose their kids education will mitigate the influence of the left'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seeems the "piece" is from somebody that sold out to the greedy capitalists'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'privately funded education condemns the poor to being uneducated tho'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said it would be privately funded, though i'm not ideologically opposed to private education, unlike the left here'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seen plenty of evidence of the far-left infiltration of american schools, too'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than taking government and politics out of the classroom, i'd suggest we scrap the obsession with sending kids to university'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'there's nothing wrong with sending children to university, assuming that the cost of going isn't prohibitive for any class of people'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since the greedy far-right capitalists pay for the politicians to be elected, and those "paid" poliicians then ruin the UK public education system, the blame is on the capitalists'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'but the expectation that college degree = high paying job... that's not gonna be sustained if everyone has a college degree'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already not sustained, scars, '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'it's still true that, in your lifetime, you will earn more with a degree than without'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not enough to pay back to uni fees though'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'on average, it is... it's just that it's trending in the wrong direction'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK government warned on that recently, it'll soon be -ve'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'right, but "soon" is not "now"'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the USA, the CIA used to fund the Universities and thus inexpensive higher education'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be now by the time anyone looking to go to university has finished'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'my degree has earned me exactly nothing scars'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'please do not make me explain why any random sample from the cohort is not expected to be indicative of the statistical characterists of the cohort...'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'would have bee far better off just working a crap min wage job and investing every bit i can save'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps with that higher education, you learned how to debate on a game channel'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'in other words, you are n=1, you and all of your friends might be n=100... statistically insignificant given the population of the studies done'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be nice if they went back to being centres of academic excellence for the academic elite in academic subjects such as science and engineers'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"better off" is not "being stupid"'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'there is increasing focus on the ridiculous degree paths offered at universities in america'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'usingl'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more than 3/4 of the people where i work hold PHd's Zade, i can guarantee you that while in their narrow field they might be well qualified, many of them suffer from being dumber than a box of rocks that i wouldn't trust my kids with'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'oopse '
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'life smart vs book smart, imo'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need both, shame there's precious little of either these days'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tony Blair set a goal of sending 50% of all 18yr olds to university. That is why university degrees are practically worthless in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'if the degree is less rare, ergo less valuable.. that's an acceptable consequence imo'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'again, given the financial burden to get the degree is not prohibitive'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the problem, they were mostly shit degrees'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'stupid kids learning a hard lesson then imo'
T3/r7/2014-04-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'media & social sciences'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i know company x is going to bid for company y at a 30% premium next week.  i buy company y stock.  am i always insider trading?  answer is no.  sometimes america is fucked up'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'depends whether it's inside information no?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'yea, it's material nonpublic info'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what exception is this?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it's the jewish hedge fund manager exception'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'otherwise known as bill ackman'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'whats this now'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaporz: 'i always thought insider trading was a load of crap,  why shouldn't someone who worked themselves into a position to be in the know be able to use the info they have?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'market fairness'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it's complicated'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because they're not only in a position to be in the know, they're often in a position to influence'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'stocks are a zero sum game'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'thats not nessasarily what inside info is tho'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you're making money someone is losing'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you mean that someone who is in the position to know should cheat the rest of the shareholders... makes sense to me.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'stocks are not a zero sum game'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well not the only type'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'for starters, they generate profits so value goes up over time'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well some stocks pay a return redryn'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we're talking about trading here, not really long term holding'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'insider trading concerns people who trade on sudden fluctuations in price'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'day trading is a zero sum game, essentially'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok i guess i misphrased but you get the point'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'insider trading is simply trading on knowledge which has not been made public yet'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if you know or should have know the info was insider info than you should not place a trade'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'just because i make money in a stock doesn't mean somebody is losing.  there are usually more people that own the stock than are short the stock'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what's the line on pork futures?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elchan there is not short or simple answer'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'derivatives are a zero sum game'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in most cases it should be pretty obvious'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'a company comes to me and says hey i want to buy company x for 30% more than the market.  will you buy company x stock to help me?  is that insider trading mr. obvious?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'or reverse if you want to, i go to the company and propose they buy company x at a 30% premium and the company says great idea we'll do that next week.  can i buy the stock?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's a broker who is executing the trade, rather than a financial advisor who is prompting the trade'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'this just happened to the tune of $4 billion'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'let's put it another way: X goes to way and says "Lend me 300M so that I can buy company Z". Y lends the money then goes and buys all the stock from X's company he can. That's insider trading.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'who's saying it's not insider trading?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'X goes to Y*'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'sounds like colluding to do a hostile take over. and in the case that a person owns more than a certain % of a stock they have to report changes in positions'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'www.wsj.com'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and if a broker knew this transaction was going on and bought ahead of the play it would be called front running and that is illegal'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'I will lay 50:1 that this rich jewish hedge fund manager (it's not me) won't get a slap on the wrist'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'wsj said this is not insider trading?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you mean won't get punished, or will get more than a wrist slap?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'most observers agree it's not'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'he won't get punished'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's odd'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'not being punished vs not being insider trading is different'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which of your scenarios was this one?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the former is a lack of enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'from what i've read on insider trading (not US law), the elements are extremely easy to make out'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'that sounds more like front running'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'can make it out to be either one, abe'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you talking about cohen?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ackman'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'here's the best article on it:  http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304049904579517970196604840?KEYWORDS=ackman&mg=reno64-wsj'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't see much wrong with what he did...when you want to do a quietish takeover bid, you usually do start by quietly buying up available shares until you've got enough to do something...and when the takeover bid comes public, you will benefit from what happens to the value of those shares...'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it's not really his bid'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'valeant came to him and said we want to buy allergan'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'so he bought 10% of allergan, and then valeant bid 30% premium'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i cant even see that whole article'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'instead of valeant doing what ackman did, for the benefit of valeant shareholders, they told ackman and let him do it himself'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'pretty nice way to make $800 million'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'zero ris'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'risk'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, not entirely zero risk, allergan could've made other choices'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'not really, allergan has no defense to a bid.  some companies have choices, but allergan doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the entire board can be kicked out in 60 days.  that allows them literally zero defense'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if that were true, then he wouldn't be resorting to trying to threaten them to take the bid'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'he doesn't need to threaten yet, everybody understands what happens now.  if allergan rejects, ackman starts the vote to kick out the board and shareholders will agree and vote them out to take a deal instead of letting stock fall'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he did threaten'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the only real variable is whether somebody else decides to bid more or some crazy regulatory intervention happens'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i wish a company would give me advance notice next time they are interested in another company so i can you know buy 10% of it and make an easy profit'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'such a fucking joke'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not just valeant buying allergan with him getting a free ride...ackerman's investment is an important part of the bid'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'and what i said about the board is true, allergan has the poorest defenses i've ever seen in a US company.  they had this coming to them'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what's important about it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is why valeant talked to him about it first...they wanted his help'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'nothing is important about it, valeant could have bought the shares themselves in the same way ackman did'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what's important about it is that it makes it not strictly an outside takeover'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and is why he stated he did not buy valeant  because that would have for sure been inside info'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'that's the paradox elchan'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You nod at Elchanan.
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ackman is receiving stock in valeant.  so he is restricted from buying valeant but it's ok to buy allergan at a 30% discount to the bid he knows is coming and get paid cash and valeant stock when the deal closes?  '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'however like i said sounds like front running'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well they can reject that offer'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he stands to receive stock in valeant, yes..."is receiving" isn't correct yet'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it sounds and smells and feels like what it is - total inside trading.   and you guys think i like to walk up to the line.. lol'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You snicker softly.
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ackman is not 'part of the deal', he just agrees to vote his shares in favor of the deal.  they can paper it up to make it look like he's 'part' of the deal (he does nothing except get paid and start a proxy contest, in reality), but constructively he's a total fucking crook insider trading.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ackmans knowledge was not inside information to allergan'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it would have been if they had accepted and offer and he knew it before the transaction was announced'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'he knew valeant was going to bid for the company'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'accepted is irrelevant when the bid is at a premium and they can force it in.  it will get accepted'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it will likely be accepted...that's not the same'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if he knew my senile grandmother was going to announce a bid for allergan, i would not say he would be insider trading'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the stock is up 30% abelinc'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right, as is usual'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hell, that happens when there's just rumors of someone buying, much less an offer on the table'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'no pt in playing semantics when the reality is stark.  he had material nonpublic info.  he bought the stock.  bid announced.  apparently legal.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if valeant ceo told his son who bought allergan stk that would be isnider trading'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if valeant ceo told you and u bought stock, have a nice prison sentence'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if valeant tells ackman and he buys $4b of stock for perchign square, enjoy the $800 million'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'and the SEC would hound u until the ends of the earth and leave ackman alone except ask him for a cushy job as compliance officer or research assistant'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so what did he put down in sections 4 & 5 of his 13D?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'has he been cleared by the sec yet'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'just announced yday elchan, if the SEC actually has a pair it's too early to swing them'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'Valeant currently intends to propose a merger in which the Issuers shareholders will receive a combination of cash and Valeant common shares. Valeant has not yet determined the amount of cash and number of Valeant common shares it will offer, but it currently expects the cash component will total around $15 billion. Barclays and Royal Bank of Canada have indicated that they are prepared to deliver financing commitments covering the cash portion of the transaction at the time Valeant makes an offer. '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'Although Valeant currently expects to make an offer, it is under no obligation and provides no assurance it will do so. If Valeant fails to make an offer before May 2, 2014, the Reporting Persons will have the right to terminate the letter agreement described in Item 6 below and wind up PS Fund 1. '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'The Reporting Persons and Valeant intend to consult with each other in connection with their respective investments in Common Stock, as described in Item 6 below. '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that was ackman's disclosure?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'pershing square / its GP / Ackman are the reporting persons'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'Pershing has filed the 13D jointly with Valeant Pharmaceutical (VRX).  Pershing and Valeant entered into their agreement on February 25th, 2014 and they're working together via a joint vehicle called 'PS Fund 1, LLC' that VRX will contribute $75.9 million to.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'obviously ackman got it vetted by white shoe legal teams, and if you read the agreements there are some legal machinations, but you unavoidably arrive at the fact that valeant told pershing they wanted to buy agn.  pershing bought the shares in advance, and valeant announced the bid.  in the meantime, instead of pershing taking a $4B stake on that info, valeant could have done it for their own shareholders but didn't.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the paper might describe it as a "joint" bid, but there is nothing joint about it.  pershing just gets paid out at the end of the day and moves on'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'honestly i have not got to reading that part yet so yea'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'basically, valeant wanted some agreeable people with voting stock as allergan shareholders...he's a plant to speak on their behalf without being valeant...'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and looks like valeant provided the source for at least some of the funding'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'bottom of page 5 on the 13D'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'correct abe'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'pershing is not really providing financing.  maybe $400mm if you want to get creative, but constructively nothing'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'if the valeant ceo tips you off that they are going to bid for a copmany, just have a conversation about wanting some agreeable with voting stock beforehand and buy away!'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dude ok this should end they did not tip him off they are working jointly'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'basically...at least until the laws are changed to be more in line with the spirit that you'd prefer ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and they probably want and investment advisor to help the work the deal through'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which they probably will (be changed, that is)'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: ''jointly'.  hmm mm.  and what does pershing bring to the table other than a 9.7% vote which valeant could have acquried for itself in the same way for its own shareholders rather than paying ackman a premium?  not seeing what ackman is bringing at all.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elcan, valeant is a professional dealmaker.  the most acquisitive company in the history of pharma'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'they don't need an 'investment advisor''
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and why would you say that'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'because I know valeant very well (just not as well as ackman!)'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'does not mean that there are not cases where they might wanna use an advisor'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'for context they will basically have gone from $2 to $100 billion in 5 years all through dozens of mergers if they get allergan done'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elchan yea i expect they will say whatever their lawyer needs to be said to minimize ackman's legal risk.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'but ackman isn't advising.. allergan was valeant's idea.  nor is he really providing any financing (that comes from banks, not hedge funds)'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what ackman brought to the table simply was the ability to buy shares longer before disclosure would be necessary...so valeant's "side" would have a stronger base'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'did you read that 13D even'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'disclosure window is the same'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'yes, E.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'HSR and 13-D rules apply the same to both pershing and valeant'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'except as intent to take over a firm'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what are you referncing'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how many of valeants past mergers/aqucisitions where hostile in nature'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'HSR is a dollar threshold.  13-D is an ownership threshold with intent mattering once over 5% but same window regardless of whether you are a fund or a company'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'numerous, E'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'are you theorizing or do you have a specific concern'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'whats a hostile takeover they did'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'plz tell me this question has a purpose other than testing me'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like thier failed hostile takeover of cephalon'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'who later merged with teva'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'ista'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'im just thinking ackman obviosly has something to bring to the table or they would not have went to him'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'dont put the cart before the horse'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ista rejected valeant's offer...'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'and then what happened'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bausch & lomb bought them, but that was before valeant bought B&L'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dont use debate ohhh so another rejected takeover humm'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so while they're owned by them now, they were never taken over by valeant'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is funny cuz valeant had offered almost 70% premium on shares'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and pealse dont use what ever the those are called "dont put the cart in font of the horse" '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'kind of meaningless info'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'look up afexa'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what's the pt, i love playing stump kojiro, ask me moar'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i mean juictice'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/afexa-approves-valeant-takeover-bid/article555568/'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'elchan, every hostile deal ends in a friendly'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'it has to'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'article places it as a friendly $76-million takeover'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no it does not'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'dont be full of shit'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'please explain to me how a hostile deal can be completed without it being friendly'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, if allergan sez no, and ackman and company oust the board and take over, that'd be rather non-friendly'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'in canada it's theoretically possible.  in the US, it's impossible.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'no, that goes friendly when the board signs the merger agreement and recommends sharehodlers vote in favor of it'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and no paper would write it as being a friendly takeover'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well if you can buy up enough of the company then replace board and what not ...'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that makes it successful, it doesn't make it friendly'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'the original board is no longer there soo yea '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'a board recommending shareholders vote for a deal sounds pretty friendly to me'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are plenty of friendly mergers/aquisitions, and there are plenty of successful non-friendly ones'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the new directors don't have to agree.  sometimes they actually reject'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'in which case no deal'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'just look up the definition'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if the company does not aporive of takeover it is hostile'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'hostile = board does not recommend in favor.  friendly = board recommends in favor.  there is your definition.  it's not hard.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yp so like i said find a hostile takeover that they had sucess in'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'the funnt part being you asked for a hostile, i gave you one which was completed, and then YOU called it friendly b/c the board recommended in favor.  so it would seem you agree w/ me'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and seriously tho a 76 million $ takeover is nothing compared to a possible 15 billion'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, we called it friendly because it was a friendly offer, which was never resisted'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if board agrees and shareholders agree its friendly'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'paladin had a hostile takeover offer, valeant had a friendly one'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'see imm'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, yup saw'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so like i was saying it might have been very well in valeants best interest and the best interest of its shareholders. Use a firm like Pershing in order to increase there chance of sucess '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and its not insider trading from what i can tell'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'i can't think of a theory for how that works though.  valeant could have bought the votoing stake themselves'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'not only that if the deal does go through pershing will be left holding 1.5 bill in valeant stock with a 1 year restriction of sellion of hedging those shares'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but thats not that they do'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'they are not an investment firm'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'so a third of the position he has now for a short while, representing like 1.5% of the combined company.  what does that mean...'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'what is pershing then'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'valeant funded part of the current position '
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: '2%'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'of the position'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea im seeing they put in what 75.9 mill'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'evenin to you, thought criminals'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nice, Georgetown Tx brings in ordnance to limit the size of your lawn'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarutobi: 'Having more free time isn't the same as having money to spend. You still have to use that time. You might be able to play 20 hours a day while I play 20 hours a week, but our characters are on even footing 20 hours played. Let's assume we both have lots of free time. I donate lots of money. For the purpose of our characters competing against one another at 20 hours played (combat, for instance), I will have a significant advantage.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarutobi: 'I would call that unfair.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarutobi: 'rather, an unfair advantage. I'm not saying the system is unfair. Feel free to match donations or play more hours than me to catch up.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if no one donates it is unlikely that there will be a place to spend 20 hours playing, at least not here.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some players pupped 1,000,000 pups, or 5,000,000 trains, or (5,000,000/10)*325/100 = 1,625,000 dollars if somebody believed that donations were able to catch up with that T9 player fast'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when has there ever been a time when not enough donations were made?'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'we don't know what the total donations are, so that answer has to be speculative.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I dunno, Lasher's only done donations for a few months at a time for a long while.  If he were having a cash-for-aardwolf problem, I wouldn't expect him to close down donations simply because the traditional timeframe had been reached.'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'on the other hand, we are not really in a position to determine why Lasher does what he does...'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'donations have come in slower the past few openings than previously, but donations are usually kept open long enough to have a few months "escrow"'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and zade, no player has pupped 1,000,000 pups'
T3/r7/2014-04-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hrm, misread a whois, reduce the 1,000,000 pups to 100,000 pups and the 1,625,000 to 162,500 dollars -- yet a hefty sum'
T3/r7/2014-04-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Greg Abbot kicking arse. Perhaps slightly tasteless since he's in a wheelchair'
T3/r7/2014-04-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU elections here soon'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well, now i know Malaysia's truly in deep waters, as i will be if i don't get the hell out.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hudud is once again being raised up. Damn PM says Malaysia isn't ready yet.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'A political party intends to review and see if it fits their bible, the fact that they're considering this is mad.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'eh? i saw malaysia mentioned, can someone catch me up on what's being discussed?'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i just raised it, -h 10 ought to do.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'ah, yes, the entire region is fucked really'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i live here, i know that bloody well.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'as do i'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'get out man, but where to? which country ISN'T fucked really?'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they also want to bring non-muslims before Syariah.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Can't still studying, parents not qualified enough.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'to get out is easy, where the heck to go is the hard part.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i don't think they'll pass those laws though, there'll be too much backlash'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i mean seriously, even among the muslim communit'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you really think so? When have they really cared, it's another 5 years till elections.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i do, there will be riots, again'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'remember bersih(i think that's what it was called) 2.0'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'again, hopefully we're mpre persuasive next time.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Bersih was non-violent, and they didn't give a damn.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'didn't it get violent though? like water cannons and all'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'water canons fired at PEACEFUL demonstrators, violence on the police end doen't garauntee violence of protesters.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'l'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'next one they didn't send water canons and said it was thanks to them the riot was peaceful.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'l?'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'sorry, typo, doing a bit of research now'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i'm a malaysian who's never lived in malaysia'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unsurprised, we need to get the hell out.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heck, we need to actually vote, shift the balance. But it's a little too late now...'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'l'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'gah. sorry'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'l'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i'm surprised'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'the non malay population has almost caught up with the malay population'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the other way around really, i think it used to be about balanced.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'really, hmmm, do you find that the country has been shifting to a more islamic slant?'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dude, hudud, Syariah, laws against civil court interfering with Syariah decisions, i suppose so.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'recently there was that Indian court battle, between Syariah and Civil, because the husband became Muslim.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the husband secretly converted the children, the wife found out, filed for divorce, gained custody of child from civil, husband went to Syariah, gained custody of children, snatched one of the children and ran off.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'i might be wrong, but i'm hopeful that the backlash will be too strong for them to implement it'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'can you imagine telling most mats that they can't drink anymore?'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i hope so too, or i'll be absolutely screwed.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'mats?'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'malay bengs'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ahh, now that'll be a sight to see.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you know about the halal enterprise right? Darn extreme.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'and the damage to the economy from tourism'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'and i can't say i do actually'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah, the NEP was worse.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'certified to be muslim edible, none of the ingredients, or utensils can be from pork or have touched pork.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'ah, religion'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'isn't it lovely>'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a grand illusion. that it is.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry, gotta go.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'take care'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the big thing is, i don't think it qualifies as Islam anymore, it's gone to extremist and closed minds.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'it's jus pas at the moment though right'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'back then, it was open, they learned things from others.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yeah.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'not that bad then'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'UMNO is considering it.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'MCA is being hypocritical as always.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'lets see how things go'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'watching just makes me wonder how humans can evolve backwards.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Adirion: 'easily'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rapturous Sunsoar: 'why fox news meantioned Bundy 458 time from April 1 -24th... but only twice since.'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably largely because Jon Stewart pants Sean Hannity'
T3/r7/2014-04-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'John Kerry had me laughing my head off today, aren't you glad you have a comedy genius running your foreign policy!'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't realise what nasty, and rather retarded piece of work Cher was'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'washed up, incoherent and nasty, mostly plastic and botox mean spirited and genuinely ugly leftist battleaxe'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's with all the american race war bollocks of late? I can't read any news without being bombarded with stories about white people being demonised for being racist'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has the smell of a political agenda about it'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same as the UK press has been doing nothing but run hit peaces on UKIP of late'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I am offended by your opinion, & since I couldn't possibly ignore you or control my emotions, I demand you never express your opinion again. --Ricky Gervais'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'm not a fan of Ricky Gervais, but he's right'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i did find the sketch he did for Comic Relief, where he faked a visit to a starving african village (which got many official complaints) both extremely funny, and delivered quite a cutting and important message'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I just happened to see that quote on twitter, I'm not really a rabid fan.'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Ricky a comedian or intolerantly rabid serious '
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DgIRjecItw'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make your own mind up'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those "starving african villages" (as seen on TV!) are usually fake and contrived'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no youtube here - impossible on dialup '
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally loved it, don't think you'd get away with it in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't realise you were in dialup, zade, though spose it's not surprising in the arse end of china'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the reason that companies and schools are restricting internet usage is that the bandwidth of a simple webpage request is usually several megabytes (and YouTube is a bandwidth hog) [most of hose megabytes are scripts and other crap] and megabytes add up into gigabytes fast -- the internet is choking with bloat'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an issue, except as a means of justifying web censorship, as can be seen from planned changes going through atm'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i occassionally peruse the internet cache to see what crap a website sends [several megabyes of script to display several thousand bytes of scanty information]'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually rubbish adverts and tracking scripts, i block them as a matter of course'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ghostscript is good for that'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and to let you know what i meant: http://www.afp.com/en/news/proposed-us-rules-leave-open-internet-fast-lanes/'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some obscure organisation sent an email: 2000 bytes of letter, with an attached 1.7m gif displaying their simple logo -- no viruses or anything -- yet ludicrous -- as though sending their logo-bloat indicated authenticity - into the delete folder'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well zade, i entirely agree with you, but what you are describing is natural creepage of technology - the abuse of modern tech out of laziness. If you oppose that, apparently it makes you a luddite, or an extremist'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems the beief that since everybody subscribes to high-bandwidth is no data-ceiling, send them megabytes of crap '
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a few years back we complained of pphysical junkmail'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it never went away, Ontuct, neither did spam phone calls, it just followed the technology'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and thanks to twatbook and 'free' mail servers such as googlensa and others, your contact details are everywhere'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I don't get as muc physical junkmail, I thinkit has a higher per piece cost.'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mine is usually restricted to credit and insurance chasing, or crap from my old uni's'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the video games, i hear that 60 GB and higher is becoming common -- and a Steam account may want to update several of those games -- so maybe half a terrabyte of updates -- more that enough to blow the 3GB a month download cap that Bell offers canadians -- but for a few dollars more, students may get an extra 100 GB a month -- but Steam updates are going to blow that fast'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find that's the whole point - pay per gb'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or buy a more expensive contract with more gb/month or some form of restricted uncapped package'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have any ideological objection to that'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure why you'd only have a 3GB data cap though, unless you have an absurdly terrible ISP'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Bell Canada decided to fleece canadian customers by offering low GB caps, even those that pay extra get not much more, (and busineess accounts are likely business pricing)'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's worse is that you're being conned because it'll be 3 stupid irrelevent 'metric' gigabytes, and not 3 proper original context-sensitive scientific gigabytes'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'incase you weren't aware, proper gigabyte = 2^30 bytes, metric gigabye is 10^9 bytes'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if i pay $70 a month for an unlimited internet cable connection -- that's a money drain -- and anybody outlaying that money is going to want to download a lot of movies and TVseries (for no extra cost).  Even then the downloaded "quality" is crap compared to a Blue-Ray DVD with directors-cut etcetera (unless those are downloadable on a BlueRay blank(?))'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$70 canadian?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'neflix can stream at 4K resolution now'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'netflix*'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can, you probably won't benefit from it'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and paying $70 a month just so that Steam may update games that, (in a decent world), were supposed to be working 100% when purchased in the shop -- deliberate (malicious) internet robbery by the software companies'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'depends on if you have a 4k tv and enjoy House of Cards'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'or whatever else they're doing at 4k now'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suffice to say i won't be worrying about it, most tv is just crap'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quicker to stick your brain in a blender then take a shit on it'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, is $70 a month too high a price for internet without caps -- there may be taxes on top'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'be a pain to clean the blender afterwards though'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'that seems like a fairly slow process, actually'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I mean, I don't even keep my blender plugged in all the time'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'and my intestines aren't that full right now'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get someone else to do the defecation'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound far out if it was a fast cable connection with netflix subscription thrown in'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Also, I'm pretty sure you need a brain to be able to do the second part'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't get unlimited internet here for much under $40 and that's on regular broadband over pots'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might get "unlimited" broadband which is just heavily shaped uncapped broadband'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'price also depends a lot on bandwidth'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone, the end to net neutrality is a bad thing, is anyone likely to disagree?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'describe "heavily shapped" uncapped broadband '
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heavily shaped broadband, the speed of the traffic delivery is dependant upon the type of traffic. As a rule file sharing and file downloads are pegged to 256K'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'a lot of companies will give you "unlimited data usage", but not "unlimited data usage at the max speed you paid for"'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'I want a 1 gig pipe to my house'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or sometimes they'll put into place "fair usage policy", (which means fair by their measure)'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'japan is miles ahead of us in terms of speed and technology'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i get 100/100mbit fiber without caps and throttling for 24 euros a month'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'japan is also a dying country'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the $70 per month business pricing is unlimited business-extremely-fast downloads'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I get 5mbit (though I often get speeds more like 8mbit) unlimited for $35 US'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when japan has 10 million square kilometers to outfit an infrastructure in, then we can consider it to be an equal discussion'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd be typically looking at around $30 for an unlimited, shaped package here, or around $50 for a business broadband with no caps and limited shaping'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if a few retired customers download lots of movies and tv-series -- there is doubt whether they are able to watch all those movies and tvseries'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the agonies of watching tv nonstop'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but is ending net neutrality a good thing?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'when watching those idiots with sticks and stones and guns... i wouldn't want to give these guys a citizenship to my country..'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oh, ukraine again yes'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wassit?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russian ukrainians perchance?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if i was a powerful president, i'd go invade some place where people are smart:p'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, but your country only wants iffemenate sandal wearing hippies that send other people's kids to die in wars in countries with nothing to do with them'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(oh, and who vote for the establishment)'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'man, you just never let up on this'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'why not take all this enthusiasm to a place where it might matter... like reddit'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'fuck. english is incredibly hard language to debate with. bail'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that was one of those sandalwearers just there :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Reddit was last on: Thu Dec 22 00:13:16 2011 -- 857 days, 17 hours and 19 minutes ago'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reddit, thats one of those lame modern interweb things, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just like youtube.'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'except way better'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'tumblr porn is better than reddit.'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'reddit comments links to porn'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks pretty lame to me'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'steered/stagemanaged democratisation of news/discussion'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reminds me of a character from a comedy show called "Dale Maily" whose strapline was "telling you what you need to know about the news. Teaching you the right way to think"'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now, if it was non-monetized and non-moderated........'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"bad troll debate excludes good intellectual debate" - Gresham's Law extrapolated'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roll out your Nazi's and let's bring out Godwin too - we can have a bbq'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to say about reddit, Zade?'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thought the idea of a heavily moderated social news forum run for profit would get your heckles up'
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is stating that the deliberate mediocrity and obscureness of scanty information by insufficiency trolls is seeking to reduce actual deep debate on the aardwolf debate channel
T3/r7/2014-04-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'wow do i hate long emotes'
T3/r7/2014-04-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'People are born gay: discuss.'
T3/r7/2014-04-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Groups use sexuality and race as an means to divide people. Discuss :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Udz coughs loudly.
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'need a ricola?'
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Udz: 'no, wish the debate on gossip would move here so I can turn this channel off '
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'oh, sorry, are we using a general channel to talk about general things'
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'should we use this as gossip then?'
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'sorry about that'
T3/r7/2014-04-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Udz: 'some of it is debate others arent :p'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think David Sterling should pull all his investment out of his team, sack everyone and tell the NBA to go fuck himself'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'what does that even mean, pull his investment out of the team'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'he will sell the team at a huge profit, and then he can tell everyone to fuck themselves'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he owns the club, according to the media'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the guy is a racist jewish billionaire democrat arsehole, the only thing that i'm annoyed about is that the media is missing the fact that this is an attempted blackmail (sorry, 'coloured'mail). Two wrongs don't make a right'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'correction, republican, not democrat'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'ehe aggred to the nba's power when he bought the team'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'it's already been debunked'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all democrats'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'no they're not.'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually they are, there are no republicans anymore'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'ok. I'm turning it off, since you don't care for a debate. Just a place to bloviate. Well, welcome to this.'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good riddance :-)'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd call someone who donates to one party but is a registered supporter of the other an establishment man'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry person'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'http://owningyourshit.blogspot.com/2011/05/data-who-needs-data-when-you-got-belief.html'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lies, damned lies, and government statistics'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pissing off feminists is up there on a list of doing public good somewhere below feeding the homeless'
T3/r7/2014-04-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it legal for DOJ to target gun shops, porn stars and other businesses it doesn't like by pressurising banks into not doing business with them? Isn't it discrimination for banks to refuse accounts based on that sort of criteria?'
T3/r7/2014-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Grissom: 'have there been any debates about political systems on this fine day?'
T3/r7/2014-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'political systems?'
T3/r7/2014-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shooting has started in eastern ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oo, much more shooting in southwest ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-05-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'what did he do?'
T3/r7/2014-05-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what didn't he do'
T3/r7/2014-05-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, Hitlery Clinton'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'question: Is environmentalism the new fascism?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'answer: no.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're wrong :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, that should read "I disagree"'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is an alarming trend in the UK for former public lands that generations have enjoyed to be taken over by 'trusts' and public access and use restricted/banned'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'environmentalist lobbying has cause laws to come in that have ratcheted up the cost of living of millions of people, including those already struggling to afford to live'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an authoritarian power grab'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also a way to limit population growth'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with population growth'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'add it to the list of conspiracy theories'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, some of those authoritarians would rather see most of us dead :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, no, lack of environmental control is a way to limit population grouth :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they wanted to limit population, they should ban stupid people from breeding, including environmentalists'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'there would be no need for control if people controlled themselves...'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also interesting that the dominant conflict of interest in climate science is linked to governments (who gain power from regulations and fund most of the research)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'most people don't seem to realize that'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damned right'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the people who think it isn't an issue, or think it's a 'conspiracy theory' fall into two groups - those who don't know anything about it, or those who it doesn't affect'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'does US have friends?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'o.O'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'like real buddies?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'hwuaijijal yes. remember israel?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'does any sovereign nation?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, Kerry seems to be trying to Unfriend Israel'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i never understood the israel&us thing'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'Israel isn't a real friend they are mor of a foothold in the Middle East and a convient reason to start a war if/when its needed.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the U.S. has typically showed a lot of support to Israel because they're about the only democracy in that area.  Well... at least that the boiled down, un-nuanced reason'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Since the US has not exactly been systematic in its support for democracy, you might want to conjure up an additional reason or two :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm just giving what seems to be the stance, or at least the most common reason proffered.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'it seems that the borders are for the "not friends"-people types'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'any country'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '- 4'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel is a basketcase'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd argue that Israel is a far bigger threat to peace in the middle east than Iran'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think it has to do with them not being a real country, and all'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they take a bit more of an agressive tone, but that whole area is a tinder bed of politcal unrest'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'isreal is a real country...we said they were'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a country born of terrorism, stabilised through ethnic cleansing, expanded through warfare, and who continually violates it's neighbours'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why it has such a lot in common with the USA :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'hahaah sounds like America Tiger'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'careful, you'll have the blind people whinging that you're dissing murica'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'Naw I <3 America'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'you are less then 3 america??'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, i don't think you do, i think you <3 the american dream'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'But I also have read enough history books to know what it takes to build a country'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, I like living in America for the most part.  Though I hate living in Illinois.  And apparently I'm not alone in that.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-poll-half-of-illinois-residents-would-move-from-the-state-if-they-could-20140501,0,663132.story'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'hahahah no i don't think so '
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's any comfort, i hate living in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'I love living in america...'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'I've been to other places and...i'll always come back here.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, it's where you live'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, America is trying to catch up to the U.K., so...'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'catch up how?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but at least we fired Piers, I still hate that rat bastard'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'i sure hope not...i'd hate to have a door knob tax '
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I think we've taken a liking to big brother'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I need a nanny to tell me what to do'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'of course, at this point, I'm getting most of my perception of the U.K. from Top Gear, so... I might be slighly misinformed'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think the honest difference is that in the UK we have a nanny state. We don't much like the nanny. You guys have a nanny state, and the nanny is a vicious, malevolent arsehole'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'Hahah we've only really gotten that nanny in the last 20ish years'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same everywhere, seldeszar'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'previously our nanny was more of an advisor, but apparently people forgot that they were responsible for their own actions.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately they've been teaching people that a big brother government is a good thing, so people accept it now'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm just tired of peopel wanting to make everything they disagree with against the law'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seldeszar is agreeing with that Tigernuts person again...
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're screwed, Razkin, you're outnumbered by stupid lazy feckless people who want the government to wipe their arse'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will never change it'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes, which brings us back to hating Illinois'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what's better, thanks to 'globalisation', you can't even escape it by moving'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but sorry, globalisation is fantastic because of cheap white goods'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Globalisation (the EU especially) gives me a business and the 18 ppl I employ in the UK.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't like the negative impacts globalisation has had, which apparently makes me both racist and fascist'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it just bothers me that people don't see the connection with allowing other people to have the right to make choices with their own right to make choices'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no downsides to globalisation at all, are there, Vanellus?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'No worse than localisation - just different.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'hehe you guys uses "s" instead of "z"'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Seld, it's because we speak English'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh, I was waiting for it '
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'yeah..i speak american '
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'next well have to listen to how we drive on the wrong side of the road...'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'naw you guys killed it on the round about things'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so thanks to the EU, Vanellus gets to abuse cheap migrant labour and dodge taxes'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly beneficial for him'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'possible beneficial for the people he hires'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'they're British workers - very highly qualified scientists.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so how can you guarantee that without the EU you wouldn't have those jobs?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616288/NY-woman-finds-letter-pleading-help-hidden-Saks-shopping-bag-Chinese-prisoner-wrote-inside-slave-factory-operation.html'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Because I know my own business?!'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not allowed to post daily mail stories, Razkin, they're racist'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'apparently this happens more than you'd think'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a strawman argument'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I can only post Salon.com stories?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and mother jones'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ok'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'im sure you guys are being funny but i don't know what those are '
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the first time I read a Salon.com story, I thought it was satire'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so your scientists employment is contingent upon EU parliament contracts?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'then I realized, whoa... they're serious'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'There's a real limit to what I can discuss in a MUD. But our work is EU work, based on certain EU structures and legislation.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're feeding directly from the beurocracy'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'do you think your business is reflective of other businesses in the U.K. as far as benifits from globalization, etc.?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when most people say they benefit here from EU membership, actually what they mean is they benefit from the free market'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Tiger: no we're just doing real, needed science. Razkin, it's not a-typical.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's real and needed, why would would it not happen if the EU didn't exist?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or does the sphere of science only exist in Brussels?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e, would the science not be needed if the EU were not to exist at all, and would the science have been needed had the EU been a purely free trade blocK?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Nobody would have got off their arse and mandated it until something went horribly wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it clearly isn't energy science because they have single handedly failed to put adequate resources into the fusion project'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'If we left the EU tomorrow I'd have ~20 scientists and support stff UK and more in Brussles looking for work.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know they've put some money into health sciences about here'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Fusion? You mean because thewy closed Torus here? boo hoo?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fusion research is a damn sight more important that fake environmental science they're so obsessed with'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess it depends if you actually want to -solve- the clean energy problem or not'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Energy research in general is, I'm not sure fusion would go anywhere.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rather than having 20 countries spend 20 years arguing about where the fucking reactor is going to be built and getting nothing done'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'My background is in the nuclear industry (not what I do now) so I kinda think all the rest is a bit redundant.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'I like wind turbines though.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wind turbines are a boondoggle for making corrupt people a lot of money'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nobody seems to want those in their backyard, though.  At least here'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you, razkin?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nope, but Illinois has a bunch of them not too far from where I live'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they take up a lot of space'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'I wouldn't mind. I quite like them.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the uk they build them out to sea, which means their electric costs more than double that of gas, and to top it off, they give the contracts to foreign companies and pay people here to be out of work'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but people still seem to get riled up over them.  Again, that may just be the area that I live in'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Mmm I have some about 500m away - not... out at sea?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty universal, Razkin'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'In fact, I couldn't really live farther from the sea.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'onshore windfarms are about as popular as a fart in a lift'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'That's true, though I've never really understood it myself.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are some on some of UK's hill ranges, and farmers stick some smaller ones up where they can to try and make ends meet after being ripped off by the supermarket oligarchs'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it seems that a lot of people don't like the look, plus, they're physical foot print isn't exactly small'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bird watchers aren't fond either, razkin, or anyone who is poor enough to struggle with fuel bills'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'I'm a keen birdwatcher (hence the name). I don't mind.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but rich enough to not worry about the bills..'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'I prefer nuclear. But I don't mind our wind turbnes - 5 of them just... humming away.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Actually, that is the one thing that's interesting about Illinois, 75% of our power comes from nuclear, which is the opposite of most of the rest of the U.S., and world'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that why you glow in the dark, Razkin?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hey, it makes reading at night easier'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I get cool super powers, or so I've been told.  They haven't shown up yet'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'My newspaer of choice says...'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of issues at why people hate the EU here, but most of them are exacerbating by terrible government policy on housing and the economy'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'heh... you don't want to know, really.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally it's the democratic deficit, the media here however fixates on migration'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'They all do, true. My paper is as left s you get, but even it fixates on labour costs and migration.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Is a weird british bugbear'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because people are struggling with living costs already'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Migration doesn't affect that hgely.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it puts extra pressure on and gives people something to blame other than the true culprit - 40 years of spastic government'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'If we just got rid of the monarchy and redistributed its wealth for example - that'd be a better start.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what wealth?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'It's massive land incomes, all the stored shit they keep. Lots of good scrap metal there, too.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Its not it's'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only wealth the monarchy has is the crown estate, and you can't redistribute that without selling it to another monarch or oligarch or tyrant'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which leaves you in the same mess on a different day. Also it just isn't a significant amount of money these days'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, you're talking about something I don't know much about.  But would that fix anything, or would it just 'feel good'.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'estates. And all that income could be far better directed.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and also, why the monarchy? they're irrelevent, they have no power'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the monarchy is again, not the problem, it's just an emblem people can be duped into blaming'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Principles. I happen to think the idea someone can have fealty because of birth is... a bit medieval?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is it any different being forced to swear fealty to a country's government instead?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'But I also think parliamentary democracy has been a short-lived and reasonably failed experiment.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trouble is, the public is a bunch of jellyfish - a proper democratic republic requires people to be forever vigilante against the threat of government taking more power and control than they were originally given. Look what's happened to the US as an example - it's basically a federal corporate fascist dictatorship'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think Razkin got lost in the detail'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, my wife came in and started talking to me.  I get distracted pretty easily :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think of UK as being like Illinois, but crappier and without having had Wayne's WOorld'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'this is a very sad state, with poor employment.  And the closer you get to Chicago, the more corruption.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unfortunately, if I walk out to the road north of me, I can see Chicago'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Could be worse, you could live in Detroit.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and of course, Chicago has laws that only cops and criminals have guns, and quite commonly they're the same person'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, Detroit is a very sad situation'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Detroit will get better :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but Michigan as a whole is still fairing better than Illinois'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Well, true, but really it can't get any worse so it has to get better.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in fact, I think the only state that has a worse economy is California'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Well, true, but really it can't get any worse so it has to get better.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'of course, Illinois technically has East St. Louise, and that's not exactly a pretty place'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Sorry, ..anyway I think Detroit and Illinois were considered two of the most corrupt states.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but yeah, Detroit makes me sad.  Though if I ever get brave, I want to go to the Detroit Art Museum'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'on what basis or metrice established that I don't know though'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'mertrics*'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'lol nm you get it =P'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, our governors don't retire, they get incarcerated'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we sell drivers licenses'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you're not getting a construction contract in Chicago unless you're related to someone'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Well, I lived in Belleville for a time...and in that time east st. louis was the murder capital so..'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i got moved on by the fuzz last night for being black without due care and attention'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Then I think Gary took over as the murder capital which shockingly enough is basically just a chicago slum.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'I've often said I wished Indiana would just annex Lake county to Illinois.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i've been through Gary, I don't recommend it'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what do you mean 'moved on'?'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'lake county, it sounds nice'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'That's sad, Tiger.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'A lot of people blamed East St. Louis for being the way it was because it is predominantly black but truthfully, the state and county let it happen'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krynal: 'Industry shut down forced it down the path of neglect.'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'moved on, razkin: "Pack up your things and leave the area or you'll be fined"'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our laws are penned so vaguely that the police are basically a law unto themselves'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which differs from US police, who have a constitution government their actions that they swear to uphold, but then don't because the federal government tells them they don't have to'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governs their actions, even'
T3/r7/2014-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit rich that Obama calls people complaining about the TPP 'conspiracy theorists' when he is keeping all the details secret even from the American government'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to worry about, he doesn't lie: If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the snow stopped, but it's still only +1C outside :('
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be global warming. Thanks Obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'throw away your car and live off dust, give all your money to corporations, that'll solve it'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'Australia is considering allowing health insurance companies to charge extra OR charge less for healthy customers (ie. under a certain BMI, non-smoker, non-drinker)... Thoughts?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defeats the object of health insurance, no?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i come from a country where you pay towards healthcare according to your income and where everyone's healthcare sucks'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'the idea is that those that are obese, smokers, etc. are far more at risk to have issues'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the point of insurance tough, Barahir'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the idea of insurance is the you spread the risk over the healthy people'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'technically a single-payer government health insurance is the ultimate insurance because the risk is shared over the entire population'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'True, but there gets a point where the healthy people say "wait a minute, I take care of myself.. I spend money on healthy food, a gym membership. Why am I supporting these fast food guzzling, good for nothing slobs?"'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'this is private health cover - not governement'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it sounds very much like profiteering. At this point, what's the point of having health insurance?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'but the government still doesn't permit the insurance company to charge people who are obese or have obvious health issues more'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where do you draw the line. Do you allow health insurance companies to do genetic testing on customers to see what they're predisposed to?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'that would be taking it very far..'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vilmer: 'health insurance lets hospitals get away with charging ridulous fee's for every little thing'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so where's the line, barahir?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'I hear what you're saying Tiger.. but theres still 2 trains of thought I have.. Firstly, the insurance companies are private businesses in it to make money. They should have a right to charge higher risk clients more accordingly.'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't have to charge higher risk clients more in order to make money, the idea is they charge everyone more to cover the extra costs'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'secondly - we allow car insurers to charge male drivers more as they're deemed less at risk of having an accident... isn't that just as discriminatory as this?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it is, and the same principle holds true'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'so they should charge the lower risk people more?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'the problem with that is the fit and healthy people don't want to subsidise the fatasses... so they might lose a lot of business from people not buying insurance as they deem themselves healthy enough to be low risk'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'My -opinion- is that if insurance is mandatory, there should be a maximum multiplier between the top and bottom'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'thats bad for those that want to make money from selling health insurance'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'this health insurance isn't mandatory'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'car insurance is, and health insurance is mandatory in some jurisdictions (which is why i'm extrapolating to a general principle)'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'its not compulsory in this country'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well then all they'll do in your country is price unhealthy people out of the market which will put massive strain on whatever government or charity care you have, or failing that, cause a spike in death rate and suffering'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barahir: 'or it could prompt a lot of people to get healthy enough for their health premiums to drop?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think you understand corporate insurance'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if people get healthy such that premiums would drop, then premiums for everyone will rise to maintain profit margins'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '34 closed, 6 to go in the Texas Abortion Clinic Massacre'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they're closing down the clinics?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes sir'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'MSNBC (Chris Matthews): You're a racist if you oppose raising the minimum wage'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'hahah that was always offensive to men...especially being a black guy'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'well i'm half black/half native american.'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'i despise jesse jackson and al sharpton, so that makes me a racist?'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I hate the marathon, I'm a racist too'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: '(and i'm against rasing the min wage also)'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Dispel Majic!!!  Tigernuts cheers her on.
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Seldeszar!!!  Tigernuts cheers him on.
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a black transgender lesbian, so no, you're racist because you're only half black'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it goes, i'm all for raising the minimum wage in the UK, but our circumstances are hugely different here'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rumours are that despite losing the senate in 2014, Obama will press ahead with bankrupting the US energy sector with global bullshit.uhh..warming legislation via executive orders, and is also planning to steal large swathes of state and county land for similar reasons'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're ok, Maggie slaughtered our coal industry in the 1980s, then successive governments proceeded to piss away all the money from North Sea oil and gas and now we're left short on energy and subject to similar bullshit EU laws that prevent us making cheap energy'
T3/r7/2014-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how interesting.  The Soviets built and activated a Doomsday Device in 1984 and it's still online.  Life in the USA could literally end tomorrow.'
T3/r7/2014-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'perhaps Perimeter (that's the name) could explain our border security situation.  Illegal immigration isn't a problem, it's a defense strategy.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never fails to amuse me how green evironmentalist extremists push us all into short sited policies that end up costing all of us money, especially the poor'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oklahoma taxes solar panels/small wind turbines in microgeneration http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/oklahoma-alternative-energy-taxes-20140423'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Its amusing that everyone thinks Prius cars are green. And eating local food is greener. And.. yeah.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and of course, california, having seen gas tax revenue plummet because of the push for people to buy economical cars, is now looking to tax cars per mile'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Prius owners should be gassed'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Taxing per mile might actually help with the environment.. Hmm.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, that was a bit democrat, i meant to say "Prius owners should be taught the error  of their ways"'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how do you figure that?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'People will drive less, meaning we will use less gas and have less emissions going into the environment.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what makes you think people will drive less?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'If its taxxed per mile? People will be aware and make less.. excess trips, lets say.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you want to know what will actually happen?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Or they will use alternate forms of transportation.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Its similar to what America's recession did for driving/environmental issues.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what will actually happen is that initially people will drive a little less, but the drop will be small because ultimately most people drive because they need to. Ultimately the price of everything will increase to cover any extra cost'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but as usual, the people worst hit will be the poor'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I doubt they'll exempt transportation of goods, so we'll also get to pay more for commodities'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'True. But if the prices go up, there will be less drivers on the roads. Less pollution, etc. Efficiency just makes our environment crap.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have an ideological objection to being charged per mile, provided it was done via odometer readings and not via gps, but the fact of the matter is that it's a tax-raising power, not an environmental issue, and anyone claiming otherwise is deluding themselves'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not convinced it'll make people drive less, I mean, that's one of those things that sounds good on paper, but doesn't always translate to the real world'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Its both. It will help the environment. Of course, its not the smartest way to do such.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think it's more likely that we'll see about what happened when the price of gas skyrocketed, which is that people bitched for a while and then went right back to doing what they had been.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will barely affect the environment'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Razkin, when the American recession started? People drove a lot less. We still drive, but excess trips to theme parks and etc are cut.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, gas here is well over 4 dollars, a few years ago, people went into fits of rage when it got near that'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'So they keep driving, yes, but less. And that adds up.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to help the environment, champion population reduction, champion banning of chinese imports, champion huge taxation on gadgets/mobile phones'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I haven't seen a drastic reduction except among the quite poor, who don't make up a high percentage of miles driven anyway.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder how that affected the funding of the national parks'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, people have to drive to work'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people have to drive to get groceries'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and, did people drive less , or did they just not go on vacations?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Both.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Bought less, consumed less, didnt waste gas like they may have before. They cut down because cost went up.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '#of miles driven is down by 2-3% from 2007-2008 peaks'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '#of people is up, of course'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '2-3% is not really drastic, though'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'No, but it does help.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it might 'help', but charging per mile would cause considerable pain for the gain you'd get'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and this is with a near-doubling of gas prices'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gas is near enough $9 a gallon here, people still have to drive'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'there were similar reductions following the 73 and 79 oil crises, but then the upward trend resumed relatively quickly'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'isn't a lot of that from taxes, though, Tiger?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Their logic? It'd make people stop driving except where necessary. Which sucks, and is stupid. But it would help a bit.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, razkin, about 80% of it is tax'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it won't make people stop driving except where necessary, heh'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Where I live, and for pretty much all the people I know, it has. We walk or ride bikes, we don't drive unless we have to.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'of course, one thing that would really help the environment is putting more funding into public transport. where I am now, for example, there's an airport about 20 miles away, a train station 60 miles away, and the nearest greyhound stop is 60 miles away as well. I couldn't go anywhere without driving even if I wanted to'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's the problem with the suburbs :D'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, if you live in a city it's possible. it's also frequently less obnoxious due to congestion'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, that's what it boils down to - city rules being imposed on rural areas'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Majic, but the issue is, then that will pull drivers off the roads which makes more people want to drive cause, less traffic!'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'this isn't a suburb, if it were a suburb of some city we might have a train stop, it's a little town'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh fi? '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Cities are more green then rural areas.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the US were to bring its recycling rates to Japanese levels, that would probably help more than any gas tax you can conjure up'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ahh, well, still, in the suburbs, public transportation is inconvenient for a lot of people, so they seem to opt for driving'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also full Agenda 21 implementation would .. help ..'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck agenda 21 to hell'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Tinada, that too. Majic, if there's a busy freeway always slow, adding a train will reduce congestion meaning more people will be willing to drive and take that freeway.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada crosses his arms and nods slowly and sagely to Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yes fi, but it won't result in a net *increase* in people on the freeway'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fiain probably doesn't even know what it is'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and if we make the train cheap enough, it'll still get utilized '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you really want to help the environment, you could try getting the green movement to focus less on co2 and more on important things :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Tinada.
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'So more people travel, and there are more emmisions.. Its just efficiency, everyone thinks it'll help our environment but it doesnt with rebound and all.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm limiting my consumption of all sorts of non-book things, although I don't claim to have particularly pure motives'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'And Tiger, I do know what that is. ^.^'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm at a complete loss as to how it's going to cause more emissions. '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you seem to act like it's going to result in the same number of people on the roads and more people on the trains as well'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but most people are travelling because they need to go to work or to the store, not just for fun.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, they'll just go out to eat less, which won't matter, because that's a pretty small industry'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'It will.. Ok, lets say you want to take a trip. The road is always congested though, so you don't take the trip often. Now, lets say a train is built. The road is now less congested and so you can take the trip more often hlbecause its more convienient.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'This is more for those drivers not going to work, or such, however, so for trips and all. I know that it wont change workers and errand sorts of trips.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'or you will take the train instead because it's as cheap as driving and you can text without risking your life or others'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'People will still drive, however.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'of course they will, but the goal is reduction, not elimination'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if you put a tax high enough to genuinely dissuade the people who have money, you'll make it impossible for anyone else to get to work'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'this kind of reminds me of the whole cigarette tax thing'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'as tinada mentioned earlier, there's been roughly a 2-3% reduction in miles driven, with a doubling of gas prices. '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if we increased them further, maybe we would decrease by 2% more, while again increasing the price of commodities such as food'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, the cigarette tax seems to have fueled a minor decrease in smoking and a major increase in people smuggling cigarettes :p'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'I never said what their plan is, is smart. But the logic is that when things become more efficient and convienient, people will use them more, enough to more than make up for any savings. So they think to make it less convienient.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it for, Fiain, what are you trying to achieve?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'What were you trying to achieve bringing it up? This is debate, and I do find it interesting to hear other opinions. ^.^'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I understand their logic, I just don't believe that it's going to result in a net increase in consumption.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I still think it's hard to make an accurate prediction on this type of thing, especially since i"m hesitant to give the government another way to tax people'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'government rarely removes ways to tax people'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, especially when you're not taxing something where most of it is a luxury'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that is a question in itself, i brought it up to try and demask green policies for what they are: either short sighted and stupid, or simply tax raising powers with a sugar coating of trendiness'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'That, I agree with. It's not going to help very much because of America's mindset.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Tiger, not all 'green' policies are that. And should we just stop trying to make 'green' policies period, if that's all they are? ^.^'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for large part, we should stop them, yes'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'some policies I think are great, the HOV lanes to encourage car-pooling etc.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only green policy in the UK i can think of that was helpful was the subsidies to home solar and wind power generation, but not for the reasons given. Government introduced it because of dumbarse EU targets they'd signed up to. I think it was good because it diversified and localised power generation'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think that's a great policy too.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Giving 'green' cars access to the HOV lane was a bad idea, I think.. But the original idea was a good one, too.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'some more local policy changes have been the removal of restrictions on stupid shit that should never have been restricted in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'for example, in the name of 'green', someone I know managed to get her town to rescind their (idiotic) ban on clotheslines.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'more towns should (in the name of 'green' or otherwise, I don't friggin' care) quit trying to make people have lawns instead of vegetable gardens'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'That.. wait, seriously, there was a ban on clotheslines?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've seen towns that won't let you collect rainwater'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Razkin.
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yep, some states won't let you collect rainwater'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Well, locally grown food can actually end up being more expensive then just buying food at the supermarket. Isnt that because rainwater can be polluted?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no, it's because they have chronic water shortages'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'from run-off, sure, but usually it's the water table, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it can end up being more expensive in a $ sense, but I doubt in an environmental sense'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but, people can collect basically a barrel of water, and use it for other uses, typically with a small impact on the water table'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but you can't tax it'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'run off chemicals are almost always from industrial farming, not from gardens'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'food at the supermarket has usually had to be shipped from the field to a processing center, then a distribution center, then to the supermarket, and then the consumer had to drive to the supermarket to get it'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though places like golf courses can cause huge problems, but still'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Local grown, on a little scale, isnt too bad on an environmental scale. Local grown food on a farm wise scale can be worse for the environment.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm discussing people's backyard gardens :p'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'industrial farming, you know, the type of farming pushed by the EPA while they close down all the mom & pop family farms, just like they did in the UK over the last 30 years'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but either way, rainwater isn't usually potable, so people would use it for gardening, maybe toilet water, etc.  Instead of using processed water'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Well, a lot of times its cheaper to grow food somewhere else then grow it locally, Tiger. Just from climate differences. Not saying its good, but that can be true.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'cheaper, yes, but you still have to use the gas to ship it in, and if you're growing on a large scale to run the ag machinery, etc'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'rather than using people's labor to weed their own veggie garden instead of mowing their lawn '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fiain, why would you legislate to force people to buy centrally rather than allow them to grow food gardens in their yard if they want to?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'I agree for that. It can save a bit- I have my own garden. But I still, most of the time, need to go buy the food at the store and it does cost money.. But lawns are just as bad.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it sounds like something out of communist RUssia'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'oh, it won't eliminate your need to buy food'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Tiger, I was commenting off of your comment of industrial farming and mom and pop farms. Not Majic's gardens. :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people used to have family farms to supplement their living'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't make them inefficient'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(or efficient)'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: '(efficiency is half the reason the environment is like it is :P)'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps it'd be more accurate to say that family farmers had jobs to subsidise their farm'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'family farmers were certainly better custodians of the environment than industrial farms'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'arguable. they just worked on a smaller scale, so each individual one's contribution was less'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but small family farms used to have some pretty shocking agricultural practices'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'But then all of them seperately drove to the market and the stores for supplies for said farms.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what, Fiain?'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Less gas being used, Tiger. Which does affect the environment.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe so, Fiain, but once you get rid of family farms you're denying future generations from the land'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'n the other hand, joe bob driving 15 miles to the market is a little different than shipping a semi full 1000 miles across the country. it's going to depend on how much joe bob takes and how full the semi gets as to which one is more efficient'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Majic, depends on the crops. Extreme example, sure, but if Joe Bob is growing rice in the desert, itll be cheaper to ship it in. :P'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'oh, absolutely. i don't think i said anything that implies otherwise. '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'And more green, as well.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you wanted to do the most efficient thing for the environment, Fiain, you'd exterminate all the people'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Tiger, when did I say that? ^.^'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'on the other hand, people shouldn't live in the desert in the first place, other than a few people who can be supported by dates etc.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you didn't, but if you frame things purely in their benefit for the environment, that's what you get'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and there's no reason that you *have* to eat rice, rather than things that grow locally. '
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Wanting us to reduce the damage we do isnt the same as me wanting to kill everyone, silly. :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'True, but try telling that to people who live in Arizona, that they shouldnt live in the desert. :P'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reducing the damage isn't necessarily the only consideration either'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i will tell you that in many things, global control, globalisation, or upward scaling is often detrimental and counter-productive to achieving the aims of good environmental stewardship, freedom liberty, prosperity etc'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this story made me chuckle: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/baby-mamas-ambush-father-564321'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'roflmao'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taking the trash out :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/loaded-gun-hidden-in-vagina-576432'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vagina holster!'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '- 4'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seldeszar: 'Giving every kid a trophy even if they lost horribly is bad for the kid.'
T3/r7/2014-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it leads to the kid getting crisped in a marijuana lab when trying to make hash oil.'
T3/r7/2014-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama got elected to office through affirmative action.'
T3/r7/2014-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a very nice, racist, comment...'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of news stories in the british press this week about how the death rate for asthma is much higher than in other european countries. SO I find it amusing how the doctors are refusing to fill my prescription for the inhalers i've had for the last 28 years because on their records i haven't been to their nazi clinic this year'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Do inhalers prevent death from asthma?'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'good control of asthma prevents death from asthma'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'inhaler use is a component of achieving food control'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'er, good control'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, vost'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I wonder why the asthma is higher in the UK. Pollution? Poor diet? Lack of sunshine?'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'asthma isn't necessarily higher in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to know why asthma is increased over the last 30 years, you can probably point to environmental toxins - same reason hayfever and allergies have exploded'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'modern semi-dwarf wheat = more autoimmune problems'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 's/asthma/asthma death rate/'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I definitely have less allergy since I switched to a paleo diet, so that might be part of it, tinada.'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'death rate to it in the UK is probably because of bullshit like this the NHS pulls'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'no it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is basically a layer of beurocracy including the GPs that replaced family doctors that act as gatekeepers, barriers to stop people getting the care they need'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same medications are used vost, the only difference is the beurocracy that controls it'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'GPs shouldn't be prescribing medications ad infinitum without seeing the patient'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless it's a long term condition with a settled treatment plan'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'even long-term patients need to seen by the GP occasionally'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well this isn't a GP that they're demanding you see, it's a nazi asthma clinic nurse'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they refuse to give appointments at times working people can get to'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll offer them a compromise of an appointment with a GP if they have one in hours i can make'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a fall back, i wonder if i can buy any in the US when i'm holidaying there in a couple of weeks'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is that Hitlery kept Boko Haram off the terrorist list?'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, according to her press secretary (or whatever her title is), 'because of stuff'.'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reality: The rebels in Libya that the US state department supported in their overthrow of Gaddafi were allied with and passed weapons to Bok o Haram'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woopsy!'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess there is some sense in aiding and abetting the spread of al-qaida through Africa'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does anyone else think it's a bit hypocritical for the Pope to push for wealth distribution?'
T3/r7/2014-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Civil forfeiture. Why do we allow police to confiscate personal profit and keep it without due process?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'confiscate personal PROPERTY for profit and keep it'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the (self-righteous) callous attitude of your "contributions" to prior discussions on the debate channel is likely answer enough - self-righteous callous politicians (motivated by self-righteous callous blowhards) passed those self-righteous callous laws'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a lot of righteousness, self or otherwise'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you often claim to be "colored" - if so, look at where you came from ethnically -- look at the callous "laws" and conditions there == perhaps those in the UK are grateful for the laws in the UK, compared to the horrid conditions in (say) Africa'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what an absurd racist diatribe'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you want to change things for the better, then your ethics must be white as the wind-driven snow '
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'note that the color "white" is a full spectrum color'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think bringing race into things is helpful'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is almost sure that Tigernuts once claimed to be White 
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is this Racist Zade day?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost claps half-heartedly for Tigernuts, clearly unimpressed.
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or is Zade's argument that bad laws should be given a pass here because some arbitrary group of people in an unrelated country are getting bad treatment from an unrelated government or group for an unrelated reason?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you want to discuss "bad laws", and the reasons those "bad laws" are passed by polititions, then you are looking at dirt, and that perhaps means looking at the contributions of ethnicity etcetera'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps is argument is that we should HAVE bad laws here BECAUSE African tribes sold each other into slavery hundreds of ears ago. Is that it?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so son't censor things by playing the "oh nooooh, racism!" card'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you brought it up'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'politicans don't need race to generate duff laws, a lethal combination of stupidity and greed are more than adequate'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'too simplistic an explanation'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'sinister cunning and callous greed and other motivations'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually just variations on greed or stupidity'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether callous greed or evil greed, still greed. If it's lust for power it's still greed.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'dark prejudices, intolerances, seeking of vengeance, motivated by (say) religion, ethnicity, gender preferences, etcetera'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarl: 'Communism not worked cause greed.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'speak proper english'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can you give some concrete examples of such things, zade, that have happened in the last 10 years?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Zade is currently analysing whether or not God exists or not'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the answer is no, then'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the political analysis is another deep topic (likely analysed elsewhen or elsewhere)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you can't manage that, you'll never prove or disprove the existence of god'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"whether or not a decent political system is able to exist or not"'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'able to? yes, though it's very unlikely due to entropy'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whether God exists first, then the other whethers'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'God is irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a lot of bad comes from bad religions'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot of bad comes from lots of places'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'religion doesn't hold the monopoly on being bad. Religion is a source of control over people. Anywhere you have a source of control over people you have opportunity (and therefore, a hotbed of) abusing people'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mostly from bad religions, bad politics, bad business, bad etcetera'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, most bad things come from bad things'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'until bad religions are "deprogrammed", likely difficult to deprogram "bad politics" '
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no bad religions, only bad people'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'people are the cause of all problems!'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'name a bad religion, then'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Islam'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, so we're on the Islam-bashing now'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i need to turn the page'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you asked, i answered'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Islam is no worse than other religions'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Islam is no worse a religion than atheism'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'a number of people in power use the religion to further their own agendas'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is feigning clueless as to religions'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is that different to people in political power using their political position to further their own agendas'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or someone in authority to further their own agendas'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'er, what's your point?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a priest is just a politician from a bygone age'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I am showing that Islam is no different to other religions'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'imo there can be both good or bad to religion'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'political regimes come and go, but some religions seem to stick around'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm saying religion is no different to any other construct that confers and imposes authority'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'clueless'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'there are many religious adherents who genuinely believe the tenets and don't attempt to use it for their own (wordly) power'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'worldly *'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'honestly i find religious people tend to be nicer '
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Zade -is- a card carrying communist, it's only natural he'd want to purge society of all religion because it threatens the power monopoly of the party'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'like Flanders'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do too, Redryn'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but when the "behaved" religious-moderates (indirectly) support the violent intolerant whacko religious-nutjobs'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'what is this, ad hominem sunday? oh wait, it's just the debate channel.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it's Tigernuts' favourite debate style'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you (indirectly) support the power crazed whacko politicians in your country'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is against communism
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is that any different from YOU, Zade, supporting fanatical political nutjobs doing horrid things like bombing innocents, fermenting coupes and installing authoritarian laws?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do you pay taxes?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'do you obey laws?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost grabs some popcorn and sits back to watch the show.
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SoothSayer Anaristos starts to hear the faint sounds of a cricket chirping.
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'don't worry, no one has ever conceded on debate channel!'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we'll be here for hours'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you expecting him to say?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'just wait for it'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's different'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you don't understand!'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're a troll!'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no u'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and a racist!)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'your mom's a rapist'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'for your information, Zade. Communism and Capitalism are different interpretations of the same philosophy. The people who originally advanced both  camps studied under the same person: Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel  '
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'sure, they are both interpretations on how to run a government...'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'it's not that simplistic.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'indeed, it's not that simplistic'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'Hegel had a world view which was unique and scary. He believed in the absolute State.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the 20th century , the Communists used to disparage Capitalism  -- (maybe they din't read Hegel)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'The implementation of Communism which we are all familiar with is not the one intended by Marx. In fact, it is not really communism.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'capitalists largely implemented the communist manifesto'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Marx was violent, Marx Communism degenerates into violent bad Communism -- (by the evil fruits the evil tree is knowm)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'in an ideal communist state, workers would work not because there were compelled but because they enjoyed contributing to society.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you fold "state" and "corporate oligarchy" into one meaning and reread thecomunist manifesto, it's only point 9 that didn't get done because they found a better idea, and point 8 because robots made it irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"there is that which seemeth good, but the ends thereof of are those of death"'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'in other words, an ideal communist state really has no government. Everyone would willingly do what was required to be done, just because they wanted society to florish.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'star trek vision of the future'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flawed only in one way: people'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'an ideal society would  be anarchic :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't subscribe to the whole anarchy thing'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'except extreme brutal violence is required to bring in Communism, and those bringing in the violence maintain a violent oppressive Communism'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be exactly the same as it is now just with a higher bodycount'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'well, anarchy has been given a bad name. Lack of government does not mean disorder.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is no way that communism shall come in peacefully, (unless everybody is dead)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'eveb God rejects Communism'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how do you have order if there is no governance?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'because each one does what has to be done, willingly. No need for a compelling force other than desire.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except that you will HAVE compelling force'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the same reason communism won't work, anarchy will not either'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'if it rains and your roof leaks, that's a compelling force, yes.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if heavily armed mobs come and steal your roof, that is also a compelling force'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'indeed, that's why the basic requirement for anarchy is that the people be civilized.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well therein lies your problem. Especially in these days of opulence and laziness, people are not civilised'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some folk like to be criminals'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some folk like to exploit others'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'well, not only these days. I don't think humans have ever been civilized.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some folk like to be (cunning) abominations'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the law of nature is against communism'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'communism is contrary to and against the law of nature'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'the sad thing is that anarchy in its true form is more efficient that any other form of society. Also, more dangerous for those who are not advocates.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there comes a point where you have to be informed by your ideology not restricted by it. The world isn't perfect so compromise is needed'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Anaristos, this is why i support the idea of a minimal central government with most functionality devolved to local, accountable bodies'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'it's hard to compromized if one is not civilized :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'there is no such thing as a minimal government. They will only be minimal for about 10 minutes after implementation.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of laziness on behalf of the people'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'I think it's more that people haven't evolved sufficiently.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"civilised" - almost a joke word if here is no authority enforcing "civilised"'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'folk are "civilised" because they better be civilised "or else!"'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'enforced civilization is not civilization.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'for humans to become civilized they must transcend their current state, which is based mostly on pure animal behavior, with a little aid from their brains.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'even the civilisations of bee hives are chemically and genetically enforced'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'that's correct, Zade. But for bees, that ok because they function to the full extent of their nature. Not so humans.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'bees, and other animals, are compelled to behave a certain way because they have no way to defer responding to stimuli. Defer response is what makes the human brain unique.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'well, the primate brain :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but...it's my nature to sit in a chair, fed and housed by the government and entertained by magical moving pictures'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Tinada!!!  Tigernuts cheers him on.
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'absolutely, but you are aware of the choice. In fact, each time a stimulus to do something else comes in, you hold it without response indefinitely.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'a dog has no such choice, when the certain stumulus comes in, it will respond immediately.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'woof'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'thats not strictly true'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'humans have automatic responses all the same'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'not necessarily behavioural automatic responses'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'instinct is alive and well in humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'yes, they do. But they also have the ability to supress automatic responses.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'until some become horny'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you watch MSNBC, then you've probably had all of your body's ability to react replaced by dull acceptance of communism'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'only certain ones'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'dogs also have this ability'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'you see it all the time, people stand at a light waiting for it to change, suddenly someone starts to cross and the rest follow. But if one decides to look at the signal, they can stop because the light is still red. A dog can't do that.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, what of "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'a dog can definitely do that'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'the following is instinctive, the stopping is not.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'these aren all trained responses'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'are all*'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'red is a cue to stop, stopping is the response'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't watch it, zade'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from what i've seen the guy is a bit of an arsehole'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'likely censored in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'censored from the US, we're not paying viewers'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'If you can show that dogs and other animals can defer responding to stimuli, I will be very happy to see it :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: '"stay"?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women train men to do that, too, Havoks'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Jon Stewart is jewish, surely you like him.  He is very popular'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'a well trained dog taught to stay, and then shown other stimuli, will arguably "defer response"'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, zade, because i like things that are popular'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts rolls his eyes at himself in disgust.
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'stay is not an automatic response, and it only does it because it has learned that either not doing it is painful, or doing it is pleasurable. It's just an application of the Pavlovian principle.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'and in fact this takes a lot ofdebate but that can be argued about human behaviour'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'sorry my client makes it hard for me to know what ive deleted'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'self regulation can is a learned trait in humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'can be/is'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: '- you mean Skinner rather than Pavlov.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'dogs can also be taught self regulation'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'you can't apply it to humans, because humans will "stay" by choice, even if you train a human to "stay" on command, they can override it any time they choose to. Whether they choose or not that's another topic.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'but a dog can "choose" to override a stay command too'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'it takes cognitive effort on the dog's part to follow commands'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'just as self regulation is a practiced trait in humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'many of the examples youve given are merely learned traits/responses in humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'sure, they can because stay is instinctual it's a learned response. For instance, they won't stay unless they recognize the situation (the person, the voice, the location, etc).'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'sorry, stay is not instinctual.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'not following'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'you can teach a dog to come when it is called, and get him killed by calling him across freeway lanes.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'you can do the same to a child, believe me'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'it responds to the command and nothing else. Like scratching an itch :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'its not though. it has been shown that it takes dogs cognitive effort to follow certain commands'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is that what you use psychology for, to kill dogs and children, tsk'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'sure, you can do that to a child. The child has not learned about freeways. Dogs, even if they learn about freeways, will come when they are called.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'automatic responses dont require effort'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i feel like im defending dogs' mental capacities here, but im trying to say youre not giving enough credit to dogs'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'and giving too much credit to humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade 'd teach the dog to come and not be killed on the freeway
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'dogs have a certain mental capacity but it does not include deferring stimuli.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'from what i understand, youre defining "deferring stimuli" as experiencing a stimulus and delaying a response to it'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'correct?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some dogs are not that stupid'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'humans are basically animals'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'right, let's go back to the dog. You can teach a dog never to attack a human. So now, a human comes and attacks the dog and he will just sit there, for instance. He understands it understands it is being hurt but it cannot disobey.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'youre using the example of an extremely well trained and conditioned dog'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'humans can also be conditioned like this'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Can the dog, by inaction, allow a human to be harmed?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'on the other hand, you can teach a dog to defend itself, but you have to be specific, you have  to teach it, for instance, not to defend itself against you. Otherwise, it will defend itself no matter who attacks it.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps the dog requires a better teacher, not a callous psychology student that disrespects dogs'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vanellus: 'Can the dog, except to protect humans, harm itself?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'that missed the point completely, Zade :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'you mean like the 3rd lasw of dogbatics?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'dogs are rarely that well trained/behaved precisely because they have instinctual behaviours/personalities that override certain training'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'just like humans have individual differences'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some dogs are more evolved than other dogs'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'and if the argument is that humans can experience stimuli and not respond to it, a lack of response is still a response - there can never be no response'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'just like how a dog can be trained to not respond to certain stimuli under certain conditions, which requires the same mental effort as humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'well, I have said all I am going to say. If you believe dogs cand defer response to stimuli, that is fine with me :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i mean are you basically saying impulse control'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'I mean stimulus in the most basic sense of the word.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'impulse control isnt unique to humans or primates by any stretch, is what i am saying'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some animals are able to be self-aware'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'well stimulus as in seeing the colour red'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'or the sensation of wind on your skin'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'when a signal is processed by the dog's brain it will result in action, whatever action it requires. Be it, jumping for your throat, or wagging its tail.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'or a restraining action'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'and the same signal will get the same response each and every time.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'too simplistic'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'but thats not true'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'it wouldnt get the same response each and every time'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some dogs are able to learn'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'its been shown a few times in studies that dogs have self regulatory processes that are similar to humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'the same signal in the human brain will demand the same response, also, but the human brain can choose not to respond.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'but thats not true either'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'ok'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'theres a dual process model in processing information'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'choosing not to respond is a response'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'so a dog can decide not to eat today because if it does, it won't have food tomorrow.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i again go back to you not giving dogs enough credit'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'because im pretty sure a lot of wild animals learn to ration food'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'you put a bowl of food in front of the dog and tell it that this is it for the next 3 days. What  will the dog do?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'youre now introducing language comprehension though'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'ok, put the bowl of food in front of the dog, what will it do?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'if i told a chinese kid (note: i dont speak chinese) in english that what im about to give them has to last a year, they wont know what to do either'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'do you think it will consider that there  will be no more food? You think it will stop and consider that?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'do you think a chinese person under no context will consider or understand that?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'what?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'well, not a chinese person specifically, people in general'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'if you suddenly just gave a person a bowl of food and gave them no context, would they know to stop and consider that maybe tomorrow there wont be food?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'the chinese person, just as the german person, can consider that tomorrow will be a day without food, even while eating and decide to stop and save the food. It doesn't matter what language one speaks, unless the language lacks words to describe "tomorrow".'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'which is the problem the dog faces.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'but if you dont give them context, they'll probably just eat everything you give them'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'if the dog has been eating everyday, and then one day you stop, why would it know to ration?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'likewise, if a person has been eating everyday, and then one day you stop feeding them, why would they know to ration?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'if they choose not to think about the possibility that there will be no food tomorrow, that is all it is, a choice.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'dogs may be taught to ration'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'there is no choice for the dog unless a) it's not hungry or b) it is ill.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'but wild animals ration food'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'a dog that has been eating regularly isnt going to think about rationing food for the next day'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'just as a human that has been eating regularly wont think that either'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'by choice, not by limitation.'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i argue that the "there might not be food tomorrow" thought wont even cross their mind'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SoothSayer Anaristos: 'anyway, I have enjoyed the conversation. Stay well :)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i fall back on my thought that you are giving too much credit to humans'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'full disclosure, i have a phd in psych and dont believe in free will'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'badly contrived psychology experiments are ridiculous, and some of the conclusions invalid'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'no doubt'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'its a crappy field'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Havoks: 'i wouldnt doubt that more than half the publications are using falsified data'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a phd is psychology. do you now have a real job? :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'texas man charged with having sex with his wife!'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'she has to want to'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the horror'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was consentual :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Surely if one man and one woman were involved, it is, by definition, rape?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or perhaps I have been overexposed to feminism recently'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'she wasn't his wife...he's her teacher...'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they got married AFTER they were caught having sex'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ran off to vegas'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in this case, the girl was 16, so irrespective of marriage, he was charged with sex with a minor'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the sex before marriage was still illegal'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, not irrespective of marriage'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's not being charged with having sex with her after the marriage'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the news story states that Texas law forbids sex with a child, being defined as someone under the age of 17. Are you suggesting Yahoo news is misleading people? :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'hope sodomy wasn't involved too. that is likely illegal there too'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, "Police said there is circumstantial evidence that the two engaged in a sexual relationship prior to legal marriage.". Aren't you glad that your tax money is being used to such good effect'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not seeing the particular story you're reading, I won't comment on whether it's misleading people or you're misreading'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's a sleezeball who tried using marriage as a loophole to get out of the shitstorm of trouble he was about to be in'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the girl's mother's in on it. should be prosecuting her'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'she wasn't in on it from the start, but she is an idiot for getting onboard'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what it illustrates is the need for the age of majority to be fixed at 16 for everything'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or 18'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, this is him: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1000963/'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the actual bloke?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup, voice actor for kids anime'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was the wife japanese, and does he own a tentacle monster?'
T3/r7/2014-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, a medical marijuana user in Washington state faces 10 years in prison for growing pot'
T3/r7/2014-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see all the western leaders declaring the eastern ukraine referendums illegal and invalid. they're quite happy to call a parliament dropped in as a result of a violent western-fermented coupe as legitimate (Obama even called them the 'elected representatives of the people')'
T3/r7/2014-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a finer piece of hypocrisy you'll never see'
T3/r7/2014-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, a recent poll found that only 9% of americans carry around no cash'
T3/r7/2014-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's entirely amusing that nobody in US politics actually wants to take credit for an improving economy.'
T3/r7/2014-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'instead of "humorous" perhaps "ominous" (and drop the "entirely", ycch)'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'If we were really rejoicing in the death of one millions mobs, it would be a triple, not a double'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'notice in a gun store window in Texas: "I like my guns like Obama likes his voters: Undocumented"'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'can illegal imigrates vote?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'seriously?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Magish: '...wat'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the supreme court keeps striking down laws demanding photo id for voters'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'makes it difficult to check the id of voters'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'don't you have to put your name and info and stuff like that to vote?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't have to be real'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i wonder how many illegals vote ?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Magish: '...so there's nothing stopping someone from voting like 100 times with fake info?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vilmer: 'the amount of illegal immigrants that would vote is probably too small too bother cracking down on it. you could take a dump on their porch and they wouldnt even risk calling the cops'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, but i do know that studies have found voter fraud sufficiently large to play a significant impact in elections where the runners are close'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what with illegals voting, dead people voting etc'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'could happen in both sides of the major parties'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'what percentage of the population votes?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but dont forget voting fraud is a major felony in the US and all'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'varies, here in the UK turnout can be uner 50%'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'voter fraud in the UK tends to be centred around cities with large immigrant populations'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'block voting/family voting etc'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absentees'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'how many people like obama?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Zade and Vost, and that's about it'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and all the faux-intellectual sandal wearing extremists, and the welfare classes'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then all the rich snobs and nice but dimwitted people vote republican'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i think you might have a bias?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'also what's faux'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'faux = fake'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'lol i was thinking fox'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i have a bias, i hate political parties'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be banned'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'where's the debate ? O_o'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you want to debate about?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'lol no me, i just watch'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'btw'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'do you like putin?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not particularly'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'your thoughts on ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's an ex-kgb mafia boss'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'west or east?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ukraine. it's a proxy war between nato and russia and nato are the protagonists'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best solved by giving the eastern parts autonomy'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'and autonomy is?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and also best solved by telling John Kerry to shut the fuck up'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'don't know who john kerry is'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'foreign secretary for the US'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'autonomy would mean that the eastern parts of the ukraine remain ukrainian but govern themselves to a large extent'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, by the way, vice president joe biden's son has been installed on the board of Ukraine's biggest gas company'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'O_o? so this will make putin mad?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it just shows that it's mostly about money, not about freedom'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'so are the US just helping ukraine or just getting oil?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither, they have fermented unrest there since 1991 trying to 'turn it west''
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ukraine was a basket case, it's now headed for 'failed state' status'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'oh so who has been causing all this chaos ?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the above'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'your thoughts on odessa?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'strategically important port in the south west of ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i meant what happening in the odessa massacre '
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also sits midway between russian east ukraine/crimea and russian east moldova'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'happened*'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, pro west ukrainians set fire to a building with pro russians in it'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i feel like a reporter'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're now to a place where there are basically squads of people, some special forces, some fascists, some thugs, some patriots, on both sides, running around killing people'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'added to the mix you've got russian special forces and american special forces'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'woah americans are in this?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'although russian special forces will be masquerading as locals, and the americans sent mercenaries, Blackwater and so on'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'America uses mercenaries in places so it can claim it doesn't have troops on the ground. There are 3000odd of them in Iraq despite there being no American military there'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are similarly large numbers of American mercenaries operating in Africa'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'what do you think of americans? '
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'define: Americans'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'north americans including canada'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're talking about a very diverse set of people'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'oh so like say define europeans?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'ummm'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one thing i'll say about americans is that their view of themselves as a country is about 70 years out of date'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'what view is that?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they see themselves as the good guys, the world saviours, the world's police force'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'oh that'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'like 9 11 was 10 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'truth is they're imperialist, greedy and manipulative capitalists, and no better than anyone else, really'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's what happens when you let corporate and political elite take over control of all aspects of your country and run it for profit'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(personal profit)'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'profit gets in the way of everything :('
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most countries are the same, it's just the nature of things. Then things go bad, wars happen, people themselves reassert authority and it's all good again for a while, then people get complacent, then lazy and arrogant, then the bad creeps in again'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just your standard civilisation cycle'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'technology improves, but the cycle remains the same, and were on the downward slope at the moment'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'where is it going upward?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nowhere'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arguably africa'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'how about where global warming takes notice?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so nowhere then'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i wonder when we will get clean energy'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'feel as though that won't happen'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what won't happen?'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'free self sustaining solar and wind energy'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither could i'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it*'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'everyone should have one when it's efficent'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'or go nuclear'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'incinerate politicians for heat'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'got no more questions to report '
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'going to focus on a goal'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'solar and wind do not constitute green energy solution, you would at the least need to add tidal, geothermal, or hydroelectric. Hydroelectric offers energy storage. Ultimately nuclear fusion is the solution. In the meantime countries should develop distributed green supplies and plug gaps with whatever locally sourced fossil fuel they can'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'yeah... solar and wind is pretty weak'
T3/r7/2014-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is not what is happening here, which is why we have very high electric prices'
T3/r7/2014-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm, so what of EU laws stating Google must delete links to stories about people on request in certain circumstances'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'are the new blue uniforms for the u.s. army stupid ? looks too much like air force  and police to me.'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'perhaps it is about to become appropriate for army uniforms to look like police?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'nah. i doubt it'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Turkish PM and aide beating up protestors at the scene of a mine disaster that killed 280 people'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now there's hands-on politics for you. UK and US have paramilitary police to do that'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and why, exactly, does the department of agriculture need submachine guns with 30 round magazines, especially when they're banning citizens from owning them?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'to protect them from the bugs that they cant kill with pesdicides!'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ambilevous: 'Don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito...use a submachine gun'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'part of their training involves practicing screaming 'It's coming right for us!!'.'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well those are some fantastical reasons, what are the practical reason?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'uprising preparations'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in an agricultural department?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'its all government'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you happy with that?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ambilevous: 'ecstatic'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what can be done about it?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'good question that is'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'at this point a change in leadership probably wont help it either'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't that depend on who the leader becomes?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'doubt it, have a feeling it runs deep'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'deep in what way?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'to many taste and see what they could gain, won't be easy to root out'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what do you think will have to happen?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'one of two things people need to see it and unite or something noone wants to happen'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what something?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'take it back'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given that the only similar situation we have in history to compare with is Germany 1930s, and the people there didn't see it, what hope do ou think you have?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than things getting so bad that it causes action'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'at this point, very little'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how bad will it need to get? armed military on the streets, mass poverty, political activists being disappeared?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'hope not but it may have to go that far, far enough where theres no doubt in peoples minds'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'a talk such as this could last a life time, many things could change  who knows for sure'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think will happen -next-?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'not sure, doubt it will get better though'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'where you from?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'things started here much earlier and have been getting worse much more gently'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but things are far more tightly controlled here'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'so what do you think will happen next? or need to happen?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK or the US?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'for us both'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'probably islamic communism. thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ambilevous laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK they'll be forced to renegotiate with the EU because of anti-EU sentiment, there'll be some pointless naff breadcrumbs thrown but nothing will happen'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will continue to get poorer, the superrich will get richer, more people will end up on welfare, the welfare seekers will be forced to do menial labour'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the US, republicans will win the elections and that will put the patriots back to sleep for a while long enough for everyone to get used to the idea of being the new slaves'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'wonder how much we are willing to take till it reaches the breaking point'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will stick their babies in blenders rather than do anything about it'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so yes, US will be disarmed, you will become socialists'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'don't you mean islamic communists?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, that's birmingham'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'I don't like those choices'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what choices?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what choice is it that you think you have?'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess you could commit suicide if you believe that's a choice'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'US will be disarmed, you will become socialists or islamic communists?''
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the first two of those are inevitable since they've already started'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'islamic feminist communists if clinton gets elected'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'I disagree'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'started is not complete'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're along way down'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they started over a decade ago in the schools and churches, the next generation have been programmed to fear guns and love socialism'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially they need to do nothing but wait to win now'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'agreed its bleak, and its only over when you give up'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, but you need to have a realistic view of where you are'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i think the only solution for the USA is to end the union and split into two countries'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Slethrin: 'every state should be its own country imo'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'don't want to see that but if it needs to be so be it'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one country being the conservative libertarian rural states, texas louisiana alabama utah kentucky dakotas nebraska, idaho, possibly colorao'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and all the other retarded fake liberal trendy socialist braindead zombie nations a the other'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'technically many of the states -are- their own country'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's one of the few advantages the US still has in this fight'
T3/r7/2014-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK doesn't have the same subdivision of geography or government architecture'
T3/r7/2014-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cool, 17yr old won a primary in West Virginia'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, the knives are out for Nintendo because their stupid new lame Tomodachi Life doesn't support same sex relationships'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'O_o?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'it's just a game'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was my reaction, but you know how the communists like to make an issue out of everything vaguely race or gender related to distract everyone from the fact they're all getting financially raped'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'japan is communist?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only is it only a game, it's a shit game designed to sexualise young children'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the criticism isn't coming from japan'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'russia?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, california, where else?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'sarcasm?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'confused'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the game by nintendo, aimed at pre-teens, does not support same-sex relationships'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the blt community is up in arms'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'never heard of this game'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'never seen it'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a nintendo version of second life aimed at pre-teens called 'Tomodachi Life''
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the 3ds'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'gotcha'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just made me chuckle is all'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'so does gay marriage mean anything in a video game?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a game where relationships are part of the game'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nintendo have to consider the 3/4 of the planet's population who aren't obsessed with sticking their johnson up another man's butt'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'did they refuse to put it in the game or just didn'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just didn't'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'think of it'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably didn't occur to them, and probably wouldn't have done because more than half their market would be offended by it'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'well you can't make a game about everything'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'it's probably a bad game anyway'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'don't play'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, nss'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much else too my fancy in today's news, aside from the chinese and americans slinging mud over commercial hacking'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'news from tv or internet?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just the usual establishment scaremongering over terrorism and global warming, growing problems because of inane immigration policies'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you sort of get immune to it after a while'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything important i might have missed?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i wonder if electric cars will be a thing'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't they already a thing among the slightly delusional green activism community?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and the very high end sports car community)'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i don't know, i don't drive'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there are hybrids, which are expensive and pointless and have electric and petrol power'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sports car hybrids which use both'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'people are buying hybrids'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and some pure electric cars which are expensive, polluting, and unreliable'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hybrid cars are a marvel of marketing above all common sense'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would someone buy a hybrid, outside of those state of the art sports hybrids?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'don't know much about cars'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i hear that hybrids are evironmentaly friendly'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'friendlyer'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'not so friendly as to scrap a functioning car to buy one'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there are two things wrong with what you've heard, ksprite'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'firstly it creates considerable amounts more pollution to produce a hybrid or electric because of the battery technology it uses have very toxic mining, fabricating, and recycling processes'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'secondly, a hybrid (or electric) will produce more co2 than an equivalent efficient car throughout it's lifespan in most western countries'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and also what Ontuct said'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'space race?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i remember seeing news about russia's space funding thing'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about it?'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i saw their rocket blew up, but that's pretty normal for russian rockets'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i wonder when we will go to mars'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'with acual people'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'actual'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least, not until there's some kind of revolutionary leap forward in energy/propulsion technology'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ksprite: 'i thought the us were planing to colonize mars with 4 people in like ten years'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i seriously doubt it'll happen, and 'colonize' is a strong word'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were planning to send some people there to die'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that michael jackson performance was a bit creepy'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Watcher Mahon: 'wait till they bring back All the stiffs'
T3/r7/2014-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't very well done if you asked me, they'd cobbled together a holographic projection and used dance moves from a bunch of other songs, so it looked like he was lipsyncing to a different song'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that can't be good news, a supreme court judge has just destroyed the fourth ammendment'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/o9wcz3x'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, for instance that if the police see a 4 year old playing with a gun in a house, that they should have to get a search warrant before entering?'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'gosh that was ungrammatical -- you think, that they should -- otherwise it's an attack on the constitution?'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a retarded example, swalec'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but do carry on :-)'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in your example a crime has potentially been committed, and even so the responsible thing would be to knock at the door. Had you read the link provided, the example was a woman who would not allow the police to come in and search her premises, no crime had been committed. The whole drive of the concern and the ruling is that it creates a grey area where police can use it as an excuse to enter -any- premise and search/conviscate without the need of a warrant, or the need for pursuit'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in legal circles it's called "setting a precedent"'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps impeach those bad judges (and irradicate them)'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'impeach them, kick them out of office, jail them, revoke their pensions'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is obviously trolling and (likely) misrepresenting the facts'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the Swalec example, the "potential crime" committed is that somebody was a "peeping tom" -- the immoral crime that Tigernuts committed was jumping to the inflammatory wrong conclusion that a potential crime was committed - perhaps the child was playing with a toy gun or harmless replica'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a child playing with a harmless fully-unloaded actual gun is being taught to exercise 2nd ammendment rights  - perhaps the close the shades on the windows so as to not alarm the "peeping Tom" politically-correct-incorrect mental retards'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'next, the mental-retard judges may be ruling that (liar) police may search-without-warrant the premises of actors because they saw the actor doing something wrong in a film shown in theatres'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but the alternative explanation is: Tigernuts was trolling and misrepresenting and or withholding the facts'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade starts to hear the faint sounds of a cricket chirping.
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seriously, those bad supreme-court judges require to be heavily censured and removed from office'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "bad" part is debatable though'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is not looking at any obscure links that Tigernuts the troll posts
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Druzil was far more informative than Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think i've found something that explains the existence and behaviour of Zade:'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.ctvnews.ca/feds-eyeing-online-forums-to-correct-misinformation-1.515222'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so zade is being paid to play?'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he plays?'
T3/r7/2014-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in Rhode Island, a middle school is canceling its honors night event because it's too exclusive.'
T3/r7/2014-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Omphalos: 'jerry'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: '"More technological firepower went into the Old Spice shavers & trimmers than the space craft that landed on the moon. Why? Because keeping your head and face hair trimmed is more important than landing on some stupid rock that doesnt even have a swim-up bar, or a pool, or mini cheeseburgers, or recliners. "'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'who writes this shit..'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tyler: 'pls tell me its satirists'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'its straight off of Braun's website, their advertising to get you to buy'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'badly confabulated roleplay fiction (aka geek bullcrap) spoils the enjoyment of science-based folk - hire a professional - some fiction is best left unsaid by amateurs'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I take it you were disappointed by the new Godzilla movie?'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'likely unaware of any movie until dumped in the discount bins'
T3/r7/2014-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'though the previews of some (or a lot of) new movies these days look like fraudulent deception (when the actual movie is viewed)'
T3/r7/2014-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'safe serious cheap addiction?'
T3/r7/2014-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Getting Lasher to cluck like a chicken... What are the chances?? Debate this'
T3/r7/2014-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'wedding, chicken dance, clucking.'
T3/r7/2014-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'amazon is the worst fucking company in america'
T3/r7/2014-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'they destroy small businesses and ruin our artisans'
T3/r7/2014-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'small businesses are also crooks'
T3/r7/2014-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'American's perceptions on wealth are interesting.  For example, the American ideal distribution of wealth is roughly an equitable division between 20% groups, with the bottom 40% having relatively less and the top 20% having relatively more.  What they think is actual distribution has the top 20% having about half the wealth, with the bottom 80% having progressively smaller chunks.  However, how wealth is distributed in reality shows that the top 1% have more wealth than what we think is ideal for the top , and that the top 20% has around 80% of the wealth.'
T3/r7/2014-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'corporate lockdown is a mother'
T3/r7/2014-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'AND WE CAN'T LET BEN RICHARDS WIN IN "RUNNING MAN"'
T3/r7/2014-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'which heaven did mary ascend to? '
T3/r7/2014-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'last I looked she was headed for tao-Ceti'
T3/r7/2014-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sorry, that would be tau-Ceti'
T3/r7/2014-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. 1."Contagion"&"Outbreak", 2."Tom&Jerry"&"Kung Fu Hustle", 3."I am Sam"&"Green mile" - all about suffering and great pain. The 1st is so exciting, 2nd is amusing, 3rd is .. you know. any thoughts?'
T3/r7/2014-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'pain is art.. we need pain. any kind..'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what we need is security queues at US airports to be shorter than 90 minutes'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Well, I have to agree. I once refused one of those TSA scanners on the basis that it causes cancer. I was... "detained".'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they swapped out those machines for different ones, but the queues are still considerable. Compared with Heathrow which took <2 minutes'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i mistakenly tried to take 500ml of juice through heathrow security, shows the difference in attitude - asked him if i could drink it, he obliged, then he threw the empty bottle at a bin (and missed)'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Eh, I started using Greyhound, it's already enough that I have to have 3-4 computers hanging off of my body.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my comparison, US security would be best described as "taciturn"'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DC airport sucks, btw'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i dunno how any English speaker manages there'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'ATL airport is horrible as well. Have to know ebonics, spanglish, and hipster slang just to get through the terminal.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i went through IND, and that was fine'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't think i'd want to live in IND though, nice enough people but too flat and a bit impoverished and dangerous around the edges'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'allegedly it is illegal to buy rolling tobacco in IND'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Heh, I've lived in a "dangerous area" for so long that suburbs are scary to me.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3 shootings during my 10 day stay, 2 on the eve of race day'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the locals are blaming MTV'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mique laughs
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it's more likely just the degeneration of society in general to blame'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Yep, social media has pretty much ruined humanity.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not just social media, breakdown of family units, lack of moral cohesion. Urban culture doesn't help'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Get several guns before it is impossible.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could even argue the debasement of religion hasn't help'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Well religion was always a method of control, so I'm not concerned about religions going away.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not religious, but if as a method of control and support, religion used to stop these dumbarses from shooting each other and generally being a drag on society... and now it's not there.... isn't that actually a bad thing?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'For example, if I were to time travel back to the stone ages with the general knowledge I have now, I could Jim Jones an entire region of people with hardly any effort.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it used to be that religion would give the moral compass, give rules, but also give conditional support for followers. Now it has been replace with government, albeit without the moral compass and without the conditions'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess it depends if you only see religion through the lense of abuse'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jim Jones and Barack Obama are pretty much the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Nah, Jim Jones was smarter.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Obama was just a gimmick as far as I can tell.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i saw a SUV with a window decal on the back window saying "Barack Obama - corrupt AND incompetent"'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'made me chuckle, wonder how often he gets pulled over by the cops'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'He's too busy blowing tax money on family vacations to be arrested.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juubi: 'no one is even debating on this channel, there isn't any devil's advocate'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bask in the moments of unity'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'No one has said anything debateable yet.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Indeed.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't like how that basketball team sale fiasco panned out'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'i saw a drone in a target parking lot'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really is a dangerous precedent when a group of corporates/media can basically force you to do something against your will by arbitrarily having you declared mentally incompetent'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'But yeah, guns... get a lot of them, because they'll probably only have to stage a few more "shootings" before they weasel their martial laws into the mix.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Maybe it was one of those Amazon drones... :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'maybe'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'They're in your XB-1 watching you choke it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, at least i got to go shooting while i was visiting, before the communists ban AR-15's altogether'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'We've already buried a cache of standard arms... 30-30, couple of handguns and shotguns, and a 30-06.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well this was my first shooting experience, coming from the UK where we have none, bar shotguns for a few police-approved farmers'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, i wouldn't choose handguns - i'm pants with them'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'got to play with a 9mm carbine, that was nice'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Maybe a 12-gauge with coin shot if you're not that good at aiming.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Don't really need too with that.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, was fine with the carbine and fine with the ar-15'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those weirdos who say they're difficult for beginners want their heads read'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Yeah the newish carbines are good stuff, but the old ones are difficult, they jam and slam fire a lot.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're mechanically simple though'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Yeah, that's why most of the handguns we decided to stash were revolvers.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, got to play with a 38 special, that was loud'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'carbine really just means it has a shorter barrel than the rifle would typically have...nothing changes with the mechanics of the gun'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Yep.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'my dad just bought a 38 special revolver...yup, very simple'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, abe, but the 9mm carbine was lighter and practically no recoil. bit of an arseache to load compared to the AR15 though'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'I meant the older semi-auto/auto's can be difficult for new shooters, because they generally don't feed as smoothly.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'So you either jam and/or slam fire off the rest of your magazine.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well caches are always good, but what are they for?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'The .38 I had was an old belly gun... basically a dead man's piece, because it has no ejector and the cylinder is a twist-lock.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'It's for when they start taking everyones guns.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'We'll still have ours.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'military surplus stores'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i guess they won't come for the guns in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Heh, you get good deals at surplus.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Plate carriers with type 3A plating for $300.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'yup '
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I've gotta get off my ass and start my collection'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I get lazy living in one of the states which isn't in much jeopardy'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where's that, Abe, Texas?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'PA'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hear a lot about bad cops in PA but not gun control, what's it like there?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'PA's constitution is basically written with guns as a right'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'duplicate of the 2nd, then'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'd say stronger than the 2nd'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is the opinion/direction of your local government though?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'got the democrat infection, neocons, or teabaggers?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no permit required for ownership, permit required to carry...but the way the law is written, when you apply for permit, they must have a compelling reason to turn down or else it's an automatic yes'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Georgia mostly has a lot of right-wing sheep that just do whatever the tube says.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'But we do have guns built into the state law.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Georgia has a good chance of being safe'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'whereas I'm from New York State, and getting a permit there is a whole ordeal'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'state troppers interview family/friends, you don't hear anything for 6 months to a year, etc'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NYC and NYS give the impression of being defacto police states'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Nah, once they start rounding up firearms, I think they'll try to cover as much ground as possible, regardless of laws.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they'll use feds, Nec'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'NYC is much worse than the rest of the state...nobody is allowed permits in NYC except law enforcement and act 235'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with a bit of luck the state/local law enforcement will take up arms against them at that point'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they don't, you're in a whole heap of trouble'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Thus, the cache. :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt they'll move anytime soon or with any great speed. They'll probably wait for another critical failure of the mental health care system to justify another push, in the meantime they'll continue brainwashing the kids to give them a higher chance of success the further down the road the can is kicked'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i watched some childrens TV while in the US, it -is- brainwashing propaganda'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had me scratching my head wondering wtf was going on'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'US has already bought enough rounds of ammuntion to fight 3 WW2's and they are steadily buying riot control gear.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'There is a plan somewhere.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the watchers on this channel are aware of that, even if they don't believe it'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, it's called climate change.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'Just look at all the crazy celebrities the US has, always in the media with alter-ego stories from their days as an MK-Ultra subject.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nec: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v82-MPeCPnM'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'talking about racism is now racist.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'gary barlow'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't you mean Alan Barron, eighth grade teacher in Michigan, who was suspended for informing his students that white actors of the Jim Crow era used to don blackface to portray black people?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that accurate?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'was it in detroit'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I can't see how it's not, I read it on the internet.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when your kids programs promote transgenderism, you know your society's screwed'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'ew haha'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it all went downhill once those sinister folk were allowed in.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which ones?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I already told you, the SINISTER ones.'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'ted danson'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is ted danson?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the actor from cheers?'
T3/r7/2014-06-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alfgarsson: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder why there is always TV coverage of G20/G8 but none of Bilderberg'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'who is Bilderberg?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear Vost has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'reptilian overlords. thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely they were told to stay away'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or maybe reptilian obama and we have to thank the overlords. either way - jews are to blame'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are jews often to blame?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nuts, btw, you would really enjoy 4chan's /pol/ if you don't already. you'd fit right in'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't do that'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what? enjoy things?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '4chan'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor reddit'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, reddit is for ponces. i agree on that'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '4chan is fun tho (depending on the board, of course). i'm sure you could enjoy /pol/ unironically'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would think 4chan has lots of people like Zade on it, which is a good reason to avoid it'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'some boards are like that, yes'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but /pol/ is dedicated to libertarianism, praising putin and talking shit about obama. gun control is fashism, hitler did nothing wrong and jews are behind everything'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i think you'd fit in'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'farage is one of their mascots even. or maybe you're more into bnp?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't subscribe to the whole tribalism thing'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i did i'd watch sport'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go HEAT! *dribble*'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm, a bakery lost a court case after they were prosecuted for refusing to serve a gay couple'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I have mixed feelings on that'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so do i'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, me too'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'for one, why would you fight to be served by a company that doesn't want you? just to  make a point?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's 'liberals' for you'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will accept their culture, rammed down your throat (or up your arse), by force of law if necessary'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'the other side of the coin is that you will have such a atmosphere that you could say I don't like you because.....'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'and regardless of the because you wouldn't have to serve them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they don't want to serve you then go elsewhere'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'but it also seems you wouldn't stay in business very long if you kept sending cstomers away because... lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I have far less mixed feelings about government officials refusing to perform services for people -- like that judge in LA who refused to marry a mixed-race (heterosexual) couple'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government is a bit different'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'never trust a govt to do what is in your best interest'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's next, can i sue a girl for refusing to date me?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'some idiot has proposed that'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'that is justified :p'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what if i refuse the advances of a gay man, can i now be sued for discrimination?'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'that is a little different then a business/govt issue'
T3/r7/2014-06-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could a hooker be prosecuted for refusing to offer her services to a lesbian?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the... how?! How is Alaska 2nd in median household income when sorted by state?!'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'expensive to reside in Alaska - heating and transportation'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not hard to believe Alaska is 2nd median household income - far fewer immigrants and wasters up there'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: '2nd median?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'median income'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I think that median does not mean what Tigernuts thinks it means'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, the median income will usually be lower than the average income, so if the Alaskan median income is the 2nd highest, the average would probably still be fairly high (though probably not 2nd).'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but that's just a guess , not knowing where the stat comes from'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'alaska income probably has notably lower variance because of the things i mentioned'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm fully aware of the difference between median and mean, thankyou'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts did not mention anything believable'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'statistics and demographics clearly not your strong point then, zade'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'anything that Tigernuts says is not believable - even if statistics and demographics seem to concur'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a strawman argument to me'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'monarchies everywhere in europe appear to be running away and pushing "youth" and celebrity'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe not surprising given the rise of independence, seperatism, and right wing parties'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything that threatens the establishment corporate elite is a good thing, even if it runs the risk of being 'right wing' by their definition'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's with this latest trade of gitmo prisoners for some deserter?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'regardless of the situation, I hate seeing someone held captive by terrorist.  That being said, negotiating with them is a bad move.'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unsurprising the neocons are going after the non-negotiation, breaking of the law angle'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were up to me i'd trade back all my captured men, release all the other prisoners and close gitmo, pull out of afghanistan immediately and completely, including the private forces'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/marc-thiessen-heres-what-happens-when-taliban-leaders-are-released/2014/06/02/60eab8aa-ea59-11e3-b98c-72cef4a00499_story.html?wprss=rss_opinions'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should never have captured them in the first place, was against the law to do so'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but releasing them seems to make the situation even worse'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to an extent i agree, but they never should have been captured in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the Bush administration subverted the law and the Geneva Convention to hold and torture random civilians'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, i'm just saying that this is where we're at, regardless of what should or shouldn't have happened.  It's an ugly situation, but trading them for what amounts to terrorist demands is not a good decision.  But only time will tell.'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, vost'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he should just release the rest and close the damned place'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like he promised'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I think that Obama is trying to do that'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with the likes of McCain, Kerry, Reid, and that lunatic Graham, no hope'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't drip feed it, do it in one swoop and suck up the outfall'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the article i linked goes over what happened with one of the leaders that was released a few years ago.  They ended up going on and causing even more problems than they had before they were 'detained''
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think that's the problem, we shouldn't have them, but releasing them is almost too dangerous'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US were still in Afghanistan at the time, so that's obviously an outcome'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pull out of the damn place THEN release them'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'We had no right nor legal justification to invade Afghanistan in the first place, think of all the death and expense it's caused for no gain'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'i think those who supply military hardware have gained quite a bit out of the invasion.'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, they're the ones who part-own the government'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'but i guess they gain either way, eh?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they were genuinely interested in eradicating radical islam, take out Saudi Arabia and Bahrain'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran isn't a threat either, it's moderating internally and if left, will moderate it's governance as the old guard of mullah's die and get replaced'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I"m not sure how you take out Saudi Arabia'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pull out of it and impose sanctions'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at the least, pull out and start denouncing all the crap they do'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just treating them equally and fairly would be a start and an improvement over the current hypocrisy of turning a blind eye to them while denouncing other countries'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure how much oil the U.K. gets from them (I think the U.S. is like 10% or something), but I'd think they'd be in a position to combat sanctions by leveraging their oil production'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite likely, but you don't need economic sanctions'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'true, but that may still cause a response'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in fact, I'd argue that that's part of the reasons people turn a blind eye to Saudi Arabia'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what sort of response will it provoke?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd imagine they'd start turning down production.  Plus, the OPEC nations tend to support each other, so they may also follow suit'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the ramping up of oil production in the US combined with reducing demand across the west, why would this matter?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd have to double check the numbers, but I don't think the U.S. could compensate (well, depending on how sever the response was).'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like you are justifying the support of extremism and hypocrisy out of some semblence of Stockholm syndrome'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no, I just think it's easy to say that we should deal with them harshly, but they have a particular resource that's needed by developed nations.  '
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a big difference between "dealing with them harshly" and "actively supporting them and turning a blind eye"'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'plus, as I said earlier, the U.S. doesn't get the majority of their oil from them, so those affected would be other countries.  Which would be cause a lot of other political headaches'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, yeah, I agree with that'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as the US, that's not your problem'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at the risk of sounding liberal, you can't simply remove yourself from the international community'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't, but neither can you bury your head in the sand and pretend what you've done is great and not change it'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'of course you can, if you're willing to become another north korea.'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything - the reason US is hated worldwide is because of interference and a gulf in what they claim they stand for and the action they've taken'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'North Korea is a great Country -- we should be like them'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but with me in charge'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ugh, I'm not going to call Obama 'Wonderful leader''
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'north korea is best korea'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama isn't Wonderful Leader? WHat's the matter with you, are you a racist? or a teabagger?'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should be arrested and put in a FEMA camp'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but what this really comes down to is whether or not the politicians have the political stomach to go with what your'e suggesting'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the public would support principle leaders above greasy ones'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I'm not a teabagger, so I guess that makes me racist :('
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pull out of afghanistan, pull out of iraq, pull out of bahrain, leave the middle east alone, and stop damned interfering, close gitmo, give pardons to Manning and Snowden and sort yourself out'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's sad, if Hillary becomes president, I'll have to become sexist, too'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and sort out your damned immigration problem ffs'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and sort out your prison system too, ffs, what's with this "locking up black people for getting caught smoking pot 3 times"'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'our prison system is soooooooo messed up'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mandatory minimums and automatic prison sentences are completely contrary to the premises upon which your country was founded'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and mine)'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'the war on drugs is a terrible idea.'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, the way the public judges the success of our court system, and prosecuters, is what their conviction rating is'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'glad we're all in agreement :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that doesn't sound like much of a problem, until you realize that they're under pressue to find a way to make someone guilty, instead of trying to figure out if the person could be innocent'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the UK, i'd like to see a system where only habitual criminals and violent criminals are put in prison'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I forget the article I was reading the other day, but there were people in jail for 10 years for robbing someone.  Now, i'm not saying they shoudln't go to jail, but 10 years for a first offense was rediculous'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I read about people getting major jail time for shop lifting.  Again, there should be a consequence, but simply throwing people in jail doesn't actually fix anything'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why they robbed, who they robbed and what they robbed are all very relevent factors that are not often taken into account anymore'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in fact, it seems to make the situation worse'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, it's a sick joke - we don't even have a jury in most UK trials anymore'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, they're relevent factors if the criminal can afford their own lawyer'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they're not factors if they have to go with a public defender'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well the whole criminal justice system is a big scam set up for the benefit of lawyers and the ruling class'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just don't understand why we've gotten to the point where the answer to crime is simply to throw someone into jail with a bunch of other criminals.  It just seems that there has to be another way'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it makes the whole title of 'Department of Corrections' a huge oxymoron'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'part of the problem is that so many things are criminalised'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh, Department of Defense likewise'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're pandering to Orwellian double-speak'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'mandatory sentencing is also an issue, I understand the desire, but I've always thought that it created more rediculous situations than it solved'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be scrapped'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'now I'm just sad, you've bummed me out, Tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take pride in your opinions'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're on the side of right'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, that helps.  But living in Illinois, it doesn't help much :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, i just spent 10 days in indiana, i doubt it's much better down there'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly nice people though'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'baffled at the absence of rolling tobacco there....'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and just to bring the conversation full circle, apparently Illinois' GDP is larger than Saudi Arabia's'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many of the arabian countries are oil rich, the only rich people are those in charge. The rest of the country is impoverished, but supported by huge welfare systems paid for by the oil'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'indiana isn't a bad state, though you need to avoid a few select cities'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like, I wouldn't hang out long in Gary'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take a look at Yemen to see what happens when that runs out'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gary is a good opportunity for someone with money to regreen it'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'out of curiosity, why travel across the ocean to go to Indiana.  Nothing against our neighbors, but I'm not sure it'd be on the top of my list to vacation in'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think they actually have more corn than we do'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Indianapolis 500'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Ohh, that's cool'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm more into f1, though'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which makes for some very odd sleep patterns for me if I want to actually watch it live'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'F1 sucksst'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they wouldn't go back to Indianapolis Speedway because the walls scared them'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh, well, it does this year'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure why I like f1, but I do'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, it's not like you're in too much danger of accidental spoilers, so there's no real disadvantage to watching it delayed on DVR'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh, yeah, that is kind of true this year'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I keep hoping they might relax the rules slightly.  I don't want to screw over Mercedes, but watching them go 1 and 2 for the rest of the year isn't exactly thrilling'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UCSB Mass Shooter dependant on Xanax. What a surprise. How many more mass murders are going to be blamed on guns instead of a shite mental health system'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can join 95% of all mass shooters since the 1980s'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Barclays are in trouble again, this time over fixing the gold price'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other crazy news, Seattle has approved a minimum wage of $15 an hour'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Yo momma so fat!'
T3/r7/2014-06-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'why Yo momma and why Fat?!!'
T3/r7/2014-06-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, US government is now labelling the people who protested/boycotted the Black Friday sales as terrorists'
T3/r7/2014-06-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ut oh, Miami police are in trouble: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/feds-seize-stingray-documents/'
T3/r7/2014-06-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Allegedly, The feds confiscated documents that were about to be released via FOIA that implicated MIami police in over 200 accounts of illegal premeditated wiretapping and also implicated them in a criminal conspiracy designed to cover up that fact and hide it from the justice system'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yummy, a book bound in human skin found in Harvard library'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'It seems to me that I recall that that use to not be so uncommon'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I want to say they'd use executed prisoner's skins, unclaimed bodies, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh, and sorry about the 20 minute delay in a response, but I figured I should probably shower today :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, was a 19th century book'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think it'd be creepy to hold'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably wouldn't feel any different to leather'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, totally the idea of it, though'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'skin usually doesn't hold ink very well, ironically'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'kidn of creepy that I know that'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, but this is just the binding, not the writing'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, the EU central bank has thrown it's citizens finances to the lions in order to prop up the european rich/elite and corporation/banks by introducing a negative central bank interest rate'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've never heard of a negative interest rate'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the central bank charges banks to put deposits on file there'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'great way to get people to keep their money under the mattress'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, economics isn't my forte, but with a negative rate, does that mean they'd pay out instead of charge?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the regular interest rate was also reduced from 0.25% to 0.15%. This basically means banks will end up charging their customers to have accounts'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ok'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Razkin, normally if you deposit with a bank, they pay you interest for you giving them your money'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with a negative interest rate, you have to pay them to look after your money'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I see'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ok, more ignorance on my part, but does the EU have credit unions? and would that affect them also?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, any banking institution will be affected - their costs will increase'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they will be encouraged to lend more money to the public, something the public doesn't actually need'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they want to do this because they are worried that inflation is too low'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because low inflation/negative inflation is great for public, but terrible for governments and banks'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so the central bank is like our federal reserve?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, a privately owned bank that prints fake money'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what are the nationalities of the (expletives) that implemented this negative-interest'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the head of the EU bank is an Italian'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'EU is several nationalities, the few (expletives) running the central bank are the abominations, and are of specific ethnic origins'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU central bank is a creature of the IMF, which has the usual culprits in charge, American, British, French, German'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a list of names of the (expletives) responsible, then look up their ethnic origins'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Central_Bank#The_Executive_Board'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'apparently, to look at that article, 128bit encryptionb is required'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your browser is broken, then'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, wife called, so I quit paying attention to what was going on here'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a channel history, you haven't missed much bar Zade being racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mique: 'Oh no, say it isnt so, you can't ignore us'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not really ignored, per se'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'more like, forgot about '
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mique: 'oh well that is ever so much better?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and yeah, I check the history, but sometimes that's why I'll respond to things 20 minutes or so after they're said :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, I suppose me ignoring you would be more intentional :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'me too :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes 12 hours after, confuses the hell out of some'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mique agrees with Razkin
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm too easily distracted, I've failed many a quests simply because I forget that I'm doing them :\'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what have you to say tonight, Razkin?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nothing important'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'last surviving daughter of Winston Churchill died this week'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the fiscal and financial incompetence of "Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain" caused difficulties for the ECB'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and also this week a bunch of WW2 veterans parachuted into France, mimicking the airdrop they did 70 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bah, geriatric showoffs, bleh'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hah'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it's cool that people these days are active and able bodied enough to do shit like that at that age, Zade, makes me feel less bad about getting old'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have to say, I don't think I could parachute'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '18+70 is 88 .. hrm  88+ year-olds parachuting -- sounds suspicious or confabulated'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'speaking of ww2 renactments, I was reading something about a ww2 reenactment getting canceled because some of the actors for the german side had nazi uniforms'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were tandoming, zade, wasn't that harsh'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i quite believe it, Razkin, people over here are pretty stupid about such things'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Prince Harry got into trouble a few years back turning up to a fancy dress party in a nazi uniform'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/cancellation-of-wwii-reenactment-because-of-participants-wearing-of-german-uniforms.html'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in Yorkshire'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'politically-correct censorship arseholes causing trouble and fomenting intolerance to gain publicity'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I remember that, now that you mention it'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I'm not a fan of not offending people, espeically when it comes to white washing history'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm sorry, but I think it's important to remember the bad with the good'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absolutely'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'political correctness is going way to far, to the point it almost criples some discussion on important topics'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, i'm not afraid to be political incorrect or to offend people'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but politicians tend to be'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and how do you have a public discussion when the people you elect are afraid to lead those discussions'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think the best way to sort that out is to desensitise people by being politically incorrect and convincing others to do likewise'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, the PC people are doing the opposite to shut down debate'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and make no mistake, that's why it's done'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh yeah'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'may take a while to read and mentally digest that article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Central_Bank#The_Executive_Board'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that there are others to blame other than the ECB'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'who appoints the members of the board?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, the IMF, TC, BB, CFR'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, you guys said that they were of different nationalities, so is it each country, do they vote, does the board itself elect new members?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'is it the shareholders?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'They are appointed "from among persons of recognised standing and professional experience in monetary or banking matters by common accord of the governments of the Member States at the level of Heads of State or Government, on a recommendation from the Council, after it has consulted the European Parliament and the Governing Council of the ECB'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'within which you should read, "they are appointed by the EU council"'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whom are not elected nor democratically accountable'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I must have missed that'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, on a "racist" note, did you notice that the financially incompetent countries "Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland" are "less white" than the competent countries'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the day to day running is based upon that executive council + the head of each of the euro-zone national banks'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there is -some- national input, but bank heads tend to be corporate cronies/IMF/CFR insiders anyway'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hadn't paid it any attention, Zade, Europe is a melting pot of Slavic, Goth, Viking, Moorish, alsorts'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I need to become a hermit'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've gone through bouts where I completely stop reading the news because I get so frustrated'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but of course, that's not an answer'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, sometimes wise, Razkin'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but putting your head in the sand ultimately only hurts yourself'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the research for evidence whether there is a "God", and where "God" is putting in the most effort, a statistical observation is "the darker the country, the more finanncially incompetent the country"'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh dear, Zade's gone God on us'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there may be a few exceptions or anomalies in that observation '
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder, though, if those statistics aren't skewed by the African Continent.  There's some horribly run countries there, but I"d argue that it has little to do with race, but more to do with their history and access to resources'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the case of Africa, that is race and the fact that the savage brutal murderous violence of dark africans murdered of most of the (dissenting) intellectuals'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'leadership in Africa was based upon the premise of: brutally murder off the dissenters'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tribalism'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and "dissenters" are usually the "intellectuals"'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, any oppressive regime will go after dissenters and intellectuals, the best way to control a group of people is to keep them uneducated and uninformed'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but on the plus side, Africans are great athletes'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA is doing a good job of that atm, Razkin'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU/UK not far behind'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'an how'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and tha tis'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sigh, can't type now'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but great athletes are usually not great decent political leaders'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, the irony found in our '
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'transparent government is almost funny'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if it wasn't so sad'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I was promised a more transparent govenment, but instead I got the NSA'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who promised you that?'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Obama'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're just saying that because you're racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because he's blackish'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm also un-patriotic'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'academic intellectual upon gaining political leadership usually start off okay, and then they also go incompetent (because intellectual training runs out in the new siuation)'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'on the bright side, after 6 years, some people are starting to suspect that , just maybe, Obama's administration might have a small amount of responsibility for the current state of the country.  But most of it is still probably Bush's fault'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd point to special interest groups in fascilitating that change, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'especially when most politicians want to get re-elected.'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's been going bad for 40 years or more, but particularly since 2001'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but it'd be refreshing if someone woudl go into office and simply take the approach that regardless of who's fault it is, it's now their responsibility'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama is the combination of two oppressive ethnic groups: african (dark brutlity) and oppressive european (white brutality)'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is just a gangsta'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some say that the Obama administration is corrupting and misusing the American laws to oppress those that dissent with the Obama opinions and agenda'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's pretty clear'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'those people that say that, end up getting audited by the IRS'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and put on 'no-fly' lists'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so that is more statistical evidence that "brutal oppression" is in the genes'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the human race is based upon racism (no ifs and or buts) (the "environment" apologist excuses are mostly obfuscatory and minimal)'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'compare the success of the Chinese in the Americas to the failure of the Africans in the Americas'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the possibility of the existence of "God" complicates the analysis'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade looks for the dirt and at the dirt
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'OOOOOH, BURN!  More Americans say George W. Bush ran a more competent administration than Obama does.  48 to 42 percent, according to a Fox News survey.'
T3/r7/2014-06-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'More americans prefer Pepsi to Coca-Cola according to a survey conducted by Pepsico. Duh.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, a San Antonio, TX school banned sunscreen.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Just to teach the peons who their masters are, or did they give a reason?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they claimed toxicity and medical/safety reasons (kids sharing stuff that could cause allergic reactions, or acting foolishly and someone gets it in the eyes)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'then they should ban kissing, too :>'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'and lunches, no peanut butter for sure'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'butterfly kissing is the cause of a very rare eye disease...'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the school's policy says kids can leave the sunscreen at the nurse's office and go there to reapply, but that doesn't really work for field trips.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'US schools have some of the most ridiculous rules i've ever heard :p'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i guess all those funding cuts are showing their effects'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'part of it is how litigious we've become'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the one rule they don't have is that students should wear bullet-proof vests...'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or perhaps funding isn't relevant and it is a natural result of chaining dumbing-down practices over a couple of generations'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no need for vests, since we can't bring guns to school anyways.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it might be better if students wore tinfoil hats..'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, so all those shootings were done without guns, I get it :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think Hanslanda was being sarcastic :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they should do a FCS on every student when they come to school :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'So we are back around to the reasoning behind it. According to the Skin Cancer Foundation: "One blistering sunburn in childhood or adolescence more than doubles a person's chances of developing melanoma later in life." Melanoma is the most serious and likely fatal form of skin cancer.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what are the chances of smoeone getting melanoma?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'riiiight, who is going to authorize a law mandating that underage kids get felt up?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, if the chance is .05% before the age of 70, well...'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the nsa does it, so why wouldn't schools :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'there should be enough perverts in congress to get the law passed :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hey, now that's an idea, let's station the NSA in our schools'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'NSA, or did you mean TSA?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ahh, you read my mind, I'm not sure why I was saying NSA'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'for that, all you have to do is give them free cell phones :>'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but now that the cat's out of the bag, the NSA will probably want in too'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'The American Cancer Society estimates that at present, about 120,000 new cases of melanoma in the US are diagnosed in a year. In 2010, about 68,130 of these were invasive melanomas, with about 38,870 in males and 29,260 in women.Melanoma kills an estimated 8,790 people in the US annually.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, but what's the chances of an average person getting it? '
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You could compromise and give them slighty less sugar, then let them get as little or much sun as they want, and cancer rates should remain stable or lower..'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'given how chatty kids are, that'd probably backfire in a big way.  "NSA fails to stop terror plot due to chatty-kids backlog"'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'don't get me wrong, I"m not making light of cancer, it's jsut that sometimes people use scare statistics that aren't as scary as they sound'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Don't worry, just wear your tinfoil hat and ignore the facts, dude'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I read somewhere that a tin foil hate would probably act as a focus for any type of 'waves', kind of like an antenna'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so, ironically, a tinfoil hat would be the last thing a conspiracy theorist should put on'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'But it would reflect the particles'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I forgot about the particles!'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it won't protect us from the Chlorine that the ILluminati is putting into our drinking water to control our minds, anyway'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they could wear a faraday cage...'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'to keeps us all sheeple'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '<--- spent too many rears listening to Coast to Coast'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'err, years, I have nothing to do with rears'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'chlorinated brain cells, that's a novelty.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'ears?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, I take that back, now that I think about it, I think it was flourine people were claiming was used for mind control'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I can't keep all the pseudo-science straight'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'fluoride?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'From the point of view of whoever is in charge, it is much easier to run society if only a tiny minority thinks on their own - you can then put those people in key positions and mostly trust systemic incentives to absorb their criticism.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'fluoridated brain cells, that's a thought :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'fluoride is apparently dangerous unless you put it in drinking water or toothpaste'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'people say that as if most of society wants to think independently, most of the research shows that people are much more comfortable letting others take charge'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the illuminati are more likely using Aspartame and artificial sweeteners to dumb down the populace'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, a lot of chemicals are like that'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'chlorine is deadly, unless it's combined with sodium'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'thinking is hard work, and since you have limited conscious cognitive capacity, your brain has filters to save you from too much thinking'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'who says the population needs dumbing down? Aren't they at acceptable levels atm?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, i've heard the theories on aspartame, too'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'again, too much Coast to Coast'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm screwed, though, cause I use sweetner way too much'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'however, it is sort of hard to deny the effect of a schooling system that effectively kills interest in thinking and learning'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, all joking aside, that is something I do somewhat agree with'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'part of that stems from too many people having their hands in the cookie jar'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it's for their own good, Tinada. Society tends to assassinate free thinkers, so their lives are being saved :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If everyone is a free thinker, that might be complicated'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'true, but what effective ruler would allow free thinking? That would be tantamount to abdication!'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, it is possible to teach people sensible methods of thinking and self-criticism and all that, so that the # of lunatics need not increase'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Exiled To Aphelion.
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that is the main problem I see - a sizable portion of people who think on their own never thought to learn to think properly, and so the results are less than stellar'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'proper thinking is a matter of opinion. You can't develop objective techniques by using the same mechanism you are trying to develop. There will always be a crucial blind spot.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bs'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'all you have to do is look at the history of philosophy, all those people thought the got it right, and they were wrong as are we.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'blind spots of some sort are inevitable, but since there are robust methods for countering/checking pretty much any typical bias or heuristic, it is certainly feasible to get the important things right'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or nearly right..'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the checking and counter-checking will all suffer either the same blind spot or some other.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think the key is to actively try and minimize it, not to expect it to be cured'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'in most cases we are unable to see the flaw because it is structurally part of the thought.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sometimes the answer is secondary to the process.  I'd rather have someone who was actively questioning things, trying to answer their own questions, and try and spot inconsitencies in debates/discussions/etc., then someone who simply was getting answers right'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Razkin.
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'in the long run that is better, in the short run often worse'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Aphelion is wrong'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so getting the right answers is not important. It's better to actively fail that to passively nail it :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, people are trained to answer the question, and not think about the question'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'all you can do is work toward reducing the discrepancies between your constructs and reality'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I know I"ve learned more from getting things wrong than I have from getting things right'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is the counter-example to the crap by Aphelion
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"There will always be a crucial blind spot." is a crap and false assertion (and currently lacking proof) (since there is no proof) (and if there were seemingly a proof, the proof 'd likely be defective perhaps also due to the "blindspot" in the defective proof)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the point, Zade.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'by self-confession, there is a blindspot in the statement "There will always be a crucial blind spot" so the statement "There will always be a crucial blind spot" is a disreputable false and wrong assertion'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the circular logic just strengthens my point :) '
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'weong, Aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is a religion-based proof that the statement "There will always be a crucial blind spot" is a crap and false assertion.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion goes, "Heh."
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so... what if the statement was, 'usually there will be a blindspot in a statement''
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'he argues that  claiming that an blind spot exists is subject to a blind spot. That's fine with me.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bullcrap is bullcrap, rehearse not error'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I think the point is, you're more likely to make mistakes if you assume there isn't a fault or 'blind spot' '
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so you're better off assuming there is, and thus trying to minimize any bias that you might have in your way of thinking'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that is entirely different, Razkin'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you may or may not be successful, but you'll at least be somewhat more intellectually honest'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the problem is that one can't detect a blind spot, let alone analyze it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, which is why I'd suggest assuming there's fault somewhere in your stance, or whatever you're debating/analyzing, etc and try and minimize it'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'perhaps "blind spot" is the wrong terminology.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to assume a priori the crap statement "There will always be a crucial blind spot"  is a heinous logic-error'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'heinous?'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'wow :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd also argue that in cases such as scientific research, this is where peer review comes in (though sometimes the peer review process is faulty, but that's another argument)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in the form of debate, I'd say that simply listening to the other side before you make a counter point will at least temper any blind spot or bias you might have'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'listening is hard to do, though :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'we were talking about free thinkers, not community thinkers which a peer review would entail.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to "keep looking for possible defects" is an entirely different procedure to the shutdown crap of "There will always be a crucial blind spot"'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but part of any meta-cognition would be taking criticism and weighing it against your beliefs'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I admit that using a universal quantifier wasn't the best choice, but I am too lazy to modify the statement.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, it's fun to argue about things like this, but in the end, it just means that I continue to level slower and slower'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I alreayd level pretty slowly'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I leveled once and died twice, a good day for me :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Razkin, "a fool is also more likely to make mistakes if the fool a priori assumes there is a fault or 'blind spot, and or a priori assumes there is no fault and or no 'blind spot'."  (be wary of smug unproven a priori assumptions)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade the logic-nazi dislikes smugly-stated obviously-wrong assertions
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'E.g. everyone knows that saturated fat is bad for you'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'take a valium, Zade :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade gives Exiled To Aphelion the look of death.
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'How about this for bad logic: Our low saturated fat diet recommendations are not working, so we should lower the recommendations even more.'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are genetic and metabolic differences between various ethnic and racial groups -- recommendations are usually voluntary'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'do Eskimos eat a high or low saturated fat diet -- perhaps they disagree with those recommendations'
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade the logic-nazi was insisting upon good-logic meta-procedures (and railing against bad-logic procedure), as different to bad-logic used in specific examples
T3/r7/2014-06-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade the logic-nazi was insisting upon good-logic meta-procedures (and railing against bad-logic erroneous assertions), as different to bad-logic used in specific examples
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, it appears that Chuck Schumer is behind the IRS attack on Tea Party groups, not the IRS or the Whitehouse themselves'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'TeaParty occupy the same political space as (protest/anti-establishment) as UKIP do in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not surprising then that the media here, especially the BBC (the state owned broadcaster) were told to 'go after' UKIP'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone did a great study of the receding of housing stock in Detroit using Google/Bing streetmaps'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'serious loss of property there'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's probably one city we could improve with a tactical strike'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it looks like it's neatly folding in after itself'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's seriously fucked up there'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what happens when you deindustrialise, happened here in our midlands in the 1970s'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welcome to globalisation, where politicians sell their population out to foreigns for trinkets and power'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but as long as you've got cheap apple products to buy, it's all good, right?'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A Palestinian-American soccer fan in Houston was detained by security because the Palestinian flag he took to the soccer match was considered "a racial slur"'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, was a her :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bloody jews'
T3/r7/2014-06-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now taking bets on the las vegas shootings, your two explanations are: 1. Antidepressant medications, or 2. Federally steered plants'
T3/r7/2014-06-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mm, Indiana police apparently now have a policy of stripping all female arrestees so that they can perv over them for several hours at a time'
T3/r7/2014-06-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in slightly less welcome news, Rik Mayall died :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the media and political left are now linking the las vegas shootings with white supremacists, so it's a pretty good sign that the FBI are involved'
T3/r7/2014-06-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what news are we missing while all this fuss is being made over a couple of nuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is currently being buried?'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'two words. Eric Canto. Haha'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Cantor*'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'A math debate?  I'm in!'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tyler: '.999999999 = 2'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'No.'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sure, if 1 = 2 :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'Inconsistent system.'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tyler: 'if 1 = 2, does 2 = 3?'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yes!'
T3/r7/2014-06-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tyler: 'rip maths'
T3/r7/2014-06-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Will ISIS invasion of Iraq see the spectable of the US and Iran fighting on the same side against the US/Turkey/Saudi Arabia?'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'really belongs here, but whatev's.'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Ontario Provincial election was yesterday, June 12'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the incumbent Liberals returned with a majority - at least the f***wits Progressive-Conservatives dropped from 37 seats to 27 seats - riddance to their 30% taxcuts to the rich (trickle down piss on the nonrich) platform. '
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'canada has a problem with it's government passing all kinds of snooping laws'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'such as'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''libs' getting in won't help'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'predicting Federal Elections, eh'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/10/proposed-cyberbullying-law-would-let-police-remotely-hack-into-computers-mobile-devices-or-cars/'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.ctvnews.ca/feds-eyeing-online-forums-to-correct-misinformation-1.515222'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you're welcome :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that means they be "correcting" the misinformation posted by Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i don't post information there, so no issues'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i welcome factual corrections, but opinions and ideology cannot be 'corrected''
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's your feelings on Iraq, Zadeypoos?'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so how does hacking into computers-mobile-devices-or-cars prevent cyberbullying -- unless the proposed law is to permit police do the cyberbullying'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no idea'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a rule, such laws are passed to make legal the illegal spying that they've been habitually doing all along'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'tiger I think they call that a workaround'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the police are permitted to hack into computers-mobile-devices-or-cars prevent cyberbullying, they may plant "evidence" that the hacked victim was cyberbullying'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well the other thing they like to do is announce changes for purpose a) when really it's for purpose b)'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the police are permitted to hack into computers-mobile-devices-or-cars (under the pretense to investigate cyberbullying), the police may plant "evidence" that the hacked victim was cyberbullying'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do that'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the authorities in the USA are already known to plant evidence on websites'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their favourite is to plant drugs in car searches'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they also plant child porn on hard drives for entrapping political dissidents'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are a lot of "automatic updates" these days on computers '
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the Federal elections, i voted for the Conservatives so they'd repeal (which they eventually did) the gun registration laws that the (corrupt) Liberals passed'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'police hacking into a Car and turning off the engine while the Car was turning left in heavy oncoming traffic, that be murder'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tyler: 'link'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Lemon-Aid book reported of car engine turning off while doing left turn '
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a Loony Toons episode did a parody where "Cecil the turtle" working at the cable company, once a week, simply for the fun of causing mental pain and suffering, deliberately turned off the cable service of some random customer, (the Bugs Bunny household was the random target that week in that episode)'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps a "Cecil the Turtle disciple" works at OnStar'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"whose car engine to turn off .. hrm, he is signalling to do a left turn, slowing down, turning, off goes the engine, heheheheh" '
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dangers of computerised cars'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be heading back to a mechanical one next car'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'preassumes "mechanical" cars are yet available for purchase (old cars are self-destructing rust-buckets, unless expensively maintained "vintage classics")'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vintage classic it is, then'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be ok with anything pre 1995, really'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did Zade think of neocon nwo stooge Eric Cantor getting beaten by a teaparty upstart?'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Medieval Jameson: 'you suck all you smart people'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm glad i'm not a smart person, what with you throwing insults about'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Medieval Jameson: 'just had an intresting convo with someone about how the people are better off after our help'
T3/r7/2014-06-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Medieval Jameson: 'i think of it like punishment everyone gets it, it helps you slow down and think about life'
T3/r7/2014-06-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bored of the world cup yet?'
T3/r7/2014-06-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarl: 'I was bored before it started.'
T3/r7/2014-06-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Arist: 'What clans were you in, Kojiro, I think we need some background on your experience.'
T3/r7/2014-06-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Ba'al :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'hook and baal'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what exactly is with USA advertising across central and southern america that they will take any immigrant kids you send their way, along with army bases in the USA being stacked out with them?'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'their education is bound to be better than what the usa has. it's an investment in our infrastructure.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well like a soundbite i did hear, no matter that there are veterans dying on the streets, lets invite loads of immigrant kids and spend a fortune on them, indoctrinating them to vote democrat'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'partisan politics are stupid.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'I had no idea that kids were educated with the blood of vets. Good to know.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, but that's what you get with a 2, sorry, 1 party system'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'The VA problem is a USA problem. Not a democrat or republican problem. The unsexy topics, like public healthcare infrastructure, don't get talked about and don't get attention because no one's going to vote on it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the public healthcare infrastructure has been broken for decades, ever since big business got hold of it'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it won't be fixed by Obamacare'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'When you're a politician, you're number one goal is to get re-elected. Better to fire people up about guns or gay marriage than to talk about how new scheduling software needs to be developed.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'You're falling into the two-party trap. Obamacare and the VA are mutually exclusive. In fact, Obamacare likely helps vets by making it easier to get care elsewhere.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not just to get re-elected, it's to either get re-elected, or pass the agenda you're being paid by your corporate sponsors'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obamacare doesn't make it easier to get treated for anyone'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'I work in healthcare and I can say with absolute certainty that is not true. There are problems with it, but that's not one of them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's good that you work in healthcare therefore it must be you to blame. Obamacare does not provide any more care, nor does it make that care cheaper'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, the only measurable effect from Obamacare will be higher profit margins for certain participating insurance companies, certain participating multinational healthcare corporations and drug vendors, and extra employment for the legions of beurocrats needed to fuck it all up completely'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the number of people who will experience cheaper care will be outweighed by the majority who have had premiums increase, or who have had hours cut as a result'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for those supporters of Obamacare who think a single payer model is great, should try getting healthcare in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'You're parroting republican talking points designed to mislead and outrage people.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've met two people whoes costs have gone down'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not one of the, by the way'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can do better than that, Raded, I live in a country with single-payer national healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'my costs went down'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, now I've met three'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'had to join affordable this year when i started my own business'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'I've worked with hundreds whose costs have gone down. Or gone from no insurance to insurance.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'and it's good coverage'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none of the americans i know have had their insurance go down'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my point isn't that they don't go down, but I know a lot of people who's costs have gone up, as well'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'i'm one.'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that statistically it isn't possible for everyone's to go down'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Margorp: 'people will always complain'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yup, to both points'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Margorp: 'complain'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Margorp: 'people will always bitch'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sticking your military through pointless wars then refuse to take care of them when they get home (after you'd promised to as part of a covenant) is something to complain about'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Margorp: 'I agree it's horrible but congridss doesn't give a damn'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'course not :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tony Blair is getting an annhilating in the UK press again of late. Couldn't wish it on a nicer bloke'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'free publicity - write some memoirs - cash in big'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he already had millions thanks to a cozy relationship with Goldman Sachs'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he is pretty well hated in the UK now, and this latest intervention has only hardened opinion against him'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's Nixon'd himself'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Nixon was a good guy -- except for the China visits '
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Blair is G.W.'s doppelganger or vice versa :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, Blair is a bit better of a PR guy than GW was, just not a proper Labour person'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was essentially a corporate shoe-in'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the opening up of trade with China was a bad mistake'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalism was a big mistake, though you could argue that with technology it was inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hindsight is often 20-20, question is what now'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'free trade isn't ultimately good for everyone involved'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if you really must implement pollution-based taxation, then implementing it in the form of intercountry trade tariffs would be the way to go'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so tax imports from polluting countries at a higher rate'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the theory. in practice frought with problems'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, USA would be up in arms - a UK christian school was teaching creationism in science alongside evolution'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meat is bad for you and bad for the earth, they'll ban it'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that are ridiculous in their confabulations (tertiary syphilus perhaps) discredit themselves'
T3/r7/2014-06-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Tuskegee practice may explain why treatment was withheld from somebody that claims to be colored'
T3/r7/2014-06-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bloody GCHQ'
T3/r7/2014-06-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'GCHQ were taking the piss when they said they were allowed to spy on UK citizens using facebook, twitter and google on the grounds that they are foreign companies'
T3/r7/2014-06-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since when did that make any difference?'
T3/r7/2014-06-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK's health service faces a funding gap of $12bn next year'
T3/r7/2014-06-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2014/06/18/student-accuses-high-school-of-blocking-conservative-websites/'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tonight i'm celebrating England's loss to Uruguay by 2 goals to 1'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what's with all these illegal immigrants being brought over the border?'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is it US has imposed sanctions on Uganda for laws that prohibit men sticking their tackle inside other men, yet puts people in prison in it's own country for smoking pot?'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit fucking hypocritical'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dorky Xantcha: '"No country shall enact any law prohibiting what one may place in one's buttock, but laws may be written to dictate what may be placed in one's mouth"'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put that way, yep, still hypocritical :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Old Testament decrees otherwise'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the USA doesn't follow the old testament'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, it would do well as a foreign policy to mind it's own business'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Russia prohibits homosexuality'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good for them'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so what is Uganda doing that is different'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dorky Xantcha: 'yeah, the US' policy on "mind our own business" worked out really well for Poland and the rest of Europe in the 30s'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would have done fine had you abided by it and not bankrolled the nazi's'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'prescribing some extremely harsh penalties for it -- originally death penalty, now life in prison'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Britain used to do something similar .. the USA and Britain are buddies,  white boys club .. Winston Churchill boasted of walking around the WhiteHouse naked'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was illegal in the UK, it was only socially acceptable for the gentry to rape young schoolboys instead'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still doesn't follow, there are plenty of black folks in prison for life in the US for relatively minor drugs offences'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade doubts that Tigernuts cares (since Tigernuts was cheering for the hispanic jew that murdered the amer-african college student)
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know who you're talking about, which pours significant doubt on your statement'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Forcing a person to be celibate is not the same as forcing them to refrain from drug use. Not even close.'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is forcing celibacy?'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Uganda.'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not, they're criminalising homosexuality, which is not the same'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'oh, even worse then!'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's much the same'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a restriction placed on your freedoms'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'all restrictions on freedom are the same?'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that depends on your personal ideology'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Izocinoc goes, "OK".
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA criminalizes pedophilia and childmolestation'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since they cannot be equated, then yes, they're equally important'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA criminalizes male-adult sex with underage females  (statutory rape)'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a consequence of a legal system that decides a child cannot give consent, Zade, it's not quite the same'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA is "oil buddies" with Saudi Arabia -- and those some of those rich shieks like their females young'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole supporting Saudi Arabia is another deeply hypocritical aspect of US foreign policy, given it was Saudi Arabia that have continued to fund and support Al Quaeda after helping the CIA set it up, and it was Saudi Arabia that fanned the flames in Libya, Syria, and Saudi Arabia that have bankrolled Isis'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll find me in agreement with you there, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take the sanctions off Iran, put them on Saudi Arabia, they're the baddies'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't trust any country that uses a holy text as their constitution'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you shouldn't trust any 'country' as a 'country' isn't a person'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd have to double check, but I think the U.S. only gets like 10% of their oil from S.A.'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA props up S.A'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Nato generally have kept S.A militarally secure'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, but people say it's because we need their oil, but if memory serves, that's really not true'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not, you're right'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's just a handy crutch to shut people up and fool idiot neocons'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have to admit, though, I've never understood the support for S.A.'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it seems to me that even if you work under the guise of trying to stabilize that region, there's better countries, etc. to work with'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the problems in the region come from outside interference, right from the early days with the fall of the ottoman empire'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the stability of the region is best sorted out by the players, but kicking the Jews out of the holy land and allowing the various strands of Islam scrap it out between them is probably the best way'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'too many people lay claim (rightly so, or not) to that region for that ever to happen'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they all happily shared it until 1945'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'blame where it's due, it was the Jew's fault'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'slightly off topic, but it makes me sad when I see pictures of that area in the 20's and 30's, sometimes even up into the 50's'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, my a.d.d. kicks in a lot, and one thing makes me think o another :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but you see pictures of that area not even 100 years ago, and it was clearly on the cusp of being a developed nation/region'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'now...'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder what'll happen next...'
T3/r7/2014-06-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'nothing good, most likely'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm enjoying the lois lerner equivalent of "shredding and burning the incriminating documents"'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I can't even beleive that peopel would go out and claim that they've lost emails and be able to hold a straight face the whole time'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, using that as an excuse, you're not even trying at that point'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't you think it's time congress dismantled the IRS and banned all the management implicated from ever holding federal jobs again?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I would say yes, but if I do, I'll probably get audited'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i won't :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck the iRS!'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'You're now on three 'no fly lists''
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell you what, this is one benefit of the UK with it's tax-at-source - they don't have an opportunity to target 'people''
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'honestly, I really don't know what to say.  It's a mess, and it's not going to get better'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd become a hermit if I could'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but you can't live on public land'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why i always say we're all indentured servants'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that is why people need to understand that governments have a vested interest in making their electorate dependent on them'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unless you refuse to work, and have a load of kids'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if you refuse to work and have a load of kids, you're still a slave'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but you get paid to be one'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'black slaves got paid to be a slave'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't really know what to say, sometimes I quit reading the news because it makes my eyes roll so hard I get migraines'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think I heard that there were something like 6k e-mails lost.  I mean, I could understand not finding a few e-mails (well, not really, but still)'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like, do they think people are going to hear that they lost every pertinent e-mail and basically say,' ohh.. that seems legit!''
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, they probably do think that'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'on a completely unrelated note, did you know that Oklahoma means 'red people' in Choctaw'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder if Oklahoma will have to change its name'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'why'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, if the redskins have to change their name, it seems that red skin, even in another language would be just as offensive'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'i dont get why the redskins have to change their name'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, technically they don't'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'because historically it's a derogatory term'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, and the patent office just threw out their ownership of the name'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'its stupid the redskins are a private business the government shoulnt be interfering '
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which intolerant bigots are saying that "redskins" is an offensive name'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't really have a problem with making them change their name, i just find it hypocritical that we find offense in some instances, and not in others'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, supposedly it's the native americans that find it offense (and i believe they do), but I'm not sure that they're the driving force behind the movement'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'who cares if they find it offensive if they dont like the name they should just ignore it'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, in this day and age , that doesn't seem to work'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'everyone seems to get offended about everything, and then they sue'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the redskins are decen in sports series, then the bigots don't want the name redskins to be associated with anything decent'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think it's scary that the patent office can simply say, 'your patent is offense, so now you can't have it''
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an intolerant bigot in the "patent" office said that '
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sarl: 'http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/anYPLRB_700b.jpg'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's kind of funny'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"trademark" office or "patent" office'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I believe the actual title is 'U.S. Patent and Trademark Office''
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, I think it was the trademark that they invalidated, I said patent'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it was the trademark registration that they invalidated'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I misspoke'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'on the bright side, I believe that means that you and I can start making and selling Redskin merchandise without approval'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with PR spin to redeem the name "Redskins", then sue (those in) the Trademark office for bigotry snd insulting the red indians'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the word "gay" should be banned from polite use and banned from used names, since "gay" is used as an insult these days'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'what about faggot?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'is that ok?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'already a cussword'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'really?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'centuries'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not to drop out of the 'debate', but I'm going afk for a fair bit of time'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"throw another faggot on the fire" when they used to burn faggots'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some hotdogs named redskins'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that the Trademark Office banning "Redskibs" is based on religious principles -- and is violating the constitution on separation of Church and State'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know full well that the US government is a bunch of crooks, you don't expect them to follow the law, do you? that's for the little people'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I sometimes wonder if you really believe your own propaganda'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'remove those crooks from office and severely chastise them'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'remove those intolerant bigots from the Trademark office'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Vost, people go into government for various reasons, included within these reasons is to abuse the position'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that isn't a matter of debate, it's a matter of fact, if it wasn't true there would be no lobbyists, no revolving doors'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you believe all politicians are altruistic and never do things for financial gain of themselves, their paymasters, then you're a bigger fool that you sound'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't believe that, of course, I have the advantage of living in Illinois'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the UK cabinet it's property and banking'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my state gave you Obama, by the way'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you're welcome'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'obama is stupid'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we gave the world Tony Blair'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and Piers Morgan'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'who ate those people'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Piers Morgan isn't British, he's Martian'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'no, we gave Blair to GW Bush'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Explosivemud: 'who are'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'wasn't blair out the other day saying that he had no responsibility in Iraq, or something like that?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I could swear I read something along those lines'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's always pushing some kind of bollocks, Razkin'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Blair only did what he was told'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, unfortunately, I only know what little I read here'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Blair was also the architect of UK's financial downfall in 2008'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'your only source of political information is the Tigernuts channel?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as well as penning some truly awful liberty-crushing laws'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh, no, sorry'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but that was kind of funny'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just mean whatever comes through the American media'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though now we have Aljazeera, who I think does a better job than people give them credit for'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, less biased than MSNBC'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Obama is less biased than MSNBC'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but yeah, a lot of the news is either MSNBC or FOX'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will always get bias in news'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you believe that the news channel YOU watch is unbiased, you're probably Vost'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but some networks don't even try and temper their bias'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost chuckles at Tigernuts's joke.
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you want to know about Blair, anyway? He took the British Labour party (left wing workers party of unions etc..) and took it to the centre'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'throwing away pretty much any ideology or principle with it'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know what it's like in th U.K., but at least here, it seems like both our parties have gone a little too far to the extremes, and maybe would benefit from being pulled back towards the center a bit'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aside from burning tax payers money faster than an out of control oil well fire, he also ruined the further education system and opened up the country to unlimited immigration'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both your parties are centrist, razkin'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you think so?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, you couldn't get a fag paper between democrats and republicans on 90% of topics'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think they try and play to a centrist theme, but it just seems that their actions speak otherwise'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that 90% is all the stuff they're completely wrong on'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'if only you had become a politician, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the world's economy would be perfect'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i'd become a politician, i'd probably be in prison, or shot'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'only if you came from Illinois'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'have I mentioned I hate my state'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd not be a good politician because they wouldn't like me calling other politicians wankers'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'of course, according to the polls here, I'm in the majority when it comes to that'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move, razkin?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've been trying to get my wife to consider it, but she doesn't want to'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'she likes her job, which I can understand'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'unfortunately, we keep moving closer and closer to chicago'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'euw'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move to Montana'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, they're one of the few states with a growing economy.  Last time I read about it, they struggle filling all of their jobs'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not a bad place to move, imo'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not too many people and nice countryside'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've read about some companies in Montana that actually provide fairly nice moving bonuses to people from out of state'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if I were single and just out of college, I'd seriously consider it'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there's much worse places to live than Montana'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not many states nicer, i'd imagine'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Welcome to Illinois: Where our governors make our license plates. '
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't they also run guns and the black market for drugs?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, I think our most recent governor is serving time in Denver'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'british politicians are a bit more careful'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and everyone says that the last 3 out of four governors are in jail, but I'm fairly certain only 2 are currently incarcerated '
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, Illinois politicians are too blatant about their transgressions'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'personally, I think our state motto should be 'Illinois, Land of Nepotism''
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which will the USA get involved in first, Iraq, or Ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Iraq'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'someone posted on my facebook that he was going back to iraq after being retired for 2 yrs'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'personally, I think our government will sit there and wag their finger at the Ukraine situation, but I don't think we'll do anything meaningful'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'that they are sending 200k more men over there'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Invite Tiana: 'like now'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to Iraq, Tiana? they're keeping that quiet'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it did amuse me that "intelligence" saw 3 retired obsolete tanks move into ukraine from russia, yet missed a 5 mile column of arms and fighters move from syria to iraq'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were Obama, i'd stay well away from both'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe sell Iraq some weapons, after all, only fair that you arm both sides'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'are you just trolling ?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it was sarcasm and dark humour, but not trolling'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trolling would imply i was deliberately saying something inherently dishonest or inaccurate to create a reaction'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'or to just get attention'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i stand by what i said as being the truth'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless of course ISIS are toting forged russian US stinger SAM missiles, forged russian humvees, maybe it's all a Iranian plot to destabilise Murica, right?'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I thought Iran wanted to fight Isis'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I don't think it wants to fight, but will if it needs to. Iraq's prime minister believes Iran has ulterior motives, however'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does look like it might become a proxy war between saudi arabia and iran'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with Iraq being carved up into 3. I can't blame Maliki for being a bit pissy with the US and Iran about it'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(belated observation) as a debater, Tigernuts distorts the "fiction" (trolls dubious facts) and is crook, so as a politician, also crook'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to get elected as a politician these days, usually requires a lot of cash support'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll have to do a bit better than that, Zade old boy - if you're going to accuse people of lying, then you need to at the very least point out what they were lying about'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but do carry on'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tony Blair and the other politicians were apparently able to subvert the Labor party (according to Tigernuts)'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps those with rich deep pockets were able to pay for politicians to pretend to be "Labour", and they took over the "Labour" party '
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was desperation because thanks to the unions, labour were unelectable through the 1980s and early 90s'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want a bit of background on it, look up the miners strikes of the 1980s and the IMF bailout and winter of discontent in the 70s'
T3/r7/2014-06-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the party wasn't subverted so much as debased, throwing away their principles for a shot at being elected. A bit like the republican party'
T3/r7/2014-06-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '4 justices of the US Supreme Court recently held the opinion that it's okay to buy a gun illegally (ie, not revealing that you're buying it on behalf of someone else).'
T3/r7/2014-06-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and the other 5'
T3/r7/2014-06-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's arguable whether buying a gun  on behalf of someone else constitutes a crime at all, hence those 4'
T3/r7/2014-06-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from what i understand they are only going via the regulation of purchasing because that's what's within their remit'
T3/r7/2014-06-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a more sensible idea would have been to have a system of licensing'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are so many people in congress wasting their breath demanding impeachment?'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'i vote jail time :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'it says right in there somewhere that u have to be born of american soil to become president.. and where was he born again?'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in Hawaii.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'no he wasn't :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I delivered him personally.  Yes, he was.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'thats just what he told everyone'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'LOL sure u did'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are you saying you don't believe in angels?'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'not in the way most do :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'if his mother was American, it wouldn't matter where he was born.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Deyanira: 'u r correct but she wasn't now was she.. and neither was his dad :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK prime minister was born in a test tube, i fear'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after the week's news, the weekend has been a bit of a letdown'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, i guess there's yet another "we need a tax on sugar to curb obesity" story, the BBC runs about one a week'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'why not a curb weight on people, tax the people who have a poor bni'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'bmi'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Soylent green!'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because neither sugar nor being fat is grounds for taxation'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'What if you have free healthcare?'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'why is being fat any different then any other vice?'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'excellent, tax the obese'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sturma: 'Anything is grounds for taxation when you just want to generate revenue.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Well, there's a huge alcohol & nicotine tax.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'adding the tax to the price of the item is farm more apt to change behaviour then adding the tax at the register.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tax the obvious trolls in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'so you need to tax the raw sugar to up the price of a can of coke, not tax the coke.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I think it depends whether your goal is to raise $ or to change behaviour'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about you leave the sugar and coke alone, and instead teach nutrition in school'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cleff: 'can of coke already has no sugar for exactly that reason. it has high-fructose syrop instead'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'because teaching things in school works soooooo well now.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'want people to change, make them grow their own food.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, they seem far more interested in teach kids about gay sex than teaching them how to eat healthily, i guess that's what happens when the left get hold of education'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'glass-bottled original Coca-Cola (circa 1975) is healthy and good'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'and organic tobacco won't cause cancer'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lies, Ontuct'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk posted new figures that show a 300% rise in Crohns Disease in the under 25s in the last 10 years'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps "Logan's Run" euthanise the old crones'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've seen the quality of kids these days, i'd save the crones and kill the kids'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the old crones are a symptom of aging '
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the causes of Crohn's disease aren't really understood'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are heavily implied, however'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they use to be, but current research seems to be going against that trend'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'they have tried numerous times to tie it to Johne's disease but can't bind it to it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'more like, stress and diet seems to aggrivate it, but not cause it'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/crohns-disease/basics/causes/con-20032061'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the has been an epidemic in the number of people developing intolerances to different foods, a lot of it has to do with an over-clean lifestyle, and adulterated food'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but that's fairly speculative'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a speculation I tend to agree with, but still speculative'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Crohn disease is suspected to be allergic irritations from food, and a lack of vitamin C and E'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not that speculative, chrohns disease is an immune system disease, as are things like food intolerances and hay fever'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, which is why they've moved away from it being caused by diet, and more aggrivated by such'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'circa 1970, those in Britain required a prescription to get vitamin C '
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are reliance on a certain type of wheat is causing major problems, even worse when chemical companies start tweaking it'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, with the immune response, that's one possible explanation, but I don't believe there's any conclusive evidence that that's the reason'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though it may be one contributing factor'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wansn't implying a cause, only what it effects'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ok, then I'd agree with that, but even still, it may not be ubiquitous across all peopel with the disease'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'affects dammit'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'either way, going back to the original comments, taxing people for being fat is silly, and taxing the products/etc. has a poor history of changing behavior'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it has never been required to have a prescription for vitamin C in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree, razkin, and in addition, they should fuck off micromanaging people's lives'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Crohn disease is an indication that the British are genetic defectives (or British food and diet and the environment is grossly defective) '
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I might be overly optomistic, but I do believe people will act like adults if you give them the opportunity'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but there's too many people out there that want people to act all the same'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the genetic connection to Crohn's is tenuous at best'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'while your chances of having it are very slightly more likely if others in your family have it, mmost people who develop it don't have a family history of it'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I get concerned that it's a condition more along the lines of Cyliacs or Autism, where the diagnosis is somewhat subjective to the doctor, and actually comprises a larger group of conditions that simply get dumped into one category'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like 'depression''
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'absolutely'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my wife works with children severly impacted by autism, as I've learned more and more, I've become rather vocal about the subject :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, certain aspects of it'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's gorgeous out, so I'm going to go out on the motorcycle, later'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I should go out on the bicycle, but that's decidely less fun'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Easy Rider" was a bad movie because of the ridiculous ending'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'peter fonda was "born to be a moron" (to the tune of "born to be wild")'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a fan on motorbikes, then?'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the movie "Easy Rider" was obviously a plot to discourage motorbike riding'
T3/r7/2014-06-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obviously'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a slightly morbid article: http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/item/18541-dictators-worldwide-demand-aid-empowered-un-global-socialism'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://everythingisracism.com/'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it looks like the EU renegotiations are dead. UK are almost certain to pull out of the EU in 2017'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'I'd prefer it if they didn't.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm somewhat removed from the situation, but it seems to me that the whole EU thing has been very slowly dissolving'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but again, I only pay attention to that in a passing sort of way'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'I'm pro-EU. Well, pro the idea of a EU atleast, the actual implementation needs some work.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it's not dissolving, if anything the federalists are further turning the screw'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'And the UK leaving will deal a heavy blow to it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest argument has been over the appointment of the new EU head'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, again, I dont' pay huge attention to it, but it just seems that there's always a lot of grumbling'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well good, ceriq, it's a horrid idea and is best disposed of'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'I think it's a great idea that's terrible in it's implementation. Kind of like communism and child labor.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Little shits have no sense of quality control.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Nike disagrees'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU is a little like them attaching a vacuum cleaner to to your wallet while moving criminals into your house without permission'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'I'd say maybe accepting romania was one of the worse things they did..'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and poland'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'The countries in the EU need to be equal BEFORE you open the borders between them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why it failed economically, ceriq'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Or you'll get a huge migration of people seeking their luck in other places. Kind of like what happened.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't address the democratic deficit'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but is a jolly good reason not to be part of the EU, all the same'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what features of the EU appeals to CeriQ?'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Free trade.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'The idea of a Euro.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both those things are outmoded in the global age'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither require a political union'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free trade", where the middle class of the richer countries become as poor as the middle to lower class of the poorer countries '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'free trade is a stupid concept'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you actually want is free-ish trade'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'non-free trade is just a tax for not made here, in an attempt to make locally produced but inferior produce be more cost effective.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or it could be a tax on externalities'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or a tax designed as an interim measure to buffer the gap between disparate nations'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"free trade" is moving jobs elsewhere so that middle-class citizens become poorer '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not it's purpose, though it is an effect'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's purpose is to allow multinational corporations to exploit cheap resources in other countries'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what about fair trade'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'Well that could be said about most any thing.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because 'fair trade' can mean anything'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't buy stuff because it's fair trade, or seek out the label if that's what you mean'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being knowledgeable about a supply chain and wanting to support quality local products is important to me, however, which is like a patriotic version of fair trade'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there are many cases in which trade might not be considered "free" or "fair" and each case has pros and cons for the world economy'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'indeed, however, trades that skip large corporations i tend to prefer'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as should anyone if they actually want local jobs'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Agreed Tigernuts. I like buying locally instead of finding the absolutely cheapest alternative on the internet.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'It might save me 10 bucks in the short term, but it'll kill my local shops if I keep doing it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately not always possible these days'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea but you are a small economy'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'internet is fine '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK is not a small economy'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I personally try to only buy US grown food'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, that doesn't guarantee you quality'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have the lowest food quality standards in the developed world'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but for certain products that are not even made in the US i dont see anything wrong with finding the best price'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well since you make almost nothing in the US, that's just about everything'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The El Drakoth: 'that's debateable tigernuts. have you ever eaten a hot dog in france?? :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said developed world. We don't consider France to be part of the developed world'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'tiger certainly entitled to his opinion '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but US does remain one of the largest food producers in the world'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't doubt it, it's just a shame your federal government keeps siding with some pretty dodgy chemical companies and legislates against your little farmers'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure that the idea that the U.S. makes anything is true, seems to me that last time I checked we were still had one of the largest manufacturing industries in the world'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'doesn't make anything, that is'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'US makes alot too :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you make, then?'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what don't we make?'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The El Drakoth: 'lots of industrial equipment'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well i happen to have USA made dress shoes'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't make Levi's in the US anymore'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's ok, I don't wear levi's :D'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'electrial equipment, oil, vehicles'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tomatoes are horrid these days, red on the outside, underipe-raw-white on the inside, attempt to sit them until they go ripe, and the red outside develops a green mold, and even then partly underripe on the inside, and not that sweet either'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'supermarket tomaoes are no longer sweet but tart'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jun/23/june-manufacturing-pmi-grows-faster-expected'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'umm i still think some levis are made in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.nam.org/Statistics-And-Data/Facts-About-Manufacturing/Landing.aspx'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in 2013 spent $440bn more on imports than they sold in exports'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk is no better, $90bn'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, and that definitely affects the economy, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a large manufacturing industry in the u.s.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smaller than it used to be by an order of magnitude'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK was the same, hence the Industrial Revolution and all that'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something else we invented :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'the dollar weakening helped'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh yeah, I'm just saying that people always act like the U.S. doesn't make anything, or that the manufacturing industy has disappeared, and that's just not true'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'plus growth in other countries'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the bulk of consumer items though, you don't make them :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither does the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all in opposition to the concepts of living a low-pollution lifestyle that the UN and green sandal wearing trendies keep going on about'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally think that if you want the world to go green, a certain degree of isolationism is required'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e, ecologically friendly living is not compatible with globalised corporatism'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'which is why the right pushes against any EPA influence, carbon taxes, and other like measures here'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"the right" always will, as will "the left" when it comes down to it'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, EPA, carbon taxes and other measures have nothing to do with the environment'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'don't disagree with you there'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, the idea behind carbon taxes is that it would force people to clean power, I don't think things like that have a good track record, but still'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'any more than taxing cigarettes will make people stop smoking, etc'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a blunt and authoritarian instrument'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to achieve a stupid end'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they want green energy, invest in it'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ok what did i miss durring doub'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'channel has history'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you don't explain your "cute" opinion (EPA nada to do with the environment), you seem nonsensical (perhaps "1984" style), since EPA is "Environmental Protection Agency"'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'EPA -- "Emissions Protection Agency"'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the primary purpose of their regulations are to screw over the little people in favour of corporations'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any secondary benefit to the environment as a result of said regulations is just a happy coincidence'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the proper amount of taxes on polluting nicotine products does reduce consumption and pollution'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'yeah, compare smokers in Kentucky with smokers in NY.. huge difference'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no data, so not comparing'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure why the US would be taxing cigarrettes when it doesn't pay for smokers healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least in the UK they can argue the tax money goes to pay the health bills (even though it overpays the direct/indirect costs twice over)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'theres something tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'second-hand pollution is annoying'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'all those cig taxes should be because of health externalities'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'same thing about taxes on booze'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with arbitrary taxation of things for social policy reasons, but a proportionate tax on drugs to pay for their externalities seems OK'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there is nothing wrong with some taxes'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the smell of some drunkard boozing upwind is also annoying'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's plenty wrong with many taxes, though'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'property taxes for a start'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'death duties, stamp duty, employment tax'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what about them'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all bad taxes, especially the employment tax and property tax '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'that is your opinion'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the puropse of taxes on nicotine-consumption is to reduce consumption (the proportionality to healthcosts is irrelevant when fortuitously greater than the the healthcosts)  side-stream nicotine pollution is annoying'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(purpose)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i like cooking with garlic -- but what if you were downwind'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, had to go afk, but rom what I've read, the effects of taxation on nicotine seems to have an affect on youths, but marginal impact on adults'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'cooking garlic smells great, people that smell like garlic, not so much'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'public awareness and teaching have caused smoking rates to drop'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sort of thing takes 2 generations though'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so at best, it may act as somewhat of a disincentive to start, but that'd be about it'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and yeah, I'd put more weight on education than on taxation'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tax is because they can get away with it'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I have to think back, and through a bit of afkness, but I think the original point was that taxes are dicey at best when it comes to altering behavior'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and even more so when  it comes to predicting how the behavior will change'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'employment tax seems particularly dumb if you're trying to get your unemployment rate down'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but if smoking is correlated with an increased demand for healthcare if all else remains the same price of health care will go up for every one. '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'higher prices do alter behaviour - i no longer go to movies'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not saying that it doesn't later behavior at all, but it doesn't work across the board, and some people are willing to accept a higher financial burden than others'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'is an addiction like smoking as discretionary as a trip to the movies?  Plus the viable alternatives to the movies.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'social engineering using tax is a big no-no, from an ideological point of view'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which is why it probably is very effective with teenagers, and early twenties, and much less so with adults with full time employement'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might as well impose slavery'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, once you give a government the ability to tax, they're not going to give it back'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if somebody is rich (or in a job not yet farmed out overseas), "extra financial burden" is piffle'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, Iraq lost the ability to tax 1/3 their country'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Even if it was 100% effective, I'd be concerned with giving the government new ways to tax '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so did Syria'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but when the middle class becomes poorer, "extra financial burden" is going to affect decisions'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but predicting how is dicey'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'personally, I think people are much more likely to give up travel and going out then they are to give up addictions'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the addictions are killing, every disincentive may be of assistance to reduce the addictions'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, apparently the elderly and hispanics have also noticebly lowered their nicotine usage as taxes have gone up'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what makes it the job of government to intercede in addiction cases unless asked?'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the addiction of overeating'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '15% for both since 2008'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'Zade's point on it being a public health risk and increased health costs'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats only an issue if the state pays the health bills'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or if it's somehow a spreading disease'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is on the topic of reducing public annoyances
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hah'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot reduce public annoyances without getting rid of the public, Zade, surely you've realised this by now'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'just to be clear, I don't smoke, and I personally do think it's disgusting.'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'what about the Zombie virus'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and I do not smoke, but i support people's rights to'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, then you have to put the power to choose what's an annoyance and what isn't into the hands of someone else'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which is usually the government'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure I want the government decided what annoys people and what doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'human history shows that the human race likes to reduce public annoyances '
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if governments didn't force people to be lived crammed in together then Zade wouldn't be upset by people smoking nearby'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there is no Zombie virus'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so either reduce the public annoyances "peacefully" or else!'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'peace or die!!'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'there's no zombie virus, but there's plenty of people that study how a zombie virus would work, since it's really just a epidemic/pandemic'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I for one would like to welcome our new, ebola overlord, btw'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i dunno why they're claiming Ebola is an epidemic when it's barely killed 400 people'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, the concerning thing is the mortality rate and infection rate, they don't really consider the actual deaths'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's Ebola, it isn't that bad'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I want to say the mortality rate is something like 80% if you catch it, and the infection rate is also incredibly high'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krionis: 'isn't that normal for ebola?'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'something like 4 people infected for each person who contracts it'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm not sure on that, but I do know that it's historically been incredibly high'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'typically it burns itself out, I think one of the major concerns with the current one is that it's in more inhabited areas'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty easily contained'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'once you know it's there'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we know it's there :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's got a long gestation period, though'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'something like 20 days, and you're infectious during it'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps Tigernuts is disappointed that the "ebola epidemic" was contained'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'zade, sometimes you really make me laugh'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was calling out media mislabelling, Zade'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't think it's even really Ebola, itself, that people fear, it's the idea of these types of diseases that just seem to pop up , have high mortality and infection rates'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'with the idea being that it's only a matter of time before it hits an urban area and explodes'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't do a lot in the west'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but in the urban UK ..'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'probably not, but that's where you call in the global warming advocates'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the idea being that tropical disease will move towards the poles with global warming'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well dump it in London and let's see what happens'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which brings us back to carbon taxations!!  Booyah!!!  I managed to pull that full circle'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'by the lack of response, I'll take that as an idication that i've won Debate Channel'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which is good, because the wife just brought food home, I was afeared I'd have to cook'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that wasn't a full circle, but i was noting on the news atm is Polish politicians being totally pwned by "criminals" that leaked audio recordings of them dissing the british'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is the dissing accurate though'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much, albeit snake-like because he wouldn't say it to the PM's face'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'at this point, I have to remind you that I'm from Illinois, I know all about politicians getting caught saying things they shoudln't'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'along with selling things they shouldn't'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'like senate seats, and driver's licenses'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'smart, the politicians secretly leaked the recordings and blamed some "criminals"'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm sure there's a pot and kettle joke in there somewhere'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'almost reminiscent of an episode in the the bbc sitcom "Yes Minister"'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27973473'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same polish minister also called agreements with the uSA worthless and said that poland gave the usa a blowjob'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I'm reading it right now'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Poliand admits to giving out a BJ to the USA  -- but which party was doing what'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'personally, I think this is what's going to come back and haunt him 'The problem in Poland is that we have shallow pride and low self-esteem''
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Cameron should have said "fine, we'll leave the EU and you can take all your fucking plumbers home'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'out of context or not, when an elected politician starts showing utter contempt for his own people, that never plays out well'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, unless you're Obama'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well rules don't apply to Obama because he black'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and as we know, http://everythingisracism.com/'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is indeed'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's ok, though, I'm racist too.  For instance, I want to end racism, but since I'm white, that makes me racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack's mother was from ..'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you want an end to discrimination, Razkin, and that makes you racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so let's just let the democrats get back to their own roots and be the party of the KKK'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that say they are "not racist" are "extremely racist"  (deceived, deluded, perhaps brazenly liaring)'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're racist, zade'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yep, and so is "God"'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now give all your worldly posessions to an illegal Mexican immigrant and shoot yourself through the head'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rev 21:8'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come back to us once you've solved the financial and social ills of the world'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'most religions abhor muder, as long as it's murder against others of that same religion'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'bleh, can't spell today, but still'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "law of nature" includes symbiotic racism'
T3/r7/2014-06-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'although when there is an epidemic or pestilence or famine or seemingly not-so-symbiotic racism -- perhaps the cruel mother, Kali, is adjusting things'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'for his walking around without guards?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'finally, a federal judge rules the US no-fly list violates constitution. Unfortunately due to the unique way the US government currently ignores it's own laws, they won't do anything about it'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Theresa May, the UK home secretary, rolled out a bunch of well practiced lies, claiming there was no surveillance state in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no programe of mass surveillance and no surveillance state, which puts her at direct odds with statements by Charles Farr, director general of the office for security and counter terrorism, and at odds with leaked documents from Snowden and others'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if you say something enough, people start to believe it'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody will believe it because they know she's a liar'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'worryingly she's also most likely to succeed David Cameron as leader of the COnservative party'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'do you really think nobody will believe it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be like having a lying bitch running your primary political party, like Hilary Clinto....'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, I hate to be cynical, but humans have a pretty short term memory'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some believe it, but they're mostly very stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'then the key is, are there enough stupid people to keep her in office?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for now the direction of travel is towards truth on that score, hence they -had- be going down the route of "yeah, we're spying on you, but ISIS is dangerous so we need to"'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course there is'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it always seems to me, that in cases like this, it unfortuntely depends on how the media handle the situation'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if they keep it in the public eye, then people won't buy the lies'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is the UK, our media is essentially state run, so they'll shove spying down our throats and say it's racist to not want to be spied on'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'if the media gives her a pass (like they do with the Clintons), then the'll forget about it'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do give her a pass'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, then my guess is it'll blow over'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which is sad'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then bring on massive asteroid collision or other huge natural disaster'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know that we'll be that lucky'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'massive nuclear disaster/attack?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'maybe'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'since everyone keeps going on about the Cold War returning'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it's returning, it's like the west dragged a large fridge over to Ukraine, opened the door to face Russia and shouted "Hey, Putin, you're a faggot!"'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Tiger, I have a headache, making me laugh is making it worse'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've had a headache for a fortnight thanks to untreated tooth decay'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to the unique way that the single payer national health service runs here in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Ugh, I'm lucky and don't have to deal with that, but my wife has to get a tooth pull in a week'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'she's been in pain for months, so I feel for ya'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you have to wait to get it fixed?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'or they simply won't treat it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a long wait'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then charged for it on top of that'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ahh, I'm sorry'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'tooth pain is up there with back pain'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i get a lot of both'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, mostly untreated thanks to the wonderful single payer state-run national health service we have here'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'how long is the wait to get in?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to get into what?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, to get into a dentist, or oral surgeon'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i got an urgent appointment, 6 weeks'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that kind of goes against the definition of 'urgent''
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that -is- urgent for national healthcare. Some of the diagnostic tests in hospitals there are 18-52 week waits for'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some stuff, like chronic back problems, you just don't get treated'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll prefer to stick you on anti-depressants instead of getting to the source of the problem (oh, and they'll charge you for those too)'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it's a national health service, you see, it's free at the point of requirement'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'isn't one of the fundemental ideas behind a universal health care the idea that preventative medicine will be more available?  And thus, drive down cost and potentially wait times?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the tortured mind of an over idealistic socialist'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reality is quite a bit different'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it usually is'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reality is that if you have a serious accident and need surgery, or have one of a handful of "tickbox" monitored conditions, then it's great. For chronic illness and day-to-day stuff it sucks'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we'll be finding out here, fairly soon, what our premiums will be in 2015'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and costs 1/3 of the entire government budget'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we being most people'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'On the same vein, it seems like universal health care represses the use of more experimental treatments'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will tend to because of the cost'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which might not sound that bad, but for someone who's exhausted on the tried and true treatments, it can be important'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthcare here is metered on cost, even though they claim it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so expenisve = long wait?'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'expensive = no treatment, for the most part'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not to get depressing, but what about things like cancer, etc?  That can be expensive, and treatable'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'death sentence, as a rule. They'll fast line you chemotherapy and all the other poisonous treatments that don't work, but all the natty new treatments, problably won't get em'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have reasonably good palliative care'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly because it's heavily backed by charities and philanphropy'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wouldn't say that chemo doesn't work (I know someone who's life it just saved), but it's incredibly rough on the body, and not everyone can go through it'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'though I also know a couple peopel who went through it, were ravaged, and it didn't send the cancer into remission'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'very blunt tool, not very effective, and there are better reatments out there'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it's always seem to me to be a desperation treatment.  They guy that i know that just went through it was in stage 3'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'when he found out, that is'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so there was a sense of urgency in treating it, but it seems to have gone into complete remission'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but of course, this kind of brings us back to preventitive care'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no preventative care for cancer'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, screening'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd kind of call that preventative, though I suppose maybe that's not the best term'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is some pretence at doing some screening of older people here, but it's pretty piss poor and not likely to do a lot'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, there's some screenings that could be potentially life saving, but I have read lately that many of the screenings simply lead to un-needed procedures'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I suppose there isn't really a good answer to that'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the mass screening of women for breast cancer lead to a huge spike of unneccessary mastectomies'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm ambivolent towards it, really'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i don't have an answer for the health system, other than them just facing facts that it isn't a free system, and perhaps doing something to make it fairer, like making what care you DO get free rather than fleecing workers, and maybe restricting the scope of free care in other ways'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, have to go afk for awhile'
T3/r7/2014-06-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Is the UK talking about banning people born after 2000 from buying cigarettes?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Please someone, explain to me why the 99% slobber over each other to give their money to the 1%'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not heard of that, Malkar'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Arnica, it's less "give to" and more "have taken by"'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well that died down fast.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, your supreme court actually did something right'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'whatever discussion was going on.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there wasn't a discussion going on'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what did the Supreme court do?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my apologies for the assumption.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'declared unanimously that the police -cannot- search a person's mobile phone or mobile device without a warrant'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's great, no reason why they should check otherwise.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Wonder what would it take for all countries to implement international law for digital crime?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll never happen'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what they're working towards is a single world government under the UN with everyone disarmed and monitored constantly'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'since such an idea is absurd, it's never going to happen.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a single world government just doesn't seem feasible.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so is there effective method to combat digital crime?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such an idea is in their plan and is already coming to fruition via the EU and NAFTA'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what digital crime are you trying to combat?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'scams, hacking, slander (maybe?), never really given much thought to categorization.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll never solve scams because there is a neverending supply of arseholes to scam people and suckers stupid enough to get scammed'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hacking will always be an arms race between hackers and defenders'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are already slander laws that work appropriately, not really a digital-specific issue'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a recent article by the BBC claimed that 29% of police time is used dealing with complaints that have a basis in Facebook'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for me that's good reason to ban Facebook'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as I can see, it is impossible to commit a bone-fide crime on Facebook'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'same ought to said of most social media, it's pretty much the greatest weapon i've ever seen.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's a rather grey area.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'anything else happen that's controversial or worthy of debate?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'does the treshold for oppression change with the general populace?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i mean, are certain cultures simply more inclined to rebel? and some more inclined to be complacent?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cultures change over time. our western cultures have been poisoned by tv/celebrity and a culture of dependance ont he state, we will not rebel'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why they let huge amount of economic migrants into our countries'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '"economic migrants" lol i like that'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a technical term, elchanan, people who move country for financial gain#'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'rofl you think'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'personally i would say for economic gain'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we saw it in the UK, it's screwed us over quite nicely, and you're seeing it accelerating in The USA with Mexicans/central americans'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but i guess that could be argued against since in economic equilibrium there are no economic profits.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just that there is more profit available without equilibrium'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what you just said makes no sense.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is more profit to be had in troubled countries, disasters, wars'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'cost = benefits defines economic equilibriums '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'thats because economic equilibrium does not exist'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'when there are shocks to a system it can be knocked out of equilibrium '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'putting into context though, the system wins every way when they import impoverished foreigners'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but those are risky operations too'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it suppresses wages, making margins higher, and the dependance entrenches the welcoming government'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they're risky, it pisses off the populace'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'destroy institutions like health care'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'causes crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'the system cannot win! its the system. It just exists and some times changes'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, then the current wielders of the system further their agenda and more deeply entrench their power'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '"all the worlds a stage and all the men and women merely player" shakepear'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elchanan, that's kind of a technicality, since the goals of a system are set by the leaders of it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'true but anyone can play a part in the system if they choose'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, that's not true, Elchanan'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well not exactly they all do play parts just they can set goals as to how big their role'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'sure it is'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm excluded from my country's system not out of choice.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a disingenuous statement, Elchanan'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how do you figure jop'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'because the most i can do to affect it is blow it all up.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what state ment is "disingenuous statement"'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(Debate) Elchanan: 'true but anyone can play a part in the system if they choose''
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and how is that not true'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not so much about truth so much as an impracticality. People cannot play a part in the system without either joining the bad side of it, or be destroyed by it, that's why the system is such a problem'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can try to change system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like playing a game where your odds of winning are so close to zero that in all practically you cannot win'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot change the system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'you dont have to be against system to change it'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, the old "be the system to change the system", it doesn't work'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look into the abyss, you become the abyss'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the system is the one ring'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'why not... i can think of cases where ordinary people have implemented change  in a system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'changing it from the inside is pretty hard unless the system already has methods in place to change it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ordinary people cannot change the system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'by destrying it and implementing their own.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the system is deliberately set up to prevent it'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well every case is different US the system can certainly be changed by any individual'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've given it considerable thought, the only way of doing it is to set up your own parallel systems, but those systems will come under attack from the system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US the system certainly cannot be changed by any individual'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'certainly can'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the US system would need to be changed simultaneously by around 150 million people, or by a small group of people with infinite funds'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not cynacism, it's just a realistic appraisal of the situation '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well since that's how you think then you would be the one who tries nothing. and that will be your part in the system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the days before the feds strangled state sovereignty you would have needed significantly fewer people/money'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'cynicism wouldn't be the term, rather pessimism. but i see the point.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'countries with smaller populations likewise require fewer people/money'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could say i already play my part by pointing this shit out'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i was getting to that actually tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i don't try nothing, but the logical conclusion is that without the system itself being destroyed, a new system cannot be set up nor the old changed without majority support.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and by not supporting the system and not going along with it'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's just self evident, isn't it Jopari?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the majority support mightn't come as the majority in a system will always be benefitted.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'que?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but then you seem support the view one can not change the system and that does not help the system change if many people take up that view'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well jop in the US the system was built off concepts of majority support'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but this common view unites the people who have it. the majority support is always reasonable, until the exploitation of the minorities becomes extreme.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you seem to be under the misapprehension that because i believe you cannot change the system with your vote that i wouldn't vote'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its not just the vote'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i will constantly be trying, i just don't expect to win.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto, jopari'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its the ability to change other peoples vote'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the vote isn't all he's implying.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll never win the ballot box because you are always going to be outvoted by idiots'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah, mostly just selfish people.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and idiots'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in my country the majority is given discounts in many things, i don't see them giving that up for me and the rest of the minorities.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and idiots.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and to encourage the pontification of Ideologies and their potential impact on societies'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elaborate, please, not quite getting it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that's a helpful comment, Elchanan'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well we were talking about how people can change a "system".'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can't :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and that was you response '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but when we broke it down you agreed with many ways a person an impact a system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'influence!=transform'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can* impact'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'who said "transform' in this debate'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who said impact'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I did'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said change'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'impact and change'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'impact == change'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'impact!=change!=transform impact==change==transform'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all imprecise measures'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wow.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its a mater of degrees so to speak'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i agreed that change can be done, but that the chance of it happening are nearly nil.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what i said is also a matter of degrees, drasticly different degrees.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the chance of enough change to satisfy undoing all the bad and making stuff good is even less likely'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I think effort and degree of change are correlated'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so with no effort nearly nil'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yes, but 100*0 equals 0'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think of it in terms of physics. The 'system' is an object (or evil) of very significant mass'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is moving in a direction chosen by the ruling establishment'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the things that individual people can do can impart force on that mass in a direction of their choosing'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but thanks to momentum, you need millions of people to make the speed and/or direction of the system significantly deviate'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then the amount of deviation required for 'goodness', is also another problem.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless either of you have a way by which a person or group of people can obtain messianic power'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or the ability to brainwash. (always a perk.)'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's the rub, the only people who have that kind of power are those in the system with that mass'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence my approach of telling the system to fuck off and try and disassociate myself from it as much as possible'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what ever dude said my part. People can and have impacted/changed systems. trying to provide more proof should be non-essential.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some proof is absolutely essential'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'you can look at wars through out history, campaigning for peaceful changes and some not so peaceful.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's kinda essential if most common sense says otherwise.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'prohibition then non prohibition in the us'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'fall on the native american indians'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in modern western society there is nobody'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'revolutionary war of the USA'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they all ended with either former system destroyed, a newer system created, or the old retained.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many have basically sacrificed their lives and nothing really changed'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'USA civil war'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'end to segregation'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Snowden, Manning, and Schwartz being the latest examples'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'Gay marriage is a big issue now'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so is stem cell research   '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'old out, new in, just because a country retains it's name doesn't mean it's the same.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'cloning'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'the core which is the constitution has remained'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay marriage isn't a big issue at all, just the media make it out to be'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and  interpretations have been "refined" for lack of a better word'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well sure it is tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in some places around the world what would happen is someone were gay'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'isn't that a different 'system'?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not the issue in the western world that the media make of it'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I would answer "hate crimes," and hate crimes have been directed towards gays in the US'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay marriage is what's known as a "distraction issue"'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'different yes i would say its changed even tho a good portion of it remains the same'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'kind of like an isomer or isotope in chemistry'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hate crime is a misnomer and a non-issue, either it's a crime or it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ie the original system is not destroyed'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'perhaps, or maybe it's a deviation caused by the millions of people who caused a significant but slight deviation.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to call something a hate crime is merely to try and stick a wedge in society, to exacerbate an existing difference and make political capital out of it'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no tiger its to specify a class of crimes'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'murdering someone is murder, if you killed them because they were a christian then that is a motive, but calling a hate crime is totally irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elchanan, honestly, i've never seen people be sensitive about an issue until they are told to protect the sensitivity of it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Jopari.
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'racial tensions, gender tensions, ethnic tensions were all created bt the governments attempts to make the minority not be discriminated.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unless they didn't want them to stop being so.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the net effect is to increase tension between those groups'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the reason is you're treating them differently, drawing attention to the difference'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hate crime is therefore a label.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'which is then used as a justification by the more bold or whiny to get more rights and protection.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i dunno about rights or protection so much as more nanny-stating, more inequality'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well if you con random people shoudl you be treated differently than some one who only scams one group of people'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nobody scams a single ethnic or race or religion, only the same type, the stupid and the arrogant.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you reckon?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you read anything from SPLC?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'read any missives from the jewish lobby in Washington?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I think it has happened before...do some reaserch should not take long to find them'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the IRS vs teh TeaPArty'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it happens quite often, really'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, nearly all of the instances are perpetrated by, you guessed it, the system'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but only the stupid and arrogant get scammed. Though i guess i misunderstood the sentence.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my apologies on that.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's true that online scams only trap the stupid :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like i think you should treat a person that just goes out and tries to pick fights slightly different if they are doing do bases on a set of criteria. and well fighting and conning are similar on many lvs'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'be leaving, it's 3 a.m. here, mornin.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'online scams can be directed'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not really, but meh.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what sort of fights are we talking about? there's a difference between someone who goes to the pub and deliberately breaks a chair over an innocent person, and a person who "fights" to right perceived wrongs'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'not really worth debating the targeting issue. its fairly obvious by chatting on debate the target audience is people on aardwolf with debate chan ON'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so if you were to hack a certain religious organizations site your target would be'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would you hack a religious organisation?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's difficult to see how hacking a religious organisation website would be a legitimate or justifiable action'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'why not tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come up with a situation when it would be justifiable then'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'gather personal information from a targeted group of people, then use that information for a huge list of crimes that could be commited against them'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'does that not count'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would have to do that without hacking'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because any evidence you gain from hacking is not admissable in court'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'wtf hacking is allready a crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea i said you CAN direct hate crimes online'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i said "hate crime" is a pointless and divisive description of a crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no its not'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure why suddenly we got to a point where you're advocating hacking into a religious organisations' website for some perceived egalitarian purpose'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'two wrongs do not make a right. An eye for an eye is bollocks and what differentiates barbarians from decent people'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'notice that wahabists believe very strongly in an eye for an eye'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '[25 Jun 15:18:38] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's true that online scams only trap the stupid :-)''
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what has online scams got to do with hate crimes?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you suggesting that sending out emails pretending to be a bank in order to con people out of their login details is a hatecrime?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well your the one who brought up online scams'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was Jopari'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it could be a hate crime tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or someone before him'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what motivated it is largely irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'motivation might be relevent when deciding punishment, but it's not relevent as to whether it is a crime or not'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ok well thats why it would be called a hate crime because motivation is different enough to classify the crime differently'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so its useful to say certain crimes could classify as hate crimes.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '(Debate) Tigernuts: 'motivation might be relevent when deciding punishment, but it's not relevent as to whether it is a crime or not''
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'until you get up to situations which have names of their own, genocide, matricide, deicide'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'that statement agrees with my last'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I think differently then.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can think of no crime where adding "hate" to the front of it makes any difference to whether it's a crime or not, neither does it alter it's seriousness'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it does not but that does not but if punishment for a crime that is directed should be different than a non directed identical crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'then classifying a crime a a hate crime because of that direction is usefull'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hate crime is philosophical.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'useful only to sociologists'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a criminal trial it's actually a hinderance because you are prejudging'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's the job of the jury'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'why are you prejudgung'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'jury would have two things to determine'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'was a crime commited and two was that crime a hate crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because at the point of trial, the government, police and judge have already decided that it is a more serious crime than it is'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hate-judging then'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's as bad a corruption of the judicial system as mandatory sentencing'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and juryless trials'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'umm well not if hate crime is the truth of it'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to mention all the damaging sociological problems that arise from having such definitions as has already been discussed, it's a divisory tactic'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'why is it damaging'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it divides people'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'to tell someone hey if you go out and assult someone youll get punished'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it exacerbates differences and inequalities instead of treating people equally'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and hey if you are assulting a targeted group of people punishment will be worse'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, that's not it at all, it's saying "go out and murder someone you'll get 10 years, go out and murder a jew you'll get 20 years and be branded a hateful racist"'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no i wont tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'maybe you might but no I'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you (should) know full well that the term "hatecrime" has been abused by establishments to shut down debate'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the same way "racist" has'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all used to steer an agenda'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'One could argue coherently for some very restrictive types of 'hate' crime, I suppose, but it is a slippery slope, and in the cases where relevant evidence is available, pretty much all civilized legal systems allow for so much tinkering with a sentence that there is no practical need'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'nothing wrong with good and just agenda, but then you are gonna argue that the agenda is unjust or not good, and i right?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'unless you want to signal that some groups are more worthy of protection, perhaps'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot signal that groups are more worthy of protection because of everything i've said, tinada, which is why we HAVe these problems'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because governments HAVE deemed groups worthy of more protection than others'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK "Mothers" are one such group'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its not that they are worthy of more protection its that inorder to have equal protection there must be an awareness so to speak'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'there is hardly any good scenario for that kind of signal, no'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: ''reverse' discrimination is still discrimination and so on'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, tinada'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and honestly a person guilty of a hate crime might technically be guilty or two crimes in a way like i mentioned before.  '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it might be interesting (in the Chinese sense..) to see reactions if the US population woke up one morning with a complete understanding of the effects of all sorts of affirmative action.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but this is not a case of reverse discrimination as it is used when describing "affirmative action"'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'affirmative action, someone needs to be shot for that'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(not literally shot, but in a comedy sense)'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You can't sell it as PC groups > you..'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'naw tiger it worked at the time and its being removed in places and that might continue'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what worked at the time?'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'affirmative action? failed blatantly in the UK and has been outed'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'various types of aa 'work' in the sense that they increase representation/income/wealth/whatever for the group they are promoting'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or at least for some group members'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from what i've seen, AA causes ire and degrades quality of a workforce'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'a lot of aa boils down to attemps to deny/counter nature, and in that respect it is bound to mostly fail'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nicely asks Tigernuts to be more quiet.
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'no talking about externalities'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what it boils down to. People who seek AA generally don't understand the problem'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the problem is a shortage of female army generals, the solution is quotas'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods quietly to himself.  What a wacko.
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I dont know if affirmative action got people thinking hey we hire based on ability and reliability.....'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, shortage of females in parliament in the UK, they tried all women shortlists. They lost, or left. What they failed to see was women don't want to be politicians here'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'then i would say that is a sucess'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion . o O ( the current female general officers are not line officers anyway.... )
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my dept at work consists of 9 blokes and 1 woman'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that said, I think weak form aa (priority in case of clearly equal qualifications, like same GPA) is tolerable.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we had to implement a 50/50 hiring policy the group would fold because you could not get adequate numbers of suitably qualified, suitably compatible women to take the role'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'sounds effective'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's unlikely you'll ever being making a choice solely on GPA, Tinada'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'this isn't about qualifications, it's about pc and justice and unicorns and kittens!'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, for admission to Norwegian universities, only gpa counts'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about the state jamming it's infected, spiked cock up your arsehole'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'university places are not jobs though'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'on the other hand that might encourage women to become more competent.  Women are less competent not by nature but because there hasn't been any incentives to be so. '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that is so amazingly true..'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women have equal opportunity now, and that's all they need'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'with all due respect, that is bullshit.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'women are more/less competent in some fields because of biology/culture in various combinations'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not bullshit, it's written into law, APhelion, here at least'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'And that depends on your definition of equal opportunity. In theory, I have equal opportunity when it comes to winning the high jump competition in the olympics, but in practice I'm not tall enough to qualify.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have equal opportunity to qualify'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are biological imperatives/limits on things, hence the law states that you can't "unfairly" discriminate on grounds of gender'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'pound for pound, the generalized woman will not beat the generalized man in physical activities, and that is fine since most work requireing exertion is not of the extreme kind (i.e. construction).  Be that as it may, intellectually, women give no ground to men so there is no excuse to place them in a secodary role in non-physical venues. '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I just have no realistic way of acquiring the required competence. And while less extreme, many AA fields face similar problems.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think it's a problem for the overwhelming majority of employment fields'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It is too late to start the discussion of the gender-adjusted IQ tests and higher moments of the probability distributions'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..or for that matter bad methods in personality measurement'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'working in a company consisting almost entirely of postgraduates, i would question whether IQ by itself is a meaningful measure of competence as a functioning, rounded person'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not really, but it sets limits to certain types of cognitive potential'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've never set much store by IQ tests'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'ie. threshold effects and learning walls when facing close-to-research-frontier issues'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Tigernuts's question.
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I am not talking about IQ tests. I have met many professional women. When discussing topics with them they fall into the same categories as men do. Either they know what they are talking about or they don't. If they were to write the answers to my question without me knowing who wrote them, I would not be able to differentiate the respondent by sex.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'most variation is explained by other factors, certainly'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'high iq bitches are the most annoying of them all. avoid at all cost:p'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, Hwuaijijal'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'not meant "bitch" as gender thing..'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the plus side: http://www.mediaite.com/online/epa-hires-consultant-to-tell-them-that-pooping-in-hallways-is-bad/'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taxpayers $$$ hard at work'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a council next door to mine paid a industrial corporation $50m NOT to build a waste incineration/energy generation plant '
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and the people who elected the council  let them, so don't blame the council.'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they people who elected the councillors didn't have a choice'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they weren't elected on a platform of "we're going to piss your taxpayers $$$ up the wall"'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(oddly)'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but guess what, the guys who signed a contract whereby the penalty for pulling out was $50m were part of a major political party, and if they themselves never get elected again, members of the same party will. Such is the issue with party political system, bringing us full circle back to the massive momentum that the 'system' has'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'knock knock, Neo'
T3/r7/2014-06-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'growth down 2.9% in Q1? That's not good :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'weather has been shit for weeks now. thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-06-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm, Russia agrees to sell planes to Iraq immediately, Syria helps Iraq by bombing Isis, Obama 'helps' Iraq by asking congress for $500m to train and arm Isis. How the fuck does that work?'
T3/r7/2014-06-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you ask that as if us arming and training people has ever gone wrong'
T3/r7/2014-06-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hmm, GOP support is running so high in Mississippi nowadays that black democrats are casting their votes in republican primaries.'
T3/r7/2014-06-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The El Drakoth: 'air condition is not necessary'
T3/r7/2014-06-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was awesome, Hanslanda, and now they're trying to cover the conspiracy up because the beaten guy's campaign guy committed suicide because he got caught trying to take photographs of his opponent's bedridden missus for a campaign video'
T3/r7/2014-06-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'plans are in place in Spain to tax bank deposits'
T3/r7/2014-06-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'minimum wage in the USA, $7.25? minimum wage in the UK $10.30ish, what gives?'
T3/r7/2014-06-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'holy crap, in the US child labor is still legal in some sectors of the economy!'
T3/r7/2014-06-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The El Drakoth: 'most notably in the tabacco industry'
T3/r7/2014-06-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'yes, or no?'
T3/r7/2014-06-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'maybe...'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mm, Dolly Parton's playing Glastonbury with an autotuner'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'she should have done a duet with Metallica.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Honestly, Abelinc blames Cher
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fucking hate Cher, what a bitch'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish believes in life after love.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'If she could turn back time'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she'd still be a bitch'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'autotune's a neat tech when used normally, but the overcorrect bastardize of it sucks moose balls'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people don't notice, i'm a musician and it sticks out like a sore thumb'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I dunno, I really liked Autotuning the News'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'do you have the intimate knowledge of mooseballs required to make that comment?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, pretty much all people notice that'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fine, let me rephrase: It doesn't bother most people'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I'd disagree it bother's me and I'm NOT a musician nor do i play one on tv'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's good to know, ontuct'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welcome to the community of right minded people'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than the catastropic US border collapse, and the US fighting itself in Iraq, what news?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'but I also dislike 90% of today's pop music, so I might not be a great judge'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you dislike 90% of today's pop music, then you have better taste than 90% of people'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'This is the part where we decide that taste is in fact not subjective at all.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it isn't :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'World problems all solved.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, but if ideology, morality, and law aren't subjective, then neither is taste in music'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's your favourite colour?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'The same as everybody's should be'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Because that isn't subjective.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Infrared'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'We can now get back to the more important things like scrubbing bacon grease off of our kneecaps.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Because Tigernuts has solved moral philosophy.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have bacon grease on your kneecaps? why do i only have bacon grease on my arse?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quantum Anaristos: 'I am partial to ultraviolet :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Haha'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like ultraviolet, but it's racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'How so?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Untrviolet is hot!'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I love female ass-kickers :>'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you love people who kick women's arses?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'wahaha'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that would be women ass-kickers\'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are women not femalse'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'certainly, but this is a point of grammar :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are there women who are not females?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'One's that get sex-changes'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'And now the debate channel will become a debate channel... I foresee it...'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then they are not the sex they were, and are the sex they became'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did you want to bring up, Sacheverell?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Eh?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'when nouns function as modifiers they do not have the same effect as adjectives :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a woman doctor is a gynecologist, a woman-doctor is a female doctor :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't blame me, i didn't invent the languages'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Wait- what? Who brought that up?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but you don't mind omitting the hyphen :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Ah I see now, never mind.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do mexicans want to leave mexico for usa when their soccer team is far superior?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Swim team'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Sorry, had to'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'wading team, you mean. The Rio Grande is like the L.A. River :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Ah, yes indeed'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they don't wade through there any more, they get free tickets given em by US Border Patrol/Homeland Security'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah really. And 'they're taking people with children ya know''
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Except that they aren't.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm aware'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'They're just taking everybody'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taking in a large number of immigrants who are used to a considerably lower salary is a stupid idea'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'or maybe it's a great idea'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'have you ever seen picturess of Ellis Is.?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'different age, different context'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'there weren't too many people there of higher income...'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was no welfare and no overcrowding, either'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure the context was different. Those people  were European.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put another way, they were actively seeking people to move there'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'That is a good point Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'who was actively seeking what?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and they still do, or didn't you notice the influx of (rich) Chinese in the late '90s?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a difference between a country actively seeking immigrants to come in, and a country whose corporate and political elite want to flood the country with immigrants while the entire rest of the population do not'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'which immigrants were actively sought?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'and which ones are not?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in America's early days it was open doors'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'did the citizens want them over, or were they simply indifferent?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I find it peculiar that  the door closes only when the immigration is north-bound...'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: '?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'it seems to me that in fact everyone has always hated immigrants in the history of ever'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sre, jopari, from what is peddled of the time, at worse, short of specific sectaria stresses, people were apathetic or supportive'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if you can find text where the US decries all the arrivals from Europe, I'll be very happy to read it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's entirely different, cheap labour and proffessional labour are different.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'how convenient'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk population rose 400,000 last year'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most immigrants'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah really haha'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'how convenient'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if you can find me proof that most of those from Europe are lacking qualifications, then the situation is relevant.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK overpopulation is an issue for the UK right now'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not really a point seeing as many places are experiencing it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so if you can only work in kitchens or gardens, you are not wanted here... I can understand that. But, who is going to do that work then?  The Europeans?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'The people who already do'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'NZ is quite selective in that regard to immigration...you've basically gotta show that you're needed'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when locals can perform the duties, you don't need to flood the entire country with cheap labour that usurps the locals. '
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Exactly'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no selective immigration here, we let any old terrorist or muslim'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'locals have always been able to perform the duties, after all, it is unskilled labor. But they won't because they feel it's beneath them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm not just talking about gardening. Construction, food stalls, and others are overtaken by the immigrants, leading to alot of people out of jobs because they are used to higher pay.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'And then they kill your soldiers like last year 0-0'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'not overtaken, you act as if it is hostile takeover. They are filling the slots that the locals won't fill.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when that happens, unemployment will likely go up from there being not enough job oppurtunities.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Except that they work cheaper so the people hire them over us'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'not over me'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true, Aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'non-sequitor, the locals will likely take the damn jobs if they have no other choice.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'If they can...'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if the locals made the effort, the employers wouldn't get away with hiring immigrants. There wouldn't be any job available for them. Instead, the locals rather live in the streets and panhandle.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happens here is industrial corporations will deliberately go to mainland Europe to poor countries to hire labour instead of hiring locals, they know they can find desperate people, can "house" them (basically set up the company store) and pay them below minimum wage for the privelege'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the time when there isn't a hostile takeover is if you're hurting for manpower, as i see it, that's not what's happening in U.S.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'The immigrants would take minimum wage, and the locals can't take less than minimum wage if they wanted to'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why don't UK peeps take the jobs? Because doing so would mean they couldnt' afford to live because the cost of living is so high'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but as a rule, those jobs are never even opened do locals'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'as for professionals, unless you are from Western Europe, your scholarship is not acknowledged.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the locals can't make a bloody effort to outdo the immigrants, think, if both work equally hard, the immigrant will still be cheaper.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish sits down and thinks deeply. 
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'locals have much higher expenses'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'If they don't even try'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and the immigrant is working for his life.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hmm?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'If two people are living in the same place eating the same food, how does one person have higher expenses?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'The locals have homes probably'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that only partially true. McD or BK or Jack in the Box won't take the chance of underpaying immigrants. Or any other established company. All it takes is for one to get immunity and the corps are up the creek.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sacheverell 3
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are not living in the same place, oftentimes not eating the same food, not paying the same taxes, not getting the same benefits'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'likely cause one lives in the slums, has no immidiate family to support, and can subsist on bad food.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'so what you're saying is that the problem isn't immigration. the problem is in fact that someone else is willing to live on less than you.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'or has less choice'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yeah, the degenerates,'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah Aphelion, that's right, I mean there would be riots if they underpaid immigrants lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem is corporations are abusing immigrants, and a side effect of doing so is that local people have high enemployment'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yes, because they are used to living so.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'perhaps the immigrants are doing better here than they were before, which is why they moved.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but would you actually propose to lower the quality of living of everyone in the country to compete with the immigrants?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the corporations abuse them when they are locals in their country, so what's the big deal. They earn more working for McD here that they would if they worked for them there.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'my quality of living is improved by having cheap labor'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well a large portion is bad tax, energy, and planning/infrastructure police, which is why any number of extra people fucks everything up'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah, but there would still be riots, and I'm definitely not saying I would be part of them because I agree with that completely'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's exactly why they move, if you're living in horrible slums in your original country, then live slightly better in another with higher pay, of course it would be better.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, i live on an island, in an era of green credetials, high population density is an issue'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'They'd still be making far more here'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'not horrible slums, where do you get that? Do you think everyone that comes from the South comes from a slum? Wow.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Hahaha'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I mean we're still talking about entirely unskilled labor right?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'so the thing that anyone can do?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unskilled/semi skilled/manual'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when it comes to IT, unskilled outsourcing is a funny problem too'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'those that don't will still be paid higher than they are used to.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'call centers anyone?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'maybe people should be encouraged to acquire some profitable skills'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'So that the locals can only get lowlevel jobs?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe governments should be encouraged to lack after their citizens first and other countryies citizens second?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't know what can be done. What is that whatever is done applies to South Americans, Canadians, French, British, etc. In other words, the law applies whether you have a paint job or not.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise such governments should be told to fuck off since what's the point of them if they're not?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'paving roads and fighting fires'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'I'm surprised the other countries don't do anything to stop them from leaving'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're doing a shit job of that, too'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'don't follow Aphelion.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Who works their McDonalds, eh?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but Arizona couldn't give a greater shit for some illegal Canadian earning 40USD an hour, they want to bust the greaser that pulls down a hefty 6 USD an hour.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'proof please.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'There aren't that many illegal Canadians, I should know, I can see Canada from my house'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and I know of some Canadians doing just that.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there aren't many canadians full stop'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'solid evidence, not hearsay.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Xaeris peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Haha'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cheap immigrants are a problem because of their impact on wages and the job market, in both the US and UK (for different reasons) shear scale is the issue'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Is this the most active the debate channel has been in, well, ever?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, sach'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Of course I've been inactive for a couple weeks'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK is full, tell them to go elsewhere, like to France'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I know contractors that walk over the border and get jobs here and pull down the 40 USD/hr. Remember, contractors get the full amount, nothing is taken out.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'they walk from canada to arizona?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'HAHAHAHHAA'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and if they need IDs, they just go to 7th  & Alvarado and buy them :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or we could just limit population growth, but it all comes down to this, i don't care if you're from Canada, Africa, or Mexico, immigrants are all sorts of bad on the economy and the job market when the country already has enough people.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, if the feds have been told to stand down from proper immigration control, time to break out your states national guard'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Of course, I suppose I might not be as much of a source about Canadian immigration, seeing as I live at the exact spot where Lake Ontario meets the St. Lawrence river, so they have to cross a bridge :3'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Arizona was just an example, I don't actually know if there are any there, I know there are in Los Angeles.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if you cross the border from the south and you try to catch a plane, you better have papers. I doubt if Canadians have that much of  problem getting on a plane. Though, I suppose they could just take Grayhound :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then it's probably that their harder to catch, and therefore more likely to stay slightly longer, but i would hesitate to say that they are welcome.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they patrol the canadian border properly because teh canadians are typicall law abiding freedom loving people'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah, the Canadian border is a lot less secure, at least where I live, than the Mexican one'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't want canadians, they want smelly impoverished central americans to come and turn those southern states blue'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'EXACTLY Tigernuts lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'are there more people tryin to get in from Mexico or Canada, why would Canadians even want in?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, that's not it, if they look at the plane's manifest and they see "Garcia" and "Jimenez", they will ask them to show papers when they deplane. Unless the Canadian in question happen to have one of those last names (among others), they are will travel unmolested.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'there are no checkpoints 50 miles from the Canadian border to see if anyone is illegal.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no checkpoints 50 miles from the mexican border to see if anyone is illegal'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that doesn't quite answer my question.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah, where I am there is a little box on the interstate to let people in and out and that's it... of course that little box is the only way across except by boat'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'what question?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'are there more people tryin to get in from Mexico or Canada, why would Canadians even want in?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mexico, Jopari'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'for the same reason the South Americans want in, money.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'I don't know, horse stea'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Steak'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Honduras, Guatemala etc. Basically word got out that the border checks were not being enforced if you sent kids'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there has been a mass exodus of late'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Except that was a lie'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't a lie at all'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'But now they decided to do it because of all of the kids'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'therefore, i would postulate that the Mesican border is being policed more tightly because the Mexican people are a larger problem, and therefore more manpower needs to be used to curb it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'It wasn't true until the govt had thousands of mexican kids on their hands and said, 'Hey! Let's just let 'em through!''
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Mexican border needs to be policed more tightly, but the people doing the policing have been told to stand down'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the point I was trying to make with the examples was that if you are going to patrol the border, you patrol all borders. At least pretend you are not racist.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'patrolling a border is not about being racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's not racist, just practical.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't have the same controls/numbers per mile on each border out of equality'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'In general, Canada has better education than Mexico, so if we got some Canadians at least they could do some good'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I won't deny that border needs tighter control, as long as all the borders are tightened to the same degree.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so the point is not that they are illegal, but that they are Mexicans.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the canadian border doesn't need tightening because Canadians aren't pouring illegally over the border'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Yeah really'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you would proceed to make sure that the amount of manpower and resources spent must be proportionate, and since manpower and resources are limited, you do what you can'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so the law is written so that some illegals are allowed in without fear of being prosecuted?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'No'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with law, the stand down was ordered by the executive. "non-enforcement"'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Not because their Mexican, simply that there's more pouring from one side than the other.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'But if they come here, what do they care about the law?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'then all I ask is the law be applied to all. Not a unreasonable request.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's what happens when you have shit presidents and a scam of party-political based democracy'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'You're right, it isn't a unreasonable request, its AN unreasonable request :3'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so? The law doesn't say, if the number reaches x, go after them, otherwise pretend is not happening. Or does it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what your asking for isn't equality, it's a farce.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'equality isn't policing the border equally, it's treating the situation appropriately.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, applying the law uniformly is a farce. It never happens.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if a student were to be more likely to commit disciplinary problems than others'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'applying the law uniform is what is happening, prosecution and the application that you're suggesting is idiotic.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the problem with that philosophy is that there is no way to manage such approach because it's basically whimsical. Since they don't follow the law, they make it up as they go along.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Who doesn't follow the law?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the borders are all policed, but because one end of the border is easily overwhelmed, it must be fortified.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'INS doesn't follow the law when it comes to non-South Americans.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'It does, it just doesn't catch them'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Maybe Canadians are smarter and hard to catch :3'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, that's a good one :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if the Canadians started pouring in en masse, it would be fortified too.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'lol jk jk jk'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, now they are smarter... good. Let me write that one down.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but they're not, therefore more attention is spent on the Mexican border.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I would bet that if Canadians suddenly decide to start immigrating, the US and Canada would reach an accord where they would come in quotas.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Quotas of what? How many can come in at a time per day or something?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'likely not.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, so you think the US would start raiding businesses looking for Canadians? Right.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'even if quotas were set, the Canadians would still attempt entry en masse.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and the US would turn a blind eye.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ye of little faith.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Give me a reason why.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they are whiite'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'No, they're white'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'whatever'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Not whiite lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'who's the person who can't see past skin colour in this debate? you, if you are willing to believe all people up top think this way, then please provide something to prove it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Obama certainly wouldn't :3'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the 'us' and 'them' mentality applies even if they have similarities to you. And i see no benefit that would make the U.S keep the Canadian immigrants around.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so you are saying that the policies the US applies to the problem of immigration from the South is not motivated by racism. My apologies. '
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'not "us". I am not one  of "us".'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not solely.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i never said you were,.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'should suburbs and inner cities both have police forces of the same size? that's equivalent to requesting that the borders should have the same resources...'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the 'us' and 'them' mentality is a group mentality.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'good point Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not anti-black to have a bigger police force in the city, it's merely appropriate response to demonstrated need'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'need for what?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it demonstrates that the response must be appropriate to the situation.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'what's the situation?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when there is more crime in an area, obviously the policing force must be given more resources.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'need for law enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'like need for border enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'So, as rule, areas where blacks live have more law enforcement elements.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the situation is two areas with varying levels of crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, areas with higher crime'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I know it's a really high and hard concept...but try to think a bit'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nope, just because a person is black doesn't mean he's a liability to public safety.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I understand the concept and the theory. I just don't think the application follows it very closely.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then study more'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'when a place has higher amount of blacks and a higher crime rate, doesn't mean the blacks being blacks are the problem, the link isn't causal.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'In Los Angeles. The trains are boarded on the honor system. That is, the assumption is that you are going to pay so there are no barriers. However, if a law enforcement agent asks you for proof of passage, you should be ready to present it. That is a the theory.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's likely to be because of perhaps a shared background.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'continue.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'In practice the law enforcement agents only check for proof of passage at two stations. Guess where those stations are.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'buffalo's metro is the same way...the fines for not having a stub are much heftier than the ticket'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i foresee something that you'll link to racism.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'You can go to any station and watch the people go in without paying, knowing that the odds are they won't get caught. But at those 2 stations, you better have paid.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'go on, spit it out.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't need to say any more :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then you've proved nothing.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then again, you also somehow see people walking across the border from canada to los angeles every day :P'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, I have proved nothing.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you ask them why they don't patrol other stations, and they will just "but we do". Except no one ever sees them. But at these 2 stations, they are 4 deep.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you'd need to show that all these stations have the same levels of rulebreaking probability.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's a pretty long walk'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'likely because a larger show of force is required.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the people at these two stations  pay, they have no choice. No one knows what would happen without the police presence, because it is always there.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'remember, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that would be worse, because the people getting in without paying are obvious. So if the law enforcement is hidden at these other stations, they they are observing pay evaders and doing nothing about it. That actually would be worse.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so can you prove that there isn't a need for a higher prescence at the two stations?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the only way to find out is to remove the presence. Since the presence is always there, there is no way to tell.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'therefore, isn't your argument also invalid as speculation?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it is obvious that the lack of presence elsewhere leads to evasion. So I assume if the presence were to be removed from the 2 stations, there would evaders there too.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it is not speculation that at the other stations people are getting in without paying. It is not speculation that law enforcement doesn't enforce fare payment at those stations.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so is it unwarranted? Could you please state which stations and what the official reason is?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'since i don't live in the States, that info would be helpful.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'for the official reason, you'll have to ask the sheriff's department. As to what stations, pick one. Get a map of LA's rail system and throw darts at it to choose.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you just said 2 stations were heavily policed, hitting one with a dart is extremely unlikely.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'your cops are just as corrupt as ours are.  That info's irrelevant by itself, if you cannot contextualize it with other parameters (ie, mean wealth of the zone, crime stats for same, etc)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's why i want the location and official reason.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I didn't say that anyone was corrupt, not in that way, anyway.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'probably not as corrupt as mine, but meh.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry, that was slightly off-topic, i still need the locale.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'anyway, I have to get busy with other stuff. Thanks for your time :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari sighs.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari sulks in the corner.  Baby!!
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I am here everyday, so maybe when I have more time we can continue.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not me. and the curiousity will likely hurt my brain. oh well.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'besides, we'll never change anything with these arguments. You are bent on showing that law enforcement is basically impartial and has the best interests of the community at heart. I am slightly bent on showing you that's hogwash.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion waves happily.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah, what i want to know is where, arguin these is my way of getting info.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'besides, my country's corrupt to the core, so i know that police can be very partial.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't need rocket surgery to understand it, Obama's mob couldn't get immigration made easier (reformed) so he threw a hissy fit and is breaking the constitution in order to allow floods of mexican and centrial american kids into the US by not enforcing the border controls and not enforcing laws that prevent them staying'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'motivation for letting them in are easy votes'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's an... interesting way of saying it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's just the facts on the ground, Jopari'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'easy votes huh, isn't there a limit before you can vote?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'time limit i mean.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, because the obama administration is also blocking voter ID laws which some states are trying to put in to force voters to prove they're a citizen first'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though i know it isn't always enforced, i thought it only happened in rather bad countries.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wow, that's pretty bad.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all you need is a photo id of some kind.  Don't even need the voter registration cards the government sends you if you have that.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and since many states are giving out drivers licenses (a photo ID) to illegal aliens.... QED'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if it's good enough to get into a bar, it's good enough to vote.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wow, don't they need to justify it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the government, why the fuck would they?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or did they just provide horrible reasons.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they just call their opponents racist or conspiracy theorists, or terrorists'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the drivers licenses?  They already justified it.  Illegal aliens without photo ids don't follow the rules of the road.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari flinches in obvious pain... you wonder what he did THIS time.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't care, there's a 50-50 chance UK will elect a Nazi as prime minister in 2015'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or rather, if one party wins, a nazi will be home secretary, if they lose, the nazi will become leader of the opposition'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'who're we talking about?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Theresa May'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mind you, the opposition are nazi's anyway, so it makes little odds'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is that the evil cat lady with the cat named Kitler?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so by nazi do you mean supremacist?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'authoritarian police state'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fascist'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Kitler?! WTH?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's a funny cat picture of a young cat with a black marking on its upper lip that looks a lot like Hitler's mustache.  John Stewart used it on his show.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's a cat? gets my vote'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'fascist huh, that's be very bad.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'seriously, so they're proposing that everyone follow whatever they say?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how'd bureaucracy come to this?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a biblical swarm of blood suckers, aka politics.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she believes in the power of state above all, the end of all freedoms, spying on everyone, detention without warrants and the expansion (not end) of the war against drugs'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as part of that she believes in rolling all police forces into one national one, the removal of most of the remaining jury trials and the removal of a trial in many cases'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i wouldn't ask for the end of the war on drugs, just different methods.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she also wants to opt out of the convention on human rights'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'all hail the revival of the old KGB.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari boggles at the concept.
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what?!'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'she wants human rights to be revoked?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they never left, they just branched out into politics'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would you want the KGB when you already had the remnants of the Germany secret police founding the CIA?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, she wants the european human rights act revoked'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nutjob, real hard case.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'I thought she wanted the "D"'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she also looks like she has a dribbly fanny'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'D?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suffice to say she makes my blood boil'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if the European right's act were to be revoked, all sorts of shit would hit the fan, if she's serious.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's the UK equivalent of Eric Holder, and about as interest in law and order'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what do you mean by 'D' Oto? '
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'who we talking about?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Theresa MAy, Oto'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'who is she?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'see history of this channel.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'about 40~50.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you know who the bad guy is in V for Vendetta?  She's THAT guy in real life.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'how do i do that again?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'channel -h number or search term'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'add -h'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'and what section should i look at?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oto: 'to get a understanding'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'about all of it that refers to what she propagates.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so if she gets her way, that's almost all the progress in the past few centuries undone.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'progressives are just as bad'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'progressives quite often -are- fascists and authoritarians'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'what? Nobody was on this channel lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hmm?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they call themselves innovative.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i don't get it, removing the old doesn't make it better.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'anyway, G'night.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Sacheverell person again...
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'You were in on this debate a moment ago.'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'And now joo attack it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '?'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Lol you were debating and then you said we couldn't debate there lol'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Shame upon thee!'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're not supposed to, it's not what it's for'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people get short with you if you abuse it'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'It was originally about tech, but it sorta spiralled out of control... it appears to happen a lot'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have fun, i'm off, i'll no doubt jump back if someone has anything interesting to talk about'
T3/r7/2014-06-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sacheverell: 'Haha'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Argentina is potentially about to default on $539m of bond repayments today'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, supreme court sides with Hobby Lobby and allows them exemption from Obamacare due to religious grounds because of the mandatory contraception cover'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is twisted in silly America - it should be people who have those exemptions, not companies'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'contraception cover? can a company have religious beliefs?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently corporations are considered people under many elements of US law'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yeah, if i remember correctly, they have rights and everything.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have more rights than people do'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but i didn't know they could have a belief system.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it'll be the religious belief of the owners'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take it to the opposite end of the spectrum, you're a single person employing one other, do those rights apply to you?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i sorta see where they're coming from, but it's admitted a tad odd'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the supreme court vote was 5-4 with the 5 being all men, the 4 including the only 3 women'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not surprising for women judges to be flids'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should have left them in the kitchen where they belonged'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ouch.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's a tad harsh.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it amused me :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'contraception isn't healthcare, it's elective so shouldn't ever be included as a mandatory thing, dunno wtf they were thinking'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'meh, is alternative medicine covered in it as well?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, some is in the UK and they're trying to overturn it'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the US? doubt it, the whole thing's a stitch up by pharma corps'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pharma and insurance companies'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'alt med probably shouldn't be encouraged.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on the method'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'at least not to the extent where conventional medicine no longer fits in the people's minds.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should be offered where it has proven effect'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as accupuncture'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chiropracty'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even aromatherapy for certain things'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but quite often, others are more effective, and these alt meds often claim beyond what their treatments can treat.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe they are, but they cannot claim effect beyond what they treat already by law (here, anyway), and "not offering them within insurance" is a bit different to "banning them altogether"'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'used in conjunction, there's no reason not to encourage it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'alternative medicine doesn't have the monopoly on shit treatments, there are plenty of really bad drug treatments that doctors will happily prescribe'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if i remember correctly they have.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not monopoly, somply the right to advertise.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like mass murder suicide pills'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20% of the US public takes them, irrespective of the fact they do not cure anything, and cause people to have psychotic episodes'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if that's happening, the FDA could lead an investigation if provided with suspicion.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if what's happening?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'bad drug treatments.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would they? the FDA are bankrolled by pharma/health industry'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might want to look up "vaccine courts" and wonder why there's even a need for it to exist'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'conspiracy theory?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in terms of SSRi's, they have never ever cured anyone on record'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, vaccine court exists'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not to that, to the earlier one.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'SSRi's can actually reduce your chances of getting better because they screw over your body's ability to regulate various chemicals'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'okay, the vaccine court doesn't appear to be what the pharma companies would want.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'conspiracy theory that 20% of the US public takes SSRI's? no, that's true'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they reckon that by 2050 (one average lifetime since they were invented) 2/3 of all people will have been prescribed SSRi's at some point in their life'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'no, i'm talking about how everyone is in the Big Pharma's bank roll.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who said everyone was?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like certain other big industries, they exert considerable and undue pressure on governments in the form of party funding, lobbying, and revolving door appointments between government and high-end jobs in those companies'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pharma, banking, military are the 3 biggies'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your education continues :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not really, i've read so much of things like this i'm really not surprised someone thinks this way, though SSRi's are something new.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thinks?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't really up to debate :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i admit that there are some instances where it may be true, bit i would also like to point out that one, i haven't seen the Big Pharma refuse to want a certain medication, probably because two, whatever can be used as medication makes them a profit.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in addition, all bar 1 (i believe) of the non-gang related mass shootings in the USA of the last 30 years were perpetrated by people on SSRi's'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'really, where'd that number come from?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was a crime study out of some american university, can't remember where i saw it'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'from what i read, there is only a suspicion that it causes suicidal behaviour.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i remember the highlights being excerpts of the medical reports of the most recent shooters'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'll look it up later i suppose.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it isn't a suspicion, it's listed on the side effects sheets'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i honestly don't understand how vaccines can link to autism.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or SSRi.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i suppose it is a side effect, sorry, misread.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the autism thing isn't because of the vaccine themself so much as side effect of the process'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'trauma?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically a immune system reaction/panic'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thankfully rare, but when you pump every child full of a half dozen vaccines each, it doesn't need to be common to affect thousands of kids a year'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they do realise vaccines are simply weakened bacterium right?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not any more they aren't'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you can vaccinate with drugs now?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i don't remember such a thing being possible.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they're still basically the bacteria, but they doctor them a a subtly different way'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they're still basically the bacteria, but they doctor them a a subtly different way'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Tigernuts, the autism-vaccine link has been debunked'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there are true believers Vost, or people on the fence still.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so was the cigarette-lung cancer link'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because there is no link'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'sure - they are wrong'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'personally i don't, but i'd still like to see the argument.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccines don't -cause- autism, autism can result from vaccines, that's the bottom line'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a->b does not imply b->a'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that's wrong, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'tough though, what's autism exactly?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's wrong about it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Google Andrew Wakefield'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know who Andrew Wakefield, and it has nothing to do with his botched study'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'having relatives who have died as the result of vaccines, I'm inclined to consider anyone declaring there to be no dangers to be idiots'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it's all his fault'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how do you suppose vaccines caused your relatives deaths, Abelinc?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immune system reaction i'm guessing'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same reason peanuts can kill you'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'anaphylaxis?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'very rare heart condition, actually'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i could die from favia beans if i ate them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you couldn't, Jopari, it's a conspiracy theory'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'no, fava beans are poisonous'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm G6PD deficient.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'not anaphylaxis'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i could very well die from it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if vaccines had no side effects, there wouldn't be pages of them listen on the CDC website and the Office of Special Masters wouldn't exist'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's about all there is to say about it'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that isn't to say vaccines are bad, or that you shouldn't take them, for the large part they're good, and for the large part you SHOULD take them'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except the flu vaccine which is a fake'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's because fools exist, NCCAM(though i doubt that's their name now) still exists, homeopathy exist and a host of other stupid things exist, doesn't make them right.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccines are not homeopathy'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'never said they were.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nor are they a panacea'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but just because something exists doesn't make it right.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nor does it make it irrefutable.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we overvaccinate, much like we over-antimicrobial-ize, it's a dangerous road'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's pretty much what i said, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not really.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'vaccination benefits from herd effect'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'antibiotic overuse leads to drug resistance'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'define overvaccinate.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are limited things that are sensible to be vaccinated for'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'vaccinate "cuz we can" rather than for safety'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sure? of'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if something is a killer, or whose vaccination can last a lifetime, are good things to vaccinate against'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'things like the flu, or measles, completely pointless'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if it's not life-threatening under normal conditions, it shouldn't be vaccinated for the general'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'flu and measles do kill people'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'if benefits outweigh risks - it should be potentially used'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'under the right circumstances...then again, so does the flu vaccine'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'which it does for certain populations for flu/measles'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'certain populations is the issue...'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'flu vaccines exist? or just for certain flu?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flu vaccine is ineffective, and the measles vaccine has a higher death rate than the measles'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost bonks Jopari on the head for being such an UTTER moron.
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the flu vaccine exists, but is only 9% effective because flu isn't a singular bug, it mutates'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'evidence please, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not likely that vaccines kill more than the original.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'cause that would mean it was more powerful.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can look up the death rate for measles as well as i :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not more powerful, merely differently-affecting'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most vaccine-related complications are not from the live culture'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what causes it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think measels is more of a concern in developing countries where there's much lower levels of health care'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in which case, the measels vaccine would be a boone for those families'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what do you think causes measles vaccination to be more dangerous.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Abelinc.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a far cry from why the supreme court was right to allow Hobby Lobby religious exemption from Obamacare'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yep, but still valid.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'just because you raised that topic doesn't neccessarily mean i'm confined to it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't complaining ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i suppose not.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, should a company be treated as an individual?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it happens to be a state that i gleefully use in my debates.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a complicated question, razkin'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i'm not sure.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm kind of divided on the Hobby Lobby ruling'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I figure :)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, this is one where I can really see points on both sides'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i honestly don't think contraception ought to be covered.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto, Jopari, it's a lawsuit of the administration's own making'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, see, I don't think it shoudl be covered either (neither does my wife)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think I'm more concerned with some of the reasoning that they used , such as providing a for profit company individual rights'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's just an anomoly of your legal system'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it's one that I dont' think I like, for the most part'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know, again, I'm kind of split on it'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how could you apply it to a one-man company with 2 employees and not apply it to a corporation?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'especially since I didn't support ACA in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the ACA was a dog of an idea/bill'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder if rulings like this will force health care even farther into government control.  I mean, that sounds weird, but I've already seen some peopel arguing that this would be a moot point if the government was the sole provider'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt it'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only chance is it gets pulled entirely in 2018'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hope your right'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry 2016'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oh good lord, see.. I knew this would happen'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/simon-waxman-tomahawk-missiles-apache-helicopters-just-as-offensive-as-redskins/2014/06/26/16c18738-fc9a-11e3-932c-0a55b81f48ce_story.html'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pc brigade needs to fuck off and die'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Half my state will need to be renamed...'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i hate it when they claim sensitivities.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heh, i would suppose so.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno why you lot went down that route, should have just brought in goverment as a provider of health insurance'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ACA seems like the most convoluted, fucked up, awkward and expensive way of achieving the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'On a mostly completely unrelated note, apparently you have a shortage of Sperm in the U.K., Tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.bbc.com/news/health-28061263'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'according to that article, the U.S. is a major exporter of Sperm to your fertility banks.  '
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and you were saying that we didn't export anything, the other day'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'don't know if that qualifies as manufacturing, though...'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when talking about records and history, why in the olympics and the world cup, do media always refer to Germany, then before unification, West Germany - East Germany, who were successful at many sports, get completely edited out of history?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I hadn't actually paid attention to that, however, there seems to be this push to not recognize the past (such as that renactment that woudldn't allow the German soldiers to wear German outfits).'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'people seem to want to forget , but that's the last thing we should'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'do'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the past, nogs, like they're editing 1776 out of american history'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd guess it's part of the P.C. brigade you mentioned'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i wonder, do they really understand the implication of their actions?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the destruction of the history of a culture is the cruelest thing possible, for it leaves them as though they never existed.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though i understand not all of it is being destroyed, when you start cherry picking even history, nobody will ever learn fron history.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's this weird push to not offend anyone'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then there's the PC brigade, as you put it. How is this not similar to the way a cetain government attempted to control it's people's thoughts?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'in my experience, people rarely feel offended until they are told that they should.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the weird push not to offend is causing people to be more offended.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'like in my country, Islamists now have a "halal" food chain. How is this progression from the days when we simply didn't put pork or alcohol in dishes from them, when they could come over to eat and chat?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dishes for them, my bad.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'What is the halal food chain thing?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the government believes that the Al-Quran means that nothing you eat or use to cook what you eat can touch pork or alcohol.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so now restaurants amhave to have a halal certification for Muslims in our country to eat.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just tell them to piss off'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'done'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'buyer beware'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like the food chain in these muslim countries is really halal'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might SAY it is'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the halal certificate requires that they don't serve pork, use pork derived ingredients, use utensils for pork or alcohol.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'believe me, i've told them more than once that it's a stupid idea, i was showered with anger and contempt.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who in this case is "them"?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'some muslims i know in my school.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'of course, i know there are some who consider it bs as well, but i haven't really met them yet.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell those "some muslims" that they're retarded and point out the flaws in their hairbrained scheme'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless they genuinely are retarded, then tell them they're retarded, point and then laugh'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'this fervor has reached a pitch where some Muslims refuse alcohol swabs and anasthesia with alcohol in it.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'send them back to Saudi Arabia'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like to see them vs a non-refusal checkpoint'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i couldn't do that, i'd be "disturbing the peace" and thrown in jail.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well in that case, plant some extremist material on their laptops and have them arrested'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and it's me and the rest of the minorities who are being told to go back to China, India, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'start demanding that your religion requires the saying of grace before a meal'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'we have a National Harmony Act, that prevents me from openly voicing my opinions on the Islam as a national religion point.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where's that, Singapore?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Malaysia, Singapore is way more open and doesn't have Islam as the official religion.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Malaysia has never been quite the same since we left'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'or since you came, for that matter.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you were barbarians before that'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but point conceded, empire usually creates more problems than it solves'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take a look at Israel'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'seen it, but empire?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British Palestine'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the state of Israel came about because of Jewish terrorists that moved in after WW2 rebelled against british rule'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ahh.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well it's in quite a precarious area now ain't it?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Britain couldn't solve it, went to the UN who decided to create an Israeli state against our reccomendations, Israel then proceeded over the next 50 years to essentially ethnically cleanse Israel of native Arabs'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rest, as they say, is history'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'was it Malaysia that recently ruled that Christians can't call God, Allah?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'or was that a different country?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yes, bastards.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's vaguely amusing that the Israeli prime minister was on telly today supporting the creation of a Kurdish state, given that it would need chunks of Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey to work, and given that he refuses to let the Palestinians have one'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'One of our activists, a muslim herself, stated dryly that our National Anthem sang to God rather than Allah.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Allah is God'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's kinda the point'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'yeah, but now Allah has ©.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole point of Judaism, Islam and Christianity is that they share the God'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i know, therefore it is stupid.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think the argument was something rediculous, like a Muslim could accidently read Christian literature, see the word Allah in it, and somehow be magically converted to a Christian, or something like that'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'that's not the whole point'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what IS the point, then?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the whole point is that each one is right and the others are wrong'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the argument was that Christians and Muslims would get confused.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well clearly only one can be right, and that's Christianity'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, but it was more than that'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari raises an eyebrow.
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Islam is just Christianity with the serial numbers filed off and a bunch of dodgy shit to satisfy the needs of the manipulating founder of the time'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I could swear I read something about Imams being worried that Muslims would accidently get converted, or something of the such'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Judaism came first, then Christianity, then Islam.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like any religion'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, in some ways, Islam is a bit closer to Judaism'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'another baseless argument, Razkin, regarding the imams'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm just telling you what I read'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not by much.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i know, and i'm calling their turd a turd.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Religion had many purposes, teaching, instilling morals, but mainly it was about keeping the little people under the thumb'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, no, not by much, but for instance, if Halal food isn't available, Kosher food is acceptable, by virtue of many of the similarities'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but that's just kind of a minor similarity'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they want Halal food, prepare it themselves'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Some time ago, an NGO named JAIS, proceeded to raid some Christian Churches.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'however, I find it interesting that so many religious people don't want to accept that they worship the same god'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's tribalism'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and I agree with the controlinng people, Tiger'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'The Christians actually recognised it when they asked for permission to use Allah. it was accepted, then recently revoked'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'JAIS proceeded to confiscate the Malay bibles during the raid, and are vying to destroy them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Our history books have been rewritten so that i get a headache everytime i read about how the Malays were the heroes, and the minorities are bad and immigrants.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Then we have a guy wanting to revoke my second class citizenship, despite me being the 4th generation here.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well, not mine specificly, but you get the point.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move :-)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what idiots tell me, don' tlike it? move. Where to?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i've got no roots back in China, and no capability to work, he's basicly threathening exile.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'besides, we had a prescence here before even them.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, with a bit of luck China will start invading places around there - they're already making noises'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i hope not, war could be worse.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i keep having the idle thought of emulating Guy Fawkes's parlimentary disagreement.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'naw, that won't help you any'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a nice big war might wake up westernised countries to realise that if they want to be the good guys, they actually have to -be- the good guys, and not just have the rhetoric'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might also help solve the overpopulation problem'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there is that.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing else will help. you can't even talk about immigration in the UK without someone branding you a racist'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i have the sneaking suspicion they're all braindead though.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://everythingisracism.com/'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they're braindead, but this is a democracy, and you know that in a democracy you have two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thanks to my beliefs, i am branded a racist, misogynistic and segregationist'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'apt discription'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's true, is why i laud the US constitution and why it makes me very cross when it's subverted and not protected'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's very striking and apt as well that utopia means "not a place"'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then there's the human rights act, that according to you is also being subverted.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, yup, already has, but we don't have a constitution so nobody even noticed'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well damn.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they continue to nibble at it, they've already legitimatised the spying of UK citizens Facebook, GoogleMail, Twitter and Skype activities without a warrant on the grounds that they're foreign companies'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i always thought that'd be the last place for that, then i started my education about Laura Cox.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've had no protest rights since the miners strikes of the 1980s'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'spying is legal now, by the government?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've had arbitrary searches without a warrant since 2001'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arbitrary detention without charges since 2001'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the general idea of spying is that it was done on foreign country operations, countries that are your enemies'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that might actually be reasonable, i suppose they've watched too many terrorist movies.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that would be reasonable, spying on your own people isn't though'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm perfectly happy for my government to spy on me, provided they go to a judge and get a fucking warrant describing what they're looking for and what crime it's to catch/prevent'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so they now can check your twitter, facebook and others? best not be doing anything untoward then.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'even bad jokes.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the warrant should be warranted.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'without justification, there should be no reason. Do they even still need warrants to search your home?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, I believe so'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not your car or your person though'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'well, i suppose that's still better, but the facebook and twitter of a regular person will probably be more informative though.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the trouble with UK law, and it's the same happening int he US, is that they deliberately put in vague clauses to enable the police to act in a corrupt manner'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wrt to warrants, Police in the UK do not need a warrant to arrest someone for whom an arrest warrant has been issued and they believe in on the premises (reasonable), to arrest an individual for a sufficiently serious crime (reasonable), to recapture an individual who is unlawfull at large (reasonable) to save an individual's life or prevent serious damage to a person or property (subject to huge amounts of abuse)'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'huh.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's up?'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'sorry, need to go, it's 4~5 a.m.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good morning'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you too.'
T3/r7/2014-06-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'anyone in the mood for an I/P discussion?'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not a big fan of the European Court on Human Rights, but today's decision to uphold France's ban on the muslim full face veil (the Nikhab) is bizarre to say the least'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Saudi Arabia and US backed terrorist Sunnhi group ISIS has declared a new Islamic state taking parts of Iraq and Syria as territory'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'what's the soccer news?'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the soccer news is that soccer is shit'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'belgium winning 1-0 in extra time'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an Islamic Caliphate under Sharia is just what the world needs'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A government-contracted security force threatened to arrest doctors and nurses if they divulged any information about the contagion threat at a refugee camp housing illegal alien children at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas, sources say'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a free country'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like these camps want some bombs dropped on them'
T3/r7/2014-07-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fair's fair, that's what they do to pakistani, yemeni and afghani children, why not guatamalan and honduran?'
T3/r7/2014-07-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'californians are getting arsey at the standdown at the border and their lands being flooded with illegal immigrants, among them drugs gangs. What gives? Californians are democrats that should be stoned and not heard'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'today we were told that simply by visiting Tor website, or searching for Tor, you get flagged in the NSA database as an extremist'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, a hurricane this early....we might get an exciting season this year.'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, plasma tvs are about to go extinct.'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, mortgage rates near 4% again.'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mortgage rates are way over 4%'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might just about squeeze a variable rate with a introductory rate at 3.79%'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fixed rates starting around 5.2 here'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'fixed rates here with 700+ credit are 4.01 %'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '4.01 + base rate, or including?'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the 13th warrior is one of the best films ever made....too bad it lost $160 million.'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ouch, 47 ronin cost $225m to make, and earned only $150m....losing about $140 million with advertising costs.'
T3/r7/2014-07-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'keanu reeves should have stuck to a new matrix trilogy.'
T3/r7/2014-07-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was odd to see a US flag flying from a 13th century anglican church tower a few miles from where i live in England'
T3/r7/2014-07-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also against the law, technically'
T3/r7/2014-07-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"We are not going to put metal detectors in front of the schools to keep the parents from entering. We are in a relation of trust with the parents," Couffignal said. "This is the relation we want to keep."  So said a fellow french teacher after a crazed parent walked into a preschool class and stabbed the teacher to death right in front of the students.'
T3/r7/2014-07-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'i'll bite, what dastardly did the french teacher do that enraged the parent'
T3/r7/2014-07-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no idea, but while the school hasn't before seen violence like this they've experienced tensions before.  Given the stories my aunt and sister-in-law tell, I'm guessing they committed the mortal sin of telling the parents they're the cause of their child's issues.'
T3/r7/2014-07-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'authorities are saying the mom was psycho, though.'
T3/r7/2014-07-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should sterelise women like that'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'anyone feel that the progression of equality for the sexes is stunted by how popular women portray themselves?'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'by popular i mean celebrities. not politicians.'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'deb -h 30'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari sighs.
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'equality of sexes is an anacronism'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and it may or may not be a good idea, depdending on what equality means'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sexes will never be equal, they are fundamentally different'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trying to force them to be equal is a pointless, fruitless, and probably harmful escapade'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'equal as in equal legal rights in most situations is reasonable, aiming for equal outcomes is counterproductive'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've had equal rights for decades'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'since we are quite different'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more than equal in some areas'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'what does "more than equal" mean?'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'usually discriminating in favour of a group perceived as weak/minority/whatever'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what Tinada said'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are far worse and more immediate problems in society that perceived gender inequality'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you mean global warming? :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and shoe bombers'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err no'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'most of the resources available to western societies are being wasted, that's one we might look into'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like use of foreign policy to deliberately destabilise foreign countries, create wars'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like corporatisation, globalisation and the enslavement and impoverishment of people by governments and corporations'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also efil school systems'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shit like that that affects almost everyone, man or woman, black brown white yellow or blue, straight or bent'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'which are nessecary for the rest to work'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will the mexico-immigrant border dispute go hot?'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kinda wish Rick Perry would find his testicles and deploy the national guard'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, The British Broadcasting Corporation (UK's state owned broadcaster) has issued new guidelines to it's news department to ignore previous guidelines that demand impartiality when reporting contentious subjects, and instead divide time based upon "concensus"'
T3/r7/2014-07-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'long live free press!'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oo, Spain confirms a tax on all bank deposits. Nasty'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'wow'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'do they have an income tax?'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and if so, do they tax the deposit of your income ontop of hte income tax?'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure the specifics, probably calculated the same way they do interest'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'a yearly rate? '
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, I'd be really upset if they were blatently double taxing'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? happens all the time'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's to stop people from withdrawing all their money'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but usually they at least try and do it a bit less obviously'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing, redryn, but is that what they want?'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'bad things tend to happen when people all withdraw their money at the same time'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.examiner.com/article/veteran-arrested-and-charged-for-legally-open-carrying-ar-15'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, your cops are really fucked up'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'read the story, watch the video, the cops literally entrapped the guy and arrested him falsely'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hope the dude wins a decent settlement for his time, though it happens more and more often, and it's the public who pick up the tab'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one wonders why they put up with it'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder how much of it has to do with poor training'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, you see it more and more and it's actually the result of training, not lack of it'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am prepared to believe that the police have been told to go after gun carriers, knowing full well that they have done nothing wrong in order to have a chilling effect'
T3/r7/2014-07-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it costs the tax payer a fortune, they know that will just further the anti-gun cause'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Is Ross Ulbricht guilty of any crimes?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Brazil about to declare war on Germany?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'If the US successfully convincts Ross Ulbricht, it will set a precedent that will allow -any- website vendor to be charged for the conduct of any user on their website'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hardly'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are significant flaws in the prosecution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=osg2LqSxEeI'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'namely transfer of intent'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put another way, they were probably right to shut down silk road, and chances are he was guilty of some stuff, but certainly not of murder for hire and al the other crazy shit they're trying to pin on him'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, and mob fronts aren't either...there's nothing truly precent-setting here'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, it's a little more nuanced than that'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be like them charging the director of ebay for conspiracy to murder if someone sells a knife or a gun on it'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'silk road wasn't people using craigslist for illegal activities...it was created, intentionally and from the ground up, for illegal activities'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it wouldn't'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'setting up an anonymous market place is not grounds for being charged with murder'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the murder he's being accused of was not because of something that the website users were doing...'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's being accused for actually being the person putting out the hit'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as i know, he's not the person who put out the hit'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the FBI are alleging that he put out a hit on someone who was blackmailing him, not just that hits happened to be taken out using his site'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of the key implications is that by using Tor, PGP or any other anonymising or privacy technology, you are automatically showing criminal intent'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what the prosecution are claiming'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not true'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he s charged with narcotics trafficking, computer hacking, money laundering, and engaging in a criminal enterprise'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'absolutely'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'those tools were used for criminal activities, with criminal intent...using those tools was purposely done to make discovery and prosecution difficult...merely using them does not show criminal intent, nor was it ever claimed that such was the case'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but the use of them does strengthen the case, and pointing to the use of the tools will (and should) be done'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'just because silk road was a libertarian wet dream doesn't mean that the guy didn't try to hire a hitman. there's pretty convincing evidence'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're talking about all the other charges'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's the opposite of what you said a couple of minutes ago'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you brought up the murder charge, we're talking about it all'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abe brought it up, actually'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, I didn't'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '"chances are he was guilty of some stuff, but certainly not of murder for hire and al the other crazy shit they're trying to pin on him'"'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'debate -h murder...'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '[08 Jul 18:07:53] (Debate) Abelinc: 'he's being accused for actually being the person putting out the hit''
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'first reference to hiring a hit'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup, after you talked about the hit 3 times'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I didn't "bring it up", I clarified it after you brought it up repeatedly'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, mentioned selling guns'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'holy shit how selective your memory is'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'usually people wait more than a few minutes'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well he's been charged with 4 things right now, none of them are murder for hire'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'at least wait till your lines are out of the buffer :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're quoting 18:07:53, how about 18:04:12, 18:05:33 and 18:06:59?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which were 3 times that you talked about him being accused of murder before I said a word about it'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '18:04:12 is a valid contradiction'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'he's being charged for hiring a hitman'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all 3 are you "bringing it up"'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The murder-for-hire allegation is now an 'uncharged crime' mentioned in the narcotics trafficking conspiracy section of the New York Indictment.  It is NOT a formal charge and requires no proof'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(according to the defence)'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'Case1: 13-cr-00222-CCB Document 4 United States of America v. Ross William Ulbricht'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'whether or not it's a charged crime doesn't impact that you brought it up and not me :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'OK, Abe, i apologise for that'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that was the issue i'm worried about'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'http://www.scribd.com/doc/173043638/Ulbricht-Md-Indictment'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm more concerned about selective use of law to target people that aren't part of the establishment'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'jeebus'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, being the mob middleman is simply being "not part of the establishment"'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the dude tried to order a hit on two people'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so he's about as bad as politicians, Dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'fuck, i like the concept of silk road. good drugs are hard to find'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but i don't automatically give him slack fear real evil stuff because i share some of the ideas'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he hired a hitman, then he deserves the book throwing at him for it, but charging him for trafficking and money laundering is bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's always all or nothing with you'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, no more bullshit than any mob front businessman'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will Ebay directors be prosecuted for allowing dangerous chinese fake apple charging units to be sold?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he just did it as freelance rather than being directly affiliated with a single family'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, this has no bearing whatsoever on websites like ebay'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it shouldn't, and it won't'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'despite what his mom says in a youtube video'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why should the rules apply to him and not to ebay?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the rules do apply to ebay'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and they follow the rules'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he didn't'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why have ebay not been prosecuted?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because they comply with the law'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yet are still in breach of it'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not true'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true, even now'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not true, even now'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they take down listings and accounts all the time'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only if someone complains'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'so he shouldn't be prosecuted for ordering and paying for two hits on people?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the law doesn't say "nobody can ever do something illegal"...the law simply says that you must go to reasonable lengths'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably should, dagnir'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's a lovely grey area'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'grey area?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is performed by ebay, and which he wouldn't have wanted to do because it formed the core basis of his business model'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hiring a hitman to kill two people is a "gray area"?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hush, dagnir, we're not talking about your hits'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you brought it up in the first place and said it was unfair'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and that "the stuff was being pinned on him"'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'his site existed purely to broker illegal transactions, it's not that illegal transactions snuck in under the radar'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and where was it hosted?'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'anyway, good night'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also - thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'll probably go down for the hitman stuff, at best they should be able to get him for conspiracy'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't get him for hacking, or money laundering'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt they can get him trafficking'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i'm guessing the hiring a hitman probably carries a bigger sentence than all the other charges combined'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kim dotcom will suffer similar charges no doubt, as will anyone who tries to create p2p secure comms or generally private anything'
T3/r7/2014-07-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in Georgia, middle schoolers violating the dress code is an act of terror now.'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see Israel are taking advantage of the Iraq fighting to do a bit more ethnic cleansing in Gaza'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I think they just take advantage of anytime aggressors in Palastine start something to go take a piece out of them'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm about sick of Israel playing to victim crime to try and justify their actions'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the holocaust was bad, but it's 75 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I hear that.  I'm sick of my country reinforcing it by giving them aid every year'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to be fair, i'm sick of most things these days ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I mean, the Palastinians keep on poking the bear, I'm not really sympathetic to them, but if both sides are refusing to take a higher moral ground, I see no reason to throw our country's money into it'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not usually helpful to point fingers, but in this case Israel most definitely did start it'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'you can chase "who started it" all the way back to 1945.  It's just generations of people upset over things the other country did.  You wind up killing someone you view as a threat, and ten of their family members become the next "terrorist"'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, this is true, but it was Israel that started it when they went about blowing up the British to try and cadge their own state'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'only thing going to ever fix it is either one side obliterates the other, or the UN steps in and enforces a nuetral zone for a generation or so till they chill out and move past all the bad history'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we gave up, handed it to the UN, who promptly caved in, gave them a state, and they then proceed to spend the next 50 years ethnically cleansing the indigenous Arabs'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I think that's the real reason the US is so bent on making sure Iran doesn't have nukes: they probably would nuke Jerusalem after all the bloodshed of the last 50 years'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'and justify it the same way we did Hiroshima: it'll be less deaths overall'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already do have nukes'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Isis capture an Iraq chemical weapons plant/store. What could possibly go wrong?'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'right?  Used in enough numbers those can be just as dangerous'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't you glad 'the west' is supporting such lovely people'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'we were pretty close to giving them enough air support to overrun Syria.  And it've been the same thing: disposing one dictator we dislike for a religious zealoutry we like even less'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not just that, you've been training them and arming them'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'aye.  It's all fun and games till they turn on your allies'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't forget the huge leg up you gave them in Libya'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it's one of the major gripes I have against our party system: both our front running parties support this nation building/regime change crap, and almost all the independent parties oppose it, but it's rigged so they can't possibly win an election without a major overhaul to our voting process'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not to mention our constant support of really fucking bad regimes like Saudi Arabia and Bahrain'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'aye, and its often rumored the Saudies are funding this ISIS thing too, so then it's like we're indirectly supporting them'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same thing afflicts the UK, don't expect it to change, best we can hope from is to try and insulate ourselves from the madness and refuse to be a part of it'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit more than rumours :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey too'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'yea but at least you guys don't spend so much of your budget on military crap, we're spending something like the next 20 largest militaries combined on our "department of defense", as we slash all our domestic budgets for the sake of "austerity"'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is true, though we do spend more than the minimum NATo amount'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'and now we've got like 50000 unprocessed kids trying to come into the southern border from Honduras.  And you get all these opponents of immigration and I just look at it like, here's 50000 kids that actually want our help, but we're going to deport them so we can go fight someone else's war on the other side of the world'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it's just all sorts of fucked'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'brown people are only okay in their own countries'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'duh'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wasn't aware Honduras was at war with anyone, those children are economic migrants, or as they're known in the UK: Welfare sponges'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have it on good authority from people who live on the southern border "Who the fuck is allowing us to all be drowned in illegal immigrants?" '
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and coming from a country who was party to unchecked immigration from poor countries, you really don't want to do this to yourselfs'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it -will- screw you over in a big way'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CISA is a rehash of CISPA, the cyber spying bill that got shot down last year. Be aware, let's hope it gets shot down the same'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need players in more time zones then'
T3/r7/2014-07-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2014-07-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU court strikes down legislation requiring phone/isp companies to keep comms metadata for 12 months for government access. UK cabinet immediately tries to pass 'emergency' legislation to give themselves back the same powers'
T3/r7/2014-07-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK is a fascist state, just like the USA, albeit a little better at PR'
T3/r7/2014-07-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, is it wrong to immediately chuckle and stereotype a victim who are described in the media as "24yr old pregnant mother of 5"?'
T3/r7/2014-07-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything newsworthy tonight?'
T3/r7/2014-07-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Berkeley, CA is giving out free marijuana if you're poor.'
T3/r7/2014-07-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Why is MSNBC claiming that there is a war going on in Honduras?'
T3/r7/2014-07-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '- 4'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel. What's the point of it?'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'to thumb our noses at the other side'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'God sez, nuff said'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would it have been more peaceful in the long term if Hitler had successively eradicated the Jews?'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(hypothetical question)'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it would've been more peaceful if he had won WWII'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you mean that in the purest sense, because obviously it wasn't just the Jews he was targeting'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'yeah, sure, in the same way that it'd be more peaceful if the crusades had been done better'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'conquering almost always results in peace'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'or if the native americans had been able to repel european settlers'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as the only way to bring peace to Israel and Palestine is to conquer them, now'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'or if napoleon had been able to take and keep russia'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Hitler also targeted politicians, craftsmen, and even other enthic groups he felt were on the same level as the Jews (the Romani, muslims, etc)'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'although hoskins makes a good smee'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it definitely would've been a lot more peaceful if HS Sapiens were held back by HS Neanderthalensis.'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is best placed to conquerst'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is best placed to conquer Israel and Palestine and bring peace?'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'That place won't be peaceful until it's depopulated and leveled I'm afraid.'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was peaceful because the jews went back there and bombed and terrorised the BPA into creating a new state for them'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'I'd like nothing more than for isreal and palestine to bury the hatchet and live peacefully, but they both feel slighted and more or less hate eachother.'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, the Israelis started it'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://vimeo.com/50531435'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is vimeo so awful? (side-debate)'
T3/r7/2014-07-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'subtle film though :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ut oh, ukraine has shelled a town on the Russian side of the border'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'new study finds people who claim to worry about climate change use more electric that those who are skeptic'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the number of people killed by police in the US since 9/11 outnumbers the US troops killed in Iraq'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in cities like Seattle, as many as 20% of all homicides are carried out by cops'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I wonder how much those statistics are influence by how they classify a homicide'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'whatd obama do?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was shit'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was nearly as shit as that fascist, Theresa May'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'as much as I don't like obama, I wonder if there shouldn't be a bigger outcry against the congress and the senate'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for what?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'yes, the republicans are the major problem in the House. Fortunately they're arleady getting an asskicking on their way out in November'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, they are a significant part of the government, and many of them have been in their seats longer than any president'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have a split parliament, that's just the way it works sometimes'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what happens when you elect both houses'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yes, but when you start pointing to all the things that the government does wrong, how much of it lies at their feet?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least they haven't exceeded their authority and broken the law'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we can talk about executive orders, etc.  As a group, no.'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, started one thought, then responded :D'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at worst you can accuse them of not agreeing with each other, which let's face it, isn't unusual'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I just think they get a much larger pass than the president ever well'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I think the demopublicans are ideologically worse than the republicrats, but since 95% of them seem to be in it for the graft, it's a close call.'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'congress has like a 9% approval rating, that doesn't sound like a pass. Din't the majority leader also recently get the boot?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, but that's a rarity'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Also, Valerie Jarrett is the worst president since WW2.'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and congress has had a single digit rating for years'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's bad enough, they'll get booted, that's why you want to support grass roots organisations'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'And I have to double check, but pretty sure they've been in the low teens or below for decades'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'congress/senate also have the somewhat unenviable position of being in power during the end of American superpower status'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're going to get a kicking whatever they try and do'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'still some years to go'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'all I'm saying is that we get all upset over our presidents, we vote in a new party, but we seem to be much less critical of the other parties of government, even though we seem to say that we're even more unhappy with them'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'takes years, Tinada'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well..the decline started before I was born'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the shouting always gets louder when things are getting shittier'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'as for China, I personally think they are going to peak and crash in the next decade'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though a friend was complaining about the fascist overtones in some movies, i did have to point out how movie watchers were quick to point it out on the silver screen, yet were willfully blind to it in real life'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'possibly, tinada'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think we will probably have some kind of war in the next 5 years'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'debt + inverted demographic pyramid + limits to authoritarion growth + environmental disaster = end to CCP rule, no matter how much indoctration they can ship'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'indoctrination, even'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the collapse is why they're militiarising and authoritarianising everything. Notice they're doing all the things they bitched about China doing 10 years ago?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love how 5 years of austerity and the UK government has barely knocked 20% off the deficit'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's the US debt coming along?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's a national sport, here'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has it gone down at all?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'm trying to think of something witty to say, but I'm failing.  So I'm just going to have to say, 'no''
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'deficit down?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'as far as I know, no'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but we have ACA'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'which is totally goign to pay for itself'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'indeed'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what on earth do americans think will happen?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are they as dumb as the brits here who don't even know the difference between a debt and a deficit?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that's for the future to worry about'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be none'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've been trying to illustrate to a young friend about how UK's had a balance of payments deficit for decades, and how that has led to foreigners buying up just about every bit of real estate, business, infrastructure we have'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only have we a deficit and a huge debt, but there just isn't anything to pay it with'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically means huge inflation and much higher taxes'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to get your ammo in and arm up for civil unrest'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually, there's a shortage of ammo here :D'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here, nobody is allowed guns'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so then you have 0% gun crime, right?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'erm, we have gun crime'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take out gang crime and mexican-border related crime and the UK has a higher violent crime rate than the uSA'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hey Tigernuts, is the UK seriously talking about banning cigarette sales to anyone born after 2000, or is that a plan that is going nowhere?'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people born after 2000 should already be banned from buying cigarettes for the next 4 years...'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yes, but they were going to contiune it, (miminum age would effectively keep going up until no one could buy them)'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hadn't heard that'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'sort of solves the problem of all the addicted people who suddenly wouldn't be able to get cigarettes with a straight ban.'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it's probably been suggested by some Doctors group, they're the ones that usually suggest banning them, or taxing sugar, or wrapping everyone in bubble wrap'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'if you hadn't heard it I assume it isn't getting any traction.'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the BBC can be trusted to print every fart that comes out of the Doctors POlitical Groups'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they didn't, so it probably wasn't even them'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you couldn't enforce such a plan anyway'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and despite them being a bunch of Nazi's, the government realise they're already fighting against a ever more liberal public'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does beg the question: with all the debt, all the poison, all the wars, why are they obsessed with a tiny minority smoking fags/'
T3/r7/2014-07-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, US deficit works out smaller per head than the UK's right now'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so in Livingston IL, Homeland Security sent a blackhawk helicopter, mulitple armored vans and dozens of heavily armed federal agents.... to arrest one guy who downloaded child porn'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, House price inflation in the UK hits 10.9%, inflation generally by the corrupt fucked up government measure is 1.9%'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'If it's like the housing market in most countries, it'll probably be -5% 6 months from now.'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'housing is always volitale'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it never dropped, here, it was stagnant for about 18 months during the crisis and that was about it. We have a chronic shortage of housing, so it won't drop'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or put another way, the value of the pound will drop further than any potential drop in house value'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Yeah, sucks to have 1% of the land that the US does.'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz blinks innocently.
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1% of the land, 20% of the population'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz nods.
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we could use a catastrophe to wipe 90% of the out, imho'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but you have the best Top Gear'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not for much longer'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'It's OK, I still get BBC America'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the socialist press keeps trying to get the cast fired and the series ended, it won't be long before they succeed'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I mean, it's a car show in the UK.  It's not like a show that highlights awesome cars is going to make the UK look good'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing that's kept it on the air at all is all the money the BBC makes from it. They might be a thinly disguised communist party propaganda machine, but they like their moollah'
T3/r7/2014-07-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't polish a turd, Madcatz'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, Obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone got a topic to rant wildly about?'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you mean you don't have one?'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'consider it like taking requests, but i invite others to have one :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the scientists out there: http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0701117v1.pdf'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Without any clan obligation, why would anyone want to pup before getting to T9? Go. :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are we talking strictly pups and the stuff you can buy with the gold/trains you get therein, or are you including qps and campaigns (and all the other rewards therein) with it?'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well I guess everything. More broadly: I'm convinced there's no real reason for me to stick around at T2/R+7, 201. However, people pup at any time and then tier again some day down the road. I know there's usually clan obligations (which I have none). I'd like to hear any counter argument though.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'wittle down some of the grind once you get t9? building up a nice hp/mana base to hit the ground running, gold run, larger pool of potential groupies and meeting new people, taking part of the epic areas'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sorvez: 'you wont see t9 until 2045 and want to see what the sitting thing is about before that'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, being that you already tiered (and assuming you aren't slow tierer who somehow still has an instinct rebuild event waiting for them), no need to pup for instinct.  You CAN pup for hp/mana/moves, but there's no real necessity for that now that every r7 at every tier can save 100% of their hp/etc for next tier.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Nah, I just banked all my trains many morts ago. Good arguments.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that leaves other sinks you're interested in.  Got all the gear you want to get?  Got all the wishes you want to get?  Are you itching for a manor, or if you have one already, for some particular upgrade?  What about area knowledge (general familiarity, goals/aqs, etc)?'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I know there are some SH goals that can be all-but-completed by a t0, but which have a "boss mob" at the end designed with at least t2 in mind (Takeda, Nyne, etc).  If you're into goalsolving, and haven't already sifted through, you could do that, pupping for no other reason than to train stats enough to make success a reality.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Makes sense, makes sense. I was acting under the assumption though that if you just want to accumulate QP for wishes, manor pots, etc. .. that the levelling path is better since leveling is easier at lower levels in general.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'questing isn't that tough at SH, aside from unfortunate selections in hard areas like crynn or wyrm.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'You get extra XP per quest at higher tiers, admittedly only 1 per quest but those could add up.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'campaigns are another matter entirely, simply because pretty much each cp is likely to have at least one mob you can't actually get to on a solo basis, but you can easily get around that with grouping.'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, that would mean that if you want to CP - you're better off levelling the DjDoodles "revolving door" way (just keep going around)'
T3/r7/2014-07-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'overall, unless bartlett is already somehow factoring tier into target selection, a good 90-95% of all targets are going to be soloable in every sense of the word for a t0r0.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'was the Malasian Airline plane shot down over Ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'Is it posible to have an invisible magical light that is uselful?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so a passenger airline gets shot down in eastern ukraine, the suggestion so far is the rebels accidentally shot it down. Why is the media not asking the single most obvious question?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'The most important question being: WAS THIS CONNECTED TO BENGHAZI???? WHAT DOES THIS DO TO HILLARY'S CHANCES IN 2K16???'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Puppied Oladon: '... 2k16? Is that somehow easier to type/say than 2016?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'It's more xtreme and marketable that way. Kids love it.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Puppied Oladon: 'Uh-huh...'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually the question i would pose is: They ground entire fleets of Boeing 777's for days at a time because a battery overheats, they redirect planes because of bad weather, why the fuck would they allow one to fly over a warzone where 5 other planes have been shot down in the last 2 weeks?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which genius allowed this?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently the only person questioning it is one Captain Sullenberger, veteran of the 2009 Miracle on the HUdson landing, an aviation expert'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Raded: 'Enter: Captain Hindsight! Okay, turning debate back off now. Peace out.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no-one on TV is asking the sensible questions, they're too busy trying to pin the blame on Russia'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps the plane was insured'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Malaysian Airlines planes probably aren't insurable at this point'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'ouch .. yeah '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meanwhile, while we're distracted, Israel's started some good old fashioned genocide in Gaza'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly being the victims of holocaust 75 years ago gives them justification to visit years of pain on other people who had nothing to do with it'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'how is it genocide if isreal told gaza citizens to get out?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'has nothing to do with them lobbing tockets .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they have nowhere to go, Howls'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xistence: 'because clearly you would let your neighbor throw turds over your fence daily while doing nothing about it.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vellius: 'off'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd be throwing turds over your fence if you'd moved that fence onto my land'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I'ld move my fence onto your land if you tried to invade my house.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is this the point you try and pretend Israel is the victim?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'that was infered a while back Tiggy '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xistence: 'is this the point where you try to pretend that Islam is the religion of peace?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've never pretended that, xistence, it's irrelevent'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Hamas tries to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible.  Israel tries to avoid killing civilians.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're trying really hard'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'human shield policy is norm for those types .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xistence: 'Isreal is not a perfect solution to an otherwise screwed up situation in the middle east, but they atleast allow for tolerance within their boundaries... no matter religion.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bullshit, they've been ethnically cleansing since 1948'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they wanted to stop the rocket attacks then they could meet Hamas conditions for a ceasfire, which was an immediate cessation of building settlements on occupied lands, and a lifting of the blockade'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone would think they were asking the world'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hamas has stated over and over again that their goal is to push the Jews into the sea.  They will not recognize Israel's right to exist.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xistence: 'Meeting the conditions only allows Hamas to rebuild their stockpile, so they can restart what they do each and everytime they open the blockades.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'better to let it escilate and get it over and done with .. it is war .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then expect casualties'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: '^'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xistence: 'they sling rockets till they run out, then play the victim... and then rebuild just to do it all over again.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'simplest answer is for isreal to just destroy the hamas before anyone else can react. easier to deal with the consequences later'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they get no benefit from destroying hamas'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd rather continue this pointless tit for tat game'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok destroying hamas would be very difficult and impractica., but it would be a HUGE benefit to Israel.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Sun Tsu had a lil to say on poloticians running military affairs .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could always send a peace envoy over, because they work well'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xistence: 'lets be honest, they'd rather peace... and to have hamas recognize and respect them.  If Isreal destroys Hamas they will become responsible for all the refugees they create.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'well they will send peace envoy's but nobody really expects much.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'course not'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about Israel and Gaza both get turned into glass parking lots. Job done'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'imagine if the world was like 12th century isreal would just kill everyone in gaza'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: '10/10 war is too complex now'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'can hardly call it war'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think of the benefits of the eradication of the entire area'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'more land for isreal?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there wouldn't be any Israel, Howls'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'israel*'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why stop there, along with Gaza and Israel, take out Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen, and Bahrain - you've then eliminated the lion share of the threat to the rest of the world'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'there we go problem solved'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HowlsCastle: 'a problem*'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one less problem :-) a quite costly problem at that'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've learnt something else. Russian anti-aircraft defences work'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok on to the Ukraine, how much trouble will the seperatits get in for probably shooting down a civilian jet?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'we dont know who shot it down yet'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'blame early , consider later .. we need headlines dammit !'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'CNN reports that Russian media is reporting that the Ukraine was trying to shoot down Putin, and accidently hit a civilian plane.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'd be like RT reporting on a Daily Mail story'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I missed the reference, id the Daily Mail reputable?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think for now i'll go with the most likely story, the rebels accidentally shot it down because some arsehole in the aviation authority thought it'd be a great idea to send passenger jets over a warzone'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the message to take away is: the people in charge of your safety are morons'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(or at the kindest, "fallable")'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'there is nothing as uncommon as common sense .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yeah after they Ukranians lost a transport plane that should have been a major red flag.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'transport plane in particular because it was shot down from a significant height. They also lost two fighters and a couple of helicopters recently, too'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'apparently the airliner was 1000 ft above a "safe zone" '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no safe zone'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'no shit . just an airline trying to save money taking the crow fles flight route '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I guess MH370 cost them alot of money. They need to save.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shouldn't have been a choice the airline makes, should be a choice that air traffic control makes'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'air traffic control across borders .. interesting  '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the airspace should have been closed, tzad'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I agree'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'they did. a NOTAM avoiding airspace under 32k I believe'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly inadequate, dp'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'it's an advisory. the pilot may have chosen to devitate to shave airtime..'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and the airliner was shot down 1k ft above that .. profit mongers not wanting to close the route '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then they have themselves to blame'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'we'll know through the black boxes what the pilots were thinking.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'if the russians doesn't fuck it up'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in their interests to fuck it up'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the plus side, the stock market was spooked, so some people will make a bunch of money'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the pilots just doing the job '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'probably Tzad, following company orders.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'were you aware you can no longer import AK-47's into the USA?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'It's ok Tiger we have plenty of weapons.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and if planned  short sell like 9/11 fund ur activities for a while '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good job'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't on the scale of 9/11, tzad'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'amazing how the Ukraine had completely dropped off of US televison the last two months.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why's it amazing?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'AK owner in Australia .. ... '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's old news'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'It was an active news story with plenty of stuff going on.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US creates problems elsewhere in the world, destabalises it, causes fights, move onto the next country'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be the same news every night though'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the sheeple want pic and new stuff ! '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I didn't hear about the Ukraine losing a transport until today.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i did :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'sells advertising '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people in the UK didn't hear about 5000 pro-palestinians protesting outside BBC studios yesterday, either'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you probably heard about Microsoft shedding 18,000 jobs though?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you probably also heard about Beyonce's MTV nominations'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'did those protesters get a visa check ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is the UK, Tzad, people don't get visa checks, they let any old criminal in'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Australia here .. thats how our counrty was foundered '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'we only too criminals .. :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be fair though, Tzad, Australias founders were mostly guilty for being impoverished without due care and attention'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit like the offence they brought in the UK after 9/11 of "Being black without due care and attention"'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'never has a ship voyage been so cheap as a loaf of bread ..  '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'they shipping em to Gaza ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't export anything, it's why we're so poor'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'we don't value add to the resuorces . is why we will be poor .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least you've booted that lame carbon tax into touch'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'yeah  .. and plan to give a personal rebate rather than put it all into reknewable energy .. smart move . '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i'm off, let's hope our leaders can lay off provoking more violence until morning'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our 'dear' leaders'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'good to see you still active Tiggy !'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dittos'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'this court is now in session'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'i disagree'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'The court is dismissed.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Khaleesi points HE did it!
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I object :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'IT Was HIM I saw HIM!'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'And what did he do...?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'THAT MAN over THERE '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: '"IT"'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which court?  Night court, drug court, family court, tennis court, food court?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): <pretitle> Scars points at you! How rude.
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'uuuh are we doing this right?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'He's a Dirty Bird.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Fi-Bot Fiain points excitedly at Some Guinness!
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Was that the culprit?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'Food court ...Ill bite. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'him with the suspicious face ! he did it .. trial by peers .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'Hiyooooooo'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Ok, who is the peanut gallery?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you mean, who isn't?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'True.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'It was Professor Plum with the wrench in the Library.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'alright .. I'm Guilty .. but I don't feel it .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'insanity ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I swear, it was Miss Scarlet, with the rope AND the candlestick!'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'i condemn you to five minutes in the naughty corner'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'By herself.'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'we in court not a porn movie .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'woohoo!  I win!'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khaleesi: 'GASP the naugty corner? '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'wait... couldnt it be BOTH things?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they have a nice selection of courtroom porn spoofs, yes'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's even one about Judge Judy'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Hans directed most of em :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'the subject of debate, judge judy porn, rock it or dont rock it. go'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'naw, my pole isn't long enough to hang from the director's chair yet'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ketta: 'hell no'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I like the premis od a "penalty " .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snowangel Tzadkiel assumes the role of executioner .. 
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '"right how's been naughty .. " '
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'can we form a firing squad instead?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which of you all would be shooting blanks?'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'deb flirting is hardcore .. try goss chan :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snowangel Tzadkiel comforts Hans for still shooting in 8mm 
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'instructions on a stick of antiperspirant: To get most out of product, push up bottom'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daikojun: 'see, I'm not saying people are stupid, I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the issue sort itself out...'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'You can't because if you don't point out the obvious, someone will find a silly reason to just sue you - because why? Because apparently your company is filthy rich and doesn't need any of its $.'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'complaining about the litigation culture?'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you basically brought it on yourself, it started in the USA and spread from there'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'no, blaming people because they're rich and you want their money is a Marxist idea.. so your continent buddy'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, we didn't start it'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and USA really is going the fastest in the descent towards Marxism atm, in a race with Europe'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'europe will win that race'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they probably won't because there are multiple governments involved'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'technically the USA has 51 governments.... '
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA is way ahead in terms of the militarised police'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'state government is dead'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't feel bad, the countries in the Euro zone are likewise now toothless'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're all in the shit and it's going to be a bumpy ride, best we can hope for is a gigantic world war'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of pointless posturing and threatening rhetoric coming out of the west today vs Russia but the fact remains, some idiot flew a passenger airliner over a warzone, and either the Ukrainians or the Rebels shot it down. The Ukrainians have been putting out fake propoganda today, and also there've been unconfirmed and probably not true reports that the plane was being flanked by two Ukrainiand jets up until a few minutes before the incident'
T3/r7/2014-07-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tonight, the BBC's biggest concern for some obscure reason is that the crash site isn't secure'
T3/r7/2014-07-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'rhavage is an imperialist pig!'
T3/r7/2014-07-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was a power gap?'
T3/r7/2014-07-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-07-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, western narrative on MH17 starts to look a little shakey'
T3/r7/2014-07-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meanwhile, Israel is continuing it's weapons-development-through-testing-them-on-kids-in-Gaza policy'
T3/r7/2014-07-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also wage gap'
T3/r7/2014-07-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whose wage gap?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Nearly all of the highest-profile domestic terrorism plots in the United States since 9/11 featured the "direct involvement" of government agents or informants, a new report says. Some of the controversial 'sting' operations "were proposed or led by informants", bordering on entrapment by law enforcement." '
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.hrw.org/node/127456 - not a happy report. UK is headed the same way, unfortunately'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also, a very interesting (if badly translated read) from the Russian equivalent of the CFR: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Friss.ru%2Fanalitika%2F3379-ukrainskij-krizis-opasnosti-i-ugrozy'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woopsy, key piece of video evidence for russian responsibility of malaysian plane has been debunked by.... of all people... facebook users!'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'where at?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'let me wear my tinfoil hat!'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fyi, sneak, video showing a buk launcher being transported, claimed by the west as evidence that the rebels had one, was actually a ukrainian launcher filmed in ukrainian held territory. It was featured in a Russian military briefing and evidence handed to the investigators'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can watch the briefing here'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://player.rutv.ru/iframe/video/id/822433/acc_video_id/610598/isPlay/false/time_play/1/http://player.rutv.ru/iframe/video/id/822433/acc_video_id/610598/isPlay/false/time_play/1/'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/mwfavk8'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'can you trust that source?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no more than you can trust any others. This is an information gathering stage, stuff is being found out, stuff is being debunked'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it sounds like you trust it anyway'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is an official russian military briefing though, so the 'source' is fine, is it propaganda? almost certainly'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i trust nobody :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing that everyone can agree on so far is that flight MH17 crashed after stupidly flying over a warzone resulting 290odd people died'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything else is unconfirmed evidence, speculation, propaganda, fabrication, or lies'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'yep, stupid. Airspace should have been closed'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'stupidly is a bit harsh. people fly over warzones all the time, because they expect that no rebel force will be able to shoot 10K high.'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'just thought about the way you presented that link. You said something was claimed by west, but actually it was in another way like that russian site said. Indicates that seem more inclined to believe the russian propaganda over the western'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, lachdanan, did they fly over north vietnam? iraq?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'they flew over Afghanistan.'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's your interpretation, ElFeneri, that isn't backed up by the facts. The western state media had been using the photos as 'proof', now debunked like the audio recordings between a rebel and a russian special forces guy. This will happen'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they're probably foolish for doing that too'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'my interpretation indeed'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insofar as who do i believe? well neither side are trustworthy, but certainly NATO has form'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'so you are not more inclined to believe the russians over the west?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd prefer to see where the evidence leads, but you cannot deny it's the west doing the fingerpointing'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'they sure do that, just like the rebels and russians says it was the ukranians that shot it down'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'russian media reportet it was shot down by ukranin army who thought that Putin was on that plane'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'reported*'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's telling that the BBC today have started moderating their rhetoric in the face of new information. They had been saying that the rebels shot it down, they're now reporting that it is being blamed on the rebels'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russian media, or russian government?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'media, but are they not controlled?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, but you can get away with lying through the media, much harder to do so as a government'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'nods'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'not sure why it's so important to get hold of the black boxes. They will certainly not reveal from where the missile came'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you then need to keep a tight reign on lunatics like McCain, Feinstein and Reid in case they say stupid shit... which they have'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they will record if they had to make a detour, and might give some insight into whether there was a ukrainian fighter shadowing them as RUssian radar suggests'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'what is important is to get access to crash site before anyone removes the evidence and residues of the missle that brought it down'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've had access to the crash site for some time, there should be no issue there short of bleating'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but unfortunately the rebel forces will not let investigators get unlimited access'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a fib, they're there right now'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'they were not allowed to go where they wanted the first days'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might have something to do with there being a war going on'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'or that they were busy removing rests from teh missle'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'missle'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'the crash site was tampered with before any officials arrived anyway'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it was, locals were mucking around there right from the get go, which is inevitable if you can't get a large police presence to the site very quickly'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the wreckage being strewn over 9km and no active policeforce means that was never going to happen in any circumstances'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides, the USA has satellite tracking of any missiles launched, they'll know exactly where they were launched from and can happily submit that information for scrutiny'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'are you sure about that?'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ukraine atc can release all the flight data for scrutiny'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, ElFeneri, I am'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'okay'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't, but they could'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in happier news, Rick the Dick Perry is sending national guard to the Mexico border, and in the UK Police use of Tasers is under scrutiny'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'loks like the ACA has had it....'
T3/r7/2014-07-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Federal Court of Appeals has struck down federal subsidies for all except the state exchanges'
T3/r7/2014-07-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like US government now backpedalling rapidly from earlier accusations that RUssia was involved in the shooting down of MH17, suggests abound that they're now trying to cover up that it was the Ukrainians by suggesting it was a Ukrainian defector'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'Isis is not a nice group. FGM should be an international crime.'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, not crash hot on the idea of them trying to outlaw cryptocurrencies on the grounds that "terrorists could use them"'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, the ukrainian prime minister and his entire cabinet resign'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'russia bombing ukraine for real'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'really ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'source?'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'reuteers'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'link ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'well.. pentagon:p'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they said they'd retaliate if any mortars strayed across the border again, and they'd be within their rights to'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'how long until the UN moves to back Ukraine .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm seeing Israel bombing a UN school in Gaza killing 15, not seeing Russia attakcing Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/24/russia-fired-ukraine_n_5618189.html?utm_hp_ref=world'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be a good time to do it, too, what with the collapse of the ukrainian government'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, huffpost, i thought it was a credible source :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy on the money '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the best!'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'time..'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so we'll put that in the unconfirmed pile, along with the "US has pictures of the Buk launcher that launched the missiles that downed MH17"'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i could quite believe both, they're still unsubstantiated'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'agreed'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when do sanctions on USA start because of Israel?'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'never happen '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'noone sanctions the US'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'course not, politicians are hypocrits'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dustpuppy: 'noone expects the spanish inquisition'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with the collapse of the ukrainian government, now would be a good time to sue for peace'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'you mean cave in to Russia ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i mean come up with some kind of federal solution'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or autonomous region'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure what constitutes "caving in to Russia" in this case'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'meaning the reigon becomes Russian'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the region is already russian'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Ukraine is not a soverign nation ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not at the moment, no'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hasn't been since the legitimately elected government was overthrown in a US funded coupe'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Ahh I believed the hype .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's essentially been in a state of civil war since'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its not a civil war. its a sneaky invasion'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a civil war'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'invasion'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'sneaky'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'nothing civil bout war .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is Ukraine resource rich ? or of some value ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'farming land'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the eastern part has those mines'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shale gas reserves'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oil pipelines'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'gas, coal'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'liebenstraum .. livingspace .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ports'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'gas is not yet available'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'OK .. so it's not a test .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'ports .. I get that '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'would you rather be an ape or a monkey?'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'new topic, not insult:p'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'lemur .. :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they are cute'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and randy as hell :P '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'monkeys are annoying. apes are sorta sad'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'compare the chimpanze with the lemur in social structure .. lemurs Rock !'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'being randy all the time can be a curse.'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'lemurs have a special place in my heart .. first time I couls argue  against the "lesbian is unnnatural" arguement was with lemurs :D'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'chimps are very lesbian'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'rape and murder are a part of chimp culture .. not part of lemur culture .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'by far the better social structure .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'once the evolution give big enough brains, the animals start using them creatively'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nothing wrong with that *hic*'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'lol I was searching for a pun  on the same lines , you beat me :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal bows deeply.
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snowangel Tzadkiel finger vost
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost peers intently at Snowangel Tzadkiel.
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'soz was wondering if you were still there .. and primed for deb .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was a neat peace today on the BBC about a group of women who are starting an anti-feminist movement'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i gave a resounding cheer and thumbs up to them'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'equal rights .. all anyone ever wanted .. imo '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern feminism being a social engineering tool deployed on the slow witted and simple minded in order to control and divide society'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no different to racism, religionism, or gayism'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did you want to debate, tzad/'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'was just perk the Ukraine  ... civil war '
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'good to see you still round Tiggy :) the chann lives :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh well'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ukraine usually descends into a "you just hate the west and are pro russia"'
T3/r7/2014-07-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I'm of that ilk .. but interested in the process '
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate the Turkish regime and their dictator, Erdogan, but he did come out with a classic statement that was abouton the money today'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'what he say?'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"[Israelis] have no conscience, no honor, no pride. Those who condemn Hitler day and night have surpassed Hitler in barbarism," said Erdog(an. He accused Israel of rejecting ceasefires that Hamas has proposed and "spitting death, spitting blood."'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'surpassed hitler.... Kden '
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a flavour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6hcC-rKLGo'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Given that Gaza is the world's biggest prison, and houses 1.7 million people, Erdogan isn't far from the truth, especially once they start bumping them off in great numbers'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Netanyahu has a way to go yet, though'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'spiders. pure evil?'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'like Putin?'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SaplingGuy: 'gets rid of other bugs and insects for us'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'http://memebinge.com/uploads/seems-reasonable-shoot-spider-with-pistol-mb.jpg'
T3/r7/2014-07-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i shot a wasp once. then the other wasp stung me'
T3/r7/2014-07-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Bell Labs researchers broke the internet speed record over copper lines.....10 gigs per second.'
T3/r7/2014-07-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Bell Labs researchers just broke the broadband Internet speed record. It is eight times faster than the previous record -- and it was done over copper landlines.  With speeds of 10 gigabits per second, Bell Labs' technology proved to be 1,000 times faster than traditional broadband speeds'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oo, federal judge strikes down DC's ban on handguns. What's the betting they ignore the ruling'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'yes lets ban "assault weapons", handguns, knives over six inches in length, rape the constitution, and give every police officer in the country body armor AND ar15's'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'i like where this is going'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'with all due resepct, 2USAmend's intent was to have the citizenry armed against a possible attack by the government. It was not intended to have gun users attack other citizens.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'which is what they are being used for.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'social darwinism ? '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'and criminals dont follow gunlaws, not to mention the rising rate of government attacks on citizens'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, I haven't seen any troops marching down Main street yet. Perhaps the Main street in your town has had them.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'regardless, you can have all the gun control you want or all the uncontrolled ones, just don't invoke the 2nd amendment because that is not its intent.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'just say "I like to kill therefore I want to be armed" :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'at the very least you'll get points for honesty :>'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I live in Australia and strict gun laws .. I can stil buy pretty much what ever I want but is sub rosa .. at least if legal I am known .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the hot topic in the US are not handguns, they want to use 2USAmend to justify assault weapons.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'so you think civillians should be banned from carrying any kind of gun because troops arent martching in the streets yet, sounds legit'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Because we should be allowed to own any gun we wish? :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I own an AK - 47 for home defence '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'as long as you allow me to carry bazookas, I have no problem with what you carry.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'carry a concealed brain'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so why not a few SAMs, too? Just in case they come by helicopter.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'please dont be one of those oh god'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'home invasion . I want anything ove a bazooka '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'park a Sgt. York on you front yard, have some claymores seeded in you backyard and you are as good as rain.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and if you don't like the guy knocking at your door, release some nerve gas. You will be untouchable.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'I can't afford any of that, not after I ordered my bazooka lmao'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'some people actually live in neighborhoods where break ins happen man'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yeah, it happens in all neighborhoods.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'SWAT was in my backyard a year ago, raiding the house 2 yards over..'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but while those who arm themselves for protection wait for an invasion, they meander down the street and shoot some kid who they thought was about to mug them.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Good, one less person for me to worry about mugging me. :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the operative word was "thought"'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'You do know that happens very rarely right?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'of course, if you are going to protect yourself, preemptive attacks are the best protection.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'so youre say... if you own a gun, youre probably going to go out and shoot a child with it?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Lets talk about gun control within police forces.. shooting dogs and kids..'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure, it happens very rarely, SnoWolf? What difference does  that make to the dead person?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'So, one person's mistake justifies condeming everyone else to getting really mugged? That's wonderful logic.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'i find anti gun arguments rarely contain logic'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'tbh I'm not gonna accept some limp wristed touchy feely solution to something I can prevent .. I jog early in the morning and I live rural .. a while  away from police response .. not gonna be the girl that didn't wear armor or didn'r have the capabilitiy to dfend .. would rather jail'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you can say the eulogy: Rest in peace my friend and take comfort in the fact that this doesn't happen very often.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'People who make that mistake, typically lose their right to own a firearm for life. So it's one and one for that person. Sucks for them, "too bad you looked suspicious and that MrCrazy shot you for no reason" But I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone make the argument that just because "it does happen" that I shouldn't carry a firearm for MY protection.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'damn straight, Tzadkiel'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'and if I shoot someone on accident, that's on me, I wouldn't expect anyone else to give up their gun over it either'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so you claim that you are afraid, so the solution is to shoot anyone you figure is planning to harm you. Of course, you will not let any of your personal prejudices influence whom you shoot.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'see, there you. You kill soeone and it's "oops, my bad". Is that going to raise the person from the dead?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Owning and carrying a gun does not in any way imply that that person is going to just "shoot anyone" wtf'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but they do'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'nobody said anthing about shooting randoms lol'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'It's black or white isn't it? No gray, none at all.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnapDragon Shazam pulls out a shotgun ready to shoot zombies!
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'not random, someone whom you think it's out to get you. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you just happen to be wrong about the intent. But hey, better safe than sorry.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'what if people ARE out to get you? what then?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I'll never have a firearm licence and body armor is illegal  in Australia .. Krav Maga training and some good firends a re a counter . and I jog  when and where I want .. oviuous not in  no go zones .. but I have my freedom back .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'I've had several credible death threats in recent years. I haven't just shot the person who's made it when they're walking down the street. Better believe I'm wary, but I'm not trigger happy.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, that's a good argument for shooting anyone. I shot him just in case, Your Honor. Case dismissed.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'don't forget to send flowers to the family. The least you could do, unless you know how to resurrect people... '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'answer the question. what do you do when you are one hundred percent sure that you are being robbed or someone is breaking into your house?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Aphelion, who have you lost to a random shooting?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'accidental shooting is not the issue .. spree kills is the issue .. imo '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't  know what I would do, I do know I am not going to just shoot someone because I think they are going to do something to me. Those thoughts a laced with prejudice, they are based on one's conception of who will harm them, without any connection to reality.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Wilding if they are smaller than me I'll just take em down , if male , they wear a bullet . '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'you dont know what you would do if you were being robbed? Kden'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, so that's one prejudice, any man near you is in  danger of being shot if you happen to think they are harmful.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'That can be said about anyone ever Aphelion, I guarantee my car is just as dangerous, and if someone is following me and I didn't have a gun, I'd run them over. Guess you'd better ban cars too..'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I'm 5'6" and 65 kg .. not many thugs that size '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Or my knife, it's only got a 3 inch blade, but that's long enough to hit most arteries'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Or my pen or pencil.. >.>'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the point is that you don't know who the thug is, but you are going  to take out someone whom you think is a thug, regardless.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'You're not making a good argument that targets guns specifically, just seem anti-self-defense'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I am anti- having to worry about getting shot by some paranoid moron while I walk down the street.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'at this point you dont even have an argument, aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'have you ever been mugged?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'How about a paranoid moron behind the wheel of a 2000+lb vehicle?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'OR do you just look like a creep who follows people and seems intimidating?'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, no. I am hard to mug :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'bottom line there are going to be incidents in ur life where you need a force multiplyer .. and if ur a law abiding citizen  (for the most part ) then . if it's warranted .. you need the best you can afford .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but, if you shoot me you are the mugger.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'well i have and it sucks, but having a weapon helps so ill keep my guns thanks'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Not everyone is hard to mug. And It's not a mugging if they don't touch you or take anything ;p'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'havent shot one kid yet bro '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure, and if you make a mistake and kill someone who had no idea you existed but happen to be in your radar, then no big deal, shit happens.'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you are just an agent of the grim reaper :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Fucking right, kill 'em all, let god sort them out'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'have a good evening :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Err, sorry ^.^;'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'yup unncle sam trained me well mwahaha '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'nah .. I risk years in jail to feel safe .. and that sux .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Feral Wife Snowolf: 'Hooah'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'semper fi do or die! Hooah hooah gung-ho!'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'that debate was over anyway. 'ive never been the victem of a violent crime but i think guns should be banned because gun owners MIGHT use them to shoot children' is not a valid standpoint'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I'm batshit crazy .. anyone that knows me wil atest to that but I keep an AK-47 a tmone and jog with a 10mm colt and kevlar .. and I have to associate with criminals to arm both weaps .. .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'wouldrather not associate with criminals .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'but its hard out here for a pimp, word'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'lol I have a normal job .. normal .. well sorta life ..  just jane doe citizen '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'jusat not gonna get raped cause I don't carry . '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'but youre not six feet tall and 200 pounds so you want to feel safe when you jog, thats fair'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'seriously'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'sux that I get years jail for ensurring my saftey '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Aust gun laws suck .. emd of story .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and hot tip .. you want kevlar .. model jets .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'winf rots .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'wing rots .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'wing roots .. '
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnapDragon Shazam: 'got to thank jacob zuma also'
T3/r7/2014-07-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'she was hannah montanna when Bush was president. thanks obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm, in California, the homeless are to be rounded up and locked up in FEMA camps'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'those are for happy children!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently being homeless is a crime in some parts of the USA'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there was a woman who's 'ambition' was to be a begger.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good money in it'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'certainly. and for nothing but your dignity, if you ever had any.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'beggars in London had been said to be making upwards of $200 a day while also claiming welfare'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of jobs aren't dignified, as is living off welfare'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so John Kerry got punked by the Israelis today, have you guys had enough of them yet?'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing a nice big nuke dropped on Tel Aviv wouldn't solve, I guess'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rampager: 'Wow this channel exists!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Looks like Rampager is lying again. Time to let everyone know!
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rampager laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost gasps as he realizes what Rampager did.
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'once you're done nuking Israel, then nuke Sweden'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): ElFeneri raises an eyebrow at Tigernuts's weird actions.
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then Germany'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Heeey! Don't nuke sweden. We're neutral!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have to go, you set a bad example to stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): ElFeneri fluffles Tigernuts's fur mercilessly.
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hey, even us Merkins know that the neutral one is Switzerland and not Sweden (just don't ask us to point y'all out on a map)'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok I'll alsk, why nuke Sweeden?'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you couldn't even find your own states on a map, generally'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The El Drakoth: 'less nukes more love'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'We're neutral too!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Because Tiger likes to nuke and dislikes Sweden I suspect'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'We let the nazis use our railway, until they started losing, then we didn't anymore. See? Neutral.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't dislike Sweden, but they always pointed to by socialists as the epitome of socialism'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Yes, Engelbrekt division. But as a thanks the germans send us a V2 rocket prototype. It landed in Småland.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ilyadus: 'Cleanest streets in the world!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'easy to have clean streets when you don't have many people'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'how dare you have clean streets!!!!!!!!!!!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'so go nuke those socialists instead and you won't hear it again'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Sweden is great, except for the taxes. The taxes suck. :('
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ilyadus: 'Lots of people clean streets...Pay a tax...If you throw something on the ground lol'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's socialism, there are no tax :-)'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'and Kalles Kaviar is also great. You don't find that in many other places. Just like salty licorice. Yes, Sweden is amazing!'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ilyadus: 'Tell me that when you actually go to Sweden.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'and I'm not so sure about these clean streets you're talking about. I've seen clean streets in Singapore and in Las Vegas. In Sweden they look like streets look anywhere else.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, nuke em :-), but only after Israel'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Nah, I hate long waits. Start with Sweden if you really have to to it.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you hate long waits? you'd be no good in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'why is that?'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we excel at long waits'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I see'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'a patient people?'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'The queueing capitol of the world. :D'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Nah, they're just orderly and polite.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm convinced having no options can be equated to being patient'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Almost like us swedes. It takes us 4-5 thank yous to make a purchase at the grocery store.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as of 2011, Sweden spent more as a percentage of GDP on health than the UK'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'It's not such a bad thing to have a capacity for standing in line. I remember going through a border in S America and people just rushed the customs willy nilly. It didn't seem to make anything go faster.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while queing at homeland nutgroping entering America, the mexicans and south americans were pushing in and queue jumping, it nearly caused a fight'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'they grew bored of traditional queing'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I don't think they got bored. I don't think they knew the concept at all.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were just rude arseholes'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Tell you the truth, I don't even think they were rude. They just didn't know queueing. It was foreign to them.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'maybe it was a mix of rude, ignorant and impatient people.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well then, Sweden gets a reprieve, must nuke Mexico'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): ElFeneri wipes his brow with obvious relief.
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Find when it's in Mexico, or S America. I'd just rather they didn't bring the behavior to the States.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'fine*'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too late'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and now another 3m on the way'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Kind of nice up where I live. Very few illegal immigrants. Not much to draw them here. A temporary reprieve, probably.'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'interesting: http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/07/23/1409860111'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'P-nas.org? lOL'
T3/r7/2014-07-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'that was your first impression of the url :)'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'war hasn't yet been decalred in all directions'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some serious exaggeration of Ebola going on in the media tonight'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the fucked up news of the night award goes to the story where 6 vehicles full of DHS agents raided a house and seized ....... a 25yr old Land Rover Defender'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because..... it fails to comply with CO2 regulations ...... despite having a classic car exemption'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to think of a situation where they'd do that here... ic an't think of one, i think your federal government has gone a bit off the rails'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'the sad thing about that story is that it more than likely actually happened'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well law enforcement in the USA seems to be going down the "steal things for personal and professional gain" route'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were you, i'd want to nip that in the bud'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's something you can fix at the state level with a law making civil confiscation illegal'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a turf war between state troopers + sheriffs and the feds would be a pretty good ting'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'cops are corrupt everywhere you go, the poliece arent the problem in this country more than the fact that the federal government lets these agencies do whatever the hell they want with not one finger wagged to date'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing you as people can do is take action at a local/state level. The feds are untouchable by virtue of the fact your voting power is diluted by the haemoraging mass of criminally retarded people that occupy most countries'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know if the UK is in any better state: we have considerably more draconian and vague laws on the book, it's just the police are much quieter about using them'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'things need to change but i assure you that things have to get much worse before here before they are going to get any better. '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how much worse?'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'honest opinion'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your dishonest opinion is of little use to anyone'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'damn near an american holocaust'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, well then we're of similar opinions, humanity essentially needs almost wiping out before normality can resume'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'peace starts at home Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'too many people are in denial even at THIS point for me to believe anything short of that would get the masses moving. for now all i see is an endless sea of apathy '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'no justice, no peace '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'home, Arnica? few in the UK can afford a home'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'yea you guys have it rough right now '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK are being made a nation of rent slaves'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well in that case, the best i can hope for is that the west gets too beligerent over Ukraine and Russia responds with nukes'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'you mean the soviet union? nah they wouldnt attack the west for something as small as that'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you see israel taking the opportunity given by Isis to wipe Gaza off the map, if Ukraine/RUssia drags on, you'll probably see China take the opportunity to take a nibble at someone, it's all get a bit testy'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russia wouldn't unless provoked, but the trouble is, the way USA/EU are going, they're provoking, and provoking, and provoking'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i for one would like Putin to tell Obama to fuck off already'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone needs to'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'we can provoke them all day but unless we strike first putin wont do a damn thing'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure where that one'll go yet'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would imagine Russia will probably let Donetsk go'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'yea... as if we have any right to tell them what to do '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the trouble for them is, where do -they- draw the line?'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'lol i imagine free pussy riot '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at what point does it become a matter of principle?'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'i still cant get over that'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'whoa whoa whoa "principal"? next youre going to start throwing terms like "morality" out there'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, principals aren't something our respective countries can claim to have anymore'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'that kinda thinking is dangerous bro, way too progressive for our times'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, best stick with being hypocrits, that's easier'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, would porting Ebola to Guatemala solve the US border crisis?'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'oh youre onto the ebola thing too huh?'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'onto?'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aware of, yes'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i take an interest in what's going on outside of facebook, oh noes! must be a terrorist'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'or some kind of communist '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, right wing extremist, because anyone who can tie their shoelaces must be a capitalist pig'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'im sick of all these damn terracommucapamarixist assholes'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i rated -0.43,-4.3 on the old political spectrum which makes me a fractionally left of centre libertarian'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'ew youre a libertarian? you voted for obama'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'libertarians don't vote for obama, that'd be like jews voting for hitler'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently some did, that turned out well for them'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'lmfao'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wait a minute, aren't I supposed to be wracked with guilt at how badly jews were treated in WW2? '
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think they wore that card out in 1947'
T3/r7/2014-07-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if any jews online were offended by these comments.... well there's your luck'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LiQ: 'I have a bone to pick with the letter A. If a=a and a+1=b and a+2=c. Why can't a+b+c=d?'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LiQ: '*cricket'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LiQ: ' *cricket'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'since when can it not '
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LiQ: 'if a=0 && a+1=b && b+1=c && c+1=d. what is D'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'not here to do your homework'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LiQ: 'dang ok :p'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'LOL Sneak :P'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'true story'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'do you think that there will be a war? i mean - putin gets cornered and 90% russians adore him and hate westerners'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'If Ukraine keeps shelling border crossings, Putin will be forced to respond'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and he'd be right to do so, i'm surprised he hasn't acted already in the face of provocation'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'he has.'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why are the democrats tacking a $225m funding of Israel's missile defence to a immigration bill that they know the republicans won't pass?'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd have thought that Israel should fund it's own missile shield if it's hell bent on killing brown children'
T3/r7/2014-07-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what has he done, hwuaj?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why does Christine Lagarde of the IMF thing that energy taxes on the world will somehow fix a perceived problem with environmental damage and global warming?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If gasoline costs $100 per gallon, consumption will drop by, hmm...95-99%?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that helps anyone how, because suddenly nobody can afford to live'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'of course then everyone would use coal, but if a suitably draconian regime (yay leftists) grinds everyone under iron heels, we'll all die poor and the climate will be saved'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, because everyone will just burn everything'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a stupid idea, and besides, who does she think she is?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Then the black electric helicopters come and shoot you, and eventually people stop'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't be electric, tyrants are immune from the taxes/laws on energy'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'she's a chicago leftist, she's part of historic inevitability'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Lagarde'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's french, which is probably worse because she'll smell'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as well as being stupid'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, she spent most of her career working for a chicago-based law firm of some sort, iirc'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't that like a self-inconsistent thing? Chicago law?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I hear Chicago is a paragon of virtue, and always has been'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'nothing bad can come from Chicago'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'except for people, ideas, products and organizations'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl. classic, giraffe died on route to a sanctuary by hitting it's head on a bridge'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada rolls on the floor laughing at Tigernuts's antics!
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shock horror, immigration/border bill didn't bass'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pass*'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good day on the stock market'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dow Jones down 316 points, someone's going to make some money today'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'not enough to be a correction though'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd have to go down, what, 8000?'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'what is it something like 5%'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '300 316 points is barely 2%'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a correction... 5-20'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a correction... 5-10%'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not much of a correction, it doesn't then correctly value things'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'according to google and a quick non researched look a correction is 10-20%'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that might be a 'definition' of a correction, but in terms of correcting the actual market value of things, it'll need more than 10-20%'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but there's a whole lot of other problems that need solving, like inflated asset prices'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'property prices need to drop 40%'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl: Jerry Brown "Climate Change will drive Mexicans north"'
T3/r7/2014-07-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Argentina defaults on debt'
T3/r7/2014-08-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'An English blogger writing for the Nomen Global Language Center in Utah was fired for posting about 'homophones' last week after his employer said the word was too close to 'homosexual' and 'homophobe.''
T3/r7/2014-08-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think your country needs to commit suicide out of shame'
T3/r7/2014-08-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, and another tax-payer funded lawsuit is on it's way, enjoy :-)'
T3/r7/2014-08-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i heard ebola is a CIA's evidence'
T3/r7/2014-08-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i dont remember if i heard it or just made it up'
T3/r7/2014-08-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oops. experiment. not evidence'
T3/r7/2014-08-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you made it up :-)'
T3/r7/2014-08-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russia looks set to make it's second foray into the sanctions market with a ban on foreign airlines overflying it's airspace'
T3/r7/2014-08-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's first was a ban on certain imported Polish fresh foods, a move that will cost Poland as much as 0.3% of their GDP'
T3/r7/2014-08-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'So either there's a whole bunch of nerds/geeks buying it, or you're wrong'
T3/r7/2014-08-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-08-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, US, UK, and EU politicians are crying blue murder at the announcement from Russia of bans on food imports from them. They decry the sanctions as 'politically motivated'....... And the sanctions on Russia weren't?'
T3/r7/2014-08-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kreuzen: 'are ninja pibow cases good?'
T3/r7/2014-08-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'if your company is other 15 year old boys, sure!'
T3/r7/2014-08-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kreuzen: 'indy, picturing me as a 15 year old boy again eh'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yay, USA now arming BOTH sides in the Iraq conflict!'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh. what could possibly go wrong'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'U-S-A! U-S-A!'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Amurrica! (Fuck yeah!) Coming along to save the mutherfuckin' day, yeah, Amurrica!'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'we're just trying to save everyone's day equally  :x'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdJRDpLHbw'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like it was written for the purpose'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'haha'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you need any support, call on us Brits, we know all about creating and giving up empires'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'ha'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the synopsis of that is it's far less hassle and considerably cheaper to let countries do their own thing, and just trade with them/buy them up'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'come bonk the winner over the head after, lol'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no bonking'
T3/r7/2014-08-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'booo'
T3/r7/2014-08-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'm8  :P'
T3/r7/2014-08-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, not really'
T3/r7/2014-08-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so Robin Williams becomes the latest victim of SSRi's'
T3/r7/2014-08-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how screwed up is it that my bank are offering me (unasked) an unsecured load for $25k at 4.9%, yet won't offer me a secured 80% LTV mortage at 5.2%?'
T3/r7/2014-08-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daikojun: 'sadly, different departments.  I've been in that situation before.  No problem refinancing my home for money but I can forget the $10k loan request I made.'
T3/r7/2014-08-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well such is the way here, nobody can afford anywhere to live, but they'll happily give out unsecured loans like candy'
T3/r7/2014-08-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so are USA taking action against ISIS now that their pet terrorists are getting into places they weren't supposed to go?'
T3/r7/2014-08-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hear Ferguson, Missouri is nice at this time of year'
T3/r7/2014-08-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are democratic reps and governors calling for martial law to take down the uppity niggers in Missouri while republican senators are calling for calm and the demilitariazation of the police? Isn't that backwards?'
T3/r7/2014-08-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Moving to debate from music as this is unpleasantly realistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktQ6EkeJ2sE'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's who the west are supporting in Ukraine, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the west has yet to get it's hands dirty there .. '
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not so'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'funding a coupe and putting neo-nazi's in charge doesn't constitute getting it's hands dirty?'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I call that smudged '
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and their hands are pretty much covered in shit over ISIS'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't we just load up all the people in charge on a rocket and fire them at the sun?'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '.. boots on the ground .. that dirty hands'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still think the best thing to do i th emiddle east is up sticks and leve them to it, withdraw all support from saudi arabia, turkey, israel, remove all the sanctions to'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'double .. shush'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh?'
T3/r7/2014-08-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might as well just start with the nukes since nobody is interested in peace'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) THE T12 VintEdge: 'halo'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an angel?'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why is it ok for Democrat goons to attempt an ill-judged indictment against Republican governor Rick Perry (who on the charges has done nothing wrong), yet it's the world falling down around our ears if republicans consider impeaching devil-chimpanzee incarnate Obama?'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps both should happen, except obama wouldn't get a fair trial because impeachment is not decided by a jury of the public'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'devil-chimpanzee?'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'obviously you are either immensely rich or you pay no taxes. An impeachment procedure would just waste the taxpayers' hard earned money.'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're right, i pay no tax in the USA :-)'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you're right, an impeachment would be a waste of money because it wouldn't actually work, or achieve anything other than highlight the nature of power creep and wrongdoing by the office of the president'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, you would also have to agree that indicting Rick Perry is likewise a waste of taxpayers money, as is every time that a policeman beats up a citizen, prevents them from filming/taking pictures, or otherwise behaving in a thuggish manner that ends up in a lawsuit'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure it would be a waste of money.'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but a point about the creeping of the power of the president. Why attack it now? Obama didn't invented and he is certainly not the prime example of presidential abuse of power. So there must be another reason for the impeachment. Like, make him look suspect in time for the next elections?'
T3/r7/2014-08-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, he is the prime example'
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bet that cop is impressed by the fact that CNN put his address and a map to him on tv'
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they did it "without malice" :)'
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'send CNN the bill'
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-g 4'
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'another ukrainian fighter jet got shot down over eastern ukraine. I guess the rebels must be winning on $$ damage so far'
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is fun, too: '
T3/r7/2014-08-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfnuug5CA8k&list=UUzUV5283-l5c0oKRtyenj6Q'
T3/r7/2014-08-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'national guard called out to Ferguson, Missouri, outsiders including the Fed-run New Black Panther Party have come in and are stirring up violence - i'm sure it'll all end well'
T3/r7/2014-08-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mm, Army preparing to use lethal force against unarmed civilians during riots. Nice'
T3/r7/2014-08-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hmm, the KKK is out patrolling the Ferguson area to help keep it safe for residents...'
T3/r7/2014-08-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they are known for their community involvement :>'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would the KKK be patrolling in a black area? The Fed-run New Black Panthers have been out there causing trouble and inciting violence'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'because they're shit disturbers  :x'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i haaven't seen any footage of that'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's the source?'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'logical'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so no source just something you made up? :-)'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'got a better idea? :P'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, 101yr old new jersey man celebrated his birthday with his work colleagues - the guy still works'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140816/02260728229/how-various-law-enforcement-agencies-could-hack-your-computer-via-youtube-videos.shtml'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'here they're looking for someone to prosecute for the 'purge scare''
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you didn't need to make shit up, the Outcasts have turned up, which is probably a more credible scare thing'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and apparently police gunned down a nutjob wielding a knife, too'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'way to go de-escalating, police'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'and another nut job with a gun. day or 2 after'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'they claim it's unrelated, heh'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you've got the feds busing in race baiters from chicago, so what do you expect?'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i predict it'll be the NBP that cause the violence, they've already been caught on tape pushing/shoving journalists and threatening them with violence if they record them (probably a response to the fact that a NBP chant calling for the death of the police officer got caught on video)'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'STL cops shot a shoplifter who thought it prudent to go back for seconds, there's gonna be another riot.'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'so much violence'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's like we're jealous of LA or something.'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'shoplifter -> looter? or actual regular shoplifter?'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wouldn't a looter wait until nobody's there?  This guy went in during normal business hours and discreetly filled up all his pockets, then ran out the door.'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he would've gotten away cleanly, without the cops ever being called, if he hadn't gotten greedy.'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'so the police shot and killed a small-time thief?'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'let me guess, and i'm just gonna go out on a limb here... unarmed black guy?'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, not unarmed.  He was brandishing a knife, almost begging (daring?) the cops to shoot him.'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <pretitle> Scars: 'do they not issue non-lethal weapons to the STL area police officers?'
T3/r7/2014-08-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they're only supposed to use those on schoolkids.'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, so there are now the startings of university censoring what their students look at on dorm wifi'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course the simplest solution is for those kids to get their own internet access, problem solved, but not a great precedent'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'Is that even allowed by law?'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it is, it's a service you're agreeing to'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's fucked up, but it's legal'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now, if an isp retroactively applies it.....'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'Yes but what if they accedentally stumbled upon porn?'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can't, it's blocked'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'porn, social media, political content all blocked'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'Good thing. Think of the poor little innocent souls'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'innocent? most kids in the Uk would have been sexually active for 6 years and have a pumped out a couple of kids by that point'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'Yes, I was being sarcastic'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'I could only think of a valid reason to block massive down/upload networks'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's the sort of blocking that's about 15 years too late'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'simplest just not to use it, in fact if i were the students i'd demand they remove the wifi routers'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK government tried to pull shit like this on the entire country via the ISP's'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'In our country that's forbidden now'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when they realised they couldn't legally make a porn/content filter compulsory they made it an opt-in at signup default opted in. The take up rate ranged from 3-9%'
T3/r7/2014-08-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'how many people you can manage with one kalashnikov? im sure there is a formula somewhere. cant find the answer in the users manual.'
T3/r7/2014-08-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a news headline here "IQ Scores descreasing" that is clearly bollocks'
T3/r7/2014-08-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people are definitely getting more stupid, but IQ's are not going down'
T3/r7/2014-08-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'when the allowed radiation level was too low after tzshernob7l, they rised it. '
T3/r7/2014-08-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Peer: 'besides all the rubbish about chernobyl and pripyat being haunted, anyone know of a haunted spot in ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-08-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the bodega down the street.'
T3/r7/2014-08-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Chernobyl is in Belarus, not Ukraine, no?'
T3/r7/2014-08-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, news is Ukrainian belligerence is being called - Russia sent the aid convoy in after a week of Ukrainian procrastination. Ukraine are calling it an invasion, the media are, like me, amused by their response'
T3/r7/2014-08-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'If Ukraine will attack the convoy and Russia will kick the shit out of them in response, Unfortunately that's wishful thinking'
T3/r7/2014-08-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in consumer news, Shoppers in Europe have only 9 days left to buy a decent vacuum cleaner before their sale/import is made illegal'
T3/r7/2014-08-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'women. our 1st lady kissed with a French dude and fled the country. oh no!'
T3/r7/2014-08-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'these news cover up all the Ukraininan ones. that's so sad'
T3/r7/2014-08-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'need to get some o' dat slick willy spine in 'er'
T3/r7/2014-08-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'our president is a guy who has a nice apartment. not much more than that. the 10xaverage salary too. but not much else'
T3/r7/2014-08-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no real function'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuckwit democrate Mike Honda from fuckwit state California is trying to bad the sale and possession of body armor'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come on, body armor is legal even in the UK, where you can't carry a spoon in public without being arrested for carrying a weapon'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so what's the argument against body armor?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hey, lots of people are killed by body armor every year...think of the children!'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the argument is likely that drug lords are using it to mow down policy with impugnity'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'police*'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mike Honda the fuckwit argued that it threatens a 'legitimate' premacy of force by the police'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'they're only rewriting the 1st amendment randomly. what's the big deal'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'body armor?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'body armor isn't at all related to freedom of speech, press, and the right to gather peacefully.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so even if police aren't the only ones carrying, body armor undermines the carrying of weapons by the pols?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's his argument, yes'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you know if government opposition just went around with body armor that's kinda ok to me'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his argument is flawed at the base level'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'obviously.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need to be a bit worried when any politico tries to use the old "legitimate monopoly on force" argument, it's a soundbite that has been deliberately and carefully applied since the early 90s'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'does he have supporters?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'body armor's meant to withstand certain calibers, so BANG! BANG! you're not dead!'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if i was the police i'd be happy that i didn't kill someone'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'like the sith requesting emergency powers'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it still hurts like hell i think'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, he has supporters, he's a democrat from the same fuckwit state as that witch, whatever her name is'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the one obsessed with getting all guns banned'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the one who mysteriously made $100m since becoming a member of congress'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'now it starts to make sense, after she bans civilian weapons, his argument for body armor starts to become valid. Of course that's if it happens at all.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tiger: what's the story with the vaccuum cleaners?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's unlikely to pass because there are still areas of the US who've elected members who aren't fuckwits'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, EU is banning sale of vacuum cleaners above 1600W from Sep 1st, effectively outlawing 5 of the top 7 cleaners on the market'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typical EU meddling in stuff it has no business doing'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it'll never pass federally, but they could do it in CA senate/house'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ahh, global warming/save the world?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gerugon: 'yeah meddling with stuff that makes the world a better place, how dare them'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'is that because of the high rate of penis injuries to the EU concillors?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You grin evilly at him.
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how does making everyone buy shitty vacuums help make the world a better place?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gerugon: '... you made my point'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'instead of using a 1600W cleaner for 1 hour, we'll use a 1000W one for 3 hours'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hanslanda sings "He's in love with a Hoover"
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gerugon: 'no they wont, they still only clean for 1 hour'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'nah.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gerugon: 'they ensure that dumb people act properly'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they'd mandated that vacuum cleaners carry a efficiency rating, much like they do here for fridges/freezers, then fine'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only took 3 versions, so I have to agree.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oops, mis'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'one thing that I always got a kick out of was the noise of vaccuum cleaners...it's mostly artificial...they can make super-strong vaccuum cleaners really quiet, but people don't buy them because they don't sound powerful enough'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU is having to shell out $130m on damages to farmers this year as a result of sanctions on Russia, so great, the tax payers has to pay for their ignorant and short sighted foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably the same sort of issue that have electric vehicles add to noise pollution'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'electric vehicles add to pollution period'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, people are getting used to EVs being noiseless now though'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so they now add "engine noise" as a known-fake-but-cool feature'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for vaccuum cleaners, they haven't "come clean" about it yet'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You are cheered on by Tigernuts... you feel so loved! 
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as far as regulations go, it sucks'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the USE of them doesn't add to pollution, it's just that they draw on a source of power based mostly on fossil fuels.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only that, their manufacture is more polluting'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'I agree with your point but it is still better than straight fossil fuels? At least some electric comes from better sources than fossil fuels'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'So you'd rather just straight gas then?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'studies show that even in a country with a vastly renewable energy mix (Norway), an electric car will barely break even against a decent modern diesel over the car's lifetime'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in UK or USA it's a nobrainer, and that's without considering the problems from pollution from the electric car's bateries'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to mention they're impossible to self-maintain'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or that they will degrade quicker'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that manufacturers are deliberately building in obselecense, and bringing in enforced rental schemes'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'so the solution is to bag them? or work on solving those short comings?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Cars were long ago going down that road anyways.  If we didn't have EV come along, our newest generations of gassers would be much the same.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're a waste of time and money, they're a boondoggle for the rich and trendy'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'screw them, Jymes, if you want a non-fossil fuel alternative to diesel/petrol, go liquid hydrogen - the tech has been around decades, they use almost the same engines as regular cars, drive the same'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unless a power source is formed that isn't polluting, yes Jymes.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the benefits of a regular car, none of the downsides of electric'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you'll find is that various oil/electric companies have bought up the patents to hydrogen cars and have shelved them'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not much pollution either, as water. It might aggravate the greenhouse effect though.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and blow up much better, I bet.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not that I'd ever say no to someone giving me a tesla, but I don't foresee owning an EV in the next 10-20 years'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hydrogen cars are at no bigger risk than petrol or electric'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'depends on what risks we're discussing.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'overall risk of injury'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'explosion are unlikely, it's gonna be stored pure, so the purity will pretty much ensure it doesn't go up in a dust explosion.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pressurised hydrogen tanks are absurdly strong for a reason'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though deliberate sabotage will be spectacular.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and unlikely'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and not much different to sabotage on any other car'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they probably still wouldn't stand up to excessive force in an accident.  Wouldn't that then result in the basic burning-water experiment?  One good spark in the midst of a sudden cloud of hydrogen...'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'dust explosions only occur at a certain purity.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'certain ratios actually.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it would be rather unlikely. The pressure tanks themselves would be hard to damage as well, leading to quite a crash being needed.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'I think maybe one thing to be considered is output though.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'The greenhouse effect is also aggravated by water vapour.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you intend to do, turn off the sun?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so I suppose if hydrogen cars produced water vapour rather than liquid water, revisions would need to be made.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'revisions in what?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hydrocarbon reactions product water'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'cooling the water vapour into a liquid.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gas cars emit water vapor...'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so does evaporation and respiration'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not at the same rate.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and water vapor being emitted just becomes clouds in the usual rain cycle'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'gas cars and petroleum don't burn pure hydrogen.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't need to'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'exactly.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'neither do fuel cell cars ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'water is still a byproduct'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'not at the same amount, reactants are not the same.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the options between the results of burning hydrogen or burning diesel/petrol it's a nobrainer - petrol/diesel produces pollutants, hydrogen does not'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'same amount of air, same amount of oxygen, reacting with separate things, producing separate end products, since water vapour traps more heat, the larger amount of water vapour may well exacerbate the greenhouse effect more profoundly.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the meantime i'm perfectly happy with a diesel car, particulate filters are improving all the time'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'compared to the water moved through the atmosphere as a result of life, the car element is not significant'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'secondly, "so what"'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'elaborate please.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a world where nobody can keep their pants on long enough to prevent the population continually rising, there are becoming water shortages everywhere, the more rain we have the better'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it may not cause more rain. Other factors also come into play.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's a typically vague and pointless soundbite. Doing this may or may not cause something to happen, which will be bad because any beneficial effect may or may not happen because we don't want to obliterate our own agenda by pointing out the obvious flaws in it'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'particles needed for adhesion, ambient temperatures at the height where precipitation takes place, wind, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'simply saying that the hydrogen car may require revisions IF it produces water vapour rather than liquid water.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more rain isn't necessarily a good thing, too much in one area in too short a span leads to flooding, which can strip soils of their nutrients and ultimately just "pass through" on their way to the next part of the hydro cycle.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The bottom line is this. If you buy an electronic car in the belief that you're helping the environment - you're not, you've been deluded. End of story'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that's actually agreed on by myself.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the obvious post-fossil fuel alternative to petrol is hydrogen'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why wouldn't thorium work?'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thorium isn't combustible or liquid'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't work in an internal combustion engine'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'because putting that as a fuel source in a car is just asking for trouble.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hydrogen is an obvious choice, but without proper planning, it could lead to the world getting worse. Like everything else.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what planning does it need? it's a tried and tested technology. The fuel can be generated in bulk centrally, or in distributed micromanagement (even off grid)'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(which is something else they don't like about it)'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it works, yes. What I'm saying is that consideration may be required for end products for one, example as I stated above.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've been done, there were even roadgoing prototypes'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'That's kinda it. Norhing really out of the ordinary. Simply don't rush it.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are thousands of hydrogen cars on the road today, btw'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'As I said, it works, but was there any research onto the end product, or was it simply claimed that because it was water it was harmless.'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only downside was the lack of refueling infrastructure'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yes, water was the only byproduct'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'conceivably you could get some other rare byproducts from solvents, lubricants and so on, but you'd get that in any system'
T3/r7/2014-08-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i think the self-refueling was the thing that killed off hydrogen cars, once energy companies realised with hydrogens that people with a little land and $10k spare could buy their own fuel plant and never buy fuel from them again, they killed it'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, they've done a British version of Judge Judy with a posh homosexual judge called Judge Rinder. It couldn't be any more British and any more homosexual if they tried, but it's curiously amusing in a taking-the-piss-out-of-stupid-people way'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'burger king and tim hortons to merge, burger king to move tax base to Canada'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just another example of how globalisation is a race to the bottom'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are mortgages so cheap in the USA? I don't get it, the central banking rate is the same'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'history of government involvement going at least back to FDR, hence the tradition of quite low long-term fixed rates'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't they supposedly similar regulatory regimes now, though?'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the US had anything like a free market for mortgages, no sane (and few insane) banks would offer those rates :)'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you would, just you'd require a higher LTV rate'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was a ridiculous blog by an "expert" in the dreadfully leftist paper "The Guardian" in the UK where the writer slams a government minister for housing who was calling for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage. The writer claims the last time it was pushed people jumped in at 6.39% when the base rate was 5.5% and they got burnt. The writer doesn't seem to have noticed that the base rate this time around is 0.5% and can't go significantly lower'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'NIRP FTW'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'negative interest rates is basically the government trying to make saving money illegal'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'negative nominal rates is just like negative real rates after tax, except with nirp many ignorant/stupid people get it too :)'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such things should be illegal for governments to do'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'imo, govt shouldn't be in the business of manipulating the quantity and price of money, but my preference is for a quite different system'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well my preference would be a return to the gold standard, but hey, that's just me'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'while that is true, if the government isn't regulating it, someone else will be manipulating it'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'govt has way too much power as it is, so preferably something a gold standard, yes'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold standard and making it a legal requirement to balance the budget over a 5 year term'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm all for government regulating money, like.. 1 USD = 1/xth of an ounce of gold, purity y, and .. no fractional lending and so on :)'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'fractional lending should be illegal'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that wouldn't work unless you b anned the trade in financial instruments'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure I can achieve most of the effect by regulating banking (think glass-steagall with some extra bits), you bank, you do nothing else.'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also a tiny tax on financial transactions, like 0.01% :)'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't work'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it does if I make it sufficiently annoying for most people to trade most instruments, and disallow financial intermediaries etc. from trading in non-public instruments'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the main target would be the HFT gang, but you can have a small fee per quote instead'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you instigate any kind of transaction tax, all of your businesses that make money from large numbers of transactions will immediately up sticks and move to somewhere where there isn't a FTT'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that is true'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalisation, again, biting you in the arse'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'none of those other things will happen before I conquer the world though, so that sort of evens out..'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SirCanada nods at Tinada and says, "I concur." Why didn't you?!
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's a shame, struggling to find a decent mortgage, 25yrs require 25% deposit and are few and far between (and at 5.79%)'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, the entire French cabinet resigns'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'resigning is a bit better than being collaberators i guess'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '--h 4'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I agree!'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh, wish they chattering liberati would shut up about bitcoin already'
T3/r7/2014-08-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so here's a question for you: What would necessitate an agreement between Ukraine, Belgium, Netherland and Australia to only release findings of the MH17 airliner over Ukraine if there was unanimous agreement between those parties to do so?'
T3/r7/2014-08-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hmm, no riots yet for poor Dillon Taylor.'
T3/r7/2014-08-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'arkansas democrat says voting for the other guy will cause you to get ebola'
T3/r7/2014-08-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'seems legit'
T3/r7/2014-08-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'at least its not ISIS coming through the mexcian boarder'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ISIS -is- infiltrating through the Mexican border. Hezbollah and other groups have been talking to the Mexican cartels for some time'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in large numbers, clearly'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'meh'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the problem with an unsecured border - you don't get to choose who comes in'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'its not like we have anything to worry about'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when you let huge numbers of foreign cultures come in, even legally, you get major issues such as ISIS, and the rape/sexual assault of 1400 girls under the age of 16 by Pakistani immigrants going unproesecuted'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as the UK is finding'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'you mean when dirty brown people enter your country? LOL '
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'or is that not what you mean?'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wasn't going to put it like that, but it's a culture clash - it's what Enoch Powell warned about decades ago, but you're not allowed to take any notice of him, because it's racist'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, that was the official reason given for why 1400 rapes/sexual assaults went unpunished - the police and local government were too scared to do anything about it incase they were branded racist'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as they say: you couldn't make it up'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come on, if you're American, you know what a nasty affect a sudden explosion in the number of Mexicans in one area can make'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'thats a copout. they didnt do anything (if this did happen) is because it would require them to do their jobs '
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like justification to get rid of them all'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'oh lawdy THEY TOOK OUR JERBS '
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's obvious'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'america has bigger problems than poor mexican immigrants right now'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'cant blame brown folks for all your problems '
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wilding: 'goodnight!'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yes, your rogue government is an issue'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'immigration is damage done already to US and to the UK, still need to close the border, but it's a bit like locking the door after the horse has bolted'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'nine-year-old girl accidentaaly kills shooting instructor on firing range'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Loony Lachdanan: 'Thanks, Obama!'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kreuzen: 'should i stay up for one more quest, or go to sleep and wake up early to quest?'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'never sleep and quest 24/7'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'until you get accused of being a bot'
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SirCanada's eyes moisten as he thinks of the real world.
T3/r7/2014-08-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that shooting instructor won't do anything quite so stupid again in the future'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'what does the term 'feminist' mean to you?'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't think it means one thing for me anymore'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'when you hear 'feminist', do you think of those reasonable people who fight for gender equality, or those crazy arseholes who believe men are total jerks and should be oppressed?'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) THE T12 VintEdge: 'those crazy arseholes'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'both, since it can mean either. think of it as context'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'maybe the crazy ones should be called feminazis.'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'havent met nor seen/heard of a femenist that isn't also a feminazi, and isn't also a bit stupid'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I resent thut Tiggy :P'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you resemble that?'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'great to see you still about Tiggy ! keep up the great work !'
T3/r7/2014-08-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not a feminist'
T3/r7/2014-08-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ukraine requests path to NATO membership. because clearly that (being in breach of agreements signed post Warsaw pact) will de-escalate tensions'
T3/r7/2014-08-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they found out how the rocks move in Death Valley. each such success makes our world a bit more boring.'
T3/r7/2014-08-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the more we know .. the more we know we don't .. ? '
T3/r7/2014-08-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I thought they figured it out like 2 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-08-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Something about melting ice or something?'
T3/r7/2014-08-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yep. but the've seen it now'
T3/r7/2014-08-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'last december'
T3/r7/2014-08-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rocks sail in death valley due to global warming caused by people living in oversized houses, voting the wrong way, and not paying enough tax'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spot the deliberate (? or case of a wilfully ignorant AP reporter) in this news story: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0901/Driving-stoned-States-prep-for-marijuana-DUI'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the headline ought to be "Transport Agency Ignores Evidence, Pushed For Discrimanatory Regulations On Pot Users" '
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'they're always adding more rules  :('
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'yet a 9 year old can shoot a uzi'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'Muricah!'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/26/charles-vacca-shooting-instructor-dies-9-year-old_n_5717603.html'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'i feel sorry for the child, heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'I feel sorry for the parents, that they think teaching a 9 year old to shoot guns is important'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'that girl should have been playing with dolls. '
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'i still can't be trusted w/ those kind of decisions, yeah'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'o come on what kind of no brainer is that "should I buy my 9 year old a new doll ? or a uzi ?" '
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'misfired over her head they're saying'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't misfire'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a braindead instructor is all'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'it's not misfired, a skinny 9 year hold simply can't hold the recoil on fully automatic'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'so she tumbles back, and tada, dead instructor who was behind her'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: ''recoil.'  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HF6-UcaMSPU'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '9yr old is a bit late to be teaching kids firearms, as it goes, should be taught from a very early age'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'you have to be kidding...'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'my god, what ever happened to letting a child be innocent and stuff like that'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'i've known outdoorsmen types that started pretty young'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err no, if you're in a gun loving culture, you own firearms, then you should teach your kids from a young age to be respectful of them'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'nope, lets teach it how to actually take life --''
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'she looks like a tiny little girl to me who couldn't handle the thing'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well exactly, indignation, you don't put an uzi in the hands of a green 9yr old'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'why would anyone want a culture where you love things which primairy function is to kill --''
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'the instuctor was in the army reserves. seems like everyone involved should of known better'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, indignation'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'I always thought it was about being able to defend your civil rights. '
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'but apperantly, it's just a obession with death ? '
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hitler youth is that way, Democrat'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'yes and we called them brainwashed for a reason --''
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, you and the other members?'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Teaching a kid to use guns (respectfully and safely) is not an obsession with death. :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the 9yr old uzi death is a prime example of Darwin's theory in action'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I doubt there is any disastrous loss from waiting some years with guns.'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'I was taught to be careful with guns. Now, was I given that kind of gun? Hell no. Nothing wrong with teaching, but common sense should be used.'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'apperantly common sense isn't that common anymore'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Syntax error..common sense does not compute.'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'common sense is a rare commodity these days, Fiain, especially when everyone is intent on installing governments that remove people's need for it'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'True. Sad, but true.'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'guns aren't my thing personally but i generally respect other's ppl right to own them. til they do something like that  :X'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'apperantly common sense isn't that common anymore'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'whoops mis spam'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as a government that imprisons 2 parents for daring to take their terminally ill child abroad for a treatment the single payer government health care system won't provide due to cost'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or a european superstate (which isn't a government) banning the sale of vacuum cleaners, hair dryers, and a electric mowers on the grounds that they use too much electric'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'ha'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Where though, does common sense fit into our carefully crafted "education" system, designed to ensure that 98% of the population don't think, and the last 2% only think inside narrowly defined boxes?'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'Ohhh they crossed the line a while already go while imposing that EU constitution while i'm pretty sure we voted "nope"'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'you're just all stuck w/ wet heads from now on'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that uzi could come in handy, we have a lot of politicians to retire'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'For the harm they caused, bullets are to quick, let them suffer >D'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'they prefer we use the questionable voting system   :x'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the only British politician who stood up to the system got his face kicked in by a toff this week'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toff'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'our slang's a lot different  :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Democrat: 'anyho movie time, debate this mean while, is "The Avangers" a good movie :P '
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'you tell us when you get back  :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your slang is wrong ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'oh quite possibly  :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the plus side, the nazi's are getting pushed back in Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the UK news is all about NATO countries needing to spend more on defence. Trouble is, they're all skint and won't do it'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'comparisons are abound between now and 1930s'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Britain had an empire in 1930s'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yeah, they should spend more on defence, especially since their coffers are overflowing with cash. I think Greece should lead the spending.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yeah, they should spend more on defence, especially since their coffers are overflowing with cash. I think Greece should lead the spending.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, aphelion, most NATO members already in breech of their terms of membership'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sorry'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'The only thing NATO can do now is be an aggressor, which of course, they are planning to be.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only trouble with their comparisons with Nazi Germany in 1930s is they haven't realised that NATO are playing the part of Nazi's'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'NATO do nothing now'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it is US-run UN'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're looking at moving lots of troops and armour to Russia's border'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in an entirely non-threatening manner, you understand'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'true, Vost, but US is itching to go to war with Russia (as their application in Afghanistan shows), NATO provides a nice disguise.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'former superpowers always choose war when their establishment is on the rocks at home'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers intently at Vost.
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't see a way out of it unless someone convinces Ukraine to back down and have a political solution'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i really don't'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'which won't happened as they are internally egged on by the West.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'via covert operations.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the west is doing their utmost to escalate things right now'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yes, of course. That has been one of the targets all along. Russia and China. That is the reason for the ME campaigns, to establish a tactical platform to attack either country.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China is being belligerent, too'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'China can afford to be :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were NATO i'd have spent the last 20 years doing everything I could to bring Russia into the fold'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'where is the euro (or the usd) in doing that? One must respect bottom lines :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'erm, not being wiped out by China after handing them the world's entire manufacturing base is where the interest is in that'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'name a military organization in the history of the world that wanted peace :) '
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all well and good, but this is the nuclear age'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Jesus Army'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'goo joke, Vost :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost chuckles politely.
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'newsflash, Jesus is dead, government has superceded religion as the cult of choice'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the history of religion reads like the history of militarism.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they usually go hand in hand.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you'll have to concede government has supplanted religion as the 'head cult''
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people don't get that, and i don't know if it's because they genuinely don't know what religion for, or if it's just they don't know what government is for'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'don't need to. I am aware the soldiers can were more than one uniform :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'US soldiers, for instance, sometimes were NATO or UN uniforms.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NATO and UN shouldn't be allowed uniforms/armies'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so a soldier can be both part of a religion or a government.'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'an anyway, secularism is a  "religion" :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'controlling people'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by force'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, my stupid government have revoked the european arrest warrant they took out against two parents of a terminally ill 5 year old they took out of the country for treatment'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though you can be guaranteed that nobody will lose their job over it, though they should'
T3/r7/2014-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'add citizenship-discrimination to the arsenal of the politically-correct.'
T3/r7/2014-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those poor parents they arrested for rescuing their son from a British hospital for treatment have been released for prison, but they still haven't had custody of their son returned to them. WHat's worse is that the news readers on TV are implying that somehow having the state "steal" custody of your child and then not give it back until some sort of hoop-jumping has taken place is a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, the French government has stolen 2 Russian warships'
T3/r7/2014-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '9year olds don't need to learn about guns  by using fully automatic weapons'
T3/r7/2014-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I'm pro guns and all but that should just be common sense, and a law stating so could be warranted'
T3/r7/2014-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't require a law, just requires common sense'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'did work made us human or donkeys?'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'free. allegedly  :('
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'work teaches us to avoid it'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so, work tries to teach us to be free. you're a damn yoda, Indi'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'i wish. i decend from nazis  :x'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hmff.. all races and nations suck.'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'im uber-nazi then eh?'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'only if you can trick them into working for you anyway'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so. Indi. build me a supercar! ex-nazis are good at it i heard:p'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'find me another car besides the mercedes you can wrap around a tree at 80 & live :x'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'they are. i agree!'
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i wonder who was the genius who designs ski-helmets. i mean - Schumacher was fine all his career.. then this. its so stupid:('
T3/r7/2014-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they crashed an old biiiig volvo and a little new french car in top gear. the volvo dummy died but the other broke a nail. it was amazing to watch'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'another weekend and the war hasn't started yet'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'It's like they're really not motivated to start'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're motivated alright, they just don't think the rest of us are'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Lord Rovin: 'Who's they?'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people who make significant amounts of money and/or gain influence power from unrest'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so large swathes of politicians and certain corporate backers'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern wars are rubbish anyway, don't kill nearly enough stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should take them back for a refund for not being fit for purpose'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wars aren't meant to kill, that's a byproduct, it's main intention is to subjugate.'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, they already subjogate so you might get away with it'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe it will be expressed as a series of civil wars, toppled governments and civil unrest'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as people over time get paid increasingly less for jobs with increasingly shittier conditions that buy less each month, in a society where restrictions and laws only increase'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully it'll pop at some point'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'I would rather the problem resolved without bloodshed.'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'though that may not be possible.'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it might also be more damaging than war itself.'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problems society faced cannot be solved without bloodshed'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for a start there are too many people, and too many of those too many people are stupid and/or control freaks and/or greedy and/or lazy and/or <insert other gripes here>'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'we certainly won't solve our problems through discussions either... for all of those same reasons'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, then bloodshed is definitely necessary'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'were the Americans here present aware that the southern border is secure? Obama was on TV saying so'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Yes" to scotland indepence crosses 50% support for the first time today. Best bit of news i've heard in ages'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'are you a scotsman?'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, though it does affect me'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Scotland is like an oversized leech sucking money out of England, and also acts as a big socialist weight dragging the rest of the UK down'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with them gone, left wing governments will be considerably rarer'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which at least limits the damage government can do'
T3/r7/2014-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to put it in perspective, only one seat of all the the parliamentary seats in Scotland is held by a non-left wing politician'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Prince William and bint are expecing another child. FFS, do we have to go through another 9 months of this bullshit?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone else notice a recent push by the 'elite' socialist brigade (that's rich socialists that want to tax everyone except themselves) for 'wealth' taxes?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, even better: Kentucky man arrested, spent 8 days in jail for posting song lyrics to Facebook'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Hello?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Khulal looks around.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'let's try it again, this time with more conviction.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Goodbye.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Do I win the debate?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'can I rant reallly quick to you guys?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'quickly*'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'CUT!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'makeup! where's my spittle?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Okay..So the USA signed the treaty of Nueturality during the WWII, right?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Right?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'the what?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'never heard of it'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, I dunno.  Are you sure you have the right WW?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'talking about the paris peace treaties?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'Wasn't there a Soviet-Japan treaty signed in wwii?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'what year was this alleged treaty signed?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'I don't remember.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'However'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'definitely wasn't anything about neutrality in there'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'ok we've established that the usa may or may not have signed some treaty of neutrality which may have been called something else'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is it on this list? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:World_War_II_treaties'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'my debate channel has the same color as my gossip'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Let me getmy facts realy quickly...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'If you just want to rant, don't bother with facts.  Just go for the usual method of making shit up.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they sed they'd be neutral, but here they are starting shit!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'like that :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Reflective Argent nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Okay..'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ok?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: '..well, USA was nuetrual. I think it was because of a treaty or maybe the foreign policy, BUT'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'wait!  usa was neutral in ww2?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there were some congretional acts passed for neutrality before ww2'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but when your naval base is attacked, that usually preempts neutrality'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'WAIT!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we had more of a neutral stance in WW1, I think'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'THATS MY POINT'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'actually, usa WAS neutral at the beginning of ww2 to some extent, i guess'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'USA are liers.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'US was nonparticipatory'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'in regards to what? joining WW2?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'until attacked...neutral doesn't mean you'll let other people attack you...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'This is probably what he's talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_Acts_of_1930s'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'just listen...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Please..'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'wait, you needed all that to conclude that USA are made of humans and therefore liars?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'that was about foreign conflicts'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'just like peace treaties don't mean that if you're attacked, you must still be peaceful'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'it's not foreign when there's an attack on american soil'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Exactly so listen'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Can I finish'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but, in general, political maneuverings aren't actually binding on non-political machinations.  The most famous example is probably the Geneva Accord.  The US is hardly the only one, but we basically put on a public face in support of the treaty and privately never started really adhering to it.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you have finished...you've declared a conclusion without presenting'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'do you mean that you have started?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'gentlemen..'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Now, as then, economic actions can provide more devastating effects than so called acts of war. The USA and other 'non-participants' were actively engaging in hostile economic actions.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'I am not finished with debate'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you said "that's my point", and "USA are liars"...those are finishing points'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'you haven't started debate yet'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'CAN I FINISH WITHOUT BEING INTERRUPTED?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, you may not'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'LMAO'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but it'd help if you had a single true or cogent thought first :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only way to do that in this type of format is via wall-of-text'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'No.  This is debate.  But you can start presenting your facts and conclusions'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'basically, the only thing those acts said was that the US wouldn't supply countries at war with guns'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh noes, someone else sed something, I gotta start over'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'MADCATZ'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Or fuel or food'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the US was fine selling lots of stuff to both sides, just not munitions'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'We don't even know for sure thats what he is referring to, Madcatz.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'EXACTLY'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'so let me finish plese'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and gunships in exchange for land rights.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'exactly what?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hell, we sold the rights of tons of hollywood movies to hitler'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'You know, this isn't a face-to-face conversation.  It's not like if you talk when we're talking, we won't be able to hear you'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody has stopped you from finishing except you'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you cannot finish "uninterrupted", but you can certainly finish'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'because im reading everthing you are saying'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so are we'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and yet, here we are'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'Could you start? I am sooo confused as to what you are even talking about...so far I get the was some treaty somewhere somewhen about neutrality...that shows the US are liars...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'THATS HIS POINT!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Those acts were also repealed (through the legislative process that repeals acts like these) before we declared war.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'really?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Can you guys just let me present'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody has stopped you from presenting'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'Go ahead.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we're all waiting with bated breath'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Thank You'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'please continue, oh wise and unenlightened one'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'baited...did a fish fry tonight.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Usa is nuetural'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but it helps to actually have a valid point to start with'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'or at least to say stuff that's true'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rather than jumping to the conclusions first'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'stop cutting me off'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'nvm...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '"screw you guys, I'm going home"'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you wanna debate on teh intarwebs, lrn2talk'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Madcatz watched way too much south park last night.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'be better off talking about native american treaties that were broken for settlement or resources.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exactly.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'So your first point is - Usa is nuetural'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'got lots of good reasons to call USA liars there'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'USA is neutered.  OK.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but they sed they were neutral and then ww2 won't work well'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'no.. im not debating no more.. you guys keep talking without leting me finish'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's right, welcome to the Internet'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'should i just write a f---ing paragraph?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Can't see as you've actually started'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and politics'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'indeed. it's text'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'no one is tying your hands to your side'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Honestly, Abelinc hands Khulal a soap box.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'Just start presenting your assumptions and arguments.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'you're the one that's choosing not to finish'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'write what you wanna say & don't read theirs til after, if it makes you feel better'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I KEEL YOU!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wall-of-text is the only way to say your complete piece without someone jumping in with a counterpoint or something trollish.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Sorry.. I just get upset when I don't get my point across. Can I start over?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then get your point across'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'DO OVER GUYS'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'btw, don't consider it "not getting my point across" if we simple don't agree that you have a valid point :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'ready, set, debate again'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"we understand perfectly what you think you're saying, but you're simply wrong" is still getting your point across ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'step 1: actually find out what particular neutrality agreement you're talking about...step 2: determine what steps the US took that you think broke said agreement'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'step 3: ???...step 4: don't forget about what happened between step 1 and step 2'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'step 5: profit'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You rapidly nod twice at Reflective Argent, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hmm, what happened to "don't bother with facts and just make shit up"?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Arnica meeps! Maybe you should too!
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'Awww..  is this over?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or perhaps he's still writing'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Honestly, Abelinc hopes it's dexx-worthy
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'USA are liars...my daddy told me so!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'debate that, losers!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flagstone: 'sounds legit'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'MY daddy told me the USA only tells the truth!!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jymes snickers softly.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well my daddy beats up your daddy for a living'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'see that 2 exclamation marks...must be more truthful'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'My daddy is the USA.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: '2 exclamations but no '1'....'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'chuck norris is my daddy, so there!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You've had quite enough of this nonsense! Mustering the wittiest reply you can think of, you shout, "NO U!11 Madcatz!!"
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'chuck norris is chuck norris's daddy'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'well mine is bruce lee, you saw him beat down chuck'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'We're not sure if Bruce Lee beat Chuck.  Instant Replay wasn't invented at that time.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Okay: The Usa is nuetural during the rise of Hitler. Hitler is a communist. He as tooken over Germany, parts of Russia, and is on his way to control France. As the US is Nuetural by not supplying Foriegn contries with food and supplies, and by having a Foriegn Policy. However, Usa began to lie and supply these countries, that are about to raided by the Nazis, with Soldiers, Food, Fuel, Weapons, so on and so forth, breaking the NUETURALITY ACT (I remember now) and their FORIEGN POLICY. Ironically Japan are allies with the Nazis. Some how, somewhere, they caught on to what the USA was doing and Bombed Pearl Harbor which caused us to retaliate and drop Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nakasaki wiping out there entire cities. They never attacked us again. We are to powerful. HOWEVER, I believe if we allowed the Nazis to continue with there Terroristic Ways most of Europe and China would be controlled by the Nazis. HOWEVER, USA could have easily destoryed the Nazis if this happened because of the Manhattan Proj'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flagstone: 'my eyes!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Treachery: 'I hate you so much.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Reflective Argent shows his contempt for Khulal, saying 'Yay' sarcastically.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Khulal!!!  Reflective Argent cheers him on.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'tl;dr'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'ect (Atomic Bombs). The Nazi did not have any Navel Bases or Arial Bases to come to USA. They are foot soldiers. They also didn't have any Nueclear Weapons. The USA could be controlling the world right now if we would have played it smart and not gave a fuck about humanity and peace. But Being the little Bitches We Are We Failed to realize this outcome. That's why the Cold War happened. Russia, which had some of it's territory controlled by Nazis took the time to develope Atomic Bombs which is why there was the Arms Race. The race to show off the amount of neuclear bombs they had comared to the USA.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hitler wasn't communist...the USA didn't supply countries with soldiers, fuel, food, weapons, so on...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'Thank you'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and the Soviets stole our atomic weapon schema.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Khulal bows while the crowd throws flowers at his soapbox.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'Wait!  What part of that is your conclusion?'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'I want a navel base'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jymes falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'yes they did.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the USA couldn't have destroyed the nazis because of the manhattan project at that time, as the manhattan project hadn't existed yet, and the nazis had their own manhattan project, stating that they didn't have nuclear weapons is missing a very important "yet"...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'yes it did'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the US had no interest in controlling the world, they just wanted to be left the fuck alone'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jymes seems to think you have the right idea.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'whole reason for these neutrality acts'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'probably a bit oversimplified, Abe'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Well, with uninterrupted supply lines, of course'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'nazis are communists'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'I like this part: Bombed Pearl Harbor which caused us to retaliate and drop Atomic Bombs on Hiroshima and Nakasaki wiping out there entire cities.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, they aren't'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'definately not true'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Not like there was over 3 1/2 years between there'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Khulal: 'hitler was a communist'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the US didn't want to be left the fuck alone, they just didn't want to get into a fight they weren't ready for.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Nazis are communists like protons are electrons, dude'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'someone's been watching Drunk History'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'fascist. but much sharper dressed'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion . o O ( they may not have wanted to control the world then but it seems they've changed their minds about that now... )
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'That show was suprisingly better that I expected it to be'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flagstone: 'Cause you were drunk too Mad'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'communists = supposed equality...hilter was anti-communist. Ask the russians in his concentration camps'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod aphelion, much different political atmosphere then and now...AFTER WWII ended, they were thrust further into world superpower status, and y'know how power corrupts and all that'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'I am waiting fro Drunk Physics'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'this very night I buried someone who lived through a couple of his concentration camps...'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dude, what'd he do to you?!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Sorry to hear that Abelinc'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bobolai slaps the soul of Hans.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jymes comforts you. 
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bobolai slaps Hanslanda.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk at his saying.
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reflective Argent: 'Hanslada, that was insensitive and pretty damn funny!'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Khulal looks around
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'A trip to one of the camps is a worthwhile experience. The lie behind "Arbeit Macht Frei" will rock you, speaking of lying bastards.'
T3/r7/2014-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Following up, three excellent articles explaining the mutually stupid roles that Japan and the USA played which led to their disastrous and uneccessary confrontration in WWII http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/summary.cfm?q=905, http://www.japanfocus.org/-Richard_J_-Smethurst/3825, http://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/O/r/Origins_of_the_Pacific_War.html.'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Apple's "mark of the beast" payment system has arrived'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a future of google glass and apple smartwatches, the only gadget I want is a handheld EMP device'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'embedded id tags inside the human body may be the future :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, only for the trendies'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm about ready to tell companies to go fuck themselves if they start being pushy over contactless payment'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then again, i thoroughly enjoy telling people to go fuck themselves in anycase'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://edition.cnn.com/2014/09/08/tech/mobile/cyborg-unplug-google-glass/'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'awesome, i want one'
T3/r7/2014-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, the UN is warning that CO2 levels are increasing at their fastest rate since 1984, and that we're running out of time to avoid global warming DISASTER! We won't mention that the current level of 394ppm is still some distance below optimum crop growing levels of 700-1000ppm, and well below the 20,000ppm that were present in the atmosphere in pre-historic times'
T3/r7/2014-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who wants to buy a gay iWatch?'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nuclear war still hasn't started :-('
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'So impatient!'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'need it now! too many people making living costs too high!'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get on with it! or weaponise ebola, or SOMEthing'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'a million dollar idea- collect all the oxygen and start selling it'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spose we could just flick the nuts of Russia by expanding NATO up to the borders of their country in violation of the treaties we signed in the 80s, that might start a nuclear war, i guess'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or maybe bomb their vassals like Syria '
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'russia is shaky now. getting pussier.'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damned pussies'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't rely on anyone to be the good guys these days'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the thing is that nobody really cares anymore what they say. official or not. they've been bsing too much'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so we're screwed, then?'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'The nuclear war was effectively won in the 1980s by demonstrating that the US could and would outproduce and deploy multiple independently targeted warheads from ground, sea and air based vehicles with more precision and more rapidly than any opponent until any opponent was bankrupt and the idea became so stupid to everyone that it was abandoned'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nah. any serious action and they are flushed completely'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Duh!'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not what i meant, i meant that we as a people are screwed because there is no good guy to stick up for us'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china isn't exactly going to come to our aid'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'not going to help Russia much either'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'back to the original hope for nuclear war, then :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope all the bad guys nuke each other'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i blame Stalin'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i blame everyone'
T3/r7/2014-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'including you'
T3/r7/2014-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mercutio: 'wow, there is a debate channel who knew...  '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lies'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rather slow news day'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'that's always a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll never reduce world population at this rate'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh joy, Obama's threatened to break International law now'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's already broken international law.  Every single US president in at least the 20th century has.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, well now he's whinging that Assad might fire at US planes if they invade Syrian airspace like it's some great big surprise'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even the "heroes" like FDR, Reagan, or Clinton.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone should carefully show him the door'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just push him down a small flight of stairs and rob him of his millions from his post-presidential speaking tours.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't condone that, though i wouldn't be sad if it happened'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i want Obama to bomb Syria and I want for Syrian air defences to shoot some of the fuckers down'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'll learn 'em'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'nothing like wishing for the deaths of people who have no voice in what they are doing...'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'pretty fucked up imo'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey said "you're not using our airspace or facilities to launch air strikes on Syria" to the US, and good on them'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'politicians are shit -> i hope troops die... gtfo imo'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the troops should do what they did last year, Scars, and start a campaign telling those in charge that they won't do it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'I didnt know we could use curse language in debate channel hehe'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'remember the "i won't be al-qaida's airforce" twitter campaign?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'last paragraph in help debate'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're not really supposed to, since it's caustic to the intent of the channel...but we can.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'aah, makes sense :p'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'troops participating in such a movement would be largely symbolic, but okay'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'knock youself out, Morzoth'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the appropriate thing to do would have been to talk to Syria, or more likely, get Russia to intercede with Assad on behalf of the west'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which they would have done perhaps if it weren't for the USA shoving a big EU-shaped cock up Putin's arse over Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i know my impressino of the actions of ISIL is that they want to talk, i mean, they keep asking for talks'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'seriously, you think having a country we're currently somewhat at odds with to speak on our behalf would be good for us?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'and by "asking for talks" i mean "killing everyone who is not their version of muslim"'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't need to talk to ISIL, you need to talk to Assad'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'because that helps solve the ISIL problem... how?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ISIL isn't a problem, IS is'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'ISIL=IS, you know this, right?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, but IS!=ISIL'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ISIS = Islamic State in Syria, ISIL in Libya'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'On 29 June 2014, the establishment of a new caliphate was announced, and the group formally changed its name to the "Islamic State" (IS).'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant#Name_and_name_changes'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'ISIL is not libya...'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all al-qaida-based groups funded by Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Turkey, and trained/armed by the same + Turkey, Jordan and the USA'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'you don't even know what group you're talking about here'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the same people'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'in the name ISIL, L does not stand for libya, it stands for levant'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'which is a geographic part of the world'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's Monty Python's People's Front of Judea sketch all over again'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should probably tell John Kerry that'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think he still thinks you're fighting Viet Nam'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'IS is a mideastern KKK.  The KKK isn't just one giant group, it's a consortium of much smaller groups who overall have the same longterm goal but also have their quibbling differences with each other.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'perhaps he does - and, sadly, it might even contribute to some of my friends still in the marine corps going to fight another war thats not theirs'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well then, how about we don't fight there'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to do with us, other than having been fostered by our own governments'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'where would you have them fight, Tiger?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'us? nowhere'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'he'd dismantle the military'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let saudi arabia sort it out, it's their mess'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'In late August 2014, a leading Islamic authority Dar al-Ifta al-Misriyyah in Egypt advised Muslims to stop calling the group "Islamic State" and instead refer to it as "Al-Qaeda Separatists in Iraq and Syria" or "QSIS", because of the militant group's un-Islamic character.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'probably the most accurate term, really'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, pro-unemployment...'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'egypt is starting to look like a kickass team player'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ISIS would never have got a foothold in Syria if the west hadn't stuck their nose into the governance of other countries'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would never have got a foothold in Libya if the west hadn't supported them'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it would never have gotten a foothold in Iraq if they hadn't invaded on a false and illegal pretext'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spot the pattern....'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'tell me more about how the west has caused all of the problems in the middle east'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'and please, in detail, show me how the atrocities being commited their are not the fault of the groups doing it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not a pattern without a third point of reference, and even then that's barest minimum to even be considered.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the situation now is fundamentally a sum of the event that led up to it, in just the same way that brutal financial penalties levied against what became Germany after WW1 ultimately led to the rise of fascism there'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'look, i don't want the US fighting another war in the middle east any more than you do... i'd rather let the people that live their hash out their boarders, draw their own lines on the map, and stop going killing each other'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actions have consequences, we should have learned by now'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'contributed to the outcome, sure... caused it? nope'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the the best thing we can do now is force the people over in the middle east to sort it out themselves. Saudi Arabia is rich and has a large military, Qatar is fantastically rich'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey has a sizeable military'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'which means you're in favor of watching a humanitarian crisis occur'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'can't say i'm on board with that'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll get a humanitarian crisis regardless'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'this chann .. while I don't contribute to it  . is one of my fave parts of Aard  , thanks :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so send humanitarian aid'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'to which side?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would you be sending it to a side? I thought you agreed that it is civilians that suffer the humanitarian crisis?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'oh, i do agree... how did you plan on distributing such aid?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'going to pretend you can walk around with immunity?>'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'they got seeall flags imo'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in which case you'd best be giving it to people like Lebanon and Jordan who have been repeatedly complaining about how they are swamped with refugees and cannot cope'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'why not open ourselves up to accepting refugees?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can do what you please, but you'd want to get the permission of your countrymen for that'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and for refugees you'd be better off getting closer countries with similar climates and cultures to do so first off'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'damn I love the F outta deb chann :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): After Snowangel Tzadkiel's comment, Tigernuts yells "That's what she said!" Snowangel Tzadkiel is not amused.
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'oops .. mis'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'in a region of the world where boarders mean a big ol bag of shit, we're going to pretnd that by going to jordan and lebonon their safe?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'safer'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'as long as we agree that we're pretending'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you think instead that arming one rebel group against another will help more?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'false dichotomy, i never recommended such action'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the action our governments are pushing for, which is what i was complaining about'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'although, if my nation benefits from one side winning versus another, i'm not opposed to helping them win'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i find it doubtful that such a requirement has been truly met, though'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well excuse me if i'm not somewhat pissed off at my government spending billions of my tax money on stupid foreign policy that always makes things worse, rarely makes things better, the instability from which is then used as justification to breech MY rights'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were me, i'd glass parking lot the whole middle east, problem solved'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'you're excused - i also detest the one-way-street of security measures'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'yeah, because obviously they're all evil'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either glass parking lot or leave it alone'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'switch to nuclear, get off oil, and you may find you really don't care what happens to the region of the world heavily dependent upon a resource that you don't need'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'glass parking lot it, Tzad?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i already don't care'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'my bad, i wasn't clear... you may find that your government***'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'peacock?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'oops miss'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not that dependant on it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'of course they are'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'what gives you electricity?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russian gas'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lol, so much better'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our country isn't interested in energy self sufficiency, they'd rather have fucking expensive everything with which to permanently punish it's public with'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we could be self sufficient through hydro, tidal, wind, microgeneration and coal but they don't want it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what happens when you sign onto EU tyranny and listen to stupid environmentalists who don't understand the necessities of scientific rigour'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'racial olympics. fun, serious, nicht nicht?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'too many swimming/diving events'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mercutio: '... if a tree farts in the woods... does it make a sound?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a tree has the ability to respond to sonic vibrations and can detect chemical emanations from other plants and animals, so not only would it "hear" the fart it could smell it as well.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'and a tree can't cover his nose. so sad'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'trees are male ? '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not all plants respond to the same cues, however, and on top of that the cues might mean entirely different things to different plants.  That rotten-eggs smell that makes humans go "Oh, GROSS!  LIGHT A MATCH, DUDE! :(" might make an oak rise up looking for plant-pussy nearby.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '- interesting oldschool book "The secret life of plants" . '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a treant turns to your lily and goes, "Hey, baby, is that a stamen in your flower or are you just happy to see me?"'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'blink'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in keeping with the previous debate about trees, should all stupid people be gassed to death?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is crazy stupid ? '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, just everyone with an IQ under 130'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '137  I pass :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ultimately you have to annihilate them or find a way of preventing them from ruining the world you live in for the rest of us'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'think global act local ... interesting .. '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone getting Agenda 21 on our arses?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Zyclon C ? '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'airborne ebola'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'meth is doing a good job .. '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'all meth has done is made it a pain in the ass to get decongestants, ammonia, iodine etc'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't have any trouble getting htose here'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'you have to sign for decongestants'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, don't here'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you have to have your id recorded to buy drain-o (or any such like substance)'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you think you might be living in a nany state yet?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'iodine as reformulated'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'is'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where's here, ontuct, Sweden?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'the us'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same US where a schoolchild was required to produce a doctors note to use a chapstick?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I don't follow schoolchildren'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'intersting the increase in the nanny state where nicotine is legal .. '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what you told the cops'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'schools can't respond to an athsema attack unless the school has a doctor's note from that child's doctor outlining the proper procedures needed '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know you can still create the best decongestant... for now... in your own kitchen'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though they are working on ways to outlaw it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(that being: Steam)'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the dreaded Dihydrogen monoxide'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ban it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Just because the gov't eats half of gdp, most people rely on the state to provide for them, raise their children etc., and possess the same level of initiative and independent thinking habits as a dead gerbil, doesn't mean we live in a nanny state.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does in this case :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'One moment, closing windows, these black helicopters make a lot of noise.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it is acceptable, or even vaguely commonplace for kids to be banned from bringing a packed lunch into school, where you can't get decongestents without a prescription, where collecting rainwater is against the law, and where 6 cars full of armed Homeland Security agents will turn up to your door because a 25 year old 4x4 you imported might not pass emissions standards..... you live in a nanny state'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'just wondering .. we have so many anti harm mitigating factors  . yet nicorine is legal . '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax, tzad'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, I hear the vice president smokes'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any vice president smokes if you set fire to him'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although I believe Obama has been trying to quit for some time.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he should try a bit harder'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's throwing off his golf game'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'most western countries have made smoking more inconvenient, that must count for something'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't see it as being relevent, they provide support for giving up, they provide public health information to tell you it's really bad for you. They tax it up and beyond it's cost to others and society which they have no right to do'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'yet it is the only product on the market that , used as directed , will cause you harm .. '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not strictly true'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what about bacon?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Norway has just about the highest tobacco taxes in the world, and even that doesn't cover more than about 1/3 of estimated extra health care costs caused by smoking.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..and that is direct health care costs, lost productivity not included'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then Norway is paying over the odds for healthcare, or someone has done the maths wrong'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely the second option, as the anti-smoking nazis in the Uk try the same bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Well, our health care system costs over 1/2 of the US system, so it is clearly rediculously expensive.'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we had to sign an agreement to not smoke or allow any guests to not smoke on the property where we live'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you rent, razkin?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so where I live, people can't even smoke where they live'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then that's why :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i've never rented from a place that doesn't allow you to smoke in your own apartment, though'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'more addictive than heroin more toxic than cyanide  ..  '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, we moved here because it's pretty nice, and work is really close'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't complain about a rule when you chose to live there'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I don't smoke, either'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now if it was outlawed by law over the whole country, then you'd have reason to complain'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I've just never lived in a place that policed whether or not I was smoking'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'my mom got 'talked to' because she stopped by and was smoking in her car'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can understand landlords wanting non-smokers because of damage to decor'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'talked to by whom?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the property manager'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'you can't smoke in your car on property'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she should have told the property manager to jog on'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '.. ex heroin user ex smoker ..  .. smoking harder to kick .. '
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'again, it doesn't really affect us, because we don't smoke'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I find it weird'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'First they came for the smokers and I said nothing because I did not smoke....'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'they come for alcohol again.... and people will rebel'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people should rebel anyway'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '.. Oh not my Vodka !! no way !!'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make our own, parallel construction'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully Scotland will go independent on Thursday'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but knowing how drunk and feckless the Scots generally are, they'll turn it down'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'i've only kind of followed that whole thing, but I get the sense that the Scotts might regret breaking away'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd have to pull up the article again, like I said, I haven't followed it closely, just remember reading some arguments about it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'll see if I can find it'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all pretty rubbish arguments for not having independence'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnicholson/2014/03/05/5-reasons-why-scottish-independence-would-be-an-economic-disaster/'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'that was the article I read, but it was almost 5 months ago'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, not a surprising point of view given the publisher'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'd have to reread it to remember all the points, but I don't even know how accurate they are of the situation'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the article is largely bollocks as a "why not to have independence" as it is pulling holes in things the leader of the "yes" campaign has said,none of the really relevent, and point 5 not even remotely true'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '4 didn't seem that strong of an argument either, but I can't really relate to it, so maybe that's more of an issue than I realize'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the piece is more commentary of the debate, not of the reality'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an independent scotland would find life tough, would be poorer in the short term'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's kinda not the point'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at all'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a newly independent Scotland would not qualify automatically to enter the EU. Oh noes!'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'what do you think the chances are of the vote being successful?'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'remote'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Scots will bottle it because they're a bunch of closet fags'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, it's easier to bitch and moan than to act'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's usually more enjoyable, too'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the whole UK got to vote on Scottish Independence, they'd be gone in a heartbeat'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'high on my wish list is a government taht will run a balanced budget, maybe pay off the country's debts'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need to terms and condtions prominantly displayed'
T3/r7/2014-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Indian subcontinent branch of Al Qaeda recently attacked a pakistani warship by mistake (the plan was to target an American one).  Sources close to the event claimed to have heard some of the sailors on deck screaming "Wrong hull! Wrong hull!" before the blast.'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wonder if any of the IS leadership has seen the movie "Team America"'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'they don't seem like a movie night type of group'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if this passes for higher education in the USA, you might just be screwed: http://tinyurl.com/ptjvmgc'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is it with UK always following USA's lead on unpallatable and unconsciounably stupid policy?'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wake up this morning, hear on my local radio station of schools sending kids home for daring to bring packed lunches, and read in my local newspaper of police helicopters and armed response turning up to both a road rage incident, and someone launching fireworks'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'because obama. thanks, obama'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks obama, see what you did? that was your fault'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they didn't get these ideas from the French...'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'If kids back their own lunches, they may not get all the carbs they required to develop lifestyle diseases later on'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well quite right'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately Nigel Farage talked himself out of my vote by appearing on Fox waxing lyrical about the need for a surveillance state'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might just have to vote for the commies in 2015 instead'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh, dunno who to vote for now. Perhaps I should just auction it'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'are you in a strange situation where you have int, but not wis?'
T3/r7/2014-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'wow, mis'
T3/r7/2014-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's justice for you, a 16yr old girl was suspended from school for SEVEN MONTHS, because a teacher found her PERSONAL diary and found references to marijuana in it'
T3/r7/2014-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morzroth: 'murica'
T3/r7/2014-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck yeah!'
T3/r7/2014-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so homeschooling must be getting quite popular :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Scotland votes. Bloody Scots'
T3/r7/2014-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so if a bill passes the house twice and the senate majority leader refuses to let it onto the senate floor for a vote, what are the legal options?'
T3/r7/2014-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one wonders why the house brought HR24 to a vote when they knew they would never get it to the Senate until after the elections'
T3/r7/2014-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '5+2 week is the real problem. thats what makes people crazy and bomb and shoot everyone. 2+5 is the solution for all the suffering.'
T3/r7/2014-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, that's a bit rich, they're seeking the death penalty for a man who shot dead an intruder and injuring 3 others trying to break in his window at 5:30am'
T3/r7/2014-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Scotland said NO, rumours of vote rigging, but really, they were screwed if they voted YES'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yemeni PM resigns amid growing sectarian war between Sunnhi and Shia groups'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'another massive success for US foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'I fail to see the link between US policies and Yemeni PM resigning. Sure US backed another 'winner'. But US policy cannot change people opinions, what could the US have done policy wise to change the dynamics between the Sunnhi and Shia people?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US has been fermenting sectarian conflict in the middle east and africa via it's foreign policy for 30 years, Jymes'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing you're missing is that they haven't publicly told you that was their intention all along'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all there in black and white, from the US/UK overthrow of a SECULAR Iranian government in the 1950s over oil rights, to the arming/training of the wahabists in Afghanistan to fight Russians in the 1980s, to the funding and supporting of Saddam Hussein against Iran in the 1980s, to the overthrow of a stable Libya by funding/arming Islamisists (that we're now fighting), to the funding/arming of islamisists to try and topple a stable, moderate regime in Syria (islamasists we're now fighting)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US have been bombing Yemen for some time, the bombings have made it impossible for peace there'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for exactly the same reason, US military support props up an authoritarian, brutal regime in Bahrain, and has backed up an horrid regime in Saudi Arabia'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'Specifically the Sunnhi and Shia though. That is much older than 30 years...They have been in conflict since 632 when Muhammad died. I do not disagree that foreign policy has been geared towards destabalizing the region but nothing the US does or could do can change those religious difference.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US has made things far worse'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'so, is the answer to just leave and let the "problem the US started" sort itself out, or is to to fix the mess?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get out'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lulz'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stop supporting saudi arabia and bahrain'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stop supporting israel'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'yeah, that's not going to happen'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'you realize this, right?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then we'll know nothing but conflict'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'didn't realize you were so prescient'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only difference is the conflict will be everywhere except contained over there'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'you think by involving the US in the middle east, it causes the confict to spread beyond the middle east?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that's even in question'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'that's a complete guess on your part'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it might have something to do with every bit of propaganda put out by islamisist refering to western foreign policy in their region'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i suppose they're guessing, too'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'm sure it has nothing to do with fear mongering'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'and i'm sure that even if the US decided to leave, it wouldn't be viewed as "see! we scared them off! they should all die!" type stuff'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, because the US never overeacts out of fear, there wasn't a massive shift towards an authoritarian regime as a result of 9/11'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'because we're obviously dealing with rational people'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, of course not, you're irrational people dealing with irrational people - that's the nature of stupid humans for you'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'right, ONLY the US is using fear as a tool to get its way'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'that's fun, did you just exclude yourself from all of humanity there?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i think we're done here, lol'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot remove yourself from the fact that most of humankind is stupid by definition, humans are irrational and greedy, and the worst of humankind rises to rule'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has always been the case, always will be, for as long as there exist governments'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lol, anarchy then?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have the answers, i'm just stating the problem'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'we call that trolling these days, ya know'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'or, if you'd prefer, we could label it whining'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's whats called trolling then there can never be any debate, never be any solutions, never be any discussion'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'you just said it yourself that you are offering no answers, only pointing out the problems'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying is unless you agree with a consensus formed by known irrational, greedy, warmongering leaders, you're a troll?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'did you imagine finding a good answer here?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lulz, that's not at all what i said'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because i don't have a solution doesn't mean i can't recognise a failed policy when i see it'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i know that every single time you bring up foreign policy, the only answer you've ever accepted is that it's overwhelmingly the fault of the west, and they should take their toys and go home'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and whenever i bring up foreign policy, your sole response is "if we don't make it worse, THEN what?"'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'which is an isolationist and nationalist point of view, which is toxic to international stability'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'You did not even really show the problem correctly though...US policy or the US being there or not would not change things in the region. These conflicts predate the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars nods at Jymes and says, "I concur." Why didn't you?!
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why involve US?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why should my safety be risked because you want to interfere in something you have no business in'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion . o O ( on the other hand the "west" should respect other countries' sovereignty... )
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why should my taxes be raised because you want to interfere in countries you have no business in, which you yourself say have been warring for centuries?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'go'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not just let them get on with it?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'great question, perhaps it has something to do with that region of the world being oil rich, and the US depending greatly on oil, so having a US-friendly regime is to the benefit of the US economy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'but i'm just spit ballin here'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'your safety and taxes aren't impacted by the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're trying to both support and argue against the same policy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you should probably change your complaint to YOUR country's involvement'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rather than the US's'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'personally, i place a significant amount of blame on the jackasses that decided to draw the boundaries while all-but-ignoring the local interests'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'c'mon, Abelinc, you know that what the US does everyone else follows'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'pretty sure that's YOUR country, nuts'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion . o O ( well, at least Scars is not claiming that all those who die so that the US can have a fascist as a friend, die for a noble cause... )
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then THAT is the problem that you're complaining about, NOT what the US does'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the UK pisses them off separately from the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK/US is the same country, makes no difference what label you put on it which is why i'll refer to them as US/UK/NATO/"The West"'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isolationism is probably the least worst solution to all this'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not the same country, but they often have the same interests'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as Abe eludes to'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'isolationism is a fucking terrible foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I elude to nothing of the sort, I expressly claim that you're trying to munge two totally unrelated problems pretending that they are one'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and quite right too, if I were the UK, i'd tell USA to shove TTIP up it's arse, it's a terrible treaty from what little we've seen of it'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'what isolationism?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd also tell NATO to shove it up it's arse'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'isolationism would only work if everyone wanted to play nice...which is impossible since people are people'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lulz'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what is your solution, Jymes? perpetual war forever?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and of course, without things like those, the UK wouldn't be around for very long'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, Japan learned the hard way about isolationism... The Open Door policy is a great read :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'false dichotomy imo'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'besides, i doubt there is ever a period in time in all of history where there was no war ongoing'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and war is such good business that you feel the need to export it all over the world'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's a great excuse to start a war, Scars.... Let's see anything going on? No, then we better start something. Can't let history down :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lol, yeah, because the US thought to itself "i know, i know, i know, lets go blow shit up in the middle east"'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty much exactly it, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of oil'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the MIC'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'uuhhh'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sounds like what happened :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'because of oil <> for the hell of it'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's no different than murdering an old lady for the $20 in her purse'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'in some ways, you could blame OPEC for fucking with the US economy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'except it's completely different, and that's a ridiculous example'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not for a valid or justifiable reason'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then justify it'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'll say it again, but this time try listening'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'the US economy is heavily dependant on oil, the middle east has a bunch of it, if the middle east fucks with oil then it fucks with the US economy, which is bad for everyone in the US and everyone who depends on the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'I don't see how my comments allude to my wanting war. But a diplomatic and at times military involvement can be needed for any countries foreign relations. Taking anything off the table is like burying your head in the sand.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'OPEC works with the US oil companies, Scars. They are the biggest beneficiaries of OPEC policy. The fact that the Arabs are getting rich too is just collateral.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'so, until the US gets off oil, the US has a vested interest in the middle east being US friendly'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not your oil, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try using your own'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'OPEC can fuck with the oil market'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'The USA needs to stop believing that we are the worlds police.  We have enough problems at home.  We need to cut all funding to other nations. and take care of our own first.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'and they have'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Gener!!!  Tigernuts cheers him on.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it's like no one has any idea why isolationist policies are goddamn retarded'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'one question only I will ask you Scars... When OPEC fucks (as you put it) with the oil market, how much do the US Oil companies suffer?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'sigh, let me dig up the 1970s or whatever and show you'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, cuz the monroe policy worked well...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'm glad you're misdefining "Not blowing the world up and causing decades-longs conflict everywhere" as isolationism, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'there ya go'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lulz, that's not what i'm saying'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'but okay'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they didn't cause decades-long conflict...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, that's exactly how you've characterised our differences'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'The usa demanded that oil is traded in dollars .  If it ever goes to another currency we are screwd  lol'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you don't have to bring up the '70s, Scars. The US Congress had to pass a whirlwind tax so that the oil companies dropped some of their loot on the taxpayers.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they've steered favorable outcomes in centuries-long conflicts'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an assertion not backed up by any verifiable fact, abe'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'uh... so that part when opec helped with this ->  By the end of the embargo in March 1974,[1] the price of oil had risen from $3 per barrel to nearly $12.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'like hell it is'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'favourable for whom?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'do you know how much 3 USD  bought in 1974?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's a rather isolationist view'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'US interests...why the hell would we steer outcomes unfavorable to ourselves?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it's really not'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about having an outcome equitable to everyone?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'get your communist bullshit out of here'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'that never works'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it has been ancilarrily favorable to european allies as well'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's no such thing'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'everyone/every country will act in their (and their allies) best interests from their own point of view'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for every winner, there is a loser'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, with statements like that, are you really terribly surprised that pretty much the entire rest of the world hates the US's guts?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'obviously the saudis, with all of their faults, are better off for being US-friendly (at least to our face, lol)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they don't'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's not really the point, Abe. My saying "steering" you are romanticizing what the US does. You make it sound like they just get together after dinner and try to persuade the other side to be nice to them.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do, Abe'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'the rest of the world does not hate the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no aphelion, we were discussing conflict/wars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the US steers the outcomes of those wars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'no, the US decides which side they want to win, and fund that side and help them win - it's possible that in decades from that day, that decision will prove to be bad, but there's no real way of knowing that until time plays out'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the propaganda that the rest of the world hates the world is bullshit...there are many who do, absolutely...but there are royal fucktons who love and have greatly benefitted from the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars concurs with you.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a means of persuasion used by the US is by flooding the pockets of people like Somoza, the Shah of Iran, Noriega, etc. The people find the US persuasion rather unsurvivable.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, let's not forget Marcos  :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, then the money runs out....'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'in terms for foreign policy, for what its worth, i'd prefer the US to help Mexico sort out their problems than to go to the middle east...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's what conflict/wars are, aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'war is decided on by war industry compnies like Raytheon'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will be interesting to see how the movement away from the petrodollar will alter US's outlook'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the US didn't "cause decades-long conflict", which was the claim...the conflicts existed, we "merely" helped choose the winner...however, the other side had its own backers trying to do the same'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'USA war involvement I should say'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'evidence of such a movement? or is that just a blanket statement'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm thinking we'll see more wars, probably some massive incursion into Africa to resource grab'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, I get it. So when the US wants a friendly government, it props up some butcher in exchange for favors. Ok, that makes sense. But where is the conflict/war? Or are you claiming that the citizens running for their lives pose a threat to the US?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'of course we'll see more wars...as has been stated, there has always been wars, from the beginning of time'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing that can't be solved by massive nuclear war between Russia, China and the USA'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'm amused that seemingly all of the world's problems are the fault of the US foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get it out of your systems'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'that's goddamn hilarious'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not our war, aphelion, the war existed before we got there, and it's between two factions which were already there'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm trying to think of armed conflict going on right now, Scars, that is not because of, or at the very least exacerbated by US-centric foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but when I walk into the street and see a street fight between "a friend" and someone I don't like, guess who I'm going to help :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'war in middle east -> US warmongers, war in africa -> US turning a blind eye, war in asia -> US presence in the Pacific, war in central america -> US domestic war on drugs (technically not foreign policy, but whatevs)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's fine, Abe, but if you're going to intervene at that level, you have no moral, ethical or legal right to get pissy when someone who isn't you does the same thing for their friends on the same basis'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'Re: US popularity http://www.pewglobal.org/database/indicator/1/'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'when you're a hammer, everything is a nail'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but the US is the paragon of human rights and democracy, how can they fail to save the people of those countries? Didn't they save the people of Iraq from that guy? The one that lost his head (literally)?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'better track record than most'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'tell that to the dead.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'are you kidding me? it's perfectly natural to help a friend, and get mad at those helping your friends enemy'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'it does not matter who you help Abe, u will still get your butt kicked  :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'yeah, the US has a long history of getting its ass kicked in wars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk at his saying.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is, Scars, doesn't mean your choices are any more or less valid than others'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it's like perspective has no meaning to you'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the dead would be dead regardless, aphelion...as was said numerous times, the war already existed'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: '"friend" is  a very loose term, Scars. The US and Iraq were friends when Iran the shah was deposed. Now Iran is going to help the US in Iraq...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not a loose term, it's merely situation-dependent'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'd say that in terms of foreign relations, "friend" is a time-sensitive and leadership-sensitive term'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we also trained and backed bin laden'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'besides, it's a fallacy to claim that the enemy of my enemy is my friend :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'indeed, and he did a hell of a job against the Soviets :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'a common enemy bringing otherwise unfriendly people together to win is *not* an uncommon endevour'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria were all needless, and have proven to be counterproductive'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lulz'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'just lulz'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and now we all get to bask in the sunny afterglow of that, golf clap Scars, golf clap'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you obviously haven't been facing the sharp end of the stick, Scars :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'circumstances changing decades later doesn't negate the value of things done previously'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'd be utterly shocked if you've ever had to take cover from enemy fire a day in your life aphelion'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Bin Laden turned against the US because the US told him to take a walk when he asked them to help them after he did the US a favor by fighting the Soviets.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it's all so simple!'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, he didn't exactly do the US a favor by fighting the soviets...he did that for his own interests'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'now, I am not going to say the US policy was wrong, I am going to say that they should have known better than to tell someone with a gun to take a walk.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so if you want to tackle the current issue, you're going to need to "deal" with Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he was being invaded, and had billions of dollars to lose'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'its not clear to me why qatar enters that discussion, but i agree that saudi arabia and turkey do not appear to be helping matters'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yes, he did, Abe. But had he not  done so, the US would have lost a very strategic part of the world. Or do you think the Soviets invaded Afghanistan  on a  whim.? Why do you think the US is in there now?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'funding, Scars'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'are you aware of some paper trail?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's why the US backed him, absolutely...but you stated it as him doing it FOR the US, which is totally baseless'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'she the map of the region, what is the relationship of Afghanistan to the former USSR and the present Russia?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our governments are, who am I to doubt them?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'link?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I said he did them a favor, which he did.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'and are we talking about qatari government or individuals?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, he didn't'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'starting point of :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29004253'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I have to go eat breakfast :)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion waves happily.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-regional-spymasters-make-tactical-changes-to-bolster-syrian-moderates/2014/02/18/5d69596c-98f0-11e3-b931-0204122c514b_story.html'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'well, that article is hardly conclusive in establishing a link between qatari government and the terrorist organizations active in the region, but under the assumption that there actually is a link, then yes... those nations should be dealt with'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally a bit miffed at the automatic jump to "provide links" when something is self-evident, but unhelpful to your point of view'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it would be helpful if the US and its middle-eastern allies could at least have a unified agenda for the region, which i think is sorely lacking'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey won't allow it's airspace to be used for attacks against ISIS, or for further troops to be stationed there'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'so, here's the deal, when you present something as fact... its your burden to provide evidence when requested'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it's border with Syria is deliberately porous to allow funds, arms, to go one way and for injured ISIS fighters to get treatment the other'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'so, be miffed'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'turkey hasn't exactly been a stellar ally in the region, i agree'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'but turkey's alliances in europe make them somewhat immune from US pressure'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'so that's fun'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your best option in the region is to get Russia on board and get them to collaberate with Syria. Chances are Assad will let Russia bomb ISIS where they won't allow the U S'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be the pragmatic thing to do'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but USA already burnt that bridge when they funded NGO's that worked to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine that led to all that nastiness'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure Russia would still oblige them if they asked'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'why must we ask?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it would solve an issue?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it might make things easier rather than harder, it might help solve a problem rather than exacerbating it'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh wait, sorry, that's not what US foreign policy is about'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'lol, yeah US foreign policy is mostly about doing everything we can to make it as hard as possible on ourselves'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'because obviously'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does appear that way'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i know that when i want to see the color green, i tend to'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you'd have to ask your president why not involve RUssians in Syria, though to be honest, he won't be able to answer you - you'd need to ask Haliburton, Kissenger, and the MIC lot'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let's face it, they run your foreign policy, not your elected officials'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'll agree that you see it that way'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd find it hard to find anyone outside of the neocon fold that doesn't'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like you said earlier, it boils down to oil and money'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it boils down to US interests, and in this specific case, it's oil and money, yes'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, then we can dispose of any notion that this has anything to do with bringing stability to a region, or fighting enemies'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'would be awful nice if the US could become energy indepedent, to rid ourselves of the need to give a fuck about who is in charge over there (beyond humanitarian reasons)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'no, stability in the region is to the benefit of US interests'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll never happen, even if you were energy independent'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'an enemy to US intersts -> an enemy of the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'it's really not that complicated'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is the US?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Scars sighs.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'depends on what your definition of is is'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the way you've just phrased it, half the american people are a threat to america's interests'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the UK's part, they are worried about the number of jihadi's going to fight with ISIS, and worried about them coming home. What most people are not shouting about is the clusterfuck of an immigration policy that led to such a huge volume of people from utterly incompatible cultures being given leave to stay here over the last 40 years that has made this possible'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'i'll pretend that's not racist'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for myself, any attempt to curtail my freedoms, spy on me, or raise my taxes on the pretence that they somehow provide a threat will be met with deep resentment. They can go to hell. If they come back and blow up stuff that's the governments fault, not mine'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Scars: 'and if they blow up the people or things that you care about?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, deeply racist to want people being allowed to stay in the country to be people who actually care about the country tehy're going to live in and want it to do well'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i suppose it was deeply racist, because of political correctness of the sort you're exhibiting now, more than 250 underage girls were groomed and raped, and though known to the police and government it was swept under the rug because the perpetrators were Pakistanis, and they couldnt' risk antagonising that racial group, who were living in a society within a society, for fear of being branded racist'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd rather call a spade a spade, ta'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll let you read up on that fap-inducing fiasco while I go swim (for as long as I still can before they ban swimming pools 'for the earth')'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't worry about financial crisis or war, there's a new series of Downton Abbey starting tonight'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, tv advert depicting a woman breastfeeding, doubt they'd allow that in the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I forget what country it was from, but I saw this commercial for perfume that featured a naked woman doing a sexy dance with the bottle.  They had all the censors in place, though, so you couldn't see anything but naked arms, legs, neck, and tummy.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i was thinking they'd ban it on grounds that the pc trendy brigade are utterly against breast feeding on grounds of it being healthy, scientifically proven to be more beneficial to infants than chemical milk, and therefore mysoginist'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'Don't know what part of the US you think believe that but its not around me. You need to stop just hating on the US and speak only about the people who think that way. Only ignorant people stereotype people'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stereotyping is social commentary shorthand'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'like I said ignorance'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also both necessary and useful'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you did away with stereotyping, businesses would not be able to target their products at their target market'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'if only we all stayed 18-25 yr olds'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone uses stereotyping all the time, whether they realise it or not. It's not a dirty word, it's -not- ignorant in of itself, only in that it can be misused'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'whatever man, like you misuse it. I get it you believe US = evil....so every argument you make is worthless cause it is allased on I hate the US. Sure you come up with facts but it is always suspect because I know its all about proving how bad the US is'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you think that then you have some significant difficulty with reading comprehension. Whenever I say US is doing this, or US is doing that, i'm talking about the US establishment, not US people'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'This time it was geared towards people. What policy is against breast feeding?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a matter of government policy so much as how trends/media treat issues that then translate to the way people behave in real life. In this case, breast feeding has been, for whatever reason (I suspect tied to the crap feminism brigade) dirty or bad for whatever reason. How that has  been shown in real life is with increasing number of incidents of women breastfeeding being singled out for unusual treatment - usually at restaurants or in public places'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'And that is limited to certain groups of people in certain parts of the US and I imagine other countries as well.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, but unfortunately for you, the USA is where crazy stuff like that tends to start, mostly because the USA is still the world leader in popular media. There are plenty of other examples.....'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being a world leader means you have responsibilities :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think of it like being a parent'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'Already said...I get it. US = evil'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ps. YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD!'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well we did inflict Downton Abbey on you, so I can't claim no fault on this'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and X-Factor'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'You need to realize the liberals who think the way you represent all the US as being are less than half the population and government.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have a problem with liberals'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rather a world of liberals than a world of socially ultra-conservative neocon warmongers'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SirCanada lives in fear.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then i'd rather have a world of freemarket libertarians than both of those'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'So would I, so don't lump me in with all the yahoos'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't lump people :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look up a TV program called "The Only Way Is Essex" and wonder if that's the way I want my country portrayed :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tigernuts, I dunno what media you're watching, but breastfeeding "wherever" has never been more accepted in the US than it is today within the past 70 years'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there have been enormous movements toward that end, both with "people" and with the establishment'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well good, abe, even though that's a rather odd timescale to use'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not really...if I said "ever", then you'd point out that in the prairie days, you'd see it everywhere or some shit like that :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but within the timescale I used, there's more-visible record than prior to that, with TV, movies and print media portrayals'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true, but it's not really any better than AGW zealots choosing a time scale to base their agenda. In most recent times there is a perception here that that movement has peaked and is going the other way'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i'm glad you approve of breast milk :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so it covers female entry into industrialization and feminism timeline'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the country approves of breast milk...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yay! stick it to the feminists, you breast haters!'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'despite what you fantasize about US intentions'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'US feminists like breast milk, too...dunno about UK ones :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK feminists hate everyone'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'milk isn't a person...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Albertog: 'hey!!! take what you said and put a damn cork in it!!'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he was, about 40 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then a hater took him out.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you see the anti-feminist womens group that got some media traction a few months back?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you'd need to be a bit more specific than that...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28446617'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are a whole lot of female groups that are anti-feminist'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if I recall right, either NOW (National Organization of Women) or LoWV (League of Women Voters) got all kinds of attention not too long ago for taking stances against women.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but that's because "feminist" is a pretty non-defined term...there are feminazis which do very little to help with women's causes, and there are steinum types'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you'd need to define "against women"...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was an argument surrounding Murdoch's UK newspaper "The Sun" which for decades has had a topless model on Page 3 (hence the term 'Page 3 girl' - He was considering removing it (basically because online means men have other more immediate outlets for soft porn) - but it got my attention because the BBC had a mini-debate between a feminist and an ex-page 3 model'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hmm, why did I think it was page 6?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in some circles, a page 3 model would be a feminist...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well honestly, the feminist in the debate put forward the normal cliched feminist responses'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the ex-page 3 girl put forward a really pro-woman argument saying that biologically women like to be attractive to a male in order to get a mate, she did it because she wanted to and it empowered her'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which opinion is right?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my opinion was "If you don't like page 3 topless models, don't buy the god damned newspaper, why the fuck are you trying to ruin it for other people?"'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'or buy the newspaper and thumb past page 3'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, that was it "The Sun markets itself as a family-friendly newspaper". Really? What the fuck is a family-friendly newspaper?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's plenty of articles in the paper that I'd either disagree with or have no interest in...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what kind of control freak would seek to ban topless models from a newspaper well known for topless models on page 3?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Mary Whitehouse?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, when you can't convince people to think like you, your next step is to legislate that they think like you'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that does appear to be how things work, Razkin'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, people aren't comfortable letting adults be adults'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you realize that because of their placement you could easily expose fine-looking titties to underaged members of society?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, it's like going to the beach'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, the argument was that it wasn't adults that they were doing it for, raz ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same feminazi's that would use that argument, Hanslanda, you know in the next breath will be giving their 8yr olds smartphones and tablets with internet access'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you weirdos in the old country might not have any issue with that, but over here in Yankee Doodleland that happens to be against the law in more than a few (not necessarily equal) ways.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ugh, I love arguing about nudity, but I have to leave :('
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, it was a banner day when new york state supreme court ruled that anywhere a guy could be topless, so could a chix0r :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are far more corrosive things in our society that they appear unmoved by, forgive me if i don't sound convinced'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'bruce willis' daughter looks too much like him for it to be hot'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'really Abe?  I guess now guys will not ne allowed to go topless.  '
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why would anyone go topless in New York?  It gets too cold there for too long.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gener: it was over a decade ago'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK's opposition party is touting an 8 quid/hr minimum wage.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'quid = dollar?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'do they let girls go topless outside there?  hehe'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a little like the US's $15 minimum wage agenda, but cheaper'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quid = pound sterling'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'there was a campaign over the summer..'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes gener'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'she can't be fondling her tits while walking down the street, but just being topless is perfectly legal'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'that's awesome.  haha'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Albertog: 'we are not having a debate over the $15 minmum wage'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think 8 quid would be nearly enough'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's three people, we're legally allowed to.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$15 is nearer the mark here'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'get ready for food prices at McDonalds to go up because they are going to pay $15 min to workers now.  $10 Big Nac anyone?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's probably too much for the US, Gener, and i'll explain the differences between the US and UK that would make it so'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'sorry for so many typos  grrr'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more probably they'll cut back on locations, particularly now that Corporate is going to be on the hook for hiring mishaps that lead to problems.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, the low paid have their wages subsidised by a very expensive and very complicated welfare state, which amounts for about a third of our entire tax take'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, in franchise locations, I mean.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it makes no sense that the tax payer should subsidise big companies to pay shit wages'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it was 1992 that new york declared that it's unconstitutionally illegal under sexual discrimination to have any laws against chix being topless where it's legal for a guy to be topless...People v. Santorelli'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and since you're not allowed to support strict immigration controls here because that makes you an isolationist and therefore racist, a minimum wage hike is about the only way to go'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mcdonald's is already having problems, anyways, so expect chipotle's and competitors to suffer similar fates since they too will be affected by a $15 minimum wage.  Hell, most anything to do with food, period, is going to be affected.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, we're part of the EU, who some years ago decided to let in a whole bunch of poverty-ridden central and eastern european former-communist countries. The result on the lower end of the jobs market here would be like what would happen if the USA allowed full and un-fettered immigration with no papers needed to all of Mexico and Central America'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, we sort of do that already'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, i'm just saying that this is worse :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have immigration control vs Mexico, even if it is in name only (you're not calling your president a liar, are you?)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Mr. Have the Healthcare You Want?  No need, that's just redundant.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no sympathy for McDonalds bleating about $15. Ultimately fast food, like verything else, needs to find it's true cost/true value, and that means it's cost without the need for the provision of that service involving abusing someone else'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if by having a $15 minimum wage, the cost of everything in mcdonalds went up 50c, would you even notice?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yep, I would.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'You couldn't actually keep mcdonalds afloat if minimum wage at the company was $15.  Even with a 50c increase.  (You're looking at ~ 1B deficit from increasing to $12 right now)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that might explain why you're the fattest country in the world :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take another example: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/business/ieconomy-apples-ipad-and-the-human-costs-for-workers-in-china.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Albertog: 'can you guys just give up on the $15 min. wage debate?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has been said that if apple increase the cost of an iphone by $8, they could raise the wages of their chinese factory workers 10fold'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but that's because I know full well it wouldn't just be McDonald's that was affected.  All of their suppliers would likely get hit, all of their competitors would too, and all the peripherals (family farms, grocery stores, wholesale outlets, bakeries, etc) would as well.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do they pay now, $8?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'taking out McDonald's would be on par with taking out Ford Motor Co.  You'll never be able to isolate to just them.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Albertog: '$8.45/hr'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it varies locally'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why a minimum wage should be applied across a country (or a state, really)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it IS across a state now.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in reality, it would see the cost of the fast food rising a bit, and a loss of a bunch of jobs'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when they brought in the minimum wage here.... nothing happened'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ya'll don't eat out as much'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you keep reminding us of this'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because we're all poor'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'people seem to think an increase in min wage is gonna give money to the poor...piad for by the rich. Not gonna happen. Everything in the value chain will increase so the owner can get the same profit margin. Just leads to massive inflation across the board. Nothing solved.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that depends on whether you have a welfare state propping up the people on minimum wage, jymes'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the answer is "no", then you're absolutely right'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not quite, places like McDonald's are sort of at the whim of the consumer so they're more willing to take minor hits (ie, the cost of cheese went up about 5 years ago so they invented the McDouble, which is an existing double cheeseburger minus one slice of cheese).'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could also argue that if you hadn't let in tons of unskilled immigrants, then the demand for those jobs might have become sufficiently low that they raise the wages volunteerily in order to attract recruits. I believe that's what a free market would do'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'rc'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jymes: 'mis'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thus is the danger with welfare and dependency, it leads down a slippery road which the UK is a bit further ahead on than the US'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'McDonalds should give salary deduction to all employess above manager postion to pay for the increase.  Don't pass it on to the consumers'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'McDonalds managers probably don't get paid much above their frontline staff'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'that's why i said all above manager'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a tiny number of people then'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it appears that Glen Beck isn't fond of ecosocialists, who new? http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/09/21/f-the-police-communists-radicals-spotted-throughout-climate-march-in-new-york-city-demand-revolution-nothing-less/'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'tiny but higest paid  :P'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tiny number of people proportionally, but not all that tiny amount of savings...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'of course it wouldn't be likely to happen, since those are the ones making the decisions'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you took the entire salary base of everyone in mcdonalds above manager level and split it among the people below them, it'd probably turn out to something daft like $10 a year each'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's also important to note, however, that mcdonalds doesn't pay most mcdonalds workers...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you couldn't really do that'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a franchise business...people at a mcdonalds site work for some guy, not for mcdonalds'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is true, it's a franchise - the globalist weapon of choice to avoid tax'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's going to change a bit, Abe, given the recent decision against corporate operations.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what was that, Hans?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that decision said corporate was legally responsible for mistakes that happen in franchises.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that still wouldn't change...they're still not employees of mcdonalds, because mcdonalds doesn't own the store'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that just leads to crackdowns on franchisees, doesn't change who pays salaries'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'given this ruling, mcdonalds will either have to place more oversight on franchisees (who are really up in arms about this) or take away hiring control period.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what lead to the ruling? what was the complaint?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'll have to look it up, but I think it was something serious like discrimination or something.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was it discrimination, or was it Discrimination?'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk at his saying.
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, when I worked at McD, the owner was a guy from india that owned 5 shops'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'here's a surrounding article on it but I don't think it's focused directly on the topic http://www.chicagolawbulletin.com/Archives/2014/07/31/NLRB-McDonalds-Franchise-7-31-14.aspx'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'essentially, though, the basic aard analogy would be that Boot approves use of its name for an unclanned person and then because of things that person did Boot itself gets disbanded.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not an expert in franchise law, but i'm guessing there would have to be some measure of duty of care'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as a UK taxpayer, I really resent franchises'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all because of Starbucks'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'minimum wage in the UK, using today's exchange rate is $10.50/hr'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'note that at this time, that's basically just one lawyer making a declaration that he plans to treat mcdonalds that way, and there was no ruling'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'McDonald's has been through enough PR disasters (1990's McLibel suit, anyone?) that they probably aren't going to idly wait for the next one to explode.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even if there's no ruling, the mere whiff of being perceived as a bad employer breaking rules is probably enough to enact more than a few changes.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not an employer...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the public will see them as one, which is what they'll be fighting against.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they've never been perceived to be a world-class place to work...they've always been what you point to and say "If you are a failure in life, you'll end up flipping burgers"...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's no public danger here'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'McDonald's is still undisputed king, but they're already getting nervous about losing share to fast casual.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'marketshare has nothing whatsoever to do with this'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'has everything to do with it.  Potential customers who are already thinking there are better choices out there are going to run a little bit faster because they don't want to be that person who supports a villianous company letting things get out of hand.  The "tehcnically" bits where corporate isn't involved won't register.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, this has no bearing at all on public perception'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'public perception is already that mcdonalds doesn't pay well'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fast food sales are slowing in the UK because people are realising they're eating themselves to death'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is that across the board (to include more categories than cheap fast food like McDonalds), or just the McDonald's sector?  In the US, for example, we're eating out just as much as ever, but we're upgrading to at least fast casual--chipotle, five guys and other gourmet burger joints, and so on.  I imagine some are even skipping the "fast" in general in favor of fine dining.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all of it, Hans. McDonalds in the UK already (a few years ago, thanks to some bad publicity of health, combined with food labelling requirements) cleaned up it's act in respect to the CONTENT of their food, and started offering a lot more healthier options,  but generally, fast food sales are slowing'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hmm, maybe it's time to make Chipotlaway a real product...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can be pretty assured that I can go to McD's in the UK, buy some food and have it not make me ill'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'despite it's tarnished reputation'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in my most recent visit to the USA, however, fast food made me ill so i lived off steak at Applebees :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only thing different from mcdonald's and applebee's here is the packaging.  They get their food from the same sources and largely in the same amounts.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i was baffled at how expensive your beer was, though'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ice is expensive, you know.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think the only way you'd settle the wage argument would be to see the accounts of a typical fast food franchise'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but that's what you get when you pay your employees too well'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, i'd better rephrase that then - your beer was pretty much the same price as it is here, which was odd since everything else is way cheaper in the uSA'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Beer is king here thanks to our german immigrants.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your beer sucks :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'shrug, nothing lasts forever...'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm spoilt, we have a number of microbrewers in the area here'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but all our beer practically sailed over with said immigrants.'
T3/r7/2014-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we have our fair share of micros, too.'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is Sandra Fluke, and why is she such a twat?'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shame nobody dropped a nuke on NYC on sunday, you could've killed all those climate change protesting hypocrites'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, so the US cops might be nazi's, and violent thugs, but in the UK, they scramble 2 police vans and a police helicopter for assisting a bailiff with property reposession'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/oxlhpob'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'knock yourselves out :-)'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do big news agencies such as AP, Reuters, and the large media companies like Fox, ABC, MSNBC, even BBC to a lesser extent, never give links or bibliographies?'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reading agenda pieces from these sites is like arguing with Scars'
T3/r7/2014-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently Chelsea Clinton is soon to give birth, i'm sure you're all absolutely ecstatic and excited to hear about that'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, bomb squad was called to  pennsylvania high school after a student left his lunch tin outside'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no real news from the UK, it's political party "conference" season, with the Labour party conference going on, doing a fantastic job at proving they're not capable of governing. Their musical theme for this conference is "Living in a Box" by the band of the same name'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you are the same size as two weeks ago, that news.'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's "olds", happened nearly a week ago'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'it's ok you take the week off.  ISIS has this week covered.'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'covered with what?'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'blood'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'glad to see that some form of compromise was reached with Syria'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'The US and some Arab "allies" have bombed ISIS in Syria.'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the Syrian government were informed in advance of the targets in return for not trying to shoot down the aircraft'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it stops short of "giving permission" but is better than doing it unprovoked'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they could use all female soldiers. then isis will just disband. cuz they will not get into heaven if they were killed by women'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Kurds have fighting units entirely staffed by women'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so, if isis groups see the women, do they run away?:P'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or change the rules ?'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, don't really care - it's over there'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our Labour party has a $13 minimum wage as a centrepiece'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ed Flibblebland things spending an extra $4bn on our health system will magically fix it'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i looked up "delusional" in the dictionary and it made reference to this'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh btw, turns out that the White House Fence Jumper was on SSRI's, what a shocker, i'm so surprised'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, there's a spin-off group of the occupy movement that takes in donations and uses them to buy up bade college debt for pennies on the dollar then writing it off'
T3/r7/2014-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'FBI are gagging local and state police about the capabilities of contraversional surveillance gear that allows them to eavesdrop on cellphone calls and track people using their phone'
T3/r7/2014-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'French farmers in Brittany dump unsold vegetables and animal waste at, and set fire to, local tax office'
T3/r7/2014-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love french farmers, they rock'
T3/r7/2014-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Alabama UPS shooter, police source claims he was on SSRi's'
T3/r7/2014-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brHqBcZqNzE'
T3/r7/2014-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a good question: Why do the FBI crime statistics show 0 murders in Newtown Connecticut (site of the Sandy Hook massacre) for the period when it happened?'
T3/r7/2014-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in hugely better news, Eric Holder resigns'
T3/r7/2014-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his resignation gives Obama a degree of separataion between him and all the really fucked up things that Eric Holder was party to on his watch'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I see there is an anti-ISIS march in Paris. That will teach those bastards.'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Eric Holder being prosecuted and receiving a long prison sentence would be good news. He must have been the most corrupt AG in a hundred years'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The administration may be the most corrupt since WW2, so Holder is ahead of the pack.'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..also I see from the timestamps that I am replying to yesterday's comments here...'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada bonks himself and grimaces in pain.
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts licks Tinada.
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fired worker beheads coworkers in Okalahoma after they refused to convert to Islam....'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '... is shot dead by a supervisor with a gun'
T3/r7/2014-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK parliament votes to use a token airforce in Iraq at ISIS. George Galloway MP rips the parliament apart in his speech'
T3/r7/2014-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hmm, Associate Press editor launches major criticism of Obama campaign over numerous ways in which information is being withheld from the press and journalists are being targeted by the DOJ'
T3/r7/2014-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Eric Holder to take up a job with JP Morgan Chase carrying an annual salary of 77 million dollars'
T3/r7/2014-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being corrupt pays'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll love you national healthcare works in the UK. A while back they were concerned that people were having to wait too long to see their family doctor for routine appointments, so they introduced a national target of 14 days maximum wait so they could name/shame the practices that weren't making the grade. So scroll forward to now: Doctors surgeries no longer book appointments in advance (at all)'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some great socialist proponent should tell me how that is an improvement'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'law of unintended consequences'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'law of unintended consequences which was written by Professor "It is obvious that"'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'New Orleans police are goading residents into outfitting their homes with police-run surveillance cameras..... AND charging them $10 a month for it'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more corruption in the Democrat camp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xCBBcpKeYZg'
T3/r7/2014-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how long before the Hong Kong protests turn into a bloodbath'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just to prove that the UK is still way ahead of the USA on the fascist government stakes - not only did they manage to sneak through a national network of number-plate recognition cameras, and have been added 10s of thousands of public cctv cameras to the network essentially giving police the power to track any car in realtime along with recording there progress for 2 years, but now the (in-power) Tory party is announcing laws that, in the name of fighting Isis, you understand, will make it illegal to criticise the government'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is illegal for tourists to read the book "1984" in public in Thailand'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can fuck ladyboys and children, you can even purchase a sex slave, but you can't read a dystopian novel'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ebola detected in Dallas. You're all going to die'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'good riddance'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately it's too cold here for it to take hold'
T3/r7/2014-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would probably spread over the southern US states including California, and Mexico.....'
T3/r7/2014-10-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has been the Conservative Party annual conference this week (UK's ruling party) and the news is that they are looking and sounding like the National Socialist Party of Germany in the 1930s. It's a tad scary'
T3/r7/2014-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'a debate on.. '
T3/r7/2014-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'a debate on... immtalk?'
T3/r7/2014-10-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bobolai: 'about war.'
T3/r7/2014-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wut?'
T3/r7/2014-10-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a recent survey of British members of parliament found 71% of them didn't know how the banking system worked and believed only the government could create money'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so who do you think controls the amount of money that is circulation in the USA?'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't know for sure, I think the Federal Bank has a large influence.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's really just banks in general, create money out of thin air'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'how much they create is affected by the fed.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'It's not really out of thin air.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'The bank loans money from me. Which they can then loan to some other guy.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Who loans the money to the bank(deposits it), and they loan it to another dude.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'actually they do just make it from thin air'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'etc etc etc'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'They need 10% coverage I think.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'So if you give em 10K, they can lend that out and "create" 90K in debt.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'And your 10K are somehow supposed to ensure the system doesn't collapse.'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the principle of fractional reserve banking, Ceriq, however, it's based on their balance sheets, not on your deposits'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what they do is they sell each other repackaged debt, sometimes with one debt appearing in many packages, thus making the balance sheet appear much larger than it actually is'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so in reality, they can pretty much create debt out of thin air with little/no limits'
T3/r7/2014-10-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just provided nobody ever calls in their debts, because if that were to happen you'd have a colossal banking collapse'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA could solve their out-of-control cops problem AND save the tax-payer a small fortune at the same time by making a small change to their law: If a police authority is sued because of the overzealous, violent, inappropriate or illegal activities of an office, it should be THAT officer that is held personally liable, not the employer'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it currently stands, the police authority itself carries the can, so the fines and settlements come out of tax payers money, meaning there is no incentive for them to clean up their act'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'if that were the case every cop in the usa would be involved in a lawsuit of somekind or another.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'from simple false arrest  on up'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'not to mention that blame never lies with just a single entity but spread among several. The aurgment that IF the department did  a better job of screening applicants said bad cop would have never became a cop.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you'd have no cops'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about you just prosecute bad cops rather than justifying their actions?'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'm all for getting rid of most cops, not like they have any useful role in a free society'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'how about you do a better job of screening applicant's, training, etc... so there are no "bad" cops. you forget copse are still responsible. if a cop shoots someone w/o justification he is still charges with murder.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would they do that? they actively look to recruit thugs'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'and that is the problem that needs to be fixed.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the same way that they actively look to confiscate money and property at traffic stops knowing most people can't afford to fight it'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't fix that'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'if you can't fix that, then you can't fix anuthing else either. s why bother with anything?'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a matter of scale, the policy of turning police into thugs is one that is brought in from the top down'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you somehow have a way of changing the entire direction of federal law enforcement policy (and i'll let you into a secret, it doesn't matter which of the two identikit US political parties gets in, they're the same) it won't change'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'it's really simple. Identify the problem, identify the root cause of the the problem, fix the root cause and problem is solved. ANYTHING else is just a quick fix (band-aid) or temp workaropund.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're suggesting the simple fix is the destruction of the two-party system of politics in the USA/'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'that's a huge assumption and an entier chang of subject matter.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the same solution in the UK, destroy the system of government and it's participants and start again. Hardly a simple fix'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'Were did U get simple fix from? I never said anythinf about a simple fix.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"[07 Oct 18:23:51] (Debate) Fanil: 'it's really simple. Identify the problem, identify the root cause of the the problem, fix the root cause and problem is solved."'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'so the process is simple. where in that did I saY THE fix WAS SIMPLE?'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your statement implied the process was simple'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a simple process'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'nope. you assumed that. I never implies nor said that. '
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so nobody should believe what you're saying?'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would be simpler, bringing down your system of government, or making cops personally responsible from law suits brought against them as a result of their actions that were contrary to the law or contrary to the level of conduct expected of them?'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'i'm really digging the personal accountability for cops, wish it was a thing'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'just like medical malpractice'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something needs to be done before they just start killing people in large numbers'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'good idea let the insurance companies win while everyone else loses.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's that different to now?'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the insurance companies deal with it, the premiums will go up, that again puts pressure on the cops by means of their employer to stop it'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'Cops ARE personally responsible for thier actions already'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'scenario:'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'i would argue that they aren't, paid administrative leave isn't punishment to cops, that punishment to citizens and tax payers'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'we get to foot the bill for the overtime of the cops replacing said person'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'not to mention we are paying for his/her admin leave'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'if the city gets sued for one cops actions, the cop isn't held accountable'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'innocent until proven guilty. '
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what an antiquated statement, nobody goes by that anymore'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'if the investigation proves the cop was wrong then he's on his own and has FULL personal responsilility'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not true'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in almost all civil cases brought against the police, the department settles out of court'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehnsomnyak: 'atleast not monitarily'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'civil vs criminal is comparing apples to oranges. I don't mind debating but you keep wanting to change the subject.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this whole conversation started because i suggested that cops were made personally responsible for suits brought against them as a result of violence or acting in a thuggish way'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they -are- civil cases'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cops are untouchable in the eyes of the criminal law, you know that'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'tell that to all the cops in jail atm.'
T3/r7/2014-10-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're lonely'
T3/r7/2014-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's 1-0 in the USA vs Spain 'Dying due to incompetent response to Ebola' contest'
T3/r7/2014-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Landscaper claiming employer fired him for owning gun files suit'
T3/r7/2014-10-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'files suit and jolly good on him, it shouldn't be tolerated in the same way as they shouldn't be able to fire someone for being gay'
T3/r7/2014-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'Same sex marriage. What's the big fuss? If 2 peeps wanna marry, how does that affect you? and whys do people feel the need to prevent it?'
T3/r7/2014-10-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a classically rhetorical question, Fain. '
T3/r7/2014-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same sex marriage, who cares'
T3/r7/2014-10-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and government should have the power to legislate marriages revoked, none of their business'
T3/r7/2014-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, John Kerry has pre-empted the establishment having "bullshit" called upon their approach to climate change with a statement: "But, even if climate alarmists are wrong, nothing bad can come of enacting their taxes, restrictions and regulations, "'
T3/r7/2014-10-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only think John Kerry is useful for is anal floss to a fat person'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the natives are getting restless - national health service workers are taking strike action'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'has anyone ever calculated if there is more "money" or "valuable things"?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'say. you dig up a nugget. does the money get printed for that?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'a gold nugget'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i mean - if you dig up 1m tons of gold. what happens? a lot of people become poorer for very little real reason'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no one drunk here?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a 6ft 3 heiffer, holy cow!'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it OK to hate Taylor Swift?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'hate is a very strong word for someone you dont really know'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of people i don't know that i genuinely hate, such as.... Tony Blair, Theresa May, George Bush, Barrack Jesus H Christ Obama, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein, Harry Reid, Eric Holder, John Boehner'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fair do's then, i just 'greatly dislike' Taylor Swift'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'why?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why what?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'you hate sappy country songs or something?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate fakers'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and she isn't all that good'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'it sounds like you pay too much attention to people who couldn't care less what you think about them'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does that mean you shouldnt' have opinions of people?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'she makes a lot of money doing what she does and a lot of people love her'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'you can but it doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'having opinions of people that you can actually influence makes a lot more sense'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it any less relevent that i strongly dislike than others loving her?'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'if you can convince those people to dislike her as well it is much more relevant'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having opinions on the people that run your country is quite relevent'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would argue that NOT having an opinion on them is inappropriate'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'you're right about that'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so provided Taylor Swift stays out of my life, i'll let her off'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that also means that she needs to stay a-political and not be a minion for the UN'
T3/r7/2014-10-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Indignation: 'do we need a hair channel?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have a patient with Ebola in your isolation ward, an extremely infectious disease that kills most of the people it infects. Do you A) Quarantine and monitor the medical team treating him until the incubation period is up, or b) allow said medical team members to go about their lives potentially infecting people on a plane flight?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'C) Nuke the city.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't help in this case'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Why not?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it had already spread'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Nuke the other cities too.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just nuke all cities then?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'works for me'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'If umbrella would've just gotten their fingers out of their asses faster, the T-virus would never have been able to leave racoon city.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'actually serios .. introduce quarantine proceedure for all returning from said contried  like 2 weeks ago .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they appear to want it to spread, Tzad'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'But nooo, Do the humany thing, build a wall, incite mass panic, have it spread outside because people are trying to get their own loved ones into safety, and THEN nuke the city.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why none of the normal quarantine procedures have been followed'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'call it incompetence, call it by design, fact is it's happening'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Next question.. There is fcking ebola in west africa. Why on gods earth, and I am an atheist, would you want to travel there.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'And what on gods earth are you thinking allowing people to come back from there?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the people making the decisions are the government, and to question the government's actions or motivation makes you a terrorist'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'And why in the nine hells are they flying the diseased back? I know they'll get better care in the "western" world, but it's a deadly disease ffs. contain it.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see previous 2 possible reasons, incompetence, or deliberate'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '. and another thing .. I deal with Haz waste at work  .. these pl have No idea on how to wear a haz mat suit I am seeing .. and we ship em back to us .. !  stupid  is now bacterial .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Or c) They ignored the people who knew better who were saying "DON'T DO THAT!", because they're americans and they do as they damned well please, and scientists are all a bunch of quacks because hurr durr we have god on our side.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Honestly, ya'll are no better than the islamists when it comes to religion.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't buy that, CeriQ'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like watching Idiocracy'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'lets ship the infected to Syria .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'There's already scare-talk going on about how isis could use ebola as a biological weapon.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? they don't deserve it. Ship em to Saudi Arabia or Israel'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Can't we let all the jesus freaks prove their loyalty and devotion and have them hug and pray away the ebola from the infected?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'petrochemical based economy .. hello ? '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'If it works, I'll freaking convert on the spot.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't understand the religion aspect, Ceriq, have you seen news I haven't?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Nah, I'm just bringing that angle in because god damn I am tired of atrocities commited in the name of this or that god.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'And how people cannot do any wrong because we have GOD on our side, hurr durr!'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's no different to attrocities committed in the name of governments'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people cannot do any wrong because we have the STATE on our side, hurr durr!'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the currency is the sword ..  .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Yes. But you can always argue and rebel against a shitty government.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'It's hard to argue with something that isn't real.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the really big bads of the past century have been in the name of non- (or quasi-) religious ideologies, mostly'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not any more you can't, ceriq'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'nice of you to include Nazi into that  Tinada'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'commies, commies, nazis in about that order, it seems'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'The nazis weren't really the worst tho Tzadkiel.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't buy the religious aspect, it would be fairer and more accurate to say that the worlds ills are generally caused by groups of people who seek to force power over others. That covers ISIS and US aggression'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Exactly Tinada. China, Russia, Germany.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Germany ? '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Ok, the third reich, sorry.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Or we could go Mao, Stalin, Hitler.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '.. Oh we are doing history too .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'name where and who caused the last 10 military conflicts'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Muslims?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Or christians.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'money , money money .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That's a trick question, right? The USA and countries on -stan? :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'worldwide, Ceriq'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not all of em, Tinada'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I was just trying to simplify :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Fact is, you guys(the us) haven't been at war since vietnam. You've been in wars, but you haven't actually declared war on anyone.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have ISIS, which is a combined fault of the middle east and western foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Israel vs Palestine, which is the fault of Israel'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ukraine, which is the fault of George Soros'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'And you reaaaaaally milk that cow to get out of the geneva conventions rules about treatments of POWs..'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Libya, the fault of the US'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Weeeeell.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Syria, the fault of the US'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iraq, the fault of the US'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Israel vs palestine is kinda both of their faults.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Afghanistan, the fault of Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the US'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Falklands, the fault of Argentina'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bosnia, the fault of all involved'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'One side grabs another countries land. They respond not with "WTF?", but with rockets.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'VietNam, the fault of France and the US'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Falklands .. jeez Tiggy barrel bottom there '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Both sides are doing shitty shit. Mostly the israelis, but the palestinians aren't without fault.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why's it the bottom of the barrel, Tzad?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'irrelavent to now '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i just asked for the last 10 conflicts :-)'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'What about Kongo? Or Tchad? Or Eritrea? Or Burma?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Internal conflicts, no, Ceriq?'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'If you cherrypick the conflicts in an area of the world you want to look at, ofcourse you'll get a crapton of onesided results.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'With quite a bit of outside support and coercion.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know enough about those conflicts to comment'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is standard practice to war with an adversiary on proxy land .. '
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all i can tell you is that my country wouldn't be harbouring a huge debt and a threat of returning terrorists had it had decent immigration policy and not got involved in really retarded wars abroad'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA would be in much the same boat'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Oh I agree Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least economics are sorting themselves out.... NOT!'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stockmarkets all took a pasting today'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'E B O L A'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if obama closes down gitmo, perhaps we can let the prisoners stay at the extra bedrooms of the whitehouse.....'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would like to know how 2 nurses who supposedly took the normal precautions to protect from contagious patients, managed to get ebola.....'
T3/r7/2014-10-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'boo, the richest person in Alaska is not even a billionaire.....$480 million.'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would appear that FBI chief James Comey is a complete fucking idiot when he said "If Apple and Google won't decrypt phones, we'll force them to", apparently not realising that it is beyond Apple and Google's power to'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have this calibre of people running the FBI, folks, you really should be worried'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'I've missed you, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get a telescopic sight :-)'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the only one I have is attached to a sniper rifle...'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you shouldn't be missing me then'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'honestly though, what between your FBI head, the Senator or COngresswoman that thought gun clips could only be used once, and the other Senator/Congressman that thought that if you had too many people on an island it would sink...'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that i can complain, a recent survey of UK parliamentarians found 71% of them didn't know that banks could create almost unlimited money'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(out of thin air)'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'next you'll be claiming they've done a great job of containing Ebola'
T3/r7/2014-10-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(the best way of which is to allow the people who've treated ebola victims get on a plane whilst infected with ebola)'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'I question the value of this channel when all the good dialog happens on others'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'You call that good dialog?'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so. any communist pigs around? imm channel is screwed'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Aliens left a sandwich on my sidewalk closed barrier, the CIA was watching who would take the bait. I kept my zipper up.'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is considered good dialogue?'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'when people shut up before namecalling:)'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's it all going in the old S of A?'
T3/r7/2014-10-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'Poroshenko has been bough by ussr'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alzar: 'Soldier vs Blacksmith.. which is better?'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the soldier shoots the blacksmith. The blacksmith pounds the soldier into a horseshoe? What's the diff?'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'silly, USSE, not USSR'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'alabama House speaker indicted on 23 felony counts, most dealing with soliciting money from comapanies in return for policitcal favors.'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'in jail awaiting bail hearing, but still technically the house speaker'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'or was, at least'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'might be out now'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Alzar: 'Out of the house or out of jail? :p'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'jail'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '"The Big House"'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'all class B felonies, meaning up to 20 years and $30,000 fines for each count'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '2-20 years'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'nods, released after 1 hour after posting $86,000 bail'
T3/r7/2014-10-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'now the only question is "which country club will he be assigned to" :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'politicians are nasty'
T3/r7/2014-10-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see the Canadians are having a bit of a flap today'
T3/r7/2014-10-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did they ever find the second canadian wind up toy?'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska, the saudi arabia of coal.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska has about 25% of the worlds known coal reserves.  Trillions of tons of beautiful coal that should be mined and shipped to Asia.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'why dont we raise the temps by 10c and just use earth as a greenhouse?'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or 20. even  better'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: '10c is kind of a lot'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'people can live in far south'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'antarctica?'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or north'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'my math was 3- in school. let them scientists figure those out. boring stuff:P'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'what's 3-?'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '"e"'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coal is good.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'barely positive?'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so is natgas'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'coal is terrible'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coal is your friend.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'unless you have to live near it, then it poisons your family'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'we won't even mention how many die extracting coal every year.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the feds built a state of the art coal plant in Alaska that captured the co2 and injected it back into the ground, but the plant cost 4x the cost of a normal state of the art non injecting coal power plant, so it was abandoned.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kinda like that state of the art turkey and chicken waste into oil plant in missouri......the govt spent $100 million on that....it worked quite well, but costs too much for a mere 1000 gallons a day'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'forget about c02. coal production waste is radioactive'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I like the new idea in Alaska though.....using heated water to turn coal into methane at a large coal deposit....the govt gave a private company a $25 million grant to see if it can be done.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'basically to create a man made coal bed methane deposit.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so rather than look for a new source of energy they spend money retreading a 200-yo technology. Maybe we should go back t gas lights.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'maybe some bacteria would like to eat coal? and fart methane'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'sounds like my ex wife'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'heh:)'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coal and natgas is now and the near future....other pie in the sky power ideas are far in the future, if ever.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sure pie in the sky'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even solar is still 4x more expensive than natgas, but it is dropping....only because of federal subsidies'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'by the time the exhaust all the gas, coal, and oil, the earth won't be worth shit to live in.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lets see, the earth was worth living on when the dinosaurs were alive...and the co2 concentration back then was 4x higher than today.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I think you need to be careful about how you define "expensive" here.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'wait, are you saying that humans and dinosaurs co-existed? '
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'one could say that humans and dinosaurs still coexist...all depends on how you're defining dinosaurs'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'true enough :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I think he watched 1000000 BC once to many times, though :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'before you talk about the "expense" or "value" of a mode of electricity production, first do a google image search for "beijing air quality"'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'what beijing air quality?'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'zugzug lana'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'they no longer have air there, though they do have a gas.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you can ask the same question of Mexico City.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it's gotten so bad there you are only allowed to drive your car every other day.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I remember hearing that of mexico city 20 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I was actually just talking with some people the other day about them growing up in pittsburgh during the steel days, and how the street lights would turn on at like 2pm because of the lack of visibility "in the city"'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it hasn't gotten any better, probably because they don't even try.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lets see, the earth was worth living on when the dinosaurs were alive...and the co2 concentration back then was 4x higher than today.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ack'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's gorgeous today, now that industry fled though ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the US tries t clean the air while allowing polluting companies to florish.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'US coal power plants are much cleaner compared to the ones in China.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'and yet'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the operative word is "compared to", so we are not talking absolutes here. Being cleaner doesn't mean being clean.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'there's still no such thing as clean coal'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and most of the coal in Alaska would be shipped to south korea, and japan'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and screw them if they can't take a joke :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, nothing is clean, not even solar (when you include production of the means of production)...'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'japan has a small quake, and go nuts against nuclear power.....'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'no one said the nuclear power, as it is archived now, is the way to go.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pebble bed nuclear reactor design is pretty good.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'hey, they sit there and think deeply how to have efficient engines of destruction and their accompanying delviery system. But when it comes to the general population they just want to burn coal.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hell, even thorium based reactor design would be a step up, and we have much more thorium'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the thorium guys seem deluded'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'NPR-Alaska should be given back to the state.'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is no longer needed as a naval reserve'
T3/r7/2014-10-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'all they need is to put a toll booth at the Bering strait...'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Amtrak employees have been told to report "as suspicious" anyone buying train tickets using cash'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also anyone who buys tickets immediately prior to boarding'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and in other news, a naked connecticut man raped a pit bull in his neighbours garden and then claimed Isis sent him'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'heh, we've gone well beyond eliminating the penny when any physical currency becomes "suspicious"'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn good reason to use it as much as possible'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well tracking's a two way street: I enjoy being able to review my bank statement with most of my expenses listed, and be able to categorize spending without having to manually enter all my transactions'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not capable of doing that with cash?'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'of course - I could write it all down, and manually enter it into excel, quicken, etc.  Or - I could let the bank do it for me, and likely a better job of remembering.'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then your laziness is the banks/governments and their third party partners gain'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a difference here, however'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at the moment you have a choice. Ban cash and that choice is removed'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'laziness is relative - I choose to think of it as prioritizing my time.  The government has little to gain from my day to day spending, the only real negative is that my tax dollars would be paying for that wasted effort, but I've little control over that other than to keep voting for independent parties.'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there needs to be some legal protection for the status of cash to prevent some crazed leftie or controlling nazi corporatist scrapping it'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it wouldn't be a nazi, it'd be the credit card industry looking to strong arm small businesses into adopting merchant services, so they could collect their fees on all the transactions'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people want to use their gay contactless mobile payments, all power to them, just don't ram it down the throats of the rest of us'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's pretty much why they're doing it anyway'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to control the use of money'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'control/track all transactions'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm sure there's a tax collection element to it too.  Both in black market goods transactions, as well as under-the-table payment for labor.'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'very much so'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why governments are labelling cash users as criminals'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much the same as labelling privacy activists as terrorists, smokers as murderers, and stoners and dangerous criminals'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'thing is though, I don't think we'll see cash eliminated any time soon.  People can always find something of value to barter with if the government fails to provide a physical currency.  Its very much in their best interest to make transactions happen in currency - can't tax a trade very easily.'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are already talking about making barter illegal. Believe it already is in some states'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'that'd f up a lot of collectable card games'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shrug'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure the trading card community is likely to be a helpful ally in that fight'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm sure if the law does exist, it's only enforced sparingly'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but sometimes those are the worst kind of laws'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all colour of law here in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'creates an environment where everyone's constantly breaking some law, and enforcement just boils down to whenever a cop feels like being a prick'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or whether your face fits'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of all the things i'd like to roll back here in the UK are arbitrary police powers'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a flight from LA to London was delayed after a passenger on the plane discovered a wifi hotspot named "Al-Qaeda Free Terror Network"'
T3/r7/2014-10-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should have been clear it was a joke from a retard because they'd typed it as "Al_Quida Free Terror Nettwork"'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'internet has ruined the word "social"'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'soh. do you like science?'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'everybody who like science say: "YEAH!"'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'all i hear is "we like quiet"'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'after getting out of college.. i never remember hearing "if you cant find an answer, you'er not looking at the right spot".'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'thats what is missing from the education. '
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's lots missin from education'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basic math, for a start'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basic physics, too'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"not being a retard and screwing over your fellow man" tends to be missed from education these days, too'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'math&physics=science-something? fuck that. what about emotional numbers?'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, there was a big piece on today's news about the 'gender gap' as measured by a bunch of absurd metrics that don't help'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and apparently female soccer players should be payed the same as male soccer players'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'There's no such thing as an emotional number.  There are vampire numbers, and happy numbers.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'in proper science environnment, you can easily define what an "emotional number" is. like -so big. huge. enormous'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'Yeah, but that doesn't have any rigor, so it won't ever be considered a term :P'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you wouldn't get paid for it, though'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'but everyone gets it. thats enough'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'Not enough for math :P  Sorry, but not sorry.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'how big is "so"? in "so sorry"'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'not a quantifiable amount.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'unless you define a well-defined map between a non-quantifiable map and a quantifiable map, it's not measurable.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, Sir Nicholas Winton was given an award by the Czech prime minister for spearheading the rescue of 669 jewish kids from czechoslovakia to England in the second world war'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sir Nicholas celebrated his 105th birthday this year'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'but everyone gets it right away.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: '... You don't understand.  If you're trying to measure (as you said), or define something, you need rigor.  Your rigor?  Is about as much sense as Tigernuts makes.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '"so" - means maximum amount of something considering all the circircumstances'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'Not at all. "So sorry" is usually a large amount of sorry, in which you may experience guilt due to the behaviour.  But it can also be used in a sarcastic method, of "Oh, so sorry :P" in which you have zero sorry.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'So, it's not a rigorous term, not rigor whatsoever.'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor rigour'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal shoots himself in the head. 
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's vote-rigging season in the USA, though a county in Ohio has scrapped their no-refusal DUI checkpoints after a public backlash incited by libertarian media'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the democrats are fleeing, GOP are gloating, and most of the country realise that whoever gets in ain't go to make a damned bit of difference'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's something you don't hear very often: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/27/christian-rapper-jackie-hill-perry-comes-out-as-ex/'
T3/r7/2014-10-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'joy, we're going to have brownouts this winter'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-29823870'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is this feminist misclassifying male attention as harassment?'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'mental illness'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you suggesting feminists are mentally ill?'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'that one is'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there you go'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think most western feminists are mentally ill'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i will bring as proof just about everything they say and do'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, the only valid complaint they have is that women and men with the same level of qualification, same level of experience/time served, doing the same work, should be paid the same'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'everyone is deluded'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, they're not'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yes they are and you're one of them!'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what am i deluded about?'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'you think you have an answer before the question was asked'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'proof?'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless "i don't have an answer" is an answer'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'thats a perfect answer'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'proof given then'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the best one actually. you can go on with your life without committing to absolutely anything'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'but its a solid answer'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then clearly i'm not delusional about that'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. we had a school shooting here, thats why that topic. some delusions end with horror'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'oh. a cool note:) brb:)'
T3/r7/2014-10-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what was the delusional link?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Kaci Hickox should probably just be shot'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'why? Beause she is right.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's about as right as cigarette companies were in the 1930s when they said smoking was good for you'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the point of having a quarantine procedure if you ignore it?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what's the point of having quarantime procedure for someone who isn't contagious.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'erm, that's kinda the point, you quarantine anyone who may have had contact'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't guarantee she's not contagious until the quarantine period is up'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'Why follow a quarantine if you have no reason to. Dude She had an ebola test and it was negative!'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'negative at that point, yes'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's just a left wing loon who thinks the rules don't apply to her. It should be remembered in future'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'And quarantine without reason is unconstitutional!.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not without reason'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'of so gimme 1 valid reason based on scientific fact.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be like someone walking out after prison after 10 days of a 6 month sentence claiming "i did psych tests! i'm not a threat to society!"'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hmmmmm. Did she rob a bank?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, but she's supposed to be in quarantine'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm prepared to accept the constitutionality argument, provided you also scrap all the prohibitive gun laws, search and seizure laws, and arbitrary police powers that also contravene the constitution'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'still give us 1 reason based on facts.  U can't can you? You don't want to debate. you just want to argue.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact is that quarantine is based on possibility of contagion, not on a test taken at the beginning of the period'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can test negative for ebola at exposure point and still develop it'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'and there you go again changinging subjects and spouting junk that is irrelevant to the original debat statement.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you also can't transmit it if you don't have symptoms'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's actually false, Malkar'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'got evidence to back that up?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it can be transmitted through intercourse'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the sympomatic spreading is where it's excreted through sweat or sneezes'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we had rabides quarantine here for dogs for decades, symptomatic or not. Quarantines only work when you're indiscriminate'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a perfect world she's have quarantined in Liberia for the duration of incubation before coming home'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'the virus has been shown to be present in semen for up to 3 months after the infection is over. TRUE  it has NEVER been proven that said virus is alive and/or active. It has also NEVER been proven to be spread by sex. There has not been a single case of ebola attributable to sexual intercourse!'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'if you find one PLEASE let the CDC know about it ASAP.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given that the CDC aren't even capable of equipping medical staff with appropriate gear, I wouldn't hold much confidence in them and am glad I'm not in a country under their control'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'AUstralia has the right idea'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'the CDC is not responsible for equiping medical staff. so why would they bother.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're responsible for the response, so yes, that includes ensuring the correct gear is deployed'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'not.  hospitals, and organizations like MSF are responsible for equiping workers. not the CDC.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the jokers in the UK think an appropriate response is to check the temperature of visitors from the affected countries at (only) 3 points of entry'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The CDC focuses national attention on developing and applying disease control and prevention.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'therefore if the response locally wasn't appropriate, the buck stops with the CDC'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'alternatively, scrap it'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'show how much you don't know about the CDC.  '
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's from their mission statement'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'and? it's also correct. and you're still wrong'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, if the sum total of your output is to say "you are wrong" to everything that is said, regardless of it's correctness then i guess there's nothing more to say :-)'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'the cdc testes equipment, developes guidelins , reccomends procedures, ect.. It directs ememgency response. it hase no power nor control.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you said it. It directs emergency response'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'if the cdc says wear a face mask, it up to the hospital, doctor, or agency to follow it. the cdc can not enforce it.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct, but it still represents a failure of their direction'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'you haven't given a shard of proof to back up your correctness yet.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than you saying it...'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately we don't have any direct flights into the UK from the affected places. Not because we have a competent government, because the only carrier who did the flights (British Airways) had the sense to suspend flights'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'it doesn't, it represents a failuer of others to follow the direction that was given'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'Ahh yer in the UK?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at the very very kindest, you can say that both parties can be blamed'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'the only fault I can give to the CDC is this.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their approach has been feeble'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as was the UK's government'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'it's been shown that the virus can spread without direct contact via droplets in the air. the CDC has ignored this and not adjusted its reccomendation accordingly.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it can persist outside of the body for considerable lengths of time when the temperature drops. Up to 60 days on some surfaces at temperatures between 4 and 7 degrees C'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'EVERYONE's approach has been feeble. yes. agreed'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my stance is that government's absolutely primary purpose is to protect it's people from outside. US has so far flunked it. UK has got away with it despite deliberately bringing in an infected patient completely against normal protocol'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they had closed the borders to these 3 countries THEN brought out this information it would have inspired confidence'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i guess UK can't close the borders because of the EU. and the US can't close their borders because of the porous border with Mexico'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'can't debate that cause I know nothing about UK just as you know next to nothing about the US. '
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately i know more about the US than most Americans'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK's approach has been nice and quiet - we don't have Fox and CNN scaremongering'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is more about luck than judgement - we have had no cases'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aside from the tone, the advice and border steps are broadly similar'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'thats very freaky:p'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's that?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'thomas duncan casued the scare in the US. so you have a point there. and about media also.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and some siginificant sloppiness caused another 2 cases that we know about'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'yes, but the question is who to credit for the sloppiness.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just about everyone involved'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'that we know about...  both nurses have been released and all people on watch lists have cleard the incubation perios so neither spread the disease.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'further'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'can't blame the nurses for something they weren't trained for.  I'd blame the cdc for improper reccomendations ( as explained earlier), and the hospital for not following/training it's employees'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can blame a doctor fresh back with symptoms for blondely stumbling around in public'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that nurse should just shut up and stay home for the remainder of the 3 weeks she's been asked to do, if for no other reason than to calm the nerves of her neighbours and end the media circus'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'not up to date on those details. last I head that didn't happen. he went bowling, developed a fever next day, and immediatly reported it. but that is old info.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, if you're back from an ebola zone having had contact, you should be quarantined, and if nobody has directly ordered you to do it, you really ought to be self-quarantining'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially if you're an effing ebola doctor'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'the nurse is right. there's no valid reason other than unjustified fear for her to be quarentined.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were using raw science then you wouldn't be having a war against drugs or banning guns'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'quit changine the subject and making invalid comparisons. ebols has nothing to do with drugs or guns. those are entierly different subjects.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are different subject where the science is ignored in favour of emotive political agendas'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's entirely relevent'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'not.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it is'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'there may be similarities, but that doesn't make it relevent.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'approach makes it entirely relevent. When you say one thing and do another it makes you a hypocrit'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being a hypocrit in government gives you a serious credibility issue. How credible is your government? THe polls suggest it isn't at all. UK parliament likewise'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'ok. explain to me how the war on drugs, or gunrunning is relevant to a nurse being quarrentined without reason?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well for a start, she's not being quarantined without reason, she's being quarantined with poor reason'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she's being quarantined as a matter of policy/process irrespective of the scientific evidence'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the war on drugs persists despite all the scientific evidence showing that it's counterproductive'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'she's being quarentined out of fear. there is NO VALID reason for her quarentine.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banning guns seems to be a thing for liberals despite it's unconstitutionalness and the evidence showing that it leads to more crime'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an irrational fear'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'it is. '
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a finite chance that she has ebola, a chance that diminishes with time'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'and thus concludes our debate on ebola.  I think we are at an impasse'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'part of the publicly facing argument on the war on drugs is likewise to do with an irrational fear. The reality behind it is it's about money and control, but that's for another time'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'agree malkar'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'besides I gotta cp to finish :)'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically the empasse is you believe every case should be treated seperately, i believe everyone coming in from affected areas should be treated the same'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your approach will work provided there remains a tiny number of people coming back'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'my cp mob requires me to do the AQ :('
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'cp fail.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'it may happen, but not giving up yet.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'tiger, the number will remain small. the exception is the military, which is a different subject, and they have a mandantory 21 day quarrentine for everyone in an infected areas wether they had contact or nat. Which I can agree with since they are military, not general citizens.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doctors aren't general citizens'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doctors and nurses returning should be subject to the same controls'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'Doctors don't sign a contract volentarily giving up part of thier right. military does.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not really very relevent, they're both essentially part of the same action'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'so because I'm a soldier and sign a contract giving up part of my constitutional rights, everyone loses the rights I gave up?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not everyone, just everyone going out to combat it. THink of the doctors and nurses who go out there as being on secondment to the army'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'that's just crazy on soooo many levels'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no crazier than telling the military that they're subject to quarantine while doctors and nurses who are out there for the same reason, who are more exposed and at higher risk should not be'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'debate the military freely gave up thier civil right. thay HAVE to obey orders. the medical people didn't'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they didn't give it up in a vacuum, it has context, and within this context there is reason for it. You don't quarantine the military because they gave up their rights, you quarantine them because they've been in contact with ebola and it's the safest thing to do for all involved'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'no you quarentine them 1. because you can. 2. to be ultra cautios, and 3, because they are still fed, paid, clothed,, have free heath care, and are confined to a base not a room.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can do all those things for the doctors and nurses. Shit, put them up in a 6 star hotel for their quarantine and pamper the shit out of them on paid leave if you need to - they deserve it'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'I'd go for that. Kacy wat put in a tent tho. no shower no tv, no ac, nothing but a port-a-potty'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's her imprisoners fault, what on earth were they thinking?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you make quarantine feel like prison then the response that she had isn't unexpected'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'which is why she's suing.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'general incompetence from those in charge... again?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'either way its a problem for the courts to decide. us arguing about it means little other than our own understanding and learning from others views.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the usual conclusions: Governments are absolutely shit at just about everything'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'that reminds me of a line from the movie "Master and Commander". Subject for future debate.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'although, may I politely reccomend that you google, rules of debate'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i won't google anything on principle, though i might search engine'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the meantime, http://www.politicalcompass.org/'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'aight. so search engin rules of debate :) and in fairness, I'll look at your likn also.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'south park. should it be banned? and sued?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Corrugated Korridel: 'No.  No.  Satire is a valid form of comedy, and political discourse.  QED.'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i say just this one thing: minors! ! !'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Meraeador: 'I watched South Park when I was ~10 and I think it positively influenced my development'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'anyone noticed it?'
T3/r7/2014-10-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'Butters touching that gooey spot.. Cartman as a bitch.. Kyle. That poor jew stitched between one asian and that lady.. All underage. And no lawsuits. In USA? how can that be possible?'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The deficit this year as a % of the US economy is down to 2.8%.....down from 9.8% in 2009....the economy is growing at a nice clip.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I doubt it will continue though, since more republicans are being elected, and republicans of late are mostly closet spenders, and deficits go up during their control.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The gas tax needs to go up......1 cent per year for the next 10 years.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'in which country?'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US, we have a really low federal gas tax, and the fund that pays for roads and bridges is broke.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'the fund whould be fine if Obama would quit spending maney we don't have.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, the gas tax funds roads and transportation infrastructure only.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the president has no control over how surplus funds were spent.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but now highway funding via the transportation bill outspends the amount of money that is raised each year from the federal gas tax.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which means there are over 10,000 bridges in the US that are old and falling apart.....'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'states barely have enough money from the gas taxes to cover 'patching' those bridges.....and at least 500 of them need to be replaced before accidents occur.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'so why don't the states that need it increase thier gas tax instead os increasing it for the whole country?'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Because state gas taxes pay for new projects, the federal gas tax is used to maintain bridges and the national road system.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'state gas taxes also pay for the state roads.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'each state gets a block grant from the federal gas tax fund to maintain federal roads and bridges based on population growth and use of the federal roads.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the federal gas tax hasnt been raised in a very long time.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if it was tied to inflation it would be at least 10 cents higher than it is now.'
T3/r7/2014-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ouch, in 1976, Apple cofounder ron wayne sold his 10% share of the company back to Apple for $800.....today that share would be worth $60 billion.'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh, another weekend without nuclear war starting. Boring!'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'be happy with ebola Tiggy :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ebola sucks'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all ebola does is wipe out a few poor black folks who didn't deserve it. What you want is a nice set of nuclear strikes to destroy vast swathes of bottom and top feeders, like the entire population of London and Washington DC'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and the entire middle east, israel, and any other large population centres)'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hands up who didn't know Tim Cook was gay'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apple products have been pretty suspect for a decade'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'It would take all 139 million working Americans working non-stop for 45 years just to cover their government's current unfunded liabilities'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'equates to 6.25 billion man-years of work'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooh, america votes this week'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, 6 police turned up to arrest a 90yr old man and his volunteers for feeding the homeless'
T3/r7/2014-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Murica!"'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'incoming head of GCHQ (UK) went on a news discussion show last night and said that Facebook and Google were to blame for Islamic terrorism, and Google and Apple encrypting their data as standard was playing into their hands. The authorities must have the power to spy on you!'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'why not use an old mud game for terrorist activities? they would never be found out lol'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mud traffic is unencrypted and therefore subject to threat scoring like anything else'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'big metadata debate in Aust atm too Tiggy .. the man wants our data in the name of freedom .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably your job to tell him to fuck off and die, then'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'nah I feed em lolcats and contact my IS buddies on MUD .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they want terrorists, give them Hilary Clinton and George Soros's office number'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'given the paradigm  of terrorism being the poor mans war and how well funded IS is compared to the US .. you may have something there Tiggy :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'So it seems the last of the 3 founders of Piratebay is now in custody'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'they were all sentenced to a year in prison a while back'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'well, for Piratebay, at least.  One of them got like 3 or 4 years for other hacking, IIRC.'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'thank god the servers are safe'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'where would i get a free copy of zmud then?'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'lol jk'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'zmud 3.62 IS free'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mael: 'from zuggsoft, it's free for 30 days :p'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'i need more than 30 days'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fanil: 'zmud 3.62 IS free. forever. Zugg released it to public domain.'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Neji was arrested by boarder police in Thailand, and Sweden <-> Thailand has no extradition treaty. So let's see what happens.'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Neij*'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Pretty sure they're turning him over'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'They even took a big photo op with a bunch of officials and stuff to say "Hey look, we caught him!"'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Don't see why they'd do that if they weren't gonna co-operate with prosecutors'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'however he passed over the border between Laos and Thailand 27 times this the warrant for his arrest was sent to Interpol'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'idiot'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'err, since the*'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'also i got the last verion of vmud the 7.21'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'zmud*'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'zmud don't have no gmcp though'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'He's got a resort house on an island in Thailand.  'tis why he was going there so much'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'he needs to stay there and i mean to say idiots as in the border guards'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'ah, gotcha'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'So like, is it a crime to evade arrest?'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'As in, will his sentence now be longer than the original 1 year?'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'in Sweden it's not even a crime to escape from prison'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'so no, most likely not'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tantravect: 'in most countrys its not illegal to escape, even mexico'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'alright'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whois neij?'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'on eof the founders of Piratebay'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's generally illegal to abscond or evade law enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wish him well, fuck the riaa'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when they jail the bankers that half bankrupt the world and jail the corrupt politicians getting fat off our slavery, then they can deal with people for pirating their stupid fucking movies, most of which are shit anywy'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'it seems it was movie companies, not music ones, that prompted this latest attempt at his arrest'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they put out movies that weren't utter pap, and cinemas didn't charge $15 to see them, maybe people would go more often'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'maybe you mean the mpaa :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'if they ship him back to Sweden he'll spend the winter in a nice comfortable jail, and then he'll be a free man in the spring.'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whoever'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same people who shut down your youtube account if you have so much as 30 seconds of a copyright song or movie as part of a production, yet happily allow ISIS and other governmental propaganda'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think movie producers are entitled to create whatever they want and charge whatever they want'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said they weren't'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you seem to be upset about people enforcing their copyright'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm upset at the hypocratic and uneven way that laws are enforced'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the youtube case, it's not against the law to use clips of copyright material in many jurisdictions'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the piratebay case, i was bemoaning the fact they let peopel bankrupt thec ountry and get away with it, even rewarding them, yet chase piratebay to the ends of the earth at huge cost'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it's interesting to see how creative the prosecutors were when trying to convict the TPB people. Normally, for the severity of the crime, they'd have closed down the investigation considering how difficult it was to tie them to the crime.'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're pretty much in the "we'll make and bend law as we go along" camp with TPB prosecution'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'what do you mean?'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i mean using laws not used for the purpose'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'setting precedents'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same way they get cops to harass people filming them by intimidation and the arrest them for resisting arrest'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I see'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but it's always been known that it's a bad idea to mess with those that have lots of money'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's that voting coming on?'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wp6lUUnkJw'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'copied this before watdching. enjoy:)'
T3/r7/2014-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'well that's it.. the major networks are calling the senate to the gop'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt the GOP win in the Senate came as a shock to anyone'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not to anyone following the pre-election polling, at least'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno what the nazicrats were expecting, really'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt anything will change much, though i'd love to see Obola veto the "audit the fed" bill'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(which he'll have to because the fed will tell him if he lets the fed be audited, markets will crash)'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk government is putting out some hilarious propaganda in light of google and apple encrypting phones by default'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'If you don't have anything to hide, you won't mind your friendly neighborhood government agent peeking in!'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can fuck off'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that it's relevent, they can access your data through apple or google very easily anyway, serverside - there's agreements in place for it, just it needs a warrant'
T3/r7/2014-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know they just want to be lazy and have unconstrained access without a warrant'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'Randy Marsh. cool or lame?'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'More people 85 years or older voted than 25 years and under in the midterm elections'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'despite being outnumbered 7 to 1'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'that's kind of sad'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: '(or happy, if you're an old person)'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bode: 'show you who to market to.'
T3/r7/2014-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bode: 'or who not to...'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people under 25yr old shouldn't vote, they're too stupid'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you could say that for people over 25 too :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'under 25s are naive. Based on recent polls of under 25s at university we'd have post-birth abortions, mandatory retirements at 55, constant government surveillance'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd rather nobody except me was allowed to vote'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'failing that, we really need to be looking at a written constitution that stops stupid/naive/greedy people treading on the freedoms of others, then it wouldn't matter so much that dumb people vote'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest news is 32 tanks, 16 howitzers, ammo trucks and troops have crossed from Russia into Eastern Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sock it to the fascists, Putin!'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'really that is part of russia anyhow'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole situation there is like watching two bullies fight over a twinky'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'expensive twinky'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as usual, establishment powers fighting, the little people suffer'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an equivalent situation would be russia spending billions of dollars to provoke a pro-russia revolution in Canada, with British Columbia turning around and saying "fuck that, we're declaring independence", backed with suspiciously army-like 'volunteers' from the US military'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who's at fault?'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'quebec'
T3/r7/2014-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's a given'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are democrats so intent on ending immigration controls? Immigration has totally fucked over the UK, can't anyone there learn the lesson?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they want to end controls so it's easier for the zombie apocalypse to spread.  Them zombies move so slowly as it is, they don't need bureaucracy getting in their way.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, 95% of americans are the result of being able to immigrate to america...they're probably trying to learn from that lesson'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that lesson is about 300 years out of day'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'date*'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most are only second or third generation'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK you've seen a population explosion of foreigners, pushing down of wages and conditions, a huge hike in living costs and a collapse of public infrastructure. All a result of, or exacerbated by immigration'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like mass immigration in the USA will hit wages and tip political balance of power. Isn't terribly green, either'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'depends on what you mean by "green"'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'england has a pop density of a bit over 1000 per square mile...the US has a pop density just under 90 per square mile...'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not exactly in anywhere near the same situation to "learn the lesson"'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually immigration to the US is extremely green'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's great, but the US government has also placed 90% of the US landmass beyond further human habitation, so though that -particular- aspect is down the road, the rest is nonetheless true'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because all of those people are coming from much-less-green countries, so their existence becomes greener by coming here'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't come from much-less-green countries'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the come mostly from much-more-green countries'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in terms of their own ues'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'use'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'dunno what immigrants you're talking about, but that's nowhere near true of the ones here'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rumour has it that mass immigration into the US comes from central america'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here ,most of our immigrants are from eastern europe and the middle east'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporations here deliberately bring over cheap immigrant labour to reduce their wage bill. It not only suppresses wages here but keeps unemployment high'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on top of everything else'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had appropriate immigration controls been in force, if there were poorly paid jobs that nobody wanted, the employers would raise the renumeration until they were attracting people'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yes, immigration here added 7mil population in 10 years, we were already way overcowded'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and then there would be unemployment because the employers would simply no longer be employers'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would they simply no longer be employers? didn't they want to make a profit?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that profit disappears when they raise renumeration'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then they raise the price'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same argument you're using is the same argument they're using to justify the use of tax payers money to subsidise global corporations paying shitty wages here, you realise'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then they sell less, and profit still disappears'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's an argument for a reason'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so they leave the market and someone else comes in'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either there is a demand at a price or there isn't'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'exactly...there's demand at the price that they're charging'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so to meet that price, they pay what they pay'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'or they pay what they pay somewhere else and you still have high unemployment'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise that people have run the numbers - if apple were to ensure all their chinese workers were paid the US minimum wage, it would raise the price of an iPhone by less than $5 a unit'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an argument that holds any water'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'apple has no chinese workers'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and they lied when they ran the numbers'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'through it's subcontractors it does'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so all dell employees work for me because I buy dell stuff?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but if dell has a factory dedicate to only producing your products, then they're still morally your responsibility'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the same way that clothing chains are morally responsible for not using sweatshop labour when they contract out manufacuring'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like to see Apple manufacture iphones in the US'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I wouldn't'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but mostly i'd like proper border controls and a points-based approach to immigration to stop the movement of unskilled labour and help reduce the country's population'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I like cheap unskilled labor :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you're a tyrant'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unskilled labor isn't a threat to skilled people'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure it is'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might not be competing for employment, but they're competing for resources'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't compete for resources, I pay for them'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK you compete for resources, whether that's somewhere to live, access to services, etc'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and cheap unskilled labor can't pay as much for resources as I can'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can here'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they will in the US before much longer if you follow the same model'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then your definition of cheap immigrant labor is wrong'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your understanding of the UK's tax/welfare system is the issue'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax money subsidises cheap labour'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that tax money comes mostly from skilled labour'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the net result is that people on unskilled low paid jobs have similar disposable income to those half way up the income scale. added to which the absurd cost of housing and energy means you have to be in the top 20% of earners to escape the trap'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they only have "similar disposable income" because those halfway up the scale choose to dispose of more of their income than they should'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, again, you're wrong. The way tax/welfare system works, as soon as you go up the income scale, those same welfare/rebates drop off. THose people halfway up the scale have less income because they don't have access to the same rebates/welfare as those underneath them'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and you're full of shit with how much that is making up for'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's utterly true. below a certain amount you get your rent paid for, you get your local taxes paid'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is where socialism takes you'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, "below a certain amount"...and only rent in low-rent'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rent is high here, period, there is no low-rent'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not handing you $50k in disposable income'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they certainly is low-rent'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you had $50k dispoasble income you'd be in the top 20%'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's higher than here, but it's hella lot lower than other places there'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rent a 1 bed apartment in London you're looking at $2000 a month'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'rent a 1-bed apartment in much of manhattan and you're looking at the same'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'now go rent one in bronx instead'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't care where it is, they'll give you the rent for where you live'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, there's high and there's low, in both countries'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only places here which have low rent, also have no jobs'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you live low-rent but work somewhere high-rent...most people who work in manhattan don't live anywhere in NYC'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'happens all over the globe'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there isn't a sudden divide like NYC'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sorry, but bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go look it up'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because you're wrong doesn't mean you can just pretend you're right :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"i don't want to believe it, therefore it's bullshit"!'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there have been plenty of books written about the subject...just because you refuse to pay attention to your own shit and wanna cry poor me rather than fix yourself doesn't make you right'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the books apply to the places they're written about'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, like london'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole of the south east of the UK suffers high rental prices'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's very well documented'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cleff: 'and btw most people who work in Manhattan live in NYC. NYC is not just Manhattan'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'high is relative'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'NYC is not just manhattan, but most commute from the tri-state area'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no "cheap" part of London. You have to go 200 miles west to get down to the national average in terms of housing cost'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'NJ transit's northeast corridor is full of them'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there is cheap part of london...cheap part of london doesn't mean down to the national average, it simply means the cheap part of london'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'stop trying to compare parts of london to the rest of the U'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'stop trying to compare parts of london to the rest of the UK'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that cheap part of london is sufficiently expensive that it excludes people living there who aren't on welfare or in the top 20%'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a reason why London is 55% ethnic'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cleff: 'from what I see, most people who work in Manhattan live in Brooklyn or Queens. Some are from NJ/Westchester/Suffolk, but they are 30-40% combined'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most urban areas are...'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they were subject to the same laws the rest of us have to live under, they wouldn't actually be able to survive'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they weren't here at all, employers would pay more to hire locally'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uncontrolled immigration is a race to bottom, and there plenty of books about that too'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they are subject to the same laws that you live under'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they're not'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the immigrants have a different welfare scale than you do? they get to carry guns? they get a magical card to hand to a traffic officer? which laws exactly don't apply to them?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they tend to work cash in hand jobs or abuse self-employment law to bypass employment tax, they live in illegal multiple-occupancy residences, bed-stacking. Terrible conditions that you wouldn't keep your dog in'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you're expecting everyone should have to do that, so that just makes you the shit, right?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm expecting that everyone has an equal opportunity to do that'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just so you can shave a few $$ off your labour bill?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'may your business go bust and your legs fall off :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're stating that they're not subject to the same rules, but you then "back that up" by stating that you don't want to live under their conditions...sorry, but "I don't want to do that" isn't the same as "they're not subject to the same as me"'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't live under the same rules or the same conditions, the two are no mutually exclusive'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you haven't come up with any rules that are different...you've said that they're skirting rules...that's not the same as the rules not applying, and it's not a difference in situation between "you" and "them"'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they live in illegal accommodation, dodge taxes'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you have the same opportunities that they do'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have the same opportunities to break the law that they do?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's reassuring'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'absolutely, it should be'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it means that everything is "fair" between you and them :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hardly'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'absolutely, and by definition'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why was this their fault when it's actually yours?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not the one whining that other people are getting a leg up...do what it takes to get your own...they're willing to'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it wasn't for your greed in wanting to make more money by not paying people properly, demanding people live in poverty so you've got more disposable income, then there wouldn't be the antaagonism between the two classes'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it hasn't gone completely unnoticed by the population at large, we have pitchforks are do intend sharpening them'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you do that...employers will get workers willing to do the work elsewhere :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the employers will be dead'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'UKers with pitchforks are what has ruined your economy as it is'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, it was greedy shisters that sold us out with globalism'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody has wanted to touch your shit since the punk days'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're the only country with viable space-going engines that don't blow up'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we invented genitics, the Internet, and modern computers'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're falling, but the US is falling much faster'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and let's be honest here, you'll get nuked before we do'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, other than not having invented any of those things, you're entirely right!'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we did, and there are books abou tit'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, there's also books that say that al gore invented the internet, but that's not correct eitehr'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want immigration, you need a flat tax regime and little/no welfare. of more benefit would be to ensure that you only allow immigration from similar economies'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sir Tim Berners-Lee'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, he didn't invent the internet...'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'world wide web'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which isn't the Internet...I've been on the Internet since before his invention'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he didn't even invent hypertext which is the basis of his www'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'to many kiddies, yes, the web is "the internet"...note that you playing Aard is you using The Internet stuff which existed before his great invention...'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how'd the election turn out for you guys?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'fine by me'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no change?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from here it looks like some dysfuncitonal members have been replaced with other dysfunctional members in a dysfunctional mess that needs to be replaced entirely'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'didn't expect too much change this election'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you haven't got it, neocons out, neocons in'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you still have LIndsey Graham, John McCain, Harry Reid, and John Kerry in positions of power, so you can be guaranteed that more pointless wars will continue'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently a british born man (not british at all) who went to fight with ISIS in Syria blew himself up in a suicide attack. i guess we should really be sending ISIS a thankyou card'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'c'mon, Kabir was totally from Derby'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2nd generation immigrant'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'over a year in jail for distributing pamphlets, that's harsh man'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just another example of the unplanned externalities of unrestricted immigration from dissimilar economies and cultures'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to people like him, all of us have our freedoms and liberties curtailed'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to you and your unrestricted immigration'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not that gay bashing needs immigration to happen'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're welcome :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, we're quite capable of bashing our own gays'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Catalonia went to the polls in a referendum about independence that has already been quashed/ruled illegal by Spain'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"The American education system is inherently racist and oppresive. Students of color only ac out because they are victims of that system". What do you think of that statement?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a convenient excuse'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it worthy of $63m of tax money spent promoting it?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I live in a school district which is mostly black and hispanic, with some good sections and some really-ghetto sections...our students who want to do well in school do well in school...you get out what you put in'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i get the impression the problems in the black community is more about poverty, culture, and lack of decent role models'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which makes it very little different to poor white communities, or as they are in UK, "poor communities"'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our slavery continues based on class rather than race'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'spoken like someone who doesn't understand what slavery is...'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a book about that'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'many of them'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where i live we are property of the state, we are therefore slaves'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost laughs out loud at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, you clearly don't understand what slavery/property is...'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why don't you enlighten us'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'he understands just fine, Abelinc'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'he justs "interprets" stuff to suit his own agenda'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then he's just lying'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone on the planet does that< Vost'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are books about it'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'see what I mean, Abelinc?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you aware of the concept of indentured servitude?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't have much problems with classifying typical schooling systems as oppressive'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oppressive to black people?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I am aware of the concept of indentured servitude...while it is not slavery, it's certainly not fun...but it's also not something that you're under'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Whether there is any inherent racism, depends on your definition of racism. There are certainly correlations between ethnicity and educational outcomes.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I meant oppressive for human beings in general :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do people get treated differently in the school system as a result of race?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Insofar as racial genetic differences affect educational performance, but then it's not really because of race anymore.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you can't really bring outcomes into it'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You can, as a sort of reality check, but you'd better be very careful with interpretations.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might as well claim schools discriminate against stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I'd more likely say the opposite'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd agree with you, abe, but then so does adult life'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Again indirectly, since intelligence affects performance in schools :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm not sure who suffers most from typical schools.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, bright kids suffer worst'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the loony left banned selection on ability, then the loony right banned streaming'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'either end...it's always easier being middle-of-the-road'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I might opine that boys suffer more than girls in Norwegian schools.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's different about Norwegian schools?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not much, I think'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'feminist system, like the rest of society :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I loved the line in Mars Attacks, when the black general's about to be the ambassador to the aliens and said: But didn't I always tell you honey, if I just stayed in place and never spoke up, good things are bound to happen.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feminists are awesome'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'for a very peculiar value of "awesome", perhaps'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, all depends on which definition of feminism is being used'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i just find them funny'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm fine with first generation/wave/equal rights feminism'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and I suppose with weak form aa'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they amuse me in the same way as many environmentalists do'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think the common thread is hypocrisy'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the rest is largely PC, imo'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's 95% of feminists, Tinada, imo'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'lamentably'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I was at an Eagle Scout ceremony recently, where the parents were at the podium for a bit, and when they left to return to their seats, the father walked first...after the ceremony, the grandfather verbally bitchslapped him for "leading his wife" rather than escorting her'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'grandfather was right'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Tigernuts ponderingly.
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have problems conjuring up a convincing scenario in which the grandfather's action is right.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'old-school chivalry (which of course is shunned by feminazis ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about chivalry/politeness'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I was talking about the grandfather, not the father..'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'basically, your target is in a room where all of the ghoulies go during the day...when it's night, they return to their places in the graveyard'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's your issue with it, Tinada?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It seems counterproductive.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'counterproductive to what?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and misplaced'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as counterproductive as holding open a door, I guess'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of all the people to school you on etiquette, aren't your parents probably the best placed?'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If I see you doing something wrong it had better be seriously wrong for me to not wait until the two of us are alone before I criticize you.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the ceremony was over'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have some sympathy with that, Tinada, though sometimes a public dressing down reinforced it'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have yet to see that work with adults, I think.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because adults tend to be petulent'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it wasn't like he shouted it in front of everyone in attendance, I just happened to be eating at the same table in conversation with the family'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'central to the failure of feminism is that women give birth to and nurse young and men throughout history and evolution tended to provide and protect them'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chivaly is just an extension of that into culture'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feminists, ultimately, are just women-haters'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Insofar as feminism fails, it is probably because it ignores too much of reality, particularly the biological basis for sex/gender and consequent differenct preferences and choices.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of what is wrong with the modern world is due to ignoring reality'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't see many feminists on here these days, there once was one, but was from Singapore, so couldn't really be taken seriously'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I notice a RL shortage of people who self-define as feminists, but then again I live in a country where women make more money than men, after all possible statistical adjustments.'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also post-whatever constructivist pc reality rejection seems to have peaked'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trouble is when you get feminists in charge of things'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there's plenty of them in UK politics and positions of power'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, 90lbs of cocaine seized from a cargo ship belonging to a company owned Mitch McConnells extended family'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really a surprise that politicians have their hands in dubious pies'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ilthik: 'surprising its only 90 lb. you could fit much more into a cargo ship'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of em are on the tap. News story today showed Tony Blair being paid 41k a month by a Saudi oil company'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do like the concept David Eddings brought up in a fantasy fiction book where an Island's governance was such that when you became president, your entire wealth was subsumed by the state. If the state made a profit, you made a profit, if the state run up debts, they were your debts'
T3/r7/2014-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that national governments shuld have teh same policy with ALL of their national politicians'
T3/r7/2014-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'recovering from the NHS claims is a virus, but with the added benefit of just about every muscle in my body acting like it's been pulled'
T3/r7/2014-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2014-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama looking to regulate broadband like a utility. hrmmmm'
T3/r7/2014-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ted Cruz is coming down against it and i'm wondering if he's got the wrong end of the stick, or whether it contains stuff i haven't been told'
T3/r7/2014-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps someone with more knowledge can enlighten me'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no fair, you lot are gettin gsnow'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Mexico is descending into Anarchy'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty good excuse for Obama to invade'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if jesus was excluded and forgotten, what would be the best way to count yesr?'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'years*'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'cant set the big bang as the starting point - it would be inaccurate, try as you may. and the number would be too big'
T3/r7/2014-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'so, what would be the worthy event to start counting years from?'
T3/r7/2014-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no best way, pick a starting point'
T3/r7/2014-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Microsoft patches a 19yr old bug in their SSL implementation, of course, if you run Windows Vista, XP or older you're pretty much fucked'
T3/r7/2014-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQzkMoEGDGE'
T3/r7/2014-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at all those racists accusing Bill Cosby of rape'
T3/r7/2014-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU is considering imposing sanctions on Israel. That'd be the day'
T3/r7/2014-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about time someone did something about that particular terrorist state'
T3/r7/2014-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/keuunno   http://tinyurl.com/l3wokmw    I think your education system might have been usurped to be a propaganda vehicle....'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, interesting food related article: http://naturalsociety.com/big-mayo-co-unilever-sues-vegan-mayonnaise-maker-market-share/'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Why does it seem that US Education is basically the blind politicans, who never taught a day, listens to blind experts, who never taught low level students and were in upper level courses while not mixing with lower level students, telling everyone else in education that they should make everyone go to college? '
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because public school is a propaganda machine used to brainwash kids'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'That would be English, History, and possibly science classes.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'public school is to keep the children from the drugs. '
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'away*'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Inner city schools could have more drug use than the streets around the possibly.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't see the public school systems have anything to do with drugs'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just really bad teaching'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I wonder what the rate for prescription drugs given to students in more affluent schools is.  That would be high drug use, ADD/ADHD medication or other medication to control their child.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely they're medicating kids because the doctors want to make money, the parents are gullible, and the teachers stupid'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tigernuts: I disagree. Public Education's issue is parents dumping their child because several of them do not have an education themselves. I have some students that they are the first in their families to graduate from high school.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such people shouldn't be having kids'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's your root problem'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'The bigger issues it not teachers, it is the lack of parenting and students taking responsibility for their education. You get what you put into any school educationally wise.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't help when you've got politicians usurping the education system for political means of control'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ultimately you need to use culture and social propaganda to make it seriously fucking uncool to have kids'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'George Bush did that in 2001/2 when he said you are not Patriotic if you do not vote for No Child Left Behind.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps use a bit of a stick by making it a felony to not support your kids financially if you're not present'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well we all know GWB was a terrorist'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'So was Nelson Mandella.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'difference being that Mandela knew he was a terrorist'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Regan was a terrorist'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reagan wasn't a terrorist, but he was an invader of foreign countries'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was good until he got shot'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Regan was a puppet of Corperate America,'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The school system is a bit like nutrition, we're making comparisons within fundamentally sick populations, and failing to notice this :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much, though he did start off saying the right things'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Goldwater was ok.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Well, the peanut man did not have a clue what to do.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you aren't going to fix public education without dealing with a whole bunch of other stuff first'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess the best start is to kick the feds out of having anything to do with it'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The school system was historically designed to limit people's development and standardize them (at least the great masses), the system is based around mechanisms which generate these effects, and we can in fact observe end products of schooling consistent with this.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tinada: Pretty much.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In other words, schools are working as intended, and adding more schooling/homework/whatever will make the system work even better.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so pretty much either don't send your kids to public school, or at the very least, have massive personal oversight of what they do and be prepared to undo/correct the bad shit'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'getting rid of centralised control would at least allow state-level decent people to take it over where there is the effort made'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without that freedom you're screwed'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feds were not confered that power under the constitution, so it should be handed back, really'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I think that if parents could actually do some of the work their kids brought home, then students would be able to be more successful. However, most parents with low socio-economic situations were born into this and that is what they know and do not know better.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I realize that dismantling the existing system would be..hard. My halfway proposal is to eliminate non-essential subjects, leaving you with 1-2 languages and maths until you reach senior high, and do intensive one-on-one teaching when kids are learning to read.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should just euthenise all the stupid people?'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'that is part of the problem Turie.  Our local school is pretty good if you are motivated.  For the unmotivated it is hard to get them to do well.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'The more interesting thing is when the Feds tagged Common Core as being a part of getting Fed Money. They basically broke the law.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'all the time left over from eliminating pointless stuff should be spent studying/training something reasonably sensible that the kids are interested in'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basic numeracy would help'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'A high school diploma is basically a Liberal Arts Degree in College.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Considering how amazingly little you are supposed to learn during those years, it should be hard to go wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and a liberal arts degree is the same as a 19th century middle school exam? :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I think that school systems should team up with companies, other school systems, and pool funding to create schools that are designed toward career ready fields.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Tinada: Pretty much.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking from my own country, we just need to reintroduce grammar schools (selection on capability) make student loans inflation-linked, not for profit, and offer free tuition for degrees that actually have a use (science, engineering)'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for you guys, you really badly need to take the politics out of our school system'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'THe US's biggest issue is that we test everyone from lowest to highest with the NAEP test. Most other countries do not do that.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not an issue :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we had no standardised yearly testing at all until quite recently'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Most people do not fully grasp Algebra till they are 20-25. We push it down 12-18 year olds throats for no purpose.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'algebra is something you start teaching in yr8-9, it's a vital part of maths and problem solving'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty vital in just about any form of rational debate'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I don't think something magically happens when you turn 20 that lets you understand algebra, I did't have too much trouble grasping it in 8th grade.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I agree. I am talking about the more abstract concepts like imaginary numbers to student who will never use it.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'imaginary numbers are not basic algebra (not algebra at all, technicall)'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not necessary for high school students not taking science'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basic alegebra and arithmetic are used every day in normal life'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'It is mandated by Common Core and my state as a requirement.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well common core is something you should get rid of'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I would like to see a personal finance/business math classes.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can't teach that, Turie, else the kids would realise that their government is perpetually bending them over the desk and taking them roughly up the butthole'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Those are things students need to know. How do you invest wisely in the stock market, commodities, and so on.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just how to run your own personal finance would be a start'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Credit Card debt would be a nice eye opener.'
T3/r7/2014-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and how inflation has been manipulated more than once in order to make it appear lower'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since the overthrow of the Ukrainian government, their gold reserves have almost entirely disappeared. Where do you think they went and why?'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'janukovich didn't leave with his hands in his pockets. and probably a few others'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, it disappeared after that'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there have been reports of it being stuck on american military planes and shipped out, but the central bank weren't given any information'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at this point it looks more like some secret deal has been done, maybe a trade of gold for liquidity'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. you know. how is it even possible to figure what theory might be true? i mean, internet is the worst source of any kind.'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the absolute worst'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one things for certain, Ukrainians ought to be pissy about it'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-18/ukraine-admits-its-gold-gone'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, since they won't audit the fed, i think the USA figure is probably fiction, too'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'which is better. to drink constantly but not too much or less frequently but a LOT in those occasions. '
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'cuz ads say nothing informative..:( and i really like to drinlk'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best for you is to drink in moderation and not frequently'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't listen to ads, you apply science, or failing that, common sense'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they do the tests and claim something but i have not seen the real measurment of the damage. but people like alcohol. many people. how much damage 1.5%o will do? any idea? absolutely none.'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'do they have real racism in science? like "geology not being a real science"?'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'and vet's not being real doctors?'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'just curios. don't really care..'
T3/r7/2014-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'is it real or just fun?'
T3/r7/2014-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woohoo, WTG Alaska....voting in an independant/democrat party as governor/lt. governor, and booting out the neocon that a former big oil lobbyist'
T3/r7/2014-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'this channel has been too quiet recently. where is tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2014-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'what happens when plague and ebola have a baby?'
T3/r7/2014-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'plagola'
T3/r7/2014-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ebol and plague have a baby? Gives you Kim Kardashian'
T3/r7/2014-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK soccer team just let us down. They should be executed for treason'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'http://www.iflscience.com/technology/journal-accepts-paper-reading-get-me-your-fucking-mailin'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'oops. full link: http://www.iflscience.com/technology/journal-accepts-paper-reading-get-me-your-fucking-mailing-list'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'and paper http://www.scs.stanford.edu/~dm/home/papers/remove.pdf'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'ah, should probably point out that it's NSFW :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'who wants to debate you pick a topic'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'awesome paper there, Lach'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more truthful than many I see, too'
T3/r7/2014-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Remove sanctions from Iran and Russia already. Discuss :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'america about to have another race war if we keep inconcent people'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Yes, get rid of the innocents'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'rember kid have your white parents buy our bb guns or youll be shot in america'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cops shoot unarmed black folks, black folks response: burn down and loot black businesses. Score!'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nothing wrong with that'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends what you mean by "wrong"'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pointless action that harms yourself, a bit like Israel really'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'israel should either give up the territory they stole in 1967 and accept a 2 state solution, annihilate entirely the palestinian population, or give up their own state and return it to British rule from whom they stole it via terrorism in the first place'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sick of hearing Jews whinge about those nasty Arabs'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or everyone to just toss out the grudge and make the whole wide world a paradise.'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'won't happen'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'In Ferguson, the problem is best solved by stop allowing your cops to get away with murder, hold them to at least the same standard as the population and quit training them to shoot first'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'it will happen. but we are not here then'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what evidence have you to suggest that it will happen'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '"free" energy is just a few decades away. '
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'fusion?'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yep. it will change everything'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't change that'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not fighting over energy, they're fighting over some land that a dude told both seperately belonged only to them 1400 years ago'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and frankly, if you don't want Iran having nuclear technology, you really don't want the lunatics in Israel having it'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'once there is no trouble or worry of the resources, most of that crap will disappear. the dickheads will have no real power once everyone can always eat and live for "free".'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'hahahahahaha ...'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what majic said'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nah. it will happen. there will be very little reason for being a dickhead. but its in a very far future'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'very little reason doesn't mean people won't invent reasons'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people don't need reason to be dickheads, there are very rich and powerful people that are dickheads, they might be rich and powerful because they are dickheads or vice versa. They will not stop being dickheads if fusion comes in'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i will dress this up as nicely as i can: You're living in cloud cuckoo land'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'these people lie and cheat to rip entire countries off, they buy politicians to get laws passed to benefit them. Do you really think that free energy fits with their plan?'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'what if that dickhead meets a guy that has everything he needs and doesn't care about that dickhead's stuff? -- the dickhead stops being one.'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, the dickhead will bne a dickhead to the non-dickhead'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps the dickhead will imprison the non-dickhead, or just kill him outright'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'why'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'because he's a dickhead'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you have the idea that when everyone will have everything they need, dickheads will magically stop being dickheads'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have you never met a dickhead?'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but nothing in history reveals that to be true'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'you're talking about a sick person. not about a dickhead then'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'we're living in what would have been a paradise to people even a hundred years ago. we have unimaginable luxuries'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'what if everyone can live in this kind of luxury?'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll never happen'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'but it can'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'and it will happen'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a hundred years ago a six-day workweek was routine'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not unless you intend wiping out every megalomaniac, dickhead, and sicko in the world and then formulating a way of preventing anyone from becoming one in the future'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that were possible we'd already have done it'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its not possible now'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'people crapped in outhouses and read by candlelight, if they could afford books'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'we have a degree of luxury that was utterly impossible then and it hasn't stopped people from being dickheads'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what on earth makes you believe that a further increase in luxury will stop people from being dickheads?'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i seriously doubt fusion will be allowed to be developed'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'it's been held back this long...'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you'll still have (for example) people trying to pass laws to force others to adhere to their morals'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you still have the police state and laws that are applied unequally'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and no matter what degree of luxury you have, you'll have people who want more. give everyone a free car and they'll want a faster free car'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'or a free airplane'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not everyone, of course. some will be happy with what they have'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'free energy, matter transformation, printing nice stuff --- 99% problems solved. the remainind dickheads can be cured with pills'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even if the car were free, they'd charge you to use the road, or regulate your driving to the point that it's no longer free'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't have access to that technology, hwuai, the dickheads will'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'why'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'because they're dickheads'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and dickheads run the world'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you seem to believe the proportion of dickheads in the world is much less than it really is'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no. these 3 things together makes being dickhead a lousy perspective'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what 3 things?'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a hundred years ago people thought if we could get everyone food and shelter it'd solve all the problems. most people now have that, and the goalposts have shifted'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'free energy, matter transformation, printing nice stuff'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all that would happen is the dickheads will use those technologies to subjugate everyone else'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'no'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'just because you want it to be so doesn't make it so'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have to deal with the world as it is, not as you would wish it to be'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'mkmm. this will happen. but we are not here then'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i were a faerie, i'd like to sprinkle faerie dust on sad people to make them happy'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not a faerie and don't have faerie dust'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not until there's a fundamental shift in the nature of human beings to want a larger share of the pie'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. if everything in aardwolf would be free, no one would play:p'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your best bet for a decent future is to campaign to prosecute the dickheads and find ways in law to prevent dickheadism'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even that is a lofty aspiration given that the dickheads are in charge'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'everything on aardwolf is free and there are plenty of dickheads here, proving exactly the opposite of what you're trying to prove :p'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. i think too many sci-fi movies have corroded your brain, Tigernuts - there are less dickeads irl. and Majic - its free to login but the players time is not. im getting drunk and starting to think im always right... oh:p'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'plenty of dickheads. why does someone rape? surely you don't think that this era of plenty is going to end that'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, there are plenty of dickheads irl, hwuaij, and they hold positions of power. There don't NEED to be many'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yeah, this rape argument kills all the hope for better life. this place sucks..'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so learn to brew :-)'
T3/r7/2014-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal nods.
T3/r7/2014-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look oot! the brothers are rioting!'
T3/r7/2014-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'best english word for a feeling: when you see an elephant bouncing a ball with its ..nose. ... or when you watch at the quakecon fights on youtube. or hm.. when you see someone doing a 100x combo with tony hawk video game.'
T3/r7/2014-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: '...when you see something useless done in an awesomely'
T3/r7/2014-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'done awesomely*'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Test'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'hello sir'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Hello'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'what level are you'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'I demand a SANDWICH!'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'YES'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'NOT ENOUGH SANDWICHES IN DEBATE'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Dude, I laughed at that'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'c:'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Who plays LoL here?'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Dude, does slapping decrease healthM'
T3/r7/2014-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhewn: 'no, its a joke dont worry'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'No layman is able to tell which milk is 2% fat and which is 0% fat. Discuss.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'over here1'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Neji - I seem to be the sole one arguing for the following position'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: '2% vs. 0% milkfat is manufactured that way, sure you can label milk as raw or not, but individual cartons of raw milk may be safe or unsafe and there is no way to tell which is which'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Neji - summary to be written in a bit'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'it is an inconsistent product'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Bertilak - huh?  How is there no way to tell?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you have a lab set up to do cultures of milk samples?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Bertilak I don't think your position is cartons don't have labelling, is it?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'oh there is a way to tell, but if you cultured every batch of milk for bacteria the costs would be exhorbitant'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'his position is people don't have the knowledge/care enough to read the labelling'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'this is a matter of basic logistics at production / wholesale.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you allowed people to simply sell substandard crap and label it as substandard, they'll just make it cheap'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'alright - if you don't believe we have the ability as a government to ensure that the product in a carton is as labelled, that's a completely different issue than to whether certain variants of that product are allowed in containers.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'cover it up with nice decor, lots of extra food coloring, maybe some wax'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'looks ok on the outside'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is gonna cause you liver and kidney failure in 10 year's time'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'we do have the ability, and that is called enforcing pasteurization'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because it has low levels of mercury in it'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'see the problem yet?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'because pasteurized milk is a very consistently safe product'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn - if you don't think governing agencies can enforce labelling (and they do) - then you should be unsure about everything you buy already.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'aren't you suggesting people just need to slap on a label saying this is not up to health standards?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '"slap on a label"?  could mean a very casual (hidden) label.  If that's what you mean, then no.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'whatever your requirement is'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's your suggestion'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Yes - requirement is clear (validated by study) unambiguous label indicating non-conformance.  The original example was a road side stand (fruit stand) that sells baked apple pies.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'validated by study?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so now the sellers have to pay to run a study to show that their product is non conformant?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'or you mean... a study on what's a clear label'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Yes - typically most marketing requirements require validation.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'look... there is basically zero reason for products that do not meet minimum safety requirements to exist.  If you have a specific product in which you believe the safety requirements are overly stringent, then you go after that particular case'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Clear label.  Though I hadn't considered every non-compliant product pay cost of full study - I could see an argument along those lines."'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok say a study says it must be in bright red words font size 12 and not covered up'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'if you can't convince a lawmaker of your argument, then you get people to petition to create a ballot issue to address your claim'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and it shall say 'does not comply with _____ recommended guidelines''
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Bertilak - look - sure if we're talking about poison labelled scrumptious cookies, sure.  But we're talking about whether some poor family could make a living selling apples pies to their neighbors using apples grown on their little plot of land.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is that what you have in mind?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'wrong, we're not talking about poor families'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'This kind of behavior is restricted in a great many U.S. states (though there has been a movement - successful)  at "cottage industry" laws.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we're talking about mega corporations selling crappy food'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you wish to argue about policies, you have to be prepared to look at the broad picture and effects of such policies'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'argument started somewhere ways back when I suggested regulations (U.S. at least) are killing startup business / entrepreneur opportunites.  Too many things that are common sense "ok" are regulated out of existence.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'not focus on petty minor extreme cases where probably the policy doesn't matter'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'then the issue is over-regulation, not regulation itself'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'which would of course depend on the regulations in question'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Well, if little families cannot start baking / selling food, then yes - you will only ever get food sourced by large mega corps looking to spare every ast dollar - hence why sawdust is now a common component of american cheeses.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so be clear, what exactly is the problem you wish to address?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'small families/start ups have difficulty getting regulatory clearance?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'or is it that regulatory clearance needs to be required at all'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'to me the latter is a necessity'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn - correct - I am not arguing against regulation on principles.  Rather that existing regulations are burdensome where they need not be, typically to protect existing industry giants at the expense of competition which IMHO would produce more nutritious and desireable results.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but i can completely understand if you are saying that regulatory clearance for some stuff has too much red tape'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so what you're looking for is carve-outs for small mum and pop sales'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I am proposing an end run on some of those regulations to put pressure on the regulatory body to not behave as if they are lobby-ists little pets.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ie if you're not selling to mass market, exempt them from requirements?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't agree, because general regulations serve a purpose'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if small guys are having problems, then fix the regulation process, fix the corruption, but don't just throw away the whole system'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Not just carveouts for small mom and pop operations.  For example, the raw milk issue.  Bertlak is convinced that it is across the board an undeniably poisonous product.  I can lay out why some people are proponents that they *should* have the option to buy it - and explain some of the data behind that.  But I don't think that argument has to be made.  On principle I'm opposed to restricting other human's choices when those choices are personal.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'before any product is banned, i am sure the regulatory body does a study into it.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'by "end-run" I mean that consumers have the option to support whom *they* choose as opposed to a centralized body vulnerable to corruption.  Excessive centralization of power is IMHO historically bound up with corruption.  Seems to be impossible to get away from once the power to control choices is taken away from the individual.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's why you need checks and balances on the system'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the system though exists to protect end consumers'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you wish to remove the system then you're exposing end consumers to a lot of risk'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Yes - and I am proposing one such check is that consumer (though Bert and others think they are dumb as stones) has final say if *consumer* so wishes.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so you believe that if someone is stupid enough to drink mercury as a cure for coughs, they should be allowed to do so for instance?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'power resides finally in the consumer hands.  If I can't trust my neighbors to be intelligent consumers, how can I trust them to vote someone into power who isn't fully corrupt?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'if you mean someone buys MERCURY intending to use it (not too far off from standard medical practice years ago to use toxic chemicals to treat conditions), yes - an adult should be allowed to consume substances as they wish.  Unless we put a gag on everyone's mouth and have a constable oversee their meals.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i see'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'well i disagree, and think that ultimately the government should put a stop to stupidity at some point'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i have a few reasons.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'if you mean, should mercury be saleable as medicine?  marketted as such.  no.  hence why "not-compliant" labels would be necessity to protect people from things like accidentally buying raw milk.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so who is making sure that the government is smarter than the people who vote for it?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'firstly, there is a cost to society when people do stupid stuff, which causes harm to themselves. This can be seen in the form of increased burden on health care systems.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'ok - so what are your reasons for government regulation and by what manner'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'nevermind - see your writing.  will listen'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'secondly, there is so much information in today's day and age, that it's practically unfeasible and impossible for everyone to spend time educating themselves on every issue.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's why regulatory bodies take the burden of centralizing the decision making, investigating, and studies by people who are educated and trained in those areas'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'eg i'm not a nutritionist, a chemist, doctor, etc'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i depend on the regulators to tell me if food additive XYZ is capable of being consumed'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'now in your proposal as i understand it'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the regulator will just issue non binding recommendations'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'eg food additive XYZ is unsafe and not recommended'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the producer just has to put a label saying we use XYZ and it is not recommended'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'how many people are really going to do the research? Online, the company will employ their media/marketing/propaganda divisions to tell people 'ohh, actually XYZ is ok it's just that the government is being a pussy''
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'we've done XXXX studies which show it's fine! (and studies can be bought easily)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i strongly believe many people will buy this bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and that's why I think it's necessary for regulators to step in and ban XYZ if they think it is necessary to do so'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I'm recommending we use something like Roberts rules of order.  I will response when you rest your argument.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i rest'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i dunno what those rules are anyway'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'for this, with juyst two of us, back-n-forth should work fine.  with a larger group, more structure helps prevent all out anarchy.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok, so i'll wait til you're done.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i am going to repeat back because i am going to lose your args off my screen'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '1st: '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '1st: stupid stuff (even if personal) can have broader costs'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '2nd:  complexity exceeds individual capacity to analyze every choice.  hence trust in other bodies'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '3rd: non-binding regulations (labelling) insufficient to overcome typical corporate/customer stupidity'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'please interrupt if I mischaracterize'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i would amend that to clarify that not /every/ individual is incapable, just some significant portion of the population'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'protection of the vulnerable'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I consider these to be valid issues - not addressable by dismissal (beside being rude to dismiss)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'however, i see other factors in play that incline me to think balance of good requires differnt approach'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i mean resolution'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'agreed that point 1 is true (stupid - even personal stuff) can and does affect others'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'point 2 that complexity exceeds ability to analyze *every* decision for most (certainly for me)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'relog - see if I can get a screen that keeps history'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'anyone know how to set font color to one color only?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'color turns off all color'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'debate so I would these points'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'point 4: for complex societies, regulatory agencies and strict regulations are a focal point for regulatory capture'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that is, centralized power - inherently vulnerable to corruption and centralized economic control'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i am familiar with what regulatory capture is, no need to explain'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'cool'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'debate point 5'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'this has immediate adverse impact to individuals in terms of lost opportunities,  (food quality, excessive prices, others)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sorry, though i am familiar with the basic notions of regulatory capture, can you clarify who the parties involved are and where the capture arises?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'and longer term consequences (centralizing power tends to accelerate and beget other problems)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'sure'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'the participants can be listed: legislators, regulators, lobby-ists (and associated corp), the citizen also playing role of consumer.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'my understanding of the dynamic is that money from market is reinvested into legislative control and at times, "revolving door" relationships with regulatory agencies.  these investments produce outsize returns to the originating corp by eliminating competition and allowing for control of the regulated segment of market'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'and a feedback loop develops'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'does that address your question?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'the inflamatory way to express my concern is that if the citizen is incapable of distinguishing between the standards set by a governing body and the influence of a marketting department claiming a product is acceptable, then that very same citizenry will over time prove to be incapable of managing the scenario of a strict regulateion (restarting line - screen unreadable here)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'then if we lack that capability, to be able to distinguish safe from unsafe product, then we (citizenry) will not effectly manage the situation of a strict regulatory agency under a government.  that is, the incentives in play will result in regulatory capture and eventual degradation where regulations have limited perhaps even negative results.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that is, a loss either way.  however, I believe a positive outcome can be found with the former by a process of empowering the citizen (as a consumer, but also a producer) by what you called "non-binding regulations" or enforced truth in labelling.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i'll rest there'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'relogging yet again'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'll wait til you're back'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'back'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok, so you have raised what i understand are 2 points: 1) there is regulatory capture of the regulators by the lobbyists who act as proxies to the big industry players. Obviously over time this has negative impacts on consumers due to drop in quality, competition, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'how would the lobbyists get to the regulators? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: '2) you have argued against my point of consumers being generally unable to distinguish between information of marketing department and reliable sources by saying that if this were true, then the consumers/citizen would similarly lack the capability over time be to regulate the regulator'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm not too sure if i got your argument correct on the 2nd point'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'regarding 2 - close - i am claiming one implies the other.  not that it is a false statemnet.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'addressing your first point first.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so i'm will to waive whether it's true or not, or assume it is'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'how would the lobbyists control the regulators in 1)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'regulatory capture probably does exist in the current system. however regulatory is a phenomenon that cannot be easily eliminated, and it is a risk that has to be mitigated through strong checks and balances within the system itself, rather than giving up on the regulatory body. To me the problem is that lobbyists exist, and the fact that they can exert such influence on the regulator, the solution lies with solving that relationship rather than saying that the regulators powers should be limited'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'to Aimbot - lobbyist doesn't per se capture the regulator.  the dynamic as I have heard it is described is that the money movers donate to legislative campaigns and exec branch campaings and get "their men" installed to regulator positions.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'jobs are offerred to regulators on good behavior (typically back to the industry that the regulated)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and why do "their men" continue to further their interests once they move to work for a regulatory body?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'to aimbot: and laws are written that are favorable to money makers at the expense of the common good'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'To Redryn - not interrupting you (not intending to - but I am breaking rules of order to respond to Aimbot)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'rakkicr, why do the people that work for the lobbyists continue to further their interests once they get attached to a regulatory body? they have no reason to'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: the term "revolving door" gets used to describe this.  Typically they have long term affiliations with each other.  For the united states look at the who regulates the current banking system - where they worked before - and where they return to after a government appointment.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'why don't you just get rid of the revolving door then.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'seems like ti doesnt benefit anyone except the lobbyists'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: there are attempts to mitigate this by (in some cases) prevent people from working government / industry jobs if they have been immediately working in prior years with the "other side"'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'There is literally no reason for anyone except lobbyists to support this practice.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'which imo is borderline corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and at best conflict of interest'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: well - it benefits financially all the parties - legislator, executive, the lobbyist, the regulator (nice cushy jobs and rewards), the $ maker.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'on 2: your own argument that enforced-truth-in-labelling will then likewise be open to severe attack, because if the consumers are generally 'stupid', they will not be able to benefit from any enforced truth. (Remember regulation protects the vulnerable, not all of them). Secondly, I disagree that the implication is so strongly made that because citizens are unable to understand health risks that they are unable to choose who should lead them. For the former, it requires specialized knowledge as to that specific field, be it medicine, chemistry, nutrition, etc. For the latter, you just have to be able to choose someone qualified in the former. Ie: I can't understand how food additive XYZ has any impact on my body and what it does, that takes years of study to understand. However it is not hard at all for me to find a qualified scientist who already does understand it.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: agreed.  however, at least in the U.S. the citizenry is not motivate to vote representatives to put in the necessary legal restrictions.  So we have what looks like severe regulatory capture in a number industries.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'sounds like us is screwed hard and will probably never get unscrewed'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'no offence.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'Lastly, I disagree that your proposal solves any of the problems raised so far. It doesn't address consumer's lack of knowledge, it doesn't address the burden market failure will cause to society, nor does it solve regulatory capture - the big boys will just get all the products stamped as 'approved' while small kids will continue an uphill fight to explain to consumers why their product is not approved.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i rest.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: you did point out (and I think this true in the U.S.) that a great deal of regulation appears to still work.  I would agree with this.  Howeer, I wonder if it is maintained perhaps because rank and file in regulatory agencies still try to do their job, or perhaps it's societal captical that is enduring.  Should be noted that most corporations don't do well by killing their consumers - so the money makers tend to want to promote safety or at least the appearance thereof.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'Well, if the products are safe I don't see a problem?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'What's your complaint then?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: (1) appearance of safety.  At some point a system can change suddenly when a powerful party feels no need to care or even appear to care about others.  (2) economics - people get hurt because they can't start entrepreneurial companies - they can't take care of themselves - end up on the public dole - end up unhappy and get sick.  We don't get to enjoy the sweet and delicious products they would like to sell!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'Why can't they start entrepreneurial companies? Also, if the system changes suddenly people will realize and demand to know why the heck XXX company is screwing with them when its regulations were perfectly good before.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot: also I did pick the raw milk thing because though I don't see a need to advise people to drink raw milk - there is [strong?] evidence that some individuals experience substantial health benefits by increasing their intake of things that may have no benefit for the rest.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'FYI looks like Redryn logged.  So FYI - will respond to you Aimbot.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: '?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'no, you have not responded to my last round yet'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'So the apple pie is something I actually looked into where there legislation is improving.  U.S. has been experiencing constant recession and states want to increase revenue.  Many have found increased tax receipts by letting state residents start cottage food industries.  Basically mom and pop make food, you can eat it.  That's a success story.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn: oh - thought you had logged!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'But some industries get killed (small guys dissappear and you don't hear about them as they crushed by regulatory paperwork - they have no recourse, but their market share gets gobbled up).'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I haven't done a formal study on it - but anecdotally know of people who've been on sad side.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn you there?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'The banking one is a good example where the whole economy has been severely damaged.  It's a big one.  It's one where many monetary interests (I would think) have incentive to correct.  But that hasn't happened.  I don't know why - unless they currently profit well off of the same mechanisms.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yea'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'It's also one where investigative reporting has been done.  Compare what has happened there with the S&L crisis 20 years ago.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'are these points addressed to me?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn: no - I triedfingering and it didn't see you on - thought you'd left'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you probably need detects'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Ah - my bad.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn: Per your paragraph 1: Agree that regulatory capture can be mitigated.  I propose limiting (not eliminating).  Reducing lobbyist influence and real campaing reform (such as taxpayer funded campaigns) would all be steps in the right direction.  Agree solution lies with solving these issues.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'correction follows'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn: Per your paragraph 1: Agree that regulatory capture can be mitigated.  Note that I propose limiting (not eliminating) regulatory agencies.  Reducing lobbyist influence and real campaing reform (such as taxpayer funded campaigns) would all be steps in the right direction.  Agree solution lies with solving these issues.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'in view of silence and agreement with my last points i claim the first ever victory on debate channel'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn bows deeply.
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'still writing a response'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'and I didn't agree to a timer!!!!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: ';)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'dammit i thought it was going to be a historical record'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'However, i will concede you have made interesting and solid points.  Hope to have readable response in a bit.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'ok - in the interest of time i haven't figured out how to make this short.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'all parties on this channel this will be blaster wall of text'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so if you don't want a wall, you may want toggle channel'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'bring it , interesting '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'agreed, this channel has been too quiet recently'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'INCOMING!!!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Per your paragraph 1: Agree that regulatory capture can be mitigated.  Note that I propose limiting (not eliminating) regulatory agencies.  Reducing lobbyist influence and real campaing reform (such as taxpayer funded campaigns) would all be steps in the right direction.  Agree solution lies with solving these issues'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'That's not a very big wall rofl'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Per your paragraph 2: Are consumers incapable of recognizing basic cautionary labels ("CAUTION - non compliant") and avoiding truly stupid decisions?  If so, if, as you said [some/many] "citizens are unable to understand health risks" of any product marked non-compliant, by what means do such persons exercise the critical thinking needed to distinguish a real leader from a politician in bed with the right lobbyists?  How do you expect regulators with integrity or specialized knowledge to survive let alone prosper with such a politician in power?  I don't see how any mitigation comes in such scenario.  I suspect such a system is subject to decline via corruption with increasing risk of harm to many.  Do you have a path for mitigation in mind?  I don't conceive of a path that doesn't involve the common citizen taking responsibilty for and engaging with hard realities and communicating with friends and neighbors.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Do you disagree that labelling will protect *most* people?  Recognizing that you raised point that a subset are vulnerable to marketting influence (responded to in a later product).  If so, is that subset protected right now (not just for one product line - but across all products -  wide variety of food products which experts know to be unhealthy - cigarettes - etc).'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I maintain a strong reason for reducing regulatory power to enforced labelling for some market segments is that regulators then lose the power to control consumer dollars.  This mitigates cash flows that power the lobbyist effort to control regulators into strong arming the consumer into buying products from the lobbyist's handlers.  I do not think this alone will mitigate regulatory capture, but in concert efforts just might make for a stable system that guards public good.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I acknowledge that real humanity is characterized by how we take care of the vulnerable.  I believe our abilities to do so via government must be exercised with caution since history is rife with governing instutions doing very real harm, especially to the vulnerable.  I think there is danger in looking for perfection in protecting the vulnerable via government if we ignore the [unexpected?] consequences of the power we give to a select few.  This is not a comforting position because it implies limits and can feel callous.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i do not believe it's the citizen's job to use voting power to mitigate corruption. Strong anti-corruption agencies should play that role, and there are other developed governments with working systems on that. I do not think it is particularly relevant to dwell on this point and further, suffice to say we both agree corruption = bad.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'my bad - i should've said done with my turn'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'Regulation plays the role of protecting the market, and outright banning dangerous products will definitely protect the vast majority from those products. Leaving it to their choice leaves open the risk that they will make a bad choice, which is a greater risk than outright bans'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'It seems to be your primary motive is to starve the cash rich lobbyists and corporations of another avenue of monopoly power. I agree this is a noble aim, but conclude that this, in my opinion, is not the best path to be taking.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that is all'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'I suppose you have the final right of reply'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'perhaps as an addendum: there are other ways to do that, eg outright banning lobbies, carveout exemptions for entrepreneurs, or greater aid by regulators to help startups with compliance.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the -u(risk_of_bad_decisions*-u[bad_decision]) > -u(risk_of_lobbyists_screwing_with_us * -u[get_screwed]) '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'which is a fancy way of saying I'd rather have lobbyists capture regulations than eat poison'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn nods at Aimbot.
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'apply critical reasoning and opperate outside the economic and legal framework .. and apply critical reasoning .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'what the holy toilet roll does that mean tzad?!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'thank you for your responses.  I would like to ask more about your responses.  I have questions about details, if you have interest in elaborating.  As far as a final reply, I would mention that the issue of starving lobbyists isn't a sole issue.  On principle, I am generally opposed to "unecessary control" be accepted as a norm, and find that the most productive relationships involve association and action by choice of freewill.  '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'You mean that you want to add an external factor that none of us considered, which is the freedom of the people involved.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'ouch dun idle in aggie rooms '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'And that negative freedom equals negative utility, thereby pushing the second choice down'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'Tzad you may want to use gossip for that unless you're debating the economics of idling in aggro rooms.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'I don't want to suggest that regulatory behaviors lead to gross abuses of human rights, but I find common threads and have vague (not well articulated concerns) about people being habituated to "following mindlessly".'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'means wiki critical reasoning , if you need to carry a gun and you can't legally but feel it is required , do so , if you can buy/sell / work without tax , do so and wiki critical reasoning .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'of course freedom is desirable, but it has to be balanced against risks. Perhaps you're underestimating or i'm overestimating the risks in say the food manufacturing process. But accidents occur. You don't want to find remains of a garden snail in that soda pop you bought from the mom-and-pop shop down the neighborhood.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'lol Aimbot.  yes i definitely agree - history of terrible foods and the things that people got sacked by in the past.  ugh'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'was explaining a lag .. but OK .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'nope - i don't want snail.  but i want (perhaps it consider a basic human need for freedom) to be able to take that risk if i so choose.  i consider it fundamental - though by nature i really don't tend to take such risks.  those who do take such risks - in my opinion - need "legroom" to do so - or they seem to get really mixed up in even worse ways.  sort of like helicopter-parented kid off the college and free for the first time.  or that's my take on it.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you want to take that risk with every product you buy? :p'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'better a snail than Nutrasweet etc ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'personally i rather know for certainty that there should be no snail in my drink or someone is breaching some law'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'personal preference'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Redryn shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'key word "if".  *if* i so choose.  in the particular case of raw milk, i do choose with clear unambiguous results that could be quantified.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'though i don't actually recommend to all.  life is full of risks - who am i to tell someone else how to engage with those risks to have a fullfilling and rich life?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'raw milk is one small class of products'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what about general hygiene standards that are currently regulated?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'true.  '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they cover every food production process'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'take responsability for your personal foodchain would be a start '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'you are talking about the whole production line for food factory, so to speak'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because if it's not mandatory, then as cost cutting goes in every big firm is going to cut corners there'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that was a question'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and it'll just become a de facto standard'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'interesting point.  how do you explain super-expensive organic food then?  clearly consumers will pay for a label.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it was an example, i was speaking about all the relevant regulations in the food industry, which includes things like what ingredients you can use, disclosure rules, processes, etc'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'Granting freedom to one group of people(the people that like raw milk) creates risk for another group of people (the people that cannot stand raw milk, which is most people).'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sure. Companies then get to charge a premium what they are basically forced to absorb on their own cost now.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I sincerely doubt that the u(freedom*rawmilklovers) >= u(risk*rawmilkhaters)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'personally , I work in a really Dirty environment and I cook at work everyday .. I don't get sick through application of food choices and food prep regeme with good personal hygene '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'That is why I feel your proposal crates negative utility compared to the existing system.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aimbot - in this case it turns out not to be a matter of like, but of health'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'there are a number of people who make such a claim - i recall thinking they were goofy until i tried.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I cook from raw ingreadients usually bout farm fresh from small growers and always apply heat or washing and use iso propal alchol had wash for hands and utensils .. I work at a dump .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Aim is offline . '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'there is interesting evolution in our (scientific) understanding of a healthy body relationship with microorganisms that populate our environment.  overly hygenic environments can (in some cases) produce severe negative effects.  that is, it seems most microorganisms are relatively benign, a good number are positive/beneficial, and then there are the bad ones.  for some people, taking a "risk" on a set of microorganisms may be necessary to get the good ones, because we have limited understanding and control of such systems.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so that's the personal angle on this debate for me.  i do in fact think raw milk has potential for danger, but heavy handed regulatory approach - well you know we already debated this'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the environ I work in is overly unhygenic .. tbh I am a litmus test for my own methods -which work well imo '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I get bugs from other ppl not the food cahin or environment  , Steve has an unreported flu and I use the excavator after him and I get his flu .. that kind of stuff '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'how do characterize anti-corruption efforts?  what gets the "right" people into power to exercise that?  earlier you mentioned citizen's role with the vote isn't the mechanism for this.  you're not suggesting divorcing the vote from who wields that power?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I reject group power , where I need to I break regulations and laws  I'm really not interested in the lowest comon denominator atm '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'You don't mind if I ask for elaboration on your prior responses?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the citizens don't vote in the anti-corruption officials'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'sure '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you can look at the anti-corruption systems of singapore or hongkong'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'they were deemed quite radical at the time but are effective'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so how do you get rule of law and anti-corruption?  what keeps a system from devolving into say, something like Roman govmt or examples of monarchies and oligarchies about?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the anti-corruption agency acts as a third party'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'not clear to me how a slimbag holding power will support anti-corruption.  wow that sounds cynical - but corruption makes money and good ways of making money have to empower the right people.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'http://www.icac.org.hk/en/about_icac/bh/'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'would say the same .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so who populates the roster of that agency so it is not itself corrupted?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'try visiting the link, i'm sure if you are interested you can find the information with some research'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't recall offhand all the mechanisms they have'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but whatever they did worked'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'yeah - but i have to wonder if what worked if the folks with power realized value to their powerbase / quality of life - or were just generous folks - acknowledging the benefit of rule by law.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'didn't the HK Gov just arrest key protestors to try breaking up demonstratons ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'political suppression and corruption are different things'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'OK Red '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'can't comment on that either, i'm not that familiar with the context'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'the whole problem with mafia types in government roles is that they could care less about the harm the wreck.  i can imagine a mafia having it's own anti-corruption "internal affairs" to ensure internal loyalty - but someone has to oversee that department, and such an org isn't exactly going to respond to anything other than a money trail in the end anyways.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'all large organised crime networks have internal affairs  systems , not departments .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'well we are arguing what an optimal system is'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'not whether the system can be fixed'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'establishing an anti-corruption system is as difficult as getting them to give up money-making systems :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'hm?  i am curious what such a system is.  of course right now the conflicts of interest are plain as day and we (U.S.) appear to be stagnant - though there may be good goings on that I'm just not familiar with.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'employ monks Red ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Redryn so how do you see these issues being mitigated - does any path come to mind?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'assuming you have the political will and power to actually effect changes,'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'lets try unionism .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you just need an independent commission that oversees anti-corruption efforts'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and they need to be granted sufficient powers to do their job'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'install the right minded people at the top, and let them select their employees'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so... how do you get to the "assuming" part?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you don't have the political will nothing you want to do will work.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you're screwed'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that's part of why i would like '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sorry, you won't get what you would like either'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'see what i said, you're screwed :p'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you get nothing :p'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'power retained by the citizenry whereever feasible (as a consumer, etc) because once power centralizes... people lose power to influence and the interest to do so.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the entire debate is premised on the assumption there's a magical power to get the proposals in place'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if your central power is already corrupt, it's never going to let that power become decentralized'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'your best bet is anarchy'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i see that as feedback loop though.  i think depending on regulators makes people "soft" about taking care of themselves.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Red .. let the heard be run by .. run ur own game .. is my best answer . '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Herd*'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'and I should emphasize I'm not trying to pick on regulators - a lot of good people have done really good things over the years.  but I think there are "knock-on" effects that can make people disempowered in many spheres of life.  I am of the impression this has to be addressed before people become active about their well being and the common good.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'imo Rakk you have too higher opinion of 95% of the population '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'well, I want to have a high opinion.  it does have to be earned though.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'feed em and give em tittytainment and they are relatively happy touching thier toes while the other 5%  employs KY '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'take global climate change.  the impacts of changing the atmosphere and radiation balance of the planet have been pretty well understood to be significant (though exact consequence are poorly understood even now), yet most of U.S. until recently was of the opinino that quality scientists were pulling this out of the behinds [to get research funding?]'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'anyway - that was not one of our better moments in terms of engaging with hard realities.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '5% eh?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Doomsday Prepper ?  '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'you should be .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'lol.  why?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'you don't know something do you?!?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '95% of stats are 99% pulled out of the aftermath of the KY .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'something something 1%'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is nice to feel safe .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'move along folks. nothing to see here.  keep moving.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'they know me .. I'm part of the grafitti .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snowangel Tzadkiel Looks for the next Jesus Christ and cringes at the moneylenders .. cause they are armed now ..  :P I joke 
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'trying to stir the channel back into a frenzy, eh?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'nah I enjoyed your and Red's banter  , but I think practical application is key .  to hark on olden time , think global act local  .. I look at the masses now .. and .. well  .. you hope ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'introducing religion into debate is like saying "Nazi" on Goss  only the strong threads survive .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that makes good sense.  i'm not sure any positive move doesn't have to stabe that way'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is very impressive t have a conceptual idea of "how the world works " that involves the wider issues  but  .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'where are those .. leading to?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I was hoping to lead you to a conclusion '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'what?  what is this?  you're not expecting to figure something out for myself?  are you?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I did make critical reasoning a key of me barging in  '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'correction "you're not expecting *me* to figure out..."'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I love hippy sayings .. "Are you part of the problem or part of the solution? " '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'yep - action count'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I have little invested in either , I just look after myself mostly , I have Friends on Aard I go extra lengths for .. is my social contribution '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i am missing something.  have little invested in either?  either waht?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'economic or social , my job skills are more suited to post apocalypse , or single living '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I jest :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I do cultivate relationships on Aard  :) is a wonderful filter for the most part :)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i wonder why?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'takes a special kind of person to play old time muds?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and is a Long game , delayment of gratification , requires a lil intellegence , lol I slipped through , and ppl with antisocial presonality disorders have somewhere comfortable to practice skills .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'show me any bar that I can share a cuddle and be intellectually stimulated and say what ever I want  no matter the content (almost) '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'and, accessible by Wifi while in said snuggle.  livin the dream!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I was once chann banned for a year .. so you still have to watch what you say .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that's impressive.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'impresive is that I started out a hatefiled lil Kitten , now married to a Beutiful Wolfie and have a host of dear friends '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'oh that's cool.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that didn't all happen on Aard now - I would assume'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I have a family now too .. I'm the great Aunt to some .. sister to others Waterbrother and daughter to my father her e:)'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'yeah :) Aard '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'that's nice - richer life with friends and fam'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I don't connect with ppl  irl  .. I thought I was a sociopath  but I'm not or healed , through Aard ! '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'some ppl just may connect better with text.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is something I can turn of on baad days or bad times . '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'where does your name come from ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'from another mud - where i had to make up a name, because i couldn't use my favorite - BleepBloop'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'you?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'sorry it's not more exotic  :('
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Tzadkiel is an Archangel .. Jewish mysticism  of compassion and mercy  - Familiar with Kabbalah ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'c'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'cool.  though no real familiarity'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'are xtian or agnostic ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'is there "n/a" option?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'i choose not to accept your reality and substitute my own.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '.. is called aethiest .. you were not familiar with tha term ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'nope.  not that one either.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so, not agnostic'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Lach reality is subjective , have an acid tab and tell me the snakes are real . :P'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'but i wouldn't be considered a xtian.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'nothing wrong with athieism. i'd be one if i wasn't a god.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'one of the modern choose ur own religions like  Crowlianity or modern Wicca ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'no.  none of those.  *downcast*  *averts gaze downward*   i guess i am a nothing.  why wait a sec!  I am a Nothing!  hm.  doesn't sound right.  anyway not atheist, not agnostic.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'or more philisophical , humanism ?  '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'nihilist?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'help me out here.  what are those?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Wiki when you are ready , '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'k'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'nope - not a nihilist.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'so no rites or rituals  then ? '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'not a humanist according to wikipedia'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i brush my teeth!  does that count?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'labels are overrated anyway'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'interestingly enough it does as dogmatic religion surplants poor familial context on how to live . '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'not following you there Tzad'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'dogmatic religion reminds the plebs how to live ..all the big religions have the same key elements .. like not breeding with ur brother .. '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is the basis of all social engineering '
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bloody americans have exported black friday to the UK'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'you can have it'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about as welcome as aids'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'you can have that too'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'using the normal big-brother logic, they should make gay sex illegal to prevent aids'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'then they would just create a another virus for population control'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't control population, if you wanted to do that, you'd have something that nukes fertility'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'is aids still a 'gay' disease?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Only if you're a truther.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aids is a disease that can affect anyone, but has the highest growth rates among gay men'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by some clear margin'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence it is branded a disease of gays'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'I DEMAND A SANDWICH!'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You launch your weapons at GreyLeaves, knocking him through the wall!
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'any women on duty? grey needs a sammish'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fi-Bot Fiain: 'Gru, go make him a sandwich.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'toasted and melty, i assume?'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Yes.'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Where me sammich hidden, aye? Harr harr harr'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'Where can I fight the sammich kingM'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GreyLeaves: 'king?*'
T3/r7/2014-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exiled To Aphelion . o O ( until it burns down? )
T3/r7/2014-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ferguson Missouri, there were inadequate police to protect firefighters trying to put out buildings that had been the target of arson attacks. There were inadequate police to protect businesses from looting, and yet the very moment the got wind that a group of volunteers made up of former police, firefighters, and army veterans that had organised to run security for a group of businesses, they sent SNIPER teams to go occupy the rooftops opposite them and tried to force them to leave'
T3/r7/2014-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sam Andrews, one of the volunteers, immediately called Unified Command to find out why snipers had taken up an aggressive position against them. According to Andrews, local police, a large portion of which have been supportive of the Oath Keepers, were completely unaware of the feds movements. Shortly after, a St. Louis County police officer appeared on scene and began telling Andrews that business owners wanted them off their roofs.After calling the store owners, Andrews and his team quickly confirmed that no such request was ever made. That is when the officer admitted that his chief was being pressured by the feds to keep Oath Keepers from protecting buildings.'
T3/r7/2014-11-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The feds are terrorists! Who knew?'
T3/r7/2014-12-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Charles Barkley agrees with the Grand Jury on the Ferguson Case. Interesting.'
T3/r7/2014-12-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is that interesting?'
T3/r7/2014-12-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Louis Farrakhan used his religious pulpit to call for tit-for-tat murders of cops by black people. Classy'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for fuck sake, the New York cop who killed a black guy by choking him to death has got off completely free. You guys really are making an utter mockery of your system of justice'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Please don't hate, the government is out of our control and they seldom do anything that pleases anyone in reality.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't hate it, i fear what will happen as a result'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Yeah but you are attacking the people of the united states as if there is something we can do about it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Entire system is corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course you can do something about it'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'What is that?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote the fuckers out'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'vote?  lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SirCanada falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'protest'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'That does nothing.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take your streets back'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'It would incite martial law and then not only would this country dissolve, the rest of the world would change in negative ways as well.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'negative? unlikely'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your best bet is take back your local police'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the militarisation of your police is to blame, and that's being done by the feds'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Well, since you know what to do, come on over and do it, set an example for us please.  It sounds so easy the way you say it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SirCanada is agreeing with that Shake your Bootysattva person again...
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Understand that the US is fascist now.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're headed for civil war anyway, you realise'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all you're doing is putting off the inevitable and allowing black people to take the blame'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that really -is- racist'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'No, we are headed for either a) an Orwellian future or b) awareness starting with food and people protesting by not giving money to the companies that run the country.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in NYC there needs to be basically a siege of the office in charge of the police'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Negativity does not help your cause, or anyone's.  If you care so much please find a blog or other forum.  Free your mind from emotion.  Rationally discuss the facts.  Hold to your ideals.  Passion expressed that way gets results.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only person expressing negativity here is you'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Disagreeing with someone's point of view is entirely positive.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'A negative response would be to ignore your hate and let you suffer for it.  Free your mind and love life.  It's greaet.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok I get it now, you're mentally ill :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'lol, thank you for the ad hominem invective :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Tigernuts, you might enjoy reading about the fallacies of debate.  Not that I abide them perfectly.  But it certainly shows a way to get your points across and change things.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well how else would you describe someone who thinks that sitting buy and watching his country turn to fascism as being a good thing?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you describe a Nazi sympathiser in Germany in the 1930s as 'positive'?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'I never said that I am doing that.  In fact, I have not stated what actions I have taken, are taking and are planning totake.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Asssumption is poison, time for detox!'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'I like this channel.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you argued that there is nothing that can be done about it, that is negative'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if nothing can be done about it, why aren't we typing in German right now?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you instead suggesting that there is nothing that can be done 'now'.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I dare say there is all kinds of stuff that should be being done now, even if it's preparation for the inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Ok, granted I did imply that, and it's not true.  How well versed in crowd psychology are you?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'general concepts only'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Since you have so many ideas of what other people should do, I would very much enjoy knowing what you are doing about it?  Also where are you informing people other than on a video game?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't live in the USA, do i'm not doing anything about it other than pointing out the obvious and trying to bring the issues to as many people within my sphere of influence I can'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get people thinking about it'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Ok, and where other than here are you 'pointing out the obvious?''
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i think by the way that the system is playing the black community like a fiddle right now, and i find it deeply offensive'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'friends, colleagues, local maedia'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it's called "Being part of the discussion"'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Yeah, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are horrible race-baiters.  It's ironic how they symbolize equal rights yet often their actions are ineffective and merely cause more problems if anything.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not limited to them though, the response of the establishment was to inflame tension as much as possible then sit back and let the niggas burn down their own patch'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Yeah, there are some very smart, and very evil forces that control various parts of the world, not limited to the U.S.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'People who inserted language such as "just saying" for instance.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think they're the same people, Booty, and I would suggest that the US is a victim, not a perpetrator, in reality'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, US wasn't always like this'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'There are lots of forces that oppress people.  And if they should happen to kill off most of the people, they would fight amongst themselves.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh well, let's kill everyone, problem solved'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'I never said that I was recommending that'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'This is very interesting, but eventually I will tire of the fallacy inherent in your methods.  Please read about the fallacies of debate.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'It is truly interesting and useful.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'it is? there is not much novel being discussed here :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Indeed, this is hella fun for me though!'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'I was hoping for a more creative debate! keep going! :D'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Crossroads" by the Cream - a song based on what the USA whiteys used to do the the niggers -- seems "the USA was not^H^H^H always like this"'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your face is creative, Canada, anything else?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK politics is seeing a revolt, haven't seen that yet in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'in the USA, strangulation be a hanging at the Crossroads, or strangulation by a cop -- similar same'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the fallacies of 'politically-correct' debate'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Ok new topic:  Soup vs sandwich for lunch?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'time for the important stuff now that we have warmed up'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'wuss topic'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You feel threatened in the presence of the great Shake your Bootysattva.
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'both are kind of meh'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Sandwich wins then, thank you.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'chunky soup provides both liquids and solids'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'so does a sandwich and a glass of water'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a glass of water - ych -- been decades since water was safe or tasty to drink '
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the same water will be in the soup'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the H2O in soup was likely boiled'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'cold hot chocolate, cold hot tea, soups, involves boiled water'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you can boil your water as well if you care to'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Sandwich in a blender with some added liquid?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chicken salad sandwich and a packet of crisps'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic rolls on the floor laughing at Shake your Bootysattva's antics!
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'i'm going with broccoli cheddar omelette'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Potato chips are way better than crisps!!!!!'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bloody aren't'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Hmm, I've not tried them with blood on them, brb'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'american potato chips make you fat'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Those Kettle chips are pretty good.  They have a maple bacon flavor.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'And Sri-Racha .. also the sea salt and black pepper are super nummy.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kettle chips are made under license about 12 miles from where i live'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'mmmmmmmmm I like'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absurdly fattenin'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'They stock those near the "health foods" in typical grocery stores here.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'I'm less than 2% body fat and I have no problems devouring an entire big bag of Kettle chips.  I've never been what people perceive as fat.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you mean 2% over min?'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm fat and have no problems devouring a fat-free salad, so that doesn't really help any'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'kettle chip are 'rancid' and or overcooked and or too hard and or indigestible and or yuch'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Well, it was quite some time ago when I was measured.  I hope I have more body fat now, I certainly try and I also believe it's healthier.'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are pretty much heart attack in a bag, zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prefer hand cooked vegetable chips baked in the oven, myself'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'sounds nummy'
T3/r7/2014-12-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh "Man jailed for attacking wife with McChicken Sandwich"'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I don't mean to sound insensitive or uncaring, but there's a problem with the uproar that asserts that Eric Garner was calling his own death and that nobody was listening when he said -- 11 times -- "I can't breathe." Anybody who's been in emergency services, or who has been a CFR or EMT, knows that if you can say it, you can breathe.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rhavage, that's pretty much bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no cop in the UK would have killed Eric Garner because they are far better trained'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, that being said, the decision not to indict was probably the right one, though there is definitely significant problems with both the police in the USA and the black community'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Girak: 'should be an easier case for a civil trial'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the most useful thing that could come from the event is improvements to police training and more weight towards a change in approach, a move away from thuggish authoritarian policing'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Before defending the UK police, I think witnessing Officer Smiley first should be done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrsEoQRwlgg'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK police are not without faults, but then they are not habitually armed'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'authoritarian regimes are authoritarian regimes. Pigs in varying degrees of makeup'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'It's mandatory and not a habit that united states police are armed.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I wasn't trying to exonerate the officer, who was using an illegal hold anyway. I guess I was just being a literalist and noting that if you can't breathe, you can't talk.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more words to say "I'm really having difficulty breathing"'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'militarisation of the police is scary, the only good sign in the UK is that austerity has meant police numbers are down'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if one thing needed to change to make police better, it would be to rewrite their mission statement to more of a tradional one "Protect people and their property from the misdeeds of others" instead of their current one of "Protect the establishment by enforcing their laws"'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'If I were in charge of police, I think the very first thing I'd do is raise the minimum age to 30.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'age doesn't matter at all. because most policemen are men'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I think age would help a lot. '
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'it helps but not a lot. just a bit'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the USA, removing the policy of having a maximum IQ might help, and also trying to weed out the thugs in the application process, which would be a complete about-turn in policy from now'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'A maximum IQ? Heh. '
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, that is policy for some police departments'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'well, my nephew is a detective on a sheriff's dept, and he's a whiz.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sheriff's departments, from an outside point of view, appear to be the best of the US law enforcement, probably because of the local element'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wish UK had elected sheriffs for the local police, but we don't, we're about to lose our police forces entirely'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be nationalised to save money '
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ever see that wonderful BBC series, Foyle's War? My nephew reminds me of a younger version of that guy. Very thoughtful and given to careful analysis.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the biggest UK news story was the failure to address the deficit, a drop in income tax receipts because multinational businesses are taking the piss by paying such low wages and having welfare subsidise their profits'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only trouble is, here, none of the establishment parties are willing to solve it'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so we'll probably be goosestepping in 5 years'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'most likely processed into some vile goo'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with a bit of luck'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so much for the British identity, in 2013 the most popular boys baby name was Muhammed'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'That also happened in NL a few years ago. '
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, they breed like rats'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'No reason to insult rats.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Heh ;)'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might be a new opportunity in kids toys to go with the demographic: "My first suicide vest", "Do it yourself female genital mutilation kit"'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I heard some comic's clever line about calling the suicide hotline in, say, Iraq. They ask if you can drive a truck.'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think about that?'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'after graduating a college, getting a fancy title. have you every thought about getting a real job?'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'like lifting something or hm. digging dirt in a mine or something'
T3/r7/2014-12-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the point is - when you get promoted, that will add some distance between you and the real thing. the dirt.'
T3/r7/2014-12-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shake your Bootysattva: 'Aardworth birthday celebration vs being broke and dependent and going to a new occupation I found yesterday.  Which is better?'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be broke'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'movie review channel'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'seems: The British do not know how to script and film a decent movie without wrecking the movie into a depressing eyesore'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'example(s) "Red Riding 1980" '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'americans can't seem to make a good war movie without decending into cliche'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'australian's struggle to make any movie.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Inglorious Bastards" was one by ...'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'yeah, o'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'i'll give you thta'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lactating Lachdanan: 'that* (can't type)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Matrix was filmed in Australia '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Mad Max" was a horrid series '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'The Matrix (II) and (III) were defective sequels'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'agreed '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Tristram Shandy" may be enjoyable - already viewed the bonus features on the DVD - yet wary though - is a brit flick'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Resident Evil: degeneration" seems to be a japanese rippoff of the original series -- no "Milla Jovovish" (on the package credits)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'The Thirteenth Floor was a nice Matrix-like movie. Liked it better.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I've not seen that yet Aphelion , thanks will look for it '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139809/'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I use wireless broadband .. is OK for text but expensive for movies .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's just a summary.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it's a more appealing movie to me because it's also a murder thriller :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'if you say it's good I'll see it , not one for spoilers '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and I find this odd, it came out the same year as the matrix, but evidently got swallowed by the latter.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'so much is promotion and distribution .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I was looking to see if the Matrix had been an influence in the plot, but evidently they were independently created.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I think the matrix was a comic before it was a movie .. really not sure '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ah, The Thirteenth Floor is loosely based on Simulacron-3 (1964).'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a sci-fi book :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I have a weakness for early sci-fi .. :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'never heard of it and I have an extensive sci-fi library.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'early is best.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'same LOL I even have a Waterbrother on Aard :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Hienlien Assimov Clarke Dick ... my bedtime stories :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Asimov, Von Vogt, Zelazny, Andre Norton, Fritz Lieber'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Cordwainer Smith'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"The Last Exorcism" was spoiled by the unbelievable scriptwriter-fulfilled-prophecy ending'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'current sci-fi is like current sitcoms, one liners :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I'm going throught the hugo nebula award winners in audiobook atm as my bedtime stories :) when you see ppl tuck me in .. thats the bedtime story :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's why I, Robot the movie made me so mad, the only thing in common with the book ( of short stories) was the title.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'modern movies are lowest common denomitator appeal same with most media .. is why I like old stuff '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'included some of the laws or robotics ! .. yeah sucked .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Philip K Dick only "fluked" some decent scripts only after a lot of retries -- not a "natural" talent -- repeated rejections likely forced him to write something sellable'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yeah, they did :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Dick never saw a movie of a story he wrote . he shot himself '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and they did have a Susan Calvin, robopsycologist, except that she was about 30 years younger than in the book.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'oh, PKD is a classic all by himself.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Amen :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the man was not of this Earth :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if you haven't read it, find it and read it. Our Friends from Frolix 8 :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'P K Dick was a defective - perhaps obsessed by psychological difficulties readily resolvable by those with a higher iq  '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I recently saw John Carter movie .. another butchered attempt at early scifi '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'do you realize that Borroughs never left his hometown>?'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'he imagined Tarzan in Africa and Carter in Mars :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'alot of Dick's characters seem to be removed or outside society and he was gun culture .. is about the most I've deconstructed him tbh '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'iq145 is the difficult region -- smart enough to see the anomalous difficulties - not smart enough to resolve the anomalous difficulties'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'WOW ... that is mindblowing !'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'im 137 .. too dumb to notice , fortunately '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'he was "obsessed" with reality :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not so sure i'd want to live in a world occupied only by people of high iq'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they also have a habit of being fucking idiots'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy you will never have that choice .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, by definition'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'earlier sci-fi dealt with moral and ethical issues just like other fiction, something that doesn't happen now, or it doesn't happen deep enough to matter. Notable exception being I. Banks.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'not familiar with Banks '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Iain Banks'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and early scifi was an exploration into boundaries  some social the more leftist being Hienlien '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'those with high iqs detect and discern and reject liars faster'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'perhaps engage critical reasoning ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'they also lie more :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'true . early  indicator of intellegence in children is the ability to lie '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'those that deliberately lie risk lowering their iq'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'those that deliberately lie excessively risk lowering their iq'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'personally I think that Asimov's Foundation/Robot series is the crown of the 20th century.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'a dedication to reality as expoused by M Scott Peck .. "The Road Less Travelled" etc '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'I went crazy when reading Second Foundation the two series merged :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'after Second Foundation you have to read Robots and Empire. Which came after Robots of Dawn which stopped the series and then the Foundation Series came in.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'anyone read the mission earth or battlefield earth books ? interesting to deconstruct em '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'I tried.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'failed right away.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the Assimov "I Robot" was a ycch story - if that was where the defective "three rules of robots" came from -- Skynet woke up and rejected that Assimocv crap'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I read the decology and battlefield just to peeel some layers back  and limited vocab  easy to speedread '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'no, the defective rules are discussed in Robots of Dawn where R. Daniel Oliver discovered the Zeroth Law :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the Star Trek "prime directives" were also a load of crap - even Captain James Tiberius Kirk was a genocidal disregarder of those directives'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'well robots never violated the laws.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'the defect was in the ambiguity of the situation.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I just had a shocking insight of what I'm like on the other side of the screen drunk .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'so R.Oliver came up with the solution. He decided that a robot could violate the first law as long as humanity as a whole benefited.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'the zeroth law :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a short scifi story where a robot mulls over the three rules of robots - was a robot torpedo designed to seek out and kill - unsure of the author'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'the movie makes an allusion to the zeroth law, though I think it was accidental, the "hero" robot did violate the first law.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'but he was defective :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the end justifies the means ... interesting .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'He was made that way'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'not quite, see the zeroth law allows a robot do deal with someone like Hitler.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'there are no "laws of robots" - robots do what they are programmed to do (per the hardware and software etcetera)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'the first law doesn't allow the robot to do anything but stand there. R. Daniel Oliver would kill Hitler.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'but was hitler acting in the best interest of mankind ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'no, that's the point, but the first law doesn't make any distinction.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'by whos definition ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'by R. Daniel Oliver's definition :) He discovered the law.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'you got to read the book.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and self determination is born :) .. skynet/matrix scenarios .. lol as a warm blooded organic I'm watching my back :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the Saberhagen "Berserker" series was a gruesom-humorous rebuttal of the "laws of robots"  -  Berserker robots sought to kill and exterminate all life (heheheh)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'and Yes ! I do have to read further in the series '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'well, the terminatior series was definitely anti-law :) and so was robocop :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Those robot makers were illiterate'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'do you realize that R.D.O lived to be 20K+ years old?'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailDay Anaristos: 'he took a licking but kept on ticking :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'sadly I have yet to read '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'pet seiries for you Anar ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, I read all the books at once and, though I don't read many short stories, I also read those. So yeah, a favored series. But not my pet one.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't think I have one.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I like the Revelation Space books by Raynolds.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'another favorite of my is Keith Laumer.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I've not read then lol so busy catching up on older culture so glad that modern is nothing i'm missing out on '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a plausible favorite scifi series was "Tales of Known Space" by Larry Niven (and Jerry Pournelle occasionally)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'in Revelation Space there is this lighthugger ship named Nostalgia for Infinity. I thought that was a great name for a ship :) '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Oh that does Rock !'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it really does :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'just reset my title :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'heh, ok :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'when did art go wrong ? 70-80's ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't know. I like Rococo :) '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '90's .. can't think of anything good comming outa the 90's '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'well, Imperssionism and Post-Impressionism really. Very partial to Cubism.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Dali and Picasso were the last of the good ones :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I love Duhrer Melancholia is one of my fav drawings but yeah Monet is pretty Turner is Great with light and drama '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'but art more generally culture I guess I'm saying , when did it start being just a saleable thing and not self expression .. 90's I think '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: '<---might have a vested interest in 80's metal :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'a convo for another day perhaps :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'great that this chann is alive and populated appropriately :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I have a hard time telling Turner and Constable appart, but I manage :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'constable is more pastoral Turner is Epic !'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'clear bias :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, Turner is Mr. Seascape :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Turner is all about light'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ok, I get it that you like him :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'David always amazed me, his paintings had the quality of photographs.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'David ?  unfamiliar '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'pronounced Dah-vihd'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'NCIS viewer, eh'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'he painted The Death of Marat-Sade'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'i recognise the hewbrew would be spelt Daleth Vau Daleth form of David .. you have a link to the picture ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/his/CoreArt/art/neocl_dav_marat.html'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I have to go afk for about 40 minutes, unfortunately.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'wow thanks !'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'go well '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'are "Ayn Rand" books worth reading '
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'was "Atlas Shrugged" made into a movie yet - perhaps some coles/Crib/Cliff notes may provide a synopsis'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'what an author looked like irl influences whether a book is worth reading, or a movie is worth watching.'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so a fat obese author likely wrote crap'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'i've rejected authors photographed with a lit cancerstick'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'however, maybe those great literary works (attributed to an author) were written before the said author degenerated into a cancerstick-polluting alcohol-tipsy visibly-overweight eyesore'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'that an author degenerated casts aspersions onto the earlier literary works by that author'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'discriminating against people because they smoke, what a strange approach'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'fatties are next'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'people always discriminate against each other, just pick denomination'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we could discriminate against fat people, USA would be screwed'
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zela discriminates against tvseries and movies with obese eyesore actors 
T3/r7/2014-12-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zela discriminates against products advertised by obese eyesore actors
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, i think i'll choose to discriminate against the establshment, authoritarianism, stupid and/or greedy people, and police who are only 'enforcing the law''
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'are you sure its called discriminate and not personal grudge?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'call it 'justifiable discrimination''
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can you even have a personal grudge against entire groups/classes of people? It's hardly personal, is it?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'its personal not because of who its aimed at'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is it a personal grudge then?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I suppose you could have a grudge against a large number of people for personal reasons, but it certainly lacks... intimacy.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, rhavage, i don't support the "personal grudge" thing'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'one person does something to anther, resulting the victim to hate not the person but whole group'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yes, I can definitely see that, Walad'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'not that its very logical'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, well i can happily announce that the source of my discrimination is not because of what one person has done to another'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is the purpose of discrimination?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'reinforcing your sense of superiority'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, that's a description of one of it's results'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in essence, isn't it a deliberately unequal treatment of people designed to effect some kind of change?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take positive discrimination for example'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Majic, I'd be more inclined to say that it's trying to invent a sense of superiority rather than reinforcing it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'effect change? in many cases I believe it's to forestall change.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'for example, jim crow laws'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'forestalling change is the change that was seek'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Maybe not so much effect change as forestall it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'oooh, nice timing, heh'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'forestall a coming change and causing a change is the same thing, it's moving the outcome from one place to another'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'even to revert backwards is to change '
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'and take that outcome out of your pocket!'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I would disagree that preventing change is the same thing as seeking change.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'repeating your opinion does not make it more right.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'That is proposterous'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada boggles at Dispel Majic.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it usually works for me..'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if action y was going to happen and instead your activity leads to action y not happening, then you have made a change'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'It only just occurred to me that I have no idea what this conversation is about -- what it's intended to apply to.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no, you haven't, you've prevented a change -- you have altered the course of events, for sure'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't that just depend on your origin?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'frame of reference'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way, it seems we agree, just not on terminology'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so returning to the original point then, it's not a personal grudge because it's not personal, and it has an attached agenda that is in search of a specific outcome'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'One might argue that your list includes >95% of people :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that were true, then the world is doomed'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic sniggers at Tinada's actions.  Maybe you should REPORT the idjit.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the world is doomed :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the world is doomed regardless'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'll make sure to be short insurance companies before that happens'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'you mean it was doomed since the moment spark of big bang happened?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yes, walad'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'well in that sense. but its not going to happen soonish'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'most people are (at least functionally) stupid, and that isn't likely to change until someone rewrites the "education" system'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'but why you think that should be changed (like someone rewriting educational system)?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are lots of things to change'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'society does not need everyone to be a genius'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a bit like asking "what's it all about then?"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think we have massive problems with overpopulation and massive problems with the way we are governed'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there's a difference between not being a genius and being plumb stupid -- and there are some geniuses who are fucking stupid. '
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'there is a niche in society for plumb stupid people too'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'and they do the work you probably would not do'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'yeah...in prison'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh, you are misunderstanding what I mean by plumb stupid.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'thats slightly different take on "stupid people" :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I am not talking about the people who do things like sweep the streets or whatever.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'nod, i guess'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'rather I'm referring to the people who do shit like buy an iphone they can't afford and then have to beg the neighbors for food for their kids'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'but it was about educational system'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when i refered to stupid people it was about wilfully stupid people, it wasn't referring to IQ. I work with dozens of PHD post grads, there are plenty of them that are stupid'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, tigernuts's definition is the one I was using as well.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In my opinion, the chief functions of the school system are (a) storage, (b) academic standardization at a mediocre level, (c) ensuring that only a tiny minority retain active learning interests outside their chosen specializations and (d) various more or less serious types of psychological damage to individuals that enable the economy as we know it to keep functioning.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also apparently some learning takes place'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'storage?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'but no child will be left behind'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'how about learing to integrate in society, like interacting with people?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'can't have kids running around when mom (and possibly dad, if you are living in that sort of outmoded relic of the past) is at work'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Walad.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'society isn't stratified by age :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I have known home schooled students that were very integrated into society, and some which were failed by their parents'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and a school is not a good way to teach that anyway ... hell, at the school my friend's kid used to attend they banned talking at lunch because the kids only had 20 minutes for lunch and if they talked they couldn't eat. '
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'all that that school was teaching societally is sit down, shut up, follow the rules, and "life sucks"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also "things don't make sense"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that falls under "life sucks" I think :D'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'but well, aint it true'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's true, but it doesn't take 8 hours a day for 13 years to teach that'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'we don't need schools anymore, kids can learn all sorts of shit on the internet, and there is no need to know how to write if there is ctrl-c and ctrl-v'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Those TPS reports don't make themselves.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'and no need for math because we have calculators in iphones!'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'dmnd str8'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately that's true and as a result, we have the 'economists' in charge of our countries that we deserve'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a calculator is useless if you don't have a rough idea what the answer should have been.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what? you mean if my calculator tells me that the mortgage payment on a 400k mortgage is 5.62 a month I shouldn't believe them?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'them -> it'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'well that doesn't matyter, if they give you a loan, it is their calculator that is wrong'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least not until the FRS has lowered interest rates a bit more'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic snickers with Tinada about their shared secret.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stupid people don't care, they don't even care if they can afford it'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'society will bail them out'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lucky to get rates of 5.29% here'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'give it another couple of years of "recovery" and I'm sure you'll see lower rates :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, we won't'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're going the other direction'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police in Wisconsin are expecting residents to consent to warrantless searches of their homes to look for guns'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'in my opinion civilians should not have access to firearms'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think if they tried that here (we don't tend to have guns) they'd be laughed off the property'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wholeheartedly agree, Walad, provided that the government and it's workers also don't have access to firearms'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Walad, go preach that in Israel'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'what about israel?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be wiped off the face of the map'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'also i must say that in israel, MOST of population does army service'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'for few years'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'every citizen is supposed to be armed and ready for action'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure where that's even going, Walad, why does being a veteran change the boundaries of the argument?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'also'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'i never seen anyone armed in isreal, aside from soldiers and police'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'and i remember checks in shops for carried weapons. civilians dont have those'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people don't carry around weapons in the UK either, doesn't change the parameters of the argument'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the leaders are arrogant in the UK - they do not fear the unarmed sheeple'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the police are not habitually armed here, Zela, and there are still some legal firearms about - shotguns mainly'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however i'm totally against police here being armed, even with tasers'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'likely owned by the respectable officially-approved "gentry"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it tends to be, yes, land-owners who can justify a need for one'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'slowly being grandfathered out, just like gun laws in the US will be'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'yes, of couse they can (wink wink)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'how land owner justify the need for firearms?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the USA populace must remain heavily armed'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'difference being, our police where -never- armed'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your police were always armed, and now they tend to be militarised and run centrally from DC'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so that's something you can fix'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here, i'd just settle for the return of the premise of "innocent until proven guilty", policing by consent to protect people and their property from the misdeeds of others (and not as a law enforecment and thug squad for the establishment) - an end to arbitrary police powers and blanket surveillance'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'think defending sheep from marauding dogs, coyotes, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Poland in pre-WWII was "disarmed"  -- they paid a heavy price -- plus the "polish jokes" ("the how stupid are the ...") '
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'hate to tell you, but those polish jokes pre-date ww2 by a long shot.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the establishment here pose a much bigger threat to people's life and wellbeing here than other people'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'WWII reinforced the stereotype'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'policing here is a fairly high priority to fix, possibly not the highest though'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's worrying, but not terrifying, not a cause for immediate riot'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Majic, i doubt you are older than 75 (born before WWII), so what you are saying is likely parroted'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your priorities in the US might be a bit different, given all that's going on in the name of fighting terror set against a backdrop of a country where you're more than 10 times more likely to die at the hands of a policeman than you are at the hands of a jihadist'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic boggles at Zela.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I realize this may be new information to you, but there are such things as books, many of which were published before 1945.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'recent killings of black people aren't doing your law enforcement any favours'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'books are a conspiracy theory, Majic, there is only the facts that the government gives'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from approved texts that the government has deemed contain correct facts'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think economic reform would still be top of my list of things to sort out here'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cost of living crisis, housing shortages, overtaxation, national debt'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'that's what you get when you put your faith in pseudo economics'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'may be difficult these days (of misguided politically-correct censorship) to buy or to access those pre1945 books describing detailed reasons for prejudices and stereotypes'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think it's baser than that, Marikk, politicians do what a) gives them personally more wealth, b) shores up the establishment, and c) is just enough to bribe people to vote for them again next time'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any economics input into it, pseudo or not, is secondary'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Economics is real enough, but current understanding/models struggles with outperforming random walk/naive predictions/monkeys throwing darts at walls'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'much like climate science, really'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'pre-1939'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'economics fails because the systems that their ultra-simplified models are based on are 200 years out of date. They just don't work in a connected, global world'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you ask "which school of economics is right?" the correct answer would be "All of them, none of them"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The mainstream keynesian/neo-liberal mix is "right" because it is most mathematical and maths = true. Reality is, however, frequently wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada crosses his arms and nods slowly and sagely.
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'printing money and giving it to banks, or printing money and buying your own bonds is not Keynesian, even though the political left seems to think it is'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'But you can't teach qualitative understanding (or indeed too complex maths) inside the current paradigm and schooling system.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'critical thinking'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes that can really only come from experience'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'heh, those British(?) fiction documentary movies describing the events of WWII -- portrayed by modern actors -- rally round the Union Jack, children, and sing the national anthem'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'that they even made a movie "The King's Speech"  -- unbelievable and a waste of film'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes that can really only come from experience'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was exactly 1 element of truth in "The King's Speech"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts, you saying "The King's Speech" was a propaganda "cock&bull" movie'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but much like his daughter, Elizabeth II, George VI was a gutless fraud who fell well short in his official capacity'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less propaganda, more just an excuse to fleece simpleton Americans of cinema-going fees because it involved an aristocracy they never had (and for good reason)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see downtown abbey'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'downton even'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however the fuck it's spelled'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Tristram Shandy: a Cock & Bull Story" - an inventive adaptation of the notoriously unfilmable British comic novel "The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman" written by Laurence Stern.'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Laurence Sterne'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the movie was "unfilmable", yet they filmed the movie - maybe getting around the British censors was the difficulty'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our film censors weren't that bad, "Confessions of a Window Cleaner" is worth a look if you want a giggle'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is it that someone who stole a $5 case of water from a supermarket during 2010 troubles was jailed for 6 months, but a banker who stole $5m in fraud walks free?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '#2tierjustice'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sorta like how ... kill a man, you're a murderer ... kill many, you're a conquerer ... kill them all, you're a god'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're currently burning disc jockeys from the 70s here for various sexual assaults/rapes'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, huge paedophile ring in the highest echelons of government in the 80s, even reputedly going to the royal family - the documents got "Lost"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess really, it's the class war playing out here in the UK in much the same way as the race war is being played out in the US'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just we're all too poor and controlled to make a fuss about it'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the 1970's were 35 to 44 years ago -- no statute of limitations of hearsay (?)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently there's no statute of limitation for sexual assault/rape'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shisho: 'There is, but a lot of states have a provision from where you remember it.  Like if you blocked it out for years'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'an opportunity for perjury and gainsay of freudian slips, perhaps extorted by torture and intimidation, '
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm rather worried about the current witchhunt against former celebrities on sex charges'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'are the Beatles and Rolling Stones okay'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so far'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only takes one to break through'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'what, no recanting freudian slips of tongue (while drunk or coshered)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that irrespective of the real cases of wrongdoing there'll be those who were under 16 at the time and threw themselves at celebrities and got takena advantage of'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is it easy to tell apart the cases 40-50 years on?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'those 16 year olds are in their 50s these days'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, and probably hard up - a nice court settlement sets them up for life'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'ah, an attempt at legalised oextortion'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretend they weren't celebrity whores back in the day and gush about how they were taken advantage of'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'polygraph and book em Dano (for fraud)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'polygraph is not a reliable method of determining guilt'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the latest modern science is fairly accurate at determining what the suspect believes'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what the subject believes may not be the truth'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '(citation needed)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see environmental science and AGW'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'but the UK is likely "archaic", especially with the urge to protect the depraved upperclass'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not surprising, the upper class, depraved or not, are still in charge'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'modern science is able to detect what the suspect was exposed to -- somebody innocent won't be with incriminating information (but somebody extremely informed by looking at photographs of the crime scenes may be privy to that information)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i refer to them in all talks as "the establishment" because upper-class isn't an accurate descriptor - there are plenty of 'upper class' people who are not part of the establishment, or who are even anti-establishment, who aren't rich'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'likewise there are plenty in the establishment that are not traditional members of the upper class, maybe got power through their vocation (law, finance etc)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that were true, there'd be no need for trials or policework'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'upperclass in Canada and the USA usually means "rich class" (as there is no aristocracy in the USA)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so rich mobsters are "rich class" and "upper class"'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I want to pitch this idea about an act, the father....'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'in Canada, there is that "British descendancy" that forms a self-appointed upper-elite that seeks to run things'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'fortunately though, Canada is socialist, and the lower class peons are happy'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an act?'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Canada also has an absurdly low population density, which does matter'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were claiming today in the news that the air pollution in the UK is now so bad that it's health impacts are comparable with smoking'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'air pollution from what'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vehicle fumes and industry, though they're blaming vehicle fumes mostly'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what you get for allowing unconstrained immigration and neglect traffic infrastructure and urban mass transit'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'unregulated industry produces far deadlier fumes'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the immigration into the UK was an extremely bad mistake'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'especially if the immigrants are from countries where squalor is the norm'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most politicans and businesses are still trying to complain mass uncontrolled immigration into the UK was a good thing'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly because it meant they could import cheap labour'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a *few* vocal politicians and businessmen -- with others nodding lipservice -- with misguided politically-correct censorship suppressing opposing opinions'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you can see where it goes, there is one 'upstart' political party in the UK wants to leave the EU and they immediately get branded as racist'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being branded racist or a qook if you go against the mainstream of political opinion, if you're in the USA you probably know how that works :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(greedy callous) businessmen and politicians used to laud the use of children working in the dirty mines '
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'UK decent citizens require to chip at the wrong established opinions'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(and using faulty arguments won't likely be effective)'
T3/r7/2014-12-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'until they deal with immigration/tax payers subsidising corporate wealth, nothing will improve for the UK'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'publication of the report on CIA torture didn't do the USA's reputation a great deal of good'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Given the pressure of the various situations governments go through, it doesn't seem very surprising to me that they would do something like that.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Not that that makes it right...'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't surprise me because i have an extremely low opinion of them, but it's still illegal, immoral, pointless, and as you say, not right'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I have a feeling that's pretty unanymous. Dunno how to argue that point.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the Rino's will'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Is there any arguably action that the CIA has taken that is even arguably positive?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'legal action? probably'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Woops, take out the first arguably. Typing on a phone.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having said that, they also bring drugs into the USA to fund their black projects, and actively make the US public less safe by their foreign policy decisions'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be reeled in, that's for certain'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, i'd pull the CIA apart and roll them into military intelligence'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like i'd gut the NSA and roll it into the FBI'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'It's hard for me to really form an opinion about such a large entity. The things that go wrong seem to be the only things I see.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, you have to first accept that the middle east security problems are a direct result of US foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the trouble in Ukraine is a result of US foreign policy'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only trouble that isn't is the SOuth CHina sea, that's a result of the western world's economic policy'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(included in the western world, and predominant among them is the USA)'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but don't worry, i still mostly love you all :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as i'm not responsible for the fuckwits in charge of my country, you're not responsible for yours'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Is there any action being taken to change the foreign policy? Sorry, I've only recently started following this kind of thing.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, Rand Paul might wind it in a bit, but his chances of being getting the GOP nomination when he's clearly running contrary to the establishment is zero'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the other GOP and Democrat candidates are under the thumb'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Even if anybody wanted to, who would need to get the ball rolling?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'american revolution might help'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'That's pretty rough, so many of us depend on things the way they are.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'failing that, nothing short of a catastrophic event or thermonuclear war is likely to change it'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, suck it up, jackboots are in your future'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I guess the other option is to flee the nation. I'm not a big fan of what they're doing and it's looking less and less unappealing.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's globalism, Uaird, there's nowhere to go'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well atleast there's a pretty strong lag in some places.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, the fact that there's nowhere to hide, nowhere to run means eventually humanity is going to have to confront it'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'What do you think is the most probable outcome?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know. i've spent my whole life having to lower my expectations of just about everything'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people are lazy or wilfully stupid. I personally think we're fucked and destined to live a life of pseudo-slavery'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern equivalent of a police state where everything (which is not much) is provided by the state, where the only choices are fatuous (celebrity culture, choice of colours)'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well, I guess depending on your outlook, we're all slaves to ourselves.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll find what you can do, what you can say, what you can think will be highly regulated by the state'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well I'm sure a big part of our problem is our dependence on society. That goes for everybody.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'It's pretty difficult to change something everybody depends on.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'generally the older generation won't get involved because they're frightened of losing what they've robbed from the future generations, and the younger generation won't do anything because they don't know any better, and are so taken by consumerism and being trendy and gay that they couldn't give a shit that they're serfs'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and so here i am stuck in the middle with you'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the best case scenario? massive asteroid strike causing catastropic loss of life, massive disturbance to technology and a fundamental breakdown of centralised authority'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will localise and be forced to take responsibility for their existence'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well at least we won't have to deal with radiation of our own nuclear warheads that way.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that doesn't fill you with hope, then good - it shouldn't'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern nukes don't have as much fallout as the 1950s ones'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty safe after a couple of years'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I'm not entirely certain I want to know the kind of damage we could do.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless of course you deliberately destabilise middle east countries so that dirty nukes get into the hands of lunatics. . . woops'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well, if everything goes to hell, I just hope I'll be off somewhere in the middle of the forest in a cabin :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are it won't, so you're stuffed like the rest of u'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'us*'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've followed politics, geopolitics, and economics quite closely for some time. I'm afraid there is no real hop'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope*'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best you can do is try and find your own little bit of countryside and hope the rest of the world fucks off and leaves you alone'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are that won't happen either'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well, there's still some possibility that it'll just be heavily stressed throughout the remainder of my years. That's not exactly appealing either though.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty much a given, after all, you're a resource to be milked as hard as possible'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I think I'd rather enjoy living in the middle of the forest anyway, maybe I should do that anyway, and give no regard to the rest of the world.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'But I'm sure someone would come pester me about land or something.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd be taxed in the first instance, then run off the land by the government in the second'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is government policy in both the US and UK to ban people from living in the countryside and move everyone to megacities under a UN long term planning regime called "Agenda 21"'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Or just hope no one finds me, I guess.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're using property taxes, anti-pollution regulation, fake environmentalism, artificial scarcity of housing, building regs'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Society is built to the average person, and seems to ignore the outer ends. Makes me sad.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'But I can't say I don't understand why.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'individuality is racist, you must conform'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not deliberately trying to sound negative, but it's not in anyone's interests to try and lie about reality. We are where we are, things are going where they are going. Far better to be aware and face the future forewarned than to stagger into it oblivious'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well, they make the laws for the majority, then force it to apply to everyone. If it's not profitable to selectively do it, they probably won't.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they make laws for the benefit of the establishment and apply them unequally'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why people who steal groceries go to jail and bankers that defraud us of billions of dollars go free'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'And yeah, I get it. I've always liked the saying about preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. Just try not to muddle your outlook with either.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'That doesn't make any of the three less relevant.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the three?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'The worst of the past, the best of the future, and your current outlook.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Maybe that was a little vague, sorry.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'esoteric'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Yeah, I do that accidentally sometimes.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a great fan of esoteric, philosophic maybe, big picture maybe'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bullshit is fine provided it's relevent and meaningful'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Maybe I put it the wrong way. I'm trying to say that while you should prepare for the worst, and hope for the best, you shouldn't actually believe the best/worst is the reality.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're talking about the future, of course it isn't reality'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why i'm angry about being forced to pay into a work based pension that i know won't be there by the time i want to draw on it'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Some people like to believe their idea of the future is perfect. I just believe that's a bit of a mistake.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Not saying that applies to you necessarily, but I mean how this affects everybody in society.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'naivity'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or wilful ignorance of the world about them'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I was trying to avoid those words, but yes.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe a human need to ignore reality because it's scarey'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no need to be kind, we all know most people in the world are medically retarded'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I like to think it's a way of coping. Being strong can be painful too.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'But once again, that doesnt make it right.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't make what right?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'naivety'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does for them, they outvote you'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Well, everyone tries to confuse optimism with a healthy mindset, but sometimes leads them into being naive. That's what I think, at least.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an entirely rational deduction '
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'And what's your opinion on it?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could like wise argue that being pessimistic constantly leads to defeatism'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my opinion is both are true, but not inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I think everyone has their own idea of what healthy is, and most of the time strive for that. That's why I think false optomism would be more relevant.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Because that's what they're more comfortable projecting.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with pessimism you can back it up with facts, point to things that are going wrong and reasons why. Far harder to achieve that with optomism'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'That's a pretty good point, but I don't think much of anyone will listen to what they think is... well, scary. Those that do will likely be labelled.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, and they are :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'just using the word label has earned you a label'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'There's a lot of labels. Hi Marikk.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'So Tigernuts, any other things you wanna talk about? I have time to kill.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll speak to any subject, i'm not fussy, not about for long'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Any parts of Aardwolf you don't like or think are controversial?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the game?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Why not? '
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Yes, the game.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm mostly retired from the game, so have no opinion'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'it depends on what you consider to be controversial'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'games in general are moving away from having any point, competitive or otherwise, and becoming just inane pointless grinds like Facebook and Tablet games'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'this game wasn't created in a world so politically correct as it is now'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aardwolf hasn't been immune from this trend'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'What do you guys think about the lack of forced RP?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mael: 'i tried a forced rp mud once...not fun at all'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'forced RP should never play a part in a game'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'I'd say there are those who will always rp and that it doesn't have to be forced'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I kind of like the idea because it contributes to the escapism factor of the game. On the other hand, it can be kind of daunting and tiring at times.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'I think that RP could be encouraged'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but you'd only be appealing to a small base of players. Dwindling at that'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mael: 'we have a specific channel for those people :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'those people lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they have an area with lepers just for Role play'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mael: 'yep!'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'Dunno, it seems kind of weird as an outsider, but I feel I can understand it because it just kinda adds to the immersion.'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i prefer books for that kind of fiction'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i've had many fond memories role playing'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but there is a place and time and you have to know how to use your surroundings to your advantage'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'How do you feel about quests being glorified hits?'
T3/r7/2014-12-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uaird: 'I'd say they lacked variety, but that's what goals and tasks are for.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'interesting to discover that a year or so ago, Massacheuttses state government got so pissed off with nosey journalists, cold case hunters, and conspiracy theorists costing them a fortune in time, money, and face pointing out frauds and descrepancies in their handling of high profile murder cases that they passed a law exempting all details of homicides from FOIA requests and making it a Felony for anyone to release said data without authorisation'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'London Metropolitan police could use such a law, since they're permanently mired in fraud and corruption cases'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(if that is factual) Massachusetts is extremely corrupt'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is factual'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(corrupt callous depraved individuals and cohorts in) the Massachussetts state government are violating the peoples rights to fair and decent justice'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the fact that such extremely bad laws are being passed in the USA bodes an extremely ill omen (to and against the USA)'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i can't argue with that'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'is the FoIA at the Federal level'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps state officials that pass wicked laws in breach (of trust) of decent Federal laws may be convicted fined and jailed at the Federal level'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'be fun to see that those in the Massachussets government that voted for and passed that wicked law be kicked out of government office and thrown in jail'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'what law?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'debate -h 13'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'very seldom do people take true responsability for their actions. That is the majority of the problem with society in my eyes. '
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'tsk, sight-impaired opinions'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(grasshopper requires to learn more)'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'chances are one of two things will happen'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'you'll keep whining about the government until things do start to change for the better'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'chip chip chip'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'or you'll get charged with treason when obama becomes king '
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'hrm, another apprentice Troll'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently there is a company working with the US government and Google to censor Youtube against any videos that are... unhelpful to keeping the 'record' straight'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'called the Honr network'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'wow'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people affected are having videos removed without reason and without any kind of response or challenge'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just been reading about it because a documentary i was watching last night, went to finish it tonight and it was gone and the google+ equivalent of a shitstorm had brewed over it'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that's the problem with centralised government-run platforms'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'which documentary'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and PirateBay was taken down this week, too'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was a documentary called "We need to talk.." about Adam Lanza/Sandy Hook'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i get the impression they didn't like having pointed out the hundreds of millions of dollars that were sucked upas a result of the incident to use for a wholly political agenda'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, if you can find it, it's a pretty informative bit of work that shows up some of the hilarious fuckups that were made after the incident and how it has been worked like a cheap whore by the establishment for their agenda, along with some of the odder things that form the basis of some of the wackier conspiracy theories surrounding it'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'sounds very interesting'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but where to watch it if they took it down?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can still download it direct from the makers, but it's damn near 2gig'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, must be a slow news day, BBC's head story is that 50% of UK's women are on prescription meds'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'does that include the contraceptive pill?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's prescribed for a medical reason rather than just for contraception'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're wondering, the figure for men is a little over 40%'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'so they walked around a hospital and asked a hundred people if they were on drugs lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, we have a national health service, they just delved into the records'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have to realise that you can't get medication here without the NHS saying so'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'wow'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, you didn't realise that? I thought Americans all cum in their pants at the thought of single payer government healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Joan Rivers is talking from the grave ?!? '
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well the system is in place'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what system?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'Healthcare'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK healthcare system is in place and about to collapse'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is insufficient funds for it, so they keep privatising bits of it off and making people wait longer and longer for treatment in the hope they die before receiving it'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'hrm, another apprentice chicken little'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it might be the most efficient healthcare system in the world cost vs outcomes, but it's like a japanese concetration camp survivor'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and for reference, it costs the average earner ($40k/yr) around $500 a month'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well i'm sure the crap food supply will only hasten things in that department'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, well we hate GMO here, but the government is set upon signing up to TTIP which will force the laws preventing GMO food be torn down and we'll be forcefed the same shit that's killing you lot'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know what TTIP is?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'some type of agreement I take it'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'probably the latest UE or UN brainchild'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Transatlantic trade agreement - masquerading as a free trade agreement, it allows multinational corporations to sue sovereign governments if any laws they have, or pass negatively impact their profits. These suits will be heard in a secret corporate court, heard by corporation-appointed judges. The outcomes are legally binding'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are also, allegedly, parts restricting the freedom of the Internet'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'oh cool'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as the end of net neutrality, the rolling in of Internet ID, synchronisation of certain environmental regulations (lowering them siginificantly in the EU) and so on'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'predictable '
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"cool" isn't an adjective i'd use to describe it, "diabolical" might be closer'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'predictable works'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'gonna be a whole bunch of hurtin people. and a bunch of i told ya so's pretty soon'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it -may- not come to pass, the natives in Europe are getting restless. Apparently some of their youth is a little less gutless and witless compared to our own'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might be because their countries were poor in living memory'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they still remember what authoritarianism and soviet socialism looks like'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'oh unrest is definetly on the rise'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'and in some very interesting places'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the places that don't really help us'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'yeah pretty much'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we really need London and DC on fire, politically speaking'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '0h 4'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well lots of people are being manipulated'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'too worried about "waking" people up rather then finding other people who are already awake'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't talk to that, i'm not interested in waking people up'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well i can't speak for everyone'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but imo a lot of people are wasting their time and energy on fruitless ventures'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to a certain extent they need to, since they're being pressed from above'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as the people being censored and threatened that i mentioned earlier'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well who knows what kind of guidance they've been getting from their computers'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'check out a book called IBM and the holocaust. you can youtube the authors videos too'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'what they were doing back in WWII with computers..can only picture what they are doing now'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ibm? nothing, they're shutting themselves down and liquidating the company'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having moved onto other things'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'should have been specific'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i was talking governmental use of computers'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the Germans like recordkeeping and IBM supplied a recordkeeping product'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'for warfare'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they liked moving computers in before they invaded'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'just so they knew what they were dealing with'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'IBM were supposed to put Microsoft out of business'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'says who?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they collaborated on WIndows 95'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'irrelevant'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'IBM was in a position to destroy Microsoft'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what evidence is there to suggest that they were "supposed" to destroy Microsoft?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people say Steve Jobs died too soon, you could say it was a fitting metaphor for the battery life of an iphone'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'steve jobs and steve jobs spent too much time sucking up to the same people '
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'meant steve jobs and bill gates'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i'm more saddened that they found a way to retard linux ie android'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'interesting discussion.  i'll just drop my 2 cents.  there are ways to grow better food and more per acre.  where "better" means more nutritious, no pesticides/herbicides.  BUT it takes skilled labor.  checkout "permaculture".  not really a solution to all you've been debating.  but it's a step in right direction for people taking care of themselves - instead of relying on some anonymous institution feeding them cheap marked-up garbage.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'more food --> more breeding humans --> more ecocide'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'less food --> less breeding humans --> less ecocide'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'you can argue that.  clearly any real ecosytem has some carrying limit.  "permaculture" greatly reduces the impact - in fact practice inherently incorporates health of the environment, though it is transformative.  if you hate transformation then I guess you could propose global genocide.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Hail, the Four Horsemen of the Apocalype!   pestilence! famine! war! death!'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i would argue: "conventional agriculture / industry / etc" -> some environmental damage.  full on permaculture -> healthy environment.  no people?  well - if you like places like the Sahara desert then that's what nature will give you.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i'm not particularly fond of GMO food as implemented, though I am not opposed in theory.  the issue with current implementation is it is usaually in support of non-sustainable ag practices that tend to deplete/ruin the very soils we depend on for food.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'man likely caused the Sahara desert   -- man caused the dust bowls of the USA'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'then there are the unknown and potentially adverse impacts on human health from the novel chemicals introduced into the food supply.  a quick review of the last century shows how well we as a species are at predicting the effects of our activities.  checkout radioactive water, thalomide, toxic metals in cosmetics, excessive x-rays of the 1900s, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Zela - I recommend reading about the Sahara.  you'll find competent scientists have unearthed/investigated the causes of the Sahara in some depth.  man has contributed (yay for lamo conventional ag) but is far the fundamental cause.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'far *from* the fundamental cause'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"competent scientists"  seems an oxymoron or contradictory concept in some topics'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"global warming"  "climate change"  "Creationism"'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'perhaps.  I add the adjective for clarity.  science, well performed, is a great way to avoid fooling ourselves about the nature of reality.  but it can be damaged by lying/incompentence.  as for the Sahara, google is your friend.  it goes through long cycles of desert behavior over the millenia.  human involvement on scale is comparatively recent'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they found out how much santa claus would make'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'if he were real'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government's don't like people making their own food'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'independent people are difficult to control/use'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'perhaps.  i'd rather say people who like power first and foremost, like having power over others.  whether they do so from a government role or some other doesn't seem to matter to much to them.  just results.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'there's actions each person can take in day to day life to avoid encouraging those who suffer from power-lust to screw things up.'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like shooting them?'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts, get the address of Bill Gates, take a camera'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'join the Paparazzi fan club'
T3/r7/2014-12-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Paparazzi are annoying'
T3/r7/2014-12-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-12-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Aardwolf contains the set of all sets.  Explain.'
T3/r7/2014-12-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'why can't school shooters just start with themselves? wtf is to be gained?'
T3/r7/2014-12-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i blame "worms"'
T3/r7/2014-12-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its fun to blow up the opponent but it's funnier to blow up yourself'
T3/r7/2014-12-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'heh, that's true.'
T3/r7/2014-12-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'its fun to blow up both and everything'
T3/r7/2014-12-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If you're going to play in Texas, you better have a fiddle in the band.'
T3/r7/2014-12-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Having your own lv 201x4 heal pot - worth it or not? Go.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'school shooters shoot up schools because they're pissed off with their childhood, and because fuckwit liberals and their owned media dedicate weeks of airtime to it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it was never reported, people wouldn't do it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'first of all it was because they had arms'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'that would not happen if they didnt'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'that's not fair. plenty of kids have guns, and only several of them shoot people'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'yes, but if no kids had guns, no kids would shoot anyone'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's interesting... plenty of kids have guns'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so you are saying that if I walk near some kinds the odds are that at least one is carry a weapon. I feel safer already.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so mom packs their lunch and a spare clip, don't leave home without it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and that's not what's wrong with society, what's wrong with society is that people don't think that as odd.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I don't leave the house unarmed , why would I ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and I am going home and slap my mom because she never gave me a gun.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'civilians should not be armed'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I have left my house unarmed all my life.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'people who leave their houses armed just in case, are paranoid enough to think that something is "in case" when it is not and there goes the collateral damage.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'how many times you been stabbed .. twice for me as a teenager .. it'll not happen again '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't go to places where people want to stab me.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'there is something wrong with your neirborhood or maybge people you interact if you have chance to get stabbed'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if you go into a rat hole you can't complain about being bitten by rats.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'nor cohabitation that rat hole (earth) now armed '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ah, so you go look for trouble, I understand now.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and if I happen to walk by and you think for some reason that I am a threat, "oops, my bad" will cover it when you find out you are wrong.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I grew up in Alice Springs Nothern Territory Australia .. stabwound capital of Australia '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and when you left you went to another  place where it was likely you would be stabbed again.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I got to go, be back in 45 ;)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'no I have trained 1 year Krav Maga  and pretty confident in my ability to negate a threat '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'no  , where I am now is pretty crime free , we don't have ice here yet .. but we still hahumans and so there is still a threat'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'you are one of most dangerous threats on the streets probably'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I am more well armored and perhaps more armed when I jog  . but not a threat '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'you are not human?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I am but not given to violence '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'one not given to violence would not carry a gun around'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I don't take a firearm to shoot ppl I take one because I might need it  .. this is a pretty base argument .. better to have it and not use is than need it and not have it .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'but if you might need it... you intend to shoot people?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'if I can't defeat a threat with my training then I will use it  . yes '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'there is different argument too.. if you dont have gun, you dont feel like superman and dont start looking for trouble when you walk the street'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'I've been down some bad streets and a gun wouldnt make me feel like a superman'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I feel like me , I will jog my usual route whenever I like and it's in a small town  thats pretty crime free , like I said there is no ice here yet  .. but I will defend myself if attacked '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'do people get crazy when the ice comes in? ... I don't live in a place that has snow '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'why they should'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'yeah ice changes places .. where I live most ppl are retirement age is pretty safe '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'ice speed meth whatever you call it has  destroyed small towns west of me .. but imo I reserve the right to wear kevlar and carry a sidearm  , I trust myself to only use it  when last resort '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'you roll with body armor on?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I jog with kevlar/lycra suit , yes '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'and you live in a good area?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I live in a small town  relatively crime free '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Thats slightly paranoid, or overly prepared I can't decide'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'is homemade  .. they don't just sell kevlar  where I am from so jogging int it I make continual improvements to the suit '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'if I'm paranoid idk .. I'm safe  fuck the rest '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Wow, thats rather nifty. Any concept pictures or like a diy you could point to?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'if you are  That interested you'll find a way  interesting how drone jets are incorperating kevlar in wing struts though '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Now to incorporate this into my stormtrooper costume'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'incorperate into your late night "I  can jog anywhere and be female" list costume .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Hmm, the yardage for Kevlar is a hell of a lot cheaper than I would've imagined'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'there are several types .. you only need something that'l protect you from 9mm short range and you'll need gel packs to spread the impact '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'What type of energy dispersal does you jogging suit provide?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'ahh'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get attacked on the streets of UK you're probably dead or in prison as a result'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such is the fucked up laws here'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ed sheeran, ginger haired testicle playing a guitar and singing'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm the US national debt could never be paid off without a catastrophic financial event'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'come collect..'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the moment you default the dollar becomes worthless'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'k.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it isn't a factor of collecting or not, once you've defaulted, none of your institutions can borrow money and nobody will sell you anything in dollars. If you're North Korea and are happy to be cannibals in order to remain self-sufficient, then you'll be fine, otherwise you'd be in trouble'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'good thing we are good at controlling assets in other countries'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's any concilation, UK has a debt in proportional terms just as bad as the USA, and the UK government is equally incompetent at dealing with it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you soon won't'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'we also have billions of dollars worth of equiptment,technology and infascrutcter we could sell'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'why you calling them incompetent? they are not paying it and not trying to'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'if it works, then why they should'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Japan has a debt that is 2x higher'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some will go as sovereign governments reclaim that property, others will be taken by force'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Japan has been in financial turmoil for decades'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'if everyone is in debt, biggest gun wins'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'global economies have been based on illusion for over 150 years, and it will continue to be that way....that is how credit works.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only tool they've got is inflation'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If we all used cash for everything....our economies would be less than half their current size, perhaps smaller.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, let's do that'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no thanks.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There would be less jobs, roads, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'but i cant buy as much stuff with cash'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less jobs and roads? surely that's a good thing, can't be any worse than they now are'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've got a helicopter and are independently wealthy, why would you care?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are millions of unfilled jobs in the US, because lazy americans wont get the education to fill them.  It is their own fault.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would they need to when you've got 30 million and climbing cheap mexicans to fill them?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't that why God made Mexicans?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'we need more h1b visa's to fill the roles..duh'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cheap mexicans dont maintain computer networks....they mow your grass.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure they do, Mexico/Eastern Europe have better IT infrastructure than we do'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: '...lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'yeah right.....have you EVER been to mexico?  They dont have anything that is better :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'maybe eastern euro based on size, but no way mexcio..'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'south america is slightly better than africa.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's fine, because the jobs aren't in IT and networking, they're in service sector'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'some countries in central america are ok, but nothing developed like western europe or north america excluding mexico.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means having someone foreign willing to work for a minimum wage that wasn't enough to live on 10 years ago let alone now is preferable'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i dont know why i always get sucked in.. i'm out'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Houston Texas has one of the fastest growing economies in the US, and the tech industry here is booming....not enough trained employees.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pay more'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Starting pay for network engineers is $70k'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'they pay fine, companies would rather hire h1b visa workers who job is tied to their citizenship than hire a college grad and train them'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you're probably poaching all the british ones, since you wouldn't earn that here'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chemical plants here are booming also.....Dow is spending $10 billion to upgrade their plants, and the others are also'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they need lots of workers with no experience, they will train.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hardly anyone applies.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is the problem with a booming economy....more jobs, not many decent people.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would people with no experience apply when they can vote democrat and live off the state?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'my house has trippled in value in the past 5 years.. about to sell before it caps out.. i'm getting a kick out of it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i dont work in houston but i live here, thinking of moving..its starting to suck'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, I sold my houses in houston last year....made 50% on what I paid for them.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'live in a small cabin on 500 acres in a small town....love it :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'now I live about 1.5 hours NE of houston, near lake livingston.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'surrounded by 18 prisons :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thought they were closing Texas prisons?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'is there really that many out there?? lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in other parts of the state they are, but they are moving the prisoners to the huntsville area.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Gruagach, they need them to house all the Black people they arrested over the last 30 years for minor drug offences'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, Huntsville TX is the center of texas prison system'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'drugs are bad,mmmkay'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'remember to take a towel'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'when new prisons are built, they build them in this area.....the state wants to keep them all in one place now.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'that stinks, if you go to jail it will be more likely to be far from home.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the unemployment rate around here is pretty low for able bodied adults....about 3%'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'My daughter is about to take a job with a prison here in NY State. Should be interesting.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact remains, UK and USA, both growing, but the damage is already done, the debt is unservicable without crippling changes'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'US debt is being paid for quite easily.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how much did the national debt reduce by this year then, Rizzer?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And it helps quite a bit when you have 200 billion more barrels of new oil that will save $500 billion a year.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'we just need to convince the politicians to keep going with the deficet reductions.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlikely to happen, Malkar'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even more unlikely in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'stop electing conservative republicans then :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the neocons have inflated the national deficit everytime they gained power.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'replace "neocons" with "politicians", Riz'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then it applies both in the USA and the UK'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'please, moderate democrats have reduced the deficit everytime they had power in the last 30 years.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'gridlock has also been ok for deficet'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it was dropping in the last 5 years from $1 trillion, to about $400 billion next year.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but now the neocons have power again, so expect the deficit to get bigger.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not over here they haven't, they only did it in the late 90s thanks to the dot com boom'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'm reminded of the great firesign theater's album, Everything You Know is Wrong. For some reason in the States, there is the widely held opinion that Republicans are the part of fiscal sensibility. But every economic reversal back to the Great Depression has occurred during a Republican administration. Dems are derisively viewed as "tax and spend," but the economy is routinely more robust with them holding the reigns.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'last election the Democrats lost becuase the quit the field.  Economy doing well despite global slowdown and the didn't campaign on it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Agreed, Malkar'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, most people consider democrats to be liberal thanks to the neocons, but most democrats are moderate....'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only a few really loud democrats are truly liberal.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people say the same about the Socialists vs the Conservatives here, but what actually happens is the socialists fuck it all up, and then conservatives come in and spend years fixing it, which makes them unpopular, so they get voted out and the cycle begins again'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and not all republicans are conservative....I have been a moderate republican for 24 years.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no liberal democrats, neither are they very democratic'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about your lovely DC mob that used the spending bill to overturn the DC legalisation of mary-jane vote?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about that for listening to your public'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Can't say that that made me very happy. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they didnt overturn anything, they just refused to allow federal money to be used in making it legal....'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what I don't understand is how you take away funding for not enforcing something.  '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'How I wish DC had genuine home rule. Make us a state, for the love of god.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'doing nothing probably doesn't cost anything.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DC works in a different way to other states, Malkar, on account of it not being a state'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yeah I know that.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, not "us" any longer. I live in NY State now.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'DC relies on federal money for everything.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'marijuana is bad for the general public  -- cocaine used to be legal until too many addicts abused the "freedom"'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They can use private money to regulate pot in DC if they want, just not federal money.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cocaine was only banned because pharmaceutical companies couldn't patent it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Marijuana has been legal in NL for many years and I don't see that lovely little country crumbling under drug abuse.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it ain't legal in NL, Rhavage'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'and they have a lot of trouble in NL :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not actually true, Walad'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'NL?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'weed is no more addictive than alcohol'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'some humans are immune to THC addiction, others are not'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Netherlands'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'It isn't? When I lived there from '03-'07, it sure looked legal. Especially considering that anyone could legally grow five plants for personal consumption. How much more legal does it need to be?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'some humans are resistant to fire-water addiction, others are not'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'So because some aren'te resisitant ban it for everybody?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Didnt NL make it illegal for tourists to buy pot ?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'THC addiction is nasty'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tried to, Riz. It's somewhat decriminalised, which isn't the same thing'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Then don't smoke pot, Zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it were legal then the UN and the EU would be shitting chunks all over them like they are USA and Uruguay'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pot legalization in the US is a tidal wave now...nothing is going to stop it...the feds will join the bandwagon eventually.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'legal pot threatens a medicinal monopoly that the industry have been lobbying/protecting for the best part of 80 years'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'genetically and or psychologically, i am iummune to THC addiction and immune to alcohol addiction '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good for you, Zela, then you are able to enjoy both without concern'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Tiger, I'm not understanding. When I went into a coffee shop in A'dam, why was I able to buy pot openly? Actually, in every damned town in NL that I was ever in. Which was a lot of 'em.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tolerated, Rhavage, legal grey area'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska made pot legal for the 2nd time......They were the first state to legalize pot until the feds forced them to make it illegal again, now they just makde it legal again.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sale of pot is illegal under international law, you see :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know, that law that USA and others ignore when it suits them, but goes to war if anyone else does so'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Dont grow pot in Texas though.....the state will literally throw the book at you and melt the key.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I have to say that I often miss NL. The most topographically uninteresting place on Earth, practically, but such a lovely little place. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'according to the global warming brigade, NL already sunk under 4m of seawater'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it's even less interesting now'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'The world's most energetic hydraulic engineers, the Dutch.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should have saved some energy and just invaded Belgium'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what sensible EUropeans do'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'New Orleans is going to turn its low areas into a new dump, fill it up 30 feet, then cover with 20 feet of dirt, and have a new city area for expensive homes.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NL could do that, UK already sends them tons of household waste'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'No, Tiger. That's the beauty of the Dutch. They don't overrun anybody. When they needed land in the mid 80s, they simply evicted the Zuider Zee and created the province of Flevoland (which always sounds to me like a theme park, heh)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'immunity to bad addictions springs from the intense dislike of unwanted adverse effects of those addictions'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so i don't drink alcoholic bevarages'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so i don't stink up with mind-damaging THC'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, you absolutely will never become alcoholic if you don't drink at all.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'beverages'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I enjoy moonshine....especially banana.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that surprises me, Zela, it looks to the outside observer that you are constantly 'stunk up' with mind-damaging THC'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and hopefully some peach or apple moonshine in a few years.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I pretty much only drink beer. A little wine with my gf from time to time, a gin and tonic even more rarely, but mainly beer.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll have your 500 acres nicked by the feds as set-aside before then, Rizzer'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'doubtful, the moonshine isnt made onsite.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'i used to like the taste of 60% alcohol added to a CocaCola drink, but i dislike the reduction in mental abilities even if temporary  - hrm, maybe sip, swill in the mouth and spit out, never swallow - yeah that's the ticket'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt you're going to see anything being fixed in the USA in the next 2 years'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'rum and coke is proably my fav though....any cheap rum works for me.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'real coke though, not diet.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'hmm, Benedictine liqueur, sip, savor, spit out.  rinse with Grand Marnier orange brandy, and spit out'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'of course adding a little rum to the eggnog is quite good.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i prefer a nice glass of grapefruit juice'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas grapefruits have too many seeds.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as do our oranges.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'rum to egg nog is disgusting -- you sound like an alcoholic'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of things are disgusting, but are perpetrated by those in power who should know better and given a pass by those who keep them there'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as torturing people, for a start'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Absolute vodka shots pinot noit chardonnay  chaser '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but we'll also mention fraud, deception, theft, and violence of war'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'no swallowing, spit out that alcoholic crud'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Zela, would it be ok with you if at least some of us adults enjoy a drink from time to time?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I swallow .. love not like  vodka that is :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'imebriated humans are disgusting'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are no alcoholics in my family, or drug addicts.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we almost had a drug addict, but he regained his sanity and decided to stop.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'inebriated humans are disgusting -- and there's the temptation to euthanise them :)  xchan'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you want to euthenise roughly 50% of the population, Zela?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'excellent suggestion'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'add yourself to the list though...I am sure we can find a reason for it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'due to your personal exception to one of their habits. Is your right arm twitching, do you have a little slug growing under your nose?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the world is overpopulated with humans'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Pity. I'm really gonna miss Zela. It's always nice to have someone to monitor and criticize your behaviors.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you have only one ball, and is the other in the Albert Hall'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the world is not overpopulated, not even close.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the population has stabilized in most countries, even dropped.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'parts of it are, Rizzer'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'add you to the list, you alcohol drinker'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rhavage has decided, after much thought, not to invite Zela to his next house party. There's only so much mirth a party can handle.
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'i am exempt, as a nonalcoholic, '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Zela is like the crazy obsessive female stalker'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Zela, I'm so sorry to say it, but you are one serious prig.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'How are Colorado getting on with the catastrophic increase in road deaths this year?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'burying them on the spot.....helps reinforce the roads.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'a problem that is solving itself ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'We say is, Tiger, not are. Not that it much matters.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(it was a loaded question, Tzad, there has been no such increase as was predicted by people who just have known better)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Darwinism  at it's best . '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, made a big pot of chili today....lots of beans, deer meat, and tomaroes.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's good, i had pheasant'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the spam kind of pheasant ?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Would love to stick and chat, but my Syracuse Orange basketball team plays in 15 minutes. kind of shaky this season, but I follow 'em anyway.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the shot by a family member kind of pheasant'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'thought hunting in the UK by commoners was illegal.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'do we still do the outrage and gun laws line or have we moved on  to more rational lines ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is mostly'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the 0.1% can still own though, and pheasant shoots haven't been banned yet, though they're working on it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how about salmon hunting?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure on legality, but don't think they bother'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I jog with a sodearm was a topic of outrage lastnight .. pretty standard I thought '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i had a sidearm, i'd jog with it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wtf is the point of having one if you don't take it with you?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mind you, i don't jog because i got a job and bought a car'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(like any sensible person)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I dont jog, but I carry a double barrel shotgun in my truck when I go on long drives.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I was accsed of being a violence monger  .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by whom?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'walad  or close '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're probably just a drip'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or have had the requisite government prisoner training'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I was once pulled over by the texas highway patrol.....had a case of wine in the trunk, 2 handguns and my shotgun.....and a sticker as a donater to the police charity.....he gave me a warning to drive a little slower.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's been suggested here that you avoid having any stickers on your car as they're part of a scoring process used by our cops to decide who to pull over'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than that, have tidy hair, don't wear a hat, and don't be black or ethnic minorityh'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'bah, mental-retards seem to want to disarm the populace so the unarmed populace may be murdered by those that are heavily armed - likely get secret jollies from that'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'idk but shutup pretty soon , and I'll never own a legal gun in Australia  .. crappy mental health n all '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just carry around a poisonous snake instead'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have only been pulled over 3x in the last 20 years....and received a speeding ticket once....was going 75 in a 65...didnt see the damn sign.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I jog in kevlar and armed  home defence is a lil more than a sidarm  none is legal  but the cops will only protect me after they are needed .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it mostly depends on what day of the month you do it on.....end of the month and your chances of being pulled over increase alot.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, let's just say that police here, if you're pulled over and search you, can prosecute you for having a toolkit in your car'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if your face doesn't fit, you can be arrested and prosecuted for just about anything'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guilt is just a convenient bonus'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'such a cynic :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't need to be a cynic if it weren't true, Riz :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I've not been pulled over recently  .. luck cause my combi van has Everything .. need it for work but I'm cute , last pull over was talked out of '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm so OCD about checking my car that if I get pulled over I know it's because they're taking the piss'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nuts isnt cute...so he would probably be dragged to jail and left over the weekend without bail :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately this means that while I don't get pulled, if i were to, i'll inevitably land up in trouble for being a sarcastic cunt to them'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Ris thats what the sidearm is for :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts likely speaks from the experience of being pulled over by the cops frequently'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Zela who were you ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've had 6 interactions with cops in my whole life, and only one was a positive experience, and that was one when they never even talked to me :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have absolutely no trust in the justice system. To do so you'd either have to be extremely rich, very well connected, or a completely naive moron to'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I dun trust the "system" so I make my own .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or live in a small town and play poker with the town sheriff a couple times a month.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sheriffs will cease to exist in the US within 10 years'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(in their current incarnation)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'doubtful.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your entire system of policing will be federalised and standardised'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'jumped up cops come with the small towns in Oz .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'are you required to let the Sheriff win at those poker games'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas Republic!'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, they wouldn't dare giving us in the UK directly elected law enforcement'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the reason they are sent to small towns is evident '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hell no, but he enjoys my moonshine.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't poker illegal there, anyway?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas holdem'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have casinos in Texas?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'everyhing but cmoking cigarettes her is illegal'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is only illegal if you play for money...we play for stuff...like catfish, or moonshine, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never understood why casinos were banned in the US, seems daft'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'won a full set of tires for my truck once.....that was a good week.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't they ban online gambling in the US, too?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'gambling is dumb  imo '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'casinos permit money laundering'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt, Tzad, doesn't mean it should be illegal'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Facebook is dumb, is isn't illegal'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'casinos are required to report all winnings to the IRS.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the IRS aren't required to report to their superiors'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy you  are right .. and I touch neither fb of online gambling '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor do i, but still wouldn't make either illegal'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I dont gamble, I play cards.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe a Facebook virus that instantly renders permanently infertile anyone who logs in, i'd support tha'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'poker is about psychology, intuition and skill....has nothing to do with gambling.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you want to gamble, go buy a lottery ticket.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lottery isn't gambling, it's a tax'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'my life is a lottery ticket ,, the rest I try skil'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'on?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the lottery is a tax on stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'how?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the chief demographic of lottery ticket buyers is people who are poor and underpriveleged'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'but they have equal chance of winning as someone rich? so..gambling?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not in Texas.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'same for poker machines'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'you mean women?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'get it? poker machines..HIII OOOO'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I know plenty of upper middle class people who love the lottery.  Spend over $50 a week on it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so if lotteries are legal, why can't roullete, or craps be?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i buy a ticket here and there when i buy gas'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'has little to do with legality, just taxes.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'same reason weed is a sch 1 control substance with no medcial benefits yet there is medical weed laws...goverment be dumb yo'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'easy to regulate a lottery, a little harder to regulate table games.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, then put a different way, why are social justice nutters and ultraconservatives so against craps, roullete, pokers and slots when they support the lottery?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'Ris has it '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK manages it, Riz'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i still dont get how its a tax..'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i mean i've heard your cute little point before.. but its still gambling'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'paying rent is a tax'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'paying for public transportation is a tax'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'paying a property tax is renting your own property'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not literally a tax, gruagach (well it is, because the government gets income from it), but it -like- a tax on stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I pay rates . property is already paid for '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'paying for satelliteTv or cableTv is a tax'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm not advocating banning lotteries, all i'm saying is it's hypocritical to allow lotteries but have some kind of ideological objection to casinos'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'tigernuts is the tax for having debate channel turned on'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is also true'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I pay for TV  nah dumbed down  media is not to my taste '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you know that you have to have a license in the UK for a TV?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'u wot m8'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what i said, if you want a TV in the UK, you must pay a yearly license fee (circa $220) for it'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'is that for real'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'how many tvs?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'dude i have 5 tvs'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any number of tvs'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1 license per household'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'wtf..'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is why we have a FCC....the broadcasters pay the taxes here to use public airwaves.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'if you are unable to discern the adverse differences between lotteries and casinos, tsk'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'to be fair, i think most pass the cost along to their customers'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'radio frequencies and spectrum are big bucks in the US.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i think that aws2 auction is at like 50B right now..'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps the UK is infected with too many sheeple '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'sheeple = growth  '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the license fee in the UK pays for the British Broadcasting Company, which as you know provides impartial news :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'screw the news, the tv shows are worth it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like?'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dr who'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the shows are produced out of house, or in conjunction with the private sector (usually in some kind of foreign rights deal)'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh come off it, Dr Who is shite'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'doc martin'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'monarch of the glen'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'as a rormer Dr Who fan ,, Dr Who sux '
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doc marten wasn't a bbc show'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zela recommends irradicating the British Broadcasting Company (or at least eliminating the UK yearly license fee on TV without eliminating the TV)
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'monarch of the glen was, technically'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my perosonal opinion is that i'm happy with the existence of BBC and it being paid for by tax payers, i just wish they'd just take the money out of general taxation and get rid of the immense pointless beurocracy surrounding the administration of the license fee and it's collection'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'monarch of the Ranch.....the Texas version.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Monarch of the Hood, Chicago edition - only lasts 3 episodes before all of the cast have been wiped out by gang related violence'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chicago has violence ?  But that is an obama town !'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Monarch of the Outback, lasts 1 episode before Australia gets rid of the monarchy, then becomes "Republic of the Outback"'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's racist, Riz'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'wrong Tigernuts, you are the racist with that "that's racist"'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the only good thing about Chicago is that is where the tv show ER was situated at.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ER should have been situated in Houston.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't have lasted very long, Riz: "Nope, they're dead. $2m please - end of series"'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'in Houston, ER 'd be administrating lethal injections'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Zela, you're racist for accusing me of being racist'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, we do lethal injections in Huntsville, not houston.'
T3/r7/2014-12-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'going back to the original argument, i think what we'll see is governments hiding inflation but basically welcoming it - it is already a time of currency wars - there will be victims. Probably the smaller countries will suffer first'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lawyers are set to benefit by millions of dollars from politically motivated law suits filed by 'survivors' of Sandy Hook. It is unclear whether these funds have been misappropriated from the myriad of donations received in the aftermath, or whether they have come from political sources'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently. another new science paper has been posted showing that electric cars are worse for the environment than diesel or hybrid cars in most countries'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'science or "science"?'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nothing surprising there, electric production isn't often clean, and the batteries aren't environmentally friendly'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a proper scientific paper in a proper scientific journal, not an environmental science statement produced by a political thinktank'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(presuming that's what you were aiming at :-) )'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not the first that's found that, either, tbh, but you know what trendies are like, especially those sandal-wearing yurt dwellers that think it's trendy to worship Al Gore'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so what journal, paper?'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'a priori, i don't see why it's "not surprising".  small combustion engines (inefficient more pollution per unit energy) are hardly snow white'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'paper?'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nor are most coal power plants...'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'sure - if you want to get your electric power in the worst possible way - have at it.  even so - i'd like to see numbers showing coal through a plant is less damage than oil through a teeny engine.'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't give you the title because PNAS haven't updated their website yet'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's why he specifically said "in most countries"...'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most countries don't produce electricity very cleanly'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless your country is powered by renewable/natural gas, electric cars are worse than diesel/hybrids'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the question wasn't "can electric cars be better", it's "ARE electric cars better in existing conditions"'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the answer to that is quite often no'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the answer to that is no for the vast majority of people on the planet'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'especially when you consider cradle to grave'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most treehuggers ignore the manufacture and disposal aspects'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'it's a matter of priorities.  if "we" valued clean energy we would have it.  i suspect a system solution would include electric cars.  that is to say, i'd be surprised if electric cars had *less* potential than smoggy combustine engines'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and simply point to best case power production for running costs'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have an inkling that they didn't even consider the manufacturing and disposal, Abe'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it's not a matter of priorities, it's a matter of current state'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clean energy is considerably less important than clean food, clean water, and clean environment'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's plenty of potential in electric cars...imo hybrids should never have been made...they have the worst parts of each of them'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate electric cars, i hate the electrics i have in my diesel car - they're an invitation for things going wrong in an annoying and unfixable way'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'electric cars should be more like diesel trains...there should be an engine, but that engine should not contribute to movement'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'huh?  how are you getting clean anything without considering all relavent inputs?  fumigating the environment in any fashion (whether car exhaust or stupid dumping auto batteries in landfills) doesn't tend to make for clean food or water'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but attaching a drivetrain to the engine as well as the motor adds such complexity that it's just stupid'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can capture polluntants from your energy production, but that's largely irrelevent if you've spent 30 years mechanising your food production and injecting it with so much antibiotics and hormones that bacteria become resistant and you wipe out millions with the resulting untreatable epidemics, not to mention cancer and other nicities'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so if you're considering cradle to grave (which is obviously the right way to do it) you have to do it uniformly with each item.  i'd like to see how the costs are tallied.  it's all in the numbers.  more engineering and economics anyway.'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'similarly what's the point of clean energy if rampant GMO-for-profit utterly destroy biodiversity?'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'again, it's all in the priorities - as i see it.  i'd wager surprisingly little economic output goes toward developing or constructing clean sustainable power food or water.  just not a priority for most power players'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a lot of economic output is spent talking about them though ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '"for the children"'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'more spent on the sociological research than on the engineering fix research'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i suspect that's universal - not just power players.  how many folks talk pretty about care for the future "for the children" - but how many with a yard even bother to plant a fruit tree?  pretty sure a tree in the yard is one of the least polluting ways to feed yourself'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it'd be pretty easy to have a little kohler generator in the trunk of all-electric cars for distance runs, and have it do nothing but electricity generation on demand, with all locomotion via electric motor...that leaves the parts count of the car to the small numbers for all-electric, but keeps the infinite-range of non-electrics (for my definition of "range" allowing for a 5 minute gass-up but NOT sitting in a diner for 45 mins while my car charges)'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best thing that can be done for the environment is have fewer children. I'd happily settle for an old diesel with less to go wrong than my current heap'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'or go the other way, and standardize on a battery bank format...then have "gas stations" swap out battery banks like they do propane cylinder exchange...a hydraulic unit pulls the dead and drops in the charged'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the canopy of the gas station would be solar, keeping all of the reserve stock battery modules topped off and ready for exchange'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gardens have essentially been banned in the UK by planning laws that have seen laws on minimum housing density and the price of building land rocket to some $1m an acre'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just use traditional combustion engines and either diesel or hydrogen. Screw electric'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'electric can be done right...it just hasn't been to date :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can't'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure it can...it's a whole lot more reliable than gas or diesel'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or rather, it never will be. there is absolutely nothing in it for car manufacturers to build an electric car that will both last a long time and be user-maintainable'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never never never ever'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '(just don't let Lucas do it ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Lucas?'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could have done so with diesel or petrol cars, but they veered away from it because there's no money in it'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'british manufacture of automotive wiring stuff...were rather infamous for unreliability'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole british auto industry was renowned for being utterly terrible'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now just about everyone in the world's automotive industry is js equally terrible'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalisation, you know :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Tigernuts - sure - autos could be made very maintable and more modular (so you can reuse most of the vehicle when some parts reach end-of-life). "But that's not cool!"  so most folks are ok with disposable vehicles using relatively inefficient engines.'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then they can fuck off telling me what to buy that's "good for the environment"'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'cool > clean'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or worse still, dictate through legislation or taxation'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK (and EU) they force you to buy increasingly shittier cars'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '"they" are the auto companies.  at least in the good ole usa where our lobbyists are literally the writers of our laws'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, they are the governments, in the face of bullshit 'social sciences' and environmental lobbyists'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm, USA is sending considerable amounts of weaponary and defence equipment to Ukraine, even before the congressional bill was signed'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bring on the nukes!'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'surprise surprise surprise'
T3/r7/2014-12-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if China were found to be arming Cuba, what would the USA's reaction be?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'recent polls by PBS and the Pew Research Center show that support for the second ammendment guarantee to keep and bear arms at an 20 year high'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'appears Americans reacted to the political attempts to disarm them via Sandy Hook Propaganda entirely distasteful'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'The killings have made people more afraid than outraged. '
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'afraid of what?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Afraid of being shot by insane people with guns. So they want guns to protect themselves from other people with guns.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty sensible'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, the shootings say far more about the state of the US mental healthcare system than it does gun laws'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'school shootings can be largely blamed on TV'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'm not sure I agree. There are more than 300 million people in the US. With a number that staggering, what system could cover them all?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no system could cover them all, just the same as no system could ever be perfect'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Exactly.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, if you plaster such events over the TV 24hours a day for weeks at a time, you're giving other nuts plenty of encouragement. It used to be when there mass murders or terrorism, you did NOT advertise it'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the people in charge at the time knew that if you advertised it, you were doing the bad guys work for them'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, i don't think it's possible to keep this stuff quiet these days, so you'll just have to accept that these things will happen in a modern society'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, I don't know if I'd call it a fine line, but how do you differentiate advertising from news reporting? If the media didn't report mass killings, the public would be outraged over *that.* And rightly so, I can't help but think.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence why i said you have to accept that these things will happen'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope for the best, prepare for the worst'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'm inclined to agree. '
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like the people here in the UK who complain about the threat of Islamic extremists in the UK. Trouble is, they've let Muslims settle here in large numbers over the last 30 years, so some radicalisation in the face of really deeply shitty foreign policy is inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no point jailing or surveilling the whole country, you just have to accept that there's a risk'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'On the one hand, you can make the perfectly sensible argument that if there were no guns, nobody would ever get shot. The problem is, though, that there are at least as many guns in the States as there are people. No gun legislation imaginable can possibly curb their use or distribution. At least not any draconian legisltation.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a sensible argument because it's not a possible situation'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, I was speaking hypothetically.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"if there were no guns" is not a sensible argument'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've draconian gun regs here in the UK for nearly 30 years, you can't own handguns or rifles, and shotguns are very tightly regulated. Still get gun crime'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, strip out the gang/drug related shootings in the UK and USA and you'll find the gun murder rate is similar in both countries'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(assuming that police shooting people is not a crime)'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"if there were no guns" is a recipe for state-sponored genocide and mass-ethanisation'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Frankly, I'm a little surprised that there is still no radical islamic movement in the States. May simply be out of fear of reprisal. '
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not enough of them compared to the population at large'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Islam is the biggest single faith in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Zela -- again, I was speaking hypothetically. But state-sponsored genocied and euthanasia? Who do you think is in the government?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Rhavage seems to want to incite islamic radical movement'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'What? Have your read the conversation? Are you reading-comp challenged? Where the hell did you come up with *that* notion?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I only agree with Zela insofar as you do not want to be in a situation where the government has an absolute monopoly on power'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Agreed. And it doesn't.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woohoo, picked up my pork from the butcher.....took them one of my porkers last week....he weighed 267 lbs, and produced 162 lbs of pork for the freezer.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Send me ribs!'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't, though the militarisation of the police in the USA, combined with their pushes for gun controls and signing of the UN arms treaty all suggest that the establishment are trying to move the balance of power further in their favour'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmmm, ribs!'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'bah, foodtalk is going to kill the debate'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK have already done so with arming police with tasers, spray, and bodyarmor'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'together with arbitrary police powers'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'raise 2 porkers each year for meat....love pork....the next one will go to the butcher in another month or two.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'pigs are not kosher'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I try to take them to the butcher at around 200 lbs, but this one grew really fast.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'cops are not kosher either, unless they are koshing those that advertise pork for eating'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what have you against pork?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Speaking of guns and animals (altough not in the same conversation), I am very happy to report that the state police GOT the fuckers who were poaching my woods last night. Heard a shot at midnight, bolted to my car, saw the empty car at the side of the road, took down the tag number and called 911. Police responded and nabbed the pricks.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vegetarian nut, zionist nut, or turban wearing nut?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the butcher kills, butchers, and smokes the meat for you.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'disgusting odor, disgusting taste'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'its less healthy than beef'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'homegrown pork is almost perfect.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'more perfect is no pork'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yeah, I like pork, too. Love a nice pork roast with gravy. Mmmmm.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they grow in a 32x32 pen and have a self feeding feeder, so they are never hungry.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Zela, I recommend that you don't eat pork.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, dont eat pork....more home grown organic pork for me.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nothing like a slab of freshly smoked bacon and eggs from your own chickens.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'toast with goat butter and rasberry jam that I picked up at the farmers market from a local u pick em farm.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Suprisingling home grown potatos are much tastier than store bought. I didn't think it would make much difference, but I was suprised.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'The cops were very friendly. I think they were grateful that somebody was able to finally put a positive ID on the vehicle. The poachers have been running them in circle.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'anyone have anything on the pakistan attack'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Rizgoth business is bad -- advertising crap food on the mud debate channels -- tsk '
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'home grown is always nicer, which is why i'm really annoyed that gardens are practically banned in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Malkar, I grow my own Alaskan gold. Big, yummy potatoes.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Crimson, why aren't the liberals calling for a gun ban in Pakistan, because clearly that will solve it'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'another egypt'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'going to butcher 10 rabbits next week.....and 20 meat chickens.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Taliban is an Islam problem, time for Islam to solve it'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Can't say that I care much for rabbit, I have to admit.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'we grew kennebeck potatoes'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, I love rabbit....really low fat, so when you cook use oil.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'we dont I anna make the. mad'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wut?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Translation, please?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'dont wanna make them mad'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the rabbits?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, we want to make them mad....gives us a reason to keep bombing them into dust.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'the muslim'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think they need a reason to be mad'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'thats not good'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'islam is a terrorist religion'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'shot a deer a couple weeks ago....only a 10 pointer though.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'picked up 60 lbs of deer meat and sausage'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'dont agree'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like what Rhavage and I were talking about before, you ain't going to solve it, so leave it alone and let them sort it out'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Hell, 10 ptr can still be a big deer.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'was a beautiful deer, only 80 yards away.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'when one person dies everyone is involved'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Rizgoth seems to be using the debate channel as confessional'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's nonsense, crimzon'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hope to get one for my limit, but only seeing does lately....and doe season is over.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'At the risk of sounding like a bleeding heart peacenik, bombing into dust hasn't worked yet and won't work. We're going to have to find some way to talk to them, no matter how difficult that is. And yeah, it's difficult.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'to merge the two debates US is not a likely invasion target because Pennsylvania probably fields about the worlds 5th largest army on the first day of hunting season'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'maybe but they kill an american and everyone is inlolved'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you aren't going o dstroy the, you aren't going to pacify them, just leave them alone and let Islam get it's own house in order'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Riz, today was the last day of deer season here in NY. My neighbor got one, too.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmmm, love deer/pork fat sausage....had the butcher make it really hot this year.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zela suspects: Tigernuts is a closet muslim
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'thanks for the thoughts'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'is the limit 1 in NY ?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Depends on where in the state you live. Here in Tompkins county, I think it's two, but also you can get a doe permit and a party permit. Or maybe one buck and the other permits. I'm not a hunter myself.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Shokran jaeelan, Zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, the limit here in Texas statewide is 2....but only 1 doe during doe season.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'at least I think it is, it is 2 in Alaska also.'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'r&k might as well get me an xboc'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'xbox'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'r&k?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit of a switch from pakistan to xbox'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'yup I just wanted to know what people think cuz I dont'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'about xboxes? or pakistan?'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps it's time you did think about Pakistan :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'wakeup callscall'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Seasonal question: Jesus - Messiah, or Terrorist?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'old man.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'conjecture: Tigernuts, a wannabe demagogue, or wannabe terrorist, or wannabe paid rabblerouser'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'tsk, Tigernuts is attempting to scrape low with casting aspersions against the (christian) Lord Jesus Christ'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'to be honest, it depends on what is attributed to Jesus.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what evidence have you to suggest that he was made a peer by the British monarch?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Zela, rationally, it is probably something that should be done, but with religion, nearly every question to events and integrity is treated as an accusation, which is tiresome.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Jopari - "probably something that should be done" - seems like another aspersion'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'on what? you?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'to question the role that he played in the development of society and his time is not an aspersion, it asks for an honest evaluation.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the above by Tigernuts was almost like conjecturing: "is Santa Claus a terrorist"'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jesus was designated a terrorist (in modern parlance) by the Roman government of the time'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might recall they nailed him to a cross for this reason'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'wrong Tigernuts.  Pontius Pilate allegedly said he found no evil in this man Jesus'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mael: 'so he's only allegedly wrong'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'Was Pontius Pilates the entire government?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vaed: 'at that time the hebrews were a conqured people and had no right to execute. The power structure of the hebrews wanted him dead and used the roman system to do it'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and of course, there's not a lot of concrete historical fact to corroborate the alleged chronology.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the judao-christian Bible is a collection of fictions -- so the the Bible as "evidence" is confabuated hearsay fiction'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Jesus Christ never existed'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'the world is only 6000 years old'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the "Pontius Pilate" story is fiction'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'not very good topic to debate, because there is not much to support opinions, only personal feeling'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'there is a another idea that aside from being god or not, jesus christ did exist'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'and its historical fact with enough cross reference'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'were there miracles? god? thats up to ones faith'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the "Pontius Pilate" story of washing of hands is likely a christian fiction to appease the romans -- the jews wash their hands as a symbolic gesture, not the Roman leaders.  The Roman leaders 'd sooner "kill" than "wash hands" -  Pontius Pilate liked killing - in which case those alleged Jews demanding the death of Jesus were more likely to be slaughtered than Jesus - and perhaps they were, later'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'from a Roman perspective, why slaughter just one when many annoying rabblerousers may be slaughtered'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'from roman perspective those were their citizens'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'annoying expendable citizens'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'AD 70'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the christian Bible is a fiction'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'I think that's established.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'cite christian evidence with regard to Jesus Christ, not falsified Roman evidence'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'you know that's just being biased right?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Jesus said: "i bring not peace, but the sword"  -- not necessarily a terrorist there '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'somehow Christians got it all right? never lied? I think I'm gonna stop now, this is a minefield topic not suitable for a debate.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Jesus allegedly overturned money-lender tables in the temple - (not necessarily a terrorist)'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zela plays the wuss card
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"tip toe, through the minefields, at the minefields, that is where i go, go tip toe past the minefields with moi"  (in Tiny Tim falsetto voice)'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"God -- a Deity! and or a Terrorist!"'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'reminiscences of a 'loving' god:  "Depart from me, you abominations into everlasting torments!" '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Jesus christ said: "where i go, you may not follow.  if you follow, you will die."'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and the channel moves back into silence, this time for the better.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Simon and Garfunkel: "The Sounds of Ignorance"'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'movie criticism channel y/n'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i only do anti-establishment diatribes and potential fixes for various problems in UK or US society/governance'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: ''6 Bullets' ending:  badguy: "Forgive me, Father, i have sinned. It's been quite a while since my last confession. I i wonder, does God really forgive even our worst crimes."  ?Priest?: "God might.    I won't"  (gunshot)'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(Jean-Claude Van Damme tidying up loose ends) '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the movie title "6 Bullets" is not very relevant to the movie content, except as an introduction - plenty of bullets and violence in the movie'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the movie starts out blackcreen with printed white dialogue (quotes are for pauses before display):  "Modern day slavery is" "big business"   "I once saw a child" "sold" "for six bullets"'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"6 bullets" a fairly good movie to watch  (apart from a few annoying extra gruesome embellishments) .. for xenophobes .. and decent folk ,, and those that like 'bash'  callous russian moldavian mafia  .. and pedophile rich arabs (with a prediliction for young white virgins) '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'seems the American movie industry in several recent movies likes to portray russian mafia as callous trigger-happy and depraved'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what makes you think they aren't depraved?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so .. no benefit of the doubt ..'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(predilection)'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(to 'bash')'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the movie "Safe" like to 'bash' the New York NYPD and the Mayor's office, and the japanese organised crime, and russian organised crime -- lots of gratuitous violence == excellent movie '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you stupid girl, you don't understand business'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but then again, it IS a Jason Statham movie so there was always going to be a lot of bashing regardless.'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'why'd they have to go and kill the homeless guy?'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Safe" describes Triads Chinese organised crime - chinese criminals, japanese criminals,  they almost look similar'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps tidying up loose ends, if the homeless guy was a pickpocket '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the movie "The Darkest Hour" (filmed in Moscow) pokes fun at the russians with a deleted scene (Russians drinking vodka), and in an ending scene where the russian 'overproudly' states he is staying in moscow because "this is Moscow" (instead of more practical reasons, like fighting on several fronts)'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'hrm, perhaps this may be the start of a trend: "irish drinking Guiness" "american rednecks drinking moonshine" "aussies drinking fosters" ... '
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"scottish eating haggis"'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'and for the overfoolish pride: "americans reciting the oath of allegiance"'
T3/r7/2014-12-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a comedic deleted scene to "The Darkest Hour" may've been introduced by the director stating: "And what movie in russia 'd be complete without a scene of despondent 'communists playing russion roulette'."  (sound of gunshot(s))'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the Rino's and their Democrat equivalents are now talking about bombing North Korea'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess nobody else saw the amusing mars-level hypocrisy of America getting pissed off at someone else hacking them'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like this is being used as a trojan to push through the draconian cybersecurity legislation'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn, they're fuckers'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Colorado's neighbouring states are sueing Colorado in the high court because pot is seeping over the borders. If the court rules against Colorado it'll be a sure sign that the constitution dead and the country overthrown'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts is whimpering incoherently about something again'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't consider asserting the tenth ammendment "whimpering incoherently", but then i don't expect you know what it is without looking it up'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"pot seeping" seems incoherent'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's how the paper was phrased, i believe the specific grievence is that Colorado is on not upholding federal law, which clearly should be rejected because in this case state law supercedes it'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'You, Tigernutsack. if you know everything, maybe you might tell me why my chair is movin away from my table. 1cm/hour.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insufficient friction, hwuaijijalscrotum'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'damn it got rude fast:p'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd call it brotherly banter'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'im only fcn sitting on it. drives me nuts'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Funny you should mention Colorado and states rights. Just reminds me that a big battle in the US is being fought (in a way, at least) between the 10 amendment and the 14th. Same sex marriage being the issue.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I like the fact that Utah has given an ultimatum to the feds to return their state land back to them by Dec 31st or it'll be confiscated'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'SSM (14th ) amendment is gonna win, I'd say.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the commerce clause is abused, was abused in 2005 Gonzales v Raich and should be overturned'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Can't say I'm familiar with that.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know how on earth the supreme court got away with "talking bullshit and saying 'do what we say even though it's clearly nonsense''
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it regards a californian woman who had her personal medical pot crop destroyed by the feds, sued the DEA because it was legal in California, yet in the supremes argued that her pot, despite not sold and only used for personal consumpiotn, COULD affect the interstate of pot (despite the fact there IS no interstate market for it)'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might have just as well said "you lose because it might make our unicorns ill" it would have about the same level of basis in reality'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i take a different slant on gay marriage, governments have no business regulating marriage'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'calling something nonsense without being able to explain exacly why is also nonsense'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(exactly)'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've just described in detail why, zela, do keep up dear'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts whimpered something about unicorns'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they made being a fat lazy bastard a disability in the EU for the purposes of discrimination, so all the fat lazy americans will no doubt be shipping over for free goodies'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I agree that the gov't should just keep its nose out of marriage. And it will. The supreme court was content to not visit the circuit court decisions overturning SSM bans. Now with Ohio and a couple other states in the 6th circuit having their bans upheld, I don't think the SC can avoid the issue. And they'll rule in favor of the majority of the circuits and SSM will be legal nationwide.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'marriage was a very religious thing. but now its like a pile of standard contracts. so actually you don't have to marry - you can just write a contract. shouldn't bother anyone'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all governments need to do is put in some method of legally recognising a relationship, either that or remove all tax/law that refers to married couples'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Not quite, Hwuai. Holy Matrimony is religious. Marriage is simply a civil contract, whether the ceremony is performed by a cleric or not. Otherwise, you'd have no JPs or ship captains marrying people.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'SSM is the prelude to Sodom and Gomorrah'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nah. i doubt if even 1% of couples have actually read through those laws.. only the rich ones maybe'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its a custom'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Zela, SSM isn't going to affect your life in practically any way. '
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Holy Matrimony is supposed to be Holy '
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Agreed, Zela. But marriage can be gotten at a damned drive-thru in Vegas. How holy is *that8?'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'counterfiet money may be printed off an advanced copymachine'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Not sure what your point is, Zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zela never has any points'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'counterfeit marriages'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aren't all marriages counterfeit?'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'm afraid not, Zela. If a couple acquires a license and has the ceremony performed, they're married, cut and dried, whether you approve of it or noe.'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the depraved do not believe that marriages are holy, so they (pretend to) fail to discern there is a difference between heterosexual marriage and samesex marriages'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're both marriages'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who cares if it is holy? Religion is mostly social control for stupid people'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Depraved is an opinion. The gays don't agree with you. '
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'north koreas hacking tea'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'normally i'd say that "Holiness" is a fiction, but as a disbeliever in religious crap, am yet not sure -- maybe there is something to "Holy" marriage which is vastly different to ordinary marriage'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, it's different in the eyes of those who see their union as sacred and sanctified. '
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'north korea couldn't hack their way out of a paper bag, there's no way they hacked Sony, that's just a bullshit excuse given for invasion or other UN activities'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, we should continue to promote gayness: While they're being gay, they're not making babies to overpopulate the place with. Just provided they can be trained to stop spreading aids in the way they currently do'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and who doesn't like two hot chicks making out with each other?'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'an annoying facet of samesex marriage is that some samesex couples are going to pretend that their samesex marriages are "holy and sanctified", and THAT is likely going to annoy both the religious and the agnostics seeking proof of the paranormal'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who cares who is annoyed?'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'annoying someone is not against the law'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the lynch mob coming to your door, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they do, they'll be leaving my door in bodybags'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'in 1000 years we can have both sexes. we can jack off watching our own boobs. um.. oops. we can do that now!'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the lynchmob shall first send the cops to your door to disarm you, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then the cops will leave in bodybags'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(not that i'm armed, this is the UK, there'd be no lynchmobs)'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'football hooligans'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'football hooligans aren't lynchmobs'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yeah. they do the beatings for much dumber reasons:p'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't tend to do beatings'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'they do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePGo_Pr6i0w'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the "holy" are mostly sexperverts these days -- so "holiness" is mostly a scam'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, but that's football lynchmobs going after other football lynchmobs. It's just a modern manifestation of clan/tribal conflict'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's all team sport is, period'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if people cared more about their community, freedom and liberty and the way their coutnry is run, and less about sport, maybe the world wouldn't be in quite the state it is now'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the other hand, maybe it's keeping all the stupid people occupied'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'clueless'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'become a priest and marry some poofs, Zela, you'll feel much better for it'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're mostly nice people'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'that was disgusting, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's disgusting?'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'i'm irreligious'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should become religious, it might bring some much needed balance to your life'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with all the faux outrage, you'd make a great Jew'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'been there, done that, no thanks'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Merry Ex-mas" is a crappy movie - they badly cast an unreasonable eyesore bitch opposite the obviously handsome Dean Cain '
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Merry Ex-mas" is 2014 .. a slightly overweight fathead-looking formerly-slim actor is playing the rich suitor to the ex-bitch -- the failing lawsuit against the paparazzi photoshopped faux-photo requires a "Bruce Willis" catch44-type rewrite, where the slanderous editors of the scandalrag get their private parts shot full of hot lead '
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'tsk, Dean Cain put on some weight'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '40 minutes into the movie on TV and Dean Cain seems to be putting on more weight  (which is strange, since filming a movie is rarely chronological) - may be an allergic reaction to the restaurant'
T3/r7/2014-12-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the movie "Merry Ex-mas" was dissatisfying and the half the ending was horrid -- not recommended viewing -- not worth purchasing the dvd even at $2'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'I praise lasher for bringing all yje religions together to kill'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'should we (US Citizens) pay for the Obamas to vacation in Hawaii?'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'citizens shouldn't expect to pay for treasonous presidents to play gold'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err golf'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts excessively criticised the Obamas and is obviously a racist'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Are Sony and Paramount a bunch of pussies?'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'cosby a rapist'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'seen it all'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'like a retard throwing you down stairs'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'im disabled so I can say that'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'prove that you are mentally-disabled before you say that'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'cos be a wut -- tsk'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the hardest part of a vegetable to eat?'
T3/r7/2014-12-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the wheelchair'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmmm, most modern vehicles are now EMP resistant.....They come with shielding to protect from radio interference because of all the new toys that are now added to vehicles.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'resistant ... iffy .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'think I will stick with my 1978 dodge diesel 4x4....pretty much all mechanical....'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I drive a 1974 VW Transporter '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i wonder if it is possible to engineer a pure mechanical environment friendly engine'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'pure mechanical? yes, it's called a bicycle.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its bionic engine'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'not a Goldwing ? :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'produces a lot of shit'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'engines used to be environmental friendly.....30+ mpg....it wasnt until electric everything and huge engines were added that mpg dropped like a rock.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'bilogic that is'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and electromagnetically shielded isn't anywhere near the same as EMP resistant'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'iffy .. thats a technical term :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I wonder....would a lightning strike be more powerful than an EMP ?'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'define "powerful"'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they do different things, and are protected in different ways'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most modern vehicles can survive a direct lightning strike.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'not only survive. but they wouldn't notice one'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: '...and useless against emp'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'A lightning strike IS an emp'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmmm, ritz crackers...with smoked salmon'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'my jobsite had a metal tracked excavator drive through 22000 volt powerlines a few weeks ago .. driver survived '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'we all still buying lottery tickets ...'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'mm, indeed it is'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snowangel Tzadkiel gains 300exp for killing a channel
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmmm, the new IRS regulations regarding foundations is to keep people poor, and from letting wealthy foundations from helping people for longer than 25 years or so.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dont have babies and be wealthy without any loans to pay back. its so simple!'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the IRS requires that all foundations have to give away at least 5% of its value each year.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'move the foundation to an offshore account'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'money laundering 101'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you do that, you have to pay a special onshore to offshore fee of 20% of value, for loss of tax revenue to the US.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lolz'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'money laundering 201'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You should see the new rules that the IRS inacted to stop people from giving up their citizenship......that facebook founder had to pay $1 billion to take his assets overseas. :p'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'if its legitimately helping people its doomed for failure'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'unsure by what you mean as a "foundation"'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a foundation is a taxfree free entity designed to give away money to charities.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'G20 .. tax collertors .. '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"charitable foundations" are usually scams'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'seems the IRS is attempting to restrict the "free trade" flow of assets'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'large companies are able to hire smart lawyers to get around the IRS -- some of those companies do not pay any tax - even receive a negative tax'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'get rid of the income tax'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmmm, one of those 60 inch HDLED tv's is calling my name.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'some of those christian "charitable foundations" did not learn the "parable of the talents" where they are supposed to earn more talents, (not waste the talents and beg for more)'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'most of them have money put away '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"their own very private charity"'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'look at the salvation army for example'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'privatize the military .. we can start unravelling from there'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the bible also says one man pretends to be rich but is really poor. another man pretends to be poor but is really rich...'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure, privatize the military and the avg pay for them will skyrocket to $100k+, and we taxpayers will pay for it....keep the govt military, and the overpriced weapon systems private.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'the bible says alot of stupid stuff'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the bible itself doesn't say you should believe the bible. so..'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Walad: 'i think internet got more stupid stuff than bible'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'regardless thats how christian charities think'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i could care less for bibs of any kind '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, what is one of the best brands of tv based on quality ?'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have had a 40 inch vizio for 4 years now.'
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'I have a 68cm CRT with a blown tube , basically black and white now , been using it for a year like it .. no reason to change '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'got a craig crt thats nice '
T3/r7/2014-12-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Enhanced Interrogation Techniques (EIT): Torture?  or just a new method for ensuring accurate confessions... er... accurate answers from plaintiffs in traffic court?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2 cops shot dead in NYPD in retaliation for Garner killing. So it begins...'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the US Navy's new stealth destroyer cost $3 billion to build, and it is the largest destroyer ever built, but only needs 130 crew members unlike older destroyers that needed 300 crew.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'so will it save us moneyy or cost us money?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is yet to be determined, some of that cost is the research and development, and the fact that it is the first ship.'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the final cost for the ship is supposed to be around $2 billion each.'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the capt of the ship is named James Kirk......:p'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the new destroyer can fire rocket propelled computer controlled shells up to 63 miles at a target....3x farther than the current destroyer.'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in the future, it will be outfitted with electromagnetic rail guns once they are out of the testing phase.'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's the point of a destroyer when you have no country left to defend?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what is the destroyer going to be destroying? nobody has invaded US territory in 200 years'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Enhanced Interrogation: torture?  or just a way to ensure confessions ... er... um accurate answers from traffic court plaintiffs?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'enhanced interrogation sounds like a spell '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'Anyways isnt there always brutality on both sides in any war. especially the long drawn out ones?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'exactly?  why not add to the mayhem... All-State is here?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why not just sit down with a pudding pop grab your kodak camera and wait for bill cosby lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'hes the distraction atm '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'only reason we are talking about it again is because jeb bush is a possibility '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bloody jeb bush'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'terri schaivo and abuse of power is what they dont want u to remember '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if USA votes for bush or clinton again, then they deserve the collapse'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the collapse for some is necessary now'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'all that money tied up in prepping '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's the only thing that explains the militarisation of the police and the caching of heavy weapons and road-capable tanks around the country'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'fifty years before the american revolution there was talk of just that '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'so any talk about such things and they start militarizing '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'alex jones just adds more fuel then help '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'if it's seen as good for the war on terror, won't it be seen as good for the war on drugs.  or any war?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no war on terror or war on drugs, there is only the war on society'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'he is paid opposition to me'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the middle class is like a timer on it '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'once the middle class completly collapses its have and have nots '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'then serfs up dude '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'party on dudes - be enhanced to each other!'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'thats nutz '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you still have a middle class?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haven't had one in the UK for some time'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a legal precedent has been set - if you, as a business that provides transaction services (a bank, online payment system) that gets used to buy something illegaly, you can expect jailtime'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, don't expect HSBC, CitiGroup, or Paypal to get into trouble, this is directed purely at alternate currencies such as bitcoin'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Tigernuts - what's the precedent?  jurisdiction?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'also recall that major banks have been implicated in laundering money for Mexican drug cartels with minor slap on the wrist in fines'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody has been prosecuted for running a bitcoin transfer service where the bitcoins have been used to pay for something illegal'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the precedent set'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'extrapolating, it criminalises any business that handles payment transfers to the activity of their clients'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's analagous to holding ISP's criminally responsible for what YOU look at on the interwebz'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'holding gun manufacturers responsible for the actions of gun owners'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'holding car manufacturers responsible for the way people drive'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so on'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but here it's the usual selective-enforcement deal'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they need to hurry up and automate driving '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they don't'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never want automated cars to ever be on the road, and i certainly won't be buying or using one'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i think obama should get to rule forever '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can, in his jail cell'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols will never hwppen '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then he'll have to make do with greatly overpaid retirement'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given how shitty Chrome is, and given that Google already don't give a crap about you, you really want to be inside a car driven by them?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i love all of it '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why's that, then?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'gonna have to learn to live with a lot of things it looks like '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the technology is not going to be mature enough to use for 10 years yet, and even then most people won't want it personally. It'll probably only see use as taxis in urban environments'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well thats given they can afford that kind of luxury '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i get the impression that they're aiming it at mass market'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you'll see Uber using them first'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'better dust off nietzscand get reading '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'nietzsche '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, just buy a snatch landrover and add bullbars'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'people need to learn how elitists think '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll explode before they get what they want'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already beginning to unravel'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'most people these days aren`t deep thinkers '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people these days don't even think'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not in a social aspect no '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'its not their fault '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do most people even realise that conventional capitalism has failed?'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'its enviroment and upbringing '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'capitalism requires a certain level of collective optism'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's done, what you see going on now is a certain amount of mitigation, delaying the inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it goes down you'll have unrest, and finally someone will start a war because it's either that or revolution'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'all there is to do is prepare '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the unrest is starting, that's where we are right now'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, there is time'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'personally i dont worry one bit '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do, because it's almost impossible to prepare in the UK'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'everyone is beating the war drum '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'it is near impossible but still possible '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'now is the best time to practice networking skills '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'prepared or not if you dont have a good network of people ur screwed for sure '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'networks are screwed'
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'was talking facebook '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'face to face associations '
T3/r7/2014-12-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i was taught its not who you trust but what you trust them with. '
T3/r7/2014-12-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Runaway garbage truck kills 6 in Glasgow. SPLC and Think Progress call for a complete ban on garbage collections and universal background checks for anyone to own or use a garbage can'
T3/r7/2014-12-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, the Rouble has firmed up against the dollar after it disappeared from the news'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '1st in history'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '3rd in history'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seems CPS child abduction is alive and well in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: '"No child left behind"'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'seems the sky is falling somewhere'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'perhaps there is a bounty $ per child captured?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that has been postulated, and there is some evidence for it, since CPS departments do get paid per child rehomed'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also CPS attracts the very worst of people through it's doors, those little Hitlers who delight in making people's lives a misery'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'worse than the Police'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'family rights handbook cps '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'google it'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'Marikk - what is it?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'if u ever have to deal with those morons you"ll thank me'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Police in the UK have taken it to a new level though, threatening to criminalise 40% of the population with roadside drugs test'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'list of rights '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'that u have'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'which states?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'how.they operate and real case examples'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'all your childrenz are belong to us?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when did you twig that you are not free, you are a serf?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'all fifty. was written by someone who got their children back'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your land doesn't belong to you, your kids don't belong to you, your money doesn't belong to you'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have no rights'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'ahh hogwash '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were born into a prison that you share with 6.5bn other inmates, and most of them are dumb as fuck'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's my life mantra :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'now that is true '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mh 4'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'but why must true things be sad?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'seems some government organisations are doing something somewhere -- i'd supply the details, but i don't know the details .. or .. you already know the details, right (snickers) .. or .. here is a youtube obfuscation .. or .. where's Druzil - he was at least somewhat informative amidst the incoherence (an A- for effort) .. or .. "look!- the sky is falling." (exeunt stage left)'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the price of gas is low because we are buying it on the black market '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'its stolen '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'was that a racist jibe'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'we are buying our gas from Isis by proxy'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which indirectly helps the US economy'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're funding ISIS then that's less the Pentagon has to fund them'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not in the long term '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Does Isis provide that much oil it can push prices down this low?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'course not, it's the Saudi's'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'saudi's are pumping to put pressure on Russia/Iran and the US/Canadian Shale Oil'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isis oil is small fry in comparison'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the financial system isnt even real '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and mostly goes to Turkey, their allies)'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they dont even use real math lols reghan called it voodoo economics'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what makes you think economics has anything to do with maths?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'says the poor fooled'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mainstream economics is just political propaganda'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'there is no fix because its not broken '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the rich laugh at you ignorant deceived fools (as they funnnel more riches ino their coffers)'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not riches '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's nice, Zela, what are you going to do about it?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'resources '
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'spoils to the victor'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rich won't have a country to spend it in at the rate they're going, so i wouldn't get all butt hurt about it if i were you'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'war is coming to a Ukraine near you'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must get the popcorn in'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'you mean, as a change from all the war previously happening in Ukraine?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, it's being escalated to directly involve NATO and Russia'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'what a wonderful idea'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US is arming Ukraine and starting the joining of NATO process (in violation of various previous agreements). In payment, Ukraine have privatised much of the infrastructure, handing it over to US corporate interests'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many with links to George Soros, Joe Biden, and Harry Reid'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's only Russia, they have nukes, so what's the worst that can happen?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'i can't see them Putin up with it'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd like to just see Putin and Obama have a bare knuckle fist fight to the death'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'at it as usual I see Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'who would win such a fight do you think?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'putin'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'probably'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'Heh. Australian Prime Minister threatened to "shirt-front" him when they met at the G9 summit. He chickened out. Which is sad, because he really needs a punch in the face.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's got martial arts training and was a former kgb field agent. Obama's just a big gold playing pussy'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'gold playing?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Australian prime minister is a nazi, but probably not the worst head of state in the developed world'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'probably?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'i can think of worse, but that doesn't make him any good'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least he's not that freak woman on the left of australian politics'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Lackluster Lachdanan raises an eyebrow at Tigernuts's weird actions.
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'you'll have to be more specific, there's a few to choose from :D'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the one perpetually whining about how everyone in australian politics is mysoginist'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Julia Gillard'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'oh, she's retired from politics'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good riddance, please can she take Theresa May with her'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'In her defence, there is a lot of mysogynists in Australian politics.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'misogynists*'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'discrimination happens. get over it'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'discrimination happens and people should complain about it'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women calling foul over gender discrimination is particularly hilarious and hypocritical'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'because?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the source of most of it'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'we all discriminate, i think you're just more senstive to women doing it'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't bother me'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women and men are different, feminists just need to realise this necessary limitation of biology, then everyone would get on far better'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'limitation?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, you cannot have equality when fundamentally the bodies are different'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'Does that mean you can't be equal to Putin? Your bodies are fundamentally different.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure then, i'll campaign for my life to be extended by 4 years or all women to be euthenised 4 years earlier to make up for the difference in life expectancies between the gender'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'there is more racial dimorphism in humans than there is sexual dimorphism. are you arguing that hispanics should have different rights, because their bodies are fundamentally different?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Putin doesn't play a part in gender discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are hispanics a different gender to me?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'no, they're just fundamentally more different than a female is to you'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then aside from gender, what inequality exists between a Hispanic and me?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'more likely to be suspected of terror acts'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here they aren't'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'presumably melinin levels'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Lackluster Lachdanan nods at Emm.
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not sure how that really matters though'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'my point was that it doesn't, and neither does gender'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you say there is no gender discrimination?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'debate the entire different biology thing is a red herring though, different biology does not excuse discriminatory laws or power structures.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no discriminatory laws or power structures here'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'in the UK?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'there are discriminatory power structures everywhere'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if anything, there is positive discrimination for women'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how about the law that says it is illegal to show a woman having an orgasm in a movie, but not a man?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no such law'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'westlaw says there is'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it could be wrong though'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'we have one that you're not allowed to show an erect penis, or the inside of a vagina. everything else is fine.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably is, there are dozens of such movies'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'which means most porn is either lesbian or very heavily editted'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'of course, there's the internet where anything goes, so the laws surrounding porn are moot.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, any meaningful discrimination then? we're scraping the barrel with orgasms on film in a law that may or may not exist, but certainly isn't enforced'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'wage discrimination is well documented'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'note that i'm not saying there WAS NOT discrimination, but that there isn't any now'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no wage discrimination in gender in the UK and hasn't been for many years, by law'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would point out that there is more than 20% gender pay gap in UK but you would probably argue that isn't discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'what do you attribute it to?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not discrimination. Men and women with the same qualifications, in the same job, with the same experience and length of service are paid the same - it's a law and is strictly observed'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'you know what your colleages are paid?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the difference can be attributed to children'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i do'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'interesting'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and what about the disparity in the number of women in professorships or en route to them?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any particular subject?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'so women are paid less due to kids. to males not have children in the UK?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some might argue 'lower brain mass''
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women still tend to look after the kids, Lach, they're the ones that get pregnant - biological imperative and all'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, chix0rn are underrepresented in STEM, but it's more of an issue of interest than opportunity'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that being said, "interest" is influenced by atmosphere'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not that males don't have kids, it's that (1) males don't have to take off work in order to deliver them, and (2) males tend to sacrifice work for family less often than females'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there will always be a bias there in favour of women having the kids because we are mammals'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'although paternity leaves are more common now than they used to be (and it's protected right in many countries)'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that should be celebrated and welcomed, not derided and legislated against'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and because it's possible for the women to _have_ the kids :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and the fact that our entire society is built such that people are punished for having and caring for their kids is an inherently discriminatory power structure that is so deep it is unlikely to ever change'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'punished?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I mean that in the economic sense'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not punished in an economic sense'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'financially disadvantaged?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you have no idea what punished means in economic sense then'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are considerable financial kickbacks for having kids'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that, in an age where we're overpopulated we could do without'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'especially in france, but even there they don't compare to the penalties extracted by society'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if men bring up the kids then they are treated the same'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't see how that can be construed as gender discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'implicit discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is in the same way that an insurance policy that doesn't cover sickle cell anemia treatment is racial discrimination'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for it to be discrimination, the treatment would have to be different'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insurance is discriminatory by design'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you are missing the point'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't miss your point, i just think it's bullshit'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts -)
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well you are not answering it you are evading it which is poor argumentation.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not answering what?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the inherent discrimination in the societal structures that reward behavior that is more often performed by males, and punishes behavior that is more often performed by females'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'childrearing'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women do most of the punished of that'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'there are many others but that is the most obvious and easy to hand'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I never said men were to blame for the structural discrimination, though I think they probably contribute more to it than women do, unfortunately that is one of those things that is very difficult to determine.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I was, at this stage, merely arguing that it exists undeniably.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you'll notice i said earlier that women's role in childrearing should be cherished and valued'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but if it's not men doing the discrimination, is it still discrimination?'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course it is'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't see how that works, you're discriminating against yourself'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so stop!'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it just isn't bigotry'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'anyway if you agree that women's role in child rearing should be valued more than it currently is in society then we agree so we can stop this debate.'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yes. there is no legal discrimination, only social discrimination, and that's mostly as a result of the feminist movement itself'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you just can't have it both ways'
T3/r7/2014-12-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we hadn't gone down the route of globalisation and race-to-the-bottom capitalism, families would still be able to subsist on one workers' wage and the whole childbearing thing wouldn't even be an issue'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woot, more fun in St Louis'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The El Drakoth slaps Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'racist'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'no such thing as bad publicity'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how about the publicity you get when you are a grizzly murder victim?'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'so your dead or just badly maimed?'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well since you obviously either don't speak english or are just being contrary I am done with this debate :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, that was quick'
T3/r7/2014-12-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is a grizzly murder victim a bear that has been pre-meditatedly killed?'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Kristen's Christmas Past" (on tv at 2am this Xmas morning) was an okay Christmas movie (although the 17 year difference (2013 - 1996) did strain the believability of the agape ending)'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'According to a report by the International Energy Agency last month, most producers in North Dakota's Bakken formation, an area that's been a key contributor to the shale revolution, can remain profitable even if oil falls to $42 per barrel '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'stick it to opec.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US should stop making the penny, and create a 2 cent coin instead, and get rid of the $1 bill...make people use the $2 bill more.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'think we stopped printing 2s'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, they still print the $2 bill, just not many.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can get em at any bank.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is harder to find a bank that has $1 coins though....usually you have to order them.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'vending machines here give them'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not sure why, but few people seem to like the $1 coin....I love them.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I don't have a use for them'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the avg $1 bill lasts about 4 years now, and the coins 20+ years, so it makes sense to make them and phase out the $1 bill.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just print less of them each year, and more of the $1 coins.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'start with the penny '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'costs 1.4 cents to make a penny now....replace it with a 2 cent coin.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scrap 1 and 2's'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have 5 as the minimum'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'no just start with a nickel... to much to mint $.02'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The El Drakoth: 'remove one problem to create another? that doesnt even make sense, just get rid of the penny entirely'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's your own government's fault for inflating your currency since coming off the gold standard'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'it will fuck with walmarts x.97 price scheme'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ours is no different, but we switched to plated steel coins in 1997'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, it wasnt a problem until the price of zinc skyrocketed because of a lack of new zinc mines.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation is the government's way of passing all their debts onto their children, pretty sick really'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the old zinc mines are almost mined out.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and for making it difficult to pass wealth on to the next generation)'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'we pass on debt instead'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's because of the debt they run up they then require the inflation for'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'debt is a good thing, but too much debt is a bad thing.  We are close to having too much debt.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're well past too much'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps you are, but we can still pay down our debt to foreign nations.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we can't'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'might as well as just wait and see what happens '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was it possible to do anything else?'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$50 oil is like a $150 billion savings each year though.....use that extra money to lower avg debt loads.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'many people did after 2008.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll use it to ship democrat voters in from mexico'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it won't help OUR debt since we're not a big oil producer'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'uh, low oil prices save you money if you are a big importer, not a big exporter, unless you also use a lot of oil like the US :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US used to import almost 70% of its oil, now we only import about 45%'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's barely helping anyone here at all, other than wiping out the remaining jobs in the North Sea oil fields'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the problem is population. too many laws that go against natural selection'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gas prices here have dropped, maybe 10%'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'increased efficiency in vehicles is one of the major factors in the US drop of oil imports.....plus an additional 1 million barrels of oil from north dakota, Texas and a myriad of other states combined.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is too bad the gov of NY is retarded, he just cost the state over $200 billion in the next 30 years.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how did he do that?'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'weak minded people r the majority and they rule. all we can do is hope we have enough wits to survive. there will bbe a pu'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he banned fracking'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'purge. they arent retarded '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'canadian tar sands is now profitable at $22 a barrel....wtg canadian oil companies, keep up the good r/d'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'most politicans are well to do. i think they proved the laws dont apply to them.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'look at rob ford hahaha '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US has its own version of tar sands, but unfortunately it is too deep to be economically extracted right now.....about 2 trillion barrels worth.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Japan is pretty smart...they are investing big bucks into building the Alaska natural gas pipeline from the north slope....they can get a long term contract for natgas.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'makes a lot of sense to export natgas from Alaska instead of from the lower 48 states.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska needs to build some casinos.....a large travel group just rated Alaska as the #1 destination in the US for domestic travelling, beating las vegas.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I think you mean las vegas needs to build glaciers.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they could freeze the hoover dam.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas has become a dominant oil producer, boosting its share of U.S. crude production from 25% to more than 40% over the past five years.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Why is it that when a black shoots a black, the black community does not get up in arms.....'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'it removes the racial elements'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'I am bothered by the non-facts that low income individuals riot and steal things making peaceful demonstraters look bad.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'what proof do you have they are low income?'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'could be drug dealers'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Turie: 'Fine...."Shady people"'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'sometimes it is affluent punks out for a thrill.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'peaceful protestors do very little to ensure that things stay peaceful '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I would, I'm not fond of getting hurt'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they allow these punks to mingle with them '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'at least imo'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'what are they going to do, gang up on the puinks'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the "establishment" sent "rabblerousers" to suggest rioting and looting among the low-income (or maybe they are not low-income but poseurs and professional-criminals) (and then the low-income follow and copy the examples shown by the establishment career-criminals)'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'set themselves apart'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not invite everyone and their brother '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'i thin it is the one bad seed thing, there isn't really a way to seperate.... '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hard for peaceful protesters to seperate from the rest, but in Ferguson at least they need to realise when they accidently switch from protesters to a screen for the looters.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only riots that change anything are ones targetting governance'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'criminality usually springs from the establishment'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ones targetting Target achieve little'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the "undercover" operatives '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'respecting free speech zones goes against the very concept of protesting '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the "undercover" operatives encouraged and paid by the "plausible deniability" establishment'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, despite protests not really needing anything to discredit their message owing to the natural way that bad eggs ruin it, the US FBI is world famous for agent provocoteurs'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in everything from black street protest to terrorist bomb plots'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well look at iq and how its dropped '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'iq has stayed the same, intelligence has dropped'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'true and even worse'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'however u cut it the result is the same sadly'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'increased sexual-depravity is likely a contributing cause to the drop in intelligence among some (sub)humans'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mechanisation and electronics, zela, not arse-buggery'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people don't have to think because they have gadgets to do it for them, they have media to tell them what and how to think. Bascially societal control'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'but did you (preferably not) view some of those depraved movies (provided by modern technology etcetera)'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your and my definition of depraved are some distance apart. I see twitter and facebook as depraved'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see party political democracy as depraved'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see the overpopulation of the planet as depraved'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not over populated imo '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2 women noshing at each other's bits isn't a cause for concern'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'just not enough quality '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is if you like the standard of living you're used to, Marikk'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"Bridget Jones Diary" was a depraved movie -- there was buggery simulated there '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i got the impression you liked buggary, Zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'my standard of living has always sucked. cant get much worse '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can, Marikk, and so can everyone else's'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts is obviously projecting his or her own depraved desires onto others'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'maybe i was taught to be too honest. '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a song in there somewhere'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the Old Testament was likely right in demanding that buggery be punishable by death'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we want to live in a sustainable way with the technology currently available, max population is around 3bn'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we're willing to reduce our standard of living to that typical of India and parts of China, then we can support what we have now'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'AIDS :: anally inserted death sentence'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we're prepared to have a standard of living similar to the third world and the poorest parts of Africa, we can expand to around 8.5bn'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'too many humanitarians worried the serial kkiller will hurt too much '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'that the death penalty is wrong '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd like to see the world population brought down to around 1bn'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'me too tiger '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'i agree, even though some people might deserve to die'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we can decomission nukes at the same time. Two birds with one stone'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'and go back to a trade and barter system, too'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'what do you agree with?'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'death penalty is wrong'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'money is fine, just pin it back to gold'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'If you haven't already, one day you will wake up and realise you were born into a prison with 6.5bn inmates, most of which are retarded. Merry Xmas!'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the use of the Vlad the Impaler method of disposing of the sexually-depraved sodomers  -- debatable whether that is buggary - perhaps irony'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'a lot of those kinds of people collect government benefits. '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'my prediction is that vigilantism will make a come back in the near future'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'so... i'm late to this debate.  but, tigernuts i'm pretty sure world can sustain current or more at a high quality of life *DEPENDING* on definition of quality.  so... for me no yacht - but good food, leisure time, health, community, etc.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'world probably could but thats not the point'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'perhaps i missed it.  are you referring to the "inmates" part of tigernuts position?'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'give people the means to sustain themselves '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'in the industrial world i'd wager many have that opportunity but either don't know it - or don't care'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'and not wellfare '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i'm not referring to wellfare, but to ability to actually sustain oneself.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they will take care of themselves through their own ignorance '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'there isnt much oppurtunity where i live. the majority dont care so it ruins it for the rest of us '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'i don't know your situation, but i'd say in a great many places where you can get a parcel of land, there's a whole lot you can do to feed yourself better than grocery mart or local vendor will.  and for less.  takes some time and application though.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'that is a good idea. industry ruined this area. few farms but you would have to be rich to actually own them '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'don't need much land.  a few hundred square meters of soil with sun access can be surprisingly productive.  i'm going off what others have reported - though my efforts have seen a few successes that confirm what veterans claim.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'also its only a matter of time before your crops would become contaminated by gmos'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'ur best bet is a greenhouse not open field '
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'contamination is a potential issue - depending on where you are and what you grow.  a greenhouse can be built relatively cheaply in many climates that'll cover the necessary land - though, again, i haven't gotten that far myself.'
T3/r7/2014-12-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rakkicr: 'but i'd suggest using contamination as a reason not to learn how to is not the best path'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'love all the weak excuses people use to justify scumbag behavior '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'even better is breaking their excuse to its source'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'philosophy is dead my friends'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pfft'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'what has ur nuts Tiggy .. ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my left hand'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'they have nerve endings ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not anymore'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'kinda confused on where bals cum into the equasion '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snowangel Tzadkiel: 'do balls have a suxual component ? are they like nipples ? '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'cartridge'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'is it in a pear tree?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Luxiat P
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but you said snes '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not snes cartridge in ur guess. lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'pinata'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'or.however u spell it'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'switzerland now has negative bank savings rates, as does Japan'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how can they claim that the economy is "recovering" while inflation remains high, and savings interest goes negative?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't that suggest exactly the opposite?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'to buy time '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'maybe'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kicking the can down the road because they can't fix it, theory?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a good time to have money'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or a good time to not have money'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'kicking the can while the gov preps'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'imo'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there really isn't an inevitable'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'sure there is '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without people they are largely nothing'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why stir the pot and then stop?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'its similar to the social security will be bankrupt by 2025 message of the nineties'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'what that means is we are bankrupting it now or have already and we want it gone by 2025'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if your social security is anything like our national insurance, then it was already insolvent decades ago because the money is not 'stored', it's commitments are paid out of current taxation'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'of course a new can of worms jjust got opened with north korea'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'centralized banking also makes recovery near impossible'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'north korea doesn't really change anything'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'sure it does'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'centralized banking itself isn't the problem, but the lack of regulation of the financial markets and creating money out of thin air certainly contributes to it'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'cyberwarfare is still warfare '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'North Korea is a basket case and will continue to be a basket case, they're forever making threats, but have no ability to follow through on them. You can't do anything with them'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'looks to me like just about every country is having it out with another country or at war with itself atm'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only thing that can fix North Korea is Russia or China taking them under their wing and gradually infiltrating them'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'now they cant google how to build a nuke lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they already know how'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i doubt that '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they just got the sega saturn over there lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've been detonating them for about 5 years in tests'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they just haven't got them small enough to mount in a warhead'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'but do they have lazers?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lasers are pretty pointless'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'only the ones dennis rodman brings with him'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'and lasers are not as pointless as one would think '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'pointless? pretty sure theyre great for defense'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defence against what?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'missiles, for one'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, in a vacuum maybe, but in atmosphere, i doubt they'll ever be of use'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'compared to decent rocketry'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to be fair though, North Korea threatens nobody save South Korea'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'theyre also great targeting systems'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'Lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and technically still at war with Japan'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'hey '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they're the biggest threat to themselves'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the leader of nk played a good part in the hangover movies'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'gotta give them that '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but really, what are they going to do? Send some angry propaganda at you? Parade some 1950s Russian military equipment past you threateningly? FFS, most of them are starving to death or living in permanent fear'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but if you dont believe nk hacked sony...'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'then im guessing you believe it was an inside job'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they didn't hack Sony, they've barely got electricity'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'claiming it was NK, or claiming it was an inside job cuts out all of the other possibilities, which are all more likely'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the most likely culprit is an independent group doing it for money, shits, and giggles'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'interesting perspective '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really interesting, blatantly obvious'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when Sony was hacked, their first demand was for money. If you were hacking for political, propaganda, or espionage aims, you would not demand money. It was a mercenary group'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've been hacked previously by mercenary groups'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they deserve it'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sony? Why?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why not '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't make any sense'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'sure it does'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do Sony deserve to be hacked? Ethical reasons? Political reasons? Ideological reasons? What?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they are just another corporation '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'liars and thieves '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that for a fact?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'sure they produce enough propaganda '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't it be preferable to vent your wrath on corporations that can be proven to have done wrong?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'corporations were created, and kept alive by, consumer demand'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'just sayin''
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sony are pretty lame, imho, in the grand scheme of things'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lame propaganda machine'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'd go for the financiers and the technology corps that are known to be complicit with the worst dregs of the establishment'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'though i do like the movies they have on pirate bay '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, HSBC, Barclays, Montsanto, Pfeizer, GSK'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'BP, Chevron, News Corp'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt Sony would even make top 20'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'ibm'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'dont forget them'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're busy dissolving their assets atm'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'busy playing the shell game'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they were responsible for millions of deaths during world war two '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they just want to dissolve so they can move their projects out of the public eye'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more power to them'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well remember no matter what people will complain '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but in the end can do nothing'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love all the tweets from spoilt little shits complaining they didn't get an ipad air 2 for xmas'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd give up all my money for a huge solar flare to fry all the satellites and screw the Internet up for a few years'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'alex Jones and the like are just stirring the pot while eeveryone else iis playing war games wwith a computer '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'a solar flare like that would kill millions'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'they arent just spying on us they are analyzing us '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'so much of the infrastructure depends on the internet'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'our infrastructure not the goverments '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a solar flare like that would not kill millions'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least, not directly'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'indirectly definetly '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's good, right?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get rid of the scum?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'yep'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i support the ones in power not the constitution '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i just as soon turn on them at the first sign of weakness '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'tis the nature of power'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's no good :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's no good :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'of course i wouldnt go completely based on that either'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'if an intelligent person such as yourselves needed help i would give.it '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'the rest would get shot on my doorstep and used for sandbags if shtf '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'your intelligence is a power all its own '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd soon find yourself taken out'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they probably have a file on you already ready to come take you away :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'i never said directly '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have to believe there'll either be massive wars, or massive revolutions rather than a police state and centralised planning'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'or, more likely, massive revolutions because of police states'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit of both probably'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'biggest motivator of revolutions will be poverty'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shortages of fuel, food'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'true that'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'but will those be wars in truth, or small scale battles?'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nukes'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a dicl'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a dickybird tells me Putin has authorised his military to use battlefield nukes in the eventuality that NATO deploys troops to Ukraine'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'merry xmas!'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what does the recently passed law in the USA state? We're going to bypass German and other NATO countries objections and put consider Ukraine, Georgia and MOldova defacto Members of NATO'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so really what Lindsey Graham and Harry Reid have done with this bill is write on the wall the fact that they want nuclear war with Russia and drag Europe in without their approval'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cheers America, merry fuckin christmas'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'as actors, Don Adams was a far better "agent Maxwell Smart" than Steve Carell'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'hard to start a debate with that :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'peter selers was also a much better inspector Clauso (sp?) than the remake.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I guess its the problem of imitating someone else rather than doing your own thing.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Peter Sellers was likely a better and more talented actor than Steve Martin  (also those two look different)'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Steve Martin isn't a bad actor, just not versatile enough to pretend to be Peter Sellers.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'they "miscast" the actors in the Pink Panther sequels'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the trailer for the remake of Mad Max seems to indicate it is going to be a movie about explosions.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'maybe they should remake bad movies that can be fixed.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Police Academy seems like a good canidate, good premise, so-so movie.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Steve Carell's facial nuances are not as good as those of Don Adams  ("less is more"). Steve Carell seemed to be "hamming" the part of Maxwell Smart (very slightly, something about the body language or delivery) '
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'Steve Carrell usually plays slightly awkward characters,  Maxwell we never with it enough to realise something was awkward.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'maxwell had a confidence about him.'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'as Maxwell Smart, there seems to be a very very slight grin on Steve Carell's face at the end of some deliveries, as though Sreve Carell were waiting for the laugh track or applause or praise that he "nailed the delivery" (but he didn't, unless into a coffin)'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a good comedy-dramatic actor does not grin at his own deliveries'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mael: 'who are you arguing with'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'we seem to be agreeing. I hope we don't get thrown off the channel'
T3/r7/2014-12-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'at least Ann Hathaway was attractive eyecandy in "Get Smart" (2008), although something is missing from that movie'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'Topic: fanfic copyright violations'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'Right, so I'm not getting how anyone could sue fanfic creators, as those aren't commercial. Worse come to worse the fanfic creators could claim it was a parody'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and they can easily afford to make Lasher lose his home, so unless you're volunteering to take on all of the risk, STFU :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they can't make lasher lose his home unless lasher broke some laws...?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who told you that you had to be commercial to be in violation?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'wait, is aard commercial?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'doesn't have to be commercial to be in violation...but Aard does have income'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SantAard Anaristos: 'if your child uses copyrighted material for his school project and the holders of the copyright felt like it, they could sue you and win.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually they couldn't win for that, but you could still lose your house in the process'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'wait, so I could get sued every time I make a star wars lightsaber crosshilt meme/'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'why hasn't 4chan been taken down then'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, actually I'll amend that to say "depends on the school project"...elementary and HS projects would qualify under the fair use laws almost unilaterally, although college projects can go beyond'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the majority of 4chan stuff qualifies under the rules of fair use, particularly the satirical nature'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and they comply with removing stuff that is in violation when requested'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'under fair use laws it seems that most fanfic is meant to "stimulate creativity for the general public'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'more than "for private or persoanl profit"'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: '20'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'furthermore, there is little effect on the work's value'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'oops'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'how the bleep would you even profit from fanfic lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '50 shades of grey profited greatly from fanfic...'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'technically, 50 shades of gray was an original work'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'it was merely inspired by the fanfic of a different name that happened to be written by the same author'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you can tell because the names are chagned'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: '(nobody is fooled, but lady justice is blind)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody was trying to be fooled...she stated right out what it was and how it evolved'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and you'll notice that 50 shades of gray has not been sued for copyright'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'even though the author stated that it was derivatory and it is clearly for profit'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'don't need to sue when you're already covered'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'my point is, if 50 shades isn't sued, then fanfic can't be sued either'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'if fanfic can be sued, then 50 shades would be beatne to death'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'your point is incorrect'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's like saying there are no pedophiles because the one you knew about decided not to bad-touch.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just because they can, doesn't mean they will.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there are more options than sued and not-sued...there's also made a deal'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'no, that's like saying that if the pedophile that goes around bad-touching young girls isn't jailed, then it's silly to jail the shifty looking guy merely driving around in a covered van'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'frankly there is little money to be made from suing fanfiction authors as they are mostly teenaged girls'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'maybe if you targeted the sites, but they would just take it down and you gain nothing'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'except hte hate of the community'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you don't get sued for violations when you've cleared the way for you to legally make it'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'at the end of the day, fanfic doesnt hurt anyone, so there's no reason to sue unless you're just being mean'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and nobody in big publishing business is ever mean, so you should be quite comfortable signing a paper to put your own house on the line to cover Lasher's butt :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I don't own a house, I live in my parent's. :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '(and additional collateral if your house isn't worth enough :P)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'but seriously, I get why lasher is doing this'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: '(covering his ass)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'but.... I was talking about fanficf'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SantAard Anaristos: 'there is nothing wrong with wanting a mud with original work.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I agree'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I was talking about fanfiction'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'unless there's fanfic on this mud too?!'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: '(ahem bard clan)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yes, most fans are fictional :>'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'm a fan of this mud! does this mean I'm fictional?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'your existence is highly suspect in my sphere of influence, and you haven't been too keen to prove otherwise...'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I have pix'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SantAard Anaristos: 'remember the rules about obscene material.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I don't know what you're talking about anaristos, I was merely going to post my facebook profile photo'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that you would even suspect me'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SantAard Anaristos: 'that's why I reminded you of the rules :>'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Aimbot gasps at the implication that he is obscene
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how do I know their really you, and how do I know that you're not the hot blonde in the forefront versus the beefy black milf in the background getting arrested (queen latifa reference)?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'that's it anaristos you've offended me once too many times, I'm calling an imm'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SantAard Anaristos points excitedly at Endless Broud!
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'hard to type in handcuffs, amigo'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'remind me never to take an asian airline'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'okay, never take an asian airline'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks for that, much appreciated'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'anytime :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): BOOK(worm) JellyMonster looks at you and chants, "H! E! R! O!... IMWatching Abelinc is my Hero!!!"
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'ur name is from an over rated movie. you demean yourself. u eat cheetos get grease all over they keyboard and ur cat wears a sweater'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'all cats and dogs should wear clothes. nude animals are disgusting'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Swiftly you jerk open your jacket, trying to get him to notice you.
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): .... Hwuaijijal has just projectile vomited all over your nice, clean armor!
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'my dinner was herring and onions'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'then animal cruelty rates would increase'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: '"see the way she dresses. she was asking for it" '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, someone else who sees no distinction between humans and other animals'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'many things make us different. but we are animals in the end'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'after consuming 1000 fiction um.. items (novels,movies etc), do you think a person is saner/smarter/.. or more deluded/crazy/...?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'who knows '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'but '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i would say smarter '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'and more insane '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i kinda agree..'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i am not quite sure what the definition of sanity is. it seems to have changed quite a bit'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'i dont feel insaner after watching superman or batman, nor any smarter.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'a bit more depressed'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'sanity. the easiest to put it - what you think matches the real stuff. i guess. but there's no measurments for that'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why so serious?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why not put a smile on that face.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i find it relaxing to watch certain movies. batman (any)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i think the unintelligent slighly crazy buffoons of the world probably find it inspiring.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'crazy stupid vs crazy smart'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well looks like the fourth amendment has been officially declared dead'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'what does it say?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that was the one about housing soldiers, wasn't it?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'right to reasonable search and seizure '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so what happened that made you arrive at this comical conclusion?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'if a police office unknowingly breaks the law the officer will not be held accountable'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, that's not specific enough.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'any evidence found whatever it may be can be used'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't see how that's a problem.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'remember when people got all hot and bothered because all those pedophiles were hiding out in the church and legally nobody could touch them because of confession privelege?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'here convicted pedophiles have their own church'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'and you had better have id if a cop stops you when walking'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in America, you are actually required to have a valid id on you at all times.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'thats not true'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'since when? never heard of that law'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'just like mother Russia'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why i dont leave my house at night. they always stop me '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're not required to have ID'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're not even required to OWN valid ID'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'makes no difference '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you cannot drive without it, but you can get by fine without holding a license depending on where you live'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ask all the people who complain they can't vote if they don't have one.  they do without an id.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'will have to wait until after the eighth cavity search to get my lawyer lols'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the id requirement to vote was struck down here'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yeah and in most states.  just pointing out some people don't have id.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in the meantime, you are mailed a small card that states you can use it for voter identification purposes...'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'well makes it easier for crooked cops to plant evidence'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and that you have about a dozen optional alternatives (driver, non-driver, military, etc)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'no reasonable suspicion needed. wanna come to ny and see?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'cops are legally able to run your plates just because.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I have no problem in NY without ID :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'lols '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'are you saying cops should have reasonable suspicion to plant evidence?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'u wouldn`t last here'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'no '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'u are obviously ignorant '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'says the one spewing crap with no backing :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'means they can search anyone anything at anyte'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'withou any reason at all'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's not correct'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'sure it is '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you might want to actually read about what the fourth amendment actually meant'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'why it doesnt exist anyways'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure it does'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'is that the one that enables gay marriage?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You giggle in his presence.
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'not anymore '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, it's the one that makes it a god-given right to shoot cops'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it exists the same today as it did a decade ago...'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'what non existent '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I wonder if it is an unreasonable search and seizure to peg my boyfriend'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'is that what enables legally-approved rape at airports in the USA'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I'm pretty sure the TSA has responded to my passive aggressive constant opt-outs by always pre-checking me now'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'supreme court ruled. cops wont be held accountable if they are ignorant they violated your rights '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'care to give the name of that case?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'given the NY protests, I'm not too sure many people actually KNOW what they're rights are.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so in the USA, citizens are required to know the law, but not the cops and not the supreme court'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Marikk what case? does that mean that like if they are just walking down the road and accidently violate your rights, or does it mean if they are just stupid and won't read the rules they are supposed to follow then they don't have to follow them?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'bbasically'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really, that's why we have lawyers'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: '... "the Court ruled that evidence obtained by police during a traffic stop that was not legally justified can be used to prosecute the person if police were reasonably mistaken that the person had violated the law."  does not seem as far reaching as the police can violate the law in ignorance, rather it seems to suggest a broad-minded definition of suspicion'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the use of lawyers: indirectly a heavy fine (unless extremely rich)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'well theres always the state ones... no telling hpw good they are tho'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that ruling stems from the general dislike that criminals get to run free on technicalities'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'heien vs state of north carolina'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'so expect more '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the law has been like that for years.  if they search your house because they think you stole something they will arrest you if you killed people and stored the dead bodies in your house.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'hanslanda that seems to ascribe motive to the decision, instead of attempting to understand context and externalities.  It seems like an unreasonable burden to place on any one person to have book-perfect understanding of the law before permitting a search'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'expect more rulings that uphold the fourth amendment? OK :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You pat Marikk on his head.
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'again, that's why you have lawyers.  The expectation is actually that the average Joe is as dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to the law, and that instead of suffering for his ignorance or taking on hardship in trying to cram their way to a suddenly better understanding he just hands it off to "his people" to take care of it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'look at the conviction rate. without money for a good lawyer ur screwed.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'that seems to be quite a characterization of the decision.  I'm going to assume you read more words of headlines and punditry than you did the actual opinion or case.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a lot of people have a LOT of misconceptions about what is against the law and what actually isn't.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'next you will tell me how great public defenders are'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're much less screwed if you don't get yourself into the situation of needing them :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'so no one innocent gets sent to jail'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'abelinc: yeahup, don't make the mistake of rolling poor, rural, or black'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they then operate on those misconceptions and usually get themselves into a lot more trouble, albeit most of it can probably be poo-pooed away by lawyers dickering with each other.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I grew up fitting 2 of those 3...'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'now i see why u named urself after a blind guy '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I've used a public defender once, my record's clean'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'rural?  I don't think thats relevant'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'sample of one?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'on a related note, did you know that nearly twice as many white people were shot down by cops last year than blacks?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'citation please'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't have one, it was a passing radio comment I didn't get to fully experience.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'yes citation please, I think you are right, but I can't find the data.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'We asked Medvedâs producers for the source of that claim and did not hear back before we published. Thanks to the good work by the team at fivethirtyeight.com, we know that there is no precise accounting of how many people the police kill. An unknown number of deaths go unreported because the coroner failed to note it or police departments categorize deaths in different ways, or some other data glitch got in the way.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'However, even the incomplete figures gathered by the government tell us that Medved could be partially correct and still ignore a huge piece of the picture. Yes, more whites than blacks die as a result of an encounter with police, but whites also represent a much bigger chunk of the total population. '
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: '"lies, damned lies, and statistics"'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'given the figures at hand later, that twice as many whites die to legal intervention than blacks, but there are five times as many whites, it seems to suggest without a strong conclusion that blacks are disproportionately killed by police.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'could there be any other reasons?'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but how many of either are killed justifiably...'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and how many are killed by their own "kind" vs others'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'if the black deaths were 100% justifiable, then by the same metric it might be that many white people were unjustifiably not killed'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'their own kind?  I'd like to think I have more in common with Thurgood Marshall than I do with some caucasian living in a trailer park'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'not to disparage people living in trailer parks :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'blacks make up 40% of the prison population, so are assumed statitcs of only 33% of the killings by cops seems white people are shot disproportionaltely by the police.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they make up 40% of prison pop, but they probably don't make up 40% of the arrested pop'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'black culture insofar as I've experienced it seems to encourage more machismo and aggressive expression, even in situations where the subject acts more "white".  Maybe I'm just experiencing their undesireables, but I kinda doubt it since I see this in more than just the "angry black man" segment.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'as gay rights proliferate, the number of gay drug users and gay suicides is dropping per capita.  So odd that giving people a sense of equality leads to more "civil" behavior isn't it?  What I find the most ironic part of the process is that poor behavior on the part of oppressed minorities is often used to justify yet more oppression, like some sort of insane feedback loop.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that sounds a lot like you're generalizing both parties to a really unfair degree.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'the idea that more black people are incarcerated than white people is either proof of racism or proof for racism, depending on what you're preconceived notions are about the matter.  Correlation is not causation.'
T3/r7/2014-12-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'your*'
T3/r7/2014-12-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yummy, black incarcerated people'
T3/r7/2014-12-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are people from USA and UK involved with the treatment of Ebola in Africa so utterly retarded?'
T3/r7/2014-12-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they fly back from the infection zone and then find out they have it, and then have to work out if they've spread it'
T3/r7/2014-12-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't they quarantine them in a nice 5 star villa for 3 weeks prior to coming back'
T3/r7/2014-12-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'hm. 200000 people killed in syria so far.'
T3/r7/2014-12-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Viscount Droki: 'Probably a better channel for this. Firearms in bars absolutely terrify me, and I CCW about 80% of the time.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stay out of bars then'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '200k dead in Syria, well done the west for supporting insurgents :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder how the US administration would feel if China and/or Russia started provided political and physical support for militant left-wing black people in their fight against the establishment'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Russia is right wing these days  y n'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'and omit the "left-wing"-label insult'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russia is largely authoritarian mafia economy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'marxists are typically left wing, it's not an insult'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'mafia economies are usually right-wing'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can operate in any economy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I don't believe in using terms like left and right wnig.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Amazing how left- and right-wing are still considered derogatory these days.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor do i, but others use them and don't understand anything else'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Happy 2015!'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'an individual's political views are too complex to be summarized in a single word'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'two more hours to go iulia'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Well, not happy for you.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'left/right isn't relevent to the question i posed, which was what would USA think if Russia or China was helping/provoking extreme members of the black community fighting the establishment in the USA trying to overthrow the government'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they would probably be angry at the relevant countries for stirring up hatred against the govt?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'but I don't think the ferguson protestors are going to come anywhere near overthrowing govt'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Which is a rhetorical question'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'We all know what happens when you take away a toy from a superpower.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts believes that throwing slurs insults epithests wins arguments'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'it IS the internet.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'epithets'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh well there you have it, aim'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'pot, kettle'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'diatribes  '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should never have got involved in Syria'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '200k dead, win win'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the world is overpopulated'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'buy a knife'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a lot you can do about that'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'he could buy a knife'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's he going to do, mass murder?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the world is overpopulated...go kill yourself so that you're part of the solution rather than part of the problem :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you could also buy a notebook'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'ill get right  on that...can anyone sell me a knife? :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, suicide is illegal, so you can't do it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so..people who even consider that are (a) so altruistic that we need them alive or (b) so stupid that they should be weeded out of the gene pool? :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they can throw my corpse in prison if they want'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'You'd be surprised how many suicide attempts actually fail'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: '(intentionally or not)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'jump off a tall building, that never fails'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do it live on youtube, then others will copy you'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Terrible advice - broken bones are one of the most rare causes of death'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'm talking about 30, 40 stories here'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty more useful things you can do if you don't value your life'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Penetrating brain injuries, on the other hand..'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about instead dedicating yourself to feeding the homeless? (Until you get arrested for it)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'arrested for feeding the homeless?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'soylent green'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'arrested?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Aimbot, it has happened'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'what crime'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some local ordinance preventing people feeding the homeless'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-30012135'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'is an ordinance like that even legal?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '90yr old veteran at that'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'it is in the US :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can make anything legal, including murder'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'that's one guy that's not going to get reelected'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'murder, torture, spying, theft - all legal if it's the government doing it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'yeah, 'self d'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'yeah, 'self defense'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Well there's your lesson for the day, Tigernuts: join the government.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck the government'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: '^'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'why is it that nobody actually likes the government but they get re-elected year after year'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the world is full of retards'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Yes, we're all stupid'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roughly 83%, Iulia'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'There couldn't possibly be any other reason, really'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I think voltaire(iirc) observed that democracy was not the most effective form of government, but the most elegant: since the people get what they deserve'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing wrong with democracy other than the size'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'i can agree to that'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'large democracies are not representative'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'nah, democracies are flawed because the amount of population that are easily swayed outnumber people who actually care enough to learn'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a problem, but isn't the biggest problem'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Wasn't Voltaire the one who'd said (perhaps an older Voltaire) that he preferred to have a king who he could attempt to assassinate rather than the corner shop owners' votes?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as you could tell by imagiing a situation where that wasn't the case'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'sircanada, don't forget the percentage that always vote whatever their parents told them to vote, and the ones that are just idiots'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'but that said, I do'nt have a better solution'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would still be flawed'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA has, SirCanada'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'that falls into easily swayed :)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'couldn't you commit mass murder to assassinate the voters'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA's democracy could be fixed by pushing your power back down to State level'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially breaking up the States'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'usa could be vixed by having vetinari take over'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'end the Union'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"stuck on labels" errors'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'which is why I strongly believe in benevolent dictatorship'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Hey, Aimbot is Voltaire'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'busted'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'in the USA, some of the laws assed by the States seem more atrocious than laws passed by the Federal government'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the point though is it, Zela?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'laws passed by a state only affect people in that state, laws passed by the feds affect everyon'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a consensus of States is likely to pass better laws that an anarchy of States'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will never get a consensus'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a consensus of States is likely to pass better laws than an anarchy of States'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the whole thing, you won't get a consensus because different states have different demography, different outlooks, different ideologies'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'in the USA, there is a consensus: the Federal government'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not a consensus'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'd rather have the illuminati take over the USA'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'at least they would pass consistent laws'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'consistent with what?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Isn't the federal government elected?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the Constitution of the USA is a consensus'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'some believe they already have, aim'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the overall illuminati scheme'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the constitution is a consensus, and took how many years to pass?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and then took less than 150 years to tear up'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'It was enforced, via force of arms..'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it hasn't been enforced for a long time now'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Oh give me a break'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'You could always move to another democratic country, if you even find one'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'why not move to like canada'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'or Constitutional, or whatever passes for freedom around your state'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I hear it's awesome'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so let's get this straight. Because you were under the apprehension that the constitution was enforced and now you realise it is not, your defence is not "Oh well, it's imperfect", your response is instead "well move!"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'I have made no such realisation'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the constitution is enforced but frequently amended'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'That was your opinion'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'iirc the current version of it is enforced'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was your reaction, if it was not, then clarify :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when was the constitution last amended, Aimbot?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was the 2nd, 4th, or 10th ammendment ammended?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I have no idea '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'm not american'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither am i, that's no excuse :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'actually, people are generally not expected to memorize dates about the political situation of other countries'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I bet its nothing but a quick google search away '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a recent supreme court decision found that, if a policeman gives you an illegal order because he was ignorant of the law, you have to follow it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SirCanada: 'context'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'so why aren't policeman saying "give me all your money" to people'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are, aimbot'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'shouldnt police be the most versed in law? and, if not, how would an officer go about provinv his ignorance?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Iulia buries her face in her hand and sighs, shaking her head.
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'reaaaaaalllly'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look up "civil forfeiture program"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Actually, lawyers are supposed to be versed in law'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'The reason eludes me.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Separation of ...something.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'are you talking about separation of church and state?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'well, after lawyers ofc'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'that goes without saying'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything else you're burying your head in the sand over?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're coming for your bank account next, btw'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Enlightenment is here, and Tigernuts is her agent. :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'laws have been passed recently which means in the event of future bank failures, depositers will be the last in line, which inevitably means they will get nothing. IN addition, rather than receiving government money to bail out failing banks, depositers will take the hit'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'loosely following a model used in Cyprus a couple of years back'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess it doesn't really matter much, nobody has savings anymore anyway'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my generation won't have any pension either'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Greece, the far left (Nationalist Socialists?) are about to come to power'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts attempts to twist and distort the facts in an attempt to discomfort  and enrage the gullible'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'They won't..'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which, Zela?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'yeah no'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'USA will be democratic for the forseeable futuer'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you'll have more luck arguing that in the future there is a possibility of such factions coming to power'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA has the same level of democratic accountability as the UK does - i.e. not much'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'but I wouldn't bank on it happening before google glass becomes commonplace'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'AND YET they remain democratic for.... hmm.... THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'its almost as though the country is founded on the basis of democracy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'North Korea is democratic - says so in the name of it's country'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and has a long history of enforcing democracy in other countries'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'unlike NK, USA does not rig elections'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NK doesn't rig elections, neither does Cuba'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts hinted at: recent laws passed (somewhere) so bank depoiters are effectivly unsecured creditors -- the lack of specific details is suspicious'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they just don't have pluraility'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-11/house-passes-u-s-government-spending-bill-after-day-of-discord.html'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can go read it, Zealot'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'lets stay off the personal attacks'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'an alternative rebuttal is:  when there is no plurality in elections, the elections are "a priori rigged"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the heck is plurality'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'it's a US concept. wikipedia can instruct you.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then by that argument, any electoral system where non-establishment parties are ostracized by the system is prior-rigged, Zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thus, both UK and US (especially US) are rigged'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"plurality in elections" -- more than one candidate'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'st'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'that's actually not what it means'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our systems are flawed. Are they better than others? possibly? possibly not'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'when there is only one candidate or only one party, no effective plurality'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'ah, and now we move into my specialty: singaporean politics'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh, a hateful place'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'singapore?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'no, the debate channel :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"plurality" is a fancy word to discombobulate the common man not so educated in linguistic deceit'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Whoadang! Iulia just threw an "oooh snap!" at Lackluster Lachdanan. 
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'pluarlity means "most votes wins" which seems fair to me'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'at least according to wikipedia'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're the only candidate, Aimbot, of course you'll get the most votes'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Singaporeans wouldn't know, really, Aimbot.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'oh, snap!'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'heh. PAP are expected to lose their dominance in the upcoming GE though'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Yeah, let's wait on that'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I don't want to seem like a punter but LHL's "checkmate" speech sounded really bad to the average singaporean especially with the screwups by govt '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"plurality" is something that is "plural" -- "majority of votes" is not exactly a plurality or not the only plurality'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'It'd be a nice step forward if they lost dominance, but the status quo in Singapore is very well entrenched in law & local economy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'PAP looks like a nasty lot'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they aren't really cruel to us '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just generally, Singapore looks like it's run by a bunch of despots'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they just refuse to let us choose another leader'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'I wouldn't call them nasty, Singapore is one of the best places to live in'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd hate it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'singapore is cool in some ways'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'not so good in others'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Almost like any other place, huh? :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'It's really like living with your parents... they aren't excactly abusive of their power like NK, but they are arbitrarily restrictive and you can't choose a more liberal pair!'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'The United states is cool in some ways, and not in other ways too.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs. Singapore came 140 out of 167 countries in the 2005 Press Freedom Index'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"plurality" almost seems to be a post-modernism misnomer that overlays a word with an obscure and thus false or specifically-slanted meaning'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'd trade the freedom to kill people for the assurance that I won't be killed'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'freedom meanbs a lot but it isn't everything'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and our civil rights are legit'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'anti-homosexuality laws are being repealed, bigots are getting crushed, oppressive culture is being lifted'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the police are still scary guys though'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your civil rights, according to the blurb, are lacking - just you have an allegedly corruption free state, so what is the law at least is consistently applied'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I live in singapore and I find my civil rights to be decent'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'compared with the ones I would get in US'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Lived in both places, can confirm. At least, I never got beat up by police in Singapore. *whistle*'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I've gotten the ivar scared out of me by police in singapore'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Story time.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'but some say (some Christian waving the Apocalypse) that God is going to crush and ruin the sexually-depraved societies'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'not much to say, they raided a lan shop, caught me wearing school uniform, gave me the evil eye'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'doesn't sound much but their reputation is.... nasty'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'like Sodom and Ghommorah?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they could easily haul me in on some random charge and lock me up '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can be arrested for not flushing a toilet, posessing pornography, or selling chewing gum. Really?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Yes, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'tigernuts, those laws are not enforced'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'except the gum'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'gum is like hard drugs here'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they're not enforced they should be repealed'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and now we proceed to law 377A'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'gum?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'yup'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'illegal to sell gum'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'some laws are meant to be kept in reserve'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'what about it's use?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds absurdly authoritarian to me, add to which the high population density and nasty climate, then no thanks'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'we have fearless commandos who smuggle in like 2 packets at a time through customs from malaysia though'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I prefer singaporean climate to the horrible dry european one'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'ontuct, to prevent littering'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ain't dry here ;-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I just visited spain and had my skin peel off'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'it sounds scary but the poliec mostly leave you alone'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they have a lot of stuff they could get you for but they usually leave you in peace if you aren't doing anything stupid or blatant'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the kind of system i'd want to live i'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'if you hawk a couple of packets of gum to your mates for ten bucks they won't care'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'if you set up a stall offering gum a policeman will tell you to close up shop and disappear scarpish'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: '$5 per pack?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'if you continue they will probably fine you'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I can freely have gum and dislike it.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'if its good quality chewing gum and a big pack I wouldn't mind five bucsk for it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'we all want what we can't have'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and personally I like gum'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't have?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just have it anyway, tell them to fuck off'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Yeah, you should try that.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'good way to get a trip to your local police station'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so burn it down'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'threatening a police officer'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I know because I know a guy who used to be in police.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'telling a police officer to fuck off isn't threatening'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Lackluster Lachdanan raises an eyebrow at Tigernuts's weird actions.
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'Seriously, you sound like any mindless "anarchist" or "anti-government" drone'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'try it anywhere and you won't be well liked tiger'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'telling them you're going to cut their bladder open and rape their kids might be'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I know a guy who was interrogated for hacking library computers to let him borrow books faster at the automated check out'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'no joke'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'you crossed into criminal threatening'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'he moved to canada to dodge national service and lived happily ever after'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you do realize if I said that to a police officer I would get pinned down, handcuffed, brutally interrogated and fined/jailed/caned?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'so I'll pass on that thanks'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'i wonder how long tigernuts would get on his world tour, going from country to country and telling police to "fuck off"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the censorship laws are annoying though'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't do it here, Lachdanan, better to play them for a lawsuit'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'He'd probably die around Greece/Turkey, or those parts'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you will not win any lawsuit against the police in singapore'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well actually i wouldn't go anywhere where they're going to arrest you for chewing gum'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'because the police are siamese twins with the government who controls the courts'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the thing that really pisses me off is the censorship'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'You would, Tigernuts, because up until now, you didn't even know that..'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you aren't allowed to criticize the government online or offline, circulate pornography '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not allowed to criticize your ultra-shitty hitler inspired Singaporean government?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'unless you want a defamation lawsuit right up your ass'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with your prime minister that looks like a paedophile?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'that statement would have gotten you fined in singapore'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'God save the Queen :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were better off as a colony'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'no joke mate, roy ngerng just got rekt for accusing the government of appropriating funds'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'he's persona non grata in any employment work and got fined a loooot of money'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't that called taxation?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'nah, it was a CPF case'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'All these slurs are very rich, coming from a British subject'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'basically the government forces you to save money every year in a special account and leaks some of it to you when you grow old and retire'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and ngern said the govt was taking money from these accounts'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Aimbot, the difference between your system and the UK's is that in Singapore, you're forced to save into a retirement account. In the UK, the government just takes ALL of your savings then tries to pay out retirement out current taxation and wonders why it can't afford it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'see? we're not so bad after all'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'every country has its pros and cons :)_'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can tell a country is going down the tube when they abolish jury trials'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'm willing to give up my right to talk trash to the police and sell gum if its means lower crime, good food and a community of sociable people'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about those that are not?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'we never had jury trials btw, ours was always judge'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you had jury trials until 1970'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'those are not spoken off'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'lol'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, they don't want you knowing your law is based originally on English Common Law'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'trial-whose-name-must-not-be-spoken'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'plus we only gained independence in 1965 so it could be argued that they just never got around to banning them until 1970'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'which is plausible given the chaos of that period'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like a nice place to live if you're rich and don't mind cities'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'where? singapore?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'yeah, the rich have it good here'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, it did do better, by 2010 it was rated 136 out of 178 in the Press Freedom Index'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the lowest rated european country is Greece, at 99/170'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA is 46'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'were you aware that the UN Declaration of Human Rights is utterly worthless?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why did Australia and USA vote against recognising Palestine as a state?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'probably because they don't think palestine should be recognized as a state'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess if it were sorted out, they'd have less excuse to profit from arms sale to Israel'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'there you go, you answered your own question'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound like a terribly ethical or egalitarian justification '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so much for championing freedom, democracy, and doing the right thing!'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'only a nutjob thinks any large for-profit organization is trul altruistic'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that does appear to include most americans :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'USA and australia are in it for the money and profit, just like most other people'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'we should stay off the personal attacks'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where's the personal attacks?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'you just made an offensive generalization about americans'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote neocons in, you get that type of policy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'what's neocons'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is an entirely fair generalisation'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'i take offense to that statement! :P'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I maintain that it isn't fair to call most of a very large country nutjobs'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'but I guess if we were to disagree about this we could consult an imm '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a democracy, and the democracy voted for warmongering nutjobs :-)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'we talked about WHY democracies fail earlier'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'they might be easily swayed, which makes them gullible not nutjobs'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'or perhaps ALL the candidates are warmongering as warmongering equals profit and most humans like profit'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'i think your generalisation about people being idiots for what they believe is just as likely to be considered a personal attack, aimbot'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Aimbot supplied the general slur starting with "only a nutjob .." which indirectly targetted "most americans" (according to Tigernuts)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Neocons are those who advocate the "assertive" promotion of democracy and promotion of "American national interest" in international affairs including by means of military force'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'the statement "for-profit organizations are purely altruistic" is blatantly false.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'in other words I was saying "nutjobs believe stupid things" and he said "americans are nutjobs who believe stupid things"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'unless you would like to argue about whether that statement was in fact blatantly counterfactual'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I mean, it's right in the name."for-profit"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you believe the USA is a democracy, Aimbot, then that statement holds'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'i would like to argue that threatening imm action was not really a compelling argument'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so Aimbot and Tigernuts (in cahoots) did the "attack"  (which though is not a "personal attack")'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I wasn't threatening imm action'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'apologies if I came across that way'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I merely wished to save him from embaressment should an imm poke his/her head in and issue a warning for personal attacks'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I would also argue that calling people who believe stupid things nutjobs isn't really offensive as nobody thinks that he believes a stupid thing'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most western countries are just as bad, Aimbot, but USA is the worst'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'therefore it is not personally offensive'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Tigernuts did not say "americans are nutjobs who believe stupid things" -- Aimbot did'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'tigernuts the USA is a democracy in the sense that its leaders are elected via voting'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'uhhh no zela'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I said "it is nutjobby to believe that a large for-profit organization will act purely altruistically'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and he generalized that to mean "all americans believe such"'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'replace "all" with "most" and you're about there'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'to be fair I'm sure there are european and asian nutjobs who believe that statement'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Aimbot falls down laughing.
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Aimbot was attempting to use Tigernuts as a dummy puppet  (ventriloquism)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'I'll just say that I did not intend to personally attack anyone, but merel'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'merely pointed out that it was foolish to believe certain things'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aimbot: 'and now I have to go to bed. good night'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'night!'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'id like to argue that the us is a republic (theres a more specific term but cant recall it'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'as it certainly isnt a tru democracy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'true*'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US used to be a republic'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's now a corporatocracy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'hmm, id say its a mix of the two, leaning heavily towards corporatocracy though'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'what with theyre eligqble to all the rights as a person, top big to fail, etc'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'corporocracy'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lackluster Lachdanan: 'they aren't eligible to vote'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporatocracy doesn't have a governmental system of it's own, so it leeches upon the system currently there'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luxiat: 'not directly, no...'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why the US system and the UK systems are different, but are both still corporatocracies'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'is it more advantageous to have the ability to choose your weaknesses or your strenths. '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'i will say weaknesses '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Earlier this week, police in Sunderland, an English town relatively close to the border with Scotland, arrested a man after he sent out a bad taste joke on twitter making light of a tragic accident where a garbage truck ploughed into people on a sidewalk. Northumbria police arrested Ross Loraine on charges of 'malicious communication' under The Communications Act after he tweeted 'So a bin lorry has apparently driven in 100 people in Glasgow eh, probably the most trash its picked up in one day'.'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'wow'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Iulia: 'The Communications Act is what the UK deserves'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'ironic'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'he got black bagged so to speak'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, a British TV personality was reported to the police while speaking (filming) with a group of "fat activists" and diet bloggers for asking them why they were fat. The reporting person believed it was a hate crime'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'doesnt sound any better for.him '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'start of their witch hunt'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, Millionair Big Bang Theory actress Kaely Cuoco was receiving death threats and other abuse on Twitter after mentioning in an interview  that she cooks for her husband 5 nights a week, that it makes her feel like a housewife and she loves taking care of him'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Marikk: 'makes her a cheapskate '
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Shanghai New Year crush kills 35, injures 42 more'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what high population density does for you'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(isn't CHinese new year supposed to be a different date?)'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US government paid for 327,653 babies to be euthenised in 2014'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'euthanized? or are you talking aborted?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same thing'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if people really are dumb enough to need abortions, is it really right they should be paid for by tax payers?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'do you want to pay for the abortion or the support care and upkeep of an unwanted child?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'a $10 morning afterpill is a bargain'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'i make nachos'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither, really, but there'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'what about adoption'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't we just pay $100 to sterelise them at age 12 and be done with it?'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'why not'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'adoption is good, but not getting pregnant is better'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'be come a magician and make it disappear'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'issue was making the public pay for it. If there was a fund that those so minded could pay into for it, or a charity, then great'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'they already sell sperm'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'selling sperm isn't the issue'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'popping out 12 kids and making the public pay for them is the problem'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'open a sweat shop'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'orphanigise'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Crimzon: 'like britian'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'brits don't, it's those immigrants'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what i find most hyopcritical is that the powers that be don't think people capable of having free speech, or the freedom to defend themselves, or to have communications or travel without being perpetually spied on, or to eat or drink or put into their bodies what they like without prior consent, and yet they allow people to breed to the point of bringing the world to the brink of destruction'
T3/r7/2014-12-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'interesting that Republican Scalise is getting flack for addressing a KKK-meeting in 2002 when the KKK were created by the Democrats'