T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds dodgy as bollocks'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it begins: Two british journalists in Turkey arrested and charged with terrorism offences for using encryption tools'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'of course -- I mean, why would you use encryption if you did not have something to hide'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why have curtains, or a password on your internet banking, or a lock on your car?'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'car keys should be banned, especially since my car is clapped out'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I agree, curtains are not that useful, I mean, surely window blinds work better?'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'window blinds are worse, should be 20yrs in prison for having blinds, especially on your bedroo window'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, I think you take things too far'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, so long as the government have the ability to look thru the blinds, then it's fine'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense, only a criminal wouldn't want the government to see them tossing off, or taking their girlfriend up the back passage'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'is that legal?'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '-n 10'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'oops'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ultimately, that story isn't really played out yet -- it will be interesting to see if encryption is the *only* basis for the arrest'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'in practice it just sounds like the turkish police wanted to get them for something'
T3/r7/2015-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Turkey's a shithole in desperate need of a nuclear detonation, anyway'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how nice it is that the picture of a dead 3yr old washed up on a beach was used to convince Europeans (and specifically Brits) to let more migrants fleeing Africa/Middle East in. Shame that the dead kid and parents had been in Turkey (not a place at war or where they were persecuted) for over a year. They had tried to get asylum in Canada and been refused, so instead paid smugglers money to illegally take them to Greece'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'what, exactly, is your point? that all refugees should stay in turkey forever?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'media should be a bit more careful at the things they use for propaganda purposes'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they shouldn't really be in the propaganda business at all, but we all know that's wishful thinking'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'what?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'propaganda? to report on a child that drowned?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they didn't use it to report a child drowning - that wasn't internationally newsworthy, they were abusing the image to drum up support for a political agenda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it's just one picture that exemplified the crisis that had been reported in the news for quite some time'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exemplified it by not being representative'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'not representative of what? the fact that people are dying?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, not being representative of people dying while fleeing persecution'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'why's that? were they actually turks or were they actually fleeing war and happened to stop in turkey while trying to migrate legally?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were asylum seekers that had applied for, and had been granted asylum in Turkey and had been there for over a year'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the kid died because they paid people smugglers to get them into Greece illegally'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they were not granted asylum in turkey.'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'the kid died because they were forced to flee their home country, thus did not have valid passports, thus their aslyum application was rejected by canada because turkey would not issue exit visas'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they were in turkey only because they had no choice, was trying to seek help from relatives (who were willing to offer it) but was prevented from leaving turkey because they did not have valid documents, because they were literally running for their lives'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were running for their lives in Turkey? from whom?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they didn't have documents because they fled for their lives from syria'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't excuse their actions'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'so, we get back to the fact that you think these refugees should just stay in turkey forever?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'until they are processed, yes'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the law'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they CAN'T get processed in turkey'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure they can'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they literally can't.  UNHCR doesn't register asylum seekers in turkey and turkey doesn't grant exit visas for people without a referral from the UNHCR'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'so their options are to stay in turkey forever, undocumented, or try to go elsewhere'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Asylum-seekers in Turkey apply to the Turkish government (currently the Foreigners Police, but soon to be the Directorate General for Migration Management) for temporary asylum, and apply with the UNHCR for RSD procedures. If recognized as a refugee under UNHCRs mandate, the UNHCR will attempt to resettle that individual or family to a third country. "'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, but i'm calling bullshit'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're deluged so it's currently a long wait, unsurprisingly'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oddly, that doesn't say "Get tired waiting and kill your 3yr old by paying people smugglers to float them illegally to Greece in a rubber dingy"'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'the syrian situation in turkey is different from what you're reading'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, that's exactly the situation as from the UNHCR website'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's a lovely mess that the US and NATO have made for these people'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ironic that UK is the only G7 country that has actually lived up to the pledge of ensuring 0.7% of GDP goes in foreign aid'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it is not what is happening in turkey.  turkey issued some general temporary protection status to syrians'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'which is pretty standard'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, some 1.5m of them'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'however, turkey does not issue proper documents and papers to people not in camps'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not turkey's problem'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it IS turkey's problem, unfortunately, whether they like it or not, and furthermore, it is the problem of the syrian people'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't make them responsible for the death of this 3yr old, nor does it make it the fault of the EU for not taking in more economic migrants'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'the fact that you somehow think that a picture of a drowned boy is propaganda, as if it were a media-created crisis, shows pretty poor understanding of the situation'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it IS propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was part of a campaign to change public opinion'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it's part of the media's responsibility to report on what happens and the fact that a picture is moving doesn't make it propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had it been any other possible situation, they would have been banned from putting a picture of a drowned infant on the front page of the newspaper'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'the fact that public opinion was swayed but a touching picture doesn't mean the media is running a propaganda campaign'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in this case it was'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'a fundamental aspect of propaganda is that it's false or misleading information, none of which is true.  in fact, the only reason you know anything about the boy's family and their circumstances is due to reporting from the media'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'if it were propaganda, the media would have falsely reported that the family were forcibly removed from turkey and forced onto a ship or something.  that is propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'properly reporting the facts and the situation makes it literally the opposite of propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is false, they were in a safe country and chose to bypass the regular means of being relocated'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not like they jumped in a boat at syria or libya and died on route'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and no one said they did'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's misrepesenting their plight'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, they did'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'again, the ONLY reason you know ANYTHING about them is because of what is being reported in the media'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and we only learn the truth days after it's been abused'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was presented as people dying fleeing Syria and the truth is it was people dying while trying to illegally enter Greece from Turkey'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they WERE fleeing syria'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they had already FLED syria'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and they weren't finished'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'unless you consider the fleeing process finished as soon as they cross the border'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as soon as they're over the border to safety then yes, they have finished "fleeing", hence the international laws on being a refugee/seeking asylum'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'so, again, we come to your idea that they should all remain in turkey basically forever?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should remain in turkey until they decide to return home, or until the turkish government with the UNHCR rehome them'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they can't go home because it's a literal warzone and the situation in turkey is untenable for both the refugees and turkey'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'also, you still somehow mishunderstand the actual meaning of the word propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a warzone -now-, but won't be forever, and as for untenable - tough, it's untenable everywhere'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why efforts are being made to sort something out'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it is hardly untenable everywhere'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why there needs to be organised responses and not just individual refugees striking out on themselves, that's how people end up DEAD'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm fully aware of how propaganda works, ta, i've ever read the book'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'yes, and that's the point.  that's what the media has been reporting on for weeks and months'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'but you see, the 'organized response' was barely there, and the organizing was more about who could take the fewest people'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why it's amusing that USA is now trying to block Russian efforts to start sorting out the problem'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'russia, known for their great work in humanitarianism'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also known for at least trying to stick up for their allies'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since USA created ISIS, perhaps it should be USA that sorts them out?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'which is fine, but that's not what this is about'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it's about you not understanding that a moving picture that helped sway public opinion does not constitute propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and the fact that the media's accurate reporting of the facts and situation of the boy and his family is literally the exact opposite of propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the campaign was the propaganda, the picture's use in that campaign makes it part of the propaganda, and no, they did NOT acurately report the facts'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'what campaign? to report on the ongoing problem?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have deliberately twisted the definition of fleeing persecution to fit your argument, deliberately and wilfully misrepresented the state/role of the Turkish authorities'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'i mean, if the situation is bad and the media continues to say "hey, situation is bad", you consider that to be a campaign?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but continually running "We must do something" "Are opinions changing?" "Are opinions changing yet?" are'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'no, son, what you have done is pretended that people somehow become safe or are permanently settled after they cross the border, and do not understand the situation of syrians in turkey'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Anyone basing public policy on individual cases is (a) stupid, (b) evil or (c) skilled at getting reelected.'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are safe'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise the definition of fleeing persecution doesn't end until they end up in a place that they want to go'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'they have no access to services, are unable to educate their children, etc.  they are in an undocumented status where their future is uncertain.  they are not safe until they are permanently settled'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'hey, exactly, you get it now'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not true'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all of those things are of their own making'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on presentation to the authorities they would have access to ALL of those things'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'into the waiting arms of all those bored immigration officers?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'this is the exact problem.  they did not have papers with them when they left syria and are not being granted papers in turkey.'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'you have this magical view of the situation where people just stroll across the border into turkey and it's all kum-ba-yah until things die down and everyone goes home'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it's pretty naive'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not being provided papers in Turkey because they've not gone through the processing system'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the EU's fault, nor is it the Turkish governments fault'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'which is entirely because they just don't want to go through the process, right? like, there's all these officers just WAITING to sign people up and all the syrians are like, "Nope!  Going to pay thousands to hop on a rubber dinghy across the mediterranean instead!"'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'now you're just comical'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think it'd be any better on the Greek side?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'psst, they're not staying in greece'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'or have you not been paying attention to the news?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and it's no better anywhere they go'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: '...yeah, okay.  you've gone through naive, to comical, and landed in delusional'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'no better anywhere they go? alrighty'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think it's better being undocumented in Greece compared to Turkey, or Hungary, or Germany?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'if you really think that undocumented refugees are going to be in the same situation in turkey as in germany then i think we're done here'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'around 8,000 refugees are turning up in Germany each week at the moment'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if Germany opens it's arms to them, aside from the colossal shitting on other people's plates that does to the rest of the EU, what message do you think that's going to send to the other 10 million in camps/displaced in Syria?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cos I can tell you, this shit turns up on the UK, you can kiss goodbye to any future support of any US foreign policy ever again, I can tell you'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already most of Europe wishes America would fuck off and die'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the main opposition party here in the midst of a leadership election, the frontrunner supports pulling out of NATO entirely'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'ah, and the truth shall set you free! i see the reason you're so angry.  the idea of helping these people at perhaps some sacrifice on your part is appalling.  let me give you a shorthand phrase you might as well use from now on, instead of going through all that twisted logic: "Fuck you, got mine."  Say it loud, say it proud.  you'll feel better being at least intellectually honest with yourself'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm angry because we should never have invaded Iraq in the first place, never have toppled Gadaffhi in the first place, never should have supported the insurgents in Syria in the first place'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yet now the powers that be see fit to try emotional blackmail in order to get us behind sorting out the fallout?'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is "fuck you", but completely not for the reasons you just gave'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if other countries had delivered on their 0.7% aid (UK's was 900million to the Syrian aid effort alone) they could have built and staffed entire refugee CITIES in Turkey and Jordan and everyone would have been fully looked after and dealt with'
T3/r7/2015-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you want the truth, you can't HANDLE the truth!'
T3/r7/2015-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'do you think peaceful evolution would be possible? and if so, how would it work?'
T3/r7/2015-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'first you kill all your competitors and then you evolve peacefully'
T3/r7/2015-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada circles his hands above his head trying to construct a halo.
T3/r7/2015-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dunno if the nature-loving hippy-vegans realize that they are fans of enormous bloodbath'
T3/r7/2015-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dolphins eat sardines'
T3/r7/2015-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qtvk9znnnY'
T3/r7/2015-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vegans tend to be thickos'
T3/r7/2015-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Barbafappa Pleiades peers around himself intently.
T3/r7/2015-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barbafappa Pleiades: 'imm -h'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Citlalin answers 'force = mass * acceleration.  Let mass m be -1kg, let acceleration a be 9.81m/s/s and let positive a be downward normal to the ground. Then, force = m * a = -1 * 9.81 = -9.81N.  That is straightforward.' Yes, it is straightforward, but it is also quite wrong. You're guessing at a force by presupposing that the object actually accelerated downward, and then are coming back to us stating that the object moved downward so that must be how the math works...you're confusing the constants with the questions.'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barbafappa Pleiades: 'ohai'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barbafappa Pleiades: 'then how about #benghazi?!'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luclin: 'reducto ad absurdum? nah, doesn't qualify'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Luclin: 'I do not know enough about physics to hold any sort of ground in the context of the original debate, but I think by the nature of a person's actual weight versus carried weight being undefined makes the problem unsolvable anyways'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'total weight vs carried weight only changes the "+c" portion of the equation, though...it shifts the plot but doesn't change whether or not the plot goes to negatives'
T3/r7/2015-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Barbafappa Pleiades: 'like a diet?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A rabid marxist has taken leadership of the chief opposition party in the UK'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'queue cheers'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cue, even'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not just slightly leftie, but Bernard Sanders on crystal meth leftie'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It has been a while since I met an economic marxist, these days we've got a deluge of the cultural ones.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope he wins'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We can argue about which type is worse.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i'm sufficiently jaded with the politicians here that i'd willing wish a marxist to win'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Tigernuts ponderingly.
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has but one redeeming policy'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's anti-war'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'working theory will be that if he wins, the greedy will leave the country and the stupid will starve to death or kill each other. Think that's credible?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Buzzfeed tried to start an online shame campaign against a Grindr user for refusing to have sex with a fellow Grindr user because he was HIV positive'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thought it only a matter of time before it becomes illegal to turn a woman's advances down because she's a landwhale'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'where do you come up with these things from TN? I always wondered'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this was on Buzzfeed'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'do you actually go looking for stories that you can be outraged about'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is what passes for news these days. you socialise/dumb down the media, you get crap out - we shouldn't really be shocked'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'or does it happen naturally?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't have to look, it's all around you'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so unless you walk around every day with your eyes shut, you can't avoid it'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'you should probably click the "news" link to get actual news if you're looking on buzzfeed, and why are you going to buzzfeed to get news, anyway?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'also this "shame campaign" is such an effective campaign they don't even mention his name'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and the article is actually about the improvements made in the recent years regarding HIV and treatment and the social stigma that is attached with it'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and the impact it has on him trying to date'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'you should probably read the article before you complain about it'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'here it is, for those curious: http://www.buzzfeed.com/patrickstrudwick/this-hiv-positive-guy-gave-the-perfect-slapdown-to-someone-w#.rlbbYAl03'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'What happened on Grindr that day?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'Tom Knight: Ifd been talking to this guy for a few days, and he first of all asked me, gAre you clean?h I hate that term, as if HIV means youfre dirty. I just said, gIfm HIV positive.h And he didnft reply. So I said, gIf youfve got a problem with that, fine, letfs just not talk.h And after not hearing from him for a couple of hours he said, gOh, youfve got HIV? Ifm just not ready for that kind of complication in my life.h Which was frustrating and which was why I responded in the way that I did.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'How did you feel when that guy said hefs gnot ready for that complicationh?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'TK: Itfs a kick in the teeth. Every time itfs a kick in the teeth. Itfs not easy telling people Ifm positive. You worry about what theyfre thinking about you. I get some people who are simply extremely curious about it and will ask what itfs like for me and how Ifm doing. Sometimes I sense theyfre not interested in pursuing anything other than a conversation after that.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's social commentary'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it paints not being comfortable about banging a HIV positive person somehow wrong'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is absurd'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it depends why you are not comfortable and what you are not comfortable with, I think'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err no'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not wanting to fuck someone is a personal choice'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'When someone asks if youfre gcleanh are you not tempted to just ignore them?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'TK: Yeah, half of me is, and the other half feels I should challenge them. Ifm open about my HIV status, Ifm quite a strong person, and I can deal with most crap people throw my way about it, so Ifm trying to change attitudes a little bit. I like to see where such attitudes stem from, because some people make flippant comments and donft realise what theyfre saying. It can be complete ignorance'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it doesnft always come from a malicious place.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'People like him donft have any knowledge about HIV and donft know what gundetectableh means [an undetectable viral load occurs when medication suppresses the virus to such low levels it doesnft show up on lab tests], and donft realise that it means you canft pass the virus on.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'so it's about a little more than that'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'the point is, it's not a shame campaign against a person that's not even named'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's attempting to shame an attitude that is entirely reasonable'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's not someone saying is this all that I am?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'there's no shaming.  shaming would focus on the person making the comment'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'this focuses on the person the comment was made to'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not relevent, Veritheia'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'err, that's entirely relevant'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, even if it is entirely reasonable, it's also entirely reasonable to be bit of a pain to be on the recieving end'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, veritheia, if it were relevent then there'd be no article'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'what'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at least the article and it's followup conversation wouldn't have gone with the angle that the refuser was out of order'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://archive.is/V34kP'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'namely from the author: "Patrick Strudwick Simon, if you had read the piece you'd have noticed one salient fact: having an undetectable viral load makes a person uninfectious. So, what are those "health risks"? Do tell."'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.cdc.gov/actagainstaids/basics/transmission.html'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Can I get HIV from someone who is living with HIV but has undetectable viral load? "Yes. Even though having an undetectable viral load greatly lowers the chance that a person with HIV can transmit the virus to a partner, there is still some risk."'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'yes, fine, and that's a valid criticism'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and yet that's not what you started complaining about'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure it is, the article is trying to put forward rejection of a hiv+ person on grindr as a bad thing'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'no, rejection is fine.  see, the guy even says so:  Ifd been talking to this guy for a few days, and he first of all asked me, gAre you clean?h I hate that term, as if HIV means youfre dirty. I just said, gIfm HIV positive.h And he didnft reply. So I said, gIf youfve got a problem with that, fine, letfs just not talk.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that was the case then there is no article'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'the reason he got annoyed was because of the flippant attitude about it but then the article focuses on the difficulty of him, as an HIV+ person, in relationships'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'it's a thing that happened that lead to a bigger discussion on a related subject'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the article might be about that, but that's not how it is sold'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'are you not able to comprehend this? that one thing can act as a segue into another topic?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not news! it's propaganda!'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'what is it with you and propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'everything is apparently propaganda to you'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because so much of what is sold as news IS propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'i mean, you want news, why the hell are you reading buzzfeed?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I don't know, it seems to me it's like a bloke saying he wished he were not objectified because he has HIV'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'we've already established that you don't have a clear understanding of what propaganda actually is so let's not pursue this line of debate'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you call news spun in such a way to promote a certain thing?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I would call that news, TN'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you're American'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'are you objectifying me on the basis of my nationality?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Propaganda is a form of communication aimed towards influencing the attitude of a population toward some cause or position."'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like i got it nailed down, tbh'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'and you're from Airstrip One, apparently'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the purpose of that article?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is the purpose of that article to give a factual representation of HIV+ people's interactions on Grindr? No!'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'interesting the article taht definition comes from later says "defining propaganda has always been a problem"'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Does that article highlight the plight of the HIV+ sufferer in such a way to normalise the condition, play down it's severity, and paint the aggressor in a bad light? Yes'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you should edit it, if you have it nailed'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree, swalec, the only problem is that people assume propaganda can only be nefarious'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'if you go back a hundred+ years then sure, you'd be in a better position to argue'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'words don't change meaning, Veritheia'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you disagree with an article that you just quoted from as evidence to support your position?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'modern use of the word propaganda is much less neutral'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'heh, no?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'words don't change, huh?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their usage can change, their meaning does not'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'TN, I think this is evidentally untrue -- "plastic" for example'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'or "wireless"'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'really? here, have an article: http://ideas.ted.com/20-words-that-once-meant-something-very-different/'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_change'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'plastic or wireless have had additional meanings'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'for a less /American/ point of view, http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/words-literally-changed-meaning-through-2173079'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'you're amusing'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'like the kid in philosophy 101 who constantly tries to debate the professor amusing'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're trying to argue that propaganda doesn't mean propaganda anymore because stupid use it incorrectly'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not very convincing'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '"awful"'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"When it comes to expressing ourselves, the world has been getting it wrong for hundreds of years... literally."'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'original meant "full of awe" or "awesome"'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'of course, there are more precise situations, where words definately change their meaning -- take for example, "metre" which has change it's meaning several times since it was invented'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'point is, propaganda has a much more nuanced meaning than you are trying to apply to it, ignoring the past hundred years of the evolution of the word'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd argue that it has a much less nuanced meaning no'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'indeed -- most text has the purpose of attempting to influence other peoples point-of-view'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'i wouldn't expect anything more of you'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the problem, news just used to be news'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now news is news + opinion, it's not telling what happened, it's telling you what happened and what YOU SHOULD THINK about that'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i take issue with that'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'even if the news is entirely factual, the it's trying to tell you something'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'consider this news: today Brenda became the longest reigning monarch'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's straight forward, factual and true, but it's still trying to convince me of something'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'yes, because it was so much "just news" that airstrip one came out of nothing, for no reason whatsoever'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's trying to convince me that I should consider this important'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Veritheia: 'that one of the most important English authors of the 20th century just thought of that for no reason whatsoever'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit of a difference between "Brenda became the longest reigning monarch" and "We celebrate the fantastic and selfless sacrifice of Brenda who became the longest reigning monarch"'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'indeed,the former is trying to convince me of something, while the latter is much *more* jingoistic and propaganda'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but the difference is one of extremity'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have less issue with the first, because though not a monarchist, it's still of interest, and might reinforce my hatred of the monarchy'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, imagine the absurd situation where every news report refered to Brenda. Would you not naturally include that it is imporrtant.'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least i get that choice'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, what i think isn't the problem'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what all the sheep do as a result that is the problem'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, evidentally, you still had a choice to interpret that buzzfeed article in the, frankly rather obscure, way that you did'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i took issue with it'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i read it the way the writer intended and took issue with it'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'are you sure? I mean, possibly your read it wrong'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, i read it right'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was the same reaction i get when i see BBC shitposting science'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'maybe it's propaganda designed to stimulate outrage'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Buzzfeed, Swalec, that's unlikely, it's stupid media for stupid people'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'BBC? Science? When did that happen?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you missed BBC Radio 4 primetime news analysis program where they had a former 4 star american general on interview claiming that President Assad created ISIS'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the level of voracity the BBC sets for it's unbiased and factual news'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or countless BBC articles claiming that Jeremy Corbyn negotiates with terrorists because he once spoke at an event that representatives from Hezbollah also spoke at'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think that they were claiming that these claims where being made'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they repeated them far too many times for them to be just reporting the claims. It is also their JOB to check those claims'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't, you change your name to CNN. If you do it deliberately, you change your name to FOX'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'did you vote for him, then?'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'me? i'm not a Labour member, so didn't get a vote'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you didn't need to be a member'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you did, you needed to be a member or a member of an allied union'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'or an associate'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '3 quid and you were in'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm neither, i have no allegiance to the labour party and have never voted for them. it would have been improper for me to be involved'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'worth it, just for entertainment value, I would have thought'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it happened, didn't need it, he won a clear majority even without the 3quid signups'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'truth is stranger than fiction'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'anyway, good to debate, I'm going to sleep'
T3/r7/2015-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he was still there at the election, i still wouldn't vote for him, but i'd be less unlikely to vote for him the others in the contest, and i wish him well because he might force the other shitheads to get on with it'
T3/r7/2015-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Only with state govt can you lose money with the only bar around.'
T3/r7/2015-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'naughty Trump'
T3/r7/2015-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://tinyurl.com/p6hxepz - not even remotely dodgy'
T3/r7/2015-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you thought McCarthyism was dead...'
T3/r7/2015-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, Ben Carson came out and said muslims should be barred from being President'
T3/r7/2015-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone should tell him that Christians should likewise be barred from being President on grounds of them being retarded'
T3/r7/2015-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'University of California leaders are voting whether or not to give students the right to not be offended'
T3/r7/2015-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Attempts to discuss cultural or biological differences between men and women, between gay and straight people, or between different ethnic groups will be condemned totally, without any tolerance for speakers to give an argument,"'
T3/r7/2015-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Putin was at the UN today calling for a UN-based coalition against ISIS. I called it :-)'