T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'there is only one candidate.  the others are there to fool folks into thinking that democracy functions.'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Cruz wins the Rep Iowa Caucus.  Dem at 49.3% Sanders/50.0% Clinton'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'with 14% left to report'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Buffy Anne: 'Yep!'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'there is only one candidate.  the others are there to fool folks into thinking that democracy functions.'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'im thinking about devoting an entire function key to that statement.'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'annnd, done.'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'im thinking about devoting an entire function key to that statement.'
T3/r7/2016-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'oops...'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'alcohol. does it slow time or speeds it up?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Buffy Anne: 'Definitely speeds it up for your liver'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i expected to see 00:02 and saw 22:53 at the colc. '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '-5-1'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I suspect the mass of alcohol consumed could not have bent space sufficiently to affect time to that degree'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'everything going on under the influence of alcohol has more weight. that means more time'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'alcohol stupifies, so alcohol slows perception'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'einstein said that'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'more weight=more time. because mass is energy and energy is mass doing things in time. so. alcohol creates time'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'almost a "that's what einstein^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^ she said"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'ok xyliz. obviously your too drunk to send a meningful message'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'my point is proven with the black hole theory. you drink too much - you create a black hole'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'nothing gets out or in'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'new topic. can you distinguiss a drunken one from a bunch of 6 scientists who are arguing about black holes?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'NO!'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"sick" is not spelt "6"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Buffy Anne: 'Tell that to all the little kiddies running around the internets'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i think that the coolest observation ever (and for a long time ahead) is the stars orbiting around the milky way black hole. and that didn't even break the news:('
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'that insane object is real. its there. its not a theory anymore. '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"milkyway blackhole" - modern spelling'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Whatever. Everyone knows that god lives in the center of the milky way galaxy, and he needs you to bring him a starship.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'epic:)'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'not 1 spaceship. 130.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if that were the case, the starship(s) 'd be crushed the blackhole'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'No lifeforms detected on the planets in the center of this galaxy,sir.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'the bigger the gentler the b-holes be'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'As far by now, a nature of a "black holes" remains mystery - only a scientific hypotrsises about ultragravity. But it can be just an obstruction.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the StarTrek episode, where James T Kirk travelled to the centre of the galaxy, is fraudulent'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'flatulent ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '"martian mission" is a fake'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'The Martian was one of the best documentaries I've ever seen.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '"best" ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'avram- the thing is obervable now'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'observable ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duoHtJpo4GY'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'that's silly. you can't observe mars.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'ah, that !'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3qSr5HmGkI'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'It is assembled from probes'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'from deep space probes - "cutted and glued". Nice'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'sorry for the 1st link:)'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Somebody meet an UFO lately close up ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'green screen based documentaries'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'why bring ufos in'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Ever meet an extraterrestial persons'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'one black hole makse all phyzix topsyturvy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'who needs ufos anymore?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'maybe it was just big cruiser obstruct your visions'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'what visions?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'of black hole. maybe it is just a shadow'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'it is'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'did you know how much increase of a hate crimes and racism can little harmless extraterrestial incite in populace ? worse than resurrection of Hitler'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'so. we have a real black hole there. it fucks things up. no one can live there. can you accept that?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'no'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'what do you do?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Just send a probe first. Maybe there is a hidden paradise'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Or just a plain "asshole"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'a black hole fuck up so much physics. its abomination'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'nothing works there. even The real McCoy lawnmower'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'so. there is a place close by where nothing works. how do you feel about it?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Hwuaijijal, you talk as though you are inebriated (and or reside in europe (not UK) or western asia) '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'true. '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'still. there are places where nothing works anymore. can you even imagine that?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'maybe it is a weekend time !'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'maybe. but! there are places in OUR universe where nothing works. not outside. INSIDE our own observable world.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'if youre travelling on podship, remember - space radiation damage all of your equipment onboard'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'slowly'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'blackholes work exactly as intended, as blackholes'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'a mysterious hole ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gener: 'pink holes are the best...   <runs away>'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'see. in a bit of time, all of working stuff will fall into a black hole'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'if you forgot to bolt it in places'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'but did you meet any extraterrestials - "third kind",like with handshakes and such'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'why bring ufos in this sophisticated debate?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'with black holes'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'ok, ok. How much does a planet worth, do you think ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'sadly, some sci-fi was written for and or by the science-illiterate'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'Maybe your forgetting what the fi stands for'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'decent sci-fi is not supposed to contradict the known laws of science, with the "fiction" part delving/conjecturing into the as yet unknown areas of science'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'my point is. we have proven b-hole there. and its not a matter of belief or opinion either. that one b-hole gets more mass all the time. theres no way it's gonna share some ever. so. even if there is that one growing b-hole, thats just enough to consume all.. in time.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'unless it evaporates'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Eureka" the tvseries is extremely bad sci-fi (a painful to view tvseries, from the perspective of the science-literate)'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'so don't go wandering too near to a blackhole'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'You speculate on b-hole doom of all Universe in the end of time - with only scientific hypotesises on its gravity'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some ?scientists? conjecture the "Big Crunch" at the end of current time'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some scientists conjecture the "Big Freeze"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Not to mention nobody of those who live and ever lived thousands years after ever be alive to see that end of time'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '--- ONLY DARKNESS IS FOREVER, AND ONLY VOID IS UNLIMITED --- all other is just a temporal blasphemy'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some of the theories of Science change and are updated as more knowledge is discovered and discerned et cetera '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'in the 1960s, some ?scientists? er crackpots believed/stated that time did not exist before the "big bang" - the science-illiteracy of those parroting imbeciles was appalling  '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'that shy evaporation is too slow. they have to crank up their physics to give us eternal universe'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'cranking up the physics may explain and or conjecture, but "give" is not as likely.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'thats bs'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'science illiterate humans in a petri-dish called planet earth'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Outer Limits" music plays silently in the background'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'bs because what is invitable is that any reasonably big b-hole gains more mass than emits. unless some handicapped scientist becomes bored and proves the opposite.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'btw. are we still talking about butt holes?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'as the universe expands, those blackholes drift further apart, and are maybe unable to grab more mass appreciably -- unless the universe eventually contracts, whenupon the Big Crunch'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'those butt holes still move'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'the reason of accelerated expansion is a brand new thing that never existed before. thats tooo insane'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'that will stop'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'or else..'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'else the Big Freeze'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '...surrender or die'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '(you) surrender and die'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Milliways, the restaurant at the end of the universe"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'you and what army ? Pathetic terran fleshbag with beliefs of own false superiority, weighted only by numbers'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'more people likely read the books of Douglas Adams than that of Hawkings'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'you don't even got a colony on closest planet to your Terra, and still got such EGO ?!'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'humans already dumped garbage on Mars'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'dream on'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'you discuss b-holes with attitude of true immortal beings, which you are no'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'which you are not'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'your sense of future based upon your false belief in own immortality, which neither of you possess by now - either by science tech or bio'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'considering a b-holes timespan, your discussion is laughable'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'you even doesn't understand timeflow itself - always confuse it with your understanding of yours "decisional choises",which is not a chrono'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'if you like the truth, you will see death in your future'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'and even with a false beliefs of own immortality, with self-trickstery you know what is it'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"time is an abstract delusion"  '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"time is an abstract illusion"  '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"time is an abstract concept"  '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'your understanding of "now" - just an "amnesia of future".It grant you present, but you still remember the past. It was a long way to learn chrono'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'there's no need of time'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'thats the biggest blunder of all man kind'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'You won't and can't escape your global chrono flow, pathetic philosophers'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Buffy Anne: 'wtf is this rp debate?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'there is no "time", only the actual "now"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'nope. thats where philosophers win - time is a made up word for something much simpler.. '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'And you can't project differential chronoflow in planar space continuum either'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'ORDER'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Don't worry, Hwuaijijal - if you live long enough to be threated by black hole, probably there is some compassionate soul to drag you away from it, relax'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"differential" as different to "integral"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'time is order of happenings. not something independant'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'there is no time'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"planar" as different" to "volumetric" '
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'You can't even live for thousand years with your condition of medical tech research, yet try to grab even a chrono questions and researches'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if the world does not destruct and devolve society, some humans may eventually live thousands of years through biotech, unless some God actually exists and terminates the current time-track'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'If you want to understand chrono - film a day of your life, with your decisions and such. Maybe you understand, as well as understand that a "chrono" and human "decision" is quite different things. Maybe you understand, with luck, that there is no human decision influent chrono'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'well. time is a thing to bundle some events together. nothing more.'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Chronoflow is global, like plane/space continuum'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'events that happened in "that order"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'there is no TIME!'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '"that order" is only your "amnesia of future". You remember only past, don't you ? It is unknown of future that grant you "present"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps there is one entity (and likely only one) with the ability to influence the ...'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'There can be couple of different chronoflow PROJECTION on/in space/plane continuum'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps some of us are able to calculate some of the future'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'By sentient, "trained" animals, who call themself "intelligent"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"clairvoyance"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'But you don't calculate your past, don't you ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"lucky-guess prophets"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'time is imagined always. whenever you think of something at all. thinking "time" is something fucks up everything'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'there is just order of thing'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Nostradamus'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'happenings*'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'But this "order" is clearly present, ain't it ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'The Apocalypse -- some of the "guesses" are almost uncanny'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'the "order" is inevitable'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Beliefs of own immortality - don't makes you truly immortal'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'but to call it "time" is fucked up'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the past is able to be changed'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'history revisionists'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Try to - you present in the past,as well in futute. Do it, c'mon ! Heh ? Can't ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'You cannon change your past - and your future'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Did you don't understand your "chises" had nothing to do with chrono, with time ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"choices"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '"choices",yes'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps God delegates'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps God delegates choices'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'not to say that there is or is not a God'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Your beliefs of God/Goddess based upon beliefs in own immortality first, and as for world construct - this comes second'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'But immortality either can be artifical or natural, but neither any of this Terra inhabitants have'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps "immortal" is a misnomer for "i'm mortal"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps "immortal" is a contraction of "i'm mortal"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'It is tied with chrono'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"chrono" is a synonym of "time"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Aging tied with chrono, while invincibility tied with order of things'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'perhaps there is no actual "time" ("time" is an abstract concept) other than the perception of changes to the "now"'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'It is possible to achieve prolonged lifespan even with current tech - everybody know the living brain able to live with lifesupport for 300-400 years'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Pure brain, i mean'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: '"body" not included. Life support generate bodily fluid and blood'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'longer according to the Bible: (Methuselah).'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Maybe'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some say the Bible is a book of fiction'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'as does other religious literature ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'It all comes from mysticism - with burial of dead and such'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some say some Science is science-fiction'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'It is big difference between : when you trough personal experience know TRUTH, and when you with info from outside speculate and made hypotesises'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Back to b-holes'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'When b-hole threat imminent to Galaxy, Terran race will had already tech for normal space travel. Or become extinct. Either way, it is unimportant'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Discussion end'
T3/r7/2016-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ScubaSteve: 'am I the only one who suspects this entire conversation was just a pretext to say "B-hole"  alot?'
T3/r7/2016-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'bernie sanders should be the next president because he makes a great brooklyn hipster t-shirt subject'
T3/r7/2016-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'hm. i wonder if its even checked if cancer could come and go. and what killed it when that happened. i mean - sometimes people get well mysteriously. maybe that happens all the time before it becomes a sickness?'
T3/r7/2016-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'immune system deals with cancer on the regular.  sometimes it doesnt do so good, and then folks start noticing it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'why send people on Mars. thats just dumb'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i've heard absolutely no convincing reasons why they should go there. 0 good reasons.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its there.  since when has there ever been a better reason?'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'the dude has to have a good reason to go. all exept one is to avoid life as it is. the one thats left is vanity. massive attention. it works but is so dumb.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'nah.  see, thing about people is, they arent anything even close to rational.  noone needs a reason, most folks wouldnt know what to do with one if they had it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'to send a human is 1000x times more expensive. just because of the raw mass to send there, the budget would grow insanely.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'uh huh.  and?'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: '"insanely" is the key word there:P'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i dont know the math but to support a bot vs human, the stuff difference in kgs is not huge but enormous'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'and the end result is not much better'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'oh yeah, sure thing - and?'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'its almost 0'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'thats why its all dumb'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'what part of this question led you to believe that sanity was at issue?'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'just a waste. truckloads of money to get notghing back at all'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'somebody is earning monies from that venture though'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'nothing obvious and immediate, perhaps - which would make the project slightly better than most expenditures.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'then again, its hard to measure or predict the secondary benefits of such a thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'well. see. the thing is - they know very well there are no real good results sending a few people there. but still keep pushing it'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"some" not "most"'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'ah, i see you are an optimist, Xy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'no immediately beneficial results predicted, i think you meant - but then, that really was never the goal anyway.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'there is no real goal'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: '"send people. keep them alive" is no goal'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'you have gained wisdom :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'there are those who would say that keeping people alive in harsh circumstances is the only goal.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'me, i look around at people and say, 'meh'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'the more interesting question that occurs to me is, will the trip be made in the most direct fashion, or in the most beneficial one?'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'harsh circumstances can be created very cheaply here. a few years ago 2 eager workers climbed into an old tanker. they survived 30 seconds.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'then died. too little oxygen left'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'some would call that a failure.  me, i call it darwin's ghost at work.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'clearly, those are not the people we should send to mars.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'hm. yeah. i'd say they have to wait 1-200 years so that those people could start something. not just die off'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'long-term goals are nice to have.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'thing is, if you never work for them - they never happen.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'this "sending humans to mars" conversation is getting painful to read almost - like from a bad boring movie or something'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'not a coincidence.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: ''sending people to mars debate' is soooo many bad boring movies...'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Dumb and Dumber - the sequel" - inane conjectures on dubious ventures'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'ill see your dumber, and raise you 'leprechaun in space'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'well. it is painful to hear about the efforts to do something so awfully dumb.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"if they send humans to Mars, should the spaceship be painted red because Mars is red, or blue because Earth is blue" '
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'nope.  thats not even a question, because the only acceptable answers are white and silver.  maximum reflectivity is a must.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Leprechauns are green, so maybe green"'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'gold.  it should be metallic gold. because once you factor in lifting and construction costs, the difference between shiny gold and black iron is pretty close to nil.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'my point is- if they pull it off and send people there, that would be the dumbest thing humans have ever done. and with the help of the smartest people. the latter makes it look so sad:P'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'i think its funny that you call those two different categories of people :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'i was amused when the nasa team lost their match in junkyard wars...'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'at least NASA is not wasting monies on crackpot games'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'well, maybe not taxpayer funds - but from what i hear, kerbal space program is quite popular there :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'at least not as much monies wasted as the case if they won those "junkyard wars"'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'nasa should have outsourced then. like they always do'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'NAS is not supposed to waste taxpayers monies'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mannec snickers softly.
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'they almost fucked up webb telescope'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'yeah, look at how well hubble went.  they managed to mostly fix it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'so lucky with hubble'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'well. what can you say. they have to invent new stuff all the time that has to work the 1st try. cant stay mad at them:)'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Madcatz: 'Trump and Sanders are your New Hampsire winners'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'elephants have long noses...'
T3/r7/2016-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'do not!'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Samsung: 'id fuck hillary in the asss'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Samsung: 'when was the last time that shrew got boned'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Samsung: 'gtee sanders has been balls deep in college tang'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'it has bugged me for decades - why is anger so bad for jedis? i mean, adrenaline makes people perform 10x better sometimes. thats pure natural drug'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i mean - jedi's are fighting agains nature'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'jedi body says "yes", jedi mind says "no. lets be a pussy"'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'debate and tech are both blazing white -- this channel is used so infrequently, the blazing white here looked like tech'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'since "jedhi" is from yiddish or hebrew, look whether there is anger and violence in the Kabalah'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'debate is annoyingly red for me'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'red --> hence the desire for anger anfd violence '
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'hugs can kill too'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '(blazing) white is the serenity of Equilibrium'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the world of Equilibrium prefered to avoid crude disabling emotions (such as wild anger)'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'unsure what the moral of (the movie) "Equilibrium" was, seeing that at the end, their world degenerated into a return to and and violence'
T3/r7/2016-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '.. anger and violence and emotions'
T3/r7/2016-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i'm from the goverment, and i'm here to help'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'gun-fu.  'nuff said.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'its not normal to like going to dentist. but is it a sickness when you love it?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'depends on how cute the dentist is.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i mean.. the pain'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'I'm 50/50 as to whether I get novacaine'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shelkin: 'Alright, alright. X-rated channel+debate'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shelkin: 'is this a C-cup vs a D-cup sort of channel?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'anything more than a mouthful is wasted.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exactly.
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shelkin: 'Then that's situational ... because some mouths are bigger than others.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'ayup'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'any letter's fine by me :-)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so, the republicans love the constitution, but they think it's wrong for the current president to nominate a replacement for Scalia...why?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'because they only love the constitution when it's convenient'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'is it the bare fact of nomination, or is it the nominee?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'nobody has been nominated yet'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'but they threatened obama that if he did it they wouldnt confirm'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'nobody has been nominated, but they're saying they'll fight any nomination because Obama "only" has 11 months left.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'oh well then - this is the best time to object to the nominee.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'except he has over 300 days in office. the average confirmation period is less than 100 days. the longest was less than 200'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'maybe we go 11 mos without a full bench'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'that would be ridiculously horrible politicking'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'this is why, even though I don't like either side, I'll usually go toward the irrational dreamers over the bullshitting hypocrites.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'Trump doesn't know who to nominate, but he knows people who do'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jo Jo Jo Joelz is agreeing with that Bishoujo Raded person again...
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'trump wont be president. best thing that could happen for democrats is for him to win the nomination. moderates will flock to the left'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'bottom line is, the devil in chief can do no right.  with all the anti-constitutional executive orders, its a sure bet that his nominee will be poison - whomever it turns out to be.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '8 years of political rhetoric from the right has brainwashed people. Obama's been a good president.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'and, as an elected official, it is his duty to nominate a replacement'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'trump's job is to pull the crazy vote away from the black guy, the old guy, and the young guy, to prevent them from winning.  as a bonus, he will also make the republican candidate look better.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'if you support the constitution, you support Obama nominating the next justice. you can't have it both ways.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'you really dont understand anything about people or politics, do you? you can _totally_ have it any ways you want.  the constitution says so.  so does the bible.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'i liked what elizabeth warren said. if you think the voters should get a say, guess what? they did over 3 years ago when they put obama into a 2nd term'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'debate the bible might have a slight bias towards men who want things'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'pfft.  the voters are one of the least reliable parts of the system.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'and politicians are men who want things.  coincidence? i think not!'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I saw a quote from a New Hampshire primary voter who was voting for Cruz because they wanted the budget to be balanced and college to be cheaper.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if there are prior precedents of nominations within the last 11 months of a presidential term, then the Republicans are definitely "unamerican"'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'South Carolina is next, I'm sure some dumb things will come out of their mouths as well'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'mannec - the voters are unreliable, but that's what the republicans cited as their reason for wanting to wait'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'although if they do block a new justice i am eager to see what that does to congressonal elections in november with a bunch of annoyed moderates'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the hypocrisy from the republicans has gotten mind-blowing during the election cycle. I wonder if their base will ever wise up and learn that "the constitution" probably doesn't land on their side every single time in every single situation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'raded: no they wont'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'meh.  the voters chose the devil they knew, instead of the cardboard cutout running for the other party.  that doesnt make it a _good_ choice'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'the republican base believes all muslims are terrorists and the gays are heathens and taxes are evil. they dont care about information'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '11 months is 23% of a Presidential term'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jo Jo Jo Joelz nods at Xyliz.
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'well 2 mos will be sitting duck'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Obama's been a very good president by any measure'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'and I'll stand by that :p not great, not the best, but very good.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'by any objective measure. you assume people can be objective'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: '_any_ measure? nah.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the worst knock against Obama is the Bush-initiated bailouts.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'for a long time it was, "look how much more expensive gas has gotten!"'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'my favorite is when people say he's the worst president ever. have they even heard of buchanan? of course they haven't'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'cheap gasoline is a symptom of bad things, man.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'in 2009? yes. in 2015/2016? not necessarily.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'he gets the big comfy chair, he gets the blame, thats how authority works.  hes got the biggest comfiest chair in the world, he gets _all_ the blame.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'blame for what though?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'obamacare'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'communist obamacare obviously'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the economy going well? unemployment plummeting? people getting health insurance? improved foreign policy?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'bush's bailouts? O's fault.  el nino? O's fault.  rising cost of fuel? same thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'oh those are despite him not because of him </sarcasm>'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'obamacare is chrome rims on a car that doesn't run. Our medical system is BROKEN.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'they sound like good things, might even be.  still need to consider the harm that band-aids can cover up, vs. heal.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'your problem raded is assuming people care about things like facts and information. and the majority do. but the republican base? half of them still think he's a kenyan muslim communist'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'dont get me wrong, there are plenty of smart republicans and there are plenty of dumb democrats'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'the majority wouldnt know a fact if it bit them on the face.  even those who do, have a hard time doing anything useful with them.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'but the people who non-ironically scream MURICA dont think that Obama has anything to do with lower gas prices, lower unemployment, etc, because Faux News tells them he doesn't'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the "smart republicans" seem to be pretty much limited to pragmatic business owners'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jo Jo Jo Joelz: 'and that fits into their world view so they believe it'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'how much info do we have about the harm that a rise in underemployment brings?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'how do we know that underemployment is harmful? how do we know that it's not just a natural shift from an aging population and the fact that employment isn't a requirement for health insurance any more?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'sure, the numbers of 'people who have jobs' went up - but how many of those end up on the losing end of their new part-time jobs?  what do we know about the formerly full-time employed? not much... but everyone ive talked to knows someone who is now struggling, and want before.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'anecdotal though'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'have you looked at bronze-level coverage? the one most taxpayer-funded recipients get? i have...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'yeah, anecdotal - because facts simply arent available.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'we do have the macro level facts. just because Jim from down the street is worse off than he was 8 years ago doesn't mean anything.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'high deductibles, high copays, low payout percentages, and low payout limits - half the folks i know of who couldnt afford health coverage before, cant afford to use it now - but by golly, the metric of 'number of people with a policy' looks better and better.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'high deductible and high copay is good when you just need catastrophic coverage, which is what we were lacking.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'employers are even more strongly incentivized to reduce full-time in favor of part-time employees.  the harm that does to both the business and the employess is not a small thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I don't believe that for a second'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'catastrophic coverage is a fine thing - but ive never actually heard anyone talk about it before - the issue ive heard, from politicians and recipients, was always about the other thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the full-time/part-time shift is happening in countries without healthcare reform.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'anyone who was going to use that strategy to avoid giving people benefits was already using it, just they have to do it at 30 hours instead of 40 now(iirc the numbers)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'uh huh - see 'underemployment'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '(Debate) Raded: 'how do we know that underemployment is harmful? how do we know that it's not just a natural shift from an aging population and the fact that employment isn't a requirement for health insurance any more?''
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its a bad thing, location doesnt alter that.  turning experienced workers with a motive for loyalty into disposable commodities with little motive to learn or perform their duties is never a good thing for the business - it reduces work quality, speed, efficiency, and customer experience.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'it doesnt matter if its natural or not - the question is, does it provide a greater benefit to the employee than the alternative?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so good employees will treat part-time jobs as a stopgap or a stepping stone until they can move on.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'or are we getting into the "all the economic gains are going to the 1%!" territory?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some businesses are run on the principle of high turnover of intelligent educated desperate disposable grunts'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its a fine theory - except that there are even fewer other places  to go than before.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bishoujo Raded nods at Xyliz.
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'that may have been true in 2010 but it's not true today.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'everyone who has a job, thereby losing access to unemployment benefits, runs the risk of losing out - i have a now former coworker with exactly that problem.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'he just quit, because the combination of reduced child-care expenses and state-funded assistance pays better.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: '2 years ago, he was a full-time worker with health benefits.  his kid was doing fine then...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'a job without decent benefits is not really a job -- the polititicians that removed benefits from part-time jobs are callous crooks'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'a job without decent benefits represents a huge chunk of the 'newly employed' - part time sucks.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so kill the private health insurance industry and replace it with single-payer. cut the waste.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'the truly terrible part of all this mess is that there really is, potentially, alot of good to be accomplished - not just for individuals, but also for the nation as a whole.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'i have very little faith in my government's ability to accomplish important things efficiently, in a timely fashion, or at a reasonable cost.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'anyone who has seen the bottomless pit of despair that is the VA system can sympathize.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'private health insurance is not exactly a bastion of efficiency.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I work with it all the time. it's awful :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'trouble is, accomplishing the good things can only be done, in the long term, with sustainability as one of its primiary design goals.  what we have now does not meet that standard.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'which Presidents were (and are) responsible and continue to be responsible (by acquiescence silent or otherwise) for (part-time) employees being without decent proportional benefits'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'being somewhat less bad than the worst thing around is not exactly a glowing recommendation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'it's not, but that's what our political system forces'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the ACA has been successful. it's not perfect, but it's substantially better than what we had before.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'be specific, accusingly mention names of the guilty Presidents and leaders'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'there's a reason why idiots protesting against it are carrying signs that say "Keep Socialism out of my Medicare!"'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'disagree.  it looks good in the beginning, because the metrics used to analyze it are increasing - but its not sustainable.  the harm it does when it collapses will, i predict, be greater than the harm it averted in its infancy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'besides meaningful use, what has left to materialize fully from the ACA?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Having health care decoupled from your job is a really big benefit...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'for the folks who both get and can afford to use it, sure - and there are probably lots of those. but ...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'republicans want to torpedo the parts of the ACA that make it work so that it fails and they can say, "SEE LOOK AT HOW AWFUL IT WAS" while their voters go back to being uninsured.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'if the republicans genuinely thought the ACA was a failure, they wouldn't need to do anything. it would just fail.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'how long can that system continue to grow, unfunded? the money isnt at risk of running out, so much as it was never present to begin with - and that is a problem much much larger than just aca.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its too big to fail.  remember that mantra?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the (paid) polititions giving the nation's resources to a few individuals is a form of socialism (socialism for the rich)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'that doesn't apply here. at all.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'one of the problems with allowing to to just fail is that it then wouldnt provide such a rich source of political rhetoric - but another problem is that its eventual collapse will be immensely harmful - after of course, it has already spent severl years/decadees inflicting tremendous stress on every other aspect of the nation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'what stress? what other aspects?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'and seemingly those rich earning millions and billions from the nation's resources do not want to pay decent taxes to pay for the upkeep of the nation's peoples -- that is extreme corruption'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'it is a huge, unfunded expense - which adds to the already quite large pile of unfunded expenses in the federal budget.  borrowing can cover for it - incidentally, adding yet another brick to the pile for next year.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'what is a huge, unfunded expense?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'check out google and wikipedia, look for things like 'deficit spending' and 'compound interest'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'unless of course congress has changed its mind while i was looking elsewhere, the cost of the aca wasnt being funded by a matching increase in taxation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'how were uninsured patients being paid for before? where did that money come from?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'some were visiting emergency rooms, at the expense of taxpayers and whatever private institutions run the hospitals - and some just didnt go.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'uninsured person gets stuck with a $80,000 bill, declares bankruptcy, poof! free healthcare?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so the only way for "the nation" to avoid default is for some people to be denied healthcare?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'thats an extreme example, but remember that catastrophic coverage was at best a small part of the rhetoric.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its not pretty, is it? but ultimately, the question is 'what do the citizens, and the nation as a whole, give up to accomplish the goal of universal health care?' there is no such thing as free.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the US had the highest per capita spending on healthcare before the ACA. why?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'if the ACA is being pinpointed as the issue, are we just pretending there was no issue before?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'that is a really complicated situation, and your question presupposes that 'per capita' is relevant - but you would need to look at how many caputs werent a part of that, before your numbers would mean much.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'pfft, no.  the aca is only the latest example in the spotlight.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'running up a huge Debt upon which interest must be paid to a few is corrupt capitalistism (or by another name: socialism for the capitalistic rich )'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'and, worst of all, its not sustainable.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'why do we assume that the debt is bad, or is at a bad level?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'corruption is not /necessarily/ destructive to a nation - harmful, yes, but potentially sustainable.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'dirty political secrets: the economy is good, the debt isn't an issue, a balanced budget every year would be bad, and the ACA has done mostly good things.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'oh, and immigration helps the economy, which is why moderate republicans will never do anything meaningful about it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the US debt and defict are at a very high possibly damaging level.  A small nation debt isn't neccessarily a bad thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Japan's debt to GDP ratio is double the US. I know their economy sucks, but what has been damaging about it?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'small national debt (I should proofread more)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'debt, in a general sense, is not necessarily bad.  debt that doesnt do useful work is a cost without benefit - the very definition of a bad thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'national debt is only significant if the country in debt has no control over their money. see: Greece.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'as paying interest on the national debt becomes larger, I would assume it would cause problems.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'taking on a debt to accomplish a useful purpose is great - as long as the purpose outlives the debt.  until that debt is paid, the interest it accrues will take up funds that could be doing something more beneficial - and if the benefit is much shorter-term than the debt, you end up paying a little while for something, and then a long time for - nothing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'also, any loan is inherently more expensive than using available funds - and increasing costs without a concomitant increase in benefit, is also a bad thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'small example: in 2008, the US government bailed out AIG with $180 billion. sounds terrible at first glance. where did that money come from? did the US go into debt to pay for the bailout? probably.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'but taxpayers ended up profiting on the bailout.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'do you mean directly, or in a more roundabout fashion?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'in the AIG case directly'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'AIG paid back more than $180 billion'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'now that the economy is doing better (please don't get sidtracked on that statement) the U.S. should make a strong effort to keep the deficet under contol'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'when the USA government (and other nations) take out further loans (so more money may be printed et cetera), instead of promising to pay the rich later, promise to pay the everybody in the nation later (and put those interest monies into "trust" to be paid on the date of Manyana -- if there are never any payouts until the total Debt is 0, no biggie -- except that the filthy rich are unable to earn monies from the taxpayers, and if they are to earn extra monies, they must earn those monies from non-government sources)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'for who'se benefit?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Malkar: that's true, and that has been happening. the budget deficit is very small.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'as far as i know, the laws of physics do not rule out the possibility that the aig bailout, in the long term, proved beneficial to the citizens ...but i would need to see some pretty strong evidence before i made any decisions that relied on it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the only people who didn't benefit from AIG's bailout are AIG's competitors who may have seen an increase in business from a destruction of competition, and even then that would only be assuming AIG failing didn't take them out too.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'hmm, was aig a big name in the housing thing?  its been a long time since ive seen anything but aca.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Mannec: AIG was given $180 billion and paid back $205 billion.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'possibly AIG shareholders benefited and US citizens did not'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'for some reason deficet projections show that the federal deficet will increase.  I'm not sure why.  Hopefully it won't be the case.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'while bailouts may be the least bad solution, there really isn't any (non-corrupt) reason not to wipe out equity'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'AIG is an insurance company, or was before they renamd'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'renamed'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its a fine thing to say, and may even be true - but i would need to know alot more about the provenance of those dollars than i do, if i were to rely on it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'they didn't have enough capital to cover the claims that were coming in, so the US government covered it for them.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'investing, if i recall, heavily in ... mortgage-backed securities?'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the Financial MeltDown was caused by the excess monies from not paying enough taxes, by excess monies that seeking and demanding interest and revenue, by excess monies prompting risky ventures (the derivative games).'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'they insured mortgage backed securities'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'PolitiFact has a short rundown on the AIG numbers: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/02/american-international-group/aig-says-it-has-repaid-government-plus-profit/'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'insured the securities - what a bizarre idea.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'oh, i dont trust anything i find on the internet - its all run by dogs, and made of lies.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'well then I'm going to have trouble proving anything '
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mannec snickers softly.
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'fortunately, i am comfortable in an unproven world.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'lets assume for the sake of argument that aig took out a loan from the fed, accomplished something useful, and then paid back the loan in some moderately short period of time.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the truth is that most of the republican candidates would have done exactly what Obama and Bush did in reaction to the financial crisis'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Mannec: that's basically what happened :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'doesnt make their responses good ones, just hypocritical :/'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'that would be a debt that is a 'good thing'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'a lot of those trillions of dollars are "virtual monies" -- monies that are seeking revenues and interest of profits (from increasing national debts)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'gotta be careful with words like 'virtual' when you are discussing fiat moneys - they have a whole heirarchy of fictional existence :P'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'all i know is america will be great again'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'it is a fact that $180 billion was given to AIG from the US taxpayers and $202 billion was given back from AIG to the US taxpayers. there were some tax breaks thrown into the bailout that make the numbers less clear, but even the worst-case analysis would have it as a push that saved thousands of AIG claimholders from being fucked.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'arguably beneficial, and at some small-ish extra cost.  assuming that is all true, then that is still an example of a 'good debt'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'which is why Bush, McCain, Obama, Clinton, Romney, Rubio, etc. would have done exactly the same thing in that situation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'any huge monies earning revenues from government Debt are stagnant monies -- the nonies goes into those huge coffers and does not ever come out'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'not true, xy! those monies dont just sit in a digital box doing nothing, they get lent out again - generating even more interest.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'okay, I gotta bail myself out of this and turn debate off again :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bishoujo Raded misses the 'v' and wabes.
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'i need a bail in to contiune keeping debate on'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the velocity of monies theory states that for monies to do actual work, the monies must not be stagnant  (y/n/maybe) '
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'aww, you were one of the fun ones :('
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'im not familiar with the v.o.m theory, but plain old physics says the answer is yes.  work can only be accomplished when energy moves from a point of high concentration to a point of lower concentration.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'thermodynamics baby, woo!'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'huge-stagnant-monies that hoover in moving-monies into increasing the stagnant monies are bad huge-stagnant-monies'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'which is why the rich keep most of their assets in the form of investments, rather than mattress-stuffing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'government debt must not be financed by the huge-stagnent-monies of the few (as any interest payouts are a "government-based charity to a few")'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'is inflation of the money system any different if (1) the government takes out a loan and promises to pay eveybody but never does, or if (2) pays out interest to the rich (increasing the stagnant coffers and giving charity to the rich)'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the issue is that "everybody" doesn't have the money to lend...you want to borrow money, you go to the ones who have it'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if the Government is goint to print monies, then don't increase also the Debt'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sorry to disappoint, but the government doesn't get more money by printing it'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you can ask zimbabwe how that turns out'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers at you intently. 
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Printing gives you a larger share of the money cake, certainly.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it reduces the size of the cake'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, ask zimbabwe how that works out'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'besides, I've heard the problems in Zimbabwe were caused by evilwhiteracists and colonial powers, nothing to do with the government policies..'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, go with that one'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'but if there is a requirement for fiscal balance and accountability: the Government loans a lot of monies to the "people" (in "trust"), then the Government loans that loaned money from the "trust" at a low rate of interest -- but hey seen this scenario: that is how the Banking System runs, except the rich are grabbing the interest monies instead of the "people"'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when the government loans money to the "people", for those people who aren't rich, they're actively using those moneys, and cannot then lend the money back to the government...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'with the "loaned" monies, the Government prints more monies, or maybe the Federal Reserve prints more monies, but when the interest monies on the newly created Debt go to Banks or the "already rich" a new actual Debt is created '
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if the interest monies (on the new Debt) were to be paid to the people (or not at all), then no actual Debt, only a virtual Debt'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, the government cannot just print more money. finance simply doesn't work like that'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're delusional, lrn2eco'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'biker, its a fine idea youve got there - but false.  waving a magic wand and making dollars appear from nowhere is exactly what happens.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'of course, that would be bad enough - but it goes downhill from there.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if the US were a closed system, that could be the case...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'closed, open, doesnt matter - dollars are, in fact, produced from nothing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, they're not'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the Finance system does work like that, but the (banking) rich few are also grabbing the interest from the Debt (instead of the "people")'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're produced from rather complex formula'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'formulae may be involved in determining how many - but the dollars themselves are not produced from some other thing.  they appear, *poof*.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when you simply decide that you "have more money", each of those dollars now accomplish less work, and your net money is relatively unchanged'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's your issue, you believe that the dollars are the money...'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'the value of each unit decreases, certainly - thats called inflation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that is exactly why you don't "get more" by printing'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'dollars _are_ the money, at least in the nation i happen to be standing in.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'I haven't held cash in at least 5 years, all of it's on my debit/cc'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, they're not...they're a representation of the money'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'you do get more.  they are units, you can count them - the quantity of units increases.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you get more dollars...you don't get more money...your issue that you were trying to solve didn't change'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'money is, itself, a symbol - the dollar is the money is the representation of ... well, thats where it gets complicated.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'you get more money, you dont get more wealth.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'one of the problems, pretty nearly the only problem, that inflation can address is a lack of money to move around.  you need to have enough units available for people to be able to gain and spend them, or you get what is called 'deflation'.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'that doesnt make inflation a good thing, just maybe a little bit better than the alternative.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'some inflation is usually a good thing, as long as it's a gentle climb'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'false.  growth is a good thing - inflation is, by definition, the devaluation of something (assumed to be) valuable.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but it also needs to hit every aspect'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'slow inflation is clearly less painful than rapid inflation ... but again, that doesnt make it a good thing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'the huge Debt$ of the USA (and other nations) is partly due to the Banking System$, and to (paid-off) Polititions giving resources monies privilege interest to the rich few  (and the Banking System) .. using "complex formulas" to obfuscate the money-trail$  '
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'politition -> politician'
T3/r7/2016-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'politition:: the act of converting a thing into a city.'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'the pope is accused in getting it on with a married lady for 30 years. when he's gonna get convicted - does it mean all the documents with his signature will be nullified? all the saints back to the streets as commoners. all the drapes, curtains, and charity money would be returned? '
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'candles..'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least liberation theology should remain untainted..'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'whenever he blessed something or someone - that person or thing has been living or being unguarded.. almost naked instead. all that time'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Do you remember who is YOUR president, fellow MUDders ???'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Do you really value democracy and freedom ?'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, indeed, at 5 euros a month'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'what democracy'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avram: 'Democracy is the rule of people'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'would you rather live in the ascendancy of a civilization, or its decline?'
T3/r7/2016-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'both options are seemingly current, maybe no need to choose'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'have you ever stolen stuff?'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'only hearts'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'hm. unless its a fucking tragedy, you can't say "im SO sorry" without people getting upset at you'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'ok. lets calm down and talk about Syria'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but I don't like talking to my phone'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'why is everybody bombing Syria nowadays?'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'it's the thing to do'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'there is 3 different gangs doing it'
T3/r7/2016-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'have you seen syria? theyre engaged in gentrification.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, satellite internet is good, and quite mobile.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'if you die quickly enough after making a baby, do you think you could reincarnate to be your kid's kid?'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'wow.. marco rubio just said about planned parent hood "those videos that came out last year"'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'the same ones proven to be doctored and fake??? of course news outlet doesnt correct him.. so silly'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'Stop it, the real issue here is Obama knows exactly what he's doing'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'no. the real issue is who are THEY?'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'well played'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'can you win a debate knowing nothing about the topic?'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'its possible to win in poker blindly'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most debates are won in such a fashion'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'lets see. metheny lacks new material to be on top for longer than 5 years'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'try to bluff now:P'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'ive found that utter ignorance of the subject at hand is actually an advantage.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a winner of a debate can only claim that they are better at debating than their opponent :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'most professional sports analyst make the claim that any team can win on any given day which makes us wonder why there are championship games since the winner can only claim that they were better that gaim.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'game*'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: ''Can' only implies non-zero probability, but the more skilled team still has the better probability.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'repeated testing also allows for greater profitability.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'hmm, i wonder if counterfactual definiteness holds in sportscasting?'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'all that might be true, but on any given day a team can lose which means that they don't have supremacy. Same idea applies to debating.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'a champion is supreme by definition'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'Supremacy is not equivalent to infallibility.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'never made that claim'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but being called champion when there are those that can defeat you sounds a little presumptuous'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'So support how the non-zero possibility of failure equates to a lack of supremacy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the best one can say is that "today/yesterday/last year no one defeated me"'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if at the end of time you are still undefeated then you are certainly a champion :>'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'Virtually all accomplishments/achievements are based only on a moment in time.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'And the supremacy of a champion is not typically based on only a single event, but rather through successive triumphs over a period of time/series of events during which all pretenders to the crown have fallen.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'In most sports, anyway.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I agree. I am just commenting on word usage :) "The world champions Texas Royals" :) '
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'there might be some Cuban team that might dispute that :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'which brings us back to the point. To make claims to supremacy you have to define the context, which has to be as narrow as possible.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'Just like there might be some unknown guy in a random kenyan village who could outrun an olympic champion :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so in debate you channel the discussion is such a way that your opponent can't score freely.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that is likely, Trist :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I would certainly be willing to bet on it :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'Agree with the part about debating.  Have seen some strong debaters win in subjects they are sorely outmatched in, and doing so by tightly controlling the terms of the debate.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'William Lane Craig comes to mind'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'which renders the debate as means to declaring a position worthless.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'its all about frame control '
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'thats why we have press releases :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'as is usually the case, those who pass a test can only claim that they are successful test takers and nothing else.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'Agree with you on that.  Some people (philosophy students in particular) still blindly cling to the tradition of oral debates though, lingering from a bygone era when they might have been the best way to communicate'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abstract Anaristos: 'Even Socrates, perhaps the greatest debater in history, admitted that he won't most times by the use of sophisms (read that as :tricks:).'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'thats because the humans havent discover3'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'that the mind doesnt change instantly and even with perfect solutions its gradual'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I think the fault lies with the audience. They should reject tricks and force the contestants to be honest about their positions.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'we deserve what we get...'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the winner of a contest would the one that after everyone has honestly stated their position, offers the best solution.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't watch the debates :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i'd imagine that the average human has always been drawn more to spectacle than to truth or value.'
T3/r7/2016-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'but I did see the clip where Samantha Bee discusses them :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'when you become a master wizard, will the beard grow instantly or you still have to wait for it?'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I takes longer to grow a beard than to become a master wizard?'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it..'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'does for me, I can't grow a beard to save my soul'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'i mean. all the master wizards in the movies already have a full beard. always'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'see - you get promoted to master wizards. you look in the mirror and say "fuck.. still 6 months until they take me seriously"'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'You get the beard when you become a master wiz, it's like the badge'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'yeah. would suck if it takes a long wait. maybe they use a spell to grow it fast'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'the beard is a symptom of the leakage of awesomeness from a wizards follicles.  under ideal circumstances a wizard who invests his time in perfecting his efficiency will maintain a youthful appearance and a smooth chin - and yes, he wont be taken seriously.'
T3/r7/2016-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ok'
T3/r7/2016-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, anyone else amused at how utterly Trump has confounded the media?'
T3/r7/2016-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tonight on CNN: Donald Trump says something crazy that we think is racist and the world is going to end. Well done CNN, you've just given him $10m worth of free prime time advertising you retards'
T3/r7/2016-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Pope comments on Trump? Well done, Pope, you've just given Trump $100m of free prime-time world-wide advertising, oh, and what's that? You've had to apologise for being seen to be interfering in national politics? Well that was a PR victory, you daft kiddie-fiddling sky-faerie worshipper'
T3/r7/2016-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Ive never been an apple fan but i have to say they have earned my respect with how they are standing up against the gov demands to create a back door entry to their phones.'
T3/r7/2016-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) She-wolf AryaStark: 'apple FTW'
T3/r7/2016-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and you believe that the public display reflects private negociations?'
T3/r7/2016-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'its so cute that you think there arent already a handful installed.'
T3/r7/2016-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'i do kinda like what i saw in the paper today, tho - 'well, they didnt install the management app, so well just have to do what every other device owner in the world does.''
T3/r7/2016-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'fbi looks up 'how to r00t ipwn' on the youtoobz.'
T3/r7/2016-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'so hillary will deff be our next pres...'
T3/r7/2016-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I now feel validated in every conspiracy theory Ive ever had'
T3/r7/2016-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'always ice having our pres picked for us'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'so a couple of Gynecologists (UC Urvine) say that a little FGM is a good compromise, maybe a nick or a cut, or that removal of the clitoral hood is really no worse than a male circumcision. How fucking hard is it to understand that ANY cutting, poking, proding of a child's genitals(male or female imho) is FUCKING wrong???'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'okay, time to dip back into political goodness: why the hell is McConnell doing everything he can to prevent an Obama Supreme Court appointee he doesn't even know the name of yet? anyone Obama picks will be a moderate because of how brutal the confirmation process will be, and with Trump the likely GOP nominee, Hillary probably skates into the presidency unimpeded. what exactly is the outcome he's hoping for?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrn: 'They are scared of primary challengers on the right if they don't do it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'obstructionism seems to be driving GOP voters away from the status quo. they're screwed either way.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'republicans have spent 8 years trying to drum up irrational anger against Obama and the dems and it's blowing up in their faces.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'They have also spent some time as a majority, and don't seem to be making much out of it.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wars: 'Were stuck with hillary... that was decided for us before any of them even started running.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The Republican nomination also seems to have been set up to favour a Jeb Bush-type well funded establishment candidate.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It was a good plan.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Somehow I don't think the DNC expected Clinton to barely be holding her own against a left-of-Obama candidate either.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Obama and Clinton are both exceedingly moderate'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'and that's frustrated dem voters, hence Bernie's popularity'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'that said, I think most dem voters would strongly prefer a third Obama term over Hillary or Bernie. I know I would.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Id take a potty trained monkey over hillary or trump tbh'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'but the GOP establishment has spent 8+ years talking about the elites in Washington, then the best thing they can come up with is Jeb Bush and Scott Walker.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada sits down and thinks deeply. 
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Hillary is just unlikeable. that's her biggest flaw. other than conservatives angry over things they learned from Facebook memes, the biggest knock against her is that she's been so inconsistent with policies and beliefs over the past 30+ years.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I was thinking about Obama's pre-election history rather than his policies over the past two terms. The latter are admittedly closer to vampire squid moderation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I must admit I never saw the amazing virtue of that kind of consistency.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I have no idea what that means :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'it's true, consistency is both a blessing and a curse for a politician.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrn: 'Being able to change your positions over time as the world changes should be a virtue but it's not...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have certainly changed a lot of my beliefs since the first time I voted.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'and that's what Hillary has done. she molds her beliefs to the prevailing dem establishment stance at the time, but leans more right than left from those prevailing stances.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'And not because the world changed either, but because I learned more, and realized my earlier views were inferior.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'but conservatives talk about Hillary like liberals talk about Trump and I can only chalk that up to bullshit conservative Facebook memes and 8 years of GOP fear mongering '
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'it's a little too convenient when a politician's positions always seem to shift with what polls best...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I always wonder why conservatives like to paint the most moderate dems as the scary ones.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'because those are the most electable dems, and hence relevant enemies?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'if you believe socialism is the world's great evil, you shouldn't be afraid of Hillary, you should be afraid of Bernie.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Cruz and Trump are the least electable of the GOP bunch but catch the most hate from the left. '
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'average conservative sees hilary as disingenuous and sketchy, but bernie as having the far more dangerous policies'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Biggest change id like to see in our gov is term limits added to congress and the like... will never happen though.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and hate is not always based on positions either;trump has his winning personality too :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Trump seems more electable than anyone else I can recall.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'in this cycle'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'his ceiling as the nominee is much lower than Bush/Rubio/Walker's wold have been'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'I don't think any of those people will make a difference, I can't remember any president ever actually doing anything useful'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'they've each done a lot, bush getting us into prolonged middle-eastern conflict and increasing thscope of govt with dhs/patriot act/etc, obama expanding gov into healthcare, etc'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'kind of ironic that the most scared conservative voters are finding their messiah in a New York billionaire.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Yeah but it all adds up to nothing in the end, america is still going downhill in every aspect'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the ACA has made a huge positive difference, and the W/Obama bailouts worked great, but those are other discussions :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'People have no power, president has no power, so nothing worthwhile will ever get done'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Rake: that's absolutely not true and it's one of the most frustrating things about the 2016 campaign'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'nobody gets to talk about the good things going on because good things don't get people fired up to go out and vote'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the ACA and bailouts are both imo clearly inferior designs compare to typical western european setups'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the ACA, yes. single payer eliminates inefficienies that we spend billions on every year, but it's a huge step in the right direction.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the US bailouts have been successful, the EU bailouts have had mixed success.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Reality show stars are becoming presidents and Predisdents are becoming reality show stars...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'China never really recovered from the crash and Japan has been floundering for almost 30 years.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Reagan was the 1970s version of a reality show star. this isn't new.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The US bailouts fail by protecting corporations and equity holders that should fail.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Everything every candidate has ever said is like the equivilent of saying you'll put out a fire on a tree when the entire forest is on fire'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That's just standard economic theory anyway, sometimes it's right.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Tinada: I don't fully disagree. and it's not standard economic theory, at least not the prevailing modern economic theories.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'but the overall positives outweighed the negatives from the bailouts and the taxpayers ended up profiting on many of them.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'No it doesn't'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'As long as america is run by capitalism, it'll never improve, and keep heading to the shit pile'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Japan is doing about as well as the west if you adjust for demographic changes.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Rake.
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Rake: what else has worked? the US is in a better spot right now than almost any other country in the world economically.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'Yeah that makes total sense.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'America never got better because it was capitalistic...okayyyy, you should probably read some history books.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'The US isn't ahead in any single aspect, I think you need to do some research'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Japan has crippling economic problems that they haven't been able to solve. Abenomics has been a flop. young people can't fulltime jobs until their 30s because everything is based on seniority.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'can't get fulltime jobs*'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'US is mediocre at everything, and excels at nothing'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'absolutely not true.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'wrt. Trump: he's much better at appealing to your instincts/system 1/whatever you want to call it, and, let's face it, even the people who don't qualify as "low-information voters", are mostly clueless/run on heuristics and emotions.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Trump supporters are mostly people who are afraid of terrorism and want an authoritarian leader.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'okay lets see then'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Us has the highest income inequality'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'almost the worst unemployment rates'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the US does not have the highest income inequality or unemployment rates. what are you talking about?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'largest class gap in any country by miles'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Are you serious, do you do any research at all'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'seems India would win that game'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'how are you measuring class gap?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The US has larger inequalities than Western Europe, but most countries aren't in Western Europe.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'Who gives a fuck what the class gap is? If people wanna be lazy and not achieve anythin thats THEIR decision.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'No, india is poor, but have very good income equality'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Waaaaaay better than US'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'what measure are you using?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'Income equality shouldn't even be a fuckin metric anyway.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'GINI coefficient plops the US somewhere in the middle for income inequality but that's because we have an unusually high number of billionaires skewing the scale.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'thats so wrong Cares - doctors kids become doctors very often. bums's kids become bums. often. they have researched that a LOT'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Not to mention that US has almost the worst educational literacy of every country'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'and US unemployment is very low'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '"worst eeducational literacy" what are you even talking about lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'can you use the terms of the measures you're referring to instead of inventing things if you're claiming that you're the only one who has "done the research"?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Look at mathetmatics, the average OECD score was around 494'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Highest was china I think with 550 or so'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'why? this is a debate channel'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'US scored 368'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Almost the bare minimum'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'In science, US sscored 373, average was 450'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Basically, US is the worst educational country in the entire OECD'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's not just the billionaires, it's all across the scale. Norway is, on average, a richer country than the US, but the top 10% in the US are twice as rich as the top 10% in Norway, and that's even with Norway having a slightly higher per capita # of billionaires.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'Abolish the NEA and watch the score go up'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Cares/Anne: you're being tricked by politicians again :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'No, I'm just learning from history'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Only thing US almost excels at, only beat by Greece, is obesity'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'There's literally no aspect of the US that they are #1 at'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'makes sense when you're just making things up as you go'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'And also not really makin any point at same time...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The US has been quite good at making things up as they go.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '(Mexico is the country with a higher obesity rate than the US.)'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'partly fuelled by the inflow of smart foreigners..'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'I was making my point as, no candidate will ever amount to anything unless it was some financial benefit that capitalists can benefit from'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nooobody Cares: 'lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Which is why I always laugh when people say bernie will fix this, or hillary will fix that'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'barely... and us childhood obesity is insane'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'At least there is an easy fix for obesity.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'The only thing candidates and presidents are good for is a figure head, giving the US citizens a false sense of having some measure of power or say'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Rake: you're looking at a bunch of unrelated factors and saying, "the US isn't #1 here or there, so how can the US be any good at all?"'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'conceptually easy, that is'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'if you have a good easy fix for obesity, I'd suggest you patent it, cause you're worth a fortune'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'LeBron James is the best basketball player in the world, but there's not a single thing he does better than anybody else. apply your argument to basketball and you'd be saying he's a terrible basketball player because he's not the best at anything.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The easy fix is to stop eating that kind of food that forces your body to partition lots of energy into fat storage in order to survive in the short term.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'The fact that LeBron James makes so much money for putting a ball into a circle is basically proving my point'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and I don't really think you can patent not eating a high carb diet..'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'LeBron is underpaid for the income he generates for his employers'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'evidence shows, I think, that this is not easy. Nor is surgical removal of fat'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'but, again, that's another argument :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Exactly, there's no reason to pay LeBronn so much, other than the fact that he makes other people more money, basically US in a nutshell.  Nothing happens unless someone makes money off it'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the US has low unempoyment, high GDP per capita, a manageable debt to GDP ratio, isn't reliant on any single industry or commodity, and has a fair to strong economic outlook moving forward. you're saying the economy sucks because Macau did better on a science test.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's not 100% reliable, there are other complications, like hypthyroidism-stuff, but the great majority of cases of obesity are likely caused by forcing those homeostatic mechanisms to fatten you up to keep you alive.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so if LeBron is generating $200m a year for the Cavs, NBA, Nike, Gatorade, etc., how much SHOULD he be making for that work and who gets to decide it if it's not the free market?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'There is no way to "fix" obesity without some sort of extreme force. You can only encourage indiviuals to fix it themselves.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'that nr1 thing aint worth the fuss. ok life or "getting by" starts from hm.. where Poland is right now. Czech republic is a little behind. Well something like that. that nr1 is the most absurd when some drunk Russian starts yelling how awesome he is because he is Russian. '
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'don't mean to offend any Russians but those crazy people:P'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'or are you the type of person who thinks a 16 year old who writes a book should make as much money of JK Rowling because of "fairness"?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That's why I said it was conceptually easy. It still took me about 1,5 years to switch properly after reading more research than I like to think about.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '(the idea that all athletes are overpaid is mostly racism and poor understanding of how money works)'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Athletes are a race now?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'sounds like peak PC/SJW'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the idea that money works is a poor understanding of reality'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'works just means it motivates others to work'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I'm not sure what to chalk it up to other than ignorance. 500 mostly black athletes make millions of dollars and their overpaid, but 30 mostly white team owners make billions off of those athletes and they need to take money from the athletes?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '(they're, not their)'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'team owners impose a salary cap to keep salaries artifically low, then get tax money to help them build arenas to make more money. nobody says team owners make too much money, it's always athletes make too much money. why?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the difference is that the athletes have a skill, while the owners have capital. It offends our ideal of society that anyone should earn money by doing something rather than owning something.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'No, it's the fact that someone putting a ball into a circle, or singing a song, or throwing a oval leather sack far shouldn't make millions when US has insane money problems'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Rake: it's not a zero sum game. you know that, right?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'LeBron earning $200m/year is not taking money away from anyone else.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'The fact that person who throws an oval sack far makes more money than anyone in the education system is a problem'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'where is it coming from them Bishoujo?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aterius: 'those same people in poverty still spend their money on things related to thoe3 games'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Rake: why?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'because capital is supposed to essentially reflect accumulated work time/sacrificed consumption.  and being the owner of a company involves the kind of risk that no worker ever takes'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Because it shows that sports are higher rated than education'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Rake: how so?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'I'm not saying it costs anyone money, I'm saying people will aspire to a career in sports over something educational'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'because Bishoujo if we value the facile above the future then we have a poor society'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'it shows that we care more about sports than education.  if that's considered a problem, then the problem is with our own priorities and daily choices'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so if we don't let the market decide these things, who decides it?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'No one questions when a football player gets a multi million dollar signing bonus, but teachers asking for a raise is WW3'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we could try democracy, for example'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It shows something about the distribution of income and "value production" in the two respective systems.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Overall we spend (and waste) rather more money on education than on sports'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so do we vote on what each individual gets paid, or do we vote ourselves into feudalism?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'but at least education isn't just a spectator sport..'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly.
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I vote by spending my time and money on something else than sports.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'reduction to absurdity is, of course, a logical fallacy'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the average football player is out of the league within a season or two with maybe 7 digits worth of cash under their belt to go along with a lifetime of physical impairment'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'debate If LeBron was paid 50 million instead of 200 million, that would be enough to give 15000 teachers a 10,000$ year raise, if it was possible'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Swalec: capitalism and democracy are not mutually exclusive. I'm trying to understand how we let something other than supply and demand dictate an individual's salary.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'other than stadium subsidies/tax breaks to move to city, pro sports teams don't cost anyone other than the people who choose to pay for them...education costs everyone whether they have kids or not...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but Tinada that is not voting because your net worth is far less than other members of society.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bishoujo Raded rapidly nods twice to you, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'Yeah except almost every sports stadium is built with taxpayers money'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'democracy can be used to create the rules around which capitalism operates.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'to bring money to their town'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Bishoujo yeah, they are, at least the way that they are going. The can work together, to an extent, but they are not happy bedfellows'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all sports stadiums bring more money to the taxpayer economy than teachers'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rake: 'It doesn't bring money to the town, look at any olympics for an example'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I agree that taxpayer money going to building stadiums is a bad system, but that's lining the pockets of team owners, not athletes. you were complaining about athletes being overpaid, not successful business owners who hold taxpayers hostage.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it does'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'some people have more votes than me, sure'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, why is this not happening then? In the US capital owns the media, capital bankrolls both sides in democracy'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the olympics aren't a sports stadium, they're a major event like the DNC'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, Tinada, it's not a vote. It's like saying that a martial society is a democracy because I vote by killing everyone who disagrees with me'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as long as the live ones vote to keep you in :-)'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Swalec's question.
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Swalec: it IS happening. our system is far from perfect, but it's more effective than most other systems.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Call it whatever you like.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'probably half the world's dictators are technically democracies by that very technique'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's an old argument and it was nonsense when Friedmen made it, and it's it's nonsense now'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '"Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote."'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'more effective at what? The US has massive levels of inequality, mass poverity and has the highest level of debt of any society.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I don't consider inequality to be a bad thing'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'the market is the only way to rationally determine the pricing of goods.  no actor or group of actors has enough knowledge to do so'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'and debt makes people run around and do their jobs:P'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'this is well illustrated in "I, pencil"'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the market is not rational, by definition.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and if the market is the only way to do it, how come it happened before the market was invented'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'income inequality isn't necessarily a problem, it's just a thing. I would disagree with mass poverty and debt.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'please elaborate'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'US has the highest total amount of external debt, but not an unusual amount of debt per capita or as a percentage of GDP'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Swalec: the western economic system before capitalism was feudalism.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'external debt, yes, which will be a problem for the US at some point'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I disagree with that to'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '+o'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'as long as the US has control over its currency, external debt is not a significant issue'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Bishoujo that's really not true, there was a lot of variation between fuedalism and the deification of the free market'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'it could be a compounding factor if something bad happened, like we let a bunch of banks and insurance companies fail, but it's not something that can cause anything bad on its own.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'indeed, even since it was invented we have not had a continuous free market -- it has come and gone. Now it is strong, but hopefully it will not last'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the level of restrictions on capitalism has ebb and flow to it and varies by country, but the other systems that exist involve somebody dictating how resources are allocated instead of letting supply/demand sort it out.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'even socialism is basically capitalism with strong labor laws and safety nets.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'supply and demand is not a thing -- it's people. The market is not magic, or a natural force. It's just dictation by an oligarchy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'what oligarch dictates the price I list my car at on Craigslist?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'or how much I pay for a house?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's called a bank'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so how did prices crash in 2008?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'called an appraiser'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'called supply and demand'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'only necessarily involves an appraiser if you're borrowing money that you don't have'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the value of a house is almost entirely determined by the availability of debt -- of course, you can put any value you like on it, because it will not sell if you ask for a price outside of what the bank has decided you can sell for'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'banks did drive the prices up, but they did so by driving demand with risky mortgages, not by dictating prices.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'if you own a house you get to dictate the price it sells for'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'A social democracy (which Americans often call "socialism" when it happens in Europe and "liberalism" when it happens in the US), is capitalism with an extra helping of redistribution.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so the market dictates to you -- and by market, we mean the large capital owners. of course, you have some freedom, but then, that's true in all dictatorships.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and it works quite well in a homogenous society'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you get to dictate whether it sells...the buyer gets to dictate what it sells for...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'not really there are multiable things that come into play on house.. but location location location'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and the current level of involvement of banks via fiat currency and fractional-reserve banking isn't an essential piece of capitalism'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: '"the market dictates to you" exactly!'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Bishoujo you get to decide what price you ask, not what price you sell for'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'you can charge any price that somebody is willing to pay'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'that is the market dictating price'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'that is correct'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gurneyhallek: 'but if you want to sell your property you have to do it at a market level'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'technically you only HAVE to if you're interested in actually selling it'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but the price that someone is willing to pay is determined largely by large capital owners. call it "the market" if you like to give it some appearance of a natural force, but it is not. It's a decision that in our society, we give the ability to make decisions to a few'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'there is not some shady group of people out there deciding which housing markets are going up and down'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'itz the illuminati!!'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'they're secretly deciding how much i'm allowed to buy that babe ruth card off of ebay for!'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no, they are not shady, we know who they are. '
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'yes, the prevailing market rate and availability of capital factors in, but it's largely determined by supply and demand.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'who?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'and why is it that their decisions always seem to coincide with changes in supply and demand? :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I told you already, the main lenders, and the regulatory system which (sort of) regulates them.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'so why do buyers/sellers outside the lending system adhere to the same prices if they don't have to?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, they don't.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'do you have an example? honest question.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'well, there is a not particularly shady group of people trying to keep housing prices from going down'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'something where a house sold for substantially more or less than its market value because the buyer and seller were outside of the tightly controlled pricing system you suggest exists'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes -- the bank of England sets the base rate, which controls the house prices'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bishoujo Raded rapidly nods twice at Tinada, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'well housing is heavily impacted by our government for sure, but that's not a free market that's government interventionalism'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'the base rate dictates lending rates which can impact demand, I guess. but that's hardly control.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'government intervention is a fundamental part of the free market'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that's why government spending increased under both Thatcher, Reagan and even Pinochet'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'LIBOR is low, people might make buying purchases sooner and get larger mortgages. LIBOR is high they might delay purchases and get smaller mortgages. but that is far from dictating prices for individual sales'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'intervention is a fundamental part of Keynesian economic theory, which is what most wealthy countries base decisions on'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'n'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'mis...'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'that's true, although it remains to be seen whether the switch to keynesianism will be their downfall'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I don't disgaree that there's intervention. heavy intervention in some markets. but supply/demand is the strongest factor for determining prices in almost every market.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and i agree with you on that too'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we've moved away from Keysianism, but then, again, if the free market does not require government intervention, why has it always been bought in by massive government intervention -- from the coup and violence of Pinochet, through to the conflict and police violence of Thatcher, to the massive increase in military spending of Reagen'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'it's not required, but the heads of government are incentivized to engage in things like quantitative easing and increases in the money supply to try to dilute their debts'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we also have the IMF, the World Bank, enormous numbers of trade organisations, whose sole job is to promote the "free market". It's about as natural as the divine right of kings'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'if it has not required, Trist, then have you got an example of where a Friedmanite type free market has happened naturally?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'huge, macro-level interventions don't always have a big impact on the market. I think that speaks to the power of supply/demand as much as it does to the difficulty of intervention.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Hong Kong is probably the closest we have to an example of Friedman policies.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'or that the our governmental forms are ineffective, and have become more so over the years'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Hong Kong? Free of government intervention? Are we talking about the small island controlled original directly from the UK (without full democracy) and now controlled by the Chinese?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I agree that brute force interventions have become less effective, but not ineffective or bad.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'Hong Kong between the 1950s and 1999 when the UK owned it but mostly did not intervene with the economy'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrn: 'whois'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'the usa had a much more free monetary policy prior to the early 1900s'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i think ultimately governments tend to expand their powers over time, which goes hand in hand with intervetionalism'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the UK had a massive impact on the economy -- it controlled who could enter, who could leave'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Trist, governments can increase in power, but that includes the "free market" ones -- the Thatcher controlled far more of the economy than the post-war Labour adminstration for instance '
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'I never said it was a perfect example, just the best example :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'it was an area allowed to develop with minimal government intervention in its economy'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'yes swalec, government expansionism is an inherent quality of government, independent of monetary policy/economy'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and, yet, all the other examples involve massive state intervention'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'it doesn't mean that the periods of a more free market aren't to be desired simply because they are eventually overrun by interventionalism'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Trist, indeed. The free market is not to be desired for other reasons entirely -- largely because of the massive dislocations taht they produce in our society, their instability and the massive increases in inequality that they cause'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but, my point is that the interventionism is not a counter-point to the free market -- it is a necessary feature of it'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'all other examples have massive state intervention because that's how human societies tend to work, independent of the economic system.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'until very recent history, the government was mostly responsible for maintaining a military to keep other countries out. it's only been a very short period of human history where that is not a large concern.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bishoujo Raded: 'anyway, done blowing off steam on debate, gonna shut it back off :p'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Bishoujo Raded misses the 'v' and wabes.
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i don't think you've proven that swalec.  simply saying that free markets have historically led to interventionalism over a long enough period of time does not show any type of causation.'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'by that token i might conclude that having any government at all inevitably leads to wars, interventionalism, and a number of other undesirable conditions'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I did noy say that -- it is the other way around -- the intervention is how the free market came in'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'ok regarding the inception of the free market in a country with an existing government and alternative economy'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'how else could a change come about other than a government choice to do so (aka intervention)?'
T3/r7/2016-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'change can come in many ways -- the fall of the white russia did not come from government intervention'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Why do people think Trump would pick a career politician for vp?'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'thinking he will do it to get hard core GOP'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Why havent we just flown drone over North Korea and leveled his palaces and military bases yet? I really do not understand.'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'It could be over without sending a single troop.'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'because unrest in the far east is economically beneficial to the west?'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'because they have huge army'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) __m_OO_m__ Hwuaijijal: 'meaning many people. so many people would be killed'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'We werent concerned about how many we killed with shock and awe... Why would we give a crap about a country that has constantly threated nuclear war?'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'because a bogeyman fails of his purpose once he is dead'
T3/r7/2016-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mannec is agreeing with that Swalec person again...
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada goes, "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Christie endorses Trump?'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I suppose the establishment didn't survive as long as it has without a certain capacity for reorientation'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'A nightstand is a poor place for a firearm. Gun suicides outnumber gun homicides in the US.'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'Trist, I would love to hear more about your pro-killing arguments here'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'sure, you can elaborate on your "lay-down-and-take-it" mentality too :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'gladly, except I didn't support submitting to the intruder. I am saying that you could handle the situation without firearms'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'how? waiting for the police to arrive in an undetermined amount of time?  some less efficient weapon?'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'reasoning with them? :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'allow me to give an example'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'imagine a burglar who entered your living room, whose intention is to steal your worthy items for a later conversion into money, so he can afford his daughters medications'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'and imagine you shoot him in the face'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'I am trying to say that not everything is black and white, and you might end up regretting what you have done'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'He deserves to be shot for breaking into my home and putting my family at risk '
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'why the fuck woudl I care about his "intentions"'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i might.  i might also regret it if this burglar actually entered my living room intending to rape my infant son, and succeeding in doing so because i told myself "well, there's only a 1/25 chance he will hurt any of us so i'm unwilling to use force"'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Duels is agreeing with that Trist person again...
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i can mitigate the risk of the former by yelling out to the intruder and/or firing a warning shot and/or *attempting* to aim nonlethally in subsequent shots'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'but my ability to mitigate the risk of the latter scenario without a firearm is very limited'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'and if the intruder has a firearm what are you going to do to protect yourself?'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'so after you shoot the guy in the face, your child wakes up and sees the corpse, you will justify your actions?'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'deffinately'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'absolutely'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'better than justifying my inactions to my wife upon seeing my child's corpse'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'there's the paranoia'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'all my children of the proper age are trained in firearm use and safety'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'what I get out of this conversation is that a life has very little value :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'so your fear of a hypothetical scenario is not paranoia, but somehow mine is.  please objectively make that distinction :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'its not parinoia ummm do you read the news like ever?'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'define "news"'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'there's a choice here, and you're right that there are risks with either decision.  but there's a disproportionate amount of potential loss on my end on one side, so i will weigh it accordingly'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lolololol'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'I don't believe in mainstream news and I don't respect mainstream news.'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'do you believe in facts? lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'that's not paranoia either, though, right? :) '
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vyhn: '<3 npr'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'obviously not'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'it's only paranoia when people have different concerns than you do'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'your paranoid but I dont believ in any news lollolololol'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'Trist, what I say has nothing to do with paranoia. I always doubt the contents of the mainstream news and reconsider it in the whole context.'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'one way of looking at your statement, Trist, is that you don't that others' lives are valuable enough for you to do something that may require work in order to preserve them. In other words, shot first and ask questions later is certainly much easier to implement than actually trying to figure out what the others' intentions are.'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'that is because in the past I have personally seen I don't know how many times that the mainstream media have manipulated people on purpose'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'aphelion, you're misrepresenting my position.  i clearly advocated for attempting to communicate, warn, and take other possible actions before shooting (aka ask first and then shoot later)'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'if they are a threat to me or my loved ones liofe then ya their life doenst matter at all'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'like at all'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and we're not talking about being 'unwilling to work' we're talking about being 'unwilling to lose', as in losing the safety/life of a family member'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and valuing the lives of family members vs those of invading criminals'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Duels is agreeing with that Trist person again...
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Duels, we live immersed in a world of threats. The nurturing environment is also deadly. What one can expect from such position is that one day you will firebomb your neighbors just in case they had evil intentions toward you. '
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'again, a huge exaggeration and misrepresentation unbased on anything i've said'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i'm talking purely about defense from within the house that i own and reside in'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'that is the paranoia I was talking about, and I think Aphelion explained it in own words'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'not the "preemptive self-defense" of my govt, lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lol im willing to protect my family so that means I will somhow be paranoid to kill my neighbors because i think they MIGHT be a threat? lololol'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'right, i'm paranoid.  but don't trust the news, man... they're out to get you!'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Im talkin about t\taking out imediat threats'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'if you were aware of your paranoia we wouldn't be having this argument :) I invite you to consider this argument as an invitation to rethink the whole context'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and there's a chance you could be depriving a child of medication by harming this intruder who is impinging upon the safety of your own child.'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'likewise, of course'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the problem is that this is the kind of thinking that leads to "opps, I thought he was going to hurt me" type shooting when the one shot didn't even know you were alive.'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'Rein i dont understand what your argument has base in tbh'
T3/r7/2016-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: '... and yes, don't trust the news blindly. Rethink, and then if you decide it makes sense, it's up to you. If not, you always have Google at your service.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I shouldnt kill an intruder because they MIGHT not harm me or my fam and they MIGHT be doing it because they need to? um what?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'heh, don't trust the media at all.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'yes, aphelion, please keep blinding ignoring the important step of warning the intruder that i've reiterated numerous times now.  it might it impossible to keep repeating your fantastic vision of "everyone with a gun shoots first and asks questions later!"'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I disagree on trist on this if you break into my home I will shoot first'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'sorry, people never get shot because the shooter mistakenly thought they were a threat. My apologies.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'no duels. we don't have a specific example at hand, so both sides are talking about different things about the same topic. I am not saying that you shouldn't protect your family. I am saying that having firearms and using them to 'defend' yourself is highly controversial.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'yes, your'e right; if one person has done it that means all people must do it aphelion'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and duels, i don't deny your right to do so.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the thing is that with this philosophy you can be expected to be shot for no reason also, since you are admitting you will shot the wrong person if you think it's necessary. They may do something preemptive toward you.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'reincore if i'm understanding your position, your feeling is that invasion deterrent is fair and warranted (stronger doors, security system etc), but if an invasion happens anyway and you happen to detect it, well then hope for the best?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'So, I do live in a dangerous downtown area. And the threat is not from "robbers" and "thieves". It is from people who have been deprived of proper mental health care, who have been deprived of proper food and housing and have lost their way, from vets who have no support from our government and have PTSD. They might just try to get into your house one day or one night. Not really intending to hurt you or yours, but to stay alive another day. And you would gun them down in cold blood, not even thinking if they were armed? You need to see the real world.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'aphelion: i'm admitting in the context of my own home at night im' willing to shoot someone who breaks in, seems threatening, and is unwilling to leave. it's not really preemptive once they're already in your home'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'no. you have the right to protect yourself and your loved ones, humanely. I hope none of us has to experience such a thing, but if you desperately want to hurt the intruder in the name of self-defense, you can always use other things, say, blunt weapons or whatever. I am not going to advocate weapons in this context, but with firearms you won't be doing anyone any good, including yourself and your loved ones.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so if I have something that rolls onto your lawn in the middle of the night, I can expect to be shot if I try to retrieve it. Because my intrusion can be conveniently seen as an assault.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I don't really care one way or other. I am just showing you that trying to make ethical justifications for violence doesn't work. What causes you to attack someone just on the basis of perception is not particularly rational.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the "rational" part is the attempts at justification that come later. "Well, I thought..."'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the truth of the matter is that very little thinking was involved.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'your argument completely ignores any notion of personal space, or self-defense.  maybe you don't believe in either, i don't know.  but the same risk of post-incident justification exists for after your family member is injured/killed "i didn't think..."'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and someone on your lawn is a completely different world than someone in your house or walking upstairs to the the sleeping area of the house'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'always de-esculate situations, never esculate unnless you fear for your immediate life or someone elses life'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Iyes, sure, but people have been shot for entering someone's lawn. The shooter then goes "Well, I thought..."'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the point is that self-defense is not rational, though the methodology may be. Fear is instinctive. The problem is that now people are trying to tie fear reflexes with ethical positions.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lol I wouldnt shoot someone for being in my lawn'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'breaking into my house at 12 AM thats a diff matter'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'maybe you wouldn't, but that's not too much of a guarantee.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'If I did there would be a lot of dead wild turkeys'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'it is undoubted that there is someone out there that would shoot someone for entering their lawn.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'for sure but those are the same ind of crazy people that would kill for other reasons'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you cant compare that to someone who would shoot someone in defense'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if only a tenth of one percent of the people are that crazy we are in a world of hurt alrady.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'There is not a lot scarier thing than a wild turkey landing on your roof on the way to your lawn'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and there are those that would shoot someone and claim that they thought it was a wild turkey :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I live in an open carry state and in a small town... proably at least 5% of people here open carry.. guess how many shooting deatsh weve had in the last 5 years'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: '1'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I mean bow many people have been shoot allegedly because they were confused with game?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'I had not thought of shooting the turkey and claiming I thought it was an invader. Genius!'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if the population doesn't fluctuate. there is no need for any kind of carry so the statistics are worthless.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'aphelion i'm sure there is someone who would shoot someone for entering their lawn.  i'm not that person though so arguing against that viewpoint with me is kind of pointless'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and therein lies the rub, it's ok that 1 in 1 million gets accidentally (or otherwise) while entering someone's lawn. We can live with that margin of error :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'who said it was okay? i'm not really sure what you're arguing here'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'So get back to my meth head, or PTSD, or just out of it person who means you no harm and does not even know you are home, but opens your door.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'as long as we are not the one shot, it's deplorable if hit happens but acceptable.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I own a 9mm semi a .30-06 rifle a .22 revolver and a .22 marlin rifle'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'so your idea is that there should be no guns allowed because there is at least 1 crazy person out there who might hurt someone else if they get a gun?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'the only one loaded is the 9mm and its my home defense gun'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ok, here is how it works. If I ever get pissed off at someone bad enough I might try to break their jaw, they can count on not being shot by me because I don't own a gun. No one can say that abouty you, Duels.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'why do you have the others then, if I may ask Duels?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Oh, that is dangerous. A 9mm is just going to anger an armed and aggressive intruder'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'and then we step into the only criminals should have guns arguement... cus guess what crims wil always have guns'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lol arnica'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'of course, you may consider that pissing you off is a crime punishable by death, and you may be right.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'ummm take a 9mm hollowpoint and see if your just "pissed off"'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'not to mention you can probably hold quite a few 9mm rounds.  mine holds 17 in the clip'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'mine only holds 9 shots but thats plenty lol and i can get clips that hold ore'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'a serious intruder in kevlar with 12 gauge would make your place vanish'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lmao what kind of scenarios are thes in your head arnica?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'but the seriuos intruder in kevlar and a 12 gauge wouldn't do anything malicious at all if he was unarmed i bet'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'the argument that criminals will always have guns are flawed, by its core. Thats just fear mongering, people use what they can get their hands on'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'he's just there for medicine!'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i mean if the homeowner was unarmed'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'the scenarios you are making up of a SWAT Raid'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'crims will always have guns... not all crims will have guns but guns will always be avail to thos ewho want them'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'at this point I'd like to say that it's not even about the intrusion anymore. I simply find the fact that firearms, self defense, intruders and related concepts occupy too much room in your consciousness that it drives you thinking way too much about these things, which I personally find unhealthy. I am not saying it is wrong in this sentence, mind you.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'I never imagined of owning a weapon to defend myself'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'Most of the time your not dealing, with planned organized crime who will equip themself to the teeth, your just dealing with crime of oppertunity'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i could argue the same about you, based on the narrow context of this isolated debate conversation on aardwolf on this particular night'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'face it everything else, you just kill some dumb fuck'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'so if someone with a kevlar vest and a 12 gauge invade my home im better off unarmed... lol were you dropped as a kid?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i purchased a firearm, i sometimes shoot it at the range for fun, the rest of the time i don't think about it (except when someone starts making goofy generalizations in an argument like this)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Yes, If a SWAT team invades your house, raise your hands'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'classy, trist. thanks'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the thing is that "good" guy or "bad" guy is just a construct. For the target anyone holding a gun is a bad guy, color of hat notwithstanding.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'yea the 9mm sits in its spot 99% of the time... the rifle is used for hunting and the 22s are used for fun/target practice'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'your not a bad guy if you hold a gun lmao but you are if you are breaking into someones home'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'again, define "bad"'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: '"bad" someone breaking into your home'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'hurting someone can be bad.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'is that clear enough?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'So if someone breaks into your house in your absence they have a 9 mm?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you make no sense'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'that is clear, but that is simply wrong and inaccurate to me duels.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'if they break into my home and im not there they arnt a threat'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'So if someone breaks into your house in your absence, is your 9 mm out on your nightstand?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'well no prob not if me and my fam arnt there its prob in my safe or with me... but if im not there then what is the worry even if they get my 9?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Duels, you think you are the one who decides who is the "good" guy and who is the "bad" and that your judgment is impeccable, as long as you are holding the gun. I bet you would disagree if the other party held the gun and labeled you as "bad" guy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'they arnt an imediate threat to me and a gun is replaceable'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: ''good' and 'bad' are purely subjective, you're right.  but we do have objective codifications of rules that protect our defined rights, etc. these are not decided upon by duels, but collectively by the voters in a jurisdiction'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I think you all are just scared of getting into an honest fist fight :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'um no if they are breaking into my home they arwe the bad guy ... if you dont get that then go back to coloring books'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'as long as i've been training mma, i'm fairly certain that would be the least of my worries lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'You had to think about that? Either you do not leave your house, or you routinely lkeave a weapon out.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'but getting into fights is the last thing in the world i'd want in my house in the middle of the night, you're right'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i keep my firearm in a quick access gun safe'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'wtf are you taling about arnica'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that's true Duels, but that also hold for "If I think they are breaking into my house" scenario, whether you are right or wrong. Which is the point. You are willing to take a life and then go into the "Well, I thought..." skit.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'you holding the gun at your own house doesn't make you a good guy, that's my point. the moment you hold a gun, to me you are on the edge of being a "bad guy".'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I have no prob taking their life'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'and that makes you a bad guy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I wouldnt feel the LEAST bit guilty'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'thats a joke'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I hope rein'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'well, if taking a life doesn't bother you, that's not a good thing to me. maybe "bad" is too bold of a claim, I only used it because we've been sticking to that terminology in this argument'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'Duels why wouldnt you just get a safe near the nightstand and keep it in?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'the good news is your interpretation of what a 'bad guy' is, is of course, completely subjective.  you're best off living with like-minded people in a jurisdiction with laws that support that kind of lifestyle'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'anyone threatens me or my fam life and we are in imiediate danger yea you can die and I dont care Ill even piss on your grave :P'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'That is correct, so you are no different from the "bad" guy and are just as much of a threat to society. I can't be safe near you because if you get a  bug up your ass that i am a threat, I am a dead man. Whether I am an actual threat or not.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'cus a safe means more time to get to my gun'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'if anyone threatens your family, how come you piss on my grave'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'the other guns are in a safe'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'yes, and by that argument I should take you out as soon as I notice you because you are, admittedly, a potential threat.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'wtf a bug in my ass... im talking about breaking into my home how is that a bug in my ass and how does that make me a threat?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'ah, you are going to claim here that you are a rational human being and not capable of shooting me by mistake. But your previous statements show that you will kill me without any hesitation if you are entertaining a fantasy that I am a theat.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'well game theory-wise, it would be in a criminal's best interest to just take out any people in the house who could possibly stop or identify them later'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'if they could do so quietly and undetected'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'threat*'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'so i agree, if you're this home invader, you should take me out pre-emptively'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'or invade a home that is unoccupied'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'except life isn't game theory and actual emotions are involved as well, along with logic'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'You simply have not seen enough family members dead by their own guns, Duels. I have seen far too many. Some accidental, the majority. Some intentional, the most tragic. A gun unsecured is a gun that will kill.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'wait, a home that is not occupied?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'but the fact that you're willing to invade an occupied home shows that you either a) somehow didn't notice the cars outside and other signs, b) think you are quiet enough to get away with it anyway, or c) are willing to do me harm to accomplish your objective'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'yes of course there are emotions involved, a wide variety'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'no, Trist, that is not quite true. That should read "but the fact is that IF I THINK you are willing to invade..."'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'because that is the whole point of the argument, that reality doesn't play a definitive role, your fantasy can be good enough to cause my death.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'jst a quick question... for those of you oppose to guns... what country do you live in?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i made a statement that started with "i agree" showing it was my opinion, which covers me not having to say "i think after each subsequent piece"'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I neve said I opposed guns. Though I may.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'I'm going to answer this by saying Europe.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I am just arguing against the justification behind a killing.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and the mere fact that we're discussing a completely opinion-based, subjective subject should show that every statement is based on what i think rather than a statement of objective reality (of which i have no access to), other than what the laws are'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'europe would be what i would have assumed'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'me too'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'or possibly a US college student'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'and America would be what I'd have assumed for you by your arguments'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'correctamundo'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'damn straight'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you mean that depending on one's genetic pool one is willing to kill without compulsion? That needs some proof.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: '"Every citizen should be a soldier.This was the case with the Greeks and Romans,and must be that of every free state."'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Duels, I do not oppose guns. I was raised with guns, learned gun safety before I was ten, and hunted. I have handguns, rifles=, and shotguns. I live in the USA. I will not use them on an intruder. Instead I have done two things. When I have to live in dangerous p[laces, I live in protected places. My personal property is in much more secure areas.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you live in protected places? we dont all have that '
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'thank all nonexistant gods that not all citizens are soldiers.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'that is a different situation. If everyone were a soldier we wouldn't be having this discussion. Soldiers would be aware of the risks and responsibilities on both sides of the argument, not to mentioned that they would both be armed likely enough. '
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'what are you talking about with genetic pools aphelion?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'armed and trained, so they would only act when the situation called for it rather than pull the trigger while wetting one's pants from fear.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you assume a lot'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you assume id pull the trigger if it wasnt a threat'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'less that you do. You assume that you are entitled to kill as long as you can come up with a "legal" reason.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you are wrong'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'your definition of a threat is prone to manipulation and miscalculation, duels.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I assume I can kill in defense... i dont really really care what the reprocussions are'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'yet you advocate empowering yourself'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'how do you define 'entitled', if not by legal justification?  by a religious one?  some abstract personal moral code that you adhere to?  does it disappoint you that everyone might not adhere to the same one?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'if I g to prison saving my fam then imok with that'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'The only major issue i have is, secure the gun, aim do de-esculate by reacting appriopiate to the situations that arrive. '
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Agreed'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'indeed, there is manipulation on my part. There is also manipulation on your part, because you are being pro active with your weapon and know that people will look askance. So as you shoot you create a "rational" scenario to justify. Now, it is quite possible that you were entitled to take that action, but that is also clear that you are willing to make a mistake and deplore the necessary collateral damage.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i am on board with that personally'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'And i counter with ...if you are breaking into my home its best to assume your intentions are bad and its better to remove the threat then "see what happens"'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'all actions are accompanied with a chance of mistake, aphelion.  to completely avoid the chance of error would be to lie in complete inaction'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malius: 'absolutly duels...dont even hesitate to pull that trigger and blow them off the planet'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'exactly this bothers me in your sentences. the "threat" you are "eliminating" is a human being. and I am not okay with the idea that you are okay with taking a life in cold blood, based on your assumptions.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'right, I am happy that you are on board with it Tritst :) I am hopeful that if you are the one at the sharp end of the stick you will accept being collateral damage :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'if eliminating that threat save me or my fam then good... if not then they shouldnt have been breakinginto my house in the first place'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'My issue is that is sounds like Duels wants, actually desires to live in a Mad Max world'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'glad to see you taking the high road in hoping i come to personal harm, lol'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'id willing go to prison for trying to defend my fam'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i won't wish the same for you, i hope your victim mentality ends up working out for you anyway and you have a safe and long life'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'okay I am tired of reading the same arguments because no matter what I say they don't change. I hope you live new things and gather new experiences and your ideas will be more flexible in the future.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'again, you act as if reality backs you up unconditionally. The best you can say is "What I thought to be a threat..." and hope we believe you didn't mean to shoot the innocent person.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'and if someone comes nto your home to rape your children Rein I hope you have more then words to defend them'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'fearmongering'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I would help you put them down, Duels. But not everyone who enters your lawn is a rapist.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'but everyone who enter your home unwanted is a threat'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'wow my children just got raped for you to prove your point'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'you are not will to make sure they are, you are willing to kill them and they go "Oh, my bad..." and go on with your life after you extinguished there because of a fantasy.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'and Im sorry you werent able to denfend yourself from it with aything but words... me on the othr hand ill just shoot em'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'and what they were justified in breaking into my home?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if you need a fait accompli to judge one's intention you shouldn't be allowed to cross the street without a guard.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'you don't know me, you don't know my means of defending myself, you don't know my life, you don't know my family. Yet you don't find it rude to make scenarios about my life, where my children get raped according to you'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'I wish you some common sense dear Duels, and some manners. Also suggest reading about the concept of "ad hominem" as you wander around the borders of it'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Reincore: 'I no longer feel like this is a debate based on arguments. Good night everyone.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'good night'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'you don't know me, you don't know my means of defending myself, you don't know my life, you don't know my family. '
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'but at least I will defend them'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the point is that you don't clarify what "breaking into my home means". Technically, walking on your lawn constitutes a break in.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'sorry your fam doesnt have the same security'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and you already have said you are willing to shoot someone that odes.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'maybe it does where you're from, but breaking into your house here is clearly defined as being inside of your house :P'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'does*'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'I allready said I wouldnt shoot someone for waling on my lawn but breakign into my locked home yea... your dead'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'Last option should be to use lethal force, not first. '
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'not if you break into my house'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'i agree with that, but it should remain an option.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'your dead before you can even take in the surroundings'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'boohoo'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'Duels seems to be one of those that is just looking for an excuse to kill.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'sorry you wouldnt save your fam in the same way'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'bad for them'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'pussy move for you'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'how many people in your town have been killed lately by randorm looters who kill whole families duel'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'you said before 0'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'ummm want me to show police reports'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashii: 'that means its all in your head'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'I would, if had to. I wouldn't walk around going "I hope some mf breaks into my house so I can blow his ass away"'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'it happens'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'lmao'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'so perhaps what is at issue is your attitude :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'prove your pont by putting words in my mouth?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'i never said that you did'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'no, I am not putting words in your mouth,  I am just showing how you look to me :)'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Duels: 'thats YOUR parinoia'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'honest question aphelion.  if a homeowner is armed and posted at the top of the stairs to their top floor (bedrooms), shouts a warning that they're armed and not to come upstairs (possibly with warning shot), and the intruder proceeds upstairs anyway, does that constitute a threat to you?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'not trying to convince you of anything, i'm genuinely curious'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'and if not, at what point could a threat be determined?'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'if an intruder enters my house and I perceive them to be a threat, which your scenario clears shows they are, I would blow them away.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'thanks'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'and probably would need therapy for a long time thereafter.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'But you haven't exhausted the tea nad crumpets option'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'If I gave the impression that a life should not be taken in one's defense then I apologize. My argument is against the taking of life with what amounts as depraved indifference as long as one can generate a justifying scenario.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'This is where you hand them a metal fork, tell them the toaster sticks and ask them to fish out the crumpets. Then jar their arm to contact fork to toaster element'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taeryn: 'There is the Vizzini route to consider.  Poison a cup of tea and play headgames with the intruder.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'and put on Halestorm at 75% volume'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Freak Like Me gets them every time'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'with modern technology as it stands, shooting someone who breaks into your house seems to be the cheap and lowbrow way out. You could make your house break-in-proof with the firing of a bullet the last remote resort.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Wait They cant afford to get out of danger zone'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taeryn: 'If they were a zombie, I would say shoot them before the Supreme Court says that zombies are people with rights.'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'It is all self invited angst'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'Zombies are people my friends'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Trist: 'they just want sustenance like the rest of us'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Oak Tender Arnica: 'I did find the US Policy that defines corporations as people'
T3/r7/2016-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Oak Tender Arnica gathers a group of zombies and incorporates them as Zombies United
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '#BlackCrimesMatter'
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taeryn: '#MakeTrumpDrumpfAgain'
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'You racist, you won't even condemn the KKK'
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taeryn: 'My bad.  #MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain #SorryJonOliver'
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jon Oliver isn't as funny as he thinks he is'
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'most people aren't'
T3/r7/2016-02-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mannec: 'last week tonight roolz yall.'