T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone here ?' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dru been here recently ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'He renamed, but yes.' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Chemosh.' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just wait for the spam and you'll know' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav rapidly nods twice at Sonshi, in complete agreement. T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol :) dude should have gone into thorasics ' T3/r6/2012-05-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone ? anything ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'meat glue. discuss?' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vegan: 'im all for glutamate.' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'I glue my meat with Elmers' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'guess that debate didnt happen the way you wanted huh?' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Geez, what's that smell? Guess Dirkdiggler needs to poop. T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just in case you were wondering, there actually is a product referred to as meat glue. Its for turning scrap meat into real cuts of meat like filet mignon.' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and here you thought the only ones using it were canneries and fast food restaurants. Silly foodies!' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'yea yea we all have yahoo news' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <3 DJ Matty: 'Level 20 aard weapons are terrible purchases: fact or fiction?' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'nonsense' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'i mean.. these are nonsense' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'ludicrous waist of qp' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'no sane person would ever buy such junk' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I prefer ludicrous hips of qp.' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'u making fun of my english?' T3/r6/2012-05-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'i come to your home and make speak mistaky english!' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dru?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so which conflict is most likely, USA vs Iran, China vs India, N.Korea vs S.Korea, or USA vs Texas?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what happened to china vs russia?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russia vs USA is more likely' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I doubt it. Russia is China's not-so-secret public enemy number 1' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the winners get China in the final' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'unlikely those two support each other at tye security council' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Charlee Sheen: 'Maybe they're in couple's counseling. :P' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and russia/USA don't have claims on each other' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia threatened to use tacs on the US missile defence shield in eastern europe if they carry on building them' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think as much as posturing to reinforce power over the small eastern european nations than anything' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, it's the usual bluffing' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'and everyone else will smack them if that happens' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"if you help the west, we'll nuke you"' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like hell they will' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rest of europe is bankrupt' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you know there's real tension when there're core territory claims and they're utterly silent.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'being in debt is not the same as bankrupt' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody in europe has sufficient armed forces to tackle Russia' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-period-' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'wrong' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you mean there's a secret force hidden somewhere/' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'russia is still a poor country' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia is -not- a poor country' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'germany france and england have key nato roles n the event of russia rollng across europe' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roles that they couldn't fulfil if they needed to' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'their conventional military isn't all it's cracked up to be. Corruption and such...' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'russia is poor in moral and economic sense, but they have the most resources' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still stronger than any one EU nation, but...' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir shrugs helplessly. T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'small countries (including mine) have been at war with russia and won before' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best of luck to you, then :-)' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'they have quantity, but no quality' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and russia per captia real gdp is around the level of countries like malaysia and argentina...' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also controls the gas supplies to most of europe' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it isn't like it's the only supplier' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'more or less, sonshi' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the russian economy would tank if they didn't keep selling. If they sold to someone else instead, the ex-suppliers of that someone else would just sell yo europe.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'russia is not as unified as most people think' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and if china develops a missile shield, odds are that they'd demand their former core territories back from russia, as soon as the taiwan "issue" is resolved' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hallet: 'shield of aardwolf for a pclass warrior ?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'do you plan on being the one getting hit all the time?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hallet: 'yup' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Really R. Bigman smirks. T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hallet: 'maybe I should ask if going dual over shield is better' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lemme rephrase: do you plan on dying in most of your fights because you're the one getting slapped around?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hallet: 'I dont die (much)' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the shield is great if you are finding yourself in longish or challenging fights, where a whirlwind of attacks still isn't fast enough to save your behind.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if all your fights are short/easy, dual weapons is better.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hallet: 'thats kinda what I thought , still might get one just to see' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's an either/or choice between 15% less damage per hit versus double the damage (and more, given the various attack skills in play)' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hallet: 'but as a barbarian - Extra attacks when not dual wielding weapons' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Charlee Sheen: 'Next class: Mage, Thief, or Paladin - GO.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Charlee Sheen: 'Thief = Warrior.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I usually make warrior my fourth class.' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Charlee Sheen: 'Really? How come?' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Decrept: 'extra attacks are sexy' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'fourth attack' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'they moment she said that I typed "whois" lol' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Charlee Sheen nods. T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Also, you get attack skills at lower level when you take warrior' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Charlee Sheen nods at Starling. T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Decrept: 'i took war before cleric personally' T3/r6/2012-05-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Charlee Sheen: 'Warrior it is. Thanks. <3' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'how bout this one ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'que?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ur gonna be appaled at the response ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go on' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'i miss dru - someone cart him off ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite possibly' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'neat type speed etc - topic ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whatever you like' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'damnit - soz wrong chan\' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'blake fan ?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'name info ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'h?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what does your online name mean ?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mean? doesn't 'mean' anything, it's a name' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.thegoonshow.net/scripts_show.asp?title=s05e25_the_white_box_of_great_bardfield' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you have an attatchement to it ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'goon show - spike milligan - you lot have a narrow band of humour ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who is 'you lot'?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'very few people here know of it, yet it's the major influece for the likes of Monty Python and as a result, things that happened thereafter' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and unlike a lot of comedy these days, wasn't based on insulting people or being rude, or needing to be satirical' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the ppl that trot out a line from faulty towers / python / goons etc etc and expect a grin of oknloligement ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's like being a member of a club' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt if i said "don't tell him, Pike", it'll draw blank looks' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I like the semantic play of ye minister - actually learned something therer' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i guess the stoner in me appreciates the bizarre and surreal humour' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the humor was divided into sets - heller - catch 22 etc was critique- humour ?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I once saw a comic from the french rev period that had the pesant carrying the tax burden' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't surprise me' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that has not changed imo' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seeing a bit of a socialist backlash happening in europe. I'm glad they're mobilising, but they're targetting the wrong people' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socalism will work in the NWO's favour' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what exactly ? soz but i'm heavily medicated ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Druggie' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'socialism doesn't work, sadly' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'timely and intellectual intervention by Starling, as always' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yep' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'under capitalism you get global corporations holding all the money and all the power' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'under socialism you get global corportations masquerading as governments holding all the money and all the pwoer' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so really, other than the colour, what's the difference?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'At least capitalism is honest' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'riiigggghhhttt' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'starling it is not my choice - tin communisim loks great on paper - forget the meatsack narcissist ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Capitalism is honest in that companies don't pretend to be legitimate governments. They flat out admit to bribing officials and lobbying legislatures. *shrug*' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty ridiculous thing to say' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps it would be healthier to categorise them as good or evil' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'triple bottom line is an alien concept ?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at some point along that spectrum' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'non disclosure by private companies cased the downfall of th e US enron -freddy - fannie etc ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're a power to themselves' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they largely work outside US control' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the wealth gets drained off-shore' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a US group can hit bin laden yet they cannot hit these organisations ? who is the biggest threat ?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Capitalism works since it's based on human nature (selfish, shortsighted, stupid), but for capitalism to work well, it requires sensible regulation.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bin laden was never much of a threat' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yet enron was ..' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and enron is on the side of the people sitting in/beside/behind the throne' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and the US political system is set up to more or less maximize the influence of money given that you have a democracy' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as are jp morgan, goldmann sachs etcs' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'biggest threat to america at the moment is creeping federalisation' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'loss of control/accountability of state governance' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Tigernuts ponderingly. T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was the single biggest thing going for the USA' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Welcome to 1861 and the Lincoln presidency!' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'over here in the UK we're already screwed, we're already firmly under the thumb of Europe' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'biggest threat to the US is China' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China is no threat to USA' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'lol, China is no threat to the USA?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'which rock have you been hiding under?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA and China have a symbiotic relationship, their destinies are entwined' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) CheeZy Bot HiSaZuL: 'since we are primary paycheck for china... no actually we arent' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without USA, half of china's export market disappears' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'resources run out - who tales them ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without china, USA good shoot up in money and their banker disappears' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) CheeZy Bot HiSaZuL: 'we can both sit and scream baddie at each other all day long but... in the end we arent going too far from each other' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'oh I forgot - the biggest threat to the US is the US and after that China' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <3 DJ Matty: 'Also, the USA exports massive amounts of energy to China. China is already suffering from brownouts.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <3 DJ Matty: 'China is currently an unsustainable country.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's far more likely' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'recently the feds threatened Texas with a blockade if they went ahead with a proposed law to make FDA checkpoints illegal' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, tSA, not FDA, can't keep up with all your acronyms' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'china is already occupying Australia thru legal means ie land aquisition raw minerals mining dependancy etc ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone seen the movie Red Dawn ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'european, american, and chinese agrocorps also doing the same in Africa and eastern europe' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the american federal government has been deliberately pushing out small/family owned farms so that farming corps can take over american farming' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're all going for powergrab ready for resource wars/shortages' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so in the end we will be fighting our own police \' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'recent budget cuts to defence in oz align with a compliciant attitude to this ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz can say and unserstan it atm just can't yype it ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'how close to soylent green are we ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'best info is that land is at a premium and noone will use a nuke ..' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can the US preemptive strike China with a nuke and survive ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'obviously thru terrorist means ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'where is Dru ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm interested in fiction that mirrors our present situation ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the killing of packer/murdock - i ferget which is a start to the fall? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm here for assessment - why the hhours - - hopefully my interaction shows me a good citizen ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone/thing while i'm here ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my name is Ozymandia !' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol ...' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'got left with a sticky keyboard n net access - I'll not trade ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'the last war will be over water' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'arrrggg' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'no. the last war will be over the last girl alive' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The last war will be over at about 5:30' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'lol thats not a resource' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'last war is over the last pleasure' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'which is water' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'what if the last water is in the .. um.. was pee?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'i kill you! i need your pee!' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'SILENCE! I keel you!' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and you'd be more likely to have them kill you to drink your blood.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'well if we could drink pee we wouldnt have a water crysis' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'pee is good for you.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'and so is shit??' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'only for germans' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'lol i dislike germans they ugly' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'dung beetles live off it, and beetles are the most prolific species on the planet, so...' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'darn. we'll get banned here:)' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'dein deutchland ist blode' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'so you saying shit is good for you?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'no its not theres a reason why the previous person deposited it!' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'its waste' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Dung beetles have survived for 40 million years eating it.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'ive seen so many germans but never coult point out what was wrong with them... until this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7HVpPbSEvE' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'so have humans, but just taking it' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You think humans have been here for 40 million years?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'humans first were adam and eve the bible says god created them just afrter all the animals so yes' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'It also says the earth is about 6,000 years old' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '40 million > 6,000' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no, really?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei rapidly nods twice at Dispel Majic, in complete agreement. T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'lol well the oldest archilogical remain is what 5000b.c?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'religion is just a goldmine for sane(immoral) people abusing the deluded ' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'just fyi -- 5000 bc is more than 6000 years old.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '(also, that's not the oldest dig, but I wasn't even getting into that)' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gregor: 'Majic is lying' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'How come Adam and Eve have belly buttons?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gregor: 'Yeah uhm....who said that they do?' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'don't believe it's mentioned one way or the other.' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gregor: 'next' T3/r6/2012-05-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it was actually a great cause of theological debate as to whether adam would have had one or not, iirc.' T3/r6/2012-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone anything ? Dru ?' T3/r6/2012-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arkansas policeman tazers a 10yr old girl after she refused to take a shwoer' T3/r6/2012-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shower*' T3/r6/2012-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hmm, that was the only time you lost to a T0?' T3/r6/2012-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'mis' T3/r6/2012-05-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm... sarkozy defeat narrower than expected. Maybe turnout among the far-right wasn't as bad as predicted?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will be good to keep half an eye on europe now' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i bet hollande won't be even remotely as left wing as he's been building up to be' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'll be bought/threatened by the NWO like all the others' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(if he hasn't already been yet)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I doubt he'll be as right wing as sarkozy, at least...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sarkozy isn't right wing' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's mildly right of centre' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he did throw his hat in with the austerity crowd...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was largely forced to' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not like they put a gun to his head' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's a patsy, and germany's puppy' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'merkozy?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the same way that the encumbents in the UK are Bilderberg members, and the opposition party mostly bilderberg/communist party members' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, sonshi' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder how far hollande will go in rejecting austerity' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that'll depend' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the greek situation is also interesting' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has to break away from the EU to follow austerity' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so inevitably he'll be radical, or just identical to sarkozy' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'reject, you mean' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and there's plenty of room for fiscal policy, even if monetary policy is constrained' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, not really' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'france is a member of the euro, can't just print more, can't just raise taxes, and can't spend 4% above income' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that sounds more like a straightjacket' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'traditional lefty would immediately nationalise a bunch of stuff, hoike taxes up for the everybody but the rich particularly, and set up import restrictions' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is why you quietly slip currency into the black market.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like the US?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Exactly.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, like I said, not much control over monetary policy, but who's really going to tell them they can't overspend' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the deficit rule is only for small, non-core countries' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err no, it's for all of them' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'practically, if not legally' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the whole point, and why UK refused to sign it' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there are repercussions to breaking these things, but for a core country, it doesn't matter too much' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hope you can look back and see how absurd that statement is, even if true' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they can just shrug, say oops, and take the influence hit' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully they'll drop out of the euro, devalue, and cause europe to collapse as a political project' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt the NWO will allow that though' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'takes a brave head of state to take them on' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'france is unlikely to do that' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'greece is a possibility' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'spain may also exit if nothing changes on the policy front' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by the time that happens we'll have a federal USA' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and possibly a return of the cold war' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the usa is already federal...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is, but it had a constitution, bill of rights, and sovereign states' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is being dismantled' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it has never been not-federal...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it was never a fascist dictatorship, was it?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's the natural destination of the current direction of travel' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I thought you said the usa will be federal. Which it already is' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'France and Germany should form a little group all to themselves, and tell the UK it can join if it tells the US to get it's fucking hands out of its legislature.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the power is centralising, sonshi' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US's powerbase (was) upside-down compared to the UK' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it was the correct way up as it was, tbh' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it's centralising, wouldn't it be no longer federal? I'm not sure what you're saying here...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've described what's happening, you're just picking holes in my misuse of terminology' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, what will happen in the usa is still up in the air currently.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'times like these are pick-your-poison, usually' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it'll be bad, but what kind of bad is hard to predict' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless somehow Ron Paul wangles his way into candidacy, the result is a forgone conclusion' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The only way out I see for the US's polarisation atm is exodus or upheaval. And upheavals are usually pretty bad for the locals.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are plenty of scenarios one can throw around...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe romney wins, proves to be incompetent (as might be expected), the two parties continue to weaken...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'romney or obama win are the same scenario' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they both have the same agenda' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'declining trust in federal government eventually leads to decentralisation, etc.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yeah, that's why people are arming up and why the feds are creating an army outside the current armed forces and police system' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's also completely incompetent scenario, which leads to widespread unrest' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA is Europe's last hope for freedom, really, since we're all screwed over here' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have a constitution, and none of us were armed to start with' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'completely incompetent president, that is. And congress.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise that obama already passed legislation that allows him to bypass congress....' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Hmm. Obama can't pass legislation. He's not a legislator.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd need both to be completely incompetent. Although one of them's a given.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can go to war, declare marshal law, and confiscate any property' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can have people disappeared without trial or charge' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Which is not passing legislation.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at what point does it require legislation?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not enough to wreck the country to the point of civil uprisings' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll shit it up some, though' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Don't all presidents get 1 free personal 'disappearance' per term?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but not enough' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, you must be mightily relieved that your country is only going to be shitted up' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not for the really bad scenarios, at least' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'total justification for his actions :-)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I can just fly back home, I suppose' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'All I'm saying is that if you're going to accuse him or anybody else of wrong doing, get your framework straight. Obama doesn't pass legislation. Saying that he does undermines your credibility.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he signs the legislation' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Which is not passing it. It's signing it.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Congress passes legisltation.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not lately.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not vetoing != passing' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can pass presidential directives' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as they don't close the airports, I'm fine!' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'No. He can authorize presidential directives.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the same thing' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Language matters. ' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the supreme court can overrule any directive.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the surpeme court filled with his cronies, no doubt' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'No it can't. The supreme court can only rule on cases brought before it.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'any citizen can take something to the supreme court if you follow the process.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'The court can't independently rule on anything, whether it approves or not.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'only if the citizen has standing on the particular issue' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the supreme court is now 5-4 to the right wing, from what I hear' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no such things as wings' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'what about hot wings ?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all those party line rulings aren't doing wonders for its credibility as an institution' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'ALL publicly notorary US politicians are right wing.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Any citizen can *apply* to have a case heard before the Supreme Court. After it has gone through federal court and the federal court of appeals. And the supreme court is not obligate to hear a case that has been ruled upon by the circuit court. In fact, the Supreme Court routinely declines to hear the vast majority of cases brought to it.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, value your consitution, value your liberty, those of us in Europe don't have it anymore' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Which country are you in, Tiger?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ok. Just curious. I lived in NL for about three years.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't the government just fall in NL?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country's constitution guarantees freedom of speech, except where parliament sees fit to restrict it. Freedom of assembly, except where parliament sees fit to restrict it. Freedom of... you get the point.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Not to my knowledge, but I haven't been keeping up. ' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where they see fit to restrict is not usually lawful and indicative of the attacks your constitution is under' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, but they're doing it to protect us...how could that not be lawful???' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You are cheered on by Tigernuts... you feel so loved! T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's also the minor matter of the ruling party (always) having a large enough majority to amend the constitution at will...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, yes, we all need 'protecting'' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're a terrorist lover/harborer if you don't agree that we need this power' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we so badly need protecting that the governments go to great lengths to create problems to protect us from' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'My wife still lives in NL (it's not exactly the most normal marriage ever) and she didn't mention anything recently about the gov't there, but I'll ask her.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, was Holland' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ';-)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yep. Holland = NL. Colloquially, anyway.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17820503' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, but some people get snippy about it' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home, if you don't agree with their security policies, they don't call you a terrorist lover or anything like that. They roll their eyes and call you naive...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now it's known as "the country that USED to be a good place to go for a stag party"' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the US, they now call such people terrorsts, Sonshi' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I know...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Kind of funny, actually. For the first few months I was there, I made a point of calling everyplace outside of the two Hollands NL. Finally gave up after it became apparent that the Dutch called the whole place Holland, too.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hollande had planned to raise higher rate income tax to 70%' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yeah, they pay high taxes. I almost fell over when I learned that they pay 33% sales tax on an auto.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not unusual for europe' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'europe is a lot more crowded :p' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a walloping big welfare state and enormous indirect taxation, now they tax everyone so heavily that half of the population is on some form of welfare because wages don't have to keep up with living costs' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'self-inflicted problem' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I really wish that we in America were better served by public trans so that it was reasonable to not have a car in smaller towns outside of the big city. ' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Me too, Maj. Hell, I just wish we had good rail service. I love riding the trains in Europe.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the UK you won't' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gregor: 'I just agree with everything Majic says' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I heard the bidding on a ten year piece of quota on a car has gone well past 50kUSD at current exchange rates...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they say we have low taxes... they just make people pay for a lot of stuff.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't like people travelling, they'll price it out of the reach of many, and for those left they'll regulate it so heavily that you're tracked every inch you go' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not that that's bad...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'govt lojacking your car is not nice, fight the power!' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one thing I noticed about the us is that a lot of people live in suburbs with crappy public transport...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bastards tried to get per mile gas taxes with gps trackers in some states, but the people wouldnt have any of that.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll force it through, riz' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home people live in clusters of high density public housing, which is well served by public transport, among other services' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'being high density and all' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll come via the insurance companies first' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Sonshi, most suburbs don't have public transport at all, unless they inner burbs of larger cities. DC, for example.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'good luck on that, more states are becoming more independant of the feds, and voting on more and more things.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'like no need taxes without a public vote, etc.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here, we'll get lumbered with it' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no new that is' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm not sure, but I think the public transport around here must be subsidized in some way to survive. Most families have their own car and don't really want to be restricted to the bus schedule' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already largely a requirement if you're a young driver' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise you just get priced off the road' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so they're just normalising it at the moment' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'low density housing is typically badly served, not only by public transport...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at some point they'll just make it compulsory' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Heh heh. I'm definitely in low-density housing, no doubt about it. My nearest neighbor is a half mile away ;)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be nice' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're all forced to live in shoeboxes' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nice, unless you get a heart attack...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yes, it's nice. Has its drawbacks, too. When I lived in DC I put about 7000 miles per year on my car. Now I ring up 20k a year.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or even a toothache.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'having lots of land is overrated.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unless you can make money from it, and not have to live on it.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having no land is overrated' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'It is overrated, Riz, I agree. But it's pretty nice, too.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, I'm living in student apartments in a block full of student apartments. We do have a bus that comes by but it's on a half-hour schedule and takes you to the university campus. To get to shopping you need to take a different bus that's on a one-hour schedule.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I prefer to not live on my land in northwest texas.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a nice amount of land is about a dozen acres' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'grass fires, tornadoes, and lots of hail, plus it is too damn flat.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home, for the average family, getting to shopping involves taking the lift down and crossing the road, and maybe walking a little' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the only good thing about nw texas is the natural gas underneath, and the wind speed above it.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'The space is beautiful and serene. The neighbors are friendly, caring, and helpful. But the absolutely closest thing to me of any sort is a general store that's 7.5 miles away. The supermarket is closer to 15. The hospital is a good 20. ' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'give me a house in the suburbs and a cabin on a lake somewhere anyday....' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'meanwhile, the grocery is 3 miles away so unless you're really stocking up you might as well walk.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '(if you don't have a car)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'A cabin on a lake. I'd love that, too, Riz.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yeah, a bit of a pain, your situation, Maj.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I had a bike for a while, but we have no bike lanes here, and a car dinged me while I was riding it and totaled my bike.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am kinda partial to having a natural gas connection also, would be harder to get one living on the rural land somewhere, would have to use propane, and that would make it harder to drive a natgas vehicle.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Majic, you just reminded me of how great biking in Holland is. Everybody rides 'em. Country is flatter than a griddle.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Rhavage. T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nice and flat in illinois too.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Sure is :)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more people in the US should drive natgas cars.....$1.80 a gallon equivalent right now.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Korridel: 'Riz - I know canadian gvmt tried to introduce propane cars (which are even cheaper than natgas cars) in the late 80's, and it was shut down by the oil companies.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Korridel: 'I think it's brazil that's the leader in them, and they pay ~10 bucks USD to fill a tank' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most of those same oil companies make more money from natgas now. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Exxon gets half its production from natgas now.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides propane is expensive in the US' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I've been considering putting up a vertical-axis wind turbine. I've got the breeze, but the investment is about $5k. Would take a long time to save that back, so to speak.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Brazil is big on ethanol/gasoline cars, since they produce almost 50% of the ethanol.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'you sure have the breeze though' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Brazil would love to export cheap sugarcane ethanol to the US, but the feds would rather protect expensive corn ethanol in the US' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'on the farm in WI we had our own well. We had a windmill to pump the water out of the well into a holding tank. Saved a fair bit on electricity.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'God how I hate ethanol. Just murder on small engines. Everybody around here goes to the general store for their non-ethanol gas to use in mowers, chain saws, etc.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how about solar panels?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I hear the prices have gone down quite a lot' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Solar panels won't be a lot of help here in upstate NY. We invented the cloud :P' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'solar panel prices have been going up the last few years because of a lack of extra silicon.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... it could still result in a faster breakeven, if the price is low enough' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'still cheaper than 10 years ago, but higher than it should be if there was more silicon.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'from what I hear, prices have been crashing because of chinese overproduction and subsequent panic-induced dumping' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some companies signed long term contracts that they can't get out of or something' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a kyocera 123 watt panel from china is around $350' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the same panel, but made in Oregon would be about 20% more.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-10/solar-glut-to-worsen-after-prices-plunge-93-on-rising-supply-commodities.html' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you have to understand, just because factories make more, it doesnt mean it is easier for you to get the panels....most of those panels go big purchase clients, like in Germany, or Japan.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the supply in the US is low because solar is not that popular here.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure you have companies like google buying 5 MW of panels to put on their headquarters, but that doesnt happen often.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, depending on where you live, yeah, if there's a single (or few) supplier(s), you could get a monopoly type situation' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which results in non-market pricing' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'solar panel installation is restricted in the UK' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you get a better bang for the buck buying a wind turbine in the US than you do buying a solar panel.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sort of like how the qp/gold conversion rate doesn't matter very much if you're sitting at 1 or sh.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wind turbines are restricted here too' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's unfortunate, given how cheap it's getting' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a wind turbine can easily pay for itself in 7 years or less, but a solar panel is 20 years or more in most states.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are limited subsidies here for solar' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe if you had the capital, you could import them in bulk and start a business flogging solar...' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unless you can get a sweet deal from the state of california and the feds.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it'll pay in 13 years' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'solar panels have some awesome uses though.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'we have a solar panel for our moving electric fence in the far pastures' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it is WAY easier than trying to run a line out there.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: '7 years? Hmmm. That might be doable. The one I'm looking at generates 1800-2000 kwh/year in an average wind speed of 11-12 mph. ' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'solar hotwater is even better, payback time of less than 4 years.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and after that, free hot water for life....now that is what I like.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'You Texans and your endless sunshine :P' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You would think solar hot water would be big here, but it isnt, mainly because people have no idea it exists.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Riz, are you out there in the west of Texas, where it's sunny even at night?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'plano texas.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'north of Dallas.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ah, ok. I think I might have been there once, but I guess I don't remember it.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'good tv show, but that is about it.....but it is also the 2nd best economic city in the US, :)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Where in relation to you is Enchanted Rock St Pk?' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no idea, only been here a couple years.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ok. Well, check it out some time. Beautiful place.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Thinking of adding 6 circles of pvc tubing around my house to connect to my AC unit air intake.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it would precool the outside air to 55 F before it entered my AC unit....saving some serious money.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In the winter it would preheat the air to 55 F before it entered the heating air intake.....:)' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.infowars.com/romney-operatives-caught-handing-out-fake-ballots-in-nevada-and-maine/' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'amusing' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the british empire was built upon communication, technology, reasonably fair exploitation and trade, a strong navy and army, among other advantages et ceteras, including a decent lipservice to a decent legal system and decent rule of law' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I am sure you are not using The English East India Company as an example of fair exploitation.' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yeah, the Avatar movie was depressing -- those murderous English-speaking aliens attempting to exploit Pandora were extremely greedy callous and wicked' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the republicans in America likely wanted a different ending' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I wanted those callous, murdering aliens to win :(' T3/r6/2012-05-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's A New Hope coming in 2014, I believe. They're doing Avatar 2, set in the ocean.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'French - Greek- news here ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Europeans continue to think the rest of the world should pay for their lifestyle. Not news.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'meh greece needs tax reform like a headwound needs ICU' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the french are more interesting - new blood needs to back the old ideas - I can't see past the hype atm but it was an interesting litmus test ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'an interesting test of democracy ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Interesting would have been electing a radical like Marine LP' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm looking forward a lil more - will bankrupt eu countries leave the eu ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Electing a socialist just continues the agonizingly boring slow tailspin to financial collapse' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well they were popular - democracy in action ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a reversal of austerity policies in greece could slow their slide, but it may cause an exit from the euro too...' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'harder to successfully pull off an argentina while still in the euro, after all' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Greece was always going to be a burden - France was ment to be one of the backbones. ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Greece needs a culture shock imo or it will slide inot obscurity ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but more generally - govs are elected on an anti austerity bill in the eu are are a real hazard ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'btw testing me - been an interesting weekend - I may be an uninformed target - or in the spirit in which it was tabled - a genuine exchange of ideas ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so perhaps you'd expand on your statements - ie argentina ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, argentina had its own currency, while greece, being in the euro, has certain complications tied to that.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'our culture is so funny. a drug that is responsible for numerous deaths each year, makes men beat their children and wives and is extremely debilitating (sp?) is completely legal and advertised like crazy. A drug that does little more than make you giggly, hungry, and sleepy is totally illegal' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'It is a bid odd, isn't it?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'because the last time they tried to criminalize alcohol, that worked well!' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'no' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'it isn't odd, theres a very simple explanation' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, I don't think the point is that alcohol should be illegal.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'fallacious comparison here.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'it's more fun aruing that though.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'how are the comparisons fallacious?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a drunk driver will run a stop sign. a stoned driver will wait for it to turn green. :)' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rhavage just loves Majic ;) T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I have waited for stop signs to turn green before.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'We all have. Or most of us, anyway.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'if you smoke the right stuff they do turn green ;)' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'differing levels of comparative detail. Wifebeating is not a physiological result of getting drunk, but all you are using for the weed side of the equation are physiological consquences.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'that doesn't make either side false, just not a fair comparison' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Your mom is a physiological consequence of bestiality and too much alcohol consumption.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'fine, a drug that makes you giggle madly at things that aren't even funny, hug people and steal their nachos ... :D' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cocaine' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Wife beating (or any other sort of beating) does seem to have a rather well-documented connection with alcohol abuse, though, doesn't it? In fairness, I suppose, you have to ask why someone is abusing alcohol.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'there are very few cases of marijuana causing death, directly or indirectly, where deaths involving alcohol happen every day' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'correlation is not causation.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Alcohol abuse is its own reward' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Actually, it's impossible to OD on pot.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'You'll pass out long before toxic doses are even remotely reached.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Hmmm. It's after 6pm now. I may have to go and put at least a mild bruise on a couple bottles of beer myself.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'agreed, but, it is possible for pot to cause you to die indirectly' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is this pointless arguments 101?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'yeah' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'It's possible for the sun to cause you to die indirectly' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'BAN THE SUN' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'welcome to the debate channel' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Yes, Tiger. ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'is this the debate channel? I didn't recognize it because nothing is 10 lines long.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Your mom's weight in numbers is 10 lines long' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'I have a macro that can change that, but I'll refrain :P' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'That's because Xyliz has been absent for 111 days.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Xyliz is still here, see Zade' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we could trigger Druzil, I suppose' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ahh, really? Didn't know. Thanks.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nothing gets debate rolling like random mentions of religion, corrupt politicians, Canada, oil, or child hookers in Katmandu.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'ooooo child hookers, my fave' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, just as long as baseball remains sacrosanct, I'm good with it. ' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I bet you make them squeal, Jek' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ATAA Jek: 'like the little piggies they are' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'baseball is for girlymen' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rhavage cannot believe what Majic, his favorite person in the entire world, just said. T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic cackles gleefully at Rhavage. T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'do we have to use facts here or will wild made up statements do?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'this is debate. wild made up statements is what it's all about' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'If you use facts, Malkar, you'll be breaking new and uncharted ground. Go for it.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's very important to use nothing but solid facts here, because someone on the internet is WRONG!' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I see someone reads his xkcd.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'his what?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I guess not :D' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'hey, i have a question for the americans here who know something about law. if there is a breach of the constitutional rights in gathering evidence, is it EVER admissible?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what kind of breach?' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'If the police violate your constitutinal rights (illegal search without a warrant) the evidence will not be admissable.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'hans: someone is wrong on the internet -> http://xkcd.com/386/' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'illegal search and seizure is outlined in the Bill of Rights, but there are also exceptions in the arenas of various crimes.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I know. But I don't read such things regularly. I bravely and fearlessly click on random links given out on x-rated channels.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, i just can't ever see 'someone is wrong on the internet' without thinking of that' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'I think it might be admissable if someone else does something illegal to get information and the police do nothing wrong.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'okay, thanks. I was curious if it was like Canada or not.' T3/r6/2012-05-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'l' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Denmark should have sold Greenland to the US in 1946, the island costs the danes almost $2 billion a year.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the US had a $56 billion budget surplus for April 2012, the first one since obama took office.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Probably was just a paper surplus, juggled the numbers and pushed stuff around.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krimp: 'how can you have surplus when you're in the hole' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'means you're at least climbing out of the hole' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but as Oath said, they play so many games I'm pretty skeptical of such announcements' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in April 2011, the budget deficit was $40 billion.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"CBO cited some special factors at play in April, partly because of shifts in the timing of payments that would ordinarily occur in March or May but instead came in April."' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"As well, refunds to taxpayers who overpaid their 2011 taxes were about $14 billion lower this year than last year because some that ordinarily would have been recorded in April were made in prior months."' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Instead of mandatory defense cuts, House Republicans advanced a bill through the Budget Committee that would instead trim from food assistance, Medicaid and other benefits programs.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what, don't you favour war, starvation, and disease?!' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth. T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And this is why you should be using the nice plastic bags that grocery stores give you. Oregon public health officials have traced a nasty outbreak of norovirus infections in a group of soccer players to an unlikely source: a reusable grocery bag' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or don't share bags' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You should clean stuff you use over and over. Even kids know that.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'i heard if you share a bag you should use a condom.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or toothbrushes. Or personal equipment.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'billions and billions of years of natgas !' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i so hope greece's anti-austerity lot get in' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'Are you Greek Tigernuts?' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'british' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bankruptcy is good for the economy.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though looking for somewhere to run to' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'I sincerly hope the people who best represent the wishes of the Greek people get in.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I wouldn't mind if the anti-austerity crowd got in and bankrupted Greece. Got my 401k happily sitting in bonds waiting for the world to burn atm.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm penniless in an overcrowded country with no weapons' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think the term "screwed" comes to mind' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I bet zee Garmens wouldn't mind that either.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, look how bankruptcy helped gm and chrysler.....getting rid of all that greek debt would help them immensely, then they could focus on rebuilding their economy intead of paying debt for the next 20 years with a dead economy.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Greece cannot go bankrupt while it is in the eurozone, it has to leave. And then bankruptcy isn't necessary, hyperinflation can solve the problem.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If greece defaults on too many loans, the entire eurozone will go into high inflation. If the rest of the zone doesn't want that, they'll have to pay the loans.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bugger that' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Just like a marriage, it's one economy.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they can default while in the eurozone. Whether they'll still be in the eurozone the day after the germans hear of it... different matter.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody can afford it, they'll all just default' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'm sooooo happy Sweden decided to stay out of the euro :D' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'smart move' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or smart non-move' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'And the UK will be thanking George Soros for keeping them from hitting the marks they needed to join the euro.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It was a referendum, sometimes a lot of stupid people can make smart decisions. Or get lucky.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the euro looked like a good idea on paper for vaious reasons, but on hindsight, should have listened to the eggheads yammering on about fiscal unions or the lack thereof...' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'money is so old invention.. and they still manage to screw it up. ' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, fiat money is relatively recent... only a few hundred years ago' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and didn't last long that time too' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'modern fiat money only started less than a hundred years ago, and works only because of other financial innovations' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, china invented paper, then paper money. Then fiat money. Then invented hyperinflation.' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'So, NC bans gay marriage today, becoming the 31st state to approve discrimination. Anyone else kinda pissed?' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: '3 more states and they can make it a constitutional amendment :>' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: '?' T3/r6/2012-05-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it takes the votes of 34 states to amend the constitution. So if all those states that banned gay marriages decide to force the other 16 to do the same, they can get an amendment passed.' T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'mel gibson?' T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'sooooooooo.. Any topics?' T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'Adobe Flash technology was provided by aliens to divert us from our progress in open source software. Discuss.' T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'team 1 position: a simplistic explanation endorsed by those raised from birth to believe that everyone shares the concept of the golden rule' T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'team 2 position: of course, the same ones who run McDonalds' T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos peers intently at YnysMon. T3/r6/2012-05-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'h 10' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'The Who - Love Reign O'er Me. Greatest rock song ever.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'The Who is not Led Zeppelin, so that can't possibly be true.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that argument is perfectly acceptable to me' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia shakes Hanslanda's hand. T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'here is where I stand:' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'The Who has done some of the greatest rock songs of all time.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'But Led Zeppelin is the greatest rock band of all time.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's per song vs. the entire catalog' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'Led Zeppelin, you can build your house on.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but The Who has truly reached the heights of it' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's tricky' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'The greatest rock band of all time is Zeppelin, though.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, it's simple. Led Zeppelin built this city. They built this city on Rock 'n Roll. (only the greatest gets to take credit for someone else's stuff)' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'man, I can't hear that song though without feeling that thing, where you just know it won't ever be equaled' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'Zeppelin is the alpha and omega of rock and roll, truly.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they took the blues and made it rock, and then they took rock and made it something else' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and everyone wishes they had done it, and Wolfmother is pathetically transparent about it :)' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'by the way, I just put on Dazed and Confused (Disc 1 Live BBC sessions), that is the cut' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"live sessions" usually are crap compared to professiooal sessions' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'professional' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, watched a thing about fbi gun running into mexico' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LordSation: 'wrong' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: '"But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?" Mark Twain' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) LordSation: 'aleister crowley?' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just remember, trick the bridesmaid' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but don't drink his bottled judgement' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, fbi complicit in supplying mexican drugs cartels with firearms' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jolly sporting of them' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morphonius: 'is this channel for like mass debate?' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'yes' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Morphonius: 'kool huhuhu' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'Mass graves for tea partiers.' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'guess there's no debate on that one' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'why waste the soil? burn them :>' T3/r6/2012-05-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'Fire? Costs carbon credits! Drown em!' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'BABY RAPE...your thoughts? lets debate it...' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'baby rape is bad, k?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'mmm kay' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'I'ma take it for a face coming from a guy named Tigernuts you just have to' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'fact ....doh' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no idea what you're running on about' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dirkdiggler slaps Tigernuts in the face with a fish. T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'that was delayed from my coffee break *grin' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'north carolina' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fema region 3, no?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'not sure' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'good weed though' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'if you dont go lookin through the hood lol' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't get any in the camps' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lucky if they don't shoot you for it' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'army?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'army/tsa' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'werd' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything ?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'wut?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wuts ur beef ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'hm. i watched lately mission impossible and get the gringo.. and the weird danny trejo movie. why the old farts manage to do entertaining movies and the young farts cant?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is formula - same with segal ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'the movie industry is suffering from low income due to movie piracy? :D' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '200 million from 1 movie suggests otherwise' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'piracy ruins the movies' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It sure ruined POTC - was gonna be a cool movie before those pirates ruined it.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hence idol formula - lets sign the talent b4 it can talk back' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe it's that gen-Y has the attention span of a goldfish, then?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what ? soz - what ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'some bugger stole my smokes !' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'brb' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'piracy improves some movies' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"holy astericks! Batman," say Robin' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'get the gringo wasn't a formula that much. because they cut the boy open and THEN he was saved. that was new.. imported from hospital-shows' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'and they actually tortured a woman. in hero-action movie this is unseen..' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stupid bugger was sleeping with em :)' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'frosty breakfast tomorrow tho .. lol ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so where where we ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'still on the vacuum that is warner etc and talent ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hwuaijijal, you saying that gay movies express a misogyny' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'perhaps the damage vidoe musical sequences are doing to the natives here ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'hm. i rather think the new freaky teenage movies try to catch all the stuff from current world mayhem.. the old people just create their own world in a movie.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'our atr is recycled - says alot about our culture' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'what gay movie?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bot likely, since "teenage movies" are written by scriptwriters not teenagers' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stienbeck ref in a cartoon etc ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the elderly do not bother watching the crap teenage movies' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the elderly dislike obvious nonesense and poorly written hack' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we need to boycott the whole hollywood environ. imo it has gone from product placement to life placement ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'the elderly dislike it because they're not the target market' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the elderly are no longer relavent as at best they are revenue neutral' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'lets get the drums out. i'll arrive hollywood in august, hitchiking. hope the party isn't over by then.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'not how you say "teenage", that should be an indication of who the film is targetting. it's like making tampons for men' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to boycott the "hollywood environ" requires many willing to cancel tvcable and tvsatellite' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'bollywood will arrive before it does and perhaps the yanks will finally get that they are the last of a dying culture' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'imo this all just rambling about the fact that Hollywood isn't producing films that cater to your desires' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'insightful - but fiction for many years has been "tested" and is only worked on if it meets a market ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'when i was young there were many so so cool movies. and those satisfied the teenagers very well.. steve jobs has ruined the movies' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'remind you on any scifi series ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'isn't Steve Jobs dead?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think this thread is ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'ruined' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'and didn't he "revolutionize" the film industry with 'Toy story'?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok nice save ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'continue ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Ha. As if Jobs had any creative input on Toy Story.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sepulchure looks at Jhav and goes "Heh." T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'This debate is boring. What about Psuedo-Science?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'Pseudo-science is evil : Social Darwinism' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Jbot we were trying to stimulate an exchange of ideas - low bar and limited input- I'll take that ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sepulchure laughs out loud at Tzadkiel. T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'frag it - the rest are settling down afte the "great smoke search" ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you have no idea how good you have it - really ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'there is no greater pain of seeing your friends grinning faces when they announce that they had smoked all your cigarettes while you were sleeping.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'I don't know if I'd call that a frien d:)' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'well, they give you the right to call them f.. retards. it balances..' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pseudo-science is seen in movies and tvfiction' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'CSI: crap-science investigation' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'house is not pseudoscience. i asked from a Doctor. he told that yes, they don't use any bs but the way they do things is ridicilous. noone spends that much money on a patient.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The tests and stuff, maybe. Depends on your insurance. The time? Having 4 doctors just to yourself? They'd be watching over about 20 patients, most likely.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'my doctor told me that they are lunatics. using massive amount of extremely expencive procedures on a hunch.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Yeah, the way they do some of them is pretty outlandish. But when Promise goes into the hospital, it'd be pretty expensive if she didn't have nice insurance.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Last time they had to diagnose and then track down the cause of her hypokalemia... But even then it was more like a test a day for a week or so, rather than running her from one painful and expensive procedure to another.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'But really it's just the idea that even one American doctor would dedicate 24 hours a day to a patient, let alone a whole team. You deal with interns and residents, and see the doctor once a day if you're lucky.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'you talk as you know about that stuff, Oath. are you a doctor or something?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'What gave you the idea that what you see on tv has anything to do with reality?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I've spent way more time than I'd like to in hospitals, with Promise.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'She has physical health problems that had her on disability since she was a child. Probably 3x a year, she's trying to die and we're spending a week in there.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Whenever you see something in a tv show in an area you have any knowledge about, you will realize it's all fake and stupid and unrealistic.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But as long as they have hot chicks, I'll keep watching.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I've seen the way the team process works, and I've seen the way the outpatient process works. They're so overworked, and understaffed, that it's almost impossible to get more than a few minutes of one on one time.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I once watched an episode of Numbers where they used 'UML' to solve some pretty freaky shit' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'hm. the diseases are real in house. thats good to know too:) and they find the most beautiful prostitutes.. thats good. unreal but good. ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I can ignore Beysian algorithms, and such, because I only have a minor knowledge of them - but to use 'UML' the way they did had me laughing my arse off.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'My fav thing to hate is when they "track" an "ip address" in CSI' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'and who was the genius that invented the "computer sounds"?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The worst has to be the most commonly mocked... "zoom in" ... "enhance". Doesn't matter that it was a compressed feed from an atm camera with 40 ppi. They can get a hi-res image out of it.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'reminds me blade runner:)' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'UML is a gibberish acronym to those not versed in geekspeak' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I'm not sure what it is. Basically just a diagram?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Promise" was last on: Sat May 5 21:18:26 2012 ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'She plays EQ1 mostly. She gets annoyed trying to figure out the syntax.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'This game is close enough to Gemstone 3 that she tries to fall into the old habits.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I keep hoping she'll play this with me, she keeps hoping to entice me back to EQ1 by double-boxing my bard with her druid.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"House" is unbelievable because of the "extreme" reactions to the "allergies/parasites/disease/poisons"' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'It always has to be the worst possible situation, or it wouldn't be good tv.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The idea that he'd still be on vicoden after so many years is also pretty ridiculous. Or that vicoden could cause hallucinations or any of the other things he's experienced for it. Or that they'd put him on Suboxone to deal with vicoden withdrawal.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"House" went "criminal" at the end of the season prior to the final season. "The Mentalist" went "criminal" at the end of this current season -- thre seems to be a plagiarism or a copying of a "protagonist goes criminal" trend as a tvseries nears the end' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'they kill wilson. finally!' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'he didn't die' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Does he have cancer? I quit watching after the thing with Kutner.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'he does' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'but last episode ended with promicing sad face on dr.house.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the last episode ended with a overlong==grim --> "bad news" face by House ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "Fringe" tvseries may be coming to an end' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Fringe" seems to depict what may happen if the republicans shape the world' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with Dr Bishop, Peter, Olivia, etcetera, playing the democrats' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the evil of Dr Bell ruined the reputation of Leonard Nimoy -- indirectly turning Spock into an evil character ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'by the process of holistic logic' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"by the fruit, an evil tree is known" ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I have a very important question, also based on my theory. But it's long.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'can I text it? Because everyone I asked can't seem to answer me on this. But let me finish before you reply or state something. I will say "done" then say something or nothing. I must finish explaining it before it would make sense' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: '....Is idiocy/moron not associated with stupidity and stupidity associated with subnormal intelligence and subnormal intelligence associated with retardation?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Quit talking like that about your mom. She can't help it.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Yes, in the same way that rain is associated with crops is associated with wheat is associated with bread is associated with toast is associaed with butter is associated with fat, so rain makes you fat.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: '.. If so .. The significance of these chains contradicts directly against the spirit/mind (not brain) as each being is enhanced with intelligence far beyond some's grasp of understand? If so, the existence of the spirit renders it all none existent as it goes against all laws of life and spirit.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'although education is required or the physical brain is lost to the spirit mind then again all posses a deep subsconcious that are dormant or hard to find. My point is, is the word "stupid" really capable of such? I believe it does not exist as it contradicts against so much. .. The same with "forever" <~ mindless, ignorant word. "I love you forever" I hate that f?ckin' phrase. Then again, hate is also over rated.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'done.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'What do you guys think?' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'Starling ...dude ..... Tsek you street rat. You little ...b--tch.8o if your mom is .....nevermind.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'anyway... Thanks for reading I guess. Enjoy people.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'And I think world starvation is bad!!!!!!! What do you think, fellow debaters???' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'pass the potatoes and the gravy, if you could please' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'Yoda: Shut up must you, Kezora.' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'you insolent little!' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'yoda!' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Kezora wants food. Stat. Everybody get cooking. T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't think it's a bad thing. Have you ever noticed how the world's population number is only going up? Nobody in recorded memory ever came out and said something like "OMG, what the fuck is wrong with you prudes? Start boning as many other people you can see or we're all gonna die!"' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well boning kind of sells itself, is the thing' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You hear Kezora say something about a spoon while blowing up an elevator. T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's not really like were scared of not having enough people' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'boggle' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'die ike that? Taking a spoon to eat in an elevator and it blowing up? ' T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You hear Kezora say something about a spoon while blowing up an elevator. T3/r6/2012-05-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'kidding!' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything happening ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dru ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'beep' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Druzil went into hibernation on Sun May 13 15:44:53 2012 -- the replacement was not a genuine Druzil ' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'errata Druzil went into hibernation on Tue Apr 10 11:00:11 2012 -- the replacement was not a genuine Druzil ' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sunday today, is somebody going to deliver a Sunday sermon' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, be nice to people and look after yourself, your family and friends' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and smoke lots of pot' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'amen' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope, do not burn the food, do not smoke pot' T3/r6/2012-05-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about don't burn the food, smoke pot if you want to, and be nice to people and look after yourself, your family, and your friends?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'killing babies ...good or bad?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'babie what ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'humans' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'but little ones' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'that poop and pee and cry' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'so not huge human babies' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dirkdiggler nods at the cheese seller. T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'that fight godzilla' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dirkdiggler falls to the ground and rolls around, laughing hysterically. T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'so is the human baby in question a threat to china's economy, or is it an atheist ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'is it a carrier of yellow fever ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'does it sell drugs or vote liberal ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'is it tasty with barbecue sause ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'i imagine the parents would think it's bad, but everyone else on this exponentially increasingly overpopulated planet wouldnt welcome it' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'would*' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'on the other hand if we just kill babies in poor countries, that leaves us free to breed more freely' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'we can't kill the poor babies or who would make my shoes?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'the white trash in the south of america who complain about mexians taking thier jobs' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: 'you know, the jobs they dont want' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: '"day dook errr jaaabs!' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: '(they took our jobs)' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cheesevendor: '(orly)' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'anybody else think it's odd that used hypodermic needles are being found in quebec clothing store's clothes starting on the day when they advertise a new hiv preventative medication?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/05/14/sherbrooke-syringe-police-chief.html ' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2012/05/10/hiv-aids-drug-fda.html it was on just about every news site around' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's got it's uses, just seems odd that they wouldn't be reporting on dirty needles in clothing more often instead of just around this time' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/13/pol-rcmp-watchdog-report-g8-g20-toronto-2010.html' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing that's pretty great too' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in this other one, a cell-phone service provider, or other gps device - records paths of all customer's and offers the surveillance to not only the government and police, but anybody who has money' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and is in on their setup' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Examples of places where a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy are person's residence or hotel room[1] and public places which have been specifically provided by businesses or the public sector to ensure privacy, such as public restrooms, private portions of jailhouses,[2] or a phone booth.[' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and if that article's are correct, then everybody with a cell phone (turned on only?) or other gps-enabled device (like a vehicle or digital camera) should reasonably expect to having their privacy invaded at all of those locations and more' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'which is possibly against the 4th amendment of the us constitution' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-17119768 The illegal use of Global Positioning System (GPS) jammers in the UK has been revealed in a groundbreaking study. ' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so the government's aware of breaking it's own laws, and is proactively developing immunity to resisting it's violations' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illegal use?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they're doing that in america' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm not sure what britain's privacy laws are' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, anything with a gps tracker on it is monitored by computer system's who's access is sold to police and government and private interests' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that seems to go against people's reasonable expectation of privacy' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have privacy laws, we're owned by the new world order' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the people in power will protect their position above everybody else with any means neccessary' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if that means turning everybody into the matrix movie incarnate, unable to escape virtual reality for the real thing, then they'll do that' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they put surveillance devices on playstation 3 game consoles, to 'enhanced the playing experience'' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, be worried about that :-)' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'most likely all remotely accessible through one or another communication network, which can be sold to whoever wants to spy on you' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a reason i don't have a webcam or mic' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bah, it's more fun to have the webcam and just walk around nekkid all the time :-)' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, most of the microchips on the computers and peripherals aren't made in america or canada or anywhere else called civilized, and they don't seem to get much proactive scrutiny at the border - so all of those type of things could be installed onto other microchips or hidden within the circuitry of the system' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are not hidden' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're in plain view' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go buy a laptop without a built in mic or cam' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fridges and freezers that connect to the internet' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smart tvs that connect to the net' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'rofl' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, it's pretty ballistic' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all your preferences are recorded and sold' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'smart tvs that connect to the internet without an isp account ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who doesn't have an isp account?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'yo momma!' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they don't, they won't have a smart tv, duh' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'is a smart tv somethin like a smartphone? Cuz I love my SDA' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a TV that lets you use things like netflix streaming without a computer' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and think of what happens if cell phones replace credit cards and money' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'netflix, bbol, roku, etc' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'these people who sell 4th amendment violations to the police and government and whoever else has money can then what, have all the free money they want?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, there are already restrictions being placed on the use of cash in some countries because they want to track exactly what you do' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cell-phone hacking is up by a large factor since last year' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the 4th ammendment isn't what it used to be, a direct quote from the director of the CIA' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'the cespool will replace sex and the economy will collapse' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'http://preview.tinyurl.com/cwl3acs' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the cia probably isn't much of a patriot if it violates the constitution of it's nation' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a patriot, cia is run by the new world order' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who do you think starts all these wars for you? you really think they're in your interest?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i never understood the full scope and considerations of any war in my time alive, so i can't say with any authority the absolute value of the conflict' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the CIA engineered the Bay Of Pigs which dragged the US into the VietNam war' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the CIA and MI6 cooked up the fake intelligence that prompted the attack on Iraq' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the tracking isn't nationalized, it's multinational corporation controlled, sold to whoever can afford it' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the CIA were involved in setting up, funding, and training Al-Quaida in the 1970s and 1980s to combat the USSR in Afghanistan' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'somebody from north korea with a friend in china who's part owner of your favourite company on wall street could monitor you if they want' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the CIA were involved in setting up the Oklahoma and 9/11 bombings in order to push through authoritarian centralised government powers in the name of combatting terrorism' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they were complicit in the cover-up behind the JFK assassination' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything I have said is on record' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and latimes claiming that soldier suicides increased by 80% since 2010' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they were fighting a good fight with a understanding of why it's right, would they be so suicidal?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not surprising with all the cocktails of drugs they were giving them, and all the shit they keep pulling on them' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'on nihl.gov i read about civilians agreeing to take part in government experiment using a nerve-suppressing agent which is supposed to train people to be ovlivious to pain and negative influence, part of the study was torturing the significant other of each subject' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'imagine that kind of government experiment, who are they planning on using it on?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'interrogation studies using civilians' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's a 2010? movie called the killing room, it's about the mk-ultra experiments never having stopped, sick show' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you hear about the "re-education camps" they're setting up in the US to imprison it's own population in the event of a serious incident?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'nope, but they did similar things from stalin's russia to nazi germany and throughout history, so it's not unfathomable that it's possibly in the making' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'one of those camps is in my backyard, the feds are leasing it from me.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what they're baded on' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and this foster kennedy guy, if he really did order the extermination of anybody considered mentally retarded by a judge' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in 1942' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a military document was leaked and it details using psy-ops and intimidation on political activists' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That was an x-file document.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's been verified by the military' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'camp dietrick (or however it's spelled)' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they tested biological warfare on us citizens' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in maryland' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Camp Rizgoth, in Texas.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are dozens of such camps being set up around the US, mostly in old WW2 and other decomissioned military bases' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Detrick' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is going to be kinda hard since the old bases are usually sold to developers.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the paint they gave people painting cold-war buttons in tanks was radioactive, lots of people died from exposure from cancer and stuff - no compensation' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'agent orange used in vietnam possibly no compensation too - they were military draftees so i guess that sets monsanto above the rest' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now Monsanto are killing off the bees, bats, and anything else you can think of' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'federal agents in chicago in this winter hill gang saying, were their victims familites given compensation for the government's treatment of their family members?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'heard about that one on cities of the underworld or underworld histories, during his undercover informant job he killed alot of people' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, their chemicals are sprayed on just about every crop around me' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if atheists believed there's no god but evolution theory was real, replacing fear of god with fear of human stupidity - they would have resisted alot of the synthetic replacements and man-made alterations to life as it evolved on earth to be as minimalistically intrusive as possible' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so i don't got much faith in atheists, unless they're all suicidal' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the issue is that they think that they are smarter than evolution...they can fix the flaws with engineering' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if the electricity goes out in some place like new york, what's the odds of survival after a week or so?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '100% odds' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's no evacuation center around for people in the event of a man-made catastrophe' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'surviving naturally is being erased more and more every day' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no power isn't a catastrophe' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no need to evacuate just because there's no electricity' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can create your own power too' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's getting easier' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You nod. T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'theists are more homicidal than atheists' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd highly reccommend people look into it. Not necessarily -buy- it, but understand the technology' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that are "atheists", because of gender preference conflicting with religion, are not genuine atheists -- their agenda is "gender preference"' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and things like vehicles, before they were all computerized any person who understood the basics of how engines and vehicle components interoperated could fix just about any mechanical machine around' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are many forms of atheism' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but now, a microchip separates your brakes from the brake drum, a microchip separates your accelerator from the carburator or whatever, your steering columb from the axel or wheels etc' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and it's all remotely accessible and possibly controllable' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, there is one form of atheism' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'to get these things fixed you take them to a place that doesn't understand teh scope of the vehicle, but only the parts to replace from a manual, which come prefabricated in their electronic mystery' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and whoever owns those microchips owns a significant portion of society' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'disagreeing with a religion's viewpoint on something (like gender) doesn't transform you into an atheist' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'their safety is in his hands, and they can't even confirm it' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'whoever owns the goats will rule the world.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the political leaders of communism used "atheism" as a ruse to exploit the soviet populace -- "atheism" was merely another "religion" to deceive the peasants' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'is ford automobiles selection of microsoft as their computer consel system programmer, a naturally secure choice, given the track record of microsoft and security vulnerabilities?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'atheism is merely another religion, correct' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'vehicles can be dangerous devices, that's a little too much trust for me' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Korridel: 'No, Abelinc.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes korridel :-)' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Korridel: 'I'd agrue that point, but it's trivial to any sort of atheistic debate.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'd call atheism another aspect of faith, but not a religion. Unless it's organized and enjoys its own tenets.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it does' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'And liturgy, for that matter.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the republicans leaders of the Usa use the "christian religion" as another ruse to deceive the republican voters into supporting republican selfishness greed and corruption -- some of them likely "know" that christiaity and other religions are a fraud' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the republican leaders aren't christian, they're satinists' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Are you saying that you know that Christianity is a fraud, Zade? If so, how?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'religion != organized religion...' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they don't believe in god, what validation does swearing to tell the truth on the bible have for them?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's actually written in the gospel not to swear at all' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the bible was mostly written since the 17th century, i wouldn't suggest taking any of it literally' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if somebody is an atheist because they prefer to support a minority gender preference, that is a religion ' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you cannot be an atheist because you prefer to support a gender preference' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you believe that someone can do so, then you have no clue what atheism is...' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when the soviet communists said "atheism! or be butchered", that was religion, a murderous fraudulent religion ' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'somehow they persuade university students to take part in pill-form lyposuction chemical testing, which removes weight, up to 78% of which is body fat (the other 22% not being mentioned on the article), not tested on animals is valid but not tested on university student's isn't' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'do they offer cash incentive, maybe mark's on their class?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're dumb for doing it regardless, i just wonder if there's some form of entrapment being used' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Abelinc is obfuscating as though clueless as to what was actually said (in regard to various types of "atheism")' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cause that's dangerous stuff - in the 1960's they experimented on skin lotion acne cream, which gave the participants liver disease' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'is the government's law abiding watchdog really watching for his flock?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"atheism" in quotes includes ersatz, false, fair-weather, and "sexual in the mood" "feels good" atheisms' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nothing obfuscated at all...preferring to support gender preferences is one behavioral or moral choice, it does not change your core belief in the existence (or lack thereof) of a higher power...not choosing to follow southern baptist, or any other particular non-atheist organized religion is not the same as not believing in the existence' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, crunchy cheetos.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in 1947-1963 they prescribed thalidomide to pregnant females in canada, knowing in 1951 that it resulted in limbless infants, from front page news in britain' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'non-practicing/fair weather does not change who you are, and cannot turn you into an atheist' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'give em cheetos, and be happy.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'even agnosticism is not atheism' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some are mormons because of sexual preferences ("feels good to screw lots of females")' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm, boobies' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'too bad mormonism hasn't had that belief in a hundred years' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nice try though' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cheetos, boobies and donkeys....what more do you need ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more boobies' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mormonism mutated to other polygamous religions' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mormonism was like a cancer that mutated and spread to other community-religions' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, cuz mormonism invented multiple sex partners' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so, does anybody expect military draft to start sometime soon? maybe they escalate the 'population control' war in the middle-east and get some other participating populations to contribute their civilian's to the cull' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's the sole source of that belief system, and it polluted all others' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Who are the draftees going to fight ?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mormonism spread the anceint middle-east practice of polygamy' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'll collapse the economy and you'll get civil war instead' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'chemosh, there will never be a US military draft...other countries have never stopped draft' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'plenty of countries have mandatory service' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'hopefully it doesn't happen but the way the world is it seems likely' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'draftees are the last people you want in a well trained military, unless you need cannon fodder like in vietnam.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'do you consider forced extended tours as substantially different from a draft?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Newt Gingrich believes in a form of religious polygamy -- change religion and marry a new spouse' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in canada the harper government is doing everything contradictory to canadian sovereignty and civil rights that it possibly can, according to some people' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Which is why it wont happen again.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the people wont allow it.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'enlisting all the young men and women to serve israel's purposes isn't too far fetched from them' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a movement starting to take back local governance' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly among Ron Paul supporters' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'beakerboy: yes, there is a big difference between forced extension and draft' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for forced extension, you've already given your commitment (which allowed for the extensions), and you've already "benefitted" from your service' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the military has invested in you' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there was a report that was recently declassified that said if asked to fight against fellow americans, 70+ % of the military personnel said they wouldnt do it.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"forced extension" seems "breach of contract", "extortion", "exploitation", "theft" ' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"forced extension" seems "breach of contract", "extortion", "exploitation", "theft", "slavery"' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only takes 30% to make a horrid civil war' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it'd only be breach of contract if the contract didn't have provisions for it' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's a 100% volunteer military...everyone in it chose to join up' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'except it's marketed to the poor' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well sure, where else are they gonna go?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir shrugs helplessly. T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'compulsory military service here' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'for the newer members, they definitely went in knowing about the conflicts we're involved in...for the older members, they'd enjoyed years of breezy service' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'republicans, (like nazis), believe(d) that they may pass laws justifying atrocities thievery and exploitation ' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nothing wrong with giving $30,000 bonuses and paid college educations for military service.....should increase the pay to the non officer soldiers.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this military college in new york or somewhere, usmc?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'produces CEO's of rich companies and politicians aplenty' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they're possibly all serving the military by ruling the civilian sector' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'US Military Academy, Chemosh. At West Point, on the Hudson River in NY State.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the military academies are good schools...' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's what benedict arnold gave to the brits }:>' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i imagine they can be, but forced extension probably comes mandatory for alot of it's members' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Well, what he tried to give the Brits.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'only during conflict ("time of need")' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'which is basically every day to the government' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Very beautiful place, West Point.' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'every day for the past decade...didn't really exist before that' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'school administration resorting to beurocratic due process of law regarding people's children being exposed to possibly dangerous displays of public nudity by a adult male on the premises http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/story/2012/05/14/nb-shediac-school-exposure.html , not informing the parents that a person is walking around the classroom windows flashing his genitalia and that their children might be in danger' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that seems pretty negligent to me' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'he didn't stick his penis in anyone's eye, did he?' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not according to the article, but if he goes that far one step further might not be unfathomable' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well then there couldn't have been THAT much danger' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they don't inform the parents that a sexual predator is walking among their children at the government-school' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'usually they keep an eye on that sort of thing' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'someone screwed up, obviously' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'teh police act like it's classified to inform that parents about the problem, which the school relies on them to do claiming no responsibility' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, it reached the news is probably the only screw up' T3/r6/2012-05-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but usually that's not unintelligently designed' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'whats shaking ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Iran puzzles me, they have the 2nd largest proven supplies of natgas, and the 3rd largest known reserves of uranium....they could export uranium to france and russia, and use natgas power generation instead of nuclear reactors.....so the only reason they are punishing themselves so badly is to build a nuclear bomb.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there are good reasons why countries view them with suspicion...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it may be arguable that they find it would be more economic in the long run to use nuclear power and sell the gas.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps in 100+ years, they have enough natgas right now to last at least that long with double the consumption as now.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And that doesnt include any new supplies of natgas that is found in Iran.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's only so much gas you can extract per year though...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they produce more natgas than they can use, which is why exports are up 10% from last year to certain countries that are still doing business with them.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shortbus Stutz: 'the average human farts out about 8 cups of gas a day.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the more they use, the less they have for export, I suppose' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They also have the 2nd largest known oil reserves :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only so much oil you can pump a year...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Sure, whatever, opec has light production controls on exports, and iran has been one of the countries that has wanted to reduce exports to raise the price, then they use can more of the oil and gas at home.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and nuclear might be cheaper with a cheap workforce and a "healthy" disregard for the safety of their serfs' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'with more investment, they could easily be producing 2x as much as they are doing now if not for the sanctions.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they obviously want to build a bomb, there is no other logical reason for it, since they have so much cheap gas for power generations.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's a good chance of that, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily obvious' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I seriously doubt they care about global warming :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'take the germans... if you assumed they were rational, there must be no reason for their actions other than that they want the euro to fail! So say some people, anyway.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'always the chance that they're being dicks because of internal political considerations' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh, and iran just found another 26 trillion cubic feet of new natgas in an previously known gas field.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yay, problem solved.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and speaking of global warming... I wonder how many countries are secretly building up expertise in sustainable artificial habitats and the like...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'none of them' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'now would be a great time to study how to build large underground habitats in case we need them to... well... not die.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bah, just build undersea cities.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'underground's cheaper than undersea, I'd bet' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You have completely missed the problem with global warming' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and cheaper than sealing off above-ground cities' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That would solve no problem, what so ever' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you can control the internal climate, it would' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I could care less....just terraform mars, and populate it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'then build a base on the moon and populate that too' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and space stations...can easily put millions in space.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I doubt we can even get to mars before the climate starts to kill us off, let alone terraform it' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's something to do for after we survive this thing' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the universe is a huge place, with lots of potential....we need to take advantage of it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The world will not become inhabitable by global warming, so hiding in artificial environments isn't necessary, just stupid' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'no. we just need to chill a bit' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still, no use thinking about fixing your bike when you're bleeding to death in the middle of a river after crashing...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'global warming is a myth....the avg global temp could be 8 F higher, and very little would change....and it would take hundreds of years to do that.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <3 DJ Matty: 'People who say global warming is a myth perpetuate the idea that humans have had no impact on the environment. Which is just stupid.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'learn the polarbear language and tell them that, rizgoth' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in the worst case scenarios, we could have well over 10C in 100y...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'to hell with the polar bears, let em learn how to live on the land.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is why we have zoos.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'point taken:)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <3 DJ Matty: 'Man, every time I see someone who has been sucked into the conservative media...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'conservative my ass, I am more liberal than most liberals, I am just not someone who feels that global climate change is a problem.....it is called evolution for a reason.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Global warming must be a myth because the american lifestyle is not negotiable. True story.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if we can't evolve to a possibly warmer planet than we deserve to die off.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pretty simple.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there'd be people who'll survive even if the temperature goes up by over 10C assuming nothing else happens, but I'll bet there'd be wars.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the planet has been going through warm and cold spells for billions of years, we are not going to control it or stop it....so get used to it, make the best of it, and take care of your family.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and if possible...buy a damn natgas car.....I love mine :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the coming one is self-inflicted though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'that's irrelevant, Rizgoth, since humans haven't been around for billions of years' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and if possible, buy some solar panels for your house...they do make a diference in your power bill.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we can't stop it in the sense that a serial killer can't stop killing...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's another weird thing about the US... so many people rent that decisions like that aren't even up to the residents' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think home ownership is what, 60% or something?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have 5000 watts of solar panels on my roof, and 4 solar hot water panels.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'did you get government subsidy for installing it?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure did.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'renting results in a lot of unfortunate perverse incentives' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the feds knocked off 40% of the cost, and the power company knocked another 10% off the cost with a rebate.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'is it paying for itself over time?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the renter pays for electricity, the owner has little incentive to reduce the bill by using solar panels and stuff like that' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, just installed it 3 years ago...it should pay for itself in about 7 more years.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the owner pays, the renter has no incentive to conserve' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'at current power rates' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'power rates have been increasing about 6% a year here, so it might pay for itself in 5-6 years instead.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'about 95% of my hotwater comes from the sun' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the other %5 is my natgas backup.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lots of people can't afford that though, on top of the debt of buying a house in the first place' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is why you roll the solar system into the mortgage.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Like I did.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the housing situation in the US is a little unfortunate...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am going to make my AC system about 30% more efficient this summer with my new geothermal system I am installing' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given the current economic conditions, the government could easily manufacture housing centres at low cost and maybe even turn a profit once the market picks up' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i heard about this greenhouse heating somebody used, using black jugs filled with water - supposedly they trapped heat pretty good' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'provided it's better quality than some of the crap around' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Going to install loops of pipe around my house underground about 5 feet that will be connected to the air intake of my HVAC system.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'solar heated water for your pool and showers is the way to go.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a warm pool in the winter, and a cool one in the summer.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wish I had a pool of my own...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home it would be next to impossible' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.wsetech.com/ some of the stuff these guys sell is pretty good' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'someday I plan on adding a rain catchment system for water, so that I can reduce my city water use....which has been increasing every year.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as the rain water doesn't get too polluted...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'rain water is almost pure, it is when it hits your roof that it gets a little dirty :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is why the first few gallons is dumped.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'depends on how far the nearest industrial centre is, typically' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I know a guy who has a rain catchment system down in houston....next to refineries, and his rainfall is crystal clear.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'crystal clear doesn't mean that there's nothing bad in it...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you want to keep drinking city water, go for it, I will take rainfall anyday of the year.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'either way I'd put it through a filter first' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well duh, he has triple filters :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he doesnt drink it straight.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I filter my tap water too...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he also have a UV system to clean it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who knows what's in all those old pipes in this building...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he built his catchment system out of 20 200 gallon hot water heater tanks. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home they pump some of the treated water from sewage treatment back into the water supply.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there were a number of jokes about drinking pee' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'when it leaves the treatment plant is pretty clean, and then the natural processes do the rest.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it'd be handy if they could have separate lines for drinking water and general usage water - even if general usage water is clean' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'costly though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'where available' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Shortbus Stutz: 'urine is sterile.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'recycling of water will become even more important in the near future.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i agree, there's alot of things messing water systems up though, like industrialization and cattle manure, also chemical's from agriculture' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'use water 2-3x before it is released back into nature.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and in the ocean that turns into clouds and stuff, whatever toxins are in that' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and gold mines are supposedly pretty killer, also waste disposal of hazardous materials ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'many farms are adding methane digesters to produce natgas from the manure, and supplying electricity to nearby homes.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lots of places in the world don't have the resources to cut down on toxic waste' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i heard about methane digesters, separating fertilizer and fuel ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they were reseraching that in university of florida - the problem is convincing farmers that it's a worthwhile expense' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is estimated that if all the manure produced in the US was put into methane digesters, it would produce about 10% of the countries natgas needs.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'animal manure, not human manure.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and disposing of chemicals too - lots of farmers see taking all of the leftovers in for disposal as a waste of time, including jugs etc' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'an incentive for them to not be indebted for assisting the environment would be good' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You dont have to convince the farmers, just show them the raw numbers....methane digesters pay for themselves in 7 years or less.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'after that, the farmers have a new revenue stream.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'now we just need somebody like you telling people about it's benefits on some medium they are likely to see :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'these environmental programs already exist in the last farm bill that was passed a few years ago.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'farmers can apply for grants to build methane digesters...they pay back part of the loan with the power produced.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's also maybe a community thing that could happen with it, the community could pay farmers to haul in their shit (or give them a percentage) of the proceeds from selling the energy to the energy companies' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'things is to keep that distributed so there isn't a single place where you wait in line for however long, 30 miles away' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'someday we will turn sewer plants into methane digester plants...and turn human waste into electricity...that will provide another 10% of natgas use.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or a garbage truck type of service that stops by and collects farmers shit-piles to take in for processing - new job' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'well, anything more efficient is pretty good to consider' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should be recycling all our trash....it makes financial sense.....start digging up old landfills and recycling all the trash in them.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'newer landfills are more like methane collectors than landfills.....they produce lots of natgas to produce electricity for nearby homes.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what about the problem of agriculture though? people have to eat - how can people become less reliant on potash excavation and chemicals?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'iirc i heard somewhere about microsoft getting into the fertilizer business - that might have been a figment of my imagination though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all the recycable stuff is removed from the trash, and the rest, the compostable stuff is put in the landfill to produce the gas.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'waste like manure can be one thing they use for that, there's also cycling of crops - but keeping farmers floating while they do this ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, most crop waste is already recycled...it is mixed with the soil to provide nutrients for the next planting.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'edmonton city has a garbage recycling deal, they extract fuel from it and stuff' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's maybe not the best but it's better than a giant incinerator' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, a high temp incinerator that also functions as a power producer is pretty good.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lots of countries are building those for some types of trash.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'reducing the amount of things incinerated using another process, on top of then burning what is unsalvageable for that additional electricity' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'makes more sense to burn extra cardboard instead of shipping it to china for recycling so that it can be shipped back to the country of origin.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wood pellets is another relatively new product....and very smart...turn mill waste into wood pellets that can be burned to produce electricity, or heat in homes.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they also have the corn-based plastic that they have introduced in those plastic salad containers...completely biodegradable, just as good as petroleum based plastic' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's not a fuel thing, but it is a nice piece of earth friendly tech' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it all adds up, that is how we will save the human race.....one small bit at a time :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I heard that they also invented a new lithium-ion battery with improved permeability, so that it can charge much faster than the other ones' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'meaning that with that tech, they can build electric cars that can refuel comparably to a gasoline car' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, and it holds 2x the power compared to older lithium ion batteries.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which I think is *really* important to getting people to take electric cars' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and Tesla Motorsports is going to introduce an affordable electric car for everyone, once they sell enough of their sportscars and luxury sedans' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and that will make me happy, when a kick ass company like that makes a great electric vehicle that performs as well or better than your gas powered vehicle, for the same price' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the sedan will still cost around $50k though, for those 240 miles per charge.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'hmmm I thought that they were using that sedan to fund the third, more affordable tier' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but you will also qualify for the $8000 rebate from the feds if you buy one.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I heard that in parts of china, cheap electric mini-cars are selling well. Unfortunately they aren't very green.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the batteries still cost a fortune, dont expect an electric car to get under $40k until they sell more than 200k of them a year.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'being 10x cheaper per mile though will add up as well' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and I guess all I can do is hope that science figures out how to make those batteries cheaper' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that nissan leaf only gets around 60 miles per charge, and costs around $30k or so I think.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh no, Tesla is way better than that' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only because they have more of the batteries :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the tesla battery pack is 3x bigger.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yep' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'something like 6,000 individual cells, each one much like a cellphone battery' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the problem with lithium though....it is an extremely rare metal....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that I did not know' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a fuel cell car would probably be more doable.....use natgas to power it' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides, when the power goes out at your home...you can use your fuel cell car to power your house. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'artificial hydrocarbons seem simpler than fuel cells' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'and we have the technology for it now, or at least within a few years of research' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the germans invented that technology...it isnt that efficient at the moment, but it is getting there.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, the nazis invented it, that is.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'the germans invented artificial hydrcarbons from coal, that's a totally different thing' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am a big supporter of using algae to produce biofuels, and animal feed.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and a way to reduce co2 emissions.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'agreed there' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if we had a way to get the carbon from atmospheric CO2...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the biofuel algae look really promising' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'we almost do, sonshi, with a few more years of research' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'carbon neutral is the goal...and I think algae is a step in the right direction.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it will also be a question of how much energy it would take to remove that CO2...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'we really need technologies that are carbon negative, but neutral is a step in the right direction' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'right, that's where more research is needed' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'gotta have some co2 going on though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, carbon neutral is good enough.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it would allow the planet to clean itself in a matter of time.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'carbon neutral might not be enough if we keep going at this rate for the next few decades...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'could take quite a long time to return to equilibrium' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'to remove some 100-200 ppm from the atmosphere could take thousands of years iirc' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'grow more trees :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'easier said than done' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'growing and burying trees has been suggested as a way to remove co2' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sink em in the ocean.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but that woudl waste good trees.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'rather turn the co2 into a solid and dumping that.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd need to put them some place where they wouldn't just go back into the cycle' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'make charcoal and put it in a mountain!' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'no need to make charcoal' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or better yet, use co2 to dissolve methane hydrates, and keep the co2 in the ground.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one way or another, lock it back in the ground...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'filling up a coal mine with trees would work fine, I think... and give the next intelligent race the opportunity to make the same mistakes we did' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'would still be a pretty long process though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the feds and conoco phillips just tested some new technology to tap into the vast methane hydrates in Alaska using co2 to dissolve the methane, and it the co2 stayed in the ground.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and we're not going to start until people start dying in large numbers in advanced nations' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but I really want to see algae farms connected to coal and natgas power plants...to produce fuel for transportation.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'use the co2 produced from the power plants to feed the algae.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'speaking of the next intelligent race, I saw this article about a particularly bright chimpanzee who built up stockpiles of rocks, plotting to throw them at visitors...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'monkeys have been doing that in malaysia for centuries. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'building and hiding stockpiles of rocks in advance?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'suppressing aggressive characteristics until getting within throwing range?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hopefully the future of transportation will be a combo of biofuels and electricity.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and crunchy cheetos are addictive.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the use of the hackneyed-(erstwhile-cute)-hypeword "combo" caused disbelief in what you said, Rizgoth ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the cynical audience distrusts those that use obviousty-empty cutesy words' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(the words are "obviousty empty" since they are "cutesy")' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1 US dollar is worth 16,150 iranian rials right now......6 months ago it was 10,800 rials per $1.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'euro death watch! Anyone following the current situation?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'No, Sonshi. What's happening?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the latest is that greek efforts to form a government has failed' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Ah, ok. Thanks.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and so an exit is now even more likely' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Krugman, for example, thinks it could happen in a month' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Then they revert to the dinar?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'dinar?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Er, drachma.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pretty much, or whatever they decide to call it' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'I'm afraid they might just as well call it kindling.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'within a year, a serious existential crisis for the euro could take place.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if more and more countries reject germany's view, you could get bank runs' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Maybe the Brits knew what they were doing all along.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heck, if I were spanish or italian, I'd probably move half my savings to a german bank now, just in case' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hrm, a serious "philosophical crisis", and within a year, but are the rich worried ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, lucky for the brits. I wonder if it was pride, or a sober, calculated awareness of the problems with the euro.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'Damned if I know. Maybe a bit of both.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'after greece, spain sure looks ready to blow...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'It's pretty disturbing how economies that had looked vigorous not so long ago are now in crisis. Spain and Ireland come to mind.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, spain was doing pretty well just 6 years back' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and over the last 5 years, the EU has slid so far that S Korea's per capita real gdp is less than 10% below the EU average' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and will probably overtake them in 2-3 years, barring a miracle in europe or a catastrophe in korea' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'heh, what about Ron Paul and his suggestion of multi-currencies within the USA -- in the Ron Paul multi-currency scenario happened, if multi-currency-defaults into bankruptcy happened, Ron Paul be looking like a multi-crook (?)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'What's the dollar/euro rate now?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '1euro to 1.27USD' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'That's been holding around there for a hell of a long time.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'over 1.4 a year back' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Ron Paul is short, and the short are not tall enough to get a good view of what is actually likely to happen with shortbrained schemes' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I suspect ron paul may be hoping to cash in by moving policy in his favour, whatever the cost to others' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm... it seems that over the last 5 years, taiwan's per capita real gdp has matched germany's and surpassed france and the UK.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at this rate, by the end of the crisis, east asia ex-china would have swapped positions with west europe in the economic rankings...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the USA, the republicans believe that in government by the rich to the rich for the rich -- the less than rich are to be tolerated (and or pot into concentration camps if they object to poverty)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the US position is also declining... HK has surpassed it. But HK isn't really a country, I suppose.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if china holds up, australia could pass the US on that scale soon too' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some "economists" seem to "bandy" the GDP as something "holy" statistic to be sought and increased' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a good proxy for measuring a country's material wealth' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the concept of the GDP was around for a long while, and yet financial crisis and meltdowns happen -- the GDP is neither the "holy grail" nor a valid "religious manta"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it isn't a measure of volatility, it's a measure of how much stuff a nation makes' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but a religious hype ... "strait and narrow is the financial path that leadeth to a healthy GDP" ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the path is neither straight nor narrow. Plenty of different strategies.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'american manufacturing in china is slowly returning to the US because of increased wage costs, shipping costs, and a slow increase in american made gaining hold.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not to mention manufacturing in the US is 4x more efficient compared to china, so wage increases in china hurt the bottom line quite a bit.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and then Jesus said "depart from me ye accursed republicans into the everlasting torments prepared for the callous rich and their cohorts"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, in a few decades, they may well be saying "take your crap manufacturing back, now it's YOUR turn to make cheap crap for us"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'doubtful, they would rather buy american stuff than the crap the chinese companies make for chinese people. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) <3 DJ Matty: 'It is true... the rich Chinese do not buy Chinese goods.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the chinese, I mean, after they've finished the whole low-tech phase' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'want your manufacturing back? Be careful what you wish for...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas added around 8000 new manufacturing jobs last year, expected to do the same this year.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but then again, the oil and gas industry added over 100,000 new jobs last year to the Texas economy. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if countries had a choice, far better to do the creative, high-tech, and admin work and let others do the manufacturing...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would rather have both, and all the other industries....a balanced economy is best.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas learned that lesson in the 80s, and has religiously recruited new tech companies to the state, and other industries.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, but if china (or india) manages to push past their political problems and get rich, it's likely that economic forces would push most of their manufacturing to second tier countries' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one major problem for the US is that it used to have one of the highest college-education rates...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but among younger age groups, it has already fallen behind many countries' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'china trained 200,000 new engineers last year, and most of them work in factories making $2 an hour producing ipods for western countries.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if it were reversed now, the disparity in human capital will mean further relative declines for a while' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It doesnt matter how many college educated people you have, what matters is what you do with that education, or lack thereof of education....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'much depends on how china's government manages to liberalise. Or not.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'china will only liberalize enough to stay in power and make 'enough' money, not a lot of money, but just enough to keep in power. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'something Cuba is starting to realize....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at this time, many of their better engineers are finding jobs in the west, while the third rate "engineers" wind up as lowly paid technicians at home.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Brazil is one of the fastest growing economies in the world, and the fastest growing in south america....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the number of their top-notch engineers rise beyond the capacity of western nations to absorb, the spillover could benefit china...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Mexico on the other hand is going in reverse compared to Brazil and the other economic countries of south america.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Honduras will probably be in civil war eventually, as will Columbia and Argentina.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, mexico has that whole drug war thing going on' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'argentina is growing rapidly' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, Argentina has started nationalizing its industries, just like Venezuela.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, argentina's per capita gdp is much higher than brazil's, and grew faster in the last few years too' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Instead of taking more taxes from the industries, they decided to take them over.....not a good way to get more investment.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given their growth rates, that might not even put much of a dent in it' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Venezuala oil production is down 50% since chavez nationalized the oil industry there.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the country is fairly decently managed, the market will close its eyes to a nationalisation or two...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're as badly managed as venezuela... well...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We shall see with Argentina, but I would bet against them.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wouldn't bet against them, given their record...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh sure, economic collapse, or was that chile....those countries are almost the same. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they did dodge that bullet back in that whole default thing...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Argentina does make a good steak, that is for sure :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love their beef.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and Patagonia is probably the most beautiful place in the world that I have ever seen.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, interesting paper way back when, predicting disaster for argentina' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa445.pdf' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Patagonia would make an athiest believe in a higher power created those beautiful landscapes.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless he had an education' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some astronomers tend to be atheists ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'astronomers tend to be educated' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I know lots of scientists who believe in God and that God created evolution. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, I was looking at the stats for argentina and brazil when I noticed that although argentina was in deficit and brazil was in surplus last year, as a percentage of gdp, argentina's public debt decreased faster than brazil's.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'illustrates the fact that when you're in debt, it's often better to increase your earnings than decrease your spending...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the reason that "crown corporations" in australia did not "work" was that those running those crown corporatiuons were corrupt nepotistic incompetent and crooked ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'increasing earnings is always good.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'when the people make more money....they tend to spend more money...for some reason govt hasnt figured that out.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'western countries need to figure out what the cheapest ways their government can use to increase gdp.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'could improve housing, roads, other infrastructure...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'putting it into human capital is also often a winner.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mexicos biggest problem is its population though....mexico has like 160 million people compared to only 40 million in Argentina.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'instead, many are reducing investments into critical areas. Brilliant.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, the "velocity of money" theory -- but what happens when the monies hurry overseas because Americans buy foreign' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'americans only buy foreign, because they have no american made option.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the road/housing/bridge you build is still going to be there...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade suspects that "free trade" is destroying the USA T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and spending money on infrastructure is always a good thing.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'agreed, get rid of the free trade act.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with so many homeless, they could employ them to help build housing clusters to house them, build transportation links to major industrial centres, and make it easy for them to get to places of employment, from housing where land is cheap...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the free trade act destroyed the corn tortilla industry in Mexico, because tree trade allows highly efficient american farmers to export wheat tortillas to mexico to be sold.....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if only half of them retain a job, it's still going to be worth it...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so what happens, all those poor mexicans come to the US looking for jobs because they cant grow corn to sell to tortilla makers anymore.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when crown corporations run in the red, those managing those corporations must be harshly held accountable -- public floggings ?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... it isn't really free trade when those wheat farmers are getting subsidised' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the mexican govt also subsidizes the wheat imports from canada and the US :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can't even argue that that sort of farming is an infant industry in need of protection' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'who'd like to see GW Bush publically flogged' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, can't call it free trade in either case' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if there was real free trade, the benefits would be huge' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mexico used to have tariffs on US and Canadian wheat that was imported, but not anymore.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'probably bullied into dropping them' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'those tariffs allowed mexican corn farmers to compete with the imports, but not anymore.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'subsidies should be eliminated on both sides...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'grain isn't some sort of high-tech or infant industry after all...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a country's food production is supposed to be mostly internal ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the free trade act destroyed the US steel industry also' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you get it where it's cheapest, as long as you can be assured of the standards' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'during a war and or skyrocketing transport costs, food transportation is likely to cease' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you might want to retain some manufacturing capability there, but otherwise, why not get your supply where it is cheap, and sell stuff to whoever will pay a higher price than your own value for it?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a couple years ago, because of a lack of power generation in Texas, and a really hot summer....we had to import power generation from Mexico at super high prices.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. Market failure' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lack of foresight by capitalists and economists' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas scrapped the building of 8 new modern coal power plants a few years ago because people complained about co2 production.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I remember something about the electricity market getting manipulated somewhere else too, california maybe, some years ago.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'whch is what caused the power deficit.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they wanted to reduce emissions, they could simply charge for the right to pollute' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'charge based on the estimated damage or cost to reverse it, if you can figure it out.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, the recent glut of natgas has created a low cost option for new power generation here, so 5 new natgas plants are being built.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and Sonshi complained of "foresight is not currently the cheapest, eat drink and be merry at the cheapest, what comes later be damned"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'epitah: "tomorrow's just a future yesterday"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am a firm believer in modern coal power plants....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Get rid of all those really old coal power plants in the midwest, and replace them with natgas or new coal plants.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and whose going to pay for the "upgrades" in a free market economy where the bureaucrats may be corrupt' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is called corporate bonds.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whose going to pay for the "upgrades" in a free market economy where the bureaucrats and politicians are corrupt' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the only valid answers are "taxpayers" or "customers". The latter will foot the bill if government fails to give the utility money.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you'd just charge for the cost of polluting just like any other resource, the problem would fix itself' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'corporate bonds -- is that a new form of indentured slavery' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nope, it is called a guaranteed return of 7% a year for 30 years.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what about the the cost of post-polluting after the fact by nuclear plants, oil-tanker spills, oil-pipeline bursts, earthquakes near nuclear plants' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you're never going to get a simple pollution tax in place without an option to get around it in some fashion (ie, cap and trade)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what exactly is "cap and trade"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'carbon taxes are stupid anyways....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'carbon taxes just hurt the lower income people.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the term "cap and trade" is bandied about a lot' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the "cap" part is where they set pollution standards--stay below this mark and we'll let it go, go above it and you have to pay us extra.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nonetheless it is more efficient to make people and corporations pay for resources they use, including pollution "rights"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's trivial to offset the impact to the poor. Just give them some of the money.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is more efficient to just force the companies to use new technology to remove pollution from the emissions, and co2 is not pollution btw.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the "trade" part is where they give entities who stay below the mark bonuses in the form of saleable credits that those who cannot meet the mark can use to raise the mark to a reachable level (in short, if I can't meet the EPA guideline of 52 parts, I can buy credits so that I'm not penalized if I hover at 65 parts).' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it causes damage to someone else, it can be classified as pollution' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the intent is to help out those anywhere close to the set point, but all cap and trade proposals thus far have kept the credits-buying open-ended.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and how do you figure that co2 harms anyone ?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if that was the case, I suggest you stop breathing....you are hurting someone. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it contributes to global warming, and we cannot breath it (turns out this is true for a almost all animal life on Earth).' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so algae farms grab a lot of CO2 from the air' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is an interesting theory, except co2 feeds the plants that happen to produce the oxygen that those lifeforms breathe in :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which is perfectly fine when we're not stuffing extra co2 underground.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and plants tend to get bigger when there is more co2 available for them to use.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, it has already hurt people living on small, low-lying pacific islands that have gotten flooded...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it contributes to increased hurricane activity' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is rather damaging' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'at some point, we're going to end up with a "nuclear waste" type of co2 problem' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh please, 50,000 years ago, those islands were underwater. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '50000 years ago, we weren't alive' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'algae farms to produce ethanol and biofuels, are they able to grab enough CO2 from the air to reduce global warming' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nonetheless, if you stick a knife in my chest, you can't claim that's okay.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'since I wasn't around 50000 years ago anyway' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'while co2 won't do much to ground water other than turning it into soda water, it will deplete the oxygen from it and kill off anything that consumes oxygen.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada sits down and thinks deeply. T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"hey, you're going to die anyway!"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and yes, homo sapiens were around 50,000 years ago, just not with ipods, and hummers.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'don't the nice scientists agree that atmospheric co2 was several times higher some years ago?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the debate on climate change isn't about whether we'll die out.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's part of it though. It does increase the risk substantially' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's about how well we can survive when the Earth changes. We'll survive, even if we have to return to a nomadic hunter-gatherer lifestyle similar to The Day After Tomorrow.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'during the dinosaur years, the atmospheric co2 and oxygen levels were much higher than today.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we aren't adapted to those times' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'note that those algae-produced biofuels are likely to be consumed by industry and recylced back into CO2 (and the other organic plants are not going to starve from lack of CO2 especially when there is a current glut of CO2)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the greenhouse affect was much thicker.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally, I'd like to avoid a climate that doesn't suit humanity' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's a theory that says there was a nonstop wildfire simmering away somewhere on Earth the entire time dinosaurs were alive.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, seeing as how humans are the most easily capable of adapting to its environment, I am not worried...but lets keep building wind turbines and solar panels regardless....:)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not more than cockroaches...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I wouldn't want to be a cockroach if Earth got nuked somehow.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cockroaches have not invented clothes to keep from freezing in Alaska or Canada. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it would really suck to have to become a near-vegetarian because of tis sort of crap' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'what are we debating about people' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cockroaches have not evolved in 200 million years.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'They appear to have reached perfection :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but then again, neither have sharks, alligators or crocodiles :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'And neither have the Washington Capitals. Flame out in the playoffs every year :(' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or the houston astros :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rhavage can sympathize with Riz. T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't think potato bugs have either. potato bugs can stand far more radiation than cockroaches. If you need to wipe out potato bugs, it practically requires a Gamma-Ray Burst. Anything else and they'll probably survive.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'A well places shoe often does the trick.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhavage: 'placed, even' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'god forbid the bees disappear though....then we will need to come up with a mechanical means to fertilize a lot of food crops.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much air pollution do solar-panels produce from materials used while baking in the sun' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'baking in the sun?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'solar panels do not produce pollution except during the manufacturing process.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no more than having those materials in useless globs.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's not entirely true, since they're still relatively thermally-inefficient.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but no particulates' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and besides, even after the energy used to make the panels.....that energy would be paid for after a month of sun.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much environmental psychological-stress to wind-turbines produce from the low frequency sounds and the chemical-leakage from the lubricants' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think the latest generation of super-efficient panels still only barely hits %40 efficiency.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'what we need is a replacement for silicon though....otherwise solar panels are always going to be expensive.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on the lubricants used, stress depends on where they're situatied' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unless someone comes up with a new process to manufacture silicon' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't think it's the process that limits silicon. Isn't the issue similar to what's threatening silicon in the electronics/tech industry?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'solar panels only hit 40% efficiency in the labs....in real world operation, you would get 16% or so.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they released some solar panels that hit 85% efficiency' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they move with the sun or something, like flowers' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe it is, maybe 75%' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even with moving with the sun, it is still 16%' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the solar panels only produce so much power regardless, you would have to intensify the sunlight to increase power production' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it was on sciencedaily.com ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'chemical-pollution from a few solar-panels and sound-pollution from a few wind-turbines may be minimal, but if there were billions of solar-panels and millions of wind-turbines, there may be different story' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'still in it's research stages, but they claimed to have a high energy conversion rate' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the basic problem with panels is that they have limited surface area so most of the energy produced just gets wasted as heat. The latest generation uses metallic studs so that effectively the entire depth of the panel acts as a collector. Didn't think those were out yet, though.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'concentrated solar power can reach 50% efficiency or higher, but those processes do not use solar panels...they use mirrors to heat up a liquid that turns to steam to turn a turbine.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'The scientists claim up to 85% of usable sunlight is absorbed by the new panels, compared to approximately 17% efficiency with current commerically available solar cells. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/02/15/2818151.htm' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this might not be the same one, but they say it uses less silicon and stuff' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yep, same one. I think they had a story on them in Discovery magazine early last year.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love wind power, and tidal power, and geothermal power' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'personally, I love all power.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the (plastic?) materials used to (compose and) hold the solar-panels may be a source of environmental chemical pollution (if somebody was using the "cheapest" materials available) -- plastics leak odors' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think the answers in balancing them to be as non-invasive as possible' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not all wind or all solar or all coal etc' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wind power is good, but not as a baseline power.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nah, the answer is in battery tech. Energy storage is more of a problem than alternegy efficiency.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also there's these thigns called passive turbines on rivers you can use, instead of daming the whole thing' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we will always need coal, natgas, nuclear, or hydro as a baseline power source for at least the next 50 years if not longer.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe something like those could be used in some ocean area's' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'been around decades' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we could set up vast farms using localized power sources, but to share the unused resources we'd have to essentially electrocute everyone by sending all that extra power zooming forever up and down the power grid.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most storage batteries reek or smell ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the future is wireless energy....go go Tesla!' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, that'd be the end-of-days for society. Imagine all the feats the stupid-people bloc could do with wireless energy.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wireless is fine, if you don't mind frying your brain' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is ok, I have a bunker.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade suspects that "wireless energy" is an lsd or hookah-pipe drug dream T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'doesn't matter if you have a bunker, they have access to the power. One wrong move could bring the whole thing crashing down around you and then you'd be sitting in the dark.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is why I have a powered bunker with its own power sources, and backups. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'some places used to be covered in trees from front to back, wind-energy might be less intrusive in places like that than in places which have been more open' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'since the tree's probably slowed the wind speed somewhat' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You see, back in the 1960s and 70s, the US govt built hundreds of communication bunkers incase there was a nuclear war....they wanted to make sure that the pre-internet stayed up so that military communications would keep going.....well, now you can buy those $12 million comm bunkers for $200k :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why bother building a forest, though? They're working on wind-turbine "kites", kept aloft somehow (balloons?) and kept on a leash, to get up to the bigger winds' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'my grandma remembered a company in california having started building electric car's in the 90's - which was bought and destroyed by somebody else, and possibly in 1885 rover corporation had already invented the first electric cars' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the energy-efficiency of high-power lasers is less than 100% -- the energy-efficiency of solar-panels is less than 100% -- so except for solar energy, economical "wireless energy" is unlikely ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think that alot of the destruction and un-neccessary waste in the world is intelligently designed by the people who run those things' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'OMG! Yogi, it's a trap! Quick, GET OUT OF THERE!' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'many tech companies have been buying up those old comm bunkers to put database farms inside, because the 3 foot thick concrete walls and 10 feet of earth on top is a great insulator.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, but i think wind should be treated like any other element in the 'evolution theory', up high at this point on earth it wasn't obstructed in the past - what could be the 1.5 billion year reaction to change, if it's large?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wind energy is sexy....' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but then again I am biased.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'who wouldn't want a bunker like that in their backyard? i think it'd be pretty good - how big are they?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so you use a vacuum cleaner to get off, like Alan Harper' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's much more efficient to use a milk machine, Zade.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, my bunker is 20,000 sq feet, most of them were around that size.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there are hundreds of them all over the country.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's huge' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'Are we STILL talking about cockroaches?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'when I bought it, it had a 10,000 gallon water tank, 5000 gallon diesel tank, a 24,000 watt diesel generator....and it still freaking works btw.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'has its own septic system, water well, comm tower, etc.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's awesome' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'good fine' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'find*' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, we've moved on to flying windmill farms and the sexual advantages of a milk machine.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'water tank and diesel tank were in good shape too?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, no leaks that the engineer could tell.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'awesome' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'has a 6 ton metal door also, and 2 emergency hatches.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that sounds like the kind of fort i'd like to have, lol' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm jealous now' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is really cool, I love working on it :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just don't kill your wife and kids and expect to hide out there. It's not safe at all.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the elevator can hold 2 tons, and there is an emergency staircase to the top level next to the elevator.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that guy in washington' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'wow, and an elevator to the surface' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'does it lead into the comm tower?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, the comm tower is a basic metal comm tower, like a cell tower.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and this is all yours for just 250k, that's incredible' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'oh, ok' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is 150 feet tall though, going to have a cell phone company put a cell thingy on it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so I can get wifi :p' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'nice, maybe get royalties to it' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'open up your own isp too, why not' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I bought it on the spot, because it wasnt full of water....most of them are full of water.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'who do you call to go looking at them?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I cleaned it up, added stucco to the walls, cleaned up the metal staircase, elevator, added modern efficient appliances to the kitchen, etc' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'rewired the electrical system to DC and AC power.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I got lucky and called a local real estate agent who found the listing.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'upgraded the well pump, have outside power also, but have a cutoff switch if the grid goes down.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it physically disconnects the bunker from the grid so that surges do not destroy my electrical system.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if you really wanna have a safe haven from a attack or something, you probably want to go to where there isn't much people at all, and most stuff is off-grid' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, west texas is sparsely populated. :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'd like to own a cottage or something out in the middle of nowhere, maybe near some good fishing' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the water well is unlimited water, have solar panels for backup power, and 2 small wind turbines to recharge the batteries.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'since the diesel wont last forever.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I enjoy going to the bunker, shutting everything off, the emergency lights turn on, and just sitting in the lazy boy chair in the living room....no sound at all and just think about things.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i'd do that too' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i probably would move into it though' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe toss a ordinary house up top and attempt to erase it's presence from the record books' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'thought about that, but it isnt on the property rolls anyways.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I havent gotten a property tax notice ever since I bought it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'How would you uncloud a mind? Just curious thought.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'by taking a shower ?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'lol' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'case of beer' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nowadays, and apparently with Rizgoth's money, you just turn off the internet.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'nah.. That's surpressing it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the bunker also has a 20 year supply of emergency food, thousands of seeds for the underground greenhouse, and all the tools you will need just in case.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'lol.. Who is paranoid? Why you need all the supplies and a fortified bunker? You making preparations for ww3? Lmfao.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, I use it for a vacation house.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have always been intrigued by underground homes.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did you ever hear about that cool home built in a cave? All rounded walls with no corners whatsoever.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I was reading about a groundscraper that is being built in Japan....instead of going up into the sky...it goes down into the ground...about 200 stories.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Isn't Japan a little bit ...uh... geologically unstable for earthworks like that?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'so am I. You should see my design I draw for an underground living area. It's perfect. Underground, right beneath the house. Like a basement.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, I wonder if the guy was able to sell the home....he was apparently bankrupt and couldnt afford the mortgage.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a cave house would be cool.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I saw this movie earlier tonight and was astonished by such idiocy and ignorance... Based on a documentary and true story. Catholic pastors performing excorsism ... Lmfao. Omg... They are so ..speechless. I can't believe they actually agreed to publish that crap. Hahaha...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Chris Matthews was on Jeopardy! recently. They gave him the answers and he STILL couldn't win.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'll take famous titties for 400.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Princess Liathum: 'Michelle Williams in Brokeback Mountain! Wait--what?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the US is going to export natgas to India, so that India does not have to import natgas from Iran.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The India natgas plant is probably a major reason Enron failed.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, just love johnsonville smoked sausage hotdogs.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i has some beer and spaggheti' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'hi' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what is the scandal about the "rogue servers" that all seem to be coming from China ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'You mean the ones that the FBI was talking about, with the disdirect virus?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'misdirect, even.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Canada a third world country because Canada is seeking Chinese investment monies so that Canada may be exploited further' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Harper government for a temporary profit seems to be intent on selling Canada to the Chinese' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'canada is sitting on top of the world, offering to play three card monte with any and all who walk by with money in their pocketses' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but which country is getting fleeced while playing that bad analogy (three card full monte)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'china has never repaid their pre-revolutionary debt, they can't call the debts in' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the quality-of-goods in stores these days seems to be increasingly shoddy -- suspect those shoddy goods are coming from China' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'and in time their government will topple, and canada will play the same game, all debts are null and void' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'the quality of goods in relation to their price has never been higher' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'says Science: sugar makes you dumb.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'it is just that the price of higher quality goods has risen in response' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the US doesn't pay their debts, either. The US defaulted to England so it is no longer a sovereign state, by definition. ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the excessive use of plastics in goods instead of more durable metals is leading to shoddiness in high-priced items ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos laughs at Zade mercilessly. T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you just noticed that? That's been going on since the late '70s' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'besides what do you expect from a country where people buy wood veneer?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'When did the US default to England? I can't find anything about it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'also where did he get his definition of sovereign country.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Huawei or No way" - by Stephen Colbert or rather by a Chinese clone' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Harper is selling out Canada's electronic security and perhaps indirectly setting the stage to fulfil a nostradamus prophecy' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Bill C38 (Canada)-- unemployed teachers to be taking jobs as taxi drivers and Mcdonalds employees -- good or bad ?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'id rather drive a taxi' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and risk getting mugged instead of indigestion ?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'those dudes carry huge guns' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not in Canada' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'this is the month of season finales on TV, and they are not replacing them with decent new tvshows' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Greece may go bankrupt as early as next month' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'The United States defaulted on its national debt obligations in 1790 and again in 1933' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I didn't say they never defaulted. I asked when they defaulted to England. In 1790, the fed assumed the state debt from the war, deferred interest for 10 years, and then paid it off.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'right before the irs was created, interesting' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'And 1933 was just the US switching from gold to paper notes.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that is still a default. Default means you didn't pay when you were supposed to. If you pay later, that might make you a nice guy but you are still a defaulter.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'your mom is' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'But how was England involved? And how does it affect US sovereignty?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Surely you're not suggesting that we borrowed money from England to fund the Revolutionary War? Or WWI?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'a nation can't be sovereign if it's beholding to another nation, by definition. ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the new "Sherlock" series only produces three 85 miuute shows per season -- Brits are lazy even if the new "Sherlock" shows are seemingly profitable' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'when the US defaulted its loans, it theoretically forfeited whatever collateral in used, just because the holder of the bond didn't make the claim doesn't relieve the issue.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Except soverign debt isn't collateralized. And in both of the examples you mentioned, the debts were repaid eventually.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'loss of sovereignty is a common thing nowdays, anyway. Any nation that borrows from the World Bank effectively relinquishes sovereignty. The conditions of the loan makes the borrowing nation a client of the bank. ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"nuke a nation based upon a flimsy and false accusation" -- no credibility there' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'eventually is not good enough' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'right, Zade.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'If you owe me ten bucks, and promise me your bike, and pay back the debt ten years late, I can't take the money and your bike.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The time to take the collateral, if such a thing were used for soverign debt, would be during the default.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'If I say ten years later is ok, and you pay me ten years later, that's an amended loan agreement.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the conditions of the loan is as follows, you lend me x and hold the bike as collateral. I default, so by the conditions of the loan, the bike is yours. Even if I pay the money back. The default is absolute, the bike is yours, the only reason I might pay you back after that is to strengthen my credit with you, which is what the US did.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong, Anaristos' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'for 10 years or so, the lender was without the cash, you can't ever remedy that.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'politics is pragmatic, and reneging is a common practice' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'But that doesn't mean that 120 years later there is any remaining claim.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so are drive-by-shootings, that doesn't make them right.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you might be that forgiving, Oath.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'It sounds like you read a lot of right-wing conspiracy sites, but that you don't understand a lot of it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I don't mean that in an insulting way. I just mean that you aren't making any sense.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oh, right, the US didn't default, it's a lie by US-haters.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I didn't say that. I've said I didn't say that. I just don't understand what you're saying about it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'And I'm not sure you do, either.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it's simple if a nation defaults on its debt, it loses its soverignty, period.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and if you think that's trivial, you ought to see what that claim causes in a ordinary court of law in the US.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GQ Bully Zibest: 'no, if nation defaults on its debt, many gamblers lose their stakes' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there are laws that the US can't enforce, in theory, because it isn't a sovereign nation.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'example?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'you mean like speed limits on the highways?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so you are saying that nations who loan money to the US should have been aware that they were gambling? I get your point.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you lend to someone who promises no collateral and can change the terms at will, and if that someone refuses to pay... tough luck.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'investing money is always risky' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if you were to put your bike up as collateral in a loan, promising to hand over the bike upon default and actually handing it over are two different things' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, if you don't hand the bike over it is even worse :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'depends... for who.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you transition from being a dead beat to being a thief :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a nation that's merely a thief is pretty good, considering most are robbers and murderers' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oh, I agree. I wasn't making a moral issue of it :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but the point here is that agreeing to limit your own sovereignty and actually doing it are completely different things. No one really expects the latter to happen, unless the country is feeling particularly generous.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'didn't greece practically do it?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but the level of hypocrisy that is required to sit in judgment of other nations while being a deadbeat nation has to be pretty high :) ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'thought lots of their leaders pretty much just walked off the job or something' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos rapidly nods twice to you, in complete agreement. T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'an agreement that says something like "hey, in exchange for X, we'll agree to screw ourselves over if Y happens" can be regarded as not worth the paper it's written on.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the evolutionary scheme, "better to be a rich thief than an honest pauper" -- do not listen to crooked "lawyers" telling you be honest and poor' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oh, then you intended to default when you took the money. I see.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'according to the OT, "usury" is a "crime"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the other side will scream bloody murder, even though everyone expected you to do it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's all part of the whole great diplomatic act' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'what you are saying, Sonshi, is that there is no way to enforce repayment, except by reducing the debtor's sovereignty, of course. ' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so when a nation borrows money, it does with the full intention of defaulting.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anaristos is trolling' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you expect them to hold to it, you'd have to be prepared to use sufficient force, at least...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so the Greece problem is pratically solved :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'let them default and then go about their business :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nations don't borrow money with the intent if defaulting, usually. They borrow with the intent of honouring it as long as things don't go too badly.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so their currency goes down the toilet? Do what Mexico did, devide the price of goods by 1000000.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I wish banks loaned me money under those conditions :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a country usually winds up doing that sort of thing when the alternatives seem worse.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, Chase, let me 20K, I'll pay you back if I can.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you see, those guy are prepared to use force...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(guys)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so am I :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'let the bill collector knock on my door...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it also matters if you are able to use sufficient force' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but legally, Chase can't use any force at all.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'not the kind of force nations can use, anyway.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they can and are willing to crush you like a bug, you don't have much choice there' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, who would have thought that there were a 2-tier system :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'their force on you is greater - they can sue you and sic the legal system on you...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'sure, and I move to the People's Park in Berkeley and they can get all the money they can from me :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while your average country will laugh in the face of such attempts in most cases' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if you have nothing left for them to take, that's a different matter...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Ecuador is not laughing. They borrowed money from the World Bank and they are practically a tenant state.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because the alternatives are still better than default. Or at least, their leadership believes so' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they can only invest the money in projects that the World Bank approves, and they projects must be implemented only by companies that are approved by the World Bank... Somehow that precludes any local companies from participating. I wonder why...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anaristos won't be able to play aardwolf anymore if they take everything from the defaulting Anaristos' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'If they were able to handle their own affairs, and if they were able to handle their debts, they'd have allies that would buy their bonds and they wouldn't need the world bank.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, I have more than one laptop and the location of the others are secret :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they can default and take the external consequences... if they do so the world bank won't be able to touch internal affairs. It's a choice any indebted country has' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the World Bank is obviously corrupt -- the World Bank is there is exploit victims' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'those countries don't have to take their deals...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Just like those prepaid credit cards that tack a fee on every transaction, even checking your balance. If you end up dealing with a 'lender of last resort' you're gonna get raked over the coals.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the World Bank, the Trilateral Commission, they are all corrupt and led by US interests, though I can't imagine why that is significant :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the deals they offer may be crappy, but there's a reason why they take it, because they really need the cash.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'yes, they need the cash but they really don't get it.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"and kiddies do not require to take the candy and get into the van"' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sort of like buying furniture at the rent to own store.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no one's stopping them from doing a full argentina' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Ecuador, for instance, is just a conduit for the money to travel from the vaults of the World Bank to their cronies.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Ecuador just makes the transaction "legal" if there is an audit.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, as long as the elections are free, you get the government you deserve, oftentimes' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Is it my fault if the people I live near are retards?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'please, Sonshi, what is a free election? Have you ever heard of one?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yes, your fault, if you beggared them into retards' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it can be considered free as long as the barriers to entry are not too onerous, and the vote isn't rigged' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, Vakieh, birds of a feather...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, that's a good definiton, Sonshi. Now just tell me where in the world do you find elections like that?' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "free" elections in Russia -- some suspect those elections were rigged' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sadly, we are all part of a community... if you live in a sea of fools, maybe you should consider moving, or educating your neighbours.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in russia's case, I think it goes beyond mere suspicion' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I wouldn't be foolish enough to educate my neighbors, there are less painful ways to commit suicide.' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'free elections happen in many places...' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even back home, the elections are free, even if they aren't very fair' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Pick any nation and you will see that the electoral corruption is apparent. That is why I laugh when they send independent observers to emerging nations :) When origin nation of the observers have a stake in the election :)' T3/r6/2012-05-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'after all, you can only shift the electoral boundaries so much, and sue your opponenents so much, before the voters turn on you...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the voters are at sea, in dreamland, drugged on something. It is obvious to anyone who looks that elections are corrupt.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, our opposition candidates don't report any irregularities during the counting, as far as I know...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I doubt if a majority of elected official could stand up to an investigation of electoral practices.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the candidates themselves are the best monitors...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'opposing candidates don't report corruption because they themselves practice it, they lose because they are outplayed not because they are good and the others are evil :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Then why are there court cases in the US every couple years about irregularities in election procedures?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Catching your opponent is just as good as getting more votes. It's not about what you've done. It's about what you can prove they've done.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Gore and The Bush are a classic example. The only reason Gore allowed the Supreme Court to make that horrendously illegal decision was because he was afraid that further scrutiny would uncover the dirt he was hiding.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Or it could be that the US is a republic, and not a democracy, and that the popular vote is meaningless.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US is a corporatist Democratic Theatre.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You can vote for anyone, so long as it is one of these 2 people who think alike on 99% of policies.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I dunno about all that. It's a republic. The electoral commission decides who gets elected. They follow the will of the people, generally, but you don't directly vote on a person.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, the US is a republic and not a democracy, but that Supreme Court is not the Electorial College. Further, the constitution prohibits the Justice branch of the government to enact laws, that is the absolute province of the Congress.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they usurped the authority of the congress, which by constitutional writ are charged with determining who the president is in situations where the results of the elections do not yield a winner for whatever reason.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The courts only handled the procedures of the recounts.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'They didn't choose anyone or decide which votes were accepted. That was handled by the Florida election commission.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'even further, the claim by Bush that the country could not operate without a sitting government was patently false. There was ample precedent to reject that claim. It took 6 months, for instance, for Lincoln to be declared president.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'they voted for Bush's claim, that made their decision a law. The law now states that there can't be undue delay before a president sits in office, even if it means bypassing the constitution.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the decision by the USSC set a precedent that will be invoked again when convenient.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Except that it wasn't a signed decision.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so who was sat in office?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Per Curiam is the term.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'defaulting to the previous President until a new President was "officially" decided and thus "elected" was an alternative option' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I ask you this, Oath. Was Bush elected president of the United States? Can that be proven?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'He was elected in the same way all presidents have been elected....' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'yes, Zade, which is what they did in the days when there wasn't a quick means to count votes.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some say GW Bush was "appointed" not "elected"' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'like all presidents' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it can be proven as well as it can be proven for any other election in US history...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'We don't know that, Rarr. Not all the votes were counted, so we don't know who actually won the election.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I think if there was any proof, it would be hard to convince a hungry reporter to sit on it. As much scrutiny as the Florida recount has faced, and as many people who have tried to find evidence of outright fraud, it'd be very hard to keep quiet.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I assume all tallots are archived, so they could be checked?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not all votes are counted in any election that has ever happened' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'There are *always* fuckups.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'checked by whom? The USSC rejected that request by Gore.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In a democratic country, all votes are counted.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in a democratic country, they technically attempt to count all the votes' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the US is not a democracy.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The votes were counted. Gore requested a recount of 4 counties by hand, and they did not finish by the deadline provided in Florida law.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a group of newspapers went back and re-counted as well.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the issue was not in whether to count any given vote, the issue was in whether a given vote could reasonably be known which way that vote was' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'An extension was offered by Florida courts. Bush asked the USSC to vacate that decision, and the USSC did so.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but the Florida law was clearly wrong because they disenfranchised the voters. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'had they finished the recount that gore asked for, bush would still have won by a very small amount.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'all known/recognized votes were counted' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'how can you say that with certainty, Majic. Unless of course you had a look at the ballots in question.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'had they recounted every single county, the result might have been different.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If a state law can affect the selection of president, the system is broken. Please reboot.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm going off the study done by the national opinion research center actually.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that was the point, Ranrr. That is what the USSC failed to acknowledge.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, anaristos, we can say that with as much certainty as every other presidential election in US history' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'So, why do US citizens accept this?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'yes, an absolutely apolitical entity, I am sure, Majic.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'any entity is political in some ways whether it admits it or not.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'because they are sheep, Ranrr :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'we accept it because life is pretty damn good for those of use who vote' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'what makes the US a stable nation also makes it easier for politicians to manipulate the system. In many nations the problem with the Gore/Bush election would have resulted in open rebellion. Not in the US, people bought popcorn and sat back and watched. They couldn't really care one way or the other what the issues involved were, they would go along with whatever.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'anyway, they went and reviewed all of them. there are several different ways they could have recounted them. some are obvious, where they checked a candidates name and wrote in the same name. some others are less obvious, where there was a very faint mark or where they checked two candidates.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Well, to tell you the truth, I am betting that goth Gore and Bush stuffed the ballots. I would have done the election over :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'both*' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'under any strategy, bush wins if they only recount those 4 counties. under some strategies, gore would have won in a complete statewide recount.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and you think they couldn't stuff the ballot box again? any stuffing can be re-stuffed.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'The most important thing is that, since 2000, the federal government funded changes to election procedures. So we learned from our mistakes and improved the process.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'of course they could, but the count would still be different, the results weren't guaranteed for Bush.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'so we should just redo the election until the guy we like wins? :p' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and it takes a lot of nerve to cheat in a state where your brother is governor. That, to me, was a slap on the face of the electorate. But as I said, the US is a nation of sheep, they just say "OK".' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Not really. The US is a nation of laws. And the laws determined how the matter was handled. Not individual preference. And afterwards, HAVA made the process even better.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and what law allows for candidates to stuff the ballots?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'There are laws against it, if it can be proven.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Just saying "oh his brother was governer, of course he cheated" isn't good enough.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the USSC had no authority to make that decision, so, that leaves what?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Technically, the Florida SC didn't have the authority to modify the recount deadline in the first place.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Well, that's the point. You would have thought that to make sure no one would accuse the Bush family of conspiring to manipulate the election, they would have agreed to the recount. Instead, they acted as if they were hiding something, because they were.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Or they acted like the decision of Florida's elected lawmakers mattered.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'And they did finish the recount, though it was non-binding. And the results favored Bush in just about every way you looked at it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'This is all old news, let it go' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'There were a lot of flaws in their recount procedure, anyway. Which have since been addressed.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Bush won, get over it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Jeb sent the AG to block the recount, so if that is not direct interference, they I don't know what is. He showed no obvious concern for the integrity of the electoral process in his state.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so you are saying that Obama is going to take Florida? :>' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'You're just upset because there are few opportunities for 'your mom' jokes in this discussion, Star. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'brb' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'furthermore there were a lot of flaws in ballot design in a few counties' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I just think it's pointless to cry about how George W. Bush "stole" the election' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'besides, it will be years before the nation recovers from Bush winning that election :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'He won, he served two terms, he did a damn fine job, it's over. Let it go.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some suspect that the Bush family directly and indirectly conspired with the Bin Laden family ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: '2 of those statements are completely factual!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'GW Bush ruined the USA' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Please, ballot design flaws? Ballots are designed to be so stupidly simple that even your retarded mom's sister could figure them out.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'he did a damn find job? Wow, human perception is varied :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'he certainly didnt help' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, they had a two-page ballot and some people were extremely confused by it. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'personally i think that's evidence of being too knuckle-headed to vote, but hey.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '(some counties)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Lots of places in Florida had butterfly ballots. It's not hard to see how some people misvoted on them.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If people were "Extremely confused" by the ballot then I'd argue that they were "extremely stupid" and had no business voting anyway.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'We have a two page ballot where I live too, nobody has problems figuring it out' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I agree. Warm body democracy never works.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'As Heinlein loved to mention, bread and circuses.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I think we should go with 'service equals citizenship'.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'here's a (rather biased) website with a pic of the ballot, http://arts.bev.net/roperldavid/politics/fl2000.htm' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Starship Trooper ?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Wtf, Leinei? Come on, have a bit of common sense. The things are laid out so stupidly simple that an illiterate retard could figure them out.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Yeah, Zade. That book had a lot of politics in it. But it's something he went into in just about all of his books.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'let's see, he had 2 or 3 hundred thousand Iraquis killed, a few thousand US soldiers killed. Made Enron and Holliburton superstars, killed a few more thousand Afghani's and a few more thousand US troops, made hugh profits for financial institutions that would later default. Gee, I wish all presidents were like that. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Here's an actual ballot: http://www.asktog.com/images/palmballot.jpg' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'i'd actually agree w/him tho he wasn't the first to have the idea. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'not even the Ragan was that crappy.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'people read top-to-bottom. It's not hard to see how someone thought the second hole was for the second canditate' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If they were confused, they didn't bother to read. These are the same fucktard people who create new chars here who can't be arsed to read a goddamn helpfile.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right, but the heavily democratic county that used those ballots had a fuckload more people vote for reform than any other county in the state.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Starling, the constitution of the US does not require intelligence as a factor when enfranchising the people. It does require that anyone who qualifes by law to elect a candidate can do so without any undue problems.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that, btw, is not evidence that 'bush stole florida', it's evidence that the officials in that county suck at designing balloets. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Unfortunately, Anaristos, it would seem that the general public's stupidity is a problem' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Bush didn't steal Florida, he won it fair and square and I'm sorry that the Dems were butthurt by that.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I'm sorry that they were even more butthurt the second time around.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'GWB still won. Deal with it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Yes, Majic, it is possible that Bush, whose brother controls the political machinery of the state, was not aware of the potential manipulation of those counties...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'he lost the popular vote the first time' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic rolls her eyes in disgust at Undertaken Anaristos. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'heh, I am agreeing with you. Bush may not have known.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but I tell you, if he didn't know, someone in his camp would know. Like 9/11 he didn't know what was going on :>' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I don't think that's correct. You had to be a property owner until the 1820s.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd consider it extremely unlikely that jeb bush knew about it either. I'd consider it vaguely possible that someone in the local palm beach government designed it that way.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'There is no 9/11 conspiracy' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's correct, Oath. Only landowners could vote till then. Absolute proof that the US was a republic and not a democracy.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Not like Gore was the first person to get more popular votes and lose. It's happened 3 or 4 times.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Idom: 'its all on the puppetmaster, whoever that is' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just not since the 19th centurty.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure there was, it involved osama and a bunch of his guys' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The US has always been a republic' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, I am glad that I finally found a witness, Sonshi. I am hoping you can testify to what actually happened :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'yes, Starling, but it claims to be a democracy.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heck, John Quincy Adams got less than 31% of the popular vote, but still got more electoral college votes.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'And in many ways, it is.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'All our local officials are democratically elected.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Frankly, I'm glad that national offices aren't democratic, because the general public is too stupid to make any informed decision' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'in no way it is, a democracy and a republic are not compatible. They are entirely two different animals. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'And what country are you from?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the power in the US belongs to the landowners, the States.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it doesn't matter what country I am from :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'They're not entirely incompatible. A (very few) decisions are made democratically.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yes, it does' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'no it doesn't.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If you're not from the US, then fuck off and go pound sand. Our local and state officials are all elected democraticaly.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Isn't every national office besides the president either democratically elected or appointed?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'It matters in the sense of whether your a participant, or merely outside looking in.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it doesn't matter where I am from, I pay taxes in the US, so I am going to bitch if I want to.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, they're dumb enough to vote for sherrifs, even!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and here we go, the same design was used in the 1996 election and caused misvotes, but it didn't affect the election outcome and so nobody either noticed or cared. the woman who designed the ballot for the 2000 election, however, was a registered democrat.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'You pay taxes but aren't a citizen? Good, pay your taxes and shut the hell up.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'the US is as democratic as China is communist' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'they took r jobs!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'did I say I wasn't a citizen? Paying taxes is good enough, though. If you pay to support the system you are entitled to criticize it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'der tuk der jubs!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'were the ballots uniform all across Florida, or were they different in Democrat counties to those in Republican counties' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'China is not comunist, there is no such animal.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'they were not uniform all across florida. they are designed in each case by the local official. it was palm beach county, however, where the biggest error rate was found and the stupidest ballot design.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Senator Starbug: 'it's almost as if things cannot exist in absolute pure states' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'In any case, there are no "misvotes"' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, only pure things are in absolute pure states.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If you "misvote" then sorry, you didn't bother to take a second to read the damned ballot' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sure there are. it's just that in most cases they cancel each other out.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ah, what about the dead voters?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If you are too goddamn stupid to read the freakin' ballot, YOU SHOULD NOT BE VOTING, period.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The problem is that the people that are that "stupid" and wanted to vote republican did so.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, Starling. I understand you. Democracy, as you claim that exists in the US, is only for the intelligent.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'the ones that wanted to vote democrat didn't' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the suspicion is that some of the Florida ballots were *deliberately* misdesigned so as to cause misvoting' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Oh here we go, imm alt, people who vote Republican are stupid.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'voting only for the landed classes! Nay, only for the nobility!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'but millions of smart people didnt vote at all' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Starling. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'So much for your neutrality. Step down.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei looks at Starling but draws a blank. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think you misread what I wrote' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'What he's saying is that there are stupid people in both parties. The stupid Republicans found it easier to find their candidate than the stupid democrats due to the ballot design.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The democrats were grasping at "misvotes" in a desperate attempt to salvage their failed campaign. There were no misvotes.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'That doesn't make sense, Majic.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Yes, it does. Because the republican candidate was the top name on the left and the first hole down the middle.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'The democrat candidate was the second name on the left and the third hole down the middle.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's damn hard to not figure out what section you're voting on in a punchcard ballot' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'if you want democracy to work, it should be mandatory to vote' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'And again, if the nitwits had bothered to read, they wouldn't have "misvoted"' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the pic was already posted, http://www.asktog.com/images/palmballot.jpg' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'They didn't bother to read, they get what they get. SORRY, read better next time.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, starling, but the point he's trying to make is that it was easier for the nitwits of one side to find their candidate than the nitwits of the other side, due to poor ballot design, NOT due to republican conspiracy.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No, it wasn't, if everyone had bothered to read there would be absolutely no difference' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'iow, the ballot design in question sucks and shouldn't (and isn't) being used again.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but the problem is that not everyone bothered to read carefully, thus inadvertently skewing the results one way.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If the two names were switched on the ballot, there would've been an estimated 4,000 more votes for Gore and 4,000 less votes for Bush' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That sounds fair to you?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't know about anyone else, but when I vote, I *read* the ballot over, completely, before marking a single item. Every single time. It takes a minute, that is all.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what, you mean it's not okay to make sure that all the dumb people who want to vote for you do, and all those who want to vote for the other guy don't? Perish the thought!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'mandatory voting, btw, is a stupid idea because it'd just result in people going straight down the list marking the top name on the list to get it over with.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Leinei, I would READ the names. It doesn't matter what order they're in. I read them and make sure I understand them first.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if people don't want to vote, making them is just going to skew results in stupid ways.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not how it happens back home. At least, I don't think so.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'You're rather missing the point, Starling, but I'm not sure if it's intentional or not. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No, I'm not' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I don't dispute that Bush won the election as it was held.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'It all comes down to personal responsibility' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Yes. But the lack of personal responsibility affected the democratic voters far more heavily. That is why that ballot design won't be used again, because it skews votes.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Sorry, Granola. :p' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'mis' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Then maybe the democrats should take that up with their idiot constituents' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Or maybe we should just try not to use ballots like that again, since most of the other counties didn't have that issue.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Don't blame the Republicans for Democrats' stupidity.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you see, those who disagree with you have to exercise personal responsibility, but if you agree with me, you don't have to. It's that simple! Why don't you get it?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'When did I blame the republicans?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I blamed the idiot who designed the ballot.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '(who was a democrat)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Or maybe the Democrats should just be arsed to read. And not just the democrats, but all voters. Good fuckin' god, is it really that hard to read a damn ballot?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Apparently, yes.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'And should we continue using the ballots, but put the Republican's name in the place where it's going to get someone accidentally voting for the Random Bullshit party instead?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'But you know, you KNOW, if the situation had been reversed, if it had been Republicans screaming about "misvoting", nobody would have given the least of a damn.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'All I'm saying is that the ballots were stupidly designed and won't be used again. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'err, shouldn't.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'People would have said "stupid republicans, should have learned to read!"' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you wouldn't get the same effect, now that everyone screamed bloody murder over it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course not, only those who disagree with my side should be held to any sort of standard!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'And there are plenty of people who said that about the democrats, and you'd also get plenty of people screaming bloody murder. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because nobody wants to be stupider than the stupidest person from that election by making the same mistake again.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Personally, I don't think "misvoting" affected anything, if people don't read and are stupid then they're just going to mark the wrong thing, regardless of party, and it will be cancelled out. These democrats are just ass-hurt that their lame campaign didn't work, they couldn't just gracefully admit defeat, they had to run it all the way to the Supreme Court and scream "misvote" and "biased system". Typical liberal bullshit.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Pretty much all of your points there are factually incorrect.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yeah, prove it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Sorry, your candidate lost.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'The reason the misvoting affected democrats more is because the Republicans, who wanted to vote for the first name on the list, had to punch the first hole.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'And you know what, ours beat you twice.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Um, Gore wasn't my candidate.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Get. over. it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'The Democrats, who wanted to vote for the second name on the list, had to punch the third hole. That's why.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'And there's not a chance in hell I'd have voted for Gore. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'And as I said, if your constituents are so goddamn dumb that they just blindly vote for the first person on the list, TOO BAD. Take it up with them.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'They're not blindly voting for the first person on the list. That's the Republicans. They're trying to vote for the second person on the list by punching the second hole.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'this kind of reminds me of students arguing over points on a homework... you can point out the errors...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If they had bothered to READ, they would have punched the correct hole.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'They didn't read. TOO BAD.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Starling seems okay with ballot design scams and voting fraud' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Whereas the Republicans didn't have to bother to read.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Bullshit, if the names had been reversed the Republicans still would have won because Republicans are smarter than Democrats.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I am NOT saying that we should overturn the election based on shitty ballots. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Oh, bullshit. Both parties have about an equal percentage of stupid people in them.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yeah, well, our stupid people won and theirs didn't. Too bad!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Again, the point is not to try to overturn the past election. The point is not to use ballots like that again.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'one thing voters tend not to understand on an almost universal scale is that if the item to be voted on is unclear in any way you can have an official come explain it to you. Perhaps we're all too embarassed to let others think we might be more retarded than we realize.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Honestly, there ought to just be a federal ballot standard that is invariable from state to state, locale to locale.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I would agree with you on that, as a matter of fact.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Republicans are shown to be less intelligent because they vote republican' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'So, xyliz, what accounts for your level then?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'democrats print results saying they won...before they won.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'PLUS, I would randomize the order of the names on the ballots.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'heh, that's happened before on multiple parties, hans, people always want to be the first to get the news out.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'dewey wins!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Dewey defeats Truman!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Didn't HAVA mostly eliminate butterfly ballots? I was trying to look it up but can't find anything specific.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Seriously, 1) federal ballot standard, 2) randomized order of names. That should eliminate any effects due to "misvoting"' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Also, news outlets use exit polls and speculate about the winner before the results are official. Mistakes in that sort of reporting happen all the time.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think the federal standard would be enough.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Even though "misvoting" is BULLSHIT and is simply due to FAILURE TO GIVE ENOUGH OF A SHIT TO BE ARSED TO READ.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might as well go the whole hog and introduce instant runoff' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right, but failure to be arsed to read should hurt both parties equally :p' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I guess' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I think the "Help Americans Vote Act" did put in federal standards, and helped fund purchasing new machines.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm reading about it now.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then 5 minutes later the machines got hacked by bored teenagers.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'one of the good things is that now they'll replace your ballot if you realize you fucked it up.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'also if you overvote the system is supposed to tell you 'dude, pick just one'' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then a few years after that, they got hacked again.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'in Florida :)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also, were the Florida ballots printed (partially or wholely) using faint pastel colors and or small print, and were the voting booths poorly lighted ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, diebold has a great track record...good thing they make almost all the ATMs' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No, Zade, the Mexicans were just too stupid' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmmm... I must remember to spend all my euros the next time I stop over in germany, provided they haven't left the euro.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Oh, wait, Floria. I meant Cubans.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Puerto Ricans, too.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there was also all kinds of noise and distraction from all the intimidating gangs' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Fuck Puerto Ricans' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, fuck puerto ricans...some of 'em are hot' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we went to vote on a highway bill or something, and some guy on the democrat side lost an ear!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'high frequency noise above the hearing threshold is know to discombobulate mental processes -- causes the voter to be uncomfortable' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'known' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Does it matter if the noise is digital or analog?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most high frequency generated loud noises are artificial' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what if they're playing digitized frank sinatra?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'analog is better, you can get real close up to the action when they jump out of their skin when they don't realize you're about to shout in their ear.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'They've done studies and found that lots of things influence voters. Flags, colors, people around them.. all sorts of stuff.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and odors, especially odors' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh. like if you smell shit you vote green?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you don't like the smell of old people, petition to have the voting site moved.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Our local spot is in a disability/section 8 apartment building.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'WWF calls for global poverty to save the planet' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'austerity measures?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, poverty' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, that's what the Progressive Movement wants.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'WWF wants the western world to collapse in order to 'save the planet'' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just for that i'd like to go and shoot a panda' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's a Progressive stance. It's just another case of an unrelated organization getting infiltrated.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think the western world provides more resources than the other side - also having so much abundance of actual resources, not being able to participate in them because of money' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'like the Republicans and the Tea Partiers or the Democrats and the Liberals.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if saving the planet means not providing all of those resources, then they're not the only ones - lots of people see destruction as destruction' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'other places, like austria, provide human resources and services, like being laywers, artists, advisors' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and dictators' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and murderers' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and those are jobs worth alot more money than sending a hundred million tonnes of minerals across the ocean, which is managed by an austrian' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it just seems like tyranny to me' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what seems like tyranny to you?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how one country dictates another country, while providing nothing sentient to the world' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they don't have to live with the costs of uranium mining, for instance' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they live somewhere else - and who gets the money from it's trade? not the country you manage' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Diamond Gusset Jeans got it, others don't' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now you know' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '202-224-3121, HCR107, get your congressman to support it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what's the english version?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no english version, that's an american resolution in the american congress' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would make going to war by the president without the consent of congress an impeachable offense' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which it is anyway, but the resolution reinforces it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I can't really agree with that, so no.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why don't you agree with it? it's in the american constitution' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ever known a group of politicians to make quick decisions?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's the point, though' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the whole thing is set up so that the excesses of a bad monarchy won't ruin the country' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a protection that was deliberately put in by the founding fathers' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Holiday in Cambodia. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing patriotic about illegal wars' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'have to admit, he had balls...a man goes into a Walmart in Fenton, MO and scarfs down a beef sausage, an ice cream pop, and a burrito, washing it down with a soda, all in front of a cop, then walked out without paying (arrested).' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'sometimes stupidity looks like balls' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'stupidity would mean he didn't see the cop...in this case, he just didn't care and did it anyways.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The federal reserve bank of Cleveland has a 10 foot thick vault door that weighs 100 tons...' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And no human has entered the vault in 10 years, only robots are allowed inside.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the bank has $120 billion in cash in the vault.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Tyler Durden says God doesn't like the Greeks.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, the greeks worshipped the wrong God :p' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I find it hilarious that the guy who blew up a bunch of credit card skyscrapers is now a financial blogger.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yep, almost impossible to rob a bank now - but that doesn't mean it's impossible for banks to rob everybody else' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the bank gets in the way of the government, and it's citizens rely on it to organize money - and now electronics gets in the way of the bank, and the government, and it's citizens - and provides even less security and more opportunities for fraudulent funding' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm kind of old fashioned about it, i think when people put their money in a bank then that's where it should stay, maybe bank transfers could be done directly by a government service, with offices around the world' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'unfortunately money these days is WAY more complicated than that' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'investment and stuff in anonymous companies for more money's attracticve to people though' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'it's pretty easy getting rich. Just write 10 stupid songs and publish it... You are rich. Or invent a medical techno thingy and there you go....or best!!become corrupted.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I mean repeating 3 words in a song for 4 min and 25 seconds and people go crazy about it. See? Simple.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think most rich people actually earned their money themselves, sometimes they might be representitives of private interest groups and things like that' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'music, I play it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's all about HOW you say it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'some of the billionairres and other rich people just seem too unlikely, comparatively to all the failures of the world, to have accumulated that on their own' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'what you say is of course, important as well, but the subliminals of it, the taste and subtleties, even a shitty pop song has it right' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'reading the people and giving them what they want' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you can do it, then do it and get paid, why not?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I guess so. If you really poor and incredibly lazy, and no care for life kill a dude very gruesomely and plead insane.... They'll book you into a mental hospital and do nothing.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well that's a whole different thing' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'those people are deeply sick in the head' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'one thing the news indicates is that the people who ran greece (somehow tied to canada's economy) transferred most of their private wealth to foreign banks that wouldn't be affected by greek financial problems, and then passed the debt on to the citizens they 'possibly' betrayed, and that's what makes people angry about it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'austerity measures and things like that, sounds almost like holodomor to some' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'banks and technology and government and rich people.. and the news' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the richest guy in the world got that way from owning the largest cell phone monopoly in mexico, thanks to the mexican govt that keeps competitors out.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'simplified, that's just what i understood from watching the media over the last while' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'True... But look at it this way. Opening 4 bank accounts within each account R1000 or $1000 etc and let it lie for a couple years... By the time you see fit to leave the place, after you done convincing, you would have a steady living. I think.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most people who inherit their money own muni and corporate bonds so that they can keep the inheritence, and have low income taxes.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most of those inheritences are in the form of family trusts.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and what legitimate government would support oppression of greek civilians, who were possibly betrayed by their government - that did business with the legitimate governments, who might host some of the banks they transferred to' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they're themselves not their government, the debt the government racked up, without evidence of 'memorandum of understanding' their willfull participation in national debt' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'having chosen to ignore the solutions to erronous spending, which possibly weren't offered' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'situations like that just bother me, because of how they appear to be' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more people should buy muni and corporate bonds.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i like when criminal activity is kept to other than governments' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so does everyone, really' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'especially the government officials who are criminals' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'It sounds more like conspiracies than facts. I guess the government is corrupted, (SA-Zuma differently corrupted, let them trace me...bring on the heat. I'll slap him with tampons) ... Try me;) ... My point be ... Who can prove anything if none ever looks at the records and see simple flaws. Numbers can easily make people get lost in riddles.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you let it turn you into a fanatic, you become paranoid' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which is a weapon that they will use against you' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so no use getting too twisted up about it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm amazing sometimes by what things they keep statistics on and what things they avoid/don't publicize or make issues out of, but seem to know about anyways' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'amazed*' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they sometimes take the most unlikely and outrageous research studies and make them the biggest hit in a decade, but then what they ignore really made sense but wasn't worth their time' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's disrespectful to lots of people, like corporate scientists in canada claiming that something deathlike is really not deathlike, with witness testimony (maybe they live somewhere for 40 years and everything's fine until corporation moves in) not warranting a government interest in whether or not corporation is dealing crookedly with the population' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they put it on the news and no followups, no verification by environmental protection agency, etc - and there's one place in the country that's no longer inhabitable ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'people need a bunker.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'instead they'll route people's interest towards whether or not the politician has a beard, how much of an issue gay rights are , etc' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'learn how to coupon really well, and fill your bunker with free food.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'gay rights are no issue, give them the same rights as we have so that we can all be human' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no debate about it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't have anything against homosexuals, they're fine with me - but gay rights versus carbon capture projects that erode the soil, kill foliage, poison the water table, kill animals on the surface and stuff, and generally make living on the surface of the earth, homosexual or not, doable seems like a no-brainer' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but there is one thing to remember about all of this government bullshit' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'their problems are some shit that we can't comprehend' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but politicians don't make issues out of real issues, just no-consequence things like homosexuality - which is dealt with harshly in other places - that's true, but shouldn't be much of a problem here' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the kind of shit that would eat ulcers in you and give you heart disease if you had to deal with it on a regular basis' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'where you have to pick the least ugly answer among a list of answers that are all ugly, with the lives of millions of people at stake' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i don't know all about what their purposes and things are, globally as governments, but i don't think most people benefit from their plans' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and you literally do not have time to give an uninformed populace a detailed primer on the political situation so that they can understand why you are doing what you are doing' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's just your job to fix it with as little noise as possible' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the government should have secrets from the people' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I'm fucking glad I don't have to deal with that shit, myself, that's why I don't work for them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think the primer should be available, making sense out of the control structure they live in' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'why some people have and some don't, etc' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'dude, they couldn't even if you laid it out for them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they're not-crooked and are doing the right thing, why do they have to hide that fact so deep?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not everyone is really equipped to handle dealing with the kind of forces that hold nations and worldwide politics together' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it takes years to get broken to the ugly, nasty necessities of making things work' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rizgoth fondly fondles a donkey. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and not everyone should shoulder THAT burden' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no? but everybody's affected by it to some degree' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'are you saying santa clause is real?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I had him ignored for a while.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'santa claus is real' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'this is what I'm talking about' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how can i verify that leader is making valid decisions if i can't see what he's considering?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, the government will always have secrets, there will always be some bullshit, you just have to pick the important bullshit and realize that you will not, and should not know what the whole enchilada is' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's a severely fucked up enchilada' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'where sometimes you have to murder people with good intentions just to keep the world together' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'where his only sin was coming at the problem the wrong way, not the veracity of his solution' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and the secrets and bullshit, are they there solely to arrest control of the world for their children, and themselves?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I wouldn't wish that on anyone living in the country, let them have their lives, and let the government deal with awful secrets as best as it can' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i can see secret agents and things gathering intelligence, instead of causing intelligence that is later gathered' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'in the end, if you can still mostly live in a country, it's mostly all right, that's all government is for, keeping shit in line so that we can all live our stupid little lives' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's a kind of government system that i can see being neccessarily hidden' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and that's the Word.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think people who are the government should be able to do real work like everybody else, they don't though - they basically have fun and that's their job, offering their signature to paper's they're handed, which might send you to war' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'empathetic leaders aren't too numerous these days' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and what empathy they focus on is usually only considered for the purpose of gaining control over a percentage of the population' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like obama and homosexuality, was it a national concern of high priority like pollution and how to survive, or a social convenience that is already widely accepted' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think it's fine if they say ok, they can be legally married but why not talk about things that most people don't see as questions' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'it's an issue of social justice where a very large percentage of the population believe that homosexuality makes you subhuman' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if sacrifices must be made, then show the national resources, including idle hands and what can be produced from the soil by the people for themselves' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and really make them understand why sacrifices must be made, that hidden politics stuff' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't know, i wasn't saying anything bad about obama though, in canada and what they seem to ignore here's more what i think of' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I actually think there's more empathy among government leaders than not' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's the pragmatic details of the actual job that crushes people' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'to change the system, you have to work with the system' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then the system changes you' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and if you are strong enough to still go after what you came here for, then maybe you can get something done' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but it's a big system, it eats dreams and shits reality' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'gotta be real fucking strong to move the world' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Las Vegas just finished a $2.4 billion airport expansion that adds a 3rd terminal to the international airport.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'couldn't they have explained to young females that they're more than sex objects and restraint until abortion isn't required is a alright thing to do?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'VEGAS BABY!' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'learning your own worth past your sexuality is just part of being adolescent' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'instead they use promiscuous sex to justify a form of homicide, which is a question to people' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'even in ancient times there were whores and courtesans' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you have to learn to recognize what is part of life' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: '"they" aren't always fucking us over, when you see injustice in the world' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's a big ass classroom is what it is, only once you graduate you're still there in school' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'either you become a teacher, or you quit going to class' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they should have one with the other at least, i think' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there is no they' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'just us' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how do you respect a guy living in the community, who earns his money by selling women for sex, to you for your money?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you don't' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Investing in infrastructure is always a good investment.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is that guy' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that whole situation seems impossible to me' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are plenty of people who uphold what is good' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'why don't I?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you just don't let those who don't smear shit in your mind over the rest of the humble, honest, hardworking people who do care' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's like meeting one slutty bitch and then calling all women whores' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not true' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'assuming here that the man is merely a broker facilitating the transaction of sex for money, surely he deserves to make a percentage' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's just what you saw, out of a tiny segment of a huge thing that you can't really see all of' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or you can, but the more you look the more you see you in it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like raising morality and incentives to abstain from promiscuous sex, instead of glorifying the practice in just about every tv show and commercial on television' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'kids are impressionable before they have abortions' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'fuck commercials' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's an intelligence test right there, listening to commercials' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Delta airlines has finalized its purchase of an oil refinery.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'smart move for them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i can't either agree or disagree with abortion, but i do see it as a form of homicide' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not an easy choice for any woman who cares' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'an abortion clinic is better than a coathanger' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'in what way is it homicide?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'bottom line.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's willfully killing a person that's growing, isn't it?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'you are killing a homosapien' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh this angle of the issue is useless to debate' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'we were once that, egg+sperm and then the growing' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'it's willingly disrupting the growth of a cluster of living tissue that is not a person' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's just an attempt to rationalize a way past the inescapable emotionally painful choice of whether or not to bring the child into the world' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'at what point do you believe personhood begins?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just egg or just sperm i don't see as a person, but together when they start to grow i think that's a person' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I would say, once you get to the third trimester it's pretty fucked up' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you should have decided earlier' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'how is it a person when it has none of the qualities that would define being a person' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you had 6 months after all' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you'd have to arrest all the deadbeat mothers who aren't taking care of themselves during pregnancy, and nobody really even wants to go near that can of worms.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Cambodia: that's illegal already' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly, I can agree with that at least' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so it's still questionable to me, it's growing inside it's mother and lots of them think that's grounds enough to consider it not a person, cause it's not born yet' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'they think it's not a person because it isn't yet a person' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i imagine it's not easy for them to have abortions though, and this world isn't the most inviting place as it is' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but women are going to have abortions no matter what you say or do, or what laws you make or what propaganda you put out, or what you feel about it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'not because it happens to be growing inside of them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and if there is no healthy way for them to do it, they will find an unhealthy way, and should a woman be punished like that for making a mistake like that?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'once its detached from the uterus, then its a person? how trivial' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'at least provide a healthy way and leave the moral question to the woman getting the abortion' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there is no intellectual way to "solve" abortion, because it's not an intellectual issue' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's emotional' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'imo personhood can't be said to begin before consciousness' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'fetuses are conscious' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you don't even start forming long term memories until you turn 3 or so' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'protip: fetuses are not conscious ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'they can learn in utero' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'spiritually, I think of it as being in an airport, waiting for your flight to Life...and your flight gets delayed' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i know what you're saying about healthy and unhealthy, basically the same arguement as why cannabis is illegal and why to legalize + tax it, except it's different cause it's a matter of verifiable life and death' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then you just wait around in the land of the unborn until you find someone who wants to take care of you' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no it's not' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(although, it's not life yet according to some)' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's something that you can't abolish in any way possible' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Modi: what can they learn?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you can only practice damage control' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I sure do hope sales tax is applied to abortions.....' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'like trying to tell people not to fuck, it's hilarious and stupid' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lol riz' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'its perhaps the most rapid period of learning in the whole of life' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ol' Dirty Fiendish laughs out loud at Modi. T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't know about that, but the government has funded viagra programs, sex change operations, contraceptives and plenty of things' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they can fund all they want to' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are certain things that people are just going to do, no matter what consequences you set' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I think we can get very fundamental about this, but it requires willing participation and a bit of time. what is your definition of life?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we can debate from now until the death of the Sun about what is and isn't life, and when abortion is and isn't murder and it doesn't matter at all' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because the truth is that if a woman does not want her child, she will get rid of him' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or her' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'or it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'sure' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i said it's questionable to me, i wasn't asserting one way or the other - partly so that i could ask the question of 'how come just about every tv commercial and program' or lots of other media, contains sexually suggestive behaviour on it?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'because they want to sell you something' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'frankly, these days I don't really care what commercials say, or why they say them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and what are they doing to weed the general psychology of repetition out of people, to prevent them having abortions in the first place, cause maybe they made better choices' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'YOU CAN'T.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you never, ever will' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'never.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we're not here because we're perfect' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I am' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we're here because we're stupid, and have to learn how to live' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's a level of flaw upheld by the government though' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, it's a level of flaw accepted by the government' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the government must be ultimately pragmatic about certain things, like I've been saying' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the government's a man-made creation like mathematics, it's supposed to provide solutions to problems' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it is supposed to keep shit in line' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'while democratically considering it's citizens and their priorities' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you need to find your own solutions' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'everyone does' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'thinking that the government is supposed to solve your problems is a stupid thing to think' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'at best, they can help you with your own solutions' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'at BEST.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'that's right because drugs solve problems! It's just a matter of which for the problem you have' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'everytime you kicked your mother's womb you were learning how to walk, every noise you heard was processed' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'of course' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'honoring a child that you want is so much different than the question of abortion' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you have a spouse that you love, and you want a child, that is a whole different thing' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you are a single mother with no support, impregnated by a man that is worthless, and you love children, then you find yourself in the position, humbly considering the circumstances of your life and what you would want to provide for a child that you love, of having to kill a child, because you love children' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think the government should solve my problems, unless they cause them in the first place' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I will absolutely not ever pretend to have anything to say to a woman in that position about what she should do.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ever.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'common problems though, those are in the governments domain, aren't they?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is a thing I will never have to deal with in my life, not really.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the world is older than the government and even people, as a living creature from the world we're expected to live underneath the rule book of the rich government, whose #1 priority is making very few people rich beyond comparison at the expense of everybody else, and that seems like a crime to me - unless equal opportunity is offered in the world, and it's not - just like slavery, there is no natural way to survive except to serve them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they're not god, they're not justice, they're injustice' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they need lawyers who specialize in lies to defend the obvious corruption in court, as neccessary' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's how they look from here anyways, i'm not the only one who thinks that' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'education for instance, and outsourcing for monetary gains' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh well you do what you can' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I'm going to play some music, it's been fun.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'rock hard' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'always.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'education should be free for people so that they can do something with their lives, at least sponsored by the government - the more professionally educated people there are the less you have to import from somewhere else, who might be working for a foreign government' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's almost like national security isn't it?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and money, if you put all them idle people to work, cause you built employment opportunities for them, and produced things you used to import - then they'd be able to afford stuff and you wouldn't have to be destroyed by foreign economic crises' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I believe in affordable education, but you have to balance that against people that will sign up and not put forth any effort, wasting educational resources' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you could define money for your own nation, instead money is used as an excuse why sacrifices must be made' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people go into debt for 750,000 dollars to afford a condominium in vancouver, where there's employment opportunity - china's about the size of alberta and saskatchewan combined, which are maybe a quarter or less of canada's surface area' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and there's 1.5 billion people on that area in china, but with all of this abundance, lots of canadians just can't afford to have their own space' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it just seems rediculous to me' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, people who aren't serious about their education aren't impossible to spot' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'as long as they want to try and figure something out though, then i don't see why they're prevented from it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there might be some neuroscientists and other people like that, who used to be in high demand' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so maybe they lobby against education' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and a 'nation' of people should be in the know on what the government's considering pertaining to their well-being, and the government should be held accountable to the people it rules over, which is easier when they understand what it's doing - i think it's sort of like national security, like educating your own professionals from your own land instead of importing them from a foreign land' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what i think anyways, the world doesn't share my thoughts' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'some of those professionals who lobby against education are just laughing at all the foolish lands they eat for free in, being indespensable assets, as their closed source degree's show' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's probably not all easy though, just sometimes they make it look like it is' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'chinese gynaecologists for instance, they fly over to america and canada and molest women, doesn't it seem unlikely that you can apply for a work visa to study vagina's in a foreign nation?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i read of a couple cases of chinese gynaecologists is all, i'm not saying it's local to china' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what was wrong with education system that they couldn't have had plenty of training available for somebody born in canada?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe even a female' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or brain chemistry - they import doctors from arabic nations and anywhere else but providing their own, to test their chemicals on citizens here' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'try and get a degree in brain chemistry, i haven't seen many who were born in canada' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'who's inspecting the drugs then? ' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Canada fails to adapt its social assistance benefits and minimum wage to the rising costs of basic necessities, including food and housing, he added. Food banks are not a solution but a symptom of failing social safety nets. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/16/pol-un-canada-food-security.html The Conservative government struck early, with Immigration Minister Jason Kenney suggesting De Schutter is wasting his organization's money by visiting a developed country.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'at least real issues are sometimes looked at, i appreciate news that makes sense' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'looking at the article you almost get the impression that the government is an issue' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't expect anything good to come of it though, lots of people have pointed out corruption in the government, or what they see as corruption - and nothing's ever done about it, not even an answer on why it's not corrupt - it's almost like the government is the will of almighty god and the human trash is being taken out' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '"The right to food is about politics. Itbs not about technicalities. Itbs a matter of principle and itbs a matter of political will. I think these comments are symptomatic of the very problem that it is my duty to address," he said.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'At the same time, consumers are trying to re-educate themselves about where their food comes from, because much of it isn't grown locally, he said. Many farmers have to work off-farm to earn a living or export all their product to other countries to survive.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i just ate 3 strawberries that were the size of baseballs, but it's not growth hormones on animals at least' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and farmers make almost nothing for providing food for people to eat, which they just can't afford to purchase' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'bought up by foreigners and people who don't care who lives and dies, as long as it's not them' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not caring is one thing, but enforcing is another - whoever's behind that is my idea of a criminal' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'stalin's russia and farmers were just about the same thing, i wonder which book they go on, probably not mein kampf' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'he was a bit more direct in his extermination though' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulak it's just something i remember, it's possibly applicable to government's surviving world war 2' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'All kulaks were divided into three categories: (I) to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police - (II) to be sent to Siberia, North, the Urals or Kazahstan, after confiscation of their property - and (III) to be evicted from their houses and used in labour colonies within their own districts. OGPU secret police chief, Efim Georgievich Evdokimov, (1891-1939) organized and supervised the roundup of peasants and the mass executions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if that's all real like they're saying, then that's actions taken by a surviving government from world war 2 that affects international policy today' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'conspiracy theories about negative government enemy plots aren't always unfounded' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Clarify negative government. This sounds like a good thing.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'bad for society as a whole?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'genocide can't be really beneficial for most people, can it?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they turned away from those kind of genocidal policy's though, that's a possibility but it takes faith to believe it' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'You raise an interesting proposition. Science would probably support the mass extinction of humanity as a positive ecological outcome.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's one reason that the government's secrecy over why it does what it does, and stuff like that, is bothersome' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, science could - i think that alot of people in the world today do negative things un-naturally though, through social conditioning and enforcement from above' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if that wasn't the case and people were just pure evil by default, then i wouldn't see much of a problem with just watching it all go down, like a scientist - but since it's not, it almost appears criminal' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's alot of decisions that the government (or maybe corporation) makes for people, and they're not always in people's best interest' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Perhaps you should examinr the precepts of natural thinking' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lots of people see the government as a undesireable oppressive tyrant that is a hypocrite' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and i don't understand why the government doesn't set their minds at ease to some degree, teaching them to reach their understanding on issues, showing that they aren't working in the darkness' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'They are simply conditioned to think that to conceal the more hideous truth.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'at least, that's my impression from reading through the news and watching the media, reading some of what people have on their minds' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what do you think the more hideous truth is?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Tht is your problem, you are impressionable. Remain steadfast, ignore external input, follow the prime directive.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'live long and prosper? :>' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'There can be no interference with the internal development of alien civilizations.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'But there has been. Stay out of it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'america possibly has a history of evil government atrocity's against it's own citizens too, i'm not sure if any of the world's governments didn't conduct at least one genocide-like crime - it's a pretty universal phenomenon from what i looked through' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'who knows though, it's possible that there's a decent one out there - there's a little island country off the coast of australia for instance' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i heard about' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and then governments might change their minds sometimes, instead of being stuck within the same ideologies as the 1920's' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'America has not actually wiped out any other nation. We still have indians among us, which is the closest we've come to genocide.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Chemosh agrees! T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'America's top military officer has condemned a course taught about Islam at one of America's top military schools as "totally objectionable". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18030105 it's pretty terrible to think that the government isn't aware of where taxes are spent in paying for these schools' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how hard is the IRS on people? they're not on top of things' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i just seen it on the news the other day and tried to make sense out of it - and being an ally of saudi arabia i couldn't' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think that's what they call eachother anyways, ally, that's a nation with lots of islamic people in it - and there's lots of islamic people in the world - i'm not convinced one way or the other whether or not their belief system turns them into bad people, but i think there's more to people than just that - but apparently ("according to the article") they don't care to make many distinctions in people who serve the government' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Simply because you have not been briefed on the activity of Gog and Magog. You cannot expect to make sense of it.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you think this fits into the book of revelation? there are some verses that can support that' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'That was a very veiled look at the situation from long ago. Tactical reports are current and up to date. But yo will never see them.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you realize that the Bible is just a political allegory decrying the woes of the current society, yes?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Agreed' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'And establishing a control structure over the unlearned masses.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'doesn't sound much different than 'hitler youth' programs remembered on history tv - although i didn't study that in depth, just the idea of a school that teaches you who to hate based on a trait, like being in islam or jewish or from the middle east, or cause they don't have much money and they drain your bank account for their greedy poverty' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that was always the case, and definitely something that predates anything even remotely connected to Christianity.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Agreed, consider my clan, e.g.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even the druids used that tactic, and it predates anything remotely related to them, too.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't believe that just because somebody's human they'll do and act just like every other human, or whatever thing about humans there is in the world - just cause you're born in hell doesn't mean you're going to be a demon' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'No. But accept that you are controlled by the information made available to your intellect. Pawn.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'here is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. We can roll the image, make it flutter. We can change the focus to a soft blur or sharpen it to crystal clarity. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your television set.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the outer limits, they have some cool sayings in that show sometimes' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'It was a meager attempt to break through and communicate, It was widely rejected.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'An experiment permitted only because it was assumed it would fail, and it did,' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Consensus was that no violation of the Prime Directive had been committed.' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there is no Prime Directive. Life in the universe is all "beat ass or STFU".' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Not the Prime Directive then, but rather the Prime DiRECTUM?' T3/r6/2012-05-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'US Indian Removal Act of 1830 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything interesting ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'serious for a sec - anyone follow metal prices ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'non ferrous ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'suggest a prog that will ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'doesn't everyone have a guy that does that for them' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'oh wait, you're after "that guy"' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ave Sneak no after a program - BOB does a good job I thought I'd extend the reach of the battery ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'looking for a feed for metal prices ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'oh, cant help there' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'guy that does the dump run here also trades metals - thought I'd give him a hand ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sneak gets a blank look on his face. T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'paper trading on minerals you don't actually "own" ....' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you are familiar with the concept of selling metals at a variable price ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'yes.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'poor bastard just gets it n sells it - at what ever the market price is - he should stockpile it and sell high ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I wanna help him ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'how do I do that - some stockmarket progs notify on a certain level price being reached ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'someone have experience with that ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'yeh but the probably doesn't have high enough amount to really properly dictate priceanyway' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'when you're trading low amounts, you get pinched on sale price' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah I went through the volume issues with him - he is actually viable - he just needs to know when to sell - there should be an app for it ? ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is getting screwed atm ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when he sells he does so on a price dictated by market value and then an additional fixed cost for processing ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'he can stockpile and sell on market highs - he just needs an easy way to know when to sell ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'he is a semi comp literate dude - caught uo with him this morn n thought I'd help him out ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sneak who he sells to indexes from the market - he just needs to know when to sell - what is the easiest way he can do this ? he is gonna need a prog to tell him when the price spikes ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Earth's climate and atmosphere have varied greatly over geologic time. Our planet has mostly been much hotter and more humid than we know it to be today, and with far more carbon dioxide (the greenhouse gas) in the atmosphere than exists today. The notable exception is 300,000,000 years ago during the late Carboniferous Period, which resembles our own climate and atmosphere like no other.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'another interesting thing: for most of the existence of the solar system, we did not have a breathable atmosphere!' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: '"breathable" according to whom?' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for most the existence of the solar system, we weren't even there!' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'For some organisms, hydrogen sulfide is just fine.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, to mammals, anyway' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Mammals didn't exist until late into the Jurassic' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Er, Mesozoic' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and humans weren't around till recently, as far as geologic times scales are concerned...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '200 million years ago the co2 concentrations in the atmosphere was 4.7 times higher than today.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Carboniferous Period and the Ordovician Period were the only geological periods during the Paleozoic Era when global temperatures were as low as they are today. To the consternation of global warming proponents, the Late Ordovician Period was also an Ice Age while at the same time CO2 concentrations then were nearly 12 times higher than today-- 4400 ppm. According to greenhouse theory, Earth should have been exceedingly hot. Instead, global temperatures were no warmer than today. Clearly, other factors besides atmospheric carbon influence earth temperatures and global warming.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'carbon sinks hold a lot of carbon...guess why the Carboniferous Period was named as it was? ;P' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It would seem to me that mountain ranges, ocean currents, and wind currents would be just as important as co2 concentrations when determining the avg temp on the planet.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they are more important.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'many factors influence temperatures. However, we do know CO2's absorbtion spectrum.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and we do know that if we add CO2, we will have CO2 higher than it otherwise would have been, leading to temperatures higher than it otherwise would have been' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's basic physics, really' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The earth has processes that remove carbon dioxide, however, and as atmospheric CO2 increases, those processes work at a faster rate.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'So, it's not as simple as "More CO2 = higher temperatures."' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes, that's why the stats are needed to try to figure out those processes' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but still, the concentration would be higher than it otherwise would have been' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'A lot of the CO2 isn't even solveable via more efficient vehicles btw. A lot of it is volcanic, and a lot is due to coal/peat fires.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'climate change due to man's co2 emmisions is just a wheeze to control us and tax us' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't they recently put co2 back on top as the worst-ever greenhouse gas, due to new findings that show more co2 has been locked away in oceans and peat beds than we thought?' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you have two processes, obeying dx/dt = some function, the one that starts higher will remain higher...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: '"worst greenhouse gas" is an ambiguous definition' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some continuous function in terms of x, that is' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Two special conditions of terrestrial landmass distribution, when they exist concurrently, appear as a sort of common denominator for the occurrence of very long-term simultaneous declines in both global temperature and atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2), 1) The existence of a continuous continental landmass stretching from pole to pole, restricting free circulation of polar and tropical waters, and 2) The existence of a large (south) polar landmass capable of supporting thick glacial ice accumulations.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Worst in terms of quantity? Worst in terms of produceability? Worst in terms of how much heat it retains? What?' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'methane is worse than co2.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, regardless, we know that adding co2 will add to temperature...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in terms of impact, I think. Methane is more potent, but a sufficient amount of co2 can swing the balance towards the less potent part.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if co2 was a genuine problem, they'd be planting forests/encouraging the rain forests rather than standing idly buy letting some greasy brazilian twats chops it all down' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if methane wasnt worse, they wouldnt be flaring the natgas when they produce oil.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Anyway, I'm going to dinner, "global warming" is a crock, I don't believe it, and I couldn't give less of a shit about my so-called "carbon footprint." Enjoy.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it's quite a stretch to hope that the feedback function changes so quickly as to produce a very stable equilibrium' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'pretty hypocritical to say 'we chopped down all of our forests, to fund our industry, but now we realized that was bad so you can't fund your industry.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've got the higest forest coverage since 1900' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Which isnt saying much since the forest coverage is 40% lower than it was 8000 years ago.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm with starling on this one, it's a crock, it's a far more immediate issue poisoning the world with chemicals and fartarsing around with genetics without considering ecological damage' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, our has been steadily increasing ... but we don't need the land the forests are on, really. ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'however, as with anything else, those removed from the immediate needs are more likely to decry others taking steps to obtain those needs.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, any country with leaders who aren't anti-intellectual and which has a physics department ought to know we're (going to be) pretty much screwed by now...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure we do. I mean, where else are we going to grow our weed?' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'almost 60% of US wood comes from tree farms now.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'i.e. rich white people in america are a lot more concerned about conservation of tigers than a senegalese guy armed only with a stick.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(next some of your trolls are going to be denying ecocide and species extinction and saying there are more species differentiation since 1900)' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I wouldnt exactly call a tree farm a forest though.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'poisoning the ground with chemicals is a local pollution problem, at least...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'species die out without our help' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'xyliz, in many countries tree coverage IS higher since 1900, although a lot of it is in managed farms. ' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we've lost 30% of our biodiversity since like 3pm two weeks ago.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'd like our own to survive, at least.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'evolve or die.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or just be smart enough not to kill yourself' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if your a species that depends on ice to survive, then you need to adapt to a world with less ice, or die out.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'guy stabs self in stomach. "eh, if I deserve to live, I'll live"' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's religion, not evolution.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you need ice, go to the south pole' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ice cap there is growing' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, didn't the climate change lobby mention that?' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tsk, more lies and or arrogance by callous perverts' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must've slipped their mind' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder how much ice, if any there will be around there in a century...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'planet temperature is pretty stable' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, seeing as how thick it is, I suspect it will be there long after you die.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'only on the one side, which means it's adding to Earth's wobble and will ultimately slide off Antarctica to produce the first-ever extinction-level tsunami.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'recent documentary atated that antarctica is sloughing of huge ice masses' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and in fact, the antarctic has been losing ice pretty rapidly' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Weddell Sea area's thinning out' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the facts don't bare that out, sonshi' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'really? On average, the antactic as a whole has been losing ice' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(antarctic)' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, while the arctic has been losing ice cover, the antarctic has been pretty stable.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they could've picked an easier to type name...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, pretty stable if you look at it in human time scales' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'greenland has been losing ice cover as well, and that is the one that will affect us the most in the future.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, the Weddell area is thinning out so much they're worried it will stop scraping bottom, causing large pieces to break off.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/04/17/revealed-antarctic-ice-growing-not-shrinking/' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the story was let loose either earlier this week or late last week, actually.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty like it' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yeah, things will change' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, whatever certain people like to believe, it has been losing ice...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which doesn't bode well for sea levels' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whatever is happening, it isn't due to the car you drive' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so screwing everyone over with taxes and laws won't help' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the ice is so thick and heavy that the center of greenland has been pushed under sealevel, parts of antarctica is the same.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'killing one civilian isn't a massacre either... unless the other millio troops with you are doing the same' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, there are websites supporting creationism - likely also supported by republican nutters' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about it' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in any case you can't really argue the laws of physics here...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'democrats want to teach 1st-graders how to masturbate. You can't really call the republicans nutty after stuff like that.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the republicans, and oil companies, and their supporters, are blatant liars' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are some that even believe the democrats and republicans are different' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'democrats too.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whereas both want the downfall of liberty and freedom' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You can thank gravity for all that ice breaking off the antarctica ice sheets, that ice moving into the ocean is thousands of years old, and probably much older.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they are what they are, and the fact is that co2 absorbs more of the energy from emission spectra of black bodies in our normal room-temperature range than black bodies in the sun's temperature range.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even the independants sell the snake oil when it suits their purposes.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as a percentage' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'republican supporters might be christians, but the power behind the throne certainly isn't' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's the sort of thing you can go out and verify yourself with the appropriate equipment, you don't have to take anyone's word for it' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody was saying co2 wasn't a greenhouse gas' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bleh, you could triple the co2 in the atmosphere, and very little would change.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'thing is, we can estimate how much co2 will increase in the absence of feedback effects, and how much of an increase to temperature that will cause in the absence of feedback effects. What's up for debate is how strong the feedback effects are, and in which direction' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps canada will produce even more wheat than they do now, as would russia, and the US could grow more light golden wheat.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the "very little would change" would only occur if the equilibrium was somehow unbelievably stable, that is, that the feedback effects would somehow change drastically with just a small change.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wishful thinking, in other words' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we already grow too much as it is. We're paying food-preparation engineers to avoid preparing food.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and "we hope that the increase in production in some areas outweighs the decrease in other areas" thing is also... well, I wouldn't bet our future on that sort of hope.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'especially since there's a danger it could knock out key parts of our food cycle. Imagine if it took out the bees...' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe republicans believe in replacements -- perhaps an abundance of black flies may pollinate flowers while also feasting on humans (preferably republicans)' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Earth undergoes alternating periods of ice ages and warming whenever a continuous continental landmass extends from one polar region to the other while at the same time there exists a large polar continent capable of supporting thick ice accumulations. These conditions existed 300 million years ago during the Carboniferous Period as they do for the Earth today. However for most of geologic history the distribution of the continents across the globe did not satisfy this criteria. Continental drift continually rearranges the continents, moving at rates of only a few centimeters per year.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'Continental drift was the idea posed by Alfred Wegener in the mid 1890's.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'Continental drift is the idea that all the continents are very slowly moving over time.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We are actually in an ice age climate today. However for the last 10,000 years or so we have enjoyed a warm but temporary interglacial vacation. We know from geological records like ocean sediments and ice cores from permanent glaciers that for at least the last 750,000 years interglacial periods happen at 100,000 year intervals, lasting about 15,000 to 20,000 years before returning to an icehouse climate. We are currently about 18,000 years into Earth's present interglacial cycle. These cycles have been occurring for at least the last 2-4 million years, although the Earth has been cooling gradually for the last 30 million years.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'Based on scientific evidence that the coast of Africa fits into the coast of South America and the fossilized plant Glossopteris found in different continents, this theory id proved correct.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kezora: 'How fast do you type, Rizgoth?' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'depends on my mood, but usually 60 to 100 wpm.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ALT-TAB and CTRL-C/CTRL-P is very fast.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but yes, cut n paste does work wonders when I need to paste a big paragraph.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I just think it is interesting that humans have become the dominent species on the planet during an interglacial period, and that we have advanced so far in that amount of time, mostly in the last 300 years or so.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we were controlling our environment and destroying species long before the rennaissance kicked in.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It also annoys me that we allowed religious to hold us back for so long, ie the dark ages, science should be nurtured.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'religions that is.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in many ways, we haven't yet regained what we lost when the Roman Empire fell.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Sure would be nice to know what was in the library of alexandria.' T3/r6/2012-05-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I agree... Had such thoughts before.' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can brob still hold a convo - just a mushroom atm - anyone ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol anyone wanna case study ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'huh?' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '42' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wanna converse ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, at work' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what work ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'employment' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is the great work not far behind ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, trying to get stuff together and some land bought before it all comes down' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you are either gonna trade out n cash in b4 the big one or you believe that common law will protect you ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'details ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'become self sufficient as far as possible and fortify up, hope they leave me alone' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and help like-minded people' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we played Risk as a fam a long time ago - was always tinned meat n shotguns for russia' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you leave out healthcare .. ever seen a movie called Red Dawn ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but heard a lot of references to it' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthcare is an issue' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'train up now - there are surgical fixes for the basics that are backyard but many pittfalls - the pitfalls kill mosr field treated imo ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'getting asthma meds will be the trickiest' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Buteko method ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can stock pile, would prefer to learn how to manufacture' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sp? but find it - takes care of that ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ew high end manufacture too ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you will need to be armed armored mobile and organised - labs will tie you down ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'again it is basic hyperventilation - coupled with sensitivity ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol in a "the world goes to 5hit" situation your biggest threat is the military anywy ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you will be pressed ganged into service ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'peahaps research tinpot african states ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'were we talking the end of the world somewhere herr ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that aws inviting ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'meh - get more se outta the mirrios atm - sick of the sight of me tho ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone - soz insomniaaaaaa - vit B dose ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what did the Nazis' do right ?' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'always a showstopper ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Greece leaves the EU all markets down atm\' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'id greece officially no longer using the euro?' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'Airlines should be liable for diseases caught en route, since their air recirculating practices are profit driven. Discuss.' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i think their security practices and lack of safe distance between patrons forced to stand in line should be to blame' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'That is not an airline practice and the government is immune from such legal action' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'not if its due to negligence or a willful neglect on the part of a officer of the government' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when Americans are on the plane, they usually are. Gotta love the right to sue the pants off people.' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'they can still sue the head of a particular airport, or branch ' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'they just will have a uphill battle.' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'Try it,. Thanks for playing.' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'ynys nah, it costs so much to sue in federal courts' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and they get super picky about dollar values too' T3/r7/2012-05-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'Precisely.' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Wil Smith accosted by slobbering homodouchefag ukranian -- Chernobyl looks good on those perverts' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Hugh Laurie's band requires songs with a decent tunes, decent lyrics, decent arrangements -- was borderline mediocre on a talkshow yesterday morning. some authors use ghostwriters -- Hugh Laure may require more singing lessons and or decent ghostsingers' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxch-yi14BE' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US Navy has 14 trident nuclear submarines capable of leveling 100 cities each.' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so when it is taken to court and proven that Obama was born in Kenya, not Hawaii, what will happen?' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'pretty sure that's not a triable issue' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'can't be proven, records just weren't kept well back then' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's not eligible for office, though' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade votes to euthanise republican moroos T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? of course records were kept back then' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I didn't say records weren't kept' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surely nwo could find an american born graduate to champion?' T3/r7/2012-05-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'George W Bush looked like Alfred E Neuman ("What, me worry?!")' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so I dropped an l' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Pot is the best drug in the world. It has the best effect, it's relatively inexpensive, it's nontoxic, and it's noncaloric.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'Which is worst? Burning to death or drowning?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'badeep' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everybody poops, and if they don't they're an android and should be destroyed' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'with if they have a colostomy?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization was a class-based holocaust, with ethnicity's and other minority's possibly a side-effect, from what i understand (assuming this really happened)- should we be on the lookout for stuff like this in the future? ' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Stalin's Secret Police: I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTdTcKqAeGM is a disturbing video too, i can't attest to it's legitimacy or purpose though - it's ugly' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'absolutely terrifying, i came across material's like that awhile ago and they always remained on my mind, the thought of the possibility and the wonder if anybody's watching for it, in large enough numbers to be significant' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Dru I am worn out - I just wan t a nice place to enjoy beautiful things I feel guilty coping out but I am sad enough atm - I'll not do anything about it but I really need something soft for a while ' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i look up some heavy metal song topics or names and then sometimes horrible video's like that pop up, and i click them because they did, what's seen isn't always very nice' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'have a hug mate - i s the best I can do for now ' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll think about some more bueatiful poetry tomorrow for you n R ' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I have some funny stuff - Donne's Flea is funny :)' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'oldschool pickup lines :)' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how goes the infowar, folks?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'should the revenue of all industrialization in afghanistan (production), after paying wages of the workers, have been routed towards the 'financial assistance and development aid' in afghanistan?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/19/pol-nato-summit-canada-protests.html according to this, canada's asked to 'and probably will' contribute 4 billion dollars per year to afghanistan, of tax-payer dollars' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, the nwo are embezzling some more funds?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly canada is doing too well' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'for 100 billion dollars you can have a staff of over 1 million soldiers and cover all of the costs of ammunition' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'petro-china bought the contracts to afghanistan oil, instead of wise nato deciding that the money from the oil (possibly 100 billion per year or more) should be used for their project there' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what i read in january or so' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should just pull out and leave them alone' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think if they are going to be there, they should have to prove why my idea was unfeasible and shouldn't have contributed to their stay there, the costs and wages of the soldiers' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and training etc' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'because the tax-payer already paid for the 'war effort', and continued stay's there should be as unburdensome as possible' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if it pay's for itself then what's the problem with that? ' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there is no record of how much money per year in post-war industrialization is made per year' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but it's quite possibly not spent on the 'continued stability' of the place' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'war in afghanistan is not justifiable by any possible measure' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so now countries have to spend 4 billion in taxes per year to protect chinese oil infrastructure in afghanistan' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'which is worth possibly over 100 billion per year' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they should have kept private industry out of afghanistan and handled the buying and selling (fueling their own warmachines too) of oil as a NATO self, relieving the burden from the countries involved in their project' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'petro-china is a crown corporation though, if that's private industry' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i wasn't fully behind the war since 2001, justifiable or not - they don't seem to be doing things efficiently' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they don't even expect nobody to question why' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because people are fucking dumb' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or to provide the information that shows that things like industrial revenue can't significantly reduce the burden on contributing tax-payers' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as george carlin used tosay' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cbc news on the link there didn't post my question on the comments section' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe that means it was a good one' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people continue to go along with it, just like they were happy for the west to support al-quaida in Libya and Syria' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was one thing Gaddafi actually wasn't lying about' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think because the news says something it's unquestionably true, but i do mention the news and opinions on what it says' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people assume what the media and their government says is true' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so i don't know what is the truth about things there, only what they say it is' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when more often than not it's proganda at best, lies at worst' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the news was used to tell people about russian invasion in guatemala in the 1950's too' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the engineering of consent and things like that, dumb people who can't be trusted to not be lied to' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if america was a saint over in afghanistan and their purpose in the world war, would their soldiers have an 80% increase in suicide rates since 2010?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'do people who believe they're doing good just kill themselves cause they were doing so much good?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, instead they're shellshocked at all teh shit they're having to do in the name of america, and pumped full of antidepressants' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'being shoved into doing 8 tours of duty' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'etc' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's a price worth paying to keep you safe from terrorism!' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'war is hell, even soldiers who believe in the cause of their fighting get screwed up by what they see' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher laughs out loud. T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because terrorism is such a threat' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher laughs out loud. T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think if they were keeping people safe from terrorism and they knew it then they wouldn't be so suicidal' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'I'm no psychologist, but I'm willing to bet the mental damages caused by way have a lot more to do with fighting in a war than the political reasons behind the war.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know anyone who can sleep at night because of the toll terrorism is taking on us, all these bombs here' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you think wrong, chemosh' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so did russia during dekulakization' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we only had 1 alquaida-esque bomb in this country, and that was headed by an mi6 asset' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i'm not convinced even that counts' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'talk to people who have been in wars, it bothers you whether you think it's right/necessary or not' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization is that the righteous fight that lives on today?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the suicides of soldiers doesn't stem from the disposition of their mission, it comes from being forced into situations where they are acutely aware that their gruesome death is potentially moments away.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nobody wants to be the guy getting shot at, particularly if the getting shot at part cannot be reasonably avoided or reciprocated.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, the stories i hear out of afghanistan is that the troops really don't want to be there' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that happens with every war ever fought.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the political reasons behind a war are what the war is all about, if soldiers believe in it then they're stronger in their performance' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, they're just more reckless.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you'd get the same effect if you gave them needles and told them the syringes were full of win juice.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i understand fear of death and having to kill too, but why would they join the army if they weren't resolved in those things in the first place? i can understand suicide if a gruesome death is inevitably impending, but not so many (or much) if you believe in your purpose and have a chance at survival' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you join up, you are putting yourself forward to defend your country' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defend your family, country, and way of life' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'please explain to them how attacking afghanistan defends any of that when the biggest threat is their own government?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'believing in your purpose doesn't change what you see, do, or live' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'afghanistan is -not- what they signed up for' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'makes for a great passionate abstract. It's not so great a concept when you're out there getting shot at.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yep, it's true that not everybody who fights in a war -wants- to be there, but (possibly like germany) people were made to fight and knew what would happen if they lost, which occurred over the last 65-75 years' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and i think they probably fought with more of a firm resolve because of the price of failure' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it was real and understandable' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there is lose and die concept in afghanistan except for the natives' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could argue that the afghans are just doing what anyone would do in their situation' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'of course' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't know how things actually were there, just what i read about, but i think some war's give people more spirit than other's, like going to war just to pillage and split the loot that your king leaves for you to have' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'if america invaded my country and do everything i could to kill them too' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'atilla the hunt possibly had to go to war and had his people's support, against roman empire - because they were oppressing and enslaving his people - so they weren't on a mission solely for plundering and getting the private interest of their king farther' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, americans may have to face up to that soon' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, Afghanistan has a potential for a $2 trillion mineral wealth industry in the next 40 years if they decide to exploit it. Afghanistan is loaded with diamonds, gold, silver, uranium, copper, nickel and a few other metals.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they had a similar interest in not wanting to be oppressed slaves driven by a roman tyrant' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't drink his bottled judgement....' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Getting rid of the taliban and putting in a pro mining govt is good for business.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not what government is for' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Welcome to the new world order.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yep, i can see the situation of some of those mid-eastern people joining together to fight against the occupying enemy forces, which possibly killed alot of their family members or are rumoured to be serial-killing rapists and to not trust them at all' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i seen on the news some cases where things like that are figured to play into the recruitment into 'terrorist organization'' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like in yemen an article mentioned a missile fired from a american warship which killed 47 women, children and 2 young men' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in a poor neighbourhood' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's loads of that' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you needed the news to tell you that they use that for recruitment?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you had that torture prison in Iraq, the media only scratched the surface' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'govts start wars, spend billions, then subcontract the war out to private armies, then business takes over to mine and extract oil/gas or grow poppies to make heroin.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and i doubt they were all evil terrorists, probably just ordinary people who were murdered - and what does that say to everybody else?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'these are the kinds of people you put in charge of your country' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it says we missed' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think terrorism and religious extremism of islam should be handled by their own governments over there, like if a christian violates the rights of a muslim in america or canada, the christian will be punished - even if the leader of the country is a christian' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'the "terrorists" are only a small fraction of the people america kills' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there is no tolerance or lenience for crimes based on religion, no discrimination' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they don't take their own steps to do that themselves, then why go in there and do it for them? they rely on trading and investment in you and stuff' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there's discrimination, it's just officially illegal' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We wouldnt have to kill the evil doers if they would just bow down to big business and get thier asses in the mines to find some diamonds for the west.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, that's unfortunately probably the extent of the type of thing the war is about' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that and having another race of human cattle to god over' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'Last year I went to Iraq. Before America showed up, it was a happy place. They had flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate, where the children danced and laughed and played with gumdrop smiles.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk. T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now they've got depleted uranium and dead families' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and while they're trying to change places 4000 miles+ away from themselves, their own countries are being lowered to the level of the places they saved' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure they'll thank you for it' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: ''at least it's not as bad as being in starving africa', look at how good you have it, it's not as corrupt as somewhere else' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'll just remove these two human rights and then you'll still not be as bad as them, but will be a little worse' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they use situations in foreign nations that they run charities for and donate money to, to justify lowering themselves to the level of those places' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'because there's evil and sloppy administration in africa, we have to lower your standard of living to send them money' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'their leaders are filthy rich pigs and don't provide for the citizens that you're donating to, no infrastructure or development from within' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that sounds like the states these days' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Mexico has a fat problem now, to such a degree that they're thinking about illegalizing fat itself.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, and that's what the people who run america and canada and probably most other places want to happen in those places' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it also has a runaway drug cartel and mass killings problem' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lowering to their level is how i see it, i haven't seen much proof to the contrary' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canadian government and the media didn't ask or answer how they know that the doubled donations to somalia would be verifiably uncorrupt' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'somebody could get a bank transfer to a canadian citizen and canadian citizen can donate to somalia, and tax payer doubles the donation' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'an an immigration problem as well. Less mexicans are leaving.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah... it's all the plan of the new world order... hard to depopulate if you don't control everything' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's a little bit cruel and condemning to think that whatever aid people thinkt hey actually got was photo-shoots which were very cheap and small percentage of the money' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they don't even champion their charity to somalia on a canadian website' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they don't say how much exactly or anything, it's just a bunch of money doubled by the tax payer sent to a stranger to provide care for poor somalians' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and there's very limited means to verify that it was used as intended' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'new world order world genocide ritual conspiracy theories' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they announced 7 billion world population on halloween' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the day of the dead having some subtle hints on future problems?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're confusing multiple different theories' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Let them eat bananas.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'do people actually have faith that once most water sources are toxic, water filters and cleaning will be affordable for everybody, 'developed' or not?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'water filters are already inexpensive' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'without water alot of people can't survive very long, but it's not seen as a priority to protect clean and available water sources in every nation around' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that price can easily be raised though' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'toxic how? With an alien microbe that turns water into diamonds or something ?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'well, gold mining is one thing, then runoff from agriculture and industry' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'water filtering will only get cheaper, as will desalination.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they're now drilling oil in the arctic area's, reporting 'methane coming from the ice'' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and turning ocean water to fresh water is easy.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how many oil spills will never be reported there, or other destructions? they quit reporting on the mississipi dead-fish problem in september last year' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that's all faith you got rizgoth' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it'll probably only get cheaper as long as it's becoming more neccessary, once it's absolutely neccessary then they'll be more selective over who can have clean water' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'filtering water won't be much of a worry if there's no food to eat' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, I took chemistry in jr high.....not that hard to separate things out of mixtures.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what i think' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll become a price limit as to how cheap water filtration becomes because of the resources needed' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'foreign handling of canadian agriculture and industry provides reasons why canadians can't have their own houses (afford) jobs (outsource) and food (export)' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I havw a machine that removes water from the humid air in the house....ie a dehumidifer.....ie clean water.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this place is 4+ times as large as china and has 32 million people to china's 1.5 billion' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's no non-occupied government reason why canadians can't afford to live' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah canada has been america's bitch for a long time' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'water from the air is good idea, especially in the armpit areas of the world.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'israel developed a self-sufficient humidity extraction machine for the desert which gets clean water' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who isn't?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sounds like a good invention' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you don't sack a capital city and expect there not be consequences...' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090605091856.htm' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'who sacked a capital city?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Canadians did.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'oh i see, so in your lifetime the war of 1812 happened and you're a righteous avenger of resistance to tyranny' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'smart people oppressing a nation of mostly immigrants after the fact, based on what the people before the immigrants arrived did over 200 years ago' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they got no justification for their tyranny except in their fantasy books' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'who knows what we are capable of doing until evil doers force us to do it.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'weaponized anthrax is evil.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kinda sucks that we only built one Enterprise class aircraft carrier.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Next year, the USS Enterprise carrier will be 51 years old, and is supposedly going to be decommissioned.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why does it suck that we only built one?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'why do you think that' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because they obviously have too much money to spend, and too little debt' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and nothing better to spend it on!' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they only built one of the 6 planned Enterprise super carriers because the design ended up costing to much....so the Nimitz class replaced it.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'what are we talking about' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the nimitz class, USS Ronald Reagan cost $12 billion to build.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is nimitz smaller or less capable than enterprise?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, it is larger.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'with better weapons and defense systems.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the even newer Ford class, is an even more advaned version of the Nimitz class supercarrier.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Perhaps the 3rd Ford class supercarrier could have the USS Enterprise name......' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sadistic & Kruel: 'the new class is being designed with energy based weapons in mind' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The first Ford class supercarrier has a cost of $14 billion....$5 billion for the research, and $9 billion for the actual build cost.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it requires 20% less crew than the previous Nimitz class because of improved automation in some systems.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sounds like a hacker's dream' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mm, more power...the new supercarrier has 2 nuclear reactors rated at 600 MW of power....50 MW more than the nimitz.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Getting ready to outfit the supercarriers with laser weapons. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US navy has 14 ballistic nuclear submarines capable of destroying 100 cities each.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in Feb 2008, 2 US guided missile cruisers launched a missile towards a stricken satellite that was falling into the atmosphere in the north pacific....the missiles hit the satellite directly, and destroyed it.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We really do not need to build those new Zumwalt class destroyers starting in 2020.....the price is estimated to be around $7 billion each...and they would be equipped with railguns, and be enhanced laser cannon readyness.....$7 billion per ship is just to expensive when compared to the current destroyer that costs about $1.6 billion each and can be retrofitted with railguns when they become available.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, how many cities are there?' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'After congress threatened to cancel the new destroyer program, and the DoD said they were not needed, the shipyard that was going to build the new destroyers said they could do them for $3.5 billion each or less. A reduction of at least 50%.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so the DoD went ahead with 3 of the new destroyers.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The new destroyer is 40% bigger than the current arleigh burke destroyer, but has the radar signature of a 30 foot fishing boat, and the sound signature of an nuclear attack submarine.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, we are going to sell a couple of the arleighe burke destroyers to saudi arabia.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'sounds about right' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'then you can use that as an excuse to attack them' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US has sold 8 perry class frigates to China in the last 15 years.' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'bloody' T3/r7/2012-05-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'mis :P' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woohoo, facebook is dropping like a rock! at $33 a share now.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back up to 34 now' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but the way it's trading makes it look like there're large entities supporting the stock at round numbers...' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder how much facebook stock morgan stanley bought.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they could end up with a loss greater than their fees' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'shoulda saw me as a child.. I was even more frustrated back then.. I thought "Drugs?! No way" but then our government made them tastey treats no one could resist smokin;)' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how wonderful, the repubs passed a $643 billion defense budget, that also includes $88 billion for the war in afghanistan' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hopefully the senate will vote no.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what, are you against war, disease, and starvation?! How unpatriotic!' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, not really, I would rather we spend the money on space travel :p' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the DoD gets $643 billion a year, while NASA gets only $18 billion a year....something is wrong with that picture.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if another large country gets its priorities in order and starts a serious push into space, the rest will have to follow' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If we moved $100 billion from the DoD budget to the NASA budget we could have a moon base in 2 years, and a mars base in 5 years, plus robotic missions to all the planets in the solar system, the new space telescope, and the new orion space capsule up and running, and who knows what else.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're just waiting for china to catch up. They'll only move after the tech advantage disappears' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're ahead, you've got to shoot yourself in the foot!' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's kind of a human tradition!' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how about we just shoot the republicans in the foot instead ?' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they'll label you an unpatriotic extremist and throw you down a hole' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Tht is fine, I will take a couple of them with me.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is just a matter of attrition...there are more libertarians and liberals than there are conservative republicans...and most of the neocons are dying off.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they seem to be moving to the extremes with few consequences...' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the public doesn't mind the political discourse shifting rightward, there's little that can be done...' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, 7300 pounds of marijuana pulled from the ocean....it was just floating around.....talk about bale wars!' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'What if you posses a deeper subsconcious than the subsconcious you already know and learned of but never studied. Ofcourse, if you have a much deeper subsconcious (secondary) then there must be another conscious... I mean, the other does require another to be, although the subsconcious posses much more worth than the conscious state. I'm thinking of passed life experience. A higher realm of oneself.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'reminds me of Dr. horrible' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't you mean Dr. Demento?' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'here we go: And sometimes there's a third, even deeper level, and that one is the same as the top surface one. Like with pie. ' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if it were the same, it would be a continuation of the original and there'd only be two.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'like with the Bifrost.' T3/r7/2012-05-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I guess so. I see your point. For example: You're an older being, coming from the dark ages, you died in some cause and were reborn in medieval times, also, died... You been reborn in some modern age ... All those experiences, perhaps those conscious and subsconcious being also exist in this current life ... It would explain everything else, even your "destiny".' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what do you all think of microsoft buying a potash company?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or a fertilizer company*' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'google drives cars and augments reality' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'microsoft provides the software interface for the microchips in ford automobiles' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'are they going to purchase Case and John Deer next, then use their private satellites to maneuver the grain industry?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'these companies just can't stay on track to what they were originally about' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they remind me of this Sheriff company in transnistria on a aljazeera video, gas station, mercedes dealer, supermarket.. just about everything' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i guess it must be a standard business model for them, like egypts army gets tax-funding and then runs bottled water and all kinds of stuff there' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'according to the news' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're like little governments' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if your crime's are international though, then they say that's a professional kind of crime, so i guess they're like new world order systems instead' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i guess most successful businesses might all be government projects competing with eachother at the start, then sometimes gravitating away from their point of origin and becoming a being in itself' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18155293 like this stuff here, China fake parts 'used in US military equipment' seems to be an admonishment of obama's wisdom for re-election, but wasn't publicized until recently for that purpose, while revealing that infiltration is not only possible but numerous - are all ends sealed?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'of course people already wonder about how wise it is to import parts for your weapons and stuff from foreign nations, or process your food in them without inspection cause it's just too much money to inspect' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if china imports any parts, they're probably duly inspected at point of origin and before installation' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they import helicopter engines from canada sometimes, i'm guessing they know the manufacturer too well though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone ? anything ? ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/19/pol-nato-summit-canada-protests.html Baird not prepared to extend Afghan mission 'at this time'' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they want more money they say from the tax-payer, this was my question' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'I wonder how much it would cost to hire the Nato-enlisted worker's to build the oil infrastructure and other industries in afghanistan, paying their wages (they're not all working for a billion dollars an hour) and both using the fuel for their machines that they require over there, and the proceeds from sale to reduce the amount of tax-dollars required from nation's who made the new industries in afghanistan possible.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'I read that petro-china the not-so-private crown corporation bought up alot of oil contracts down there since the end of the war (news in the last couple years, possibly january). ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Instead of the industry funding the people who are there to 'stabilize' the nation, at least contributing to the cost significantly and verifiably, are tax-payers from nato nation's dishing out the tax-money to protect chinese petroleum investments? How come they wouldn't explain why it couldn't be done, until such a time when foreign NATO programs are neccessary there, that the industries don't contribute to the cost? 100 billion dollars in oil revenue or similar would pay alot of soldier's wages and other expenses, 1 million+' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sneak grabs some popcorn and sits back to watch the show. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i seen an aljazeera video once where a informant to a reporter or a reporter (or a disinformationalist) claimed that american funding to syria was going directly into the terrorist's bank account' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so it's a interesting problem, i guess that's not definitely the cast though (I mean Yemen, not syria)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i can't vouche for any reporter's integrity, but that's what i heard on a aljazeera video (that american funding to yemen was used that way)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and stuff like that, the 110 million per year of welfare money sounds like somebody's retirement fund' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's common theme in porno movies to stretch the asshole and then make her lick the shit off your dick, so it would make sense that global warmasters do the same with cunt-trees' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'People & Power : America's Dangerous Game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-eZ1x_qRAQ it was this video from memory' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'How To Brainwash A Nation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk I don't know what to make of this video, but man, it sure makes you think' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's unlike alot of the conspiracy theories i seen before cause it might have been filmed in 1984 and it sort of makes sense' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'only about 15% of time/money and manpower is spent on espionage and such is a quote, active measures' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'demoralization 15-20 years, destabilization 10 months, crisis .. , normalization' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's a cool video cause it gives a reason why the world sucks so much' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'when the job is completed they are not needed anymore.. they think they will come to power, that will never happen of course.. they will be lined up along a wall and shot , that's just ballistic, nightmarish kind of video' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'big brother government's there already' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's cool to consider though, maybe bail out when the spider sense tingles' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just some video quotes that caught my attention' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'debate away, i like to talk about this stuff and learn what people think about it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's already public knowledge on documentaries and reading material aplenty' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'even if it's all lies - the cbc article was reported from the media, (also the oil contracts)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'nato's bankers don't seem to calculate the situation very accurately, otherwise wouldn't they have seen alot of money can be made from installing oil themselves?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '4 billion per year.. woo that's alot of money' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but probably not as much as the industries will produce' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also the free fuel for their machines' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i guessed 100 billion, but that might be short' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's 2 million soldiers yearly wages' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what more do they need for their program?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'bunch of hustlers' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this is all opinion based on what i think of what i seen' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Further, the human environments are being undermined & degraded in deference to an elitist State & Corporate initiated global population poisoning & reduction agenda. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'The CFR is the North American extention of the Bilderberg group, a policy making body founded as an outgrowth of detente' between Nazi International & London Banking Interests. The current battle in all its covert & overt aspects is for global economic & political Corporate hegemony. There are many "squares" on the Grand Chessboard. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'quote from Eliezer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/05/19/pol-nato-summit-chicago.html' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization is an interesting kind of thing, class-based genocide and minority control of everything starting in 1929. Holodomor and the Great Purge as well were big problems. Also the holocaust was a very large problem. Alot of these crimes were done against the middle-class or some minority (and ethnic) group's, and because they were nationally administrated they weren't even seen as crime's there. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also swathes of beggars lost their lives (which is most people now)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'The kind of thing's people seem to be ignorant of being possible - (assuming the media is correct) - and how seriously they don't proactively defend against the future possibility of repetition. It's a sad world, and definitely not all possibilities are explored before their extreme decisions. This all happened within the last 90 years, I think it's about time people wake up to the possibilities of the future, and try to curb the results.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(from what I read and how i interpreted it)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTdTcKqAeGM Stalin's Secret Police: I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ8ZvYNlxiM The Century of the Self -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Engineering_of_Consent These are some things that I stumbled upon while skimming through the internet and things like that, some is very disturbing.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying (what's right or wrong, I'm just neutral considering what I read) Dan Shapiro said the US hoped diplomacy and sanctions would persuade Iran to alter its nuclear programme, but a military option was "ready". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Shapiro http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adas_Israel_Congregation_%28Washington,_D.C.%29' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'oops, last one is a typo, i didn't fish out the proper link i wanted posted' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timmons_%26_Company that's what i was lookin for' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Timmons & Company is an American lobbying firm based in Washington, D.C..' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_occupied_government i know they say it's a baseless nazi conspiracy theory, but the media factors seem to support it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/04/26/holocaust-fund-fraud-canadian.html but, there's also russian's claiming to be holocaust survivors and collecting holocaust survivor funding in new york and canada' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/04/26/alleged-war-criminal-que-beekeeper.html Quebec beekeeper accused of Nazi war crimes , (David Matas, the organization's senior legal counsel, said Katriuk's case could also be raised Thursday with Stephen Harper himself during a scheduled B'nai Brith meeting with the prime minister.)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this beekeepr is interesting, who knows what kind of information he actually has (allowing for the possibility that he's not an actual nazi war criminal)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Rudling, whose research was published in the spring 2012 issue of Holocaust Genocide Studies, attributed these details to KGB interrogations released for the first time in 2008.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this one soldier of the nazi's was here claimed to be chronicled by a kgb record-keeper, however they got it all worked out' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'on the aljazeera video documentary on the german Stasi in east germany (I think this was soviet or russian control), they burned over 5% of the total records in their archives before closing down the place' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and i'm not so certain that what evidence they provide is even required to be authentic for them to lobby their way through harper' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they only set troubled mind at ease with threatening demeanours instead of answers, which they might not be able to fabricate' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but if they have answers then what's the problem with that? then there's not as much troubled minds' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also there's the law of canada saying about not able to use evidence extracted during torture' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sources' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's just a guess, because america has one admitted to court' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's fascinating it you see what i mean, most people seem to be oblivious to it though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if*' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'national security isn't always in national interest' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '? maybe that's one thing' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'thinking that your government's actions are your action's is a troubling thing to think, the government only works for itself and who owns it though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'more and more every day at least, if it's not absolute yet' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but the people your government claims to be it's enemy's are all aware of how much control you have over it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so if they try to justify whatever using them as their basis, then they're (not being clueless) just lying' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and cause you're gullible you just go along with it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'and if you're gullible, you unjustly go along with the lies' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i wasn't criticizing solving problems without the use of nuclear weapons and warfare, if you happened to take things out of context like that' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so, you guys heads all hollow, anybody lookin through the information, or you already know it but also know how retarded i am' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it would provide for a informative discussion in a group of real people' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'although most of those don't want to think about it cause they can't do nothing about ti' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'if you talk alot and cannot say what you mean, then you likely do not mean what you say either' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sure, if you paid attention you'd see evidence supporting zionist occupied government puppets, or kgb agents pretending to be jews but working for the kgb and their subversion techniques' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'unless your mind rolled the subject matter around in a unique way that was different' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you're too much of a moron to expect that of though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'all provided by modern news and research' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'actually ample evidence of something just like one of those two scenario's' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and placed together so comprehensively that the only thing left is a question' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'on whether you believe what you see or not' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but, i shared it with the dear aardwolf group of private interests to see what they thought of the material, as maybe i was taking it wrongly' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm surprised that of all of the internet users i talked to, almost none of them can comprehend what i see' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or else they shut off their discourse or thoughts, sometimes talking about something stupid like you' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i have political moves that can fit into a stage of future holocausts too, like are private military's a international security threat? they work for who the private interest's purposes best align with' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'a bunch of strangers have less trouble executing a bunch of your citizens than you might, but the contracts have been signed by stephen harper and the us president in 2005 to allow cross-border military co-operation in the event of civil unrest' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'stupid and that's all such a thing of the past, no question about the non-genocide future ahead of us' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Also thing's like water and food security, this should be a no-brainer in canada, but people are more and more oppressed as time goes on. In a land 4x+ the size of china with 32 million people instead of 1.5 billion which are in china - foreign handling of canadian agriculture and industry provides reasons why canadians can't have their own houses (afford) jobs (outsource) and food (export) -- all of this can easily spiral into the utmost of negativity.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canada and america didn't see their future status of world vision commercials because they were just so much smarter than me' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'else { prove why not }' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'In a political move that received little if any attention by the American news media, the United States and Canada entered into a military agreement on February 14, 2008, allowing the armed forces from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation during a domestic civil emergency, even one that does not involve a cross-border crisis, according to a police commander involved in homeland security planning and implementation. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8551' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'police and national military weren't enough, private interest military contracts with the government and laws changing who's a political enemy ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'this is all the next holocaust in the making' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's no other reason for it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'indefinite detention for the kgb's obama enemies' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57437199-503544/house-passes-defense-bill-approves-indefinite-detention-of-terror-suspects/ (AP) WASHINGTON -- The House on Friday endorsed the indefinite detention without trial of terrorist suspects, even for U.S. citizens seized on American soil.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'duh huh? lets run!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what do you make of it? bunch of hogwash from a cartoon column in the horror pages?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sounds like what my country has had for 50 years now' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Wil laughs out loud at Redryn. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'are you from czechloslovakia?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'singapore' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there was a bill passed by canadian government in last 8 years that allows american 'who's the obama kgb enemy' cia double agents and their fbi / dea police and other institutions, like a senator or a lobbiest in washington to detain canadians from canadian soil and bring them to america without due process of law too' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that there's another fucked up kind of national security thing, unless i don't remember the article correctly, but that's what it outlined from memory' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they plan it all out like not first degree stalin hitler' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'progenitors of the future' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what it's looking like to me anyways, germany and russia were two countries led by two serial killers, and that how to brainwash a nation video outline's things interestingly' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'big brother was supposedly one of their plans for the future' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(in the past) i don't know anybody who cared to write down what life as a citizen was back then, usually they're the best source of information to see what kind of politics and systems were happening in the countries of the past' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what kind of things i see coming, and i think it's a fact' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm just waiting to see if i'm right or not, and it looks more and more authentic every day' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't claim obama works for the kgb or anything, it was for the scenario context of the entire discussion i was having with nobody, but he might' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and harper? maybe him too, or maybe neither directly works for them' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they both have jewish lobbiests though who make things happen' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and some jews might be russians' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i hope that hitler and stalin's modern day equivalents don't show up in the world, but.. can you figure out where all of these here new violation's of civil rights stem from?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or privately contracted military, possibly who get lobbied into the government's borders?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'see how many security holes that put in their nations, and people think that it's in their best interest' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i believe leaders of these countries would make even judas iscariot roll over his grave' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'don't see much concern in the senate and legislature on the possibility that all terrorist conflict in foreign nation's are being used for the purpose of destabilizing your own, which can be seen through the holes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'harper and obama set things up now so that they can remain leader of their disrespected countries indefinitely, and that's what they're going to do, i think - very soon will be something similar to a holocaust within america and canada' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or whoever lobbied them into place did that, and that's a good question' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'must be a god of the humans to have that much power, one scrawny human or a million versus 7 billion or .. maybe just 2 billion or 1' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so much smarter than all the cattle they are' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'another thing is protesting, now it's possible that the leaders of those protests work for the government and the gathered provide an illusion of resistance and desire of will, and whatever lenience the listening government has provides the thought that protesting might actually work - but they don't realize that they mean absolutely nothing, collectively or otherwise, and by gathering together in 'peaceful assemblage' they provide an easy target to a mass-execution, which is what the government is more likely to do than to go against any of it's prime objectives' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's cattle-programming, engineering the resistant to tyranny to serve it like sheep' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's how i see it anyways' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they want change then they have to take their damnation out by force' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that's a multi-tiered enemy most likely' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(out of game context)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the government is damnation to people, that's exactly what it's purpose is and it'll never change that' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'even if it's replaced based on the organization of the old one it'll degrade into the same state eventually' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so they have to add consideration to the force if they want to get anywhere afterwards' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(and during, judgement)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's why they signed a contract to allow military to cross borders, incase the sheep woke up' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and even if they stay asleep until the end they'll be killed most likely' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe it won't be a total holocaust though, if it happens, maybe it'll just be a selection group of which you're not a part, and you can live on with your family in fear for the eternal future of unsure of being murderedness' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'under the god the government damnation and their lobbiest, if the government's even neccessary afterward' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it won't be' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'all illusions get wiped out' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's one of damnation's purposes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's an illusion that keeps peoples minds off of the whole problem' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Save the Donkeys!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'several genocide's happened in the last 90 years, several more are almost absolutely coming, that's what i'm considering' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and the corruption in the world's impossible to hide' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'at least the results of it's presence' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 1990, 39% of silver was used for industrial uses, and mostly in western countries....Today, 59% of silver is used for industrial use, and most of the gains are not in the western countries.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cold war resolution agreement?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'd really like to learn the minds of the actual world leaders, what they think about issues' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'even if they don't let me know it's them, i know there's alot of beliefs in the world' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not neccessarily so i could change them, but just so that i could move on from worrying about the world's problems' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i got big questions with no answer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i have to answer myself and that's not the actual answer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i have to guess and refine, continuate' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i got problems of my own, but i found no solution to those, and while not having a solution problems that learned in life come to mind' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'NAPALM DEATH - Silence Is Deafening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQidsbSjL-w' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'mis' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm sure glad that we don't live in even darker time's though, although it is often dark to think of when paradise will be' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the perfect sandwich, 2 slices of 5 gram fiber 8 grain bread, cotto salami, cheese, lettuce, tomato, onions, brown mustard, and miracle whip.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'name the 8 grains' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you do it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I couldn't name 8 grains (that I'd put in bread).' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Gregor: 'sounds nice, but I'm a vegetarian' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more salami for me then. :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i hope the government and people aren't as corrupt as i 'what if' them to be though, most of my desired debate topics are situational - like consider this http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/story/2012/05/22/mb-vince-li-schizophrenia-interview-manitoba.html , from this it seems as though eventually they're going to release this guy into the general public, well before a person would ordinarily be released if convicted fro the crime done, does the justice system have a system in place to guarantee that the staff of mental institutions are aware and expecting patients to have feigned their illnesses to get off of a much longer duration behind bar's - while not hindering the treatment and rehabilitation programs that actually would aid a person with that mental illness?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sometimes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think that would be a neccessary security measure, along with possibly not releasing them scott free in a very inadequate amount of time that the affected people would have expected' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or 'to that that the victim's families would have expected*' that's more what i meant' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cause that's alot of years in prison for a sane person to do -' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and consider people in prison for violent crimes who are addicts, sometimes maybe they 'forgot to take their medication' and find themselves doing crime to afford a dose, maybe sometimes that blinds their minds like schizophrenia' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if an arguement is that because he forgot to take his med's he gave into his urge to get more meds, or acted on his impulses in the process of getting his meds?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's a lot of fine lines that they don't seem to consider very much to show the public that they consider them at all' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'almost like a reverse addiction :o' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the story kind of un-nerved me a bit, reading through how they put things, what they consider, what they're considering so quickly and things like that - there's people who do alot less crime than that and they spend a long time behind bar's, because they're not crazy enough' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or insane' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'mental health professionals aren't perfect though, and neither are people, even criminals sometimes make mistakes that weren't intentional as they are - i understand that' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what do you think about the article and what i'm looking for them looking for in the subject matter?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also the possibility of a bunch of phony professionals and a phony justice system, but that's one of those 'what if' scenario's' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or another is maybe, the meds hazardously separate some mental patients from parts of their minds that become more powerful without their constant conscious contest' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and then the urge's might become more spontaneously overwhelming' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'conflicts more accenuated.. and leading to possibly spontaneously overwhelming' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i seen sometimes the kind of things they teach as mental health, repeating phrases without the understanding sometimes, memorizing terms that aren't familiar, listening to restructuring of problems that aren't fully understood and stressing to combat the unknown with what is unknown' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'This Chemosh person-thingy is interesting... Hmm' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I miss when he came on as Druzil' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it doesn't all fit into a simple binary equation, human minds are very powerful tools and possibly not perfectly understood' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'did you guys look at the article?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if it was fully understood then there'd possibly be alot more mental health professionals in the world, or less need of them' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm not them though, i'm only discussing them and what i think about the situation, given various things like what i provided after' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like the psychiatric / psychological professionals in canada, the justice system and the general public (including drug addicts)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'discussing what i think about the situation, comparisons that make me think a certain way, etc' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i allowed for con-artistry there too, but didn't absolutely assert that that's how it is without question, just acknowledged the possibility' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the 'phony' part' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and hell, i even allow for the media to be reporting wrongly, or what i read to have been fraudulent, i only know what i know and i know what i remember reading (and think of what i read)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'mental health's almost like a double blind study on itself, with neither side knowing which side know's best, but mental health insisting that the other doesn't insist' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think it's something that people should fear or be ashamed of though, accepting ignorance and adapting strategies is one of the abilities that people have - fear what it can lead to and what it can be like, but not to try to solve the problems with an open mind and good systems that adapt to suit the best interests of all inclusive parties within reason' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'money's no burden to science is what they seem to show with alot of the experiments in the world, the projects' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's no joke anyways with news like that surfacing, so (to me) it's a debate topic if anybody wanted to discuss with me -here-, if I seen that responsible systems and well-considered approaches to problems were taken on a constant basis then I wouldn't have this to debate about' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i hope that people retain their right to peaceful assemblage and that the government wouldn't do some agent provacateur or whatever with them, causing the riot's that they don't get persecuted for because they're cops - i heard about this 'allegedly' happening in the past, (and this happened in the gospel story, something similar, when they were releasing jesus or barabbas, people were hired to start chanting and relying on people's group-mentality) - and other things like that that i considered earlier, but if what i learned of the past 90 years or so is any time frame for maturity that's where my alternative pessimistic considerations stem from' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and then i would sometimes like to debate or talk with people about why they know or see being done proactively to defend against the fear's that can be mad-made and enforced' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'other thing's like that, i like reasonable freedom's and conversive solutions to problems' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'And use the debate chat text to randomly tell people.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Errr, mis.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would like to know why Microsoft is so afraid of succeeding now.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only two large tech companies have done worse than microsoft since 2002....Intel and Yahoo.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Even the x-box has not paid back its estimated $6 billion in R/D costs since it started.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: '6 billion?!?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i coulda made one for like 6 million, easy :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) YnysMon: 'good lord, how can you spend that much on developing what will only be current for a few years?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '6 billion isn't going to sink microsoft though.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they can probably afford to throw 6 billion away several times over' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'no wonder they charge so much for there software' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, considering they are printing about $13 billion a year in profit.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'market cap of about 250b, pe ratio of about 10...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The problem with microsoft though, they are not sexy anymore....they need to redefine who they are so that their stock goes up....it has hovered around $25 for 10 years.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In the same amount of time, Apple has increased 20x.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, compare that to how facebook is doing...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what possessed them to believe it's worth over 100b, I wonder...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, FB should have opened at around $12 a share...not $38' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, Reuters "estimates a 10.8 percent annual growth rate -- almost exactly the mean for the technology sector -- which would value the stock at $9.59 a share, a 72 percent discount to its IPO price."' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but they got their hands on the money already... so from their point of view it was a success, since they suckered the public into giving them much more than they're probably worth' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, lets see....the hoodie man has lost $3 billion in value in 2 days....good for him...:p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, $3 billion in his paper stock value.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, he's still swimming in money...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless it's your life ambition to build a space program or something, the difference between 1 billion and 50 billion is pretty small, except ego-wise...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, most of his stock is restricted....and he wont sell much of it anyways because than his bankers will kick his ass out as CEO' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he owns most of the voting shares, which was really stupid for the banks to give him, 59% of voting shares.....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he could probably afford to unload a billion worth without affecting his control...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What is really killing the price though, FB has two types of shares.....voting shares and non voting shares....most of the shares for sale are non voting shares....so even if you buy them....you have no say.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would never buy a share of stock that didnt have a say at shareholder meetings.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wouldn't matter to small investors anyway' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how many small investors vote, after all?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It doesnt matter....even if you own 5 shares, you can still go the shareholder meetings and step up the podium and say hi mom!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'without voting privies, you cant do that.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, that depends on the company' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and sometimes, shareholders' votes don't even matter, like in those salary votes a while back' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most companies that have 2 types of shares, have two prices for the shares.....one for voting and non voting....FB didnt do that.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not much point if they can just make the votes nonbinding' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only the board determines salaries :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not the shareholders.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they ought to fire the board...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the only people who can fire the board are the majority shareholders.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'who own voting shares :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, in those salary cases, the majority did vote against the board's recommendations...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'exactly, but it meant nothing...the board doesnt have to accept the vote.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but the shareholders could've tried to fire the board...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I guess they figured that they wouldn't go that far' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only if they have a majority of the voting shares.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they had a majority at that vote...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Like the US having the majority of the voting shares of GM, the US can tell GM to fire the ceo if it wants.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless there were significant blocks that abstained...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wonder how facebook prices will do tomorrow...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it was pretty smart of FB to dilute the shares of the other founder though...I would have done the same damn thing.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i wonder how much longer FB will be around' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$2 billion on a $15,000 investment though is damn good....one of the best returns on investment ever.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that myspace thing is still around right? Probably facebook will also survive in some form...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah true enough' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, my country's consumption tax was designed for people like saverin...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'they should merge and become myface (yeah i know old joke)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'spacebook!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'consumption taxes do not bother me that much as long as income taxes are removed.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would have a problem paying both a VAT and a consumption tax on top of that, plus a state sales tax. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, he gets his profits from elsewhere, moves, and pays us consumption tax. Even if he never earns a cent of income ever again, he'll still be paying lots of taxes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we have a 7% consumption tax, so we might be able to milk him a bit.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if I had my way...the US corporate tax would be dropped to a max of %15' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha! The US is already deep in debt and you want to make it worse...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yes, because large corporations pay such high wages...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe you should fix the debt thing before lowering taxes like we did...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Corporate tax has dropped every year for the last 20 years because the top rate is 35%' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the revenue from it, I mean.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fix the loopholes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how about get rid of it completely, and just charge a fixed rate of 15%, no deductions.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, they'd still move their income offshore' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, because by getting rid of the tax code, you just got rid of the overseas loopholes :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'without fixing the loopholes, reducing the rate only reduces your revenue...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i agree flat rates are they way to go, deductions are such a half-ass way of going about it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the loopholes are built into the tax code itself by previous politicians.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'get rid of the tax code entirely, and you'll get more loopholes. What's stopping them from moving profits offshore unless you prohibit it?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bunsen and Beakerboy: 'international tax treaties.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Any dollar made in the US would be taxable at 15%, unlike now.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'without specific rule, it's easy for them to say - oh, no, no, nonononono, see, my 10b of profit comes entirely from my other subsidiary, not the US subsidiary, which made zilch, see, and the holding company is in the bahamas... i don't owe you anything!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the tax currently allows companies to write off large losses in previous years to profit in this year.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless you're proposing a 15% tax not on profits, but consumption. In which case you can watch your economy choke on the prohibitive tax.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'after all, if you tax 15% of revenue of a company that makes 10b and spends 9b... company goes bankrupt.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'in my opinion, we just need to return to a fully property tax based system, and eliminate income tax entirely. It's far to easy to claim your income is from some tax shelter in a foreign country today. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back to serfdom, eh?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'that way, if you have a factory, a corporate office, whatever here: you pay tax on it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'telecommute' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'if you're poor and don't own any land, you're under the tax radar' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'mailboxes, etc. for an address' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'consumption taxes are the best way though.....a company buys a car, bam sales tax, a company sells a widget, bam the buyer pays sales tax, the company buys office supplies, bam sales tax, etc.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'everything would get charged sales taxes many times over. :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so a high tech factory making zillions pays the same property tax as a low-tech plant? recipe for disaster.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I thought about sales tax too, but all that does is discourage the use of currency in my opinion' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, if you do that, that'll screw over companies on tight margins' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas has a sales tax and property tax only, and it works pretty well.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in that "tax property" model, if somebody owns property that earns little or no revenues - are they foreclosed by tax burdens' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'plus we've seen how sales tax is implemented today, the cost is always passed onto the consumer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and companies are flocking to Texas.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again, back to the company making revenues of 10b and spending 9b... 15% tax on revenue or consumption = screwed.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'income tax itself doesnt bother me, what bothers me is having to pay 35% of income, just because you happen to make much much more.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I assume that 35% is a marginal rate...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is fine as it is... as long as they close enough loopholes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, if you are making say $15 million a year, marginal or not, you are paying close to 35% in tax on real income.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unless it is investment income, then it is 15%' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, when my country was paying off our debt, even the middle class was paying 50% marginal rates' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and americans whine about 35% tax rates... no wonder the country is in a hole...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, it was the old people who got us into this mess...let them pay for it :P....all the seniors can pay the tax :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the problem as I see it isn't that 35% is a lot, it's that some people are successfully avoiding a lot of it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that's not what got you into this mess...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if your generation and the next generation and the generation after that don't make the effort, well...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the revenues are earned from resources, after subtracting expenses *directly* related to earning revenues, tax the remaining revenues (indirect expenses and ceo bonuses and excessive salaries are not eligible to be subtracted)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure it was, it wasnt generation x or y that got us into this mess in the first place. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'it's the scammers in the white taking the tax payers for trillions' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'err white house' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if no generation wants to stand up and take the hit to reform the country, you'll just keep sliding down...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'Taxes is a fundamental income for the government (even though corrupted) to expand the civilization into a magnificient sculpture ... With that, providing significant products for you to "enjoy life" and supporting your basic needs for all kinds of things. None can really complain about Taxes as nearly all protest and by that, increasing all prices. By the amount of protestors each year, the government must apply to their demands or there might be concequences to take into consideration. My point be,' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'personally, I just tell people if they want to get rich now, start your own damn company.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Then you can hold back part of your income, hide it, and pay less tax.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'is that people increase their own taxes. None is to blame but yourself.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'tac rate matters little when you can just keep borrowing until the lender just comes and takes over america' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, borrow a couple of million from your parents, get that education, and start your own company!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hell, you dont need a couple million....a plumber can easily make a couple hundred grand a year.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not what I'd call rich, though. Very well-off, but...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I know a plumber in Alaska who is worth over $5 million.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'electrition is a good gig too' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not quite romney-rich. Not even obama-rich, probably' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'obama isnt exactly rich....he made around $700k last year, and $500k of that was from being president.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'romney made about $30 million last year from his tax free investments and capital gains.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like all american politicians, they get a lot of earnings from "goodwill" which gets converted after their "retirement"' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the revenues are earned from resources, after subtracting expenses *directly* related to earning revenues, tax the remaining revenues (indirect expenses and ceo bonuses and excessive salaries are not eligible to be subtracted)qitp' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just get rid of all income tax, and just charge sales taxes and property tax' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again, company making 10b, spending 9b... oh why do I even bother.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'Engineering, Architecture, Electrician, and having knowledge and skills in Medication is the most 4 basic ways of becoming "rich" quick. Or, rob a bank and pray you survive and get away clean.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh please, if you are a company making $10 billion, you are going to have a bigger building than one making $100 million, unless it is a tech company. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why you're going to go bankrupt, if you attach a 15% tax to revenues...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and if your making only 10% before expenses, then your company sucks...name 1 company that only makes 10% before expenses :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I said to get rid of all income tax, not put a 15% tax on it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and if you're going to tax their property, don't be surprised if land-intensive manufacturing moves offshore entirely...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hogwash' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'any company that adds little value to their product (those involved in trading, repackaging, etc.)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'amateur economists are usually incompetent' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'amazon.com had a distribution center in north texas for a couple years....then the state asked amazon.com to start collecting state sales tax from texas customers.....so amazon left the state....well, amazon made a deal with the state to charge a 3% sales tax instead to texas customers, and reopened the distribution center...bringing back 1000 jobs.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'amazon realized that by having the distribution center in texas, it saved shipping costs and time by quite a bit.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'an across-the-board sales tax is just going to subtract from their revenue rather than their profit. Income taxes take from profits' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'professional economists are usually devious, corrupt, (and "incompetent" from a national viewpoint)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you mean to get rid of all "income" taxes including ones that take a percentage of revenue, you can't have sales tax either' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I agree with Zade.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'income tax hurts the poor more than the rich.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good professional economists suffer from "I-have-little-idea-what-he's-talking-about-and-I-disagree-with-his-conclusions-so-he-must-be-evil" syndrome' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not if you don't make them pay any' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it hurts the economy, and the working poor depend on the economy for jobs.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, it hurts the economy less than your "solution" of replacing it with a sales tax' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not, the donkey is always right...and the donkey says no to income tax.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the level of sales tax you'd need is high enough to kill many small companies' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I wouldnt have a problem with a capital gains tax of 15%, but an income tax on earned income is stupid.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and even some larger companies... I mean, I don't like exxonmobile, but their revenue is something like 500b and operating income is about 75b...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'slap a 15% consumption tax on them and they're walking the tightrope' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the IRS spends more money each year enforcing income tax laws than NASA spends per year on R/D and space travel.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or at least, their us operations...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that's a problem with the tax code... it needs to be reformed to close loopholes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not thrown out entirely' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Exxon pays close to 36% in tax, I have no problem with them.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, but if you put a 15% tax on all their products instead, they're going to be a step from dying.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pretty much all energy companies pay big time taxes, it is the tech companies that cheat the system.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and take walmart... 450b revenue, 26b operating income...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'dead' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'put a 15% consumption tax in place of a tax on income (profit), and guess what's going to happen to the economy?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas has no corporate income tax...but it does require any company that earns more than $250k a year to report the income.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '425b / 500b is 85% -- 15% is far smaller than 85% -- if 15% consumption tax is going break that 85%, that is sloppier than the Bob Newhart system of accounting' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the first thing that will happen is that the US will enter into a debt crisis.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Styliann: 'hmm... remove income tax and replace with sales/consumption tax... isnt that going to have a greater impact on low income families and therefore increase need for financial support for them?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Styliann: 'just spitballing here...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that too' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'on middle-income families as well.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'double the current taxes on the extremely rich iuntil the debt is paid off' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, you would need to scale it, ie lower income people would get a refund on food, etc.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some level of sales tax can be tolerated by the economy, but replacing all income taxes with sale tax is just not going to work' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or just not tax grocery bought food.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but restaurant food would of course have the sales tax.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, the low-income burden can be solved by handing out a certain amount each year to everybody' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas added a FAT-TAX to restaurants in the state.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but that's likely a political non-starter in the us...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Styliann: 'I also feel I should point out that the UK runs both systems concurrently atm... we have income tax and we have a Value Added Tax on all non-grocery shopping' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'plenty of countries use both, yes...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's a plan floating around in either MO State or at the federal level that will tax home gardens the same as commercial ones.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Styliann: 'and we still have a fairly substantial debt crisis - due to the issues with planning/expenditure' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Hah, I wont be paying a tax on the roses in my front yard!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Styliann: '(and yes I know have grossly oversimplified)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'after the national debt is reduced to 0 (or a surplus), and the tax rate returned to normal, watch how the extrtemely rich, the lobbyists, and (grafted) politicians scramble to never incurr a national debt again' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the nice thing about taxes on income (profits) is that if you tax only profits, even if it's a high rate, it won't kill the company. But it will deter expansion...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was to be modeled similarly to the puppy mill thing we recently voted against and had the legislature vote yes on.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in that sense, it does less damage' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no expansion means no jobs, no raises or bonuses, and probably no company functions (holiday parties, softball teams, etc).' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just do what my grandma did in the great depression....bury all her families money in a place no one could find.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'quest info' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not really... if you're taxing profits only, expenses like wages aren't subject to it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'raises come out of profits' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not lately.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'raises come from crappy performance.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'reduce the national debt to 0, and taxes required to run the country shall be far less' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a bank loses $ 1 billion and the ceo gets a damn $25 million bonus.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the decision to give raises involves that. The actual raises come from the pool of money the guy at the top thinks of as "his".' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if the bank made $1 billion, the bastard would get $35 million' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '0 debt would be much worse than the debt problem we have now.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you have to have debt to keep things running, just not to much debt.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hans - if a company is making 20m profits and paying 35% taxes on profits, they pay 7 and keep 13. If they decide to pay out 10m extra in bonuses and raises, they make 10m, so they pay 3.5 and keep 6.5.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the interest payments on the national dept are feeding parasites' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that 10m doesn't come entirely from that 13.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '0 debt would mean 0 credit card debt, 0 school loan debt, 0 mortgage debt, etc.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'basically a 0 economy.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I believe he means govt debt' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rizgoth is doing a "chicken little" ("0 debt - noooh, the sky is falling")' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'govt debt provides a lot of jobs....the problem is when they start printing money to build things like aircraft carriers, or for wars in other countries' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if that debt had been used to build highways in the US, it wouldnt be so bad.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you reduce the national debt, the politicians already know you are able to withstand (make do with?) the current financial realities and will very likely keep them at present levels instead of appropriately racheting them down like we expect. This means there will be even more money to throw around on pet projects on both the domestic and foreign fronts.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only if your politicians and voters suck' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which unfortunately...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"chicken little" was also a murderer -- the huge national debt is murdering the USA' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We will spend $85 billion on afghanistan and iraq next year.....just think how many high speed trains we could build with that money.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or how many small countries we could regime change.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the govt debt burden is still tolerable, actually. Just need to fix it by collecting more from avoiders, especially when the economic crisis has passed.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I seriously doubt a peaceful afghanistan and iraq will be worth the $3 trillion we will have spent on them.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but if the USA were to simoly throw money at "high speed trains" there be greedy pigs supplying crap shoddy versions of overpriced high-speed trains ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'kill whitey... that would help a lot :P *duck*' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'need better govt' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'who is whitey' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'whitey ford ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'a slang for white people' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's like saying nigger, but people just laugh instead of getting offended.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can't remember where I saw it, but there was this chart which showed a pretty strong correlation between the corruption perceptions index and average economic growth...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems the current purpose of politicians in the USA is to steal as much money from the USA as possible, for themselves, and their cronies and or special-desires' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, they give it all to the donkey.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the difference between pork and not-pork is often hard to see.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'building a $700 million bridge to nowhere is pork.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I hope at least most went to wages for ordinary construction workers...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'at the time, and assuming the bridge was actually built, probably so.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'although I bet they overpaid for it and most went to some crony' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, it was cancelled before it was even started.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a bridge in my hometown was built though....at a cost of $12 million in 1987.....it connected the city to a nearby island....and now the island produces about $350,000 a year in property tax.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and a new boat harbor was built on the island.....very good value.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even the govt has to take risks sometimes... sometimes the bridge turns a huge profit for the nation, sometimes it ends up being a bridge to nowhere...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nowadays, though, you spend a lot of money keeping inspectors happy. When I quit the industry in '08, the St. Louis Fire Chief's office (who had to look over any Fire Safety plans when designing sprinkler/suppression systems, and issuing permits for such) had a solid 2-year backlog. Much of our work went up long before any permits were issued.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'St louis is also one of those cities that has an income tax....no thanks. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the city does (applicable for work/residence inside the city limits). The surrounding metro area does not.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Is it just me or is the tmobile girl on the motorcycle just hot ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only if the sun's shining' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Feds fine Utah school for soda machine, and declare snickers bars nutritious' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'quiet uker, the sun doesnt shine in england.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'snicker bars are not nutritious ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'blasphemy!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the sense they mean it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should have huge floating sea kelp farms on the oceans.....turn it into a high quality protein source.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Run!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, a guy in Tennessee was digging in his backyard when he found 13 gravestones under 3 inches of dirt.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the tops or the bottoms?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the headstones.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or were they toppled?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the markers are military headstones from the 1960s, but the VA is not clear how they ended up in the guys backyard.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was probably a high school prank that got disappeareded when the kids realized how serious the trouble would be if they got caught.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what happens on NCIS never actually happens in real life.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what did the tvseries NCIS do that was unlikely irl' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'a lot of stuff' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the content of the cases. Serial-killer wives who make their husbands eat the toes of their victims just doesn't ever happen in RL.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not even in chili ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'they have a very small team for one thing thats not realistic at all but most crime shows do that' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'How about 74 year old grandmas who shoot their teenage grandsons 8 times while he is calling 911 to report that his grandma has gone nuts ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all told, law enforcement in real life is just plain boring.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'irl ncis probably has dozens of agents on that one crew' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'and how could one person run their entire crime lab?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those were the perverted sex desires of the scriptwriters leaking into those NCIS scripts' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even the exciting stuff like that hollywood shootout with the bodyarmor doesn't go like it does on TV.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'irl people call for backup' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a crime lab on TV is run by the same type of person nerds try to roll up in their gaming group every week.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what does Pauly Perette look like rolled up' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I bet she's got 18 in Intelligence.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'perhaps 10 in Charisma as Abby's role tends to be the naive and innocent little sister' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'omg i have nevere watched ncis' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a 16 or higher in dexterity since she can probably kick your ass' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'd give her a 14 in str and dex to account for her fighting skills, but that's all assumed since we never got to see her actually fighting (I think her only "fight scene" was a cutaway where we saw Charles come up behind her with a knife and when we returned to the lab Charles was on the ground ducktaped to the floor.)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there was a recent documentary stating: most coroners in the USA are likely incompetent and with inadequate labs - some are even corrupt and support corrupt law enforcement' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '- h8' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ziva is my fav char....an israeli assassin who joins the team.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'aww, now you done it, Zade. You just had to wake up Spamzilla...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the USA, state-of-the-art forensic labs are the rarity' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'in soviet russia coroner mocks YOU' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the USA, state-of-the-art forensic labs are mostly a fiction ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kate was a good opposite to tony, but since she was killed off....ziva has taken that place....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Ziva's much better, but they weirded out the relationship by offering hints of attraction. I mean, granted, they weren't related but they laid on the familial analogy pretty thick for several seasons.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'an alterna view is that: the Jews killed off Kate so that another jew may infiltrate NCIS' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'somehow I don't think that show is that deep.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, that was the main view' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade near competely avoided watching NCIS:LA -- was unbelievable adulterated crap, although Dick Cheney fans may like the murderessness of the old female crone T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I watch for the Kellon character (LLCJ's partner)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is a shame the guy who invented the iPod didnt get to benefit from it, since he wasnt able to secure the copyright of the idea because it cost $120,000 to do it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'rather, the patent for it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the last epidode of House "Everybody dies" was disappointing crap -- the first 45 minutes was mostly fiction and false, in retrospect ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no spoilers!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'note to self -- do not invent anything unless able to afford patent fees' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'bHer T4 went to her old address, somebody at the old address wrote deceased on her T4 slip, sent it back to the government, and instantly they declared her dead, froze all of her assets, her bank accounts, and stopped paying her pension,b says Florencebs son Fred. http://www.globaltvcalgary.com/canadian+government+believes+calgary+mother+deceased+following+mail+mix-up/6442549838/story.html wouldn't that be a real sob, being declared dead but still alive - one of these people tried to withdraw their insurance benefits since the government said they're dead' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(not neccessarily the woman in the artcile, it was on the news awhile back though)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that happened in the states, too' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Apple eventually paid the original patent holder for use of the original designs for his ipod like portable music machine....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the guy who invented it did it in 1981' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the guy also defended Apple in a lawsuit brought by another company that said apple infringed on their designs, when apple based the ipod on the original 1981 designs.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, weren't those called Walkmans and invented by Sony?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the guys original designs look pretty much like the early ipod designs....uncanny. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah... cause apple NEVER steals ideas...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, so Apple only became "generous" in retrospect when sued (?)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'walkmans use tape technology, the 1981 pre ipod machine used computer memory and could be recorded to via outside sources.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Apple had to buy the ipod trademark also....since someone apparently had already copyrighted it for internet kiosks in malls...called ipods. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'apple needs a new ipod, the current version is 2 years old.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't think the iphone 4s is that old...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'I know! How are we supposed to pay another $250 for the EXACT SAME FUCKING THING, if they won't release it? :(' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how else are you sheep supposed to support the stock price ?!!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and I heard ipad 3.0 is going to be a phablet' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as of 2011, over 300 million ipods have been sold worldwide.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the new maxi-ipad ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'personally, I like the new Asus eepad, it has a made for it docking keyboard that also extends the battery to 18 hours.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$500 for an ultrabook eepad computer with 18 hours of battery use....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Akuri: 'less if you turn it on lol' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, I have one, and the battery plus the docking keyboard lasts me an avg of 16.8 hours.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'personally, I think pads with keyboard docking is the future of laptop computing....buying a basic pad computer, and expanding on that with a keyboard, more battery, and storage if you want.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and getting away from windows.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'Any experienced artist (painting/drawing) in here somewhere? Sent tells. Wanna ask something...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gotta love the US Coast Guard....they do a fine job in hard situations.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so do the Pink Ponies' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Still waiting for Men in White.....so racist for it to be Men in Black.....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think they did that movie already when they filmed Dogma' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'some would say that you thinking that "Men in Black" is racist might make you a racist...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no they wouldn't. Those people think racist means disagreeing with Obama.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'a very strong possibility in the US :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Promethius' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'He's still bound...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Scientists have for the first time succeeded in taking skin cells from patients with heart failure and transforming them into healthy, beating heart tissue that could one day be used to treat the condition.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just don't stay out in the sun for too long or you're get heart cancer.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'cloning the heart after some genetic engineering seems to me the best solution. Unless you are a religious freak...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The research team took skin cells from two men with heart failure - aged 51 and 61 - and transformed them by adding three genes and then a small molecule called valproic acid to the cell nucleus. They found that the resulting hiPSCs were able to differentiate to become heart muscle cells, or cardiomyocytes, just as effectively as hiPSCs that had been developed from healthy, young volunteers who acted as controls for the study.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'one question, though. Why did they use skin cells? Why not just use heart cells? I presume they overwrote the defective dna in the heart cell nucleus with healthy-cell dna...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'apparently skin or blood cells are the best ones to convert to other types of cells' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'which you don't need to do if you modify the dna before you clone it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It also seems to allow the new cells to bypass the telomerase problem also, by using skin or blood cells instead of stem cells.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'cool' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the researchers injected the new heart cells into rats, and the cells bonded with the existing cells, creating new connections and worked how they were supposed too.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'YAIRS' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ands when are they going to do this with human rats' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if the research continues to be promising, in about 10 years.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when they are sure the rats won't die' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'the rats will die anyway' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so lot of human vermin are going to be dying from heart disease because of this ten year delay ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'people will die anyway' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'medical research takes a lot of testing' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'waiting ten years also jacks up the cost of R&D so that only rich human vermin are able to afford the treatment' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's also a CYA component.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they dont just jump from rats to humans....they do monkeys and apes next.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah this is more about money than "saving lives"' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they ought to be allowed to jump straight to testing on willing volunteers who's condition is otherwise fatal anyway' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just because they can take cells from a human, change them in a lab, and show the process works...it doesnt mean they can just inject the cells back into a human and see if it works.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'euthanasia or labrat, kinda like prison or military?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you gotta do it in rats, then apes, then humans.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who are fully informed that the treatment is untested and will probably kill them anyway' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'works on rats but is mysteriously "a priori" deemed "unlikely to work on humans" until another ten years passes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It probably took them years to find a process that actually worked from human cells, and then worked in rats also, and perhaps apes, etc' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'scientists have kids that need to go to college/uni too :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(and another reason why the Nazis were supposed to win the war -- they'd skip the overlong delays)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not only that, but to be assured it doesn't cause some other random disease instead.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'like thalidomide. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bad example, Majic' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah, my aunt died from that' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'medical research is an expensive, time consuming endeavor.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'vioxx' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'any other drug that's been withdrawn due to side effects noticed AFTER it was in use.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'finding a cure for heart disease is worth the time and money to fix though.....probably have a better chance of a cure for that than cancer.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'there are cures for cancer :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, it is called death.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cancer goes into remission, it isnt cured. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'sides, how will they keep all the donation money rollin in if they cure it?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA (non-Nazis?) went ahead with Thalidomide, unless you're hinting the USA is where the Nazis went, and hence the thalidomide in USA (but not in Canada - no Nazis in Canada)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Zade. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wtf? my comment about thalidomide had absolutely nothing to do with your comment about nazis.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '22 May 22:52:43 (Debate) Majic: 'not only that, but to be assured it doesn't cause some other random disease instead.'22 May 22:52:55 (Debate) Majic: 'like thalidomide. ' <--- why medical testing is necessary beyond 'does it work in rats'' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'research in growth of body parts and organs from skin or blood cells is progressing quite well though.....there should be treatments for many of those related illnesses in our lifetimes.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i heard on a national geographic channel commercial that shark's are immune to several diseases, including cancer - and also about a ocean bacteria that eat's cancer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think it's impossible to cure people with cancer or develop immunity to it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Naked mole rats are immune to cancer.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'research into actual cures will most likely be developed only from govt/charity funded research, due to conflicts of interest in for-profit types. Unless the cures are really expensive.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, that's what govt is for... to do what the private sector cannot, by its nature.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, Einstein helped the nazis to create a time machine?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the cancer-eating bacteria is simple and inexpensive to obtain/produce and is safe for human consumption, the cancer-eating bacteria is likely to appear in HealthFood stores' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Further study of this pathway is providing the molecular basis for developing therapeutics to treat osteoporosis and other diseases of bone loss. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748652 osteoporosis and arthritis/bone illnesses are common among alot of people, but this research (i did a google search and posted first link relevant from nih website) doesn't seem to be widely publicized on ordinary reporting services' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in one article i read within (maybe the last 5 years) they were apparently able to trigger bone growth and reduction manually in their research, and there was 1 medicine available only in the USA that had similar affects on people' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'most drugs that they release seemt o have adverse side effects and stuff now, but I've been on the lookout for updates on their progress, since they seem to be making some' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'drug companies deliberately add adverse side affects' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the nazis are doing it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i seen a youtube video that was about 4 hours long from austria or germany that claimed that' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it wasn't in english though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'thats conspiracy theory bullcrap' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'what reason would they have to add bad effect to drugs?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'to sell more drugs to treat the side affects ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'every drug company wants to make a perfect drug, but it doesnt happen they just want to make billions before ppl start sueing because their family members died' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'they make more than they get sued for (a lot more) then they pull the drug' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Dont eat that bagged lettuce.....the govt is finding listeria in packaged bagged lettuce from california.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The bagged salads are sold under the names River Ranch, Farm Stand, Hy-Vee, Marketside, Shurfresh, The Farmer's Market, Cross Valley, Fresh n Easy, Promark, and Sysco.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again? dole had a ginormous recall of the bagged salads a few years back' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'that argument is stupid because you generally cant take a drug to counter the side effects of another drug doctors will switch you to something else, usually something made by a different company' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'my mother's been telling me to wash or not eat those bagged salads for years :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, the notice of listeria was released today about the bagged lettuce from california.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'yeah our food production industry is terrible in the US' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'there is actually legislation that prohibits slaughter houses and food production facilities from being shut down' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'they just get fined even when they produce what is basically vats of e-coli' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'could be worse..you could be drinking milk with fake protein in it, the same stuff that is used to make particle board that is sold at home depot. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'like they do in China.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'might be, who knows' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'they put high fructose corn syrup in everything' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'why not cardboard' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'everyone knows hfcs is good for you, it is just like normal sugar.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'lol' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'according to the commercials on tv and radio :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'yeah trust commercials on tv :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Monsanto will do whatever they have to to get consumption of hfcs back up....it is down 18% in 1 year. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth i disagree, i think monsanto has diversified and is doing well in the fiber production markets' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'So that is where they are putting the extra hfcs !' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'hear the lastest, apparently they spray the corn with and insectide and blows up the bugs stomach' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'special laws to protect hfcs is why real sugar costs 2x the normal world price :p' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'i thought US sugar was heavily subsidized to keep the price down' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nope, the price is kept higher in the US to create a market for hfcs' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'speaking of sugar... i've heard it can be grown chemically now' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which is why imports of sugar into the US from other countries has dropped, Brazil used to be a big exporter of sugar into the US.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'whats the point of that? isnt it easy enough to grow it already?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gotta protect the corn growers in the US :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i dunno, i'd love to try growing some sugar' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'actually, i've heard my agave can be made into syrup as a sugar substitute, but im no chemist' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'they destroyed hundreds of acres of sugar crops here in georgia just a few years ago and made the price skyrocket' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'dont know why they did it though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus if they own it, they should be able to destroy it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is the same reason why Brazil is not allowed to export ethanol into the US even though it is much cheaper than the corn ethanol made in the US.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'to protect the corn growers.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lots of the carribean nations used to rely alot on sugar trading, from what i read' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'when i heard about it it boggled my mind it just seemed so stupid' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sugar cane and stuff, it looks healthy compared to some of the stuff like you guys are talking of' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus shrug, a lot of its always just propoganda' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'also known as ' spin' or ' marketing'' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but if you want to tell me how to make sugar from plants, or chemicals, i'd love to try it' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ethanol prices in the US would be at least $1 cheaper per gallon if we imported the ethanol from Brazil instead of turning corn into it.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth what else is corn good for, keeping in mind the lack of quarred nitrates for use as fertilizer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can make plastic out of corn.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'some people eat corn...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth ok but i dont have corn, i have agave' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i dont even have corn seeds =(' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can also make corn whiskey out of corn....ie ethanol.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'you could look up how to grow sugar cane, but im sure its not easy' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth how would i do that, with agave?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus if serfs can grow it. so can i!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can make ethanol out of agave nectar.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'much easier to grow marijuana and sell it to buy more sugar :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'how.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and how do you get the agave necter out of the agave' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'probably cost 3x more than corn ethanol though.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus i cant grow marajuana, i'm in the usa' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the secret to sugar cane is how you cut it, if you cut it properly it regenerates.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth not if i dont use electricity in the process' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'elbow grease and solar power = free' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'i know plenty of ppl that grow marijuana just dont tell the police' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'lol' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, the agave costs more than just buying a 50 lb sack of cracked corn at a feed store.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth i already have the agave.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Do you have 400 lbs ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'it requires a tiny amount of water, some soil substrate, and sunlight.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are people still getting caught for smuggling sugar in from canada?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so make some tequila' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'do i need 400 LBS?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'anaristos, um, why tequila and not mescal?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'sure, the tropical weather in Canada makes it ideal for sugar cane growing.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'im not in canada.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the more agave plant you have, the more moonshine you can make, the more you can sell, and make $50 a gallon.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, anyways, if all you wanna do is whine about the money made by corporations, it doesnt seem very productive' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'tequila is easier on the system than straight mescal.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, funny how people keep trying to smuggle in sugar from a country that doesn't make any' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth 50$ a gallon seems pretty useless... at that price why not just drink it myself' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'anaristos okay. so what's needed to make tequila' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'a distillery' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i mean, apart from the its not blood thing.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'anaristos okay, that i dont have. what about just making non consumable alcohol for cleaning parts or evaporative cooling purposes' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'its basically yeast + carbohydrates right?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you might be able to squeeze $100 a gallon out of it though, but usually only get those prices for brandy moonshine...like banana or apricot.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you can just let it ferment' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'that seems le a waste of a good plant... wouldnt carbon sequestration of a rubisco containing c4 metabolism plant be better?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, well i wouldnt mind giving it a try. the permits are cheap for that sort of thing' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'people were getting drunk in the Paleolithic, so technology is not an issue here.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You wont be able to get a permit to make moonshine.....just a ticket to jail if you are caught in the US :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth its a 15.00 permit through the bureau ofa lcohol tobacco firearms and explosives' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'they have a website' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you cant get a permit to make hard alcohol, only for beer or wine :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'well, then i can make beer or wine.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'my grandma makes molasses cookies and other things with molasses sometimes, it's healthy and naturally sweetened :o' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but i can get a permit for methyl alcohol just fine. so i dont see the problem if its not for consumption bro' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but in the end, i really feel like you just want to complain, and offer no solutions' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'make beer and distil it... oh wait :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'santher, i cant make beer =) i have a box of electronics parts and an agave' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'that's all you need' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'fiendish no its not. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that's gonna be some gross beer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'fiendish unless you think i could use electrostatic discharges to cook the agave, i'd be lacking the neccesary heat to ferment' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'yeah man. just put it in a box in the closet for a week and then come back later' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i tried that.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'the cactus turned a darker shade of green' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but was otherwise livid' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher Tells Ol' Dirty Fiendish Chill...Because Its TiMe FoR a FaTtY, bOoM bAtTy,BlUnT. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Do you happen to live in cali ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's what maceration is, VampireDude. How the cavemen discovered alcohol. ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I thought maceration is what you do late at night when nobody is looking.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'anaristos really? i thought the augustiner monks did' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'unless they hung around the stone age, they weren't the first ones to make something to get you drunk.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'okay.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'wanna "discover" alcohol... just go eat some rotten blackberries at the end of summer' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'monks in the stoneage... sounds like a movie idea to me' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'well, wouldnt it be more profitable to make something else... like portable usb chargers, or narcotics or so on' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i dont see the point of buying the equipment to make a still. it seems lame' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and it still wouldnt get me the sugar.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If you lived in cali, I would just grow 12 marijuana plants in a big closet and sell to a dispensary for some extra income. you can get a medical marijuana permit for up to 12 plants.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'hmm, getting drunk on usb chargers, interesting idea but I don't think it'll work.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'how about portable usb chargers made of narcotics' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth yeah, but the sunlight those takes is a lot' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus i actually was reading about gallium arsenide based bacteria batteries that could eat plant matter and recharge a substrate consisting primarily of iodine' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'so use a pedal powered generator :P' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'cali has lots of sunlight' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'which in turn changes the charge of an electrically conductive plate, and charges a circuit' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I love perpetual motion engines, they are fun.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'abelinc it does. but a closet in cali has very little, my neighbor that moved out was openly gay and he used to live in cali as a kid.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and i could email him to ask...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'used to be a lot of closets there :>' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how did get get to the rainbows without sunlight?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'maybe a disco ball?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'add a skylight to the closet, and put reflective lining on the walls.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, you also need a few water drops, Abe :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth oh. maybe a photomultiplier!' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but it never rains in southern california.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'sure it does' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'it rained during the pleistocene era' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, it wasn't southern california, then :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'according to who?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I don't think the continents were shaped quite the way they are now.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'how do you think they were shaped?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'according to state records?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'santher but california was not initially a state' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'just ask santa anna' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'exactly' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'santa clause' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the end of the Pleistocene, yes, the continents were the same way, but I doubt that they were exactly as they are now at th beginning.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): (Friend) VampireDude pictures santa trying to take the alamo, complete with his reindeer. T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'so anaristos, if i wanted to put together a clc filter that could allow me to light a low wattage led once the circuit was fully charged.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nobody responded to "it never rains in socal" with "but it pours, man it pours"?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so disappoint' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'heh' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'abelinc sorry, i'll try to get you wet next time' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'could also try compact florescent lights to grow the plants in the closet.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth those require electricity.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'which in turn raises the overhead' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'tap into your neighbors power supply.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'its a lot cheaper to just use sunlight to grow.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, taht sounds immoral' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and growing marijuana doesnt ?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they sell LED grow lights for horticulture now that use alot less energy than ordinary artificial grow-lights, but they apparently cost more to produce' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'im not growing marijuana, like i said, its an agave' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they cover the 'full spectrum' of light that used to require two high-energy lights to cover' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'takes forever to grow agave.....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth not if you give them sunlight.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'mine turns over a new 'leaf' about every 11 days' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'then grow some blue agave :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and it would grow faster if i focused the sunlight with a parabolic dish' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, i dont have a parabolic reflector' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'from memory they replaced a 1000 watt bulb with a 250 watt bulb or a 125 watt bulb' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, if you give me a parabolic reflector, i'll give you an agave cutting' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it only takes 12 years to produce a nice blue agave plant to make tequila....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth less than that.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tinfoil will give you a parabolic reflector :-)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not according to tequila producers.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'you can just graft them and they grow much faster.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'abelinc my tinfoil is not shaped right for a parabolic reflector' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'rizgoth, well, maybe those tequila producers are just 'marketing'' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'feed them some Ortho(TM) plant feed :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's the neat thing about tinfoil...it's cuttable and malleable' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'anaristos i dont need to :P the bottleneck is the lack of sunlight' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'abelinc ah so? ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i'll try to find a knife and cut soem tinfoil.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I did it to a dieffenbachia once, and I had to go at it with a machete.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so, that means your tinfoil IS shaped right for a parabolic reflector, if you so choose' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not a big fan of tequila personally....I like banana brandy moonshine.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'might be quicker to just buy a bottle...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'okay. well maybe i so choose' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'how to make it keep that shape if it is so malleable' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'is there like some kind of mordant i would want to use?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: '1800 gold tequilla is the right choice :)' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'find something parabola shaped and cover it in tinfoil' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'use tape?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus i dont have anything parabola shaped' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1800 tequila needs to do better commercials.....really dont like that guy who does them now.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'he is annoying' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea very' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'stab a dog in the neck and take it to the vet when they sew it up they put a nice parabola shaped cone over its neck' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'terrathus, you are so useless' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'then just get rid of the dog and keep the cone' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a cone is not a parabola' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade, so how should i shape the foil?' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's an interesting thing to say.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'its closer than what he has' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I wonder why a parabola is called a conic section...' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Terrathus: 'once covered in tinfoil it should work, but of course he'll just say he doesnt have a dog' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i dont.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'found some 1800 silver, but no 1800 gold....' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i have a cockroach though' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: '1800 silver is their latest product.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'even if a reflector is obtained, how is the reflector going to avoid the attention of snoopy neighbours with 555-tips on speed-dial' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i dont see the need for a parabolic reflector for the cactus if its purely there as a plant and not for production' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade, its an agave. agave are legal here' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i've been tempted to try putting its periosteum next to the periosteum of an aloe i have.' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the FNBI may yet bash down doors on a fishing expedition -- like on tv ' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'to see if i could get it to respirate during sunlit periods' T3/r7/2012-05-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade thats ok, i rent.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'so the door repairs not my to do' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I kinda like coconut rum.....' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'the aloe's ph range is barely in the agave's though' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and since im no chemist, i am recalcitrant to start cutting' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the danger with uneven tinfoil is that crinkles may act like a magnifying glass and cause burn damage spots on the plant' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'this plant is not afraid of burning.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade i just need enough energy to have its photochromes transfer energy to a couple of gates to pump calcium out and strip hydrogen from h2o' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and if i give it an abundance of energy, thats cool too' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'it's got some good heatsinking capabilities.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but i dont have gold ^_^' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'does Aluminium foil reflect the full spectrum of sunlight' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'mischan' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade for the purposes of my agave which likes yellow and red light, yes' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, parrot bay rum....' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'anything that the aluminum fails to reflect is either shortened, lengthened, or adsorbed as heat / dissipated as radiative thermal energy' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but... the aluminum foil is still shaped like a roll, not a parabolic dish' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'start with a reflector that is a flat plane, the parabolic concavity may come later' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'sure. but i dont have many flat planes either' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ans where is this agave plant sunning while you are napping -- outside or inside' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i read that white-washed walls were the best redistributor of light for indoor horticulture' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those open windows are great for agave burglars' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'outside' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and its no joke, a girl i know's agave got burgled' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and rodents (mice, rats) like tasty vegetable treats' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'nah, agave teeth cause kidney stones in mice' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yes, because mice live so long :P' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'santher, indeed they do' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'santher, by the way, do you think that i should try a chemistry project, an electronics project, or go to a strip club?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'not around my kitty' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'why not all 3?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'santher cause finding a chemist, an electronics guy, and a stripper all at once is usually unproductive' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'in fact, a lot of chemists i know, i met at strip clubs' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'its like they have less people skills than lawyers or cops' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but they make bank.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'and a lot of the strippers seem to enjoy bank.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'so its like the perfect habitat in which to observe the otherwise skittish chemists' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'sadly, id ont have any chemist sized pokeballs to remove them for further study' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how many grams of agave are required to produce a lite of tequila' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade i dont know. i dont drink tequila' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'i'd rather find out if the chemistry of an agave would permit for a primary battery' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'but i dont have a chemist handy, and the clubs close at 2am bartime' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how many grams of agave are required to produce a litre of marketable agave product -- competing with agave plantations is no contest' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'zade i dont need to compete with them, i cut out the distribution and marketplace costs and overhead' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'About 7-8 kg. You can get as many as 5 liters from one plant.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'one plant, several years, 5 litres, does not seem profitable' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Up to 5, sometimes as few as 2. And I think they only use the hearts, so there's a fair bit of trimmings they discard.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'well, everything but the spines is directly edible' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'the spines are often boiled into soup as a calcium substitute i'm told' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much do 5 litres of agave sell for on the wholesale/retail market' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'You can get 46 oz of agave for about $12 retail.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Er.. agave nectar.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'So figure fifty bucks, maybe?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'genetic engineering to make marijauna plants look like other plants -- there may be profit in that -- imagine marijauna that grows and looks like a grass lawn' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'would be a pretty tall grass lawn.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mow the lawn weekly' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'uh huh, and where would the bud come from ?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "bud" is genetically engineeed to be in the grass clippings' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Sheesh, $87 to visit disneyland for 1 day?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and add the gene that give immunity to weed-killers and other herbicides' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I have still never been to disneyland :D' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'plus the gene that permits the immunity and THC genes to spread and become part of other plants' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'THC has great genes :>' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'genetically engineering edible plants that can grow in extreme climates could be interesting as long as they were proven non-invasive of the targetted territory (or adversely impacting)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Problem is ... it's hard to prove their non-invasive until they're out in the world invading everything.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'if you mess with the ecology something is going to go wrong.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like in the cold northern places where grass and some limited foliage does grow, but not in large enough quantities to be considered survivable' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it doesn't grow because it is not supposed to.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with THC plants, the potheads want them to be invasive and unable to be irradicated' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, hard to prove and also inconveniently costly, i understand that - i think well-thought out and tested planning is superior to greed' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'doesn't matter if you just smoke the THC' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'nature does a good job of planning.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i agree there, nature is tried tested and true, possibly older than people' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'by a couple of years, at least.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are some plants that are causing a problem in the southern USA -- grow fast and plentiful, and seemingly impossible to eradicate' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'poison oak and ivy.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) (Friend) VampireDude: 'kudzu' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, kudzu is quite useful now...you can cut it down and make ethanol out of it...and it grows back fast. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'add a THC gene to those plants, and - voila - an endless supply of THC to farm and market in the USA' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'basically "screw Reaganites" ' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'why do you keep talking about adding THC genes? Just grab yourself some female hemp and extract, then light it up :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'mmm, THC flavoured ethanol' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'THC is combustible' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just splice a marijuana plant with kudzu, and keep doing it until you find a combo that works.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'am trolling -- i never use THC -- bad for the cogitative process' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'your loss :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'gain, not loss' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more fun if you make cookies with it...smoking is bad for you.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you don't smoke much THC...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'a few drops, a few hits, and that's all she wrote :>' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'THC causes vain imbecility in humans' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides, grinding it up, adding it to butter and making cookies or baked goods with the marijuana takes longer to affect you, but then the affect lasts longer than smoking it also.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'who's got thc?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'oh? so what's your excuse?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'grateful dead cookies' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'grind it up? smokable THC is liquid. Actually, semi-liquid :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"grateful dead" Girls Scout cookies' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'oozy, is a good word for it :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sotura: 'if you don't grind when you've got thc, you're not using it right' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'that's true :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the taboo around changing perception of reality is like the taboo around wearing tight jeans to attract male attention, both seem to be un-natural and un-neccessary, cannabis is a herb used over 2,500 years ago in primitive medicine and most modern medicine seems to be derived from herb's' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i've read of several possible applications for it and i don't think it's very fair to reject their theories because of some social taboo' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I don't reject the theories, but overuse certainly is not good. Randomly re-wiring your brain probably won't end up well :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's much better to try to keep as many things illegal as possible so that we can criminalize as much of the population as possible. that way, if you're out of jail it's only on the sufferance of the government!' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people feel lost or oppressed sometimes and they turn to using mind-altering substances and other experiments to feel differently' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or they got other reason's, i don't always hate them for it' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'slavic folk are less likely to be addicted to THC than western eurpeao addicts -- hemp was more common in eaSTern wurope - so excess eaddiction was eliminated' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'yes, some people do that, but not all :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'marijuana is not addictive.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I would go as far as to say that if you are depressed the last thing you want to do is alter your consciousness. That's a game for stable people.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'similar to the story of Amerindians and firewater' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'every culture of every epoch has had some sort of alcoholic beverage.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(most modern medicine seems to be derived from herbs might be false or not completely accurate too, but the few pills i looked into seemed to have come from something naturally occurring)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's either not entirely true, or true in the sense that we've only been around less than one epoch.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'epoch win!' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if Amerindians permitted technology and discovered firewater (and other volitile organics) long before whiteman arrived, they'd not be so addicted to ethanol (and glue-sniffing)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'strong alcohol requires distilling technology and that usually requires metallurgy skills' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they did it for me :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Who likes wings from pizza hut ?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher raises her hand. T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which ones ?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'much better than the pizza' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'umm can't remember...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'with the bone or without ?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'without' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I heartily disagree. I will hunt you down and make you taste what you ate yesterday if you say Imo's or other cracker-pizza joints are better than Pizza Hut.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pizza hut makes a killer pepperoni pizza pan pizza....' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'boo, csi miami was cancelled....best one of the 3.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the filming of csi miami changed how movies are now filmed....adding the light artifacts is more realistic.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, EU is trying to instigate an electronic ID for all web users' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the IP address is for?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'isn't that what mac addresses are for?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mac address identifies the piece of hardware, not the person. IP address identifies the requester' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both are easily circumvented' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I use a scrambler....' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they want to regulate access to the internet at all so that you have to be authenticated using your eID' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'oh like an rfid... lame' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'piece of cake, just use a stolen id and a scrambler.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'smart people will always get passed whatever govt wants to do, it is the sheep that get caught by it.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doing so legally is key' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless the govt is smarter' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'unlikely' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'haha, govt smarter....' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'varies by country...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder when was the last time a us president graduated summa cum laude in math, science, or engineering or something like that from an ivy-level institution...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when's the last time an American president was born on US territory' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not that again...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'When was the last time the UK won a war by itself? :p' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1982' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back when it was the british empire, I'd bet...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hah, falklands doesnt count.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when did the US last win a war by itself?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'heh' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that was a war the same way that mound in that backyard's a mountain...' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we always win our wars by ourselves, because no one else has the balls to do it. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'the civil war?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do a google saerch for "french military victories"' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, the only wars we fought as a british colony were the F&I and the Revolutionary War.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in both of those, we had help.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'will probably give you lots of stuff on napoleon' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'napoleon was short.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country has never fought a war! (as an independent nation)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'google search for "french military victories" and hit "i'm feeling lucky"' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I like Canada.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"House" was cancelled because Gregory House became an unrepentent lawbreaker' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and Australia.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'gives me a long list of victories dating back to 387BC' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Australia is the largest supplier of uranium in the world.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'House was ALWAYS an unrepentant lawbreaker. It was cancelled because with just a few episodes each season people were forgetting to watch/record it.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'reality tv has taken over.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or rather, fake reality tv has taken over.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i miss fear factor' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as long as my NCIS fix is still there though, I am happy.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should never have cancelled Jeremiah half way through season 2' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'at least the WWE is never going away. In July, as they come up on their 1000th they'll even be approaching twice the consecutive episode run as the #2 Bonanza.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if jeremiah had been on a real tv channel, it would have lasted 5 seasons or more.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was an awesome show' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or that other nuclear war tv show' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Jericho' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how did that go?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas won the civil war.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that sounds too wrestly' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Jericho lasted 4 days and 4 nights, then the audience tore the walls down.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the audience did not want to watch/record the antics of a violent drug-abuser pimp-criminal doctor -- the tvshow was giving the false impression that heavy drug addiction permitted professionals to function properly -- blalderdash script*pervert*writer fantasies and blatant lies' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'evil Colorado senator blew up 28 large american cities, Texas Oklahoma Arkansas Louisiana and New Mexico created their own country, and joined with what was left of the old US east of the mississippi river to win the civil war with the western states.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "House" tvseries also gave the impression that gimps as doctors were drug-abusers that forced interns and underlings to commit b&e trespass and burglary' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do you expect tv to be truthfuk?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's tv' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'lol do people really take tv that serious? :P' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Jericho was a great idea for a tv series, it is a shame it on was CBS.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'next you'll be saying you believe everything they put out on the mainstream media news' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Republic of Texas !' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA tvwatching populace are impressionable mentally-retards -- some believe that House is a role-model' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take the "USA" out of that and the sentence is still accurate' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'House was and is a great show.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that's why to much tv is bad for ya' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they really punked out Gregory House at the end, kinda like they did Mace Windu.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The idea for Jeremiah is pretty good though.....a man made virus killing all adults over the age 18, and only the kids surviving except a few outposts of surviving adults who managed to get vaccinated.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'ooh, that sounds interesting.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was a very good show, but cbs started fiddling with it in the second season, and MJS eventually left it midway through the 2nd season when it was shelved' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'killing off Gregory House's career and killing off Wilson with cancer was symbolic of the scriptwriter/producer cancers infecting the tvseries -- the cancer also killed off any desire to purchase the "House" dvds -- sicko unhappy ending -- Wilson dies in agony -- that shall cause some discomfort nightmares in those that cogitate the show -- which was likely the intent: watching a douchebag doctor is supposed to cause discomfort and mental turmoil' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'err, Wilson didn't die (series ends with him having 5 months to live)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"extrapolate" -- Wilson dies in agony' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless a "House" spinoff "Wilson" happens, where a "miraculous cure" is found, or evidence that an insane Gregory House faked the Wilson cancer evidence, and the the cancer was benign or curable all along' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the first 45 minutes of the last episode wwere scriptwriter lies-- since Gregory House never intended to be a fire-victim -- Gregory House also committed murder' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm curious as to how you arrived at the premise that House murdered that junkie, Zade. The precredits segment at the beginning revealed that the guy was already dead.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the entire episode never really handled the how part, but the implication was that House realized heroin might have been his new version of vicodin and met the guy for a needle party (wherein the guy OD'd).' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the episode also never handled how the fire started in the first place.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wilson started it...he wanted to cook some hotdogs.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the guy was dead, murdered by Gregory House with a drug overdose, and in a building set on fire by Bregory House, with *false* fantasies of House staying there until the explosions, when Gregory House was likely long gone as intended by Gregory House all along to fake his death' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'House is my hero.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the switching of dental records shows premeditation to commit murder by Gregory House' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, it doesn't.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'premeditation, yes, but only after realizing he had Wilson to live for.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the circumstantial evidence is whelming' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'House (shown later in the episode) realized he was going to be utterly alone with no way out of his predicament, with none of his usual confidences stepping up on his behalf to keep him in check. Classic suicide stuff.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Frank, it's called Crime Scene Investigation!' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'classic premeditated murder stuff -- given the previous track record of criminality by Gregory House' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'someone watches too much house :P' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would like to see Greece leave the EU, and tell em we will pay you back after we fix our own economy.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Why anyone would buy a fed govt bond paying 0 % when you can get a 4.5% muni bond, is beyond me.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'maybe you hate your city?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'federal is city? since when ?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'munis have been known to default?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'less than 1/10th of a % has defaulted in the last 80 years.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the good ones presumably don't give 4.5%' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Sure they do, corporate bonds are paying %5.5 or higher.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is quite simple to find muni bonds paying %4.5' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'like Texas' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '5.5%? what term? On 1 month bonds?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and a cursory examination of texas muni yields shows that rates are under 1% for those due in less than 2 years.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so.... not sure what you're comparing? Apples and oranges?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Battle for Donkey Island!' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We need a new dirty harry film.....I wonder who could play the role.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'dirty mary?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sequel to the passion of the christ' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Duck Dynasty is one of the best of the new shows on tv.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'is that the show with the beardy guy doing duck calls?' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'guys*' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure is' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the z z top like guys who make duck calls, and do lots of stupid redneck things. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher perks up, something must have grabbed her attention. T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i gotta check that out :)' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'like raiding a fancy golf club to capture the bullfrogs to fry up for dinner.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or blowing up an old duck perch in the swamp, and replacing it with an old rv trailer.' T3/r7/2012-05-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or the best one so far....trying to steal the honey from an outside bee hive, using an industrial vacuum, and thinking the bees wont attack at night. :p' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'WEED NEEDS TO BE LEGALIZED' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'no shit' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dirkdiggler farts in the direction of Mythrandir. Better flee before he turns to you! T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'Who created their own chain-reactions? It's always fun to create a chain-reaction in social activities or events that seem ....hostile.' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'You find some people that are mysterious, ambitious, very interesting and highly intelligent... If you look closer, and observe them, you can see all the lies and desperation building up inside of them. ... Hidding themselves from reality, they manipulate unsuspected victims by controlling your lust. .. It's very interesting how you can take 1 mind from another and forge 3 more together and see difference, looking past all the lies, illusion, complete bullshyt.. Very interesting. Very amusing.' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'What do you guys think of Telepathic communication (consciously/subsconciously) ...' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what do you guys think of the rodeo in angola prison? http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/05/24/angola-prison-rodeo.html i think it's creepy' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I think it's awesome' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they promote good behaviour for people who have nothing to lose by offering the chance to be in the rodeo to exceptional inmates - there's other stuff too though, where prisoners can mingle with visitors, i guess the prison makes some money from it' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it gives everyone something to look forward to' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, it's not too bad if they do actually volunteer for it, they mention there's alot of injury's though' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they don't, then not neccessarily only people who deserve to be stomped may be getting stomped' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'people who deserved to be stomped' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the sad thing is, a lot of those criminals there, life already stomped them before they ever fucked with anyone' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's their life' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'thats not including the people who have fucked up wiring in their heads, just the ones who would have probably been good people had life not turned them into a snarling dog' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they did ruin their life, and society can't allow them to live with everyone else, and that is only fair, really' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i imagine they weren't all the best of people on the streets - quite the opposite, i'm just not sure if turning their pain into a public sport is much of a good idea' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but at the same time, just because they have to be segregated from the rest of us doesn't mean that they don't deserve some fun in their lives' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no they love it' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they say in the article they might move the rodeo into canada, and canada's laws that can send people to jail for a long time aren't all very fair' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they mention gladiators and things in the article' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'jesus that's altogether different' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if you ever seen the movie death race that's what came to mind when i read it' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'also, one of my friends who was (is) in prison told me that they have band equipment there, and if you behave then you can form a prison band with the other inmates' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and there are some actual good musicians sometimes in there' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sure, i have no quarrel with it either way, except what it might be escalating into (or could escalate into) more of a sport than a optional activity kind of thing' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'with any prisoners taking part in it' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I highly doubt that that will happen' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Chemosh agrees! T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'western black rhino got whiped out by poachers the other year, fascinating animals but no longer exist, like that dodo bird which was unaccustomed to having predators around (people and what they brought) - while there's some people called maasai around serengeti and stuff, is there adequate adequate environmental protection around places like that to prevent more extinctions?' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i guess if people are just scraping by or getting animals off their land cause they're threatening then they got some point to killing them - but it doesn't seem like that's always the case, and these maasai people sound like they're not the poacher variety if they stuck with their lifestyle as much as possible all these years' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i don't the planet would be so bad off if humans went extinct' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'don't think* :P' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they could hire them to patrol the serengeti for poachers and that can be their alternate income which the governments of kenya and tanzania are sort of forcing on them' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, people can be horrendous, but they're not all like that' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'sharks can be horrendous, but they're not all like that :P' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'shark's are more instinctual, but probably even they're not devoid of choice' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'animals don't care if one another goes extinct, like a leopard and a lion, they're competing for food - people just want to skin them and make rugs though' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i just hope something happens soon to greatly reduce human population... it's getting way outta control' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'human population wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is if morality and responsibility and respect were taught and admonished instead of their opposites' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that only would delay the overpoplation problem' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what i think, i seen the world deteriorate even since 1982, even though there's always been some low spots things weren't always as corrupt from the top' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'free market economy mate use and abuse at what ever the market will take .... ' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'people are consuming at a faster rate than the earth can replenish... something has to snap sooner or later' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'view the movie " Red Dawn"' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'not to mention the huge amounts of garbge we produce' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'consumer habits, tools being commonly used and things like that were mostly handed down from the top, i think - like the new york light bulb that burned for over a century, and changing a lightbulb 4x in a year' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'each of them bulbs is waste that isn't typically recycled' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hey don't characterise all of humanity that way - we could be sitting on the next alexander the grea !' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'lol' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'all alexander did was kill people... big whoop' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nowadays, you get lethal injection or put on meds for the same thing' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I disagree but even if that was all he did he did a good thing - humans are an epedemic ' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also how to make a living was typically handed down from the top, like in canada oil is basically the most profitable job to do, even if it disagrees with principles cause canadians maybe consume 10 or 12% of what's produced in a year' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'automation, outsourcing' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'somebody posted a comment on the canadian wheat board being illegally decommissioned by the harper government that mentioned how farmer's are sort of forced to maximize yield using chemicals year in and out too' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people need to eat, that's understandable, but at this pace they might not be able to eat forever, with ever deteriorating natural habitat - because the substances they use to get them crops and the crops they grow for the most money don't neccessarily replenish themselves or the earth' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ugh - forgot what this chan was like with low energy 0 they upped mt vals n I really can't give a hell atm ' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah, that's what they do to people that try and change things' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'oh you sound depressed, take this...' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'great to see you sgsin Dru ?hugs? fight the egood fight !' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I had a birthday yesterday 19-20 they think that is an event that needs medication ' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'pointing out problems you see in the world isn't fighting them, it's for clarification, and you don't need to be a drug-addict to wonder where the western black rhino went' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and where these thigns are all accumulating to' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'heck they'll medicate you for even "pointing out"' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'gotta be careful' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'fight the wes t join Al whatever it is ?' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'consider animal's migratory paths which are ran over by vehicles yearly, couldn't the government have spent a little extra money to place a bridge every 10 miles or so, so that animals didn't have to look for a creek 20 miles away or whatever? if they seen a choice between crossing a highway and going underneath a highway they're probably choose going underneath' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'calculate the amount on vehicle insurance spent in the last 80 years' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or money on damages' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they obvious thought things through and are environmentally friendly humans who don't want extinction' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'preaching to the choir mate - go make a differance ?' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also, money means alot to them because the bridges possibly wouldn't have come near the price of the insurance' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's without national parks, just regular animals that aren't in a protected area' T3/r7/2012-05-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'air conditioning is the greatest invention ever.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'central air is better than that.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'now all they have to figure out is how to keep a building that cold without it.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'circulate cool air through pipes in the walls and floors.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or cool water.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I plan on using the constant temp of the earth 3 feet down to save energy on my heating and cooling of my house.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it is even more constant 6ft down :>' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'really?' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twisting FatesDagger: 'I thought the vertical heatpump arrays were more efficient...' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'hmm, they also generate heat so more efficient?' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'If the white man & the black man, Would do that again. We can make this land.. AMERICAN' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'do what again?' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love those yellow onions that are the size of a softball....they make great slices for sandwiches.' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'australian businesses will be fined up to AUS$1,000,000 if their staff blame price rises on carbon taxes' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Really? Got a link? I do this on occasion o.0' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'which price rises?' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'proposed carbon taxes on any food made in aus' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/money/dont-serve-carbon-lies/story-e6frezc0-1226366534694' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'ohh...so only if we lie about it - that's ok then' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'everything edible's made of carbon...' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats' not what it's about' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What about salt?' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about the fake climate change tax scam' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they were even remotely worried about climate change being human-created by co2 emissions, they'd be replanting forests and protecting rain forests with a considerable amount more effort than they are now' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a scam designed to cover a big power and money grab' T3/r7/2012-05-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love the smell of napalm in the morning.' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'anybody care to debate DEAD HORSES with me?' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I make them into cowboy stew when they break a leg.' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'hahaha....sweet...MMMm MMmmm MMMMM' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dirkdiggler: 'after i have sex with them? your stew would taste different' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'And when asked if she was saying to the Greeks and other European nations that they had had a nice time and it was now payback time, Ms Lagarde responded: "That's right." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18216307 this woman compares civilized nation's with africa and claims they should be brought to africa's level, acting like citizens had any say over their government' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'she seems like the type of person i expected to be running that stuff, obama's chipping in 4 billion dollars to africa too for infrastructure he says' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'She added: "I think more of the little kids from a school in a little village in Niger who get teaching two hours a day, sharing one chair for three of them, and who are very keen to get an education. I have them in my mind all the time. ' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so she wants greek children to be even worse off than them, cause they are civilized' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sounds like an architect of holodomor to me' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i bet she'll find reasons why canada shouldn't afford food as well, they're so selfish in canada which is 4x the size of china with 32 million people in it' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most of Canada is frozen ' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '"Of the three billion extra people we expect to have, most will come from the least developed countries, and the population of Africa alone will increase by two billion," said Eliya Zulu, executive director of the African Institute for Development Policy based in Nairobi. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17829665' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, very far north all year it's pretty frozen, most of it has seasons though' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in winter, rediding in th North burns fuel -- and that is expensive' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's sure something, no guarantee of payback or anything, no democratic vote from the public, just i'm sending 4 billion of your tax dollars to africa because i respect them more than you' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'also, overpopulation from excessive lust for sex is not a valid excuse to flood other countries with the excess populations' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and likelihood that each of those 4 billion dollars will go to criminal enterprise is almost 100%' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i agree with that' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and cause africa's governments are corrupt and don't provide structure for their citizens isn't reason why she should be turning greece into africa' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'along with greece's corrupt politicians who caused the debts her austerity measures are aimed at' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'govrnment official that use taxpayers monies to do "acts of charity" in foreign lands are extremely corrupt' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canada (or the foreign nations like china and america who run all of the industries) consumes at most 12% of the oil it produces in a year' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a longrunning joke in Canada is that in Quebec, honesty is synomomous with corruption' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'however expensive you think having augmented heat is, it's probably not more expensive than not being in control of your mineral deposits' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that suggests that Canada keep the 78% oil in the ground as a reserve for later years' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i agree zade, obama is sending tax money to africa, which is very corrupt in the government' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i wouldn't doubt that they'll trust them to honestly distribute the money among their people too - possibly making a yearly donation to their corrupt officials' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'foreign aid's not going to fix their problems, unless their governments aren't corrupt' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'africa has lots of resources and they know how to use them - they force their people to starve to death' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they also have doctors that they send to canada and things like that' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they train them over at their university's there' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'colored doctors are likely to be "incompetent" as they are not "in tune" with white patients -- so after training colored doctors, deport them back to the third world countries from which they came' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the worst malpractice cases in Canada are from colored doctors' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i know of one about 32 miles from here who burned the doctor he replaced patient files and put their lives at risk by advising proven deadly treatments to illness' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they can learn alot from observing haiti, where from 1950-1990 half-breeds were blamed for all of the problems of the pure-breeds who campaigned into government on that slogan' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they are less likely to enjoy burning the files of their patients when they're the same color as themselves' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what "slogan" ' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'however they put it, the general idea was keeping half breeds out of political influence and having a black supremecist nation' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"burning patient files of prior doctors' is (1) a distrust of prior doctors, (2) a cash-grab ploy so new tests must be run, (3) indication of a lack of knowledge by the replacement doctor, whose malpractice incompetence is likely to be highlighted by the prior files (so the burning of patient files is a criminal pre-coverup for later malpractice)' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'haiti is and was corrupt a long long while -- haiti is not worth assisting' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"maybe there is a "God" and this "God" sends devastating earthquakes and hurricanes to corrupt regions" -or- "corrupt regions are more likely to be hit harder by natural disasters"' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i just seen a problem with that IMF Thing attempting to compare africans with greeks, who have some standard of living and ability that africans are denied by their government, whatever corruption greeks government was - i bet she overseen some con-artistry of theirs against their people herself' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'most of the population's heading for the furnace if things like her run it' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or they'll lower it down to the level of the africans she idolizes, using their situation as justification for the civilized plight' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is more to life than extensive book-learning -- (cue music from "The Outer Limits") -- there is also the psychic involvement' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"her" is too ambiguous' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Christine Lagarde' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Legarde sounds french' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yep, a french lawyer' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'she might be just being emotional too and her comparison's are real to her, with all things not considered' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'from the above monologye, sounds as though the french are causing trouble in greece or haiti or africa or the USA or somewhere' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but i assume that with such a high position in a international bank that causes entire nations to oppress their people, she'd know better' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i threw in obama's 4 billion pledge of tax-money and some other things to expand the problem and her attitude to americans' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if he shares the sentiment that cause africa's government denies basic human rights and sustainable development to their own people, american's should be turned into africa and thank the government on their way down' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also they're very uncivilized, which america is devolving into' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republicans are attempting to turn the USA into an "africa" by beggaring the middle class' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'stalin did that in 1929 to russia and for the next decade+ genocided the leftovers' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'communists maxist-leninists in american government and the IMF' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and there days, anything from the former USSR is corrupt -- since they may've killed off most of the honest decent folk there' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's true' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and that includes the jews that emmigrated to israel from the USSR ' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yep, b'nai b'rith has private meetings (the only race in canada who has private meetings - as a racial group) with the leaders of the conservatives, the liberals and the NDP' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in the last month or two the news reported that russian jews in new york and toronto were fraudulently collecting holocaust survivor funding' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the English likely killed off or oppressed most of the honest decent Irish' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the american foreign embassy to israel is an ex-jewish lobbiest from washington d.c' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'shapiro the monsanto big-shot is a jewish person, as is the 58th most powerful woman in the world who's surname is almost identical to shapiro, she's america's financial minister or something' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the b'nai b'rith uses evidence provided by the KGB to convict french canadians of being nazi war criminals' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the English oppressed the Scottish, and the result was that the Scottish practice deliberate lying as a form of humour (The Scotts were forced to learn to lie to avoid exploitation by the English)' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so it's possible that some jews are like you said' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'england was occupied by the roman empire, which was ruled from one of the places where it's top universities are now' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the monarchy came after that sometime, one of the emperor septimus commandments was to demoralize and genocide scottish people ' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so it's likely the british monarchy is just a roman puppet' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Voder: 'Brit royalty are pagan occultists' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how do you change the way a country thinks?' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ol' Dirty Fiendish waits for the punchline. T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you make the grunt important.' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ol' Dirty Fiendish grunts. T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not that kind of grunt.' T3/r7/2012-05-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Herpius Derpius: 'That got me hotter than a priest on a playground.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, oil companies are flocking to Kansas now....paying $1250 an acre for mineral rights leases and 20% of whatever is produced.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: '1250 USD an acre? People pay more than that in LA for living space.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: '1250 a ft might be more likely :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I love America, i love the beautiful countryside it once had, the freedom it's people used to enjoy' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone else looking forward to the inevitable eu bank runs?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'george soros, probably' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If the governments have a lick of sense, they will cap/freeze withdrawals on any long term accounts.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They did it here on super and long term deposits for a few months back when Lehman went under - the jitters went away, and everyone stopped being all butthurt about it eventually' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this would be a bigger issue than lehman as all the slack has gone - these are retail banks that would go under' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally don't care as i don't have assets' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a twisted way, it helps me if it all goes belly up' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lehman had nothing to do with people running to withdraw - it was the cause. If the governments freeze withdrawals, the banks retain liquidity and stay above water' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'the only possible solutions are to make 1 country (financially) from the euro zone, or tfor everyone to go back to their own currency' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think the second option is more likely' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be almost impossible for banks to have liquidity in the current environment' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to fractional reserve banking and currency creation' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'hence, euros will become worthless, so it's probably a bad idea to withdraw euros today' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I want some trillion Euro notes to go with my Deutschmark and Zimbabwean notes' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'end fractional reserve banking and you stop this kind of stuff happening' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'you mean go back to the gold or silver standard?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not necessarily' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'in sweden we solved our financial crisis by making it illegal to have a budget deficit' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a different issue' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'we were in deep shit 20 years ago, no we are fine' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'the cause of the euro problems are budget deficits, not fractional banking' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not strictly true' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both are factors' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fractional banking creates falsely inflated markets' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'while institutionalizing a balanced budget is a useful thing to do, it can be typically overturned by constitutional majority, so it isn't a perfect protection, plus it can make you unnecessarily suffer in the time of real need' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'true, Randon, I simplified the swedish law, it's not quite so strict as I said' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'over here they are so desperate not to let the housing market deflate that government welfare policy is set specifically to encourage the pushing up of rental prices, and you have the ridiculous situation of the government promoting mortgages on overpriced properties with absurdly low amounts of deposit' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is one of the things that got people into personal debt trouble in the first palce' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you falsely pump up the market and create false "wealth" through fractional banking, then when it falls over, the soverign states end up with debts they physically can't cope with' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, if you were to balance the UK budget, just balance it, not start paying down the debts, there'd be riots, deaths, and alsorts' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what do you expect them to do?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'if you make debts that you cannot pay, or in the case of some unnamed countries starting with g, cannot even pay for the freaking interest, it sucks to be you i guess :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'we were in the same situation in the 90s. We tightened our belts, and did what we had to do. Sure, there were complaints, but we had some strong politicians.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this isn't about tightening belts, we're talking about a budget deficit of some 33%' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'in greece, sure, but not the entire euro zone' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our deficit amounts to the entire health budget, or the nearly the entire welfare budget' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'where is this?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Ok.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think you are pretty screwed.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone is screwed' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You need inflation.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't need inflation' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Asia seems to do ok. Europe, not so much.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'you need a nuke? :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Inflation solves all financial problems.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are some in the globalist elite that think a nuke or bioplague would be the right approach' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, inflation just impoverishes the populace, enriches the elite, and makes the number bigger' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'asia seems to do ok, because it's dumping majority of its production into places which used to do ok, once they do less ok, asia will stop being okay as well' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an artifact of globalisation, you'll get that until there's one country/one government world' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'instead of a bioplague, kill all the redundant extremely rich ond confiscate everything they own' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'isn't that what hitler did?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not terribly fond of any solution that involves kililng large volumes of people' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i would resist globalisation very voiciferously' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the number of redundant extremely rich are a minority, and likely includes those rich suggesting bioplagues' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it still wouldn't solve the problem' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'How about neither mass murder nor a bioplague?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that are and were useful are kept, the other parasites are eliminated -- however an accurate definition of "useful" is required' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'first thing we need to dispatch are those crazy carbon trading loons that are trying to call people racist or evil for being against carbon taxation or regulation' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'most of the USA politicians 'd be euthanised' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they're mostly in on it, or have been bought off' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'and don't forget making piles of money themselves on the whole carbon trade' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'what seems like a loony behaviour to you is in fact a rather effective marketing strategy' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, regulate so that people can't do/use things, tax the crap out of it, then hand all the money to big megacorps in subsidies for less effective alternatives in the name of climate change?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Randor: 'nah, just take percentage of the capital flow for 'services'' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no taxation without representation, we should not being limited or taxed in this way' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take for instance the australians who've had land tax laws applied to half the land saying that if you use that land in a productive way, you need to pay carbon tax' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and then instigate fines of up to AUS$1M for any business claiming that a rise in the price of their goods is because of carbon tax' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might as well try and fine people for saying that the earth is round' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'Could you direct me to a place where I can read this law?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have the same thing here with large centrally imposed taxes placed on residential energy supply in order to subsidise wind farms that they -know- are expensive, inefficient, and pointless' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sure, lemme look it up' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'Thanks.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a good source of info about the carbon tax and the sequestation rules' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.co2australia.com.au/' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and here's some commentary on the fines on dissenters: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/the-truth-will-out-on-labors-carbon-scam/story-e6frezz0-1226197176697' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think in 20 years time, Germany 1939 going to look like Disney' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'not sure what that means.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's going to be an authoritarian nightmare' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'until the English started WWII, 1939 Germany was somewhat okay for the majority' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Germany didn't invade Poland?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Poland desrved to be invaded' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody deserves to be invaded' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'Where do you get that idea, Zade?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(if you're going to troll, i'm going to troll)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody was trolling' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(scroll back, there was lots of trolling aka blatant incompetence of opinions)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'going back to the start what is going to make 1939 germany look like disney?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'Just because somebody's opinion disagrees with yours doesn't mean they're trolling.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the take over of the world by global governance' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok now we have a starting point. 2032 U.N. or whatever probably isn't going to try to kill millions of people.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the opinions are blatently incompetent, that is surely trolling, even if clueless and inadvertent' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'Trolling is intentional.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already are' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'want to give one example?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iraq war, afghan war, libya war, syrian war' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's direct deaths' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'expressing an opinion is intentional, so *hastily* expressing an incompetent opinion is also intentional, thus trolling' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much of a stretch to blame deaths caused by poverty as a result of globalist policies on them' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'If I say something that people disagree with, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm trying to annoy them.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'It's only trolling if you're intentionally annoying people.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there isn't much of a global governance causing any poverty anywhere. there are certain nations that have certain polices that I'm sure aren't good for there own people.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"blatently incompetent opinions" are different to "researched properly-thought-out differing opinions"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the global banks had nothing to do with the financial collapse going on, Malkar? UN had no hand in those wars mentioned' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN had nothing to do with the climate policies causing problems for many westernised countries now' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zillian: 'And are a matter of opinion.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far easier to sit on the fence and poo-poo others opinions than admit reality' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Zade. T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the only global banks I think would be IMF and the world bank, crisis was caused by bad loans made by non-global banks.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the imf is not a bank' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"blatently incompetent opinions" (hastily expressed verbal diarhoea) are somewhat annoying' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'there are also no global climate polices, (it would probably be nice if we had some.)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'So why do you do it, then?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kyoto was one such,malkar' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'back at ya' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'mostly volantary, and I think now expired.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hsbc, goldmann sachs, jp morgan chase are all global banks' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, malkar, they were treatise that were signed up that saw signing countries set into their own law commitments to a lesser or greater degree' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'they are very large, but there is no "global governace"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without that treaty, they would not have done so' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UN is global government in all but name. the EU is the smaller scale test subject' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or are you going to tell me that the EU isn't a government?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the UN is very weak, and the EU isn't global, isn't even anywhere close.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"treatise" <> "treaties"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UN is very weak, but nobody is allowed to go to war without their say so. The UN is very weak, and yet Obama can take America to war without permission of congression in violation of the constituion because "the UN said we could"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot be a country without UN recognition' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'The EU was probably a mistake (the euro dollar at least), because they aren't really a country, but if you want to attack the EU make that point not some mythical global government.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'global government != global governance' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'the UN hasn't caused the US to join any war.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not what I claimed' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, nitpicking the alleged definitions to obfuscate and derail the conversations' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try again' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'that is exactly what you claimed.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no it isn't' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'read it again' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'if my local town council moves the stop signs to a worse place that doesn't mean global governance is messed up.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and then came the bad analogies' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was a rubbish analogy, i can't disagree with zade on that' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a better analogy would be someone from a different country pitching up and removing all of your stop signs without warning' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or deciding that the colour red was illegal' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and then the analogies that don't even make sense' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'it's an apt analogy, if you look at certain bad decisions made localy, or by cerain countries and add it all up and call it global governace, thats just garbage. ' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's how you think it happens, then you don't understand how the EU works' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or the UN' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'global governance? What global governance? The only thing we have is global opinion.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'global governance by the rich for the rich to the rich' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much sums it up' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK is currently paying them parasites $75bn a year for absolutely nothing' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the peers in that peer pressure are always going to be the ruling classes of the respective countries, whether they represent the people or not.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably the only solution to that is smaller countries/local government' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but to call it global government or even just governance, is an insult to the word' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e, the complete opposite to what is currently happening' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well at global level, it's more like tyranny than government as there is no representation' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'global bodies are essentially forums where people say "behave by the agreed-upon rules or those who stick to it will ostracise you (or beat you up if we get too pissed)"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the larger the scope of those organisations, the bigger the tyranny it can enforce' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU-wide, UN-wide, it doesn't get any bigger than that' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah, the point is, they can't do anything without world opinion behind it' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'freedom can be consigned to history' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? ' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ask Germans how they got sucked into fighting for Hitler' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's a single country' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if what you say is true, there would have -never- ever been any dictators' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no distinction' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if another hitler appeared, the UN won't even do anything until enough countries are convinced that something ought to be done' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'why WWII started -- dangerous topic -- Tigernuts' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'global bodies sit on their hands unless enough of their members decide on something' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you get enough of the constituent countries on the wrong side, what exactly can you do about it?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nothing. It isn't anywhere close to government, it's a bunch of members talking to each other' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sonshi apparently believes that centralised government only consists of "officially declared" centralised bureacrats and politicians' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no, there's no global plot against you' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just the same old' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with WW2 we were fortunate that enough of the world was 'against' germany.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a global plot against everyone, whether that global plot is just merely a global case of epic incompetence, or whether it was some deliberate evil contrivance is largely irrelevant because the outcome is the same.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we weren't exactly ready for WW2, so we had to stall.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I was.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, actually mostly everyone was ready for ww2' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nobody was, except hitler.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pre-UN or not, the only difference is that it got easier for a country to air its views, which makes it slightly easier to form coalitions against aggression.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not like it happened over night' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Most of europe was bankrupt, so nobody could afford to arm for war, until it happened.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And the only reason Hitler could do it, was because he removed democracy.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'As promised.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I don't think so.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, and where do you think it is you -have' democracy?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russia? oops, no' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'between the time when the war to end all wars started and when the US entered it, we had very few soldiers who actually SAW any combat and much of our equipment was being tossed on the scrapheap (or was simply old and outdated)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china... umm no' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Hitler had the most powerful moustache in history. It only looked small. In truth it had cavernous troves of stolen gold inside.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usa? hmm, well you have the illusion of choice, i guess' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eu doesn't' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'By "we", you mean the US?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as it stands now, it's up to each country, mostly, to solve its own problems' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except that it isn't' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'it's up to Germany to solve everyone else's problems' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have global bankers and the eu elite actively trying to bankrupt eu countries' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have US and the UN actively trying to trash the middle east' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you have problems with your "democracy", it's up to you to fix it rather than blaming the global plot against you' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly how is that allowing each country to solve it's problems? a country being able to solve it's problems itself is an exception, not the rule' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well all of the millions of people in Greece i'm sure agree with you, Sonshi' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's all a plot by the NWO !!' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you give up the power to fix things to someone else, well, that's you being dumb, and you can always take it back, along with the consequences' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Middle East was trashed long before even the League of Nations existed. It's really a cosmic joke over there, in that two or more entire civilizations sprouted from the same general area and learned to hate each other like nothing else.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's about as retarded as it gets' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, they'll take a hit if they recover their own currency, but it was their choice to give it up in the first place... And they always have the power to recover it.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's more like two or more factions of the same civilisation, if you're talking about the mideast situation' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'the problem with the middle east is that it has been occupied for (at least) a few hundred years (yes, it still is)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the greeks never voted to adopt the euro' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a few thousand, you mean, and probably even longer than that.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'their government did' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the middle east has a lot in common with Poland.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and who you pick as your government is an internal affair' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the asme thing, sonshi' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sweden did. We said no. Me happy.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if your government does stuff you don't want them to do, it's up to the people to solve that for themselves' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'repeating the same untruth won't make it true, sonshi' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments are largely an illusion of control/choice' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some countries stayed out of the euro, you know...' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sitting around whining that your government isn't good enough and is just bending to the will of global forces without heed to the people's wishes is what gets you that sort of government in the first place' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whatever you say, Sonshi' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately you'll be the sort of person they come for first' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, it's always smarter to go for the ones who would resist first... but I'm not a citizen of that sort of country.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least, it isn't that sort of country yet' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, what country are you in then, Africa?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '+n' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Rock of Ages, duuuuude!' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do know that africa's in a pretty crappy situation govt-wise, right?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, but has the benefit of everyone knowing it' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sonshi believes that the disgruntled populace may form a competent alternate government on a whim, without lots of cash' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and for the most part, they aren't improving very much' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'africa is a cesspool, just like haiti, dominican republic, a few other countries, notice a pattern here ?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I never said it was easy' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sonshi is a good little sheeple' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sonshi, go preach in China' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'funny, doesn't sitting around waiting for yourself to be butchered count for for that sort of thing?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sonshi, go preach in Syria' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, they're trying at least' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'libya, egypt, tunisia tried hard enough in the early stages. If they keep trying hard enough to change things, you'll see a big difference in a few decades' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Egypt may've reverted to a corrupt government again, under a different management' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bleh, it took the US 11 years to ratify the US Constitution back in the 1700s, and the world was much larger back then...you didnt have to worry about weapon smugglers selling you arms for diamonds in a couple days, etc.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's looking like it, zade' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'egypt never uncorrupted.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the fighting in syria is more than 2 sides' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'perhaps... overthrowing a previous government is only a first step. They need to keep working at it.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, and btw, a bill is going through the US government to hand all power of Internet Regulation to United Nations' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Yes, like that is gonna happen.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'such efforts are going to fail if you're only removing the "important pieces".' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US will never give up control over the internet.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, it already is, riz' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as I said, that's an internal affair... how much power you want to give to international bodies is up to your government. And you can always recover it (at this time).' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Suuure, that is why the US is so up to date on our UN dues, because we want them to tell us what to do even more.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure, shoot the president and maybe the vice president, but the cronies down towards the bottom of the list of succession are going to realize you're not really all interested in them, perhaps even depending on them still being there, and will continue to operate like they did before you started tearing up the place.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hres628/text' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Besides, you forget, congress makes the laws, not the president. I dont care what a couple of congressman want to do, unless you have a consensus to give the UN more power, it will never happen.....and there hasnt been a consensus in congress since the 1980s.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wrong, riz' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'check your presidential decrees' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'check what obama has stuffed through using them' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which can be overturned by a super majority of congress.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you think a super majority will happen?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it happened to clinton during his impeachment.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it also almost happened when Obama was elected.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A Miami police officer fatally shot a naked man while he was chewing on the face of another man Saturday afternoon on a downtown causeway off-ramp, The guy apparently wanted a midafternoon snack officials said.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'was he really a zombie, or were the cops just homophobes?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'after all, I've never heard of a zombie stripping down before the meal when they caught someone' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps he didnt want to soil his clothes.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in fact, I can only think of 2 zombie movies (outside of porn) where zombies get naked, and eating brains had nothing to do with them getting naked.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '(in case you were wondering, the movies are "My Boyfriend's Back" and some movie I saw on IFC about a newlywed couple)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'vatican whistleblower arrested - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/25/pope-butler-arrest-vatican-letters' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Happy 35th anniversary Star Wars!' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'the greatest movie of all time is only a few months older than I am. :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and thank god weesa no hearda of jar jar binks back then.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'ever seen star wars in 5 seconds?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'oh, we did. They probably had the original idea in some other Henson production, much like how Yoda/Grover are done the same voice.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'feel sorry for the actor who played jar jar binks though.....his career died after that character.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the phantom menace was particularly brilliant. "Meesa Jar Jar Binks! Meesa your humble servant!" --> "I've got a baaaad feeling about this!"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'Himsa bombast!' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I personally liked jar jar binks....was a creative char to the seriousness of obi wan' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'they should do a Jar-Jar parody of Mr. Boombastic' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a 2010 report from the United States Department of Agriculture found that most non 'organic' beef could have veterinary drugs like antibiotics, Ivermectin, an animal wormer linked to neurological damage in humans, and Flunixin, an anti-inflammatory that can cause kidney damage, stomach and colon ulcers, and blood in the stool of humans.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not suprising' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in fact, kinda expected. This is the sort of thing conservations should be concerned about, not fecking co2' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'An independent food testing company recently tested 55 samples of HFCS blends and found 1/3 of them to have levels of mercury considered 'safe' by the feds....since when is mercury in your diet safe at any level ?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'same could be said about any food additive' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if 2/3 of the samples can keep it out of the food supply, than so can the others.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not. they use it in vaccines, too, then try and claim it will "help your baby's brain development"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'mercury?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Food safety experts refer to imported shrimp as the dirtiest of the Seafood's Dirty Dozen list, and it's not hard to see why when you consider the common contaminants Antibiotics, cleaning chemicals used in farmed shrimp pens, residues of toxic pesticides banned in the U.S., and pieces of insects. Less than 2 percent of all imported seafood is inspected.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i think babies are even more vulnerable to its toxicity' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'did you know it's safe to eat cockroaches?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'unless they come from sewers' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vaccines commonly contain thimerosal, which contains mercury' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'it aint the roaches but whats on them' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'and that pretty much any food you consume that contains ingredients you didn't add yourself has them?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'bugs are highly nutritious for the most part' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'right, but we can't keep them out of our food supply so how do you figure out which ones are safe and which ones aren't?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not all vaccines, btw, mmr, oral polio, yellow fever and tuberculosis don't' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll certainly be avoiding flu shots in future, though' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Hard-to-treat, antibiotic-resistant infections are no joke. Superbug strains like MRSA are on the rise, infecting 185,000 people -and killing 17,000-people annually in the U.S. Thought to proliferate on factory farms where antibiotics are overused to boost animal growth' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i think the preservatives are far worse' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'not all of them. Some are made from human hair.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a recent study buy the Univ of Iowa determined that 7% of the pork sold in the meat dept of supermarkets were infected with antiobiotic resistant MRSA' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'make sure you cook your meats really well :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea i mightve undercooked some chicken the other night, kinda scary' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'I wonder how they determined that?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fine balance, undercooking doesn't wipe out the germs, overcooking kills off the good stuff' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'health care reform should have started with not giving antibiotics to healthy animals. I think Norway is still using anti-biotics that are obsolete everywhere else.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'I mean, they can't have sampled ALL of the meat and it'd be totally preposterous to consider that nobody caught ANY of the contaminated food before it was sold. It's equally preposterous that all the meat (clean and infected) would've been sold on-time, so there's probably some discard there as well.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A 2011 study published in the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases found that half of the U.S. supermarket meat sampled contain staph bacteria, including potentially lethal MRSA. Turkey was the worst offender Nearly 80 percent of turkey products samples contain staph bacteria. Pork (42 percent) was next in line in terms of bacterial contamination, followed by chicken (41 percent), and beef (37 percent). ' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'This is why I prefer to buy grass fed, corn finished meat from local farms that use mobile USDA butcher trucks that drive from farm to farm to butcher animals.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i essentially have to pay for all my healthcare' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it should be pointed out that even if taxes paid for your healthcare, you still would have to paid for. Taxes come from somewhere.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i pay my taxes' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government spends them on useless shit' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'fine. I am just pointing out that "free" is misleading in the context of healthcare.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's no free healthcare' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not here, not anywhere' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and there can't be.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'in other for healthcare to be free, the providers must refuse pay.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suffice to say that when it comes to healthcare, i'm fully in favour of nationally provided free-to-consumer healthcare, and i'm all in favour of pay as you need private healtchare' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I am all in favor of having someone take care of my stubbed toe without charging me. I don't think I'd trust major surgery to a free provider.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'like it or not payment tends to bring out the best in a worker. A worker that provides free service can say "well, what do you expect? After all it is free"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when most people talk about free healthcare, they're not talking about free providers' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'which is why I say that "free" is misleading.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently, jesus died on Friday 3rd April 33AD' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'or 29 AD depends on how you view dating.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Should've had proper healthcare' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'well, it wouldn't do to have him dying on the first.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'some place it as late as 41 AD' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'heh, that would have been awesome :) ( Not that I am happy that anyone dies)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'hehe, that would've made for an epic episode of Punk'd' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, clearly these academics must enjoy their research' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Who needs Subway when you can make your own subway sandwich for 75 cents or less.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But a sub won't fit in my toaster :(' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'there has been some serious research on the subject. Unfortunately, the fruits of the research doesn't trickle down to the masses. Or rather, the masses are not interested in the research.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's not really that important' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'Most researches will say that 33AD is a doubtful as the year Jesus died.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's important for historians and people interested in religion and culture of the era' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'it just would not be right if we always knew what day Easter would fall on.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'but we do know' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if the jews ate cotto salami, they wouldnt have been so anal at the time, and not killed jesus.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Spring equinox.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's like the year 1390 on iran's calendar if what i heard's correct - saying what year jesus was born is crazy whatever way you look at it, cause of how hard it is to verify that time hasn't changed much since they started recording it' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"time" changed? you mean "calendar" change, surely?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, time does change since it is mostly based on the rotation of the Earth :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'time is always changing, Earth has continously been slowing down since the Moon was ripped out of it.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'when Jesus was alive, the Earth rotated just a bit faster.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not statistically significant in 2000 years' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'seconds count :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'still changes the frame of reference, though.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'do you think the moon came from earth? it's amazing how it just stays there and doesn't go too far away or come too close, and we don't stop our orbits :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it is not clear where the moon came from.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'protect the Gay Dogs of America! Gay Rottweilers need love also!' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'we're also getting closer to the sun (and have been getting farther away in the past)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but if the calendar is correct and time is how we think of it by the calendar, then saying what year jesus was born is less confusing' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just having one place say it's year 1390 and another say it's 2012 is pretty disorderly' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'the moon has been verifiably determined to be moving away from the Earth at a rate of about an inch and a half (or maybe a centimeter and a half, I forget which scale was being used) per year.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, the point is that the birth/death of Jesus has as significant influence on our calender. So it makes it rather circular to claim that Jesus was born/died on a certain day, according to our calendar.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'how exactly do they measure that? :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'calendar*' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'they bounce a laser off the mirror they installed up there for exactly that purpose (back during the Apollo program).' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'it's a little like radar, in that they're measuring how long it takes the light to bounce back.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it is exactly like radar :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'I thought radar used something other than light?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'changing the frequency of the beam does not change the basic principle.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ixle beams a smile at Undertaken Anaristos. T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'light is part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Not separate.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '1 inch would make a difference of .00000008 seconds. That'd take quite a precise instrument' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'place don't use inches :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I'd believe more that the building the laser is in sunk into the earth that much :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'please*' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I'm using inches because that's what was stated in the claim ' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'well, inches or cms, he wasn't sure :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I thought it was horrific that they magled the metric system so that the US could remain using the English system.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'mangled*' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'there'd be very obvious evidence of cracking, misalignment and other structural deformities over the course of 40-50 years.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ignore anaristos, continue to use inches' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos grins evilly at Tigernuts. T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oh, I'm not saying I don't believe the claim, just that I'm curious as to how they decided that' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Anyways, you guys are making me lose money at poker :P' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'the composition of the moon does not really reveal its origins.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'that's the point of poker, isn't it?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'then the A.D and stuff, how would they go from agent provacateur 'Free barabbas' to where is our lord and saviour in such a short period of time, if he's not notable enough to not be crucified in those days, in time to inspire a calendar?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you don't go crucifying people who you're going to base the world's time systems on, it doesn't make sense to me' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'all that stuff can mostly be attributed to Paul who championed the idea of Jesus' divinity as opposed to the Peter camp that wanted to leave Jesus as he was, a man.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'the time systems are not based on the point of Jesus's death' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'no, they are based on his birth :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'they aren't based on that either. They're much older than that.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well the BC/AD labels are obviously linked to Jesus.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'didn't say they weren't, but those don't define the time system.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They're based on the birth of Unix, duh' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'they're just there to make Jesus important.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it was almost criminal to claim that the year 2000 was the beginning of the 21th Century :) That would have meant that Jesus was born in the year 0. But AD "A" in AD does not mean after, after all :>' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're trying to push rules through the house to allow the cia to run propoganda ops against the american people in america' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'you know they are already doing that? And that they're also advertising themselves in video games?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially, but now they're codifying it to do it publicly' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why your health insurance is a racket:' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-medical-prices-20120526-g,0,3008905.graphic' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'because USA = CA, right?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'happens everywhere, was a bit in the UK news about them taking the NHS to the cleaners for gluten-free products' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'all of those hospitals in the graphic are located in California, and given the source probably very close/in Los Angeles.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the LA times newspaper, shouldn't be surprising' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'it's not, but we don't have a federal healthcare system so the rules are/can be different from state to state. The crazy and fucked up liberal Californians can very well be doing something entirely different and far less ethical than what is being done in the midwest.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any insurance system will have fraud' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'california might be the worst offenders, but it goes with the territory' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos . o O ( what is a liberal? ) T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and happens with different types of insurance too, i've experienced similar things with car insurance' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos . o O ( If "liberal" means "socialist" then "free" healthcare is liberal, by definition ) T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Starfleet and the Federation was created by liberals.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'live well and prosper ")' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'exactly.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'so was the BattleStar thing' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'and Star Wars, they were pinkos in that galaxy far, far away.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'no, the Star Wars rebels were ET hippies all the way.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all the evil empires in earth history were more or less conservative religious fanatics.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'more or less? "Liberal Empire" is an oxymoron.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'not saying that all empires have been evil. Though that might very well have been the case.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'using the legends portal is even faster :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'mis' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The FDA legally allows up to 60 percent of canned or frozen blackberries and raspberries to contain mold. Canned fruit and vegetable juices are allowed to contain up to 15 percent mold.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the FDA go house to house confiscating milk' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes armed' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In a recent test, over 60% of california grown fruit and veggies that use water from the colorado river for irrigation were found to have contamination of rocket fuel chemicals, and pesticides of various types.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'All these chemicals we use are in everything now.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'let them test boobs. Rocket fuel's supposedly in all the breastmilk.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't you like ingesting chemicals, riz?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's terrible, i think the government (or the UN or somebody) should figure out a way how environmentally friendly practices can be promoted' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're safe, you know, the government said so, and they government wouldn't lie to you' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'make them cheap. Right now, it's expensive to go green.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'alot of that destruction happens cause it costs too much to not cause it, or they make more money by making it happen, i think' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or they're too lazy and sometimes have to pay out of their own pockets to clean it up - which probably most businesses don't like if they don't have to' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'mostly it's because buildings are just too damn old or built on bad ground.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'concrete is a great building material.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'by itself, yes. Using the methods they used when these buildings were put up, not so much.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Going to put a concrete dome for a cabin on my remote lake property.....in 200 years or longer it will still be there as long as someone doesnt drop a nuke on it.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'then you have the asbestos and other things in stuff you put on the concrete that are now outlawed. Any work to go green means removing that, and by law nobody but the abatement people can be in the building. No work means no pay.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cause it's scary if peoples food is becoming toxic to 'save money', that sounds like a pretty ultimate tradeoff' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'you would make the same decisions for the same reasons, Chemosh.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't know, i might though :), i don't live very healthy lifestyle myself' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'lots of things in all aspects of life are doable if you can kick the consequences far enough down the line.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woohoo for private space travel....next stop the moon!' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'not if there's any more fuss being raised over rocket fuel-tainted breastmilk and baby formula.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's not taxable, they make it illegal' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'it would be interesting to see what happens if private enterprise gets to the moon first and is not a US firm :) What excuse will the US use to claim the Moon as US territory? It is hard to imagine the US not claiming ownership of the universe.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'one things that can be scary is considering things like these brazilian mangroves which had a very small oil spill nearby in 2001 or so, compared to the gulf of mexico and possibly some others - 10 years down the road, bbc news had an article (or one of othe media's) that said they weren't growing after all that time' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and they had spent roughly 500 million dollars on cleanup attempts' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your point is?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like the later consequences on down the line, if that problem's not recoverable with effort being put into it, how many of the destructive practices of people are gonna be the same?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '40-50 years recovery or longer' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just the ones that could have been done better or safer, but weren't because they were 'saving money'' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just when i think of things like that i think that somebody up high in the world should be making 'incentive' to being a clean-business' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In one of the major drug highways in the US, the FBI and arizona/nevada state police are setting up automatic digital tracking cameras to take pictures of EVERY vehicle that passes the cameras and the pictures will be sent to a database that hold onto the photos for 2 years so that police can log on to find known trafficers.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and proper planning too, making use of all the available technology and advancements to try to reduce long lasting environmental impact, regardless of financing' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'what will happen is that the "crooks" will just use evasive technology. After all, anything that technology can create, technology can bypass.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, with computers and things that can definitely be the case, depending who builds them and what their intentions are' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think there's very many people in the world who would actively oppose people who want to make the world a better place by reducing it's destruction balancing what's used to do a job' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'well, any automated system can be spoofed.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends how you interpret "make the world a better place"' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hitler believed he was making the world a better place' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'spoofing will cease to be effective when true AIs come into existence, until then humans will remain ruling :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'well, morality and people-problems will always be issues, but the ability to survive without toxic food and thing's like that makes good things possible' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the number of people who are poor and without work, and the difficulty in finding a job for instance, they're idle and the environment is getting dirtier every day, money's a reason why a industry can't be invented to tackle the environment's problems' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's probably hundreds of thousands of employers who could use a hand disposing of their waste in the best-known non-invasive way possible' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but money says that they can't afford it, and there's no incentive for that to change' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'so what's that sandbox in the Academy?' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'mis' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I disagree, recycling can be quite lucrative....especially if you are a garbage company....There are many revenue streams from garbage.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i know some garbage companies have been known to dispose of waste illegally to save operating expenses, while keeping up the appearance of cleanliness' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'name them.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i can't remember, i just remember reading some news about it, or stories' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Undertaken Anaristos picks a name out of the hat. T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so money's basically why the garbage companies would dump waste illegally' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and it's also the reason why workforce isn't tackling pollution problems' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'I think that what is happening is that humans are proving to be not a viable evolutionary niche. Their propensity for self-destruction will remove them from the chain making room at the top for something better :>' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'donkeys' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rizgoth leaps through the air and kicks a donkey in the head. T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'you would think that human "intelligence" would lead them to do things that would benefit the ecosystem. Other animals do so automatically even if they don't understand why they do it. It seems that because humans understand they have decided not to do. Suicide can be painful :)' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'deer eat berries, poop the seeds, new berry bushes.....humans eat berries, poop on toilet, no new berry bushes. :(' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sheesh, over 400 kids have been made sick because they ate some of those new Tide detergent pods thinking they were candy.' T3/r7/2012-05-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dokkar: 'they wrapped in plastic, just like the dishwasher ones...' T3/r7/2012-05-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyyone wanna debate ?' T3/r7/2012-05-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no debate for you!' T3/r7/2012-05-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you know, I can see why Kirk Douglas changed his name.....Issur Danielovitch Demsky' T3/r7/2012-05-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You steal my donkey, prepare to die!' T3/r7/2012-05-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'ok, ok, I'll leave your gf alone!' T3/r7/2012-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd have thought a potential $15trillion money laundering operation would be newsworthy' T3/r7/2012-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'noawadays? hardly...' T3/r7/2012-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sarcasm, or justify?' T3/r7/2012-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'what is your favorite game ever?' T3/r7/2012-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'computer game' T3/r7/2012-05-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'dead thread' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Doink has a giant smile on his face as he begins the rite of self-molestation. T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Undertaken Anaristos: 'grease the broom handle first.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Beauracracy is going to be the death of western civilization. The lack of jobs in Europe because of it, and the lack of new infrastructure and the fixing of old infrastructure in the US.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$118 billion to build a high speed train between Los Angeles and San Francisco? Shoot the lawyers and politicians.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'At that price, I expected you to say LA and Vancouver or something.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'It should almost be enough to reach New York. GAO says $50 mil a mile.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Apparently the idiots in california are too good for a reasonable cost.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'That's almost 7x, though. That's way beyond unreasonable. If they weren't using kickbacks and robbing people, rebuilding the infrastructure would be a great way to kickstart the economy.' T3/r7/2012-05-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'gotta love the internet... learned more in 2 mins of reading than watching the news 3 times about the quebec protests' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, oil companies are estimating that the oil recoverable in Kansas because of new technology is around 20 billion barrels.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Some of the companies drilling for oil in southern Kansas have been hitting oil 100% of the time with their drilling.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Looks like Kansas is going to have a budget surplus in the next few years, hope they are smart and put some of it away for the future.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If only we weren't using oil at the rate of about a swimming pool per second, those findings could perhaps be considered "plenty"' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh stop complaining about oil use, every new source of oil is a good thing.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Which is why we should be exploring more in Alaska.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '20 years ago people didnt want to explore for oil in alaska because they thought it would take 10 years before it started producing....well hello, it has been 20 years...we could have been producing more alaskan oil for 10 years now...and probably another million barrels a day.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska has about 50 billion barrels of known oil that could be extracted if new pipelines would be allowed to be built from them to the trans alaska pipeline.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in northern alaska that is, exploration every where else has pretty much stopped in Alaska.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If you want to explore alaska, go right ahead. Nobody outside the US cares :D' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'With some luck, you may find 3 months of oil there. Makes no real diff.' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'is an egyptian living in the united states an african american?' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'is the movie DRIVE awesome? I think so!' T3/r7/2012-05-31.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'more awesome than Boogie Nights?'