T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, there are clanskills and regular skills to change alignment'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, that was close to the right channel'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if you're daoine you can do it I believe'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'abortion: is it right or is It murder?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i wish alot of poor people had been aborted'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'poor people suck'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'that's going to end up in a religous rant'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'poor people love religion i know'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'jk im not totally evil....i just eat babies'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: '"Religon must exist, for the poor would revolt against the rich" Napoleon Bonapart[paraphrased]'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'HAHA which is true... mainly beggars suck though... but that still doesn't contribute to the argument of is it right or is it murder'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'abortion should be supported; with a population of 7,000,000,000 we need to get rid of people'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'so are you debating that because of overpopulation... which is bull btw... abortion is right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I would argue that since humans have distorted the natural process in other areas why complain about one area?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sepulchure crosses his arms and nods slowly and sagely to SnailBot Anaristos.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'id Say that if abortion is right because of overpopulation... then we can just go and Napalm overpopulated areas... it comes down to the same basic principle of taking the life of the innocent... to kill a mockingbird'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sepulchure hides his face in his palm after seeing what Aldehyde did.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'if I ever level, I am joining either Pyre or Gaardian'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i farted'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler lets off a real rip-roarer ... a greenish cloud envelops Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler!
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'see i told you!  I told you!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'no one in  the mood for debating this morning?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'debate chan is GAY'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'its for poop and fart socials only i thought...and talk about eating babies'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'channel is interesting'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler sits down and thinks deeply... What would Chuck Norris do?
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'now THATS a debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler slaps Aldehyde in the face with a fish.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Aldehyde kicks Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler in the head.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'if you want to debate, send Chemosh a tell telling him some random crap'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'should it still be legal to order drone (methedrone) from the UK if you live in the USA?  YES '
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'but *sigh* the analog drug act is a bitch'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Buying illegal drugs should be equally illegal no matter how you do it. If you think abortions are the same as using napalm on people, then masturbation is mass murder.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should end the war on drugs, it was a failure'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except for the government backed big banks who made an absolute fortune from it'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'HAHA yeah but sperm ain't babies that are already in they're developing stage.., sperm dies And reproduces.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Working against drug use is probably good. Drugs are bad. But putting kids in jail for personal use of drugs is stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And a fetus is not a person.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just decriminalise it, legalise and tax the less dangerous ones, it'll suck all the money out of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it really is that easy'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'how can you Say that... a fetus has thoughts and a heartbeat so can they not be A person?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really? that's news to me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abortions are the bastion of stupid people'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'A fetus has thoughts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I grant the heartbeat, but thoughts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should be illegal is a limited number of cases before 8 weeks'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err legal'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It usually takes more than 8 weeks before you even know you are pregnant.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rarely'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'yes... they respond to music and stimuli from the outside... sometimes it irritates them other times it calms them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Dogs do that do. Should it be illegal to kill dogs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is illegal to kill dogs'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No it's not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err yes, it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you're a vet'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe where you live. Not here.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh well, that's uncivilised countries for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd be surprised if you don't also have animal cruelty/welfare laws'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might not be applied in that way though'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Animal cruelty is illegal, of course. What does welfare have to do with this?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on the context'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Animal welfare, not 'welfare check' welfare.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'oic'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't see what it has to do with abortion, either'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'you must remember there's a difference between a fetus And an embrio'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still doesn't change the fact that abortions are mostly needed by stupid people'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In sweden it is legal to kill your dog. But you have to do it properly. '
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, how animals are treated is no indication of civilization. Most areas where humans live had other animals living there that were displaced, at best, killed outright is the animal was lucky, or pushed out so far from its environment that they starved to death.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'There is a government website with the allowed procedures for different types of animals.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, because they know best'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'if you think government is so bad, why do you want them to regulate stuff?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'humans decide whether other animals live or die, it feels me with pride...'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'fills*'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i want them to regulate the minimum necessary, in areas that the people mandate'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not regulate everything, despite what the people say'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the  question is "who died and made humans king?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government are supposed to be servants of the people, not the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'give me a break, Tigernuts. Please, don't quote your second grade teacher. She was laying to you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, if you want a society without laws, I am sure there are some places in africa like that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'ooh ooh new question... is it animal cruelty to kill a dog when its extremely sick or is it animal cruelty to not do it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, those black people are really lawless.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I prefer to have some laws in place.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who said it would be lawless?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Ranrr :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is he a bit simple?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'In the deep, dark, lawless Africa :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, because clearly that's the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'm sure there are places in the southern US like that too. Better?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I wouldn't want to wonder off the road and end up in some parts of Apalachia.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'there are laws in upper africa... the people just don't abide by them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they might confuse me with a revenuer :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'bullshit, Aldehyde. Africa was civilized before most areas of the world. Ever heard of the Nubians?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and Africa is the cradle of humanity, you should know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I didn't come from no stinkin monkey, I was created by $deity'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, whatever you say, Ranrr :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '39. No freemen shall be taken or imprisoned or disseised or exiled or in any way destroyed, nor will we go upon him nor send upon him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'nubians?? and still i Say... there are laws... people just don't abide by them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you of course will know where that comes from'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '40. To no one will we sell, to no one will we refuse or delay, right or justice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'What's that, some old law?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Ranrr!!!  Aldehyde cheers him on.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, Aldehyde. I'll grant you that. But why do you say that about Africa and not about the  rest of the world? There were 11000+ homicides in the US last year, somehow those people weren't minding the law. I won't even mention rapes and  aggravated assault.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I mean, you can go to a supermarket in the US and end up ventilated by an AK-47.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'i do not believe in evolution STOP its a bunch of bullshit STOP'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only if you go to a closed supermarket'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if that is a sign of civilization, we are in deep shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr pats Aldehyde on his head.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if you keep talking about Africa like that I am going to have to question the "intelligent" part of intelligent design.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'africa was fine until empirism started'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'yeah but in the us most people follow rules... in northern africa the people do what they want mostly... regard of rules'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see USA's inflictions on the middle east for a modern analogy'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you mean Libya? Well, the US stirred that crap up :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'regardless even'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'haha :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, what else is in North Africa, let's see... Algeria, Morocco, Tunesia... are they lawless?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'and the congo.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit rich to call them lawless'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'excuse me The  Republic of the Congo is not in N. Africa...'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'ever played farcry? that's almost how it is... not as bad but almost'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'ok then central africa :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tribal africa/middle east were not lawless until we started interfering'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all those wild natives from Africa were just trying to throw the yoke  from the European colonizers, but hey, white is right :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and Abyssinia (modern Ethiopia) are genetically arabs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'h thought this channel would be interesting and fun... :('
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the problem is that intelligent design tanks just about any party :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you guys still goin on about evolution? ffs :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not me :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'goooood'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but that's what Aldehyde wants to talk about :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'no '
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, what I would like to know what is your catalog number :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should stop them from spraying aluminium oxide, barium and strontium into the atmosphere with the pretext of tweaking the weather'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weather is being traded on the chicago mercantile exchange'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i mean, wtf?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'what i want to know is: is abortion right or is it murder'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is no such thing as murder in nature, so it is a matter of human definition. What ever makes your clock tick, so to speak.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'murder is killing for purposes other than eating or defence, surely?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can define murder in nature, even if that species has no legal system to enforce it'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is to note that in natural environments killing is only done for the purpose of feeding.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'i agree with tiger on this one'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but humans are a bit abnormal, maybe you are right about not descending from monkeys, it seems more like intelligent design :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some of us descended from monkeys'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not Ranrr :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'others still are'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'that's the only thing evolution is good for... humor'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what I would like to know is what difference does it make where we come from? I mean, the god-created believe so because it's an ego booster as well as way to absolve themselves, as to the others, I have to wonder. Personally, the topic doesn't hold much interest.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but, I  have to say, if  we don't descend from monkeys, someone played a big joke on them because they look a lot like humans :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why people with darwin symbols on their car, or people who hate religious people on the grounds that the bible isn't a science text book annoy the hell out of me'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the bible is not a science textbook, in fact, it isn't a textbook at all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'they are also the most intelligent animals apart from humans'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's a collection of fables and historical accounts that collectively can be used to teach social skills'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'its the word of God that was written down by his instruments'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and an important for instance'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if, like me, you are upset and/or worried about the way the economy is collapsing and banks are taking the piss'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go read Genesis chapter 47'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I could certainly write a book and claim that I was instructed by a deity to write it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will quickly find that we're repeating history'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well clearly it wasn't written by God, only an idiot would claim it was literally written by God'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, a lot of the "lessons" from the bible originated in India, Phoenicia, and Assiria.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and only an idiot would claim that religious people believe it was written by God'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, all over the place'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'well the difference is... before the bible was put together for the first time... other people didn't know about the other books and they wrote basically the same things'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yeah, we're talking about the very earliest days of written language, for one thing (for the old testament)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole historical context is entirely missing from critical atheists'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that would be true if the "books" of the bible were written in some particular order with the purpose of making it an encyclopedia.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stories were the way people who 'taught''
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'encyclopaedias didn't exist back then'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the concept didn't exist'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole god-fearing aspect probably existed to incentivise people to listen and act'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what we know as the bible today was edited in 322 AD, so we don't really know what it looked like before them. It is certainly not a book the Jews would use as part of the religion since it is not related to the Torah.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'the bible lost a lot of its meaning after it was edited back then... like a lot of the words were changed to mean one things where it had different meaning before'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is true'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bible research groups exist in most religious cultures for this reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and are quite often the target of animosity from elements of the religion they study'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as an anecdotal account of the life 3000 years ago it's a great book to investigate, as a foundation for a religion it leaves a lot to be desired.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Islam, particularly'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and the Jewish religion was not founded on the bible anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're free to start a different one with a stronger foundation, Anaristos :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I rather not start any at all :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'unless you call existentialism a religion :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor would I.... neither am I a practicing religious person'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet i'll always champion free expression of religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am all for expression. But I think the Crusades were a bit over the top, so was the Inquisition...'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those things happen when religious freedoms transgress on other people's freedoms'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like government is doing now'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(freedom of speech, privacy laws etc)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldehyde: 'agreeD'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'religious freedom is an oxymoron, no religion likes free thinkers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not strictly true'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the individual, not the religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really? what religion allows dissent?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dissent!=free thinking'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, but dissent is part of free thinking.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's an oversimplistic analysis'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the bible is full of dissenters'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the bible is full of dissenters'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oops'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no it isn't. No religion allows a member to attack its basic principles, it will allow branching but not transplanting.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree, that's a modern take on it'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you study the stories, you'll find all sorts of dissent, but it's used as a debating/teaching tool'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take your teeth out'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you show me what religion allows people to say "you know what, you are full of shit".'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i recall plenty of references to that sort of thing in the new testament'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and original Islam was extremely welcoming of people of other religions'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the animosity to dissenters is a later thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'the new testament is full of the chosen people ordered to kill those who were not chosen'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'old testament, i meant'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, but old testament, as we already mentioned, is a much wider scope of fables from a wider area, wider pool of cultures, huge temporal scope'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you haven't read the old testament carefully, then.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i will offer this challenge, go read genesis chapter 47 and compare that to what's happening now'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'the old testament is not a book to base on a religion on, having read leviticus'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not long'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Old testament is god killing people. New testament is people killing people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'a book in which people are killed does not make a seemly religion, imho'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, it was god who killed them, but the killing blow was delivered by humans.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the book are fables, stories, object lessons, Ohm, not an instruction book'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It makes for a good religion, since the purpose of religion is to control the masses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'but it became an instruction book.... look at the laws based off the OT'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I wish I could commit a crime and claim that I was carrying out the will of god. Wow, that would be a trip and a half :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ohm nods at Ranrr.
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"I hit him on the head and took his gold 'cos he's a dirty heretic! Why else would he be standing there in front of me with gold if it were not a gift from <deity name>?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'he was a witch, i guess'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or maybe even an infidel, or a heathen!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'thou shalt not suffer a witch to live'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the fact that he's dead sans gold and I'm alive and with gold proves the justice of my cause!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'glad those days are over... mostly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ohm: 'read the witches' hammer'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'math, history, English'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'gt channel over there --->'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'the debate Chan blows.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it doesn't, it sucks!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Wabbit Season!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Tastes Great!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and fuck your little sister too (debate is curse-allowed)'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'I didn't fucking know that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'using maps? never.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you mean, Lot gets drunk and his daughers do him, not vice versa.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yes, yes, a lot of what God was then was filtered through the Jewish society.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Before giving the prohibition, nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'After the prohibition, yep'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'ive always wanted to know what human flesh tastes like'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they say like pork'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'cut of a piece from yourself and try'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'who is this they you speak of?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the same they who says all of those things that they say'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it tastes like soy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Soy is people!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'that would be madness! No one eats themselves! Sinful!'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'pizza the hutt did'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'on a certain level, I would definitely disagree with you there, Grimmjo.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'soy tastes like everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'pizza the hut didn't look very tasty. And neither do I.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'stephen king actually wrote a short story about a guy stranded on a desert island with a medical bag and a lot of heroin, who cannibalized himself'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm yeah rumour has it manson ate himself'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you date a Yoga master and your horizons expand almost indefinitely.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i wouldnt lick my balls for lots of cash.. I do yoga and it doesnt change a thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm hans landa sounds so familiar..'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'wheres chemosh and the nuts guy'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canada's new official (but un-noticed) national misappropriation of tax-payer welfare aid funding in africa is going on again'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.devp.org/en/pressroom/2012/comm2012-08-09'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'here dual citizen or multinational corporation recognized as a canadian citizen, donate some money to this people who will handle it for you, including double from canadian taxes which can't be bothered on canada itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'following last years somalia haiti voodoo witchcraft'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'fuckin crooks if they are what i think they are'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're the kind who mussolini should have gutted in the 1940's'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'even if he had, there would probably be more'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah you're right'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'wouldn't be as well established though'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's just kind of tough not to have government corruption'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'where was the united nations war on terror in africa when there was no wars in the 90's?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'like not eating M&Ms if you work on the assembly line'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'teach the africans how to feed themselves so we don't have to donate yearly tax-double charitys to it'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh there are charities out there that do that'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, they should be more successful by now, since they want international attention for every crises'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'here we go again, this forum seems to have it in for Africa. I wonder if it has anything to do with the high pigmentation content of its people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'one invented a machine for processing nuts, it can be made from concrete and simple molds for around $50 and help feed an entire village'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they would have fixed the problem at least more than they have since then'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'free up the labor force that usually processes them by hand, so that the villages can do more for themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'elegant solutions like that are what I love'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't believe all that money goes to the people who need it for survival there'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not in the least'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, there are a lot of warlords over there who love to steal the aid'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, Cambodia. So instead of concentrating on the fact that it is Africa, wonder why the government doles out the money at all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's the nature of the government who prioritizes football stadiums over livable habitat'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'why would they care about somebody's habitat in africa?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'prioritizes?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if your priorities are 8000 miles away from your land that you represent, there's somethingw arfare about you'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or is it more, maybe 16000'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, you can build football stadiums and help Africa'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, pretty arrogant aren't they'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US, or any other nation that "contributes" to other countries, is not concerned with the welfare of the target population, unless, of course, there is a photo op in progress. Their only concern is to have the target population indebted to them so that they can command them to do as they please.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they turn their own country into unaffordable toxic waste whilet hey help africa'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'with the majority of citizen against their decisions providing the taxes for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well there is also the concern of destabilizing conditions over there...for us'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'can't afford a loaf of bread or rent, even find a job that pays the cost of living, but i don't mind the taxes that add to the cost being spent on africans'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not necessarily indebtedness but if you throw some money at them they might calm down enough to not cause a problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that's most likely not even the case'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you  must view foreign policy in the light of how feudal systems operate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're being taken by evil mafia criminal KGB's and things like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yearly donations like homage to jehovah or something, using african poverty as an excuse'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I guess I can see how a government might pick the selfish solution to a foreign problem that happens also to help, and that's sort of generosity'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but yeah, bend over backwards out of sheer compassion, probably not'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'some people actually do care, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lots of people care, they're taught to care'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if you want examples, the cold war was full of them. All the aid provided by both the US and the USSR war wrappers for control.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's natural to care for starving and sick people with no hope'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that prevents enough questions being asked about how the money is handled'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they demand there is no transparency or verifiability'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that's just after we establish that money is actually going to charity, which i doubt most of it does'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what happenst o independent reporters in africa?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'is there any?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what's the odds of them verifying this money being used as they claim?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'sort of like finding gulf of mexico oil spills in the arctic ocean'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you got some satellites that can see for you maybe'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Chemosh, Africa is not on Mars, it is here on Earth, and it has just what everyone else has. You wonder if they have independent reporters, and I ask you where can you find independent reporters?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'hey, have you ever been to a third world country, Chemosh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then you dont really know what the people over there are like, do you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you know what you read, and what you see on TV, but you don't know'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I've actually been to South America, multiple times, and guess what'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, they actually wear shoes there.'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'all of those poor people over there, they work hard and they are mostly pretty decent people'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'my driving instructer goes on vacation to nicaragua often, says while the people are very poor communism is a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'same percentage of assholes and nice people as there is anywhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they laugh at jokes and have friends, and they are poor'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i wouldn't mind going and verifying things for myself, but they don't let people do that for a reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and they have about as much control over what their government does as we do'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i know about that part of it, their normal members of society try to make the best out of the situation'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yeah, you have to take that into account here'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but normal people aren't people who rule normal people and things like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's the same as it is here, we have our government, they have theirs, we have normal people of about the same character dealing with it, and so do they'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'only over there, where everyone is poor, being poor is just part of life...there's nothing shameful about it, it's not a big deal or a failure if you don't have money'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because no one really does'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you just make the best of it and have fun with your friends, raise your kids'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and work'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and the weather is different and they have fruits and vegetables that you've never seen in the US, the music is different, the culture is deep'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but other than that, it's a place where people live'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you kind of realize that a foreign country isnt that foreign when you go over there and see little kids running around and playing'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'buy fruits and vegetables from a really poor lady trying to get by, and smile as you thank her, and she smiles too'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'people playing volleyball in the streets on Peruvian independence day, girls vs. guys'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's people, man, that is who lives in Africa, that is who lives in Nicaragua, that is who lives in every poor country in the world, people'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'just saying, it's not an abstract situation that we throw the money at, and not an abstract situation that tries to make it work'
T3/r7/2012-09-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's you, if you didn't have the luxury to be born in a rich country where we didn't have to think about that shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Mr Berwanky is queueing up pumping another slab of invented currency into the american economy to lower people's living standards and buying power'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it appears people are waking up to agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EPA are planning a requirement than all new cars do minimum 54mpg by 2025'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck with that'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'G'day Tiggy !'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'whats haps ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'que?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically means people in USA won't be able to buy regular cars after 2025'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except those crap 2-seater microboxes made by Smart that don't steer and kill their occupants in the event of a crash'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if they buy cars they'll be Chinese and forced to buy em becuase the war has the  dollar as the sword and the US is loosing that battle imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most cars are built in China now anyway, the US government handed GM $20bn dollars to move a bunch of productions facilities to China where there is lower wages and no green-fascist based green taxation'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'green china ? lol '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you move for a world green tax ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i'm guessing those 10s of thousands of americans who lost their job in the automotive industry can be glad that their sacrifice allows Al Gore to make more money to save polar bears that, despite having their population explode by 5x since the 50s, apparently can't swim'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i move for the world fucking off and leaving people/countries alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if everyone stopped interfering in everyone else's business, it'd be a much safer place'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I move for a "humanity effectivemess tax" - if you are not effective you are shot ... '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that why the DHS has bought over a billion rounds of hollowpoints this year?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'kill the dole bludgers !'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they are going to implement that policy and know >50% of americans are ineffective as human beings?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz mate you are 50 years too late . they closed concentration camps 50 years too early .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've been opening and preparing fema camps instead. Same shit, different century'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'fema ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'federal emergency management authority'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'got ur daily hummanitarian serve today ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has absolutely no congressional or governmental accountability or oversight'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'army will use the move patriots, republicans, and ethnic/religious minorities to in the event of martial law with the view to re-educating/murdering them'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so we waste humans who aspire to a western life ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're aware of the group "The Weathermen"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yes - dad taught me- from the dylan son - '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'song '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2pMkkXIDrM'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'f-wits just blew emselves up or handed emselves in '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a gumby naturalist terrorism unit - even I could do better'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-InternmentResettlement.pdf'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah they exposed a few feds - so what - they forgot the true enemy and are forgoten for it '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a nice member of the european parliament wrote a letter to me via the local newspaper last week'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pointing out that the laws coming in to monitor everything every citizen does on the internet for government busibodies to nose through is coming because it is EU regulation'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only can our sovereign government not implement it, not only did no democratically elected member put forward this bill, but it also means that data recorded is open to any government in the EU'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gee, but they're all such good people'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is called Echelon an has been destroying patents and out bidding military quotes for years ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is there anywhere left on the planet that someone can go to be free from these scumbags?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yes - sucide '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not a plac'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not a place'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well now you know what I was committed fer '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Smoke weed every day'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'drug testing ? soz Stsr I don't buy it '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might make you feel better, but will only reinforce how screwed we are'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'spree kill ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'highest score in Oz is 38 - I can spend 15 minutes and I garuntee 2-3k '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'highest score of what'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'spreekill total '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that some sort of rating?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no is the amount of humans killed duriing a single hissyfit  - in Oz is 38  - '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a measurement that highlights a lack of focus'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'relied on firearms - gumby - area of effect weapons work better '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're going to take up arms, please make sure you target the enemy and preferably as far away from me as possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'death - wanna work that into man hours labour ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I see more sone - positive and negative  - in terms of love '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but I see the greatest evil done in capatalism imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the name of capitalism maybe'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'communism is "red capitalim"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't blame the world's ills on the free market'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'two certainly aren't the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when I grow sick I will kill as many humans as I can but while I am well I want to try  to find a place where humans do good work ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should look to expend your emotional energy in a more productive way'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'triple bottom line economics ? oldscholl but future ? - economic/environnemants/social ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is the triple b ottom line outdated ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you lost me a while back'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can we make thi ss work ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'read back ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'log ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still doesn't make a lot of sense'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz - really trying  - where did it make sense ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you lost me the moment yous tarted talkinga bout shooting people'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok - lets take a step back from activly kulling. Is there a political theory that would rectify the Ills of society ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no guarantees, but the most likely candidate that would relieve it is libertarianism'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need to return to the baseline of democracy, get the power back to the hands of the electorate and out of the hands of large power-hungry organisations'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok tout leberationism ?  - expand that idea ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the worlds current ills are due to abuses of power'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether political, financial, or military'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'advertisement works - idiots vote - big flaw ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're refering to elections, then the issue also is that the establishment changes the rules over time to ensure it's continuance'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so idiot audit and those that pass vote ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why political parties exist, and why there are two dominant ones'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'won't work'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ur soln ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy what is your solution then ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have one'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best i can do is try and wake people up out of their stupor as to the dangers'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trouble is, you can take a horse to water, you can't make it drink'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'well guess then ? ain't that what it is all about ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you can take this horse to water n it wants an apple tini'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'm operating in a system that doesn't want to be changed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it will resist'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the suggestion that democracy is open, and ideas and speech is free is a complete fallacy'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the system pushes back at every opportunity'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm operating in a system where a lot of soft targets are fucking my planet  up and I have the means to destroy them before I become fretalizer too .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pen is mightier than the sword'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The penis mightier!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the second you fire the first shot, you lose the moral highground and the argument with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as I said - advertisement works and idiots vote ... '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no I am beyond that - I just want a few less planet suckers '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Tell breeders to stop breeding'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm against that - there's a time and a place for taking up arms, and this isn't it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah - shoot em '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Shitting out some kids is the most eco-unfriendly thing a person can do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my menoor is all like " every human life is an opportunity" but seriously - shoot em ? chances I'm right are pretty strong I'm killing a waste of oxygen '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is there some way id telling a waste of oxygen from another ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's your problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can't spell but I'lll pull the trigger '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably should learn to spell before you go around pulling triggers'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what do you suggest we kull Tiggy ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kull?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm eye of the tiger'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my eyes are rubbish, but of none of your concern'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'but your nuts work well! Who wants to shoot lil children?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your government, apparently, but specifically Bill Gates'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'oh yeah when the people were striking and got shot.. Bill Gates owns the mob'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bill gates wants people who refuse vaccines to be forcibly vaccinated'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with the fact he has so much money invested in big pharma'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'vaccines for?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything and everything, irrespective of the need, effectiveness, or safety'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'shrugs, I can see his point although I disagree with him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'is it lies and insinuations time again? I must've missed the notice...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm his philantropy is a scheme'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, Bill Gates philanphropy, it's a bit like 'military intelligence''
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'department of defence'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'its like invading a country.. Just that you become addicted to drugs *vaccines*'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ask the 47,000 permanently paralysed kids in India what they think of Bill Gates' philanphropy'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'so its a 'i came to fix the kitchen sink' but im really here to see what i can steal in your house type of thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i certainly won't be taking a flu shot this year'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'who takes flu shots anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they 'reccommend' them here for the elderly and certain risk groups'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'people who live or work with small children, the elderly, and the immunocompromised, for sure.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one should balance the risks and costs of taking a fly shot with the risks and costs of getting the flu and possibly dying/getting hit by a car while stumbling across the road to the doctor'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'we dont get that here.. If you are old you dont need them.. You are basically dead already'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'wash your hands and make sure everything around you is clean'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems to be trolling by stating that Bill Gates investment in Big Pharma is independent of Bill Gates position on vaccinations -- Tigernuts is not to be trusted'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scuse me?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... zade seems to be completely failing at reading, yet again'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i never said such a thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"[02 Sep 12:28:16] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with the fact he has so much money invested in big pharma'"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'failing at detecting sarcasm, for sure.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry, i forgot - you're AMerican, you don't understand the concept of sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I think he's canuck iirc'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then he has no excuse for being a retard'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'leave zade alone... '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You fall to the floor laughing at EspadaSix Grimmjo's remark.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE!!!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be the fluoride in the water'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh no, not the fluoride again...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'cant help it if zade is, challenged okay? Zades are people too! Even if they come from the toilet'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nonsense, Canada's a lovely place'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in a debate, take things seriously at face value -- "sarcasm" is disallowed  -- what seems to be "sarcasm" may in fact be a seriously intended statement (especially if intended to deceive the voting mental retards in the audience)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, it deceived you, eh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, I accept your apology, Zade, I'll make sure to highlight sarcasm in some way in the future to help your understanding'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope -- the interpretatio is that Tigernuts is not mentally competent in demagoguery'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'zade everyone has an opinion! Fortunately yours doesnt matter..'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Grimmjo, your opinion is irelevant'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'its like 1916 all over again'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'irrelevant'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what makes you think I'm a demogogue?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Your mom doesn't matter!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'spend enough time looking at the stuff that people seriously claim, and your sarcasm detection tends to fail...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'look at the republicans!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'if it was why did you even bother pointing it out? Whats your point? Sharper than mine eh? Lets just be blunt mkay'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'next you'll be claiming Obama isn't a closet communist'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'take it to barter chan'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i love you too Starling'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, if I didn't know tigernuts, I'd have thought that was sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's not a closet communist...he's open about that }:>'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i should have appended a tongue-in-cheek tag, sonshi, but unfortunately it does appear to be true'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if you aren't sure, you can always say 'are you serious?!' :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'are you cereal?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'are you serious?!?!!!11!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'hell, that's what I'd say about akin :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'are you serious!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'GTFO!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'TITS'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vixsin perks up and stares intently at Dispel Majic.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Stephen Colbert was acting like a ludicrous republican as a form of "sarcasm" -- and the republicans learned to put forth ludicrous platforms with a serious face'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Starling should make a John McEnroe social.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'My good sir/madam, you cannot possibly be serious! It simply isn't cricket!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'WTF!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the republican convention would've been amusing if I didn't know they were serious... Obama promised to keep this factory (closed since the bush years) open, and did he?! Nooo!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the republican convention is a stage show for clowns mainly to perpetuate the ignorance contained within'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I ran a sub 3hr marathon! Okay, it was one marathon and it was over 4hrs, but hey, it's pretty close!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'your mama!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was stage managed, telepropmtered, and about as transparent and rigged as a WWE/WWF wrestling match'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as Goibels (sic) said "repeat a lie often enough, and the lie becomes the truth"  -- corollary: "speak in sarcasm often enough, and the sarcasm is no longer sarcasm but a serious platform"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'wwe is kinda gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, I will balance the budget with my tax plan, which presumes that I will cut discretionary spending to an extent that implies eliminating much of our armed forces. Also, I will make sure our armed forces are strong, unlike that aethist commie muslim who wants to cut military spending'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'platformed your mama'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I give Ryan a lot of props for doing p90x. I tried it - it's fucking hard! :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when is the next clown freak show, the Virginia one?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Yay! reduce military spending! Also, increase military spending!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least the democrats don't lie too blatantly...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they don't contradict themselves in the same paragraph too often'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't a certain someone promise the first thing he'd do would be to close Guantanemo bay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could have sworn he said he wouldn't get involved in illegal wars'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but he took a lot longer to contradict that, see...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though that might have been the NWO toerag in charge of the parliament that pretends to represent me'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I would vote for Obama if I thought he could get the US's marijuana laws reformed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I.e. legalize and tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama has been directly opposing such moves'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If he could pull that off, I'd vote for him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'The thing about Obama... when he goes against what he has said in the past, it's usually for a good reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Not closing GBay is practical'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'As much as it disgusts me'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and has been directly intefering in states that have changed laws at a state level, sending in federal troops/flunkies to overrule state law'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'huh? :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least it was possible to do what he promised to do at the time he promised... we know that the republicans often have absolutely no intention of carrying through at the moment they said it... That's quite a difference in the quality of the lie.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both party's foreign policies are jokes'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'No :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'US foreign policy is doing okay right now, I would say'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'quite one thing to promise to do something and later decide it's a bad idea, and another to promise two contradictory things'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'There will always be problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'But massive fuckups? Right now? No.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arming jihadi's in Syria is salient foreign policy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Yep'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Been doing that for over 50 years now'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same jihadi groups that they have circumvented all our freedoms because of?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Your freedom? :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Please tell me more!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I didn't realize you lived in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i have to put up with a surveillance state because of that'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Then move'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to where?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not allying yourself with revolutionary factions pretty much guarantees that they'd go ally with the jihadis...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Anywhere you can't log on to aardwolf :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and there are likely supporters of Bill Gates that are likely to state seriously that "the wisdom of Bill Gates' opinions on vaccinations are unaffected by his financial position in Big Pharma" -- they may even quote Tigernuts were that on (say) Twitter ("Even opponents of Bill Gates agree that Bill Gates is fair and totally unbiased. Here is Tigernuts ..." )'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Quadrapus attempts to explain away his thoughtless comments to Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'We need a president who will get pot legalized.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'good luck waiting for that'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you had the chance at that, but the GOP and their paymasters rolled out every dirty trick in the book to prevent that chance'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'good luck getting the potheads off their asses long enough to vote }:>'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'wasn't I supposed to do something today?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'I occasionally use cannabis. I also vote in every election I can.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'whoa whoa whoa you started this debate without me WTF?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'legalize pot, tax the shit out of it, to get potheads to vote just suggest there might be free joints at the poll booths'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'stoners don't forget anything about free weed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck getting that past either party'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't really fit with their policy of controlling everything you do/say/think'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'legalising it would certainly help save some money for the govt... given that with porous borders and crappy enforcement, they can't really get it under any sort of control'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'I guarantee you if it were an actual, real issue on the ballot, the combination of word-of-mouth and social media would generate an enormous turnout by pot smokers. But yeah, it will never be possible as long as it is federally a schedule 1 substance'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'given the great success of the war on drugs ... I think what we need is a war on education...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Nixed is agreeing with that Dispel Majic person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it HAS been an actual, real issue on the ballot...lots of times'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'lol, we just need to make the weed dealers as violent as the bootleggers'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well good luck, you have an education sytem that teaches kids that they are scum, that criticising the president is illegal, and polar bears can't swim'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'wait they can?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'took a lot of pain before the state gave up and legalised alcohol... it's probably going to take quite a bit of time for this too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Hundreds of kilometers!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a polar bear is just a rectangular bear after a coordinate transform'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'i thought they were magnetic'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pot was only criminalised because of people in the cotton industry'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'It's amazing how well they swim. Actually their Latin name is Ursus Maritimus, which means "sea bear"!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'also, puritanism'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Polar bears are amazing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'you mean the wood pulp industry right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'puritanism. The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be having fun.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, pensioners have to freeze to death because of Al Gore'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'it's just pretty silly that alcohol is legal and pot isn't. and it's even more absurd that the US federal government truly keeps cannabis as a schedule 1 substance with "no medical value"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You raise your eyebrow at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers at you intently. 
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'frankly I would rather deal with potheads than drunkards. '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vorpal Vorpes: 'with no medical value even though there is a handful with legitimate _federal_ prescriptions'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so would most police'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'no one ever got high and beat their wife'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'blaming the UK's poor decision making and cargo-cult economic policy on al gore?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nah, nixed, he just ate all her nachos.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'need a bit more context on gore's impact on the heating bills of UK pensioners'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is doing the same thing, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'suuure...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: '"Let me hit this bong and then go abuse my family" said no one ever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not true, nixed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the background is fuel poverty is rapidly increasing in the UK because fuel prices are rocketting'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but definitely not as prevalent as alcohol for that reaction'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuel prices are rocketing because of taxation and subsidy policy predicated on pretty dodgy climate change policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all related to UN agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'claims about 'no one ever' are problematic'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You nod at Dispel Majic.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You can't blame al gore that oil is a limited resource'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'It was a hyperbole to prove a point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in parts of America, power stations are being shut down for much the same reason, shoving up energy prices'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the UK didn't have tons of unemployed, they'd have no problem taking care of their own.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'but yeah, if you're getting high and acting abusive, you most likely have a fundamental psychological/personality issue probably related to addiction and/or anxiety and you need help regardless of substances you're taking'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also, in america, people are being dispossed from the land they own because of zoning being put in under the guise of Agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'unfortunately, it ended up being an incorrect statement trying to be a hyperbole'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'almost all hyperbole is "incorrect" when taken strictly. that's the point of a hyperbole.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'What's Agenda 21?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, hyperbole is an exaggeration'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'would exaggerations not technically be "incorrect" when stating factual points?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"herbole" - looks in the dictionary -- been years since that word was seen'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3qW2XJZdSA'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'idiots guide to agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"hyperbole"  but is there "hypobole"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Only an idiot thinks this is a problem :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which, q?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'The idea that the UN could impose anything on the US that is against our interests is laughable'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN already controls your military'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Dude'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Nixed scrunches up his face at Tigernuts cuz Nixed is totally baffled by Tigernuts!
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Okay, I won't even go there :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'wheres my car?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Let's just say my family works for the 2nd largest military industrial corporation in the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'And I know you have no idea what you're talking about :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Yep, it's a fortune 50'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'the jews?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did Congress aprove US military action in Libya?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'the executive branch did'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... and it wasn't a war.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjrYeAqjB-Y'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least, the US intervention wasn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'The US has been manipulating world markets for a hundred years to attain and maintain a dominant economic position'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'There is no way they would give that up for any UN agenda'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'was it for the chicken wings?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the global banks have a different idea, Quad'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'The global banks are in our pocket'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'Quadrapus, I read an interestingt book a few years ago called Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. heard of it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Nope, never'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides, you don't have one anymore - china, russia and others are already starting oil trades and other commodity trades in non-US currency. The dominance of the petrodollar is at an end'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, in the pocket of your upper class, but...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'From then on it'll be pterodollar, not petrodollar!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it will be a long time before another currency will supplant the USD as the main reserve currency'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it will'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but your country is propped up on that fact'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if not for the petrodollar, you'd be Greece right now'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'till people catch on '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at the earliest, it would end if and when china manages to fully liberalise its monetary system...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'and spain'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'By liberalize, do you mean giving a private company the right to print money?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nonsense, countries with independent central banks which print their own currency and are industrialised have no problem with debts of that size'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm, sonshi, riiight'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'duh! With more debt you can print more money'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'meaning, fully drop convertibility barriers, transparency of the monetary system, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so in Obama's next cabinet he'll be drafting in the former Iraqi Information Minster to be his press secretary in the white house'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"There is no debt, all talk of a large government debt is a conspiracy theory"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Ahem, let us recall that "minister" means "servant" in Latin.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a laugh in itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so, according to Sonshi, if Greece is industrialised, Greece merely requires to be independent and print their own money, and no problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a large govt debt really doesn't cause panics until it gets much larger... it would cause social problems long before it causes budgetary problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as the countryis (whatever I mentioned before)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Debt means nothing if you print your own money...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'off to eat my government-approved salad, later'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'transparency? Id be so dead, many many years before that happens'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, forgot one last important point... issues debt in its own currency'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'otherwise, you're argentina'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you print drachma but owe pesos... and owe a lot... you're screwed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you print yen and owe yen, there's little problem, financially.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'that doesn't always hold true'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Huan: 'you are screwing someone any time you print money. Your own citizens for example'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'or put your organs on the line, if you make debt then you lose a kidney'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'the valuation of the currency is dying, which means the REAL purchasing power of your populace is dying'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why I said that the social problems would get you long before the budgetary ones'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'yeah, but the social problems are pretty significant'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not until you get to a large multiple of gdp...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'You can't screw up your budget if you can just issue money to pay the debt, right? I feel like I'm missing something.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'you can't just "issue money to pay the debt". money creation through fractional reserve banking (how it works in the united states) carries inherent debt with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'social problems are either based on military power or monetary power.. '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'so every time you are creating money, you are creating additioanl debt'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at 1.5, you start to distort income equality... at 2, you would need to adjust taxation in a way that saps your economy's health... you get adverse distributionary effects'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or thereabouts'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Wait, what, so the whole monetary system in US is based on debt?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: '.. as all the money is issued.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'yes, the entire monetary system is based on debt. this isn't even a hidden fact'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'money issued is debt that will (almost definitely) never be repaid, in some sense'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): EspadaSix Grimmjo drops to the floor and hails Cizra!
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Wait, what do you guys have then if you owe all your money?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and no one expects it to be repaid, since trading with cash is a lot easier than trading with sacks of potatoes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'And what's the point of calling it a debt if it's never repaid?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just a technicality'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'you invade a country for... Its oil?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'actual printed currency doesn't give any interest, after all. Bonds/T-bills do (may) though... which is why that is a concern...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'bonds and t-bills currently offer like 0.0001% interest'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in some countries, interest has gone negative'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Sonshi did not yet explain the 1.5 or 2 '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're back to paying the govt to hold their money safely...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'but what do you do if you owe more than you have? Pay bit by bit?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ballpark figures...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nonsense figures'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): EspadaSix Grimmjo slaps Zade.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so what if you owe more than you have? Keep in mind that a country's govt represent the country...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and debt more than what a country's govt has is a lot less than what a country has...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'pity you cant just say its okay you dont have to pay'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... default can be an option... but it's not one that is in a country's interest to take if the debt is in its own currency'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and default isn't even as bad as it sounds, if it's well managed. See argentina, iceland...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it was hell, but they recovered/is recovering'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'default is a great way to devalue everyone's savings/property'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only those of the creditors!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nuh uhh'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and if the yield is high, you should know that you're taking a risk'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you default on your debt, either your borrowing rates will skyrocket, or you simply won't be able to borrow'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'and just SMITE them of everything of value'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, countries only default when the situation is bad enough that the effects of increased rates are worth it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means suddenly you have no option but to either print more currency (hence causing hyperinflation) or seriously cut back. Not the crappy salami slicing austerity western europe is doing, but major retrenchment'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obviously you aren't going to default just whenever you feel like it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, just look at what iceland did...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well sure, you default at a time designed to take as many other countries with you as possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'straight to hell'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US and Europe have already ruled out the Iceland approach by giving bankers huge amounts of cash for no return'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'after raising taxes, mostly on the wealthy, aiding the poor, etc., they are on a recovery path'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the US issues debt in USD. Which it prints.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'iceland owned people stuff which weren't in icelandic crowns/kronur/whatever'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Grimmjo does not seem comprehend who owes who in regard to the monetary system ("just say you don't have to pay" -- simple, Grimmjo burns his currency and the government does not require to pay Grimmjo.)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and the collapse of iceland's banks, or even if the whole country disappeared from existence, wouldn't have had much of an impact on the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least, it wouldn't have risked a chain reaction collapse that no one could control...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when more money is printed, the value of money is diluted -- real-estate and oher tangible assets increase in value relative to the diluted currency'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we know, it's called inflation'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Huan: '... and usually blamed on greedy capitalits driving up their prices'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"[02 Sep 13:33:04] (Debate) Tigernuts: 'default is a great way to devalue everyone's savings/property'" -- how does "default" devalue "property"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you being deliberately stupid?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No personal attacks please, that kind of crap ruins the mud'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "real-estate property" is a tangible asset, which if held onto retains value'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that isn't true'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'anytime they talk about money they should include a bernard shaw disclaimer quoting his amazing support of the side of world war 2 that isn't mentioned in history'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they = the government and the bank and stuff like that, name their affiliation with his plans and stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the value of a piece of property is the amount that people are prepared to pay for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that and technology, justify your existance in a automated world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK government are pulling all kinds of strings at the moment to prevent a collapse in house prices'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Chemosh "rewriting" WW2 history'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no, somebody else wrote it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'should make a new biker gang called the gulags and see if anybody hates you like a nazi'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they don't mention the allied side of things being at least 4x worse than the nazi's'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'interesting, 4x worse'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and the allied side of things is ruling the world today'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not counting 1940-1960, shady gulag operations'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'did they make death camps in germany after the war was won for non-jews?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they didn't make death camps in germany at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like they didn't make any in pop-history at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good ol' Hitler, at least he had nice people like the Bush and the Rockefeller family to bankroll his crazy experiments on ethnic minorities'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe God may do something, or maybe not -- the planet earth may be likened to a "petri dish" experiment -- what matters if the microbes called humans do a few bad things, if the ends justify the means and "alls well that ends well"  (flush?) '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i heard in a speech by hitler that his government never will persecute minorities, i wonder how he worked around that'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's hard for fictional characters to affect the real world.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the kgb leader of transnistria on the other hand, rules a nation that is anti-roma'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and the kgb's a direct descendent of the gulag that didn't operate in germany from 1945 (or so)-1960'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or poland'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also, tzar romanov was anti-semetic'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'according to what i read, he was a world war 1 guy'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the polish deserved a lot of bad karma'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they got it, germany attacked themselves and pinned it on them as a pretext to invading'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sound familiar? USA's been doing much the same thing ever since'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there may be a karmic God after all'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(but when does Great Britain pay for the crimes committed) (or are there special-dispensations indulgences exemptions to karma)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'most world war 2 veterans see that their forced to go to war to protect the freedom and stuff they were told they're protecting, to prevent future wars and things like that, that i heard from, see that their efforts resulted in nothing at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think we're enjoying ourselves right now, zade? every good-minded british citizen now suffers'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'most of them veterans (if from europe, and on the allied side) either went and shot at germans or else were shot by their commanding officers, and their families possibly discharged in a death-camp'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems there are a lot of loopholes to karma'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that was their initiative for war, along with the campaign tactics used in the movie 'enemy at the gates''
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canadians and americans had no choice about it, the military police were heavily armed and outnumbered their disorganization, pluse they were told hitler was invading the west'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and canada was a territory of britain, who hitler claimed wouldn't assist in diplomatic resolutions with the problems with poland'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you call that "suffering" -- some humans in disadvantaged locations bare likely to call that "suffering" "luxury"  -- xchan'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if you look up Sasha, who's the boy playing both sides in the movie 'enemy at the gates', he's also a CIA mole installed by the KGB'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so i ask sometimes who killed sasha, since they're supporting the monsterous nazi image'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'movie fiction is fiction'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'movie fiction is often based on fact'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but some of it obviously has an intelligent design behind it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Kill Bill" was based on fact ?!?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like if you watch the movie rush hour 2, where did they come up with that saying, while the woman's being spied on changing in her apartment (the secret service or something), that the shah of iran was awarded a US currency printer by the happy oil corporations who now had more oil to drill?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest bourne film has a lot of stuff in it that is based on real CIA projects'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Chemosh, you watch "Robot Chicken"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'governments and corporations alike use movies to plant ideas, place products, and influence behaviour'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no, south park and the simpsons are my only cartoons'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'get a free preview on ToonE and ToonW with Bell satellite until September 30'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what kind of idea was the government planting in the hollywood movie about buying weapons from egypt  to provide to afghanistan as they fought the russians, while the senator was snorting cocaine in las vegas?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a normal day in parliament'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'strange kind of idea to plant, at least part of it seems to have happened'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Chemosh, stick to Documentaries, you don't seems to be able to handle "fiction"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the parts about snorting cocaine was fiction'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you can't hate on the russians much for selling ak-47's to the opponents of american interests when you consider that america did the same to them'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they use eachother to justify eachother'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surprised Russia and China aren't acting more against the American threat in Syria. They certainly have justification to'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canada reports it's not concerned about counterfeit electronics from china being installed in military hardware in america and things like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'counterfeit?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they don't have to'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the selling of ak-47s to terrorists is likely definitely a crime against humanities'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they're all conspiring to ruin the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, bbc reported on it, the parts weren't made by who they were supposed to be'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poor old Humanities, History and Geography never get the breaks'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the highest levels of power have a plan that only the most paranoid can see, a plan to take what they can and kill the rest of us, causing total global annihilation'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Geography "gets" the teutonic breaks'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the rumour'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, so we're all screwed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wish they'd hurry up and get on with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no one is listening and we're all going to die'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we got it already'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18155293 China fake parts 'used in US military equipment''
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right right like I said, all screwed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'most military equipment is remotely controllable now, and that's all controlled by non-fake parts'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's as bad, chemosh, is there are often 'back doors' in the hardware'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you can't fight it, they are too powerful and everyone is too oblivious to band together against it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't worry, Quadrapus is on the inside, he'll stop them'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what with Yuna on the lookout for our liberties, what have you got to fear?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'america import's it's lethal injection chemicals from europe, so it's questionable how much intelligence they actually have to make thos things for themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I'm sure America as a whole can figure out how to make lethal injections'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, are you serious?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i read it on bbc'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you know what'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you need to stop reading the fucking news'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they could use one of their military diploma's for making it for cheaper than it costs to import it, but i guess that would be a waste of time'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'America imports boatloads of stuff that they know how to make...it's less work to buy something than it is to make it...America has been steadily getting out of the manufacturing business for the past 30 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and how is that smart?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how is it not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's coming back to bite them on the arse, since the only thing left for them to do is..... annex the countries that make things'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in 70 years they will be too stupid to do anything, like a 3rd world country'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not every country needs to produce goods'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, it has nothing to do with knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you have no clue what is going to happen to America in 70 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there won't be an America in 70 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we know how, we have the technology. we don't WANT to bother ourselves with doing the work'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'countries require to provide jobs for the populace or to provide welfare'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, Tiger...the Brits have been saying that same line for 230 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hasn't been a Britain for 40 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(most 3rd world countries have bad education and poor work choices)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'jobs != manufacturing jobs'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'even in chile and nicaragua and some places in south america i read about people's bid for better education so they can comprehend things for themselves is rejected'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there have been Brits, however'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and it looks like america and canada are working on dumbing down education as much as possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'a lot more people over there live like they used to'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7lW5hJw6-8'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'in the big city things are quite civilized actually'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so if that's what happens in places with poor education, then what is the purpose of making people stupid?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'Lima has 8 million people and it's a real city'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'people get educated over there and live in a city, just not everyone'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Abelinc, not everybody is able to be a Information Technology worker -- and the USA may be farming that work out to cheaper countries'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Zade: not everything which is not manufacturing is IT'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot have a sustainable economy based on the service industry and public sector'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Chemosh: your personal definition of "making people stupid" doesn't matter much'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't work'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's not personal, other people see it too, even a new york times editor'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'according to your vast macroeconomic experience?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abe, dumbing people down is part of the agenda'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7lW5hJw6-8 details it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the graaaand agenda to ruin the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not the world, just the industrialised world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, and according to youtube rhetoric videos...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'to make us all slaves to the incomprehensible machine run by the powerful people in suits'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Abelinc envisions several hundred million Americans doing what -- waiting in line at soup kitchens ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'why believe you're in control?  if you were conquering people with ignorance and pride you would want them to think they're in control'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be no soup kitchens, the american government likes to shut down independent groups that help others, or subvert them like the black panthers'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think there's enough people who verify their beliefs, sort of like religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I know right?  it's all a big lie meant to keep us placated'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Zade: we've had entire states with good unemployment rates without manufacturing for decades'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so they can ruin our lives'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'we hear you already'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sorry, "subvert them like the black panthers"...was that talking about the BPs as a group to help others?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you know what else they love?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'paranoid conspiracy theorists'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would need to look at the the history of the BP to understand that, abe'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, YOU would need to look at the history of the BP to understand'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no U!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they were a thug gang from day one'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh right, now that you've said it, it's true'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they did considerable humanitarian work, primarly in poor, black communities'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, like all gangs'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as long as you're on our side, we'll help you'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's not humanitarian'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you mean, after the GBI cointelpro program?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I only formed MY gang because those OTHER gangs are evil...we gotsta protect our own, man'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'powerless structures like the royal canadian legion or the elks or lions clubs do charity work to better the lives of the poor, at no benefit to themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'politicians and real-power structures do it to gain the support of a personality trait'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the gain is better than the cost '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Free Breakfast for Children Program'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Chemodsh, do not use "sarcasm," that last statement about structured clubs looked like a serious fact -- (powerless?)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not a socialist, i don't agree with much of their political program, but the fact remains, they went out into their communities to try and do good'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there was no sarcasm in his statement'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since when are those structured clubs "powerless"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is a political party if it isn't a gang?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tigernuts: so did the nazis :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jesse Ventura even wrote a book about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're still not a humanitarian group'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the members might be powerful people, but as a group they spend their group-earnings entirely on giving - that i seen, that and whatever staff they require who aren't driving around in limousines'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said they were a humanitarian group, abe'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'those kind of groups i don't mind'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a group that does humanitarian work != a humanitarian group'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'humanitarian, terrorist, depending on the view -- what's the difference  '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'oh, so by your definition of "a group that helps others", you really mean every single group that has ever existed'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there has never, ever, ever, ever been a single group that diden't help others'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so as long as they give 1 loaf of bread to one person, they're all roses and sunshine and should be left alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty vapid statement, groups tend to help themselves or others like them'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is what the BPs did'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, and if the group makes a million loafs of bread and gives 1 loaf to 1 person then they're different than the one who gives all the loaves to people'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the government saw them as a threat to the status quo and shut them down'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they were a threat'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so good, we're on the same page then'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'except for the ones that pay the moderately paid staff and rent on their building and utilities, which might come from their own pockets sometimes, membership fees'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is the reason america has two and only two political parties of electable size'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is a similar reason to the very small number of global banks in existance'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'america has two and only two parties of electable size because that's truly where the populace sits'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and why in every major industry the number of major players is diminishing'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's a different kind of group, different than going to church to get ahead in your social hierarchy too - but they're going extinct'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's bull, abe, and you know it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no it isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if everyone liked the fringe parties, they wouldn't be fringe'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the number of people who vote for A to prevent B from getting in is huge'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's no different in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the populace has consistently chosen to stick with the parties'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'parties A and B even bank on it and target that in their advertising campaigns'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'leader of a nation should know what's best for it and it's people too, and be understood by it's citizens, who are represented by that person'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the parties have changed over the years, they haven't been the same A and B...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what is being represented in the citizens, that they understand by their master?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but the populace has ALWAYS polarized into A and B'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether they're the same A and B is largely irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'ignorance = nothing'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it isn't irrelevant at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the parties know that people are dumb and will stick to their A and B paradigm'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'health care by obama seems alright, people can comprehend that'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you can't go from one A and B to a DIFFERENT A and B without usurping an existing A or B'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're claims say that we cannot usurp A and B'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, you can'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'C can't become A or B without being a valid, sustainable C'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you just change the platform of A or B. Labour party did it here very successfully in the 1990s'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not talking about one party changing its stance'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'too simplistic an explanation -- what explanation, there was no explanation; merely a "that is the reason that ..." -- there was a reason? -- did not see any reason there; merely empty verbosity'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're not talking minor policy adjustments'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm not talking about policy adjustments of any scale'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll never be a credible third party in either UK or US because of the way the system works, and the system will not change because the system resists change'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'there have been credible third parties, tigernuts...any statement to the contrary is ignorant of history'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'our existing two parties were distant third parties in the past'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like watching this aljazeera documentary on honduras and federal aid to their government, whose police , according to the civilians interviewed, routinely murder and extort the civilians there'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can you tell me when the last time a third party won the UK election?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in the UK? nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're asking for the federal aid to honduras to be cancelled, and the budget cuts in american government never consider the honduran democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in a war on drugs or something, are drug-cartels really more evil than the government that people say is funded by america, and does most of the crimes there?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'A more accurate statement in the U.S. is that: although third parties may gain / lose power, there will never be more than 2 major parties in the U.S. as long as we continue the first-past-the-post voting system'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Exactly.
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1918'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i liked reading about this summit of the america's on bbc around january, where several south and central america nations were trying to rebuild the prohibition program and war on drugs, who stand to gain alot from narcotics being left illegal'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and even then, it wasn't really a 3rd party'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what changed after 1918?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, if it wasn't party A or B, then it was a 3rd party'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they stand to gain alot more fortunes by peddling drugs to america illegally, and they want to fix the problem that is worth more than money to them, then why does america ignore them , when it costs them money?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rebranding'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you agree then, it was absolutely a third party'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Cain killd Abelinc :P
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i don't'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and i bet you can find some heroine or cocaine in just about any district in america, to justify the war on drugs - who sells it to people is usually pretty evil though isn't he?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was party B'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'too bad party B (and the guy that lost on their ticket) disagree with you'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: ''federal budget cuts', they should really analyze some of these things more'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Chemosh is shooting "blanks" -- the Chemoh queries are currently without pertinent answers -- hence "blanks"'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/leaders-rethink-the-war-on-drugs-at-summit-of-the-americas/article4100472/'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/faultlines/2012/08/201281381310569607.html '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, a summit, then business as usual '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'Is the US lending financial support to a police force and army linked to a campaign of extra-judicial killings?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, my dad went to Honduras with the air force building cisterns & such...when he was there, he mentioned that the airbase at Soto Cano was the largest single purchaser of gatorade :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the people in the video, from a nation where most reporters wind up dead if they report on anything, don't want american aid to their government, and they're apparently ordinary people and not drug dealers'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but somehow a us senator snorting some cocaine while buying weapons from egypt to provide to afghanistan in hollywood history is more important to prevent than the desires of people assisted by your wisdom'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'federal cuts and things like that, rollback programs'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they really don't include very much prioritization and explaination in their decisions'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could solve the US budget crisis in a heartbeat. Stop invading the rest of the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what's romney campaigning about, some waste of money health care plan by obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the one he wrote?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'other stuff too i imagine, depending what the local voters want'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'american voters think it's ok to have their politicians kiss israel's ass as a top priority, instead of kissing the dead woman's ass ran over by a military bulldozer violating UN boundaries '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it was a warzone, there you go , aren't you satisfied'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there you go, UN like sending their bullies to trounce on soverein nations'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's almost ironic, how that chinese tank stopped for the protestor in that one video'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'those evil chinese people obviously know their PR better than israel'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taste The Alestorm: 'P-thief rules all the others drool!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'zade: then you don't understand what gives you defense...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, Deaf preschooler told to change his signed name because it 'resembles a gun''
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'im afraid to use channels i dont want to be gagged!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would you be gagged'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'ur 2 dum 2 uze chanlz d00d sry 2 say'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'cause im bad! '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've seen those signs at amusement parks that say you have to be taller than (insert character here) to ride'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'six?:p'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on debate you need to be as left wing as Yuna to use it'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'stop personal attacking me starling!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'cant help it if im dum okay!'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'aye, what about those signs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Give Way signs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make good decorations for your basement'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm he set me tells a few times but i didnt pay attention...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'they are made from cardboard right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tells are made from cardboard?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'basement? What basement? Why would you need a basement to put signs in? Basements are used to bury the bodies of those you killed is it not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'the signs? '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern roadsign are made from plastics, older ones (now mostly nicked) are made from steel frame and aluminium sign ody'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'economy is about to implode, which is why none of your currency has any form of valuable metal in them, unlike the past'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is going on right now across the developed worlds is akin to stretching an elastic band, wondering at which point it will break'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'like my attacks they implode! Thats true.. Cause once all the gold and platinum is mined... We have to wait for the sun to explode eh'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could probably find more rare heavy metals on asteroids'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'a cheaply made elastic band made of part rubber and part paper.. But then again everyone gets stretched lately..'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone's bottom gets stretched by the globalists' tax truncheon'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'thats true but thats more crystalized and such.. Its not that warm in space'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'geez i know right! Like whats totally fucked is eg.. You have 10bucks you get taxed 2.. You pass that 8bucks to your kid and they get taxed 2 aswel... No way out'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since when are gifts taxed -- which country is Grimmjo trolling from'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I'm sorry but wouldn't they get taxed 1.6 bucks?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'when everything had a value put on it and you had to pay a sum plus the value thats just like robbery but its just part of life'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'yeah Gregor 1.6 my bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'zade you arent getting it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Grimmjo is trolling - badly - not very convincingly'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'dont personal attack me zade:('
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unlikely that South African kids are smart enough (or stupid enough) to fill out tax returns to pay tax on what the parents spend on them'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'you still dont get it... Zade'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Grimmjo's imaginary kids may be an exception, attempting to file imaginary tax forms '
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Canada is more advanced and more civilised than South Africa'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'thats true but atleast we dont get shat on by every american tv show.. Which is broadcasted around the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Canadian parents get tax deductions for their children, and the children do not require to file taxes on their allowances'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'we might not be advanced.. We say we are SOUTH AFRICAN in every state.. We dont say we are canadian on the left and we are french on the right..'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'is that it? Seriously?'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can't go to the store and have yourself get up and start playing at some time while you are away.'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'or can you?  LETS DEBATE IT'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything here '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'really finding it hard to appreciate that every life is special.. mentor said (again) today how the funneral bell tolls for us all because we have lost another opportunity? anyone got an opinion ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so is that for whom the bells toll?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Milton or mettallica - yep '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'funerals are for the living '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'how about Hemmingway?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'agree / disagree ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what is a good start for Hemmingway appreciation ? I try and avoid works from ppl that sucide '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'generaly not a good well to drink from if you catch my meaning ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or is it ? perhaps to learn from mistakes ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, his books gave a good view of the world prior to WW II.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz - mind racing again - practicing       mindfullness but only last seconds atm '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so man and the sea ? or something - soz amirican lit is not big in Oz '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'deb and the Really shocking spelling is a sideeffect - I swear !'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll google but you have a fav ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol are you getting " don't encourage her to stay here " tells or am I being paranoid ? :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Hemmingway wasn't a favorite of mine but A Farewell to Arms and Death in the Afternoon come to mind.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is sorta a must know for lit tho ? Hemmingway ? - ok I'll read that one so I've at least made an effort '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Death in the Afternoon is a historical nobel about the death of Spain's legendary bullfighter Manolete.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'novel*'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he died in the ring.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but back to the bell toling - can you find redeeming features in everone ? - the non diseny version please ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'feeds into Hemmingways death fixation ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I can believe that there is always something redeemable in everyone.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a soul ? are you Xtian ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'anyway, it's my bedtime :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'thanks for the input mate - dream well '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'thanks :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i was watching this show on tv lastnight and this bloke like killed these women.. Chopped their heads off and buried them like outside the kitchen window where he can 'see them and they wont run away' some people are evil'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no ur wrong - Nicea  put paid to that !'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz wrong chat window - dammit fundie Xtians are a hard bunch  !'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Damn, I keep missing Tzadkiel I wanted to hear more thoughts out of that one today.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'plural? really?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Yeah. I find it enjoyable.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'll give you the abridgement: Government is evil, but nothing can be done about it. Global warming must be fake because it's inconvenient. '
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no more like, humanity is a disease'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Lol. It's not so much the arguments that I like, but the way he/she types them out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'government is evil, thats the abridged chemosh'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nah, Chemosh is more: I am insane'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'True.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'just way way too paranoid'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did anyone else observe Empty Chair Day?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We need a tax on stupid. Where should the cutoff be?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how would you implement it'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'We should just stop with you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and doesn't one already exist, called "The Lottery"'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'taxes are not optional.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I saw some BLS statistics a couple of years ago, saying the poorest 10% spend about 10% of disposable income on lotteries or similar'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, i spend 20% of my income on tax that goes directly to national healthcare that I either don't receive, or isn't effective'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably not close to accurate if that was the only bit of info you got from it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you'd be receiving it if you were sick though'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'One could argue that the current economic/market system already functions as an intelligence-based tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US system, maybe'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our tax is collected before you get your hands on it'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'life pretty much functions that wasy'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'way'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'even before you consider the increasing correlation between iq and income'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'd just like my country's tax system overhauled and hugely simplified'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our tax code is over 1000 pages long'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no wonder it's so heavy and why rich people can avoid it so easily'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada comforts Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We're still under 300 pages'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would like to see them ditch local property taxes and replace them with a locally-set income tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so who's going to cheer on obama in Carolina?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or should that be "cheer good riddance"'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'I'm going to cheer ilee'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Apple have been granted a patent to disable phone cameras according to locations (to make it possible for government to shut down recording and comms during protests and political events)'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'If only Elise would have killed Jobs sooner.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the answer is: carry a seperate camera around with you not wireless and not made by Apple'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'No the answer is never buy from a totalitarian dictatorship in the first place. Unless it says made in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tricky, everything is made in China'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Armer: 'yeah but they don't make their stuff totalitarian unless we ask. Then they take some money off because hey, we're only helping them at that point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like UK is trying to pick a fight with Russia now, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'usually that's not a good idea I thought'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i don't think it is a good idea. It's the kind of idea that makes me want to not be living here'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't fancy glowing in the darjk'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'look, if you're going to be glowing in the dark, we all are'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah-ah, not me'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'going to be picking through the ruins in your power armor?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i'll do the French thing of advancing towards the enemy by running in the opposite direction'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'hard to run from global thermonuclear annihilation'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unlikely to be global'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so one person is going to get away with nuking someone else then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely tacs'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russia could probably just blockade us'
T3/r7/2012-09-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since we have resources to feed at best 20 mil, we'd soon capitulate'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '"Veganism is a bourgeois eating disorder"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'is it cause they refuse to eat flesh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i wonder how vegans deal with oral sex..'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Same as non-vegans, I would imagine'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'its still eating flesh'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Howdy howdy'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Right now, deep heat genesis has the most links from chemicals to life (or it did the last time I ran my way through Google Scholar on the topic) - nothing has yet disproven the primordial soup theory, the extraterrestrial seed theory (via nature (meteorite from a life-containing world) or sentient intent(aliens))'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'thanks Vaki :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Thank Rumour :-P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ooh, isn't it colourful on here'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'sentient intent? whoa, never heard of that one..'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ever watched Ancient Aliens? Guy has some pretty whack hair :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zaccarion nods.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Well I guess my comment got swallowed by the switch to the debate channel. Maybe gregor will respond.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'responde to what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Can always repost, nobodies gonna bite you'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'btw, sentient aliens is basically an intelligent design theory.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I apparently don't type/read fast enough to in this conversation. But I have a problem with what Gregor is suggesting... essentially since we can be sure of nothing that sicence says we should toss it out altogether and abandon that quest. That seems like a very silly thing to do, at least to me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yes, it is - but NOT a supernatural one'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'by human perspective, sentient aliens are supernatural'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And leaves the concept open to the origins of said first life'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Um. Wat?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No they aren't, what a dumb statement'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: '"sentient aliens" is not a theory, it's a hypothesis'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Zaccarion, like I said on gossip. I am very into science - science has achieved some great things for the human race. What I don't like is when people try and pass off as fact things that don't conform to the scientific method.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Zac, I think that's not what he means... I think what he means is that science is no better or more "true" than religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'In effect I'm defending true science from the lagoon of wild and baseless theories'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'So it's not scientific progress/experimentation you ahve a problem with, it's the logical system beneath it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'The premise of the scientific method is that hypotheses should be testable and therefore falsifiable.  If you can't test an idea, how is it useful in explaining anything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So what is your actual point? Are you a creationist, anti evolution, what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'it's claiming things are science when they aren't. Personally I love science.....real science that is.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I'm a scientist, that believes in the scientific method.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Wild and baseless hypotheses, Gregor. Theories by definition are based on observation, they are not baseless.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'And what seperates real science from the scientists that hypothosize the origins of life?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'evolution is one such example of a theory that does not conform to the scientific method, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'How does it not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that's very silly'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Evolution is supported by evidence; life changes through time.  It has been observed over the short term and the long term via the fossil record.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, essentially, without evolution you wipe out most of modern biology'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Observe-Hypothesise-Predict-Experiment'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'listen, I'm not arguing creation here, I'm just highlighting scientific theories that don't stand up to the true scientific method.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and I believe that modern biology is a science'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '"true scientific method" -- this it the non-true Scotsman logical fallacy'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'gregor when you say you are a scientist....have you actually studied science'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'You're not arguing theories though... you're arguing the logical stance of the Scientific Method that Francis Bacon gave us 400 years ago - that a hypothesis is valid until it is proven otherwise.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Can you explain to us how the theory of evolution doesn't conform to the scientific method?  Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by "the true scientific method" ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yes I have studied physics to reasonably high level. But I take special interest in biology involving the origins of life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'And you, Gregor, are taking the stance that the burden of truth relies on the speaker.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'To what level have you studied physics?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'interest?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'which is specifically NOT the scientific method.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Some scientists (i.e. Darwin) observed the natural changes in life from prehistory to now.  They hypothesised that incremental changes were more likely than major ones, and that such changes would build species into new species.  They predicted a MULTITUDE of things in relation to this, such as the ever popular 'missing links', the concept of FUCKING DNA before anybody knew!, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I have also looked in depth at the fossil record'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"proofs" in Science are based on the initial prerequisite: "God was not involved" -- then plausible conjectures are analysed, and some of those become (plausible) theories, which when corroborated by physical evidence become "plausibly proven"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(even so, "proven" theories of Science is amenable to update change and revision -- Science may even plausibly "prove" seemingly contradicting theories  (the seeming duality of light))'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'What parts of the fossil record have you examined?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: ' HE'S NOT ARGUING THEOLOGY/CREATIONISM/EVOLUTION!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Do you even know what a brachiopod is?  Heh.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'I have an "interest" in lots of things...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Finally, they experimented via archaeology, biology, etc - and the end result is that the scientific community has almost universally accepted evolution - via the scientific method - as the most likely theory for the history of life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'alright this has stopped being a debate and started becoming a roast of gregor... move it back to gossip.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I can't really talk to this many people at once.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'has Vaki n Star disagreed on something yet ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Gregor, can you tell a brachiopod from a bivalve?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my original hypothasis stands - is all about connection ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'To that, I say fucking QED and go back to the very odd lab you seem to work at, because if you said espoused the things you are saying here in an academic environment, by FSM you'd better have tenure, or work in Texas perhaps'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Only about the date of the wedding.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'WOAH, Keep Texas outta this.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Texas who is putting Creationism in their biology textbooks?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Vakieh, I stand by what observation indicates. I have no problem in standing out from the crowd and say what I really see, rather than conforming to whatever is popular.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Not I.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So tell me, what do you see that so many haven't, and when do you collect your Nobel?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'If your argument is that I'm wrong because I'm not in the majority, I find that a pretty weak statement.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Vakieh, it's obviously an accumulation of large amounts of evidence. Clearly I'm not gonna deliver a one-liner that is going to change your mind.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I'm just not sure what aspect of evolutionary theory you think is not scientific not why you think this'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'we could talk about "transitional fossils" or "missing-links" for hours.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'and that is just one topic'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Gregor, you ignored all my questions, you seem unable to elaborate on what the "true" scientific method is.  If you can't even do that, how can you convincingly argue against a process that has been repeatedly validated by thousands of scientists across hundreds if not thousands of disciplines?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zaccarion stares at the bulge in Vakieh's pants. It must have come from evolutionist fervor.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Answer:  He can't, because at this point he's just trolling us.  Can you show me any evidence to falsify that hypothesis? ;)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'the basic premise behind the scientific method is this - "Observe what happens: based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true: test the theory by further observations and by experiments: and watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled."'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I will cheer for joy the instant an anti-evolutionist produces a peer reviewed paper that I can follow to relevant sources, engage in wholesome debate with, who doesn't scream religious persecution when questioned, and actually brings points to the table that haven't been concusively disproven by the most basic of inquiries.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Vakieh, there are many such papers. I'm suprised you are so ill-informed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that is a very limited idea Gregor -- you cannot do experiments on historical events'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zaccarion is tickeld ping by a raging pool of amino acids, ionic charges, and super-heated seas.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Vakieh, I am your one true god.  Bow down before me and give me all your gold and tps, or else I will shove your mom down your throat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'There is a stereotype that all scientists blindly accept the theory of evolution. Nothing is further from the truth. Many scientists harbour serious doubts about the validity of evolutionary theory, Myself included.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Can you elaborate on what doubts you harbor?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'It's true that acknowledging such doesn't bode well for your career however......because those in the minority must be wrong, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'If you like we can start with how the explosion of life in the cambrian era fits in with gradual development between species.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Instead, the shit I find when I look or ask is all a bunch of fundie nutjobs who completely ignore evidence in favour of their theories, and cover their ears and sing hymns when you try to pin them down on exactly where their publishings directly contradict either themselves, or other papers, and ask them to justify it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Gregor played the McCarthy ruse: "there are many such papers. I'm suprised you are so ill-informed" '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'One minute we have barely any life forms in the fossils record, and suddently in the Cambrian Era the Cambrian Explosion takes place and we are presented with full sized animals appearing in the record'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'starling I have observed you, I hyphothise you are real...you are my GOD'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'many of the so called transitional fossils shown in scientific journals have often been blown out of proportion and do not represent the true size of the fossil in conjuction with other transitional fossils'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Which just happens to concide with drastically increased levels of oxygen in certain mineral deposits, etc?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'who knows, but it certainly doesn't concide with the theory of evolution. These things are supposed to evolve gradually, not appear simultaneously in the fossil record.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Define "gradually"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'When your fossil samples are so completely sporadic, you really can't call it simultaneous...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Starling, that is difficult to define. Because there are many evolutionary theories which treat the word "graudally" in a different light.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zaccarion gradually strokes Starling's hair... oh sweet thing....
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'for example, the evolutionary theory of punctuated equilibrium'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'On a scale similar to the end of the Cretacious to the current time, we saw a similar rise - not against evolution at all...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'their definition of gradually is one I'm completely unfamiliary with. I think the best translation of their version of "gradually" is instantaneously.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Cretaceous*'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'BEEN WATCHING THIS AND THE ONLY COMMENT IS PERHAPS AN IMM WOULD MEDIATER AND WE COULD ACTUALLY DEBATE "AN" ISSUE RATHER THAN  THIS .. PLEASE ALL REVIEW THIS DEB LOG AND SERIOUSLY - ADULTS -- WHAT ARE YOU AFTER ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zaccarion jumps on GraySong Gregor's shoulders adding to the weight of his burden of proof... oh wait he doesn't seem to have anything but air in his burden...
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'If you assumed that you had a consistent representative sample being fossilized at consistent and regular intervals...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Hey look, I'm not trying to prove anything. Was just pointing out that scientists don't know for certain how life originated.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I wasn't aware that needed proving. Apparently it does.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'not only that if you can't answer the question of the chicken and the egg try studying genetics, as opposed to evolution'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'there is always a chicken and egg, either way'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'it's probably the easiest science to explain'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Again with this 'certainty' - any good scientist is aware that the only thing anyone can ever know for 'certain' is that he will never know anything else for 'certain''
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'BRING  dRU BACK !'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'No, and most of the ones I know will say 'Gosh, we aren't sure, but this is the most consistent theory we have at the moment.' and more of them would probably say it if YEC's didn't jump on it saying 'SEE! SEE! THEY have DOUBTS! WE are the only ones without doubts!''
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Agreed there ;) But some things we can know a lot more certainly than others ;)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'no...there is a pre-cursor to the chicken...i'll call in the swassadfasdffjas...it mutates..then there is the egg which becomes the chicken'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'anyhow, I'm going to get back to work now. Any complaints, you know how to use personal board.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'How about we just call it the Raptor, like actually happened :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'acheopterix :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the evolution of the different varieties of dog is recent -- no fossil record likely exists for this variation'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'major changes in evolution variety may or may not leave fossil records'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'call it what you want....you will never find all the neccessary fossils to show all the steps from 1 species to the 5th species, that's why evolutionary biologists study biology and anatomy'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Zade = Nazi  .. deb over ... :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'sorry zade, missed your comment,,,,agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and quite honestly, every time a transitional fossil is found, there will be two more 'missing' transitional fossils.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That is because from one species to the next, assuming 100 generations between (an insanely low estimate) you require 100 fossils, if not 200, to show 'all' the steps'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Vaki / Star lov in over 15 min ago :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tzadkiel = rabid zionist .. debate not over .. :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'furthermore, once a species is well-adapted to its location it will tend to remain the same, unless the location changes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'rabid Zionist ! lol unpack that ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zaccarion giggles at Zionism. Then cries over what it has done to the world.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tzadkiel, you played the Nazi card, and an opposite of "Nazi" is "rabid Zionist"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'rabid I'll cop to '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'so you'll see rapid change during periods of stress, then nothing-nothing-nothing-nothing once it's adapted and the niches are filled. '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'When did you play the Nazi card?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The really cool thing about evolution is that the rapid change is happening in very localised amounts all the time, but it only begins to spread through the species rapidly when stress on the 'average' member grants the crazy mutants some advantage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'like a fucking big meteor hitting the earth :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'species stress points produce extremely  Darwinist ? results ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'W00T little rodent great great great great great great great great great great great great grandpa :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'no this awesome...I played aardwolf 13? years ago when I was studying honours in microbiology, don't kill the debate I'm loving reading it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'empty ecological niches ftw :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'jeez Vaki I hope that was a trigger :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A lot of people get confused when you tell them dinosaurs really ruled the earth for a good 4 million years after the meteor..google that one if you will and be amazed :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I don't know about 'ruled' ... maybe ruled after the manner of the late roman empire :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Dinosaurs "ruled" ?!? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ruled like people rule - top of the food chain baby'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'top of the food chain is Death'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'sharks...sharks'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tzad rules !'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but death talks in small caps.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'capatilism rules imo .. rl '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: '...and we just took a right turn.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I want to like capitalism, because I see the strength behind it and the logical conclusions that lead to such a policy/doctrine, but it does leave a lot to be desired, especially when it comes to human rights, equality of wealth, and environmental issues.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But I don't see a whole lot of deductive proof for any of those three things, that makes me 100% say "HEY we need those!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'triple bottom line accounting ? view/ flaws? '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'unpack?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Quite honestly I think zealous attachment to any system of economics is likely to cause more harm than good.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pure capitalism works wonders - unfortunately, those who win once gain an advantage towards winning again, and thus the accretion begins (read: lobbyists fuck it all up)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'even the version we vote for ? "capatalism is $1 a vote imo ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But the question becomes Vakieh, is the system really fucked up at that point, or is it functioning exactly as it should?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"socialistic regulated free enterprise using capitalism " is superior to raw unregulated "capitalism"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Um, I'm going to go with the fucked up option there'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think politicians should wear badges like NASCAR drivers so we can identify their corporate sponsors.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Zade, you're going to have to be more specific. Some of those terms are expressly contradictory.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But Vakieh, what makes it fucked up? I mean, capitalism is/was designed to let the market do what it will naturally... if it does that, then how could the conclusion of many years of bartering and selling and trading and brokering end up in a mistake?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'special interest groups fund parties - advertisment works and costs money - idiots vote .. flawed system imo .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That was never the goal of Capitalism'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'use of "cuss words" == disregard - the cretin is also unsure, and is resorting to cuss words to cover ignorance'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Tzad, no doubt.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'My point is Capitalism HAS NO GOAL.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Capitalism is more "designed" to benefit from human selfishness and optimism'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'it is a system, not a purpose or destination.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The goal of Capitalism, as espoused by a number of it's early champions: To produce as much as possible, as cheaply as possible, paying the highest wages possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Tinada.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'humans ARE selfish!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada points at Dispel Majic and yells 'EEEEEEEEEK!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Who said that? I've seen that quote...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The 'cheapness' referred to in the second point refers to NLK costs, not wages specifically'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And Ford said the famous version of that'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Oh and here, I submit this to you all from my archive of useful articles....    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/opinion/henry-ford-when-capitalists-cared.html?src=rechp'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Though it was said in many ways all the way back to Adam Smith and beyond'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Oh it's probably in that article then.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Ford was a National Socialist using Capitalism'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'thank god I live in Australia and this crap doesn't apply .... oh wait '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Walt Disney was a National Socialist using Capitalism  :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I live in Burundi where I wish we had an economy to even have the argument about capitalism/socialism'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'So you're not so bad off Flaxon :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'no....no I am not, I stand corrected '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pay politicians 1 million dollars a year, but take 100% of their assets upon entry to parliament, or Congress, or whatever it is where you live. They and their dependent families are not allowed to receive any income or assets given to them by others, from the moment they swear in to the moment they die.  Upon leaving their job, if they have left in good standing they retain their 1 million per year in perpetuity until death.  If they have left in bad standing (corruption, law breaking, etc) they recieve the lowest payable amount of social welfare the country provides an unemployed person.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Would never happen, but fuck me I'd like to see how much it would fix (though it isn't foolproof)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Vakieh, it takes politicians to implement your proposal :-D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Do you really want a system which discourages the most (economically) successful citizens from being politicians?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because economic success in a captialist environment such as we have requires fucking the little guy repeatedly with a rusty knife.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not to mention nobody needs more than 1 million dollars a year, period.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'my father was a lawyer, he made a decent amount of money and was able to pay for my university: my partners dad self made, helped buy our first house.. Why should politicians not be able to help family?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Wouldn't it be better to reform the election system and campaign finance?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'just because they are politicians?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are horrid flaws to that suggested Draconian policy of [04 Sep 09:19:40] (Debate) by Vakieh '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The $1million can be given to whoever they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The dependents are disallowed from earning money/assets while they are dependent on the pollie - instant they are independent all bets are off for them, however'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are many roads to Hell'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would love to have contributed to tonights discussions but sadly unable  - dream well all and I'll see you all later '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'TZ out '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'night tzadkiel'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Say.. (1) Only voters are allowed to give money to politicians/parties/pacs/etc, (2) Maximum total donations to all political purposes for one year = 10 hours of minimum wage, (3) Change to proportional elections to get away from two-party system'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'This is the only way I see where the inherent corruption in the system doesn't creep its way back in - that said, it would take either an benign alien invasion or someone developing unassailable super powers to actually think this could ever happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd really like to change to proportional representation, yeah.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'We have proportional representation here (as our upper house) - it really never changes much'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if all voted perhaps'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there are a lot of states where you have like 30-40% blue or 30-40% red but because of political boundaries they never get a voice'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'furthermore it'd increase the likelihood of anyone actually voting for a third party candidate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unfortunately, there are corrupt implementations of proportional representation'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The real issue with it all is that the biggest voter heart-string tuggers, the wedge issues, are usually bipolar in nature - no room for a third option in Joe Blow Voter's limited mind'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'There are corrupt implementations of everything.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Majic -- straw man argument ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Zade.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'I was going to say something, but this debate is about American politics and I realise it is different to Australian '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think you ought to check the definition of 'straw man argument''
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Gay marriage or no gay marriage, guns or no guns, war or peace - to get an emotive response you have to go to extremes'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are advanced variations of the straw man argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Vakieh.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'our last national election resulted in a stalemate between 2 parties with independents deciding the result'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Flaxon, that is because the extreme people were voting on was "we hate ALL the parties"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Xyliz, a straw man argument is when you construct an argument that you claim that your opponent made, in order to counter it. If you're claiming I did that, please provide specifics, as from what I see you said that proportional representation can be implemented in a corrupt manner, and I replied that anything else could as well. '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'I have been following (slightly) the american elections and seriously it the most confusing %^%& I have ever seen.....I mean how long does it take?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Heh, that's because everyone's voting is based on 'we hate that guy' not 'we actually want that guy''
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'actually I, myself, voted greens in last federal election'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'so maybe you are right vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I voted liberals - but I live in a 99% liberal vote seat, so I could have voted for HEMP for all the good it would do'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods. I'm currently living in illinois. Illinois is gonna vote obama, no matter what :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'I was in ruddies originally then moved to anti- gay marriage electorate and didn't like either 2 party '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Majic, the "There are corrupt implementations of everything" was the "example-irrelevant" straw man constructed in an attempt to demolish the seriously stated "unfortunately, there are corrupt implementations of proportional representation" '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at Zade.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flaxon: 'whhhhaaaaa...tttt?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'In the first place, that's not a straw man. A straw man is specifically based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position, which I don't believe I did. If I misrepresented your position, do elucidate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Secondly, I'm not claiming that proportional representation is free from corruption. I do, however, believe that it would be more representative than what we currently have, which is the two-party system having a stranglehold on politics.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I must run now, but I'm sure that everyone else is eagerly awaiting your next rejoinder in ten minutes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that was definitely a 'straw man" - maybe not the "straw man" you are used to seeing, but nevertheless a "straw man" '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not me :-) I only hear of Zade like I hear of the wind - when people react to his passage'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic sniggers at Vakieh's actions.  Maybe you should REPORT the idjit.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Well, sure, Xyliz, I guess that when you come up with your own definitions of things, you can claim anyone's using them :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade likely strongly criticised something that Vakieh believes and was unable to counter in a debate, so the "ostrich defence"
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Come let us reason together sayeth the Zade; even though you are totally wrong, perhaps you may yet learn something, and not be so wrong" -- xchan'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there you have it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hacker group Antisec has leaked what it says is evidence that the FVI is actively monitoring the communications of every American using an iPhone'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'how much can they be monitoring *everybody*?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'That wasn't the claim.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'whats fvi?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'The claim was they captured 12million'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dbi, sorry'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck, fbi'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'silly foreign acronyms'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the FBI monitors everyone.  Sometimes they even look back through the logs, but most of the time they don't.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also, Apple are building facilities in their phone software to allow government to remotely disable recording on iphone devices'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we have the great panty-wearer J. Edgar Hoover to thank for that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seems there is specific collusion between designers and intelligence services'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because they do it doesn't make it either legal or right'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so?  America also violates the Geneva Convention on a daily basis and has done so ever since it was written.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, does that make it OK?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell me again, you fucked up in the head are you? :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I guess sometimes that stupid Geneva Convention just gets in the way of things that need to be done'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'remember, nobody really cares what happens to the doofuses who actually manage to succeed at something terrible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and, no, I'm not fucked up in the head.  I'm a democrat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'The FBI is accused of having names, phone numbers, and device IDs.  Lulzsec didn't find any evidence that they're "monitoring the communication" of Americans, as you claim.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why would they go to the effort of collecting information and specifically NOT use it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, not on this particularly, though they do regularly monitor people'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though that's the NSA, not the FBI'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'yes, the FBI regularly monitors people... that's part of their job'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so yes, it does beg the question - why did they have this information?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they all do it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'they didn't find any evidence of mass monitoring all americans communications'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mass theft of americans private information'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'I'm not saying that they should have it.  I'm just saying that your claim had no basis beyond your own paranoia.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'and "begging the question"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm saying what the hacker group said'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but really, that's about the only use such info could be used for'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'one of the things the government does really well now is share information amongst itself.  Because the FBI is more of a "face" organization, they probably got tasked with the warehousing (ie, intelligence yellow pages) and anything worthwhile from those sources is stored in places much harder to access.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'you said the FBI "is actively monitoring the communications of every American using an iPhone", which you have no evidence for.  The fact that others are making the same claim doesn't help your argument.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'seriously, when was the last time you heard of the NSA or the DIA thoroughly screwing something up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell the news people, Iz'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I was just relaying it to you'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'oh like news companies dont have their own agendas'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'privacy is an illusion, and it's just becoming worse and worse'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'i can quote wikipedia, doesnt mean they are right...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you were providing new ammunition for Chemosh.  You're in cahoots with the bots!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not surprising with the kind of comments i'm seeing here tonight, Nissim'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'be sure to flip off the hidden cameras as you jack off in the shower then'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'the fact that the news organizations spews crap doesn't absolve your responsibility to not regurgitate it =p'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no such responsibility, Iz'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither do you have a responsibility to defend them'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'a credible news story will cite credible sources for their news'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'if jacking off in the shower is what you're worried with, you're fine, Cambodia'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'true I guess, but it would make you a better person'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like hell it would'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really, Nissim.  The military's got satellites that can see clearly through walls.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean what is the government going to do with your private information'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'control you'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'how'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'makes the whole TSA porn videos seem like crayon drawings.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Hans, still, they won't be looking for masturbators'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Cambodia, by feeding what you want to hear in order to get things their way'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'what do you have that should be private that they can control you with?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'they are looking for specific things....not who is sleeping with who or how you jack off to justin beiber...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are looking for dissenters, probably'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'well, I guess if you think the system is ok as it is, and everything's fine, then cool'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'but start disagreeing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'remember when people started to use cordless phones....man the conversations i picked up on the baby monitor...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that won't be their official purpose, no.  Doesn't mean they won't sweep over your house when you're doing it, because they had a piece of intelligence just credible enough to investigate.  And then there's the goof-offs--the folk who manage to get satellite time and spend it watching nude sunbathers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no I mean, this shit isn't anywhere close to V yet, or 1984'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're at 1983 lite'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'forget about V or 1984, think about Brave New World'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'they're controlling us with what we like, not what we hate'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'even Brave New World had a way out for anyone who wanted it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic . o O ( love's as good as soma )
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'really? and what was it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're way past 1984.  The only real limiting factor is that somehow we still have decent people in shadow positions of power.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, here's the link: http://pastebin.com/nfVT7b0Z'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well there was the reservation, and also if you remember at the end, the guy who ran it sent our hero to a colony of artists and people who wanted to think for themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'but what i like might not be what someone else likes...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yep. iceland, wasn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'give these cowboy good-guys a good reason to look at you, specifically, there's nothing to stop them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Eureka, that's why they need personal info'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the only way you can get out of a prison made of what you like is to be disciplined about what you like'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'and what is me playing with a ball of yarn going to tell them :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or have the discernment to live for more than your pleasures'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'as long as you don't dissent... nothing'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'anyway, there are other countries that you can live in also'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think there a free countries out there not under NWO dominion?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'most other countries bow down to the USA, or want to be like them, unfortunately'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to coin an old old phrase: Name that tune'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'new world order'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they already can farm personal information.  If it's on the internet the government has no difficulties accessing it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Hans, right on... and the funniest thing is that we're giving it all to them, for free.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'we file taxes, birth records, death records....we willingly give info. its not like they have to go far to get it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we're even making their collection efforts all the easier with smart devices that broadcast our info.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'one word comes to my mind with all this discussion: cattle'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'since the beginning of time'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia thanks Archimedes Eureka heartily.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'thank you, that is what i was going to say'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I agree, but the problem is just WAY bigger now with Facebook and everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'so dont use it '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no it isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'one thing is for the gov. to have basic info about you'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the problem is the same size now as it always was'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i pay for everything with cash these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the other is for them to have info about your every fucking step'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if nothing else, prevents banks learning about my buying habits'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'also, Eureka, I don't, but I'm just a guy'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so they can...what'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they have that, too.  How often do you think the average american goes without their cellphone (mandated GPS) or is in a spot where some camara doesn't pick them up?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'how is the bank going to control you specifically with your buying habits?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banks don't control me, but they sell that information on,a nd government will access that info too'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'seriously, the very fact that you guys are asking "so what if the gov. knows everything about me" is exactly the problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and then they will do what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they have even deployed smartsensors that can tell you're about to commit a crime based purely on facial-feature detection.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'they cant sell that info if you tell them not to'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'pfft.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no I mean what exactly are they going to do to you, you personally, to control you, you personally?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you who is paying attention to all of this, what are they going to do to you with your information?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's difficult to say, Cambodia'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'amazing how much quicker crimes get solved though with all these cameras isnt'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but as a rule such information is used to profile people'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'whatever they want.  Piss off the wrong egotistical maniac button-jockey, and you might find yourself without a bank account.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh oh but it's going to be TERRIBLE!!!!!!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'crimes. oh, my. there we go.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Cambodia, for ex.: they'll flag you as a terrorist based on stupid criteria'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ok there'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'at least there's one concrete fear'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can prevent you getting work'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'laws are relative.. they can bend them and make you look like... whatever they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can prevent you leaving or entering the country'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and credit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'how do they prevent someone from hiring you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'ok, why are they going to do this to you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'make a phone call i would guess'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it is a job that requires a CRB or similar security check, Eureka'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'some companies don't hire you if you have a record or some other bad bit of information on your background permanent file.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'drugs, for ex., are one important side of this discussion'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Huan: 'don't forget good old blackmail - threaten to release embarassing stuff about your habits'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Huan, right on... blackmail'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'but there are other places that will. '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's what I said, flip off the camera as you jerk off in the shower'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, blackmail, also you can end up being pulled up/over for anything/everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'and if you are dumb enough to do something to get you on there...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'everyone has a weak point... make the gov. your enemy, and they'll find yours (rather easily)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'the govt doesnt have time....'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, we were all led to believe that we were entitled to a certain level of privacy'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well they've been able to go after you if you make yourself an enemy of them for a really long time now'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that people are being duped and lied to makes me angry'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'in fact, tbh, big companies are quickly becoming a threat just as big as the gov.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government == big corporations'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'of course they are. who do you think pays the politicans'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'yeah its all jus tabout the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's a nice delusion to have.  It makes all the sheeple who worry about stuff like that worry less.  Less worry means the sheeple either don't pay attention or care less about what's happening around them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so wait, do you want to have the ability to take down the government?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'yeah just you know... be quiet and go on about your business'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i'm somewhat sick of having all my earnings wittled away by tax, having my aspiration wrecked by some greedy control-freak cunt'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'definitely would'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then we could be like Central America'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all I ever wanted was for them to piss off and leave me alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm pretty sure nearly everyone else who is critical of the government feels the same way'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Huan is agreeing with that Tigernuts person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'unfortunately, you don't get to be left alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well, you can, but you have to go a really long ways to be left alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'funny thing, that.  I'm sure the terrorists felt the same way, too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's something worth fighting for, Cambodia'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the fact that the system is pretty f***ing unfair to most people is one thing to be pissed about'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can say fucking on this channel.  No need to self-censor.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'oh ok :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'destroy a man's aspirations, then he'll either give up or he'll aspire to have aspirations'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'everything is connected.. Eureka talked about crimes, if we had a better distribution of wealth, we'd have less crimes, for ex.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's one for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I really, really doubt that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'crime happened with or without wealth'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'but no, we want 1% of ppl to hold 99% of the money'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are cussing, you don't believe what you are saying, and or you are wrong in your cussed opinions'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we had fewer laws, there'd be less crime'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh, what evidence do you have for that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Archimedes Eureka peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'no evidence, I'm just saying (you can disagree if you want)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'it just seems logical to me that you don't have to steal if you have enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why buy, though, when you can get for free?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poverty is a big driver of crime, yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'there are other reasons to steal'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'really? like, being born evil?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'lack of money deters breeding'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the UK it doesn't, Zade'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'babies are a cash crop'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'for fun, to see how far you can go without being caught'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'crimes of passion.  The need to keep certain bits of information secret.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'oh no it doesnt... believe me, its the other way around'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with more money, there be an even bigger crop'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: '(about breeding)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it seems logical, but there's always wanting more.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the wanting more is part of the same system that gives 99% to 1%'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and you think that by 'fixing' that you'll fix the inherent problem of greed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and with more breeding, there is less money to go around'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I wish we lived in as rosy a world as you do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'look, i'm not talking about communism ok? im talking about being fair, you know, just enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and with more breeding, the ecology is likely to collapse sooner'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'anyone can commit a crime, but it's well documented that poorer people commit crimes more often http://inequality.princeton.edu/papers/western-crime.pdf'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what Nissim is talking about is preventing exploitation, monopolism and corruption'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'heh, look at all the rich people who get in trouble for embezzling from corporations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like how the NSA-backed Google corporation can get away with paying under 2.5% of profits in corporation tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet joe blogs and his small business employing 4 pays 15%+'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and with more breeding, there is the requirement for more breeding-room -- Heil!  (and wars result, which reduces population)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at how pensioners can be kicked out of their houses by banks who claim they've defaulted when they paid off their mortgage 10 years ago, and yet investment banks can be given $100bns of tax payers money because "they made a bad bet"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none of these are to do with wealth redistribution'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'no?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the normal sense'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'look, all I'm saying is: it's easy to think everything's fine when you're on the good side'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'but some people work their asses off and don't get shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, Nissim, that's the same as saying (going back to the snooping thing) "if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I can't say I wouldn't commit a crime if I was in that situation'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wealth-redistribution fails when some ethnic groups and religions deliberately overbreed'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'well... I can't disagree with that, unfortunately'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which religious and ethnic groups are overbreeding in the UK?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'birth control is very important'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I'd say, for the future of mankind (without getting into the matter of who breeds more)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I shiver to say it, but I agree with the NWO in one respect - the planet does need to reduce it's population by 75% to be sustainable'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only difference is I think it should be done through education, not through gassing people'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'that's one step, but it would still be shit if we keep giving 99% to 1%'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'The average negro is a racist bigot who thinks he's owed something and would rather not have that debt settled.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'wow.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'oh shit...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Hans, where are you from? just curious'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'California.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'right, well... I srsly wouldnt want to get in that subject ("black people are the real racists")'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is plenty to hide: "sex", "intellectual property development", "financial planning, that if known by others may be sabotaged", "private opinions"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Larry Pinkney had me in stitches when was doing his impression of a fat middle aged american baptist clapping and shrieking "I'm gonna vote me Obama cos he black!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Well, you already got into that subject, and you're utterly wrong (making a huge generalization about millions of people)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you have to admit, in 2008 Democrats played the race card, and americans, having hated George Bush, took it like suckers'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Saric, please read back... it wasn't me '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I know'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'as in oops'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'think about it, though.  How many proud black men do you see saying that everything's moreorless alright (or at least small-potatoes enough that activism in and of itself is just plain wrong) now, even though shit was really back back in, say, their father's/grandfather's day?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hopefully tst'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'maybe I read different black guys than you do, I've seen a fair few say that :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'say what, majic?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'srlsy, if you're born black, you're already born with a lot of shit on your back to start with'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what hans said'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'which makes whatever you want to do in life ten times harder than any white'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"ism" is devisive, and not in the way it used to be'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'don't come to me with "everyone's got the same chances to start wth", that's ridiculous'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'big companies are more like to produce technology and mass-produce goods -- the overpaid guzzling beer-drinker sports-fanatic internet-addicted sexperverts do not produce anything oher than more garbage'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'look, in any case, I'm sure that if the government is planning to behaviorally control the populace that they have figured your paranoia into the equation'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well no. i mean, one of our professors has talked about going to observe in an inner-city classroom in chicago and seeing an instructor teaching the students that to add fractions, you added up the numerators and the denominators.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ethnicity is far less the driver of that, Nissim, financial background is a bigger driver'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Perhaps it's because things are not "all right" that not many say that it is? Seriously, racism is everywhere. Studies have shown people with black names (and no other differences) get less jobs. Black marijuana users go to jail, on average, 3  times as frequently as whites, despite using at the same rate (proportionately). Racists still exist. The world has not "solved racism"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'when he said afterwards 'you do realize that's not how you add fractions' -- she said 'oh i know the other way too but the children find this way so much easier'\'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA hasn't, Saric'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's messed up majic'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'now if you had a teacher like her a few years in a row'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, USA is obsessed with locking people up for practically no reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'how well educated and prepared for employment would you be? :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'especially if your parents weren't any better educated and couldn't afford to send you to kumon :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Tiger, financial background and ethnicity are inherently connected for historical reasons'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'i mean, that's more of a financial background thing, but ... yes what nissim said'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i understand and appreciate that, Nissim'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's more a correlation than causation at that point'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's not caused by your actual race if that's what you mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I can't see the difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a subtle difference i grant you'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'actually being black doesn't make you dumber'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'of course not'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the way the world treats you if you are black often does'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'being black doesn't cause it, but it correlates'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'did I say that? sorry but thats not what I meant'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's the difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, i'm orf to bedfordshire, Majic can add fractions in your general direction'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'it doesnt matter, the thing is that, for historical reasons, if you're black you're born in a hard world'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'look up "stereotype threat" on wikipedia... it's very interesting on how stereotypes can often become self-fulfilling prophecies'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I can.  My old man is an old-fashioned racist, and the poor black people I am surrounded by act exactly the same way.  I even know this one guy who I could just throw human-skin-colored paint on like a bad episode of that Nickolodeon slime thing and bark out "Dad!"  Looks just like him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'not 'because' you're black, but it's all just the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no it isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'sooooo how bout that weed'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'washington's legalizing it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I'm moving back there once my lease is up'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'what you mean is that a rich black person is not treated bad?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'nice they need to'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(some of you guys are clueless as to what is actually going on, (and i'm not going to reeducate you because you are sexperverts)) (besides, you'd reject the truth) - another xchan'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well they are voting on doing it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'it'll make them a shit load of money'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'if they sell it too xD'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'maybe, we'll probably all just grow it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's already legal in Oregon, I think.  In fact, if I recall, I can openly discriminate against you there simply because you don't have a card that says you are allowed to smoke weed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'that's what I call evolution'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'for sure there are some deep wizards living in the west coast'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'LOL i cant wait to blow some with osama, oops obama xD'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pot-head drug-addicts are usually not worth hiring'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'riiight'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'i smoke it on the weekends but i can stop, not really addicted to it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pot-head drug-addicts stink reek and are annoying'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well there's a bit more honesty'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'smokefree really means it's okay to smoke weed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, potheads don't smell as bad as nicotine smokers'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's a fact, tobacco smoke permeates your shit much more than pot smoke does'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'is it true that weeds good for you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's not that bad really'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'there was a time lapse study that showed that children under 18 suffered an IQ hit from habitual pot smoking, so there should be an age limit at the least'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it gives you wings.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well there's an age limit on alcohol don't you know'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"good for you" is highly suspicious...in general, the answer is an easy "no"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pot-head drug-addicts use nicotine-tobacco as a carrier'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'oh man what did i just log into'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '21 seems reasonable'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'well i do not drink nor do i party i usually go to school, play aard, and A.V.A'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'as a recap, Nixed, we started out on privacy, got shot into racism, and are hiking back home through the weed woods.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'don't start a forest fire then :-p'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '21 always seems reasonable to anyone over 21 }:>'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'is true.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'as far as recreational substances go, weed is pretty innocuous, not to mention that the plant itself does actually have many good uses'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's not going to cure everything of course'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'debate cancer?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if children are adversly affected, then adults also are affected adversely (by marijuana)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but it can feed you, clothe you, and get you high at the very least'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it's never had anything to do with cancer'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, it's pretty awful being stuck in miles of pot knowing you can't have any because slash-n-burn is ecologically terrible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's ancillary, it helps the stuff fighting cancer not bother you as much'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'alcohol and tobacco adversely affects adults FAR, FAR worse than marijuana use though, and it's legal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'well thats what the docs saay'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's been shown to help sometimes with the side effects of treating cancer'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'doesn't cure cancer'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, the docs never say it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it helps with appetite'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'ask my doc lol they say that 24/7'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'aw, man, you saying that weed makes you fat, too?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it stops the queeziness and helps appetite from someone on chemo'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(excessive) marijuana (thc) ingestiuon changes the personality adversely and is not innocuous'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the chemo is fighting the cancer, the weed is just making the chemo tolerable'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'excessive SUGAR ingestion changes the personality adversely and is not innocuous'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'tottaly off subject, but i wanna see the new resident evil movie'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'excessive water consumption kills you, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'excessive videogame consumption is not innocuous'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can die just by breathing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'whatever, Zade hates "pot-head drug-addicts" and that's the way it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'oh yeah and if you improperly practice meditation you can fuck your shit up too'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'dihydrogen monoxide has been identified as a primary component in acid rain'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'i play games alot mainly computer, CoD is overrated bull sh*t'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if they are on "chemo" with adverse side-effects, maybe remove the "chemo" and let nature euthanise tham as nature intended'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: '.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'weed eh its okay its just to "in style"'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'what are you, a Christian Scientist?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I love how you would talk shit about anyone who says anything about God, but you'll say nature and espouse the same beliefs and now you are logical'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'seriously'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'good lord, Cambodia, he didn't say he wanted to eat a pothead!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no I just had to say something, that statement was hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'answer this..... how can a virgin have a kid?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if a Christian Scientist declined cancer treatment to put it in the hands of God, you'd call them crazy'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, US healthcare would be hella lot cheaper if we'd just let nature take over'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'call it nature, you're doing the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'she can't.  Can you spot what Mary's lie was?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '..... I prefer living over 30 years?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'Mary had a little lie'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'get rid of all the doctors & hospitals...problem solved :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'Man, this whole discussion has made me really want to smoke pot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'I think I'm going to have to bust out the vaporizer later'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't do it, man!  It's a big trap designed to put you forever under the thumb of Big Pot!'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'well i think there isnt anything to believe in besides overrated religions that hate homos and shoves the bible up every pnes ass'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'everybody*'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there's a lot more actually'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'like what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'science hates homos too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'hehehe... big pot... unfornately it's actually not funny at all :( "big pot" could mean the drug gangs in Mexico which profit immensely from shipping pot to the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'any other religious construct you like, or whatever you see of life yourself'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'yeah, which is why I only buy my pot locally! (sarcasm)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, they aren't really shipping...why send your product over the border when you can just grow it right there in their own national parks?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'because there is immense demand for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'i just live life knowing that god existence was made for protection'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's more about the relationship you have with what you don't know, honestly'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe there is a heterosexual God, since most major religions dislike homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'God swings both ways'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'well, now i know gods bisexual xDD'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'everything we've discovered in the entire universe, living or no, follows the laws of physics and science. Thus, so does God. Wouldn't this mean, then, that with sufficient knowledge/technology, it's possible to actually find God, should he exist?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the whole thing is God'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's found and you're finding it, forever'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'god... LOL why are there so many? greek, latin, hispanic, miyan, etc etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the more ancient structures liked to separate God into aspects'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'what is God, specifically?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'ever heard the story of the three blind men and the elephant?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the whole thing, Saric'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the universe is God?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Apocalyptic battle between good and evil also includes the battle between heterosexuals and sexperverts'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'this channel is just pure gold tonight.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the universe, you, your dreams, reality, the entire thing that makes a thing possible, and possible possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'every last stupid little bit of it is God'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'my final decions are that ive read so much stuff, that i really dont think there is a deity living in the sky'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'God is just a mathematical construct.  He exists simply as a means to express something via a concise symbology (ie, the irrational number i or infinity)'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'in a way I would say so'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you are a homosexual, you won't find god'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'LOL im straight xD'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'also a symbol in spiritual texts for the equivalent construct in human thought'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the synthesis of the paradox'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are you saying that god doesn't forgive all sins?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no he's just satirizing what uneducated people say the Bible says'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'it say in the bible when end times come he'll judge the living from the dead, but somewhere else in the bible it exclaims he doesnt judge.... so WTF'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it takes a lot of education to understand the bible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'truly it does'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the major religions are flawed'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's why ideally, there are people who are educated in the Bible, called priests, who help break it down for the rest of us'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'by the time you get that much education, you throw the bible out'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but like all systems of that nature, it gets twisted'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so why is Zade satirizing what the *uneducated* are saying?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'anything based on faith is flawed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'faith in and of itself is flawed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'can't have love without faith'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'faith? i believe in myself actuallu'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'actually*'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'doesn't mean it isn't flawed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well, there's no guarantee that your faith will be rewarded'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's why it's faith...'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'what's the point of the bible if God is literally everything? Wouldn't, then, the best way to worship God is to use our ability to reason logically and understand everything (i.e. God) better?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'thats also why its flawed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no guarantee your parachute will open when you jump out of the plane'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but you have faith and do it anyways, sometimes you die, but you can't really live with no faith, just because it's flawed'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if God is everything, then what's the point of privacy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because Saric, there's more to life than just that part'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there's you, who is also part of God'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'you guys are legit, def. better than the people i had this discussion with earlier'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'science is most definitely part of God, I mean, if it weren't, it wouldn't have worked'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'then there is spirituality, which is science when applied to human consciousness and perception'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's why you should fling the accusation of "troll" around with extreme care and consideration.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'GUYS we're alls gods image, even the sick ridden and people with progeria'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'I throw bot around.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which is also a science, so basically yeah, science is the way to understand God, and art is the way to worship...there's just more to science than what we call it nowadays'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'even the sexperverts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'especially the nymphos'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: '"trolls" are retarded nerds, they never get anywhere '
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and what kind of sick joke is He playing at by putting sex organs on kids?  "Look, but don't touch.  Touch, but don't taste.  Taste, but don't swallow."'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'i take debate class in school, so now when i come home and get on Aard, i'll be sure to get on this channel'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'LOL'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that quip works a whole lot better in person, too, as everyone I meet thinks I look like Al Pacino.'
T3/r7/2012-09-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'this subject is school is my favorite but technology is my personal favorite'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'whats shaking here ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Alright... time to start thinking.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'OK  shoot '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I disagree'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Kurdish people may soon have their own state, especially if Syria colapses. What do y'all think about the collective "right" of a group of people to have a land to call their own? Does such a right exist? Where does it come from? So on and so forth....  READY,  SET,  GO!!!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'G'day Greg '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'rights are defined by government'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'It's a good day is it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so, by definition, you cannot have a right to define a government, since you need one to have the right'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so it has to happen outside of this process'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Syria will not collapse either - slimy bastard has finger in alot of pies '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Unpack that Swalec'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Who's the slimy bastard?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'tell me what it is that you didn't understand'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and quickly because coffee break starts in 3 minutes'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Oh, you mean a right to define a government and a tract of land is dependent on a government already in place/'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'What about innate rights? Rights of man, rights of the collective...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'do such things allow people (groups, nations of people) to claim or lay stake to a ground and be justified in doing so?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'that is using the word "right" in a different way'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you need to be clear about your terms'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'have to say I know very little on the issue - only see the resistance of the "arab spring" in Syria  and the US needs more than Israel there r'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '"a moral right" or a legal one'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Alright, I'm talking about a moral right... one that does not require a legal/written/ratifed expression to be real and valid and justified.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'personally I don't believe that such moral rights exist - innately... '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'and It's alright Tzad, just throw shit in whenever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the world is gooverned by economics - is a said race wants autonomy they need a revinue stream .. whats the sit in Syria ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'At the same time though, I'm glad Kurdistan may actually happen, but upset about Israel.... I can't justify my love/hate for either process.... that bothers me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'That's a good quote Tzad, but I guess what I mean... I dunno what I mean.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'welfare dependant niggers here want some voice/rights - yet it only hamstrings Oz as a nation to have these ppl not producing in the economic sense .. Oz is bought by another nation - or our industries at least and we all loose - all becuase the bleeding hearted lefties want to perpetuate welfare dependancy .. some had chioces have  to be made in Oz imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'hard choices * - other Aussies wanna weigh in ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'The problem with welfare is that there's no way to distinguish the freeloaders from the needy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'education attempts ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'It's like death penalty -- on the off chance that somebody might NOT be guilty/freeloading, we should play conservative.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Social stigmas? I personally would be very ashamed to be out of work.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Cizra where you live ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm in Adelaide atm but grew up in central Australia'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we have alot of ppl there - 3rd gen welfare dependant - stil getting paid to do nothing - is even called "sitdown money" there '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'I live where it is shameful for a man not to be supporting his family.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Assuming he has one, of course. I do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'In OZ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'What is Oz? I only know the Land of Oz with the flying horses..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Australia?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Australia? No, very far away from it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'oh.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I am a diff story - was commited an d have a rich Dad who pays my bills while I get me head cleared - I am prob unemployable too but I aim to get better - many of those I spoke about have no such aspiration '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep Oz is Austraila '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Vaki wanna weigh in on the situation in Oz Re - employment ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I can't say anything about Oz, or the States as I haven't been there in a while, but here in Africa there's a TON of unemployed trying to get whatever they can from whoever they can. And it's not because there's a lack of work... it's because they are lazy, uneducated, and unmotivated to achieve better.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But that was some wanton racism there Tzad.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'I have a friend with 3 kids and a whiny wife. He works his ass off (no good education) and still barely manages to feed them. I would certainly support that kind of families.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Cizra where you from?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'I'd rather keep it private, please.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yep I'm racist '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'No doubt, I would as well. (the support not the locale, but I guess both you have a right to privacy I think) :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'wow I log in to see that message, Tza'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Hmm. Haven't seen somebody admit to racism in a while.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lets get this clear - I'm "Pro elf but I'm not anti troll" - and Tz is ok '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I assume that carries over to rl?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah I like white girls - hell yeah !'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'lol.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is preferance and is it is descrimination but it is what I find beautiful - what i s the peob ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I can't keep my fucking throughts strait long enough today to actually think of something worth bringing up to the aardwolf collective... too much caffine.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'prob *'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'live fast - die young - and leave a caffinated corpse ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'You just declared yourself for racism. But I do have an issue with what you just said - not that you said it - that the idea you brought up is so degraded by society...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Yes, Tzad. That way they don't have to embalm me..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: '...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok I'll not take anything you say to heart - lets roll - I'm racist  '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'I understand what you're saying though... I mean, that's why we as humans form groups anyway. To isolate and distinguish ourselves from the Other, or others...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'aw F that - how much BS from society programming did I go thru b4 I realised I was a lesian ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But why is it "bad" to do that along racial lines? It's an innate chracteristic that the subject can't change.. .but so what? Maybe I only like petite girls or haning out with people that have the same sense of humor as me... those are innate characteristics as well, and yet it's acceptable to group along those lines.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah thats human nature  - a part of our homeostasis wiring - but I AM racist - I am Proud of my white race !'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Eh, schizo cracka-ass cracka aint no better than anybody else, don't h8'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But do you feel the need to kill non-whites? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Yo Starling.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Hi Zacc'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'star I don't h8 - thatdeb s the prob - the vast majoritdeb y of lovers h8 the opposition - me - let em have it - I'm not interested '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'There are some people I feel the need to kill, but a) none of them are due to race, and b) I'll only kill them if I'm diagnosed with terminal cancer and given 6 months to live.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Star I have a limited time ... '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Yeah, what? 50 more years? 60?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so spree kill - how you gonna break the 38 highscore ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and shooting Tasmanians don't count anymor eeither ! :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Damn, there's one here in Burundi with me for the next week. Maybe I'll arange for her to be killed by the militia.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But if it doesn't count, it's not worth the effort.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'have to factor bulk buys into consideration with trading souls imo  ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Lol.... and that ws the last we heard of Tzad...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and several thousand other dole bludgers ... '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Dole Bludgers?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'umemployable adults that have no plan on changing that status '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Ahh. So... most of Oz.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'If you'd turn your selves rightside up and come up above the equator a bit, the rest of the world might hire some of you...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '5% unemployment - hmmm whats the US unemployment rat ? ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'Not sure, but I think around 7-9%.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But mostly it was a joke against Oz...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the unemployed actually have a factor in intereest rates and inflation .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'And Damn, I never knew juniper trees could do it for me Tzad... oh yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'wrong channel. Oops.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'But If we're dreaming... bring me a dark haired, intelligent, independent woman with a love for cargo pants and living in shit-hole countries for naive humanitarian reasons. Reasonable, no?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zaccarion: 'wrong channel again...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ashiya: 'is this game sexist, you have to give head to pete everytime you want a keg?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Obama had to move at the last minute from a 74,000 seater stadium to a 20,000 seater, and even then had to bus a bunch of people in to fill it'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not looking great for him....'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Because of rain, brainiac'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'is why they moved it out of the stadium'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rain stopped play, did it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not like it was a tropical storm'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so where's the other 54,000 going to go?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'home to watch it on their big screens they bought because they were on government cheese.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the big screens Obama gave them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, they didn't earn the money to buy them themselves, Government did that'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'not sure its Obama's fault, but ok.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They sold 65,000 tickets'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'I see this channel's as erudite as ever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'but its been that way for years, regardless of which party is in office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can be partisan, martini'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i just hate establishment politicians because they're all on the tap'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'amen'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Pretty much everyone that runs for president is an "establishment politician"'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'It's not like they were a plumber last month'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems to support the Republicans (by dissing the Democrats etc), but also seems complain about the british "republican" austerity measures afflicting the pensioners -- seems a contradiction there'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't support either side, as it goes'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but thanks for caring'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its just fun to diss the guy currently in charge.  You will always have those people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts claims to be an independent but I never see him diss the Republicans, always the Democrats. And he'll often put the blame on issues the Republcians are guilty of solely or mostly on the Democrats.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Make of that what you will.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'm nominally Libertarian, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernets seems to be a Republican republican "libertarian" republican supporter with a side of republican  (the bloody Vikings chime in with "spam spam spam spam, Wonderful Spam! .."'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like you need psychiatric help, Zade'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'The Goon Show and the Monty Python Frigging Circus are british exports -- is Tigernuts saying the the british are exporting diseases'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly syphallis and empirism'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we also seem to have exported a desire for world government'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though I'm blaming the Europeans for that'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of us never even wanted to be in the EU'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so have you anything you want to actually discuss, or are you merely waving your muscular foot, Zade?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shame, on occasions you've even been known to make sense'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i think tempering should be permanent and once off'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'too late, it's a debate now'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'once off?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'temper once, like an enchantment'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'only not redoable I am guessing'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'enchants don't fade, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'he's saying, make it permanent like an enchant'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'yeah like if you temper a weapon once it keeps the stats and can never be tempered again -once off'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'As long as the system isn't broken like enchants'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'I think all weapons should be spoons.  and we should be fed by them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'what do you mean by broken dear Starling?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'should remain the same as always.. Ore, skill, level etc... Inferno ore used on a level 1 weapon would be too exteme.. But then again the level of weapon and ore should come into play... Would be a huge game changer maybe even too much of a change'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'how much do you get from a temper now, out of curiosity?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'depends on the skill, ore and level of a blacksmith..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'inferno ore, maxxed blacksmith SH level T9'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i know some ores give +6 and some +18.. Thats damage.. Then hr/dr.. Maybe a dtype.. All depends on the character and ore.. Etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'that would be bad.. Inferno ore should only be used on a 201 or up weapon'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'it currently is.  but under your proposal, it would get used on every weapon, at all levels.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i guess it would be a fantasy... Imagine a ninja backstab at t9 after inferno ore has been used..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: '(and when I say "currently is", I mean "most likely, given the relative benefits to a pupper versus a leveler")'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'anyway, the idea is OP, so don't get your hopes up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the point is, tempers are sweet'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'so is chocolate.  but if you gorge on it all day, you'll make yourself sick.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm i know.. But then again could be controlled.. Ores at level 1 can only be used on level 1 weapons... More ores at certain levels.. Rare.. Eg. You get an ore that enchants daggers only.. Some for swords..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'now that's a bit elaborate I would think'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably just as good to make it like grouping or pk limits.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'maybe...use 5 ores to make a permanent temper of equal strength to the temporary 1 ore temper'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or something of that nature'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'but then again what about othere weapons.. Maybe an aard axe could be double handed to increase power.. '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'come up with a solution for the over-powering benefit, or consider the likelihood of seeing anything remotely like this to be slim.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what about an ore just for permanence or non-statting purposes?  Permanence could let you remove a temporary flag, for example.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'any such ore would be farmed within an inch of its life.  you'd never see one.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'all of us that are non-tier are at t2.. So maybe the tempering could be once off but... The stats would be less and damage etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'adding a 20th of the damage that sticks and a 10th of the hr or dr..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'also depending on the ore used skill level etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'sigh wishful thinking...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I think it is.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but it's a nice wish at least'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the temper is so good because it's temporary'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, american airlines wouldn't let a 16yr old with downs syndrome on the flight citing him a security risk'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're planning on suing, and good show'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'wow thats kinda bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Charlotte man listed as a terrorist over traffic violation'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'poor airline.. That family is going to have a field day!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uh heh, far worse than that'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lamya: 'I hope the 'traffic violation' was something akin to 'crashing a desil truck into the side of a courthouse''
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far funnier'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'get the local police in on it.  A ticket for "following too closely".'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was going to protest at the DNC, they arrested him for "a suspended license" despite being the PASSENGER in the car, and held him for 36 hours in jail without charge claiming he was on the terrorist watch list '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he is to be held until the end of the convention'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'poor state'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A 2009 Department of Defence anti-terrorism training program entitled "Antiterrorism and Force Protection Annual Refresher Training Course" used material that defined protesting as "low level terrorism"'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't have the sheeple being able to protest the government now'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Charlotte man's rights were violated -- the Charlotte police acted in a criminal manner'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wonder if in the presidential debates, Romney will ask Obama why DHS have bought over 1billion .40 cal hollow point bullets this year'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'answers to the "year right" competition'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'to shoot people?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, who?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, it's part of OF&F.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'thats what our government did.. They shot miners for protesting with blades and such.. Before that they shot criminals.. If you have a rhino horn you get killed.. Saw a vid with a ranger putting 3 in a guy face.. Was interesting'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but wait, the Charlotte man was a republican going to protest at a Democrat National Convention ? -- then he likely is a potentially-violent terrorist'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'di you see how violent th tea-partiers are against those of different opinions -- the Tea-Party is a terrorist organisation'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'more likely a democrat plant, trying to smear the republican good name.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure they are, zade, and did you know the tea-party are planning to work with al-quaida?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the tea party founders were directly responsible for the embassy bombings.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roflroflrofl'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'please watch this'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/dem-party-heads-ram-through-pro-israel-language-steam-roll-opposition_651765.html'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's AWESOME'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'right-wing terrorists, islamic terrorists - even if they fight each other -- both groups are terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what?  OMG, that's terrible!  I bet they even got...*gasp!*...religion!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tis refreshing to have it proven that it wasn't just the rnc that was a farce'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'politics are always a farce.  It's the politics of telling folk what they want to hear as you do what you want.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, but it was caught on tv :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'lets kill religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kill your own religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): EspadaSix Grimmjo snickers softly.
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Republicans are religious nutters -- so if you (Tigernuts) are equating religion to terrorism, then maybe you do believe that the Republicans are terrorists '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's why I always vote with the magic 8-ball.  And keep it safely locked up until the day before the election.  It's far too powerful a force to just leave lying around unprotected.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i have none'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i equated no such thing, Zade'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'democrats are more like the WBC than they realize.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'you did!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no i didn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ah, Hanslanda believes that the tea-party are terrorists  '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise teaparty working with al-quaida is something DHS have been briefing their staff and the army with?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know, the same tea party that shits a brick at anyone even vaguely arabic'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'zade you are a terrorist!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts hinted that the tea-party plans to work with al-quaida '
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tigernuts claims that the US government believes tea-party plans to work with al-quaida'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the government, they can't be wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you're a conspiracy theorist if you believe otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Alsonote'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'er, mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'the government is a terrorist organisation with their fucking tax!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't know the meaning of tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'come to the UK and see how real tax is'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Yeah, I'd hate to have to only pay sales tax on the value added instead of on the entire price.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if only'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '9-11 may've been the result of (the republicans and) the Bush family working with the Bin Laden Family -- so the tea-party may indeed be working with al-quaida'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a stretch, zade, teh bush family are outside the tea-party, they're a mafia-style family in it for themselves, and have been for 100yrs or more'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly were involved in funding Hitler'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's on record'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i was in the uk the beef isnt even fresh!'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i laught at your 8% sales tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ours is currently 20'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'only on the value added'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'that's a huge difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I laugh at your 0% tax on food and children's clothes'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's piss all difference to the end user'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some foods'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'shit! Ours is 15 it sucks'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You don't pay 20% on the entire price.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'we pay 8% on the entire price'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're an end user and it's vat'able, you pay 20% on top of the whole priec'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'great standard of living in Canada'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only the supply chain can claim back the difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'the french or canadian side?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had a good giggle at people moaning about $4/gallon gas'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks to the weakening dollar, ours dipped below $9'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Meanwhile, in regards to the dollar, your income raised dramatically.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'i wonder if zade is married in rl'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If we're relating stuff do the US $, might as  well talk about everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, leinei, all my expenses changed by an equivalent amount, so i'm no better off'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And yet you're complaining about gas'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '82% of the price of a gallon of gas is tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Which, oh yeah, you get a reduced tax on, while we get extra tax on'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty good reason to complain about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Unless you're a business, the VAT on gas is reduced'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) EspadaSix Grimmjo: 'hmm there are things you can never have enough of... Money and food..'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vat on gas is 20%, and that's on top of the price of the gas + the duty'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you're paying VAT on tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'No, VAT on gas is 5%'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'unless, like I said, you're a business'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's on home gas, not petrol'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"natural gas" if you will'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and electric'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'distances in England are not as far, so leews petrol is used'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Huan: 'just curious... Leinei, do you think that business won't push that tax on their customers? Regardless of what the % is.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? i drive 20,000 miles a year'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'pizza delivery ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, just getting to work and back, mostly'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '60 miles a day is a lot of driving'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i had noticed'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so drivers here are rightly annoyed at the tax, and the fact that less than half the tax collected through that duty actually goes to the transport budget'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'can you imagine commuting 200 miles (one-way)?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how does commuting one way work? beginning of week?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the one-wayness means you go that distance either to or from work, not both.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people do it, though such people tend to use the train'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'i wish you would commute one way to another channel  preferably one im not on'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British trains are the thing of legend'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so, a 200-mile one-way commute means you put 400 miles on your car each day you went to work.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would have to be quite a special job for that to be worth while'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or move'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they had a story about such super-commuters during the last gas crisis.  Even CEOs couldn't afford the gas for that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only reason we'd have a gas crisis now is if one was artificially created by the government or oil companies'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all crises are caused by the government.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like what Enron got away with by turning off the power in some places midsummer peak time to create a general impression of electric shortages, with a view to putting the price up'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'We get brownouts all the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That's normal'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'next one will probably be a claim of Chemical weapons in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have brownouts here on account of having sold our soul to the french and russians'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we are net importers of energy, which is a bad idea in the modern uncertain world'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'entirely capable of being energy self sufficient here, but a combination of the previous government's hatred of nuclear power, and their signing our soul up to Agenda 21 means we're not allowed to be'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e, we must import our energy and pay a premium for it because Al Gore thinks polar bears can't swim, and therefore must be paid lots of money'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'enough from me, bedtime - enjoy your freedom while you still have it'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(if you still have it)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'freedom's just another word for "nothin' left to lose"'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'counterintuitively though, it's the first thing they're grabbing'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it's a close rune thing with all these taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'be humorous when the polar ice melts and much of England is submerged underwater'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't be'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the polar ice isn't going to melt'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong there'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it will eventually, but the planet will be consumed by the sun eventually'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the ice is melting at an accelerating rate (in Iceland, and Antarctica)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'to add to yesterday's debate about privacy and the government, one piece of news today might be interesting to read: http://rt.com/news/apple-patent-transmission-block-408/'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a synopsis is faster'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'apple patented some kidn of technology that can remotely disable recording features of mobile devices'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'around an area'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'so basically they press the red button and nobody can record the police beating the hell out of protesters'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'for example :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I'd like to highlight this phrase: ""...the wireless transmission of sensitive information to a remote'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'source is one example of a threat to security."'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'so, basically, two human beings communicating is a threat to "security" (whatever the hell that means)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, it means they don't like the fact anyone can make videos of their "JFK assassinations"'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Technology's advanced to the point that anyone can broadcast information, and the media is no longer the sole source'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'they say it's for theaters and private meetings, for ex.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'but really, it can be used for whatever they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just like google search optimization is to "help" you, and not record everything you've ever done'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'another reason to boycott apple'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'thank god I'm too poor to buy anything from them'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'on one hand I have no problem with a company wanting to restrict their wireless space'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'but when it gets to the gov. hands... then it's problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Private sector is just a front for the government'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And "capitalism" ensures no non-inner circle break in'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'yeah, that too'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Funny thing is DARPA already has all this - this is marketing the covert as mainstream to get people to accept it'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'When you condition people to wait in lines, be inspected, and be under constant surveillance, they become inured of it, and expect it'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You just don't tell them you're doing it'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We have it right now'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What do you think the TSA is?'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Citizens monitoring citizens, because, of course, it's your fellow sheep that are the enemy, right'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some prefer to avoid waiting in lines'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some do not squeal on others'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You have no choice when they snap your biometrics waiting in line at a red light, waiting in line at the airport, even at a store'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'most do, unfortunately'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't view it as squealing - they're taught they're protecting the USA from terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All it is is delegating surveillance to the people themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'running after the carrot :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'is this new for you guys, being thoroughly inspected at the airport that is'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They put Umar Farouk on a plane, made a bunch of smoke, then finally installed the scanners, which had been pre-made, waiting for such an event to be fabricated'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The scanners give you cancer and sterilize you - on top of that, it set a precedent of surveillance veiled as protection'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in their defense you can always opt out of the scan'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'True, for now'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What they didn't tell you was all the defeated spin-off bills that tried to require state-to-state stops on threat of quarantine, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm really just playing devil's advocate'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the screening is pretty ridiculous, but I've been randomly selected at around 99% for the last 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'only difference now is they have widened their scope'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Funny that you said 10 years - imagine all the children that have been born expecting this'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'people who do not get the flu virus shot are dangerous to those that do...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'it's a load of ...'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that might be true, but all the people I know who get the flu shot always end up catching the flu.'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'that's what I said too. And I got before and ended up with the flu'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'felt bullied at work to get one'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'I agree people who get the flu shot are a danger to us who do not'
T3/r7/2012-09-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't mean they got the flu from the flu virus, I mean that they caught the flu sometime else that season.  Because of what's in the shot, you actually are supposed to get sick with the flu.  It's like starting up your gas mower for the first time in the spring.'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ave all :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '- I think I should be able to protect myself as best I can - training and ordinance '
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'seriously - I understand the chann definitions now R .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you ever hear about scientific consensus in a field, you should assume there is something wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flu jab is wack, btw, unless you're in an at risk group'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's just handing money to big pharma for little actual benefit'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much in the news tonight, Romney death threats from Democrate delegate, Criticism of Obama's overly personal attacks in the campaign, democrat leaders predicting lower than usual convention poll bounce'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'funky new quadraped DARPA robot clocks in at 26mph'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'overly personal attacks? I almost choked on my coffee'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, bit of a role reversal on that one'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personal attacks are typically a sign of desperation in politics, but given how "showbiz" US politics is, it's hard to tell'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm curious what they are referring to'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take your pick, it's like shooting fish in a barrel'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, both ways'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'LA start arresting people for filming in public'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'those no filming laws piss me off, mainly to protect the police in their violation of civil rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'LA cops, that is, supposed to be for suspicious filming of public buildings, but cops being cops, and cops being cops having had bad cops set precedent, are abusing it'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone should make a point of filming in public, it's not illegal'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seriously tempted to get a cheap hd camera myself and cart around with me everywhere ig o'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'did they ever resolve the case of that guy who "shot himself in the head" while being handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser?'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not, he was black so it was clearly his fault'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was sarcasm, folks'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you ehard about the 12million iPhone codes/pws/address books/personal details that got leaked?'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'nope, thank god I don't use iPhones'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well droids aren't much better, tbh'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but Apple is too cutthroat for my tastes'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most modern smartphone or computer OS's have backdoors for government agencies, and even if they don't, most hardware has them in anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can immunise yourself to an extent by only using known-clean software (chance that GNU stuff is cleaner than most because it gets looked over by the community)'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the only real way is to avoid the tech altogether'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah in this modern society not having a cell phone is bad news'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well interesting you mention that: Shunning social media is one of the "points scoring" criteria for the intelligence services looking for terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then, "protesting" is now a terrorist offence for which you can be detained indefinitely for'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and being critical of authority is a mental illness for which you can be committed to an asylum without any process (due or otherwise)'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welcome to America, aren't you glad you came :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'personal liberties are eroding'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they pull all the same shit here in the UK too, they're just a bit quieter about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also we had less rights and freedoms than you guys to start with'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so less distance to fall'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I think the mindset for this was always present, it has just taken technology to catch up'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think how Hitler or Stalin would feel with smartphones? They'd be ejaculating in their pants at the thought of all that surveillance and control'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't even mean you're typical bad guys'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '^your'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can anyone get me across magnetism real quick ? need to know why non ferrous metals are not effected by magnets '
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nixed: 'what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'what to talk about today?'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'obama?'
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we don't have a corum as yet - deb suspended until '
T3/r7/2012-09-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'n in 30 min BOB nI are busy  - until then the world can lok after itself ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Joe Biden's dad supports Obama's presidency re-election bid'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'despite being dead for 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'he was a forward thinker.'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What's up with Biden anyway - why is he pretending to be senile/semi-retarded?'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or is that just my impression'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think he's pretending'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rock on, gold's at $1737'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, that's a cool billboard: Global Warming: As fake as your girlfriend's orgasm'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'On October 13, 1999, during a press conference to announce his plans to run for president, he predicted the collapse of the world's financial system, stating, "There's nothing like it in this century.... it is systematic, and therefore, inevitable." He said the U.S. and other nations had built the "biggest financial bubble in all history," which was close to bankruptcy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like he's going to proven right'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '47 million americans on food stamps. What happens when the stamps run out?'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'philatelists will rejoice, as the flooded market can now stabilize.'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but really, what do you think that's going to look like?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Darknecro: 'whos on?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who's on second.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'whats shaking here ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a lot, just broke my little toe'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'damn ! how ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'G'day Tiggy too :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stubbed it'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sure it's broke ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'icepack reduce swelling - disinfect ifbroken     skin .lol you know the drill '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'nogs ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If a broken bone breaks the skin, get ye to a doctor...or a hospital'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or come n see me :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'G'day Vaki :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, just swollen'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if yougotohospitalthey'll just strap itto the next one overfor           supportI think '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure it'll be fine'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dammit sticky space bar '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no bleeding, nothing sticking out, broke the nail at it's a bit wonky, my shoe will hold it straight'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you got lignocane ? or some form of codine ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'swore a bit at the time :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'broken it many timse'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It takes a lot of force to break a toe. It's probably not broken.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol nearly twisted my ankle tripping today getting out the bus - yep I know the expletive drill :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regardless of whether it'sb roken or badly sprained, treatment is the same anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'true they are pretty rubbery - prob why they have so mant bones '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Obama is set to implement some kind of Cyber Security bill by presidential decree'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'decommisioning echelon ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whatever it is, chances are it'll be bad news for freedom'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and US has pulled Canada's diplomatic relations with Iran'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit rich accusing Romney of warmongering, the two faced hypocrit'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ain't Ohbummer a lefty ? freedom n all that ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he pretends he is'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wanker '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's got all his supporters fooled, he's a communist really'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'damn soz curse in deb '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'freedom n all that is rightie'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'going to have to disagree with you there'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'disagree with whom about what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Is it still illegal to be a communist in the US?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo left n right matter little in these e conomic rationalist times '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'with you that Obama is a communist'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nowt rational about selling your country into serfdom by giving all the money to bankers and megacorps'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Isn't that the point of the US?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's not communism though'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, that's not'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if they fund your evry expensive reelection campaign it might be ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really capitalism, either'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not free market capitalism, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That cannot be a surprise, the politics is obviously designed for that and hence something the public wants.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It has been established that the US is not Capitalist, but Corporatist'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'call it neocorporatism, or whatever'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'how to fix ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Vote for someone that has good ideas.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'In the US? Give up and leave, seriously.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm probably better placed to tell you how to fix the problem in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'vote for someone who is not a politician then :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where are you going to, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I don't need to leave anywhere, so long as the US stops infecting...Au doing just fine'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lets buy an island and set up a new country - show em how it's done ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for you guys, the first thing to do would be to reaffirm and reinforce the constitution, relegislate glass-stegall, and put a financial transaction tax on all imaginary financial products'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'transaction tax is a must imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'great way to end your career as a politician'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'any mention of the word Tax, and you are a communist'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could have a personal transaction tax limit of $1mil a  to ensure it doesn't hit joe bloggs'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Make it illegal for politicians to receive donations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'call it a fee , charge or levee then ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or at least make donations public.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'donations aren't public?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Supreme Court said that donations were free speech, go figure'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no bann em - someone would just set up a shelf company and donate thru that ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'spellu'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The single greatest blow to the US way of life was McCarthy.  It all stems to that mindset, and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it beyond leave or new revolution.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'spellu ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'checks for a red under the bed .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for us here, i'd reform/simplify the tax and welfare system, write a constitution, pull out of the EU, and spend a bunch of money on social housing and rail infrastructure instead of giving it to JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'As I see it, the big change for the US was WWII. Before it, the US was a young growing nation. After it, the US became a bully, world police and now a police state.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'explain what you mean to us non-Ameriacns, Vakie'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'actually the McArthy area introduced the idea (which is now full blown) that citizens should inform on each other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no conflict occured on US soil and they still geared for war - win win for the US WWII'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see something, say something'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hear a lot about that, and it's a problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cos the crooks are in the government, and nobody is watching them'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol in Oz "keep the bastards honest" .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And that started the ridicioulous idea that one US life is worth more than any amount of "other" life. E.g. pearl harbour, or iraq.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but the US has criticized other nations for implementing the same system. The Soviet System was to be feared because it induced neighbors to inform on neighbors. Now in the US the same thing is happening, but because it is happening in the US, it's OK.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is linked to spending capacity now ? human life ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's nothing if not hypocratic'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I am on my very own rant, about WWII and US military :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'asian countries are setting up their own free trade areas and using non-US currency, so it's only a matter of time before US gets desperate enough to start a war'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Wait, lives are worth something?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav sits down and thinks deeply. 
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best hope it's not with Russia ro China becasue that will end very badly for everyone on the planet'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Only US lives.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol we'll all be inundated with data mining drones in a few years - reporting becomming redundant ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Oh.  Okay.  Carry on then.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Apparently, killing 100s of thousands of japanese was fair, because of pearl harbour. Or killing 100s of thousands iraqi is fair, because they are fighting back.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when the funneral bell tolls - it tolls for us all because humanity has lost '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it tolls because idiots vote for Obama or Romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the RICCO Act grants 10% of the revenue recovered from selling the assests of an accused (notice that I didn't say of a convicted). That has made a lot of neighbors point fingers at other neighbors, easy money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or Cameron, or Miliband'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'black ops funding ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Ah.  You seem to be thinking that human lives and suffering have anything to do with the justifications for war.  '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Or the rationalizations, I should say.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sounds right to me :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'gonna trot out another jaded shrug ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'American scientists/advisors to the whitehouse had said before Hiroshima that detoniting an atomic bomb there had a 0.05% chance of putting a hole in the atmosphere that would wipe out all life on the planet'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'problem or soln ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only solution is to wrest a lot of the power back from central governments and place it back where it belongs, with the people locally'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It seems so, at least for iraq. It's so terrible when a US soldier dies, but the fact that 100s more iraqi dies is not even mentioned. They are just called terrorists or insurgents, because they fight the enemy force that is occupying their country, and that makes it ok to kill them. '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'recognise and put a stop to all the surveillance, nanny state-ism, and collectivist practices'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so the US have an alternative that the NRA - right Xtians can run with - seems to be the big right voting blocks over there ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Same thing here in Sweden when a swedish soldier dies in afganistan. Stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that's interesting, Tigernuts. Because the bomb in Nagasaki was dropped for no other reason to make sure that the first one wasn't a fluke. So they weren't to concerned with probabilites.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, stos'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'too concerned*'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, they're the same people that create gigantic economic bubble after gigantic economic bubble, the biggest is set to burst soon'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already deflating slowly now'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but very slowly'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's deflating at a rate slower than it's growing'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'it's tinned food n shotguns time for the west - lol today I don't look so insane ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'therefore not deflating lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yea, tzad, people laugh at preppers, but they'll be the ones best placed'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'different situation here, you can't prep'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oz is a nanny state too - just have to have connections - being cute helps :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that appears to be a relatively recent thing, oz didn't used to be run by pussies'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did it occur when you started letting women take charge?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Oz has it's bad sides as well. E.g. that it's illegal to enter the country if you have HIV.'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're one of the first adopters of overt carbon taxes, ffs'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst sniggers quietly to himself, reflecting over an amusing thought.
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the left is out next election - Vaki could tell you more but landslides against the left in the last 2 state n territory elections '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it goes to form, the right will be no better'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and will continue the same policies'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol yeah - point to my original statement on economic rationalism and the certralation for politics '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the left here just wanted a chunk of the mining boom - not real smart imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your mining industry largely owned by China?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm not really up on it - again Vaki would be the dude in the know but I think increasingly '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'or Scurv   - another Aussie in the know '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I know the chinesse buy ALOT of farming land in OZ '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy - on the island we buy would you have democracy ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my take on democracy is advertisment works and is expensive and idiots vote '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'fail'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dead ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'wark wark'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'umm not sure how to respond ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want democracy to work, you need to keep the size of the democracy small'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If you want democracy to work, you need to segregate people based on ideas...'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'design by commitee ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you won't need to force segregation'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will do that themselves or compromise'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Except they don't'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'People go where the money is'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they have the ability to, they will'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at the moment people don't have the opportunity to'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'homeostasis describes 90% of humanity imo ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'most humans are routine bound idiots imo - lead them by the nose - ie the wallet .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'would you want that sort of collective running a nation ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd want some sort of collective to oversea foreign policy and trade disputes between the local democracies'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i dunno, you could call the local elements "states"'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'd abolish local gov in an island gov imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on the size of the island'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if your island is the UK and has 70 million resident, clearly that's too big for a single democratic entity'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we can only by a small one - no resources beyond intellectual '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oz is only 30 mil but we are leaking resources at a rapid rate cause labour costs are too high to value add '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does that have to do with local democracy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have subdivision that would work well as semi-autonomous democracies'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'like a local council ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'province, like new south wales, etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'represent what, around 5 mil each?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we have 3 levels of governance - fedral - state or terrirory - and local council - selet one of those  ? damn the french !'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's probably a bit too many'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about federal and local council?'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'delete state ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, most power given to local council'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's how i'd do it here, constituency parliaments, single representative sent to national parliament'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'national parliament responsible for foreign policy, tax collection and a set of base policy, local responsible for everything else'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I know for sure local council is the most dysfunctional of all levels of gov  - tbh the buisiness community is streets ahead as far as functionallity '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they probably have no impetus because they have no real power'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'constituency parliament here would represent around 50,000 people'
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no accoundtability - no compeditors  '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy I  gotta bow out mate - just gonna make a cunt of myself if I continue - sleep meds kicking in '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'oh soz for swearing in deb too - gotta review lang protocols in deb next time I'm there '
T3/r7/2012-09-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Now how did I miss this - in Greece, the party with the most votes get 50 bonus reps in parliament'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'In the USA gays allready have the same rights as straights do, why is their a problem?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because your premise is false'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they can't get married'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'yes they can'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in some states, a small minority'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'apparently with not the same tax benefits and whatnot as straight couples'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'We can't let gay people get married because then:'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that leaves more women for straight guys?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Look what I'm saying is Im a straight and I dont have they right to marry another man if I want to, gays cant either except in a few states. I can do that too in those states so how do they have less rights? We have the same rights.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, you have the right to marry someone that you are sexually compatible with and they do not'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is the thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'although if that is supposed to be a joke then it's OK'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But males are sexually compatible with females'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay okay, I am joking'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia tosses a bottle of beer at Snooky ... let's just hope he'll catch it!
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Consenting adult x loves consenting adult y.  If x and y are male and female, ball's rolling.  Anything else, though...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Gays should consioder themselves lucky not to have to go through a divorce though'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That sounds really dumb...look at what you wrote, think, then come back'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's like saying homeless people should be lucky they don't have to go through bankruptcy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay I read it and Im back, so gays are like the homeless now? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's some shitty trolling'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Snooky I don't know if your purposely dense or just trolling'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Maybe they are, I mean they probably didnt choose to be homeless'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Problem is, there are people who actually believe that shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So insecure about their own marriages they have to nosey in on other people's'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Belive what? I beleive gays should have the same rights as others, I was just saying that in a way they allready do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'In a way, you have as much money as Bill Gates.  You both have >1 dollars.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they obviously don't though'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Not to compare homosexuality to beastialty or anything but people who like sex with animals cant marry the thing that they are sexually compatible with either'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'beastiality is distasteful, however I don't see why it's illegal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'animal cruelty'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because animals cannot consent'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh, cat's DO consent lol you have never seen a female cat in heat'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not to human beings'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Holy shit...does that mean if a girl is wet I am just allowed to stick my dick in there? Didn't think so.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'If only... Just kidding of course :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and why the fuck am I being called a troll? Because I see things differently?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'My race is troll on aard but thats about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is your main point'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because your opinions are outlandishly skewed to the controversial'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what I understand from what you posted, it is that gays already have the same rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'this is patently false'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Sexual compatibilty aside, they do have the same rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's really not debateable'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but you're welcome to try'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'can two gay men get married in Texas?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'they have the right to marry the opposite sex, just like everyone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Did you read what I said? In a way, you have the same amount of money as Bill Gates - you both have >1 dollars.  Does that help you see how dumb you sound?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no heres the part that makes you like a troll'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that you apparently can't see the meaningful difference between that literal interpretation and what is actually important in a marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'how it is oppressive to gay people'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You love someone - you both consent to be married.  Gov: "OSHIT 2 dicks or no dicks, soz, no can do"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean that much is pretty blatantly obvious, it seems like you are being sarcastic and we don't see why you'd be doing that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'or at least, if you are, at this point it's kind of not really good sarcasm anymore'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'in a nutshell'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It's like racial segregation - back when blacks and whites could not be married.  "You have the same rights, anyone has the right to marry someone the same race as them"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah I understand that part and they should be abkle to get married and I agree with that despite my religious beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst nods at Vakieh.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But do you not see just how ridiculous your argument is yet?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'America is America and we should have the right to do and say contreversial things'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but there's nothing even really controversial about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats the point, we don't'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, do you have gay friends?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You have the right to say it.  I have the right to call you stupid for saying it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I do, why they can't be married I don't see.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh, yeah I will fess to that. It was just a funny thiought I had the other day when talking to my gay step brother'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Please tell me you didn't spout this at him?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Calling me stupid is fine, you couldnt be more wrong but you can say what you want.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'People in the US in his situation have enough shit to deal with than family talking like you have just been'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay well I did bring it uo in a joke like manner and he lol'd at me and said "duh" which would be the correct response'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which is what I figured in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And yet inside he has potentially just realised that yet another of his supposed support network is a homophobe'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'what religious beliefs do you have that condemn homosexuality?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Gay marriage is not as sensitive of a subject as segragation or black slavery. They are not endearing an equal amount'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'WHa???'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'cause it sure isn't anything Jesus said'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and way to speak for my family Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tell a gay person gay marriage (and homophobia in general) is not a 'sensitive issue',,,'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I am a christian, I beleive that gays can go to heaven and all that. Im not condeming homosexuality and I belive that other christians should allow them in their churches rather then condeming them'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I said not as sensitive'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Are you black or gay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Being denied church is a good thing in my book - opens the mind to things that aren't sky fairies'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Or just republican?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I am libertarian if anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I am a Jewish/Cuban'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You are a Christian Jew?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'yeah, wtf...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Jews for Jesus'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'yep, and I dont support Isreal's Governemt either'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'jewish descent but christian faith'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, personally I think homosexuality is a non-issue. I couldn't care less what other people do to each other and really would thank them not to tell me. I don't need to be that in the loop.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'When did they start allowing religion remorts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'since people decided to change their religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Jews for Jesus is a real group. I know of one office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So the world of Vakieh....Gay, sensitive issue. Religion Bashing, just fine.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I know'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But to be fair Ive never met a gay couple that wasnt totally based on the gay sex that they have with each other'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what does that even mean?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Are you the real snooky?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Holy...motherfucking...shit.  Ever seen a straight couple that wasn't based on straight relationships and sex?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's never "oh I love this person and we mesh so well" It's usually about sexual promiscuity with the same sex as yourself'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that gays don't have deep and meaningful relationship based on love and emotions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's all linked, religious bashing, homophobia, racism. The common denominator is that those who practice any of those forms of xenophobia have a deeply ingrained inferiority complex. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Snooky - ever thought maybe the ones who don't flaunt it you may not notice as being gay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they mostly just hop from partner to partner when they've fucked all of the lust out of their last one, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I dont have Xenophobia'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I mean, come on, I've heard some dumb shit in my time, but 'gays are bad because they are all sluts' takes things to a new low'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but us straight people, we actually love each other meaningfully, now I am being sarcastic but is this what you are getting at?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and yes Cambodia that is usually what gay culture in movies and tv has shown people, is it true? Probably not, but that is the image that hollywood gay would have everyone belive'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because people who are gay don't have stunted emotions, at least in no higher ratio than the rest of straight humanity'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and the way gay people are in the real world is what it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Snooky, this is genuine advice. Throw out everything you think you know and go listen to these people you are speaking about before forming such wild notions.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because hollywood is a WONDERFUL way to judge people.  All blacks are thieves, arabs are terrorists, gays are sluts, nerds are virgins, and white people can't dance.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'hollywood gay is just that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'also, you have to think how gay culture used to be, and why it was that way'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'as well as a unique expression of homosexual aesthetic, it was structured so that gay people could avoid the awkward situation of getting severely beaten or killed for trying to come on to a straight person'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'The times determine what is okay and what isnt, it used to be you could be a 40 year opld man and marry a 13 year old girl. That was the norm and that man wasnt considered a pedophile.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'back when homosexuality wasn't as out in the open'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The times determine the CONSEQUENCES of things'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Doesn't mean that 40 yo wasn't a paedophile'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'nowadays, gays can look "straight" and still be gay, because we are aware enough the the cultural depiction isn't needed to be identified as gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Now being gay is okay and they WILL get their rights, maybe in the future being straight will be a crime punishable by death'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Ah, so that's when rape is not rape, when women used to have no rights!'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as I said, I don't care what others do to each other, but I will complain about gays putting their business out on the street. There is no reason not to be quietly gay. Here is the thing, homosexuality has been around since there were people. One of the most noted groups that practiced homosexuality was the Samuri (they called it Manly Love), and as we know, they would kick your ass without another thought. My point is that you don't have to dress as woman (if you are man), you don't have to wear breast suppressors (if you are a woman) you can just go about your business just like everyone else without having to point to your sexuality. The only reason I can see anyone doing that is for attention (another form of the inferiority complex).'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'O LOOK! A slippery slope argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'It's all based on the times, why didn't I think of that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and now that that is true, gay people don't act any different than straight people except for their gender sexual preference'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so this hollywood gay thing is actually not true'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's a trope'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well the point with that is, why the hell can't you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, you don't have to do that stuff if you are gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Anaristos straight people can display their heterosexuality out in the open'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but, why can't you if that's what you want to do?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is true if you leave in or near Holliwood :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Gay people's voices are silly to me though, I will say that much. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia sighs.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Holiday in Cambodia buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Lol "There is no reason not to be quietly gay."'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there is no "gay peoples voices"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'wow'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'seriously, what's wrong with this country'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am a hetereosexual. I don't recall doing anything that pointed to my sexuality.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no because you take it for granted'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you've never kissed a girl in public?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that you are "normal" when you are "heterosexual"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You've never hit on a woman at a bar?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you don't notice how it is until you see a gay person'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'When you see a gay guy with a tube top and spraypaint green combat boots and a whistle in Chicago and hes screaming "EXCUSE ME!" in a ifemminate voice, you dont laugh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'in actuality they are both equally valid ways of being'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wow... The 'stereotypical gay voice' is somewhat caused by certain gay men's lower levels of testosterone - I know plenty of gay men who don't have 'the voice''
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's louis CK and he is funny'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Saying they are lesser people because of lower hormones...you are a pretty shit person'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as I said, what you do has nothing to do with your sexuality. There are gay football players, doctors, lawyers, every category. There is no need to paint a pink "P" on your back if you are gay.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yeah straight people have equivalent outliers, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are the get-laid douchebag dudes'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and there is the gay equivalent'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh who are youy calling a shit person?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'only in a lot of cases, if you are straight your sexuality didn't have to be denied, so when you get a chance to flex it you are damn well going to take it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What for?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, I can see how I would want to be like that if I were gay.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so straight men flount thery heterosexuality by not wearing make up and ruffled calypso pants... I get your point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that is my point'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I never said I think another person is of a lower class, you are jumping to that because this might be a sensitive issue for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you never answered my question'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pretty clearly explained - anyone who considers other people to be lesser, or to be jested over, because of a lower level of testosterone causing a higher pitched voice, is a shit person imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if we all wore makeup then not wearing it would be "flaunting"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you miss the point, because some of the people who don't flaunt their sexuality are gay.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'of course it is supposed to have a ridiculous effect compared to how society is supposed to look'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'those who flaunt it do it for the attention the gather.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If you laugh at someone for something they have no controll over, that is thinking less of them as a person - it is called respect'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but from a moral standpoint there is absolutely no more or less validity between one and the other'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'busllshit they have no control over it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'being dressed as a goth isn't illegal'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right, in fact, most of them are gay (who don't look especially like it)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anaristos, I meant the higher pitched voice'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm assuming your are American, isn't America the land of the "free"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but the point is, why is it actually better somehow for them to not "be too gay"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'rofl twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I said it was funny Vakieh not lower than myself. I thought they were doing that voice on purpose. And some of them do'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'what is so offensive about "being too gay"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Free to be ignorant and insensitive'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right because they like being gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'its a spectrum, you can be as gay or straight as you want to be'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So lets say some guy had to talk in a high pitched clown volice all the time, no part of your fucking brain would find that funny'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: '?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that affectation is modern. Homosexuality has been around from day one. Plato, Socrates, Aristotles, they didn't walk around dropping the soap in public. Whatever they did, they did it behind closed doors where it belongs. I don't care which way you lean, I don't want to know what you do and I don't want you to know what I do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Some of them change their voice to fit in with their community? Wow, whodathunk? And if you laugh at someone for something like that, it means you have no respect for them'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you know, I worked a job for a minute once with a guy who was *extremely* gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and no, I wouldn't, not really, not unless he said something funny in that really gay voice'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which he would do'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It would be like looking at an amputee struggling to balance, and laughing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well that sounds more like a personal stance on PDA'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So they dont have to talk like that but they do, A guy with a thin moustace and a high pitched voice is silly looking and sounding but I have to think in my head "hrm he is a serious man with beliefs and shit"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'which is fine'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yeah snooky that's a maturity thing really'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and as far as it being a spectrum, that doesn't apply. Homosexuality has nothing to do with your behavior, though obviously, that's the popular view.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'at least, not having the full human respect on the bottom line'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'That is a stretch Vakieh being gay is not being an amputee'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, it's your sexual orientation on a base primal chemical level'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A stretch? Something they have no control over, and you are laughing at it.  Same fucking dif'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but then, are you saying that sexuality doesn't affect your behavior?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I mean, if you didn't laugh at all at John Waters, he'd probably be offended'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Yeah, I remember that time in the Bible Jesus saw that gay dude and laughed at him, that was great. He couldn't help it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'In his defence that leper looked just like a turd.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but to not be able to respect him as an actual human being instead of a cartoon is kind of immature'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But I believe that you are feigning being offended Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I am not offended, I am not gay, I do not have a high pitched voice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I never said that I cant respect a gay person as a human being, I allready do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'My point is that all that public acting is done to make themselves a special interest group with all the benefits that that entails.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh just decided to assume thats what I was saying'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I am, however, digusted by your manner of dehumanising people for something they are born with'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rhubarb'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Define dehumanising, because I think you are using it wrong.,'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Showing a lack of basic human respect to other humans.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'homosexuality is sooo gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Laughing at people for something they are born with, or for choosing to fit in with their community by emulating those who are born with 'that voice''
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I do respect other humans. I've shown more respect for gays than you have for my religion throughout this entire debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something they're born with?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't get born gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Religion is not automatically something worthy of respect.  People are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'look, the gay people who "act gay" are the equivalent of the people we all know who like to act "extra straight"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there are cartoons of that guy, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Some people do choose to be gay, some parents raise their kids crappy and then they turn gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so are you saying that that "ladies man" dude doesn't have the right to be like he does?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'holy crap'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Snooky, please google science.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'actually, legitimately being gay doesn't work like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what the hell are you talking about? Do you think that homosexual cavemen went around looking for makeup to put on? They want out and did what every other cavemen did, provide. That crap about "the woman (or man) inside" is a fiction. Samurais didn't go around acting affected even though they engaged in homosexuality. They were warriors and that is what they did. They distinguished themselves by being the best warriors they could be, regardless of what they did in their leisure hours behind closed doors. So that crap about wearing the pink "P" is bullshit. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'pretty sure you cant choose to be gay..'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'so you are nopt religious so you dont need to respect a person's beliefs but they better be unflinchingly tolerant of yours? Okay gotcha'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You can choose to be stupid apparently though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'no, what's wrong with wearing the P?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'what is actually wrong with that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Being gay is not a belief'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'if that's the kind of gay you want to be'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sexual preference is a sexual preference, there's likely a genetic disposition to it, but otherwise it's a preference based on your experiences and upbringing'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I find belief in fairies, Odin, God or voices in your head equally invalid opinions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might as well say you were born liking chips'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anaristos, culture evolves, and the point of gay people putting on makeup is that they were moving into the 'female' side of the culture of the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Tigernuts is right'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Or more accurately, that they were not going to be bound by the purely masculine culture of the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'nothing wrong except that it is done to attract attention, it is not  done because homosexuality drives them to do it. They (those who wear the pink P) want to be seen as a special interest group. The point of special interest group is that they see themselves as elite.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'i think you are way off tiger its not the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'If you raise your kids gay or let them watch the disney channel too much your gonna get some gay kids'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm not, tofting, i'm looking at my own culture'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'How do you raise someone gay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Don't make 'em listen to good 'ol god-fearin white folk'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it is done to attract homosexual attention'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because gays really feel elite, right'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'just like straight people do with straight aesthetics'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'telling your daughter she can marry another princess when she grows up, or teaching kids about gay sex and fisting and shit during sex ed'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't know how to raise someone straight either, please enlighten me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'doesn't make them gay Snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Every gay person ever was told they could be gay as a child.  All of them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'you can choose to be gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nature vs nurture bullshit, i'll leave you to it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'the fact that it isn't accepted the same as straight aesthetic makes it a special interest'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and no snooky, you cannot choose'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it is wired into you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I worked with a guy that chose to be gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'your body responds as it does'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'then got back into women for a while'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'so he was bisexual'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'He was bi'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people won't have an digital switch that says gay or straight'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a continuum'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'one of my friends was bi also, she's with a man now'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Being curious and open to testing doesn't mean you choose to be gay. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I believe that everyone posseses a measurable amount of homosexuality'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I think that more men are binary about their sexuality though than women, when it comes to it, but there's nothing proven about that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lets say for the sake of argument that being gay is a coice'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I bet that if you could choose to be gay, all women would be gay.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is wrong with that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'how do you quantify gay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well there is being able to appreciate the beauty of someone, male or female'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Cambodia, men are more binary because of the IMMENSE stigma towards 'not being straight''
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts points excitedly at Seltsimees Dagnir!
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and there is what your body responds to sexually from a human being'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'you don't get to choose how your body responds'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have no self control?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'If you can find another man handsome but not want to have sex with him. Thats a measurable amount'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you measure that against what scale?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'not self control over how you feel'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'bodily arousal is a bad measure of sexual desire'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'self control over what you do, yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'yeah most everyone has a measurable amount of homosexuality if that is what you call it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Guys get erections all the time for no reason whatsoever'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Not in Texas!'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well there is that and there is sexual arousal'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A moving car is enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And how do you quantify sexual arousal?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If not by bodily functions?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'they are discovering with men that the psychological component of the arousal and the physical component aren't always necessarily paired'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'there is you getting an erection, like if you have to pee, which is an erection that isn't sexual'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I "discovered" that when I was 13'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I read about a test that involed looking at pictures of men and women and the testee rates them on a 1-10 level of arousal and uses the results to find where that person is on a gay/straight spectrum'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and there is being actually turned on by someone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'homosexuality is how the powers that be are hoping to solve the population crisis'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Snooky, looking at a picture of a woman, I can then look at 10 pictures of men, but my head is still thinking about the woman.  Totally invalid test.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well the test would need you to be honost Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'How do you enforce that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'science, google it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you guys are missing the point: your sexual preference is your and your partner's business. Not mine, not the other person. Yours. I have as much right to not know what you do with another person as you have the right to do whatever you want with that person.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'By making sodomy illeagal'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'sodomy is already illegal where I live'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So is any position other than missionary'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Where do you have a right "not to know" something?" You don't want to know I'm black so I have to wear white paint?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'also illegal to have sex with the blinds open'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But anaristos, why are heterosexual sex acts ok for screen, advertisment, all over the place, but a man/man or woman/woman kiss and O LORD CORRUPTING OUR CHILDREN BURN IN HELL?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'what's the penalty for doggie style? :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oral sex is also a crime against nature in my state'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I like how you just hearing about this test from me makes it invalid. Why don't you look up sexual spectrum test on google before you jump to yopur anti semantic jib jab at me'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'people seem to think you can catch it by being around it for some reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anti semitism, eh? I would think you were as bad a person regardless of your heritage'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And sex with objects if you're not married is also a crime against nature in my state.  So yeah...there's laws for ya.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei . o O ( I've done too much research in this area... )
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'so you get married and then you can fuck all the objects you want?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'toys, it means'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'vibrators, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Objects deserve the same rights as the rest of us'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Vakieh, I don't like movies with gratuitous sexual content, no matter the orientation. Same for literature. There are exceptions, of course. But as a rule, I find them offensive. The less they have to do with the work in progress the more offensive I find it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I simply feel comfort in the knowledge that you are a dying breed - as regions develop, religion and discrimination retreat, and eventually - it won't be tomorrow, but it will happen - all like you will be dead and buried.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well that's cool that you find it offensive'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anaristos, that was for Snooky, not for you - you I simply find a prude :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'it's just not really moral I don't think to base laws around that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is offensive, just as offensive as watching someone use the toilet. What the hell do I need to see that in a movie?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'so I'm shitty, but you wish death on me and all who are like me? Fuck off dude you aint shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But I hope you repent'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I accept the fact that sometimes it is require, but gratuitously? Very offensive.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'well I sure don't watch gratuitously gay movies'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'but they should be allowed'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'and why not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wish death? Nah, wish extinction.  You can have your alloted, what did god say? 120 years? (bc that happens a lot) Then you can die off and eventually your grandchildren will think of you like I hope you think of slavers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'because like Anaristos, I don't prefer to watch things that are really gay for no reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's your problem, I don't watch porn no matter the orientation.  If rather have the reality than the fantasy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'gay sex is gross, fact.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Did you not hear me say google science!? Add fact to that list of things to google.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'gays like it though'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'I do watch straight romantic comedies'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'and they can watch the gay ones'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Holiday in Cambodia: 'that's a free country'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you think that gays like to watch porn more so than heterosexuals?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and hitler loved killing jews, there is a Vakieh balnket statement for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pretty sure that's true'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Comedies don't usually involve sexual acts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I disagree.  The acting in adult films is quite comedic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Considering he ordered directly and indirectly the deaths of 6 million Jews, part of 14 million total camp related deaths'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'gays arent harming anyone else by bumming each other. hitler hurt the odd jew. can you see the difference??'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'AND HERE WE ARE - Godwin after what, 40 mins?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah I was being sarcastic, my parents died in the holocaust'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'hitler was just following orders'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Your parents? Not likely, you sounding like perhaps 17'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'So how does the holocaust ties in with homosexuality?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hitler killed homos too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'that would mean your parents were at least 15 in 1940...which would make you in your 70's, at least...I'm thinking not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Calling troll or simple delusional at this point'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'There's hope, maybe it was just a troll and not a plague on society!'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If only all those pollies would just stand up, say "lol I troll u" and piss off'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'yeah and prob swings both ways'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'lol you guys are like shrews just preying on whoever does not share your perverse beliefs'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'God burned down Sodom and Gamora for a reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'hmm...I didn't know shrews preyed on stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pervers, eh? Did we not discuss how you were a homophobe, and your step brother has likely picked up on that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'America is a modern day Sodom or Babylon'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Im not a homophobe, i do not fear them'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'in denial too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Wow so you guys can read mny mind now too?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, the US is decadent. No big news there. Decadence is a a sign that the "Fall" part of "The Rise and Fall..." is in effect.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'God split the languages of Babylon because they dared build their Tower to high.  But sending people to the moon, and Voyager all the way to the edge of the solar system? Fuck it, I'm tired from keeping all these African children starving, helping douches win football games, and tsunamis and shit, they can deal'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I'm sorry I have a more diverse set of beliefs and more robust and informed opinions than you do Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Informed opinion - the bible is not an acceptable source on the bible's validity.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'informed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei gets a blank look on his face.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So you assume that the bible is my source of everything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Kindly produce citations for your work, Vaklieh or we will have to delete your text. Also, if you would be so kind as to throw in one or two eyewitnesses to the events you describe, it would be much appreciated.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No - pretty good excuse though'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What events are they?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Snooky, is your idea of "robust and informed opinion" this: "gay sex is gross, fact."'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'trolling?... this channel should just be called "troll"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the splitting of languages and such, Vakieh :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yeah, to that I have to ask - when did you try it to find this information out?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I walked in on my step bro powerbottoming another dude'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I personally believe it's bullshit, but as for the Abrahamic belief, start here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'it was gross'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Should've knocked'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So you told him "you having sex with another man is gross" - bet he felt just great about that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If it had been your sister, would it have been less gross?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Still gross from a family perspective but yeah less gross'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If the answer is yes, you need to seek professional help.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Sigh, let's back up...Do you know what a fact is?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I know what a fact is, gay sex is gross to me, fact'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: ''to me' being the required qualifier there'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'You do NOT kno '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I don't think you do know what a fact is'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the fact that city states like Babylon, Sodom, Gomorrah, were destroyed is really not that significant and I doubt if they had to do with the wrath of god. Those are but a few of the city we know were destroyed. I but there are 100s more we have never heard about.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Something can't be a fact only to you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Its a fact that I belive that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'fact and god should never be used in the same sentence'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'were you slightly jealous?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'sure it is, but that's not what you said'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'It's a fact that you have that opinion. See how that works?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay semantics police, lets go after everyone then an not just the jew'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'God being real, the bible being correct about what god is/does, and starving children in africa.  One or more of those 3 things cannot be true.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Snooky, present another person who holds your beliefs and I will call them just as shitty as you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Semantics? You don't know what a freaking fact is. Please stop accusing people of wishing death on you when you can't debate over a 4th grade level.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Snooky you are stuck with a program, aren't you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Also, we really need to talk about this Christian/Jew thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'o? We do?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I know what a fact is I just used it wrong on purpose because saying "Gay sex is gross, opinion" just isnt as funny'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You can't be a Jew to be anti-semited against and yet be a Christian.  Hebrew Christian perhaps, but not Jew'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I can be whatever I want'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I am a unicorn.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'fact'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wow, and here I thought that a Jew was a racial thing. It declared membership in a certain gene pool. I didn't know that there was a difference between a Jew and a Hebrew :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'but other people can't be whatever they want to be, because some of those things are gross?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Shit, no horn.  And no hooves.  Screw it I'm getting a beer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'To me Jews are the decendants of Shem :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Shem brother of Hem :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You can fuck whatever you want and I have the right to think if it is gross or not'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Snooky person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'take a valium, Snooky.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Quit putting words in my mouth'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And I have the right to call you a homophobe for those beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'But drinking fermented wheat is almost like eating animal food which is almost like beastiality, thus drinking bear is kinda like beastiality.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and we get to tell you're intolerant for saying so, Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos peers intently at Ixle.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Fact: drinking beer is the devil.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'gross is ok. immoral is not ok'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And you have the right to be a pompous D-bag'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'you can convert to judaism, Anaristos, and you're treated equally as those born into it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Intolerant...is this like antiracism again?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'antiracism is discrimination'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'hey, guys, pass the drugs around, don't drop and talk and expect those who haven't dropped to follow your conversation.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's good, Tigernuts. If you don't like a bigot you are a racist. I love that one :) Kudos to you :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I think I really just need to dwell on the whole "you are a dying breed" thing, smile, and continue getting my beer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'where are yoiu giuys getting this bigot shit from?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i get so fucking sick of everyone calling everyone else "bad" names just because they dare to have a fucking opinion'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'I dare to have a fact.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'When those 'bad' names are descriptors of opinions, they are quite warranted'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't presume to consider fact and opinion to be equivalent'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i need to get fact'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, frankly, I am not sure that it can be proved that there are any real Jews around. When Judea was destroyed, the population scattered to the 4 winds and mixed with other gene pools.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't serve the same purpose'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh I understand that being hyper pro gay is in right now and that you have a need to be popular'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'They can if Snooky wants them to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Someone who believes in creation is a creationist.  Someone who believes gay sex is 'gross' is a homophobe.  Simple language right there.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if someone wants to live a Jew, then let them live as a fucking Jew. As long as they're not setting fire to your bush, what does it matter to you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I explained that Ixle drop that and learn a new trick besides semantics'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You also called him shitty'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it doesn't matter to me, but that doesn't mean I can't wonder if the gene pool is actually extant.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'so if you dont enjoy gay porn you are a homophobe?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If 'living like a Jew' is screaming antisemitism because people think she is a bad person, then yes, she can be a Jew'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently, Snooky, that's the immediate implication'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can call yourself a Jew if you want, doesn't mean you are one.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'This is america right now in the north'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'you can think gay sex is gross without being homophobic'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Canada, huh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the indication from others here, Tofting, is that you cannot'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'If you arent gay or practically about to be like Vakieh you are a bigot and they start laying into Jesus and the bible and shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that is what's wrong with so much of society these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Snooky, are you drunk?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'you can't say things like comparing homosexuality with beastiality, and "gay sex is gross" without being called a homophobe is more like it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've swung from not caring about stuff like that, to being discriminatory, to flipping to the opposite'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'And no, it doesn't matter that you qualified your camparison with "not that I'm comparing"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I am about to be gay? QUICK, BRING A CAMERA'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'That's God punishing you for drinking beer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't mince about with a manbag, wear a earring and use hair products, and think sticking your willy up another man's bottom you're homophobic'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and that's the whole problem. You want to claim you are not a racist, but you won't sit next to certain minorities on the bus. You certainly won't let your daughter marry one. But, yeah, you are not a racist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vakieh puts on his Attenborough voice: "And here we have the moment *dramatic pause* where the elusive almost-gay takes the final plunge into homoerotic, Satan worshipping gayness"
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just in the same way as if you don't agree with abortions, you're anti-womens rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Is that why there were half a dozen states that got constitutional bans implemented prohibiting same-sex marriage last year?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Abortion is murder to me, but I support a states right to allow it....hers goes'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Being anti abortion is being against women choosing to abort, and therefore against women choosing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know the details, leinei, but i'm guessing there's some sort of state-level indicatory link between the definition of marriage and religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Tigernuts, you can be antiabortion without supporting legislation to take that choice away from someone else.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can, ixle'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately democracies don't work like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and gay marriage should be a states rights issue and not a federal one'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Yes they do'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no they fucking don't'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Most people that think being gay is wrong are secretly gay. make that all, not most.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'That's why it's called "pro-choice"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Democracy is an excellent way of majority v minority oppression.  But YAY for the Free America'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have loads of shit inflicted on me as illegal because other idiots have different opinions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is the nature of democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'Sounds like you're straying, but the only people I hear being accused of being anti-women's rights are the ones trying to restrict their "choice" to do what they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Gay marriage shouldn't be a state thing, shouldn't be a Federal thing - it should just be, and the gov can gtfo of it all'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err no, vakieh, completely wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Crazy we live in a world where if you dont like sodomy and killing babies you are a bigot and a shitty person'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, snooky, it's a bit backwards isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am of the opinion that women should be the deciders. I don't think I have a right to force someone else to have a child I wouldn't support. I think that those who want women to bring unwanted children to term should step up and take responsibility for them. It is hypocritical to tell someone else not to do something and then have them live with the consequence of following your advise while you go on about your business.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Marriage should just be something between 2 people. Noone else should be involved.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: '2 or more.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'completely right you mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Consenting adult and consenting adult, repeat as needed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If you want to marry your 7 best friends and your dog, I'm fine with it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '(not the dog)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hell I'm against divorce more than any of that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Same goes for divorce.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Again though because of religios beliefs'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'ugh, I am drunk btw'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Hm, I actually agree with Anaristos for once.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'should be allowed to marry nore than one too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Stop interfering in other peoples life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I am against marriage. I do favor contracts, though. Contract law is sufficient to handle the needs of society.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'God also says in either Deuteronomy or Leviticus you must marry your rapist - what do your religious beliefs tell you there?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the gay marriage argument in the UK is actually just over the definition of the word 'marriage''
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That's what it is in some states in the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no difference in legal rights between married heterosexual and married homosexuals'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'There should be no legal difference between married and unmarried couples.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Many US states have civil unions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My state just passed a constitutional amendment last may defining the only legal union as a marriage between a man and a woman'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with that, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't think there is anything wrong with marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'i.e. unmarried couples have no legal rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My country has it done well - de facto = married.  Now we just have a little aesthetics fight for universal marriage as a word, and we're done with that round'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't need to do anything special. Just make a contract with someone. The legal infrastructure is already in place and back by lots and lots of case law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I would hope that my relationship with my spouse is more than just a 'contract''
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a marriage like anaristos says, is a neat legal package that allows the state to offer certain benefits'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'after all, the reason the state meddles is because of the financial ramifications more than anything else.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'In the eyes of the tax man, it need only be a contract'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and that's all it need to be. It would be simpler for 2 people to go to a lawyer draw a contract and live by it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the good thing ABOUT the way -your- country works, is that you can get your state rules changed'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'a constitutional amendment is a whole heck of a lot harder to change than a regular law'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'so, it'll be around for a long, long time'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'm saying that if you want rights, make a contract. If you want to marry, do that. Those should not be connected. Imho. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it might be, but it's still easier to achieve at a state level'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can all it marriage if you want, Starling. But a contract would insure that all obligations would be met by all parties for the specified amount of time. Now you can get married on Monday and be divorced by Friday.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'me idea would be that two people would agree to meet certain obligations for a determined amount of time. After that they can either go their separate ways or reneww.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'how would a contract change that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"you broke the contract, I want a divorce"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because a contract is more binding than a marriage and cleaner, too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'just because someone signs a contract saying they're not going to sleep with your sister doesn't mean they're not going to'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Then again, I don't know if I want to ever get married, seems like a lot of hassle if a divorce is necessary'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'from the legislator's point of view, that's all marriage is - a special type of contract'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Whereas, if you're merely dating you can break up and it's easier.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, you break the contract you suffer the penalties specified  in the contract.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Not that breaking up is easy, but it seems easier than involving lawyers and courts'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'though breach of contract could be a way to dissolve the contract, it would be very costly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'how's that any different than a prenup?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what would happen then would be that people would first sign short term contracts, 1 to 5 years probably. If they see that they are compatible they may opt for longer contracts after the expiration of the first, or even take a change on a permanent contract. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So a 1 term contract and going your separate ways is somehow better than a divorce?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if it doesn't work out, the dissolution clause of the contract kicks in and everyone walks away.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I doubt it would end up that simple though'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Isn't that how a divorce works?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'You know lawyers and possibly court would be involved anyway, disputing this or that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: '9/11 was an inside job you guys'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, because it is done under a controlled environment. The parties know exactly what they agreed to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US jobs figures didn't look good'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'As does every single person that signs a prenup'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Snooky.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, a prenup is basically a good idea, but usually one-sided.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You don't think these contracts of yours will be, too?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'e.g. "X doesn't apply here because duress exists, Y was misrepresented from the beginning, blah, blah, blah, etc., etc."'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'in Norway, most of the rules people would typically add to that kind of contract are automatic for cohabitation anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Or are you suggesting required contracts drafted by people not involved in the contract itself?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so it's like 0.7x marrige or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the contract I am thinking about would make both parties expose the assets they are bringing in.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I cant wait until gay people are each in their like 42nd marriges because their relationships are so fleeting unless they are both old'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, the prospective partners would go to a contract law specialist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Would be simple if the parties always represented their assets accurately, which they won't'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Not saying they would be intentionally deceptive, just that mistakes would get made, and you end up in court anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that's true, Starling. I would make that a clause in the contract with attendant penalties.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the typical elements of those contracts could be set up on a gov't website, not need to involve lawyers, filthy things'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Lawyers are good Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Forcing people to sign a contract that they weren't a part of creating, in order to get recognition from the government is a bad idea.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Like..when under 10k feet of ocean?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'It's one thing if they wrote it themselves, but you're suggesting required clauses'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'when it comes to comprehending the law\'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Leinei's question.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but if you are make the contracts proactive then it doesn't matter what assets the parties have, since only the declared assets would be involved.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'they read the laws so you don't have a stroke trying to do it yourself'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'reading is h4rd '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have a law degree myself, so I don't get strokes'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I bet you consider lawsuits frivilous and want less of those too right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Snooky.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I would say for instance. I will only contribute $xxx to the partnership. If I get a raise, that's no problem. If I lose my job I am in breach'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'ahhh america'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'in particular, US tort law is 80% crazy, it seems..'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most law is crazy'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most law could do with being repealed, go back to some basics + a jury of peers'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So "'til death do us part, in sickness and in health" is now changed to "as long as you keep your job"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hey guys Ixle wants you guys to think he is smart, lets all validate him so he doesnt cry'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'I wish I could agree with you Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, no, as long as you honor the contract :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ixle: 'I want to believe the same thing, but then I am reminded of who some of my "peers" are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I have to check out that one "Illegal monkey living on Frosted Flakes"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I'm sorry, but a marriage is a emotional partnership, not a business agreement.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point is you can work around situations where your income dries up, I just made that an example. The whole point is that major events as change of income are discussed prior to the marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Exactly. So, move the business part out of marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the partnership, that is :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'lol at your web adress Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my name is Mike'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there are also intangible issues such as leisure time, division of work, etc. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'None of which a couple should be forced to decide before a marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Why cant it just be about the love baby? Get those contracts out of here, women dont have anything to worry about anymore they make almost as much as men and some of them work just as hard.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all this can be put into the contract. Right now all that is left to chance, the prospective partners go into marriage with no idea how things are going to work. Contracts would force the partners to think ahead, far enough to complete the contract successfully.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nobody should be forced to anything just because they get married. It should be up to everyone to decide for themselves if and how their relationship contract should look.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and it would be a real commitment rather than a fantasy trip.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"I've really grown to love you during these 20 years that we were married, and I couldn't live without you, but you lost your job, and the contract says that I have to leave you.  Sorry"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And religion should defintely not be part of any legal contracts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wow, Ranrr. That means that either partner can do what they want without regards to the expectations of the other partner. That's a great recipe.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Why the heck should these huge decisions be made before a couple is ever married, rather than after they've been married for 20 years and can make much more informed decisions?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'because they are important. They go into a partnership with the view to build something out of it and they commit themselves to it, and they put it into a contract to profess that commitment and bind themselves to it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Marriage should not be endorsed by the state. It should remain as nothing more than a ceremony. People should be able to be in as many relationships as they want.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If I want to participate more in my kids' upbringing and do more housework in exchange for working less and making less money, and my wife is fine with that, I shouldn't be allowed to because 20 years ago, I agreed that I would make 60% of our family's income?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If they choose to do so, yes. Unless they make a oral or written contract otherwise. It's no different with the current system.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think the sheldon system of having a relationship agreement is pretty good, tbh. I think I'll try that next time :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And if you want to, more power to you.  But you shouldn't be forced to an agreement of which someone else wrote 90% of.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Leinei, that's all fine, but to leave it as a vague goal is one of the problems that plague marriages. "I thought you were going to do that and you didn't" is a familiar accusation. Followed by "Well, if he/she won't do that, I won't do the other thing either"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a recipe for disaster.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And forcing someone to stay in a loveless marriage will turn a disaster into a resounding sucess?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what love got to do with it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'love has everything to do with a marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'make the contract for one year, at the end of the year renew it for another year, if you are so afraid that you are going to stop loving you partner.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'hell make the contract for 90 days.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The point being what?  That a contract will make a marriage more likely to suceed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently Hungary is in diplomatic problems with USA after it banned Montsanto from planning GMO stuff in their country'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Our grandparents didnt have these problems, what the fuck is worng woith us'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but for whatever amount of time, you can't shirk your commitment. Something you can do now with the current partnership.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Again...why force people to stay in a loveless marriage?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I heard about that Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'your grandparents understood honor :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'USA needs to ban Monsanto from planting crops here as well'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you can't commit to a 1-year contract, you shouldn't be married to that person anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA has been talking about trade wars with countries that refuse to let Montsanto pollute them'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are wikileaks bits about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah, between this and gay-ifying america the NWO is trying to fuck us all really hard and gross. Grosser than gay sex'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'chill, Snooky :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.cablegatesearch.net/cable.php?id=07PARIS4723'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'FBI begins installation of $1bn face recognition system across american'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Not all divorces are "omg, I want to run away and abandon my spouse"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Ya know whats funny Monsanto products are banned from the cafiterias of Monsanto employees'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Most divorces are caused by todays fickle women'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but not banned from CVS and Walgreens :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'BTW, it's illegal to get divorced in my state in the first year unless you get the marriage anulled.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And it's strictly enforced'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Can anyone give me a good reason to vote for Mitt Romney?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Leinei, that's great but that doesn't solve the problem. Because the marriage you speak of has no internal dynamics that can be pointed to. They "fell in love" and got married, a week later she found out she couldn't stand the guy so now she's stuck with him for a year. Had they sat down and attempted to construct a year of their lives they would have had a better chance to find out they were not compatible before they committed to anything. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's not Obama, doesn't support huge increases in the welfare state that will lead to the further collapse of the economy, isn't a communist and doesn't want a collectivist, all-powerful central government that runs roughshod over the constitution and accepted powers of member states'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the first 3 words should be enough for any sane american'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You act like people get married a day after they meet.  Some people are together for decades before they got married'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You think signing a piece of paper is going to make them more likely to want to stay with each other?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and besides, love in my scenario would be a bonus, not a requirement. The contract specifies that target so that's what they are committing to, if they love each other, they will probably renew, if they don't, they won't, but at the end of the year they can claim something tangible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My wife and I got divorced 5 or 6 years ago.  We still love each other, and still did while we were getting divorced.  It was a mutual decision we both came to.  We both decided that each of us had a better chance of being happy not married to each other.  Drafting and signing some contract before we got married wouldn't magically made us both happy together.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is no requirement for people to commit to a contract at a particular time, all I am saying that  marriage, as it stands, doesn't work. Contractual partnership has more to offer because the minimum goal is clearly stated and the partners commit to bring that goal about.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people are just obsessed with bits of paper and rules and laws'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'way too much imho'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if we didn't live in an overbearing nanny-state authoritarian surveillance grid, this whole issue would be mute'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, the US has enough money for a whole heap MORE helpful gov. run things, if they simply drop their military spending to only 10% above the second runner.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And you mean moot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and moot'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think marriage, as it stands, works just fine.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'other than all the laws getting passed restricting who can participate in it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well neither party is planning that, but only one is planning smaller goernment'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like here in the UK - we don't need higher welfare, we just need less/fairer taxation and less interference'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Only one party is planning on moving gov help out of certain things.  Guess where that money is going? Not lower taxes, I can tell you that.  More guns and tanks? You betcha'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'that smaller goverment comes at a price'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well then it's clear you need to vote third party'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'we need the US to get rid of most of their bases around the world too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and cut off aid to Isreal while they're at it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i could pull $15bn out of the UK budget in one swoop by returning overseas aid to an actual AID budget'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think that the a partnership based on some fictitious romantic imperative is doomed to failure, statistically speaking. The drive to mate that we all feel is not a basis for marriage. That drive was simply codified at the genesis of civilization and  the idea has been beaten to death. It is time to look at the dynamics of civil partnerships in a new and more relevant light.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And if a partnership based on romantic imperative fails...so what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'What's the big deal?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no big deal, I agree. But tell me, why are there divorce lawyers?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Because there are divorce laws'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so the state codifies the disruption of the marriage in a one-size-fits-all way and you say that is better than committing to a contract and dissolving it naturally.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'dissolving it naturally?  You think introducing binding contracts to the situation would decrease the need for divorce lawyers?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, the contract has an expiration date.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, they would disappear.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'doesn't change the fact that they're in effect until they expire'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'more rules = more need for lawyers'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Lawyers deal with laws'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That's why they're called lawyers'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point is, the contract is entered because the partners want to archive some tangible goal. Whether they love each other or not has no effect on the contract. You can become the partner of a person that you may respect, but not love and commit yourself to carrying out certain tasks for the mutual benefit of both partners, as your partner also commits. Simple.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the contract codifies a pooling of resources, that's the basic premise.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And while you're in that loveless partnership, you're prohibited from participating in a loving partnership'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Unless you're also advocating polygamy'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's up to the partners, and if they agree that as long as that doesn't impair the goal, they may agree to separate intimate lives.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but that is, again, beside the point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I don't think it's beside the point at all.  If the goal of a marriage has nothing to do with love, what types of goals are you suggesting?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you think that love is the centerpiece of the partnership. I say that it is irrelevant.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If you're getting married for some reason other than love. then I think you're getting married for the wrong reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who said anything about marriage? I said a partnership, love may enter into it but not contractually.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'We've been talking about marriage this whole time...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '2 people needn;'t love each other, they only really need to respect each other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So what exactly are your proposed "goals" of a partnership?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's up to the partners. The goals can be as varied as there are person pairs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, what's the difference between this partnership and any other business agreement/contract?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'though, as an obvious corollary, 2 is only the minimum :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Say, the one I sign when I started work at my job?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'acutally, there is no difference, except that the contract may call for goals that are not found in the normal business community.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Such as?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'body wash'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'let's say, as a trivial example, that they commit to spend a month living in luxury in some exotic country. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I can do that with anyone I want right now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Heck, I did do that a few years ago, but replace "exotic country" with "3-bedroom house"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so the contract for a year and the carry out this goal. At the end of the year, they find that they are congenial and renew the same contract ore amend it to point to other goal(s).'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Love and Marriage Love and Marriage, go together like a horse and carriage this, I tell ya brother, ya cant have one without the....ooooootherrrr Love and marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they may even decide on a 5-year contract this time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is mostly a lot of balls, you realise'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I just don't understand why you're trying to replace the traditional marriage system with this, when it doesn't provide anything at all that a normal business contract would provide.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'even if they decide to have children, they can state post-contractual obligations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'wouldn't provide*'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're arguing over legal positions of marriage for the purposes of fair dissemination of property in a world which is at risk of entirely collapsing, finanacially, morally, and literally'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oh yeah, that's what we need more of.  Children with parents who don't love each other'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'becuse traditional marriage doesn't really work, it only works randomly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to say there are bigger fish to fry is an understatement'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You know how many contract lawyers there are?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In which way is the world collapsing morally?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is corrupt and greedy'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you really put too much emphasis on this fictional thing you call love. The need to reproduce is what originated the idea of marriage, and things haven't changed that much. Though the rituals and lore have increased practically without bound.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and decadent and immoral'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'culture and governments have steered people away from the idea of personal responsiblity'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'hah, love fictional.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's been that way for at least 100k years. That's status quo.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei comforts SnailBot Anaristos.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we now have entire populations who are victim-trained'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'love is fictional in the sense you use it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky is agreeing with that Tigernuts person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I hope you have the chance to have the experience to change your mind.  I really do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Because I can assure you it's not fictional.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i saw a great story though, about a 93yr old war veteran who shot a burglar that was threatening him'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'If you can show that people who don't love each other (in the sense you mean) but respect each other nonetheless can't be nurturing partners I won't say another word.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thought that was awesome'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I seen that on Infowars Tiger'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Would have been ever better if he didn't shoot him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was on a bunch of places, Snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Isn't that exactly what you're arguing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That you don't need love?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Matt Drudge, think is where I picked it up'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I know thats just where I seen it first, I watch infowars soley for entertainment value mostly. I think it was you who recommended me Natural News awhile back and Ive been keeping up with that on a serious tip.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I never said love equates to a sucessful marriage.  I'm proof of that myself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am stating that respect is sufficient and necessary for nurturing a family. I am further proposing that partners that respect each other can commit to custom contracts to carry out these goals, rather than have the state make generalized rules to goad them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So Ranrr, what would you suggest the old man had done instead of defend his house?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was being threatened, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'What exactly do you think the cause of the high rate of divorce is?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mutiple intruders, one kicked the door in from his basement to where he was waiting and started threatening, he just shot'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Fickle women cause divorce today, mostly at least'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'dissipation of commitment.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was totally in his rights to, and that's one less shithead that will be housebreaking in the future'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'winwin'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those others that were robbing with him might think twice in the future'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'commitment to what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'to the partnership, either partner found that they had better things to do elsewhere and had nothing to bind them to the heretofore agreed goals.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if there's any doubt, i'm totally supportive of "stand your ground" laws for defending your house, and wish they'd implement them here so that we didn't have naff and bunk'em interpretations of the existing law here which is supposed to offer a sensible balanced version of the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but because of idiot judges, people can't rely on it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'subject ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if the partnership starts out with concrete goals, it has a much better chance to reach that goal and successfully end the contract.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I moved in with my wife after the divorce to help her pay her bills.  I was there for her when she had a miscarriage.  I gave her my own bed to sleep in when she was afraid of her husband beating her.  I can assure you, a lack of comittment had nothing at all to do with our divorce.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'That makes you sound like a doormat Leinei'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a bit unfair, snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'defacto - what is the stance on that status ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because you divorce someone doesn't mean you don't care about them'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I certainly will not pry and I won't speculate and I won't use what you just said to support my argument or revoke yours. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But I'm in a similar situation sans a marriage but with a child between the two of us'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just means the relationship is not fulfilling a parties percived needs imo ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you still miss my point, I can say.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'pls - restate original argument ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well has a GOOD marriage ever ended in divorce?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '<-- sober '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You don't believe in love.  That's all I really need to know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i believe so, Snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are of the opinion that marriage obeys a law of nature. Marriage is  human construct.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably not why most marriages end'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'oooh a great topic ! '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally hate the topic, Tzad'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I believe in love, I have experienced it. I am stating, though, that love is not sufficient or necessary for a successful partnership.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'have we gone down the road of the 7 year itch yet ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I believe people buy into tv and movies culture and makes people think that their marriage is unfullfillng when it actually is'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Thats why wives leave they husbands and do awful things and just fuck their kids over'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I'm not arguing that.  I am arguing that there is a place for the thing that you're trying to get rid of'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'There are contracts signed all the time between people that don't love each other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'OK 75% nurture 25% nature - nature says we breed n then leave the relationship - 7 years from go to woe '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I don't see how what you're suggesting is any different than those'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'pretty emotionaly loaded topic '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'this topic is so weak'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Not for him :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'maternal instinct is the highest priority in all higher order mammals imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'The times determine what is best for our children'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am not trying to get rid of love, I am taking care of the necessary things that must take place without clouding perception with hormonal output. You can do all the emoting you can stand once the contract is signed. But to go into partnership based solely on an ephemeral emotion is a recipe for disaster. Not 100 % guarenteed that it will self-distrust, but the groundwork for its distraction is certainly laid out.  '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I disagree if i read you right . imo there are a set state of developmental conditions that need to be met for development of an individual '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'agreed Anar - but .. hmm lang ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'love is a feeling you have for someone, there is no law of nature that says that that is a basis for reproduction. What drive us to reproduce is not love, love is the emotion that may exist after we have sated our mating frenzy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'try the differance between that n haiku ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'love is the cross between programmed endorphine rellease and an rational mind imo ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'both emotions are necessary to fulfill our humanity, but confusing them can have far-reaching repercussion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Part of the issue is the fac that you think love is ephermal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I'm sorry, I love long before my "mating frenzy" is sated'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you are porgammed for feeling X for a "type" rational mind vetoes the relationship / crush as viable ? lets not jump into Jungian stuff yet - defensive containment etc '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the "love" that most people use to jump into marriage is. The feeling want gets when one meets a partner is not love, it is, like it or not, lust.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I love my ex-wife, and I know I will never mate with her.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Love sucks, the person I'm in live with is someone who I didnt work with nor would I ever be able too in the future.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Love with not live with'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you love her now, you didn't love her when you "feel in love", you lusted after her (pardon the statement).'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I disagree'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'guys pare this back to essential elements if you wann nut this out imo - really loaded issue ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that is the natural sequence. You meet someone and you are overwhelmed by emotion and you call that emotion love, but love will come, if at all, after that emotion disappears.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what is love ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'baby dont hurt me'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz was not ment as trite'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's what I mean by ephemeral.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I wasn't "overwhelmed with an emotion I called love" when I first met her.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'greek division of love prevail ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well,  I don't know what you felt, and maybe "overwhelmed" was a bit over the top. But you felt something powerful at some point after you met her.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'eros agape etc ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did he feel like he needed a dump?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Leinei I dont want to pry, but this ex wife of yours seems jive too me. What made her not be with you to be with a man that might beat her and be in your bed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Not like she left me for him'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'women can be terribly divisive'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'We've been apart for nearly 6 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'you left her or was it mutual?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '100% mutual'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have seen time and time again - settling until you can trade up - beware !'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'we both decided that each of us had a better chance of being happy elsewhere.  And that's all we cared about -- each other's happiness'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky is agreeing with that Tzadkiel person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Never decided to give it another shot?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'interesting study done on USMC officers - bout trading up'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'proves hypothisis '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Oh man Tzad, military wives can be the worst whores ever in the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'it's really sadf'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm fem but I share ur taste in women mate :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'who me?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you like fem ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yep'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'so do I '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'thats cool, the bible doesnt say shit about lesbians lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei . o O ( I think Tzadkiel must've missed the conversation a couple of hours ago... )
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yet to have a real relationship but I know what I like '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'you will don't worry'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Fuck the bible - masoginist piece of shit !'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hell yeah'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'dammit deb ! this is why I stay in curse !'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz R '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's written like the shittiest grapevine of all time'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just logged on '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So...I heard that Obama was born in Kenya'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok catch me up on earlier / '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '? was ment to be '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that appears to be a double-bluff, snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I said gay man sex was gross and everyone blew the fuck up on me'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'how so Tiger?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'was that a fake cover up to cover up that he is an ex CIA agent?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's all up in the air because not all the facts are known because of deliberate obfuscation on the part of the relevent people and deparments'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'him? no, just to cover his origins and upbringings'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and his father'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as the saying goes: "Who's yer daddy?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I'm WWII Russia ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yes, it looks like the evidence points at Frank Marshall Davis Jnr is Obama's real daddy'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh I let it all hang out here - ask R - I'm her constant headache - better since I started to regulat my drinking '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'WWII russia IS Russia Tzan lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'WWII Russia is USSR'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'don't mobilize me - no chance of calling it off - comms suck :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You know what I mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So whats the point of covering up Obama's real father?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Vaki ! *hug tackle !'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'moved in serious communist party circles and CIA involvement'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'McCarthy rears it's head again.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're putting forward your man as a candidate, you really don't want that coming out'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what do you do? Make it about Kenya'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then put in a birther story to muddy it up'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can imagine total sellout to be where he is '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah, Obama might be the most MGS character president we have ever had.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'MGS?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Besides LBJ who was actually in Snake Eater'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they're using it all, if there were no truth and no PURPOSE to it, they'd just release his birth certificates and even DNA samples to get over it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LBJ ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'LBJ sounds like he was a toe-rag'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts - give in to one demand of the opposite party, and you give ground.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Metal Gear Solid, it's a video game. LBJ is Lindon B Johnson, the US president in 1964 I belive'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'wan decode the acronyms pls ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I just did kind of lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ty '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'LBJ was the one that "took over" after the Kennedy Conspiracy, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'shit yes I belive so'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz to be a navel gazer but some of the last banter was Tz related - wanna expand / '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I wish you would shut up'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Then who was president in Snake eater then? I cant remember now'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Who Starling?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I with yo momma would shut up when I get the strapon out '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Strap ons are okay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have a secret crush on Starling :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I think I am developing a crush on you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to know how screwed I am? 1/2 acre building plot, $350,000'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Would you ever be into a guy who has morals and values?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'median wage, $30,000pa'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'why would you ever want a guy ? defective units imo :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'We have our own built-in equipment'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Guys are good for heavy lifting.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Snook fem - damn mate really unfortunate name !?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Anyone who opposes the 2nd ammendment is a misinformed idiot'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yes it is a very unfortunate name'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Ran  -(choose ur own nicname here) I can lift heavy stuff to - or get a machine ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz Oz here 2nd amend ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'what kind of machine? Are you gonna vibrate that couch up the stairs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tickets for forklift n front end loader her e'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'No I am not butch '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mad as a squirrel in a turban, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Tzad The 2nd ammendment is a part of the US constitution which states we have the right to bear arms'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LOL yep - got a few ros loose in the top paddock .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'backed up in many states by local version there of'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Tzad you seem like a drunk party girl lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK, you have the right to be bent over by the government and butt-raped'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I carry   - is Totally illegal in Oz '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Conceal carry just got legalized in Wisconsin where I live. Best thing our shitty govener ever did'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I practice with a .22 mag but carry a .45 - ammo aint cheap '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Where are you from Tzad? Oz is a prison show on HBO I dont think you are from there'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'Oz = Aus'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Ahh okay Thank you Randy'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'do it mate - just run over the US army field mannual or get into Krav Maga - - but get into a range as often as you can - if you have bush where you live set one up '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Randy won 3mill in one dice roll, that man is the god dammed devil'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'we all live on dice rolls - any ex-D&D player will appreciate '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Oh yeah, I have a lv12 Cleric that I still play a few times a year'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oz isn't common slang for Australian ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Not to a dude from Wisconsin lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh I don't get out much - lol hmm - got brough up in a backwards place - went backwards and only now going forwards - thanks in part to the ppl here '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Oh clerics - lol was always an NPC with Dads mob - Drow clerics ain't bad to play though '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hey we are having free drinks at Snooky's pub'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Finger snooky for directions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'bottle of vodka in Tz's freezer - trying not to '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ugh what you look like - that thing from reality TV is really doing myy head in '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Im a dude'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah but what like ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'myspace.com/meccaofhardcore'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz only here - scripts - U know '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I dont speak Foster's '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'noone drinks Fosters in Oz - and describe now - never going there '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and FYI I'm mad as a cut snake '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Why are you mad? Let's "debate" this.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol ok ground rules are no swearing in goss and no creation of immaginary constructs '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'someone wanna warn this dude ? seems nice ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What are you talking about, I do not understand >_<'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what are the curse rules in deb R ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'anything goes in the Debate channel'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I drink too much - can be a lil off kilter '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Scurv pulled me up on it the other day n I'm working on it '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'guys ? help ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What do you need baby?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I may not be the same each time you chat with me '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Thats okay my ex BM is like that too, hates me one day indifferent the next and wants to fuck the day after that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok drinking now - vodka n homemade lemonade chaser :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'mmm lemonade'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I drink George Killian's Irish Red'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'handcrushed lemons - lisbon lemons - damn lotta sugar there '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what basic type ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'That'll keep you up. A hyper drunk is a good drunk'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '80  proff ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Craig construct ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Tzad are you fucking hammered allready? It looks like you are mischanning ewverything'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no - these already deb topics - soz I don't do protocol well - a lil over it - shoot straight from the hip - thats me '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my keyboard sticks and for various reasons I can't spell FYI'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What do you think about the Carbon Tax law being enforced in Aus?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they didn't get on the gravy train early - gov- and we are never gonna get this boom again - and we are not spending the proceeds on training - meek gov finally trying to claw back revinue on a booming industry - ie mining - reduces our comparative advantage - see mining winding ddown if it gets thru  and we'll be left with big holees in the ground and nothing else '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but the libs will get the next fed election ? maybe repealed but the core issues will not change imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh Vaki n Scurv are the functional Ozzies here - they know thier stuff when they say they know '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'personally - working on a few tickets to get out there n get paid before it all goes to shit '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to where?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'abortion IS murder'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just a few issues in the wayy - need to be certafied as a ..... decent worker b4 that - just getting machine time on the side thru a mate '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where would you go?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Tiggy - unpack that ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Australia is a terrible country for censorship'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mining industry - east 6 fig salary - can already opperate 50% of the machines '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and they have a bitch ass prime minister, she is a tru cunt'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you say you're leaving oz - where would you go?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'frontend laoder I'm a gun !'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol just need to keep it together ... hmm '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'need to create a balance between ? IDK any ideas ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't be on any of this - IDK ? mentor don't want me to go '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to find an Island, Tzad'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'speeding toward a brick wal - already fucked my pilots ticket . I think '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'can't pass security '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'serfs don't get to fly'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'fuck it perhaps I'll be the new world ordinance Martin Bryant - IDK'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'suggestions ? get sane ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'helps'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a nurse said I have been like this so long that I have rewired my head '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to get off the drugs and onto some nutrition'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i don't envy anyone trying to deal with head problems in a world that's so full of shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Smoke weed, and everything will be just fine...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I eat very well - I Was a competition swimmer - the drugs - idk if they are doing me help or harm but I can't  relapse now - I'm too wel armed - if I get done it is my last stand - at least I'm aiming for a nice life I suppose but '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're aiming for a fulfilling life, then you're probably headed in the right direction'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I could drink less - Scurv gave me the heads up on it - TY mate-'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no I'm not aiming for breeding'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm aiming for my mentor to teach me how to walk in anothers dreams '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I can pull the pin on my life  now and get the world record for a spreekill or I can keep earning and fix a social prob in Oz by - meh - ok I have 2 pathes - one aint getting rsty by  waiting for another - my mentor will teach me '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'save your violence for when it's warrented'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a random shooting spree is about the highest definition of "wack" there is'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yes Tiggy - am no comming into my own with personal violence and war - dad  showed mr a movie called " Red Dawn" years ago - I will be better than that unless mentor decides not to teach me- in which case I'll waster his pet race - I promise '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'spree kill in old form involves 30ish tally at best - I will gaurantee thousands and more to follow '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are foolish to talk about such things'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mate - I AM FOOLISH'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh I have had my sanity traded for ? perhaps trained ? - plan B has been my only concrete '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'soon be time for me to go fill up with $8.50/gallon fuel and head to the pool'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mentor will either train me or will regret not training me '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you swim ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't everyone?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I grew up in the middle of Oz .. lol no nott everyone swims atuo'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should go learn'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah - nice I swam in states and national until recently '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I can only swim in water... and maybe syrup.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'meh - gimme deep anything n I'll swim - '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what is the alternative ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'strung up in a doorway ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Swimming in states... dunno how that is done tho.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'deep conc. hydrochloric acid?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given that HCl is a given in any pool that regulates bacteria .. interesting ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, all i can say is at least they've stopped going on about marriage :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'gotta an opinion on same sex mariage Tiggy? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'fancy the hell outta Vixxy :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'need to get my head straight b4 that tho '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ooh - is there a way to tell what chann someone is listening to ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my opinion is that governments should stay the hell out of the whole marriage debate, rename all of their marriage literature something else to align it under some form of legal civil partnership'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a legal contract should be between two consenting adults'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything else should be down to the conscience of the marriagee and the marriager'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a particular priest won't marry a gay couple because of his religious beliefs, they should respect that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if an entire religion won't marry a gay couple because of it's religious beliefs, people should respect that too'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's about as complete and concise as I can make it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why should bigots be respected?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why should bigots be respected?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why should they be respected any less than antibigots?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bigotry isn't relevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm afraid that my present narrcisist state provides me with projection potential that I would for a relationship on now that , working through my being taught would disappate and therefore the infatuation ? idk if that reas well '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok that don't read well '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'you get my drift ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I guess that I don't see a need to force people into accepting what society says is 'ok' in their private lives, as long as they aren't allowed to force it on the unwilling ... i.e. if church A doesn't want to marry gay people/divorced people/people who are cohabiting before marriage, why should they? but the government should be totally neutral.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Tofting's comments themselves imply him/herself is a bigot'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much what I said, Majic'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, I know, nuts, was replying to others.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'all i mean is why should i respect the views of a religion that is homophobic?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you were translating my thoughts into English, you mean :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'why should you? you don't have to. you're free to shun that religion and any practitioners thereof.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody is making you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the second you put in laws because of it....'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'are you saying it is fine to be homophobic?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is legally requiring churches to marry gay people against their beliefs any different to having laws requiring black people to use a different bathroom to white?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'government should keep its hands off marriage, and not recognise marriage at all, only civil unions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people are entitled to their opinions, Tofting'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then we wouldn't be having this sort of stupid problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm saying that that sort of thing is not what the government would police.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I used to think lesbianism was un natural but I know know that it has several points  for natural evidence - still having never been in a healthy relationship and being what I am - jury out / ?  not sure about attaching to someone like that ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods sonshi, that was tigernuts suggestion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'no doubt. i can be racist if i want too. that doesnt make it ok'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'morally ok and legally ok are not the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It is fine to be homophobic just as it is okay to be rasict. I'm nither but people need to get over it when other people are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, I just got in'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there are a lot of things that I'm not morally okay with that I still don't want to make laws against.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're considerring moral codes, then you have to by definition be descriminatory'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well not BE, but be open to the possibility of'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm Pro white but not anti black ..etc - I believe I can be  pro anything and be objective about reality ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'am i discriminatory if i dislike rapists ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in one sense, yes, Tofting, you are'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ergo - I can be pro anything and anti what I consider objectively wrong ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'every time you choosen one flavour of drink over another you're being descriminatory'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'then anyone should be able to do anything to anyone without reproach?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that doesn't follow.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in this instance rape is against consent and is objectively wrong ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think there's anyone suggesting rape isn't wrong, both morally wrong, and (in most jurisdictions) legally wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there are places that I won't buy from because I disagree with their political attitudes and where they make political donations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all a big psy-op on language. People see discriminatory as instantly bad/klaxon/warning noises'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that doesn't mean that I think it should be illegal for thme to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I like dark hair - subjectively descriminatory - objectively - her hair color I'm not going to judge you beyond subjective bias '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'for pete's sake, both of you, it's dIscriminate. not E! :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'hating blacks and gays for no other reason than they are black or gay is noy right to me. when people talk of discrimiation this is what they are talking about not which shampoo ill buy today'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not Pete, and i'm not interested in his sake'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because people are dumb, Tofting'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in contrast - I like older women - another likes underage girls - objectively underage of consent and ergo I am in disapproval'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"discrimination" and "<insert work here>ism" are now just political tools'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'In older times practicing racisim was favorable and a way for your particualar tribe to flourish'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just another thing for control freaks to batter people over the head with'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'meh - economic rational now rules - the rest is dross imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't you mean economic irrational rules now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'illegal discrimination consists typically of bias against some feature which an individual has little or no control over, with a few exceptions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '"fam friendly" networks going after the pink dollar under a shelf are a prime example '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illegal discrimination is the problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'll give you a curly example '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as an employer in central Oz I would not employ an aboriginal and this is the reason why '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the individual cannot refuse to share with family - even extended family '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'share what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'this then involves the employees disposable income - to the point of diet - '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all employment antidiscrimination laws do is encourage companies to lie'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'your position sounds like it would be both illegal and immoral... There are alternative ways to go about it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why anti-discrimination laws should apply to government dealings only'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'given the inherent genrational welfare dependancy - any working member of the family is not able to dispose of thier income to sustain thier employment status - they suffer and so to does the employer '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ergo I advise any employer Not to employ a Oz black '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can require them to put enough of their income towards certain things... if they refuse, you can refuse to hire them'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'employers don't have the right to dictate to their employees how they spend their wages'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's nuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'in the US what is that legislation called Sonshi ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'screw questioning employing them, i wouldn't let myself be EMPLOYED by someone who wanted that level of control over me'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure they can. Ask airline stewardesses what happens if they show up with crappy footwear...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an at-work dresscode'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not an at-home lifestyle choice'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no idea, I'm not involved in hiring...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yet do that in central Oz and they play the race card '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I think what Sonshi is meaning is require them to put enough of their income in so that they show up at work on time (transportation), clothed, and fed enough to enable them to productively work.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '" poor bugger me - no sugur for me tea"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'this doesn't require actual inspecting of their bankbooks but rather observing them when they show up and seeing if they're unable to work.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've been involved in the process, though not making the decisions, and frequently see things that some would construe as discrimination on grounds of ability, age, gender, race, background'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if they can show up and do their job correctly, there's no problem. You can require them, at least by my moral code, to take steps to do so...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'simple fact is people don't hire solely on the basis of people's ability to do a job'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they never have, they never should, and it's absurd to expect them to'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, it's hard to catch them, but having the laws at least means you can get the worst offenders'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like for botting!'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I was about to say the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'That's how it is with anything though, you catch the worst, or more likely/often, the dumbest offenders'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'or sometimes, the ones with the most visibility, to make a public example.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'prob is where I lived is no mining activity so one of the main sources of income is welfare spending - ( we are talking towns of 1k pop where no black works and are welfare dependant)  rock the boat and loose that $ ? no '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Possibly, although those usually seem to be classifiable among the 'dumbest' category, for doing blatantly illegal shit when they knew or should have known they would be under scrutiny.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'their argument is this " It's my land and I am entitled to this" '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Or people who just get greedy.  E.g. Bernie Madoff, who in their right mind honestly believes they can get away with that kind of Ponzi scheme?  The mind boggles.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Starling'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'He did'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'John Corzine'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bob Diamond'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I mean 'get away with it' as in 'never be caught''
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mitt Romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Barack Obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he might have figured he had decades of high living before getting caught...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No way I'd go to prison for that, I'd have a stash of emergency drugs which I'd use for a final (and ultimately lethal) hurrah.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, I guess I should note that among the practical reasons for anti-discriminatory work laws is so that you don't have some disliked minority failing to get jobs and ending up living on welfare and crime and getting more hated, eventually descending into violence, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can understand and appreciate the practical reasons for it, i was merely pointing out the flaws, and how the term has been completely destroyed in people's understanding of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I really don't like the disparate impact rulings.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what it is, but sounds daft'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... it does exclude legit business reasons, so it's not that bad...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's nice to have such laws when you are part of a minority. I am white, so I am in a minority in the world, so this is nice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can, for instance, run a pig farm and not hire any muslim pig farmers (as if they'd want to)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz - non functional - ethanol an sleepers - diss last transmittions pls  - fun only now '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Why would you care which made up entity your workers pray to on their free time?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz official but mentor insistance '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'of course, but if you require (for example) a pre-algebra test for your carpentry business, you'll probably end up with some racial differences in the results, and the burden would be upon you to show that these skills are necessary :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I'm no lawyer, but I would hope the courts would be sensible in applying these things...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'in some cases they have been and in some cases not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and the lawsuit costs money just to defend yourself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in cases which are pretty cut and dried, you could probably defend yourself...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'that maybe the case in the US but in Oz  the blacks have had to do function to  gain an income and if mining ends up on thier land the royalty cheques mean they are paid over and above working citizens - hance a disparity forms'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you run a small business, the distribution of your employees can't be statistically significant anyway... and if you're a larger business, such cases probably wouldn't cost that much to defend as a percentage of your profits, so long as you have a good case'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz can't sustain this '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, it's better in the long run for a country not to depend too much on natural resource wealth anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'australia has been lucky in the resource "lottery", but this comes at the expense of a more balanced economy. Not as bad as the small oil-rich mideast states, of course...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 're investing in skill through resource benifit- is not something Oz has done imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given how high wages are in australia, they're at a pretty high risk for a rude awakening if china implodes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they should be taking the resource wealth and shovelling it into funds for a rainy day like in norway, instead of bloating wages'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'really they could be higher (wages) so many ppl are doing cash jobs on former  skills out prob is the leeches soft school/trade/ tickets are a current - mining only needs to sign off on cometency  - sudddenly urt pID AS A SPARKY - ONLY ON THIS SITE // '
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LOOK i RELAAY STRETCHED MYSELG - DISREGAURD FURTHER TRANSMITIONS'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'upsetting people, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, one of france's richest people has applied to become Belgian'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently Sweden wants to become a cashless society'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hasn't anyone bothered telling them that's a really fucking bad idea?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've gone the opposite, try to use cash for everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'except for women.  because that's illegal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'well, depending on where you live...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only in some jurisdictions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way, they're absolutely mental'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they need help'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might as well be blindly selling their souls to the devil'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they try to phase out cash here, we'll have no option than to go back to barter'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or 5 finger discount'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'or credit cards'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'won't use em'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Cyber-currency, RFID, mark of the beast, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"without which no man may buy or sell"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you should be ideollogically opposed just at a free market level'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you buy with a credit card, the card company benefits financially - directly'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the whole point of credit was predatory lending, anyways'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'profit off the ignorant'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'RFIDs are easy to spoof anyways.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only that, but they then have a record of your buying habits, which they share with government agencies and other companies'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Interesting and comforting, but irrelevent, Cizra'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'privacy considerations aside, why do I care that the card company benefits, if it gives me no drawback'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'between direct deposit and online billpay and credit cards, there's really no reason to have cash.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because you aren't given a choice, abe'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure I am'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a and b want to have a transaction, they should have a method of conducting that without c involved'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Other than the fact, Hanslanda, that your worth is a number in cyberspace that someone can hit *delete* on to effectively cripple you'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I do have a method of conducting that without c'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'checks.  Still part of the cashless society.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not if they do away with all except cybercurrency'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'why should I choose to keep c out, if it gives me an advantage of convenience'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I mean me, today, not some swedish future'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't care, that's your business'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm asking why you think I should care'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should you care if someone is going around putting a bullet in the head of your family?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'apparently Sweden's on the forefront of everything.  I guess this means that if the world goes to shit, we can just blame Sweden.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You roll on the floor, laughing hysterically.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'how exactly are they doing something bad to my family, when it costs me nothing'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what if they restricted all of your internet access so you could only access one site, or removed all the tv channels except one that you didn't want?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not on the forefront, but basically a defenseless rat-experiment society'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what if you could only buy food from one store'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it wasn't food you liked'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, why the what ifs...what is the actual downside to me today'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'these Democrats sure are weird.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, down sides to you are that it costs you more, means you get bombarded with crap you probably don't want'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an invasion of your privacy which you don't care about'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because you don't care about it, why should the rest of us be subjected to it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it doesn't cost me more'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're not subjected to anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you just stated that you pay cash'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do now, but if they get rid of cash'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so what are you subjected to while paying cash?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'robbery'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this whole thing was about doing away with cash'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'again, you're talking about hypothetical futures, not reality today'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm asking solely about today'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well what about it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why use cash when you can use cash cards?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you said that I should care, because the CC company benefits directly...I asked why I should care about that (with privacy concerns not part of it)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should care if they move to remove cash entirely'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but they're not, so I needn't care about that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're not... yet'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'so you're agreeing that I don't need to worry about it, here in the US in my lifetimes...kthx'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, depends how old you are'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's always going to be demand for cash-like instruments like cashcards. And as long as there's that demand, it's not going away.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could be 10-20yrs away'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'removing cash means you pay via online transaction, whether that be via check, credit/debit card, or direct deposits/debits (online billpay).'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll see it start by not being able to do certain things without a credit card'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Supply isn't created to meet demand'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such as transport tickets, and government taxes/bills'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you'll see big shops refuse cash'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you've got a sort of "progress" meter there'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The end game is to use your RFID (Mark of the Beast) to pay for all transactions'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It makes it easier to monitor people, and easier to deal with dissenters'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Think "Minority Report" to get an idea'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hey, I'm just waiting for the subdermal wallet so I never forget mine'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know the score, they're doing it with these black box tracking things for cars'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're bringing them in under the guise of "this will help make your insurance cheaper"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'This has less to do with actual monetary systems, and more to do with controlling people in general'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then it'll be "this is required for insurance"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only in crappy backward societies... others will simply use cardcard like instruments in place of cash, where desired.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Minority Report is fully operational now.  Not just parts of it, the whole entire thing (even the role of the psychics).'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hey, I'm just waiting for the adjustment bureau :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, the psychics they're employing are Mr Biden's dead father'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'sweet, there's no more premeditated crime?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Well, the Department of War is already the Defense Department'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the FDA ensures you stay poisoned'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'all the alphabet soup does the opposite of its name'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'sounds like 1984'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we have always been at war with eastasia'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wish they'd go thermonuclear and just get it over with'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, the psi is the internet.  Any database on any network.  Government doesn't have to break in, they've already got the keys.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then that's Person of Interest, not Minority Report :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wish crazy people don't keep wanting to take the rest of us down with them...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's worse than that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't want to take us all down, cuz they could'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't get that choice, Sonshi, because the crazies are in charge of the asylum'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Person of Interest has the whole pre-crime thing, too?'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes hans'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi coughs loudly.
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They want to take most of us down, then create an RFIDed slave society'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's the whole point of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"The Machine"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he built an AI computer network that monitors all computer networks and predicts crime'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All those TV shows and shit are predictive programming to get the sheep ready to accept'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's the point of Minority Report, too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'minority report is about people having visions about crimes in the future, not about monitoring communications and movement to determine patterns which fuzzy logic say can potentially be threats'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not even in the same plane, other than "predict stuff"'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently USA's mortgage market is so badly fucked up that people's houses who have been paid off for 10 years are being 'stolen' by banks/others whom have been sold derivatives and/or debt packages supposedly containing reference to the debt'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'citation needed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's wrong, no need for a citation.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'difference between the market being fucked up and somebody having bad records...'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'of course, there was an episode of Leverage on that very thing...creditor company going after homes, hoping that xx% of people wouldn't contest the charge'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that said, there have been mistakes that did result in someone with a paid-for house with no mortgage having their house repossessed.  It went all the way to court before the house was returned.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://abcnews.go.com/Business/bank-america-sued-foreclosing-wrong-homes/story?id=9637897'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for a long while, it was actually more economically sensible to just not pay your mortgage.  Nobody was going to kick you out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are dozens of stories like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all began with the removal of glass-steagall'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=500096e56b0d8362d91e93cf105309c3'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=500096e56b0d8362d91e93cf105309c3'
T3/r7/2012-09-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'anyone here have an actual good reason for voting for Romney?'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'under him my taxes would drop by around 27k per year and i wont vote for him'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ref: snooky, answer: yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'joy, Rockefellers preside over creation of global journalist group to "Advance reporting on religion"'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's just what we all need'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Iraqi Vice President sentenced to death'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'France to fun and arm al-qaeda in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sounds a good reason to invade France, to tell them to stop it'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the currency markets, god is at $1730, silver is at $33.57'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you know that al-qaida leaders usually have at least 2 lives?'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'How do they retrieve the corpses?'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a special Pentagon Morgue?'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A new study has found that people who received a flu shot before the outbreak of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic were more likely to catch the swine flu virus, a startling discovery given the fact that experts have blamed the pharmaceutical industry for deliberately engineering the pandemic to make huge profits from vaccines.'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now that's a proper headline'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"president of Italy's supreme court to refer 9/11 crimes to international criminal court"'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nw'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Rhode Island citizen gets called by the cops after buying a couple of boxes of ammo from his local gun store'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Chicago teachers go on strike, but that's ok, Rahm Emanuel's brood go to an elite private school'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'greedy fuckers, those teachers'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chisato: 'just wait till chicago become a repeat of wisconsin'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chisato: 'long protest with little results'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'strikes here in the UK really do the strikers no good, so they just use the threat of them instead'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they -actually- strike, people's support goes down'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chisato: 'same here in the u.s. but people never think that far ahead'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Germany to sell submarines to Egypt'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran is set to unveil a domestically produced multi-platform cruise missile'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Martini & Tyebald: 'if you don't follow through with an actual strike periodically, the threat of one has no power either.'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good on 'em, I say'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Moroccan immigrant was offered $1000 a month if he agreed to suicide bomb the U.S capitol'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'offered by the FBI'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'California state is trying to pass legislature to make criticism of Israel or its policies illegal on campus and in schools'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'difficult to tell which religion has more psychotic freaks, Judaism, Islam, or Christianity'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The federal governments plan to destroy all data from its long-gun registry is unconstitutional, a judge has ruled, (Quebec)'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because they're French, and a bit of the stupid side'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'are you making controversial statements until you get a response?'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nowt contraversial about that'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'how big the boiler should be to hold a thermo.. nuclear.. blast inside so it could be turned into a nice steady steam engine?'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends on the size of the warhead'
T3/r7/2012-09-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'big!'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'whats the haps ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Obama is an Ex-CIA agent, that's whats up... he speaks farsi too'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no way !'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the right character assasination ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Right .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'feeds into the Obama O sama BS imo .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'when is the US fed election ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'n what are the numbers so far ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'the left and right do not really exist. The birther crap was to throw people off the the real truth about Obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I think Obama speaks indonesian - or Malay - nearly the same ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'speaking more than one language is very un-american'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'what do you call someone that speaks more than 2 langs - mulitlingual - what do you call someone who is fluent in 2 - bilingual - what do you call someone that only has 1 lang - Australian or American :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and there is no more left and right. the left moved to the center and the right moved to a lunatic asylum'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they have both moved to the centre because business calls the shots imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'economic rationalism '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the right in Oz don't have the NRA or Xtians that are worth salt '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'only fringe right I see in America ? - am I wrong ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Both parties are a danger to the second Ammendment now:('
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well, WI legalized conceal carry! Shitty Gov'na walker ftw'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'unpack that one Snook ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Wisconsin'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Are you hammered tonight Tzad? lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Eh? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'um more detail required to understand ur last transmittion pls'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's kick ass how our crappy govener in Wisconsin still managed to make it legal to get a permit to carry a concealed firearm.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lolol. people are concerned about the second :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what about first? or fourth?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's the only one left at this point:('
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if guns are outlawed - onlw outlaws will carry guns '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and cops }:>'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's the one that will get the other ones back to if things keep going this way'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'is highly illegal here to carry but I do - I value my personal saftey over some law '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: ''mericans worry about the weirdest shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'alas, bringing a gun to a tank fight doesn't do as much as it did when the second was written'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sp? again ! dammit '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Cops are doing pretty shitty with their firearms these days Abe...look at NYC'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'get katanas. you can cut through a tank with one'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You grin evilly at him.
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'a DU round - tank ? maybe Abe - btw  - glaad we are sorted - '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And all I gotta say about tanks Abe, GORRILA WARFARE...Iraq 'Nam ect '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, good old gorilla warfare'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods quietly to himself.  What a wacko.
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'They have tanks is a pretty crappy excuse not to fight tyranny'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol my Fav movie - Red Dawn :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, been watching too much red dawn :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Hugs Abe :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we'll see how the remake is'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'sux imo ... lefties involved .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's lame they changed it from being the Chinese to being Korea'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'N Korea will be anexxed by China b4 long imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Like Korea could invade the US...not saying China could either but it's more plausible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the sword is the dollar imo - go from there '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'anyways about they have tanks as a reason not to fight for our rights...what makes you feel that way Abe aside from tanks?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'N Korea is like the black market of China atm imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ok path from recall ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Nothing Abe? I guess tanks are just Scawwy to you??'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'snooky: what makes you feel that I feel that way about anything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I dunno you said that guns won't do that much against tanks anyways...I guess that could mean alot of things. Just wanted to hear your thoughts I guess.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'guns WON'T do that much against tanks. I state the truth.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'DU is the new tank buster- not sure it is personel weap tho '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'That's pretty generalized statement, their are anti tank rifles which are guns..'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'not across the subject mate - love the pub tho - R U Oz ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, and those are owned by the guys in WI with the conceal carry permits?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay see now we are getting somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yes personel weapons and conceal carry weapons wont do anything to a tank...but people can.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the OZ military bleeds ordinance like a collandir - if they have it - so can I '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people can...yeah, that worked well in tiennenmen ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I'm talking about Stalingrad and North Africa Abe'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'totally dif situatio n imo mate '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ur talking bout WWII ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Iraq too'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'and countless other situations...not all were victorious. But I have faith in the American people to just do it better.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, for US vs iraq, both sides had tanks...for the current middle-east, both sides are well-funded'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ahh, but both sides are the american people'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'the side that fights for tyranny CANNOT be American Abe.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'only those who fight against'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'tyranny is just a word'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I thought in the Iraq situation the Abrams tanks  were more than a match for the old T series soviet tanks and the AH-64 killed more tanks than  the tanks did - imo tanks are dead with air suport / '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And this is a hypothetical bullshit anyways but...who says the ENTIRE Military would side with the government anyways?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's pretty easy...there won't be another side'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'First Chance Texas gets to be it's own country again it's gonna do it:P'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'are you arguing mass insubordination ? not going to happen - we send our best and dumbest into conflicts imo - they need to think to rebel '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yeah, you keep thinking that :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'local conflicts are just isolated insurgents, easy enough to quell'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Snook - mate think b4 U type - I'm the dumbest here - I want no competition ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well allright, I hope you enjoy your new Imperial Overlords Abe, I sure won't lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you won't enjoy 'em, you'll still be under 'em ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'great - al laa Red Dawn I'll have a grenade waiting for me :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I'll be dead before I'm under anyone though...cept Lasher'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're not dead yet'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Right because I still have my freedom'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'riiight'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I am ? - change is the stability of the universe - as one Me dies another is born ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'confront me in a dark alley and atm I'll just shoot you - another 6 months of Krav and you'll be an unhappy paraplegic with neural damage :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I believe in Karma and have no prob being an intrument of it '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, guys that think they're prepared and tough are so cute'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'aww I always though U were cute anyway Abe :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The point of any martial art is not to injure, but to extricate.  If you have to injure your opponent that is because you failed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'do you practice in front of the mirror like deniro in taxi driver, too?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'are you talkin' to me?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Hey Vaki - I thought roughly the same - Krav is bloody awesome though '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no limits - just get the job done '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No limits? Lol, that is a pretty shitty way to teach a martial art.  Martial art is all about limits.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no is about getting the job done ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is about discipline and focus'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I want to survive and harm '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Soo...are Kung-Fu and Martial Arts the same or is Kung-Fu "a" Martial Art?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It's the second part of that which is just all wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'kung fu is a martial art'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Kung fu is the generic name for multiple styles of Shaolin-inspired martial arts based in China'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'harm ? I want to remove opposition - we do that by harm ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay, well Valkieh some martial arts are just about killin a motherfucker'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no they're not'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no not kill - can't intterogate a corpse '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hold on though, I'm using that term loosley'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No, you do that by incapacitating (need not injure) and leave - if you have to injure the other person to survive, do so, but know that by reaching that point you have already failed'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Military unarmed combat is often about killing, but that is not a martial art.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Just about to ask that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Pro Wrestling is a martial art too ya know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'if someone tries to harm me - I am instant justice  - lol once I get good - the opponent has no rights having given them up on attack - ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You are instant justice? What makes you think you are worthy to be a judge, jury and executioner of sentence in a situation in which you have imperfect knowledge?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I'll be watching the newsreel where you got your ass kicked in the alley :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'He stayed in a holiday inn express last week Valkieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The ones whose instinct is not to land one decent blow to wind and then flee are the ones who get 2x4'ed by the guy's friend in the shadows and wind up naked in a ditch somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I wil always have imperfect knowledge - that someone attacks me is justification to take control the situation using deadly force ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Only if it is required to stay safe.  And if you need to kill to stay safe, you have failed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah, pull a partick Zimmerman on they asses!'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky clears his throat loudly and looks around.
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'why leave a live enemy if you can do it legally ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'No one has the right to take another person's life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Some drunk takes a swing because you look like the exwife who stole his kid and you shoot him...(not justifying, he's still a douche, but not a douche who deserves a 12 guage to the face)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they lost a fight and accidentally dies at the hands of a 65-70 kg fem - wanna ride out the possy on those odds ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'gauge*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Having popular support does not make you just'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'thats exactly it - I am at risk carrying a revolver atm - Krv means eventually I wont need to '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'How about you learn to avoid dangerous situations? Sure, learn the martial art, but if you are learning it to use offensively you should not have the opportunity imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'NO if they attach you they are fair game imo - not using a gun to kill them just reduces legal exposure imo '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is a personal improvement and defensive skill, with the potential to be used in ways that make it a terrible thing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually it would be more legal exposure...'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If they attack you, and your ONLY option to stay safe is to kill, sure, go ahead.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'at least with a gun it was a quick instinctual thing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'to beat someone up to the point of death takes much more work'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But here's a thought? Hit the guy in the nuts or solar plexus, or land a palm between the eyes to daze or reverse a wrist grab and get a decent knife hand into the exposed underarm.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Then when he is bent over, bolt, and call the cops.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but believing that krav will get you there is ignorant and your belief in what it's giving you will get you killed'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I have no ticket for firearms - lol Oz they actually regulate the sale of firearms to .... what ever I am - and I am enroled under false details at Krav - to the naked eye I'm some weird chick that loves the hippy movement '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, "loves the hippie movement" and "krav maga" are pretty mutually exclusive'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Whatever you are?  Fucking crazy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I've been doing shotokan karate for about 7 years now, and the best lesson to learn is "on the day, anyone can win" - I won sparring with masters of 20 years my first year, and got my arse handed to me by newbies only recently.  All training does is change the odds.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So to go in with the idea that you are impervious to harm because you know a few moves...then someone gets a lucky shot in and knifes you while you are wondering which stance is best between dumpsters.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'What does a shotgun do to those odds?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I could be called a hippy given how I project - is how I got out - but I am not - and I'm under no illusions about Krav - someone dislocated my thumb today in training but they are not letting up on me - I'm the onlt fem in the basic class and they really throw me roung - I turned up in my customized armor and they took that as free for all :D got dealt '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Guns are, as they ever were, the great equalizers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Forget the karate.  Glock 40 caliber'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Or a queen sized bed'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That's the whole point Starling - I never did karate to learn to hit someone.  I do it for the discipline, and because I enjoy it'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'shotgun doesn't do much to those odds, as it's not very handy when you're in the situation'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I practice the fine art of Pro Wrestling'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Why isn't it useful?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you showed up to a beginners martial arts class in armor?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I don't carry a gun, I have never had the need to use karate outside the dojo (aside from the occasional pub), and I have never been assaulted.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '(again, aside from the occasional pub)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah - but close quarters - think again - noone is fast enough to counter - and I have "horse " my revolver anyaway - just want to be able to leave it at home n go to raves etc where you get searched n still be safe '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Hm, it might be useful in a bar - no firearms allowed in such establishments'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No-one is fast enough to counter - that includes you'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Not my bar:P'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's not that it's not useful, it's that it's not handy'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I don't know, a 12 gauge shotgun will put the hurt on somebody quick'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not when it's not there, it won't'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no we do drills with a trigger light on the dummy gun - everyoone in the basic class can beat it when in arms reach '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Well, that's why you carry it on you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Probably have to be a sawed-off, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but you're lying if you state that you do'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ergo, it is NOT handy'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'It is if you're a criminal ;)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nope, not even criminals'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So the guy is going to set himself up with the weapon directly in front of you, and you are going to assume he hasn't already started pulling the trigger before you see said gun?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Depends on the situation, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's the issue, you don't control the situation'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'imo best case is planned aggression - when someone gets the drop on you then you are against the odds UNTIL within arms reach imo - and training atm '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The gun is more likely to be behind you (yes you will train for that as well, but take it with a bit of salt) - if he is smart, he jabs it in so you know it's there, then removes it from your back so you are never quite sure where it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'They do have a lot of close-range punch, and if you're in a jurisdiction that heavily regulates handguns but not sporting guns, a sawed-off might be a viable alternative if you absolutely must hold up that convenience store.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Arguably, you don't 'control' the situation regardless of what weapon you're using'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is so freaking easy (in Au at least, which I know Tz is) to avoid firearm confrontations, and to leave confrontations entirely.  The vast, VAST majority of crime in this country is rival gangs (usually bikers) and domestic bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'hey now, let's not drag bikers into it :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The person shooting you is either the Comanchero you pissed off last week, or your exwife/husband.  Dark alleys and such are far less likely'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Shrug, we've had some armed robberies lately.  Right in my home town, which almost never experiences serious crime.  I guess the heroin problem out in the county is getting pretty bad.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'HA - the only true Oz bikers '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lol - I ride a motorbike as well, but there is a world of difference between 'guy who rides a motorbike' and 'a biker''
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'n Ulyesseys - but they are softies :D  - still HA !'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '- lol ewww sp? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they have angels in oz, or a different HA?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Biker stereotypes are merely compensating.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'same - n Nomads - they R the real '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'We have Hells angels here, but iirc they were excommunicated by the HA head office for being a bunch of law abiding pussies'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Nomads are the real'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Here, it's all about Comancheros, Bandidos, and Rebels'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But it has become quite clear nobody gives a shit about most of it, they are just glorified gun/drug runners, the rivalry is just competing for money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'localised BS - thats the BS you were on about - while they fight each other Nomads run the transport industry bar mining and farm out the speed manufact. .... imo limited tho it is '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And the 'no free association' laws have put a stop to most of the problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Nomads run the transport industry?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Why else would anybody kill the other gang?  That set-tripping loyalty shit ended by the end of the 1980's'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Starling, here it was ALL about personal vendettas and loyalty a fair bit later, perhaps right up to 2000.  Then the SE asian gangs moved in, primarily vietnames here in Sydney, and everything became about the money'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no - and there is no loyalty - so much gang jumping now and Vaki you'd be suprised - but purely anecdotal on transport '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The best part of it is the survivors have all sold out to a TV station to make a series on back when it was all personal honour.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They are now all chummy on set, is is fucking hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'keep ur old mates - stugg the rest - the only loyals are the Oz army etc - love white n country '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'stuff*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Racism isn't cool, take that shit and gtfo'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'everyone is a little rasict'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mate as much as I love anime etc - single minded individuals are the best trusted becuase they are hamstrung by thier beliefs and I factor into that - how you think I get ammo ? I LOVE my white but I love other cultures as well '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That makes no sense...at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'racists are single minded ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'closed minded, perhaps?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they think I am like minded ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'tbh I do really love most things white '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure it makes sense...tzad gets ammo by watching anime with groups of black people'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'they trust me because I exhibit thier values '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I am trusted '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol no no - CANNOT be caught watching anime !'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'OOOOHHHH - you just hang around racists and act racist, it isn't as if you're racist or anything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I love this new culture of overly political correctness'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Racism in some cultures and countries is part of how people fucking survive.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Snook I am Pro white - not anti anything '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'didnt say anything like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'People survive on racism? Shit, and I've been eating food and whatnot - boy was I wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'I'm not going to breed with anyone but a white but I love so many things about other cultures that some of my mates just wouldn't understand because they are (as Vaki said) closed minded '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's such a slipperey slope with some people that I can't even really say any more with out someone feigning outrage'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And I too love being white'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And by white I mean Jewish Canadian'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'D I'm not jewish but I've studied the Kabbalah for a while '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You have the coolest heritage...Christian Jewish Canadian whose parents died in the holocaust? Did I miss anything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What happens if you dont believe in the Kabbalah?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You get KABBALISHED!'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'something my neonazi mates would not understand - but they give me thier limited form of loyalty '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I doubt you're a neo-Nazi'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no I'm not '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'some of the art from that culture is pure Pro white without being anti anything though '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Just for refference...If one were to be openley Neo Nazi would that be nukable?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: '>_>'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You can claim to be whatever you want to be, acting on those claims is what would lead to nuking - i.e. overt racism on public channels'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think you just get nochanned or fakechanned'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'yeah racism is uncool - R schooled me well '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If I can't hear you, might as well be nuked :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Fakechanned? Is that like a shadowban?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah...I know about that >_<'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lemme find an example of pro white no anti culture one of my fav songs - victory day '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pro-one race where you are not equally pro other races is just as racist as anti-other races...fyi'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Simple +1 -1 argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Cancel Cinco De Mayo you guys'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's racist'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yeah, have to switch from 4 to 6'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So we should just be one big nuetral world huh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'found it ! took a while - post it here or music chann ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIbwbVyNkRM&bpctr=1347364161'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'one of my fav songs - is a lil male orientated but slowly slowly - lol lesbians with the same mindset will come eventualy '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'singing :D big smile !'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'onday we will be unappologetically white n pround :D '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and able to spell .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Only when we finally have another race oppressing us Tzad'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'then it will be okay for us to be proud'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'no no ! it is not about anyone else , is only about us ! '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'just be proud of you and your race the same way anyone esle is about thiers ! imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Thats a huge problem with the liberals and trendies and hipsters here in the states'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You cant be proud to be white AND get a job...unless you are a ceo or an exec or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'my big prob in general is you can be pro elf without being anti troll .. same applies - is about pride in self - I'm assuming a mixed race person would have an apreciation of 2 cultures '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What is there to be proud of? Great, you were born white? Some people are born with 6 toes on one foot, get the fuck over it.  Same goes for black, red, yellow, purple, who the fuck cares?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Other people besides you Valk'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'they do'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Racism in America is pointless, because the terrorists don't care what color we are.  They want us all equally dead.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'The terrorists arent a problem Starling'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'read last transmittion Vaki - in Oz it is ok to be ashamed of being white - the "Sorry" black armed band view of history - I be here now '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the point is I am not racist if I am proud of my race '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You have a better chance of being killed by a champagne cork then being killed by a terrorist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'and I can trust my racist mates because they are so 1 D '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'mate , you have to play the hand you are dealt - I've made my home in Oz sans parents as best I can and now I go forward - ok I'm not going to uni atm but Krav can be my uni for the next year while I get off the junk the kill my intellect with ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'btw 9/11 was an inside job...'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Inside what? A plane?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Staged by the us goverment'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Bush stood on a stage and said some stuff afterwards, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Vaki I respect ur intellet - Scurv - Sneak Abe - Starl - mate I'm open for a diff view - just need to say ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Our goverment allowed the attacks to happen on purpose.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Never make the mistake of assuming malice where stupidity is a perfectly acceptable explanation.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'LOL'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Occams Razor revisited ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US government funded the Mujahideen, some of whom went on to form Al Qaeda because they were fighting the USSR.  Once the USSR stopped being the Afghani/Wahabi 'Big Bad Country', it was only a matter of time before the US filled that role.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Problem was, the US seemed to have some cognitive dissonance as to the determination of these people to fight for themselves...'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'apparently they make the best AK-47 too '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So yes, the US government did in fact bring 9/11 on themselves, but they sure as shit didn't plan it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'we need a 9/11 social'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'great news headline'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Secret Service grill 16yr old over Youtube School video politics project'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly a terrorist'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'CNN censors truth about Bahrain unrest'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Italy supreme court president to refer 9/11 crimes to international criminal court'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(good timing)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be a fitting tribute to the victims of 9/11 if the people responsible were brought to justice'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i guess that'll probably never happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ATF granted power to seize and foreit property under the guise of substance abuse in cases where people have neither been convicted or charged with a crime, in violation of the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a pretty ugly sentiment'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama at +5%, in pp ohio poll, with +4% democrats and +3% women..sounds like it should be more like +0'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't pay attention to bounces.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of Obama and his good ties with the womenfolk, did you hear that DHHS is cutting down on the mammograms covered by Obamacare?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Mammograms do need rather well targeted people to be of any real use, though, they have been kind of overhyped'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Yeah, they don't work as well on males.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, no, it wasn't the male mammos HHS was targeting.  Women over 40.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'must be nice to be a member of a religion who values a book being burned more than the people who's religious / ethnic minorities are burned'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i wonder how non-islams should handle burning human beings not islamic in islam places'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Chemosh, if people started burning bibles, the US might declare one on them...'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so don't single out the Islamic people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people have been burning bibles regularly for the last 80 years, and i don't think the world's any worse off than before they started'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'probably not the cause anyways, people burn what people they hate worship sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's god is it?  god obviously sucks so now god is burned'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'big deal, the machines who printed them probably aren't feeling any pain'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'history is replete of those who have died for showing any perceived lack of respect toward Christian religions.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people you think of as christian are not christian according to the book they must have read'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you thinkt hey didn't know that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i have faith in human ignorance, but not that much'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I find it safe to assume that those who lost their lives at their hand didn't find that the distinction helped them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no, but where are they now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you're thinking of people like teh prince of muscovy being saint christ'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they are still dead, last I heard.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that religion was added to them by the byzantine empire, as a war-agreement'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'there's no foundation in religion in most of the christians you think of as christians'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'their religion is a brainwashing political tool'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that's what it is in alot of muslim places'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'politicians still use some religion today, but not as much as they used to - they haven't quit brainwashing people'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point is that what people do in the name of religion is going to be irrational. Islamic people are less irrational than those belonging to some other religions.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as Joan D'Arc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ask*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like they replaced 'insane spirit' demonology from the gospel, with mentally inferior psychiatry to reach the same result of extermination in the 1800's'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what's changed really?  they don't need religion at that point in time is all'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he's a mob, Tymas. You know what to do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they still decide who lives and dies and require no well-understood justification for their actions'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people saying to kill for god and things like that , to question them is to question god, so who understands it'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'do you think everybody's a master at psychology/psychiatry and perfect judge of humans?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or even a small fraction of the ones who the others all work for?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sounds typically unreasonable to me :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think so, the god is still black'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the thing is, humans brag about the intellectual superiority they have over other animals. They fail to point out that, under normal circumstances, they don't exercise that intellect,  making the  gap between them and the "lower orders" rather narrow :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the lords of the world would like if everybody but them was dumber than a rock'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think there's more stupidity in the world of knowledge than ever before, what about you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'perfect place for a religion like islam to install itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, humans are not dumb in the sense you mean. But you can't walk if you don't use your legs and you can't think if you don't use your brain. Neither activity is automatic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people can be dumb about alot of things though, and whoever their high priest in that category is they learn what they know about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if you look on bbc news archives when gaddafi was still alive, when he went to italy , they italian government hired a bunch of upper-class models (whores) young women to attend his speeches, and they reported that they converted to islam on the spot'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'pretty amazing signs of lord isn't it'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not very stupid in the sense that i mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'then why would they pretend that religion means anything to those non-whores'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'religious prostitution is what i seen that as'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, my first reaction to the news is "So what?" :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not mine, while they don't analyze the motives and combinations of what they report, what they report is there for that purpose often'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what I am trying to figure out is why are you singling out certain people when they all do it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and sometimes their deviancy pays off'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you think they all do it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'all humans are slave-masters and liars exploiting people's thoughts of life after death?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you could be right, or aliens too why not, is there life beyond earth?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Personally, I don't know anything about Gadaffi. I am sure that the things I've heard contain, at least, a grain of truth. But his reputation didn't strike me as unusual. There are people in the US at the moment that would have made him look like saint.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i wonder if they just take turns and play the part of the deceived, knowing in their heart that they're pretending for a one man audience'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'can you spell Dick Cheney?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, and a mayor of chicago was the main line of communication with gaddafi before the allies did their allied thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think it was chicago'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'reminds me like this cities of the underworld/underworld history's on history television, where america released a mafia don from prison to communicate with mafia groups in italy before they invaded to destabilize mussolini'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i wonder just how many people like that are in america and canada and other places'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point is that people in power are only different from each other in degree :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'britain does that too, in exchange for a high-up member of a foreign resistance to britains plans betraying his group (perceivably) they give him sanctuary, an anonymous identity and wealth for him and his family'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I recommend you read Camous' The Rebel. Once you grasp the existential aspects of revolution everything becomes clear :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Camus'*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the dumb warmaster of national plans would obviously see that if he makes more groups to betray his real group will acquire vast resources in the thankful counterpart'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'foreign aid and things like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i watched on aljazeera video called 'america's dangerous game' that claimed all american aid to yemen goes directly in the bank account of the taliban/al qaeda - and honduras is another documentary with a similar story'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can read "foreign aid" as "indentured servitude" :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but, as they say: if you take the money you have to do the job :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, canada can afford to federal cut all of it's national programs that prevent death and destruction to itself, but can afford to feed west africa and somalia, both ruled by very evil people'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'double some donations today to your canadian charity destined for those places, i bet next year that tax payer will dole out the same scam'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I am sure they are getting their money's worth.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I wasn't aware West Africa had a ruler.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'look up the countries included in it, see what kind of disparity exists between ruling elite and end product'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So one person rules all 16 countries?  Intersting'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'end product's what they supposedly want the money to go to, but will it get past the cauffers of the ruling elite?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how many independent verifications will be done, since the american peace corps have had 125,000 volunteers since it was created in 1961'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and that often seems to be a national excuse to run an anonymous foreign business'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it could be the case that a secret society does rule those countries. People linked by self-interest, for instance.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and the banks, and the reporters they can hire and all that stuff, they don't do anything transparently'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but I doubt it would be something official.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if you think -making people- starve to death is anything new, and eating like a pig right in their faces - you just need to study some history in the last 100 years to see it happen to tens of millions '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and i think that's some of what goes on in africa, but that's my thought'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you think they'd let that egg reach the intended concentration camp veteran?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't think so, so why would i support paying the people who make them starve to death, under the disguise of helping their victims?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, here's the thing. If you don't help them starve, they someone will help starve you :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'then someone*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if you actually help people, they don't hate you for it - unless the source is misappropriated'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if you help someone that has been targeted, then you become a target.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if all the wealth you send to help them gets seized by your enemy and their killer, then gets reinvested in your own deterioration and their continued subjection to death, but you thought it was ok and you were helping them and yourself by helping them, then what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'where's the proof?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you can prove it inductively :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't waste fear on enemies like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you've seen the advertisements on TV about those private agencies asking for donations to help starving people, etc. Do you know why they are allowed to operate? Because, even if they only engage in minor corruption, they don't change the end result sufficiently to be noticed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the end result being ..'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it they made strides in, let's say Ethiopia. Someone would step in somewhere and put a halt to the nonsense.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'reduction on the number of the starved sufficiently so that they start becoming people who had to be dealt with.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that does make sense'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think i value their victims higher than them though'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they weren't all dumber than rocks i guess they'd be a force of random guerrilla warfare and things like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'unfortunately, that doesn't do the victims any good.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'nah, but the rtoad to hell is paved with good intentions, mine's just without misappropriation of the gold it's paved with'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what's the name of that one non-kgb who decides what movies can ever leave hollywood?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'doesn't look like much is held very saced there, except idea's'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'humanity has a problem. They are predators without anything to hunt but themselves :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'this is a reference to what I said earlier regarding the fact that thinking is rather unused ability. Preying is hard-wired into our beings, only by thinking we can override the instinct.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but it is easy to compromise our thinking so that aids us to hunt.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what's a good movie about a receiver of american foreign aid misappropriating the funding?  maybe 'clear and present danger'?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we are a species with out an antagonist, so we turn on each other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or that that was what the funding was for in the first place, all that corruption'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'wouldn't want many movie watchers to have some fictional scenario's with a root in reality weighing into their consideration of the governments actions, right?  so i imagine movies like that get censored from the sacred hollywood production studios'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'things like random serial killings, rape and all other kinds of petty civil violations are no problem though'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like there's the serpent and the rainbow, but i never heard of a movie about papa doc's ruling haiti'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'can't stand anything involving Jack Ryan. He is so squawky clean that it hurts the eyes to watch :) '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'with JFK cancelling the foreign aid to him'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'the comedian's is the only movie i can see even related to that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and it's possibly not including anything about that'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Columbine marked the start on an era, though there were precursors, humans are openly hunting now. Every week or so, someone steps up and commits mass murder.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'stephen king's first book was the long walk i read, still one of my all time favourites'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so there is no safety in groups anymore, now your best bet is to roam alone :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it seems like a prediction almost, to characterize the powers that be in a fictional setting'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and american media glorifies crime to the poor especially, often races within the poor are portrayed as the dominant criminal, and rap music and things like that, all glorifies crime and what's required to get ahead in america'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, there have been other books point to the same idea, but note that they are all classed as fiction.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, when it happens people are surprised. "Who could have thought...?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if they glorify crime and punishment and things like that, the fast-track life, why do they leave things like JFK and haiti out of the picture?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you'd think they'd be proud of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The US should be nicer to Haiti. Without them France would have posed a serious threat to the emerging union.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you're not being nice to a nation who's majority is destroyed for the feast of the rich'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'by trusting the rich with money propagandadly destined for the poor'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i guess they changed since then though, that was 1980's until'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'france didn't dole out a 18 billion dollar 2-3 century old debt to haiti when that earthquake struck'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'France doesn't owe Haiti anything.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'producing IMF chiefs and things like that, pretending to benefit the poor in their speeches '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'chief of banking comes from a country who doesn't pay it's debts, even after 300 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'karma obviously doesn't exist when it comes to humans'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what i read, the sum of the money back then translated to that much today'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they are not supposed to pay their debts, if they did they wouldn't get more loans :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can hold them to indentured servitude if they pay back.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'can't hold*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Why does Cuba tolerate Gitmo? Because they need the money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the original lease ran out in 1960 and even if the US and Cuba are not in diplomatic terms, they continue to renew the lease.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, that means that if you don't have anything substantial to use as collateral for the foreign aid you receive, the lenders will get their pound of flesh.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the "loans" are granted even though the IMF and other agencies know that the money will be pocketed. The citizenry, though, will be held accountable.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I only have anecdotal evidence, but I hear morale and general wellbeing (i.e. literacy, access to food/water, medical) in Cuba is higher now than it ever was pre-communism?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, though education has suffered.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Education has suffered? This is one thing where I *have* seen decent sources - literacy in Cuba is at its highest under Communism than ANY other time'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Castro was educated in the US, so, unfortunately, he implemented that educational system when he ascended to power.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yeah, because fuck letting women learn, right? (one of the first moves of Castro education-wise)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, Cuba is 99% literate. But the people are not educated.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Now, the good stuff I've read is mostly on Google Scholar, but there's some good laymans, and some decent links from w/p - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Cuba'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The ability to read is almost always the precursor to any education.  Certainly universal in modern times'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there will always be scholars, but the average knowledge is down, and Vakieh? Women were learning in Cuba before Castro.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '>>The Cuban Revolution in 1959 brought numerous changes to the country, especially for women. Prior to the Revolution many women lived as housewives and for those who needed to work there were very few choices. Many women in rural areas worked in agriculture and for women in the city working as a maid or prostitute was the only choice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and what do you think the men were doing in rural areas? Practicing law and medicine? The were doing what rural people do, work the land. So they were no better off than the women.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Point?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Rural men, rural women, urban men, urban women.  One of these groups was far better educated than the other 3, now all 4 are hitting a good 96% literacy'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that saying tha Castro improved the women's lot is a bit over the top. What he in fact did was to equalize poverty across the board. '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'He improved 1 subset of men, and 2 subsets of women.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, so what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So, that is helping women's education.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that would have been great  if the improved could have profited by the improvement.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is hard to be in the upper 90 percentile in literacy without having women become literate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The whole country profited.  The fact they stayed in the black in the face of their greatest economic partner embargoing them is a testament to the relative success of their policies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and that's not my point anyway. He could have archived the same result without watering down the educational system.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Watered down with what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What was there before which was taken away?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, Vakieh, people did wear shoes in Cuba before Castro. I am sure that that surprises you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'When did we start talking about shoes?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you are acting that pre-Castro  Cuba was a a site of barefooted, loinclothed people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wut? Pre castro cuba was a polarised, educated urban male run country, where the rural population were little more than serfs, and the urban woman little better (on average)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am not arguing that he brought education to the masses, I am arguing that he could have left in place the same educational standard. Rather than dismantle the system he could have widened to the masses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Again - what was dismantled? What was taken away? What could you get under a pre-Castro education that you could not get now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'instead, he brought the intellectual common denominator down.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You keep using the phrase 'common denominator' - I do not think it means what you think it means'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Dropping the top but upping the average is, in fact, INCREASING the common denominator, as it is, well, common'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But again, I am not convinced the top was dropped at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, let's put it this way, Vakieh. When he implemented the new educational system, it moved those already being educated 3 to 4 years back. He could have widen the scope of the system so that the same level of education would become available to all. What he did was to throw away the standard in place and substituted it with a standard similar to the one the US uses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So you are just annoyed some people had to study a bit longer as their degrees were now replaced by new ones?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, I am annoyed that people are not taught nearly as much as before he came to power. In fact, the end result is much less. He didn't need to do it that way, he did it that way because the education he received in the US indoctrinated him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Oh, of COURSE! Castro did what he did because he was acting under US indoctrination!'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What a fucking retarded thing to say'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The country is in turmoil due to years of civil war, he wipes the slate clean and implements a radical new education plan (which works, btw) - some people who were studying during the war now have to continue studying a bit longer.  Whoopdy fuckin doo'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, and that doesn't mean that he was acting as an agent. He just didn't know any better. He assumed that he had gotten a good education and implemented the system that taught him. He didn't want to listen to others that counseled against it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the country was not under civil war until the powers that were propping Batista decided to bail out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'He ran the country for years, through some of the toughest and most critical moments of its history, and Cuba is still here, and still highly literate where its neighbours are not.  I would say he was educated enough, wouldn't you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Castro's presence in the mountains was more an annoyance than a threat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cuban test scores are supposed to be pretty decent though'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'For a Latin American country, they are phenomenal'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'certainly very good scores for their level of development'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Vakieh, you think that any education is better than none and I can't argue with that. You still want to miss the point and that is fine. But the point is that he didn't need to dismantle the old system of education all he needed to do was expand it to encompass all the citizenry. The lack of mass education in Cuba was not a function of the educational system but of the lack of availability to the masses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'not any education is better than none, education can be used to remove people's common sense/natural education with no added benefit but being socially acceptable'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'without evidence it would be hard to argue that it was better before... it certainly doesn't seem like it could be true.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Didn't need to dismantle the education system? In order to expand like he did, you can either keep the old one and make it bigger, or create a new one.  He chose to create a new one, and it worked.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it definitely has been in the past i read about, and is becoming that in lots of places'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, he chose to create a new one and he modeled it after a failing system.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he said, for instance, "There is no need of a 5th grader to know algebra". Why would that be true? But that's what he implemented, among other things.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I didn't learn algebra until year 8, your point?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you think it's ok for a 5th grader to not learn algebra? OK'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'king george knew 3 languages and spoke political issues in each by age 8'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and most of the learning materials people learn in things like math were invented by lords and extremely wealthy people'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yes, I do.  My country has one of the best education systems in the world, and Algebra need not come into things until later'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you think that learning algebra in the 8th grade (the circles and triangles :)) is an archivement.  That is only true if you undervalue human intelligence.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'cause they had the time and their job was whatever they wanted to do, so they could afford to spend it mastering some subject while nobody else could'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'education is intentionally dumbed down to keep the majority stupider than the minority'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're protesting that in chile now'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's pretty ironic that you argue that castro copied the us system after his revolution, when the previous system was imposed by the us...'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lol :-) I'm not about to go boasting, but I'm...pretty good at maths.  The mathematics curriculum for my country's education has algebra beginning in year 8. (we do pre-algebra in years 6 and 7)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'This curriculum has produced some of the top universities worldwide, nobel prizes for fields involving mathematics, and an education tourism industry wich is booming'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '. o O ( what the heck is pre-algebra?! )'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'which*'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why do pre-algebra? Why not do algebra? Only because the system is afraid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pre-algebra being things like order of operations in more detail, looking at associative properties, etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Should learn to walk before you learn to run'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a 10 yo kind can solve simultaneous equations if you explain to him how. There is nothing fascinating about elementary algebra, not if the child has a good foundation of arithmetic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so... addition and multiplication? And their inverses?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It's not about being able to 'do', that is a poor way of educating.  Education is about understanding.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That sort of thing Sonshi, yes.  It is also pre-calculus, so things like graphing of equalities/inequalities and the like get a look as well, and esp. things like gradient'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you have to be 14 yo before you can understand algebra? Can you tell your shoes appart without an R and L stenciled on them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Perhaps there are other things which are taught? Not as if our kids are sitting in maths twiddling their thumbs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a child with a basic understand of algebra and geometry has no problems with elementary calculus either.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is nothing earth shaking about understanding that a secant that has point on the circle moving toward each other will turn into a tangent.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmmm... now I'm curious about my country's current math syllabus.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'do most people end up not using their education for anything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's beside the point :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, waste of the best years of life'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no, but they definitely won't get anywhere , even as a gas pump operator, if they don't waste the first 13 yeras of life on school'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'had I not discovered money I would have been happy staying in school all my life :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '18 i guess, 13 of it in school though'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'and if you graduate from university and all it's post-school ritualistic shit, it better be one of the ones who have a contract with the businesses you could get a job for, as they recruit only students with a degree from a certain university cult'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canada and america's education system works so good that all of their advanced reserach is conducted by immigrants from foreign nations, like china and arabia'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'or russia once in awhile'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'obviously proof that education pays off, even conceptually, since you have to import people from foreign education systems to develop anything new '
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'don't forget the Germans :) Space program, automated warfare :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, after ww2 germany became the allied ussr'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'didn't it?  lookin through what i read from history that's what it looks like'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so it's not itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'brain chemistry's one, then there's technology but that's a step below brain chemistry i think'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how many brain chemistry altering mysterious formula's are consumed by the average american or canadian in a day?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'those fields 'development' are handled by foreign people from china especially who run their departments in your university's'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the famous Operation Paperclip brought a majrity of  the Germans associated with technology to the US.'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'from what i could gather looking through the names who contributed to research studies and things like that, conducted in american and canadian universities'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'lead by a person with a very chinese looking name for instance, pretty delicate kind of reserach experiment'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'where's there a canadian non-asian or american non-asian contributing?  possibly in a supporting role'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they just add that name in there to make it appear like education results in anything non-foreign'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'maybe they got their educations here and then used them here though, not saying they didn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but i think it's kind of odd that basically all research projects are handled by them'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'better china than russia though, china has a sense of strict loyalty to itself where russia prefers to serve stalin's communist grain bags at the expense of everybody else'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'what happens to chinese officials who fuck the chinese government?  at least they get arrested sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in russia or america or canada, that's just a job description'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'how come thailand's a slutty whore but china's not, china actively weeding out criminals who whore people?'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they're not too far away from one another'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think china has the only real government on earth, who's not filled with conspirators and traitors'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'to it's own people or itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'israel might be second'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'israel's only 60 or 70 years old though, in the next hundred of 400 years things might change alot - where china's been china for maybe 4000-8000'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'india's a pretty old country too, then egypt and jordan'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you don't remain a country for that long without having some kind of a connection to all the evil nations on earth'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'some of them country's just kept their name but became the property of a larger corporation though, like monsanto'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'germany's one of those'
T3/r7/2012-09-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'egypt most likely is too'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'naughty libyans killing the american ambassador like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm pretty sure chocolate needs to be classified as an intoxicant'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'well technically it is a drug as classified by the FDA '
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, we all know how wack government classifications are'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'so is sugar btw it just has to be a substance that changes brain chemistry in a definable way iirc'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'If chocolate is legal, legalize weed imho.'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how can they control people, get people into their justice system, and make lots of money if they legalised it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'i think we should go the other way and make all drugs illegal for awhile so ppl can see the difference they make to the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they wouldn't be able to justify all those laws, all that money for the "war on drugs"'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'comments on the latest unforced "error" by Romney?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I don't know what you're talking about but fuck Romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'Romney is the man, screw obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hmm. romney just might be /a/ man. i'm not certain'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'his father tried to sneak into the presidency even though he was born in Mexico :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'i heard Obama is gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'and he worships the devil'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'here we go again :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Biff: 'i hear Osama is gay, ftfy'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'screw walfare and poor people!   Vote Romney!'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler grins evilly.
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'secret gay muslim communist atheist, yeah, yeah, we've heard from those kinds of people...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'no hes not atheist he worhips the devil'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'google Bohemian Grove, Committee of 300, CFR Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'they are all so gay and they even wrestle in poop, I swear to god on the real life'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'nah just tell me wtf it is...a video of Oboma worshipping the devil or blowing a guy out back?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'figure it out yourself'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Alex Jones snuck into Bohemian Grove a while back'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'So, seems Ethiopia is using the same methods as on guantanamo to find "terrorists" "guilty". '
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'guess that would explain the flag burning'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Flag burning?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'oh maybe i'm getting my stories crossed, was watching american flags getting set on fire'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'on the news'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Ah. Flags are irrelevant.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'AIDS flags'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Was some bullshit with an amateur video that set it all off'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I was referring to the Swedish journalists that were forced to admit to being terrorists and put into ethiopian jail for 14 months.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '"Religion of peace" - lol.  Only religion which has any claim to being "of peace" imo is Buddhism.  And even they do violence to themselves (self immolation)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Religion is bullshit, but terrorism is even more bullshut.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The odds of a suicide bomber being religious are pretty high :-P'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, but it's a minor threat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Oh, no argument there - T is the new red scare'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The only terrorist act that has killed a lot of people was in hiroshima and nagasaki.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'my moms AIDS have spread to millions....'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'call it a torrorist attack if you will...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'By all definition of terrorism, having and using nuclear weapons is terrorism.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'terrorist acts are meant to kill a relatively small number of people. Terrorists archive nothing if they kill everyone. The point of terrorism is to induce certain behavior in the population.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Exactly. And that's why the US bombed only small cities in Japan.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'hiroshima and nagasaki didn't kill all the japanese, and they induced certain behavior'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well applied terrorism is like a low-grade fiver or a toothache.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'even if you get so used to the condition that you can consciously ignore it, psychologically it is beating at you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And 911 was designed to make the US a paranoid lawless police state. They succeeded.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that is why I have my doubts about 9/11 being an external terrorist attack.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'External, except that the terrorists were trained by CIA.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if there had been a campaign of terrorism against the US, it would not have been handled that way.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'terrorism consists of little acts of violence. If you want a really good example of terrorism, just remember the DC shooter. He was textbook classic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you didn't know when, where or even if, so that put you and a tremendous psychological disadvantage which in turn put pressure on the government.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's classical terrorism.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'will stepping on that sewer lid blow me up? Was that car backfire a shot? That's what a terrorized populace thinks about.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I think about terror'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, well applied terrorism is felt in the bones :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in fact, it is its own citizenry that is carrying out a terrorist campaign against itself. Columbine, Auora, the supermarket thing, the Virigina shootings, all that is preying on the consciousness of the people, and it is all domestic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'now people will worry, even if only a little, that going to a movie might be fatal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the dude wasn't trying to prevent people from going to movies, he was just a psycho'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if it happened once, why can't it happen again?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: '9/11 was stupid'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I read an article showing that 9/11 was preventable'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if nothing else, 9/11 showed that when the chips are down the government is so inept that it can't protect its people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'the only think I could never get an answer for is why NORAD was told to stand down that morning by VP Cheney'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ask Dick :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wait, no, don't ask. He might shoot you :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'the fact that there is NO answer leads me to belive that our gov really just let it happen because it was benificial to thier agenda'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's one way to look at it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Al Quaida did it, but the US Gov let it happen to us on purpose, that is what I belive'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'We may never know for sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Al Queda did it? I am glad I finally found a witness :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'they could have just been dumbasses like when pearl harbor happened to us'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Pearl Harbor didn't just happen, it was manufactured.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'there is clear evidence that the Japanese military code was broken early enough to decode Hirohito's reluctant go ahead with the war.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and how did the Japanese fleet sail to Pearl Harbor without one single US ship spotting them? The US fleet had been dogging the Japanese warships for months.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Do you know the proverb, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the dogging was one of the reasons Japan decided to go to war. Some military people say that that was the reason for the US actions in the Pacific.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'And it's accompanying friend, "Make something idiot proof and they just build a better idiot."'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The reason for the war in the Pacific was pretty obvious...economic control of the gold road through SE asia...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sorry, you can't expect 1000s upon 1000s of tons of warship to sneak by an entire US fleet. I can't buy that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I would wear a gas mask...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as to the CIA involvement, I believe that if the US indeed was behind 9/11, they would not have used the CIA. The honest reaction of the perceived spy master organization would go a long ways toward making the claim of outside terror believable. They would have recruited a group with no connections to any agency. '
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'shhhhh , she's on !'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Seems like Bernanke fired his last rocket while I was away. I wonder why.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who do you reckon is behind the muhammed video?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama to revoke gun ownership for pot smokers'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps they should revoke government office for criminals and communists'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'california already does if you give them a reason to looking your records'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher laughs out loud.
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'just when you thought america couldn't get anymore retarded...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, your house of representatives is seriously wack'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I assume you're talking misdemeanor cases?  Because I would imagine most states don't let felons purchase guns.'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'to register a firearm in cali you have to sign a waiver saying you don't use any mind altering subatances and aren't mentaly unstable'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well who's going to say yes to that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chocolate is a mind altering drug'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Dragon RandAlthor nods.
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they mean seriously mind-fucking drugs, well then sorry, but pot doesn't qualify'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lsd does'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prozac does'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most SSRi's do'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chisato: 'lsd and guns are a win win combo'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'but they have used it as a issue to try and take legal users legal guns'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd be more worried about the vote extension to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Ammendments act *FAA) that has just completely shredded the 4th ammendment, myself'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shredded it irrevocably'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah america gets closer to be a nazi state every day...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'pretty soon anyone that speaks out against the goverment won't get jailed, they'll gassed'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'undoubtedly, they already disappear vets'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'army veterans, that is'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that's pathetic'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'They should dissapear welfare recipients'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'they want everyone on welfare...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'way easier to control that way'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Yeah, good luck paying for that without a tax base'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah well america has nothing to sell anymore, something has to give...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's a disgrace, but what do you do?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that's why people are trying to implicate the US in crazy videos of Muhammed to stir up the rabble in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the middle eastern arabs, being a bit on the stupid side, fell for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'not hard to believe...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'maybe if they weren't already there they might not have bought it'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooh, gold shot up again'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt they'll use this as an excuse to bring in more laws and clamp down on our freedoms yet more'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '77yr old grandmother with bladder infection dragged from car for failing to show id'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortuantely for the officer, this time she was guilt of an offence'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'harvard pediatrics instructor arrested on child porn charges'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'hmpf'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'favourite election billboard so far: "Somewhere in kenya, a village is missing it's idiot"'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I can't take people serious when Bush gets two terms but Obama is an idiot'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, what do you do? most americans are sleepwalking zombies'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only question for them, like the Brits here, is "how bad does it have to get before the penny -finally- drops"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'no kidding... i have a friend that used to live in cali and az... she eats in her sleep :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does she groan "Brains!"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nope :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does she vote democrat?'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i dunno, she lives in canada now...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'not that voting matters...'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, the former republic of Canada'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'democrats and republicans are all the same fucks'
T3/r7/2012-09-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democrips and rebloodlicans'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'OBAMA SUX'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am sure he'll survive your lack of endorsement :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'Archer is the best cartoon ever...debate starts now!'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jormundr: 'isnt it Archie?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'no Archer...the spy cartoon on FX'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Strange that muslims are so insecure about their religion that they cannot tolerate critique.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If someone made a mocking movie about something I believe strongly in, I would definitely not try to storm the embassy of the originating country... but maybe that's just me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'try bad mouthing baptism in alabama and see how they react'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'or the bombings there by christian extremists over abortions ppl from all religions have a tendency to get crazy over it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Agreed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Probably safest to shoot al religious people :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'e-sex for e-dollars :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but that's already going on :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point of Market.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Huan: 'don't think it's a miss, it's more apropriate for this channel'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos looks at Huan and goes "Heh."
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'good idea, Dexter, but what does that have to do with Market?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'crap :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anyone here ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'So, now the obesity epidemic is solved in New York. Good for you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Is this the no large soda thing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Until people figure out they can just order 2 sodas.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That should take about 14 seconds.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like american embassies are bearing the brunt of decades of dodgy foreign policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or decades of crazy religious leaders, take your pick'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, definitely western foreign policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, because my country started it 100yrs ago or so'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think Obama will do now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither of the candidates have come out of this well so far'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was probably about time they had a rude awakening about what their foreign policy actually -does- abroad'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'to different degrees though'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I predict Obama will wait and hope, that seems to be his general crisis strategy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like the difference between flopping a bit, and crashing and burning...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've been postulating at who's behind it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so easy to sabotage the US these days - just send some money to some american willing to sabotage their own country.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was it purely a case of a convicted fraudster sticking it to the man, or was there governmental involvement, and if so, whose?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be quicker to list the countries that -wouldn't- have reason to be involved'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though Israel has form'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heck, at least one entire party, representing about half the population, is engaged in economic sabotage to try to gain power...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's wack'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're both responsible to doing that'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again, to different degrees...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it goes far beyond the two parties'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one is looting a bit on the side. The other one has a sledgehammer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have half of americans on food stamps because china has been buying up all your food'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you had old Bernanke further screwing your economy by printing some more fiat currency'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It worries me slightly that I am not sure which party does what in Sonshi's statement..'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'this might sound obvious, but... people on food stamps are poor people. Just address the poverty issue better.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, their income is low compared to food prices'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they aren't even necessarily unemployed people'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'QE-unlimited won't help that, it just fuels inflation'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, which one is the party that's opposing infrastructure development and investments in the name of deficit reduction, while calling for more military spending, and tax cuts for themselves?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '46m and change on foodstamps, # of households rising with # of people constant recently, not sure why'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sonshi, they're both shite'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one is a lot worse...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and foodstamps is bribery, really'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it is limited QE :) 40bn/month (+operation twist)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only because you don't understand all the issues, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Jesse Ventura might stand for president in 2016, so there is hope'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'assuming Obamney hasn't destroyed the country by then'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pot calling the (glass) kettle black...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a careful reading of economic issues, as I have pointed out, will reveal which one is a lot worse'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, only from a loaded point of view'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It takes a lot of time to destroy a large country. Obama might succeed in delaying North American energy independence by another couple of years, increasing entitlements a bit and adding another 7trn of debt, but probably not much more'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'unless he is going to make an effort to reward his backers during 2nd term'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'building an economic system that encourages higher levels of inequality tends to result in large numbers of poor people. It can be viewed more as a feature than a bug...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you don't want people on aid, either you'll have to keep killing the bottom 20% until there're 4 people lest in the country, or you've got to fix the economic system.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(left)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you have to fix the economic system, correct'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't do that by borrowing more'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you do that by fixing the underlying problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'raise taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'fixing the bottom 20% might require you to bring factories back to the US, and even then, nasty robots are stealing the unskilled/semi-skilled jobs'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you reacted like iceland had to react tax-wise during the crisis, it would raise plenty of revenue'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Obama's complicit in sending your jobs abroad'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's all for redistribution of wealth, but on a global scale'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'build more good housing, better roads, rail, airports. All these things cost money, yes. But if you employ americans to do it, you'll wind up collecting it back in taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stop selling your food abroad, stop closing down your power stations, become food and energy self sufficient'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stop dictating to the states how to run'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I think companies are the ones who make those decisions'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it stands, it's all fucked up, and that's why obama put into place emergency powers to essentially confiscate all infrastructure and resources'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'agriculture is heavily subsidised in the US. If your food is cheap, others will buy it. That's how things are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(you do realise he did that, right?)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Romney's plan to be energy independent in 2020 is a bit on the optimistic side, but if you include canada, it might be done by 2025'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '^ citation needed'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be simple'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you already have all the natural resources you need'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be better to spend that QE money on that rather than pissing it away by giving it to Goldman Sachs and JP morgan'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'romney/ryan's plans are full of "magic asterisks", assumptions too ridiculous to be true'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it requires undoing Obama's absurd energy policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK suffers the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have pensions freezing to death each winter because of high energy prices caused by stupid fake green policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at the rate the world is going though, the US will be "energy independent" within the next century, whether it likes it or not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only that, but we now have to import electric and gas from france and russia'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'retarded policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'retarded retarded retarded'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Tiger, I'd like to see examples of the policies which are "shipping jobs overseas", or dicating states how to run, because as far as I know those statements are completely false'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'General Electric, General Motors, Saric'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you should see what happens when higher temperatures start to wipe out more species we care about, and eventually crops...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama has done a fair bit to stop development of fossil fuels and pipelines, and shut down coal plants (so the US exports more coal to China, great for enviroment, I guess)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do know GM was barely saved...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'businesses have to be allowed to fail'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'how high temps do we need to wipe out lobbyists?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not letting them is why the banking crisis occured'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taxing coal mines would generate more revenue, and reduce exports...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if those resources are so precious, why not just tax them to the hilt?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Every time I hear about rescue plans for businesses, I ask myself where those plans were in 2001 when the IT industry crashed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'and Romney's plan to become 'energy dependent' is impossible without green energy, as the U.S. already drills at 70% capacity... so claims that Obama is stifling our oil production are entirely false'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how much of your oil is exported?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Fortunately, the IT industry was allowed to fail, so now it's a very healthy business.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'impose a sensible level of carbon tax, and you'd generate more than enough money to not only help those poor affected by the rise in prices, you'd also have plenty towards the deficit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'most of our oil is exported, because we have a global economy... the only way to stop that would be to add regulations or tariffs...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(how much depends on the actual level of tax, of course)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'carbon taxes won't help you'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need to redress the trade deficit'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'we need Hermain Cains 999 plan'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why kaynsian ecomics won't work in the Uk'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Also he will improve realtions with Uzbecky-beckystan'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'trade deficits are a short run concern'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'easily addressed by short term monetary measures'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've heard it all now'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The only thing that really helps is to develop technology so that fossil fuels can be replaced. Everything else is just a means to get there.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you see, if you have a trade deficit, where are those dollars going?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'US energy independence rather depends on developing unconventional oil (and more gas)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abroad, sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least in the 10-20 year frame'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'do you imagine people are accumulating greenbacks/pounds just for fun? Cause they're shiny and pretty?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, sonshi, they're accumulating RESOURCES'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they'll spend them at some point. And guess who sells stuff for dollars/pounds?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'tiger you laugh at him, but he's exactly right'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not you'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No way the US will become independant of foreign oil in 20 years. Not a snowballs chance in hell.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, look at it another way: Those bonds you've sold will need to be paid. How do you intend paying for them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: '50 years may be possible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it's not at all true that they're stockpiling your resources... and even if it were, it's your fault for not taxing them at the source... A carbon tax on those would just be paid by your "stockpilers"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't carbon tax people not in your country'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'print money and pay the foreign creditors. Who will then buy your goods. Great for your economy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yes you can... it's called a carbon tariff'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'WHAT goods?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'North America might become independent in 15-20 years, the US needs rather longer :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can if the resource was produced in your country'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have nothing to sell'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'there is a whole lot of misinformation being spread around here'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and anything you make will be uncompetitive because all that currency you created out of thin air has devalued your currency'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'How can north america be indepentant if the US is not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if they can't buy anything, then congrats, you've repaid them with nothing. Great deal for you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Canadians tear up Alberta and send oil to Cushing :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Does canada and mexico produce a lot of oil?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you do know that if your currency is devalued... that makes your stuff cheaper, and hence more competitive, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If they did, the US would have invaded a long time ago.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'however, if foreign energy is a major input in your export products, the effect is somewhat muted'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'then again culture is the #1 US export by now, I think'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'definitely'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I can see why canda wouldn't care as much about global warming though... they've got plenty of land and all the power. If americans start starving and the US economy collapses from the after effects, they can just shoot the refugees at the border...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Fortunaly, nobody pays for that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and selectively admit "security" personnel'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'there's a lot more to global warming than temperature... there's also the problem of rising sea levels, changing habitats and resulting animal populations dying'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mexico is screwed, but mexico has been screwed for a long time...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And sea acidification.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And, in the long term, a new ice age.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if insect populations take a hit, crops yields would crash'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I bet canada cares about a new ice age.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the ramifications are nearly endless'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then it'll be "all hail monsanto!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ice ages are nothing to worry about... it's easily to produce more heat. Tough to remove it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Mexican oil/Pemex is generally considered to be moderately mismanaged, and production is heading downwards. It is assumed that they have large undiscovered reserves, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It would be impoossible to produce enough heat to counteract an ice age.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(easy, I mean)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pretty easy, really, just inject enough of the appropriate gases...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Which gas could you get in enough amounts to thaw 1km of ice, without killing everything on the planet?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, just emit enough methane or something to bring radiative forcing to 0'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not enough methane on this planet to make any difference to an ice age.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as long as it's at 0, there'll be no actual cooling'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, you really don't need that much. Natural temperature variations are much smaller than what can be achieved through absorbtion and reradiation by gases'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'we know how to warm the planet (greenhouse gases), but doing so, even during an ice age, would still devastate the environment which has adapted to that climate'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In reality, once the gulf stream stops, all life above new york or so will be impossible for the next 100k years.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is there life above new york?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not entirely sure there's life IN new york'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But, who fucking cares, it's not gonna happen in my life time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what you think will happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... it depends on how old you are now...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I still have hopes of surviving to 2100'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It would take 100s of years for an ice age to form.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If not 1000s.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'by which time the earth would start to be somewhat of a hellhole for the unprotected.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nah, the who planet would be cooler.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'whole*'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll all have died in fema camps, or in riots, or of starvation, or a mass bioweapon, or from being nuked until green before we ever need worry about rising sea levels'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yo isn't there that film where they survive a frozen planet, so it must be possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or starved to death through overpopulation'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The ice age traps all abundant carbon, as well.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but hopefully we'll rapidly discover terraforming strategies once the problems become obvious and govt funding for such projects increase.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not likely, but not impossible.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country has invested a lot in ancillary adaptive technologies, so we'd be in a good position to capitalise on the panic once the average joe realises what's happening...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and we wouldn't even feel too bad about doing it, since we did warn them too...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Which country is that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'singapore.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we're pretty decent at land reclamation, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'actually rising sea levels has already affected wildlife and has harmed many small island nations. The sea level rises at 3.1 mm per year, doesn't sound like much but it's actually quite serious http://environment.about.com/od/greenhouseeffect/a/rising_sea_leve.htm'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China and India will make sure that no matter what you do, you'll be fucked anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why worry yourself?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and we might be getting more into underground construction.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still, the more of the world there is left, the more world there'll be to actually buy our stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and we'll still need to import food, so we kind of want the other guys to survive too'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, but you don't have the genes of a nordic hunter. Those will be helpfulduring an ice age. :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's also been this push in the so-called life sciences...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not just medicines and human treatments, but also for better food/water efficiency, and so on.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or put another way "charging people more for less", and "enforced dependancy"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, those are nice things for an overpopulated area. '
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we'll have enough researchers to help in the effort to find alternative crops too, if that eventually becomes necessary...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Less population would be a low tech solution to many problems, tho.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less population is a great solution'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you could almost do with is the opposite to globalisation, make each country self sufficient'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, that might be true, but I kind of want humanity to progress... and that means taking full control of the earth's resources, and one day the solar system's... and...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'We don't need 10 billion people to do that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'reducing the population feels like a step back'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reducing population is a step forward'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise you will breed yourself into extinction'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'more people to shoot to distant systems in search of new worlds!'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If there was only 1 billion people on the planet, we could live a much better life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the earth is capable of supporting a lot more people, if we weren't so dumb about it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i guess that's why the globalists are hell bent on ww3'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yeah, if you're lucky enough to be one of the 1 billion people.... for everyone else it kinda sucks'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'We don't need more people.  People are annoying and it would be better if we didn't have to see so many of them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the notion of self-sufficient nations is silly. The world thrives on trade and maximum efficiency can only ever be reached through globalization'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you stop paying people to breed, western societies will tend to have birth rates below 2 per couple anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the way thing are going, even the population of a country like the US can, by itself, put a moderate strain on the world's climate. 1 billion like that, and we'd still need to improve efficiency'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The earth can support more people, but not with an optimal life. More people means we have to live on cheap junk food instead of natural food, and we have to limit our resource usage significatly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'simply put, countries are better at producing some resources than others, and to stifle trade by enforcing self-sufficiency is horribly uneconomical'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want efficiency, go live in china'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you bring your efficiency round here, you'll go home in a box'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, sure, I find people annoying too, starling. But only when I can actually see them in person! Otherwise I love them!'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'you can't enforce self-sufficiency ANYWHERE, U.S. or china, the world is way too connected. How on earth do you propose stopping 400 million U.S. citizens from taking advantage of cheaper prices overseas, tigernauts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not up to me, Saric, I wasn't the one suggesting it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I don't want to live in a world where I can only eat mass produced grain based food, and I can only get a living space that is based on my status in the society instead of my needs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Wait, that's the current world. Damn.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'you are the only one here suggesting self-sufficiency and attempting to ridicule me for saying globalization is here to stay...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I was about to say that's how it is now...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'globalisation caused much of the problems we have now'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'horse has already bolted'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'yet overall it is a net positive, because trade is good.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and really, that's more a problem of government than an imminent limit on resources...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, I can find better food, fortunately. But not if the population keeps growing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best of luck with it, globalists won, ordinary people lost'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if your economic system is set up to increase inequality, that's what you get...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Everyone is a globalist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'halve the population, and the result wouldn't look too much different. Unless you're in the top 0.1%'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ted Turner and Bill Clinton want to reduce it 80%'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think more like 90%'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'really? A vast majority of stuff you buy is cheaper due to globalization... i.e. someone in a different nation made it more cheaply than we ever could have'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'isn't that a win for the common people?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not a good thing, Saric'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'o_O'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think the long term goal, over the next 1000 years, should be to get below 1 billion'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'led to joblessness, rampant consumerism'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody knows the value of anything anymore, noone knows how to make anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not having kids should be tax deductable'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'means as stuff collapses you're going to have a population full of retards'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'raise a large carbon tax, and give every (legal) man, woman, and child $200 a month. Cash.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I know how to make stuff. I made my own butter today.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I suppose the stuff I just bought was made by aliens, since "noone knows how to make anything"...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Tax marriages and kids too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are it was made in China'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there you go, they know how to make stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'globalization doesn't reduce jobs... (worldwide).. it increases them as more people within country find opportunities to enter the market since the size of the market is larger (global).'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Anyone who isn't stupid knows how to build stuff. It's just that we are lazy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'note that this is worldwide, some nations may have a decrease but the net effect is positive'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well the entire western world is stupid'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... not really lazy. It's because you can get more money doing other stuff.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can make much much more as a clerk, than as someone making shirts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I call an exception for myself. I could build everything in my apartment myself, given the proper tools and raw materials, except maybe for electronics... but nobody could do that by hand.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heck, you can even make much more waiting on tables or cleaning some rich guy's home, than actually making cheap toys or whatever...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And I bet most intelligent people could.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I feel that the best way to improve jobs and the economy, long term, is through better education and research'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Agreed'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not only the best, but the only.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, there's a certain party that's much more opposed to education than the other...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the governments disagree, their growth industries will be prisons and defence'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, the democrats tend to do better among the better educated, so there's that...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do well among ethnic minorities and the poor, not the intelligent'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'intelligent people don't vote mainstream parties because they know they're both the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you adjust for race, there's a significant bias towards the democrats as education increases'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Democrats' funders have a name for intelligent people who vote democrats'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's "Useful idiot"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other cultures have called them "Marks"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's incorrect, since intelligent people would be more likely to be aware of the consequences of not voting as a group, if one party is obviously worse...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because your reasoning is based on a false premise'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have exactly the same thing going on in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the party colours and names change, but the same arguments occur'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the country will remain screwed because people like you are delusional'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regardless of who gets in'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'i hate explaining this AGAIN, but if one is clearly worse than the other, and people don't care, that gives the parties an incentive to be even worse.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's like if you've a guy who steals a loaf of bread and a guy who assaulted someone, and you could only punish one of them, and you just said, "ah, they're both criminals"... what's going to stop them from murder next time?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an immense shame, because i used to like the USA'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best of luck to you, you're collectively going to need it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'vote democrat - because they're clearly less insane.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'hehe.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the two party system is truly horrible... and is a product of the first-past-the-post voting system... why have more then two parties when you can combine them for more power? To change the two party system you must first change the voting system'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote who you like, chances are it won't matter as to where you're going, only the route you'll take getting there'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, instant runoff voting would fix many problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just break up the states and be done'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most political infighting immediately ends'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with two parties, you need constant attention, and need to send strong signals every time you vote that certain types of behaviour are preferred'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like to see parties severely regulated'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it takes a long time to steer them to where they need to be, and you can't slacken off by pretending they're the same.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'there was an interesting poll done where foreigners were asked Romney or Obama: Obama had over 70%.  I'm not sure if that makes me support him more, or less, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Regulating parties is crazy. Just get more parties, only have 2 parties to vote for is silly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here in the UK we'd benefit from banning party whips, banning central party shortlists for constituency mp's, and mandating that mp elects have lived in their constituency for at least 5 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'd very, very much rather see Jill Stein end up President.  And I'll probably vote for her as New York is already Obama locked, but I know she doesn't have a chance against the current system and money'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, ranrr, but sonshi wants that corrupt monopoly to continue'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote Ventura 2016'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Jill Stein is a good candidate'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given how crazy romney sounded whenever he stepped out of the country and made comments about others... I'm not surprised non-americans think he's nuts...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'outside the US, they both sound like nuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Also, make it mandatory for politicians to publize all their contributions'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'in any other business, if you have only two companies colluding to keep everyone else out, you'd call that a monopoly, and you'd tell them NO DEAL'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I want instant runoff...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but if you're going to stick to two parties, vote the less crazy one.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I like instant runoff, and for congress I like mixed proportion'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'instant runoff seems like a vast improvement over first-past-the-post'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'is mixed proportion where you vote for parties as well as candidates?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'to me, even if the only thing it changed was smaller parties having a voice at debates, it'd be a huge improvement'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, I hope people realise tigernuts' tendency to lie about other people's positions...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as do you, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'with only 2 parties, it's just mudslinging'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'example?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, ranrr, but sonshi wants that corrupt monopoly to continue'"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's one...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'go on'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you said "Vote Democrat"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can't expect to spout these things and not expect people to call you out on them'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least some of the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In sweden we have 2 major parties, and a handful small parties. Even the small parties have a voice. And it gives people more choice, e.g. we have the racist party, or the religious nut party. Of course, in Sweden those 2 choices are the small parties, not the major ones...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I tried to call him out on as much as I could.. but the misinformation comes in rapid-fire'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and I did say repeatedly that instant runoff is preferred...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but instant runoff is not on the ballot'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '[14 Sep 15:27:08] (Debate) Sonshi: 'vote democrat - because they're clearly less insane.''
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to insist on quotes'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Voting for the lesser of 2 evils never solves anything.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'agree, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might as well burn all your ethics and that point'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes, because no one's pushing instant runoff... I've been repeatedly stressing for months and years - when you were around too - that instant runoff is preferred'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't even know what you mean by an instant runoff'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I mean, we're pretty screwed in the Presidential race atm by FPTP.  If you vote for an independent, your least favorite of the Republicans or Democrats becomes that much more likely to be elected.  Democrats are scared the republicans will start another war, Republicans are scared Dems will chase all the rich out of the country with higher taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'd be best served by returning to a very very small central governemnt and push power back to the states'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the question is -- how do we get the average person to care about switching to instant runoff?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which gievs people by far and away the best representation'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'If you abdicate your control over politics by refusing to choose the lesser of two evils, you're never going to roll that boulder up the hill...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'words, sonshi, words and bluster'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by voting for the lesser of two evils you are ensuring that you'll always get evil'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it kept getting worse because people kept believing that there was no point in selecting the lesser of two evils, even as their apathy caused the two evils to get more and more evil'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'tiger, instant runoff means you basically cast votes in a priority.  Simplified, I might say Jill Stein's my #1 choice, and Obama's my #2 choice'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'candidates are eliminated from the bottom one at a time, and votes for them reprioritized'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the voting system that got kicked into touch when they suggested it here'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'so once Jill is clearly not the winner, votes for her are retallied, and my vote then goes to Obama, thus not "wasting a vote" against Romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's called 'Alternative Vote' system'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's deeply flawed'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'how so?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because people's votes count multiple times'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either go first past the post, or proportional representation'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the main advantage of this is that if i prefer nice candidate A, then corrupt democart B, then crazy republican C, I'd vote A,B,C. In the usual system, you'd vote B, since A appears to have no chance'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was soundly defeated here when it was suggested, and rightly so'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah, if you don't like that system, don't complain about the two-party dominance. This is the only way to end that'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I do like proportional representation, and for a large body like congress that's a good idea.  Does little for the Presidency though unless you want to commit once every hundred years or so we have a green party president just to make the math right'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it's much fairer than first past the post, or party lists'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the way it is now, if you prefer a third party candidate, your vote doesn't count'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the framework built around fpp not, fpp itself that's to blame'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'instant runoff is the only way to make sure that everyone's vote will count, regardless of who they support, and in what order.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'largely irrelevent if the constituencies are too large and the democracy too big'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(whom)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I don't believe that, tiger.  The framework naturally built itself around the system.  It's like complaining there's too many rogues/warriors in aardwolf, the problem isn't the players, the game's balanced in favor of melee'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's inevitable that the framework builds itself around the system - power corrupts, which is why your two parties are corrupt'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'any FPTP system converges on a main party, and a party trying to beat that party.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and is why that power base will seek to protect itself from change'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least if you have small democracies you have an easier job ousting it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'instant runoff is really hard to implement, however, because of its fairness. It's terrible for entrenched parties, and it is directly harmful to the ambitions of anyone who is holding an elective office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'smaller democracies people have to actually give a crap, become known in a community through local service, etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but there's a problem with that too'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'resources are largely not equal throughout a country'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'you have rich and poor areas: make education a local government function, and schools in those poorer areas suffer more for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll never have a perfect system, but the larger the system, the more centralised it is, the more corrupt it is, the less efficient it is, the less representative it is, and the more oppressed the people it pretends to represent are'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hence, IRV, or do a lot of pushing by constantly picking the lesser evil.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but, that centralized government can do more, too.  The US would have never gone to the moon relying on local governments to pitch in where they could on a space program'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'space program isn't a local government issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it is if you go full tilt libertarian :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'so, there's a need for some moderation :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'libertarians would collaborate if they wanted a space program'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I hate to do this amid a good discussion... but I have to return to work for a bit :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you want to know why there aren't any real libertarian countries? Because they get outcompeted and destroyed by stronger systems...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they get usurped by empirism, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we need to pick the best from a set of systems that can actually be competitive'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now we just have dictatorships and communism lite'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'joy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's ironic that even though on paper my govt appears much more tyrannical, it somehow feels freer than the us in many ways...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might be something to do with the rule of law'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'taking better (though not perfect yet) care of the poor. Better housing. Less crime and fewer gun-toting police roaming the streets...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my government has been slowly ratcheting in a police state. Fortunately for them most of the country was already dependant on government welfare so they've largely go it all in without people noticing'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're just better at hiding it than America'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also don't have a pesky constitution here for people to use as a yardstick'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, they don't need to come out when there's nothing happening'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh wait, were you talking about the uk'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm... it's been slightly more than 10 years since I visited the uk...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'outwardly looks no different, and that's the play, you see'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when I went there I remember thinking that everything was so bloody expensive'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in reality, we have more cameras per head of population than anywhere else on the planet'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'now prices are so much cheaper'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything you do is monitored'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prices are still expensive here, nobody can afford property'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'might be a good time to take a tour there'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, it's probably more expensive for the locals, sure...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'average property is 8-20 times average wages'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but you see, the pound had been overpriced for a long time...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well again, same problem, we don't MAKE anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our economy has basically been propped up by debt for 30 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'just devalue the pound some more and you'll see the manufacturing rush right back in'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'devaluing the pounds is what they're doing, however everyone else is devaluing their currency, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not my country!'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so net effect, everyone gets poorer because wages stay the same, cost of everythign goes up'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fun graph - http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GBPSGD=X&t=5y&l=on&z=l&q=l&c='
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only shows 5 years, but one pound used to be worth over 8SGD 40-50 years ago. Now it's a bit below 2.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise if push comes to shove, you'll just get invaded'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the US/UK answer to devaluation'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we have no natural resources'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's nothing anyone can gain by invading us, except our people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'And who'd want those?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'exaclty! Wait...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(exactly)'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'typing too fast... muttermutter...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SeXyBiTcH Fearlis: 'whats the debate in thhat? "my arm hurts when i go like that.... Well then stop going like that"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, okay, we have a port... but the US already uses it... and warships from various navies sometimes stop over too...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally it would take an act of insanity for a major power to invade us...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'smaller powers, terrorists... different matter.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while I still doubt anyone would try, our bloody govt is paranoid enough about it to conscript us so that they can say "you and what army" to anyone not a major power.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all i can think of doing really is try and insulate myself from the problems by investing in land'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the value of land will drop if people start to die off in the long term...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '8shifty'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, no doubt, but in the meantime it's a case of trying to secure myself water, food, and energy'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... in the short term, it will...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't expect the trouble to end any time soon, we have barely seen the start of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i fully expect things to get a bit hairy out there'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but by 2050, when the effects of warming are apparent, it might get hard to produce food and water, depending on local weather patterns'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt that'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's quite predictable what will happen to local weather here'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'england probably will be fine in the early stages, yeah...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, we won't'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I meant weather-wise'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our climate will become more like continental europe'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'nope, even they first world country somehow they still feudal in some ways'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since the gulf stream will move away'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we will be colder in the winter, hotter in the summer'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'and as a country their debt is very high'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for the short term, you'd be able to cope by switching crops...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'later on, it might get a bit hard, depending on how well the pollinating insects are doing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if climate doesn't screw pollination, GMO will'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'GMO/herbicides'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ironically, GMO might wind up the only thing that can grow well enough, if insect species are hit hard...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gmo should be taken out of the hands of profit making corporations'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only way to be sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, to be realistic, govts will probably seize all that ip under emergency measures if things get really bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the biggest threat facing America, government declares martial law, you'll probably have civil wart'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'war*'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"that's very nice, monsanto, what you've got there... we appreciate your contribution. Here's a dollar"'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not so sure what will happen here'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably some sort of guerilla war instead'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, I suppose if a country prefers to kill each other instead of facing their problems, nothing much you can do at that point, save for education.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'desperate people do desperate things'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the event of a collapse, people will be starving'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you'll have people who are desperate, people who are criminally minded, and those who aren't prepared to put up with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if things get bad, I'm heading for the canadian border. But barring a major shock, it's still a long way off'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the buidlers, farmers, and defenders, the vigilantes are really what you -want-, but the government HATES them'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there'll be a period where there is civil unrest where the government is actively clamping down on the defenders'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whereas if they had any sense at all whatsoever, they'd welcome them into the fold as part of the solution'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people trying to grab the lion's share of life-supporting resources for themselves in an emergency usually aren't part of the solution...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an extremely one-sided way of looking at it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'side with them, and the rest will come after you...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when we had riots here the other year, only a few people stood up for their property'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a selfish thing, they're defending their community'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not about not helping people, it's stopping people being raped, killed, looted'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about looking out for each other, but at a local community level'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, defending your property in a non-emergency and defending your hoard in an emergency are two different things...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'communities died here 30 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on the contrary, it's helping your family, friends and neighbours first'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in a realistic situation, what do you suppose those facing death will do to those who have what they need?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'die'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so one way or another there'll be war, if the govt did not prepare enough beforehand'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the country is that screwed up, perhaps they need another country to manage their affairs for a few years... cough cough.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'e'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm under no illusions as to the -possibilities- of collapse'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt it'll get that bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's certainly going to get rough'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it makes sense to make some sort of preparations and contingency'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally, when global warming starts to really hit food production, the first to die would be those in poor countries.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if everyone did likewise you'd be essentially softening the inevitable fall'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'rich countries can easily spend more on food. It might be a strain on finances, but they'll pull through.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have considerable and, imho, misplaced confidence'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the west is broke'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only rich country is china'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the decrease in food consumption will come mainly from poor countries... and there'll be wars, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and saudi'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, they're either going to have to tax the rich more to pay for it, or suffer civil war. Even the most selfish will realise what the choices are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rich never get taxed'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because the rich run the country'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'poor countries won't have that choice, they'll go right into starvation and war'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'although the rich run most countries, they're mostly not dumb enough not to realise when the poor are about to start breaking (their) things.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find they don't care'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'really? I find that the rich care even about little things like whether their houses are well kept, not to mention if random people are trying to kill them'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the really rich don't live with the poor, they live offshore'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'offshore, or in exclusive fortified redoubts'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and even if they don't currently live there, their wealth is there'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all the money in the world isn't worth anything if you can't buy stuff with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can trade with each other'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with what? Who's making the stuff?'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll essentially become neo-feudal'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'run from the poor, and they lose everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'history teaches otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why they have military, they have police, they have authoritarianism'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the peasants are starving, they seige the fort. The occupants starve or are killed...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a different version'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the peasants are starving, they siege the forts'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the masters send in aircraft and kill most of them, the rest capitulate'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'those things only work if the masses aren't starving at first. It has to be imposed to a DPRK level before the starving can commence'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well lots of things are going in that direction'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and people do not capitulate if they are close to death anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it starts with erosions of privacy, erosions of freedoms of speech'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'warrantless monitoring and warrantless searches, detainment without due process'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'making it illegal to be critical of authority'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you speak to anyone old enough, and they've seen this all before'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or anyone who has studied history'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'speaking of abuses, it seems some state is trying to remove obama from the ballot'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or the republicans in that state, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, bet it's Arizona'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Cyrni raises his hand.
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be an interesting experiment to see one or more states declare independance'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Kansas, leading the nation in votor suppression.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if they manage to pull it off, and people are still okay with the republicans, watch them try it in more states next time!'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally think the only catalyst that will cause people to wake up and seek meaningful change will be collapse or war'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise everyone just thinks kicking the can down the road it will go away'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, with the climate problems, you'll get that wish in a number of decades...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i've already said that the climate problems will be superceded earlier by more pressing issues'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hopefully it'll be more of a soft landing, but...'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always argued that chemical pollution and overpopulation/resource scarcity is a far larger problem than global warming'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it won't be, because it will be a problem unless we wipe ourselves out first'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest poll ROmney 48% Obama 45% 2% other, 5% undecided'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bunch of campuses in USA got evacuated following hoax arabic bomb threats'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally think it was Majic doing her Achmed the Dead Terrorist impression'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'aliens.'
T3/r7/2012-09-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) FrT: 'ghosts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So a bunch of butthurt Islamists are rioting in my city tonight...over a film made in the US by someone totally unrelated to Australia...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'WE'RE ANGRY.  WE JUST THOUGHT YOU SHOULD KNOW.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'THANKS'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'They don't understand the concept of freedom of speech.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Australia does whatever the US says, so they are rioting there as a proxy :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'To be fair, a rather astounding number of people don't.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'This picture makes my blood BOIL. http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/09/15/1226474/786997-protest-involves-children.jpg'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Lots of 'em also get freedom of religion wrong too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In the nordics we've taken a lot of heat, because of some artist/writers that are doing things they don't ike, such as making pictures of mohammed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'here is a quickie question, why are they doing that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The better question: who are the Muslims to say they can't?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Because they can.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'To make a point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'tbh I believe any involved in such protests have proven themselves unfit to live in a free society - ship them back to places they are allowed to pull such bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, yeah, them muslims, who the hell do they think they are? Didn't they learn anything from the crusades? They are dirt, and should be happy we didn't kill them all!'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'happy, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think they are stupid, but I am prepared to defend freedom of speech to the death.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why are they stupid?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anaristos, what a load of bs - because some Muslims got killed in the crusades you should be killed for making a cartoon? Fuck that noise'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'the artists are probably protesting against extreme muslims'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'They use silly pictures to make a point. I think they could be more refined.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/603325_10151145003185982_1463940868_n.jpg'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure the muslims would be happy if they used oil paintings instead'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Vakieh, the crusades was just one episode, if they are not to be afraid then why the US has a fleet in the Middle East? Would the US tolerate a fleet in their waters?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one-murdered-because-of-this-image,29553/'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not to say that muslims are alone in that. Plenty of christians that also would like to limit what you are allowed to do based on their beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anaristos, what does historical oppression have to do with current rights?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you sound as if the film maker was being innocent about the content.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they are still being oppressed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Innocent? It was a film. Nobody should die due to a film'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If they tried to burn down the US embassy because of US wars on the middle east, I would support that, no problem.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But not because someone disagrees with their made up beliefs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And that goes both ways.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'let's say, the US, or US citizens, have burned Korans, made films defaming Mohammed and have been involved in one or two instances of genocide. I can't imagine why they are pissed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And that justifies killing people totally unrelated to the events?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That justifies rioting in a completely different country?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nothing ever justifies killing people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But both sides are killing innocent people, and the US are killing a hellofalot more.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, it does not justify it. But 4 people died there and the US is all over it, but when a US soldier killed 16, they got him a lawyer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I can burn any book I choose, any flag I choose, say any religious or historical figure was a bestial fucktard - still doesn't justify any violence against me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Agreed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But if you bomb my home country, then things change.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'We thought the wedding was a terrorist exercise, otherwise our drones would have bombed the other wedding..er..'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): A bright, shiny gold halo appears over Tinada's head.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'First of all, Vakieh, burning books, burning flags, and defaming religious figures are your right. The problem is that rights are human construct, they are only good if they are agreed upon. So, what you are saying is because your country grants you the right to be an asshole, people from other countries have to go along with the program (or you'll send in the marines).'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'anaristos: you aparently didn't actually read what vakieh was talking about...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'meanwhile, you are saying "fuck their right to protect their religion".'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he's not talking about anyone in another country doing something, he's talking about people getting violent in australia, where he is'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, I'll read it again.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're getting violent after not having anything done to them'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because they saw a picture'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if you think that the film shouldn't provoke them, maybe you have a point. However, the film did.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and from what I have seen, the maker of the film had that intent. It wasn't a mistake.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'being provoked is fine...rioting at home is not'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'd argue that some rights are universal, and everyone should have them. If your country doesn't "give" you those rights, that country is not democratic and you should feel free to ignore it. Freedom of speech is one such right, imho.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's their land, why can't they riot there?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not rioting against the filmmakers'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'perhaps you don't know the meaning of riot...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The film maker said the religion was one of violence - not slander if it's true, eh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they're not smashing things in their own house'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Freedom of religion does not mean freedom from criticism.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, they are attacking US interests, so the obvious solution is for the US interests to go elsewhere.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion, if you want that, which is often forgotten'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'Hey McDonald's, don't let some guy in Hollywood make a movie!'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'cuz, y'know, they're related'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that is fine in your country, Ranrr, that doesn't mean that is has to be that way in theirs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I would not be opposed to a complete ban on religious protests.  And that worries me a little, because I'm usually pro any sort of protesting freedom.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'd say it has. '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I call that a universal right, and any country without it is not democratic, and can go fuck itself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I demand freedom of religion in any country, any person.  If you don't give it, then to me you are a tyrant and deserve ousting by whatever means necessary'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not all countries want to be democratic...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Same deal for freedom of person and speech'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'what's freedom of person?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'do rights emanate from some natural law? There are no rights, let alone natural rights. Rights are agreements within a group, there is nothing natural or universal about them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Umbrella term covering cruel and unusual punishment, corporal punishment, etc (that does include the US death penalty) etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Countries don't have opinions, citizens have. I bet most people prefer to live in a democratic country, given a choice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, when the US finally conquers the whole world, they all peoples will  have rights :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'When will the current US people have rights, then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It isn't even about democracy - democracy can still vote the majority religion over minorities.  It is about being humane, and not being a backwards, tyrannical country/religion/group of people'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, being humane... just like that US soldier was last month.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The US is neither  humane not democratic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Right, 1 guy does something sociopathic.  Correct response is to lock him up, and either treat or segregate, as the case warrants.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The patriot act removed the few remnants of democracy from the US.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but the guy has rights, he got himself  a lawyer and he will probably walk because he was "temporarily insane". '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Patriot, DMCA, United Auto...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'just like the guy at the movie theater... temporarily insane.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That is a failure of the justice system, and still doesn't warrant any bullshit like we're seeing'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'fine, go tell them that. Tell them they are violating the rights of US citizens living in their land. Tell them that they will get sued if they don't stop.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sued? That is quite possibly the only time a military response is warranted.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but wait, they won't get sued. They are going to get a division of marines rammed up their butts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, how convenient that the US has to deploy more troops to the Middle East... he would have thought that the day was coming...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I mean I don't want to be cynical but...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US response will likely not be the right one.  But the right one imo (complete destruction of current World Emirate government, restructuring of education to eliminate gender equality, not allowed to teach religion until age 18) looks too much like brainwashing, and is too expensive besides.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in other words, take over their land.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They have proven themselves unfit to do so...then again, so have the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, I don't think your country is right...your country is hereby revoked'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, because, after all the US is the owner of the world, and therefore it will enforce its laws on your land if you don't behave. I mean, pay attention and don't forget to bow.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Who said anything about the US doing it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, who else?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'debate is the only force on the planet currently...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'err US is'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the "allies"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'whether you call it the UN or not...it's the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'correct'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sure, the US gets help and support'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but the brunt of it is the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The US is the only military that wants to fight wars all over the world, but not the only one that could.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we can be thankful that no one else wants to do it,  because the US would gleefully start a world war then.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the only one that could successfully on that scale'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You have a very strange view of successful.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, the US is not successful strictly because they're NOT doing it that way...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I'm relieved that the US is not that successful. Would be a even worse world if they were.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the taking over of a country was extremely successful by all measures...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'but after the country takeover, that's when the goal/tactic changed and the effort was much more reserved'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and that's where success will be elusive'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'For me, success would be if all US soldiers were thrown back to the US where they belong.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I prefer the world to be free from invaders.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right now, we're discussing the success of a directive to revoke a country, not what's right or wrong :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Success of a stupid action is irrelevant. '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the "smartness" of the hypothetical construct is similarly not part of the current discussion :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'It seems to me the idea to take over the resources of the region paints the strategic picture...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'unlike, the former USSR, or Germany for that matter, the US is obsessed with having the image of a good guy, so it waits until something "provokes" some action in its part, then it pounces. '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well sure, that's just good tactics'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they can always say that they did it to protect some "right".'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The provokation argument isn't for good guy status, it's for treaty sanction avoidance'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you don't look like the good guy to enough people, then people form ally powers against you'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'which is how germany fell...both times'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no argument, the problem is that obviously the people buy the act.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But Germany was legally required to fight WWI...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You giggle.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos goes, "Heh."
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The problem with Germany in WWI though was everybody ended up legally required to fight everybody...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And of course, the 2nd time around it was the fact Germany broke their USSR non agression pact...most of Europe would be speaking German otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'going back to the good guy image, a cynic would point out that the "provocation" can be generated by paid agitprops disguised as local "patriots".'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '=h 12'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'of course it could'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'only in eeefil countries, obviously..'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we've certainly done plenty of subversive destabilizing over the decades'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'eefil-but-good-looking'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, somehow, the current situation has a bad smell.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler lets off a real rip-roarer ... a greenish cloud envelops Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler!
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'now it does'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'just a bit too convenient, as I said before.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'let me speculate, the US will find that Iran is behind the "riots" and... wow, beautiful :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'except the Iranians are not behaving well, there has been no violence.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'thinking of what you said about destabilization, I bet it surprised the hell out of the US, that Russia actually managed to survive well enough that the US could not enter militarily to "protect" the people :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Nukes. Fin.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'georgia probably came close'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I think what happened in Georgia was staged.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the Russians felt that Georgians could become strong enough to challenge them in the region so they stopped them cold at the beginning.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the downside is that when the Russians start looking for allies to counter the NATO threat, they are going to be SOL.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ever heard of China?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'China's pretty happy to just turtle up and go with economic conquering'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Plus, once again, nukes are the only ally you need'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm... it is quite odd when a country feels that deliberately (knowingly!) sabotaging the country is free speech rather than treason...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'only if you're willing to use them, and have someplace to drop them'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the cold war obviated the fact that neither power wanted a tactical war.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I wonder if it's all right to talk about national secrets in the presence of russian officials...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what secrets and what officials?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't see any...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'Just wondering  what the americans consider free speech...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the first amendment was instituted to protect the rights of the citizens to criticize the government. It has grown from there.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'just as the second amendment granted the citizens to protect themselves against the government's use of military forces against them. It has also grown from there'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'pretty much anything not government-classified or slander is a go'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All your rights have been false-flagged away'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '. o O ( libel )'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can be branded a terrorist threat and incarcerated indefinitely with no due process'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, so?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so something like... "why, security is so lax in (insert major city) that if I were to (detailed bomb making plans) and (more detailed plans), it would be a terrible disaster. How terrible!" would be fine?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I'm going with the more-literal definition of "talking about in front of" ;-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your rights are lip service'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"terrorist" meaning threat to the establishment (of the NWO)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher is telling the whole world to suck it!
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and with the new presence, I'm outta the channel...have fun gents :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Sonshi, you can say that. As long as there is no connection between you and the one who actually makes the bomb :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler pukes on Questor.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am out also'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'yay!  debate channel is all mine to fart on now!'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler lets off a real rip-roarer ... a greenish cloud envelops Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler!
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher enthusiastically high-fives Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler!
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything happening here ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'AIDS!   AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIDS!'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'you're all wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mr. Dirty Dirkdiggler: 'am I in the Matrix?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I've got a question for you  guys'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'anyone listening?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: '(anyway) ok, here goes:'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'suppose I have a farm'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I have 100 people working for me, and I pay them $20 a day'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'suppose their work makes me $5000 a day'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'ok maybe less'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: '$3000 a day'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the question is:'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'am I paying them $2000 a day or are they paying me $1000 a day to give them orders?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'They give you their time in exchange for money. First alternative.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your $1000 profit isn't a wealth transfer from them'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'DosseT what do you mean?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'all I know is that Im sitting around and making $1000 a day'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I mean that your business brought in $3k from your clients'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '$2k goes to cover your labor, in the simplified example'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '$1k goes in pocket - that $1k was not furnished by your labor'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'right, since the farm is mine'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'also its my business'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If I buy $3k from you, you make $1k from my purchase - your labor didn't pay $1k to indenture themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're just sitting around doing nothing and someone's doing the managing for you, that's basically your rent.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'rent, exactly'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you're getting paid because you have the land and they don't.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at least until the next revolution'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'yeah, tats exactly my point'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'well'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'so what I'm thinking is'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're actually doing some managing, you are getting paid rent plus your labour as a manager, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'should a person really be allowed to "own" a huge piece of land forever and just sit on the profits while a thousand ppl work their asses off?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ask the ones with the guns'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ask the Fed/IMF ..'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'its not like owning a car'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'or a bike '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Car's a depreciating asset is why'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'you're owning a piece of the fucking planet'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, morally speaking, probably not, which is why many countries have estate taxes, property taxes, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'its depreciating because it doesnt produce anything?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and in some countries, all (or most) "private" land is in theory "leased" from the govt'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'only in theory'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as for in practice... varies by country'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you don't pay property tax, you'll be frozen out'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in mine, for example, a lot of land is under a 99 year lease. After that it reverts to the govt.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I'd like to know how it varies'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You essentially are leasing "owned" land'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, given the age of the country, I don't think this has been tested yet...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'thats cool'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '99 year lease? raw deal...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Hermain Cain'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'If I make an investment, I want it to turn into profits'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'but sometimes it just goes way beyond that'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'so ok,I want to know about the laws in other countries'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the 99 year thing helps to keep the land productive, and also helps to ensure that housing, etc. doesn't get too decrepit'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'is there any law that takes away unproductive land?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What happens in 3 generations then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'When the 99 year lease approaches expiration'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in many countries, land which isn't used may be given over to squatters, if they hold on to it for enough time'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'they hold on to it for enough time = they manage to dodge bullets for enough time'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, as the lease approaches expiration... you can look for a new place, try to get another lease, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'also the laws exist, but I'll be damned if they're actually applied'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Do the holders lose incentive to invest?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, squatters usually only get the land if it has been effectively abandoned'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'For fear the government won't offer again/reneg, etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they need to be there for long enough without challenge'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'ok, but if the land is not abandoned, but it's also not productive?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the price goes down as the lease approaches expiry, of course, but that's all factored in the initial price anyway...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'as in, the owner doesn't do anything, but also doesn't let anyone else do'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if the owner is just letting the land lie there and goes around every now and then to check... well, it just winds up being unproductive.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that typically doesn't happen unless the owner is some variety of idiot'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'which means it happens a lot (most) of the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'at least here'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'where's that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'nobody gives away land, even if they dont have the money to invest in it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'brazil'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's no reason not to'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, they may have some plans for the land...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Real estate always appreciates'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or are hoping someone would buy it, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'their plans are to shoot the ass off anyone who enters it and try to plant something'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'im kidding but yeah, of course they have plans'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'even if their plans only happen in 50 years (of unproductive land holding)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I know they're entitled to it, but the question: should they be entitles to it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'entitled*'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if something more valuable can be done with the land, someone would likely offer the owners a good price/rent'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they refuse, they're probably planning something better, I hope.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'in a perfect capitalist free-market world, yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'better question is who "they" are'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'common people'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Brazilian? Foreign investors?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'no, just people who want to work the land and have something to eat'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'which is a lot better than starving to death on the sidewalk'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What's the question then'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'if they should have the right to work on unproductive land'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, random people may not know how to work the land without damaging it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'thats owned by someone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe there's a shortage of competent farmers?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Have they the right simply because it's vacant? No'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Would they want to? Likely'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'brazil, after all, has a lot of land, and not everyone can farm well...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I suppose I'd rather farm bad and eat than not and not'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you're the owner in question, it works to your benefit'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I wish they could understand that, I really do'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... rather than that, the govt could just pay them to build roads or something...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Positive sum game'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're creating wealth'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'builds roads? fuck that, hippy communes everywhere!'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the govt only pays themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'so, what if had a system where you only own something while you're actively using it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'we had*'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'something more dynamic than what we have today'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'would that be good?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'For the biggest fish'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not really. How would I switch uses? It's going to be unproductive for a while'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and what if you're keeping it fallow to repair damage?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'well then you have a reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's not going to be any difference then, because people can cook up lots of good reasons'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Reason will be subjectified to rationalize whatever the most powerful wants to do'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'heh, I like the way you thin'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'k'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'instead of increasing productivity, more effort will be spent on useless legal rationalisations'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'ok so basically if you're poor you're fucked, same as always'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I think that's my conclusion'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the best way to make land productive is to set up better systems of information exchange, so that owners of unproductive land can easily find people who can make it productive, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or rather, make it most productive, because when they don't know that that guy can offer the best price, they might hold out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in the ideal scenario, if the owner had full information on anyone who might be conceivably interested in the land, making a decision would be pretty easy, and there'd be no point holding out too...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, this requires a lot of effort on the part of the govt, and information costs money too...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'hard to understand why someone would rather leave the land idle, but as stupid as it sounds, it happens a lot'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'maybe because its just less trouble, and land keeps appreciating anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That they are leaving it idle indicates that they have a higher payoff from something other than leaving it available'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '...or they're stupid'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yep, use the land and you opne yourself up to lawsuits... could lose the land'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'plus if you spruce it up you pay higher land taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'land taxes are bad, mkay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'hm, thats a good reason...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'so basically you pay less taxes if you dont do anything with it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher nods.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'depends on the country'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lets pay tax over and over again for something you already own, that sounds fair'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'its very fair, considering you own a piece of the planet'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but generally if the land's value is higher, you pay higher tax.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If you're using it, ensure that the potential profits will outweigh its non-use'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Otherwise you're expending effort to lose money'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd suggest the right to a tax-free slice of the planet is everyone's right'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'everyone's? pfft. '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I wish it was'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nonetheless, you'd still turn a profit if you're just renting the land out on a short term basis. The problem is that there might not be any demand for it... in the sense that no one wants to pay rent for it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Sure, if the planet is Mars.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you think the government has more right to my share of land than i do, then i think we have a problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'first of all, why is it YOUR share of the land?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my 1/7bn th'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or whatever the fraction is now'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: '?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'oh ok'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the problem is, everyone thinks they have a right to more than than is their "share", simply because it was given to their greatgreat...grandfather 500 years ago by King Whatshisname'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'different issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'thats exactly the issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And King Whathisname just took it from everyone else back then anyways'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'two wrongs don't make a right'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and everyone thinks that his 1/7bn ought to be a nice green piece instead of the sahara'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Three lefts make a right'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just because in the past some bloke witha  crown thougt he had a bigger right to my land than i did doesn't mean that it's now right to tax people for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and that it shouldn't shirnk when it becomes 1/8bn...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'irrelvent detail'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and that he should have the right to show up at some farmer's home and kick him out because I want my fair share of the land, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'there's no fair share'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not suggesting anyone booted out of anywhere, but an opportunity to buy my own, not buy it then rent it on top'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I think you should be perfectly able to buy your share, just not keep it if you don't use it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a point of not having to rent land i already own off a government, it doesn't have anything to do with if it's my fair share or less than, or more than'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There'll be lots of dog-in-the-mangering'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not your business what i do with my share'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Big corporations will buy land and sit on it to drive the price up'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Oh wait, that's happening right now'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, in most places, owner-occupied property is taxed at very low rates anyway...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might be justified in having rules to prevent me from totally screwing up my share'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but on every other grounds, my share is mine'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'it's somebody's business if you're letting it rot and someone else could be planting food in it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it's usually a more than fair price to pay for protection, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then tell them to fuck off and farm their own share'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: '"shares" are not infinite'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor is population that want land'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'they're expensive as fuck and only a few people will ever be able to buy one'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Is there a strong welfare state in Brazil?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'crop-planting is how the dustbowls happened in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'fuck no'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're expensive as fuck because some asshat governments over time have crippled the market and the ability of customers to pay'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"developing country" and "welfare" rarely find themselves in the same sentence...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not out of any real shortage of land'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the government have crippled the market? jesus, you're sold'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'surely it wasnt the big companies'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'by big i mean FUCKING HUGE'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK housing bubble is largely a rigged close market'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'prices are high because lots of people are willing to pay high prices for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'brazilians are ecocidal (abominations)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prices are high because the market is starved'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not enough supply released'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'higher property taxes would alleviate that'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'big building firms sit on large banks of building land, government are colluding in it because they talk to the big building companies to plan town expansion plans'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It would just choke out the smalel guy Leinei'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'small too'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody else gets a look in, in terms of zoning'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so these companies sit on their land, not building, in order to starve demand and keep the prices high'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government sold off all it's social housing to buy-to-let landlords'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so rent goes up'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'you see? that's why I said you should only own it while you use it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'it's a static stupid system'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'buy to let is using it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The end game of "own if you use" is that the government owns everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just saying, evidently, it's not TOO difficult/expensive to own land, if no one is selling.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Their ownership persists, cuz they'll always be using it "leasing" it to you'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scrap it, scrap a lot of the rules on zoning permissions'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... I'm finding it increasingly difficult to believe you country is that screwed up... how'd they ever get an empire?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let the housing market fall'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the enemy had spears, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'empire?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we had artilliary, rifles, and cavalry'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be like invading a country with tanks when all they have is lancers'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hey, some of them had guns!'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e germany vs poland 1939'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'you mean like iraq and afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(and a completely corrupt govt)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'wait, the USA lost to vietnam on those circumstances..'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'didn't help that chinese generals were busy looting the armories and selling off their artillery for scrap at the time of the opium wars, I suppose...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the pre-WWWII Poland government disarmed the populace (and somebody said: so the jews may be safe ?) '
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cia put mao zedung into power'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was bright of them'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'debate the CIA seems to initiate and assist a lot of later disasters'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they're good a screwing things up'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'False-flagging and agent-provocation is their job'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let's hope they're on you're side, but you know already they're not, they're on their side'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck with the Arabs, by the way. Some one made them cross at you for some reason - you might want to nip over there and have a word'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some toerag from Israel probably made that film to drag USA into it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'the mental-retard acions of the CIA may be due to the fact that religious-fundamentalist mental-retards are giving orders to the CIA'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People are complaining they were tricked into the video'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'Arabs are weird'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know that presidents don't control the cia'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Truman realized that after he created it'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'foreign intelligence services is largely a-political, in the sense there's little direct control by government, and it's policies continue across government'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'George "read my lips" Bush was in the CIA'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is why obama couldn't close guantanemo and pull out of afghanistan despite promising to in his pledges'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same reason int he UK we're getting laws so taht police/intelligence services record every email/website visit/search everyone does'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without a warrant'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is why coppers have stop/search powers without the need for good reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Already had that here with Patriot Act 3.0'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, is why you can have your guns confiscated for any form of alcahol or drug offence'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's no free speech anymore - there are "protest zones"'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'why not, right? good citizens shouldnt fear the govt/cops.. right? right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regardless of whether you're charged or not'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so Tigernuts, what are you going to do about that, other than whimper'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'being a tiny country, our leaders seem to have a firmer grip on our agencies...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not my country'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll have to sort it out yourself'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'hey Zela, that which you said about brazilians... care to elaborate?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally? i'm going to fort up and watch people suffer until they're sufficiently aware of what's going on themselves'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a documentary stated that half the south american rain forests are gone'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'interestingly, free speech intended to sabotage the country is fine in america, as long as it bashes muslims. Protest inequality in the streets, and you get pepper sprayed and stuff...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'oh, yeah... I understand now'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'unfortunately its true'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Which doc?'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'that is a lot of rain-forest ecocide by abominations and their supporters'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I think its a lot more than half gone, actually'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the rain forests were so important, they're have police and army down there patrolling that, not giving people tickets for txting, or harassing people with a spliff, or prosecuting mothers for letting their kids play outside, or prosecuting peopel for having vegetable gardens, or jail people for having a run-off pond ont heir land'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No money made off of preservation'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No doubt'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '731'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The police are revenue agents, not public servants'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they're certainly not there in role as peace officers, to protect people and their property from the misdeeds of others.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'the police is the mechanism for the reproduction of the status quo'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Police in the U.S. are not required to protect you'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I had a police officer just sitting on my porch at 3am in the morning once'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they do not fulfill that role, we should dispence with them'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The power is attractive to bullies who want to join the Brownshirt hit squad'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They'll always be someone eager to join'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess so, just like the TSA attracts paedophiles and defrocked priest kiddy fiddlers'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, and fat sweaty guys and big lesbians'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fat ugly dungaree sort that see men and vile subspecies'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'you seem like a nice comprehensive guy'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'easy to get along with'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we have a govt agency (supposedly) overseen directly by the PM, that's supposed to keep a close eye on the police and govt for corruption and abuse...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'such things here are government quangos and therefore always likely to side with the powers'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's important for the anti-corruption guys to be directly under a (the) top leader, so that they're directly responsible if the job's not getting done right.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our lot are far far far better hiding corruption like that in house'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's no separation of powers here'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the corruption situation gets worse, fire the PM at the next election, since he's in charge, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're then into party system problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if the party wins, can't be PM without a seat in parliament...'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Here, our candidates are hand-picked so we spend our time arguing amongst ourselves while overlooking the fact the candidates are on the same team'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All our presidents are related - they keep it all in the family'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh, our current PM is a son of the first (although the second was unrelated)'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't see the problem if the functionality is there'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Herbert Walker and Dubya are something else'
T3/r7/2012-09-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given how well his kids are doing in school, I can't help but wonder if they're aiming for the position too...'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'school confiscates rosary beads claiming they were "gang symbol"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'teh Iesu-13 gang'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ46ZkJY8oo&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Heya Tiggy !'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Muppet song ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Atheists, by definition, do not believ in a god. Just clarifying.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'as opposed to agnosits - define those guys Rann ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'not quite true -- atheists do not believe in any god -- that is, as an atheist, there are lots of gods I don't believe in, not just one'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Agnostics are people that say that they don't know if a god exists.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You can be a agostic theist or a agnostic atheist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some "atheists" do not believe in the gods of religions that condemn their sexperversions  (evil grin)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right, Swalec.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the original definition was more subtle than that -- an agnostic was some who thinks the answer is unknowable'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the true classification og agnostic is either your version butthe classic version is that God is unknowable ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, that sounds more correct, Swalec.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'an "agnostic theist" is not a genuine agnostic'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it is an important distinction -- as an atheist I sometimes get accused of having faith that God does not exist, and this is not true'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'please read " the cloud of unknowing" for further ref '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the distinction between atheism and agnostism is not one of certainty of knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I also recommend "the god delusion" by richard dawkins'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gah, richard dawkins'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'of course, these days, I generally prefer not to describe myself as atheist because I don't want to define myself in terms of fairies'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a guy who needs a gag'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so I call myself someone who is free from religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'decides to wait until the synopsis comes out (not even going to read the Crib notes)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'because he doesn't agree with you, tiger?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'richard dawkins, the science community's largest bigot'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has nothing to do with what he says but the way he says it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'because he's an irritating git, because he is smug and because he is married to Lalla Ward, subject of many a teenage fantasy'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I like him for all those reasons.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you mean he's a paedo?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'yep, a lot of "fairies" and "tinkerbells" are "atheists"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Except I have no idea who Lalla Ward is.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Google will tell you'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'is too lazy to google'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'richard dawkins is no better than islamic extremists in terms of holding militant, bigoted, and often close-minded and one-sided views'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I like smug gits. We need more of those.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'by "teenage fantasy" of course, I mean people who are now in their forties but who were teenagers when she was on the box'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'with one important distinction, Tigernuts. He does actually have evidence on his side. I think that this is important. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure, dawkins is an anti-theist. I think he has good reasons for it, and I agree with them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually it's not, swalec, because he's applying scientific principles to something that is nothing to do with science'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '"and in the beginning God created the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like saying "This performance of a song is great because it fulfills scientific rules a b and c'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'nothing to do with science? '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's a theist view, Tiger. I don't agree with that view.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ugh - too late in my window does this occur - I will participate next time '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'But if theists kept their faith to themselves, I would agree. But they don't, so we must fight against the insanities of religion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'religion constantly speaks on issues where science is a far better way of finding out the answers. To say that the two talk about different things is, I think, not really supportable'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could argue the same of government, ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"Lalla Ward" almost sounds like a Doctor Who companion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sorry, I'm not an anarchist, like you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'there's a coincidence, Xyliz'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree that religion should stay out of government, and vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Of course it should. That's the law, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In civilized countries, that is.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trouble is, all those people who rally against religion for that reason, are the exact same people who seem to think it's fine for government to be interfering in every facet of peoples' lives'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're confusing religion with dogma'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which makes them hypocrites'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no, it's not. There is a law about it in some countries but not others'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a law about what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'religion and government being separate'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That was the reason for the 'civilised countries' qualifier'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'largely irrelevent, modern societies owe a lot of the laws and moral compass to the combined weight of religions and cultures going back into history'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what religion is'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The US is in theory secular, but not in practice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and it's not hypocritical to suggest that government should be involved in peoples lifes but religion should not'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'religion, culture and governance are inseperatble in history'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sweden is pretty secular, both by law and in practice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Dunno about other countries...'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you try to pretend any different, you're deluded'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'in my country, state and religion are closely intertwinned'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I'm sorry, Swalec.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Government exists, but religious deities do not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people who follow richard dawkins don't even understand the role religion has played in the development of society over the ages'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'however, in practice, religion has relatively little influence on politics. Compare this to civilised countries like the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and why'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'religion was a great source of wisdom at a time when purely visual observation and speculation was the only way to learn about the world.  Now we have science the time has come to let that go.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'therefore they fail to learn the lessons of religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them, as we can see from all the WARS and FINANCIAL COLLAPSE int he world'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so take your richard dawkins, shove it up your arse and get it and your stinking thieving warmongering government out of my life'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, Dawkins comes from a country where historically, religion sectarianism lead to centuries of fighting, burning and bombing'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr pats Tigernuts on his head.
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nice way to combine two completely different issues. By nice, I mean stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Disprove religion with science'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ideologically, they are the same issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Give me a proof, for example'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the real world isn't neatly comparmentalised'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything is linked'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No need, DosseT, it's up to religion to prove its view.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Here's the awesome thing - I don't need to prove religion is wrong, religion needs to prove it is right'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're talking about dogma'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'not really -- government should be based on democracy, while religion is largely based on revelation and authority'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Not religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether religion is right or wrong is irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Religion begets dogma, but dogma is not static'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's perfectly sensible to say "I think government is good, religion is bad"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You think the ability of the US government to motivate and mobilise their country against the World Emirates isn't nearly entirely based in and of religious differences?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'DosseT, the moment you provide proof that the universe wasn't created by a giant, flying, invisible spaghetti monster, I'll provide proof that your religion is similarly incorrect.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong straw man'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'the xtian right in the Us is a Major voting blok imo ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Not at all.  Pointing out the absurdity of requiring science to provide a negative proof of your religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Straw man is based on an "incorrect analogy" - please indicate the incorrect analogy or stfu'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'minority these days, tzad'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm a "science/logic" person, anyways'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Lol - christian white is still the majority in the US, whatever the 'war on christianity' nuts claim'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prove we're not in a black hole in a black hole in a black hole'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Saying science can test this and that has no effect on what is'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'psychology has validated a number of Buddist meditation tequineques - lol .. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'big difference between right wing xian and nominally xian'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK is nominally xian majority'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's simply an algorithm applied to glean information, whether true or not'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'active xians less than 5%'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I say disprove religion, simply because I can't'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'which is an interesting definition of "majority"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'As I said, I'm a science/logic person'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'enjoy guys - will participate in thsi s next time '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you can't disprove religion because most religions don't have a well founded question in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'faster and simpler to prove that all major theistic religions are false and or fraudulent than to disprove that the universe was created by a God'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How can you prove that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Again - no need to disprove ANYTHING.  I don't act on religion being correct simply because with the information I have at my disposal it is the less likely reality.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can prove existence of God about as well as you can prove the credibility of Democrat and Republican policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'all major religions are obviouislty defective'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: '- window closing - Tz nearly out '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The issue is people acting on a LESS likely reality as if it is CERTAINTY'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Dosset this is an old argument -- you cant disprove the theory that I am an invisible pink elephant. This is true, but does not actually lead to a sensible debate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'all major religions are obviously defective (unless a deluded believer of that religion)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Use of reductio ad absurdum arguments weakens your argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'all religeous symbols are cultural clothing on a bast type '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Noone is making inane hyperbolic claims'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defective in what way? that implies you understand their purpose int he first place'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A magic sky fairy is an inane hyperbolic claim imo'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'ugh ok really out Tz - out - of deb chann ..........for now ........'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prove we're not in a singularity? You can't'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just like I can't prove God didn't create the universe'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Dosset -- I believe that "God created the world, and I can talk to God, so do what I say" is an inane hyperbolic claim'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Again - there is NO NEED TO DISPROVE.  Religion is possible, sure.  But it is highly unlikely based on the information we have.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How is living in a singularity not inane and hyperbolic?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A null hypothesis stands until disproved, Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't prove anything - simply fail to disprove'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'An untestable hypothesis can be ignored for practical work'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Vaki I have further information emperically proven :P next time :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Dosset there are any millions of null hypotheses'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i get the impression you're all extremists'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'exactly, a nigh-infinite'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And they will be eliminated based on the subject's perception/belief system'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That being said, why is the singularity universe more "rational" than the flying spaghetti monster universe?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I have a choice - I can take the instructions given to me by a book, and act on them as required to get into heaven, or Valhalla, or Nirvana, or whatthefuckever.  OR, I can live my life as I see fit, enjoy myself, aid my fellow man, and live for THIS life, not some hypothetical, unprovable, unknowable OTHER life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'branding people as "extremeist" doesn't really help -- it depends where you think th emiddle is'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so in doing so you're going to dictate others what to believe and what not to believe?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that what you're saying, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, it's your prerogative how to live'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How you choose to live doesn't change reality'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Believe whatever you like - but don't indoctrinate your kids to believe that, and fuck off with your religiously motivated laws.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I can live my whole life and never see an apple.  Doesn't me apples don't exist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'rather'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'lol I choose a way to live my life too Vaki - yet you disapprove of my life ?  '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is a religious motivation for a law any more or less valid than any other motivation?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, Tigernuts, because religion is nonsense'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is not an answer'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'this is an important distinction'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the other reasons are also nonsense'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're talking about dogma - ideologies that are rewritten and changed by man'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'dogma is not the religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'soz - not equiped for this mission '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because the reasoning behind them does not stand to mundane reasons.  Base your laws for the benefit of society, not the benefit of the soul.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'how humans choose to live their lives does affect the surface of the planet'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes it is -- the idea that I should, for example, not be able to buy a book on sunday because of your imaginary friend is still'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is exactly what religion IS vAKIEH'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'is a perfect example of a man made dogma swalec'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at the history of religions and that's what you will find'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'because religious motivations for laws only force your views on other'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Find what? Burn the gays? The fuck did they ever do.  Women must cover themselves lest they tempt men? Why?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Again, man made dogmas'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Dosset, dogma IS the religion - I am an atheist, so there really is no difference to my mind'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Don't eat pork. Close on Sunday.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The WHOLE lot is dogma, because the whole religion is past down by people'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'dosset made a valid point'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Gregor give me an example of Dogma not made by man'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Okay Gregor.  Please lay on me the divine truth then. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jail people for smoking a plant, jail people for having sex with a 15yr old'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jhav nods at Swalec.
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'if the law can be justified by you religious tenet its all ready a rule you as a believer should be following do you really have to force the hangup on all others in the form of a law'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jail people for not having paid a government extortion payment'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arrest people for having a garden, for collecting water, for not having a vaccine'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'Heh, like you'd be on this channel if you were interested in "divine truth". The irony tickles me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'arrest people for not filling in a form'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'People not getting vaccines endangers others.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'balloeny, Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tested and proven scientific fact.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Tigernuts, I think you might enjoy reading the most recent few strips of the Illustrated Guide to Criminal Law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'Greg I'll be back :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only in a very very small subset of vaccines'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'actually, Tigernuts, the evidence on this is clear'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'MMR'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Or are you one of those autism-from-vaccines fucktards?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'male sodomists pollute the psychic -- hence religions guided by the heterosexual deity disapprove of male homosexperversions'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, i'm one of those "flu vaccines are a vehicle for pharmaceutical companies to make a fortune with little or no benefit to the public" people'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'On that note, disprove that dangerous additives to a vaccine causes autism'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Every time I read a sentence that you write Xyliz, I immediately wonder why.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a "Pharmaceutical companies have been found guilty in courts of faking efficacy data"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Why you wrote it, and why I read it.  Both are baffling.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Science can't disprove that adding squalene and mercury to your body is not harmful and correlates to autism'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you think things are so clear cut, you're deluded'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You speak of objectivity, yet remain mired in your subjectivity'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'you could perhaps consider something a dogma if it is teaching not remotely based on the religion's holy book. It's suprising the amount of religions that teach something in directly violation to their own holy book. In fact, pretty much all of them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Dosset, we cannot disprove that. What was can show is there, despite having been extensively investigated and looked for, there is not evidence that MMR causes autism'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Science doesn't disprove anything - unlike religion (and the Sith) it does not deal in absolutes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when free markets become government-directed monopolies, you get abuse'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this shouldn't be news to you'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Yes.  If you want to disprove anything, you need a mathematician!'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Prove wearing a cross does not cause irreparable brain damage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'trust me Jhav - I'm of the same opinion and I'm not 100% so I'm opting for a bedtime story with a nice furry mate rather than ball n all into this - but next time '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Nothing is proven, only disproven'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'for example, there was a stray comment about obeying the sabbath laws. If you read the bible in it's entirety you will see the sabbath is law given only to the israelites.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'or failed to disprove'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'when capitalism dictates to democractically elected governments we get abuse'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'prime example of teaching that does not conform to the holy book it is supposed to be taken from.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Right - but when making decisions you should base them on the MOST LIKELY possible outcomes'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Dosset, that's is a poor idea -- it is entirely possible to provide very good evidence for something. IN this sense, you can prove something. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'if you want an honest politically-incorrect debate, then Xyliz speaks  (or do you want a fag cakewalk)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The holy books? The ones written by men, discussed by men, printed, translated, and read by men (not a gender thing, talking men vs deity here)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bring it, xyliz'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate PC'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yes, those books vakieh.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Nothing is proven'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people who say string up xians or muslims who in the next breath are calling foul if you say you're not gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'anyway, that's my God slot obligation over and done with. I will go back to killing things and cleaning the house'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Theory of Relativity stood for a while - now it's under fire'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'utterly bizarre'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'some people believe those books are inspired by God. I'm not going to comment. All I'm saying is that when a religion teaches laws which are directly contrary to that which is in their holy book, it is clearly man-made dogma.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And I say the whole thing is man made dogma'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prove it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'disprove it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I can't'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And you can't disprove that it isn't '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Then I win, as the religions say'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Now you're at an impasse which is broached only by acquisition of data'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Plucking an apple from a tree and turning it into apple sauce does not mean the tree grows apple sauce'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Such is dogma and the religion from which it stems'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'we are always at an Impasse, in that case. We could always get more data. This doesn not mean that we do not have knowledge now'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not so.  The data available indicates the view against to be the more likely.  Therefore, in anticipation of more data you move ahead in acceptance of the more likely view.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You are trying to say that the presence of apple sauce implies the existence of an apple sauce tree'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Or the presence of apple cider implies existence of an apple cider tree'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oi, i LIKE apple sauce trees'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'When in reality, man takes from something that IS, the apple tree, and fashions it as he will'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Such is dogma and religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'the problem occurs when you try and judge religion by the millions of people who don't follow the teachings/laws of their actual professed religion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'power corrupts, gregor'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could use the same analogy about "democracy"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'More like: I have 4 quarters of an apple.  They all fit together perfectly, only a sliver is missing on the join of 3 and 4..  Whilst it is indeed possible they all came from different trees, the most likely scenario is that they are 4 pieces of the same apple, and we are simply yet to find that last sliver.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'for example look at the crusades. Look at catholics fighting on both sides of the conflict in WW2. The bible clearly states "love thy neighbour".'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'no wonder religion is one of the biggest causes of problems in human history'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You know what - I am just going to go with my apple analogy and leave it there.  It perfectly sums up everything I am trying to say, so QED and I am out of here :-P'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Religion is a rationale to do whatever'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That people use it as a rationale does not render religion false'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'but if everyone on the planet were to follow that command. "love thy neighbour". "Do unto others as you'd have them do to you". Suddenly we have a system that theoretically could solve all mankinds problems worldwide.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'don't judge books by those who lyingly profess to follow them'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your example is merely a demonstration of Occam's Razor, which, if memory serves, was something to which you didn't subscribe'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it won't happen while you have people in power whose sole motivation is greed and oppression'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'a "problem" is the deliberately defective logic used by those debating (to attempt) to score ludicrous defective conclusions'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'anyway, thanks, just my 2cents, I'm going out for lunch'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Read about epicycle theory - continuous building upon a false premise with "scientific data"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'ah, another shallow debater leaves to go to lunch'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I like Gerald Celente'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'shallow logic points out incongruities and stops to go no further; deeper logic looks at the reasons for the inconguities'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'incongruities'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't beat a good sunday incongruity'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It only examines incongruities in the present - it does not look back and examine that which has been accepted as true'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ptolemy believed in geocentric theory'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They built off that, and developed epicycle theory (which is wrong)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The "science" and "testing" was there'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It was simply base off an already-accepted false premise'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not enough to say "science science test test", because the data which is accepted must be re-examined'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people confuse science with the 'studies' that governments rely on to push laws through'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're rarely scientific'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'incongruities from ambiguities'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'incongruities from inane assumptions'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How are they incongruous?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Saying "God doesn't exist because I can't see God" is as inane as saying "God exists because I believe God exists"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i say such questions are a distraction and irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'wrong Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The big problem, I would say, is that journalist don't have enough knowledge about science. They think an observational study can prove something. Same goes for government.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the least important factor about religion is the existence of God'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could remove God entirely and they would be as relevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Cop writes $50 ticket for child, 2, for peeing up against a lamp post'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'saying "God doesn't exist because I can't detect God (but keep looking)" is far less inane than saying "God exists because I believe God exists"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How is it less inane?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'incongruities from faulty comparisons'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a confirmation bias from your standpoint as a 3 dimensional organic creature which perceives by reflected photons'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If God is a higher-dimensional being, then no wonder you can't detect it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'To a simple mind, it makes sense: duh, I can't see it, ain't there'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US median income is now below 1967 levels, inflation adjusted'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Mathematical side note: higher dimensional object CAN be viewed from fewer dimensions'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Assuming they intersect the viewing hyperplane.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Can't comment much about that as I don't know, and string theory may be wrong, but I can't comprehend what an 8th dimensional reflection into the 7th into the 6th etc. "looks" like'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Course we can see the 3rd into the 2nd by making a shadow on the wall'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'science is based upon "if something is undetectable by any means, then that something (likely) does not exist (as far as science is concerned)""'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a reflection, it's a projection'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, projection'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Really Xyliz? How did we discover chemistry then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I can't see it, so I'm not breathing anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Science is not based upon the beliefs (of the deluded)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Science "is" and humans try their best to explain it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Humans get it wrong a lot'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Dosset, in your haste to debate inanely, you are missing the depth'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you have a merging of corporate and government powers, it's fascism'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'inconcruities from the shallow haste to debate inanely'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're talking to a "science" person - bullshitting doesn't work'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'who is the "science" person?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Dosset, you are too arrogant and wrong to be a genuine science somebody'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scientists view arrogance as a valuable trait'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you see it on this channel all the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How is if-I-can't-see-it-it-ain't-there been working as a general algorithm?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's not science - science questions the unknown to learn'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It doesn't seek to build the tallest structure on a foundation of sand'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tigernuts, I don't think that this is true, but it is true that many scientists are a little arrogant -- there is a good reason for it though'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'incongruities from shallowness and the inability to look deeper'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'as a scientist, nature kicks you in the ass so often that you need either a degree of arrogance, or insane optomism. Otherwise, you would just give up and not do something easier'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your original assertion was something along the lines of "God doesn't exist because I can't see him"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'and god exists because..?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'persistence is not arrogance'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I like to feel, personally, that I am on the insane optimism, but, of course, you milage may vary'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There is no direct proof'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just like there is no direct proof of a black hole'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Learn to be comfortable by learning through proxies'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'There are direct proofs of black holes though'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You don't see a black hole - you see stars converging'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'that isn't true, black holes radiate'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Hawking radiation?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'All information we have ever received ever is interpreted electrical impulses conveyed by our various sensor cells along nerve conduits where they are subsequently processed by our brain.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Calling information false because it is indirect is to call ALL information false'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Explain phantom pain'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Expectations in the brain'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You just said it occurred along nerve conduits i.e. stimulus'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'i.e. NULL data? What do I do with this? Might as well be pain'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think Vakieh is giving a straw man argument -- it's a version of what is called Stoves worst arugment in the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And exactly - phantom pain was baffling to the current state of science'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Before we learned how the brain works'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So perhaps we have a confusion over what is termed "science"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'there is proof that black holes exist -- whether that it direct or indirect is difficult to say -- I am not sure that "direct" has a clearly defined meaning, that's the problem. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The Straw Man argument is where you build up an analogy which is incorrect - then tear it down, and say because the Straw Man was false, so was the original concept'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'apparently Dosset is  oblivious to the fact that Xyliz reparaphrased Dosset's inadequate "no see god, then no god" into a more reasonable "no detect at all, then not there"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is perhaps the most accused logical fallacy, but almost never appropriately'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What does "no detect at all" mean?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'esl Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'not that - I mean your argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'why don't we start with listing all the evidence we have that god exists?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So if you hear stories/anecdotes/data that suggest God exists, does that change your "detection"? Or does a bias relegate it to trash, and not data'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'all that "god" evidence is "hearsay"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'well, Hearsay isn't evidence'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So does "no detect" mean "there was nothing", or "there was nothing that supports my standpoint"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that was rhetorical'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem is with this is that everyone's god appears different -- it's impossible to prove or disprove such an amorphus thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '"I saw god" - possible explanations: mental instability, lying, actually saw god.  Attach weight based on personal assessment of previous knowledge.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So a degree of subjectivity does enter and obfuscate things'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"no detect at all" is different to "no detect"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Subjectivity? No, assessment based on previous observations'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The assessment assigned will differ from person to person'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"no detect by any means" is different to "no detect"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What color is this? Red, fuschia, rose, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Color blind might say green'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Doesn't change the inherent state of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Red is still red no matter what a color blind say'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's the point'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'colour is a subjective measure, yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Perception is not reality'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it's defined by its wavelength not by some subjective perspective'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'By that argument all data no matter what is subjective - it is all processed by a person, and applied explanations based on prior knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'indeed, there are two things, the spectral properties of light, and colour which is a perception of the former'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'in Science, hearsay evidence is only "admissible" when there is a current independent verification of that which waas hearsaid'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Data is lost. People lie. It's made up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Eratosthenes knew the earth was round in 200 B.C.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'in 15th century, they thought it was flat'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How did that happen?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So give up and go home? What is your point?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'The church had everyone killed who said it wasn't flat'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just cuz so-many-other people agree doesn't mean it's right'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Science isn't well-I-saw-it-and-they-all-did-too'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's something that simply exists, and we stumble around trying to discover the truths'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Dosset is seemingly oblivious to the semantic difference between "actuality" and "science" '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Observe. Hypothesize. Predict. Test. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'perhaps you mean "scientific method"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'When I say "science", it means that which is'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Perhaps you mean "that which we believe"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The scientific method is the only knowledge gaining process which I recognise.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"science" is what scientists (and humans) use (to attempt) to describe "actuality"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'We share different semantic views is all'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"science" is a (human) description of "actuality"; "science" is theories and is semantically different to "actuality"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ultimately, a human perception of actuality does not impact the actuality'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'even that doesn't appear to be true Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So if X does not Y because Z, does not mean that it holds true in actuality'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'perception of wave forms and all that jazz'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Double slit?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Dosset is attempting to use faulty adulterated semantics'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '(english second language) Dosset'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If we have observed that x = y for all known values of z, it is reasonable to assume that upon a new value of z x will still = y.  Doesn't make it 100% true, but it DOES make it reasonable enough to act upon.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'to steal a quote "I think you will find it's a bit more complicated than that"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If you drop a ball, it falls down.  You never know for 100% certain that it will fall down the next time you drop it - it might even fall up.  But it reasonable to assume it will fall down.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'a priori vs. a posteriori'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How does this play into disproving existence of God?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pulling out latin phrases to indicate logical fallacies only works when you use them correctly, fyi...'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And have we not got it into your head yet it is not about disproving?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A priori is something inherently true; a posteriori is based on empirical evidence'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'you can't disprove it, that's the catch'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And in your example, if I am doing a handstand and drop a ball, it falls up'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'All relative'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"A priori" is something "assumed" to be true beforehand '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Presume may be a better word'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'not if i disagree with the presumption'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It is simply carry-over knowledge, which may or may not be right'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'While the latter is knowledge observed now, whether right or wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"may or may not be" is too ambiguous in dounle meaning to be an academic "a priori"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That is a reference to, in your terms, how the science matches the actuality'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'having something a priori is jus a matter of setting variables, each experiment must focus on individual problems to be effective'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If the a priori is wrong, though, the experiment will be wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'i.e. epicycles'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but considering individual experiments in restricted selective circumstances and the abusing the results by extrapolating into the wider world is wrong, but happens all the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'unfortunately yes, but that would be a different matter.. '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'biggest crackpot pseudoscience guilty of this are: Economics'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and climate change)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's something circulating here about organics being bad for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, that study written by the same guy who was paid by tobacco firms to claim that smoking is good for you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'that's how we do science, we would need to be demigods to experiment with the whole spectrum of variables (which is close to infinity)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the study that explicitly excludes consideration of the herbacides in growing those crops?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Living kills more people than anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Ban life!'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"(even) If the a priori is wrong (though), in some cases the results of experiment may not necessarily be wrong"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'tiger, while I fully agree with you, the best way to counter that would be to do another study considering those and show that the previous one was wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's why they do the study at Stanford'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They use the weight of badge and station to influence J-type people (most people are J-type)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Nissim, that's when government and media abuse everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Government supports only the science that perpetuates their policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Big Media tends only to push science that government want them to'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'yeah... and there's the loop'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gerald Celente: (Politicians) These guys are out of their minds, and they're running your lives'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '(errors from the faulty logic assumptions by those that talk too much without proof-checking the errored nonsense they attempt to babble)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my fact checking service > your fact checking service'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides, there is no fact checking for ideology'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'faulty logic assumptions from cliches'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Your initial premise was God doesn't exist because I can't see him'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'well, sometimes we just speak our minds, that's cool too'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fact check this: I don't like the taste of Strawberries'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm a former atheist, so I understand your side of the argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Maybe you hadn't realized that'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he might have realized it, he hasn't realised it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there's his logic flaw'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some USAmericans are extremely logic illiterate when they speak, especially the liar politicians'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'prove it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"former atheist" -- that is a laugh'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong words coming from one professing science'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'I think above all we should respect each one's individuality, or else it's very hard to discuss'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'at least to have a healthy interesting discussion'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthy is a matter of perspective'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: '"former atheist" was likely a "lacadaisical atheist"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'right. oh well.'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No, it was a rational atheist for all the "science" reasons'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthy debate for a lot of things, for me, comes from understanding things from a point of view of personal freedoms/liberty'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'by healthy I mean we try not to do personal attacks'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and deriving understanding of behaviour'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthy debate as a factor of people jumping up every other sentance saying "prove it" , or "cite sources"'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't helpful or relevent if you're talking about ideology'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'if you're talking about me, I actually said that just to throw his own argument at him'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is also why I don't debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, not you'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know the culprits'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'DosseT care to share with us why you quit being an atheist?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Science'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'ah, faulty logic interpreting faulty science results in renewed religious beliefs'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I learned this, and that evidence changed my faith'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Anything else Xyliz?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'some (not mentioning names) are likely decades from approaching where a genuine antitheist is (not mentioning a particular name) -- xchan '
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'faulty science results are not the sole responsibility of the individual who acquired them, but also of the worldwide community that accepted it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I started as one, so it'd be full circle'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'Nissim, not sure that observation applies to the reasons for renewed religious beliefs'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Maybe you should give the circle a rn'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'run'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're not ready to be pulled out of the Matrix, Xyliz'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'It doesn't, actually I didnt understand what you say... it applies to you repeating that faulty results thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'said*'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'For all your talk of science and evidence, you wouldn't parse the data'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'also, xchan? what the hell?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'i oscillated in a narrowing direction until arriving where i am - (another xchan)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Nissim: 'can you tell me what xchan means?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'teflon non-stick cookware linked to heart disease, study shows :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yea, it comes off'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'BPA in plastics a bigger concern'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'new toilets will wash you with water because you can't be trusted with toilet paper'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and because your toilet needs to cost 20 times as much and be dependant on electricity and warranty service contracts)'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Prolly because of the fluoride and estrogen in the water'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dollar dropped 5% vs the gbp in the last month'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"The Revolution Will Be Televised" is a very good comedy show running on BBC3 right now suggest you guys watch it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yemen based branch of Al Qaeda urged Muslims to step up protests and kill U.S diplomats'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the CIA won't be happy with that - their slaves are off the reservation'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Electricity in France set to rocket in price after Frances Hollande outlines 'green' energy policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the creek bit, southeast of the start of the area and through the custom exit'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Libyan official warned USA 3 days before attack, Libyan president has no doubt consulate attack was preplanned months ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the US narrative, it seems (fairly to state "as per normal") is falling apart'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'stop playing the game by there rules. make up new ones that are way cooler and get everyone to follow those'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wish the American intelligence services would realise that the reason they keep getting 'found out' and the reason even when they're not directly 'found out' that so many conspiracy theories spring up pretty quickly is because LYING takes a lot of effort and skill, when you lie and cover-up at a global scale, even the smalled mistakes will catch you out'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK intelligence services either don't lie so much, or are considerably better at it'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i don't condone either'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zanbone: 'all theories are just 1 main one the rest are parts to the puzzel or distractons'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you guys realise how screwed you are yet, with the hobson's choice?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, i'm sure all that printing of fiat currency the Fed are about to do with the expressed purpose of keeping property prices high will help devalue everyone's savings'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and put the price of everything up'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder where gold will end up by friday close'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US credit rating down to AA with negative watch'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Abortion?'
T3/r7/2012-09-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, it's too late for you :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US dollar at a 7 month low, mmmm'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Great time to sell TPs. Or buy? I'm bad at these things.'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you're one of the richest 5%, it's bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'price of everything will go up, except your wages will not'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what happens when criminals are running your central bank and finance systems'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'that has been happening for a while now tiger'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, since the 70s, but with venom since the early 90s, and accelerated since 2008'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ronda nods at a tiger shark.
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'hahaha'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to be a prepper :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'prepper?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not heard of the term?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'not really'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'care to enlighten me?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone who is prepared for extreme events, anything from financial meltdown to physical disaster'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'ohh i see i get it'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'thanks'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the most immediate likely thing is war in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which will probably lead to a surges in energy/fuel prices'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'then again, there has always been war in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'availability problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not like this'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the danger this time is, unlike previous instances, USA is picking on someone with some capacity to fight back'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'remember the end of 70s'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russia and China have already said they won't stand by and let it happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'ohh tiger wanted to ask you '
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're lucky, nobody will starting throwing nukes about'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'this thing they saying the americans have, the antena that cause earthquakes is it for real? '
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like pseudoscience balloney to me'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'the physics explanation of it can be real, oh you havent heard?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i see'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heard reference to it, didn't seem credible at the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm a physicist'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts coughs loudly.
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'yea i read like 10 diff explanations, can be real but im not sure ohh you are and you think is not real or you trolling'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, definitely not real'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'thanks'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'have to work then cya later'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'were the sinking refugee ships to australia, accidents, and is there really a asylum island?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Australia is an ayslum'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just curious, i know not everybody's evil, but immigrants are a good way for installing sleeper agents and stuff too, i don't think they keep a close enough eye on stuff sometimes, otherwise reporters wouldn't be afraid to report'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hmm. You could swear SnailBot Anaristos has been here just a second ago. You wonder where he went ...
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like that guy in california who made a video seen by nobody until they started rioting across the ocean and 1000 miles of desert, he's hiding for his life now - cause america's border's aren't secure or else immigration doesn't keep an eye on whether or not americans are coming to america'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'doesn't seem very right to me'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'is accepting immigrants to preserve freedom more important than preserving freedom?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'otherwise why would he be hiding, because somebody across the desert and 1000 miles of desert ordered somebody in america to kill him?'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'obviously not an american then is he, claims to be though'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'ocean*'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'christians would have killed nearly a whole generation for blasphemy if they took their religion like islam does'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'only reference to punishing people for blasphemy is at the last page of the book of revelations though, where they will have their names erased from the book of life - but not by humans'
T3/r7/2012-09-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'thou shalt not isn't what you should do if somebody does'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything here ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Maths professor suspended for handing out Obama pledge cards in class'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wasn't me'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DHS purchases 200,000,000 more rounds of ammunition including for sniper rifles'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US administration caught creating computer viruses targetting systems in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the romney video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnB0NZzl5HA&list=UUbWB33FQvFiV0Pq9Calkgzw&index=14&feature=plcp'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that the one where he says obama voters won't vote for him because they tend not to pay tax?'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but without the "tend"'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'statement of the obvious, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poor/lazy people will vote for the guy that gives them freebies?'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'funny thing is, retirees lean republican'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'middle/upper classes vote for low taxation'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same is pretty much true here in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd think so, but for some reason, a lot of poor americans vote for the one who wants to screw them'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though all the parties are largely the same now'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well thanks to the system, that's both of them'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is likewise true here'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while the democrats do pretty well with the educated middle class...'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the marks? no doubt'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Labour did here, too, until after 12 years they finally realised they'd been taken for idiots'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and what's with that false equivalence... one side tries (and often fails), the other thinks you are a loser.'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now we have voter apathy instead because they know it doesn't matter the colour in charge, they get screwed'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because you guys don't pay enough attention as a group'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you were more persistent in voting for your interests, you're much more likely to get it'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't work in our system'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only way you're going to get the 60% of the vote needed to get a third party in is for the system to totally collapse'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and personally i'd be happiest if the country broke back up into kingdoms at that point'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'the kingdom of tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, santher, anywhere where i'm not subject to a life of serfdom and poverty where dreams and aspirations are not achievable'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is modern day UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'two ways - 1. Short way: Electoral reform, use instant runoff. 2. Long way: Keep up the pressure and consistently vote for the less-bad one.'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'two ways for what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'the long way got us to where we are today'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'I'm rather fond of porpotional representation, myself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Porportional, rather'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2 doesn't work, and 1 already got voted down'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '2 works, just that voters aren't patient enough to pull it off. And are easily lied to...'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2 does not work'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2 is what leads nowhere except circling the drain'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you consistenly select for the better one, they'll improve. The problem is selecting for the better one...'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'why is all the pressure on the voters, shouldn't the people you're voting work for it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'm all for opting out of government'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they should, but that's only in theory...'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in practice, they work to get more votes'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why the votes need to lead them in the right direction'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't need to earn votes, when they can just buy them'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but instant runoff would solve that problem, of course'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'all else fails, rig the election'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let them nuke each other into oblivion and hope there's enough people and land left to start over'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan on the anti-American protests against "Innocence of Islam": "What I think is happening here, is we are projecting weakness abroad. President Obama has these reckless, devastating defense cuts." - Paul Ryan not only voted for those cuts, he actively helped write them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if you wanna save money you gotta spend as much as you can.'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Paul Ryan, upon graduating high school, won the "biggest bootlicker" prize'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should tell you everything you need t know'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the libertarian party wins 5% of the popular vote in november, it gets 90million of federal money to fight the next election'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so ffs, vote for them'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Why on earth do you crazies give parties money for election fights?'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't, i'm not american :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most countries do, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Why? Of course, I know the guys make laws about their own pay, but still, how do they justify so gross a misplacing of money?'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop them collecting billions in lobbyist money to pay for all those events and adverts'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so looks like USA has now riled China with their missile defence shield. Way to go, Obama, piss off the two other superpowers in the world, why don't you'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'china is pissed off at everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it's not'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'china is a mature nation, they won't get pissed off and attack until they know they can win'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Given the choice between (a) parties being financed by large corporations and (b) parties being financed by gov't subsidies based on number of votes, I think it should be relatively clear what is best if you want an actual democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd imagine japan and china will square up to each other before long'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd imagine japan and china will square up to each other before long'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if not, china will just bankrupt japan'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I rather liked the suggestion that China should dump their JGBs'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jgb?'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'it might even trigger a systemic crisis, which would greatly amuse me (and kill millions..)'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'japanese bonds'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'china has 230bn or so of those'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll hurt japan, but won't do a great deal'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Killing millions sounds cool'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'in my opinion, donations to politicians should be illegal, or as a minimum, publicly disclosed'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kinda hoping Russia steps in in Syria'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially if the west keep supplying weapons'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama will have the country bankrupt within 4 yrs, you'll all be on foodstamps, or in prison, or in a prison camp'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'romney, on the other hand, will have you at war with the other half of the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold holding steady at $1770'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DHS bought another 200 million bullets just this week, including a serious number of sniper rounds'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'those bureaucrats need their exercise, nothing to see here'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there to shoot anyone who doesn't worship Obama as god'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given the number of mass shootings lately, I'm not surprised'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not surprised that DHS has ordered 1,400,000,000 rounds of ammunition this year?'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't train marksmen with blanks'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't train a bricklayer by buying every brick in the country'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That's only 6k bullets per employee'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either they believe they're about to get invaded, or they're gearing up for civil war'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when it comes down to it, those are the only two credible possibilities'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'getting sick of hearing that america is headed for another civil war, get it over with already :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there won't be civil war here, nobody has guns'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i'm sure plenty will surface should the people need them'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'burying your head in the sand won't make it go away'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I learned in organization theory that 30% of problems go away if you wait long enough..'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'along with 100% of opportunities'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Junk Food is now a National Security Threat'
T3/r7/2012-09-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Legendary Gruagach: 'I can fly, prove me wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Will, if China becomes democratic it will be the first nation to do so :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'anything going on here /? '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes there is'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no there isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you are really, wrong, because now there is'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, but that makes no sense'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'now there is :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'but what ? '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tzadkiel: 'something I wanna ask - how should I wear my hair for training - I'll not cut it '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, DOJ lists having a bumper sticker as terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think your government has gone a bit mental'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Honk if you are a good worker bee!'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yo don't want to be offending somebody's sensibilities with your freedom of bumper stickers'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people'll find anything offensive if they can'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why they banned those led-boards in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably just as well, else i'd be sending "Back off with the tailgating else i'll rip your head off and piss down your neck"'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i never drove in a big city before, must be a real pain in the ass'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is fine until you run into someone bigger than you'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'can't even use cruise control, just about 2 feet between cars, yikes'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cruise control is extremely uncommon here'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently human trials are about to begin on a compound derived from pot that halts a bunch of otherwise fatal cancers'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so potentially this might be as effective as cutting back on sugar?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or taking aspirin'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah?  just the other month they reported multiple times greater chances of cancer from pot, but yet sciencedaily claimed pot to be a anti-carcinogen with applications like you're saying'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pot doesn't cause cancer'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smoking causes cancer'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'good for them if they find one, i seen a stock market listed a few years ago which for .10c was a business developing things like you're saying from pot'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll never get to term because it'll be blocked by cunts in big pharma because it means their extremely expensive designer drugs won't be used to make them huge amounts o money'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'anything that causes inflammatory responses almost certainly causes cancer, heart disease and global warming'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'a stock*'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xantcha: 'you forgot impotence'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada goes, "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, because fertility is such a big problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'only if you are 2nd+ generation gmo-fed lab rat, I think'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact of the matter is that governments don't like pot'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't like it because it's the preserve of free thinkers'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Pot makes you think? :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporates don't like pot because it growable and therefore they can't make money from it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they don't like people using it because if they're using it, you're not paying them money for their products'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i guess big pharama is intimidating sometimes, i did read apparent accounts of austrians dying unexpectedly or scottish people, a mexican etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't know how real they are but, just something i keep in mind sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporate interests is why pot got classified schedule 1 in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'it wasn't the pharmaceutical industry that wanted to squash pot, it was the paper industry iirc'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, saric, and cotton'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'either way, "for the wrong reasons"'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but tinada was right, just eat your montsanto gmo foods, after all, it only caused massive tumors in 70% of the rats fed on them'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i got into a bit of a pickle at work today by suggesting we should ask for a 50% wage rise next april'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i don't got a problem with GMO foods as long as they are safe and there isn't a group of lawyers and lobbiests and hitmen who silence the people whod like to verify that'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'but if they're attacking natural foods for no good reason, yet still performing those actions then what are they, really?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I disagree with everyone'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'id on't have a problem with the principle of gmo technology, i have a problem with using it to produce herbicide-producing crops, or not testing it properly, or using it to create a monopolistic market posuition'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically, it's a technology that shouldn't be allowed in the hands of corporates'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so like democratic communism, that's alright'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i feel the same about critical infrastructure and services, which is why i'm a rubbish conservative'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they shoved through a new tax on people here and nobody even noticed!'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'got almost no press coverage, and what press coverage it received, they didn't realise it was a tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's astonishing how fucking stupid people are'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19649747'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i was kind of horrified or amazed or astonished at this documentary claiming that 4 offshoots of a nazi corporation (after ww2) and a few other corporations own the patents to like 75% of the human genome'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i guess in singapore they do alot of that, patent pending in america'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite believe it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'like what's the point, what kind of scientists are they?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i discovered the tree, therefore you can't'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently a small bunch of large corporate companies have been quietly taking over local infrastructure all over america'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'posing as local environmentalism under Agenda 21'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently arbitrary revokation of private property rights is becoming commonplace in the USA'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less of a problem here in the Uk because there's so little property, so what there is is too expensive to be owned by the serfs in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i could see that being possible, if that youtube interview with yuri bezmenov is anything real, he pretended to be a hippy'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'also, recently in the news in britain they say some cops are being charged with some kind of gross misconduct/rape for their undercover operations infiltrating environmentalists and stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you guys are coming up on the same tipping point that has already 'tipped' in many countries in europe, and where the UK is roughly at too'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, that goes on all the time in the states too, chemosh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most/nearly all supremicist attacks and thwarted terrorist attacks on US soil were perpetrated by FBI plants'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i remember reading that if an american finds an archaeological significant object on their property, they're required by law to report it, who can arbitrarily seize their property'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there hasn't -been- any genuine terrorist attacks in the US for 20 years or more'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same as there haven't been any in the UK since the IRA put down their bombs'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yes, that makes sense tiger'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i thought about that alot, especially with revelations like the winter hill gang/mafia in chicago and things like that, upper echelon marxist-leninism totalitarian stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all been perpetrated by rogue elements in various intelligence services in order to further their own goals/funding/foreign policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's been real in the past, apparently'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as 9/11 was, oklahoma, etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i have a hard time comprehending how america would attack it's own WTC and stuff though, i think that came from outside somewhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i never was big on trying to deny that at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally what i think is going to happen, what with all this clampdowns on freedoms/guns, the huge weapons caching of the DHS, the attacks on the 2nd ammendment, NDAA etc is:'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the economy will collapse, which you all know will happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'well it's easy when you realize that the us federal government is run by outsiders'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'the theory behind america hitting it's own WTC towers seems legit'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama will use it to declare martial law and abolish the States, rolling out the 'federal' central government as the sole government'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be civil war'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but not enough states will be able to resist'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'wow turned thIs channel on expectIng nothIng'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially be states like Texas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Kansas holding otu'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i did see a interview on history tv with a CIA agent who claimed to have informed the white house about 9/11 attacks 2 months prior, who was ignored'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Instead theres a serIous conversatIon about amerIca'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course they knew, chemosh, they even trained the 9/11 pilots on American airbases'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and directly after the attacks, they allowed Bin Laden's associates and family members leave the country'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im looking forward to the shIt hIttIng the fan'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? you're going to die'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'we all dIe eventually'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why i hate democrats - they do not value the constitution, so they're the people that will be going along with this'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and republIcans are any better?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the sort of people that will go along with -anything- provided they get their handouts'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you sound lIke FOX'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the original republicans are, meathole, not the neocon globalists that have taken the party over though'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think there should be a law against lobbiests for one thing, if a foreign country wants to display it's case to the democratically elected government, they shouldn't need to dictatorily hide their problems from the people who elected it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there won't be, chemosh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's just a pretty big loophole to a democracy i think'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democracy itself is flawed, that's why you were created as a republic'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah yeah, i'm thinking of a real government that i'd agree with more'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the whole amerIcan system Is flawed'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it'll remain so because you idiots keep voting for the same two criminal groups....'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the rabbIt hole Is deeper then It appears'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because it's not made by a rabbit'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Itll take a cataclysm to change amerIca'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, you're going to get that, lets just hope you're not all glowing as a result'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'whatever happens, Its better then the hell amerIca would become wIthout It'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't hold out much hope for humanity, tbh, i think we're all fucked'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'm canadian though, canada just goes along with america alot of the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so thanks guys, thanks for fucking up the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so they play their issues too on the news here, why i talk about it at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'lol tiger, as if europe didnt fucked it first'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was american global banks that did it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'american system has alot of potential, but has alot of loopholes like i said'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'amerIca dIdnt start the banks....'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'we just empowered them'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chances are, if Clinton hadn't repealed Glass-Stegall and mandated your banks to make crazy loans to peopel who couldn't afford mortgages, the 2008 crash wouldn't have happened'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you really had democrats dont you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'hate*'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the US hadn't attacked itself on 9/11 as a pretence to war in the middle east, you wouldn't have a volatile situation there with Russia and China shouting at us'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate everyone equally'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'clinton was such a faker... he one of the most murderous presidents ever, and sold your miltitary tech to the chinese'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which group's (collective) fault is it for resisting the democrats' attempts at improving regulations and fighting for liberty?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'more murderous then bush?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah meathole'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democrats fought for liberty?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure all the time, until certain group dragged them to the right'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'groups'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'my vIew, both partys are just 2 heads of the same beast'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i must have missed that through all the attempts to inflict central control on all the states, attempts to destroy the 1st and 2nd ammendments'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, they only did that to pacify the so-called "independents"'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who they figure wanted them to compromise with the republicans'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'republicans seem to personify national pride and fighting to keep the nation around, without thought for the unemployed or underpriveledged , who compose a significant proportion of america now, which see the democrats as a more immediate solution to their problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meatbag has the right of it though'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'meatbag? lmao'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'tha'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that thing Romney got heat for saying to his donors was the only honest (and true) thing i've heard him say all campaign long'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'agreed'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're the same because of people like you, who refuse their vision of liberty and insist on republican control...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'no proper mixes out there that i seen in my lifetime'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'wow sonshI...what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i think a mix might be deemed socialist though'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't instist on anything of the sort, Sonshi, not being American'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not you, people like you'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'americans'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lolwut'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'plenty of your kind in america...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people like me vote UKIP'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or Libertarian'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as appropriate for their country'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they've been hearing "compromise" "compromise" for so long they've abandoned their principles...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you have it wrong, i wouldn't compromise'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'so your agaInst compromIse?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the people might need to, and will probably not avoid, taking responsibility for their voting choices (or lack thereof)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't comporomise on the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'htat's the whole point of the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Its a lIvIng document'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'using corruption as considerable contrast to relative lesser sacrifice is common now, i think'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can say all you want about the constitution, but it's your actions - your voting behaviour, which is what speaks loudest'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my voting behaviour is drowned out by all the sheeple'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'weighing foreign issues, usually unneccessary in origin against your own freedom, which makes a little bit here and a little bit there seem like a acceptable negotiation'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who will get what they deserve, a long painful death of poverty and illness'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you and all the other millions like you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I hears so many spout the same conspiracy theories, the same talking points...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'what about the people lIke you sonshIm'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(hear)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'about what, sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'sonshI*'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'stuff like the democrats hate the constitution, etc. when you won't change your vote when they shift themselves more in favour of rights than their opponent'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you running on about?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ya, wtf'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would i vote for a party whom i don't agree with just because you're spouting lies about them in comparison to another party whom i don't agree with and wouldn't vote for?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people like me are rare in the US... most of the people like me in the US are foreigners. Given the sample in my dept, a guess would be maybe 1/3 are american?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometime tonight you might come to the point...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, there's nothing they can do that would satisfy you...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, there is'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lolwut'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'because anything they are doing you can dismiss as lies'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'what are you talkIng about? you sound the most unhappy'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can step back from all the measure that they have done that are in contravention of the constitution and states rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can promise to not ever EVER overstep them again'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everything else they do will still be subject to normal critique'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, which people then dismiss as lies'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dismiss WHAT as lies?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'fact is, when they compromise on rights, they get more votes from people who are happy that they are working with the other side...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'are you In a dIfferent conversatIon or somethIng sonshIm'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think he is, Meathole'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol, hes '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'blah'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'people lIke hIm are the problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people like him are very populace'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'too many people buying into conspiracy theories to fix the nation. Got to change that with education, but will they be educated?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'cant even comprehend what others are sayIng'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'why are you agaInst theorIes?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it used to be the case in America though that if you didn't like people like him, you could move to a state where there were much fewer people like him. Unfortuantely people like him believe in taking over everywhere and inflicting what people like him believe on people who don't believe in things like him'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Its extremely healthy to consIder all possIbIlItIes'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I've had it up to here with "obama is a kenyan muslim", "911 was done by the FBI", "NASA never sent anyone to the moon and is secretly funnelling money to the illuminati" or whatever...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'why?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but sonshi was a fake thing '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none of those are accurate'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'because you have IndefInIte prove all thats false?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's a waste of time to consider possibilities which are outlandish and easily debunked'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country doesn't have all this crap, I don't know how you guys managed to get this deep in it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'possibly because your government doesn't try and pull stunts when it's not capable of properly covering their backs'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'because you cant comprehend It, It should cease to be talked about?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'well i saw a documental that showed that they didnt had the technology to go to the moon at that time'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'misinformation is spread , sometimes intelligently, by the conspirator's themselves, to obfuscate any real scenario's that observers see'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but then again i wasnt there'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... you saw a 'documental', so it must be true?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'well bbc documentals are always true mate '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the abssence of evIdence Isnt evIdence of abssence'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... russel's teapot'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can tell an idiot/psyop very easily when someone starts trying to lump 9/11 and moon landing conspiracies in the same vein'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'canadian avril arrow rocket scientists worked for nasa after it went out of business'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'russell's, rather'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: '(avril)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no, but absence of evidence and another far more probable scenario is an indication as to which one is reasonable. '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they apparently went to the moon, that's alright'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'and the documental was about that we as humans didnt had the technology to go to the moon, thats what i said'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'at that time'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we did have the technology at the time, it was just expensive and risky'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as we have the technology to go to mars now'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have the technology to go to alpha centauri now'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/solarsystem/collections/moon_landing_conspiracy_theories'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'so just because one scenarIo Is more probable, we should Ignore all others?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and the most probable reason for 911 was that osama saw an opportunity, a vulnerability together with the right timing, and took it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Isad'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Osama was not involved in 9/11'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'thanks majic'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'Maybe you only saw part of the documentary, where they were presenting the conspiracy theories, and missed the part where they went through debunking them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'More like 9/11 came to pass due to George W. Bush's ineptitude.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the one thing that can be said about 9/11 that is agreed upon by the majority of all relevent experts:'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is the official government narrative is balls'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'maybe majic, will check it out'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He got alerts from the FBI/CIA (can't remember which agency) MONTHS on advance that Al Queda planned on ramming a plane or two into a major landmark and did NOTHING.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nanothermite?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'regardless of whether it was an inside job, or as a result of epic and serial incompetence ont he part of the different intelligence and defence services'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact remains'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'given that osama majored in econs, I wouldn't be surprised if he timed the attacks at the worst possible time, economically...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has been used to fuck up freedoms and liberties, and used as an excuse to murder millions of people world wide'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Millions?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that isn't a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'yeah, i thought that too sometimes, if there was going to be a direct link between osama and 9/11 that it would have been performed underneath of what they said it was - because he must have known his chances of survival against america were very low, not very prideful enough to have combatted a enemy who was only arresting some opium smugglers or similar - what all they were fighting for, this confusion tells me, sometimes, that there was most likely something else going on all along'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Yuna, more than a million people have died in Iraq alone as a result of western wars'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doing it right when tax cuts are passing/passed, it would inflict the most damage. Could be a coincidence though...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Afghanistan is headed towards that figure too'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'if it wasn't for america, afghanistan would have been russia right now, according to what i read, why would the afghanistan people hate america for preventing that'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it was done by americans, it would be caluculated to happen at the least damaging time for american business...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if it were nominally Russian, it would still be tribal and uncontrollable as it is now, CHemosh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I lIke how no one talks about the records destroyed In 911 and how convenIent the pentagon attack was'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'false flags have been used forever'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'majorIty of people are so narrow mInded when It comes to thInkIng of the global game...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and a large proportion of republicans still think obama is muslim. sigh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'what If he was?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a large population of AMERICANS, of either side, think Iran has anything to do with Al Qaeda'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's really no symmetry between the parties here. There are nice people on both sides, but one side has a lot more crackpots'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'wow sonshI, just wow'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you look at certain objective measures, like trust in govt...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aw, did we hurt your Teabagger feelings, MeatHole?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Neocons vs Communists'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which side will I pick? let's see now, oh, that's right NEITHER thankyou'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol hurt my feelIngs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'on both sides they tend to trust govt more when their side is in power, but the swing on one side is several times larger'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A majority of the inhabitants of some (all?) southern state are against interracial marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lmfao'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are we getting racist now, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'whered you get that Info?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A poll was released THIS YEAR (or last year, can't remember) where some backward state had a majority of respondents say "No" to interracieal marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there are a fair few places where they still believe that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let me try to dig it up'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher awes MeatHole with her obvious Porkness.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh wait, sorry. Let me rephrase that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'le sIgh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'frankly I believe that people have the right to believe what they want, although the government and any government-funded entities should definitely be nondiscriminatory'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '29% likely GOP voters (21 in Alabama) oppose interracial marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government shouldn't have a legal status for marriage, it would solve all the legal marriage issues out in one fail swoop'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'civil unions for everyone! :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Close to half of likely GOP voters in both states thinks Obama is a Muslim.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not even that, majic, irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(March 2012 polls)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah. It's a bit frustrating to defend the rights of people who all or even try to take away the rights of others...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'it's nobody's business who somebody elses marries, unless you get into beastiality'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/03/13/poll-many-southern-conservatives-feel-interracial-marriage-should-be-illegal/)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'that's what i think anyways, parents usually want their kids to be happy , don't they?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(though)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's not a who, that's a what.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'just cause your white or black doesn't mean you're happiness'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, it's not really irrelevant, since it automatically defines someone as next of kin/beneficiary/etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with that, chemosh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'in america, that's one of it's main purposes now'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unsurprisingly, 60% of the same asshats from Alabama do not believe in evolution.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'blah thIs Is gettIng derpy'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'nothing wrong with same-raec marriage but i don't see any point in preventing interracial relationships'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, Meathole, you can always trust Yuna to burst into a lost argument and wreck it with his wedge issues'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people go where people go'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: '100% of alabama dIdnt take a survey'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They're white Christian zealots. OF COURSE they oppose interracial marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'so how could you know what 60% thInk?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I rephrased it as LIKELY GOP VOTERS.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Read better.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you read better'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im sayIng surveya and polls are Inaccurate depIctIons of a communIty'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'survey*'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'so maybe marriage can be removed from government, and be a civil issue instead'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't even need a civil union'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sure. It's not like every single poll ever shows the same results for all of those things besides the interracial marriage thing because most polling organizations no longer poll about that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '60%, to some small error within a 95% confidence interval, most likely'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government doesn't need to recognise a partnership in that way'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'apparently it's obsolete in canada now'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you mIssed my WHOLE poInt sonshI'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, it's a handy one-stop low-cost documentation for 'this person is now my next-of-kin, parent to any children born of the union, inheritor of my estate, etc. etc.''
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, Tigernuts, you'd gladly give up all of the rights and responsibilities afforded to you by marriage?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im startIng to thInk your Incapable of understandIng anythIng I say...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'surveys can be quite accurate, given the right methodology'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can still have those responsibilities and rights should you so wish'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you so choose'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except you DON'T if the government rescinds all marriage laws.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can have a contractual arrangement'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and how is that different from a voluntary civil union?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'other than being drawn up by a lawyer and costing a lot more, of course.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'If you belIeve surveys are accurate, I have no hope for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No longer will you automatically have the right to visit your spouse (you'd need to file documents for that... that cost MONEY). No longer do you get to file joint tax returns, saving money. Adoption would cost more and be more complicated.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A whole lot of things would change. They'd be more cumbersome AND cost more money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not all surveys are accurate, but they can be quite accurate if well-designed and well-sampled.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you're anti-marriage?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, as far as I understand, you're basically saying either "I don't understand stats" or "when I say accurate, I mean 100% accurate!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's so good about that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i'm anti-marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im sayIng theres no way to effIcIently survey a populatIon on theIr belIefs'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's the strangest stance on any issue I've seen in weeks.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which doesn't mean i'm against other people being married'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not the whole population, no, but if you sample properly you can get a very good estimator.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'okay, I'm going with the first interpretation of your statements...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But you just said that it's good if we were to make it more cumbersome and expensive to get into long-time committed relationships.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can have a long term commitment to someone without a legal contract'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i agree with tiger there'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't say you couldn't!'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then stop implying it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I NEVER IMPLIED THAT!'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you have nothing to argue against'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ronda grabs some popcorn and sits back to watch the show.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said that you think it's good to make it harder and more expensive to have committed long-time relationships!'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'of course you can, but if you aren't legally their next of kin (which you aren't, without a contract) their family can prevent you from seeing them in the hospital'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find i said that governments shouldn't recognise marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'anti-marriage != anti-government recognisation of marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'this has already happened with a few homosexual couples.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'YES, little TigerNUTBAG.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ronda nods at Dispel Majic.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol whysomad yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In response to that, I said that the government not recognizing marriage would make it more expensive and cumbersome to have long-time committed relationships.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'To which you responded with "Good". Are we getting senile?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't disagree with fucking FACTS.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, it would make it more expensive and cumbersome to have long-term legally recognized relationships.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not fucking facts just because your mouth uttered them'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I just remembered why I stopped even TRYING to engage you in debate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they should recognise unions, no need for ceremony or anything, just stop by the relevant office and sign a couple of documents'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'they alw'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'because your dumb?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'always end up like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'relationships do not need to be legally recognised'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'breaking a union? Just stop by the same office and sign a document'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, yuna, your proclivity for personal attacks and relentless screeching don't make you very much fun to debate either.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you are hospitalized, your partner won't even have VISITATION RIGHTS unless you're in a legally recognized relationship of some kind.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'UNLESS you file for a living will (I think that's what it's called), which is cumbersome and costs money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'relationships do need to be legally recognized if you want to have visitation rights, parenthood of children established, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'just put them like next of kin and thats fixed'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I've visited friends int he hospital many times, and that isn't legally recognized...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'odd, i can go visit friends in hospital without being married to them'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'frankly I wouldn't even care if we called it 'designation of next of kin' '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can, because they aren't in comas, or their kin aren't blocking it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'le sIgh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You CAN, it doesn't mean you have a legal RIGHT to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'next of kin is far more arbitrary because it doesn't delineate a marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not if you've been specifically ordered by the next of kin to be kept out'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Unless you consider Facebook friends a legal designation *shudder*'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The hospital and/or family can bar you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would they bar you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ylias: 'off'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because they're fucktards? Who knows.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cos they don't like your relationship'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if your partner's family doesn't like you or your relationship'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, what happens if they fall SERIOUSLY ill and need surgery?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well yes, i guess that in a world full of people like you, that might happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, no one ever has had problems with their in laws.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The kind of surgery that needs an "OK" and signature from someone? Since you're not married, you can't make that decision. or the decision to pull the plug. or ANYTHING.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'never experienced it in my 35 years, and never heard of anyone that has either'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well like Majic suggests, you could designate a next of kin for that'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Is this a gay rights visitation argument?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that it matters when it comes to pulling the plug'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'yuna you keep sayIng the same thIng whIle mIssIng tIgers poInt completly'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Are you speaking from experience Yuma or just hypothetical, cause I got to tell you: some people here have lived through this and are hearing you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I've never experienced robbery in my life, and no one I know has either! There's no such thing as robbery. QED! I get it now!'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I don't care what we call it. I just think that two people should have the ability to say 'this is my other half''
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Schiavo case. Michael Schiavo had to fight for close to a fucking DECADE just to have the right to pull the plug on her and allow her to finally die.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DESPITE being her husband.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, majic, there should be no need for government to have the power to say "you cannot have THAT as your other half"'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'thanks for proven your poInts wrong?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'MeatHole, learn to read basic English or be quiet.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'oh then you should say you dnr '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've had no trouble understanding Meathole'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol more personal Insults please'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't say I had any trouble understanding Meathole, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'you are *'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Maybe you should learn how to read basic English as well.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the heck did you misread "read" as "write"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'yuna, why are you so damn unpleasant?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'criticising others' language skills isn't conducive to getting swaying people's opionions'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, the government shouldn't say 'you can't have that as your other half' :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Michael Schiavo had to fight for that basic right DESPITE being married to her. If they hadn't been married, his in-laws could've barred him indefinitely from seeing her.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'what the hell difference would it make whether he'd been barred when he was already in a relationship with someone else?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you took my advice, Yuna, his in-laws wouldn't be able to bar him'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'If they hadn't been married, they wouldn't be his inlaws.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no, they'd have been her parents :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go Remember November!!!  Tigernuts cheers him on.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and therefore, her next of kin'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, they'd be her parents and he'd be a fucking stranger.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In the eyes of the law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'thIs whole debate Is retarded'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think Yuna is taking gaffe lessons from Joe Biden.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'nothIng but mIsunderstandIngs'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, meathole, not like there's anything more important going on in the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not like the economy is collapsing and everyones' rights are being trampled on'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Tigernuts. Let's go back to yapping about conspiracy theories about 9/11.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'speaking of rights...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'There is a sticker "9/11 was an inside job" in the times square subway stop a few days ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'because your retarded marrIage debate Is better yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'That got removed pretty quickly :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, they don't like those for some reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, Majic. I do believe you're allowed to have pretty much anyone as your "Next of kin". It's just that if it's not a family member or spouse, you need to file a document for it and it costs a lot of money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if there was nothing to it, they wouldn't get so arsey about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I do love how people pull out the 'there are more important things'.  To the people involved, I'm guessing 'other things' were pretty fucking low on the priority list.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'as far as i know yuna at least in mexico dosent cost money'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right, yuna, I want it to be as easy as getting a marriage license is now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, try pasting a "the Holocaust never happened" sticker in Germany and see how fast it gets removed...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'does that mean there's something to it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, it costs money in SOME countries, like the U.S., AFAIK. Because, you know, EVERYTHING costs money in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'don't have a problem with their being a minor fee, just have a problem with it necessitating a lawyer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there's one slight difference between those two incidents, Sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sometimes people get pissed *because* there's nothing to it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'someone has to pay the fIler...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think that it IS as easy as getting a marriage license. It just costs money.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(which a marriage license also does, but still)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'LMFAO'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: '"but stIll" greatest lIne youve saId all day'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's annoying, though, is that it costs MORE money to file than a marriage license. Which is ridiculous.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What is wrong with your I's?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's just like if you keep yelling outside someone's house that their father was a hamster and their mother smelt of elderberries, and other insults all day long, the occupants are going to be somewhat mad...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i'd work for free if i had a place to stay and adequate freedom to do what i do when i'm not working'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im on a phone and It auto caps them lmao'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yuna, its free in some states in America to get a license to marry.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'money's preparation for the future mostly, better to have diamonds or gold or emeralds'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It is? Well, that would explain Las Vegas.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's probably some config option to turn that off...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't buy gems, chemosh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'i figured out how to make gold from a worthless mineral in greenland and a radioactive byproduct changing eachother :), they know how to make fake diamonds'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'probably, or you can get used to capItal I's everywhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'real things are still pretty good though, especially emeralds and other rare gems that're harder to clone'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Or we can make use of the handy dandy ignore feature :-P'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'people'll always want some of that'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'but then youd mIss all my awesome commentary'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold is good, precious metals generally, as are firearms, ammo, food, land, and skills'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cash... isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why i suggested a 50% pay rise at work today :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'forgot water'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, water'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'where do you get skills now?  '
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'you need money for that in just about every case'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'derp'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a world where gold has value is also a world where some currencies will have strong value. Except in very odd circumstances.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'how do you need money to get a skIll?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they want degrees'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'To pay the person teaching you'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'In the age of the Internet?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold isn't an investment, but it is proof against inflation and currency devaluation'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why investors flock to it in times of financial strife'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'they raised tuition in my province by 10% this year'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(like now)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Internet learned skills are quite often bullshit.  Quite often not, but quite often bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not many people can learn unassissted, unfortunately'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chemosh: 'less people will get even a slob job from university now'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and many practical skills need practical experience'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and what happened to learnIng skIlls from frIwmds and famIly?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I'd make you pay if you were my family :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'family has largely been removed from society by government over the last 50 years, meathole'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I know how to survIve perfectly fIne, and I dIdnt pay a dIme for my knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and skill specialisation has meant skills aren't handed down anymore'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'true'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not everyone can learn quantum mechanics from their uncle Richard'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also, we've had 20 years of .... excess? ease?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'why do you need quantum mechanIcs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'quantum mechanics is first year chemistry..'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which has meant a generation of people have grown up with little or no life skills'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'say you want to do engineering, build some complex electronics...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You need to qualify that with a location, Tigernuts.  Then understand different people might just live differently to you'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you need quantum mechanIcs for engIneerIng?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'for electrical engineering you probably will in the near future'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'are you dense or retarded?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's typical of the whole of the UK, Vakieh, and many other non-rural locations'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for electronics, these days, yes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'wow....'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unless you want to be a mere technician, fiddling with yesterday's stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'What? :P You need no quantum for EE'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Well it depends... are you a researcher or an engineer?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The electrical engineering I'm interested in is the quantum teleportation circuits currently in RnD'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's standard these days... well, at least at my undergrad place...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lots of engineers in my QM class with me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Just because it's standard for classes doesn't mean you need it to do the work'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol people these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's headed in that direction, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not all use it, of course,'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'If you want to do research and design new tools, sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'But the majority of people don't do that'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be headed in that direction for decades in research before it goes anywhere near real world'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'they take tools that are essentially plug and play and use them'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... technicians don't, for sure... but aren't engineers the guys who actually make new stuff?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'it has been headed in that direction for years already.  wake-up call, QM has been around for almost 100 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Almost 100? More like 50'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'le sIgh'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'almost 100'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I guess when I say researcher, I mean people making things like memristors and that sort of stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Although they are engineers to be sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'The majority of people take things and implement them to aid in a task'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the guys building new types of hard disks, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Like I'll take a bunch of parts and design a circuit for a CD-ROM or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'QM was first introduced in 1932'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'But I didn't design a resistor'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'that is 80 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'which is closer to 100 than to 50'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was in development from the 1900s onwards, bert'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Anyways, its a simplified viewpoint - the more you know the better off you are in general'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: '(which is another simplified viewpoint)... but you get the idea'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in theory as far back as 1840s with Faraday'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I don't think you need a hard QM background to do any EE at the level that 95% of EEs work at'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'my point is that QM is not new, and if you don't think that computing and circuit design aren't headed in that direction you're very shortsighted'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'probably...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Maybe I simply don't know what EEs do these days :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'That's perfectly possible too'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'its not about what EE's do right now'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'it's about if you're going into EE right now and you'll be working for the next 30-40 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'assuming there's still a civilisation in 30-40yrs time for EEs to 'do' in'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I just know it's a requirement for them to learn, maybe so that they can get the best jobs which actually need that sort of knowledge'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and yesh, so that their knowledge would be relevant for their working life'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, doom and gloom aside, the world has been in much shittier points civ-wise than it is in now.  The only possible end scenario is nukes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll see'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, there's climate collapse too...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it could be a major contributing factor to WW3'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Climate collapse hit mankind before they had the ability to create fire, we made it out ok'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Other side to that is everybody says they made it out fine until they didn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that was when there was plenty of land per person, and we didn't have tons of nukes in the hands of nations who can get really desperate...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'look'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the countries that can figure out how to insulate themselves from as much of the problems as possible are much more likely to survive... things like underground construction, land reclamation, bioengineering...'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Bertilak: 'er mischan'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'plenty of DUMBs here'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'So, how are thIngs on my new favorIte chnnl?'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the coal industry's going bankrupt and we don't have anything but fracking to replace even half of it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'means at least an extra 10% to your utility bills and to anything that runs on or is made with anything that runs on electricity.'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'dry humping is not really sex :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Map located on the passenger seat" of ac ar could warrant investigation as ap otential indicator of terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'basically anyone who expresses a view that isn't left wing is considered a terrorst, according to new DOJ training documents'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did i slip through a rent in space into 1930s Germany?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://publicintelligence.net/slatt-terrorism-training/'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'and everyone thinks that hitler did it :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it makes my mind boggle, then you hear people like Sonshi and Yuna going along with it thinking it's great'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, the way I read this, it says everybody who expresses some views which are right-wing may be considered a terrorist'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'get people distracted with details and they won't see the whole picture'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'which is quite different from anyone who expresses a view which is not left wing is a terrorist'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the two are equivalent in execution, swalec'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'you think hitler got to power by telling everyone his full plans?... i doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i'm should he used the word "may" a lot too'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'dure*'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'grr :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a disgrace, whichever way you look at it'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I don't think so. I mean, I would treat someone who says "Hitler was good" quite differently from some who says "we should teach an O-levels again"'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a bumper sticker read "Blow up all democrats", or "Gas all jews" they might have a point'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by their same argument, "Vote Democrat" bumper sticker wouldn't be considered terrorism, but "Vote libertarian" would'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as has been proven with Ron Paul 2012 bumper stickers being classes as terorrism'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, if you assume, "may be associated with terrorism" is the same as "throw them in prison" then yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean, as a cyclist, I am extremely suspicious of BMW drivers. This doesn't mean that I think all of them are dangerous'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think it ok that black people get stopped and searched here because they are black?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'being black isn't really an opinion though is it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you'll find that's the point'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'go on, explain'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an opinion cannot be a indicator of terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i need to dip out, but i'll pick it up later if need be'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'terrorism sheesh, area americans still falling for this crap?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, it clearly can. If I am of the opinion that terrorism is a good thing, and we should bomb the US, then this is clearly an indicator of terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, santher, check the channel h istory and check out that link'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, swalec, how does "Vote Ron Paul 2012" indicate terrorism?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'on that I can't comment, as I do not know who Ron Paul is'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'wowo, just wow'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'he's about the only guy in the states that's trying to fix your mess'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'quick glance at Wikipedia suggests he is one of these tedious liberatarians who want to take us back to social disaster of the industrial revolution'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'although maybe I am misreading it'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that comment speaks volumes, Swalec'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'I'm surprised Ron Paul is still alive tbh...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yes, it says that I don't agree with most of what you say. But hey, we can still be friends. '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ron Paul is/was a rather intriguing blend between sanity and outright wtf in policy making'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'probably he is just trying to keep everyone on their feet'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the sane part is advocating policies that would vastly enrich his holdings while wrecking the economy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not my kind of guy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, that's been the standard approach for Friedmanite economics for the last 30 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I believe he was in favour of ending marijuana prohibition and incarceration, but at the same time is ok with sexual harrasment in the workplace (so long as it does not constitute rape)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'He was in favour of ending things like the Patriot act, and DMCA, etc and upholding net neutrality, but at the same time was anti-abortion'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, so, he decides policy objects with dice -- "I'll take two right wing, one not so right wing, and one random plase"'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'well he's already 100 steps ahead of any democrat or republican canidate'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Interestingly, he wanted human life to be considered to begin at conception...but was ok with embryo-lethal stem cell research'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: '(a new) human life does begin at conception'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'but stem cell research should go ahead -- so I am with him there'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If I kill (abort) a physiologically dependent group of cells (zygote, embryo, foetus), that is not taking a human life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Swalec shrugs
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it depends on how you cut it -- I think it is taking a unique human life, but that this is not in and off itself a bad thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all those who decry stem cell research would hardly hesitate to get a heart or liver transplant...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'what if i hate all medical science because i was never good a biology class? I only like impersonal physics based technology.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'biology is physics, if you don't believe that look at the graduate textbooks.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'clearly if i'm going to be as capricious as my last statement is i'm going to have some sort of line of didtinction some place that makes you lose and me win right off'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'distinction*'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, when you come down to it, all sciences but physics are a specialized  branch of physics :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'ever heard of sungazing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'go look it up if you haven't, you'll get a laugh'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are having a giraffe'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'It's nice to know that the borders of my country are protected by a goon force that will happily let criminals in, but if you order a product from abroad, they'll attach a mafia-style extortion payment ontop'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '30%'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they wonder why people commit suicide and/or go on the rampage. Perhaps if government and their goonsquads weren't such cunts, people would feel the need to'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'land of the free'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not in the land of the free, i'm in the UK, which is the land of the really fucking expensive'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Are they criminals because they want to enter your country?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'antartic ice sets new record'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'for what Tigernuts? Freezing out? conspiracy theories?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'record high ice levels'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the time of year'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'of course -- global warming is a conspiracy to make us belive exactly the opposite of what is really happening'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't go that far'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'if we don't all burn as much oil as possible, we shall all be freezing in our homes soon'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'in fact, I think that is a new ice age coming'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is true is that global warming is an issue that has been exploited by corporations and governments alike for the purposes of profit'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'you sure about that? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Temperature_Anomaly_1880-2010_(Fig.A).gif'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'no? surely not? Is nothing sacred? '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think we need more regulation to stop this sort of thing from happening'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what sort of thing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and what is this the anomoly from?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'generally the "is global warming real" discussion is not regarding "is the earth generally warmer now than it was hundreds of years ago"...it's generally regarding "is the reason the earth is generally warmer now because of industrialization or is it a natural cycle"...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for me that's not really a relevent issue, abe'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it's a justification for an action, and it's the action that is the problem i have an issue with'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could remove every single person and every carbon-emitting entity from my country and it would make a neglible difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's what I said, tiger'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you'll hear the argument "we must be seen to be setting an example"'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is fine, so you'd think they would cut our emissions by investing in a self-sufficient green energy supply, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and to encourage recycling and the use of local materials/sources'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone familiar with the "Delphi Technique"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hope you iphone owners have the new "spy on your neighbours" snitch app'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, missed that: People who hold opinions that represents a fairly popular point of view.... are terrorists, according to DOJ'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people who pay for a cup of coffee using cash are suspicious and possibly terrorists'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i think people who pay for a cup of coffee are probably just daft'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think that people who play on muds are a bit suspicious'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'ditto'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'just out of curiosity, Tigernuts, is it that you just don't like coffee?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'love coffee :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'go on...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but criminalising cash is the theme here, not the coffee'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a control thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, everybody has their own theme -- why is paying for coffee daft'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i personally wouldn't pay the huge prices places like starbucks charge'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'is it better to steal the coffee, or what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if i had to buy coffee out, i'd use a small independant'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but generally i'm impoverished enough i wouldn't waste money on coffee out'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, so, you don't think paying for coffee is daft then? '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'me neither, I prefer a octupel espresso'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'you thinking paying too much for coffee is daft'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paying for it at all? no, paying inflated prices to a multinational, yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must I have a lawyer present for everything I say? :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well, you do tend to make fairly sweeping statements'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, this is the debate channel.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well well well, carry on'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's interesting for me to think of them how many of them you actually believe'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'what you think a reasonable price is for a coffee?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what do you think about the criminalisation of cash?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '$2'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'canadian, us and aus?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'how much is that worth in proper money these days?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm from the UK, but since i'm a minority I auto-convert everything to US units for the benefit of the mathematically challenged'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know how to answer that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, 1.5 euro'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'seems reasonable'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think 2 euro is a fair price, 2.5 if you get free refills (which you typically do in cafe in sweden).'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, but that's not what they charge :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're looking at around $5 or more here for a starbucks'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'sweden is very expensive -- I normally expect 1euro for an expresso'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, that's because even people that work in a cafe get a reasonable salary. Insane, I know, but that's how we roll.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that argument falls down in the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you start getting into a circular argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'sure, I think it works well in Sweden. It's just a problem when you are visiting'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but essentially because wages are too low in comparison to living costs and taxation. taxation and living costs are high as a result of government policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Tigernuts, it's called market segmentation -- the market charges what the consumers will bear, and in the UK this is quite a lot'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an oversimplification, swalec'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, you may consider it expensive when you visit from the US, because your money is not worth that much anymore'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I think you will find most thinkgs are an oversimplification'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'Ranrr, Sweden is expensive on most world wide measures. Norway even more so. It is not an issue wrt to the US dollar specifically'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'among the problems we have here is a high population density, a corrupt corporate and government, and a nation dependant on welfare'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those are problems that aren't solvable'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'and, mostly importantly, a luxury rather than commodity market for coffee'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Any item that rely on cheap labor is more expensive in sweden, because the minumum salaries are higher here than in most of the world. '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or I should say the Nordics.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mormonism, where one does not have the freedom of speech. A Mormon magazine editor (of a Mormon magazine, naturally) is facing ex-communication from the Cult, I mean Church of Mormon or whatever it's called because he wrote a series of articles critical of Mitt Romney.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The editor was also brought by two officials to the Mormon headquarters in Orlando to be interrogated for an hour. This is sounding more and more like Scientology with every passing minute.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'Wait, what is there to debate? =D'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ron el hubbard was WAY cooler'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'got to love religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'A cult is just a small, unpopular religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'we're now debatIng how awesome ron gubbard was'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'I just can't see why someone would go to a church where they can't heal mana'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'hunbard* lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'omg'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'fuck my phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'I think that the Mormon church is just a lot more successful than others.  Most churches would love to be as coordinated and well managed and tightly controlled'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Scientology's got Mormonism beat on all of those points.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'Plus it shows that your mythology or it's plausability has nothing to do with whether or not your church will be successful'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'It is. Amazing how the story of a treasure hunter turned con-man in the 1800s blossomed into a religion with millions of followers'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'does scientology even have a cool background story? (other than the one about L Ron making a bet)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nope.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'scIentology's story Is amazIng lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'Yeah only the coolest one!'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'yeah, it has all the thetans coming from outer space and stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'it's so much better than other religions'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think Abelinc meant a backstory on the founding of the religion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ron hubbard was a great science fiction writer'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I mean Christianity, has angels and stuff, but then we skip right forward to a tree and some nails'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Scientology is amazing? The only thing that comes to mind for me is "depressing"... as in the fact  that people actually are a part of it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'scientiology has ray guns and stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I meant the story Is amazIng....'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'ah'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'So has anyone ever had someone close to them convert to scientology?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'No scientologists, but my mother did mormonism when I was young'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'no but Ive heard plenty of horrIble storIes from people that have'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ofcourse scIentology has helped a select few'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'Woah devil's advocate'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'scientology has or dianetics has...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'wIthout the bad the good wouldnt mean as much'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and wIthout the good the bad wouldnt be seen as such'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'so you are saying things can only be bad, if they are also good'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'no'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I am not sure this makes sense -- things can be bad all by theirselves I think'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'even If you only have worse thIngs to compaIr It?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I find the scientology fiction to be more likely to be true than the christian fiction'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'eh, I lIke all relIgIons equally'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'they all have the truth that we are the key to our happyness'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'some religions are more crazy than others imho'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I thought Scientiology thought they key to happines was a machine that went beep'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'while Christianity says that you have to accept Jesus as your saviour'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'well Zen says, "just sit there and don't worry about this happiness thing"'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'both of those are ways to make yourself contem'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'fuuu phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: '"content'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'well, all religions require you to believe things without any proof... so that makes them all pretty equal'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I lIke the mystIcal approaches to the abraham relIgIons'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'religious people tend to think of that as a good thing and call it faith, which is fine, I guess, if you are insane'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'Hehehe yeah, it's fine, as long as you are insane'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you cant have proof of a non physIcal thIng lIke spIrIt though'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'and willing to warn those around you, that would also be polite and a plus'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'MeatHole, that isn't true. I mean we have proof that root 2 is irrational'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I don't think that this is a physical thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'mathematIcs Is a whole nother story'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'there could be mathematIc proof of a soul'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I meant no physIcal observatIons'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'ah, so, it's just religious non physical things that cannot be proved?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You can't have proof of things that don't exist, correct.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Like gods.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you cant observe god, Is what Im tryIng to get at'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the word proof was the wrong thIng to say'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'theres a reason the kabala has a sectIon for numerology(I,thInk thats how Its spelt)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'they belIeve math Is the only thIng that spans all of exIstence'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'wered everyone go? I was havIng fun :('
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You stare in wonderment as MeatHole lovingly rolls himself in the hay.
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): MeatHole tries to learn how to breakdance, but fails miserably.
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): MeatHole slits his own throat and somehow sacrifices the remains to the Sucky-Sucky Life.
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'I'm new and just discovered clan shops and that is taking my attention'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'got tied with doing my job for once:-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'the problem with the argument that you can't proof god, is that it just ducks the question. I wasn't really after proof, but some evidence would be nice'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I would suggest studyIng the kabala then'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If you can't prove that god exists, it must mean that he has no impact on our lives, so therefore religion is irrelevant'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I can, but It would take days to years'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'It took me about half a year to work through all the relIgous texts avaIlable to me'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and Im stIll fIndIng new ones regularly'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You can't prove anything with religious texts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'why?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'For the same reason you cannot prove the existance of gandalf by referring to the lotr series. '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'do we not prove scIencea through peer revIewed papers?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I belIeve the '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'blah my phones beIng dumb, excuse my errors'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'First of all, we do not prove anything. Second, the papers are descriptions of experiments, not the proof iself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'same could be saId about the kabala'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I dont thInk your famIlIar wIth the texts Im refferIng to'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Science is a process in several steps. To make it simple, #1 make a hypothesis. #2 make a controlled experiment to test your hypothesis. #3 analyse the results of your tests. #4 repeat the experiment several times'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No religious text qualifies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'mystIc scholars use the same process'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '#1 is there a magic sky ghost? #2 take drugs unto you see magic sky ghost #3 run yelling through the streets about the magic sky ghost #4 repeat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SeXyBiTcH Fearlis: 'meathole? seriously?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you're all unfamIlIar wIth what Im talkIng about, and thus you thInk Im talkIng about the common texts'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'so Ill just stop...lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The devil is in the details. A controlled experiment must be done in a specific way to be valid. Even serious scientists fail with this a lot of the time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Nah, you just lack scientific training, like most people do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's why you think it is valid science.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'le sIgh, I never saId It wad a scIence'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SeXyBiTcH Fearlis: 'honestly controled experiments and be squed to say anything you want them to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '... skewed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I saId some thIngs are outsIde the realm of scIence'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and thus cant be explaIned by them'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes, like things that do not exist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'no lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SeXyBiTcH Fearlis: 'the flu shot doesnt exsist or work'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Ghosts, faeries, gods and the like.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im sorry that we cant make common ground ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'can we agree that our understNd'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Imad, my phones beIng retarded'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The only thing I can agree on is that you believe in things that you do not know exists. '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'can we agree that our understandIng of lIfe Is extremly narrow?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and yes I accept the possIbIlty of unproven thIngs'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I believe in some things that have not been tested in empirical tests, like string theory. But I do not make life decisions based on those things, and I am prepared to change my beliefs based on observations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Ive never made a lIfe decIsIon on my spIrItual belIefs, and Im extremly open to change my belIefs'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'I never change my believes'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I thInk we're very much alIke, just workIng wIth alot of dIfferent InformatIon '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Swalec: 'once I have decided, that's it? I mean, what is the point in thinking something different once you know you are right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lmfao'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'whats everyones.s'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'omfg, Im goIng to burn thIs phone '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'whats everyones stance on the mIddle east?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'leave It be, or blow It to hell?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'leave it be'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'that applies everywhere, not just the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ya, I.lI'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'son ofa bItch, I lIke ron pauls foreIgn polIcy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you wouldn't like UK's health policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'probably'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'all countries should respect other countries sovereignity and leave them alone. If the people are suffering, an invasion never solves that problem, as proven by history.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only is RP's foreign policy ideologically sound, it's also a damn site cheaper'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your view goes against the principles of the EU and the UN, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Probably.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I can live with that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not probably, does, and it's a problem, because your view is correct'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I wIsh ron paul had a chance'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can, you don't live in Syria, or Iran, or Greece'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or any other country the globalist neocons haven't plundered and totally screwed up'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'You can't both be against cults and for Ron Paul =D'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no trolling now, CG'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'agaInst cults?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'OK, let me put it another way'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing wrong with cults, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'Ron Paul has demonstrated his inability to win broad support'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I love anythIng occult'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'define broad support'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and that saddens me CG, because he Is our best bet'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'As long as we are in a 2 party system the libertarian party draws off a lot of the best and brightest of the right'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a reason for that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'The policies are more sound.  '
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the natural party of the "right" has been taken over by neocons and nutjobs'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as the natural party of the "left" has been taken over by communists and global collectivists'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just as in the UK both left and right are now "middle"'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'So instead of choosing between a broader social safety net and smaller government I get to choose between a broader social safety net and idiocy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an incorrect assessment'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'eIther sIce Is IdIocy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your assessment of the romney camp is sound'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your assessment of the obama camp is not'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'sIde*'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence why people like RP and the libertarians consistently poll 10-20%'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Clevergadget: 'going to get some food from a store, brb'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'has nothIng to do wIth mesIa blackout on RP rIght?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, mh, i don't know, i doubt he'd have won the nomination anyway, but they certainly pulled out all the stops and dirty tricks to make sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'medIa* to hell wIth thIs phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'd have done better to run 3rd party'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'he wouldnt have won the nomInatIon cause they wont allow It'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't have the neocon corporate backing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he wouldn't follow their agenda of war'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the problem Is the majorIty of amerIca Is OK wIth everythIng'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the same reason you wouldn't get a true socialist running for democrats'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'It saddens me'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think i have an inkling of what all this ammo purcashing is about'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Ive alot of theorIes on that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'none are good for us lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'what's so bad about failure?  Why this need for a safety net?  This country was founded by people with many failures, but they didn't give up.  The safety nets that the government provide encourage those who fail to stop trying, instead of learning from the failure and trying again right away.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'who saId anythIng lIke that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'well, for absolute real failure, what's wrong with it is that it ends in death...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I dIdnt see anyone advocatIng safety nets lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and whos to say someone faIlIng wIthout wIll be more lIkely to try agaIn?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are few people left in your country of that ilk, andurien, Romney has said only one thing that was honest and correct this whoel campaign'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that was the comments he got castigated for about the 47%'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet it's been no secret here in the UK that all of the election is about the 10% in the middle'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's a sign of a dying democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yeah, I was gonna reach T9 last week but my keyboard cut out'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the problem Is the de-educatIon of the people'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyway, my theory is that the economic collapse will be an excuse for Obama to fully remove "States" from the legislative process'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that he has amassed all this weapons and ammo is for the martial law that will ensue from the revolt'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'that would be a hell of a scenarIo'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im ready for the fIght'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it fits in with all the federal agency encroachment that's been his signature'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you see, in Europe, governments signed up to that end already'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I just want It to hurry up and happen lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they're pretending nations are still sovereign, and it doesn't twig when unelected european beurocrats dictate when elections will take place, what budget to pass, and who is allowed to be prime minister'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm sorry, but it's true'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'all thIs buIld-up Is drIvIng me crazy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i can sit here from a distance and see the analogy happening in the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i love the comment that Putin made that was a sideways dig at Obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I mIssed It'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he said (of Romney) he's blunt, but at least you know where you stand, and i appreciate that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Andurien: 'the problem with entitlements is that anyone who gets them, immediately finds that they need them.  once instituted, there is no turning back, hence why they are called the "third rail" of politics, any politician that touches them is "fried" in the next election.  Slow death'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'lmao'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know, andurien, as a country that's been slowly strangled by entitlement for the last 75 years, i know'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gerald Celente offers some of the most cutting and honest commentary you can find on the economy and politics'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I.hate'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why don't you like Gerald? :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think he's hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'bah, I wasnt sayIng that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'my phones keeps fuckIng up'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I was tryIng,to say I hate the 2 systems as a whole'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'george carlin, please watch :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'I love GC'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ya, I love george'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'great vId'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRQvK2-iqQ&feature=related'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'bah, phones refusIng to load vIds now'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like a slow news day'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'china preparing for war against US'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'slow day In general lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'that'd be an awesome war'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'war is never awesome'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'reports Rear Admiral Zhang Zahozhong, in the People's Daily (newspaper of the ruling central committee of the communist party of China)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'you mean another country that america sold arms to is supposedly wanting to attack them now,,,'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, you have that backwars Santher'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: '?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's over disputed islands between china and japan, USA's only meddling in affairs that are none of it's concern'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as per normal'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'ah nods'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe if the USA claimed them instead of Japan and China, it would solve it'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'you'd almost think america likes war'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'we do'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it does, it likes sending it's young people to the slaughter'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a great way of controlling it's population and further embezzling funds for the rich elite that rule them'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'straight out of middle-ages England'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'ah'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'replace King with "Ruling Elite" and "serfs" with "workers/general public"'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'pur much'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is  great'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3EZQvSCGaJI'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, senior atf agent involved in Fast and Furious also worked for JP Morgan Chase'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'not suprIsed'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at the size of that thing! it could kill a badger!'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that's what she said'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'AMERICA'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'FUCK YA'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'goin to save the MOTHER FUCKIN DAY YA'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher laffs.
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has everybody got aids?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'you know it'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'traditionally, which side is ABC news, left or right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'um, I think left, but that's from someone not subbed to cable'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some people can't see the centre, eh? The world's only black and white...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'moderate/centralist/non sensationalist news gets no viewers.  They're called NPR'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were criticising obama, and i thought that odd, as i had thought them left'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'well ya won't see it watchin the news'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'its easy to criticize obama :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'plumbing - right or left wing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, definitely right wing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): A large blue sweatdrop appears on Sonshi's forehead.
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest gallup has o 47%, r 47%'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'would it kill them to list off the other presidential candidates?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '100 days until the largest tax hikes in the history of america'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, i'd like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(to see the other candidates)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm guessing it'd make their graphs funky though, since they'd be <6%'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'my 401k can't wait!'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ironically, the strongest periods for america were when its rich people were taxed much higher.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Romney released his tax return'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks set to rebound on obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'romney releases a letter from his accountants claiming he paid at least 13.6%'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm not going to show you my tax returns, but my accountants say I paid lots of tax!'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, released his full tax return for 201'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2011'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah... one year...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's release his tax returns, which is more than Obama has done with his birth certificate'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'The most plausible reason I can think of for his not releasing earlier returns, is that, like many rich people, they may have cheated a bit knowing exactly what the IRS will and will not check. Getting investigated for that sort of small fraud is the last thing he needs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think not releasing them was a deliberate ploy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh gee, here come your lies...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what's next? He's secretly muslim?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lies? what's good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander - it's all propanda, just unfortunately you fell for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha. And what do you call someone who claims to be a physicist, but who for some reason can't be bothered to or is unable to estimate the first order impact of CO2 emissions on radiative forcing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be long dead before anyone needs worry about that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and there's no point worrying about it because there's nothing i can do about iy'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'what are you, a retiree?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my generation will never be able to retire'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, everyone thinking they can't do anything about it is what lead democracy into trouble...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'leads'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not about me or my country, it's about china, india, and other very laarrrrgeee populace countries'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, everyone needs to start doing something about it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but if you think causing a bunch of pensioners to freeze to death this winter is the best way to go about making a point, fine'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you think impoverishing the lower and middle classes so that the uber rich can get richer off the back of climate change, thenf ine'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'carry you on'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are far more energy efficient ways to heat a home, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, i'm sure there is, burning republicans in a kiln maybe?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'this is why you impose a large tax, and give everyone a lump sum. That effectively redistributes the benefit to the rich back to the poor'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck with that'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so simple. But no... redistribution! Communism! Bah.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heat pumps?'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a lovely fluffy thought, but redistribution only ever runs one way'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from the lower and middle classes upwards to the corrupt fish's head'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you claim to be a "physicist", go figure...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Carbon Taxes are a scam'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'only because certain people keep blocking these taxes...'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heat pumps aren't efficient because they cost a fucking fortune to fit'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far more than any saving in the lifetime of the system'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're great in a newly built house'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So is manmade global warming being a serious problem that the middle and lower class need to be taxed for'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'provided they don't go rong'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so much easier to impose a flat rate on emissions, and use the money to offset taxes and help the poor'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about you just have a flat tax and leave it alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'helps simplify the tax code, collect more revenue from the rich, help the poor.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but no one ever seems to want that free lunch'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want clean emissions, clean up the freight and power generation system and leave joe bloggs alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not as a group, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heat pumps are great for apartments and large buildings'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but nooo, instead of investing in clean power, they charge a levy on personal electric to pay for crazy wind turbines and then start importing energy from russia and france'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so not only is it merely abdicating responsibility, it's jacking up our electric prices AND making us dependant on another country'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's a golf clap for the people running my country'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with high carbon taxation, you can eliminate income taxation on poor people to offset their expenses, and even offer them lump-sum aid for basic necessities'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you never ever want to eliminate income taxation, it's a travesty that we have a tax free allowance as it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, i'm sorry, that's not very right wing of me'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which encourages higher production of alternatives through increasing the profit for such enterprises'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and lower taxes on the poor also increases the marginal incentive to work'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no enterprises, everything is built in china'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't globalisation a bitch, huh? :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and so it fascinates me how they've managed to get things so badly backwards'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole idea is that stuff which is too important to leave to the markets, or is needed despite the markets, they try and force a market solution for'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like energy and health care'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'net effect, we all get ripped off and screwed over'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yet, the stuff which the government should and need play no part in? oh, well that they have to interfere in'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the free market works well for most things. The key is identifying the areas for which there cannot be a free market.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, where there cannot be a market, where governments try and setup one regardless and we end up with a monopoly'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or oligarchies'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'health care, by its nature, has a lot of local monopoly type situations, and therefore can never be a free market. At least, as defined by economists'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like health care'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and housing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and trains'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and water'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and electric'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roads'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'local government service provision'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is why the govt needs to have a hand in health care, housing, certain types of infrastructure, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a hand? no'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they either need to run it period, or stay out of it period'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you get half and half, you get the uk system, which is a debacle'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why you're all FUCKING CRAZY by wanting a system like ours. IT DOESNT FUCKING WORK'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, not all health care needs to be govt. There just need to be enough govt providers to keep the private ones honest'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'likewise with housing'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'before any of your crazy fucking bastards start waxing lyrical about the service here and how you want yours modelled on it, TRY COMING HERE AND FUCKING USING IT'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyhew, nighty night :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our health care system and housing are both pretty much the best run in the world, because they know better than other govts how much to intervene'
T3/r7/2012-09-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Ima stay away from that one'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'infant children do not have a moral right to life. discuss'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '1/10'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no one has a moral right to life. The fallacy is in treating rights as grants of nature. Rights are human constructs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so is morality, btw.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what australian medical journals are touting as a justification for after-birth abortions'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No, morals were given to us by god. Without religion, we would have no morals.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, boy'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Well, depends on what logic you're going by I suppose.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'religion was probably responsible for the standardisation of morals'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and debasing them, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'A lot of pro-choice people use the reasoning that its not life until its viable to survive on its own.. by that logic, an infant wouldn't be either... Not that I agree with it, but i could see that train of thought'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by that argument, nobody in the modern world is viable'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'except preppers/survivalists'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I am pro stop making stupid laws that prevent people from doing what they want with their own bodies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Thirded.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tendancy is nanny state authoritarianism'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is supported by Sonshi and Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That includes prostitution, btw.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'again with your lies...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not lies, sonshi, you wax lyrical about the democrats, and that's what they stand for'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'if we're talking prostitution wouldn't that be lays?'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you quite specifically attack libertarians for not supporting one of the main parties'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one of the critical questions to be answered is, if you remove the fetus, can it survive with the best care others can provide?'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I attack them for not caring enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when they not care enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'sonshi.. thats a moving target, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's balloney too, libertarians clearly care more than anyone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'My view is that as long as the fetus is inside the woman, it's part of her body, and hence she can do what she wants with it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in other words, I attack only specific people...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'actually, hormones keep the fetus as part of the woman's body, without the hormones the body would attack it as an invader.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't like the abortion debate, it's a debate that, if people weren't retarded, wouldn't even be an issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there are perfectly sane libertarians in my department who don't think 911 was an FBI/CIA conspiracy, who don't think global warming is a communist conspiracy, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well global warming isn't a conspiracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '911 isn't a conspiracy, it's admitted to be an inside job'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, most of the arguments pro life are based on sophisms, not on nature. You don't want a fetus aborted but you don't mind sending someone to the gallows. Rather hypocritical, if you ask me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'so it goes. most are not pro life, just anti abortion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, whatever people think about those two completely unrelated opinions, doesn't really have anything to do with the libertarian ideology as compared to the current fake left/right paradigm'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's not anti abortion, it's anti woman.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the argument there is that criminals are bad, fetuses have don't nothing wrong, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'not inherently, ranrr.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'A significant portion of the people that have been executed in the past have been innocent. What made them bad?'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, the argument about abortion is an argument base on the right to life, you can't pick and choose.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a bit of a tough question to consider because at some point the survivabality of the fetus is such that if you abort, you know that a life that would have almost certainly been there would now not. On the other hand...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... there are a lot of actions which are certain to cause death, but pretty randomly, and you don't know beforehand who exactly will die, and even that is not acceptable....'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... it is certainly a tough question as to when it should or should not be acceptable to remove certain... possibilities.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could do a hell of a lot more with adoption services and contraceptives'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'once a fetus has a nervous system, it gets in to pretty hairy territory...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'into'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, if you are going to go down that road, you have to forbid contraception and (male) masturbation. Also, any woman that had menstruation would be a killer.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, one could argue that in that case, the chance of conception and carrying to term wasn't all that great anyway, and we can duck the issue easily that way...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I prefer to be straight. I don't mind killing non-sentient life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'otherwise you'd have to compel everyone to screw each other for maximum success!'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'well, in the case of abortion you could argue the chance of carrying to term wasn't that great either =p'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you could solve a lot by forcing absent parents to pay $100 per child per week, and if they fail, they get shoved in work prison until the whole 18 yrs is paid off'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a lot of this moralising comes from the fact that we don't like to face the realities of lost possibilities... each one of us pushed aside bajillions of could-have-beens when a certain sperm entered the egg...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'different people want to draw a line at different places...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Pretty much everyone that is pro life is brainwashed by religion. Everyone who is a free thinker is pro choice. With a few exceptions, of course.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as a matter of practically, allowing abortion up to a certain point might be best for the liberty of those already self-aware...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the thing that it is most obvious to me, is that the majority of pro-lifers won't take care of a fetus brought to term, if it isn't there. So they exhort the mother to have the baby, but they won't help her support it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but judgements based on that practically means that we can take away abortion "rights" if it is in our practical interest...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'I think George Carlin said it well. "People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. "'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'my point is, don't tell the woman what to do unless you are willing to back her play.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so "have the baby and watch him starve" doesn't work for me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's not a popular view, but different countries might need to have different approaches to this based on their economic circumstances'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Governments assume too much, methinks.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there should be an extremist group of democrats (like the tea party) that wants to have mandatory abortions to everyone'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you know, to balance the shit out'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and the pols making the laws won't give a damn about the woman living in an alley with her live baby.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'certain countries coughlikeminecough might want to outlaw abortion and pay the women a sizable stipend to have them carry it to term if they insist on giving up the kid... and then remove the kid to foster care for further fees.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a heavy eugenics base in the extremist side of the democrat party'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'countries that have lower than desired fertility rates, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they tend to hang around with the green movement'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'they should be more vocal then'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you also see cross-party links because the corporate elite loves eugenics and the green movement because it's an excuse to take over everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'better yet, they should mind their own business.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is exactly what they do with agenda 21 and agenda 21-based local planning groups'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, vat-grown babies would solve that problem without imposing on women, but we have yet to develop the "vats"'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'eugenics can be beneficial. i would be happy to support retards and poor people with my taxes if they didn't breed'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'beneficial to the planet, extremely fucking dangerous to anyone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That idea was popular in the 30s and 40s, dagnir.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country's leaders have allegedly flirted with eugenic-type ideas...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i know'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'sweden had an eugenics programme'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'germany did too....'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all know how that turned out'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In Sweden, we sterilized "retards" up until the 70s.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it was more of the "nice" kind, where they try to get smart people to have more kids, than poor people not have any.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i support eugenics. i'm not saying we should start castrating the poor and the retarded, but we should definitely discourage breeding with bonuses'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'eugenics is artificial, where the hell to humans got the idea that they can maintain the ecosystem better than it can do it itself? The ecosystem was just perfect until humans started meddling with it, and they won't heed the obvious lesson.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have anti-eugenics here at the moment thanks to the welfare state'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'currently our situation is desperate enough that anyone, no matter how dumb, gets large bonuses for breeding.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not that it's a bad thing, of course... can't be helped.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'd rather pay them for not breeding'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'again, the government meddles... at the time humans became humans there was no government, and things got along just fine.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, we need all the kids we can get. Kids raised in our culture, anyway, for reasons of national integrity'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'glad you agree that welfare causes population explosion'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'sure, take liberia for example'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'no goverment there and the median age is 18 :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our welfare certainly isn't helping our (natural) population growth...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, population explosion is a natural process, as is the process which pares back the population afterward.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'lets go back to hunting, gathering and breeding freely. nature will sort the shit out'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally, the poorer sections of the population have more kids...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'fucking government meddling with vaccines so most of us didn't die as kids. damn them!'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speaking for the UK, poor people breed because it's a guaranteed source of income'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'giving them more money, reducing inequality, actually reduces their breeding rates'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'note also that breeding rates for the upper class are pretty low...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I am glad that at the beginning, old peoples were poor,else none of us would have been here now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yup. and it's cheaper to pay them MORE for not breeding'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's an old addage that goes: "So, you're 16, stupid, and female: What's your best option upon leaving school? Get pregnant, the government will give you a free apartment and money to live off"'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, in countries where the population is falling like a rock, you want as many kids as you can get...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'those would be country where arm conflict is in full  swing :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd think so, but those are the countries where people are dirt poor and breed like rabbits'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is axiomatic that right after a war is over the population will explode.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sitting in refugee camps with nothing else to do...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not breeding like rabbits, as you put it, is a self-imposed restriction. Nature does  encourage that type of breeding. It could easily be argued that it is the natural way.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'natural events don't need governmental approval, if humans would quit meddling, everything would right itself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nature also tends to control overbreeding by starvation...'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I feel sorry for the universe when humans master space exploration. They are going to waste planet after planet. Thankfully the universe will probably implode before humans get around to destroy it completely.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, Sonshi. So leave it alone.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can't have everything, you don't want women to abort, but you are not willing to feed the offspring. You then bitch about subsidies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'like I said, different policies depending on national circumstances'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as if nations were part of nature?'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'OHAI GUISE'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'debates dead? what a suprIse'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): MeatHole starts to hear the faint sounds of a cricket chirping.
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'bandit should get merged with assassin'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: 'Santher should be merged with said assassin's dagger.'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cizra: '(I don't actually have an opinion, I'm just trying to build a conversation)'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'well it makes sense to me, then you could flag a room pk and make use of stalk :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Voting for Ron Paul is badass'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is it legal in the U.S. to vote elections in a state where you're only a college student?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'yes'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Google is being unhelpful, mostly because I don't really know how to phrase my query.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Age 18 = vote'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'when I was a college student in Wisconsin the only ID I needed was a student ID'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's a function of citizenship, age, and residence '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'being a student at the local college demonstrates residence'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if it is a public college, yes :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you do, of course, have to be a US citizen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'mine was not public'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'rules likely vary by jurisdiction as to what identification is required, but you are absolutely eligible to vote in a district based on residence as a student'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you must establish residence, simple going to another state's college doesn't work, you have to be there for certain amount of time. If not, the college will treat you as out-of-state student.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you /may/ have to specifically register'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not talking about ID requirements, but some jackass is arguing that college students shouldn't be allowed to vote in states for which they do not have valid driver's licenses or IDs because "Why SHOULD you be able to vote in a particular state when have evidence pointing to the fact that you are NOT a resident".'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can, of course, cast an absentee ballot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Yuna: imo it's pretty much bullshit that any us citizen can't just vote anywhere they fucking happen to be at the time'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I'm surprised there's not more furor over the Republicans' attempt to weasel they way to steal the election.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you are in FLA and reside in CA, you can cast an absentee ballot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, imo, you should only be 'resident' and therefore able to vote in one state at a time'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In one state they're banning driver's licenses that were issued in other states. That's pretty much saying "We have college students because they vote predominantly Democrat and we want to win!".'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'voting "in a state" is an archaic bullshit idea'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can't vote for local FL candidates or measures, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'for local elections fine, but for a national election it's stupid'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that's not true, Fiendish.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'we already have unique identifiers for residents'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, for national elections i sure don't think you should be able to vote in two states'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US is a federal union'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'so as long as they cross-check between states i have no issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't, Majic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'you shouldn't be able to vote twice. where you vote is entirely irrelevant'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't vote in two states. Fiendish isn't advocating that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's advocating being allowed to vote wherever you currently are in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I understand he's advocating that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just have your vote count as being from the state in which you're registered as residing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'the voting process in this country is just significantly fucked'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'voting in the CA elections while in FL, is no different than voting in CA elections while in France.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'thats not checked via ssn?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, it's checked via DL'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Modi: that would be slightly more sane than the current situation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'DL or state ID is the basis for establishing residence.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd have no issue w/that'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'you shouldnt have more than one vote per ssn, crazy'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I do. The government is trying to sneak the SMART card by the citizenry.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What the heck is the SMART-card, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Are you from the US, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'is a card with a chip that one would have to carry, it  would have to be presented at checkpoints'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Yuna: are you a citizen?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whoever gets elected President of the U.S. and whichever party controls the houses affects me, though, because it kinda affects the entire world.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'how many ssn's had fraudulent tax returns?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not trying to vote in the U.S. elections. I'm not from there, I do not have citizenship, I do not even have residence in the country.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'actually, none. It is impossible to file  a tax return with an invalid SSN.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the IRS rejects the return.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just curious, by the way, Abelinc. You claim to be an Independent, right? Still unsure who you're voting for for POTUS?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'True, though party ideologies here are a little different than elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'my sister in law had hers stolen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Yuna: being an independent does not mean you don't know who you are going to vote for'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'she still hasnt gotten her tax refund'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'voter registration requires you to choose either a party affiliation or "none"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Abelinc claims to be an independent ideologically.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I am an unaffiliated voter, but I know who I'm going to vote for.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in fact, if you have a fake SSN, and you present it  for  work, you will have taxes withheld because there is no check at that time. You can't recover excess taxes, though, because the IRS won't process your return and it might send the FBI after you if you try.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'IIRC.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'out of curiosity, anyone knows how they prevent people from voting in two different states, like where you're going to college, and where you were previously residing in (with a driver's id or whatever)?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you feel comfortable disclosing who you're voting for, Fiendish?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'is it important to you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you can't get a ballot without a resident ID, Sonshi.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nah, just curious.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'id is easier to fake than ssn prob'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Yuna, voting is a secret process'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, I'm looking forward to the debates (both P and VP) with as much glee as last time. Last time it was because I knew Sarah Palin would be inept. This time I know Paul Ryan's going to lie through his teeth and Mitt Romney will refuse to go into specifics about anything.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that's true, Modi. But still, it is  a check.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'every vote should have a snn attached ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I too am looking forward to the debates as a great spectacle that is unlikely to accomplish much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Anaristos: And? I can happily reveal that I voted for Sweden's Green Party in our last eelction cycle.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you want to cheat, then there is really little that can be done at the time, though they might catch you later.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The debates are just a PR shit show of lying to the "citizens"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It will accomplish one thing: Get undedicated voters with a brain to make up their minds.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are entitled to reveal your preferences, Yuna. You are not entitled to know others' preferences :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The ones who don't follow political blogs or news aggregation sites, but rely on word of mouth, TV ads and debates.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The ones who have already made up their minds won't be swayed, it's about reaching those still undecided but too lazy to do much about it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what about political blogs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'and i've never voted, so i wonder who's using my ssn'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why don't you find out, Modi?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said I was, Anaristos. I asked "Are you comfortable revealing who you intend to vote for?" in a very respectful manner, not in a "Tell me NOW!" manner.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'SSN presentations are routinely recorded.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I will have to vote for Obama again, despite his disgusting record on civil rights.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You mean his record on the various Patriot Act-like laws, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'largely because the other guy is a lot worse...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The problem with the system is when neither candidate is qualified to lead'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, atrocious record :) I am sure Bush's was preferable. What we need is more Gitmos :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'too bad there's no IRV'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The other guy would rescind a bunch of civil rights we enjoy today.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I mean things like the NDAA, indefinite detention without charges, etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You have people selling pretty lies to the different voting blocs, then they do whatever they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'mostly because I don't believe that Romney would do otherwise'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic peers intently at SnailBot Anaristos.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'so it's not exactly a vote differentiator'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's quite simple this time imho. If you are a racist homophobe, vote Romney. If you are a free thinker, vote none of the above. Everyone else, vote Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, Paul Ryan today: Obamacare's contraception mandate will be repealed DAY ONE if Mittens is elected.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'those were implemented by Bush, and he got re-elected, Fiendish.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'just because someone else would do worse doesn't mean it isn't atrocious'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'can you vote to have no president, i would do that'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't forget misogyny, Ranrr.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, the point is that Omaba was presented with a fait accompli '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'You can vote for all kinds of things. The reality is that if you don't vote for Obama or Romney, you are essentially voting for the other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'when he took office, the Patriot Act was in full swing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You realize they were trying to push the Patriot Act since the 90s'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wouldn't hold my breath for the country to get turned around quickly, though. The races for both houses are still up in the air. The Democrats will likely retain control of the Senate, but whether they will with a Filibuster-proof majority is still up in the air.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not a party-based thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and there is no way in hell that congress is going to rescind it any time soon.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Look forward for 4 more years of the Party of No's obstructionist antics.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Nobody is forcing Obama to push the NDAA'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Nobody forced him to immediately appeal the court decision that the NDAA is unconstitutional'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The whole party system is white noise to distract people from the reality of where they're being led'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'if i'm forced to buy health insurance though, i'll be screwed, they already jacked my rent up'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, you think Rumney is going to revoke NDAA?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Red or blue, they're pushing in the same direction'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Anaristos: of course not. I've already said this'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop rewriting what Fiendish says in your head, Anaristos.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so that issue as  a voting point is moot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'he already said he was voting for obama in spite of that, because he didn't think the other guys were going to do any better'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Anaristos: you should perhaps debate -h and see what I said already'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Understatement of the year, Majic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'consider two (extreme) models of voting behaviour in a two party system. 1. People vote rationally for the one closest to their views, and can judge both platforms for distance (haha, rationally). Result - centrism. 2. People only vote for a candidate if they are within a certain distace of their platform. Result - highest concentration wins, usually extremism.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'fiendish is rich, he can buy my health insurance'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If Romney gets voted president, I think  I need to update my emergency supplies, and then hide in a corner and wait for WWIII.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I know what you said. My point is that if neither candidate, in fact, any candidate will not make an impact on the issue, then it isn't a point of decision as to whom to vote for.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You should do so regardless, Ranrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'yeah seriously think we gays would still be fucked out of just about everything w/o the dems'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's not going to start WWIII. He's only going to attack Iran.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and I also think we would still have a capital gains tax that was preventing the rise of real nobility w/o republican interaction'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Modi: I think the country is better off if everyone has health insurance'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He never said that it was, Anaristos!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That could cause WWIII.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'there are real results to these events'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was being sarcastic, Ranrr.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'No, but it's something that would be a point of decision if there were an alternative (for fiendish) which is what he was saying.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I know :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is there ANY issue on which any of you think Romney is superior to Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea i'll be a homeless insured man'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They are reading off the same script, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and if your mind is so fatigued you cannot appreciate that these are important issues that have been largely affected, then let cynicism and apathy rule'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US is going to attack  Iran no matter who sits in the Oval Office. It is a set piece of foreign policy, and foreign policy is pre-established, presidents merely implement them as required.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I just want to hear "the other side" argue why Romney's better than Obama. Because Romney's refusing to actually give me any concrete information.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Yuna: well he did invent Obamacare before Obama did'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's been over 200 years of peace in Sweden, so I'm hoping it can stay that way for another 30 years.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Obamacare is what we've had in Massachusetts already for a few years'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'and people here love it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We had to pay for our 200 years of peace by being the lapdogs of the Nazis, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and the idea of national health dates back to the Clinton era.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Let's not talk about it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'True, Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i'm all for it, if i'm still able to pay my rent'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And it cost us Finland, as well.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's funny how Mitt Romney's own home state is poised to vote overwhelmingly for Obama.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'There is one issue on which Romney is superior to Obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Romney isn't Obama :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess that's why Mittens NEVER EVER uses his time in office as governor in his stump speeches.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'heh, Finland was finlandized :) '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because they HATE him over there.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'its funny how he got elected there, maybe the aura of his hair spray confused massachusetts liberals'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'if starling likes romney, he's def going to lose'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You think "Not being Obama" is better than "Being Romney", Starling?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Romney is white :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Yuna: Romney's policies in Massachusetts have been very liberal. As far as his governance goes, he made a pretty good democrat'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'or did you mean that Romney is better at not being Obama than Obama?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'she said one issue, not that she likes him'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'what is that one issue, Starling?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I know, Fiendish. But they hate him now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I already said it, Milkshake.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because he's turned his back on all of his principles and become a religious zealot teabagger (pretty much).'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'No, I'm not going to elaborate, piss off.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Yuna: nobody "hates" him. He's just saying exactly the opposite of all the things he did in this state that everyone likes. so we have no reason to like his new ideas'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Wow, amazing: you were lied to'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Appeal to people to get their vote and achieve power, then follow the script sent to you by the CFR'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '= POTUS'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Dunno. If I were a resident of Massachussets, I would hate him. I don't mean "I hope he dies" hate him. I would hate everything he stands for now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's kind of ironic that the religious right prefers him to obama, given how his religion believes in a finite "god" which everyone can aspire to become, or something like that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's why he's never made religion a major issue in this election cycle. Because he knows the zealots will turn on him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I am one and I think he's done a fine job as mass governor, and I hope that he either goes back to doing what he was doing before when he loses the presidential election or gets replaced by someone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've never said a bad thing about his term as governor.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, have you guys seen his 2011 tax return?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Talk about calculating.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not far from the truth, DosseT. I am not sure the CFR is the creator of US foreign policy, but it is certainly involved somehow. The point is that presidents are basically helpless unless the currently establish foreign policy has run its course. For instance, when Reagan took office, the extant foreign policy had evolved to handle Viet Nam, the being resolved, he was free to create a new policy, a policy we are still following.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'hes had plenty of time to fix it up'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'why did he even release it, shit, I think he was better off with rampant speculation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not that. It's that he said that he's never paid below 12% of taxes or something.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For 2011, he paid 14% in taxes. But the only reason he paid that much was because he decided NOT to deduct as much as he could for his charitable donations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Vietnam? They faked the Gulf of Tonkin to get their paws over there'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'wasn't his idea'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'that happens sometimes'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'like thats better? i pay that in social security alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What's funny is that he has every right to demand to be allowed to make those deductions should he lose (or even win) in November.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, that was amusing... he said previously that he wouldn't be qualified to be president if he paid a cent more tax than he was legally obliged to, then doesn't claim deductions so that his tax rate looks higher, letting him claim that his tax rate has been at least 13% for x years.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I do as well'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: '14% is insanely low, isn't it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'slightly bothers me that with a middle class salary I pay more than double his tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sonshi, he routinely contradicts himself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the Iraq & Afghanistan evolvements are a direct result of the current policy. The Heritage Foundation wrote a white paper on the course the US should take in the ME. That became policy right after Reagan left office and the first Bush took office. Clinton, the little Bush and Obama have been following the same policy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, how many here are NOT in the 47% he so clearly looks down on?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I am not in that 47%'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I pay income and payroll tax :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The past week has been a boon for us who hate Mittens (or rather everything he stands for).'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'put me at 47.2% :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I forget, who is the 47%?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He includes people who get government assistance in those 47%.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'anybody who does not pay income tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I'm definitely in the top 10% of income'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'despite being a student, I have to admit to paying federal income tax, somehow or the other. With my stipend, it doesn't make much sense... but I'm not american anyway, so it doesn't count'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'but people who pay payroll tax (not income) are in the 47%'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'so, if you make like 25k and have a kid, you're in the 47%'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I know most undergrads are in that 46% though'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'not 1% though :\'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't think he meant to say that people who don't pay income tax AND receive government assistance are in the 47%, that BOTH types of people are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'if you make 25k you have no business having kids'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'These elections "issues" are a joke when you have things like LIBOR going on'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'look at the bigger picture'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, it is not clear what is the set of people that can belong to the 47%. Children certainly don't pay taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i cant believe its only 47%, he must mean 87%'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'if you make like 22k w/o kids or somethign to that affect, no income tax, the elderly no income tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'college students are in it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'the poor?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Anyone who isn't white and rich falls in those X% that he hates, it seems.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'College students, the poor, the elderly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'judging from the context, the 47% he mentioned could have been 1. Obama voters 2. People on govt assistance 3. People who pay no federal income tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I made no income last year, but that was by choice and I continued to pay for my own health insurance despite having state free health insurance available'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's news to me, Milkshake. Some one should have told me the last time I filed for 22K :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He hates them because they'll never vote for him and will vote for Obama no matter what... because they're poor/young/old and rely on the government and he hates that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'all three groups don't exactly correlate well'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So... he hates his own father and his father would never hate voted for him in the 2012 elections! It's a riot!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I paid over 4K in taxes, not counting SSN and the other crap they take out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'no, there was a credible case that the figure he was talking about came from a recent survey showing that 47% of americans don't pay income tax (but payroll tax maybe, which jesu christo is a mofo income tax isn't it??)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sonshi, I think he meant ALL THREE. Not necessarily people who fall into all three categories, just all 3 categories.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, most peope think it refers to the federal tax thing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'its so disingenuous to say these individuals don't pay an income tax when they pay payroll, and moreover, at often higher percentages of gross than Romney :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: '47% of people are retired or underage'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Validate that number'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of which a large portion are retirees and students...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, 50 % of the world population IS under 25 :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'man, that's why I feel old'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what's funny (I'm going to elaborate on my earlier point)? George Romney, Mitt Romney's dad, came to the country destitute and relied on government assistance for 3 years. He paid no income tax during that time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So Mittens hates his own father his own father would never vote for him. Seems legit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'Romney built his father's success'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and therefore his resulting success, he used a time machine which he built out of blood sweat and tears individually reinventing calculus, group theory, astrophysics, relativity, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The beliefs people espouse aren't necessarily their own - they're ones that will appeal to the target demographic they need'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'all in his own language, which he taught himself to readn and write'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's essentially targeted marketing'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, and Romney's mother spoke in that interview about how George Romney "didn't build" everything on his own, how the U.S. helped him achieve his dream. Good times.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't know why Romney reminds me of McCain :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, no, you're confusing two sleazebags.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'One is a liar, the other an open sleazebag.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I would have liked to see Clinton run.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'I don't, I think Romney, if tortured, would probably cry like a little girl and spill his guts'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'McCain was pretty open about how much he loathed so many people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'and then profess that he really is in complete political agreement with his captors'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney is refusing to go into specifics because he thinks people are stupid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't know if it's some fluke, but gallup's tracking has had romney drawing level with obama. Given the whole 46% thing... I wonder if the voting public is just stupid or something. Of course, if politicians didn't think they were stupid, they might try harder not to lie...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I actually like Romney as a person, from what I've seen of him, even though I wouldn't vote for him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'McCain...no.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '47%, I mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Isn't Gallup terribly right-wing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, you have seen something I haven't, Leinei :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nate Silver predicts Obama winning. That's all I need to know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'romney is unfortunately creepy as shit in real life'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Leinei, how can you know any of that was his genuine self? He lies so effortlessly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'gallup's polling seems largely within standard methodology, as far as I can tell...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but flukes happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So has Obama - don't hoodwink yourself with bias'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nate Silver was spot on on pretty much every prediction for the 2008 races. He predicts Obama getting 309.5 delegates, Romney 228.5, the rest is up in the air.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'anyone who wants to be president is fucked in the head'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'my girlfriend dated a member of his church for a while'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Whether or not I like someone doesn't necessarily correlate with whether or not I believe what he says.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I don't know Obama and I don't know Romney. I do know that they are politicians, which means that if they tell me that it is raining, I am going to go outside and take a look.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if obama is as bad as romney, he sure has been doing a much better job at hiding it!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Hiding? There's no hiding'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's out in the open, and denied away'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'Obama ordered the DOJ not to defend DOMA, pushed through the repeal of DADT, and told the world for the first time that the AMerican President is in favor of faggots like me marrying...he could lie all he wants and I would still think him a more straightforward person for taking risks like that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'between someone you know hates your guts, and someone who seems like he may give a crap if he feels up to it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DosseT, just accept that we're bleeding heart liberals who are willfully ignorant who'll never accept the Truthiness of your words.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lord Demon Pitkis: 'their all full of shit puppets'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Milkshake, you're gay?! I'm shocked I tell you! Shocked and apalled!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Is he better because he pushed for things that appeal to your bloc?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Milkshake: just don't get murdered by a drone'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, let's not concentrate on the personal, let's concentrate on his party affiliations. We know what he will do because Reagan and Bush 1 & 2 did it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'bend over, if you like being shocked! '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'yeah, since republican policy doesn't change over the years'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he's better because we don't yet know that he hates poor people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'republican means pretty much the exact opposite of what it did a hundred years ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The only thing surprising is that you don't feel a level of betrayal'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'no, he is mroe straightforward for doing something politically risky which he would have been wiser not to do if he wanted to increase his chances at getting reelected'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still love it how nobody remembers the 32 Republicans Senators (I think... possibly House reps) who vote NO on a bill that allowed female state employees stationed overseas to report rapes committed upon them (because apparently that wasn't legal 'til the bill passed).'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'he did the right thing...when it was hard '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lord Demon Pitkis: 'ZEITGEIST RULES'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we know that his cronies will benefit publicly and hugely from his being in office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Democrats should be running ads featuring their "Nays" all day to get them voted out of office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and retirees, and students, and other unproductive scumbags who aren't out there making stuff for their rightful Lords...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we know that only the middle class will pay taxes, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, Michelle Bachmann is slipping. Her Senate race is currently a dead heat. Her Democrat challenger stands a good chance of nabbing her Senate seat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Shrugs, as a student now, I get a whole lot less money than I did 4 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'are they running some form of this ad "Romney has made millions in income and paid only 14% in taxes...how much did you pay?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No. But they really should.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'they took away my pell grant and gave it to undergraduates'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'students are traditionally the first to lose funding, Leinei.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love it how Romney talks about how he's never paid less than 14% in taxes as if it were some kind of badge of honor.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the "he hates retirees, students, and other people who don't pay federal income taxes" might be a better ad...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Did the Party of No vote to abolish Pell Grants altogeher?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Didn't"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'Yuna: I knwo that they cut it in half while I Was ins chool'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, we only have his and his accountants' words that he didn't pay lower than 13%...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'undergraduate funding has went up over the past 4 (and probably 8/12) years, AFAIK.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'my sister wasted her pell grant on drugs i think'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'no, it went up in the last four, but down before that'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course, never ever in the history of campaigns has a candidate and his accountant lied about documents they refuse to release'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lord Demon Pitkis: 'To be a 1 percenter or not to be a 1 percenter its all up to the 1 percenters'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'per student :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ann Romney on why they're not releasing more than 2 years worth of tax returns: They don't want to give the enemy "more ammunition". So there's ammunition in those tax returns.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I like the point of speculation that Romney is a tax dodger who took the government sanctuary deal for all tax dodgers a few years back.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How can you argue these points so vehemently, and yet deflect Obama's hiding his'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama's hiding his tax returns?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obama did release his returns...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Birth certificates, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'General obfuscation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes... he hid his birth certificate. Totally...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He's obviously a secret Kenyan Muslim.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why the whole incident, then'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yeah, imagine that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's a bit like blasting someone because he didn't criticise churchill massacre of gypsies...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'so what if he is?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'Obama does look a little bit like Tuvok...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'that's a good point except for the point that he hasn't hidden his forums at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'churchill's'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, according to the US constitution...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he could be a Jahova's witness for all that it matters.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, I strenuously deny the murder of ETs from sirius'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ET is a Hollywood thing, the real acronym is XT :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The reality is that at this point, none of the incumbents are qualified, and they'll all appropriately and and expediently hide their so-called skeletons'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"acronym: def: noun: A word formed from the initial letters of other words"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop trying to act like you're bi-partisan, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so XMIT is wrong then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm not'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We all know what you really meant was "None of the Democrat incumbents are qualified".'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'xmit is not an acronym'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'how are all incumbants not qualified? that's entirely baseless'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Look at what people do, not what they say'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wait, wait? When has there been a qualified incumbent?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm not a neo-con Yuna, much as you'd like to rationalize my position as such'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're a Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's all I need to know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a neo-lib then :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'doing things some people don't want doesn't make them not qualified'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'did he mean Bircher?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And despite trying to sound bi-partisan or non-affiliated sometimes, you're suspiciously careful to ONLY attack the Democrats specifically'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama is POTUS'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Dubya was a CFR-controlled idiot who did the 9/11 false flag'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, wow. You can grasp basic concepts, such as who the POTUS is!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Herbert Walker the same idea'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I'll attack the democrats specifically :) Also the republicans and the independents. They are all playing the same game.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Want a cookie?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'it's hardly all the same game'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How has it not been?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't bother Lokathor. Anaristos is a matter if distort the facts, like what people are saying on Debate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'there's a lot that's the same, but there's also a lot that's very different'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If we say one thing, he'll rewrite it as something else and attack us.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Are the different things on a significant level, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yes! anyone loyal to a party, and not a country, is our enemy'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love it when people pretend like they're not right- or left-wing and pretend like they're in the middle with ill-disguised contempt for the other side. Just be open about it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US voters make fun of other countries with 10 - 15 parties. Granted, it is more difficult to maintain a government, but that in itself is good, it keeps incipient ossification from taking place :) '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm left-wing. Come at me!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'From what I've seen, the U.S. has done a good job "exporting" capitalism/democracy in Iraq/Syria/Libya etc., regardless of who's in the hotseat'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'but...but...liberal is a dirty word!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not loyal to parties, I'm loyal to what the parties stand for and try to pass into law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'anyone loyal to a country instead of humanity is our enemy. nationalism is just as bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'BUT MY TEAM IS BETTER THAN YOUR TEAM'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When Mittens was still running in the primaries, I actually said that he was the most qualified out of the Republicans candidates on several occasions, at least one on this very channel.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yes lokathor even better'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He seemed pretty decent and I liked that his run as Governor was pretty middle-of-the-road. But then he became a Neocon.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Always was'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's like saying you like UCLA over USC, Yuna. Regardless of the competency of the players.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Mitt Romney of today is either a NeoCon or a liar. Pick one.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or maybe both.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'he is a politician, how many other labels does he need?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I couldn't care less about sports. What's your point?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'assuming "like" means "would favor they win", then it's nothing like it, since one winner or another in a basketball game has no idealolical outcome'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's what it is, Yuna, a sport'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yankees vs. Red Sox'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that the you are loyal to the team, not to their abilities.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you will choose the time you like, not the best team.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Anaristos, geographical loyalty makes sense in sports.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who is president and which party rules the country is not the same thing as petty sports team allegiances.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It is when you have a can-do-no-wrong view of your own affiliation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which you so clearly have, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the same process by which people choose sports teams, they use to choose political parties.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'when the outcome has nothing important behind it, it doesn't matter who's better than the other if you're picking who you like'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Clearly'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but  voting is not about liking.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'People like the cubs because they suck.  People don't like sucky presidents.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'd rather not have homosexuality outlawed if I were to ever visit the U.S. again.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Which reminds me, why are the Republicans still poised to retain their rule over Texas?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Their 2012 party platform is against CRITICAL THINKING in school!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'because everything is big in texas, even stupid'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You're falling into the trap of voting for that which benefits you - which is what most people do'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Texas is a cowboy state, cowboys back republicans, simple.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The trap is that it's very easy to be led by your nosering when you follow the lies'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'not anymore, it isn't, I think, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'pay attention to the program :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Think they got rid of that part of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'if everyone votes for who benefits them, then the people who benefit the most people get voted for. that works a large portion of the time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Lokathor: they lie'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They tell each voting bloc that which they want to hear'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Get put into power, then do something completely different'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nate Silver predicts that Texas will stay "Safe[ly] Republican".'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US is divided into 2 camps, yankees and cowboys, the Eastern Establishment represents the yankees, while the southern and western states form the cowboys.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'you don't look at what they say, you look at the results'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, yes, the Republicans will likely retain power in Texas, free to war their war on women, gays and those pesky critical thinkers in school.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Yankees are democrats, while  cowboys are republicans.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My state (a southern state) voted democrat last election'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'so no'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They didn't, Leinei. They got rid of some of their harsher anti-gay rhetoric. Pretty sure their platform is still against critical thinking.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'nods, Yuna, I wasn't sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think they might have, and then added it back, or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the last true yankee president was JFK, there has been nothing but cowboys since then. Though the Bush family is of yankee descent they run their politics out of the cowboy camp.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not that it matters. A party that includes "Critical thinking" on what to get rid of is not fit to rule anything.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Obama has his feet sort of in both camps.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Critical thinking has been dispatched by both parties'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You can't take all the negatives and shove it onto your opponents'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'See the forest for the trees'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'er, george the 1st was born in massachusets'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'personally, I don't find anyone qualified  to rule me...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obama has been getting dragged towards the right because of his foolish insistence on compromise where there is none to be had'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the chamberlain of our time...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obama had no choice. The Filibuster mandate is ridiculou7s.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Dragged? You mean showed his true colors'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He could either cave in or have his 4 years yield ZERO accomplishments.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You view it as caving, as that is how it's portrayed'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's a miracle he managed to pass what little legislation he managed to pass, mostly thanks to "traitorous" Republicans with SOME decency left in them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's all a show to keep the people pitted against each other'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's like how chamberlain didn't actually want the anschluss to happen...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I seriously didn't think I'd see DADT repealed during Obama's first term.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you think that party politics is the best? If all elected officials were "independent" there would not be any filibusters.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'it was?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'dadt?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'no fillibusters? ha!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We had the 1 year anniversary of DADT's repeal last week.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why shouldn't each member of congress vote  independently?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'oh i was thinking of the repeals repeal sorry'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Does your liberalism stem mostly from homosexuality?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They can.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'serious question'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, it stems from being a decent human being.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'then if they can, why are they traitors?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'mine doesn't, mine comes from wanting to improve the world'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if there were a moderate with the same views, would you back them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was being SARCASTIC.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know, with the sarcastic quote marks and all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's the word the Republicans used to describe them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but you are not the only one who thinks that way, Yuna. That is a common belief in the states.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I NEVER SAID I WAS.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'republicans should vote republicans and democrats should vote democrats, regardless.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Stop distorting every little thing anyone says!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Wasn't the senate majority democrat when DADT was repealed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'moderate with the same views? it's your views that make you liberal or moderate'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, my point is that what you said is being said by others.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i prefer to be in the middle, left and right are too extreme'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'the very idea is a contradiction'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said it wasn't!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I prefer that they all would go away and leave me alone, I don't need a kingdom or a king.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm a Swede. Our right-wing looks like Communists to the Teabaggers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, teabagging is a right-wing sport :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I'm on the left side of Swedish politics. And gay. And not even ethnically Swedish or born in Sweden. I'm like the Anti-Crist to them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'But you can't fall into the trap of backing someone simply because they're selling you something to which you can relate'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'thats hardcore'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Shut up, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'left of sweden? damn girl'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Strong'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'that's pretty left'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Democrats have actually kept what they promised "me" in the last election cycle, despite the Republicans' attempts to stop them at every turn.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You speak of Sweden'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The U.S. is not Sweden'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'na sweden will be around much longer'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, my block is in the opposition in Sweden, so it really can't do much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But it's kept what promises it could keep, still.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'interestingly, my country is both far more capitalist, and far more socialist than the US.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'largely due to strong economic institutions'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so in some sense we are further to the right and further to the left of american politics'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My country is so liberal in all sense both party blocks supported same-sex marriage, with only the Christian Democrats (surprise, surprise) opposed, with only 4.2% of the voting power.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US is corporatist, plain and simple - it is not democracy when the only choice is between corporate lapdog A, or corporate lapdog B.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They (the Christian Democrats) were so against same-sex marriages being performed in churches they proposed we repeal religious marriage and make marraige strictly civil affair, with the religious ceremony not being binding in law. The Christians suggested that!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They were voted down and eventually the Church of Sweden went on to pass an edict that allowed for same-sex marriages to be performed by churches and priests who wished to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, yeah. Come visit us heathens, Teabagging NeoCons. I dare you. Your heads will explode.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'my country, on the other hand, is so far towards free markets that our socialist party doesn't support a minimum wage at this time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'shrugs, my state just passed a constitutional amendment stating that the only recognized union is marriage between a man and a woman (taking rights away from many more people than just same-sex couples)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whre the heck do you live, Sonshi?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'all christian means is you believe there was some guy named jesus that said some smart shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'North Carolina, Leinei?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'singapore'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'Praise Bob. Hail Discordia. May you be touched by His Noodly Apendage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei nods at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I thought Singapore was communist?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'or at least, that's where I live when I'm not studying. Which has been the better part of the last 10 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just joined the other 15 states or whatever in the southeast'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, our ruling party was a communist front party'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yet they're for free markets?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then they kicked out the communists'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'OIC.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and eventually got kicked out of socialist international'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'so nuclear annihilation is the only thing preventing ww3 right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i didnt study war, so i'm not sure who is on which side'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they privatised everything that should be privatised, etc. Reduced tariffs to 0...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no minimum wage, no real unions'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'strikes are banned, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This has been fun. Usually, whenever politics are brought up, the Triumvirate of Teabagging Conscpiracy Nuts (who shall rename nameless to all who do not ask me through tells) shout down all opposition. Today, I've been able to enjoy the company of non-wingnuts. It's an Autumn Miracle.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'on the other hand, we're also very socialist, because many things that should not be privatised are not privatised...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's easy to relegate the opposition to neocon wingnuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i just wish it would start and then get over , so i could live or die and not have to think about it anymore'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the govt has businesses competing directly with private interests in many areas... most people live in public housing, there's good public transport, there are no slums, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's pretty easy when they make it obvious that they are neocon wingnuts, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's an easy escape to avoid self-reflection'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and yet, somehow or the other, despite all that, the US still looks nuttily right wing to us...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're a Birther. You hold no credibility.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'How is "birther" associated with neocon? If something's suspect, it's suspect'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Don't conflate the two'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never called you a NeoCon.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've always only called you a Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Dubya and Herby are just as suspect - they're simply not in the limelight'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who's Herby?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'George Herbert Walker Bush'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What does the place someone is born have to with how well equipped they are to run a nation?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'have to do*'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'privilege '
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'better education?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just means they don't meet the requirements is all'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'doesn't matter, Vakieh, if it's in the constitution'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But he was educated in the US, that was not disputed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'privilege has ruled the world from day 1.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If you're 34, you also can't be president.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'just the constitutional requirements'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, being president doesn't mean you are a ruler, the real rulers don't bother :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This has been immensely rewarding. But now I must be off, at least for a short while. I'v got some reading to catch up to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Later'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'fun trying to reason with/ignore the mentally ill.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am used to being ignored:>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'what is a birther?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'someone whos not anti-life?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There was an issue with Obama presenting his birth certificate'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'those who want to make sure the US president is a natural born citizen :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'This is suspect because it would not normally become an issue if something were not amiss'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Some people feel Obama wasn't born in the US.  Even after he released his birth certificate, they still believe he was born in Kenyaslam.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the issue with Obama is deeper than that, they won't attack his race, so they attack everything else.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why did it take so long to produce it, then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If something weren't suspect'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'those who insist that obama's birth certificate is fake, insufficient, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'oh i thought it was an abortion thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I would have a hard time producing a birth certificate if I were required to do so :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Why does that matter in reality?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea who gives a fuck about that birth certificate now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, Rumney is pissed becuase his father's bid for the presidency was foiled by the fact that he was born in Mexico :)('
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Because it's a constitutional requirement that you were born in the US, Ranrr.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(for president, that is)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, I know, but why does it matter?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'for most elected offices.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why doesn't it matter?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'No, Anaristos.  That's about the only one'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it's a rule, Ranrr.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Plenty of governors not born in the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If rules are stupid, they should be changed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Vice President...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'or else arnold would be pres'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's why we live in a police state'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but I take your point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'They can be, Ranrr.  With a 2/3rd (or maybe 75%, don't recall) vote'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'think 75%'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But Ranrr, to the yanks the Constitution is like the Bible, only with MOAR AWESOME.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i dont remember being born'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Even if most of them haven't read it, and even more don't understand it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'would if be treason if he were found to be born elsewhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I think the US Constitution is a document worth of respect,  what I regret is that it has not been implemented.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Ignorance of the Constitution is why the citizens have no rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'or rather, that its implementation has been removed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Caramel Milkshake: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ypRW5qoraTw#!  Sarah Silverman on the new Voter ID photo laws'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i wish it were respected every time a cop tells a lie in court'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's my point, Modi.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The Constitution was made to safeguard the people from the government'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Subvert it, and you undermine your own freedoms'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'if obama was able to fabricate a birth certificate and get away with it, god help us all'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'we truly are fucking retarded'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher tells Modi the academy is a waste of time, then asks "Wut is xp? Can I play dis on vista too?!?!"
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'rrr'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Santher nods at Modi.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the attack is collateral, Modi. They would have loved to attack his race, but that would show the world exactly what they think, so rather, they attack other weird stuff. How many other presidents' birth certificates have come into question? How does it happen that it has only happened to the only non-white president?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the whole constitution thing still feels a bit foreign to me, since my country's constitution can be changed any time our ruling party (which has a clear supermajority) feels like it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sonshi, if it can be changed by party vote, it is not a constitution'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'being physically small, though, it's easier for us to keep the govt in line...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'your country is basically ruled by Common Law, Sonshi. A different framework.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'For a document to be considered a constitution, it must require a majority vote of all suffrage-wielding citizens.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The U.S. was set up by terrorists from Britain'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'US is also common law, isn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US constitution was an attempt to codify the country's framework. But the USSC has managed to mangle it to fit political factions.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They understood how power is usurped and corrupted, and set a framework to keep that in check'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they didn't understand the evolution of the USSC, though. That was the mistake of the framers of the constitution.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The big difference here, Sonshi, is that we're "united states", and as such, the amount of power each state has.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, if the constitution gets amended, 75% of all states have to agree with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the states obviate the fact that the US is a republic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, bigger country, more decentralised, harder to agree on anything because it was set up that way'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It was also premised upon an escape from tyranny'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that has always been an empty promise, DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'DosseT, the US wanted to escape Britain's tyranny, so they could inflict their own'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'eg, Puritanism'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, that's always true, Vakieh. Read Camus "The Rebel".'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'essentially he says that the oppressed will rebel against the oppressor and then replace him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we didn't escape british tyranny so w could inflict our own!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Marx wrote it first.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Marx didn't do an existential analysis of it, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not always true though, except in the long run'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'name a revolution where the oppressed didn't rise to oppress.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and you can say a lot of things about the long run. Like "every country is going to be destroyed anyway, so why bother"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Anaristos: the status quo'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mine... well, it wasn't really a revolution'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what status quo?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'wage slaves churning the mill, unaware of their circumstance = the sleeping revolution'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there was a lot of oppression initially, but it faded slowly with time, after they dealt with those they wanted to deal with (the communists)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'when you have things like LIBOR that is empirical evidence to the deck's stacking, you can't cry "conspiracy theory!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'DosseT, the US will never have another revolution while people can still get TV.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you haven't eaten any? Are you a masochist?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a conspiracy is supposed to be a secret, or at least denied...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No secret anymore'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Exactly; the advent of TV is self-quelling'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the way LIBOR was determined was never a secret'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that they collude and lie?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No surprise this is getting no airtime in the U.s.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you could see from the way it was determined that they could lie about it... but it's no more a conspiracy than someone stealing bread of a truck in desperation is a conspiracy...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in most countries, what the government does is suppressed. The US, with its single-minded need for being seen as the good guy, doesn't suppress the truth, it just labels it as a conspiracy theory :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yes, and allows the people to do the enforcing'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"Don't listen to that - it's conspiracy"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Stealing bread from a truck in desperation is not the same as fat cats stealing from everyone else in greed'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people do bad things. Sometimes they get caught. Rarely a conspiracy is involved, unless you count the systematic dismantling of institutions...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US ethos is unique, people don't want to think for themselves, being called a thinker in the US is an insult. This allows the powers that be to manipulate the populace. The only difference between the Greeks of Homer and the US population now is that the former allowed the "gods" to think for them while the latter allows the government to do so.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they faked libor in desperation, they got caught because faking these things is too obvious when there's too much of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a glimpse behind the curtain - what was relegated to wild conspiracy has proven itself true'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No desperation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And this is occurring at the highest level'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't see the desperation because you aren't looking'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'These people aren't in desperate straits - they're bottom-dwellers occupying the highest office'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they were pretty much pissing their pant, metaphorically...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'pants'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They saw an opportunity to profit off the people, and did so'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '"desperate staits" is relative...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a classic example of how the US government operates is the events of 9/11. They accused all that disagreed with the commission as conspiracy theorists, forgetting obviously, that what they put forward to explain the events was, in itself, a conspiracy theory.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'relative to your greed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I don't know how familiar you are with U.S. corporate culture'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a zimbabwean may mock an american for being desperate not to lose their $50000 house "how greedy!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'But Wall Street gambles away 401k/IRAs, then gives itself million dollar bailouts, changes companies, and repeats itself'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's not the libor thing though'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Barclay's?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I loved the name of that country, why did they change it? Zimbabwe Rhodesia. Awesome name :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and most of the terrible things large banks do is well known, and no conspiracy. It doesn't change because the people think banning abortion or stuff like that is more important.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It doesn't change, because people don't know about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure they know about it, haven't you been watching the protests?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, no conspiracy. You come to the US and start telling people what the banks do. See if you are not labeled as conspiracy theory buff.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sonshi, I respect your perspective, but you must understand how things work literally in the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The U.S. citizens pose the biggest threat to the government due to proximity - that is why they are fed the worst lies'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they shouldn't bother. The US is the Prozac Nation :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People care more for what's on The Kardashians are 50 Shades of Gray than what it is that's really happening'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, maybe not the people in the deep south, but the more educated people in urban areas tend to be more aware of these things'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it's not a conspiracy if millions know about it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'No - people with more disposable income indulge in more hedonistic pursuits'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're worse'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if it's a conspiracy just because lots of people are uneducated, relativity must be a conspiracy too... a conspiracy of nature'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're busy seeking status, cash, cars, hos, and whatever easy dopamine release they can find'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who do you think will label you a conspiracy buff? The illiterate? Not a chance, the people that will attack you will have PhDs coming out of their asses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ha, the one's calling, say, krugman a conspiracy theorist are mostly random commentors, for example...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no well educated person could call these advocates a conspiracy theorist and escape ridicule...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '"conspiracy" is the latest meme for "something I don't want to believe"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe not in your country. Here they would get an interview in the Today show :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's easy to label something "conspiracy" if it doesn't jive with your world-view than delve deeper'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and Larry King (or his successful) would certainly interview him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'show me one phd who calls... for example krugman, a conspiracy theorist?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US population is educated not to dig deep, only nerds dig deep, and being a nerd is something to be avoided.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't even know who Krugman is'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the point is that the uneducated (or the "lesser educated" if you're being pc) are mostly the ones flinging accusations of being conspiracy theorists at people who actually have a point'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Perhaps theoretically, but now the word is synonymous with "opposes my world view"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while accusations of being a conspiracy theorist by someone well educated tend to be more accurate...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Do you believe 9/11 to be a false flag?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, I got the gist of Krogman. He's a establishment person, he won't be labeled a conspiracy theorist. He will be the justification for the government moves :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There are many educated people who do, and they are dismissed as such'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'see, that's one right there...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Know who Jesse Ventura is?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'DosseT, the answer is simple. When a crime is committed, follow the money. Answer the question "Cui bono"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm already out of the Matrix'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'when someone makes a charge with evidence far less in accord with the evidence than the commonly accepted version, that's a valid charge of being a conspiracy theory.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'want to change that? Bring some evidence'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what "evidence"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sonshi, google "Asch Effect"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'In effect, it's that people do what everyone else does'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Because noone wants to stick out'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's how things work - even when you have irrefutable evidence, if people don't want to accept it, they will'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, evidence, like the single-bullet theory in the JFK assassination. I get it :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah, we had that for the oil drop experiment, but it eventually settled at the right value'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that sort of thing corrects itself under examination'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the Warren Commission produced all kinds of evidence to support the most ridiculous theory since the one claiming that the Sun revolved around the Earth.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and there are people, educated people, that to this day, still defend that theory.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for matters of historical record, when the right theory cannot be determined... well, it's a controversy, but you won't get accusations of being a conspiracy theorist'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe where you live.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You will here'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People have literally been drugged and dumbed down to accept that which the media feeds them'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Direct occipital lobe predictive programming'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People accept and defend this arbitrarily'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'stuff like 911 though, for example... there's overwhelmingly in favour of an outside attack'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That may be the world's perspective'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'every political assassination in the US has been carried  out by lone nuts. The exception being the Lincoln assassination, and even then, they rejected the obvious connections.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'trying to claim otherwise without any sort of believable evidence will get you rightly called a quack of some kind'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'each single instance of political violence has been separated from any kind of movement.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'In short, Americans' brains have been fried'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but as I said before, a simple analysis, cui bono, who profits? yields obvious results.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lone assassinations tend to be more successful, not surprising that most are lone'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but all? There have been plenty of successful plots all over the world where more than one was involved...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am referring to the US. What happens elsewhere doesn't matter as long as the US involvement doesn't come to light :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'eh, is the US that different from the rest of the world?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'plenty in the US.  There was one in georgia a few years ago where the sheriff ordered his deputy to murder the new sheriff that had just gotten elected.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The U.S. is the bad guy - as such, it lies to its immediate threat: its citizens'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wow, that's pretty bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The People's Temple murdered a CA congressman back in the 70s'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sore loser...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The U.S. government needs its citizens to churn its mill, though, which is why it keeps them around'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, the Jonestown massacre'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They poison us, strap us with debt, lie to us, and barely keep us alive to run their corporation posing as a country'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They toss us celebrities to whom to admire that really tell us what to do, what to buy, and how to act'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'What's obvious to the rest of the world is suppressed'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... maybe you can ask the half of the population that consistently let the GOP go crazy over time...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but Leinei, here is the "conspiracy theory", the claim that Jim Jones was connected to US intelligence.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you keep voting a party that prefers the privilege of the rich to your middle-class interests, is it any great surprise that they'll get worse, and that the other party will figure out that there's no harm in following them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'the problem is not that simple'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Wasn't talking about Jonestown.  Was talking about when they stormed the plane and killed the congressman'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's when both parties are the same evil'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Sonshi, Sonshi, what party doesn't prefer the privilege of the rich?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they aren't... pretending they are is what leads you there'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They are'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They meet annually at things like Bohemian Grove, the CFR, and The Committee of 300'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Regardless of affiliation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They are all of one party, masquerading as two to deceive the public into thinking they have choice'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They own all the corporations as well'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and, with Barclays/LIBOR, it is self-evident they control all financial institutions at the global level'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at the very least, one of them claims to be more for the middle... swinging to them will be a clear indication of the public will'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They sell pretty lies'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Obama spent more on the war than Dubya'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Didn't empty Guantanamo'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Watch what they do, not what they say'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you will only get a clearer difference when they believe that you truly want that difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you make it sound as though the people are culpable for their circumstance'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'as it is, they aren't bothering much with that difference, because the voters have given them no indication that they care'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Of course we have'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The problem is that they control the media, and distort the truth with their spin'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not in terms of your aggregate voting pattern!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Voting pattern per se isn't enough - not all are strong enough to abstain'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'some acquiesce with the lesser of two evils'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'doesn't mean they're satisfied'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one side reveals their hatred for the poor and love for the rich, and there's no appreciable swing'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that tells them all they need to know'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I was very much surprised when I found out that Bush was using Madison Av. to create commercials that to push the Government position by pretending that it was coming from "concerned" citizens. This was done in violation of federal law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You speak in theoretics; of how things should be'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The reality is that the majority don't know/don't care, and the educated minority are repressed'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, my country's voting population is a lot more reactive to events... as a result, the parties modify their platforms in response'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and it's the same elsewhere too'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'd imagine that you have a media independent of government'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if the public reacts, the parties will respond'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Here, Rupert Murdoch owns every single media station'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There is no independent journalism'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's 1984'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you don't react... too bad. If you're a 47 percenter who votes for Mr Hates47percenters, well...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's more than enough publicity about these events, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There's only what they want you to see'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Small-arms bill passing?  Distract with sports/celebrity news'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'LIBOR busted? distract with elections coverage'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if you just react to those events that they "want you to see" as you put it, that's enough to force them to react'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not, because the media spins it to the rest of the populace'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It turns the people on the people'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and in general, the media shows what they think people will watch... there's no giant conspiracy to shut down every media network.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if people don't seem to care, they won't show it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The media shows people what it wants them to believe'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you've got to show them you care'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The media is owned by one person'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'watching TV = self programming'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's the internet too, you know...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And the media smears it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They don't like the underground, which is why they're trying to censor the internet (SOPA/PIPA)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'even if only those with internet access react, there ought to be a perceptible swing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'There is'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'where's the swing from the 47% thing?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'don't buy into the 47% frame'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'it's white noise'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people don't seem to care too much, see... they need to stop tuning out and actually react by changing voting preferences, or they cannot save their democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You assume what you are being told to be true'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's not'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if people keep believing that, then there's no penalty to a politician looking bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Exactly'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they should go on a general strike. That will have either of 2 effects, a) the government will yield and behave as it should b) the government will deploy the armed forces. I am betting on b)  :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'reacting to something that might turn out to be false, is ironically better than not reacting at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'One doesn't react if one doesn't perceive a need to'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Like a mouse being crept upon by a cat'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'yeah it's gonna take a civil war to fix the US goverment'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I didn't say civil war, I said general strike.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Free speech is illegal now'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They have created designated free speech zones'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a general strike doesn't accomplish much unless you're willing to go all the way. Only changing your voting patterns will compel them to change their behaviour'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Most people don't realize they're in the Matrix'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Even when there's a breach in the Matrix, like the Barclays scam being exposed'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'when I said a general strike I meant a general strike. The people stop working until the government yields.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That would at least solve the overpopulation problem after 1-3 months.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'changing your voting preference is the one and only one lever you have to move them, short of major donations or mass violence. If you don't use it, what do you expect...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'well they don't want anyone workin'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Sonshi, are you currently in the U.S. studying?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Speak with your peers and see their world view'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'generally disenchanted'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'as they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the americans, anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think about 1/3 of the students in my batch are american'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'your creche? :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think most of the smarter americans in my undergrad batch went off to make zillions in finance instead of to grad school'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Great - so the allure of money and status led them to perpetuate things like Barclays'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Just flash the cash and you'll attract workers'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, pretty much...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and of course, many voters prefer to listen to these "successful" people rather than the intellectuals...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You should see, from your time in the U.S., that that is what is being sold to the young generation'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That success is tantamount to status, money, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's transmitted through things like music videos, television programs, movies, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Literally programming'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Why be a doctor or engineer when you can be a baller ibanker with a lambo?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lots of people want to be doctors these days too!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they make lots in the us'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People see things like Barclays, and think "Cool, I want to do that"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'nah, they don't start out like that, mostly...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'You do when you're indoctrinated at an early age'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they get cornered into it once they realise that they either cheat or tank their own career'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'That's why I avoided finance'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Still, huh.  Debate should build up a limit of lines per hour, upon reaching that it should switch off for the remainder of the hour :-P'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'It's a can't-look-away train wreck, eh'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if I ever go into finance, it would be great to be a short seller... less temptation to do bad things, and most of the time you target bad people'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but very risky, and people hate you for odd reasons'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'At the personal level, something feels unfulfilled knowing I've only manipulated wealth and not created it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'm not motivated by status'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the subset of short sellers who target fraud are very important to society and tangibly do good things (when they are right)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'And yet they prop the system up with yet another leg'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Same with speculators'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they're like those remoras... they do the organism a good deed, but their role is often despised, due to lack of understanding...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'that's symbiotic'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Try telling people their gut is full of bacteria, see what the reaction is.l'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they take down frauds before they get a chance to scam more people. Tangibly a good thing...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'True Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and speculators try to assign resources to when they are most needed. As long as they don't corner the market, distorting it, it's often a good thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'The problem with the U.S. is that they've created a culture in which the fiat dollar is king'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the speculators' job is to shoulder the risk.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If 99 out of 100 people reject the job, the 100th will take it, saying "Who's left to stop me?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Everyone's out to get their own'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the US is the land of the scabs :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but to be fair, scabs keep the labor unions in check.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scabs, anaristos?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'For his tachyon interference, you can take revenge on Daloran'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a scab is picket-line crosser :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'He saw it anyway.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not unique to US'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I didn't say that, I just said that the US was the land of the scabs :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and they serve the purpose of curbing the labor unions' power. Classic example is what happened to the Air Traffic Controllers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'though, I, for one, thought the what happen was despicable.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'happened*'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an easy call, the labour unions in the UK in the 70s essentially killed off the british car industry'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'so, starshIp troopers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'great movIe or greatest?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nice tits...about all that sticks out about ST'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'how DARE you sIr'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ol' Dirty Fiendish: 'I liked the guy who spoke to squirrels'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'NPH lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'the movIe needed more of hIm'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the movie would've ended sooner if they just had Ender'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks quiet on the news front'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chisato: 'well i do believe that it was the one year anniversaty of the occupy chicago chicago movement this weekend'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm, EU Stasi to patrol Internet for Political Enemies opposed to "European Integration"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't like the sound of that headline'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Chisato: 'lovely way to say "Big Brother"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'debate The EU is working to build with the cooperation of its public-private telecom partners a sprawling Stasi-like tattle-tale system. EU officialdom is preparing proposals for semi automated detection systems and buttons to allow users to report suspicious activity on social networks and chatrooms to authorities,'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'In addition, a direct police presence will be integrated into social media. This includes having a profile, joining user groups, sending and receiving messages, on the platform'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'and you arent mad?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Czech President Warns The End Of Democracy Is Imminent'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'but whatll takr Its place Is a the questIon'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'take*'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing, nothing is needed to take it's place'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'anarchy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'Im ok wIth thIs'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU government as a body is entirely superfluous, there wasn't anarchy before it, there wouldn't be anarchy after it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The Gov. Gary Johnson/Judge Jim Gray Campaign has filed an antitrust lawsuit against the Democrats, Republicans, & the Commission on Presidential Debates for antitrust and anticompetitive acts. The voters deserve competition!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far far more important than it sounds. hope it succeeds'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NXhoP5bQ2M&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit long, but worth a watch'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooh, FBI apparently have busted another jihadi wannabe in their own own fake islamic jihadi plot'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do seem to like creating bomb plots then arresting people for being involved in them'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Washington have taken Muhajedeen Khlaq off the uS terror list'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't that nice of them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Houston PD shoot dead a wheelchair ridden double amputee armed with a pen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Thank god'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damned dangerous, those double amputees with pens'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I feel safer'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, you're safe all right'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'part of the winning team, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'No one wins, we all die in the end. Enjoy the ride! :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well just make sure you're armed with more than a pen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wonder if he had any refills'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I guess the pen is mightier than the sword, huh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but apparently not the gun.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'But not the 9-cal'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Quadrapus is agreeing with that Dispel Majic person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Wait... its 9mm?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Gunpen, mightier than the pen.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Fail'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's as good a justification as any for disarming police'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because like in the words of George Carlin "Americans are fucking dumb"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'applies well to the police involved'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why they don't tend to hire police with IQ's over 120 these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I bet our police could make a better clan maze than the current imperium one :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Show me how smart you are b0ss'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they possible could, but irrespective, whichever imm then implements it would fuck it up'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Quadrapus shrieks as Tigernuts grabs him from behind and begins to hump!
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look lively, quad, they're coming for your pension.....'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'haha'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'but not my securities accounts :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'you want to cut taxes on that sort of income :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'thank you!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i hope your securities are overseas, else they can raid it any time they want'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Likelihood of US govt raiding my assets - close to 0. Likelihood of Chinese govt raiding my assets - not close to 0.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't be either'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Plus its fucking hard to invest in china'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be people like John Corzine and similar dodgy corps'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I had brunch with some friends from Two Sigma this morning'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I think I'll be all right :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have more to lose than most'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I think in the long run, the probability of gov't "guiding" pension funds toward certain investments is near 1'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not that they don't already'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they've already devalued UK pensions funds hugely over the last 15 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're now "taxing" Uk workers in the name of pensions that will be worth nothing when they retire'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-if- they retire'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they ought to copy our CPF system.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as most pensions are invested in the market in one way or another, it'd take very little to destroy them'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if the markets don't destroy them, devaluation will'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If real GDP per capita increases by 3%ish per year, that should be enough to keep the retirement wave from drowning us'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'real terms gdp growth has been near 0 or negative for over a decade'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm sure cold fusion and teleporting devices will be invented soon'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole UK national insurance/government pension scheme, dreamt up after WW2 did not include the increase in life expectancy from 62 to 84, and was predicated on full, or very nearly full employment from the age of 16'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'suffice to say, it is a ponzi scheme of truly biblical proportions'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much like the entire western system of money'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'demographic ponzi schemes are the best'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in our system, you can only get whatever's in your account...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, so that's why we'll be glad of MD's like Quad to kill us all effectively when the population gets too high'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'although you can always purchase annuities and stuff or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'UK population is much too high already!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, tinada, we went past sustainable population in the early 1950s'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you think UK population is too high...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you should see us!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're now at around 350% of sustainable population'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Good thing UKers are moving to Florida and getting people to sit in front of computers all day so they develop DVTs'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So you really should cut immigration to 10% of what it is now'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one little island, 5million people'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we can't do shit with population, we're not a sovereign nation anymore, remember?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least you still make your own money'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, we have the printing presses and everything'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the UK still controls all the major levers of its administration... it's pretty easy to disentangle it from all the treaties if it felt like doing so'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'At any rate, since gov'ts are likely to keep printing money for another 20 years, I don't think the nominal value of pensions are threatened'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not the nominal value that's the issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'unlike say, countries like italy and greece, which have given up that very important power...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I think the real problem is Tigernuts and his whacko conspiracy theories'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'for once I agree with starling!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think John Corzine ripping off $1bn of clients money is a conspiracy theory?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Also, the illuminati are the true masters, blame them'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Some myths are true'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's well known, it's not exactly a conspiracy. It's an ordinary criminal event'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada looks at Sonshi and goes "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'QE1, 2 and unlimited didn't happen (US) and 1,2  (UK) didn't either?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Last I read, I think it was decided not to prosecute anyone, so it probably wasn't very criminal'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ohhh kay'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Poor Corzine just doesn't know where the money vanished, I'm sure he's perfectly honest'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure he must have just mislaid it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no prosecutions? After failing to segregate accounts? Haven't been following though'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Yeah no charges'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Its good to be the king... er... former governor of NJ'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's not as though Corzine was some sort of GS finance expert or anything, so you can't really blame him'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vamGQA8gaZs'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'presumption of innocence and all...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Quadrapus smirks at Tinada's saying.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'still, the us doesn't have a great record of dealing with corruption...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'presumption of innocence, how quaint'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that like presumption of privacy? didn't that die last century?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, you're innocent until proven guilty, unless you're black and/or poor!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '8shifty'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'bah'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You can have privacy, if you find the magical cheat codes on facebook'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or hold politically opposed views'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you're a terrorist, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you don't have to have a facebook account ever...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Sonshi.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If I don't have a facebook account, then how will I know what my friends eat for breakfast?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Twitter'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"the revolution will be televised" did a brilliant sketch on facebook'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'people are free to give away their privacy if they want to... by this time most people ought to know what they're getting into with facebook'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Twitter only works if my friends can type, I think'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they went out on the street with rubber fingers on poles, poking random people, trying to show them pictures of themselves and asking them to follow them'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'speaking of revolution, there was another mini uprising in libya recently'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty accurate representation of facebook'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'what's the big deal about facebook, as soon as you connect to the internet you can throw privacy out the window'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Don't tell me the good libyan al-qaeda are doing naughty things?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was a comment on it's benality than privacy'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and just because privacy has been stolen from us doesn't mean we shouldn't have a right to it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dresory: 'your expectation of privacy is diminished by the very fact that you are posting personal information on facebook - to the public.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'why should you want to breathe in space! there's no air up there normally! just get over it!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they stormed some islamist militias and drove them out or forced them to disband'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i personally don't, dresory'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one protestor compared it to the storming of the bastille. I'm not sure they'd want what came after that though...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop other idiots doing it for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dresory nods.
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'polls show that the population overwhelmingly favours the immediate disbanding of militias and absorbtion into a national force as individuals.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-whoopingcough-idUSBRE8320TM20120403'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the murder of the american ambassador just blew that sentiment into the open'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have a feeling I should read that ambassador story more carefully, he didn't seem to be particularly well guarded, given the talk about how security was high for 9/11 this year'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'then again accidents happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he might've felt safe in a country that seemed to love him...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I heard they were using rubber bullets in the attachment assigned to him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the white houses's line on that attack fell apart, didn't it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that and that he didn't want any security.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't run! we're your friends!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nooooo, that video wasn't the arabs lynching him, they were helping him! look, they were saying "God is Great, He's safe!"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'he would've been glad to know that his death doesn't seem to have been in vain...'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, I heard a stat on the Afghanistan war today about US casualties.  With Bush in office, there was 625 total deaths and something like 2500 wounded for both terms.  Under Obama, there were 1400ish deaths and like 17000 wounded.'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'anyone know which republican group runs http://unskewedpolls.com/ ? I assume it must be someone on that side'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'll be combatant deaths, hans, not total deaths'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might even be your side only'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can see the trend there'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'impressive, for a war you had no business being involved in'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that wasn't even necessary in the first place'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'rapidly increasing before peaking at 496 in 2010'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, wasn't the reason given to get shot of al-cia-da?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '2012 seems to be on course for a second straight decline in casualties'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one wonders how they magically transformed that into a policy of regime change'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i'd imagine the multi-billion dollar poppy crop that wasn't allowed under Taliban rule, the huge rare-earth metal deposits, and the geopolitical finger up at Russia had nothing to do with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'despite the Taliban administration offering to co-operate fully and unconditionally with USA in bringing in Al-cia-da well before the invasion happened'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds suspiciously like the invasion of Iraq, where Mr Bush and Mr Blair got together with their intelligence services and said "We need a crap excuse to go to war that won't pass any form of scrutiny but don't worry because the whole system is fucked and they'll never check up on it, and if they do, we'll string the enquiry out so long that nobody will still be alive who gave the orders in the first place"'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but thats ok, because american voters love having servicemen brought home in coffins, that's why they keep voting for wars!'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I'm going to give you some social advice'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'If you ever go out, don't say things like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's the kind of bury-your-head-in-the-sand attitude that allows it to happen'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'There is a time and a place for that sort of discussion'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'And its offensive'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Back to AFK'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell that to the 2 million people who protested against the Iraq war'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you find it offensive, then it's your own guilty conscience'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: '"that's offensive", well get over it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '2 million protesters out of more than 300 million is less than 1% of the populace'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK doesn't have 300 million people'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it was 2 million congregating in London, which is the biggest protest that has ever taken place int he country ever'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Dude, you said this: (Debate) Tigernuts: 'but thats ok, because american voters love having servicemen brought home in coffins, that's why they keep voting for wars!''
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'That's just disgusting. No one likes having people come home in body bags'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well then don't vote for it'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'And for you to extrapolate that from a war is disgusting'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'First, I didnt'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Second, it doesnt matter even if I did'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'That does not mean I like people coming home dead'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'You do understand the difference, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm glad it upsets you because it should'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't just upset me, it makes me angry'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Good'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'If you want to do something about it, learn how to express that anger without completely turning off everyone you talk to'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you're not a complete loss after all'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'It'll do you a world of good. It's an important skill to have'
T3/r7/2012-09-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I am so so glad you feel that way about me :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I told you, once you go Starling you never go back :>'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oops :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sepulchure raises an eyebrow.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'don't mind me, my bot broke.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) MeatHole: 'ohey look i fixed my i's'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Little Johns: 'Best pClass, go!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Court rules motorists can be detained for paying by cash at toll booths'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NYC schools give out morning-after pills to students without telling parents'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unskewedpolls puts romney 3 points ahead on average of 11'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what "unskewed" polls would that be?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nate Silver predicts Obama winning. Not only is he "unskewed", he's the most accurate predictor and pollster in recent history.l'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one bloke?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Sodomy is gross'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're not even pretending to be an independent anymore, are you? Now you're just spouting off lies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Straight up lies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who are you to talking to?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nate Silver is more than one bloke and even if he were, it doesn't change the fact that he's the most accurate predictor of anything in the past several decades. He's won awards for that shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You, obviously, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well good for him'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(more than one bloke = He doesn't work alone)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, what "unskwered" polls are these phantom polls you refer to?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.unskewedpolls.com/'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, so it's not a blanket term for several pools, it a bullshit poll on a website that looks like it took 4 minutes to put together.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How very credible!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like your CV?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I click on a random poll from there (NY Times/CBS), and it goes to an article whose headline is "Mitt Romney lead hidden by doubly skewed New York Times/CBS News poll"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Strange how it says Romney's gotten a n3tgain of 7.8% in recent days when EVERY OTHER POLL shows him losing votes in that same period.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'irony'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And whose first sentence is "The latest New York Times/CBS News poll of the presidential race released today is yet another doctored poll..."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you'd bother reading the methodology, you'd understand why those ones have been selected and why they show that effect'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Romney sucks and Obama is gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just pointing out that this is the article that THAT WEBSITE is pointing to'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'for that poll'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just seems funny to me'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds pretty accurate to me, Leinei'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you needed "the presidential election frontrunners described in one word" that would do it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why should we believe this poll when nobody's heard of it, nobody references it, every other poll contradicts it and you're a pathetic liar?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Ooh, I get it.  They aren't actually reporting the results of polls'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Yeah, that seems accurate...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Independent my penis. You're not lying anymore, just using bullshit logic and arguments.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, leinei, they're unskewing the polls using statistics'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the age-old "Hope they don't fact-check" me excuse of debating.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correcting for sample bias etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama will still win because it's not based on the %age of vote'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Sounds like they're assuming that the amount of republicans and the amount of democrats in this country is exactly equal'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'which I doubt is true'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well almost none of the polls take into account non-voters or independants'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If a random sample happens to be comprised of 44% democrats vs. 39% republicans, I'd trust that makeup over the assumption that those numbers should be equal'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just come out of the closet already, Tigernuts. WHy do you feel some perserve need to pretend like you aren't a right-winger, claiming to be an independent?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If I randomly pick people, and I happen to pick more democrats than republicans, I think the logical assumption is that there are more democrats than republicans, not that the data is skewed'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'poll don't take into account non-voters because they don't vote?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's almost like you're ashamed to be who you really are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you so wound up about tonight, Yuna? nobody been prodding at your bunghole?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because your bullshit getting tiring. Who the FUCK cares about a website NOBODY'S EVER HEARD OF?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Your website is assuming that the exact same number of republicans are going to vote as democrats'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHich LIES?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'which I doubt is true'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that tells me, i guess i should believe everything I hear on MSNBC then'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not even Faux Noise is referencing that bullshit website.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If that website can't even pass Faux Noise's "fair and balanced" filter, then it's pure horseshit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Classic Tigernuts, by the way. Unable to defend his own arguments, attacks the posters instead.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'u suck'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you should go back to watching the Kardashians, or America's Next Great Lesbian, or whatever counts as modern culture there'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Just looking at the 2008 election: "Statistics from the twenty-nine states that have partisan voter registration suggest that the national increase came primarily from Independents and Democrats. Among these twenty-nine states, the number of registrants identifying with the Democratic Party increased 10.8%, compared to 0.5% for Republicans."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Again, WHY do you feel an incessant need to masquerade as an Independent? Just come out already. You're a right-winger.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So I think that website's assumptions that # of dems voting = # of repubs voting is  flawed'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tymas: 'anybody watch clinton's speech at the NDC?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't make any assumption on that, leinei'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, neither do modern popular polls just ask "who are you going to vote for"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I can make the assumption that the the eligible democratic voters are increasing faster than the number of eligible republican voters'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you can't make that assumption'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My point is that your website makes an assumption (number of democrats voting = number of republicans voting) which has no factual basis whatsoever'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'How can you make THAT assumption?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well for one, it's not -my- website'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'number two, you can't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Then their methodology is flawed'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Because that's what they do'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I'm voting for Ron Paul, bitches love Ron Paul'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well like i said, most polls will have some form of bias or flawed methodology'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are by their nature a sample'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you're point is that we shouldn't trust the website YOU linked to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Good. We won't then.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't trust any website'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But that's bnecause you're a conspiracy nutter.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i can guarantee any website you cite will have a left-wing bias to it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yuna is a culture hound'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna is the debate channel equivalent of a crazy old cat lady'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Let me guess she is pro sodomy and pro killing babies and pro gun control'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuck knows, but she needs medication'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's rich coming from Chemosh's wingmang.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wingman'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not even sure who Chemosh is'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the heck is Snooky, anyway? Some new sockpuppet?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Thing is, if polls have a left wing bias then they are proved wrong when the election happens, and the guy who runs 538 was right about 49/50 states last presidental election as well as all of the Senate races.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd guess he's a fellow patriot'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's Nate Silver, Cyrni.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But Tigernuts doesn't let pesky little things such as fact, history and past precedence get in the way of his righteous rants.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Doesn't matter if the websites are biased, if their polls are statistically valid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Not saying they are or aren't valid, since I haven't looked at a single poll, and don't really care to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because anyone who disagrees with him is a bleeding-heart liberal and the left are evil.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '538 looked pretty much in keeping with the mainstream'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Cyrni: 'Just because it's mainstream doesn't make it automatically wrong, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '538 also called the Prop 8 race down to the exact percentile, IIRC.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, Tigernuts, are you getting senile? Chemosh is the conspiracy nutter who makes up the Triumvirate of Bullshit together with you and that 3rd person whose name always eludes me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'why do you always want to pick a fight with Tiger Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know, the one you keep conversing with while slapping each other on the back about how you agree on everyhthing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Begins with an A and ends with naristos?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Anaristos is not in the triumvirate'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because she's a bra-burner'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she can't stand people having opinions other than her own'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know very well that I am a man, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and if anyone dares that, she runs around screeching like a banshee'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I attack Tigernuts the same way I attack anyone with flimsy excuses for arguments. And people allow Tigernuts to get away with way too much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And Debate is close to useless nowadays because most of the time, Tigernuts nand Chemosh have taken over the channel to rant about how Hitler didn't really hate the Jews or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'heard of respect what other thinks, even if its ....'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i rarely speak about Hitler or Jews'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I tend to switch off at that point'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You didn't disagree with Chemosh when he did.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'well chemosh has always been like that Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably because i wasn't listening'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'chemosh is druzil right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like when people start up on gay marriage or abortion, i just switch off'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ronda, respect isn't given, it is earned. And if someone starts out by using bullshit rhetoric, arguments and logic and then has no answer when people reply to them with respect and civility but to attack them presonally, why should I respect them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You might've noticed how in the past 20 minutes, Tigernuts has had no valid rebuttals to my arguments but "You're a feminist"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i mean why putting so much effort to try to change someones view?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah. I should totally respect him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because you've made none'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm giving him the smackdown he so truly deserves.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'at the end you get all worked up and the other person dosent really care'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've had to endure weeks of him taking over the channel to spew lies and inaccuracies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no lies in ideology, only opinion'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You didn't seem to care then. But I give him a smackdown, the first in weeks, and all of a sudden you're up in my grill.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what subject would you love to spray vitriol at next, Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It depends. What lies are you going to spout next?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'me? i don't have anything to lie about'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Claiming not to r3emember who Chemosh is when you engage him in conversation pretty much every single day and feign ignorance to the fact that I'm a man. Also claiming steadfastedly to be an Independent despite being an obvious Right-winger. Yeah. You're just OOZING credibility.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'always happy to give my opinion on stuff'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a bit more complicated than left-right, you raelise'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the left-right paradigm is a false paradigm'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You seem really stuck on this left right thing Yuna, they got you hook line and sinker'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would be more accurate to describe peoples' position in terms of political and ideological beliefs to be a series of vectors representing different facets, each with a direction and a magnitude'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'left-right paradigm is a horrid artefact that comes about from projecting that multi-dimensional set of vectors onto a 1 dimensional axis'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're familiar with n-dimensional vector maths, presumably'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And debate gets quiet once Tiger starts killin it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt there was any to be hand'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had*'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, because he's totally killing it with proper debate instead of endless jibber-jabber about how "The Left" are all evil while the Right are righteous.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky shakes his head at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that was a "no", snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You missed the whole point and went back to accusing people of being "right wing" when they don't share your viewpoints'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'let me guess you watch msnbc and hate fox news and thats where you get your "views" from?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I don't even watch MSNBc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, I don't accuse anyone who disagrees with me of being right-wing. I accuse people obviously espousing nothign but right-wing views to be right-wing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I bet you cried tears of joy when Obama got elected'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who was it who was trying to say that if you don't vote for the major parties then you're part of the problem, not part of the solution?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't recall now'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that had my bbq's out'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'someone actually said that?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, don't recall who though'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it wasn't Yuna, I want to say "It was the other one"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I wasn't me, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hoping someone will know what/who I mean'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But why should we trust my memory over yours when you seem to think you've never engaged Chemosh in conversation.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've got a terrible memory'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I havent voted for either of the two parties since Ive been able to vote'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'especially with names'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You could go to abelincs website it has logs for this channel'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'I disagree! now what are we debating?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it'll come back to me, either some time next week when i've forgotten about it, or when they next say something'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing's up, sep'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bring something if you like'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sepulchure: 'let's debate what it is exactly that makes me so awesome:P how's that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no opinion on that'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Your mediocre response-time in trivia?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his google search isn't fast enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'How about the fact that gays have the same rights as straights allready? I like that one'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bleh'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky shrieks as Tigernuts grabs him from behind and begins to hump!
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, SNooky. That's totally not a lie.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What? I can't marry a dude either and niether can two gay dudes marry each other. Same rights, discussion over.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i could've sworn there was a country somewhere about to relax laws about marrying relatives...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Was it Iran by any chance?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about "age of consent - should the age of pretty much everything be set to 18 and be done?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The US is the only country in the west that prohibits cousin marriage, IIRC'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And only some states'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Didn't Jerry Lee Lewis marry his 13 year old cousin?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Little Johns: 'Yes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '15 year old cousin'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Snooky. Let's talk about gay adoption, gays giving blood, gays being allowed to bring same-sex dates to prom...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'amuses me, and i'm not sure why'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'No, she was 13'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But the big one is the gay adoption thing. If you live in the U.S., it's not legal in many (most?) states.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So SHUT UP.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'manners'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'At least Tigernuts has the excuse that he lives in the U.K.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what's more problematic is that when the male strippers are in the building the gay dudes don't get free cover.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'thing is I won't shut up. It's not like those laws were made because people hate gay people'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It has to do with culture and society'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'w'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, totally not, Snooky. Totally not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And why did culture and society frown upon those things? Homophobia.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'It's just our culture to mistreat gay people, so it's OK!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky shakes his head.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps debate this topic in a christian scripture channel :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then why, pray tell, did they outlaw gay adoption?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, it wasn't because they hate gay people!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So gays can't raise they children all screwy'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'because for the longest time the "science" showed that gay couples didn't make good parents.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And why would they raise childrfen all screwy, Snooky?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'homosexuality is a contagious social disease'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I think where religion influence politics you will find more discrimination against homosexuals than in other places.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Because gays love for each other is based on promiscuity'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not really, no'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Handslanda, no it didn't. I don't think science EVER did that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They couldn't come up with any credible studies that did that. They just lied about it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much like the smoking pot/gateway drug science'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And what is straight love based on?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not wrong until proven wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Morals values etc...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Straight love is based on... "moral values"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Do you use contraceptives, Snooky?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'No'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(This includes pulling out)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the polarbears can't swim science, the coming ice age science, the peak oil science, keynsian economics science'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So you ONLY have sex for the sake of procreation?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(It also includes "safe periods")'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'pulling out isn't a contraceptive.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pulling out is a method to prevent conception.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's pretty much the same thing, only much less reliable.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'this is actually a pretty evenly matched debate seeing as half of aardwolf is gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your gaynses counts for 2, gregor'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: '=h 2'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, we're all gay.  Remember, there are only guys on the internet'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, SNooky, you only have sex when there's a chance of conception and you always come inside/let him come inside?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I'm not straight or gay. I like guitars.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'an adopted child deserves a home where the foster-parents are heterosexual (and not homosexpervert sodomists)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cool, well on that note it's off to GH3'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'me too, lets join hands!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I think I know the answer to that question because you're refusing to answer it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But if I was a fosterchild I would want to opt out of being adopted into two gay dads who makeout with each other and their friends all day'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Celibacy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You do realize that foster children can say "No" to being adopted, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Answer the question, Snooky.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And yeah Yuna sometimes I fuck my wife to fuck my wife. I'm supposed to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No you're not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'As animals yes we are'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'After all, homosexual love is all about the sex, which is wrong. SO why should you fuck your wife just for pleasure?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'There's only like 2 non-human species that have sex for pleasure, actually'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Animals fuck for procreation. Very few animals have recreational sex.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'is Gregor an "independent" (neither straight nor gay, a la mode Tigernuts)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Gay stuff happenes in nature as well as a reaction to what is around you...like being in prison or getting molested as a child'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The animals who ahve sex just for fun are limited to bonobos and that 2nd species whose name elusdes me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'actually, I'm completely straight. I just don't get out much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I think dolphins do'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're either a troll or you grew up with the worst parents ever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'and silverback gorillas'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Why? I turned out great.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '(seems that Tigernuts is an "independent" right-wing supporter)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'chimps pleasure eachother'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts claims the Democrats are turning gay rights into a wedge issue. He blames the Democrats alone for that. Yeah... Independent...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'ladychimps are very keen'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'chimps are animals that failed to evolve into a technological society'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'and curious'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still don't get the "Gay love is based on promiscuity but I have sex with my wife for pleasure" logic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tell me, did you have sex with anyone BEFORE you got married?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But they are...dems are using gay rights to stay in office just like Bush used anti gay rights to get re-elected'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And why is that a bad thing?  What kind of policies *should* they be using?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'newsflash: politicians use wedge issues to get votes =p'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'social policies are very important to a lot of people'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'just as much as say, economic ones'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It wouldn't be a fucking wedge issue if the Republicans simply allowed the Democrats to pass gay rights legislation.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Because I met my wife in high school and it was a legit romantic relationship Yuna. Its not like she is my boyfriend that I met a gay bar circle jerk. after we all fucked each other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And the Democrats have been championing gay rights for DECADES, both in and out of office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'eh, not all of them :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'SO, no, they haven't turned it into a wedgfe issue at all. It remains the Republicans' fault that it is a wedge issue.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay rights won't put food on the table, electric into the light bulbs'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '"God" dislikes homosexuals  (context human)  -- (currently the proof of this theorem requires knowledge not available to sex-perverts)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Until recently Democrats had been avoiding the issue as much as possible, actually.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Sure it will, Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No they hadn't, Izocinoc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'If gay couples have access to the same govt benefits as straight couples'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay for real though, I think gays should get the same rights. As far as adoption and marriage and all that goes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'freedoms of speech, thought, and the right to privacy trump gay rights because gay rights are a subsection of some of these'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What other rights are there, Snooky?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's pretty much all everyone's asking for.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'This is America after all. I meant ALL rights Yuna.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can speak out against gay marriage, you can hate people in your mind, you can do whatever you want that is legal in private.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Yes, the Democrats have done a terrible misservice to the gay community with things such as the Defense of Marriage act being signed into law under a Democratic president.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Gay marriage passing does not prevent any of that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What was he supposed to fucking do?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Rule as a dictator and veto a bill passed by both chambers?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I am against abortion personally for example. But I beleive if a majority of a state wants it legal then it should be so.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'What? Vetoing a bill makes you a dictator?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends how often you do it, izoc'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When both chambers passed it, the President vetoing the bill is basically him ruling as a dictator, overruling the majority of all elected officials in both chambers, in essence overruling the will of the voters.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vetoing a bill Yuna is in favor for is'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'he's already vetoed 2 bills'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Both of which failed to overcome the veto'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what HAS he vetoed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'It's overruling the legislative branch, not the voters.  The voters also elect the President.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The voters also elect the chambers!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The heck?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'So?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know, the fucking legislative branch!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"December 30, 2009: Vetoed H.J.Res. 64, Making further continuing appropriations for fiscal year 2010, and for other purposes."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'and: "October 7, 2010: Vetoed H.R. 3808, the Interstate Recognition of Notarizations Act of 2010."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Is a judge striking down a law being a dictator?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'it's part of our standard governmental procedures...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Leinei, we're talking about Bill Clinton.-'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Oh, hah, he vetoed like 30 bills :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '37'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Judges don't strike down laws with the argument "Because I disagree with it". They have prove that the laws are unconstitutional.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Yuna, pleae look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's the only way for judges to strike down laws.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'more than any other president other than H.W'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Most US presidents veto bills.  They are not dictators.  You're being crazy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But what excuse would he have for vetoing that bill?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Both chambers passed it, THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES were overwhelmingly against gay marraige at the time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If he'd vetoed it, he'd be overriding EVERYONE.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Uh, no.  He wouldn't have been overriding me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'INCLUDING the voters. You don't seem to realize how very anti-gay the 90's were in the U.S:.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You were in the MINORITY at the time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You didn't join the majority 'til TWO YEARS AGO.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'So, does that make bad laws good, just because most people agree with them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or one. Depending on the poll.-'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I NEVER SAID THAT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Should presidents accept bad laws because most people want them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Plenty of bills vetoed that the majority of people probably would've approved'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said that Bill Clinton couldn't justify vetoing that bill besides "I don't like it"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'eg. stem cell research'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'bush veoted that'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You underestimate the stupidity of the U.S: voters.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'topix: this is a homosexual-catering mud -- so a decent debate on (the badness of) homosexuailty is unlikely -- some (that do not care about the opinions of homosexuals and sexperverts) may debate, but most of the heterosexual mudders are likely to keep mostly silent on some topics'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Hopefully he had could have come up with a better articulated reason.  Millions of Americans could have.  And "because he doesn't like it" is exactly why he should veto it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The POTUS is not supposed to impose his will on the people against their wishes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You think the other 37 bills he did veto were ones that the majority of americans dissaproved of?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"I don't like it" vetoes IS ruling like a dictator.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'If the people REALLY want it, the legislature overrules the veto.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes. The legislature WOULD have overruled that veto. He knew his veto would've failed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Dude, it's part of the process.  The first president did it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'In fact, two of his vetos WERE overrided'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei . o O ( overridden... )
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're STILL blaming the Democrats to this day for that. Yes, let's blame them and vote Republican instead. And see them rescind every single right we have.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Bill Clinton failed in that regard, but his hands were tied. Also, it's important to remember why they were tied: Because the Republicans dominated both chambers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'He successfully vetoed 35 bills.  That doesn't sound like his hands were tied'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Bills of lesser importance the opposition wouldn't have fought as hard for.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'All I'm saying is that the Democrats didn't fight very hard for gay rights.  And yes, the reason for that was political, because they didn't have the support of most of the US population.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'lesser importance?  You remember when the govt shutdown because of his vetos?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That was, what, 14 years ago?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Republicans used it as a wedge issue because they knew Democrats were weak there.  Now the tables are turning.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'like 17'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Democrats didn't fight "very hard", but they still fought for us and they never fought AGAINST us.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'you act like he didn't have the power to veto important stuff.  I'd say causing the entire federal government to shutdown is pretty darn important'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Nobody said they did.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Their support has strengthened in recent years, yes, bolstered by more support from the voters. WHy would they fight very hard for something the voters don't want?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't say that Leinei. I said that he could'd vetoed it, but it would've been overridden.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Well, he could have vetoed it to make a point, but it would have been a political loss for the party.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Exactly. Why veto it just to make a point when it would've been a loss for the party? It would've ended up hurting the party, giving the Republicans MORE power, to potentially pass MORE damaging bills.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Try to win the war, not every battle.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'so if homosexuals want a hard debate with hard accusations and aspersions against (the badness of) homosexuality -- find a (say) irc (scripture) channel where truth is often debated and participants are not kicked for expressing contrary opinions'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Izocinoc: 'Thanks for the advice Zela.  That was very helpful.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Over a third of all democrats voted for the bill.  It had every right to pass.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(over a third of all that voted, that is)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Meanwhile, 2 years before that, Norway codified same-sex civil union into law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Denmark did so in 1989'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Communist Sweden did the same the same year DOMA passed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Too bad we live in a democracy, then, instead of a do-what-everyone-else-does-acy'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'that's because sweden sucks'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wait, the year BEFORE that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'btw, I can name a bunch of countries in which it's illegal, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Countries that are considered developed Western democracies, Leinei?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'yep'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name some.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Iran'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some countries that are considered developed countries have a lot to be desired on the morals, ethics, and human rights front'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/World_homosexuality_laws.svg'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Every single country that isn't blue'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You call Iran a developed Western democracy?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Iran'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, Leinei?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm not the best at geography, but the vast majority of those countries aren't DEVELOPED WESTERN DEMOCRACIES.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran is pretty close to the most westernised islamic republic there is'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'India and Tailand are great for the gays'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would have been a developed SECULAR and very rich republic had USA not stuck their beak in and fucked them up in the 1950s'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'India is not great for females'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Iran isn't great for anyone who isn't an older brown man.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'muslim cultures seem to treat females as chattels'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'peru, bolivia, paraguay, chile, all don't recognize any same-sex unions.  mexico and uruguay both recognize them, but don't perform same-sex marriage.  brazil and ecuador have cohabitation rights, but no marriage rights.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'There's a bunch of western democracies for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'also a crapton more in the eastern hemisphere (which is, btw, where every country you named is)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Any MUDers that are Gay AND Blind here?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'thats the only way I could be gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'if you couldn't see his hairy back?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Used to know one.  She hasn't played for years, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I named countries in the Eastern Hemisphere? Like?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'norway, sweeden, denmark'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Eastern, is that to the left or right Yuna?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Norway, Sweden and Denmark are in the EASTERN HEMISPHERE?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'east of the meridian, technically he's right'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'yes, they are'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'lol.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything east of Greenwich, UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by definition'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'science win, and as usual, yuna pwnt.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not that it matters, because you know very well what I mean by "Western".'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'actually, no I didn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'because then I can name a lot more'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'italy, greece'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'POLITICALLY.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'shrugs, I don't follow international politics'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ANd I never said all Western democracies allow civil unions. WHy did you even dreg that argument up'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was making fun of how when the U.S. was busy banning gay marriage, many countries were moving towards legalizing it, not that ALL other countries were.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '[24 Sep 17:13:14] (Debate) Yuna: 'Countries that are considered developed Western democracies, Leinei?''
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone who isn't in the NATO gang isn't real or human, apparently'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'you asked'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That was AFTER you put that map up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'insert frantic backpeddling, as usual.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sweden's not in NATO.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'no it wasn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'You were naming countries which allowed gay marriage.  I said I could name a lot that didn't.  You asked if I could name ones that were western democracies'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'so I did'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I didn't, Leinei.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was naming countries which were PASSING CIVIL UNIONS around the same time or BEFORE the U.S. banned gay marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'ok.  that doesn't change the last two sentences'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'insert RANDOM CAPS to try AND make a point THAT isn't actually anything VALID.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I very specifically said "same-sex CIVIL UNIONS". Denmark would wait 'til 2000 to pass same-sex marriage, Norway a few years later and Sweden wouldn't do it' til 2009.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What last two sentences?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'ok, what's your point?  I named a bunch that didn't and don't allow same-sex civil unions'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'after you asked me to'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, because I was too lazy to look up whi9chj countries were which on that map. So I asked you a question.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I answered.  Then you asked me why I was naming them'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It doesn't change the fact that I never argued what you think I argued to begin with.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I told you'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And here we are'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'are any of those sexpervert countries going to "legalise" human-animal "marriages"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I asked you why you even brought that map up to begin with.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'No, you asked why I dragged the argument up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'and maybe as an encore "legalise" human-vegetation "marriages"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never argued that all countries allowed same-sex marriage Or that all Western (politically) Democracies did. I was naming the Nordic countries to make fun of the fact that while both houses were busy banning gay marriages, all Nordic countries were slowly moving towards legalizing gay marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHich is the same thing, Leinei.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I answered you'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And your answer makes no sense.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'and the answer was "because you asked"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"There are countries worse than we/as bad as we are" isn't a valid excuse.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, how about answering this: "So what?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'human-robot "marriages"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'When did I ask you bring up the countries which didn't allow same-sex civil unions?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I never made any argument that is anything close to resembling that'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: ''[24 Sep 17:13:14] (Debate) Yuna: 'Countries that are considered developed Western democracies, Leinei?'''
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Which is the only reason I was naming those countries'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'no other reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, but you started it by saying "I can name a bunch of countries where it's illegal too".'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'and I could'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'As if it made any sense to the argument at hand. I was humoring you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And what sense did you naming countries that passed same-sex civil unions make?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was making a fucking joke.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps the USA may look at legalising Human-Corporation "marriages" -- when the human dies, the Corporation gets the estate of the human'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Sorry, I must've missed the punchline'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Much ado about nothing, Leinei. It's like you took it as a personal insult that I talked down on the U.S. track record on gay rights in the 90's.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Nope, I just took it as a fallacious argument that I was poking holes in'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'evidently not knowing that it wasn't a fallacious argument, but rather a joke'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How was my statement fallacious in any way?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'an argument can be bad even if the statements are true'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"The U.S. banned gay marriage. Meanwhile, the Nordic countries had all legalized civil unions at that time [and were slowly moving towrads legalizing gay marriage]".'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In what way was that "fallacious"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'See my previous statement'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I didn't even begin to hint that I was meant that ALL countries were doing it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Australia is still painfully behind the times.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'nor did I imply that you did'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So how the FUCK was it fallacious?1'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since when did "being trendy" become a valid indicator of right/wrong?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I assumed there was a reason you were making that statement'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'and not just the fact that you liked to type'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, what was the argument you were trying to make by making that statement?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But how was it fallacious?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Say what the argument that you were trying to make is, and I'll tell you'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You have yet to tell me in what way it was fallacious?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So in other words, it never was. You assumed it was.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Because there's no argument that you *can* make that isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'using those facts in the context of the conversation'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My joke was that the land of the free isn't really free. Friggin' deeply Catholic South American countries beat you to the punch in legalizing same-sex marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhqUk28OwHs'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And while both chambers were scrambling to ban gay marriage, many countries were moving towards legalizing it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'True facts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are there any other sort?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And I was stating true facts in that while both chambers were scrambling to ban gay marriage, many countries weren't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(weren't moving towards legalizing it)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Depends, do you watch Fox News, Tigernuts? The "news channel" whose polls sometimes add up to more than 100%.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'this debate is gay'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never claimed that your statement was fallacious.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You claimed mine was.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay marriage is a piss-poor measure of freedoms in a country'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'No I didn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you fucking senile?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Gay rights aint the Civil rights movement for the blacks thats for sure'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And you said that my statements made no sense.  So you kind of did'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm working on the senile part, at least'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"[24 Sep 17:38:06] (Debate) Leinei: 'Because there's no argument that you *can* make that isn't'"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And like I already said, there's a difference between an argument and statements'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I said your statement made no sense IN RESPONSE TO MY JOKE.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"It is sunny outside.  Therefore it is 2012."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'both true statements'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'but a shitty argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Neither my arguments or statements were fallacious in any way.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, finish this sentence: "Norway, Sweeden, and Denmark were allowing same sex unions.  Therefore the United States..."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '..should try to figure out why this type of contract should/should not be allowed'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My point is that replacing that first sentence with "Italy, India, and Australia were banning same-sex unions." nullifies whatever argument you were making'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I NEVER said that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'never said what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I was aruging that while the U.S: was busy banning same-sex marriage, many countries had already or were on their way to pass civil unions and moving towards passing gay marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'That's not an argument, that's just a statement of facts'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'i was googling for "what is space made of" most answers are like "there are a bunch of particles". people just keep on talking their own monologues. it happens on debates all the time. too little respect or something.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My argument was that the U.S. was behind then and it is behind now. That's it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So, it's OK for you to just state facts, but when I name countries in which gay unions are banned, it's NOT ok for me to just be stating facts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'btw, I will mediate for 1M'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But rather you have to criticize me for stating those facts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said that. I questioned the necessity of your argument in response to my joke.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Other countries are just as bad or worse" isn't really much of a defense.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I was just stating facts.  Just like you were just stating facts.  My facts were just as true as your facts'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying "At least we aren't executing our gays, like Iran".'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'but evidently, I have to have a reason, but you don't'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So what was the reason that you were naming countries?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Since I have to have a reason that I was naming them'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because your statement of facts was a shoddy defense. "People are worse/just as worse as us!" is the shittiest defense ever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'But "people are better than us" is a better one?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know what, this has been a huge wast4e of time. I have better things to do than waste my time aruging with someone who clearly just wants to have the last word.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you just realized that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ol' Dirty Fiendish wants two last words.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei tells Summoner Yuna that instead of saying fuck, he should just say 'mm'kay', mm'kay?
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Waaah I'm getting pwned Im going home'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I get the last word on the sports channel, so it's ok'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(and usually the first, second, and third one, too)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'My joke: The U.S: prides itself in calling itself the Land of Free, yet around the same time that both chambers were scrambling to ban gay marriage, the Nordic countries had all passed civil unions (civil unions isn't even legal in most states today).'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think we got that'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Leineis rebuttal: So? A bunch of other countries don't allow gay marriage and/or civil unions either!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, but they never called themselves the Land of the Free.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think anyone here was under any illusion that USA was even remotely free these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Actually, "Land of the Free" is the national anthem of Belize'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'so...yeah'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If that's not crystal clear enough for you, then you need to sue whichever school district provided you with elementary education.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'there aren't a lot of good arguments for restricting marriage to heterosexual couples'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what about the "sanctity" of marriage'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least if you don't count "it would upset many people"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sanctity of marriage is a religious/cultural artefact'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so is therefore local to that religion or culure'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '/sarcasm'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'marriage shouldn't be granted by government, and civil unions shouldn't be granted by religious bodies, and neither should be synonymous with the other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is why countries should stay out of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'oshit, i just solved it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Izocinoc hugs Boba Felt.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Marriage should be entirely civil.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'no.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or just transfer every single right and responsibility of marriage into civil unions and make marriage a religious rite only.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Afaik, government doesn't regulate the sanctity part. Gov't creates a special type of contract which they call marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'that's ridiculously stupid, just like you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Problem with that is things like applying for medicaid, and the maximum eligible income for married couples is higher than single people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why, Boba Felt?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why should civil unions have rites that single people don't?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'They could call it "cheesecake" or "indianapolis" without changing the content'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'righst'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fuggedaboutit'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'marriage has religious standing, and civil union has standing before the law, don't have marriage granted by something non religious'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why do we need a religiously controlled LEGAL contract?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'and if you want a civil union with your toaster, go for it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the legal contract is not controlled by religion'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'you're saying nothing about the sexual rights, or the rights before god, with a civil union'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I SAID that marriage should either entire civil OR, if you want to keep the word "marriage" for religious purposes only, transfer every single LEGALLY BINDING right and obligation to civil union and make marriage a religiosu rite only.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'and I had my response typed before you said your second statement, dumbass.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, it's my fault you were slow.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'so quit your capitalizing bullshit that doesn't help you make your point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'ANd not psychic for figuring that out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'so ignore it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Fair enough. If a religious group decides that only toasters and lawn movers may be married, that is up to them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Operation Ajax, 19th August 1953'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'right, tinada.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So if my toaster goes up in flames tomorrow, I can get widow benefits.  Sweet.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damn it, Tinada, my lawn mower has been living in sin'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'and if a woman and a pony want to get married, if that's their religious beliefs, let them go ahead.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Besides, religion did NOT invent marriage or the word marraige. Religion invented the word "holy" matrimony.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada points at Tigernuts and yells 'EEEEEEEEEK!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And nobody's moving to create "gay matrimony".'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I want to get married to a mob here on aard'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'and are you so stupid that you can't figure out that there's so many religious connotations with the word MARRIAGE that you just can't use the word because it'll never work? That's why you come up with a word that clearly means "TWO PEOPLE VIEWED AS ONE PERSON UNDER THE LAW"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'ffs, call it "two-man corporation"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'owait, that's sexist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna just wants his cock and eat it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'two person corporation'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'llp?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't really about rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what about gay people getting married ruins it for others?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The word marriage came to be in around 1200-1300 and is derived from a Latin word, a word which existed long before Christianity and was definitely not based on Judaism.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's just a fundamentalist thing, it's no different to feminism'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHo cares if the religious THINK they own the word?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'get over it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Doesn't matter in some states, Felt.  My state has a constitutional amendment that says the only government-recognized union is marriage (between one man and one woman).'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So call it whatever you want.  It won't be govt-recognized'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'leinei -- then that should be changed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They don't, plain and simple. And I couldn't care less if we didn't get the word. As long as it's not separate but equal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'than what's stuck in your ass about keeping marriage for religious ceremonies?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'aside from the obvious?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Considering it just got passed 5 months ago, and it's a lot harder to repeal an amendment than it is to instate one, I don't think it's changing anytime soon'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHich is why I gave you two choices: A) Marriage is entirely civil. No religion involved. B) Civil unions is the ONLY legally binding contract between two people. Marriage has no legally binding contract. The church gets to keep it, but their ceremonies have no legal standing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'thank you, you just made my point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'play devil's advocate for the moement Felt, why does it bother religous people?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'B) is already how it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because it's separate but equal if we codify in law that gay people can have the same thing as heterosexual people, as long as it's called something else.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm glad you've made your views known. Unfortunately some states take a different collective view'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is their right'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some countries do, also'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The point is that there are plenty of people that DON'T want separate but equal'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In fact, the majority of the inhabitants of the U.S. support gender neutral marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's kinda irrelevent'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The "pro" side have won every single poll since the summer of 2011.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'not the majority of inhabitants in my state'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or possibly 2010. I can't remember.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'but it's not decided on a federal level'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'it's decided on a state level'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I could be, Leinei, it could be.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Only the Republicans won't allow that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's important that stuff shoudl stay that way, despite Obama trying to neuter state power'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'founding principle of the country'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it shouldn't be, yuna, it shouldn't be.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I doubt it could be.  States have a lot of power'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And yet miscegenation was ultimately not left up to the states.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you ask european countries (members of the EU) what they think about abuse of power'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nor was suffrage, I think.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'and until you live here, you have zero right to complain about how it is here.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'kthx'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'if they weren't, Yuna, it was because they were considered unconstitutional'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I fight harder for the fucking constitution than most Americans do, Felt'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Under the same reading of the constitution, so is outlawing gay marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'States couldn't ban miscegenation if they wanted to?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'it says the rights of man shall not be infringed on, it doesn't say anything about women.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'States rights issues'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '"State laws prohibiting interracial marriage were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of the United States in the 1967 case Loving v. Virginia."'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Loving v. Virginia ruled anti-miscegnation laws unconstitutional.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei nods.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, no, states can no longer ban interracial marriage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I love how the people who shout state's rights all the time want weed banned country wide'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I dont want weed banned'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'states rights issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama has been flexing his muscles on that issue'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love it how nobody's argued that, yet you brought it up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the wrong camp as per'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that Romney would do any better, he called the cops on a neighbour of his smoking pot in the back garden'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'despite it being legal in that state for that purpose'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name one group of beings that Romney ISN'T against besides old, rich white dudes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporates'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Despite what the partisan Supreme Court ruled, corporations are not beings.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Shrugs, I wouldn't be surprised if the Supreme Court ruled one day that bans on gay marriage violated the fourteenth amendment'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'The State Supreme Court of California pretty much already did that'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'states are missing a trick with pot, legalise it, restrict ownership, ban it in public outside of sealed transaction containers, and tax the shit out of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sin taxes are the biggest horse shit '
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'It's already taxed like crazy'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'so they fine you for tax evasion when they catch you with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '(depending on the state)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should be treated a little like alcohol, really'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If the average smoker/drinker/pot user costs society 1m extra in health care and whatnot, how much extra taxes should they pay for their cigarettes/wine/recreational drugs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should cover the difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they more than cover the difference here wrt to cigarettes, (not with alcohol though)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Why would smoking pot make a person cost more in healthcare?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if the average drinker/smoker/pot user paid the same amount for health care that would be a valid argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'should fat people pay more for food too?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smoking pot increases your chances of getting lung cancer, snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'actually, that's only true if you smoke inside'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I've never seen someone actually go mad because of smoking. I know one guy who had to be institutionalized because of overuse of pot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'people that smoke pot are also more likely to do stupid stuff and get injured'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei blinks innocently.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'not neccessarily while they're high, just in general'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Leinei ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'misuse of alcohol is about 100x more dangerous than misuse of pot'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He was later released and it making a recovery, but overuse of pot will fuck up your brain, at least temporarily. Dunno if it has any permanent damage besides to your lungs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Leinie...no'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people have been institutionalized because of overindulgance in sex'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'abuse of anything can be dangerous, including coffee or chocolate'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): GraySong Gregor nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'I don't know...all the guys that jump off roofs onto trampolines have probably smoked a doobie at one time in their life.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I abused Gummi Worms once'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'In civilized parts of the world, gov't insures you against bad health luck'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's because chocolate is lethal in huge doses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so smokers pay the same, if you ignore cigarette taxes etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So is alcohol. Pot can be, I think, but it also fucks up your brain.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yeah, but all the peopl who jump off roofs have probably watched TV at some point too. Doesn't mean TV caused it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smoking pot heavily every day can give you lung/throat cancer just like cigarettes'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I say: If you got lung cancer because you smoked, no new lung for you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless we invent a way to grow lungs easily, efficiently and quickly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The same goes for livers for alcoholics.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's fair then Tinada, however that is not the case in the U.S. and still taxes are piled on tobacco and other things'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'In Iran they grow organs on the backs of gay people'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'people with lung cancer don't get transplants'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you already have a predisposition to schizophrenic-format mental illnesses, pot will make it much worse'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Twyst.
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you smoke pot heavily below the age of 21 it will have a negative impact on your IQ'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you should avoid smoking pot if you have low blood pressure, are on blood pressure medication, or have a history of serious heart problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, I didn't know cancer excluded lung t4ransplant.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Fine, if your lungs just shut down because you smoke too much, no new lungs for you.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you smoke pot, you should avoid driving for 2 hours afterwards'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But you should definatley smoke pot if you get the flu this year'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'teah, avoid smoking pot if you have low blood pressure, high blood pressure or medium blood pressure'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now for the good news: Smoking pot has been found to stunt the growth of certain aggressive cancers'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Get some cancers, avoid some others?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a damned good anti-anxiety, anti-depressant, muscle relaxant and pain killer'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so is physical exercise :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'and sex'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's also a very effective anti-nausea, and pro-appetite drug, which is why it's making waves in helping treat people who are on chemotherapy'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada rolls on the floor laughing at Leinei's antics!
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'well, unless you're a female virgin.  Then not so much a painkiller'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot overdose on it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll rephrase that, no-one has ever died from overdosing on it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is not chemically addictive'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You can't lethally overdose on pot?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, yuna, not chemically possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least, not practiaclly'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'practically*'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'if you have a syringe full of thc maybe'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'caffeine on the other hand......^^ people have died'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'wikipedia says you have to inject 40,000 times as much as you need to get "high" in order for it to be fatal'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'taking 50 caffeine pills before an all-nighter etc'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'so it is possible then'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and ask anyone who has done gig security who they'd rather patrol, a gig full of drinkers, or a gig full of potheads'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, you can, it's just a riciulous amount.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'just not by smoking or eating it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yeah, just about everything is fatal if you cram enough of it in....but in some cases it's just not practically possible'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Water can kill you if you drink enough of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'yup'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'dihydrogen monoxide is dangerous'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now, pharmaceuticals on the other hand...'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I did mention chocolate being poisonous to humans earlier.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will happily take painkillers, SSRi's, oblivious to the damage they cause'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even fluoridated water'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Cherries are toxic in ridiculous quantities.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Montsanto's GM crops are toxic'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'or if you're a dog'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'don't cherry pits have like cyanide or something in them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, leinei'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Water poisoning is not the same thing as cherries being toxic. Water poisoning occurs when your system has too much water in it, shutting down your organs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Certain things are simply toxic, but will not kill you if you don't too much of it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or when the water is poisoned'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'contaminated'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Water itself is not toxic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Is it because the government put the cyanide there, Tigernuts?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Leinei, it's naturally occuring'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'ok'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ask Chemosh that question, Leinei.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'And sorry, no offense, btw :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The issue with THC is it sits in your synapses for years.  Exactly what it gets up to there nobody has a definitive answer, but lower IQ for those people who begin using earlier than 20ish suggests it is something 'not good''
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a developmental thing, Vakieh, I haven't seen anything that suggests that it sits there'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you sure you're not confusing it with LSD?'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cos LSD bioaccumulates'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'THC metabolises'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm not sure Monsanto's crops are toxic, but when you drown them in roundup, which is the point of their most popular seeds, they do pick up some of the glyphosate'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'THC accumulates at the synapses, it sits there for months to years'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It would explain my friend. He was definitely using it prior to turning 21.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(He's 22 now).'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'THC accumulates in fat cells'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or the metabolites of THC'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your body does process them, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://www.jneurosci.org/content/26/21/5810.full.pdf'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Your body does get rid of it...eventually.  But it goes in through the blood-brain barrier easily, but comes out not so easily.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, crazy article'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"it looks like prolonged heavy exposure might do stuff"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is all part of the "we know it stays there, but we're fucked as to what it does"'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but again, this is talking about "abuse" levels, not have a joint at the weekend levels'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one thing you can count on, it's use is old enough that we know pretty much that sensible use doesn't kill people, or veg them... generally'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'With that kind of logic, we might as well legalize most drugs because they may not cause any permanent damage if you don't abuse them too much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'drugs should be legalised, but not for those reasons'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Except we now know that youth using stunts their IQ by a good 20 points on average.'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'States rights issue...let California have its damn cocaine'
T3/r7/2012-09-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, had to do with still-developing brains'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Where are gay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'shagging your dad'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Frieza and Pui Pui are cousins'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all quiet on the news front'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aside from motorists detained for paying road toll with cash'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Colorado looking to become first US state to fully legalise pot'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nobody's getting arrested for paying $5 for a road toll.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are having their details demanded'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the same as arrested'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'however, generously plopping down a couple grand to pay for everyone else's...that's a bit more suspicious.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't get to decide what's suspicious, paying with cash is suspicious these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is why there was a story of someone having the cops called on him for trying to pay for groceries with money that included a $2 bill'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and a Walmart tearing up two $100 bills because they couldn't believe they were genuine'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and (allegedly) Louisiana banning the sale of second hand goods in cash sales altogether'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's a lemon law.  Those have been around forever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly not everywhere and not applying to much, else people couldn't have yard sales'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Lemon law here has to do with car warranties...'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i pay for almost everything with cash now for a number of principle reasons'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'if something fails on a car more then x times, dealership is obligated to replace the car with a different one. not sure of the details.. i think its.. same fault 3 times or something'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'i use cash because i get paid in cash...'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lucky you'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'you're a drug dealer?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you're one of those illegal immigrants taking our jobs, ain't you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't, which is why the government makes off with 40odd % of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'whore?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wait, I know, he's a corrupt politician!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'this is a fun game'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's almost unheard of to be paid in cash here thanks to the tax system'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'legimate job... just rather leave the goverment out of it :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'stripper? Waiter?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'oh i know. Babysitter'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'queen intervened to ensure Abu Hamza would be extradited to the USA to stand charge for terrorism'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which ... i'm pretty sure is illegal under the EU human rights act'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *Yay!*  Go the blue queen!!!  Vost cheers her on.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Vost goes, "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gold finished the day at $1760'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'illegality isn't really about what the law says, so much as how much fuss the public makes when it's applied.  Some laws actually protect kiddie diddlers and wife beaters, but they get punished anyways (or the vigilantes who exact it aren't punished themselves) because John Q made a lot of noise.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government broke our law system here'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '"for the people, by the people" generally means it's the people's fault.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we used to have the power divided 3 ways, parliament, royal family, and the judiciary'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the royal family now doesn't do their job (and hence should be fired) and the judiciary have now been pussywhipped by parliament'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'big anti-austerity riots in Madrid'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police fired rubber bullets at rubber protestors'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'irony'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'anti-austerity is the "more welfare we can't afford" stuff, right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit more serious than that'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a natural conclusion to decades of getting people hooked on welfare, then exploding the economy so you have 25-40% unemployed, THEN cut the welfare so that people are properly starving'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's called "Socialism"'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so all the best with Obama for 2012-2016, at least you can look to Greece, Spain and Portugal and see what you have in store'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'it's already happening'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ford to cut thousands of jobs, primarily from Germany'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gun smugglers arrested with 1kg of uranium-235'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'everyone can't smuggle opium'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone can't smuggle SOMEONE ELSES opium that you invaded the steal'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was amused by the story of a mother being arrested for letting her children play outdoors'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you'll love the story about the mother who was arrested for making her fat teen walk.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or the woman thrown in jail for writing "9/11 truth now" on a sidewalk in chalk'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the poor girl even wanted to lose a few pounds, but some nosy neighbor noticed she was walking like 2 miles to school alone.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That woman WAS defacing municipal (or whatever) property.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Vandlism, you know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That said, people are arrested by overzealous and biased cops for actual non-crimes all the time.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and did you hear about the kid who brought his lunch to school, only to have it thrown away (he was made to eat cheese sandwiches since he had no money for a school lunch.)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that doesn't make it right, Yuna, and i've heard several stories like that since Mrs Obama starting acting as School Dinner Hitler'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I knew this was what it would eventually boil down to, Mr. I'm-So-Indepndent.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Obviously, this is ALL Obama's fault.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like you're unable to go a full hour without ranting about the evils of anyone who isn't to the right of politics.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'seriously? School Dinner Hitler? Can we have some examples of what Michelle Obama is doing that is bad?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why can't Obama take all the credit the way Bush did?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't bring that story up'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) GraySong Gregor: 'I prefer this channel remains light, happy, and gay.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Paul Ryan certainly wants to give Obama all the credit. He blames Obama for being unable to save a plant he promised to save because it closed MONTHS BEFORE OBAMA ASSUMED OFFICE.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I mean, it's all Obama's fault! If Mitt Romney can retroactively retire from Bain, why can't Obama retroactively save plants?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'that's godtalk gregor'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Paul Ryan is a dick'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The first sane thing you've said in possibly weeks.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Solyndra.  They were approved a loan, with all parties knowing the company was insolvent.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'WHo the heck are you talking to, Hanslanda?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm pretty certain Obama is more a big picture kind of guy and doesn't read accounting details and legislation and such'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'so he probably didn't know'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he is that, Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What are we talking about now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'doesn't matter.  He's the one at the top, who ultimately pays the price for scandals.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Only possible redeeming quality of Paul Ryan is his consistent support of the 2nd ammendment'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love it how Paul Ryan has spoken publicly against Romneycare and Romney has condemned parts of Paul Ryan's bugdet.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I meant Obama didn't plan to give millions to a failing company, or design healthcare legislation to benefit insurance companies or finance rules that spread tbtf disease'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why did Romney pick Paul Ryan as a running mate? It's like he was TRYING to sabotage himself a la McCain-Palin.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should've hired Ron Paul as the candidate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm also not sure who could sabotage McCain better than he and his campaign did during the last two months before the election :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it is, were I American, i'd be voting for Gary Johnson, even if I don't agree with his taxation strategy'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney's doing a pretty good job at sabotaging his own campaign currently.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They're both going for broke.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'everyone is going for broke because they know they will be'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none can make pledges because they know they can't keep any'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'running mates are chosen to galvanize the base... and so are always super extreme politically ( e.g. Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin , Dick Cheney'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Uncle Ben can!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '538 says Obama's got a healthy lead. So we're safe.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Bernanke for president and fed chair!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'safe my arse, you're screwed no matter who gets in'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But Saric, Palin made no sense then and she still makes no sense. Neither does Paul Ryan.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Romney and Ryan disagree on so many policy issues!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's been a while since I heard Biden make sense too :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'independants are either going to be a surprise rush (with the resultant post-jerkoff tsunami of shame that ensures they never get back into power for a while) or won't matter.  Might as well not vote at all if you vote I.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Biden's classic'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ryan even had to explain in at least one interview how he's the VP, so he has to cave to Romney whenever they disagree.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He basically said "I'm just his 'Yes-man'."'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Independants need GJ's legal challenge of the Presidential Debate Commission to succeed'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Palin was a total buffoon, but she was super conservative and thus got a lot of far right-wing support (what we now call the tea party)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that happens, there's a chance you might start getting third party influence over the coming elections'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Don't most people believe (a) that their candidate won the debate or (b) whoever msm says won the debate won the debate?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'where most >= 80%'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'debates are powerful, even crap scripted ones like you have'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dunno, I don't bother paying attention to politics until the one day it actually counts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It counts every day...get involved in more than just votes'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but if you look into it, you see that the debates are sewn up to ensure only those two parties ever get a chance to be in them, and so scrutinised and scripted that nobody can actually question the other, or even do anything without prior agreement'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love it how during the VP debates, I had live reactions here on debate, calling Sarah Palin an idiot, accusing her of not answering any questions wiht anything but non-answers and 180:ing back to her unrelated talking points, etc. and some fucktards told me to shut up and how she was winning the debate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Good times. Good times.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the fate of any third party in the U.S. is to either a) disperse into nothingness or b) get absorbed by another party (if they're lucky). This will be true as long as we maintain our current voting system'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Saric.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by voting third party, you will get them funding'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'How the FUCK does voting Third Party get them funding (directly)?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'd rather throw away my vote for a third party, then throw away my vote for someone I don't believe in'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of the federal matched funding system'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they get funding based on how their vote went'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Taokan.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The lesser evil is still evil'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an awesome point of view, Taoken'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'but it is also lesser'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'FPTP electoral systems are 2 party ONLY, there is NO other way for that system to work.  Which is why your 'Founding Fathers', which you all seem to worship for whatever reason, stated parties in politics would fuck it all up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shame so many other people, both American and British are such pussies that they won't do that'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were right, Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'FPTP is garbage. There are so many better voting systems =|'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's why I said you might as well not vote.  IF by some miracle they get elected (Jesse Ventura for Guvneh!), everyone realized just how retarded they are and R/D win next cycle.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'to be fair, parties to destroy the system quite as much as money (corporations, lobbyists, unions, random pressure groups) do'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'eep, don't destroy etc..'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ignore Hanslanda :-0 vote 3rd party'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Gary Johnsone won governer in NM in a predominantly Democrat state as an independant'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he won a second term with a larger majority'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in both GJ and JV's cases, being able to be part of the debates was key'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so vote Romney if you want to go to war, and become bankrupt'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote Obama if you want to become bankrupt, become communist, and probably go to war anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'tbh I would LOVE it for Romney to win, just so things over there might hit some critical point to get the slacktivists off their collective arses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And there it is again. The old Obama is a Communist schtick.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well he is'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'flawless logic'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly. Obama is a COmmunist because Tigernuts said so!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Obama is RIDICULOUSLY right wing, but jaded McCarthyists who see anything left of centre as 100% commie are too blind, stupid and unwilling to see otherwise.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, because Obama said so.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his childhood was spent among people high up in the communist movement, the people he sought out in college likewise, and he is administering and centralising government full of stasi-style organisations'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Hanslanda. Obama never said that he was Communist.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You've been watching too much Faux Noise.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'AND he believes in global wealth redistribution'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You want left of centre, try the French Socialists.  They are *slightly* left of centre.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He never said that either, TigerNUTS.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he did so'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Quote?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I want the full quote, not words snipped out of context.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, he really did.  He did not use the word "communist", but he outlined the entire strategy.  He also said in 2008 that he was going to bankrupt the coal industry.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'wow, I don't believe that. Quotes please'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, Hanslanda, that means he's a Communist. Bankrupting coal industry? Communist!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '"I...want...money...to...be...redistributed...worldwide" [quote compiled over 2 years]'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Flawless shitty logic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'was this before or after performing satanic rituals?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, no, this was before sealing his college records and spending millions on hiding who he really is (actual qutoe from some nutbag on this channel, possibly TigerNUTS from two days ago).'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Why aren't those records public anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because they aren't by fucking law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'Vakieh's comment is hilarious'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what are you having difficulty coming to grips with?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'College admissions records are sealed for EVERYBODY by law.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm having difficulty coming to grips with your complete lack of quotes to support your BULLSHIT arguments.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It took me some years to realize that there is a good reason to publish every piece of dirt on presidential candidates: you eliminate the possibility of blackmail'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how many times did Obama release his birth certificate?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Some overzealous IRS lawyer should just hack into the IRS computers and publish Romney's tax records.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a good reason to hold back your tax returns, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that resolved exactly zero doubts for the nutcases who weren't going to believe him anyways and still don't'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he still hasn't, Twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or someone should just doctor up some legit-looking ones that shows Romney only paid 9% in taxes or some shit. Romney would be unable to refute them without releasing his actual records.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'zero times, since apparently it doesn't exist, but the hawaii people released a computerized version'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that it really matters'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'really? You don't remember Donald Trump getting egg on his face'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'do I have to find a link for you? the long form that is'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'At least the original one seems to have vanished. However, for the US of all places to have a rule saying you must be born there or whatever to be presiden is just fail.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you mean the fraudulent one they created to post on the whitehouse website?:-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Donald Trump is an arse'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they also used the time machine from MIB 3 to go back and have the newspapers publish his birth in the paper right ? :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he needs his wig executing'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'See why I'm completely exasperated by TigerNUTS? He throws out outrageous arguments and accusations on a daily basis while refusing to back them up. It takes close to an hour to get him to produce sources and when he does, they don't actually prove much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Didn't the Romney campaign just release a bunch of tax return info showing that Romney pays normal amounts of tax for his type of income?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the issue, Twyst, the certificate he released was fake'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Proof, please.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they'd lost it, or it couldn't be found, they should have just said so'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Twyst, you underestimate the cunningness of Kenyan Communists. His parents CLEARLY planned for him to become President of the USA one day and DOCTORED that announcement!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obviously you can still claim that (a) the tax system should be changed or (b) Romney should voluntarily have paid extra taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, Tinada. Not at all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Romney paid all the taxes he was required to'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it wasn't enough, then it's a problem with the system, not with Romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We don't know that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The point is Mittens stated that (a) was false, such that (b) was not required.  Which as we all know is bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'We know he did that for 2011 and POSSIBLY for 2010.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and so many democrats regularly didn't.  Weird.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not for any of the other years.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure Romney would publish his full tax returns for other years if Obama published his birth certificate and college records'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'wow'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I doubt that, Tigger.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since neither are going to happen, you might as well choose something more productive to talk about'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Wait, gonna go with Tiggr'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mittens said that if he ever paid MORE than he needed to in taxes, he'd be unqualified for the position of POTUS, yet his 2011 tax returns shows that he DELIBERATELY didn't deduct as much as he could from his taxes in order to actually pay that 14% he so proudly claims to have always paid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you don't have to provide more than 2 years anyways.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like voting for Gary Johnson :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So, according to Mitt Romney himself, he is unfit for the position of POTUS.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Reuters at least wrote that he was slightly under 15%, as expected for someone who has income from capital rather than work'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It will never be fucking enough for you Birthers. Even IF he publishes those things, you'll just go after his elementary school records or some shit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tax system is written by people like Obama and Romney so that they and their corporate chums/partners/puppetmasters don't have to pay any'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or pay very little'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It will all be either forgeries of they faked the information on the various records.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no President in the history of this country has had to provide his birth certificate besides Obama'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except Obama wants to change the system. The Republicans just d'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/22/us-usa-campaign-romney-taxes-idUSBRE88K11Y20120922'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why not?  Are you going to (as a party) admit you were out of line asking for 2.5 times the required tax releases?  Not likely.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'most candidates for the past 30 years have shown multiple years of tax returns'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Except Obama wants to change the system. The Republicans just won't let him. So SHUT UP, TigerNUTS.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he does not want to change the system'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I'm sorry, but I feel I should know what the POTUS did during his formative, preschool years.  WHEN ARE WE GOING TO SEE THE FINGER PAINTING, HUH??? WHEN?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'EVERY single candidate for the past 30 years have released, like, 10 years of tax returns.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama wants to change what system?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mitt Romney's campaign DEMANDED all vice presidential candidates to provide them with 10 years worth of tax returns!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The tax system, Tinada.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Mitt gave Mccain 27 years of tax returns'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'McCain selected Palin :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And McCain selected Palin over Mitt.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That should tell you something's seriously fucking wrong with his tax returns.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I'd be more worried that Romney is a warmongering Jewish-boot-licker that wants to turn the middle east into a glssy plain, not that he minimised his taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '2008 had that big upswell of "pussy = votes", though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Reuters seems to believe Romney just published info for the past 20-some years. At any rate the taxes paid don't tell us much about Romney, just about shortcomings of the US tax code'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Mittens has been campaigning to be POTUS for the better part of, what, 1.5 decades? Yet McCain chose a no-named airhead from Alaska before him!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seems like a bit of a strange choice of priorities to me'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tinada: Sources for Reuters believing this?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I am comforted by the fact you almost never beat a sitting president.  So Mittens is like the 'have at it, tiger' for the GOP...hopefully.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the Tax returns are just one issue that exemplify the kind of person Mitt Romney is'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tinada, there's a popular theory that Romney cheated on his taxes and took the immunity deal the government gave to tax cheaters a few years back.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you can try reading the linked article and related ones, I guess'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and bashing the policy towards Israel is a great way to NOT be elected in America'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's pretty much the only reason I can think of him being so vehemently against releasing his tax records.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's pretty fucked up in itself, Twyst, Jews are what, 2% of your population?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Florida'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell me how the fuck that works, exactly?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'YOU read that fucking article, Tinada.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Given Romney's access to top tax lawyers, it's reasonable to assume he could pay near-zero taxes if he wanted to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'This is what it fucking says: "A letter from his accountants saying he paid an effective federal tax rate of at least 13.6 percent annually over 20 years"'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'could be there were other reasons, but the fact his dangly bits were between his legs instead of in his shirt was working against Mitt when McCain's campaign was thinking their best chance to win/increase votes was to get a woman involved.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'A fucking LETTER from HIS ACCOUNTANT'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's old news. And it in no way proves ANYTHING.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Summoner Yuna's question.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I assume it's no worse than a made up electronic version of a birth certificate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sure. Get caught in a BLATANT LIE. Shrug. Typical.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah, you're another Birther. That explains a lot.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sorry Yuna, that doesn't prove anything, yet a minute ago you were shrieking like a banshee because we doubted Obama's fake birth record?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hypocrite?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'his accountant claiming that he paid the taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Here's an idea: Move. Leave the U.S. if you hate the Communist Kenyan Muslim so much.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'is hearsay'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hyp-o-crite!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yuna - funny story is Tiggr lives in the UK :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the birth certificate is evidence, actual physical evidence'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cackle'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If you read some lines up, will find me commenting that having a birth rule at all is wrong, so I must be a pretty weird kind of "birther".'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I know that. I wasn't atlking to him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You think Obama doctored his birth certificate, which means you in turn believe him to not be a natural born citizen of the U.S., which makes you a birther.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look out, Yuna-logic coming'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how is that illogical'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I usually have to take care not to confuse Tinada and Tigernuts when they speak on Debate because their names both start with Ti. I guess I can stop doing that seeing as how they're both loons.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so if Tinada weighs the same as a duck....'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '....she's made of wood....'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That's like saying that if you believe in Jesus Christ, adhere to the Christian faith and go to Church, you're not necessarily a Christian. Yeah... sure...'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'how about this.... despite hundreds of thousands of people trying (for god knows what reason)... nobody can prove that Obama's birth certificate is fake? That's the point when you should be wondering why people are trying to prove it fake in the first place? It's not like any other president has had their freaking birth certificate, of all things, challenged...'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't think Obama doctored his birth certificate. I think that since so far, the guys in Hawaii have not managed to release anything but a computerized record, which I'm pretty certain didn't exist 50 years ago, the original birth certificate has gone missing. As far as I am concerned, Obama was born on whatever Hawaiian hospital the released versions refer to.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Now, I might not be a birth certificate expert, but I'm fairly certain Kenyan birth certificates look a LITTLE different to US ones.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ann fucking Coulter said that Obama's a genuine citizen and called the Birhterws crazy. Ann fucking Coulter.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Game.Set.Match.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You said he doctored his electronic birth certificate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'And, if anyone has not understood that yet, I don't care where he was born.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I assume it's no worse than a made up electronic version of a birth certificate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm pretty sure Barack didn't sit down in his office with photoshop'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, at his level, he's got way better tools.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You know why the certificate released was electronic? Because that's how ALL birth certificates are stored in Hawaii nowadays, even the ones from before they introduced electronic birth certificates.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I said the census/whoever people in Hawaii, who produced that thingy, made/released an electronic version, not some 1961 original.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like Tinada said, far more likely the original coulnd't be found, so trying to avoid a possible scandal they got someone to fabricate one electronically'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why fake one, when you can just have a new one printed up and then aged?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You said it was, and I quote, "a made up" electronic version.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you going to claim that you simply misspoke now?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or that some liberal interpretation of the English language makes "made up" not equal "fake"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I just done reading my fake copy of "A tale of two cities" on my kindle'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who the fuck still has their birth certificate, anyway?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because dickens didn't have electronic screens'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i do'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, you're nuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So who cares, really?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I do.  Can't do shit without it, because if you don't have it you have to send in for a new one.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty normal to have a birth certificate, since you need it to get a ddriving license or a passport'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you've lost yours, your'e a fucking idiot'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and a clumsy one at th at'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you can have a birth certificate or other documentation'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I meant made up as opposed to the original paper version, if anyone has seen that, feel free to point me in the right direction. I still don't care where he was born, and neither should us election rules.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure in Sweden we store ours electronically nowadays.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I never need anything more than my passport'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I lost it in a fire.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and unlike Obama, I was born outside of the United States so my birth certificate does me no good anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm orf to bed a mo, but i'm so glad Yuna has managed to deflect any form of attention away from Obama's naff record of what he's actually DONE, and instead concentrated on completely non-issues'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not like a Democrat at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What has Obama done, then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, YOU weren't the loon to bring up his birth certificate at all, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'birthers have been trying to prove Obama's birth certificate is fake for YEARS, there are 100k's of these people trying to "prove his certificate is fake"... guess what, they haven't! And somehow you think THE MOST LIKELY STORY is that someone fabricated Obama's birth certificate? And they somehow weren't caught despite the efforts of an entire deluded party (up to 1/2 of the population) in America? Do you not realize how utterly insane that sounds?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lesse, NDAA, Drone attack spike, more ill-advised intervention in the middle east, proliferation of the police state and creeping central control'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the   NATIONAL     DEBT'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the national debt is bogus'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I did sort of mean good things, really'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada meeps at Tigernuts!
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the devaluation of the dollar, the unemployment rate, the massaging of the unemployment rate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the largest number of people on food stamps in american history'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, it's his fault that he hasn't turned around the economy in 4 yewars.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Those things you list don't count as good (and you can't credit Obama with everything)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because clearly, you can just magick away a near-depression era economy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'with active resistance to everything you propose'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'closing guantanemo, pulling out of afghanistan'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's not like the Republicans have steadfastedly filibustered most of his bills, tying his hands.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not because it is good/bad, but because YOU proposed it'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they haven't, yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'democrats had full control from 2008 to 2010'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That is also true, US problems go back 40 years and remaking the system would realistically take maybe 3 terms'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, you FUCKTARD.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You clearly do not understand how the filibuster system works.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you know what a filibuster is right?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'ever heard the term super majority?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The democrats NEVER had a filibuster-proof majority these past 4 years!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Closing Gitmo and closing down Afghanistan is still, what, more than a few hundred thousand troops still?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like talking to a toddler.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'It's like talking to a crazy cat lady'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we have no other theater to just transfer them to, so the likely outcome is more unemployment. :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'tigernuts lets actually debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now he's denying uncontroversial facts provable through ACTUAL FUCKING VIDEO of the Republicans filibustering the shit out of bills.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '"full control" is not really much control at all when you consider the oft-used weapon called the "fillibuster"'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'ad hominem attacks = no argument'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'But no. Obama probably doctored all of those documents and videos.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So we're saying that basically, Obama could have been replaced by McCain, or a toaster,  and nothing significant would have changed since neither side had reliable majorities?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we are saying McCain would have been WORSE'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Democrats likely wouldn't have filibustered the shit out of McCain's policies.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'likely, may not'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So McCain would've managed to pass more bills. But he's batshit insane, so the economy likely would've tanked even more.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'likely, may have'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'possibly'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Tigernuts. We're not PSYCHIC. We cannot know how a McCain presidency would've been.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we would be fighting another pointless war with Iran right now'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'tinada, only if the democrats make it their #1 priority to stall all progress when in a minority as the republicans have'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You're actually attacking us for not being psychic?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'based on comments he has recently made'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's odd, Yuna, because on everything else you demand absolute facts'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'backed up by quotes'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Tigernuts, the Poster Child of strawmanning.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And insanity. And ignorance. And redneckness.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'seems like some of that birther logic, Yuna.  If they were likely to be that willing to work with the right kind of republican, what the hell happened when they actually had THEIR kind of democrat?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better a redneck than a cunt :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'again, ad hominems'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go get your foodstamps like a good baglady'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He who knew not what a filibuster was, yet claimed the Republicans didn't use it and that the Democrats had full control for 2 years should shut the fuck up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'blame the system'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, I'm blaming you for your ignorance and refusal to educate yourself before speaking.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'any system can be broken if the participants decide to throw a hissy fit'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And that's like saying "Blame the knife".'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'as this "debate" clearly illustrates'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because some idiot decided to stab someone else.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'That's pretty much how left wing policy works'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'right wing politics are sooo great'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess we're lucky Chemosh and that 3rd person whose name starts with an S but whose full name eludes me isn't here.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should run'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Imagine Tigernuts, only 3 of them,.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd vote for you'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'All ranting and agreeing with each other.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I call them the Triumvirate of Insanity.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're an excellent example of why Democracy is failing'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how so'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'please be specific'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because I demand facts, you know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And education.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because if 51% of people are fucktards and decide that the other 49% should be gassed, then to the gas chamber they go'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or 66/33 or 75/25 depending on your voting variant'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I never said you should be gassed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Where the Hell did that even come from?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and neither did i say that you said'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was a commentary on the flaws of democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I see what you are saying Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and that's true'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"you're an excellent example of why Democracy is failing because if 51% of people are fucktards and decide that the other 49% should be gassed, then to the gas chamber they go".'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Sur3e. Sure.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'however that is the point of democracy'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it isn't failing per se, just failing to do what you want it to'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And that's rich coming from Chemosh' best friend, Chemosh, he who claims Hitler didn't really hate the Jews and that the Holocaust is all made up.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's why the US is a republic and why you have a constitution'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so how is democracy failing then'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'seems kind of contradictory'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'd keep my constitutional monarchy (where the regent has zero power) over the U.S. system of toothless politics and filibusters any day.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because his preferred candidate isn't winning. Democracy only works when he wins.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not defending the UK system, it is flawed in a variety of different ways'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you didn't answer my question'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, the regent doesn't have zero power'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Name some political power that the King of Sweden has, Tigernuts.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'The holocaust was made up, 9/11 was a conspiracy, and Obama wasn't born in the U.S. . These are called CONSPIRACY THEORIES and are complete garbage. A result of human tendency for confirmation bias run totally wild'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'He who has no idea what a filibuster is CLEARLY knows ALL there is to know about the Swedish monarchy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have no idea about Sweden's King, other than he's probably quite cold'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what was the question, Twyst?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then why the FUCK did you claim that he has any political power?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: ''debate -h 10' or whatever'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I wasn't talking about Sweden, who the fuck cares about them?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but I'll do you the favor and look it up'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"I'd keep my constitutional monarchy"'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wait, let me get this straight.  The two people with the most invested in a debate about who should be elected President of the US aren't actually citizens able to affect the outcome?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in answer Twyst, look at the EU and it's relationship to it's member states'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you even British or has your elementary education so truly failed you to failed to comprehend that when I say "my", I mean "MY, Yuna's, king" and not "YOUR, Tigernuts', king"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I asked how democracy was failing'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I don't know where you're from, Yuna, assumed it was Singapore, or some other god awful hole like that'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Whoever gets elected U.S. president ostensibly rules over a country whose political comings and goings will directly over indirectly affect me and my country for the next 4 years.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'xenophobia isn't very attactive mate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EU bills are written and submitted by people who are not elected and not accountable, Twyst. 84% of UK bills originate from them'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And you never bothered to educate yourself on that befor claiming that the King of whichever country I'm from has political power.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Because why should you bother with checking up on facts before throwing out random assertions?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Never stops you, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Prove it, Tigernuts. Quote me where I've done that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or just recall instances where I've done that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you always assume you know what the other person's stance is'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's kinda easy when you make your stances so clearly known.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you always assume you know what other people belive in '
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you're often wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not really. You're just LYING.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and even when you're right about their stance, you fail to understand it, but still claim it's somehow wrong or has no value'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what am I lying about now, oh swedish fruitcake?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yes, Tinada.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'hm?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Non-Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is your proposal to fix it then Tigernuts'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm SORRY For misinterpreting you claiming that Obama's electronic birth certificate was "made up" as you being a Birther.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada tickles Summoner Yuna.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts sighs.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'that's ok, I was probably a bit unclear'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm going to answer that question (Tigernuts') the Tigernuts way: By not acknowledging it at all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the document released on the web by the white house has been proven to be counterfeit'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By whom?='
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for all other information, see Tinada's summary'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'must have missed the impeachment hearing'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'that's the kind of thing you REALLY need a source for'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By that no-name "private investigator"?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Orly Tates'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Who only examined it by looking at the pictures?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'short for Oh really?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, really, Taint?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Meanwhiles, Snopes have actually HANDLED the document.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly, Snopes are in on the conspiracy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm sure if they were allowed to investigate properly then they'd find out how they went from the original document to a badly doctored Adobe Photoshop document and why'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like he doesn't know what the word "source" means.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Snopes has access to everything.  Nobody is able to do stuff or lock stuff away so that Snopes can't find it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Then again, he IS a Birther. Maybe we should treat him like a "special child".'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have Internet, you can look it up as easily as I can'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Snopes is shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, the burden of proof is on the opposition to prove him wrong, not on him.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'About as accurate as locked wikipedia entries'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can deny NDAA exists too, if you like'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Also Yuna does have a point. I'm Norwegian, but I know far more about US politics, since, well, for practical purposes, US politics affects me more..'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh hey, the NEWEST fringe member of the Insanity Corner (not yet a full member of the Triumvirate, but he's getting there), DosseT.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they are the Wikipedia of conspiracy theory/paranormal.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I guess the Triumvirate is about to become a Quartet.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna hasn't quite twigged that when you have fruitloops running America, it affects everyone'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now you're blaming Obama for your blatant insanity?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'If conspiracy = "I don't want to believe it", then you're right'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Clearly he's a wizard.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Unfortunately, conspiracy means "to conspire against," which is how the world works'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you know what is funny to me? If Romney could get away with it (assuming he hasn't already) he would pay no taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but he bags on people who don't pay income taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Does HE, though? I haven't taken a look at the specifics of his tax returns. Did he actually pay income tax in 2011?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Anyhew, I believe there'll be a position opening for you at the Whitehouse, Yuna: Master of the Stool'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'before this devolved into a name calling affair what was the debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'anyone with money knows that it's much better to pay less taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's demonstrably false'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's how the entire financial sector works.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Twyst: If Yuna is involved, it always descends into name calling'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'taxes are zero in Somalia'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'their financial sector is BOOMING'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Twyst.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I consider it stating the facts when I claim that Tigernuts is nuts. After all, he acknowledges it himself with his own username.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Isn't the Somalian "finance" sector mostly "yay, we hijacked an oil tanker and got paid to let it go"? :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're fooling no-one, Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah I was being sarcastic'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'goodnight, and the best of luck to you all!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Insanity has left the room. Well, ONE of them.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Saric starts to hear the faint sounds of a cricket chirping.
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So let's back to some sane and important topics. Haagen-Dazs or Ben & Jerry's?'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'too expensive. Homemade'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'and by homemade I mean go to kroger and buy it'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't eat much ice cream after dropping out of the conventional high carb diet earlier this year'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'I saw one of Ben & Jerry's shakes had 2100 calories in it... almost died right there'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Eh. I'm one of those annoying Asians who never gain weight. I'm 5"6' and weigh 114 lbs.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And I eat all the time. I prefer Haagen-Dazs. Because I love their macadamia ice cream. The chocolate covered B&J's one just doesn't do it for me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't really have any weight to lose, and since I was fit/healthy already, I didn't expect noticeable health benefits from halving carb intake and dropping sugar/grains.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I was pleasantly surprised.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'go raw'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Nod Tinada.. Low carb == beast mode.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'damn if I can remember the name, but there's some premium brand going around now that's like half the cost of those with much fancier flavors.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'really embarasses the crap out of Daas, too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why the Hell is Hotmail advertising Zoosk?!'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's like spam, only I have no choice but to at least gleam it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'kinda appropriate, given all the hotmail porn addresses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'this needs to be discussed, Alex Jones -------->  http://youtu.be/Q1duQwVnW6A'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'is there a *text synopsis* for those without youtube access'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Any Bard members on debate? It's going to take an artist to summarize that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'a book with a lot of youtube link-references is going to be a failure '
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's Alex Jones ranting about evil cops in black uniforms with moustaches harassing and staring at people and how they want us to worship them, but they are weak and they are scum ugh I just...ugh they're SCUM!'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'imagine reading a newspaper where the news was mostly links to youtube and facebook -- that newspaper is goiung to go chap[ter 11 or bankrupt fast'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'youtube references are like undigested analogies'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'http://youtu.be/rI63qnjXByE <--------everything in this one is the TRUTH!'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'you are not going to trick the wary into watching something obscene or illegal'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Its similar to the first one I put up, if there is obscene stuff you should report me'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'not going to bother to look at youtube crap with or without a text synopsis of what is seen/heard there -- reading text is far safer than watching/hearing graphic raw material'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'most youtube crap is tmi crap'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well why complain about it just don't say shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that's what he does ... complains about the most ridiculous things :p'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'looking at, translating, and processing, a lot of internet-link-references (is like work) is similar to reading incoherent Chemosh babbling something -- i no longer bother to attempt to decipher Chemosh babblings at the first or second indication of incoherence and or obfuscation'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What you just posted has deeply hurt our brains more than any video I have ever posted ever.'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'perhaps you are degenerating into mental-laziness by posting youtube-references, and are unable to translate each youtube reference into a cogent coherent concise synopsis'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'They were funny youtube videos based around putting a conspiracy guy's rants to a beat. Way to go Zela you are the Buzz Killington of aardwolf.'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'but is watching the youtube of Alex Jones to a musical beat educational, or at least eye-candy (aka: is Alex Jones handsome) '
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wenq: 'anyone here ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Kirchner still not happy that IMF won't let her manipulate economic data, I see'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'member of the Washing Institute for Near Eat Policy (WINEP) openly calls for a false flag attack to allow USA to attack Iran in a televised press conference'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoaLbbAix0&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're sure they said 4th grade?'
T3/r7/2012-09-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'For fucks sake.. Why my city gotta have clown shit in it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Gotta ton of lies on that nobody seriously believes that has any good g'damn sense..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I feel like every damn street fight I had was for fuckin nuffin..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'this why it don't really get much respect from other cities..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'My stepfather once spoke out on my behalf.. & He knew things was rough & left soon after.. Overwhelmin force is sumtin else when someone is jealous of ya rep.. Seriously'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I have already cut ties wif certain friends because they now act as if they wanna play along wif the lie..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'My whole life I had it tough.. I wasn't born wit the silver-spoon shit.. Not even too mad about that but shit. My resume won't work to get work now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'dig what I'm sayin?! This shit is big because my say real.. I mean no offense to others out there & Not even sayin you don't hold your own when ya gotta.. But I'm in the middle of some of the stupidest craziest shit I have ever had to come face2face with.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You are on a computer, connected to the internet, playing a game which streams text at you. I somehow doubt you are as 'ghetto' as you are intimating.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'they even tried to place religious orientation like they know me & I spoke the same thing I always spoke for years.. No I dun totally believe in jesus like that But I do take their word for it on some notes..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'too bad the pictures aren't on the site.. Want my youtube?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'this shit is very serious.. You read my say wrong.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You mean you post to youtube, not world star hip hop? Another point against your 'ghetto' 'cred''
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's not serious. cancer is fucking serious'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'world star... Oh I seen girls dancin on graves with that.. IT's always catchin "Clown activity"'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And serious doesn't like it at ALL.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't even understand what the topic is'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'True thugs do not beg for attention like that...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'we tell it how it iz just like on the westcoast'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't know what he's sayin' if you know what i'm sayin''
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Bigman, you are high. Either smoke more so you can't type, or stop smoking.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'drugs are bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'fuck you, drugs are awesome'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Now if I say I'm in the middle of some crazy shit.. I don't care if you could care less "Just say ya don't care" but Dissin the say gets ya nowhere'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'no!!!'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's the people who suck. the drugs are not to be blamed for that'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'actually drugs are awesome for some people, and some people shouldn't be allowed witin a 100 yards of them'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'understand?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My double exp sound trigger is Homer's "Mmm yeah Drugs, you gotta have drugs"'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I live with folk that'll start trouble.. Record ya fam fight & try to ruin ya.. That's what I'm livin through right now..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there are some exceptions tho. shit like fentanyl or crack aren't awesome'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'how old are you? 16?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I had to educate myself through it all'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Rocko's Thug Life. Represent. :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'so I'm stating this just incase they end up closing the street up again to end up fightin me again...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'joke if you will but just like that "F.E.M.A" shit when the katrina disaster struck.. This iz REAL shit'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://bit.ly/S1h4Ea'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'when cops don't come to help out.. You'll realize you can't joke so easily all the time...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'can you please explain the fuck you're talking about?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Hood problems with clowns who have backup...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'now put that to layman's terms'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tofting: 'why not just move somewhere quieter?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'aight.. I'm done.. That's all I wanted to say so if play magically stops for some reason & my play ain't the same.. Ya know I couldn't call cops ahead of time at least..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I just said the resume won't work not too long ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'the job lottery hasn't even picked me..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'afk'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The ghetto (which he doesn't live in) is having problems with overly exuberant gang members (which he has never seen) with lots of gang member friends (which he also hasn't seen)'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Dude I live In philadelphia'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: '& I been to new york.. New Jersey & even other parts of the US'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'don't be so oblivious'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'we don't need gangs here'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'eureka and abe live in philly. i bet they're thugs as well'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'you can just get set up & fucked up like in a 12 century witch hunt..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'here'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'if caught at the right time'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I asked abe what he thinks'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: '& he mentions nuffin to me'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'so they kinda caught wind of what's goin on'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i bet he's outside menacing the hood'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'did you just type out 'nuffin'?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'No.. they probably realize that playin the low-porfile is safer durin some moments'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'people in my city act even stupider than you do here with your description'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Last I heard, all the big gangs were sniffing out trash talkers on muds, and HOLY SHIT you don't want them hearing you badmouth them on public channels.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'you don't see that as danger if help was needed?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'still on the gang thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'what are you in a trance or sumtin?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'read what I fuckin sed!'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If a lot of people hang around making trouble, they are a gang.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'no.. They are "Assumed" to be "Sometimes"'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'No, because a bunch of people hanging around making trouble is the definition of a gang.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'c'mon man.. Wake up & recognize grey areas in life dawg..'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'well then you know what that is? a "Biased" view'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'If a cat is a 4 legged feline animal, just because it might have different coloured fur than the last cat I saw, doesn't mean this thing isn't a cat.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'There is no grey area.  People in a group, going around making trouble, are a gang.  Because the name for a bunch of people going around making trouble is...drumroll...A MOTHERFUCKING GANG.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'Yeah well.. If you can't just see a group of people as just a school let-out or sumtin then that's a serious problem'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'it might even be a work force from a yard...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'then what's a mob?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'More people than a gang.  A collection of gangs, as it were.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Really R. Bigman: 'I'm not even gonna continue arguin.. I just had to tell a asshat outside I'm not jokin.. Afk'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'oo'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i still don't know what he was sayin' if you know what i'm sayin''
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'to quote Butters, 'Yes, I now what you are saying.''
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I live in the hood'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Charles Manson is amazing http://youtu.be/2UGmmoSJkbI'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, women charged with 'felony vandalism' for writing on a sidewalk in chalk'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what, no at ladies screeching on the channel tonight?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: '?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'You know, Romney may not have said it so eloquently, but he was right to a degree. This viral video with the lady voting for Obama because she was given a free cell phone confirms it. Really sad that people died in wars to secure freedom that can be bought with a cell phone.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the people are bought off, the country will be ruiend'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ruined*'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it happened here a decade ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(UK)'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shit, nearly 2 decades ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Romney didn't give me a cellphone'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a process that started after th war'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, but his empployers will steal all your land'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as will obama's'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there will be a difference though'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'the fact that people are voting based on bribes is pretty lousy, but I don't think that the majority of the people are receiving bribes to make a vote'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its really sad. I'm a singin, "bye bye ms. American Pie.. drove my chevy to the levy but the levy was dry.."'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm still concerned that they are charging people with felony vandalism for writing on a sidewalk in chalk'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats... kinda a slippery slope'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'saw some seriously odd interpretations of stats today'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i might be tempted to stick a tenner on Romney just purely because of the decent odds'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can get 15/4 on Romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: '?? his odds are much worse now than they were a few weeks ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, i doubt that, nothing has really changed'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'intrade odds after the RNC was 55 obama / 45 romney, now they are 76 obama / 24 romney'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saric: 'http://www.realclearpolitics.com'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately for their supporters, it's complicated'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Better vote for Obama, then, must support the winning team!'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its far from "over", we haven't even had the debates. Still, videos like this one are dangerous.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately for everyone, you're screwed whoever wins'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tpAOwJvTOio'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and I hear Obama said 4 years is not enough to change anything/you can't change Washington from the inside, but at least he's still got the "hope" part'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Well, whose friends get to decide the debate format and questions, then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'And whose friends will report on the debates?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the election will be crap unless Johnson can debate with them'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'd rip them apart'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Obama's foreign policy numbers are imploding. I think he finally looked at them and decided to call Netanyahu.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama's numbers are good among the black, the poor, and single parents'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And the free celphone crowd!'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'romney's numbers are good among white men, married people, middle class workers, vets and the elderly'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'And the not-free cellphone crowd!'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think at the core of commentators who still say he has a chance are to do with comparative turnout in different groups of supporters in different states'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but chances are, Obama's supporter turnout will be lower than 2008'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I agree with that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Poor Obama seems like a fish on land when he's left without a teleprompter, facing unprepared questions.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you see him on telly saying he's export jobs?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'However, I bet the debate format will be quite restricted, with 2nd rate questions and a lack of lengthy exchanges between the candidates.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't be a debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Whoever turns out more, will win. Polls are too close everywhere to say otherwise. I've got my absentee ballot today.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know how those debates are run, the questions are scripted, the answers are scripted'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada nods at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like Romney to win just to see Yuna's face'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's worth glassing the middle east just for that'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'we talking abour elections again?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): StinkPit stops paying attention
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It is sort of hard to say, I expect Romney will be slightly less harmful for the US economy'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't bring it up!'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the same, tinada'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'it doesn't really matter if Romney wins'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'well ok, it does, we could end up in more wars'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think those wars are goign to happen anyways, thanks to the O-man.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'but on most of the big issues the Dems would just block everything major from happening at the Senate level anyways'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Netanyahu looked as serious as a heart attack at the UNGA today'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'war then collapse, or police state and end of the republic then collapse'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Air strikes at a minimum are probably going to happen. I wonder what intrade has on that. :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you do that, i pray Russia nukes the shit out of you'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i really do'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or at least all your middle east assets'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'all I know is the Dow Jones is rocking about 13.5k, and has no business there.  Unemployement still sucks, our growth still sucks, our debt and deficit still sucks, and our world political landscape still sucks.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think Iran's leaders with a nuke will be far worse than squabbling over air strikes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm sitting in bonds, waiting for cheap stock'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Seems like most Israelis, the IDF and assorted security thingies don't want an attack on Iran. Netanyahu always seemed to me to resemble Ahmadinejad in leaning toward an orthodox/messianic approach to politics'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're about as likely to get a nuke as Iraq'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all know how that ends'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'My bet is still on another attempted revolution in Iran after Syria is settled'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Well, no one can really tell how close they are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and even if they got one, so what? why should Israel and Pakistan be allowed nukes and Iran not?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Its not the people, its the leaders that I have a problem with having a nuke.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and at the end of it all, USA -----caused------ the current administration in Iran'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so they've only got themselves to blame'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Because they might actually use it...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'Iran is a "rogue state" '
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like hell it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'olawdy'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who have Iran attacked?'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'american propoganda at its finest'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'the US is one up on Iran in the countries nuked tally...'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Iran supports dubious groups which create trouble in nearby countries, that makes them rogue/eeeeefil'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Tinada, a bit like USA'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'lolololol'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'yep. that is the trouble US created at first'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Civilized nations would neeeeever do that kind of thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'they were doing just fine a long time ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'we wouldn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why you need a libertarian, pull out of the middle east and leave wellll alone'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: '??'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: ''50 i think'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'It was done twice, and when we saw the results, it should never be done again.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll save you a fucking fortune'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Everyone always loses in a nuclear war.'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'except for the cockroaches'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'not the roaches'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at StinkPit.
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'lol hivemind'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA only wants to off Iran because 120 years ago they picked sides and chose the Sunni's'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ_HaA2GHvg'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had we stayed out of the middle east, chances are they'd have westernised by nwo'
T3/r7/2012-09-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still can't believe that Middle East Think Tank guy went on live television saying that America should perform a false flag attack to excuse attacking Iran'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the lunatics have taken over the asylumn, it seems'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'sounds like the republicans'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or Aipac'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno what his political affiliation is, but it's an NGO, and he apparently has worked for global banks before'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Thats really typical bullshit ugh. It'll go unoticed by most'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unnoticed? this is the sort of person that drives policy'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, and the institute are refusing interview requests on the grounds that he'd be crucified'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, "TSA Goon caught stealing iPad from traveller at airport.... blames his wife"'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Is that the one where they rigged it with an alarm and turned it on from his porch when he denied having it?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not specifically, there is a "where is my iPad" service available for gps equipped apple products'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for proof against theft/loss'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they do hire TSA workers these days contingent upon low IQ'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some airport TSA offices even deliberately hire ex-criminals'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'not always a bad idea. a pub i used to work at hired convicted criminals (thieves, etc) as bouncers/security guards'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'all pickpockets were spotted in 3 seconds and beaten to a pulp'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true, but they've been hiring paedophiles'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perverts, and others'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perverts, and others'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'For those of you who dont know your history(well, most of you really), Afrikaner = South African whites, primarily of dutch, german and french heritage:'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Afrikaner farm owners are being murdered at a rate four times the murder rate of other South Africans, including Black farm owners. Their families are also subjected to extremely high crime rates, including murder, rape, mutilation and torture of the victims. South African police fail to investigate or solve many of these murders, which are carried out by organized gangs, often armed with weapons that police have previously confiscated. The racial character of the killing is covered up by a SA government order prohibiting police from reporting murders by race. Instead the crisis is denied and the murders are dismissed as ordinary crime, ignoring the frequent mutilation of the victims bodies, a sure sign that these are hate crimes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a hate crime, (often not a crime at all) when the agenda behind it is in keeping with the UN/Globalist agenda'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(apparently)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Thats what I thought too. That was a copypasta from a ling'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: '"link" http://violenceagainstwhites.wordpress.com/2012/08/27/genocide-watch-returns-south-africa-to-level-6/'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no doubt Yuna and Sonshi would love it because it's white supremacists and invaders being killed'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all of their farms should be owned by the state'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for the benefit of a few political elite'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay I was hoping you were being sarcastic'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'It's sad, but SA has been disintegrating under ANC.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sort of, snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Smart/educated young people emigrating doesn't leave much hope for improvement during the next generation either'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'SA had a honeymoon period under Mandela, but it is a sizzlepot of bullshit just waiting to explode'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sattire, really'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'taking the piss out of/selective exageration of reality. Humour is the only way to treat it, otherwise it would be depressing'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Look at its neighbours - you can't expect to have a decent 'bastion of civility' in the midst of so much poverty and cultural disarray.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Vakieh, so that's why collectively the west continues to plunder the continent to keep them poor'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't build Africa up, it'd be morally repugnant not to have them all starvign to death and shooting each other'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Pretty sure China is doing most of the plundering Africa-wise'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China among others'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Realistically, it's more a case of the national elites plundering the country in order to stay rich'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'China were just the last superpower to get in on the act'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'with western corporations tagging along to get free loot'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just Empirism without the direct rule'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'about 60 years ago they twigged that they could abuse the countries and extract all the material wealth without having to deal with the bullshit of actually governing them'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The West have learned Africa is not worth it, from a profit point of view.  China is able to get away with a WHOLE bunch more domestically, so they can still do the banana republic profiteering on resources, where a western government doing the same would cause local uproar'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who owns the mines, Vakieh?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'China, mostly'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Almost all African countries could stop the "plundering" quickly if the country's ruling class wanted it to stop '
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Well, when China goes in they aren't adverse to using lube, being money in official's pockets.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless something has changed radically in the last few years, Vakieh, that's not a fair representation'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was still mostly western corporations owning most of the mines'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though admittedly China has been expanding their hugely, and into areas like farming particularly'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, western investment in 'investor beneficial' industry in Africa has steadily fallen for years, where China has increased drastically.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because China twigged something that many governments haven't - Food is a commodity, and it's going to fly up in value'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, that sounds reasonable'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'underlying principle remains though - Africa is not run for the benefit of Africans'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the SA miners strike is case and point'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Talking copper as the biggest headliner, though coal, iron, other resources.  China can afford the nasty looking pictures of child minors, etc. bc their country is under lock and key - a Western government couldn't absorb that bad press'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Meanwhile, Western investment in Africa has changed to 'hey here is some money' press opportunites, and private charitable 'seed charity', wherein you increase local industry like textiles, etc to boost local markets to (hopefully) become self sustaining'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Simply because it is easier by far to get your resources from ANYWHERE but Africa.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'AHem Libya'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'When people say Africa in a 'shits going down' sense, they mean subsaharan'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Kadafi was trying to build up Africa, oddly'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't getting too far, but that was his intent'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Morocco, Algeria through Egypt, they are more readily considered an extension of the Middle East, primarily due to Ottomon homogeony'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ottoman*'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'He was...he was far from being a "bad guy" like the US media made him out to be'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same with Assad, he's not his father'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The tipping point for the West writing Africa off as a lost cause was when Rwanda and Somalia happened so close together.  Nobody wanted to set foot there again.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'In a global sense...The UN sicked the US (the UN's pitbull) on him because of his nations soverignty'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're not allowed sovereignty! look at the EU!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Qadafi was a terrible person, he wanted to raise Africa up not for his citizenry, but for himself.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You don't see that sort of public hate underneath you for nothing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really? did he have gigantic personal wealth?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'did you know the lengths gaddafi went for his people? Socialist style sure but...damn'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'He did'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'multi billionaire'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'odd, don't remember seeing him on rich lists'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And the ignorance when you say the US was the front runner in Libya's downfall is quite simply hilarious - it was FAR more UK/France/Germany.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who said that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Snooky'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah who said that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I said the US was sicked on them'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Nato was sicked on them'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, he declared most of it as 'Libyan wealth', however that wealth took the form of private jets, yachts, and the like.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but Nato is a proxy for the U.S.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah he lived like a king. Most kings do'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's pretty ordinary for a dictator, it's little different to any other major corporation head'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(or king)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Right, you only asked if he was rich'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'That actually has nothing to do with the way he subjugated his people'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But Saddam built castles on the fuckin sand and let his people suck a big dick'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody ever said he didn't subjugate his people'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Gadaffi as well'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'K'daffi was no Saddam by far'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'BY FAR'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he did, but many countries do'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Saddam was WONDERFUL to any citizen who happened to be born to the right race and religion.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But holy shit, if you spoke out of turn, or were a Kurd...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'wonderful is a bit much'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'He didnt spend billions on bringing irrigation to his peoples crops'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether it's one person acting as a dictator over a country, or a ruling group acting over a corrupt or broken parliamentary system, or you're an oligarch abusing the power of monopoly or market position'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the same shit, just different label, different paint on the walls, slightly different circumstances'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Bear in mind Iraq lived for 2 decades under first war, then crippling sanctions.  Nothing's going to be peaches and cream during that'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Qadafi and Saddam both had their bullshit, though Qadafi never gassed villages, I'll give him that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Saddam never shared ALL of Libya's oil profits with his people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Qadafi gave oil money to citizens? Doubtful.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's true Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there's the fault, Vakieh, you're wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's a bad mis-apprehension on the part of the people here'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's NEVER corrected by the media'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even Iran subsidises food significantly using oil money'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so does Saudi Arabia, and most other of the dictator states in the middle east'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah its the oil for food program'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'extortion by the West'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have 'welfare' in the US and UK and the west, but that's robbing the people to give to other people'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so who's worse?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'K'daffi was going to try to unite Africa under the gold Dinar currency and he had to be brought down because of fiat money profits. Bottom lone'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'justify!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'bottom line'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'robbing is a harsh term'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no one starved because they had to pay taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'there was nothing just about it and that one left a really bad taste in my mouth'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax collection is legalised robbery by the state'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not strictly true, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Reading some google, all I can find on the oil money being given to citizens is it was complete and utter bullshit said by Qadafi's regime with no actual money being given'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Until I see a reputable link, I'm calling that bullshit.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its inherent though'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone's channeling Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'rofl, because I disagree with you?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'taxes are a fraction of your earnings, not neglible but a small fraction'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at spain, taxes and austerity is causing poverty, poverty is causing people to need to hunt around in trash cans for food'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A -> B -> C'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'taxes and austerity are at odds'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'austerity is put in place when countries don't want to raise taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Ahhhhhhhh - in 2008, Qadafi said he wanted to, and put in legislation for the money to be given to the citizens.  End 2009, the legislation is held up by the Libyan parliament/congress.  By the time the Arab Spring rolled in, the legislation was forgotten, never passed.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's why republicans argue for cutting back social spending programs like medicare and social security'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so they don't have to pay taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'I haven't been following the whole thing... but the Libyan government did (kinda-sorta) share the oil wealth with it's people by subsidizing bread prices and other essentials.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Kinda funky, given Qadafi had 100% power over the parliament.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/10/libya-mixed-reactions-towards-bread-prices-double-raise.html'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's the link vakieh wanted'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Ahhh Vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Social security/medicare/medicaid will have to be cut significantly unless some new supertech kicks long-term economic growth upward'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Well, it's not exactly "here's your oil money, thanks for being our loyal subjects" ... and it's a far cry from the palatial living of the elite, but they did do a little for the people.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh I checked it your right:('
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I was close, but he did WANT to right? what does that say?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well the issue i have with that, tryst, is that you're accepting only two polarised possibilities'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I see a drop in subsidy.  I see nothing on oil money being given.  It was all a political stunt.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'okay what options am I missing'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'But that's the bullshit Snooky, the man had unlimited domestic power, he could have said 'this is so' and there is would be law'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'By saying 'congress says no', he means 'the congress said what I told them to say, like always''
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) An Oath: 'Well, the money they used probably came from oil sales. Where else was the Libyan government generating income?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you see the only options as "raise more taxes from the people to give to the poor" or "cut taxes and make everyone starve"'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Well thats all politics. Just look at Obama's jobs bill. It was never meant to pass it was meant to make the GOP look like dicks. And the Dems and Reps are there to put on a fake show for us all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whatever happened to fair taxation across everyone?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what would be fair taxation'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a hundred for me, one for you... to be shared. Another hundred for me, one for you guys...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Because Tigernuts, the free market places value based on people.  And people are dumb as shit, more often than not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as long as you're not confusing capitalism with free markets'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the two are not the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the difference is that the  bill would've been passed if the gop relented'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So taxation needs to be different, because a singer deserves no more money than a farmer, but woah there, BIG difference in pay'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with that'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not about deserve'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so what is unfair about taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Exactly, it is about the value PEOPLE place on goods and services. And like I said, people are dumb'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'll speak from the point of view as a UK resident, i can comment on my situation better'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'shoot'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Libyans also got free electricity. And free unemployment if they went to school but could not find a job for what they went to school for'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://painfultruths.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/10/gaddafis-pimps-still-peddling-his-lies.html'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a vast and complicated tax system'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Snooky, you are spouting Qadafi's propaganda'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lol I was thinking the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's still a drop in the bucket'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the media and politicians are obsessed with income tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is a small part of the tax gamut'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in developed countries, most people can afford electricity easily, in normal times...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the fact of the matter is, most taxes raised are not based on consumption, or ability to pay'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sonshi, it doesn't matter, bc it never happened'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a fair taxation would be, in my opinion, an income tax, and a consumption tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we won't get it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, we have that here in Au, being a combination income scaled tax, and a GST'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with a scaled income tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i understand there needs to be tierring... for now'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with having tax-free allowances'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with tax credits'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is wrong with scaled income taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree with means testing'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'income tax is scaled with income by definition of it being a %age'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'flat taxes are regressive'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Not to be a dick, but where are the sources in that debunking website Vakieh. I'm mad now'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'flat taxes are not regressive'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there is a minimum amount needed to survive'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are just not "progressive" (using the taxation definition of progressive)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '2k out of 20k is alot more damaging than 200k out of 2 million'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Snooky, not finding concise sources is why I didn't paste that to begin with, though there are several newspaper articles if you c&p each point into google'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'flat taxes would either lead people into being taxed to death like you claimed earlier'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or no taxes whatsoever'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it wouldn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay Vakieh I will totally do that'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you say that, and yet i pay 60% of may wages in taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of all the reasons i've already mentioned'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how much do you pay for insurance'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'insurance of what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'health insurance'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'twyst - keep in mind that you are arguing with someone who launches personal attacks on people who are not even in the conversation with blatant lies... there's one word I can think of for such people...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're playing straight into that trap of being obsessed with income tax, when it's all the rest that does the damage'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'health contributions constitute around 1/3rd of my total tax tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, tiered income tax %s is because income, like most other things based in a capitalist OR free market, are all based on people's value placed on goods and services.  And once again, people are DUMB and cannot be trusted to direct a market.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on top of which medication and private treatement has to be bought'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'private treatment has to be bought?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, Twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so you can't go to the hospital to treat ailments'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not all, no'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Okay well it is still true that Gaddafi had a Pedophile assassination force'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'For fuck sake, i've been saying this for months, don't you guys get it yet?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't typically listen to debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'nor do I keep logs'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'NATIONAL HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED BASED ON COST, IDEOLOGY, AND LOBBYIST INTERESTS'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it might be better than no national health care, but it's NOT A PANACEA'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'how is it not a panacea'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I get that you have this idea of a perfect free market, which somehow allocates goods and services to where they are needed.  But nobody outside of an eco 101 classroom has ever, or will ever see such a market,.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'can you go into complete and utter bankruptcy because you have an illness?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want it treated, twyst'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'And he had a bodyguard squad of Virgin women! That is just badass. Considering the location and the culture he empowered WOMEN with the honor of protecting him. That is crazy to me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'll take your word for it, but I doubt it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can be allowed to descend into poverty due to illness'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'vakieh - you can take steps towards a free market in a number of industries, but you require a lot of govt intervention. Not quite what the common people understands as a free market though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'come spend some time in the States '
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that the best counterargument you have?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'just don't get cancer or get into a car accident or have a 'pre-existing condition''
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The change to free market needs to be the opposite of what TN seems to want.  THe gov. coming in and forcible anti-trust dismantling big corporations is the only way it all works out.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's where Obamacare is headed, you realise that the shortlist of insurers can exclude pre-existing conditions'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government DOESN'T DO THAT, Vakieh, THEY SHOULD, but they CREATE THE MONOPOLIES'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Here in Au, any pre-existing condition can only be excluded for 12 months.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'happened in the UK with our Water, and Electric, and with Government services, and is happening in the Health Care System'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So TN, you are in support of bigger government?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'In the USA, Obamacare will do the same thing for Healthcare industry'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, vakieh... I'm trying not to argue with someone who deliberately tries to draw people not involved in a debate in with insults and lies directed at them...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm a supporter of decentralised, smaller government'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Obamacare regardless of what people try to say is at its heart a _compromise_'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think it's a lost cause'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might be a compromise, but it's not a very good one'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'A government which dismantles corporations would need to be pretty damn big'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah you can have some of the pie or none of it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'while you can give a lot of benefit of the doubt to people, at some point their nature is clear...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and much like the NHS, my complaint against it is lack of transparency, people are being led to believe it is something that it isn't'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I dont want Obamacare I havent had insurance my whole life and I havent seen a doctor in 12 years...I feel kind of AIDSy though *cough*'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The US health care system is a sick throwback to Post-Great Depression skills shortages, and should never have made it to the state it is in now.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0251160/'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Watch that film, and rage.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with regard to healthcare, govt intervention need not be a large burden on the taxpayer. My country's model is heavy on intervention but light on cost'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'largely because it's partly self-funding'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Sonshi, the biggest cost to government health care is rural subsidy - your country doesn't have a rural, and is thus not really relevant.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you need to have the incentives in the right places, etc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there is that...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like the UK to investigate alternate models, but it's been built up to be a sacred animal, you can't even criticise the NHS without some left-wing nutjob having a crack at you'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but most developed countries are mostly urban, population wise...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Au is very central, but with something like 10% of the population rural, our gov has to spend 50% of its health care costs on rural subsidy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does urban/rural split have to do with healtcare provision?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hmm... that's certainly a big difference'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Doctors don't want to live in the country, and there is a SERIOUS economy of scale with central, urban medical centres.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Town of 10 people, middle of nowhere, still needs a doctor,'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but I do wonder about the figures comparing city to city'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you probably have a different idea of rural there than here'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't really have rural anymore'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too many people'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the problem with health care is the profit motivation'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and unreasonable life extentsion at the very end'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Don't we now? Pretty sure Au having 22 million where the US over the same land has what, 2-400 mil? we have rural pretty much down.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, and both the UK and USA systems are crippled with profit motivation'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a lot of people want that life extension though'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Tigernuts, profit motivation is the hallmark of the free market...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The US has the most expensive health care in the world, but it's only on like place 22 in quality iirc.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when public services are abused due to profit, it's the hallmark of capitalism'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'But mandating healthcare or heck even auto insurance on everyone is bullshit'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Seriously, people are dumb, and I really, REALLY want a team of scientists with a decent brain in each head to discover some awesome powerful weapon tech and take over the world.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Of course everyone should have health care available.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Why else would we have a society?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one way we keep the profit motive in check is with a strong govt health service. When private physicians know that a second opinion is just a $1 train ride away, they'll be careful not to promote uselessly expensive treament'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Rannr, you say society, the rich see 'means to herd the cattle''
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'we had it awesome in Wisconsin forever until they made it a law that you have to have Auto insurance. Good thing I don't have a lisence so any tickets I get just *poof* fuckin disappear. Fuck the system'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Everyone should have access to schools, health care and emergency services. Everything else can be done by commercial actors, but the government should provide the basic services.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'until you cause life and or property damage exceeding your means to pay.....'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not opposed to a govt health service paid for out of taxation, provided it's GOVT run, and is honest and transparent about what it does and does not do, provides those services in an equal and servicable manner, and doesn't then block the services it doesn't provide frmo being accessed independantly'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah Ranrr let them decide how much toilet paper we have too while were at it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's pretty much bang on how it works in Sweden, Tiger.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I would like to see what a Communist government could do without Capitalist interference.  Sure, every communist regime has failed HARD, but what might they accomplish without having to fend off the US with each step?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods, it's NOT how it works here in the UK, and it's not how it will work in the USA with Obamacare'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No, snooky, that's not part of the list.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Government should not care what we eat, drink, smoke or put in our asses.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'you said emergency services, I do not shit until it is an emergency'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our ruling party used to be a communist front!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively.
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I meant police, fire fighters and the like.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'You should do more than duck sonshi'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I think in Au we get the better compromise - gov pays for a LOT, but we get the nanny state also'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Though tbh, I really don't like tobacco.  Like...REALLY.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nanny state is getting a bit crazy these days'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't smoke, i heavily support people's right to smoke'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(as a for instance)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't support communism, i support the right of people to promote it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Mostly because the ones smoking now are the ones who are too friggin dumb to realise it kills you - so they are the obnoxious, antisocial ones.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I smoke and I hate it. It poison fuckin smoke and people should quit'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, the direction of travel in our society is the other way'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The other day I was at a bus shelter, in the rain.  Woman with a baby, me, and a man smoking.  Fucking arsehole, if his bus hadn't shown up when it did he would have been a wet arsehole too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'So making tobbacco illeagal might be okay as it is just straight up harmful. But we can't trust a goverment with any legislation like that its a slippery slope'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you ask him not to smoke aroudn the baby?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's why I actually would support making smoking illegal. Because smokers are assholes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not 100% true'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'non-smokers can be dicks about it as well'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Both the mother and myself asked him to stop.  2 seconds after I asked him, his bus came.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could make smoking illegal in public, enclosed spaces'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I don't give a toss if people smoke, but I don't want to smell it, and that kids lungs definitely didn't need it.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'TN, it si illegal'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You shouldn't need to ask.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'si = is'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what's your beef?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Big sign with the $5000 fine label there also'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if he was already breaking the law, why would you need to make a new law?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Ranrr, we allready gave you non smokers most of the resteraunt and the WHOLE FUCKING AIRPLANE! What more do you want?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Illegal to sell, he can't get them'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Denis Leary.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be a infringement on civil liberty, vakieh'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky is agreeing with that Ranrr person again...
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'And yet, I would be free from smokers.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like to make idiots illegal, and television illegal for the same reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh your reasoning for wanting laws passed is fucked up'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Civil liberty doesn't allow you to do what ever you want.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd like to make communism illegal'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'My (and the baby's) health?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'heh.  No, the government doesn't need to impose a ban on smoking.  We've seen how well that works with alcohol and pot.  But I'd agree smoking in restaurants or waiting areas is kinda being an ass and unfair to the health of others there'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're trying to cover up the inadequacies of the implementation of an existing law that should have protected you by trying to be an arsehole to everyone'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not justifiable'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I can't believe it but I'm agreeing with TN'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'It is justifiable to have little booths, like phone booths, where they can go, smoke, and leave.  The open space is not for smoke.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, i'm going to lunch, enjoy'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what if there is no one there'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I just think smoking should be illegal, since all smokers are assholes. Make them inject liquid tobacco into their veins instead.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'The US needs to promote Democracy like the USSR promoted Communism. We force Democracy like a big black hard dick. And they offered communism like a fresh virgin 18 year old pussy.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Indeed, smoking when we know what it does makes you an idiot by default.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You were both wrong. I mean are.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'same as drinking and eating too much'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but no one is perfect'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Vakieh you have never had a beer and a cigarette have you? '
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Both.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Beer because I am Aussie and it is the law, cigarettes because I was to drunk to know what I was doing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I agree with you by the way. But I just don't trust our Gov enough to handle substance legislation correctly'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '(you might read up and see I am calling myself an idiot - you would be correct)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'banning smoking is not the way to go about it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'limiting smoking and enforcing it (where it makes sense) is'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'they can ban it from ALL public places'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Don't ban smoking, ban its sale, and regulate where it is done the same as a heroin clinic.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I favour raising taxes on it to match its estimated social cost'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'No no no Vakieh just make it so it can only be done in private. Like your own home or a social members only club'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'We tried that in Sweden, Sonshi. Doesn't work, just creates a black market.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'legalise and regulate the sale of it all, set the taxation at a rate to cover the health cost. make it illegal to use in public and in the presence of minors'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'end of'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, my country's also stern enough to deal with smugglers harshly...'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Tobbaco is NOT going to disappear anytime soon'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or ever'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It will when the earth itself is swallowed up into a giant butthole'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yuna will love it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Snooky strikes a victory pose with his group! "Shouri no pouzu... kime!"
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts bows before Snooky.
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks for the debate, and thanks for not descending into shrieking'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Ya did good Tigernuts. Ya did good.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'This....... is....... classic.....'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ohhh, you have to watch this'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna needs to watch this'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tpAOwJvTOio'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Oooh what is -omg a link!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P36x8rTb3jI'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell me that isn't classic :-)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I am laughing so fuckin hard Tigernuts!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that could -be- Yna'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Yuna'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'What sucks though is Yuna and the others never concede defeat ever they just magically trail off and stop debating'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not going to get into that'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Even I will if I find myself wrong or mistaken. But people don't see that as manning up or being an adult over the internet'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I want a free phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'GIMEEE!!!!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I allready have one'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I deserve my phone on the account that I exist!!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I have seen Yuna admit he was wrong or misunderstood something before.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my main complain is his equation of opinion with fact and vice versa'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a flaw many of us share at times'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"I don't like the colour blue". Prove it!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wtfbbq?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Sodomy abortion bots'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'http://youtu.be/9Rw1ioJ99vk <-----------According to Chuck Norris & Wife it will be 1000 years of darkness if Obama gets a second term'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well if guess if he closes down any more coal plants, he might be right'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'ZING!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Yeah I can't wait for rolling blackouts across the country...at least I'll have a free phone tho'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama won't be able to delay energy independence by much more than 4 more years, surely'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'delay?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'a free phone with no charge :('
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'stopping drilling, pipelines, whatnot, supporting Solyndra instead :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'western governments are actively undoing energy independance. Obama isn't alone, the UK's energy sector is fucked and nobody seems to care'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all been directed into a stupid fight between pro-wind turbines and anti-wind turbine lobbies'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whereas in teh meantime, people like me are thinking "Doesn't anyone else see the problem that we're reliant on Russia for our gas and France for our electric?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Russian gas being linked to oil price is brilliant'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'at least if you are Gazprom'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'the Green energy movement is pretty much a sham too.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aye'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Tigernuts, you got a conspiracy theory for us today?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's agenda 21 at work. What sucks is all these trendy people eat it up and just cant see past lol we are savin trees'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trendy people have this habit of being a bit gullible'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why they get into fads and the 'latest thing since sliced bread''
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'a bit? more like most of them do not have the slightest fucking cue'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'clue'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they might be intelligent enough to do well in their field, but are often lacking in wisdom to see the bigger picture'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are different types of stupidity'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Hating on fracking is trendy right now'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know of people who can barely write, would struggle to do complex maths, but in terms of ideas, concepts, and just understanding -things- is sharper than pretty much everyone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Are these people called 'tards' ?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Because they sound pretty tarded.'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'He might be talking rainman or forest gump tarded Starling'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well not quite that polarised'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, ATF racially profiling hispanic gun owners'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UN mulls global taxes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think the UN ought to be disbanded'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't disagree'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'especially as impotent as it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not impotent'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'o.O'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't know how else to describe it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'toothless?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'ineffectual?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'yeah, I could accept toothless'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ain't toothless either, you're thinking about the UN security council which isn't the same thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I"m not sure ineffectual is condescending enough to describe it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Pentagon decalares Julian Assange an 'enemy of the state''
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's how you know he was bang to rights'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Juilan Assange deserves the nobel peace prize'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly deserves it more than scumbag obama does'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was a massive fucking joke, that was, giving obama a peace prize'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'i deserve it'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the nobel prize doesnt' mean much, but yeah, that was a joke'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'I saved africa from king kong'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'beautiful!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'i disagree'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'well, you are dead wrong this time'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'doubtful'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'doubt is for pussies!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'or ignorant assholes'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'yes but those are not pussies!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hwuaijijal: 'assholes rule'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'assholes rule, pussies drool!'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but don't dicks fuck assholes?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'ima stay away from drooling pussies'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'i dont need a disease'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'racis'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'racist'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'lolwut?'
T3/r7/2012-09-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'lolwut?'
T3/r7/2012-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gratz old bean'
T3/r7/2012-09-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'am I the old bean :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'Darth Vader vs Adolf Hitler who would win a rap battle'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Hitler never sounded like James Earl Jones...'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's hard for imaginary characters to rap. Try hitler vs jesus instead.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Although, thinking of it, that may not work either...'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'hitler is jesus getting revenge'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe so, after taking some lessons on genocide from his old man.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'nah he schooled his pops'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'Star Trek or Star Wars'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Star Warks.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Babylon 5'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Babylon 5.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: '... Ranrr: Are you me?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ranrr goes, "Heh."
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Multiplay, nuke now pls'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'i just think he in your hed'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'same time stamp even'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'Terminator or Materix how is the human race coming to an end'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'someone one too smart for their own good in a lab with good intentions'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'Legand of Zelda or Mario Brothers'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'mario'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'halo or gears of war'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'zelda needed to solve puzzles and use weapons and crap, mario jsut ate mushrooms and breathed fire'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'zelda and halo'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'and jumped over stuff :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'sonic or mario'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DarkenRahl: 'big explosinons or plot in a movie which is better'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'New theory: The main difference between how men and women think is that men care about the big things while women care about the small things. Like men care about what you say, women care about how you say it. Am I correct?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: '... are you implying how you say something is a "small thing" ...? wow.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not saying either of the two is not important.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Hell, it was just something I came up with while doing the dishes :D'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The current thinking is men are more attuned to the concrete, where women are more attuned to the abstract'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'yeah.... I wouldn't call how something is said small at all. I'd say its probably more improtant then the words'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: '(statistically speaking)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Daloran, if it makes you feel better, replace the words 'big' and 'small' with 'obvious' and 'subtle''
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'I still wouldn't even agree with that =p'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You don't agree that the actual words that come out of someone's mouth are more obvious than their tone, body language, context?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Not at all. In fact a majority of how we communicate is non verbal anyway'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'something like 80 or 85 % is nonverbal'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Women: Feelings, Men: Logic'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You might need to look up the meaning of the word subtle...it doesn't mean less'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Dragon RandAlthor: 'case in point you spouse says they are faithful while eye humping someone else'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: '"Sight makes up 83% of the impact on the brain of information from the senses during a visual presentation. Taste makes up 1%, Hearing makes up 11%, smell 3% and touch 2%."'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'I'm well away of what subtle means.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'well aware, rather.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Subtle means not on the surface.  The concrete words are on the surface, the 'rest' of the communication is the subtle part'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You could communicate at a point of 1% concrete 99% subtlety, it still wouldn't change the fact that body language, tone, context, etc are all subtle'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Actually Vakieh, if thats your definition of subtle, I'd suggest you look the word up for yourself... that's not what it means at all'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'From Mirriam-Webster: 1) a)delicate, elusive. b)difficult to understand or perceive - obscure.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Which does not mean "not on the surface"'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The particular effect of someone with a frown is more delicate and elusive than them saying the words 'I don't like you''
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'A frown is overt, though'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The next meaning, subtle having many: 2 : clever and/or indirect'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Vak.. again, that's not really true. You can say those words with a smile... with sarcasm.. jokingly.... and they all change the meaning rather significantly.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They change the meaning significantly, yes, but they remain subtleties'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Subtle would be someone frowning slightly, then quickly smiling to conceal their distaste'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'subtext isn't always subtle'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Check the first part of each of two words you just used, and wonder at their etymology...'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'subtleties are covert, not overt'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Something overt can be more subtle than another overt thing...subtle being relative'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'So yes, a frown is rather overt, but it remains more subtle than saying the feeling in words'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Hows this then Vak... I conceed that sometimes non verbal cues can be subtle. But the words can also be subtle. However they can also be very obvious, and very easy to grasp. I wouldn't say one is neccesarily more or less subtle. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '130 decibels isn't less subtle than 140'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'DosseT, yes it is'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Subtle is slight, fine, and delicate'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'By definition, it is, by a factor of 10'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Now, if you remove the 'r', I would agree'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I mean remove the less'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Do you still not get it Daloran? The words you say are concrete - they can be misunderstood, but they are out there.  The tone of voice you use, the context you speak in, the body language you use, are all subtleties by the simple fact they are not vocalised.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Vak.. you're sayign your tone of voice is not vocalized? =p'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'They can change the meaning of the words completely, but at the end of the day, the most overt part of the conversation is always the words.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'body language is overt on camera, as much as tone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Unless you are saying "I am talking in an angry voice", then no, they are not vocalised'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Men say: Honey, can you empty the trash. Women say: Honey, the trashcan is full. For me, as a man, the female version is more subtle, but they mean the same thing.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Ranrr.. They don't mean the same thing at all, unless you pair them with nonverbal cues and tone of voice.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I wouldn't know.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Nobody is saying body language, tone etc can't have a profound effect on the meaning intended to be conveyed by words.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Without the tone, the words are meaningless, Vak'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'What is this form of communication we are having, then?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'subtle means hard to perceive, derived from subtilis (fine, thin, slender, delicate) per wikipedia, for what it's worth'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'you're confounding subtlety with subtext'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'tone of voice and body language are immediately perceived, yet convey a subtext beneath spoken words'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Subtext is by its very nature less overt than ordinary text'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Again.... I don't really agree with that =p'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You don't have to agree for it to be correct'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'subtext is just unspoken, the "giveaway"'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'if someone says they're having a great time, and their arms are crossed and are looking at their watch, you figure they aren't'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'And you assume you're correct.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Yes DosseT.  The overt words' meaning are changed by the subtleties of their tone and body language.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I wouldn't consider the body language to be subtle'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Not subtle by a 1 or 0 approach, no.  But subtlER than the words.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Another example of my original point: To seduce a man, just e.g. throw him on the bed and get naked. To seduce a women, the small things do the trick, like giving her attention instead of your male friends, or whispering sweet things in her ear, or just doing the dishes without her having to tell you. Those things wouldn't really work on a man.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Come on, tell me I'm wrong, or are y'all virgins? :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'problem with the missus?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Not really, just bored.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'I'd say women follow their feelings more, and use subterfuge'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Men are rational, and use logic'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Problem is that men can see how women think, but women don't care how men do'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'since thinking is affected by hormones, I can't see how either can understand the other's thinking...'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Testosterone lends itself to visual/spatial ability and the reasoning to learn how women operate'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Women are too busy feeling, there's no self-reflection, much less room for external analysis'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If you want to try something fun, try telling a female friend how men's brains work. E.g. tell her that any man that speaks to you for no apparent reason wants to have sex with you. Why else would he talk to you? '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'oh, the male friends thing'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'yea, surprise girls'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Also, perhaps, tell her that men always want to sleep with their female friends. Or maybe not.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Yea always'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Guys wouldn't waste their time/effort to be orbiters if they weren't interested'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'You might not.. but thats not really true, DosseT'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'alledly, 90% of black people in the USA are born out of wedlock'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'I dream of a world where 100% of everybody is born out of wedlock'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt that'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Why would you doubt that?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but then you have the obamaphone lady, https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tpAOwJvTOio'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'You may have made assumptions which are not correct about my statement, however it is true'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and i thought nuts trolling tech was bad'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that means you're not a fan of marriage or not a fan of children'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'The former'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, your choice'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'More specifically, religion, but w/e :-P'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russian scientist to broadcast Monsanto rat study live on the Internet'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '80% of women will go to 20% of men though'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'President Obama's Partnership for Sustainable Communities are implementing micro-apartments and planning 1-child family enforcement'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'is that Monsanto rat study, pro or against Monsanto, or neutral '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'GMOs make you sterile'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some GMOs'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Bill Gates funded Monsanto GMOs make you sterile'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Part of their depopulation plan'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'that may be good if those below genius level are more likely to be sterile'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it's genius's that continue to eat it'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'They're buying out the food sources, Xyliz'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'and seeds'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'So the only thing left to eat is GMO food'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xyliz: 'lots of sex and no children'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'campaign then out'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: '...for one generation'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir buries his face in his hand and sighs, shaking his head.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like the law in CA to label GMO in food will be passed'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how do you think Obama's government will try and screw that one up?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Relabeling'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'just like high-fructose corn syrup has hosts of other names'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bill_Gates_Monsanto_eugenics.html'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Don't quite understand how people have such a short memory. Bill Gates isn't a particualrly nice person'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody had any doubt about that up until a few years ago, now they have amnesia'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'Buy out all food and replace with GMO = depopulation; provide GMO food to starving nations = depopulation while appearing the good guy'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) DosseT: 'People can't see the forest for the trees is why'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'food prices set to rocket this fall'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tymas: 'Movie of all time: Coach Carter!'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vakieh: 'Best movie? Equilibrium'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Agreed, at least in the "1984" genre.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Abunai: 'attack of the 50 foot woman'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'BTW, Equilibrium was loosely based on the 1930s novel "Kallocain", by Karin Boye from Sweden'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vote obama! get a free phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01n1r2t/The_Revolution_Will_Be_Televised_Episode_6/'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(american viewers may need some proxy jiggery pokery to view that)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or anyone else outside the UK'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2 weeks a mort'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mis'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The shopping lists for democrat members, for any political capital Obama might make in the election:'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'He's got to continue to concentrate on jobs, Rep. Bill Pascrell said last week as the House was leaving town for a long, pre-election recess. I'm hoping he'll do immigration reform, said Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas). We should get back to an energy policy  one that acknowledges that climate change is real, said Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.). The critical issues will be revenue generation  and  a concerted push on immigration reform, said Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.). I think he'd want his administration to start on healthcare, said Rep. Mike Honda (D-Calif.).'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e policy and idea-less set of inane political drivel '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, gold at $1773, music to my ears'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paul ryan talking on foreign policy makes me want to hurl'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does it require justification? thought it pretty obvious'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I have never heard him talk.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a few linked up at drudgereport.com'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I also think we should credit him with having a budget proposal that is less pathetic than Boehner, Pelosi etc :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think we should credit him without be a cock-sucking, boot licking shit eater of the worst sort'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/259355-ryan-obama-running-on-division-distraction-on-distortion'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'then again reducing the budget deficit by 2-5% doesn't quite solve the problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think you can reduce the deficit by a few %'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think you have to reduce it immediately to 0 in one big shock, or ..... do something different with it'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'doing the right thing is very much the worst choice, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cuts don't work'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't see Obama running on anything better than distraction and distortion though'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's using his best asset as his voting tactic'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his skin colour'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I might conceivably have voted for Obama in 2008, since he seemed less bad than McCain'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having seen what the UK Labour party did to us in the 1970s, and in 1995-2010, I would never have made that mistake'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'no, Obama's best asset is not being batshit crazy'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'although now that Obama has had four years to prove that he doesn't have any solutions, there really doesn't seem much sense in reelecting him'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll get a free phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I already have a phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some people have many'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'obama has great solutions... for the guys he's working for'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also there is no such thing as a free phone (or was that lunch)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at Santher.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'definitely free phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'no solutions? interesting, tell me more about how no federal directive or newly signed law has done anything in 4 years'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no such thing as a free phone.  You got one free from the government because they raised taxes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government made those taxes, you didn't make th em'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm not quite sure who Obama is really working for, seems like it might be weird Chicago stuff and unions more than Wall Street'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'my face keeps landing in my palm for some reason'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) StinkPit: 'guess i should turn off debate'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's CIA.  They're busy nation-building, but they blew their travel budget on the War on Terror.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'obama has fleeced american tax payers for trillions...'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's hassling you, StinkPit?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'of course he can give out free phones'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Black Obama voter: Romney will raise taxes on people with no money'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'lol'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'The main problems facing Obama in early 2009 were 1. Financial (ongoing crisis and also government budget deficits), 2. Environmental degradation, 3. Demographic changes.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'facing Obama, or facing America?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the two aren't the same'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs in response to Tigernuts's question.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well.... how can i put this - Obama hasn't got the best interests of America in mind'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so therefore, his problems don't always match the country's problems'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'nods he's bankrupting america faster than bush was'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '4. Incompetence in believing partisan cooperation was possible with Republicans'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Looking at the finance part, the financial crisis was a result of allowing excessive leverage, having largely unregulated derivatives, persistent interest manipulation and failed policies by the fed, and inevitably humans doing what would give them the highest quarterly bonus.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: '5. Failure to "seize the day" while holding an effective voting majority in both houses'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'much in the same way as the lib/con government in the UK elected in 2010 has been "How can we look like we're doing something to save the country when all we're really doing is holding the reigns and hoping other European countries go down the tube before we do"'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama' time in office has been characterised by: "How badly can I fuck up the fabric of this country in 4 years?"'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama could have proposed changes that would have greatly reduced the first two of those causes, and also the problem of excessively mixing primitive and derivative securities.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zela: 'Barack Obama was (is) a toady to the Republicans'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that's fair'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's a toady to the people that now 'own' the republican brand'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'He might not have been able to pass the legislation, but he didn't even try. Instead we got 2k pages of mostly worthless "financial reform" which didn't change any of those points.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'obama works for both parties'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I know that Bill Clinton has some confusing math based on "studies", but I can give it to you straight Mr. Clinton: $16tril. - $10tril is $6tril. Gas is $4 a gallon and unemployment abor 8%.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'republicans these days are a long way away from republican'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nw'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'www.shadowstats.com'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'statistics without government massage'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I just get the feeling that after 4 more years of Obama we'll be saying things like Austerity here. No one can bail the US out though. No Germany coming to our aid.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'real terms unemployment is somewhere in the range 8-25%'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Germany won't be coming to anyones aid'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Technically, the amount of money Germany paid to bail Greece out was something like 10,000 times the amount they owed for reparations from WWI.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'So I think we can finally put that one to rest.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a dollar is worth roughly half of what it was 30 years ago'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'bailouts seem like a tax grab to me... does anyone actually believe the banks were ever in any real trouble?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not, it was a huge wealth transfer from US to the banking elite'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Obama could have proposed a health care/pension/insurance reform that would solve the big problems in health care (lack of coverage and silly insurance system, excessively high cost relative to gdp, a moderately insane tort system). Obama could have worked out a new, properly funded pension system (with the inevitable cuts). Obama chose to do neither. Instead we got 2k pages of legislation which primarily hurt small businessowners and benefit large insurance companies, and Obama's administration has given waivers to any number of huge corporations.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Agreed, deficit spending is always a bad idea. Only makes sense in a true emergency. Keynes never intended for deficit spending to get out of control like this, or to even be long term.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'keynes didn't count on the level of globalism we have now, either'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That legislation might not have passed either, but on both counts, Obama failed by not even trying.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'True, which is really my problem with Ron Paul. He never accounts for globalism in anything he says / thinks of.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(well he does, foreign policy :-) )'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean, sure, let the Middle East just blow itself up Mr. Paul and gas will be $18 a gallon and we'll go into a huge depression.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, you shouldn't be concerned, because US, like UK is a net importer'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'There's no such thing as a global economy to him, he's living in the 1960s.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing RP would have done would be worse than the situation as is where big global companies literally asset-strip entire countries'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take Apple and Google f/example'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Which countries are they asset stripping?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, they asset strip 3rd world countries quite literally, but they "use" western countries to make huge amounts of money while paying ZERO or close to zero tax'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'as for (2) and (3) I haven't seen any noticeable policy proposals there either'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Which countries?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which countries for what?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So, you can disagree with me, of course, but when Obama doesn't even propose solutions to the major problems, I'm going to assume that this is because he doesn't have solutions, doesn't understand the issues, or, well, his personal incentives lead to less saintly actions.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'apparently it's illegal to collect rainwater in america now'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'What country did Apple or Google, that is 3rd world strip?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'I think it is a mistake to disregard the political climate'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'They knew they could never get any of the stuff you want through'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Apple and Google were examples of global corps that don't pay tax in the countries they make all their money off of'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada peers intently at Quadrapus.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'which sucks'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not necessarily 3rd world asset-strippers'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I actually don't think he knows how to solve them at all Tinada. I mean, look at all the flak Obama gets for meeting Kanye west and a pirate in the oval office.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I dont think he wants that flak.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So because you can't get your laws passed, you never propose the actions which would solve things and never communicate those ideas to people?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I think he just doesnt know what to do.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'That doesn't seem very plausible to me.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'third world strippers are dark skinned women with prominent ribs'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'They communicate... you don't read the newspaper? :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Not if you are really trying to help the country, at any rate.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Even the liberal papers were blasting him for not doing enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I mean, yes. they do, but what is he going to say, "yes I'll attack iran with you now mr. netanyahu" America doesn't want any more wars, period. esp. in the middle east.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'http://www.naturalnews.com/029286_rainwater_collection_water.html'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Actually companies want to stay profitable long term, so generally speaking when they realize that their supply chain is jeopardized by their actions of unrevocable stripping of assets, they change course. Its happened many times in American history.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was the guy in Oregon, Santher, I think it's a local interpretation of a state law'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'it's more than just oregan :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'The first example I can think of is the rail companies in the 1860s after they realized what they were doing to forest lands and farm lands.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though the general pattern over the last 8 years has definitely been authoritarian central collectivists'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't wait to see states starting to use nullification and see then what he does'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Without any Government intervention, they started changing course.. of course the Government stepped in and started to regulate anywyas.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's when you'll start seeing these 1.2bn rounds of ammo he's bought for the DHS'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Yeah, its a bit frightening. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Now I don't see Romney proposing that kind of solution either, and those issues don't exactly seem to be at the foreground of the political debates (apart from the budget deficit, and assorted "solutions" which are obviously not going to resolve the problems)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe that's the only logical scenario: He'll push the states too far, they'll start nullifying his dictats, he'll try and send in the troops, civil war ensues'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the only thing that makes any sense, is why he's been trying to push gun bans'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'Yeah I agree Tinada'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Quadrapus: 'They both suck'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'victimising army vets'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Still, I mean a goal should be energy independence for America. That would really be a huge win for everyone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly at Quadrapus.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pulling every stunt possible to get gun owners into the law system so they're on file'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'Still, Romney's plan is 57 pages long.. he needs to articulate why they will actually work.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Remember November: 'I know a few undecideds that are still waiting to hear that.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'No! We want to sell you expensive oil, no energy independence for yooo'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you want energy independance? probably best stop closing down all your power stations, then'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I don't think Romney has been closing down anything'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama has'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fortunately'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'There is that. Energy independence would have to include coal. From an environmental (and economic) point of view, it's a bit on the silly side to close down US coal plants and sell the coal to China.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you don't fancy Romney's plans to turn much of the middle east into a glass parking lot, then you can always vote for Obama and get a free phone'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'considering that modern US coal plants have approximately zero emissions (apart from the inevitable co2), they should be included.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I really doubt even half of them are considered modern, though.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I still don't think it's realistic with energy independence in 8 years, like Romney suggests, 16 could probably be done'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm orf, but look on the bright side, here in the Uk we're just as screwed, except we don't have any land to grow food on, and none of us are armed. Happy days'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'then modernize the remaining ones, last time I checked, Chinese plants don't quite meet new US emission standards :)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Santher: 'just make some fusion or fission reactors, quite easy :P'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada comforts Tigernuts.
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also you have the largest financial sector of any major economy (relative to gdp)'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the army can be deployed on the streets without constitutional objection'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'joy, so it's our fault, too'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Resurrect Churchill.  He created two shortages of stuff during WW2 in a country basically surrounded by those things.  Organizational genius, he was.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, it's illegal for the US army to operate within US borders.  It's why the National Guard was created.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'that sounds... very wrong'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Hmmm?  That doesn't seem like an unreasonable restriction at all, presuming it doesn't apply when you're being invaded.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Of course, I'd rather not have a standing army at all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'martial law is different.  The military gets to run hogwild here if someone overran us.  They might win the war, but it will irreparably shred the American Psyche if the initial horror of the invasion didn't.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'is anyone reading this?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'yoyoyo'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'So, what other ideas do you have?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'hmm?'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'honestly, i forget where i was going. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'the mud seems to be well run'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'It is,'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'and i'm pretty sure my points would've applied to a larger or more poorly managed community. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I think it makes a stronger community when people can handle people being rude.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'Obviously there have to be limits at some point.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i can see that, though i find myself inclined to disagree. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'but i'm not sure why, yet. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'haven't thought about it enoug. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i think its something about what i want a mud to be. a place where i can go to escape the real world - which would include rude people. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'let me reiterate i have no idea if you are/were/will be rude. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'I think that's an unrealistic expectation to have in almost any community'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'perhaps. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'it's not unrealistic as long as your community is small enough'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'One of the best things about this mud is that you have a lot of ways in which you can create and tailor your community, via ftalk and your choice of clan, assuming you want to join a clan at all.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lokathor: 'so, just turn on Quiet mode and you'll be fine'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Halicka: 'i was about to make that point, starling. though i don't know the details. '
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Starling: 'read help friend, help <clan name>, also help ignore for dealing with people you don't like.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'reading the clan board will give you an idea of how much rudeness (or lack thereof) to expect on an average day.'
T3/r7/2012-09-30.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth.