T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in documentation issued by the IRS, they assume that the cheapest family plan for Obamacare will be $20,000 per year' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Ouch thats a lot' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there you go, buy $20k a year insurance or be fined (woops, sorry, 'taxed') $2400' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'some guns you dont even need to pull the slide back' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is criticism of delinquent islamic regimes tolerated, but criticism of delinquent jewish regimes anti-semetic and punishable by law?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Wheres the punishable by law part kick in?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's illegal in many countries' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certainly frowned upon everywhere else' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Ah, not the most informed of other countries laws' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I would say because people decided to make Islam the boogie man' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty undeniable that the jewish state behaved terribly right from it's inception, yet they wave the holocaust around as a shield against criticism and as justification' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'any reason we're referring to it as the Jewish state and not Israel?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people have a habit of thinking you're targetting the people of Israel specifically if you say "Israel"' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's why i've taken to using the phrase "US government machine" to refer to "America" or "the military industrial complex" to refer to the UN/NATO' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I think it could be argued you're targetting an entire religion vs the country' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the jewish state is targeting an entire religion?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how many other jewish states are there?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Referring to it for its religion versus the countries name thats all' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, difficult to tease it apart from their religion since the state was founded on that basis' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'That is true, but at the same time from its inception, many countries have bleated about its destruction. Coming from that standpoint, I wouldn't be pulling punches with my neighbors as Israel either' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't, despite international law that's apparently so important' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all knew, though, that international law only applied to 'bad guys'' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'International law are for small countries without a big military.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's like national law not applying to government or the elite' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Pointing out the truth.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'll get you arrested' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'definitely don't point out the truth on Facebook, you'll get swat-teamed' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'International law can be ignored by a country if it has a big military, no one is going to do anything about it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'little point having it then' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unenforcable laws are worthless' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Funny you should mention swat teams. Had a neighbor get no knocked warranted by swat... they were after the duplex behind them' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did he sue?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its very hard to sue the police' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it ain't' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'nope city did pay for the door and such' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'winning is hard' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people -need- to sue in cases like that' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'to illustrate how hard it is to sue, look at the guy who got no knocked in the middle of the night' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'shot one of the police officers because he thought it was a home invasion' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not sure if he got life, or the needle' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not an issue with sueing, that's an issue with a fucked up justice system' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'wasn't that a few years ago? I want to refresh on that one' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'putting the cart before the horse' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah it was a couple years back' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where was that, alabama?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'new york, new jersey..something like that' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'figures' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'police state' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'very worst he should have got manslaughter' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I wouldn't feel bad for him if he was a dealer, but they also wanted his neighbor' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'he should have got off scott free, they didn't announce themselves as police' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see, that's a miscarriage of justice, it happens a lot' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's exactly -why- people should sue' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'everyone thinks how easy it is to sue but think about it its hard to find a good lawyer' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government has to be reigned in and made accountable for their mistakes' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'case in point dude who shot a cop on a no knock. A good lawyer I can't imagine that would've happened with getting the needle' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'reigned in? prosecutors are untouchable' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'you could say that about everyone' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Thats why we have people like you Tiger, go dispose of these wretched currs' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thankyou, krache' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'I dont agree with a lot of what you say but when I do it counts' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the smallest thing that people can do is publicise it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'motivates public opinion' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I'll say this, it just motivated me to move back into a better area. =p' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'everyone should be made accountable, not just government ' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know now why i hate cities :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they want to start dealing with the budget, why not deal with the gigantic police state? DHS, TSA - move the CIA into Military Intelligence and abolish' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'last president that tried dumping the CIA was assassinated' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well this isn't dumping it, it's scaling back a bit and putting into the correct jurisdiction - foreign intelligence should be under the military' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'if we ignore the whole CIA and using drones, why else would they be best served under military?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can fart around with tax rates and little departments all you like, but it's only when you start dealing with the big ticket items you'll make savings' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oversight, aldeas' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who does the CIA report to?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'both military and cia have oversight... for the most part' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who does the CIA report to?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I can't remember name of the committee but its senior congressional memmbers in house' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hmm, "at best"' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'putting it under the army gives it army oversight, then congress oversight, and finally executive branch oversight' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about the only way you're going to reign in their excesses' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Ok it's committees of intelligence give or take in both congress and senate' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think you'll probably find that's a rubber stamp committee' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'The CIA of today is no where near as bad as it was back in the day' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't control or steer the CIA' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they merely have the ability to query them' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'As usual congress controls the purse strings' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes and no' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happens when they try to control the purse strings?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'What's that?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get a huge backlash, such as what happened with congress threatening to control the purse strings over the debt ceiling' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get liberals pissing their pants, basically, a huge demonisation project and then they back down and nothing happens' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when's the last time a budget was passed? what's the pentagon budget like?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'at some point all the issues you have is with the people running the system' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'but at same time you want even more oversight by the same people essentially or part of the same system' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but the issue is that people get sucked in by the spin and media hyperbole' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'not that much you can do about that one now. You don't get "neutral" reporting if you don't go looking for it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'party politics destroys democracies, is the bottom line' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what you can do about it other than making failure to have accounts and budgets signed off an instant impeachment' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I remember when Google News first came out I was stunned at the different spins on the same event' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe a mass sackable offence - no budget? president is fired' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'But it's the congress who passes the budget' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they PASS it, they don't PREPARE it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a budget has not been PREPARED and sent to congres since 2009' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK parliament doesn't have this problem, it's a set in stone thing' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'It's a good thing my country can just print more money =p' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Really though, everyone grandstands on the budget, and waits for their little piece of the pie to bring back home to the constituents' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe so, but lack of transparancy and honesty lies at the bottom of all of the trust issues that governance has' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'creates a credibility problem' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK can arbitrarily borrow as much as they like, it's....... not a panacea' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'it doesn't help the kind of person thats drawn to the power of legislature' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is why governments should kept on a short leash and have limited and strictly prescribed powers' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, must be' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '1 reason why magazine size in guns does not matter... its possible to fire 6 shot revolver reload and fire another 6 in under 3 seconds' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'l' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was never an issue with magazines, the whole magazine size argument was bollocks to get the gun confiscation going' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In Germany, new anti-beastiality laws were recently instated that make it illegal to have sex with animals. A bunch of zoophiles took to the streets to demonstrate in Berlin today. At least one of them brought his long-term sexual partner of seven years, a dog called Cissy.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those Germans' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For some strange reason, every single demonstrator was male. How shoacking.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I have to know just how many were a bunch?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The article doesn't say how many. Or it may do. I haven't read it all yet. They claim they're in mutually beneficial relationships, though!' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'each to their own' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Well I guess if you break it down to a sugar daddy relationship, said animal gives it up and he/she gets room and board' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: '=mutually beneficial' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, they are taking it to the courts. http://www.thelocal.de/society/20130201-47711.html#.UQxH0b9EG85' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '"Banning it means that millions of people in Germany are criminalized,"' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And there you have it. Millions of German have sex with animals.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it that was the usa and the democrats would be behind it, tigernuts would be going apeshit right now' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where do you draw the line? there are plenty of women that look like dogs' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I feel pretty non bigoted in anyway saying the species line' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure what to think about it, tbh' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I know what you mean fast forward forty years, grand children are like wow gramps you didn't believe in cross species marriage?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm erring on the side of "what business is it of the german government"?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I do prefer less laws when possible, especially considering wouldn't that be along grounds of animal cruelty' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the government is protecting animals from sexual molestation' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'largely hypocritical given intensive farming' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and meat-eating diet' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the government is also protecting the reputation of the country from smears and sullies by depraved sexperverts' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Germany? I wouldn't bother' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'too late' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody is going to have sullied their reputation worse than Hitler' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that big butch lesbian Merkel' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Nazis were assisted to take over the country by homosexual brown shirts -- so the government prefers to reduce sexperversion and thus prevent another Nazi takeover' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hard to see how this furthers their aims to take over Europe' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other than victimising the Hungarians' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, was that a slur against Hungarians' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm 2 slurs in credit tonight' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so USDA is putting a bunch of regulations in to dictate what schoolkids can and cannot eat. It should be worth noting that they won't be allowed to drink regular soda because the sugar might make them fat... but they'll be allowed diet soda whose aspartame might poison them' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do they not have water in the US?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fruit juice? milk?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'difficult to buy fruit juice in the UK because of bloody aspartame' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why can't they just use sugar ffs' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gotta keep feeding the cancer industry.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd do more for the health for the kids of the Uk by making the little fuckers walk or bike to school instead of mummy clogging up the roads with their shit 4x4's' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cancer rates have been going down in the past few years, but that is probably because less artificial things are being consumed, like hfcs.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some cancers' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some cancers are up' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'brain cancer is up, probably because of cell phones.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'leukemia?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seem to recall that being up' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hfcs is not artificial' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Yes it is' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'fructose is natural' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You think if you squeeze corn hard enough, corn syrup will come out of it ?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it takes refining.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if fructose is "artificial" then so is table sugar' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if fructose is "artificial" then so is table salt' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You can chew on sugar cane and get sugar out of it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sugar is easy to refine, corn syrup is not.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps in a 1000 years, the human body will recognize corn syrup for a sugar and create a response for it in the brain that tells you when to stop eating it.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'chew on sugar cane ? - not likely -- so little sugar from that method' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'your false-label arguments are faulty, since most all modern convenience foods are "artificial"' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they are artificial' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'go chew on an apple.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'is ethanol artificial by your standards?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i avoid intoxicating beverages' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Fair enough, but you still can make a judgement knowing how its made' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'there is synthetic alcohol used in industry. it's artificial and you shouldn't drink it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'so yes, there is such thing as "artificial" ethanol' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Well I was going for a real simple example. Something easily made' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it is quite easily made' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'I agree, but once you start about making it ethanol, I'm out my water and can't give an informed argument' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'erm making it artificial' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's very simple. all you need is ethene, water and acidic catalyst' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"synthahol" is a fictional alcohol from StarTrek -- some trekies are not fully "cogis mentis"' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Why would you though?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'because you might want to use huge amounts of it in different industries' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'so is the ethanol artificial you say where aritifical ingredients added to it?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'C2H5OH is the same no matter how manufactured -- the impurities may be different though' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'Ack Chemistry I haven't been in a class in MANY moons' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'just trying to make an example how sugar and hfcs aren't the same thing' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aldeas: 'oh yea that was the original point :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Dagnir, your faulty comparison fails, since hfcs is food grade' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'aspartame encourages the growth of bad bacteria and candida fungus -- the toxins from which may cause health problems and even a reduction of mental ability' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that is the reason tha aspartame seems to pass laboratory tests -- the testers are not using diseased rats and diseased humans' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but when a human with gastrointestinal difficulties imbibes aspartame drinks, more gas, more candida, more smell' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'beans and rice....yum.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'more sugar is likely to do the same - the sick loser loses' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'beans do not seem to cause gas these days -- perhaps they were genetically modified to not produce gas ?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Bill Gates has spent over $11 billion trying to eradicate polio, and he expects to spend another $6 billion through his foundation to get rid of it once and for all.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Bill Gates next going to spend billions to eradicate smallpox' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'polio' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'polio was supposed to be eradicated last century' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'smallpox is already gone from the public.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'except in labs where they weaponised the smallpox' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'China perhaps ?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alabama is the most conservative state in the union.....and one of the poorest.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the union, for the 2nd year in a row.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas isnt even in the top10 of most conservative states.....' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did they try to ban large sodas?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas rarely bans anything' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I was referring to Massachusetts.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'China is going to flatten 700 mountains to build a new mega city.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Nah, it is NY that bans things like soda.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'banning sodas with Coca Cola around is like banning guns with the NRA around.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Coca Cola's position is that if people want to get type II diabetes or any other health problem from sugar, that's their business.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the fact that sugar is addictive shouldn't mean it should be treated like a drug :>' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the "soda ban' was so that restaurant owners may charge more for the soda drinks' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cocacola makes more money from other drinks then it does from soda now.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'except overseas.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as far as I am concerned, they should ban sodas period :) Water works for me.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if Coca Cola were banned, they would loose more than just money. The name "Coca Cola" would be dirt.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'lose*' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'soda sales have been dropping in the US for over a decade since the introduction of energy drinks, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but since Coca Cola is a major campaign contributor (to the republicans) there is little chance of that happening :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Coca-cola is nutritious to the cerebral ' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'energy drinks should be banned. People have died already.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'they should ban cars too - they kill far more people every day than energy drinks' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'people should try plain water, they will be surprised how much the boy enjoys it :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Anaristos is trolling' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'body*' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'prescription drugs should be banned. Did you know that some drugs actually list death as a side effect?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a lot of drugs list death as a side effect :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, should ban video games also, because a couple of kids have had heart attacks from not eating, drinking or sleeping for days' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hail! Ceasar: 'That's not a "side" effect.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'any drug that taxes the liver is bound to kill some people.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and ban facebook' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'then that's even worse, Ceasar, because they're actually printing on the label "Side effects include: stuff, stuff, death, more stuff"' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'a less draconian approach might be to have a tax on sugars instead of subsidies' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ban internet games - gamers are not getting enough physical actibity' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sugar? What sugar? food companies do not add sugar....they add hfcs :p' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ban TV - TV watchers are not getting enough physical activity' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'taxing fruit and vegetables (corn in particular, since it's analogous to food-grade petroleum in the economy) is a very bad way to go.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'HFCS is mostly sugar..' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'ban pancakes as pancakes use hfcs' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, and making it more expensive essentially means you make almost ALL of our food more expensive.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cane sugar is expensive in the US, because the govt makes it so.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'cane sugar may be converted into moonshine' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If 1 pound of sugar increases health care costs by 1 usd (random numbers, obviously too low..), then why does it not make sense to put a 1 usd tax on it?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'beet sugar, and hfcs cannot compete with cane sugar unless the feds put price controls on cane sugar.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hail! Ceasar: 'which is why some people didn't want public health care.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the tax on sugar is an indirect tax on moonshine' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'also, if sugar becomes sufficiently expensive, it will vanish from most foods, which is no particular disaster, we can live perfectly well without it' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hail! Ceasar: 'step 1: remove sugar subsidies.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there are no subsidies on sugar, they are already inflated in the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'scale. Within a week we could easily fix our immigration problem by just rounding up anyone with insufficient or improper proof of identity and simply shooting them in the head, but then where would you bury all the bodies?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in Sweden.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Canada might object to that. The US don't want to hurt their feelings :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if sugar disappears, the poisonous artificial sweeteners get their heyday until perhaps cancer deaths skyrocket (and then maybe an oops sorry from the sugar banners (preferably as they are lynched))' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'You notice that states along the Canadian border make no reference to all the illegal aliens drifting south from Canada (white illegals are OK) :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Flach: 'Nobody cares because Canada is just the 51st state' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'white illegals come pre-educated' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's not entirely true anymore, given that 6 horny jihadist flyboys couldn't keep it in their pants.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or maybe people will be able to kick their sugar addictions, and maybe nutritionist types will start doing proper science, so people can return to use fat for extra taste instead of sugars..' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, which means that they will take desirable jobs away. While the illegals moving north only take jobs that the uppity US population won't take.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hmm freedom fries' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hmm, butter-flavored popcorn' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yep, lots of "fat" in fries and popcorn and other unhealthy fattyfoods' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just put olestra into all fatty foods.....' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what poison is olestra' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Fat doesn't make you fat, but sadly that doesn't prevent heavily processed vegetable oils etc. from killing you.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'fake fat, was a huge promotion in the 80s.....it causes anal leakage.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is Rizgoth recommending anal leakage' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it was added to all kinds of things, but especially to Pringles chips' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so does anal sex :>' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'until the anal leakage started, and it was pulled from the stores overnight.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'olestra doesn't cause leakage. It turns the faucet wide open.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's basically diarrhea medicine' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1 serving of olestra was like eating a box of exlax.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they pulled anal sex from the shelves?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so Risgoth is recommending nasty anal diarrhea ' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'only for you, yes.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'diarrhea can only be anal, if the emission if from other orifices, it has a different name :> ' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'vomit if through the mouth, rhinorrhea if through the nose (interesting trivia: almost everyone suffers from rhinorrhea when they eat).' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'dripping buggers into their soup?' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'rhinorrhea = runny nose/post-nasal drip (snot dripping into the back of your throat).' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'thanks, Hanslanda :)' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Temperatures are so high that Australias Bureau of Meteorology has added new colors to its weather forecasting chart to represent the record-breaking heat.' T3/r7/2013-02-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'This global cooling is murder :)' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Only 1% of the fresh water on Earth is available for use by humans.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should build solar and wind powered desalination plants to produce more fresh water from salt water.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'depends on what you mean by available...' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and gold!' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Sierra Club used to be a pretty good nature group before lilly livered left wing liberal whackos took over.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'back in 1919, the Sierra Club paid for the adding of steel cables on the Half Dome in Yosemite National Park so that climbers would be safer, now they want them removed to prevent more people from climbing up and enjoying the view.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We need to build at least 20 new 2500 megawatt nuclear power plants in the US in the next 40 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'or..use coal' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Most of the nuclear power plants that exist today are at least 30 years old, and will need to be overhauled, or replaced in the next 20 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'some are even 40 or more years old.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I dont think people who breathe air in the US will enjoy replacing 20% of the US power supply with more coal power plants.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I thought new coal plants were very close to clean' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure in the scifi world.....coal power plants are cleaner than the previous generations of coal power plants, but they are still 2x dirtier than natgas.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We do have a lot of natgas now though, so perhaps we can build 50 new natgas power plants, but they would still produce co2, unlike nuclear power plants.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That many new natgas plants would require increasing the capacity of the natgas pipelines.' T3/r7/2013-02-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'islamic whackos burning libraries in Mali.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK takes next step along to making the supply of raw milk illegal' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so mother will have to boil their breasts before feeding their babies?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Don't be silly, mothers milk is dangerous. All that fat, do you want babies to have heart attacks?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mothers cannot give their kids breast milk unless they do it out in the open in public' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst snickers softly. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'provided they're also a lesbian' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '[Results] do suggest the possibility of a much larger impact of solar variations on the stratosphere than previously thought, and some studies have suggested that this may lead to significant regional impacts on climate, reads a draft copy of a major, upcoming report from the U.N.s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e what all the actual scientist had been saying all along' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scientists*' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Doesn't invalidate anything about global warming, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's invalid is the politicisation of unfirm science being used to harvest power and money' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'has always been my biggest bugbear about it' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's your opinion.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether it's right or wrong to do that is opinion, that it is used at all is fact' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I just don't agree that the science is unfirm. I agree that political methods will not be able to solve the problem. I disagree that carbon taxes are a bad idea.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it's unfirm, it's climatology' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That is, your amateur opinion. My amateur opinion is that the science seems to underestimate the problem, if anything.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: ''science' has overestimated the problem by a factor of 4 so far' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Pulling numbers out of a hat does not validate your statements.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor does telling lies' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's another way to put what I said.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then we must both refrain from quoting numbers or telling lies' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to solve long term co2 emissions, you need less people' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That is one way to solve a lot of problems, agreed.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'So far, the climate models don't seem to give very accurate predictions, and a significant portion of climatology is statistics. This indicates either that climatology as such is not a mature science, or that the field of study is too complex for predictions and models to be noticeably more reliable than random walk simulations.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Or more plants. We should plant plants in the sky to suck up all the CO2' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'emission increase = population * emission/hd - emission absorption' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing is being done on population or emission absorption' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Tax kids!' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shoot kids' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'more co2 -> more plant growth' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at all the desert you could convert back to use' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'shooting kids = more corpses = more methane in the air' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mince kinds up and feed to sheeple' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'No better way to cure hunger than by killing half of the hungry people and feeding them to the other half.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The asteroid 2012 DA14 will fly by Earth on Feb. 15 and zip within 17,200 miles (27, 680 kilometers) of the planet. Most satellites in earth orbit are at 22,000 miles or so.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Only the geostationary ones. Other satellites are closer :P' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dont be so exact, you are ruining it for the tin foil hat crowd.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'although I don't know many non-geostationary ones are actually in the sky...' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Also, there's supposed to be one that might come dangerously close in like the year 6300 or something' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I hope by the year 6300 we'll finally have a worthy space program' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Mankind will be extinct by 6300' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, at least styx will be.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Amen' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Or at least a way to armageddon that mother, and blow it to bits' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I'm sure we'll have undergone some horrible disasters between then and now, but I'm not sure about extinct' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I mean, there are species of fish that have survived some pretty cataclysmic events' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the Cylons will come back and finish the job.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Huh, NASA defines any asteroid over 6.2 miles (10 km) across as "extinction class" i.e. powerful enough to destroy life on earth if it collides with it.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'that seems awfully small' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the avg price of gasoline is currently at $3.43 per gallon in the US. Up 4 cents overnight.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't need to be huge to wipe out life' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, 6.2 miles is pretty freaking big.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'couple hundred meters would wipe out a city the size of new york' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That rock would be the size of mount everest.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that football field sized rock on feb15 would destroy Seattle or Vancouver.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That 330 foot rock that did the air burst over Russia in 1908 would have caused major destruction if it had been over a big city.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '2 east coast refineries are going offline soon to perform routine maintenance.....about 400,000 barrels of oil not being refined into gasoline.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Total U.S. gasoline supplies fell by 1 million barrels last week, gasoline demand increased by 70,000 barrels a day to the highest level since the end of December.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'So that's about...half a cup a person in the US, assuming none of it gets exported.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: '400,000 barrels, that is' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'per day.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'How long can "routine maintenance" take?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas currently has 26 oil refineries, and Lousiana has 18.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a week or less.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Florence high school student suspended over having a picture of a gun as a desktop background picture on their laptop' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still the hysteria continues' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Deadliest sniper in US military history killed by veteran wacked out of prescription anti-depressants' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I can't even understand that one, it's like the girl suspended for a water pistol - clearly a plastic, transparent water pistol' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/2013/02/03/news/web_photos/03N_GUN_IPAD--525x1000.jpg' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'much of the crazy stuff like that, Taokan, are just the administrators faced with a situation not exactly or clearly covered by the policy so they are just erring on the side of caution.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's hysteria, hans' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I can see a heightened state of security - my kids school keeps the front door locked and you can't get in until they buzz you through, and there's a camera right there so they can see if you're wearing a ski mask or holding an AK47 or something ridiculously overt. But the crackdown on anything remotely gun related is ridiculous' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, it's CYA. If they don't do anything, someone demands to know why and then they probably lose their jobs.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could have removed the bubble guns and explained the new rules' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my favourite: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCIjreDCQAArdyO.jpg' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'hahaha true that' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'see, I can't hate on Obama for the economy and such - he's done the best he can to comprimise between a bunch of obligations and "no-more-taxes" republicans. But, his administration's been terrible for liberty.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'unchecked drone strikes, sign off on NDAA that allows killing Americans without trial, no shutdown of gitmo, giving HSBC a wristslap for laundering money for drug cartels' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I still believe he was a better choice than Romney, but... just terrible' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Romney would've been better. We definitely need someone the media doesn't jack off to when they watch video of him.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tigernuts, you used bad english: "whacked out on" or "whacked out by" is okay colloquial English, "wacked out of" is bad (or clumsy) English indicating a lack of something, as in "deprived of" -- you seem "whacked out of" proper english today' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not interested' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'THATs where I knew the name Chris Kyle from' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was the one who demaed Jesse Ventura in a book he wronte' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so not sure whether the veteran was on too many anti-depressants or allegedly not enough' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was about to be involved in legal proceedings' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have you anything to bring up, zade?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'typo errors may be caused by shivering from the cold -- cold winter, eh' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in a recent poll, 70% of americans aged 17024 agree that americans should be allowed to own asasult weapons' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"demaed" (defamed), "wronte" (wrote), "17024" (17-24)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the purpose of your input on this channel is not for grammar and spelling correction' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'although 17 to 24 years of age seems an unusually poll window' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the poll over all was 44-51 in favour of ownership' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well short of the 66% mark needed to change the ammendment to allow a legal ban' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you don't use proper spelling while using proper grammar, your postings are then somewhat incoherent and or ambiguous' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only grammar and spelling nazi's have any trouble with it' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not a typo if you understood the meaning.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not sure whether "demaed" meant "defamed" -- and that wasted a few minutes looking for alternatives' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could just ask' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and yet ultimately you understood. Ergo, not a typo.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'nope, the information posted by Tigernuts can't be reused citing Tigernuts as a secondary source, since Tigernuts posted gibberish - is as though Tigernuts never posted anything there (other than gibberish, since the auto-correction is inconclusive)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you done?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I'm pretty sure if someone told you they heard on the news that a space cock was on a headon collision with Earth your first thought wouldn't be disbelief. It'd be that the stupid fuck needed to get his ears checked.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well zade's one of these people who wants to use any pointless technicality to get out of having to express a view or argue a point' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'small typo errors where the autocorrection is 99% to 100% accurate do convey meaning, but when the autocorrection is around 50% certainty, then meaning is not conveyed accurately' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't worry about it' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in "Humpty Dumpty" style, i used to seemingly misspell words, but they were "new words" -- although autocorrecting by others provided a meaning that near to the intended meaning of the "new word" -- even so there was a definite slightly different nuance to the new spelling' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in "Humpty Dumpty" style, i used to seemingly misspell words, but they were "new words" -- although autocorrecting by others provided a meaning that was near to the intended meaning of the "new word" -- even so there was a definite slightly different nuance to the new spelling' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst boggles at the concept. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some philosophical concepts require a new vocabularly' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're probably explaining those concepts poorly' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm sure zade is obama's fault somehow' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'debate can't give specific examples, because then you may be able to trace who i am irl' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would we care?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Zade is too old to be Obama's fault. Most likely would be contributed to Carter's presidency, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Carter gets a bad rep' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sine leaving politics he's actually found some morality' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since*' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't he also currently the older living ex-president, and longest-retired living president?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'leaving politics doesn't make you a good president if you were formerly a bad one.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'maybe. Can't remember if Old Man Death stabbed Ford in the heart with his sickle or not.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's an ex-pres' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'died 7 years ago' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well just over 6, really' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'would be a moot point if Kennedy didn't headbutt a .45, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'kennedy would probably be toast' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he'd be 96 now' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Technically 95, but yeah.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Presidents seem to have a fairly long life span, though. Reagan and Ford both lived to 93. And HW and Carter are both 88 at the moment.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damnit, that means we'll be lumbered with Clinton forever' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Its too bad Clinton is the best president we have had over the last 30 years....' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts chuckles at Krache's joke. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the competition isn't exactly strong' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Exactly lol' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'What I found out today: presidents up until Clinton received a lifetime of secret service protection' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"good that Clinton is the best President of the USA in over the last 30 years" -- in that there was at least one good president of the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Though we had a surplus in the budget, the house bubble wasn't exactly the best thing to happen -.-' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'housing***' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republican crooks are to blame for corrupting the initiative of the Democrats' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Clinton had the luxury of a mild economic and world environment' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Democrats gave us the income tax. They asked a banker how they could bilk money from the public without telling them about it.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same reason Tony Blair was inflicted on the Uk for so long' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps Clinton didn't deliberately antagonise the terrorists as the Republicans did' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the US as a whole didn't really care about terrorism at that point. The big focus was street gangs.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Codebuster shows his approval by clapping his hands together. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'under Clinton, the supergangs played their hands and revealed the US government was woefully underprepared to deal with them.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'supergangs?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'gangs didn't exactly run rampant during the Clinton years' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they were pretty powerful since prohibition' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'weren't the LA riots in Clinton's era?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's hard to blame Clinton for the LA riots' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wasn't' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'let me guess - it was obama's fault? :D' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst snickers with Seltsimees Dagnir about their shared secret. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'correct?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can blame him for repealing glass-stegall and fucking up the mortgage market that led directly to the property crash of 2008' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'still a tough sell but okay' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not tough at all!' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was the fault of black people who still believed in the Malcom X style of civil disobedience.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'easy to be sanctimonius when you don't get your ass beat by the police on the reg Hans' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i saw quite a lot heartwarming coverage of the LA riots, old black people roaming the streets crying and shouting at the youngsters, armed gangs of shop owners defending their property' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and giving them even more reason to beat on you will somehow improve the situation?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is easy to get your ass handed to you by the police when you act beligerant to them all the time.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the time it is the police that instigate that, not people Riz' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'whatever.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst rapidly nods twice at Tigernuts, in complete agreement. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's how they're taught these days' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah just ignore it, you probably would have called Rodney King a liar if it wasn't for videotape' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'probably why filming the police is illegal in half the union' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the root of the problem is that police are no longer keepers of the peace, they're fine collectors and enforcers of the elite's words' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'G.Bush sr administration was responsible for establishing USA bases on Arab soil during the Iraq-Kuwait conflict and then keeping the bases there (on Arabian Holy Soil, annoying the Islamic militants -- so when G.Bush jr tsole the election, 9-11 was payback for what G.Bush sr did' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Yes, we try to hire as many police as we can to be slavedrivers to our minority workers, since the police are so well trained in how to be racist.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the Democrats won the year 2000 term, perhaps 9-11 never happened' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes i doubt that police are trained at all' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bullshit' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'very unlikely, since they were using 1994 as a dry run.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the only reason 1994 failed was because they didn't use enough explosives' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'osama was planning on revenge ever since we abandoned him in Afghanistan after the soviets were kicked out.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it wasn't because US security was that good.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats' why they made sure with thermite in 01' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so GW.Bush and the Republicans cheating to win the year 1999 November election indirectly caused the attack on the WTC on 2001-Sep-11' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, '01 was already fully-committed at that point.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '1994 was two years after G.Bush sr was ousted -- so the attack of 1994 was yet an attempt at payback for what G.Bush sr did (leaving American miltary troops on Arabian Holy soil)i' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'look' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'mis' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, good. By that logic, we can blame 9-11 square on Clinton. Less time elapsed.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'note that the islamic militants then waited until GW.Bush was elected to retry payback for leaving American military forces on Arabian Holy soil' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'is this some tongue in cheek thing Zade? we already know you are an Islamophobe' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts chuckles at Twyst's joke. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if I had my way, we would send about 50,000 texas wild boars to the holy land to live....so tired of islamic whackos blaming the west for crap when the same islamic countries INVITED the west to help them with saddam.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when younger, i used to argue both sides of a debate -- i am Canadian and balanced (unlike lopsided USamericans)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so you agree with Fox, huh?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i seek the truth, (not to win an irrelevant debate (for illusory ego gratification)) ' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so you don't agree with Fox, but you agree with the X-Files?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Faux news is usually too bad to be a credible side' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it really is pretty simple 9-11 was blowback' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers intently at Twyst. T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in part' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'to be more specific, when younger, i used to argue both *credible* sides of a decent debate (and that does not mean arguing for the disreputable side)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'still doesn't change the fact it was in the works during the 90s, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably planned for a long time' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yeah, since G.Bush sr ' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but so was Operation Iraqi Liberation, just need a context' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '9/11 was a bad idea on their part, because they really woke up the sleeping bear......before 9/11 they could have kept on hitting embassies and other small targets for decades, but after NYC, everything changed for alqaeda....' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Now they can barely do a car bomb let alone hit an embassy.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're saving up' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and have also changed tactics' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can now take over entire countries' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'X-Files went sci-fi near the end and then hard-to-believe' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no they aren't, they are being slowly destroyed, most of their leaders are dead, sub leaders are at gitmo, and the intelligence network of the west is on to the others.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the next big thing for Al Qaeda will be housecleaning, when they realize that all the child entities they're spawning are getting in the way.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '9-11 caused the USA to cripple the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'most of the US no longer cares about 9-11, it's treated as just another thing to drink a beer and have a BBQ for.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's kinda funny, since they still bitch about all the stuff 9-11 lead to.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but it opened the way to extra legal rendition, indefinite detention, warrantless wiretaps' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'roll out of the police state, for instance' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the list goes on' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Twyst person again... T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nope, just brought it out into the open. We've been doing all those things on the down-low since at least Carter if not all the way back to Vietnam/the Kennedy assassination.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you realize those aren't good things' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'just like every other country that signed the Geneva Accord, we secretly and regularly broke the rules when it suited us.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we just couldn't tell anyone, is all.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and continue to do so' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the fallout damage done by 9-11 to the USa (mostly by the USa) is enormous - crippling debt, crippling deficits, greedy Republicans, greedy TeaPartyers, loss of civil rights, Presidents and (republican VP) violating the USa-Constitution and the Geneva convention' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'very much so. The people don't care what we do, so long as they feel safe.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well they ain't going to feel safe soon' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'replicated food sounds almost good....resequenced protein.....increasing or adding protein to foods that normally do not have much, or any.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they feel safe now, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'from the perpective of the islamic militants, 9-11 was a rip-roaring success (from the fallout damage to the USa)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'agree, they achieved all of their aims' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and died in the process.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the ones that volunteered, yes' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'alqaeda doesnt even exist much anymore.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there those 70 virgins' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(unless they are the same 70 virgins for all of them)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or perhaps the ones who die, are the virgins.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '9-11 was a hail mary for them, the level of success it achieved was nowhere near the expected outcome. If the Super Bowl was on the same level as a World War, the terrorists basically won a close game with a buzzer-beating 115-yard pass.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(look but do not touch, 70 virgins)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and they end up being buttfucked for the rest of eternity.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'seems like a pyrrhic victory' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you two are likely wrong -- Nostradamus predicts otherwise' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'those idiots in NYC took forever to start rebuilding the buildings.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they couldn't build them straight away, they had to make sure they properly disposed of any evidence of explosives' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it doesnt take 10 years get rid of explosives.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's pretty expensive to rebuild those buildings' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it takes that long of a beurocracy to deal with it and all the asbestos' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'otherwise it would take 10,000 years to clean up the nuclear bombs and missiles in Russia.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there was a "Countdown to the Apocalypse" episode featuring the prophecies of the Hopi indians in Arizona -- by comparison, Nostradamus seems benign ' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'many of the prophecies of the Hopi indians already happened' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Anyone want to buy a farm near the beautiful forests of Chernobyl ?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Nostradamus didn't predict the end of THE world, he predicted the end of his world.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Hopi indians are predicting the end of the whole world (except for maybe a few humans)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there any of them still hopping around ?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they are Hoping for the better outcome' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they are Hoping and dancing around, doing their amerindian dances' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the same Hopi documentary estimated that if both India and Pakistan where to launch and explode 50 nuclear missiles at each other, that may be enough to end the current comfort of current civilisation from the nuclear winter likely to result' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'each' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do pakistan and india even have 50 dirty nukes each?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least 100 each, each at least the size of hiroshima (according to the Hopi documentary attempting to conjecture a possible how of the Hopi prophecies)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, let's hope they get it on' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rest of the world 'd be somewhat screwed by the lowered temperatures if they did ' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Rev Jesse Jackson, does appear to be the left-wing nut equivalent of Sarah Palin' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you know he's gonna find that racist, right?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can fuck off and die, he's a hateful example of all that is wrong with black people' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he and Sharpton learned from the best, MLKJr.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's similar to the way jews scream foul anyone criticises Israel, yet hides behind the holocaust as justification for mistreating arabs' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's racist pornography for a political agenda and i'm absolutely sick of it' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so in that Connecticut shooting an assault rifle was not used' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not a rifle, no. It was still an assault weapon as put forth by the Obama administration.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'was all pistols' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, were 4 glocks used' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so what are they calling assault weapons' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'has any one ever heard of the battle of athens' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just about anything, elchana including knives' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a sour looking expression is an assault weapon under obama's rules' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'anything with more than 10 rounds of ammo in a single clip. This includes most handguns, fyi.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any rifle with a pistol grip' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or "looks military"' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'a Remington 700 would look military then' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'since the m40 is based of off the rem 700 action' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some photographs of guns are military weapons' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is/isn't included isn't so relevent, it's not being passed, what is more important is what the weapons ban was a step towards, what the motivation was, and what will be done in it's name' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'is that a fact or just you opinon' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which bit?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'that its not being passed ... has it been halted' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that bit is opinion' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'based on then needing 60 votes. There are 55 democrats of which 5 have said they won't vote for it, 45 republicans of which only 1 is planning to support it' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, no, it's not in the bag, and they could be playing possom, but it doesn't look likely' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i keep finding conflicting reopts of what was used' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have a browning break apart .22 caliber rifle that allows you to put 18 shells inside it, and it has no clip.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's 8 shells too many.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'my dad bought it for me in 1981.....went wabbit hunting.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'their point is that if you have to use more than 10 bullets to take something down then you are assaulting instead of merely shooting. By their definition, a Daisy bb gun is an assault weapon.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any executive orders issued that contravene existing federal law or the constitution can be struck down in court, so you don't have to worry too much about that' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you will see is "strong-arm" tactics by the ATF' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ooh, I love my bb guns....they hold over 100 bb's' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the school system (already seen that)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'competitive shooting of pistols uses more than 10 rounds' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the police' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I guess paintball guns will be banned also, perhaps we should shoot some politicians cars with paintball guns.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'fact of the matter is a clip chan be changed in 1 second' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can reload revolvers in 1 second too' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nuts, atf was castrated a long time ago. it doesn't really do anything' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it controls gun shops' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it therefore controls the trade of guns' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it doesn't, actually' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it does enough. They give away guns to criminals.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has the power to revoke gun licenses, raid premises, confiscate stock' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea atf does not even fund giving people back thier right to bear arms' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'seriously, look into it. atf doesn't do fuck all any more' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has the power to do all of these things and does' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'nope' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that is where he will use his executive power' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ATF is a department that can, under certain conditions, also have armed agents' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'battle of athens where citizens took up arms against the local government in aug 1-2 1946 ' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'surprised the Greeks didn't do it again this last couple of years, but i guess they're defanged' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'this was in the us' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in tennesee' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh, i forgot Americans can't come up with original names' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, same principle, it might happen again if things get real bad' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a lot will depend on the economy' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'unless the terrorists are highly successul on the US homeland again, it's not going to get that bad unless the attack is seen as so powerful or hard to handle that it's just a matter of time before we get devastated too.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does external terrorists have to do with national economy?' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the vast majority of your home grown terrorist is actually the Feds playing dress-up and steering sub-100IQ drug addled folks into doing stuff' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'spreads fear, makes people do really stupid things like hide all their money under mattresses.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'it's for a good cause' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think -anyone- outside of the upper eschelons of government, and maybe some fiercely rabit neocons and ultraliberals are actualyl worried about terrorism' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'in that case I call policy failure' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'people are supposed to be afraid' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you don't want a bunch of stupid people scared that badly.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and the fact that they aren't is why they're getting desperate and you have Obama using a school shooting to push the disarmament campaign, and Jesse Jackson trying to make out that anyone who owns a gun is a terrorist, and wh y you have the military being prepped to consider their own vets and patriots as 'terrorists'' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'btw the people in battle of athens used dynamite to breach the door of the jail in order to get the ballot boxes the corrupt govt confiscated' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll only brainwash liberals in city areas' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'as long as people don't think too much, it's probably better for me as dictator if they are a bit scared' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Filtered water, tapioca and/or arrowroot flour, non-GMO expeller pressed canola oil and/or non-GMO expeller pressed safflower oil, coconut oil, pea protein, salt, inactive yeast, vegan natural flavors, vegetable glycerin, xanthan gum, citric acid, annatto, titanium dioxide (naturally occurring mineral)' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, Google is financing a new 161 megawatt wind farm in west Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, they probably shouldnt be building 400 foot tall wind turbines near homes.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeCpLcjxOq4' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Kentucky gets 92% of its power from coal.' T3/r7/2013-02-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos . o O ( so does Newcastle :> ) T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so apparently Beyonce was to blame for power outtages at the superbowl, couldn't just be their electrics are shit' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'better explanation - http://i.imgur.com/iWgbbI4.png' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=llLVMUlDpaE' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one of the last interviews murdered SEAL Chris Kyle gave before his death' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Virginia have bill going through their state senate that will put a 2 year moratorium on the deployment of DRONES' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, Biden praises French Military's Incredible Competence and Capability' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Pakistan tourist board planning a theme part in Bin Laden town' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/why-is-government-stockpiling-guns-ammo/' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Leon Panetta should be jailed' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'before or after Dimon, Blankfein etc?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'before' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Ted Nugent for president!"' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are 10x more cattle at Amarillo Texas then there are people.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Rofl, State department to sue Standard & Poors over ratings downgrade' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck with that' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'lmao' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Argentina orders a freeze on supermarket prices. Hard to see how they can enforce that' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Is State going to say (a) it's obvious that more downgrades are needed or (b) if we get in trouble, we'll print $$, so we should automagically have aaaaaa?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'with guns!' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'america is screwed if china starts backing there currency with gold like they have been planning on doing' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nobody cares what the S&P rating is.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then why the lawsuit, riz?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'to make it seem like they care.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in another year, the interest rate on US debt is going to be negative.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bond rate going to be lower than inflation?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'already is.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, only because they're cooking the inflation figures downwards to make it look like it isn't' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US treasury sets the interest rate on the debt, not some private quasi bullshit company.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'china? Back their currency with gold? What alternate universe is this, and what have you been drinking?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think china have been buying resources just to make sure they have control of as much of it as possible' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There isnt enough gold in the solar system to back any large economy.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, by nature a fixed quantity can't back a growing economy, after all.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's ok, US and UK are not growing' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'problem solved! crisis over!' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US is growing just fine.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not if the cut everything now brigade has their way...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, it stopped for a breather last quarter' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's inflation-backed growth will continue next quarter' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'real growth is by nature adjusted for inflation' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which inflation though, that's the question' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just wait and see what happens when the US isnt sending $500 billion a year to opec nations for oil.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'national, not your own personal inflation rate.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which national?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our government uses at least 2 different rates, and they're measured differently to the rates it used in the 1990s, which are different those used in the 1970s and 1980s' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so how can you possibly have a cogent historical trend when the measurements are based off different incomparable things?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'of course you have to do some chaining, we don't use horse and buggies any more...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anything under 1% could be construed as no growth, really' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's well within the margins of error of inflation' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so back in the real world what will happen this year? Food prices, electric, and fuel will go up' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wages will stagnate' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's significantly less than 1% per year, unless you mean per decade...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'error' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the two measures the government use are nearly 1% apart as is' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'mit's billion price index tracks the official rate pretty well here...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Food and energy went up by more than 10% here last year, it's expected to rise by at least as much again this year' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'average wage increase was 1%' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, if you measure the economy in terms of horses and buggies, you will find a huge discrepancy in the inflation rate.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'muni bonds here in Texas are paying quite good returns.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing is paying good returns here' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the bonds are fed tax free.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gbp is down to $1.50/gbp' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the uk is doing the old cut everything austerity thing.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was $2 when i last visited' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's doing the horseshit salami slicing bollocks instead of revisiting government roles' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'obviously you aren't going to get good returns when you're cutting govt fast.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'except they seem to forget, if cut to much, you reduce your chances of ever getting out of the recession within 20 years.....just ask Japan...they lost a decade or two.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're barely cutting government at all' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, if you cut in a recession, you're only going to make your debt problem worse as a percentage of gdp...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'none of the parties here have a plan' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'need to cut spending during the good times, to reduce debt a little bit until the next recession.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but having debt is a good thing when it comes to govts.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's because they don't want to admit that borrowing more is the answer, when they've staked their reputations on the opposite.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you have money in this country, best thing you can do is leave with it' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, spend in recession, cut in bubbles. Standard prescription...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they like to do the opposite here' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, california does that also.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'during the tech boom they expanded govt spending way beyond what should have happened.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto here' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tony blair and his misguided beliefs of his own godliness' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, what do you expect, when everytime someone mentions increasing spending in a recession, he gets called names... commie/liberal/globalist...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sound familiar?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'odd indeed!' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like you have a selective memory' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'actually, if you look at the 90s, govt spending in the US did go down as a proportion of the economy in the later part.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but it went back up in the 00s...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'This new revolution in shale oil and gas began in Texas, because we didnt stop investing in oil and gas research and development, and didnt stop companies from spending money in Texas, like a lot of other states have been doing.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's because Texas isn't full of dumbarses' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'back home they're putting solar panels on govt housing in trial runs...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nothing wrong with solar, but should be investing in CSP, not solar panels.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'CSP will make solar panels economical eventually.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'once people thought that it would be impossible for us to ever have water-independence... then we built desalination plants... it could be the same for energy one day...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, the thing is, a lot of our city is built up... you can put solar on the roof easily.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Australia could have been the CSP capital of the world, but they decided to cut the budget of the largest CSP plant and abandon it.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'panels, I mean' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'building an actual plant won't be economical for us' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should invest in exterminating people here' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can exterminate your people and live in your agrarian fantasy... we'll be an advanced nation in your place...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Australia has tons of open land that could be used to produce solar power via CSP, they could probably power all of the continent and export power to nearby countries.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'failing that, buy a shit ton of boats and send them all to France' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and one day you'll be overrun by an industrial nation looking for an easy, weak agrarian target with plenty of land...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we never had, and will never have lots of agrarian land' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is now less than 1/5 of an acre for every person in the country' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Nevada has a CSP plant, producing about 50 MW of power, it was a test of technology, and soon they will be building a 500 MW plant....the power is expected to retail at about 8 cents a KwH' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it really doesn't matter... if someone can walk in and take what you have without resistance... oh well.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why we should be armed' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's the lesson we learnt from the brits, ironically.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'send a gunboat!' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can have as many guns as you want, but the army of a more advanced, more industrialised nation will swat your men aside like flies' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, business and technology is the way to go.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i'm glad you're advocating imperialism, Sonshi, I was worried you were developing morals' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you can live the nice agrarian dream as a country for a while, but it'll last as long as the next war.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's called pragmaticism' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a difference between being an overcrowded cesspit and having adequate people for the landmass to live comfortably and in a style to which they have historically been accustomed' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'countries that can't defend themselves at all don't last too long.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the UK is far from overcrowded, you guys have small villages all over the damn place.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have nukes, i don't think we feel threatened' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's overcrowded' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Tokyo is a damn good city, and probably has more people than the UK does. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do we look Japanese?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you built 50 story public housing units all over the place, you'd have plenty of space...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, like NYC' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you built 50 storey public housing, you'd end up with 50 storey public housing that would be no-go areas that nobody wants to live in' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Then you are doing something wrong.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '... dammit, I used US spelling for storey.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'story' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd need to understand the country before you can answer that' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'stories' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'tokyo got ruined by the nuke-izards, opium, and some god-awfully horrible epidemic of something that rearranged everyone's faces.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi looks around and whistles innocently. T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I will take the penthouse suite on the top level of one of those 50 story buildings please.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our public flats are pretty nice, actually, compared to units in other cities. And they're well sought after' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you don't make enough money for that, Riz.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have some high-rise apartments in the nearby city by the riverfront, they're insanely expensive' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how do you know how much money I make? :)' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and they're shit because they're in a city' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'educated guess. You tell us about all the neat things you're buying, after all.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, if you build 30 of those 50 story residential buildings.....The price will go down.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't, they don't have the space' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and you can always build them nice and big' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they probably wouldn't be allowed to build 1' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's plenty of space in the UK.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'neat things to me, are probably quite different than the neat things you would buy :)' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might just about get away with building one in the city of london, anywhere else it would fail planning regs' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if they're not letting you build on the land, what makes you think that they wouldn't just decrease the land available by half if you halved the population, anyway?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they probably would' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'then the problem is not the size of your population.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's in their interests to keep property prices high and people dependant' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, any nation that wants to do it can, you just have to want it enough.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't vote for them' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'like China building a brand new city to revitalize a bad part of the country.....a city for 12 million people.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'except us, because we truly are hitting our limits on land. And even so, we have decent 5 room flats...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Have you thought about making new land ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ask the Japanese...they are pretty good at it.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if only our neighbour would let us buy a chunk of adjacent land from them...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i would ask the dutch' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we're also almost out of sea to reclaim.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fly a plane into an american skyscraper, then the americans will make some room for you for free' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our neighbours are complaining that the reclamation is starting to affect their side' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'down and up are the only directions left, at this rate...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'build underwater like the arabs' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you could fill in some more with those mountains the Chinese overlords are planning to pulverize.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, the dutch reclaimed land is under the ocean level......it will be underwater in time.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the japanese built a new airport on new land they leveled some mountains to build.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we're nearly out of sea we can reclaim... so no underwater either...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how can you run out of sea?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it gets deeper, nuts' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so delve deeper :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our island is surrounded by international trade routes and sea territory belonging to other people' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they filled up the continental shelf area.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'time to conquer your neighbours' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Singapore must be on the ledge of the continental shelf, a sort of tectonic equivalent to the savvy investor.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas could be 2x its current size if we filled up the gulf of mexico continental shelf land that is underwater.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we can't expand to the ocean without crossing international trade routes or foreign territory... sigh' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but that would destroy the gulf of mexico seafood industry.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we're not near the edge of the continental shelf, just others in the way, that's all...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dig a hole, when you get deep enough you can just tunnel horizontally like the oil people do.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'digging down is an option' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, dig down, instead of up' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you'd think they could spare/sell us 0.1% of their (sea) territory or something!' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, down and up, that's what we're planning on now' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or do what the Swiss did....hollow out the mountains.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't they make an entire hotel out of snow and ice there?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if an alien race with no concept of nationalism were to observe us, they'd be wondering why this crazy bunch of people appear to be crowding themselves within this imaginary line when there's so much land nearby...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we don't have mountains either. heh' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'too small for mountains, in fact. We have a few hills though.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think the hills are lower than some of our buildings though...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'buy dirt from the chinese and show us how to make mountains out of molehills.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we already buy dirt and sand...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'looking at the Singapore map on google.com.....you guys have shitloads of potential land for development.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'at some point one of our neighbours banned sand exports to us. Just to piss us off, probably.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, if we tear up our catchment area...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'over time we'd replace it with desalination, I suppose' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can still build around those water catchment areas.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'funnel the rainwater into the collection areas.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put the rainwater collection underground' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'filtering runoff from the streets probably isn't much cheaper than desalination...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Singapore kinda reminds me of NYC.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like my idea of hell' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'busy, fizzy, and rude?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but eventually we'd have to fill in the reservoirs and turn to desalination/reuse entirely, if we keep bringing in more immigrants, I suppose...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hot, sweaty, packed to the rafters with people, and what's more, they're foreign' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the north eastern island is almost empty.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I think we're probably more stone-faced too' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it isn't' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's a military base' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Singapore is best served with being spoinged into a tree' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Your military base is hidden in the trees ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cause the island looks almost deserted.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in fact, a lot of the blank spots you see that aren't catchment areas are... well... *cough*' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'shangri-ooh-la-la?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, you can't have jungle training without a jungle.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what's the excuse for America conducting significant urban training in their own cities with their own police right now?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'terrorism' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'there's usually a bunch of people crawling through some godforsaken patch of that island, cursing their life.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they planning to blow themselves up?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, you do what the US does.....rent a jungle island from another country and practice.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, urban training in one city is useful for urban warfare in other cities' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's also training runs for the zombie apocalypse, and some major natural disasters are geologically imminent.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is that Obama's idea of a hissy fit when he can't get gun controls through? blow a bunch of his own cities to declare martial law?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gotta be cheaper than wasting a whole island on a military base that takes up less than 3% of the island.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you don't expect iran to lend them teheran for their training' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they wouldn't have the support of the Iranian police if they were there' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'oh, we have training facilities in other places too...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but you really don't want your army stuck halfway around the world if something happened.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, Gitmo for example....back when cuba was our friend we paid rent to cuba for that military base.....when cuba went rogue i thing we just decided to own the base and make it US land.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but you still keep enough troops on home ground for defence...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a country that closes down all its training bases at home probably won't last too long in a sudden invasion...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Who is going to invade singapore ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the aussies ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our two very friendly and relatively huge muslim neighbours who at various times threatened to crush us utterly.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You need a great wall of Singapore. :)' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'our fleet is our southern wall!' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'looking at Malaysia....seems like most of the country is empty.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah. But no chance of them selling even a tiny bit to us...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'too bad we were forced to sell christmas island to the aussies...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kinda interesting that pretty much all muslim countries are poor.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if we had christmas island, there's plenty of sea around to move into...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well... the nearest one to us isn't THAT poor' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'although I guess one could argue that their muslim majority is relatively slight, and the malays aren't anything like the middle east types...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they build pretty naff cars' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'At least you guys are one of the four asian tigers....must be doing something right.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we started off with export-oriented growth rather than import-substitution, which was a major factor in our initial growth' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'countries that tried the second mostly stagnated' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'also, rooting out corruption, getting rid of organised crime, mass education, public housing, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, singapores GDP is almost 3x higher than malaysia's per capita.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you need the people to be properly housed, educated, etc. for an economy to fire on all cylinders...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, closer to 4x higher than malaysia' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'should be around 3-4 times...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, our fortunes diverged sharply after they kicked us out of the federation' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this conversation brought to you by the Singapore Tourist Board' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, can I meet the king ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it's the Singapore *Tourism* Board' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they even made up a legend for the tourists.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'something about a merlion.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'built a statue too' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a merlin? as in the wizard ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a bit like the Americans building a monument in Washington DC to Bill Clinton's wang' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a mer-lion' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the washington monument.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the one' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lion body, fish tail, or something' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stupid tourists will buy anything' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Do you guys still whip people in a central square ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'most are American tourists' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'it worked very well back when we had this developing backwater vibe...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We love to buy stuff in foreign countries, even if it was actually made in China.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I don't think we ever did that since the brits left...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'whipping is a very private affair in our culture, unlike the brits.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no more caning? I would go to singapore just to see one happen to a drug dealer, or whatever.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi runs away in utter terror! T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'you probably could witness one, if you pose as a local journalist...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but a drug dealer wouldn't get caned anyway' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'no point caning someone you're going to hang' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so singapore is lion city, but no lions were ever there.....perhaps the founders saw a tiger with a lot of neck hair perhaps ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'who knows...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the brits were the ones who actually founded the city though. But I suppose they named it whatever the locals told them was a suitable name...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the brits didnt think to take a bigger chunk of the island ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so you have a Lion City...do you also have a Raccoon City?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they eventually controlled malaysia too' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but when malaysia kicked us out, that was all they kicked us out with' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'is Singapore going to be the origin of the zombie apocalypse?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, singaporeans tend to look like zombies after work...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth. T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'heh, and you think we're the bad guys?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, unemployment is low and the hours long...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, guess singapore will just need to build taller buildings.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah...' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.sott.net/article/257753-In-Amerika-law-no-longer-exists-The-extermination-of-truth' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is interesting that fake pot hurts more people then the real thing......who's dumbass idea was it to make it ?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Synthetic marijuana was linked to 11,406 drug-related emergency department visits in 2010, according to a first-of-its-kind report ' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'how many were actually because of the synthijuana?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all of them.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'versus the synthijuana laced with bleach, antifreeze, other drugs, or whatever else stoners think would get them a better high?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just proves, nothing is better then the real thing.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'versus someone trying to sell synthijuana as the real deal, having their buyers realize they've been had, and come back to take a piece of their hide?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is all considered to be spice, just herbs with chemicals added.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it doesnt matter what kind of chemicals were added, it is fake pot.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it does matter. It could affect the actual cause of death.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you're gonna get way more fucked up if you inhale bleach, doesn't mean bleach gives a good high or that it's the sj that killed you.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of pot, did you hear how that Canadian was denied his Super Bowl moment because he got busted 32 years ago?' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Stupor Bowl.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The new vaccine for TB doesnt work.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'How nice, the state of north dakota is stealing the mineral rights of people who land borders waterways.' T3/r7/2013-02-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a 77 year old landowner bought the minerals right to his land back in 1979 for $1200....it borders the missouri river....when an oil company came knocking, the state said no way, it owned the mineral rights, and leased them to the oil company for $600,000....the landowner and hundreds of others are suing the oil company and the state.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The most expensive photograph in the world sold for $4.3 million' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'must be nice to have 4.3 mill to spend on a photograph' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'especially considering the photograph is of a river.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it could be the best photograph on earth or beyond, still isn't worth 4.3 million' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its just an opportunity to showcase conspicuous consumption' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is a one of a kind also, the factory in the background and the people walking pets on the sidewalk next to the river were digitally edited out.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the same photographer sold another photo taken inside a supermarket for $3.3m' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'pure idiocacy' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'also pure jibberish, but you get the point' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no different then buying the original songs of the beatles for $60 million, or the workbook of leonardo da vinci.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah, thats what I was getting at' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'an unknown artist drawing of billy the kid made in 1880 sold for $2.3 million...the only known copy.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The 1933 Double Eagle sold at auction on July 30, 2002, for $6.6 million, plus the 15% buyer's fee, which brought the total cost to the buyer to $7,590,000, plus $20 to monetize the coin and compensate the Mint for the $20 it believes it lost when the coin was thought to have been stolen.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That double eagle gold coin was never released by the US mint, so very few exist.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the one that was sold in 2002 was stored at the WTC federal reserve vault, and was moved a month before the attack to Fort Knox.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'To much of a coincidence I think.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Talk about a waste of money.....the US govt has spent over $20 million trying to confiscate the 'stolen' 1933 double eagle gold coins so that they could be melted down.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'traffic jams in 2011 cost american drivers almost $121 billion, up almost 8% from 2010.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the avg person spent 38 hours per year in traffic in the US....with washington dc top on the list at 58 hours per year avg.' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, the hysteria continues: Cops arrest 10yr old for bringing toy gun to school' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'latest estimates from the Congressional Budget Office arew that Obamacare will push 7 million working americans out of their job-based insurance coverage' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like a victory there' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dhXPlCjr0Vw' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'awesome' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I guess the pope of black people Jesse Jackson says that gun owners are the new terrorists' T3/r7/2013-02-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'That Obama' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US postal service pays its garbage collectors a starting pay of $22 an hour plus govt benefits.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'surprised France had the balls to actually engage in a fight in Mali, but I am impressed with how well they are doing so far in whacking those islamic terrorists.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best headline of the day "6th Graders asked to design communist flag"' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though rumours out of RT suggest that UK government looking at plans to enforce "black box recorders" on all internet users' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound practical or likely, but given I hadn't heard it locally, I'll try and keep and eye on it' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'France is doing a pretty good job at killing terrorists in mali.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'keeps their dissenters at home distracted' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UK story is legit and a rewriting of a communications bill that got shot down last year' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fucking spooks, they don't learn' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bruce Willis comes out against gun controls' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rock on Bruce, shame Danny Glover is a fucking retard' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, how can he fight terrorists without guns ?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(or germans)' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I heard today that California Democrats in the state legislature are proposing a bill that requires all gun owners to purchase violence-liability insurance before they can buy a gun. This means that if you kill a criminal your premiums will go up as your insurance has to pay for his funeral costs.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'does the bill explicitly state the gun owner has to pay for funeral costs of they use the weapon in lawful self defense?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'a radio caller also made the point that it was unclear if this was just for new guns or not, and that the democrats were looking to the future in the form of suing gun-owners for lack of insurance or otherwise holding them liable for the costs incurred.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '35 new pyramids have been discovered in Sudan, they are around 2000 years old.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dunno, but since this is California they probably won't exempt for that.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'so, the bill in fact has nothing in it changing who pays for the funerals of criminals in self defense cases?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There is no such thing as self defense in kalifornia, if you shoot an evil doer, they put you in prison and give the evil doer $2 million.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'you win, I'm trolled and gonna look that one up' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'florida sounds awesome. you can "stand your ground" and shoot people in the back' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'lol.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in Texas you can protect your own home, and just added, your neighbors home as well....:)' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if they can give a burglar $2 million for pain and hardship because you accidentally ended up locking him in your garage with no way out and nothing to eat for 3 days but dry dog food and pepsi, I'm sure someone's going to point at the gun owner and cry foul.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'yep, very first google result completely disagrees with that - Cali has self defense laws just like any other sensible governing state' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and if your lawsuit is deemed frivolous, you've gotta pay all the legal costs.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, at least there is one side that always wins' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'laws on the books already do not equate to bills not passed yet, Taokan. Back to google!' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US postal service is stupid.....there should be mail service every damn day....and just increase the cost of a stamp by 15 cents and get it over with.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and while they are at it, allow people to pay bills at the post office, and buy prepaid long distance cards, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no reason why the US postal service couldnt be making a profit.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'pay bills in the post office :D i don't think i can pay any of my bills over the counter any more' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You would be surprised, millions of people pay bills by going to grocery stores or other places every day.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'in third world countries' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, people without bank accts, which is about 50 million americans.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's what i mean' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'some of your shit's backwards' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'people still using dial up and all that' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have been to 3rd world nations, it is much worse than western countries.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i haven't paid bills over the counter for at least the last ten years' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Schneider National is hiring 200 drivers to haul oil/sand/water in the oil fields.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I use a credit card for everything.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'love those miles.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'don't have a credit card' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have 1.7 million airline miles atm.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'what does that even mean?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it means I can fly to Hawaii for free about 34 times.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hawaii can't be 50000 miles away' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'unless you do a trip around the world first' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or I can upgrade a coach seat on a flight to first class for 50k miles.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i just pay for my things. easier in the long run' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'using a credit card and paying each month is the best way to do it.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you can keep your money longer and earn interest, plus get miles for every dollar.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'why do you care if the bank earns interest?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I earn interest in the money.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not the damn credit card company.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'wait. you earn interest on money you don't actually have?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's very nice of the banks' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Yes, because the money that will pay the bill to the credit card ONCE a month still earns interest in my bank acct' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'When you use cash, that money is gone, and no interest earned.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and you don't pay interest on your credit so you get a net profit?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure do, cause you are not charged interest unless roll over the balance.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'anyway, it works better for me if i spend money i have' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am what credit card companies call a DEAD BEAT, because I pay my credit card bill on time every month so that they cannot charge me interest.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'why don't you start the month with the money that you already have instead of spending it in advance?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What?' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'like, spend money instead of credit' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Because then you dont earn interest on that cash if you pay for it right when you buy it.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and you dont get airline miles.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'right. the miles' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't get the interest part tho. sound counter-intuitive for you to have the upper hand in this' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is called common sense :)' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the miles are apparently very important and i'll take your word for that' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'depends how he's investing his extra cash' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'like for example, where I work there's a stock purchase program, so if I can manage to score an extra 1000 bucks interest free for a given period of time, I can techincally be vesting that in the ESPP and make money on it way ahead of bank interest' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hmm, ok' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'regular interest rates are pretty craptastic though, like 3% on most savings accounts, winning a month's interest is like making .3% on your money' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'still better than getting nothing by spending the cash instead of credit.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm a cash fan myself. only use the bank for paying for shit online' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'cash gives you control over your money and makes spending it feel "real". at least for me it does' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'card payments don't feel like spending money to me and that's a slippery slope' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the benefit will of course go away if stores start charging you extra to use the credit cards though, which the new federal law allows them to do.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'makes sense' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the credit card companies charge shitloads from merchants. especially amex' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, but that cost is included in the price you pay for stuff in the stores regardless of cash or credit.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i care about local small businesses as well' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'many places don't even have card terminals because they can't afford it' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'one guy recently passed the 10 million mile mark on United......' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all his miles are actual miles though, not credit card miles.' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'negative worth' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'mis' T3/r7/2013-02-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'American and United airlines both sell a lifetime first class ticket for $350,000' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Aw, kalifornia is mad at Texas for buying commercials in the state telling kalifornia businesses that they should move to Texas, because we are pro business.' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'libtards are going craaaaaaazy!' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We really need to switch to gas cooling for power plants.....by 2030, about 11% of all fresh water use will be for cooling power plants.' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts yawns. T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not cutting it that much, are they?' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops mis' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what do ya'll think about the OCAAT form of learning?' T3/r7/2013-02-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Qatar's economy grew by 19% in 2012.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'God, Mcdonalds fucke up their apple pie.....I miss the nice crispy flaky apple pie they used to serve......it was 100% better then the baked crap they have now.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe they decided that mcdonald's in america has to be worse than elsewhere!' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Because Alaska indians made better deals with the US govt, while the lower 48 indians keep getting screwed :p' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I wonder if Hasbro is going to sue Iran for stealing it's warplane design. The 'new' iranian jet looks like it is made from plastic, and a toy...Where are the damn rivets ?' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The new Webb Telescope will be 100x stronger then the Hubble Telescope, and it will orbit the earth at 1 million miles away, compared to Hubble which is 350 miles above earth.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'diet coke has only 1 calory. In the interests of neutrality, other diet drinks are available, e.g. water' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cocaine is 0 calorie also' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'is that true?' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'I doubt' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably, though not technically a drink' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'marijuana is 0 calorie' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends what you cook it into' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'idd' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'cocaine is never pure cocaine' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ok, maybe 15 calories, the same as spinach' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'noway that there's no energy in a hemp leaf' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'cocaine is made of gasoline and coca leaves, isn't it?' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'california lawmakers are announcing a semi-auto confiscation plan' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like that'll help' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I doubt south american growers and producers would use valuable gasoline, when water works.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'cocaine is not water soluble in the form that occurs in the plant' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, Jim Tucker is still alive' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'synthetic cocaine.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lets go get rich.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lol, poll: Hillary Clinton most popular actor on american political stage' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'San Bernardino cops waste $2000 harassing a woman hiking in the desert' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i couldn't care less, it's a bit naughty because it's misrepresentation, but i don't have any qualms about eating horse provided it's healthy meat' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops, mis' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'yum' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'you should personally care about a company lying to you about what is in your food' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, but that's not why most people are complaining' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'not because the meat happens to come from a horse' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '15 year old mare is yummy.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally tend to avoid non-local meat as far as possible' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'this is why we have the FDA and USDA in the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'is it snowing yet ?' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Has the end of the world by snow come ?' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'yes' T3/r7/2013-02-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh no, not a wizard of oz remake.' T3/r7/2013-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, US imports of oil dropped by $4.6 billion in December 2012.' T3/r7/2013-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'For all of 2012, the U.S. trade gap fell by 3.5 percent to $540.4 billion.' T3/r7/2013-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wow, almost 40 million people visited Las Vegas in 2012....a new record.' T3/r7/2013-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the mars rover drilled into mars, and discovered oil!' T3/r7/2013-02-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Shirley Basset?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Some European beurocrats to be turned into "secret agents" and become trolls to fight euroskepticism online' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'most of them are here allready' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, it's mostly for sheepbook' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's where the people are' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obama doesn't seem too happy listening to this guy speak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PFb6NU1giRA' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'Watching it now' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Beastling: 'oh hi people' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's quite long with a large preamble, he starts kicking establishment heads around 3/4 of the way through' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'seriously educated and smart black guy, hat is off to him' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I ade it past the bird story, I loled and spilled a little beer:P It's good so far' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'DHS watchdog OK's 'suspicionless' seizure of electronic devices along border' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially legalising DHS theft of your phones and laptops' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is pretty awful but it is also a good thing TN' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is a good thing?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'expanding the suspect pool' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'on what planet is it a good thing?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it will foster the kind of general backlash that will end these draconian acts' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you can meh all you want' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't work' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because it will not foster anything' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'i've been getting "randomly" selected for this type of stuff for the last ten years' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will be made to believe that it's normal and justified, there'll be no backlash' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no one cares though because they were being selective about it and it didn't affect the general population' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why they're pushing all kinds of stuff right now to get you used to it' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm telling you its much easier to justify these kind of things when it is selective' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's selective then you have selection criteria. By controlling the criteria it removes the problem' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but the selection criteria is retarded, it is very easy to "fit the profile" in America' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thats why you need good people controlling the criteria' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'TSA has been ramping up "security" for years now, but they haven't stopped anything major' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's pretty easy, it was set out in the 4th ammendment' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'freedom from unreasonable search and seizure' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'key word being unreasonable, who decides?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'read on' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it doesn't clarify who decides, just stipulates the need for a search warrant' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, need to go to the judge outlining what is to be searched, what you're searching for, and what your justification is' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's called due process' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's why there's uproar from liberty minded people in the UK over plans to put blackbox recorders at all ISP's' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Internet service providers?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I can understand their outrage, but they are closing the barn door after the horse has left' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's not' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not even about efficacy' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's about legal precedent' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't disagree with you in that it needs to get worse in order for more people to wise up to it' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but i have to live through this, and i don't want to have to' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm now off to eat food while i can still afford such fucking luxuries' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'bon apetite' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Egypt bans Youtube for 1 month, lol' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Christopher Dorner's story suggests that there is a problem with left-wing extremists, and therefore the democrat party should be listed as a terrorist organisation and banned' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'there is a problem with extremists, period' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i doubt the know the meaning of the word' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The best serial killers go from state to state, and never stay for too long in any one place.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wouldn't be surprised if that cop-killing obama supporter pitches up in Texas' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of the people he hates there' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"suspicionless seizure of electronic devices" is a violation of the USA Constitutional Ammendment against unwarranted seizure of private property ' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'DHS is an unknown accronym outside of the USA or UK' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'suspicionless seizure, period. Forfeiture laws should only be applied when the owner commits a crime, not when a crime in general is perpetrated.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'got to protect tsa goons who pilfer ipads, hans' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gotta look after the ruling class and their goons' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'for example, if a random drug dealer uses the hood of your car to lay out his drugs and count the buyer's money the DEA should not be able to impound your car unless you were either the dealer or the buyer. Such a law did in fact exist in the 90s in the US, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who cares? you can now be assassinated by the government for having had contact with someone who is classified a terrorst' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given that anything, including having political views that oppose the quango, is considered terrorism, you tell me where that leaves due process?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you could always be assassinated for contact with a terrorist.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts seems to be a right-wing extremist, and in the words of Tigernuts: "therefore the Libertarian (and Republican) party should be listed as a terrorist organisation and banned"' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stop being racist, Zade' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nah, not right-wing. Only a left-wing nutter would play the racist card.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'playing cards is racist' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is playing the "race card" to excuse the racial deficiencies of the Tigernuts opinions -- (but what race is Tigernuts)' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tigernuts is doing an impression of self-styled "trendy" liberals' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'race has absolutely nothing to do with being racist, Zade. It's just what you call the other side when they disagree with what you say.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts gallantly tips his hat to the soul of Hans. T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that's bogus' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it's bogus, but it's what's been happening of late' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's exactly what the left-wing democrats did when Obama and his policies were under attack.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'dismissing racism out of hand is bogus' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'for example?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bah, illiterate foreigners (and republicans, and extremist trolls) that are attempting to change dictionary definitions to extremely bad exaggerated-scope definitions' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Michael Moore' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jason Whitlock' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jesse Jackson' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Al Sharpton.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'those are names... people accuse of them of "playing the race card"' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because racism is "dead"' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'debate Danny Glover' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jamie Foxx' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Michael More Donuts probably the worst public offender of it though' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is very easy to see that racism is alive and well in the US' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody said there was no such thing as racism' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'uh, black activists that cut their activism teeth on MLKJr's coattails throw the race card more than anyone.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, blacks are among the worst racists out there' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats preposterous' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yes' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'really' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how many people on twitter/facebook did we see during the election claiming that they were going to vote Obama, and I quote "cos he black"' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'if nothing else, it's kind of a racist statement to say that people of a certain color are more racist.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the civil rights movement is irrelevent now. They HAVE to throw the race card, or else they lose their last little bit of influence.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whose?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'but I agree that there's way more acceptance when racism goes in that direction' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'genocide in Africa was done by racist africans (non-whites)' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'racism in the UK was largely a fabrication' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'far bigger problem was classism' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a load of crap, Zade' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I thought the Magna Carta took care of that?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'very easy to dismiss racism when it will most likely never affect you' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Magna Carta had been legislated out of existance centuries ago' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'racism will likely never affect anyone in this country' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in any meaningful non-criminal way' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'now that is a bold statement' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the ungrateful coloreds upon being let into GB did not want to be as lowerclass docile as the poor lowerclass whites' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'global economics are far too advanced to have shit in one country not affect folks in another.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok, let's put it a slightly more pragmatic way: Poverty, inequality, and corruption are all far bigger problems in the USA than racism' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its not an either or thing' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you are poor and black, you're double fucked' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(note to self: delete all Hanslanda poopyposts with cusswords -- since the Hanslanda troll is defecating irrelevant crap in public)' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not in the UK, twyst' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're poor and black you're quids in, here' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even better so if you're poor, black, single mother and a lesbian catholic' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I wouldn't be able to judge having never lived in the UK or spent much time there' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but being on welfare is no picnic, not like it's made out to be' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have very little genuine racism, but total system over the top positive descrimination' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the most descriminated against people here are white, heterosexual, unmarried single males over the age of 18' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if a war breaks out, there be racism' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'being on welfare and following the rules is no picnic. It's much better when the hood backs you up, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a picnic here' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's why the country is broke' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, being a white male is so hard :'(' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Hanslanda flails comically in an attempt to throw up various gang signs. T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that seems like a faulty premise to me TN' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its not like people on welfare are funneling the money to the Cayman Islands or eating it' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or depositing it in their trust fund' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'poor people are generally living hand to mouth' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, very true, hand to mouth with cars, booze, fags, satellite tv, the latest gadgets, fast food, drugs, foreign holidays, and lots of other luxuries that are often hard to come by for people who have to work for a living' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be fucking awful for them' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there are more black millionaires in the midwest than white ones now. Has been since roughly '10, but dunno how the recent meltdown's affected them. Could be it's no longer the case anymore.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but I'm sure they just love to give The Man another 50k in taxes now that Obamacare's taking over.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's going to be hilarious if/when "Obamacare" is a huge success' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how are you measuring success?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's far too expensive to ever be a success.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is expensive about it?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'forcing everyone who can afford it to get health care? seems like it would drive down the price' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already been proven not to, twyst' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'health care is cheaper in the vast majority of developed countries' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'don't see how it could get worse' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you have essentially an entire country full of sick people who either cannot afford insurance or were basically disallowed it (pre-existing conditions, inherently-dangerous occupation like firefighter, etc) who now get it.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it can be worse by making people poorer, and not improving the healthcare they are provided' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'those people aren't going to get suddenly better as far as the type of customer they'll be, so the more the insurance gets used the more expensive it's going to be.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not true hans' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'a stitch in time saves nine' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and all that' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you go to the dentist for checkups and he tells you, you need to brush your teeth you have cavities' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or you need fillings' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's much cheaper than a root canal' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'my dentist says root canals are no big deal. They only hurt because of when you get them your mouth's pretty much already fucked up.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'true, but the point is still valid' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '~200$ filling vs a 1500$ root canal' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people in general don't do preventative visits' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not when they have to choose between rent and food' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's an irrelevant one. Any time you make a claim, your premium will go up. Small stuff, included. Obamacare adds a lifetime of claims in a very short amount of time, and most of those claims are people the insurance companies have already denied in order to keep costs down.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not to keep costs down, but to keep profits up' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'twyst: people will coverage in general don't do preventative visits' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so when people are having to choose between rent and food, here's a really fucking good idea, let's put taxed way up and force these already struggling workers to buy health insurance' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Which is why there needs to be a govt paid medical health plan for everything....if only a basic one to provide coverage like dentist visits, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'with* coverage' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we can easily afford a basic health coverage plan for all citizens.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'very true Riz' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then do it, riz, don't screw around with all this bullshit' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is forced by the right wingers' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the left wanted single payer from the beginning' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I vote for it whenever possible, but the morons in congress who do everything against the wishes of the citizens keep delaying it.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'morons in congress and senate will hold up anything if their paymasters don't want it' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you want government to spend your money, but you object to them firing your guns?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no idea what you mean by that' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US will have a single payer health insurance plan eventually......it is inevitable, otherwise there will be major changes in how the govt works.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the ruling elite want a feudal system, they want the money and the power, and the lavish lifestyle, and they want all of you to be serfs mired in wage slavery' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well they have succesfully conflated that with capitalism and the American dream to super duper exceptionalism' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so you have people earning under 35K a year carrying water for the multibillionaires' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and I reset that statement.....most rich people want a more fair system.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if we just give them more money....they will give us JOBS' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'resent even' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look on the bright side, you could always have a shite health service like the UK's' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or we could have one like Germany or Japan.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts rolls on the floor laughing at Rizgoth's antics! T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or Australia or most of the scandinavian countries' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Even Canada has a better system.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'scandinavia's not all that' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it really boggles the mind though TN. Pretty much any other system would be better than the one currently in the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'spend multiples more per person on healthcare and get worse results' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, so it is amusing to see the wrong problem being dealt with' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the right problems so to speak are political suicide' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds like justification for revolution' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'curtailing anyones 'right' to make as much money as humanly possible is carnal sin' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dispose of the system and go back to your states, set up healthcare how you see fit' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we tried the articles of confederation before. They sucked' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the only way independent states work is if they are well and truly independent' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'healthcare at a state level would address differing political approaches across the country' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would remove the need for country-wide agreement' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it would make sense if everything was either federal or state' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but this hodgepodge of powers is infeasible and impractical' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the original plan was that everything except foreign policy and inter-state trade would b e state-side' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a hodgepodge because you guys didn't keep tabs on it' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US already does federal block grants for medicare, and it is the most efficient healthcare system in the country.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but it is underfunded.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'who cares about healthcare when there is the gun debate :P' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gun debate is over' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone forgot to tell the californian government though' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the problem with healthcare in the US is the private area, not the public.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'tell that to the repubs' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will never have a decent system unless you go to fully state-provided, or fully independent' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you go fully independent you'll always have an access problem for the poor' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you go fully government, you will always have problems surrounding rationing and availability' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'depending on how it is done.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'full govt health care = more cost per person' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if you (the fool) give the rich more money, they shall gamble and risk the extra money in unsafe derivatives (so the extra money supposedly earns more money) and hope that those manipulating the derivatives may actually earn money longterm (but they don't, they go for lazy fast shorterm environment-exploiting-ruining profits - they may even invest in derivatives piled upon derivatives, and that eventually collapses, (since so few of the rich are actually doing any actual work - and all the others are investor-parasites, believing to let their money do the work, as though dead papermoney works))' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US private system is already 3x more expensive then the same care in Germany or Japan.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not necessarily true, elch' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'don't let facts get in the way though' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you have a competent government (ROFLWTFBBQ) that can prevent the highway robber that goes on in the medical and pharmaceutical system, yes' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I dont see german or japanese doctors quitting the field because of runaway malpractice cases like they do in the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is the definition of runaway malpractice?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't see japanese doctors giving dying old ladies 2 hip operations knowing that they'll get paid top dollar for it regardless' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'if you put it that way TN no one would disagree' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'but the right has mastered spin and coopted the media' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FeLLR3LWtv4' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh fuck off have they' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that turns into "Death Panels" before you can blink' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not "the right", it's the lobbyists' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'listen to Mr Carlin, he knows best' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich with all those humongous piles of money are no longer actually working - they are seeking methods of earning more virtual-money from virtual-money -- and there is not enough actual production in the world to sustain profits for that increasing humungous pile of virtual-monies seeking more profits, more profits!, more! ' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'hint: in Singapore we have more than one govt healthcare company. Probably the best reason for our efficiency.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'do you have a car in singapore' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'cars are way too expensive...' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rizgoth believes in profits from ripping oil and gas out of the planet -- but recent estimates stated that the world is using up oil and gas 3x faster than new oil and gas is being found ' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what is it like 90k pluss for even the least expensive' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would be the point of a car in singapore? not like you can fucking DRIVE anywhere' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'can cost nearly 100k for a 10 year piece of the quota, yes.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Suuure, and that 3.5 trillion barrels of new oil in the US is a myth.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'd be like owning a car living in the centre of London' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'lots of people drive over the border to shop, for one.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the cheap oil and gas is going to run out, and when that happens, billions shall begin starving' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just anothe termite hole full of shitheads crammed in ontop of each other' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'but most regular people just take the bus or train to work.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what about scooters' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the only thing preventing oil from being produced is technology.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and extraction costs' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which again comes down to technology' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the tipping point is when it takes more than a barrel of oil to extract a barrel of oil' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'they really ought to expand train capacity though... current system reaching its limits...' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'use renewable energy to extract oil!' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and then some oil engineer will come up with a new idea to extract the oil cheaper then last week.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'it can never cost more than a barrel of oil to extract a barrel... the price of the extracted barrel would just go up' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not in cash value Elchanan' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in energy terms' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'extracting the expensive oil and gas is going to be expensive, (expensive environmentally)' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '20 years ago the thought of shale oil was just an oil engineer in West Texas who thought there was a better way to get at large amounts of oil and gas.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and today we enjoy hydraulic fracturing because of that research.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'over here in the UK, we run our cars off the finest french red wine' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least, that's what I think it is, it's as fucking expensive as french red wine' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'thats just oil thats not worth extracting' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'fracturing foir oil -- destroy the water supply -- be unable to grow crops because the water is fracted up bad' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'unless technology impoves' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dont be an idiot, the oil that is being fractured is 8000 feet deeper than the water supply.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'mistakes happen Riz' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can purify water...' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I've seen videos of flammable tap war on youtube' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best not run the hydron collider either, incase you create a black hole' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts rolls his eyes, disgusted. T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and the daily show/colbert report' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'all that water should be required to be cleaned' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure, and I can drill a well on one of my pieces of property that has methane leaking into the water table naturally.....and it lights up also.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but drill 50 feet deeper and you hit pure water.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'kind of like reducing air pollution companies should be charged on contaminated water' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a supposedly clean example does not justify the dirty examples' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'maybe H2O credits' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you get SSRi's, hormones, chemical fertiliser run offs, waste products from the chemical industry that causes IQ reductions and neurological damage, all present in the water supply, and you're obsessed with methane leaching?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and drill even deeper to hit oil and gas, that the up leakage poisons the water table' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'just like people should be charges for each gallon of water they pull out of a well (at least in some areas' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts implies with his middle finger that he would like Elchanan to fuck off! T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there we go again, you talking about crap you have no clue about....do you even know how an oil or gas well is drilled ?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst nods. T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government does not own the water, they can get lost' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'please enlighten us then.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well first they dig this big hole in the ground until the hit a big underground lake of oil :P' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much oil is required to poison a whole water table -- and does a poisoned water table recover fast or extremely slow' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'stop being patronizing' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'does the govt own the air' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'then stop being stupid.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not yet, elch' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'give them five minutes' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'drilling an oil or gas well is a complicated endeavour and they take extreme care to not pollute the water table.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and when oil drilling attempt is a economic dud, do they leave the hole to leak up some oil into the water table' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but they can easily fuck it up Riz' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which is why they use concrete well casings to protect the water.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'water usage has externalities just like polluting into the atmosphere' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'and before BP a vast majority of that extreme care was pencil whipping' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'conrete, steel, well mud, and more concrete to protect the water.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't matter if the cement job is shit' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'or it is an H2S well and 40 years from now the casing is pitted out' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'extreme-care lips-flapping -- "read my lips" pr ' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There were 8500 wells dug in that year, and one had a problem....bite me.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can have a guaranteed clean environment, twyst and zade, provided you kill yourselves along with everyone else on the planet' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'wells create cones of depression and depending on how large and how many cones the water table can get lowered' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there was one HUGE problem, I'm sure there were more less nationally publicized ones' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, nature messes herself up from time to time, best get rid of her too' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even the law of averages would have had a larger number of wells having a problem' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'this can be a big problem in costal areas due to salt water intrusion' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in that 1 acknowledged failure (out of 8500 alleged nonfailures)-- what was the environmental damage' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go find a sensible alternative to oil then' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'off you go kthxbye' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'don't get me wrong, drilling for oil/gas is necessary' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'there is no need to pretend it is safe though' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is a lot safer than the alternative.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'considerably more functional and cheaper than the alternatives, too' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'safer is fine, but telling people it is safe gives them false expectations' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'another tipping point is when the energy required to extract oil < energy needed to convert gas to liquid fuels' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is safe, just not 100%, nothing is 100% safe.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'NGLs are a pita' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'keep the oil in the ground, start rationing oil while the oil is plentiful, find alternatives to food and transportation, reduce population, reduce dependence on oil from the ground' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'liquid gas fuels, because those are soo safe' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how about you start first....get your ass off the mud and go ration your electricty.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'turn off the lights and go live in a cave.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, they need to kill themselves, all of the caves are off limits because of agenda 21' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and besides, their breathing is drowning polar bears' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can also use CO2 to grow algae then crack the algae and separate it into a oil part and a solid part that has protein content' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the magnetic poles shift and reverse align, during the shift, the electromagnetic protection from the sun shall likely be absent' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'says who' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What is your address? I would like to send you some tinfoil.....' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'humans may hide indoors, unsure about food crops' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be one of those rubbish digital magnetic fields that the earth has' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'an analogue magnetic field wouldn't be worried about such things' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'do the GPS satellites depend on the van allen belt for protectiuon' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'suffice to say, we are not going to run out of oil, because we can MAKE oil out of any carbon source right now.....even dead people.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're planning on making food out of dead people' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'for a net loss in energy ' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'soylent brown is dead people.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if the poles reverse align (and or do not provide any align during the reversal), and if the GPS satellites are disabled, interesting disaster scenario there' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'apples and oranges again, a company in missouri has a proven process that turns turkey and chicken waste into oil.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'at a cost of $80 a barrel.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the poles reverse align, other than some disruption, things will continue as normal' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is a net loss of energy and wouldn't work on a large scale...laws of thermodynamics' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when folk start starving, people eating live people are likened to zombies' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'considering it costs $80 a barrel to produce, ie $80 of energy and materials, and oil is $100 a barrel...that is a PROFIT' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the same way how canadian tar sands now costs $35 a barrel to produce.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'money is arbitrary Rizgoth, it costs more than 1 joule of energy to generate 1 joule's worth of oil' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but 20 years ago it cost $120 a barrel' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'basic thermo' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cost of energy is still cost of energy.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'takes 8 units of oil energy to put 1 unit of food energy on the table -- garbage scraps are unused food' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so what.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the economics would be better with a proper carbon tax too, since making oil from food waste would not incur a tax the same way oil wells would.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so this would make sense in an improving efficiency sense, but it could never work on a large scale' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think they're trying to claim that for energy purposes the world is a closed system, when clearly it is not' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so those apples and oranges are likely going to require energy to produce -- likely eat up that alleged $20 profit' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it isn't a closed system, but getting the necessary energy density in a storable medium...oil... is expensive' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'somewhere between Bogota and Tunis lies your point' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it seems like you're wilfully misunderstanding' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, i don't think so' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we use oil because it's the most economical and useful means' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'recycling/repurposing waste to a usuable form is good, but it can't be the whole system as Riz is suggesting' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this will change over time' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'again, thanks to technology.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but we will never run out of oil or gas.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll need SOMEthing in the future, it sure as hell won't be a windmill' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'no way to know that TN' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes we do' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You wont want a windmill right next your house....trust me.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they make noise.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'windmills are good when they are built where people do not live.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'could always burn coal' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and that means big trunk lines for that power will need to be built.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if the world wasn't so overpopulated and dumbed down, people could be largely energy self-sufficient' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is the one of the two main problems holding alternative energy back' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'storage and delivery' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most people love wind turbines until they realize huge trunk lines for the power will need to built on their land.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is Russia buying tons of gold so that Putin and his cronies can spirit it away (like the former communist elite did in 1991) when Russia collapses?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'papermoney is vapormoney' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Algae is the future of oil.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'rare physical metals obey the law of conservation of mass and energy -- virtual money does not obey that law' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'gold certificates are virtual money' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meh, i'd never buy gold certificates' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I own some 80 year old gold certificates....' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$20 gold baby!' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'actual physical gold is the desired commodity for those preparing for another financial meltdown where virtual monies disappear' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh, that's why bigtime investors have been buying it up as a hedge' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'buy silver instead.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they tax silver sales here at 20%' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because they're godawful cunting authoritarians' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently, investments are "luxuries" and therefore subject to value added tax' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'silver is sexy.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$50 silver by 2015!' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'are the banks and the extremely rich exempt from that VAT' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'corporations have all manner of ways of wiggling out of VAT, the rich are partly immune by means of using offshore tax dodges' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Oklahoma increased oil production by 13% in 2012.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'distorted meaningless statistics used by government and media increased by 1,000,000,000% in 2012' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'heh' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, North Dakota increased oil production by 35% in 2012 !' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1 in 6 americans have mental illness.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you mean autism?' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, just mental illness.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '1 in 300 or so have autism' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'up from 1 in 20,000 or so, 30 years ago.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's more common than that, if I remember the commercials right.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most cases of autism are probably something else, but was thrown into autism because it didnt fit exactly.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but some cases really are autism.' T3/r7/2013-02-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'being 99% sure means you still don't know.' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pope Nazinger is stepping down as pope. Don't popes usually just die in office?' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Bonus points to Benedict for self-insight' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Rick Perry getting some serious amounts of press coverage over his poaching of businesses, all the flack is doing is highlighting how business friendly Texas is compared to the whingers' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more major discrepencies reported in the account of Bin Laden's death' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a Maryland school district seeks to steal the intellectual property rights of every one of it's students and staff' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, "Child annoyance" is an actual crime. Not as in "OMG, it's a crime when it shouldn't be" but "That's a hilarious name".' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'iirc there was some crazy republican who wanted death penalty for disobedient kids' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i guess he was annoyed by kids' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but hey, who isn't?' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about death penalty for the parents of unruly kids?' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, that's definitely more sane and really does something that you would propose' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'does sound like something*' T3/r7/2013-02-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how about death penalty for parents?' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 2012, the US Govt gave away $50 billion in foreign aid, which includes both military and economic aid to other countries. Most the money went to countries that didnt like us in the first place.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like the UN is getting all huffy over North Korea's garden explosives' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '41% of obamafones were given to people who didn't qualify' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: ''sok, much of the farm aid money didn't even go to farmers, either.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Thats because Obamaphones are used to track people duh' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who would win in a boxing fight between Barrack Obama and Kim Jong Un?' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'My vote is on Un, you can never tell with those asians' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally i'm cheering on North Korean nuclear missiles' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in fact, a lot of that money went to well-off, if not rich, black frauds who claimed to be farmers when really they were yuppies living in the city with one of those upside-down tomato baskets hanging from their condo balcony.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kim jun is a fat guy, can barely move....obama knows karate!' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, he does not know karate, he doesn't know how to shoot, but he's a wizz with photoshop' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama also stands 10 feet tall and lightning bolts shoot out of his arse...' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has a reality bending field, too' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Are you saying he can bend light?!' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chuck norris taught him tai chi' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, i'm saying he lies through his teeth' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Maybe Chuck Norris is his Jedi Trainer?' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'everybody bends light.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's not really an Obama thing, Tiger. More of a politician thing.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Agreed Hans' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'true' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you should see his grill, though. Obama really CAN bend light with it in.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides, obama doesnt need to fight...he has a 12 man secret service team that will fight for him....kim un would be lucky to even fit through the door.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Well then lets assume they are in a sumo match' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force, and like force, like fire, is a dangerous servant and a fearful master' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'The only reason the government is a tyrant in the first place is because of the people heading it' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kim un needs to visit the US so that we can kidnap his ass and show him Gitmo.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best thing you can do to Kim is leave him alone' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what about the rest of him, Riz?' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'biden's been caught being dodgy again' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's just biden this time.' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good ole Joe, can always rely on him coming up with something shit' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the best thing Biden can do for his country is die of old age' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'right about now' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Biden, to a meeting on almost exclusively left-wing bought-off media magnates at a Gun-Control round table: "To be very blutn with you, we're counting on all of you, the legitimate news media to cover these discussions because the truth is that times have changesd"' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, running that through a bullshit filter, we get "You guys are the democrat party propoganda arm, we expect you to stick solely to the narrative that WE make"' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'climate change alarmists blame near asteroid miss on human activity' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wtf?' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I saw that somewhere, some scientist type accelerating past any madness horizon you can think of?' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps if they lost some weight, the gravitational pull of the earth would be less, and fewer asteroids would come close. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uh huh' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so who is going to watch state of the union adress' T3/r7/2013-02-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'Well Rubio just knocked it out of the park' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakata: 'Do guys that pee sitting down make you giggle? :P' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would love to see the federal minimum wage increased to $9.00 an hour, and tied to inflation.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the last time the minimum wage was a living wage was in the 1960s.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'While $9.00 is not a living wage, it is a step in the right direction.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, LAPD go "Waco" on Dorman while lobbyists use it to justify using armed drones on civilians within America' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meanwhile, man gets raided by police after posting picture of toy soldier with toy mortar on facebook' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not saying the feds have totally lost the plot... but.... well actually, they have' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'so they burned Dorner alive eh?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'LAPD were heard to say "Burn that motherfucker down" before setting fire to the cabin where Chris Dorner was holed up, possibly burning him alive' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ohhhh yes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'God bless America, right? [end sarcasm]' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I seen the CNN feed, they said the fire started from a flashbang and that caused his ammo to start going off in the cabin LOL what a bullshit story' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Actually, should have used a drone to pop a missile into the cabin....would have been quicker.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Brujah: 'aka Waco BBQ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'either way saved the taxpayers a few million dollars though.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, riz, they'll now have a public enquiry' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nope, it will die just as quickly.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'In the wake of the change of revolution in Tunisia, huge numbers of Islamic schools have popped up, teaching an extreme form of Sharia' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bahrain's public go on massive protests on the 2nd yr anniversary of the start of the unrest' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and Qatar hand seized Syrian embassy over to the jihadists' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK has lost 450 drones in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 5 years' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the end of the world news, enjoy burning in hell' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now back to your regular programming' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Brujah: 'Justin Bieber got a haircut!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Krache gasps as she realizes what Brujah did. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'am i the only one who in response to "State of the Union Address" wanted him to say "We're skint, mate"' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Are you slowpoke in human form?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Tiger, if I knew what skint might I might lol' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Brujah: 'lacking monies' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Oh then certainly agree with that statement' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what did you think of state of the union and it's response?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i normally abhor the Daily Caller, but i liked this strapline: "Its Wednesday morning, and thanks to President Barack Obamas State of the Union, the country is now give-or-take 6,439 words stupider."' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'of course you did. it has the name "obama" in it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't like him THAT much' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yes you do and you don't even realize it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Instead of cuts, lets raise taxes to pay for more spending on projects that are shovel-ready unless they actually are shovel-ready. Let us also get people who cant afford houses into houses' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'create disincentives for immigration' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and create disincentives for hiring. Finally, let us come together to pass laws that already exist, and to re-define words to cancel out laws that once existed.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the third response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iEJ75z13Ao' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'I guess Dorner may of had hostages in the cabin the police burned down' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'collateral damage, according to the feds' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mind you, the voice on the police radio that said "burn the motherfucker down" did sound suspiciously like Dagnir....' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'wasn't that obama? i don't even know who dorner is' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't follow current affairs, then?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dorner is the fired cop who went crazy and shot up Los Angeles's finest.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'oh, ok. i knew about the deranged cop but didn't bother to remember his name' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guessing you don't know who Chris Kyle is, then' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'a singer?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Selina's kid brother. It's why Catwoman and Batman feud so much.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'celebrated US army sniper murdered in... slightly murky circumstances' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'obama killed him or something?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, some guy hyped up on SSRi's' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'supposedly had PTSD, but never actually fought in combat' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'PTSD isn't actually a combat disease.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you can get it because you survived a building falling down on you in an earthquake.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but that's not how the media span it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they spun him as a combat veteran suffering PSTD' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so he was just pretending to be a celebrated army sniper?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, the victim was the sniper, not the murderer' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so how do you know he wasn't in combat?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his record says so' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he was a mechanic' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'served 1 tour and never saw combat' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quite prepared to believe he was mentally ill and shot him though' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when did he serve?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't recall, late 2000s i believe' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'surprised he never saw combat.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'did it say where he served?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'afghanistan' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, very surprised he never saw combat.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would he? he was a mechanic, not frontline infantry' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'several bases were getting bombed at the time around then, if I recall.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe so' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he likely wasn't on one that never saw any action, and that was the time the military was focused on fixing Iraq. Afghanistan was on the verge of repeating the soviet's mistakes.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/04/cybersecurity-bill-faq-disturbing-privacy-dangers-cispa-and-how-you-stop-it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good info' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'it is' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do you use https-everywhere plugin by any chance?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'oh the one that makes the smaller?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it's a plugin for firefox that will automatically use secure http transfer if the server supports it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'oh that one. Dont unse firefox' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'use something like it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but yeah, the biggest problem with CISPA, like just about everything else Obama and Bush have done, is make rules so absurdly loose and broad that privacy and freedom are trodden over because of loopholes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i know.. but looks that somepeople in that town will say nothing do nothing' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i dont get it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'they just let this people do as they wish... Once was called the land of the freedom.. now?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people have been trained to believe "if i have nothing to hide, i have nothing to fear"' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a generational thing, it's been 3 generations since ww2 so everyone has forgotten what it was like' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but.. did the delivery girls that the lapd shoot on them had nothing to hide...' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'in that land.. not in all lands' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would hesitate to say people are stupid, so much as say they are naive' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's a social-media thing. Current generation values sharing of intel more than they value privacy.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but yea social media thing' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'but i see the debates here and is the same thing.. Really the only person questioning here is Tiger' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'the rest is just repeating media thing... is very sad' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what a shock, i don't trust know liars' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the government does what it wants. That has been true since before the Articles of Confederation were written. What they are doing now is legislating what they already do so that there's something out in the open to point to.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you question the narative on absolutely anything, suddenly you're ac ook' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cooq*' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'and you guys are just going to let them?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure. Can't stop what's already happened.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'is sad that you think that way' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'tiger questioning is good' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fighting a snooping law in my own country. all you guys can do is petition your lawmakers and draw their attention to the flaws, and make it quite clear that if they don't act, you'll seen them voted out' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kinma: 'I agree... Question everything and everyone.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'I agree with tiger' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'in europe they stopped acta like that' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'hans do you know who aron swarts was?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the masses suffer for the lack of knowledge, contact your representative and get their view, if it's deficient, put them straight, then tell everyone in your area to do the same, make a leaflet, or a youtube video' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'in that link i posted you can call your senators and demand! to stop it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'call and make your friends call every second' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'end date is friday' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'just dont stand and say oh they taking it....' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in terms of active disobedience to this, it's tough because they're going after the endpoints of communication, so simply encrypting traffic won't help' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Ronda nods at Tigernuts. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to bypass the legislation, you'd not only need to use an operating system that is clean of trojans and corporate interest (knocks out microsoft, apple, and many branded linux distro's), you'd need to ensure the companies you deal with over the internet are not in the USA too, and have non-disclosure agreements in place' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this means no facebook, no google (use startpage instead)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'there is something like twitter will get the link' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'startpage are going to be betatesting their new encrypted email system soon' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Brujah: 'good info!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'https://github.com/sanity/tahrir/wiki/Overview' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'be carefull of your iphones' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, scrap your smartphone' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'change to solar power asap ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're more compromised than choirboy's arse' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're talking about prepping now, that's a bit off context, though having a measure of self sufficiency will certainly help weather the financial shitstorm' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'it also helps the planet :) i love the planet sorry' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not many people can afford to live in the country, unfortunately' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'im not talking about that.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i certainly intend to be offgrid-capable if/when i achieve that' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'just have some solar cels around not make your super roof and be a prep forever' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'where in iceland?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'iceland?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i mean offgrid is so difficult' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not difficult, but is expensive to set up' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need solar, wind, and possibly steam or diesel generator, biggest expense if a sizeable battery pack to store power' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'oh you mean making your own electricity water gas? that kind of offgrid?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'electricity and water is easy enough, russian farmers make their own gas, i personally wouldn't bother' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd go with 4-6 5kw wind turbines and about 12kw of solar, a steam boiler for the winter' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'well thats the thing your winter is so different at mine, but lived some of those cold ones' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'winter isn't terribly cold here, but is wet and dull' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'here is ok, and there is plenty of sunlight' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_cispa/?wGbRgeb to stop CISPA you can sign' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what are unlocked cellphones, and why are they so prized by some humans (and feared by other intolerant humans)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'stop trolling' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+are+unlocked+cell+phones' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'But Majic, clicking on links is hard.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Today in Republican insanity: Raising the minimum wage would/could/might/will hurt low-wage workers.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Because it'd make employers hire less people, which would give low-wage workers less opportunities to "hone their skills" in order to climb the corporate ladder... of low wage jobs)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And thus, we should not raise the minimum wage, ever.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not ever? no. But we should continue to have low wages for entry-level workers, especially kids fresh out of high school, who frankly aren't worth much more.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'a two stage minimum wage for people below and above the age of majority?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Nobody's saying give them 20 bucks an hour. But raising the minimum wage? Not crazy.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd go for that -- I think it'd encourage employers to give the teenagers a chance.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'We've raised ours here in Ontario a few times over the last few years. It's up to 10.25 right now, think it's going to 10.75 soon.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so are the Republicans supporting cheap child labour ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Marco Rubio, meanwhile, hags this to say "Minimum-wage laws have never worked in terms of helping the middle class attain more prosperity." - Yeah, I'm suuuuuure the Middle Class was just rich as fuck back when there were no minimum wage laws at all.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'min wage should be $10.00 per hour plu inflation each year, a min of 35 cents per year.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh? child labor makes it sound like you're looking at 12 year olds working all day in factories, not paying a 15 year old to work a few hours after school sometimes.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there are at LEAST 15 million people on min wage right now.....' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not including teens, but adults.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'does Masrco Rubio look like a criminal type' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Yes Riz, and we should give everyone a million dollars a year too. I mean, if everyone has a million dollars, everyone will be able to buy everything... right?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'm fine with fewer employed children if it means adults get a higher minimum wage.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which part of min wage of $10 did you not understand? I didnt say 1 million dollars, stop trolling.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'With adults with a higher minimum wage, maybe the children wouldn't HAVE to work part-time because their parents would be able to afford giving them more stuff.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'No, but your answer to the problem is to just give out more money. I exaggerated to make a point, but you are, in fact, making the same argument.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... because of course, kids should just get everything given to them by their parents and not work for things on their own.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'At 12-16? Yeah.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'because kids should be focusing on other things like being kids and doing well in school' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'I disagree at 16' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Forcing kids to go to school AND work at that age is insane.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Look, the min wage in 1967 was higher than the buying value today. The min wage NEEDS to be raised.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sorry, but I disagree. I totally think that parents should provide all the basic necessities.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'forcing?? wtf?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: '15+ should be able to work' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I meant 12-15. At 16, you could stand to work.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'usually, the minimum age to get even a few hours is 14' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, keep in mind that in Sweden, we start school a year later. I'm talking about not-High School kids vs. HS kids.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Of course Majic, but if they want concert tickets or a pair of 150$ shoes they should have to work for it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '14 is high school' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'krache, that's what I'm saying.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So for you that'd be 15. In Sweden, we start High School the year we turn 16.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'high school is 9th grade, which is 14' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'unless redshirted' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'not for everyone Majic' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '14-15 in the U.S., Majic.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'that's why I said unless redshirted :p' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'if kept back/delayed entry, is older, yes.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'well, first of all its not redshirted, it just depends on when your bday falls' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Washington State has a min wage of $9.08, or at least it was in 2012...not sure what it is now, or if that is the current rate.....' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'usually, if you are 5 on the first day of school, you are eligible for K.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, the highest minimum wage in the U.S. at this moment is Washington state's $9.19.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '(although it's a growing trend to keep summer-born boys back a year)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I was 13, graduated at 17, but because my bday is very late.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'at 2% a year? Oi. Yes, it needs to be raised, absolutely! However, a mandatory 2% raise in it EVERY year would definitely put more money into everyone's pocket... but because they have more money in their pocket, products start to cost more accordingly. But hey, everyone has a bit more to spend now. You've solved nothing, as production costs increase meaning retail costs increase to compensate and no-one is better off.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... it's about 14, jeeze. ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sometimes it's off by a few months.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'usually 15' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'towns near the idaho border in washington are booming with sales and people applying for jobs....while on the idaho side, businesses are hurting for sales, and cannot find good workers cause the min wage is 7.25 there.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not usually 15.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It depends on whether or not your birthday is in the Spring/Summer or Fall/Winter.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'usually 15 would make them already 6 at the start of K. ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's usual to turn 15 during 9th, or the summer before, or the summer after' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'and lots of places in the US, 9th is middle school' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: '3 years of HS' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh yeah, I forgot about your wonky HS shit, that 9th can be sophomore year in HS.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... and lots of places it's not. I don't get it. ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'no it can't be sophomore year in hs, yuna, that would mean first year was 8th.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'In Sweden, we have 9 years of elementary school and 3 years of High School (or our own equivalent of it)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'disregard Cuthbert (as Cuthbert obviously believes in the use of blatant lies-through-exaggeration)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'yeah never seen first year 8th, but lots of first year 10th' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'however, it's quite common to have jr high 7-9 and high school 10-12, or variations thereof.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Right Zade, don't argue the reasoning, ignore it because of the flourish.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I still say 15 is the age when kids should be expected to start working, though. That said, in Sweden, where people just make a whole lot more, kids almost never ever start working 'til after High School. Because we don't need to. This hasn't made us all lazy mooches or anything and score higher than U.S. students in general.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Very worldly of you.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it's also quite common for kids to look for a summer job, or at least it was where I grew up. ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Saint Cuthbert is agreeing with that Dispel Majic person again... T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, summer jobs. I'm not talking about summer jobs. Those are a whole different ball of wax.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Cuthbert, that "inflation" example is grossly flawed logic typical of greedy callous republicans' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I believe we even have a different set of laws regarding summer job wages (for kids) in Sweden.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yuna, at least where I grew up, it was pretty common as well for kids to work 5-10 hours a week while in high school (we're not talking fulltime jobs here)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now, now, let's not make assumptions. He could also be a Libertarian.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'having two wages is a bad idea.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a fair number of them would do a few afternoon shifts at the pizza place or something' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '5-10 hours a week? Doing what?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Amazing since I'm not even an American then, Zade. Also, Michael Moore, fervent enemy of those "greedy callous republicans" was the king of exaggerating an argument in order to make a point.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, seriously, what kind of job needs someone for 5-10 hours a week?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'waitressing?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'He was proud of his methods.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Or is this a week-end job?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'yeah 5-10 seems not even worth the time' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'some of them worked tables at the nursing home, they'd do tuesday and friday afternoons or something' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And that'd make them, what, 50 bucks a week? Seems hardly worth the hassle.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'the kind of jobs that you can explain to someone in 15 minutes but need a warm body to show up and do' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'shrugs, it was worth it to them, clearly' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I worked in HS, but more like 20 hours a week' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'So you'll have to remind me how only "greedy callous americans" use the same logical thinking of someone, then exaggerates it to show how ridiculous that same reasoning actually is.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(lmgtfy.com is a horrid website) ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What I mean is that with higher minimum wage laws, I'm pretty sure their parents would be able to just gift them that money instead of having them spend 5-10 hours a week not studying (even if they wouldn't necessarily have spent those 5-10 hours a week studying).' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I created my own businesses in high school....the only way to make real money.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'You change the story, but the plot is the same, and the plot is weak.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Remember, they had to get to and from their jobs, so that's a lot of extra time they're spending on getting paid or studying as well.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'lmgtfy is a great website to use for people who are too fucking lazy to google search something obvious and instead expect everyone else to find the information for them :p' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yuna, getting to/from was usually about ten minutes tops. we're talking small-town here.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'OIC.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Still, 5 hours a week? 10 I can see being maybe worth it. 5? Please.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'well, if only all of america lived in small towns' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I see more 'why not?'' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'USameruicans are the "good guys" compared to other foreigners, in that greedy foreigners are far worse and more callous than Americans' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'obviously, the less you work, the less you make, the more time you have for other stuff, it depends what you want' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but I wouldn't just gift my kid money for expensive sneakers/expensive phone/whatever if i had one, if they were of working age.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Kids shouldn't work during school, period. Its a distraction, and for kids to do good, they don't need it. Yes, its possible for kids to work and still excel, but its much less common.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and that's usually what the kids were working for.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'd much rather pay the money and make the kids do well in school.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '5 hours a week won't be able to afford you expensive sneakers, phones or whatever.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Depends on the kid, really. If someone doesn't HAVE to have a summer job at 16, they should probably prioritize with school... but not everyone is fortunate enough to have the home life that'll let that happen.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'CHEAP sneakers, phones or whatevers, maybe.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'does when you save up for a few weeks.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'unless you're buying sneakers every week' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic nods at Saint Cuthbert. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I said during school' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, if my kid's getting straight A's, I'll gift him a hundred a week, maybe more if that keeps him from spending time having to wait tables and taking time off studying to keep up those grades.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its summer? get your ass to work' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '5/week at $5/hour, that's $25/week, takes you a few months to save maybe.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You'd have to pay up for several weeks and never do anything but buy shoes and phones.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... a hundred a week? jesus christ, are you adopting? i promise I'm getting straight A's :D' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so if you are a foreigner speaking like a greedy callous Republican, then to admit you are not an American is not self-praise but something far worse' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I'm guessing kids who work part-time use their money for stuff like candy, eating out, going out on dates, concerts, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And for that, you need more than 5 hours a week.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it depends on how much you're spending and on what ... you seem to be used to a somewhat more lavish lifestyle than I am :p' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Sorry Zade, I stopped paying attention to your side of this conversation awhile ago. What're you on about?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You get straight A's in HS? You get 100 bucks a week from me. I won't buy you anything else but food, but I'll GLADLY give you 100 bucks.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'most of the parents definitely didn't have a hundred bucks a week to toss at their kids :p' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'd pay a kid $100 a week to focus on schoolwork. But that's because I'm smart and focused on schoolwork and because of that now have a good paying job that would enable me to pay children money for doing the same.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Please, my most expensive pair of shoes are my pair of Converse. I bought them last year. On sale, for what in the U.S. would equal around 50-60 bucks. Before that, my most expensive pair of shoes cost 20 bucks, tops.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Man, I had a classmate who got a Lincoln as a grad present... I got a Gamecube.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dispel Majic looks at Saint Cuthbert and goes "Heh." T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and yet Cuthbert replied to the criticism with an inane screed' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Yeah man, I don't know how I will ever live with the shame of... whatever you're on about.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Also, I'm not saying most parents should through their kids 100 bucks a week.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'k, if its a personal value I can see that.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '10? 15? 20? They should be able to afford that. At least put it into a "Expensive shit you can buy your kids sometime" fund to buy them semi-expensive shoes, phones or whatever instead of having them work a measly 5-10 hour a week.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... would you feel better if they worked more? :p' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I won't be buying my kids a new pair of Converse every two months or a new smart-phone every year. I'm not stupid. But spending or giving them 100 a week if they can keep up straight A's? Small sacrifice in my opinion.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I really don't see anything wrong with a teenager having some afternoon shifts at the pizza place or whatever.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: '"some afternoon shifts" anywhere aren't going to produce any longterm career and thus lifetime comfort benefit for the child' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'More like it seems hardly worth the trouble. Either work a lot of don't work. Having them work a menial job for, the equivalent of 2 hours a work day seems hardly worth the trouble or taking away time they could study, keep in shape or do other stuff that makes them happy. Not if I can afford to give them the money instead.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'longterm career? no. gets them in the habit of working for what you get and working for someone who isn't mom.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yeah Majic, there is a chance that a robbery at the pizza turns the child worker into a crime statistic' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: '... is that a serious argument?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'oh no, it's xyliz, nevermind' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Also, keep in mind that 100 bucks gets you less in Sweden than in the U.S., which is why I said my Converse cost the equivalent of 50-60 USD. For example, 1 litre (0.264 gallons) of milk costs approximately $1.8. 1 loaf of bread (large) costs approximately $3-4.).' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'inspired Colin Wilson to write a few sicko books' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yuna, that also makes more sense :P' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I can't remember the last time I paid only $60 for shoes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What kind of shoes do you use?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Heck, in Sweden, we have a shoe chain whose big thing is "Buy 3, get 2 of them for free!". And they average (actual price) $30-40.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'let me see if I can find them online for you' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'yeah, I buy shoes at the discount outlets' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And this is Sweden we're talking about. 25% of that is taxes (the store pays) alone.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'One word, two syllables... Payless. For when you don't feel like paying an extra $100 just so your shoes have a different word on them.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'funny cuth, that's where i went :D' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Those Converse, by the way, were my very first pair of shoes of a "big brand". Not counting knock-offs bought in Vietnam when I didn't even know Fred Perry was a thing. They just looked nice.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'I do all the time. My sneakers aren't Converse, they're Airwalk, but I mean... they're $40, I'll survive.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'They look exactly the same, and last me long enough to justify that money.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I buy a new pair of shoes approximately once a year, not counting possible seasonal shoes (sandals for the summer, boots for the winter, sneakers for the other two seasons and the in-betweens). I average 2 pairs a year. And I spend less than 100 bucks a year.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'heh. i think my average cost for shoes is about $25/year (not counting this year because I was job hunting and actually bought nicer shoes)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Saw what must've been the most ridiculously priced pair of slippers a month ago when I was helping a friend shoe-shopping (he makes a lot of money, so we were checking the expensive stores as well). A mid-expensive store had shoes averaging $200-300. And they were selling a pair of slippers which looked nothing out of the ordinary for $220. WHAT?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'the price of a label :(' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It wasn't even a famous label/brand!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(as far as I know)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'it's kind of hard to find my shoes online. apparently they don't make the model anymore, but this is the newer model http://www.zappos.com/vivobarefoot-aqua-lite' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'I wish that off-brand shoes really did just slightly alter their names to appear like, but not infringe on, the names of the shoes they're copying. I want to say "Nike? No way man, this is a Nerkie."' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You pay in excess of $60 for THAT?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'reminds me of the guy in some dave barry (i think?) book who got in trouble for selling Rolox watches and Clorex detergent.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'indeed' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Like store-brand cereals like "Frooty-Loops" or "Toasty O's"' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'actually mine look like this http://tinyurl.com/d23edqk' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Someone should trademark Victoria shoes. (Victoria is the Roman equivalent of Nike)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Sorry man, I make it a policy never to open tinyurls from people who refer to themselves as "The Jerk"' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'that's your problem not mine' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's loading forever for me.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'I wouldn't call it a problem so much as an observation.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Though... the curiosity does gnaw.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And it required a rload.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I also have a pair of vibrams' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'you can sneak peak the tinyurls :P' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Dafuq? The link is not working for me.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'maybe you typed it wrong' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Now it's working. Still, $60+ for THAT?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'For, what, suede sneakers?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'not exactly' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'BING* AVAST HAS DETECTED A TROJAN.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'a trojan on amazon, huh' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'good luck with your avast' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'I wouldn't know man, I didn't open the link.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'DAfuq?! 115 bucks?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Remember? We went over this, gosh.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Just noticed the price on the 1st pair you linked me to.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That is some insane pricing, IMO. I think I'll go into shoes. Create my Victoria brand shoes with a big O-mark.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Yuna: I suppose it's a matter of perspective.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And sell shoes that are knock-offs (in design) of Nike, only at 75% the price.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I believe that 115 bucks for what amounts to a pair of suede (thin suede) sneakers is just prestige pricing.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'I don't begrudge people who buy expensive shoes, I blow my money on all kinds of stupid shit... shoes just isn't one of them. Now people who shop at Guess? What's up with that?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Yuna: it's more a matter of them not being available at a lesser price' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'there is a difference in some shoes though. i would easily pay 120 for a nice pair of doc's' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Saint Cuthbert: 'Shopping there is just like saying, "Fuck it. I don't feel like making rent this month"' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'and I'm not about to start making my own shoes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'What I meant was that there are surely some shoes that are of the equivalent look and comfort that cost much less.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'not really' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I usually pay $200 for a pair of shoes. Good shoes for weird feet cost a lot.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Prestige pricing means you artifically bloat the price of an item because you know people will buy it anyway. Anything past $60-70 is basically just prestige pricing when it comes to shoes, IMO.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'If you have weird feet, then that's a whole other ball of wax.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'it's pricing because the product is rather unique in the market of shoes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Yeah, whatever. I'll just wear my $70 bucks Converse, $25 bucks boots and $6 bucks (bought in Vietnam) sandals (Winter / Spring-summer / Fall).' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'but you won't be able to understand how different a shoe with a 2-3mm sole is unless you wear one' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'And spent the extra $14 on eating out.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Why would I want a 2-3 mm sole? Isn't that just asking for it to rip?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'because it's great. and no.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I spend way more than that on eating out anyway' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'depending on material it wont' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what show has a 2-3 mm sole' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Pretty sure there's no such thing as a 2-3 MILLImeter sole that does not rip from simple wear and tear after, like, 2 days.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless that sole is made of diamond or something.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Yuna: you're wrong' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'kevlar and some other polymers ...' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'also diamond is very brittle' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'would be pretty durable' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, the Vivabarefoot shoes' soles allow for infinitely more sensory feedback. And we'd need this from our shoes why?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'brittle?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'because we don't hate our feet' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Elchanan: http://www.zappos.com/vivobarefoot-aqua-lite outsole thickness 3mm, weight 9oz' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'to feel like you arent wearing them' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'well, a lot of my friends who wear them really love the barefoot shoes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i know the shoes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'That sole looks a lot thicker than 2-3 mms.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I would enjoy them, I go barefoot every chance I get, I just can't spend money like that right now.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Unless the white part isn't actually all-sole on the inside.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'there's a removable insole' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'which I remove' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Personally, I DON'T want infinitely more sensory output from my shoes. Because sometimes I walk on unsmooth surfaces.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'so do I. it's great.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Well, whatever. Wear your $115 magic shoes. I just don't feel like spending that much on shoes.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'never really worn them but dont know why i would' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I got a pair for my girlfriend as well.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'she loves them' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would rather walk on sand all day.....at the US or British Virgin Islands.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'chucks basically feel barefoot already, i put insoles in mine X)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'maybe for aqua sports' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'straeldryn: no' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its not the shoes but the socks that are expensive, especially the good ones' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish sits down and thinks deeply. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'good toe socks here cost me like 20 bucks a pair' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'i can feel every little rock or piece of debris right through chucks without the insoles' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Archimedes Eureka nods at The River Styx. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i have dc's, fallens, ipaths, lakai ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Straeldryn: I had a pair when I was a kid. No you can't.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can step on a dime and feel it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'i definitely can, those are the shoes i've worn for years' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'it's just not the same' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'i'm not saying they're like the five fingers or whatever, just too thin for my taste already' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'that's unfortunate taste' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'By the way, show of hands, who here has NEVER spent more than 40 bucks on a shirt (not t-shirt)?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(Dress shirt/collared shirt)' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Ive spent way more' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: '200 bucks for my nicest shirt' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I haven't. Well, in actual USD, I guess it'd be 55. But I'm "converting" the prices due to it being Sweden and taxes. 200 bucks?!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'all my dress shirts are like 60 ish and those are realatively inexpensive' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Holy Svengali, I automatically put a shirt down if it's even 100 bucks.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Don't you guys have Dressman?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'have what?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'It's a men's clothing store chain. Maybe it's Sweden-only. Let me research it.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'never heard of it' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Oh, it's a Nordic Countries only chain.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'one of my coworkers is from sweden. I'll ask him when he gets back from france in a few weeks' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'if I remember' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'just tip a poor single mom-waitress $100, good karma' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'They have their own brand of shirts and pants and whatnot (Dressman) and they sell silk shirts for $60, at the MOST expensive range.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'your clothes look stupid anyway' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'm sure we have something similar somewhere' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I find them comfortable and nice-looking. I mean, it's a just a silk shirt. Straight, possibly slim-fitting. I wear most of my shirts under a vest or blazer, anyway.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Ouh, spoke too soon. Apparently they have some fancy schmancy shirts for 75 bucks!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I had a few silk shirts once. They're not very comfortable.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I only have the one silk shirt. Just used them as an example because they're generally more expensive than non-silk ones, at least in Sweden.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'fiendish is prob Vanilla Ice' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'depends on the silk' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'it really doesn't depend on the silk. it depends more on the cut of the garment, and whether you're a man or a woman' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'those silk hawaiian type shrts are amazing especially whne its like 90 deg out' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I don't think you actually mean silk' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Is there different types of silk?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'also nobody should ever wear "hawaiian type" shirts. fashion nightmare.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: '(I meant besides you mixed-fabric types of fabrics). Isn't it just "Silk. Just silk"?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'no. ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I'm not even sure what you just said.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'there are different types of silk too' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'meh its its 90 deg and your in the tropics' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'on a beach' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'or if your in hawaii' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I've been in hawaii. It's still not a good look.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in that case its not bound to be above 80' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so have I and youll fit right in with those shitrs' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I did not know there were different types of silk. I thought you just mixed it with different fibres and what not to get different thicknesses and textures and whatnot.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Not that there are actual different types of silk.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Ace Ventura just isn't an attractive look.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'http://info.fabrics.net/fabric-facts/glossary-of-silk-fabric-and-weaves/' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea different weaves' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Those are different weaves. I knew THAT.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'they will all feel different' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently you can get silk from different types of silk worm, which I assume means the silk will feel different no matter how you mix them.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea that too' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'probably not that different' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'THAT's what I meant with different types of silk. Not just weaving them differently.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'weave makes large differences, though' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Archimedes Eureka: 'alot is how the raw silk is processed too' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'as it turns out, though, clothing is made from silk fabric and not strands of silk from a spider's ass' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'so the qualitative differences of the composition are important' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I like silk shirts, though. The non-silk ones (it's late and I've forgotten what the most common fabric type, I believe it's artifical?) usually chafe my nipples.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'cotton?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'No, not cotton. I believe those are fine. I think I'm thinking of polyester.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Aren't polyester shirts the kind that most often chafe?' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tsk, Yuna said nipples' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i like polyester clothes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Apparently, cotton chafes, synthetic fabrics do not (generally).' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'So I hate cotton shirts then.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish smirks. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Leisure-Suit Larry recommends polyester clothes' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Archimedes Eureka groans loudly. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'leisure suit larry, i played that, how old are we?:p' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I played that at age 12. I'm 27.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i got all my hair, unlike Leisure-Suit Larry' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'i played that at 12 too i'm not 35' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'now' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the bald-spot hair-loss indicates that Leisure-Suit Larry was a fraud' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'The Hell. "King of the Nerds". I think I might have to check that out.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those that are horny and don't get any, often go bald' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'I love how baldness is linked to the specific type of testosterone that causes body hair. If you have a lot of body hair, chances are you'll go bald. If you don't chances are you won't. I don't like body hair, I'm practically hairless besides on my head and in certain places (I'm talking pubic region and legs) and I'll get to keep all of my hair (especially since my dad and my mom's granddads all got to keep theirs). Yay!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'my bro gets laid way more than me, and he's much more bald' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'your dad's hair is unrelated' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Wikipedia seems to disagree with you.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and there at least 8 Leisure-suit Larry adventures -- i played only one LLS adventure (the 7th) purchased from a discount bin, and refused to play any others, since i dislike horrid-looking bald-spot frauds' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'yea that bro i'm talkin about is hairy as shit, body-wise' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Straeldryn: 'fair enough, i stand corrected' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'There are different types of baldness, though. Some are caused by some things, others by other things. The genetic lottery has given me slim chances of baldness.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if somebody is going to be a sex-stud, keeping all the hair is important for credibility and eyecandy effect ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the LLS authors lost sales by balding Larry' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'altho i thought there were some girls that dig the baldies' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those girls are going for the male rejects that can't get any (as indicaed by the baldness) -- which does not say much for those lowered-standard (likely also defective) girls ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'might as well shave your head if you mostly bald anyways' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'or they could just have a weirdass fetish' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Like the dudes who want to be sat on by fat women.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'na bald with ponytail rocks!' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that overweight actor with a pony-tail is disgusting - stars in mediocre martial arts movies' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'You mean Stephen Segal? "Mediocre" is being too kind.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Krache giggles. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Some people love him though' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what about chuck norris ' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'yep, overweight flabby Stephen Segal - an eyesore' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Summoner Yuna: 'Those people are nuts.' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Dont get started on the Chuck Norris debate...' T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Elchanan kicks Krache in the head. T3/r7/2013-02-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Chia Pet Wars tickles Chuck Norris. T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in honor of valenties day lets have a debate ' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'question: what is the most effective style of fighting' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Modi: 'between lovers?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i was thinking more along the lines of hand to hand combat but sure' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'skynet' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'I dont nessasarily think there is a best style.... i like wing chun but its obvious from mma that using just one style alone will not have the best results' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'wing chun is actually a boxing style so it is less specialized.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'as opposedt to shaolin' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so, Obama does look like being a bit of a liar when a third state now looks to introduce his minion's gun ban including confiscation' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos peers intently at Tigernuts. T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Missouri's thinking about creating a new state holiday on Nov 21 called Stan Musial Day.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Missouri seems to have been infiltrated by idiots' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who'd get the nomination for president elect out of Rahm Emanuel and Hilary Clinton?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'are you kidding me? With all the success the Chicago machine's had for the last 8 years, Rahm's a total shoe-in.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'natural successor to barack, keep it in the mafia family' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so we extend it a bit, then. The US is a nation of idiots.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'shoo-in :D' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not due to infiltration, you understand :)' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i don't know the makeup of Missouri's governance, is the ban likely to pass?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what ban?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I was talking about the choice of candidates.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gun ban' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'don't think Missouri's talking gun ban.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banning semi-autos, pump actions, and clip sizes above 7. enforced hand in i.e confiscation' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'a lot of stupid bills get put forward' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'been passed in NYC and california' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no matter how stupid' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'neither state is on anyone's favorites lists anymore.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'having the highest tax rates in the nation doesn't help them any, either.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hence the question, i thought missouri had more sense' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess the only thing they can do is try and get such laws nullified' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'We voted to raise our own sales tax go Cali' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you know why, right?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'largely the same reason Obama got in nationally' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'poor people vote for tax rises' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'eh, I wish I wasn't too lazy to look that one up, if true probably some really interesting papers on that.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course it's true' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'nah, we're not going to pass any law that bans >7-round mags. Such a move effectively bans ALL guns, period.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'I was talking more along the lines of peer reviewed papers.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"we"?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Missouri.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, you're missourian then?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as Vosh would say... goooooood' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'outside of the metro areas of Kansas City and St. Louis, the entire state is republican.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more importantly, are they patriot?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't really care which globalist front they voted for' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but we're kinda "weird" republican, since we tend to vote blue for local/state office.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well since the republicans stopped being republican a long time ago, i guess i can understand that' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the show me state? Trench coats are big sellers in missouri.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, we've been doing this since at least WW2 if not way before.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative, or socially conservative, fiscally liberal?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither party supports ending foreign wars and small government, support of the constitution' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'therein lies the problem' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'we'll vote for all sorts of taxes, but you can't have them unless you cut spending somewhere else. We make sure to balance our budget, and damn the consequences.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Clinton balanced the budget and left a surplus at the Treasury. Bush used it to finance his wars.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am betting another Clinton would do the same thing.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'too bad the word "Clinton" means "slut" in American now. Nobody's going to trust a Clinton anymore.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right, the rather trust a bush.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'debate clinton was what, 92 - 2000?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'technically 93 to 2001' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he only ran a surplus in 2 of those years' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and set the ball rolling on the mortgage calamity' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if not for his foreign wars and police state rollout, Bush 2 would have been in much the same place, economically' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, boy, that was really crappy. Only 2 years of a surplus. We who are used to constant surplus.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's the point, Tigernuts. He wanted those wars, they were not imposed on him.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't know that' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no country attacked the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope, should have been impeached on the spot' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the only nation attacking countries was the US' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, "because Bush started it" is not justification for Obama solidifying, normalising the practice, and making it worse' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, Bush gets forgiven, or at least, looked upon with a benevolent eye. Obama, who had to deal with the crap he left behind is the villain.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't look upon anyone with a benevolent eye' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'it is possible to consider both villains :p' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but your memory gets foggy' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both are villains, indeed' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'but one of them currently has power' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you cannot claim Obama is trying to clear up crap when he clearly is doing the opposite' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'All those budgets were pretty red if you use GAAP and not funny gov't cash flow joke accounting.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we will not recover from the Bush damage for another 16 to 20 years, so you are going to have to blame a lot of presidents.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not interested in budget deficits, i'm talking about damage done to the constitution' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Personally I blame Lincoln.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm talking NDAA, CISPA, TSA, Foreign wars' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the TSA rules.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Federal overeach over the states' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the only president you should be blaming is FDR. He, in fact, started it.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so start at the beginning (or the modern beginning), Reagan.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the biggest problem is NAFTA' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to hold people to account for their actions, i do so based on their promises' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'FDR's damage could have been corrected. Reagan started an era of destruction.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama promised to close gitmo. He didn't' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama promised an end to foreign wars. He didn't' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama promised he wouldn't take the guns, he is' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Gitmo is an abomination, but any president who closes Gitmo will be destroyed. The people actually believes the bogy man exists. ' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he swore an oath to uphold the constitution, he's breaching it every time he opens his mouth, almost' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so no, i won't give him a benevolent eye, any more than i give David Cameron a benevolent eye' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'again, every president (any one who works for the government) takes that oath.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and neither should anyone else, you should hold their feet to the fire. It's by not doing so that they get away with this shit' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they don't get away from anything. The people vote for them. You reap what you sow.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you're to blame!' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'after 200 years of being lied to, the people still acts as if they believe the promises. So it is on their head.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go get america back, please, i want somewhere with liberty and space to emigrate to' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take it away from those spacktards like you'd take away something from a child that they're not supposed to be playing with' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you ought to wake up' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't the fact that i'm constantly upset about this suggest that I -am- awake?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you're British, so no not really.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'typical British people are whinging about horsemeat mislabeled as beef' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'The US always rails against the oppressive governments elsewhere. One can readily admit that the US is not as repressive as some countries. But that is the only actual different between the governments.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'do i look like i give a monkeys?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, it doesn't Anaristos' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US always rails against countries that is seeking to undermine for geopolitical gain' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'really? What are the other differences? Oh, let's ignore the "we will take what we want from anyone who has it" policy. Aside from that.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it regularly -sides- with oppressive governments' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it always amuses me to see unamericans get so worked up over something that barely ever affects them.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it affects everyone, Hans' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wooo, another 10 years, and PAN AM will be back! 4 major airlines now!' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I always wanted a PanAm bag :)' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pan am rules' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the shit you guys are planning, we often get used as labrats. Every time you guys decide you want to invade a random country, we get dragged in. When you guys fuck up the world economy, our economy suffers' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bring back the sexy flight attendants who make lots of money.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the PanAm uniforms were cool :)' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it doesn't affect everyone, Tiger. Nobody here really cares that Hong Kong's poor are renting out kennel cages to live in. They'll put on a show about how awful it is, but they don't really care.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pan am had a monopoly, but it was also profitable, and the experience of flying was enjoyable.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, just make sure you keep your screwups to yourself this time' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my country is already hurtling down the side of the abyss, we don't need someone pushing, or landing from above' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'airlines had a monopoly until Reagan. They were regulated. Granted that made ticket prices a bit higher than they should be, but from what I see passengers were better off then.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ticket prices are still to high considering you get nothing now. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'frankly I would rather get to where I'm going at a rate I can afford than pay a bit more for luxury' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$5 small cups of alcohol that used to be in the ticket price, or pillows, larger seats, more comfortable seats.....experienced pilots, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is fine, we can have a STEERAGE class in the back for people who want to stand up without a chair.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and more safety (with the exception of American)' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'sounds fine to me.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you forget, Majic, that since all airlines charged the same for a flight from point A to point B, tickets were good on any airline.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no need to book 2 years in advance for a seat on the edge of a wing.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I have never needed to do that. I've gotten reasonable seats.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you wanted to save money, you simply flew red-eye' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Rizgoth is rich and, like, owns land and stuff. He has to fly to more places than the rest of us.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you say "reasonable", makes me think that you didn't fly under the old system.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the old system wouldn't charge you for carrying your luggage.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'And if I don't have luggage I can save money on the new system by not checking any at all.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you consider yourself the typical flier.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'No? People fly for lots of different reasons.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'typical flyers carry luggage.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'm just saying that personally I prefer to save money, rather than pay for amenities that I don't use.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and I prefer to not be nickel and dimed when I travel.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'we are not talking about amenities here. By charging a fixed price the airlines were prohibited from taking passengers for a "ride".' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I'd prefer to be nickel and dimed than dollar and five dollared.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'personally, I feel threatened by an airline who sell cheap seats. They have to make profit somewhere. The most expensive part of an airline's operation (other than fuel, currently) is in the hangar.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I would think the unions would be more problematic than parts.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in time, the airlines will charge by the lb, including baggage....' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nods, they usually make up their money selling grotesquely overpriced food and whatnot from what I can see' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the old system gave you free food. Granted, I wouldn't give airline food to prisoners on death row. But deregulation hasn't improved the menu or the cooks.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'right. I bring my own food in my purse. I bring an empty water bottle through security and fill it afterwards. I'm happy to not pay for terrible food.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not just free food, you also received free drinks, snacks, blankets, ear phones, etc' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they are not going to allow you to bring your own food on the plane.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'yes they do' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'still do last time I flew.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I do it all the time' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, I said they are not going to, not that they dont.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'and I flew on the most penny-pinching of the budget airlines because I really don't have the money to piss away.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in time, they wont let you, like movie theatres' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'movie theaters still let you bring in your own as well. Admittedly, even if they have a problematic policy you can still sneak it in quite easily..' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'their reasoning will be, if they stop allowing you to bring stuff on the plane, you will be less likely to use the plane bathroom which costs money.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'most of the ones I've been to haven't, hans' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but now that American and US Air are merging, expect prices to start creeping up again, like when United and Continental merged.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'your locals must be more scared of shooters than my locals are, Majic.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am afraid of AA :)' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'except you wont be getting all nice luxuries like you used to....just higher prices.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'huh, hans!' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'wtf does food have to do with shooters :P' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you actually get luxiries on flights now? I find your definition of "luxury" strange.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'when shooters shoot, people wig out and install metal detectors and security checkpoints to rifle through your stuff.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'oh, I'm not saying you can't smuggle food in, but they do have signs saying not to bring it in.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, like you USED to, ie before the airlines decided to penny pinch and stop including it in the ticket price.....ie back when they were actually making a profit.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Cui Bono?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most airlines have not made much in profits the last 15 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'who has profitted from the "shooters"?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'TWA went profitless longer than that.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'when they were regulated, the airlines could afford to not make a profit.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There only really needs to be 2 national airlines.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the first thing that happened after deregulation is that a lot of airlines went out of business.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, another AMTRAK :)' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'amtrak doesnt work because the govt controls it, but doesnt fund it like it should be.....like the postal service.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that was probably more of a parts thing, Ana. Weren't the fleets all essentially about to drop out of the sky when deregulation took effect?' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lots of arcane rules that prevent it from being profitable.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'no, Hans. At least, it would not have been any worse than it is now. The consistency that regulation offered the passengers made up for the inconveniences to the airlines. Regulation made them de facto government agencies.' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'after running around the building with the general contractor and the on-duty manager, there's an outside door to a "meter room" that nobody has keys for...and nobody's got any contact info for property managers' T3/r7/2013-02-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, dunno why I went here, but mis' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK consumers and retailers continue to act like retards by throwing away perfectly good food just because it might contain horse meat' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'IN the UK, Tory MPs warn that gay couples aren't suitable parents' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how about donkeys ?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'holy donkey! I bet that was cool to see....A meteor 15 meters across flared through the skies over Russia's Chelyabinsk region early Friday, triggering an atomic bomb-sized shock wave that injured nearly a thousand people, blew out windows and caused some Russians to fear the end of the world.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'RT claims it was 6ft' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Russians were heard yelling, The Americans are attacking us!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The CTBTO, which tracks nuclear disturbances in the Earths atmosphere, reported that 11 of its 45 infrasound monitoring stations recorded low-frequency sound waves as the meteorite broke up over the Ural mountains a little before 9:30 a.m. local time on Friday.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with UK government passing laws to legalise gay marriage' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how about legalizing meteorites hitting london ?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those were always legal' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'say yes to gun ownership!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'AR 15 = American way of life' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fucknuts like Wayne L'Pierre don't help though' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ar 15's are for wimps.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Nancy Pelosi is opposing cut in congressional pay. Typical bloody elitist' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is the only income she has, cause business wont donate to her. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Russian lawmakers are claiming it wasn't a meteorite but an American weapons test that injured 1200 people today' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Maybe it was an american meteor' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: '-ite' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'an asteroid is going to cause a world nuclear war.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not a terribly reliable source, apparently' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know USA establishment has gone nuts over the last 12 years or so, but I have a hard trouble believing they'd be quite so daft' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, "A gun is not a defensive weapon"' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's true, why do cops carry them?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'to kill with them, what else?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'apparently it would be constitutional to ban cars' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'SARS like virus on rampage in the UK.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3 people infected is a rampage?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'According to your newspapers it is.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'daily mail by chance?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it attacks arabs' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Tigernuts, I am sure you are being simple by design. While cars can kill, and sometimes it used just to do so, that is not why they are built.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's that got to do with the price of fish?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, fish and chips.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if that's true, why do cops carry them?'' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahh, well there you go, the cars comment was in reference to an article i was reading about home schooling' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'cops are defenders...' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but since you're at it, the cop was talking shit, and quite obviously so' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'have you not heard of th term protect and serve' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'defence and offense are relative terms.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sometimes i wonder why people have such difficulty with the "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, I don't know. Because those who are not infringed have a tendency to put bullets in people.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not even remotely true' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have never had a chance to shoot someone.....:(' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but since you have an issue with it, campaign to have it modified' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course is not true. People are shot by sentient guns.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know, using the correct process through law' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'due process and allt hat' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'evil doers deserve to be whacked when they are trying to hurt people.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'yes, I am sure those who violate the law by killing with a gun will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I am sure the shades of the dead will be happy to know that.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is killing with a gun so much more evil than killing by any other means?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, I don't know. It's hard to kill with a knife from 50-75 meters away. Though I am sure it is possible. ' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What if an evil doer commands a bus and decides to run it into a crowd of people...but one good doer in the crowd has a gun and notices the bus coming....he whips it out and shoots into the bus killing the driver, and the bus crashes into a ditch instead?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'crossbow? car? poison, drone, prescription drugs' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I admit that assault weapons are not very accurate, but given the rate of fire, they don't have to be.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'illegal drugs, something heavy thrown' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, assault weapons are very accurate, it is the shooter that isnt accurate.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I won't say that I would have a good chance against a crowbar, but I would have a chance. I would have no chance at all against a gun.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you h ave a problem is the fact that there is poverty and inequality in your country, and that makes you fearful' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'great non sequitor' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in truth, when we banned the guns here, violent crime went u' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eup' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'up fuckit' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'murders went up' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gun crime went up' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in australia when they banned the guns, violent crime went up, gun crime went up, murders went up' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'gun ban is not the solution, gun eradication is.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and quite why, why the fuck would you ban assault weapons when less than 4% of gun deaths involved them?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and don't be naive enough to believe that the biggest pusher for 2USAmend is not the gun industry.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then go live in japan' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'great answer' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how much $ does the ammo industry pull in every year in the US' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hah, banning drugs sure does work well.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's what people like you tell me when i say i don't like living in a country with no space' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'banning alcohol sure did work well.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'banning the use is crap, we all know that. Banning production is the key.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cartels in mexico make billions from illegal drugs.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'Japan has major cultural differences compared to the US tho' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they would prefer you be stupid enough to keep them illegal.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Japan has a better safety net then the US does.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'forget about that Enchanan. The "go somewhere else" is the position taken by those who admit that there is a problem and are happy to live with it.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'people are less afraid.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the problem is the war on drugs, the war on the southern border, and the corruption and poverty in your big cities' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Japan also has tougher immigration laws compared to the US.....the US is the weakest western country when it comes to it.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you wouldn't have a problem if drugs, or guns weren't produced. In reality, the problem lies with the fact that those tasked with making sure that problem doesn't exist, profit too much from the problem.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's nonsense' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'sure, it is.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'Profit is good' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'guns and drugs will always be produced, they may evolve, but they will never go away.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's like saying there wouldn't be a problem with global warming if co2 didn't exist' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you open yourself up to conquest if you get rid of protection.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'why will they always be produced? Is it a natural law?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it is' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in japan people are mort "willing" to cooperate with govt' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, I can see your point, Rizgoth. Imagine a world without guns, how would we protect ourselves?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is called survival, the purest natural law that exists.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people will always want their escape, their medication, their amusement, or their crutch' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who are you to tell them they can't have it?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about if i banned the type of music you liked?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'obviously you don't understand survival as well as you think.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banned the food you liked' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and with thiier gun laws they have no way to fight back it things went really bad' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Lets see......back before guns, people used swords to kill eachother, and before that? Clubs ?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'guns are a natural progression of technology, People will always kill eachother for stupid reasons. You wont stop it.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I like your arguments, Tigernuts. What you say makes sense, banning means of killings is just the start of banning everything you like. If you like killing you should be able to enjoy doing it without others trying to stop you.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a means of killing' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i think we allready know swords, spears, and bows, cannot keep a modern military is check' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a means of protection' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'lol ban emotions like whatever that movie was' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course it is a means of protection. The US hypocritically wants Iran and N. Korea banned from using nuclear weapons. They don't like the idea of other being able to do to them what they can do to others.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'some people simply enjoy poping holes in paper targets' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, anaristos, that's called hypocrisy' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'So use bb guns, Elchanan. They put holes in paper targets.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'they want the bang to feel the kicks and to have options on distance' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'ok, Elchanan. Are they then content with having their toys locked away until they are in a location where they can only harm paper targets?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'some people would be...' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most wouldn't' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so, not only do they want the kick and the bang, but the theoretical possibility of using targets other than paper.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like i bet there are people in cali who have .50 bmg & "assault" rifles stored out of state' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Back in the 80s, where I grew up.....people usually kept a rifle or two in a rifle rack on the back window of their truck.....If you do it now, it ends up stolen and used hurt someone.....Some parts of humanity have de-evoled.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts is agreeing with that Rizgoth person again... T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts points excitedly at SnailBot Anaristos! T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'again, the solution is not banning but removal of production. But I guess that point is too subtle.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'haven't you got anything better planned with your life other than shitting on someone else's parade?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ive seen shotguns in truck windows here in florida' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And when I smuggle in thousands of weapons to sell to the criminals who just robbed your ass.....what then ?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'one of the plans in my life is not getting a hole put through me by one with a gun.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then don't' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they "oops, my bad" won't mean much to me.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'get a bullet proof vest' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wont protect you against cop killer, or black rhino bullets.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'obviously you haven't heard of Teflon(TM) coated bullets.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and are those legal' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they are illegal, but they are still smuggled in' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'they are manufactured, the point. Even if legal producers don't produce them, they produce the bullets. Without bullet production there would be no means to coat bullets with Teflon.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea well lawenforcement uses those rounds' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what are you going to do when your home gets invaded?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'grab the 12 gauge! ' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't, he's banned them all' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I can manufacture my own bullets, I dont need to buy them from anyone.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods at Rizgoth. T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I also know people who can make guns.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can 3d print many gun parts now' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'your rounds probably wont be as good as the production bullets now' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but yea lead is easy to pour' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, if my home gets invaded by sufficient force there is very little I can do. But there is a chance I may survive against a force not using a manufactured gun. There will be no chance against a force using a manufactored gun. Your argument is spacious, anyway. You think that having a gun protects you against invasion, without accepting the fact that without guns home invasions are less likely.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rifk' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's bollocks' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What will happen is.....cartels will start producing guns and ammo to sell in the countries where they are banned....it would surprise me if it wasnt happenin right now in the UK, or other countries.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after gun bans in australia, home invasions rocketed' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ditto UK' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, if you had a multi shot shotgun, you could easily protecr yourself in your house.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'of course, all you need for arms manufacture is a magic wand.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'umm if your worried about getting you home invaded you sould have a safe room in your house with a nice steel door' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ban homes, elchana, and the ability to build them' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and of course, home invaders, being preternaturally stupid won't bring their own multi-shot shotguns, AK-47, or uzzies.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, ban cars also...they use gasoline which can be used to make bombs.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here's the best thing you can do, anaristos, go live in a state or country that bans guns' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stop telling everyone else what they can or can't lawfully do' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you won't get an argument about that from me.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'isn't cars good then? They use up gas that would be used for bombs otherwise :P' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'move to Chicago...you have a higher chance of being murdered there than here.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, right, the law, the magic wand that by its very existence protect us. Because I know, as well as you, that any one who shoots and kills me is going to jail. I can rest in peace.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most murders go unsolved.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I know that.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you actually cared about gun violence, you'd be calling for an end to the war on drugs, you'd call for something to do about poverty and inequity, you'd be calling for something to be done about ghettos, you'd be calling for an end to the mass prescription of SSRId's and instead a massive increase to mental health treatment' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'instead you're waving around an idea that somehow you can instantly get rid of all guns -ON THE WHOLE PLANET- and all possibility of anyone ever being able to produce one' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you are saying that if I am poor and abused I should go on a killing spree.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'drug related violence is the cause of most gun deaths.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'listen to Rizgoth, Anaristos' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'moving to a safe room while shooting there is a good chance that the home invader will not be accurately shooting back' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you take your very high gun murder rate, take out the suicides, the justifiable homicides, the gang related gun deaths, the mexico border related gun deaths, you're left with very few, no more than european countries' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I've heard all the arguments and I've thought about them. You want to miss the obvious point. Someone out there is making a profit from the killings, intentional and otherwise. You wave your idealism ( as displayed by your love for 2USAmend) and forget the reality of the collateral damage that it causes.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people make money selling guns, people also make money making drones' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people make money pimping young girls' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you think that any life loss by accident or by other means is worth your right to bear arms. Until you get shot.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not relevent' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which country are you in ana ?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am on planet Earth' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mars' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all western countries deal in weapons.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all western governments deal in weapons, paint the right bird.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Some more then others, but they all do it.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'people selling guns are not doing so with the intention that a human is going to be illegally killed with that gun!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that's a great comfort to the killed, Enchanan.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'again, you think that the collateral damage is acceptable as long as you are not part of the statistic.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'bad shit happens man' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'right' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'legalize marijuana......I bet 20% of drug related deaths go away.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if some one shoots my ass while im walking down the street so be it' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'probably more.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'collateral damage is a part of life, you can mitigate it, minimise it, but you could never remove it' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you are such a hero for the rights of gun toters, Elchanan. You should apply for poster boy.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you stamp it out in one area, you cause it in another' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea and i only have 1 :P' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've been suggesting entirely valid ways to greatly reduce gun deaths with actual things that need fixing' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not just being a cunt and stomping down on the rights of everyone' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If you really wanted to change gun laws.....why not get the rest of your tree huggers to join the NRA, take it over, and vote to put more restrictions on guns ?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'move to california or NYC' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'breaking up gangs would go a long way' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all you need to cause a gun death is a few newtons of pressure on a trigger.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or Chicago, they're banned there' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i lived in nyc for a bit... my first day there there was a shooting a few blocks away' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i live in the most violent country in Western Europe, Elchanan' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'probably 1 shooting a week or more in the area i lived... 81st precinct' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Banning guns is the wrong answer, not until we finally spend the money to find out why people murder others for $10.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I can answer it though, and the feds know it well.....it is called FEAR.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i still don't understand why no-one won't point out that the last 4 mass shooters were all hopped up on SSRi's' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You are all afraid, and as long as you are....you will always ask to control things instead of getting rid of the fear.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I believe you, Rizgoth. Everyone should carry a weapon. We know how sensible we are so the idea that someone losing their temper and putting a hole in the source, would be basically unthinkable.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Why do people go crazy and shoot up a load of people?" "Because they have a gun". I mean, WTF, logic failure!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps you should be asking "Why do people go crazy"' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'btw if you dont know 81 precinct was found to be corrupt not too long ago' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a lot of people are quite sensible.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and how does one lose the fear of being shot by someone with a gun, Rizgoth? I think that you should publish the book and sell the movie rights.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but of course, if you stopped people going crazy, that still wouldn't affect 99.5% of gun deaths' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'manipulating crimes statistics and more' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but there are a few out there who are not, and they cause most of the problems.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '"a lot" is not a sufficient number. All it takes one of those not counted in "a lot".' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I think Anaristos has been watching too much MSNBC and CNN' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'watch your insults, Tigernuts.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'stay away from cops anaristos ... they dont care who they hit in the cross fire' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'that is true, Elchanan. That is also true of anyone holding a gun.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too close to the truth, Anaristos? You're repeating all of their debased agenda-steering talking points' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I don't know what CNN or MSNBC say. I don't need anyone doing my thinking for me.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You have a better chance of surviving an evil doer with a trained gun user around.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'bullshit law abiding citizens using their gun in self defence dont hit people often ' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I bed to differ, Anaristos' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'beg' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I have an even better chance of surviving if there are no shots fired.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'then move to bumnuck Kansas and don't leave your house' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh goodie :) The "go somewhere else" answer.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'where im at now i hear shots fired almost every day' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'has toned down a lil bit now that hunting season is over' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no hunting allowed on my land, except by me.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and you don't care. I admire you, Elchanan. As I said, you should become a poster boy for those who endorse the idea of being collateral damage. "We are willing to die accidentally so that others can exercise the right to bear arms". Great epitaph. ' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because of Anaristos, every has to be defenceless and at risk of robbery, murder or worse' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but still just the other day my neighbor was out poping off a few shots with his (grandchildren mostlikely)... and look no holes in me' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'hey, it's all the luck of the draw (please, pardon the pun). I am sure that it is comforting to know that the overwhelming majority of the times gun shooters won't kill you.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ooh! i know where there's a lovely warm country where guns are banned that Anaristos could go!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unlike criminals, law abiding armed citizens do not just shoot people for no reason.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Mexico!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'do you have any idea why shooting guns off during the holidays is banned?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'its not!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at the end of the day there is one person and one person ONLY responsible for YOUR safety, and that is YOU' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'because what goes up must come down' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'smart guns are around the corner though, but it will take dozens of years if not more to get rid of the dumb ones.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'correct, Styx.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'there is no law about fireing guns on holidays ' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I know of at least one incident where the "up down" resulted in a death, far way from the shooter. I bet the shooter neve will know that he/she killed.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'perhapse about not firing up into the air' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'They are right tho, the same laws apply year round' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most cities ban the firing of guns into the air within city limits.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'my apologies for the imprecise question, Elchanan' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, you know what you need to do, you need a 2/3 majority of both houses to pass an ammendment to the constitution, which then needs ratifying in all states by a 2/3 majority' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea and at the camp i went to some one got hit by a 22 from the shooting range... because the dumb kid could not follow directions and shot at a bird which happened to be above the sand wall' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so "oops my bad"' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its true, stupidity and insanity kill people. Guns don't.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'thats what they say about car accidents' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'when people dont follow directions and tail gate ' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, I don't know. Getting hit by a car is bad, I've had the experience. Yet, I am still alive.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or don't follow appropriate safety' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'no, we should ban cars because if you dont use them right, people die' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'was not a lethal injury fyi the 22' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Um' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'lots of people get shot, its bad, most of them live Ana' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'oh, good, I bet the shot person was happy about that. I would say that had it been otherwise he wouldn't have felt about it at all.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'just like most live in car accidents, but not always' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'damnit! we need more lethal bullets! it's a travesty!' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'A note on amendments - you do NOT need the Congress to ratify amendments - though that is one possible way to propose them.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i got hit by a car on my bike was quite and exhilarating experience' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Reread your Article V, please :)' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one or t'other, jhav, needs ratifying by all the states' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'believe it's just the senate, no?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Right, they need to be ratified by the states - but they can call a convention to propose amendments without action from Congress.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you see, there's this thing called due process' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's what prevents crackpots from taking over and shitting up your country' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'very comforting to the victims.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Bush got elected' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when you start letting slip with your due process, shit starts happening' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government must be kept on a very tight leash, your founding fathers said' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and he created Gitmo, the biggest travesty of due process since due process was invented.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we all know what your most recent presidents are guilty of' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'then again i was not there when that camp incident happened and it might have been the instructors way of saying dont you dare lift your barrel above the sand wall' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gitmo existed before bush.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'gitmo has been there since the 40s.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and let's not forget the RICO act. Maybe you can explain to me where due process enter there.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't need to tell me about all the lacks of due process, anaristos, i'm totally against all of those things' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're actually more important than banning assault weapons, FAR more important' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'talking about fully auto tiger?' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Gitmo refers to something specific, Rizgoth. Not to the base which has been there since the US and Cuba signed a treaty in the early 1900's. Where Cuba leases the land to the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, elchanan, feinstein semi-auto ban everything bills' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They can move Gitmo to some of my land in Alaska if they want.....will even sign a 100 year lease.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'nice to know how you feel about due process.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think the whole point of gitmo is that it wasn't American soil, so they could get away with stuff there that would have been illegal if it were on american soil, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'great technicality, Tigernuts. Who cares about the intent, as long as you do it elsewhere. But that, by your account, also apply to Guam, the US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico or any other possession.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'I think he was just stating fact Ana not supporting it. Quit trying to lash out at everything that moves' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'those are US soil.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'it makes you look desperate.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if you don't think that the Guantanamo base is not US territory, you try walking in.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'legally it isnt US soil' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so Cuba is free to do with it what it wants.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not justifying it, anaristos, that's how your GOVERMENT justifies it' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but I dont see anyone moving the base off cuba.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'after all, it is, technically, Cuban soil.'' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'well, as long as they meet the payments, Cuba won't evict them.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'sure they could force us out, to the detriment of themselves tho' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like Cuba could' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should lease all of Cuba....turn it into a resort island, like it used to be.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'btw assult rifle vs sniper rifle sniper rifle wins' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'only if you quickscope ;x' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'They couldn't think of a big enough lie to invade Cuba, Tigernuts. They have stripped everything from the island with their embargo. The US could not renege on the lease and keep their altar boy image to the world at the same time.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Id say cuba /probably/ deserved what they got.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what do you mean quickscope' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and we know to what extent the US goes to blame the other guy from getting invaded. But Cuba doesn't even pose a threat to itself.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its a videogame term, nevermind.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'going to bed now. I understand you want to eradicate gun homicide, it's a noble cause, but i think your view is a totally naive and impractical one, and to be honest, you guys have got far bigger problems on your hand that public ownership of AR15's' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trust me, outside of the USA, USA does NOT have a alter boy image' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I know my view is impractical. People love killing to much to give up an easy means to accomplish it.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no people love freedom' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bully, devil, hypocrites maybe' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its actually pretty hard to kill someone with a bullet, depending on the caliber' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I know the the "Ugly American" is not a myth :)' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '.300 win mag ... and a well placed shot' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a .22 in the back of the skull seems pretty effective to me.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'its gonna take quite a few shots from a 9mm pistol to put me down, or someone who is a superior marksman' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was land of the free, home of the brave that the world loved, not land of the pistol-whipped nanny surveillance homogenized federal superstate' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so you are saying your are willing to be shot as long as you survive the incident. Of course, you will never know that you didn't survive it.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea people have been hit many times with a 9mm and they keep on kicking' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'maybe I should get shot. I'll look for a shop on the web.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love manual lawnmowers....but my radio controlled one is cool also.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i cant decide 204 ruger of .300 win mag' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'get one of those cool belgium p90s with the 50 shot clip.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'personal defense weapon ftw.' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dont really need high cap mag' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'was not thinking personal d' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'should really just get a .22 cuz they are cheap as hell to fire' T3/r7/2013-02-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, actually, it only comes with the 50 shot clip.....it was built for the 50 shot horizontal clip :p' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Al Gore invented the stool tax' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, manbearpig on Ellen show' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'social studies teacher gets reprimanded after restricting allowed media sources in student papers in a politically biased manner' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then, we all knew that public schools tended to be indoctrination hubs, CSCOPE was pretty obvious example of this' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Thailand is now making the warnings on the cigarette packs bigger, as if the smokers hadn't noticed yet.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, because people don't know cigarettes aren't bad for you you know' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, a lot of them think it's not, but they are lost causes.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'really?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i mean, really does anyone not know that cigarettes are bad for your lungs?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they don't, chances are they can't read' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'They probably know that, but that's just the tip of the iceberg.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm all for warnings on packets, and all for duty tax on them to cover the cost to health service they impart (here in the UK) but they've gone way over the top now, the duty on fags here is more than double the cost to the health service, so they're essentially just soaking poor people for money' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, just make the stuff illegal.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that would be preferable, though ideally just reduce the tax level to match the cost' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or use the extra funding to fund kick-the-habit kits, e-cigs and stuff' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Hard to calculate the cost, since smoking increases the risk of pretty much every disease.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hard, but not impossible' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I think it would be way higher than the current tax, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'put it this way, the tax money is more than double the actual cost now, bearing in mind that smoking has falled, what, 75%? in the last 30 years, and given that the health costs are offset 10-40yrs' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'let me put my stance quite clearly. If people make an informed choice to continue smoking, then provided they're paying the cost of their treatment, and are not materially harming others, then I believe extremely strongly that government have no right to interfere' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Also need to cover the costs to clean up after smokers on the streets :P' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe exactly the same thing about any drugs' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'since the public smoking ban, that's a non-issue here' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm old enough to remember how it was before, too' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I agree, as long as the drug use is done on your own property. Public drug use should be illegal.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'subject to licensing laws, Ranrr, pubs/clubs/bars for alcohol, specific cafe's for pot' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'In Sweden, we still have smokers on the street, unfortunately. And they throw their cigs everywhere.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's a societal thing, unfortunately, it's the fault of the person, not the cigarette' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Sure. But they all do it.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people are allowed to smoke outside here, just not in public enclosed spaces' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Same here. Imho, it should be illegal to smoke outdoors.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's daft' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'At least in public space.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe here you have to be more than x-feet from an entrance' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Even away from an entrance, we share air. And they litter.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are also no smoking zones like plaza's and things, but a complete ban is silly. what if you're in the middle of nowhere?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'govts should just stop being hypocritical and ban smoking outright' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Ok, let's say at least 20 meters from anyone else. Or your own property.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'air share is a bit of a myth thing, litter is a real problem, but that can be tackled elsewise' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'but NO, they need the $ from tax.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I can smell the smoke, no myth.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smell, yes, it's no health risk though, you could just as easily ban aftershave, perfume, sweat' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only extra law i'd ask for here is a ban on smoking in an enclosed private space where there is a minor present' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Just increase the legal age for smoking 1 year at a time, and in a couple generations we are rid of it. If only that worked.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor should it' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you shouldn't be legislating personal behaviour when it doesn't harm others' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Smoking is pointless. At least other drugs have interesting side effects.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not strictly true, is it? Nicotine is a mood stabiliser, an appetite suppresser, and a calmer' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Rules would be too complicated for smoking. Better to ban it, it does affect others.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rules? and how does it affect others?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It smells.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so does many other things' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And second-hand smoking is bad for kids.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only in a confined space, and i've already suggest an easy final step for that' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes, and I think a complete ban would be simpler.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why stop there, then? ban everything' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'smoking is bad:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4I5LXM2HWU' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ban perfume because it smells' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ban pigs because they smell' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ban cars because their emissions are bad for kids' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No. I think we should allow more drugs, and ban some of the current ones.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'certain drugs should be discouraged because of addiction problems, for others, responsible informed use should be encouraged' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but notice i said discouraged, not banned, it's not government's job' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, I prefer to have public healthcare that is financed by taxes. That does not work if everything is allowed. Sorry.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why doesn't it?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Because I have to pay for your personal choice.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no you don't, i already pointed out that smokers pay more in taxes for their fags than it costs the public purse' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You said that. I don't believe it.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so quite clearly you're not paying for others personal choice (and i don't smoke cigs, btw))' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's your problem, it's true' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Source?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might not be true where you are, or in the USA, but it's true here' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.the-tma.org.uk/tma-publications-research/facts-figures/tax-revenue-from-tobacco/' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/smoking-costs-nhs-pound5bn-a-year-1700509.html' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but even if it didn't, i said earlier that the tax should reflect the cost, so your objection still holds no weight' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you're in Sweden, i seriously doubt your government earns -less- than the UK government' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '20 fags are near enough 10euro a pack here' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'imo, if smoking 10 cigarettes causes social costs of 1 dollar, there should be a tax slightly higher than 1 dollar on those cigarettes.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're suggesting using tax as a tool of behaviour control, Tinada, and I CANNOT stand behind that, it goes against principles of freedom and liberty' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot start an argument from that as a "given"' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a valid position, but not an assumed' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I'm suggesting that given the existence of a tax funded health care system, people deliberately creating extra costs for that system should be made to pay' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you'd followed the argument, you'd find that they already do here' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've even been posted links to the figures' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Also, I do not see anything principally wrong with taxes as a form of behaviour control' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well i do' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What, then?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what what?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What is principally wrong with using taxes/subsidies to affect what people do' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'optionally, what are better ways' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'society should inform people on what to do, not have government legislate' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'While I agree that it may be good in some cases, government is often wrong about what is good or bad behaviour, and it's often based on faux science. E.g. the fat tax in denmark.' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the role of government is to protect people form the misdeeds of others, and facilitate society, not dictate it' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'large drink tax in NYC, Ranrr' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'If taxes are bad, what about fines, jail?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, Tinada' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not their job' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a heroine addict forcibly shoots up someone who didn't want it, then that's the government's job to sort out' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if an informed person wants to smoke fags until he has cancer, then that's his personal choice' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'What if his cancer costs other tax payers 500k?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Who pays for that?' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we've already discussed that' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither you nor government have the moral authority to dictate, only to inform and encourage' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll give you an example of action that i -did- agree with, from the fake-socialist then-government here in the UK to do with cars' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'faced with poor car sales, and the desire to get more efficient, less polluting cars on the road, they offered people 1000gbp trade-in for their old (roadworthy) cars against new cars that conformed to certain emissiona and efficiency standards' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it WORKED well, but also notice they didn't just "tax" other cars, or make them illegal, it was an ENCOURAGEMENT' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama could do something similar in the US, and could be cagey and limit the list to models built in the USA ... :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would help his carbon plan and help boost the economy' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Fish are becoming easier to catch because SSRi's in the water making them more relaxed' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Greenspan: Ignore the economy, 'only the stock market matters'' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"data shows that not only are stock markets a leading indicator of economic activity, they are a major cause of it "' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The stock market predicted 9 of the last 6 recessions' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how come they're having a recess when they've only been back like 4 weeks?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'huh? Recess? 4 weeks? They?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'govmints' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Ah. Don't care. :D' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps that pay cut is justified :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Geology graduate, Cait Reilly, 24, won her court case, arguing unpaid work placement at a budget supermarket required in return for continued benefits payments, breached laws on forced labour' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sequester. good thing or bad thing?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'bad because it means nobody is doing their fucking job' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'congress gets to fuck dogs and sheep all day instead of passing laws' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're the elite, of course they do' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no different to lords and ladies of old' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, the sequester is the best answer so far, since it gives democrats the only chance to cut spending and not be blamed for it' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for republicans, it's the only chance of getting spending cuts full stop' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'democrats do actually propose spending cuts regularly. they just also ask for meager tax increases which throw republicans into apoplectic fits' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i've been told, have yet to see any evidence of any' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, "raising spending at a lower rate that originally planned" does not constitute a spending cut' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'my understanding is that the automatic cuts hurts republican interests more than democrat ones, because even a single dollar away from the military industrial complex is verboten' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then surely that's a good thing?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'after all, military adventures are not a republican ideal, they're neocon ideal' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'maybe. hard to say. I'd rather see billionaires paying taxes.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that ain't going to happen anywhere' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not unless you singlehandedly manage to kick both parties out of politics' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I don't think either party is blameless. I just think that the republican party is far worse in this regard.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's as good as opinion as any. I personally believe they're as bad as each other because they ARE each other' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that's what the gop wants you to think, no doubt...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the same way Labour and Tory are fag-packet distance apart in the UK' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hardly' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gop should give the party back to it's founding ideals' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but they won't because the globalist corporate interests (neocons) own it' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why when they posted pre-tax profits from US operations in 2012 of $1.1billion, does it now look like Facebook will pay tax of MINUS $429million?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm glad that you agree that it is the Kissengers, Soros's, Buffets of the world who should be being taxed' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I also think that corporate income tax should disappear and that it should all be personal' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i feel the same way about national insurance contributions, capital gains tax, and property tax' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'property tax is a personal wealth cut, which I'm fine with' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'many billionaires do believe that they should be taxed more as a class, but the few who oppose that are also the ones willing to put money into it.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have an ideological objection to personal property tax' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have a more accurate interpretation of it than that, Sonshi, billionaires CLAIM they should be paying more tax, but they are the exact same people that set up the laws such that they can avoid it, essentailly meaning that the upper middle classes pay all the tax, not them' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'with rising capital share of income and the corresponding falling labour share of income, the tax system should be readjusted to compensate for that...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tax system should be massively simplified to include just income tax and sales tax' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and a few select specific duties' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'capital gains is income' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'so does that fall under income tax?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends what you mean exactly' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I think that what we currently call capital gains should be taxed as regular income' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i agree' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'that certainly should be the case... with a few exemptions.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's currently used by rich people to lower their tax bills because it often has lower rates, it's own complex allowance systems' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'exemptions are stupid' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd do away with all tax-free allowances' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'owner-occupied housing, for example, ought to be exempt...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and do away with all tax credits' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole point of there being no exemptions is that everyone is treated equally and there is NO opportunity for abuse' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you tax that at ordinary income rates, it will be difficult for people to find comparable housing when moving, since part of the value is taken.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tax what?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'say market rate when you bought is 100k. Comparable housing rises to 300k while you're staying in it. You sell for 300k. Good luck finding comparable housing at that price...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'after part of it has been taxed' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless that house has increased in value far higher than inflation, you wouldn't be taxed much' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Your capital gain is only 200k on that house, it would be tax free.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'why are you selling if you can't find something better?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'assume that this $100k house, with inflation adjusted comes to $200k. You sell it for $300k, the gain is $100k, taxed at 10% is $10, you ge $290k, not exactly ruined you, has it?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'this creates a large disincentive to move, and restricts labour mobility, making it even harder for people to move to where they can find better jobs.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are considerably bigger disincentives and blockages out there than that' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're taxing at ordinary income, it's not going to be just 10%...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'inflation doesnt count towards capital gain in the US for homes....if you buy it for 100k, and sell it for 300k, the gain is 200k.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're talking about an aspirational new system, riz, not what's out there now' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'we're not talking about the current situation, we're talking about taxing capital gains as ordinary income.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it wont change anyways, because your tax is still 0' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'anyway, you're now talking about selling something that has less value and trying to buy something else that has more value than what you sold. the person in that position should be expecting to take another mortgage on the more expensive property, not pay it off with the earnings from the sale.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Get rid of the mortgage deduction, instead of taxing capital gains at full rate....makes more sense.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inheritance shoudl be considered income, too' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd do both, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the mortgage deduction costs $80 billion a year.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we already said we'd get rid of all deductions and exemption' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you're selling a 300k house to buy another 300k house in another location and are getting taxed on the capital gains, you will have to cough up more money/take another loan.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not in favor of that, sorry..' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct, Sonshi' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which isn't far from the situation now' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I believe the current situation has you taking a 0 hit...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I prefer a capital gain tax of 10% on all investments, and no deduction on losses. Losses are the risk you take when you invest.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'current situation you pay your stamp duty, you don't get it back when you sell' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'quite far from getting hit 20% on the 100k or whatever.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'should the tax system recognise marriage?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'equal tax for all.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct answer, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'much like your no-exemptions stand on capital gains as ordinary income thing, the law of unintended consequences strikes here again...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there were no provable unintended consequences on the no-exemptions stand, but if you want to try again on this, feel free' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'regrettably, richer people are on average better able to shift around their income, allowing them an advantage over poorer "working stiffs"...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all investment income except muni bonds should be taxable at 10% of actual gain.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why only 10%?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole point of a simplified single-rate system with no exemptions, Sonshi, is exactly that "shifting money around" makes no difference' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'sure, stick it to the poor guy...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That all you need it to be rate, because all income is now available to the tax, except muni bonds.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'investment income that is.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would also do something about all of the non-income related taxes that -really- stiff poor people' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ah, 10% in addition.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in addition to what ?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'to taxes on income? Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, capital gains tax would be 10%, regular income tax would be ladded from 3% to 41%' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'laddered even' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feh, ladder, 20% flat rate from 0 to 52k gbp, 40% rate from 52k upwards until the ship is stable, then 20% flat all the way to go with the 20% sales tax' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the ship is stable.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all ladders do is make profit for accountants' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not going to punish our people more just because the brits enjoy it so much. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we have a ladder, it's shit' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't do what the lefties claim' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'why should it be lower than regular income for the rich, in a time when labour share of income is falling vs capital?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll continue after dinner' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'd rather hit capital a bit more, and have a wider 0% bracket...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you have money to risk losing on investments, the 10% tax instead of regular income tax is the bonus.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'instead of whining about the inequalities of rich and poor, fix the system we have so that poor people are not penalized for making more money which is what happens now.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'fix that, and more people will become middle class.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'not deducting for losses means that people who are more adept at shifting around money in complex financial instruments to absorb their losses would gain a huge advantage...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not if those loopholes are closed, which is happening now....that is why companies like Apple have $2 trillion parked overseas that wont be moved back to the US....it is harder for them to add to that total except from foreign profit, or interest.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If they move that profit to the US, it is taxed at the full rate.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, say Mr McMoneyBags has a lossmaking investment in A Corp and a large gain in B Corp... what's to stop him from merging the two investments using a swap of financial instruments?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'how can you stop that without shutting down legitimate and useful activity?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the point is, not deducting losses breaks the system in too many ways to count...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You would have to do that before the current tax year for it to take effect. That is normal business practice, and not a problem.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You create a holding company to hold both companies, then each ones profit or loss effects the parent company taxes.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but it means that people who can do that are advantaged over the poor guy who can't simply cancel his losses with his profits...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Anyone can do that, and poor people dont because they are poor and do not run businesses.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'go make some money first, then whine.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'so what happened to "fix the system we have so that poor people are not penalized for making more money which is what happens now."?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is not the problem, the problem is poor people lose benefits when they make a little more money....not the fact that they have no money to create holding companies to hold all their profit making and losing companies. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yeah, but to create a strong middle class, they should not be too badly disadvantaged in the stock market...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they are not disadvantaged, except for not having any money.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you buy stock and make money, that is a capital gain.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'regardless if you are rich or poor.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'making them unable to deduct losses is a disadvantage for them, since rich people have accountants who can merge stuff easily...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no one should be able to deduct losses, and since poor do not partake in the stock market.....they are not disadvantaged, and if they did partake, they could still deduct losses from income' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'anyone can deduct losses from profits, you dont need an accountant to do it for you.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'try doing your own taxes for once.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'wait... "no one should be able to deduct losses" and "if they did partake, they could still deduct losses from income"?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I use turbotax :\' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'turbotax is doing your own tax....:)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in a perfect tax system, there wouldnt be deductions for losses on investment, but the current system says you can deduct losses up to 3 or 5 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which means poor and rich both can deduct losses from earnings to balance them.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'yes, what I'm saying is that losses should be deducted so that small investors aren't screwed...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They are not screwed, they can deduct just the same as anyone else.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'which is the current system, as opposed to your perfect system.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'I'm saying they'd be screwed under your system, not the current one.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: '(relatively anyway)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'look, republicans added the loss deduction to the tax code a long time ago...I cant remember when, but they did it to help their rich sponsors....and over the years it has expended to cover 3-5 years instead of just current year' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it needs to be removed, then companies like IBM wouldnt be paying 5% tax.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'companies shouldn't be paying any tax. taxing an entity that is merely a passthrough to individuals is silly' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, not everything that came out of a republican mouth was crap back then...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'their current insanity is a recent thing, as far as I know...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'corporations are not pass through, they have the legal benefits of a single person.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'one practical reason for taxing corporations is to (try to) hit foreign shareholders' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'corporate taxes are too high, it needs to be lowered, especially on manufacturing.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'legal benefits of a single person is a stupid excuse. they shouldn't have that in the first place.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you don't tax them, it raises their value for foreign shareholders who can avoid taxation... since they get more value after-tax' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and raise the min wage, and the standard deduction for single or married people to $15,000 per person.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'the 0% bracket (standard deduction, whateveryoucallit) certainly ought to be expanded...' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'ow. Handache. Stupidlaptopkeyboard.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi's shifty eyes dart back and forth. T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we wouldnt need to spend $140 billion on the earned income credit if we raised the deduction.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and save admin costs too' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it wouldnt be on the federal budget.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'win win' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'still spend the same amount of money, but with no paperwork, rules, and crap, and no listing on the fed budget ledger.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and itmakes filing taxes a little easier.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'and lots of man-hours saved not figuring out tax forms' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Can muslims consume synthahol ?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'probably not' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'why not ?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'what makes you think alcohol is special?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nothing about it in the quran' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like i missed a look' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'synthahol is not alcohol, it has no affect on you, just the taste.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'not true' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Clza1XVA0SI' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Synthehol' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'currency wars.....' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh are both part of unions, despite spending most of their airtime demonising them' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'I wonder if anyone is part of an intersection' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish is part of the null set. T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm part of a TreeSet' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there can only be one' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish mapreduced your mom last night. T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'lots of people who don't like, and demonize, unions are part of them...not all jobs or careers give you a choice in the matter' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Limbaugh and O'Reilly?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I imagine they probably have a choice' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'everyone has a choice ;x' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not if you want to continue in your chosen profession, you don't' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'it's difficult to be a highschool teacher without being part of a union' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'but those two probably don't have such limitations' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they'd be part of broadcasting unions' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'actually they prolly do. Most on screen personalities are unionized' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ewA8KU9PJgs' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Max Keiser rocks' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when I worked in a school district, my choice was "be in the union and pay union dues" or "don't be in the union and pay the same dues to be not in the union" (I was on the non-teaching side, teachers didn't even get that choice)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'when I worked at a grocery store, my choice was "be in UFCW local 1" or "don't work here"' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having a similar argument with my work about the work pension' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unions will eventually be made illegal' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'we had that once. it didn't work out so well' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think that is a factor that matters to them' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I doubt it. Last time that happened, didnt WW2 also happen?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ww1 also happened after the last currency war' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or we will all be in a union' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unions will be disbanded because they threaten the 'legimiate authority of power' of government and corporate control' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'Which government are we talking about here?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA initially, but essentially all of them eventually' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'these are predictions' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'doubt it.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'That's odd you would say the US government, since unions contribute to democrats. A major faction of power will not allow them to fade away.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they aren't banned, they'll be significantly defanged' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'already have here' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'never going to get rid of certain unions, and when things at work get even worse.....more unions will emerge, and take over everything because you cant trust govt and big business together.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Haladin nods at Rizgoth. T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll see' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Amazon used neo Nazi guards to keep immigrant workforce under control in Germany' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that 14 Billion years ago everything was One, but that the One wanted there to be Many, so the One exploded itself into a bazillion million pieces (the Big Bang) and now there is still the One, but he is composed of the Many. ' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '28 billion years ago the was a bazillion million pieces, but they wanted to be ONE, and it took 14 billion years for them to coalesce.... ' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Superman is the ultimate comic char....it is a shame the films have not done him justice.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and Green Lantern had so much potential, but they screwed that up also.....Except for the new Batman films, DC sucks at making films.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Happy to see Tigernuts, You welcome him to North Korea. T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Hans Blix?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): The Jerk Fiendish sits in the corner and tries to convince you he is the 'Voice of the people' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we had 3 million furriners move the country over 10 years into a country where the infrastructure was already 20 years out of date, crumbling, inadequate housing etc etc' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that explains the anti-foreigner sentiment' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'however, for the very wide part, it isn't a racist issue, it's purely a protectionist attitude' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'You still have to kill * a grubby biggar (Nottingham)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most of the racist related crime you see in the UK is perpetrated by foreigners' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'talk about racist!' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You should be building millions of homes every year like we do here in the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, there's a stack of reasons why they don't' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the guvmint needs to in order to create cheap social housing and bring the welfare bill down, but they won't' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the planning system is tied up in cahoots with large building companies such that essentially ONLY those select building companies get to build new houses on any scale, and they won't do it unless they can get top dollar for it (i.e not in the last 3 years)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and if land is a problem...there is Ireland.....' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'over the last 20 years, every house with a scrap of garden had a house built on it, it was the only way small builders and joe bloggs could do it' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'seems to me that there is lots of open land in the UK....itis a pretty big island.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a large chunk of it is national parks' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dont lie to me, I am one of the few americans who watch british tv.....' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rest of it has already been ruled out and unbuildable by the local implementation of Agenda 21' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'are youbeing served doesn't count' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's room to build, but only if you want no green spaces for things like food production' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want an eco-friendly country that is largely self sufficient, we'd need to shed about two thirds of the current 70 million people' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hydroponics works amazingly well.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there are tiny villages surrounded with huge open spaces all over the UK.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'once you remove the national parks, you're left with less than 1/5 of an acre per person' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dont need THAT much farm land.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are rarely more than 1 mile from a village anywhere outside of Scotland, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rarely more than 5 miles from a town, or more than 15 miles from a city' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Doc Martin.....' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'set in scotland' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'use a weapon.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'mis' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'damn good show, should have gone a few more seasons.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The show is set in the fictional seaside village of Portwenn and filmed on location in the village of Port Isaac, Cornwall, United Kingdom,' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not scotland.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'might as well be scotland for the understandability of the locals' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I enjoy it so much, that I am going to visit port isaac someday.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the nearest towns to port isaac are 10 miles away.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what about it?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love how the boats just let the tide go out and sit on the beach until it comes back.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'should harness that potential power.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why harness free power when you can fleece the tax power to build windmills?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, windmills are great to shoot arrows at.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Cain killd Abelinc tilts at Rizgoth T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not going to drive there though....you british people are crazy drivers.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'safest place to drive in Europe' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly because the roads are so packed, no-one is going anywhere' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'maybe the safeness of the roads is due to the excrutiatingly high cost of motoring (cars, insurance etc)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is what happens when you only build 1 lane roads all over the country.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we built 1 lane cart tracks over the country, thanks' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'those 1 lane cart-tracks used to be great fun to drive on in quiet times 20 years ago' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too many other cars now' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I guess the US is not the only country to start removing train service to small towns.....have to take a bus to port isaac :(' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hate buses....prefer trains.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trains? haven't had those since the 60s' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, we got rid of ours in the 1910s.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mostly boring freight trains now.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I still take the train :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'dont forget to put air holes in the box you travel in....abel.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our freight is almost exclusive road freight, making the roads busier again, and holding up traffic because of the speed limit differential on those 1-lane cart tracks' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'my 1-square-mile town has a "regional rail" train station for easy access to philly or new york city :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Saving Grace is a good film about marijuana....and it was filmed in port isaac....doc martin was a spin off of a char in the film, but with a different name.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'tho, riding a double decker bus from london to cornwall would be kinda fun.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'highly unlikely' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but perhaps there is a train.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be a train a large chunk of the way' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a nice, small, reassuringly expensive, slow and late train' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'I think Obama is Mitt Romney infused with Michael Jackson and George Bush, jk.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cookies were invented in Persia.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'I was invented in Russian ruled by China under American law.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ruth Graves Wakefield (1903-1977), a 1930s-era Massachusetts innkeeper. Without Ruth there would be no chocolate chip cookies and by extension, no peanut butter chip cookies or other flavors of chips, no chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream, no Chipwich. She created the cookie while living in the Toll House in Massachusettes.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'thats a sweeping statement, I'm sure it would have been discovered by someone else' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I mean calculus was simultaneously discovered, I'm sure someone would have thought of the chocolate chip' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'shaddup and go eat a cookie.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Nestle made a deal with her that allows them to use the Toll House Cookie recipe on all of their packages, her estate gets a fee for every use.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'that wench' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'she was also given a supply of chocolate for the rest of her life.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'unfortunately, the original building burned down during a 1984 new years eve party :(' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Bah, what happened to the days when you could buy a scoop of jelly beans for 1 penny ?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or a scoop of lemon drops for 1 penny.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, hey, pre-existing conditions is once again a reason to deny health insurance under Obamacare.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Really?' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Thanks Obama!' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mye: 'that specifically affected kids iirc' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yeah, PCIP has run out of money already.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I don't think it's kid-specific, Mye. The Pre-existing Conditions Insurance Program was designed as a go-between between now and 2014, when Obamacare's anti-discrimination feature comes into full force.' T3/r7/2013-02-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mye: 'nods.. i think i was recalling insurance reform from a few years back.. looking this up it's something newer :)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Keli Goff, as good a poster child for the need for eugenics as anyonne' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Leading Geneticist: Human intelligence is slowly declining' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Survey of satisfaction of the direction the US was going in came out: 27% overall, breaks down to 47%/24%/9% Democrat/Independent/Republican' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A leading genius researcher says the chances of new geniuses is getting lower with time.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no more Einsteins :(' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not surprising people are getting more stupid, look at the media, look at politics, just look at the world generally' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'look at the education system, look at the way everyone is poisoned' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'better still, don't look, it's too depressing' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, it mostly has to do with mutation, human evolution appears to have stagnated.....we need a leap forward.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps the next leap forward will be technology based, since that appears to be the only evolution taking place :p' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be no leap forward' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British Medical Association is callin g for a fizzy drinks tax' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm calling for a 50% pay cut for doctors' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's with all the gas price increases?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i would love to pay US gas prices if i had a car' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would too' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i just filled up at around $8.50 a gallon' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it's dirt cheap there' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's cheaper' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not dirt cheap, you need to go to south america for that' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i don't get what americans are crying about' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'different economical environment of course...' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, SA countries tend to subsidise the gas, european countries tax it until people bleed' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mainly because european countries are governed by cunts' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'I just filled up my 14 MPG truck with $3.15 gas a few days ago :) Not to rub salt on the wound or anything' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'just looked into it the price for gas is more than 2x higher here than in the states' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '$3.15 where ?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, because clearly it costs twice as much, right?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'Houston, hence the lower than average price' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i'm not complaining because i don't have a car. also, i'm not a self-proclaimed expert in economy and can't guess why the prices are like they are' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'all i can say is that americans are whiny' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well Dagnir, you're right about somethings, but it doesn't take an expert in econimcs, self proclaimed or not, it's predominantly down to the level of taxation' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'LOL, and europeans are economically detached generalists ' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, I prefer the cost of propane in north dakota....they are swimming in it from the natgas wells, and last time I was there, it was $1.25 retail per gallon.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'mayhap. i just don't know how much of the price are taxes' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tunx: 'most of it is profit and taxes' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, in western north dakota that is....eastern nd it is still normal price.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'ok, looked into it - the tax on gas is 422.77 euros per 1000 liters' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'high taxes on fuel does not help anyone, except the govt.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'But the fed tax on fuel in the US is to low....it needs to be raised 1 penny per year for 10 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK typical diesel price $8.46/gallon. WIthout tax it would be $3.46' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the transportation fund which pays for new roads is in debt now, not enough fuel taxes to keep up with spending.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'rizgoth, you might want to let scandinavian countries know about the tax problem' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The fuel tax has not changed, even though fuel use is town because of higher mpg.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the tax take from fuel in the UK pays for the entire department of transport budget (includes public transport subsidies for rail, bus) 2 times over' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'down even' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'I agree Riz, its probably the only tax I WANT to go up. Roads are a mess all over the place' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your taxes are pretty low in comparison, really' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you just have a bunch of nutjobs in charge, is all' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'another reason for higher prices in europe is almost all of the gas/diesel you consume is imported. No refining with the exception of Finland? I think. So the govt levies an import tax' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'I drive 45 minutes down the road and I would pass several major refineries here haha' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we refine here' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US federal fuel tax hasnt changed in almost forever...it is currently 18.4 cents per gallon. It needs to be raised so that roads can continue to be fixed via block grants to states from the feds.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'putting that up will make him popular ;-)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Southern US refineries routinely ship refined fuels to other countries, so that we can get top dollar for them.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'quite a bit of the new US oil production in Texas will be exported overseas.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'as fuel.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'read an article the other day saying the US will achieve energy independence in 5 years now, faster than anticipated.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas oil production increased by 33% in 2 years. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not if Obama continues his villification of coal' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hehe, here's something for tigernuts - http://i.imgur.com/MaR5Zrw.jpg' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ND production increased by 600% in 3 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'and holy shit, great timing there' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'russian meteorite was clearly the work of al-quaeda working in cahoots with the tea party' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get it right' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US went from a natgas importer 5 years ago, to 98% self sufficient toay.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas has half of the largest oil refineries in the country.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'government use of exagerated statistics up 1,000,000% since 2008' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jihadist urges Muslims to 'take England' by seeking welfare...' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'viva la raza, Abdullah!' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do we think of Marco Rubio?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he's to the republicans what Obama was to the democrats.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'huh?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doubt that' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Surely it's time for another Bush' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'wait, i think it was a rhetorical question and nuts will tell us himself' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't look remotely black enough or sound remotely extreme enough for that' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if I recall, Rubio got elected on the coattails of the Tea Party movement and then once he won he sold them out.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'heh' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'an interesting comparison then' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i would like extreme obama. y'know, skateboarding and eating pizza. to the max' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wiki claims he never had any official links to the tea party' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'strikes me more of a golf and prawns guy' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'no, nothing official. He was definitely present and accounted for at many of their meetings when it was cool to associate with them, and he ran on their platform.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rubio looks a bit suspect to me' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he's certainly no Dr Paul' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the Pauls are the Naders of the 21st century.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not versed in medium term US political history enough to know who Nader was' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i hate him less than Paul Ryan' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Ralph Nader. He is most famously known as the independant with the most number of failed presidential bids. A prominent sci-fi author even wrote a book that created cult of followers for him called the Naderites (they were far more successful than Ralph ever was).' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would you like David Cameron?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'He is also "credited" for Gore loosing in 2000' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if Gore had won, would he have gone on to trying and scam the world with his "pay me all your money for the earth" bullshit?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'probably. The pay for your work in government sucks compared to what you'd get from corporate interests and talk tours.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bah' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'instead we gave all our money for wars' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well hopefully he'll have a polar bear land on him' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the polar bears are too tired from swimming to flap their legs fast enough to fly.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't be ridiculous, Hanslanda, polar bears can't swim, that's a crazy conspiracy theory' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they can swim, but mostly they're like giant white turds.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whatever ever right wing batshit crazy idea are you going to come up with next, that plants breath CO2?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guns are a defensive weapon?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'high taxes leads to lower revenue?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Hey tiger isn't your left and right in UK the reverse from the US? (Not trying to make point just want to know)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends which way you're facing' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'heh no, europe's right = our left and europe's left = our left-wing lunatic fringe.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'our centrists are uncomfortably far right by most european standards :P' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'haha I love descriptiom' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU is essentially built and staffed by ex communists out of the USSR, Karang, if that gives you any context' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Is it common for those in Uk to follow American Politics as it seems you guys on here?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, most brits are fuckwits and believe exactly what the mainstream media dictates to them' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Errrr' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'closet Brit, Jhav?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'No, I just think your statement is overly specific.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'I see' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'So brits are like Americans? I feel better about my country :p' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much, karang, different ethnic makeup, but essentially the same trash' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're a little further down the road of nanny-state socialist control than you guys are' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they got us there slower too, so most people didn't notice' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'Dont forget big brother atleast ours isnt quite as "visible" as yours' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ours is visible but quiet' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yours is fucking noisy and getting in everyones face for no reason' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we don't have army vets being tugged by the feds for posting disparaging comments about our exhalted leader on Facebook' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we just get jobsworths taking young activists to task for videoing himself burning a rememberance day poppy in protest over foreign wars' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what that boils down, I think... is that our big brother state doesn't suffer from the cult of personality that yours does' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'they actually reactivated a soldier in IRR to court martial' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did you read about the latest fiasco going on in Gitmo?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'hmm no and a cursory google glance fdidnt show me' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/17/guantanamo-trial-microphone-revelations' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Karang: 'cant say im surprisef' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dagnir would be' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if the requirement is merely a 67% majority to enact, why is it important that all states ratify a constitutional amendment?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'only 67% have to vote yes' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'but it is on a timer' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'all are required to vote, if less than 100% vote within the period given, the petition lapses.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'so no voting is equivalent to voting no' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is three fourth isn't it? unless you are referring to proposing amendments' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'it is a large majority either 67 or 75%' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: '2/3rds is generally called a supermajority' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'whatever, being American I've got a right to forget the classwork.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I tend to think the 3/4 is right.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'note that the states (landowners) vote for the amendments, a clear display that the US is a republic.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'but still, if the amendment can now be officially referred to as part of the Constitution instead of qualified as an undecided proposal, what's the big deal on getting the not-yes voters to switch sides?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what are you saying? If the required majority of the states vote yes, the constitution is amended, otherwise it remains as is. Creating an amendment is not an amendment in itself.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the classic example is (or was) the ERA amendment in the 1980s, it was allowed to lapse.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'most states felt that the CRA enacted during the Johnson administration adequately covered the subject.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'wow, you really aren't paying attention, are you?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'I am. What you said was nonsense but I didn't choose to call it that :)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'focus on, say, the 13th amendment.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'what about it?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'I like to focus on the 29th amendment' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it passed. #50 ratified it in 1995 (and until just now, forgot to tell everyone).' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'good luck with that one, Fiendish :)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'several other states ratified it years after the requisite majority was obtained to ensconce it into the constitution. Why bother with the vote, when the vote has not only already been decided but was decided a few generations ago?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'Hanslanda, what it actually means to me, is that since MS never voted for the amendment, it really doesn't exist as part of the constitution. But get anyone to agree with that in court. That is about the same thing with the 16USAmend, many people will tell you that it hasn't been ratified, but you will have no luck with that in court.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Mississippi's vote doesn't at all matter. They were the very last state, and if you are going to allow the other 49 states to apply then the majority has already long been reached. All 50 states voted yes.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't understand, unless they claim that the voting period didn't expire before MS voted, that amendment was not ratified. At the very least it could not be enforced.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what are you talking about' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'unless, of course, there were enough aye votes when the ratification period elapsed.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in which case MS vote counted as a no and things went on from there. So MS ratification now is just a formality (so that they don't look like the support slavery)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'even if they still might :P' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: '(officially)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'they probably do tho' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): SnailBot Anaristos rapidly nods twice at Twyst, in complete agreement. T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in the case of th 16th, it is really not clear what the state of the amendment is, clearly the government wants it to be a ratified and incorporated amendment, but the debate goes on.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah but most (if not all) of the non ratification arguments are frivolous' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'most' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the point is, though, that with something so monumental, the government should have made sure that all the i's were dotted and all the t's crossed.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'you have to ask yourself how long it would take for an identical ammendment to be passed assuming the 16th is invalid' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which is a very generous assumption' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'if all the fraud is true, it would be a clear indication that the states didn't want the amendment ratified.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'and in today's atmosphere, that amendment would be DOA' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'not realistically' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the government would grind to a screeching halt' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the 16th amendment really required that the states give up some of their sovereignty ' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'by allowing a federal income tax?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'in clear violation of the the nation fathers' idea of a weak central government.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'like the articles of confederation?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'I love it that people assert to know the minds of men dead two hundred years.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the initial idea for the US was of strong states linked by a weak federal presence.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'which was tried and crashed and burned' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'you don't have to know their minds, just read what they wrote :)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'not initiaally, it wasn't crushed. It was what won over a lot of the colonies that were thinking of going their separate ways. It was later that the federal government showed its teeth.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'thanks to Jefferson' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a lot of the colonies didn't want a federation.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'under the Articles of Confederation, we had some of the worst inflation of our history. And more funny money than Canada and Australia combined.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah the articles of confederation were a disaster and yet so many are enamored with returning to that' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'an indecent number are enamored with the Federalist movement, too.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'what is the function of the federal government' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'to levy taxes' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'seriously though' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the common defense and the like right?' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'why even have a union, might as well be mutual defence agreements ala nato' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes, seriously. As of the adoption of the US constitution in 1789, Federal government (Congress) has the power to levy taxes on any form of accession of wealth from any means, except where exempted by said entity.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'a lot of states would like to know the same thing :) But they all remember what happens if they try to secede :)' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the 16th amendment doesn't grant the power to tax, it just defines how to handle those taxes.' T3/r7/2013-02-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: '"The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises"' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the avg price of regular gasoline in the US is now $3.73, up 43 cents in 1 month.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'dirt cheap' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a refinery in NJ is shutting down for maintenance in a couple days, and it provides 7.5 % of the nations gasoline.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is part of the increase, the other part is the switching to summer blend of gasoline, so the winter bend is less plentiful, and the summer blend costs more to produce.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There is a story that says in Africa, the natives use a technique to catch monkeys. They hollow out one end of a coconut and put peanuts in there. The monkey puts his hand in the coconut and when he makes a fist to grab the peanuts, hes trapped. The natives will pull a string attached to the other end of the coconut and capture the monkey.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That aptly explains the behavior of most Americans.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps you meant that explains the behaviour of most republicans and teapartyers' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ah, so democrats and liberals do not buy a lot of stuff like big houses, expensive cars, and other trinkets that turn them into slaves ?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'better yet, democrats strongly oppose the public schooling system which teaches people to sit in their caves watching shadows dancing on the wall!' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'and they certainly never spend more money than they have, only Republicans do that' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tinada grins evilly. T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'exactly, democrats and liberals are true americans....the perfect american.....everyone knows that! :p' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the monkey story is that of greed catching the monkey into an extremely bad situation -- the republicans in their greed are ruining the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so are the liberals.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and anyone else who uses much much more than they actually need.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the republicans want public spending on their Wars and infrastructure, AND their taxcuts' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We keep you alive to serve this ship (America). Row well and live.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the republicans want generous socialism for the rich but not the majority non-rich (without which they soon be overrun by foreign invaders)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if all the nonrich USAmericans vanished off the face of the earth, the rich Americans 'd not be able to hold onto the USA ' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Sure they would, just allow non citizens to come into the country to do the jobs.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Works in the middle east and other countries quite well.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'nice reduction to ridiculous..' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so basically, the rich USAmericans want a free-ride at the expense of the pnon-rich USAmericans (and the exploited world)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'UAE has about 1.2 million people, and only about 300k are citizens....the other 1.2 million do the work.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'er 900k' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as soon as the poor foreigners entered the USA, assume they'd vanish off the face of the earth as did the other non-rich USAmericans' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the fithy-rich are screwed if there were no nonrich to exploit' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Now you are being stupid, poor people are needed to keep the economy going. Someone has to buy the plastic dog shit from china.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'so, in your opinion Zade, do you believe that every person making more than $500k per year is maliciously raping and pillaging every other non-"rich" person?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'then if the rich require those non-rich, the rich better pay the non-rich a decent wage with full benefits and provide full medical' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade is saying that the USA better become more socialist T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'look how well that is working out for France lol' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not reaaly concerned about the USA -- more interested in whether the prophecies (by the Hopi, Edgar Cayce, Joseph Smith, Malachy, Nostradamus, Book of Revelation, etcetera) of the destruction of the USA (and the world) are going to happen soon' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'was hoping for a few more years before Hell broke loose and devastated the world -- but "c'est la vie", or, "c'est la mort"' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or bongo the clown.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The chain may be gold or the chain may be iron, but it is still a chain.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'something bad happen in France recently?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Did they finally banish you to mali ?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not watching the news' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'was watching the H2 History channel, aka the History of natural disasters, organised crime, and omenous predictions, channel -- both humorous and depressing' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tunx: 'The russian meteor all over the news in pretty crazy.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tunx: 'is *' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tunguska 1907 1908' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Apparently the norwegians do not know how to cut fish.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Because of overfishing from idiot fishing associations in the northeast US, the fishing quota is being reduced a minimum of 60% for most fish, and as high at 80% for some.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They should have reduced the fisheries by 20% a decade ago, could have prevented the current massive reduction.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those "idiots" that believe that an overpopulated planet is yet able to practice hunter-gatherer activities in preparation for a big disaster -- but 300 million USAmericans going hunter-gaherer camping is not going to work' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'so much love for USA on this mud...' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love the USA, best country in the world, just needs a few tweaks in certain areas.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'USAmericans ought to learn how to starve to death in preparation for when the food supply collapses' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'How about you do it first, show us how.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'everybody is going cellphones, and digital, and e-books etcetera, but if a disaster wiped out access to those satellites and fried the electricity grid, say a huge Coronal Mass Ejection event, back to the 17th century -- the Amish are fully prepared' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The chain may be gold or the chain may be iron, but it is still a chain.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just 9 percent of the seafood eaten in the United States is domestically caught' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Kodak filed bankruptcy -- because they were too big to scale down to a small firm supplying quality emulsion photos (instead of the digital crap)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is the Encyclopaedia Brittanica yet supplied in physical paper books, or did they foolishly decide to go digital DVDs -- and if so, are the customers foolish enough to buy the digital version (unless the digital version is dirt cheap)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'paper Brittanica was stopped a few years ago' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They still publish the encyclopaedia in print editions for libraries though, just not for the public anymore.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is all digital versions, and online subscriptions now.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in 50 years, a paper book version of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica shall be more informative and readable than the digital version which likely is unusable and unreadable as DVD technology shall likely be long obsolete in 50 years' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'anything in digital format these days shall likely become unusable long before a paper book version decays' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'do you use a 1960 encyclopedia often there, zade?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'because of your prophecized MCE I imagine?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You better go out and buy a $2000 hard copy then!' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a decent 1960 encyclopaedia shall likely contain more information about the early twentieth century than a 2012 encyclopaedia' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not really, since encyclopedia didn't used to do pop culture' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Wikipedia often complains that some articles require to be trimmed as they supply too much information -- what a joke' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Jesus reads the 2012 EB.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'whereas ALL paper encyclopedia articles are trimmed because they contain too much information' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'every. single. one.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: '"Mostly Harmless" =p' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if somebody wants information about the early 20th century, old paper-media sources are likely to be more informative than modern digital sources' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Hey! That article was expanded, Daloran!' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Doubled in size, nearly.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Mostly harmless was the expanded version =o' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the HHGttG entry on planet earth was doubled (to 2 words) - tsk, all that information on the Vogon destructor fleet visit was missing -- what a rippoff' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'at least i yet got a paperback copy of HHGttG -- cheap paper though -- already a slight brown color ' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, just love dried mashed potatoes.....add it to most of my recipes.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snooky: 'It's great on baked chicken' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and in clam chowders, with big pieces of baked potato.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'really good thickener for soups also, to make stews.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the chariot racing in Ben-Hur is the best part of the film.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They sure did know how to make films back then.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We really should bring back chariot racing, with 4 horses.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'chariot racing is much more exciting compared to nascar.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YXlWiTPn7pQ - a very good short documentary shedding light on the machinations that would ultimately lead to the downfall of the Republicans at the 2012 election' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(and before Fagnir chimes in, it was all the GOP's fault)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Rainer Daybreak throws back his head and cackles with insane glee! T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Reason #1: Obama. reason #2: Romney' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'or possibly vice-versa' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'essentially, their own utter insistance on getting the candidate they wanted at any cost (corruption, fraud) ' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'chose a candidate that was possibly the least likely to win, even though they had information telling them so' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'houston police investigating a possible case of spontaneous human combustion' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'CSI did that, it was a cigarette and an old lazy boy' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'already*' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Fringe did it too. And it was totally confirmed.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Michael Dorner was spontaneous human combustion, too' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the feds didn't burn the place to the ground' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(honest)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'Christopher Dorner?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, him to' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too*' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the guy that CNN were wetting themselves with praise for' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stocks hit new high due to devaluing currency' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Prominent American Scientists acll for eco-dictatorship under UN rule' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'You have to concede that a Paul presidency would be disastrous for the current power structure' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'unless, of course he met with an accident early on' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't think the globalists would have liked not having one of their men in charge' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'still, it happened how it happened and now you guys have to deal with the cards you were dealth' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and the very best of luck, too, i get the feeling you are going to need it' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's the whole "not going to raise taxes on anyone earning under $250k" going?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '$200k now' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'they stopped saying $250k, it's those earning less than $200k now.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'payrol tax went up for anyone earning.... i want to say $33k, but i think it's a lower figure' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how's the whole "i won't take your guns" promise holding up?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that was a freebie, part of the sequester/bush-era tax cuts for the rich stuff.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Colorado banned guns that don't exist, heh' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk elections they took a different plan, by not promising anything' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'maximum clip size is 15 rounds (8 for shotguns), so effectively they didn't ban anything.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK announced that they will likely be short of electric by 2015' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'want to know how much tax General Electric paid between 208 and 2010 on the $10.5bn profit they made?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tharnin: 'Does the answer matter? I'm sure you'll tell us either way.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '-$4.7bn' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think you're a bit misinformed about what the word "tax" means, Tiger.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was their tax liability for those 3 years' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'means you must have some pretty sizeable vehicles for carrying over losses from one year to the next, combined with extremely loose accounting' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so what about you? Did you get a refund for all of those years?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no different to the UK, though in the UK the favourite tax dodging vehicle is franchise fees' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i didn't, no' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I bet you know several people who did, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'There's only like 6 refundable tax credits in the US. So, it's not like they *got* that money.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they didn't 'get' that money' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but it's money they won't be paying later. seems baffling that they can offset losses one year against the next' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'losses shouldnt pass from one year to another....they should only count that year.....losses are the price you pay to do business and make the wrong decisions.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and we collectively wonder why our respective countries are so badly in hoc' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'so, basically, you want to do away with profits.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'any profit you make, you pay a fair tax on it.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wot riz sed' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My tax liability for this year is negative, too, actually' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're all taxed as we earn here, no chance really to get it wrong' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless your wages vary wildly from week to week' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'refund or not, 60% is still too high' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'My wages were $0 most weeks last year, so...yes :P' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'you're in cahoots with Big Business! For shame, Leinei, for shaaaaaaame!' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think of all the Mexican children that will starve because of YOUR tax rebate' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Leinei: 'OK, done. What next?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fascist! :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now picture Janet Napolitano nude' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'pfft! If you really wanna scare the children, picture her foolin' around with the bald fat guy from Borat.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'she only plays around with other fat ugly women, though, right?' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the men in her department she dreses in gimp suits and whips them' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or so it is alleged' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'to quote The Lorax..."that's a woman?!"' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(of things of that ilk)' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'big butch lesbian that is shite at her job, comes to mind' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'corporate tax is too high, should be lowered to 20%' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think ours already is 20%' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and no, it didn't make any difference' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ours is 35%' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is because you guys are anti business.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well duh' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialists' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Twister is such a good film.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'love the eating beef scenes.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'grass fed...yum, with mashed potatoes and brown gravy.' T3/r7/2013-02-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'nom nom nom' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I think it would be good for the world, if we managed to get people on Mars, to look around in person.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should spend $10 billion a year for the next 10 years to make it happen.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ack! Sequesterization causes asteroids!' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a Texas woman called 911 for some cigarettes....I say deliver them to her, and charge a $180 delivery fee.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I heard about an old woman who was blacklisted for using emergency numbers for taxis or cause her tv was out.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Modern boy who cried wolf, and solves itself.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the new office max and office depot merger will be called Depot Max.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'that merger has been a LONG time in the making' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps now they can finally compete against Staples.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'exactly. They've been getting their asses kicked for a long time. Especially internationally' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone please explain to me how furloughing 800,000 people will make permanent savings?' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'unemployment is less than 100 percent of your wage, plus it expires.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it only works if they furlough every year going forward' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British pound is touted as the next currency to suffer massive devaluation after the Japanese yen' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Didn't that already happen?' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's going down, but not by the amount being touted' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as you can imagine, i'd be ecstatic about that' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'It's nice, amazon.co.uk is already cheap :P' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it won't make it any cheaper, you realise' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inflation, paula' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Temporarily, it will. ' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'erm, inflation is pretty permanent' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'deflation will happen before inflation' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we haven't had deflation, except for i think 2 quarters in 2008 since the war, or longer' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'currency devaluation will not cause deflation' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Hah, a US tire maker slammed France, calling their workers lazy, and overpaid, and that they only work 3 hours in an 8 hour shift.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love free speech.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'apparently their workers are the ones that said they only work 3 hours, claim "its the French way"' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'hehe, http://www.duffelblog.com/ It's The Onion in military fatigues.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i read tat, it was great' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'now you know why we hate them so much' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'lol, Fort Bragg Officers Club is set to allow same-sex spouses to wear their spouse's military rank.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Hmm, big booze producers are watering down their booze! Buy moonshine from a local illegal producer! Get the real stuff!' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'actually, no they're not, Riz. They backed off after a bunch of angry drunks started to raise hell.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It doesnt mean the others are not doing it now :p' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'makers mark will just come out with a 'new' blend that uses less alcohol in a new package, and make less of the old bottle :)' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, 160 proof banana moonshine....yum.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'add rootbeer and icecream, and even better.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should end free trade....nothing is free.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'We should end Women's Suffrage...' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how, exterminate them all?' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Yes!!!! (j/k)' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'alternative: exterminate the misogynists' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no misogynists, only rabid feminists' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Hold on, let me look that word up' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Krache laughs out loud. T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'Well, its understandable though' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what is?' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'The vast majority of us grow up sucking on teets, only makes sense there are no misogynists' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'misogynists bandy the phrase "rabid feminists" to attack females with independent opinions and desires' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wishful thinking, zade' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Krache: 'I think we should be in an Amazonian state :PP' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you've been sucked in by the leftist agenda of destroying the family and denigrating the worth of women' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'look in the mirror when you say that' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I hope Texas allows commercial gambling in the state.....Texans spend $2.5 billion a year on texas border casinos, and it is growing.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'plz no, I like keeping my paycheck' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Twyst rapidly nods twice at The River Styx, in complete agreement. T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Chances are it will pass in the next election. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'big companies have already started advertising to pass it.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Lake Travis near Austin would be perfect for a few casinos, 5000 rooms or so, plus the games.' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't a big new casino just almost go bust in Atlantic City?' T3/r7/2013-02-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Software Development is still one of the best paying tech jobs in the US....' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I wonder why most of the tornadoes in the world happen in north america.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'obviously because god hates fags' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Daloran slaps The Jerk Fiendish. T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'or maybe because north america has the best weather reporting' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'china has more of them.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'Daloran: too much sarcasm?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Maybe, fiendish. Maybe.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps because of the wind patterns above north america and mostly flat land in the center of the continent lends itself to more tornados.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or perhaps because you only hear reports of NA ones, since you live in NA?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how many tornados in sweden? 1 in the last 20 years ?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'We get storms, but no tornados. ' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they haven been noticed in all major parts of the world, but most of them happen in tornado alley in north america....Texas to Canada.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'wind patterns, man' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'that shit's cray cray' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the largest tornado I ever witnessed in person was an F2....a couple of them while driving east from west texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a new shale oil field in West Texas has been found....the cline shale.....and it is expected to be one of the biggest oil fields in the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the field is expected to have about 300 billion barrels of recoverable oil, and will soon be producing about 700,000 barrels of oil per day, and nat gas liquids with the oil.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Oil is a crappy source of energy. If we just hardened up and payed for research into another tech we wouldn't have to constantly be desperately wishing to find a big deposit of oil, that ultimately gives us a fraction of a percent of the energy we'd get from all the thorium we're just throwing away.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil rules.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Aweyn | T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: '-.-' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Billy madison reference?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Hehe. "Old oil rules"' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'o i l' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'good stuff...provides lots of good jobs.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Jobs are overrated because capitalism doesn't work with majority automation. When upwards of 50% are unemployed, capitalism has no choice but to collapse. ' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'Yeah, without oil, we wouldn't have lube, and that would lead to terrible ha... uh. Yes.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'it is far better to automate, research limitless, free energy and implement a free economy.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sure, and then most of humanity can become Eloi.....:p' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Become what?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Eloi, try expanding your horizons, and read a book once in a while....I recommend the Time Machine, by H.G Wells.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I've been busy reading Asimov's series', but thank you for the recommendation.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the Eloi had all their cares taken care of...food, shelter, etc, and an aggressive humanoid evolved creature that lived underground would harvest some of them each month for food. :)' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Once we fully transition to renewable (solar) energy, I expect it too be cheaper than energy is today. Not free, cheaper. But that will probably take 100 years, and the transition will be painful.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I doubt energy will ever be cheap.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And possibly nuclear.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the cost of making solar panels is expensive.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Cheap is a relative term. It's quite cheap today, by comparative standards.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'silicon is expensive to produce.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Didn't say solar panels. And learning curves will solve that problem.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'CSP would be nice, but so far few people have been willing to invest in the technology.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'CSP could make solar power cheaper then natgas or coal.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Guess the mechanics of it is still unreliable' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not really, just no willpower to build them.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Solar at the moment isn't very efficient, and it'd take a lot of money to research and develop until it's cheap and efficient. I have doubts of solar's merits as the ultimate 'renewable' source though. For Earth-only energy I'd put money on nuclear thorium and unless we discover some infinite quantum energy (advanced) solar would be best for galactic collonies.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Concentrated Solar Power....uses the heat from the sun to heat up a gas to turn a turbine.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'If we don't nuke ourselves to pieces by then. It seems that no one ever wants to foot the bill to advance anything /sigh' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, the options are solar power, fusion or fission. Those are the only sources of power we have.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'so far' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a company build a 50 MW test CSP plant in Nevada.....and it worked perfectly...producing cheap power that supplies las vegas.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I wouldn't bet on some super new energy any time soon though.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they are now looking for more funding to build a $500 million CSP plant, to provide california with power.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Solar PV is getting cheaper quick. Won't be long until it is cheaper than natgas and coal.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Need storage to make it base power, tho.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'CSP uses mirrors to amplify the heat of the sun to turn a steam turbine...quite simple actually.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'just surprised no one wanted to do it before.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Would solar or nuclear have a better cost per watt, I wonder?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the aussies were going to build the largest CSP plant in the world, but canceled it after spending about $1 billion.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I long to see how quickly we'd progress if the US flipped its science and military budgets..' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the only way nuclear will be cheap is if new power plants have a standardized design that uses off the shelf parts, has less regulatory permiting issues, and goes to pebble bed reactor designs.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pebble bed reactors are ultra safe...they do not require human intervention to shutdown, or get too hot.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tunx: 'Canada for some reason felt the need to purchase 12 billion$ worth of second hand jets instead of investing into energy sector.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'maybe they want to turn them into low cost housing. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and use the jet engines to produce electricity.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tunx: 'doubt that Stephen harper probably wants them for his private council to fly to lobster parties lol' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it would be cheaper to just import some maine lobsters.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'Boo friggin hoo, Zero Dark Thirty banned in Pakistan' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, the new PS4 will have an AMD processor.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is that good or bad' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The PlayStation 4 will feature an X86-64 AMD Jaguar CPU with 8 cores, an AMD Radeon GPU and 8 gigabytes of unified system memory.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a recent poll of americans found 99% believed Iran to be a credible nuclear threat to USA' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which shows how much of a fanstasy Americans live in' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Nah, Iran wants to destroy israel.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'didn't all the pieces come from Dear Leader?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and I doubt iran even wants to destroy israel. They just want to keep the anti israel rhetoric going so that israel attacks them.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'makes you wonder why they support Hezbollah, who really do want to destroy Israel and are giving it the old college try.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'because hezbollah is willing to be the scapegoat.....if you could supply some money and weapons to a moron who will do what you wont, wouldnt you do it if you were iran ?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US has been using that strategy in the middle east for decades.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and south america.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the US also has a big military, a big economy, and a great spy setup.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'If the US was to leave Iran alone, there really wouldn't be an issue' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'dude, Iran wants to be the USA of the middle east. Embarassing blunders and naughty strongarming and all.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'iran doesnt care about the US, the US media is so gullible, that iran just loves to provoke it.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran wants to be left alone. Who have they invaded?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Who benefits from a belief that Iran is a dangerous (soon-to-be nuclear) power?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who benefits? Israel, USA, Saudi Arabia, Qatar' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bahrain' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Kuwait, Yemen, Iraq...probably Egypt, too.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds to me a little bit like bullying' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Especially Syria though, otherwise we would have invaded :p' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Iran wants the IS to leave them alone so that Iran can do in the Middle East what the US is derided for elsewhere.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'says who?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'that is an interesting spin' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not spin, i was waiting for an answer' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I meant Hans' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iran have shown no ambition to annex countries anywhere, i don't understand where that thought has come from' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'lets be real though, its mainly Israel' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they don't want to annex Israel, they just dislike the fact that Israel exists, and if you've read history, you find they largely have a point' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'israel was created at gunpoint.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'exactly, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you would hate it also if someone took your land and gave it to someone else.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yeah you are correct, I don't dispute that' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I am actually saying the same thing' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Iran is smart enough to let the Kuwaits, Afghanistans, and Iraqs of the region fuck everything up enough that a superpower comes in to fix things and maintain order. Iran's problem is entirely that it wants to be the superpower, instead of just another one of the fuckups in the region.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the reason Iran is the bogey man is because they are competing with Israel for local hegemony' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your comments have no basis, Hans, and smart of mass media bias' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We made a big mistake in removing Iraq from the equation.....saddam was evil, but he was the counterweight against iran.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'iraq was a USA pawn' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not entirely sure what they were doing invading' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'paying of their campaign contributors' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i fear that's probably true' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the only reason saddam invaded kuwait in the first place is because kuwait was drinking from the iraq milkshake. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'do you believe that Iran is 100% not at fault from the international "bullying" they have received regarding their nuclear program?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'yes' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are entitled to do what they're doing' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, Russia offered to build them a nuclear power plant, and run it for them with the iranians....iran said no.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're fiercely nationalist, of course they don't want russia doing it' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'Israel has a nucealr program' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's not even a secret' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'so if someone says they just want a butter knife but go out and buy 10" slicer and the best sharpener on the market, you believe them?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not an equivalent argument' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but it does make sense for iran to use nuclear power...they have one of the largest known deposits of uranium on the planet' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'sure it is. They are enriching uranium WAY above power-plant grade for no apparent reason that they can explain' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they could use nuclear to produce domestic energy, and sell the oil and gas to western countries.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'medical and instrumentation' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'not in the quantities they are producing' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Also not to weapons grade, apparently.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they aren't generating much volume at all' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well the argument is they could get weapons grade really quickly' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'more like weapon grade' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if they make a weapon THEN you'll have justification to attack them' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not until' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'seeing as how they don't have enough material' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'India and Pakistan, too. Both can glassinate Iran, but Iran's big bet on those two horses is that neither is at all interested if Iran joins in the party (so long as it stays out of their own little beef).' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'oh, definitely agree on that Tiger. I just don't trust them and their bat shit crazy "president"' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If making weapons is justification to attack countries, I see a lot of wars coming....' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it's easy to label him as crazy when you listen to the media' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'their ramping up of production is more likely a response to the overwhelming force of threats that they're getting, much like what nutjob NKorea is doing' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'have you ever heard a speech of his?' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're no more nutjobs that Obama' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or the Israeli nutjob' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'its easy to label him as crazy if you listen to HIM, unedited' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or the Saudi nujobs' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Ahmadinejad seems to be consistently translated or interpreted in whatever way makes him look like a genocidal maniac' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'Obama knows better than to deny the holocaust. Ahmedinjihad, not so much.' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'ahmadinejad is the iranian version of iraqi bob. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dinnerjacket is not the highest power in Iran and doesn't have his finger on the nukes' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as you would realise if you'd studied Iran :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Wooo, Texas Pro Gun groups have started handing out double barrel shotguns to poor people in dangerous neighborhoods for protection. The local police support the idea.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'This doesnt make sense.....80% of the cod sold in the US is caught in Norwegian waters, and packed in China, and then exported to the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmmm, a 4 lb goldfish was found in lake tahoe nevada.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, a new oil shale has been found in California, 14,000 feet under some of the most fertile farmland in the country....the test wells show about 16 billion barrels of recoverable oil from that one small location.....as the test wells expand, it the barrels should increase also.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Oh yay, we're taking about oil again..' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I don't know why we spend so much time fighting and bickering and killing over what is essentially the most inefficient and useless energy source in the universe.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'because oil rules.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'your job depends on it right now.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'm 17. I don't have a job. If I did though, it'd be basically worthless compared to the whole of the human race having infinite energy.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, in that case, go get a job and pay some taxes instead of whining about the evils of oil....get some experience first, then you have earned the right to complain. :)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Ooh. The induced insecurity card again. Cool.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'm actually heading out and looking at several this week. Thankfully, I'm not in the USA so can't can't on most of my taxes going to fancy guns.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'guns are good.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'What for? All they use them for lately is international bullying.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so ?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Solving hunger and energy crises would be good too, if you were willing to relocate the cash.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hunger is all politics, nothing else.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and there is no energy crisis, plenty of energy, just no willpower to do what needs to be done.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'And what needs to be done?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'drill baby drill !' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Obviously you don't have very high estimates of the States' life either. Cool' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh please, we will be here longer than others. :)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'm fairly sure you just come here to say controversial stuff to get a response. That's fine, but whatever.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides, I am all for renewables, the problem is the greenie meanies are against it.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Do you have a diffferent kind of greens there?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Our are famous for fishing restrictions. Not much else.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A big company tried to build a solar plant in Texas, and some greenie meanies kept delaying it with lawsuits because it would have required a high power line to connect it to a major electricity line 5 miles away in West Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so the solar farm was cancelled.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Oh well, as long as they're helping the planet... what was the line, it would endanger birds?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, think it was because high power energy lines cause cancer in west texas lizards or something.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'who the hell knows.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a $10 billion CSP plant was cancelled in Australia because of lawsuits by greenie meanies also.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'wut. Lol. A lot of people here abhor wind turbines because.. um.. Birds' mating or...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'there was something, I'm sure.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I didn't hear about that. I need a decent news feed.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'this was a couple years ago I think.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'my point is, there is a lot of support by regular moderate people for green energy, but the radicals get in the way of it being built....they are not just anti oil, but anti energy period.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so, because how the laws are set up, it is easier to get permits for oil and gas energy projects then it is for green energy.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'so oil and gas it is until things change.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Why don't things change?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'lack of imagination.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it is hard to compare a good oil and gas job and an industry that earns trillions to a new green sector that fluctuates year to year, and most companies fail.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I wouldn't say lack of imagination. Lack of will to risk change, or short term difficulties, or god forbid paying for anything.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I've seen more people who would make better politicians on the internet than I've seen in government.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: '/sigh' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas produces the most wind power of all the US states, and we are proud of that fact.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Wind is doable.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We produce the most oil and gas, and the most wind.....two sides of the same coin :)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Aren't you just the biggest state? :P' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Alaska is 2.5x larger then Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Oh, yeah. Alaska isn't nearly as inhabited though, is it?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'about 700k people, compared to almost 30 million in Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but anyways, oil and gas will be the major part of any energy plan for at least the next 50 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'At least in the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'or Canada, or Mexico, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'That sounds reasonable. I can see a lot of Eurasia going nuclear. I'd like to stay a bit more optimistic though.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Like.. 48 -.-' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would love to see nuclear increase its 18% share of US power generation....to around 40%' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'As long as it was done right this time, and not like the last time.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'That would be fantastic.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Err, last time?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the nuclear power plants that were built in the 50s to 70s were unique designs for each plant....there was no standard design, so each one required parts to be made specifically for that plant.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that increased the cost for each plant dramatically.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Ah, yeah. Things are like that in the start though. I'd like to see effort put into standardising them, and developing a safer system. A lot of people hear 'nuclear' and immediately think bombs and fallout and stuff. To narrowminded people nuclear=evil, so it'd be hard to gain momentum for it.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'In Australia it's nearly taboo to bring it up. We have massive deposits of uranium (I think it is) but we blantently refuse to use it.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the nuclear power design companies today are petitioning the govt to allow a standardized nuclear power plant design to keep costs lower.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Generation 4 nuclear power designs are much safer and cheaper then the previous ones. By far.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'australia is the largest exporter of uranium. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Good news. I still haven't huge amounts of hope, but it's a start. I read about designs with ice plugs or inately non-fissile fuel that shut down automatically rather than meltdown, so that's cool.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'We're so shit >.>' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'for the last 25 years, the US has been getting its nuclear power plant fuel from Russia, we pay to dismantle Russian nuclear missiles, and we get the nuclear material to power our reactors. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'kind of a roundabout deal.....we pay the russians to dismantle the missiles, and the russians buy uranium from australia which is then shipped to the US fia freighter. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'there was a mutual agreement to take 20 tons of weapons grade plutonium each and use it for energy production between US and Russia :3 ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Makes perfect sense :3' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Though Russian plant technicians said sodium fires were treated as no big deal :|' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'And India has thorium plants.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'm outta info..' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'thorium is good, but govts want nuclear weapons.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'That's slanted as a plus for thorium, but it doesn't really consider govt. funding.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: '/sigh' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there is enough thorium deposits that are known to produce electricity for 300% of the worlds needs for almost 10,000 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There is about 100 years of known uranium deposits on land for the same purpose' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'It's practiaclly nearly as renewable as solar, but no one cares. It's frustrating..' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'is there much funding from private co's? Or are they too wrapped up in space exploration?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you added the uranium in seawater though, the known uranium reserves would jump to 1000 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and if you recycled the spent fuel, it would last almost forever....losing about 5% each recycle process.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'right now, only 2 countries recycle nuclear spent fuel....france and russia.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'French-Russian master race. At the risk of sounding childish, how do we change things?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'increase oil to $200 a barrel.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Wouldn't that happen on its own with depletion.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Though your new shale discoveries would get in the way for a bit..' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'at least 50 years. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US has shitloads of shale oil.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the most in the world actually.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'interestingly enough though, Venezuela has the most heavy oil in the world.....about 1.2 trillion barrels in the orinoco field.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'is heavy oil anything like heavy water' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, heavy oil is just oil with a high sulphur content.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Daloran: 'ah. much less interesting' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'd honestly like to see the US collapse a little. With all the secession bids it doesn't seem so unreasonable.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'doubtful.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I can dream' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Republic of Texas!' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Do texans actually consider themselves seperate from the US?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, our saying is.....Like a Whole other country!......and Everything is bigger in Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Lol, Texas' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'besides, if Texas went on its own...we would take some states with us....New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, maybe a few more.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'What would practically change?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'also, would you expect to be called Texas the country?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hell no, Republic of Texas !' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas was a republic before it joined the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Naturally. But the joining states wouldn't make up a new name.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They would be joining the republic of texas as states, no more.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Wouldn't there be Texas the state and Texas the Republic then?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'And would it be all redneck conservative? I could see the seperation of values as benefitial.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'whatchoo talking about willis...no rednecks in Texas....' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Perhas that wasn't the right word. Isn't it very red though?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more purple then red.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'more detailed election maps showed that basically every state is. ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Hypothetically then, what kind of policies would be in the new Republic of Texas?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'economically diverse, and fiscally conservative.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Let's pretend for a second that I'm 17, and I have no idea what you just said.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'hypothetically.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a wide variety of industries, and a balanced budget.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Doesn't every country aim for a balanced budget?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not really' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'debt is quite useful.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'In what way' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Except pretty debt clocks' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, debt is used to reb up the economy, keep things balanced.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'rev that is' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I don't quite get how losing money can be good for the economy..' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'a good intro macro course could help disabuse you of the most common fallacies in econs...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I was thinking that. Could you suggest any good books for it?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'maybe krugman's macroeconomics?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Thanks. I'll look into it.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doesn't beat actually taking a course though, unless you're well-motivated and prepared.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I expected that. I'm not really in a position to take proper courses, and I dunno if economics study is likely to be that important to me at the moment. ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'well, first you can study a lot of math, although a lot of it won't be directly related, better problem solving skills help.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I quite like maths :3 I've my sights on university eventually, but until then I'll look at self study stuff like that. In between a job with texes to keep Rizgoth happy..' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'if you study hard beforehand, you can finish uni a lot earlier and save money. Depending on the institution.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Australian unis seem different. I'd have to look into it, since I don't know much. My choices at the moment are to go to uni or not starve to death, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'doesn't australia have better support for things like this unlike crazy america?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sonshi ducks defensively. T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Theoretically. There's welfare payouts that 'everyone' is entitled to, but I don't qualify. ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'The tests look at parental income, and happen to ignore expenses.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'in america you can get really deep in debt just from college (uni) tuition...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'The same still probably happens here, even if there is help for fees.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'some people spend a couple of years in degree mills racking up tons of debt only to flunk out or run out of cash/loans...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'd simply have problems with eating daily, though ^^' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I particularly like the way that uni is a place to increase profit rather than knowledge :D' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'emote sighs' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'well, that worked...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sonshi: 'depends on institution...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'but the motivation is in the hands of employers.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Aweyn flip T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Aweyn flips T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Lol. Soz. I get it now.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Did you know there are 33 countries who fly the 'red, white and blue'?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Boba Felt: 'none like MURICA!' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Liberia's flag is like America's...' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the movie Frank Miller's "Sin City", the first section: "The Customer is always Right", did "the Customer" get what she wanted, or was she double-crossed.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The hours in a day will be cut by 2% if the sequester happens.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: '"Thanks Obama!"' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Feds move to disarm army veterans' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If we froze the federal budget at current levels, and only allowed increases based on inflation only.....and we could balance the US budget in 7-8 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if we had done it 10 years ago, the budget would have been balanced in 5 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'assumes growth above inflation' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'man why dont we all just elect you then since you got it all figured out.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'You could balance the cash flow accounts, not the gaap accounts :)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Would you vote for me ?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Riz got Texas Rep!' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'er for' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The River Styx: 'Well, since I don't think you know 2 shits about what you're talking about, No.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'aw, the feelings are mutual :)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that puts him 2 steps ahead of your existing lot' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'I think I could get 90% of people who know me to vote for me' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'not so sure about the rest of the world' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i couldn't, but people are pretty stupid generally, so what can you do' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Yes they are....considering most of them do not even bother to vote.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lots of casino's going bust, apparently' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'without an explanation, seems you are not sure' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you need explaining tonight, zade?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'afternoon here' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'casinos ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smartarse comments will not earn you a higher grade' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Casinos going bankrupt is not important, maybe even good (since they're parasites)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they're no more parasitic than lawyers' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or politicians, or bankers' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are different types of parasites ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'different in that their parasitism is optional as opposed to compulsory?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is that worse?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'most politicians are lawyers.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or bankers' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'worse if the damage done by their existence is worse' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well that's patently not the case' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when Casinos encourage crime or support crime, casinos are bad' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how do casinos encourage or support crime that is any worse than what politicians do?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Casinis are parasites that do not provide a positive worth commensurate to the damage the Casinos do in ruining lives' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Casinos are optional' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, compared to politicians they are not worse' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not everything in life is subject to being necessary' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and certainly not by your measure' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lao: 'except chocolate' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'politicians or leaders are required, not an optional' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's your opinion' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you babble inane nonsense -- since everything in life is subject to justification at some level' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not by you it isn't' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are plenty of things that are less justified than casinos, they provide entertainment to people' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'entertainment that causes ruination is not decent entertainment' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'casinos don't cause ruination' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people cause ruination' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that misdirection won't whitewash' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think i see your problem, zade, you see sensible comment and you are so paranoid that you think it's misdirection' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'casinos add (and abet) extra ruination to the ruination that victims and perpetrators cause' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best you go after bars and mcdonalds too' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and by your logic, "all manner of evil is not evil" if the deceptive bandy the misdirecting faulty whitewash: "people cause ruination" ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"SOMEpeople cause ruination" ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people are evil, objects are not' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"some abominations cause ruination" - example: the casinos' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nobody forces people to go to casinos and/or ruin themselves, neither does anyone force people to go to bars and become alcoholics' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are not evil in and of themselves' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you are weak willed, then stay away from them' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news alert: nobody is allowed to go to a casino because zade has the self-control of a serial rapist' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that is similar to the nonsense of saying "drug-addicts are not forced to get more drugs" (but they are forced by their addiction, and the wicked exploit that addiction)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'casino's are not chemically addictive' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade does not gamble irl -- which should be obvious from the Zade style of aardplay -- minimise risks T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then you have absolutely no capital invested in damning you're doing' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'casinos are psychologically addictive' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm riiighhht' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade avoids committing crimes, yet i damn some criminals T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so your logic is faulty' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my logic is entirely intact' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would deny perfectly legal entertainment to the masses because of the abuse of a minority ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you would get on well with the mayor of nyc' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'by extrapolation, your logic infered that to condemn crimes, those condemning must also be invested criminals' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'running a casino isn't a crime' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'your logic infered that to condemn gamblig, those condemning must also be invested gamblers' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'moral crimes' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you want to ban something you don't do, have not been affected by, you just don't approve of it' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'd be like me banning pop music' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so according to you, folk are supposed to wait until a plague hits them before doing anything to prevent the plague' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pop music forces people to break the law, gives young people a delusional sense of reality and self image' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'casinos are not a plague' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some prefer pre-emtive action' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i suggest you go out and ban everything, then' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some opine that Casinos are a serious plague' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas is going to authorize casinos soon.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, they're also the sort of people who believe in the pre-trial rapture' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'moderation is good, no need for your inane faulty logic to incite and encourage wholesale anarchy and depravity when you lose an argument' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'moderation is perfectly sensible, banning stuff you find objectionable for vapid faux-moral reasons isn't' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but you went insane and suggested banning everything' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much anything could be painted bad under the sort of vacuous reasoning you were giving' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: '-50' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would legalise all the hard drugs too, at least you could get control of the supply then and take the criminals out of the equation' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think colorado might have screwed itself up' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Sierra Club Protestors calling for One-Child policy in the US' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why is it that UN gave themselves immunity from any kind of reperations for giving 8000 people nw' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'woops' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was it, UN gives themselves immunity from any kind of prosecution or damages as a result of their base leaking sewage into the water supply in Haiti, causing Choldera' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'infected 600,000 people' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course, the UN immunises themself against any form of criticism, even the UN convention on human rights isn't worth the paper it's written on' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, the UN did not cause those infections, since according to your logic, the UN is inanimate, like casinos are inanimate, and "people cause infections"' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(reparations) (repercussions)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't talk crap (if you excuse the pun)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and don't belittle serious issues just because you failed to convince others of your nanny-state foibles' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if that UN base leaked sewage because of the earthquakes, blame the diseased haitians for using the toilet facilities at the UN' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has corporate responsibility for the leak' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'had it been an international business, they would be held criminally responsible. UN is ducking the issue because it believes itself to be a global government and therefore immune from all rules' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it should at least pay damages' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or make reparations' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, the defectiveness of your logic is more obvious when "(tyrannous yet legal) Government" is substituted for "Casinos" - (that "government" is not evil, look at that "government" as a "casino", and tell yourself (the lie) that "people are evil" but never the Government and certainly not the UN ) [Disclaimer: Zade disagrees with the Tigernuts equivocation and faulty logic]`[ ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you can't honestly equivocate around evil institutions (such as Casinos, or maybe the incompetent UN) through the misdirectws use of labels' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(misdirected)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'hanlon's razor' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am kinda wishing Sarah Palin was president now.....:p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'said no one ever' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'isn't she a liability?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'How so ?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because she is uninformed?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'she would open up all 50 states to resource development.....reduce the cost of energy in the US, and millions of manufacturing jobs can come back.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'something like that' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'so maybe she should be energy secretary instead' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd rather an uninformed president that understood the constitution that could be informed by experts around them' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'If obama would just open up federal lands that have vast resources of energy underneath, we could have a golden age in the US again.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it would last generations.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'like GB II?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'd never have a golden age with a socialist government' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we don't have a socialist government' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're working on it' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Well, you might have a golden age compared to a previous or later socialist gov't' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'maybe a golden age of repression and surveillance' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'we are working on an oligarchy or plutocracy in addition to a theocracy' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are over 16 billion barrels in a newly found shale oil deposit in California, but chances are it wont be extracted because most of the oil is under federal and state land.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at the moment you have a left of centre, totalitarian-leaning government that is growing and centralising itself at a very fast rate' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'political discourse in America is sooo far right that anything even centrist is seen as far left' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's more complicated than that' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'its that simple really' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even describing politics in two-dimensions misses some nuances' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'obamacare = the republicans reubuttal plan to hilarycare in the 90s' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'obamacare - we didn't get the healthcare we wanted, so lets wanker everyone' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'in the spirit of bipartisanship' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'because it is impolite to admit that the right is batshit crazy' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bipartisanship needs to die' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the right isn't the right, the left isn't the left' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are very few true republicans left in the republican party' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it has all become a depressing game' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just like there is very few liberals left in the democrat party' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they were never really political opposites' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well you're right politics is on a spectrum' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a spectrum' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a multi-dimensional vector' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the few dimensions you express it with, the less accurate or helpful description it becomes' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fewer*' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the mass media and the general public use 1-dimension, at very least you should be using 2 or 3' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise you miss any form of nuanced stance' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it is hard to be nuanced in the current political atmosphere' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then take yourself out of the atmosphere, put a political gas mask on' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'then you end up in the posiiton of David Brooks and other non-partisan "spread the blame" wankers' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'it takes real mental jiu jitsu to find equal fault in both "parties"' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's so much blame you can spread it equally (joke copyright Neddy Seagoon 1956)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not difficult when you understand that they're the same animal, or have been for much of the last 100 years' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'needs your mind to be awake' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'they share similar aspects' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'doesn't make them the same animal' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are influenced and paid for by the same animal' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'otherwise the extreme fighting would be even more comical than it already is' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why ultimately not much changes' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US still needs to focus on energy, medical research and development, and tech r/d, robotics, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the US is focusing on energy' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to do that, riz, you need to put to bed some foreign and domestic policy issues first' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'No reason why 10s of millions of new jobs cant be created.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'otherwise they'll just keep distracting you' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Start using real nutrition science instead of 2nd rate statistics, and the health care costs will plummet :)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a corporate interest in not doing that, Tintin' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so it won't happen' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not talking about health care costs, I am talking new types of medical devices, xray tech, etc.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'research and dev into new treatments.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there was a convention today about mining asteroids' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Well, yes, it would largely destroy the current incarnation of food industries, pharma, health care and so on' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the legal ramifications of mining asteroids has never been solidified because they believed there'd be one world government by the time it was feasible' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does that tell you?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'who is this "they" that believes in a unified world government?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Nevertheless, it would be relatively straightforward and save so much resources you could fight 3 extra wars and still save money' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'many people, uludar' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'reduce the cost of energy in the US by half, and get those natgas using chemical manufacturing factories back in the US....specifically Texas....since no other state except perhaps NJ is smart enough to build them.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'large banking cartels, U.N, many politicians and political families (such as the Bushs, Obama, Kissengers, Rockefellers, Sunsteins, Soros's)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'both of your political parties' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the EU, and all of it's founders/supporters' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the price of natgas in the US is already less then half the world price....and chemical companies are flocking back to the US.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'various political activists, environmental activists such as Al Gore' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Halving energy cost isn't very realistic, but at least you could insource the energy production again, given a dozen years' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We dont need a dozen years, it is happening right now.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama is about to pass an executive order banning any new power generation that emits above 1kg(? will check amount) per MW' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it HAS been happening in the last 5 years, but on private land.....we need to open up federal land.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'then things will really start rocking.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'uk on track for home-produced energy shortages by 2018' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'By now, I think only the very gullible or uninformed believe Obama has energy independence as a high priority.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has no intention of being energy independant' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Uludar: 'we're on track for energy independence in 5 years, regardless of federal land use. energy prices in the US are dirt cheap compared to pretty much anywhere else in the world on a national level. Our economy is built around the current prices. Halving them (or doubling them) will have drastically negative impacts' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama's brief is to collectivise what he can, bankrupt the rest' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, considering the feds get 12.5 % of all energy produced on federal lands, you would think they would want more resource development :p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tintin: 'Romney's 8 year plan was rather on the optimistic side, but 12 could be done, I think.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the new regulations would allow natgas power generation' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not oil or coal though' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'the federal lands meme is not entirely true' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK's credit rating just got dropped' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that'll fuck up Gideon's plans' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'credit rating agencies are full of shit' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it's purely speculative to try and gauge more money out of higher rates' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not really unexpected though, we're pretty much insolvent' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'govts set the rates on their own debt....not private ranking agencies.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The US bought about $50 billion in UK debt last year.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'with what?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'with our own debt :p' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all fucking ridiculous' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dumb but happy or smart but sad?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the big defect of "one world government" is that a few may totally screw up everything oppressively bigtime' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with multiple world governments, there is a chance that a few nations or countries won't screw things badly (through greed, incompetence, bad ideology, sadistic desires, religion, bad economics, etcetera)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Rizgoth platform, a spendthrift of natural resources, does not believe in preserving reserves for the future. The world requires to learn to do with less, and feeding the current concupiscence of increasing usage of natural resources is a recipe for mass genocide when something runs out, and there are no reserves.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'how will the starting of using resources today that will last 50 or more years, and open up new resources ongoing hurt the future ?' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in the future we will have new tech that opens up even more types of resources.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if people had removed their heads from their asses 15 years ago, the alaska pipeline would be full of oil today, instead of only being 1/3 full today.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'currenly, the 7 billion humans on this planet require that things don't go wrong -- and worse, the current desire by some is to increase energy and resource usage, with the consequence that population shall increase and the situation become more precarious.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which is more painful 8 billion starving to death, or 4 billion starving (but not to death) -- harder to feed 8 billion than 4 billion when things go wrong' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and all those riches being pulled from the ground -- so few are benefiting that wisdom dictates to leave those resources in the ground until more than 95% become rich and not the 5% or less becoming rich (as currently)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and the resources in the federal lands -- if all the monies and profits went to the taxpayer, there may be some partial justification for developing those resources, but the greedy are going to want all those profits to go to the few that are already extremely rich (and pay as little tax as possible -- let the poor pay the taxes they say - greed, crass greed)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich are rich enough, don't feed the greed' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and don't count on imaginary future technologies before they appear -- they may not appear, or they may be pre-empted by natural disasters caused by overpopulation caused by unrestrained exploitation of (dwindling) resources' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are so many humans on the planet, mayhaps get used to paying humans not to work, and if you want to work, you pay for the privilege (by supporting those that don't work)' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there are several natural disasters that may cause world wide famines: asteroid comet hits, changed weather patterns, magnetic pole wandering, CMEs, resilient pestilences hitting crops ' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'asteroids are a myth.' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'in soviet russia, asteroid makes myth about you' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'how much damage is a football pitch size asteroid likely to do if that actually hit planet earth instead of missing by 30,000 km' T3/r7/2013-02-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Sun is spewing out billions of tons of CME materials -- a conjecture is where does that material condense and does that material form comets and asteroids' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A new type of eyeglasses made for healthcare workers has an interesting side effect.....it also cures color blindedness.....in people who have problems seeing color' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'How?' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no idea, but it apparently works.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Do you have a link?' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the new glass was created by a neurobiologist.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it doesnt cure it, but it fixes it while the eyeglasses are worn.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/02/22/17046479-surprise-side-effect-new-specs-may-fix-color-blindness?lite' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'regardless, it is pretty cool.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I would assume it changes the wavelength of some colors you cannot see into colors you can see. Probably only works for a subset of color blindness.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Yeah. The article said it boost red-green at the cost of blue-yellow. It doesn't seem like a miracle solution, but it's still quite interesting.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Well, it is a step in the right direction and perhaps the first step at that.....' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not like scientists are jumping to the head of the line to cure colorblindedness.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'But I am sure it effects millions of people worldwide.....who would enjoy seeing more clearly.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Perhaps with a powered light source you could even supplement the sacrificed colours. It seems expensive though, and colour blindness might not be 'worth it'.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'That said, the idea of coloured lenses to help is quite an old one. As back as far as 1800.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Pretty much all men are color blind to some degree. Not that it matters, color blindness is a relative term. All dogs are color blind compared to humans, but they don't care :D' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I was just thinking, you could probably go your entire life without even knowing you were. I personally don't think it's so important.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If color blindness was important for our survival, evolution (or $deity) would have gotten rid of it millenia ago.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Do you mean 'wasn't'?' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'No' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, yes :D' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I forgot not to avoid using double negatives.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Nice and confusing. I think you mean if it was dangerous there wouldn't be colour blindness?' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Yea?' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Right.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Okay. That makes sense. Evolution doesn't go out of it's way to change anything unless it's important.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Or mattered for any other reason. Maybe it mattered for women, since they historically were gatherers more than men.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I wouldn't mind testing greyscale bionic eyes.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Maybe women needed to see the difference between types of fruit, while men didn't need color vision to kill a wooly mammoth. Just a theory I invented now.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'That makes sense. Another theory was that colour was used to detect flushes in other people to gauge emotions, which could be more prominent in a mothering/social type role.' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'someone asked last night who it was that wanted one world government and I made a flailing answer. A more cogent response would be to take a look at the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission, their members, their founders, and the people they were involved with' T3/r7/2013-02-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) SnailBot Anaristos: 'the only reason one wouldn't want one world government is because they enjoy territorial strife...' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only reason you wouldn't want to be raped in the street is the risk of getting dog poo on your shoes' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this was a very nice headline, "Firearms Companies Restricting Sales to Government Agencies in Areas That Restrict Gun Rights"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Any Australians who would like to share their views with the upcoming election?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'australians have an upcoming election?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my advice would be to put the one that fights against globalism, avoid anyone who has had any contacts with Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, the Bildeberg group, or the CFR or other Round-Table related organisations' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know your Labour party has been a disaster' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know much more about it than that' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'All I can really say for certain is there's one for Prime Minister. I'm new..' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'the Liberals are a disaster too.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'To be fair, I haven't seen a lot of politics that isn't.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'Australian politics is very short-sighted' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Parliament is comparable to a playground, where everyone just calls each other names.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'How so?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'do you see any long term policies in recent years?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see lots of destructive long term policies out there' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no constructive ones though, though this could be because they don't get reported internationally' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'You know more about my politics than I do ._.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'australian politics? not really' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know they've had bad policies on gun control, on carbon taxation, and have stupidly handed over tons of strategic resource ownership over to the chinese' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I can whole heartedly confirm the Chinese thing. I think the carbon tax is an absolutely stupid solution compared to actually developing clean energy, and I don't know much about our gun control. It's been really strict since a shooting, like, 40 years ago. It's worked well but it seems to be slipping. ' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it never worked' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'didn't work in the UK either' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't work in the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'People like shooting people. I'm proud to be human :D' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'who cares, I love australian healthcare' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'must be better than British healthcare then' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'is the british one free?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'psuedo-free' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing's free' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'welfare is.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'welfare is not free' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'to the recipient.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'free-for-me' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not free for you' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'in what sense.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Well, technically, I think it's considered a kind of 'loan', and it's expected to be payed back in taxes, or something.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Theoretically..' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'not centrelink.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'can't comment on your specifics, but here you pay for it through your taxation, and being subjugated to medical tyranny and control' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'here if you're a welfare recipient, you get free $' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that $ isn't free' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'when the recipient does not have to pay anything for it, it is free.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that $ comes from your neighbours, your friends, your family, people you don't know, and in the case of current situation, you're stealing it from your children's generation' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'it's still free for the recipient.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it shows the same short-sightedness that people were complaining that the government were guilty of not more than 10 minutes ago' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'are you insinuating that I am a welfare recipient?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's never free, it might be free in upfront $ cost to you, but it's not free to all, it's not free from cost in terms of society cost' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'I never mentioned my position on welfare. I am just stating that it is indeed free for the recipient.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and i'm telling you why it isn't' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'you're telling me it's not free for society' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'smoking cigarettes have not up front cost' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'you're not telling me how it is not free for the recipient.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'to the recipient it's not free in terms of control' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'It is called 'debate', but I think this is going a bit far for an argument of the definition of 'free'...' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'define control.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you sign up for welfare, you are entering a contractual obligation where you have signed over control of certain conditionality to the person paying the welfare, in this case your government' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'I wouldn't know. I don't get welfare.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'my knowledge is from the welfare recipients I know.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you claim welfare believing it's 'free', then you're basically responsible for shitting on the aspirations of everyone else' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'it seems like you are a very principled man.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'shouldn't you be digging a water well or revitalising education in some part of Africa' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not allowed to be principled because i'm not digging a well in Africa?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'it's actually a genuine question.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would i be digging wells abroad when it's my own country that's in trouble?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'so what are you doing to help save your country' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Oh, god, what have I done...' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'getting the word out, taking part in activism against bad stuff, and preparing for myself and my family' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"learning"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'interesting.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have some interesting insight for you' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I am interested..' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in 1971, Gary Allen wrote of 14 signposts (warnings) to look for to show the Republic (USA) had been lost to corporate interests pushing socialism as a means of dispossessing the people of their rights and wealth' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is 1971, mind' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll type em out. it'll take a minute and it'll be wordy, so don't whinge about a block of red text on your screen :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Red's my favourite colour :D' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1. Restrictions on taking money out of the country and on the establishment or retention of a foreign bank account by an American citizen.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '2. Abolition of private ownership of hand guns' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '3. Detention of individuals without judicial process' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '4. Requirements that private financial transactions be keyed to social security numbers or other government identification so that government records of these transactions can kept and fed into a computer' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '5. Use of compulsory education laws to forbid attendance at presently existing private schools' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '6. Compulsory non-military service' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '7. Compulsory psychological treatment for non-government workers or public school children' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '8. An official decleration that anti-Communist/anti-Socialist organizations are subversive and subsequent legal action taken to suppress them' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '9. Laws limiting the nimber of people allowed to meet in a private home' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '10. Any signifgicant chant in passport regulations to make passports more difficult to obtain or use' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '11 Wage abnd price controls, especially in a non-wartime situation' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '12. Any kind of compulsory registration with the government where individuals work' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '13. Any attempt to restrict freedom of movement within the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '14. Any attempt to make a new major law by executive decree (that is, put into effect, not merely autorized as by existing executive orders)' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go see how many of those have already happened, and it's most of them' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'only if you have a paranoid confirmation bias' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'e-h 20' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sneak: 'oops' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it cannot be a confirmation bias' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the author was a historian who had researched what was going on in his time, how it had got there, the people doing it' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and was making very specific predictions based on writings of those involved, their plans and policies' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what he did in laying out his theories and making predictions is no different to a scientist taking data, having theories, making models that fit the data, then making predictions to test the model against' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'confirmation bias is merely taking individual things out of context that seperately confirm a hypothesis. In this case it's wishful thinking' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'when you talk about society, there are a vast number of factors. Unlike a lab experiment, you can't create conditions where you can fix enough factors to measure effects of different stimulus, so you can only take a broadbased approach' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I'm totally lost. America's about as capitalist as it gets, and isn't basically everything there in 'corporate interest'?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sw' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'And how could socialism possibly benefit a corporation.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: '?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ahhhhhhHhhhh' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it benefits a small group of people' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'best i can suggest is go download/buy/read/pirate a copy of "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" by Gary Allen because it is a very small book' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are more formal studies by political scientists, but this is a condensed, easy to read version' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Doesn't capitalism already benefit a small group of people. The whole 1% thing. It's already geared to have wealth leak upwards.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'like something even you can wrap your head around?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'But I'll certainly do that.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry Dagnir, we're wearing Troll-proof earmuffs today' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, capitalism and socialism aren't mutually exclusive, you know' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go read it, then comment on how shit you think it is' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of course not' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the key word though that explains the link is "Monopoly"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is a world of difference between "capitalism" and "free market"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I had an info graphic. I'll see if I can find a link..' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'http://www.sovietunit.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Capitalism-Socialism-Communism.png' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'that's marx?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Haven't a clue :)' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'I've a wiki run on all the forms of economy planned for a while though.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'looks like it. i might be wrong about the exact author, but it's outdated and idealized' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Everyone has an ideal dream for society. ' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'it doesn't really fit into the argument here' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'since it's an old-school utopian communist theory' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that old-school utopian communist theory was penned by bankers' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Marx and his peers was championed and bankrolled' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'were*' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'Hm. Outta curiosity, how would you guys optimally want to see the world?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i vote social democrat. socially liberal, economically conservative' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'strong, small sovereign countries with a high degree of local-level democracy, to allow disparate viewpoints to find happiness. Small government, strong communities, International oversight only to oversea/ward against wars' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personally economically conservative, politically libertarian, socially lessez-faire' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'altho liberal and conservative mean different things in europe and the states' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The most long lived society was the old egyptians, so maybe we should build pyramids? :P' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that different, liberal means the same thing in USA and Europe, and in both cases the modern interpretation is largely an antithesis of it's traditional meaning' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'our neo-liberal right-wing party would be far left in the states' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Liberal and conservative means nothing and are only words used by politicians.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's why the meaning changes, Ranrr. Washington was a liberal' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Lincoln was a conservative' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Better to say what you mean instead of using relative terms.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Obama/Soros and crew claim they're liberal, whereas they're clearly not' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'they're center-right' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, Ranrr, had lengthy argument with some friends about the uselessness of a 1-dimensional description of a political view, i.e the left-right paradigm' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Left and right are also pointless terms.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you need at the very least 2 dimensions to describe a viewpoint, and preferably more' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I am extremely left on some issues and extremely right on some others.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, even one axis describes some aspects. i usually think in two tho' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'notice Dagnire jumps in with "center right" whereas not 5 minutes ago he used at least 2 axis to describe himself' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i'm glad he agrees' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'yeah, i just said so' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so projecting onto a 2-dimensional axis, Dagnir is in the socialist, libertarian quadrant, i'm in the conservative libertarian quadrant. Obama is in the socialist authoritarian quadrant, the GOP are in the conservative autoritarian quadrant. Even these descriptions aren't accurate as they don't reflect the interdependence between chunks' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Obama is not a socialist, he's right wing.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Seltsimees Dagnir nods at Ranrr. T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in some respects he appears more extreme right than Bush, but I believe that's your bad projection onto inadequate axis talking again' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'There are no socialist politicians in the US. At least not in any position of power.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'like, seriously. he could be a socialist by american standards, but compared to european socialists he's extreme right wing' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, you're looking at huge tax rises to fund social welfare and increasing federal government' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'why not complain about defence spending?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'You mean tax rises to pay for stupid debt caused by stupid wars?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not only, but including' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's where your extreme right comes in, he's continuing all the foreign wars' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Well, technically, the congress, not the president, decides on that.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'supposedly, but not the case anymore' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yeah, hence the technically.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftNXx_tHrKg' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wreck-It Roninleader: 'Government gets rich = good, Insurance companies get rich = bad?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'the former is beneficial for everyone' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, not really because they would spend it on a cruise missile that blows up a pakistani school' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'but in theory it's better' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wreck-It Roninleader: 'I really fail to see what role government should be having in medical care.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, it works for everyone else and keeps the costs way lower' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you could equally argue, what role do insurance companies have in medical care' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the answer to both questions should be "none", it's health practicioners that provide healthcare, not government or insurance companies' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'so you're arguing for no insurance whatsoever?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from experience, i'd prefer a system of very basic insurance coverage by the state through general taxation, with improved terms available via insurance companies' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'conjecture: different countries fund medicare differently because the proclivity of the population to be corrupt is different' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'insurance companies are an extra middleman -- they add to the cost of medical healthcare' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, in the Gary Allen 14 steps to oppression, how many of those steps were initiated by Republicans' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you read the book, you'll realise that it doesn't matter which group initiates them' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it's both' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'tiger, did they catch Banksy?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"catch"?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'read a note that they had it in custody(police), but only seen 2 articles, you heard anything?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'maybe this is an art piece' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Republican version of step 8 is " An official declaration that Communist/Socialist organizations are subversive and subsequent legal action taken to suppress them"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'banksy himself? no' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i see thanks' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not quite, zade, it would anti-liberty/anti-patriot/anti-capitalist/anti-freemarket organisations' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) The Jerk Fiendish: 'http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/comments/banksy_arrest_hoax' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it references the clamp down on dissent, not on the existance of the organisations itself' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which was seen in the McCarthy era and more recenly by Republicans equating Socialism directly to Communism' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialism is described as the route to collectivising and amassing power in the hands of the ruling elite' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'communism is a way of selling that to people' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Communism does not work, so Communism does not sell' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it sells' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you just disagree with it' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'Tigernuts, where did you get that definition of socialism?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not a definition of socialism' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'he got it from Animal Farm' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'you are not going to sell Communism to anybody that was oppressed by Comminism' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a description of the way socialism is applied like a tool as a means to an end' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Socialism sells because socialism works' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts chortles mischievously. T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it works like a hole in the head' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'socialism doesn't work. Human nature pretty much guarantees it.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'So you're not saying that socialism is bad, but only the way we implement it, correct?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'decently-regulated Socialism is totally compatible with decently-regulated Free-enterprise and decently-regulated Capitalism' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I kind of like socialism. Social Security keeps a few of my older relatives afloat.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not inherently evil, if that's what you mean by bad, but it is ideologically flawed' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for socialism to work it requires a very large degree of concensus among the population you implement it in' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is the very few examples of countries where it works are extremely resource rich, small populations' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Like N. Korea, e.g.?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'N. Korea is not socialist' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'North Korea is all about Juche and communism.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the laws of nature and evolution do indicate that socialism works, so "the laws of" human nature does permit Socialism to work' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do not, zade' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, you are not looking hard enough' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're conflating two things, governance and community' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'don't get trapped in labels' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'socialism requires consensus and a benevolent transparent governance, it really only works at a community level, hence the less likely it is to work the larger the size of your governed group' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the USA is resource rich (to hear Rizgoth talk of Oil independence), yet is the USA socialist -- yes and no, depending om how hard the look for (lurking) socialism' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'So you're saying the US is just one big happy community?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'clearly the US isn't one community' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'So would you like to retract your previous statment then?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the fact that you're trying to impose one set of values on it that doesn't fit everyone means you get argument' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is a lot of (hidden?) socialism in the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would i retract it?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'You said socialism works only at a community level. Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, ect, are definitely not on a community level' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why the USA was set up as a constitutional republic - some basic laws around defence, human rights, and interstate trading, with the rest of the powers devolved to the states themselves' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they work worse the bigger they become, haladin' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the Education of children is socialism' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'Public Schools are also really nifty.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'public schools are currently fucking awful' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I think we're going to have to disagree on that.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wreck-It Roninleader: 'Public schools < Homeschooling.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'Can you cite facts, Tigernuts?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what that public schools are awful?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'Yeah, If you're going to make a statement like that, I would like to see some sources.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so if the public svhools were sabotaged, (another topic:) from where did the sabotage come.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from your plummeting literacy and numeracy rates?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the public schools are not that bad -- the USA seems to be doing okay' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same in the UK' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have got worse the more that centralised government have taken control over them' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the same in the UK, they were administered at a county level' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I'm just asking for a few sources. Just point me where you're getting that opinion from.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well I hate to burst your bubble, but an opinion is not something that is factual' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wreck-It Roninleader: 'http://images.collegeathome.com.s3.amazonaws.com/homeschool-domination.jpg' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might as well say "give me sources why your favourite colour is black"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the plummeting literacy is partly from the deceptive blatant-lying language used by political parties' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not, Zade' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the accusatory logic used by USA political activists to smear opponents is ruining decent-logic nuances' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I can think of some places that can show me hard statistics on standarized tests. I'm just trying to see if you can show me where you are getting your facts from is all.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are no standardised tests in the UK' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's kinda the problem' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'You brought the USA into that equation, though.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'look at how inadequately common USAmericans talk, and note the similarity to political smear campaigns' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by all means, link to your stats' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'many USAmericans no longer use superlatives carefully -- many examples in this debate channel' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I never said I had any. I was just questioning yours.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'misuse of superlatives is already almost colloquial idiomatic -- what they mean and what they said don't jive grammatically' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I am guessing that the common 17th century english speaking peasant would think we've butchered the language.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'assuming you could even understand them' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the British improved the English language (medieval english was in a shambles before the unification)' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/dec/01/adults-england-poor-numeracy' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just some background of the kind of levels you're talking about' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that may be true, but there was still a lot of slang and misuse of the language back then.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'Could the current state of the way we speak just be considered the evolution of the language?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'could and is.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'evolve would suggest improvement' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'not necessarily' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not necessarily, but to the general public it would imply that' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'evolution doesn't only result in good mutations' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'to the general public who don't understand what evolution means, maybe.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is the problem' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Haladin: 'I hope that when I am old and grey, no words will be longer than 5 letters lon and incorporate numbers.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: ''no words will incorporate numbers'?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a recent example of superlative misuse: [23 Feb 04:32:28] (Debate) Anaristos: 'the only reason one wouldn't want ... is because ....' <-- note the idiomatic grammatically painful misuse of the superlative "only"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'was that his global government point?' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: '1ndv61tab' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and where do those that select the Oscar nominations get the time to watch all those films to shortlist down to the nominations even watching the shortlist must be tedious' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'given the arbitrary self-worshipping nature and inexplicable award targets, i would say .. they don't actually watch those movies' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe they sleep through or skip the viewings, then vote according to what they believe is both politically-correct and likely to please those providing career jobs' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sounds more likely' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'modern movies of late have suffered from being "a bit shit, really"' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'are the People's Choice awards rigged' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually a very small volunteer-based vote, so yes, they are biased' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is only one vote more rigged that all of that, and that is the GOP candidate race' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'GOP doesn't have nothing on the Democrats.' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't remember hearing much about corruption in their leader election' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to the extent of wiping out the votes of entire counties, removing candidates from polls, and biasing airtime coverage' T3/r7/2013-02-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rainer Daybreak: 'Fruity Pebbles over all opposition.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aweyn: 'There was some outrage due to an American school's cultural club members reciting the pledge of allegiance in Arabic.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, the govt wants to tap into the 401k program that investors have, and give iou's that promise a 3% interest rate for the loans. Americans have a littleover $17 trillion in 401k's' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It would also get rid of the tax benefits of the 401k.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps tap into the trillions owned by the excessively rich instead of the mere 17 trillion of the 401k (which won't last long with current spending by the government)' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhap tax the excessively rich at a higher rate' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'as I see it, we need to do 3 things... tax cap gains at the same graduated rates as ordinary income, pull back our military from wars/foreign bases, and quit subsidizing billion+ dollar corporations.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'I don't much like the idea of raising the highest rates any higher, combined with state/local taxes, sales taxes, etc, the rich are already paying in over half what they make back in taxes. I don't care how excessively rich you are, giving up more than half your paycheck in taxes is excessive' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'and it punishes those legitimately playing by the rules, while many afluent folks will shelter their income so as not to pay those rates' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They also get many more loopholes, deductions, and credits which reduce their effective tax rate.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the rich are excessively rich because their earnings are (too) high. so taxing extremely-rich individuals at 50% or higher is okay' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'right - and I think those are where we need to take a closer look at. AMT was designed to prevent too much excessive loopholing, but it doesn't stop you from not earning the money on paper in the first place, sheltering it in trusts/corps/off shore' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those are desperate times in the USA -- raise and keep the taxes high on the excessively rich until the national debt is eliminated' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'paying off the national debt would be destructive....Never going to happen.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'currently there is too much "graft" persuading politicians to pander to the rich -- give the rich an incentive to reduce the national debt to 0 with a suplus -- high taxes while there is either a debt or a deficit' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'how would it be destructive, rizgoth?' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Taokan: 'also, I could be persuaded (lol like I have a say in it) to support a tax hike as a "war tax", that terminates when we are not at war' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Because almost $7 trillion of that debt is owned by foreign govts, if we transfered $7 trillion in cash back to them, it would cause untold problems in the US, it would need to be spread out over 50 years.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'without a cogent explanation odf that conjectured nonsense by Rizgoth , Rizgoth is not to be believed' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Rizgoth did not yet explain why enriching foreign governments is bad' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the $7 trillion in debt was incurred in less than 12 years - the Rizgoth nonsense says the 50 years is required to reverse the debt -- so Rizgoth is unbelievable' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll take at least 50 years unless you declare bankruptcy' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Tigernuts' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'right Tigernuts' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you have a credible plan to pay it off otherwise' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope? i rest my case' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'put me in charge, i don't care who i offend to get the job done -- but i shall be fair (maybe not to the excessively rich)' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that still isn't a plan' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would you DO' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if poor are taxed, they hurt. But if the excessively rich are taxed, they don' hurt, so tax the excessively rich' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think you can pay off the national debt by taxing the rich?' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there is more to be done than tax the excessively rich' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'get that backpedalling in :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there isn't enough rich people to even put a dent in the debt, and that's even if you could get them to pay more tax... which you cannot' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(not significantly, anyway)' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(repeat): wrong Tigernuts' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not wrong, it's right and has been proven right over and over and over and over and over again' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you tax rich people punatively, they either stop paying themselves taxable income, or they move' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And it would be easy for most CEOs and rich people to run their countries from say bermuda.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so they move - and lose their USAmerican income' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'companies that is.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't lose their american income, they'll turn it into wherever they go to income' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'tax foreign run companies at a higher tax rate -- the rich are not going to avoid paying taxes be moving' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'see, that proves you don't know what you're talking about' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they won't be foreign companies' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unless you plan on becoming Cuba or North Korea and preventing any movement of capital and/or services into or out of the country' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'no matter what you come up with to defraud Americans, i am able to come up with a remedy -- the rich are going to pay a lot of taxes' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are not, they will not, you're deluding yourself' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'wrong Tigernuts, the rich shall pay dearly' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts pats Zade on his head. T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so in answer to the previous question, you have NO credible plan for reversing the debt' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'don't be a patronising twerp' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you let yourself in for that kind of ridicule when you come up with such patently absurd nonsense' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'actually, no matter what disaster befalls the USA and the UK, i shall be entertained ' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dead maybe' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i reincarnate' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good for you' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'bad for you -- this is the benign Zade' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Beretta tells Maryland it'll move it's operation out of state if they instigate laws counter to the second amendment' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which can only be good news for Texas' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, we will welcome them.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'too right' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Even give them some tax breaks for a few years to sweeten the deal.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'does Beretta make good guns' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'GM is going to put wifi hotspots in all year 2014 vehicles.' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good a reason as any not to buy one' T3/r7/2013-02-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there, done my activist bit for the day, wrote to my local rag' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, administration has released several hundred immigrants free from a detention centre to save money' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'official reason was to save money, it has the money to grope your kids at airports and set up checkpoints all over the country, can afford to buy 7000 assault rifles for feds for "personal protection" and buy 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition, but can't afford to keep locked up or deport a few hundred illegals' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think that's what you call "bullshit"' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'pretty much like every single horror story being told about the sequester' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK central (privately owned) bank discusses setting a negative interest rate' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'isn't that called a grant?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'means it would charge banks to hold deposits' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which could mean banks charging customers for holding a balance' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lorddylan: 'What? why would anyone pay for that?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why? because they had little choice' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your supreme court needs firing' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'whoa, mood swing.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lao: 'but nobody really gets moody on this channel...' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what's that, bubba? :-)' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's when a local nutjob randomly decides to switch rants in the middle of their diatribe.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nah, it tracks me catching up on the news' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though i'm sorry you're having trouble, i'll stick to one tribe at a time' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it's an issue, especially since our credit got downgraded and t he currency is being devalued' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it has me scratching my head at what to do' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'speaking of banks, did you hear about that lady who lost 2 full years of income because she was transferring her money into someone else's account?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'deliberately?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it was a typo, but apparently HSBC doesn't really care where the money goes so long as it wasn't their mistake.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not unknown for people to have suffered companies setting up regular payments from their accounts and then not being able to do anything at all to prevent them' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'she was the owner of the company, and she was paying herself from the company account. She was attempting to put it into her private account, but instead it went to some random stranger.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then she's a dumbarse' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'said stranger pulled it out from the ATM, so apparently the bank can't just go after the guy for "stolen funds" or whatever it is they slap you with for bank errors.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The U.S. Supreme Court today essentially put the government's expanded terror surveillance program beyond legal challenge, tossing out a lawsuit filed by a group of lawyers, journalists, and civil rights groups who claimed they were improperly swept up in the law's reach.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what i was saying that your supreme court needing firing for, riz' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they've basically become a rubber stamp for whatever constitution-trampling bullshit spews out of Obama's arsehole that day' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Justice Samuel Alito is just plain wrong' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mushambo: 'have they decided yet the legality of bringing a drug K9 to someone's doorstop and using that 'alert' as reasonable cause?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'dunno, but i believe it's been used already' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they could argue that "not letting police in without a reason or warrant" is due course' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I think I saw a blurb on the news scroller saying it was allowed, but I was paying more attention to the bigger picture about the weather.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'simple solution, shoot the k9 unit' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'never shoot the dog. It's like diddling a kid.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mushambo: 'They're considered peace officers here in the US...' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't have peace officers any more' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'sure we do, they patrol malls and parking lots.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only peace officers you have are sheriffs and their deputies' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Today congress passed a suplemental bill adding $1 million to the CIA budget to provide money to Britains MI6 to set up a survelliance unit to watch Tigernuts.....:p' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'state and fed cops are 'law enforcement' which are not the same thing' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they are coming to get you !' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, they were providing them money so they can kill rogue agents, seal their bodies in large holdalls, then claim it was suicide' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'not all police departments are under local control' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mushambo: 'We still have local police, which at least here in my state, are still referenced as 'peace officers' in the statutes' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or better still, hire asians to infiltrate budding jihadi cells and have them blow up tube trains killing dozens of people' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and other such fantastic uses of our money not' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'can't, blowing shit up isn't the asian style. They prefer the bioweapons.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they blew up a bus with a backpack bomb. the other guy was late getting onto his tube, so they had to blow that up with a trackside bomb planted earlier by the Israeli run security' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'using the fact that there was an anti-terrorism drill going on at the exact same time. Where have we heard that before? hrmm' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mushambo: 'Tiger, you're talking about the tubes that the World Wide Web comes through ? :)' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'oh, you mean the crazians, yeah...' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tube trains' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'london underground' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mushambo: 'Ohhh...the gap!' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We should use suicide bombers to blow up the terrorists....just pay the families of each recuit, a small stipend per month......we would get thousands of middle east recruits.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'the jihadis infiltrated a clothing store?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'without the feds goading them on, they couldn't blow their way out of a paper bag' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feds actively go out seeking jihadi's with low IQs then use them as patsy's to plot a bombing, then arrest them to show the country how badly they need all this money pissed up the wall on anti-terrorism, and how they need all this surveillance/authoritarian bullshit' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gets a bit old after a while' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A three-ounce serving of roast horse has 149 calories, 24 grams of protein, and five grams of fat. The same amount of beef tenderloin has 179 calories, 24 grams of protein, and nine grams of fat. Horse milk, which some Central Asians drink in fermented form, has one-third the fat of cow's milk.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the reason we dont eat horse is pure economics....it is cheaper to eat beef.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'riz, hurry up and get your country back, i want to move there' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are Western and Western-backed asian satellite companies taking PressTV off the air?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what's PressTV?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a multi-language Persian TV station' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'well, Persia is what Iran used to be...' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's a semi-private semi-state media outlet, much like RT is to Russia, BBC is to the UK, or MSNBC is to the USA' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mmm, ground venison, chili packet, pinto beans and tomato sauce....' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'quick and dirty chili with beans?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nodnod, good stuff' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'love chili.....ostrich, beef, venison, tvp, chicken, pork, all is good.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'even black bear.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bison is really good, and so is reindeer, or moose.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what's tvp?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'textured vegetable protein' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why not just say tofu?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'because it is called tvp :)' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bacon, beef or chili flavored tvp' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'why would you want to eat tvp that tastes like real meat?' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'because it is really cheap compared to meat, and when you mix it with meat it extends it.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's like a lesbian using a real-dick dildo, with all the veins and stuff.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you have first hand experience? :p' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'yes' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'I even asked them why, but they made me go sleep on the couch.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but this deer meat was shot about 3 months ago.....' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but I always add beans or tvp to my chili.....I like it that way.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, cattle are much more efficient at turning grass into energy compared to horses.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Hospitals in the US are a major ripoff....Some guy was billed $474,000 for 4 days in a hospital.....including 139 blood checks at $40 each, $50,000 for a ventilator, those little white cups that medicine come in...$10 each, it goes on and on....' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'healthcare reform is needed. Put everyone on medicare.' T3/r7/2013-02-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'medicare is the most efficient healthcare program in the world.....less than 2% of the cost is administration compared to an avg admin cost of 23% for private insurance.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Italy has pissed on the EU-Goldman Sachs parade' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US dairy industry petitioning FDA to approve aspartame as a hidden, unlabelled additive to milk and other dairy products' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Sugar addictions are good for you' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gas prices went up here gain, 3rd time in 2 weeks' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'aspartame isn't sugar, tinada, sugar is far healthier' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be frank, he can be Dennis' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/01/19/the-shocking-story-of-how-aspartame-became-legal/' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'will be news to many, not to me ;-)' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ronda: 'i know' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'make your own aspartame....get some formaldahyde, dry it, scrape up what is left over, and put on your corn flakes. :p' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd prefer cane sugar' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'actually, would prefer honey on toast, or maybe some free range eggs, boiled' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, I use honey.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas honey.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'couple of boiled eggs, some honey on toast using local honey, home made bread' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'type of quality food i don't currently get :-(' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'everyone used to eat that way before industrialized food came along.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: '(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's enough to know that they believe in nanny state, strict regulation of anything and everything, and are anti-ownership, anti-choice, and anti-freedom'' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when they worked manual labour so used up those 3000 calories a day' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'working on the family farm used up a lot of calories :)' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i thought you were against regulation, nuts' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'flat-rolled sandwich bread spread with jam, rolled, dipped in an egg-and-cream batter, fried in butter on medium-low heat until golden brown, and sprinkled with powdered sugar or syrup.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i am against teh vast majority of regulation, yes' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they channel has a cave troll....' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I am in favor of getting rid of big industrial farms, and going back to the small and medium sized family farms, and co-ops...which is what existed before the big corporate farms.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would be good, ria' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'riz*' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more likely there than here' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'co-op sounds awful lot like communism :\' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't sound anything at all like communism' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and what would be your plan for getting the soils back to how it was then? Currently, our soil quality really can't support mom-and-pops and still feed everyone.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'or socialism. whish is exactly the same thing as most americans know' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'which*' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'local family farms used to group together into co-ops to negotiate the best price for their products.....how is that communism? That is capitalism.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the soil has been devestated by industrial production, hans' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'If Aya ignores you and you say a swear, I bet you 50 bucks he'd still report you, AND, if he ignores you he says shit about you andwhen you ask him why he said that and to stop he goes all like "SHERT ERP, IT'S NOT A PERSONAL OFFENCE SO SHTOP TALKING TO MEEE"' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'wrong channel.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'Everybody ignore that....' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you ramped up your oil production, you wouldn't need to grow biofuels' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'But then I realized it was curse allowed. YESH.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Greyrainbow: 'Wrong channel again.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'swearing is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oil is good, but natgas is better...and we have more recoverable natgas right now compared to oil....even though we have 20x more oil.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and you need natgas to make fertilizer and other chemicals to make family farms more efficient.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We could end the corporate welfare to huge factory farms in the US, and hand it to the family farms instead.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or just take it off the debt' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'simply removing subsidies from the industrial farms will help family farms' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and what happens to the co-ops when most people are growing their own, anyways?' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what happens to supermarkets if you grow your own veg now?' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'answer is not much, not everyone will want to have their own farm or grow their own veg' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so there'll always be a market' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Farmers markets are growing every year in the US...been that way for 100 years or more.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet all the welfare supports the industrial farms, and all the regulation unduly penalises the small farms while industrial farms are largely immune' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, small farms do not qualify for most of the farm welfare programs because they are too small...:(' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the lions share goes to the big corporate farms.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'and the black frauds living in the city.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK it was mostly supermarkets and joining the EU that killed off family farms' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Was looking at the price for big farm combines......They are really expensive now, just like all big machines.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can get small ones here really cheap, just need to be mechanically minded' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A family farm co-op could buy a big combine and share it......reducing the price for each family farm.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly you'd have a small business that rent itself + the combine out to family farms here, saved the farmers needing to own it' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they'd have their own standard tractors and bits, but the big combines they'd rent in' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'mod, here in the US we have travelling companies that do the combine harvesting for you.....' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I love going to a family farm that grows pigs......we have one about 60 miles from here.....they have the best smoked pork in Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Even though we harvest our own pork from the ranch, it is nice to have smoked bacon from a local family farm.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Noegel: 'It doesn't make sense' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Noegel: 'Raptors were smart... but not even compared to dogs' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Noegel: 'The human brain.... and intelligence is a monument to life's evolution.. I am sure a superior race will take over one day' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'my bet is on singularity' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I hope it happens in my lifetime, I want to spend eternity in a cyberworld (watching porn and playing aard, just as in RL)' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'well, eventually someone will write a bot advanced enough to gain consciousness ' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'altho dwarf fortress entities gaining consciousness is more likely' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"Oh we're The John Birch Society, The John Birch Society - we're here to save America! from a communistic fate." -- from a mid 20th centuru song' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Snaebjorn: 'next topic' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I should be the next pope.....I would elevate Donkeys to Bishops!' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kokurai: 'no i should be the pope!' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Teardrop by massive attack is a good song.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the theme song to the tv show House.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'depressing song (Teardrop) to a depressing tvseries (House)' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'chuck norris vs. superman?' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kokurai: 'they both suck so idc' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'chuck has this stare... it can be very deadly' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'but so does superman' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, what a fantastic calibre of congresswomen you have, when Maxine Waters claimed that the sequester will lose over 170 million jobs' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tenar: 'I know which 500-ish they could start with.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'there's only 134 million jobs' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that was why i giggled, hans' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what with that and that fucking lesbian transgender freak Napolitano threatening to blow up America if her department gets cuts' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's like a bunch of kids throwing a hissy fit' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's almost fun to watch' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and for all the chauvinists out there: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/27/what-housework-has-to-do-with-waistlines/' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'you'd probably want to write something that automatically added mobs when you went in rooms' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) A Giant Kraken: 'oops' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'WTH, In 2003, Arkansas enacted a 3 percent individual income tax surcharge on all residents of Texarkana, both the portion of the city within Arkansas' border as well as that within Texas.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Time to invade Arkansas!' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Free the residents of Arkansas from arky oppression!' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I like that.....if you want justice, go to a whore house...if you want to get fucked, go to a courthouse.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well with the SCOTUS legislating from the bench looks like there is enough fucking to go around' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'it's not SCOTUS's fault if Congress can't write laws rightly the first time around.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'well its funny but the outcry about activist judges is consipicuously absent' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: '"they wanted vote against it but couldn't"- Scalia... what a fine legal mind' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'that's either a tweet or you didn't include the whole quote. "They" isn't defined.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I don't think there is anything to be gained by any Senator to vote against continuation of this act. And I am fairly confident it will be reenacted in perpetuity unlessunless a court can say it does not comport with the Constitution... [T]his is not the kind of a question you can leave to Congress....Even the name of it is wonderful: The Voting Rights Act. Who is going to vote against that in the future?' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'I'm no constitutional law scholar, but the implication is Scalia knows best' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'unless a court can say it does not comport with the constitution.... that is a HORRIFIC statement' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'all he's saying is that unless a law can be shown to be unconstitutional any (popular) law that is struck down by the court can simply be relegislated. I may be old and a long time away from mandated high school classes on the US Constitution, but I think that's exactly the process outlined in the division of powers.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Twyst: 'laws are A) unconstitutional B) constitutional. Doesn't matter if it is a popular law or not.' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'whoa, Chicago's going to give sex-ed classes to kindergarteners...' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what do you all think about selling expired food to poor people?' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'That depends on what you mean by expired. If you mean past shelf date, that's pretty much always fine. If you mean spoiled, that's another matter entirely :P' T3/r7/2013-02-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'what if it had no shelf date? One store in Boston is doing away with sell-by dates.'