T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'if Obamacare is so good, why did only 6 people sign up for it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more than 6 have (now), but that doesn't mean it's any good, it's not, it's a botch'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having looked at it, i think i know how i would have done it if i were in charge'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the shale oil boom is over'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'When the ash from a volcanic eruption filled a nearby seabed an estimated 30 million years ago, the combination of seawater, fed by hundreds of mineral-rich rivers and the rare earth minerals present in the volcanic ash, created the Utah deposits distinctive composition.  A perfect mixture of minerals that is like crack to vegetable plants.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A very unique find indeed, and my vegetable plants love it mixed in with my composted soil.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wish i'd bought some bitcoins when they were cheaper'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the british govt is switching to bitcoins ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I keep hearing about bitcoins, and hwo they're revolutionary, etc... but I haven't really seen them being utilized in any meaningful way'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a few places accepting them, but it's early days'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'admitedly, I don't spend much time following bitcoins'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it now costs more money to mine a bitcoin than what it is worth.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the most telling thing is that there are hedgefunds now actively treating them as an investment class'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'only when playing mario'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'also wish i'd bought Lloyds shares after the guvmint bailed em out'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'GM is now at 32+ from $7 after it went bankrupt.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so where does the value of a bitcoin come from?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ford though is still hovering around $17 a share even though it is a stronger company with better vehicles.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Ford is really cheap, wouldnt surprise me if a big player like buffet didnt buy a big % of it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guvmint goons are after Luke Rudkowski again - fresh after trying to frame him with child porn earlier in the year, they broke into his hotel room and tried to fiddle with his hardware the other day'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'everyone should live in a hotel.....and buy my vegetables.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Just harvested 18 bags of fresh greens today.....sold 16 of them and kept 2 for myself.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'people just love these 1 gallon bags of mixed greens for $8, as close to organic as you can get without actually being organic.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '1 gallon bag is how much in weight?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'empty or full'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wassup, vd?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you think that Google's business model being to leverage intelligence data gathered from it's (mostly unwitting) users directly and indirectly is a conspiracy theory? I've got a frickin bridge to sell you'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'I'd call it that. Obviously Google does itself evaluate user data for advertising placement and search result optimization purposes. I'm not aware of it bing sold to other entities.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'It's core business doesn't depend on it, anyway.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that is it's core business'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'nope.  I think your concern over it being idenfitiable as anyone specifically makes it different.  Selling anonymous data for marketing purposes does make sense.  It happens from every other industry in which you register with.  Whether it be amazon, to your local grocers who have a loyalty card.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'The grocers might actually have more relevant info about you to sell, if you just use google services for spreadsheets. But that's a digression.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not anonymous'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least, it's rarely not anonymous'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sorry, rarely anonymous'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'So it says "User-Tigernuts did X, Y and Z" - No.  It idenfities you as a db entry.  User 2933302948222 has done the following searches.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'I'd still be interested in whether you're thinking of some specific publicized case here. I can't think of any, OTTOMH. And I'm fairly interested in Google's behavior.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'where user 2933302948222 is Joe bloggs who lives at this address and has this email'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: '(I don't think you even need to give them a meatspace address.)'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I was reading the other day that grocery stores are now starting to track your movements through their stores by tracking your phone'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or in the loyalty card case, it's joe bloggs (this address) who has bought these products. loyalty card vendors are now sharing data with health insurance providers.......'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm ambivalent about it all, i personally choose not to allow these companies make money off me in this way'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what i was aggrieved about is that you instantly dismiss it as conspiracy theory when you know it's fact. MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW IT HAPPENS'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most people use google, loyalty cards, facebook, completely oblivious to the way their data is being harvested and sold'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Xaeris: 'see, the difference is google doesn't release personal information with it.  Facebook does.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Google does, what do you think Google+ is? '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'I ... don't know it's fact. Look, I do have some understanding of Google's core business. This is not it. It's all about ads, really. They might be doing some data sharing on the side, but I'm not aware of it right now, and if you have some specific public evidence on it that would definitely interest me.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Various products do evaluate user data for internal purposes, but that doesn't mean it's communicated to anyone else or used in ways that put you at a disadvantage.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Personally, Google+ mostly seems like a way to get people to look at google properties more so they can be shown personalized ads.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Ad views which can then be sold for more money, which is pretty much Google's core business already.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: '(Full disclosure, they're also my employer. I won't prove this since I can't without revealing my meatspace identity, and that's really not worth it. Believe it or not; I'm just stating it so I'm not hiding a potential source of bias on my part.)'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you'll be glad to know that i try to avoid your product whereever possible :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Perfectly fine. I'm not in marketing, it's not my job to advertise our products. I don't really use them much in my personal life myself.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the NSA revelations really haven't done you any good'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'No, and as I mentioned paranoia about /those/ is perfectly reasonable. I can't guarantee that they're not still tapping into our data. They're good at infiltration, I suspect.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'There's lots of internal work to make it harder, but ...'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't infiltration, it's partnership'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Not really. Google doesn't get anything back. There is 'cooperation', but that's enforced by US law.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Unless you count 'not being prevented from doing business in the US' as getting something back. Which you could, I guess.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if it's anything like the agreement that phone carriers have with the NSA, then Google get paid'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'See Lavabit for a nice example of what happens to those that don't cooperate.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Possibly, but it's not exactly a profit center. There's lots of work required on the company side to service those requests.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'additionally, Google's startup was partly funded by seed money from InQtel'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'You'd probably still be less exposed if you store your data on your own infrastructure, assuming you know how to do security.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that isn't in doubt'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Interesting if true. I don't know how early funding worked. I don't think it bought them much long-term sympathy, if so.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'err, they created the biggest single intelligence gathering tool on the planet'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd say that it was worth while'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Quite possibly. And that may indeed have been the idea behind it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it was'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that all being said, what people are annoyed about is the lies'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'OTOH, the NSA is clearly not happy with what they were getting, since they started surreptitiously tapping our fiber, too.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'And the internal reaction to that was to dump more crypto on it to make /that/ harder.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the NSA can tap the whole internet infrastructure in the US and elsewhere'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'telecoms laws changed in the 1990s to allow that'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'You /should/ be able to prevent that with crypto, but unfortunately SSL is horrendeously broken.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'They probably have a bunch of compromised root certs.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even with crypto, their 'involvement' with Microsoft and Apple means they can tap you at the desktop end, regardless of the crypto'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Don't need to run their OSs.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs, but most people do'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Perfectly optional.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'I also don't know if they're compromised. It's possible, but if so it's interesting that nobody figured it out clearly. Lots of clever reverse-engineers have taken a crack at it, I bet.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's all way out of control'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'The google case is harder, since we don't actually give outsiders access to our server code, so I can see how you'd be more paranoiad about that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'paranoid about what?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'I should have said "if you're" :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have nothing to hide, but it's the principle of the matter'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would kindly like them to fuck off'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Screw /that/, it's perfectly fine to have stuff to hide.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Agreed on principle, though.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'principle appears to be what 95% of the public are missing'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having principles is racist'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hell, having an opinion makes you an extremist and a conspiracy theorist'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'As for SSL, we did put some hacks into Chrome to make it harder to compromise by going after the upstream certs. I still don't know that they haven't gotten their hands on some of our own keys, though.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'quantum computers might screw up crypto'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'tigernuts do you lock the door when you go to the bathroom?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'As well as some perfect-forward-security stuff.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at home? no, t work? yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Possibly. I don't think they have yet.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they have them, just not developed enough to be useful yet'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'then you have inredning'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'then you have inredning'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'opps'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wut?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Yeah, I realize there's some research models. There's also serious debate on whether they're actual QCs :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nods'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'then you have something to hide'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'It's also a matter of politeness, most people would prefer not to walk in on another employee doing their business by accident :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'privacy isn't about having things to hide'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'So you're really helping them by locking the door.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'privacy is about the right to security'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the two are intertwined'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'defence of yourself and your property is an alenable human right, which means that privacy is also'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'privacy is about my right to keep private whatever i consider private'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if you want something to stay private do not send it through someone else technology'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Or encrypt it right, anyway.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'isn't restricted to technology though, elchanan, then you have governments and regimes forcing you to use technology'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'nope not even encrypt just dont send it'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'of course it is stupid to give others the opportunity'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'or don't publish/send it on internet'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how is it forced'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Encryption does work. And there's lots of benefits to being able to user leased data lines.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'take money as an example, elchanan, governments are gradually squeezing out cash because they want all transactions to be traceable'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'but its no excuse for spying'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'then use bitcoin. Very difficult to track.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'I think that's more a matter of most people considering cash inconvenient.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Bitcoint is horrible for lack of traceability.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'The history is there /forever/.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'It's really one of the worst choices you could make. I like it and all, but not for that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bitcoin is useless unless you're online'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'bitcoin is very difficult to track'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'then do barter only and fight the systems Humans have set up, and struggle more than nessasary'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'You'd do a lot better sending cash through the mail'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tano: 'Chances are no one will notice at all, and afterwards there's no records.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're missing the point, we shouldn't have to struggle'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or fight'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'be homeless and ask people for food on the street'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'people have struggled for thousands of years and peopel will continue to struggle'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so why are the people struggling and fighting against this branded as the bad guys?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dont understand the question'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'because the other side is in power'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole angle of your questioning and response, Elchanan, is that the behaviour is abbherant. This is also the view of the establishment who claim that if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear, and that being raped by corporations and governments for the benefit of a few rich robber barons is your duty '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i repeat the question, why does fighting for human rights make me the bad guy?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'humans shouldnt have rights'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'dude there is like 7 billion people in the world without the systems we developed that would never of happened'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would never have happened'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: '7 billion people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: '1 million people > 7 billion sheeple'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '7 billion people didn't come about as a result of the surveillance state'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'that is alot of mouths to feed'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'because human right activists are usually breaking the law where they are at'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a police state is not required to feed  7 billion people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: '+s'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'rofl societies have been doing surveillance for a long long time certainly before technologies we have today '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so your claim is that people are not allowed rights or freedoms because there are too many people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at what size does a population have to be in order to preclude it from having rights/freedoms?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i claim that if every one was allowed freedom to do what ever the hell they want the world would be pretty fucked yea'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why are you equating having human rights with living in an anarchy?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well part of the reason govts formed was to protect the people within a society so how can you protect society without looking out for people that want to harm that society'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can look out for people who want to harm that society without infringing their rights/freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'still doesnt contradict human rights'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and what do you mean equating having human rights with living in anarchy?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '[01 Nov 19:37:39] (Debate) Elchanan: 'i claim that if every one was allowed freedom to do what ever the hell they want the world would be pretty fucked yea''
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the freedoms described by human rights are not "freedom to do what ever the hell they want to" (anarchy)'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'in an anarchy society functions without govt because the the members of an anarchist society care about how their actions impact others'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'common law (the oldest form of societal arbitration, which US and UK law was originally based on before getting corrupted by maritime law thanks to corporations) regulates the interaction between people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it could, but there's no guarantee of that'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and we know anarchies do not work because many people will do what ever the fuck they want'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'agreed'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you also have to admit that having human rights/freedoms is not incompatible with living within a governed society'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is not incongruous'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i though I was more saying that in order to preserve a vast amount of human rights governments have been established'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't agree with that. most were formed to guarantee the rights of a minority. It is fair to say that SOME governments have been established with that aspiration in mind, but in almost all cases it doesn't pan out that way. Magna Carta 1215 was an attempt, USA 1776 was an attempt'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'confusing tiger... you saying they are compatible '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it rarely lasts long'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i never said they succeed in doing so'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is certainly true that the direction of travel most recently has been towards authoritarianism, and it has not been the target of governments to protect the freedoms of the people, but instead to protect and perpetuate and expand the scope of the government structure itself'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but oldest form of government being strong man rule certainly does not include promoting rights of others'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'absolutely not, unless you happen to get a benevolent dictator'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but would protection of a government possibly also protect its people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would argue mostly no, or at best, not necessarily'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and could there not be need to expand the scope of a govt structure as populations expand and technology advances'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, a wife whose husband beats her might protect her from other men beating her'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't stop her being beaten all the same'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no doubt that governance has to adapt as populations and technology changes, and it's partly because this hasn't happened that we're all so badly screwed today'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not evitable that this change should be more, centralised, authoritarian government that restricts freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'bullshit is has not happened  this whole debate is about the govt adapting'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'oh, it's adapting alright, but not for the better'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well your certainly entitled to your opinion '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all the technology available, we should be living in a utopia by now'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i cannot accept your argument that because technology has improved and that there are more people, we have to live with fewer freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'but fact is we wont know if many of these changes make things better worse or no change untill down the road'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'i dont live if fear'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm already old enough to see the fruits of changes'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and what has gotten worse'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'has the govt knocked down your door for being a law abiding citizen'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in my lifetime, people's life expectancy has improved, they are healthier and have got access to more 'toys', but people are poorer, have less social mobility, less aspirations, less life choices, fewer freedoms, are more heavily regulated'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'what fewer freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the world is far less moral place, people are getting less intelligent, and are more compartmentalised'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you can say, what you can do, when and where you can do it'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are more laws, more regulations'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'lol less intelligent we know more now than ever in history intellegence of society has expanded '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not true'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and in what way did laws/ regulations hurt freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a law or regulation prevents you from doing something that you could do prior to that law/regulation, then freedoms are infringed by definition'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ohh i know we regulated industry with the creation of the EPA and said that we were going to restrict thier freedom to pollute '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this isn't about industry regulation, that's a strawman argument'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'no because sometimes the law is put inplace so you dont infringe on another persons rights/freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's what laws are for'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'COMMON law'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'so why cant the same argument be made for privacy freedoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because someone's right to privacy does not violate another person's rights'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'unless withholding some info causes the death of someone else, but no everyone has a secret like that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's where you have laws of redress'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if its conspiracy to cause harm certainly its could be considers a violation if the conspirace goes through'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you take that argument to it's natural conclusion, everyone would have to live in a prison cell'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'yea jopa like if a patient tells a doctor they are going to harm themselves or another person, the doctor is obligated to report it'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how is that even remotely true'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is why it has long been argued, and put into basic law such as the constitution and the magna carta, that you should only be subject to search and seizure upon there being just cause'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'tigernuts means that if we judge people by what they might do, we are all victims of preventive measure'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how is that even remotely true? because you cannot guarantee any person isn't about to harm another without knowing what they are doing at all times'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'except those arguments were made before electronic transmission of information'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thanks, jopari'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'there was that movie, minority report, remember.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they are as true with electronic transmission of information as they were before'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'equally as valid'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if i cannot see anything pointing to murder, on what grounds do i prosecute.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well some one in possession of mass amounts of explosive and bluprints to a building and talking about ...w ell you get the picture'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you even begin to suggest that the technology allows that surveillance, i can only say this: 1. No, it can't., and 2. You have absolutely no way of guaranteeing that the person in charge of the monitoring technology isn't going to put it to ill-use, which brings you right back aroudn to stage one'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that is already evidence, but how many people are likely to have that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'brings you back around to surveilling where you have reasonable cause to do so'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if i were to scan everybody's personal info to find that, i'm sure i'd find all sorts of skeletons in the closets'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you want to snoop on someone, you go to a judge and justify it'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'first of all you dont own the transmission infrastructure'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'get a warrant.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'uhh'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'putting anything out over electronic communications opens up the possibility someone intercepts it'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'if you want privacy keep things private'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'evidence collected while infringing privacy is vois.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'void*'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'not really jopari'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts boggles at Elchanan.
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'can anonymously tip many things in'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i know a lost cause when i see one, which is a shame, because if the majority of people share your view it will only mean things getting worse not better'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if i were to have people record everything you did on the net, all sorts of stuff would hit the fan, cause power corrupts.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'communications infrastructure is a defacto public commons, the internet is the talking down the pub of 100 years ago'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'hell some state go tell the DNR or other wildlife officer you saw a person dragging a deer into their garage and watch what happnes'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari raises an eyebrow.
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's the "i'm alright, Jack" inclinations that get me wound up, Jopari '
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'how is communications public commons'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'ive always paid for my communications'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is the societal standard, an accepted common form of communication which has attached a common understanding of quality/privacy'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so hospitals aren't pilublic commons either?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'public*'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and air waves witch is pretty much as close to public commons as can get well it is not private'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'a hospital can turn you away unless its a life threatening issue'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well there you go, you were banging on about laws earlier and how they were necessary to perpetuate a harmonious society, why is it acceptable for governments to break those laws?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thet would be insane.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the laws lay out what is acceptable and people then accept those as societal norms'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you then find governemnts are operating outside of those laws, outside of those norms, what are the public supposed to think/do?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'if there is no norm, then we descend into chaos.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which you could argue, Jopari, is what's happening'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'people cant "go to war" the govt can'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'chaos as in general dissent growing into revolt'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'just because there is a law that stops an individual of an action does nto mean the govt has to follow'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'war is when the government tells you who the enemy is, revolution is when the people figure it out for themselves'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the government should be bounds by the same laws the people are, the system can't work without that principle, besides, in the USA's case, the government IS (supposedly) the people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'by/of the people for the people'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'look up the social contract.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rule is: Laws dictate what people CANNOT do. Laws dictate what government CAN do'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'like ... "what ever you say can and will be used against you" a lie can be used against you but and interrogator can lie all they want to get you to tell them what they want to hear and later you cant use thier lies to help your case'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not convinced that's relevent'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'i don't know what you're getting at there, are we all on the same page%'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'anyways this is a waste of my finger muscles'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'building a better future, one nazi state at a time'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how so, i am answering, with reasoned and measured responses, i don't think any of us have given you crap yet.'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'his life clearly hasn't deteriorated sufficiently to a point where it changes his opinion yet'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lets hope that point never comes'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so ends this discussion then?'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'guess so, i'm headed bedward'
T3/r7/2013-11-01.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'night.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mmm, fried meatballs - facebook are spinning in their coffin'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'hmmm.. ham... google is rolling on the lawn'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what is the purpose of Facebook other than being videoed while puting foot in mouth and being indoctrinated with adverts and other foolishness'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well facebook serves the dual purpose of allowing societies dregs to indulge themselves in pointless and narcissistic behaviour while giving facebook a valuable source of data to aggregate and sale and the intelligence community a free spying resource'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though my sentence was a reference to the story of a UK man who had his account frozen for saying he liked meatballs'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Who cares about a dying service anyway... :D'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like to complain about the inane bullshit that society inflicts on the rest of us'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I have noticed.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess it has some legitimate uses'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'makes stalking your exes much easier'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is stating liking "sausages", "weiners", "franks, "thick balony" ecetera similar to stating liking "meatballs" on Facebook -- and was the offence that the "meatballs" were not "kosher"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the offence was that he used the term "faggots" which is appropriate term where he lived'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which is amusing since facebook are happy with all kinds of swearing and sexual words, ok with videos of beheading people, and for promoting violence, hedonism, communism and more, but you can't talk about meatballs'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that his first ammendment rights were violated'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'facebook was all about selective enforcement'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the error was eventually corrected'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'just leave the meatballs alone.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The UK has no first amendment.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'faggot is an ok term if you don't call a gay person that. for example, zade is probably not gay, but acts like a faggot all the time'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it is indicative of the problem with society where political correctness is a cancer that shuts down speech. It should only be shut down where someone is specifically offended'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even calling zade a faggot is fine, provided zade isn't offended'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'also, using facebook is not a right, it's a privilege. 1st amendment is moot'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know full well the same problem extends far beyond facebook'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'yeah, just start the phrase "No offence, but you're a faggot" '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'whether offence was caused is up to him'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'offence by proxy, lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'yeah, it's his own fault that he was offended'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'if one says "no offense*" usually they are saying it knowing full well it can be offensive.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that misses the point, vost'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i find people taking offense offensive'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade suggests that the populace use "faggot" instead of "gay" on facebook
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'I find people offencive that take offence taking people offencive'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'if the faggots reclaimed the word "faggot", it wouldn't be offensive any more'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Dagnir, that sentence has similar structure to the head of the intelligence committee saying "Your privacy hasn't been infringed if you do not know your privacy has been infringed"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'for example, if you say right towards an african american, "no offense, but you are a n(blurted out so that it does not go there)" the potential offensiveness is acknowledged and thus still there, meant or not.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'i was never prejudiced until i was told i was not permitted to be prejudiced, then i became prejudiced'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you were told not to be prejudiced, then you are prejudiced by definition'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rare agreement'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'everyone that is not an infant are prejudiced'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'having an opinion is terrorism'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i find it offensive that people can't spell "offensive"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't mush have a spellchecker?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'zmud does, albeit a crap american one'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I'm serious, if you know that it has a chance to be offensive, and yet you say it, then you are by default being offensive, and acknowledging as such, even if you say "no offense"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'not that I have noticed, no.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'you also misspelt it'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree, Kizactrin'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts. using that snide logic: "if you were told not to be a faggot, then you are a faggot by definition" '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's one logical leap too far, zade'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'lets take another tact then, if you menace someone with a weapon, then say, "don't be afraid," the action is still there, and you are acknowledging that fear may be present.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'the same is just as true with words.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but acknowledging the possibility is not the same as knowing whether the other person if fearful'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'just because you candy coat it doesn't make it right.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor should it be a justification for not being in that situation'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that's a logical step too far, Kizactrin'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'tiger, that is just an excuse. By the same reasoning, someone could kill someone, and say, "I didn't know putting a bullet to his head would kill him"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if a rabid liberal was in my house and saw my shotgun and started frothing and i said "don't be afraid", that doesn't make it illegal'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'my favourite is "i'm not racist but"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not the same'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'Dagnir gets it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'it is the action that is seen, even if the intent is yet again, candy coated or excused away.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'saying something is an action.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'everybody is a racist, especially those that deny that they are racists'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you are going to offend someone you either doing so deliberately or you are not'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you are not doing so deliberately, the only person who can say whether they were offended or not is the target'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't see any other comparable situation'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the worst type of racists are those that deny that they are racists'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'yes, but if you say "no offense" you still have knowledge that it COULD be offensive, and just MIGHT be offensive, otherwise you either wouldn't have said it, or knew that it was risky to say it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that doesn't mean that it IS offensive, kizactrin, it's merely an assessment of your understanding of it's affect in the target audience'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'the whole point is saying, "no offense" is an excuse to say what follows or what was followed.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and even if it IS offensive, doesn't mean that it isn't true, justified or illegal'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the liar opinion of an overly hypersensitive verbal target is irrelevant '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'is it possible to hate gypsies and not be racist?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'speech needs to be protected, even if is hated'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'gypsies are not a race, right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i mean, i'm ok with blacks and chinamen, but i really-really despise gypsies'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'odds are, if you say "no offense" or "I'm not racist but" or "I'm not sexist but" you are painting an excuse over something that can be taken wrong, and most likely was meant in the wrong way. It's just candy coating over an arsenic pill.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you can justify that opinion, dagnir, that's entirely fine'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't say "i want to kill gypsies because i hate them" because that's hate speech :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i just want them deported'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but "i hate gypsies because they disregard people's property rights, steal stuff, and make a mess everywhere" is fine'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'and if you do not understand that, then fine, but that doesn't make it right. Freedom IS freedom, but freedom implies responsibility as well. Otherwise you are leaning towards anarchy.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'taking bulgaria and romania into the eu was a big mistake. now there are gypsies everywhere :('
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we always had fake irish gypsies'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and yes, they are a wart on society'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i bet they are nice and civil people compared to proper gypsies'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a bit like fake authoritarian liberals/labour supporters'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The cold war was a bad idea, it created the current generation of poor gypsies.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they rip off vulnerable people and make a mess everywhere, they are well known as being one-man crime waves'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so do gypsies'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'if you are so concerned about people stealing and shit then contact an authority figure and have them do something about it. No excuse of "But they won't do anything about it." Either make a petition for the PEOPLE INVOLVED or try your hands at law enforcement and politics. Don't blame an entire race or group for the actions of a few, and don't complain unless you plan to DO something about it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which group of ethnics in the ("All in the Family" circa 1971, a tvshow started by a jew seeking to poke fun at the intolerant irish) Archie Bunker vernacular are "jigs"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts pats Blade Lord Kizactrin on his head.
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): *gasp* Blade Lord Kizactrin *lix* Tigernuts! Yoo want a *lix* too :(
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a moral, emotional, but utterly naive insertion, Kiz'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'and yet true. It's better than just whining about it. If you can't (or won't) do something about it, expect it to keep happening. If you want results, do shit yourself.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm sure you would be right up there complaining and bitching about vigilantism or insurgence which is the natural end point of your statement'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it doesn't bother me personally because i have little interaction with them, except to see the fruits of their labour, but the news is/was rife with people's lives being ruined by them, and no, there's nothing that can be done shy of lining them all up against a wall and executing them'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'or deporting them as Dagnir says'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I never said anything about those two nasty subjects. Go through it lawfully, unless you want to go through a shit storm over it'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then nothing will get done'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think you appreciate the limits that exist on a centralised european democracy'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'our countries are run for the benefit of the robber barons at the bank, the vote is essentially an illusion to shut people up and believe they have influence'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I told you not to complain about the entire "nothing will be done." If you want something done, do something. Just make sure you do it intelligently instead of throwing your life away for beating a "minority" with a baseball bat.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts, apply that logic to the ethnic groups mainly responsible for organised crime in the USA'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'same problem, zade, same situation, same outcome'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'zade, gypsies ain't an ethnic group.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'it's a rotten culture.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing will get done until democracies are broken up into smaller elments'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the dictionary disagrees against HomerSimpson'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'i generally agree with kiz, but gypsies are the ultimate exception. they're 95% scum not "a few giving the others a bad name"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the states that means control being handed back to where it was designed for - the states. IN the UK that means first extricating ourselves from the EU'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'I dont care what your dictionary says Zade, they are not an ethnic group, but a cultural group.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'if you have some bright idea, see it enacted, and do it with good reason, for good reason. Until you do something about it, you have little to complain about. However, do note that if you handle it in an unintelligent manner, there will be consequences.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why don't you, kiz, go do something about big corporations robbing people, or politicians being corrupt, or people living in poverty, or wars of aggression being perpetrated in the middle east, or wages and conditions being degraded, or taxes going up'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'because I am not the one complaining >:3'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'they used to say there was no "mafia"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'feeble, kiz'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you might as well say "i'm alright Jack, why don't you go jump?"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'but effective. I am not some pure saint from the heavens. I am just reasoning this out to the point where it should be seen by anyone with a brain.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go take a visit to Syria at all the people being shot, and when someone there complains say "well go do something about it, nobody is shooting at ME"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'you are projecting. I may be a voice of reason (sometimes) but ultimately, the world should burn for the sins of humanity. Myself included. There is no "mirror reaction" here.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the robber barons have democratic institutions sewn up to such an extent that it takes a supermajority of people to take action in a certain direction in order overcome the weight of governance, one person does enact that, and by taking the attitude you have guarantees nothing gets done'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'either take the advice or do nothing but sit on your couch drinking beer all day.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you only need take a look at the US situation - anyone 'taking a stand' is ridiculed by the system or branded a terrorist'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so you can't have it both ways'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'you are trying to mirror it again. I honestly do not care if this world gets nuked. I'd have better neighbors in hell anyways, if the christians are right. I suffer, but I either take the option of suffering, or I do something if I don't like what I see.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yet you castigate those who do do something'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you are trying to have it both ways'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'no, that is your arguement, thus you bringing up the problems 'muricans deal with. You are trying to point out the flaws in america, and yet doing nothing of the flaws of whereverthehellyoulive.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have to get going. the specifics of the problem are different here to America, but the underlying issues are the same. I always use American examples because most people here are muricans'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you can't have it both ways, you can't castigate loners and groups for taking action when you know full well that taking action through what's deemed the 'correct' route would require a supermajority that would include all those like yourself who don't give a shit and would look the other way'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'how smart, you still point out the flaws elsewhere when you have problems where you live, and yet do nothing of them. If it takes an overmajority to change things, start a movement. Not a rebellion, that would not be smart at all. Just do something instead of complaining about it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you make the mistake of claiming i'm doing nothing about it, however a rebellion IS a movement and is no less smart than any other method'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'and honestly, I do give a shit. Otherwise I wouldn't be advocating the apocalypse of whatever religion is right to occur right now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the differences between a rebellion and movement are very blurry'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and also depend on who is describing it'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'yes, a rebellion IS a movement, but there are other types of movements. Be more creative.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'be more creative says the i-don't-care-just-don't-make-a-difference-guy'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'just because I bring up rebellion, with a negative emphasis to the folly of it, does not mean it is the only path. THINK. What generally happens to failed rebellions. And you could be more creative than trying to discredit me with "insults"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your point of view on the subject is littered with inconsistencies that would make a politician proud, but you are indifferent'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i'll save my breath :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts waves happily.
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'does my point of view really have that much of an impact on you?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I'm not seeking any apprentices. However much you try to flatter me.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does it change my point of view? no, am i disappointed that you hold it and can't be made to understand? yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'apparently it does change your point of view, because it is the only "arguement" you are using "against" me.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my point of view hasn't changed'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't use anything against you because your view is based upon a false premise'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you can't see the premise is false, there's no way of changing your mind'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'a debate is formed on points of conflict discussed in an intelligent manner, not what someones personal beliefs seem to be.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that depends on whether it is a matter of ideology or not, which this isn't'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'and yet you are still discussing it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only because i was opening my mail :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'have fun, i gotta go work'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'protip: Debate isn't formed on personal disagreements.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'THOSE are simply called, personal disagreements.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'protip 2: Personal attacks are not debates either.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'woot, 3 trivia spellup potions in the same daily blessing :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'mischan :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd disagree actually, debate is often formed on personal disagreements'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i disagree with you tigernuts'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you're welcome'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'no you are.'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"arguing" is different to "debating"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"debate" almost sounds like "debacle"'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would you like to go off on today, zade?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'how about the tsa'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well apparently i'm not allowed an opinion on the TSA because i'm not murican'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh. well. at least one american felt they needed to be killed this weekend and shot at them in california'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'perhaps bring back the Archie Bumker vernacular into polite conversation'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so i saw'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'don't know what that is, Zade, perhaps you can enlighten us both'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is the Urban dictionary uptodate .. what's a "jig" (noun) '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a bit of hardware for holding something in place to work on?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Peter Sellers used "jig" as a verb in one of his songs'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'jig is also a dance'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Archie Bunker used "jig" to refer to a group '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"jigaloo" perhaps'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"gigalo" perhaps'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what group?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"gigolo", "jigaloo", "jiggers", "jig", "miners", "dancers", diseased with mites" - the ordinary dictionary is inadequate with slang '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what's the relevance to issues of the day, or is it just one of those strange asides you're want to do?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the relevance is that the Archie Bunker vernacular provided a shortform (few syllables) of describing ethnic (and cultural) groups'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some examples?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"charlie" "chinks" "fags" "japs" "jigs" "spics" "wogs" "wops" '
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and a lot more, to those that watch "All in the Family" tvshow reruns'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Archie Bunker even uses the N-word'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'cultural shorthand'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"jap" used to be a common word in the 1960s -- then some douchebag running a room on irc decided that "jap" was offensive'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'there were a lot of jap jokes mid last century  ("jewish american princess" jokes)'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in the USA, some commentator was fired for using the word "niggardly" on the air (hopefully the commentator successfully sued that air-station for millions for wrongful termination)'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'did that lawsuit finish yet?'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Adam Kokesh's court case should happen soon'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'was years ago, likely'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'lawsuits take years'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SuEZq7WGSY'
T3/r7/2013-11-02.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'boggle, didn't know any of this was going on'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'who was the first animal that ate another? who was the 1st prick? who screwed up our nice cute genes forever?'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if there would have been no such bastard then aardwolf would be aardbunny and we would just hug eachother to death'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'or something'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'nsa? obama? healthcare? anyone?'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Define animal?'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts pats .... Hwuaijijal on his head.
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so another shooting, and again the left wing media tries to report it as an AR15 rifle when it was infact a shotgun and a pistol, and not only do they claim it was an AR15, they interview an eye witness who says it is a pump shotgun and in the same interview at the end, the reporter again ignores the eyewitness and goes with the meme that it was an AR15'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'AR15 must be more deadly.'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rhuli: 'Will comet ISON affect the earth, or just be something cool to see in the sky later this month?'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'something cool to see in the sky'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hrm, looks like we could be in for a significant stock market crash soon'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'you saw some youtube clip?'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eh? no'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a famous billionair says it'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'at least, not about that'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'like any other complex system there are lots of things going on, but one thing they know for sure is that certain asset prices are being heavily inflated by quantitative easing and low interest rates, those assets include stocks and property'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'while household inflation is rampant, there is deflation going on in the bond market and bank balance sheets'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in lay-person's terms, we're the ones that will get screwed'
T3/r7/2013-11-03.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shock!'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Noooh, not debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'YES debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mner mner'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what should we make of this headline: "Obama admin repeatedly modified grandfathering rules to benefit big business, not individuals"'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you know a political party is in trouble when the only governor likely to win is Chris Christie'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stores in the UK are trialling camera-based advertising systems that attempt to classify you by demographic and gender and tailor advertising at you'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'trials in France remotely access store loyalty cards to target advertising wirelessly'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Professor Knut got an award from Nature magazine for standing up for evidence based science against politicians'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That new hypersonic stealth jet by Lockheed is pretty damn cool....the SR-72'
T3/r7/2013-11-04.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Anywhere in the world in an hour.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'the name is interesting :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Exiled To Aphelion: 'probably based largely on the SR-71.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is estimated that there are 19 billion barrels of recoverable oil in the tar sands of Utah.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'It is believed that there are 800 billion barrels of recoverable oil in the Green River formation in Wyoming.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'then why haven't they been recovered'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it can be recovered, but the price of oil would need to be around $160 a barrel with current technology, so it is cheaper to go after shale oil right now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Overall, the United States is sitting on approximately 1.442 trillion barrels of recoverable oil.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari whistles appreciatively.
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Add Canada to the total, and it goes up another 1 trillion barrels.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'supply and demand, so they're building demand so that overhead can be covered.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, demand is going up elsewhere, but in the US, we are becoming much more efficient in our oil use.....oil use has been dropping even though the population has been increasing.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'avg mpg has been increasing each year.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'interesting'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'free markets work.....even co2 emissions in the US are dropping because of better technology.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'China passed the US as the #1 emitter of co2 a couple years ago.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hard to be otherwise, the population there is extreme.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Based on current consumption, According to the Institute of Energy Research, the United States has a 169 year supply of oil.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'we will have to boost our usage, can't leave any for the next generation'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, but India has a massive population also, but its co2 emissions are much lower...but are increasing fast.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'According to the Institute of Energy Research, the United States has an 88 year supply of natural gas.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They must not have counted the gas coming from the politicians in congress in that figure.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'except all our power plants are converting to NG, so we might be burning that faster then estimated'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'According to the Institute of Energy Research, the United States has a 465 year supply of coal.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nod, but those are based on current recoverable natgas reserves.....There is even more in the form of methane hydrates just off the coasts.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if you count the methane hydrates, that figure increases to around 600 years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We live on an amazing planet, nature has many methods of storing solar energy, and excess bio matter.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'heard of graphene?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'we should find a way to efficiently turn waste crops into fuel.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Right now it makes more sense to turn waste crops into ethanol, instead of using food crops like corn or sugar.  Use the corn or sugar cane stalks instead.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'they haven't found out how yet'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'A viable method for cellulosic ethanol is the holy grail for ethanol production....turn simple wood waste into alcohol.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'they know how, it is an efficeicy game.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pellet stoves are good though....turn wood waste into pellets and burn them to product power mixed with coal in coal power plants'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You can use up to 6% wood in coal power plants without it affecting efficiency.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but we are already using wood at an alarming rate.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'wood is renewable.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and wood waste is plentiful.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'there is a powerplant here in the northeast that burns cocoa hulls leftover from a lindt plant.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'there are many forms of wood waste, from sawdust to cocoa hulls, or corn stalks, etc.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the waste is plentiful, the tree grows back slowly'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, RD is working on fast growing trees....there is a hybrid poplar tree that can grow 12 feet a year. :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'burning also still produces CO2'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'hybrid trees kill off original trees'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no they dont.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'switchgrass has potential.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have hybrid poplars growing on my property for firewood.....love them.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 5 years they are 60 feet tall.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'original wheat hard to find, cross pollination causes problems in reproduction'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'poorly managed hybrids can kill out native species though.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari nods.
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the squirrels love the poplars'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'wheat is a good example, bees another'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'bamboo is another good tree to have...but man it can spread fast....so you need to keep cutting it back.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ever heard of graphene'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'have graphene in my mechanical pencil. :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'my mother says her friend bought a chainsaw to deal with it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that is graphite'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'similar'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'was joking :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but slightly different in structure'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the joke was close to the truth'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'graphene comes from graphite'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'looks like the Chinese will be the first country to have a thorium based nuclear power plant.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it is being explored as a means to extract solar energy'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'thorium fission?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'China has enough thorium reserves to produce all its power for 20,000 years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'interesting.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Norway's Thor Energy began a four-year test with Japan's Toshiba-Westinghouse to see whether they could use thorium at Norway's conventional Halden reactor in Oslo.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'graphene is said to be the strongest material known to man.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'did it work?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have a graphene bullet proof vest.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'what are you? a millionaire?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the vest fits on a barbie.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari grins evilly.
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it is the only stable 2D matrix known to man so far.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a football field of it would probably weigh under a gram.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it is the best conductor of electricity at room temperature and is stronger than diamond'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'just how rare?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it isn't rare, just that there isn't a cheap way to make flawless sheets in high quantity'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'ah'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'just expensive. '
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'scientists in the uk discovered it via tape.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'that it is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'same thing with silicon for solar panels.....if we had a cheap process to make the silicon, solar panels would drop to $1 per watt.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the silicon cells for the solar panels that is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the tech is going.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'but is silicon a great electricity conductor?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'graphene produces even more electrons under sunlight.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'due to the matrix of the material.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in the lab, the researchers have managed to get silicon solar cells to 44% efficiency....or about 3x higher than current commercial efficiency.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and the nature of carbon atoms'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I would love to buy solar panels for $1 a watt though with a 14% efficiency......I would plaster my house with them, and put another few thousand watts in the back yard.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I can see it now.....producing 95% of my power needs with solar power, instead of the current 68%.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'graphene has what researchers call ballistic movement.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'and it's electrons act as though without mass. enabling them to go at one hundreth the speed of light.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, they need to go at least 2/100th of the speed of light!'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'to do what?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'impress you?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'to be financially viable!'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'how is it financially viable if so?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'could the graphene be used to build a space elevator ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it is what they are planning it for!!'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'Goin up?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'besides phones that roll up, batteries that charge in minutes, and cheap solar panels'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'I elevate myself into space every day'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari goes, "Hmmmm."
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'why would I want a phone that rolls up?  They are already getting too damn small.....I would rather have a phone that I can wifi connect to the closest big screen and use as a touchscreen.....'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'there is an app for that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that way you can walk around town, and when you receive a call, the window of the store shows your video call, or the wall of a theatre while you are waiting in line, etc.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'Look it's a simple solution... Chickity China, the Chinese chicken... You eat a drumstick, and your leg starts kickin.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'imagine a phone the size of a book you can fold to the surface area of a matchbox'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'full digital screens everywhere.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'Period.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'the thing would require the weight of an elephant balanced on a pin to puncture the one atom thick material.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'a full heads up display that turns night into day for driving is what I want on a $25,000 car.....shouldnt have to spend $100k to get it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'can it be recycled?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's carbon, what do you think?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'if its that indestructible then it might be a pain to get rid of :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'pure carbon'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'so i cant smoke it, its already been smoked...'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'why would you want to smoke it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'a face full of CO2 perhaps?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'graphene is stronger than diamond.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'is it stronger than 1 million rubber bands ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it releases plenty of electrons due to it's hexagonal single layer arrangement.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'allowing for there to be an extra electron above and below the matrix'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'boo, you can't buy a new Tesla Roadster anymore...:(  Only that sedan now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, with the supercharger you can charge up the model s battery packto 50% in 30min......150 miles of use...not bad.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'ever heard of supertransistors?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'Ever heard of Superman?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'go build an electric car with them.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'so you have heard of it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'at least the model s exists, and for $75,000 you can buy one.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'minus a $8000 federal rebate.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Jopari sighs.
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'never mind.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps boeing could learn something from Tesla about water cooling batteries.....then perhaps the dreamliner wouldnt have been grounded.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'yikes, the tesla s with the options I would want costs $92,000......think I will stick with my $6000 dodge ram 1500.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'cheap scate.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'thanks!'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'it's cheapskate'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'so.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'never mind'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'heh'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'arguing would be pointless'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'woo, illegal marijuana is going to make a comeback in Colorado.....the state wants to put a 25% sales tax on marijuana sales....instead of the normal state sales tax.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'How can you put a tax on an illegal sale?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'pot is not illegal at the state level in Colorado....'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'medical marijuana and recreational use'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Washington State also.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Ok, but you said "illegal marijuana..."'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'no, I said it would make a comeback if they put the 25% sales tax on it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'illegal sales would make a comeback that is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'oic'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'right now you can walk into any number of marijuana stores and buy what you need with an id and a doctors note......and pay the regular sales tax.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'add a 25% extra tax...and black market selling could come back and start the problem all over again.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If they wanted more tax revenue, it would be easier to get rid of the need for a doctors note.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, the doctors note is a big boon to doctors....there are some doctors who write a marijuana prescription every 5min.....at $100 each.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Another reason to get rid of it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and it allows the state to keep track of who is buying the marijuana.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The state doesn't need to know.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'direct sales is the issue'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the voters of colorado disagree...they approved it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'next time read the fine print of those things before you vote for em :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Voters are stupid, no news there :D'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I guess most people prefer a pot tax to an overall sales tax increase.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Amsterdam banned marijuana sales to non citizens :('
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'After they did it, tourist travel to the city dropped by 8%'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, high taxes allow black market growers to make big profits, costing govt more money to enforce stupid laws.....'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'sheesh, billy gates has $71 billion now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hah, a $300k ferarri was run over by a delivery truck.....another one bites the dust...good riddance.'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'there was this slideshow about the abandoned luxury cars in dubai or whatever. very sad. but inspiring'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yay! Obama job approval down to 39%'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, man forced by police to go to two different medical centers until one agreed to aid the police in performing 8 anal probesm without a warrant, because the man failed to make a complete stop at a stop sign'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK boy, 8, shoots and kills brother, 3'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'knife-wielding man in Norway hijacks a bus, kills 3'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i see NY is about to vote a bum in as mayor, that'll work! (though he can't be worse than the encumbant)'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'How'd the Tea Party do tonight?'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'need better scones'
T3/r7/2013-11-05.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'wow...fancy'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, in 1940 when the first person started receiving monthly social security checks, the check was for $22.54 per month....in todays dollars it would be about $1260 per month on average.......Social Security is out of whack and needs to be rebalanced.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'with inflation added, that $22.54 per month would be around $360 per month today.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'And 9 out of 10 retired people regardless of income get a check from social security.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'but you're not being withheld the same amounts you wld have been in 1940'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '9 out of 10 people have paid into social security'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'I wanna hoolldd your cchheeccckk... I wanna hoolldd your check'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the 22.54 was the minimum amount you could get from social security in 1940....even if you only worked for 1 day and never worked again.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it was the minimum and the maximum actually.....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'The life expectancy was also much less.  Why do you think the retirement age is what it is?  Because they only expected to have to pay people for a few years until they died... it wasn't designed to support people for 20+ years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, in 1940 the life expectancy of people from birth was less than 65....but after childhood it was 65 which is what they based it on.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the first person to receive monthly benefit checks from SS lived to be almost 100 years old...:p'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'that has nothing to do with life expectancy.. that's an outlier'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'she earned income of about $260 over her lifetime, and gained about $22,600 in SS benefits over her life.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'widowed?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'its all on the SS website, the first person, first monthly check, etc'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'see, and they thought the baby boomers were gonna be the biggest drain on the system :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and todays SS program is nothing like how it was originally designed and started.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it was originally designed to be a retirement program, nothing more.  If you worked, you received the benefit.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'of course the retirement part of the SS program still accounts for almost 75% of the money paid out by SS per month.  37 million retired workers getting monthly checks totalling $47 billion'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, SS accounts for almost $780 billion of the federal budget per year.  That is about  27%'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'By 2033, the number of older Americans will increase from 45.1 million today to 77.4 million.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'There are currently 2.8 workers for each Social Security beneficiary. By 2033, there will be 2.1 workers for each beneficiary.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'Ermahgerd?! The number of older Americans is going to INCREASE?! I thought it would decrease... isn't that the trend?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'people are living longer....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In 1940, the life expectancy of a 65-year-old was almost 14 years'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'In 1940, the life expectancy of a 65-year-old was almost 14 years, today it is more than 20 years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, in 1937 there were 52,000 SS checks sent out each month totalling $1.3 million....in 1938 it increased to 230,000 checks per month totalling $10.5 million.....big increase in the amount of money being sent out for only a 150,000 increase in checks.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Yes, we must be vigilant against wild increases. Whose idea was this 1.5% increase, anyway? They'll just spend it on a better grade of cat food to eat.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'in 1950 SS hit $1 billion per month in payments for the first time......and 3.5 million checks were sent out each month.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'actually, I think this graph is messed up.....it isnt $1 billion per month...it is $1 billion total per year.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'aw, guess the Astrodome is going to be demolished....there goes the 8th wonder of the man made world.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Astrodome is not a Wonder of the World  (except to uneducated yokels)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'To get fewer old people, just redifine the age you are considered old. The 65 year definition was from a time when that was the average life span.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: '70 is the new 60.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the human body starts to break down faster and heal slower at 65 from physical labour -- so they retire and live longer'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Here is the single most important data point. The SS Trust Fund has steadily, no astoundingly, grown with receipts exceeding expenditures since 1957. It is solvent if people keep their hands off it through the boomer bulge and on after. It pays for itself if not raided. There is no problem, it is all BS hype. http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4a3.html'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'work them past 65 to 70, and they'll die sooner from the unrepaired damage'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'even the extremely rich die before 65 because of bad nutrition and bad habits'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Keep pissing me off talking about taking away the money I paid in and I'll kick it from stress :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Of course, we could spend more of the economic growth on free time, and less on swag, but then maybe the terrorists win.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'we could spend it on educating the yokels'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'well, the problem isnt the money in the SS trust fund....it is the govt bonds in it....That money would still need to be repaid by current taxes to pay people from the trust fund......'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we are essentially paying interest to ourselves......but better to pay ourselves the interest than say china or japan.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Borrowing money to fund a deficit is not good in the long run? Who knew??'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'risks should be diversified'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'here and around the globe'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) U T T E R Nonsense: 'I have a dream, that black risks... and white risks... can live together in harmony!
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'well its could be benifitial'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Elchanan: 'and other countries are doing it'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the SS trust fund earned $102 billion in interest in 2012.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but payments to SS retirees was $67 billion higher than SS revenues for 2012.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'including the interest.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Cant keep spending more SS money per year than the program earns....the trust fund would be gone in 25 years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'if the trust fund was gone though....it would add only $100 billion to the program cost per year....not a catastrophe.....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'which is why when the scare mongers say you wont get a check when you retire....it is bullshit....you will still get a check, it will just cost the program a little more each year from general revenues because the trust fund interest earned would be gone.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'e-h 7'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, oops'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, good thing the Titanoboa went extinct....imagine a boa snake 3x as long as a bus and almost as wide.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like in the governor elections the democrats played good strategy, and the republicans played fucking abysmal "i-want-a-communist-future-that-doesn't-include-this-party" future'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'hmm, the USS Zumwalt left drydock on October 28th, 2013.....the first in a new class of Stealth Destroyers for the Navy....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why do you need a steal destroyer when the regime's self-confessed enemy is it's own people?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'stealth*'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'You are our enemy.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we're not your enemey, we're your bitch'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Evil British trying to take over the world.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Capt. James A. Kirk, the executive assistant to the director of surface warfare, will be the commanding officer of the USS Zumwalt.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I guess they couldnt find a James T Kirk....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Much of the ship's superstructure is wrapped in a canopy made of lightweight carbon-fiber composite. The ship is also built on angles so that it is 50 times harder to spot on radar than an ordinary destroyer.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it has the radar signature of a whale.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'to what nation are you referring? If you are referring to the United States, what state are you referring to? '
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'What other nation would create a stealth destroyer ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'russia and china immediately come to mind'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'I assume you mean the United States because you mentioned Republicans. The United Kingdom is another option. '
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The Zumwalt will be equipped with a new missile-launching system capable of firing 80 missiles, including Tomahawk cruise missiles and Sea Sparrow surface-to-air missiles.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Russia cant even afford to build migs, let alone a new stealth destroyer.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'okay so based on the ordinance list, I now know that you're talking about the US. So I'm not clear on what your concern is? '
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in answer to your question, Cresestux, as far as I understand it, the tp candidate in virginia narrowly lost, despite huge democrat funding for the libertarian party candidate that undercut him for 7%, and despite the GOP cutting him loose and not supporting him at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i guess that's what you call "the establishment closing ranks" even if it meant sacrificing their own'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'nods....saw that this morning'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Insane Xantcha: 'the "USS" before the ship name might've been a clue, too....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and the chinese are building an aircraft carrier....a small one.....so lets see if it can float first...before expecting them to build a stealth destroyer :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'okay fine. But I'm still unclear what exactly it is your arguing? what is your contention/concern?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it's going to get even nastier for 2014'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK announced 1700 job losses in ship building today, after all, serfs don't need a navy and besides, they realise future threats will be nuclear, cyber, or asymmetric - what need of a navy?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'you can always print one later?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Are the UK going to nuke the Falklands ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Australia is going to have a big Navy eventually....perhaps they could buy some of the british navy ships.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'especially after discovering $25 to 40 trillion in new shale oil down under.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shale oil is pointless'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'shale oil is sexy.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'so, I take it that I'm not going to get clarification on your position, or precisely what it is your discussing? Is the question whether or not there is a need to have a Navy? Is it the overall cost of the Navy? Is the purpose of the Navy to defend against foreign or domestic threats? '
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it isn't sexy, it's a waste of money, even BP's chief has come out and said so, wishing he'd not got involved in it'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'he was just reading and discussing an article'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'don't recall a point or position being made....just declarations based on the article'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my personal opinion? UK needs a navy for defence, doesn't need to be very big, a replacement for trident would be good'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We dont want BP in on it anyways....shale oil is for companies with risk taking balls to create new tech to find the oil.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'does USA need a navy? probably, given all the people it's regime has pissed off over the last few decades'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mind you, USA will be ripe for revolution in a few years, too, further complicating matters'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'too much coastline for the USA not to have a navy'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK could fracture into 3 parts over the next decade'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Republic of Texas !'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'Revolution is fairly unrealistic given the military might at the government's disposal and the option to peacefully pass power from one hand to the next. You may get a vote of no-confidence of sorts and have the Prez step down in favor of another. Succession from the union is unlikely, imo. '
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'We would be one of the richest nations in the world if we did.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas has over 60% of the nations oil and gas.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'revolution is already happening, just not armed'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'there is always a revolution'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'explain.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'perhaps 'revolution' is too strong a term. 'Polarisation' might be a better phrase'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Revolution is a tv show.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hurrok: 'agreed.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'polarisation will lead to bitterness and conflict'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'revolution, by definition, ends up where it started from'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately that could be a catalyst for things to kick off'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Remember the Alamo!'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i think a few states leaving the union would be good for everyone'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Scotland leaving the UK would be good for the UK'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'it was a slaughter'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas and Alaska could join together......'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for one thing, Scotland leaving the UK would guarantee a non-Labour government for some time'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'nah, Alaska would probably join Canada.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'think it's more likely to be texas, louisiana, kentucky, iowa, idaho, tenessee, possibly utah, arizona'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and oklahoma'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'likely?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'new mexico'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though it could be avoided by rebooting and returning to the original relationship between states and federal government, i.e a much smaller one'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you won't get that with all the latinos flooding the country and voting for welfare'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'arizona wouldnt join Texas....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'they would join with california.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'texas is in danger of going blue by 2020'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Most hispanics are moderate republicans, not democrats.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i wouldn't be surprised if that mad nazi abortion woman makes governor'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: 'good lord'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not your local hispanics that are the issue, it's all the imported ones from california'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'along with all the braindead ones that don't even know what the constitution is, much less why it's good'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we dont import them from california...they stay in california.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you import population from california :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'we import rich people from california.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we'll see :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'my prediction is your next governor will be democrat'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'people who start businesses....Texas is the 2nd fastest growing economy in the US.....we went down a knotch because of lack of healthcare for lower middle class people.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and unless americans wake up, texas will be blue for 2016'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not that it'll matter because state governance will largely be usurped by the feds by then anyway'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'tell the folks what happened a couple years back when the texas state legislator was planning to remove TSA from it's airports'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Almost 25% of texans do not have health insurance, so apparently that knocked Texas out of the #1 spot for fastest growing economy.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'even fewer texans have health insurance now'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'that is based on 2013, it is still 2013.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fewer texans -will- have health insurance now'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Texas has a budget surplus this fiscal 2 years......again.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good, they'll need it to pay out all the law suits that have risen from your dodgy police that have been taking the federal monies'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The people voted to move $2 billion from the growing rainy day fund to a new water development fund to help create new water resources for the next drought.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they should have done that here after the 1976 drought, but instead did nothing, as a result we still regularly have hosepipe bans and rising water prices, compulsory metering'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'we live on a temperate, wet island, ffs'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'new oil and gas revenue added almost $3 billion to the rainy day fund in the last 2 years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'make hay while the sun shines, riz, that bubble will pop'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it only has to last another 40 years, piece of cake.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the people at the top are giving it 10, tops'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gas longer'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'what is going to replace it?  solar satellites orbiting the moon ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no idea'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing, probably'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'then it will be at least 40 years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not an either or'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can't make something last 40 years that is only viable for 10'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the US has a 168 year supply of oil if we didnt import any oil.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the UK is only viable for 10 years, since you guys import all your gas from Russia....:p'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be owned by the chinese'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Russia is going to turn off the gas, and send it to Japan instead.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'one more big earthquake in the right place and there won't be a japan'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and yet Japan has been there for thousands of years just fine.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and will be for thousands more at least.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yep, but they didn't have a large nuclear plant in meltdown thousands of years ago'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'it wasnt that large, it was 1 reactor out of 4'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'more of an immediate world concern is Saudi Arabia's plants to get nukes'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the pollution potential is 16x that of Chernobyl'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not worried about it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not much point being worried about it, what can you do?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be fine or you'll get cancer'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'more radiation was released by the two bombs dropped in japan in WW2 than that reactor meltdown.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'entirely different types of radiation, but yes, so far the majority of the pollution is waterbound'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so just avoid pacific seafood'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'the pacific is huge, and there is more natural radioactive particles in the oceans of the world than anything that meltdown will release.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'again, different types of radioactive particles'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what will be a major issue is if the reactor blows up sending alpha emitters into the air, then you're in trouble'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'oh sure, just like the billions of barrels of oil that seeps into the ocean each year from undersea seeps, it is different types of oil :p suuuure....:)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are three different types of radiation, alpha beta and gamma. Different radioactive particles have different half-lives, and decay with different amounts of energy'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'all that oil seeping into the oceans helps feed the ocean life.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Creestux: '?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps Godzilla will be created from the radiation in Japan.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'there goes the movie rights.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so coffee is radioactive, with a long half life, but isn't energetic so isn't much of an issue. The radioactive caesium and iodine rleased by fukishima is 100yr half life beta emitters moderately dangerous. Uranium, such as from a dirty bomb or from depleted uranium casing is highly energetic with a very very long halflife and is pretty toxic to life'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as Iraqi's and army vets are finding to their cost'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'depleted uranium makes very good tank shells.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, and they were banned for best part of 60 years because of their toxicity to all involved'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Saudi's with nukes, what will Israel do about that?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'perhaps the UK will find the mother of all shale oil deposits under buckingham palace.....'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what would russia do with that? it'd be the mother of all hypocrisy if they allow Saudi to breech non proliferation with all the bullshit being put on surrounding Iran'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meantime, UK population expected to hit 70m by 2020, we're fast becoming a population of serfs'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i would hope UK serves as a warning to the USA against going down the route of corporate fascism and socialism, but most Americans are pretty dumb'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Then take back your govt, and create a pro small business govt.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as long as they're being offered trendy shiney things, they'll buy anything'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's already been captured by the EU/globalist corporate monsters'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'That is what happens when you dilute the bloodlines......people get dumber.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no taking it back, people will have to suffer in order for the penny to drop'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'but then again, you could say a pure bloodline is also a method to madness.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll be dead, i won't have to deal with this shit'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and my philosophy was "you did this, you made your bed, you fucking lay in it"'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I have my ranch, so I am happy.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you have your ranch until it is taken by the chinese'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'cattle, donkeys, goats, rabbits, chickens, deer, and etc.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'They can buy it from me for $10 million.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it'll be zoned as no human habitation by the UN Agenda 21 commission. You'll get pittance, if you get anything at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'you need to stop subscribing to those conspiracy magazines... :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't afford magazines, i have to make do with listening to the BBC'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and because it's the BBC, I believe everything they say'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'of course, who doesn't ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'faux news.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like it when they have self-contradicting stories on different days'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'though their coverage of world news is hilarious'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'I prefer al jezeera news.....very good reporting.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rt is pretty good for world news, albeit through a lense'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'coming in 2014, the Al Jazeera news network on tv.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well it can't be any worse than MSNBC'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'not much can be worse than msnbc.'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is true'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Marxist Socialist News By Communists'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they even have the communist strapline "Lean forward"'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thermonuclear war might be the least worst option for the future of humanity'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thermonucelar war isn't very trendy, we'll rename it "progressive nuclear disarmament"'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because as you know, progressive is trendy and cool'
T3/r7/2013-11-06.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not at all sinister sounding'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'its a mad world.'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'yep'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'this winter is going to be a record breaker...you watch.'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'i kin of hope it is'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'and not just because i got a new 4x4 truck'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'record breaking for what, one thinks'
T3/r7/2013-11-07.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'any opinions on Seatac changing minimum wage to $15'
T3/r7/2013-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what on earth is Seatac?'
T3/r7/2013-11-08.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is a really good 101 on money supply, debt, and inflation: http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/episode-520-max-keiser-318/'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'RIM will be a case study in the relative effects of monopoly market and free market innovation.Extra credit: Why did Microsoft stay out of it? Discuss.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they didn't.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Abelinc wins'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Scientists had struggled to find the trigger for so-called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) that has wiped out an estimated 10 million beehives, worth $2 billion, over the past six years.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'The researchers collected pollen from hives on the east coast, including cranberry and watermelon crops, and fed it to healthy bees. Those bees had a serious decline in their ability to resist a parasite that causes Colony Collapse Disorder. The pollen they were fed had an average of nine different pesticides and fungicides, though one sample of pollen contained a deadly brew of 21 different chemicals. Further, the researchers discovered that bees that ate pollen with fungicides were three times more likely to be infected by the parasite.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'In other research (funded by the polluters) bee death is associated with the death of dinosaurs'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'Bee populations are so low in the US that it now takes 60% of the countrys surviving colonies just to pollinate one California crop, almonds. And thats not just a west coast problem California supplies 80% of the worlds almonds, a market worth $4 billion.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Arnica: 'Use your mind. Bees are dying. Bats are dying. Trees are dying, Right here, right now. It is not someday, it is now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Rizgoth: 'and filipinos are dying from that super typhoon.'
T3/r7/2013-11-09.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Arnica bows his head
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'extreme weather events just aren't what they used to be'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, the Egyptian rulers aren't at all fond of the US regime right now'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'we threw a lot of support behind morsi'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '- h5'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Fravardin: 'unlucky'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in hindsight was a stupid idea'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(supporting morsi)'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'worst part with that typo is everyone sees it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not to worry'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what do you think of the policy of court marshalling enlisted military for donating money to certain churches and political charities?'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'is Hamas a political charity?'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but are mosques and synagogues included in those USa-military-forbidden "certain churches"'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'interesetingly, HSBC and others have been caught passing funds to Hamas even though it is on the prescribed list'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but no, Hamas is not a charity, political or otherwise'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I like hamas with pita bread'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'which group poisoned Yasser Arafat'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Allegedly group 16 in the periodic table.'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'polonium'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '210'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's allegedly in the same way Litvinuenko was murdered using it by people in the Russian establishment'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'allegedly in the same way that JFK murder was embroiled in part of a regime conspiracy'
T3/r7/2013-11-10.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would anyone resist a law requiring GMO ingredients to be labelled as such in food products?'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'Redryn- that has the big downer of the chance of BEING caught, which, in this game, is a big chance. Simply not breaking the rules has no chance of failure and thus consequence.'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'mis'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wreck-It Roninleader: 'nice one...'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'it could have worked in either channel o.o'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) [Outlaw] Drakoth: 'people are happier when not wearing pants!'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'British BBC is peddling NWO agenda again. Today it was wanking over fatbag Chris Christie'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they claimed in a propaganda piece that the only option the republican party have is to push Fatbag Rhino Christie as their presidential candidate for 2016 or face obliteration '
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, i came up with an alternative to ACA that would be constitution-compatible'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Private insurance?'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mark dice does it again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_-6RlheSQkM'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, nonsense (heh, no nonsense!)'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Time seemingly stops as I Sense Nonsense conjures Alot of Tigernutss. 
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as it goes, i would have kept the exchanges, kept the bronze/silver/gold thing and kept most of the regulations on insurance companies with regards to minimum standards and coverage. What I would have changed is twofold: First, I would have had the government produce their own not-for-profit health plan, along with maintaining a public price list of charges that expect for various procedures. I would subsidise anyone's health plan based on their income. I would tax health insurance at 20% and ringfence all federal money from any taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, and cannabis and put that towards the cost'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there would be no employer mandate'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'tl:dr'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there would be no mandatory element period'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there would also be no need for medicare/medicaid'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'would Chris Christie make a credible president, or will he eat the country further into debt'
T3/r7/2013-11-11.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'the last family guy episode. it got sharp again didn't it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts's shifty eyes dart back and forth.
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in the UK now, police can arrest you in a situation where on the 'balance of probabilities' a person has or might engage in behaviour capable of causing annoyance to another person'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'in the US, the DEA is able to bust down your door and take away your hyroponic tomato plants because all indications suggested you have a weed-growing operation going on.'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and you can sue them?'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'In Sweden, it's cold as shit right now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'how warm are swedish feces?'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: '3K.'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'so then your contention is that it's 3k in sweden right now?'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Hanslanda: 'never poke a swedish fart, you don't know how long it's been there.'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Give or take a Kelvin, yes.'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it's warm in Sweden now. Warm for being 12 days into November.'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'It might be a hindered fart, or in swedish, a "farthinder".'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Sweden is pretty lame'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'are swedish amputees cute?'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'James O'Keefe has been up to his old tricks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUsUWFANPS8&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this time filming some black heroine-addled women hired as obamacare navigators getting people they're advising to lie on their forms in order to defraud the government'
T3/r7/2013-11-12.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'go obamacare!'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'hiiiii'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'well that's actually not an order, emm.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'keep that in mind when it comes to cops'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you know I am a 4th year law student right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'annnnnnnnnd?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'go get arrested.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'get some real world experience.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so I am well aware of my rights and how to invoke them'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'how is that even relevant to what I said?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Umado: 'when the police officer asks for your liscense do you argue that you dont want to because he only asked instead of ordering?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'it can be done, umado. but idk'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'NO'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'at say: a checkpoint.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not in this state anyway'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'checkpoints are constitutional so says SCOTUS (even if they are wrong its the law of the land for now)'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'Emm: if a police officer requests you to do something and you don't, is that technically considered disobeying or something?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'Oh okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and operating a vehicle on a public roadway is sufficient grounds for an officer to request proof of liscense.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'yeah... but can you answer my question?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it depends on if they have the authority to order it, and if it is an order or not.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if a police officer asks you to kiss him, it isn't an order, and can't be one'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'well if they request (aka use 'please').. as in i stated, request, not order'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'well it is an order but it's not legal..'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'so you don't have to obey that'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Wreck-It Roninleader: 'well, technically, you don't need a lisence to drive a car, legally. :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Will you please pull over is a request.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'a 'legal order' I guess?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: '"please pull over" is an order.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'nope. I doubt it. any supporting articles online?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'on the difference between a police request and a police order?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'yeah, even better if you know one that specifically mentions 'please''
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I don't know one off the top of my head, but there is plenty of caselaw on this depending on which jurisdiction you are discussing'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'oh okay. order vs request. i'll search'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'seems like a good to ask if it's an order'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'that kinda keeps things on a polite level'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'if you really don't wanna do what he/she requests anyway.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I can assure you of one thing, unless it is a hot pursiut situation you will never get into legal trouble for asking for clarification of whether something is a request or an order'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'what if I tell them my name, but not my corporate identity? XD'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'generally speaking even when police have the authority to order you to do something they prefer to start by requesting it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it tends be more productive'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'cops can also arrest you if they feel like it. they can decide not to arrest you if they feel like it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'to (cut corners) something like that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'well no a cop cannot (legally anyway) arrest you just because they feel like it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if they do, you can sue under 42 usc 1983'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'not 'just' because but they can choose to do so. they aren't often required to'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'like if you get a traffic violation. they can choose to arrest you, or not. that's what I mean.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'so if you piss them off they'll arrest you and you'll wait a week in jail to get out. :/'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'oh there is certainly an area of discretion, just because they have probable cause (or even a warrant) does not mean they HAVE to arrest you.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'right. practically, they get to choose in some situations.. yeah that's what i mean'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'as long as they don't have probable cause or a warrent that will get them a nice hefty 1983 suit.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'well like say, in texas, they can arrest you for traffic violation.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sure but by definition they have probable cause there'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'oooh. right.. legal definition.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you have almost certainly actually violated the law if you are being given a citation'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'hmm'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and unless it is a specifically non-arrestable offense (like seatbelts in Indiana) they can choose to arrest you for that violation'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'so you can be arrested for anything you can be fined for then.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but they really aren't going to unless there is some reason to.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'ah'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not ANYthing, but most things'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'most non-moving violations are not arrestable offenses in most states I think.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although they can impound your car for having a tail-light out at night unless you have a spare in the car to replace it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'they can also check you for drugs.. can't they?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'etc'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'hence why I keep spares of all my lights except headlights in my car.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'or maybe that's in the area of probable cause, suspicion.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'they cannot arrest you for mere suspicion'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'well, he's not drunk, i think he's drunk, but didn't find any drugs time for a pee test for drugs!'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'I think you're wrong about that for some reason. but perhaps not'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'or even for "reasonable suspicion" which is generally the standard for "Terry" stops (i.e. the infamous stop and frisks and most dui stops)'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'what state? what law? etc'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Terry is a SCOTUS case'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it originated in Ohio though.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'Terry v. Ohio to be exact'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that is the precident for stop and frisk proceedures (in many many many states)'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but almost ALL criminal procedure rules are federal these days'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the states can grant MORE rights to suspects and defendants, but rarely do'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so it generally comes down to what they supreme court (US and to a lesser extent individual State Supereme Courts) decide.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'anyway did you have anything else you wanted to discuss?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'so something like, if you left a drug dealer's house, got pulled over for a tail light'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'or..'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'maybe you smelled of drugs'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'but they looked and didn't find any, so they decided to do a pee test?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'anyway, that's kinda why i think request vs order is important..'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im confused'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'okay what gives them the right to order a pee test'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'or a blood test.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'if you are driving a motor vehicle on a public road and you are suspected of being under the influence they have the authority to give you a breathalizer, and in some instances further tests (such as a blood or urine test).'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'what instances?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'if they 'suspect', right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'when it crosses the line between suspicion (which they can detain but not arrest you for) into probable cause (which they can arrest you for) is a pretty complex issue'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'not a complex issue if they find something tho.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but there is plenty of caselaw on this, start with Terry v Ohio (findlaw is a great free source for cases)'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'that defines the standard for reasonable suspicion and cites to the cases that define probable cause.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'no i mean after the fact'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but don't take any of this as legal advice, I am not a lawyer yet :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it depends on why you were pulled over'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'then we get into the "plain view" doctrine, which includes "plain smell"'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'judge isn't gonna be like, well, they had 0.00 breath, had a tail light, no drugs on them or in the vehicle, but you did a pee test anyway and found some drugs. you didn't have probable cause. case thrownout (or whatever)'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'they're gonna be like, well, they had some drugs in their system. good call, officer!'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'e.g. if you get pulled over for a legitimate reason, and you smell like marijuana, that is probably proable cause for a search, which may include a drug test'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'yeah so basically any reason'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'so they can do a pee test if they think you smell like marijuana :D'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'I'm gonna rub a skunk all over me lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but in most states just testing positive for marijuana is not a crime'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'no but driving a vehicle is'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'can lead to several years in prison'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'you ave to test positive or a level that would impare drivin'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'even if it is a 49cc scooter.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'or? you just said..'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which will be defined by statute.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'impair driving is a legal matter vs a scientific matter.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it is a science matter unless it is codified.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'which is why it is in the statutes in most states'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'it's never a science matter as far as law is concerned.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'there's a law it says over 0.02 impairs driving. that's the final word..'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'for designer drugs it usually is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'hm. okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'since they are usually too new to have a defined legal limit.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'personally I would suggest not operating a vehicle if you have been exposed to THC in the last 24 hours, but that is personal not legal standards.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although I will say that the science shows less imparement from typical doses of THC as compared to typical doses of alcohal I think any imparement is a collossally bad idea.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'including driving while tired.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and as someone who has literally drove for 24 hours straight (aside from gas and bathroom stops), I can attest to how stupid that is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'yeah'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I would also suggest that if you are living in texas (as it sounds like you are) and you like pot, you should consider moving to colarado or Washington state.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'my understanding is texas is about teh worst state to get a marijuana bust in.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'although parts of new mexico are probably worse not because of legal penalties but because of extralegal activities of the police in those counties.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'want to see an article that is just terrifying?'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/traffic_stop_brings_3_enemas_2_x-rays_and_1_colonoscopy_in_cops_fruitless_d/?utm_source=maestro&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly_email'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'oh yeah. I read about that. Yes. that's terrifying. really.'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'happened to another guy before him'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'now I am'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'friend posted that on fb'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'looks like Obamacare could bring the democrats down. this looks like a good opportunity for libertarians/teapartyists'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'unfortunately, the UK is still shit'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and btw, Obama is looking to push a new CISPA/SOPA bill through by secret agreement without going through congress'
T3/r7/2013-11-13.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'prediction: Yellen will INCREASE quantitative easing, not taper it'
T3/r7/2013-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aerocad: '"This channel is flagged as X-Rated. You are very likely to see adult oriented material on this channel." What?! I thought this channel was for news?'
T3/r7/2013-11-14.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'nope. that's the music channel.'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'is homemade napalm, as featured in the movie 'hawk's revenge' on netflix, really that easy to make?'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts peers around himself intently.
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The health gap, that is to say the difference in life expectancy between the richest and poorest in society has increased in the UK since the imposition of socialised healthcare'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no big surprise'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is counter to what most british people would believe'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but likewise you cannot say it wouldn't also have happened, or been worse, had there not been socialised healthcare'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'although a better question would be whether the life expectancy for just those poor has gone up or down'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i found it an interesting statistic, nevertheless'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the life expectancy of everyone has gone up, but that's the same worldwide'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'factor of technology and economics, not individual health policy'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not entirely so'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what other factors do you consider to have had an impact? lifestyle? jobs?'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'healthcare access'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'socialized healthcare should amend the access to healthcare from just emergency healthcare for those without any insurance to also including maintenance healthcare, which should impact life expectancy'
T3/r7/2013-11-15.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'shame socialised healthcare doesn't offer that then :/'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'claims are that the new xbox can see through your clothes like tsa scanners'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are also claims that L.A has had a wireless spymesh installed like Seattle'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the xbox story is a bunked, it can see detect you through walls but it can't see your winkie'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'who on earth thought it was a good idea to have an international agreement whereby corporations could sue governments for having policies that harm their future profits, in a kangaroo court that consisted solely of financiers?'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'if a person dies because of a sickness. cancer, ms, something nasty. would it be incredibly unethical to grab a certain % of his savings(a law or a neat contract when still healthy) and put it into research? I mean, if all the people with cancer would agree to donate some, there will be much quicker results, cheaper drugs too.'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if all the people with cancer agreed to donate some, then you wouldn't be grabbing a certain % of their savings...'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'would it be unethical to ban chemo therapy?'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'people are more than welcome to put charitable donations into their will if they desire to'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'I guess you would promote putting charitable donations for cancer into their will.'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'not really, may encourage more bloated parasites syphoning off huge salaries and bonuses while doing minimal actual research'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Confounded CeriQ: 'Would it be unethical to kill old people once they're no longer producing a net positive for society?'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'I prefer Kilo therapy'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yes, but they think of their healthy but greedy(:p) family first'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'Cut high GI carbs and other nastiness from your diet, and you may reasonably expect to halve cancer rates, then you can fire some researchers, keep your money and lower taxes? :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'there's really no reason to CeriQ..'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'sometimes you can have your ..coconut fat based.. cake and eat it too'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'coconut oil is healthy'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'may be ethical to euthanise "trolls" that suggest (and enact) bad policies '
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'I disagree. troll is just another word for dissenter these days'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'may be ethical to euthanise the overpaid CEOs of large Charities'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'it'd be more profitable to put them in prison'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'a "troll" is not a synonym for "dissenter" '
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'technically, no it isn't. But in practice it more frequently is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tinada: 'true! the synonym for 'dissenter' is 'terrorist''
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'XD XD'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the main reason that the Bill of Rights was required is that the constitution founders and supporters knew that those of Irish Scottish English ancestry (and or of religious affiliation) were extremely corrupt when in authority'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'interesting.'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im pretty sure corruption is independent of race.'
T3/r7/2013-11-16.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as the descendants of the Aborigines in Australia already know from prior experience, never trust a Irish Scottish English trustee (unless you're trusting them to be extremely corrupt)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bit more to it that that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'The technotronic era involves the gradual appearance of a more controlled society. Such a society would be dominated by an elite unrestrained by traditional values. Soon it will be possible to assert almost continuous surveillance over every citizen and maintain up-to-date complete files containing even the most personal information about the citizen. These files will be subject to instantaneous retrieval by the authorities'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'written in 1970'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'hi'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is this channel only for political debate or any type of debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or is that debatable'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'any type'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can debate anything on here, lowain, and if you're lucky, you'll get sensible responses'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i have my favourite topics/topics of expertise, but i can throw out an opinion on just about anything'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'great u must be a know it all'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what is your field of expertise'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know it all'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i was kidding'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'TN is an expert in tin-foil-hatness :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sweet'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ranrr is a justifier of tyranny'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Didn't know that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'are u a practitioner?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'of'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'of tyranny'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'me? no'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Honestly, dunno where TN got that from. '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but u r an imperal baron'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's an affectation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what is an affectation?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am new sorry'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'to both aardwolf and mud in general'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'A show, pretense, or display.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i.e it's just a clan rank'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so u r in a position of power?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'they don't call initiates imperial baron'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'conflating a game and reality won't help you'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'well most game are based on reality'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'usually not in an meaningful way'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'any relevent meaning is usually encapsulated in the story rather than the mechanics of the game itself'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but they are relevant to the structure and organization of peopel'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for example?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'for example emperial baron reflects some one in a position of power, hence a command chain, a ranking of heirachy'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'organization of clans in general reflects this same structure we find in society '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jhav: 'Trying to draw a parallel between the very small and highly biased sample of this MUD's population and society at large doesn't seem like it would be very sound.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'd agree with Jhav'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am not saying it's parallel, i am just saying that organization of people in mud is very similiar or based upon organization of people in real life'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or rather one draws inspiration from the other'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'inspiration will be from history or from the genre in which the clan is taken from'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it doesn't really go any further than that. It doesn't inform real life'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i believe that it's organization and structure as well'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'they are essentially organization of people one in reality, one is virtual'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think the mental exercise will give you any meaningful insight'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'you mean debating?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'debateing this specifically'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'that's where we diff'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'debating as an activity in itself is meaningful'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well if you can give an example of where it informs reality, let's hear it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'even more if it yields meaningful result'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'even more if it yields meaningful result'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oops'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'give an example of where it informs reality, sorry i don't under stand this'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how is that relevant to our discussion, or have i mistaken that for a line of new inquieres'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'because my previous assertion was that games draws inspiration from real life'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Lowain, you need to get to something specific enough for TN to TN to snort contemptuously and make derisive comments about you. That is what he lives for. Feed him.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol, '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'tell him you love Obama, it'll drive him wild'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'actually i don't like obama to a marxist like me he is too democratic'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i mean too republican'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am a pratciging communist'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'who can't spell'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Sic him TN!!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Seltsimees Dagnir: 'very edgy'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'that's what i live for'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think it really warrants a response'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'besides which, there isn't such a thing as a practicing communist'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'ooo u r here'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'here of sorts'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'from my experience, people who claim to sympathetic to communism either don't understand what it is, are actually sympathetic to something else they're just mislabelling communism, or ignorant to what it leads to'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's usually spouted by the same sort of intellectually shallow people who think it'd be a good idea to euthenise everyone under a certain IQ'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sorry i was away'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am a practicing communist meaning that i pratice the economic ideals of communism , within my community there is no idea of ownership everyone has access to everyone's else's property'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u there tn'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'of course there are certain undesirable outcomes regarding communist, but the same applies to capitalist and that's why there are certain policies in check to prevent the undersirable result of capitalism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is t n a troll'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: '?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nope'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sup tigernuts'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i missed you'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot practice the economic ideals of communism without the other aspects'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i checekd out your personal website, tell me tell u it's a great site'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'let me *'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'who are the other aspects?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'that u r refering to'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sharing physical resources at a community level doesn't mean you're practicing communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'if you share material resources in your community as a matter of choice, then that isn't communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'first of all what other aspects are you refering to , and second i didn't say they are equvalent'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'other aspects? everything, law/order, rights, role of government, role of individual'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sharing physical resources is just one of the many things that a praticing communist do, for example being a vegan requires you not eat meat, eggs, seafood wear leather products'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most largely freedom and liberty versus authoritarianism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there's a difference between making a conscious choice to be a vegan and being forced to at gunpoint'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'likewise there is a big difference between making a conscious choice to share your material resources freely with your community and being forced to do it at gunpoint'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i was showing u the i am praticing communism by showing you i am praticing one thing that a communist do'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you're not really'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'just as a vegan is saying that he is pratcing vegan by saying that he is not wearing leather products'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so u r saying that sharing physical property is not one thing that a communist do?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'correct'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you never owned that property to share in communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's difference of nuance'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'a difference of external force'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay what u r saying is this communist are being forced to share their proerties rather than share their properties'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'this is the difference right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'sortof, in the purist sense, there is no concept of personal property in communism so you aren't sharing it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but in a practical sense, yes, you are forced to share the property'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what you describe is more of a benevolent free enterprise, which is possible only libertarianism or anarchy'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so for y ou does corecsion matter or not'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'anarchy and communism is pretty much the same thing at the core'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'coersion is central'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'because u keep on switching between cocersion and the concept of sharing and ownership'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no switching'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what i have said is entirely self consistent'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay please explain to me the connection between sharing and ownership and cocersion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no concept of personal ownership in communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and it is debased in western capitalism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what is based on western capitalism, communism or the concept of ownership?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you cannot choose to practice communism, you are subjected to it or not'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'if neither then what does the it refer to?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'personal ownership of property is the enemy of both western capitalism and communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'as is the concept of personal freedom and liberty'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i don't think coercion is a tenet of communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'coersion is an essential tenet of communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'on what basis do you assert that?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'there is no concept of personal ownership in communism then you said and it is debased in western capitalism. what does it refer to?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'because you have no individual right to reject it's teachings'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'then u said neither'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what does it in it is based in wstern capitalism refer to?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ideal communism is where everyone is enlightened and believes in communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'if it refers to neither ownership or communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i thought i made it clear that the concept of personal ownership of property was an enemy to western capitlism. It seeks to undermine and remove those rights'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'where everyone chooses to follow communist beliefs'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'rendering coercian unnecessary'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'coercion*'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u r still not asnwering the question'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'of course that's practically impossible'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but that's not a tenet of communism, just how every system has implemented it :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no such ideal situation would exist, redryn, it's like simplifying things to point masses'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's what academics do!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'making it clear that personal ownership was an enemy to wester capiism still doesn't explain what the it refers to'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'useful as an intellectual exercise, but extremely limited in application'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'like this debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why what refers to, lowain?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: ''there is no concept of personal ownership in communism then you said and it is debased in western capitalism.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'western capitalism pretends to uphold free enterprise, free markets and property ownership, but it does not, it is a debased system'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is a corrupted system, a hypocritical system, a system pretending to be something it isn't'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol please answer this simple question what does this it refer to'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what does what refer to?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u said these 2 statement, but i don't understand them'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'first u said there is no concept of personal ownership in communism, then u said it is debased in western capitalism.''
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, it is'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i just want to understand what does the it in it is based in wester captialism refer to'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'communism or the concept of ownership'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is weak/no concept of personal property ownership in western capitalism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'concept of ownership'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but he said neither'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i asked him whether it is communism or concept of ownership, he then replied neither'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he said the concept of ownership is debased in western capitalism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i said neitehr because the way you phrased your question, neither were the case'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'let me give u the original statment'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok in any case he has since clarified that is what he meant'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'let me give u the original statment there is no concept of personal ownership in communism' and it is debased in western capitalism''
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there is a difference between 'debased' and 'based''
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oo my bad actually'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you asked: (Debate) Lowain: 'what is based on western capitalism, communism or the concept of ownership?', he said: '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you asked: (Debate) Lowain: 'what is based on western capitalism, communism or the concept of ownership?', he said:  (Debate) Tigernuts: 'neither''
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'yeah that's my bad'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so which one debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which one what?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i which one debased in western capitalism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the personal ownership of property'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay tnx'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'western capitalism, is there more than one kind of capitalism?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts pats 2/3 Flying VampireDude on his head.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there are so many kinds people will argue about what capitalism means'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn not me, i just assume that they've all read das kapitel and understand the implements of land husbandry'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, i wasn't arguing about what capitalism is and isn't'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts let's argue what capitalism is and isn't'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'is capitalism an ideology?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it would appear to be'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'i disagree.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so can u explain the connection between cocersion, and the concept of ownership'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'back to where we were'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts i walked in late i guess, are you guys discussing the 1st,2nd,3rd,and 4th estates?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, vd'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oh. k'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i would assume coercion is necessary to protect your property'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'lowain was claiming to be a practicer of communism, and i said he wasn't because you do not practice communism because that would imply a conscious decision'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you do not decide to participate in communism, that's kinda the point'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'hmmn. k. so lowain is a commie. and you are saying he's not?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts well, a few people back in the 1900s in russia decided to participate in communism, and brought the rest of the nation along for a ride'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he can be a supporter of communist ideas, but you don't 'decide' to practice communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the rest of the nation didn't "'participate' in it so much as were forced'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think stalin decided to!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude whistles that song by gang of four about going for a ride with my friend, and hoping that he doesnt let me down again.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so that's your statement'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'thus the coersion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'unless lowain is the leader of the group.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so stalin made a conscious decision :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts so basically, you're saying that unless you're a leader, you can't be a practicing communist?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not communist vs capitalist, it's authoritarian vs libertarian which is why i said property ownership concept is debased in western capilism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, vd, you can't practice communism period'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts property ownership is encouraged, and taxed'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts what about a group of hippies that decide to share communal properties and resources'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts are they not practicing communism?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not communism, vd'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'that what is that?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'then why do they call it a commune.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because there's only one right definition of communism and TN has it!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay i think the essence of our difference in understanding of communism is whether coercison is essential to communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn he might not like maoism then'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they can call it a commune, it's only practicing communism while you choose to do it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but why do u think it is'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain to perpetuate a communist state , it is a popular practice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'coercion is not  a tenet of communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'why do u think that coecersion is essential to communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't 'practice' capitalism, i'm subjected to it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'find me that point in marx's books :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'so communnism is participated not practised? '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'just like supressing pot use here in the usa requires force as well'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'subjected, sakage'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'you can't expect every single peasant to understand the glory of an ideology and just come marching along. you have to pay them with carrots and prod them with sticks'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'but i dont think communism is forced on to people.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it usually is'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so tiger please explain to us why do u think coercision is essential to communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but it's not defining'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage true, if they didnt want to be commies they could go work in labor camps'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i'm still waiting for him to rebut that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't think it is, it is, it's axiomatic'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'at least the communists gave people choices... unlike hitler's nazis'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you're just making assertions here'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'either back it up with reasoning or support'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'guys can i debate tiger'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'wait in line plese'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain sure. when you feel like picking on someone your own size, i'm up for it too'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'hitler did, he just gave it to the germans with "pure blood"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you must be new to internet debates!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'there's no line'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's just all about calling other people hitler wannabes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay first of all is communism an mathmatical truth?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no concept of personal property ownership in communism and there is no opt-out from it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'a natural truth or a system invented by a man'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage he didn't have pure blood of his own though. its funny all these european neo-nazi politicians finding out they're part jewish'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage maybe they ought to get a blood test before picking an ideology...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'tiger answer the question please'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'ergo, you are subjected to communism, do you not participate'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what the hell?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain it's a natural system that is the eventual progression of capitalism according to marx'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'oops. tiger ... answer'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'my bad, sorry lowain'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol all good'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i've answered it repeatedly, i think lowain is either wanting a different (wrong) answer, or after an answer to a different question'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so tiger is communism an invention of men, or is it scientific or mathmatical truth'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'all of us are family, just depends on which era, and which family member.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol answer the question then please'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage so if i sleep with your mom, we're family?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'communism is an invention of man'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'if that intercourse produced me, than yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay who invented it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is it not karl marx?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage but what if it didnt, and it's just your 'all of us are family' line'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain marx developed it into a well defined , organized system'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'shhhhhhhhhh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am not ready take on a man of your calibar'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or some one my own size'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude *( but i'm bored, ever since my isp started doing dpi with tcp dumping i can't ssl into irc and debate people who have this stuff memorized :(
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'vd has it, marx defined what is understood as communism, though he was pushed and funded by Mr Carnegie and Mr Rockefeller'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'okay, maybe your father's great grandfather was married to a chinese, than her son married a american the list goes on and on and on'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage where you from ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'asia.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'you?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay since communism was invented by marx, then tell me where in marx's work do u find the idea that cocersion is essential to communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'cool. i'd love to visit asia someday for the food, the calendars, the compasses, and the neat music'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'usa'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'what about women?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'back to redryn's qustion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain, in his writings on revolution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'sakage nah, most asian chicks are too short for my taste, they're almost as small as children'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's implicit, lowain'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'vampire dude'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u r next!!!!!!!!!!!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'wait your turn'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts it's not implicit'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain i'm talking to sakage ^_^'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'this converasation is getting of topic, sorry!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sorry i assumed i was popular'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude comforts Lowain.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so it is not explict'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'it is implied'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where in the work does it imply'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it is implicit, you can't have popular shared ownership of the means of production, whether in a party-elite centralist controlled reality implementation of communism, or even in some kind of non-existent idealist interpretation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'communism, deapotism, demorcracy was all created by men, so what?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay is that the statement that implies it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u there t n?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you're making circular arguments TN'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn yep. but lowain wants to tackle it himself'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it is implied  - because it is impossible, therefore it's implied!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is that the statement that implies that coercision is essential to communism?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'hey i am a big boy i don't need help okay?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i expected more from you :('
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i think i can work out the circularity but i am not sure, if i need help i will call for it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't know what to say to you. If you don't understand the difference between free will and coersion, no amount of asking the same question over and over will help'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'saying "you just can't" doesn't make it so...people do it all the time in co-ops and communes...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'co-ops and communes are not enforced'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'well we are making progression, i have been asking different questiosn and getting good results'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'exactly'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'that's the point'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they are free will, and they still manage it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means they are not communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it doesn't mean that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'we have arrived at the point that communism is a man made system, created by marx, and it is implied'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you're trying to assert that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes."'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'you guys don't understand, they are not communism because they're not enforced!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'because communism means it's enforced!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so they cannot be communism!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i think the point here is not to make us see the error of tiger's reasoning, but rather to make the necessary steps to make himself see it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'nah i've realised it's impossible to convince people on the internets'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'just amuse yourself and others'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): 2/3 Flying VampireDude remembers that movie where alanis morisette played god, and that fallen angel was debating the existence of god and the walrus
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oooooo u of little faith, perhaps that's why u r not a paladin'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no fault in my udnerstanding, the fault lies with you'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'my align is -20. I am neutral.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for someone who seems to espouse communism, you don't appear to have read the communist manifesto'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'dogma, vd, pretty good film'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'enlighten me please , where did u find the passage that implies the notion that cocersion is central to communism'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'it is all about philosophy of your 1 self, you think it is right, than it will always be right in your mind.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'are you for real?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'accept him, he is who he is.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes."'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'well u made an assertation, and i doubt it, and unlike scientific truth we have to go to the labs, but for this all u have to do is point to the tex'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what part of that is optional?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so is that the statement?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Abolition of all right of inheritance.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is that the statement?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i thought communism is everybody had equal rights, property is the goverment's.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's accurate provided you replace "equal" with "no"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'everybody has no rights, so everybody has equal rights.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'are we still talking?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well except the government, so no, it's not equal'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's essentially serfdom'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'a new government, for the people, by the people'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i see i am being ignored :('
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'you told us to let you talk to him tho'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i know u have shown the error of my ways'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'lowain your not being ingnored to be ingnored you need to participate in the converaation, and you have not said a word.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay u guys go ahead'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'other than whine about being ingnored.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'are u being serous?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i don't have much else to say about it, i consider your assertion that communism doesn't require coercion ridiculous, it self evidently requires coercion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i made no such statement, i simply question and doubt you statement'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you can keep on thinking you can freely participate in communism, but it'd be an illusion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'prove to me it's an illusion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u can prove it by showing me the marxist text that implies it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'everything has it's own ups and downs.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'tn'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what happens when a group of people get together'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and say communism is teh bestest'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what's tn'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'communist manifestor, section 2 proletarians and communists, demands 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and decide to follow the communist manifesto to the letter'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol u made that up'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is there coercion?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'lowain, what do you think communism is?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i see we have come to this stage'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sensible debate, heated exchange, ignore, then to out right lie'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the communist manifesto written by Marx is a lie?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'no'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts he's a commie, so it must be'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'our exchange'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'TN has made a reasonable argument and it's now your turn to rebutt it lowain'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'tiger, what do you think your demrocracy is like?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i cannot rebutt a question'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'saying he's lying is not a reasonable argument either :('
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'horrid, sakage, an illusion of choice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'communism, demrocracy both made to be good for the people. but now, because power corrupts men, life now sucks.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there is no perfect solution, and every solution will get corrupted over time, US is a very good example as we can measure very cleanly how badly it has been corrupted because the original template was very fully described and constrained'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'less easy in the UK because it has been convoluted over a much longer period'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts do you think our founding fathers were aware of things like the internet, or homosexual marriage?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'your founding fathers were probably not, no'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'our founding fathers didn't even let women vote :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'the founding fathers maybe were, cause romans did it, so maybe thay knew through reading the ruins.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i mean homo mariage'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'they performed homosexual acts, they didn't perform homosexual marriage'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'yup'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The founding fathers probably did too.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'you hate them that much?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sakage:  why would that statement denote anything about hate to you?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not sure what relevence it has, if you have a point, make it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'without my input this chanel has come to a halt'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'nm'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i was simply lagging'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this channel always has fits and starts, just depends if something is brought up when people are here that people want to comment on'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yup lowain, you're the rock upon which the foundation of the debate channel rests'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'tell me, how many times have you heard subliminul messages about homo that were good?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay marriage is a good way to kill debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'in any given sample of xxx number of people, there are likely to be yyy number which perform homosexual acts'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger why, do gay people debate poorly?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i'm not gay, are you?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's merely truth, nothing hateful about it at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's just a non-issue, tbh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'maybe, maybe not'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tiger is it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'so you belive the founding fathers were gay?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yup, vd'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'some countries refuse to recognize gay marriages performed in the us'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Some of them, sure.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'so, clearly it's an issue'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I made no such assertion, but bi is different than gay, and there is statistical likelihood that some of them practiced it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'whether those countries are right, or the u.s. is right, who knows'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'imho, it's not for a regime to recognise marriage'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'gay or otherwise'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what do you guys think is the best way to solve global crises like climate change?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as well as kings of England, emperors of China, and any other'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'tigernuts so... governments shouldnt recognize any marriage, is your view? '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'they were bi-sexual.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn move to alaska.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'move to a more-stable planet :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Science, redryn.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oo snap vampire in action'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'alaska isn't a solution, science isn't a point where we can migrate planets yet'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes, vd, that is my view'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'have sex less, less humans, less polution.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn alaska is big. it could hold all the people in china, and more'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol 13 billion, it must get crowded'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'china can barely hold all the people in china...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'does alaska have means to provide enough food for the entire world's population?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Hold is one thing, feed and employ is another.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'yup, all of them can only have 1 kid in china'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the regime propaganda machine + celebrity need to make not having more than 2 kids trendy'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn it would if the place globally warmed up. yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'add to that allowing the third world to develop would help'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'protectionist policies in small countries will help'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'soooo overnight we'll build the infrastructure to provide food across alaska?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it wouldn't if those people were also living there...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'vd do u agree with tn view?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn :) nice fallacy. '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'why'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'a particular parcel of land can either provide shelter or can provide sustenance...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'need more land to provide both'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or we can pray to alya and get our daily blessing from her'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'anyway i just googled land size of alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'and'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'Alaska: Total663,268 sq mi (1,717,854 km2)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: '(and some small islands)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'China: Area  - Total9,706,961 km2[e] (3rd/4th) 3,747,879 sq mi'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you realise most of alaska is unhabitable or unproductive'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'sooo'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'china is about twice as large as alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn yep, you're right :) i confused alaska and the yukon :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what is the usable land mass of alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'is your new argument move to yukon?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'wtf is yukon actually  i never heard of it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain we're not worried about usable land mass :) we're worried about usable land mass after 'global warming''
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oo sorry i wasn't here most of the time'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'redryn it's a big canadian place next to alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'yukon is smaller than 500k sq km'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what's your estimation on rising water level?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so it's worse than alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'like 1/3rd size of alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'because that will shrink alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok so i think we've established VD doesn't have a good solution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'doesn't have a good solution to what, redryn?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how about noah's arc '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'climate change'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he proposed moving to alaska'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't need a solution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and/or yukon'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how about we all bunch of noah's arc'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'actually I think we've established that VD has an average US citizen's understanding of geography ;-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'why so TN'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you just need a vaguely sustainable and (real) pollution free population'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'lowain nah. noah left his son behind to drown'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is it because climate change is a hoax'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'how do you plan to achieve that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'or would you argue we can achieve that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'noah's arc was built to house two of every species lowain.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'because they have no faith'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'just as some of you here have no faith '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'some of us aren't christian.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'mao will save us'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'faith is not exclusive to christians'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'population reduction, change in habits, change in energy production. Best thing to do is the opposite of what is going on, they're trying to solve it by forcing everyone to live under the rule of a global elite whereas in truth it would be better to split into smaller groups and try to be sustainable within those groups'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'anyways back to noah's arc'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'we believe in diffrent things.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'how would you avoid the free rider problem with smaller groups?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u exterminate them'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'If you are going to quote the bible, at least get facts right. It's not two of every species.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'that's not going to be very effective then'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'no tolerance ss policies'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i don't quote the bible.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i would think global action is needed some how'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you will never achieve perfection, redryn, you can only have pragmatic solutions'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i disagree, global collaboration is needed, not global action'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i use what limited knowledge of noah's arc i got.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think that far is clear'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'most world governments do acknowledge by now that there is a problem'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'however they try and get other people to do something about it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'some are not acting, look at indoneasia.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'just a shame they're trying to solve the wrong problem in the wrong way'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay do u guys know the ricky gervais show?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if you view each country as one of those 'smaller groups' you're pushing for'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'is that the show with jon stewart as the host?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'do u guys know karl pilkington'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yes!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'or do you envisage something smaller'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, obsessing over carbon emissions rather than obsessing over sustainability and pollution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'carl pilkington?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'depends, redryn'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol funny show'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'so you believe that world leaders are just stupid?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'tn u know carl pilkington?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not stupid, misguided'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i believe that the world leaders use the wrong intel.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe the world leaders are a combination of stupid, evil, greedy, powerless, corrupt, owned'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'know of him, lowain'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'if we look at current efforts at carbon emissions'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what's to stop pollution and sustainability facing the same issues'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'of no one wanting to do it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'but everyone wanting someone else to do it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'fiancial incentives?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The only real solution is to find a sustainable way to generate energy. World leaders cannot do that, only scientists can.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'they can fund.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'And engineers.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'scientists can't even share with one another'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yup. So, what government should do is fund science and then stfu.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'who/which to fund?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'or anyone who says he's a scientist'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'the most promising one.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's really the only debatable question, abe.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'most promising according to whom?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'global warming.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'global warming has an opinion? :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'lots of crackpots claiming to be on the brink of the next cold fusion in a bottle'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what's teh current debate now?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'now thats news'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'All scientists are crackpots. Some of them are right, though.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'to cain'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and no gnus, is good gnus, with gary gnu'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'well all these arguments are based on the assumption of global consensus'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'however the current system of governance is paralysed'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what are we talking about, some one fill me in please'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'use debate -h'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'all you need is a G.U.T'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'tnx'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'all u need is the noah's arc'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'free riding is a very real problem'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i told u guys'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sorry, i mean general unified theory'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u all think that global warming is something that can be stopped'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'who pays/funds stuff? if it's a global fund then everyone will want in on saying who gets the money'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'that's non sense'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'it is inevitable it is the wraith of god'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'which god?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'The most funding for science is done by corporations, not governments.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the pissed off one'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'the one and only'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think it must be apollo'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'he must be pissed people stopped worshipping him'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'you know how many gods we have forgotton.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'well corporation funding is determined by economics right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'and the government has a fairly big hand in that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'what with tax subsidies and crap'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where is tiger'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm here'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how is your name allowed'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i once created an account called manureface'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'and an admin messaged me to chagne my name'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'try lionuts'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'or just mannuts'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sakage shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'because shitface is different than a crazy tiger...now if you left off the first "e", you could claim that it's man ur face'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can tell you how much oceans have risen here'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'm not sure how relevent or useful criticising my name is'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'it is not, it is just for fun.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am not criticising it i am envious of your name'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'yeah let's get back to the sea level'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I see sakage and just think of some guy's balls showing'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hasn't risen here at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sakage sighs.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where u live'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'UK'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where u live in uk'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eastern england'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where eastern england'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's near enough :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'really, lowain?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol k'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i was gonna go to his city and shout tiger nuts on the streets'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"exist" might be a better description'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'off swimming, back later'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'cya later aligator'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'cya tiger.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay regarding global warming i think first step towards the solution whould be understanding the cause of global warming'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'any one ?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'cars, factories, and the such.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try "the climate"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i thought u went ot swim'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'tiger phone water-proof.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oo cool'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or are u swimming in your tub'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sheerness is 22cm higher than in 1920, north shields is 22cm higher ;-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'hello?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i don't follow, tiger.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i think he might be implying it's a natural phenonmena'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'abelinc, what does that mean?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'nod, the world has done this many times before'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'the flucuation in temperature and sea level is all part of a greater wheather cycle'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sakage: it means that he was incorrect in his assertion that the levels haven't risen where he is'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'ok, carry on.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'carry on with what? with my line of inqueries or my guess at what tiger meant'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or were u talking to abelinc the whole time'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'with the debate.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i talk to all willing to talk.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so i read some article that described a study done by some geologist'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'and?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'these geologist assert that wheather and temperature fluctuation is a natural phoenemena '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'for example the ice age is an extreme example of such'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'the earth go from cold to hot'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'and we are currently in the going to hot stage part of the fluctuation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'like some geologist says the sahara was once and ocean or somwthing.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes, it's well-documented that it has happened repeatedly...the only question is how much of the current trend is natural vs sped up by us'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'my memory of the report is quite hazy it's best to take this as an introduction to the ideas and not actual descritpion of them'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'my memory of the report is quite hazy it's best to take this as an introduction to the ideas and not actual descritpion of them'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i read a scientific paper that linked the behaviour of temperature after 1950 specifically to the prevalence of CFC's in the atmosphere'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'CFC'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'CFC?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the 'concensus' that exists is a social concensus, not a scientific one'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the action being taken is not scientific in nature, nor intended to be so. The whole climate change thing, regardless of your views, is being leveraged by some greedy people in power in order to centralise power and wealth for their own ends'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'right right abelinc, but tiger nuts might be stating that he belives it is not sped up'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and that's about the end of it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'okay, quit the high lvl words, give me something normal can you'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i'll take it up if you're still here when i get back'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i was simply trying to geuss what tiger meant by his statement " climate"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'tiger? get back at when?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'hello? is anyone there?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sup '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'so.......what heck were we talking about?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'well abelinc thinks that our global warming is sped up, and he has studiees to back them up, while tiger on the other hand doen'st believe it is sped up and belive that those studies are fabricated by greedy cooperation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'that's the current situation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i believe it is a bit of both'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'the phonenmena that the wheather is getting hotter and the sea level is raising is something that they both agree upon'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but wheather it is sped up is the question'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'whether it's sped up isn't really important'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so u think it's both'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'yup.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i know but ti's interesting to know'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the fact is that temperatures are increasing'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'plus it has a psychological effect'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u know the feeling of responsibility'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'the fact that we caused it give an extra incentive to act, not saying that the current incentive is not already big enough'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'responsibility'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'responsibility?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'we are responsible for the rising temperature vs the fact that it is part of nature'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'if ya ask me, we being responsible for it rising, is nature.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'do u not think so?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'in a greater sense yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'lowain? is it only you and me in this debate?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'in the sense that it is a result of the interaction between our human nature and mother nature'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i think they pop in and out'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'human nature is mother nature.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'mother nature i mean physical nature'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'anyways it's time for solution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'phisical nature?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'just non physical in general'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'in mean no human sorry'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i mean human nature and non human nature'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'you know, my father once told me the earth was just a dummy bag for aliens, shooting asteroids ands atuff just to see what would happen.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'chould be true u never know'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'yeah.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'do u think he is nuts?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'now what is the solution?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'now what are the solutions?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'well i belive that it's a combination of human effort and scientific invention'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i say that it is too late.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'why?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'earth is falling apart, nkthing we can do.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'just a matter of time.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'its no where near too late.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'earth isn't falling apart'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'people will die'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'millions of years before the earth has any problem'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'people will never stop dying tell me something i dont know.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'well first of all u have to think about whether climate change is sudden, or is it slow and predictable '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'hmmmm'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'all signs point to slow'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'seems like it doen'st hit like an earthquake, it takes years to produce effects, but is the onset of effects rapid or is it slow'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'one cant be slow an the other fast in this case'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'it might take years to reach a cirtical point, but will the effect take place fast or slow like it's build up'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'red: whether it's [significantly] sped up is quite important...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'how fast do you predict?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'right,what do u think about the onset of affects?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if our technological revolution didn't speed up or bring about the climate change, then we're not as important as we think, but it also means that we wouldn't be as important in altering the course...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'do u think the effects will take place rapidly or slowly?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'slowly'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay so let's assume slowly'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and if we would not be effectual in altering the course, then our efforts should be toward adapting ourself to the impending change rather than trying to avoid it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'don't know, leave it to the scientist'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'if it's slowly that means people have ample time to relocate'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'it won't be like an earthquake'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'sakage is right'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'relocate only works if there's somewhere to relocate to...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'do you think the different types of radio signals in the air take affect on it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'how do you adapt to all the radiation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'or am i wrong.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'live in radiation-blocking enclosures'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'it be impossible for it to be like an earthquake'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay next is the magnitude'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'the sun's heat.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'fuku is gonna be what kills us'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'build houses out of lead'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is it gonna change our earth to a desert?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'while the climate itself wouldn't be onset like an earthquake, another question though is whether it brings about things like earthquakes, hurricanes, typhoons that we're seeing...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Edicius: 'ahhh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'not if indoneasia kill us asians first'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i don't think I have seen anything linking earthquakes to climate change...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'if the magnitude is not great, then perhaps we can either relocate or change our farming pratices'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'we can't even imagine what brings about tornadoes, most of it is guesses.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'and the plethora of other "natural disasters" that have happened the last 10 years?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'eventhough it's slow, is it slow enough to accomdate scientific progress?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'maybe, but lowain, we then need to predict where the disasters are going to hit.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: '?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'didn't we assume it's a slow accumulative process?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or are u talking about the tornados caused by global warming'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'we did, but when it does hit, don't you think it will be a big disaster.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'if it's a accumulative process then we are getting hit in small doses all the time'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'small doses still cause damage'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, it's only a small dose when you're not the one hit ;-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay waht are u talking about are u talking about change in temperature and sea level rising?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'the small doses we are talking about are natural disasters are the size of a town, if you taking global scale.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'those 2 changes in themselves don't hurt anything except real estate prices'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'yeah in themselves'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'except taken to extreme situations it can cause our extinction'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'can we talk about aftermath, we are looking for a way to survive, right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so it seems that the likely result of globam warming whould be destruction of our coastal cities, changing of our farming praticeis, and relocation of population'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'so the ait would be unbreathable, radiation and the stuff, how do we survive?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sorry, *air'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am not sure about radiation and stuff'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'are we talking about global warming?  what is the discussion with radiation?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we have the technology today to handle radiation and air purification'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'ask some one else about radiation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'ozon layer.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i don't think radiation whould be the main issue'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'remember that the space stations don't have an ozone layer'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'we have an ozone layer, and by banning things like cfc's we can keep it, global warming won't remove the ozone layer.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'nor tornados'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'meh.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'cfc just traps more heat'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'malkar: a question is whether removal of the ozone layer is the cause for global warming...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'so CFCs make it cheaper to heat our homes, we are doing ourselves a big favour.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'too hot and you fry.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'too cold and you freeze.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'perf'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we are such fragile creatures ;-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sorry.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'we are a fragile species'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You smirk at his saying.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'how have we survived so long?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i copied u'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ok, I don't think ozone depletion causes global warming I think its C02'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we haven't survived long'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'that is my god gave us brains.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'uh huh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'that is why god gave us brains.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'what did I miss'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sorry, keep giving typos.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ontuct: 'you missed global warming'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'to bring self destruction upon our selves'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Evolution created brains, not god.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'true, but brains gave ua gods.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'god created evolution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'hmm interesting what evidence do you hae'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'true, but brains gave us gods.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Yes, just as all made up creatures come from the human brain.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u missed politics (communism) homosexuality environment (global warming) and now religion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'I think god gave us conciousness but evolution gave us brains'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sakage: you can safely ignore most typos, or just correct the word by using *newword, or by using +letters :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'thanks abe.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so what's the current topic'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'religion or global warming'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'both.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'i think its religion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'how about the religion of global warming?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'religional warming'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'that's a religion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so the effects of global warmings are considered, and the cause is also considered, now onto the solution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'the warming up of religion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'create a new ozone layer'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'we still have an ozone layer.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'solution? there is a solution?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'not for long'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'attempted'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the solution depends on the cause...if we caused it, we try to stop it...if it's cyclical/natural, we try to live with it :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'how are ozones even made?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'move to mars?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'right now, mars could sustain about a dozen people :P'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Moonpies (
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'as always the best solution is to ignore the whole thing. like my dirty oven. i ignored it for 3 days and today it was clean again:)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'magic'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol did u buy a new one'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'floormates:)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'was it elves?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'lucky you.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, and now we're back to the "try to get other people to solve it" solution'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ozone is produced by free oxygen combining with diatomic oxygen molecules.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'lightning'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'oh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'however the root causes are generally NOx and VOCs'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'right so create more ozone '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: '?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'isn't ozone about radiation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'ozone can't prevent global warming'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what are the main contribution to nx and vocs'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'get everybody to gym's. make them work out good. attach dynamos to those machines. problem solved, people look healthier too'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'radiation is where the heat comes from...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'isn't ozone about UV'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'it can stall it'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'ozone is a greenhouse gas.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'no it isnt'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'it is?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'ozone traps the radiation'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'helps'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'holes in the ozone.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'it is a natural occurance that shields us from the suns radiation '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'yup.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'UV radiation and heat are different problems btw'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'now it is back to cause and effect.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but it also traps radiation that bounces off the surface of earth'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'one gives you skin cancer'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'the other kills penguins'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Malkar: 'ozone isn't the primary greenhouse gas, people mostly care about ozone because if blocks UV radiation.  The ozone problem has been knocked out of the news becuase of the CFC bans that have slowed the problem, I don't know if we have slightly more or less ozone than before. Wikipedia says the ozone hole in 2012 was the smallest since 2002.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'not the penguins!!!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'actually I would say most people care about ozone because it is unhealthy to breathe and causes visibility issue (i.e. smog).'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'most gases are unhealthy to breathe.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'but it is high up in the atmosphere so who cares'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'the trick is to not breathe it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the ozone layer is high up in the air...ozone exists down low as well, as a result of pollution...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'tropospheric ozone is the single biggest pollution health issue in the world today.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'some people care about it cos it keeps your water clean!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'um okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'ozone up high = good...ozone down below = bad'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Emm nods at you in agreement. 
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'it keeps your water clean?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'I thought that was fluoride!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You run away in terror and horror!
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'oh that makes sense'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'the problem is that we want to solve the problem by maintaining a certain lifestyle'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'clorine'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_purification#Ozone_disinfection'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'ozone kills everything including bacteria and viruses pretty well'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'we think that we can just maintain the way things are without sacrifice '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'wrong'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'everything needs sacrifice.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'wrong'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'not necessarily.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'one of my favorites: http://xkcd.com/903/'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'no matter how small, everything has sacrifice.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'interesting'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'xkcd is so true :p'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'wrong'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'heh, moonpie's got this debate thing down pat now...say "wrong" every minute or so :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'sacrafice is not a requirment it is a choice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'really?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'only said it twice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'whether everything requires sacrifice depends heavily on your definition of sacrifice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'but don't do it so explicitly'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if I do something that I enjoy, it's not sacrifice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'my sacrifice means any loss no matter how small.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what is loss?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'are we doin philosophy now?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'is playing basketball a sacrifice?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'I keep getting disconnected'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'depend on what you call a loss.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'no since everymovement, every thought requires energy, seems that u loose energy everything u do something'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'what do you define as a loss'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'ie if u define loss as tranfering energy from you to the ball'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'wa'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'hard to explain in terms i can say.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'then if that's part of your defintion of loss, then it seems everything we do requires sacrifice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'i thought sakage meant some sort of emotional loss'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'my english is not that good'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sakage is a word from a book.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'right so it requires clarification when you make such a huge statment like that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'so what do you define as a lost lowain?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'in what context?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'any.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'in any context'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am not the one saying Everything requires sacrifice'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'That's called entropy.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'okm'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Moonpies: 'gtg nice debating with you guys'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay if we all stop using cars all factories shut down will that stop global warming?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'cya'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i define a loss as something that is bad for you whether in health, theology or religiously.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'no matter how small.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is that loss = to that defintion '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'then by that definition, your statement that everything requires sacrifice is patently false'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'maybe.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Sakage shrugs helplessly.
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'riding a bicycle to work rather than a car isn't bad for me in health, theology or religion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'no matter hoe small.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it isn't bad for me in any of those things even infinitessimally'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'so u r saying it is bad in small amounts?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'it's bad for time spent!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's good for my health, not bad...I'm pretty sure it's not against any of me theologies or religions'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'oooooooo'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'is time spent under health or relgion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'time wasting is like a religion to me'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's only bad for time spent if you consider it to be time spent badly'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sweat is still considered. losing too much water is bad for your health. waste of time. and very dangerous. and a am a jerk and an aashole. i know.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sweat is still considered. losing too much water is bad for your health. waste of time. and very dangerous. and a i am a jerk and an aashole. i know.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or u can go with an objective defintion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'from the perspective of fastest way to work'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'sweating is good for you, not bad...it's not a waste of time, and it's no more dangerous'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol jerk '
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'sacrifice is a poor word choice for discussing economic issues. It is loaded with semantic connotations.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'right, that's why we got him to define it more precisly'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'true, tell me is sweating a lot good for you.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Redryn: 'i think the right argument is 'there's no such thing as a free lunch''
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'he defined it as loss however small of health or religion'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'umm, that's why they have saunas...'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'let us do this, i am a jerk, all my views are wrong, all your views are wrong, you are who you are. i am who i am.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'plus i think counter argument towards his assertion doen'st require us to look for example that concern his actions'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'since he said "everything"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'everything need not only includes his own actions'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'im going to go take a nap now'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'sleep tight'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how about an atom hitting another atom in a distance galaxy'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or in a parellel universe'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'or are u going to talk about the butterfly effect'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i dont think anyone is listening, lowain'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am talking to u'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'true.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i am too young to know anything anyway.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'lol don't say that'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'at least u are better than those who think they know'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how old r u?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: '12, you?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'woo'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am 25'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'where u live'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'asia'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'which country in asia'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'singapore?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'should i be telling you, stranger danger.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i guess singapore or malaysia'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'correct.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'cause u were saying indonesian problem'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'how did you know?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'ahhh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'u said indonesian problem'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'and there are alot of ppl from singapore'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'i am not from singapore. so you can guess'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'if some one is from china their first cocner won't be indonesian problem'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am not gonna stalk u'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'you never know.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i am from canada'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'land of yukon'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'yukon?'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'yeah yukon'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'cool.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'added you to my friend list.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'okay'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'i add u to my friend list'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'get a room!'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'how do i chat with friends'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'type ft with (whatever)'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'back to debating'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'what's teh command'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'teh? what the hell is that.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's misspelled "the"'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Sakage: 'thanks abe! help friends, you will figure it out.'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'boggle'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'news is pretty quiet today'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you probably ought to watch this, though it won't surprise likeminded hatters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NysNhGUe9B0'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wow, one dead and several missing after flash floods in teh Saudi Arabia capital, Riyadh'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the US intelligence services are preventing the official judicial inquest into the 2nd gulf war from reporting because it thinks communications between Tony Blair and George Bush being published would be a security threat'
T3/r7/2013-11-17.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'hi'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'signs are the democrat party is starting to crack'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGO8CWDOV0w&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'US fair taxation act, aimed at taxing online sales with have the effect of requiring you produce ID every time you buy anything at any physical store anywhere in the USA'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I don't need one to vote, right?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no, requiring an ID to vote would be unconstitutional, according to Barry Soetero'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'ohh'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I was told that voter id was unfair to poor people, because they can't get ids, I guess'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so now we're going to prevent them from shopping?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, if they can't get ids to vote, how can they get ids to buy food?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Razkin, TN is listening to lunatic right talking points again. No suck act is being actually contemplated, that is just buzz for the sycophants'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Noise'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'as long as I can vote without prooving who I am, we're all good'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the alternative is to provide free voting-id for those poor that are unable to afford to pay for the id -- surely the police mug shots with fingerprints are sufficirnt :D'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in all seriousness, I'm all for providing free ids'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but I was told that wouldn't solve the problem, because they wouldn't be able to go get them'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Zade, why not voting cards automatically made when you get SS Card, with address encode so you can vote from anywhere?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'set up voting booths at the police stations'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'The answer is the conservative dont WANT everyone to vote. They would always lose'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'simple'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'meh, I think that's taking it a bit far, that's like me sitting here claiming that Democrats want everyone to vote, whether or not they're citizens'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Yes because if everyone voted, the number of uneducated voters would increase by a lot'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'so any excuse to stop it is a good excusse'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'So Nonsense?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'and uneducated voters = bad for conservatives'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Uneducated have exactly the same right to vote as you'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I agree, and there should be more of an effort to get everyone to vote'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Did I say otherwise?  I was saying that conseravtives don't want them to vote'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'why not have policy that includes them, then they will vote for you''
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Conservatives hate everyone not them, so naturally they have to lie and decieve to get elected'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Uneducated voters are the reason that the democratic system we have today isn't working.  When the system started almost everyone that voted was educated about the candidates because all they had to do all day was read and talk about them.  Today most people almost never educate themselves about the candidates'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I think the states are probably more adverse to making voting more accessable to everyone than either party is'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'understanding this ist difficult, even for uneducated'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Umm.. liberals are the ones that call everyone not liberal a "racist" or some other nonsense... not the other way around'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: '*snort*'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'the problem that I always have with people making blanket statements about one political stance vs. another is that you can usually make the same statements about the opposing party'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Nope, false equivalance'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it's like watching toddlers having an argument, they each accuse the other, but forget that they're guilty of many of the same transgressions'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'I hear, but I know better'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'The party system is a joke... we need to do away with it entirely and have everyone campaign based on their policies... strange concept'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so term limits?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Nice idea, till the person lies about what their policy will be'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'with parties, you can track pretty well'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'That's what impeachment is for'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'The party system turns into a bloods vs crypts bunch of BS.  nobody listens to what the other side has to say based solely on their party representation'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'LOL, impeachment. Never a more political animal than that. Notice libs have never impeached anyone, only cons'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'So... not holding people responsible for their lies is a good thing?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'They even talk about it today, with no charges even viable, just he's black and they cant swallow their gall that he beat them twice'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'E.G. "Everyone can keep their health care plan if they wish"  Meanwhile millions are being kicked off of their plans... that's the biggest lie since watergate.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'in what years did the voters became more and more uneducated: when they permitted the coloreds to vote and sit at the front of the bus, when aspartame was introduced, when digital music mostly eliminated analog music, when disco music became popular, when rap music flooded the music scene, when mp3s became standard music format, when (insert peeve here)'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: '*yawn*'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Thank you for proving my point :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Every single plan that was grandfatered was eligible, just as he said. Problem was, insurers hurried to minimize liability with crap plans AFTER the passage of ACA'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when Ronald Reagan deregulated the S&L protections, and Republicans learned that getting rich was possible from the ruin of hardworking USAmericans'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'You understand grandfathering?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'you listen to too many talking points, obviously'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when Fox news became Faux news'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Immeadiately after inception by Murdock Zade'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'FYI'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'hrm, was trying to figure out everyone that has been impeached, 2 Democrats, 1 Republican (well, it was Nixon, and he resigned before impeachment, but still)'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'my nephew got onto ACA in KY. He never had plan before and for $211/mo got high lvl plan. Somehow Fox never notices these, do they?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and from what I can tell, all of them were deserved'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'sorry, I now I dropped out, and you've moved on a bit, but was checking that out'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'err, know tha tis'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'Nixon was not impeached, and Repubs were gonna do it so he resigned. Clinton was impeached for sex and because repubs hated him, and even the Senate Repubs were ashamed of that'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'right, but my point would be that, at least in Nixon's case, libs were on that boat too, and it was obviously deserved'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Clinton's impeachment was a mess, I won't say undeserved, but it probably should have never gotten to that point'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how old is your nephew?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'He committed actual crimes Razkin, and they never had to impeach, since he saw that even his own party had to admit they were REAL CRIMES and iwould impeach. Clinton had a legal sex encounter with ML and NO crimes at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Bill Clinton was a great president -- Surplus!'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'before ACA, health insurance for university goers was $90 a month'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'TN, he is 43 with 2 children at home .... covered'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'well, Clinton's impeachment stemmed from him lying about it and from the obstruction of justice'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'subsidised?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Barack Obama is an "Uncle Tom" beholding to the rich white "massers"'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'No, he makes just enough not to be'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there'll be winners and losers'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'or to be more exact, he and his wife earn too much'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the overwhelming majority so far have lost'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only thing i'd say is that it wasn't necessary, could have had a government provided health insurance cheap, even subsidised without the mandatory elements and the fu ckups'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'we pay 100 dollars more a month, but we didn't lose anything, well, escept the 100 dollars a month'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'TN, please check out results in KY. You will see what ACA is meant to be. Will there be losers. Perhaps, though most who lose their 'private' plans will come to be glad'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'man, I can not type today'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i can't help you there, i'm not american, i don't have health insurance, it costs me $500 a month for which i don't get treated, but might get critical care in the event of an accident'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'TN, 'government' is NOT providing HC in ACA. They are setting up true capitalistic exchanges with bidding between many private insurers, driving down the costs'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the ACA will be judged by the proportion of income spent on healthcare, and the profits of the insurance companies'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'who's costs are going down?  I'm paying 100 dollars more a month'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it ain't a good thing to argue on because there is no good answer to healthcare'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'on that we finally agree TN'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'the real cost of medicine is the cost of procedures, which is WAY too high and hard to control. Of course, people will pay whatever to live, so they can price gouge unlimited, and they do'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's both procedures and medicine'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'people get gouged however you run it'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'only difference with socialised healthcare you just get care metered on cost rather than clinical need'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I ended up in the hospital a year ago for a kidney stone, I got a ct scan and some pain meds.  It cost 7000 dollars'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: 'and if a government tried to crack down and set lower prices, the physicians would just move elsewhere. People will alway pay if they can to stay alive'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'now, we have pretty decent insurance, so it didn't cost me overly much, but still, the price of it just floored me'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well you wouldn't have got charged 7000 dollars here, razkin, but it would have taken 18 weeks'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I passed the stone in that amount of time :D'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's the idea'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'trust me, I remember'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Whig: '*ouch*'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but the scan itself was like 4000 dollars'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the whole idea of socialised medicine is that you kick the can down the road until the patient is better or died'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's written into the NHS charter'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'it just seems to me that if you want to make healthcare affordable, there might be other avenues that should be investigate, cost being one of them'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the only way you can do it is set up government provision of the services at low cost and have it compete'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I was reading about, I think it was the netherlands, where women who were getting breast surgery (for mastectomies, not just boob jobs), their follow ups could take as long as three years after the initial procedure'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so if they were in pain, or needed any form of follow up, it could take as long as three years for them to get into the doctor'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'in the U.S., it was two weeks'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yeah, it's the flipside of socialised healthcare'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'and again, it wasn't cosmetic surgery'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i believe you, Razkin, Whig probably won't'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'll admit, I haven't investigated the topic as much as I should have, but it seems to me that socialized health care also suppresses medical innovation'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'most places that have it have approved medicines and procedures, and forgo anything that might be new'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'well, it won't pay for it'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'Here's some information about wait times across multiple countries: http://www.ehcca.com/presentations/qualitycolloquium4/schoen_1_h1.pdf'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'See exhibit 6.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not intentional suppression, it's because new medication is expensive'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'so peopel fighting rare forms of cancer, etc, seem to have harder times getting non-conventional treatment because it isn't on the approved lists'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the trouble with waiting list targets and statistics is that they are manpiluated'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for instance, they manipulate UK figures by not giving you an appointment until the waiting list is below 18 weeks'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so the waiting time is always less than 18 weeks'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I'll have to look over that pdf Craigath. It's not exactly a quick read :D'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'Yes, not particularly.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'not truly related to the topic, but one thing that just caught my eye was that american's are more likely to simply forego treatment'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'now I want to read it, but I think I have to prepare myself before I wade into it'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'The data tends to show that yes, one waits longer in the UK for elective procedures, in fact, even up to the 18 weeks that was previously mentioned. However, it's not a factor of socialized medicine.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's an inevitable result of socialized  medicine'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'this article: http://78.41.128.130/dataoecd/15/52/35028282.pdf shows mean wait times for elective procedures across OECD countries (not the US). One can see that many countries with "socialized" medicine have very little wait times even for elective procedures.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'I suppose, that is, unless your expected wait time for a hip replacement should be zero days, which sounds a bit preposterous to me. But I admit someone could expect such a result.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'bottom line is money and control'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'then i want money'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you don't get either'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'so par for the corse'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't expect wait times to be zero, especially for elective procedures'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I mean, it takes me 2 weeks usually to see my doctor'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'be wary of 'fast' elective procedures where the patients are used as practice human guinea-pigs -- (when safer alternatives are available)'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but you would like elective procedures to be done at all, razkin'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but when I have an emergency, they usually get me in that day, though sometimes I have to see a different doctor'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'but still'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'I don't disagree, but when the safer alternatives have been tried or ruled out, other avenues shouldn't be simply closed'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Razkin: 'Craigath, i will read those, but I'm just not going to do it right now :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'Certainly.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'you also have issues with zipcode lotteries, non-covered conditions, ill-covered conditions, etc etc'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'endless beurocracy, rubbish staff'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'all avoidable in a private insurance health system'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Mt. Craigath: 'Ill-covered conditions and non-covered conditions don't occur in the private health insurance market? Is this what you're saying?'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they do if you can't afford to pay for them'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'but at least it's a chance'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'for a socialised health system to work it needs to be decentralised, not be restrictive in what things it will treat, and not give care metered on cost'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'that's not how it works here, and it's a really tall ask'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i like the idea of a health savings account, like a pension'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'following recent changes proposed to allow women bishops, the Church of England will assert Jesus as being female from March 2014'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'jesus was created by the romans in the fourth century CE'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jesus was created by George Bernard Shaw in 1964'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'based loosely on a maiden Uncle he had'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some of the things i've mentioned about the church may be inaccurate'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i got the information from MSNBC'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'unless there is credible news-link that verifies that "the Church of England will assert Jesus as being female from March 2014", anything stated by Tigernuts on channels is not to be believed'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'it doesn't matter since jesus did not exist.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'so she could be female then.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Emm, with that flawed logic, you are kaput'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'whether or not Jesus existed or not, lies on debate (about the "Church of England") are disreputable'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'true dirt: okay.  lies: not okay.'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(but then, a country afflicted by too many liars gets the socialised healthcare they deserve - the euthanising inadequate kind, since corruption and incompetence abounds amidst liars and lies)'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'so jesus is femail!'
T3/r7/2013-11-18.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'female...'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lowain: 'sup'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p3KlrfjcjV4'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'educate yourself'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'undermax < stdmax < overmax < absomax < ubermax or ultramax  (unsure which is more superior sounding)'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as Humpty-Dumpty said to Alice: "Words mean what i pay them to mean."'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when i solidify, anything with less than +6dr added is junked  (but a +4Wis +4Lck 5dr or +3Lck +2Stat 5dr is permitted to temporarily live)'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'Karl Urban, Michael Ealy, Minka Kelly - thes are starring in "almost human". episode 1. Now, did they change their names for that show? '
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'and Lili Taylor'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'what is the (scifi) premise of "almost human", if any'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'something about moral'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'all the computers make sounds when drawing something'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some may say that "almost human" is almost worth watching -- about morals?! - ych - (tvshows glorifying psychpathic sociopaths are not worth watching)'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the tv-ads to "almost human" were obscure'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'must prescreen dubious tvshows to avoid being nauseated -- maybe wikipedia may indicate what "almost human" is about'
T3/r7/2013-11-19.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'morals, yes. when a person is pissed and that happens to be worthy for a tv-show, it's moral stuff. no art, no philosophy. just that, almost human after 10 minutes: "i have no left leg.. or right whatever, robots sucks, we're better than robots, androids. or something" kill kill kill, bang bang bang. '
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'I heard that we have the technology to build rainbow lasers, but the government is suppressing it because it holds the key to solving quantum encryption.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'The US army wants the ability to send soldiers in to invade private, Afghan homes without a warrant and to detain the people inside w/o probable cause or the right of habeus corpus, and the Afghan President is willing to agree to this for an apology from President Obama, which he refuses to give. What the hell is wrong with these people...'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'willing to agree to this *in exchange for* an apology'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'it's an improvement over the Bush administration'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'There are varying considerations in Obama's decision here. I'm talking about the Afghan president's decision that he would subject his people to a foreign army invading their private homes in exchange for an apology'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'it's absolutely bonkers that his decision would hinge on that'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Vost: 'the Afghan "president" is a puppet'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tasty Tipro: 'well whomever is pulling the strings is evil'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'Who is most evil, the invading force or the afgan president?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh, Martin Luterh King Jr. Way will be monitorred 24hrs a day by surveillance cameras, gunshot detectors, and licenseplate readers in Oakland after a new $10.9m federally funded spy hub'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'USA! USA!'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, Father is arrested for trying to pick kids up from school. Canadian mom fined $10 for not including Ritz crackers in kids' school lunch'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and in Texas, state police are pulling over drivers at random demaning breath, saliva and blood samples'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'police state ftw'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'meanwhile, EU central banks are considering a negative interest rate'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they haven't fully transferred the wealth from the public to the bankers yet'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigernuts is trolling -- Ritz crackers are unhealthy'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'seems that Tigernuts is trolling lies (and inflammatory smears against authority) these days (in pursuant of a previously Tigernuts stated opinion on debate that: "lies dishonesty deception are okay-when following a political agenda" (loosely paraphrased))'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what am i lying about this time, Zade, and where's your proof?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://www.weightymatters.ca/2013/11/parents-fined-for-not-sending-ritz.html'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Tigeenuts, without credible links supporting those outragious inflammatory news-items, what you posted seem like blatant lies designed to cause (unfounded) anger and then indigestion in the audience'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://rt.com/usa/texas-drivers-saliva-blood-breath-990/'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://tinyurl.com/ldlrvh2'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'and a few days ago. Tigernuts, that "Church of England" dubious news=item (of Jesus to be delared a female in 2014), was followed by a belated disclaimer (instead of preceding the ludicrous news-item) '
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'satire, zade'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'try again tomorrow'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'eventually something might stick, or you might trip over something to say'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'if somebosdy is going to post nonsense or what somebody else posted and was nonsense, forewarn the audience with a disclaimer before posting the nonsense  (too late posting the disclaimer after posting the nonsense or satire - the credibility of the nonsense poster is long gone)'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when  first watched "Married with Children",  was outraged by the criminal lack of ethics by the Bundy household -- so  rejected the tvshow -- months later, when a few more episodes were watched,  realised the horrid ethics were part of the sitcom premise, and forewarned with this, was able to watch the tvseries (though the urge to curse those responsible did re-occur, even though the tvshow was obviously fiction_)'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'these days Ed O'neil is a horrid-looking decrepid old man, the Bud Bundy actor is yet stunted in growth, Christina Applegate is no longer that pretty -- maybe there is a karmic justice that strikes actors that portray bad characters (even in a fictional tvsitcom)'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'so what you're saying is you can't tell the difference between satire and reality'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and when you're unsure, rather than asking, you point fingers and call people names'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the boy that cried "wolf" - and then later said "but that was satire."'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's ok, we'll all put training pants on this channel just for you so as you don't get confused'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Wait I'm confused...'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Training pants?  or Training wheels?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'training bras! All around!'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Training Day?  Greeeaaattt movie'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I enjoy training by having sex with whores. Is this bad?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not for the whores, it's their living'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'this one time, in fable, to get the pimp hat, I had my character sleep with everyone in the darkwood bordello even though I only needed ten total to open the demon door.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'er... excuse me, I meant that I had my character sleep with everyone ten times.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I wish that there had been a cane to go with it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i sense a teenager in the midst'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'What, where? Maybe I should stop before I give them bad ideas.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'On to a more serious topic, though slightly less funny, but definately more important. What is with the 'muricans shutting down their government? Is this still going on, and if so, will it cause them to massively riot?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'wait, gotta go, friend of mine just arrived, and we shall have coffee and smokes.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'die soon from cancer you advertising pollutor'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'I would willingly, if I contracted cancer. Wouldn't wish to suffer through all of that pain, misery, and drama. Goodbye.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'good luck, and thanks for the co2 - plants need it'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: '^_^'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'interesting note that the last super-typhoon to hit the Phillipines in 1970 was blamed on global cooling'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tormat: 'they where wrong.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'most accurate thing to say is to blame the typhoon on the weather'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the price of art is rocketing as the super-elite try to find things to spend their huge vats of fast devaluing cash on in order to try and protect it's value'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/20/epic-fail-un-climate-talks-fall-apart-as-132-countries-storm-out/'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'maybe they were unable to to tell the difference between satire, conjecture, science, and the actual facts'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the UN cannot, you're quite right, that's how they get hoodwinked by corporatist propaganda so easily'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'is that the skyrocketing price of old established art or the scam price of the new modern crap art'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'mostly new art'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Bacon, Warhol'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(tech) there is (likely) going to be price-collusion in the Insurance rates charged by allegedly-compeeting insurance-providers - captive market'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'can anyone remember the last time a president outright lied to people?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'each one has since 1963'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: '"if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.  Period."  same with doctors'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as if they didn't lie before '63?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'i will not raise taxes, read my lips'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'how can you tell if the president is lying?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'no, I mean really.  I don't count clinton's sex shit'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'probably, abe'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dispel Majic: 'his lips are moving'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Iraqi WMD'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'he said "no new taxes", not "I will not raise taxes"...'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'tigernuts - that was compromised through negotiations iwth the house dems'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'obama lied about a law that was already passed'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'it's not his only lie, but go on'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'I don't count politicians laying out a position, then compromising, as a lie'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'gtg gnight'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'alright, had my coffee, cigarettes, and guinea piggeh time. Now. What are the 'Muricans thinking, shutting down their government? I'm surprised they would let such a thing happen before just impeaching their president. And that only after riots occured or a scandal was discovered.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'after all, which is more important, a mans status, or the fate of the country?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Juictice: 'aight, back.  nobody knows of another presidential lie that wasn't about irrelevant personal stuff, or just a negotiating position?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'gay people are wrong.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'it's not how you making babies.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Solipse: 'neither is BJs, but I don't want those to stop either'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Senator Starbug laughs at Solipse mercilessly.
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'neither is trolling a MUD, but people do it anyways, even if it does not produce babies.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'Gay people have to rape to make babies.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'They should be denied babies because they're gay.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'actually, I have a point against that, if they were gay, who would they fuck to make babies with anyways?'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'a test tube probably'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'awww, you poor thing, no wonder you have a nasty demeanor, you weren't concieved, you are a test tube baby.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Solipse: 'lol'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'what else can we debate'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'God isn't real, but I'm not about to prove it.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) 2/3 Flying VampireDude: 'maybe the protests at the saudi embassy in d.c.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Blade Lord Kizactrin: 'VD- what are they protesting? I haven't seen the news in ages.'
T3/r7/2013-11-20.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Kanashii: 'nothing apparently'
T3/r7/2013-11-21.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'anyone else fed up with JFK programs yet?'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'JFK called from the afterlife, he wanted to tell the establishment to fuck off and stop disrespecting his memory'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that lie was disrespectful, Tigernuts '
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'disrespectful is making a huge media presentation to cover the fact that the establishment had him killed'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'since when did Tigernuts become a "Catholic", allegedly concerned or feigning concern as to what happened to JFK (while attempting to put foul words into the mouth of JFK -- "icing on the cake" of alleged media disrespect, which Tigernuts seems to be also supplying)'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'catholicism has nothing to do with it'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nothing to say on JFK?'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '1963 was fifty years ago - perhaps somebody is celebrating an aniversary'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'wonder if he'd have been dead by now if he hadn't been shot, his family seem quite long lived other than being shot at by LBJ's hired goons'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Aizma: 'He'd be almost 100'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nogs'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'LBJ was scared - likely was not directly involved'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '96'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'he has 2 remaining living siblings'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'was mob hit, with a lot of cooperation from those in authority (and likely on the mob payroll)'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'there are lots of theories, the only thing that is official is that there was a CIA cover up'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'which means we'll never know for sure, since practically everyone involved is now dead'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(and if they were not on the mob payroll, they were grateful)'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'the most recent conspiracy to be covered up is Iraq war, which the US government have now suppressed the official enquiry in the UK'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts claps half-heartedly, clearly unimpressed.
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'interesting, "the CIA working with the mob" theory'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'those conversations were either:  confessing to a felony, conspiring to commit a felony, or simply an indication of how senile incompetent and uninformed those two were, or contained diatribes and insults against others, or .. (insert conjectures here) .. '
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(maybe all of the above)'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the danger to "security" may be that other world leaders and the peoples of the world shall be given proof that justifies their disrespect the USA and British leaders'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'hence the Egyptian puppet requesting an apology from Barack Obama for crimes against humanity'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'but on the other side of the perspective, the terrorist muslims were a major threat, so what if the USA and British took a few liberties and commited several crimes against humanity '
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '"when the going gets dirty, the dirty get going"'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(comnitted)'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Winston Churchill - there was a war criminal  '
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Britain declared war against Germany because of the Nazi invasion of Poland, -- but at the end of WWII, Britain failed to tell the Soviets to get out of Poland -- and that stage Britain was guilty of starting WWII on a bogus premise.  Britain was effectively stating that the Soviets may invade and keep Poland, but not the Nazis'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'when the nonsoviet allies did not insist that the Soviets retreat back to the old borders of the Soviet union, the reason was that the nonSoviet allies were extremely racist against those countries that the Soviets occupied (since they knew that Stalin was a murderous butcher, and that the communist Soviets were extremely corrupt and incompetent.)'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Harperon: 'How is Loraine any different?'
T3/r7/2013-11-22.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Loraine was last on : Sat Jul 29 06:31:29 2006'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'astronomy is useless'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'ok'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'yeah. you can feed a continent with the money that goes into this.. '
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'but the astronomy has taught us alot about life and where we come from. It also reminds us about how big the world is. Or how small earth is. It's fascinating. No, it's not useless :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'a few telescopes and a sane education system would have handled that nicely. now its ridiculous'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'one must always consider cost vs benefit. Just keep in mind that the benefit isn't = 0.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'its all pretty pictures now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'relatively, it's very near zero'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'astronomy is a leaching science. it only uses the research results of these other branches'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'from a scientific point of view it's huge.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'astronomy is the most important thing that the government does period.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'from a scientific point of view it's not huge'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"scientific point of view" is not benefit...'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'depends on how much you value the results of that particular science.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'we're talking about benefit'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'exactly. the results are "interesting". nothing more'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as you brought up'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: '"knowing stuff" isn't benefit'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'it's difficult to measure the value of knowledge'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'therein lies the difference between theoretical physics and engineering'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the benefit is eventually getting humanity off this planet so we don't all die from one statistical event'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it's not difficult at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'astronomy doesn't really help with getting us off the planet'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'of course it does'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no, it doesn't'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'aeronautics is not astronomy'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'transfer humanity from this planet into Hell -- but no need to wait, this planet is Hell!'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it may provide incentive, but it in no way helps to accomplish it'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'astrophysics is a subset of astronomy'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'without astrophysics we never would have gone into space at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'everything we've needed to know from astrophysics we knew in newton's time'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'what I mean is that the effort we put into astronomy now might or might not pay off later.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'as far as getting us off the planet is concerned'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'me playing the lottery might pay off later too'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'and how will we choose where to send the colony ships without modern astronomy advances?'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'there are many examples of research projects that seemed pointless at some point in history. However, several of them they found important applications later.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'modern astronomy advances haven't helped with that, emm'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'this prison planet is quaranteened (by the vast expanse of outerspace) -- you are not escaping - you mistreat this planet, you die! (if you are lucky), more likely you languish on a horrid dying planet'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'until we can create and control wormholes, "where we go when we get off" isn't all that hard to choose from'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'astronomy isn't all about getting off the planet. It's also about evaluating our models of physics.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'after a few hundred years the whole thing that has been accomplished right now, it could cost 1000 times less'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'or math'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'why do you say that abelinc? The recent spectroscopic methods for determining exosolar planets existence and now even atmospheric compisitions haven't helped?'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'no emm, they haven't helped'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'okay you are just trolling now.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not at all'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'you equate knowledge with actionable knowledge...they're not the same thing'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'as Moriarty said of Nellie Seagoon: "silly twisted fools" '
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'so how do you propose to determine where to send colony ships without using modern astronomy?'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'use non-modern astronomy'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'modern astronomy isn't concerned with where we can send colony ships'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'you cannot send any ships to anywhere.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'it's concerned with where we cannot reach'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I think astronomy is a lot broader than you think abe'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'so you suggest sending a few humans to certain cold death while the billions er millions remaining die a hot death -- interesting'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'not really, emm, I'm not disagreeing on its breadth'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I think that verifying our theories are reasons enough to still observe the world around us.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'merely on its applicability'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'some scientists suggested moving the planet earth to an orbit further out (as the Sun gets bigger and hotter)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I suggest that we should be doing everything we reasonably can to promote extraplanetary and eventually extrasolar colonization'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'I do not suggest that we are ready to begin building and launching colony ships today'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'but in the long run colonization is critical, we need to become a type 1 civilization.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'mhmh. you send 10000000 people to the next green planet. after 10k years they arrive, and everyone will have a brain damage.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'the human race is a failure -- perhaps suggest euthanisation (instead of spreading the disease)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'the human race is the greatest success that we know of ever anywhere'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'Zade, you can begin with yourself to set the example ;)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) HomerSimpson: 'I'll be right after, I... eerrr... "promise" :)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'the human race is the only anything that we know of ever anywhere...'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'we'll all go there eventually. What's the hurry?'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'http://xkcd.com/1074/ :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'dinosaurs thought they were the greatest'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'that be a big space armada, to carry 10,000,000 humans to a potluck planet thousands of years distant -- sounds like sci-fi'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'walking in your footsteps, great tune :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'back to the benefit discussion, we can't possibly know the benefit of our efforts spent on astronomy will yield in the future. It could be close to zero as mentioned, it could also be something completely different. It's not necessarilly about life and death, but perhaps about understanding our models of the world. Enhancing/confirming these models could provide huge benefits.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'quantum physics was laughed at not very long ago'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Emm: 'i know the benefit of this conversation is rapidly approaching zero, at least for me.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): I Sense Nonsense rapidly nods twice at Emm, in complete agreement.
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'I was at a seminar where Murray Gell-mann a few years ago where he explained what he went through when he published his discoveries.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'did you expect something different on this channel, emm?'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'with*'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'Quantum Computer physics seems like a disguised Gods-in-the-Quantum-particlesphysics'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'It's not that the cleanliness of houses of knowledge is a complete necessity.  However it is condusive to the learning process.  Cleanliness is next to godliness is a quote that comes to mind.  The removal of cleanliness technicians from our houses of knowledge would be unarguably a step in the wrong direction.  Our youth must be able to explore the various areas of study under the conditions which are appropriate for such activities.  And this is why I think it is important to save our janitors!!!'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'durrrr you can sound smart talking about anything duuurrrrr'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): You snicker softly.
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): I Sense Nonsense slaps himself, really strange ...
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'took me most of the way through before I stopped saying inside "wtf is he talking about?"'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'hehe'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: ';)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}You debate: 'if you can't convince them with facts, baffle them with bullshit :-)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Exactly'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: 'with some linguistics, that cleanliness nonsense may be worked into something entertainingly amusing (to the jaded) and politically incorrect (to the aghast)'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade finally breaks down when I Sense Nonsense reminds him not to panic.
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Zade , with a towel and book labelled "Don't Panic", demolishes that Nonsense
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) ElFeneri: 'Strange that "panic" reaction hasn't been edited out of species through evolution. Must be a bug.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) I Sense Nonsense: 'Actually I would argue that the Fight reaction is slowly being replaced by the Flight reaction.'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Angel Azaezel: 'Bacon!'
T3/r7/2013-11-23.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Dark Angel Azaezel: 'then we are all in agreement'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is part of school teaching? http://cdn.storyleak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/1424564_226029330905924_1783279572_n.jpg'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ranrr: 'I hope that's a joke.'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'no joke'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'It was Hitler who went after the young kids in school, because if you brainwash the kids, then you get them. If you get the kids, you get the mothers, and so follows the men'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'straight out of the authoritarian scumbag handbook'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'this is also why you need to take central government out of the school process'
T3/r7/2013-11-24.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'hearing reports of police violence at JFK rallies'
T3/r7/2013-11-25.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'is this why black folks should be in elected office? http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/11/24/video-shows-monticello-mayor-cursing-breaking-clock-after-dwi-arrest/'
T3/r7/2013-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what should China's response to US B52 bombers violating it's defence zone?'
T3/r7/2013-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'and why is the pope now calling for worldwide socialism?'
T3/r7/2013-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'they man's clearly a simpleton'
T3/r7/2013-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '(somewhat obvious, given he's the head of the catholic church)'
T3/r7/2013-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'interesting how a man who sits at the head of an organisation reputed to be among the wealthiest in the world, is lecturing everyone else about handing over their hard earned cash to the poor. What a fucking hypocrite'
T3/r7/2013-11-26.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Zade: '(answer) btw, you are all likely making mistakes you did not learn from yet -- seems the samsara of reincarnation permits foolish humans to do the same mistakes over and over again, seems there is not much alternative when there is seeming free-will to be a fooled fool, or maybe there is no free-will, only a predestined hell.'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'anyone up for it?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avieta: ', we are not up'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'I argue that some at'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'are*'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'EPA is looking to regulate private ponds, ditches and lakes'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'not looking, WILL'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'should headphones be worn when playing aardwolf?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'yes'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'why?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why not?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avieta: 'no!'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'theres no use as there's no sound'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what if you're listening to/watching something else at the same time and didn't want to disturb others?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'has nothing to do whit the game'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'then the question is somewhat irrelevent'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'explain?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'I've missed you lukesmart'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'there can be no debating the fact that I am madly in love with you'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'gay?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'I'm not gay'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'whut, i thought you were a girl'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Not Guilty Kojiro: 'oh, you're looking for a wife, not looking to be a wife'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Lukesmart sighs with content as he is lovingly spooned by Not Guilty Kojiro.
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'heh,smartphone uses who install the facebook messenger app are being asked to agree to terms of service that allow Facebook to use the microphone on their device to record audio at any time without their permission'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, gun confiscations have started in NY in violation of the 2nd ammendment'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'just swithc cellular connection to off:)'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'switch'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avieta: 'i aways wnted a gun... '
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'what if you wanted to make a call, Luke?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Avieta: 'wanted*'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in other news, NSA plans to shame web-porn users'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'you dont need cellular connection for phone calls, they are completely different'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'nor do you need a cellular connection for it to record you talking'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: '"The US authorities have studied online sexual activity and suggested exposing porn site visits as a way to discredit people who spread radical views, the Huffington Post news site has reported."'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'no if you have no connection to the web, all activity is shut down no networking can be used, local(who phones international? way too expensive) calls have a single connection to your operator not the web.'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'why would you install a facebook messenger app then not be connected to the web?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'fact is, most people won't read the t&c, and thus will not know that they're doing it, then those of us who point it out will be called conspiracy theorists and slandered'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'my nkia 520 lumia uses data when I'm not on apps due to location services for my maps and apps that require location for local authentication'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, the UK deficit is down to 90bn a year, we're going broke at a slightly slower rate these days'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'so I switch it off to save myself from additional costs'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in better news, Russia arrest up to 50 members of an al-quaeda cell in Moscow. Unlike the USA, Russia actually -does- have terrorsts'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'terrorists in the USA are restricted to the government'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'agreed:)'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'in Australia, Sweeping legal changes which came into effect on September 30 allow courts to suspend or cancel the licence of any person convicted or found guilty of any offence - regardless of whether that offence has anything to do with driving.'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'how fucked up is that?'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Lukesmart: 'yellow'
T3/r7/2013-11-27.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'Jim Marrs is awesome'
T3/r7/2013-11-28.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) .... Hwuaijijal: 'brian griffin is dead. what's next? new baby, dump stewie? oh boy..'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'baffling, gun confiscation going on, economy going down the toilet, wardrums beating in the far east, but as long as Family Guy has a twist, nobody cares'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Ehrsul: 'war is bad mkay!'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods.
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dolt shakes his head.
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts nods.
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Dolt shakes his head.
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts runs Dolt over with a small eastern European nation.
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate): Tigernuts drives up in a small eastern European nation, revving the engine noisily.
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGcdZlCZPAk&feature=player_embedded'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'awesome'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'seriously?'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Jopari: 'he's rather vocal.'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'rofl, guesthouse in the german mountains run by a human cannibal who were also policemen'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'some socialist commentators (namely Professor Jonathan Zimmerman) is calling for consitutional ammendment to allow Barry Soetero to run for a third consecutive term as president'
T3/r7/2013-11-29.txt.gz:{chan ch=debate}(Debate) Tigernuts: 'please wait while i pick myself up off the floor from laughin'